Sunday, December 14, 2008


The Quartet for Peace in the Middle East is presenting a drafrt resolution allegedly drafted by Russia and the USA. The press release is 12 hours old as of this writing,2:40 a.m. December 14, 2008. Javier Solana repeatedly has said it imperative that the deal be in place by the end of 2008 or it would be more awkward in 2009. This coming as close as it is to the Maitreya press release about the "Christmas miracle," and considering the New Age plans of "World's End: 2009" as set forth in the Peter Lorie book which I would pay scant attention to, had it not been for the fact that it was published by Jeremy Tarcher and Penguin books -- major serious New Age publisher, particularly as to Tarcher.

For the record, Javier Solana has been the only constant figure on the various configurations of "The Quartet" and its predecessor the Mitchell Commission. All the other players have come and gone -- he alone has been there through all of them.

You may find it helpful to review my blogspot articles for August, 2008 (click on archives at right (August 21, 2008). Click on each picture to blow it up individually and notice:

1. Javier Solana's global governance by 2009 "imperative" quote.
2. Peter Lorie book covers.

"There's something happening here -- what it is ain't exactly clear . . . ."

Stay tuned!



Anonymous said...

Wow and I mean wow. I thought the events of the past few months had come rapidly, but the way things have ramped up in the past 48 hours is unbelievable. If I were a betting man, I would say Javier has a US TV interview regarding the impeccable work he has done regarding the peace process, which will come shortly after the holiday.
Although it doesn't take a new age guru to make this type of prediction.
Once again great job Constance.


Anonymous said...

Once again wow, I read this slip over to the FP site and find

Council Conclusions
Strengthening of the European Union's bilateral relations
with its Mediterranean partners

Which includes

In accordance with the political commitment made on 16 June 2008 at the 8th Association
Council meeting between the European Union and Israel, the Council reaffirms its determination to
upgrade the level and intensity of its bilateral relations with Israel within the context of the adoption
of the new instrument which will replace the current Action Plan from April 2009. That building-up
must be based on the shared values of both parties, and particularly on democracy, respect for
human rights, the rule of law and fundamental freedoms, good governance and international
humanitarian law.
The building-up should also be conceived and viewed in the context of the full range of our
common interests and objectives. These include, inter alia, the resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian
conflict through implementation of the solution based on the coexistence of two States, the
promotion of peace, prosperity and stability in the Middle East and the search for joint answers to
challenges which could threaten these goals. With this in mind, the EU will encourage Israel to
contribute to developing economic, financial and cultural relations at regional level. Israel will also
be invited, for its part, to improve the daily life of the Palestinian population in accordance with the
roadmap, facilitate the practical implementation of the association agreements concluded by the EU
with the other countries in the region, in particular the Interim Association Agreement concluded on
17 February 1997 between the European Community and the Palestinian Liberation Organisation,
and continue its active participation in the three-way dialogue started with the EU and the
Palestinian Authority.

and also

The EU will invite Israel, on a case-by-case basis and every time that is in the common interest,
to bring its foreign policy positions in line with those contained in the declarations, démarches
and common positions adopted by the European Union in the context of the CFSP, in
accordance with the arrangements determined by the Union within the framework of the
strengthened Neighbourhood Policy.

Notice this language as it states the EU will invite Israel to bring their foreign policy in line with the ENP. This strikes me as a nice way of saying the EU will be telling Israel how to handle their matters. There is much more to this document that would take way too much space to put in a post. This document confirms at least for me that the EU and Solana feel they are calling the shots here.


björn said...

Constance - just wanted to say thanks for your very nice words and your eyes just everywhere, better we have two eyes than none, so always appreciating your work, hope me beeing able to join more the radio programms during the Christmas break, especially as they plan to make an deep inpact right then...
Special greeting to your husband, hope he is doing fine!

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for all of your hard work. I have learned so much from you. Thanks in part to you and your book I recognized the new age practices creeping into my church (cbf baptist) and got myself and family out of it.

I am wondering about your thoughts on this "maitraya" and J.S.. Do you think they are one and the same or will "maitraya" be a false prophet to point the way to the "savior"?

So much happening so fast and now even my computer is turning against me. I haven't been able to get on Fulfilled Prophecy in days. Ever since I did an extensive search on google to try to find an article on FP about Obama's "day of change". I'm sure it's a coincidence though...


Anonymous said...

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle;
be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray:
and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host,
by the power of God,
cast into hell Satan
and all evil spirits
who wander through the world
seeking the ruin of souls.


Constance Cumbey said...

Wow and thanks!

I just read "Council Conclusions
Strengthening of the European Union's bilateral relations
with its Mediterranean partners" with the tinyurl link furnished me of

Certainly looks like a real Roman (oops EU) empire with tight, tight, and breakable controls on Israel. If we are as Herb and I suspected nearly 2 years into that 70th week period, this is truly revealing.


Anonymous said...

From CNN (12/13/08):

A "suspicious" fire devastated the church attended by Alaska Gov. and former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin on Friday night in her hometown of Wasilla, the church's minister said.

"We have no idea what caused it," the Rev. Larry Kroon of the Wasilla Bible Church said Saturday, adding that investigators were considering arson and other possible causes.

A ladies' craft group was in the building when the fire broke out, but they got out safely, Kroon said.

"No one was hurt," he said.

Central Mat-Su Fire Department Chief James Steele said the department was "treating it as suspicious and as potential arson at this point" but did not elaborate, The Anchorage Daily News reported.

The newspaper said Palin released a statement after the fire in which she said she stopped by the church Saturday morning and offered an apology to the assistant pastor "if the incident is in any way connected to the undeserved negative attention the church has received" since she became a vice presidential candidate.

Anonymous said...

ROME, Dec. 10, 2008 (Reuters) — A team of Franciscan archaeologists digging in the biblical town of Magdala, in what is now Israel, say they have unearthed vials of perfume similar to those that may have been used by the woman said to have washed Jesus' feet.

Anonymous said...

Here are more details from the previous Reuters article:

The perfumed ointments were found intact at the bottom of a mud-filled swimming pool, alongside hair and make-up objects, the director of the dig conducted by the group Studium Biblicum Franciscanum told the religious website.

"If chemical analyses confirm it, these could be perfumes and creams similar to those that Mary Magdalene or the sinner cited in the Gospel used to anoint Christ's feet," Father Stefano de Luca, the lead archaeologist, told the website.

Mary Magdalene is cited in the New Testament as a steadfast disciple of Christ from whom seven demons were cast out. She is often considered the sinner who anointed Jesus' feet.

