Tuesday, November 10, 2015
New Age leader Jeremy Rifkin wrote THE EMERGING ORDER God in the Age of Scarcity (1979). It was co-authored with Ted Howard. The mass paperback Ballantine Epiphany edition had the following Christian endorsements:
- J. Edward Hakes, Dean, Trinity College
- John Bernbaum, Christian College Consortium
- Myron Westphal, Philosophy Department Chairman, Hope College
- Bishop James Armstrong, President, National Council of Churches
- Gilbert Bilezikian, Professor of Bible, Wheaton College
- John W. Alexander, Past President, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship
For my personal analysis of Rifkin's theology and works, consult my chapter "A SECRET KINGDOM" in my second book, A PLANNED DECEPTION: THE STAGING OF A NEW AGE MESSIAH. Here is an online link to a free downloadable edition from Internet Archives, org.
I believe based on what I have seen so far that the concerns coming to me from as far away as New Zealand and as close as Pontiac, Michigan are legitimate. Therefore, I'm recommending the viewing and downloading of Andrew Strom's videos. I noticed that his obviously professionally produced documentaries were available without charge and reproduction was urged. I like that! I can't conceive of any legitimate Biblical prophet of old saying "send me $39.95 and I will send you my prophecy video of the month."
Please watch and many thanks to New Zealand and Pontiac, Michigan -- far and near to home, for putting me onto these issues.
The video above is just the pre release promo for the full version.
Andrews working on the final full version of the video as we speak and it will be around 15minites in length and I know its contents is going to shock you.
Hopefully all going well it will be up on youtube in 2-3 weeks.
Andrews newsletters go out regularly and he will advise people pre release at www.revivalschool.com.
Most of the chapter titles relate to abuses of quantum theory that I am all too familiar with after 25 years of beating against this stuff. How many of the authors could actually solve the Schroedinger equation for a harmonic oscillator? That's the simplest nontrivial quantum calculation there is.
I have said this elsewhere but before you comment take a look at the website promoteing the heretical and occultic book "The Physics of Heaven" at http://www.heavensphysics.com and be prepared.
Andrew and I have been in lengthy discussion over this when prepareing the new video because many people seem to take little notice of the warnings we have given wanting written proof of their new age teachings... finally this book has them on the record.
I have spoken to people who thought Bill Johnson and Bethel were fine until they visited the site and saw the blatant deception.
Occultic and new age beliefs and practises are touted as lost treasures and signposts etc to the church.
Be assured the actual books full content is way worse than the sites promotional quotes.
Don’t take my word for it … please be on guard and look for yourselves at the website and comment.
I think many of you will say that Andrews could say way more as to how bad this really is.
For lack of a better term I think its like " Spiritual Adultery" for any christian to indulge in these things…. aren’t we meant to be the temple of the Holy Spirit and to have nothing to do with the works of darkness and not to even speak of those things done in darkness.
In the New Testment people who became Christians who had formerly been in the occult took their witchcraft books, piled them up and burnt them.
They didnt search (the books) for so called treasure because they knew they were full of satanic lies.
Saul was king and then sort out a witch rather than God… what was the outcome… the Word of God is very clear on the matter..Don’t have any thing to do with witchcraft and the occult ever!.
If you think non charismatic churhes will be safe... think again the contemplative prayer, soaking etc message is already doing the rounds now ... roots of most of this is Kabalah, Kundalini and New Age mystical practises and teachings re engineered to deceive the church.
The other new element of the move is in the area of worship ...If you listen to christian radio in all likelihood you have listened to or will be even singing songs by Bethel's "Jesus Culture".
How many of the people now being entertained by the top charting music actually know Bethels teachings,
Will the wide acceptance of their music create a pathway for wide acceptance of there false teachings and practises?.
I am looking forward to your comments.
Christians and how someone is murdered somewhere in the world every ten minutes; on account of their Christian faith. I was so glad to hear it finally being discussed and I was glad to hear how he used Bible references as well as data from numerous sources
about how it's practically "open season" on Christians in many parts of the world. I thought; why has this taken so long? He continued with how you won't hear any of this from the TV media or the print media, etc. I'm saying Amen, amen!
Then he says, essentially, so please log on to Saddleback.com or what ever it is, and I realized that it was Rick freaking Warren.
VERY DECEPTIVE, from the guy who wants to combine Islam with Christianity and call it Chrislam, or some such abomination.
I wanted to vomit.
If Bill were the antichrist, then Mark Chironna is his false prophet.
Here Mark defines the NewAge as being rightfully owned by the Christan.
Here us his message recently given at Bethel, 'If It Wants To Happen, It Needs To Be Spoken'
Beside preaching NewAge theology, he bastardizes scripture, and creates his own version on the fly.
Thanks for the link.
With the amount if false teaching being promoted we can easily miss something.
I have noticed that it pays to copy things as they can disappear or be edited (sanitised) at times.
Had some feedback today that we should hold off releaseing the video because of thanks giving and the pre Christmas crazy season will have everyone pre occupied... whats your thoughts.
Not being based in America I didnt even think about the timeing aspect.
Ultimately Andrew will make the decision.
Thanks for the valuable addition to our knowledge base. I was unfamiliar with this particular ministry, Mark Shironna. It reminds me so very much of what we used to sarcastically refer to as "Brag it and bag it" or by them "Name it and Claim it." Ken Copeland was a particularly bad offender in this area. I have a tape of him saying, "you don't have a god inside of you, you are one."
Why wait to air it?
A mockery has been made of those things too.
Maybe the concern is it being lost in the shuffle?
But whether too upplayed or downplayed, either, with wrong emphasis, our holidays ("holy days") have been made a shambles by every form of religious error for centuries.
Time is of the essence, and no time to waste is how I see it, but the Lord can and direct this timing.
Thanks for the comments.
I have no regard for holidays, and do not think that there is ever a timing issue for this stuff.
Chironna came out of the NewAge (in appearance only?) fellowship of Barbara Marx Hubbard and Deepak. He has tried to sanitize his past, but I have some files archived if you'd like them.
Dees is another provocateur following the likes of Boykin and Joyner. Pushing the likes of Islam is a threat to God's Kingdom? Why are these military men like Boykin and Dees trying to provoke the Church, except to then later proclaim the Christians as terrorists? I do not believe he is connected with NAR, but they may as well be cousins.
Edward Irving (1792-1832), was a very famous preacher in London for approximately 12 years. He started out relatively orthodox (small " o "), but fell into apostasy, as evidenced by several heresies that he held to and advanced via his extensive preaching and writings. One heretical position he held was that Christ's humanity had a "sin nature" (which is a clever, Satanic attack on the deity of Christ). He also taught that the speaking in tongues (a new phenomenon at that time) and the interpretation (in English)thereof was actually the "voice of God" which resulted in "new revelations." In defiance of God's strict warning in Revelation 22: 18 & 19. More can be said about Irving, but I will stop here.
The main point re: Irving and the beginnings of tongues, visions, etc. is that the Charismatic Movement had its beginnings in HERESY. God is NOT the author of confusion, and He certainly is not the author of adding to His sealed revelation, or "revealing" things to people that are contrary to His Word.
.... I have to run out now ... more on the real beginnings of the Charismatic Movement later.
Jesus Culture: The Next Generation of Heretics from Bill Johnson's Bethel
You wrote that the Charismatic Movement had its beginnings in HERESY. God is NOT the author of confusion, and He certainly is not the author of adding to His sealed revelation, or "revealing" things to people that are contrary to His Word.
The New Testament church was both charismatic and evangelical. So should the church be today. The charismatic movement is a mixed bag but some of it is of God and we should be careful not to "throw out the baby with the bathwater". Prophecy IS one of the ministries of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12. God's word to all of his people is complete in the New Testament, but he still sends prophets into specific local situations.
Abuses are certainly to be noted-by all means--but not all of who may be considered charismatics are given over to another spirit. Many are genuine and love the Lord and are moved by His Spirit.
Quenching the Spirit can also lead to abuse of scripture and some who could be considered as "frozen chosen" whomevers aren't led by Him either.
God knows those that are His. We may not know them as we think we do so we should be discerning and careful.
God has given us that Book the Bible to guide us and His Spirit in those who truly believe Him to know what He has revealed and also those things yet to be revealed.
Perhaps you are unaware that Andrew Strom himself identifies as a charismatic.
In the articles I've written I've differentiated between charismatics and "hyper-charismatics."
