Thursday, December 11, 2008

Where in the World is Donald Keys? A 1989 Mt. Shasta Sighting

I have long been puzzled by the unavailability of Donald Keys, who admittedly would be an elderly man by now as I understand he was a WWII veteran. He was so extremely active with just about everything that was New Age/New World Order and then after 1985, he seemed to suddenly disappear. I had heard rumors that he, like Peter Caddy, had taken up residence on Mt. Shasta. Tonight I did a "googling" and found this picture. I would like Old Man of the Ski's comment on this. Beware of the New Age music when you go to the link! The whole Mt. Shasta thing is weird, even by New Age standards!



Constance Cumbey said...

Evidently, Donald Keys went from "thinking globally, acting locally" to "thinking Galactically, Acting Planetarily." Here's a Danish website which Google will translate for you with what appears to be 2005 vintage material from what "Old Man of the Ski" calls "The Donald."


Anonymous said...

“The Donald” is absolutely right about one thing. There is no neutrality in this war.

Back in the late‘80’s Mr. Planetary Citizen must have become discouraged by the choices he saw being made by the governments of the world, who obviously seek power by any means without differentiating between good and evil. The Shasta area is just one retreat for those who have abandoned this world’s system and seek to explore the “inner plane” and join themselves with the “angelic realm”. That is not to say Mr. Keys knows what is good, or is in touch with only “the good angels”.

Personally, I think Mr. Keys must be dead by now. If not, it’s highly likely he continues to be deceived. And it’s understandable. People with high ideals are prone to seeing Satan (Lucifer) as the most beautiful being God created, a master at hiding his inner rebellious nature by masquerading as an angel of light. Satan (and/or his angels) are not above playing both sides, appearing as benevolent beings anytime it suits them.

As far as Mt. Shasta is concerned, there’s always been a lot of New Age devotees hanging around the area. Recently some Asian mystics came to the mountain and claimed that the Shasta “Stargate” has widened considerably. Not surprising.

God has revealed His plan, and it doesn’t quite have the same outcome as that other “plan”, ie, the Alice Baily/Luciferic scheme. God has allowed us a choice. Choose wisely. The battle belongs to the Lord.

And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” [Lk 10:18]

But as the days of Noah [were], so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [Mat 24:37]

And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man… [Lk 17:26]

… that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. [Gen 6:2]

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore [children] to them. Those [were] the mighty men who [were] of old, men of renown. [Gen 6:4]

So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. {Rev 9:15]

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought… [Rev 12:7]

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. [Rev 19:11]

Anonymous said...

2 states in light of all that is transpiring with the financial fall out will be an easy thing to gather at the table - interesting.


Unknown said...

I found the following info:


"After seeing how many of us came, Committee Chairman Blessing changed his mind and decided not to vote on it today. In fact, he acted like it was a mistake that the paper said “possible vote.” Teri (OFA, JBS, CPO) thinks it’ll probably be voted on at the next committee meeting (which will also probably not include further testimony) so we’ll need to keep watching. The Senate version (SJR 9) was introduced yesterday as well, but last I heard it hasn’t yet been assigned to a committee. Still another thing to keep an eye on."

Blessings to all,

Anonymous said...

When I think of "the Donald," I think of Donald Trump.

Anonymous said...

There is no way an event such as a constitutional convention would take place without knowledge from any legitimate news source. No Way! You can't get me to believe it. It is no where on Google after doing a search. Apparently there is a constitutional convention being discussed regarding the Phillipines, but not this country.

Such an event would be improbable to hide from mainstream media! And there really is a giant that lives in the clouds.

Unknown said...

To Anonymous 1:44

Ohio State legislature's 127 General Assembly (2007-2008) HJR8 calling for national constitutional convention:

Anonymous said...

The strange statements attributed to Keys about the existence of a conflict between quasi-supernatural or supra-natural “beings”, who exist both out there in the universe and right here in other dimensions…. beings who have taken up the cause of one side or the other…has strong scriptural support. (See my earlier post).

