Thursday, November 13, 2008


This will be an expanding story as I attempt to get more information. I have sent an email invitation for a church representative to be with us on this evening's internet radio edition of My Perspective to be broadcast live at at 8 p.m. this evening.

Lansing is Michigan's state capital. I worked there in the late 1960s, early 1970s before becoming an attorney in 1975. Over the years a fair share of my law practice has taken me there. I still have many friends who have served in the Legislature.

Since I started tracking the New Age Movement in 1981, I read pronouncements that this was one way the New Age would be "ushered in." Churches have been destined for targeting. The attacks were by termites from within and wrecking balls from without. After the New Age Movement received unexpected and unwanted exposure in the early 1980s, marginalization and ridicule of those pointing to clear New Age pronouncements was the order of the day. Reading H. B. Blavatsky, Gina Cerminara (called for burning of the churches), Alice Ann Bailey, Barbara Marx Hubbard, Peter Russell, etc., it is clear we are regarded as "cancerous cells in the global brain." It is equally clear that nothing nice was projected for Christians for the so-called "New Age."

Sunday there was a rainbow motifed anarchist operation against a Lansing, Michigan church, Mt. Hope Church. The Church biblically condemns homosexuality but offers hope for salvation and redemption from that sin as well as all other sins. They ran head on into an interior infiltration and outward picketing, bashing, and religious service disruption. It was clearly organized and it appears to be but the opening day of a prolonged "Kristallnacht" action against conservative Christians and Jews.

Here is what an unrepentant "Gay community" press had to say about Sunday's events:

Bash Back! Raises Hell at Anti-Queer Mega-Church

Monday, November 10 2008 @ 03:40 PM CST
Contributed by: Anonymous
Views: 1,889
The Mount Hope Church is a deplorable, anti-queer mega-church in Lansing, Michigan. The church works to institutionalize transphobia and homophobia through several repulsive projects including organized "ex-gay" conferences and so-called "hell houses", which depict queers, trannies and womyn who seek abortions in hell. Mt. Hope is complicit in the repression of queers in Michigan and beyond.

Bash Back! ain't down with that. And so on Sunday November 9th, about thirty radical queers from Lansing, Chicago, Memphis and Milwaukee disrupted the church's most well-attended sermon.

At noon, a small group of folks dressed in pink and black, equipped with a megaphone, black flags, picket signs and an upside-down pink cross began demonstrating outside the church. The group was extremely loud and wildly offensive.

The demonstration drew a majority of Mount Hope's security staff outside to watch them.

Meanwhile, with the guards pre-occupied by the distraction, over a dozen queers had put on their Sunday-best and infiltrated the church's congregation. At the signal that the guards had been lured outside, the infiltrators sprung into action.

A group stood up, declared themselves fags, and began screaming loudly. Upon hearing the loud interruption, other affinity groups went into action. A team that had been hiding under the pews in the closed-off balcony dropped a banner and pulled back the curtains to reveal "IT'S OKAY TO BE GAY! BASH BACK!". Another group threw over a thousand fliers to the entirety of the congregation. The fire alarm was pulled. Queers began making out in front of the pastor. And within a matter of minutes, everyone had evaded the guards and made their escapes.

Bash Back! operatives, still hidden among the congregation observed a person screaming that Satan had come to Mount Hope, that the end was here, that the queers were everywhere. She then began speaking tongues. The dumbfounded pastor, after regaining his composure, went on to speak of the of decadent, depraved wolves that menace his flock of sheep.

Let it be known: So long as bigots kill us in the streets, this pack of wolves will continue to BASH BACK!

We are everywhere.

Googling "Bash Back!" I found more than 23,000 hits with this Wikipedia entry:

Bash Back! is a network of radical, anti-authoritarian queer projects within the United States. Bash Back! seeks to critique the ideology of mainstream GLBTQ movement, which the group sees as dedicated to obtaining straight privilege by assimilation into the dominant institutions of a heteronormative society. Bash Back! chapters employ direct action to confront capitalism and all interrelated forms of oppression, especially focusing on exposing the gay mainstream and the dangers of gay assimilationism and homonormativity. Bash Back! is noticeably influenced by the anarchist movement and other radical queer groups, such as ACT UP and Gay Shame. Many within the group also draw significant inspiration from events like the Stonewall Riots and the White Night Riots.[1]

The national media has been remarkably quiet about this development. What does it mean? Last week my car was totaled by the actions of a young man attempting suicide by running and leaping directly before me. The next day a Lansing Church was under assault. This all sounds remarkably what Fr. Seraphim Rose, the Russian Orthodox priest sounding early alarms wrote of in his book, ORTHODOXY AND THE RELIGION OF THE FUTURE. Spirits of suicide and chaos are out and about!

The scriptures clearly warned us that perilous times were coming for Christians in the last days. It appears that they are now here.

Stay strong, stay tuned. I will be updating and refining this article, so refresh often!



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Anonymous said...

Constance - Do you know anyone that you could go to a car auction with. I heard that dealerships send their sales reps to the auctions since they are newer cars that have been repossessed due to the owners inability to make payments. A couple people told me one can get excellent deals while driving away in top quality cars. You would definitely want someone with you who could look at the cars you would like to bid on.

I am unsure as to whether the cars are warrantied. It is worth looking into.

Constance Cumbey said...

Any SE Michigan volunteers would be appreciated on the car auction scene. This is indeed an excellent way to get a car -- I did it once before.



Anonymous said...

I don't think my car was damaged that badly apart from the windshield and right front bumper. It is a Corolla that gets EXCELLENT mileage. I am having deep dark suspicions that the bump shops repair and resell these "totaled" cars -- I am on my way there to take pictures and document just in case . . .

Constance Cumbey said...

This is what the BASH BACK! group's which appears to be national is about tactic wise"


Members of Bash Back! must agree to:

1. Fight for liberation. Nothing more, nothing less. State recognition in the form of oppressive institutions such as marriage and militarism are not steps toward liberation but rather towards heteronormative assimilation.

2. A rejection of Capitalism, Imperialism, and all forms of State power.

3. Actively oppose oppression both in and out of the "movement." All oppressive behavior is not to be tolerated.

4. Respect a diversity of tactics in the struggle for liberation. Do not solely condemn an action on the grounds that the State deems it to be illegal.

Shock troopers of the New Age ???


Anonymous said...

I was an usher at my church for a couple years before I got involved in the music ministry. Just knowing myself as well as I do, I doubt if I would have done the "right thing" if I were confronted by these self-righteous sodomites.
I think it would be a good idea for churches to plan ahead and really expect this sort of thing in their midst in the coming days. Everyone should take note that the demonstrators had cameras and even a "reporter" in tow. What they wanted and hoped for, of course, was that someone in the congregation would react violently towards them,
but no one did, Hallelujah !
Then they would have made it to the evening news.

By the way, since Matthew Perry, which was what, twenty something years ago, has there even been one example of gay bashing anywhere that anyone has heard of ? These people should be happy about the level of tolerance they enjoy. They are NOT
abused. They are NOT picked on and they are NOT
ridiculed any more, so it's hard to understand what they want.
The bottom line is that they hate God. They hate his son Jesus and everything that goes with his kingdom on earth.
It will be a tough call for ushers and security people. We all know that violence is wrong and that God will fight our battles for us. But yelling obscenities, and attempting to desecrate the sanctuary of a church, with children around, is more than I'd be able to take, I'm sure.
Lord God, please help all security people and ushers, and even musicians, in the coming days.
In Jesus' name.

Constance Cumbey said...

I just observed that Atheist websites were applauding the Bash Back! actions against Mt. Hope Church. This article was posted approvingly on an atheist site which I found on a google search:

Bash Back! Raises Hell at Anti-Queer Mega-Church
November 11, 2008, 12:37 am
Filed under: Uncategorized | Tags: affinity group, Anti-gay church, Bash Back!, ex-gay, Mount Hope Church, Queer Action, Queers
The Mount Hope Church is a deplorable, anti-queer mega-church in
Lansing, Michigan. The church works to institutionalize transphobia and
homophobia through several repulsive projects including organized “ex-gay”
conferences and so-called “hell houses”, which depict queers, trannies and
womyn who seek abortions as the horrors. Mt. Hope is complicit in the repression
of queers in Michigan and beyond.

Bash Back! ain’t down with that. And so on Sunday November 9th, about
thirty radical queers from Lansing, Chicago, Memphis and Milwaukee
disrupted the church’s most well-attended sermon.

At noon, a small group of folks dressed in pink and black, equipped with a
megaphone, black flags, picket signs and an upside-down pink cross began
demonstrating outside the church. The group was extremely loud and wildly

The demonstration drew a majority of Mount Hope’s security staff outside
to watch them.

Meanwhile, with the guards pre-occupied by the distraction, over a dozen
queers had put on their Sunday-best and infiltrated the church’s
congregation. At the signal that the guards had been lured outside, the
infiltrators sprung into action.

A group stood up, declared themselves fags, and began screaming loudly.
Upon hearing the loud interruption, other affinity groups went into
action. A team that had been hiding under the pews in the closed-off
balcony dropped a banner and pulled back the curtains to reveal “IT’S OKAY
TO BE GAY! BASH BACK!”. Another group threw over a thousand fliers to the
entirety of the congregation. The fire alarm was pulled. Queers began
making out in front of the pastor. And within a matter of minutes,
everyone had evaded the guards and made their escapes.

Bash Back! operatives, still hidden among the congregation observed a
person screaming that Satan had come to Mount Hope, that the end was here,
that the queers were everywhere. She then began speaking tongues. The
dumbfounded pastor, after regaining his composure, went on to speak of the
of decadent, depraved wolves that menace his flock of sheep.

Let it be known: So long as bigots kill us in the streets, this pack of
wolves will continue to BASH BACK!

We are everywhere.


Anonymous said...

Constance, I'm looking forward to the broadcast tonight. Even if you don't have a representative from Mt. Hope on, I expect you will be discussing this "sunday surprise", (which should really be no surprise). I have asked several of the elders and deacons from my church to tune in and to think about what our response should/would be if same thing happened at our small Bible believing church.

Speaking of persecution, suicide, and genocide, (aka "releated news")'s a book to add to your posted on WND yesterday...

Ex-Hitler youth's warning to America
'Every day brings this nation closer to Nazi-style totalitarian abyss'
Posted: November 13, 2008
1:00 am Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily

WASHINGTON – Because it has abandoned moral absolutes and its historic Christian faith, the U.S. is moving closer to a Nazi-style totalitarianism, warns a former German member of the Hitler Youth in a new book.

"Every day brings this nation closer to a Nazi-style totalitarian abyss," writes Hilmar von Campe, now a U.S. citizen, and author of "Defeating the Totalitarian Lie: A Former Hitler Youth Warns America."

Von Campe has founded the national Institute for Truth and Freedom to fight for a return to constitutional government in the U.S. – a key, he believes, to keeping America free.

"I lived the Nazi nightmare, and, as the old saying goes, 'A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument,'" writes von Campe. "Everything I write is based on my personal experience in Nazi Germany. There is nothing theoretical about my description of what happens when a nation throws God out of government and society, and Christians become religious bystanders. I don't want to see a repetition. The role of God in human society is the decisive issue for this generation. My writing is part of my life of restitution for the crimes of a godless government, of the evil of which I was a part."

Anonymous said...


Just a suggestion - but I would get a second and maybe a third opinion on whether your car is in fact "totaled."

It doesn't pass "the smell test" to me (or even the logic test).

Anonymous said...

And another red flag:

Your Toyota (with great gas mileage) would be very much in demand for resale!!!

Anonymous said...

If they want to prove the bloodline of Obama in order to be able to link him to "the One we've been waiting for", this could be significant info for them to lay claim to that future purpose.

"A sheikh in Galilee says he has evidence that he and his family are linked by blood to the new President"


Homophobic Horse said...

Queerness is worst kind of homosexuality. One can be homosexual without being queer. A queer believes that everything in the heterosexual world is a rationalisation of an impersonal drive to reproduce.

For the queers, apparently, we spend our whole lives trying to solve the death problem, when really it is life that is supposed to be the problem.

Those “principles” are traced by Igor Shafarevich, in his book on Socialist Phenomenon, to Utopianism—the yearning for man’s God-like absolute freedom that cannot stop short of the freedom to choose death over life. Short of a miraculous last-minute recovery, the choice of death will become irreversible within decades. The elites cherish the prospect. “The Christian misunderstanding and stigmatization of death,” one of its organs says, is the root of most evils in the world: “A whole theology of evil, sin, punishment, and salvation is anchored in seeing death as an enemy.” Our “siege mentality” in relation to death in Christianity has created “the sense of opposition, battle, victory and domination, which has powered Western Civilization in its geographic and technological exploits.” Only by accepting death can we acquire peace and overcome the --"neurosis"-- inherent to the Western mind.

The triumphant chant of Paschal vigil – Christ is risen from the dead, by His death hath He trodden down death and on those in the tombs hath He bestowed life – is to be reversed: only by accepting death can we become really free.

And these demoniacs enjoin you to accept their beliefs or --"sexuality"-- (though sterile genital stimulation and worse can hardly be compared to the function of fertility) on the grounds that if you do not; you are one who is "phobic", you are the one suffering from an "illness".

Rest assured, even Hell is a mercy compared to the absolute nothingness they predicate their beliefs on.

Anonymous said...

If your car is repairable, Constance, it may be advisable to "eat" the repair costs to keep your insurance rates down (have heard rates can go up even if the driver is not responsible for an accident).

Anonymous said...

Dear Paul,
Just as a side note, might you be referring to Matt Shephard?
Unless there was more than one man who was victimized that I am unaware.


Anonymous said...

Yes, Matthew Perry is the actor from the television show, "Friends".

Anonymous said...


Even if you shopped for your new car at a dealership - car sales are in such "crisis mode" now that salesmen will be falling all over you to make a much needed sale.

You are in the driver's seat as far as negotiating and playing one dealership against another to compete for your business - now more than ever in our country's history!!!

Anonymous said...

Group - am I am wrong in noticing that some of the recent comments appear to have an edge to them? It would seem that the tone and context of some of the comments are not coming from the usual crowd. My inner ear does not recongize their voice?

mike in colorado

Anonymous said...

Constance, Rudi & All,

Bill Donohue of the Catholic League has spoken out in defense of the "BASH BACK!" attack on New Hope Church in Lansing Michigan.


November 12, 2008

Catholic League president Bill Donohue commented today on new developments surrounding the radical gays who stormed a church on Nov. 9 in Lansing, Michigan (see Catholic League news release 11-11):

“On Nov. 11, I asked Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox to launch an investigation into what happened at Mount Hope Church. We knew yesterday that a group of gay fascists stormed the church during a Sunday service. What we did not know is that this is a nationwide organization that has been planning to terrorize the church for the past month.

“The facts are not in dispute—all one has to do is tap into the website of Bash Back! There one will find that on Oct. 12 and Oct. 23, a memo was sent to members of the group to commemorate the founding of ‘Michigan’s newly formed chapter’ asking ‘Queers and Trannies’ to join in storming the church. The group boasts that in 2008 there has been ‘an explosion in Radical Trans/Queer organizing,’ citing progress that has been made from ‘Maine to the Midwest to The Bay Area.’ Bash Back! was founded to fight ‘State recognition in the form of oppressive institutions such as marriage and militarism’; it says both are ‘steps towards heteronormative assimilation.’ The radical nature of the group has led it to protest pro-gay marriage organizations like the Human Rights Campaign.

“It is important that law enforcement from all quarters address this issue. We will now contact Eaton County Sheriff Mike Raines and Eaton County Prosecutor Jeffrey L. Sauter to work cooperatively with Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox.

“A left-wing website, the Daily Kos, labeled news reports on what happened at the church ‘a funny story,’ and conducted a survey on the subject. Only 19 percent thought what Bash Back! did crossed the line.”

The following article quoting Bill Donohue was posted on Carrie Tomko's blog.


In the article Bill Donohue is quoted as saying:

Catholic League president Bill Donohue addressed this issue today:

“The real story here is the refusal of the mainstream media to cover what is surely one of the most disturbing events of 2008. If an organized group of gay bashers stormed a gay church, there is not a single sentient person in the United States who wouldn’t know about it.

“This is urban fascism come to America’s heartland. It must be quickly stopped before it gets out of control. We are contacting Mike Cox, the Attorney General of Michigan, calling for an investigation.”

We join with our friends at the Catholic League and encourage our readers to contact Attorney General Mike Cox at

Anonymous said...

P.S. I meant to post the link to the following Catholic League article. Sorry.



