UPDATE: MY THURSDAY NIGHT, JUNE 25, 2009 RADIO GUEST FOR SECOND HALF OF SHOW IS CLIFF KINCAID REGARDING HIS BRILLIANT NEW NEWSWITHVIEWS ARTICLE "UN TO EMERGE AS GLOBAL IRS"
"The Treaty of Lisbon, expected to enter into force in 2010, introduces two new European top jobs: a high-profile president who will chair EU summit meetings for a two-and-a-half year term and a revamped foreign policy chief (see EurActive LinksDossier on 'Choosing Mr. Europe').
"In a widely-noted interview
with Spanish daily El País, Jean-Marie Colombani, former editor of Le Monde, maintains that Sarkozy is pushing for former Spanish Prime Minister Felipe González to become the first EU president once the Lisbon Treaty is ratified.
"According to Colombani, Sarkozy has dropped his support for former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, among other reasons for "not having done anything" in his current capacity as special representative of the Middle East Quartet. Colombani claimed that Sarkozy "does not care" that González is a socialist, as he sees him first as a "man of ideas about Europe".
The European Council of 14 December 2007 decided to establish a "reflection group" of no more than nine people, selected from across the Union on the basis of merit, to identify the key issues and developments which the Union is likely to face in future and to analyse how these might be addressed.
Former Spanish Prime Minister Felipe Gonzalez was named chair of the group, while Vaira Viėe-Freiberga, a former president of Latvia, and Jorma Ollila, former CEO of Nokia, were named vice-chairs.
It was agreed that the chairman and vice-chairs should submit a list of names to be considered during the French EU Presidency.
96 comments:
Constance, wow! just sent you per email a pictures of the two from the good old times :) farmer
REPOST from previous blog. I am reposting this because I don't want it to get buried. I think it's important enough. It doesn't relate to the subject, but don't want folks to miss it:
Joyce said...
CONSTANCE and all,
Please take a look at this:
A MONUMENT TO MANKIND:
http://www.humanitad.org/programs/m2m/
http://tiny.cc/MZeJ6
Shades of Alice Bailey:
http://www.humanitad.org/about/symbol/
http://tinyurl.com/l9rdkw
http://www.humanitad.org/network/mdg_network
http://tinyurl.com/nta7ps
One of the "team members":
Gary Krupp KC*SG OStJ
Interfaith Advisor
Gary Krupp is the Founder and President of Pave The Way Foundation, a not-for-profit organization dedicated to bridging the gap between the world�s diverse faiths. His renown as one of the world's most influential lay-persons is often highlighted in the world media, more recently as a result of his core facilitation of Pope Benedict XVI's recent trip to the United States.
Honors
Knight Commander of the Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great
Vatican City, July 2000
Jewish National Fund�s Centennial Tree of Life Award
Garden City, New York, September, 2002
Investment by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II into the Anglican Order of St. John
New York City, July, 2005
United Nations Path to Peace Servitor Pacis Award
United Nations, New York City, June, 2006
Sacred Constantinian Order of St. George Benemerenti Medal of Good Works
St. Matthews Cathedral, Washington D.C., June 2006
Humanitarian Award - New Seminary, United Nations
Cathedral of St. John the Divine, New York City, June 2006
Jerusalem Medal
He's Founder of this organization:
http://www.pavethewayfoundation.org/AboutUs/
http://tinyurl.com/mtdnle
These are the supporters of the project, including Robert Muller and folks from the Global Consciousness Project:
http://www.humanitad.org/team/#leaders
http://tinyurl.com/mx5asp
More:
http://www.humanitad.org/network/humanitad_network/
http://tinyurl.com/ls997g
Humantaid links to this:
http://www.exemplarzero.org/
and maybe this is the plan for Jerusalem:
http://www.humanitad.org/programs/earth_sanctuary/
http://tinyurl.com/lqmsyo
Take a careful look at this site and the connecting sites too:
http://www.globalimpactforum.org/global_reach.php
http://tiny.cc/vMDbx
Joyce
12:17 PM
Solana-Gonzales and many other nice pitures also here:
http://www.fund-fernandez-ordonez.org/imagenes2.htm
farmer
A few facts about Gonzalez. He's anti-settlement activity in Israel, did the eulogy at Rabin's funeral and had corruption charges against him.
He is long time player in the Middle East Peace process, and chaired the conference Madrid + 15 which led to Oslo. Organizations like Search for Common Grounds took part in this, back in 1991:
http://tiny.cc/y0B03
Seville, his hometown, is the part of Spain associated with its golden past of happier times when Jews, Muslims and Christians lived side by side. Sufism, Kabbalah and Christian Mysticism flourished in this era.
All of these factors would make him a good candidate for EU Permanent Presidency, but there might be some power struggle between UK and Spain..
Maybe they should bring back the monarchies since they're looking for a king?
Joyce
Some of the organizations connected to Madrid plus 15 besides Search for Common Ground were:
http://www.cipresearch.fuhem.es/html/links.asp http://tiny.cc/zhXYr
Foundation for 3 Cultures.. My spanish is so so, but you can figure a lot out from the visuals:
http://www.tresculturas.org/
this organization:
http://www.fafo.no/indexenglish.htm
and International Crisis Group, which should be familiar to most of you:
http://www.crisisgroup.org/
Joyce
This article which is found in the body of the Madrid 15 article that I posted is in today's Arutz Sheva and might give some clues as to the choice of Gonzalez:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/119300
http://tiny.cc/YdCDx
Besides the fact that he's Spanish and so is Solana, there could be other less obvious reasons that he is favored over Blair. Blair has not been seen as especially successful in his role as envoy for the Quartet.. This could be at least one factor..
Blair has talked a lot but not been successful in his efforts, and might have too much baggage from Iraq and Bush.. Europe is also leaning towards being secular, and Blair converted to Catholicism, whether he was sincere or not.
As far as I can see Gonzalez has no religious affiliations but I wondered if he was one of the hidden Jews of Spain, of which there are many. His name is typical. Some insist that all of the Spanish names ending in ez were conversos or maranos.
http://www.sephardim.com/
Just a thought...
Joyce
Here's some additional evidence that this could be the case.
http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/7016/Jews2.htm
This Wikipedia ( not the best source but) article talks about Spain, mentions Gonzalez and has links to the Madrid Conference:
http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/7016/Jews2.htm
http://tiny.cc/EgASF
Joyce
Correction:
There was the Madrid 1991 conference and the Madrid+15 ( 15 years later). Sorry about the confusion, but Felipe Gonzalez chaired both of them.
Joyce
Since International Crisis Group was involved in Madrid+15 conference, just want to highlight the board:
http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1139&l=1
http://tiny.cc/soBEd
Among others... George Mitchell, George Soros, Brezinksi..
Joyce
Here's the summary of the Madrid 15 conference.
http://tiny.cc/7nBtY
The final comments of Gonzalez and Solana:
"Can Madrid 1991 happen again? Oslo failed because it had taken place before the conditionswere ripe for it to lead to a final agreement. Looking backwards we can say that fifteen yearsago the distance between the parties was greater than today, but at the same time, hopes werealso higher than today. Today the details of a final agreement can be easily delineated; even language is substantially more rational. Although it is not a final solution and there is stillneed for final status negotiations, the Arab League initiative in Beirut 2002 was a milestonethat the international community cannot ignore. Felipe González continued by saying thatsince World War II no country has occupied the territory of another and consolidated it. Territorial occupation has not worked and territory needs to be returned, in order to achieve afinal settlement. The longer the situation of occupation lasts, the higher the costs will be, butthe result will have to be the same: withdrawal. In light of new challenges, traditionalmethods are far from being efficient; international terrorism will not be defeated with militarypower. Although military power is still needed, conventional military intervention is nolonger enough, something which we must bear in mind in politics today. The solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has to be a final one. González said that theMadrid process and the Roadmap are not going anywhere. Parties now find themselves in adifficult situation: one is so strong that it cannot make any concessions because it would lookweak, and the other is so weak that it cannot make any concessions either. As there are noagreements without concessions, efforts have to be put together to bridge that gap. González closed by reviewing the current situation in Lebanon, Iran, Iraq and Afghanistanand concluded that to avoid incremental confrontation and to change the current dynamic, dialogue is the answer, including with Islamist groups like Hamas. It is not only necessary to talk with those with whom one does agree, but also with those with whom one does not. Javier Solana stated that the “moment to act has arrived” in order to “put a political processin motion”. It is not possible to move forward with the step-by-step approach because insteadof building confidence it has been creating mistrust. As an example of such, Solana
Page 86
Madrid: Fifteen Years LaterTowards Peace in the Middle East:10-12 January 2007Addressing Concerns and Expectations 85mentioned the incident when the IDF invaded Ramallah after the last Olmert-Abbas meeting.Solana doubted whether the Roadmap was going anywhere, as its potential has never beentested. Solana claimed that all the ingredients necessary for peace were present within theRoadmap, but that the political will to put it in motion has been lacking. He talked of theunprecedented opening now for a path to peace, especially under the umbrella of the ArabLeague’s Initiative, and stressed the need for an external monitor to achieve comprehensivepeace. He suggested avoiding the Sharon scenario in which he was both actor and judge ofhis actions. Solana concluded that time is an urgent issue and that it is necessary to urge theprocess forward again within the first half of the year 2007."
Joyce
My suspicion is that Gonzalez will be a handshaking Javier Solana puppet.
In 1995, when I first discovered Solana and nobody was as careful of protecting the obvious about him as they appear now to do, I read MFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs) pages which proclaimed that Javier Solana had been the true author of the Israeli / Middle East Peace Process. He had told the Israelis, "look, I have Arab friends. You should go and do likewise." Grandpa/Great uncle (whichever it is THIS week) Salvador deMadariaga was believed by some to be Jewish because he wrote the book on Christopher Columbus being Jewish. We also now know that deMadariaga became a Sufi. We know this from Solana's mother/cousin (whichever she is THIS WEEK). A combination of "converso"/Sufi would give Solana some "cousin" bonafides on both sides -- both the Jewish / Moslem cultures.
Solana, per his old der Spiegel interviews which Herb Peters and I both commented on a few years ago, believes the presidency of the EU to be basically "a handshaker" and the true power will reside with his prospective FOREIGN MINISTER office.
He would love (1) to install Gonzalez who would clearly work to fulfill all of Javier Solana's so very clever agendas; and (2) CONTROL GONZALEZ who left his job as PM of Spain under a cloud of corruption revolving around the Castillian rebels.
Constance
Constance,
Madaraiga is definitely a Jewish name, and it's quite possible that Solana is too. His mother/aunt or whatever she is wouldn't be the first Jew to dabble in Islam.
A lot were converted by force in the Islamic countries where they were exiled, but this is clearly not the case for Solana's mother/aunt.