The probability of other dimensions and the existence of inter-dimensional sentient beings, has strong supporters in the scientific realm as well. But that's another topic all in itself.

Jesus said, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock [and] one shepherd.” [John 10:16]

Was Jesus only speaking, as some have narrowly interpreted, about those outside of the Jewish fold, the gentile peoples in other lands and nations? Or was He speaking in much wider universal terms that exceed the boundaries of our present understanding?

Scripture is clear- God gave man the ability to choose. Did He not also give the same “right” to the angels?

But here’s the rub…

While Jesus came in the flesh to die on the cross as a sacrificial lamb to redeem mankind, there appears to be no such “second chance” for the angels. The reason for this is that while we (mankind) were born into sin, the angels were created in God’s presence. Unlike mankind, angels are not redeemable when they sin. Therefore demonic entities must persist in the futility of hoping they can somehow turn the tables on God. That explains why the Alice Bailey’s of the world teach that Eve made the right choice. Eve was not deceived in their book, but became at least partially enlightened. The entire NEW AGE movement is based on the hope they can bring about the completion of Eve’s enlightenment. Those that say the New Age is nothing new, are absolutely correct. The New Age is nothing more than open rebellion to God.

The hour is late. Choose this day whom you will serve.

Constance Cumbey said...

Barbara Marx Hubbard, who was a friend and ally of Donald Keys, also says emphatically that Eve made the right choice. Her autobiography, THE HUNGER OF EVE, makes that abundantly clear. Interestingly, she details her relationship with Paul N.Temple and Co. in that book. This is one and the same Paul N. Temple who is part of the "core group" of Doug Coe's Fellowship Foundation / Prayer Breakfast Network / "The Family / "International Foundation / Ivanwald / "The Cedars" etc. Barbara Marx Hubbard proclaimed in Seattle in April 1988, "Now all the groups with outwardly different purposes are merging and blending and coming together to do THE ONE WORK." Barbara Marx Hubbard had chaired a 'unity and reconciliation meeting' between prominent Evangelicals and New Age leaders in Colorado in October, 1987.


Anonymous said...


I posted the above comments before looking very deeply at the website you linked to. I’ve seen so much of this same crap concerning Shasta before, including the 1989 picture of Keys. I’m in the habit of just doing a quick scan whenever I come across these kooky Lemurian related websites. Not only are they a waste of time, I’ve found them to be a burden on my spirit. But this one caught more of my interest for the simple fact that I’ve traveled on the same “grid”, the same “ley lines” that this poor deceived woman has laid out with her crystal planting.

I’ve hiked thousands of miles of wilderness trails, so it’s not really a surprise that I’ve covered some of the same ground as another individual. I’ve been on Mt. Shasta several times. I’ve been to Lakes O’Hara, Louise, and Moraine…Mt. Temple and Paradise Valley, drinking from the same water source where this woman says she "cleansed" her crystals, and where she claims the so-called New Age “Temple of Temples”, or “holy of holies” has been established to provide a multi-dimensional gateway to the gods.

No, these people aren’t crazy or smoking mushrooms…. they really do think they are laying claim to the earth at the direction of some deity or deities. The “work” that such "kooks" are doing, and which Keys not only endorsed but took part in, has a basis in reality.

There’s good reason our Lord God ordained the harshest penalty for those who practice witchcraft. Like you say, the various groups some accepted as "mainstream" some still on the fringe, are coming together, like interconnected nodes on a web, to do the "one work".

We can take comfort in knowing that our God doesn’t need any sort of "grid" laid out for him. We don't have to do anything to pave the way. God did all the work when He reached out to us on Calvary. All we have to do is be faithful.

I think that about covers it.

Anonymous said...

NATO Transforms for Civil-Military Cooperation:

Bobbie Morin said...

You all probably know all about avatar already, so this stuff about it might not be new to you.

