Friday, July 24, 2009

Snippet on Next Part of HI-JACKING OF EVANGELICALISM - disguised theosophy?

I am working on the Hi-Jacking of Evangelicalism, Part VI, "Evangelicalism or Disguised Theosophy." This will be published on NewswithViews.com and simultaneously here as well. I thought you might be interested in helping me evaluate this as I go along. Interestingly, Abraham ("Abram") Vereide and Frank Buchman were part of the shaping of the UN in 1945 in their San Francisco convocations. These paragraphs are from Jeff Sharlet's THE FAMILY. His source was Norman Grubb's MODERN VIKING, his biographical account of Abraham Vereide and his International Christian Leadership now very much in the news as part of the C Street Center in Washington, D.C., the address where Paul Temple sent his very large annual contributions.

"On Abraham Vereide: Vereide arrived in Washington, D.C., on September 6, 1941, as the guest of a man referred to only as “Colonel Brindley.” “Here I am finally,” he wrote to his wife, Mattie, who remained in Seattle. “In a day or two—many will know that I am in town and by God's grace it will hum.” Within weeks he had held his first D.C. prayer meeting, attended by more than a hundred congressmen. By 1943, now living in a suite at Colonel Brindley's University Club, Vereide was an insider. “My what a full and busy day!” he wrote to Mattie on January 22. The Vice President brought me to the Capitol and counseled with me regarding the programs and plans, and then introduced me to Senator Brewster, who in turn to Senator Burton—then planned further the program and enlisted their cooperation. Then to the Supreme Court for visits with some of them . . . then back to the Senate, House. . . . The hand of the Lord is upon me. He is leading.

By the end of the war, nearly a third of U.S. senators attended one of his weekly prayer meetings.

In 1944, Vereide had foreseen what he called “the new world order.” “Upon the termination of the war there will be many men available to carry on,” Vereide wrote in a letter to his wife. “Now the ground-work must be laid and our leadership brought to face God in humility, prayer and obedience.” He began organizing prayer meetings for delegates to the United Nations, at which he would instruct them in God's plan for rebuilding from the wreckage of the war. Donald Stone, a high-ranking administrator of the Marshall Plan, joined the directorship of Vereide's organization. In an undated letter, he wrote Vereide that he would “soon begin a tour around the world for the , combining with this a spiritual mission.” Vereide met with Jewish survivors and listened to their stories, but he nevertheless considered ex-Nazis well suited for the demands of “strong” government, so long as they were willing to worship Christ as they had Hitler.


I also read on page 143 of Grubb's book that in 1952, Princess Wilhelmina (the abdicated Queen Wilhelmina) of Holland served as President of ICL (International Christian Leadership). Here, I briefly note for the record that Queen Wilhelmina had been one of Krishnamurti's biggest patrons in his abortive attempt to head a "New World Order" as Maitreya or "new Christ."

Much more later! Stay tuned



Constance
Comments:
Of particular note Vereide's comment:

"so long as they were willing to worship Christ as they had Hitler."

I thought Rick Warren was being original when he called for a world army of Christians marching in unison just like Hitler's brown shirts...

See

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRctKSeyQ-s

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fzwljL2LTQ
 
Constance,

Please check gmail for follow up email.

JD
 
Constance,
It was suggested that now that Obama style health care is in the news a show by you on your experience with Kevorkian and euthanasia would be extremely informative. Please consider it.

Dorothy
 
for anyone who is still paying attention to the appearance of "300" in major headlines here is another seemingly significant one from Reuters:

"CDC stops swine flu death count at 300"

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-SwineFlu/idUSTRE56N3PQ20090724

nick
 
OK, I've missed this one: what is the significance of the number 300?
 
Hey, Bjorn is into the numbers and "synchronicity" -- NOT Constance!
 
Farmer has an interesting link today, about the Czech President criticizing the EU's "empty words" in an effort to centralize the economic policies of the member states.
(Even if Farmer is a puzzle these days, he still carries some things of note on his blog. CC also mentioned this fact the other day.)
 
"Farmer" / "Far More" is playing a fascinating and disturbing game. Yesterday he had a highly anti-Semitic piece up. Today he had one about his friend, a holocaust survivor. Where I come from, it is known as "talking out of both sides of the mouth."

He has effectively divided our community as well as broken his family.

I'm still praying for his repentance, remembering, however, the biblical injunction: A HERETICK AFTER TWO OR MORE ADMONITIONS REJECT. St. Paul in Titus.
Constance
 
Just wait until those who divided with Farmer are lead to bow before the blue god. I recomment they receive the eye salve Jesus offered in Revelation and wash their robes before it is too late.
 
Rick Warren is writing a new book to be released Easter Sunday, 2010.

The title will be....(drum roll please) "The Hope of the World"

hmmm, interesting!
 
Here's wondering what Bjorn's role might be in THE ARMAGEDDON SCRIPT? "Their script is now written SUBJECT TO LAST MINUTE EDITING . . . even now the walk on players are waiting in the wings . . ."

Was "Farmer / Far More" some last minute editing to deal with us . . . His Glasgow conference last year seems to deal with interreligious communication . . .

Just wondering . . . with scepticism for "Bjorn's repentance" which seems to have shut out the wife and more deeply emBEDDED the horned forehead girlfriend . . . all in the service of his "Blue God" . . .

???????????????

How stupid can we all get?
 
jacklyn--

I am so skeptical of Rick Warren. I truly pray that the hope he writes about points to Jesus and not some man made thing like PEACE or the UN, etc.
 
Me thinks the enemy has been listening closely gathering phrases and paraphrases and now begins to feed them back to everyone with the intention of dividing and driving the wedge, thinking that they are smart and sassy and thinking that "anonymous" is really anonymous, so like fools they run to the slaughter.
But the dogs have a great sense of smell and you just can't fool them. You can't fake Christianity very well even though you have ( someone told you ) a "high IQ". Even though you've read Pavlov and Skinner and you did such a great job playing the Academic game and you're a regular chameleon.
Even though you now have little letters after your name, your only contribution is sci-fi, like L.Ron Hubbard.
That being your only contribution, coupled with the fact that a purely academic career is purely about articles and publishings, you find yourself in a shark tank with Hammerheads and Great Whites all around and they're more hungry than you.
 
For the people wondering how or why our "Christian" leader was mentored by communists but implementing fascism, this link with the hijacked Christianity theory is important.

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/newage.html#metatop

"Maitreyanism is theosophic authoritarian communism. Naziism is a historical example of Maitreyanism, except that the Nazis crushed unionism. Göbbels, the propaganda minister of the Nazi regime, observed that Nazi indoctrination produced militants who "obey a law they are not even consciously aware of but which they could recite in their dreams." (Q.V. Virilio, 1996, p.11). The current crop of Maitreyans (New Agers) are also Nazis, though with a fully unionized program."
 
Here's wondering what Bjorn's role might be in THE ARMAGEDDON "SCRIPT? "Their script is now written SUBJECT TO LAST MINUTE EDITING . . . even now the walk on players are waiting in the wings . . ."

Was "Farmer / Far More" some last minute editing to deal with us . . . His Glasgow conference last year seems to deal with interreligious communication . . ."

Glasgow - you are getting warmer. Doubt Bjorn has got anything to do with it though.

cheers, brian

ps. how much you earning nowadays, in the hard times, Constance ?
 
Newspaceman,

The outcome of Shiva/Blue God and those who follow with the mark in their forehad has already been determined by Jesus Christ and that's as warm as it gets!

Cheers now because it will be gnashing of teeth later on for the initiated ones.
 
It's a stretch, but I wonder if Bjorn had anything to do with this. He seems to be an expert at playing the double agent. Note the Glascow connection.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6723980.ece
http://tinyurl.com/ldztx8

From The Times
July 23, 2009
Gallery’s invitation to deface the Bible brings obscene response

"A publicly funded exhibition is encouraging people to deface the Bible in the name of art — and visitors have responded with abuse and obscenity.

"The show includes a video of a woman ripping pages from the Bible and stuffing them into her bra, knickers and mouth.

"The open Bible is a central part of Made in God’s Image, an exhibition at the Gallery of Modern Art (Goma) in Glasgow. By the book is a container of pens and a notice saying: “If you feel you have been excluded from the Bible, please write your way back into it.”...."

Supposedly the exhibit was not meant to offend, but look at the connections of the sponsoring group.

His specialty with the EU is intercultural communications.

Dorothy
 
Just came from looking at Farmer's July 23rd blogspot. He is back with THE NIGHT AT THE MUSEUM. Hmmm, he's used that NIGHT AT THE MUSEUM both to advance his BLUE GOD STAR path to Shiva / Pan and supposedly to advance his anti-Semitic march to "Jesus" which he then in turn tried to cover up with a piece about how he and a holocaust survivor were such good "friends in Jesus."

Will the real Bjorn please stand up -- maybe we're all part of his NIGHT AT THE MUSEUM!!!
 
It is noteworthy that Farmer's allies are the synchronicity crowd and the Christians who favorably look upon adultery and satanism.
 
I wonder if Roma and her husband Roy have met Bjorn's follower "C" from Bjorn's blogroll and what they might havetalked about.

"C" appears to have very little meat on his bones.....
 
Will the real Bjorn please stand up -- maybe we're all part of his NIGHT AT THE MUSEUM!!!


Sadly I think no one is feeling this more deeply than Bjorn's wife. If you are reading this Mrs. Freiberg my heart aches for you and your family. The deception and betrayal of all this must be soul-destroying.
 
Dawn, I have absolutely no use for Rick Warren, as far as I'm concerned he is a wolf in sheep's clothing and I would not want to be in his shoes on judgment day!

Nevertheless, due to his tremendous influence, I'm curious to see what his "hope for the world" is...I'm sure it's not a message to repent and beleive on the Lord Jesus Christ or suffer the penalty of an eternal hell, after all, that might make the seekers uncomfortable.
 
Jaclyn, I have always enjoyed your posts here, and Paul, I believe you are right on the mark. The problem has always been in the church one of "separating the sheep from the goats." Our Lord Jesus also said that on Judgment Day He will "separate the wheat from the tares." He told us that He will not separate them until that Day lest the wheat also be uprooted.

Discerning the true Christians from the false is hard work, but as the Lord said again, His "sheep know His voice"! So all we can really do is to know our own condition and pray for ourselves and for others.

As everyone here is indicating, God's people live for GOD; the Devil's people live for the WORLD = POWER & PLEASURE
 
Jaclyn-

I am with you on Rick Warren. He certainly seem to say the right thing to convince a lot of people. I did a google search on The Hope of the World Rick Warren. There was a message board with some interesting post about his relationship with those involved in mysticism. http://tiny.cc/6xQ3R
 
I meant to post this awhile back. In the current issue of Psycho Heresy Awareness newsletter was a snip telling of some therapy to overcome fear of God (or, as the therapists call Him, god). I wish I could find the newsletter now so I could put in the web address. I guess, however, it is not necessary, since this kind of crazy therapy probably is not so unbelievable these days, anyway. But I mention it because it is just one more thing to bring down our world.
 
Greg, Thank you! I agree, there is a great sifting on it's way. I think of Elijah who felt so alone and God reminded him, there was still a remnant.

Likewise today, the road feels so very narrow and only a few seem to be traveling it...but God has for Himself a people, a church, which He Himself is building and the gates of hell will NOT prevail against it!

The evil doers and dark forces are headed for certain destruction, in the end, they will watch us as we take our thrones and rule and reign with Christ forever and ever!

Our future is glorious.
 
Constance is a mentally disturebed individual espousing a mutilated and distorted view of "Christianity". The number of false inferences and distortions she writes would fill the OED. And her bogus "law" degree gives her no especial insight when it comes to "researching" these "issues" most of which do not exist.

I see that you are promoting your books that are both horrid and ignorant. You should avoid the ignorance and lies which you peddle with a view to lining your pockets. Mammon be Praised!

This blog amply demonstrates that most people who call themselves “Christians” are little more than petty simple minded bigots, ignorant of theology, lacking in an appropriately classical education, with a stunning lack of discernment, and a complete disregard for their fellow human beings.

This is why I worship Isis. Isis is a Goddess worthy of reverent worship and offerings unlike the “Christ” this blog's rather mentally stunted author professes. The lack of discernment here is appalling as is the author’s gross mutilation and distortion of the Gospel.

Not that all who call themselves “Christians” are knuckle dragging cretins, many are so malformed that their knuckles don’t reach the ground.

Such is Constance.

All praise be to Isis!
 
To Bjorn,

If you are reading here, I hope that I might offer some bible sources for you to read.

I believe that God spoke to me today regarding you, and i have been praying for both you and your family.

Bjorn, you are acting a lot like the prophet Balaam, who knew the truth but wanted to find loopholes in the truth so he could continue doing the things that he wanted to do, but which God opposes. Balaam was into occult divination and evil people like Balak contacted Balaam in the hopes of using Balaam's occult knowledge to do harm to God's people. Balaam got into the wrong stuff, and greatly displeased the Lord.

I would ask you to read Numbers 21-24 for insight into Balaam's story. Then read 2 Peter 13-22 for insight into what becomes of Balaam and those like him.

Additional sources of insight into how the New Testament regarded Balaam and those like him can be found in the book of Jude, especially verse 11, and Revelations 2:14.

Why do good people fall? Ask W.C.Fields, who on his deathbed was found reading the bible and looking for "Loopholes".

You had a desire for spirituality, but went the wrong way with it.

Finally, please read James 1:13-18 about temptation.

I hope these bible verses will help you and give you some clarity. I truly feel the Lord wanted me to pass these along to you. I hope they help.
 
Baal,

I quote your 1:50 p.m. post:"Constance is a mentally disturebed individual espousing a mutilated and distorted view of "Christianity"." ...
and:
"This blog amply demonstrates that most people who call themselves “Christians” are little more than petty simple minded bigots, ignorant of theology, lacking in an appropriately classical education, with a stunning lack of discernment, and a complete disregard for their fellow human beings.

This is why I worship Isis. Isis is a Goddess worthy of reverent worship and offerings unlike the “Christ” this blog's rather mentally stunted author professes. The lack of discernment here is appalling as is the author’s gross mutilation and distortion of the Gospel."

As a preface for you, as a courtesy, I picked my knuckles up off the ground, washed my hands (despite my soap phobia) and put band aids on my knuckle scrapes, before typing this. I thought it a proper consideration considering your well thought out remarks.

I find the "quality" of your post most welcome. All of us here often wonder if the impecability and accuracy of what Constance and her merry band of associated "knuckledraggers" who read and share our information and reasonings, has any effectiveness.

In a most timely manner it is encouraging to read such an eloquent affirmation that Constance's blog is fulfilling it's mission. All here owe you a heartfelt debt of gratitude, and you deserve a personal "Thank you very much" from me personally for your valued contribution.

You will have to pardon me, though, it has been 15 min since my horrid encounter with soap and water, and these band aids are itchy and driving me nuts. I need to get to scraping them off on the ground, and get some dirt packed back into the scrapemarks.

Please post again when your precious time allows.

I'll leave this parting thought with you, most here know that when you wrestle with pigs you figure out fast that the pigs love to get dirty...

One final note, most important,(fasten your seatbelt) God loves even you, Christ died for you, believe and be saved.

Have a nice day.

HK a.k.a. "The eternal knuckledragger"
 
I have two questions regarding the Passover. I am not Jewish, but would love input from anyone here who may have insight. I have attended a Passover in both Jewish and Messianic Jewish settings.

1. Within the Passover seder, an egg is eaten which represents new birth/spring. Is this from Biblical tradition (if it is in the Bible, please give me a reference). I have seen the egg in pagan rituals representing new birth. Is this an add on or is referenced in the Bible?

2. Is there any reason that Passover should be only observed once/year? As Christians we see Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of Passover. At the Last Supper He declares, "This is my blood of the new covenant," indicating that he was fulfilling the Passover. We take "communion" or "The Lord's Supper" monthly, but this was actually a Passover meal. I Cor. 11 seems to indicate that the early believers celebrated it often "for as often as you eat...". Does anyone know of any reason not to enjoy a Passover seder at other times during the year?

Thanks in advance for your insights.

