Sunday, November 27, 2011

The Fifth Seal? Persecution of the Church?

Top picture is the Thomas Dahlheimer article that wants to brand Christias as "eco-Terrorists."  The bottom relates to Christian persecution in wake of Arab Spring.  There could be similar fates for others in other regions as the "Occupy Movements" gather steam and supporters among the Mayan 2012 Calendar believers in the New Age networks.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled.  (Revelation, Chapter 6, KJV)

Our (USA) efforts to guarantee "democracy" in the Middle East have led to increased perils and persecution up to and including death in that region.  I am indebted to correspondent Donald Hank for calling my attention to the latest disturbing news there.  He says that at last the New York Times is reporting what he and others were watching and reporting with concern several months ago.

There are moves among some in the Occupy Movement to harness UN and Native American support for a New Age earth worshipping religion.  One New Age / Occupy Movement activist, Thomas Dahlheimer boasts that he is meeting with UN and other leaders.  He would like to have Catholics in particular and Christians unwilling to go along with the "New World Religion" branded and treated as "eco-terrorists."  Interestingly, his Christian bashing takes place this time in a venue ( sometimes favored by Alex Jones.  I would like to hear Alex Jones' take on Dahlheimer and his unmitigated Christian bashing!

Dahlheimer's November 13th piece dealt with a proposed Wall Street GLOBAL Initiative (emphasis added).

In the late 1960s, a leader of the counter-cultural hippie revolution who was affiliated with this counter-cultural community when it originated in California, along with his wife and I, traveled to Wahkon, Minnesota from California to potentially establish a counter-cultural community there. At the time, our plans to unite humanity, establish world peace and ecological balance temporarily came to an end. However, there are some indications that we will be getting together again in Wahkon, to promote a New Age Gaian – world view around the word wahkon – counter cultural, global initiative… an Occupy Wahkon Global Initiative.
It is a global initiative to achieve world peace and ecological balance by, in part, influencing UN leaders and Occupy Wall Street to adopt the counter culture’s (or my) New Age Gaian – world view around the wordwahkon – earth saving and world unifying mission.
I am the Director and Founder of the Rum River Name Change Organization, Inc.. This organization was established to change the faulty-translation and profane English name for the “Rum River” back to its sacred Dakota Indigenous name (Wahkon). This organization’s headquarters are in Wahkon, Minnesota, located on the south end of Mille Lacs Lake. This lake is the outlet lake of the “Rum”/Wahkon River. The sacred Dakota name for this lake is Mde Wahkon (Lake Spirit). Wahkon is also the traditional name for the Dakota’s Great Spirit.
The Roman Catholic Church teaches, as proclaimed in the words of Pope Benedict XV: “A world government shall arise, all national loyalties will be vanquished, there will inevitatably follow a reign of terror.” Because of this teaching, it seem obvious to me that the Roman Catholic Church would be paranoid and opposed to any attempt to solve the world’s current crisis problems by the establishment of a one world government.

The Catholic Church’s opposition to efforts to establish a one world government: In Pope Benedict XVI’s encyclical, Caritas in Veritate, he speaks directly against a one-world government. In paragraph 41, he says “We must promote a dispersed political authority.” He explains that “The integrated economy of the present day does not make the role of States redundant, but rather it commits governments to greater collaboration with one another…” In paragraph 57 he says, “In order not to produce a dangerous universal power of a tyrannical nature, the governance of globalization must be marked by subsidiarity.” Subsidiarity is a principle of Catholic social teaching which states that matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority – as being essential. ref.

Therefore, I believe that the Roman Catholic Church, the institution that initiated, promoted and still supports the world-wide subjugation of Indigenous peoples and earth destroying international system we live under today… presents itself as a global institution opposed to any attempt, by any organization or individual, to solve the world’s current crisis problems, [if] the organization or individual is attempting to do so by establishing a one world government… and I believe that it is doing this, at this crucial time, when it is the only feasible way to solve the world’s current crisis problems that threaten the existence of all life on earth, as some world leaders also believe is the current situation.
The United Religions Initiative (URI), an international organization modeled after the UN, and affiliated with the UN, has a mission to help the UN achieve world peace by means of the effort to establish a world union of religions. In opposition to this effort, Cardinal Arinze, head of the Vatican’s Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue, said “the Roman Catholic Church is opposed to the United Religions Initiative”. And Pope Benedict XVI has stated that he is opposed to “the effort to establish a world-wide reign of peace by means of a world union of religions”.
The Roman Catholic Church is also opposed to religious syncretism that seeks to establish a one world religion. Some people who are involved with the URI believe it will soon adopt this form of religious syncretism… and do so, because they see the UN beginning to change its original mission of promoting the principle of separativeness, or national sovereignty, to – as previously stated – “a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation”.
The Roman Catholic Church believes that lasting world peace and security can only be achieved after (1.) the future “antichrist” establishes his one world government, and (2.) a “reign of terror” occurs under the “antichrist’s” administration, and (3.) “Christ returns” to put an end to the “antichrist’s” one world government and “reign of terror”, and finally (4.) Christ establishes a new one world government.
Therefore, I believe that the Roman Catholic Church is not only opposed to the effort to establish a one world government, but that it is also, and even more so, opposed to the effort to establish, both, a one world government and one world religion. And I believe it is in opposition to this means of achieving world peace and security, when, at this crucial time, it is the only means feasible to achieving peace and security, or, the only means feasible to solve a multifaceted world wide crisis – a crisis problem that, if not solved in a shore period of time, will escalate and possibly destroy all life on earth.
If this is the case what hope does the world have with the Roman Catholic Church standing in the way?
Because of this situation, could the Roman Catholic Church be justly considered an eco-terrorist institution and its members eco-terrorists?
Another "Occupy" venue for Dahlheimer's hate campaign against Christians.  Click on picture to read full page and/or click here for link.

You may read all his scary rantings by clicking here.  Now as disturbing as the above is, Dahlheimer claims he is not alone in his views and that he and this resolution have support both in the Occupy Movements and at the United Nations:
Occupy Denver recently endorsed the Colorado AIM-initiated indigenous proposal. Colorado AIM is calling on Occupy Denver to adopt, as a starting point, the following:
The first request: “To repudiate the Doctrine of Christian Discovery, to endorse the repeal of the papal bull Inter Caetera (1493) to work for the reversal of the U.S. Supreme Court case of Johnson v. McIntosh (1823), and call for a repeal of the Columbus Day holiday as a Colorado and United States holiday.”
Also, Indigenous leaders recently presented a proposal to the Occupy Wall Street General Assembly, wherein they request that Occupy Wall Street repudiate the Doctrine of Christian Discovery, endorse the repeal of the papal bull Inter Caetera, call for a repeal of the Columbus Day holiday, and work for the reversal of the Johnson v. McIntoch case.
U.S. Chief Justice John Marshall based the Johnson v. McIntosh ruling upon, in part, the papal bull Inter Caetera. In the case he said that the discovery of “heathens” by Christian people gave the Christians “ultimate dominion” over the “discovered Indian”. This decision has never been overturned and remains the legal foundation for all American government dealings with the Indian/Indigenous populations.
Indigenous leaders are saying: “Inter Caetera is the foundation of the international system we live under today and directly related to the corporate-state-military occupation and rape of Mother Earth.” Indigenous leaders are asking Occupy Wall Street to include as a demand that we consider an American-Western, and global strategy for dealing with our current path to planetary destruction.
The United Nations is currently working on a global strategy for dealing with our current path to planetary destruction. I recommend Occupy Wall Street to adopt a particular group of influential UN leaders’ already established global strategy.
Influential leaders of the United Nations are on a mission to achieve world peace and ecological balance by uniting the worlds religions into a One World Religion based on syncretism and the Gaia Hypothesis… and by also establishing a One World Government based on (1.) the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation, and (2.) the new imperatives of global security cooperation associated with preventing warfare.
Robert Muller (1923-2010) was the Assistant Secretary-General of the UN and called the “Prophet of Hope”. Muller said: “We must move as quickly as possible to a one-world government; a one-world religion; under a one-world leader.”
Alice Bailey (1880-1949) was the world-renowned, anti-Christian New Age prophetess who started World Goodwill – an official non-governmental organization within the United Nations. One of its aims is: “To cooperate in the work of preparation for the reappearance of the Christ.” This aim-statement is not referring to the traditional Christian concept of who Christ is, but rather the New Age Cosmic Christ (a person living on earth today) who New Agers believe will soon appear (reveal his messianic identity) and unite all religions and countries as well as establish lasting world peace and environmental security. In this new world order, corporate greed and other injustices would be eliminated.
Moving toward a one world government: During the opening ceremony of the UN Earth Summit, Maurice Strong, a very influential UN leader, gave a speech wherein he said: “The concept of national sovereignty has been an immutable, indeed sacred, principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation. It is simply not feasible for sovereignty to be exercised unilaterally by individual nation states, however powerful. The global community must be assured of environmental security.”

Lee Penn and I have both wondered out loud if Mr. Dahlheimer had read our respective books and took everything we warned against as something positive and wonderful for the world.  I don't know.  My materials were compiled starting in 1981 by collecting these types of statements from New Agers.  I frankly figured that if they had the nerve to say it, I had the nerve to quote it.  Their weak flank was that they figured the "fundamentalists" would "never catch on" and if and when they did, "it would be too late to stop us."

Well, they are clearly emboldened and on the march again.  The Occupy Movements are an important component of where they are going.  So is "global governance."  Perhaps the Occupy Movements will add to the dialectics that make global governance appear increasingly necessary.

At any rate as the New Agers approach their own apocalyptic deadline of December 21, 2112, I suspect that  their activity momentum may well increase just as it was doing when they were emboldened on April 25, 1982 to run their half million dollar ad campaign proclaiming their New Age "Christ" was "now here."

It may well be that whoever and whatever their candidate was then is still very much around, much longer in the tooth (as are so many of the New Age leaders such as Benjamin Creme, Barbara Marx Hubbard and David Spangler,  I rather suspect they may view our crowd as career blockers.

The Occupy Movements agendas contain items for "yoga classes" and "meditation".  I am reminded once again of Marilyn Ferguson's New Age classic, THE AQUARIAN CONSPIRACY, where she bragged of a 'leaderless movement' that was "seeking radical change and they were "made kindred by their inner discoveries."  They certainly are doing all they can to induce these "inner discoveries" (i.e. brainwashing) in the frustrated young people who think they are merely protesting the economy and their inflated tuition related indebtedness.  I pray that those young people will like many in the 1980s discern the "hidden dangers" of their newest New Age rainbows in the form of this new accelerated "Occupy the World" movement and refuse to participate in the obvious anti-Semitism and Christian bashing increasingly apparent in that "Movement."

Stay tuned!

Constance, Alex Jones has linked to your article on Newt Gingrich...

As Attorney Constance Cumbey writes, Gingrich worked feverishly with his buddy Al Gore back in the mid-90′s to help create the embryonic architecture of a global parliamentary authority.
Constance, your post on Thomas Dahlheimer hits the nail on the head. The Catholic Church and Pope Benedict XVI are not in cahoots with the anti-Christian New World Order. This doesn't mean there aren't elements in the Catholic Church who are wolves masquerading as sheep, but Pope Benedict XVI and the doctrines of the Catholic Church are opposed to the philosophy of the Novus Ordo Seclorum. Thanks for posting this.
From one of the occupy movement's direct website -- they certainly perceive themselves as "new age"

University Students should support this movement [Occupy Colleges]

by Occupy Colleges
Waves of protests spread across the globe over the last year from Egypt to Greece, demonstrating the strength of the human spirit. Refusing to be outdone, the United States began participating in this new-age movement of empowering the common man and fighting for social justice through Occupy Wall Street. Most recently, a new movement, Occupy . . .

Occupy the Vatican?
Meticulously and thoroughly laid
out for us all to see, as usual.
I know I can be a bit slow on the uptake, but please help me understand...

What about "Has Vatican called for creation of a "World Authority" on global finance? If accurate, this is OMINOUS!"

How the recent Vatican statement calling for a world authority on finance comport with Pope Benedict XVI’s encyclical, Caritas in Veritate?

