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CONSTANCE
45 comments:
Off-topic- The Secret is being advertised on Rush now. I doubt that Rush would advocate it, but I suppose their money is as good as anyone's for his capitalist bend (not that I am criticizing a capitalist bend). Also, Rush had an ideal solution for how to settle the Mideast problems, and especially the grief the world wants to give to Israel. Per Rush, all Israel has to do is change its name to Iran, and then they can pretty well do whatever they want, and if fact will often be given a favorable light in the media.
The Church always gets attacked during Lent. It is to be expected from the enemy.
What I find disturbing about the attacks on the Pope is that Hans Kung is in the mix.
While I can certainly respect the beliefs of good sincere non-Catholic Christians or even non-Christians who do not acknowledge the authority of the Pope, I have NO respect for so-called "Catholics" - especially "Catholic priests" of Hans Kung's ilk - who not only know better, but also have made a career out of viciously and obsessively undermining the authority of the Pope.
Kung has been doing this at least since the early 1970's when -as a Roman Catholic priest - he wrote his infamous book INFALLIBLE? AN INQUIRY in which he proceeded to undermine the papacy.
It was this book that led to Kung's losing his "missio canonica" - that is, his right to officially teach as a Roman Catholic theologian.
If anyone has ever read Kung's book, DOES GOD EXIST?, he/she would see how, in addition to undermining the teaching authority of the Catholic Church, Kung attempts to use the very Bible itself to place the divinity of Christ in doubt. In this sense, he is just as dangerous to Protestants as he is to Catholics and Orthodox and, as I recall, this very point was once made by the late Pope John Paul II.
Among the essential truths preserved and handed on intact by the successors of Peter is the fact of Christ's divinity.
As many people here already know, Kung is involved with United Religions Initiative which has a global agenda and smacks of New Age themes. Ergo, his attempt to "demote" Christ should not surprise us any more than his attempt to undermine and ultimately destroy the papacy.
Of course Kung's latest exploitation of the pedophilia scandal is but a continuation of his crusade for the abolition of clerical celibacy...notwithstanding the fact that pedophiles can just as well be married as celibate.....and the fact that no one holds a gun to any man's head in order to force him to become a priest.
cont.....
cont....
The following article mentions Kung.
____________________________
ANTI-POPES AND DANGERS OF A PARALLEL MAGISTERIUM
3/22/2010
Van Thuân Observatory Affirms Support for Benedict XVI
By Monsignor Giampaolo Crepaldi
ROME, MARCH 22, 2010 (Zenit.org).- The attempt of the press to implicate Benedict XVI in the question of pedophilia is only the most recent sign of the aversion that many have for the Pope.
It is necessary to ask oneself how this Pontiff, despite his evangelical meekness and honesty, the clarity of his words joined to the depth of his thought and of his teachings, arouses in some places sentiments of disgust and forms of anti-clericalism that it was believed had been surmounted. And this, it must be said, causes even greater astonishment and also distress when those who do not follow the Pope and criticize his alleged errors are men of the Church, whether theologians, priests or laymen.
The unheard of and clearly forced accusations of theologian Hans Kung against the person of Joseph Ratzinger, theologian, bishop, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and now Pontiff for having caused, according to him, the pedophilia of some ecclesiastics through his theology and magisterium on celibacy profoundly distress us. It never happened before that the Church was attacked in this way.
To the persecutions against many Christians, crucified in the literal sense in many parts of the world, to the many attempts to uproot Christianity in previously Christian societies with a devastating violence on the legislative and educational plane, and to customs that cannot be explained by good common sense, has been added for some time a fury against this Pope, whose providential greatness is before everyone's eyes.
cont....
cont...
These attacks are echoed sadly by those who do not listen to the Pope, also among ecclesiastics, professors of theology in seminaries, priests and laymen. Those who do not accuse the Pontiff openly, but are deaf to his teachings, who do not read the documents of his magisterium, who write and say exactly the contrary of what he says, give life to pastoral and cultural initiatives, for example in the area of bioethics or in that of the ecumenical dialogue, in open diverge with all that he teaches. The phenomenon is very grave as it is very widespread.