Sabbatai Zevi, thought to be a messiah by some has this background:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbatai_Zevi
http://tiny.cc/sKyc8
You can read about his followers, the Sabbateans, who, according to Barry Chamish believes are trying to destroy Israel, in case you haven't already heard Barry's theory:
http://tiny.cc/5mCM7
I don't know what I think of Barry.. Haven't paid enough attention to him to be honest, but there are definitely some high level Jews, that clearly don't have Israel's interests at heart. We can all think of some of their names. Not all Jewish, whether hidden or openly Jewish are Zionist, and not all are even happy to be Jews.
From my point of view, it's always a bad thing for any Jew to despise his birthright. Esau, who was not a Jew, did this.. but who wants to be associated with Esau?
I love the way Paul puts it:
Rom. 3:1-3 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? Great in every respect. First of all, that athey were entrusted with the boracles of God. What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
The bottom line is all of this vain human wisdom about solving the Middle East Peace process and taking control of the world will be crushed by the the everlasting kingdom of Yeshua, so let them scheme all they want...
Psa. 2:1-9 Why are the nations in an uproar
And the peoples devising a vain thing?
The kings of the earth take their stand
And the rulers take counsel together
Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying, “Let us tear their fetters apart And cast away their cords from us!” He who sits in the heavens laughs,
The Lord scoffs at them. Then He will speak to them in His anger And terrify them in His fury, saying, “But as for Me, I have installed My King
Upon Zion, My holy mountain.”
“I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to Me, ‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
‘Ask of Me, and aI will surely give bthe nations as Your inheritance, And the very ends of the earth as Your possession. ‘You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.’”
....so let the rulers take their counsel together.because God is laughing..
I'm watching with great interest, but grateful to know where my salvation comes from..
Joyce
11:41 PM in an earlier thread wrote: “While David, Sandra, and Kathy are tragically turning comedy into tragedy, they are also helping to speed up and fulfill the Final Holocaust a la Zechariah and Malachi, thus helping to make the Bible even more believable!”
Its not just these usual suspects that are speeding things along, try high officials in our government who constantly claim they are slaves to the rule of law; I have to laugh at just how dumbedy-down Americans have become.
Some persons and groups are keeping the terrorist supplied with money and intelligence, but it seems that the Bush administration and the “O” administration will fight to keep that information from those who most have a right to know.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/world/middleeast/24saudi.html?_r=3
I was watching “Exodus” the movie the other day and did a little back-ground look at its genesis; turns out that the Jew haters believe that it was a propaganda piece, even disregarding Ari Ben Canaan’s powerful speech of admiration for his fallen Muslim friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtNAcCXYK6M
Amin Al-Husseini [xliii] : “I declare a Holy War, My Muslim Brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!”http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html#_ednref43
To All:
PAVE THE WAY FOUNDATION
Pave the Way Foundation (PTWF) is a non-sectarian organization whose mission is to identify and eliminate non-theological obstacles between religions, headed by Gary Krupp.
It has done considerable research on the papacy of Pius XII and has sought to deconstruct negative stereotypes such as Hitler's Pope.
The Foundation boasts several major accomplishments, including initiating the largest Jewish audience in history to meet with a sitting Pope.
On January 18, 2005 168 Jewish leaders met with Pope John Paul II It initiated the first loan ever of the manuscripts of Maimonides from the Vatican Library to the State of Israel in September 2005. It identified the availability and a donor to acquire the Bodmer papyrus for the Vatican Library January 18, 2007.
It arranged the digitizing of the manuscripts of the Franciscan Custody of the Holy Land for permanent archiving and protection. It negotiated the acquisition of high tech medical equipment for Casa Sollievo Della Sofferenza the hospital of St. Padre Pio in Italy. It sponsored the exhibit “Pope John Paul II and the Jewish People- A Blessing to one another in New York." It helped to accelerate the affirmation of the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem. It is also working to help bring peace to the Middle East promoting the Wasatia Forum with Palestinian children.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pave_the_Way_Foundation
______________________________
NEWLY DISCOVERED DOCUMENTS PROVE POPE PIUS XII WAS A FRIEND TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER WORLD WAR II
New York 2/20/2009 01:01 AM GMT (TransWorldNews)
Pave the Way Foundation (PTWF), a non-sectarian organization whose mission is to identify and eliminate non-theological obstacles between religions, announced the discovery of new documents which prove, by his actions, that Pope Pius XII was in reality a friend of the Jewish people before, during and after World War II.
New documents discovered in the Vatican Secret Archives, by Dr. Michael Hesemann,* reveal that Archbishop Eugenio Pacelli, future Pius XII, intervened in 1917, through the German government, to assure the Jews of Palestine that they would be protected from any harm from the Ottoman Turks. Dr. Hesemann further stated that Pacelli also directly intervened with the World Zionist Organization representative Nachum Sokolov, and used his influence to arrange for Mr. Sokolov to meet directly with the Benedict XV in 1917 to discuss a Jewish homeland in Palestine. In 1926, Pacelli also encouraged Catholics in Germany to join the Committee Pro Palestina, which supported Jewish settlements in Palestine.
Gary Krupp, President of PTWF stated that since the PTWF Symposium on the Pius XII Papacy in Rome in September, over 300 new pages of original documents have come to light and can be downloaded at www.ptwf.org. Among these documents, is the hand written archive entry of a Catholic nun, who details the 1943 order received directly from Pope Pius XII to help hide the Jews in Rome...read entire article...
http://tinyurl.com/lae2l2
continued......
continued.....
Just for the record, Gary Krupp, the President of the Pave the Way Foundation is Jewish.
Mr. Krupp, who is Jewish and grew up despising Pope Pius XII, decided to begin this investigation when he discovered, through Dan Kurzman’s book, A Special Mission: Hitler's Secret Plot to Seize the Vatican and Kidnap Pope Pius the XII, detailed testimony from General Karl Wolff describing how Hitler ordered him to develop a plan to seize the Vatican and kidnap the Pope. The Pope’s restrained caution, with regard to public statements, which has been a source of criticism of Pius XII, was justified in light of the testimony of concentration camp inmates who faced increased punishments whenever church leaders spoke. There were spies within the Vatican itself, and German rifles less than 200 yards from the Pope’s very windows....read entire article....
http://tinyurl.com/lae2l2
_____________________________
INVESTIGATING THE PAPACY OF POPE PIUS XII - ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS PAGE
http://tinyurl.com/m7swvz
_____________________________
PAPAL INVITATION: Pave the Way Foundation has been invited to meet with Pope Benedict XVI in Washington, DC (April 10, 2008)
Pave the Way Foundation (PTWF), a non-sectarian organization tasked with removing non-theological obstacle between the religions, has been invited to meet with Pope Benedict XVI at a small gathering of inter-religious organizations. Only fifteen organizations from the United States have been invited. PTWF will be represented by its founders Meredith and Gary Krupp of Long Beach, New York. Mr. Krupp, who is Jewish, curiously is actually the highest ranking lay person in the Roman Catholic Church on Long island as was knighted first by Pope John Paul II to the Papal Knighthood of St. Gregory the Great as a Commander and raised in rank by Pope Benedict XVI to Commander with a Silver Star. Mr. Krupp is the only Jewish man in history ever to have been recognized by two Popes and to be inducted by Anglican Church into the Order of St. John of Jerusalem..
....Unique amongst inter-religious groups, Pave the Way Foundation does not specialize in dialog or talking but rather sponsors concrete gestures of goodwill from one religious group to another. PTWF initiated the first ever loan of rare Jewish manuscripts of Maimonides first to be seen by a delegation of Jewish scholars at the Vatican Library and then placed on loan to the Israel Museum in Jerusalem. PTWF organized the largest Jewish audience ever with a sitting Pope to thank Pope John Paul II in January 2005 for all he had done in religious reconciliation. Thanks to the work of PTWF, the Bodmer Papyrus, dating from 175 AD and containing the Gospels of St. John and St. Luke and the oldest written version of the Lord's Prayer in existence, was donated to the Vatican Library in January 2007....read entire article...
http://tinyurl.com/makhxy
____________________________
Again, Pave The Way states that its mission is to remove NON-THEOLOGICAL obstacles between religions.
That is not the same thing as the New Age Movement's agenda of promoting religious syncretism.
I am very well aware that the New Age Movement peddles its wares under the guise of being a "peace movement."
However, I honestly don't think that the Pave The Way Foundation is one of them.
FOUNDATION SAYS DOCUMENTS WILL SHOW PIUS HELPED JEWS
June 16, 2009
ROME (JTA) -- A New York-based foundation says it will release original
documents showing that controversial wartime Pope Pius XII worked to aid
Jews during the Holocaust.
In a statement Tuesday, Pave the Way Foundation President Gary Krupp said
the 2,300 pages of documents, dating from 1940-45, were discovered through
the foundation's private research and provide "strong support to the
argument that Pope Pius XII -- Eugenio Pacelli -- worked diligently to save
Jews from Nazi tyranny."
Krupp said many of the documents were discovered in a monastery in Avellino,
Italy.
Krupp, who is Jewish, has close ties with the Vatican and twice has been named a Papal knight. He announced last year that Pave the Way, a nonsectarian foundation that promotes interfaith cooperation, would
investigate the papacy of Pius XII by interviewing eyewitnesses and
gathering publicly available documentation and newspaper accounts.
The aim of the investigation is to disprove critics who accuse Pius of having turned a blind eye to Jewish suffering during the Holocaust.
In his statement, Krupp criticized historians with "private agendas" for having "let down" the public by failing to research properly.
http://tinyurl.com/nxqfkz
The following article explains why Gary Krupp was first knighted in 2000 by Pope John Paul II.
PAVE THE WAY FOUNDATION
Monday, March 2, 2009
We recently added a link on our website to Pave The Way Foundation (PTWF). Gary Krupp who is the President and founder of PTWF is the uncle of Financial Recovery Services, managing partner, Michael Epstein. It must run in the family that Gary Krupp and nephew Michael Epstein both strive to make a difference in the world.
Gary started his foundation after being knighted July 29, 2000 by Pope John Paul II for saving a Vatican hospital in Italy millions of dollars over a 20 year period. He took his new title and now uses it to change the way the world views each others religious beliefs. Their slogan is, "Embrace the Similarities Savor the Difference." Gary constantly bridges the gaps between the major religions in the world, striving for religious acceptance and peaceful coexistance. Recently Gary Krupp and his brother-in-law Harry Epstein, through a friend of Harry's, Frank Hanna III, bought and donated to the Vatican the Bodmer Papyrus, which is the oldest written version of the Gospels of St. John and St. Luke and contains the oldest written version of the Lord's Prayer which was written sometime between 175 and 225 AD.
Michael in a different stage of his life, and career, strives to make a difference and helps businesses get refunds back from the IRS for the telephone excise tax refund. It is a 5 billion dollar fund set aside for companies that only 6 percent of businesses took advantage of. He also tries to help businesses obtain thier refunds from antitrust class action settlements. Then Michael, and his partners at FRS, introduce new services that save their clients even more money. In todays world and economy, Michael is trying to make a difference and help his clients by obtianing their refunds and getting it to their bottom line as quickly as possible.
