Merry Christmas to all and thank you for your patience. I'm also behind in reading comments. I had several rough days with the "cold" or whatever it was last weekend and beyond. I'm still coughing up part of it. We plan a quiet Christmas with Church, family and close friends. Clearly our world is in a real mess. Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus! This day reminds us all of the Hope we have!
Constance
530 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 530 of 530"electricity and magnetism isn't new age but it plays a big role in some of the theosophical society literature"
I think that by "not new age" you mean not an intrinsically demonic phenomenon. I agree. Nevertheless some of the things you have said about it suggest that your beliefs about what it can do are somewhat New Age; and you have that in common with the theosophists.
If you are genuinely open to learning what electromagnetism is and what it can do, and what it isn't and can't do, ask me a specific question.
Happy New Year!
Physicist
Physicist,
I know what it is. I also know, that the sharp polar limitations on it were used, as earlier with magnetism, to back up sexist ideas male positive female negative blah blah, and the inclusion in oppositions of good vs. evil alongside light, dark;
heat, cold; wet, dry is a dangerous idea that makes evil appear to have a rightful place in the universe along with the other oppositions, neither of which are bad except in a context of, too much heat for instance or to much cold.
the way these things are exploited is the problem. New Age and occult philosophy before that packaged things that don't belong together, and claim certain known things prove the rest of their ideas which they don't.
meanwhile THE VIEW I GIVE ON CHAKRAS IS ONE OF THE MOST POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS TO NEW AGE POP CULTURE IDEAS because it flies in the face of everything they have to
say on this, making their whole system presented as a package questionable.
if they got chakra location and what to do with them WRONG what else do they have wrong? why can't anyone see this view I present is a WEAPON AGAINST NEW AGE RECRUITMENT OF THE YOGA AND ENERGIES IDEAS SORT? I think some here do see that, and
don't want it used being new age themselves.
Dear Dan Bryan
One of my Bible teachers, the late Rev'd Eric Hutchison, had been a missionary in Haiti, and commented that Catholic mission was easier because a blind eye was turned to what people did on Saturday night (Baron Samedi is a voodoo deity) provided that they turned out to Mass on Sunday morning, whereas his denomination (the Anglicans) told people that they had to choose.
Eric didn't go on about the subject and I didn't ask for more detail, but I'm reporting what he said accurately.
Physicist
http://fightthenewage.blogspot.com/2016/01/weapons-against-new-age.html
http://pamsheppardpublishing.com/2011/10/06/deliverance-and-the-7-chakras/
they exist and can function as demonic doorways
the writer apparently is on her own since finding too much evil in "institutional churches" disliking psychically manipulated pastors and congregations she fled, but preaches the usual lies about pagan catholic etc. origins of "institutional churches" so the rest of the site I don't recommend.
Your posts are so convoluted Ms Erikson.
It is as though you are speaking with a mouthful of marbles. Your pro and con about chakras make little sense. Why not just agree with the Bible and call things what God calls them, and let Him speak on the subject and then it isn't hard for anyone to see what is right from His standpoint, and what is wrong from the world's? Now that is a quite novel idea for you isn't it?
The deeper you delve to explain new age things to "fight" them, the more you appear to align with them.
"the way these things are exploited is the problem"
You have the same issue because the way you exploit topics here is certainly a problem.
Anonymous Marko said...
Dan,
Might I suggest that as Susanna defined it, Ecumenism is not a mixture of any consequence? It is certainly not the kind referenced in the verse you quoted from Deuteronomy.
Dear Marko,
Susanna's answer is concise, but I would beg to differ on the point of ecumenism.
The trinity of ecumenism is find consensus, suspended judgment, and broad based acceptance.
These three lead to blind compromise, which is worse than blatant Syncretism.
(There is a way that seems right unto a man but the end is death)
Consensus is what I call Rodney King theology, can't we all get along?
Divisive topics of Bible, doctrine and tradition are taboo.
Suspended judgment is to deny right and wrong, black and white, righteousness and sin, the Holy vs the profane. Your absolute is different from mine, and that is OK?
Broad based acceptance of another is to say, I'm ok, you're ok.
All of the gods we serve are one. All our faiths lead to the mountain of the Lord and salvation.
The gift of ecumenism is compromise and false peace.
Compromise leads to a form of Godliness but to deny the power.
The fruit of compromise is allowing others to die in their sins.
If Catholics are right, they should have the backbone to proclaim the power of the Eucharist without comprise, but not deny the same? Don't say, 'now', that justification is by faith alone, yet leave your Cannon law unchanged, that stating anyone that would declare the same, be anathema?
If Protestants believe that Marian adoration and prayer is idolatry and is sin, how dare they sweep it under some ecumenical rug?
If the Imam or the Rabbi is to ignore the son of God controversy at the detriment of their children's faith?
I believe in true colors, perhaps God will have a remnant of all, instead of some contrived broad road that leads to destruction. If all faith is marginalized then we will like 'good fish' swallow anything including Theosophy.
I thank Constance for her open blog.
Dan Bryan @ 1042 AM.
You have successfully got that tiger by the tail.
Can't be said better than that.
Thanks very much.
This quote from Augustine is powerful.
If you believe what you like in the gospels,
and reject what you don't like,
it is not the gospel you believe,
but yourself.
MCE unforgivenness issues come to mind....
Christine Dear,
You are rambling again. Anon 10:21 said it beautifully. "It is as though you are speaking with a mouthful of marbles."
Dan Bryan @ 10:42 AM ...
I’d like to elaborate on a few points on your well-thought out post; Scripture clearly teaches a "straight gate" whereby "few" there be that find it, conversely the Christ states that there is a "broad way" whereby “many” (i.e. the vast majority) travel upon towards their ultimate destruction. Christ also said "many shall be called, but few chosen."
Regarding the Eucharist; that is just one of many problems (“problems” is a nice way of saying heresies) the RCC has. For example, in the past, I've heard Billy Graham state, in a variety of ways, that the RCC holds to the essentials because "they have the Cross." On the surface, that sounds well and good, but when you scratch that surface, you quickly find out what is underneath. Just below the RCC’s “cross” is the doctrine upon which Rome’s religious system stands, or falls … PURGATORY. With Purgatory, the RCC emphatically denies the true "once, never to be repeated" perfect sacrifice Christ made for sins. With Purgatory, you have the Pope and his minions standing at the foot of the cross, answering Christ as he cried out “IT IS FINISHED” with “NO, IT IS NOT ENOUGH.”
With Purgatory, even the “best” of Catholics must suffer the fiery torments in order to make themselves "worthy" for Heaven! Compare this false, lying doctrine with that of the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel! No comparison can be made. The RCC “gospel” is clearly NOT the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, but one in which the Roman Catholic Hierarchy cleverly concocted in order to keep their followers in perpetual, spiritual BONDAGE to them and their wicked system. If you truly love the souls of the Catholic people, you will, when given the opportunity, share with them the TRUE gospel that truly sets souls free.
(Continued) ...
I have said it before in this forum and I will repeat it again; the Roman Catholic Church preaches a FALSE CHRIST … one of Rome’s own making that serves Rome’s own purposes. The RCC “christ” is of the world, in which one may continue on in a life of sin (because of a lack of TRUE faith in the true Christ) and have their sins “forgiven” by a man (“priest”) and ultimately, through a system of payment for THEIR sins (via Purgatory), concocted by the very system that benefits from it (Masses for the Dead). Such a system is VERY appealing to the fallen, sin-nature of mankind , whereby true faith in Christ and His Word is not. Ultimately, Rome’s system is one in which the “blind are leaders of the blind,” all traveling together along that “broad way” that leads to destruction.
Finally, the ecumenical movement can only survive when Biblical truth is sacrificed upon the altar of unity. Make no mistake about it, the ecumenicalism that pleases Rome is one in which Rome will have the ultimate and final authority. Rome is by far the most powerful political, economic and religious force in the entire world. It is inconceivable that it sees itself as nothing other than that of the leader in the coming One World Religion & One World Government.
Actually it is uniformity, not true Bible unity, these will settle for.
I wanted to make sure I didn't give the impression that that Rome teaches as doctrine that "all" imperfections could and would eventually be cleansed in Rome's Purgatory. Please refer to this amazing list of Rome's "Mortal" and "Venial" sins for clarification. If this doesn't paint a clear picture of what Rome REALLY teaches regarding works and merit for salvation, along with Christ's insufficient sacrifice for sin, nothing ever will.
http://www.followthissite.com/list-of-sins.php
Dear Dan,
REBe it Ecumenism or Syncretism, I see both as a mixture that should not occur in Christ's church.
Kindly quit pretending that you are sincerely looking for information as a pretext
for proselytizing and engaging in religious polemics.
Divisions originating with the Reformation should also not occur in Christ's church, but they do and there is plenty of blame to go around
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but ecumenism by its very definition is not the same thing as syncretism regardless of how you personally happen to define it. The long-established definitions are what they are. To attempt to conflate ecumenism with syncretism is just not only just plain wrong, but also revisionist.
RE:I have worked in a mission in Haiti, and yes it is not the natives but the imported slaves and yes syncretism is tolerated there.
When did you work as a missionary? During the 2010 earthquake?
Syncretism of other religions with Catholicism, such as Voudun or Santería, is condemned by the Roman Catholic Church.
There are groups calling themselves "Catholic" in Haiti, but they are not in communion with Rome.
