Thursday, July 03, 2008

SATAN NOW APPEARING NAKED IN HUMAN HISTORY?

Javier Solana and Nicolas Sarkozy -- Things are [obviously] cozy!

From time to time I have seriously recommended Fr. Seraphim Rose's excellent book. It is published by the St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood. It is entitled ORTHODOXY AND THE RELIGION OF THE FUTURE. He wrote the book from a Russian Orthodox perspective, but with a directness and a clarity that will benefit all seeking the truth. I wish I could have discussed the book with its author, but he died of pneumonia in a San Francisco hospital in 1982, the year my own work went national. A friend of mine, Marie Fisher, who then lived in Seattle checked the group out for me on a trip she made in the late 1980s to northern California. The difficult primitive living conditions of the author's monastic order no doubt made him more susceptible to the pneumonia that claimed him. He undoubtedly saw the same trends I viewed then with alarm -- the alarm that caused me to write THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW. He wrote that the years ahead promised to be more terrible than anyone could comprehend -- "it would appear that Satan is now entering naked into human history."

Today, ABC news reported a startling story. I don't know how much notice it obtained -- I had no opportunity to watch the news apart from just grasping what I could on the internet before retiring for the night (ok, the rest of the early morning at least -- it is now nearly 1 a.m.!).

A former local Democratic party leader for Durham, North Carolina was arrested along with her husband. She was reportedly a former Vice-Chairman. Both were accused of torture and sex crimes through their Order of the Golden Dawn type Satanic cult, Order of the Morning Star. Pictures shown on the TV clip further indicated a link to something calling itself "Indigo Dawn." Here is a link to its site. You may view it for yourself by going to ABC News and viewing "world news" videos. It was further alleged that the couple trapped, chained and starved their victims first.

This local Democratic party leader was an activist in the New Age Movement. She headed the local UN association. She wrote articles claiming that she had been told by her spirit guides that her role was to help usher in the New Age. Her articles detailing that may be read by clicking here. Here is a particularly interesting excerpt

"Another trigger for the New Age will be peace in the Middle East . . . Do not underestimate what humanity can achieve. Keep in mind that civilization started in the Middle East, so peace there is imperative to peace worldwide . . . I invite all of you to look at the Temple Mount and tell me if you can see enough space in between the two mosques to add another place of worship. Imagine the Temple of Solomon sitting in between the five mosques, and you will have perfect harmony on the Temple Mount . . . "
I wonder what Fr. Seraphim Rose would have said about that? I suspect he would not be surprised. I also suspect he would tell us we should face these times with prayerful sobriety. I further wonder how his religious order is faring in the Northern California fires?

Perilous times are clearly here. Stay tuned!





Comments: 1 – 200 of 254 Newer› Newest»
SPEAKING OF 'THE NEW AGE' AND NEW AGER ADMISSIONS OF WHAT IT IS REALLY ABOUT, READ THIS: http://tinyurl.com/3utzsm

Constance
 
This comment has been removed by the author.
 
http://tinyurl.com/4yj9t4

SORRY FOR THE CHOPPED OFF LINK -- this is a tinyurl that will take you to the articles by Joy Johnson, the accused former Democratic party leader in Durham and her husband, the two charged with the crime!
 
Joy Johnson's bio from Indigo Dawn site:

Joy Johnson has been a political, peace and social activist since her early teens. She has devoted her life to peace activism and searching for proactive means to bring about world peace.

As a child, Joy had many spiritual experiences and always felt she was never alone due to the presence of spirit guides. As a teenager, she spent much of her time studying various religions, yet none of them felt right to her. After traveling to Iraq on a peace mission, she became more and more drawn to the spiritual energy surrounding her. The Indigo Dawn started as a vision during a meditation where she was clearly shown the enlightenment glyph and given the name Indigo Dawn. She decided to explore the New Age community more, and after taking a course in Reiki healing, experiencing past life regression along with direct guidance from her spirit guides, she confirmed that her destiny was to help bring about the New Age on Earth. Joy shared her vision with her husband, Joe; as a result The Indigo Dawn was founded to raise the vibration of energy on Earth.


In 2000, Joy graduated from Cornell University, obtaining a B.S. in Human Biology, Health and Society. Joy was born in Fayetteville, N.C., and grew up in Raleigh, N.C., where she attended Millbrook High School. In high school, she revived the N.C. Association of Teen Democrats after it had been dormant for 10 years and served as president for two years.


Joy serves as president of the United Nations Association of Wake County. She is currently third vice chair of the Durham County Democratic Party as well as vice president of the Young Democrats in Durham County. She is also a member of the Human Relations Commission of Durham, N.C.


Joy has traveled to Israel/Palestine with the Israeli Committee against House Demolitions to witness the conflict between Israel and Palestine on the ground. Before the 2003 war, Joy traveled to Iraq with the Christian Peacemaker Team to put a human face on the situation and to share with Americans the truth about the effect of the Gulf War and the imposed sanctions on the Iraqi people. Meanwhile, she speaks about her experience in the Middle East on a regular basis to any interested groups."
 
This is off topic, but has anybody see this DVD about the Star of Bethlehem?

What did/do you think?

http://www.bethlehemstar.net

PEACE & GOD BLESS!
 
Just finished reading your latest blog article/links tonight Constance. Very interesting, although not my favorite bedtime reading! This report says there is now a third person in custody.
"Diana Palmer, the first vice chairwoman of the Durham Democratic Committee, turned herself into Durham authorities Wednesday on the charge of accessory after the fact of assault with a deadly weapon inflicting serious injury. Palmer is also a member of the party's State Executive Committee. Investigators say Palmer removed evidence from the alleged crime scene."
Here is a link to the story/video. Hopefully it will still be available by tomorrow.
-Rudi

http://tinyurl.com/4fejvf


http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6241123
 
Interesting that the New Age tie is not mentioned in the media stories. Thanks Constance. Your repeat of what I read at WND led me to share the information with others after I've become jaded with stories like this. I saw the story at WND and didn't want to pass it on. Over and over I share and don't seem to make a dent. It's so easy to become jaded after time.

Dorothy
 
World Net Daily had a story up about this. Here's the link:

http://tinyurl.com/6ehrek

Constance
 
Dear Zman:

I have had the DVD for several months now. It is interesting. What is more interesting is the section he has at the end (it is produced by a Christian lawyer) that shows there was a massive eclipse on the afternoon that Jesus was crucified -- the first Good Friday -- at precisely the time that the sky was darkened and the veil in the temple was rent.

Constance
 
Not since THE UNICORN'S SECRET have we had such a clear expose of the "New Age." Joy Johnson was a New Age's New Ager in every sense of the word. She headed the local UN Association. She wrote articles about the coming of the New Age -- rightfully comparing it with the Tower of Babel and the pre-flood world of Atlantis. Her only problem was that she thought it was good.

The SON OF SAM murderer, Sam Berkowitz, became a Christian after his incarceration. One of the books that he read that led to his conversion was my own, THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW. It is sad that he had to learn the truth that "Christians" cooperating with New Age interests such as those exemplified by Paul N. Temple (Doug Coe, Fellowship Foundation) or Unification Church (LaHaye, Falwell and all too many others) AFTER the possession and not before when he might have avoided the temptation.

The same goes here with Joyce Johnson. The article on the New Age fascinatingly discusses their plans for a new temple in Jerusalem. Read her articles carefully because the website is likely to disappear VERY QUICKLY. ARCHIVE EVERYTHING!

Constance
 
THE NEW AGE

by Joy Johnson (the Democratic party leader charged along with her husband with torture and murder)

"What is meant by the term “New Age”? The New Age has also been termed the “New Atlantis,” the “New Age,” the “Age of Aquarius,” “Age of Enlightenment” or the “New Jerusalem.”
It is a time of true enlightenment. There will be greater awareness of the spark of the divine that exists within us. There will be one people, one god, one world. There will be peace and unity as well as harmony with nature. The spiritual realms will merge as one, meaning that there will no longer be barriers between Heaven, Earth and other spiritual realms.
"Has a period like the coming New Age ever existed in history? There have been times when humanity was closely connected to the divine without barriers between the realms. Such periods include Atlantis, the Tower of Babel and the Garden of Eden. During the time of Atlantis, humans and spirits interacted on a regular basis. Humanity was near transcendence, and nearly anything was possible. Technology was so advanced that we could coexist with nature. At another point in time, humans built a tower toward the heavens so that they could be closer to the divine. We spoke the same language and were united as one, so nothing was impossible. This became known as the Tower of Babel. In the Garden of Eden, humanity’s senses were wide open to the divine and spiritual realms. Humans could smell, taste, hear, see and touch nature all at once. By combining the qualities of these periods of high spirituality and enlightenment, you can get a fairly good idea as to what life in the New Age will be like.
"How we can achieve this New Age? First, the energy vibration of the entire universe and humanity must be increased. We all must open our chakras and raise our own energy levels. If any of you have heard the 100th monkey story, then you can see how this is possible. Scientists were conducting studies on Japanese Macaques. They observed that a few of the monkeys got frustrated with all of the sand and dirt on their sweet potatoes, so they started washing them in the water. Shortly after, other monkeys followed suit. Eventually, all of the monkeys on the island washed their potatoes. What is most amazing, however, is later, across the ocean, monkeys are washing their potatoes. Enough monkeys had reached this awareness that energy levels raised enough so that ideas could be transmitted via energy and the mind even oceans apart. Obviously, if monkeys can do this, so can humans.
"Another trigger for the New Age will be peace in the Middle East. You may not think that there will ever be peace in that region. Well, that is simply not true. Do not underestimate what humanity can achieve. Keep in mind that civilization started in the Middle East, so peace there is imperative to peace worldwide. Also, there have been numerous conflicts in the Middle East, so if we can achieve peace there, it can happen anywhere. I will save the topic of Middle East peace for another essay, but for now, I invite all of you to look at the Temple Mount and tell me if you see enough space in between the two mosques to add another place of worship. Imagine the Temple of Solomon sitting in between the two mosques, and you will have perfect harmony on the Temple Mount. Ultimately, it will become apparent that many paths lead to the divine.
"Finally, the emergence of the Indigo children is crucial to bringing about the New Age. Indigo children are born with an indigo aura. Indigo is the color of the third-eye chakra, which represents psychic ability and clairvoyance. Indigo children have increased greatly in number since the 1970s; these children are spiritually gifted and will be the leaders of this New Age.
"I hope all of you now have a fuller understanding of the New Age and how we will achieve it. Each and every one of you has a purpose to contribute to bringing about the New Age. I am more than willing to help you find your path, so please feel free to contact me for guidance or questions.

by Joy Johnson"

http://www.theindigodawn.com/Indigo_Dawn/The_New_Age.html
 
Constance,

Her ideas seem strangely similar to Heinrich Eliyahu Benedict's ideas for the 3rd temple.

Joyce
 
Joyce,

Her website and the article indicates she personally went there -- she may well have been in on those "global shift" / "world shift" conferences.

Constance
 
A few corrections. First, Fr. Seraphim Rose was an ordained Orthodox priest. The proper and respectful way of referring to him is as, "Fr. Seraphim Rose." Secondly, Fr. Seraphim did not die from pneumonia. He essentially died from gangrene when he got a blood clot in his stomach that went untreated. Fr. Seraphim was an ascetic who is reputed to have kept a strict dietary fast in the later years of his life. Fr. Seraphim interpreted New Age phenomena through the lens of the Church Fathers and the writings of Orthodox monastics. One area Fr. Seraphim did not write about, however, but which is mentioned in the Appendix of the new edition of his book, is the role of secret societies in fostering the New Age. Craig Heimbichner's book, "Blood on the Altar," and Michael A. Hoffman's book,
"Secret Societies and Psychological Wafare," discuss this angle. The books are written in a clear style, though the subject matter is disturbing and frightening. I don't know if Fr. Seraphim would have seen knowledge about such things as spiritually wise or beneficial. When reading about these topics one has to be spiritually on guard and living an active Christian life. A fascination with these topics can be spiritually harmful, especially when one does nothing to repent or change one's life after being alerted to the techniques the occult conspirers use to shape behavior and attitudes. There is a social and spiritual alchemy being practiced upon us which we should not participate in after being made aware of it. The best antidote to this is living according to the Gospel and actively participating in the life of Christ.
 
project mockingbird &

project bluebeam &

MKULTRA

JB in CO
 
Constance,

You might search your own blog site. If I'm not mistaken, several people discussed Indigo children on here months ago. There was a link provided to a site similar to Indigo Dawn. As I recall, Leanna or Dawn had found some interesting information.

Deannie
 
Deannie,

I don't think it was me, but I was remembering someone's interesting research on the color blue, and it's use continually in the New Age circles. Seems like now we have the explanation.

Leana
 
The following July 2, 2008 article which was posted to Michael Brown's Spirit Daily site is from World Net Daily:

Another Democrat chief arrested in satanic torture
Victims allegedly shackled to beds, raped, locked in cages without food

http://tinyurl.com/6qr7am
_______________________________

The following related World Net Daily article is dated July 1,2008.
____________________________

Democratic Party official accused in satanic rape, kidnap
Woman, husband said to shackle victims to beds, keep them in dog cages without food

http://tinyurl.com/4na2tu


According to the July 2 article -

"Also today, Durham County's Democratic Party disabled its website, but a cached version of its "Who We Are" page lists both Palmer and Johnson as top officials."

Here is a link to the cached website for anyone in a hurry:

http://tinyurl.com/5w65qo
______________________________

According to the story for which Constance provided a link, Joy Johnson claimed to be a "Reiki healer."

As a Catholic, I have been taught -as have many other Christians - that Reiki comes under the heading of "New Age Occultism."

Unfortunately, there are certain Roman Catholics - including nuns - who don't think that there is anything wrong with Reiki.

Just a few years ago, a friend of mine who was recovering from major surgery told me a visiting nurse was offering to give her a Reiki massage, but she wouldn't allow it because she felt that for some reason it didn't pass the smell test.

Needless to say, I set her straight real fast, and told her that there wasn't a thing wrong with her spiritual "olfactory capabilities."

From what I have studied, Reiki appears to have certain similarities to the so-called "animal magnetism" that was all the rage among occultists of the 18th and 19th centuries. Mesmer even started a species of "clinic" along masonic lines called the "Lodge of Harmony" and later the "Society of Harmony."

The Reiki people do not appear to want to make a big issue out of the Reiki - Animal Magnetism similarities.

Here are a couple of links. I leave it for readers here to draw
their own conclusions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesmerism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reiki

http://tinyurl.com/4722f4

This is from the Esalen Center:

http://tinyurl.com/5dmkgm
 
Constance,

Well done indeed for drawing attention to Father Seraphim Rose's excellent book "Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future." Also, Seraphim Rose is tipped to be a Saint.

But anyway, by "Satan now appearing naked in human history" Rose specifically meant the growing number of UFO sightings and encounters, which Rose described as a daemonic, not extra-terrestrial phenomenon.

Here are my favourite quotes from that book:

"The goals of the New-Age include a "convergence of religions" in tandem with a "confluence" of political and economic forces toward World Government. The plan for a New World Order would include a universal credit system, a universal tax, a global police force, and an international authority that would control the worlds food supply and transportation systems."

"All forms of Discrimination would cease, and peoples' allegiance to tribe or nation will be replaced by a planetary conciousness"

"It should be pointed out that many New-Agers today would not be aware of, much less subscribe to, all the point of "The Plan". As we have seen, the movement incorporates a diverse array of groups, ideas and practices. If it can be called a "conspiracy", this is certainly not because all New Agers are working together secretly, o an organizational level, toward fulfilllment of "The Plan". Ultimately, "The Plan" is being orchestrated not on a human but on a demonic level, and the architects of the New Age movement are, to a large degree, only mouthpieces of ideas that are not their own"

"Alice Bailey [a UN ideologue] in the 1940s wrote: "the expressed aims and efforts of the United Nations will be eventually brought to fruition, and a new church of God, gathered out of all religions and spiritual groups, will unitedly bring to an end the great heresy of separateness"

"William Swing, Episcopal Bishop of California and founder/director of the United Religions Initiative, expressed it in his book The Coming United Religions: "The time comes ... when common language and a common purpose for all religions and spiritual movements must be discerned and agreed upon. Merely respecting and understanding other religions is not enough."

On Denatured Christianity: "Although not all globalists share the specifically religious goals, they are certainly united in their view of what kind of religion will not fit into the one-world system they are working to create. Conservative, traditional adherents of a religion, who believe that their religion is a unique fulfilment of the fullness of the truth, will not be welcome in the "global village". As Paul Chaffe, board member of the United religions Initiative, said in 1997: "We can't afford fundamentalists in a world this small." The same view was expressed at the 1998 State of the World Forum, Jim Garrison announced: "If my theology is an impediment, than I have to get rid of my theology."

"Also in 1998, this subject was discussed in some detail by one of the more recent ideologues of the "new religious consciousness," Ken Wilber. A popular author whose works have been praised and avidly studied by both former President Clinton and Al Gore, Wilber outlined the agenda that the world must follow in order to combine science with religion, as well as to establish a "Universal Theology" [Global Warming anyone?] which all religions can embrace without losing their outward differences. "Religions" the world over will have to bracket their mythic beliefs," and he cites as examples Moses parting the Red Sea, Christ born of a virgin etc"

"Wilber than says "only those who embrace the new religious consciousness, or who at least bracket their religious beliefs, will survive in the coming global society, which Wilber says will be marked by a "worldcentric" awareness based in "universal pluralism"."

"Unity in Diversity, destroys diversity. If an adherant to a religion believes that all other religions are equal to his own, he can no longer truly hold to that religion; he can no longer be who he is. He becomes a blank - a blank waiting to be filled with a new revelation. There is only sameness based on blankness. This false "unity in diversity" is precisely what Satan will use in order to hypnotize the mass mind in the last days. And if you have no particular religious belief and give yourself over to some kind of vague idea, then the demons come in and begin to act."

Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future"
 
To the commentator on Fr. Seraphim Rose. Thank you for the clarification. The information I had been given from Orthodox sources was that he had died of pneumonia. I was sent his book from another Orthodox priest in, I believe, approximately 1986 or so. Can't say for sure now. I hope you are not accusing of undue fascination. But you are absolutely right in that Fr. Rose's advice that living a Godly life is necessary to overcome. I remind you that scripturally, we were also instructed not to be ignorant of the devices of Satan. Far too many are. Fr. Rose's book helped dispel some of the ignorance. I hope that my work helped in some small way as well.

Constance
 
To the commentators on "search your own blogspot." I have been long aware of the Indigo children aspect of the NAM -- I have the book. The "Indigo Dawn" was new to me, but I immediately suspected it was more of the same. Thanks!

Constance
 
I believe those quotes are from later editions of the book -- I will have to order a new copy to see what changes were made in Fr. Seraphim Rose's original work. When he wrote that it appears that Satan is "now entering naked into human history," my original version (not the post-humous one) referred as I recall to "mass suicide" as one terrible thing increasing on the horizon. I believe he wrote that post Jim Jones People Temple.

Constance
 
I find it interesting that she speaks about the world of atlantis, hitler was also a strong believer in ushering in a "new age" atlantis.

I'm curious to know what some of you think about the Christ bloodline heresy that has just recently really gained attention (through the davinci code) and its possible link to the future false messiah.

When all know that there will be a "great apostasy" that will decieve the world and I strongly believe that this supposed bloodline of the Royal house of David (which would decieve the Jewish people still waiting on their messiah) and bloodline of Jesus will play a huge part in ushering in the anti-christ.

Check out grailcode.net

it has some great information regarding these bloodline heresies, the role of secret societies, and the future satanic new age lead by the antichrist.

