Now, Creme does not place the two greatest murderous dictators of the twentieth century anywhere near the perimeters of eternal punishment for their murderous misdeeds. Hitler, per Creme, is "in Purgatory." In Catholic theological terms for those accepting a doctrine of purgatory, it is a places where many Catholics believe people not quite ready for heaven go to purge their sins. Benjamin Creme reassures all that Hitler is there and hence in hope, even assurance, of an eventual place in heaven.
Stalin, per Creme, wasn't all that bad either. The following quote is taken from this link to Creme's free downloadable book The World Teacher for all Humanity:
"A. Yes, they are one and the same. Hitler is no longer in incarnation;he is in what Christians would call purgatory. How long he will be there I have no idea, but a long time. There is a direct correlation with the evil effect that a person has through working with the forces of involution. The greater the impact of that in the world, the greater will be the karma of that person."There are some people who are not essentially evil, like Stalin. Stalin, who was a second-degree initiate, was not evil. He was sort of ‘grey’, not ‘black’. He was not essentially working with the same kind of energy. He was working for an ideal, for what he thought was for the benefit of Russia." (page 77)
As I am fighting "fire with fire" on the free downloadable book front, you may get a more complete copy of my books by going to this link and downloading the largest files for THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW and A PLANNED DECEPTION, this version with the appendices and index. I may be soon adding to HIDDEN DANGERS on line file to make sure the appendices are there as well -- I'm not presently sure they are on the typed manuscript which I reduced to pdf form and downloaded after being aware that Share International had made Benjamin Creme's incredibly evil books available on line for free.
Stay tuned!
Constance
406 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 406 Newer› Newest»"The New Agers' goal is to pit the Protestants against the Cstholic"
No, since the reformation there's division between protestants and catholics. The plan is to make the reformation undone. More and more protestants are embracing roman catholicism.
Silvia
JD,
Why would God create Jesus in a sinful human vessel?
I believe the answer is that He didn't. He purified the vessel. That is what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is all about.
Original sin don't just come through bloodline of the human father. It comes through the mother also. We are born into sin both through our mother and through our earthly father. Jesus was born of Mary and if she would have been infected with original sin, then Jesus would have been infected also. Original sin is kind of like the HIV virus or alcoholism. If the mother has it during pregnancy then the child gets it. Of course every mother (except Mary) has original sin.
If she was conceived with original sin, then Jesus who is spotless would be at enmity with his mother at the moment of his conception.
Scripture tells us Eve was conceived without sin. The Church has always believed it is only fitting that the new Eve (Mary) should be born without sin also.
Most certainly God could have protected Jesus from sin while in the womb of Mary without protecting Mary from sin, but that would put him in enmity with his mother, which seems pretty far fetched. His mother was going to be the one to nurse him and teach him and feed him. We have a biblical precident for God wanting a pure vessel for the Word of God (Exodus 25:10-22).
Mary is the New Eve and the Jesus is the New Adam. Mary's "Yes" undid Eve's "no." If Eve was conceived without sin, which the Bible says she was, then Mary, the New Eve, who is greater than Eve, would also be born without sin.
Adam and Eve were conceived without sin, Mary is more holy than Eve
Scripture tells us that besides Jesus, God conceived two other humans without sin. They were Adam and Eve. They were conceived in a sinless state. Catholics believe that Mary's is the new Eve.
Eve came out of Adam's body (rib) Jesus, the new Adam (1 Cor 15:22) came out of Mary's body.
Eve was approached by an angel - a fallen archangel - satan. This fallen angel made a proposition to Eve to eat the fruit, to which Eve said "yes" which set in motion the fall. Mary was approached by the Archangel Gabriel. Mary said "yes" which set in motion the Birth of the Saviour.
Adam was conquered by sin though a tree. Eve was there at the foot of the tree when sin conquered man. Jesus conquered sin on a tree (the Cross is often called a "tree " in Scripture). Mary was at the foot of the "tree" (the cross) when sin was conquered by man (God).
Does the Bible present Mary as the new Ark of the Covenant?
The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex 25:10)
The Word became Flesh (John 1)
The Ark carried the Word of God (Deut 10:1)
The Ark carried the Old Covenant.
Mary carried the Word of God (Lk 2:38) Mary carried the New Covenant
David says "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam 6:9)
Elizabeth says "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me" (Lk 1:43) (Mary, was pregnant with Jesus)
When the Ark returned "David was leaping and dancing before the Lord" (2 Sam 6:14)
The baby leaped for joy in Elizabeth's womb when Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying Jesus in her womb. (Lk 2 38)
There I have set the ark in which is the covenant of the Lord that he made with his people Israel (2Ch 6:11)
Jesus is the new Covenant and he is in Mary's womb, which makes Mary the ark of the New Covenant.
Elizabeth's husband Zechariah said "He has remembered his holy covenant (Lk 1:72) ...The cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood (Lk 22:20)
Joshua summoned the twelve men from the Israelite, whom he had appointed, one from each tribe. Joshua said to them "Pass on before the ark of the Lord your God." (Josh 4:4)
There were 12 stones like the 12 stars in Rev.. The ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; ... 12 :1 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman ...and on her head a crown of twelve stars. (Rev 11:19) representing the tribes of Israel.
In Joshua Chapter 6, the Israelites circle Jericho with the Ark of the Covenant and blowing horns for seven days before their victory.
In Revelation Chapter 8-11 before the introduction the Ark of the covenant (Chapter 12) the angels blow seven trumpets to herald the victory over Satan.
The Ark of the Lord is a blessing to the house (2 Sam 6:11)
Mary goes into the hills and blesses Elizabeth's house (Lk 2 38)
The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
Mary is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Mat 2:14)
The Ark disappears (Jer 3:16) never to return until the New Testament Revelation story The Ark reappears as a lady who bears a son who is seated at the right hand of God . Her children are Christians. (Rev 11:19)
It will not be like the covenant that I made...that they broke though I was their husband (Jer 31:31)
The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you; therefore the son to be born to you ...will be called the Son of God (Lk 1:35) (The Holy Spirit was Mary's spouse)
Savvy
Go Susanna!!!
I am nowhere near the scholar that some of you are, in Catholic history and doctrine, and Protestant history and doctrine. although certainly I have studied, and, with Joyce, I believe most of us in the English speaking countries have some remnants of Israel in our blood. I know that I do have this, from many evidences that I will not write here, in order not to write at length, at very great length.
My reaction to all Protestant and Catholic situations is experiential.
I have simply found some good Catholic parishes which follow Jesus, and bad Catholic parishes, who would rather follow the Father of Lies and mix in pagan things and New Age things. I have found some good Protestant parishes, although few, where the Word of God is rightly divided. I have found some dead Protestant parishes, devoid of passion for the Lord, the very walking breathing examples of the Church at Ephesus; the dead ones are the ones most likely to try to get some foreign blood in their systems to revive them, i.e. some New Age claptrap, etc.
So from my point of view the Protestant Catholic debate is not important to this blog except when it shows us where the New Age pagan roots have crept in unaware, like poisonous snakes coming through the cellars of Protestant and Catholic parishes alike.
Mariel
Silvia,
Declaring Mediatrix a dogma would mean that we were required as Catholics to believe it. It wouldn't be "just a formality."
As for holiness, you are right. Only God is holy just as the Scriptures say.
Any holiness that human beings have - including Mary - is a secondary holiness in so far as it is a participation in God's holiness.
Silvia, one of the main reasons I avoid discussing specifically Catholic beliefs like Mary here unless it is to put something into context so people will understand what I am talking about, is because the Rule of Faith is not the same for Catholics and Protestants.
The Old Testaments of our Bibles are not the same either.
The rock bottom fundamental beliefs we DO agree on are embodied in the Chalcedonian and Nicene Creeds - which are Biblical.
I think that the best thing that we can do is to work together in fighting the New Age Movement for the sake of the things we DO agree on while respecting each others sincerity with regard to our differences.
As I have said before, this is not
false "ecumenism." This is "obeying the Great Commandment."
The think that what is of the utmost importance has to do with what we believe about Jesus Christ.
In the end, this is what will separate the sheep from the goats.
Mariel,
Re: So from my point of view the Protestant Catholic debate is not important to this blog except when it shows us where the New Age pagan roots have crept in unaware, like poisonous snakes coming through the cellars of Protestant and Catholic parishes alike.
I couldn't agree more. Since this is supposed to be a non-sectarian blog, specific Protestant, Catholic and Jewish beliefs should only be brought into the mix if they are needed to put something into context so that the readers here will know what the commenter is talking about. Not for the purpose of engaging in religious polemics.
Susanna, if you knew me you would know that I'm hardly of the mindset "let's just all get along". My husband and I left the only denomination we had ever known (since childhood) a few years ago. He had even pastored a church in this denomination. Through much Bible study we realized our denomination was not compatable with Biblical truth, because our conscience was captive to the Word of God, we left and our world was turned upside down. As I said, truth matters, and I've lived that out.
I'm just letting you know that your message can be lost through your tone, thats all.
Before I leave this blog for good, one
quick clarification.....for the few who still have ears to hear....
I checked the patents...
Stocklin applied for a patent for his inventinon- "simulated hearing using microwave transmissions" back in 1983. He did not invent or patent the SSSS system.
SSSS was invented and patented by Dr. Oliver Lowery nearly ten years later.
Just think, soon we'll all hear the voice of "god" playing continuously through our digital televisions and computers. No more arguments over religion! Everything will become crystal clear. And don't think you can avoid the demon chatter by just unplugging and going off grid, because all those patriots dug into a bunker in Montana, as well as the bushmen out in the kalihari, will likely still be "touched" through HAARP or other related technologies.
The Spider sure knows how to spin one helluva web.
Rod Serling would be most pleased.
Take care all,
OMOTS is done.... at least here.
To Mariel (8:59 PM):
Thank you for your very beautfiully expressed thoughts.
Yes, the bottom line is that the New Age Movement is an equal opportunity offender - which does not discriminate. Since we can expect infiltration to occur more and more within all 3 religious groups - all of us just have to remain alert and watchful at all times - and pray, pray, pray.
Susanna and Mariel,
Well said.
Savvy
Jaclyn
Re: Your comment
I'm just letting you know that your message can be lost through your tone, thats all.
Yes Jaclyn. Truth DOES matter. I have lived that out as well.
Long enough to know that messages can be lost through unjust bias as well.
Again, I am assuming you mean well, but when you speak in terms of being "taken aback" as if Joyce is the only one who has taken a verbal "beating" here, this indicates to me that you may need to go back and read this whole blog for the past few months to learn the truth about how this trashfest all got started.
Also, if anyone thinks the "Whore of Babylon" videos and books (by Alexander Hislop and Dave Hunt)was not beyone the pale, their "message" was lost on me light years ago.
Bella and Jaclyn,
Many thanks for your Smart Grid information. I have shared your knowledge with a friend of mine. Both of us are just amazed at what you have written and opened our eyes, and many others, to.... I do hope that you take Constance's offer to do the radio show.
Catholic churches always have four scriptural readings from which the homily is supposed to be based. Most of the liturgical year readings are from:
1. Old Testament
2. Psalms
3. New Testament
4. THE GOSPEL (Matthew, Mark,Luke, and/or John)
Lay people acting as "lectors" generally do 1 and 3. The cantor or minister of music usually leads on the psalms which has congregational participation. Only the priest or a deacon after priestly blessing does the Gospel.
Catholic scriptural coverage is thorough, designed to read the entire Bible to those attending daily on a 3 year span and those going only weekly on a 7 year span. There is HEAVY and LENGTHY Scriptural readings during the Psalm Sunday, Good Friday, and Easter Vigil services.
The notion that Catholics don't read or hear their Bibles is a false one.
Saavy,
While I understand your point of view regarding Mary as a pure vessel I have to disagree with you. I agree with your "sin is like HIV" in the sense that the disease of man is passed from generation to generation. However the simple fact that Jesus was the Word made flesh would have protected Him from the disease.
God's Light and the darkness of sin can not coexist. While I like the old covenant/new covenant- ark/Mary idea in principle,for me it negates some very important principles.
This may rub some wrong nut please let me explain fully before firing off a post.
1) The Ark itself is a heap of wood and gold. Nothing more, nothing holy at all. Lev 4:15 forward speaks specificly toward idol worship. We are also told not to worship things of wood, gold, or stone, because these things are dead. The Ark is a box.
2) However the box had a purpose, as it carried the Ten commandments, or if you will, the Word of the Lord. The Law. The Word itself is what was holy. In the days of Moses, the Lords presence rested strictly within the Word. Just as the Lord's presence continues to rest within the Word.
3) Mary was a woman, and in this woman the Lord saw fit to make the Word flesh. In order for Mary to have been sanctified in the way you describe, she, herself would need to have been miraculously spared the disease at her conception.
4) When Jesus dies on the cross, the sin of the world is bound by His death. His flawless life sacrificed, overcame the disease. Had He not carried the disease itself Satan would never have tempted Him, since if His flesh wasn't bound to sin, there would have not been the ability for Him to be tempted.
5) The Ark and Mary are mirrors of each other on the old and new covenant, on that we agree. In both cases however I disagree with the reverence for the vessels, the Word is and has always been what was holy.
Phrases like this are becoming too familiar.
Never waste a good crisis, Clinton says on climate
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told an audience Friday "never waste a good crisis," and highlighted the opportunity of rebuilding economies in a greener, less energy-intensive way.
http://in.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idINTRE5251VN20090306
Dear JD,
Trying to do some follow-up with your post earlier. The first two are info that I think you might have read already, but on the worldwartwozone.com site there are other links to follow.
The last link here is from the stevequayle.com site. He's got some interesting stuff on his site, some of which seems legit, some of which seems like possible disinfo. At this link, he is emphasizing the "Operation Paperclip" thing, which seems to tie into the placement of some of the Nazi scientists here in the
U. S.
Anyhow, considering the current mode of discussion here on this current thread, I want to caution you, because I came across some disinfo regarding the Vatican and ODESSA on some other sites. They didn't provide any evidence for their claims, and considering that the whole concept of ODESSA is shrouded in some myths + some facts, I thought it prudent to warn you and any others who may follow-up further with this particular post.
It's interesting info to be sure, and I'll be looking for what you find in your search as well.
Hope this helps a little. :-)
Link-
http://tiny.cc/lQT7T
or
http://worldwartwozone.com/forums/other-world-war-ii-topics/729-odessa.html
Link-
http://tiny.cc/KIoEH
or
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/odessa.html
Link-
http://tiny.cc/zGExN
or
http://www.stevequayle.com/High.Jump/Vril.and.Andromeda.html
By His Grace,
-SV
Constance
I am humbled by the offer to come on your show. You are a mentor for me. I feel my research on the smart grid still needs further exploration for me to feel comfortable expressing it on the air. The pieces are just coming together for me. I will be happy to post things as I find them. Once I am confident my data is more complete I would be honored to consider your kind request.
The areas I have researched for decades are similar to yours. I research the big picture and plans of the occult and the grass-roots movements of the occult. They are becoming the spiritually and politically-correct view in the world. I tend to focus on and research the popular authors of today, what they are teaching and how they are changing the very fabric of our society, things like the law of attraction and the effect that it has had on society and all the self-help (self-focused-Prideful) movements that have become the norm today. I also look at the proponents like Oprah; she is working hard on the spiritual and political sides of the “Plan”.
I try to see everything from the big picture then break it down in areas that most affect us, tracing all of it back to the original occult teachings.
I look at social trends that have been leading us purposely down the occult path since the beginning of time. I watch for all the many ways that Lucifer appears as an angel of light to the world.
In looking at the whole plan of Lucifer I see it within the context of pride verses humility. “Thy will not mine” or “My will not Thine”. From this vantage point you can better perceive what is occult in nature and what is not. When you also look at it from force or free will that also shows which side it comes from.
My area of expertise is not the smart grid. I stumbled onto it along with the Internet of Things when looking into the areas of surveillance and control. From all appearances, the smart grid and the internet of things may go hand in hand and at one point be the same meter. Due to their possible far reaching implications I have been trying to understand the capacity of both regarding their possible future use and the consequences thereof.
I feel we have been systematically stripped of our desire and comfort level for privacy so we can be controlled via these kinds of technology. From talk-shows sharing our dirty laundry, reality TV, face-book, Google, unconditional love of the new age preached and many other things are slowly conditioning us to not feel we need privacy. So when it comes to the internet of things we will embrace it. We will look at it like it is just an upgrade of technology, not see it for what it is. But it will completely control us. We have become desensitized to the loss of privacy in order to make us willing to embrace the “oneness” of the occult and its government. We will accept the unconditional love and non-judgmental attitudes of the occult and all the new wonderful technology of “oneness” that goes with it. It is just like the story of boiling a frog, if you put it in pot of hot water it would jump out, if you put it in a pot of tepid water and slowly turn up the heat he will sit there until he is boiled to death. I feel that is where we are at. We are almost cooked. The occult and new world order have their ducks in a row, and most do not know what their ducks look like or how they quack!
Thank you for the offer to join you on the radio. I want to make sure I have enough verified data to be worthy of sharing and fully exposing it.
If you want to discuss an overview of my research I would be willing to talk with you in private at first and see if there was anything you wanted to use on your radio show. But at this point I do not feel I have enough on just this one subject to focus a show on. I have data on all kinds of subjects but not enough on this one as of yet. But I am working on it!
Bella
Dear Rudi,
I've been meaning to post a note to you regarding the link to "The Rainbow Swastika".
I don't know what the deal was on the first day you posted it. I began reading and I got about 1/4 of the way through, then I just had to stop for a bit because I had such a strong urge to just lose my temper -like throwing some of my pillows and kicking the couch- just this deep anger! I've had to go back over the last few days and read it slowly with a lot of prayer in between the breaks.
I'm so angry that satan has deceived the masses! This junk reads like a creepy sci-fi novel, and yet people are hooked on it!
As a result of reading it, however, I understand the significance of Venus "signaling" the return of their "Maitreya" right now, and I get why the 666 number is showing up everywhere because it's used as the "energy" deliberately being released to destroy the "old" and ring in the "new", as well as many other concepts that I needed to grasp in order to better comprehend "The Plan".
Thanks for sharing the link.
I'm reposting the link here too, because I know that it's been really helpful to me.
I was previously feeling a little less compassionate for those who've chosen to "drink the kool-aid" before reading this info, but after reading this thoroughly, I'm feeling deep anger and sorrow for them at the perpetuation of these filthy lies and disgusting measures of deception throughout the centuries.
Anyway, thanks for posting this info, Rudi.
Here's that link again-
http://philologos.org/__eb-trs/naC.htm#black%20lodge
or here-
http://tiny.cc/0oHat
By His Grace,
-SV
Dear Oldmanoftheski,
I can't accept your resignation!
Your contribution is wonderful!
I know some days are better than others, here, but I pray that you'll stay and share your research and insight with the ears that WILL hear.
Not that my opinion is worth a whole heck of alot, but you're an amazing contributor and a brother in Christ whom I will greatly miss.
I'll be praying for you, Oldman.
By His Grace,
-SV
There's at least a hundred comments that have been posted since the last time I visited the blog, so no time to read all of them, although I skimmed to get the general feeling of what's going on.
First I want to say, that Old Man of the Ski, sorry that you feel that you want to leave.. you are valuable contributor.
To all the offended Catholics, no one is against YOU. I know lots of nice individual Catholics who are genuinely sincere people. The problem is that genuinely nice people don't always represent what's going on at the top of the hierarchy, nor do they really see it.
As for the religions attacking one another being a New Age plot, I see it this way:
Albert Pike said there would be 3 world wars. The last one would be of a religious nature and this would lead to the NWO. The reason that the religion wars lead to a NWO is because as soon as this "Clash of Civilizations" takes place, there are those who would try to "solve the problem" by making an "Alliance of Civilizations".
We see this taking place on every level, political, economic and religious.
Personally, I prefer to maintain my distinctives spiritually and defend my faith in opposition to the idea that is held on this blog which is that Jews, Catholics, Protestants, and everyone else really have a war against the New Age and that's the priority.
The meshing and merging of spirituality is part of last days prophecy. It's called babel, confusion.
The peace, peace, peace that everyone is calling for will not happen through ecumenism, cultural mixing and economic order. This is what the Bible says the deception is.
As long as I have breath in me, I will stand against Catholic doctrine ( not Catholic people -big distinction). The foundations are errant which makes the rest of the system errant.