"The discovery of the ointments in Magdala at any rate is of great importance. Even if Mary Magdalene was not the woman who washed Christ's feet, we have in our hands 'cosmetic products' from Christ's time," De Luca said.

Magdala was the name of an ancient town near the shores of the Sea of Galilee in what is now northern Israel. A Palestinian Arab village stood near the site until the war at Israel's establishment in 1948, and an Israeli town called Migdal now occupies the area.

"It's very likely that the woman who anointed Christ's feet used these ointments, or products that were similar in composition and quality," De Luca said.

Studium Biblicum Franciscanum supports research in biblical studies but focuses on archaeological excavation of sites linked to the New Testament and early Christianity in the Middle East.

Anonymous said...

From (12/11/08):

Exclusive: Twenty Years of Eugenic Abortion at Ontario Catholic Hospital

LONDON, December 5, 2008 ( - The chief ethicist for the diocese of London in Ontario Canada recently admitted to in an interview that St. Joseph's Catholic Hospital in London has been performing "early induction" procedures in cases of diagnosed lethal fetal anomalies for twenty years, under his ethical direction. While Fr. Michael Prieur attempted to justify "early induction" for lethal fetal anomaly as not being abortion, the procedure has been condemned as illicit by the US Bishops' Doctrinal Committee and called "direct abortion" by the National Catholic Bioethics Center (NCBC).

More details on URL below:

Anonymous said...

A portion of that URL was cut off during the copy/paste:

Anonymous said...

Of course, the URL ends in:


Anonymous said...

hand in hand, gland in gland,and as if you've taken a spoonful of miracle..he'll appear as the guarenteed eternal sanctuary man; a supersonic scientist/ can't you see he's fooled you all......better not compromise it wont be easy

Anonymous said...

...rainbows and butterflies appear in the eyes of my mind as Gods truth settles in. promises of beauty and freedom await those who trust in the LORD JESUS
forever in His ocean of being.......look up..for your redemption draws nigh as i play with words

Anonymous said...

...and the justice day is coming , the conqueror is on his way... YAHWEH the KING of kings

Anonymous said...

Hi Constance,

We've been dealing with a family crisis here, and your husband came to my mind, so I wanted to express, along with Farmer, that I hope your husband is doing well with his rehab after this latest surgery, and that God is holding you tight.

God Bless,

Unknown said...

Just a thought...

I would like to throw another name into the mix regarding the “upcoming interview”. Whoever the supposed Maitreya reveals himself to be, I believe that Paul David Hewson, aka Bono of U2 will in some way be a part of the deception. I am NOT saying that he is the Maitreya--just that I believe he will play a key role.
1. He is on the Global Council on Awakening Arts & Entertainment which is a part of the World Commission on Global Spirituality and Consciousness with Barbara Marx Hubbard. (
2. He is highly influential. Interviewed by Bill Hybels and in Rick Warren’s pulpit . To see the Hybels interview see: ( or
3. He has an organization called The ONE Campaign ( Check out the site to see the partners list and ONE Sabbath.
4. He trumpets the cause of Africa Aids relief and starvation. He’s been involved in Africa and Live Aid since 1985.
5. Nominated for Nobel Peace prize in 2003, ’05, ’06.
6. Involved in the Jubilee Movement—debt cancellation.
7. He can mesmerize a crowd.
8. His influence will be very significant with “Christian” and secular youth.
9. Keynote speaker for the National Prayer Breakfast in 2006.


Anonymous said...

Palestinian, and some European Jewish, groups are calling for a suspension of the EU-Israel Association Agreement (within the context of Israel's new common Action Plan, scheduled for April 2009).

Warning: The article is very anti-Israel and do not recommend reading.


Given that P.A. Pres. Abbas' authority may be contested come January '09, and that the IDF is preparing for possible violence;

and that:

"The new U.S. president will first have to get his senior officials confirmed by Congress, and a foreign policy review, before he begins any major policy initiative. As a result, we should expect a time-out for any active American involvement in the Middle East peace process between the end of this year and at least March or April 2009."

Believe there exists the possibility of a power vacuum in the West Bank, come April 2009.

Should the EU move to fill the vacuum, Dr. Solana may well be caught between "in the middle" between Israel and Palestinians unhappy over 1) the new EU Action Plan w/Israel, and 2) a P.A. president who some will believe to have overstayed his term limits.

Anonymous said...


Thr age-old criterion for judging such initiatives is: "Is it good for the Jews?"

You do not have to be a new agee expert of foreign policy guru to determine the criteria.

Unless Hamas and Fatah change their charters to accept Israel's existence, give up their quest for "return" of millions of "refugees" and declare their readiness to halt all belligerent acts with strict enforcement any proposal is DOA.


Anonymous said...

Clarification: The EU and Israel already have an Association Agreement. Under its terms, there is a new Action Plan scheduled to go into effect April of 2009 that will further enhance the EU-Israel relationship, to which the Palestinians, and some European Jewish, groups are opposed.

Anonymous said...



7. Obama Appoints Two More Anti-Israel Individuals

United States President-elect Barack Obama is considering the appointment of Daniel Kurtzer, former US Ambassador to Egypt (1997-2001) and Israel (2001-2005), to become his administration's presidential envoy to the Middle East, a senior Israeli diplomatic source said this week. Obama's decision to appoint a special envoy reporting to him directly, rather than to the US Secretary of State, indicates that he attaches special importance to the Israel-Arab peace process.

The special envoy job could infringe on the prestige of Hillary Clinton, who was appointed US Secretary of State on Monday. Kurtzer has filled several positions on the US State Department's Middle East desk and was a member of US President Bill Clinton's Middle East negotiation team, headed by Dennis Ross.

During his term in Israel, Kurtzer constantly protested against the settlements and the separation fence route. The Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) states that Kurtzer has a long, documented record of hostility towards Israel. Kurtzer's poor relations with Jerusalem's political bureaus reached a new climax in 1990, when he authored a speech by then-US Secretary of State James Baker strongly criticizing Israel, which was delivered at an AIPAC conference.

Israeli daily YEDIOT AHRONOT editorialized on Kurtzer's malign influence: "Possibly more than any other US State Department official, Kurtzer has been instrumental in promoting the goals of the Palestinians [sic] and in raising their afflictions to the center of the US policymakers' agenda" (YEDIOT AHRONOT, August 9, 1991).

In another appointment, Obama's transition Web site reveals that he has rehired a former advisor who once advocated the US invasion of Israel in order to impose a peace deal on the Jewish state and the Arabs. Samantha Power will serve on the US State Department National Security Team when Obama takes office in January, again raising the eyebrows of Israel's supporters in the US.