I'm confused!
Anonymous, the document Caritas in Veritate was an encyclical written by Pope Benedict XVI in 2009 which does not at all support the objectives of the New World Order. A different document released in October 2011 by the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace was incorrectly understood as the Vatican/the Pope/the Catholic Church endorsing the creation of a world government and a world central bank. That document was the creation of a pontifical council in the Vatican and has absolutely no binding authority and was not endorsed by Pope Benedict XVI. In fact, if you read this document and Caritas in Veritate you will discover they are worlds apart.
Occupy Christmas Caroling - @ Pioneer Sq. from 9AM to 12PM, come sing new carols of our times, followed by a march at noon.

I came across this announcement in the website. They did this on Black Friday. I wonder what the words are in these "New Carols" and are they actually replacing all of our orignal Christmas carols that sing about the Lord Jesus Christ?
Now here's a BIG one for everybody. I guess "snakes of a 'feather' slither together." Dahlheimer LOVES SOJOURNERS and its apostate leader JIM WALLIS who loves to pose as a Matthew 25 "evangelical":

Creating a new U.S.A. culture based on tribal values
by Thomas DahlheimerSojourners founder Rev. Jim Wallis, while addressing the economic downturn in his keynote address Feb. 28, at the annual Religious Education Congress in Anaheim, California said: "Our goal cannot be to get back to business as usual. We have to say, 'No, we want a new direction. We've tried the greed culture, and it hasn't worked.' We need to create something new, a common good culture, rooted in compassion." This statement by Rev. Jim Wallis was published in a recent edition…
See More
Blog post by Thomas Ivan Dahlheimer
Mar 30, 2009

And I just found more, much more. THOMAS DAHLHEIMER is also closely affiliated with ex-communicated former Catholic theologian MATTHEW FOX and his whole apostate community. Here's another deeply Christian bashing article and it is up on the Creation Spirituality Communities website:


Now, remember that MATTHEW FOX has Lucis Trust / David Spangler links. He is an extremely dangerous character in and of himself, but it looks like he has quite a team, THOMAS DAHLHEIMER included.

Here's another one I just discovered. Evidently Dahlheimer has been monitoring us closely and as Lee Penn and I guessed, he has read our books. Here's a specific reference to one of mine in one of his articles:

This article is dated 1-25-2010 and deals with "The Latter Rain / The New Age Movement."

And Lee Penn and I were correct: Dahlheimer has inverted everything!

The revelations on Dahlheimer just keep coming. He may well be a visitor to this very blogspot. To call him "delusional" is a rather studied understatement. He has obviously been studying us, infiltrating us for years. From his January 25, 2010 article, I read the following:

From the beginning of my participation in the Latter Rain "Christian" and New Age movement I have been working to destabilize and redefine the true (though imperfect)church of Jesus Christ, the Roman Catholic Church. I believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the intermediary church, and that it has a mission to lead the way to the establishment of the (fully) true church of Jesus Christ, a future church that will be named the Wahkon Catholic Church. This church will house a new (non-Christian) Universal Religion and its leaders (who will know Jesus as their guru) will usher in the New Age. This future Universal Religion will soon be established in Wahkon, Minnesota.

To usher in this new “Universal Religion” an old out-dated foundational dogma of the Roman Catholic Church, a dogma which describes “the mission of Jesus Christ”, which has been proven to be impossible to accomplish by modern-day science, has to be renounced as a false doctrine by the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy. Then, a new church, the Wahkon Catholic Church, an expression of the youth of 1960s counter-cultural New Age syncretistic universal religion needs to be established in the place of the old out-dated Roman Catholic Church. Its land and buildings can then be used by the members of this new universal religion.

If you look at Dahlheimer's photos (viewable under Google images and on several of his articles) you will see that he looks like the "archetypal" New Ager, to put it in their Jungian phraseology.

This is almost another article in and of itself, but Matthew Fox has obviously been quite busy stirring up his disciples such as Thomas Dahlheimer. Here's from another observer on a forum that quoted Dahlheimer's 1-25-10 article:

Some of this New Age Christianity stuff can get pretty extreme.

An Episcopal priest and theologian who popularized the rave-like "Techno Cosmic Mass" and advocated goddess worship recently led a seminar on mysticism and Earth spirituality to coincide with Earth Day.

Warning that environmental degradation caused by raging against "Gaia" had to cease, the Rev. Matthew Fox made frequent references to "the Goddess" and the divine feminine during his environmentally-themed lecture and workshop, "Earth Spirituality and the Mystical Tradition." The event was held in April at the Unitarian Universalist Church in the Washington suburb of Rockville, Maryland, and sponsored by the Shalem Institute for Spiritual Formation.That worship has included the "Techno Cosmic Mass" - an event that attempts to combine the religious ritual of the Eucharist with non-Christian religious rituals and the energy of techno music and rave parties. Mixing dance, techno music, contemporary art and the western liturgical tradition, the post-modern form of worship eschews traditional images of church, along with rejecting traditional Christian teachings.Fox conducted elements of the "cosmic mass" during the seminar. Among them was a grieving ritual, which Fox equated with confession during the traditional mass. In preparation for the ritual, Fox invited participants to place their feet, knees, hands and forehead in direct contact with the floor, in order to increase connection with the earth below. Seminar participants then were instructed to release their grief into the earth in three stages: anger, sorrow, and concluding with "bottoming out".

As the "grief work" began, animal-like barking and growls punctuated guttural wails and whimpering that filled the church sanctuary, rising to a crescendo and then concluding. Fox pronounced the "grief work" as authentic, saying that which came from the gut was correctly in line with the third chakra, a point of spiritual power located along the body in yoga.

The clergyman also prescribed another practice of grieving: "Find a rock, dig a hole, ask the rock if it is willing to do this, and then you get a bandanna or some piece of cloth that means something to you, and you put your grief into that rock and wrap it, wrap the bandanna around it and bury it, and then cover it up. The Earth is so generous and large that she can absorb our grief for us.

This is from


Evidently, per his last article, Dahlheimer gave up on the Catholic Church and now wants to declare it an "eco-terrorist" organization. What a guy!
Bad, bad news out of Europe. Read link to this one from Javier Solana's twitter page:,1518,800285,00.html#ref=nlint


Suggestion is that Europe and maybe even world is on the verge of economic collapse.

More startling news from Der Spiegel (referenced on Spanish twitter of Dr. Solana):

Plans Would Divide Euro Zone
The elite bond plans are reportedly part of a German government concept for a
currency union treaty under which only a few euro-zone member states would
initially agree to stricter budget rules and stronger fiscal coordination. If realized, the
concept would enshrine widening divisions among the euro-zone nations in the debt
According to the tabloid Bild, there are German-French plans for a new euro treaty
among the strongest countries of the euro-zone which is to be implemented quickly
through bilateral agreements that would allow it to be in place by the start of 2012.
German government sources have denied reports about secret talks with France
about a new stability treaty. But it is clear that Merkel and French President Nicolas
Sarkozy plan to submit common proposals for limited treaty changes ahead of the
next EU summit on December 8 and 9.

Lee Penn will be on air with me tomorrow night. His book is now available on Kindle (as I am thinking of doing with mine. We're going to be discussing Middle East and updating news on the Vatican renunciation of the Pontifical Commission for Peace and Justice. We will also be talking about Thomas Dahlheimer. We'll have open lines so please call in to 1-888-747-1968 between 4 and 5 pm Pacific time, 7 to 8 p.m. Eastern time.

Constance, here's the latest update on the Vatican reaction to the recent controversial document from the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace. the summit held at the secretariat of state on November 4,...there was also talk of the document on the international financial system issued autonomously by the pontifical council for justice and peace, the object of strong criticism after its publication, inside and outside of the Vatican.
The controversial document from the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace WAS NOT SIGNED BY BENEDICT XVI...

Certainly at the press conference to launch the document the Vatican spokesman, Fr. Federico Lombardi, S.J., stressed that the publication was “not an expression of papal magisterium,” and that it would be wrong to attach the words “Pope Benedict says,” to any subsequent reporting of it...
Another factor, he said, to take into consideration when assessing the significance of a “Vatican document” is whether it has been “reviewed by the Holy Father himself,” and also the number of Vatican departments involved in its creation.
Constance, Doesn't the world look like it was reset back to the 1960's? The difference being is there seems to be more work at the dumbing down of man through food, water, and pharmauceuticals. At some point technology will take over where people would look to G-d.
Have you seen the trailer for the Thrive movie yet? It is the newagest New Age movie I've heard of yet- It is hosted by Foster Gamble and features BM Hubbard, Deepak Chopra, assorted disclosurists, Teslaites and many others.

Think they've got some real surprises laid on for us in 2012.
I got an email from one of the things I subscribe to I think, recommending it and giving a link. given the url for it I was dubious and seeing who was on it, maybe started the first few seconds, I forget, I decided not to watch it. No need to poison my mind.
Dear Constance, please see these two videos.

Kabbalah Secrets Revealed! An Expose 1/2

Kabbalah Secrets Revealed! An Expose 2/2
Please protest and write to your senator to change this disgraceful
scandal blighting the USA.

"The US and Somalia are the only two countries not to have ratified a UN convention that bans life in jail without parole for under-18 year olds."

'Potential for rehabilitation'

"Amnesty says offenders as young as 11 have faced such sentences in the US."

"In the USA, people under 18 years old cannot vote, buy alcohol, lottery tickets or consent to most forms of medical treatment," said Natacha Mension, of the human rights group."

"But they can be sentenced to die in prison for their actions. This needs to change."

"More than half of US states have approved the use of mandatory life sentences without parole for some serious crimes, such as murder."

"The US Supreme Court has already acted on some aspects of youth sentencing - and a review is underway."

"In May last year it banned sentences of life without parole for minors in non-murder cases."

"Earlier this month, it agreed to consider the issue in relation to homicide cases, too; a decision is not expected until next year."

"Amnesty's report, This is where I'm going to be when I die, says such sentences are handed down without considering factors such as history of abuse or mental health."
Wow! Everything is really happening! Thank you, Constance, for keeping us alert.

I've heard a priest say how Pope Benedict XVI has called 2012, " The year of Faith." This makes sense now given the bigger picture.

I was told by someone in the know a few years ago, that the Catholic Church of the future would be much smaller, but much more faithful. Given the talk about a ridiculous Wakkon catholic church, I'll pass. If they want my head, so be it, I'll never partake of that lunacy.

Just as the Church started, small and underground, looks like she may return. However, these fools looking to wipe us out must realize, the greater the persecution, the greater the number of people come to, and will come to the Faith. Afterall, no one in their right mind is willing to die for a lie.



P.S. I guess the "fox" part of Matthew suits him well.
Anon. 12:23
I've seen this woman before, talking
about mysteries and hidden secret
magic things. I had to shake my
head at her conceit then and this
is just more of the same in her
latest package.
She is her own worst enemy; having
itching ears and a heart for Babylon
and Egypt. Her god is her stomach
and the things which should be for
her betterment; her food, are instead
for her destruction; ever learning
but never coming to a knowledge
of The Truth, which is Jesus the
She has eyes to see, but she
perceives not. She has ears to hear,
but she doesn't understand.
I just looked in on the comments section and checked the "spam" filter. There were 12 messages in the spam section, evidently posted to the last article before this. Two were clearly "spam," being not so cleverly disguised advertisements for NIKE, gold, etc. TEN were clearly NOT SPAM. They are now published on the last article and should be available for review. Even one of our beloved Susanna's messages was so marked. I think the confusion may have come from some clever SPAMMERS who started mixing apparent words from the topic or previous comments along with their links to advertisements. I deleted those and think that may have confused Google's spam checking algorithms -- at least that's my present theory.

LEE PENN'S book FALSE DAWN is now available in a KINDLE edition. It's beautiful, particularly on Kindle Fire. If you don't have a Kindle, you can still use it on your computer using the free Kindle software or Kindle Cloud Reader available from

Radar up:

On Tuesday, TMZ reported that Osteen, the pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston Texas, will be teaming up with “Survivor” producer Mark Burnett for a prime-time network television show in 2o12. According to the Houston Chronicle, a spokesperson for the church has confirmed that a program is currently in development.
To those discussing the Thrive film, at just under 2 1/2 hours it is worth sitting through to see what some have in the works. It spends a large part of the film tearing down the current order, and trying to make people believe there is a difference between the New Age and the current New World Order that is emerging.