Vatican II is another attempt to destroy what happened at the Reformation. The sleeping part of the Evangelical community happily joining hands to accomplish the UN Millennial Development Goals with the Catholics, Muslims, Jews, etc.
I think there are those here who see it, and those who don't..
Joyce
SV,
I appreciate the links. I also appreciate the warning.
Oldmanoftheski
Please don't go. Can I ask why you are leaving? Is it to unplug as you say or is because of something about this site?
I respect you and will miss you and your contributions!
If you get this message feel free to email me from my blogspot. I have been impressed with you and I don't want to lose connection with you if at all possible.
Rose
I predicted and how right I was:
Jaclyn, there is no discussing with Joyce. She's like the energizer bunny who just goes on and on with yards and yards of postings, never pausing to stop to respond to serious comments. Watch..after all of this she'll be back tomorrow or the day after bashing Catholics and giving her interpretations of Bible passages.
To Joyce (2:16 AM):
Re: "As long as I have breath in me, I will stand against Catholic doctrine (not Catholic people -big distinction). The foundations are errant which makes the rest of the system errant."
___________________________________
Joyce, let me present a possible scenario to you.
What are you going to do when you do pass on and cross over to the other side and meet Jesus for the first time and HE says to you:
"Joyce, I DID create the Catholic Church while I was living on earth and I DID make Peter My first Pope."
Are you going to argue with HIM just like you argue with us Catholics on this blog???
Because, at that point, you will no longer have "a breath left in you."
I echo this statement:
Dear Oldmanoftheski,
I can't accept your resignation!
Your contribution is wonderful!
I know some days are better than others, here, but I pray that you'll stay and share your research and insight with the ears that WILL hear.
Not that my opinion is worth a whole heck of alot, but you're an amazing contributor and a brother in Christ whom I will greatly miss.
I'll be praying for you, Oldman.
By His Grace,
-SV
YOU CAN NOT GO OLDMANOFTHESKI - WE ALL NEED EACH OTHER FOR THE DANGEROUS ROAD THAT LIES SHORTLY AHEAD OF US ALL. - PLEASE.
DouginMI
anonymous, are you serious? Jesus is going to affirm he did establish the catholic church and made Peter is first pope?
This is already addressed in God's Word, don't wait until you "get to the other side", please study God's word for yourself, He has already spoken, hear him.
JD,
Good insights, The Israelites did not worship the ark, but did hold it in high esteem.
The Lord punished (killed) those who did not have utmost respect for Ark (1 Chr. 13:10-11) and blessed those who took it into their care (1 Chr. 13:14).
Baptism and the Immaculate Conception
Catholics believe the role of baptism is to cleanse us of original sin that began with Adam eating the apple in the garden of Eden, that caused the downfall of humankind, and introduced death into the world. Catholics baptize shortly after birth to wash away the original sin and to infuse the child with the grace of the Holy Spirit. What the Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is saying is that in the case of Mary, this baptism was kind of moved forward to the moment of her conception.
Evangelical radio program "A Love Worth Finding" which features the late Pastor Adrian Roger's. The show plays on hundreds of stations around the world. Pastor Adrian was defending the necessity for a virgin birth. He said something very powerful:
"Jesus had to be born through a virgin birth because he could not be corrupted by original sin of Adam." (CHRI Radio, Dec 23, 2006)
In order for the good pastor's logic to make sense in his defense of the virgin birth, there would also have to be a way to purify the vessel of Mary before Jesus was conceived. We Catholics believe the God prepared this place by freeing Mary of the burden of original sin. If she was conceived with original sin, then Jesus who is spotless would be at enmity with his mother at the moment of his conception.
In the radio show, Pastor Adrian Rogers was comparing the purity of Jesus to the sin of Adam. I think that is very interesting. The early Christians did that and also compared Mary (the Mother of the living) to Eve (the Mother of the dead). Eve's cooperation with Satan led Adam to introduce death into the world. Mary's cooperation with God introduced Jesus and life to the world. Scripture tells us Eve was conceived without sin. The Church has always believed it is only fitting that the new Eve (Mary) should be born without sin also.
In Catholic tradition the parents of Mary are Joachim and Anne (taking from man early writings of Christians).However, they conceived Mary in the same way as all humans, and they were not sinless.
The Immaculate Conception simply means that through the merits of Jesus, Mary was preserved from original sin.
This does not place Mary on a level of equality with her Divine Son, Jesus Christ. Rather it refers to Mary's unique human participation which is completely secondary and subordinate to the redeeming role of Jesus, who alone is true God and true Man.
To your note on Jesus being tempted, Jesus was tempted, but did not give in, or he could not give in, because he was sinless.
You seem to be separating Jesus divine nature from his human nature. They are both inseparable.
A Nestorian heresy tried to present Jesus as pure spirit who only took on humanity as a convenience, like a coat, thereby separating his human and divine nature.
The second person of the Trinity, could not dwell in an unholy womb, that would blasphemous.
Savvy
Thank you all for your kind words.
As I see it, SSSS is the last thread. There’s really nothing more to say. The Spider’s Web is complete.
As Glen Beck would say, here’s how I got there:
It’s now obvious that the switchover from analog to digital was for the sole purpose of freeing up UHF bandwidth. SSSS utilizes UHF frequencies and it was just too crowded with all the television signals to be utilized effectively. SSSS can and will be broadcast all over the world using UHF, microwave, digital, as well as HAARP and/or similar transmission sources simultaneously. The fact is, you won’t need a digital TV or a converter box to “hear” the subliminal messages. The potential effect of the combination of visual, auditory, and sensual inducements is indeed mind-boggling. Not only will we all likely HEAR and SEE the same things, but we will also FEEL the same things. And there is no worldly defense. We will sense HIM/THEM/IT in a yurt up in Alaska. We will sense HIM/THEM/IT while we are out herding goats in Africa or skiing deep powder snow in the Cascades. And perhaps we will even sense HIM/THEM/IT while we are on our knees praying in our own churches.
The gospel message of God’s love and redemption has been preached here over and over at one time or another by most of you regulars. I’ve been encouraged, informed, alerted, and corrected on this blog. Thank you. But all things come to an end. It is quite possible we are already “receiving” virtually undetectable SSSS transmissions via sources we can only imagine. This could explain all the back and forth theological bickering and one-up-man-ship taking place on this blog. I’m sure I’m not the only one who posts here who’d like to punch everyone right in the nose! But then again, my own admittedly “violent” reaction could be an indicator that I’m already picking up some targeted subliminal suggestions that fit my personality profile.
I am reminded of an experience I had nearly thirty years ago during my very last sweat lodge with the shaman, Sun Bear. This “black hearted two legged” invited demonic entity after demonic entity to come in to the lodge and fellowship with us. I sat there, shivering in the black cold even though logic told me the temperature was near 400 degrees. I was naked, confused, and feeling very much alone. My mind just could not fathom what my body was sensing. I could feel HIM/THEM/IT all around me. If I had not been in Christ Jesus, washed by His blood, and sealed by His Holy Spirit, I’m sure my immediate outcome would have been quite tragic. Indeed, there were tangible consequences. There was actual damage done, real wounds inflicted upon my soul. It is exactly the same for every one of us now, in these last days.
We are sitting in a “global sweat lodge”. The door is open, and the shaman is calling in demons.
I'm done looking down.
OMOTS, Thanks for shedding more light on SSSS technology. We all should Tune in: hard as we can, to the Word, Turn on: to the pure and Holy and Drop out: of Babylon completely. It will be absolutely requisite soon. shalom brother
It seems clearer to me as time goes by, that subliminal mind control is like the capstone for the tower building globalists. We have centuries of social, so called "scientific", education system, and "spiritual" indoctrination, et al, toward a purely secular, Babylonian, luciferic world.
Now technologically induced subliminal indoctrination into this new age, is one of the big final keys i think, to break the language barrier, and the sovereign nation division that resulted from confounding the tongues at the tower of babel.
Its all a big, "undoing" of Gods will for mankind attempt again. This time with technology as "brick, and slime"
The NA alchemists have lots of knowledge of "vibrational" witchcraft, as they seek to digitally dominate the denizens of this world.
They are the "soul merchants", "wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever".
I used to do some tree trimming for a PHD sound engineer when i was living in Arizona, and was shown by him some very expensive frequency generating equipment he had in his sound studio. He had a business in which he would record your voice, and by the vibration of the voice, detect imbalances in your physical, mental, and spiritual person. He called it "Health Freqs". There were 10 wishes, or "prayers" you would add to your "voice print" as well. He would then cut a CD with some corrective frequencies added, and you would listen to it with high quality, broad sound spectrum headphones, and it would bring balance to body, mind, spirit? I did not partake! He referred to it, if i remember correctly "audio homeopathy"? He knew all the frequencies for the various organs, and structures of the body, and ones that affect mind. He told me NASA has all the frequencies of matter, and I'm sure, very sophisticated knowledge of how to affect it?
It seems obvious that visual mass media as well, is designed to manipulate thinking. Look at all the "flash advertising" on television. We are way past the hour we should have "killed the television" Think about it. Would Jesus sit quietly with us in our living room, and watch TV? I think we would be embarrassed, and ashamed. Well, He is there with us, if He lives in us!!!
Mary, thanks for your comment, re: the smart grid. Actually, my contribution re: the smart grid is very limited, I forwarded an article that simplified the concepts and made it possible for me to vaguely understand. I'm so technologically challenged, my brain functions much better in front of a canvas with a paint brush in my hand. I will continue to forward information as I find it. Technology moves so quickly we all have to run to keep up, any extra information is always appreciated ;-)
Dear Oldman,
Precious friend, I encourage you to remember that we have not been appointed for God's wrath (I Thess.5:9) but to obtain salvation through Christ Jesus. God has given us every vital tool that we need for protection against the evil one.
You're so right about the SSSS; the spider's web.
But, Paul forewarned us in Ephesians that we would "not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." Yet He has given us the strength to endure and to "take up the whole armor of God" that we will be able to withstand this evil day!
Therefore, we STAND- fully girded at the waist with the TRUTH; having placed the breastplate of RIGHTEOUSNESS; having shod our feet with the GOSPEL OF PEACE; having taken up the SHIELD OF FAITH to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one; having placed the HELMET OF SALVATION taking up the SWORD OF THE SPIRIT which is GOD'S WORD. Therefore let us PRAY ALWAYS with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being ever watchful to this end, with great perseverance and supplication for all
the saints! -Eph 6:12-18.
Take comfort, brother, and continue to STAND FAST because "God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the TRUTH to which He called you by the gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ"- 2 Thess. 2:13,14.
You have been firmly established, even for such a time as this, dear friend, and so has each one here who loves God with all of their heart, mind, soul, and strength!
The Lord is my strength and my salvation- thus whom shall I fear?!
In His Love,
-SV
Well said, SV. The Lord WILL come through for those who love Him.
Silvia
From FP
Call for suspension of EU`s Association Agreement wit Israel
"illegal annexation of East Jerusalem"
Yes, OMOTS, and all here, and through out this world who are in Yahushua.
There will be very dark days for us, but never the less our Heavenly Father will be glorified in his people through it all!!!
Just want to post this video that was prior to Blair's departure as Prime Minister and prior to his conversion to Catholicism. Listen carefully. I believe that this idea to reverse the historical break between the Anglican Church and the Catholic was underway, and Blair's role as Mideast envoy for the Roadmap was already in view.
http://tiny.cc/Cnn4I
Apropos to that, Northern Ireland is once again in the news with some recent killings. Remember that the peace here was supposed to be the model for Middle East Peace with both Blair and George Mitchell playing roles in both scenarios. We should be watching this with interest as I believe there will be connections between the two situations, although I'm not sure exactly how:
http://tiny.cc/tXhfJ
The truth is that true reconciliation is first with God through Yeshua, and then with one another. Any political or religious attempts to create the false reconciliation will always fail. Reconciling Irish Catholics with British Protestants is not simply a question of a "power-sharing" government. It is a question of dealing with the issues in the heart, the hatred, the bitterness, the resentment, etc.
When these issues are dealt with because of what Yeshua did on the tree, then and only then the differences in opinion can be dealt with.
The world's politicians cannot do this. We forgive because we've been forgiven. .That's first and foremost for those who have been redeemed by the blood of Messiah. Then we deal with the source of our bitterness and resentments, based on the truth and only the truth of Scripture. This is true reconciliation and shalom, versus what the world is trying to do in Northern Ireland and in the Middle East Peace process.
*************************************
Now I do want to deal with a few issues that I found skimming from some of the earlier posts, some from Savvy I think:
"I think that Christians in heaven pray through Christ much better than you and me. They are much closer to Christ than you and me"
I want to disagree with that. That undermines what Scripture says about us right now, those of us who are in Him:
Eph. 2:4 But God, being arich in mercy, because of bHis great love with which He loved us,
Eph. 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (bby grace you have been saved),
Eph. 2:6 and araised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
We are already seated with Him in the heavenly places, thus we are before His throne when we pray. We don't need to put someone in between us and God. If we can only grasp this we could pray with real belief. It sounds to me praying "through others" indicates that our new birth has not yet happened or perhaps is not fully understood. I am not saying this to criticize but to encourage you to go directly to His throne.
Heb. 4:16 Therefore let us adraw near with bconfidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Just a few other things that caught my eye:
"Jesus is the new Covenant and he is in Mary's womb, which makes Mary the ark of the New Covenant."
It's not accurate to call Mary an "ark"
Just a simple hebrew lexicon will show you that Mary was not any of this:
727. אׇרוֹן }arown, aw-rone´; or אׇרֹן }aron, aw-rone´; from 717 (in the sense of gathering); a box:—ark, chest, coffin.
She is not a box, and certainly not a coffin.
Yeshua is not "the covenant". The covenant was in His blood. Since He was slain since the foundation of the earth, Mary was a vessel that God chose to use but there is not talk in Scripture of her being 'immaculate". She was a "young woman" a "virgin" which is the Hebrew word in Isaiah.
Is. 7:14 “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.
Mary's lineage is clearly outlined in the Bible and she would have sin, just like all of us. Yeshua's birth being of the Ruach HaKodesh instead of by corrupt human seed is why He is blameless.
The fact is that the Bible doesn't talk about Mary nearly as much as Catholic doctrine does, so there seems to be a great gap between Scripture and Catholic theology on this issue.
For example, the assumption.. is not to be found in Scripture, her Immaculate conception ( sinless state) is not found. Her perpetual virginity is not found either, nor would that honor God in any way since marriage and having children are something that He created and are good. Man and Woman becoming "one flesh" is not against God, only when it is perverted is it against God.
If Joseph never consummated his marriage to Mary, that would be problematic, since the consummation of marriage is "becoming one flesh" and actually glorifies God and His creation. The Bible says that Yeshua had brothers and sisters, but I know that Catholics spiritualize that away and say those were not literal brothers and sisters.
In fact the consummation of marriage is the reflection of Yeshua and His body according to Ephesians.
Eph. 5:31-32 aFOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
Yeshua was not conceived with the corrupt seed of man, but was born of the Spirit as we too need to be "re-born" in order to become New Creations.
We are born of corrupt seed, but in Him die to our old self and are born again to be new creations, with His righteousness.
2Cor. 5:17 Therefore if anyone is ain Christ, he is ba new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. When we are born of the spirit, we become the righteousness of Messiah, but at the same time each one of us is a unique creation with our own gifts and calling.
Eph. 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God dprepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
...so in Him we have the righteousness of Yeshua, but the unique gifts that God gave us to walk in the good works He prepared for us. That means everyone on this blog.
God said it is not good for man to be alone, and made Eve out of Adam's rib, but Mary descended from the family of David and her lineage is listed, so the comparison between Mary and Eve in this regard is also troubling, not to mention that Mary was Yeshua's earthly mother, not His wife, so if Yeshua is the second Adam, that would be a real perversion to call Mary a second Eve..Yeshua did not marry His mother.
Yeshua came from Mary's womb, but at the same time He is the creator. The great mystery of all of this is that God was willing to humble Himself to come as a man with all the limitations of a human being, even though through Him all things were made. Mary was chosen as a humble Jewish woman who was obedient to God. I don't want to denegrate Miriam, but I also don't want to make her into something the Bible does not do. We can identify with her because she was human and suffered watching her Son give His life on a Roman cross.
I think we should be faithful to the Biblical text and not take away from it, nor add to it, where it concerns Miriam. The truth is that Yeshua did not really have a mother because He was the creator not the creation. In all of the art from the period of the Renaissance and early periods, Mary lifted above Yeshua. In many cases the statues and paintings in the cathedrals and in the mountains in Europe ( which is forbidden by Scripture) depicts Mary as all powerful mother, and Yeshua either as a helpless baby or dead on a cross, hanging lift.
Yeshua did elect to come as baby, and did elect to die on a tree, but He did not rest baby or dead and I think this is a point that receives very little attention in my personal experience in Catholicism.
We are not to depict Yeshua according to the Scriptures because the risk is that we would somehow depict God as something He is not. I think this has happened over the centuries and many very gifted artists like Michelangelo and DaVinci, Donatello, Botacelli have created graven images of God that can in no way represent the I WILL Be What I will Be. I think this is why God is against these images. He doesn't want us to become attached to an image of Him but to walk with Him listening to His voice and knowing Him as He reveals Himself.
Personally, I took me years to get those ideas about Yeshua out of my head. When I realized He was a Jew, and was probably not blond haired and blue eyed, and His nose may have been a little crooked, but more importantly I realized that He actually was the Creator, not a baby, that changed a lot of things.
Is. 53:2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
"his fallen angel made a proposition to Eve to eat the fruit, to which Eve said "yes" which set in motion the fall. Mary was approached by the Archangel Gabriel. Mary said "yes" which set in motion the Birth of the Saviour.
Adam was conquered by sin though a tree. Eve was there at the foot of the tree when sin conquered man. Jesus conquered sin on a tree (the Cross is often called a "tree " in Scripture). Mary was at the foot of the "tree" (the cross) when sin was conquered by man (God)"
Again the logic here is flawed.
Here's another that baffles me from Savvy:
"
The Ark of the Lord is a blessing to the house (2 Sam 6:11)
Mary goes into the hills and blesses Elizabeth's house (Lk 2 38) "
Mary is a woman, the Ark is a wooden box.
The womb has to do with birth. Yeshua who was the creator, come in flesh was born supernaturally. There is no doubt. There is probably a lot that could be said here about the womb and the significance but I'll leave that for the moment. It should be a very interesting study though.
A covenant, which is an alliance is through blood, and while there is blood at birth, it was not the birth of Yeshua that fulfilled the covenant but His death and resurrection. The birth was a fulfillment of prophecy and without it the covenant could not be renewed with Israel. The renewal of this covenant was an improvement over the sacrifices of bulls and goals which could not take away sin. The Bible says clearly that the covenant was in His blood.
Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is apoured out for you is the new( renewed) covenant in My blood.
To renew the covenant, God Himself had to die. That allowed for the renewing of the covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah, which would be written on their minds. Israel who now became the fulness of the Nations and Judah, the Jews:
Heb. 9:16-18 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it.
For a 1covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood.
What Yeshua's death did was to remove the penalty of death against us when He bore our sins. That was what was effectuated with His death on the tree.
God said we should not put other "gods" on His face. That is what this verse means:
Ex. 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
That's the literal meaning of this verse.
Just a few thoughts.
Joyce
To Anonymous (12:38 PM)
Re: "Anonymous, are you serious? Jesus is going to affirm he did establish the catholic church and made Peter his first pope?"
___________________________________
I am QUITE serious. If you truly believe in "God's WORD" -- then you can not just SELECT the biblical passages that you happen to like or prefer.
You have to accept ALL of it --including Matthew 16:18!!!
p.s. I'm not bashing anyone, but I do want to put forth some ideas from the Scriptures so we can think about these together.
I hope the comments aren't taken in a bad way, just want to preface that.
Saavy,
I'll try to cover the points you made here, so as to explain my position to the best of my ability.
On the baptism, I can see the point you make however, if baptism cleansed us from the original sin, which in itself IS the disease, we would be unbound from it. Therefore the symptoms of original sin would never be able to reenter ones life. I see baptism as a proclomation of faith that is required of us all. It is symbolic of the death and resurrection. Down with the old man, up with the new. Baptism in itself would be meaningless without belief in the living Messiah.