Historically,the revolutionary Jean-Jacques Dessalines presumptively proclaimed himself head of the church in Haiti after the Haitian Revolution. Dessalines was a leader of the Haitian Revolution and the first ruler of an independent Haiti under the 1801 constitution. Initially regarded as governor-general, Dessalines later named himself Emperor Jacques I of Haiti (1804–1806). He is regarded as a founding father of Haiti.
As "emperor" and "head of the church in Haiti," he set out to limit the jurisdiction of priests and to appoint men to vacant positions in local church communities. He himself had caused the assassination of a large number of the missionaries by his failure to stop the slaughter of the white colonists. This caused a schism between the Haitian state and Rome, resulting in Rome's declining to send priests into the country. There were no priests to provide guidelines for the newly established Haitian state. As a consequence, the principles of Vodou and Catholicism were merged and a Vodou-ized Catholicism was made the state's official religion under the leadership of Henri Christophe (a.k.a. Henry Christopher) who assumed power after Dessalines was assassinated.
Another cause of the syncretic connection between Catholicism and Vodou was the state's ordination of Haitian men to the priesthood – a step that the Vatican would not recognize as legitimate. Thus, the free mixing of both religions without benefit of legitimate Catholic clergy to put a stop to it shaped the way of how Haitians practice their ritual. The Haitians were going to church, but they continued to adhere to Vodou, using the rituals of the church to mask the practices of their native traditions.
cont.
cont.
In 1835, Vodou ceased to be recognised as an official religion by the Haitian state and the practising of Vodou was made punishable. Secret Vodou societies, therefore, continued to proliferate. Moreover, hese societies were seen by the people as serving to provide the poor with protection and solidarity against the exercising of power by the elite. They had their own symbols and codes.
Today, Vodou is practiced not only by Haitians but by Americans and people of many other nations who have been exposed to Haitian culture. Haitian creole forms of Vodou exist in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, eastern Cuba, some of the outer islands of the Bahamas, the United States, and anywhere that Haitians have emigrated to. There has been a re-emergence of the Vodun traditions in the United States, maintaining the same ritual and cosmological elements as in West Africa. These and other African-diasporic religions, such as Lukumi or Regla de Ocha (also known as Santería) in Cuba, and Candomblé and Umbanda in Brazil, have evolved among descendants of transplanted Africans in the Americas.
Former president of Haiti François Duvalier (also known as Papa Doc) played a role in elevating the status of Vodou into a national doctrine. Duvalier was involved in the noirisme movement and hoped to re-value cultural practices that had their origins in Africa. Duvalier manipulated Vodou to suit his purposes throughout his Reign of Terror. He organized the Vodou priests in the countryside and had them advance his agenda, instilling fear through promoting the belief that he had supernatural powers playing into the religion's mysticism.
Many Haitians involved in the practice of Vodou have been initiated as Houngans or Mambos. In January 2010, after the Haiti earthquake there was an outburst of solidarity prayers in Benin with the victims. Traditional ceremonies were organized to appease the spirits and seek the blessing of ancestors for the Haitians. Also a "purification ceremony" was planned for Haiti. During a 2010 cholera epidemic, many Vodou priests were lynched by mobs, as they were believed to be spreading the disease.
Because of the religious syncretism between Catholicism and Vodou, it is difficult to estimate the number of Vodouists in Haiti. The CIA currently estimates that approximately 50% of Haiti's population practices Vodou, with nearly all Vodouists participating in one of Haiti's Christian denominations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou
cont.
The reason why I asked if you were a missionary at the time of the 2010 earthquake in Haiti is because it also seems that part of the missionary evangelization strategy in Haiti also involved distributing food ONLY to Christian believers after the earthquake.....deliberately preventing much needed help from reaching followers of Voudon - just because they were followers of Voudon. I hope all of that food the Christian "missionaries" were distributing only to "Christians" was paid for exclusively by their own churches!!! What was the "evangelistic strategy" there? Convert or starve? And these "missionaries" are supposed to be "ambassadors for Christ???"
As the saying goes...."You can't successfully preach the Good News if you are the bad news."
In closing I will say that there are probably many good missionaries in Haiti who would be utterly horrified and outraged at the aforementioned behavior done in the name of Christ.
But if you don't like the idea of all Protestant missionaries being tarred with the same brush, then kindly refrain from doing the same to Catholics.
RayB, how do you explain John the Apostle's student Ignatius teaching real presence of Christ's Body and Blood in the Eucharist? you are going by traditions of men that don't go back to the early church but pretend to do so. Even Luther acknowledged the real presence. Even as a prot I had figured it out.
Susanna and Dan, of course the RC condemns syncretism. the problem is what the local priests, who may themselves have gone compromised through seminary put up with. What the prots were DOING in Haiti has no bearing on what they HEARD ABOUT in Haiti.
Dan, on the eternality of the Word check my blog where we discussed this, new comment Hebrews comparison of Jesus to Melchizedec and making the point of without beginning as well as without end.
Susanna said... 1:26 PM
Dear Susanna,
You Wrote: Kindly quit pretending that you are sincerely looking for information as a pretext
for proselytizing and engaging in religious polemics.
I do not proselytize as I do not have a religion for one to join, and exposing error in the church is not polemics.
Do you disagree with the paper discussing the Syncretism occurring in South America?
If you do not believe it to be syncretism then how would you characterize it?
I think your characterization and conclusion of the Haitian controversy is complete.
Here is the mission I work with in Haiti, you can decide for yourself if they are good news or bad news bears!
http://www.newmissions.org/
It was at the epicenter of that earthquake and suffered extreme damage but miraculously no loss of life.
You Wrote: But if you don't like the idea of all Protestant missionaries being tarred with the same brush, then kindly refrain from doing the same to Catholics.
If and when you see Protestant missionaries misbehaving, I will be the first join you and provide the tar, along with feathers!
Tar and feathering someone: wasn't that a form of torture the RC establishment carried out during the Spanish Inquisition, etc?
Deepak Chopra wonders:
Will Pope Francis Become a Holy Man for the World?
Constance's 'Deep Pit Cobra' seems to think Francis might be the one.
www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/will-pope-francis-become_b_8911402.html
www.freerepublic.com/focus/Religion/3380867/posts
Can't deny what this is about, nor defend it.
Some will try and cry there is (yet another) misunderstanding.
What has seemed like "jello", is now firmly nailed to the wall in this official video.
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/01/07/pope_francis_asks_for_prayers_for_interreligious_dialogue__/1199403
Dear Dan,
Re:Do you disagree with the paper discussing the Syncretism occurring in South America?
If you do not believe it to be syncretism then how would you characterize it?
I do not disagree that there is Syncretism occurring in South America - with the causes being similar to the causes of Syncretism in Haiti. What I do not accept is any suggestion that just because some clergymen may be guilty of a dereliction of duty with regard to tolerating syncretism (providing, of course, that they are aware of its existence in their particular parish) that the Catholic church officially approves of it. The fact is that Catholic Church condemns syncretism.
In the "Tar and Feather Dept." the Spanish conquistadors were not necessarily paragons of virtue (i.e. Pizarro) even though they went by the name of "Catholic." But they need to be distinguished from the devout Catholic missionaries who belonged to religious orders and who devoted their lives to preaching the Gospels.
Another thing is that the Spanish Inquisition of their "most Catholic Majesties" (sarcasm intended) Ferdinand and Isabella had more or less become a law unto itself and the Vatican was not able to completely control it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
The Roman Inquisition, on the other hand, was what is now known as the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and is the body responsible for promulgating and defending Catholic doctrine.
I agree with the author's belief that syncretism was likely the result of forced conversions.......just as the pogroms and forced conversions of the Jewish people in Spain resulted in the phenomenon known as "Crypto-Judaism."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-Judaism
In modern times, in Brazil, the second largest religion is Kardecian Spiritism
RE:If and when you see Protestant missionaries misbehaving, I will be the first join you and provide the tar, along with feathers!
Ditto for Catholic missionaries behaving badly. People who know me know that I have no hesitation about lowering the boom on "Catholic" miscreants and apostates.
I am especially referring to the "missionaries" who have embraced the Marxist version of Liberation Theology which has as little to do with liberation as it has to do with theology.
Susanna states @ 8:17 PM ...
"Another thing is that the Spanish Inquisition of their "most Catholic Majesties" (sarcasm intended) Ferdinand and Isabella had more or less become a law unto itself and the Vatican was not able to completely control it."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
It is quite amazing how much spin takes place on this forum. Now it is "Ferdinand and Isabella" that was the evil, guiding hands behind the Spanish Inquisition, and not (of course!) the Vatican (or the Jesuits). I guess "Ferdinand & Isabella" were also the ones behind the European Inquisition that raged on for 620 years.
Also, AGAIN ... no serious researcher EVER relies (or quotes for that matter) on Wikipedia as a "source." It is really pretty comical how often wiki is quoted to "support" pro-Catholic positions. But then again, where else can they turn, other than their Catholic Encyclopedia (which of course is not biased at all). LOL!
RayB
" I guess "Ferdinand & Isabella" were also the ones behind the European Inquisition that raged on for 620 years."
Susanna already said they weren't. But of course you ignore tens of thousands of RC and rival protestants killed and tortured by protestants, I posted a link about that on some previous thread. And the Inquisition didn't have as much body count etc. as the Brits claimed.
