According to a recent article appearing in EurActiv.com, the gentleman at the left, Laurent Cohen-Tanugi has been delegated by the French government for its upcoming 6 month EU presidency to make plans to vastly project European power -- far beyond the "sweeping reforms" Javier Solana has declared the in ratification progress "Lisbon Treaty" will make. Msr. Cohen-Tanugi says that the "Lisbon Strategy is an inadequate answer to globalisation." I found 87 google hits of Solana's and Laurent Cohean-Tanugi's name together. I have not yet had time to analyze all. According to Euractiv:
Although the Lisbon Strategy is delivering initial results, the EU needs to "quicken the pace" and "adopt a global viewpoint" or it will be "out of the race by 2020", argued Laurent Cohen-Tanugi, the author of the report, in an interview with EurActiv France before the official presentation of the report to the government on 15 April.
It is hard to say if this is being done at Solana's behest or to upstage him. As I recall the prophecies, whoever and whatever "the beast" ends up being would trample the whole earth underfoot.
It certainly sounds like the European aspirations are decidedly global.
Stay tuned!
243 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 243 of 243Wow !
I leave the blog for a few days and
come back to find all my prayers
answered.
Dorothy, "J" has it right on the money.
I don't need to be converted.
Everything that I've read from him
I already believe. It's a much more
coherent and succinct version of
what I've been trying to get across
all along.
I'll say it again:
Jesus is Messiah. He is the perfect
fullfillment of all the Law and the
Prophets.
Read the Bible for yourself and
stop letting your priest or rabbi
interpret it for you. It was given
to the common man. The Holy
Spirit will gladly open it up to
you. Jesus called the Holy Spirit
the Spirit of Truth.
Paul
Well now, what have we been discussing? In Mohawk, His name is Yesos, pronounced Yea-zos. In Lakota He is called the Morning Star. Mary and Joseph were told His name would be “Emmanuel”, the Lord is with us. In my Southern Baptist rooted small church, we are saved by one name only, Jesus, pronounced Geez-is, as if no other name but the Greek will do.
Yet He was fully man and fully God, and revealed the error in the limited, yet slavish, understanding we imparted to His scriptures. He died so that we might live. Therefore, by accepting His atoning sacrifice, we are neither Greek nor Jew, slave nor fee, Baptist or Catholic.
Shades of ecumenism! What’s this? We are all one in Christ? Who says so? Not my words, His. But the authorities in our “denominations” teach otherwise. Those fearing linkage with some coming anti-Christ teach that any movement towards unity in the faith is an evil plot. These are they who continue to preach that your Yeshua is not the same as my Yesos. My Yahweh is better than your Jesus. Your church is all wrong, mine knows better.
Oh really?
Does unity in the faith equal syncretism? Is it evil? Not as I read my Bible. Is unity in the faith possible on this earth? Not as I read history, (or the comments in this blog!), which have served to reveal our individual petty views of God. Certainly Christmas trees, the rosary, the red white and blue flag draped Jesus of the Christian right, even the cross itself, with or without Jesus hanging on it, have become idols to some.
The bottom line is, human beings choose to accept or reject the very God who made us. No matter how we pronounce His name, if we hear His call and respond, we belong to Him. There is only one gate, and one gatekeeper. It is a very narrow opening.
As for anti-christ….
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jo 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ [as] coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Just like the Jews for Jesus people hand out their pamphlets to Christians rather than going to locations where Jews congregate, so you have chosen to spread your message to readers here who are almost exclusively Christian.
If I am wrong, please let us know the Catholic, New Age, Jewish and Muslim sites at which you post so that we can know that you are sincere in your efforts to spread what you consider is the good word.
Readers here who have seen the New Age tactical style as it is used to seduce adherents will know what I am talking about. Those who only understand high level political activity will not.
The natural inclination of individuals to not kick kittens is a tactic used at all levels by those manipulating others into the New Age movement. I became immune to it 24 years ago. I'm sure you know exactly what I mean.
Dorothy
As I said on the other thread, glory and hallelujah...opposites do attract. Now Paul, you will only have positive things to say about Jews for fear of offending J.
Paul
Old man,
If all Christians want to join into one believing group, let it be God's will if it is to happen.
Judaism is a stand alone religion with a 6,000 year history and will continue that way until God, and not a group of Christians or New Agers and their writings, decides otherwise.
Dorothy
I was starting another sentence with the word Paul and posted the note by accident. The last comment which appeared to be signed by Paul was signed by me.
Dorothy
Dorothy,
Thanks for the outstanding write-up on Messianic Judaism -- that was exactly the information I was looking for. Armed with that "head start" I can now do my own research.