One can not seperate the spiritual and the flesh concerning Jesus. However by taking this into account, I don't agrre with the assesment that Jesus was unable to sin. If so His temptation would not have happened as it would have been pointless. I also believe this makes the life of our Savior all the more fantastic. Our Father made the Word flesh, He put the Word into a completely corruptable form, knowing the Word would not fail. Not that the ability to fail wasn't there. When one says Jesus overcame sin, I believe that means sin surrounded Him, as it does all flesh, yet He denied sin and conquered. To me this is the greatest miracle He performed.
33 years in an earthly body, being tempted by the same issues we face, yet He did not break. When you say you can not seperate His spiritual from His human nature, you confirm what I am trying to convey. For human nature is sin, only throughgrace do we receive the ability to overcome this. In the same sense, it was the divine half of our Saviour that allowed Him to overcome the human condition. This is simply my view, but if the Father had of wanted the Word in a uncoruptable form, He simply would have created Him the way He had Adam. This would have left Him unbound from sin. By making the Word flesh in the way He did, He eternally bound sin by nailing it to the tree with the Word. This at least to me is the true miracle of Jesus' life. Not that He was unable to sin or be tempted, but that He was able, and was tempted, yet overcame and paid our debt. I can understand elements of how you came to your beliefs, I just don't hold the same belief on the matter. To me Mary being free of original sin would be a huge link in the chain, so much so the the Father would have added emphasis on this point through prophecy, or we would at least have know this part of the story. While I agree the idea is plausible, it is still based in conjecture and interpretation. I see the virgin birth as our Father showing just how awesome His power truly is, and believe He had planned it this way with that exact purpose in mind from the begining. Not that it was neccesary to keep our Messiah sinless, Genesis shows there was a better way to do this with the creation of Adam.
Instead the Father showed His glory by making the Word flesh, by impregnating a virgin. Forever tying the Word with the sin of man. The Word overcame the sin He was born into through His life, death, and resurrection. For me to look at it the way you do takes away from the glorious act our Lord performed.
This is just my view on the matter, and that is all it is. I am greatfull that you would share your particular belief with me, and that we are able to converse about such with love and understanding. I wish there was more of this here!
Old Man of the Ski, I may be the only Christian here who "believes" in the rapture of the Called Out Ones.
I have held as my primary defense of this position that the technology of Brave New World would make it impossible for many to remain true. Their minds would be enslaved. So it may be that God will take them out to preserve their minds.
Can God defend us against the grid, even while we live on earth? Of course, but He could deliver us from evil and tempatation through the catching away.
Will there be Tribulation saints who escape with their minds intact, even while accepting martyrdom? It would seem to be probably so. But the Lord instructed us to pray to be delivered from temptation or (in some translations) delivered from the time of trial. Although there are many other scriptures which support the rapture (scriptures which are conversely used to deny the rapture), this one, in the Lord's own words, appeals to me most: pray to be delivered from evil, pray to be delivered from temptation, pray to be delivered from the time of trial.
What is coming, Jesus said, will be the worst time in history, beyond compare. Worse than the Inquisitions, the Shoah, the Black Death, the Potato Famine, and the Diaspora. From this I pray to be delivered.
Mariel
Joyce,
Mary is present at almost every major event in the life of Jesus:
His conception (Luke 1:2)
His development in the womb, including the fetal development of John the Baptist (Lk 1:43)
His birth (Lk 2:7)
Offering Him to God (Lk 2:22)
Early childhood (Lk 2:22-38)
His confirmation at 12 years old (Lk 2:49)
His start in public ministry and the first of his miracles, which she instigated. (Wedding at Cana Jn 2:3)
His death on Calvary (Jn 19:26)
The birth of the Church at the Pentecost (Acts 1:14).
I hardly think of these as a "few tiny references." I suggest that Mary's role in the Bible is infinitely greater than the prayer of Jabez who won so much attention from some Evangelicals.
Jesus is called the New Adam ,this does not mean Jesus is Adam or is married to Adam, anymore than saying Mary is the New Eve, will marry Jesus to his mother.
Jesus' Brothers
The idea that Mary had other children first surfaced from a guy named Helvidius around 380 A.D. and it caused quite a stir cause no one held that belief at the time. Jerome, responded with a treatise called On the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Mary. Jerome had access to much documentation from the early Church and he cited earlier well known Christian writers such as Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, and Justin Martyr. Helvidius was unable to come up with a reply. His theory died and lay dormant for over 1500 years until it recently resurfaced among modern Evangelicals.
In Scripture, we see many references to Jesus as Son of Mary but never do we see a reference to anyone else as Mary's literal son or daughter. The gospel account of 12-year-old Jesus lost in the temple does not mention siblings (Lk 2:42) nor does Jesus appear to have any blood brothers at the end of his life. Otherwise, He would have entrusted his mother to the care of his brother instead of the disciple John. (Jn 19:26-27) In Mark 3:20, "they went to take charge of him, for they said, 'He is out of his mind.'" In Jewish tradition the younger brothers would never give advice to an elder brother. It would make more sense for older cousins to give Jesus advice than younger brothers.
When Jesus stays in the Temple at 12 years old, there is no mention of Jesus' brothers or other children of Mary.(Lk 2:41-51). Jews used no birth control so if Mary was having sex it is likely Jesus would have had brothers by then. Jewish parents did not have to wait until they had a second son before they called a child "first born" because in Jewish law the first baby was always called "first born" regardless of whether or not their were any brothers. At the foot of the cross, Jesus hands Mary to the disciple John, if Jesus had brothers, He would have handed Mary to his brothers, not a disciple.(Jn 19:25-28).
Throughout the Bible, the term "brethren" (Adelphos) is freely used. For example, in 2 Kings 10:13-14, there is a reference to the forty-two "brethren" of King Ochozias. In Genesis 14:14, Lot is called Abraham's "brother" but Genesis 11:27 tells us that Haran is the father of Lot and Haran is brother's with Abraham's brother. That makes Abraham the uncle of Lot, and shows us another example of non-siblings being called brothers.
Evangelicals have pointed to Mt 1:25 that says "but had no marital relations with her until she had borne son". They say it is proof that she had children after she had Jesus. The word "until" implies that an action did not take place up to a certain point. It says nothing of what happened after that point. For example, 2 Sam 6:23 says, "Michale the daughter of Saul had no children until [heõs] the day of her death." This doesn't mean she had children after her death.
The title 'Ever Virgin' (aeiparthenos, semper virgo) arose early in Christianity . . . It was a stock phrase in the Middle Ages and continued to be used in Protestant confessional writings (Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Andrewes; Book of Concord [1580], Schmalkaldic Articles [1537]).
{Raymond E. Brown et al, ed., Mary in the New Testament, Phil.: Fortress Press / NY: Paulist Press, 1978, p.65 (a joint Catholic-Protestant effort) }
Mary was formally separated from Protestant worship and prayer in the 16th century; in the 20th century the divorce is complete. . . .
[But] Calvin, like Luther and Zwingli, taught the perpetual virginity of Mary. The early Reformers even applied, though with some reticence, the title Theotokos to Mary . . . Calvin called on his followers to venerate and praise her as the teacher who instructs them in her Son's commands.
{J.A. Ross MacKenzie (Protestant), in Stacpoole, Alberic, ed., Mary's Place in Christian Dialogue, Wilton, Conn.: Morehouse-Barlow, 1982, pp.35-6}
Martin Luther on Mary's Perpetual Virginity
Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that.
{Luther's Works, eds. Jaroslav Pelikan (vols. 1-30) & Helmut T. Lehmann (vols. 31-55), St. Louis: Concordia Pub. House (vols. 1-30); Philadelphia: Fortress Press (vols. 31-55), 1955, v.22:23 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539) }
Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that 'brothers' really mean 'cousins' here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers.
{Pelikan, ibid., v.22:214-15 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539) }
A new lie about me is being circulated. I am supposed to have preached and written that Mary, the mother of God, was not a virgin either before or after the birth of Christ . . .
{Pelikan, ibid.,v.45:199 / That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523) }
Scripture does not say or indicate that she later lost her virginity . . .
When Matthew [1:25] says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her . . . This babble . . . is without justification . . . he has neither noticed nor paid any attention to either Scripture or the common idiom.
{Pelikan, ibid.,v.45:206,212-3 / That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523) }
Editor Jaroslav Pelikan (Lutheran) adds:
Luther . . . does not even consider the possibility that Mary might have had other children than Jesus. This is consistent with his lifelong acceptance of the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary.
{Pelikan, ibid.,v.22:214-5}
John Calvin on Mary's Perpetual Virginity
Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ's 'brothers' are sometimes mentioned.
{Harmony of Matthew, Mark & Luke, sec. 39 (Geneva, 1562), vol. 2 / From Calvin's Commentaries, tr. William Pringle, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55}
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called 'first-born'; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation.
{Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107}
Under the word 'brethren' the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity.
{Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, (7:3) }
Huldreich Zwingli
He turns, in September 1522, to a lyrical defense of the perpetual virginity of the mother of Christ . . . To deny that Mary remained 'inviolata' before, during and after the birth of her Son, was to doubt the omnipotence of God . . . and it was right and profitable to repeat the angelic greeting - not prayer - 'Hail Mary' . . . God esteemed Mary above all creatures, including the saints and angels - it was her purity, innocence and invincible faith that mankind must follow. Prayer, however, must be . . . to God alone . . .
'Fidei expositio,' the last pamphlet from his pen . . . There is a special insistence upon the perpetual virginity of Mary.
{G. R. Potter, Zwingli, London: Cambridge Univ. Press, 1976, pp.88-9,395 / The Perpetual Virginity of Mary . . ., Sep. 17, 1522}
Zwingli had printed in 1524 a sermon on 'Mary, ever virgin, mother of God.'
{Thurian, ibid., p.76}
I have never thought, still less taught, or declared publicly, anything concerning the subject of the ever Virgin Mary, Mother of our salvation, which could be considered dishonourable, impious, unworthy or evil . . . I believe with all my heart according to the word of holy gospel that this pure virgin bore for us the Son of God and that she remained, in the birth and after it, a pure and unsullied virgin, for eternity.
{Thurian, ibid., p.76 / same sermon}
John Wesley (Founder of Methodism)
The Blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as when she brought him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin.
{"Letter to a Roman Catholic" / In This Rock, Nov. 1990, p.25}
Evangelicals claim to be Reformation Christians, but even the leaders of the Reformation don't share many of the views modern day Evangelicals do.
Savvy
Amen Mariel. I, also, was brought up pre-trib, and pray to be delivered from the time of trial. Thank you.
Savvy,
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was first introduced by a heretic, a man
whose teachings were officially declared to be contrary to Church doctrine. For centuries this
doctrine was unanimously rejected by popes, Fathers and theologians of the Catholic Church.
Silvia
I see baptism as a proclomation of faith that is required of us all. It is symbolic of the death and resurrection. Down with the old man, up with the new. Baptism in itself would be meaningless without belief in the living Messiah.
...................................
JD, This is where Catholics disagree, for example the early christians saw "born again" implying Water Baptism, and not symbolic. For example Catholic saraments require valid matter and form.
Now Protestants will argue that as long as the person has faith, the element does not count. We see this as an anti-matter attitude.
Anti-matter has been at the root of every heresy, because matter is the heart of the incarnation. The word became flesh.
I am not an expert on this subject, but a good book to check out is "Matter matters by David P.Lang. It's on the sacraments.
Catholics believe that when the Archangel Gabriel said "Hail Mary, full of grace" (Lk 1:28), he was saying a lot more than "Hey Mary, how ya doin', you're cool". Catholics believe Gabriel was saying something about the nature of Mary, that Christians would recognize until the end of time. The Greek words Gabriel used were "Chaire, kecharitomene!". [Caire, kecaritomene!]. So let's check out the grammar of it. John Pacheco says the following:
"kecharitomene".. is a perfect passive participle. It means one endowed with favour or grace in a "permanent or perfect" fashion. According to Greek grammatical lexicons, the perfect stem of a Greek verb means the 'perpetuation of a permanent result or completed action'.
Catholics believe Gabriel chose his words carefully. His greeting to Mary was very different from his greeting to Zachariah whom he called by name. Catholics believe Mary was called by her title.
I am greatfull that you would share your particular belief with me, and that we are able to converse about such with love and understanding. I wish there was more of this here!
-----------------------------------
Thank You, J.D. I agree too:)
Savvy
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was first introduced by a heretic, a man
whose teachings were officially declared to be contrary to Church doctrine. For centuries this
doctrine was unanimously rejected by popes, Fathers and theologians of the Catholic Church.
-----------------------------------
Silvia, I have never heard of such a notion. Who was this heretic and in what year did he introduce this doctrine?
Savvy
Dear Savvy,
Define the meaning of "valid matter and form" regarding the Communion, if you will please.
By His Grace,
-SV
To Savvy (4:23 PM):
Yes, the Archangel Gabriel said to Mary:
"Hail, Mary full of grace,
the Lord is with thee,
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed in the fruit of thy womb."
Correction:
That's "blessed IS the fruit of thy womb"
Savvy
"Cardinal de Turrecremata, a famous theologian, having
been appointed by the Council of Basle to investigate the
history of the immaculate conception, made report as follows :
" Behold, O Sacred Synod, 100 witnesses, who, being most profound
Doctors in Divine and Canon Law, or very learned Fathers, give a most
clear testimony . . . that the most blessed Virgin was in her concep-
tion subject to original sin." Pusey, Letter I to Dr. Newman, p. 72.
TESTIMONY OF THE POPES.
Of the 14 Popes who are said to have pronounced
against the immaculate conception of the Blessed Virgin, I
quote the following from Dr. Pusey :
Pope Leo I. Serm. 5 de Nat. Dom. C. 5, p. 86. "Alone then among
the sons of men the Lord Jesus was born innocent, because He alone
was born without the pollution of carnal concupiscence."
108 LEO XIII AT THE BAR OF HISTORY.
Pope Gelasius, against Pelagius, says: "No one is clean from defile-
ment." p. 130.
Gregory the Gh'eat: "He alone was born truly holy who . . . was
not conceived by the commixture of carnal intercourse." p. 142.
Pope Innocent III says: "Mary was produced in sin, but she
brought forth without sin." Serm. 2 "De Festo Assump. Mariae,"
Colon., 1552 (quoted by Archdeacon Sinclair).
In the light of these passages it is impossible to avoid
the dilemma of rejecting either the creed of Pius IV
(which binds every Catholic never to take or interpret the
Scriptures " otherwise than according to the unanimous
consent of the Fathers " ) or the doctrine of the Immacu-
late Conception of the Blessed Yirgin.
With Pope Leo, Pope Gelasius, Pope Gregory the
Great, and Pope Innocent III denying this doctrine, and
Pope Pius IX affirming and denning it as an article of
faith it must be hard for the adherent of the doctrine of
Papal Infallibility to know what to believe. When Infalli-
bility is arrayed against Infallibility, who shall be the
arbiter ?
It may be interesting to compare the opinion recently
expressed by some of the highest representatives of the
Greek Church upon this subject, in their reply to the En-
cyclical of Pope Leo XIII on Reunion. Art. "XTTI of that
document (already quoted) reads as follows :
" The one Holy Catholic and Apostolical Church of the Seven
CEoumenical Councils has laid down the dogma of the supernatural,
pure and immaculate incarnation of the only begotten Son and Word
of God alone, by the Holy Ghost and through the Virgin Mary. But
the papal church has again introduced an innovation, scarcely forty years ago, having propounded the novel dogma of the immaculate
conception of the Theotokos and ever-virgin Mary a dogma entirely
unknown to the Ancient Church, and strenuously combated, in for-
mer times, by the most eminent of papal theologians."
continued:
http://tinyurl.com/c2aw2o
Silvia
SV,
Every sacrament has matter and form. The matter is used to perform the rite, e.g., water in Baptism, chrism in Confirmation, bread and wine in Holy Eucharist, or the penitent’s valid confession in Penance. The form is what the priest does with the matter to invoke the sacrament, e.g., Eucharistic Prayer over the bread and wine or prayer of absolution in Penance.
http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/sacrament.htm
The Catholic view is that the material elements of bread and wine are offered to God in Holy Communion and God changes the bread and wine into the very body and blood of Jesus Christ our Lord. This is indeed a mystery of God but the point is that we partake of God through matter that God has called tov meod (very good).
To lend support to this, we must recognize that Christ, during his earthly life used matter to communicate the spiritual. Consider the woman who touched the hem of his garment, the blind man who was healed through spit, and the laying on of hands. Another man who was blind was cured through spit mixed with dirt, and then only after he washed his eyes with water could he see. He healed lepers by touching them. He raised Jairus’ daughter from the dead by taking her hand and speaking to her. We even see the disciples doing similar things. Jesus sends them out two-by-two and they cast out demons and heal the sick through anointing with oil.
Savvy
Silvia,
This is an argument people ignorant about the writings of the early church often put foward.
This belief was a part of the early Church and has always been held as a pious belief by the faithful. We didn't just pull this stuff out of thin air. In fact Martin Luther, the father of the reform spoke about it 300 years before it became Dogma. The early CHurch father were talking about a millennium before that. Here is what some the greatest Christians were saying over 1600 years ago.
The Early Church Fathers believed that Mary was full of grace and thus sinless.
Justin Martyr
[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course that was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied, "Be it done unto me according to your word"
(Luke 1:38) (Dialogue with Trypho 100 [A.D. 155]).
Irenaeus
Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, "Behold, 0 Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word." Eve . . . who was then still a virgin although she had Adam for a husband — for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed; for, having been created only a short time, they had no understanding of the procreation of children . . . having become disobedient [sin], was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient [no sin], was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve's disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith (Against Heresies 3:22:24 [A.D. 189]).
It becomes you to be mindful of us, as you stand near Him who granted you all graces, for you are the Mother of God and our Queen. Help us for the sake of the King, the Lord God Master Who was born of you. For this reason you are called 'full of Grace'..." (373 A.D., St. Athanasius)
Blessed Virgin, immaculate and pure you are the sinless Mother of your Son, the mighty Lord of the universe. You are holy and inviolate, the hope of the hopeless and sinful; we sing your praises. We praise you as full of every grace, for you bore the God-Man. We all venerate you; we invoke you and implore your aid...Holy and immaculate Virgin...be our intercessor and advocate at the hour of death and judgment...you are holy in the sight of God, to Whom be honor and glory, majesty, and power forever (373 A.D., St. Ephrem of Edessa)
You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than the others; for here is no blemish in you, nor any stains upon your Mother. (St. Ephraim, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8, 370)
Savvy
Hi JD,
I hope you find this information on a possible ODESSA / New Age link helpful.
Specifically, one of the connections of ODESSA to the New Age Movement might very likely be through Savitri Devi who has also been dubbed "Hitler's Priestess."
Check out what I also posted on the first page of this thread about Savitri Devi.
Constance and Dorothy know a great deal about Savitri Devi and Dorothy once even mailed Constance a book by Devi.
Savitri Devi knew Otto Skorzeny who established one of the ratlines that formed the basis for what came to be known as ODESSA
Savitri Devi became friends with Hans-Ulrich Rudel, and completed her manuscript of The Lightning and the Sun at his home in March of 1956. Through his introductions she was able to meet a number of German émigrés in Spain and the Middle East. In 1957 she stayed with Johannes von Leers in Egypt. In 1961 she stayed with Otto Skorzeny in Madrid.
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Savitri_Devi
This is where it gets particularly interesting:
In August 1962, Savitri Devi attended the international National Socialist conference in Gloucestershire and was a founder-signatory of the Cotswold Agreement that established the World Union of National Socialists (WUNS). At this conference she met, and was greatly impressed with George Lincoln Rockwell.
When Rockwell became leader of WUNS, he appointed William Luther Pierce editor of its new ideological journal: National Socialist World (1966-68). Along with articles by Jordan and Rockwell, Pierce devoted nearly eighty pages of the first issue to a condensed edition of The Lightning and the Sun ( by Devi).
Because of the enthusiastic response, Pierce included chapters from Gold in the Furnace (also by Devi) and Defiance in subsequent issues.
After retiring from teaching in 1970, Savitri Devi spent nine months at the Normandy home of close friend Françoise Dior while working on her memoirs. Concluding that her pension would go much further in India, she flew from Paris to Bombay on June 23, 1971. In August she moved to New Delhi, where she lived alone, with a number of cats and at least one cobra. Her husband continued to live in Calcutta, visiting Devi from time to time. During his final illness, he moved in with her and fasted until he died, on March 21, 1977. ( Endura? )
Savitri Devi continued correspondence with National Socialist activists in Europe, the Americas and Jordan: John Tyndall, Matt Koehl, Miguel Serrano, and Ernst Zündel. She was the first to claim to Zündel that the Holocaust was untrue; he proposed a series of taped interviews (conducted in November of 1978) and published a new illustrated edition of The Lightning and the Sun in 1979.