Terri
 
CORDIS is part of the European Union 7th framework program. CORDIS: the Community Research and Development Information Service. It is the European Unions primary instrument for funding research. The 7th framework program covers a period of seven years.
(2007-2013) It is CORDIS that publishes all the official calls for project proposal. Projects fall under any one of ten themes. Listed within each theme is a more detailed sub-category. I’ve been exploring the category “Social and Economic Concerns”, in particular the “concern” labeled “Security”
My interest was peaked when I saw the “Security” information would include, “Sysyem security; public sector involvement; antiterrorist protection; surveillance systems; personal freedoms and security; and global cooperation.
The following pdf is a presentation of 45 on-going “Security projects” being funded by CORDIS. This pdf doc. is very current,dated June 5, 2009. You can download it to read at your leisure directly from the CORDIS Security Research Homepage:

http://tinyurl.com/mogv62

http://cordis.europa.eu/fp7/security/home_en.html

or skip the homepage and download with:

http://tinyurl.com/mkb8jl

http://ec.europa.eu/
enterprise/security/doc/fp7_project_flyers/
securityresearch-lowdef.pdf

******************************
The ‘Table of Contents’ and page numbers is a list of acronyms which made it a bit of a pain to selectively read pertinent information. It still though, was worth the time it took to scroll through the 100 pages , stopping to read in depth when an acronym such as ADABTS is revealed to be “Automatic Detection of Abnormal Behaviour and Threats in crowded Spaces” , “ iDetecT 4ALL is:
Novel Intruder Detection and Authentication Optical Sensing Technology” (Google iDetecT 4ALL); or “INDECT : Intelligent information system supporting observation,searching and detection for security of citizens in urban environment”.
I have to admit I was stunned as I read, realizing how much deeper and progressed this area of research has advanced beyond what we have imagined and reported here. I now have to unwillingly remind myself that this published information is most definitely only the tip of the iceberg.
Also note from the side column on the above homepage : organized back-to-back with the fourth European Security Research Conference (SRC09- note the poster for the event and it’s symbology) to be held in Stockholm September 29-30, 2009; is the Euro Atlantic Stakeholder Conference hosted by the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency. (EASC09). The EASC09 is October 1-2, 2009 and is in cooperation with the US Department of Homeland Security Science & Technology Directorate. There are links with more detail about the conferences which may be followed beginning with the homepage above.

-Rudi
 
The link above was strictly for the CORDIS :Security Research Homepage.

The complete CORDIS website is found at:

http://tinyurl.com/clzdqq

http://
cordis.europa.eu/home_en.html
 
how come not one word is spoken about the ruins of detroit?

this is what liberalism has purchased

did you do anything to stop it Constance?
if so please tell us?
 
Baal's profile:
About Me

A dedicated Christian who is sick of the highjacking of Christianity by hatemongers who are not even Christans. These would include the members of evangelical and fundamentalist cults diguised as churches.
My Blogs

His blog:
Evangelical Christianity is EVIL

Analysis: a silly teen who makes three spelling errors in two sentences and who believes a dedicated Christian worships Isis. Thinks he will get a blogspot all shook up because he mentions Baal and Isis who he probably found while role playing on a computer game.

Dorothy
 
Dorthy's comment is indicative of the lack of intellect, discernment, proper classical education, understanding of scripture, and the general paranoid Christianist Conspiracy nonsense which pervades this site.

I was a Christian until I grew intelligent. More specifically until I encountered and began reading the blogs of people like Constance, hatemongers who enjoy attacking any one who does not share their belief.

One could reference any number of names of knuckle dragging ignorant knaves and hatemongers: Brannon Howse, Ingrid Schlueter, John Ankerberg, Walter Martin, Jill Martin, Jan Markell, Ron Carlson, Ken Ham, Ed Decker, D. James Kennedy, David Barton, you know, people whose abusive, hateful, and lying rhetoric attack and cause pain to other people. Your Christ would be appalled.

I am not certain how any of you could call yourself a Christian in the face of the hate rhetoric from such famous "Christian" commentators and leader espouse.

I can't and have left Christ for the junk heap.

And Dorthy, before you go trying to write or prove a point you should:

1. Learn to read
2. Buy a book
3. Read it as a test
4. Continue learning to read
5. Enroll in a course in logic
6. Read it as another test
7. Continue to struggle on with learning to read.

As this blog proves, the one world religion can not come soon enough, if only to finally gag and shut up you lot of lunatics.

All praise be to Isis!
 
Baal:

You have a distorted view of the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Jesus who is the Word of God from the beginning:

"33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw—
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." [Matthew 10:33-36 -- Jesus in His own words]

"12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." [Hebrews 4:12]

And, at the Battle of Armageddon, Jesus known as Faithful and True riding on the white horse strikes His foes down with the Word of God (the sword) yet again:

"21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh." [Revelation 19:21]

The good news is that you still have time to repent and accept Jesus Christ as the Saviour He is. For He died once for all -- all who will accept Him (John 3:16).
 
Dear Greg Davis,
Thanks. I guess I was just trying to point out that though Christians have many snares and traps set for them, it's nothing compared to what is in store for the people who try to compete in this world, for the things of this world, using worldly ways and means.

I'd rather be a doorman in the house of the Lord than to "live it up" in the house of the wicked.

Jaclyn @8:52,
Amen. That is truly worth remembering.

Rudi,
You're like Poirot.
 
For Dorthy's further elucidation (it means explanation, Dorthy) Isis is the Mother Goddess of the World.

As you may know, inscribed over her temple was the phrase "I, Isis, am all that has been, that is or shall be; no mortal Man hath ever me unveiled."

She espoused a beautiful philosophy as summed up in Apuleius wherein she is said to have said that "I who rule by my rod...and whose one divinity the whole orb of the earth venerates under a manifold form, by different rites and a variety of appellations."

A philosophy that makes far more sense than the Christian nonsense wherein Christians are constantly arguing over who actually is one because of some variation in belief or practice.

Isis was, however, borrowed by the author's who scribbled out the Gospels. As the Goddess who gave birth to all living things, including the Sun, Isis the Virgin Goddess finds herself portrayed as the Virgin Mary, mother of the Son. An irony and perhaps even a joke by the authors of the Gospels.

As for your "Christianity" and the perversions of it espoused by the Christian Taliban Hatemongers listed in my earlier post, the idea of Salvation in spite of vice via a blood atonement (that of the Sun) rather that Salvation because of virtue, it is a logically flawed viewpoint which fails even the simplest philosophical examination.

The theory of Original Sin is so entirely unsound as to defy the belief of intelligent people. The idea that to be born is a disaster because of the indiscretions of our first parents; that to live is a crime to be expiated only by living miserably; and to die is simply a transition for the believer from the church militant to the church triumphant is so philosophically unsound that it amazes and alarms that any are so foolish as to believe it.

You Dorthy, believe yourself to be a member of the church militant seeking to confront what you consider heterodox beliefs. You and your ilk know no compassion and will attack anyone with whom you disagree. Christ would find you to be a goat.

Plutarch says that Isis held that her doctrines should not be believed on simple faith but examined in their whole by the dictates of reason and logic.

This is far more sensible than the mutilation of Christianity Constance and her fellow bigots preach whereby you must rely on faith in an ancient book written by a motley assortment of people now moldering in the grave.

Someday you may be illumined and understand that which you are now blind to. You have no discernment, lack the ability to understand the Gospels in their true light when you read them, and are lead by false prophets like Constance.

All Praise be to Isis, my she bring her blessings to you.
 
Craig:

As anyone who is well enough read knows, the book of Revelation is not literal, was not written by any "St. John" but probably by a man named Cerinthus who used "John" to gain credibility, and is a highly esoteric work which seems to have been written to throw a monkey wrench into Christian doctrine by preserving many elements of ancient belief and theology under a Christian guise.

There will be no Armageddon, no seven seals, no Apocalypse, your God is not coming for you. You must find him.

Did it ever occur to you to ponder the reason that the reader is beaten over the head withe number seven throughout the Book of Revelation, the significance of this number in the ancient world?

The Apocalypse clearly shows an integration of pagan and Christian symbolism and bears the hallmarks of being written by an initiate into one of the ancient religions.

"...the four beasts fell down and worshiped God and the Lamb"

The lamb was a very ancient symbol of ritual sacrifice for the atonement of sin. Early Christians almost universally used the lamb as a symbol of Christ. It was not until the Quinisext Synod in 692 that the figure of a man was substituted for the lamb. The symbolism of the lamb indicates the influence of Persian religion on Christianity as the Persians were the only people to use the lamb as the first sign of their Zodiac. The Greeks and Egyptians venerated the lamb and placed rams horns on on the foreheads of many of their Gods. Thor carried a hammer made from a rams horn.