So, if the "body count" wasn't as high as the Brits claimed, then the Catholics are real sweethearts?
no. what makes you think in any conflict one side is all good and the other all bad?
that is almost never the case. But the prots weren't so great either. Calvinists were killing Anabaptists also for a while before they decided infant baptism was not okay. Most of the European wars of religion had major greed and whatnot issues running them also. Everyone was bad. which proves the failure of Catholicism AND of Protestantism to make people good.
I don't see sources for your comment to back up what you said.
Also, you know how to make people good 9:52 PM ?
Do tell.....(remember to have sources for us)
http://arthurandteresabeem.blogspot.com/2013/04/catholics-killed-by-protestants.html
Do you have an answer and source for the question how to make people good 9:52 PM?
Christine,
Constance is correct, and you are being disingenuous in acting as if you are not advocating chakras here as you have always done so in the past. However, your attempt at blindsiding the issue is pathetically transparent.
You are promoting gnostcism when you imply occult knowledge is needed to unlock the chakra meaning you insinuate is alluded to in Ecclesiastes 12:6, where you state:
"it [Ecclesiastes 12:6] does not refer to them [chakras ] as long as it is in this context, rather IT IS UNINTELLIGIBLE IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT INFORMATION CONTEXT TO READ IT IN. This is evident from the many and conflicting efforts to interpret it, ending in puzzlement and confusion... information context is not extrabiblical in the sense of unbiblical. A person who never saw a sheep, didn't know they existed, didn't know what shepherds do and what sheep act like and predators, etc. " (I refuse to copy the next part as I find your connection here both insulting to God and blasphemous because of the link you make here to the Lamb of God!)
Why won't you be dissuaded by such Hindu nonsense! Yes, chakra means wheel in Sanskit (the language of the Hindu texts) but not in Aramaic nor Hebrew, nor is there ANY allusion to such meaning in Ecclesiastes 12:6 (connotations and denotations, etc) as is meant by chakras.
Anonymous9:42 AM
"Christine, was it in the Septuagint you allegedly found your reference to chakras?"
Reply
Christine Erikson (aka Justina)9:52 AM
"no. KJV Ecclesiastes 12:6 makes no sense outside of the context of the subtle body and its interface to the physical body."
Reply
Anonymous10:17 AM
"Christine, so if I understand rightly, you assert that Ecclesiastes 12:6 refers to the chakras as long as it is within:"the context of the subtle body and its interface to the physical body"?"
"Could you please explain exactly what you mean by the subtle body, how it is constructed in your opinion and then how it interfaces with the physical body?"
"Given such necessary contextual conditions as you have stated, specifically, how does Ecclesiastes 12:6 refer to chakras?"
"And finally, given all that, would you therefore say that the version of Ecclesiastes 12:6 of the Septuagint is rather more reliable in its reference to chakras than the Masora."
Qualify, i.e., legitimately and logically back up your claims HERE made at 9:52 AM and answer the subsequent points put to you, seeing as you made such claims HERE or do the decent thing, swallow your pride and admit you were wrong about chakras. They are a doctrine of devils, as Constance rightly pointed out, why do you want to hang on to such false teaching? You dare not even attempt to back up your claims so relinquish them!
Here's the link to an article about Gnosticism, titled:
The Gnostic Revolt Against the God of Judaism
http://new-age-spirituality.com/religion/gnostic.html
Here's a few excerpts from the article.
They teach the insidious doctrine that there is another God besides the Creator.—Irenaeus, Against Heresies
For many heretics have said that the God Of the Old Testament is one, and the God of the New Testament is another.
—Ambrose, On the Holy Spirit, I, 4
"Most Christians probably assume that the God of the Hebrews in the days of Abraham was the same as the God of Moses and, furthermore, that this God was also equivalent to the Father mentioned by Jesus with such love and devotion. Any such assumptions are false,..."
"While some Old Testament passages describe Yahweh as merciful, loyal, forgiving, and benevolent, he is at least as often portrayed as jealous, grouchy, wrathful, irritable, proud, boastful, unforgiving, temperamental, cruel, vengeful, and even bloodthirsty, prepared to sanction cold-blooded murder or mass slaughter, including the annihilation of entire cities. Given the numerous examples of God-sanctioned mayhem in scripture, it is no wonder that discriminating readers have sometimes doubted whether this same Yahweh can inspire our confidence and trust, to say nothing of love, devotion, respect and emulation....the example set by Yahweh in the Old Testament falls short of inspirational (to say the least)."
"Behind Yahweh, unseen by him, stood Wisdom (the Divine Mother, Sophia), now recognized as the true boss. Yahweh was simply the hired man. Above Wisdom, indeed, over all, presided the incomprehensible Father about whom Jesus had spoken in such loving terms. It is interesting to note that although Wisdom was often ranked below the Father, their relationship was intimate: Wisdom was an integral part of the Godhead."
nonsense.
and while you complain of what you consider injustice or unrighteousness on the part of God, why do you not practice justice and look at what provoked the behavior you complain of?
and if your standards don't match entirely those applied by God reconsider that you might be wrong, that we are all warped by the Fall to some extent you in your way
and others in other ways. God is jealous? why not? it is slack love more like indiffence that isn't. God YHWH is the creator of all including wisdom.
Jesus came back physically and permanently to life. Heed Him.
Christine,
You are in denial of one of the greatest Holocausts in history: that of Rome persecuting the true Church through the Ages!
Christine, Constance is correct, and you are being disingenuous in acting as if you are not advocating chakras here as you have always done so in the past. However, your attempt at blindsiding the issue is pathetically transparent.
You are promoting Gnostcism when you imply occult knowledge is needed to unlock the chakra meaning you insinuate is alluded to in Ecclesiastes 12:6, where you state:
"it [Ecclesiastes 12:6] does not refer to them [chakras ] as long as it is in this context, rather IT IS UNINTELLIGIBLE IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT INFORMATION CONTEXT TO READ IT IN. This is evident from the many and conflicting efforts to interpret it, ending in puzzlement and confusion... information context is not extrabiblical in the sense of unbiblical. A person who never saw a sheep, didn't know they existed, didn't know what shepherds do and what sheep act like and predators, etc. " (I refuse to copy the next part as I find your connection here both insulting to God and blasphemous because of the link you make here to the Lamb of God!)
Why won't you be dissuaded by such Hindu nonsense! Yes, chakra means wheel in Sanskit (the language of the Hindu texts) but not in Aramaic nor Hebrew, nor is there ANY allusion to such meaning in Ecclesiastes 12:6 (connotations and denotations, etc) as is meant by chakras.
You made the claims at 9:52 AM HERE, so, if you can (which I sincerely doubt), qualify, i.e., legitimately and logically back up your claims regarding chakras HERE, made at 9:52 AM, and answer the subsequent points put to you at 10:17 AM, seeing as you made such claims HERE or do the decent thing, swallow your pride and admit you were wrong about chakras. They are a doctrine of devils, as Constance rightly pointed out, why do you want to hang on to such false teaching? You dare not even attempt to back up your claims so relinquish them!
She can't qualify her points (she doesn't even understand what 'qualify' means in this context: Lol!) and she won't relinquish them so let Christine forever be known as the New Age Gnostic Know -it-all know-little coward that she is!
Anonymous said...
"Christine, Constance is correct, and you are being disingenuous in acting as if you are not advocating chakras here as you have always done so in the past. "
as usual it came up because someone nagged me about it or falsely accused me of preaching hinduism or Gnosticism. What I have said before is the same now, I don't pretend anything, I have always said, they are a reality which should be left alone and which are exploited by NEw Age. like they exploit everything else.
you are the one being disingenuous in pretending I ever said otherwise. I have posted a link several times to an article that shows how the new age would warp your energy system or outer layer of soul whatever. "your chakras target of new age deception."
I have said before that the fact they don't have location right on at least one major one can be used to argue against their credibility.
"You are promoting Gnostcism when you imply occult knowledge is needed to unlock the chakra meaning you insinuate is alluded to in Ecclesiastes 12:6,"
I don't imply anything. I have repeatedly stated that unlocking them is a bad idea.
any notion that God is to be reached by altered states of consciousness is false. any notion that God is the permeating ether supporting the universe as substratum is false, the ether is just another creature not the Creator.
you are a false accuser. you have no excuse because all this has been hashed over. meanwhile the Christine bashing posts are generally twice as many as mine on several threads.
I am not wrong. Eccles. 12:6 makes no sense as poetry or anything else, when you don't know about this stuff, but perfect sense when you do.
They are not a doctrine of anything, you could argue that the existence of the soul as separatable from the body is a doctrine of devils because it is used to argue for reincarnation.
I have backed up my claims repeatedly. you are a liar.
It doesn't matter that the WORD chakra is not in Hebrew. THE CONCEPT OF A WHEEL IN THE BODY IS IN THE HEBREW.
It doesn't matter if call a horse a horse or a caballo or an equus, that is what is being discussed. you don't tell me that something discussing equus doesn't prove
there are no equines in some English book on horse racing because equus isn't
mentioned. what equus refers to IS mentioned. Same deal here.
anon 10:36
I am not in denial about anything. and the Church is at core trunk level, NOT YOU. nor Rome. It is the Orthodox. Rome is a semi broken segment. you are semi heretics retrieved by focus on Jesus.
as for holocausts, most of the victims you refer to "throughout history" would have won your denunciation and execration if you met them in person and heard their blasphemous heresies and in some cases their personal practices.
and as I said protestants are as guilty of torture and murder as "Catholics." it was just the way things were done by everyone. The first to use violence however
were the arian heretics against the Orthodox when they gained control of the imperial power now and then.