Death
She died in 1982 in Sible Hedingham, Essex, England at her friend Muriel Gantry's house; the cause of death was recorded as myocardial infarction and coronary thrombosis. She was en route to lecture in America at the invitation of Matt Koehl at the time.
Her ashes were sent to the National Socialist White People's Party shrine in Arlington, Virginia where they were placed next to those of George Lincoln Rockwell.
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Savitri_Devi
Savitri Devi was influenced by writers and thinkers like Julius Evola and Oswald Spengler, and in turn she influenced the Chilean diplomat Miguel Serrano. Among her ideas was the classification of “men above time”, “men in time”, “men against time”.
In 1982, Francisco Freda published a German translation of Gold in the Furnace; the fourth volume of his annual review, Risguardo (1980-), was devoted to Savitri Devi as the "missionary of Aryan Paganism".
Revilo P. Oliver wrote that he saw the potentiality of a future religion venerating Adolf Hitler "in the works of a highly intelligent and learned lady of Greek ancestry, Dr. Savitri Devi."
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Savitri_Devi
Now check out Miguel Serrano. He was from Chile. It is to be recalled that South America was one of the destinations of Nazis processed through the "Ratline." (a.k.a. ODESSA) Ironically Serrano just died a few days ago. Serrano's "esoteric Hitlerism" may be connected in some way to the Mayan Calendar, the year 2012 and the Atlantis myth.
MIGUEL SERRANO
Miguel Serrano (born September 10, 1917; died February 28, 2009) is a retired Chilean diplomat, explorer and author of poetry, books on spiritual questing and esoteric Hitlerism. Serrano's extraordinarily forceful and anti-modernist neo-Gnostic philosophy elucidates the otherworldly origin of the Hyperborean-descended Aryans, image-bearers of the godhead, and a global conspiracy against them by an evil inferior godlet, the Demiurge, worshipped by the Jews, lord of planet Earth, spawner of the primitive hominid stocks and all base materiality. He synthesizes the Hindu-Vedic and Nordic traditions, both of which he regards as of ancient Aryan-Hyperborean provenance. Serrano is especially indebted to the Jungian theory of collective racial archetypes and follows Savitri Devi in recognizing Adolf Hitler as an avatar who battled against the demonic materialistic hosts of the Kali Yuga.
Born Miguel Joaquín Diego del Carmen Serrano Fernández in Santiago de Chile. Educated at the Internado Nacional Barros Arana from 1929 to 1934. Originally embracing Marxism and writing for left-wing journals, he became quickly disillusioned with Communism and was drawn to the Movimiento Nacional Socialista de Chile (M.N.S.), a Chilean Nazi Party (headed by Jorge González von Mareés). In July of 1939 he publicly associated himself with the M.N.S. (then renamed Vanguardia Popular Socialista-Popular Socialist Front), writing for its journal Trabajo ("Work").
After the German invasion of the Soviet Union, in July of 1941, Serrano began his own biweekly political and literary review called La Nueva Edad ("The New Age"). Originally ambivalent about anti-Semitism, Serrano discovered and began to publish material from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in early November 1941. Later Serrano would transmute the Jewish world conspiracy into a metaphysical one by identifying Yahweh, in the tradition of the Gnostic Cathars, as the evil principle in itself, the Demiurge, lord of shadows and ruler over our fallen planet.
In late 1941, Serrano was introduced to a Chilean esoteric order owing allegiance to a mysterious and far-flung Brahmin elite centered in the Himalayas. This mystico-martial order practiced ritual magic, tantric and kundalini yoga linked to Nietzschean concepts of the will to power and fascist activism. He was initiated into the order in February 1942. Cult members regarded Adolf Hitler as a savior of the Indo-European or Aryan race. The order considered astral travel and higher states of awareness as the natural ancestral heritage of all pure-blooded ("twice-born") Aryans. The order's master, "F.K." (a German immigrant to Chile), described Hitler as an initiate, a being of boundless and unprecendented willpower (shudibudishvabhaba), a boddhisatva who had voluntarily incarnated on earth in order to overcome the Kali Yuga; he claimed to have been in astral contact with Hitler. ...read more....
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Serrano
ESOTERIC HITLERISM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_Hitlerism
Savitri Devi was acquainted with American Nazis George Lincoln Rockwell and William Luther Pierce.
GEORGE LINCOLN ROCKWELL
http://tinyurl.com/dyf2f4
Again, I hope you find these links helpful.
A little humor -
you know that Doug, the not famous, and often dimwhitted theologan said Jesus Christ died for all of us - and wants us to play nice - as the Holy Spirit said through John "little children" play nice - yes - I added the play nice - He called us little children -
DouginMI
Savvy,
I think the point is being made; there were popes denying the doctrine of the immaculate conception.
When infallibility is arrayed against infallibility, who shall be the arbiter?
Silvia
Susanna,
The Webmistress who runs the website on Savitri Devi, lives in the U.S. The site says
"Gabriella, who thinks of Savitri Devi as her role model, is a student of Aryan history, philosophy, and Pagan religion. She also has her own personal website"@ http://www.vaidilute.com
Savvy
From www.worldnetdaily.com 3/10/09:
Intelligence pick wants national ID urges creation of federal system
'so we can better know who is who'
--WND
Saavy,
This is where I disagree with even some protestants. Water baptism in itself is very important, however this is simply the first proclomation required to be born again. What made this proclomation important was that Jesus Himself was baptized by John. It from that point became a symbol for the acceptence of salvation. However water baptism alone does not wash away sin, nor does it mean one is born again.
John 3 covers this, in Jesus conversation with Nicodemus. Jesus Himself says water baptism is important, however He also states in order to be born again one must be born of the Spirit. These are two seperate things required for salvation. One a physical proclomation of faith, the second a spiritual rebirth.
We disagree on Mary, as I don't see Gabriel's words in Luke as reffering to her by a title. I see it as Gabriel telling Mary she had been chosen by the Father to bear the Messiah.
Susanna,
Thank you for the ODESSA info. I will comment more once I have read through all the material.
Dear Savvy,
Thanks for the explanation. I don't quite understand how there is Biblical justification for the Body and Wine becoming the literal matter of Christ (He sacrificed once, the Bible makes that clear; therefore Communion is a rememberance of His one and only sufficient blood sacrifice) and following the point you made earlier re:"anti-matter has been at the root of every heresy", am I then to understand that you believe that Protestants are heretics or just "deceived"?
By His Grace,
-SV
Silvia,
How many of these declarations were spoken ex-Cathedra?
The Immaculate Conception was defined as a pious belief in 1453 and declared a doctrine by Pope Pius in 1854. It is made Dogma after many centuries of careful considerations. For instance the Trinity took 300 years to turn into Dogma. The New Testament itself took 400 years. We Catholics are not in a rush to cement doctrine. We take our time.
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was officially defined by Pope Pius IX in 1854. When Fundamentalists claim that the doctrine was "invented" at this time, they misunderstand both the history of dogmas and what prompts the Church to issue, from time to time, definitive pronouncements regarding faith or morals. They are under the impression that no doctrine is believed until the pope or an ecumenical council issues a formal statement about it.
Actually, doctrines are defined formally only when there is a controversy that needs to be cleared up or when the magisterium (the Church in its office as teacher; cf. Matt. 28:18–20; 1 Tim. 3:15, 4:11) thinks the faithful can be helped by particular emphasis being drawn to some already-existing belief.
Savvy
JD,
You are more than welcome. I will look forward to finding out from you if you found it helpful.
Devi was also a great admirer of Rene Guenon and Julius Evola who were "right wing" precursors of the New Age Movement, but I just sent you material that felt was most relevant to ODESSA.
JD,
From the documents of the Early Church fathers (the ones who decided what books should be in the Bible)
Justin Martyr
Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father... and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, "Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
Irenaeus
He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).
Tertullian
[N]o one can attain salvation without baptism, especially in view of the declaration of the Lord, who says, "Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life" (On Baptism 12:1 [A.D. 203]).
When we are about to enter the water — no, just a little before — In the church and under the hand of the bishop, we solemnly profess that we renounce the devil and his pomps and his angels. Thereupon we are immersed three times (The Crown 3:2 [A.D. 211]).
How come contemporary Protestants threw out so much doctrine within the last 100 Years.? For example even Luther, Calvin, and early reformers did not deny the immaculate conception etc.
William Donohoe (President of the Catholic League for Religous and Civil Rights in the U.S.) speaks out on Ron Howard . . .
Why does Ron Howard persist in anti-Catholic lies?
Had it not been for the Catholic Church, Europe's universities would have died in the Middle Ages and the Scientific Revolution would not have been born. Why persist in lying about a supposed suppression of reason by the church?
The tag team of Dan Brown and Ron Howard would have the public believe that Galileo was a member of a secret society, the Illuminati, and that the group seeks revenge against the Vatican today because of the Catholic Church’s anti-science history. All of which is nonsense.
Galileo died almost 150 years before the Illuminati were founded on May 1, 1776. Yet Brown’s book says the secret society was founded in the 1500s, and the movie says the same. Even though Brown’s own website admits that the group was founded in 1776, he explicitly says that ‘It is a historical fact that the Illuminati vowed vengeance against the Vatican in the 1600s.’ Howard, for his part, has said in an interview that the Illuminati ‘were formed in the 1600s.'
So why do they lie? Because their goal is to paint the Catholic Church as the enemy of science, and what better poster boy to trot out than their favorite martyr, Galileo? The ultimate victim, Galileo’s alleged persecution is cited as proof of the Church’s war on reason.
Had it not been for the Catholic Church, the universities would have died during the Middle Ages. Had it not been for the Catholic Church, the Scientific Revolution would never have happened. After all, science did not take root in South America, Africa, the Middle East or Asia. In took place in Christian Europe.
Galileo was never imprisoned or tortured. His confinement to house arrest, though unwarranted, was more a function of his arrogance than his ideas: he persisted in presenting his ideas (taken from Copernicus, a Catholic scientist who was never punished) as scientifically accurate, something which scientists of his day scoffed at.
Why do Brown-Howard persist in their demonization of Catholicism?
Savvy,
The doctrine of the Assumption of Mary was officially declared to be a dogma of the Roman Catholic faith on November 1, 1950. This means that every Roman Catholic is required to believe this doctrine without questioning it. However, as we will see, the teaching of the Assumption of Mary originated with heretical writings which were officially condemned by the early Church.
In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree which rejected this teaching as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. Here we have "infallible" popes declaring a doctrine to be a heresy. Then on November 1, 1950, we have Pope Pius XII (another "infallible" pope) declaring the same doctrine to be official Roman Catholic doctrine, which all Catholics are required to believe. [Note 3]
So before November 1, 1950, any Catholic who believed in the Assumption of Mary was a heretic (because of "infallible" declarations of popes). But after November 1, 1950, any Catholic who failed to believe in the Assumption of Mary was a heretic (because of the "infallible" declaration of Pope Pius XII).
William Webster, "The Church of Rome at the Bar of History," pages 81-85.
Silvia
I don't quite understand how there is Biblical justification for the Body and Wine becoming the literal matter of Christ
...................................
Jesus clearly spells it out "Very truly unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." (Jn 6:53) Many followers left him saying "who can follow this teaching." Christ let them leave. He did not say "Hey, you have it all wrong, come back, it's just a metaphor - a symbol- it's not really my flesh" (2)
This was Jesus' response to them saying "This teaching is difficult, who can accept it."
...................................
Is the Eucharist a re-sacrifice of Jesus?
No its not. He died once for our sins and his presence remains forever. In Catholic terms we say it is a "Sacramental Expression of a Paschal Mystery." (Paschal means "having to do with the Passover".)
When Evangelicals say "I am washed in the blood of Jesus" (which I love) are they re-sacrificing Jesus who died 2000 years ago? No, they are experiencing the perpetual nature of his sacrifice for our sins.
Breaking of bread happened every time apostles met. It appears to be a very sacred thing they did together rather than just some fellowship. (Acts 2:42, 1 Cor 11:20-21).
"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself." (1 Cor 11:27-29)
Why would such harsh words be used for something just symbolic?
and following the point you made earlier re:"anti-matter has been at the root of every heresy", am I then to understand that you believe that Protestants are heretics or just "deceived"?
...................................
This is what I think. Protestants are more easily susceptible to accepting Gnostic heresies than Catholics are. I am not saying Catholics are not, but it's just a lot easier for Protestants.
Phillip. Lee, a Presbyterian makes this case in his book "against the Protestant Gnostics"
"A clear place that reveals the Gnostic tendency of Protestant Christianity is in the Protestant view of Holy Communion or the Lord’s Supper. The Protestant view usually denies that Jesus Christ is present in the bread and wine of Holy Communion. One view is that Holy Communion is merely a remembering of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. According to this view, knowledge of Jesus is what is important and so what the believer receives in the Holy Communion is simply a remembering knowledge (gnosis) of Jesus. One wonders why we need bread and wine to remember Jesus… could not someone just read their Bible?
Another Protestant view is that the believer partakes of the body of Jesus Christ but only in a spiritual manner. This view denies that the bread and the wine become the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ. These views in practice assert the spiritual over the material just like the early Gnostics."
This is just one example among many he gives. I don't know if he's right, but it something worth thinking about.
Protestant Reformers did not deny the Catholic view by the way.
Martin Luther, the founder of the reform believed in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. In 1529, he engaged the question of transubstantiation in the famous conference at Marburg with Zwingli and other Swiss theologians; he maintained his view that Christ is present in the bread and wine of the Eucharist.
Savvy
Dear Savvy,
Appreciate you sharing your interpretation of the Communion.
I reject gnosticism. I'm sorry that you believe that I'm deceived. I worship the Lord with Biblical integrity and true conviction of the Holy Spirit.
Of course, I grew up in a Reformed Theological Church, graduated from a Reformed Theological High School, and graduated from a Reformed Theological Seminary. Father was a Reformed Theological Minister.
Guess that puts me with the "foolish as they come" crowd. :-)
"But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God- and righteousness and sanctification and redemption- that as it is written, 'He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.' " -I Cor. 1:27-31
Soli Deo Gloria,
-SV
Wow no wonder many people are joinging the new age. (they are peaceful and get along)
If this was my only example of Christianity I would not want to be part of it. It comes accross very hateful and arrogant.
Fight fight fight.
One less follower of this blog.
Silvia, the Assumption is a different thing from the Immaculate Conception. Here's the document declaring the Immaculate Conception doctrine.
http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_pi09id.htm
You have not clarified what you mean by Infallible?
Savvy
Not that anyone asked, but I think one can learn about the state of the church and theology by reading the early church writings, but I cannot accept their writingsp- and theology- as authoritative, not when I read about the pheonix bird in one of the letters (I don't remember which, and I cannot find where I have the book packed) as if the pheonix were a real live bird. I know it might be a common mistake of belief back then, that it actually existed, but then what other common beliefs that existed then were incorrect?
Appreciate you sharing your interpretation of the Communion.
I reject gnosticism. I'm sorry that you believe that I'm deceived.
...................................
SV, I don't think you are deceived or Gnostic. I am just learning a lot along the way, about the history of different movements. I am sorry if this has offended you.
Catholics don't send Protestants to hell, unlike Protestants who are always telling Catholics they are going to hell or call us the Whore of Babylon.
Savvy
Anonymous said...
Wow no wonder many people are joinging the new age. (they are peaceful and get along)
7:26 PM said...
If this was my only example of Christianity I would not want to be part of it. It comes accross very hateful and arrogant.
Fight fight fight.
One less follower of this blog.
I am so grieved by the awful witness that is being held up as "followers of Christ" on this blog at this time. I am sure that Constance is also greived.... but not nearly as much as our God and His Son Jesus Christ is. HIS way is narrow.... and few are they that find the narrow way that Christ walked. It is a humble walk of laying down our selfish conceit and taking up the way that in part....involves a walk of compassion that can hold a good arguement while holding fast to what he believes about the truth while still being open to listening to others with patience and kindness. Consider Christ and learn of Him and most importantly...consider... "Why did Christ give up His life on the Cross?" Forget the bickering of small men.... and ask, seek, the reason why Christ died.... and ROSE AGAIN! Then.... when you find the answer...find the answer to capture your heart in a place of worship, awe and love for your Father in heaven who ceated you!!!
JC
Dear Savvy,
Just to clarify for a moment.
I wasn't being 'pithy' when I stated that I appreciated your opinions regarding the matters of discussion here. I truly do appreciate your discussion.
You are very articulate, you've expressed your points very well, and I'm grateful to understand more about Catholic Doctrine.
I'm giving you a bit of a hard time about the Reformer stuff, because I can- as I am one. :-)
But in NO way do I feel offended by your discussion.
I find it invigorating! I should be able to know and defend why I believe what I believe in the Word of God- and so should you.
So, thank you for your hearty discussion here today. I can't agree with you on some of these Doctrinal points, but I'm truly as impressed with your Biblical knowledge as I am with Susanna's. The only Catholics that I come into contact with don't read the Bible and therefore we can't discuss these things together.
I don't want to risk hijacking this blog over differences in Doctrinal matters, however, and it is also not my intent to cause grief or frustration to others who are growing weary of this thread. So I'll stop the questions at this time.
Thanks again for your willingness to elaborate on these things.
With Great Respect,
-SV
Anonymous@7:37,
What does the Phenoix Bird have to do with Theology? The Church fathers are not super-human, but their proximity to the events is very close. Many of them were taught by the Apostles themselves. Some of them did turn out to be Heretics at times and defected from the faith.
Which begs another question, if we cannot rely on the authority of those closest to the Apostles, how can we rely on our own to interpret the Bible?
Savvy
SV,
Thank You for those kind words. I appreciate your as well as JD's civility. I do agree that we shouldn't let this blog be taken over by issues that don't belong here.
In Christ
Savvy
History proves that when the Transitus teaching originated the Church regarded it as heresy....In the list of apocryphal writings which are to be rejected Gelasius signifies the following work: Liber qui apellatur Transitus, id est Assumptio Sanctae Mariae, Apocryphus....This specifically means the Transitus writing of the assumption of Mary....Pope Gelasius explicitly condemns the authors as well as their writings and the teachings which they promote and all who follow them. And significantly, this entire decree and its condemnation was reaffirmed by Pope Hormisdas in the sixth century around A.D. 520....These facts prove that the early Church viewed the assumption teaching, not as a legitimate expression of the pious belief of the faithful but as a heresy worthy of condemnation."
...................................
Silvia ,
The objection confuses the Transitus "literature" with the Assumption teaching. The mistake is suggesting the Assumption itself was ever condemned, even if some of the Transitus literature was. The doctrine of the Assumption was believed quite explicitly from the 6th and 7th century forward by noted saints and doctors of the Catholic Church, east and west: St. Gregory of Tours, St. John Damascene, St. Germanus of Constantinople, St. Andrew of Crete, Amadeus [bishop of Lausarme], St. Anthony of Padua, St. Albert the Great, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Bonaventure, St. Bernardine of Siena, St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Francis of Sales, St. Alphonsus, St. Peter Canisius, etc.
They weren't aware the belief was supposedly rejected by a Pope in the fifth century. the first Christians to dispute the Assumption were some "Asturians" from Spain in the eighth century, "the first to do so, as far as the evidence goes." (Carol Mariology, volume 1, page 153).
There is a single Transitus writing which was labeled "apocryphus" by (supposedly) "Pope Gelasius" in the late fifth century. The "Pope Gelasian Decree" or Decretum Gelasianum de Libris Recipiendis et non Recipiendis is online here:
http://www.tertullian.org/decretum_eng.htm
Read it for yourself. Is the Assumption of Mary itself anywhere condemned, rejected, or declared heretical in this writing? The answer is NO.
The Gelasian decree has nothing to do with Mariology or the Assumption. It simply concerns the list of correct canonical vs. non-canonical writings received by the Church, with various heretics condemned at the end. That's it.
Savvy
you guys need to exchange phone numbers -
Better yet create a blog! All of you go there and have you debates and share your doctrinal fighting on that site.
I am tired of the off topic issues.
anti-new-ager
Lots of Questions--
Since, for Catholics, the Immaculate Conception prayer: "Oh, Mary, conceived without sin..." refers to Mary, and not Jesus,
when did Mary's sinless conception occur? At the moment of the angel's annunciation, or somtime in the distant past before the overshadowing?