Of course anyone who truly understands the Hegelian Dialectic, should be able to see how not only are they one and the same, but that we are clearly in the "Reaction" period of the emerging order.

The sections that include the high level New Agers like Chopra, Hubbard, et al, seem to focus intently on the current plight of humanity. This film is far more dangerous than previous ones of a similar bend like Zeitgeist, because it focuses far more on a view of humanities problems that are easier to absorb than the extremities expressed in previous titles.

This is also FAR more than just a film, as it has been used in conjunction with a social media blitz, and coordinated very carefully so as to appear to simply be the workings of a wealthy man with a conscience. This obviously is the furthest from the truth one could possibly be.
From CNN (12/01/11)...

Exclusive: Inside the offices of Occupy Wall Street
I am in Fort Wayne, Indiana for my cousin Rodney L. Butler's funeral. He died unexpectedly after a 2 year illness last Sunday morning.


I am very sorry to hear about the passing of your cousin. May he rest in peace.
Naomi Wolf on how the police violence against Occupy in the USA has an obvious source in financial corruption:

Where I am (UK), the London version of Occupy contained a few old Left materialists, a few New Agers but mainly comprised young folk angry that bankers had caused misery for millions via a recession yet were continuing to party by award themselves vast salaries.

Sometimes the truth is simple. Conspiracies do happen but each situation leading to such a claim claim needs to be evaluated separately.
There has certainly been unwarranted police brutality against many of the OWS and occupy everywhere else USA demonstrators. Clearly, there is National League of Cities / US Conference of Mayors / Homeland Security collaboration on same. Again, remember the DIALECTICS. I believe the real end game is GLOBAL GOVERNANCE and much of this is supplying the rationale for same.

Also, the New Agers are working both ends against the middle on this. Because of the vast "Christian" disinformation campaign on this over the years by people such as Doug Coe, Walter Martin, Gordon Lewis, James W. Sire, Sr., Tal Brooke, most people do not accurately understand the dynamics of the New Age Movement, its size and scope.

To Anonymous @ 8:11 AM:

Yes....and these 'young folk angry that bankers had caused misery for millions via a recession' is just one more example of a group of good, sincere people being USED - and taken advantage of - by another more powerful group for their OWN evil agenda (which has absolutely nothing to do with bettering the lives of these good, sincere young people).

And the circle continues....
Paul at 8:38 AM

Yep, Doreen 'indigo-red-silver' sure is one puffed up deluded character. It's important to remember though that many jews do not sanction that book of the devil, Kabbalah. So we cannot blame all jews for the evil beliefs of some. Just as we cannot blame all white men just because some evil ones sanction the actions of the kkk etc.

I personally can't wait to see the day when Doreen the Moreen has to bow before Jesus Christ and declare Him as Messiah, God the Son, and Lord with all Authority in Heaven and on Earth!

God bless,

I am sorry to hear about the passing of your cousin. My prayers are for you and the whole family during this time.
Also I wanted to thank you for all this recent info on Thomas Dahlheimer and this proposal he has made. It really shows how vastly the anti-Christian sentiment is growing in this entire world. That is so amazing that these world leaders will when they can label us Christians as eco-terrorists. I have come to understand this New Age Movement so much in studying all your research over the past 30 years and your info is priceless. It has helped me see and understand the direction this entire world is headed. It has helped me be on guard especially to those who try to flatter us Christians and their deceit to take us down. Thank you.
Dear Constance,

Please accept my sincere condolences over the passing of your cousin Rodney.
Amen Francis,
I do recongnize the difference between
Doreen if that's her name and another
human being who may be of Jewish
What bothers me is how some Jewish
people claim to speak for all Jewish
people. They say things like " (We)
Jews don't believe in Jesus" or " Jews
don't believe in the New Testament",
when if fact a large number of Jews
indeed do believe in the New
Testament and everything in it.

It was people just like that who
Jesus was referring to when he spoke
about the "scribes, The Pharasees, and
the leaders of the Temple."
They all were very much into the
Kabala and the very questionable
parts of the Talmud, which wasn't
in written form yet in Jesus' time
but which was in a strong oral
tradition, and which, was exactly
what Jesus referred top as the
"traditions of men, and not the
commandments of God", as in;
"Why do you follow the traditions
of men and not the commandments
of God ?"
It's unfortunate that many many
people do not understand that the term
"The Jews" in the New Testament refers
to those corrupt few in and around
the temple who indeed did see to it
that Jesus was crucified.

I live in the SF Bay Area and have been following the OWS situation in SF and Oakland.

I think it is pathetic that these cities can't control this destruction of public parks and private local businesses by groups of radical socialists, new agers, etc. Yes, I agree this is intentional, plannend, and will be used to achieve specific agendas. But the way to address this isn't to accept and be willing to live with the anarchy.

I do NOT have sympathy for these groups and believe they have been catered to by city officials when these camps should be closed down. On the whole, I do not believe they have been significantly mistreated considering how they have treated police, destroyed public property, and destroyed the livelyhoods of those that work near thier camps - remember, police have been severely harmed in these demonstrations, at least here in the Bay Area.

The way these 'demonstrations' have been handled will only encourage more of this to happen. BTW, I am not a friend of the elitist bankers, corrupt government officials, globalists, or new agers who are behind this.

Dave in CA
my condolences
I plead for clarification.

I find that Naomi Wolf's secular explanation (see link above) for the police violence against OWS, as ordained by the politico-financial establishment, is entirely convincing. Like any gangster, these people are simply protecting their investment in corruption in the most effective way.

I repeatedly read on this thread statements like "remember the use of dialectics", "the demonstrators are being used", "the two ends are being played against the middle". My question is: used or played BY WHOM? If the folks here making these statements are saying that Satan and his spiritual legions are using people and playing the ends against the middle then I totally agree. Evil always seeks to profit from any mess. But if you are saying that a specific set of shadowy powerbrokers are playing both ends off against the middle, I would ask you to name them and to provide direct evidence that they are immediately influencing both the demonstrators and the cops.

Those with a worldview that would see an earthly conspiracy even where there isn't one (yet!) will never be able to decide accurately if there really is one.

I am not in denial. I am merely a little tired of the use of the passive in statements like those I have quoted, and am seeking evidence-based clarification.
Anon 11:48,

Most of the folks involved in these protests are well meaning folks. They are certainly a representation of the disenfranchised public. However over numerous threads, it has been well documented how at the organizational level (I assume you understand that these protests haven't just appeared out of vapor) that these groups are being influenced and even funded by very affluent power brokers, typically of the New Age bend.

I have personally seen numerous accounts showing funds coming directly from Soros and Tides Foundation, as well as The Rockefeller Foundation, Ford Foundation, etc. If this cannot be considered playing both ends toward the middle, I am not sure the statement could EVER be more accurately made.

Constance alone in her posts has showed how top level New Agers have been and are involved at the ORGANIZATIONAL level. That is not to say that every protester is influenced by these folks belief structure, but just by participating in a protest that has been helped along by folks from the Club of Budapest shows that in some fashion they have been influenced by something they are doing.

When Dialectics are referred to, I assume the most common would be the Hegelian. Or as many know it, problem, reaction, solution. This also is referred to as thesis + anti-thesis= synthesis. You see, the protesters issue is with corporate greed and all of the trappings of what is perceived as globalization. However, the modern sense of globalization does not even remotely mirror the ideal of a New World Order that the New Agers have been orchestrating for the better part of a century.


So you create a populace reaction to the perceived issue. The Occupy groups are far from being the only reaction to the issue, however all at the base beginnings share common directors. After all the protesters aren't really going to stop globalization, or the new order, from emerging. But if you can make the populace believe they have won a battle by making the order into something more appealing to them, then the order still wins while keeping the masses apathetic to it's true goal.

The banks and Wall Street, at the highest level, could care less if the current order burns to the ground. They have already accumulated ALL of the worlds genuine wealth (property, raw materials, food, etc). Of course I am not talking about the CEOs or COOs, I truly mean the owners and handlers. Now we are at the point of true power consolidation, but you need the populace as a willing participant.

So you create unrest, civil uprising, and dissent. You then offer the solution that was waiting to be implemented as you were creating the problem in the first place. In this case said "solution" appears radically different from what most would consider the emerging global order to look like. I would wager that those protesting (possibly yourself included) had never contemplated that fixing the issues that you/they are protesting will require a GLOBAL overhaul of the financial and social order.

So if that is the case, and it is because the perceived problem is global. What would rise up in it's place? The synthesis between what the protesters want, and what is perceived as modern globalization, can ONLY be described as the TRUE New World Order described by Bailey, Hubbard, etc.

The real question is, how long and how vicious will the clash between thesis and anti-thesis be. I suspect it will get a LOT worse, it almost needs to in order to sell it to those on the fence.

I know there were plenty of distractions, with all of the infighting going on around here, but every piece of evidence you have asked for is contained in previous threads, most of which are on the very subject itself.

Here's a few pieces to follow, but I certainly would suggest reviewing previous threads.

I think we disagree mainly on the extent to which the undoubted conspiracy in the fallen spiritual realms, ie among Satan and his legions, corresponds as yet to a conspiracy among shadowy men of power on earth. Someday there will be a world government led by a dictator who is Satan's proxy; I know and understand that the Bible foretells that. Moreover it is obvious from the fact of economic globalisation and the New Age push for spiritual globalisation that we are a lot closer to that scenario than before the industrial revolution. However I do not believe that there is today a united cabal of men who are already smoothly running the world behind the scenes and setting up artificial crises that they then heroically resolve. If they already had that much power then they would simply seize total control openly. Read Daniel Estulin's remarkable inside accounts of some recent Bilderberg meetings to see that those guys, while they certainly have their own agenda, are as taken aback and O-shoot-what-do-we-do-now as anybody else at the way the world often pans out.

I gladly acknowledge you as my brother in Christ and I'm grateful for your detailed reply, but as a response to the specific questions and concerns I put at 11:48 AM, I have to say that it doesn't wholly satisfy...
To JD:

Thank you for a beautifully written and brilliant analysis (re: your comments at 4:48 PM & 4:57 PM).

I don't think that any of us could have said it better.
From National Geographic:

Japan earthquake lifted seabed 16 stories -- largest recorded!!!
Anon 6:29,

Wait a second, you stated "I repeatedly read on this thread statements like "remember the use of dialectics", "the demonstrators are being used", "the two ends are being played against the middle". My question is: used or played BY WHOM?"

Now I demonstrated that not only are demonstrators being used, but that they are being used by the very people they are protesting against. As well as the very people that have themselves personally claimed to be parts a "secret cabal" responsible for eroding national sovereignty and trying to establish a global government.

Yet your response to me is along the lines of nothing left to see here? Really? I don't mean to be insulting, but you further hold up Estulin as a example, claiming his "inside" knowledge states the disorganization on one group? Let me start by saying, I don't trust Estulin. He claims to have new "insider info" every time Bilderberg holds a meeting, yet the meeting is never in the same place, and has to be subject of massive background checks. Add to that his association with the Infowars network, which even I can prove with a limited amount of effort shouldn't be trusted.

So you want to take that over the money, influence, and power of those actually on the inside. Fine by me. But you can't claim that the Occupy groups were not started with a global agenda in mind. You can't claim that the protesters haven't been used, and now you can't claim ignorance.
Anon 6:43,

No, thank you! It keeps me motivated that someone understood what i was trying to get across.
I am extremely disturbed at Newt Gingrich's surge. This old video by John McManus is still true and relevant, EXCEPT that Newt's wives have changed -- Marianne has been traded in for Colista.

Old, but still relevant video about Newt Gingrich. I'm not a Bircher, but this information is very pertinent.


Your work is BRILLIANT and INSPIRED.


Link is article tweeted by Javier Solana vis a vis USA: "Israel needs to end Isolation . . ."