Trust in Jesus,

Philip
 
Dear Constance:

No, I was not accusing you of undue fascination. Fr. Seraphim, and other Orthodox writers, have warned about becoming too focused or interested in occult phenomena. A danger with research into these areas can be an overwhelming sense that evil is more powerful than Good. When one reads about secret societies and the extent to which occult techniques for control are used in modern day political stagecraft and media, one can begin to despair. The work by Heimbichner and Hoffman are particularly dark in this regard. But, as you point out, we must also warn others. However, what we must also offer them is the Truth of the Gospel. We must realize that the conspiracy is spiritual in nature. When we research these matters we are, in many ways, running reconnaissance behind enemy lines. There is reason to suspect that the fallen powers may see what we are reading. As a result, we may expose ourselves to spiritual attacks. Spending too much time behind enemy lines can, in this regard, cloud our mind. That is why it is important to always balance reading and research in these areas with readings from the Gospel, prayer, and repentence. By the way, great work in your Dangers of the Rainbow book. Another important document you might check is a study prepared by the Stanford Research Institute back in the early 70s for the Kettering Foundation entitled, "The Changing Images of Man." You used to be able to request a copy of this from SRI. Don't know if it is still available, however.
 
Susanna,

I see your link to Esalen. Have you read:

Esalen, America and the Religion of No Religion

http://tinyurl.com/4vpntz

Homophobic Horse's quote:

On Denatured Christianity: "Although not all globalists share the specifically religious goals, they are certainly united in their view of what kind of religion will not fit into the one-world system they are working to create. Conservative, traditional adherents of a religion, who believe that their religion is a unique fulfilment of the fullness of the truth, will not be welcome in the "global village". As Paul Chaffe, board member of the United religions Initiative, said in 1997: "We can't afford fundamentalists in a world this small." The same view was expressed at the 1998 State of the World Forum, Jim Garrison announced: "If my theology is an impediment, than I have to get rid of my theology."

Made me think of this. I've not read the book, but it sounds interesting, in a twisted, New Age way.

Deannie
 
Deannie,

I have not read "Esalen, America and the Religion of No Religion," but it sounds like it would be interesting. I will have to add it to my list of books to read.

I am familiar with Werner Erhard and his enterprise.

Are you aware of Erhard's relationshiop with Scientology?

http://tinyurl.com/5nw3s7
http://tinyurl.com/umjhx

Scientologists allege that Erhard stole their materials.

Erhard's enterprise known as "The Forum" has made it into Rick Ross's cult awareness "hall of fame" along with EST and "Landmark Education."

THE FORUM

http://tinyurl.com/6hxgm5

LANDMARK EDUCATION

http://tinyurl.com/2pfgpj

EST

http://tinyurl.com/5l3ohs
 
All of Joy Johnson's -aka Indigo Dawn-pages are gone now. You can try to read the cache...but they are starting to 'disappear' too. Tried to find the one on Iraq...oh well.
 
Dorothy,

We all get discouraged from time to time.

It turns out that even Mother Teresa used to get discouraged.

But one time when asked if she was disappointed in not being more successful in her mission, Mother Teresa replied:

"God has not called me to be successful. He has called me to be faithful."
 
I tried to post a comment here earlier today and my server crashed. (Getting to be very common these days.)
Anyhow, I was trying to print the stuff off the Indigo dawn website as Constance instructed, and my printer went into a spooler tailspin. I tried the hubby's computer and the same thing happened. Interestingly, when I went to the NC democratic headquarters cached page, the page printed with no problems at all. Just wondered if anyone else had printing problems today?
When I couldn't print I tried saving and burning the webpages to a cd. CD was promptly corrupted. This is getting real, real old, folks and rather discouraging.
I happened to find this post over on myspace about Johnson and saved it.
http:tinyurl.com/5ml6rh
Last paragraph in Dave Garber's post said that Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill are considered a golden triangle for the Illuminati according to someone named Svali, whoever that is. Just thought that was interesting as my son went to a private Quaker boarding school in the 1990's. He befriended a kid from Chapel Hill. The kid's mother was a prof at UNC-Chapel Hill. The kid was into the occult and his best friend committed suicide. Don't know what ever happened to the kid as he was kicked out of the school rather quickly. Sad. So very, very sad. Anyone notice the biography on the Indigo dawn website about the young board member named Alin Tiberiu Lacatus? Incredibly demonic bio but I could not for the life of me print his bio for future posterity.
Dorothy, don't be discouraged. You're doing a great job.
 
Oops. Link won't work. It's this one.
http://tinyurl.com/5ml6rh

One last thought. Saw resemblences in the indigo/dawn website logo and that darned hidden seal on the Obama website. Still think that bird is the occultic phoenix.
Found this info on a site about the phoenix and thought it highly significant that the phoenix is considered the brother of europa!

"Phoenix 1, brother of Europa or perhaps her father, was son either of Agenor 1 or of Belus 1; these two descend from Libya, daughter of Epaphus 1, son of Io. After Phoenix 1, they say, Phoenicia was called."

http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/PhoenixTheBird.html
 
The story behind this blog post is as disturbing as all the stories of missionaries being kidnapped, tortured all over the world, even in our own country.

If Jewish and Christian people don't wake up and start publically condemning this kind of stuff, our fate may well parallel history.

We have someone building a new church in our neighborhood, as far as I can tell, just a regular church, but every day it seems like their site is desecrated, vandalized, etc. Lots of upside down crosses spray painted on the signs, burnings, etc.

I know that the persecution others have endured throughout history has been severe, but it seems to follow the same prescribed path. If we can't rally together and show what is happening in our communities, then I fear we are all next.

I was going to provide a link to back up my story, but I can't find that it was even reported on.

Leana
 
The Bethleham Star stuff is so
cool !
Gods creation is so way cool.
 
Christians supporting Obama need to remember no man can serve two masters....or 57 masters. He is attempting to appear to be all things to all people. His sparse history makes him appear to be a blank slate on which people feel they can write their own message. What's clear to me are his communist and leftist ties, his occult iconography, his leftist voting record, and his promotion by the New Age website.

Here is information on a new Christian PAC supporting him.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Matthew25Network

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/new-pac-seeks-to-court-christians-for-obama/ or
http://tinyurl.com/3vqvaf

Dorothy
 
This may seem far from all of the organizational details connected with the New Age movement, but that's not true. What is happening in Europe is a precursor to what will happen here in the US. As consolidation takes place and ordinary individuals have no more say, decisions are left to bureaucrats who are very willing to sell out to protect their own positions.

I didn't realize how severe the situation in England has become until I read the comments following the story linked to.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1031350/Murdered-robbers-Genius-French-students-mobile-phones-stolen-London-flat.html#comments or
http://tinyurl.com/5z9x8q

While organizational details are intellectually challenging, watching what is happening around us, as Leanna reported, needs to be analyzed and reported on.

Dorothy
 
Today's Jerusalem Post:

http://tiny.cc/fzi1x

You'll have to check quickly because the articles don't stay up long, but the Saudis are inviting Israel to a talk in Madrid.

In addition, go look at Holly Pivic's site that talks about Solana saying time is short for Mideast peace.

Joyce
 
Sorry for the long post. Those who are familiar with my rambling will just skip over this, but if your undecided about Obama don't be deterred
http://www.christianadc.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=38840
http://tinyurl.com/5o62ym

“And if there’s an Arab American family that’s being rounded up by John Ashcroft without the benefit of due process, that threatens my civil liberties.”

“I'm a big believer in tolerance. I think that religion at it's best comes with a big dose of doubt. I'm suspicious of too much certainty in the pursuit of understanding just because I think people are limited in their understanding.”

If you, my fellow bloggers, posters, and friends will allow me some license to muse on these two quotes, I would draw your attention to the ostensible certainty that BHO has in the treat of his civil liberties; some of us weigh these issue above the national life itself; better that the State die than there be an encroachment on my civil liberties.
Also I would quote from the A DECLARATION in the 4 of July 1776:
“We therefore the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, assembled. Appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance of the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”
May I say it takes “CERTAINTY” to say these things; the loss of everything mortal and material was at stake. Some of you may have seen the horror of the Palestinian killing with the tractor this week? He was certain in his hatred, and I wonder if some of that hatred veils the eyes of those apprenticed 20 years or so with The Rev. Wright?
Regardless, the last quote I give you is New Age at its core:
“GG: What do you believe?
OBAMA: I am a Christian. So, I have a deep faith. So I draw from the Christian faith.
On the other hand, I was born in Hawaii where obviously there are a lot of Eastern influences. I lived in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world, between the ages of six and 10. My father was from Kenya, and although he was probably most accurately labeled an agnostic, his father was Muslim. And I'd say, probably, intellectually I've drawn as much from Judaism as any other faith. “
There are existential treats from many quarters, my concern is not so much for myself in these things, but for my children, for your children and grandchildren; the Red sea is before us, and a cultural flood is raging toward sweeping our history into oblivion; our love of pleasure, self, and money cause us to look away while the “Nazis prepare the ovens.” I, with tears in my eyes, sorrow so for that which we have given up and which is about to befall us.
“For then shall there be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor shall ever be.” Jesus is speaking with CERTAINTY.
Forgive my emotional expression, but please read the BHO interview. I think our descent will be obvious.
 
you all need to hear Ron Paul's latest speech. I know we need to look at the bigger picture, but he is warning us about something very soon to happen. I am not a fan of his or anyone but our Lord and Savior.

JB in CO
 
Setterman,
Maybe God is giving us over to what we asked for. The Bible says a strong delusion will come over and it seems like we live in days were many are susceptible to delusion, so I comfort myself in knowing these things have to take place, before Yeshua comes back. Obama may be one of the catalysts. Not a happy thought but he does seem like a good candidate to help rebuild the Tower of Babel.

He seems like the perfect AoC kind of guy, so if he wins and begins helping with the UN Millennium Development Goals, I won't be at all surprised. It's time for people who are serious about the Scriptures to really grow in knowledge and truth of what they say because my prediction is that we're in for a rough ride, and I'm not a prophetess.

My comfort is the rest we have in Yeshua. His finished work allows us to have true rest, knowing that He and He alone has defeated Satan, so we don't have to be anxious for the days ahead, so we can cease and focus on what He has already accomplished and rest in our identity as a new creation in Him. That's what Shabbat is all about, so this is just a reminder to all of you. We will be doing it forever..

Is. 66:23 “And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the LORD.

In the meantime, it's a dress rehearsal and God's loving instruction to His children to teach them about Himself. It's not a burden, but a delight. Yeshua is our Sabbath rest and their remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God ( Heb 4:9).

The only command is that we cease from our own labors and rest in Him. Yeshua, the living Torah provides the manna that we require in the Wilderness if we only listen to His voice and He will give us a double portion, so we will never be lacking. Today's Torah portion is about the red heifer and the death of Miriam and Aaron in the Wilderness. There are so many riches in these passages from Numbers 19:1 -22:1.

It's interesting that in Israel they are preparing the priestly garments and they are still waiting for a perfectly unblemished red heifer. We know of one who already came. He was also the Passover Lamb.

Num. 19:2 “This is the statute of the law which the LORD has commanded, saying, ‘Speak to the sons of Israel that they bring you an unblemished red heifer in which is no defect and on which a yoke has never been placed.

The red heifer was killed outside the camp and then burned with cedar wood, hyssop and scarlet. It was used with water to remove impurity. Some familiar elements here? The one who removed our impurities was also killed outside the camp. He was also unblemished. There's a lot more to say about these passages, but this is not the forum. As we realize the days that we live in, we should take some time to reflect and not become overwhelmed with the darkness, but realize Yeshua's return is probably not far off. Hebraic thought has many built in reminders. Just wanted to share a little hope today.


Shabbat shalom,
Joyce
 
To Joyce:
Thanks so much for the uplifting words this morning!
To Setterman: Your thoughts regarding BHO echo my own completely, and I've discussed some of the things that you just pointed out in my most recent blog post:
http://tinyurl.com/5kot8c

There is so much more that I want to write about his book "Dreams of my Father", but i am one of those blogs that is having trouble refreshing thanks to google and blogger. If you can't refresh, you can't post!

Anyhow, there is another chapter in his book, where his maternal grandfather encourages Obama's relationship with an elderly Negro named Frank. There was a story going around the Internet for awhile about Frank's ties to the Communist party, but that story was removed as quickly as Joy Johnson's blog was removed yesterday.

I have been wondering about something and hope someone here can help. I know that there is a general consensus here that the Antichrist will come out of a revived roman empire in the last days, which of course has pointed everyone towards Solana and the EU. But can someone here give me the bible verses that have led so many (including the pastor of my church) to believe that? I am just curious, and although I have read the prophecies in Daniel, Revelations, 2Thessalonians 2, Matthew24, etc, etc, many times, I have not been led to come to that conclusion myself. What am I missing here? If there are specific bible verses (and I'm sure that there are) that have led people to these conclusions, can someone please point me in that direction?
 
Dorothy,

Here is an interesting news article fromSan Francisco:

http://tinyurl.com/6yr7j6


Apparently, being a sanctuary city means illegals "youths" are not only not held accountable for being in the country illegally, but they are also not to held accountable for dealing crack cocaine. Read the comments that follow - a lot of PC nonsense but also, a lot of anger.

Grasshopper, I heard Obama's mentor discussed on talk radio. I believe the man's name is Frank Thomas and he was a well known member of the Communist party. The proof still exists but the mainstream press won't pick up the story until after the election. We'll find out a lot about him after he's elected. And just wait till he's secured a second term....yikes.

Deannie
 
Its really interesting to me to see your post recalling Fr. Seraphim Rose. I tell you less than one hour ago, while exercising on my elliptical, he came to my mind and I thought about how he understood so clearly the current state of our world and where we were headed. I thought he was lucky in a sense not to have to live in it anymore, God forgive me. I get so tired sometimes. Thanks for all you are doing. I am a loyal reader.
 
Joyce,
You may not be a prophetess per se, but the
"testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophesy"
(Rev.19:10)
 
Young Grasshopper,
Accuracy in Media (AIM) did the study on Obama's communist ties.
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/ or
http://tinyurl.com/25j8qv

Also:
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/journalism/TK8UK4TJCACQTVK16
Drudge Censors Ads on Reports About Obama-Communism Link
Two veterans of investigations into Communist influence on the U.S. political process have released two blockbuster reports on Barack Obama's ties with agents of the Moscow-controlled Communist Party USA and ...
http://newsblaze.com/story/20080701161052tsop.nb/topstory.html


Setterman,
If this Pew study is accurate, and I say this because Pew is not an objective source, then more who call themselves Christians think as Obama does than as you describe they should.
http://religions.pewforum.org/
Two comments:

In the Jewish community the spectrum of beliefs is very wide, everything from Orthodox Judaism to Humanistic Judaism, although the survey presents the Jewish position as if all Jews thought alike. Probably the same has beend done with the other groups to present a picture of across the board liberal faith in America.

New Age is represented as a faith along with Pagan, Wiccan in the Other Faiths section.

Dorothy
 
Maryanne,

The reason that people say this, although not everyone agrees, is because the statue representing the kingdoms in Daniel 2 speaks of the last kingdom which is made out of iron and clay. This is assumed by many to be a resurrected Roman Empire because it contains the element of the previous empire which was Rome. There are people who think the world will divided into 10 regions and that the empire will be global in nature, so not everyone agrees with the premise about it being Europe. Personally, I think it is very interesting that Europe has come back together after all these years and the map of their proposed trade free zone resembles the Ancient Roman Empire, including Israel.

http://ec.europa.eu/world/enp/index_en.htm

This region is strategic for many reasons, and the EU is a spiritual vacuum where secret societies and paganism thrive. The State of Israel was formed because of the Shoah, and the British Empire had an incredible role in the Mideast mess we see today.

In Daniel 7:24-26 it talks about a king who will arise out of the fourth kingdom which has 10 kings and he would meet the description of the anti-messiah.

I think it's important to note that there are elements of the other empires throughout the world, so we see elements of Bablyon in Europe. For example, before Hitler came to power the Gates of Hell were brought from Iraq to Berlin, and the Temple of Pergamum ( where Satan has his throne) is also in Berlin. Hitler was tapping into occult power of the Babylonian empire. His fascination with Tibetan Buddhism is interesting too. He was follower of Theosophy, which has deeply impacted the UN through the writings of Alice Bailey, Robert Muller etc.

All that to say, we can have elements of the other empires in every nation on earth, but the EU along with the help of the UN seems to be fitting the description of that last empire.

When God scattered and confused the languages after the Tower of Babel was built, the mystery religions found their home in many different nations, but took on different names in each place where they were spread. The Greek civilization, which is part of Daniel's statue has impacted most of the world today in profound ways.

I have my suspicions about Daniel 2, 7 etc, but personally I will watch and wait until I see confirmation of the Scriptures before I will point my finger at the antimessiah. We know for sure, he will go into the holy place and stop the sacrifice, so I'm willing to wait and see who confirms a covenant with many and when the Temple is rebuilt, who will stop the sacrifices. Some people believe all of this was already fulfilled in 70a.d. I am not one of those people. Titus, like Hitler was a type of anti-messiah.

It does look like the EU is going to play a major role in the Mideast peace process and that there is a "resurrection of the Roman Empire" with the Barcelona Process and the EuroMed Partnership, Mediterranean Union, etc. Some think that the antimessiah will be a Muslim because of the role of Islam in the world today and they believe that the headband that Muslims wear is the mark that we will take. I don't believe this either, although it's true that many elements of jihad resemble description of end times, not to mention beheading which we see in the Book of Revelations.

For years people have remarked that there is no USA in Bible, so maybe it's been destroyed? I don't know about that, but it seems like US's power is being undermined today with our weak currency and poor image on the world stage. Can Obama turn it around? I think he will just join the global club and mix with the crowd. He will not be concerned about our sovereignty.

I find it interesting to see Islam and the EU playing a role together, and yet like the iron and clay, they really don't mix well. Iron certainly harkens back to the Roman Empire, but what is the clay? Some say iron represents an industrial civilizations, which Rome clearly was historically. Clay, could represent wealth that comes from the ground? Oil? Interesting idea, but I'm not sure. Those are some of my thoughts, but I'll suspend judgement until I see more. As the plan unfolds, I'm sure it will become crystal clear. Don't know if that helps?

Joyce
 
To: Homophobic Horse

I am reading those quotes -- I have ordered the book. Fr. Rose died in 1982 and obviously those quotes were added in a later revision by others. Part of it sounds amazingly like material in my 1983 released THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW and also like work done by another, Lee Penn, who I understand also admired Fr. Rose's book. Lee Penn's book is FALSE DAWN and it is about Rev. Swing and URI. That is also required reading.

Thanks for calling those passages to my attention.

CONSTANCE
 
Hi Deannie,

Yes, I have been aware of both Werner Erhard and his former relationship with Scientology right from the beginning. My very first radio interviews on the New Age Movement mentioned him as did my book, HIDDEN DANGERS. There was tremendous rivalry from those perceiving the New Age as a pocketbook filler -- i.e., among the "hypnotizers." Erhard blended Scientology with Psychocybernetics, Swami Muktananda, Benjamin Creme and everything else. I used to say, "and getting IT is GETTING POSSESSED." I also loved to quote Michael Ross's book, NEW AGE BLUES where he wrote about those telling him he should EXPERIENCE EST, that "no thanks, I can smell it from here. I don't have to walk through it to know what it is."

The Scientologists who indebted people for tens of thousands of dollars for "auditing" -- classes they signed them up for "more enlightening" when they were already in an altered states for earlier doses of same, resented Werner Erhard for what they called "squirreling," i.e., taking their material and mass marketing it at lower prices than the Scientologists offered.

Constance
 
Dear Zman:

THANKS for the most important information. I also cautiously remind all of Fr. Seraphim Rose's most important quote: "THOSE WHO SAY HE IS ANYWHERE HERE, ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE TEMPLE OF JERUSALEM, ARE TRULY PROPHETS OF THE ANTICHRIST, THE FALSE CHRIST WHO MUST COME FIRST AND DECEIVE THE WHOLE WORLD . . ."