Christine, chakras are a doctrine of devils!
"I have backed up my claims repeatedly"
Where have you repeatedly backed up your claims made at 9:52 AM? You have not! You are the liar, Christine!
You have qualified none of your points nor answered the subsequent points put to you at 10:17 AM.
You are a coward and not a clever one.
There is no reference to chakras in Ecclesiastes 12:6
Anon 11:36 AM:
Christine knows chakras exist from personal experience. Her chakras were out of sorts during an airplane trip. When the plane took off she screamed in pain. This is hard for this blog to swallow. But imagine how hard it was for Christine to swallow when her throat chakra swelled up as big as a softball.
you are the liar. I have sown that the concept of wheel in the body that
undergoes collapse or breaking at death is the same concept of wheel in
the slop job effort at soul anatomy from the far east.
I do not need to qualify anything, because that term means to admit ambiguity
or possible error and there is no need to do so.
Eccles. 12:6 describes death process and says a WHEEL is broken. this is some part
of the soul body separation at death, THAT IS THE CONCEPT.
http://biblehub.com/parallel/ecclesiastes/12-6.htm Strong's http://biblehub.com/hebrew/1534.htm galgal, a wheel, whirl, whirlwind, whirling.
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?tinput=cakrI&direction=SE&script=HK&link=yes&beginning= cakri wheel
using translator English to Sanskrit, http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?tinput=cakra&direction=SE&script=HK&link=yes&beginning=0 you get several definitions including wheel most of which involve some kind of circular motion or implications
so you want me to QUALIFY?
I suppose your slipshod mentality would prefer I say "no chakra in Ecclesiates,
just GALGAL?"
chakra or galgal, we'd still be talking about the same thing. you are wrong.
and if you want to argue with a new ager about the few realities he or she thinks support the massive unreality he or she is into, it will do you no good to sa
"galgal."
The wheel spoken of Ecclesiastes 12:6 has NOTHING to do with chakras, Christine! You have answered NONE of the points made at 10:17, in response to your outlandish New Age Gnostic claims at 9:52 AM.
You now say you don't have to qualify anything, yet you just said you had backed up your claims. You are contradicting yourself and speaking with a forked tongue in trying to wriggle out of your lies. You made the claims at 9:52 AM, you qualify them! Or forever be known as the cowardly New Age disingenuous viper you are!
There is NO allusion to chakras in Ecclesiastes 12:6 whatsoever! It is purely and simply talking about the failing of the human body, which is physical, and death. You should repent of your Gnostic Hindu nonsense Christine, before you too find yourself broken at the wheel and then before the Judgment Throne of Almighty God!
There is no alternative, you and the Resident witch won't be getting sent to one of your imaginary Martian colonies for you Christine, however much you (and many of us here) might wish it!
there is no 10:17 time stamp on this thread.
Eccles. 12:6 says a whirling wheel like thing goes into total failure during death.
you can call it chakra (wheel in sanskrit) or galgal (wheel in hebrew) it is what it is whatever it is.
Christine's chakras weren't out of sorts on an airplane. This is what she said.
Something goes on you do not know about. Because I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, when I screamed in pain because of a sudden deep feed after only a light contact, the invisible tendril went into the throat energy center and the agony was like repressurization coming down in an airplane, only the position was not entirely the same, this was on the ground, and there are other things."
No I did not say my chakras were out of sorts due to air travel. I said that the pain from recompression is in the jaw to ear zone, and the intense pain I got from a sudden deep psychic vampire feed on the throat chakra was near there, but a tad lower.
That also this high on the neck position for the throat chakra is NOT WHAT ALMOST ANY CHART SHOWS, so the NAM has a lot of stuff wrong.
now do you get it? And if the NAM has this simple stuff wrong, what else do they have wrong?
A different experiment like an attack of a different sort was explicitly keyed to the throat chakra, but again the location affected was high on the neck at the base of the head, NOT the front of the throat or middle of neck as traditionally shown.
# posted by Christine Erikson (aka Justina) : 12:21 AM
RayB said at 9:00 PM "Also, AGAIN ... no serious researcher EVER relies (or quotes for that matter) on Wikipedia as a "source."
Unlike RayB, Susanna doesn't dishonestly post fake news from fake news sites with no link to the site.
See 11:31 PM at the 2nd (201-400) page of this thread......and Susanna's reply at 12:09 AM and 12:36 AM
Apparently, RayB thinks that if he continues with his mindless ranting and raving no one will notice.
So let me see now....... WHO has the credibility problem??????????
Christine, there is a 10:17 AM post on page 2 of this thread. Either you are lying once more or you are showing even greater signs of senile delusion: perhaps both are indicative of a seered conscience on your part! You should take serious heed to the warning given in Ecclesiastes 12.
Here are the posts.
Christine Erikson (aka Justina) 9:52 AM
"anon 9:42"
"no. KJV Ecclesiastes 12:6 makes no sense outside of the context of the subtle body and its interface to the physical body."
Reply
Anonymous10:17 AM
"Christine, so if I understand rightly, you assert that Ecclesiastes 12:6 refers to the chakras as long as it is within:"the context of the subtle body and its interface to the physical body"?"
"Could you please explain exactly what you mean by the subtle body, how it is constructed in your opinion and then how it interfaces with the physical body?"
"Given such necessary contextual conditions as you have stated, specifically, how does Ecclesiastes 12:6 refer to chakras?"
"And finally, given all that, would you therefore say that the version of Ecclesiastes 12:6 of the Septuagint is rather more reliable in its reference to chakras than the Masora is?"
Now, Christine Erikson, either qualify your claims made in your 9:52 AM post and directly and sincerely respond to the subsequent points made to you at 10:17AM regarding your chakra claims, or retract your claims and admit and repent of your Gnostic heresy!
Oh, I see now:
"No I did not say my chakras were out of sorts due to air travel. I said that the pain from recompression is in the jaw to ear zone, and the intense pain I got from a sudden deep psychic vampire feed on the throat chakra was near there, but a tad lower."
_It was a sudden deep psychic vampire feed.
And you guys thought she was superstitious.
It was a sudden DEEP Psychic Vampire Feed, fools.
Case closed.
Now, now, Anonymous 1:48 PM, isn't Christine just saying she's a little more gnostic and 'in the occult know (with the Resident Seer's help?)' when it comes to chakras than your average New Ager?
I have already done the explaining. I will do so again.
""Christine, so if I understand rightly, you assert that Ecclesiastes 12:6 refers to the chakras as long as it is within:"the context of the subtle body and its interface to the physical body"?"
no, not as long as it is within the context. it makes no sense without the knowledge context of this. I said this already. several times. as usual you lie when you say I didn't answer.
"Could you please explain exactly what you mean by the subtle body, how it is constructed in your opinion and then how it interfaces with the physical body?"
Its called the soul, as I said before, which interfaces to the physical body and is how the physical lives. It is what you experience yourself as having or being in if you bilocate. It is what Lazarus and the rich man were in when in Abraham's bosom and hell respectively in Jesus' sermon.
"Given such necessary contextual conditions as you have stated, specifically, how does Ecclesiastes 12:6 refer to chakras?"
Hebrew galgal, wheel, whirl, whirling, whirlwind. Sanskrit chakra, wheel or whirling or round.
in context of the body, both these words are describing the same thing, a wheel like rotating thing in the body which breaks down at death.
"And finally, given all that, would you therefore say that the version of Ecclesiastes 12:6 of the Septuagint is rather more reliable in its reference to chakras than the Masora is?"{"
no. though the description of the wheel folding in on itself rather than breaking is just as indicative.
the gnostic underpinnings or presuppositions of the protestant (denigration of the physical and thinking the non physical is superior to the point of no relation to the physical so that soul and body are viewed as totally distinct) make you unable to deal with this except to dismiss it as "new age."
Genesis 2:7 "...and [God] breathed into [the man's] nostrils the breath of life; and man BECAME A LIVING SOUL."
we don't have souls. we ARE souls. nephesh includes body and immortal part, or sometimes relates only to the immortal part. the people who came with Jacob into Egypt are called "souls." we would say "everybody" instead.
until recently and only thanks to carving up dead bodies (which used to be considered sacrilege of a sort) we knew nothing about the inner workings of the body. At least two episodes in the Bible detail someone who could see beyond normal range of sight. one the source is unknown. the other received this opening of his eyes from God at the prayer of a prophet. And maybe most with this are descended from him if this involved tweaking an hoxsey gene controlling expression. Cats and dogs see farther and have been observed watching things move around we can't see, and sometimes showing hostility to them. it isn't just a bug.
Since I am a Bible believer, I must believe that there is a non physical reality about the body and that sometimes some people can see a bit of this and it gets reported. reports from pagan sources and from Eccles. agree there is a whirling wheel like thing in the body that breaks down at death. this does not match anything known from anatomy and autopsies. therefore it is real and part of the soul.
Constance is going to be very mad at me. I hope she blames you lot for your role in it, I am going silent for a week now. pounce, er, post again next Sunday after 11:51 am my time.
"...a sudden deep psychic vampire feed on the throat chakra was near there, but a tad lower."
Perhaps it was the Resident Seer?
From those posts of hers from some time back, MCE is deeply occultic and gnostic by her own admissions, then.
No wonder nearly every single thing that she posts about the Bible is detestable, reeking of self-righteousness and unforgiveness.
I hope she gets biblical counsel.
She needs much prayer.