The most annoying aspect of J's posts for me has been the condescending manner in which he/she goes on and on toward you. I will explain:
Anyone who has read this website for any length of time (and I class "J" in this group) knows that you and Constance have worked together for 25 years (not to mention the fact that you ride shotgun for her both on the radio show and on this comments board). You probably have heard more about--and know more about-- Christianity at this point than many Christians. It is with these facts in mind that J's incessant claims that he/she is only trying to bring Christ (or "Yeshua") to a fellow Jew who has not heard the Gospel must be evaluated--and it is impossible to reasonably conclude that he/she has been acting in anything other than bad faith.
I am baffled and dismayed that by throwing out the right biblical references and "testimony," J has managed to gain credibility with a few of the regulars here who should know better. "J" is a master manipulator who pushes all the right theological "buttons" and suddenly all capacity for rational thought about J's actual behavior flies out the door.
This divisive dynamic is one I've seen before--it is most disturbing and it never ceases to amaze me. I'm really sorry to see it going on here.
Rose
The most annoying aspect of J's posts for me has been the condescending manner in which he/she goes on and on toward you. I will explain:
Dorothy,
Forgive me for quoting myself, but I have just read your 11:45.
What I should have said was:
"The most annoying aspect of J's posts for me has been the condescending manner in which he/she goes on and on toward you--allegedly for your "benefit," but in actual fact for the sole aim of seducing and manipulating Christian readers."
Rose
Hi all, It's Adam here. Let me tell you a little story that I've just thought of.
There was an electrician who was working on a big project. Working very hard they hear someone walking towards them So they stop what they're doing to have a chat. They see a plumber standing there looking at their work. "hmm, I think the products your using there are a bit dodgy" the plumber says. Slightly annoyed by the comment the electrician carries on with the job thinking how dare a plumber say that to me an electrician. The plumber then states "If you had different tools you'd feel a lot more confident doing that and you might possibly find you have difficulty on a certain task you have later with yours" Outraged the electrician stands up and gives them a good talking to. At the absolute annoyance of the electrician the plumber carries on trying to tell them that what they're doing might not work out for the best in the end But after a lot more verbal from the electrician the plumber finally decides to leave them to it.
The moral of this story is that the plumber was only trying to help But there's a twist, The plumber actually used to be an electrician and could see them making the same mistakes they did.
For all we know the plumber could have been wrong anyway But the electrician didn't even bother to check or even thank them for trying to help.
Another point is that the plumber didn't go over to all their electrician friends over the road and start laughing at them, they approached directly with what they knew about it and gave them the chance to reply back.
Hope you all like the story and maybe get something from it.
I love you all.
[Adam]
Rose,
Yes, J is what you say the person is. Targeting particularly you and RL as Catholics and me as a Jew says volumes.
Most people don't understand that when dealing with change agents you can't let them set the terms of the discussion. They do it so smoothly most people don't know it is happening.
Whether it's a cult operation such as The Forum, a New Age presentation, an Alinsky organizing meeting, a meeting to which the school has invited parents to introduce a new program, a political rally or one of those "make money our way" presentations, the tactics are always the same. The leaders are trained to present the information so that the target only has two choices, and one will seem to be the wrong one, the one where you look like you're kicking the friendly kitten who only wants to help.
If you and I stayed in the set up box, the two possible responses were changing our beliefs or kicking the helpful kitten who was only trying to help for our own good. It's why I don't participate in set-ups done by trained strangers.
You are an usually warm, decent person, friendly with everyone. I think it was your intelligence that made you take the steps you did.
Dorothy
Adam, if you get a pretty envelope with "Donald Trump" as the return address and when you open it it says Donald Trump is inviting you to come and learn how he made billions and has chosen you because of your qualities, stay home.
Dorothy
Dorothy
I'm not sure if that was an insult, compliment or a joke But I appreciate you thinking of me anyway :)
would someone mind taking the time to point out exactly where "J" was wrong in his/her posts.
I have seen lots of accusations here, but no credible evidence that anyone looked at what he had to say and is responding to the points made. We can't dialog with meanness.
Perhaps we are getting a little to cynical towards others we feel are trying to "change us". Maybe some of us need changing.
Do we have to run off "the other" every time? I don't know if I can read this blog much longer with all the attacks and mudslinging. This is just not edifying for me.
Adam, it was just a lighthearted comment based on your allegory. I don't know if you've ever had the chance to see trained individuals in action as I have in all of the scenarios I mentioned. The reality is in your scenario the plumber wouldn't happen around to help as much as to sell a new line of equipment. A really helping plumber would be open and honest in his approach.
That's real life.
Dorothy
Anonymous 8:01,
If someone came to the comments section and wanted to convince me, by name, to buy a vacuum cleaner, would I be obliged to buy it because the salesman wouldn't take no for an answer? If someone came on and insisted with long winded comments that I try their recipe for potato soup and wouldn't take no for an answer, would I be forced to explain why I prefer beef soup? Wouldn't I be justified in stating why I believed they were pushing potato soup or vacuum cleaners on a website set up to discuss the New Age movement?