Anonymous said...


Constance Cumbey said...

Because the incident was ruled "not an accident" -- damages are covered under the comprehensive damage portion of my policy. Under Michigan law and under these circumstances of our "No Fault Law", I believe the insurance company is not legally allowed to rate me and if so I have a remedy with the State Insurance Commissioner. But thanks for the suggestion.

Don said...

I am appalled!

Unless charges are laid and prosecuted the MSM won't care. Unless Christians stop this nonsense of ignoring the assaults (Jesus said turn the other cheek, not bury your head in the sand), the assaults will spread.

Krystallnacht should be examined to see how appeasement only increased the attacks.

Allowing these criminals, for that is what they are, to continue is WRONG. We are not supposed to just lie down and take it.

The church involved MUST lay charges, MUST demand action from the authorities, MUST refuse to be silenced or else we are all silenced.

I for one will NOT "go silently into that dark night".

There was an article I read recently about a man who stopped an armed assault on his church by pulling out a handgun and killing one of the assailants before they could murder more of the congreagation than they already had.

He saved many lives that day.

That is love!
Not standing by helplessly wringing our hands as violence is perpetrated.

Would you really just watch as someone brutalized your daughter?

The criminals are 'counting' on Christians doing nothing.

They need to know there 'might be' armed defenders in the sanctuary.

They need to know they are not protected by our love for each other or even our love for our neighbors. Or even our respect for scripture and the God who gave it.

I for one will NOT aid evil.
I will resist the devil!

Anybody attacks me or my loved ones will will know my wrath.

I am not ashamed of my position.
I don't believe God is either.


Don said...

Constance will you please start a new separate blog entry about your vehicle so we can discuss it there?



Anonymous said...

For the record, I just want to make a correction.

I meant to write that Bill Donohue who is head of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights spoke out AGAINST the "Bash Back!" attack and in DEFENSE of New Hope Church.

I need to start typing a bit more slowly. :-)

Anonymous said...

Mike in Colorado,

I too have noticed a few out of character posts by a few. I can only attribute this to the obviously mounting pressure against what we hold most dear. Some of us undoubtably will stumble in our attempt to live our faith as I am sure anger will get the best of a few of us. Paul, I have seen as an example realizes this pit fall within himself. I have a suspicion that these types of DEMONstrations against people attending service will only continue to grow in numbers. Unfortunately, however I can already see the legal system turning a blind eye to the issues begining to plague us currently. This is the most important time in history for us to fully demonstrate His love in our own lives, as the world is surley now waiting on baited breath for one of us to slip. We are surely in their crosshairs because they hate our devotion to Him. We must not fail to lift up our brethren and help them shoulder the burden. We must not seek retribution even when they trample us under foot. Retribution is the Lord's and His alone. All we should focus on is showing the divine love our Father has bestowed on us. This and the Good News of our Messiah should be our charge. With out these simple virtues we will never be able to impact any one to see what is truly happening. We must not let fear change who we are to be. If we have troubles now as the pressure is starting to show, how then can we expect to stand firm in our faith when our death sentence has been handed to us and we stand before our executioner? Yes, it disturbs me that some would do this to a congregation of worshippers. What disturbs me more though is that the perpatraters are so lost to their own sin that they take pride in doing something horrendous to another. Yes we should pray for the victims, for them to remain faithfull. More important though is to pray vigilantly for the ones who did it, that the Lord would reveal himself to them so that they might be saved. Jesus called us to love our enemy, for most of us this will be the first time we are truly tested with this instruction, as these people hate us and all we stand for. It may seem injust now, but always remember that all things work toward His greater plan. Love those who wish you destruction and you will stand worthy in His sight.


Anonymous said...


Add this to the ever growing list of things Europe wants their hands in. I would have expected this as it would be impossible to implement the mark without govt hands in all aspects of economics, including currency, trade, and now credit.


Anonymous said...

"He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from Him; He was despised, and we esteemed Him not.
Surely He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth: He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so He openeth not His mouth."-Isa 53:3-7

Remember Paul's encouragement to the faithful in Romans 8:31 "If God is for us who can be against us?" He is our keeper, our defender, our comforter, our avenger, our Redeemer. It is He.


Don said...

Do you honestly mean to tell me if you and your wife were in church and some aggressor attacked her you would do nothing but pray???

You call that love?


I would lay down my life to defend my wife or anyone elses.

This is doing violence to Jesus' words.

He said if you lack one buy a sword.

It is infamy to suppose He meant us to do nothing to protect our loved ones.

I stand by my words.


Anonymous said...

To: mike in colorado (1:36)

Would you mind explaining to us and being more specific about what you meann by recent comments having "an edge to them"?

Thank you.

Don said...

This group seems much more concerned with helping Constance get a car (which is a 'good' work), than in addressing the fact that the Jews who were caught up in the pogroms went obediently.
Mostly because those around them did likewise. Because they had been lied to.


Anonymous said...

Yes Matthew Shephard, sorry.
Thanks SV

Anonymous said...

wow - thats a huge assertion not based on any fact that I can pin point primegood -
By the way, when the Lord Jesus Christ said
Luke 22:36-38
36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

37For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

He also said - it is enough - there were 12 apostles - 2 swords -please - quote it in context, the last time I personally heard that taken to that point was by a member of a militia group that I was interviewing on the radio.

Me personally - I would defend the innocent, and yes even at the cost of my life, but I sincerely beleive that in most cases - I would not need to use a weapon to do so.
Whatever your personal decision in this matter that would require action, all need to remember we are acountable for our actions - and even our words.

Matthew 12:35-37

35A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

One more thing - Yes - I absolutely would help Constance with the car issue if I was able. I would do the same for you primegood - or anyone else for that matter. The only criteria I would need to do so was the Lord saying "yes" to it.
Praise God if we can not as brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus help each other when we need help - as the body of Christ - why do we post and read? And why would one choose to be so disobedient.


Anonymous said...

Primegood, JD,
You're both right and that's why I said it would
be a tough call for ushers etc.

I'm reminded that we are to "put on the whole armor of God." Most of the armor is defensive armor, but the last piece, the Sword of the Spirit
is an offensive weapon.
Swords are not made to persuade people or reason with them.

There were children in that church. Those self
proclaimed queers were way over the line of decency.
I'm just glad that I've been forewarned. I feel like when it happens in my church, I'll be ready and not give way to malice, and give them the photo op
that they're looking for.

Anonymous said...

Hello everyone. This attack on this church does look quite extreme and even surprising. Still, I urge you my brothers and sisters in America to follow Jesus's example (i'm from scandinavia). Do not get provoked! Strategies and tactics of this world allways fail in spritiual matters. Be wise and heed to His teaching. Its not the question of demanding rights. I dont mean that you should me silent. Not at all. Be on the winning side and do not get provoked to this silly demonstration. And the one who talked about some christian shooting an assaillant to save many.. you should reconsider. That is very humane response and solution. But that is all that it is. Human logic. With that logic you might win a battle but you will lose a war. You might even lose your soul.

Anonymous said...

Fact is: all they have is the power of provocation. If you get provoked you lose the game :)

Don said...

By your arguements, the men and women who prosecuted 2 world wars were wrong.

They responded to the call of their God appointed government to go and might against tyranny. They laid down their lives so those they loved would be protected.

You pervert justice when you hide behind scripture. This is about love. If I love my wife, my neighbors, my friends I do not stand by while they are attacked.

Can you actually picture Jesus doing that? He who overturned the tables in the temple because the house of God (read our bodies) was being defiled. Who grabbed a rope and used it as a scourge to whip the vipers responsible?

Give me a break. He said I came not to bring peace, but a sword.

It is a new age perversion to suggest we do nothing when our loved ones are attacked. And how dare you suggest to defend my friends might cost me my soul.

Let me see you give account for your actions if you stand by and do nothing out of piety, when someone you love is brutalized.

The 'turn the other cheek' is about attacks on ME!. If someone attacks ME, I am enjoined to win him for Christ with love. If someone robs ME I am asked to give him more. ME! I can yield ME!

It's an entirely different matter to allow another to be raped, or killed or beaten. I refuse to see Jesus in that!
When the soldiers holding grabbed the disciples in the garden HE DID NOT REMAIN SILENT!!!!!

He said, "It's me you want, let them go".

I would use words, and God given authority and if NECESSARY weapons!

I would NOT let someone hurt my loved ones as long as breath remained in my body.

Your pious judgements are an offense.


Anonymous said...

What would Jesus do?

I am reminded of the time just before Jesus was to be crucified -an angry and impatient Peter using his sword to slice off a soldier's ear - and Jesus calmly putting the soldier's ear back and healing him.

That one lesson alone should speak volumes to all of us.

Don said...

This is beside the point.

I am ranting (and I am ranting) about standing idly by while someone attacks my loved ones.

For God's sake, do you really beleive you honor Jesus by insisting He would want you to not stop it?

I am beyond boggled!

I am and will remain speechless.

over and out


Anonymous said...

No brother - I would not stand idley by - I would defend the innocent - yeah, I agree - if it is JUST me - I will do my bets for HIS service - but to stand in the line of harm to protect innocents who are being attacked - yep - absolutely I would.
Ranting is ok - but it can go way off track on a blog sight brother -


Anonymous said...

Primegood, et. al

Many years ago I felt justified in having to defend myself and my family from an assailant who threatened us right in front of our home. I used my fists to do it, and admittedly threw the first punch, which was the deciding factor as far as the rookie cop who responded to the call was concerned. The young cop felt obliged to issue yours truly a citation for assault and let the other guy off the hook. After an investigation by the prosecutor’s office, and some timely phone calls on my behalf from an older more experienced police officer (who knew the character of the assailant well), the assault charge against me was dismissed. This same veteran (female) police officer later came by to visit me at my home and warn me that our assailant would likely seek revenge, and that he would not come back unarmed or alone. She told me to buy some security lights and asked me if I owned a GUN. I told her I didn’t own any firearms and she said, “Go buy one”, but then whispered, “don’t tell anyone I said that!”

As I read the gospel of Luke, the part right before Jesus was arrested, our Lord clearly told his disciples to arm themselves. The disciples said, “here are two swords”, and Jesus replied that those would be sufficient. Why did our Lord want to make sure the disciples were armed when He must have known Judas was on his way with the temple Priests and soldiers to arrest Him? Was He just setting them up for a test he knew they would fail? Luke declares that the disciples asked Jesus if they should fight to prevent His arrest, and either there was no immediate reply from our Lord, or they acted impulsively without waiting for Jesus to reply. In any case, the High Priest’s servant was soon minus an ear.

We all know what happened after that. Jesus instructed His disciples not to resist this particular action at this particular time. And yes, He reversed the flow of blood and healed the servant’s ear.

Does this mean, as some would have us believe, that as Christ’s followers we are never to resist evil with the force of arms? Is our resistance always to be non-violent? Is pre-emption, or acting first, as I did, and as our country now claims is our “right” as Americans, always wrong? Will Israel soon be condemned for launching a pre-emptive attack on Iran even though that’s exactly what that little creep in Tehran is counting on?

The age old debate between those who profess that Christianity teaches strict pacifism, and those who say we are justified to take up arms to defend ourselves, our family, and/or our country goes to the crux of the issue here.

I described the Mt. Hope Church incident to several men in my church during last night’s Bible study, and asked them how they would respond to the same kind of incident. I said that I admired and applauded the Mt. Hope congregation and their Pastor for acting with restraint. Either the were all in shock, and too dumbfounded to move, or the Holy Spirit was working overtime among them. Yet, like yourself, and our fellow blogger/brother in Christ, Paul, I doubt I would be able to just sit there and take such an assault. I pray that I could turn the other cheek, but I just don’t know if I would.

People can pontificate all they want, but high sounding spiritual admonitions of what we should and shouldn’t do are meaningless until we are tested. Looking back on my own personal test, I'd do the same thing over again, and if the Lord rebuke me, so be it.

Anonymous said...

Dear PrimeGood,
I truly respect your faithful service unto the King of Kings! Please indulge me, a moment, if you will.
I would never accuse you, in any way, of defending your beloved family, the church, or your fellow believers, as something to be apologetic in regards.
The Lord will always guide your response to persecution as you allow Him to.
I would only ask that you consider this: that it was not on the power or ability of Moses that God delivered His chosen people from the persecution of Egypt. For the Lord replied to Moses in Exo.4:12- "Now, therefore, go and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say."
It was not on the power of the mighty warrior Gideon in Judges6:15,16-"[Gideon] said to Him,'O Lord, how can I save Israel? Indeed my clan is the weakest...and I am the least in my father's house.' And the Lord said to him, 'Surely I will be with you, and you shall defeat the Midianites as one man.' "
We find ,also, that the mighty conqueror, David, exclaimed to the Lord in 2Sam.22:40,41 "For You have armed me with strength for the battle; You have subdued under me those who rose against me. You have also given me the necks of my enemies, so that I destroyed those who hated me." and vs. 48, "It is God who avenges me, and subdues the peoples under me; He delivers me from my enemies."
I promise you, it will be God who will deliver us from the noose that you see coming. He raised up the mighty warriors of the generations before us, and He will raise up his warriors for the days ahead. We will fail if we rely on our own strength such as David who disobeyed God and demanded a census of his people and his fighting men- and paid the price for proudly relying on his own might.
[2Samuel 24:10-25]
So, friend, I would encourage you in this way only: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways ackowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths." -Proverbs 3:5,6

I do not consider myself to be wise, I simply want to encourage you to trust in Him; He will direct you in your every action. Just remember that each action we take should glorify Him to the fullest.

With friendship always,

Anonymous said...

Some of “us” don’t like to kill animals, but we eat meat, and some of us don’t like to fight to protect ourselves or others, but we tacitly accept the fighting and protection afforded us by the police and military; being consistent is not always easy, but Jesus did not indicate that the centurion should cease being a centurion. However the intimation that our saved brother Primegood could lose his soul is a theological problem and an unadvised statement. Many books address these arguments, however we interpret scripture, salvation is not dependent on which side of this issue we fall.

Unknown said...

Oldman, and primegood,

I won't hide in the tall grass, and what you wrote, oldman, is very thoughtful and very much on the mark within my heart.

I fully agree - until we are tested, we do not know how we will respond. We need to place our selves mentally into all the possible scenarios in order to prepare, and rehearse them repeatedly, and even then we are ill-prepared. Have we bothered to consider truly what it means to defend our loved ones? Have we truly thought about what type of persecution we could be faced with as the restrictions against our faith become nooses? Why type of action will our government take against the "fringe" of fundamental Christianity. We have a number of groups out there right now clamoring for our deaths.

I myself know full well that an extreme emotional situation could tip the scale of my control where the assailant would be, well, let's say it this way, I was raised to understand that, pointing a gun at a man means I am intending to kill him.

As a Christian, I have an enormous regard for the sanctity of life, and it takes a lot of gut-wrenching thought to consider taking one. I also know, a time may come when I will have to do so, and I had better begin thinking about that now, than when I am looking at a stranger in my house.

Perhaps more to the point is this, we are to consider the times we are in, and to realize that we should be ready to make a defense, be prepared to defend, our families and those around us. If we allow ourselves to be at the mercy of the anarchists, and respond as frightened "children", then we are poorly prepared for the coming persecution, and not using the brains God gave us, to pro-actively think about our situations, nor to learn from the examples of scripture and history.

I think I'll close for now.....

Anonymous said...

Dear PrimeGood,
For the sake of complete disclosure, I have a "warrior" nature too, so to speak. My favorite films [more likely to my discredit] are The Godfather trilogy, and Saving Private Ryan. My nature is to punch first when I or my family are attacked and fill in the blanks later! I named all of those leaders and warriors in the Bible, because they are my favorites. I remind myself, daily, however, to honor God with the nature that He has gifted me with, and to give Him all the Honor, Glory, Power, and Praise. And I've learned to never act on my own power, but always on His, for He is merciful at times where I would not have been. [I've always sympathized with Jonah- I'd have been mad too, simply for the sake of witnessing justice being served!]
So now you know how much I need to rely on Him each day for guidance with every action!

For His glory alone,

Anonymous said...

I think you might have noticed that the title of this blogspot says It doesn't say Primegood's Forum.

It's a pity that you are bothered by the fact that now she needs help from those of us who she has helped over all of these years. We live in a physical world, not just a mental and spiritual one. When a friend or family member needs physical help, it is inappropriate to send them away with a prayer or a happy thought.

We have no idea who you are or what you've done for the community of people who are fighting the New Age movement. Whatever it might be, you've felt the need to use this forum for your own expression of interest in the topic. To that end you are benefiting from something Constance has done. If you have a problem with what is going on here, you know you are free to set up Primegood's Forum someplace else and run it as you see fit.