Following the obvious logic, both of her parents, and their parents, and their parents... would have to be sinless--I guess all the way back to the spreading out of the eight people from Noah's leaving the ark. Also, I would hazard a guess that if I were sinless--I would certainly know it.
I am painfully aware of when I *do* sin; so, logic would dictate that if I were the only one of two sinless creatures on the planet (prior to the birth of my Son who was both fully human and fully divine)that knowledge would be intrinsic to my existence. And, if my ancestors had also been sinless, I'm sure that that wouldn't have been kept quiet in the community.
1st John:41 (KJV) quotes Andrew as saying to Peter: "We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ." Scripture foretold that Jesus would be born of a virgin.
I don't recall a passage anywhere that says he would be born of a goddess (if you have no sin, then you've never broken the rules of a righteous, pure, and holy Being who *makes* the rules--i.e.you're god, yourself).
It simply stated that He would be born of a woman who had not had SI. Mary, herself noted this, in wonder, to the angel, i.e. "how can this be as I have not known a man?" I grant you that Mary must have been a very special young woman--may even a girl, actually. She was, no doubt, pious, gracious, thoughtful, and had the fear of the Lord. She was probably a delightful young woman who brought joy and a love of the Lord to those around her. I just can't see how she could have been "sinless." I find no Scripture passage where she stated that, herself. I would think that she was conceived as every other person on the planet was, and with original sin.
For the sake of argument, if that's not the case, did God nullify Mary's her parents' sin at the exact moment of her conception? If that's the case, then why would Jesus have to later suffer horribly and die for the sins of the world?
Since Mary was supposedly sinless, why didn't she die on the cross, herself. Since her holy condition supposedly predated her Son's state of sinlessness in human form, why was He called "the Lamb of the God who taketh away the sins of the world," and not her?
If God could decide (as of course, he can) to forgive Mary's parents/forebearers, etc. of their past sins at that instant--then why, again, the scripture: "For all our righteousness is as filthy rags"?
Again, following this logic--Jesus died for the sins of everyone in the world, except Mary. How is the scripture passage: "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" reconciled, then?
What's the explanation for the famous John 3:16 passage? I would guess that the phrase "the world" logically meant just that--not billions-upon-billions, minus one.
It is noted in the Bible that Jesus became angry (think: the moneychangers; the Scribes and Pharisees, etc.), but it also says that He never sinned. I think that that negates the argument that God would have had to have made the pre-pregnant Mary sinless.
Oldmanoftheski
I agree I am going somewhere else too.
There is almost no one left with ears that hear and eyes that see on this blog.
It is sad to see it destroyed by these posters that have hijacked it.
I have not seen the best posters here that had good information for quite a while. We are just left with the hijackers.
Oldmanoftheski,
If you go elsewhere..... you let them win! Just ignore them, scroll past and take this ground back!!
To Anonymous (9:24 PM):
Re: "I have not seen the best posters here that had good information for quite a while. We are just left with the hijackers."
___________________________________
Instead of "talking in circles" - why don't you have the courage to say what you really mean - that the "best posters" are anyone who is not a CATHOLIC!!!
tTHE WORLD'S FIRST GLOBAL DIRECTORY
"Telnic today announced that it had achieved a milestone in the delivery of a new internet service, with tens of thousands of .tel domains going 'live' today, creating the world's first global directory.
The registry operator for the new .tel domains, which provide individuals and businesses with a unique way of sharing all types of contact information with any device connected to the internet, successfully launched its new service."
"Businesses and individuals are now logging into their own .tel domains, enabling them to store contact information, keywords and location information, which is then published to the internet quickly and securely without needing to build a website.
Asseily adds: 'This fundamental change in the use of the internet will break open the ability for anyone to now own a domain and be found from any device.' "
Link-
http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1651647/the_worlds_first_global_directory_service_goes_live/index.html?source=r_technology
or here-
http://tiny.cc/qgOH4
By His Grace,
-SV
THANKS A LOT, JOYCE.
To Anonymous (9:59 PM)
This blog is for the purpose of discussing and exposing the New Age agenda. It is not that the matters which you and others are discussing are not important.... just not the PLACE to discuss these very important issues.
JC
To Anonymous @9:59 P.M.
Catholics on this blog did not start attacking Protestant beliefs. It was Protestants who have been doing it repeatedly, who have made it their mission in life to disprove Catholic beliefs, which has made Catholics defend themselves. I am not interested in hijacking this thread anymore than
you are.
Savvy
CANADA JOINS TRANSATLANTIC UNION
Working Along With U.S. For Free Trade Deal With EU-
"According to Canada's daily Financial Post, Canada and the EU have come to an agreement on the areas they would like to negotiate in a free trade deal that Canadian government officials believe could expand Canada's economy by approximately $12 billion.
The agreement announced last Thursday concluded "scoping exercises" between Canada and the EU that began Oct. 17. The exercises determined 14 areas to be placed on the negotiating table, including trade in goods and services, investment, trade facilitation, customs regulation, technical barriers to trade, competition policy and sustainable development..."
Full Article-
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=91366
or here-
http://tiny.cc/iiyKs
By His Grace,
-SV
Savvy,
I am sure that there would be a more appropriate place to discuss this. Do do have any suggestions as to where that may be. Do you think that you could set up a "room" for those interested to meet you there?
To Silvia:
As much Protestant as Catholic mysticism to go around:
1. William Law
2. Jacob Boehme
3. Richard Foster
4. "Emergent Christianity"
Both worlds, termites from within, wrecking balls from without. Don't forget, either, what a bad demon self-righteousness can be.
Constance
Old Man of the Sea,
I agree if you leave, you let the enenmy have his way. The enemy doesn't need the types of persuasion you referring to, to stir discord. The best thing the enemy can do is to stir us up over things that don't matter. I see it happen over and over again. Folks get locked into a particular mindset and think it is important that all know. I personally skim over the posts that seem to be about theological arguements. There are other forums and other blogs for other discussion. Deception abounds in all parts of the body of Yeshua the Messiah. There are some here who do not yet believe in YEshua as messiah, and I pray that they do. There is no amount of persuading we can do that will convince anyone else. It is a sad thing that others who share and research such matters, start backing off because of the content of commentators. The question is, I ask each of you are you looking to prove your own "rightness" or are you seeking to surrender to Yeshua the Messiah? What is more important, a particular understanding of Yahweh, or true surrender to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?
Do you not know and are you not aware that the enemy is pushing a false peace of religious tolerance that will lead to new spirituality with the antichrist at the center? Are you not disturbed by the information from this particular article? What are you leaning on? We each need to WAKE UP and examine ourselves before God, because the times are ever getting closer and is yet before us soon. In this time, leading to the final stage, more and more seperation will occur.
Anonymous @ 9:06 p.m.
Check out these links, they discuss these questions about Mary, in depth.
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/mary_conceived_without_sin_immaculate_conception.htm
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/mary_qa.html#tradition-II
Savvy
To JC (10:08 PM)
"To Anonymous (9:59 PM)
This blog is for the purpose of discussing and exposing the New Age agenda. It is not that the matters which you and others are discussing are not important.... just not the PLACE to discuss these very important issues."
__________________________________
But, no one has told that to Joyce who has FAILED to get that message and has continued to spread her DISINORMATION all over this blog since last April of 2008!!!
So, if you're going to tell the Catholics off . . . you need to also tell Joyce off . . . or you all are a bunch of hypocrites!!!
Dear Mariel:
THANK YOU!!!
CONSTANCE
Dear OMOTS (Old Man of the Ski):
It certainly won't be as interesting with you gone -- hope you will stick around for as long as we still have this forum available.
Constance
Dear Bella:
I don't know if you tried to reach me or not, I am behind on my reading and email, but could you be available to talk about THE GRID Thursday night?
Thanks!
Constance
Hey, I don't mean to stir the pot here, but you all have to admit that "the best posters" are Susanna and Savvy.
They are each brilliant scholars and resesarchers. Until they joined this blog, you didn't have any one here who was even close to being in their league or their class.
"To Anonymous (9:24 PM):
Re: "I have not seen the best posters here that had good information for quite a while. We are just left with the hijackers."
___________________________________
Instead of "talking in circles" - why don't you have the courage to say what you really mean - that the "best posters" are anyone who is not a CATHOLIC!!!"
-----------------------------
Wow.....
This is very sad. That is not what I meant. I am tired of the Catholic bashing and the fact that the poor Catholics have to defend themselves.
But now that you have gotten nasty, I am not going to support you side either.
You all have become darkened and full of hate and deserve each other. Both Catholic and non Catholics.
Boy this post that came in response to mine proves to me how lost this blog has gotten.
I have been one of the defenders of the Catholics! But not after this last post. I think all disscussion on this Catholic matter needs to end. It is full of hate and venom. This is not of Christ on either side.
You all have gone nuts and none of you have the Spirit of Christ(Charity) which is the principal fruit of the Holy Spirit
(There were some posters that spoke kindly to each other.)
Constance please save your blog.
Dear Bella,
I just now read your long and thoughtful post -- I am still catching up with my reading and this time was reading from the top down rather than "last first" which I also do sometimes.
Constance
To the last poster,
I agree, the sniping must end.
THANK YOU and THANK MARIEL for bringing this perspective to our site.
Constance
To Old Man of the Ski:
Benjamin Creme and company say that only those OVER 14 will hear the diabolical inward message. If the technology were the causative factor, why would "over 14" be a factor?
They may be "good", but they're not THAT good!
Constance
Dear SV,
THANK YOU for the excellent catch on Canada and the EU Free Trade agreement.
Constance
To Anonymous (10:43 PM):
WOW yourself.
If one angry post can turn you against ALL Catholics, then you are a complete MORON.
As if we didn't have plenty to be angry about for nearly a year now.
You just were taken back at being called out on the fact that your 9:24 PM post was VERY transparent!!!
Who ELSE would you be calling "hijackers" (plural) -- except the Catholics -- rather than just one hijacker (singular), who any one with a brain KNOWS is Joyce.
Just tonight, I saw an IBM commercial relating the GRID info. Just a short intro... probably getting people aquainted and familiar with the idea.
Constance, are you going with the new converter for your TV? Do you believe we have a responsibility not to knowing the potential risk? What about others here? Are the same risks involved for our commputers?
Constance:
You have to accept at least some responsibiity for "creating a monster" in Joyce.
Constance
I have not wanted to say anything but I feel it is necessary now.
I have been seeing tons of infighting on different wonderful blogs that I frequent. I don't know if it is the stress everyone is under or if the devil is inspiring it or it is the SSSS or all of the above. We will lose good participates and contributors on blogs like this if this intensity continues. There is a point where things can become no longer edifying but brings in the wrong spirit.
I will admit, the reason I have posted far less recently is directly because of the infighting. I know of others also that have lessened their posting for the same reason.
It is hard to find posts that have good data because they are lost in the middle of a long fighting thread. It gets overwhelming. It feels impossible to make any contribution that makes a difference for it becomes buried and lost.
We are falling for the baiting that the new age does. They try to turn all opposed to the NAM and NWO against each other. Divide and conquer.
We don’t need to hash over any one church’s doctrines piece by piece on this blog. It bears no good fruit here. There are really major issues that we can all agree on that are not getting addressed because of the bickering. We need to focus on working against our common enemy. The devil just smiles when he sees this kind of infighting, for we are using our energies against each other instead of him. We need to talk about what the real enemy is doing.
Can we focus on the New Age and their real agendas?
If someone has a favorite topic I suggest they start their own blog on it. Come here post a short subject line and we can go to their blog and read more. I have mine I don’t post all of it here. Posting line after line of info fighting back and forth does not accomplish anything. It does not contribute anything useful to this blog. It is destroying the blog.
I don’t want to see people give up like Oldmanoftheski. He is a great warrior for Christ.
I have been unwillingly forced to pull back from this site. The fighting brings the wrong spirit. I want to expose the new age and their plans, but the infighting spiritually drains me. Fighting the new age does not drain me; it fills me with understanding and faith.
I don’t have an answer of how to improve it. This is your blog and I respect you and your decisions, but I wanted to express my feelings and concern.
Sorry for the long post, I am just very worried where all this is leading us too.
Rose,
These times do most certainly be most intense as far as spiritual warfare is concerned. Just this past week with the Pastor being murdered.... then the ten people being shot down randomly in Georgia. I purpose to pray as soon as I finish this message. I'm a mess apart from Christ.... and but by the grace of God...there go I.
omallyDear JD,
When reading up on the articles about The ODESSA Files, I was reading about the VRIL Society, Black Order Of The Sun, etc., as well. I came across this article which goes into the "Black Awakening" and ties alongside some of the info that I was reading about in the RAINBOW SWATSTIKA that Rudi posted recently.
Going back today and reviewing this article, a few paragraphs caught my eye correlating with what OMOTS has been pointing out.
"In order for there to be an “unveiling” of the man of lawlessness, there needs to be a removal of resistance, a “spiritual extermination” on a global scale. Upfront it will be masked, behind the scenes is the real agenda. There needs to be an extermination of any spiritual presence that would contest the manifest rule of Satan on the Earth."
"While there is an ongoing and unprecedented rise in evil, the corporate manifestation of the impending darkness will be unmistakable in rapidity, efficiency and magnitude. Decades of infiltration and reconnaissance will be followed by thousands upon thousands of cult-altered, coven-loyal entities being triggered to create the massive anarchy and chaos necessary to collapse governments and cultures for one goal: a replacement society, a new world order, governed by the Antichrist. Many believe the hour is close, that this man of sin is already present."
“Only the more I think of a people calmly developing, in regions excluded from our sign and deemed uninhabitable by our sages, powers surpassing our most disciplined modes of force, and virtues to which our life, social and political, becomes antagonistic in proportion as our civilization advances, — the more devoutly I pray that ages may yet elapse before there emerge into sunlight our inevitable destroyers…..I have thought it my duty to my fellow-men to place on record these forewarnings of The Coming Race.”
–Edward Bulwer-Lytton,
author of The Coming Race
Here's a link to the article-
http://peeringintodarkness.com/?p=1396
or here-
http://tiny.cc/aKkW0
By His Grace,
-SV
Dear Constance,
Strangely, the letters appearing before my "Dear JD", that I just posted, were the letters that I typed into the word verification slot.
Trying to figure out why it's publishing.
Very odd.
-SV
SV,
You mentioned "triggered". Would that happen to be referring to MK-Ultra, or Monarch programming?
I found this following info very interesting as they seem to be related. Constance, if you have not read this, I would encourage you to read at least the preface and the first chapter. VERY relevant to our day and age.
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/5f00.0634/5f00.0634.c.htm
I recently received a copy of Constance's "Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow" in pdf format. I came to this site to investigate her opinions and the statements by others interested in them. I am frankly saddened by the evidence in this discussion thread that many of its participants, while claiming to be Christian are wrapped up in the spirit of contention. Jesus taught that Charity is the greatest commandment. He said those who have it would find mercy in the Day of Judgment, while those who do not have it would find a closed door, regardless of how piously they asserted their faith. No one ever converted to Christianity or from one Christian branch to another because they were screamed at. If our purpose is to bring others to Christ, it can only be accomplished through gentle persuasion. If we desire to defend our own faith, the best defense is that of a humble Christ-like example. I for one have both catholic and protestant friends. I love them all and many of them on both sides are sincere followers of Christ, who have truly accepted him as Lord and Savior. Is that not the essential definition of a Christian?
Sorry
Tiny URL or the post that cut it off...
http://tinyurl.com/5g6rq
To 11:47 PM
Thank you
AMEN!!!
Anon 11:47
Thank you, well said. Welcome!
The sad fact is, we are closer every day to great tribulation. Once there, the only churches in operation will be were two or more are gathered.
No more denominational ties to cling to!!!
If we enter that time of persecution with the same zeal to maintain our testimony for Christ, as we have now to defend our denominational ties, we will enter that time with strong faith.
Soon, the buildings that house our apostate denominations, if they stand, will be homes for rats, and pigeons.
What we need to focus on now is "Christ crucified the hope of glory", and "work out our own salvation with fear, and trembling", and to "come out of Babylon"
SV,
Thanks, that is truly chilling!
Constance,
I don't post here to be entertaining. Nor do I give much credence to anything Creme has to say. He's channeling a liar, remember? I do think your take on the age of 14 as the age of spiritual "accountability" makes sense though.
We'll see.
Consider the warning we should have heeded ten years ago about SSSS technologies:
“We are on the threshold of an era in which these data processors of the human body may be manipulated or debilitated…..the body is capable not only of being deceived, manipulated, or misinformed but also shut down or destroyed--just as any other data-processing system.” -[Lieutenant Colonel Timothy L. Thomas (USA Ret.)- Analyst at the Foreign Military Studies Office, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, from his article entitled “The Mind Has No Firewall” - Parameters, US ARMY WAR COLLEGE QUARTERLY Spring 1998, pp. 84-92]
How sad that such critical information, printed in an US ARMY newsletter no less, never got the attention or public scrutiny it deserved.
When it comes to hackers or cyber attacks, we are accustomed to thinking in terms of computer hardware and software data programs. U.S. military analysts weren’t surprised when Russian forces were preceded into Georgia by a flurry of unseen cyber warriors that shut down the Georgian government. After all, our own cyber warriors did precisely the same thing to Saddam Hussein’s regime before our ground troops set foot in Iraq.
Former Russian Duma member Nikolai Kuryanovich claimed that, “In the very near future, many conflicts will not take place on the open field of battle, but rather in spaces on the Internet, fought with the aid of information soldiers…. this means that a small force of hackers is stronger than the multi-thousand force of the current armed forces.”
Did anyone bat an eye lash when just before the financial collapse began last fall it was revealed that the World Bank computer systems had been compromised by hackers for well over a year?
But the fact is SSSS technology goes far beyond the ability to disrupt enemy computers and steal information. SSSS blends computer technology with psychological manipulation, UHF, microwave and ELF transmissions and perhaps paranormal activity, all of which is directed not at our computer systems, but at human beings.
In 1998, Major I. Chernishev of the Russian army proclaimed, "It is completely clear that the state which is first to create such weapons will achieve incomparable superiority."
In 1982, Col. Wesley House, (USAF ret.), a former Pentagon Intelligence officer and one time apprentice of Sun Bear’s, told me that the Russians were far ahead of us in the field of paranormal research and psychological warfare. But Col. House assured me that “we”, (meaning the U.S.), were catching up fast. How comforting!
Had I known that Col. House’s words would come back to haunt me nearly thirty years later I might have paid more attention. But now it’s too late. The race to achieve “incomparable superiority”, at least in this world, is over. And it really doesn't matter which side won, since ultimate power doesn't discriminate, but corrupts absolutely.
Regardless of what you may believe, when you hear that still small voice inside your head, please, please, please, question the source.
Col. Thomas’ 1998 Parameters article can be found here:
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/98Spring/thomas.htm
Judy Wall’s 1999 article “MIND CONTROL WITH SILENT SOUNDS AND SUPER COMPUTERS” is also a very sobering read. She would make an excellent guest on your radio program, if you can find her.
There are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of patents for SSSS add-ons and related technologies, complete with the date and name of the inventor and a description of their purpose, listed in the US Patent office. I've seen enough, don't need or want to know anything more.
Back in the, i believe early 70s, the prestigious National Enquire had frequent articles about Russian military para normal research. But who believed the National Enquirer?
Hi SV,
Yes, Hannah Newman has a thorough
compilation of information. I was pleased to see references to Constance's groundbreaking research within Hannah's work. Sometimes the anger we feel over something disturbing we've read or heard becomes a great motivator - stirs us to action so
we warn others. :~) If I remember correctly, it was through Constance that I first heard about the The Rainbow Swastika here on this blog. It is such relevant information, ever so often one of us will post the link again. Others besides myself have re-posted the link to bring the information back in case new readers haven't seen it. Thanks for all you've contributed here.
Be blessed - Rudi
Hello everyone: This is such an important hour, and we so desperately need to keep focused on what the New Age agenda is.
After reading all the posts on Catholicism I felt led to share my own testimony. The reason being, the truth about the RCC is necessary. I'm trusting this will clear up some issues.