Dorothy
Dorothy
Thanks for confirming it was a Joke, I did find it funny But had to be sure it wasn't an insult before allowing myself to laugh :)
I can understand your concerns about "J" But I'm quite certain they're nothing sinister or anything to worry about.
I do have quite a lot in common with them So please don't be too harsh.
Take care
[Adam]
Dorothy 11:54,
It is His will, and it will happen. Excuse me, but I have to get ready, there's a wedding in my future.
Adam, do you know something that hasn't been presented here....such as J's name, messianic organization connection? Without that information J remains a total stranger as far as I'm concerned and I can only judge what I see before me.
Dorothy
Dorothy and everyone.
Yes, I know J's full name etc But obviously that's not to share here.
I can't see anything here that points to her being anything other than a devoted Messianic believer, which is all she is.
I know virtually everything she's said But I've never been taught by anyone or had hardly any contact with anyone that believes the same things as me (In fact I'm pretty much a loner unfortunately)
I can understand your concern But I think this is now getting out of hand. It's not nice what is being said And I'm asking that everyone including "J" just calms down and starts to be a little more thoughtful about other peoples feelings, even if you feel you've been wronged. Confront comments said in posts that you don't necessarily agree with but please don't put anyone down
I'm a Messianic believer But not everyone's the same So I find it insulting to have been basically labeled with people hanging around on street corners etc.
Anonymous 8:01 wasn't me by the way So someone else obviously feels the same.
Still love you all.
[Adam]
Adam, obviously not every messianic believer feels it necessary to do aggressive missionary work, insulting those who hold other views. There is a long history of relations between Jews and Christians, some of it very bad and some good. Because J believes as you do doesn't mean he/she hasn't been trained in manipulative tactics. Messianic Judaism is not an exception from all of the religious groups that have been infiltrated by New Age adherents. Nothing you've written negates my analysis of J's tactics.
Of course confrontations are unpleasant, but those taunted can only be expected to back off for so long.
It may be fine line I draw, but I don't attack the New Age religion because its followers aren't Jewish. My analysis of the NA movement is documented, not from what Jews have written about it, but from their own material and the historical record. I haven't picked a few sections from one book, done my own interpretation of the words from a translation of my choice and then told NA believers that they are wrong, for their own good of course.
Now everything that J believes may be good enough for him, but J isn't my spouse, parent or teacher, so I don't have to act nice for the sake of peace if I am challenged.
Now back to sharing information on the growth of the NA movement.
Dorothy
Hi All, this is "J"
I didn't realize there was page 2 until Adam pointed it out to me. It's been kind of fun reading the comments, almost like being an observer at my own funeral. Kind of fun, except only a few of my friends were there. Hey I wish you all well.
Adam's right, since he took the time and interest to get to know where I am coming from. I love the Scriptures. I love people. I don't like the Catholic church even though I have many friends who are Catholics...I would love one day to see Dorothy see her Messiah, but that's not in my hands, that's in God's hands. I'm just sorry that Yeshua has been misrepresented to the Jewish people for all these years. That's probably why my family got scared and hid their origins. I just happen to be a person who thinks those things through and analyzes them, so there you go...now you understand a little more about me...
I also believe that there is no more Jew or Greek in Messiah Yeshua, in the sense that we all come to Him the same way...through faith in His death and resurrection.
Now if you think I am opinionated I will say "guilty". Just remember that my opinions are based on lots of life experience and questions and mostly praying and studying the Bible. I try not to rely on ME, because I used to do that before knowing Yeshua and it doesn't work very well. Once in a while, the old flesh patterns kick in but I don't think I'm unique in that...since none of us has arrived yet.
I do not like what the New Age movement is doing. I just happen to think there are solutions to it and that is God's Word. The better we know it. The more we follow it, the more we will be able to stand firm when the "evil day" comes.
Whether you call Yeshua, Yeshua or Jesus, that is your business, but He is the one who will crush the anti-Messiah, so whether your a Catholic, a Jew a Muslim etc. My suggestion is do your best to get to know Him and put your confidence in His Word. That will give you great comfort and protection in the days to come.
Now put your animosity aside and just look to the One who has the power to help you in the Days ahead!
Oh, and one more thing Dorothy, the Catholic church just started praying the prayer for the Jews to come to believe in Jesus too, so Rose and RL probably haven't seen that lately or they wouldn't be so hard on me. Having said that Dorothy....