And so on. Perhaps with more learning and some illumination on the subject you might understand those subjects about which you post.
 
~~~"Baal on Baal"~~~

"I was a Christian until I grew intelligent." ...
"Constance is a mentally disturebed individual espousing a mutilated and distorted view of "Christianity"."
----------------------------------- "I was a Christian until I grew intelligent." ...
"This blog amply demonstrates that most people who call themselves “Christians” are little more than petty simple minded bigots, ignorant of theology, lacking in an appropriately classical education, with a stunning lack of discernment, and a complete disregard for their fellow human beings."
-----------------------------------
"I was a Christian until I grew intelligent." ...
"Isis is a Goddess worthy of reverent worship and offerings unlike the “Christ” this blog's rather mentally stunted author professes."
-----------------------------------
"I was a Christian until I grew intelligent." ...
"Not that all who call themselves “Christians” are knuckle dragging cretins, many are so malformed that their knuckles don’t reach the ground."
-----------------------------------
"I was a Christian until I grew intelligent." ...
"Dorthy's comment is indicative of the lack of intellect, discernment, proper classical education, understanding of scripture, and the general paranoid Christianist Conspiracy nonsense which pervades this site."
-----------------------------------
"I was a Christian until I grew intelligent." ...
"More specifically until I encountered and began reading the blogs of people like Constance, hatemongers who enjoy attacking any one who does not share their belief."
-----------------------------------
"I was a Christian until I grew intelligent." ...
"One could reference any number of names of knuckle dragging ignorant knaves and hatemongers... you know, people whose abusive, hateful, and lying rhetoric attack and cause pain to other people."
-----------------------------------
"I was a Christian until I grew intelligent." ...
"I am not certain how any of you could call yourself a Christian in the face of the hate rhetoric ..."
[***"Constance is a mentally disturebed individual espousing a mutilated and distorted view of "Christianity"." (Baal:1:50 p.m.)
***"You should avoid the ignorance and lies which you peddle with a view to lining your pockets." (Baal:1:50 p.m.)
***"...“Christians” are little more than petty simple minded bigots, ignorant of theology, lacking in an appropriately classical education, with a stunning lack of discernment, and a complete disregard for their fellow human beings." (Baal 1:50 p.m.)
***"...unlike the “Christ” this blog's rather mentally stunted author professes." (Baal 1:50 p.m.)
***" Not that all who call themselves “Christians” are knuckle dragging cretins, many are so malformed that their knuckles don’t reach the ground." (Baal 1:50 p.m.)
*** "...if only to finally gag and shut up you lot of lunatics." (Baal 6:05 p.m.)]
-----------------------------------
"I was a Christian until I grew intelligent." ...
"I can't and have left Christ for the junk heap."
-----------------------------------
"I was a Christian until I grew intelligent." ...
"All praise be to Isis!"
-----------------------------------

Baal in his own words.
***********************************
HK (still the eternal knuckledragger)
 
Baal, there is hope for you. You must have just learned to use spellcheck, though you have yet to learn how to spell "Dorothy."

Let's not trade information on knowledge of primitive paganism and the occult. It's obvious you aren't advanced enough to throw in the word crosstianity.

Go back to role-playing. Don't try coping with reality yet. You're not ready. You might try telling your little friend Bjorn that at the age of 39 he needs to leave playmates like you behind and grow up.

Dorothy
 
Baal:

1. My law Degree, Class of 1975, Detroit College of Law, now known as Michigan State University is hardly bogus. You can find easily with a google search on line that I am a Michigan attorney in good standing.

I will address the balance of your bogus concerns later, as soon as I have calmed down enough after your libelous allegations about my professional status.

"Baal" is a good name for you!

CONSTANCE
 
Dorothy,

The saddest part (or perhaps not since you will not know) is that when, after a long life, you pass from this earth, you will pass into eternal darkness and nothing.

Unless you become serious, repent of your serious error, living for every word of the hatemongers, and reconcile your view of religion, there is nothing for you but oblivion.

May Isis bring her light and blessings upon you.
 
Of Baal, let it be said:

"They went out from us, (assuming even that part of his story is true, which I sincerely doubt) but they were not of us, for if they were with us, they would have remained with us . . ."


CONSTANCE
 
Constance,

Anyone can buy a degree from almost any university, see for example Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama.
 
Baal,

While you continue to bash christians for their lack of "knowledge", and hatefull tactics. You spew your own lack of knowledge and hatefull rhetoric. Nice work hypocrite. Just to add, before you continue bashing Dorothy for her christian views, a little history of the woman you bash, would be a wise topic for you to catch up on. Dorothy is jewish, not christian. So before we continue to have to correct your assumptions, you may wish to look into the people you fling
hate towards. After all I would hate to have you condemn someone simply based on your ludicrous views, or perhaps you would be more comfortable simply going back to reading Blavatsky or Bailey, as they seem to echo your hate perfectly!

JD

Even though I assume you hate all here equally, I think you'll find most here will forgive that, even if you don't want them too!
 
Baloney Man says:

Dorothy is not part of "church elite." Not even close. Generally, people belonging to this so called "church elite" are Christian. Total baloney!
 
Baal smells like a fake. Fake "former Christian", fake Isis worshipper", fake "bad speller". Being so far "over the top" with outrageous comments only exposes someone who is here for no other reason than to play games. A serious pagan wouldn't be wasting his time here bantering back and forth. Baal's comments read very similar to observed interaction insigated on another blog I read.
Don't waste time dialoging with darkness. -Rudi
 
See Dorothy, that's what you get for being mistaken for a Christian.

psssst, baal... she's Jewish.
Wow, your pagan face must be red now, huh?
 
"For it's One! Two! Three strikes Your Out! at the Old Baal Game!

FOTM-Walt
 
Rich Peterson has a new blog posting up. I'm reading it now.

"Lifting the Burden off the Media: the Alliance of Civilizations' Global Expert Finder"

Thanks Rich! - Rudi
 
Forgot the link to Rich's blog
'A Time, Times, and a Half a Time'

http://www.pineline.blogspot.com/
 
Constance @ 7:20pm:

You chose one of the scriptures I was going to use; but, I will also use the verse prior:

"18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. [1 John 2:18-19]

@Baal:

" 3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." [2 Corinthians 4:3-4]

"25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

...27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong." [1 Corinthians 1:25, 27]

18Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" [1 Corinthians 3:18-19]

Regarding the Book of Revelation and its authorship: rather than try to reason/argue with you, I guess we'll see how it all comes out in the end.
 
Thanks Rudi,

The blog post is good and I wish I had written it. I copied a piece from Atlas Shrugs did a nice job summarized the Alliance's attacks on free speech.

Rich
 
@ Baal:

While the number seven does appear quite often in Revelation it also figures prominently throughout the whole of scripture beginning in Genesis with the seven day week. In the NIV there are 542 references in the Bible to the number seven with 35 of those from the Book of Revelation. The number seven represents completion and/or perfection.
 
Here's betting "Baal" is Bjorn's little 22 year old girlfriend! Maybe she needs to trim the horn off her head!
 
Dorothy's religion is beside the point: she (and all the rest of you read the ravings of Constance Crumby a noted quack who sees end times conspiracies in every Christian Bookstore. That makes Dorothy deceived along with the rest of you.

Reading Constance's rambling will rot your brains (it seems to be well underway in several cases).

Craig you miss the point and thereby prove it. The number seven has great Qabbalahistic significance. The Old Testament is full of Qabbalah and while many argue the significance of this fact it is undeniable.

Some Qabbalah permeates the New Testament but no where in such quantity and detail than as in the Book of Revelation. The author of this book was fully conversant with Qabbalah and Gematria and has filled the book of Revelation from one end to the other with it.

For the Pythagoreans the number 7 represented the Heptad, the completed cycle, universal power, due measure, and perhaps most significantly, completion. It is no accident that it appears in the Book of Revelation so often. The author was very conversant in Qabbalah.

Images of Kronos and Zeus occur in the opening chapter. In the second and third chapter "St. John" brings the injunctions from the Alpha and Omega to the seven churches in Asia. Seven Qabbalahistic rungs on Jacob's ladder are here alluded to.

You have the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse. In very ancient tradition each of the four elements (and their attendant characteristics) are represented by horses bearing the name of the God over that element. The first horse was Jupiter and represented all of the bodies in heaven and fire. The second horse was Juno and was black but became translucent in sunlight and represented air. The third horse was Neptune and represented water. The fourth horse was Vesta and represented earth.

So we have the four alchemical elements, earth, air, fire, and water.

And it continues for the entire book with various Sacred Numbers, references to ancient mysticism, and etc. The inclusion of the Book of Revelation introduces volumes of ancient religion and cosmology into Christianity.

St. Jerome, Luther, and Erasmus had doubts as to the Christian nature of the book and its inclusion in the Christian Bible.

And yet you follow the ravings of an end times conspiracy theorist who regards it as gospel.

Nuts.

Oh and Constance honey, the word Baal simply means lord in Hebrew and Canaanitish and occurs throughout the Old Testament in various forms mainly as an honorific for a king or great man. It does not refer to any specific God. Although one could understand you missing that point while racing from one Christian bookstore to the next in order to prove a conspiracy between Christian publishers, Churches, and authors theorizing on alternate spirituality.
 
Hi Folks, has anyone heard of 'The Truth Project'?

http://www.thetruthproject.org/

It was mentioned to a friend today and on the face of it, it looks good. Has anyone been involved with it in their church or groups?

Thanks for any feedback.

~K~
 
@Baal:

Qabbalah/Kabbala is nothing but a perversion of the Truth of the Bible. This trick -- perverting the Truth of the Word of God -- is as ancient as the serpent in the Garden of Eden. However, I'm sure I will not be able to convince you of this as your mind is obviously made up. We can continue arguing this back and forth; but, you won't be able to prove your side; and, you'll feel the same about mine.
 
Regardless of your view of Qabbalah there is no debating the fact that the author's of the Old Testament in particular, the New Testament to a lesser degree, and the Book of Revelation in particular were conversant with it and included it in the Books which now reside in the Christian Bible, Old and New Testament.

This is why Jerome, Luther, and others were concerned about the Book of Revelations which is rife with it.

Your particular view of its significance is of no concern to me. But please find me a biblical scholar of not who denies its existence in the Bible regardless of what they think of it.
 
make that "note"
 
Baal:

OK, so now your view is that the Qabbalah/Kabbala influenced the writers of Old and New Testament. Just when is the birth of Qabbalah? Was it with Pythagoras?

Your argument makes no sense. If Bible scholars were concerned of the supposed Qabbalist influences of the Book of Revelation, why would that matter if -- as you assert -- the Old Testament was supposedly influenced by it as well?
 
Perhaps you fail to understand the nature of Qabbalah and the even more esoteric Gematria. There are many definitions of Qabbalah but one asserts that God created all things and is in all things. By studying what God has created we can better understand God. Language, letters, and letter forms are asserted to also be the creation of God and the study of these letters, words, letter forms, etc. can shed light on the mind of God. Qabbalah is an attempt to see the patterns of the mind of God in the Word of God.

It quickly becomes clear that innumerable patterns occur over and over in the Old Testament. The theological implications are debated fiercely and people disagree about what if anything these patterns represent and how they got there.

But the author of the Book of Revelation was clearly familiar with them and seemingly purposely incorporated them, along with various aspects of pagan cosmology into his writing. This is why scholars were concerned with the book. The uncertain nature of the author also deepens the ambiguity of the situation.

Surely you are aware that the mythical idea that somehow 666 is the "mark of the beast" comes from Gematria, an esoteric subset of Qabbalah which deals with the substitution of numbers for letters. This comes from the fact that in many if not most ancient languages letters were also numbers.

The case holds for Greek as well as Hebrew and it was Kircher using a list of all of the names given for the Antichrist derived by Iranaeus who demonstrated that converting the Greek lettering of all the names to numbers (which unfortunately I can't reproduce here in Greek) using Gematria all add up to 666. This is perhaps the classic example of the use of Qabbalah in the New Testament.

It is also interesting to note that Christian prayers end "In Jesus Name" and when "Jesus Name" in Hebrew is worked in Gematria it also adds up to 666.

So I might ask you, does it not seem to you like the author is up to some sort of game in the Book of Revelation? There really are not that many choices. Is it all just random coincidence? Was it placed there by the mind of God? Or was the author playing with esoteric concepts for some reason most people (including myself) do not really understand?

This is all very interesting and it is widely known to Qabbalahists that Jesus in the Greek treated through Gematria also adds up to another sacred number, namely 888.

It is all very nearly endless, the 144,000 who were to be preserved against the tribulation continues it. Using a facet of Gematria and adding the digits in 144,000 you get the number 9. This is the Pythagorean number symbolic of initiated man.

I'm not saying I believe it has any significance. But it is certainly there, I can't make it go away.

As far as the age of Qabbalah, Rabbinic scholars and historians believe that it is as old as the Jewish religion.
 
Baal,

Congratulations, today is a milestone for you. You have written about ten times the bablings on this blog as you have on your own blog, your one and only post there was June 1, 2008.

My biggest curiousity about you is, how on earth did you find the mental discipline to tear yourself away from your karaoke machine and the floor to ceiling mirror to spend so much time and wasted effort to inflick you fabulous pysche upon people you have such disdain for.

One would surmise from what you have said so far, that you could spend your prescious time burning incense to a carved clothespin painted with a happy face, while chanting to a good Snoop Dog rap cd.

Get a life, please, (ebay might have one with a low reserve) and leave us alone.

W.C.Feilds said it best in one of his movies so I leave you with this quote from him: "Go away kid you bother me..."

HK
 
Baal:

The one definition you use above for Qabbalah is panentheism. This is NOT what is taught in the Bible.

You confuse what God has created and what God ALLOWS. For example, did God create murder or does he allow it?

You wrote: "Surely you are aware that the mythical idea that somehow 666 is the "mark of the beast" comes from Gematria, an esoteric subset of Qabbalah which deals with the substitution of numbers for letters. This comes from the fact that in many if not most ancient languages letters were also numbers."

I do not personally believe we come up with the 'number of the beast' in this manner. Nor do I believe we are to use numerology in the manner you wrote. Anyone can choose to make any number mean something using any arbitrary means. That doesn't make it so.

Regarding the age/birth of Qabbalah: you cannot find any definitive reference for it as there is no proof. We can argue whether the Biblical accounts came first or whether Qabbalism came first or even if they were contemporaneous. But, we'd be just doing the chicken and egg thing.

However, you initially spoke of the Pythagoreans (Pythagoras was born sometime between 580 to 572 BC) when you referenced Qabbalah and this group came about well after the mathematician's death -- obviously this was well after many Old Testament texts.
 
I have a lot of experience dealing with people like this. They, like Satan, sneak in Christian groups which they do by telling people they are "Christian". Like Satan, they use scripture. And like Satan, they blaspheme the Holy One and the Holy Word of God. What I typically do with them is what they hate most—ignore them.

These people have only one purpose: to upset the church. They think that if they can get someone to agrue with their foolishness ehey have proven themselves superior and Christianity vulnerable. Many of them are of above average IQ, but have no WQ (Wisdom Quotient). Like flies in the room they are a constant annoyance; and once you destroy one, another comes along as if they are part of some organized army.

I have been following this blog for over a year now because Constance’s book (Hidden Dangers) has illuminated my mind as to what is REALLY happening in the world today. However, what she is saying is nothing new. Many of us in this chat room (with its flies) have picked up a book, and we have read it, and we have learned that Satan’s CONSPIRACY began in the garden of Eden where he deceived Eve and tempted Adam to eat of the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil so they could be like GOD.
It is the same today. Satan is extremely busy with a host of demons to deceive as many people he can into believing his lies which include: the Bible is false, the Book of Revelation is not literal (at least the parts that are not symbolic visions), Jesus is not God, there are other gods like Isis (which is a demonic idol), and other deceptions that cater to man's pride.

Satan is not dead. He is still at work, and Constance Cumby has, through her investigative savvy and brave faithfulness to her Master, Jesus, found the top tier of Satan’s human hierarchy of the world system.

This is no conspiracy. In many places the Bible warns us of the great "conspiracy" we face today including in Ephesians 6:10-12 which says: “Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.”
Christians can turn many false Christians and atheists towards God through our love and patience. May God have mercy on His enemies, and may we pray for them to repent and turn away from their demon-inspired deception.

Praise the Lord!

Greg Davis
 
This comment has been removed by the author.
 
Re: Passover.

There is no single agreed upon symbolism for the egg. The Haggadah does not mention it.
The Seder plate was formalized in the 16th Century.

Torah requires a Passover fast in Spring, with exact specification, where it falls on the holiday calendar. which is already full of fasts, and rituals.
 
HK:

I take no offense at your comments and lack of proper grammar. You live in a deception fueled by the crackpot ravings of people like Ms. Crumby. You follow someone with a warped and twisted perversion of the gospel who writes and speaks to countless people left so ignorant that they know no better.

Christianity has long been the enemy of the development of the intellect and Constance and the readers of this blog demonstrate this in nearly every post. Jesus was not so afraid of knowledge as those of you who follow the false an distorted Jesus Constance preaches. Perhaps you should open a book, read, and learn.

And I said "a book" not the internet sites of evangelical whack jobs.
 
Craig,

I fear that I now must point this out: too many years of reading Ms. Crumby's lunacy have your capacity for rational thought and your intellect sorely hurting. You obviously do not comprehend what you read. This might also be an indictment of our educational system though being unfamiliar with where you went to grammar school I can not say so with authority.

You have taken my words, misunderstood them, plugged them in to the brainwashing you receive at sites like this (and it smells like you listen to Brannon Howse too)and repeated them like a mess of incorrectly sorted Tarot cards.