I spent a little time looking at new age and Mt Shasta links yesterday and on one of them I ran across the word "avatar" (Wikipedia says it means incarnation and has mystic/Asian roots) and I kept thinking I knew that word from somewhere.

Well, last night I figured out where when I saw the tv listings on Nickelodean network - they have a "children's cartoon" named "Avatar the Last Airbender." I had caught my 7 year old son watching it once not long ago and when I asked him if the show glorifies God his response was "no" and he turned it off and says he hasn't watched it since.

Well, that show does more then just not glorify God, it is covered in what they term "Asian influenced" martial arts (source, Wikipedia). But there are alot of other shows that slip magic or spiritual issues into what are supposed to be children's programs.

What I have found is "children's tv" doesn't equal "innocent tv" as even shows like Bob the Builder (presumably a preschool show) have such things as worm charming and sexual innuendo in them. It's eye opening how many New Age influences are ready to mold our children's thoughts - given the chance.

Anonymous said...

My kids like Spongebob very much, to the point they cry when we change it. One other strange children's show on Nick, Jr. is something called "Yo Gabba Gabba." In fact, it has its own blog.

Dawn said...

Don't get me started on children's tv programs. The strangest so far? Disney has a show called Wizards of Waverly place. One of the kids has a talking little head in the middle of his forehead (it is suppose to be a zit).

Anonymous said...

I've pointed this out before but I'm
going to again. Listen to the
children's programs and notice
how they always get to a point of
screaming. They scream like someone
being tortured or in total agony.
This includes Spongebob and Chowder
and Flapjack and a whole bunch of
others, most of them other than
the very youngest tiny tot shows.
If you don't look at the pictures
but just listen, the awful screaming is
really striking. It's not "good-natured"
at all.
I believe that they're conditioning
children to it. They're de-sensitizing
children to violence ! I don't know why.
But I believe that God will have a special
place for any and all the grown-up
educated people who are deliberately
doing this.
They make me so mad.
And don't even get me started on the

Anonymous said...


Re: The Greek riots
The Wall Street Journal has an excellent op ed on the subject today. It goes to show how new age political correctness and moral relativism are destroying societal order.

You need a subscription to access the article but I am posting it here based on Fair Use principles. I hope this is OK with you, Constance. The following copyrighted document is provided under Fair Use principles. Statement at end!

Greece Is Burning
Lost principles have led to lost control.Article
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When Greece's conservative New Democracy party came to power in March 2004 it promised three things: to "reinvent" the state, to eliminate corruption, and to initiate much-needed educational reform. Four years later, the situation remains unchanged: The state is still a tool for bestowing benefits and favors, corruption in the public sector is still rampant, and attempts at educational reform have fizzled out.

Plundering thugs who are following their own self-interests.
This sets the context for the riots that have engulfed Greece since Sunday. The postcard picture of Greece as the land of sunny beaches and friendly people has been shattered, revealing a country torn by social strife and consumed by hatred and senseless violence.
The ostensible cause for the rioting was the killing -- under circumstances that remain unclear -- of a 15-year-old boy by a policeman last Saturday near the Athens district of Exarchia, a popular hangout for lefties and professed anarchists. Two officers have been arrested and charged with the boy's slaying. Poor training, lack of motivation and low salaries make for a notoriously incompetent police force whose members are prone to cause such tragic incidents. In that sense the police share the malaise of the rest of the public sector in Greece. The only difference is that they carry arms.
The death quickly led to mostly peaceful mass demonstrations all over Greece by students who were understandably unhappy with the killing of their peer. They are also fed up with an overcentralized education system that thrives on rote learning, which stifles innovation and creativity.
But soon the protests turned into ugly riots. Groups of masked anarchists set about an orgy of torching, looting and vandalism in Athens, Thessaloniki and other major cities in Greece.
What was unique about the events in Greece -- as opposed to, say, the riots in the banlieues of Paris a few years ago -- was the total withdrawal of the government and the security forces from the scene of the riots. Civil society was left alone and unarmed to fend off the violent attacks on their property by the hordes of predators. On Tuesday night, one of the worst nights of rioting, more than 400 shops were attacked in Athens: Some were torched, others looted and seriously damaged.
All of this took place while the security forces simply stood by and watched the disaster unfold. They were following the explicit orders of their political masters to assume a "defensive posture" -- which in effect meant that they did not try to prevent the orgy of destruction.
Anyone watching this absurd scene could be excused for concluding that a secret deal had been struck between the government and the rioters: We let you torch and plunder to your heart's content, and you let us continue pretending that we are in charge.
The government justified its passivity by arguing that any attempt to stop the vandalism might have produced human victims. At the same time, in order to pacify the enraged shopkeepers who were seeing their hopes for a profitable holiday shopping season go up in smoke, it promised to use taxpayer money to compensate them for the damages caused by the rioters.
"What we are witnessing is the total abdication of responsibility by the Greek state," says Antonis Papayanidis, the former editor in chief of the conservative daily Eleftheros Tipos. "This happened both in the case of the shooting of the youth by an incompetent policeman as well as in the case of the riots that followed."
The government's passivity amid this dissolution of law and order did not simply reflect bad crisis management or sheer incompetence. At a deeper level the conservative government's failure to respond decisively signified its defeat in the battle of ideas, especially among the young.
In today's Opinion Journal