I just wanted you to know that another version of Him is out there and that's the version that represents HIm in a little more Jewish way. If you already knew that then, great. I also hoped you could see Him in Torah and as Torah, but now again you have the information and it's in God's hands what happens with it, and what you want to do with it. God has made us in HIs image and as such we have both the freedom and responsibility to chose..
Blessings and shalom to you in Messiah Yeshua
"J"....yes, by the way I'm not a HE...that was kind of amusing, but only kind of...thanks Adam for straightening that out.
Dorothy,
One small little point that I forgot to mention. I haven't had any training in "manipulative tactics" as you call them, unless reading the Bible qualifies as manipulation.
Have you looked at Isaiah 53 and answered me directly? It's easy to insult and accuse people of all kinds of evil intentions, but just look at the Scripture and then we can have an honest discussion about what you really think it means. Rabbis discuss the Scriptures all the time. We don't accuse them of manipulation. What I am doing, in fact is very Jewish. I'm looking at Torah and trying to understand what God said. I just spent a good chunk of time studying with a rabbi and this is exactly what we did, so...
I never insulted you or anyone else on this forum. I am only present my views. Sorry if you think I am using "tactic" but you are giving me a bum rap and haven't listened to what I have said at all.
We cannot discuss something as spiritual as the Last Days, the New Age, the New World Order, the AntiMessiah, etc without bringing spiritual ideas in. This is impossible. The fact that we are even having this discussion is because we all have a belief that what we see going on is wrong i.e. the New Age infiltration. You want to keep this neutral, but for me it is not neutral. Neutral will be the door that antimessiah walks through.
Our defense against the false teachings is the TRUTH. For me the truth is the Bible, all 66 books, including the teachings of Yeshua. He is the true Messiah and New Age will usher in the false...How will you recognize your Messiah when you see Him.
That is an important question and you should be asking yourself that. The Bible says, "if it were possible even the elect would be deceived".
Deception will be worse in the days ahead so we need to exhort one another and walk in truth of Scripture so that no one stumbles...Jew, Gentile or otherwise.
Why don't you write about who you think Messiah is. Maybe we can all learn something from you..
Shalom,
Joyce
You call yourself Joyce rather than J. Other than that, nothing about your approach has changed. I buy none if it.
Dorothy
Rose,
I don't want to leave you out, so what may I ask am "I seducing Christian readers" into? Reading their Bibles and loving Yeshua? On the contrary, that's what we are SUPPOSED to be doing whether we call ourselves Christians, Messianics or whether we call Him Jesus or Yeshua. Unless of course when you say "Christian" you really mean Catholic. In this case, reading the Bible hasn't been encouraged in the Catholic Church. They're afraid people might actually see that their doctrines don't line up with Scripture and they would lose all their power.
I would hardly call what I do seduction, seduction usually entails leading people AWAY from the Scriptures. Usually those of us who read Bibles are used to healthy and lively discussions about different doctrinal positions based on the Word.
The rabbis do this too and we should not be scared of this kind of discussion or debate.
If you want to accuse me of something, please say something coherent. It's easy to make some vague statements about someone and try to undermine their character. In Hebrew that's called "lashon hara" ."evil tongue" Dorothy probably knows the expression. It's why Miriam got leprosy in the Torah...The Bible teaches us not to slander.
I have expressed my opinion about the Catholic Church based on personal first hand experience, based on Biblical beliefs and excuse me, but I do have the right to do that. I do think it is relevant to this forum because I see the Catholic Church as instrumental in promoting the sort of uniting of religions that is consistent with the New Age belief system.
That is my conviction and time will tell if I am right or not..I am criticizing an institution that has persecuted MY PEOPLE...THE JEWS, MY Brothers and Sisters, THE BIBLE BELIEVERS and their faulty, self-serving doctrines. I am also criticizing, an institution that obscures Biblical truth in convoluted doctrines that they make up as they go along under the guise of so-called "Papal infallibility" which is no where to be found in the Bible. Yeshua gave His disciples the authority to bind and loose which has a very specific significance relating to halakha (another Hebrew expresion)...not any Pope, which never existed in HIs day.
You, as a Catholic who seems intent on protecting the Catholic Church, have not addressed any of the things you are defending if for. Instead of resorting to name calling and slandering my character why don't you address the following issues:
1. Like the Pope promoting the UN, which he did in a speech on international television just last week. I wish I could send you the transcript.
2 Like the former Pope, John Paul II praying with animists, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc, etc. What do you think of the Pope, in Assisi, sitting on a throne with a red carpet all dressed in white conducting a prayer service with every pagan religion on the face of the planet? Do you have a response to that? Still think the Pope wasn't promoting New Age? You don't think he could have been like the "false prophet" of the Book of Revelations? I'm not so sure.