Constance,
Perhaps you could tell Christine - and take corresponding action - that any post of hers here mentioning chakras or intelligent life on Mars will be deleted, and that her own blog is the place for her to discuss such matters?
Christine, the explanation of the wheel is purely to do with the physical body and the death thereof. It has NOTHING to do with to chakras as the Commentary ' on Ecclesiastes 12 over at biblehub.com shows:
"We should remember our sins against our Creator, repent, and seek forgiveness. We should remember our duties, and set about them, looking to him for grace and strength. This should be done early, while the body is strong, and the spirits active. When a man has the pain of reviewing a misspent life, his not having given up sin and worldly vanities till he is forced to say, I have no pleasure in them, renders his sincerity very questionable. Then follows a figurative description of old age and its infirmities, which has some difficulties; but the meaning is plain, to show how uncomfortable, generally, the days of old age are. As the four verses, 2-5, are a figurative description of the infirmities that usually accompany old age, ver. 6 notices the circumstances which take place in the hour of death. If sin had not entered into the world, these infirmities would not have been known. Surely then the aged should reflect on the evil of sin."
"Pulpit Commentary"
"Verse 6. - Or ever; i.e. before, ere (ad asher lo). The words recall us to vers. 1 and 2, bidding the youth make the best use of his time ere old age cuts him off. In the present paragraph the final dissolution is described under two figures. The silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken. This is evidently one figure, which would be made plainer by reading "and" instead of "or," the idea being that the lamp is shattered by the snapping of the cord that suspended it from the roof. But there are some difficulties in the closer explanation of the allegory. The "bowl" (gullah) is the reservoir of oil in a lamp (see Zechariah 4:3, 4), which supplies nourishment to the flame; when this is broken or damaged so as to be useless, the light, of course, is extinguished. The Septuagint calls it τὸ ἀνθέμιον τοῦ χρυσίον: the Vulgate, vitta aurea, "the golden fillet," or flower ornament on a column, which quite sinks the notion of a light being quenched. The "cord" is that by which the lamp is hung in a tent or a room. But of what in man are these symbols? Many fanciful interpretations have been given. The "silver cord" is the spine, the nerves generally, the tongue; the "golden bowl" is the head, the membrane of the brain, the stomach."
Continued from 6:57 PM: "But these anatomical details are not to be adopted; they have little to recommend them, and are incongruous with the rest of the parable. The general break-up of life is here delineated, not the progress of destruction in certain organs or parts of the human frame. The cord is what we should call the thread of life, on which hangs the body lit by the animating soul; when the connection between these is severed, the latter perishes, like a fallen lamp lying crushed on the ground. In this our view the cord is the living power which keeps the corporeal substance from failing to ruin; the bowl is the body itself thus upheld. The mention of gold and silver is introduced to denote the preciousness of man's life and nature. But the analogy must not be pressed in all possible details. It is like the parables, where, if defined and examined too closely, incongruities appear. We should be inclined to make more of the lamp and the light and the oil, which are barely inferred in the passage, and endeavor to explain what these images import. Koheleth is satisfied with the general figure which adumbrates the dissolution of the material fabric by the withdrawal of the principle of life. What is the immediate cause of this dissolution, injury, paralysis, etc., is not handled; only the rupture is noticed and its fatal result. Another image to the same effect, though pointing to a different process, is added Or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or (and) the wheel broken at (in) the cistern. The picture here is a deep well or cistern with an apparatus for drawing water; this apparatus consists of a wheel or windlass with a rope upon it, to which is attached a bucket; the wheel fails, falls into the well, the bucket is dashed to pieces, and no water can be drawn. It is best to regard the two clauses as intended to convey one idea, as the two at the beginning of the verse were found to do. Some commentators, not so suitably, distinguish between the two, making the former clause say that the pitcher is broken on its road to or from the spring, and the latter that the draw-wheel gives way. The imagery, points to one notion which would be weakened by being divided into two. The motion of the bucket, the winding up and down, by which water is drawn from the well, is an emblem of the movements of the heart, the organs of respiration, etc. When these cease to act, life is extinct. The fraction of the cord and the demolition of the bowl denoted the separation of soul and body; the breaking of the pitcher and the destruction of the wheel signify the overthrow of the bodily organs by which vital motion is diffused and maintained, and the man lives. The expressions in the text remind one of the term, "earthen vessel," applied by St. Paul (2 Corinthians 4:7) to the human body; and "the fountain of life," "the water of life." so often mentioned in Holy Scripture as typical of the grace of God and the blessedness of life with him (see Psalm 36:9; Proverbs 13:14; John 4:10, 14; Revelation 21:6). "
Christine, stop leaving yourself open to demonic attack (your so called "sudden deep psychic vampire feed"?) by now repenting of and rejecting your claims that the wheel in Ecclesiastes 12:6 refers to the chakra, and acknowledge that chakras are a doctrine of devils!
MCE's living with and approving of someone practising clairvoyancy (aka the resident seer) is deeply concerning.
Christine,
1 Corinthians 10:21
“Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.”
I think we may be entering a global economic crisis. Larry Summers wrote today in the FT that China's fall will be great as they have had a tremendous amount of over investment and debt.
Anonymous @9:08 ...
The global economy never recovered from the crisis that began in 2008. The global central bankers continued QE policies at never before seen levels, now what's left are massive, artificial asset bubbles world wide. While the corporate main stream media continued to propagandize the masses with trumped-up, manufactured, "good" economic news in order to create confidence among consumers, it simply did not work (due primarily, IMO, to the internet). Now, the world is even worse off than it was in 2008, because global debt has increased dramatically and now sits at historic levels, and with interest rates held at near zero for over 6 years. Typically, in the past, the Fed needed between 300 to 350 basis points to jump start (in theory) an economy out of a recession. With the recent 25 basis point rise from zero, the Fed has virtually nothing to play with. This is true for the rest of the world's central bankers which followed the Fed's lead regarding QE.
Britain is just one example, but serves as an illustration for what the global economy is about experience. Britain's housing market experienced high inflation, all based on easy money policies of their central bank, along with Government programs in order to encourage home ownership. The value of Britain real estate is about to change, and change dramatically. See: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/house-prices/12087971/UK-house-price-crash-looms-as-global-asset-prices-unravel.html
Here in our own country, Obama bragged recently about how his policies helped save the American auto industry, and that sales for this past year hit an all-time high. What he failed to mention was the fact that over 60% of car financing this past year was due to SUB-PRIME loans! The "too big to fail" banks are at it again ... knowing full well the taxpayers will be there for them when these loans become toxic.
I could say much more ... but will stop here. I firmly believe things are going to get VERY ugly. It will be a time that will try all men's souls.
RayB and the ultra-secularist left have a lot in common when it comes to their views about the Catholic Church.
'pope' Francis on Interreligious Dialogue: "We are all children of God".
This video is a 'must-see'. Kiss a Koran or take the mark of Shiva anyone? Why not settle for Buddha?
Of course, I expect the convolutions of gaslighting in jesuitical fashion to commence but the video is what it is!
https://youtu.be/Nq7us5Lf5IU
Anonymous @ 7:10 AM ...
Amazing video ... and put out by the Catholics! If this doesn't prove this man and his religious system denies the One and Only "WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE" I don't know what ever will. Of course, the vast majority of this world is "blinded by the god of this world" and Satan "takes them captive at his will." The only way to block that power is through God's redeeming power through the Lord Jesus Christ, born of His Spirit, washed in His blood and continually cleansed through the washing of His Word! ALL who are truly redeemed KNOW this to be true.
WATCH THIS VIDEO ... it is in the spirit of the Anti-Christ and his One World Religion:
https://youtu.be/Nq7us5Lf5IU
Thank you Ray. (7:10 here) I will watch your link later.
God bless and protect you.
The RCC isn't the only religious entity that pays only "lip service" to the Lord Jesus Christ ... watch BILLY GRAHAM deny Jesus Christ as the only "WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE." As you watch this ... keep in mind the verse "there is NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN BY WHICH MEN MUST BE SAVED" and Jesus proclaimed "Except a man be born again, he CANNOT see the Kingdom of Heaven."
The spirit of the Anti-Christ's One World Religion is the SPIRIT of this age.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrf60-zHl9A
The Protestant movement was influenced by Islam in many ways. Many of the Protestant criticisms towards Catholicism was similar to, and most likely influenced by, those of Islam.
Martin Luther wrote a preface to a Latin translation of the Qur'an in 1542 and persuaded the authorities to lift the ban on its publication which allowed for its printing in Basle by Theodore Bibliander in 1543. In spite of Luther's influence, not even he would have been able to defend the publication of an uncommented edition of the Qur'an.
"Printing was carried out speedily and under pressure, without the knowledge of the authorities, but news got out before work was completed. The edition was seized and the printer arrested. After lengthy negotiations involving reformers (Luther and Melanchthon included) and authorities in Zurich and Strasbourg, the city council of Basel released the work on condition that neither Basel nor Oporinus were mentioned on the title page, and that the edition should be sold from Wittenberg and provided with a preface by Luther" (Detlev Auvermann, Guillaume Postel (1510-1581), London: Bernard Quaritch, Catalogue 1343 [2006] no. 9).
Luther’s view of Scripture as the only guide to faith and practice is similar to the Islamic view of the Qur'an.
Protestant doctrines related to scriptural fundamentalism, anti-sacramentalism, radical individualism, state theocracy, marriage and the position of women bear striking parallels with earlier Islamic teachings, suggesting an Islamic influence on the Protestant movement.