You very serious could use some work on your logic and comprehension skills. Being a High School teacher I might recommend that you start with the classics as these make both an excellent educational foundation (which you seem to lack) and are good at improving comprehension. I might suggest starting with Herodotus since I am partial to him as a History teacher. He can be tedious though. Virgil might be more to your taste though. Alternately, Cesar's writings are quite good and cover in some detail the religions he encountered on his path to conquest so this you might find of interest, especially as he offers one of the only first hand account of the Druids and the society and structure.
 
Greg Davis,

"I have a lot of experience dealing with people like this.I have a lot of experience dealing with people like this."

You mean people who are sane? The ones who do not see the non-existent satanic conspiracy to destroy fine upstanding Christians and American society and "values" that can only be found by a mutilation of Biblical text?

You mean people who are not afraid to tell fundamentalists, evangelicals and other extreme believers that following the rants of an end time believing one world religion they are coming to destroy us with yoga conspiracy lunatic is not good for your mental health (which I see from the paranoia in your post already suffers)?

Nice to meet you sir!

Constance, you might wish to offer health insurance to cover your readers who suffer the deleterious effects of the lunacy you scribble.

Now Constance, I would agree with you on one thing. C Street is a horrid perversion of Christianity and it is alarming that so many Senators and Congressman are into it. I am a lifelong member of the GOP (you folks would scream RINO at me, but heh, does not bother me one bit) and the fact that so many Republicans are involved sickens me.

The rest of your report gets a little wacky.
 
Hey, everyone . . .

Please do not encourage Baal.

He is clearly here on this blog for one purpose and one purpose only . . . to be a DISRUPTIVE FORCE.

Please, do not ALLOW him to waste any more of our valuable time . . . which is clearly DISTRACTING us from our mission to expose the New Age Movement / New World Order / One World Government / One World Religion.

Please STOP . . . cease and desist . . . from engaging him in any more dialogue.

At some point, he will do one of two things: 1) get tired of talking to himself and crawl back under his rock . . . or, 2) move on to another blog and annoy THEM.
 
Agreed?

OK, now let's see where were we? Oh, yes - posting information exposing the New Age Movement . . .
 
Baal:

So, where has there been a break in my logic? You use the classic trick of the smokescreen of discrediting the writer/speaker rather than deal with the substantive issues put forth. Then, you continue to libel Constance. And, you call US hatemongers. What you've done mostly here is spew your own brand of hatred while I've at least attempted to be civil.

We'll see which of us has the correct theology on Judgment Day...
 
VACCINATIONS: DEADLY IMMUNITY

http://www.infowars.com/vaccinations-deadly-immunity/
 
Dear Craig:

Please just ignore Baal.

It's just a total waste of your valuable time.
 
Inspiring article in today's Spirit Dail:

Do you have crows in your life? We recall driving recently and being distracted by a crow that bounded on the street, and then another that bounced in a strange manner -- in a similar attention-getting fashion -- just across the way, as if to steal our attention.

The temptation, of course, was to switch the eyes to them and off the road and paying too much notice to those birds could have caused an accident. Easily. There was two-way traffic. We were also approaching a crossroads.

Call this a "law of the crows": The devil often tries to divert our focus for a crucial moment and often does so as we approach a threshold or intersection.

A threshold of holiness. A threshold of advancement.

Often he works to trip us up not by way of a frontal attack (which is what we always expect) but in the way of a side show. It can be a squirrel. It can be another car. In life, it is usually something that is none of our business.

He comes at the periphery. He is barely in view. He seeks to simply sway your glance long enough to cause mayhem (and a wrong decision).

We see evil when it causes us anxiety or depression or anger or even rage -- when it divides us, when it slanders, when it leads to sin, when we regress spiritually. Those are times we can discern its direct effects. But just as often the devil attacks through distraction. It especially happens near those crossroads.

He is the great deceiver, and a ploy of a deceiver is misdirection (ask any magician).

Evil is where evil lies and so we watch at the periphery of the road for what is peculiar, what's artificial, what is too spectacular. It is where you find falsehood. It has a sales pitch. It is diversionary. The devil is a liar and he lies in wait (like the snake that he is). He twists the truth just slightly enough for you not to notice.

Don't always expect him to come in an obvious manner.

Watch for his suddenness.

How many times has the devil diverted you? How many times has he made you pay attention to something trivial when there were more important matters? How much time has he caused you to waste? How many times in your life have you missed opportunities or failed to note a problem because you were paying attention to something else -- because you were distracted? The cock crows thrice and so does the crow.

We all have intersections in life -- more than we realize -- and we approach them in the right fashion only when we have clear vision and are looking (through prayer) straight ahead, when we don't take our eyes off the ball (or the road).
 
Anon. 5:22
Passover is a Feast, not a Fast.
You've missed the point, and yet you speculate and make a few generalizations which only show that you don't know anything about Passover.
God is full of tender mercies, not difficult and wearisome tasks.
Passover is a solemn yet joyous rememberance.
To say that the Torah is "full of fasts and rituals" is
just wrong. Why not just hold your peace if you don't know about something as importand as:

Exodus 12, Leviticus 23 and 25 ?

It sounds like you think that God is a hard and cruel master. He isn't.
 
If bawl is actually a high school teacher, it just confirms everything that Charlotte Iserbyt has been saying.
To think that a nutcase like that could be teaching one of my kids makes my skin crawl.
Thanks for the heads up.
"Ever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth."
and
"Professing themselves to be wise they became fools"
 
k--
On the Truth Project... I don't know much about it. As you probably know it is produced by Focus on the Family. You can do a google search of this blog and find some information on Focus on the Family. There are some association problems there.

Our church showed this on Wednesday Nights about a year ago. I didn't get to see it because I work in the children's ministry.

We had people leave over it and people start coming more because of it.

You might look around http://www.answersingenesis.org/
To my knowledge they have similar material and not any association problems.
 
PS Glenn beck is doing a segment right now on Walter Cronkite and his love for a "global governance"

I will post a link if it is included in his newsletter
 
Terri,
The egg is traditional and probably developed some time after Babylon. It is said to commemorate the destruction of the Temples. In my family, we don't use it on our Passover plater. We tend to stick to the biblical references..but I don't criticize anyone who does. Some have said it's a sign of fertility and therefore pagan, like Easter eggs.. could be, but I just avoid it. Here's the biblical instructions:

Ex. 12:8 ‘They shall eat the flesh that same night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

The lamb of course is Yeshua, so we do not need to slay a lamb. I happen to like lamb for Passover dinner, but it's not a "sacrifice" just a culinary preference. Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews have differences about the Passover meal, but this is more tradition than anything. I don't think we need to get bogged down in these details of traditions. The underlying meaning of who the Lamb represents is the most important.

As for why Pesach is celebrated once a year, it's because that's what God instructed in Leviticus 23. Paul in Corinthians clearly talks about celebrating "the feast" not a weekly communion service. It's one of his mo'ed ( appointed times):

1Cor. 5:7-8 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, anot with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Communion came out of the Catholic celebration of Eucharist and I think there is a confusion about the texts that referring to "breaking bread" and Passover.. These are two separate things. Breaking bread means to have a meal together, not eat a little wafer.

There is another weekly breaking of bread and cup of wine which is celebrated on Shabbat traditionally. There is no command in the Bible to break bread and eat wine, but Jews have been doing this for centuries and it's to thank God for His provision of bread and fruit from the vine, and the bread is leavened, whereas unleavened bread is commanded for the feast of Passover.

This is one of the traditions that I think really has a lot of meaning, because it is a way of setting apart Shabbat, from the rest of the week and remembering where our provision, both spiritual and material comes from. It's a great time to bless one another as a family and truly cease from our own labor and remember what Yeshua has accomplished for us from the foundation of the earth.

Shabbat is also to commemorate that God rested on the 7th day and when the children of Israel came out of Egypt, God said to gather manna for 6 days but to rest on the 7th day. Yeshua, the Word who became flesh, is that bread that God was teaching Israel about in the Wilderness. On Shabbat there are 2 loaves, signifying the double portion. We can rest because it is the Lord who provides for us.

When we say Passover we are talking also about the 7 days following Passover, where Unleavened bread is eaten, but technically this feast is called Unleavened Bread in the Bible, but since it is intimately connected with the Passover, it is called Passover too. There is also first fruits within this feast from which we count 7 weeks to Shavuot( Pentecost).

Passover celebration commemorates the liberation from slavery in Egypt and the bread of affliction commemorates when the Israelites had to leave Egypt in a hurry. Passover commemorates the sacrifice of Yeshua who actually did die on the feast of Passover and was the "bread with leaven" ( sinless" and the first fruits of the resurrection which is another feast contained within the 8 day long feast of Passover and Unleavened bread, so Passover commemorates our liberation from the slavery of sin because of His perfect sacrifice and crossing over to "new life" in Him, as well as the Exodus from Egypt.

So why should we only celebrate Pesach once a year?

contd
 
contd
Yeshua said:

Matt. 5:17-19 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not 1the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Torah until all is accomplished.“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least ain the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

If we want to be called least in the kingdom of heaven than we will not teach all that the Torah says ( Torah means teaching, instructions as well as legal aspects so I translated the Greek word nomos to be Torah). Yeshua didn't come to fulfill and stop our celebration, but to continue to fill up to the full measure until it is overflowing with meaning... ( better translation of the Greek word).

The mo'ed are actual appointments with God where He promises to show up if we show up. These feasts are for training us in His righteousness and all are filled with meaning, prophetically for past and future events, so it would seem to me that if we want to know God, we would want to know Him according to how HE revealed Himself. The Scriptures are how He revealed Himself.

The idea of changing God's calendar is not from Him, it's from man's traditions. These traditions have been going on for centuries and it's hard for people to recognize that or change, but that doesn't mean that they are God's instructions.

Gen. 1:14 ¶ Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;

The word for seasons in biblical Hebrew is "mo'ed", so God made the sun and moon to govern His calendar, which is sacred time. The Biblical calendar is solar/lunar.

They are also "signs" which refers to the prophetic aspect of these feasts. If we want to be watchmen, we should be participating in the calendar given to us which teaches us to "hear His voice" and "obey His instructions". "Hearing and doing" is how we learn to walk. It's not an abstract thing where we sit back and just watch and analyze.

This is why James says "faith without works is dead" . The works are confirmation of our faith in His Word.

Hope that helps a little.

Joyce
 
One more thing. By walking in accordance with God's instructions and observing the Biblical feasts, we not only have the blessing of "meeting with Him", but we also can watch for the prophetic fulfillment of the Fall feasts. The Spring feasts signify Yeshua's first coming the and the Fall feasts His Second.

Remember He says not one "jot or tittle" of His Word will pass away. He will come back during the Feast of Trumpets, or Yom T'ruah, which is the feast of blowing and refers to a series of blasts of the shofar, a ram's horn. At the sound of the Last Trumpet, the dead in Messiah will rise and all who are alive meet Him in the air. This is what Christians commonly call the "rapture" but if we analyze careful the trumpet judgements of Revelations we will see that the Last Trumpet blast is after the Tribulation which corresponds with Yeshua's words:

Matt. 24:29-36 “But immediately after the atribulation of those days bTHE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND cTHE STARS WILL FALL from 1the sky, and the powers of 1the heavens will be shaken.
“And then athe sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see bthe SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. “And aHe will send forth His angels with bA GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His 1celect from dthe four winds, from one end of the sky to the other “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, 1recognize that 2He is near, right aat the 3door. “Truly I say to you, athis 1generation will not pass away until all these things take place. “aHeaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. “But aof that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

The reason that no one knows the day or the hour is because Yom Truah occurs on a new moon and requires Two Witnesses.. Are you starting to see how Revelations corresponds to the the Fall Feasts?

Yom Kippur:

Zech. 12:10 ¶ “I will apour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, 1the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have bpierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one cmourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

This is corporate repentance..

and the next the wedding feast of the Lamb or Sukkot which Yeshua will "tabernacle with us" . This also referred to Ancient Israel dwelling in booths in the desert with God among them.

Zech. 14:16-17 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will ago up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the bFeast of Booths. And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.

These are not "Jewish feasts". They are the Lord's feasts and anyone who is His, is invited to meet Him at these appointed times. Judaism has preserved them, along with Torah, so we are indebted to the Jewish people for this, but they have also been gatekeepers at times not inviting the nations into these feasts unless they "join Judaism". That's not the point. Many of my people are realizing this in our day and as our eyes are opened, we are sharing this. This is because we are living in prophetic days. The dividing wall has been brought down of Second Temple Judaism and God has made us one new man, so the nations are called to enter into the covenant with all of Israel.

This is the true shalom that Yeshua will usher in with His reign from Jerusalem.

Joyce
 
http://tinyurl.com/lbsv9y

Constance,
Take one of the above and play it.
Sing the lyrics to yourself, or out loud.
The music is Beethoven, I think
Here are the lyrics from any hymnal
verse 1 ]
Angels we have heard on high
Sweetly singing o'r the plains
And the mountains in reply
Echoing their joyous strains
Glo-ria
In excelsis Deo

My grandmother from Lithuania used to just bust out with the chorus from time to time. She used to sing in a chorus / choir.
I declare the act of singing it is an instant blessing.
Joy is a Christian thing.
 
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Joyce,
A while back, Dorothy was asking you why you came here.
You never really answered her, but I know why.
I prayed to God for someone like you and God answered my prayer.
Now you both know.
 
Amen, Paul
 
Thanks, Joyce. I appreciate your answer. I have been leading a Bible study on the the blood covenant for young adults. (This generation is woefully Biblically illiterate. Some of these folks have fallen for the Emergent lie that salvation through faith in Jesus' death and resurrection is "not all that black and white"--exact quote from one of our youth)

We have been looking at the reason behind the necessity of the blood--Adam and Eve's sin and God's shedding of blood to clothe them with skins. We also looked at the problem with Cain and Abel--one was a sacrifice of the field the other of blood.

Our next lesson will be on the threshold covenant at the Passover and how Jesus fulfilled that. Eventually we will also look at the covenant with Abraham and Yom Kippur.

At the conclusion of our study, I was considering having a Passover seder with the intent of seeing first hand how Jesus fulfills the Passover in the seder. Any suggestions on how to accomplish my goal?

Terri
 
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I would like to say one more thing, if I may.

I believe we can help each other in this blog if we all pray for each other. I beleive we will come under spiritual attack for contributing to this blog, so we could all use earnest prayer for strength, wisdom and peace. Let's especially pray for Sis. Constance.

I am praying for everyone as I read your comments, and I could greatly use your prayers.

Thank You
 
Reading the reply to Dorothy and couldn't help but notice the symbolism used which seems so terribly similar to what we have seen from "Farmer" / Far More / Bjorn on both of his blogspots, "Blue God Star" (which you can pull down my archived copy from "presentations for downloading" and "What Bjorn Thinks", a spot he tells us is Christian, but his occult friends, "Horns/Kristos". I don't want to think it, but I can't help but suspect Bjorn is back of this, if not the actual author.

This is the symbolism I noticed:

"For the Pythagoreans the number 7 represented the Heptad, the completed cycle, universal power, due measure, and perhaps most significantly, completion. It is no accident that it appears in the Book of Revelation so often. The author was very conversant in Qabbalah.

Images of Kronos and Zeus occur in the opening chapter. In the second and third chapter "St. John" brings the injunctions from the Alpha and Omega to the seven churches in Asia. Seven Qabbalahistic rungs on Jacob's ladder are here alluded to.

You have the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse. In very ancient tradition each of the four elements (and their attendant characteristics) are represented by horses bearing the name of the God over that element. The first horse was Jupiter and represented all of the bodies in heaven and fire. The second horse was Juno and was black but became translucent in sunlight and represented air. The third horse was Neptune and represented water. The fourth horse was Vesta and represented earth.

So we have the four alchemical elements, earth, air, fire, and water. . . ."

Constance
 
GOVERNMENT SWINE FLU ADVISOR ON VACCINE MAKER PAYROLL

URL to article: http://www.infowars.com/government-swine-flu-advisor-on-vaccine-maker-payroll/
 
Paul,
Yes, you get it!

Greg,
Nice to meet you. You are correct in saying that all of Torah is important. Torah is God's instructions for all of life, including first and foremost our relationship to Him and then to one another. It's not a question of either or.. It's all God's Word. I think that because historically Christianity has payed attention to love God and love your neighbor there has been an emphasis on some of the things that have neglected, and if we love God and our neighbor, the rest of Torah is commentary, as the famous rabbi pre-Yeshua said.

It certainly helps to understand where God's coming from when He tells us to cease and obey the Shabbat. It doesn't mean we ignore a sick person.. Yeshua healed sick on the Sabbath and was accused by a certain school of Pharisees of breaking it. Life was the higher value. In Israel today, doctors are allowed to work on the Sabbath. He knew this because He was the Word become flesh, so He was not breaking Sabbath, but rather commenting on it..

These were kind of typical rabbinic arguments of the Second Temple period, and it helps a lot to understand this when reading the gospels. Yeshua was very much a part of His day, but of course these things were used as an excuse to come against Him, by a certain group of religious leaders.

Meeting God on His mo'ed is loving God, and celebrating them in community is loving your neighbor. Most of Torah commands can be summed up under Loving God and Loving your neighbor.