Anonymous said...

I', about 5 minutes from air time. I would really appreciate anybody who could help me out with chatroom participation tonight over at Mt. Hope Church emailed me a statement, but has no live representative for me tonight.



Anonymous said...

No one is passing judgement on anyone on this blog. Only Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has the power to do that.

Anonymous said...

"A memorial service will be held Friday for Barack Obama's grandmother, Madelyn Payne Dunham, who died of cancer at 86 two days before her grandson was elected president.

According to The Associated Press, the public ceremony will take place at the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific in Honolulu.

Though the Obama family will not be in attendance, Barack is scheduled to visit Hawaii in December to pay his respects to Dunham, who helped raise him."

Reread the previously linked article on narcissistic personalities.


Anonymous said...


The mainstream media MUST ignore this Lansing, MI church incident or run the risk of labeling this very radical fringe element of the homosexual community guilty of committing a "hate crime."

We can't have that, as we all know that hate crimes only happen TO the gays - not BY the gays.

(Excuse my sarcasm.)

Anonymous said...

Dear Dorothy,
My "warrior" pales in comparison to yours. :-)
I never cease to be amazed.

Bless you,

Anonymous said...

Let me go out on a limb, (a la Shirley McClaine), and predict that Mt. Hope's congregation is about to swell to overflowing. Indeed, they must be doing something right to deserve the honor of such a blatant attack by the adversary.

Anonymous said...

As this is obviously just the beginning of attacks on churches all over the world, we must all make a vow not to allow this to intimidate us into staying away from attending our local churches.

This is clearly their aim and goal.

We must remain strong and pray for guidance.

Anonymous said...

and I was taken in by this hoax.

The final story is still out on the Michelle Obama tape and the Kenyan birth certificate promised by the people at African Press, but it looks like a Nellie On The Tracks saga. For the youngsters reading here that was a serial in movie theaters where every part had a cliffhanger such as how could Nellie be saved when she was tied to the railroad tracks and a train was coming.

Every day at that website something is taken care of, a new date is promised and then it falls through on the following day when something new is promised only to fall through on the following day.
This has been going on for weeks.

The news people seem to be pulling one huge hoax after another as they supposedly cover the news and the dailies here in Chicago look more like Obama family albums and scrapbooks than newspapers.

No one can be sure of everything they've learned. Sometimes I just have to admit I've made a mistake in what I've accepted as the truth. I do think that understanding that keeps me sharper than I would be if I just believed I knew it all.


Anonymous said...

Anon 9:15,

Those that are cowed into staying away from their houses of worship, let them stay home, where they can live under an illusion of peace and safety.

There's a Jewish synagogue here in town, has suffered through all kinds of graffetti and an occasional bomb threat, etc. Yet the people faithfully continue to come. Let a Jew teach us about persecution. Let a
Christian believer in northern India tell us what risks they take to proclaim Christ and gather in a place of worship. Dust off your copy of Foxe's Book of Martyrs and learn what it means to belong to Christ. A bunch of gays with pink hats? Good grief people! This is only the beginning. Wheat and chaff folks, wheat and chaff.

Anonymous said...

Constance, thanks for being onto this occurance.

Anonymous said...

Primegood, Paul, and others,

Greater love has no man, than he that would lay down his life for a friend. That being said, the situation in Lansing is a bit different from having my wife or a loved one attacked. How ever there are still ways of protecting loved ones with out resorting to the same tactics as a attacker. In a situation as such my prime goal would probably be to make myself their target allowing my wife or loved one an opportunity for escape.

The example given of how Peter defended Jesus can be perplexing in that while Peter was surely defending his Master, Jesus stopped him. Examples are also given in the Law of when it is deemed exceptable to use force. An example would be if a man enters your home uninvited after dark. There are times when defence of ones self and loved ones are acceptable, however my point was to illustrate how we should act when it comes time for our final persacution. In this no greater example can be made than the one our Messiah set forth for us. A day will come when a man will come to take each of us to our deaths, the question is will you be like Peter and fight a losing battle, or will you be like our Master and accept the cup?


Anonymous said...

Wow really need to spell check


Anonymous said...

Paul interrupted his writings to tell Timothy : 1 Timothy 5:23
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

Caring for Constance and her car seems to me also very important.

Anonymous said...

Constance, please consider buying a big SUV and driving faster. That way you can perform your assisted suicide functions more efficiently. As I posted on your “suicide blog thread”, if you are too squeamish to carry out this service properly, then you will have to send these people to the great Northwest, (Washington or Oregon) where more enlightened folk have shown they are willing to perform the "duty" with "compassion" and "dignity".

Young Grasshopper said...

Hey guys,

Check it out:

I just wrote about it on my blog as well.

Young Grasshopper said...

For the archivers, here's the article:

Insight: 'Bretton Woods Two'?

By Bridget Kendall
BBC diplomatic correspondent

A deep-seated global crisis is often a chance to redraw the map, reflecting shifts in the balance of power in different ways.

First, the crisis can confirm or nudge ahead trends which seem to be happening anyway - like the shift of power from Western to emerging Eastern players.

Second, it can put flesh on reforms already in the air - like plans to overhaul the international financial architecture to be discussed at this weekend's summit being hosted by President Bush in Washington.

And third, there are the instinctive emergency reactions, supposedly temporary, but which can end up reshaping the global chessboard for years to come - the hurried nationalisation of some Western banks, for instance, or possibly Iceland's desperate bailout appeal to Russia - a Nato member putting financial survival ahead of any security provisos.

Of course to draw firm conclusions at this point, with the economic crisis far from over, is a risky venture. But some patterns merit closer examination.

First, is the balance of power in the world really shifting eastwards? It is a question that has been the subject of much debate recently on the discussion programme The Forum which I host for the BBC World Service.

My guests' general conclusion seems to be that, yes, Asia is on the rise, and the economic woes of the US and Europe have exposed the fragility of Western banking and the vulnerability of Western economies.

China and India have been less affected. And, even if demand for Chinese goods slows, its mammoth economy can still be a powerful engine of growth and a much needed source of liquidity.

Russian nerves

And yet, in a world so interdependent economically, can any part be immune? Especially given the symbiotic relationship between China and the United States - "Chimerica" as the Harvard historian Niall Ferguson calls it: not two financial systems, but one.

In these terms, surely if the American and other Western economies have succumbed to a chronic bout of sneezing, flu for China and rest of world is inescapable?

Moreover, perhaps we should not overstate the resilience of emerging economies.

Look no further than Moscow, where the stock market panic and flight of capital abroad have been dramatic, and the fall in world oil prices has added to the economy's battering.

Despite Russia's legendary energy wealth, there is a new nervous uncertainty among local businessmen who - one suspects - know more than most about the way the domestic economy remains weakened by corruption and a labyrinthine smoke-and-mirrors way of doing business.

A second question worth pondering - just how likely is it that this weekend's top-level meeting really will generate reform of the world's leading financial institutions?

Bridget Kendall
1998 to present: BBC diplomatic correspondent
1994-98: Washington correspondent
1989-94: Moscow correspondent


There is grand talk of a 'Bretton Woods Two', a vision for a new financial system pushed for some time by, among others, Britain's Gordon Brown. True, there is broad agreement on an agenda to seek ways to forestall a global recession, devise an early warning system and consider more international regulation.

But the leaders from 20 of the world's largest economies bring to the table a variety of conflicting interests, some motivated by practical need, others by ideological considerations, some looking for short term fixes - the move from private to state control of banks for instance - which others view as a desirable long term objective.

Top table reform

So is major reform feasible? Is the current economic crisis cataclysmic enough yet to be truly transformational?

The Europeans say they are united in a call for global financial governance and greater transparency.
The United States has been famously reluctant to accept any authority but its own. Why should this be any different?

But a rift has opened up between those like the French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, who seek permanent global oversight of financial transactions, and wary Anglo-Saxon governments - including above all the US administration - which fear that too much control could hamper the workings of the free market.

And even if that hurdle is surmounted, could any US president, even one enjoying such goodwill as President-elect Barack Obama, win Congressional backing for a toothy regulatory body that would have real oversight of US institutions?

Whether the issue is international crimes against humanity or attempts to regulate carbon emissions, the United States has been famously reluctant to accept any authority but its own. Why should this be any different?

Meanwhile, the powerhouse nations of the so-called BRIC group - Brazil, Russia, India and China - and the petro-states of the Gulf (armed with the bargaining chip of sovereign wealth funds) have made it clear that what they want is recognition that the old elite clubs dominated by Western nations no longer reflect reality.

Logic would suggest this means reform of the top tables not just at the IMF and the World Bank, but an enlargement of the G8 (Group of Eight most industrialised countries), and the United Nations Security Council.

Fine in theory. But in practice…

Reforming the G8 is probably easiest. Already the annual summit opens its doors to other players. And the 2009 host, Italy's Silvio Berlusconi, has made it known he intends to invite the G20 countries to his G8 Sardinia party.

But the weary process of reform at the UN has left many jaundiced. It is hard to imagine the mechanism which would require current global powers to agree to anything but a symbolic change.

The Bretton Woods Agreements
Agreed in July 1944, but not all of them operative until 1959
Creation of the IMF and IBRD (now part of World Bank)
Encouraged open markets
Obligation to maintain currency exchange rates within fixed values (to +/- 1%)
Likewise at the World Bank and the IMF, the hard bargaining will revolve not just around which new countries get seats on the board, but whether they will be allowed to upset the current balance of power when it comes to decision-making. Note that already there are voices warning that too many players will make any new arrangement dysfunctional.

There are other complications. Russia continues to agitate for any adjustment that will lessen US influence, whether in financial or European security matters.

No doubt President Medvedev will want to repeat his and Mr Putin's belief that the root cause of the current financial crisis lies in American unilateralism following the end of the Cold War and the 9/11 terrorist attacks - an ideological argument that may irritate rather than persuade and make consensus even harder to achieve.

Safety in numbers

And a third area of examination - what do the emergency reactions to the financial crisis so far tell us about the way the world may be heading?

Reactions seem to boil down to a choice of two - whether to conclude that in times of trouble safety lies in numbers and it is better to be part of a bigger bloc, or whether when the going gets hard, it is better to look after your own - the protectionist, nationalist instinct.

Certainly some people seem to be concluding that size is the best security against future risk.

In beleaguered Iceland, where six months ago opinion suggested a majority were against EU membership, those in favour of throwing their lot in with the EU has crept above 50%.

A similar trend in Scandinavia is leading the governments in Denmark and possibly Sweden to wonder if they should think again about offering a referendum on joining the Euro.
In global terms, perhaps the biggest worry of all must be what will a financial downturn mean for the world's have-nots?

And in Scotland, too, recent polls have suggested support for the Scottish Nationalist Party's vision of independence has lost ground. Going it alone, it seems, no longer looks so attractive in the wake of a financial crisis.

But at the same time, EU cohesiveness has taken a knocking. Despite early declarations of EU economic solidarity, it didn't take long for Ireland to break ranks and offer a unilateral guarantee to depositors to forestall a run on its banks, or for Germany to hint it would take similar action.

And disorderly EU bickering ahead of the Washington summit has rather belied claims of European unity.

And in global terms, perhaps the biggest worry of all must be what will a financial downturn mean for the world's have-nots?

Fears for poor

For all the high hopes of turning this crisis to advantage, to push through reforms that otherwise would never have been contemplated, there is a danger it could pivot in the opposite direction. And if this crisis ushers in greater protectionism, it could mean an end to an era of generosity and less concern for the welfare of others.

For the last decade it has been the very poor who have dominated the agenda of the World Bank and the IMF. Not any more. In the last two months, it has been Iceland, Hungary, Ukraine and Pakistan knocking at the IMF door.

Already the UN Secretary General, Ban Ki-Moon, has sounded the alarm that his ambitious UN Millennium goals to slash poverty, illiteracy and disease run the risk of being neglected. This could 'threaten to undermine all our achievements' he said recently.

Just this week the World Food Programme warned it was having to cut food aid to impoverished Zimbabweans due to a lack of international donations. A harbinger of things to come, perhaps.

And there is a broader implication - that it may become increasingly difficult to persuade nations to sign up for large-scale interventions to help the desperate and the victimised. If a global recession cannot be avoided, the United Nations' much vaunted "responsibility to protect", only recently enacted, may end up already becoming an outdated aspiration.

You can listen to the BBC World Service's The Forum with Bridget Kendall

Your comments:

The crisis will have low or any impact on international relations. The governments have to stop pushing money into the banking system immediately and use it to support companies (not financial) and create new workplaces
Ervin , Brno, Czech republic

Subsidies will end for the developed world. Developing countries produce will be marketable in those developed countries. The farmers in developed countries will be discouraged and will shunt farming due to poor returns. Developing countries, especially African economies will prosper. Developed countries' exports will diminish in sales volumes to developing countries. Availability of cheap raw materials for the bug economies will decrease.
Elphas Moni, Kampala, Uganda

I have been having a feeling lately that the current financial crisis is just another one off event and the situation will normalise soon. The countries bickering about the US influence seem to be taking advantage of its current financial failings-which is a rather ill fated short term proposition. More emphasis should be concentrated on what led to the current situation, .i.e. lavish credit from banks, 'cooked books' from financial institutions etc... The Chinese, though not there yet, have shown that we can regulate capitalism to the good of everyone. But all in all the financial crisis is over hyped and it will therefore have negligible effect on the balance of power.
Charles Lukwago, Kampala, Uganda

This is regarding a new Multipolar World Order
Chetan Singh, Dehradun, India

Let's hope this trend signals the end of the dominance of the Illuminati in Europe and the US!
Maurice, Paris, France

The financial crisis will affect international relations positively. As the famous saying goes, adversity is a blessing in disguise. The great financial crisis is serving as an eye opener to those who assumed that without investing in sustainable growth pre-requisites, profits can be harnessed forever. They are being proved wrong.

Madan Gopal Sharma, Olten, Switzerland

Your article is very interesting, focusing on the materialistic aspects of life (money, power, control etc) but it leaves out the more important aspect of humanity, its spiritual reality (compassion, justice, ethic, respect, truthfulness and many more .... ). There definitely needs to be a balance between the material and spiritual, otherwise civilisation as we are experiencing it in these days, will be doomed ... as happened to great civilisations of past ages.
Paula van den Boogaart, Nuernberg, Germany

I would like to see more G-20 Than G-7, or 8's. Also, more countries involved in the decisions of the planet, after all we are in this together. The less government involvement in a free market, the better off the free market is, take the pain.
David Eaton, Las Vegas, USA

I think that balance of powers will tend to eastern nations but it is a matter of time (we do not know how many time) that that balance tends back to western nations again.

I think all nations should work together without thinking about particular interests like the USA and China, that consume lots of fossil fuel. Rising nations like Brazil and India must be considered in all these international discussions about the economy etc.
Gustavo Pontello, Araraquara, Brazil

The financial crisis has shaken many countries in the last few weeks, it has opened the eyes of the world on how the financial system was structured over the last 50 years. The fall of the US economy and its domino effect on the rest of the world has proven one thing: the system was created to basically support them. Now, the leaders of the world's biggest economy should learn to define the meaning of "balance" in this world. They must set clear parameters to define how we can all affect each other.
Mark Carbungco, Jakarta, Indonesia

Story from BBC NEWS:

Anonymous said...

Yes Sarah,
The good news in the Lansing story is that we heard about it.
Having read it, I feel forewarned and fore armed.
I don't know about anyone else but for me, just knowing a bit about what's coming is what I needed more than anything. Score one for the Cumby blog!
My temper flies off the handle when I get surprised,
such as when someone cuts me off in traffic suddenly.
If I were to see it coming beforehand, then I'd just slow down a bit and watch it happen and probably shake my head and roll my eyes.
Knowledge is power. I now know that what these creeps are hoping for is a violent reaction that they can videotape and play on TV.
They were not armed, Primegood. Otherwise I'd
be inclined to agree with you. As it is I hope that they are prosecuted for public indecency and whatever else the Law can do. After all, there were children there and these people can hardly talk without using obscenities and of course they had to display their perversion to everyone there.
I know one thing: when men get hysterical, I tend to lose my temper. I'm very much affected by that type of noise.
Which makes me think of modern cartoons. Has
anyone noticed that every cartoon has long segments of hysterical, blood-curdeling
screaming nowadays ? I mean just look away and listen to any childrens cartoon these days. The visual action is cute and funny while the sound is
really horrid; like a war going on or people being tortured. These cute cartoons are probably more damaging than any pink flag waving church demonstration.
You want to shoot something, shoot your TV.