At 49:09 Chironna states the fairly typical hyper-charismatic claim that Jesus maintained all divine attributes yet functioned entirely as a man reliant upon the Spirit (though some claim that Jesus actually lacked some divine traits during His earthly ministry, which is explicit heresy – and I’ve determined that Bill Johnson teaches this). That does not jibe with historic orthodox Christianity.
At around 49:34 Chironna claims that Jesus “had to grow in faith.” While some have claimed that Jesus gradually grasped His role, I’ve not heard anyone make the claim that He actually grew in faith. Faith in what or whom?
You wrote that "Chironna states the fairly typical hyper-charismatic claim that Jesus maintained all divine attributes yet functioned entirely as a man reliant upon the Spirit... That does not jibe with historic orthodox Christianity."
Never mind about church history; can you knock that claim over using only scripture? I am willing to be educated.
Yes, I think Scripture makes it plain that Jesus used His own divine attributes. First of all, for those who appeal to Philippians 2:6-8, I wish to point out that Paul here is making a comparison between believers who should ‘in humility consider others better than themselves’ by looking to the interests of others (vv. 3-4). Within this framework Paul instructs believers to have the same attitude as Christ (v 5). With this in mind one cannot then construe that Paul was talking about divine attributes in 6-8. These verses should be compared to the prologue of John’s Gospel (1:1-18) in which the divine Word (1:1) became flesh (1:14). There is not a hint that when the Word (the 2nd ‘Person’ of the Trinity) added flesh to Himself that the result was any diminution of divine attributes or that the Word no longer utilized these attributes.
A somewhat imperfect analogy can be made to the Holy Spirit-indwelt Christian. Just as we wouldn’t think that the Spirit is in any way diminished when He comes to make His home in the newly-indwelt Christian, we shouldn’t suppose that the Word’s new mode of existence as the Word-made-flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ would necessitate any sort of “self-emptying” of divine attributes either intrinsic to His Person (ontological kenosis) or through their outworking (functional kenosis). When the Spirit works in and through a Christian we recognize that these powers are in no way diminished by our humanity; so, why would we suppose that when Jesus’ divine nature works in and through His human nature that there would be some sort of diminution?
By the context, the very first miracle makes it plain that Jesus used his own intrinsic power to change the water into wine:
This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory. And his disciples believed in him (John 2:11, ESV).
If we were to suppose that Jesus performed the miracle at Cana using the Spirit’s power, then would we suppose that when the Spirit work’s through the Christian that this would reveal the Christian’s glory?
Since I’m currently working on an article which touches on this issue, I’ll copy and paste a portion here. The following references John 5:19-29:
The Son of God makes various claims of sharing in divine functions with the Father: The Son indicates that His works are performed through His dependence on the Father, as He “sees” His Father, and “whatever the Father does the Son does also” (19). This implies a unity between Father and Son. The Father shows the Son “even greater works” (20), to include the ability to raise the dead and give life (21). The Son of God has been entrusted with judgment (22), to include salvation unto eternal life (24-25), both contemporaneous with his interlocutors (24-25) and in the future, eschatological resurrection-judgment (28-29). That is, Jesus’ words are describing both inaugurated eschatology (24-25) and consummated eschatology (28-29). The former centers on earthly belief or non-belief in Jesus in response to His words, the latter the eternal consequences – positive or negative – of this temporal choice (cf. 3:15, 17-18, 12:47-48).
Note that “no one sees God” (John 1:18) and lives (Exodus 33:20); this implies Jesus’ unity with the Father in a sense that no man had/has. Jesus has been entrusted with all judgment (pro and con), which clearly indicates He used divine prerogatives during His earthly existence, as v 24 indicates that those who believed in Him at the time of His earthly ministry gained eternal life, with v 25 making it clear that that time had already come (“time is coming and now is” - νῦν ἐστιν, nun estiv). By looking closely at the context, one can see that vv 24-25 are indicating then-present salvation, while, in contrast, 28-29 are yet future eschatological resurrection-judgment: positively, the full consummation of salvation for believers and, negatively, the ultimate condemnation of those who rejected Christ.
Thank you for the very helpful information on Ben Carson's advisor. I like Ben Carson, but I will confess the advice he is receiving brings to my mind the well established New Age strategy of pitting monotheistic target groups against each other.
Giving answers and spiritual insight and understanding to the religious leaders of His day that stumped them. We know also that Jesus always had that power as He was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
It is the Holy Spirit Who, like none other, takes the very Word of God to the places in our hearts and minds understanding to the point of very graciously stumping us, that we may know ourselves to be only finite, in need of a/The Savior, and only God Infinite, with that very power to save, as the Son of Man acquainted with our griefs, and Son of God, the Holy Lamb given to the world as the purchase price of our salvation.
I visited Christine Erikson's blogspot tonight and added my comment to her column reviewing David Livingstone's book TRANSHUMANISM. As promised, I've put a link to her blogspot in my links. I'm waiting for Dorothy's link, although she is welcome to post here if she likes as well as have a blogspot of her own as I have encouraged her to do for the wider dissemination of her important research.
Jesus could not do miracles where the Jews disbelieved in him (Mark 6:5); I've verified the Greek. What explanation (other than a temporary desertion by the Holy Spirit) have you for this, please?
You would have to be reprobate yourself to even come up with such a ridiculous notion.
How about this: God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all decided not to give any signs to unbelieving, stubborn
I am willing to be corrected, but please remain courteous. The Greek of Mark 6:5 is unambiguous that Jesus COULD not do miracles there, rather than that he WOULD not.
Clearly, there’s a cause (unbelief) / effect (no miracles) relationship in Mark 6:5-6. However, I ask you to more fully consider your basic premise for the “cause” of the effect (“temporary desertion of the Holy Spirit”). For the sake of discussion, I’ll temporarily assume your position that Christ performed miracles as a Holy Spirit empowered man.
As a Holy Spirit-indwelt Christian, when you encounter unbelievers you wouldn’t think the Spirit would abandon you. No, you would retain the Holy Spirit indwelling (assuming you continue in the faith). However, it may well be that the Spirit would not (could not) work through you to effect miracles due your audience’s unbelief. Hence, it would seem to follow that the Spirit would not have ‘deserted’ Jesus in Mark 6:5, but, instead, that the Spirit would not (could not) have worked through Him. [In fact, there are other ramifications to the idea that the Spirit would literally desert Jesus in such instances: E.g., while temporarily without the Spirit, could Jesus have sinned?]
This same basic scenario could work out with the conception that Jesus performed the miraculous by His divine nature working in and through His human nature. When encountering an audience with staunch unbelief, the divine nature would not (could not) work through His human nature.
Going to the Greek: The verb here, ἐδύνατο (edunato) means “to possess capability (whether because of personal or external factors) for experiencing or doing someth[ing]” (BDAG; emphasis added). The verb is in the middle (as opposed to active or passive) voice, which has no parallel in English. The middle voice “conveys more direct and active participation or involvement in the action by the subject” (Porter, et. al., p 40). In English, “the door closed” provides a sense of the Greek middle, as the closing of the door is somehow linked to the door itself (Porter, 40).
Jesus’ inability to perform miracles is indicative of the nature of His ministry rather than a ‘temporary power vacancy’ in His divine nature. His audience’s unbelief precluded his working among them...Jesus did not come as a magician or a miracle worker to display and dazzle his audience. His ‘words’ and his ‘work’ were from God (cf. 6:2). Those who rejected this inherent claim in his ministry could not experience God’s redemptive work on their behalf. Therefore, while faith does not represent the necessary cause for the effect of a miracle, miracles do not take place in the absence of faith… (Guelich, p 311; emphasis added).
Historically, the view is that the members of the Trinity work in concert with one another. What one member does, they all do. Now, of course, only one member incarnated – we couldn’t say the ‘Father became flesh’, though in a sense He did. However, it’s not my intention to derail this thread with a discussion on the Trinity, please.
It is well written and should be checked out.
Please remain courteous even though the one demanding courtesy is so rude as to hide behind anonymity whilst making the demand.
I don't owe you anything, and you don't deserve any courtesy at all.
You are not only discourteous to everyone here with your anonymous hairsplitting attempt at discrediting Jesus Christ, but you
are rude to God himself with your asinine notion of how God works his works.
Jesus said that he only does what he sees the Father doing. Ergo if the Father isn't blessing reprobates with miracles then neither
Jesus told us not to cast our pearls before swine.