There is some risk that we are talking past each other. My main conern is to nail loose verbiage and maintain accuracy. As I said, we agree that there is conspiracy among Satan and his legions, and that someday - not too far off, in view of globalisation - there will be a world government led by a dictator who is Satan's proxy. My scepticism is over whether there is (yet) a corresponding conspiracy among shadowy men of power on earth. My scepticism is for this reason: If there exists today a united cabal of men who are already smoothly running the world behind the scenes and setting up artificial crises that they then heroically resolve, then they already have enough power to seize total control openly. And since that is what they want, why haven't they done it? Also, who are they - names please? Telling me who they are not is inadequate ("Of course I am not talking about the CEOs or COOs, I truly mean the owners and handlers"). If you reply, please include an answer to those specific questions.

I am reminded of Joe McCarthy when he stated that there were communists at the Journal (a particular newspaper), but when challenged at a press conference to name one by Miles McMillin, who worked for the Journal, he couldn't. McCarthy meant, of course, that there was communist *influence* at the Journal, ie that some people there expressed some views in common with communism - but he went too far, made incorrect allegations, and couldn't back them up. We all know that Satan has his useful idiots on earth, but be they ever so high, that is all they are.
"Now The Govt Can Legally Kill Christians".

Look up Sen. Bill Dannemeyer who wrote this & find more online

w w w.takebackourrights. org/docs/Christians-full%20pag­­e. html
To Anonynous 3:48

Try George Soros for one of others. He admits to a "messianic complex" and has boasted of engineering upsets of non-compliant governments.

It is happening and yes on a human scale and has been for some time.

Frankly most people are wannabee world dictators and Soros is rather nearer to it than the guy on the subway, but he's still a very long way off indeed. There is no man today, nor set of men, who can say "Next year I shall cause country X to invade country Y" regardless of choice of X and Y. Yes, shadowy men of power are doing things to try to extend their power, but they only do those things that they can - they can't do anything they want. So to call them secret rulers of the world would be gross exaggeration. There IS a secret ruler of this world until Christ gets back, and the Bible tells us his name: the Lord of this world is Satan. But we are not at the point yet where one man, or even a committee, rules the world as his proxy. It is, unhappily, coming, but we are not there yet.
To Anonymous @ 3:48 AM

Constance Cumbey's 30 years of highly respected research will help you connect the dots --although it may take you awhile to catch up with the regulars who have been posting here for several years.

Providing you all of the evidence to satisfy you (that this complex movement truly exists) is not something that can be absorbed in one or two comments on a single thread.

You have a lot of research work ahead of you. You might want to start by leaving your ego (and arrogance) at the door.
There is no justification, legally or morally, for the police brutality against the Wall Street Occupation Movement. I am somewhat suspecting that what is happening is THE ARMAGEDDON SCRIPT (LeMesurier) in play and the pawns are the naive demonstrators.

You remind me of the people I encountered in the 1980s spreading disinformation about the New Age Movement and its rather obvious dangers as stated so boldly in their literature (Blavatsky, Spangler, Hubbard, Barbara Marx Hubbard, Peter Russell) etc., ad nauseum. They were obviously NETWORKED, politically and otherwise to bring in their admittedly "Radical" (Ferguson) political change, "breaking continuity" with history. They were slowed down and for a time marginalized no thanks to the crowd with your rhetoric of "no human members". Then it turned out that there was direct interaction and collaboration between the two crowds (CRI, SCP, EMNR and IONS (Institute of Noetic Sciences." Of course the "Evangelicals" called it "evangelizing" and the "New Agers" called it DIALOGUE.

Now that they are back on the march so militantly again, looks like they have you and your kind out helping them again.

Go back to sleep folks. Nothing's happeng!! - OR IS IT???!!!!

Yes something's happening, especially as the New Age and the Christian collaboration / Disinformation crowd work so feverishly for the first bunch to achieve the 2012 aims and the second crowd to make sure you are neutralized so you don't spoil same.

Well, 1982 got 'spoiled' because folks woke up. Let's see if we can't help them along equally well for 2012.


"My kind?" Committed evangelical spirit-filled Christian who believes that the Book of Revelation prophesies a 1-world government under a dictator but differs from you a little about how close we are to that. Please resist the itch to pull that rhetorical revolver on your brother by questioning my motives, just because I ask uncomfortable questions.

Anon@1:30PM, I AM one of the regulars who has been posting here for several years. Please take your own advice.
Benny Creme and his gang would argue that OWS is just part of the Sword of Cleavage beginning to play out. George Soros...George Soros? Some people have been listening to Glenn Beck way too much. He is no more or less influential than the Koch brothers. They've got some pretty long strings, too. Is this Soros vs. Koch? Gingrich vs. Obama? Oh, the choices we have.

As a side note, isn't interesting how Herman Cain's "troubles" were played on the media nearly back to back with the Jerry Sandusky scandal. It almost gave the illusion the two were connected in some way, although they're not.
If Cain had been having a protracted extramarital affair then he must have been crazy to run for Prez. And if he was not, why did he withdraw? All very strange...

We might be talking past each other, but I doubt it. My point was not to say there was a group with iron fist control over every movement of every person, state, or nation. However to claim that there is not a inner group working, and shifting nations and policies is daft at best.

That does not change the point, or the original point of contention that started our conversation. You openly stated that you saw no evidence that the Occupy groups were being used, or that they could be being played against the middle. Nor have you answered any of my follow up questions.

If there is no ulterior motive behind rallying a group to protest the current economic system, why would Soros, Rockefeller, etc directly fund such a group that would be in direct conflict with their personal business? Other than open revolution, or a complete global overhaul, what other possible end result could come from these protests, if said protesters are successful?

Don't confuse this with a endorsement of how some of the police have acted toward the protesters, because that is a wholly separate issue. One I find deplorable at that. This however, is reactionary process of civil uprising and is more symptomatic of the fact that what we are seeing is a form of revolution. One that grows by leaps and bounds with every over zealous LEO with a can of pepper spray.

Other posters are correct in saying that revealing a "secret cabal" would take far more than a couple posts. So lets take this case by case and dissect things properly. The initial point of contention are these protests, which you have yet to answer my questions about, or have yet to respond to info presented that clearly shows at it's base this has little to do with a discontent population.
Constance, JD,

Where did I ever say "no human members"? What I am saying is that no human or set of humans is currently running the world omnipotently behind the scenes and smoothly orchestrating crises. Your logic seems to me to be somewhat inconsistent because on the one hand you imply that there is such a group (and you certainly have not denied it when I have used that phrase several times above); yet on the other hand you say that they are orchestrating crises in order to increase their power. If they already have that much power then they don't need to increase it, do they? And why haven't they openly declared themselves as rulers in that case?

Some evidence for the Estulin line that even Bilderbergers are often in reactive 'O-sh*t' mode to world events: If the financial crisis explodes into a cataclysm in which there is no exchange medium, then the riches of Soros and Rockefeller, etc become worthless too. (Also, there is little they can do about people whose strongest motivation is the will of Allah.)

All you say is coming, but it's not here yet.

"I have personally seen numerous accounts showing funds coming directly from Soros and Tides Foundation, as well as The Rockefeller Foundation, Ford Foundation, etc" And going to feed, or pay for tents, clothing etc for, the people *actually doing* Occupy?

Playing both ends against the middle is not so much different from corporations trying to buy both Republican and Democrat candidates, in order to cover their bets no matter who wins an election.
Everyone needs to go read Nyquist's "Not All Conspiracy Theories Are Created Equal". Two or three times at least.

The Anon poster who is asking 'skeptical" questions has asked some very good ones. For example:

If there exists today a united cabal of men who are already smoothly running the world behind the scenes and setting up artificial crises that they then heroically resolve, then they already have enough power to seize total control openly. And since that is what they want, why haven't they done it?"

And as Nyquist observes, to say that there are super-rich and powerful people behind the scenes who want to tear down the very world that gave them that power and wealth is to propose a contradiction.

I also have trouble believing that there is a handful of people who are essentially orchestrating the history of world. With much respect JD, to believe this is more "daft" than claiming otherwise in my opinion. This doesn't negate any of the research you and others have done, but it questions that all the networks are run from a human central control room. Satan is the only one orchestrating things at that level. And of course, the one who controls all, God. (Thankfully!)

Having said all that, I believe that the evil men who plan things in the dark rooms of the world are always looking for opportunities to further their goals.

Sometimes they have the power to just carry them out. (Wars are usually the result.) Sometimes they do not, so they put into place long-range goals. That may include dialectics, but the tendency both here and at all clusters of "watchful men" both online and elsewhere is to simplify into terms we understand the complex world in which we live. Hence, quite often we end up erroneously assigning blame for events to one thing, when in fact it may be something else.

Constance, JD, etc, are correct, but so is the anonymous poster who seems to be "against" them. We are all on the same team, but not everyone on the same team agrees on how the game is being played and what strategies are being used by the opposing team. Above all, let us not let personal pride get in the way of watching and warning and praying that the enemy's plans are thwarted.

Most everyone (including me) who followed Constance's research in the early - mid 80's thought that the time was upon us that the Antichrist was about to be revealed. Well, it wasn't. Maybe Constance's research was the primary force in arresting those plans, and maybe it wasn't. Maybe it had nothing to do with it. But it did shine the light into a nest of nasties, and helped many to see something they otherwise wouldn't have seen.

Here's the link to Nyquist's article. It is insufficient in a few areas, but it raises some good questions, especially for those who think there's a small cabal running the world:
That Soros, et al, have contributed to these "spontaneous" movements that have arisen might be the hand of the New Agers moving forward. But just as well, it may be our old enemy Communism who also has long-range plans to destroy the Christian West. Or, it may be something else entirely. We all are just trying to connect the dots. And you know how that goes.... as you draw the connections, sometimes the picture looks like one thing when in fact it is something else. And I don't think we'll ever completely connect all the dots. Hence, we'll never have the complete picture of what's really happening.

Therefore, it is *extremely important* to get close to God and to learn to hear His voice. If you've put all your eggs into one basket of "how to interpret world events", and you let pride be your guide instead of God, well, that is dangerous ground to be on, yes?
I've been trying to update the picture but the google interface won't let me. Any suggestions?
Thomas Dahlheimer himself has probably been looking in here for years, so "regular" doesn't mean all that much. Spies and moles can be "regulars" too.
To Marko:

For me Scripture trumps all. The Scripture never said they would be atheists at the end of time. Instead it read in Revelation

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Lucifer's goal was to be worshipped as God. Communism may get him part of the way there, but he needs "spirituality" of a sort to get him there to the rest of his goal.

At least, that's how I see it.


I am the Anon who has been trying to get Constance, JD etc to raise their game by asking some difficult questions. And that IS what I am doing. I have stressed that my difference from them is not theological, for I share their faith in the God of the Bible and their interpretation of the Book of Revelation. I differ perhaps only on the timing. I suspect I have come as a bit of a shock to those who use the closed logic that Nyquist rightly complains of. I have been insulted mildly on this thread, but I believe that that only shows how badly a little reflection is needed. I am glad of Constance's earlier work and I continue to regard all who have faith in Christ as my brethren, regardless of race, denomination or insult. Someday we shall all meet in heaven at the feet of Lord Jesus. Thank you for your comments.
did Constance ever publish/post the rest of the story? There was a series of articles at News With Views about the bunch in D.C. and then things stopped abruptly. I never read the end of the story. Why did it stop?
Two theories of history that are often bandied about are called (at least here in UK) the conspiracy theory of history and the cock-up theory of history. (A cock-up is a British colloquialism for a mistake; it is not a sexual reference in this context.) These two theories are often taken to be mutually exclusive, but Christians should see them as complementary - what is conspiracy among Satan and his legions in heaven (no, he's not in hell yet) works out as cock-up and chaos on earth. That is exactly what happens in Job 1&2, and also in the Book of Revelation where the opening of seals, blowing of trumpets, pouring of bowls of wrath, in the spiritual realms, have cataclysmic outworkings on earth. The Book of Revelation is theocentric and refers to what God is doing in heaven, but make no mistake Satan is his tool of punishment for endtime sin and idolatry.