The verse you cited about tithing was a correction to a group of religious leaders who were using tithing as an excuse to not honor their parents which was one of the Ten Words. Yeshua was often correcting poor interpretation of the Torah which was being used to neglect parents. Again, the value of human life was more important than tithing dill and cumin.

Joyce
 
Terri,
Yes, you are right in saying young people are getting sucked into a lot of rubbish, and I think it's because of the neglect of the whole counsel of God's word. Torah is God's instructions for holiness and tells us "not to do what the nations do, not to follow their gods". Emergents are being seduced by pagan practices and it's very dangerous.

It would probably be helpful to pick up one of the Messianic books that explains the elements of the seder. Seder just means "order". As you eat of each element of the seder platter, you can really focus on the meanings and talk about your personal experiences before and after coming to know Yeshua. ( i.e. slavery v.s. freedom) This makes the seder meaningful in a very personal way and will help them to see the connections between Yeshua's sacrifice and our freedom.

There's lots of materials online or through Amazon.com. You can evaluate the differences and see which fits best for your situation. By the way matzah means "all squeezed out". I want to say that tradition in and of itself is not bad if it points us to Yeshua. If it takes away, then I think we should avoid it. The whole Passover seder can be tied to Yeshua. You will see the cups in His meal with His disciples.. There is no lamb in the gospel description because He was slain the next day.

The next celebration of Passover on our calendar begins the evening of the 29th of March 2010. That is the biblical beginning of the year. The unblemished lamb was taken on the 10 Aviv, slaughtered on the 14th and the feast of Unleavened bread begins on the 15th at sundown.

Yeshua's meal with His disciples was not the actual Passover meal, most likely, because in the Gospel of John it says.

John 19:31 Then the Jews, because it was athe day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

This is referring to the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread which is called a Sabbath also. It would have been impossible for Yeshua to be crucified the day after the real Passover seder because that would have been the sabbath of Unleavened Bread in which it would have been forbidden to crucify Him as it is also a sabbath.. There are several explanations of what the "last supper" actually was, but Yeshua was crucified at the same time the lambs were being slaughtered at the Temple.

This is confusing to many Christians when they read the gospels because they don't realize that there are two sabbaths within the feast, the regular weekly sabbath and the sabbath of Unleavened Bread, the 15th Aviv. ( Lev 23) Sabbath simply means to cease.

You might not want to get too caught up in these technical details about dates but focus on the connection between Egypt and slavery and sin, Yeshua and freedom. Egypt is a narrow place where we cannot worship God.



Blessings,
Joyce
 
I just came from looking at Baal's claimed website. Since she/he/it has so little posted, it's difficult to learn more -- might be just one more insignificant cog in a neo-Pagan network yearning for fame and fortune at our expense.

Constance
 
Dawn - thank you for your reply. I'm not familiar with the Focus on the Family ministry or associations.

I'll look into the other site you suggest - many thanks.

~K~
 
Kinda of interesting to watch Contance's blo go Baalistic!
 
Joyce - thank you kindly for posting about the feasts.

~K~
 
My oh my...it looks like "Baal" is perhaps a sock-puppet for "C" or maybe one of "Bjorn's" (is that his real name...hmmmm...I wonder) other creepy friends....As others have said don't feed the pesky troll.
 
-Sorry, off topic-

This is so depressing. People care to comment on it?

The Dark Side of Joseph

http://www.deceptionbytes.com/content/dark-side-joseph

My comments are the second and third as anonymous.

Silvia
 
Greg Davis:

You bring spiritual attack upon yourself by promulgating a warped and mutilated view of the Gospel.You will be tormented until you repent of the likes of Constance and here deranged babble.

May Isis bless and keep you with mercy upon you.
 
This comment has been removed by the author.
 
To Joyce, Constance and everyone:

I would just like to say that I am very glad to have found a group of Christians eager to discuss God’s word here in “My Perspective” (MP). I really appreciate your study and knowledge.

I apologize if I am saying too many things you already know, but I do enjoy sharing God’s wisdom (of which much was intended for “Baal's” enlightenment). I am looking forward to getting to know you all, and determining how I can possibly contribute to your discussions. May God continue use this blog to bring greater understanding and blessings to His children as it has for me so far.
 
k--
For right now Focus on the Family (FOF) is on my "ones to watch list". They do many good things such as sticking up for all human life from conception to natural death. What worries me the most is Chuck Colson association, their participation in this video streaming thing (which has some other questionable organizations), and finally Dr. Dobson himself.
I know he is a "sacred cow" of the Christian community. But at the end of the day he is a psychologist. He has had years of indoctrination of what the brain is like, etc. He believes strongly in personality profiling (which by the way is connected to occult).

You will never find any of these things in there own literature. In fact they warn (in their Adventure in Odyssey series) to stay away from horoscopes, rabbit's foots, good luck charm, and role playing games. But at the same time they air other episodes about the goodness of contemplative prayer, the wonders of the emergent church (including friendship evangelism), and promote other "christian mystism" ideas.

As Constance would say, they tend to talk out of both sides of their mouth.
 
This comment has been removed by the author.
 
And Baal:

I don’t mean to ignore you as a person, only to ignore the things you say.

You are right about one thing as spiritual attacks come to anyone who willingly follows Jesus; however, as you can learn from this blog, the entire nation and world is under the spiritual attack caused by the ruling elite which no one asked for. Adam and Eve did not ask for Satan to come and tempt them. These attacks just come with living in this world and are used a test to see who we are going to obey—the demonic spirits or the Holy Spirit. Do you know which you obey?
 
Constance lives on the edge of "unhinged" judging by her nutty and paranoid writing. She is a bit like a pied piper of evangelical derangement.

Constance's shoddy, almost criminal "research" is designed to sell books and line her pockets. Blessed be Mammon huh? Hanging out with and cross quoting lunatics who in turn quote her: Warnke, Michaelson, Lindsay, etc. all to sell nonsensical babble to gullible evangelicals.

I'm not sure how she can live with herself but the money must help.
 
Dawn reads and listens to too much of Brannon Howse. Not that I think much of Focus on the Family which is really just Focus on the Profit. But good old Brannon has been trashing them for days as they seem to have softened their position on hating everything that lives.
 
7/27/2009

Terri asked: "1. Within the Passover seder, an egg is eaten which represents new birth/spring. Is this from Biblical tradition[?]

Dear Terri,

Here is the real answer, the Jewish one: The seder itself is of rabbinic origin and is not biblical (unless you consider the seder an outgrowth of the Passover sacrifice, with which everyone particiated in a communal meal). Hiowever, many of the events in the seder are related to the Exodus and pursuant to commandments such as eating o0f unleavened bread and telling the story of the Exodus.

Exod 13:7 Unleavened cakes shall be eaten during the seven days, and no leaven shall be seen of yours [in your possession], and no leavening shall be seen of yours throughout all of your borders. 8 And you shall tell your son on that day, saying, "Because of this, the Lord did [this] for me when I went out of Egypt."

The seder began in Roman times and developed over the millenia. The roasted egg is symbolic of a festival offering. brought to the Temple, called the Chagigah (Festival is "chag" in Hebrew). It is traditional to begin the seder meal with an egg, which symbolizes the Chagigah. This way, everyone starts the Seder meal with the same thing -- as in Temple times when everyone ate the Chagigah.

>>2. Is there any reason that Passover should be only observed once/year?

Yes; for several reasons. First, it is a commoration of the Exodus which occurred at a specific time.
Second, it is a seven day holiday (eight outside Israel). See Exod. 13:7 above. Third, there are several holidays/festivals throughout the year. We have to work sometimes:-)

>>As Christians we see Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of Passover.

What does he have to do with the Exodus???

>>At the Last Supper He declares, "This is my blood of the new covenant," indicating that he was fulfilling the Passover.

No; if this is true he was actually changing the meaning of Passover. Matthew and Mark simply say "covenant" without the "new." The Passover is a commemoration of the Exodus not of Jesus. More on this in the next message.

Peace and blessing,
Len
 
7/27/2009

>>As Christians we see Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of Passover.

And Christians also refer to him as "the perfect lamb" relating him to the Paschal sacrifice.

But if Christians knew why a lamb was commanded as the Passover sacrifice they might not be so eager to claim Jesus as the perfect lamb or as the fulfillment of Passover.

It is exactly because the Egyptians worshipped sheep and did not eat them. Just as Christians worship the Lamb, the Egyptians similarly worshipped lambs. They also hated shepherds for similar reasons. It was Egyptian IDOLOTRY that led to their lamb worship.

When Pharaoh gave Joseph permission to have his family come to Egypt, Joseph told his family that shepherds are abhorrent to Egyptians (Gen. 46:34). When Pharaoh asks what they do Joseph tells them to respond that they are "men of cattle." Breeders of cattle were not despised, as were shepherds. The implication is that they were fallen cattlemen who, due to the famine, had been reduced to shepherding. Pharaoh would demand that they live in a remote province of Goshen, far from the native population.

When Pharaoh told Moses he would let the Jews sacrifice to their God, but within Egypt, Moses replied:

“It would not be right to do this, for what we sacrifice to the Lord our God is untouchable to the Egyptians. If we sacrifice what is untouchable to the Egyptians before their very eyes, will they not stone us? (Exod. 8:22)

Rashi, the great exigete, wrote, "for all shepherds are an abomination to the Egyptians" because the Egyptians worshipped sheep. This sets the stage for the events of the Exodus.

The Lord decided to stick it to the Egyptians by singling out their lord for sacrifice. The principle was that, if Egyptians were going to commit idolatry by worshipping a lamb, then God's people will sacrifice these false Gods and objects of idolatry; exactly opposing and denigrating the Egyptian belief system. It was self assertion, on the part of the Israelites, and repudiation of their masters.

When God tells Moses and Aaron to tell each family to draw out a lamb (Ex. 12:3), we interpet it metaphorically as drawing out from the Egyptian idolatrous environment. The Midrash (homiletic parable) states: "So it was with Israel in Egypt that they were given to idolatry and did not forsake it, for it is written, 'But they did not every man cast away the abominations of their eyes. (Ezek. 20:7-8)’ Said the Holy One, blessed be He, to Moses: As long as the Israelites worship the Egyptian Gods they shall not be redeemed. Go and tell them to forsake their evil ways and repudiate idolatry -- as it is written, 'Draw out and take you ---' that is to say, 'Withdraw your hands from idolatry and take you a lamb, and slaughter thereby the Egyptian Gods and make the Passover."

So if Jesus is fulfillment of the Passover it is not in the way you think.

Peace and blessing,
Len
 
7/27/2009

Joyce wrote: "The underlying meaning of who the Lamb represents is the most important."

Yes! That is exactly what I was talking about in my last messsage.
 
"Anonymous Anonymous said...

VACCINATIONS: DEADLY IMMUNITY

http://www.infowars.com/vaccinations-deadly-immunity/"

Oh dear...I see we quote from infowars. The mental illness Constance has unloosed is worse than even I thought. The batty, twisted, disturbed, and socially retarded are out in force.

Constance honey, if you were in earnest you would offer guidance to such poor lost souls awash in a sea of kook.

btw - just wondering, who hires a raving end times, apocalyptic, one world religion, new world order, they are coming to steal our souls in the corn maze, insane lawyer?

And to represent them for what?

Seems like a poor life choice on their part.
 
JESUS AS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE PASSOVER? CLEARLY YES:

1. Either the blood was on the door or it was not. If the blood was on the door, the destroying angel passed over. If not, the Israelites lost their first borns just like the Egyptians on that first passover night.

2. The great Isaiah prophecies must not and cannot be ignored.

a. He was DESPISED AND REJECTED, a MAN OF SORROWS

b. "Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son . . ."

c. "O Thou Bethlehem . . ."

It is also important to remember the Zechariah prophecies "THEN THEY SHALL MOURN HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED . . ."

The day when come when all of Israel may well be "Messianic Judaic . . ." That day may not be too terribly far off. The rest of the world is tightening a very ugly noose against Israel. The prophecies are being fulfilled.
 
Len,

tsk, tsk, Egyptian Idolatry indeed. The Egyptians viewed the lamb as an emblem of innocence as did many ancient cultures. They certainly did NOT worship the lamb in any real sense of the word. Although they did use the symbolism of the ram in some of their God images.

But worship? Certainly not.

Christians borrowed the lamb which had been used as a blood sacrifice for sin in many ancient cultures as it seemed to be a perfect symbol for their story about Christ getting nailed to that tree and atoning for Man's sin.
 
Speaking of cornfields, "Baal" seems just like an evil entity starring as a character in a Stephen King movie . . .
 
Baal, you are really one mixed up dude. No wonder with all of that hooey you fill your mind. You're living in the ancient past where speculation can come across as fact, and you think you can carry that world into the 21st century.

I've known Constance for 27, maybe its 28 years, anyway before her boook. During that time she has not taken donations. Her first book was published by Huntington House and as it was her first book, they got a very sweet deal. There's not a lot of profit to go around at $5.95 a copy. The Christian community is not all handshakes and hymns, particularly where New Age involvement is concerned. NA people are not moral.
Look at yourself!

You are farming the wrong field here. We who have been following the movement for ages aren't going to be moved by a little wet behind the ears diaper baby who is selling cheap paganism that can be bought from discount tables in New Age bookstores.

How about a little test pipsqueak. Tell us what you know about Javier Solana and his history. What do you know about the Aspen Institute and Mortimer Adler's connection? Explain the eugenics movement and how it fit in with Nazism. Where did the planning for the European Union begin? And here's a baby question: Who is on the list of New Group of World Servers and its connection to Lucis Trust.

Gullible? You're the one buying "secret" occult information from traveling salesmen with fancy titles.

Dorothy

When you finish with this information, we can provide you with more questions.
 
Baal,

What's the matter? Can't you find any fellow pagans who want to come out and play with you?

Constance
 
All the differing opinions and interpretations of doctrine fall in line with the push for Madame Blavatsky’s theosophy. Once a person believes he is empowered to attain a higher consciousness, then he will begin to believe he can find truth on his own. However, the Bible tells us that interpretation of scripture is not done privately. Some people feel they can speak for God and teach others why God did something or another, but it is impossible to know the mind of God with our human minds because His ways are beyond searching out. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal truth to mankind today through Jesus Christ.

The Christian church is under great spiritual attack. Attendance is declining and faith is waning. There is an increase in false pastors who are preaching for the wrong reasons. Unless we try to always glorify and please God, we will one day be disappointed in how we spend our time in this life. All the problems with the church today are because Christians are being attacked, and helping each other become more aware of this can lead to solutions and revival.
 
7/27/2009

Greg wrote: "Jesus says: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” (Matt 5:17-18) God’s word is eternal, and the TRUTH of it will never be destroyed. God’s commandments are pure and good, the most important of which are ---

Dear Gregg,

If you believe Jesus how do you account for all the changes the New Testament makes in the Torah? Isn't this a violation of what Jesus said? The Torah does not say that Jesus is the fulfillment of Passover as others here claim.

There are no "two most important commandments" uless they are the first two of the Ten: That the Father alone took the Jews out of Egypt and that we should have no other gods besidews Him.

If Joyce's rewriting/Christianizing of the Torah is used to determine faith, those who rely on it are barking up the wrong tree. I happen to be mystically inclined, but only if the mystic interpretations are not in conflict with my basic fundamental religious viewpoint. Before any Jew goes off on a tangent he should learn the basic JEWISH meaning of the holidays.

Christians exhibit a creative way of Christianizing the Jewwish holidays. However, it is strictly allegoric and without foundation. I can provide a Christian litany of the meaning of Passover which outdid anything Joyce ever said about the seder.

Aside from matzah, the body, and wine, the blood, the holes in the matzah representing the nailholes; the stripes, the whipping stripes; the three matzoth placed on the table and covered, the Trinity, the breaking of the middle matzah (Afikoman), the breaking of the body; the hiding of the Afikoman, the missing body; the covering of the matzah, the burial shroud, and the finding of the Afikoman, the Resurrection.

How'm I doing:-?

Peace and blessing,
Len
 
Story on AOL (07/27/09):

Is John Travolta finished with the Church of Scientology?

The actor, who has been a follower of the controversial faith for 34 years, is rumored to be leaving the faith after its radical medical ideals prevented him from getting help for his16-year-old autistic son, Jett, who passed away six months ago.

“There have been strong rumors coming out of Scientology that John Travolta is disappointed that the religion was not able to help his son more,” says Rick Ross, a Scientology lecturer for more than 30 years. “It’s led him to question his faith.”

But Ross adds that the 55-year-old actor may not follow through on his desire to split from the church because he fears leaders may retaliate by revealing embarrassing details about his private life.

“Scientology keeps files on its celebrity members containing embarrassing personal information about them,” Ross says. “And Scientology has proven in the past that it has a penchant for releasing that information to embarrass people who have left and who have said things it doesn’t like.”
 
Peace and Blessing to you as well, Len:

First of all, I am a newcomer to posting here, and I mainly visit to add to my toolkit of spiritual discernment. Nevertheless, I will attempt to help you.

It may benefit your understanding to know that Jesus is the promised Messiah. Since you are so knowledgeable you must know that there are several OT scriptures which predict the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus then, is God, and since He is God then He is the Law.

It is like this: When our fathers used to go away on a business trip, he would tell us that he is coming back; but sometimes he would also give us some rules to follow like who is going to handwash the dishes on what day. If we kids do not obey those rules we could certainly expect to be in trouble when Dad comes home, so we respect and fear our father’s commands. However, if Dad comes home with a dishwasher, there is no more need to follow the old rules of washing the dishes by hand. He made the rules, so he can change them. Jesus also made the rules for the Jews, but when He came to earth, he changed them by explaining and fulfilling them.

That is a short explanation, but you cannot expect to understand any of this without the Holy Spirit opening your eyes of understanding. As I posted above, we cannot expect to understand the great mysteries of God with our human logic. I will pray for you, but attacking any regular to this blog I believe you will find is a fruitless endeavor and can block the blessings God intends for you.