Young Grasshopper said...


Didn't mean to add the comments into the mix! Sorry so long!

(The Illuminati comment was funny, though!)

Anonymous said...

Constance, take your car to Sears Auto Center at the Mall. They don't have a need to rip you off the way some mechanics do.
After that, begin shopping around for a smalltime
one-man garage who's honest. Ask people
who their mechanic is. Then meet the guy and treat him like a dignitary.
I don't believe that your car is really totaled.

Anonymous said...

The issue of being totaled may be due to how insurance companies view it;
If the parts and labor cost more than the value of the car - it is totaled.


Anonymous said...

I can't help but believe these attacks and provocations of the Churches are meant to demonstrate to the world how crazy we American Christians are, and how their anti-extremism laws are going to be needed to keep us under control. Folks, my sons Bible verse this week shows us exactly how to respond

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:21

If this (God forbid) happens in my church, I will start singing Amazing grace or something... We don't have to "take it" but we can shine a brighter light.


Constance Cumbey said...

To all:

I will confess that on my father's side of the house until the last generation which changed religious affiliation, I am descended from a long line of Quakers -- well known pacifists. My mother was while I was growing up, a 7th Day Adventist -- also pacifists. I can see both sides of this argument -- I personally deplore guns and believe that if somebody is truly trusting God, that is the best protection. But God also sent people to war from time to time . . .

But if I had been attending that Colorado Springs church, I would have been mighty glad that armed security guard was there!


Constance Cumbey said...

Hey, I'm linked by blood to the new president -- and so are all of you. The Scriptures clearly say "all men are one blood." I don't know how far back the lineage goes. My best genealogical chart says Noah and the Mrs. Earlier than that: Adam and Eve.


Constance Cumbey said...

I have a wonderful mechanic. I wrote a column about it about two years ago -- "Mark of Marathon."

It does appear since I went to look at the car that the damage was more extensive than I thought. For one thing, the glove compartment leaked and there was damage in the roof I had not noticed.

Thanks for the suggestion!


Constance Cumbey said...

Young Grasshopper:

Bretton Woods 2? Javier Solana opened his March 21, 2007 speech at the Brookings Institution on Global Governance and its imperatives for 2009 with discussing that and Dean Acheson, PRESENT AT THE CREATION!


Young Grasshopper said...

Hi Constance,

I simply copied and pasted the article from the BBC. It was the headline I was interested in, not the content per say.I was trying to point out that by putting NEW WORLD ORDER on the front page of the BBC, the NWO is now mainstream and those of us who have been called lunatic fringe for years can now see our brain cells aren't all that wacked.

Thanks for the info, though.

Regarding lineage- I also had maternal grandparents that were Quakers, also a native American ancestor that no one on my mother's side will talk about.

On dad's side I've recently found out I'm Jewish.

So nice to know we're all related in spite of the various religious affiliations that we may or may not have differences with.

Anonymous said...

I want to know why this is not considered a hate crime?

Anonymous said...


Charlie Butts nd Marty Cooper - OneNewsNow - 11/14/2008 7:00:00 AM

Activist homosexual leaders are planning a day of protest this Saturday over losing the traditional marriage battles in three states.

The homosexual movement for special rights has become louder, and in some cases violent, in the aftermath of losses at the ballot box in Florida, Arizona, and California. Florida Family Association notes the increased intensity in rhetoric from the self-proclaimed "champions of tolerance" and diversity. The National Day of Protest's logo is a clenched fighting fist and features phrases such as "Fight the H8" (Fight the Hate) and "Ready to Rumble."

Florida Family Association notes the irony in that the homosexual movement that formerly preached diversity and tolerance has now become increasingly disorderly and aggressive, even intolerant, of supporters of traditional marriage by vandalizing property and staging protests at and inside churches. Matt Barber of Liberty Counsel says the demonstrations ought to be taken seriously, especially this Saturday.

"There have been threats of church burnings. There have been threats of violence, even murder against Christians," he explains. "There has been vandalism already of a number of churches."

According to an alert issued by the Florida Family Association, the "radical gay leaders" have two goals in mind through the upcoming protest: one being to normalize homosexuality in all areas of American society, and the second being to "silence everyone who disagrees with them." The notice adds that the homosexual activists are refusing to accept the final vote as an expression of the will of America's people. more....

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:41

Good question, there have surely been enough charges of hate crimes for christians doing far less.


Great find, good to see you back in the mix a little more.


Anonymous said...

To young grasshopper (1:17 PM) --

CNN also had a headline mentioning the New World Order today:

"G-20: Shaping a New World Order"

U.S. economic mettle is tested as emboldened leaders from throughout the world gather in Washington.

By Steve Hargreaves, staff writer

Last Updated: November 14, 2008: 11:48 AM ET

Anonymous said...

"Six degrees of separation" department?

In a previous post, someone asked was there a relationship between Barack Obama and Javier Solana.

Well, Constance could tell is more about that, but I think it was Rudi who had posted documentation that supports a very close (personal as well as political) friendship between Colin Powell and Javier Solana.

So, when Colin Powell (a Republican) endorsed Barack Obama (a Democrat) for President - I suspect there is a link to Obama.

In any event, they are all "players on the world stage" just waiting for the curtain to rise!!!

Anonymous said...

Can you imagine if Christians stood outside gay organizations, wherever they are, and holding up signs, hiding under their desks with scripture quotes about repenting and salvation? It would be considered a type of hate speech. And we're just trying to save them from eternal damnation. I hope this all makes sense.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone notice the H8 in the "Fight H8" as being the number 88? Wasn't that the same number the skin used said they would kill before they murdered Obama? What is the significance of that number?


Anonymous said...

Ssorry, the skin-heads.

Anonymous said...

Argh! Never-mind, lol.


Anonymous said...

I heard someone "translate" this just the other day:

H is the 8th letter of the alphabet.

So, "88" is a Nazi / Skin Head secret code for "Heil Hitler."

And "H8" means the same.

Rudi said...

H8 is also an Acronym for hate. -Rudi

Anonymous said...

The latest from radical former Catholic, Karen Armstrong:

World asked to help craft online charter for religious harmony

Nov 14 05:14 PM US/Eastern

A website launched Friday with the backing of technology industry and Hollywood elite urges people worldwide to help craft a framework for harmony between all religions.

The Charter for Compassion project on the Internet at springs from a "wish" granted this year to religious scholar Karen Armstrong at a premier Technology, Entertainment and Design (TED) conference in California.

"Tedizens" include Google founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin along with other Internet icons as well as celebrities such as Forest Whittaker and Cameron Diaz.

Wishes granted at TED envision ways to better the world and come with a promise that Tedizens will lend their clout and capabilities to making them come true.

Armstrong's wish is to combine universal principles of respect and compassion into a charter based on a "golden rule" she believes is at the core of every major religion.

The Golden Rule essentially calls on people to do unto others as they would have done unto them.

"The chief task of our time is to build a global society where people of all persuasions can live together in peace and harmony," Armstrong said.

"If we do not achieve this, it seems unlikely that we will have a viable world to hand on to the next generation."

Charter for Compassion invites people from "all faiths, nationalities, languages and backgrounds" to help draft statements of principles and actions that should be taken.

Copyright AFP 2008

Anonymous said...

Yes - even though Karen Armstrong is a former nun, she has clearly abandoned her traditional Catholic faith.

She now calls herself a "freelance monotheist".

She views "fundamentalism" in a historical context, as an outgrowth of modern culture.

She is very much a "New Ager" - so I would never use "Catholic" and "Karen Armstrong" in the same sentence.

Anonymous said...

Have watched the BBC World News America program, more or less regularly, since its inception in the fall of last year, '07 (they recently celebrated their 1st anniversary). Today, the one-hour program included the following:

- coverage of the G-20 meeting
- interview of Ban Ki-Moon, Sec.-Gen. of the U.N.
- video and commentary of the city of Babylon (ruins w/rebuilt parts) in Iraq

When stock markets began falling last month, they had a piece on how the Iraq stock market was the only one flourishing (albeit rather rudimentary). Timing is everything.

Anonymous said...

EIGHT - Denotes resurrection, regeneration; a new beginning or commencement. The eighth is a new first. Hence the octave in music, colour, days of the week. It is the number which has to do with the Lord, Who rose on the eighth, or new "first-day". This is, therefore, the Dominical number. By Gematria (the addition of the numerical value of the letters together) the Greek letters for Jesus makes the numbers 888. It, or its multiple is impressed on all that has to do with the Lord's Names, the Lord's People, and the Lord's works.

Just keeping it in perspective.

Anonymous said...

Dr. Solana's agenda states that he will give an address at the Conference on the Managing Global Insecurity (MGI) Plan of Action, at Brookings Institution on 11/20/08, in Washington:

Anonymous said...

Kind of interesting that all of a sudden Louis Farrakhan and Karen Armstrong have the same agenda. You have to watch the end of the video...


Anonymous said...

Ali Asani, on Karen Armstrong's board, explains why Obama was elected.

"On civil liberties and diplomacy

With the election of President-elect Barack Obama we have entered a new era in which we resoundly reaffirm some of the important ideals for which this nation was founded: separation of church and state, freedom to practice religion without fear of persecution, tolerance for difference, and respect for human dignity. Collectively, these ideals, enshrined in our Constitution, are the lamplight of a nation widely admired around the world. Unfortunately, as a nation we have not always lived up to these ideals, sometimes violating them in the most egregious manner. The historic election of Barack Obama makes him a powerful symbol of hope, helping us once again focus on these fundamental values and the civil rights guaranteed by our Constitution. In many ways, Barack Obama is the embodiment of a vibrant multicultural, multiethnic, and multireligious America. Peoples around the globe are watching excitedly as our nation repositions itself, under the leadership of our new chief, to engage with other nations on the basis of dialogue and partnership rather than unilateral action."

Asani is professor of Indo-Muslim and Islamic religion and cultures at Harvard University. He will teach RELI E-1550 Understanding Islam and Contemporary Muslim Societies at the Extension School this spring.

Let me rephrase what Asani meant to say...Obama has been anointed by the powerful to help lead the US and the rest of the world into this NWO. The financial piece is being put into place as the G20 meet and discuss how to "harmonize" the world economies. The religious piece is being put into place with people like Tony Blair, Karen Armstrong, the recent UN interfaith meeting etc. The political piece is being orchestrated by EU with the Mediterranean Union, and the only thing getting in the way of this "new era of peace and global oneness" is Israel. If these groups can only get that global troublemaker to stop abusing the poor Palestinians and come on board...( being sarcastic here). All the world leaders are expecting Obama to get on board and play, to open up dialogues with Iran, Syria etc. Don't put anything on Poland's soil that might disturb Russia, implement more Socialist/Communist principals in the US, instead of the "free market system" that has caused this economic downfall and is unfair to the poor nations.

The US has a lot of faults, and I'll be the first to say it, but as soon as US begins to "submit" ( the meaning of Islam) to this world agenda...the NWO can emerge. It is clear that this why Obama was chosen, and why no matter what, he would win the Presidential election.. The economic downturn was perfectly timed to permit him to come in a begin to orchestrate "change". We need to keep a careful eye on Israel. This are heating up there with the Hamas ceasefire stopping today, an election coming up.. Israel has always been the key to God's prophetic plan and we will soon see how Obama deals with Israel, with Hillary? as Secretary of State perhaps the deal that Bill could push through will be made under Obama's watch. I fully expect some kind of proposal to emerge under this administration. All of the interfatih initiatives will help pave the way for the new tolerance in the Middle East, as Hamas continues to send rockets over into Israel.


Anonymous said...

Yes, Joyce, it occurred to me too that Hillary would be useful in this way, in the "peace" process in Israel.

On the subject of the attacks at the church by anarchists, many Christians are no longer attending church. They attend home fellowships. Even these could be attacked if they get big, of course, but are less likely to be. Christians are going underground, and have been for years. Chuck Missler of Koinonia House has been promoting home Bible studies for years. I am going to start attending one, in that I cannot find a truly Bible believing church in my community anyway. It is hard for me to get to church on their schedules, anyway, in my community. So I will go to home fellowship.

However, shocked by the attacks on the Lansing church. These people are more secular humanists than mere homosexual and transsexual activists--they are against anything that is of God. I weep because I know personlly young people, including relatives, who are in this camp. If all your close relatives believe in God, you are blessed.


Anonymous said...


Some early reports from the dinner held for the G-20 indicate almost everyone has a working consensus on what needs to be done. Saturdays meeting appears to be about how to implement the changes and over what period of time to stretch it out. No word exactly what they are planning to due, but given the tone of Sarkozy who has been the one championing the plan, I think we can all tell where we are headed on this one.


Rudi said...

Thanks Joyce, great insight. As I read your comment I found myself thinking how impossible it would be for all of these correlating events to be happening, perfectly timed, as you said, without a intentional synchronized plan. Such a pity...
like a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand.

Also thanks Anonymous for the latest info regarding Karen Armstrong. You've given us a lot to look into.

Susanna, I really appreciated reading your comments about Bill Donohue. God bless him for taking the stand he has this week.


Anonymous said...

Off topic blog post regarding a lawsuit filed by Amish famers against the Bush Admnistration and RFID technology:

The Amish farmers claim (.pdf) Michigan regulations requiring them to use radio frequency identification devices on their cattle "constitutes some form of a 'mark of the beast' and/or represents an infringement of their 'dominion over cattle and all living things' in violation of their fundamental religious beliefs," according to the farmers' lawsuit filed in September in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.

Read the entire article and especially the comments that follow.



Anonymous said...

Berit has a few very interesting new entries. Read this from Lighthouse Trails:

Will Department of Defense Turn to Meditation to Bring World Peace?

In the article, Leffler discusses US Defense Secretary Robert Gates in Gates' recent speech at the U.S. Institute of Peace.....
According to research, special units would be trained using Transcendental Meditation (TM) and TM-Sidhi programs

Follow the links in the article to the US Institute of Peace. Which has the following:

The Center for Mediation and Conflict Resolution designs and manages the Institute's efforts in areas where fighting is active. The Center also conducts research, identifies best practices, develops new peacemaking tools, and supports related training and education efforts.

This is what we get under a "conservative" President's Admnistration. Constance may be interested to read Secretary Gates' effusive praise of Dean Acheson.


Anonymous said...

Sorry here's the link to the article on Berit's site:



Anonymous said...



I can't reach you by email, the mails are bouncing back to me. I will try again later.


Anonymous said...

Aglow international
Aglow was front and center at one of two history-making gatherings in Washington DC on Saturday, Sept. 27. As the members of Congress were called to Capitol Hill and into weekend sessions over the economic crisis, 2,000 Aglow members were in session on the Upper Senate Park with an unprecedented prayer assignment: to bring the kingdom of God to earth to reign over the affairs of men from that day forward.

Jane's September 2008 Letter

P.S. Don’t forget…pray, come to conference, give a multiple-of-8 gift, and vote!

I post it for their prayer assignment ant the 8 gift.


Anonymous said...

To Deannie (2:40 AM):

God bless the Amish farmers!!!

Anonymous said...

To Sylvester (5:32 AM):

Received your messages (both here and on my e-mail).

Over and out.


Anonymous said...

To JD (1:48 AM)

Here is a portion of yesterday's CNN article on this weekend's G-20 conference in Washington for an insight into the European Union's clear agenda:

"Europe's heavy hand
To bolster their position, the Europeans come to the meeting emboldened by their belief that the credit crisis didn't originate on their soil.

They say that means the more tightly regulated European banking model has triumphed over the more lax laws favored in America.

'The initial response was accusing the U.S. of cowboy capitalism,' said Finel-Honigman. 'But as the weeks passed, it's become clear we're all in this together.'

Together or not, deep divisions still exist between the United States and the Europeans, who initially called for this meeting and will be pushing an agenda heavy on new rules.

Their proposals include: Greater oversight of hedge funds and investment banks; increasing how much money banks need to keep in reserve; more transparent and universal accounting standards; and limits on executive pay.

All that would be accompanied by a new global network of regulators -regulators that would presumably have power over U.S. banks, a potential non-starter with the Bush administration.

'Self-regulation to solve all problems, it's finished,' French President Nicholas Sarkozy was quoted saying in the Guardian newspaper last month. 'Laissez-faire, it's finished. The all-powerful market that is always right, it's finished.'

Moreover, the Europeans are expected to come to the talks presenting a more united front than ever. And they are likely to use one voice to gain international support to counter U.S. policies which many blame for this crisis."