Obama's Carbon BustersChina's Democratic 'Charter'Wasting Paul Volcker
Declarations: Rectitude Chic
– Peggy NoonanPotomac Watch: Condi On the Record
– Kimberley A. Strassel
Latin American Democrats Need U.S. Support
– José Maria Aznar, Vicente Fox, Andrés Pastrana, Julio Maria Sanguinetti and Francisco FloresCorporate Leadership and the Crisis
– Carly FiorinaGreece Is Burning
– Takis MichasThe abdication of responsibility was in part the result of the New Democracy party's abandonment of the values of classical liberalism, whose cornerstone is the rule of law and the respect of private property. Under the leadership of Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis, the party has over the years purged from its ranks all voices of classical liberalism and has explicitly rejected values-based narratives in favor of an ill-defined pragmatism. This has proved no match for the ideological assault by the left, which ended up monopolizing the marketplace of ideas in the universities and the other educational establishments of the country.
Such was the ideological confusion of the government that on the night of the great destruction the only criticism that Interior Minister Prokopis Pavlopoulos could voice against the plundering thugs was that they were following their own self-interests. Adam Smith would surely turn in his grave!
Even worse was the statement by Panagiotis Stathis, spokesman for the national police, explaining the authorities' inaction: "Violence cannot be fought with violence." With this remark, he effectively equated violence exercised by the authorities to defend the social order with the violence of those trying to destroy it.
"The fall of Rome," wrote Seneca, "took place when Rome's pragmatism ceased to be pragmatic." Unfortunately, the conservatives in Greece do not read Seneca -- or much else for that matter.
Mr. Michas is a journalist with the Greek daily Eleftherotypia and an associate of the Center for Studies in Classical Liberalism in Athens.

Please add your comments to the Opinion Journal forum.
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Anonymous said...

Dear Bobbie,

Avatar: SYLLABICATION: av·a·tar
NOUN: 1. The incarnation of a Hindu deity, especially Vishnu, in human or animal form.

Incarnation: SYLLABICATION: in·car·na·tion
NOUN: 2. Incarnation Christianity The doctrine that the Son of God was conceived in the womb of Mary and that Jesus is true God and true man. 3. A bodily manifestation of a supernatural being.

Would you agree that, except for the "Hindu" modifier Jesus is an avatar according too these definitions?

Peace and blessing,

Anonymous said...


To Paul (10:42),

I agree with you here about the violent children's TV shows. You used the correct word - desensitization. In fact, TV shows are being used to desensitize everyone, both children and adults.