For a greater understanding I recommend you read the Book of Hebrews.

With Peace and Joy
 
Joyce's posts re: Passover are the perspective of a Jew for Jesus.
 
Greg and others,
While I know you have a deep faith in Christianity, it doesn't make it the final and absolute truth and that everyone will accept if you keep talking. Skip the warnings that at the end of time we Jews will convert with the idea that we might as well do it now.

If every time you went on a history blog, some occultist presented their view of Christianity, told you how wrong you were and how when you were deeper spiritually you would understand how right they were, I think after a few years of this you might get offended. Or if the Muslims were in the majority they did the same, would you just consider it sharing the Word or would you tell them they were wrong time after time, knowing they would never change. How would you feel if occultists or Muslims did this to you while others were listening and reading, particularly if the occultists/New Agers or Muslims were in the majority? You might be writing long passages about being persecuted. Even now if someone disagrees with you on some conservative thought you consider it persecution of Christianity. If a Christian feels they must do it to others, it's no different than if a New Ager or Muslims does it to you.

As I Jew I've heard Christian interpretations of Judaism and how the Bible should be interpreted many, many times from people who think this is the first time I've ever come across their hot news. Unless a Jew stays in their house 24 hours a day, trust me, we've heard it all.

Don't give me the line that if I discuss it with you I'll learn the truth. I know better than that. You will never accept that you can learn the truth from me. You are firm in your faith otherwise you wouldn't take the chance of doing missionary work. You want a one way street with the talk. It's useless to attempt to teach you about Judaism. If you wanted to learn about it in a neutral way, the web is full of places where you can learn.

Don't act as if we Jews were not very intelligent weak willed ninnies just waiting to be taught by you.
We're not.

I know what I'm writing will never sink in and probably tonight some Christian will attempt to teach another Jew the real truth on this blog.

Just know that I will roll my eyes at another attack on my religion by some well meaning person who isn't very deep spiritually.

Dorothy
 
At the real end, God will clarify all for us.

Constance
 
Dorothy:

Where would you like me to start?

1. The legitimate historical story of the origin and evolution of eugenics and the Nazi use of it to both murder (they would have said euthanize) the mentally ill and physically disabled, or their programs to have young attractive healthy people of obvious Germanic Stock breed to improve the race?

The eugenic overtones of the Holocaust, whereby the Nazis claimed to be cleansing the world of "degenerate" races?

The early idealists who thought that it could be used to eliminate afflictions from which humans had suffered for thousands of years, only to be proven tragically wrong?

Such an example would be Robert Owen who explicates his views in "The New World" whereby people who suffer from various genetic afflictions may have their lives improved? He was an idealist and was wrong but in earnest.

The early racists who saw in it a way to prove the degeneracy of Africans such as Dr. James Hunt, who in no great surprise was the President of the Anthropological Society and stated in his paper "The Negro's Place in Nature" that "the analogies are far more numerous between the ape and the negro than between the ape and the European"?

The movement at the end of the 19th century, where in a rapidly industrializing world men like Galton were calling for a science of "eugenics" in order to study "those agencies under social control which may improve or impair the racial qualities of future generations."?

I do teach about the eugenics movement and its evils and resulting barbarity in U.S. History III so I can go on for some length if you wish.

Though, perhaps you are thinking more along the lines of the documentary "Maafa 21: Black Genocide in the 21st Century" about abortion which makes claims vaguely reminiscent of Nazi style extermination of a generation of African Americans. Its hard to know with folks as unstable as those on this blog.

Or

2. Insane conspiracy theory involving Javier Solana and his flirtation with socialism and his tenure at the U.N. and the nefarious and non existent movement toward a world government and religion in which he is both a cog and an annoyance for letting the plan slip? I know I'd start consolidating the world in Southeast Asia.

Or

3. I assume that you are referring to the batsoid nuts theory that world leaders convene at events such as the Leadership Network Conference to plot the One World Government and subvert Christianity in order to help promulgate the One World Religion?
Where Mortimer Adler held court for many years teaching and discussing the Great Works of Ancient Philosophy and Religion to business people, government officials, etc. Perhaps offending the brain deprived loons on this blog with his pull quote philosophy that "The only standard we have for judging all of our social, economic, and political institutions and arrangements as just or unjust, as good or bad, as better or worse, derives from our conception of the good life for man on earth, and from our conviction that, given certain external conditions, it is possible for men to make good lives for themselves by their own efforts."

Which the nutters see as a rejection of God and part of the self same march toward a Christless (if only it would blessedly be so) One World Religion.
 
Or

4. (God...wadding into this lunacy is taxing) I suppose by this you mean the idea that truly proves that Constance is insane or has a brain tumor by way of the idea that the "World Federalists" began long range planning for the EU in the 30's or 40's. This was part of their plan to implement a One World Government. Poppycock.

Or

5. Where we find ourselves back at Alice Bailey and the Lucius Trust. btw- I heard some mentally ill young lunatic woman in Colorado ask Brannon Howse the other day if Lucent Technologies was a part of this whole conspiracy. lol lol lol
The group of initiates supposed to be the New Group of World Servers functions as a vanguard to spread the new enlightenment according to the batty, nutty, and slow witted. You fail to mention Maitreya uniting the world, etc., etc., etc.

I am now thoroughly exhausted covering the dippy subjects you wished in your quest to demonstrate the coming One World Religion. You fail.

Let me know which insane argument you would like me to destroy first.

Constance, are you certain at your decrepit age you wish to be afflicting the minds of so many with your made up demons? You have had your career at law, written several poorly constructed and thought out books on spirituality that leave much wanting. Maybe you should just release these people from the fantasy and the agony?
 
Dorthy, I believe that I have been trying to prove this point using the language and similar I seen thrown at other Christians, never mind Jews. They just get angry and can't get past the idea that someone believes differently.

Greg and others,
While I know you have a deep faith in Christianity, it doesn't make it the final and absolute truth and that everyone will accept if you keep talking. Skip the warnings that at the end of time we Jews will convert with the idea that we might as well do it now.

If every time you went on a history blog, some occultist presented their view of Christianity, told you how wrong you were and how when you were deeper spiritually you would understand how right they were, I think after a few years of this you might get offended. Or if the Muslims were in the majority they did the same, would you just consider it sharing the Word or would you tell them they were wrong time after time, knowing they would never change. How would you feel if occultists or Muslims did this to you while others were listening and reading, particularly if the occultists/New Agers or Muslims were in the majority? You might be writing long passages about being persecuted. Even now if someone disagrees with you on some conservative thought you consider it persecution of Christianity. If a Christian feels they must do it to others, it's no different than if a New Ager or Muslims does it to you.

As I Jew I've heard Christian interpretations of Judaism and how the Bible should be interpreted many, many times from people who think this is the first time I've ever come across their hot news. Unless a Jew stays in their house 24 hours a day, trust me, we've heard it all.

Don't give me the line that if I discuss it with you I'll learn the truth. I know better than that. You will never accept that you can learn the truth from me. You are firm in your faith otherwise you wouldn't take the chance of doing missionary work. You want a one way street with the talk. It's useless to attempt to teach you about Judaism. If you wanted to learn about it in a neutral way, the web is full of places where you can learn.

Don't act as if we Jews were not very intelligent weak willed ninnies just waiting to be taught by you.
We're not.

I know what I'm writing will never sink in and probably tonight some Christian will attempt to teach another Jew the real truth on this blog.

Just know that I will roll my eyes at another attack on my religion by some well meaning person who isn't very deep spiritually.

Dorothy
 
7/27/2009

Greg,

As a newcomer to the blog how do you know who the "regulars" are???

With regards to your parable of the father it is more apt to cite the son who comes home and tells his father that everything the father has been doing all these years is wrong.

That is your's, the New Testament's and Christianity's status.
 
Baal, you've just convinced everyone here you don't know what you're talking about, although you came pretty close with your write-up on eugenics. As for the rest of your responses, I'm back to seeing you as the goofball with three spelling errors in two sentences and who believes a dedicated Christian can honor Isis.
You exhaust easily so it's no wonder you talk without knowing what you're talking about. You're just too exhausted to learn anything seriously. You have my sympathy as you suffer with your physical illness.

You're not talking to a bunch of students who have to pretend to think you're making sense or you'll slaughter them with ad hominem insults. Try harder to stop looking silly.

Dorothy
 
7/28/2009

Is ACORN Intentionally Structured As a Criminal Enterprise?

Staff Report

U.S. House of Representatives
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

July 20, 2009

Executive Summary (Portion of)

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) has repeatedly and deliberately engaged in systemic fraud. Both structurally and operationally, ACORN
hides behind a paper wall of nonprofit corporate protections to conceal a criminal
conspiracy on the part of its directors, to launder federal money in order to pursue a
partisan political agenda and to manipulate the American electorate.

Emerging accounts of widespread deceit and corruption raise the need for a criminal investigation of ACORN. By intentionally blurring the legal distinctions between 361 tax-exempt and non-exempt entities, ACORN diverts taxpayer and tax-exempt monies
into partisan political activities. Since 1994, more than $53 million in federal funds have
been pumped into ACORN, and under the Obama administration, ACORN stands to receive a whopping $8.5 billion in available stimulus funds.

Operationally, ACORN is a shell game played in 120 cities, 43 states and the District of
Columbia through a complex structure designed to conceal illegal activities, to use
taxpayer and tax-exempt dollars for partisan political purposes, and to distract investigators. Structurally, ACORN is a chess game in which senior management is
shielded from accountability by multiple layers of volunteers and compensated employees who serve as pawns to take the fall for every bad act.

The report that follows presents evidence obtained from former ACORN insiders that completes the picture of a criminal enterprise.

First, ACORN has evaded taxes, obstructed justice, engaged in self dealing, and aided and abetted a cover-up of embezzlement by Dale Rathke, the brother of
ACORN founder Wade Rathke.

Second, ACORN has committed investment fraud, deprived the public of its right to honest services, and engaged in a racketeering enterprise affecting interstate commerce.

Third, ACORN has committed a conspiracy to defraud the United States by using taxpayer funds for partisan political activities.

Fourth, ACORN has submitted false filings to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the Department of Labor, in addition to violating the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA).

Fifth, ACORN falsified and concealed facts concerning an illegal transaction between related parties in violation of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA).

Complete report at:
http://tinyurl.com/n6krcd
 
Dorthy:

It is amazing that one as ignorant of faith and religion as yourself allows herself to demonstrate this ignorance on the open internet.

And as for your other problems, there medications that might help, that is assuming you have not waited too long.

Otherwise you would make a wonderful candidate for locked down observation under the New World Order. I'll make the suggestion at our next meeting as I AM a member of the Lucis Trust. I'll forward a copy of the newsletter to whatever asylum it is you are afflicting.
 
Thank you Baal, but I have enough Lucis Trust material already. If you do have extra copies of the latest World Goodwill newsletters, I would appreciate receiving them. I dropped the subscription as the material was just too repetitive. I would be willing to trade for one of extra copies of some of the books I have. Just let Constance know what you have. By the way, isn't the Lucis Trust library in NYC is extremely small! As a member you could tell them that they shouldn't be so cheap. The Theosophical Society library covers two floors instead of the little cubbyhole the Lucis Trust library uses.

Also you might tell them that they shouldn't pretend to eternal truths when they conveniently change the wording over time in their books. Makes them look really bad.

It's easy to see you as a member. The low level material is geared to pretentious fools.

It's rather clear that you came to this blog to exchange barbed commentary, so I'm willing to accommodate you, at least for a while. It's your mental drug of choice, and until you go through some kind of rehab, I would rather not see you suffer.

Dorothy
 
Question for you Baal:

Since you believe that you are so far "superior" to the rest of us "inferior" beings on this blog - WHY would you even want to waste your time here???

You know what the definition of insanity is don't you? Repeating the same behavior and expecting a different outcome.

B a a a h h h !!!
 
"By 'being fools' we do not mean being stupid; nor do we direct those who are learned in the liberal sciences to jettison their knowledge, and those who are gifted with quickness of mind to become dull, as if a man cannot be a Christian unless he is more like a beast than a man. The profession of Christianity requires us to be immature, not in our thinking, but in malice (1 Cor. 14:20). But do not let anyone bring trust in his own mental resources or his learning into the school of Christ; do not let anyone be swollen with pride or full of distaste, and so be quick to reject what he is told, indeed even before he has sampled it."
John Calvin
Concerning Scandals

I read the above this morning and it reminded me of the discussion going on here.

~HM
 
Oh, what a pleasure! "Mine own God is he." Rich men glory in wealth, famous men in valour, great men in honour, and I in "mine own God."

There is nothing about God but what is delightful to a saint. The infinite God is infinitely delightful to his people. Once get really to know God and to be like him, and even his sternest attributes—his power, his justice, his indignation against sin—will come to be delightful to you.

Those men who are cavilling at what God does, questioning over what God has revealed, do not know him, for to know him is to adore him. Oh, brethren, let us find our pleasure, our treasure, our heaven, our all, in the Lord our God, even as our Lord Jesus did. In this thing let us walk even as he walked.

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/1732.htm
 
This comment has been removed by the author.
 
In Jesus Christ' Name,
I bind all pagan gods invoked and claim the precious blood of Jesus against the attack.
 
Les:

(With respect to Constance and Barry, our prayers go out to them)

It's simple: I am a newcommer to POSTING COMMENTS, not to reading them or the blog which I have been doing now for almost 2 years. So I know many of the regulars.

However, I am no newcommer to the Scriptures to to helping many types of people (indluding Jews) understand their meaning.

The reason I gave you the "diswasher" analogy is so I could help you understand the Biblical Christian faith. You have not understood that, so I want to direct your attention again to the Book of Hebrews (the lating value of which no one can dispute).

Although there is some debate over who wrote Hebrews, a vast majority of Bible scholars believe it was Apostle Paul, a Jew. And Jewish Paul was writing to former Jews who had believed that Jesus is the Messiah and became Christians.

Paul begins Hebrews saying: "Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess. He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house. Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future. But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast."

These verses testify to the truth that Jesus is not only greater than Moses, but that He is God. And it is this witness that not only angered the Jews during His time on earth, but led to His crucifixion.

May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Bless You!

(P.S. Please do read the Book of Hebrews. Here's a link: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=3&version=31)
 
Dorothy,

"You're not talking to a bunch of students who have to pretend to think you're making sense or you'll slaughter them with ad hominem insults."

Not to get into a fight with you, although that seems your stock and trade, but I prefer students who disagree with me and state so forcefully. Every year I ask my students to evaluate me and my couse and ask them for total honesty. It is impossible to improve yourself when people only suck up to you.

This year my harshest critic, a girl who thinks my classes are terrible, my lessons are poor, and my teaching style boring, received the highest grades (A's) in both classes she had with me. I do not get mad at people telling me their honest opinion.

As to religion, we discuss it often, but usually only as it relates to Europe and the United States. I try never to interject my own views and allow my students to offer their own viewpoints with minimal if any comment on my part. It is simply inappropriate for a teacher to preach their religious views.

The only exceptions to this occur when some student comes out with a totally fraudulent and offensive viewpoint. This accelerated after 9/11 and I get quite a bit of "Muslims are evil we should kill them all", "Muslims don't believe in God", etc.

They pick this up from insane "Christian" web sites and "ministries".

I rebuke these comments and discuss the Abrahamic faiths, and their knowledge of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is usually quite poor. After this discussion I usually get a lot of "Jews are cheep b*******", "Jews are nasty", "Jews deny God". They are again rebuked and I talk at length about the history of Antisemitism, what we know of its origins, and the horrors it has lead to. It is virulent and ingrained in many of them and often I have to threaten punishment if they do not simply stop spouting such hatred.

But I never discuss my personal faith with students or grade differently because a student of some particular background.

This is contrary to the brainwashing you receive on many of the New World Order site you are addicted to.
 
"Anonymous Anonymous said...

Question for you Baal:

Since you believe that you are so far "superior" to the rest of us "inferior" beings on this blog - WHY would you even want to waste your time here???

You know what the definition of insanity is don't you? Repeating the same behavior and expecting a different outcome.

B a a a h h h !!!"

I don't believe I have ever called anyone here "inferior". This is simply your own inadequacy and paranoia coming through.

I am simply here to spread the message of Isis to the deceived, ignorant, and unbelievers.

Why do you waste your time babbling at those who don't believe in your "god"?
 
Baal, are you bi-polar? Do really expect me to believe that someone capable at one moment of a sane exchange of ideas is the same person who acts like a whackjob the other part of the time? You came running in here with horns lowered. Now you want us to believe there are teachers out there who will act insanely one moment and sanely the next, thus making whatever message they are trying to get across look very undependable?