While Constance permits anonymous contributions I shall not accept rebukes for using them. My only further response is: Bless you.
Is that what you call it when you attempt to tear down the faith with a pseudo intellectual loaded question?
Actually you were tearing down Jesus himself, and thereby the faith.
11:28 PM Delete
About the Founder
Erling A. Thunberg was the Founder of ICIS, the International Center for Integrative Studies, and later the guiding spirit for the ICIS project, The Door, a comprehensive multi-service center for young people in New York City.
The group that worked with him in the initial stage of translating his vision into program elements and organizational structure included E. Alice Beard, Lamar Carter, George A. Christie, Donald F. Keys and Janis A. Roze.
Born in Gothenburg, Sweden, in 1932, of Swedish and Scottish decent, he immigrated to the United States in 1965 and lived and worked in New York City until his death in 1976. He had a deep interest in the transformative processes that bring each person and humanity as a whole to the full expression of human potential. ICIS became the instrument for the multidisciplinary exploration of the constructive, dynamic, integrative and creative aspects and expressions in humanity. The Door became a model for demonstrating integrative concepts and the positive effects of a caring human community in the real world of human service delivery.
For more information on Erling Thunberg, go to his web site.
I believe Keys was pressured to leave the U.N. scene because, unlike some of his peers who advised discretion, Keys wanted to reveal the “conscious post-human intermediary of great power” that he knew to be working behind the scenes at the U.N.
In his book, “Earth at Omega: Passage to Planetization (c. 1985), Keys named the demonic entity, Djwal Kuhl in the credit/dedication. Keys moved to Mt. Shasta for the sole purpose of using the mountain’s “cosmic energy” to invite additional demonic forces to the earth so that they could “help mankind”. Keys never actually left global politics, he just narrowed his focus.
In describing the spirituality at the U.N., keys wrote:
“The UN is a place of contrast and contests. It is a place of contrast between selfishness and sharing. It is a place of contests between the narrow self-interest and the world community's good. It is the major battle line for the future of humanity's soul and collective well being. It is the locus for the emergence of higher values concerning humanity as a whole, and the rebirth of the race as a Planetary Entity, a Planetary Human Being. Therefore, from the inner side the wiring has been put in place, the energies of emergence are focused, the power for planetary transformation is available. It is even represented there by a conscious post-human intermediary of great power. It is too early yet to tell whether that promise will be recognised, accepted by humanity and acted upon or scorned. But rest assured that those of us who work there with the vision before us will continue to worship at the altar of humanity-become- whole, for you and for all.”
You wrote, Andrew Strom's Youtube.com video's on the Hindu Kundalini supernatural phenomena occurring in the Christian charismatic movement is a sign that the Christian religion is beginning to transform into an expression of the New Age religion. A few corrections are in order:
(1) While Strom’s video is new (though he’s made others with the same subject previously), the connection to Kundalini phenomena in the hyper-charismatic wing of ‘Christianity’ (placed in quotes because I’m not so sure we can label it “Christian”) has been made for quite some time. That is, it’s not exactly new.
(2) Your assertion that this is “a sign that the Christian religion is beginning to transform into an expression of the New Age religion” has it backwards. The truth is that the New Age religion has successfully made inroads into Christianity. This was an explicit goal set my Master D.K. through Alice Bailey.
In the following article (part II of a multi-part series), in which I suggest that Bill Johnson’s Christology is actually New Age rather than Christian, I touch on some of the above, even quoting Matthew Fox:
Bill Johnson’s Christology: A New Age Christ?, part II
Thanks for the link: Bill Johnson’s Christology: A New Age Christ?, part II
I suggest that all 5 parts of this piece are valid and should be read.
I also agree with you that those that seek the signs and wonders, as well as have itching ears for 'something new' have already swallowed the NewAge theology; Craig, but not all Christians have turned aside.
When you wrote: '........explicit goal set [my] Master D.K. through Alice Bailey' you really intended to type [by]?
Thanks for your comment. Certainly, "not all Christians have turned aside." However, I submit that many in these churches were never Christian to begin with.
Yes that was a typo.
I've never been a fan of Anonymous - they are part of the Occupy crowd, and of that class of people who want to destroy the current world and build another. This is a case where the enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend. But I hope they succeed anyway... :^)
As I hope for their success, I also hope that they suffer crippling "cyber-casualties" as well.
So I guess I'm wishing that they "take each other out". Cybernetically speaking, of course.
Thank you for the video clip - excellent. I also reviewed the three previous clips in the series that lead up to the fourth in the series that the above clips announces. All of them are very well done. And for those who may be in Pentecostal, Charismatic churches or heritage, the three previous clips are very essential for you to view and are also well-done -- only 9 mins each - see link below:
I have always believed that as the Church has gotten more secular and moved away from any teaching or promoting of the Holy Spirit that those who are hungry for the Holy Spirit to be at work in their lives will be attracted to heresy like that of Bill Johson. I knew Bill's father and spoke at Bethel Redding while his dad was alive. The "soul soaking," laying on the graves of famous believers to capture their "anointing," is way beyond weird and of the devil.
Dave in CA
Thanks for the feedback.
Andrews fourth episode will be a shock to many with insider footage that has been seen by very few people.
Because of the share volume of footage and info its taking quite a lot of time to process into a concise video but will be well worth the wait.
May I be so bold as to draw some parallels between the happenings at Bethel Church in Redding and the New Age community at Mt. Shasta? Hmmm....let's see now.
Bill Johnson’s Bethel Church is experiencing “miraculous” manifestations on a frequent basis... gold dust, feathers, and gemstones appearing out of nowhere...
People are falling down shaking and laughing hysterically as they move through “fire tunnels” and other blatantly occult "church" rituals...
Bethel's Dream workshops encourage participants to visualize what they want and then have faith that it will happen...
Bethel's sexy worship leader (Kim Walker) claims to have ascended into heaven and sat on the lap of the laughing Lord Jesus himself...
Graduates from Bethel’s School of Supernatural Ministry have been conducting prayer circles in the local cemetery in an effort to raise the dead…
Bethel’s youth camps forbid parental visits during their week long “anointing” and indoctrination sessions…
And meanwhile, in the occult hotbed town of Mt. Shasta, simialr things are happening....quite a few of the locals claim to have regular out of body experiences and visitations from an assortment of entities via channeling...and just like Bill Johnson, the Mt. Shasta new agers are more than willing to introduce anyone to the deeper spiritual "truths", usually via some special class made available to the initiate, for a reasonable price, of course.
I find it somewhat curious, if not amusing, that Bethel’s main Redding campus, with it’s winding driveway lined with all the flags of the nations of the world as if it were a mirror of the U.N. itself, just happens to be, from my reckoning using Google Maps, a mere 66.6 miles from the last known residence of Donald Keys. I'm sure it’s all just a coincidence. Un huh.
Donald Keys pursues his own vision of the universal family from his home down a quiet street in town. Much of his adult life had been spent leading organizations dedicated to peace and globalism. At the U.N., he wrote speeches for Secretary General U Thant and other diplomats. A prolific writer, Keys' books include "Earth at Omega" and "Disarmament: The Human Factor."
Now, the erudite gentleman's perspective is, to say the least, cosmic.
"The new frontier is inner and outer space, and they're both populated. Inner space are the dimensions we don't see with our eyes. Outer space is the populated universe at the physical level, including Earth."
"So here," he pauses, starting to smile, "we're in outer space."
His [Keys] corner of the universe is comfortable, orderly, even generic except for such details as a tabletop crystal garden and a mounted photograph--not a drawing, apparently--of a flying saucer in the Swiss Alps. The caption: "Pleiadian Variation 4."
"The Pleiadians are more than visitors", he explains. "They are friends, if not saviors."
"They have colonized Earth a number of times and they're trying to assist us in our civilization. A lot of them are very concerned about the current state of human evolution because we are right on the edge between Earth disaster or nuclear catastrophe and some form of transcendence. The ones who care about us are trying to give us a push in the right direction. Should they reveal themselves, Mt. Shasta, the cosmic portal, may play a role."
"In terms of what we might call subtle energies, Mt. Shasta is a very powerful place, it's like a beacon in space. In the words of an old text, a place where cosmic deep sounds unto cosmic deep, and that sound travels a long, long way. Consequently, it's a very good place to come in."
