Thursday, September 15, 2011

A PERFECT STORM?

Javier Solana, Ph.D.
This is from Haaretz.com, an Israeli news service.  Read it prayerfully and carefully:

Bernard Kouchner, M.D.
"The picture is clearing up. The Arab spring is an Arab disaster. In the coming years there will be no democracy in Egypt. The choice  in Egypt will be either chaos , Islamic dictatorship or military dictatorship. I n the coming years there will be no democracy in Syria. The choice in Syria will be either a bloodbath, an Alawite dictatorship or a Sunni dictatorship. In the coming years there will be no democracy in Jordan. The choice in Jordan will be either weakened Hashemites, the Muslim Brotherhood or Palestinians.  In the coming years there will be no democ racy in Libya. There the choice will be disintegration, disorder or renewed despotism. Perhaps in Tunis ia a real change for the better will occur.
But the bottom line of the Arab spring is that the lives of hundreds of millions of Arabs will be worse. More poverty, more crime, more fear in the streets.  More oppression of women, more persecution of minorities , more hatred of the West.
Monarchies like Saudi Arabia, which thwarted the Arab spring - are now emerging as responsible states . I n contrast, the republic s defeated by the Arab spring are turning one after the other into failed states. They are tainted with fanaticism, spreading misery and c reating unprecedented instability.
The picture is clearing up. The Palestinian September is an Israeli-Palestinian disaster. The Palestinian September was conceived by two European statesmen - Bernard Kouchner and Javier Solana. Those two naive men figured if they grant international sponsorship to Salam Fayyad's Palestinian-state plan, they would force Israel to make a final-status arrangement.But the Israelis did not cave in to the pressure. The Palestinians fell in love with the plan.
The train left the station. Now, when everyone understands the train is racing to the abyss, nobody can stop it. On September 20 the General Assembly debate will begin. At the beginning of October the assembly is likely to adopt a destructive resolution. Presumably Israel will take unilateral retaliation measures and the Palestinians will go the The Hague.
You may read the entire article by Ari Shavit by clicking here:

Tonight on MY PERSPECTIVE internet radio at www.themicroeffect.com,  I will be interviewing Dr. Christopher Glenn Fichtner, M.D.  He is the author of "Cannabinomics, The Marijuana Policy Tipping Point."  Please join us and call in with your questions and comments.

Stay tuned!

CONSTANCE
Comments: 1 – 200 of 235 Newer› Newest»
As September moves on slowly slowly towards these ominous dates, we wait in anticipation of more prophecy being fulfilled till finally and at last, when her back is up against the wall literally; after Damascus is a smoke stack and all around her looks impossible - Israel will welcome her Messiah! Can't wait for that day.
 
Sharon down under in New Zealand (at least that's how I interpret the screen name) is referring to the yet unfulfilled prophecy, "Damascus shall be a heap . . ."

Isaiah 17:1.

Constance
 
Breaking news:

6.0 earthquake in Caribbean waters between Cuba and Jamaica, approximately 3 hours ago.

Constance
 
From COMMENTARY MAGAZINE's website: "A Palestinian Trainwreck made in Europe." Solana's role is major discussion here. It says Ari Shalit article is correct.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/09/15/palestinians-european-union-un/

or

http://tinyurl.com/3cscxs8

Constance
 
From that COMMENTARY MAGAZINE article:

But worse than the fact that Europe created this “train wreck” is the fact that, as Nicole Horrelt notes in today’s Jerusalem Post, it did so in violation of an agreement the EU itself had signed as a witness: the 1995 Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement, a cornerstone of the Oslo process, which states explicitly that “Neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations.” Needless to say, UN recognition of a Palestinian state in those territories would be a radical change in their status.

Basically, here’s what happened: The EU simply wanted Israel to capitulate. Like the Palestinians, it thinks Israel should withdraw to the 1967 lines and cede East Jerusalem; like the Palestinians, it opposes Israel’s demands for defensible borders and recognition as a Jewish state. But Israel saw the Oslo process as a negotiation that required both sides to compromise, and it has thus far refused to capitulate completely on these issues. So, like any spoiled child, when Europe saw that its Oslo toy wasn’t working the way it wanted, it decided to smash it.

And now, Israelis and Palestinians alike are going to pay the price for Europe’s petulance.


http://tinyurl.com/3cscxs8

Constance
 
Just in on my google alerts that there was just another very powerful earthquake off the coast of northern Japan: 6.2 mw.

Constance
 
Considering these events I'm going to
fast and pray, for unsaved loved ones,
for Jerusalem, and to have oil in my
lamp, in the week leading up to
Trumpets, a.k.a. Rosh Hashana.

I've only recently, with God's help,
been able to rid myself of what
could have been considered a
seducing spirit.

Hallelujah.
 
God bless you, Paul.

Thanks for sharing with us.
 
Yes, Constance, you got that right, I am way down under you in NZ! My word, things are moving along at a pace. Europe can't help herself in being partner to fulfilling Joel 3:1-3 especially "...They have also divided up My land. They have cast lots for My people ..." - expect more earthquakes and hurricanes!
Israel is going to be sqeezed more as that ominous vote in the UN does exactly what Joel says. Palestine already HAS A STATE and people ignore that fact. It was given in 1922 when Churchill was the Colonial Secretary. They called it TRANS JORDAN. Arafat wanted it and now the world conveniently forgets that but they now expect Israel to give away all her land.
Button up there is a rocky road ahead as the nations threaten HIS land!
 
Constance:

Please explain to everyone what "Arab Spring" means.

Thank you,
 
7.2 MAG EARTHQUAKE SHAKES FIJI

http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap
/2011091
5/ap_on_re_as/as_fiji_earthquake
 
Susanna, I was just about to post the same thing! Also, things are shaking in the Seattle area (Vancouver Island)--came home from there just yesterday.
 
"Arab Spring" was what CBS 60 Minutes accurately called the "New Age Revolution." It was the revolutions and chaos sweeping Arab countries that started in Tunisia, then spread to Egypt, Algeria, Libya, Jordan, and elsewhere." Also, the riots and huge demonstrations in Israel have been termed "theaters" by New Age writers such as Rene Wadlow.

Constance
 
We couldn't make contact with Dr. Fichtner for the scheduled interview, but it turned out to be just as well as my power went out half way through the show. Our power came back on about 11:30 p.m.

What a night and one of our two dogs was very sick as well. Turned out he got ahold of some chocolate and all I can say is keep chocolate from your dogs -- at all costs!

He's okay now and back to chasing our cat.

Constance
 
It feels alot like Psalm 2.

RonC
 
I don't get all this pro-Israel sentiment. Until they accept Jesus and mend their ways, they are wrong.
 
So glad to hear that your dog is OK, Constance.

Yes, it's very important to keep chocolate out of the reach of pets.

Although I have read that a single bar of chocolate will not harm or kill a dog...that a dog would have to ingest quite a bit of chocolate to feel any negative effects.

It's the caffeine and bromethalin in chocolate that is poisonous...with dark chocolate being the most toxic since it contains a high amount of caffeine and bromethalin. Milk chocolate and white chocolate have lower amounts of caffeine.

Actually, the most toxic dangers to pets in a home are things like rat poison, household cleaners and disinfectants.
 
RonC,
Yes, why do the heathen rage ?
Why do they imagine a vain thing?
Why do the kings of the earth and the
leaders conspire together to lick
God out of all discourse and kick
The Lord out of all planning, and
discussion, and education and
civil life ?
Why does the heathen Al Gore
insist, ( even though he's not
a scientist ), that his own personal
hypothesis is the only rational
explanation for natural things ?
Answer: Because the whole hoax
is making him wildly rich, and
because the heathen "Report From
Iron Mountain" concluded that
we need to come up with a new
global enemy to fight against,
which will allow the heathen
kings and leaders (elite) to
maintain their power over the
people and tax tax tax them all.

All this despite the fact that
hundreds of world class scientists
say that Al Gore himself is a major
source of hot greenhouse gases:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/09/14/nobel-prize-winning-physicist-resigns-from-top-physics-group-over-global/?test=latestnews
 
From unsealed.org

Signs
Palestinians to seek statehood in the U.N.

Netanyahu to speak at U.N. before Palestinan bid for statehood

Israeli embassy evacuated in Jordan

Israeli embassy evacuated in Egypt

Palestinian mass demonstrations planned

Matthew 16:2-3

He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ 3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.
 
from raptureready.com


Egypt declares Camp David accords with Israel 'not a sacred thing'
 
Constance,

I'm glad your dog is OK after eating your chocolate; but, I tell ya don't no one eat MY chocolate!

All,

I HAVE to say this as I noticed it right away. I find the photo of Solana interesting with the stars around his head a la Mary. Reminds me of some of the photos of Obama pre-election.
 
Apparently there have been 14 earthquakes greater than 6.0 magnitude in the past 14 days:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BALOHIFxyM

With one more today (9/16/2011): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPNRi-W1wj4

making it 15 6.0+ magnitude earthquakes in the past 15 days.

Nick
 
Anonymous 9:40 P.M.

Isn't Seattle (Vancouver Island) near some old volcanoes?
 
Received from Daneen: Nigel Farage:
"Greece Under Commission-ECB-IMF Dictatorship, September 14, 2011, at:
http://tinyurl.com/6fx9d9n
 
Well, my husband's delivered New York Times headlines are telling:

"PALESTINIANS SET BID FOR U.N. SEAT; A CLASH WITH U.S. AMERICAN EFFORTS FAIL"

"IN POLL, SUPPORT FOR OBAMA SLIPS AMONG BASE"

"ADVICE ON DEBT? EUROPE SUGGESTS U.S. CAN KEEP IT" (EU anger at USA)

"LIBYA COUNTS MORE MARTYRS THAN BODIES" (Libyan body count greatly exaggerated per article)

etc., etc., etc.

Constance
 
Susanna,

Yes , you are right. Last week the scientists proved that the Axial volcano erupted in April and that the area has become very unstable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8Cx9rLiY4&feature=player_embedded

I don't think they are talking much about this in the Washington area though. Anyone know? I miss OMOTS.
 
I.H.T. Op-Ed Contributor

Ten Reasons for a European 'Yes'

By MARTTI AHTISAARI

AND

JAVIER SOLANA

Published: September 16, 2011


It is not often that Europe has the chance to play a pivotal role on the world stage. (cont'd)

* * *

http://tinyurl.com/6gqsa5w

or

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/opinion/17iht-edahtisaari17.html?_r=1

Thanks to Adamantine for the link.
 
George Soros: "So there is no alternative but to create the missing component: a European treasury with the power to tax and, therefore, to borrow."

http://tinyurl.com/3cqbfl3

or

http://www.euractiv.com/euro-finance/thinking-unthinkable-europe-analysis-507698
 
The other day Dorothy sent me an email on how Hillary is to replace Obama in 2012. She posted the following articles (by the way if you are not on her email list you should be)

http://tinyurl.com/3l8pmnl

http://tinyurl.com/3vbxcp9

In response to this I wrote back to her:

On the Republican side of the coin you have several that are involved in the New Age as well. This includes Rick Perry, Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, and most likely Ron Paul as well. I haven't looked heavily into the other candidates.