Anonymous said...

In a statement in today's Washington Post (11/15/08) regarding the G-20 conference:

"Most nations, including the United States, have acknowledged that a new world order has emerged."

Anonymous said...

A unified front? The harmonization of the tech industry, the Hollywood elite, and the AOC…via Karen Armstrong. The Charter for Compassion Project.”urges people worldwide to help craft a framework for harmony between all religions.” The link has been on Drudge for 24 hours now…

There’s only one problem with St. Karen’s global “Golden Rule” philosophy….it breaks down when the reality of Satan is taken into account. Just imagine how a wolf views the concept of “do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Armstrong is probably thinking more along the lines of a "Golden Compass", pointing in whatever direction is required to achieve a purpose, which is to get as many as possible to accuse God of being unjust.

Anonymous said...

I posted this on Farmer's blog yesterday, but am putting it up here as well.

Since the WEU has finally agreed on Barcelona as the site for their new headquarters......the Pedralbes Palace to be specific....I thought I'd take a look...

Google Earth...

2° 7'2.87"E

There were some "eyes" looking back, but not the kind I expected. I did start wondering if any of these Mediterranean sea coastal dignitaries might enter the Pedralbes Palace through the Dragon’s Gate. The gate and palace were designed by famed architect Antonio Gaudi. The gate itself is adorned with Ladon the Dragon, a favorite subject of Gaudi's. This particular mythological beast (representing Draco) played a prominent role in the ancient legends, and has been charged by Gaudi with the task of guarding the Carriage House entrance to the estate. This "back door" historically offered important visitors a more discreet entre to the Royal Palace.

But alas, Gaudi's patron Eusibi Guell’s estate has been divided by a road that now funnels traffic between the Palace and the University of Barcelona Faculty of Law. That means the Carriage House and the Dragon Gate no longer actually physically connect to the WEU’s new headquarters. (Pity, it would have been an appropriate entrance!)

I wonder if any of these men, as they walk through the Palace's Garden of Hesperides contemplating the fate of all humanity, will pause long enough to toss a euro or two into the Fountain of Hercules?

If not familiar with Gaudi and his Gothic style, see the clips of Hiroshi Teshigahara’s film, which, although it has been poorly copied onto You Tube, is a good introduction for all things Gaudi. Hiroshi’s film opens with the appropriate spooky music and close up images of the “Dragon Gate”.

It's an appropriate venue, don't you think?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 9:07
Not to be too picky but your last sentence
contains both the words "Karen Armstrong" and "Catholic"

Anonymous said...

To oldmanoftheski (8:30 AM):

Re: Karen Armstrong's golden rule of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you” . . .

Yes, it's all a very transparent attempt to seduce and recruit luke-warm Christians to go along with their New Age agenda - trying to get everyone to unite under one big ecumenical "umbrella" of confusion.

Meanwhile, they continue to pervert the gospel, making sure to keep their "victims" in the dark about their real goals.

"Peace and harmony" ultimately translates to abandoning their old traditional ("obsolete") religous views and accepting the "new age" view of the "god within" etc.

Anonymous said...

Just leave it to Paul that whenever the word "Catholic" is posted on this blog, he will be sure to find a way to "challenge" it in some way. LOL

Anonymous said...

Karen Armstrong is distorting the fact that the Christian faith is not defined by the Golden Rule. It is defined by faith in Jesus Christ. This is what separates our faith from other religions.

Anonymous said...

The Dragon's Gate is wide. That "other" road is quite narrow, too narrow for the world to fit through.

For those interested...the area around Pedralbes Palace is covered extensively by "street view".

Using Google Earth 4.3 or better, it is possible to zoom in and view Gaudi's Dragon Gate using camera #30 Carrer de Fernando Primo de Rivera. Too bad Google didn't capture a couple of mysterious black limos parked in front of the entrance, or better yet, JS leaning on Ladon's shoulder, pausing for a smoke and maybe a bit of advice.

Anonymous said...

Overheard by one of TV's "talking heads" this morning:

Would Obama asking Hillary to be his Secretary of State possibly serve a dual purpose:

1) get her out of the Senate?
2) keep her from running for President in 2012?

Anonymous said...

Just an observation:

Cameron Diaz is mentioned as part of that Technology Entertainment and Design group (or "TED" or "Tedizens").

Cameron is now one of the wealthiest actresses in Hollywood, primarily due to asking for a percentage of the profits of those hugely successful "Shrek" animated series of movies, where she lends her voice.

Just curious whether very wealthy celebrities ever realize or care whether they are being used by new age organizations?

Anonymous said...

Well - it is official - and here are the loose plans that are more than not - food for the media - but with an acknowledgement to the speculation regarding a global currency.


Anonymous said...

Alan Keyes keeping the dream alive....

Obama spokesman says charge is "garbage".

No matter, the dems control congress now, and can change the law to suit their needs.

Anonymous said...

I came to check the replies to my post. Lots of emotions here. Unfortunatelu incidents like this are likely to increase all around the world and we should study tacticts of Jesus Christ which are tactics for a spiritual warfare. It's still foremost a spiritual battle. I myself have to prepare myself that i don't overact when these things start to happen here.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mariel,
I'll pray for your family members who are walking in darkness. It is painful to see that when we know the truth..

It does look like a well co-ordinated plan doesn't it? I love the second half of Daniel 2:35:

But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

God has a plan to put an end to all of this evil....and
I take great comfort in that and I'm sure you do too!


Anonymous said...


It seems there are mixed reports coming out so far. Some, like the one I posted, have all hands on deck so to speak, as far as what needs to be done. Others have Bush still putting up defenses for global economic reform. However there is still the Obama factor to consider, as he has his people at these meetings as well.

We very well could see more destabilization in markets as a direct result of Bush not wanting to tow the line. Only to have Obama post inauguration push through these policies anyhow. I am curious as to how much of GW's opposition to this is by design. As in the more the public stands to lose the less of a fight they are likely to put up. This could get interesting over the next couple months, as if it wasn't already!


Good find, interesting to see some of the backstage players come out into the open to push their agenda.


Anonymous said...

NEW AGE IS A RESURGENCE OF NAZISM,8599,1858571,00.html or

"This week, Deepak Chopra, medical expert, ayurvedic entrepreneur and New Age savant picks up another title: New Testament author. Chopra's book, Jesus: A Story of Enlightenment, speculates a story of the Messiah-to-be during what might be called his early Wanderjahr....There's a lot of mythology, some of it involving the East. There was a German scholar who claimed in the 1940s that Jesus traveled the Silk Road, lived in India and may have visited a monastery in Lhasa where there were Buddhist texts....One day I was reading the Gospel of John 10: 30, where Jesus says, "I and God are one." The crowd immediately wants to stone him for blasphemy. But he quotes a psalm that says "You are Gods, sons of the most high," which he tells them was addressed to "those to whom the word of God came." He clearly sees himself as equivalent to that group. I interpreted this as "those who have knowledge of God are God." "

Dorothy - Link found at WND

Anonymous said...

To all,

I have an issue that I could use prayers and any help I can get.
My family and I recently moved into a new home, which in and of itself is perfect for us. Not too long after moving in different members of the house(there are 5 of us in all) began to notice strange occurances within our home. Odd things such as doors being open when they had been closed, lights on our 3rd floor attic coming on when no one has been up there for days, foot steps eminating from the 3rd floor at night when no one is up there. As well as a couple of us, myself included, catching brief glimpses of odd things out of the corner of our eye only to turn around to nothing. One such instance included my step dad seeing what appeared to be a dog in my niece and nephews room, which he initially thought was my dog, only to realize that my dog was outside. When he turned back to check again it was gone.

I had a similar experience, as I went to the bathroom I passed the same room, I saw the outline of a full grown person, only to turn and have nothing be there. At first all of us thought these things were the products of over active imaginations, despite most all of us having similar experiences. That was until last night. My niece and nephew spend every other weekend with us and this happens to be the weekend we have them. Last night at around 2am I was awoken to horrendous screams coming from their room, it was my 18 month old nephew. Assuming he had a bad dream, I began to stir from my bed, only to hear my mom in the room with him. Knowing he was attended to I stayed in bed, now wide awake, listening to the sound of my mom comforting him. Once she got him back to sleep she went to leave the room, as she did, she heard what she described as a low whisper, only to have him immediately wake back up screaming again. She initially thought it was my niece but when she turned around my niece was still asleep in her bed.

At this point, I am alert and paying attention in my room. Once again my mom comforts him back to sleep, this time she hasn't even left his side when she hears the same sound coming this time from the other side of the room, only to have the same effect with him waking up crying. Once again she gets him back to sleep, this time as she steps over the kiddie gate into the hall, which I can hear, the CD player in their room turns on at full blast effectively waking both of the kids up in a screaming panic. She says a little prayer comforts them both back to sleep, and from this point forward there is no more occurances for the rest of the night.

For the record let me state, I do not believe in ghosts or paranormal stuff. I however do believe a previous occupant has invited a foul spirit into my home. My brither has since told me that when we were cleaning the house out he found a ouija board, which only confirms my suspicion. I have prayed over the house a couple times, and today I went and got some olive oil for annointing, which I plan to do around dusk, as at this point I have a house full of people. My biggest concern at this point is my brother, whom I have written here about in the past, since he lives with me I am concerned his immoral life may welcome back in what ever I get rid of. I do not have concerns about what needs to be done to cleanse my home as scripture is clear on this, although anyone's personal insight or experiences are surely welcomed. I, however, am concerned about my brother(who does believe this is a ghost or paranormal activity) as mentioned and how to proceed in this regard, as I have prayed about, spoken with, and just generally am concerned about him. prayer would be appreciated, as would any advice or recomendations.


Anonymous said...

Australian Committee Proposal to Pay Mothers Late Abortion Cost for Disabled Babies Compared to Nazis

"The group said paying women a Medicare rebate for second-trimester abortions would save the government about $180,000 a year, due to the high costs of caring for handicapped babies who are allowed to be born."

Before birth or after birth as Peter Singer proposes, remember


Anonymous said...

DouginMi and others,

Just in case this went unnoticed, within the article Doug posted there is a web site listed for the Single Global Currency Assn.
This site has step by step moves the Assn has mad toward their end goal. This is a great find for any who have yet to see it.


Anonymous said...

I think you should pray, as you did, but with
a fellow believer, about the house and everyone in it.
"Wherever two or more of you are gathered together in my name, there will I be also."
The Lord will give you power over demons and to tread on scorpions, etc.

Anonymous said...


This won't help you, but your story makes me think of two movies, "Ghostbusters" and "Close Encounters of the Third Kind"
(remember the scene when the vacuum cleaner and toys run by themselves.) Okay, maybe "Poltergeist."

Keep your kids away from the TV just in case. If you hear a ghostly voice say "get out" maybe you should.

Anonymous said...


Regarding the house, this actually is planned for later this eve. Regarding my brother, this has been done several times. Which is another reason I asked those here for help and prayer as the more that are in agreement the stronger the covenant of faith.


Anonymous said...

Anon 5:33,

I am aware of the movies you refrence, however I refuse to give any foul spirit dominion over me or my home. Greater is He who is in me, than he who is in the world.


Dawn said...

From Drudge:
" A website launched Friday with the backing of technology industry and Hollywood elite urges people worldwide to help craft a framework for harmony between all religions. "

more at link

Anonymous said...

To JD (3:49 PM):

How to get rid of spirits that have infiltrated your home?

You don't have to go to anyone to have demons cast out; you can do this yourself. The bible tells us in Mark 16: 17 that a Christian believer has the authority to cast out demons.

Anonymous said...

For JD - just a suggestion:

You could check the Catholic Churches in your area for a recommemdation of a traditional Catholic priest who would come to your home and sprinkle holy water in all of the rooms (on the windows and the doors) and say some special prayers.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:14,

This is actually the way I intend to do this. I don't see the need to bring in a 3rd party when I have been given the authority to do so. Any other way I see as a lack of personal faith. I have had a house full of people all day so I keep having to wait to do it. It might be for the better as most of the activity seems to happen later at night, I personally want to be able to catch this spirit while its present to ensure it is cast out. I appreciate the support I am receiving here and again ask for all the prayer I can get.


Young Grasshopper said...


I agree with anonymous 6:14 that a Christian has authority over demons. The thing I am worried about is your brother.

These are not ghosts, they are demons, and based on the way in which you described the activity, they are probably not happy that a Christian family has invaded their territory. You and your family members who are Christian have power over these things with your faith and with the precious name of Jesus. However, if any demons have found a willing receptacle in your brother , it may be much more difficult to get rid of them.

I would suggest fasting and prayer. Psalm 91 in particular addresses the problem you are having. You may also need to bring in someone who has cast out demons in the past. My pastor has done this and he has said that without at least two weeks fasting and prayer even the best exorcists have trouble figuring out the way to get rid of some demons. While the demons do not have power over the Christians in your household, your brother does make the problem more difficult to solve. Please remind us of his first name, if you are comfortable with that, so that we can continue to pray for him.

Also, I don't recall if you were around in July when I mentioned my own haunted house story here on this blog, but I wrote about it recently on my own blog, if you are interested.

I wrote about it not to give demonic activity any more attention than it deserves, but because I do think that we are living in times in which we'll be seeing much more of this kind of thing.

Incidentally, the day my 'incident' occurred was on a full moon, (July 18th). I think last night was, too, or at least it appeared that way in the sky. My cat has been crying at sundown for the past three nights straight, though not tonight, thankfully. He was even a naughty boy and 'marked' his territory on the rug, where it meets the outside wall, which he never does. Coincidentally, a squirrel screamed from the tree in the front yard for almost an hour. He just kept looking up at the sky and wailing like a banshee. My husband and I worried that he was rabid but he was gone by today. Our cat almost never acts like this normally. Yet he also acted incredibly weird on the day after Yom Kippur right at sundown. I finally got sick of listening to his wails and so I went outside with my camera to see if I could see anything odd. I didn't. Yet when I came in and downloaded all the random pictures I'd taken everywhere I recorded with my camera a thing in the sky that looked very strange, but which I hadn't seen with my naked eye. It even spooked my husband, when I showed it to him.

Again, we don't want to give the devil more credit than he's due, but I think it's time to realize that there are bound to be an increase in these kinds of demonic activities in these end times.

MY prayers are with you and your family. That's just a horrible story and I feel bad for you being caught in the middle of it.

Anonymous said...

anony 9:27 said,
"Karen Armstrong is distorting the fact that the Christian faith is not defined by the Golden Rule. It is defined by faith in Jesus Christ. This is what separates our faith from other religions."

I believe that it is defined by that rule.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is one of the most well-known principles of Christian Living:

"So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the Law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12 RSV)

"And behold, one came up to Him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?"

And He said to him, "Why do you ask Me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the Commandments." He said to him, "Which?" And Jesus said, "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (Matthew 19:16-19 RSV)


Young Grasshopper said...


The New Age and Nazism are certainly linked.

Chopra says:
"The symbolic language of the crucifixion is the death of the old paradigm; resurrection is a leap into a whole new way of thinking. The language of the Sermon on the Mount — if someone hits you, turn the other cheek — he's making a creative leap, and that's the death of an old way of thinking and the birth of a completely new way. Every spiritual tradition has this idea of death and resurrection. It's not unique to Christianity."

This is the same old, same old, stuff that stinks to high heaven of coming from the same sludge tank, and can be seen from a mile off by a discerning believer.

Sadly, it's worked remarkably well as the apostasy (falling away) predicted before the man of perdition is revealed is certainly under full sway.

Anonymous said...


My brothers name is Patrick. I haven't read of your account but intend to. My dog is usually a pretty good indicator of when things tend to happen as he seems to freak out a bit. Including a night I woke up to him growling, complete with the hair on his back standing up, thinking some one may have been in the house I jumped up only to find nothing. I am not certain how many of these things are here, but have a feeling I am on the verge of finding out. Your concern about my brother directly reflects mine. As I stated in a previous post this thing has NO DOMINION over me, my wife, or my parents as all of us are believers, Patrick is a different story. I appreciate the prayers and kind words. My house is finally starting to clear out, so it appears I am finally going to get a chance to deal with this.


Anonymous said...

Dear JD,
Sorry that I've had such a crazy busy day and that I'm reading your post for the first time now.
You have my prayers tonight and for the tonights to come.


Anonymous said...

I want to clarify my response in my last post to read...

"I believe that it is ALSO defined by that rule."


Anonymous said...

Let's play devil's advocate for a minute.