3.Catholics call him the "Holy Father" This is what Yeshua says about that:
Matt. 23:9 “Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
4.Part of the "New Age" if you will infiltrating some Protestant churches is coming mainly from the Catholic mystics. I'm not excusing the Protestants. Bible study has been declining in recent years with the Seeker Movement and now the Emerging Church. There are pages and pages of documentation about the "Shift" to use the New Agers expression, that is taking place. There were many who promoted meditation akin to New Age channeling.
.
5.It is known that the Catholic church easily mixed with whatever native culture it was in, thus we have Christmas, or Saturnalia and Easter based on Ishtar. The Protestants followed the Catholics on this one so their protest could have gone just a little further.
Don't misunderstand me. I honor Yeshua's death & resurrection. I just do it the way that He did. He was the Passover Lamb, so I celebrate on God's calendar. I recognize that it was no accident that Yeshua died when the Lambs at the Temple were being slain. I don't accept the changes that were made in the Council of Nicea that were strictly for reasons of antisemitism.
6.Constantine mixed with the local of customs of the very pagan Roman Empire, including Mardi Gras which had its roots in human sacrifice. Well the Catholics did get rid of the human sacrifice part, so we have to give them credit. These things are historical fact. Do a little research on mistle toe, Christmas trees. Now do well meaning Christians celebrate Yeshua's birth...of course they do, but if many really understood the history they might not be as excited about it. I have friends who have rethought this issue..Even the Catholic Church acknowledges that they changed the Sabbath. You want to talk about arrogance. I think the Catholic Church won on this one.
7. Who has the right to change the Sabbath? Listen to what God says about the Sabbath..
“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the LORD.
Is 66:23
ALL MANKIND...that means even Catholics..why did the Catholic Church stop this....they wanted to separate from the Jews and claim that they have replaced Israel. That's replacement theology and that makes God a liar which HE is not. His promises are true and FOREVER!
8 To this very day there are symbols that the Catholic church uses that are tied to sun worship, not to mention the statues which are against God's commands about "graven images" What about the obelisk at the Vatican. What about the big sceptre with the sun on it.
God plainly told Ancient Israel to "not mix with the nations, not to do what they do and not to worship their gods". He called them to be holy and set apart. Every single time they were punished it was for turning away. Do we really think "in Christ" we have the freedom to do what God told Israel not to do? I don't think so...If we do this, we make an absolute mockery of His death and payment for our sins.
IF I am saying anything against the Scriptures, or against Yeshua or blaspheming in anyway, by all means go after me. Tear me apart, but as such, I have said nothing against the Bible, so you have no basis on which to attack me.
If you are so convinced of my heresy, or my manipulation or whatever other unkind comments you made about me, then prove it to me on the basis of the Bible.
Take a little time, think outside the box and reflect on what I am saying, even if it makes you uncomfortable. You might be surprised what you discover. One of the main reasons I am no longer a Catholic is because I couldn't accept the contradictions that I found within the RCC. After I was "born again" I tried going back to the Catholic Church and I quickly remembered why I left in the first place.
9 How can you "annul" a marriage. When a man and woman become one flesh they are just that. Marriage reflects our relationship with God Himself. The Bible says, "what God put together, let no man put asunder" This is just a convenient way of getting out of the "no divorce" teaching. Now, there are circumstances where marriages can be terminated, but that is called divorce.
10.Celibacy is not a Scriptural doctrine. Marriage is ordained by God. The Church set that up so that the riches of the priests would not be distributed to their families. You can't base a doctrine on one verse where Paul says,"it's good if you can be like me" another words Paul didn't have the distraction of a wife when he was getting beaten up and thrown in prison. Paul probably knew that he would have one heck of time and decided to stay focused. He also said,"IF YOUR FLESH BURNS, MARRY" He didn't institute a Catholic priesthood with this one sentence in Scripture.
There are rules of acceptable method of Bible interpretation. That is just unacceptable. The fruit of this centuries old rule is child molestation. There might still be some if ministers were allowed to marry because we live in a sick world, but I dare to say far less..
I will spare you my tirade on Mary worship ( the mother of heaven) praying to the saints, which is no where to be found in Scripture.
Yeshua taught His disciples how to pray and told them to pray to their Father in heaven, which the Catholics do after every 10 Hail Marys on their rosary beads, in between asking St so and so for this and that...Sorry if I offend you. I used to go see a priest in confession and come out like a robot and repeat 10 Hail Marys and 2 Our Fathers. Is that or is that not like the mantras of the Hindus.
WHERE in Scripture, One little verse are we told to pray to Mary or any saint???
On the contrary when Yohanan ( the apostle John) in the book of Revelations was about to worship and angel listen to what the angel says near the end of the Bible:
Rev. 22:9 But he *said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.”
We are not supposed to worship our fellow servants only God.
Deut. 6:13 Revere only the LORD your God and worship Him alone,
It doesn't get much clearer than that.