Benedict XVI has given teachings on the Second Vatican Council that many Catholics reject openly, promoting forms of counter-formation and of systematic parallel teaching, led by many "anti-popes"; he has given teachings on "non-negotiable values" which very many Catholics minimize or reinterpret, and this also happens on the part of theologians and famous commentators guests of the Catholic press in addition to secular press; he has given teachings on the primacy of the apostolic faith in the wise reading of events and very many continue talking of the primacy of the situation, or of the practice, or of the data of human sciences; he has given teachings on conscience and on the dictatorship of relativism but very many put democracy or the Constitution before the Gospel. For many, "Dominus Iesus," the Note of 2002 on Catholics in politics, the 2006 Regensburg address, "Caritas in Veritate," is as if they had never been written.
The situation is serious, because the gap between the faithful who listen to the Pope and those who do not is spreading everywhere, even in diocesan seminaries and Institutes of Religious Sciences, and animates two pastoral programs that are very different in themselves, so that they almost no longer understand one another, as if they were the expression of two different Churches, causing insecurity and error in many faithful.
In these very difficult times, our Observatory feels the duty to express our filial closeness to Benedict XVI. We pray for him and remain faithful in following him.
[Translation by ZENIT]
* * *
Archbishop Giampaolo Crepaldi of the Diocese of Trieste is the president of the Cardinal Van Thuân International Observatory for the Social Doctrine of the Church.
http://www.zenit.org/article-28723?l=english
In my humble opinion, it is not simply the church that is under attack at this point in time, but the Body as a whole. I know this may seem like semantics to some, but there is a observable difference.
NPR Ditches 'Pro-life' Label in Favor of Left-leaning 'Abortion Rights Opponent'
Words matter. They speak volumes about issues. So when individuals or groups try to change the words associated with a heated political issue, take note and take care.
The folks at National Public Radio understand the power of words. Managing Editor David Sweeney announced yesterday that the station would no longer refer to people in the abortion debate as "pro-choice" and "pro-life." Instead, the station will say "abortion rights advocates" and "abortion rights opponents," according to a memo circulated to NPR staff.
In making this change, NPR is shifting the terms of the debate to make it more friendly to the pro-choice position.
more at link
http://tinyurl.com/yh35s5w
JD said:
Words matter. They speak volumes about issues. So when individuals or groups try to change the words associated with a heated political issue, take note and take care.
This is so true, and really important to understand and look for when doing research.
JD,
There are still so many people in the dark as to what's happening. Since it was the Catholic Church that was the first to formulate all the official Christian doctrines and compile the Bible, once it's proved that they are fraud the whole of Christianity can be proven to be false too. You can't kill a tree unless you cut its roots.
Savvy
JD,
Re: In my humble opinion, it is not simply the church that is under attack at this point in time, but the Body as a whole.
Well said, JD, and I agree. This is why none of us should gloat when Christian communions other than our own are under attack.
As my mother used to say....."Be careful when you spit in the air lest it land on your own nose.."
Let us ALL keep in mind that one of the main goals of the New World Order is to 'divide and conquer' and to ultimately destroy all of the world's traditional religions (Christian, Jewish, Muslim).
Then, a new One World Religion will suddenly come forward (like a 'phoenix rising from the ashes') . . . under the pretext of 'uniting' all of the people of the world.
Can the Anti-Christ be far behind?
Anon at 5:30
Our Trial is being conducted both from within and without. We have Theologians, Bishops, the gay lobby responsible for the abuse and cover-up and know they've been caught and need to get back at the Pope for being disciplined over the years. This is their revenge.
Savvy
EXCELLENT REBUTTAL OF HITCHENS!!!:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0329.htm
HOME » CATHOLIC ISSUES » THE WORLD, AND SOME IN THE CHURCH, HATE THE POPE
The World, and some in the Church, Hate the Pope
March 25, 2010 at 7:58 pm · Filed under Catholic Issues, Moral/Sexual Issues, Pope Benedict
If they ever suspect a chink in the armor the enemy will smell blood and rush in with hatred in their eyes. Thus it is with the secular media and the Catholic Church, especially regarding the Pope.