Here is a tinyurl link to the spot as well:

http://tinyurl.com/68ufta

Constance
 
Good news! I followed my usual practice of ARCHIVING EVERYTHING and I saved all while it was still a breaking news story. It was a miracle I found it at all -- I had not read the WND story nor seen any news that day. I came home and turned on the program that follows the 11:30 news on NBC and they were asking for online comments on a Denver singer who substituted the words of LIFT EVERY VOICE AND SING for the National Anthem, THE STAR SPANGLED BANNER. Looking at that, I saw a side headline about a NC Democratic party official charged with sex crimes in connection with a Satanic cult. Looking back, that's similar to how I made my original discoveries on Javier Solana on November 22, 1995 -- a side headline on the Israeli Eilat earthquake read: "EU, ISRAEL ENTER INTO TREATY . . ."

Constance
 
Joyce,

Thanks for the very important information on the Saudi invitation and the Madrid conference. I have archived it.

Constance
 
With the Muslims being willing to hold "peace talks" with Jews and Christians we might have a Temple sooner than we think. We have always assumed that the Dome of the Rock would need to be destroyed to build the 3rd Temple, but different archeologists have different views about exactly where the holy of holies is..Some do not agree that it is directly under the mosque. There are other strict rules about the construction of the Temple, but people have been waiting so long, they might be willing to wave them to see it constructed. The rabbis never agree anyway, so even if perfect conditions existed you might have conflicts.

In order for the Muslims to accept a Temple next to the Al Aksa mosque, they will have to get a lot and it will have to be sanctioned by the top Muslim leaders of Saudi Arabia & Jordan, etc. They would probably need some scholars to come out and say that this is in keeping with Islamic law. Could it be the same 138 scholars who wrote A Common Word, sponsored by the Jordanian royal family. Could the Alliance of Civilizations provide the forum to discuss these differences and iron them out?

Could the academic support of all of the Islamic study programs of the Saudi Prince, including Harvard, Georgetown, Oxford etc. provide the other support necessary to bring the West into agreement that this is the way to go?

If you hear about a red heifer without blemish keep your ears open.

Many Jews are waiting for Maschiach to build the 3rd Temple, so that would fit with the anti-messiah being involved in the building of the 3rd Temple.

Joyce
 
I wish that I had archived the article that I read at least ten years ago in Discovery magazine, I think.
It was about an American rancher/farmer who has been raising a particular type of red heifer for, even then, a number of generations and he was raising them for the express purpose of shipping them off to Israel at the request of a priestly group there.
The ranchers' last name was Lot. I remember that but I'm not sure about which magazine it was, or exactly what year. There was a picture of Mr Lot and one of his prize heifers. It was a deep maroon color and of course it was spotless.
I'm pretty sure they've already got a whole breeding herd of them there in Israel.
 
Many of the people here see a spiritual momentum behind the emergence of Obama.

I would like to offer a different perspective.

Apart from Mrs. Cumbey, who has her own law practice (although I don't think she's indepently wealthy by any means, or presumably she would have shut her practice years ago to write and lecture full-time), I don't know what various people who read here do for a living. I don't know their individual economic and social circumstances, factors which shouldn't really matter much but, in the United States we live in today, are overwhelmingly and increasingly how one's personal worth, "social acceptability", and societal usefulness are judged.

Do you have union jobs (such as that of public school teaching) where your job security and pension entitlements are fiercely guarded? Are you in a "corporate" environment where you are so popular and "well connected" (i.e. political clout) that your future seems reasonably secure? Do you have a lot of money saved, maybe money you earned through hard work, or inherited, or some combination of both? Are you in a profession like nursing, where demand seems to continually outstrip supply to the point where it is very easy to move from job to job? Have you spent the last thirty years with a company where you are fortunate enough, upon retirement, to be able to draw from that vanishing breed of entitlements called a final average plan?

Like most people in America these days, are you are struggling and just scraping by? Are you living alone with an insecure present and future, bearing fears, worries, and problems about both physical and emotional survival, essentially on your own, invisible amidst family-oriented individuals who seem oblivious to this alternate reality?

Look around you for a minute, outside your own four walls or the perimeters of your local shopping center. The middle class is becoming extinct in this country. It is disappearing before our very eyes. What happens, politically speaking, when the middle class disappears? Well, a cursory review of history will show that society shifts sharply, en masse, to either the Left or to the Right.

Maybe we are focusing on the wrong questions here, or at least focusing on only certain questions at the expense of extremely pertinent other ones.

What, as individuals, have you done to try to try to repair or strenghten what little social fabric is left in American life? And no, I'm not talking about what you do within your own nuclear family. I am talking about the community fabric, which extends far beyond your own four walls.

For those of you who have been blessed with extra money, do you bank it for your future, or invest it in the stock market, commodoties, or real estate? Or do you take a look around at those not so fortunate (family, friends, acquantances) and do something substantial (and discreetly) to actually help them? I mean something real, not just a hug and an "I am praying for you, hon."

Do you reach out to your neighbor in a meaningful way? Do you even know whether any of your neighbors are coping with illness or financial worries? Or is poverty, unemployment, illness, tragedy, downward social mobility, etc. something that happens to "other people," not to me and my family?

Do your actions actually live up to the very clear preachings of the Gospel, or do you focus on limited parts of the Gospel that you are comfortable with?

If you are wondering how I could possibly have the gall to pose these questions to you, a group of strangers, let me make it very clear: These are questions that I ask myself on a regular basis.

Obama is surfing the crest of a wave that we, children of affluence who worship at the altar of individualism, have created. This is all very predictable. You don't need to know about or understand the evils of yoga and Reiki to see it. I think the overarching problem here is far more simple.
 
Joyce,
Thanks once again for your insightful help. I had no idea the Nebuchadnezzar statue related to political empires throughout the centuries. The clay is definitely an enigmatic element- many things come to mind.

I agree with you that it's best to wait it out and watch history unfold before drawing any concrete conclusions, though there are certainly some interesting players on the world stage at the moment.

Dorothy,
Thanks for that link to the Cliff Kincaid article about Frank. It was very helpful today in a discussion I was having with a loved one about BO.
 
To anonymous 5:16

You make some excellent points. I certainly am not wealthy and in no way are we prepared for retirement although we are at the age for same. Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan and biblical warnings of "neither to the right hand nor to the left, but strictly in the paths of God . . ." come to mind here. It is in human despair that people often gravitate to New Age solutions which are no solutions!

Constance
 
Joyce: Very interesting and thoughtful speculation about the Temple! I've heard from various sources for 15-20 years, including the Ritmeyers, who've done extensive studying of the Temple Mount, that the Dome is nowhere near the original location of the First or Second Temples. But the Muslims go nuts when anybody even thinks about building anything up there. Meanwhile, these same Muslims drop rocks on worshippers at the Wailing Wall, and are actively engaged in the destruction of ancient Jewish artifacts found while excavating on the Mount, and grinding them to dust, while denying their existence, the existence of Jewish Temples, and even of Jewish history in the region. It will be interesting to see what deal is made, but it will be glorious when Messiah returns to set everything straight. Will
 
Anonymous 5:16
Although you've made a nice set of comments, I have no idea what they have to do with Obama's real nature or what he has done. Obama talks a good game, but he is a phoney, plain and simple.

Here's just one example.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/353829,CST-NWS-rez23.article or
http://tinyurl.com/274gql

"...For more than five weeks during the brutal winter of 1997, tenants shivered without heat in a government-subsidized apartment building on Chicago's South Side.

"It was just four years after the landlords -- Antoin "Tony'' Rezko and his partner Daniel Mahru -- had rehabbed the 31-unit building in Englewood with a loan from Chicago taxpayers.

"Rezko and Mahru couldn't find money to get the heat back on.

"Senator Obama does not remember having conversations with Tony Rezko (inset) about properties that he owned" — Obama’s campaign staff on Sunday.
(Sun-Times/AP)

"Obama's ex-boss a Rezko partner

"Staff reporter Tim Novak examines previously unreported government-funded, low-income housing deals involving Antoin "Tony" Rezko, the indicted political fund-raiser.
Rezmar kept getting city and state funding, even as earlier projects fell into disrepair and financial troubles. Rezko and Mahru couldn't find money to get the heat back on.

"But their company, Rezmar Corp., did come up with $1,000 to give to the political campaign fund of Barack Obama, the newly elected state senator whose district included the unheated building.

"Obama has been friends with Rezko for 17 years. Rezko has been a political patron to Obama and many others, helping to raise millions of dollars for them through his own contributions and by hosting fund-raisers in his home....
The building in Englewood was one of 30 Rezmar rehabbed in a series of troubled deals largely financed by taxpayers. Every project ran into financial difficulty. More than half went into foreclosure, a Chicago Sun-Times investigation has found.

"Their buildings were falling apart,'' said a former city official. "They just didn't pay attention to the condition of these buildings.''

"Eleven of Rezko's buildings were in Obama's state Senate district."
(More at link)

From the lies in his first book to his support of partial birth abortion, Obama's character is extremely weak. Obama only cares about his politics, not about people.

The occult connection is important, not because I think in terms of an antichrist theme, but because those who are involved in the occult are power seeking individuals who want to live in a world of wishful thinking. They are people who think manipulative techniques used on people or things are fair game because of their belief in the superiority of their thinking. I said from the very beginning that the New Age religion is spirituality without morality.

That is a fair description of the techniques also used in Obama's political game plan.

The plan to get rid of the middle class has been in the works for a long time. The book Tragedy and Hope by Quigley details the machinations of what could be called the ruling class in this country. A whole chapter of the book deals with why the middle class will be eliminated. Quigley was Bill Clinton's teacher. http://tinyurl.com/5zszzb

Dorothy
 
About that meeting in Madrid...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/5871246.html or
http://tinyurl.com/6zfvq2

It's at this level there is no difference between the believers...they are all New Age spirituality followers, more politicians than anything else.

Dorothy
 
And oh yes, one of the main reasons for Chicago politicians pushing to get Obama in is that once he gets in he can stop Fitzgerald from prosecuting any more corruption in the Chicago Mayor Richard Daley monarchy in Illinois.

Dorothy
 
Paul,
I think after keeping the red heifer, a number of years ago, there were some problems with it but I'd have to look that up.....some white hairs or something. It has to be perfect to qualify.

http://www.templeinstitute.org/red_heifer/heifer_fitness.htm#nogo

http://tiny.cc/plAjB

Blessings,
Joyce
 
I found the article about the Red Heifer.

http://tinyurl.com/5ve4ko
 
Court orders YouTube to give Viacom video logs

http://tinyurl.com/6ygqls
 
To the anonymous commenter of 5:16:
You have made excellent points above. We all have different ways of trying to serve our community. Some people do many things to help others, and many people do absolutely nothing. The people who do absolutely nothing may truly be unable to do anything because they are beaten down by depression, physical disability, inertia and despair. This state of affairs is spreading like a silent killer, stealing people’s joy and hope. This is precisely why Obama is so popular. What you did not address is the fact that Obama is not the solution to any of these problems. He has no concrete answers or solutions for the downtrodden middle class, and in fact has changed his colors regularly to suit his immediate platform and audience. John McCain is not the answer, either, I’m sorry to say. We certainly do not need another president who walks in the same dark alleyways of George W. Bush. What we do need, however, is a return to faith, and true faith and hope are being mercilessly stripped away from us through the insidious labyrinth of the New Age movement, which has infiltrated every corner of almost every church, mosque and synagogue these past 40 years with an earth-based, occult-centered, humanity is God mantra . New Age is not simple Reiki and Yoga as you stated in your comment, but whether or not you don’t know that is unfathomable to me because we do not know each other. Or do we? The problem is that for some of us who have seen the ravages that the New Age movement has done to innocent lives and families, the community service that I believe you were alluding to, includes alerting others to the horrendous dangers of the movement. The woman, Joy Johnson, mentioned in Constance’s post, was a Cornell graduate. Obviously, like you, she is a very bright woman. The fact that her good intentions swayed so horribly in a direction of torture, slavery and occultism, is no accident. Unfortunately it sometimes takes a paradigm shift in our own individual comfort planes to open one’s eyes to what the New Age really is. A dear friend of mine admitted to me just last week, that she almost did not recover her sanity from the effects of the New Age. She started by just reading New Age literature- simple stuff about past Life regression experiences, she went on to more complex topics because she is very bright and curious. Soon, she was giving séances and becoming addicted to cocaine as well. She had abortions and was consumed with guilt. Her whole life became filled with a darkness that was gradual and insidious. The roots of the New Age are demonic. It is America’s refusal to accept the fact that evil exists that has made it so very susceptible. Obama’s talk of change and hope has awakened this country to the point of hoping anything is better than what we have, even if we don’t know or care what that change might be. That is very dangerous. It is in a prayerful spirit of hope in our lord Jesus Christ that the community service that some folks do, is in trying to reach the lost and the sick and the impoverished with hope in something greater than Barack Obama.
 
Paul,
Yes, that's what I recall reading. Thanks for the article.
Blessings,
Joyce
 
Grassshopper,

That was beautifully written and well thought out.

Deannie
 
Dorothy,

Very interesting -- and disturbing info -- on Chicago corruption perhaps again insinuating itself into the national political scene. I have to confess that I have not read Carroll Quigley all the way through -- it looks like I will have to do so -- I own the book which is tucked into a remote spot in my basement library.

Constance
 
To Young Grasshapper:

I just finished reading your brilliant and well said analysis which concurs with my own observations and what so many former New Agers have confided to me over the years.

Thanks!

Constance
 
A very compassionate commentary Grasshopper. You done got Soul!!!

Anonymous, I had an additional thought. The people who brought us Obama as a candidate are not the people who have been taken in by his sweet voice.

The people who brought us Obama are the people behind the scenes, the money people who were able to coasterwagon him around the country and introduce him to other big name and big pocket Democrats when he was supposed to be running for the Senate in Illinois. He didn't have to do any campaigning in Illinois. He was a shoo in against Keyes thanks to the bought Republican party in Illinois and the media that went along doing Obama's campaigning for him.

The Boston Globe ran a story at the end of June detailing Obama's connection to shady manipulators in Chicago which goes even further than the story I linked to earlier.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/27/grim_proving_ground_for_obamas_housing_policy/?page=1 or
http://tinyurl.com/44fbm4

I saw the "community organizer" scam in Chicago and followed it for a while. Put bluntly, it's a way to get money from charities and big hearts to provide "help" to poorer communities that are promised the world for their support. Once the money is gathered, no real oversight is done as to where it goes.

Dorothy
 
Oprah's probable rerun tonight is interesting. She just had a Muslim woman on -- predictable content; but then she had a pretty decent special on a home schooling Christian family. A mother "Angela," a mother of 8 -- ranging from 19 to 3 -- Angela barely looked 19 herself.

Angela gave a very clear Christian testimony. Maybe Oprah should be complimented for that particular segment and given a little positive reinforcement for what she did right -- for a change!

Constance
 
I was checking out a link to a story on Manley Hall and it led back to this website:
http://wordpress.com/tag/occult-agenda/

If you are the kind of person who can stop yourself from becoming too gullible you might find a few interesting stories here such as:

Masonic Influence in the EU — 2 comments
pjwalker911 wrote 2 months ago: Top Left: António Reis Grandmaster of Grand Orient Lusitano (Portugal), top right: Yvette Nicolas … more »

Dorothy

Tags: european union, Illuminati, Secret Societies
 
"Do you reach out to your neighbor in a meaningful way? Do you even know whether any of your neighbors are coping with illness or financial worries? Or is poverty, unemployment, illness, tragedy, downward social mobility, etc. something that happens to "other people," not to me and my family?

Do your actions actually live up to the very clear preachings of the Gospel, or do you focus on limited parts of the Gospel that you are comfortable with?"

That post doesn't really fit in here at this blog but it's interesting to see the responses (and non-responses) it has evoked.

These questions raised above make people uncomfortable which is probably why they are still going and will continue to go begging here.
 
Anonymous 3:53 am. You quoted:
"Do you reach out to your neighbor in a meaningful way? Do you even know whether any of your neighbors are coping with illness or financial worries? Or is poverty, unemployment, illness, tragedy, downward social mobility, etc. something that happens to "other people," not to me and my family?

What a self-righteous bunch of words, most of them having to do in one way or another with financial matters. "Downward social mobility"? Only someone sitting on the top of the stairs considers this a problem. No one I've been in contact with examines their "social mobility"!!! We're too busy paying gas, electric, telephone, and food bills.

Having been in contact with many of the posters here, I can say many of them are going through hardships of one kind or another. Hardships are the way we got tough. I liked what one minister said when he wrote that God knows what lessons we are ready for in our lives. Some adults are at the kindergarten level. Others are at the college level of learning the deeper lessons of life. I've dealt with all of these money problems at one time or another and am dealing with many of them right now. There are many, many kinds of problems that we live through, and only some of them are money related.

Who do you think posts here? A bunch of rich, smug, Bible believing Republicans who live in $400,000 homes? Even if one or two readers here are, do you somehow think only the financially challenged have problems in their lives? Just how narrow is your world?

Most of us who post here found our way here because of the problems in our lives. Constance learned about the New Age movement when her husband was hit by a junker and he lost his legs. I started learning what was going on in the world and stopped being a knee-jerk liberal when a battle with a very large public school district almost drove me to a nervous breakdown. It was then I started learning very slowly what Humanism really was, a disgusting, corrupt, manipulative system. For several decades I worked in a charitable organization so I saw what happened on both sides of the charity fence. Constance's husband works with disabled individuals. I was just corresponding with one poster whose husband was unemployed and whose son needed an operation.

None of our problems have stopped us from caring about others. We are here because we care about others, about their knowing the truth about the world around them before they make decisions about their lives. I think every single one of us has had to put up with smug know-it-alls who think they know all there is to know about the system which is controlling their lives. Now that is a problem which can't be solved by throwing money at it.

My problems have hardened me enough to tell you go stuff it; don't try to lay a guilt trip on the people who post here. It's obvious you don't know very much about human beings, watching them as you seem to do from some high perch while you think they should be concerned about the problem of downward social mobility. This is a Dear Amy column. It isn't necessary that we share the details of our problems with some stranger. (Shakes head sadly.)

Dorothy
 
Should have been "This isn't a Dear Amy column...

Dorothy
 
Here are the specific quotes about "Satan walking naked into human history" from "Religion of the Future" :

"The centre of the science fiction universe is always man - not usually man as he is now, but man as he will "become" in the future, in accordance with the modern mythology of evolution. Although the heroes of science fiction are usually recognisable humans, the story of "supermen" from "highly evolved" races of the future, or from distant galaxies. The idea of the existence of life on other planets has become very common, and taken for granted among scientists. One popular series of books such as those of Erich Daniken, (Chariots of the Gods?, Gods from Outer Space) finds supposed evidence of the presence of extra-terrestrial beings or gods in ancient history, who are supposedly responsible for the sudden appearance of intelligence in man [i.e. SATAN, the fall] difficult to account for by the usual evolutionary theory."

That these "alien visitors" are in fact demonic Seraphim Rose make's clear:

"Among the characteristics of the "highly evolved" creatures of the future are: communication by mental telepathy, ability to fly, materialise and dematerialise, transform the appearances of things or create illusionary scenes and creatures by "pure thought," travel faster than light, take possession of the bodies of earth-men; and expounding a "spiritual" philosophy which is "beyond all religions" and holds promise of a state where "advanced intelligence's" will no longer be dependant on matter. All these are the standard practices and claims of sorcerers and demons.

"The scripts of "Star Trek" and other science-fiction stories, with their futuristic "scientific devices", read in parts like excerpts from the lives of ancient Orthodox Saints, where the actions of sorcerers are described at a time when sorcery was still a strong part of pagan life."

"We live near the end of this fearful age [the age of "Enlightenment i.e. a Luciferian age] of demonic triumph and rejoicing, when the eerie "humanoids" or "aliens" have become visible to thousands of people and by their absurd encounters take possession of the souls of those people from whom God's grace gas departed."

I'm glad people here are discussing the highly suspicious aspects of the Obama "phenomenon." If you ask me, I think Obama is continuing what George W Bush has started, i.e. promulgating an evil and deceptive spirit.

Bush said: "Freedom is god's gift to the world", and America is therefore God's country.