Although Pave The Way Foundation and Gary Krupp's impact on the world is on a larger scale, he and nephew Michael are both doing what they love and trying to make a difference.
http://www.frsvs.com/blog/
"MY WIFE AND I GREW UP HATING PIUS XII"
8 May 2009
....The Pave the Way Foundation, the organisation the Krupps founded in 2002 to help to remove non-theological obstacles between faiths, has identified the role of Pius as the biggest stumbling block in Catholic-Jewish relations for the last 46 years when in fact it should be a reason for closer unity.
"Merry and I grew up hating Pius XII," Krupp explained. "I did two years of personal research before we decided that we should tackle this project. With further research, I was 100 per cent convinced that my past impression of him was completely wrong. I was then angry because I was misled by those who call themselves historians."
He believes that Pius will eventually be exonerated. All most people know about him is that he was "Hitler's Pope", says Krupp: "But if you go to an average person with the information that we have found they can only come to one conclusion - that this guy was the greatest hero of World War Two. We can prove it. We have something on our side - documented proof - where the revisionists haven't a scrap of paper to support their theories."
To find such proof the foundation has commissioned the German historian Michael Hesemann to search the Vatican archives opened two years ago by Pope Benedict XVI. These cover the period from 1922 to 1939, the years when Eugenio Pacelli served as nuncio to Bavaria and then as Pope Pius XI's "Jew-loving" Secretary of State, as he was referred to by the Nazis.
Krupp says he was surprised to learn that "literally none" of the "Monday-morning quarterbacks" who criticise Pius have visited the archives. Yet the same critics, he says, continue to wrongfully dismiss each new finding as either old or irrelevant as they "defend their theories at the expense of historical accuracy"...
...Most recently, the American professor David Dalin, a rabbi, has used historical evidence to demonstrate that the attacks on Pius are ideologically motivated, largely emanating from "lapsed and angry Catholics" intent on damaging the papacy, and which, he argues, in reality amount to a form of Holocaust denial because they disparage the testimonies of survivors. Sir Martin Gilbert, the world's leading authority on the Holocaust, is among those who believe Pius should be considered as a Righteous Gentile.
In this light, the restoration of Pius's reputation is an issue of truth and justice. But to Krupp it remains principally a Jewish issue because it has the potential to alienate his people from a billion Catholics whom they should consider as historic allies. "Today, with the dangers to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel, we need to do everything possible to eliminate these obstacles when they are simply not based on facts," Krupp explained. "We really need every friend we can get."
In this respect his work is a deadly serious venture and is as much concerned with the future as the past. It should be seen by Christians and Jews alike as a mitzvah - a Jewish good deed. read entire article...
http://www.catholicherald.co.
uk/features/
f0000411.shtml
DOCUMENT NAMES POPE AS CONSPIRATOR AGAINST HITLER
June 22, 2009
http://zenit.org/article-26249?l=english
Susanna,
The Boston Globe has a recent interview on the Israeli Ambassador to the Vatican, on the subject too.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles_of_faith/2009/06/in_boston_israeli_diplomat_speaks_of_rome_.html
Savvy
Susanna,
Beware of Jews who accept Papal knighthood:
http://www.forward.com/articles/14397/
http://tiny.cc/8IbQj
There are some in the Jewish community that are not too happy about him..Let me quote them:
"Krupp said he was outraged by the decision of several Holocaust museums and scholars not to attend. “How come a schlemiel from Long Beach was able to find some material on the pope that all those PhDs can’t dig up?” he said."
Schlemiel is not a very flattering word in Yiddish...
I will repeat what I said earlier. There have always been Jews who work for the destruction of Israel.
Joyce
I want to stress, that the issue is not so much Gary Krupp, as Humanitad. Now for all who missed it, go back and take a long look at Humanitad's site and you will have questions not only about Gary, but about everything they do:
Here are some of the leaders of this, and the name Robert Muller for one should sound big warning bells:
World Leadership Advocates & Contributors
Janez Drnovsek †
Sir Arthur C Clarke †
Jayantha Dhanapala
Dr Robert Muller
Jonathan Granoff
Prof. Dr Bernard Lietaer
Hermawan Kartajaya
Hilde Rapp
D Paul Schafer
Rabia Elizabeth Roberts Ed.d
Norman Solomon
Ed Eagle Man McGaa
Selma Brackman
Cheryl Stoute
Iden Wetherell
Elliott Maynard
Laura Uplinger
Estelle Myers
Dr Roger Nelson
...but I will provide info on more of the leaders. Gary Krupp is a member of their administrative team so he's either very deceived, or very committed to the UN's agenda, that is the Millennial Development Goals:
Administration
Name Role Contact
Sacha Stone Founder & Principal sacha@humanitad.org
Bremley W.B. Lyngdoh Director of External Relations bremley@humanitad.org
Richard Swift Program Director richard@humanitad.org
Dr. Dezso Benedek Director Of Education & Cultural Affairs humanitadprograms@mac.com
Michele Joshi Trustee & Director michele@humanitad.org
Gary Krupp KC*SG OStJ Interfaith Advisor
Dr Aiban B Lyngdoh Public Health Programme Officer aiban@humanitad.org
Cavaliere Philip Bonn Strategic Advisor philip@humanitad.org
Zen Player Innovative Business & Marketing Strategy zenplayer@linknet.com.au
Heather A. Saul Permanent Cultural Attache: Huangshan - China suyayue@mac.com
Kevin Campbell-Scott Senior I.T. Affairs kevin@humanitad.org
Marius Milcher Director of Web Development mgmilcher@googlemail.com
Back to Top
This is criticsm of Krupp:
Critics reply that Krupp, who previously worked in the medical equipment industry, is hewing too close to advocates of Pius XII, who reigned from 1939 to 1958, within the Church. In 2000, Krupp received the papal honor of Knight Commander in the Order of St. Gregory the Great “as a result of his success recruiting medical equipment companies to donate $15 million worth of equipment for the Casa Sollievo della Sofferenza Hospital in Italy,” according to the Web site of his Pave the Way Foundation.
so there may be more going on than meets the eye. Maybe he's not such a schlemiel...if he can find 15 million worth of free equipment....but maybe there's more to his knighthood than meets the eye.
There's a whole issue of what kind of Jew would accept this papal knighthood, two at that. I would say a Jew that is a bit disconnected from the roots of what this Knighthood represents..
Joyce
I don't want to get stuck on Krupp, because that's really not the subject, although in some ways it is. There are many Jews who are selling out their own people. Joining to the UN Millennial Development Goals is a sell out of the Jews and all Israel. The UN is committed to dividing the land and having an international capital of all the religions in Jerusalem.
Maybe Gary needs to do more homework...Maybe we should send him Hannah Newman's article about the Rainbow Swastika, so he can understand what the UN, Alice Bailey, Robert Muller who openly praises Alice Bailey stands for.
Or maybe we should ask Gary, what's a nice Jewish boy from Long Island doing in an organization like Humanitad???
Joyce
So we don't get stuck on Gary, I'd like to post the resume of Gary Nelson who is another member of Humanitad. One of the founders of Princeton's Global Consciousness Project:
http://www.princeton.edu/~rdnelson/
Joyce
Here is another one of Humanitad's leaders:
Rabia Elizabeth Roberts, Ed.D., is a peaceworker, women’s advocate, and senior teacher in the Sufi Way, as well as a practitioner and scholar of Buddhist teachings. She has served on peace teams with Elias in Nicaragua, Burma and most recently Iraq. In 2002 she was elected to the Governing Board of the global Nonviolent Peaceforce and serves on its executive committee.
A trained wilderness rites–of–passage guide she uses a pan-cultural approach to personal transformation and wilderness experience. She helped to found the Institute for Deep Ecology, the Environmental Leadership Department at Naropa University, and the Spirit in Education Movement (SEM) in Thailand. She has taught philosophy and social advocacy at Harvard and Marquette Universities and written books and articles on prayer, mysticism, and social action.
Bernard lieter, also on their Board is the co-creator of the Euro, without which the European Union would not be the European Union:
http://www.lietaer.com/
Here are his other credentials:
Co-Creator & Key Architect of the EURO)
World Renowned Economist and Currency Expert
Founding Member of the Global Futures Forum
Fellow at the World Academy of Arts & Sciences and of the World Business Academy
Member of the Club of Rome
Author & Lecturer
You can look up the rest of them yourselves if you are interested, but that gives you an idea of who is behind Humanitad, particularly Robert Muller, and open proponent of Alice Bailey.
Here's Hannah Newman, an Orthodox Jew's excellent online book the "Rainbow Swastika" for those who have never read it:
http://philologos.org/__eb-trs/naH.htm
http://tiny.cc/tFhBa
I'm sure that Dorothy posted this at some point in the past, but maybe not all of you are familiar with it..
Joyce
We find Humanitad on this website:
http://www.globalimpactforum.org/
http://www.globalimpactforum.org/coordination.php
http://tiny.cc/4A62U
and is this organization:
http://www.gsinstitute.org/gsi/who.html
http://tiny.cc/eHONm
Jonathan Granoff is a member of Ervin Laszlo's
World Wisdom Council.. It seems all roads lead back to Laszlo.
He's also part of Global Dialogue Insitute.
and you might also want to take a look at Peace Channel found on Global Impact Institute's website:
http://www.peacechannel.tv/
Here's Clinton on Peace Channel about Israel:
http://tiny.cc/jL7En
(you remember, when he was trying to make his personal problems disappear from the public consciousness)
Joyce
Of course we see Laszlo's direct influence in this organization:
http://www.globalimpactforum.org/advocates.php
http://tinyurl.com/m37k5d
Joyce
I just read an article on Worldnetdaily, arch of the covenant is about to be revealed, it's been hidden away in Ethiopia.
Wow!!
I also read an article a couple of days ago, the Euphrates river is drying up...the water level has gone down about 3/4 over the last decade....remember, the kings of the east cross this on their horses.
There are so many signs of the times from every direction, this morning my heart is encouraged.
We are nearing ever closer to that better country, even so come Lord Jesus!
Joyce,
Re:"Beware of Jews who accept Papal knighthood:
http://www.forward.com/articles/14397/
http://tiny.cc/8IbQj
There are some in the Jewish community that are not too happy about him..Let me quote them:
"Krupp said he was outraged by the decision of several Holocaust museums and scholars not to attend. “How come a schlemiel from Long Beach was able to find some material on the pope that all those PhDs can’t dig up?” he said."
"
I am MORE wary of certain so-called "Jews" and "Christians" - including apostate Catholic priests - whose agenda requires them to bear false witness against a dead pope ( i.e. Pope Pius XII) who can't defend himself and then refuse to even look at original documents and/or hear the testimonies of remaining eyewitnesses that unequivocally disprove their false accusations.