The concept of "Reality Shows" is key here. A few years ago I heard a very profound discussion about this topic from the perspective of prophecy. The speaker explained that the popularity of "reality shows" was all intended to densensitize the viewer, by degrees, to accept real violence against people (as opposed to "special effects" violence). Shows like "Fear Factor" and "I'm a Celebrity, Get me Out of Here" etc are moving along a trajectory where viewers enjoy seeing the participants engaging in disgusting and physically painful activities. According to this speaker, the objective of this process of desensitization through Reality TV was to get TV viewers to accept (and look forward to) seeing real torture and murder on TV as a form of "entertainment."

If you think of the Al Quaeda beheading videos, this is where things are leading, only the events will be initiated by Westerners themselves, and will eventually be promoted on Western network television.

I wish I could dismiss the idea discussed above was far-fetched and purely speculation, but I don't anymore.

Anonymous said...


Glad to have your thoughtful imput on this blog. Welcome aboard!

However, without intending any disrespect, I am becoming more than a little concerned by what appears to be a certain lack of respect for my faith, and that of others here, which borders on the cusp of mockery. While you mention you find it amusing, it is frankly offensive to me. I am also more than a little surprised that Susanna was not taken aback by it. As a Catholic I have always been taught that the Incarnation is a mystery of my faith, and as such I have not tried to dissect its possible flaws to the non-believer’s mind-set.

Since you brought up the following discussion on the Incarnation, I would like to respond to it presently. For those who are not following the Dennis Cuddy thread in which Joyce and Len have been discussing Judaism, Len (addressing Joyce) said the following on that thread:

"Dear Joyce,

I checkecd out the Jerussalem Perspective site and, while I am sure to have problems with it, I found the following discussion of the virgin birth amusing. Thanks forf the refe4rral. I have bookmarked it in my Christianity file.

Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 151
Location: US
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject:

About 5 or 6 years ago, I started to ponder if the Virgin Birth teaching was valid. What troubled me then about the doctrine has firmed my disbelief in it today. It was then that I challenged from a good friend with this question; if Mary was betrothed to Joseph, did G-d commit adultery? Sure, one could say there was no sexual intercourse, but to dispute any legality or moral questions, why didn't the Holy Spirit impregnate Mary before she was betrothed to Joseph? Why did G-d choose to impregnate Mary while see was already promised to her husband.

Please realize, in a Jewish wedding, a man and women are considered married during the betrothal stage and can not break if off unless a 'get' (written divorce decree) is given to the women. Therefore, Mary and Joseph would have been consider married during the time the Holy Spirit visited Mary.

Last edited by boomer on Sat May 17, 2008 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total

Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 373
Location: Amerikan Federal Empire
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject:

I'll go you one further, boomer. Jesus replaces YHVH in the mind of the Church by becoming his own Father in order to impregnate his own earthly mother, who there after becomes a Vestal Virgin. Oedipus Rex, much? Seen from that POV ... the Mythicists are correct about Christianity being little more than the product of religious syncretism."

I’ll ignore the last very disrespectful comment that infers that Jesus has an Oedipus Complex and instead address Boomer’s comment, which Len found amusing.

While Boomer is correct in that a Hebrew betrothal had the same weight as actual marriage but without the intimacy, the reason that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit while betrothed to Joseph, instead of before the betrothal, was shown in Matthew1, where Joseph’s lineage is traced back to Abraham and David. In this genealogy Matthew shows that, although Jesus is not the physical son of Joseph, he is the legal son and therefore a descendant of David not just through Mary, but through Joseph as well.

Matthew also used this chapter to link back to the Old Testament prophecy of Isaiah 7:14.

I just wanted to point that out so that anyone new reading this blog and searching for answers will not be inclined to make an assumption that makes a mockery out of the Virgin Birth.

I also feel that it’s necessary to point out that your comparison of Jesus to a Hindu avatar such as Krishna, was done in rather poor taste, and in the same vein of mockery as the above comment. Hindus believe in reincarnation, and the term incarnation in Sanskrit refers to the many “incarnations” of their deities. For example, Krishna was the eighth avatar, or incarnation , or reincarnation of Vishnu, who many Hindus worship as God.