Obama said: "America is our last best hope on Earth."

This extra-scriptural charlatanry smacks of chiliasm - the millennium doctrine of the antichrist.

Obama's vague undefined slogans of "hope" and "change" are not political slogans, they are psychological attitudes, psychological attitudes that leave one open to demonic infestation. And let's not forget Obama touting himself as a "healer."

There are three kinds of healers:

1. Physician
2. A Saint
3. A Sorcerer

We can confidently say Obama is not 1 or 2.

Could Obama be a demonic conduit of Antichrist America?

Other extra-scriptural charlatanism:

Dubya: "I believe that God has planted in every heart the desire to live in freedom."

and,

"The wisest use of American strength is to advance freedom."

Maybe it's because they said "God Bless you" far to much instead of "repent", so they ended up thinking they were blessed and really do have a divine mission.

"If you have no particular religious belief and give yourself over to some kind of vague idea, then the demons come in and begin to act."

An open mind is like a freshly turned sod of earth, and if not sowed with the seeds of faith and tended with humility and repentance then the weeds of heresy, gnosticism, and Satanism will take root.
 
Young Grasshopper said:
“The problem is that for some of us who have seen the ravages that the New Age movement has done to innocent lives and families, the community service that I believe you were alluding to, includes alerting others to the horrendous dangers of the movement.”
I think a good example of this is seen in the ill effects of abortion; the psychological despair and the searing of the maternal soul. However, the unreported medical consequences and the number of deaths, some say, are higher than “clothes-hanger” deaths in the sixties and early seventies are ignored. “CIDER HOUSE RULES” may seem kind but the overall effects have been a disaster, I dare say more than the N.H. floods of 2006 and 2007, more than CA. fires, and maybe more than That storm of the century. I am aware of a young girl who almost died from an abortion. But the guilt that has scarred her soul is thick. “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
So Y.G., you are right: the service you, and Dorothy, Rudi, Dawn, Mac, Doug, Paul, Joyce, Deannie, Susanna, Phil, Leana, The hidden, The prayer warrior, The forgotten, and Constance, are doing is of inestimable good. I would say better than the guy or gal who throws a few bucks in some Easter seals jar, or writes a check to the Santa fund.
God bless you and shine His face upon you.
 
Yet again this fall there will be lots of shows that have a basis in the New Age. Shows that do not have a basis in New Age continue to have story lines that promote the paradigm shift that is promoted by the New Age. These are, for the most part, probably not noticed by the general public.

The push that is going on is very similar to what happened with the homosexual movement on mainstream prime time television.

A new trend is to have "web shows" for viewers to access via the internet. These shows are not shown across the television airways (although you can still see the televized shows on the internet as well). I don't have any documentation, but I would suspect that these shows on the internet would have even more agenda type programing.

Network television still is more and more vulgar, filled with bad language, gore, and adult situations. It is the type of thing that you would only see on cable shows.
 
Besides abortion, here is another twisted practice resurfacing in Germany:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=5309791&page=1

http://tiny.cc/czgel

Under the guise of benevolence and free choice we can play God with life and death. The implications this are staggering.

As for Obama or Bush claiming to be Bible believers......I prefer that the politicians stop playing the religion card. Our system is too corrupt to permit someone who really has biblically based values to win a presidential election. It plays well to the media, but the political and economic realities dictate otherwise.

Just the fact that Bush calls Islam "a religion of peace" should tell us that he is not in a position to be honest. Islam teaches Muslims to either convert the infidel or get rid of them..It also teaches young men to blow themselves up in the cause of jihad and they will take their family members to heaven and have virgins and drink lots wine without getting a hangover. Hamas trains 5 year olds in the cause of jihad. The same spirit of anti-semitism that took over Nazi Germany exists on the Gaza strip and elsewhere. I'm not saying that a billion and a half Muslims practice this, thankfully, but this is what true Islam says to do.

How many Ramadan celebrations has he held in the White House? The religion our political leaders practice the same one that the UN practices. They praise the Dali Lama and give him congressional gold medals... We've already discussed Sun Myung Moon here...

It is naive of us to think that in a system that requires so much money to even run for office, that good biblical values will win someone an election. Our public is being dumbed down by poor education and media that puts people to sleep. When they finally wake up, if they do, it will be too late.

Fox News is part owned by the Saudi Prince, so how objective is the news we are getting on the so-called "conservative" stations. CNN we won't even talk about....These are the sources of information that most Americans rely on. The school text books are completely slanted to promote the UN's education goals.

If we don't teach our young people how to think for themselves, they will be completely lost in a system that is conditioning them to accept the religion of the anti-messiah. I don't mean to be dramatic but this is the truth. You can see it happening before your eyes. On every level the youth are being manipulated and even opened to demonic spirits without realizing it.

Many parents think their kids can participate in karate, yoga, meditation, watch science fiction, read Harry Potter, listen to demonic music and they will not be affected by these things. The deception in our Western societies is that Satan doesn't exist and yet he has infiltrated most aspects of our modern life under the guise of entertainment and leisure. You only have to read a little of Alice Bailey, and I don't really recommend it, to understand that this is "the plan". Opening up spiritual doors in the lives of our kids makes them susceptible to demonic influence. They are being bombarded on ever level and our battle is a spiritual one.

I'm sorry to get on a soapbox, and I'm probably "singing to the choir" as they say, but when I see the naivety of the public today it drives me crazy.

As for the anonymous person who was preaching good works, it's better if you go lead by example, but don't brag about it, and then your reward will be in heaven.

Shalom,
Joyce
 
To anonymous 3:53:

Points are well taken as well as ones I have stressed from the very beginning -- Self righteousness is as evil a spirit as any other one. My position which I have oft articulated may be summed up as follows:

Jesus (and the Torah) said: THE WHOLE OF THE LAW CAN BE SUMMED UP AS 'THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, ALL THEY SOUL, AND ALL THY MIND A - N - D THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.


Far too many of the "liberals" among us forget the first part of this equation: They freely deny their Lord and Maker and ascribe godlike powers to themselves.

Far too many of the "conservatives" among us forget the second half of this equation.

BOTH WERE EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO GOD.

Constance
 
To Dorothy for her her 5:06 post

EXCELLENT, WELL SAID, AND BRAVO!

Constance
 
from http://tinyurl.com/5w2xvs

>>"Fire from heaven?

>>"Do you remember when same-sex marriage was front-page news? Less than a week later, California was burning.

>>"Legal same-sex marriage licenses began to be issued after Monday, June 16. As of June 25, statistics from www.fire.ca.gov show there are 1,026 fires in California. Furthermore, on the same day, the Associated Press reported, "In less than a day, an electrical storm unleashed nearly 8,000 lightning strikes that set more than 800 wildfires across Northern California – a rare example of 'dry lightning.' "

>>"The city of Sodom was destroyed by fire from heaven for the sin of sodomy (Holy Bible, Genesis 19). The word "Sodom" means "to scorch" or "burnt" (Strong's Bible Concordance, entry No. 5467). Could there be a link between these events?

>>"- Roland Meyer, Nevada City"
 
Bravo from me as well, Grasshopper and Dorothy! I am just getting around to reading today's postings now.

I am sure that most of the readers here are tuned in to some of the "social solutions" being offered by Senator Barack Obama, but just in case anyone isn't - or has forgotten - I would like to point out that as an Illinois State Senator, Obama voted against and tried to block the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

This law has been passed to protect the lives of infants that survive botched abortions and are born alive, but are nevertheless still in danger of being murdered by neglect (a.k.a. infanticide).

Is this not redolent of the way in which pagans often used to sacrifice their infants - by exposure?

In fact, the Illinois State version of the Federal Born Alive Infant Protection Act didn't get passed in the State of Illinois until AFTER Obama left the Illinois State Senate.

Obama has been desperately trying to back pedal on his voting record with regard to this issue, but unfortunately for Obama, there is no place in the factual universe for him to hide.

Moreover, not even NARAL requires a dead baby as part of the definition of a successfully terminated pregnancy!

http://tinyurl.com/35nqw2
http://tinyurl.com/2zz6fx
http://tinyurl.com/69pm5v
http://tinyurl.com/39jsu6
http://tinyurl.com/5uh5gp
http://tinyurl.com/6rjmf9


THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: OBAMA: A HARSH IDEOLOGUE HIDDEN BY A FEEL-GOOD IMAGE

http://tinyurl.com/2sebsk

http://tinyurl.com/4f3m9d
http://tinyurl.com/5cw5cx

The Title of this July 19, 2006 World Net Daily article entitled "WHY JESUS WOULDN'T VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA" is based on a comment made by pro-life advocate Alan Keyes:
______________________

"In February 2004, U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama's wife, Michelle, sent a fund-raising letter with the "alarming news" that "right-wing politicians" had passed a law stopping doctors from stabbing half-born babies in the neck with scissors, suctioning out their brains and crushing their skulls.
Michelle called partial-birth abortion "a legitimate medical procedure," and wouldn't supporters please pay $150 to attend a luncheon for her husband, who would fight against "cynical ploy[s]" to stop it?

But that's not why Obama's opponent Alan Keyes said Jesus Christ wouldn't vote for him.

Obama recalled Keyes' statement in a recent USA Today opinion piece but omitted his reasoning.

I know his reasoning, because I was there.

As a nurse at an Illinois hospital in 1999, I discovered babies were being aborted alive and shelved to die in soiled utility rooms. I discovered infanticide.

Legislation was presented on the federal level and in various states called the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. It stated all live-born babies were guaranteed the same constitutional right to equal protection, whether or not they were wanted.

BAIPA sailed through the U.S. Senate by unanimous vote. Even Sens. Clinton, Kennedy and Kerry agreed a mother's right to "choose" stopped at her baby's delivery.

The bill also passed overwhelmingly in the House. NARAL went neutral on it. Abortion enthusiasts publicly agreed that fighting BAIPA would appear extreme. President Bush signed BAIPA into law in 2002.

But in Illinois, the state version of BAIPA repeatedly failed, thanks in large part to then-state Sen. Barack Obama. It only passed in 2005, after Obama left.

I testified in 2001 and and 2002 before a committee of which Obama was a member. (....read more....)

http://tinyurl.com/ydbkj8
__________________________

The sacrifices and activism of a brave nurse like Joyce Stanek is but one example of the many ways in which one can serve a community.

So is speaking out against the New Age Movement which is one of the many elements that needs to be factored into the kind of moral relativism that produces would-be "leaders" like Barack Obama.
 
Interesting little video about rebuilding the Temple...
Constance forgive the opening part with Pat Robertson. I know he's not one of your favorites, but he's only at the very beginning..

http://tiny.cc/XOiOR

Joyce
 
"Sarkozy also suggested that the term of the EU presidency should be extended from six months to 18 months and be occupied by three countries acting together."

http://tinyurl.com/566sky

or

http://www.euronews.net/en/article/05/07/2008/sarkozy-reassures-supporters-over-europe/
 
Having just watched the whole thing now, I was wrong, Pat speaks some more in the end, but he misses some important verses. ..Eze 46:12 talks about a Millennial Temple were animals will be offered again.

Christian thought traditionally has been that animal sacrifices are a bad thing, but they were instituted by God and as long as there is a Temple there is no problem with the sacrifices themselves. Paul offered korban for the rites of purification in the book of Acts. They no longer are for the forgiveness of sin, but there will be future offerings. Again the word sacrifice in English does not accurately represent the Hebrew word, korban, which is better translated "to draw near". Yeshua's one time for all sacrifice for our sins and the subsequent destruction of the Second Temple does not mean that animal offerings are bad in and of themselves. Remember, it will be the antimessiah who halts the offering in the middle of the 70th week. The problem would be that if we as believers in Yeshua thought that the blood of bulls and goals forgives our sin.

Joyce
 
For those who are interested -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw02sW04hHE

Video of Lift Every Voice sung to the tune of Our National Anthem.
 
Ann Coulter says:

“Two weeks ago, McCain skipped the capitol prayer breakfast in California, instead appearing with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger at an environmental event in nearby Santa Barbara. Schwarzenegger's absence marked the first time a governor skipped what has come to be known as "the governor's prayer breakfast." I guess in the world of moderate Republicans an environmental event qualifies as a religious observance.”

http://www.anncoulter.com/

She may not know the full significance of what she has said; it might take a lightning bolt to strike sense into the big Mac.
 
The problem of evil in the modern world can be traced back to Gnosticism and the religions or movements that have embraced it. In essence, Gnosticism claims that the God Christians worship in the Old Testament is a Demiurge, a petty tryrant that seeks to rule over his creation. Accordingly, the "good" god is the god that sought to "enlighten" the souls embodied by the evil Demiurge in his creation. Here, we have an inversion of the Garden of Eden: God is bad, the serpent, good. This luciferic inversion has been, in one way or another, repackaged and presented in Hermeticism, Kabbalah, Manicheanism, Zoroaster, and numerous secret societies. Yet, Christians are constantly led to the left, now to the right, now to the left again in search of someone who will restore the Good and Truth. However, the "clash of civilization" thesis is nothing more than a distraction that prevents Christians from seeing the real enemy - Gnostic systems that seek to invert God's order and law. In this regard, we cannot focus on Islam without noting what is contained in the uncensored Babylonian Talmud. There are many blasphemies contained in against Christ, the Mother of God, and Christians. While most Jews are not "Talmudic" in the full sense, there are those in Israel that are. The Bush White House has welcomed Lubavitchers multiple times, allowing them to erect a menorah in front of the White House while signing off on Noahide laws. The Kabbalistic teachings about galut and the need to recover the "divine sparks" in kelipot can be found in New Age systems that are themselves repackaged Gnosticism. In this regard, everyone interested should read the renowned expert scholar Gershom Scholem's books on Jewish Mysticism and Jewish Messianism. Reading these excellent books will also allow the discerning Christian see how Orthodox Judaism is set up to accept as their Messiah what for Christians will be nothing less than the anti-Christ. In this regard, not us not box shadows - demonizing one group while ignoring the errors of others will only serve to obscure what is actually going on. We must embrace the Truth of Christ as a standard and measure against which we expose deception - be it Muslim, Judaic, or New Age. As the Psalmist says" Put not your Trust in Princes or in the Sons of Men.
 
Susanna, thank you for your kind words. It's good to have you posting here as you keep the level of the discussion at a nice intelligent level.

Your information on Obama and his pro-partial abortion vote is on target. One would never know it from the stories that are circulating here in the Chicago area which show him as almost pro-life.

Jill Stanek's story is very inspiring. She worked at Christ Community in Oak Lawn, IL, a suburb southwest of Chicago. So many people refuse to take a stand because they don't want to offend others, don't want to lose friends, don't want to lose a job. They hope somebody else will say something and take the heat.

I heard from several people today who really liked what you wrote. Do stay here even though you may not get feedback everytime you post something of value. My excuse is that your posts are so erudite that sometimes it takes me time to wrap my brain around your ideas in order to assimilate them.

Dorothy
 
Anonymous 11:41, thank you so much for that simplistic piece of information which bears no connection to reality. Satire on conspiracy themes is something that we don't have. Do some more. We need to have a few laughs occasionally. Not to worry. Anyone who would take your satire seriously is not bright enough to do much damage.

Dorothy
 
Joyce,

Pat Robertson, in my opinion, is deeply in on the Apostasy, if not the total New Age scene:

1. He has repeatedly said that when the Bible says "every eye shall behold him, it means 'on television.' LINES UP WITH ALICE BAILEY AND BENJAMIN CREME, BUT NOT WITH SCRIPTURE.

2. He claimed that God had chosen him to usher in the coming of his son. "For I have chosen you to usher in the coming of my son." This incredible blasphemy is in the CBN counselor's handbook, at least the version sitting in my library.

3. He fought me both viciously and underhandedly in getting out word on the New Age Movement.

4. He repeatedly featured New Agers as good guys on his programs, included but not limited to:

a. Jeremy Rifkin
b. John Naisbitt
c. Al Gore specifically to promote his book EARTH IN THE BALANCE.
d. Amory Lovins
e. "Wellness Centers" promoting techniques of visualization and guided imagery,

There is MORE, Much more!

Constance

P.S. Now I will read the rest of your post, but I get a little bent out of shape that anybody gives credence to that false prophet!
 
What's wrong with reading Gershom Scholem? Or Israel Shahak, for that matter?
 
Joyce,

The presentation is interesting -- It's longer than I thought it was and I need to get to bed=chronically under rested these days. Watching it puts me even more in remembrance of Fr. Seraphim Rose's words. I googled "Gershon Salomon" OR "Gershon Solomon" (I found the name spelled/misspelled both ways) and found a "Gershon Solomon" video on rebuilding the temple citation in the Heinrich Benedikt paper.


Where Robertson is coming from ? ? ? He has talked out of so many sides of his mouth that it's hard to say. I will tell you that I met the man who "led Pat Robertson to the Lord" . . . Cornelius Vanderbreggen who was sent to me in 1987 by Liberty Lobby -- one of the world's most vicious anti-jewish organizations -- Vanderbreggen was sent to me to talk me out of my opposition to them. The next day, Harald Bredesen came to see me and lied, telling me he had never met Vanderbreggen. We learned later that night from observing sources in Liberty Lobby's hospitality suite that Harald Bredesen and Cornelius Vanderbreggen were walking around arm in arm bragging about all their old exploits together. Harald Bredesen arose in the room and told all what a big hero he was for slowing down the publication of THE HDIDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW for 6 months by forcing Huntington House to come up with $25,000 to buy out his interest in the company.

That was exactly what had happened -- I had been told about it by Bill Keith in December of 1982 -- it had indeed slowed down the book by 6 months.

Bredesen had worked for Abram Vereide, the founder of Fellowship Foundation / International Christian Leadership now headed by Doug Coe. That will be the subject of my radio program this coming Tuesday with Wayne Madsen an independent researcher on the subject whose findings coincide with much I have observed and even experienced over the past 25 years.

Constance
 
BTW, back to subject of Javier Solana and his mother, I am going to resume the series I was doing on his family before the Squeakbox disinformation campaign, but this about his mother:

1. She was a lifelong Sufi.
2. She was acquainted with Krishnamurti (the New Agers first candidate for Maitreya 'the Christ')
3. She had evidently been abandoned by part of her family.
4. She has a daughter (don't know if it is a step daughter or by a subsequent marriage) in addition to sons Javier and Luis.
5. She became a Sannyasin for Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Osho)
6. She corresponded with New Ager Fritjof Capra.
7. She worked for 20 years with the Food and Agriculture Organization in Rome, the same agency evidently now headed as the World Food Programme by Josette Sheeran, the Rev. Moon activist.
8. She had a "darshan" (meeting) with Osho two months before June 21, 1977 in which he told her she was "pregnant with God."
9. The New Agers (at least the Benjamin Creme ones) say that "since July 21, 1977, the Christ has been among us."

FASCINATINGLY, Creme is still on March and making evidently major appearances about the soon declation of "Maitreya" ("Betraya to the rest of us) 'the Christ' He will be appearing in August in Los Angeles and San Francisco. (Creme, that is). THERE IS AN ADVERTISEMENT IN THE CURRENT MOTHER JONES MAGAZINE re this -- on page 29. I was surprised to see it and bought magazine to scan and document this.

Constance
 
BTW, back to subject of Javier Solana and his mother, I am going to resume the series I was doing on his family before the Squeakbox disinformation campaign, but this about his mother:

1. She was a lifelong Sufi.
2. She was acquainted with Krishnamurti (the New Agers first candidate for Maitreya 'the Christ')
3. She had evidently been abandoned by part of her family.
4. She has a daughter (don't know if it is a step daughter or by a subsequent marriage) in addition to sons Javier and Luis.
5. She became a Sannyasin for Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Osho)
6. She corresponded with New Ager Fritjof Capra.
7. She worked for 20 years with the Food and Agriculture Organization in Rome, the same agency evidently now headed as the World Food Programme by Josette Sheeran, the Rev. Moon activist.
8. She had a "darshan" (meeting) with Osho two months before June 21, 1977 in which he told her she was "pregnant with God."
9. The New Agers (at least the Benjamin Creme ones) say that "since July 21, 1977, the Christ has been among us."