Incidentally, the alternation between heaven and earth in the opening of seals, blowing of trumpets and pouring of bowls is a good knockdown argument against those mainstream denominations who misunderstand the Book of Revelation as spiritual allegory.
Marko: If you think communism has long-range plans to destroy the West, it has been around for 150 years. Islam has been trying to destroy the West for 1500 years. On every occasion when it has had the military strength it has used it to that end. And Allah is not Jehovah, for the word of Allah in the koran explicitly denies the divinity of Jesus Christ. Would Jehovah deny his own beloved Son?
The best way to destroy the West, as with any civilisation, is to destroy its family stability. In a secular study (Sex and Culture, 1934), J.D. Unwin looked at more than 80 cultures. He found that a people rose when they practised abstinence before marriage and lasting fidelity within it (i.e., biblical sexual morality), and fell within two or three generations of becoming promiscuous and liberalising divorce. Marriage is basic to humanity (Genesis 2:24); wherever the family has broken down, the way of life has followed. That is because the principles of personal commitment and how to get on with people, which are necessary for society to function, are learned mainly within the family, by example. In his multi-volume study, Will Durant stated that a great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within. Societies that trample God’s moral laws collapse under the weight of their sins and face rape by their enemies as divine judgement. (Proverbs 14:34 states that righteousness raises up a nation and implies the converse.)

Since the social and sexual revolution of the 1960s, family breakdown has become widespread. At the individual level it has been fuelled by sexual hedonism and promiscuity, and hard-heartedness. Statistics for unmarried cohabitation, divorce and children living with one parent all show a ‘hockey-stick’ trend from 2-5% over several centuries to 20-50% since the 1960s. This revolution has taken place behind closed doors, but its magnitude is unprecedented.

What can Christians do? Obviously, set a personal example, and preach to secular people. But they have to have freedom to refuse Christ. Within our democratic framework, we can also lobby and take political action. In recent decades the tax-and-welfare and education systems have been subverted; they increasingly penalise marriage financially, and promote and subsidise sexual immorality and its effects. In Britain, at least, young children face explicit sexualising ‘educational’ videos that would count as pornography or grooming outside the classroom. Teenage girls have an incentive to get pregnant, to be given a flat and living expenses by the State. (Alternatively, the State provides an abortion service.) Traditionally provision was the male role, but that has been undermined by the Welfare State, and the father figure has markedly low status in modern TV soaps and adverts. Almost the only women having many children today are secular singles living off the State (to one father after another). The USA will not be too far behind.

Unless these trends are reversed then the West is doomed. Who will feast on the carcass is less clear - Islam, communism or China - but that is no consolation to the deceased.

It is not hard to identify those who furthered political policies that had the effect of promoting family breakdown. But knowing whether they did so specifically to bring the West down, or whether they were simply Satan's useful idiots, is next to impossible.
That is a very good point, Constance, and one that suggests that no matter what the current threat is from Russia and other Communist nations and groups, it will be, in the end, a false religion that attempts to sweep away the old and replace it with the new.

I think you mentioned that point before, but sometimes it takes a few times for something to stick in my mind... ;^)

My current idea for how things unravel is that first we see wars of East vs. West, and out of the chaos of that comes the new religion based on New Age teachings. The people of the world (who have not accepted Christ and the message of the Gospel) will by then have been prepped for the largest planetary "possession" by evil spirits that has ever occurred. The full hatred of Satan will then be felt by the true Church who lives at that time.

I think the time is short... an increasing number of Christians and Christian families are reporting being under attack from the evil one, even through other Christians.

We need to pray for each other!

[Mon, Dec. 5]
Marko, Anon,

Let's be clear, I have never said that a secret cabal was running the world. I have never said that the cabals influence operates smoothly. In fact if my posts had been thoroughly read, I said exactly the opposite.

I have claimed that there are many working behind the scenes to influence and shift power in specific directions, which can easily be proven. However, this WAS NOT what the original post by anonymous brought as the main bone of contention, and it is not what I set to deal with in my original post.

However this has been repeatedly ignored, as the facts seem impossible to be dealt with. The fact is Occupy Wall Street was organized, funded, and pushed in a particular direction by globalists. It is still being funded by such, and even the donations supporting the people in the streets are being funneled through such groups.

My questions about such have been repeatedly ignored, and several attempts have been made to divert the conversation from this original topic. I have no issue with having a conversation, or being called on the carpet about how I see world events. Anyone who has had a serious disagreement with me, will most likely tell you I can admit when I am wrong.

However, this conversation has been one sided, and facts have been ignored in a attempt to further one's case. If one wishes to continue this conversation, start by dealing with the information that has actually been provided.

FACT: The Occupy groups were started, funded, and directed by people who wish to see the current order fall. They still are being steered in that direction by the same.

FACT: The same can be said for the Arab Spring and it's ongoing uprisings.

When taken in conjunction, the evidence shows that men working in secret have stirred a global revolution by manipulating the populace.

I agree with your scenario. In fact, given that prophecies often have what is called a 'minor' and then a 'major' fulfilment, I would like to suggest that 1914-45 was the minor pattern. What those years contained were a war so borrific as to be described as the 'war to end wars' (although the heart of man was not reformed as it would need to be); then out of the post-war chaos in his land the rise of a charismatic bullying dictator who brought order, demanded worship, and persecuted the Jews, finally to a mortal extent for 3.5 years while bringing the world down around his ears.

The parallel between prophecy and that era is remarkable. Tremble at the magnitude of coming events for which World Wars 1&2 were merely rehearsals!

As the Anon in question, I certainly sought to widen the discussion but I did not neglect the Occupy issue. Indeed I posted as follows, to which you failed to respond in your next post:

"I [JD] have personally seen numerous accounts showing funds coming directly from Soros and Tides Foundation, as well as The Rockefeller Foundation, Ford Foundation, etc" And going to feed, or pay for tents, clothing etc for, the people *actually doing* Occupy?

Any New Age Leftie with sponsorship can showboat a speech or two and then leave the campsite, but can you demonstrate that the majority of campers were, albeit unknowingly, directly in receipt of Soros or Rockefeller sponsorship and would not have turned out otherwise?

As for the Arab Spring, the main beneficiary is very clearly fundamentalist Islam (which does not worship Jehovah, as the koran denies his Son's divinity). That's Islam, not New Age. Islam hates paganism - the koran is tougher on paganism than on Christianity, even though it doesn't always work out like that on the ground.

In principle, the Arab Spring might have begun as a New Age movement but got hijacked by Islamists. Is that what happened? No - it went like this. in Egypt Obama foolishly withdrew his tacit support from Mubarak and the people, tired of a corrupt dictatorship, rose against a weakened dictator without thought for the consequences. In a power vacuum the most powerful people get the power and it is turning out, predictably, to be Islamists. I would like to direct the attention of Constance's readers to a remarkable online booklet by a man called Gene Sharp, called "From dictatorship to democracy". It shows how a populace can *always* bring down a dictator if they have sufficient courage - for there will be martyrs. Sharp distilled his principles from a study of many nonviolent resistance movements that met with success. His work is better known in the 3rd world, and most of the leaders of the Arab Spring uprisings carried copies of Sharp in Arabic.

Unfortunately for the Spring's leaders, you can't maintain a democracy in a land where there is insufficient consensus for all parties to agree in advance to abide peaceably by the results of an election. That's not rocket science (although it is beyond the State Department, based on the Iraq debacle), and in particualr if you have a powerful Islamist party then you can forget about democracy because the koran commands takeover by force.

So I don't believe that the Arab Spring was a New Age conspiracy either.

What part of, they organized and orchestrated the original event (without which no one would be there)seems to be slipping past you? What part of the donations and organization that is still currently going on is being funneled through their channels, is still managing to go over your head?

It is about organizing, inciting, and then turning the mob loose. No "people's revolution" is micro managed, it is impossible to do so.

No, you haven't answered my points. You have attempted to obfuscate what I have pointed out, by continuously stating that the role these men and organizations have played was minimalist.

So let me ask point blank, where would this movement be without, adbusters, or the donations continuously pouring in through such? The correct answer is, it would not exist.

As for the Arab Spring, do you even know who organized and funded the demonstrations in Tahir Square, Libya, Tunisia, etc? Hint: it wasn't the people in the respective nations.

You can continue to dodge these issues with comments like: "Playing both ends against the middle is not so much different from corporations trying to buy both Republican and Democrat candidates, in order to cover their bets no matter who wins an election." Which by the way is a contradiction to most of your statements.

However, to play along, corporations are not individual people with publicly stated goals of changing the face of the global government. Corporations do not fund uprisings that undermine their financial gains. Uprisings that directly mirror one's aspirations for change to the social and governmental order.

I'm not dodging the issues. I'm *disagreeing* with you. I am willing to change my opinion if you provide strong evidence rather than merely suggestive evidence. Judges in court demand a reasonable standard of proof and I am doing the same.

"It is about organizing, inciting, and then turning the mob loose. No "people's revolution" is micro managed, it is impossible to do so."

Please read Gene Sharp's longer works, of which "From dictatorship to democracy" is just a distillation. When a dictator lifts the lid on the pressure cooker a little, it IS possible for the people to organise spontaneously so as to overthrow him. They may have differing ideas of what to replace him with - an Islamic Ayatollah, a New Age Maitreya, or a secular President - but to concentrate on one of those subgroups (eg, the winner) while excluding of the rest is to distort the historical account of what happened.

"So let me ask point blank, where would this movement be without, adbusters, or the donations continuously pouring in through such? The correct answer is, it would not exist."

I don't have to agree with your answer to your own question. The movement would be different, probably weaker, but for you to say it wouldn't exist and have some clout - I believe you will be unable to prove that. The London equivalent was a lot more spontaneous and there were many Occupy movements outside the USA.

"As for the Arab Spring, do you even know who organized and funded the demonstrations in Tahir Square, Libya, Tunisia, etc? Hint: it wasn't the people in the respective nations."

Organized - see my comments re Gene Sharp's handbook of peaceful revolution being in the hands of its leaders. Funding - how much money does it take for a million people to walk into the centre of a large city every day for a month and face a line of army shooters? None - it takes courage, not money.

Honestly, there are people round here who would call the US Declaration and War of Independence a New Age conspiracy.
To Anonymous 5:43 I intended to finish but when I got into the histories of "the Twelve" who convened (Frank Laubach, E. Stanley Jones, Sam Shoemaker, Glenn Clark (Camps Farthest Out), Rev. Sherry Day and found far deeper levels of occultism than I had guessed and then there were the obvious ties to Billy Graham, I decided that for the time being it was just TOO MUCH and might destroy the faith of some. I kept in mind Jesus' directions to "let the tares alone" because in pulling up the tares, one might also harm the wheat. Many people trace their faith to these earlier figures. As to why I spoke out on the others, the Barbara Marx Hubbard, David Spangler active on-going collaboration could not be ignored and had to be exposed to prevent future damage to the same souls.

I will probably write it or include it in my still in progress update of HIDDEN DANGERS. I'm still praying about that.


This is where our conversation is either going to end, or get ugly. The fact is you started this conversation protesting other posters opinions and conjecture regarding protesters "being used", "being played against the middle", etc. Yet when confronted with the timeline of events, the organizers and monetary donors, and the continued monetary and organizational support from the same, all you offer is personal opinion and conjecture.

Did I ever say that any of these events could not have occurred without these influences? No, I didn't, in fact you do have a point in that some less organized event MAY have occurred. That, however, is NOT what happened. In honesty I would argue, that the reality is the FACTS show nothing was being organized prior to the intervention of Adbusters.

Yes, other groups have since sprang up. They however, are directly reactionary to the initial marches on Wall Street, and are as of this point now linked to Adbusters as well. So in context, for me to say such a group would not exist is incorrect, and would be conjecture. However to state that such would exist is solely opinion and conjecture.

As for the issues with the Arab Spring, you do realize that before anyone took to the streets, they had been organized and given direction don't you? You do realize that once they took to the streets donations allowed them to maintain their presence, by feeding and providing water, first aid, etc.