It is that type of comment that links Christianity to syncretism, similar to the reference made by smadewell above, and is frankly in poor taste on a blog where we Christian folks are very, very sensitive to anti-semitism.

Thanks for your understanding and sensitivity in this matter.

Sister Seraphine

Anonymous said...

Dear Sister,

I am glad that you have spoken up here, as I too, have been more than a little uneasy with some of the dialogue on the other thread between Len and Joyce.

While I appreciate the learned viewpoint of Len, and have always wanted to understand Judaism from an Orthodox viewpoint, I also agree with Leana's statement on the previous thread that certain article's of faith are not necessarily incompatible with each other.

However as used by Len as a "source of amusement" the teacher's actual intentions must be brought into serious consideration.

Constance apparently has already made note of some of Len's sources as she said the following on the Cuddy thread:

"I am somewhat perturbed at the references to PAUL THE MYTHMAKER. One very large characteristic of the New Age Movement's thought leaders is unabashed hatred of St. Paul. I give little or no credibility to much of that book's contents. The book was sold and used at Fuller Seminary."

Since you are a friend of Dorothy's, please know that we welcome you here to this blogspot.

But just as the evangelicals have been called to desist from proselytizing, I would ask that you be aware of the context within which you frame your comments about Jesus, as that is a very sensitive subject to those of us who worship Him as our Lord and Savior.


Anonymous said...


Comments on the state of current TV (and with it, movies):

Expanding on some discussions of the unexpected positive reviews of the movie "Twilight" on a couple of posts, ago--I was watching tonight's local (DC) news and heard an update on the story of a 15-year old who had contracted to have her father killed.

Seems she was filled with not only the usual teenage angst; but demonic infestation, as well.

The reason I say that is that she was an adherent of the Goth lifestyle and was, according to the report, enamored of a vampire lifestyle.

It appears that she was angry with her father for his not approving of someone she was dating. The guy who actually stabbed the father was a member of this girl's Goth group and they (don't know how many were members) had engaged in cutting themselves and drinking each others' blood.

Seems that the daughter decided to "kill two birds with one stone," so to speak. She allegedly told the perpetrator that her father had been molesting her. The police and neighbors say that there was never any evidence of that--quite to the contrary, in that he was a concerned, single father.

He (the attacker) said that that revelation from the girl was the reason he killed the girl's father--not for any vampyric reasons.

Here's the kicker--it seems that the daugher both wanted her father dead, AND wanted to drink his blood!

I literally felt my skin crawl and I actually recoiled from the tv screen when I heard that.

I don't even have the comfort of saying: "what's the world coming to?" because I sadly know, all too well.

At least, the final chapter is triumphant.

I am not the "Joan" of the 6:45 PM post. I usually post as; but have been attaching my real name, here and there.

Since there are apparently now two "Joans," I will only post as from now on.

Anonymous said...

To Sister Seraphine (@ 6:08 PM) and
also to Joan (@ 6:45 PM):

I echo your thoughts and am in total agreement with both of you. Just want to add my support.

Anonymous said...

Sister Seraphine,

In response to your comment.

However, without intending any disrespect, I am becoming more than a little concerned by what appears to be a certain lack of respect for my faith, and that of others here, which borders on the cusp of mockery. While you mention you find it amusing, it is frankly offensive to me. I am also more than a little surprised that Susanna was not taken aback by it. As a Catholic I have always been taught that the Incarnation is a mystery of my faith, and as such I have not tried to dissect its possible flaws to the non-believer’s mind-set.

On what grounds are you claiming to know whether or not I am "taken aback" by anything?

Quite frankly, I have had to skim over most of the Joyce-Len dialogue because I simply haven't had the time to properly "plough through" everything that they have written.

Ergo, I cannot be "taken aback" by what I never read in the first place.