If I were to verbally abuse a young family, or an entire congregation, not brandish any weapons per se, but just scream obscenities at them and let them know that I wanted them all to die, and then I approached one of the men in the church and really got in his face, should I be surprised if he punches my lights out? From reading some of the comments on this post, I'd have to say "yes", because according to some, if the man I was insulting was really a "true" Christian, he's supposed to just sit there and take it.

Armstrong's interpretation of the Golden Rule is that no religion has an exclusive on "the truth". Live and let live, and don't rock the boat. All are supposed to be as sheep, no rams allowed. If you can't handle that fact, you will be eliminated. And that will be easy.

Anonymous said...

YG, Dorothy, you are right and you are wrong. The New Age is not just a resurgence of Nazism, it echoes back to a time long before that.

Sorry folks, for being a little overly focused on Pedralbes as the "new" location of the Med Union HQ. It’s just that I think the symbolic significance of the location in conjunction with the prophetic implications of the organization are significant.

Besides the Hercules Fountain, and the Dragon Gate, perhaps one of the most famous art works on the grounds of the Royal Palace is the large sculpted figure of “The Goddess”, by Angel Tarrac. I can’t help wondering if history is about to repeat itself. It’s been nearly seven centuries since the Spanish Inquisition began with the accusation that the local Jews were kidnapping “christian” children to feed their ritual slaughter practices. These rumors were of course false, as were charges that Jews were openly blaspheming against the “Virgin Mary”. But the falseness of the accusations were of little concern to those who made them. The fact is, the accusations alone achieved the desired results.

Is there any doubt that we are seeing the beginning of the next Great Inquisition? Fundamentalist “Jews” and “Christians” and “Moslems” are indeed being accused of intolerance. There’s only room for one religion on this planet, and it’s only a matter of time when perhaps many of us will begin facing charges of blasphemy against the “Goddess” of this new age, the Earth Mother, who’s life blood is the foundation for global unity.

The “tipping point” has been achieved. Enough people have been convinced that the enemy is all those who stubbornly cling to their "religion and their guns". We have to be demeaned and stigmatized and made to feel as guilty as possible first, and then we will more easily be disarmed. Once that happens, we can be castrated.

Anonymous said...


Obama ‘Network’ Developing a Rift

A vast electronically linked network of volunteers, community organizers, and activists raised record amounts of money for the Barack Obama campaign and helped him win the White House.

Now a rift is showing up in that network, with some members believing it should be linked closely with the Democratic Party apparatus and others insisting it remain more independent.

“The Obama machinery relied heavily on idealistic political outsiders committed to breaking free from old ways of doing politics. The worry is that these enthusiastic activists might drift away if they are turned over to the Democratic National Committee,” the Los Angeles Times observed.

The Obama network includes an estimated 10 million e-mail addresses for activists and supporters, and the campaign raised more than $650 million from some 3 million donors.

In California alone, the campaign’s list contains over 790,000 names, including 40,000 volunteers who made more than 10 million telephone calls during the campaign.

Campaign manager David Plouffe indicated which side of the developing rift he was on when he recently used Obama’s e-mail list to ask for donations to help the DNC repay its debt.

But Steve Hildebrand, Obama’s deputy campaign manager, cautioned that Obama got elected with a significant number of independent voters and a fair number of Republicans.

“And the agenda that he ran on is not just a Democratic agenda, it’s a broad agenda,” he told the Times.

“If all the communication comes from the DNC, it may not engage as many people as we’re going to need to engage at the grass-roots level.”

Hildebrand also said an independent network could be used to challenge Democratic legislators who don’t follow Obama’s agenda."

That should send up red flags. Wasn't there an individual back some 70 years who the establishment thought they could control once he got in office? It's a powerful army to use against those opposing him. It was already reported he is taking this networked information with him to the White House.


Anonymous said...

To all,

I am greatfull for the overwhelming response I got from many here. Unfortunately, I had to push back the gathering of my family in prayer over my home until this evening as I had relatives visiting until about 1am. By this point my wife and parents were exhausted and not up for the task. I myself did stay up and say my own prayers. To which thank the Lord, we had a quiet night. Continued prayer and support are still greatly appreciated.


Anonymous said...


A 7.5 quake has struck Indonesia. There was initially a tsunami warning issued which since has been lifted.


Anonymous said...

the credit for that article goes to my friend Ray Gano, here is his web sight - Constance had interviewed him previously.


Anonymous said...

Anonymous 11:212
Yes, basically.
Why should a Christian not " just take it"?
Jesus allowed them to insult, slap, punch,
ridicule and whip him before they even got
around to crucifying him. We're certainly not
above our Master.
And the Apostles were all one by one martyred.
Your viewpoint is world centered, and unbelieving.
Jesus spelled it out so many times and so many different ways. We are not to return violence for violence. Period. Why advocate for the devil ?
There is a God. He does see it and there is a judgement day, AND there is a paradise which
will be eternal.

If you were to read St Augustine's treatise on
this subject, I'm sure he'd be a whole lot more eloquent than me.
For me there would be a big difference between
what they might do to me, and what they might try to do to my family. All bets are off then, but
that church group in Lansing clearly won that battle.

Anonymous said...


You can be a non-Christian and follow the Golden Rule. If you believe in Jesus Christ and accept him as your personal savior, that makes you a Christian. It's the ultimate core belief. You can't be a Christian without this belief.

Anonymous said...


Obama is certainly larger than the DNC. They do not realize what they have. I see a battle brewing between Pelosi and Obama. Who's really in charge? It should be interesting to see what happens.

Anonymous said...


I just peeked at your friend Ray's site. While, like many my views seem to differ a bit as he is pre-trib, I am more pre-wrath, it is still good to see another warning of the times in which we live. Thanks again though for the link, as I read through the SGCA web page I found many new things. Not the least of which was a very pro statement made by congressman Ron Paul which was an eye opener, especially when one takes into account the drum beating he has done of late. I have yet to be able to do further digging into this one statement to see if anything was taken out of context, but given the nature of the statement I don't quite see how it's possible, unless his stance is pro global currency, and against global governance, which would make no sense. Either that or his stance on the issue has changed since the statement was made, which politicians are known to do. Thanks again for this.


Young Grasshopper said...

Old Man of the Ski- I agree with you completely and absolutely, but limited my comment a great deal. I am not welcome here in case you haven't noticed.

However, I was hoping that Dorothy would look at the hints that I've given her recently that show that this occultic New Age network can be traced back much further than Nazism to the Garden of Eden and even before.

Dorothy is incredibly bright and since she is currently of the opinion that she can look at certain stuff and not be influenced by it, I was hoping she'd look at what I sent her, and see what to me is obvious and yet not obvious, and figure the rest of this stuff out for the rest of us who are trying to figure out the networks perpetrating the occultic end of the globalist's plans, and can't quite make the pieces fit together completely. Constance, Farmer and Joyce, and Susanna and Oldmanoftheski are key pieces of the puzzle as well, IMHO, as they all have a unique spin on these things that could help put it all together for the rest of us. (Hate to put any pressure on anyone, but that's the way I say it.)Problem is that the Great Deceiver creates friction between the people that have access to the keys, so that in the end, the truth can't come out. I'm not trying to speak in code, but the truth is that we are all overlooking certain things, (for reasons I blame on the enemy) that if we worked together, would become apparent.

I do not think it was an accident that I found out about the Book of Enoch this past week.I knew about Enoch from Genesis 5, but had no idea that there was a book of the bible called the book of Enoch that has been taken out of the Canon of the bible for some reason I have not been able to discern.

Today, my pastor preached on David and Goliath, the giant. God has an amazing way of showing us when we are on the right path, and the pastor's preaching today was an affirmation of where I thought the Lord was leading me in my search for answers to the questions that I've been having.

Isn't it funny that David killed Goliath right smack in the middle of the forehead where his 3rd eye is located?

The giants or Nephalim, or heroes of renowned, introduced things onto the earth that are now at the very heart of the New Age- things like herbalism, astrology, metallurgy,antimony, "the resolving of enchantments", and astronomy.

I could not for the life of me figure out why Rachel and Leah were messing around with mandrake plants in Genesis30 until I read the book of Enoch. Suddenly it made perfect sense.

The Nephalim were supposed to stay in heaven, if I read Enoch correctly, but their merging with the women of the earth(born of sin through Adam and Eve) is what created the perversions of sexuality and idol worship that is what we are seeing today in these end times.

Since Dorothy has encouraged me to keep an open mind, I certainly hope that she'll look past the chess-winning moves and delve into corners that she has poo-pooed in the past.

OLD MAN- you are also very astute- I am looking forward to checking out your most recent links , but have been a little distracted as a result of the dismantling of my blog.

My hubby has made it very clear that I am going to be accused of being an accomplice to any sick nutcase that tries to hurt Obama, as a result of the words I've written on my blog-that connect him to an anti-messiah figure. For that reason I am taking it down, as I do not want to be involved in anything that would hurt another person, or his family, Obama especially since I think there is good in him.

Nevertheless, a lot of work went into the research that I did on my blog. I am trying to save it, in the event it can be used for good purposes in helping my own family become educated to the truth about the New Age and the Obama connections in the future, in the event I am gone.

Sorry to have made this comment longer than expected, Old Man, I was only trying to agree with you.

I was shocked to discover that I was getting about 600 or more hits a day on my blog in the past week. This is not a good omen of things to come, in my humble opinion. My blog is 85% dismantled. This time it's a done deal, since Obama is now pres-Elect. Constance has been extremely careful about what she has said about Obama. I have not. I am doomed, and I know it. But I'll take it down to please the hubby, so the hubby won't think he is doomed as well, LOL.

Anonymous said...

JD - you're welcome brother, praying for you.


Anonymous said...
More lies concerning global warming. Lies and dam-ed lies.
Oldmanoftheski said: “Is there any doubt that we are seeing the beginning of the next Great Inquisition? Fundamentalist “Jews” and “Christians” and “Moslems” are indeed being accused of intolerance.” Where are Moslems tolerant? Those who have designed this tension using Moslems may have a tiger by the tail, and I think (“I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus. . .”Rev.20:4) is the Moslem influence in the tribulation.

Anonymous said...

Constance-If you go off of micro effect you might wish to consider It is free audio with interactive chat. Please? I just found you on microeffect, although as a Michigander and reader of Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow, I have known of you for several years. I want to hear more of what you have to say. Fay

Anonymous said...

Maybe it’s just a matter of semantics here but I definitely agree you must be born again #1.

I do question whether anyone could REALLY follow the Golden Rule without the power of a changed heart because what is interesting in Jesus' response is that the first three commandments regarding idolatry, using the Lord's name in vain, and the Sabbath commandment are omitted. It seems that in the moral theology of Jesus, our love for God is expressed by our love for our neighbor:

“This is my commandment: love one another as I love you.” (Jn 15:12)

“Whoever says he is in the light, yet hates his brother, is still in the darkness.”

“We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, "I love God," but hates his brother, he is a liar; for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. This is the commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.” (1 Jn 4:18-21)

that is why I said "ALSO".


Anonymous said...

This is a composite comments section. Some people are interested in tying New Age to end times. Others just want to encourage others to believe in Christianity. Others are into occult symbolism. Some are interested in the history of the occult, while others see the connection between gnosticism and the history of the occult. Some are interested in supernatural phenomena and UFOs. There's enough going on to keep everybody busy.

I can't help you because I'm more interested in the connection between current day politics and the occult. Yes I know the occult has a history, but I consider it more important that Obama may be setting up his own operation than what Nephilim were doing 6,000 years ago. I don't need to support my statements about the history of the Nazi movement by analyzing what I find in the Bible. It's enough for me to know that the occult is a violation of the commandment not to worship false gods and what happens to a community when they move in that direction. I don't need to know the history of every false god in the past.

It's enough for me to go back to Blavatsky and Bailey for information on the New Age movement. Based on Wurmbrand's writings, I believe the communist movement has an occult basis. and I have the Webb books, but I don't want to go that far back to understand New Age. I don't want to go back to the golden calf. I'll leave all of that to the academics who have access to large libraries, support communities and the ability to take time to do research for books.

The fact is I'm not a Renaissance woman, capable of absorbing all of the branches of knowledge. I know my limits.

You have to know what you are interested in and pursue that area of research on your own. I can't do it for you.

I think you are wrong when you say you aren't welcome here. I post many things I consider important and receive no feedback on them. I've called things I consider important to Constance's attention, but she is too overwhelmed to follow them up. She has her own path of information to follow. It's not that our information in unimportant, it's just that there are too few people who are willing to do the work to post here. If you consider something important, post your information for others to read.

That's how it is.


Anonymous said...

You might want to check out this website. There are many books that were not included in the Bible as we know it. Enoch was only one of those.

This is only one of the links on that site. My guess is that much of the material is duplicated, but even so, I trust that what's there is enough for us to understand monotheistic morality.


Young Grasshopper said...

Thanks for the link, Dorothy, I'll check it out.

As for what I was (unsuccessfully) trying to say, I'll try once more.

My dear liberal Jewish friend Sally spends a heck of a lot of money on things I know I wouldn't spend money on, even if I had the money to spend. Recently she bought tickets to the John and Mabel Ringling's exhibit and lecture at the Ringling Museum and Asolo Theatre on "To live Forever, Ancient Egyptian Treasures."

If Sally was able to understand why there is an effigy of Satan on the magnificent outside of the famed Ca d’Zan mansion in Sarasota,Florida, and realize how her attraction to all things astrological and occultic, from mercury going retrograde to her Bach flower remedies, are connected in a far-off sense to Nazi Germany, I doubt she'd be so inclined to walk down these paths.

I'm working on Sally and that's all I can do.

I understand what you are saying, and I applaud you for all you have done for many years. I am just sorry that my wacky right brain is unable to grasp some of the things that could help me show, beyond a question of a doubt, why a world created by an all-loving and all-merciful God has gone so far off-course. If I could do that, I'm sure I could convince all the friends and relatives that I used to have, and have still, that I have just been trying to help them see the truth for their own good.

Keep doing what you've been doing. And I'll keep doing what I've been doing. That's all we can do, I guess.


Anonymous said...

Read the email I sent out on bias in the media. An overload of bad manipulative information combined with free will brings about the results you talk about. Rabbis, priests and ministers aren't doing their job to teach monotheism and those who know what is going on aren't willing to hold their feet to the fire. It's so much easier to run away and find a comfortable community than to take a stand.

If you are having trouble getting through to your Jewish friends, concentrate on your Christian ones.


Anonymous said...

The "golden rule" is all about the ethic of reciprocity, so you don't have to be a Christian to believe in it in one form or another.

"Love thy neighbor as thyself."

Jewish Rabbi Akiba emphasized the importance of Leviticus 19:18:
"Thou shalt not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD."

Ancient Greek philosophy:
"Do not do to your neighbor what you would take ill from him." (Pittacus)

"Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill."

"Nothing which breathes, which exists, which lives, or which has essence or potential of life, should be destroyed or ruled over, or subjugated, or harmed, or denied of its essence or potential."

"Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." (T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien)

New Agers:
Be a good citizen of the earth.

Anonymous said...

To the last poster well said.

Here is a video of a lady espousing the importance of the golden rule

It would be interesting to know more the trails of TED conferences, Sapling foundation, Chris Anderson and so on. These folks go back to the early 80's.

Rich Warren, Bono, Clinton and others have been real active.

Also direct connection to the AoC. The lady definitely speaks with the spirit of antichrist.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I don't believe in Santa Claus and the advice to be good for goodness sake. I think that's the billboard that's up in NYC.

Morality has to do with guidelines in making very tough decisions in circumstances that which offer alternative possible answers.

Just how would the sweetie pie comments work when one has to make a decision whether to pull the plug to end a life or abort a handicapped child or steal from someone who has too much money or kill when a person feels threatened?

How does it answer the question as to how to treat a parent who is difficult and overbearing?

Excuse me for being blunt, but the advice you gave works if everyone has a lobotomy.


Anonymous said...


You are right about that and yes, I did read the article. But that's only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the whole story.

At the very top of the triangle are the people who are responsible for making sure that the media is biased, the schools are teaching revisionist history, the churches are teaching heresy or keeping their mouths shut altogether, and that the global economies are crashing.

They hate Jews and they hate Christians because they hate God-my God to be specific.

They actually believe that Lucifer mated with Eve and conceived Cain in the Garden of Eden. They believe that he is the God of Light and our God, my God, the God of creation is evil and that he treated Cain unfairly and punished him and made him wander because He knew the truth about Cain's father. That is why these people tried to wipe out the Jews, because they were chosen by God to bring about God's purpose here on earth. They will go after Christians next, since the Jews are going to accept the anti-messiah before realizing he's their enemy. In truth, many Jews have already bought into their agenda, which is why most of them supported Obama.