During the Democratic Party primary campaign Obama was blasted for having Power on his team by those pointed to a disturbing interview she gave in 2000. In the interview with Harry Kreisler of the Institute for International Studies at Berkeley, Power suggests that the "Israel Lobby" controls US foreign policy, accuses Israel of widespread human rights violations and recommends invading Israel with a "mammoth protection force" to impose a peace agreement. [Ha'aretz, ZOA, Israel Today]

What "...shared values of both parties, and particularly on democracy, respect for
human rights, the rule of law and fundamental freedoms, good governance and international
humanitarian law."?

When children are photographed with fake (and real) automatic weapons in their hands in front of backdrops that glorify "martyrs;" when people shout with glee and pass out candy when the "apes and pigs" [their words--sorry for inculding them here] are killed;
when their "freedom fighters" launch missiles from within civilian populations... there are no "shared values."

Contrast that to the Israeli's real sorrow when they inadvertantly kill innocents (as opposed to the "Palestinians'" purposefully killing innocents).

Israel is getting the short end of the stick.

Anonymous said...


Here's something to add to my previous post (Anonymous 6:12). It's a two-year old list of anti-Israel resolutions adopted by the UN.

Anonymous said...

4:01 (again)--

Here's something else to express my total disdain of the notion of "shared values" between the Israelis and her neighbors.

This is a group of pictures depicting child indoctrination into the "Palestinian" cause.
Although most of the pictures are disturbing because of the hate behind them, they are not anything we in the West haven't seen before.

I stumbled across this site and did not know a *particular* picture was coming up. I wish the author had warned potential viewers.

It's almost in the bottom of the slider location and shows a young girl who was beheaded, because she was a Christian. This is the only such graphic picture.

All together, the pics are sad and sobering.

Anonymous said...

Al Qaeda operatives relocated from Iraq to Lebanon. UNIFIL, northern Israel on terror alert

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

Al Qaeda in Lebanon

December 12, 2008, 11:56 AM (GMT+02:00)

Early Thursday, Dec. 11, the UN peacekeeping force's South Lebanon command declared the Palestinian Ain Hilwe camp near Sidon a no-go zone for the force's convoys for fear of attacks by al Qaeda. The newly-arrived al Qaeda cell from Iraq has taken over large sections of the camp and recruited many Palestinians.

Washington does not rule out a broad al Qaeda offensive in Lebanon and against Israel.
More... at

Dawn said...


Didn't Bono preform in the superbowl a number of years ago with the Coexist on his hat? The "C" was a crescent moon, the "x" was the star of David and the "t" was a cross?

Like this:

there is also this bumper sticker going around that is a take off of this:

Constance Cumbey said...

Dear Sarah:

My prayers are with your family crisis and thank you for yours with mine!


Constance Cumbey said...

Dear YesNaSpanishTown:

Good observations on Bono. The Prayer Breakfast should, unfortunately, be no surprise. I have long since written of the interlocking directorates between them and the very New Age "Institute of Noetic Sciences."


Anonymous said...

This was in this weekends Jerusalem Post from Qurei, who undoubtedly expresses the real views of Palestinians:

I think this reflects how far apart Israel and the Palestinians really are on the negotiations. Can everyone offer enough money to the corrupt Palestinian government to get them to temporarily give up their aspirations for the "whole pie"? If that happens, this will only be temporary.

EU turns a blind eye to the fact that much of the euros it gives go to hate propaganda against Israel and the West..There is also a lot of pressure on these Palestinian leaders to be victorious in the eyes of the Islamists.

The truth is the Palestinians would like to see see the Mediterranean turn red with the color of Jewish blood. The only solution to the problem is the Prince of Peace, so any forced temporary solution will be catastrophic for Israel because it will make it very impossible to defend the borders on a tiny little strip of land being outnumbered. Israel is ver aware of this.

There is also the reality that Iran has nuclear capabilities and Israel will not accept that. They have said so. The so-called moderate Arab nations are in agreement with this. They don't want a nuclear armed Iran.

There is still very real problem that Hamas and Fatah are not united, so a deal with one faction of the Palestinians cannot stick.

The media is certainly ratcheting up the pressure for something to happen with many world leaders giving their two cents.. Israelis have now lived with the reality of what happened with Gaza and are not as willing to vacate their homes, so the Israeli government would have to forcibly evict them or perhaps some foreign UN type force...who knows?

The Hamas peace fire is about to expire so what that will bring is anyone's guess. Jimmy Carter visited the exiled Hamas leader in Syria. Jimmy Carter's ideas on this situation reflects perfectly the ideas of the CFR and since Obama's advisors are from the same club, we can expect more of the same.

The political reality is that Israel is without a leader for the moment so until Netanyahu or someone else is in office, it's pretty hard to see how anything can stick. The pressure is certainly on..and will continue undoubtedly, and who knows maybe Iran is a bargaining chip.

I always found it interesting that the Road Map was rolled out after Baghdad got bombed, and the Arab nations pretty much shut up because Bush started changing his position on ME peace. Israel sees Iran as its worst threat, so is it possible that hitting Iran's nuclear reactors will have to be taken out before a deal is signed? Hard to say, but hard to imagine Israel letting Iran continue to equip the extremists in the region.. Israelis are a lot of things, but not stupid.

Today's Al Jezeera also indicated that the Arabs are fully expecting US to push a two state solution, so expectations are high:

I can no longer find the link to the article, but it was there earlier.

It seems that the two parties concerned are still too far apart to jam some resolution through, but we'll see...perhaps the Saudi plan which has been rumored? God help us..


Anonymous said...

From (12/14/08):

An Iraqi journalist hurled his shoes and an insult at George W. Bush, without hitting him, as the US president was shaking hands with the Iraqi premier at his Baghdad office on Sunday.

As the two leaders met in Nuri al-Maliki's private office, a journalist sitting in the third row jumped up, shouting: "It is the farewell kiss, you dog," and threw his shoes one after the other towards Bush.

Maliki made a protective gesture towards the US president, who ducked and was not hit.

The journalist, Muntazer al-Zaidi from Al-Baghdadia channel which broadcasts from Cairo, was frogmarched from the room by security staff, an AFP journalist said.

Soles of shoes are considered the ultimate insult in Arab culture. After Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled in Baghdad in April 2003, many onlookers beat the statue's face with their soles.

Anonymous said...

ONE /the ONE Campaign
Bono a reçu le prix 2008 « Man of Peace » (Homme de Paix)

Bono Awarded Nobel 'Man Of Peace' Prize
December 13th, 2008 10:04am EST

BonoIrish rocker Bono has been awarded the annual Nobel Man of Peace prize for his efforts to combat poverty, debt and disease in Africa.

Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoe hosted the award ceremony in the city on Friday, honoring the U2 frontman for his global campaign to persuade rich nations to lend assistance to the struggling continent.

Italian co-host Walter Veltroni, added, "We decided to nominate a man who has given a lot and will continue to give a great deal to the struggle for human rights, to the fight against poverty, with his music and with his words. He has put pressure on the world's governments to reach the UN's Millennium Goals. To give him the prize, is to say that fight will carry on."

George Clooney and Don Cheadle were awarded the prize last year.


Anonymous said...


I think this may be the "One" campaign that you referred to. I remember researching this several months back. I believe that Rick Warren was also involved in this as well.

Anonymous said...

Aside from the fact that Obama was accused of plagiarizing Bono in his Berlin speech, I must admit that I was not very familiar with Bono.

However, after reading the following article, I realized that YesnaSpanishTown has made an excellent observation. Thanks for that info, Yesna . For other folks, unfamiliar with Bono's amazing influence in many areas, this was very helpful.


Anonymous said...

Peeky peek at the Greek thread. I have some important secret information for you.


Anonymous said...

Oh Dorothy,
I'm cut to the quick.
The depth of your erudition and
the breath of your "research" are
cascading over me like an avalanche
swallowing me in it's awesome
and thunderous power. I tumble
helplessly down in the rushing
massive computational complexity
of your celestial mental correctness,
smashing every semblance of
soundness or reason in my
underdeveloped and overmatched
I bow and grovel; indeed I kow-tow
to you as I back out of your glorious
presence, where I never should
have been allowed in the first place.

Of course the whole Rothschild family
oligarchy/ banking cartel /empire is
just a myth and the hundreds of
historians and scholars who have
written about them are all completely
wrong.There is no Jacob Rohschild and
there never was his family going
back hundred of years.
Dorothy has said so.
Let all the earth keep silent.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:12 and Joyce,

I would not expect a single individual to stand alone in accomplishing this false peace in Israel. After all the first beast does have a side kick. As far as the palestineans wanting the whole pie, at this point they may be taking a "I'll take what I can get" mentality, fully expecting an eventual open borders policy, at which point they can walk into any part of Israel and lay claim, due to the fact at this point they will all be members of the Med. Union and the sovereignity of the individual states (such as Israel) would be compromised.

I believe the language of my 4:01 post reflects the fact the EU is willing to take any and all steps to make sure the ENP is enforced. In other words once a cease fire is achieved, the land divided, and borders opened the PLO can walk in and lay claim and Israel's hands will be tied. Although I am sure if Israel did this to Palestine they would be reprimanded if not out right attacked. They are trying to take back what God promised to His people, justice over this issue will only come with the return of our Messiah. We are seeing the policies come into force that will eventually bring the armies into Meggido.
Our brothers and sisters in Israel may be willing to give anything now for peace and safety, but we all know this peace WILL NOT last, and one can even look at the landscape now and see why. The only way these people in the EU, PLO, and neighboring lands will ever be happy is if Israel ceased to exist. Which is exactly what they are trying to accomplish, it is simply being done under the premise of diplomacy, all of which is designed to paint Israel as the bad guys. These people learned they can't get the public to accept a quick irradication, so if they do it slowly while painting them with a tainted brush and a slanted canvas they can influence the mass' perception. This is how all of this has managed to get past the majority of the public, because their perception has been altered, when the facts show the complete opposite of the picture being shown. Our time certainly draweth nigh.


Rudi said...

Dorothy provided us with a link (previous comments) regarding
the February 2009 American Citizens' Summit and the Transpartisan Alliance. Everyone should take the time to look it over. Thanks Dorothy.
You asked about my earlier comments and whether there was a site I had visited to get the information regarding the December schedule of the WISEUSA/Gaiafield
project. As stated in my comment,
the information I presented about the December 12, 2008 "Deep Listening Call" came to me by way of an email notice I received from them. I signed up in October o8 to receive their newsletters. This option is offered under "The Movement" heading. You've probably seen the following if you've looked over the site, but for the benefit of others who may not be aware of some of the information:
On the GAIAFIELD Project site under "partners" it says:

"Partners of Gaiafield are major active participants in the Gaiafield Project, contributing significant time, services, or finances. We are so grateful because no one can do it alone. Together, we can."

Under the heading "Gaiafield" the first paragraph mentions the Harmonic Convergence of 1987.We should be able to safely surmise, based on the partners named, and the prominent New Age leadership listed as speakers who participated in their pre-election Talkcasts (David Spangler, Marianne Williamson, Corinne McLaughlin,James O'Dea etc.) that the 2009 schedule of events, however it plays out, will be perfectly synchronized so as to blend nicely with all the other networked NEW AGE events scheduled for the coming year. I expect to see NA organizations and scheduled events focused to merge into one HELL of a celebration on December 3- 9, 2009 during "The 2009 PARLIAMENT OF THE WORLD'S RELIGIONS" in Melbourne, Australia. Many of
the "Interreligious" organizations and high level NA leaders such as Ervin Laszlo/World Shift Network have already, for some time, been posting information promoting the event. Laszlo's site doesn't show it if you look today, but you can read the announcement at this "cached" snapshot of the page as it appeared on Dec 10, 2008 12:55:42 GMT. Seeing as, "birds of a feather flock together" and they are becoming so very vocal in making their announcements I don't expect their activities to be as difficult to pin down as in previous times. Here is one partial 2009 schedule/calendar from the "WE,The World" site -Rudi

We, The World home:


Parliament of the World's Religions 2009 home page:





"God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble."
Psalm 46

Anonymous said...

Dec 15, 2008
Joyce wrote:
The only solution to the problem is the Prince of Peace.

I thought you were writing a serious piece but I was expecting too much.

What can Hezekiah do here?


Anonymous said...

From (12/15/08):

ATF: Accelerant Poured Around Palin's Church

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) - Federal investigators in Alaska say an accelerant was poured around the exterior of Gov. Sarah Palin's home church before it was heavily damaged by a fire.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Monday that the accelerant was poured at several locations around the church, including entrances.

Federal Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Special Agent Nick Starcevic says laboratory tests will determine what the accelerant was.

The blaze was set at the main entrance of the Wasilla Bible Church on Friday evening while a small group, including two children, were inside. No one was injured.

Palin, the former Republican vice presidential candidate, was not at the church at the time of the fire but visited on Saturday.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press.

Anonymous said...