FASCINATINGLY, Creme is still on March and making evidently major appearances about the soon declation of "Maitreya" ("Betraya to the rest of us) 'the Christ' He will be appearing in August in Los Angeles and San Francisco. (Creme, that is). THERE IS AN ADVERTISEMENT IN THE CURRENT MOTHER JONES MAGAZINE re this -- on page 29. I was surprised to see it and bought magazine to scan and document this.

Constance
 
WARNING ABOUT ACCURACY IN MEDIA: THEY HAVE BEEN COMPROMISED WITH REV. MOON = UNIFICATION CHURCH TIES.

I respect Cliff Kincaid who has himself warned about Rev. Moon, but the higher ups in that organization were clearly deeply compromised -- aggressively so -- so I double, triple, and quadruple check all coming from them.

Constance
 
What Sarkozy suggested: Extending the EU presidency to 18 months and making it a 3 country team presidency is EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE PROVISION IN THE LISBON TREATY which the Irish sensibly voted down:

I still say he is Solana's lackey! At least that is my present opinion.

http://tinyurl.com/6rxnmk

Constance
 
Dawn called my attention to a blog done by someone who had left the New Age movement after many years. She had been involved in many different aspects of it.

http://sillielizziesrock.blogspot.com/2005/01/my-experience-in-new-age-movement.html or
http://tinyurl.com/7mloj

"XVIIII. MATERIAL GIRL IN A MATERIAL WORLD
Unable to deal comprehensively with the experience I'd had, the Lord placed in my path a book called "Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow", by Constance Cumbey. With her help, I finally understood what I had fallen into. I walked away from the New Age and its god and never looked back. However, make no mistake about this: from that point on I knew that there was an intense spiritual warfare going on in the world."

That was one powerful book that God led you to write Constance. This woman might be a good guest.

Dorothy
 
Thanks, Dorothy, I'll try to track her down.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING UP SO LATE?! WHAT AM I DOING UP SO LATE!

Constance
 
Constance,
Don't worry, Robertson has never been one of my favorites either.. He is a bit hard to figure out. He wrote the book "New World Order" which supposedly exposed the financial and political side of the coming world government. It was written quite a while ago. I read it at least 10 years ago and it was already old at that time. My recollection was that there was some truth in the book, but he did not include anything about the New Age. He did correctly explain fractional reserve banking. His father was on the Senate Banking Committee, so....

I thought the video was interesting in spite of Robertson...

Joyce
 
Anonymous 11:41

Right on. Freemasonry is a perfect example of Gnosticism.
Dorothy always plays the "you're just stupid" card when the truth gets too hot for her. None of the academic criticism or analysis that she is so proud of; just a personal insult and a personal insult thrown in for anyone who might agree with you.
Then she immediately runs to Constance and praises her. How transparently childish.

Paul
 
Hi, Constance,

Have you ever heard of the "Liberal Catholic Church?

In the 19th-century or earlier, certain neo-gnostics who had connections to Masonic and quaisi-Masonic groups sought valid but illicit ordinations from the "Old Catholic" movement in order to administer the Sacraments to those who had been excomminicated ipso facto from the Roman Catholic Church on account of their membership in these secret organizations.

Receiving the Sacraments while excommunicated is regarded as a grievous sacrilege by the Roman Catholic Church.

J.I. Wedgewood of the Wedgewood china family and founder of the "Liberal Catholic Church" was one of the persons who received ordination from the "Old Catholics." It was Wedgewood, moreover, who "consecrated" Charles W.Leadbeater into the "Liberal Catholic Church in 1916."

Here is the lowdown for anyone who isn't familiar with the history of the "Liberal Catholic Church.".
____________________________
LIBERAL CATHOLIC CHURCH

"The Liberal Catholic Church (LCC) is a form of Christianity open to Theosophical ideas and even reincarnation. It is not connected to the Roman Catholic Church. The title also is applied to various separate and independent denominations throughout the world holding many theosophical ideas in common.
The founding bishop of the Liberal Catholic Church was J. I. Wedgwood of the Wedgwood China family, formerly a priest in the Church of England (Anglican), who became a theosophist and was ordained as a priest in the Old Catholic movement on July 22, 1913 by Arnold Harris Mathew (whose membership in the Union of Utrecht was terminated in 1910). Archbishop Mathew was a resigned Roman Catholic priest who had been consecrated by Archbishop Gerardus Gul of Utrecht on April 28, 1908 and appointed as the first Old Catholic bishop in Britain. Thus the Liberal Catholic Church claims to trace its apostolic succession back to Rome through Old Catholicism.

The founding bishop of the Liberal Catholic Church was J. I. Wedgwood of the Wedgwood China family, formerly a priest in the Church of England (Anglican), who became a theosophist and was ordained as a priest in the Old Catholic movement on July 22, 1913 by Arnold Harris Mathew (whose membership in the Union of Utrecht was terminated in 1910). Archbishop Mathew was a resigned Roman Catholic priest who had been consecrated by Archbishop Gerardus Gul of Utrecht on April 28, 1908 and appointed as the first Old Catholic bishop in Britain. Thus the Liberal Catholic Church claims to trace its apostolic succession back to Rome through Old Catholicism. In the end Mathew came to cease all ties with the Utrecht Union of Churches to vow allegiance once more to the Roman Catholic Church (this did not happen) and to advise those of his flock who were Theosophists to resign membership of the Theosophical Society Adyar. This advice was not taken seriously by many of the church's members. Wedgwood was consecrated to the episcopate on February 13, 1916 by Bishop Frederick Samuel Willoughby (who had been consecrated by Bishop Matthew), and started the organisation that would later become the Liberal Catholic Church of which Wedgwood became the first Presiding Bishop. Bishop Wedgwood published articles within the Theosophical Society on ceremonial work. These writings interested Charles Webster Leadbeater, an alleged clairvoyant and Anglican priest who was consecrated as a Liberal Catholic bishop in 1916. C. W. Leadbeater became the 2nd Presiding Bishop."...read more...

http://tinyurl.com/5tvd2z
_______________________________

As you can see, the 2nd presiding "bishop" of the Liberal Catholic Church was C.W. Leadbeater.
_____________________________

CHARLES WEBSTER LEADBEATER

"....Annie Besant had come to see Leadbeater as a liability (probably due to accusations of pederasty) and was relieved when, in 1915 he went to live in Sydney. He was responsible for the construction of the Star Amphitheatre at Balmoral Beach in 1924. While in Australia he came in closer contact with J. I. Wedgwood who initiated him into Co-Masonry in 1915 and then in 1916, as a Bishop himself, consecrated Leadbeater into the Liberal Catholic Church.........

............He remains well known and influential in his work through clairvoyance with for instance his books The Chakras and Man, Visible and Invisible dealing with the human aura and chakras, and writing on the function of the Sacraments in the Liberal Catholic Church, to name just a few subjects. Leadbeater's clairvoyance was not without grave errors. In his book The Inner Life he writes that there is a population of human-like beings on the planet Mars." (read entire article)

http://tinyurl.com/5tvd2z

Note bene - that in the following article on "bishop" Wedgewood the British Theosopical Society is described as a "co-Masonic order.
_______________________________

J.I. WEDGEWOOD

Bishop James Ingall Wedgwood (1883 - 1951) was the first Presiding Bishop of the Liberal Catholic Church.

Wedgwood was a former Anglican clergyman, a member of the Theosophical Society, and a member of a co-Masonic order. His work on the Liberal Rite, as well as his efforts to establish a very progressive branch of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church are his greatest legacies.......
.......In 1904 Wedgwood attended a lecture on Theosophy given by Annie Besant in York. Having heard her once previously in Nottingham, he determined to end his interest in Theosophy by attending a second lecture and ridding himself of “that woman”. Three days later, he joined the Theosophical Society and was forbidden to return to the Church. Citing the local Canon, he wrote: “The Vicar could not have such a heretic as a church official!”[1] He gave up the idea of ever having a career in the Church, and decided to dedicate himself to the work of the Theosophical Society. Serving as General Secretary of the Society in England and Wales from 1911-1913, he resigned only to join the British Jurisdiction of the Co-Masonic Order.....
....In 1913, Wedgwood took notice of the Old Catholic Church in England, and wrote a letter to Archbishop Arnold Harris Mathew. Mathew’s reply caught him somewhat by surprise, and rekindled his interest in both the Church, and in entering Holy Orders again. They exchanged letters for a time, and Wedgwood explained his affiliation to the Theosophical Society, and Mathew did not express any concern over the matter at the time. That same year, Wedgwood was rebaptised and reconfirmed sub-conditione, received the Minor Orders, including Subdeacon, and was ordained a Deacon and finally a Priest on 22 July, 1913 in London. In 1915, Wedgwood visited Australia, as Grand Secretary of the Order of Universal CoMasonry, and met Charles Webster Leadbeater. He initiated Leadbeater into Freemasonry, and conversed about his ordination to the Priesthood in the Old Catholic Church. In his words: “I talked with him about my ordination and he came to various celebrations of the Eucharist by myself. He was greatly impressed by the power for good which such ordination bestowed and with the splendid scope that the celebration offered for spreading spiritual blessing abroad on the world.
When Wedgwood was returning to England from Australia, he learned that one of the Bishops of the church, Frederick Samuel Willoughby, had been dismissed by Archbishop Mathew under dubious charges leveled against him. He also learned that Mathew wanted all the clergy of the church to renounce Theosophy, as he had heard from a non-Theosophical Priest that the beliefs of the Society were incompatible. Few bothered to reply to Mathew, and shortly thereafter Mathew "dissolved" his church. Bishop Willoughby offered to consecrate Wedgwood to the Episcopate in order to guard the Apostolic Succession as he had received it, and after four months of careful consideration, was Consecrated a Bishop on 13 February 1916, with Bishops King and Gauntlett assisting. This took place only after Archbishop Mathew had dissolved the Old Catholic Church in Great Britain, and published a letter in The Times of his intention to submit to the Roman Catholic Church.

Later that year, Wedgwood traveled to Sydney Australia where he consecrated Leadbeater a Bishop on 22 July, 1916. From that time forward, Wedgwood was known as a Missionary Bishop, traveling the world to establish missions of the Church.

Wedgwood created what is known today as the Liberal Rite, in cooperation with Leadbeater, and published a number of works including New Insights into Christian Worship and The Presence of Christ in the Holy Communion."
A fanciful scandal arose whereby Bishop Wedgwood was accused of "homosexual" acts with other men. Not wishing to debate his sexuality, or bring scandal upon the Church, Wedgwood resigned as Presiding Bishop on 12 March 1923 due to ill health. While never again very active in the Church, he retired and passed away in general seclusion in Farnhamin
1951.......read entire article...

http://tinyurl.com/67p4pv
_______________________________

Among the beliefs that Benjamin Creme shares with Alice A. Bailey and C.W. Leadbeater is the idea that Jesus was "reincarnated" as Apollonius of Tyana.
___________________________

Helena Blavatsky, a founder of the Theosophical Society, wrote in 1877: "Apollonius, a contemporary of Jesus of Nazareth, was, like him, an enthusiastic founder of a new spiritual school. Perhaps less metaphysical and more practical than Jesus, less tender and perfect in his nature, he nevertheless inculcated the same quintessence of spirituality, and the same high moral truths."[11] Some Theosophists such as C.W. Leadbeater and the teachers of Neo-Theosophy, Alice A. Bailey and Benjamin Creme, have written that the Master Jesus was also incarnated as Apollonius of Tyana after his incarnation as Jesus of Nazareth. It is believed that he attained the fifth level of initiation (the resurrection) when he became an Ascended Master at the end of his life as Apollonius of Tyana. However, if Apollonius was a contemporary of Jesus as Blavatsky wrote, Jesus could not have reincarnated as him. Benjamin Creme gets around this by claiming that Jesus lived from 24 BC to 9 AD[12] (instead of the usual dates given of Jesus's lifetime as being circa 6 BC to circa 33 AD). This means that Jesus could have incarnated as Apollonius of Tyana, since according to Creme, Apollonius lived from 16 AD to circa 97 AD[13]. However, modern scholarship gives the dates of Apollonius of Tyana's life as being 40 AD to 120 AD[14], thus making it possible that, even if the usual dates of Jesus' lifetime are accepted (circa 6 BC to circa 33 AD), he still could have incarnated as Apollonius of Tyana.

Jesus' incarnation as Apollonius of Tyana is accepted by the followers of traditional Theosophy, of Alice A. Bailey, and of Benjamin Creme, but not by those who are adherent to the Ascended Master Teachings, who believe that the incarnation as Jesus was his last embodiment on Earth.".....read more....

http://tinyurl.com/5plnrt
______________________________

This is very interesting given the
claim made by Eliphas Levi that during his first adventure in necromancy in 1854 while on a trip to England he had conjured the spirit of Apollonius of Tyana at the request of a titled lady who also happened to be a friend of fellow "adept," Edward Bulwer-Lytton.

http://tinyurl.com/69ye6u

Again, I have presented Wikipedia as a starting point for further research. There is plenty of other material online about these critters if anyone is interested in running his/her own search.
 
1.) The idea that Gnosticism posits a Demiurge and opposes him against the “good” god, is explained and discussed by Gershom Scholem in his essay, “Redemption Through Sin,” where he discusses the followers of Sabbatai Zevi and his impact on Kabbalistic messianism in Judaism. This essay can be found in Scholem’s book, “The Messianic Idea in Judaism.” Gershom Scholem was a professor of Jewish mysticism at Hebrew University and is considered the world’s foremost scholar on the subject. The idea the Gnosticism has shaped and influenced Manichean or dualistic religions, as well as secret societies, can be found in James Billington’s book, “Fire in the Minds of Men,” as well as Yuri Stoyanov’s book, “The Other God.” Billington is the former Librarian of Congress. He graduated from Princeton University as Valedictorian and was a Rhodes Scholar. He has taught at Harvard and Princeton. Yuri Stonyanov is a researcher at the Warburg Institute at the University of London. This claim is also discussed in several of Francis Yates’ books, another world-renowned scholar.

2.) The idea that there are blasphemous things in the uncensored Babylonian Talmud about Christ and Christians is discussed two books: Israel Shahak’s book, “Jewish History, Jewish Relgion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years.” Mr. Shahak is a professor of Chemistry at Hebrew University; the other book is Peter Schafer’s “Jesus in the Talmud.” Dr. Schafer is Professor of Religion and the Ronald O. Perelman Professor of Judaic Studies at Princeton University.

3.) The clash of civilization thesis refers to a book, “The Clash of Civilizations,” written by Samuel Huntington, currently the Albert J. Weatherhead III University Professor at the Department of Government at Havard University. Norman Finkelstein and Edward Said have discussed how this is used to create conflict and distraction for political ends. Norman Finkelstein has taught at a number of universities while Said was a professor at Columbia University.

4.) The claim that Bush invited representatives of the Chabad Lubavitchers to the White House regarding Noahide Laws and the erection of a Menorah can be found by simply Googling the claim and checking the official web page of the White House:

www.whitehouse.gov/president/holiday/hanukkah/03.html

5.) The idea of divine sparks – a phrase one runs across in New Age writings – Galut, Kelipot, and Kabbalah is discussed and explained by Gershom Scholem in his previously mentioned book.

6.) The idea that Jews are set up to accept as the Messiah the person who Christians consider to be the anti-Christ is discussed in Gershom Gorenberg’s book, “The End of Days: Fundamentalism and the Struggle for the Temple Mount.” Mr. Groneberg is an Israeli journalist.

7.) The idea that Christians should use Christ as a standard measure against which to guard themselves against false systems and ideas can be found in the Gospel and in countless writings by the Church Fathers.
 
Robertson's book, THE NEW WORLD ORDER, was in part plagiarized from me and in part contained vicious anti-Jewish material that was obviously copied from a variety of real conspiracy theories, including the most evil of evil Eustace Mullins one who is cited as a legitimate source in that book. His people admitted that some things had been taken from me. To add insult to injury, what they plagiarized from me, they attributed to Benjamin Creme. The excuse used by his publisher was that Pat Robertson did not write this book -- it was done by a team of researchers!

Now he has teamed up with Al Sharpton to give anti-global warming ads.

What a phony!

"but what I do, that I do that such as boast may be found even as we -- for such are false apostles, transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness . . . and no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light, therefore it is no great thing if his ministers be transformed also as ministers of righteousness . . ."

Constance
 
Hi Susanna,

Indeed I have heard of the Liberal Catholic Church. It was founded by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and the Anglican apostate clergyman, Leadbetter. It is a Theosophical Society operation!

Constance
 
Susanna,

Thanks for the more detailed history -- but it was discussed by Madame Blavatsky while she was still living as I recall from my reading of the Golden Book of the Theosophical Society, their 50th Anniversary edition. I had frankly forgotten about Wedgewood -- Leadbetter played such a prominent and disturbing role with Krishnamurti who was to be the TS's "new Christ" that he was prominently on my mind. I appreciate the detail you supplied and apologize that I didn't finish reading before answering!

Constance
 
http://members.tripod.com/~SRLCC/lcchist.htm

or

http://tinyurl.com/5vhu2d

This is a history from a LCC perspective and it shows the clearly Theosophical Society links which you, Susanna, also brought out.

Constance
 
Paul,

Everybody has to one degree or another been deceived by various subtleties of the New Age Movement. The LCC was a Theosophical reach out to confused Catholics. The Jews were influenced time and again by such influences -- that's what most of the Old Testament is about. As the other Paul, the Apostle Paul, wrote: BOAST NOT AGAINST THE BRANCHES . . . For God has shown mercy to all -- we have ALL been shut up in disobedience. The Jews are clearly ultimate targets of the New Age Movement. Also it is true that Christians and Moslems and targets. The clear New Age strategy as set forth, inter alia, in Peter LeMesuriers' books, is to pit target groups against each other.

I sincerely hope you are acting from honest conviction. Much of your information is valuable, but the obvious baiting of Jewish participants on this board will do little warn -- only to exacerbate the very tensions that Peter LeMesurier boasted would guarantee the New Agers victory in their "Armageddon Script."

Constance
 
Susanna,
It's interesting to note that Alice Bailey said that Yeshua was the reincarnated Joseph, Joshua, and David. These men were all types of Messiah, pointing us to Him. He said though, that He and His Father are echad ( one) and that if we have seen Him we have seen the Father. He is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us and He was there in the beginning at the foundations of the world.

Alice Bailey will not be the first to try to undermine the deity of Yeshua, nor will she be the last. Every false religion in the world tries to make Him either a great prophet ( Islam), God's son who was created ( Jehovah Witnesses) the brother of Lucifer ( the Mormans) etc, etc. He was born of the Holy Spirit and as such was not conceived with the corrupt seed of man, but was born of God. He made pre-incarnate appearances in the Torah, but He was never born of corrupt human seed. That's what made His death, the perfect atonement for our sins. Had he had one blemish, He could not have been our kinsman redeemer.

The Theosophists and others will try to explain away why God Himself, came in the form of a man and died for us. They will try to rob unsuspecting people of the incredible redemption that we have in Yeshua, they can say He is an ascended master or anything else they want, but so what.....they are wrong. It doesn't matter what year Apollonius of Tyana was born because either you believe the Biblical account of the virgin birth, the atoning death and the resurrection or you don't. If you don't you get to stand before the judgement seat one day and give an account of yourself if your name is not written in the Lamb's book of life.

Alice Bailey, Annie Besant, Helena Blavatsky, Benjamin Creme will fail the test. Their Maitreya or Ascended Masters, Satan and all of his demons will perish in the lake of fire and they along with them..( I guess since Creme is alive he still has time to turn in repentance)

The Gospel is very simple, but it's only by faith we believe and faith is a gift of God. Many deceivers will come in the last days and they will say many false things, and for this reason we need to be prepared in and out of season for the hope in us.