There is even a tapestry depicting John Sigismund of Hungary, bowing down and pledging allegiance to Suleiman the Magnificent.
http://asianhistory.about.com/od/turkeyhistoryculture/fl/Suleiman-the-Magnificent.htm
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WASHINGTON – Two-thirds (67 percent) of all converts to Islam in the United States came from a Protestant background, according to the first nationwide survey to measure the demographics, attitudes, and experiences of Muslim Americans....
http://www.christianpost.com/news/poll-2-of-3-u-s-muslim-converts-left-christian-roots-27580/
“The Koran is a book of peace. It is a prophetic book of peace,” the pope said, United Press International reported.
Source: The Washington Times: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/1/pope-francis-koran-is-a-prophetic-book-of-peace
****************************************************
However, Paddy Agnew of the Irish Times, faithful to journalistic professionalism, cited the complete quote from Pope Francis, which shows that he did not say what the UPI claimed he said:
He began, however, by condemning anti-Islamic prejudice: “Faced with these (fundamentalist Islamic) terrorist acts . . . people react badly, saying if this is Islam, then I will get angry. That way, lots of Muslims feel offended and they have to point out, ‘but that is not us, the Koran is a prophetic book of peace, this (terrorism) has nothing to do with Islam’.
(Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/pope-condemns-anti-islam-sentiments-1.2021247)
It seems, that just as the press misquoted Pope Benedict XVI in his talk at Ratisbon, to damage his relations with the Islamic world, so they have misquoted Pope Francis to damage his relations with the Catholic world. A stunning depravity.
https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2014/12/04/upi-pope-calls-the-koran-a-prophetic-book-of-peace/
When Prince Charles is crowned, he will be the Protestant head of the Church of England......a Protestant "pope."
********************************
Koran should be read at Prince Charles' coronation says top bishop: Critics attack proposal and accuse Church of England of 'losing confidence' in its own traditions
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2853638/Koran-read-Prince-Charles-coronation-says-bishop-Critics-attack-proposal-accuse-Church-England-losing-confidence-traditions.html
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Is Prince Charles a convert to Islam?
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2003/11/is-prince-charles-a-convert-to-islam
THE TRADITIONALIST PRINCE OF WALES
By Rod Dreher • February 3, 2012, 2:14 PM
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-traditionalist-prince-of-wales/
Messianic Muslims?
by Orell Steinkamp, The Plumbline, Vol. 6, No. 2, March/April 2001
Last year it was reported that several international mission organizations, including Youth With A Mission (YWAM) are testing a new approach to missionary work in areas where Christianity is unwelcome. A March 24 Charisma News Service report said some missionaries are now making converts but are allowing them to "hold on to many of their traditional religious beliefs and practices," so as to refrain from offending others within their culture. The Charisma article noted: "Messianic Muslims, who continue to read the Koran, visit the mosque and say their daily prayers but accept Christ as their Savior, are the products of the strategy which is being tried in several countries." A YWAM staff writer wrote: "They continue a life of following the Islamic requirements, including mosque attendance, fasting and Koranic reading, besides getting together as a fellowship of Muslims who acknowledge Christ as the source of God's mercy for them... YWAM is also adopting this approach in India, where a team is working with a Hindu holy man." (Foundation, May/June 2000, p. 39)
Mosque attendance and Koranic reading endorses Allah as the only true God and Mohammed as his true prophet. The Koran sees Jesus as only a prophet and not God's Son. Can one be a Messianic Christian and a Muslim believer at the same time?
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=11772087&postID=7640042007295371028&page=3&token=1452533959877&bpli=1
“messianic muslims”
January 14, 2010
It seems that some Christian Missionaries are now applying the same tactics to Muslims, as they do to Jews.
For years, certain Christian groups have fraudulently posed as “messianic jews”. It’s a cause of much distress to genuine Jews, understandably. Ignoring what Judaism itself says, these Messianic groups go round insisting that a Jew who becomes a Christian, is a ‘messianic jew’.
Obviously, it’s nonsense.
Now it seems that some Christian Evangelicals are trying the same trick with Muslims..........
https://ajewwithaview.wordpress.com/tag/messianic-muslims/
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Youth With A Mission (YWAM) is a global mission with international partnerships and was founded by Loren Cunningham in 1956, when he was a 20-year-old student in an Assemblies of God College. They are apparently partnered with the Southern Baptist Messianic Fellowship.
More on Messianic Muslims....
https://ajewwithaview.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/messianic-muslims-2/
So WHO is guilty of religious syncretism???????
Exactly....
And below is a link to a description of "Messianic Judaism's" deceptive tactics for comparison with those of the "Messianic Muslim" operation.
Mainstream Judaism says that accepting Jesus as the Messiah is tantamount to conversion to Christianity, whether that is done formally or not. At best say, Jewish leaders, one is an apostate Jew after accepting Jesus.
The issue has soured relations between the Southern Baptist Convention and the American Jewish community - which is probably why at least one fellowship of Messianic Jews decided to end its affiliation with the Southern Baptist Convention in 2001.
*************************************
Southern Baptists Rely on Deception in Effort to Convert Jews
Messianic Congregations Offer Reassuring Jewish Symbols
by JewsOnFirst.org, June 25, 2007
http://www.jewsonfirst.org/07c/baptist_messianic.html
The aforementioned Messianic Jews who tried to end their affiliation with the Southern Baptist Convention were challenged by members of their own group.
Withdrawal of Messianic Fellowship ruled (organizationally) unconstitutional by members
by Lee Weeks, posted Monday, June 18, 2001 (14 years ago)
http://www.bpnews.net/11137
_________________________________________________________________
Dear 12.22pm,
If you compare Prince Charles' recent comments on Islam with his older ones it is clear that he has changed his opinion and no longer believes it is a "religion of peace". I am aware of which evangelical Christian document he read about Islam that changed his mind too.
Bishop Harries has NOT changed his mind, however, and should be ignored on the topic.
Here is an interesting one. The "Twelve Tribes Communities." They have beliefs similar to the "Sacred Namers" as well as the "Messianic Jews."
"The Twelve Tribes' beliefs are similar to those of Christian fundamentalism, the Hebrew Roots movement, Messianic Judaism and the Sacred Name Movement; however the group believes that all denominations are fallen, and it therefore refuses to align itself with any denomination or movement. It does not identify itself as Christian, believing that Christianity is the "Whore of Babylon."
One noted aspect of the group is its insistence on using the pseudo-Hebrew name "Yahshua", as opposed to Jesus or even the more common Hebrew transliterated form Yeshua. Because the name "Yahshua" represents the nature of Jesus, the group similarly bestows Hebrew names upon members that are meant to reflect the personality of the individual. The group advocates racial segregation.
The following is a non-Catholic Christian source.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/2702-twelve-tribes
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/480-twelve-tribes-teachings
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/2704-twelve-tribes-research-resources
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They hypocritically condemn the idea of a "one world religion" - not because they do not want a "one world religion," but because they want THEIR religion to prevail as the "one world religion."
Protestant doctrines related to scriptural fundamentalism, anti-sacramentalism, radical individualism, state theocracy, marriage and the position of women bear striking parallels with earlier Islamic teachings
Since Islam and protestantism are both sola scriptura faiths, that is entirely accurate - apart, of course, from the trifling differences between the New Testament and the Quran, between the life of Jesus Christ and Muhammad.
2:16 P.M.
Prince Charles has been influenced by the syncretistic Traditionalist School of philosophy and therefore has no problem equating Sufism (the esoteric form of Islam) with Christianity and/or every other religion, which, according to the Traditionalist School are all "forms" of the one "primordial tradition."
This is why I would not set too much store by what he might say for or against Islam.
Just about a year ago, Prince Charles said that upon his accession to the throne, he was going to assume the title "Defender of Faith," not "Defender of THE Faith."
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-traditionalist-prince-of-wales/
http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2014/05/prince-charles-and-religion
Ah yes, Billy Graham... he's about as 'Baptist' as Eucharist receiving Bill Clinton,
... that Jesuit of old!
Dear 2.16pm,
It is important not only to know who has said what, but also when.
Prince Charles has long spoken misty waffle on religion and I do not know what he believes today, but I do know that he changed his mind recently about Islam being a religion of peace and you will not hear that from him again. It was a combination of his reading a particular document plus the heinous doings of ISIS that changed his mind. I have never met him but I know this via a short chain of reliable personal contacts. In case you think I am making false and inflated claims, check what he has said when, in the period since ISIS became prominent.
Some years ago he said that he would rather be "Defender of Faith" or "defender of the faiths" than "Defender of the faith" (a title that for centuries has been taken to mean the Reformed faith, although ironically it was originally bestowed on his ancestor Henry VIII by a Pope after Henry had critiqued Luther). Charles' comment led to a behind-the-scenes constitutional crisis, and about a year ago he backed off.
For confirmation that he will take the title "defender of the faith" and for his new tougher stance on Islam, read this article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2944283/Charles-tells-UK-Muslims-abide-values-Prince-says-come-live-Britain-respect-us.html
Oop[s, I meant Dear 3.15pm" in the post at 5.25pm; I *am* Anon@2.16pm.
Anonymous 5:25 P.M.
I do not think you are making false and inflated claims. The article you posted is more recent. What a difference a year makes.
Re: "misty waffle on religion"
LOL
Nevertheless, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that in addition to the horror of ISIS atrocities - which are part of a long, long list of other "Islamo-fascist" atrocities - Prince Charles' mum gave him a good talking to at some point - punctuated with a sound boxing of the ears!!!