I ask questions, I pray, I seek God's face, I think. I want to make sure that what I believe lines up with what Scripture says, not what others say about Scripture.
Now I know I've stated some of these things in earlier posts, so excuse the repetition, but I've said a lot and can't remember every post and you still haven't addressed any of these issues. Remember, you don't have to be a scholar to answer them. I'm not a scholar. I'm just an ordinary person who loves the Word of God and makes it a priority in my life.
It's great that you study about the New Age, but if you don't know the Bible then you won't know what the Bible calls deception. If you are afraid to find out what the Bible says than that's another story. The Bible says there will be MANY false teachers. Paul said the spirit of anti-messiah was at work even in his day. He said that almost 2000 years ago.
Sorry that this post was a little long, but if you can't tell I am really intense about the things that are important to me..Yeshua and the Bible. I do agree by the way with earlier comments that said that people from every religion will get sucked into the deception. All the more reason why we should be students of God's Word, so we are not among them. His Word is a Lamp to our feet and a Light to our eyes.
If you want to discuss my concerns about the Pope's role with the UN or the new dialogues with the Muslims or something like that...it might be a useful discussion, not just a frontal assault on my character. Thanks!
Shalom & blessings in Yeshua,
Joyce
Dorothy,
Was responding to your comment that I don't have a name, so I am no longer nameless. Now you know the name of this horrible person that wanted to share with you about Yeshua. There's a lot worse things I could be doing if you really think hard about it. Now, I won't bother you anymore...you heard and it's your responsibility what you do with the information. My job is done, except I'll continue to keep you in my prayers..
All joking aside, I know how hard it is for Jews to hear this message, so I'm not against you even though you might be against me..
Shalom to you, in Yeshua,
Joyce
Rose
The only people at this point who might think the J person has any credibility or speaks for anyone but J are people who have an attitude already about Catholics, and you aren't going to change them.
Good heavens, now the J person talks as if he/she speaks for Jews.
I have a book titled, "The Myth of Hitler's Pope" by Rabbi David Dalin. The book points out how Pope Piux XII rescued Jews from the Nazis and that the myth makers came up with the myth as a way to attack traditional religion as a whole. Because the Catholic Church is organized and unified, it presents a more formidable foe to the culture changers than the Protestant community does.
Just let J stand on the podium with the baton in hand but with no discussion to lead and as you watch, recall the definition of the word hubris.
Dorothy
Dorothy,
That's why the Catholics helped Nazis to escape to South America after the Shoah.
...and I suppose the Catholics were innocent in the Inquisition too....There is also Bible believing blood all over Europe.. There is a museum with their instruments of torture. You really don't know what you are saying.
Lets be honest, with all the Catholic Church's influence and power they could have done a lot more to stop Hitler, if they wanted to. There were some individual Catholics that did risk their lives, but the Church itself was a big 0.
I have to say this is a first..a Jew defending the Catholic Church in the Shoah. I'll have to tell a friend whose father hunted Nazis. He'll get a good laugh out of that. If there is another Shoah in Europe, I don't think the Church will do anymore than they did in the past.
Remember John Paul kissed the Quran. I suppose you think that's okay too?
I guess I'll just be "J" again.
one more thing. Please don't misquote me. I don't have an attitude about Catholics, but about the Catholic church. I have news for you. I know lots of Catholics themselves who don't like their own Church.
J
J,
As a good Christian I am sure you are familiar with the parable that talks about being the first to cast a stone.
Dorothy
Dorothy,
I'm not a Christian...I'm a Jew. The context of the parable was a woman caught in adultery who was "set up" so Yeshua could be caught "not fulfilling Torah" because these phony religious leaders calculated that He would not agree to stone her. Because He was God, He saw their hearts and knew that they had all done something similar. There are even theologians who speculate that when He bent down He wrote the names of the women they committed adultery with in the dirt. It was in that context that He said, "now let he who has not sinned cast the first stone" .
Dorothy, I am really happy to hear you quoting from the parables of Yeshua. Now, why don't you get a copy of the complete Scriptures if you don't have them and read the stories for yourself. It's great that you know that, but it has nothing to do with the history of the Catholic Church.
I don't think God was pleased when the RCC sat by as His people, many from my family, were shot unmercifully, put in gas chambers and ovens. I don't think God was very pleased when not only did priests molest children, but then the people over them hid them by switching them to another parish.
I don't think that God was happy when Jews were forced to covert to Catholicism or be killed in the Inquistion. I don't believe the meaning of that verse is that we are supposed to sit by quietly and say nothing when we see these things have happened.