There is a great paradigm shift happening in the Christian community on the definition of a Christian. This has been going on since Glenn Beck got popular. The definition of "religious right" is also changing at the same time.

The same techniques and strategies that the New Age have used in other places are now taking place in the church. On the strategy side, in reference to Dominiionism, those who have been called out have the same talking points. The first was to question and say they don't even know what Dominionism is (while espousing its core beliefs). Now they have started in on the attack mode. Attacking those who are calling them out. They are also using group consensus.

The group consensus and delphi technique are being used heavily in a lot of churches to expose the "fundamentalist" as the problem. The people who won't change. I am not talking about the color of the carpet but Biblical issues that are at the core of what use to be called Christianity.

It is so overwhelming to see this all happening. Especially when it seems like you feel like you are one of the ones who are seeing it.
 
(continued)
Then in a separate email I wrote the following:

Not sure if I could share anything new to you on Newt. His new age connections have been documented on Connie's blog. That is where I got that.

With the others, it is like you have described the new age before, as a wheel with many spokes. Dominionism is one of these spokes. Those people are heavily involved in the Perry campaign. At the very least they are using each other for their individual goals. I have found out David Barton is involved in Dominionism as well. He is a very big supporter of Perry. http://tinyurl.com/3d9dj6s
http://tinyurl.com/3ntgsp7
http://tinyurl.com/44b9ur6

Here is an article about Bauchmann having ties as well. I think I saw things in 2008 that said Palin had ties to them.

http://tinyurl.com/3cqrteu

Mormonism is another spoke I believe. This is one of the best link I have found on Romney. http://tinyurl.com/3lb78ub

"This "Kingdom of God" is the actual Mormon Theocracy that will take over the U.S. government when the Constitution of the United States "hangs by a thread" and the nation is 'saved' by the Mormon Brethren, the LDS spiritual leaders. The prophet and the apostles and key Mormons in high positions, such as Mitt Romney sitting in the Oval Office. The money pouring into his campaign isn't accidental. It is to fulfill prophecy."

This sounds a lot like Dominionism to me. It just has a Mormon slant.

Also, another component of the Mormon religion is that you will eventually become a god and have your own planet. The "becoming a god" says new age to me.

Ron Paul is the trickiest to me. He almost has to be new age. Not only does he have antisemite views, he is too perfect on his talking points. What I mean by this is that Paul says all these things that are different from all the other candidates. Things that the people that consider themselves awake can support. I have seen some circumstantial things that he is a Freemason. That would also make him have another New Age connection. Even if Paul is not new age, you can bet that he will be used to further the agenda of the New Age.

The New Age, in my mind, has to control all possibilities so that the can do what they want. That is why you are seeing an increase of them and their techniques in the Christian churches. As a whole Christians have been a thorn in the side of the New Age Movement. And 50 years even 25 years ago those who were connected to the New Age were easily spotted now not so much.

As you know the New Age uses the same tactics as they have done before just perfected them. The same tactics that had been used with Christians to split over Evolution, women preachers, and support of homosexuals, are now being used with what defines a Christian.

On a side note, we had a speaker at our church from Israel who told us that in Israel true Christians don't say they are Christians but Believers in Christ. There had to be a distinction because of the negative things that "Christians" were doing. This is scary to me. That what is being done to fundamentalist Islam will be done to those who are fundamentalist Christian. Even thought we are not violent or have that much of a history of being violent. There are already stories of tying us to violence such as the Oklahoma City bombing, what happened in Norway, not to mention the new watch lists. These things are writing on the wall to me. Not many Christians are preparing for this aspect. Very few believe it will be bad for them before the Rapture. IMHO I think they are wrong.
 
Anonymous 12:13P.M.

More on the Axial volcano eruption.

Video at following link is a BBC production.

Underwater Volcanic Eruption Off The Coast Of Oregon Stuns Scientists

An underwater volcano erupted in April off the coast of Oregon, stunning even the scientists that predicted it.

The volcano, which began spewing lava as thick as 12 feet, was actually expected to erupt between 2011 and 2014, according to LiveScience. The Axial Volcano first erupted in 1998 but, thanks to a complicated system measuring devices that keep tabs on minute changes in the area, scientists were able to create a range of dates into which they felt a new eruption might fall
....read more....

http://www.aol.com/2011/08/
10/underwater-volcanic-eruption
-oregon_n_923499.html
_____________________________

Undersea Volcano Erupts, Just As Predicted
August 10, 2011

http://www.redorbit.com/news/
science/
2093702/undersea_volcano_erupts_just
_as_predicted
 
Dawn,

What have you heard about Rick Santorum? Do you think he is for real?
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8771192/Libya-Tony-Blair-and-Col-Gaddafis-secret-meetings.htmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8771192/Libya-Tony-Blair-and-Col-Gaddafis-secret-meetings.htmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8771192/Libya-Tony-Blair-and-Col-Gaddafis-secret-meetings.html
 
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/17/technology/occupy_wall_street/?hpt=hp_t2
Hundreds of protesters descend to 'Occupy Wall Street'


Modeled on the "Arab Spring" uprisings that swept through Egypt, Tunisia, Syria and other countries this year, Occupy Wall Street is a "leaderless resistance movement" orchestrated through Twitter, Facebook and other social media tools. The Twitter hashtags #OccupyWallStreet and #TakeWallStreet lit up Saturday with coordination messages and solidarity tweets. (See CNNMoney's coverage in photos and tweets.)

"It takes a lot to rise up and reform the global economic system," Lasn says. "And maybe this time we fail. But if we do, we're just setting the tone for the next revolution."
 
"The first reason why the E.U. 27 should vote 'yes'..."

http://tinyurl.com/6gqsa5w

or

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/opinion/17iht-edahtisaari17.html?_r=1


* * *

Chris Perver writes:

"In reality, voting for the establishment of a Palestinian state would not necessarily keep the two-state solution alive, for as we discussed, establishing a state within the 1967 borders does not imply that Palestinians are actually recognizing Israel's right to exist. They are simply acknowledging the fact of its existence and will continue to call for Israel's complete destruction. Hamas and Fatah do not recognize Israel's right to exist, and still seek the liberation of all 'Palestine'. The Hamas charter states, 'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it' (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory). (cont'd)"

http://www.prophecynews.co.uk/
 
"Using a specialized digital program I slowly removed layer after layer to reveal the number for Barack Obama’s certificate. After hours of careful work, the number was revealed:

666*

* The number of the beast in the Book of Revelation.

What a relief it was to finally find out that Obama is only the Antichrist – not some Kenyan-born Muslim!"


http://kh2hb.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/barack-obamas-birth-certificate-revealed-the-birthers-were-right/

And don't forget the 666 lottery results when he was elected... oh and his zip-code as Senator was ... yep ... 666!
 
Wow! Anonymous at 3:17. You've done what no one has ever done. But you are wrong. The real antichrist--Spongebob Squarepants.
 
Hillary Clinton doesn't even have a campaign. How could she just replace Obama? She has to get elected first. The source may have been forwarded from Dorothy whoever, but it's nonsense. I know you hate Barack Obama, but dang--don't you have the ability to think for yourself. There are still people who believe they saw Elvis at a restaurant dining with Marilyn Monroe. Just because someone swears the moon is made of cheese, doesn't mean it is--even if that person hates Barack Obama.
 
Anon at 6:12 PM.... as in Spongebob Squarepants Solana?
 
Re: Dick Cheney's comment about Hillary replacing Obama....

CBS's Bob Schieffer's interview with Bill Cinton on Sunday, September 18th:

Former President Bill Clinton is glad former Vice President Dick Cheney approves of his wife's performance as President Obama's top diplomat, but he thinks the glowing grade may be more about politics than a wish for her to replace her boss.

"You know, I'm very proud of her, and so I'm always gratified whenever anyone says anything nice about her," Mr. Clinton said when asked about Cheney's recent comment that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is the most competent member of the Obama administration and would make a stronger candidate for the Democrats than Mr. Obama in 2012.

"But I also have a high regard for the Vice President Cheney's political skills," Mr. Clinton told host Bob Schieffer, "and I think he, by saying something nice about her in the way that he did it, knew that it might cause a little trouble."

Mr. Clinton did not take the bait.

"I don't want to help him succeed in his political strategy, but I admire that he's still out there hitting the ball," Mr. Clinton said.
 
What a marvel. Devvy Kidd at News With Views is now promoting Roy Masters. Has everybody lost his/her mind?
 
Unfortunately, Paul Walters is also a little bit seduced by Roy Walters. We have had several very long talks about it. Roy Masters claims to be "the world's only perfect man." He is in a class with himself and Rev. Moon!

Constance
 
Others seduced by Roy Master include Sam Blumenfeld. We had arguments about him and Rushdoony in the 1990's when he was in Detroit for speaking engagements.

Constance
 
David Barton is definitely part of the Gary North / Rushdoony and a whole host of others who should know better "Dominion" crowd.

Constance
 
Dorothy likes the New Oxford Review. This morning, my email news update from them showed that they like and recommend my Detroit area Catholic friend, Michael Voris, of whom Susanna has mixed feelings.

Interesting.

Constance
 
Constance, I'd like to know what I can do besides prayer to convince my daughter that New Age Philosophy is Occult related. She apparently has been involved in this since high school years and is now in her 40's. Have wondered at her strange behavior for some time. All sorts of evidence in her apartment like angels, statues, strange quotes, etc. She will not listen to me nor read anything I ask her to. TNX Sue
 
Just thought this would be interesting to look into. Looks like the pathway to a one world government. Where have I been? The Clinton Global Initiative started back in 2005!
http://www.clintonglobalinitiative.org/
 
Susanna,

I haven't seen any ties to dominionism with Santorum. The fact that he doesn't get much press is probably a good sign for him. I like his stands against Islam.

And to Anon 6:20 I don't hate anybody. I pray for the president. Do I think he is leading the country down the wrong path? yes.

People are upset with Obama that are on the right and the left.
 
Just thought this would be interesting to look into. Looks like the pathway to a one world government. Where have I been? The Clinton Global Initiative started back in 2005!

http://www.clintonglobalinitiative.org/
 
to anom.@2:14pm, tell her to read the hidden dangers of the rainbow, Constances first book. That should solve her problem. wishin' you the best of God's grace on this for your daughter! tony in vt.
 
Dawn,

Thanks. I agree that the fact that Rick Santorum doesn't get much press is probably a good sign for him.

There is another Republican debate Thursday evening. Correct me if I am mistaken, but I think Fox News is broadcasting it.
 
Constance,

Michael Voris is generally regarded as a "Catholic dominionist."

Michael Voris may mean well, and he is most likely a very good man, but whenever a "prophetic voice" - whether Catholic or Protestant - begins to wax political, a red flag should go up - if only because it was Our Lord Himself who unequivocally stated in the Bible "my kingdom is not of this world." John 18:36

Interestingly, with regard to New World Order schemes, it was former communist David Horowitz who so profoundly summed things up on the Glenn Beck radio talk show just the other day:

When God expelled us from the Garden of Eden he put an angel with a flaming sword at the gate to prevent us from returning. We are the problem, not society. Society is just a reflection of who we are. We are the problem, and we can’t fix it. If you understand that, then you are a conservative. If you think that the human problem can be fixed by other human beings then you’re a leftist and dangerous.
 