Thanks from all of us for the additional information. When someone such as you posts interesting links, I try to do additional research in order to get further information. Your links are important, but I didn't get to them until today. My post was also a way to get others to go to the links you posted.

Many time I will post minimal information as a way to encourage others to do their own searches. No one should depend on others to do the work for them. There is just too much going on for only a few people to have a grasp on the entire picture.


Anonymous said...

Marine Corps & California Highway Patrol Working Together for "Domestic Security" Over the Holidays-

"It is being reported that the Marine Corps Air and Ground Combat Center (MCAGCC) and the local California Highway Patrol are going to be working together during the holiday's "in a joint effort to reduce accidents and drinking and driving." reports Branson Hunter. Public Affairs Chief, Gunny Sgt. Chris Cox said "“They will be working closely over the month to cut down of traffic accidents,” he said, “the Military Police will observe DUI check points and watch for their own guys. The intent is to have Military Presence out there.” "

Link here to entire article:

Although I see that Alex Jones is reporting this as well, I didn't get this article from his site. Not a fan of Jones either. However, Cali is clearly playing along with the whole "desensitization" process towards the eventual goal of "domestic security" by means of martial law against it's own citizens.
A definite heads-up for us here in the USofA.


Rudi said...

Johnny has posted some important information. It is directly connected by way of Rabbi David Rosen's participation, to the Jerusalem Academy. You may recall Rabbi Rosen along with Ervin Lazslo, and many other familiar personalities are on the Board of the Jerusalem Academy.

Anyone not familiar with what I'm referring to should go back in Constance's archives to Saturday, May 10, 2008.

Beginning on page 123 of the Peace Proposal below you will read information that corresponds directly to Johnny's latest blog post. -Rudi

Jerusalem Academy homepage:


Johnny's SaY No To Global Governance Blogspot-(also listed in Constances' front page links):


Young Grasshopper said...

This is off topic, but I just found it and thought it was interesting.

Susanna probably knows about the prophetic teaching of Vladimir Soloviev, who passed away 100 years ago, but I'd never heard of him before.

Excerpt from the article:

In his final work, The Three Dialogues and the Story of the Antichrist (finished on Easter Sunday 1900), one is struck by how clearly Soloviev foresaw that the 20th century would be "the epoch of great wars, civil strife and revolutions." All this, he said, would prepare the way for the disappearance of "the old structure of separate nations" and "almost everywhere the remains of the ancient monarchical institutions would disappear." This would pave the way for a "United States of Europe."

Full article here:

Anonymous said...

It looks like the Jewish community in US will be being hit pretty hard as a result of the investment fraud by the fellow that lost 50 billion dollars through a ponzi scheme:

Maybe Len or Dorothy have some comments about that?


Anonymous said...

The problem with funding will pull the Jewish community closer together. It was becoming assimilated rapidly. Money was pouring out of the Jewish community into charitable organizations outside of the Jewish community. Even Federations were using much of their money to help individuals who were not Jewish. In order to get government grants Federations had to agree not to discriminate so anyone could apply for help from Federation run agencies.

People who are dependent on others for financial help know where to go for non-governmental help and those getting help from Jewish organizations will be putting more pressure on groups like Catholic Charities and the huge number of other non-profit charitable organizations. People who think the government is the source of all funding for the needy have no idea how much money goes to help others from non-profit private organizations.

A call will be going out to fund Jewish community organizations and Jews will respond. They always have. The Jewish organizations themselves will have to go into their principal in order to continue keep them going.

I think the biggest problem will be loss of jobs for Jewish professionals who are active in non-profits. Fund raisers will have to start to value Jews who are not big givers, something that will be very helpful.


Anonymous said...

Oh Len,
I just saw your Hezekiah comment. I'll answer you with a quote from Yeshua:

Luke 20:39 -47 Some of the scribes answered and said, “Teacher, You have spoken well.” For they did not have courage to question Him any longer about anything. Then He said to them, “How is it that they say the Christ is David’s son? “For David himself says in the book of Psalms,
“Therefore David calls Him ‘Lord,’ and how is He his son?” And while all the people were listening, He said to the disciples, “Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love respectful greetings in the market places, and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets, who devour widows’ houses, and for appearance’s sake offer long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.”

When Yeshua's enemies are under His feet, we will be calling Him Prince of Peace. I don't know what you'll be doing though, Len..


Anonymous said...

I'm not sure the impact on the needy is the only thing impacted here, according to this Al Jazeera article quite a few financial institutions have been hit at a time when things are already not going well:

I hope it doesn't create more antisemitism..


Anonymous said...

RE: Bono and COEXIST

Yes, I've read he's worn it on a bandanna.

And in lights...

"Bono appeared amongst the crowd - much like a resurrected Christ among his disciples - but draped in an Aussie flag. In approval, God graced his poverty-campaigning rock and roll soldier with a thorough downpour, which, if a short-lived piece of inconvenience for fans and the band, made photo taking a real challenge.

The opening song, City Of Blinding Lights, could have been a tribute to the stage, but instead it was the beginning of a very spiritual journey for every one of the 50,000 fans in attendance."

You could be right, YesNaSpanishTown.
Bummer...I like lots of U2 songs.


Anonymous said...

Yes, I agree things could play out like that time will tell and the beast definitely has help.

On this link they affirm the Earth Charter.

I just posted something on Bjorn's site about Damanhur also supporting the Earth Charter. EC people met the EU Christian Environmental Network folks. Look whose listed on their site:

One big happy family..


Anonymous said...


Another Democrat scandal which won't be called that.
"But you won’t find much mention of his other favorite activity: giving money to Democrats who had oversight responsibility for the securities industry."


Anonymous said...

The Club of Budapest (sibling organisation of the Club of Rome) has recently declared a ... State of Global Emergency!!

They say we only have 4 or 5 years left!! Oh the humanity! Fortunately they have devised a plan to save us...

Anonymous said...

News with Views has a new article on the talk of a Constitutional Convention (mentioned awhile back)

and also an article explaining the "greater good" which would be the result of Agenda 21

Anonymous said...

Dorothy 2:24 and others,

My sister is an attorney for the SEC who was hired to investigate insider trading in the Clinton administration. She said she has sat on her hands and twiddled her thumbs for years because the Bush administration has refused to prosecute.

This fact just adds strength to my opinion that both the DEMS and the GOP are corrupt through and through.

Anonymous said...

Ponzi Scheme and what about Robert Rubin ? There are trillions of dollars lost.
I read about it at Savethemales

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:54

Just my two cents, which the value of is decreasing by the minute. While I do believe our two party system (which in history was actually more than the two groups we currently see) was designed to keep checks and balances in our government. Currently ( the last 30plus years) I believe the system has been a tool used to keep the people of this country divided, because if we ever really came together we may want to see what is behind the curtain.