P.S.
Here is another article from 2012 that might take the "misty" out of the "waffle."
Philosopher Prince
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/philosopher-prince/
P.P.S.
TRADITIONALISM
http://www.kheper.net/topics///////////perennial_philosophy/Traditionalism.html
What I posted a couple or so days ago while all the back and forth with Susanna, and Christine was going on, so of course, it got passed over..
Now I see someone has reposted it.
See what we miss when all the squabbles go on?
"Anonymous Anonymous said...
Can't deny what this is about, nor defend it.
Some will try and cry there is (yet another) misunderstanding.
What has seemed like "jello", is now firmly nailed to the wall in this official video.
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/01/07/pope_francis_asks_for_prayers_for_interreligious_dialogue__/1199403
7:46 PM"
"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;… John 17:20-22
The Vatican just keeps on exposing itself for what it really is, and, what dark power is behind it. The Vatican and its “pope” has been so active lately in promulgating their real agenda, one can hardly keep up. Here’s the latest where the Vatican “pays tribute” to the Occultist David Bowie. Read this account:
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/01/12/vatican-pays-extraordinary-tribute-to-david-bowie-in-his-own-words/
You don’t believe that Bowie was an Occultist/Satanist? Watch this critique of the Black Star video, which contains numerous symbolic and occult practices:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wwTZLw3hqw
Note: I am not knowledgeable of this person’s “ministry” other than what is contained in this video.
15And it happened that He (Jesus) was reclining at the table in his house, and many tax collectors and sinners were dining with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many of them, and they were following Him. 16When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that He was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they said to His disciples, "Why is He eating and drinking with tax collectors and sinners?" 17And hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Mark 2:15-17
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/12/the-cia-backed-start-up-thats-taking-over-palo-alto.html
Christine??? ..team Christine??
Report: Obama Wants to Become UN Secretary General, Netanyahu Doing Everything He Can to Stop Him
Leah Barkoukis | Jan 10, 2016
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2016/01/10/report-obama-wants-to-become-un-secretary-general-netanyahu-doing-everything-he-can-to-stop-him-n2102416_________________________________________________________________
From one year ago at American Thinker:
February 10, 2015
To become UN Sec General Obama must 'Solve' the Existence of Israel
By James Lewis
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/02/to_become_un_sec_general_obama_must_solve_the_existence_of_israel_.html
_________________________________________________________________
That is very interesting and deeply frightening, Susanna! Yet we should not be afraid!
Obama The Antichrist and his friend Francis The False Prophet???
Anonymous 7:13 P.M.
Indeed. We should NOT be afraid.
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Romans 8:31
I, I myself will comfort you: who art thou, that thou shouldst be afraid of a mortal man, and of the son of man, who shall wither away like grass? Isaiah 51:12
This is what was going on just a few hours before Obama gave his State of the Union Address. Obama made no reference to it in his speech.
10 US SAILORS IN IRANIAN CUSTODY
By Barbara Starr, Jim Sciutto, Jim Acosta, Stephen Collinson and Tom LoBianco, CNN
Updated 11:00 PM ET, Tue January 12, 2016
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/12/politics/10-u-s-sailors-in-iranian-custody/
____________________________________________________________________________
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/01/12/vatican-pays-extraordinary-tribute-to-david-bowie-in-his-own-words/
http://variety.com/2015/film/global/vatican-newspaper-review-slams-star-wars-calling-it-confused-and-hazy-1201667084/
Catholly Wood, what a production.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9rUzIMcZQ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Ministry_of_Public_Enlightenment_and_Propaganda
http://www.showbiz411.com/2016/01/12/white-house-hosting-first-ever-live-pre-show-for-state-of-the-union-address-hosted-by-actor
Mama oooooooooo........
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_world's_a_stage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_drama
gatta give Susanna one of these
http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Brody-Oscar-Nominations-2015-1200.jpg
www.endtimesresearchministry.com/january-11-2016-obama-as-un-general/
This site shows how Obama is probably NOT the Antichrist even though those in power may want you to think so. Netanyahu is dead set against Obama. How is Obama (if we are to entertain the propaganda that those who deny Christ are Israel despite the Holy Scriptures telling us the contrary) going to take over with flatteries?
More like so called 'pope' Francis!
Nice try though, Susanna.
Susanna will die trying!
"anti-Catholicism has always been the pornography of the puritan." Richard Hofstader
What a filthy mouthed and filthy minded jesuitical character that Richard Holfstader must be then!
He just called them as he saw them.
His mother was a Lutheran.
Well if she were then she obviously believed in consubstantiation which sadly would have helped in leading him to Rome then! If he saw 'them' that way and therefore if called 'them' so it would be because he must have been a filthy mouthed and filthy minded jesuitical character!
Anonymous 1:03 PM + 4:55PM,
Pornography you say?
Original Word: πορνεία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: porneia
Phonetic Spelling: (por-ni'-ah)
Short Definition: fornication, idolatry
Definition: fornication, whoredom; met: idolatry.
HELPS Word-studies
4202 porneía (the root of the English terms "pornography, pornographic"; cf. 4205 /pórnos) which is derived from pernaō, "to sell off") – properly, a selling off (surrendering) of sexual purity; promiscuity of any (every) type.
Makes one think of Romish so called popes kissing Korans, receiving the seal of Shiva (chakras anyone?), Assisi 1986 and 2011, and Francis's latest shenanigans, doesn't it! It doesn't get much more spiritually porneía than that, nor more truly anti -Catholic( being as Roman Catholicism is an oxymoron)!
1,000 year old Catholic Boy's Choir in Germany rocked by sexual abuse charges on 231 children and counting. For 30 years, when MOST of the abuse took place, former "pope" Benedict's brother (Georg Ratzinger) was in charge.
For TEN YEARS, prior to becoming pope, the then Cardinal Ratizinger was in charge of the Vatican's office that dealt (pay-offs & cover-ups) with EVERY single Roman Catholic sexual abuse claim. Kind of interesting, that Ratzinger's brother was in charge of a Boy's Choir where 231 child sex abuse cases were recorded, being that Cardinal Ratzinger held the office he did.
What could be more evil than abusing CHILDREN, and then enabling these sick freaks to continue on with their perversions in other dioceses ???
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/08/lawyer-231-boys-german-choir-school-abuse-victims-regensburger-domspatzen
Jorge Bergoglio (pope Francis) asked to appear in a european court for crimes against children & murders he allegedly knew about in Argentina. Reportedly, he never turned up despite the order and the witnesses calling for justice. Has the media covered it up? It is also reported that the previous pope left suddenly because his alleged sex crimes were about to be exposed.
http://itccs.org/2015/09/22/take-action-this-week-against-convicted-felon-jorge-bergoglio-aka-pope-francis/
As the anti-Catholic tag-team gets off on their somewhat childish banter recently here on this blog, one wonders why the pro-Catholics have not responded in kind by showing all the problems and scandals and pushes toward a one world religion among Protestant leaders. Ever hear of "taking the high road", morally speaking? What about "whoever is not against us is for us"? Somebody pretty high up said that.
Yes, Pope Francis has issues. But so does about every megachurch pastor you could name, and most other Protestant leaders. I can only think of a handful that I would give my time to anymore. And so much Protestant doctrine these days is straying further and further from the Bible. I am more and more coming to the conclusion that the deception coming upon the whole world, where even the elect will be deceived, will come from the apostate, worldly, "New Evangelicals" that have come out of the Protestant camp. Or maybe it will be some combination of that bunch and some of the more liberal Catholic leaders. At the very least, I would say that deception God is allowing to spread is not exclusively springing forth from either the Catholics or the Protestants.
What I find striking among the anonymous Catholic-bashers is the attitude of "Hee! We're right and you're wrong! And nothing you say will change our minds!" It smacks of pride.
It strikes me as coming from an unteachable mind. And to have that kind of mind is to be in a dangerous place, because the Holy Spirit can do nothing with a person who has a mind like that.
What about...."Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." -- 1 Peter 5:5
What I see among the Catholic-bashers here is not anything like humility. Scripture is useful for correction and reproof, but shouldn't those who are correcting and reproving do so with fear and trembling, remembering that in the same way they dish it out, God will deal with them on That Day?
I recently saw a signature line for someone on a discussion forum that said "Anyone who thinks they cannot be deceived...already is." Hmmm.
So please, stop being so smug, so self-righteous, so arrogant. Not just the Catholic-bashers, but all who post here in that manner. There is so much that we think we know, but we really don't. Especially when it comes to what God really thinks. He gives us His word, yes, but in that Word He says "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD."
That is rather humbling.
The more I read the Word, the more I realize there is that I DON'T know, the less vocal I am about things that can cause dissension and division among the Body of Christ, and the more vocal I am about the basics that bring salvation through Jesus Christ.
This really is a journey of humility we are all on, right? Exposing the deeds of darkness and remaining humble about it is not an easy thing. But at least we can try.
Anon 11:24PM,
Amen! You've captured my thoughts exactly; I could not have phrased them nearly as well, though.
To 11:24 PM
EXCELLENT POST and my thoughts EXACTLY!
Thank you!
Constance
To 7:31 PM
This "international court"
http://itccs.org/2015/09/22/take-action-this-week-against-convicted-felon-jorge-bergoglio-aka-pope-francis/
nmentioned at 7:31 ISN'T a court or tribunal at all. It is the website of a former Canadian removed pastor from what I believe is the United Church. I have his books somewhere here in my archive and after Court today will check it out.