To anonymous 12:13 p.m.--
Just returned from the Seattle area and was myself surprised that little was mentioned about the nearby earthquake. I was there when it happened, but did not feel anything. I thought it quite strange.
 
Well, as Dominionists, both Catholic and Protestant go, Michael Voris is a nice guy! The HIDDEN DANGERS of having such as local neighbors.

Constance
 
Well, as Dominionists, both Catholic and Protestant go, Michael Voris is a nice guy! The HIDDEN DANGERS of having such as local neighbors.

Constance
 
Well, as Dominionists, both Catholic and Protestant go, Michael Voris is a nice guy! The HIDDEN DANGERS of having such as local neighbors.

Let me put it this way: I would buy a used car from Michael Voris. Never would I buy one from Gary North!

Constance
 
Sorry, I meant to come back and comment on the volcanos, but I went into labor early (not too early) and we welcomed a baby girl to our home.

Washington has 5 volcanos- the most recently active being Mt St helens, but we're constantly being warned where I live about Mt. Rainier. It's not just for volcanic eruptions, but also for lahars- mudslides that can happen at anytime due to the instability of the rock in the mountain.

You're right, we in the Seattle area haven't heard much if any of the axial volcano in Oregon- I watch for news on things like that and I certainly was surprised. The news on the earthquakes up on Vancouver Island was sparse, but it's a thinly populated area and they were not a widely felt earthquakes even for their size.

~Leana
 
Have any of you seen this?

Levi's controversial and disturbing "Go Forth" ad campaign (aired during last night's Monday night football game)

http://tinyurl.com/5tx95ya
 
Congratulations, Leana on the birth of your new baby girl!!!

(Wow, more than just volcanoes are 'erupting' in the Seattle area, huh?)
 
3 of 10 WEU Nations (aka "the 10", aka the modified Brussels Treaty Powers) are Pro-Israel.

"Signatories also come from pro-Israeli countries Germany, Italy and the Netherlands (cont'd)"

http://euobserver.com/24/113676
 
The 10 nations:

http://tinyurl.com/3jyqkyl

or

http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/page/the-10-nations/
 
Daniel 7:8.
 
Natural Disasters | 20.09.2011

Scientists on trial for failing to predict devastating L'Aquila earthquake


A group of scientists have been put on trial on manslaughter charges for not sufficiently warning residents of L'Aquila, Italy of the risk of a major temblor ahead of the 2009 earthquake that killed more than 300 people. (cont'd)

* * *

http://tinyurl.com/3puq8m9

or

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15402160,00.html

May God have mercy.
 
CONGRATULATIONS LEANA!!!!!
 
Thanks Anon 12:00 and Susanna!

Leana
 
Constance,

I'd like to thank you for your work ... in particular "The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow." I would be interested to know your opinion regardomg the Papacy and the role it may play in the creation, etc. of a One World Religion.

Thank you.
 
Ray B,

I am sure Constance will respond to you.

It's the Protestant churches and Apostate Catholics that are adopting the pansexualist movement, very crucial to the One World Relgiion.

The Papacy is too old-fashioned for the New Age.

"Now in this Aquarian Age it is time, not simply for her power to return but for her power to co-join with the presence of the Maitreya, of the Father God in the world and within the hearts of men and women within the planet, so together they may birth the androgyny of the future race of men and women that will return to the Divine Source by raising Earth to heaven and co-joining the two as one."

http://www.returnofthechrist.org.uk/magdalene-flame/the-magdalene-flame.html


Savvy
 
Regarding the Japanese 9.0M quake and subsequent tsunami and nuclear meltdown I found this item most interesting -
http://www.whale.to/b/vialls3.html
 
Leana,

CONGRATULATIONS ON THE NEW ADDITION TO YOUR HOME!!! Baby or grandbaby?

Constance
 
Dear Ray:

There have been New Age factions within the Catholic Church. Matthew Fox was a notable one. He was excommunicated in 1993 and joined up thereafter with the Episcopalians, although Catholic renegade groups still employ him as a speaker. There has been organized opposition to the New Age Movement within the Catholic Church. Officially, the New Age theorists (Alice Bailey, Blavatsky) had a position of extreme hatred for the Catholic Church, as well as Jews and fundamentalist Protestants.

Constance
 
Leana,

What I get from reading from the bottom up. Congratulations on the birth of your new daughter. I'm jealous!

Constance
 
Anyone interested,

This seems to be the next big New Age social movement. Lots of big players involved with HUGE money backing it.

http://thrivemovement.com/
 
WOW! JD,

This is so enticing. And they are really zeroing in on buzz words and concepts of the more right wing conspiracy theorists. For example, they target the Federal Reserve and the medical industry.

With Deepak Chopra, Barbara Marx Hubbard, et al behind it, its bound to make a splash.

I also noted that the banner shows a woman with the words "The World is Waking Up" written across her forehead. Many prophetic clues here.

May God protect the elect--shorten the days--even so come, Lord Jesus!
 
Thank you Constance!

Leana
 
More New Age...

FAITH UNDER FIRE
PayPal blacklists Christian writer
Online activist told friends must find another way to support his ministry
Posted: September 21, 2011
8:41 pm Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2011 WND



"Relax," says a PayPal website. "Pay friends & family in seconds with PayPal." After all, it's the "easy way to send money in seconds." No checks, no ATMs, no envelopes and stamps, just click the button on your computer.

That is, of course, unless you and your friends teach the biblical perspective that homosexuality is not acceptable for Christians and is a sin.

Then you get a note from the money-transfer giant that you are being investigated. Another note follows shortly later that your account is being closed and PayPal will hold the money for 180 days, and then return it to you. But you don't have any access to it any longer.

Those are the circumstances that have developed with Christian activist Julio Severo, who posts writings online on his international Last Days Watchman blog, teaching Christian values and alerting readers to anti-Christian influences worldwide.

Read more: PayPal blacklists Christian writer http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=346825#ixzz1YhPwR5pU

http://tinyurl.com/4xrjzz5


Dave in CA
 
How Not to Play Peacemaker

SEPTEMBER 21, 2011




(skip)

To offer guidance to their fellow Europeans, like Moses descending from Mount Sinai, come a pair of the continent's leading lights -- Nobel Peace Prize laureate Martti Ahtisaari and former EU foreign-policy chief Javier Solana -- who penned a Sept. 16 New York Times op-ed offering 10 reasons why Europe should support the statehood bid. Amid the dozens of op-eds that have appeared on the issue, the Ahtisaari-Solana essay stands out as an exemplar of wise men both offering

bad arguments

and

ignoring unpleasant realities. (cont'd)

* * *

http://tinyurl.com/3s5cyrf

or

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...maker?page=0,0

Thanks to Denise for the link.
 
Duane Elgin, Nassim Haramein, Steven Greer, Jack Kasher, Daniel Sheehan, Adam Trombly, Brian O’Leary, Vandana Shiva, John Gatto, John Robbins, Deepak Chopra, David Icke, Catherine Austin Fitts, G. Edward Griffin, Bill Still, John Perkins, Paul Hawken, Aqeela Sherrills, Evon Peter, Angel Kyodo Williams, Elisabet Sahtouris, Amy Goodman, and Barbara Marx Hubbard.
2012 The Awakening
I went to that site that was suggested by JD.
I found it odd that blatant New Agers were listed with people I had not known were New Agers. John Gatto, for instance. Edward Griffin and Bill Still. Is Bill Still the same as William Still. And I assume John Gatto is the same as John Taylor Gatto, the New York former school teacher who has written large books exposing the public school system. I had thought he was Catholic. Wonders never cease.
 
The papcy too old fashioned to be new age?

How ridiculous! New age practices have been around for a long, long time.
 
Palestinians ready to flee new Palestinian state

Monday, September 19, 2011 | Ryan Jones


It is no secret that most Israelis oppose the Palestinians' unilateral statehood bid scheduled to take place (cont'd)

* * *

http://tinyurl.com/3t978t6

or

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/News/tabid/178/nid/22950/language/en-US/Default.aspx
 
P.S. Thanks to WEDG for the link.
 
JD,

GOOD FIND!!! Many of the "usual suspects" to be featured in future interviews. I am going to bookmark the site for future reference.
 
ecstatic adoration to constructive criticism!
dell latitude d620 drivers
 
I know everything around here seems to be Solana, Solana, and Solana. But did anyone see Sarkozy's speech and peace proposal at the UN?

Later, the Quartet and Ashton outlined the same plan and timetable. Now they are crying that it was thier idea for months before Sarko took the podium. Then why didn't they bring it up before? Everyone knows Sarkozy loves the limelight.

I have mentioned Sarko several times on this blog with no responses except for Susanna. Many seem to dismiss him because no one likes him and he is considered brash, egotistical (he is indeed all of those), but, people have been dismissing him since he took office stating he is really a nobody, and here we are almost four years later and he still has his hand in everything.

No one has done more to shape world events in the last few years, not Bush, not Obama, not Merkel, not Van Rompuy, and NOT Solana.

I suggest that people pay MORE attention to Sarkozy and how he operates.
 
RE: "Annonymous said..."
"The papcy too old fashioned to be new age?"

"How ridiculous! New age practices have been around for a long, long time."


I personally would agree with you. I've recently re-read Hislop's classic "Two Babylons" in which he fully documents Roman Catholicism's direct link to the paganism of Eastern religions. The roots of RC and New Age clearly belong to the same tree that produces bad fruit. I think the New Age movement can be summed up with the serpent's "yea, hath God said" statement (Genesis 3:1)that was the basis for questioning the authority of God's word. RC trumps God's word via its traditions and doctrines of man. RC advocates (as dogma)a different Gospel from that which the Bible clearly declares. What does scripture say about a "different" gospel? "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:8). I don't doubt that the New Age movement is against RC ... just as it is against any "religion" that differs from their desire to create a new age, one world religion. RC has a hierarchy that would naturally oppose, and therefore, be a threat to the New Agers. The New Agers' opposition to RC should in no way be construed to provide legitimacy to the false system of Roman Catholcism.
 
Constance,

I hope you will refute Ray's accusations.
 
Ray,

This is classic Sola Scriptura. Your Bible did not fall from the sky. It was compiled by the Catholic Church.

Read the Bible through the eyes of the early christians.

Ever read the Early Church Fathers who compiled the Bible?

Your Pastors are lying to you.

Do not trust a 16th century invention over the first Christians.

Anything can be attacked using a fallacy.

The Two Babylon's have been refuted.

http://archive.catholic.com/library/Is_Catholicism_Pagan.asp

Savvy
 
Savvy

Part of what you say is true. But part is also very wrong.

Ever hear where God says not to change or add anything to his Word?

Of course you have, but you will change even that to fit your needs.
 