More and more things seem to be popping up which only further validate this thought. An example would be Obama's expressed desire for a civilian security force, only to have Bush admin mandate a force of military designed for homeland use. Or the subprime mortgage fiasco which while started by Clinton, was pushed and fueled into utter failure of our economy by the current administration. Either the differences in the parties are not what the politicians claim they are or there have been a ton of coincidences that seem to show these people with similar agendas.

As you stated Bush refused to prosecute, why though? Could it be because if he did the whole house of cards may come crumbling down around him? We have further evidence of this with the incoming Obama, during primaries he equated Hillary's foreign policy experience to having tea with a few foreign dignitaries, now he has appointed her to the most crucial foreign policy post there is.

This type of double speak that many americans simply accept as part of the process speaks volumes. Mccain is another example, he talsk about Barracks shady alliances, which to most people who truly care about the well being of our nation this would be a huge moral dilema, now they are buddies, and John seems to be taking an advisory role. All while people accept it as politics as usual, when it should be raising bright red flags. The majority of the public has been deceived and willingly so. Our constitution warns of this type of political tyranny, and yet many still wonder why a vast section of our people have no clue as to what the document actually talks about. I know I have went on a rant here, but I feel these things to be worth discussion. As not discussing them for fear of offending some one has gotten us bamboozled, thats right I said bamboozled. lol


Anonymous said...

Hi Young Grasshopper,

Actually, Carrie Tomko knows a lot more about Soloviev than I do - particularly with regard to "Sophiology" which has significant gnostic overtones.

He is rumored to have converted to Roman Catholicism only about three or four years before his death.

In his book THE OCCULT ESTABLISHMENT, James Webb maintains that at one time Soloviev was heavily involved with the occult.

With regard to Soloviev's portrayal of Antichrist, I would add:

The accuracy of Soloviev¹s vision of the great crisis that would strike Christianity at the end of the 20th century is astonishing. He represents this crisis using the figure of the Antichrist. This fascinating personage will succeed in influencing and persuading almost everyone. It is not difficult to see in this figure of Soloviev the reflection, almost the incarnation, of the confused and ambiguous religiosity of our time.

The Antichrist will be a "convinced spiritualist," Soloviev says, an admirable philanthropist, a committed, active pacifist, a practicing vegetarian, a determined defender of animal rights. He will not be hostile "in principle" to Christ. Indeed, he will appreciate Christ's teaching. But he will reject the teaching that Christ is unique, and will deny that Christ is risen and alive today.

One sees here described a Christianity of "values," of "openings," of "dialogue," a Christianity where it seems there is little room left for the person of the Son of God crucified for us and risen, little room for the actual event of salvation. A scenario, I think, that should cause us to reflect...

A scenario in which the faith militant is reduced to humanitarian and generically cultural action, the Gospel message is located in an irenic encounter with all philosophies and all religions and the Church of God is transformed into an organization for social work. Are we sure Soloviev did not foresee what has actually come to pass? Are we sure it is not precisely this that is the most perilous threat today facing the "holy nation" redeemed by the blood of Christ - the Church? It is a disturbing question and one we must not avoid.

We must not forget that at the time of the writing of the Book of Revelations (Apocalypse) the two chief dangers to the Church were emperor worship and gnosticism. If these two dangers have had a tendency to go tandem, it is because of gnosticism's strong pantheistic strain according to which everything in the universe is somehow a part of god. Ergo the emperor as a "god"....the country as a "goddess."

This is no less true today than it was in ancient times. We are simply in the presence of old errors that have been given new labels.

Totalitarianism and statism are simply two modern forms of emperor worship.

Alongside the actual Roman emperors of ancient times, the "goddess Rome" was worshipped.

As the late French philosopher Charles Peguy once put it: "Everything begins with la mystique and ends with la politique."

Perhaps Hannah Arendt was thinking along these lines when she defined the various totalitarian regimes of the 20th century as "secret societies established in broad daylight."

Paintdancer said...


Thanks for the links.

I do agree with Hannah Arendt!

I actually did not realize Soloviev was a gnostic when I posted the link last night. I thought he was a prophet way ahead of his time! LOL- dumb me.

However, the Gnosticism would explain why he was able to understand what was coming down 100 years before his time.

I would like to respectfully disagree with you on one thing, though- I think of Gnosticism more as the worship of Lucifer than as a form of pantheism- some sects of Gnosticism were into the belief that Cain was the son of Eve and Lucifer-hence the seed of Cain was enlightened. The Gnostics believe in the principle of good and evil, only Lucifer is good and Yahweh is evil. Hence they are not pantheists in the same sense as the Romans were . However, it's hard to define exact differences between the secret societies anymore.

As Constance has pointed to numerous times, the words of Barbara Marx Hubberd:
"Now all the resonating core groups with outwardly different purposes are merging and blending and coming together to do the One Work . . ." Barbara Marx Hubbard

I found this link after you mentioned Sophiology. Seems you were correct and Soloviev was heavily into the occult in his latter years.

Thanks for the links to the roman ruins- amazing how much of these relics of ancient Babylon are left.

Anonymous said...


I was logged into my other account.


Anonymous said...


In response to your comment:

I would like to respectfully disagree with you on one thing, though- I think of Gnosticism more as the worship of Lucifer than as a form of pantheism- some sects of Gnosticism were into the belief that Cain was the son of Eve and Lucifer-hence the seed of Cain was enlightened.

First of all, you are NOT dumb! You are very smart!

Secondly, I think we are basically in agreement. Gnosticism is BOTH the worship of Lucifer AND pantheistic. It would take too long to go into a more complete explanation here, but to put it briefly, the gnostic cosmogony is "emanationist" which goes contrary to the idea of God creating "ex nihilo" (from nothing.)

Gnostics teach that from God, the Father, emanated numberless Divine, supra-mundane Æons, less and less perfect, which, taken all together, constitute the fullness (pleroma) of Divine life.

The heretical writings of the late Jesuit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin is redolent of the gnostic emanationist cosmogony and has been called "evolutionary pantheism."

Also, the gnostics "called good evil and evil good." Those who we regard as villains in the Bible were heroes and "saints" to the gnostics.

Have you ever read the writings of St. Irenaeus? Adversus haereses?

Here it is online. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp of Smyrna. Polycarp was a disciple of John the Evangelist, a disciple of Jesus and author of the fourth Gospel and the Book of Revelations.

In the end, the pantheistic strain of gnosticism works something like ANIMAL FARM.