Grew up in the Catholic church; attended Catholics schools until graduating from H.S., with a short break in between. I lived in a boarding school with the nuns at Mt.St.Joseph's in S.F.; went to mass every day with the nuns, said 3 rosaries every day; worshiped Mary and was afraid to ever approach Jesus. Mary was suppose to approach Jesus for me. Wore a scapular and worshiped saints. My patron saint was Margaret Mary Alocoque and prayed to a painting of her my father painted. Prayed for the souls in Purgatory and offered all my sufferings for them so they would be free. Never, was taught the bible; just Matt.,Mark,Luke & John. I was lost as I could be not knowing Jesus as my Saviour. When I was about 29 God used circumstances & people to bring me to the truth, born again at a Billy Graham Crusade along with my husband. God gave me an insatiable hunger for the Word of God. I would read it all day. I was hungry for his truth. By this time my husband & I decided to visit a bible believing church and even though was sprinkled as a babies (not scriptural) we were immersed by water baptism there to follow Jesus' example. As part of my being born again as Jesus taught in John 3. I filled my garbage can with idols from when I was a Catholic of statues, rosaries, etc., etc.
In reading God's Word I discovered the fallacies the RCC taught and teaching directly against the Word of God. I'll share just a few scriptures.
But before I do, there are some things I'd like to mention that are false in the RCC. One big one is that Mary was without sin, that she is co-redemptrix, that she ascended into heaven as Jesus did, that she is Queen of Heaven.All this is man made doctrine, and was taken from the Babylonian religion. .She was a vessel called of God, just as we are called. Mary said in Luke she needed Jesus as her Saviour. Only a sinner needs a Saviour. Luke 1:46-47 (Mary speaking) v.46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, v.47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Acts 4:12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
This verse tells why it is wrong to ask Mary to be the mediator between us and Jesus and the Father. At the cross the veil was rent in two and now we have access when we pray.
Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
The other serious false teaching in the RCC is transubstantiation and the daily sacrifice of Jesus in the mass by the priest. Sacrificing Jesus over and over daily, when Jesus said "it is finished" on the cross. Hebrews speaks very clearly on this sacrifice the priest does every day.
Hebrews 10:11-12 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes (frequently) the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
v.12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; read v.13, v.14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
I John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate (one who pleads our case) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
All the years I worshiped Mary and prayed to her diligently; confessed my sins to a priest when I had access to God and could receive forgiveness for my sins without doing penance; called a mere man a priest father when the word of God says not to do this in Matthew 23:9. Going about seeking my own righteousness by good works when God wanted to give me his righteousness through Jesus. Being taught that salvation only came through the RCC when I could have known Jesus as my Saviour and been really born again. And there are many other things being done to reach God, when it was so simple. This is why all those years I didn't know the truth of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ; and was truly lost as a Catholic, yet very religious.
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
To Anonymous 11:00 PM
You need to take a big deep breath and calm down. You are loved. I can tell you are very hurt and I am sorry that you have been and I worry for you. I sense the pain and anger you have. You are just lashing out right now. I don’t feel this is really you. You are now attacking those that have stood by your faith. Right now you can not tell enemy from friend, like a cornered injured animal biting even those that wanted to help you. Which I could not blame you for like you said you have felt attacked for a year.
I was just expressing how tired I am of all the Catholic discussion and do not feel it belongs on this site. I want the arguments to stop. I think you do too.
Here is the history of our posts since neither of us gave a name I is really confusing. There was another Anonymous posting at the same time but these are mine.
Me to Oldmanoftheski:
Oldmanoftheski
I agree I am going somewhere else too.
There is almost no one left with ears that hear and eyes that see on this blog.
It is sad to see it destroyed by these posters that have hijacked it.
I have not seen the best posters here that had good information for quite a while. We are just left with the hijackers.
9:24 PM
(What I was meaning is we have gotten off track and onto subjects that are not helpful. The blog used to have a lot of new age information being discussed, but now it is just about the Catholic Church. There are posters missing that used to post. They used to post good information about the new age movement, there are still some good ones here, but there are ones missing. Yes I said this in frustration so I am sorry for that)
From You to me:
Instead of "talking in circles" - why don't you have the courage to say what you really mean - that the "best posters" are anyone who is not a CATHOLIC!!!
9:59 PM
Me to you, others and Constance:
Wow.....
This is very sad. That is not what I meant. I am tired of the Catholic bashing and the fact that the poor Catholics have to defend themselves.
But now that you have gotten nasty, I am not going to support you side either.
You all have become darkened and full of hate and deserve each other. Both Catholic and non Catholics.
Boy this post that came in response to mine proves to me how lost this blog has gotten.
I have been one of the defenders of the Catholics! But not after this last post. I think all discussion on this Catholic matter needs to end. It is full of hate and venom. This is not of Christ on either side.
You all have gone nuts and none of you have the Spirit of Christ (Charity) which is the principal fruit of the Holy Spirit
(There were some posters that spoke kindly to each other.)
Constance please save your blog.
10:43 PM
(I was very frustrated about the attack I got, for it was not what I was saying. This made me feel that both sides of the Catholic argument are out of line. Sensing posters are being inspired by anger and not Charity (not that people are evil) just upset to the point that they are no longer being Christ-like to each other. By the way some of the best posters are Catholic. Truly I do not have anything against Joyce either she has great things she post on the new age along with many others. I do wish the Catholic stuff would be dropped. I just feel we need to be more respectful of each others religions. We are and will be persecuted enough from the new age we don’t need to do it to ourselves.)
You to me:
“To Anonymous (10:43 PM):
WOW yourself.
If one angry post can turn you against ALL Catholics, then you are a complete MORON.
As if we didn't have plenty to be angry about for nearly a year now.
You just were taken back at being called out on the fact that your 9:24 PM post was VERY transparent!!!
Who ELSE would you be calling "hijackers" (plural) -- except the Catholics -- rather than just one hijacker (singular), who any one with a brain KNOWS is Joyce.”
---------------------------
I want to clarify a few points.
First I did not say I turned against ALL Catholics. Most of my family is Catholic. They are wonderful Christians. They do not show the kind of hate is being posted on this site. None of my family would call someone names like Moron. I do not think this is really you. I think you have just had all you can handle and are very hurt right now. So I will not take it personally.
When I was referring to the hijacking I was referring to the fact that the blog thread is not focusing on the new age it is focusing on the Catholic Church. So yes it has been hijacked by those that posts pro or against Catholicism. Therefore “hijackers” not “hijacker”
When I said I have stood up for Catholics on this site I have. But your post did change that for me. My sympathies have leaned toward the Catholics. Catholics at many times have thanked me for my posts that I wrote in their defense. I have tried to stay out of 99% of it because I never felt the discussion belonged here. I have commented on that in the past too. But when things got ugly I stood up and defended the Catholic faith. But I will not defend those Catholics on this site when they are not showing Christ-like attitudes themselves. These comments did change the way I looked at this situation, for I can not stand along side you if your side does not show Charity. I will not stand on either side of this infighting.
Your attack toward me proved the point I was making. That things have gotten out of control and has darkened the hearts of the posters that no longer have the Holy Ghost but have the spirit of contention. I will not defend those here that are being nasty on either side of this issued. So yes you have lost one of your Catholic defenders by your attack but you have not gained an enemy.
I am very transparent, I am telling you exactly how I feel. When I referred to hijackers I mean that both sides pro and against Catholicism has taken over the site. Though my heart has gone out to Catholics for they have gotten attacked here. I will always support all humble loving servants of Christ no matter what faith they belong to. I will not defend hateful nasty ones regardless of their faith, for why should I defend acts that are not Christ-like.
When I said “You all have become darkened and full of hate and deserve each other. Both Catholic and non Catholics” I am talking about the hate filled posts. Not the loving ones I have seen that have humbly and respectfully discussed Catholicism. So to those I am sorry for this post it is not directed at you. To the posters that have gotten nasty on either side of this issue: I know this is not you, you are truly loving people that are trying to follow your God. Everyone needs to respect that and stop demanding others believe in the same faith they do.
I think the topic of pro or against Catholicism does not belong on this blog. This is to heated of a debate and only causes hurt feelings and negative experiences. This site is about the new age movement. Constance books are not on this subject so why is it being constantly talked about. It detracts from the purpose of this site. The blame is on both sides for escalating this and getting out of control. Everyone that posts about Catholicism non-stop needs to stop and think what they are doing to this site. Please only post about things that are relevant to the new age. (Which is not everything to do with the Catholic Church) This site is losing its purpose and becoming a very negative place to come to. Please just tone it down. Stop the bickering. It is very unbecoming of persons claiming to follow Christ. Love one another as Christ has taught us. We are doing exactly what the new age says Christianity does fight and judge, lets not prove them right.
This site is important to get the message of warning out about the New Age Movement. I fear the devil and his followers are attacking this site to stop its message. I pray that the Holy Ghost can come back to this site and that Christ can cast the devils out. (not the people, but the devils)
Enough said. If I have offended anyone I am sorry that was not my intent. I just am tired of coming here and seeing all the fighting. I have been thinking about not coming here anymore because of it, the same as others have expressed. If I come back to this site, I will not address anything to do with Catholicism ever again.
May God Bless You,
Faith
Margie, your pretty, happy front page at http://hiswordfirst555.ning.com/ certainly is in opposition to your unpleasant comments here. Just because someone is raised in a particular religion does not mean that faith in that religion is given. There are many Catholics who grow in their faith beyond their childhood lessons. There are others who are content to stay at that level.
Experience has taught me that individuals will use quotations from the Bible to justify what they personally want to believe. I do call your attention to the commandment that seems to be ignored here lately, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." Be careful.
Faith, I don't think you can stop Joyce from doing what she wants to do and has been doing for almost a full year, attacking Catholicism and Judaism. She has protection from Constance. Almost all posts from Catholics have been to defend their faith from her attacks. Over the past year many attempts have been made to stop Joyce, from ignoring her to responding to her, but nothing has worked. You say Joyce has given information on New Age on the blog; so have the Catholics, in fact probably much better information though they don't make a big thing out of stretching one piece of information on ad infinitum.
Faith, I don't think you can stop Joyce from doing what she wants to do and has been doing for almost a full year, attacking Catholicism and Judaism. She has protection from Constance. Almost all posts from Catholics have been to defend their faith from her attacks. Over the past year many attempts have been made to stop Joyce, from ignoring her to responding to her, but nothing has worked. You say Joyce has given information on New Age on the blog; so have the Catholics, in fact probably much better information though they don't make a big thing out of stretching one piece of information on ad infinitum.
How is this for combining information about the New Age movement with information about Christianity.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0310/p09s01-coop.html
The coming evangelical collapse
An anti-Christian chapter in Western history is about to begin. But out of the ruins, a new vitality and integrity will rise.
To Margie (3:01 AM):
I am always suspicious when a "former Catholic" decides to share a "testimony" when it's filled with INACCURACIES about what we (devout and practicing Catholics) believe and KNOW to be the TRUTH pertaining to Catholic doctrine.
If you "worshipped" Mary or the Saints -- then you were the ONLY Catholic doing so -- because we Catholics do not believe in worshipping anyone except our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
You say you attended Mass every single day; but yet, you fail to acknowledge the Scriptural readings (Biblical passages) that are a part of every single Mass 365 days a year. (I guess you must have fallen asleep during those readings.)
Anyway, you do not need to provide excuses for all of the other doctrines that you have decided to reject. The door is always OPEN to the Catholic Church -- for you to either enter or LEAVE.
If you are happy where you are, fine. We're happy that you're there too. Just know that when you decide to TRASH your former church, it reflect badly on YOU -- rather than on the former church which you are attempting to trash.
Some of the bloggers here want to arrogantly accuse Catholics of bringing a "dark spirit" to this blog -- but some of you need to take a LONG look in the mirror!!!
To "Faith" (5:11 AM):
I humbly thank you for your sincere and thoughtful clarification in explaining your position in your previous posts.
I apologize for all of my weaknesses and faults also -- but please do not take it out on other Catholics (like the brilliant Susanna and Savia) just because I lost it and / or had a "mini melt down."
This is not about ME being hurt.
This is about ALLOWING the "cancer" of one individual (Joyce) to systematically and intentionally hi-jack (yes, there is your REAL hi-jacker, folks!!!) and control this blog through a process of spreading propaganda and disinformation -- thereby making it necessary for devout Catholics like Susanna and Savia to defend their faith on a daily (and sometimes hourly) basis.
Matthew 12:
47) Then one said unto him, Behold thy mother and thy brethren stand without desiring to speak with thee.
48) But he answered and said unto him that told him,
Who is my mother ? and who are my brethren ?
49) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren !
Correction:
I meant to say "Susanna and Savvy."
Marketing incomparable superiority.
Creating a master race.
YOU can be your own GOD!
http://www.brainspeak.com/Programs/BrainSpeak/index.html
whether people like it or not the rcc is majorly involved in the new age agenda. We can sweep the rcc agenda under the rug or gather the facts.
"Catholicism Married to Pagan Religions and Pantheism
For centuries, the Roman Catholic Church has assimilated to herself the mystery elements of
pagan religions. Subjective religious experience, or mysticism, continues to be the meeting point of pagan religions and Catholicism, particularly so since Vatican Council II, when Rome
changed her major strategy in an attempt to bring Protestants back under the papal fold. The
marriage between Romanism and paganism is documented in official statements from Rome.
For example, in Vatican Council II documents she states,
“. . . In Hinduism men explore the divine mystery and express it both in the limitless riches
of myth and the accurately defined insights of philosophy. They seek release from the trials
of the present life by ascetical practices, profound meditation and recourse to God in
confidence and love. Buddhism in its various forms testifies to the essential inadequacy of
this changing world. It proposes a way of life by which man can, with confidence and trust,
attain a state of perfect liberation and reach supreme illumination either through their own
efforts or by the aid of divine help. . . . The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true
and holy in these religions."
Silvia
Constance-
While I don't know what to make of this SSSS field, I do think that if it were to be used, it could more or less target those 14 and above. Remember that anti-teenager device used to keep kids from loitering around shops? Some gadget is used to emit an annoying sound which only teenagers can hear, to discourage them from hanging about (a great invention!- ha, just kidding). But anyway, if things like that already exist, why couldn't a similar thing be made to target 14 and above for this SSSS thing oldman talks of?
Savvy @ 10:24
Thank you for the reasoned response. I was not attacking anyone--simply questioning.
Old Man of the Ski/Constance--
I recall that there's supposed to be a tone of a certain pitch/frequency that only those under 25(?) can hear.
I don't know the significance of 14 though.
Anonymous, 10:38--
Guess I should read similar posts before putting in my "1 cent's" worth (smile)!
To SV@11:34,
Here's a link to a short bio of E. B-L. Not his occult connections/interest/leanings, and also, those of his friends and admirers.
What you quoted here seems to indicate his alarm at the open coming of evil--but, look at his past associations. Hard to tell.
Sorr, I hit "send" before I included the link.
Here it is:
http://www.polybiblio.com/dbrbinc/01347.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/aupxa7
To Silvia (10:34 AM):
Re: "whether people like it or not the rcc is majority involved in the new age agenda. We can sweep the rcc agenda under the rug or gather the facts."
___________________________________
Well, here are some FACTS for you to gather . . .
Whether you like it or not, the New Age Movement has infiltrated EVERY religious faith . . . and YOURS in no exception.
The New Age Movement is an equal opportunity offender; but if you insist on continuing to ALLOW them to manipulate you against the Catholic Church (rather than seeing "the big picture"), then no one can stop you from having your judgement clouded. But, you're a FOOL if you allow the New Age Movement to manipulate you in this way.
Those "fringe elements" you speak of are just that - FRINGE elements - period. They do NOT - in any way, shape or form - speak for or represent the OFFICIAL Catholic Church (contrary to Joyce's months and months of attempted brain-washing techniques).
The Catholic Church is NOT the "enemy" here.
Satan, the Anti-Christ and the New Age Movement / New World Order are the ENEMIES!!!
It's time to take a long, hard, objective look into what's going on inside of your own "glass houses" (churches).
My thoughts on the 14 years and under. How do they know this unless they have already tested it?
Possibly they have?
http://www.iahf.com/other/20000919.html
Yvonne
anonymous 11:58
"Whether you like it or not, the New Age Movement has infiltrated EVERY religious faith . . . and YOURS in no exception."
My faith is in God and scripture only. You are right that every domination is heavily compromised. I am very much aware of that. That's why i do not call myself a protestant or whatever just a disciple of Jesus Christ. My question is how can one defend or worse pledge allegiance to a church that drifted so far away from biblical truth and is one of the big players of the new age.
Silvia
I meant 'denomination' in my previous post.
Silvia
the hierarchy of churches is not daily business of any church goer it is highly an unfair question, that you expect each person to give up their religion due to the squabbling, politics or other goings on in the hierarchys of any religion that has gone on since the beginings of those religions.
people go to church to be with God not the church in itself.
Yvonne
To Silvia (12:24 PM):
Re: "My question is how can one defend or worse pledge allegiance to a church that drifted so far away from biblical truth and is one of the big players of the new age."
___________________________________
That's an easy one, Silvia.
In Catholic Churches all over the world, every single day (365 days a year), EVERY Catholic Mass contains scriptural readings (taken from the Bible) . . . so we have not moved away from "the truth." Only you (and other misinformed individuals like you) are making those charges.
On that glorious day, when we pass over to the other side to meet our Maker at the gates of Heaven -- all of this WILL be sorted out and made clear.
Yes, there are attempts to take over the Catholic Church (as well as all other churches), but Jesus has PROMISED us that "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18)
Therefore, I am quite confident that HE knows what HE'S talking about . . . since HE is GOD and we're NOT.
another shooting just this morning in Germany by again a 17 year old.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aQWgDilTpKRE&refer=home
Yvonne
Are they trying different frequencies to get to the 14yrs and under. or is this a statement to the gun policies that are just now in debate in congress.
Silvia,
My question to you is how can you defend or worse pledge alliance to "churches" that hi-jacked the Bible and began using it against the very people who gave it to you?
The other questions are:
How do you prove the Sola Scriptura using Sola Scriptura?
Who decides what interpetations of the Bible are true and what are false?
Savvy
GO SAVVY!!!
Silvia:
As if that slithering serpent, Satan and his New Age Movement could not complicate things enough . . .
In addition to pitting Protestants against Catholics and Jews and vice verse . . . one of their little know strategies is to elevate and separate the Christian Evangelicals . . . pitting THEM against the 3 traditional orthodox Protestants, Catholics and Jews.
The new belief system of the New World Religion will be to "abandon the OLD traditional, orthodox beliefs" and REJECT everything you've ever been taught in the "old age" and COME OUT OF IT -- replacing it with the "new age."
Savvy,
Your questions to Sylvia are both of the "loaded"
type, which makes me question your
motives.
How about...
Q. How does my brain prove it's existance using
only itself as a guide ?
A. It just does. Doesn't yours ?
Or,
Q. Who decides which things are true, etc. ?
A The Holy Spirit does. The Holy Spirit is the
Spirit of Truth. Why do you ask ?
The Holy Spirit is the oil that so many people
are going to be clamoring for. Go to those who sell it, and buy for yourself.
Religion and denomination won't save anyone.
Only God can do that.
And lastly, The on-going debate between
Joyce and Susanna and others is heated,
yes, but it seems to me that both of those two parties are quite civilised about it in
general, both have strong wills and strong
feelings and it shows. The nastiness always seems to come from the same few anonymous
commentors who go overboard with the
name calling and the fanning of the flames.
Ignore Anonymous comments !
Thank you, for visiting my site. It is a very a happy site where love for the truth is preeminent. When teaching does not line up with the plumb line of the Word of God, then it is rejected and exposed for what it is. We do have two groups at Proclaiming the truth that expose the false teachings of the RCC, in order to help anyone who is in need of knowing the truth and is open to the truth. In my last post i only touched on a few.
One I neglected to mention and a big one, is the pope who is not the vicar of Christ as the RCC holds him to be. This is what vicar means according to Webster's dictionary. (the pope, regarded as earthly representative of Christ; vicar of Jesus Christ. An ecclesiastic who acts as substitute for).
There is not one place in the Word of God, making any man on earth a substitute for Jesus Christ or in place of. A substitute is someone who acts in place of Christ in all matter of faith and morals. Jesus is God and the pope is mortal man, with sin just as we have.
There is one thing we are though and that is this from 2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray (beg) you in Christ stead, (place) be ye reconciled to God.
Each one of us who truly know Jesus as our Saviour, we are his ambassadors in the earth; we represent him to others. The pope is no different if he knows Jesus as his Saviour. he has elevated himself higher than God has.
The other aspect of the pope is: Only the Word of God is infallible in every respect; every word God has given. This is the meaning of "infallible", of which the pope thinks he is. The RCC has added to the Word of God.