The Catholic church is their next major target because they know how powerful it still is and the influence it still has. Wait until "Angels and Demons" (Da Vinci Code 2) comes out in March and then you'll see a falling away from the Catholic church in drove. That's my prediction.

These same people claim to have proof of everything I just stated above. They said if they show the proof it will basically cause total annihilation.

Whether you believe any of that or not doesn't matter. The occultist globalists running things believe it and that's why things have gotten to this point.

Without going to the very source of the problem with the biased media it's pretty difficult to even began to solve the problem, wouldn't you say?

And yes, free will has allowed people to take the easy path and the sinful path- free will and temptation through demonic activity as perpetrated through the same source.

So in my opinion, which is only my opinion just as you have your opinion, it's hard to turn people from the New Age that you've been warning people about for years if you don't give them the whole story.


Anonymous said...

Dorothy ,
One thing I forgot to say, is that they also believe that they are the descendants of the true God-Lucifer.

There. Now it all makes sense whether you believe in Santa Claus or not.

And no, I am not anonymous 8:08.


Anonymous said...

Hi Rudi,

Thank you for your kind words re: Bill Donohue.

Anyone who knows anything about Bill Donohue knows that he is not the kind of man to just stand by and watch a fellow Christian's religious and civil rights be encroached upon by ANY radical group.

Anonymous said...

Where did Rudi's comment go?

Constance Cumbey said...

Dear friends,

I'll admit I have been licking my wounds so to speak over the suicide attempt that totaled my greatly beloved, always reliable Corollo automobile. I put my little piece up on the new site today without reading the pieces here and am so very encouraged to see that we are on the same page and that when I am less than vigilant, you are watching!

Thanks to all,


Constance Cumbey said...

Just reading my somewhat awkward verbiage on the last (composed without glasses and contact lenses out). The suicide attempt was that of a 28 year old man who jumped in front of my car -- not mine!


Anonymous said...

Hi Paul,

First of all, please understand that there is absolutely no intention on my part to bring this up merely for the sake of being argumentative or getting "one up" on you or anyone else.

Actually, judging from your posts, I like you. I respect you and think you are a really smart guy.

Plus I have had a lot of fun with you on at least one occasion.


This is not a "trick question." I am not trying to manipulate you or do anything else that might be construed as dishonest. I am just... plain.... asking. And your answer will not change the fact that I like you. :-)

Anonymous said...


According to your own religious tradition....... either get yourself a Catholic or Protestant exorcist or get out!!!

Anonymous said...

The Karen anderson mentioned is the person in the TED video I posted. Nauseating.

The roots of TED conferences and the founder go back to 1984...

Anonymous said...

Way off topic but...

PM Brown is pushing for a system of presumed consent for organ donation. One would have to opt out of the system. Here is an interesting paragraph in the editorial:

"The idea lets in an evil and dangerous political principle – the assumption that the state owns our bodies. Brown and Labour governments before him have tried to nationalise our private lives; now he wants to nationalise our private parts.

The thinking behind this is pure socialism. You and all your assets belong to the state to tax, teach, reeducate, redistribute and, generally speaking, harvest as it sees fit."

The entire editorial can be read here:

It's called: Even in Death our Organs are not for the PM to Snatch


Anonymous said...


I am not quite sure how to respond to your comments. Are you stating that as an average person of faith, since I am not an ordained exorcist, that I need a third party who is? I ask because our Lord clearly sent His disciples out to cast out demons in His name. Since Christ's commandments to his followers are the ones by which we are to live, I can not see how one could come to this conclusion. I am simply trying to understand the root of your statement and in no way mean any disrespect.


Don said...

November 17, 2008

2:30 am MST finds me wide awake in bed with Dorothy's name on my mind.

Either she's in trouble and needs some prayer (tried that) or The Lord wants me to get up and respond to her pile of crap.

(more likely my ego wants me to to get up and respond to her pile of crap)
At any rate here I am and here we go.


I put that in CAPS so you would be able to read it.

The last time I looked the title at the top of this page said "My perspective - What "CONSTANCE" Thinks". Not what Dorothy thinks, or says or whatever.

I can't find any eveidence that Dorothy even exists. Whoever signs her posts as Dorothy seems to think that posting anonymously protects her somehow.

Unfortunately, Google has already proven they will turn their logs over to the authorities when subpoenaed. All that is needed is the server logged time of posting and the actual IP records and voila! instant identification.
I am a webmaster of many websites so can assure you this is so.

There is no such thing as anonymous!!!!

So seeing as how you lack the guts to get an account and log in when posting and seeing as how YOU don't have a blog somewhere I have to ask, when did your name become Constance?

What are my credentials?

I was exposing the New Age Movement before Constance even heard of it. I was distributing Johnny Todd tapes in 1978 and fighting battles with Jehovah's Witnesses on street corners in front of department stores, and challenging ECKs on radio programs.
I was among the earliest subscribers to "The New Age Monitor".
How many copies of that photocopied publication do YOU have in your files?

I exchanged letters with Constance when she first published "Hidden Dangers" and shared my own experience with her.

I'm no 'newbie' lady, if you even ARE a lady.

I began driving Jewish women around to "Friends of Israel" prayer fellowship meetings in 1976 because I had fallen in Love with a Jew. His Name is Yeshua Ha Mesheach.
I put up with endless self-centered crap from those women because I wanted to reach them for Yeshua. I spent thousands of hours in Psalm 122. "Praying for the Peace of Jerusalem." I led many Jews to a saving knowledge of their Messiah.

I produced radio broadcasts for "The Friends of Israel" fellowship and was one of it's main supporters. I have been friends with some of the most influential Jews in the world.

I have walked the streets of Jerusalem, and the desert of Sinai.
I have swam in the Dead Sea, and bathed naked in the waterfall at En Gedi.

I have tangled with terrorists in Tiberias and on the temple mount.

I have been interrogated by Mossad at Ben Gurion.

Do you really think I'm afraid of you?

I don't need some 'meshuggin' telling me to mind my words.

I won't be scared off my the likes of you Dorothy or whoever you are.

Climb back into your Kabbalah and your Talmud.

Constance is a follower of Jesus Christ. Not a follower of Dorothy Anonymous.

You want to read my 'forum'. just click on my name at the top of this post. You should be able to manage that.

As to those who still have some comments about defending loved ones against violence from criminals, you should tell your loved ones just how you really feel about them. Tell them what they can expect from you if they are attacked
Tell them you are just following orders.

You are white washed sepulchures.

You want to appear righteous but are unwilling to stand for what is right.

Someone quoted scripture to me and never even bothered to read what they wrote.

I will repeat it here.:

"David, exclaimed to the Lord in 2Sam.22:40,41 "For You have armed me with strength for the battle; You have subdued under me those who rose against me. You have also given me the necks of my enemies, so that I destroyed those who hated me."

This was a man after G_d's own heart. Don't tell me that fierceness is not of G_d.

I need no one to tell me about obedience. I visit the cross daily. I am a sinner saved by grace. Not some appearance of meekness, but "By His Blood".

I will stand against the doctrine of the Pharisees. I refuse to be bound by your rules.

All things are lawful to me.
Whether they edify is the issue.

As a few others have wisely said. If the L_rd rebuke me, so be it. He has the right to rebuke me. You don't. Who are you to judge another man's servant?

I will continue to offer comments here until Constance herself asks me to leave. Then out of respect for her I will do so.
Otherwise the rest of you.....

Peave be with with, my peace I leave with you, not peace as the world gives, give I you, but peace that passes understanding.

And to those who would commit violent acts against Christians in our own houses of worship, you better not try it where I worship.

It's now 4:08 I'm going back to bed.
My mind is clear.


Don said...


I was the first person to offer financial or other help to Constance just for the record, over on the original post about the suicide attempt. So those who felt it necessary to rebuke me for not caring about her situation, are way off base.

I only suggested the car issue might get more constuctive response on a separate topic.

my bad.


Anonymous said...

To answer your question, I guess
I'd have to point out that Jesus, unlike
anyone else who has ever lived on earth,
had the ability to see directly into the
heart of whomever he was talking to.
He saw the moneychangers and saw
that they were snakes (vipers) and
Secondly, he was the son of the living
In short he is the only one who
could righteously judge anyone.
He had jurisdiction so to speak..
He did and said a lot of things that
none of us could possibly do. None of
us has ever healed a blind man either.
Plus, He didn't use a sword or a knife or
a club. He probably didn't even hurt those
moneychangers physically, he just drove
them out.
I would have thought you would have liked
my comment; with the reference to
St Augustine and all.
But thanks for the feedback and God
bless you Susanna.
I like you too.

Maybe you should have tossed out that
second-to-last comment. I've written a lot of things at 3:00 am which I subsequently thought
better of. I'm really just referring to the first
few sentences in particular. In fact I'm
actually impressed by some of your life
experiences and I'd want people to know
about them too, if it were me.
Interrogated by Mossad ? WOW! And don't
think I'm being facetious or cynical. I
really am impressed. It's just the anger
surrounding it that seems unfortunate.
Dorothy used to come after me quite
a lot and I used to retaliate quite a lot.
Not any more. I assume she has my
comments blocked or just ignores them.

You do know that Constance and
Dorothy are very close friends, right ?
Not that it's any of my business.

Be careful. Jesus sent out his Apostles
and the Seventy, and gave them authority
over the demons. I also noticed that when the woman touched the hem of his garment,
some translations quote him to say: "...I
perceive that virtue is gone out of me",
but another translation says I perceive
that POWER has gone out of me". If virtue
and power are synonymous, then it follows
that an exorcist had better be very virtuous.
God be with you and your family.
_Just my two cents_

Time to prune some trees while the
sun shines.
I'm still free.
I'm still an American.
I'm still unbelievably blessed beyond
what I deserve.
I'm still wrapped in His grace and I'm
forever grateful.

Bless the Lord oh my soul !
Let all that is within me bless his
Holy name.

Anonymous said...

To primegood (6:09 AM):

It is important for you to know that Dorothy has been a valuable part of Constace Cumbey's life for over 26 years. Constance couldn't have made it without Dorothy's tireless help in researching the New Age Movement - Constance from a Christian perspective (the Antichrist) and Dorothy from a Jewish perspective (its Nazi routes).

Dorothy is a no holds barred shoot straight from the hips, sometimes carmudgeon (with a heart of gold) who tells it like she sees it.

We've all had our "moments" with Dorothy, but have learned to like and respect her (even when our feelings get hurt).

Stand up to Dorothy and let her know what you think and how you feel? Of course, just make sure that you've done your "homework" when you decide to debate her.

--A Dorothy fan (in spite of my previous "cuts & bruises") :~)

Anonymous said...

I read everything that I write. I answer to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords for what I say.
Since you didn't take the time to comprehend my point, I'll clarify it for you now: God has no problem allowing us to DEFEND our families nor to destroy HIS enemies; But DAVID DID NOT destroy by his own strength, nor his own will, nor his own might, BUT by the STRENGTH, WILL, and MIGHT of the LORD, by HIS LEADING ALONE, and to HIS GLORY ALONE.
All I hear you stating is that you choose to defend whatever PrimeGood wills to defend for himself.
Perhaps a little refresher in Gospel 101 would be helpful to you:
"A) Blessed are the poor in spirit [humble, lowliness of mind] for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
B) Blessed are those who mourn [who have a broken and contrite heart] for they shall be comforted.
C) Blessed are the MEEK [to be bowed down] for they shall inherit the earth.
D) Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled.
E) Blessed are the MERCIFUL for they shall obtain mercy.
F) Blessed are the PURE IN HEART for they shall see God.
G) Blessed are the PEACEMAKERS for they shall be called sons of God.
H) Blessed are those who are PERSECUTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS' SAKE for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
J) Blessed are you when they REVILE AND PERSECUTE YOU and say all kinds of evil against you for MY SAKE.
K) Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they PERSECUTED the prophets who were before you."
-MATTHEW 5:3-12

Now tell me, please, where in your post was there a display of humility, contriteness, meekness, mercy, or peacemaking? What spirit spoke through your words? I do not recognize it as the Holy Spirit for God gave the characteristics of the Holy Spirit as well:
"But the fruit of the Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self-Control..."
-Galatians 5:22,23; "If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another." -Gal. 5:25,26

My name is Shaun, should you care to know. I do not "hide" behind the abreviation of my name, I chose it because it's simple.

-SV (AKA Shaun)

Anonymous said...

To peacebringer7 (8:29 PM):

Thank you so much for sharing that "interesting" Karen Armstrong video (from February, 2008 in Monterey, California).

That's the first time I've ever seen or heard her speak -- and I definitely agree with you that she speaks "with the spirit of the antichrist".

Anonymous said...


President-elect Obama will soon be the most powerful man in the world, and we must pray for his conversion, and for the conversion of our leaders.

God will continue to pour out His graces during these most trying of times.

I am not an optimist in this regard, but I am obliged nonetheless.

Anonymous said...


Add Oprah Winfrey to that list. She desperately needs our prayers.

Anonymous said...

To JD (1:51 AM):

I absolutely agree with Susanna's comments in her 12:15 AM post.

I would also like to add the following. If you had a medical emergency, you would not try to treat yourself; you would call a doctor.

The same is true of a haunted house. You may need to call a professional. Special prayers of the rite of exorcism and holy water are powerful tools against demon activity.

Here are some interesting facts regarding the background and TRUE story behind William Peter Blatty's 1971 best selling novel, "The Exorcist" and the 1973 movie (which received 10 academy award nominations) directed by William Friedkin.

"The Exorcist" was based on the true story a 13-year-old boy from Mount Rainier, Maryland (in the Washington, D.C. area) in 1949. (The movie changed it to a young girl, played by Linda Blair.)

In 1949, the first exorcism was performed by local priest Father E. Albert Hughes and then underwent a final and successful rite of exorcism by Father William Bowdern at Alexian Brothers Hospital in St. Louis, Missouri in the spring of 1949.

The family’s entire haunting episode revealed that only after 20to 30 performances of the ancient ritual of exorcism was the devil finally cast out of the boy.

FYI: Father John J. Nicola,” the then 43-year-old assistant director of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in D.C., regarded as one of the country’s leading authorities on exorcism, was called upon to serve as the movie’s technical consultant.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous (1:35 & 1:37 PM):

I agree that we need to pray for both Obama and Oprah that there minds and hearts will be changed.

God is STILL in charge - and with God, ALL things are possible.


Don said...

Paul et al

If Dorothy wants to harrass me from here on out I will just ignore her.

I simply had to set the record straight about who I am.

I don't care if she is a close friend of the pope.

It wasn't Constance who rebuked me, and as I stated if SHE did, I would respect her wishes.

I see no incongruence with my 2nd last paragraph.

It's peace in the midst of turmoil that defines the presence of G_d.

Yes it was Mossad that grilled me for over 2 hours as I was about to fly to Amsterdam. They identified themselves as Israeli special security. The entire El Al area of Ben Gurion airport was full of guards armed with machine guns.
There was a high terorist alert.

It was May 1979.

There had been 3 separate bombings in Israel the previous week, one a half block from where I was standing. The ground shook and everyone screamed and ran.

I had inadverdantly gotten mixed up with a couple of PLO activists (that's being polite) and was tricked/pressured into placing a phone call which apparently triggered a watch list.

I knew nothing about them.

I was just a naive tourist. Maybe just a bit too full of himself.

I also had the misfortune of looking very middle-eastern.

There wasn't an orifice they left unexplored.

My reporter's cassette recorder was completly disassembled and left for me to put back together.

I finally was allowed to depart Tel-Aviv and flew to Schipol airport in Holland.
Once there I was followed through the canal district in Amsterdam by two men, who looked very out of place, and who took photos of me.

I was a nervous wreck by this time because I realized I had gotten tangled in something way beyond my imaginings.

The air ticket had been given to me by a wealthy Jew-ess, Ethel M. who was a broadcaster I worked with. Her husband (deceased) had been the head of the largest soft drink bottler in North America, and a major contributor to the various funds supporting the establishment of the Jewish state of Israel.
I travelled in some interesting circles.
Maybe too interesting.

I was young, naive and full of faith. But lacked grounding in many critical areas.

Part of the problem, I think, was I had been witnessing to Freemasons and had won one, a Jack T. to Jesus.

Jack was an influential Jew, who when he renounced the Masonic realm and destroyed all his paraphenalia, (he was a 32nd degree) caused a big stir. A lot of people were really upset. Jack's family and his friends were furious. I had been told I was messing in things that were none of my business.