We need to know the Word of God, as much as we can so we will not fall into deception. We are called to come "out of Babylon". Babylon is the confusion of our world system, be it religious, economic, political etc. Mystery Babylon will be all of those things.

The Catholic church has had its own share of confusion for centuries. One aspect of that confusion is Mary worship. We are supposed to worship God alone.

Rev. 22:9 But he *said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.”

Here is a quote off the Vatican's own website:

"This is a motive the more for the enkindling, in private and in common prayer, throughout the coming month of October, of a holy emulation in celebrating and honouring the Mother of God, the mighty succourer of the Christian people, the most glorious Queen of Heaven. For Our own part, We confirm with all Our heart the favours and indulgences We have already awarded upon this point."

Here's the link, so you can see the context:
http://tiny.cc/T3pbZ

Here is a quote about partial indulgences from the Vatican's site:

Lastly, a Partial Indulgence is granted to all the members of the faithful who, from 9 to 11 February 2007, at any time, address fervent prayers to the merciful God with a contrite heart, imploring the above-mentioned benefits for the sick, especially for incurable and terminal patients.

When Yeshua breathed His last, He said, "it is finished." He meant by that statement that His precious blood paid in full the price of our sins. There is no such thing as a partial anything. I have a copy of a plenary indulgence that was purchased at the Vatican for a family member a number of years ago, so I have proof that the practice exists. Only the precious blood of Yeshua can cleanse us from our sins, not plenary indulgences or walking through the doors of St. Peter's Cathedral ( the Year of the Jubilee). All of these practices are contrary to Biblical teaching.

Do you remember the story of Simon in the book of Acts who tried to purchase the gift of the Holy Spirit with money? Here's what Peter said to him:

Acts 8:20 But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!


Here's a great article comparing the Marian theology with Babylonian Mystery religions.

http://tiny.cc/MUIrN

There is no basis for Mary worship in the Bible as Carl Teichrib so correctly points out, not to mention the interdiction against graven images. I'm not picking on Catholicism here only because I see Protestant churches today using icons and contemplative prayer which they get from the Catholic mystics.

I'll probably catch a lot of flak for this again, as I often do when I say things that are controversial, but that's okay. I'm in good company. Paul took a lot of flak for saying that circumcision was not a requirement for salvation. i.e. Abraham was justified before he was circumcised.

Gal. 1:10 ¶ For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

May Abba bless you as you continue to study His Word,
Joyce
 
Constance,
Very interesting that he took his ideas from you and then denies the NA movement. Didn't remember that it was anti-Semitic, but I believe you if you say it was. I didn't retain all of what I read 10 years ago.

Robertson is a Christian-Zionist, which as a Jew I find a bit anti-Semitic. What I mean is, on the one hand they stand for Israel, but it always seems self-serving to me.

They want all the Jews to go back to Israel, so they can be raptured out of the Tribulation and then the time of Jacob's trouble will come. I have a slightly different take on that whole thing. As a Jewish believer in Yeshua, I believe we are called to share our faith, not just "bless Israel" so we can be blessed. Having said that, the Christian Zionists like Hagee and others do take a stand for the Land, whereas many other Christians are signing documents to divide the land in half, which is really troubling. I don't think ANYONE has the right to divide God's Land.

"I will gather all the nations And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat.Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; And they have divided up My land". Joel 3:2

Joyce
 
Susanna,
Made a mistake:

I meant to say be prepared in and out of season to give a reason to all for the hope that lies within you...

By the way, Marian apparitions are multiplying around the globe...it reminds me of Benjamin Creme's "lights".

Does anyone have any thoughts about this? I have my own theories, but I'm curious to hear what others think.
Joyce
 
constance: this ad was brought to my attention, i thought you might be interested if you haven't already seen it. http://brickhouse security.com/locator.html
 
Constance: SORRY, i SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED THE AD HAS TO DO WITH TRACKING CHILDREN
 
Hi Constance,

I was sure that you probably had heard about the Liberal Catholic Church if you knew about C.W. Leadbeater, but I didn't want to assume anything I had no right to assume about what you knew or did not know.

Leadbeater and Wedgewood had successional ties to the "Old Catholic" church which are regarded as valid but illicit by the Roman Catholic Church, and any Roman Catholic who knowingly receives the Sacraments from their successors are also in danger of incurring the penalty of excommunication.

By the way, Constance, no apology necessary. I am always in "learning mode" and do not pretend to know everything. I hope I did not offend you in asking if you had ever heard of the Liberal Catholic Chruch, and if I did, I apologize as well.

One point that I want to make is that from where I am sitting, it looks to me like the "Old Catholic" movement is one venue by which the New Age crowd and neo-gnostics of a more "traditional" occult orientation ( "left" and "right") have infiltrated the Roman Catholic Church.

This seems to have been done vis a vis Arnold Harris Matthew, who was the first Old Catholic bishop in the United Kingdom as well as the Old Catholic bishop who consecrated the theosophical "priest," Wedgewood, founder of the Liberal Catholic Church.... and Rene Joseph Vilatte, whose proteges ordained and then consecrated Jean Bricaud.

Jean Bricaud subsequently became "bishop" of the "Gnostic Catholic Church." The subdivisions of this "Gnostic Catholic Church" which Bricaud consolidated under his one gnostic "umbrella" entity are what Msgr. Leon Cristiani - without mincing words - described as "modern forms of satanism" in his book EVIDENCE OF SATAN IN THE MODERN WORLD.

http://tinyurl.com/6qqpxf
http://tinyurl.com/6arnww
http://tinyurl.com/6ewyev

Here is a more detailed description of the Bricaud successional ties.
______________________________

"Papus also became a bishop for the second time, probably about 1913, this time at the hands of bishop Jean Bricaud (1881-1934), known under the ecclesiastical name of Tau Jean II. Bishop Bricaud was consecrated to the episcopate on July 21, 1913 by bishop Louis-Marie-François Giraud, who was ordained and consecrated with complete regularity (from the Catholic point of view) by a bishop of the Vilatte succession. (In fact Giraud was ordained priest by the noted archbishop Vilatte himself in 1907, and elevated to the episcopate in 1911 by the Gnostic bishop Jules Hussaye, who in turn received his episcopate from bishop Paolo Miraglia-Galotti who was consecreated bishop by archbishop Vilatte). All of this needs to be mentioned in order to indicate that Papus was a validly consecrated catholic bishop of Gnostic belief since 1913, and that he was also a Gnostic bishop of Gnostic belief since 1913, and that he was also a Gnostic bishop of far more dubious validity in the catholic sense since sometime prior to that date.

The claim of various followers of Crowley is that Theodor Reuss, the head of the O.T.O., received the initiatic succession of the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica from Papus in 1909, along with all the other successions of the Martinist order which Papus possessed. It is also asserted by some that Reuss in turn passed on these Martinist successions, including the Gnostic Catholic episcopate to Aleister Crowley in 1912, and thus that Crowley was indeed a duly consecrated bishop. It is further assumed (although not frequently stated explicitly) that Crowley passed on this ecclesiastical succession to others within his branch of the O.T.O. and that thus today there are valid bishops within the revival movements of the O.T.O. and within its ancillary activity known as the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica."

http://tinyurl.com/6jk7zs
 
RESPONSE TO COMMENT ON GNOSTICISM AND THE KABBALAH

Anonymous 10:13,
I'm Jewish and probably only one of the few who read here who could respond to your comments. However, I don't do religion vs religion posts, particularly in answer to posts based on reasoning similar to
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 18.

SUGGESTION FOR THREAD IMPROVEMENT
There are many threads these days with over a hundred comments.

The New Age movement has a long the history. It has many branches. It has opponents. There are many ways of responding to it. There is the EU connection. It has ties to politics in the US.

I would like to suggest that a system of subject lines be developed. Whether or not one is, I will use one so that those who aren't interested in a particular topic can skip the post.

Dorothy
 
Brookings Institute Paper: Sunday July 6, 2008

“Nicolas Sarkozy at the Helm: What to Expect from the French Presidency of the European Union, July-December 2008”

This is “Part One” of a two part paper by Robert Schuman, ( Robert Schuman Foundation: The French Think Tank on Europe published in early June 2008).

The core of this paper, unexpectedly for me, offers insight into the way Ireland’s referendum and NO vote of the Lisbon treaty on June 12, 2008, has “thrown a cog” (albeit temporary) into the well greased political works of International politics. In particular, the area surrounding the 2009 long planned inauguration of “whomever” as “President of the European Council” as well as the expanded position of the “High Representative” now held by Javier Solana. I've high-lighted some pertinent quote's from the paper, however, it would be beneficial to read it in it's entirety.
****************************
“The main worry is Ireland, who will hold a referendum on June 12. Another worry is the UK, even though the Treaty cleared the House of Commons on March 11 and is expected to clear the House of Lords on June 11. A constitutional challenge in Germany could result in delaying its adoption, and there may be unforeseen bumps along the road.”
****************************
“France will be the last big country to hold the rotating presidency of the EU with its full array of responsibilities before the rules change. Starting in 2009, a new office will be inaugurated, that of “President of the European Council,” a personality elected by the 27-member Council for two and a half years (renewable once) who will be in charge of the Council’s work and of being the “face of the EU” in the international arena.”
******************************
The author, Robert Schuman, views the issue of ratification of the Lisbon treaty impacting the French presidency in two important ways. One of these issues is because the election of the President of the Council and the new High Representative will happen in 2009.
***************************

"Who will replace Javier Solana as High Representative? And who will be elected “President of Europe,” thus finally answering Henry Kissinger’s famous question about Europe’s phone number?”
**************************

Priority Number 1 (according to the author) Is European Defense

European Defense = ESDP = European Security and Defence Policy = High Representative of the Common Foreign and Security Policy = Javier Solana.
****************************
“As this example shows, ESDP is not about the traditional, territorial defense of Europe (that is still the ultimate responsibility of individual states and of NATO), Rather, ESDP is about giving the EU the ability to contribute to global stability and ensure its own security, by intervening anywhere in the world, including in non-permissive security environments or without the help of NATO if America cannot or does not wish to be involved.”
********************************
“No one is better placed than Washington to vouch for ESDP, and this is precisely what Sarkozy got in exchange for his moves –…”
******************************
“Nicolas Sarkozy has mentioned the strengthening of European defense as one of the main priorities of the French presidency of the EU.”
*******************************
I anticipate reading “Part 2” which should include an update - in light of the "now history" unexpected NO vote of the Lisbon Treaty by Ireland. -Rudi
********************************

http://tinyurl.com/5mr9zh

http://www.brookings.
edu/papers/2008/06_sarkozy_vaisse.aspx

***************************
From today’s The Sunday Times (Times Online UK):

"Nicolas Sarkozy turns screw on Irish over EU treaty"

http://tinyurl.com/6ar8vg

http://www.timesonline.co.uk
/tol/news/world/europe/article4276247.ece

*****************************

Home page for The Robert Schuman Foundation :

http://www.robert-schuman.org/
 
Joyce,

As a Roman Catholic, I could respond to your claim that Roman Catholics "worship" Mary.

But apart from saying that anyone who is TRULY well-informed about the Roman Catholic faith KNOWS that we do NOT worship Mary, I am going to follow Dorothy's good example and not do "denomination" vs. "denomination" posts.

I am really amazed that anyone is still peddling that old saw......so redolent of other infamous myths such as the PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION
 
To Dorothy:

Thanks so much for the link to Lizzie's blog:
http://tinyurl.com/7mloj

I intend to send that to anyone I know who has ever (even innocently) dabbled in the New Age!

As far as threads go, I for one can say that there is a great deal on this site that is way, way over my simple head. I scan through comments quickly and leave just as quickly if I can't for the life of me figure out what's being talked about. I do however, feel that with the help of the Holy Spirit I am guided to the things that he needs for me to read and then gives me the wisdom to understand.

To Joyce,
Just wanted to refer back to the statue in Daniel from yesterday's discussion, which you so kindly pointed me to in my inquiries about the AC in the end times. In reading the definition of "clay" in Webster's New Riverside dictionary, the 4th definition for clay is: The human body as opposed to the spirit.
I thought that was interesting as it might pertain to the discussion. So if iron and clay are mixed together it certainly seems to describe the emerging one world government with the EU leading politically and the New Age (earth /Gaia worship) leading as its world religion. The humanists and New Agers have certainly taken good people's focus away from the spirit and pointed them towards the flesh and their own selfish humanity.
Just thought the definition interesting and decided to mention it.

Re: Pat Robertson- I also dislike Pat Robertson for what he's done to the appearance of Christ-based faith. My pastor sort of spoke about that in church today. The devil will not waste a lot of time bringing down a person who represents the average secular person. But he will fight to the ends of the earth to destroy the Christian person and especially one who is well known. It goes without saying that if he (satan) can discredit the Pat Robertson's of the world, he can then make Christianity look bad and Christians look foolish. I'd really like to think that in his early ministry Pat was indeed filled with the Spirit, since he did seem to bring many to the Lord, imho.

I'm not sure what a Christian-Zionist is, but if it means wanting to be on the winning team, then I confess that's me, too!

Hope everyone is having a good weekend and peace to everyone here.

Maryanne
 
To all,

Just for the record:

On the link Joyce posted it reads:

"Presently, Roman Catholicism holds Mary to be eternally virgin, just as Isis was. Catholicism also contends that Mary was without sin, making her into a type of "god." In fact, there are some who claim that Mary is the "fourth person" within the Trinity."
________________________________

This was a heresy implicitly held by the so-called "Army of Mary" whose members were excommunicated in 2007 by the Vatican after repeated warnings were issued by the Canadian Bishops......

http://tinyurl.com/5kr3ml
http://tinyurl.com/6mvv53
http://tinyurl.com/5mfcyb
http://tinyurl.com/5z54x2
 
Thanks to all the excellent posts in this thread, but a heads up should go to Mac who posted the WND link in the last thread just as the story broke on Joy Johnson et al. I was able to catch his link and alerted a large number of Christian activists here in WA state to the full implications. Thanks Mac. Questions abound. Indigo is a no brainer but "Dawn?" Are we looking at a Golden Dawn/OTO group here doing sex magik? Johnson et al shocked even jaded me because I could not imagine a more surreal example of all that embodies the New Age evil than this group: high Democratic Party Progressive political action, global involvement in phoney peace activism, the UN, the Middle East, implimenting the phoney hate crime public policies via the Human Rights Commission, sex magick, channeling, probable possession, Indigo kids, evolution of consciousness, violence, elitism, Satanism and the seeming "niceness" of it all. This pair should be the poster kids for New Age Deception. Will the Durham County Prosecutor figure it out or will they blow it like the Duke case. I think someone in the media will eventually get it because this is made for expose. But will they see how far off the deep leftist radical New Age end that the Democratic Party is headed. You can find Joy Johnson types in WA state. Just go to Olympia. Any way, let this serve to remind us here that no post is insignificant just because it doesn't get a yahoo. People are reading and acting. Keep up the good work here.
 
Joyce,

IMO the apparitions are a joke, like seeing a face in a tortilla! I use to be RC, went to catholic school all my life- or I'm called a lifer to HS friends.

Other apparitions could be part of the hoax that will soon come upon us. Project bluebeam etc. NBC Universal just bought The Weather Channel. HAARP doing more things lately, weather is wacky. I'm sure everyone here is aware that the anti-christ will have to perform miracles. How do we (here) think he'll be able to do this? It will have to be deceptively real ie. change weather, cause earthquakes. Along with a fake ufo/alien attack (I hope I'm a wacko for thinking this).

Susanna,
My aunt and uncle still go to the church where I use to go, and one of my favorite priests left do to some big scandal that he was a marionnett (sp). I didn't know what that was until my aunt explained it to me. She said a lot of people left when he went because (my aunt said) they worshiped mary and other saints. Do I believe her? I don't know, I know my aunt and uncle are christians- they walk the talk so to speak.

JB in CO
 
Philip,

The NWO and Atlantis is very heavily linked to Illuminate' branch of Freemasonry. Any of you interested there is soooo much on this and has been successfully concealed.
Here are some good links
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
By Charles Finney and Freemasonry
http://www.scarletandthebeast.com
/william%20morgan.htm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The New Atlantis

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7065337908393908335&q=Cumbey&hl=en
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Riddles in Stone (about Americas Foundation)

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Riddles+in+Stone&hl=en&sitesearch=#
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

For Such A Time As This
 
"The Marian Apparitions: Divine Intervention or Delusion?"
by Miriam Lambouras
TinyURL:
http://tinyurl.com/5tcx6e
Full URL (two lines):
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/
inquirers/marian_apparitions.aspx
 
Thanks Mac.
 
njcr807,

"According to the doctrine of the Catholic Church, the era of public revelation ended with the death of the last living Apostle. A Marian apparition, if deemed genuine by Church authority, is treated as private revelation that may emphasize some facet of the received public revelation for a specific purpose, but it can never add anything new to the deposit of faith. The Church will confirm an apparition as worthy of belief, but belief is never required by divine faith. The Holy See has officially confirmed the apparitions at Guadalupe, Saint-Étienne-le-Laus, Paris (Rue du Bac, Miraculous Medal), La Salette, Lourdes, Fátima, Portugal, Pontmain, Beauraing, Banneux, La Vang Vietnam and Knock (Ireland).

http://tinyurl.com/6crtss
 
Dear Susanna:

Yes, I had read that Pope John Paul II had expressly rejected the petition drive to make a new dogma that Mary was the 4th member of the Trinity, making it a divine quartet. I did not know about Pope Benedict XVI's later actions. Thanks for the information!

Sincerely,

CONSTANCE
 
Just saw this article on Yahoo.http://tinyurl.com/6qlqsn

The article is about flikr deleting an image of a child in Romania who was smoking.

Wasn't there a bill in regard to homegrown terrorism a few months back? That is what I was thinking about when I read this.
 
INDIGO DAWN
Anonymous
Since I used the word jaded as the reason I didn't follow up, I just want to say the group looked like a bunch of wackos with a New Age name with no connection to anything else. It was only after I went to their website did I see the other political connections and the larger pattern.
Satanists into S&M aren't typical of New Agers or Democrats. If it was so, it would be much easier to get others to fight the NA movement. Yes I know about Crowley and the homosexual movement and the actions of Nazis, but I don't see it here yet on a scale larger than some involved individuals. If we try to use these individuals as typical of New Agers, we who fight the movement risk looking foolish.

Dorothy
 
Susanna,
Pope Paul wanted to make Mary co-redeemer with Yeshua, and a good number within the leadership of the RCC were in agreement. That was within the last 10 years.

http://www.gnfc.org/coredeem.html

There are good references in this article:

http://tiny.cc/Rl6hu

Maybe you don't worship Mary, so then this doesn't apply to you, but I happen to have had a lot of family members who were Catholic and did, so it's first hand experience that I speak from. The Marian apparition thing is big as well. I've had two people just within this last year personally tell me that they saw these apparitions.

I also had family members who prayed to saint so and so for this cause and that cause, so I'm not making these things up. They were people I really loved ( some of them are dead now). On the contrary, some of them in later years turned from all of that and really focused on Yeshua, which I view as God's mercy, since their upbringing was so strong. I personally have a copy of an indulgence and I don't have it with me at the moment or I would tell you the exact wording on it.

At a family funeral once, the Priest said that so and so was saved BECAUSE she "took the sacraments", but then he said he wasn't sure so just in case we better pray to get her out of purgatory. Again, I am a first had witness. I went to Catholic school where they took us to confession and made us say "Hail Marys" to get rid of our sins..I know lots of other people who were raised Catholic with the same experience.

If you have not heard of these things or experienced them that's quite amazing and quite unusual.

Joyce
 
Joyce,

I had a feeling that you might be an ex-Catholic.

What I find quite amazing and quite unusual is that someone who professes to have once been a Roman Catholic could be so abysmally ignorant about what the Roman Catholic Church actually teaches.

And I do not mean this in a pejorative sense either - but it is nevertheless instructive.

Enough said.
 