If you actually took the time to read the articles, you would have read that one of the main reasons why a "schlemiel from Long Beach" was able to find some material on Pope Pius XII that "all the Phd's can't dig up" is because the puerile little pishers pretending to be "Phd's" DON'T WANT TO DIG IT UP! DUHHH!
By the way the term "pisher" is not a flattering term either.
I don't know much about Humanitad, and whether I happen to agree or disagree with any of Humanitad's mission, Humanitad is not MY point!
Gary Krupp's tireless efforts to see to it that justice prevails over the trashing of the good name of a dead Pope who cannot defend himself IS my point.
Fortunately, I know about Gary Krupp, and am not going to allow the honorable, NON-THEOLOGICALLY ORIENTED, things he has done to be portrayed as something shameful or as part of the New Age agenda.
Given the fact that you didn't mention ANYTHING about Gary Krupp's activities - especially those that involve the debunking of the infamous "myth of Pope Pius XII" - or even the fact that Gary Krupp is Jewish - I don't blame you for not wanting to get "stuck on Gary" now that I have mentioned these serious omissions!
All you said was:" His renown as one of the world's most influential lay-persons is often highlighted in the world media, more recently as a result of his core facilitation of Pope Benedict XVI's recent trip to the United States."
Such a grievous omission speaks volumes in and of itself.
The conferring of a knighthood on Gary Krupp by Pope John Paul II and his later elevation within that order by Pope Benedict XVI is the Vatican's way of honoring Gary Krupp and saying "thank you" for a job well done - above and beyond the call of duty.
Mr. Krupp was also honored by the Protestant Queen of England!
You also said:
so there may be more going on than meets the eye. Maybe he's not such a schlemiel...if he can find 15 million worth of free equipment....but maybe there's more to his knighthood than meets the eye.
There's a whole issue of what kind of Jew would accept this papal knighthood, two at that. I would say a Jew that is a bit disconnected from the roots of what this Knighthood represents..
Mr. Krupp is only the seventh Jewish man in history to receive this honor because in general this knighthood is rarely conferred on non-Catholics. Of course when we say "seventh Jewish man in history to receive this honor" we should also keep in mind that the Order itself was established in 1831.
If anyone wants to know what Mr. Krupp's knighthood represents, read on.....
continued.....
I just came from peeking at "World Goodwill" / Lucis Trust website and their latest web offerings. Their current TWO MAJOR THEMES for a WORLD MEDITATION:
1. Earth Stewardship
2. Middle East Peace Process
Does this offering from what started life as "Lucifer Publishing Company" sound depressingly familiar, perhaps like Richard Cizik, Rick Warren, Fellowship Foundation, Au Sable Institute, etc.?
Conswtance
Thank you, Susanna, for the clarifying information on Pope Pius XII. I always found the claims that he was "the Nazi Pope" incongruous with my knowledge of the former chief Rabbi of Rome giving Pius XII credit for protecting their community. The rabbi converted and became a nearly totally impoverished Catholic convert. Also, I have suspected that Franco sheltered and saved more Jews than the USA, Great Britain and Canada combined and that it was his religious beliefs that impelled him to do so. He was also unfairly branded a Nazi sympathizer. The Simon Weisenthal Institute book on the Holocaust now gives Franco credit for rescuing many Jews who otherwise would have gone to Hitler's ovens.
Remembering that a strategy of the New Age was to pit the three target groups squarely against each other, and recognizing that "bridging" on non-theological issues works squarely against religious syncretism and the New Age agenda of Jews, Christians, and Moslems killing off each other, I will review all the evidence including your subsequent posts of which I have just finished reading and digesting the first very carefully.
Thanks!
Constance
I am, however, deeply concerned about Humanitad and I do thank Joyce for bringing it to my attention. Maybe sending a copy of Hannah Newman's THE RAINBOW SWASTIKA to Mr. Krupp would be an EXCELLENT IDEA. I'm rather inclined to presently believe, based on what Susanna presented, with an open mind and with interest. Maybe Susanna would be the logical contact person for that.
Constance
http://www.salvomag.com/new/articles/salvo7/7sillars.php
Our Smear Campaign
Congratulations, My Fellow Atheists; We Have Successfully Demonized Religion (However Speciously)
by Leslie Sillars
This is easy reading if one needs a break from the gloomy reading in the news. It was posted on the Blog of Veith.
Dear Constance,
This is a description of the knighthood that was conferred on Mr. Krupp.
THE PONTIFICAL EQUESTRIAN ORDER OF SAINT GREGORY THE GREAT
The Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great was established on September 1, 1831 by Pope Gregory XVI, seven months after his election.
It is one of the five pontifical orders of knighthood in the Catholic Church. The order is bestowed on Catholic men and women (and in rare cases, non-Catholic men[1]) in recognition of their service to the Church, unusual labors, support of the Holy See, and the good example set in their communities and country.
The Order has four classes in civil and military divisions:
Knight / Dame Grand Cross of the First Class (GCSG / DCSG)
Knight / Dame Commander with Star (KC*SG / DC*SG)
Knight / Dame Commander (KCSG / DCSG)
Knight / Dame (KSG / DSG)
Its motto is Pro Deo et Principe.
The inaugural brief states, in part, that "gentlemen of proven loyalty to the Holy See who, by reason of their nobility of birth and the renown of their deeds or the degree of their munificence, are deemed worthy to be honoured by a public expression of esteem on the part of the Holy See". The end of the brief states that they must progressively maintain, by continued meritorious deed, the reputation and trust they had already inspired, and prove themselves worthy of the honour that had been conferred on them, by unswerving fidelity to God and to the sovereign Pontiff.
This honor has no particular obligations to the Church, except for the general ones stated above.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_St._Gregory_the_Great
Needless to say, for a non-Catholic, "unswerving fidelity to God and to the sovereign Pontiff" would NOT include obeying the Pope in matters of faith and morals. Otherwise a non-Catholic would not be eligible to receive such an honor from the Pope in the first place.
At the end of the day, another thing that occurs to me with regard to "peace and justice" organizations in general is what you so often (rightly) tell us about "keeping the wheat and leaving the chaff" when investigating these organizations in order to learn about any occult/New Age involvement which I unequivocally condemn!!!
Even the Bible tells us that God allows the "weeds" to grow up alongside the "wheat" - and that God's reason for not destroying all the "weeds" is because the "wheat" might also be damaged and/or destroyed in the process.
For me, this does not mean that a "weed" is any less a "weed." But neither does it mean that a stalk of "wheat" is any less a stalk of "wheat" merely for having grown alongside a "weed."
I am sure that anyone with a lick of common sense is only too well aware that many of these "peace-nik" organizations are not all "wheat." Perhaps Humanitad is one of them. I honestly admit I do not know anything about it. But for me that doesn't change the fact that in terms of justice and morality, Gary Krupp's debunking the "Myth of Pope Pius XII" is a "stalk of wheat."
But while it is unreasonable to assume that "all is wheat," we also need to avoid the opposite extreme of writing everything off as "chaff."
As for Gary Krupp, I intend to be "stuck on Gary" for as long I feel I need to be. The original documents he has posted are a glaring revelation of the injustice that has been perpetrated against the late Pope Pius XII. And stay tuned. There is more to come.
FYI: Mark Sandford is a fellowship member.
http://tinyurl.com/kr3kdj
Constance,
P.S.
By the way, another recent research subject of mine has to do with a related myth being currently debunked having to do with allegations concerning the "dastardly Vatican's" refusal to return "baptised" Jewish orphans to their Jewish families.
The truth is that it was the official policy of the Vatican NOT TO ALLOW JEWISH CHILDEN TO BE BAPTIZED. Those Catholic priests and/or laymen who did baptise Jewish children were disobeying a papal directive, and even if Jewish children were baptised, they were to be returned to their families if the people claiming the children could PROVE that they were family and/or had a legal right to take custody of these children.
The Vatican had to be very careful at the very end of the war that so-called "Jewish" organizations claiming Jewish children were not merely fronts for something more sinister (i.e. underground Nazi groups looking to murder more Jews).
HIDING THE TRUTH ABOUT HIDDEN CHILDREN
http://tinyurl.com/njp6gd
____________________________
JEWISH ORPHANS CONTROVERSY
http://en.wikipedia.org/
wiki/Jewish_orphans_controversy
___________________________
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE HOLOCAUST
http://tinyurl.com/nlbwul
____________________________
HOLOCAUST STUDIES PROF.UNRAVELS MYSTERY BEHIND CONTROVERSIAL VATICAN DOCUMENT
http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/article.cfm?id=7067
_____________________________
HIDIND JEWISH CHILDREN DURING WORLD WAR II: THE PSYCHOLOGICAL AFTERMATH
http://tinyurl.com/lx3a35
_______________________________
1946 DOCUMENT ON JEWISH CHILDREN TELLS A DIFFERENT STORY (1/12/2005)
http://www.zenit.org/article-11957?l=english
Mr. Kincaid's articles over the past few months have been excellent - driving home many items that should not go overlooked.
DouginMI
Susanna,
I wasn't trying to make Gary Krupp the point of my discussion, but personally, since you bring it up, I believe that God gave the Land to Israel and I am troubled at his efforts to give away the room where supposedly the Yeshua ate His last meal with His disciples to the Catholic Church.
As a Jew, who believes that God's promises to Israel ( not just the Jews but all Israel) are to possess the Land, I have a problem with donating any of it to anyone, and particularly land on Mt. Zion. The Abrahamic promise, which was passed to Jacob/Israel goes like this:
Gen. 48:3-4 Then Jacob said to Joseph, “God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me, and He said to me, ‘Behold, I will make you fruitful and numerous, and I will make you a company of peoples, and will give this land to your descendants after you for aan everlasting possession.’
When I read "everlasting" ( olam in Hebrew) I take it literally. Now, who Jacob's descendant's are is a very interesting and long question, which would exceed the allotted 4500 or so words..
Archeologically, it is very doubtful that Yeshua ate at that site before becoming the Passover Lamb, but that's another discussion for another day..
In spite of all of Gary's "good efforts" I have question marks about Pope Pius XII, but I don't feel like getting into a controversy with you on the blog about that. That's not the point of my remarks about Gary. I was pointing him out because of his interfaith efforts, among others in the organization who I pointed out, all which make up part of the UN MDGs.. His credentials were particularly interesting to me, so I listed them.
I also understand that Gary was trying to make a trade, the upper room where Yeshua ate with His disciples against the writings which the Vatican holds by Maimonides, a famous 12th Century rabbi.
I understand that the Catholic Church holds many items that the Jews consider to be theirs, some from the destruction of the Temple, so there are many sensitive points between Jews and the Vatican, but that again is another subject.
Personally, I don't think there is much of a comparison between Land on Mt. Zion and writings of a 12th century rabbi, no matter how famous he was and how historically interesting his writings are.. The Land is God given and Maimonides was a rabbi. I'm very aware of Gary's supposedly non-religious motives and his pragmatism, but when you are talking land.. you are talking Torah..so it's very spiritual.