This is from Webster's dictionary. (RCC) incapable of error in setting forth doctrine on faith and morals : said esp. of the pope speaking ex-cathedra (i.e., in his official capacity)
My comment: this is the biggest lie of all, that a mere man cannot make an error in faith and doctrine. Especially because the Word of God has already established all doctrine and no man should add to it with his own doctrine; which all popes have from the beginning of the RCC.
These are the added doctrines by the RCC:
Transubstantiation (the turning the wine into the blood of Christ and the turning of the wafer into the body of Christ),
Mary's role in the church as co-redemtrix, that she is to be worshiped as Queen of Heaven; the pope openly worships her statue and pays her special homage at Fatima. The pope venerates Mary's statue. This is idolatry. The pope also venerates and expects Catholics to do the same veneration by genuflecting to the Monstrance (a gold sun god with the wafer in it). This is Babylonish idolatry.
Just a note here: The pope has recently brought back indulgences for a special blessing; of course you pay for them.
The sacraments which are not in the Word of God as the RCC teaches them: such as baby baptism being sprinkled (not in the bible), first communion, confirmation, the wafer god in communion, confession by a priest, excremunction for a dying person or they will go go pergatory. None of these are in the Word of God. People also pay for special masses for the dead. This is unscriptural. These masses are said to get the dead person out of pergatory where they are paying for their sins so they can gain entrance to heaven. This is what the Word of God says and there is no second chance. Once we die that's it folks.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
Peter was a stone, a little rock as we are. He is not the Rock Christ Jesus. This is what I Corinthians 10:4 (says about who the Rock is) v.4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
With all the deception today, a love of the truth is very important or we will be swept away by all the false teaching and deception.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study (be diligent) to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing (properly handling) the word of truth.
This is what the Word of God say about anyone who would add to the Word of God and teach falsely.
Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (under a curse)
v.9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
This is a warning from Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
This is a serious warning to anyone who would add to what God has already given.
Seeing "defend their faith" makes me wonder how deeply a "spirit of religion" has been ingrained, for violence to break out?
I guess we should look at Northern Ireland?
Is your "faith" in a lovely church building, and ceremony, or is it grounded in Yahushua, the Savior?
During the great tribulation, the church buildings will be destroyed, or the homes of rats, and pigeons.
Perhaps that's what it will take to break the spell?
Paul,
These loaded questions are designed to make people think.
How about...
Q. How does my brain prove it's existance using
only itself as a guide ?
A. It just does. Doesn't yours ?
.................................
The Bible is a book, how can any book or even the Constitution of the U.S. prove it's own existance without another authoritative body to help interpret it?
Who decides which things are true, etc. ?
A The Holy Spirit does. The Holy Spirit is the
Spirit of Truth. Why do you ask ?
...................................
I ask because there are 30,000 and more Protestant denominations that ALL claim to the have the Holy Spirit yet, have conflicting doctrines. Truth cannot contradict truth.
1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?
2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?
3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?
4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?
5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, 'once saved always saved', and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?
6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?
7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Baptists to baptize people in the name of the Trinity and then then Oneness Pentecostals to only baptize them in the name of Jesus
8. How can the Holy Spirit tell Calvinists that pre-destination is right and then tell Arminians that Free Will is ?
It sounds like there are many "spirits" running around
Savvy
S 0 S - - S O S
I listened to President Obama and his Treasury Secretary this morning -- it was clearly plain talk for a New International Economic Order along the same lines I have monitored for the past 28 years.
I am concerned and will be posting a new article here and probably for NewswithViews.com later today.
Constance
Constance
this is the latest I can find on Smart Grid and what it can do.
http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-3563-0-3-3--.html
Yvonne
My thoughts on the over 14: Old Slewfoot is reluctantly recognizing his limitations -- God will protect those under the age of accountability.
Constance
Margie,
The answer to your questions can be found on the following links:
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/pope_peter_rock.htm
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/eucharist.htm
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/mary_in_the_bible.htm
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/sacraments_sacramentals.htm
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/primacy_of_peter.html
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/baptism.html
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html
Savvy
He will protect all who's hearts are fixed on Him.
Our Heavenly Fathers arm is not too short to deliver His people.
How is it that others will not comment on what is relevant to the concerns of this blog simply because others have "hi-jacked" this site? I for one have enough sense to ignore the comments of anothers discussion in hopes of hearing the voice of those things that are informing others to what is going on at it relates to the exposing the New Age developments....which is WHY THIS BLOG EXSISTS!!!! Those of you that have been such good supporters of this sight....where are you when you are needed most!!! Please come back! Although I mayself remain silent as a spectator and listener to those wiser and more informed than I..... and crying out for you return. You have no idea (and neither do I) how many others are coming to this sight to continue to be informed and equipt in the fight against the new age movement...but I can imagine that it is far greater than most of us can imagine. There is so much happening all around us....and we are looking for answers that makes sense of the confusion going on in the world these days. While I am standing upon the rock solid truths of God's word, and my trust is in Him alone...I also believe that He has ordained men and woman to work together in the body of the church which is the bride of Christ....of which some of you here are such a beautiful part. Please do not grow weary in the very good work you have in supporting this very important blog.
JC
Margie,
This discussion is getting a little reptitious. We have posters coming up with the same objections over and over again, so I just post links, because if I post Bible verses, they'll tear it apart and tell me, the interpretations are wrong. Which brings me back to the question who decides what interpretations are right and what are wrong.
Anyways I am going to retire from posting and look for info on the New Age instead
Savvy
I agree JC. I look at this blog daily for an update on New Age Activities. To be honest, I know so little about the New Age, I rely on you researchers. Please don't quit!!
Savy,
BRAVO!!
Dear JoloO.sa,
Thanks for pointing that out. I went to the link that you provided and it's a good mini-bio of him, thank you.
The quote from E. Bulwer-Lytton is from the ending of the article re: the "Black Awakening" and it, unfortunately, doesn't go into detail about him specifically.
He does seem to have been enticed by the occult and I interpreted his quote as intending arrogance, perhaps, rather than compassion for his fellow man. Similar to those today who are arrogantly heralding the NWO all the while knowing what the real intent and purpose for it is.
It seems from my research, so far, that individuals snared in the web of the occult thrive on intertwining a smidgen of "hidden knowledge" with a few facts and alot of fiction.
Some days I feel a little bit like those who used to "pan" for gold in the old days. I spend ALOT of energy sifting through a mountain of useless garbage, to find a few nuggets of solid gold facts. :-)
By His Grace,
-SV
O.K.....Just for the sake of encouraging Constance and other researchers here that we depend upon..... How many others out there like myself and 310pm... now is your moment to speak out and be counted. Just comment with an "here" or "present".
JC
Not all people will be present at the same time...so it could span the period of a couple days---so when ever you happen to pop in..make your presence known.
To Margie (2:15 PM):
And "this is a serious warning to anyone who would" spread inaccuracies and disinformation about the Catholic Church:
It was Jesus Christ Himself who decided to make Peter (now St. Peter, who s not a "ROCK") the first Pope of the Catholic Church and the Vicar of Christ on earth. (He is not a "substitute" but merely a "representative" on earth.)
As Pope, his infallibility is ONLY in reference to teachings on faith and morals in accordance with the Word of God (and NOT about him as a human being).
Neither the Pope, nor Catholics, WORSHIP Mary - but simply HONOR her role and position as the Mother of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If God decided she was a special human being, then we must also accept her as a special human being.
Catholics believe that a person can only enter Heaven after having been baptized and the stain of the Original Sin (from Adam & Eve) is removed. So, why would you deny a person baptism from the time he/she was an infant until he/she is "old enough" - and thus risk denying him/her entry into Heaven?
It was Jesus Himself who turned water into wine at the Last Supper - and it was Jesus Himself who declared, "This is my body."
You may reject, and disagree with, Catholic doctrine - but may have to one day answer for knowingly spreading inaccuracies and disinformation about what the Catholic Church actually teaches.
If you really "love the truth" -- you will stop committing the SIN OF SLANDER by spreading these inaccuracies and disinformation about the Catholic Church!!!
You speak about "deception" - yet what you are doing is deceiving others about the Catholic Church.
___________________________________
NOTE TO PAUL:
I believe we've had this discussion before. It doesn't matter whether I call myself "XYZ" or "Anonymous" - I have been posting on this blog for 2 years now. Therefore, I have just as much right as you do to speak out.
So, please get over yourself, Paul. Also, how do we really know you are in fact really "Paul"? (See? Two can play your silly little game.)
It always amuses me when other bloggers get their "feathers ruffled" over what they call "nasty" responses - when they are experts at dishing out "nasty" responses themselves. Then, one day it comes back and bites them.
"I ask because there are 30,000 and more Protestant denominations that ALL claim to the have the Holy Spirit yet, have conflicting doctrines. Truth cannot contradict truth."
Savvy, the fact that there are so many different denominations can also be seen as a form of Godly protection. Anyone interested in the truth can freely examine various denominations and decide FOR THEMSELVES if one or more of them is/are according to scripture.This way no man can claim (believing is one thing, claiming another) the truth and use it in a totalitarian manner.
Silvia
To JC (3:14 PM):
Here, present and accounted for.
We will be more than HAPPY to get back to doing some serious research on the New Age Movement - which is, after all, the reason why we are here.
God bless you.
The information curve must grow when the powers to be quit leading and start herding. The ability to control is to know the habits and needs of the subject and to concentrate the subjects in as small a space as possible.
Yvonne
What man has to say is not as important than what the Word of God declares. His Word is truth. In fact the word says in Romans 3:4 "let every man be a liar and God be true."
John says this in John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
This is what Jesus said, Peter is a stone not a rock. Peter is a lively stone just like us who make up the body of Christ. The church is not an ediface or a building or denomination of any kind.
We make up that building the church. This is what Peter himself said in I Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
It's so good that Peter said this, as he is referring to himself as a lively stone also as much as we are. Jesus is the Rock of our salvation. Peter was not the first pope. That is a man made exaltation that God never intended. Although God allowed it, because the RCC just could be used by the anti-christ in these last days. The man that sits in the pope's chair if he knows Jesus is a lively stone only.
Savvy, the fact that there are so many different denominations can also be seen as a form of Godly protection. Anyone interested in the truth can freely examine various denominations and decide FOR THEMSELVES if one or more of them is/are according to scripture.This way no man can claim (believing is one thing, claiming another) the truth and use it in a totalitarian manner.
-----------------------------------
Does the Bible say we can decide the truth for ourselves?
A form of Godly Protection, or a divide and rule strategy?
Catholicism does not blindly follow our version of the "truth". We rely on objective evidence to prove subjective "truth".
Objective Evidence = Eye witness accounts of the early church fathers, apostolic fathers, the history of the Bible etc.
The teachings of the Mageristerium based on the deposit of faith handed down by the Apostles, etc.
How the early church saw and read Scripture etc.
You might say that these were just men, that's true, but so were the Protestant reformers or local pastors.
If an incident took place and there were eye-witnessness, would you listen to them or to people who came a 1000 years later and told you what happened.
Even if a major miracle takes place in the Catholic Church, a group of experts are assigned to study it, to talk to eye-witnesses, look for loopholes and inconsistancies, before officialy declaring something a miracle.
However, Individuals can believe in them if they chose, but it won't get an immediate stamp of approval.
It's not that we don't have faith, it's just that there are too many con-artists out there.
Savvy
New Center Revives North America Agenda:
Presses Obama administration to advance continental integration-
"Arizona State University has created a new trilateral research center to advance the continuing globalist agenda to integrate the United States, Mexico and Canada into a North American configuration."
"The North American Center for Transborder Studies, or NACTS, makes clear that while North American integration advocates may have backed off promoting the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America as their vehicle to create a North American Union, the globalist effort to integrate North America economically and politically continues under different names."
"Prominent among members of the NACTS Board of Advisors is Robert A. Pastor, who for more than a decade has called for the creation of a North American Community, which would include a central bank to manage a new currency, the amero, to replace the dollar."
Link Here-
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=91359
Or Here-
http://tiny.cc/MnbUX
**Sidenote- Towards the bottom of this article this interesting reference caught my eye:
"The university media relations office told WND in a phone call that there is no current phone number for the Office of International Affairs. The number the university media relations gave WND as the phone number for the Center for North American Studies was answered as 'The Elders.' WND has reported that Pastor had begun working with The Elders, a conflict-resolution group of world figures, including Nelson Mandela and Jimmy Carter."
By His Grace,
-SV
Margie,
You have put forward your own subjective interpretations that lack objective evidence. On the other hand there's historical/theological evidence to back up every Catholic teaching. And an unbroken line of sucession of Popes from St. Peter.
I would recommend you discover the Apostolic fathers, study the early church fathers, and start reading scripture in the light of the church that gave it to you.
Savvy
This is a website that declares what the RCC believes to be true about Mary as they refer to her as the Queen of Heaven. This is all so false and not in the Word of God.
http://www.geocities.com/reginamundi77/
By the way Mary had other children after Jesus was born. She was not a virgin after that.
Here's a verse that shows James to be the brother of Jesus in an earthly sense. Matthew 13:55 (talking about Jesus and his brothers and sisters) Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
v.56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Matthew 1:25 And knew (sexually) her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Mary came to see Jesus and this is what Jesus said in Matthew 12:47-50 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
v.48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
v.49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
v.50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
James was the brother of Jesus who Mary bore to Joseph. So she was not a virgin when she died.
Mary was only a vessel God used. Mary was conceived by the Holy Ghost not any man. Mary was only Jesus mother to bare him care for him growing up. No part of Mary was involved with the body of Jesus except to nurture him. The womb of Mary was used to bring forth Jesus only.
Her body is in the grave until the resurrection of those who love Jesus.
Hey, Margie (4:02 PM):
When you and I both stand at the Gates of Heaven, I want to watch you -- and listen to you -- tell Jesus and St. Peter in person that Jesus did not create the Catholic Church and make Peter His first Pope.
Come to think of it -- all of this should be happening for all of us very SOON.
Time will tell, won't it???
Savvy,
"Does the Bible say we can decide the truth for ourselves?"
Certainly not. But the truth is there is division among believers and there has been in a large part of history.I believe God is not happy with it but i believe He's using our weaknesses in the best way possible. No one is able to see the whole truth and nothing but. Independently searching the scriptures is a good start though.
If all the protestants would see eye to eye there would be some sort of pope in no time. A totalitarian church system is bound to go wrong because it's not the way God intended. Call no man your father for we have only one Father and He's our Lord.
"If an incident took place and there were eye-witnessness, would you listen to them or to people who came a 1000 years later and told you what happened."
That's why i rely on scripture.
Silvia
To Margie (4:25 PM):
STOP spreading those LIES!!!
Jesus did NOT have any brothers and sisters . . . and Mary did not have any other children.
You are spreading SLANDER and HERESY.
If you're not careful -- someone might question you -- asking you what exactly is your AGENDA on this blog?
Hey, Margie -
Do you and Joyce both work for the same group -- who encourage you both to spread disinofrmation?
Please, can we get back to research on the New Age??
If I read - with my own eyes - in the bible that Jesus did have brothers and sisters - then I beleive he ahd brothers ans sisters -
So what will you do - when you show up in heaven and meet them - are you going to say they did not exist - yes time will prove this out - until that time - I personally read in the bible - that He did.
FACE REGISTERS TRACK CLASS ATTENDANCE (VIDEO)
"Several community colleges in the U.K. are trying out the system. It scans peoples faces with an infrared light, then matches up the image with key facial features that have been stored in the database. The process just takes one and a half seconds. So far the students like it, and the teachers as well because they don't have to spend the 'extra time' on administrative duties."
Link-
http://www.foxnews.com/video-search/m/21971707/click_this.htm
Or-
http://tiny.cc/Kusa7
By His Grace,
-SV
-----------------------------------
If you take that verse literally, you have stop using the father. Scripture is filled with references of people calling their spiritual leaders father.
For example, Joseph tells his brothers of a special fatherly relationship God had given him with the king of Egypt: "So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt" (Gen. 45:8).
Job indicates he played a fatherly role with the less fortunate: "I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know" (Job 29:16). And God himself declares that he will give a fatherly role to Eliakim, the steward of the house of David: "In that day I will call my servant Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah . . . and I will clothe him with [a] robe, and will bind [a] girdle on him, and will commit . . . authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah" (Is. 22:20–21).
This type of fatherhood not only applies to those who are wise counselors (like Joseph) or benefactors (like Job) or both (like Eliakim), it also applies to those who have a fatherly spiritual relationship with one. For example, Elisha cries, "My father, my father!" to Elijah as the latter is carried up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kgs. 2:12). Later, Elisha himself is called a father by the king of Israel (2 Kgs. 6:21).
Paul’s statement, "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
The apostles sometimes referred to entire churches under their care as their children. Paul writes, "Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children" (2 Cor. 12:14); and, "My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!" (Gal. 4:19).
John said, "My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1); "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth" (3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as "fathers" (1 John 2:13–14).
By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers.
Jesus was using hyperbole (exaggeration to make a point) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers.
That's why i rely on scripture.
-----------------------------------
Which brings me back to my question, how do you prove the Bible only rule, by using the Bible only?
Savvy
Anonymous 4:37, 4:41, 4:41, and 4:44,
The thing about Margie is that she has the guts to
put her name there where she speaks, unlike you.
If I read - with my own eyes - in the bible that Jesus did have brothers and sisters - then I beleive he ahd brothers ans sisters -
-----------------------------------
I read in the Bible that he didn't have literal brothers and sisters.
Savvy
Mary was only a vessel God used. Mary was conceived by the Holy Ghost not any man. Mary was only Jesus mother to bare him care for him growing up. No part of Mary was involved with the body of Jesus except to nurture him. The womb of Mary was used to bring forth Jesus only.
Her body is in the grave until the resurrection of those who love Jesus.
-----------------------------------
The Bible tells me otherwise. God created human beings, not just souls/bodies. We are a psychosomatic unity of body-soul. My mother is the mother of the whole person which is me, not just my body or my soul. You're entering into Gnostic dual territory.
Savvy
We had a wonderful bible teacher years ago and I've never forgotten what he said when discussing the Word of God or about anything pertaining to truth in the Word of God. He always said, "chapter and verse please". Otherwise he would discount what we were trying to prove. Everything should be based on the Word of God solely.
This is why the Word of God should be our reference point and only reference point always.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
v.17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished (completely equipped) unto all good works.
This is what Jeremiah says about our hearts that cannot be trusted; only God's word.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
This is why we need to depend solely the Word of God.
This is what Jesus said about his word. Jesus is the Word made flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:1
Jesus said this in John 17:17 Santify (set apart) them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
All things are going to pass away, only God's word will remain for ever.
Jesus said this about his word in Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
This is how powerful the Word of God is from Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, (living, alive) and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder (apart; into pieces or parts) of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents (intentions, purposes) of the heart.
The Word of God is much more than has been mentioned.
Virgins do not bear children. There has to be a planting of the seed by the father of the child. No human being has ever been conceived without this, nor has there ever been a virgin to bring forth a child. Jesus did not come from Mary. He was sent by his Father in heaven and conceived through the Holy Ghost.
This is why Mary was the vehicle to bare Jesus. Matthew tells all about this where Jesus came from.
Matthew 2:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused (engaged, promised in marriage) to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Read v.19 verse 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
read vs.20-22 verse 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
God does not have a mother. Jesus who is God has a Father and the Holy Ghost, the trinity.
read, verse 24 verse 25 And knew her not (knew (sexually) till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
To Paul (5:11 PM)"
Re: "Anonymous 4:37, 4:41, 4:41, and 4:44, The thing about Margie is that she has the guts to
put her name there where she speaks, unlike you."
___________________________________
"Margie" could be "Tweedle dum or Tweedle dee" for all I know or care.
It doesn't matter; it doesn't matter; it doesn't matter.
Stop trying to distract everyone from or cloud the real issue, Paul.
The real issue is that - as long as you're a Protestant - you can post all kinds of disinformation and SLANDER on this blog against the Catholic Church and you will not be held accountable . . .
except maybe in the next life.
CURRENT: Investment in Smart Grid Stimulates Economy, Creates Thousands of Jobs
http://tinyurl.com/chjj87
Hey, Margie -
You STILL have not answered my earlier question . . .
"Do you and Joyce both work for the same group - who encourage you both to spread disinofrmation?"
Savvy
"Jesus was using hyperbole......"
Exactly.