Susanna,

I shared some first hand experiences, that are not only my experiences but the experiences of many others that I have met over the years. If those are not your experiences great, but trying to write me off as "ignorant" might make you feel better, but doesn't in any way nullify my experience or that of countless others.

For those who were molested by priests practicing "celibacy" I bet they wouldn't think I'm just ignorant. What would we do with Paul's admonition to Timothy:

¶ And the Spirit expressly speaketh, that in latter times shall certain fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,
in hypocrisy speaking lies, being seared in their own conscience, forbidding to marry — to abstain from meats that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those believing and acknowledging the truth, 1Ti 4:1-3

A little more on that subject from Paul:

Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that. But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 1Cor7:7-9

Clearly mandating celibacy has hurt the poor kids who are victims of some of these priests who couldn't control their passions. I know they are not the only ones that are guilty of this, but there seems to be a preponderance of it in the Catholic Church.

Marriage between a man and woman is a good thing:

Gen. 2:18 ¶ Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.

The Catholic priesthood borrows a lot from the Levitical priesthood, and yet the Levitical Priests married. Paul held a high view of marriage:

Eph. 5:25 The husbands! love your own wives, as also the Christ did love the assembly, and did give himself for it,

In Paul's day he was fighting gnosticism and asceticism, many of the same heresies that we have today.

This is kind of interesting, whether I agree with every bit of it or not there are some striking parallels:

http://tiny.cc/upFyB

There are many sincere Catholics who love Jesus/Yeshua, but that doesn't make the churches practices kosher. You have made a distinction between "liberal Catholics" and "orthodox Catholics". I simply made a distinction between "Catholicism" and Biblical truth. Honest Catholics will admit that the traditions of the Church are given more weight than the Bible.

‘For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll, and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;’ rev 22:18-19

Joyce
 
Susanna and Constance,
Pope Paul II did want to make Mary co-redeemer. I did not hear the exact expression "4th member of trinity" with regards to him in particular. The expression trinity is not one of my favorites, and the article will explain why:

http://tiny.cc/T7cX0

More documentation on the Mary business.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/coredeem.htm

Here's another good article by Discernment Ministries:

http://tiny.cc/VhzYu

I wrote quite a bit myself a few blogs ago, but I'll spare everyone rehashing the same things. The writer is a born-again Christian. I am a Jew who found their Messiah, and from my perspective the teachings I received as a Catholic obscured who Yeshua was to the point where He was unrecognizable to a Jew, but even for a gentile the "baby Jesus, or still crucified Jesus of the Catholic church with their statues and rosary beads and novenas has nothing to do with the Yeshua I discovered in the Bible. I am unable to reconcile the two.

I am not only speaking for myself, but numerous others that I have spoken to over the years. It's just a different point of view. The only reason I brought it up is because you started talking about the difference within the Catholic Church and so if we are going to criticize the liberal Catholics, we need to look at the "mainstream" ones too. How can we criticize the New Agers when we're not willing to examine the notion of a "Mother of Heaven"?

Joyce
 
Interesting article from Worldnet Daily..new subject.:

http://tiny.cc/bJia1

Joyce
 
Hi Constance,

For what it's worth, here is the latest on the Lisbon Treaty.


July 1, 2008

Q&A: The Lisbon Treaty
A big question mark hangs over the future of the Lisbon Treaty - the set of institutional reforms aimed at streamlining the work of the enlarged European Union.

http://tinyurl.com/2axq3u


Written interview with Javier Solana
by Alexandre Mineev for Interfax and ovaya Gazeta
for the EU-Russia Summit

http://tinyurl.com/67wlez

http://tinyurl.com/5w462h

http://tinyurl.com/63rwn7

Here is an interesting one:

EU leaders argue over whom to blame for Irish treaty vote
June 20, 2008

http://tinyurl.com/6ojhp7


Ukraine pushes Polish and Czechs to ratify EU treaty (July 4, 2008)

http://tinyurl.com/6848pf
 
Since I rely on the library to get online these days, I don't get to keep up with everything like I once did. Several comments ago, maybe a hundred (!!!) Dorothy was talking about the motivation for some of these NAers, and how they manipulate people if they can. I think it was Elmer Gantry who said (in the movie), if God didn't want him to fleece the people then why did he make them sheep? I am not sure if that is the thinking on the NA leaders' part, but I figure it is some of it.
I also am printing up some of the comments from the last article about what led to the occult explosion in the West since the French Revolution. I wanted to know before when the interfaith movement picked up speed, and I think this ties in with it. (I didn't get to read all the comments on it yet)
 
Joyce

This is in response to one of the sources you cited on the issue of co-Redemptrix - which, by the way, is NOT a formally defined dogma of the Catholic faith regardless of what Pope John Paul II may or may not have CONSIDERED doing.

Answer to Anti-Catholic James G. McCarthy on Co-Redemptrix

http://tinyurl.com/6xb854
 
Susanna,
I agree that it was not made a formal dogma, but many high leaders in the Church were in favor of doing it. It probably didn't happen because it would have caused a split. Nonetheless, Catholicism has elevated Mary instead of putting her in her biblical context. She was a special woman chosen by God for a very special thing. She had other children after Yeshua. She was not perfect. She did sin, because "all sin and fall short of the glory of God" except God Himself. She definitely suffered as any mother would to watch their son go through what Yeshua went through, so I'm not denying any of that. Between that and lifting her up as an intercessor, as "the Blessed Virigin, the Mother of Heaven", praying the rosary to her, etc. there is a big difference. I don't believe we are called to worship anyone but God Himself.

The statues all over Europe are always with Mary, and a little tiny, helpless baby Jesus. Using graven images is forbidden in Scripture to begin with, but that's another subject. Catholicism, throughout history, absorbed the pagan ideas in the countries where it went. i.e. Mardi Gras, Lent, etc. Christmas, Easter, etc. were all inventions of the Catholic Church and all have pagan elements in them. The Protestants protested, partially.

One of the biggest problems the corrupt Jewish religious leaders in Yeshua's day had was looking beyond their own traditions and authority. Had they gone back to the Torah, Writings and Prophets, they may have recognized Him as God. When we get so caught up in our traditions we elevate our man-made traditions over the teachings of God and this is very dangerous. Protestants and Messianics can do this too, so we should all be willing to look at our congregations and doctrines and examine them. Several times in my life now I have had to examine things that I just accepted as truth and see if they really line up with the Scriptures and I discovered that I was just going along with the status quo, but it didn't agree with the Scriptures.

We are 2000 years away from Yeshua's time on earth and about 3500 years away from the time when Moses received the Torah at Mt. Sinai. If I am bringing these things up here, it's not to give you a hard time, but because I personally believe the Catholic Church as well as many apostate Protestant Churches will play a role in ushering in apostasy. The Jews and the Muslims will play their part too, not to mention the Hindus, Buddhists, etc. They have already begun. We are willing to look at the New Age Movement, but writing on a blog is not very threatening. What will we do if the day comes where we have to chose between our comfortable traditions and institutions and following the Living God? I believe the day will come, and it might come in our time, or maybe our children's.

If we are not willing to examine this we too might be deceived. I don't know what the antimessiah will do, but the Bible says that he will have power to perform miraculous things, to the point where even the elect could be deceived...if it was possible. Will it be apparitions of Mary, aliens, bright lights as Benjamin Creme thinks.....I don't know, but we have to be looking so carefully at God's Word from Genesis to Revelations in our day and making sure that we and the people we affiliate with line up with the Scriptures. If something that our organization, denomination or assembly does agree, what do we do about it?

Anyway, you say that you read the Bible, so you are already way ahead of most Catholics. Today, more Catholics are reading the Bible and as long as they read it and allow God's Spirit to guide them in all truth, they will discover for themselves what He says. In past generations, unless you knew Latin, you didn't have that luxury, so today's Catholics are without excuse. They can know the Word of God for themselves.

Blessings,
Joyce
 
Just to kibutz on what Joyce says directly above, read the Bible for yourself. AMEN
I believe that the 25th chapter of Matthew follows the 24th chapter for a reason. The 24th chapter describes the end times and so many things which lead up to the second coming of the Lord. The 25th chapter describes it in a symbolic way and tells us what to do about it. The wise virgins are the ones who have their lamps and their jars full of oil. The foolish ones only have some oil in their lamps. I think most Bible scholars are in agreement that the oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit comes and fills a person who worships God in spirit and in truth. The Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of Truth, by Jesus himself. Jesus is also called the Word of God. The Bible is also called the Word of God. Reading the Bible is an act of faith in itself. We don't always see clearly what is right in front of us but the reading of the Word of God is an act of worship and, when done in humility, leads to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
I believe that when the foolish virgins say "give us some of your oil" they will be saying "tell us what the Bible says" , and when the wise virgins say no,
it's because no one can read it for you.
Read it for yourself and pray that the Holy Spirit guides you in understanding. I don't believe for one second that it's beyond the reach of the average person. That's exactly what the devil wants you to think.
In fact it's a book for the common person:
"Blessed are the poor in spirit"
"Blessed are the meek"
"Blessed are you who hunger and thirst for righteousness" etc.

It's not a race. You don't need to read the whole thing in one day, nor could you.
And there are many many good books to help you along the way, but ultimatly you have to read it for yourself.
A "priest" might tell you otherwise. A denomination might suggest that you let it tell you what it means.
Don't believe that.
To paraphrase Jesus: Behold I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door ( the Bible ), I will come in and sup with him.

Besides all that, if you're studying the New Age as it's called, and not studying the Bible, you're going to be in some deep trouble, guaranteed.

"Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not the things that I say?"

"Why do you follow the traditions of men, and not the commandments of God?"

It always seems odd when I hear people say;; "I just want to know what God is trying to tell me. Or, I wish God would just tell me what to do, etc, when
He gave us his word on every subject in written form and it's very clear and concise !


Yours truly,
Paul
 
just
published on the German material of Heinrich Elijah Benedikt on my blog,
even not completed yet, but you will get the idea...thanks!

http://freiberg.blogspot.com/

farmer
 
PERSONAL NOTE:

I will be going out of town with limited internet access. I will try to check my emails once and probably the main page, but won't have time to check the comments. I will also miss Tuesday's and Friday's show.
 
There is a decent book out there called "Mary, Mary Quite Contrary" - I think the authors name was Tim Kaufman - did an interview with him on the radio, ex catholic, decent book.
Here - here Paul -
There are many just plain old fashioned lazy individuals out there who claim whatever denominational tag they prefer, for the moment, and do not take the time to do as instructed and simply be obedient like a child of the Lord God should be - in whatever capacity that maybe, but this one is certain regarding the Word:

2 Timothy 2:14-16
14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

If the Word can be rightly divided - yep, you guessed it - it can also be wrongy divided. How to stop that mistake 100%? (I am hoping to figure that one out also) study - get a Strongs concordence, do some homework on the only offensive and defensive measure you have been given to yield in the fight with - the Word of God.
I coud fill pages up here quoting as to what the Lord has said His Word is.
Better yet - read it for yourself - as you are instructed to do and ensure you spend more time reading His Word to maintain perspective during research and investigation. Yeah, that coud take up more time than you planned, but there is 1 fact that studying the Word of God yields more than anything else, truth for eternity that does not change.

DouginMI
 
Doug,

Very well said brother...Amen and Amen.

HK
 
Bjorn, very amazing! Everyone should look!!!
Joyce
 
Totally OT but two news stories from the UK reported through the Telegraph.

http://tinyurl.com/6m2pkn

http://tinyurl.com/5rlhcg

Oh to have the freedom of speech that you US folks have.

~K~
 
Young Grasshopper has thrown in the towel at the-obama-nation. Sorry about that.

If Obama gets in it will be because the people in the deserve it. Too many people just stand by hoping others will do the work for them. Then we have the "end of the world" group. Interesting to note that Bjorn posted an interview with someone who belonged for 12 years to the group he writes about. Guess what. According to the original plan, the end should have been now.

Twelve years of sitting around doing nothing while the EU finished implementing its plans. Couldn't have paid the group members to do a better job of staying out of the way.

Dorothy
 
I just dropped in to read all of the latest posts and noticed there is another very intelligent Catholic named "Susanna" who is holding her own against the venomously anti-Catholic "Joyce."

Hey, Joyce:
Regarding Mary, I challenge you to PROVE your statement that "she had other children after Yeshua."

All I can say is "Hang in there, Susanna" and BRAVO for continuing to try to educate and inform those who CHOOSE to remain uninformed about the teachings of the Catholic Church.
 
Constance:

Regarding an earlier post on Pat Robertson. Wasn't it Pat Robertson who believes that when Jesus returns and "all eyes shall see Him" . . . that Robertson believes that Jesus will be seen more "on" the air rather than "in" the air (through instant, live world-wide television viewing)?

And didn't you once sarcastically argue the point that if that were true, that would mean that "owning a televison set would be a requirement for viewing the seocnd coming" . . . and what about the poor people of Calcutta, etc. who don't own or have access to television sets?

Either way, I have never understood the appeal of Pat Robertson or his not-so-subtle New Age teachings.
 
To Anonymous 6:40 A.M.

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement.

As I have said before, I am here to learn and to share information, and not to "convert" anyone or trash anyone else's religion.

Ordinarily, I would not have even responded to Joyce's trashing of Catholic beliefs in the Blessed Virgin Mary and other specifically Catholic beliefs because I am secure enough in my Catholic beliefs that I don't have to go around trashing the beliefs of others in order to convince myself that my faith is the "real deal."

The only reason I did respond to Joyce is because she said that she was an ex-Catholic. As such, she should have KNOWN what the Catholic church really teaches. If she didn't - whether through her own sloth or through no fault of her own, there are plenty of ways she could have learned the truth if she wanted to know it - even if, at the end of the day, she decided she didn't agree with it and chose to reject it.

As for Scripture, perhaps the next time she is trolling for Biblical passages that she can weaselword and serve up as "proof texts" for her bigotry, she should have a look at Exodus 20:16 which reads: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."

A Franciscan priest I once knew told me many years ago that no one trashed the Catholic Church more than ex-Catholics.

He pointed out that when Protestants move from one denomination to another you don't often see them trashing the Christian communion they decided to leave. In fact, they usually express gratitude for the true things they did come away with.

He implied that the trashing of the Catholic faith by ex-Catholics is often the hallmark of a guilty conscience since many of them don't initially leave the Church on account of disagreements about dogma - but rather over disagreements about Catholic teachings on morality - especially sexual morality.

As for the sex scandals in the Catholic Church involving clergy, a couple of members of a predatory sect claiming to be "Christian" had the nerve to ask me not long ago how I could even THINK of remaining Catholic in the wake of the sex scandals involving Catholic priests.

Charity precludes my naming names here. But if the shoe fits....

After informing them that my faith doesn't depend upon the personal sanctity of those who are charged with the mission of preaching and teaching it (but rather on Christ who revealed it), I pointed out that since the scandals in their own back yard had obviously failed to persuade them to abandon their religion, then they, of all people should understand why the scandals in the Catholic Church had failed to persuade me to abandon mine.

I had to laugh over the way in which these "accusers of the brethren"(Rev. 12:10)spoke as if the Catholic Church had somehow cornered the market on scandals.

I was tempted to remind them of my late mother's oft repeated aphorism:

"Be careful about spitting in the air lest it land on your own nose."

In closing, I will say that in spite of her bigotry, I bear Joyce no ill will and I wish her every blessing.
 
Young Grasshopper,

I hope and pray that you reconsider throwing in the towel.

I was impressed by what you have to say and will pray that the Holy Spirit gives you the strength to continue.

Susanna
 
Dear anonymous,
There was nothing at all against Susanna in my attack. On the contrary, I think it's great that she reads her Bible. I simply talked about Mary worship which is idolatry. I don't know that Susanna worships Mary and even if she did I wouldn't attack her for it. I would point out the Biblical truth, that we are to worship God alone. I also said that some Protestants are using icons, but I didn't hear you defend the Protestants, so if you are going to characterize me, please make sure you are fair.

Here is the Scripture that talks about Yeshua's family:

Luke 8:19 ¶ And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd.
Luke 8:20 And it was reported to Him, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You.”
Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”

It's very interesting that you should ask me about this one, because if you notice Yeshua is talking about "hearing and doing". In hebraic thougt, "hear" or "shema" means to hear and obey, not simply that God says something and we can ignore it. We can only obey His commands if we know His Word. By the way, it's commonly accepted among scholars that Yacov (James) is Yeshua's brother and headed the Jerusalem assembly and wrote the "Book of James". We know this from the Book of Acts when he renders the decision at the famous "Jerusalem Council".Acts 15:2-21 Judas, one of the shorter books in the Bible is also thought to be authored by Yeshua's brother.

Here's another verse that confirms that:

Mark 6:3 “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?” And they took offense at Him.

So you can see that Mary/Miriam had other children after Yeshua.

If you read Scripture, you would see that while Miriam was a virgin before giving birth to Yeshua, her other children were born through normal means, making the birth of Yeshua very special. One of the things that I love about the Bible is that God takes ordinary people and uses them for extraordinary purposes.

Yeshua even gave a rebuke to His mother when she asked Him to perform a miracle before His time:

John 2:4 And Jesus *said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.”

He was in Jerusalem for the Passover and probably having his bar mitzvah at that time ( first public Scripture reading) and His parents were concerned when they were traveling and He was missing. His mother was an normal mother, concerned about her son. Look at His response to His parents:

Luke 2:49 And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?”

All of the people that God called out to do amazing things, were quite humble like Moses, who said he couldn't speak, David, the smallest and youngest of his brothers, a young shepherd, His disciples, who fished for a living. God choses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise. Miriam was a simple young Jewish woman, who was trying to walk in obedience to Torah, and finds herself pregnant out of wedlock, without having sinned. When we exalt her as if she were a goddess, herself, we take her out of the original context of Scripture. She was a woman who was blessed to have the role of carrying Yeshua. She wasn't an Immaculate virgin because she had relations with her husband Joseph. They were married for many years...she wasn't a nun. Think about it...Sex is not something bad. Used within the context of marriage it is God-ordained, so I am not putting her down by saying this. She was just very human. It is her humanness that makes the death of Yeshua so difficult. If she were some supernatural being instead of a simple Jewish woman living by the customs of her day, it would change the story. When we cast her in stone, or make statues, paintings and other images of her with a halo, we take her out of her real context and distort who she was, especially in relation to Yeshua. In Hebrew thought, simple ordinary things of life are very spiritual, so a good Jewish mother is quite sacred, she doesn't have to be carved in stone.

I hope that helps.

Joyce
 
Susanna,
...and whether you believe it or not, I too bless you and pray that God will continue to reveal Himself to you through His Word, since you so read it. If you read my last post on Miriam/Mary, you will see how I see her...a woman who was blessed to carry Yeshua, but a woman, not a statue, or a perpetual virgin or immaculate or ascended into heaven without dying, etc. I am not against Catholics as I said on this forum in the past. I am against the teachings and doctrine of the Catholic church. I would be equally critical of a Protestant or Messianic Jew who does something that is against the Scriptures. On the issue of homosexual marriage for example, this is clearly a violation of the Scriptures and some Methodists and Anglicans are practicing this and God calls it an abomination, so, so do I. Do I hate homosexuals? Do I hate Methodists and Anglicans? No. I'm am simply pointing out a practice that does not align with the Scriptures and am in strong disagreement with those elements within the two denominations who practice, marry and ordain homosexuals. I can critique the Catholic Church and not be against people who attend it. I am able to make this separation, so maybe that's hard for some on the forum to understand.

You are simply following what you were raised with, as I did for a certain number of years. If I bring up a subject in relation to the Scriptures, I have no intention of attacking you personally. If you have a disagreement, as you do, we can have an intelligent discussion without thinking we are "enemies". As I said, had you not been so strong in your discussions about "conservative Catholics" v.s. liberal ones, I probably never would have mentioned it. I have a problem with the whole Catholic Church, yes, but I realize within in are people who truly love God and probably are following what they were taught. I do however challenge you to think "outside the box" about the teachings you were raised with...I am one who thinks the RCC will play an important role in the coming apostasy, so that's my motivation...