Fortunately, I know Yeshua will come and straighten out all the real estate problems, so I'm not worried, but it's a little disconcerting to see a Jew who doesn't understand this.. He's not alone in this, I assure you. There are many Jews today willing to sell their birthright for a bowl of lentils ( or some scrolls from a 12th Century rabbi).
From a realistic political perspective, short of Yeshua's coming the problem will not be solved. The Armenians have a piece of the Old City, the Christian Orthodox, the Catholics, the PLO, and the Jews and none of them are planning to leave anytime soon.
Just to give you some insight into the archeological issues, here's an interesting article that describes more or less what I was trying to say:
http://www.myrova.com/index.php?/content/view/134/47/
http://tiny.cc/DXWT5
That's off topic too...but it's interesting.
My real focus is Humitad, and UN's multi-faceted approach to pushing MDGs..
I encourage you to take a careful look at the site and see what they're about. It's Tower of Babel building at its very best ( or worst depending on your perspective).
I'll let God judge Gary, and his involvement with the organization...He may sincerely be blind, but if he would read his Torah, he wouldn't be doing some of the things he's doing, and I'll leave it there.
Joyce
We Brits suffered an unprecedented loss of legal freedoms under Tony Blair and I welcome any move that keeps him away from political power.
Gospeller
Susanna,
Here's the link again
http://tinyurl.com/mq5o94
And Joyce even, the Israeli ambassador to the Vatican denies that the Vatican has Jewish valuable items with them. See the link for the interview. BTW, the upper room was already Catholic/Orthodox property, so a deal would have to be made between these two groups. There are no Protestant churches in the Holy Land, only Catholic/Orthodox churches.
I have an archive of WW2 newspapers, the Pope and the church fought very hard against the Nazi regime, I could post them, but why bother, with someone who's only interested in slandering the Catholic Church at every opportunity she gets.
Savvy
The New York Times WW2 Archives
Italian Politicians scold Catholic Church: Ask Why Prelates have so much sympathy for Jews
http://tinyurl.com/m7a9d9
Gobbels Lashes out at Catholic Church
http://tinyurl.com/nwjwp3
Hilter angered by Vatican Note
http://tinyurl.com/lcpt87
Hitler or Vatican: Nazi Organ Warns
http://tinyurl.com/losqkf
Hilter wars on Catholics
http://tinyurl.com/luwagp
P.S. These are just a few of the 100's of World War 2 articles I have. I will be posting the archives on the website Catholics For Israel, in a few weeks to come. I let people know when I do.
Savvy
Joyce,
No... you don't want to get into a controversy about Pope Pius XII with me because the vast amount of documentation in defense of Pope Pius XII is such that those who have tried to refute it and/or ignore it have already wound up with egg on their faces big time.
If you didn't want to make Gary Krupp the point of your discussion, then perhaps you shouldn't have mentioned him at all instead of selectively posting ONLY negative - sounding biographical data about Mr.Krupp.
As it is, whether you intended to do so or not, you appear to have been trying once more to give the Catholic Church and Pope Pius XII another black eye by discrediting Gary Krupp "through the back door," so to speak, and got caught with your pants down!!!
As for the "upper room" negotiations, here is the lowdown from a 2005 article in case anyone doesn't know what you are talking about:
Krupp's next project is to try to help get negotiations between the Holy See and the State of Israel back on track. He's a good friend of both Franciscan Fr. David Jaeger, a principal negotiator for the Holy See with the Israelis, and Oded Ben-Hur, the Israeli ambassador to the Holy See. Krupp said he hopes he can mobilize American Jewish support to galvanize Israel's government to bring the talks to a swift conclusion.
One specific goodwill gesture he intends to urge upon the Israelis is the return of the Shrine of the Cenacle, the location where Christian tradition holds that Christ instituted the Eucharist, to the Franciscans who lost it under the Ottomans in 1551 and have been trying to reclaim it ever since. Since 1967, it has been the property of the Israeli government, entrusted to the Ministry for Worship. The building, which is regarded as the first seat of the newborn church, is also an object of pilgrimage for Jews, as they believe that King David is buried there. The room where tradition holds that Jesus washed his disciples' feet today is a synagogue. In the past, it was also used for worship by Muslims. The cloister leading to the second floor, where the cenacle is located, at present is used as a museum of the Holocaust and a rabbinical school....
http://www.nationalcatholic
reporter.org/word/word012005.htm
The Huffington Post has an article comparing religious Christians to the Mullahs in Iran, and telling everyone how they should beware of us. I hate to think what these Christian-haters would do to the Christians if they were to seize power.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/the-real-lesson-of-iran_b_218359.html
Savvy
Susanna,
I think you're going a little off topic, so I'd like to bring it back to what I was sharing..and why just to clarify Gary was highlighted because of his interfaith affiliations.
Interfaith gestures and activities to prove that one is a "peacemaker" may look nice, but never get to the heart of the issue.
By the way, Gary besides being knighted twice by the Vatican got an Al Aqsa fatwa from the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, so he's the perfect example of the interfaith movement trying to "unite" everyone.
His logo is "Embrace the Similarities and Savor the Differences".. Excuse me, but that's bad theology, for a Jew or a Christian. This is why I focused on him.
It reminds me exactly of what Karen Armstrong said in the video that Rich Peterson posted on his blog.
Krupp is falling into the UN Millennial Development Goal deception, as is Warren, Tony Blair, and numerous other figures out there that may even do some things that sound good. Therein lies the deception.. they sound good, but what are we really told to do in Scripture? What is the only source of true peace and reconciliation?
Separating wheat is not about doing good deeds.. Only the truth will set people free. The truth is Yeshua and His Word, the Scriptures.. Many thousands of organizations are trying to find ways to save the planet, promote peace, control the climate, etc., etc. but they are doing it apart from the truth of Scripture and they are trying to build Babel.
The organization that Gary Krupp is associated with is trying to build Babel and if you would read their website you would learn how:
You should go to the link and read yourself, but I'll paste part so you can see their "Monument to Humanity"
Outline
A seven level stepped pyramid structure adorned by a large sphere. Each of the four faces will accommodate a flank of 70 steps rising from the base to the seventh level.
The seven lower steps will arise from triangular protruding base tiers. From aerial perspective the structure will assume the shape of the well documented ‘breath of Allah the compassionate’ geometric shape. The structure will be built with local sandstone.
193 free-standing sandstone blocks ( one representing each of the world nations) will be situated equidistantly around each of the six levels.
The seventh level platform will house four sandstone blocks (one at each of the platform corners) - each of which will depict in base relief the twelve ray sun symbol (Humanitad; symbol of universal tolerance).
The sphere, measuring approximately 20 - 25ft in diameter will appear as though it is suspended in the air.*
Options for creating this optical illusion are as follows:
MAGNETIC SUSPENSION
HYDRO GLASS SUSPENSION
PLASMA AND LAMINATED GLASS TECHNOLOGY
COMPRESSED AIR/GLASS WIRE SUSPENSION
GLASS WIRE SUSPENSION
Poster
Now if Gary knew his Torah, he would know that God delivered his people from slavery in Egypt, and God did not do that so he could participate in high-tech pyramid building.
Cont'd
Cont'd
Look at the picture on the link. It's as occult as you get:
http://www.humanitad.org/programs/m2m/
http://tiny.cc/JWYed
http://www.humanitad.org/programs/m2m/images/
http://tiny.cc/8X6HO
In Egypt they worshipped the sun god, Ra, and Humanitad's logo is the 12 ray sun.
This is what Humanitad is all about, and Gary Krupp is part of it:
Gen. 11:4 They said, “Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top awill reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.”
and look again what the 7 lower steps of the pyramid represent according to Humanitad:
"The seven lower steps will arise from triangular protruding base tiers. From aerial perspective the structure will assume the shape of the well documented ‘breath of Allah the compassionate’ geometric shape. The structure will be built with local sandstone."
Humanitad wouldn't be the first ones to try to build something that reaches the sky to be gods.
To quote Jeremiah:
Jer. 6:14 “They have healed the brokenness of My people superficially, Saying, ‘Peace, peace,’
But there is no peace.
and a few verses later he says:
Jer. 6:16 Thus says the LORD,
“Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’
Joyce
Joyce,
Other than having a really hotshot website complete with all of the buzzwords, letterhead and a list of advocates and contributors (which means little), I still don't see the importance of humanitad. What is the history of their staff?
How does it compare with an organization like ACORN which has a real impact?
Is there anyone on their staff like Rathke from ACORN who is going around the world, who has set up many organizations, is powerfully politically connected, and works with tons of money?
I don't think that there is anyone who reads Cumbey that doesn't know how to work their way through a website and who can't work the links.
No one else is commenting on Humanitad, so it rests on you to analyze the bulk of the website and present a serious analysis of what you find.
I don't think your saying you lack time is a valid excuse. If you have time to post all of the links you can find on one website, you have the time to analyze the bulk of the presentation.
If I'm wrong and others have privately analyzed the humanitad website, please share that information with the rest of us.
If you believe you are just presenting information for Constance to evaluate, why not use an email?
If you have difficulty analyzing information, do use Susanna as a role model.
Dorothy
Joyce,
Gary Krupp is the perfect example of an authentically Jewish layperson who can make interfaith gestures without demanding that "conversion" be a condition of such gestures.
He has made it very clear that his Pave the Way Foundation is not about converting people. It is about removing non-theological obstacles between religions.
Of course I can see how the gestures made by a genuinely Jewish person like Gary Krupp towards the Catholic Church might be perceived by Christians claiming to be "Jews" (a.k.a."Messianics")as interfering with their own hidden agenda which, among other things, involves assimilating Jews and taking over Israel themselves.
In that respect, I don't really think I am "off topic."
I do find it amusing that a person who isn't Catholic or Jewish (having coverted out) feels they should tell Catholics and Jews how they should behave or how they should act toward each other.
Dorothy
Another comment to you Joyce.
In your writings you freely make suppositions about any and all organizations and individuals, including what is in the minds of everyone you disagree with. You don't care if you bear false witness, a commandment that is to be followed by Jews and Christians.
Very few poeple other than the ones are in the leadership of the New Age movement and those who have followed the build up of the New Age movement as a result of what Constance has written are aware of what is occurring.
I see nothing that tells me that the Messianic movement is more aware of the New Age movement than any other group of people. Where on Messianic websites are you sharing your views? Are you making Messianics aware of the New Age movement? You could really do a lot of good there by introducing a whole new audience to the information. Where have you referred Messianics to this website? Where can I find your posts on line? You want to keep private? Well then where are the other Messianics who post accurate information on the New Age movement? Refer us to their writings. Don't give me the line that you personally tell people. You know how to research. You know how to post. If what we found about you is correct, you are certainly in a position to inform a large segment of the Messianic community.
The fact is that because of so many people like you, very few people know about the scope of the movement. You can't blame them if they don't know. You can't accuse them of being part of some large conspiracy because their names appears on a website. It might make you feel important to post what you have, but it doesn't mean they have researched the occult, paganism, both parts of the New Age movement.