To "Anonymous said":

Please don't take this personal. The only written record of Peter that we have is found in the Epistles of Peter 1 & 2. Have you ever wondered why it is that he never referred to himself as the leader of the church, nor does he mention in the slightest the Office of the Papacy? If you read these epistles, you will also notice that Peter never mentions the Sacrifice of the Mass, the Office of the Priest, the Confessional, Purgatory, the Seven Sacraments, Penance, Celibacy, Mary as a Mediator (along with the dead saints) between God and man, etc., etc. Regarding the re-sacrifice of Christ in the Mass, Peter writes: “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins …” I Peter 3:18. Romans 6:10 "For in that he died, he died unto sin once ..." Hebrews 9: 25,26 "Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." In contrast, via the Mass, Christ continues to be falsely sacrificed for the sins of the people. Without the Mass, the entire RC system falls apart. Without the Mass, there is no need for the Office of the Priest … “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” I Timothy 2:5 No church, no priest, no minister, no pastor or rabbi can save you. Only by the grace and mercy through faith in the finished work, and the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ can one be saved. This is what the Bible clearly teaches. Your decision is to either believe and trust in Christ alone as revealed in His Word, or trust in what a man made institution is teaching you. Which is it going to be?
 
Anon@1:07 p.m.

Yes, the word of God, says not to change anything.

So, why did Luther remove books from the Bible?

Why did he call the Epistle of James an epistle of straw, because it did not fit his personal beliefs?

How do you know, you're not the one who has added and taken away from the Bible?

We have had these discussion many times already.

Why do you pretend Christianity did not exist until the 16th century?



Savvy
 
Savvy

I didn't ask you about Luther or any 16th century viewpoints.

Where does it tell you to ask Mary for help, or call her the Queen of Heaven? That didn't even become popular until the 1800's.

Where does it tell you to ask the saints for help? It doesn't, because they are all dead and can't hear you! Just like Moses and Noah for example. They are dead and can't hear you.

The only one you should be asking for help is - the Lord Jesus!!
 
Anon,

People in heaven are not dead.

We know that those in heaven care for us (Luke 15:7).

We also know that they present our prayers to Jesus (Revelation 5:8).

Finally we see that they add their own prayers to ours (Revelation 8:3-4)


1880's?


Revelation 11:12 says:

"A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pangs, in the agony of giving birth. Then the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, so that he might devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron. But her child was snatched away and taken to God and to his throne.."

The woman in Revelation gave birth to the King of the Israelites (Jesus) - who will rule the nations and is on God's throne

The devil is very interested in destroying her but she is safe

Her children are all faithful Christians who "follow the lamb" (Rev 12:17)

A very sincere question. Have you read the writings of the early church, since these things were found in the early church?


Savvy
 
Savvy

It is my opinion that the "woman" in revelations is not Mary.

And what I mean by dead is, they cannot help you.

Do the words "the way to the Father is through me" ring a bell.

Our Lord didn't say ask Mary, or the saints, or anyone else. He SAID, ask me.

I will sign off for now, I have seen this go on for days here.
 
Anon @2:45 p.m.

2 Peter 1: 20 says that no scripture is of private interpretation.

So why should your opinions be trusted anymore than mine?

Catholics worship only Jesus. We agree that Jesus is the only way.

You are confusing prayer with worship.

I don't worship someone, if I ask them to pray for me.

If the saints cannot help us then why do they interceed before the throne of God for us?


Savvy
 
Savvy

I'm NOT confusing anything. I spent over half my life in the church, 12 years in catholic school, 8 years as an altar boy.

I really don't need you to explain catholic teachings to me. I KNOW them VERY WELL.
 
Savvy! "..there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." 1 Tim. 2:5 Sola Scriptura! Guillermo
 
Anon@3:08 p.m.

If you know Catholic teachings very well, then what exactly is your problem?

I don't need you to explain Protestant teachings, since you ALL subscribe to Sola Scriptura and when not fighting with each other over scripture verses , you are fighting with the Catholics.

Please leave us alone.

Savvy
 
Anon@3:11 p,m.

Yes, Jesus is the one mediator between God and man.

Nobody is denying this.

1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4).

The intercession of fellow Christians on earth or in heaven does not take away from Christ's unique mediatorship.


Savvy
 
Savvy

You are funny!! Who said I was a Protestant?
 
Good job, Savvy!!!
 
Anon@4:22 p.m.

Whatever you are you are certainly very confused, about what you subscribe to.



Savvy
 
Savvy

Once again, you are very funny!!

I'm confident, not confused.
 
Anonymous @ 8:02 PM

Actually, you sound more SMUG than confident.
 
Anonymous 7:00 A.M.

There have been rumors that ex IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn was set up...especially in light of reports from the French newspaper Le Post that Jonathan Pinet, an activist in Sarko's UMP party, was the first person to break the news of Strauss-Kahn's arrest BEFORE IT EVEN HAPPENED.

DOMINIQUE STRAUSS-KAHN WAS IT A STITCH UP?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance
/dominique-strauss-kahn/
8516275/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-Was
-it-a-stitch-up.html
_________________________________

Christine Lagarde, who took over IMF after Strauss Kahn stepped down, is pals with Sarko. Nevertheless, it is doubtful that she is going to escape being investigated for that little dust up having to do with her possibly unlawful interference in a lawsuit involving another of Sarko's pals.


The Full Backstory On The New Investigation Into Christine Lagarde

http://www.businessinsider.com/
christine-lagarde-investigation-2011-8
________________________________

French media reveals details behind Lagarde inquiry

http://www.reuters.com/article
/2011/08/18/us-france-lagarde
-idUSTRE77H3MI20110818
_________________________________

But then, skills Lagarde acquired during the years she worked as a Chicago lawyer may enable her to successfully beat the rap....and keep her in conformity with the "behave yourself" clause which was newly added to her contract with IMF after the Strauss-Kahn fiasco.

Interestingly, Lagarde was recommended for her IMF post by none other than our tax cheat Treasury Secretary Tim Geitner and Lagarde is rumored to have become friends with Bernardine Dohrn ( wife of Bill Ayers ) while working as a lawyer in Chicago.

And the rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper and deeper.....
 
Savvy

Check out the definition for mediator and words synonymous from Merriam-Webster (and several other sources)

Mediator (noun)
one who works with opposing sides in order to bring about an agreement

Synonyms: broker, buffer, conciliator, go-between, honest broker, INTERCEDER, INTERCESSOR, intermediary, intermediate, interposer, middleman, peacemaker.

Mediator and intercessor, mediate and intercede mean basically the same thing!!

So, if Jesus is the ONE MEDIATOR between man and the Father, then we don't need anyone else to INTERCEDE on our behalf!!
 
Anon@8:40 a.m.

"Jesus is the ONE mediator between man and God, The MAN, Jesus Christ"

The emphasis is put on man, because of the incarnation.

because he is BOTH man and God.

This makes Jesus the unique mediator.

But, it does not say there cannot be others.

St. Paul, in the same passage, encourages all men everywhere to pray and intercede.


Savvy
 
Savvy,

A couple of questions: I've been searching the Scriptures and haven't been able to find the
"Immacualate Conception." That's the one that teaches that "Mary was born without sin." Also, I haven't been able to find anything that even remotely teaches we are to pray to Mary. Can you help me out?
 
Ray,

The angel Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28). The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit.

She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence.

You could say that God preserved her from sin, through the merits of Jesus or in anticipation.

Jesus could not have been born through a sinful vessel.

The objection is that if Mary did not sin, she would be equal to God. This is not true, since Adam and Eve and the angels were created without sin, but were not equal to God.

We know that those in heaven care for us (Luke 15:7).

We also know that they present our prayers to Jesus (Revelation 5:8).

Finally we see that they add their own prayers to ours (Revelation 8:3-4)

Here is what Webster's says about the word pray:

(1) To utter petition to God ... (2) To make a fervent request: PLEAD (3) To beseech: implore (4) to make a devout or earnest request for.

The first thing to notice is that the word "worship" is not included in the definition of "pray."

It does not mean "worship."

Once again you are confusing prayer with worship.

I can ask people to pray for me, without worshipping them.

Savvy
 
I would also add, that you cannot save people by lying about their beliefs. This is not Christ-like.


Savvy
 
Savvy

This seems pretty simple to understand. There are no other ways or persons except Jesus.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And I think you are really confused. Yes, we are encouraged to pray and intercede for many people - who are alive!!!

It does not mean the dead can intercede for us.

You don't have to explain anything to me, as I mentioned , over half my life in the church.

YOU CANNOT pray for the souls of the departed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When your life is over, that is it!! You are judged accordingly
 
You cannot save anyone by following false doctrines either. You will only lead them down the wrong path.
 
Sorry if this was posted before somewhere, since I seem to recall seeing it somewhere but not sure....

This is related to JD's post regarding the Thrive movement (and I'll echo other's sentiments - great find!) There's a full-length documentary called "The Quickening" at this site:

http://awakeningasone.com/
 
Anonymous (5:27AM) mentioned earlier in this thread that Bill Still (William Still?) was listed in the site suggested by JD: http://thrivemovement.com/

I’ve seen Bill Still’s name appear quite a bit of late in blogs, with regards to his ‘renown’ as an economist. I’d be very grateful if someone could briefly update me about his new age links. His two “must watch” videos are called “The Money Masters” and “The Secret to Oz.” Just google them; lot’s of sites feature these films.

Thank you.
Jennifer, UK

Here’s Bill in a recent interview with Max Keiser explaining why gold isn’t the answer for money.
Max Keiser’s interview with Bill Still starts at about 13.29 minutes in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drBQ48XtjPA

Here’s the full version of Bill Still’s “The Secret of Oz.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI&feature=related
 
Marko, wow, scary information on this website! Thanks! What is such a stunner is that it glorifies a `day` when the world will be as `one` and that it could be 11;11;11. God on His Throne and he will direct events but it is just chilling to think that this `day` might be the `day of decision `- to accept `oneness ` or `choose to be separate `?
melinda
 
Anon 5:27, Marko, others,

Having no real idea of what each person brings to the film, I believe with a few of those interviewed a case may be made that some individuals may not have known what they were getting into when they agreed to participate in this film.

After all it is only because of the Thrive site and trailer that I am aware of Foster and Lisa Carter Gamble. Both may have used their familial reputation to procure interviews under some not so sincere motives. That being said, I am interested to see where this goes, and how many participants (outside of the obvious New Agers)cry foul once they see the final presentation.
 
As the entire "perfect storm" seems to be coming right in sync with what Ari Shalit spoke, I am leaving this here a little longer than usual.

I wonder what people thought of the Florida straw poll on Saturday. Personally, I think that Mr. Cain is an intriguing figure. 9% sales tax to replace other taxes is not a bad idea either, IMHO.


Constance
 
Maybe we all need to consider BOYCOTTING PAY PAL!

Constance
 
Sarkozy is in political trouble in France, as I read this morning's 360 news.

Constance
 
Because of the very way Solana came to my attention and was confirmed by many others, including but not limited to Herb Peters, (November 22,1995 my discovery date), I cannot ignore him -- at least not now.

I may explain later. Some of you already know.