In my (OMOTS) humble opinion, if "they" choose to reveal themselves, Bethel Church, as a "cosmic portal", may also play a role.
Oldmanoftheski you mention the inner and outer space emphasis from the new age.
Bill Johnsons star pupil from Bethel (until recently) was Jason Westerfield.
Westerfield has been getting into the whole galactic thing (hard to find the info on apart from alledged astral travel to other planets and communicateing with aliens etc speculations).
I think Jason's demise shows proof of the eventual spiritual downward spiral of those engageing in new age infiltrated churches and practises whilst proporting to be christian.
Strangely Bill Johnson issued a warning about Jason but with it lacking any real detail.
I am left wondering what Jason is doing by comparison that is so bad (considering some of what Bethel promotes) that Bill Johnson would issue a warning.
If people have any solid info on what really has happened it would be appreciated
Quite a tactic to infiltrate and corrupt the churches and with a sprinkling of mica powder too! I hadn't heard about the feathers and gemstones tricks ... all mega cheap and widely available craft supplies!
~ K ~
Nothing is free, except the grace of God. Tuition to get into Bethel's School of the Supernatural is $4550. Additional expenses can easily double that.
One could save a lot of money by signing up for any number of equivalent courses at one of Mt. Shasta's numerous "new age" centers. For example, the "SHAPE Clairvoyant Reading, Healing & Deprogramming Mastery Course" is only about $2300.
Personally, I'd say Mt. Shasta is a lot more fun. The skiing on the mountain can be fabulous.
It brings to mind, Acts:18-20
Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
~ K ~
~ K ~
Yes thats Westerfield.... I think this is that first thing he has put out in a long time... thanks for finding it...it only been up for 22hours (blatanty new age ).
Go to his website he is chargeing $1500 for a one hour skipe consultation or $4000 for three hours.
How totally disgusting.
Your logic rules out quoteing anybody who has ever said something wrong at anytime regardless of whether or not what is being quoted in the present is correct when considered in isolation.
Taken to the extreme to be able to do what your suggesting properly you would have to be all knowing (know everything the persons ever said).
As an example if we apply your stance then we must totally reject the reformation because Martin Luther who was wrong in his anti semetic views (Adolf Hitler used Luthers anti semetic views in support of his hatred and nazi policies.).
As for websites I am also associated with Cultwatch.com as an advisor and Cults.co.nz... you might find somethings there to scrutinise as well for blogging fodder.
Its a shame that your continually take the blog (yet again) off topic.... those12 days went quick.
A) 1- 10
B) 20- 30
C 30- 50
D) 50- 100
Yes sadly the 12day fast is over and Mocking J part 2 begins (not to be confused with a movie of the same name).
Mohamad believed himself to be demon possesed. (If there ever was a Mohammad.) Jesus fully understood demonic possession and cast out demons. It did not confuse Jesus.
Horrace, Isis, worshiping Alice Bailey said the moslem religion would serve a purpose.
Is the "vicar of christ" really confused or is he using the moslem religion to dehumanize "terrorists. ..fundementalists..extremists. ...racists...spiritual racists...aka ...Protestants ...."
I am sad to think that I am the only one who noticed this Hitler language of coming from the papacy and posted boldly on faux news.
The Agenda 21 meetings are in Paris, they might have needed a message like, -believe the bull crap or we will send in the Isis team- Just like a spoonful of sugar, it helps the global warming bull crap go down.
And even the hardened observer like me believes that people died this time so please God comfort the families, ALL the families, amen.
That a spoonful of terror helps the development go down, the agenda go down, the change go down
Yes a spoonful of terror helps the Nazi plans go down, in the most horrific way
Before the Paris attack.
I love your tongue in cheek humor here. Very effective to make your well taken points. I didn't know Donald Keys had died. His underlying influence in the New Age Movement was vast and he seemed to be active on all fronts before making his own exit to Mt. Shasta.
Can you give us a link with information about his death in 2008? Marilyn Ferguson died, as I recall, in 2010.
She is not here to learn and discern. It is indeed all about her, as you noted Paul.
Was that a full 12 days? I think not.
And 12 months before her return for more pouncings would have been too soon.
Just when the blog was getting the hang of real discussion again..
Lutherans and Methodists and spiritual racists, oh my.Mr Palmer what a mouth you have!
Have you not heard of the post protestant era? (Post-modern says the charasmatics) The brotherhood (one world religion) is now more important than the "bread" (your personal communion with Christ). You know when they (Grant) smash away at Luther they seek the new age. The Jews Luther spoke of were the ones from Revelations who say they are Jews and are not. Hitler modeled his Holy Roman Empire the Third Reich after the SJs.
and or http://tinyurl.com/p3gghpg
and read the chapter "A Secret Kingdom" -- there is a sizeable portion of that chapter devoted to the MSOG/Sonship (now known as New Apostolic Reform) movement and its basic teachings as I observed them while writing that book.
Hating Luther 101, so called potty mouth post protestant er eh post modern pastors, works driven er eh purpose driven, er eh mission driven men, Sola scriptura, well they call for it and hate it in the same charasmatic posting. Rebuilding churches? Chuch planting? Global and diverse? Social justice (see Karl Marx) Leading people to church not Christ? Led Zeppelin on open mic night? Alberto Rivera taught us charasmatics are the SJ conterfit replacement for the impenetrable pentecostals. It's working and churches are burning down now in the USA.
What is this book, --dedicated to the lord shiva, god of destruction right at the front of the book- telling us? (Shiva gets a whole page in the front) Could it be how to gleen information about incrementally gaining control over the nations when terrorism is applied? Are we reading individual chapters on false flags or are they just religious extremists .....who tend to help out in the developmental of nations? We report, you decide. Oh yes, nobody cares, I know, nevemind.
She has a real knack for obscuring the truth when she treats this blog like a punching bag.
Her tone is awful and the truth misrepresented too often by just that feature that alone.(my bet is others here would come up with the same info and share it, though not sitting ready to pounce at the computer because they have actual lives, so not make the postings they share about them). She loves to beat others to that "punch" then, don't you suppose?
Even in the event she may be right, she takes things to the wrong place. (and it's not that often if you will view this without the partialities because she's been caught wrong and proven so multiple times)
And we don't get used to it so we can overlook it, because it is flat uncivil.
She is no friend to your blog, no matter what you think she knows.
Maybe you can persuade her to take some anger management courses.
And Ken Copeland is with Pope Francis his message ....filmed by Mr. Ton Palmer Luther hater
So what happens (and meaning 'who') after that?
2 Thess tells us what to expect.
"Prior to the attacks, several side events and at least one large-scale protest and march through the city center had been planned."
Yeah, like don't tall even think about it. Definition of evil and petty please.
Go harvest among those who are white unto harvest, praying first to the Lord of the harvest so the Spirit can show where the true wheat is. He will not chide or upbraid for the asking but will supply that wisdom. James 1:5
ALBERTO RIVERA, so sorry to tell you, was a documented liar who fabricated most if not all of his stories. English researcher and author ROY LIVESEY was the one who wanting to believe Rivera tracked down the sources, documents and then was courageous enough to tell the truth.
Alberto Rivera was never a Jesuit nr even a Roman Catholic priest of any type. He did belong to something named "Catholic," to wit, the LIBERAL CATHOLIC CHURCH. That was a branch of the Theosophical Society and was founded by Charles Webster Leadbetter, an apostate Anglican who had little trouble leaving the faith of his fathers to go serve "the masters."
In my youth, I was once the Senior Spelling Champion of Huntington County, Indiana and am very sensitive to spelling errors. For the record, the word spelled here by some as "charasmatic" should instead be spelled C-H-A-R-I-S-M-A-T-I-C."
Not meaning to be petty, but things look so much better if properly spelled,
In reply to anonymous 10.43am
You make a totally wrong assumtion.
I am not anti Martin Luther .... actually read my comments to Christine at 0609am.
I was pointing to Christines fault finding logic and how if taken to the extreme Christines logic (not mine) demands you must not quote someone who may be right in one area who has been wrong in another.
Applying Christines logic (not mine) you would have to discredit in totality all of what Martin Luther taught because of the anti semetic views he espoused vs the bulk of his work that was a major help and drive of the reformation.
Again I repeat I don't disagree with the bulk of Martin Luthers work but I do disagree with his anti semetic views that fueled racial hatred towards the Jewish people.