Let me make a suggestion. You can find email addresses for the people you condemn. They are not anonymous like you. Inform them of what you are going to accuse them of.
Constance is a public figure. She has written about the New Age movement publicly. She accuses people far less than you do.
Dorothy
Please repeat former information given on Institute of Noetic Sciences.
My counselor (whom I have had because of grief, etc.) wants me to read a book by Bruce Lipton, Ph.D. on changing your body through your mind. He is or has been on the counseling board of Institute of Noetic Sciences. He thinks we can change our genes by reprogramming our subconscious mind's "programs" from early infancy, that is, giving the subconscious mind new programs rather than trying to mull over harmful old programs from childhood.
Well, sounds like not a bad idea, although I am certain we can't actually change genes, although God could. However, sounds New Age. Sigh, all good things have this itty bitty insect flying about trying to find a place to lay an egg. More sighs.
Mariel
Any Messianic congregation I have attended has been more aware of the New Age than the average Christian congregation. Needless to say, there may be some Messianic congregations who are NOT aware. I have attended two Messianic congregations, even though I have not solely attended these to the exclusion of churches. at this time, my messianic congregation is becoming the only "church" I can attend because my church-church has put in two sources of chemicals which make me sick. End of church-church, 5th such end.
Mariel
Dear Mariel,
DEFINITELY New Age!
Here is some general information on the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
INSTITUTE OF NOETIC SCIENCES
http://en.wikipedia.org/
wiki/Institute_of_Noetic_Sciences
________________________________
Criticism
Research supported by the Institute of Noetic Sciences has been criticized as lacking in strict "peer-reviewed empiricism." In an article that critiqued the New Age movement's detachment from the mainstream scientific community, Thomas W. Clark, founder of the Center for Naturalism, referenced work supported by the Institute as suffering from "what humanist philosopher Paul Kurtz calls the 'transcendental temptation' [that] drives the flight from standard, peer-reviewed empiricism into the arms of a dualism that privileges the mental over the physical, the teleological over the non-purposive."....
http://www.answers.com/
topic/institute-of-noetic-sciences
________________________________
This one really creeps me out. It is an IONS intuition research project disguised as a game.
IONS Psi Arcade
http://www.psiarcade.com/main.html
_______________________________
IONS is also discussed by Constance in her article entitled
"THE FAMILY" AND ITS HIJACKING OF EVANGELICALISM - Part 1
http://www.newswithviews.
com/Cumbey/constance22.htm
________________________________
"THE FAMILY" AND ITS HIJACKING OF EVANGELICALISM - Part 2
http://www.newswithviews.
com/Cumbey/constance23.htm
_________________________________
"THE FAMILY" AND ITS HIJACKING OF EVANGELICALISM - Part 3
http://www.newswithviews.
com/Cumbey/constance124.htm
_________________________________
"THE FAMILY" AND ITS HIJACKING OF EVANGELICALISM - Part 4
http://www.newswithviews.
com/Cumbey/constance125.htm
_________________________________
"THE FAMILY" AND ITS HIJACKING OF EVANGELICALISM - Part 5
http://www.newswithviews.
com/Cumbey/constance126.htm
_________________________________
Mariel,
P.S.
Here is Bruce Lipton on Youtube presenting what appears to me to be a biological variation on the New Age theme of "creating your own reality."
I will leave it to you and the other readers to decide whether or not this is occult/New Age.
_________________________________
Bruce Lipton - Biology of Perception 1 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLZ7GqWpEqM
_________________________________
Bruce Lipton - Biology of Perception 2 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuJdVdArDgc&feature=related
_________________________________
Bruce Lipton - Biology of Perception 4 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0iU_QcU4o4&feature=related
_________________________________
Bruce Lipton - Biology of Perception 4 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy3arcY0KlQ&feature=related
_________________________________
Bruce Lipton - Biology of Perception 5 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-jh9UCy1Fk&feature=related
_________________________________
Bruce Lipton - Biology of Perception 6 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFO741MrkIU&feature=related
_________________________________
Bruce Lipton - Biology of Perception 7 of 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFO741MrkIU&feature=related
Mariel,
"Been more aware" is very vague. It says nothing about the details of the movement that could be shared.
I would like to know if there are Messianic websites discussing the New Age movement where Joyce posts. I've never seen any. With all of the time she puts in here, she has time to post to Messianic websites.
If you want to know more about the Institute of Noetic Sciences, go a web search. You'll find much information starting with
http://www.noetic.org/
http://www.ionsconference.org/2009/BruceLipton
and finally there are a lot of websites if you put the words "Bruce Lipton quack" into a search.
Dorothy
Mariel,
Wayne Dyer writes the same kind of thing, that you can change your life just by changing your thinking.
It is just a takeoff on the old sign that people would put up.
IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR IF YOU THINK YOU CAN'T, YOU'RE RIGHT.
Or said another way, "I can make a million dollars if I concentrate on making a million dollars. If I say I will never make a million dollars, I will lose a chance to make a million dollars."
If you buy the book or take the seminar, it's all all your fault if you don't make the million. You didn't program yourself correctly. The guy who sells the book makes the million dollars.
Dorothy
Dorothy, I told the counselor I would not buy the book because I spend all my money on the dentist. But I did find an interview on the web, hour-long one, in which Lipton discussed his book. It did not sound right to me, and yet, I do think we have programs from childhood which we might possibly eradicate just by inserting a new "disc". Not a bad idea. But that does not mean you can cure a genetic disease that way...there is a difference between curing a disease and curing one's attitudes. The counselor is pretty insistent that Lipton is not in the same category as The Tao of Physics, and that sort of thing. She is impressed with physicists, probably having a number of them as patients because of where we live, and she is into quantum physics.
Dorothy, the Messianics I now know are quite contemptuous of all New Age things. Probably do not research them to the extent we do here...most of you have done more research than I have, even though I "lived" the New Age and wrote about it myself. No, they are not as expert on this subject as anyone here.
Mariel
One more comment: thanks for the URL's et al. I started my search with Dorothy's suggestion to google
Bruce Lipton, Quack. I got to Richard Dawkins.com This is one of the funniest blogs I have ever read in my life. I signed up for it, even though not a Dawkins' fan, to read the further comments by the biologist on there. I will try to type in the URL's even though I usually fail at such attempts.
Mariel
Jaclyn,
Just realized what you were referring to when I saw this:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102119
http://tiny.cc/r7qd0
If the ark was found in Ethiopia that would give cause to rebuild a Temple? Hmmm.
More interesting is that Heinrich Eliyahu Benedikt of Jerusalem Academy was in Ethiopia this year:
http://www.jerusalem-academy.org/pageID_7326909.html
http://tiny.cc/ZW232
http://tiny.cc/JY0EW
Read the report carefully..
Joyce
Thanks Jaclyn for bringing that to our attention. I got something else in my inbox on the subject and it's not only World Net Daily, but other news services..
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132067
http://tiny.cc/KOwQs
for those who are interested:
Abuna Pauolos, Patriarch of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, was in Rome this week to meet with Pope Benedict XVI. While there, he told reporters that the time had come to reveal before the world the Holy Ark. He said that the holy container has been in the custody of his church for hundreds of years.
Paulous said he would make the full announcement this Friday, June 26, 2 PM local time (3 PM Israel time, 8 AM New York time) at a press conference in Rome.
Joyce
not sure that would really be the ark, worth staying tuned. ONe persons thoughts http://tinyurl.com/lry4yg
6/26/2009
FREE SPEECH ATTACK: Maine Fines Group for ‘Inflammatory Anti-Muslim Message’
A flagrant, blatant violation of the first amendment. Freedom of speech in the age of jihad.
Maine Fines Group for ‘Inflammatory Anti-Muslim Message’ Patrick Poole
An organization in the national spotlight recently for producing a documentary identifying several dozen potential terrorist training compounds in the U.S. has offended the sensibilities of Maine bureaucrats, who have fined the organization $4,000, alleging among other things that the group sent out mailings containing an “inflammatory anti-Muslim message.”
The group in question, the Christian Action Network (CAN), received notice of the fines and the fundraising ban in a May 6 letter from Elaine Thibodeau of the State of Maine’s Department of Professional and Financial Regulation. Enclosed in the letter was a prepared consent agreement for CAN to sign agreeing to all of the state’s allegations, waiving all rights to appeal, and agreeing to pay the $4,000 fine. As part of the consent agreement, CAN is required to agree to all of the state’s allegations, including their assertion that their mailing amounted to hate speech.
“These bogus charges and fines the State of Maine has imposed are nothing but an attempt to stifle our free speech and silence our organization from speaking out about the steady creep of radical Islam in America,” CAN president Martin Mawyer told Pajamas Media. “We fully intend to appeal the state’s penalties because if they successfully silence us here, we will quickly find that we won’t be able to speak out anywhere.”
CAN was in the news earlier this year following the release of their documentary, Homegrown Jihad, which details dozens of compounds across the U.S. operated by Pakistani Sheikh Mubarak Gilani, who has previously been identified in State Department reports as a terrorist leader, and his group, Jamaat al-Fuqra. The documentary looks into the past terrorist acts of the group in the U.S., including the assassination of two moderate Muslim leaders, the firebombing of non-Muslim religious facilities, and an investigation by Colorado authorities that led to convictions and lengthy prison sentences. These activities have been covered in several FBI domestic terrorism reports and a more recent assessment by the Center for Policing Terrorism. Other prominent convicted terrorists, including “shoe-bomber” Richard Reid, D.C. Beltway sniper John Allen Muhammad, and NYC landmarks bomb plotter Clement Rodney Hampton-El, have been identified as former members.
But what has Maine bureaucrats roiling is a fundraising mailing sent by CAN (a copy of which was provided to Pajamas Media) regarding a public school curriculum used in California requiring students to pray to Allah, dress up as Muslims, adopt Muslim names, and learn the five pillars of Islam. Since Christians and Jews are not given similar accommodations, CAN encouraged their supporters to send a petition to Maine Gov. John Baldacci asking him to prevent such instruction in Maine public schools.
Posted by Pamela Geller on Thursday, June 25, 2009 at 02:59 PM in Free Speech Silenced, FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN THE AGE OF JIHAD
This from the Wikipedia article on Felipe Gonzalez -- check it against expectations of mid-2010 events!!!!
After the presidency
González ended his second term on 4 May 1996. Since September 1996 he has headed the Madrid-based Global Progress Foundation (FPG). At the beginning of the 34th PSOE National Congress on 20 June 1997 he surprisingly resigned as leader of the party. He also resigned from the federal executive committee, though retaining his seat in the Congress. With no clear successor he continued to exert an enormous influence over the party. He was only replaced at the 35th party Congress in July 2000 when José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero became the leader.
In 1999 González was put in charge of the party's Global Progress Commission in response to globalisation. The Commission's report formed the basis of the closing declaration of the 21st Socialist International Congress on 8 November–9 1999.