That being said, with regard to the offensive comments you referred to about Mary and Joseph and the absurd notion of "God committing adultery," I would refer you to a book written by the late Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen whose cause for beatification is underway.

The title of the book is THREE TO GET MARRIED, and in this book Archbishop Sheen tells us that marriage doesn't involve two, but three....a man a woman and God. A husband and wife belong first to God before they belong to each other. And if husband and wife belong to each other, they belong to each other in God since temporal earthly marriage is but a "rehearsal" for our eternal heavenly marriage with God in that irresistable and ever deepening vision of inexhaustible love called the Beatific Vision.

As Archbishop Sheen pointed out without God, no maid would ever conceive - even WITH the cooperation of her husband!

There are a couple of stories in the Bible about barren women that will attest to that. Abraham's wife Sarah, for one. When the angel finally told Abraham that he and Sarah would FINALLY have a child (with a little help from God) Sarah burst out laughing....possibly because she was about 90 years old at the time!

This is why they were ordered by the angel to name their child Isaac which means "laughter" since it was God who was to have the last laugh.

Likewise, when the Holy Spirit overshadowed the Blessed Virgin Mary - after obtaining her consent to become the Mother of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ - God did not violate the law. He transcended is His prerogative ("exclusive legal right") as Lord of all creation!

Bobbie Morin said...

Hi Len,
Thanks, I got a good chuckle from your question. I could see how under those narrow parameters one could end up with the conclusion that Jesus is an avatar.

Yes, my Lord Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit. Yes, He does operate in the supernatural by the power of the Holy Spirit. Yes, He is God's son born in a human body. He meets those criteria, but He's so much more. He doesn't just bend the air, He created it.

I don't pretend to understand everything about Him, but I can guarantee you He is no kin to a Hindu god nor avatar.

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." John 1:1-3 NIV

Anonymous said...


I agree with you that God committing adultery is an absurd notion.

It was Len that found it amusing, not myself. I was simply asking him to be sensitive to the fact that some here might not find it amusing to hear Jesus being called a product of adultery, an avatar, or having an Oedipus Complex.

Thank you for recommending Archbishop Sheen's book, Three to Get Married. I appreciate the recommendation and apologize if I offended you.

Sister Seraphine

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 8:13 and Joan,

Thank-you for your support.

God bless,
Sister Seraphine

Anonymous said...

Sister Seraphine,

No offense taken. I knew that it was not you who found the idea of "God committing adultery" amusing.

I hope you enjoy the book by the late Archbishop Sheen.

Anonymous said...

Dear Susanna,

I lifted those comments about Jesus off a Christian web site that Joyce recommended.

The one about the avatar arose from the incarnation definition given by a Christian here.

All of THAT is what I found amusing.

Peace and blessing,

Anonymous said...

Dear Sister Seraphine, Susanna, Bobby, Joan and anyone else I may have offended,

I read some of the other comments after the first I responded to above and I am not plesed that I upset so many. I deeply apologize.

While I originally responded to Bobby I also had Joyce in mind because she is the one who linked me to that Jerusalem Christian site and also because our dialogue has indeed become more pointed and intense on both sides. To me she has continually insulted Judaism and I may have been loosening my inhibitions in response. But that should be no excuse.

BTW, while some dictionaries define "avatar" as a Hindu incarnation, I was aware that others do not restrict it to Hindu.

I enjoyed the comment that three, father mother and God, are required to make a baby, and want to point out that, like so many other similarities between Christianity and Judaism, this is yet another; it haviing been noted in the Talmud..

The principle can be illustrated using "Gematria -- numerology," for which each Hebrew letter represents a number: Alef=1`, Bet=2 and so on.

ADaM in gematria is 45: (alef=1, plus dalet=4, plus mem=40).

A father, AV, is 3: (alef=1 plus vet = 2).

Mother. EM is 41: (alef = 1 plus mem+40).

Together, AV and EM, 3 and 41, are 44; one short of Adam's (humankind's) uniqueness.

To mother and father must be added one; the One of the universe.

Peace and blessing,

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