You can't have this both ways. You can't question peoples opinions of the events, when their opinions reflect the way the events have actually transpired. When you offer NOTHING but your own opinions and conjecture, even in the face of the facts of the situation. Or, have you actually not taken the time to read through and follow the pieces I provided you?
well, between these guys and the antipas ministries crew,
maybe some of the OWS who are not
Christian or even anti Christian because of the depredations of the calvinist predatory economics (Calvin, by the way, along with the Venetian crew, is how usury got changed in definition from ANY interest to
excessive" interest, and standards from early to the middle ages were overturned, which is why we have compound interest and the derivatives market now)
maybe some OWS on hearing about Jesus not being for money and worldly power and oppression of the poor by the rich, just might decide to give Him a hearing and convert.
"In principle, the Arab Spring might have begun as a New Age movement but got hijacked by Islamists."
it would be nice if the OWS movement
could get hijacked by Bible believing Christians.

Calvin is how the *Roman Catholic* ban on interest got changed. There was never a ban on interest for anybody but Jews lending to Jews, as that was in the Mosaic covenant only, which the NT explains does not apply to Christians. So Rome was mistaken to insist theologically that the ban was mandatory on Christians. You might, however, think it wise for a nation to adhere to those parts of Mosaic Law that relate to interpersonal relations (rather than relations between men and God). At the very least, the financial regulations that were put in place after the Great Depression, such as the Glass-Steagall Act, which had successfully prevented any such repeat, should have been retained not repealed, and the madness of modern derivative markets that rebundled lousy mortgages twice over and hid them so effectively that they ended up with AAA ratings, should never have been permitted.
islam vs. paganism it is nothing unusual for the more obvious forms of satanism, demonism and occultism to be intensely denounced and opposed by Christian ministries that are sunk in some serious heresies and problem practices that are more subtle deceptions. I have read a very good analysis online that Mohammed was possessed at least part of the time, and that he had some worries about this himself at one or two points. The end result with Islam is the Shariah law, which is unjust, foments all kinds of sexual immorality at least among men, reduces a rape victim to a punishable committer of illicit sex, renders any country under its control effectively lawless because it takes 4 eye witnesses to a crime to get a conviction, though Mohammed only required this in the case of a woman accused of adultery explicitly stated as because this crime is so easily charged by other women with grudges and competition in mind, and denies Christ, and keeps the demon inhibiting church bells silent and demon inhibiting sign of the cross from being all over the place. The main element in the shift from early islam to present was a mystic named Hallal I think, who liked to meditate in graveyards and got the koran declared a divine thing in itself almost like a god. early islam was bad enough of course.

I see no reason why two Christians cannot keep this courteous; in fact it would be a disgrace otherwise. I attack arguments I disagree with, not people. We can let Constance's readers assign motives and decide for themselves whether anybody is ducking questions and blurring comments.

I am not sure whether the London equivalent of Occupy preceded Wall St. What I can say is that even if Wall St inspired the rest, that is not the same as them having a common sponsor, if any. Sponsorship is what we were discussing, so please do not shift the goalposts. Moreover it seems to me that you are looking exclusively at the US (and maybe Canada) Occupiers. While I greatly respect the USA, it is not the world and there were other protests elsewhere. I know a committed and serious Christian who spent several hours in person getting to know the London campers specifically in order to learn what their grievances were, and overall you could not call them a New Age crowd.

As for Arab Spring, you have not provided any evidence on this thread to back up your assertions. You wrote: "you do realize that before anyone took to the streets, they had been organized and given direction don't you? You do realize that once they took to the streets donations allowed them to maintain their presence, by feeding and providing water, first aid, etc."

I accept of course that word went round calling for a gathering in Tahrir Square one day, and the demo was thereafter maintained day after day. But that was easily certainly capable of being organised by a few committed opponents of the regime. They might have been Islamists, secularists, New Age or just people with relatives unjustly in prison. How do you claim to distinguish? As for feeding the crowd, a crowd expecting trouble doesn't go expecting food, and can do without it for many hours. Water? In hot countries people going out for hours carry water; and it is not difficult for houses of sympathetic people along the routes into town to make jugs of water available. First Aid, ditto. The manual for what they did is Gene Sharp's - which is ideology-neutral - and the leaders in Cairo, at least, are known to have based their protest on it. Mporeover the main beneficiary is proving to be militant Islam, which is utterly hostile to New Age.
Nyquist makes a good case that the Arab uprisings may have been pushed forward (and are being taken advantage of) by the Russian FSB (KGB).

There are multiple threats to the West, and not everything that threatens the current order can be linked to the New Agers. They are a small (but growing) subset of "People Who Want The Christian West Destroyed", or who would discard the old ways for new, supposedly better ways. These are the revolutionaries of our time. Some are New Age, some are Commies, some are anarchists, some probably can't be easily pigeonholed. But as Constance has pointed out, Biblically it appears as if the New Agers or something really close to what they believe will come out on top of the coming chaos, or the "Coming Age of Barbarism" to borrow from a book title you might all have read.

The barbarians are not only at the gate, they have set up shop inside the walls for quite some time now through deception and other tactics. Most people I know are now in "damage control" mode, and have abandoned the "let's turn the tide" mode. The pillars of Western Civilization have been eroded too far to build it back up again.

I consider myself well informed about Islam - koran, tradition (hadith), practice and history - and I agree with all you say except the last bit about a supposed shift from early Islam to its present form due to some mystic, which is news to me. Islam was always bellicose, reflecting the verses which Muhammad spoke after he fled Mecca for Medina in 622AD, then began raiding with lethal force caravan trains and towns until he was powerful enough to return in military triumph to Mecca. Rather different from the life of Christ... The Medina verses command physical conquest of the whole world for Allah. After Muhammad died in 622AD, by which time he was in charge of the entire Arabian peninsula, the four "rightly guided caliphs" attacked the Byzantine and Sassanid empires with devastating effect. The Zoroastrian empire of the Sassanids based in Persia (Iran) was finished wthin 20 years. Egypt, Palestine and Asia minor were taken by force from the Byantine empire forever. A pincer movement on Europe developed which was stopped only at Constantinople at 718AD and in France in 732AD. Since then, whenever Islam has had enough military power, it has attacked.

Early on during his revelations, Muhammad was worried that he was demon-possessed. According to many reports in Sahih Bukhari (the most authentic hadith traditions) he fell to the ground or foamed at the mouth prior to uttering verses of the koran. His wife Khadija assured him that he was doing fine, however. We cannot know the extent to which he really was demon-possessed and the extent to which he was knowingly inventing verses to justify himself (such as 33:50-51 stating that he was allowed more wives than other Muslims), but a mixture of the two seems clear. It was always claimed that the koran was dictated to him from the original in heaven by an angel, Jibril (Gabriel); it was taken as the word of Allah from the start.
PS Typo: Muhammad died in 632AD.
It is true as one of the Anons says that the Muslim Brotherhood and its like organizations are vehemently anti-New Age. They don't like the syncretism of the New Age, the finding of "truths" in religions other than their own. Some of the Muslim mystic sects, like Sufis (whose meetings I attended while in the New Age many years ago)
do practice Syncretism, but these mystic sects are banned and persecuted by the Muslim orthodox such as the Muslim Brotherhood.

Horrors, we are persecuted on all sides--by fundamentalists on one side and by mystics on the other. The narrow road is VERY narrow at this point. Soon there will be no room for us on the road, and we can only go up.
Mariel - If you live in the USA then, your name notwithstanding, man up! There has never been significant persecution of Christians in this land. It is on the horizon, yes, but if you quail today then how can you stand when it actually comes? It is not nice to see freedoms being eroded, but our brothers and sisters in many other lands have it FAR rougher than us today. Let's keep perspective. Use your life to build up your faith, and then you will be able to stand in that day...
There are so many ideas going on here, it's hard to follow. However, may I make a couple of comments.

One,Christine seems to have good insights.

Two, I am hoping, Constance, that Newt's "baggage" may come flooding out now that he's in front. I hope some unusual things may happen to bring a moral person to the top, such as Ron Paul or Jon Huntsman.
I read something yesterday which I thought was very interesting thinking, that Huntsman's overall goals for the nation are similar to Sarah Palin's, i.e. on overseas policy he is not a super-hawk or neo-con, but wants an excellent defense system without continual attacks on foreign lands. Ron Paul also falls into that category, more or less. Michelle Bachman and Rick Santorum are obviously committed, moral Christians, yet seem to have some degree of neo-con hawkishness--which, again, is not to deny that we need a strong national defense.
The article I read suggested that Sarah Palin might endorse Jon Huntsman, and of course she is being urged still to run herself. Ron Paul doing as well as he is (second in Iowa polls) shows that some people are thinking outside their usual boxes, even if they don't entirely agree on all of his goals. I think Huntsman and Palin are thinking about 2016, but we know that
we need help as a nation before then.

Excuse my musings. The article author was one whom my son admires but I forget his name. My son is not a Christian but he has a high moral sensibility (not a "mystic" either). I think that at this point my son is Christian in all but name.
Constance (and all), have you seen this article?

"...option being explored is a separate agreement outside the EU treaty that could involve a core of around 8-10 euro zone countries, officials say"

we're getting closer! Keep watching!
Nowhere does the Bible imply that the 10 regions must be that of a revived Roman Empire. They might be:

1. Ten European States in a federation that goes on to claim the world.

2. Ten Eurabian States around the Mediterranean (which actually corresponds more closely to the Roman Empire than (1)).

3. Ten mid-Eastern States that use Islam to unite against Israel.

4. Ten world regions that federate.

Given the rise of China and India, I'd bet on (4).
China's navy should speed up its development and prepare for warfare, President Hu Jintao has said.
Well, Churchill said that if you want peace, prepare for war... what is coming is a rebalancing of power in the Pacific, which will become rather less an American lake. When China is powerful enough it is going to go after Taiwan and the USA would do well not to go to war over the issue.
From Bloomberg Businessweek 12/7/11 12:14 am


"By the spring you'll be surprised by the amount of organizations doing this."

China Says Either WW3 or New World Order
Pearl Harbor 70th anniversary today. Nothing to do with the NWO IMHO.
Anon. 4:20
The thought that it would be a
revived Roman Empire does not
just arise out of a vacuum.
Revelations chapter 17 describes
it as "The beast that was, and is
not, and yet is."
_and in verses 10 and 11:
10) " And there are seven kings:
five are fallen, and one is, and
the other is not yet come; and
when he cometh, he must
continue a short space.
11) And the beast that was,
and is not, even he is the eighth,
and is of the seven, and goes
into perdition."

Most scholars through the
centuries have taken this to
indicate a revived Roman Empire
for good reason. At the time of
John's Revelations, the Roman
Empire was pretty much a
collapsed empire, though it was
still fresh in John's mind. So
that description seems to fit.

_But you're right.
Daniel chapter 7 says, in a
summary in verse 23:

23) " Thus he said, The fourth
beast shall be the fourth
kingdom upon earth, which shall
be diverse from all kingdoms,
and shall devour the whole
earth, and shall tread it down
and break it in pieces."

So it would seem reasonable to
me that the fourth kingdom on
earth known as The Beast will
start out as a revised Roman
Empire, but change drastically
while consolidating power with
other major kingdoms and
also while casting off some of
it's original kingdoms.
It will be the first and only true
worldwide undisputed power
that the Ceasars and Alexanders
and Hitlers could only dream about.

It won't last very long though;
three and a half years or so.
Constance says @ 12:09 AM:

“For me Scripture trumps all.”

Constance says @ 12:22 PM:

“… I decided that for the time being it was just TOO MUCH and might destroy the faith of some. I kept in mind Jesus' directions to "let the tares alone" because in pulling up the tares, one might also harm the wheat. Many people trace their faith to these earlier figures.”

Dear Constance,

I hope you receive this in the spirit in which it is written.

I was very much encouraged to read that for you, “Scripture trumps all.” That is the mark after all of all true believers as Christ declared “… he that is of God heareth God’s words.” John 8:47 The word is also the judge of those that do NOT believe as stated in John 8:37 “ … but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.” Paul also wrote that “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” 2nd. Timothy 3: 16,17 Also, John writes: “We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.” 1st. John 4:6 Obviously, you are correct that Scripture really does in fact “trump all.”