Constance
 
unsealed.org

God's judgement of the U.N. and Palestinian actions
Joel 3:1-2 (NIV)

The Nations Judged

“In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.

There I will put them on trial
for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel,
because they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land.
 
Constance 11:49 a.m.

According to an article posted at Breitbart Big Governement, the IMF which is headed by
Sarkozy's pal Christine Lagarde is now looking for a bailout.

http://biggovernment.com/publius
/2011/09/26/monday-open-thread-im
-edition/

See also

IMF chief calls for bailout of EU banks

http://www.examiner.com/european
-finance-in-national/imf-chief
-calls-for-bailout-of-eu-banks
_______________________________

IMF chief tells Europe: you must bail out the banks again
September 22, 2011

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world
/2011/sep/22/imf-chief-europe-bail
-out-banks
________________________________


Christine Lagarede is currently under investigation for her possibly illegal intervention into a lawsuit which resulted in a huge payout to another friend and supporter of Sarkozy; business tycoon Bernard Tapie. The payout involved taxpayer funds and was made by state-owned bank Credit Lyonnais!

THE FULL BACK STORY ON THE NEW INVESTIGATION INTO CHRISTINE LAGARDE
August 4, 2011

http://www.businessinsider.com/
christine-lagarde-investigation
-2011-8
_________________________________

Gee. It occurs to me that IMF bailouts will also involve taxpayer funds. Much of which comes out of the pockets of U.S. taxpayers!

Hmmmmmmmm!
 
P.S.

Christine Lagarde: IMF may need billions in extra funding

Christine Lagarde has signalled that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) may have to tap its members – including Britain – for billions of pounds of extra funding to stem the European debt crisis

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance
/financialcrisis/8788223/Christine
-Lagarde-IMF-may-need-billions-in
-extra-funding.html
 
From the founder of InterVarsity who was also the publisher of Dave Hunt's first two books, Norman Grubb:

When I discovered there is only One Person in the universe, I found something. There’s only one Person in the universe…that’s He. That’s an astounding statement! There is only one Person, and the whole universe is His means of manifestation. I saw that in the Bible…“In the beginning God.” If in the beginning God, everything must be some form of God, or we’ve got more than God. I had to discover life isn’t God and…it’s God only. Get that? It isn’t God and. That’s our trouble. When life is God and, you’ve got a multitude of ands…that’s our trouble! Separation is our trouble. Unity is our secret…or unification, if you prefer that way. It isn’t God and. It’s God only. God is in me. Everything must be a part of Him, some form of Him. And then when I move through Scripture, I find we’re told the end. We’re told the fire of the consummation when the Son will…when last enemy has been destroyed which is death…the Son, in I Corinthians 15, renders up the Kingdom to the Father that God may be all in all.

If He’s all, He’s not ‘some’. If He’s all, He’s all there is! And then when I saw what Jesus had said that gives us an inner revelation of who this Person is…says, "He’s Spirit." I saw! Jesus said that…those two, great, three-worded statements which are the keys to me. This is the first. Jesus said…didn’t say it to some big theologian…said it to the woman in Samaria…"God is Spirit." God is Spirit. Now I understand what Spirit is, because the Bible also says we’re spirits. Bible says He formed our spirits so, you know, our real self…our ‘I Am’…is our spirit. That’s the unchangeable universal you…your ‘I AM’…your ‘I AM’. That’s your spirit. It’s expressed through soul and body…your ‘I AM’…your knowing and desiring and willing. That’s what an ‘I AM’ is…a knower, a desirer, and a willer. That ‘I Am’ must have form of expression or it’s meaningless. So human ‘I AM’ is expressed through our soul and body. Our soul is our reason which expresses our claim to knowledge. It is our emotions which express our desires; and then the body is the outer expression. So a spirit is only manifestable when he has his form of manifestation. So I know The Spirit must be manifested Spirit because we’re spirits – created spirits.

The Meaning of Life


Classic theosophy in EVERY sense of the word!!!!!
 
Joan Veon and I frequently talked while she was still living. In 2008 she told me she was alarmed, that what was really going on, said Joan was that money was being transferred out of the country to establish the new order.

Constance
 
Constance

Yes, Sarkozy is in BIG political trouble.

I have seen for the last three years this man constantly get himself into this kind of trouble. I don't know how he manages to always come out of it and still be a major world player.

He may not make it back from this, but, I have thought that many time before. We will see.

Keep in mind, Van Rumpoy's term as EU Council President is up a month before the elections in France. I personally think Sarko would love the job. Who knows?
 
Constance,

With all due respect, while I agree InterVarsity puts out some blatantly New Age books and others at odds with Christian orthodoxy, they also publish some of Christian orthodoxy. Here's a list of a few respected authors within the orthodox Christian community who appear on InterVarsity:

FF Bruce
Craig Blomberg
JI Packer
I Howard Marshall
RC Sproul
GF Hawthorne

I don't necessarily agree with all of the views of the above; but, they are squarely within orthodoxy from what I've read. My favorite Bible is the NIV Study Bible put out by Zondervan and, of course, they also publish the satanic bible.

I'm not stating all this to excuse either of these publishers; I'm only pointing out that there are some good books put out by these two examples. I would much rather they adhere strictly to orthodoxy. I am saying we should be careful in painting a broad brush.

There are other publishers who exclusively put out New Age books or those with unorthodox Christian doctrines.
 
Constance,

That is quite a statement by the founder of InterVarsity. I have known for some time that InterVarsity leaned towards liberalism but had no idea that they were promulgating New Age theosophy. It sounds like a statement that Helena Blavatsky herself could have written. Amazing!
 
Craig,

Serving two masters is not a biblical concept. You will either cling to the one and serve him, or cling to the other and serve it. This is a major problem within professing Christianity today. There was a time when Christians were willing to be burned at the stake rather than confess an error they knew to be untrue. Why is it we are willing to give compromising professors of Christ such an easy pass when they are so willingly (without any threat of violence to themselves) to compromise His truth? When I first became a Christian, I used to hear the preachers use the phrase: "peace if possible, but truth at all costs." I haven't heard or read that statement for a long time. In times of compromise (all in the name of “unity”), statements like that understandably are not very popular. To deny truth is to deny Christ. You can’t serve falsehood and truth at the same time. If you apply that test to InterVarsity, they fail miserably.
 
Ray B.

I don't disagree with you. I would rather see the NIV Study Bible on an exclusively Christian publisher and all the Christian orthodox books on InterVarsity on the same. Do the writers of these books know about InterVarsity's founder? I don't know.

It really depends how far we go. If we limit all our purchases to strictly Christian producers, then I'm sure we'll find our choices not only limited but non-existent with respect to some products including necessities.

Are Blomberg and the others "serving two masters" with their InterVarsity books or are the salt/light amongst the darkness?
 
Craig,

I'm not commenting on the writers of orthodox books that InterVarsity publishes, but rather on IV's publishing of New Age material.
 
Anon@12:14 p.m.

You slept through half your life! I am a revert, so yeah I know the feeling.

The saints are alive in Christ. They are closer to Christ now, and therefore their prayers for us are more effective.

You still have not addressed the verses I gave you.

There are two judgements, one after the death, and the other at the second coming.

Savvy
 
Anon@2:18 p.m.

Salvation is not a one in a life time event. I was saved at baptism and continue to be saved through the sacraments instituted by Christ, as the ordinary means of salvation.
 
Savvy

Two judgements? Do you mean that a person is judged after death, and that there is still a possibility that prayers and intercessions can alter the second judgement?

Not being sarcastic, am genuinely curious what you mean.
 
Anon@2:18 p.m.

There is a personal judgement after we die, where we know what our fate will be.

And then there is a general judgement, where our sins will be revealed publicly before all at the second coming.

Your argument is probably one of soul sleep that a person cannot answer our prayers because they are in a state of sleep until the final judgement.

If the dead are asleep, one must ask how Jesus communicated with them during his transfiguration (Mt 17:3),

how they offer our prayers to God (Rv 5:8),

how they cry out in a loud voice in praise of God (Rv 7:10),

and how these sleeping, unconscious souls cry out, "How long will it be, holy and true master, before you sit in judgement and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?" (Rv 6:10).

Those that have died are more alive than we are, and they surround us like a great cloud of witnesses (Heb 12:1).

Those in heaven are alive in Christ.

Savvy
 
"and that there is still a possibility that prayers and intercessions can alter the second judgement?"

The souls of the damned cannot be saved through prayers and intercessions.

This is not a Catholic teaching.
 
Quote from Haaretz Op, titled "Europe must save the two-state solution," dated 9/17/11:

"This is the moment for Europe to show leadership; the moment to assert the moral vision of politics beyond pure power play that has guided Europe’s unification."

http://tinyurl.com/3l63ys9

or

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/strenger-than-fiction/europe-must-save-the-two-state-solution-1.386500
 
P.S. Thanks to RR for the link.
 
Ray B.,

My point to Constance was that the reference to Dave Hunt could be construed that because he had books published on InterVarsity, whose founder authored a New Age/Theosophical book, that Hunt's books were of a New Age persuasion and potentially, if not essentially, all other books published by IV would similarly be tainted by New Age doctrines.

The sad thing is that "liberal" Christians have infiltrated the seminaries -- even the better schools. They are getting educated and using this education to twist the true Word of God and the person of Jesus Christ.

There are a plethora of books on the historical (Jesus) Christ -- the Incarnate Christ who walked the earth pre-Resurrection -- from "liberal" theologians who distort the Scriptures. Many of these are on secular-oriented publishers while others are on mixed publishers (those publishing both orthodox and less-than-orthodox books). It makes it very confusing for those desiring a factual, scholarly study of the historical Jesus Christ.

The enemy has really done a job in this area.
 
Savvy

I am the anon who asked you the question (but not the response following your answer).

I do not agree that those who have passed on can offer us help with intercession, nor can we who are alive alter the outcome of judgement for the departed by praying for them. It seems to me, that if that were true, it would take away some of the responsibility on our part to live as God has instructed us.

I am still not clear if that is what you believe or not, and I certainly am not intent on insulting you if your beliefs differ from mine.

But if we could intercede for those that have passed, then if we pray hard and long enough we can get Hitler and men like him into Heaven. To me, that seems completely against what God teaches us in His Word.

I know there are so many anons posting here, just want you to know I am not one who is trying insult you.

God Bless
 
after 5 years we are having to leave our church. it is increasingly difficult to find a biblical church. i believe it has been mentioned here before and i'm hoping for some comments on one we are thinking of visiting. it states it is an acts 29 church and part of the gospel coalition. please comment?

cagey
 
cagey,

I've never heard of "Acts 29" churches; but, when I looked this up I see the vulgar and "cussing pastor" Mark Driscoll is president of the "Acts 29 Church Planting Network." WARNING the language here is explicit:

http://www.mbla.org/Acts29.htm

I have NO idea why John Piper would continue to endorse this guy. Confusingly, the "Gospel Coalition" seems to include, along with Piper, Tim Keller and Don (D.A.) Carson among others. I believe Keller is mostly, if not totally legit; but, I seem to recall some negative press about him lately -- I could be wrong. Carson is a well respected orthodox Biblical scholar.
 