New York Times highlights Vatican inaction on abusive Milwaukee priest
In a front-page headline story, the New York Times has called attention to a sex-abuse case in which the Vatican failed to act promptly on a request to defrock a Wisconsin priest who was accused of molesting up to 200 boys at a school for the deaf.
A documented rebuttal to Christopher Hitchens attack on Pope Benedict
This week the militant atheist Christopher Hitchens published a vitriolic attack on Pope Benedict XVI and the Catholic faith, concentrating on the sex-abuse scandal and charging that the Pope’s “whole career has the stench of evil.” In a detailed, carefully documented rebuttal, Sean Murphy points to multiple errors of fact in Hitchens’ piece, and concludes: “Were it not for its appearance in the National Post, it would be difficult to believe that a reputable newspaper would publish such absurdity.”
Vatican Spokesman Refutes Murphy Case Accusations
By Genevieve Pollock, VATICAN CITY, MARCH 25, 2010 (Zenit.org).- There were no cover-ups, the Vatican is confirming in response to media accusations that tried to implicate Benedict XVI in the case of a priest accused of abusing deaf children. Today, several media sources followed the New York Times in reporting a story about Father Lawrence Murphy, a priest from the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, who was accused of molesting up to 200 children. The Holy See published the statement that Father Federico Lombardi, director of the Vatican press office, gave to the Times, in which he deplored this “tragic case” that “involved particularly vulnerable victims who suffered terribly.” For Lombardi’s whole statement, click here
Sean Murphy tracked down all the references and researched all the accusations. Here’s the result, with 80 references.
And an abbreviated version here: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0325.htm
Murphy concludes: “It would be unfair to conclude that Mr. Hitchens deliberately distorted and withheld all of this information. One hesitates to attribute his failings to malicious anti-catholic bigotry. Perhaps he was just remarkably careless in his reading and incompetent in his research.”
Enemies who Call Themselves Catholics: Van Thuân Observatory Affirms Support for Benedict XVI, By Monsignor Giampaolo Crepaldi
ROME, MARCH 22, 2010 (Zenit.org).- The attempt of the press to implicate Benedict XVI in the question of pedophilia is only the most recent sign of the aversion that many have for the Pope.
It is necessary to ask oneself how this Pontiff, despite his evangelical meekness and honesty, the clarity of his words joined to the depth of his thought and of his teachings, arouses in some places sentiments of disgust and forms of anti-clericalism that it was believed had been surmounted. And this, it must be said, causes even greater astonishment and also distress when those who do not follow the Pope and criticize his alleged errors are men of the Church, whether theologians, priests or laymen.
The unheard of and clearly forced accusations of theologian Hans Kung against the person of Joseph Ratzinger, theologian, bishop, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and now Pontiff for having caused, according to him, the pedophilia of some ecclesiastics through his theology and magisterium on celibacy profoundly distress us. It never happened before that the Church was attacked in this way. For the rest of the article, click here.
I have always thought that Protestants
do not give enough credit to the Catholic Church for having gathered and passed on the Bible. Unfortunately, early theologians misinterpreted the Bible, such as in Amillenialism. Amillenialism is a denial of the thousand year reign of Christ on earth, following the great tribulation and Christ's triumphant return to reign as king of kings. I heard that this theory was advanced by theologians because Roman emperors did not want to envision a higher king than they showing up. But for whatever reason it was advanced, it is one of the reasons why prophecy is rarely taught by mainline denominations. Due to the diligent reading of the Bible by some modern expositors, prophecy has become so popular that people have left mainline denominations to go to various newer church congregations, which often call themselves Independent, even though they are often loosely or firmly tied together in organization and spirit. Such would be Calvary Chapel, which grew out of the Jesus Movement in the 60's, with emphasis on close reading of every part of the Bible, and seeing how the Bible works as a whole, in context.
Many home study groups also are devoted to prophecy and, again, composed of members whose prophecy study needs were ignored by mainline denominations, both Protestant and Catholic.