Now, the Muslims train their little children to explode themselves so they can go to paradise and drink wine without a hangover and have 70 virgins and save 10 members of their family. I suppose you would be equally as charitable towards Yasser Arafat, or Hamas, or Nasserellah in Lebanon or Ahmedinajad in Iran....They are using the same sources of racism and hatred to turn their people against the Jews, like "the Protocals of the Elders of Zion" Should we just let "he who has sinned cast the first stone".
No, Dorothy, I am not a Christian. I have Jewish blood running through my veins and I observe Torah and I just happen to love my Jewish Mashiach , Yeshua. Maybe that makes you a little uncomfortable and I can understand, but lets not revise history or distort Yeshua's parables to take a shot at me...That's not kosher.
Shalom,
Joyce
Dorothy,
Thank for your reassuring, incisive post and the reference to The Myth of Hitler's Pope. I haven't read the book but I did hear Rabbi Dalin interviewed a few years. He is highly regarded by Catholics of serious intellectual and moral bent whom I respect (it's a case of "birds of a feather" I think).
I own a book called Rescuers: Portraits of Moral Courage in the Holocaust (authors Gay Block and Malka Drucker) which I purchased several years ago at the Harold Washington Library in conjunction with a photographic exhibit of same (you may have travelled up from the South Side to attend this exhibit yourself). The book contains portraits and personal accounts of individuals who hid Jews during the Holocaust who are now honored as the "Righteous Among the Nations" at Yad Vashem. It's a book I have gone back to again over the years but only in small doses. The horror of it all and the wonder of it all (as represented by the handful of rescuers portrayed in the book) is too much to bear.
Last year the BBC aired a documentary about people who hid Jewish children during the Holocaust-- a few of the names and faces I recognised from the Block and Drucker book. The last segment before the credits rolled was an excerpt from an interview with one of the hidden children (now a grown man living in Israel) who was rescued if I remember correctly by a married couple who had put their own children in danger by assisting the man and his brother. He said something to the effect of, "I have asked myself what I would have done--what courage I would have shown--if I had been in their circumstances, and the answer is, quite simply, 'I do not know'."
I am always amazed when I listen to some Christians go on and on and on about the joys of Jesus's saving love in their life that the Bible compels them to share with you but they fail to mention evil (sin) -- which Flannery O'Connor described as "not only a problem to be solved but a mystery to be lived." Is it a coincidence that at the same time, they also fail to perceive the listener as separate from themselves?
One of the key objectives of the New Age movement as I see it is the eradication of the notion of sin -- an objective that is cultural and spiritual, not political or economic. I'll leave that topic for another day...
Apolgies for the elliptical digression,
Rose
J,
At this point you are making Messianic Jews, Christians and Jews look bad. Don't you have some Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, American Indian, Taoist, atheist, agnostic, New Age and voodoo practicing blood relatives so that you can also help to make those groups look bad? At the very least it would make for entertaining reading. At this point you are getting very repititious.
If I attempted to analyze your reactions as you've attempted to analyze mine, I would say you have put your heart and mind into your decision to become a Messianic Jewish follower and cannot stand the thought you might be wrong.
In your mind anyone who doesn't think as you do must be wrong so that you can feel completely right.
Dorothy
Go tell it on the mountain "J"
Over the hills and everywhere.
Go tell it on the mountain
that Jesus Christ is born.
Dorothy
As always you shoot first and
ask questions after.
...Ready...Fire!...Aim !
You're a character assassin
with a whole lot of animosity.
Paul
Paul, I must be a very bad asassin. You're still here as is J. Maybe you've come back from the dead. Who could tell.
Just kidding around of course. Don't feed me straight lines.
Dorothy
J, "The battle you have engaged may be fruitless. . ." Remember that I told you this? For some, you have become a "play thing." It is a sad thing to watch. Unsolicited advise: glean what you can from the information posted here and be glad that you have preached and have encouraged;
"pearls before swine."
Setterman
J,
You haven't worn me out. I will admit ,though, my scrolling finger is in great shape now. Thank you... and hang in there bud...
HK
No offense taken Setterman. I just consider the sources.
Dorothy
Dorothy,
Hey, I feel like we're old friends now....I'm not worried about making Messianic Jews and Christians look bad. Nor do I have any questions about my life decision to follow Yeshua.
My life, since following Him has only gotten better and better. I have peace and joy of knowing that my sins are forgiven. I know that it is not me who lives, but Yeshua who lives in me, to quote Rav Paul. My old identity I probably would have found some nasty comments to respond to you with, but Yeshua is my defense, so I don't have to retaliate. I can forgive you because Yeshua has forgiven me. Like the Psalmist said," O how I love your Torah, it is my meditation all the day".
No, Dorothy, I know what it is to be without Yeshua and with Him. I have had many miracles in my life, more than I can even count.