Someone made a reference to "being saved" when they were "baptised." Presumably they are referring to when they were baptised as an infant in a Roman Catholic church. Infant baptism saves no one and is in fact just another hoax that is perpetrated upon its people, resulting in a lifetime of superstitious devotion to mother church. Scripture instructs us to "believe and be baptised." How does an infant "believe?"
 
'Mark of the beast' causing legal stir

The Rutherford Institute has filed suit to challenge Oklahoma's biometric photo requirement for drivers' licenses.

When Kaye Beach applied for renewal of her driver's license in March, she refused the required biometric photograph and wanted instead to be allowed to use a low-resolution photograph for her license, based on religious grounds. So a lawsuit has been filed against the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety (DPS) for not accommodating Beach's religious beliefs and for violating the Oklahoma Religious Freedom Act.

"The biometric photographs digitalize your face and then put all your information ... into a central computer which goes worldwide, which means it's like a facial scan, which means wherever you go, that becomes sort of your ID card," explains John Whitehead, founder of The Rutherford Institute. "Beach believes that's the mark of the beast in the Book of Revelation.

He says the applicant met all the other requirements for renewing her license, but DPS refused her request, insisting that state law does not provide alternatives or exemptions to the digitalized photos. But the effects of that go beyond Beach's capability to drive.

"Because she will not get this type of biometric photograph on her driver's license, she cannot get prescription medicines, use her debit card, rent a hotel, obtain a post office box, or drive a car," Rutherford points out. "The argument here, as most people know in the Book of Revelation, is that the mark of the beast won't let you buy, sell or move in society."

Attorneys with Echols & Associates are working with the Institute in its defense of Beach's right to religious freedom.

http://tinyurl.com/3vad9pc
 
http://www.maranathamrc.com/don_spot.htm

Hello Constance I` ve been reading Don Stanton`s research and contributions for many years-and only recently realized he has a website. You might find some interesting information-although most of it will be known to you.

Not sure if you know about him already?

regards
melinda
 
Regarding why Catholics pray for the deceased....

Even though the word "purgatory" is not actually in the Bible (Note: neither is the word 'bible' in the Bible)....the following scriptural references support the Catholic Church's teaching on Purgatory.

Revelation 27 - "And there shall in no wise enter into it ANY THING THAT DEFILETH, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out UNTIL YOU HAVE PAID THE LAST PENNY.”

Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, "BE PERFECT, even as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world OR IN THE NEXT.”
 
Why Catholics believe in having infants baptized....

Catholics view Baptism as the ultimate spiritual gift....an act of uniting one with Christ.

We also believe that God requires us to accept this gift in order to be saved.

Baptism removed the stain of original sin that ALL humans are born with since Adam and Eve sinned against God in the Garden of Eden.

Therefore, WHY would any Christian want to risk it, by taking the chance of waiting until an infant is 'older'(?) before having him or her baptized?

(I mean....if your child wants to reject his or her Christianity later on - as an adult - well, that's why God gave each one of us a free will.)
 
John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, "Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
 
This is admittedly off-topic but...how did I miss this? Wlliam Alnor died not long ago.
 
To Anonymous regarding Purgatory:

The verses you cite do not support "purgatory." Purgatory was an invention of men that was used to "sell" the Sacrifice of the Mass for the dead. It is totally against the Gospel of Jesus Christ by holding that Christ’s once only sacrifice on the cross was insufficient . When a person is truly born again through grace and faith (a gift from God Ephesians 2:8,9), they are sealed by the Holy Spirit and given the promise of eternal life with Christ. Paul taught that to be "absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." No where will you find anything that even remotely indicates that believers go to a place like purgatory prior to being present with the Lord. Purgatory, like all false doctrines, must use verses that are out of context and require an interpretation that cannot be supported by other Scriptures. In this case, literally the entire New Testament stands in contrast to this false doctrine.
 
Well, Ray B. @ 7:05 PM: you're very smug and arrogant for someone who hasn't yet 'passed over' to the other side to know exactly WHAT is waiting for you!!!
 
To Anonymous:

God knows what is on "the other side." That's why He has given us His infallible word to believe, study and trust in. If you choose to trust in the "doctrines of men," it is your choice to do so. I have already been down that "religious" road, but, by the grace and mercy of God, he has given me eyes to see and ears to hear. The truth sets you free, and God's word is totally true and can and should be totally trusted.
 
Yes, Ray B. @ 8:24 PM - the truth most certainly has set me free. That's why I am so very happy and completely at peace with my Catholic faith!!!

So, I would suggest that you concentrate on your soul....and stop attacking other people's religions.
 
Hey, Ray - why don't you go crawl back under that rock from where you came?

Many of us regulars have dealt with Catholic-bashers like you ad nauseum and it's become very old and tiresome.
 
thanks craig!

anyone else concerning acts 29 or the gospel coalition?

cagey
 
Some of you should be ashamed of yourself!!!

I have read every post, and Ray B did not bash anyone. He simply stated his belirfs and used scripture to back it up. He did not utter a malicious word to anyone. If you do not agree with him, that is fine, but do not say he was bashing. And to tell him to go back under the rock he crawled from? That is terribly wrong when the man did not set out to maliciously harm anyone. It is pretty obvious by the tone of his text that was not his intention, even if you don't agree with him.
 
To Tony Cox @ 6:36 AM:
Re: "Ray B did not bash anyone."

Maybe YOU need to take a reading comprehension course.

Ray B. has referred to one of our Catholic beliefs as a 'false doctrine.' His OPINION (or rather, HIS interpretation of scripture) does NOT prove his argument.

Ray B also stated that 'infant baptism is just another hoax.'

Actually, both ou and Ray B. are the ones who ought to be ashemed of yourselves.

Of course, we all believe and KNOW that Christ died for the sins of all mankind. However, a person would have to be delusional to imagine that he or she has an automatic 'insurance policy' into Heaven....and that there is absolutely NOTHING more that has to be done (while still alive on this Earth) to EARN that eternal reward.
 
To Tony Cox @ 6:36 AM:
Re: "Ray B. did not bash anyone."

Maybe YOU need to take a reading comprehension course.

Ray B. has referred to one of our Catholic beliefs as a 'false doctrine.' His OPINION (or rather, HIS interpretation of scripture) does NOT prove his argument.

Ray B. also stated that 'infant baptism is just another hoax.'

Actually, both you and Ray B. are the ones who ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Of course, we all believe and KNOW that Christ died for the sins of all mankind. However, a person would have to be delusional to imagine that he or she has an automatic 'insurance policy' into Heaven....and that there is absolutely NOTHING more that has to be done (while still alive on this Earth) to EARN that eternal reward.
 
John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, "Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
 
Ray B. and Tony Cox (and others like them) also need to be ashamed of themselves for wasting time by deliberately encouraging a distraction from the true purpose of this blog - which is to expose the New Age Movement and its world wide agenda.
 
@Ray B Thanks for standing up for the Truth. This is a very Catholic affirming blog site. They have closed their eyes and refuse to accept anything other than their Catholic Religion, much like the Pharisees. They are more interested in upholding the traditions of men, than wanting to know God's truth. It is sad and all we can do is pray that they will one day have their eyes opened. I don't have to worry about them responding to my post though because they ignore anonymous posters. :)
 
Anon 9:33 and Ray B

Hold your head up!! Keep on speaking the truth!!
 
To Anonymous 9:33 AM:

No, what is realy 'sad' is that many Protestant Evangelicals actually believe that this blog was set up for them to convert others....and that has NEVER been the purpose of this blog!!!

Many times, it has been suggested that if that is what some of you want to do, then you should start your own blog....with that as your 'mission statement' and agenda.

Now, what part of that do you not understand?
 
Anonymous said:

“However, a person would have to be delusional to imagine that he or she has an automatic ‘insurance policy’ into Heaven and… that there is absolutely NOTHING more that has to be done (while still alive on this Earth) to EARN that eternal reward.”

However, Scripture teaches that alvation is not “earned.” Ephesians 2: 8,9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Titus 3:5,6 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior.”
 
Anonymous said...
John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, "Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

The “water” that is being referred to is the word of God. Ephesians 5: 25,26 “ … as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word.” The word of God is used to cleanse the believer as it molds that person into the person God wants every believer to be by increasing their faith through the word … “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 10:17

Baptism is an act of obedience by the believer (in which he or she symbolically declares their new life in Christ. The act of Baptism itself saves no one. "Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Notice that people are “damned” because of unbelief … not because they have not been baptized. Why? Again, because people are not saved through baptism, but only through belief in Christ alone.
 
WOW, Ray B.

When Jesus said the word, 'water,' every clear-thinking Christian KNOWS that He meant WATER. Our Lord and Savior didn't need to play 'games' with people, leaving them to wonder (or guess) what He 'meant' 2,000 years later.

The fact that you actually have the gall to attempt to 'twist' ('misinterpret' is a clear understatement) the words of Jesus Christ Himself takes a very arrogant person filled with false PRIDE!!!
 
Anonymous said...

John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, "Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Somehow, you left out quite a bit of the verses that you quoted. The actual verse in 3 reads: “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Your reference in verse 5 says nothing about baptism .. “ .. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” The Holy Spirit uses the word of God to wash and renew a believer in Christ. This is what the new birth is. If “baptism” saves a person, how is it that Jesus promised the thief on the cross next to him that “today thou shalt be with me in paradise?” Obviously, he was not baptised. Interesting as well, that Jesus DID NOT mention purgatory but promised paradise. The reason? There is no such place as purgatory. That should be good news!
 
Actually there is scriptural proof of Purgatory, which goes all the way back to 2 Machabees 12:42-46 in the Old Testament (one of the books that the Protestants threw out)....the Jews prayed for those who had died in battle that they would be "loosed from their sins."

The Protestant Bible is missing 7 entire books....

http://tinyurl.com/3qtjhfq
 
Ray B

Very good point. The thief on the cross was not baptized, so, shouldn't he have been sent to purgatory?

He was not because, there is no such thing.
 
Purgatory is simply a temporary place where already saved souls are purified (cleansed) of the temporal effects of sin until they are worthy to see the face of God.

Revelation 21:27 tells us that 'nothing defiled (unclean) shall enter Heaven.'

See also: Daniel 12:2, Matthew 12:32, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, 2 Timothy 1:16-18, Hebrews 12:14, Hebrews 12:22-23, 1 Peter 4:6.
 
Actually, Jesus does not owe any of us an explanation as to why He chose to immediately and unconditionally save the thief next to Him on the cross at Calvary.

Luke 23:42-43

"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom."

And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with Me in paradise."
 
51) Behold, I show you a mystery;
we shall not all sleep but we
shall all be changed.
52) In a moment, in the
twinkling of an eye, at the
last trump; for the trumpet shall
sound and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be
changed.
For this corruptible must put on
incorruption, and this mortal shall
have put on immortality, then shall
be brought to pass the saying that is
written, death is swallowed up in victory.
( I Cor. 15:51-53 )


Dante invented purgatory.
 
Like someone said earlier, you Protestants removed 7 entire books from the Bible!!!