I never knew that prophecy was an important part of the Bible until I was well into middle age. I had been taught the Holy Book was primary a mystical and/or social gospel. That it "saw the end from the beginning" I thought, along with my liberal teachers, and some fairly conservative, that prophecy was a part of the Bible we need not study in any detail, or could even ignore.
So I agree to give credit to the Roman Catholic Church for what it has done, and the heritage the Protestants got from it. But neither of them have addressed this important part of the Bible and of tradition: prophecy.
And now prophecy is coming to pass, so the Christian church will be ever more separated into a "separate magesterium", not one run by separated Catholics unless they change in ways I have not yet seem myself.
Mariel
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/54547.html
posted at Lew Rockwell blog. go figure
I think a lot of the protestants have figured out that this blog is very pro-catholic and have left.
This is sad, the catholic church is so full of many unbiliblical teachings, and it's sad that they continue to go unchallenged on this blog.
Catholics trying to expose the New Age Movement, are like Mormons trying to point out the fallacies of Jehova's Witnesses.
TO ANONYMOUS (@ 7:49 & 8:16 A.M.):
You betray your own ignorance with your comments. I challenge you to prove what you claim.
Lisa
I think a lot of the protestants have figured out that this blog is very pro-catholic and have left.
This is sad, the catholic church is so full of many unbiliblical teachings, and it's sad that they continue to go unchallenged on this blog.
Interesting use of the Hegelian dialectic. Constance does not condemn Catholicism to the satisfaction of people like Dave Hunt and a few other posters here, whose names I won't mention (both past and current contributors, male and female) so therefore she is "pro-Catholic."
Interestingly, Cumbey has always allowed the vicious anti-Catholic rants of some people here to stand as a matter of free speech. Yet she is still too "pro-Catholic" for precious little you?
Yet merely "allowing" people like Susanna and Savvy to voice the Catholic viewpoint is somehow offensive to people like "Anonymous" above.
It sounds like you would like to control Constance's thoughts, and be the sole decider of whether she is "Christian" enough for you. Well, I have news for you -- you aren't God's appointed arbitrer of who is, and who is not, sufficiently "Christian."
Like I said -- the Hegelian dialectic in action here, in order to push an anti-Catholic agenda. Divide and conquer indeed.
P.S. Catholics are "Bible believers" too.
P.S. Catholics are "Bible believers" too.
It's odd that everyone likes one another until this topic comes up.
The main dispute is grace vs. works and it's one of the many fundamental problems between Catholics and Protestants.
There are many other doctrinal issues involved and they sparked the reformation which sparked outright war.
I vehemently disagree with Catholic doctrine and I do recognize that the Catholic church promotes and preaches extra biblical 'church tradition' alongside (and above) scripture.
Despite my beliefs, I wonder how everyone gets along so well until this Catholic vs. Protestant thing comes along. There is a lot of doctrine that gets tossed about here but when this particular thing comes up, it's time for battle. It doesn't even happen when the Jewish people that post here discuss their doctrine. No offense to anyone but there are those of us who believe Jesus was the Christ and those of us who don't.
Ever wonder what the problem is with Catholics and Protestants? I do. It's fundamental, no doubt.
To Anonymous @ 7:49 & 8:16 AM:
Please show evidence that this blog is 'pro-Catholic'!!!
Constance has only asked that we all be RESPECTFUL and civil to one another.
Actually, this blog is a 'pro-wake up call' to ALL who read/post here that the New World Order is an equal opportunity offender.
The NWO's goal is to divide and conquer (pit one group against the other) and ultimately destroy ALL traditonal religions (and yes, Protestant Evangelicals, that does include you) . . . in order to establish their One World Religion.
Of, course, we all know the truth: that God is still very much in charge and will win out in the end!!!
Meanwhile, please let's not make the mistake of falling into their NWO trap; because if they're reading this blog now, they've got to be gloating over any infighting.
To Steve @ 12:32 PM:
Your lack of tolerance and respect for any view point but your own is the real reason why so many have left this blog.
Ratzinger denies the Real Presence...