With the authority of Scripture in mind, I’d like to address your post of 12:22 PM. First and foremost, the truth must not only be declared, it must be contended for as Jude 1:3 states: “… exhort you that ye earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” 2nd. Timothy 2:25, 26 states: “In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them reprentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.” Note here the important part the “truth” (“thy word is truth”) plays in freeing believers from the snare of the devil. Obviously, this passage also teaches that we are to do this in “meekness,” but, never the less, we are to declare the truth. (end of part 1)

Rev 17:11 about the beast who once was, now is not, yet is [agasin] is not so clear cut. the passage goes on to say that he is an 8th king. This might refer to a human being who dies and is resurrected miraculously by Satan, rather than being an empire. Then the timing of "once was, now is not, yet will be" (my paraphrase) is unclear - is the present that is referred to at the time of John's life, or at the time of the other events prophesied in Revelation?

I've been in the eschatology business for long enough to know that insistence on one interpretation of an ambiguous verse is liable to come unstuck. The time will come when it's obvious which interpretation is correct, but that time is not yet.

"At the time of
John's Revelations, the Roman
Empire was pretty much a
collapsed empire, though it was
still fresh in John's mind."

You're kidding! John wrote late in the first century. The Roman Empire reached its greatest extent a few decades AFTER that, under Trajan. It was decadent, but it was still on the ascendant in John's day.
(part 2)

Jesus himself had a very interesting discourse with professing “believers.” For this, the ENTIRE chapter of John 8 should be STUDIED. However, I’d like to point out several items of interest here. Jesus makes it very plain that mere “belief” is NOT enough. True belief must be built upon the word of God. Verses 30 -32 in this chapter make this point abundantly clear: “As he spake these words, many believed on him. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” Ultimately, these professing “believers” argued with Christ because the word was the defining line drawn in the sand as Christ declared: “I know that ye are Abraham’s seed, but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.” Vs. 37

The point is this: to the true BELIEVER, the word is not OFFENSIVE. It is, however, offensive to those that do not truly believe. If people have their “faith” built upon any other foundation and you are concerned that, by you declaring the truth, you might “destroy the faith of some” the question begs to be asked; what kind of “faith” is it that these people have in the first place? Truth will NEVER destroy TRUE faith; it will only build it up. If the foundation upon which someone’s faith is built upon is shifting sand, it is not built upon the “solid rock” of Christ.

God’s truth sets us free. Satan’s lies and deception is meant for bondage and destruction. Satan is at work on many fronts … not just in the New Age Movement. His tactics are incredibly clever, so much so that we are specifically warned in 2nd Corinthians 11: 14,15: “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the minister of righteousness.” Satan, the father of all lies, HATES the truth as revealed in God’s word, because it is the only sure thing that exposes him as the false god of this world. He hates the power that it gives to believers in their spiritual battle because the “word of God” is the “sword of the Spirit.” Ephesians 6:17
Please be bold in declaring the truth for Christ’s honor and glory and for the edification of the saints.
Islam being bellicose - yes, but it was different. if you were of a religion of the book (Jew, Christian or Sabaian whatever that was) you were exempt from forced conversion if you paid a tax. A monastery (Nestorian now I think since the Chalcedon split) claims to have a written statement from Mohammed that this and any place where Christians lived this way (monastically) was exempt from the
dhimmi tax.

The change I refer to was the moving of the koran from something to be studied in a rational frame of mind to something worshipped, divine almost in itself, and the blurry mystical state makes it easy to ignore what you shouldn't. For instance, aside from whether the laws were right or wrong in it, I recall nothing that mandates that all local custom even anti koranic be maintained, because supposedly God would not allow moslems to be deceived. yet this is the notion that is why certain things like magic and female genital mutilation that are either condemned or absent are allowed. Why the dress code for women varies wildly.

The dress code as per Mohammed a hadith did not require the hands or face to be covered, and the koran doesn't even discuss it except it probably mentions modesty.

once the turks got into the act, the bellicosity of islam got a whole lot more intense, and again a failure to stand against murder in the face of custom vs. koran and real politik played a role in failure to bring the turks into the more tolerable pattern of the arabs.

Turkish law and custom required, to prevent civil wars from brothers fighting over the kingship, that the one chosen to be king would kill his brothers, to be done by strangling with a silk cord so royal blood not be spilled. This was accepted by the mullahs.

the dhimmi laws remained, but now oppressive amounts of tax could be done, and revolts more political or economic than aimed at quashing islam per se were retaliated against with savagery.

(Don't believe any Serbian nonsense about the situation in early days in the Balkans, the first thing St. Prince Lazar's widow did was marry his sister off to Bayezid and make an alliance with him against the equally - or perhaps more so - Orthodox Bulgars in a turf war.)

I read once that in the massacres against the Armenians the local sufi mystics played a big role in encouraging it, I think it was the Bektashi sect but I may be wrong.

four schools of shariah law developed. all of them flawed apparently if you judge them by the koran and the hadiths. the big flaw is the requirement of FOUR eyewitnesses to any crime to get a conviction, which effectively makes all islamic countries lawless, or a confession. A rape victim is likely to get punished for unlawful sex if the attacker doesn't confess or 4 eyewitnesses don't turn up. All this despite the fact the koran says that it is in the case of a woman accused of adultery that four eyewitnesses are needed because of scheme and envy reasons to accuse and so hard to defend against the charge. This after one of Mohammed's wives was left behind during a march and had a handsome young warrior with her as guard or sent to retrieve her and they were alone for some time naturally.
didn't happen until MANY CENTURIES

Theory and practice of the exemption for 'people of the book' who pay jizya tax were two different things. The church was annihilated in North Africa during Islam's early expansion. And there is no jizya protection racket on offer to Christians in the Islamic Middle East today.

It wasn't the Turks who made Islam more bellicose. Islam started off by attacking the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires and carried on north, east and west until it was stopped militarily. But I accept that, in Persia and beyond, it permitted Christianity (which was Nestorian in those lands). That all came to an end when the Mongols embraced Islam.
Yes, thank you Ray and Christine,

I quoted it and then misread what
I had quoted. Thank you for the

The text; ( Revelations 17:8 ),
says, "The beast that thou sawest
was... and is not, and yet is."
verse 10 says: "There are seven
kings. Five are fallen, one is,
and one is not yet come, and when
he cometh, he must continue a short
So, to correct myself, the five
would be Egypt, Nineveh, Babylon,
Persia and Greece. The one that is,
in John's time, would obviously be
But verse 11 was the reason for
the point that I was trying to make
which was that the Beast of
Revelations would be "the beast
that was, and is not, even he is the
EIGHTH, and is OF the seven, and
goeth into perdition".

Anon.4:20 ( Ray? )had said that there
was nothing in the Bible that says that
the Beast would be a revived Roman
Empire. The 11th verse could very well
be interpreted that way. The seventh
empire would be this E.U. which
has only been around a short time,
and the eighth a major reshuffling
and consolidating of the seventh, which
appears to be happening right now.

That was my point.
Dear Constance 9:38 P.M.

We mustn't forget that Matthew Fox was - and most likely still is - associated with the self-professed "witch" named Starhawk ( Miriam Simos)


In fact, Matthew Fox was ordered by the Vatican to dissociate himself from Starhawk when he hired her to teach at a Catholic college back in the 1980's.

Your book A PLANNED DECEPTION is quoted in the following article at the EWTN website:

Fr. Matthew Fox

(Chapter 6 of the book UNICORN IN THE SANCTUARY by Randy England, published by Tan Books and Publishers, P. O. Box 424, Rockford, IL 61105, 800-437-5876.)

In her book "A Planned Deception," Constance Cumbey wrote a chapter entitled "The Incredible Heresies of Father Matthew Fox." She related her experience of hearing Matthew Fox address parish leaders in a talk sponsored by the Liturgy Committee of the Archdiocese of Detroit:

He shamelessly committed public blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, by telling an impressionable audience well under the spell of his hypnotic powers that the Holy Spirit was demanding they adopt wicca (witchcraft), shamanism, and goddess worship. Hundreds of well dressed parish leaders and nuns listened to him in trance-like rapture. They appeared to adore Matthew Fox! One distinguished looking CCD teacher proudly told me that he had taught St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine for 30 years. "That was" he said "a waste of time. I wish I had been teaching Father Matthew Fox!"[3].........

........Miriam Simos (Starhawk) is a practicing witch on the staff of Matthew Fox's Institute for Culture and Creation Spirituality (ICCS). Her specialty is the teaching of ritual. Constance Cumbey calls her, "one of the world's most politically active and important witches. She is a high priestess in a major coven and has been [active] politically in both the witches/Neopagan movements as well as the feminist movement. She is a frequent speaker at New Age convocations and conferences."[24] Starhawk writes: "In the Craft, we do not believe in the Goddess—we connect with her; through the moon, the stars, the ocean, the earth, through trees, animals, through other human beings, through ourselves. She is here. She is within us all."[25]........


And politically active Starhawk is indeed! She is not only a cofounder of Code Pink along with Jodi Evans, but she was also involved with the so-called Gaza peace march with the likes of Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn.

Bill Ayers, who should have been "occupying" jail for his past terrorist Weather Underground activities instead of a job as a tenured professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago has recently been giving encouragement and lectures to Occupy Wall Street demonstrators in Chicago.

Gaza Freedom March: A Powerful Day of Action 12-31-09
By Starhawk | Published: December 31, 2009

Hamas Terrorists Guaranteed Code Pink’s Safety in Gaza
by Kristinn Taylor and Andrea Shea King

Code Pink says it has organized seven delegations to Hamas-controlled Gaza in the past year.

Jodie Evans and Code Pink were joined in Egypt on this visit by other friends of Obama, including his Hyde Park, Chicago neighbors, former Weather Underground terrorists Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn.

Code Pink’s initiation of its pro-Hamas, anti-Israel campaign followed a September 2008 meeting with Hamas patron President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran in New York City. Two months later, shortly after Obama was elected U.S. president, Jodie Evans and Code Pink visited Iran at the personal invitation of Ahmadinejad. The group stayed mainly in Tehran and was taken by the head of the U.S. Desk of Iran’s Foreign Ministry Davood Mohammad Niar to visit the holy city of Qom.

Since its inception in 2002, Code Pink has worked closely with terrorist groups and state sponsors of terrorism to undermine the United States’ efforts in the war on terror. At the same time, the group has been embraced by the ‘progressive’ wing of the Democratic party at all levels, including the White House.
P.S. More interesting links.

The Ayers Brothers Connection: Coaching #OccupyChicago, Calling for School ‘Occupations’
by Trevor Loudon

Bill Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn lend support to Occupy Wall Street

Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers Like ‘Occupy Wall Street’


Recall that Van Jones, who has described himself as a communist, is an associate of Starhawk. As Dorothy once discovered in the course of her research, both have given presentations on the SHIFT site which is an appendage of the Institute of Noetic Sciences.


...Join Starhawk as she takes part in intimate, in-depth discussions with five fellow pioneers who are helping to move us into the future we want to see: Van Jones, Vandana Shiva, Toby Hemenway, Ernest Callenbach, Carolyne Stayton, and Mark Lakeman. In her talks with these remarkable thinkers, writers and activists, she'll explore some of the most inspiring efforts to create the diverse, sustainable, exuberant society depicted in The Fifth Sacred Thing. For the course, Starhawk will also suggest discussion topics, exercises and journaling for participants to develop their own clear visions and map the path for getting there. Participants will come away from this course with renewed inspiration and practical ideas for making the transition to a truly abundant, just and resilient world...
The following is interesting given Code Pink co-founder Medea Benjamin's claims that neither Van Jones nor the unions were behind the Occupy Wall street Movement.

Occupy Wall Street hires former Obama czar Van Jones

Here is a link to Medea Benjamin's assertions about Van Jones and the unions.

Code Pink's Medea Benjamin: Unions, Van Jones Not Behind 'Occupy Wall Street'
Joe Schoffstall
Thursday, October 6, 2011 - 6:56pm

Van Jones Stumps for Obama at Occupy San Francisco

Doesn't seem like this underwhelming crowd was too impressed with Van Jones.....or Obama!