To link my non support of Luthers anti semetic views to the New Age is straight out garbage how would you feel if people started branding you a Nazi or Anti Semite because you quote Martin Luther.
Anyway at least I dont hide behind annonimity
Regardless of race or creed we are all made in Gods image, its Gods desire for the Gospel to be preached so that if we repent and turn to Him we are saved.
Also I do not agree with NAR and Manifest Sons of God teaching and have done way more to fight it than anyone here would give credit for checkout www.cultewatch.com Christine.
Be careful who you quote guys Christines on the prowl to blow everything out of context.
Constance quotes New Age loons all the time but it doesnt me she agrees with them.
The horse speaks and this is his church was well under RCC control by the sixties. This at least puts the origin of the movement in the lap of the RCC.
Well, it's better than reading Grant's deceptions or team Christine's rants. If they are who they claim to be.....
My take is that they know charismatic thinking, transformational leadership, and zombies without scripture to guide them will cause fascism. Fascism another Italian invention. You thought the boomers were Marxists, meet the millinials and their global church. They could beat you for not helping to end poverty 2030.
The best explication is done by Chris above. There is a link on his name in the post to an outstanding mp3 put your thinking caps on.
"She is not here to learn and discern."
Erikson replies: "correct, I am here to inform"
Proof you have everything TO learn and discern, but refuse to do so, and in some small happenstance that you might be right you are still arrogantly Wrong by virtue of your nastiness and pride.
A broken clock gets the time right only twice a day but your record isn't that good!
You ain't God, Mary Erikson.
Constance, why do you put up with her self-aggrandizing (anti-christian more like sharia) behavior and it's bad effect on this place?
Real discussion was going great until she pounced (posted).
If so right on and good why are so many missing these days?
You attack. You do not inform.
You need a job....and a life.
Posting is not working and earning your (or your resident occultist boyfriend whatever) keep in this world.
Holy cow!!!! Thanks guys I missed this one. And there it is....lol!
Actually I think I own around 32+ domain names.
In Bill Hendersons video he does quote Bill Hamon where Bill Hamon is consistant with scripture.
Bill Hendersons videos are aimed at the Charismatic movement in an effort to have things done biblically and in order... do I have total agreement with Bill Henderson in all matters No! should he have included a quote from Bill Hamon! maybe not if it makes people think he in Bill Hamons camp... but this is the first time anyone has said that and the videos have been up for ages.
Perhaps he should not have said it was a quote from Bill Hamon, but in defense of Bill Henderson at least the man tells you the quote source unlike the many posts you have laced from time to time with other peoples work (perhaps is this because they shouldnt be openly quoted under the Christine method of exclusion.. so to avoid showing hippocrisy you dont say where its from).
Do you know Christine that people can now run a programme over any electronic document to find plagerism... the Universities use it to catch thesis cheats.
Christine under the degrees of seperation theory everyone on planet is connected by a chain of relationship that has no more than five intermidiares.... even less then in religious circles because its a smaller pool.
So whow you have the perfect method of labelling anybody you choose by guilt of association as the degrees of seperation theory shows.
I am connected to heaps of people I dont completely agree with but when they are right I have to give them whats due... its called life!.
Someone else I know was accused of keeping the company of taxcollectors and prostitutes, He even drank wine!
Can you tell us who your friends are so we can do a search?
Gosh I have plenty of non christian friends, yes I am a friend to sinners....how else can you have any chance of bringing them to Christ.
I have told you before and was trying to be very gracious... you need to deal with your judgemental unforgiveness towards your Mother thst you have openly expressed on this blogg site many times... it colors your views very badly and is showing in your constant mistrust of everyone and everything, if you presume bad intentions in everything your will find something because you are trying to determine motives rather than biblical truth from flawed position.
No ones perfect yet ... follow Jesus Christs example.
Please can you get some help theres plenty of good people out there.
Dennis Bennet-Peter Drucker-Rick Warren-Mark Driscoll-Ed Stezer-Darrin Patrick local transformational leader possible leadership trail???...this is what is happening at ground level USA above link to video on how they do it.
7 area churches burn almost all Protestant. ..
Never mind they are replanting more, Amazon comment states that Patrick's book is mega church buys little church (coporate model).
Riflin and Drucker's theories as they relate to each other in a newer post.
You have my pity for your blindness.
Is very obvious your discernment is not from the Spirit of God.
Hebrews 5:14..."them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use HAVE
SENSES EXERCISED TO DISCERN BOTH GOOD AND EVIL."
You are wise in evil things. That explains why you divulge evil in such gratuitous detail and accuse the brethren continually.
And what do you have to say about Roy Livesey and his research uncovering Rivera's links with the Liberal Catholic Church?
You said "Riflin" and "Drucker". I think after looking at your source article that you instead were referring to JEREMY RIFKIN and Drucker.
You continuely disparge your mother whom God ordained you woild be born from and in whos whom He formed you.
Do you live off a financial inheritance from your Mother?.
Whats some of the redeeming features of your Mum?
Think about it instead of being so negative and taking over this blog.
In just a couple of posts you have managed to get this off topic ... was that your agenda?
Probably not you just want attention
Maybe she will beat her record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-CE7nKke9g&sns=em Hitler's plan to eliminate Christianity. (for those who argue he was really a Roman Catholic, infant
baptism does not Catholicism a person make.)
http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/tag/dr-lawrence-dunegan/ the doctor who gave the lecture exposed was part of planned parenthood. I DO NOT ENDORSE ANYTHING BUT
THESE ARTICLES NECESSARILY that are at these sites.
one anon wrote "I have yet to find sites doing an excellent and honest job of exposing New Age politics. Has anyone found any?"
http://www.christianinformation.org/article.asp?artID=48 glanced at briefly
POWER QUEST BOOK TWO: THE ASCENDANCY OF ANTICHRIST IN AMERICA by S. Woodward 7.99 on kindle at amazon.com, includes information about the Nazis and Americans working together. Includes some disputable ritual abuse issues, but shows that Mengele's
diary is blank for the time he was reportedly in the USA according to some mind
control victims. which lends their story credibility. MKULTRA spawned a hellslew of subgroups the term can be used as an umbrella term for the lot, but at the same time someone not being in papers from MKULTRA itself doesn't mean he wasn't in one of the other operations. For background on the occult infestation of America from the start, read
POWER QUEST: BOOK ONE.
Read Acts 2:38-39
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all who are far off, even as many as the Lord our God will call to himself.”
The first verses 20 verses of the chapter prove that baptism in the Holy Spirit wouldnt end in the first two hundred years...
18 Yes, and on my servants and on my handmaidens in those days, I will pour out my Spirit, and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the sky above, and signs on the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and glorious day of the Lord comes.
21 It will be that whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
Are you saying " the great and glorious day of the Lord came in 200AD" ending the gifts?.
Theres a distinct difference between highlighting errors in the extreme charismania crowd versus totally righting off the baptism in the Holy Spirit and the biblical gifts of the Holy Spirit.
God spoke through a Ass to rebuke Baleem a false prophet and Gods more than willing to speak through His people but he doesnt have them acting like an Ass because He is a Holy God... the Holy Spirit is Holy... much of the false things we see are certainly not Holy and go against the Holy nature of God and His word because they dont originate from Him either they are of the flesh or demonic origins.
and not all relate to the same time frame. Babylon was totally destroyed, but over
time not by Cyrus. By the last few centuries BC it was pretty much a ruin. By the
1800s the as yet not western educated Bedouin wouldn't camp there by night, it was
haunted. Just like God said in the prophecy. That doesn't mean a later Babylon
similar might not develop and face the same end.
Ok with such a hotchpotch of cessationism, post millenalism, weird graveyard comments and other things in your posts over the last few months its actually pretty hard to work out what you believe.
As for tongues only being a known language why is there a reference to a man speaking both in the tongues of men and of angels in 1 Corinthians 13King James Version (KJV)
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Paul didnt trash tongues at all he was saying in my opinion that it is better and indeed prefered to speak in a tongue people understand and if that wasnt the case and a unknown tongue be spoken publicly it be interpreted.
This differs from praying in tongues privately as the Holy Spirit gives utterance which Paul claims he did more than those he was immediately speaking to.
"Abberant charismania, NAR false world takeover rubbish plus the endless eccessive behaviour and now the new age doctrines that have and are invadeing the charismatic and pentecostal movements (and spreading) must be judged against the body of the scriptures, that is without dispute."