He stood down as a deputy in the Spanish Parliament in March 2004.
On 27 July 2007 the Spanish Government appointed him as plenipotentiary and extraordinary ambassador for the bicentenary celebrations in commemoration of the independence of Latin America. The celebrations will begin in September 2010 in Mexico.[3]
On 14 December 2007 heads of state and governments of European Union members, in a summit held in Brussels, appointed Gonzalez as chairman of a think tank on Europe's future, consisting of up to nine well-prestiged personalities,and given the task of writing a report, by June 2010, on the challenges the European Union will face from 2020 to 2030. It will also look at how to achieve a closer understanding between citizens and the Union.[4]
One of his hobbies is tending bonsai trees. During his tenure at Moncloa, he received and cultivated several of them, mostly Mediterranean species, that he later donated to the Royal Botanic Garden of Madrid.
Member of the Club of Madrid.[5][6]
Constance
Mariel, you don't have to type in a URL.
Highlight what you want to copy by holding down the the CRTL (Control) key and using the cursor going from one end of what you want to copy to the other. Stop.
Hit the CRTL key and the capital letter C.
Put the cursor (the flashing up and down line) wherever you want the highlighted information to go and
Hit CTRL capital letter V.
It appears there like magic.
Let's say you want to take http://tiny.cc/MZeJ6 and look it up.
Highlight it.
Hit CTRL + C
Open another window/page and go to the place where you put URLs.
Hit CRTL V and it appears in the new spot.
No more typing URLs.
Dorothy
capital letter C key
6/26/2009
THE NAZI PERSECUTION OF RELIGION AS A WAR CRIME: THE OSS’S RESPONSE
WITHIN THE NUREMBERG TRIALS PROCESS
Claire Hulme and Dr. Michael Salter
[1] The track record of both intelligence agencies and the Christian Churches in the war crimes field has attracted controversy. For example, serious allegations have been made regarding help given to suspected Nazi war criminals in the immediate post-war years by both the US Counter Intelligence Corps
in the Klaus Barbie case, 1 and Vatican officials as well as other senior Church official’s who co-operated with Nazism 2 and the fascist Ustasha movement in Croatia. 3
There exists, however, a less well-documented record of the Office of Strategic Services’ (hereinafter ‘OSS’) support for the Nuremberg prosecutors, which contributed to the recognition that the Christian Churches were amongst the early victims of Nazi war criminality.
http://tinyurl.com/mus78l
6/26/2009
A shlemiel is the one who spills the soup. A shlamazel is the one who gets spilled on.
The timing and circumstances of this "revelation" of the ark are very interesting but also suspicious, I will post the link from and article but want to highlight two paragraphs, which connects all the themes in the blog, Krupp, Humanitad, Gonzales, etc..and why the timing of this is so interesting:
"The official announcement that the Etopia give the world the keys to the secret part of the millennium, will be given next Friday during a press conference at the Hotel Aldrovandi 14 Rome from the Orthodox Patriarch of Ethiopia, along with Prince Aklile Berhan Makonnen Haile Selassie, and the Duke Amedeo D'Aosta, which will be in Rome tomorrow morning.
The Patriarch of the ancient Ethiopian Orthodox Church has wanted to be at his side in this adventure, the grandson of the Negus, head of an important family, whose role is recognized both in Ethiopia and abroad. Prince heir who two years ago managed to reconcile the Christian and Muslim factions at the center in Ethiopia for a hard contrast."
How very interesting. No wonder Heinrich Eliyahu Benedikt of Jerusalem Academy and Club of Budapest paid them a visit.. It fits his agenda too..
Here we find the themes we have been discussing about Gonzalez, Humanitad, Krupp, Benedikt, and Benedict, Obama, Blair, Warren, Armstrong, AoC, URI, UN, EU, US etc,etc.. all converging..excuse the New Agey terminology.
Here's the article:
http://nazret.com/blog/index.php?title=ethiopia_ark_of_the_covenant_about_to_be_1&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
http://tiny.cc/voViW
Speaking of Yiddish and holy objects, you have to be meshugeneh ( crazy) to not recognize the handwriting on the wall, speaking of prophecy...
Dan. 5:2 When Belshazzar tasted the wine, he gave orders to bring the gold and silver vessels which Nebuchadnezzar his father had taken out of the temple which was in Jerusalem, so that the king and his nobles, his wives and his concubines might drink from them.
Dan. 5:5 Suddenly the fingers of a man’s hand emerged and began writing opposite the lampstand on the plaster of the wall of the king’s palace, and the king saw the back of the hand that did the writing.
Dan. 5:22-23 “Yet you, his son, Belshazzar, have not humbled your heart, even though you knew all this, but you have aexalted yourself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of His house before you, and you and your nobles, your wives and your concubines have been drinking wine from them; and you have praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood and stone, which do not see, hear or understand. But the God in whose hand are your life-breath and all your ways, you have not glorified.
While Daniel was speaking about the fall of an ancient empire, might we not apply this today to the world system that seeks to exalt itself above God? I don't know whether the real ark of the covenant is hidden or will be revealed in Rome, but I know there is one that will descend from the heavens...
cont'd
cont'd
Jer. 3:16-17 “It shall be in those days when you are multiplied and increased in the land,” declares the LORD, “they will ano longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ And it will not come to mind, nor will they remember it, nor will they miss it, nor will it be made again. “At that time they will call Jerusalem ‘The Throne of the LORD,’ and ball the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem, for the name of the LORD; nor will they walk anymore after the stubbornness of their evil heart.
Rev. 11:19 And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple, and there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm.
If this is the genuine ark and not a hoax, one who knows their Bible would be very reluctant to take liberties with it, and bring it to Rome, unless one is seeking to unite the religions..?
Num. 4:5-6 “When the camp sets out, Aaron and his sons shall go in and they shall take down athe veil of the screen and cover the ark of the testimony with it; and they shall lay a covering of porpoise skin on it, and shall spread over it a cloth of pure blue, and shall insert its poles.
Num. 4:16 “The responsibility of Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest is athe oil for the light and the bfragrant incense and cthe continual grain offering and dthe anointing oil — the responsibility of all the 1tabernacle and of all that is in it, with the sanctuary and its furnishings.”
Num. 4:19-20 “But do this to them that they may live and anot die when they approach the most holy objects: Aaron and his sons shall go in and assign each of them to his work and to his load;
but they shall not go in to see the holy objects even for a moment, or they will die.”
Joyce
So we should dismiss new research on Pius Twelve because the researcher has the wrong credentials....??? I follow this blog regularly with interest and enthusiasm but I'm beginning to think that folk are are just a trifle OT in their efforts to turn all works for peace and reconciliation into a satanic plot...my understanding is that the Soviets and some of their fellow travelers were instrumental in painting Pius the Twelfth with the Hitlerian brush as well as planting false evidence and did so precisely because of their fear of the Catholic church [a fear which in the end was grounded as I recall].....
Joyce is right. All religious people should be suspicious of each other. Let's start with being suspicious of all Messianic Jews. Just why has this lady come here to turn us against each other?
The Ark is just another religious artifact. While it is interesting that it is surfacing, it is not going to change Jews, Christians, New Agers, pagans, or any other group of believers. It is something material. It has nothing to do with morality, the heart of religion.
What can possibly occur? New Agers dancing around the Ark? All religions joining together in prayer around the Ark, agreeing that all religions are the same?
Let's see if your prophecying will come about Joyce. We will be able to tell if you are a false prophet. Let's see if it leads to the unifying of all religions. If not, you are a false prophet. You certainly keep talking about the things that certainly will come about, like most cult leaders.
Dorothy
I decided to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldbeg. I had avoided it thinking it was just another of those political books that chew the same cud.
It really is quite good in being a lead-in to serious search on the New Age movement. Many of the things we've read about when doing serious research appear there without the New Age label. There is one chapter with a New Age title.
The book has sold quite well, and he guests on many shows. There are over 400 reviews of the book over at Amazon.com, including a very snotty one from the Washington Post.
Constance, you should try to get him on your show where the two minds could come together.
Dorothy
Ok .......
A shlemiel is the one who spills the soup. A shlamazel is the one who gets spilled on.
Now I know what that part of the Laverne and Shirley show songs means - thanks Len -
Dorothy,
You have a lot of anger directed at Joyce and her post really had nothing to do with that. You upset at the suggestion that the "Ark" referenced as being revealed in Ethiopia is not the genuine artifact. You refer to the speculation that it might be used to draw all into a new spiritually as promoted by the New Age?
Your thoughts on Joyce are quite clear. If your intent on returning is only to keep attacking Joyce when she posts here thoughts, you will in fact turn other people away from reading comments.
I was away from my computer till late last night, I'm just catching up on all the news. The story of the arch of the covenant looked quite legitimate to me...this is why I was so excited.
How any Christian could see this as insignificant is beyond me, there is no such thing as coincidence when you serve a Sovereign God.
We will watch and see as God's master plan unfolds before our eyes.
By the way, I agree with peacebringer7, you all need to quit snapping at each other, it's been pretty pleasant lately, please keep it that way.
So Len,
What's the difference between a putz
and a petzl ?
Never mind...
Matt. 5:9 “Blessed are the PEACEMAKERS, for athey shall be called sons of God.
7673. שׇׁבַת shabath, shaw-bath´; a primitive root; to repose, i.e. desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific):—(cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.
7965. שׇׁלוֹם shalom [1022d]; from 7999a; completeness, soundness, welfare, peace
Shabbat Shalom,
Joyce
Joyce- AMEN and AMEN!!!
JC
just a reminder
Cult leader meets Politics:
Crans Montana Forum with Heinrich Elijah Benedikt and Erdogan about EU and Mediterranian is happening right now...24.-27.June 2009
http://www.cmf.ch/
farmer
Peacebringer,
If you haven't noticed, the number of people who post here has dwindled. I am in touch with people who have posted here, and Joyce is one of the reasons they lost interest in doing that. Anything they would have posted just gets lost in the swamp of Joyce's posts. It's one of the reasons I stopped posting my information.
Joyce doesn't dialogue. She lectures continuously. She avoids questions. She ignores what she doesn't want to deal with. In the day to day world, she would be called "bossy."
Knowing Constance's support of her, people back off commenting on the board about her. Just today I received a note from a real researcher who said Joyce's postings are just distracting. They read but don't bother to post.
Maybe you can answer the questions I posted about the Ark and Humanitad. Just repeating a letterhead (you know the list of people on the stationary of an organization that lists supporters in a column on the left hand side)doesn't give any real information about an organization.
Just going Wow look at this sublink and Wow look at this sublink and saying This sublink is important on and on might be useful for someone who is absolutely new to any research, but just how helpful is it to those who have been around for years?
Somebody has to say the emperor has no clothes.