Van Jones gets Called out@OccupySf.wmv

I might have guessed that Starhawk would be on the Gaza bandwagon. By associating with apostates like Matthew Fox she is able to get into mainstream denominations. In England she has spoken at St James Church, Piccadilly, notorious as the most New Age church in the entire Church of England and where William Blake was baptised. (It's in central London and a stunning building.) In better times the then vicar would have lost his job for offering his pulpit to a practising witch.
Anonymous 7:17 P.M.

Matthew Fox was booted out of the Dominican order not only for hiring Starhawk to teach at a Catholic college, but also for his own heretical pagan/pantheistic teachings.

One of Matthew Fox's sidekicks is Brian Swimme. Check out the following.

The New Age Catholics are back on the march. An Elizabeth Johnson, Ph.D. is one of the important "intellectualizers" of that movement with her book THE SEARCH FOR THE LIVING GOD." It is very, very similar to what I found when I entered my investigation scene in the early 1980s.

The Middle East "Arab Spring", Occupy Wall Street, Occupy London and just about everywhere else are most clearly related. Their own websites attest to that. They are all "cells" in their global apparatus.

Just like the 1980s. Here comes the FALSE DICHOTOMIES, and the rest of the "go back to sleep" disinformation.

Dear Constance
Who oversees and is in charge of that 'global apparatus' of cells please? Some of the discussions here are confusing.
Anon at 4:19 AM, it's the knights of Malta SMOM (the remnants of the KTs), the Jesuits, the Kinghts of Colombus, and the Vatican at large. But you won't learn thaqt here. Want the names? Do your own research. Try, spiritually smart dot com, and, unhived mind [dot com?]. Beware of Eric Phelps though, believe it or not he's a probably a Vatican insider disinfo agent, he's also a rampant racist to boot unless that's part of his disguise to ruin real truthers' credibility. Anyway, I'll leave it in your... erhem... capable hands....
Paul said at 9:18 PM: "Anon.4:20 ( Ray? )had said that there

Are yoiu sure it's Ray, Paul, if not why suggest it?

Anne Onimous

FYI, I have never posted anything on this site without using the name "RayB."
I thought it might be Ray because
the previous post to Rays post was
the one I was referring to, and Rays
post said that it was "part 2", which
made me think that he had simply
forgotten to sign his name to the
previous post.

Once again, my mistake.
I'm on a roll.
Dear Constance
Who oversees and is in charge of that 'global apparatus' of cells please? Some of the discussions here are confusing.
(part 3)

RE: the New Age Movement

My personal opinion is that the NAM is just one of a multi-headed beast that is at war with the God of the bible. ALL movements that oppose God's word are God's enemies and should be vigorously opposed by His people.

I am currently reading Martin Luther's "Bondage of the Will" which is Luther's answer to the humanist Erasmus' "Free Will" treatise. In it, Luther continually uses the Word of God to make his argument. It is quite impressive to see the power of his arguments, whereas, Erasmus uses "common sense" and human philosophy to back up his. Isn't this ultimately what it is all about? Man's "word" against God's? After all, this was the original lie that Satan used in the garden ... "yea, hath God said?" The bottom line, again, is that if you find yourself arguing with God's word, YOU are in the camp of the enemy ... regardless of what you might claim or think.
Contrary to popular "belief," God's word is not divided up into "minor" and "major" truths and believers are never given the option to believe what they want as opposed to his revealed word.

Fighting one "enemy" while ignoring other enemies is similar to being on a sinking ship with multiple leaks while attempting to plug only one. If you don't plug the others, the ship will obviously still sink. People wonder why our "age" is so dark? It's because the light of God's word is being attacked and extinguihed on many fronts!
Free will: - the term is meaningless until we define what man does or does not have 'free will' to do. Much confusion has swirled around failure to specify that. For example, secular philosophers debate whether man has free will to do *anything* if the laws of physics which the atoms in our minds and bodies obey are deterministic. This debate, which today involves quantum mechanics and how the world we see is related to the world of atoms, has nothing to do with the *theological* debate over free will. Next question: Do we have free will NOT TO SIN? If the answer is No, then is God not unfair in condemning sinners to hell? If the answer is Yes, then why do people sin? (St Paul says that all men sin.) As you see, each side can ask the other hard questions. At that point I can say only to Christians: Do not divide over the answer, keep thinking, and love each other. The question also relates to the Fall and original sin. Here I prefer to discuss not the question of whether we are we born sinless (which has divided the church), but the deeper question of whether we are born with a different relation to sin from Adam and Eve pre-Fall, and if so then how did we get that way?

The final Free Will question is: Do we have free will to follow Jesus or not? Here I believe that the answer, to those at least who have heard the gospel, must be Yes. Otherwise God is judging US for what HE DOES in us, which is unfair - and God is not unfair. Calvinists are, for historical reasons, allergic to the suggestion that we can take part in our salvation to any extent, but they would reduce us to puppets (although they would not agree with that statement). I agree with them that without Jesus salvation is not possible, but I take the view that God offers us a free gift and it is up to us - really us - whether to accept it. Those who do are not better than those who don't - they are (re)made better.
To Anonymous @ 1:19 PM:

Romans 9:

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Man's "free will" .. due to his fallen sin nature is at enmity with the God of the Scriptures. His spiritual condition is actually dead due to the fall, and has no ability whatsoever within himself to believe in a manner that will please God. Fallen man does not even have the ability to understand spiritual things as revealed by the Word of God. Without experiencing the new birth, he cannot understand, nor can he "see" the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
2 Timothy 2:25-26

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Note that it is God, not man, that must act in order for man to acknowledge the truth ... and that Satan actually is able to take the natural man "captive ... at his will."

So much for "free will." Mankind does have free will, but it is limited by its fallen nature which cannot act in a truly faithful, believing manner without the grace of God.
I'll only address the first section of your post concerning the papal bull which is evidence of the "persecution of the church." We are talking about a a papal decree which allowed for, in fact NECESSITATED, the dominance and genocide on a mass scale of an entire race of human beings in the name of the Lord. This was a CLEAR violation of human rights (as if such a thing existed in 1493.) To claim that this is an instance of the church being persecuted is plain ridiculous. Unless of course you support the mass genocide of indigenous peoples.

Query, how many new agers have participated in mass genocide?

Query, how many Christians have participated in mass genocide?
check out THOMAS DAHLHEIMER's article, titled - Constance Cumbey, Matthew Fox And The "New Age Christ". It is located at
Constance Cumbey wrote “We were scripturally warned that great delusion would come upon the earth and those who had not the love of the truth would be caused to believe a lie.”

Does the “word of God” tell the truth, or does it lie and deceive people? You decide, the “word of God” says, "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved." (Psalms 104).

I have "the love of the truth", I belive that the earth is not immovable, and that it revolves swiftly around the sun.

People who believe in the “word of God” do NOT have the love of the truth, they are the ones who have been inflicted with a great delusion.

Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote: "Unbelievers deserve not only to be separated from the Church, but be
exterminated from the World by death."

Jesus said, "YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW".
Constance Cumbey wrote “We were scripturally warned that great delusion would come upon the earth and those who had not the love of the truth would be caused to believe a lie.”

Does the “word of God” tell the truth, or does it lie and deceive people? You decide, the “word of God” says, "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved." (Psalms 104).

I have the “love of the truth“, I believe that the earth is not immovable, and that it revolves swiftly around the sun.

People who believe in the “word of God” do NOT have the love of the truth, they are the ones who have been inflicted with a “great delusion”.

Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote: "Unbelievers deserve not only to be separated from the Church, but also to be exterminated from the World by death."

Constance Cumbey wrote “We were scripturally warned that great delusion would come upon the earth and those who had not the love of the truth would be caused to believe a lie.”

Does the “word of God” tell the truth, or does it lie and deceive people? You decide, the “word of God” says, "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved." (Psalms 104).

I have the “love of the truth“, I believe that the earth is not immovable, and that it revolves swiftly around the sun.

People who believe in the “word of God” do NOT have the love of the truth, they are the ones who have been inflicted with a “great delusion”.

Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote: "Unbelievers deserve not only to be separated from the Church, but also to be exterminated from the World by death."

Constance Cumbey wrote “We were scripturally warned that great delusion would come upon the earth and those who had not the love of the truth would be caused to believe a lie.”

Does the “word of God” tell the truth, or does it lie and deceive people? You decide, the “word of God” says, "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved." (Psalms 104).

I have the “love of the truth“, I believe that the earth is not immovable, and that it revolves swiftly around the sun.

People who believe in the “word of God” do NOT have the love of the truth, they are the ones who have been inflicted with a “great delusion”.

Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote: "Unbelievers deserve not only to be separated from the Church, but also to be exterminated from the World by death."

Constance Cumbey wrote “We were scripturally warned that great delusion would come upon the earth and those who had not the love of the truth would be caused to believe a lie.”

Does the “word of God” tell the truth, or does it lie and deceive people? You decide, the “word of God” says, "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved." (Psalms 104).

I have the “love of the truth“, I believe that the earth is not immovable, and that it revolves swiftly around the sun.

People who believe in the “word of God” do NOT have the love of the truth, they are the ones who have been inflicted with a “great delusion”.

Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote: "Unbelievers deserve not only to be separated from the Church, but also to be exterminated from the World by death."

Constance Cumbey wrote “We were scripturally warned that great delusion would come upon the earth and those who had not the love of the truth would be caused to believe a lie.”....Does the “word of God” tell the truth, or does it lie and deceive people? You decide, the “word of God” says, "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved." (Psalms 104)....I have the “love of the truth“, I believe that the earth is not immovable, and that it revolves swiftly around the sun....People who believe in the “word of God” do NOT have the love of the truth, they are the ones who have been inflicted with a “great delusion”....Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote: "Unbelievers deserve not only to be separated from the Church, but also to be exterminated from the World by death."...Jesus said, “WHAT YOU SOW YOU SHALL REAP”.
Constance Cumbey wrote, We were scripturally warned that great delusion would come upon the earth and those who had not the love of the truth would be caused to believe a lie.

Does the word of God tell the truth, or does it lie and deceive people? You decide, the word of God says, The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved. (Psalms 104).

I have the love of the truth, I believe that the earth is not immovable, and that it revolves swiftly around the sun.

People who believe in the word of God do NOT have the love of the truth, they are the ones who have been inflicted with a “great delusion.

Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote: Unbelievers deserve not only to be separated from the Church, but also to be exterminated from the World by death.

Oy vey! Timothy James (Matthew) Fox is a certifiable kook. And there is such irony in his name ta boot!

Timothy (honoring God)
James (surplanter)
Matthew (gift of God)
Fox (animal in the dog family known for its cunning and trickery)

Anyway, it just amazes me as to what people think is "spiritual." The more bizarre, perverted, and animalistic their worship is, the more "spiritual" it is for them.

When I read about the..what was it..techno cosmic mass (eye roll)..I'm reminded of when God sarcastically poked fun of the idolaters who cut down a tree, used it for fuel to warm their backsides and to cook their food, and then had the nerve to bow down to the remaining chunk of hacked up wood (as if it was their god)in worship, as being completely ludicrous...I have to smile. Because I can just see the Almighty mocking them as he's talking - just hilarious!

Honestly, why do all their piddly gods need their help to defend them? I can just hear that guy whine:

"Pooooor Gaia, dear ol' "mother earth"... (deep sigh, palm to face)... she is ssssso delicate that she can't even defend herself from those violent and mean ol' Christians, who have the nerve to fulfill the command of their evil "demiurge" (shaking fist to the sky) to subdue her and rule over her! (Hands extended)Please...
...pleasssse send in your tax deductible donations so we can buy Chinese guillotines (draws finger across his neck) and help us put a STOP to their earth raping madnessssss! Pleassssse... help us ssssssave her! (sniffs and wipes away tears)...Thank you."

Ha ha ha - Oh I can't WAIT to see that guy and all the silly idolater's faces when they see Jesus in the clouds, radiant in all his great power and great glory, to put an end to their lil' New World Order party. (satisfied grin!)

Then, and only then, will the world experience REAL world peace! Yay Jesus! =D
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