Our Abba Father is gracious and kind and merciful to me, and therefore I can be merciful to others...In spite of whatever you think of me, all I think of you as someone doesn't know the love of Yeshua and that only makes me feel sad for you, but I have confidence one day you will. Your anger doesn't put me off, because I used to be angry with people who shared the gospel with me before I knew Yeshua...That's Satan's plan. If he can just keep you believing that you are right, then you never have to consider the claims of the Bible. I am not put off or intimidated. I have seen people much more stubborn than you ( including myself) come to know Yeshua. I have seen former Muslims come to know Yeshua, I have seen former occultists come to see Yeshua.
I spent hours with a Jewish women who was into all sorts of occultism, who was praying and confessing and asking Yeshua to cleanse her from her sins. To see the joy and freedom she had is so amazing! I have seen people who were into witchcraft and all kinds of sorcery be set free by the power of the atoning work of Yeshua.
You see, my faith is a reality, it is not just theory. It's not just in books. Yeshua has given me life and given it to me abundently. I obey His Torah, not to earn my salvation. I already have that by faith, but because I love Him. If there is something you want to criticize in that, all I can say is "try it you'll like it"
We are all sinners who fall short of the Glory of God, but in Messiah Yeshua we can have our relationship with God restored. It's not the mere fact of being a Jew that gives us relationship. Remember the generation of Israel that perished in the Wilderness. They didn't believe and never entered the Promised Land.
Much love in Yeshua,
Joyce
As for the others who have responded, Setterman, Paul, HK 91 and all the other kind comments I got. Thanks.
1. A few months ago a few folks was asking about the existince of concentration camps in the U.S. Researcher Kathleen Keating has touched in this a bit over the years, and she has recently made available a 2004 interview about this topic.
I listened to the interview when it originally aired -- I was not overly impressed with the interviewee, but there is still a lot of interesting information that will get one thinking.
Kathleen Keating is, in my estimation, a great researcher and interviewer -- like Constance she is congenitally incapable of conducting a dull interview regardless of the topic or guest at hand.
http://www.kathleenkeating.com/melissa122804.mp3
2. Well done last night Rudi on a very successful show -- you are a very good at presenting your research in a radio show format and the chemistry between you and Constance was outstanding.
Regards,
Rose
Apologies -- the above post was meant for a newer thread and has been copied there.
Rose
interesting photos:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
To anonymous 12:45 pm,
Noticed your post of Popes.
"Complete list of all the Popes of the Catholic Church from 32 AD (depending on how the calendar was calculated) up to the present time:
1) Peter (32-67)
2) Linus (67-76)
3) Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
4) Clement I (88-97) ..."
Some thoughts on just this partial of the list.
In the book of The Acts of the Apostles, written by Luke c.A.D. 60,and focusing on the first 8 chapters of Acts which covers approximately 10 years after the Resurrection, there is no mention of any word in the Greek text that even remotely terms or refers to "Pope" let alone state that Peter is such. Neither is there any indication of an "Organization" called a "Church", with the respect to any type of "clergy" systematized to an organizational equivalent to that of what exists in the RCC today.
Peter writes 2 books of Scripture dated c. A.D.65 for I Pet., and c.A.D. 66 for II Pet. No "Pope" terms or claim for such by Peter, not to mention no references for the creation of a clergy system, nor for the establishment of a "Church" institutionalized.
The Apostle John writes 3 letters of scripture, all 3 c.A.D. 90-95, no reference to a "Pope" and if my math is correct per the years, the time frame of the first 4 "Popes" has been spanned.
And the Apostle Paul in Gal. chapter 2 gives an account of confronting Peter on a matter of his hypocrisy in separating from the Gentile believers, to a preference for isolating himself with a contingent of Jews from Jerusalem when at Antioch (2:11-14), some difficult facts to explore if one is supposed to be a "Pope". The date for that instance in Gal 2 is approx 25 years after the Resurrection.
Just a few thoughts on how your list measures up to the Scriptures with consideration to time lines, to aid in the historical perspective.
Having explored the first four, I think the rest on the list fare no better.
In closing perhaps you might consider Hebrews 1:1-3 ("(1 At sundry times and in divers manners God spake in the old time to our fathers by the Prophets,
2 In these last days he hath spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath made heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds,
3 Who being the brightness of the glory, and the engraved form of his person, and bearing up all things by his mighty word, hath by himself purged our sins, and sitteth at the right hand of the Majesty in the highest places," (Geneva Bible 1599). God has replaced a "religious system" with a Person. His Son. It is up to us to, by faith, enter into a relationship with Him, rituals and religion have no relevance in the relationship, only faith does.
Calvary changed everything.
Thank you for posting the list.
HK
Well said HK.
Let us all be Bereans, so that we will be able to give all men ( and women obviously) the reason for the hope that lies in us.
Blessings in Yeshua,
Joyce
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