LOL Everything is "God," but some are more "divine" than others.

Do you get my drift?

Anonymous said...

Joyce quotes Psalm 110, misinterpreted in the New Testament:

“For David himself says in the book of Psalms,
“Therefore David calls Him ‘Lord,’ and how is He his son?”

Joyce; will you please explain this for us? Then I can correct you again:-)

Hint: You misunderstand the psal if you use all capital letters.


Anonymous said...

The main thing to say about Mr. Madoff's "Ponzi scheme" is that, as someone who did not observe the Seventh Commandment (whether "religious" or not), he got his just desserts and is in prison now.

I feel sorry for his victims just as I feel sorry for all victims.

I am an investor myself. Several hedge fund managers and investment execs are co-congregants. Even though I am convinced they are honest ones, I have turned down requests to invest with them. I use large above-board institutions like Fidelity to park my liquid assets and as a broker. So if I lose money I can blame only myself.

I am reminded of Proverbs 11:28 He who relies on his wealth will fall, but the righteous will flourish like a leaf.
13:11 Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished, but he who gathers by hand will increase.
16:16 How much better is it to acquire wisdom than gold! And to acquire understanding is preferable to silver.
18:12 Before ruin, a man's heart becomes haughty, but before honor there is humility.
19:21 There are many thoughts in a man's heart, but God's plan-that shall stand.
22:19 He who tills his soil will be sated with bread, but he who pursues vain things will be sated with poverty. 20 A trustworthy man will have many blessings, but he who hastens to become rich will not go unpunished. 21 To be partial is not good, but for a piece of bread a man will sin. 22 He who hastens to [acquire] wealth is a man with an evil eye, and he does not know that want will come upon him.

And from King Solomon (Ecclesiastes):
5:9 Whoever loves [money] will not be sated with [money], nor he who loves [wealth] his fill of income -- this too is vanity. 10 As his substances increases so do those who consume it, and what is the advantage to its Master, except seeing [with] His eyes? 11 The sleep of the laborer is sweet, whether he eat little or much, but the satiety of the rich does not allow him to sleep. 12 There is a grievous evil that I saw under the sun; riches kept by their owner for his harm. 13 And those riches are lost through an unlucky venture, and if he begets a son, he will have nothing in his hand.
10:6 Folly was set at great heights, and the rich sit in a low place. 7 I saw slaves on horses and princes walking like slaves on the ground. 8 One who digs a pit shall fall therein, and one who breaks a fence -- a snake shall bite him.

12:13 The end of the matter, everything having been heard, fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the entire man. 14 For every deed God will bring to judgment-for every hidden thing, whether good or bad. The end of the matter, everything having been heard, fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the entire man.

Peace and blessing,


Young Grasshopper said...


I got it, lol.

Thanks for the info. I'll definitely check out the writings of St. Irenaeus.

And yes-"Animal Farm" is a good way of describing Gnosticim.

By the way I just did a post on Gnosticism/Mithraism. I feel very strongly that this mystery cult is connected to the upcoming Maitreya
appearance. It's long but you may enjoy it.

Anonymous said...

Hi Young Grasshopper,

LOL Glad you "got it." I TOLD you that you were smart!

I believe in you. Now YOU have to believe in you!

Regarding your post on gnosticism being the worship of Lucifer, this is not only true whether explicitly or implicitly, but it is also true that Lucifer/Satan was the FIRST GNOSTIC.

Perhaps this is a bit crude, but I think the best way of helping people to understand that gnosticism is more a system of thought than a religion is to compare it to how human beings relate to each other and communicate.

Let's take you and me for example. I cannot know what you are thinking unless you freely choose to REVEAL your thoughts to me.
And you cannot know what I am thinking unless I choose to REVEAL my thoughts to you.

If you choose to tell me that you are thinking one thing and I presume to claim to KNOW that you are thinking something quite different, THIS is a perfect example how gnostics think.

Usually there is magic involved with gnosticism. Gnostics think that by means of their magical formulae, false mysticism and incantations, they can tap into the mind of God and KNOW what God is thinking independently of divine revelation (i.e. the Bible) whether God likes it or not.

Now if Lucifer/Satan (one and the same regardless of what the occultists say)was the first gnostic, Adam and Eve were the second gnostics in so far as they chose to believe in the Devil's lies instead of what God had directly revealed to them.

If you understand this, you will understand that gnosticism is the INVARIABLE ELEMENT in every Christian heresy insofar as it rejects faith in divine revelation, preferring instead to think that one can KNOW God's will independently of divine revelation by means of magical spells, false mysticism and incantations.

I know that I have probably put it rather crudely, but this is basically the difference between "knowing by faith" and the "heresy of knowing."

St. Irenaeus had much to say about the gnostic errors.

For me a couple of things stood out.

St. Irenaeus said that gnosticism was blasphemous insofar as it "pretended to see what was veiled as if it were face to face." A modern example would be Aleister Crowley claiming to have experienced the Beatific Vision.

St. Irenaeus also declared gnosticism to be an outright fraud insofar as the things gnostics claimed TO KNOW were things which in the last analysis had to be taken ON FAITH!

Young Grasshopper said...


I agree with you on this. You said:

"If you understand this, you will understand that gnosticism is the INVARIABLE ELEMENT in every Christian heresy insofar as it rejects faith in divine revelation, preferring instead to think that one can KNOW God's will independently of divine revelation by means of magical spells, false mysticism and incantations."

You are exactly right in that Gnostic beliefs are inherent in every Christian heresy. These same elements were also part of all the ancient mystery cults as well, in my opinion.

I picked up a book that I had bought many years ago, and which I think I recall you and Dorothy have read, as it came up during the summer discussion of the Peacock angel.

In the book , A History of Secret Societies, Arkon Daraul said,
regarding Gnosticism,
" The main teaching states that there is a supreme being or power which is invisible and has no perceptible form. This power is the one which can be contacted by mankind, and it is through it that man can control himself and work out his destiny."

So this goes back to pantheism- the idea that man can control his own destiny and become like Gods by becoming "enlightened through initiation". These mystical rites of initiation are exactly what God warned against over and over again in the old testament. He knew where they would lead, i.e. if the Hebrews intermarried with the women who practiced these things.

Thanks for telling me I'm smart, by the way. It's just as well that I don't think of myself that way, as too much knowledge is dangerous, as this conversation about "gnosis" and the Gnostics proves!LOL.

Anonymous said...