“Eucharistic devotion such as is noted in the silent visit by the devout in church must not be thought of as a conversation with God. This would assume that God was present there locally and in a confined way. To justify such an assertion shows a lack of understanding of the Christological mysteries of the very concept of God. This is repugnant to the serious thinking of the man who knows about the omnipresence of God. To go to church on the ground that one can visit God who is present there is a senseless act which modern man rightfully rejects.”
Source: Die Sacramentale Begrundung Christliche Existenz by Joseph Ratzinger
Ratzinger is an Evolutionist, which by definition makes one an athiest. To quote Ratzinger...
...for science has long since disposed of the concepts (Genesis: l-49) that we have just now heard ...we hear of the Big Bang, which happened billions of years ago.
...it was rather in complex ways and over vast periods of time that earth and the universe were constructed. (p.12)
We cannot say: creation or evolution. The proper way of putting it is: creation and evolution. (p.65)
...the progress of thought in the last two decades helps us to grasp anew the inner unity of creation and evolution and of faith and reason. (p.66)
Source: In the Beginning is an annotated version of a 4-homily series delivered by Joseph Ratzinger in Munich (1981). Subtitled A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall, the book was published in Germany in 1985 and is now available in English translation.
Ratzinger favors Ecumenism...
The train that took the false religious leaders from the Vatican to Assisi was described by Ratzinger as “a symbol of our pilgrimage in history… Are we not all, perhaps, passengers on the same train?... Is not the fact that the train chose as its destiny peace and justice, and the reconciliation of peoples and religions, a great inspiration and, at the same time, a splendid sign of hope?”
Source: Zenit News Report, Feb. 21, 2002.
Ratzinger denies the Resurrection of the Body...
“Paul [St. Paul] teaches not the resurrection of physical bodies but of persons…”
Source: Joseph Ratzinger, Introduction to Christianity, (republished in 1990 with Ratzinger’s approval), p. 277
Thus, Ratzinger is not Catholic and thus cannot be the pope.
Mariel,
There are Catholic circles that address prophecy and then there are those that do not. The Cathecism of the Catholic Church does have a section on the Last Things. I am currently tuning into Mark Mallet's coverage for what' s going on in the church and in our times.
http://www.markmallett.com/embracinghopetv/
Savvy
Let's not give so much credit to the Catholic Church for anything to do with the Bible. Remember, God can use you or someone else. God would have just used other people to accomplish His will.
The infighting is ridiculous and immature. Focus on Christ. Almost all of us here either believe we are currently in the end times or we are very close.....let's argue (discuss) about things that really matter.
Let's not give so much credit to the Catholic Church for anything to do with the Bible. Remember, God can use you or someone else. God would have just used other people to accomplish His will.
This is one of the most ridiculous and immature things I have ever read at this blog.
Earthquakes are happening so frequently now, difficult for news to stay up. Manila had a 6.2 quake two days ago -- just now received my google alert on same.
Constance
Speaking of Dave Hunt, somebody should ask him to explain his pro-Gnostic support of the Albigensians as 'bible believing Christians' they were not! and William Law.
William Law was Jacob Boehme's translator and supporter. Jacob Boehme was Madame Blavatsky's inspiration for "Theosophy."
Interestingly, the New Age Catholics (Paulist Press) seem to love Dave Hunt. His book is recommended in their Classics of Western Theology series as part of the series book on William Law.
Norman Grubb wrote the forward for Dave Hunt/William Law Book POWER OF THE SPIRIT. Dave Hunt once told me he had never met Norman Grubb. NOT TRUE. Norman Grubb published Dave's first two books: CONFESSIONS OF A HERETIC and THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT.
Again, never forget the strategy of pitting target groups off against each other! I once counted Dave Hunt as an ally -- not so since October 1987 when all of this started coming out in the wash. I kept long silence for the sake of preventing confusion, but now, maybe it is time to speak up.
Constance
The editorial board of Classics of Western Theology, Paulist Press includes Bro. David Steindl-Rast (A Benedict monk, very NEW AGE, and a close friend of David Spangler) -- and Dave accused Catholics coming against the New Age Movement and against Matthew Fox of starting a new "inquisition."