LOL . . .
 
Some reasons why they don't belong in the Bible

Not one of the apocryphal books is written in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament. All Apocryphal books are in Greek, except one which is extant only in Latin.

None of the apocryphal writers laid claim to inspiration

The apocryphal books were never acknowledged as sacred scriptures by the Jews, custodians of the Hebrew scriptures (the apocrypha was written prior to the New Testament). In fact, the Jewish people rejected and destroyed the apocrypha after the overthow of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

The Apocrypha contains fabulous statements which not only contradict the "canonical" scriptures but themselves. For example, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in three different places
 
The Word of God is still the WORD of God.

The Bible is not a 'cafeteria' - where it's OK to select certain passages and ignore the rest.
 
The Manual of Discipline in the Dead Sea Scrolls rejected the apocrypha as inspired

Jerome vigorously resisted including the Apocrypha in his Latin Vulgate Version (400 AD), but was overruled. As a result, the standard Roman Catholic Bible throughout the medieval period contained it. Thus, it gradually came to be revered by the average clergyman. Still, many medieval Catholic scholars realized that it was not inspired.

Pope Damasus (366-384) authorized Jerome to translate the Latin Vulgate. The Council of Carthage declared this translation as "the infallible and authentic Bible." Jerome was the first to describe the extra 7 Old Testament books as the "Apocrypha" (doubtful authenticity). Needless to say, Jerome’s Latin Vulgate did not include the Apocrypha

There are reputed to be 263 quotations and 370 allusions to the Old Testament in the New Testament and not one of them refers to the Apocryphal

Hilary (bishop of Poictiers, 350 A.D.) rejected the apocrypha

Epiphanius (the great opposer of heresy, 360 A.D.) rejected them all

The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD).
 
Anon 2:49

Looks like those Protestants were right to remove those 7 books, huh?

Looks like many of your church fathers didn't want anything to do with those books either, huh?
 
The books removed were Tobit, Judith, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees, Wisdom (of Solomon), Sirach, and Baruch. Parts of existing books were also removed including Psalm 151 (from Psalms), parts of the Book of Esther, Susanna (from Daniel as chapter 13), and Bel and the Dragon (from Daniel as chapter 14).

The Christian Church filled with the Holy Spirit did not follow suit but kept all the books in the Septuagint. 46 + 27 = 73 Books total.

1500 years later, Protestants decided to keep the Catholic New Testament but change its Old Testament from the Catholic canon to the Jewish canon.

The books that were removed supported such things as
• Prayers for the dead (Tobit 12:12; 2 Maccabees 12:39-45)
• Purgatory (Wisdom 3:1-7)
• Intercession of saints in heaven (2 Maccabees 15:14)
• Intercession of angels (Tobit 12:12-15)

The books they dropped are sometimes called the Apocrypha.

Here is a Catholic Bible website: http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/
 
Anon@ 4:11 p.m.

If apocryphal books were not inspired , then why did Jesus quote from them in 80% of his Old Testament references?

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/septuagint.html

It's true that the Jews rejected this when they ratified their canon in 90 A.D. at the council of Jamnia. But, this was after the birth of the New Testament church, hence the rabbinical decisions were not binding.

There was not a single Bible before the Reformation that did not contain these books.

Their formal acceptance came as a result of the reformation. This was a rebuttal to it.

You might say this was a late formal acceptance, but then you are forgetting that councils only affirm already existing belief.

It took the trinity 300 years to become dogma, but was still believed before this.

The official acceptance of the final list of New Testament books only came at the council of Florence, just a 100 years before the Reformation.

This does not mean that the New Testament only became official at the council of Florence.

It simply shows that Sola Scriptura was not possible, since it was always the church that formalized Christian doctrines, including affirming the final list of New Testament books after much study and not without dispute.


Savvy
 
You are mistaken. Jesus DID NOT quote from the apocryphal books!! Unless a quote was similar to one in the OT.

There are reputed to be 263 quotations and 370 allusions to the Old Testament in the New Testament and not one of them refers to the Apocryphal
 
The only problem with
sola scriptura is that it keeps the
authority of the Word of God in
God's, ( the Holy Spirit's, ie
The Spirit of Truth's )
hands, as opposed to the
hands of the Roman Empire,
which handed it's authority to
the Pontificate, which was and
is, a continuation of the
Roman Empire by other means,
after the Roman Empire fell to
lust, pride, greed, brutality
and decadence.
Is not "Pontificus Maximus"
a Roman term ?
I have no doubt that many many
Roman Catholics are sincere
believers in Christ. This doesn't
make all their doctrine correct,
though.
AND many many Protestants are
terribly misled as well...
 
Anon@6:37 p.m.

These are the quotes that Jesus and his Apostles used from the apocryphal books.

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/deutero3.htm#nt%20order

Examine the evidence for yourself.


Savvy
 
Paul,

The term "Pontifex Maximus" was used by Tertullian who became a Montanist heretic to mock Pope Callistus.

“In opposition to this [modesty], could I not have acted the dissembler? I hear that there has even been an edict sent forth, and a peremptory one too. The ‘Pontifex Maximus,’ that is the ‘bishop of bishops,’ issues an edict: ‘I remit, to such as have discharged [the requirements of] repentance, the sins both of adultery and of fornication.’ O edict, on which cannot be inscribed, ‘Good deed!’ ...Far, far from Christ's betrothed be such a proclamation!"

(_On Modesty_ 1.1, ANF IV:74).

"I now inquire into your opinions, to see whence you usurp the right for the Church. Do you presume, because the Lord said to Peter, 'On this rock I will build my Church ...[Matt 16-19]' that the power of binding and loosing has thereby been handed over to you, that is, to every church akin to that of Peter?

What kind of man are you, subverting and changing what was the manifest intent of the Lord when He conferred this personally on Peter? 'On you,' He says, 'I will build my Church; and I give to you the Keys'...."

(Tertullian, On Modesty 21:9-10)

The problem with Sola Scriptura is that it gives each individual the authority to determine scripture for themselves, resulting in sect after sect.

We saw this even in the early days of Christianity.

Newman is his essays explains how the church figures out the basis for valid doctrinal development, and has since the earliest times.

http://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/introduction.html


Savvy
 
Dear Anonymous 9:33 AM,

The Protestant Bible is different from the Catholic and Orthodox Bible. The Protestant Old Testament Canon is the Hebrew Bible which morphed out of the so-called Jamnian School which was antiChristian to the core and even laid a curse on the "minim" which included followers of Jesus. Therefore, it is interesting that Protestants - following the man made tradition of Martin Luther - would trust a Bible that morphed out of this antiChristian "Jamnian School" and reject the Septuagint which was the Scripture translation most often quoted in the New Testament.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counci
l_of_Jamnia

On the other hand, the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Old Testament Canon is based on the Septuagint. The Septuagint is the translation most quoted in the New Testament and by the Apostolic Fathers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septua
gint

Praying for the dead is explicitly mentioned in 2 Maccabees 12:38-46 which is in the Septuagint.

http://usccb.org/bible/2maccabees/
12/

Again, the so-called Jamnia School was not only not Christian. It was anti-Christian! This school included only those Jews who rejected Christ or who were unaware of Him. In fact, speaking of Pharisees, the Jamnia school is a product of the Pharisees and legalists. This, by the way, is why they didn't need a Council to produce a canon. The Pharisees had long used what came to be known vis a vis Martin Luther as the modern Protestant Old Testament. It was the Hellenists, the Greek-speaking Jews, who used the modern Catholic Old Testament, while the Sadducees used only the first five Books of the Bible.
 
(Continued . . .)

Another thing to note is this:

While it's not clear that the Jamnia school ever produced a Biblical canon, there was a push back against the Catholic Deuterocanon, and the Greek translation of the Bible generally, because the Deuterocanon speaks quite clearly of things like Heaven and Hell. It contains astoundingly clear Christological prophesies. For example, Matthew 27:41-43 is clearly written as a fulfillment of Wisdom 2:12-22, in which the Just One was to die a shameful Death (see also Philippians 2:8). By purging Judaism of the Deuterocanon, you could slow the mass movement of Jews into Christianity. This, by the way, is why many scholars who support the idea of some sort of Jamnia canon think that the canon was formed: to purge the Hellenists and the Christians.........

http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com
/2011/07/can-protestants-rely-upon-
council-of.html

It should come as no surprise then that the early Christians rejected the "Pharisees' canon."

But it's still important to remember that we're not starting from scratch. There were Christians in the late first century, after all, faithful ones, many of who had heard Jesus or the Apostles first-hand. And of course, the Apostle John was almost certainly still alive. And yet here's what we don't see: we don't see Jewish and Gentile Christians saying, “We need to pay attention to what the rabbis in Jamnia decide about which Books belong in the Bible, because their decision will bind us all.” And given that no early Christian used this Old Testament, there's no question about the right answer.
The Early Christians Ultimately Produced their Own Canons of Scripture: It's not as if early Christians were quiet on the question of the canon of Scripture. The North African Council of Carthage, championed by St. Augustine, the hero of Catholics and many Protestants, produced an exact Catholic Bible, Old and New Testament. It was based on an earlier Synod of Hippo who records are lost to time. Pope Damasus I confirmed this canon. This was a gradual process, admittedly, but one in which the Catholic view was upheld, and the Protestant and the rabbinical / Pharisees' view wasn't even advanced as an option.

http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com
/2011/07/can-protestants-rely-upon-
council-of.html
 
(Continued)

And finally.....

Remember that sola Scriptura says that all doctrines must come from the Bible. The canon of Scripture is certainly a doctrine: one of the most important doctrines, in fact. And yet Protestants advancing this view are deriving this doctrine not from Scripture, but from a Pharisaic tradition. Unless sola Scriptura now means “Scripture plus traditions of the Pharisees,” it's a massive walking contradiction for Protestants to advance this imagined Council as a way to derive the Books of the Bible.

http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com
/2011/07/can-protestants-rely-upon-
council-of.html
 
Sorry Savvy. You should dig a little deeper.

"Matt. 6:19-20 – Jesus’ statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 – lay up your treasure."

This is probably the strongest example that we will see in the list. Moreover, there may be a similarity of expression in that "lay up" and "treasure" (and even "rust") are present, but in Sirach 29 the "treasure" is literal treasure, whereas in Matthew 6 there is a contrast between carnal and spiritual treasure.

It's neither a quotation nor a clear allusion.

Moreover, Sirach's comment about obedience to God's commandments being better than gold is itself derivable from the canonical Scriptures:Psalm 19:7-11

And the command referenced in Sirach is found in the canonical Scriptures as well:
Deuteronomy 15:7-11
Proverbs 10:2

"Matt.. 7:12 – Jesus’ golden rule “do unto others” is the converse of Tobit 4:15 – what you hate, do not do to others."

First, of course, this is definitely not a quotation, it is a sort of mirror image approach to the question

Second, the source of Jesus' words is explained - it is a summary of the law and the prophets:
Matthew 7:12

"Matt. 7:16,20 – Jesus’ statement “you will know them by their fruits” follows Sirach 27:6 –the fruit discloses the cultivation

Again, this is not a quotation. Moreover, while it is a similar idea, it is not same idea.