Since protestants have numerous denominations (again, what could be seen as a safeguard; truth is always to be found among them, unlike a totalitarian system; once hijacked-truth altered or in a worst case scenario gone) which means their doctrine differ what may seem like we cannot interpret scripture on our own.
There are various interpretations possible for the many verses in scripture including the thou art peter verse. A substantial amount of people believe Jesus is that Rock, which is supported by the rest of scripture and a substantial amount of people believe Peter is the Rock. I believe Jesus is the Rock, you believe Peter is the Rock. I believe God's Holy spirit convinced me, who or what convinced you?
I don't think one can prove the case to another for sola scriptura. One needs to be convinced that scripture as it is is the truth preserved by God. That conviction is something, i believe, given by Gods Spirit who guides the believer into truth as promised.
Silvia
Margie,
Jesus did come from God, we agree, However Jesus is true God/True man.
Is Jesus God? Yes
Is Mary his mother? Yes
Therefore Mary is the Mother of God.
This does not make her equal to God, but simply confirms the fact that Jesus is true God and true Man.
His human and divine nature are inseparable.
Scripture is clear about this
Elizabeth said "Who am I that the mother of my Lord would come to me?" (Lk 1:43).
Savvy
Since protestants have numerous denominations (again, what could be seen as a safeguard; truth is always to be found among them, unlike a totalitarian system; once hijacked-truth altered or in a worst case scenario gone) which means their doctrine differ what may seem like we cannot interpret scripture on our own.
-----------------------------------This is a self-contradictory statement. You can't say Protestants can accept conflicting doctrines and then tell Catholics that their doctrines are wrong. In order for your argument to make sense you would have to accept Catholic doctrines as valid as well.
I believe God's Holy spirit convinced me, who or what convinced you?
-----------------------------------
I beleive the Holy Spirit convinced me too, by helping me read Scripture through the eyes of the ones who the Holy Spirit inspired to write the Bible.
I don't think one can prove the case to another for sola scriptura. One needs to be convinced that scripture as it is is the truth preserved by God. That conviction is something, i believe, given by Gods Spirit who guides the believer into truth as promised.
-----------------------------------
This is why Sola Scriptura is a logical fallacy. In a court of law the Bible can't defend the Bible. Here we find that Judaism and Catholicsm have something in common, they both rely on objective evidence to affirm subjective faith.
God is not stupid, if you've been given the gift of faith, you should also have the ablility to support it with reason.
Otherwise it turns into a form of Gnosis or this is what some spirit revealed to me, so I am going to go by it even if it contradicts the facts/truth. This is exactly how pyshcis and New Agers function.
Jesus never said truth was subjective and also prayed for unity among his followers.
God is not the author of your Protestant confusion.
Savvy
The Bible does not allow individual interpretations.
"No prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation." Then Peter warns: "But false prophets also arose among the [Jewish] people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who brought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction" (2 Pet 2:1).
Note that under divine inspiration Peter connects individual interpretation with heresies!
Savvy
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten (uniquely related) of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, (uniquely related) which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 1:14 and verse 18
At the baptism of Jesus, this is what the Father said of Jesus.
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him.
And this is what the Father said about Jesus in the next verse.
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matthew 3:16-17
Jesus became a man, the perfect sinless Lamb of God, but he was the Son of God; not the son of man. There is nothing in the word that says he was the son of man.
I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
v.6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Found a verse in Mark that I overlooked; where Jesus said he is the Son of man; my apologies.
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Son is capitolized because Jesus is God and became man for us; for our redemption.
This is what the angel told Mary herself about Jesus in Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
This next verse told to Mary is the clincher of who Jesus is. Mary is not his physical mother.
v.32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give into him the throne of of his father David:
v.35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Jesus became a man, and Mary was the vehicle God would use. Jesus is the Son of God.
This is what Jesus said about those who reject what he has said in his word. John 12:48-50 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
v.49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
v.50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Father God, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Ghost. This is the Godhead and there is not another human being that share this place with the three persons of the trinity; including Mary.
SV, there is plenty of gold in them there hills, and some pearls as well, and you are one of them.
JC, I’m glad that you have come out, and you have done us all a service.
“But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into Him, in all things, which is the head, even Christ: from whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, makes increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.”
Dear Setterman,
A very small pearl that needs ALOT of "spit-n-polish". ;-)
By His Grace,
-SV
Hi JD,
Here is more on Savitri Devi and how her beliefs fit in to the New Age Movement.
FTR #172 Fascism and the New Age:
The Life and Times of Savitri Devi
Posted October 3, 1999 by FTR, in Category: For The Record
(Two 30-minute segments)
One of the tactics of contemporary fascist and Nazi groups is the seduction, infiltration and co-option of groups and philosophies that are not, in and of themselves, fascist.
The New Age and Green movements are among the targets of contemporary Nazi infiltration and elements of each have been successfully seduced. A Nazi mystic and ideologue named Savitri Devi (nee Maximiani Portas) is an icon to contemporary Nazi elements and her philosophy overlaps, and has been accepted by, certain elements of both Green and New Age philosophy. This broadcast sets forth both the history and the philosophy of Savitri Devi. Strongly influenced by Hindu (and specifically Brahmin) culture, Savitri Devi saw the caste system of India and the mythology of the Bhagavad Gita as confirming the Nazi occult philosophy of the so-called “Aryan” origins of the German people. (The program does not detail her actual philosophy which is, past a point, mystical and fundamentally irrationalist in nature. The point of the broadcast is to illustrate the potential appeal of Nazi occultism to New Agers and eco-activists.) Beginning with analysis of the appeal of Hitler and Nazism for the upper castes of Hindu society, the program underscores the manner in which the Third Reich exploited the anti-colonial sentiment of people in the Third World in an attempt to convert them to the Nazi cause. This anti-colonial sentiment, the racism of the caste system and the Nazis’ use of the swastika (a holy Hindu symbol) led many Hindus to view Hitler as an Avatar (a divine spirit). This Hindu sympathy for Hitler ultimately led to the formation of an Indian Legion that fought alongside the Wehrmacht, as well as the RSS (an Indian fascist organization). (The Indian Legion was the brainchild of a militant Indian nationalist turned Axis spy and fascist named Subhas Chandra Bose, nicknamed “The Duce of Bengal”. (Bose is discussed in RFA-7.) The program highlights the Third Reich’s use of anti-colonial sentiment and anti-Semitism to win Arabs over to the Nazi cause. (It should be noted that Hitler’s racism has engendered contempt on the part of his followers toward both Indians and Arabs, a fact often overlooked by Indian and Arab Nazi apologists, to their own detriment.) Devi’s profound connections to post-war Nazi luminaries Hans Ulrich Rudel and Otto Skorzeny led to her enshrinement as a major philosophical pillar of contemporary Nazism. (Both Rudel and Skorzeny became leaders of what Mr. Emory calls “the Underground Reich”. Rudel is discussed in FTR-168 and Skorzeny, one of the leaders of ODESSA, is discussed RFA-22 and FTR-83.) Devi was connected to both American Nazi Party founder George Lincoln Rockwell and William Pierce, the leader of the National Alliance and author of The Turner Diaries. (For more on Pierce see FTR-90.) Most of the second half of the program consists of analysis of the confluence between Devies Nazi occultism and elements of New Age and “Deep Ecology” philosophies. Sharing a misanthropic, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, atavistic, irrationalist orientation that views animals as equal or superior to homo sapiens, Devi’s fascism has led to her acceptance in certain New Age and Green circles. The Rosicrucians, for example, have published one of her titles. (See also RFAs 3 and 4, Miscellaneous Archive Shows M7, M14-17, M19, M21, M53, M58 and FTRs 9, 10, 11, 12, 27, 60, 64, 65, 70-72, 81, 87, 92, 97.) (Recorded on 10/3/99.)
http://spitfirelist.com/?p=1698
JD and SV
SV, one of the informative links you posted was to an article about ODESSA from the Jewish Virtual Library in which we read:
....Some war criminals remained in Germany and took on new identities, managing to get themselves smuggled out of Germany and to freedom during the chaos at the end of hostilities. An underground network called "Die Spinne" (The Spider) supplied false papers and passports, safe houses, and contacts that could smuggle war criminals across the un-patrolled Swiss borders. Once into Switzerland, they moved on quickly to Italy, using what some called "The Monastery Route." Roman Catholic priests, especially Franciscans, helped Odessa move fugitives from one monastery to the next until they reached Rome. According to Wiesenthal, one Franciscan monastery, Via Sicilia in Rome, was virtually a transit station for Nazis, an arrangement made possible by a bishop from Graz named Alois Hudal. Wiesenthal speculates that the motive for most of the priests was what he viewed as a misguided notion of Christian charity....
http://tinyurl.com/csmcgo
or
http://www.jewishvirtual
library.org/jsource/
Holocaust/odessa.html
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Actually, the author of the article in the Virtual Jewish Library was being charitable because Bishop Alois Hudal was a notorious pro-Nazi politicking prelate, who, according to some, was also an honorary member of the Nazi Party.
Even when defending the Catholic Church against claims made by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's outrageous claims that Pope Pius XII did nothing to help the Jews during the Second World War, even the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights does not deny that Bishop Hudal was a Nazi sympathizer.
.....The recently released memoirs of Adolf Eichmann also contain new evidence disproving Goldhagen's claim. The memoirs confirm that Vatican protests played a crucial part in obstructing Nazi intentions for Roman Jews. Eichmann wrote that the Vatican "vigorously protested the arrest of Jews, requesting the interruption of such action." At Eichmann's trial in Jerusalem, Israeli attorney general Gideon Hausner said, "the pope himself intervened personally in support of the Jews of Rome." Documents introduced at the trial provide further evidence of Vatican efforts to halt the arrest and deportation of Roman Jews.
No accusation is too preposterous for Goldhagen to accept. Commenting on the Vatican's alleged link to Nazi war criminals, he claims that Alois Hudal, an Austrian prelate and Nazi sympathizer, was "an important Catholic bishop at the Vatican," as well as a "close friend" and "confidant" of Pius XII. Indeed, he adds, both Pius XII and the future Paul VI actively supported Hudal in his criminal assistance to fleeing Nazi war criminals.
As it happens, Alois Hudal was never a bishop "at the Vatican," much less an "important" one, but rather an obscure rector of the Collegio dell' Anima in Rome, where he was placed to confine him to a post of little significance. Hudal also was never a "close friend" of Pius XII or Montini. In fact, Hudal's memoirs bitterly attack the Vatican for steadfastly refusing an alliance with Nazi Germany to combat "godless Bolshevism." Far from assisting Nazi war criminals in their escape, Pius XII authorized the American Jesuit Edmund Walsh to submit to the War Crimes Tribunal at Nuremberg a dossier documenting Nazi war crimes and atrocities. The recent book by David Alvarez, "Spies in the Vatican: Espionage & Intrigue from Napoleon to the Holocaust," shows how much Hitler distrusted and despised Pius XII.....read more....
http://tinyurl.com/ddr3eu
http://www.catholicleague.org
/research/history
_as_bigotry.htm
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It would seem that the reason why Bishop Hudal was "confined" in Rome "to a post of little significance," was because of a book he wrote entitled THE FOUNDATIONS OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM which was an enthusiastic endorsement of Hitler.
.....When, in 1937, Hudal published his booklet on the basic foundations of National Socialism, Church authorities were upset, because of his deviations from Church policy and teachings.
Hudal in 1937, without mentioning names, had openly questioned the Vatican policy of Pope Pius XI and Eugenio Pacelli towards National Socialism, which culminated in the same year in the encyclical Mit brennender Sorge, in which the Vatican openly attacked National Socialism. The 1937 Hudal book freezes his steady rise in Rome and results in his abdication and removal from the eternal city after the war. His publication like his two previous, less obvious books Rom, Christentum und deutsches Volk (1935) and Deutsches Volk und christliches Abendland (1935) did not have any Imprimatur or ecclasiastical approval, which was another reason for the cooling off of relations with the Vatican of Pius XI.
Hudal had proposed a Faustian bargain between Church and Nazis, a "truly Christian National Socialism": Education and Church affairs remain in the hands of the Church, which in turn recognizes the complete separation of politics to be exclusively National Socialist. The Nazis however had no intentions of giving up education to the Church. Together - according to Hudal - Church and state in Germany would fight against Communism. Hudal sees a direct link between Jews and Marxism and laments their alleged dominance in academic occupations Hudal supports discriminatory segregation legislation against Jews in order to protect a people against foreign influences.
But all this was too much for Pope Pius XI and Eugenio Pacelli. Both attempted first to change Hudal, but after several unsuccessful meetings, broke off all contacts. Hudal, in previous years a popular and influential guest in the Vatican, lived from 1938 on in de facto isolation in the Anima College (which position he was forced to abdicate in 1952). Hudal's 1933 promotion to Bishop has been cited as evidence that he had close ties to members of the Roman Curia, particularly Cardinal Rafael Merry del Val (an ex-Secretary of State who died in 1930), and Cardinal Secretary of State Eugenio Pacelli, the future Pius XII who had previously been Papal Nuncio in Germany. His very close relation to these prelates and to Pope Pius XI stopped immediately after the publication of his book in 1937, which was interpreted as contradicting Mit brennender Sorge and the 1933 Reichskonkordat.
His exile within Rome continued during the years of World War II. Bishop Hudal continued as pastoral head of the Anima Church and College but had not position in the Vatican State Department and no access to Pope Pius XII, and his senior staff............
......After 1945, Hudal continued to be isolated in the Vatican. In his native Austria his pro-Nazi publication was now openly discussed and critiqued. In 1945, Soviet-Allied-occupied Austria forced Hudal to give up his Graz Professorship, however Hudal appealed on technicalities and regained the title two years later.
Yet, after 1945, Hudal regained additional notoriety by working in the Rat-line, helping former Nazis but also Croatian families to find safe haven in overseas countries......read more......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alois_Hudal
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JD, this might be of special interest to you. Savitri Devi, whom I have previously mentioned was personally acquainted with Otto Skorzeny, a chief organizer of the Ratlines that formed the basis for ODESSA.
In the chaotic aftermath of the War, Nazi sympathisers established a series of escape routes, known as "rat-lines", for war criminals fleeing Europe. One rat-line, the Odessa ("Organisation of Former SS-Members", made famous by Frederick Forsyth's The Odessa File) was run by Hitler's favourite commando, Otto Skorzeny, who went on to advise Argentine dictator Juan Perón about setting up a Fourth Reich in Latin America.
Another led through Rome, a favourite destination for Nazi "pilgrims", where they were helped by a number of high-ranking Vatican officials. A notable example was Austrian bishop Dr Alois Hudal, who felt it his "duty" to prevent German fugitives from falling into Allied hands and made a secret pact with the Italian police to take wanted Nazis (including Eichmann, Stangl and Gustav Wagner, deputy commandant of Sobibor) to selected churches and monasteries.
http://tinyurl.com/daft78
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The following tells of Savitri Devi's activities after the war, her knowledge of ODESSA and plans for the future establishment of the Fourth Reich.
HITLER'S PRIESTESS - SAVITRA DEVI THE HINDU ARYAN MYTH AND NEO-NAZISM
THE ODESSA CONNECTION
http://tinyurl.com/ae39zs
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OTTO SKORZENY
........Otto Skorzeny (June 12, 1908 – July 6, 1975) was a Standartenführer in the German Waffen-SS during World War II. After fighting on the Eastern Front, he is known as the commando leader who rescued Italian leader Benito Mussolini from imprisonment after his overthrow. He also was the initiator of Operation Greif, for which he was judged after the war: this special operation involved false flag tactics, that is wearing the uniform of the enemy to confuse him and advance into his lines. He also helped train the Werwolves, a para-military stay-behind organisation which tried to engage in guerrilla warfare against the Allies, and organized German escape routes, which formed the basis of the ODESSA network after the war, which helped exfiltrate National Socialist party officials and military officers to Francoist Spain and other friendly countries (in particular South America). After creating the Paladin Group in 1970, he died a few months before Franco himself, in July 1975. .....read more......
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Otto_Skorzeny
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JULIUS EVOLA - an occultist of the "Traditionalist School who influenced Savitri Devi
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Julius_Evola
From Infowars (3/11/09):
U. S. Army Puts Soldiers on the Street in Samson, Alabama in Response to Shootings
http://www.infowars.com/us-army-puts-soldiers-on-the-street-in-alabama-in-response-to-shootings/
Dear Susanna,
WOW! Thanks for the links. After reading 'THE ODESSA CONNECTION', which was quite alot to digest on its own, I couldn't help but see a few parallels between Otto Skorzeny and Mr. Javier Solana re: the breadth of their influence politically and militarily.
The mystic influence of Devi, factoring in the era and the lack of technology of that era in comparison to our times, was ingenius. One can certainly see the work of the evil one leading up to where we are today.
With the advancement of technology in our times, that we've been particularly addressing of late, it's a small wonder that the exceleration of the works of these evil prinicipalities is unprecedented.
By His Grace,
-SV
Dear SV
You are right. One can certainly see the work of the "mystery of iniquity" leading up to where we are today.
In fact a lot of what we are seeing today that goes by the name of "New Age" is actually little more than old errors wearing new labels.
As I have mentioned previously, Savitri Devi was also an admirer of Rene Guenon and quoted approvingly from five of his books in her "Souveniers et réflexions d'une Aryenne" (written between 1968 and 1971.
http://tinyurl.com/az5v5t
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Rene Guenon was a "bishop" in a branch of the gnostic Cathar Church established by Jules Doinel in 1888.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Doinel
http://www.oto-uk.org/EGC-history.php
The famous occultist and Tarotist Gerard Encausse (a.k.a. "Papus") who was at one time a member of Madame Blavatsky's Theosophical Society also functioned as a "bishop" in Doinel's church.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papus
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Much of Jules Doinel's "theology" was derived from "spirits" conjured during seances held at the home of Lady Marie Caithness, Duchess of Medina Pomar.
Doinel had long been associated with Lady Caithness, who was a prominent figure in the French Spiritist circles of the time, a disciple of Anna Kingsford, and leader of the French branch of the Theosophical Society. She considered herself a reincarnation of Mary Stuart; and interestingly, a Spiritist communication in 1881 had foreshadowed to her a revolution in religion which would result in a "New Age of Our Lady of the Holy Spirit."
Doinel's Gnostic seances were attended by other notable occultists of various sects; including the Abbé Roca, an Ex-Catholic Priest and close associate of Stanislas de Guaita and Oswald Wirth. Communications from the spirits were generally received by means of a pendulum suspended by Lady Caithness over a board of letters....
http://www.geocities.com/athens
/acropolis/
1896/egc.html
This "Lady of the Holy Spirit" was none other than the heretical gnostic pagan "Sophia"/"Achamoth" dredged up from the 2nd century A.D.
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Lady Caithness was a good friend of Helena Petrovna Blavatsky.
Rene Guenon was an anti-Semite, which is not surprising since he was a "bishop" in a neo-Cathar church which regarded the Jews as the "bad seed" (creatures of the "evil" God of the Old Testament - a.k.a. the "demiurge").
In 1911, Guenon was initiated into "esoteric Islam" which is also known as Sufism.
Interestingly, Nazis of the past and neo-Nazis have tried to forge ties with Arab Muslim groups - al-Qaeda included -because of the anti-Semitism they commonly embrace.
Rene Guenon was also one of the architects of the so-called "Traditionalist School" along with Julius Evola who was also an influence on Savitri Devi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Gu%C3%A9non
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Evola
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By the way, the same Bulwer Lytton you mentioned earlier - an English Rosicrucian who wrote THE COMING RACE - was friends with French occult author and magician Eliphas Levi who is credited with spearheading the occult revival in 19th century. Papus was greatly influenced by Eliphas Levi and in fact took his pseudonym, "Papus" which means "physician" from Lévi's "Nuctemeron of Apollonius of Tyana"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliphas_L%C3%A9vi
http://www.hermetic.com/sabazius/papus.htm
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Isn't it interesting how these things all tie into one another?
Savvy,
"You can't say Protestants can accept conflicting doctrines and then tell Catholics that their doctrines are wrong."
I've never stated that protestants can accept conflicting doctrines. The FACT is they do. Protestants agreed on core doctrine hence the reformation.
"This is why Sola Scriptura is a logical fallacy. In a court of law the Bible can't defend the Bible."
We are to let the text speak for itself and if it is not clear, we go to other statements made on the same subject that would qualify what is being taught in the text.
Jesus said “My sheep hear my voice.” That voice is found first and foremost through the Scriptures.
Silvia
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