Constance
I have stated this numerous times and I really can't believe I am having to do so again!!!! The ONLY TIME these divisive issues come up is when something important is transpiring in the world! They ALWAYS are started by a anonymous poster(not saying anything against posting anonymously just a observation)and before anyone gets to the crux of the initial poster, the regulars are debating issues that detract from the work done here.
For the record, this DOES happen to the jewish posters as well, the difference is there are only a couple of them and it does not happen quite as frequently. I am neither jewish, nor catholic, and despite my difference of faith, two of the people I am closest with here are of each faith. This is not because difference of beliefs are ignored, but that they are handled with a measure of respect usually not employed here. For example, Susanna and I have had respectful conversations about aparitions of Mary, through which she has told me that even if a aparition is confirmed by the Catholic Church, members are not required to accept it. This is in polar opposition to most accusations leveled against members by some posters stating all catholics worship aparitions. Susanna knows my views, I know hers, we disagree on some things, but respectfully so. I could lay out similar examples as they pertain to Dorothy, but I believe I have made my point.
STEVE SAID:
"I vehemently disagree with Catholic doctrine and I do recognize that the Catholic church promotes and preaches extra biblical 'church tradition' alongside (and above) scripture."
I wonder if you have ever read the didache, or if you have studied the apostolic fathers (Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp) of the church? Or, in your sophisticated opinion, are they irrelevant?
Lisa
ALSO TO STEVE:
Don't you realize that, when determining the biblical canon, one of the things the Bishops of the Catholic Church relied upon was TRADITION. Obviously, the Church existed well before the bible. Think about it!
Scripture, by which we mean the Old and New Testaments, was inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16). The Holy Spirit guided the biblical authors to write what he wanted them to write. Since God is the principal author of the Bible, and since God is truth and cannot teach anything untrue, the Bible is free from all error in everything it asserts to be true. The Church is the custodian of the Bible and must faithfully and accurately proclaim its message, a task which God has empowered it to do.
Keep in mind that the Church came before the New Testament, not the New Testament before the Church. Divinely inspired members of the Church wrote the books of the New Testament, just as inspired writers had written the Old Testament, and the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit to guard and interpret the entire Bible, both Old and New Testaments. Such an official interpreter is absolutely necessary. (We all know what the Constitution says, but we still need a Supreme Court to interpret what it means.)
Some Christians claim, "The Bible is all I need," but this notion is not taught in the Bible itself. In fact, the Bible teaches the contrary (2 Pet. 1:20-21, 3:15-16). The "Bible alone" theory was not believed by anyone in the early Church. It is new, having arisen only since the Protestant Reformation. The theory is a "tradition of men" that nullifies the Word of God, distorts the true role of the Bible, and undermines the authority of the Church Jesus established (Mark 7:1-8).
Although popular with many "Bible Christian" churches, the "Bible alone" theory simply does not work. Historical experience disproves it. Each year we see further splintering among "Bible believing" religions. Today there are thousands of competing denominations, each insisting its interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. The resulting divisions have caused untold confusion among millions of sincere but misled Christians.
Just open up the Yellow Pages of your telephone book and see how many different denominations are listed, each claiming to go by the "Bible alone," but no two of them agree on exactly what the Bible means. One thing we know for sure: The Holy Spirit cannot be the author of this confusion. God cannot lead people to contradictory beliefs because his truth is one. The conclusion? The "Bible alone" theory must be false.
THERE IS NO NEED FOR SUCH DIVISION BETWEEN CHRISTIANS. IT WILL ONLY CONTINUE TO "HASTEN OUR DEMISE". WE ALL SHOULD BE HUMBLY SEEKING THE TRUTH, NOT ALLOWING OURSELVES TO BE BLINDED BY OUR PRIDE.
Lisa
JD,
Thank you for your sensitive and sensible post that reminds us all who the real enemy is. (Hint: It's NOT Jews or the Catholic Church!).
Mary Jean
To anonymous 3:46, you must remember that each of us are in different phases of our walks with Christ. You have done nothing but continued to create division. You may think my statement was immature or simple, but the simple things are what are commonly overlooked.