I am not making excuses for any of that stuff and make efforts to expose it at its source but I wont dismiss the gifts of the Holy Spirit He choses to give to the body of true believers because of the false and abberent.
Going to the extreme you do of writing off true gifts of the Holy Spirit due to the things I have mentioned in the speech marked paragraph above is going beyond the scriptures or probably more accurately said denying the typical biblical New Testament believers experience portrayed in the scriptures for today.
The devilish purpose of the false is to discredit the true and it seems to be working.... Bethel takes that even one step futher by advocateing going to the false (the New Age and Occult) to recover the lost treasures to the church, how bad is that.
I thought on the one hand you may have been dismissive of anything of spiritual a nature (by your comments dismissing unknown tongues as being of the Holy Spirit) but you then go on to make a reference to Babylon ghosts.
Thats a pretty odd reference when the conversation was on the Holy Ghost.
Please except my apologies for replying to Christines copious comments,
They appear to be never ending and are probably best to be ignored rather than reply to them.
Any comment seems to only fuel the arguementative off topic fire that eventually ensues every blogg comment.
Thanks all for some good info over the twelve days of on topic conversation it was really of value... shame its gone.
I'll now "leave it to beaver" (only the oldies will get that quip).
The Bible is the inspired Word of God... SHOW IT SOME RESPECT BY CHOOSEING YOUR WORDS MORE CAREFULLY!
Your wrong to suggest that ... very very wrong.
Christine you say "I believe what the Bible says, and I guess I am more acquainted with it than a lot of you are".
For someone professing to be more acquainted with the Bible than a lot of us how can you debase Gods Word by suggesting the Apostle Paul could be using exaggeration... its inspired by God and God doesnt exaggerate.
make a point. I doubt many if any people actually tooted a trumpet announcing they
were giving a beggar some money in the example Jesus gave probably referring to
their talking about it a lot, or making a big display while doing so.
Benson commentary suggests some did this literally to draw beggars to be sure all
saw them give alms, but Jesus said "As the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in
Elicott notes " the best scholars have found no trace of any such practice in Jewish literature, and it is hardly credible that such a thing could have been done in the synagogues; and (2) seems hardly adequate to the active meaning of the verb. There is no reason, however, for taking the words so literally. The figure of speech which describes a vain man as being “his own trumpeter,” or making a “flourish of trumpets” about his own acts, has been, or might be. common in every country where trumpets have been used."
Pulpit Commentary "Do not sound a trumpet (μὴ σαλπίσῃς). Probably a purely metaphorical expression (cf. our "He is his own trumpeter"). Edersheim, 'Temple,' etc., p. 27 (cf. Schottgen) sees rather in it an ironical allusion to the form and name of the treasure-chests in the court of the women. "The Lord, making use of the word 'trumpet,' describes the conduct of those who, in their almsgiving, sought glory from men as 'sounding a trumpet' before them - that is, carrying before them, as it were, in full display one of these trumpet-shaped alms-boxes (literally called in the Talmud, 'trumpets'), and, as it were, sounding it." This interpretation would have been less fanciful if the substantive had been used instead of the verb. Others (e.g. Calvin, Bengel) have taken it of a literal trumpet; but of this practice there is no evidence whatever. "I have not found, although I have sought for it much and seriously, even the least mention of a trumpet in almsgiving" (J. Lightfoot, 'Hor. Hebr.'). "
I want to warn you of a trap. It is a snare that we all must be aware of. We can so busy ourselves in doing God’s work and learning His Word that we can actually miss HIM.
Jesus said, "Search the Scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me, And ye will not come to me that ye may have life.” (John 5:39+) It is not merely Scripture that gives us life…it is the Person behind the Scripture that gives us life. It’s Jesus that gives life. The Scripture shows us how to turn to Him by repenting if our sins.
"Ever learning” means you read the Bible, study it, and believe it to be true, but even the devils know and believe (James 2:19) so knowing and believing isn’t enough! What it means to "come into the knowledge of the truth” is to experience the truth in your heart! That means you experience Jesus, the Living Word, the Word wrapped in flesh, the Truth, the Way, the Life in your heart as the Scripture is opened to you and becomes an experience to you!
The Bible is alive and active! (Hebrews 4:12) It’s not just another book to read and learn from.
so called mother, the main means by which she accomplished much evil. There are
other matters I'm not getting into.
Indeed the Bible is alive and active. But if you don't read it like another book
to read and learn from and take as seriously as you would a history or math book,
you won't get that alive and active effect except God intervenes. some treat it
as merely something packed with myths and occasional cues for archaeological
As she says she knows more about the Bible than us
So how could she be wrong then.
Wait for more long winded self exalting justifications rather than saying sorry I made a mistake.
I can research the liberal Catholic Church even if it is a bit of a waste of time Constance but the romans have fronts of all sorts and knights of all sorts doing things that are intelligent operations and distractions and deceptions of types. I have now understood that, I the representative of Eve have NO chance of outsmarting Luci and crew, despite all day research. I have only what my obedience to the Lord rewards me in understanding things and not a speck more. But as for now I believe Rivera, even if he is not necessary anymore for proof of a merger and the Italian source of the replanting universal, global fascist amway religion. Rifkin praises Pope Francis on his Facebook page: https://m.facebook.com/jeremy.rifkin/posts/10206965020153640
I delt with a man who mapped the crusades and he left out ww2 which the Holy Roman Empire (third Reich ) did call a crusade consider the unecessary need to bomb Dresden and consider her population of Protestant Lutherans. It's something there.
already cited Jesus' words on the matter. of course you know better than Jesus
and the whole counsel of Scripture, and He didn't mean what He said, and the
different circumstances He dealt with are to be ignored and take one thing and
generalize to all, contrary to His practice.
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
You say your busy doing a lot of repenting... what about the confessing?
dead brother, who had died an unbeliever, and who she believed was in hell. Clearly the modern (past few hundred years) idea that there is no hope for the dead is false.
That is all the forgiving one needs to do. When I think her ghost, or perhaps her familiar with her look is trying to pull something on me I punch it in Jesus Name or grab it and fling it out the door in Jesus' Name. I will not tolerate touching
or attempts to enter my body. I will not tolerate inhabitation, I will not tolerate possession. period.
If shes getting paid for it what a boring job.
And no I dont want to clog the blog Christine seems to manage that all to well and we need to not fall for the bait.
I just wished things would stay on topic.
These the most important bits, naturally.
OK I read Roy's junk and found it lacking. Christianity today is completely lacking in credibility (for a long time i just read a book on that and Grahm and the Fuller Institute etc.) as is Metz. Despite the fact that Chick publishers push some obvious idiots even today, Rivera as at least a Jesuit trained priest though maybe not a full member is plausible. Rivera was certainly not telling the whole perfect truth at all times, since he was human and was probably shocked at how little his whistle blowing helped and how few Christians are listening. I am not convinced the liberal Catholic Church is not fully created and maintained by Rome anyway. None of this matters anyway.
Mormons pray for the dead not Christians .
Its appointed once for a man to live and die and then the judgement according to scripture.
The story of the rich man and Lazarus the beggar provides us with a vivid illustration of this truth. Jesus plainly used this story to teach that after death the unrighteous are eternally separated from God, that they remember their rejection of the gospel, that they are in torment, and that their condition cannot be remedied (Luke 16:19-31).
Sad because we would like all to turn to Jesus but not all do.
Wrong. Paul prayed for the household of Onesiphorus but not for him along
with them, which shows he is dead. Then Paul prayed for him, that God have mercy
on him on that day. (day of judgement.) 2 Tim. 1:16, 18 and again greets the
household of Onesiphorus, but does not send greeting to him (so he isn't there, he's
dead) 2 Tim 4:19
this phrasing on that day is like that of Maccabbees when they prayed for mercy
on the Day of Judgement for their dead they found secretly wore pagan amulets.
If the early church taught as you do, Perpetua would not have prayed for her dead
brother. Purgatory was a racket there is only heaven (segments) and hell (segments)
but Luther threw the baby out with the bathwater in opposing prayer for the dead.
Such notions as Luther's are absent throughout all church history.
"Its appointed once for a man to live and die and then the judgement according to scripture."
no bearing on this matter whatsoever. It is a clear refutation of transmigration/reincarnation. the time between death and THE Judgement is less now than it was then, but still a long time to go. the only settled permanent condition
at least for those not in heaven is after the Last Judgement. if it were before
that, then the angel's words in the last chapter of Revelation would mean that no
repentance could happen among the living now. There is no specification regarding
whether those referred to are living or dead.