Dorothy
Bjorn,
Obama is in Europe right now, so I wonder if he'll show up. Here's a quote about him:
"The Crans Montana Forum and the White House on the same line
At the very moment of President B. H. Obama's historical address to the Arabo-Islamic World in Cairo, the Chairman of the Crans Montana Forum was the Guest of President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali at the Carthage Presidential Palace in Tunis where an important and restricted meeting took place. On this occasion, Mr. Carteron met numerous high level personalities from the Middle-East including the former Iranian President Mr. Seyed Mohammad Khatami and the Vice President of the Syrian Republic Mrs. Najah Al Attar. The Crans Montana has always been involved in the Middle-East Peace Process ans its action has been worldwide recognised and commended. Today, a new era seems possible !"
Benjamin Netanyahu is also touring Europe. Supposedly a meeting with George Mitchell was cancelled..or postponed, but it's not sure who cancelled..
I looked for news to see if the Ark of the Covenant was revealed in Rome today as announced by Arutz Sheva and World Net Daily among others.., so far a big zero..but it is interesting that Heinrich Eliyahu Benedikt met with these same folks in January 2009. He's also appearing at the World Parliment of Religions.. Busy fellow.
I mentioned earlier but will repeat, his friend Yehuda Stolov, this week, was the one who spoke about putting a Temple on Temple Mount without removing the Dome of the Rock, a plan very similar, in fact the same as Benedikt's 209 page document on Jerusalem Academy website.
The situation in Iran is likely to be a main topic of discussion. There is no way to remove the Ayatollah and his Revolutionary Guard and security forces without doing, like Iraq, short of a military coup. Now Henry Kissinger ( CFR) was calling for a regime change. If Henry is an insider and probably knows what's going on. US claims it's been minding it's own business in Iran if you can believe that...
There are certainly links in the peace discussions between the status of Iran, and it's nuclear ambitions and Israel's security. Iran is the main supplier of Hizb'allah, Syria and Hamas.. The closed door conversations probably sound different that what we hear in the press.
Many, many interesting things going on at the moment..
Joyce
As I said, Joyce doesn't dialogue. She lectures.
Thanks for the news summary. You've determined know those researching the New Age movement aren't clever enough to follow ordinary news.
Are you going to wait until Drudge gives us an analysis of the importance of humanitad?
Dorothy
Forget the Ark,, God says everyone else will... It's the Mercy seat we should be interested in!
There was news about the Ark of the Covenant last night? Every news channel I watched had only one story. For the last week or so the media was focused on Iran. And then Michael Jackson died and that was the big news. What a sad end to bizarre life.
"May there be peace on earth, and may it begin with us . . ."
Now girls, stop the fighting!
After reading some of Joyce's posts I only skim them now mostly because they are so long - but I skim for the main points and that can be helpful...
Still no one has addressed my comment so perhaps I should put it in the form of a question:
Does every action for peace and reconciliation [which does not necessarily equal religious compromise by the way]between Catholics and Jews become suspect on this forum?
People used to judge Jesus by the company he kept and their judgement turns out was extremely poor. I am wary of painting others with so broad a brush...
Anyone?
all the best
Mel
What I see growing over the last 40 years or such is not unity between the religions, but cultural, class and religious unity. People who think alike tend to group together, generally ignoring other groups rather than fighting them. These things aren't necessarily analyzed by participants.
Intelligent liberals group. Intelligent conservatives group. Upper class don't associate with lower classes. Those who take morality seriously choose friends who also think it's serious. Those who put Jesus first in their lives also tend to group.
Very few people step outside of their comfort zone. There is hardly any talking with others. A continuation of polite people don't talk religion or politics.
I don't think all of the ecumenical efforts make any changes in the life of ordinary people. It may be that those inclined to ecumenical efforts all hang out together.
For instance, if class is most important in the life of some people, upper class Catholics will be in sync with upper class Jews. Ecumenical efforts won't make upper class Jews look around for friends among lower class Baptists.
Yes, they are trying to unify the religions. It isn't working. Just because the services can't be told apart, it doesn't mean Protestants, Catholics and Jews feel comfortable in each other's religious buildings and are willing to go regularly to a service meant for all three.
With regular people and not ecumenically oriented people, experiencing other services and discussing religion is just another novel experience. It's not that there are negative feelings between the groups, they are just ignored as people go back to their comfort zones.
Aggressive missionary type people are seen negatively. Whether it's religious missionaries, economic or civil rights missionaries, they are just considered irritants. People just want them to go away and stop bothering them.
As a side note, those of us who try to do something to warn about the New Age movement are considered missionary types who others just want them to go away. It's why we have so much trouble letting others know what is going on.
Dorothy
Thanks , Dorothy for your comments In general agree with you- however I don't think all attempts at reconciliation of religious groups with histories of contention are part of the New Age goal of "unifying" religions...though certainly there are such goings on in many quarters...
I think some are in fact sincere in their desire to have peaceful relations with people of other faiths despite the very real differences that cannot be compromised...it is possible to be kind to others while at the same time disagreeing even on fundamentals - that is why I think it important to keep our eye on certain principles while we examine the information that's presented...to really think, and frankly - pray, before we give the tongue or the written word free reign ....often times we speak quickly before we have all the facts or the facts in context.
If we spend more time in prayer and less time flapping our jaws the words we do speak will be guided and have more effect. OK now I'm going to go apply that advice to myself [smile]...
with love in Christ Jesus
Mel
When talking about the news it is impossible for me to NOT see the that we have entered into a new DARK AGE of a world-view tainted with political correctness, with the news industry rife with its own agenda that has finally put a cap-stone on the anti-Christian, anti-West loathing conceptualization of humanity and society.
Obama said "Today the House of Representatives took historic action with the passage of the American Clean Energy and Security Act,"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7937737&page=1
If we spend more time in prayer and less time flapping our jaws the words we do speak will be guided and have more effect. OK now I'm going to go apply that advice to myself [smile]...
with love in Christ Jesus''
Good advice -
DouginMI
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Kind attention|: Constance, Dorothy, Joyce, Mel et al
PART ONE:
I am the founder of Humanitad. Obviously it is a little awkward for me to learn that my noble ship Humanitad is being posited as some kind of a babylonian enterprize. Obviously - I disavow that with some humour. I established it as a peace organization and have run a real gamut over the years in positioning it as well as I have been able - as a platform for neutral dialogue and exchange between nations and faiths. In fact I have even had guns at my head on a couple of occasions and suffered personal distress in my quest at learning what it is that drives the wedge between people of the world and their desire for a fulfilling, loving and meaningful life. In my view - and in light of a long journey in actually seeking this out first-hand I am inclined to feel that the wedge is indeed driven by 'special interests' motivated by esotericimperatives. That said - I also believe a great many of those who maintain this status quo do so not out of evil or malevolence but ignorance. Oftentimes an ignorance which goes hand in hand with a genuine desire to feel as though they are making something of themselves and the world in which they live. We can cite the masons, worshipful company of Ra devotees - bilderbergers - extraterrestrials (for all I care). And we would probably be right to some real extent. In final analysis does any of that matter? I am learning in life that its only through a positive individual heart & mind consciousness that we can seek redress with a world at which we are at odds - and from here learn equanimity and focus on higher ideals than stone-throwing at the maelstrom of 'agendas' and probabilities that lie outside of our reality framework. As regards Gary Krupp - I regard he and his dear wife as good friends and decent human beings. Bernard Lietaer - an exceptionally kind and noble man (who - if you had looked into the matter - you would know had resigned from Brussels shortly after creating the convergence mechanism - precisely because he saw that his creation was not going to be used to a positive end by the powers that be). Jonathan Granoff - the most motivated peacenik and anti-nuclear voice in our world at this time - I regard as a friend - despite the fact that he and I disagree entirely on many things. In meeting with religious figures across the globe I have been seeking one thing alone - and asking one question: "do you acknowledge that the religion of the human heart must now take precedence over any sectarian faith". That was my question - and the answer was always yes.
PART TWO:
I confess - only the Jewish faith, for which I have every kind regard - perhaps for reasons it knows best - did not offer support to this notion. I regard all faiths and sects as being the privilege and divine right of the devotee - to determine as a course for salvation. Personally - am not a religious man in the least - but prefer instead to love my fellowmen and the sacred res. With regards to the Monument to Mankind project it is a 'monument' to our failed past (failed in that it has brought us precisely to where there appears to be more antipathy and sectarian hatred than at anytime in history) is an arts and cultural project - no more - no less. If it had nine levels and 312 steps - you could read into it that it was some sort of occult construct. A pyramid is a shape - and an intelligent one. It holds its own through the passage of time - and is rather lovely to look at. I do indeed base some of the architecture on 'sacred geometry' the pi and golden mean. These are not occult - they are encoded in leaves and cloud formations as a resonant geometrical premise upon which natural law evolves through all life-forms. Even constellations and cellular activity is predicated on these mathematics. No bogeyman here. Reference the UN and the Millennium Goals. If you google 'sacha stone state of the world report' you will find a scathing indictment against the UN and its past record. I am no fan of it nor of the MDGs per se. I am even less a fan of those elements in our midst who have elected to co-opt the good Jewish faith (and other faiths) for economical-socio-political reasons - which in themselves do indeed smack of Babylonian Mysteries and a deep-rooted agenda with malevolent intent.
PART THREE:
I have screamed of this stuff from roof-tops for years - yet Humanitad has elected to work alongside the many thousands of good people who are working within the UN remit of meeting the goals - including the international NGO community (for whatever questionable new world order agenda they may have been engineered to fulfil - if that is your belief. The reason we work with the MDGs (NB: we are NOT accredited to the UN) is because it is THE ONLY UNIFIED script that all governments acknowledge. By railing against them - I fear the net result for the developing world would be so much the worse. In determining to work with them - whatever the flaws - we can use them as a rod to beat our governments into some sort of compliance with a consensual desire to meet the eradication of poverty & disease, the promotion of equality, education etc.. There are dark agenda run amok in the UN - for sure. I can tell you that without any qualms. But that is not the point either. So very many of the people and agencies within it are committed to working through the maze of agendas and make instead something positive emerge from it all. Remember this - the UN is made up of us - all nations and faiths - like it or not. It represents the divided & cluttered state of our world as a collective. WE need to approach this mess with an open-heart an open-mind and a loving intent. Then perhaps we can change the paradigm - and the apparatus of governance which now seeks to promote corporate and secret society agendas - more than it does human welfare. Greed is the hallmark of our status quo as a failed civilization. That is what Humanitad is tangling with. It is a task made none the easier when good folks get the wrong drift. I am more than happy to answer any questions - just please - try not to go too far down the line of citing Humanitad as some satanic construct. It is a silly notion - and off the mark. There are organizations and individuals out there who could well do with a whipping - and the brunt of your earnest and well intentioned ire - just aim straight at the target - not this decent organization made up of very diverse people with different views and opinions - all of whom I personally know to be inclined to a loving and sane world. My personal email is sachastone@mac.com - Blessings, Sacha Stone
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