In my opinion, for what it's worth, I've noticed much of the confusion really comes from observations of the world upon Christendom. They don't seem to recognize that there are Christians in name only as well as true Christians which are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. IF we are to define a Christian as one who has the Spirit, and is led by the Spirit, and has the law of God written on their hearts we have no reason to condemn our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
It was clear to me, that Paul, in the book of Romans, left room for the possiblities that there might be disagreements and resulting denominations. To the brothers that need more control to hold them in place, more strict dogma may be the key, for those who are more confident in their faith, perhaps they need less of mens rules, as they are governed by the Spirit.
It was up to none of us to judge our brothers in this way nor place stumbling blocks in front of them. What we do need to do, is make sure that they have been given a true gospel. If they have not the Spirit, then they do not belong to Christ. Simple as that.
It would be a shame to look back through history and judge the hearts of great men and women of God to say that God didn't use them for His purposes whether protestant or catholic. The issue of grace vs works was also solved by Paul in Romans... but the greater issue was Faith!
Leana
Interesting, considering the whole controversy with Squeakbox...
http://www.cidob.org/en/noticias/cidob/javier_solana_presidente_de_honor_de_cidob
http://tinyurl.com/yg62v9q
I found this over at FP, but reposted it here in case anyone missed it. Just didn't want to take credit for the find.
Leana
Mary Jean,
I simply know the difference between disagreement and disrespect. The same people these statements attempted to tear down, have fought hard and stood against the real enemy. I pray that others here would learn to not play the New Age game of divide, so they can conquer. This is how they got into the church, it is how they have rendered our voices asunder in our own nation, and it is how they have advanced their agenda into a global government.
The Catholics here know what the Protestants difference of beliefs are, as the Jewish contributors know that the majority here believe Jesus is Messiah. Why must some insist on alienating allies? As you are certainly not making any head way for your beliefs with these people by beating them over the head with what is already obvious.
Well--My internet has been spotty for three days. Just catching up on all posts.
JD, thank you. You said what I thought.
Leana! Good to see you again. I suspect you are mostly like me in that you read and research what you can but life takes over the rest.
On earthquakes, we have had several small ones here in OK. Always, a proceeding a larger one somewhere in the world. Very odd, maybe that is normal though.
Things are happening at a much faster pace than I could have imagined.
Thanks Dawn, nice to see you again. I completely underestimated how busy I would be, but I do check in, I just don't have much to say anymore.
To JD 5:25 p.m.
AMEN, AMEN, preach on brother!
Constance
Dear Leana:
THANKS for the CIDOB information on the appointment of Javier Solana as its "honorary President." I had not been aware of it. It was CIDOB, always close to Javier Solana, which reported that Javier Solana was the NIETO (grandson) of Salvador de Madariaga and later in trying to cover the tracks we had exposed then attempted a historical rewriting to say he was a GREAT UNCLE because their "grandfathers" had been COUSINS." If the only relationship had been that their GRANDFATHERS were COUSINS, the relationship necessarily would have been VERY DISTANT COUSINS indeed!
Sincerely ,
CONSTANCE
Savvy, I know that there are some Catholics who are interested in prophecy about the last days, in spite of the church's stand against Millenialism, which is shared by some of the Protestant churches which came out of the Catholic church, such as Lutheran, Episcopalian.
I sang in a Catholic choir in California, in which some of the singers were attending a Bible study
at Calvary Chapel. I joined them, and vastly enlarged my Bible understanding. I still have GREAT
sympathy for the good parish I was in at that time which, unfortunately,is not the "gold standard" of today.
I was shocked to read of some of the "new" things endorsed by Pope Benedict. Good grief.
It is amazing how clever people, like my choir in California, manage to find the best in both worlds, in both their Catholic home and their Protestant Bible studies. This is the beauty of America, where people CAN do such things without being burned at the stake.