And why doesn't it matter other than the obviousness of Biblical truth and prophacy?
Meet your grandchildren in the video above. They were raised on Hollywood entertainment and Common Core. They can't think and they love emotional experiences (think masonic rituals perfected over time)and entertainment above all study and thought truth and accountability. So we can know all kinds of truths and roots of movements but they can't hear us. I am going to tell my emergent church friend at lunch next week that I love and forgive her. I really get why the nazi thing happened, the people were completely zoned out of their minds.
If Perpetua promoted praying for the dead which you also profess to do then you are both doing something dodgy.
What version of the Bible are you using? Jesus teaching in Luke 16:19 to 30 is pretty clear as explained by the comment made at 9.26am
Abraham, showing his continuing the pattern of focus on humans and what he could
see, that he had in life and ignored the LAw and Prophets except perhaps for social
occasions. Abraham did not deny that Lazarus could go to the rich man's family, but
said he was not going to send him since it would be pointless since they would not
believe even if someone rose from the dead, a warning about unbelief happening
even after The Resurrection of Christ.
what went on later is anyone's guess. If someone saw fit to pray for the rich man,
and if God saw fit to grant the prayer, repentance by him might have occurred.
There was already a Jewish tradition of prayer for the dead, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead#Judaism so if this was pointless
then Jesus would have said so, but He said nothing against prayer for the dead.
"The Lutheran Reformers de-emphasized prayer for the dead, because they believed that the practice had led to many abuses and even to false doctrine, in particular the doctrine of purgatory and of the Mass as a propitiatory sacrifice for the departed. But they recognized that the early Church had practiced prayer for the dead, and accepted it in principle. Thus in the 1580 Book of Concord, the Lutheran Church taught:
"... we know that the ancients speak of prayer for the dead, which we do not prohibit; but we disapprove of the application ex opere operato of the Lord's Supper on behalf of the dead."
Despite this permission in Lutheranism's doctrinal standard, modern Lutherans generally do not practice prayer for the dead and sometimes outright condemn it....
John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist Church, stated that: "I believe it to be a duty to observe, to pray for the Faithful Departed".[27"
the rejection of prayer for the dead probably is from Calvinist influence which
tended to swamp Lutheran ideas.
I use the King James Version. Perpetua is part of the records that were used by
church historians so her story comes to us. protestants did not do that good a
job of getting back to basics. Find me one example of early church writers that
condemn prayers for the dead as useless.
If Perpetua PRACTICED PRAYER FOR THE DEAD then it follows that SHE WAS NOT TAUGHT
AGAINST IT and it follows that THE EARLY CHURCH PRAYED FOR THE DEAD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead#Tradition Roman catacomb
inscriptions and writers raised and trained pre Constantine (if that is your
breakpoint) showing prayer for the dead.
But didnt Christine accuse Grant earlier in the blog of being anti Luther because Grant pointed out Luthers unbiblical anti Jewish views.
I just dont get it.
I am not the one who accused Grant. but the reason you don't get it, given that
you thought that, is that you are extremist absolutist in your thinking.
someone is either totally wrong or totally right, in all cases (some few are
most are not). And therefore if I have anything good to say about Luther I am
contradicting myself if I said anything bad about him.
firstly, when he's right he's right and when he's wrong he's wrong. its not about
me, however much you think it is. Its about the Bible and Jesus Christ. and about
sorting out truth from falsehoods.
secondly, even if Luther were totally wrong, I could still bring up his opinions
to show where you got your opinions. And when you have wrong opinions, you
didn't get them from the Bible, however much you THINK you did. you got them from
Luther and mostly Calvin, filtered through many generations of teachers, their
interpretation of the Bible.
I am not pro Luther. But the fact is, HE RETAINED THE TRUTH OF THE REAL PRESENCE
OF CHRIST'S BODY AND BLOOD IN THE EUCHARIST as do more traditional Lutherans,
while Calvin and Zwingli, drawing more on the blasphemous bogomil heretical threads
sneaking into Europe, rejected this. Luther was correct in rejecting the papacy,
but he didn't really get back to basics. Meanwhile, the RC considers that there is
no salvation except in Jesus Christ, but add that to get to Jesus you have to go
through the pope.
"Technically prayers are works, God is sick of our dumb prayers, salvation is a gift no need to do works, shut up already."
If we do not do the works of faith we are rejecting salvation. Paul says to pray.
Jesus says to pray. James says if we do not have works then it proves we have no
faith (faith without works is dead).
you are not going by the Bible.
and "works" is not what you think it is. you have been taught LIES generations of
soul endangering LIES. read Galatians start to finish. does it say anything about
don't pray don't do good deeds, etc. etc. these are "works"? no.
it talks about the works of THE LAW, THE TORAH OF MOSES and specifies circumcision
and food laws and Sabbaths as does a mention of this issue in Colossians.
THOSE are the works we don't need to do. JEsus said that it is not enough to call
Him Lord, Lord we must do the will of The Father, and addresses people who call
HIm Lord at the Last Judgement as those He never knew. they were workers of iniquity. And HE describes a master coming back and his servants did not prepare
themselves, and did things worthy of lashes. And the ones who knew better and did
wrong get beaten more, and the ones who didn't know better get beaten less.
IF you believe in Jesus you will obey Him.
Now I feel you are clearly taking advantage of my good nature. I'm deleting posts after saving them - AGAIN.
Further, it is not my understanding of Catholic doctrine that to get to Jesus, one has to go through the Pope. I would love for Susanna to comment on this one.
"firstly, when he's right he's right and when he's wrong he's wrong. its not about
me, however much you think it is. Its about the Bible and Jesus Christ. and about
sorting out truth from falsehoods"
Well heres a turn around her statement above pretty much sums up my defense for owning a website that had a video of someone quoteing Bill Hamon whom in this instance said something biblically correct on the topic.
Next thing I am being accused of endorseing Bill Hamon and the NAR etc.
Well I dont, but the quote was right in a bibilical context.
"When someones right there right and when their wrong their wrong".
Some are just more wrong than right and vice a versa.
This blog is like walking through a mine field .. watch where you unintentionally step someone will go off.
So there was some contact at the very least between Dennis Bennet and the SJ. The exchanged numbers and invited him to speak. That's at least a recognition of value in his works according to their actions.
But Chritine sure is. She lives for these disruptions and the confusion she causes. Gives her something to do.
You opened the floodgate for her streaming nonsense and hatefulness to be perpetuated upon your blog and your other guests here. How does this aid your work? It doesn't, and makes this comment section a waste of time.
Didn't you notice the calm and good flow of pertinent information happening in her absence?
And have graciously lent your name to give your own credibility to her blog, so she should stay there and run it into the ground like she does over here. But that's not enough for her now is it?
One person creating havoc. Just one.
Oh yes. So we have Rita Bennet and the Vatican. I don't need Rivera, just read the Bennet''s books. Circumstantial evidence is there is buckets full.
the source was in the original post you deleted, http://herescope.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-battled-bride.html
scroll down to third Apostolic Reformation
3rd Apostolic Reformation
1988 – 40 years – 2028
•Phase 1 Prophetic Movement 1988
•Phase 2 Apostolic Movement 1998
•Phase 3 SAINTS MOVEMENT 2008
•Phase 4 Army of the Lord Movement 2018
•Phase 5 Kingdom Establishing Movement 2028"
"8. This timeline by Hamon was originally published here: http://www.bishophamon.org/2003Word/bishop/changes.html "
page not available, got it on archive.org
and sitting directly under the pyramid inside the building (where ironically they often have drum circles or tribal type music)
Interesting read about charismatic movement
"Roman Catholic Influences
Wimber gave much credence to Roman Catholic sources for establishing the validity of miracles. (Power Healing, p. 7). He contrasted the false claims of healing by "Elmer Gantrys, men and women out for material gain at the expense of the faithful," with the Catholic Church's "stringent criteria" for validating true miracles from God (Power Healing, p. 10). Wimber implied that the Roman Catholic approach to miracles was more trustworthy than that of Protestants (Power Healing, p. 11).
But why should this surprise us? Wimber's wife Carol was raised in the Roman Catholic Church."
Just one bit if this article.