UNSC ratifies resolution on Palestine
Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:14:34 GMT

The UN Security Council has approved a resolution on Israeli-Palestinian conflict without referring to the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

The resolution stressed that a US-sponsored peace process between Israelis and Palestinians was irreversible and urged intensified efforts to conclude a peace treaty and fulfill the vision that they can live peacefully side by side as independent democratic states.

The vote was 14-0, with Libya abstaining because the resolution did not condemn Israel's "siege on the Gaza Strip'' and intensified settlement activities in the Palestinian territories.

The costal strip is experiencing a humanitarian crisis due to the Israeli blockade which has left more than 1.5 million Gaza residents without basic supplies, including food and medicine.

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said before the vote that all council members regret that an agreement won't be reached this year, but he said "a serious process is under way'' and the international community must ensure that the negotiations achieve results.

In the West Bank city of Ramallah, Palestinian Authority spokesman Nabil Abu Rudeina characterized the resolution as "encouraging ... especially because it calls for the total support of the international community for the peace process and allows us to keep up hope for peace" in the region.

He called on the Security Council and the Middle East peace quartet to "act quickly with the Israeli and Palestinian parties with a view to reaching a peace accord".

For his part, top Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat said he saw the resolution as a "positive step," while expressing hope that it "does not end up on the shelf with other resolutions that have not been applied".

He added that he was looking for Israel to halt its settlement activities and its occupation of Palestinian lands seized in 1967, including East al-Quds.

On Monday, the Quartet of Mideast peacemakers -- the US, the UN, the European Union and Russia -- also said the Israeli-Palestinian negotiating process launched at Annapolis summit "is irreversible'' and should be intensified to establish a Palestinian state as soon as possible.

The council resolution also notes the importance of the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative, which says that Israel must withdraw from the Arab land it occupied in 1967, in exchange for diplomatic ties with Arab states.

The 2002 version of the proposal also says that Tel Aviv must allow Palestinian refugees to return to their land and accept al-Quds as the capital of a future Palestinian state where the Israeli regime continues its settlement activities despite the international criticism.

No tangible progress has been achieved in the Middle East peace process since its relaunching in Annapolis conference in November last year as Israel has not observed the commitments reached in the summit.
So now what man says is irreversible. HMMM?

Anonymous said...

JD 1:40

I am in total agreement with your statement, but its hard to tell where it actually started, with which president now.

Anonymous said...

Hi Young Grasshopper,

You wrote regarding gnosticism:

These same elements were also part of all the ancient mystery cults as well, in my opinion.

You are absolutely correct. In certain respects, gnosticism was an issue even with regard to its influence on paganism.

First, I want to make one thing clear.....namely that the Church Fathers regarded ALL worship of pagan deities as the worship of demons.

But even here a distinction needs to be made between pagans who honestly sought to worship God with what little knowledge of God they had, and those evil pagans who sought to USE God to acquire power over their fellow men and whatever else they happened to selfishly desire.

In his book EVIDENCE OF SATAN IN THE MODERN WORLD, the late Msgr. Leon Cristiani explains the distinction between what he called "satanism as religion" and "satanism as magic."

According to Msgr. Cristiani, "Satanism as magic" is light years more satanic than "satanism as religion."

Msgr. Cristiani points out that while honest pagans practicing "satanism as religion" were indeed mistaken in the object of their worship, they were NOT mistaken in thinking that worship ought to be directed SOMEWHERE.

The point is made even better by C.S. Lewis in his CHRONICLES OF NARNIA - THE LAST BATTLE.

Some Narnians are evil, and some Calormenes are good. In fact, one of the better-developed characters in The Last Battle is an emphatically good Calormene, Emeth, whose name is the Hebrew word for "truth" (אמת). Thus Lewis denotes Emeth as one who prizes objective truth above all, and Jesus revealed: "I am the Truth" (John 14:6). Therefore Emeth (lover of Truth) ignorantly served the demon Tash but did so as a Narnian might well serve the True God Aslan — dutifully and with love and devotion, to the best of his knowledge interacting receptively with any truly divine light given him — and was thereby allowed to ascend to Aslan's perfect Narnia.

Even in the Old Testament there were sacrifices offered for sins committed out of ignorance.

Numbers 15:24

Leviticus 4:22-26
Leviticus 5:27-25

In my opinion, Scriptures hint at the idea that the holy angels were charged with protecting honest pagans from being harmed by the demons they mistakenly worshipped.

Young Grasshopper said...


I am in absolute agreement with you on these things.

There are many good people in Africa, for example, who live very difficult lives. They struggle to survive, and animism and voodoo are part of their lifestyles because they have not known anything else, and yet they are desperately searching for meaning in their lives, just like you and me. They can certainly not be considered evil in light of what they don't know.

However,any person who acts as a shepherd to a flock, whether it be a Catholic priest or a rabbi or the pastor of an evangelical church, has been given oversight of that flock to guard and protect their souls , and should be held to a higher standard, by avoiding sin through bad example (Jim Bakker immediately comes to mind) that makes a mockery of his church, or teaching out and out heresies, as some liberal Christian churches do these days. These are intentional sins obviously, and far different from the pagan worship of the Africans mentioned above, who know nothing else.

Thanks for the link to Leviticus. As I was reading it, I couldn't help but think how glad I am that I don't have to run out and get a goat every time I sin. Raising bulls and goats for sacrifice would be one heck of a lucrative profession today if those rules still applied!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the link to Leviticus. As I was reading it, I couldn't help but think how glad I am that I don't have to run out and get a goat every time I sin. Raising bulls and goats for sacrifice would be one heck of a lucrative profession today if those rules still applied!

Not to mention the corrupt purveyors of suitable sacrificial beasts and the money changers in the temple....the latter of which were driven out of the temple by our Lord with a whip!

I hear you on the idea of having to go out and buy a goat every time I sin.

When I was a kid, my grandfather used to get me some rather unusual "pets."

The first was a lamb. LOL I remember that when I petted my pet lamb, it was like petting a sweater.

The next pet Grandpa gave me was a Billy goat. I've gotta tell you, Young Grasshopper, never was there a more ornery "pet." None of us kids dared to bend down in front of that bad boy! He would have butted us in the butt with his nasty little horns.

Double LOL. I have to say that the really great thing about the unusual "pets" my Grandpa gave me was that when I went to Church, I was prepared. I KNEW the difference between the sheep and the goats!!!

Alf Cengia said...

"In my opinion, Scriptures hint at the idea that the holy angels were charged with protecting honest pagans from being harmed by the demons they mistakenly worshipped."

I suspect you might be right, Susanna.

Young Grasshopper said...



I too had a run-in with a goat as a child. They are definitely NASTY critters!

Anonymous said...

Young Grasshopper,


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