I am really discouraged by the anti-prophecy stand of my most recent church attended, the Episcopal. They think it is simply wrong to even think about it. It is dispiriting. I go to this parish in spite of this, because they are lovely charitable people and do affirm the fundamentals of the faith. It's better than some of the mega-churches who have distorted the faith. Finding a church which preaches the fundamentals is now a "job". At least where I have lived.
Mariel
Dear Mariel and Savvy
The Catholic Church does in fact acknowledge the validity of prophecy. When we talk about prophecy in terms of the differences between the Catholic and Protestant teachings on prophecy, we are talking about differences in interpretation.
For example, when it comes to the Millenium, the Catholic Church interprets the "1000 years" mentioned in the Book of Revelation as a symbolic number that refers to the entire Christian era, whereas Protestants interpret the "1000 years" to mean a literal 1000-year reign of Christ on earth.
While it is true that a very few of the Church Fathers appear to have interpreted the "1000 years" literally, it was never the official teaching of the Catholic Church. Moreover, one must not forget that St. John was following the Jewish tradition in which numbers were used symbolically.
In his article entitled WHAT CATHOLICS BELIEVE ABOUT THE END OF THE WORLD, Kenneth E. Untener writes:
What is the significance of the millennium and “The 1000-Year Reign of Christ”?
A passage in Revelation reads: “Then I saw an angel come down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the abyss and a heavy chain. He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent, which is the Devil or Satan, and tied it up for a thousand years...” (Rv 20:1-2).
The thousand years simply means a long time, just as we might say, “You won't guess this in a thousand years.” We are now in the long period between Christ‘s victory (symbolically expressed by tying up Satan) and his coming in glory. It could last millions of years. There are people (“millenarians”) who take this passage literally and search for signs of some thousand-year period on earth. When you start thinking in terms of a millennium, the approach of the year 2000 can get exciting. The same thing happened as the year 1000 approached. It’s the old problem of taking symbolic language literally.
http://www.americancatholic.org/
Newsletters/CU/ac0993.asp
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My purpose in commenting here is not to argue the merits of either the Catholic or Protestant interpretation of prophecies.
My purpose here is to point out that contrary to the view of some non-Catholic Christians, lots of practicing Catholics do pay attention to prophecy. We simply do not emphasize it as our first priority. Our Pauline priority is to practice our Christian faith and live good Christian lives at every moment in order to be prepared for the "great day of the Lord" whenever it comes.
But just for the record, there is a fascinating Catholic prophecy of Pope Leo XIII I would like to share which resembles the challenge made by the devil to God concerning Jonah:
THE VISION OF POPE LEO XIII
Exactly 33 years to the day prior to the miracle of the sun, (at Fatima) on October 13, 1884, Pope Leo XIII had a vision. Here follows an account of that vision:
According to the most widely accepted version of what happened, On October 13, 1884, after Pope Leo XIII had finished celebrating Mass in the Vatican Chapel, attended by a few Cardinals and members of the Vatican staff, he suddenly stopped at the foot of the altar. He stood there for about 10 minutes, as if in a trance, his face ashen white. Then, going immediately from the Chapel to his office, he composed the prayer to St. Michael, with instructions it be said after all Low Masses everywhere. When asked what had happened, he explained that, as he was about to leave the foot of the altar, he suddenly heard voices - two voices, one kind and gentle, the other guttural and harsh. They seemed to come from near the tabernacle. As he listened, he heard the following conversation:
The guttural voice, the voice of Satan in his pride, boasting to Our Lord: "I can destroy your Church"
The gentle voice of Our Lord: "You can? Then go ahead and do so."
Satan: "To do so, I need more time and more power."
Our Lord: "How much time? How much power?
Satan: "75 to 100 years, and a greater power over those who will give themselves over to my service."
Our Lord: "You have the time, you will have the power. Do with them what you will."
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The 100 years have passed. Christ's promise has been kept. The Church is still standing.
I could give many, many more fascinating examples of Catholic Prophecy, but I think I have made my point.
P.S.
Correction Re:
But just for the record, there is a fascinating Catholic prophecy of Pope Leo XIII I would like to share which resembles the challenge made by the devil to God concerning Jonah:
I was in a hurry. I meant to say Job, not Jonah.
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