And they brag away and tell you how they did it. Did they wait a whole year before posting this one? I can tell you the members of acts 29 churches have no idea the roots lead here. Oh and they don't care either and would brush it off as conspiracy lies.
So we have Knights of Malta Rick Joyner writing for Charisma Magazine here, seems that the posts are about Paris. Joyner is, again, a top player in the anti sharia movement. (With his friend Gen Boykin) sigh* so we all prefer not to have hate and deception as church values sigh*. In the Regent U video dedicated to Bennett (above) founder of Charismatic movement this magazine representative had multiple copies of the Harbinger on his book shelves and Rita Bennett in a comment on the Web linked a site with our Catholic friend Shoebat. Small world I guess and the list of global goals seems small as well. Again, why post no one gives a rats azz. Forgiveness is like my best friend and getting easier by the day. I just remember that people traded their eternal souls for these activities, very sad indeed.
OK Constance so a SJ run Liberal CC infiltrates the RCC and we have a coup. Fine with me then Alberto was a LCC and a SJ and not a RCC but now today, the LCC and the Theosopicals let's call them TS's who ran the LCC and the SJ (in occult thinking) only just now are in total control of the RCC thus making Alberto correct but not all the way.
Well, maybe but not really cause you have to include Luther's observations as well as the Waldensians, Basques, Dresdenites, and possibly the Armenians as well as the inquisition. Yeah, no, Alberto was telling the truth. The LCC story is an excuse to discredit him although he was not perfect in anyway as well as the LCC being a probably group like millions controlled by the RCC. I am done with this now.
First, I want to make it clear to everyone that if I am commenting here about Catholic doctrine it is ONLY because you have invited me to do so.
At 10:29 you wrote: Further, it is not my understanding of Catholic doctrine that to get to Jesus, one has to go through the Pope.
The short and simple answer is that you are correct because the Catholic Church has always regarded the water baptism of non-Catholic Christians as valid.
This is because the Catholic Church has also always taught (even before the Second Vatican Council) that ANYONE with the use of reason is qualified to baptize...not just a member of the ordained priesthood/clergy.
As long as the matter of the Sacrament ( water) is present as well as the form ( the words "I baptize thee in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost" ) the baptism is regarded as valid......its validity not depending on anyone but Jesus Christ.
By Catholic definition a Sacrament is "an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace."
As St. Isidore of Seville once declared regarding the Sacrament of Baptism: "The Spirit of God administers the grace of baptism, although it be a pagan who does the baptizing." Pope Nicholas I taught the Bulgarians that baptism even by a Jew or a pagan is valid.
I am not sure what Protstants believe in general about Baptism, but according to Catholic teaching, baptism, once validly conferred, can never be repeated. This is because baptism is said to impress an ineffaceable character on the soul, which the Tridentine Fathers call a spiritual and indelible mark. Clement of Alexandria called it the "seal of the Lord." St. Augustine compared this baptismal character or mark imprinted upon the Christian soul with the character militaris impressed upon soldiers in the imperial service.
For example, if a baptized Protestant decides to become a Roman Catholic, he is not re-baptized upon entering the Catholic Church. If there is a doubt as to whether or not he has been baptized, he would be "conditionally" baptized with the words "If you are capable of being baptized, I baptize thee in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost."
Ultimately, Baptism is the door of the Church of Christ ( including ALL Christian communions ) and the entrance into a new life. We are reborn from the state of slaves of sin into the freedom of the Sons of God. Baptism incorporates us with Christ's mystical body and makes us partakers of all the privileges flowing from the redemptive act of Jesus Christ.
Baptism is mandated in the Sacred Scriptures by Christ Himself.
I hope you have found this comment helpful.
Perhaps shes working to a sunrise to sunset clock... kinda like the sabbath of old.
That dying thief did the only thing that he could do. By faith he called Jesus LORD (he said: remember me-cast himself upon the Lord's mercy) and he admitted guilt (repentance) when he told the other dying thief that Jesus was not worthy of death on the cross (because He is sinless) but he knew he was guilty and confessed that. Jesus ears heard his confession. (for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23) For whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13. No work involved except the work wrought by Christ as our atonement for sin.
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. How precious the Gospel is!
John the baptist preached repentance and directed people to behold the Lamb of God.
Simple faith, well placed in the One who alone could pay the sin debt He didn't owe because we (you and I) sinners could not pay the debt we owed (His law we have broken).
When I repented and called upon the Lord Jesus to save me (just about 40 years ago), He did. Good enough for Jesus-good enough for me.
And then.....by faith, I publically identified myself with Him through believer's baptism, which was to show my own death, burial, and resurrection with the Lord. The spiritual picture of the old me (sin nature) gone down into death and buried and raised to newness of life (eternal and new nature imparted by His now indwelling Spirit-my body became His temple).
I walk by faith trusting that the Lord keeps His word and one day I will be received into heaven--all because of Jesus.
I am a new creation wrought by the power of God.
I provided the sinner, Jesus provided the salvation.
... here - http://bit.ly/1YjoHVq
I haven't read the book - just turned up in my searches as I started to enquire about the names being discussed here.
~ K ~
Just for your additional information, the Catholic Church teaches that there are three kinds of baptism.
Baptism of water, baptism of desire and baptism of blood.
If the sacrament of baptism was not instituted until after the Resurrection, the good thief Dismas’ salvation would not be subject to its current necessity. But scholars do not agree on when the sacrament was instituted, so whether or not it was necessary at the time of the Crucifixion remains an open question, as does the question of whether or not Dismas had been baptized.
If Jesus did institute baptism before the Crucifixion, and Dismas was baptized, then there is no conflict with the doctrine of the necessity of baptism. But if Dismas wasn’t baptized with water as mandated in the Scriptures, this doesn't pose a conflict either. Because while baptism is the ordinary means of baptismal graces, the Church holds that there are other extraordinary means that suffice when certain circumstances exist. One of those is baptism of desire. The Catechism explains:
Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery. Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity (CCC 1260).
It is believed by many that Dismas received baptism of desire.
We must always remember that Jesus is not only truly man. Jesus is also truly God. And as the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments” (CCC 1257).
BAPTISM OF DESIRE
Baptism of desire (Latin: Baptismus flaminis) is a teaching of the Roman Catholic Church explaining that those who desire baptism, but are not baptized with water through the Christian ritual because of death, nevertheless receive the fruits of Baptism if their grace of conversion included an internal act of perfect love and contrition by which their soul was cleansed of all sin. Hence, the Catechism of the Catholic Church observes, "For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament" (CCC 1259)......read more...
Baptism of blood is when a person who has not yet received baptism of water suffers martyrdom for the Christian faith.
BAPTISM OF BLOOD
I also thank you for your explanation of baptism and what it means from a Catholic perspective.
I wish there were dozens of you so you could refute the FLOOD of anti Roman Catholic bashing that only seems to be increasing these days. Whatever the Pope may or may not be doing, I know that there are sincere God-loving Christians in the pews every week, everywhere.
But I'm wondering where FIRE baptism fits into the picture; as in John the Baptist's words in Matthew 3:11, which obviously took place at the Pentacost in the upper room.
_ "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that comes after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."
Above links for interview and website from a woman who was working for Rick Joyner during the time when he was Knighted into the Knights of Malta. He was proud of it, defended it, reported being in Nazi caves in Germany when the ceremony happened. (sounds familiar) He had a school she attended called "Morning Star" and she witnessed mass mind control and non Christian activities. She says for the first time publicly that Joyner was a Lucifarian and she gives some insider evidence.
Above is Joyner's organization (Gen Boykin speaks for on you tube).
I am curious if trying to get your enemy to do your dirty war work (oh like get charismatics and protestants to become professional haters) really is a sun tshu tactic preferred by of the secret societies.
This biggest take from her interview for me is the level of deception perpetrated upon the participants. This is notable considering the large majority of Jews, Muslims, Catholics and Protestants are well meaning and decent people who are happy to get along well with their neighbors. Getting along respectfully is NOT an action that lends itself well to civil wars and chaos that can be brought into order by fascist legislation.
Joyner has purchased or did purchase the mega expensive, Tammy Fay and Jim Bakker's property and he was instrumental in helping Todd Bently recover from his year of transgression some time ago and Bently remained on that property for some time.
Sorry for the old news but it's new to me. God help us and may all of our eyes be opened. She does discuss Dominionism which seems regularly tied in with anti shariah stuff.
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