If you've followed this blog for any period of time, you'll see that many of the posters use it as a place to affirm their own brand of Christianity to each other. They don't convert anyone as they are as stubborn in their beliefs as you are in yours. They know almost nothing about the New Age movement except what they can tie into their end times beliefs. They haven't bothered to do any research on the topic, just as you haven't. They are a better lot than you because while they go on and on, they don't spit out the kind of venom that you have done at others here.

There are some of us who have looked at the entire New Age movement. Others who just specialize in one branch of it. You can reject whatever you want about the information, but if you really think yourself intelligent you should know what information you are rejecting. At this point you just sound like some silly person who would say, "Don't tell me if I hit that button a light will go on over my head. That just sounds stupid."

Dorothy
 
Dawn - Thank You so much for the further info. This is very helpful.

~K~
 
My, my. Touchy aren't we? People usually get that way when their raw ignorance is exposed.

I come to this blog because Constance Cumby (and I do hope her husband is doing well) spit out the most vapid, poorly researched, lies, and utter conspiracy nut nonsense with no sense of guilt or remorse for the damage she does to those with fragile paranoid mental states who listen to her. That is evil.

She trashes good people.

That is evil.

She trashes innocent people.

That is evil.

I have not been busy for years posting comments like this:

"Maitreyanism is theosophic authoritarian communism. Naziism is a historical example of Maitreyanism, except that the Nazis crushed unionism. Göbbels, the propaganda minister of the Nazi regime, observed that Nazi indoctrination produced militants who "obey a law they are not even consciously aware of but which they could recite in their dreams." (Q.V. Virilio, 1996, p.11). The current crop of Maitreyans (New Agers) are also Nazis, though with a fully unionized program."

The Nazis read quite a bit of philosophy some of which they used as a tool to further their aims. Much of which they rejected.

Theosophists are not Nazis.

And you think my comments are venomous? Dorothy, I do suspect that you indeed can not read.

May Isis bless you and help you overcome your many issues.
 
Baal writes,
"Theosophists are not Nazis."

No Baal, I would agree that they don't put on storm trooper boots and do drills outside of their bookstore.

You, however need to a little research on their accumulation of political power prior to WWII and their international goals. Hitler took the movement and nationalized it, upsetting their larger plans to internationalize it.

To get a better understanding of how their philosophies mesh, start with reading some of George Mosse's books.

In a recent book, Politics and the Occult, actually published by Quest, a Theosophical publisher, you'll find on page 196, "But while the reality of Hitler's and Nazism's occult roots is less sensational than many books suggest, the milieu in which they arose certainly had an occult air...Yet as Martin Green in his history of Monte Verita writes, in the darkening political twilight, "the Asconian idea proved to be a precursor of Nazism."

As Richard Weaver wrote, "Ideas have consequences."

Dorothy
 
Dorthy,

No, ideas CAN have consequences. And reading literature while harboring psychotic beliefs can lead to nutty conclusions.

You certainly do mutilate Mosse's thesis which certainly does not hold that Theosophy is Nazism, encouraged Nazism, or was a major part of it. In fact he acknowledges there is nothing in Theosophy which which has anything in common with Nazi philosophy.

His thesis is that the open ended nature of Theosophy and its emphasis on a quest for knowledge did not seemingly prohibit people from exploring Nazi philosophy and in fact those already prone to extreme views used the openness of Theosophy as an excuse for the study and development of Nazi philosophy.

I disagree with him. But in any case, he does not believe that Theosophy was a major component of Nazism.

I have held off on joining the Theosophical Society in America, but think I now will so I can throw that in the face of you nutters too. It is a good organization.

By the way, your use of out of context quotations is a hallmark of the paranoid conspiracy theorist.
 
Baal, too bad you can't tell Weaver that his book, which is considered a classic, has an inaccurate title. I'll bet you would too.
"Ideas Have Consequences is a philosophical work by Richard M. Weaver, published in 1948."

Baal writes: "And reading literature while harboring psychotic beliefs can lead to nutty conclusions." And in this you are an expert I'll agree. Your nutty conclusions are wonders to behold.

Since you've regularly made things up when you've posted here, please source your information on Mosse. Otherwise your information is not trustworthy.

---------
Anthroposophy and Ecofascism
On the connections between theosophy and the Nazis, see George Mosse, "The Occult Origins of National Socialism" in Mosse, The Fascist Revolution: Toward a General Theory of Fascism, New York 1999
www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles/Staudenmaier.html - Cached - Similar

http://www.greyfalcon.us/restored/Nazism%20and%20The%20New%20Age.htm
Nazism and The New Age, Hitler and the Occult

"According to research (see Adolf Hitler, The Occult Messiah, Gerald Suster), Hitler was devoted to Theosophy and kept a copy of Blavatsky's The Secret Doctrine by his bedside."

"Gnostic-Nazi-New Age Convergence

Gnosticism had another, lesser-known influence on Nazi religion, which also appears in New Age thought: the Jewish God (as they mispronounce it, "Jehovah") is not the Most High and only God, but a "demiurge" pretending to be such. Blavatsky agreed that the Gnostics "were right in regarding the Jewish God as belonging to a class of lower, material and not very holy denizens of the invisible world." (quoted in Sklar) (For more evidence on the Gnostic roots of New Age, see Stephan Hoeller's "The Hermetic-Gnostic Roots of Theosophy", sold on tape by the Theological Society.) In Blavatsky's understanding, "only angels of a low hierarchy" could have created "those wretched races, in a spiritual and moral sense, which grace our globe." [Not shy about contradicting herself, Blavatsky also identified the Jewish God as Cain, son of Eve by Satan.]"

"Early American neo-Nazi James Madole, who rejected Christianity as a degenerate Jewish construct, became a key figure in developing bizarre forms of fascism after he founded the National Renaissance Party, the first U.S. neo-Nazi organization, in 1952.

Although he never attracted many followers, Madole became known as "the father of postwar occult fascism" by saturating his ideology with a mish-mash of science-fiction and other notions drawn from eastern traditions and theosophy, a mystical religious movement originating in late 19th century America."

I don't propose to do a paper for you to convince you. You have no intellectual curiosity it appears, assuming you already know it all.

It's so obvious you are concocting answers as you go along. Well, I know for folks like you it is hard to admit you know so little, full of pride from the tip of your head down to your toenails. Don't worry. No one knows who you are. Stay anonymous and protect your reputation.

Dorothy
 
Dorothy,

There are plenty of scholarly works which address the subject. It is terribly complex as I tried to explain and yet you attempt to reduce it to a simple fairy tale.

To quote from Jeffrey A. Goldstein in his article "On Racism and Anti-Semitism in Occultism and Nazism" published in Yad Vashem Studies 13 (1979) 53-71 and which quotes Mosse extensively:

"To be sure, Blavatsky's circle did not identify the Aryan Race with the current Germanic Peoples, and they also did not call for a violent subjugation of one race by another. Madame Blavatsky herself wrote that the "great reform" must come without social upheaval, without spilling a drop of blood: "He who is thoroughly impressed by the philosophic truth that every Ego begins and end by being indivisible All, cannot love his neighbor less than himself" Pg. 58

"With all its anti-Semitism and seemingly sophisticated racism, Theosophy did not call for violence and did not identify the Aryans with the Germans. Thus, there is a wide gap between the Theosophists and the Nazis. We propose that a group called "Ariosophy" helped to bridge this gap, and that it was the second avenue through which Theosophy influenced Nazi ideology" Pg. 62

"Both Theosophy and Ariosophy were primarily concerned with intellectual and rather abstract speculations concerning esoteric interpretations of human nature and human evolution. There is no evidence that either was at all militant in its programs" Pg 65
 
Dorthy:

Here is my final post on this interminable subject. Since you introduced the as yet unverified story that Hitler kept Blavatsky's book by his bedside. His book collection ran into the thousands and possibly tens of thousands. The remnants of Hitler's private book collection are documented in several places including an excellent article in the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/books/chapters/chapter-hitlers-private-library.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

You will note that he was fond of Shakespeare owning his complete works in German translation. He read Cesar. He owned an expensive copy of the Words of Christ bound in gold. He owned Henry Ford's book on the Jewish Problem.

I suggest you buy and read "Hitler's Private Library" by Timothy W. Ryback which explores the remnants of Hitler's extensive book collection and attempts by examining marginalia and other clues to determine which books he was most fascinated with. I found it to be a book that I could not put down.
 
Thanks, but I'm familiar with the Hitler library material and its documentation. I learned about it many years ago.

I might suggest you see what books are on Henry Ford's bookshelves at the Museum in Dearborn. Ford was an antisemite and a Theosophist.

Henry Ford Quotes
HENRY FORD, Theosophist Magazine, Feb. 1930. Too many men are afraid of being fools. ... HENRY FORD, The Theosophical Path magazine, Nov. 1927 ...
www.notable-quotes.com/f/ford_henry.html

Dorothy
 
Dorthy:

Now you are engaging in guilt by association, attempting to assert that Theosophy is populated exclusively by antisemitic individuals. Which it is not.

Please explain then how it was that Alexander Graham Bell, Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, and Ghandi(who was very interested in it and joined the Theosophical Society in London and remained a member for several years), Albert Schweitzer (heavily into theosophy and a good friend of Annie Besant - this from Schweitzer's memoirs)among an extensive list studied and some held to certain Theosophical ideas?

All Nazi sympathizing thugs? All deluded and missing the great evil of Theosophy?

Come now. Try to construct an argument using logic instead of your irrational hatred of other religious beliefs.
 
On Hitler's library.

This article came out before the book.

http://www.crystalinks.com/hitlerlibrary.html

Hitler's Forgotten Library

By Timothy W. Ryback - the director of the Salzburg Seminar, a forum for global dialogue on issues of contemporary concern, and the author of The Last Survivor: Legacies of Dachau.

Anyone who doubts Hitler's connection with the occult needs to read this paper.

Dorothy
 
Dorothy,

I learned a while back, that, no matter how hard you beat a dead horse with a stick, it still won't stand up....

HK
 
Dorothy,

Did you read the book or the article?
I suppose you contend that the Bible is an occult book? Or you missed the part about the evidence being that Hitler did not read most of the books he owned? At the very least it is problematic to determine which he payed much attention to as most of them were destroyed and many of the surviving ones show no evidence of having been read? Hence the analysis of the books it appears he actually read? You read that part right?

Perhaps I should begin the exhaustive list of Christian Anti-Semites that proceeded Hitler and the Nazis in German History? Or current German History. Maybe starting with the current Pope who has reinstated the Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews? It doesn't say anything all that bad, just that the Jews need to have their eyes enlightened.

The current prayer:

"We pray for the Jews. That our God and Lord enlighten their hearts so that they recognize Jesus Christ, the Saviour of all mankind. Let us pray. Kneel down. Arise. Eternal God Almighty, you want all people to be saved and to arrive at the knowledge of the Truth, graciously grant that by the entry of the abundance of all peoples into your Church, Israel will be saved. Through Christ our Lord."

Or the prayer German Catholics would have heard in the 19th and early 20th century:

For the conversion of the perfidious Jews. Let us pray also for the Jews that the Lord our God may take the veil from their hearts and that they also may acknowledge our Lord Jesus Christ.

"For the conversion of the perfidious Jews. Let us pray also for the Jews that the Lord our God may take the veil from their hearts and that they also may acknowledge our Lord Jesus Christ."

Let us pray: Almighty and everlasting God, you do not refuse your mercy even to the Jews; hear the prayers which we offer for the blindness of that people so that they may acknowledge the light of your truth, which is Christ, and be delivered from their darkness".

Perhaps I should follow on with the Protestant Anti-Semites?

Would you include Catholics and Lutherans in your Occult Conspiracy to murder innocent people?
 
Of course not every theosophist is an antisemite. Some are still at the gullible stage where they think it's an ecumenical movement.

However the Blavatsky writings on which Theosophy is based are very antisemitic. Lucis Trust, which is an offshoot of Theosophy is antisemitic, and I've seen other connections with theosophy that are antisemitic.

When there is a connection between the political and religious communities, and that connection is also antisemitic, I'm going to do what I can to expose it whether it is New Age, calls itself Christian or is part of the Muslim community.

As for you, you can go and worship Isis or your toenails. If a group of you get together, promote your beliefs as a religion and have a connection to politics while throwing in some antisemitism, I'll point it out to others.

Dorothy
 
From the article:
"Most scholars dismiss the notion that Hitler seriously entertained the ideas of these cults, but the marginalia in several of his books confirm at least an intellectual engagement in the substance of Weimar-era occultism. The Brown collection contains books by such figures as Adamant Rohm, a "magnetopathic doctor" from Wiesbaden; Carl Ludwig Schleich, a Berlin physician who pioneered the use of local anesthesia; and Joseph Anton Schneiderfranken, who wrote numerous books on reincarnation and otherworldly phenomena under the pseudonym Bô Yin Râ.

One of the most heavily marked books is Magic: History, Theory and Practice (1923), by Ernst Schertel. When I typed the author's name into one Internet search engine, I scored eight hits, including sites on Satanism, eroticism, sadomasochism, and flagellation. When I typed his name into Google, I scored twenty-six hits, including sites on parapsychology, astrology, and diverse sexual practices. According to a Web site for Germany's sadomasochistic community, Schertel wrote numerous books on flagellation and eroticism, and was "a central figure" in the German nudist movement of the 1920s and 1930s.

Hitler's copy of Magic bears a handwritten dedication from Schertel, scrawled on the title page in pencil. A 170-page softcover in large format, the book has been thoroughly read, and its margins scored repeatedly. I found a particularly thick pencil line beside the passage "He who does not carry demonic seeds within him will never give birth to a new world."

Also,
"As I traced the penciled notations, I realized that Hitler was seeking a path to the divine that led to just one place. Fichte asked, "Where did Jesus derive the power that has held his followers for all eternity?" Hitler drew a dense line beneath the answer: "Through his absolute identification with God." At another point Hitler highlighted a brief but revealing paragraph: "God and I are One. Expressed simply in two identical sentences His life is mine; my life is his. My work is his work, and his work my work."

This parallels Barbara Marx Hubbard's line in her book where whatever she is channeling says:
Your will and God's will are one. Whatever you destroy, you will destroy in his name.

If you don't know Hubbard's connections, I'm not going to take the time to teach you. You have too little knowledge of the entire movement for one more piece to make a difference.

I think I'll just step aside and let the others pray for you. You can ask them about Christianity and the New Age movement as well as about some Jews and the New Age movement.

Dorothy
 
I read this blog - must admit I am impressed by all the discussion and references to many topics, writings, people that someone like me who believes they are educated don't understand. I will use many of your references for my own research. I sure don't understand that constant name calling and sterotyping - seems to come equally from both sides.

Of course as a foot soldier in the maybe soon to be infamous "family" where I help put on our local prayer breakfast - what I'm really interested in is the neo-fundamentalism promoted by Vereide in the guise of resolving labor/capital tensions in America while continuing to promote a "fundamentalist" view of the source and purpose of America's goodness and wellbeing. The only reference I saw was BAAL comment about the "C" street gang which worries me too. I am involved with many people who know Colson, Coe, Meese, and knew Vereide. I'm concerned and I thought I was a fundamentalist.
 
Robert:

The C-Street story is appalling and if Constance wanted to research a real scandal she would investigate these people. I tend to be very open minded in my religion, very interested in the esoteric and the occult which are wonderful to study. Everyone should. But it is frightening that so many members of congress have fallen in with C-Street which is neither esoteric nor occult but just an upside down and twisted distortion of Christianity.

Dorothy should investigate too as they have a real Hitler fetish and have been caught on tape linking him with soldiers for Christ.

Dorothy:

Impressive list of quotations. Was our discussion about the occult, which is an important area of spirituality which everyone should study, or Theosophy an amorphous and hard to define conglomeration of beliefs? I failed to see a mention of Theosophy. Perhaps you forgot to type it.
 
Dorothy,

Re:

Barbara Marx Hubbard
Alice Bailey
et.al.

I don't buy channeling so don't consider any of their ilk a "source". Perhaps you should quote serious authors.
 
Baal,

I am hoping that Constance makes thorough reporting of The Fellowship and the Hijacking of Evangelicalism. Without trying to debate the value of esoteric practices, occult study, or the "evilness" of evangelicalism, I would agree with you that there is a problem. I'm not sure Constance is necessarily part of it and/or that all "evangelicals" should be lumped together. I believe in the fall of man. Anybody in there right mind cannot argue that the world is a messed up place, and only by exuding some degree of inherent personal optimism, or adoping a positive religious temperament can one face the inherent "pessimism" of the world. Sin, evil, ignorance, war, hate, suffering, cruelty, etc etc. are it's no use to live in the ideal and say these things shouldn't be - that is the wisdom of the Greeks, not the Hebrews. Neitsche had it right - his solution was the mercilous superman. Christianty agrees with the problem but offers another solution the redemption through the at-one-ment of Christ man with God. The world is not rational it is wild at its core. Unfortunately Evangelicalism has adopted as it base theology the victim mentality Neitxche abhored. Perhaps it's not the "fundamentals" of Christianity that is the problem, but the idea that we cannot now be one with God. The entrenchment of the Romans 7 view of carnality that is adopted as the standard Christian lifelong dilemma of fighting yourself inside yourself creates a no win situation where people are more concerned with being right than doing right. This self inward focus/loathing and masked pride has only one virtuous outpouring - evangelical focus since only this relieves the guilt. Its hard to love when you hate yourself. I don't however believe that the answer is in the occult however there must be mystery, and not all is simply mysticism. God can be known, but not without Christ.
 
Amen, Robert!
 
The Family has been researched and written about here and in other places. Constance did original research which you could find to study if you were so inclined. All you have to do is read the July 24 post here, you know what was at the top of the thread where you've been carrying on. Then you could search the blog or NWV for earlier posts by her. Or are you one of those who just want information handed to you on a platter so that you could then turn up your nose in some grand gesture.

The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power by Jeff Sharlet (Paperback - Jun 2, 2009) She had Sharlet on her show.

Sorry none of your colleagues passed the information on to you. Platters are scarce around you it seems.

Anyone who has any intellectual curiosity knows how to get information these days. The rest make excuses.
You jump to the conclusions of the crowd too easily.