The only materials I had in those days was the John Todd tapes, and some materials I got personally from Jack Chick of Chick publications.

Jack T. gave me a copy of the "Pr0t0c0ls of Zi0n" and I was trying to fit it into the jigsaw puzzle of my own experience with the "Masters of Shamballah", which along with books by T. Lobsang Rampa, had been my occult guidebooks before my salvation.

Once saved, I felt bullet proof.
I was too indiscreet, and had no idea the NA was as established in the Episcopalian church as it turned out to be. When I spoke to church groups, I openly stated I knew the church had been infiltrated by occult workers (I just knew them as 'witches' at that point - it wasn't until Constance's book that the whole New Age thing became clear).

I found my steps dogged by individuals who tried to get my recording company into weird deals. I had a 16 track mobile production studio, and I was offered an ownership role in a night club at a place called Devil's Lake. I declined the offer.

I became involved with a ministry to children who had been satanically abused, and took part in a group baptism, led by a woman evengelist Karen M. from the USA who was very paranoid and carried a loaded handgun in her purse, (which she had concealed and smuggled into Canada with her).
We had an immersion baptism for about fifteen children at a lake in central Alberta.
There were guards in the woods around the lake, as Karen expected some kind of assault to take place, because these kids had been taken away from their abusive parents and placed in foster care.
Nothing happened but it was a very uneasy event.
Fifteen kids DID commit their lives to Christ that day and were also baptised in the Holy Spirit. Praise God.

After Constance's book, The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow, I realized I had been involved with many aspects of the New Age which did not on the surface seem occultic. I had attended retreats at Naramata in British Columbia in what was called then "The Human Potential Movement". From 1971 to 1975 my wife and I were deeply involved in the HPM, going through Gestalt therapy, Primal Therapy, EST, and so on. We ran naked through the River valley in an exercise to connect our spirits to the 'earth spirits'.
For several years we were 'counselled' and tutored by a prominent psychiatrist who later committed suicide. He ran therapy groups we attended weekly. We spent an enormous amount of money to connect to our 'inner selves'.
We were connected to a group out of Spokane WA. who were powerful leaders in this thing. We attended workshops on visual imaging by Joe Parranto,a major Esalen teacher.

It was at a workshop entitled "The Human Potential Movement vs The Church" that I first heard Jesus speak to me. I was not a committed Christian. I didn't understand what was going on. Nevertheless,
He said "Why seek ye the living among the dead".
I began to suspect I was in trouble.

It was about a year and a half later He cornered me and I surrendered. This whole presentation of my experience is disjointed and unplanned. I apologize.

I share these things not to exalt myself. I was weak and desperate and seeking affirmation.

If anyone recognizes themselves in my story, I want to reach out to them. I was trapped in a world I felt was real, even super real. I believed I was destined to be part of a social transformation. In truth I was being prepared to spend eternity in Hell. If you need help to break free, you can e-mail me. I can help you.

Thank G_d for Yeshua. My Jesus, My L_rd.

I come by my defensiveness honestly. Until you've been made a target and hunted, you have no idea what it feels like. When I broke with the people I had been apprenticing under in the occult, I found myself fearing for my life day and night. The guy I had 'indentured' myself to held a knife to my throat and promised to end my life. I gave him my car to get him out of my house at 3:30 in the morning. I never saw my car again.
I know bullies and tyrants. I no longer fear them because I trust God to protect me, but as David wrote, "For You have armed ME with strength for the battle; You have subdued under ME those who rose against ME. You have also given ME the necks of my enemies, so that I destroyed those who hated ME."

I take that to mean ME.


Anonymous said...

Boy, if a stranger came to this thread and read the sheer variety of comments here he'd think this is a meeting place for nutballs.

Great testimony Primegood!

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous (2:57 PM):

And just who (maybe besides you) are the "nutballs" on this blog?

At least have the courage to be specific.

Anonymous said...

You know what anonymous 3:19?

It's really sad when people totally lose all sense of humor, and aren't even able to recognize an attempt to add some levity to the heaviness of the topics here.

I meant absolutely no harm in my last comment whatsoever and actually meant it as a compliment to the diversity of this group that we could speak succinctly on topics that range from car shopping and liability to architecture and symbolism in Spain to ghostbustering and exorcism to praying for each other. And from there to politics and Nazisim to Gnosticism to the Golden Rule and being detained by the Mossad.

If others don't think a stranger would find that remarkable than yes, I guess I am the only nutball here.

Looking for mirth in all the wrong places,
Maryanne/ Young Grasshopper

PS: I really need to remind myself that I don't belong here, as I am now convinced that I have not imagined the hostility here.

Anonymous said...

And by the way anonymous 3:19, since I have had the "Courage " to identify myself, why don't you do likewise?


Anonymous said...


I was speaking strictly out of concern for your spiritual well-being....with no disrespect intended on my part either.

As a Catholic I would certainly ask a priest to come and expel any demons that might be lurking about, but I understand that this might not be the solution sought by a member of a Protestant communion.

I was under the impression that Protestant ministers were the ones routinely called upon to help in situations such as yours.

In any case, I shall certainly pray for your deliverance!

Anonymous said...

To Maryanne/Young Grasshopper:

In your 2:57 PM post, there was no hint that you were using humor and not expressing hostility.

However, in your 4:26 PM post, you have clarified everything to the point that I feel that I owe you an apology. So, I am genuinely sorry.

I choose to remain "Anonymous" only because, as a devout Catholic, I have been made to feel like I "am not welcome here" on more than one occasion in the past.

--From Anonymous (@ 3:17 PM)

Anonymous said...


I DID like your coment....with the reference to St. Augustine and all. And I am not saying that your response would have been wrong. I was simply interested in how you would have interpreted Jesus' use of a whip as described in the Gospels.

I reread your comment because I was a bit tired last night. Upon rereading your comment I realize that you may have answered my question when you said:

For me there would be a big difference between
what they might do to me, and what they might try to do to my family. All bets are off then, but
that church group in Lansing clearly won that battle.

When Jesus drove the moneychangers out of the temple it was because of the way they were dishonoring His Father and His Father's house "turning His house of prayer into a den of thieves."

But when the attacks were against Jesus personally, He turned the other cheek.

Have I understood you correctly this time around, Paul? :-)

Anonymous said...

You didn't sign your name to the post at 2:17. If others knew it was you, they would have taken it differently. There is no hostility toward you.

You touched a sore spot. What is discussed here is quite far away from average conversations, and I think many of us are sensitive to the fact that what we look at appears unusual to others, to say he least. Usually people stay within their little area of interest. Christians talk about Christian things. Jews about Jewish things. Occultists about occult things. Conservative or liberal politicians about their own interests. For someone to cross the street and combine interests seems odd to them.

I would guess that there have been people who took a look at this blog and ran away thinking that we are conspiracy nuts to the tenth degree. You just happened to put into words what we fear we will be called when we touch on our interest with others, and to use a very old fashioned phrase, they put their "dukes" up and got ready to fight. A natural thing after all of the talk about what to do in the lesbian attack on the church.

As I see it, the church did have guards, but the guards probably expected nothing to ever happen. People see their church as a safe, protected place where they can enjoy fellowship in harmony with others like themselves. The attack happened so fast they were probably in shock. Very few of us know how to act in the face of uncivilized behavior. Those in the pews probably saw the group as equivalent to someone who farts and belches in public and then laughs rather than as an attack on their moral beliefs. Their reaction was probably let them leave, air out the place and we'll think about it later after we hear what the minister says.

Anonymous said...

No problem anonymous, 3:19

That's the problem with cyberspace, we just really don't know each other very well.

People who know me know that I have a tendency to try to be funny when things are deadly serious.

I actually thought it very courageous albeit hysterically funny that topics as serious as being interviewed by the Mossad, and someone's home under demonic attack was intermixed with talk about car auctions and a reference to Santa Claus.

Now you know me a little better and hopefully others here will stop misinterpreting comments I've made that were truly well-intentioned , but have been taken the wrong way.

And I can identify with your feelings about your faith. My own church is heretical according to some here, thanks to my pastor's use of Reinhard Bonke tapes to inspire his flock to go out and evangelize. But then, so is Constance's 7th day Adventist Church, according to certain sites that are referenced often here.

I don't mind the warnings, though. I'd rather be safe than sorry, and now I am watching the goings-on in my church with a hawk's eye.

In the end, perhaps it wouldn't hurt if we all tried to lighten up a little, and even share some jokes once in a while.


Anonymous said...

To anonymous 5:36,

Yesterday my husband finally saw my blog- the Obama Nation. If you are not familiar with it, I have written some pretty heavy stuff there over the past 6 months.

He told me that the night before he was watching CSI and someone was accused of causing an assassination because another person had read their blog and acted on the information contained in the blog in an abnormal and bizarre way. Needless to say, he freaked out and made me shut down my blog.

He read me the riot act regarding privacy, though I am of the same opinion as Primegood, that through my IP address I am well-known to whoever is looking for individuals like me- people who were simply trying to get the truth out during the election process, since the media refused to report the truth.

Nevertheless I made some promises to him, and among them were to be more careful in the future. That is why I have not been linking back to my blog but have been signing my name as anonymous.

I am very sorry for any sore spots that I hit. That was not the intention at all.


Anonymous said...

My full name has been out there for years. It's Dorothy Margraf. Early on I just wanted to be anonymous on the blog because I felt the message was more important than the speaker, but Constance decided otherwise.

Now what's your full name so we can do searches.

Looking at your blog you appear quite intelligent but rather full of yourself which might explain why you boiled for so long before you exploded.

You gave a rather detailed history of yourself which sounds like more like that of a character in an action packed fiction novel than real life. Or it could be that it took you so long to catch on to what was happening because no one dared to talk back to you. You sounded so very frustrated when you couldn't dig up any dirt on me. Too bad.

Maybe I'm like the bad detective around here when others are the good detectives. I'm happy when I can cause others to be on guard when encountering new pieces of information which should be analyzed very carefully before accepting them. I'll bet everyone here could tell a story about being taken in by fakers who speak smoothly and tell us what we want to hear. It's a hard job but somebody has to do it.

Hey, we need another bad detective around here and you have the energy to do the job.


Anonymous said...

I got so carried away by what I was saying, I forgot to sign 5:36


Don said...


You quote the 'sermon on the mount'. So does Matthew Fox, an infamous "Christian" New Ager. Google him.

I react to what I perceive to be an subtle infiltration of new age thinking into the gospel.

I've been exposed to both sides. I've tried to straddle the middle.
It's a slippery saddle and getting worse.
If even the very elect may be deceived can you really suppose it to be so simple?
I don't.

I only know that dying to my 'old nature' does not make me Christ. It enables me to continue my necessary visit to the cross.

I've never claimed to know the will of God in all situations. I have simply said I would defend my loved ones.
To bombard me with 'proofs' of my sinfulness is to miss the point. I'm not claiming to be Christ. Or to be operating without sin.
I am saying when the decision must be made as to who will walk out of a room, I will side with my wife over an attacker.
I can't imagine this is so hard to understand.
Who here can claim to be without sin? Certainly not me. Are there degrees and categories of sin then?
Is the sin of retaliation and self-defense despicable and the sin of covetousness allowed?

Yes I am hostile, and not gladly. My hostility is sin. I don't need to be told that. Who among you has such clean hands you can reach for a stone? I understood it was necessary to keep the whole of the law. Am I wrong?

I initially was commenting that the criminals who perpetrated the violence (and it WAS violence) on that church MUST be held accountable or they will do it again. That I went way overboard is beside the point or perhaps is the point.
The image of a smiling meek Christian standing hands folded while taunted, and/or beaten is something I can't fathom.
To picture that same Christian standing the same way while his wife or daughter is violated is insane (IMHO).

There seems to be a willingness to transfer hostility from the reasonable object of such, (the criminals) to me. This is irrational.

Since it is impossible to reason with unreason(ableness), I must therefore cease to try.

You do IT (the gospel) your way. I'll do it mine.

If it turns out my sin is greater than His grace than none of it matters anyways.

He knew me when. He knows me now.
He'll know me then.

I trust God to protect me. Whether to give me wisdom in words, courage in heart or one more round.


Anonymous said...

For you to compare me with Matthew Fox is foolish, even for you.

Yes, indeed, so the gospel the way that suits you.


Don said...


Yes my life reads like a work of fiction, and needs no embellishment. And You ain't even heard the half of it.

At times I marvel at being alive. God's grace amazes me.

I probably do sit on too much energy and may well join the 'bad cop' team .
I didn't even try to 'dig up dirt' on you. I simply find the idea of repeated anonymous posting silly. I learned long ago there is nothing hidden from those who have the power. I don't try to hide myself. Google knows who I am. Anybody with authority can access the logs. A little seraching will probably uncover the webalyzer logs for this blog.
I'm not interested in hurting anyone. I'm not trying to destroy anyone.
I don't want to see us or any group of sincere seekers after truth destroyed from the inside by allowing our defenses to be penetrated through our own good intentions.

Dorothy, I take your latest post as an olive branch.
If I am wrong I'm sure you will set me straight.
If it is such, I accept it and I accept the invitation to stand on guard against deceivers.

There has been tremendous energy expended in this topic. It has been draining AND stimulating.
I know I have exercised a part of my brain and my heart I barely realized existed.

I have things to dwell on and mull over that may well prove to be life changing.

I thank everyone who has engaged my views. Even if we disagree, at least we know we are not some bland homogenous mass.
We are individuals and therefore the accusations of the criminals don't stick.

I apologize to any who felt my comments attacked their person. I only meant to attack ideas, not you.

If this is not Christ at work then what is?
(must be some prayin' goin' on)

Be well


Don said...


My name is Don Soucy

Good luck on finding anything of interest. and are my two main sites. There are many others with the same name. They're not me.

I chose the nom de plume Primegood because my grandfather had the middle name Prime. And to me at least he was a good man.


Don said...


I just had a look at some of the other me's and I wish I was them.


Don said...


As far as 'being full of myself' I think I made it pretty clear in my introductory post to my blog what I expected from myself, and what others could expect as well.

No surprises.


Anonymous said...

I have no intention of doing a search on who you are. It was a throw away line based on your attempting to find information on me.

Why do I think you are a bit full of yourself? Me thinks the gentleman do protest too much. Here's one of the paragraphs from your first post.

"I shall simply attempt to create a stream of consciousness, into which I may pour the collected ramblings which puddle in my brain and from which any who care (or dare) may drink if they but stoop low enough to reach."

Whatever. You know the reason you are here, so contribute.


Don said...

and I bit.

Oh well


Don said...

That was a catchy bit of false humility wasn't it.

I think I was trying to show just how human I really am.

Mea Culpa Dorothy.


Anonymous said...


I know of many of protestant believers who would propably consult a third party exorcist. I tend to tackle most things head on though myself, my faith is no different. If my Lord tells me I am capable, then I am until proven other wise.(lol) I have never been the type to play it safe and want every moment available to be able to exercise my faith. I honestly would propably get bored other wise.

Life is a blessing to me, and the Lord has been with me through some very horrible times. So if I am at all capable of doing even one thing that shows Him I would follow no matter what obstacle is in my path, then I must. I am saddened that many more do not approach their faith this way. However, it took some very bad things happening to me, and His grace through those times, for me to be this way.

If I happen to fall short of taking care of this issue I am in the midst of dealing with. I may consult a third party who is experienced, but knowing me I will keep pushing and trying until I realize my goal and figure out where I was falling short. This of course is just my view. As I walk with Him I know that even if I stumble, I cannot fail because He has already provided my victory.


Anonymous said...

Very catchy line. You score ten points for that one. Much better than that pretend Shakespeare. With that kind of writing I'll cut anyone all kinds of slack.


Don said...


It's strange how things change.

24 hours agao I was completely convinced of my 'rightness'.
Now since our recent exchange, I am completelt convinced of how totally unsuited for this I am.

I have just sacrificed a very precious possession due to my pride and contempt for those who took refuge behind their apparance of anonymity.
By revealing my true and whole identity I fear I have laid my life open to whatever attack anyone may decide to laucnh at me.
And while I may be 'man enough' to take what I deserve, my wife should not have to suffer with my stupidity.

Mea culpa goes far beyond just being full of myself. It covers being willfully blind and foolish.

I have just dismantled my blog.
I wish I could undo the harm I have done on this one but it is completly out of my hands.
Your 'throw away' line was the bait I swallowed and now I am undone.

I can only pray God is the mighty protector I may now need.

I repent in shame before His Majesty.

I am sorry

the fool formerly known as

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