Constance
11:24
"toward a one world religion among Protestant leaders"
Ha Ha, all I see is Babylonian controlled so-called Protestant pastors.
"Exposing the deeds of darkness and remaining humble about it is not an easy thing. But at least we can try."
YOU be humble in the face of death camps. It's oppressive, deceitful and about to lead to mass murder, they are moving to bus the homeless to shelters (even though we HAVE homeless shelters in our town which are under deliberate attack in the courts) The homeless are going to a super emergent, fake, rock-and-roll, you-would-call 'protestant' church which promotes the roman catholic catechisms and slams Luther on their website. The next stop is busing people to death camps, excuse me while I act disgusted and childish, if I lack your 'type' of humility so be it. You are part of the problem as far as I can tell. This is happening, IN AMERICA get real.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=u5sNoRnGURM
RCC= Celebrate his life
Bible= abomination
Oh, sorry it's 'childish' and not humble to expose this.
"anti-Catholicism has always been the pornography of the puritan." Richard Hofstader
1:03 PM
when they are reduced to ad hominem attacks, you have won the argument. OR maybe
the truth is pornography to the devil.
'me'
This is anon 11:24 PM....
I don't plan on sitting on the sidelines this year. 2016 is shaping up to be a really chaotic year. I plan on fighting against the darkness loudly, and obnoxiously even. Fighting against the darkness and being humble are not mutually exclusive. But choose your battles well, friend. Major on the majors, as they say, and don't engage in friendly fire while a bigger enemy sits back and laughs at all the infighting. Learn to spot the real enemies. Quite often they are not what a lot of websites, spokespersons, radio and internet personalities, etc, point to. Many, if not most of them, have already been deceived and are leading people on "wild goose chases" or down rabbit holes that lead nowhere good.
Pray about what to do if/when you are led off to a death camp. It may be that God would have you go humbly, in order to be a better witness of His grace and love. It may be that God wants you to pick up arms, and fight that way, sacrificing your own safety or even your own life for that of others. But either way, make sure you are submitted to HIM in all you do, and not doing things in your own wisdom and your own power and according to your own will.
It's a balancing act. It's not easy to discern what to do, and when, and how. The times ahead will take more discernment than most of us are used to having. Let us pray for each other.
May God be with us all and bring glory and honor to His name!
I'm back from Court. A real court, that is. As regards the "international court" of ITTCS.ORG, that is one Kevin Annett, his internet presence, and those he has duped into thinking he is a real operation. I havew his book LOVE AND DEATH IN THE VALEY as well as UNREPENTANT in my personal library. Kevin Annett is 60 years old or close to it. From one website commenting about him, we read:
Kevin Annett is a defrocked priest who has taken-up a second career as a con-artist/grifter. Annett has convinced a bunch of unwitting people that he is the saviour of Indigenous people everywhere, and the only person who is working on their behalf. This is not true- rather, he is using their cause for his own personal gain.
Kevin is most famous for his faking of the discovery of a ‘mass grave’ at the Six Nations Reserve in Brandford, Ontario. Apparently, he is pulling the same con at other reserves- one has to feel sorry for all of the people who he is building false hope for.
Curiously, Kevin Is an International Socialist, and has deep connections to the people who were involved in hijacking the occupy movement. Some of his relations include Winnie Ng, Sakura Saunders, and Judy Rebick
He is quite the character -- I don't know how much of him is megalomania; how much is delusion; and how much is just plain old fraud.
Constance
The above is from here:
http://www.genuinewitty.com/kevin-annett/
Constance
I agree with you 11:45 AM. Would only add this: It is church leaderships (pick any denomination-going across the board) that are generally leading the flocks astray. It is the age of deception as the Bible has warned us. We must be discerning along these lines and God's word supplies this to us as we lean upon His Spirit to know as in James 1:5 in asking for Him the wisdom of God.
Every christian church has real wheat among the tares within them as we can see from Revelation Chapters 2-3, but only Smyrna and Philadelphia had no rebuke from the Lord. Suffering for upholding the Cross of Christ unashamed and uncompromised and the love of God (much higher than the love of church) were what He regarded commendable among those churches. Love is not sloppy agape. Love takes hard stands against evil wherever it is found (in either choices as you bring out) and gives Christ Alone His due as Only Lord and Savior, to the exclusion of all others-the narrow way-to heaven 9and God's words not mine: and few there be that find it. The rest of the churches had few good points and too full of sin (they justified) to rightly uphold His word and His name.
It is important to be careful in this admonition from Apostle Paul who held the Gospel above all things, to all men everywhere, as in Romans 2:15 & 16----------
15) Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rev. 13:10 says
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: He that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev. 14:12 says
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of god and the faith of Jesus.
_should say God (capital G)
typo
To Anonymous @ 11:24 PM
While I agree with you that we need to be humble and in the fear of the Lord when declaring the truth, nevertheless, we are commanded to declare the truth ... in that spirit ... but, without compromise. That is the main problem with the ecumenical movement. Truth is ALWAYS sacrificed in order to be at "peace" with virtually EVERY religious entity that declares belief in Christ. (Read the entire chapter of John 8 to see how Jesus dealt with "believers" in HIM ... but DENIED His Word).
In opposition to this "truth sacrificing unity," Jude tells us "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3
Paul writes in Galatians Chapter 1 that "... the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." Gal. 1:11,12 Paul warns us that there are those that "would pervert the gospel of Christ." Gal. 1:9 He goes on to state emphatically, without compromise for the sake of "unity" or "peace" ... "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Gal 1:9 Rather strong language, don't you think?
The fact is, Rome DOES preach "another gospel." The RCC "gospel" is one that is falsely based on works, and merit, and NOT on the finished redeeming work of Christ. I previously posted a link to a very long list of both Mortal & Venial sins. This list is extremely enlightening. Most Christians do not know that when Catholics die, they must go to SUFFER the fires of Purgatory in order to cleanse their imperfect souls for heaven. This is NOT the Gospel of Christ. Furthermore, there are many Mortal Sin infractions (such as intentionally missing Mass prior to death)that send the Catholic into ETERNAL Hell. This is factual, and stating such is not "bashing" the Catholic people .... it is TELLING them the truth so that they might seek the TRUE Christ, and His righteousness that is found only in Scripture ... "faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God."
Jesus Christ warned that His way is "straight and narrow" and that there would be "few" that would find the true life found only in Him. Conversely, the "broad way" is the way that leads to "destruction" and MANY are on that path.
I cannot answer for others ... I can only answer for myself. I present the truth in the spirit of love, and with "fear and trembling." Declaring unity with falsehood is certainly something to be feared, for it is NOT pleasing God. When I speak to Jehovah Witnesses, for example, I NEVER compromise the truth, yet I have a love their souls. I see NOWHERE in Scripture that we are told to compromise truth in order for there to be peace among "religious" people. The Truth is what sets men's souls free. Lies in the form of false gospels, preached by false religious systems, leads to bondage and death.
Where does RayB or any non-Catholic get off telling Roman Catholics what they believe and what their Church teaches???
Just about everything RayB has said is false. His undocumented "factual" presentation is not factual at all.
Since the burden of proof is on the accuser, he is the one who needs to prove what he is saying beyond a reasonable doubt - i.e. with the kind of evidence that would stand up in a court of law.
If the RCC is a "cult," then RayB is among that "cult's" children by virtue of his own Trinitarian baptism and what we have here is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. If he do not believe in the Trinity and has not received Trinitarian baptism ( in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ) then HE are the one who is "preaching another gospel." He may be a "Christian, but it is a "Christianity" of his own devising.
As for works, St. James declared that "faith without works is dead." James 2:14-26 This is because FAITH involves the whole person......body soul and spirit. Works are "faith in action."
Finally, if anyone is honestly interested in learning the TRUTH about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, they need only check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Protestants may still disagree with the Catechism, but at least they will have an accurate description of what it is they are disagreeing with.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
Anonymous said:
"Just about everything RayB has said is false. His undocumented "factual" presentation is not factual at all."
Purgatory isn't a teaching of the Roman Catholic Church?
"Salvation" in the RCC isn't dependent upon works & merit?
It's amazing the things you learn in here. I guess "RayB" just invented Purgatory. LOL !
RayB didn't invent Purgatory, but he has invented a great deal of "theology fiction" ABOUT Purgatory. Same with "works." No one even mentioned "merit." RayB added that one in as a "bonus."
Since RayB can't even prove his own rule of faith, he should "humbly" refrain from trying to "disprove" the faith of others by that same rule.
The fact that he keeps glossing over the flaws in his own rule when confronted is evidence that his rants against the Catholic Church are just an attempt to dodge having to explain the abyss of self-contradiction by which he presumes to "refute" the beliefs of others But we are going to keep reminding him every time he "forgets." LOL!
Anonymous ...
I stand by my post @ 9:43 PM.
I have no desire to play silly games with you. If you can't even respond specifically with anything in my post, there is no point to go any further. Obviously, you defend the heretical position upon which Rome rests ... Purgatory. Argue all you want, but Purgatory is an addition to the cross, making Christ's perfect, one, never to be repeated sacrifice on the cross a mockery. If you truly knew the saving grace of Christ, you would readily know that Purgatory is not only pure fiction, it is utter blasphemy.
"He that has ears to hear, let him hear."
"one" ... I meant to write "once"
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