Notice the difference. Jesus is not referring her to how the tree has been cultivated, but to what sort of plant it is. A more similar thought is found in the canonical Scriptures:
Isaiah 5:1-4

Matt. 11:25 – Jesus’ description “Lord of heaven and earth” is the same as Tobit 7:18 – Lord of heaven and earth."

Like the "sheep with no shepherd" them, the theme of God being the Lord of heaven and earth is similarly a widespread theme.
Psalm 115:15
Psalm 121:2
Isaiah 37:16
Isaiah 66:1
 
cont.

"Matt. 12:42 – Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books."

No. He refers to the actual wisdom of Solomon, not the book given the name "the wisdom of Solomon."

The account of this can be found in the canonical Scriptures
1 Kings 10:1-13

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29– Gospel writers refer to the canonicityObviously, the reference to the seven husbands is not from Jesus at all, but from the Saducees.


No. This is way off. Moreover, it should be noted that the woman is not the same as the woman of Tobit 3 of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers."

And interestingly, the woman of Tobit 7 (no need to decide if it is the same one, though it seems to be) was married to an eighth husband

"Matt. 24:15 – the “desolating sacrilege” Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17."

No. It is taken from Daniel, and 1&2 Maccabees would contradict Jesus' words, if taken to refer to Daniel

In fact, to the extent that 1&2 Maccabees aim to make reference to Daniel's account, they appear to contradict the words of the Lord

"Matt. 24:16 – let those “flee to the mountains” is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28

Again, no. First examine the text.
So, it is not a quote - simply advice to do something similar to what Mattathias did, without referencing Mattathias in any way.

If you're looking for an Old Testament reference, perhaps a better one would be:
Isaiah 30:17
At least in that case, there is mention of fleeing and a mountain top, and it is not simply descriptive of a past event.

But fleeing to the mountains was a pretty common theme:
Genesis 14:10
Psalm 11:1
Song of Solomon 4:6
Zechariah 14:5

There are MANY more examples then these!!
 
@ 7:45 Did someone say:
.."the canon of scriptures is certainly
a doctrine; one of the most important
of doctrines, in fact" ???

My, oh my
You're much more in error than I even
imagined.
 
From CNS News (09/29/11):

Former Clinton Adviser: 'Very Possible' Obama Will Bow Out of Presidential Race - For Now

In an interview with conservative radio icon Sean Hannity, former President Clinton adviser and campaign manager Dick Morris stated that, after speaking with a Democratic strategist, he thinks it is “very possible” that President Obama might acquiesce to requests from the Democratic leadership in Congress and bow out of the 2012 race, leaving the door open for him to return sometime in the future.

“I asked a top Democratic strategist the other day and he thought that it was possible that, in January, Harry Reid comes to Obama and says, ‘Look you cost us control of the House last year, you’re going to cost us control of the Senate this year. For the good of the party you have to step aside’” said Morris.

“And, then, (Obama) pulls a Lyndon Johnson, he says ‘I’m fighting to solve the recession, and problem is because of partisanship and my re-election people reject everything I say because of partisanship, so I’m going to not run for president and focus my full time attention on solving this recession’ and then go out popular,” Morris added.
 
Why the 'deadliest food outbreak in decades' is just another scare campaign...

http://www.naturalnews.com/033739
_cantaloupes_listeria.html
 
@ 7:45 Did someone say:
.."the canon of scriptures is certainly
a doctrine; one of the most important
of doctrines, in fact" ???

My, oh my
You're much more in error than I even
imagined.


Well Paul, your thinking on this issue is muddled, as usual. If one cannot rely definitively on EXACTLY which books constitute God's word, then one is free to change the Bible by adding more books or taking existing books away--right?
 
To any Catholic on this site:

Please explain exactly what a person must do in order to be saved.
 
It should be noted that Jude 9 may be a quote from the pseudepigraphical book The Assumption of Moses and, similarly, Jude 14 is an explicit reference to the pseudepigraphical(1st) Book of Enoch. Neither of these have ever been in consideration for canonicity. The 1st Book of Enoch was well respected as literature, but, again, at no point was it in consideration to be part of the canon.

The point is that works which are alluded to or even quoted from verbatim are not necessarily Holy Spirit inspired. To be considered as inspired, the entirety of the work must be scrutinized.
 
Dear Paul

If the best you can do is to issue an unsubstantiated pronunciamento that "you're much more in error than even I imagined," I have to wonder what else you may be "imagining."

Insofar as the "doctrine of the canon of Scriptures" is the doctrine by which Christians are called upon to believe that certain writings call Sacred Scripture are recognized by the Church as authoritative and inspired, the doctrine of the canon of Scriptures is indeed one of the most important doctrines of Christianity.

Although the "doctrine of the canon of Scriptures" is not THE most important doctrine - the most important doctrine being faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the Messiah who is both truly God and truly man - it is nevertheless very important in terms of its role in safeguarding as well as transmitting the deposit of the divinely revealed truths of the Christian faith.

But then, this begs the question as to how the early Christians first came to believe in Christ.

It is St. Paul who answers this question, saying:

Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ. Romans 10:17.

Note that St. Paul says HEARING, not READING the word of God.

If your rule of faith is the "Bible only," I am not the one in error. The "Bible only" rule - besides not being taught in the Bible, is not even historically correct!

Again, how did early Christians FIRST learn about Christ before the New Testament canon of Sacred Scripture was established? Historically, they HEARD the Gospel PREACHED by Peter and the Apostles and their immediate successors.

My oh my indeed!
 
Jude 9

“Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.”

It has been conjectured that the story of Michael contend­ing with the Devil is taken from the pseudepigraphal book Assumption of Mosis (i.e., Moses). Origen (c. 185-c. 254) has been credited with being the first one to offer this view. He maintained that a book was in existence in his time called The Assumption of Moses, but commentator Albert Barnes brings out a devastating observation:

There can be no reasonable doubt that such a book as Origen refers to, under the title of The Assump­tion of Moses, was extant [in existence] in his time, but that does not prove by any means that it was ex­tant in the time of Jude, or that he quoted it. There is, indeed, no positive proof that it was not extant in the time of Jude, but there is none that it was; and all the facts in the case will be met by the sup­position that it was written afterwards, and that the tradition on the subject here referred to by Jude was incorporated into it.[v]

In other words, there is no way of knowing exactly when this pseudepigraphal book was penned. Some insist that Jude quoted from this book, but who is to say that this unknown author didn’t quote from Jude? Moreover, as Barnes points out, there is more reason to believe the latter than there is the former.
 
Jude 14-15

“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Once again, some maintain that Jude here quotes from the Book of Enoch. But let us compare the above quotation (KJV) with that of the Book of Enoch:

Behold he comes with ten thou­sands of his saints, to execute judgement upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal, for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done and committed against him.(1:9).[vi]

While one writer makes the ridiculous statement, “Jude quotes almost verbatim” from the Book of Enoch, who can honestly say that those two are the same? Commentator Maxwell Coder points out a serious difference:

It is interesting to note that the unknown writer of the [pseudepigraphal] Book of Enoch revealed his ignorance of the truth by making Enoch say: “[He comes with ten thousands of his saints] to execute judgment on them . . .” Jude knew better than this. His epistle does not contain the error that the Lord will come to visit judgment on His people.[vii]

We should also add that, like verse 9, there is no proof that this spurious book even existed in Jude’s day. In fact, as William MacDonald submits in his excellent Believer’s Bible Commentary (quoting William Kelly):

[The Book of Enoch] has every mark of having been written subsequent to the destruction of Jerusalem [and therefore after Jude’s Epistle was written], by a Jew who still buoyed himself up with the hope that God would stand by the Jews.[viii]

As with verse 9 there is far more reason to think that the Book of Enoch was copied from Jude than vice versa.

“How, then, would Jude have learned of this ancient prophecy?” one might ask. By verbal inspiration! And to even ask such a question demonstrates one’s doubt of that very doctrine and his reliance upon human reason.

It should be crystal clear, therefore, that saying Jude quoted from the Book of Enoch is not only an “unwarranted assumption,”[ix] but that it’s also a statement that leaves one in a completely indefensible position. The facts simply do not warrant such a view.
 
I can't find "Rule #1 or Rule #2"
Where are they found ?
I know the Apostles Creed...
But I have a problem with
Christianity as an intellectual
weapon wherein one party who
claims to have the only version
of questionable history, lobs
ad hominem attacks at another
party who doesn't answer to
what the first party says is
the only legitimate authority
on earth.
I don't answer to the Pope.
Or Cardinals with big fish-
head hats wearing scarlet and
red in giant cathedrals, sporting
all manner of gold and silver
bling, amidst statues and icons.
I grew up in the Roman Church
and watched the "priests" at
cocktail parties smoking cigarettes
and telling jokes.
What do I need a human priest for ?
Jesus is High Priest of the Order
of Melchisadec. He is my all in
all. I believe that the Holy Ghost,
which Jesus termed the Spirit
of Truth has lead me in understanding
the Holy Scriptures, inasmuch
as I understand them. I've used many
different study guides over the years
but there's no substitute for reading
the Bible ones' self.
I'm just trying to "take in" the Bible
in the little time I have here on earth.
I don't have time for Vatican I or
Vatican II, or Papal decrees or Papal
bulls.
I'm amazed that anyone would
conclude that the present Papacy
is infallible and that every word
out of the Vatican is taken as equal
to the Bible.
I'm amazed that, IF the early
Roman Church is indeed responsible
for the canon of the scriptures as
you claim, (though other intellectuals
like yourself claim otherwise), that
somehow it follows that nearly two
thousand years later you would insist,
to the point of insulting people,
that this present vatican council
is still infallible, even though there
isn't one infallible man anywhere on
earth, according to the Bible.
It really seems to me that your God
IS the Roman Church.
I agree that faith cometh by hearing.
That's why I listen intently to a blessed,
gifted and sincere preacher every week
in a little church where poor souls
come in and repent and turn their
lives over to Christ quite often.
Later, many of them get baptized.
 
Muddled Paul

I applaud you for having the courage to speak THE TRUTH!

Some here will say you are being nasty and sarcastic, and are sure to jump all over you. But you have the support of many.
 
To both Ray B. & 'Muddled Paul':

Actually, it's really quite simple. Bottom line...if you would both just spend less time OBSESSING about Catholics (as in your determination to try to either trip them up, or take them down)...and instead, just concentrate on your own immortal soul -- this world and this blog would be a much better place!!!
 
To Ray B.

As you requested...

"WHAT MUST A CATHOLIC DO TO BE SAVED?"

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/
a54.htm
 
I have put an extremely important back issue of my former NEW AGE MONITOR (May 1989, 20 pages) up for free downloading. Click on the link "PRESENTATIONS FOR DOWNLOADING," where it is the third one from the top, starting with numbers 11011101. There are several critical articles on it that are becoming increasingly relevant again, including on the MANIFEST SONS OF GOD and A QUESTION FOR DAVE HUNT: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO HELL?

Constance
 
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