Make yourself happy. Go read Robert Ellwood, a Theosophist academic who I ran into at Theosophical headquarters in Wheaton one day where he was staying and who I also went to hear speak at a New Age bookstore. He wrote
Theosophy: A Modern Expression of the Wisdom of the Ages. You could learn about it before you join.

Or you might like J. Gordon Melton a supposed neutral academic observer of the New Age who likes cult activity. I wish I could tell you on line where I encountered him. I won't bother you with academics who have written serious books on the New Age movement. I'm sure they wouldn't meet your standards.

Why continue to trouble yourself to post here when you've already come to your conclusions while knowing nothing about the people who post here or anything about the New Age movement.

Dorothy
 
Dorothy,

You are a bitter woman who, if I had to guess, was spurned by a Theosophist. Going out to meet Theosophists and all.

I do not believe in Theosophy. The period after that sentence is intentional. I have read volumes about it. It bores me. It is convoluted. It borrows randomly from all kinds of very rich traditions which I AM interested in, Rosicrucianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Freemasonry, Christianity, Gnosticism, Hermeticism, Platonism, Pythagoras, a host of ancient religions and a number of other things, along with Blavatsky's and Besant's own ideas created out of their heads, and buys into the idea of the New Atlantis which has been around for more than 150 years, and mashes it all together into a very confusing mess.

I do not, however, like people casting aspersions that are untrue. Like your implication that somehow Blavatsky, or Theosophy was responsible for the Nazi Party and the Holocaust.

There was a centuries long virulent Christian Antisemitism preached from the pulpits of German churches, carried out by Germany people in little towns and villages ostracizing Jews for hundreds and hundreds of years which lead up to the rise of the Nazi Party. They were not Theosophists marching on Krystallnacht they were supposedly good German Lutherans and Catholics. (Not to pick on them either, Catholicism, and Lutheranism, were not to blame either)

It was a toxic brewing culture going back centuries that finally exploded. Kaiser Wilhelm II is a good a example of the old German attitude toward Jews. He view them as debased, and although he had Jewish friends, he would not been seen in public with them nor invite them to State events. They could own businesses (and in some cases some of the largest in Germany) but they were not fit for German Society. In his exile his scribbling increasing blamed the Jews for everything. But, on Krystallnacht is was appalled. He did not think German behaved that way, the Slavic yes because they were not, in his view quite fully human.

But you reduce the whole thing to an occult new age conspiracy lead by Theosophy to commit one of the greatest crimes in history.

I will not remain silent in the face of such nonsense.
 
btw - much information on Wilhelm and his life, years as Kaiser, and life in exile, including the state of Antisemitism both with him and in Germany at the time, can be found in the excellent two volume biography of Wilhelm by Lamar Cecil.
 
Robert,

You sound like the kind of guy I would take out for a beer and discuss philosophy and religion with even thought we both probably disagree on about everything ther is to disagree about.

My entire point has been and is the offensive attacks on people's of all kinds of faiths and spiritual beliefs carried out by supposedly "good" Christians (and, apparently some "good Jews": "Of course not every theosophist is an antisemite. Some are still at the gullible stage where they think it's an ecumenical movement.")

But when I come here, to the center of the Religious Conspiracy Universe and use their own language back at them, they go insane. Now, you don't suppose the targets of their language (gullible, ignorant, lacking discernment, [my favorite to throw at them], fooled, deceived, etc. are received the same way?
 
Baal, you pretend to know a lot when you know very little, making up ideas to fit your preconceived notions. You started writing here by viciously slandering Constance Cumbey and those who post here and distorting what we've found over the years. That is not the sign of any kind of scholar. Scholars don't open their mouths and slander even before they know what they are talking about. Now you are trying to go "Ha, ha ha. That's only a technique I use to make my point."

We Jews have a commandment which is quite important. "You shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor." If you're not familiar with the commandments given to the Jews, I suggest you look them up. Most educated people are aware of them.

I've made it a point to go to what could be called opinion bookstores in as many states as I could during the past 30 years. These included feminist, homosexual, New Age, pagan, occult, Theosophical, aftrocentric, communist, Christian, Jewish, and academic bookstores. I've gone to the meetings of these groups as well as antisemitic, Satanic, pro-life and pro-abortion meetings because I wanted to see the people involved and get their literature. I wanted to hear their speakers. Why? Because I didn't want to violate the commandment. As a result I have a huge library and many files. I started my research long before anyone could plop a keyword into a websearch and come up with ready made answers. If you bothered to read before you talked, you would have learned that Constance's papers are being archived at the University of Michigan at their request. Where are your papers being archived?

I've been acknowledged as a contributor to several academic books.

Now that I've communicated with you on these threads, I would call you an arrogant little pisher who has read a few books and now thinks he know it all. I'm sure no one has ever told you that, at least to your face.

Antisemitism was brewing for a few thousand years and all of a sudden it flared up to produce the Holocaust? What a social scientist you are!!!

Thanks heavens others are a little more thorough in their search for causes. I can just see a physical scientist saying, "Yes, we've had water all around us for many years, and one day a flood appeared, just happened. I figured it out."

In fact there was less antisemitism in Germany at the time than existed elsewhere. Jews were accepted without a problem in professional, academic and commercial areas of society. They were accepted in high society. How do I know? Because my husband's immediate family escaped Germany in December of 1938, although several members of the extended family were killed. I learned from them what when on. This was long before I knew about the New Age movement. When Constance pointed out the antisemitism in the New Age movement, I checked it out and things started to make sense.

Two areas in Germany at the time where antisemitism boiled over were the occult and homosexual communities.

Go do some field work before you continue spouting cliches. Coming here gives you an opportunity to expand your knowledge. Don't be afraid to learn something new.

Dorothy
 
"I will not remain silent in the face of such nonsense."

Did I miss something? Somebody appoint you chief cook and bottle washer at this website?

Dang.
 
7/29/2009

Baal wrote: "the current Pope who has reinstated the Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews? "

That is OK because Jews pray for the conversion of the Pope and all other nhon-Jews:

"We hope, Lord our God, soon to behold your majwestic glory WHEN ALL THE ABOMINATIONS SHALL BE REMOVED FROM EARTH AND THE FALSE GODS EXTERMINATED; when the world shall be perfected UNDER THE REIGN OF THE ALMIGHTY, AND ALL HUMANKIND WILL CALL UPON YOUR NAME... May all the world's inhabitants realize and know that to YOU every knee must bend and every tongue vow allegience. May they bend the knee and prostate themselves before YOU, Lord our God (and God of our ancestors), and give honnor to Your glorious Name. May ALL accept the yoke oif Your kingdom and may YOU reign over them speedily forever and ever. For the kingdom is YOURS, and to all eternity will You reign in glory; as it is written in Your Torah: 'The Lord shall reign forever and ever. (Exod. 15:18)' And it is said: 'The [Father] shall be King over the entire earth. On that day there shall be One Lord with One Name. (Zech. 14:9)'"

Len
 
7/29/2009

Baal wrote: "The Egyptians viewed the lamb as an emblem of innocence as did many ancient cultures. They certainly did NOT worship the lamb in any real sense of the word. Although they did use the symbolism of the ram in some of their God images. But worship? Certainly not."

You can believe what you wish. I quoted the Bible as evidence for my belief that the Egyptians worshipped lambs (among others
) and were idolators. So its is your word against the Bible's.
 
7/29/2009

Truthful Warning said... “1. Either the blood was on the door or it was not. If the blood was on the door, the destroying angel passed over. If not, the Israelites lost their first borns just like the Egyptians on that first passover night.”

The blood was that of the idolatry-committing Egyptians who, like you, worshipped a lamb.

Continued
 
Truthful Warning said... "2. The great Isaiah prophecies must not and cannot be ignored."

Right: but not in the way you think.

>>a. He was DESPISED AND REJECTED, a MAN OF SORROWS

Correct and complete translation of Isaiah 53:3: “Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account.”

The “us” and “we” are the gentile kings of Isaiah 52:15. They are talking about Israel whom Isaiah often poetically referred to in the singular as in the following:

1. 41:8 “But you, Israel My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, seed of Abraham My friend.”
2. 41:9 “You whom I drew from the ends of the earth and called from its far corners, to whom I said, ‘You are My servant; I chose you; I have not rejected you.”
3. 42:1 “This is My servant, whom I uphold, My chosen one in whom I delight. I have put My spirit on him. he shall teach the true way to the nations.” If you have any doubt about whom this refers proceed to:
4. 42:6 “I, The Lord, in My grace have summoned you and I have grasped you by the hand. I created you and appointed you a covenant people, a light of nations.” And, two sentences later, Verse 8 belies the claim that Isaiah is about to prophecy the advent of a God incarnate.
5. 42:8 “I am The Lord, that is My Name; I will not yield My glory to another, nor my renown to idols.”
6. Of the suffering Israel, 42:22 says, “It is a people plundered and despoiled. All of them are trapped in holes, imprisoned in dungeons. They are given to plunder, with none to rescue them; to despoilment with none to say, ‘Give back!’ More in 43:1ff:
7. 43:1ff “Who created you O Jacob, who formed you O Israel: Fear not, for I will redeem you. I have singled you out by name. You are Mine. When you pass through water I will be with you; through streams, they shall not overwhelm you. When you walk through fire you shall not be scorched; through flame, it shall not burn you. For I, The Lord, am your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.”
8. 43:10-12 “‘My witnesses (note plural form) are YOU,’ declares The Lord. ‘My servant (note singular form), whom I have chosen. To the end that you may take thought, and believe in Me, and understand that I am He: before Me no god was formed, and after Me none shall exist; none but Me, The Lord. Besides me NONE can grant triumph. I alone foretold the triumph and I brought it to pass. I announced it, and no strange god was among you. So you are My witnesses,’ declares The Lord.”
9. 44:1,2 “Hear now, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen!”
10. 44:6,8 “Thus said The Lord, the King of Israel, their Redeemer, The Lord of Hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is NO god but Me.--- There is no other rock; I know none.”
11. 44:21,22 “Remember these things O Jacob, for you, Israel, are My servant. I fashioned you; you are my servant. O Israel, never forget me. I wipe away your sins like a cloud, your transgressions like mist. Come back to me for I redeem you.”
12. 45:4-6 “For the sake of My servant, Jacob, Israel My chosen one, I call you by name; I hail you --- I am The Lord and there is NONE ELSE. Besides Me there is NO god.”
13. 49:3,6 “And He said to me, ‘You are My servant, Israel, about whom I will boast.’ --- ‘It is too little that you should be My servant in that I raise up the tribe of Jacob and restore the survivors of Israel: I will also make you a light of nations, that My salvation may reach the ends of the earth.”
14. 52:4,6,13,14 “‘For thus,’ said The Lord, ‘you were sold for no price, and you shall be redeemed without money. --- Of old, My people went down to Egypt --- but Assyria robbed them, giving nothing in return. --- My people shall learn that I, the One who promised, am now at hand. --- Indeed My servant shall prosper, be exalted, raised to great heights. Just as the many were appalled at him; so marred was his appearance, unlike that of man, his form beyond human semblance.”

Continued:
 
Truthful Warning said... “b. "Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son“. . ."

Another Christianized mistranslation and incorrect interpretation. Here is the correct one of Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman (not virgin) is with child (Not “will conceive”), and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.”

>>c. "O Thou Bethlehem . . ."

Micah 5:1 is about King David who was from Bethlehem:
“And you, Bethlehem Ephrathah-you should have been the lowest of the clans of Judah-from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from of old, from days of yore.”

Ruth was David’s great-grandmother and the Book of Ruth says: Ruth 4:11 And all the people who were in the gate and the elders replied, "[We are] witnesses! May the Lord make [Ruth] like Rachel and like Leah, both of whom built up the house of Israel, and prosper in Ephrathah and be famous in Bethlehem. 12 And may your house be like the house of Perez, whom Tamar bore to Judah, with the seed that the Lord will give you from this maiden."

>>It is also important to remember the Zechariah prophecies "THEN THEY SHALL MOURN HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED . . ."

Another incorrect and misinterpreted Christianized version of Zech. 12:10: ‘And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those who have been thrust through [with swords not nails], and they shall mourn over it as one mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son. ‘

Chap. 12 is about saving of Jerusalem which was destroyed on Jesus’ watch.

The prophecies ARE being fulfilled; but not in the way you think.

Len
 
Either we get the Baal rant about - just about anything - or we get Len's (yet again) anti christian rant -
 
Dorothy:
You clearly indicate your ignorance and as to contributing to books they certainly can't be fit to paper a bird cage if the "information" you have gleaned is in them.

Yes, Antisemitism was worse the farther east you went. Regardless of your husbands family history it is not indicative of the general experience of Jews in pre WWI Germany. Jews were not recieved in society. They were generally not killed in pogroms in Germany as they were is Russia which is Why Wilhelm was shocked at the events of Krystallnact.

I am beginning to think that you suffer some grievous mental illness. You surely know little of history save the most rabid paranoid conspiracy theory.

May Isis help heal your broken soul.
 
Anonymous 12:52
Len's isn't an anti-Christian rant. He only deals with the contradictions between Judaism and how it is interpreted by Christians. He doesn't speak out about Christianity unless that happens. We are allowed to defend Judaism in the US.

Use this as an analogy. If someone stole your family picture album and told others that it was a set of pictures taken by another family in another country, you would have the right to defend your family's information. If you didn't, you would not be loyal to your family.

Dorothy
 
Whatever Baal. You need to do some reading on "emotional intelligence" before you go out in public again. You can't seem to get past sticking out your tongue in response to anything you disagree with.

Dorothy
 
Hey Baal, by letting your mouth - or in this case your pen - overload your butt on this blog, you are clearly indicating your own ignorance besides stepping on your own airhose.

Moreover, if you and your ilk are an example of what is passing for "normal" and "sane" these days, I think I will remain in Dorothy's, Constance's and my Christian friends' camp and opt for "insane" or "psychotic."

( Wasn't it St. Paul who said that God uses the "foolish" to confound the "wise"? )

Your phony performance also appears to be the behavior of someone who, along with a certain partner or partners, has been up to no good on this blog and out of fear of being exposed or out of a desire to be exposed (how's that for bi-polar?) is trying divert the discussion or use the discussion to goad/manipulate certain people into behaving in a certain way.

Nice try, but you are barking up the wrong tree. Get it? Barking?
As in Dog Star? I know synchro too. I have studied under the masters - including Umberto Eco!

At least Eco's mystical programmer had the decency and good humor to include Mickey and Minnie Mouse in Abulafiah's collection of "dots" to be randomly/"acausally" "connected" in his magical mystical world of chaos cyber - magic.

I have to go for now. In the mean time I would hope that Isis does not come down and kick your sorry butt, but..........

Bwaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

.....given your failure to attract devotees, I doubt that she would even give someone like you the smoke off of last year's doggy poo!!!

The word in the streets is that even devils have their standards!
 
Hey there "Buster" (AKA "Blue God Buster")!!

You crack me up!!!!
 
To us Christians out there - whatever happened to Ephesians 4: 15 balanced with Ephesian 4:29? Or does it just not apply here?
 
7/29/2009

Anon 12:52 wrote: "we get Len's (yet again) anti christian rant"

Correcting errors in Bible citation/interpretation is not anti-Christian. I support Christians when they are attacked and am grateful for their support of Israel.

If you disagree with my intepretations I am open to discussion.

But my pet peeve is distorting God's word to missionize Jews. If you consider correction such distortions "anti-Christian" then you are an antisemite.

Len
 
The new testament is not a "mis-interpretation" of the old testament.
 
7/30/2009

Anon 7:29 AM (who doesn't have enough courage even in a mostly-Christian blog to use even a screen name) wrote: "The new testament is not a 'mis-interpretation' of the old testament."

It is three things: A direct copy of the Tanakh when it is good; and either a misinterpretation or direct contradictiion when it is not good. If Jesus could talk, he would agree with me.

When Jesus said that he or she who changes even "one dot," "one little stroke" of the Tanakh, "he who infringes even one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same," he or she "will be considered the least in the kingdom of heaven" he would have applied this to the redactors of the New Testament, if not the apostles themselves.

The New Testament is chock full of such changes and infringements. I have noted many of these in prior messagess and called some of them to attention recently on this very thread with respect to Isaiah, Micah, Zechariah and Ruth.

But they are just the tip of the iceberg. If you disagree, cite your reasons. Blanket statements are a waswste of space and peoples' time.

Len
 
7/30/2009

I apologize for my typographical errors. It is not because I don't know how to spell. I have essential tremor and have problems using a keyboard. I try to edit but sometimes, in my haste, some errors slip through; such as double letters and spurious letters. Usually readers can read through these errors and I have not had to issue corrections so far.

Len

I beg your indulgence.
 
7/30/2009

Joyce wrote: "It would have been impossible for Yeshua to be crucified the day after the real Passover seder because that would have been the sabbath of Unleavened Bread in which it would have been forbidden to crucify Him as it is also a sabbath.. "

Dear Joyce,

Since when did the Romans observe the Passover or Sabbath???

And when did Jews crucify anyone at all? Crucifixion was not a Sanhedrin punishment; only beheading, burning (molten lead down the throat), stoning and strangling.

The Talmud says that executing someone once in (about 90 I think) years made for a murderous court.
 
Hi Dorothy,

You refer to an article by a Peter Staudenmaier as a source on anthroposophy.

For some comments on the reliability of his writings in relation to the sources he refers to, see

- On the stories by Peter Staudenmaier

- A detailed analysis by Daniel Hindes of the paper by Peter Staudenmaier that you refer to and

- Peter Staudenmaier on the importance of
the truthfulness of his published writings ...


Also, for more on the allegations propagated by Peter Staudenmaier and the WC, a small anti-Waldorf fringe group in SF, with regard to anthroposophy, see

- Myth: "Anthroposophy and Rudolf Steiner are anti-Semitic"

Greetings,
 
As for the views by Mosse himself (in contrast to Staudenmaier):

"Theosophy itself was not racist, but eventually racism allied itself with theosophy. Theosophy could, in fact, also support a new humanism. Rudolf Steiner's Anthroposophical Society, founded in Berlin in 1913, linked spiritualism to freedom and universalism."

Mosse, George. Toward the Final Solution: A History of European Racism. New York: Howard Fertig, 1978. Page 96.
 
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