Blessings,
Joyce
 
Young grasshopper,
I would encourage you too, to persevere in the spiritual battle. It can be fatiguing at times, but remember when you present truth, you will often have opposition.
Blessings,
Joyce
 
On the financial markets two very interesting pieces, one from the IHT:

http://tiny.cc/6Zxxx

http://iht.com/articles/2008/07/08/business/mortgage.php

..and one from Joan Veon, who is very sharp and goes to all the UN, IMF globalist type meetings and has been for 20 some odd years.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Veon/joan54.htm

Constance might have some differences with her as far as the British Royal family, not sure, but she's certainly interesting and knows the financial business.

Joyce
 
Anon 6:40 a.m.

Matthew 13:55 "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses,[h] Simon, and Judas? 56 And His sisters, are they not all with us?"

Mark 6:3 " Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us?"
 
Susanna:

Regarding your comment of 7:56 AM:
"As for the sex scandals in the Catholic Church involving clergy, a couple of members of a predatory sect claiming to be "Christian" had the nerve to ask me not long ago how I could even THINK of remaining Catholic in the wake of the sex scandals involving Catholic priests."


Here is my answer:
Since statistics reveal that only about 3% of Catholic priests were involved in sex scandals, leaving the majority of 97% in good standing - that same argument could be turned around to ask non-Catholics a similar question. Since most non-Catholics send their children to public schools, and statistics have shown that their teacher/student sex scandals have increased TEN fold, how can they justify allowing their children to remain in these public schools?

I guess it comes down to what is known as "selective morality."

Time to remove that "spec" (or is it a boulder) from their OWN eye???
 
On the issue of how the Catholic Church views Mary, why rely on anecdotal evidence and questionable sources? Let’s go straight to the real source. The current Catechism of the Catholic Church was prepared at the request of Pope John Paul II. It was prepared by a commission chaired by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger who is now Pope Benedict XVI. In regards to Mary it says the following:

• “As St. Irenaeus says, ‘Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race.’… ‘The knot of Eve’s disobedience was untied by Mary’s obedience …’ Comparing her with Eve, they [‘the early Fathers’] call Mary ‘the Mother of the living’ and frequently claim: ‘Death through Eve, life through Mary.’” (#494)

• “Mary … was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.” (#411)

• “‘Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things …’” (#966)

• “By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All-Holy One. We give ourselves over to her now, in the Today of our lives.” (#2677)

• “You [‘O Mother of God’] … by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.” (#966)

• “‘Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.’” (#969)

• “In Mary, the Holy Spirit manifests the Son of the Father, now become the Son of the Virgin. She is the burning bush of the definitive theophany. Filled with the Holy Spirit she makes the Word visible in the humility of his flesh. It is to the poor and the first representatives of the gentiles that she makes him known.” (#724)

Let’s move on the real topic of this blog, the New Age. Are there any New Age doctrines in the catechism? Check out the following:

• “… by Baptism, he [‘the Father’] incorporates us into the Body of his Christ; through the anointing of his Spirit who flows from the head to the members, he makes us other ‘Christs.’… ‘So then you who have become sharers in Christ are appropriately called ‘Christs.’ ’” (#2782)

• “Christ and his Church thus together make up the ‘whole Christ’ (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity: ‘Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself.… Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ.’” (#795)

• “The Eucharist is our daily bread. The power belonging to this divine food makes it a bond of union. Its effect is then understood as unity, so that, gathered into his Body and made members of him, we may become what we receive. . . .” (#2837)

• “[Who then is the priest? He is] … divinized and divinizes.” (#1589)

• “Created in a state of holiness, man was destined to be fully ‘divinized’ by God in glory.” (#398)

• “The Church is essentially both human and divine …” (#771)

• “The grace of Christ … is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism.” (#1999)

• “‘For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.’ ‘The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.’” (#460)

To give proper credit, I found all of this in Chapter Twelve of Tamara Hatzell’s book, Deceived On Purpose. I did look some of the statements up myself just to confirm that they were accurate
 
Sorry for the mistake, but Tamara Hartzell's book is called In the Name of Purpose.
 
Anon 12:42

Bravo! I would only add to what you said by saying that as you well know, the Rule of the Catholic faith is Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

If a person rejects Sacred Tradition, then he had better ditch his Bible, because the Bible is not only part of that Sacred Tradition, but is inseparable from it.

Where do Christians think the Bible came from?

As the late Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen once quipped, at Pentecost Books did not descend on the heads of the Apostles. The Holy Spirit did in the form of tongues of fire.

The fact is that the Church did not come from the Bible. The Bible Has been handed down to us by the Church.

Moreover, in the first couple of centuries of Christianity, there was NO Bible as we know it today. The Good News was mostly transmitted orally.

During the Reformation, Martin Luther decided to trade in the ancient Greek Septuagint (285-246 B.C.) for a translation based on the Hebrew Bible whose canon was established at the Council of Jamnia under the leadership of Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D..

However, it is the Septuagint that is most often quoted in the New Testament and was the translation most commonly in use at the time of Christ because Greek was the language most commonly spoken.

This is one reason why all things that Catholics believe are not to be found explicitly stated in the Bible - especially the Protestant Old Testament canon.

But in all fairness to our Protestant brethren, they do not completely write off what they refer to as the "apocryphal" books not included in the Hebrew Bible. They regard them as being of value for moral uses.

But in the last analysis, where in ANY Christian Bible - Cathoic or Protestant - does it clearly state that the Bible alone (Sola Scriptura) is to be the Christian Rule of faith?

It doesn't. (And 2 Timothy 3:15 isn't explicit enough to cut it as a "proof text" for "Sola Scriptura" either.)

But if you read the writings of the early Church Fathers like Athanasius, Epiphanius, Hilary, Didymus, Ambrose, Jerome, Siricius, - and especially the Apostolic Fathers like St. Polycarp who knew the Apostles and his disciple, St. Irenaeus, you will find plenty in their writings to substantiate Catholic Mariology.

At the end of the day, if an inquiring mind still don't agree with it, fine. But at least he will have a truer idea of what Catholics REALLY believe about Mary.
 
P.S.

Anon 12:42 I meant to sign the comment posted immediately above this post script. Sorry. :-)
 
Susanna,

I heard that Joyce was actually offered the papacy in April 2005 by the papal concllave, but she declined it because she was unwilling to give up her infallibility.
 
Susanna,

I heard that Joyce was actually offered the papacy in April 2005 by the papal concllave, but she declined it because she was unwilling to give up her infallibility.
 
Susanna,

I did not really offer any commentary about the statements that I posted from the Catechism of the Catholic church but I consider all of them to be pure heresy. Sorry if I confused you.
 
The issue of Mary's virginity is important for theological and historical reasons. The importance of her virgin birth reflects the Church's teachings regarding ancestral sin and the Fall. The Church Fathers teach that death entered the world through Adam's sin. The first obedience given to Adam was essentially a fast: abstain from a certain "food." Before the Fall, the Fathers teach that Adam's soul and understanding was not bound by the passions and biological necessity. After the Fall, Man became subject to the distorting and harmful effects of the passions that are part of our fallen biological nature: the need to eat, drink, procreate, seek pleasure, and avoid pain.

The Church Fathers teach that when the Second Person of the Trinity became incarnate, He did so through the mystery and grace of God - not through a carnal passion. As such, Christ was not subject to ancestral sin as we are who have inheritted the lot of Adam and have entered the world through the sexual passions of our parents. Mary was chosen because of her righteousness and purity. (The Roman Catholic doctrine of the immaculate conception is unique to Catholicism. It is not part of Eastern Orthodoxy and it was rejected by St. Thomas Aquinas and other Roman Catholic teachers.) To suggest she was not a virgin before, during, or after giving birth to Christ raises several theological difficulties that the Church addressed in the first centuries of Her existence.

Biblically speaking, there is also an issue with the prophetic tradition associated with the virgin birth. While scholars and religious believers have argued for centuries over the Septuagint, the Hebrew word used in Isaiah 7:14 is "almah" and can be translated as "young woman" or "virgin." While some scholars argue that almah cannot be rendered as "virgin," others have argued it can. Skeptics regarding the virgin birth point to the use of the Greek word "parthenos" and question whether it is an accurate translation of the Hebrew word "almah" as it is used in Isaiah. I do not have the requisite knowledge or expertise to determine the answer - I only point it out for those who are interested in looking further into the issue. However, at the very least, the issue is not easily settled. That the early Church and the Church Fathers embraced the idea of a virgin birth for prophetic and theological reasons warrants closer inspection: after all, early Jewish Christians such as Origen and Philo were not uneducated or stupid. And, neither were later Fathers such as Justin Martyr, St. Ireneaus, the Cappadocians, St. Athanasius, et al.

Lastly, questioning the virgin birth is troubling because it has been used by New Agers to question the validity of Christ.
 
P.P.S.

Anonymous 1:52

You didn't. I was going to post "Sarcasm off" but other posters beat me in posting.
 
Anon 12:42

Actually, there are even some passages of Scripture that can be given a "New Age" spin.

For example:

John 10:32-34, "Jesus replied, 'I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these are you going to stone me?' The Jews answered, 'It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you, but for blasphemy, because you, though only a human being, are making yourself God." Jesus answered, 'Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'?"

John 10:32-34
 
I agree, sorry to see little Grasshopper's blog go. Take care of yourself, Grasshopper. Thanks for all the good and brave work, and may God bless you.
 
Susanna, Joyce,
Since you have been discussing
differences between the Roman Catholic and Protestant views on
various subjects, in particular --
the place of the Mother of God in the
Christian Church, I deem it necessary
to present you with the Orthodox Christian point of view.
First, historically, the Church of Rome has been a part of the
One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Regrettably, throughout the centuries
some of the Roman bishops have begun gradually developing innovative doctrines of
supremacy (in terms of administrative and dogmatic authority) of the Roman Church
over the entire Christian Church, which was, in a sense, an instance of
"humanism" -- the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who is the Head of the Church, was substituted with a human as a head of the Church -- the Bishop of Rome, the "Pontifex Maximus". These aspirations for earthly world domination, together
with the introduction of the "filioque" addition to the Nicene Creed
(meaning "and [from] the Son", which they added after "...the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father"), led to Rome's
falling away from the Church in 1054. Additional peculiarities which Rome
developed throughout the centuries are the doctrine of the infallibility
of the Pope, the doctrines of purgatory and the "Immaculate Conception" of the
Mother of God, the "superabundant treasury of merits" and, in general, a
legalistic/mechanistic views on Salvation. Another erroneous practice which was
introduced by Rome was the COMPULSORY celibacy of Priests. The distortions
of Christian Tradition by the Roman Catholic Church led to the appearance of
the Protestant/Reformation movement, which, unfortunately, instead of returning
to the Orthodox Christian Faith, went into another
kind of extremes -- rejection of the Holy Tradition for the sake of the
"sola scriptura" doctrine, rejection of the veneration (NOT worship!)
of the Mother of God and the Saints, and others. It is unfortunate that
after the 11th century the Western Christians did not have much access to
the completeness of Orthodox Christianity, mainly because of political
circumstances -- nations in the East who have remained traditionally
Orthodox, were overrun by Muslim invaders, or had to deal with
Tatar-Mongol domination. However, throughout the centuries, the Eastern
Orthodox Churches have succeeded in preserving the authentic
Christian Tradition, and have brought forth many new Martyrs and Saints.
Then, the misfortunate 20th century came -- a century of violence and apostasy,
when forces, hostile to Christianity, were not only viciously persecuting
Christians -- remember the violent Communist regimes (some of which still
exist!), but also tried infiltrating the Orthodox Church in order to involve
it in the ecumenical movement. About an instance of such infiltration you can
read the essay "A Major Step on the Path Towards Apostasy" by Bishop Photii
of Triaditsa (part I http://tinyurl.com/6xbqtq part II
http://tinyurl.com/6zquxz), where the author brings a proof that the
person (Patriarch Meletios of Constantinople) who introduced for the first time the so-called "New Calendar"
(a controversial issue which has caused many problems in the Orthodox Church),
in order to facilitate the participation of the Orthodox Church in the
ecumenical movement (read: the process of building of a relativistic
"Religion of the Future"), was, in fact, "initiated into Masonry in Constantinople as a member of the Masonic Lodge "Harmony," as reported in the Journal Pathagore-Equerre (Vol. IV, Part 7–8, 1935)". My impression is that
in our time there is a tendency in the official Orthodox Churches to substitute
genuine Orthodox Christian Tradition with something which is more in sync
with the global ecumenical rush towards apostasy. This might be in part related
to infiltration by external groups, but is also caused by indifference
on part of the "craddle Orthodox", placing of "comfort" above searching
for God's Truth.
Constance,
Fr. Seraphim Rose whom you quoted, is one of the few representatives of the
Living Tradition of the Orthodox Christian Church. He had as his teachers
some of the last great pillars of Orthodox Christianity --
Saint John (Maximovich) of Shanghai, and Archbishop Averky (Taushev),
which allowed him to have a glimpse on Ancient Christianity, and to
give a very sober assessment of our times of apostasy in his book.
You can read about Archbishop Averky at this page: http://tinyurl.com/5c2cap .
 
Susanna,
I beg to differ with you as to the timing of the writing of the gospels and epistles. Those were all written in the 1st Century by the Apostles, not by the Church Fathers. There was not much mention of Mary after the death of Yeshua, at all. If you do a quick search she shows up in the Book of Acts a couple of times. There is a Mary that is mentioned in the book of Romans, but it does not appear to be the same Mary (Miriam).

As for using the "Church Fathers" for the foundation of Biblical faith, I for one would take great exception to that. From what I can read of the Church Fathers, a number of them were ready to dispose of the Torah, Writing and Prophets. As a Jew, I have great difficulty with this, since HaShem punished my people for centuries for their disobedience to Torah. The Torah was relegated to the level of an "Old Testament". To my understanding HaShem did not make "testaments". He made covenants to which He will be faithful.

The newer or renewed Covenant, or the Brit Hadasha, depending on your leaning is when the Torah is written on our hearts, that is the heart of the House of Judah and the House of Israel. See the passage in Jer 31:31-33. The nations are welcomed to come into the covenants with Israel through the blood of Yeshua, in fact Israel herself is required to accept the blood of Yeshua, because it failed miserably in obeying God's Torah, and that was the plan from the beginning anyway. Yeshua is YHVH who became flesh. They are echad, not a trinity, but that's another discussion.

Because we have elevated the traditions of men above the Word of God, to quote Yeshua, Himself we cannot see the Scriptures through our own dogma sometimes.


Rom. 11:25 For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, of this secret — that ye may not be wise in your own conceits — that hardness in part to Israel hath happened till the fulness of the nations may come in;
Rom. 11:26 and so all Israel shall be saved, according as it hath been written, ‘There shall come forth out of Sion he who is delivering, and he shall turn away impiety from Jacob,
Rom. 11:27 and this to them [is] the covenant from Me, when I may take away their sins.’


The expression "fulness of the nations" is only used one other place in the Bible to my knowledge and it is here:

Gen. 48:19 But his father refused and said, “I know, my son, I know; he also will become a people and he also will be great. However, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations.”


Multitude of nations (melo ha goyim in Hebrew) according to the BDBriggs lexicon can also be translated "fulness of the nations". Ephraim, along with the 9 other tribes who joined them and went into Northern exile, were subsequently scattered in several waves of Assyrian exile never to corporately return. Israel's blessing to his grandson, Ephraim, who receive the double portion as he was elevated to sonship, from position of a grandson, would literally become the "fulness of the nations".

As the gospel of the kingdom goes out to all the nations, scattered Israel, who is in the nations and has lost its identity ( see the whole book of Hosea for further information about how HaShem divorced the Northern Kingdom for spiritual adultery) will be saved.

HaShem's covenants always were and always will be with Israel...hear me closely now, I did not say "the Jews". The Jews are part of Israel, yes, but by no means ALL of Israel. The Jews represent 2 1/2 tribes of Israel and perhaps some who joined them.

God does not have a church. He has an ekklesia, a qahal, a called out assembly. See the Greek Septuagint which translates qahal to ekklesia. As such God never made " a church". He has had one called out assembly from the beginning and we are all welcome to come into this covenant with Him through the precious shed blood of Yeshua HaMaschiach.

If you want to come into the New Jerusalem one day, you must come in through the gates which have on them the names of the 12 tribes of Israel. So far as I can see there is no "church gate".

Rev. 21:12 It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.

I don't mean to be facetious, but when we take liberties in translation we can create unnecessary confusion. Imagine if we all saw ourselves being grafted in to the same olive tree by the blood of Yeshua? Maybe we would have true Biblical unity, instead of the unity of the antimessiah.


Just some food for thought.

Blessings,
Joyce
 
No, Jesus did not have any biological siblings. His mother, Mary remained a virgin throughout her life.

"Brethren" in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and other languages had no special words for different types of relationships, such as are found in more modern languages. All members of the same family, clan and tribe were referred to as "brethren."

Jesus had different types of relatives - some on his mother's side, others on St. Joseph's side.

Mt 13:55-56 mentions, as living in Nazareth, James, Joseph, Simon and Judas ("his brethren") and elsewhere there is reference to Jesus' "sisters" (cf. Mk 6:3). But in Mt 27:56 we are told that James and Joseph were sons of another Mary, distinct from the Blessed Virgin, and that Simon and Judas were not the brothers of James and Joseph, but seemingly children of a brother of St. Joseph.

Jesus, on the other hand, was known to everyone as "the son of Mary" (Mk 6:3) or "the carpenter's son" (Mt 13:55).

"Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?" Mark 6:3-4
"Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brethren James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all his sisters with us?" Matthew 13:55-56

James and Joses are in Matthew, Mark, and John's Gospels referred to as the sons of Mary the wife of Clophas (Matthew 27:55, Mark 15:40 and John 19:25). Many early Church historians believe that Clophas and Joseph, Jesus' foster-father, were either brothers or cousins. Regardless, it does refer to Mary the wife of Clophas as the sister of Mary the mother of Jesus. This would explain the use of the word "brethren" or "brothers" in the two verses referenced to earlier. We know less about Simon and Judas, but the fact is that Jesus had no siblings.

Within the Jewish tradition, it would be unlikely for a son to entrust his mother to another man, who was not a brother, if he had other siblings. In John's Gospel we read:

When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple, John whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman behold, your son!" Then he said to the disciple, John, "Behold, your mother!"

And from that hour the disciple took her to his home. (John 19:26-27)

Within the Jewish tradition, if the father is deceased, the mother is the responsibility of the eldest son. If he dies the mother is then entrusted to the next son in line.

It just wouldn't make sense for Jesus to entrust Mary to John, nor for John to take her into his home if she already had family to live with.
 
The decisive proof, however, is that the father and mother of at least two of these "brethren" are known to us. James and Joseph, or Joses, are, as we have seen, the sons of Alpheus, or Clopas, and of Mary, the sister of Mary the Mother of Jesus, and all agree that if these are not brothers of the Saviour, the others are not. This last argument disposes also of the theory that the "brethren" of the Lord were the sons of St. Joseph by a former marriage. They are then neither the brothers nor the step-brothers of the Lord. James, Joseph, and Jude are undoubtedly His cousins. If Simon is the same as the Symeon of Hegesippus, he also is a cousin, since this writer expressly states that he was the son of Clopas the uncle of the Lord, and the latter's cousin. But whether they were cousins on their father's or mother's side, whether cousins by blood or merely by marriage, cannot be determined with certainty. Mary of Clopas is indeed called the "sister" of the Blessed Virgin (John 19:25), but it is uncertain whether "sister" here means a true sister or a sister-in-law. Hegesippus calls Clopas the brother of St. Joseph. This would favour the view that Mary of Clopas was only the sister-in-law of the Blessed Virgin, unless it be true, as stated in the manuscripts of the Peshitta version, that Joseph and Clopas married sisters. The relationship of the other "brethren" may have been more distant than that of the above named four.
 
I'm sick about the bickering. I'm just getting ready to go on the air with Wayne Madsen on www.themicroeffect.com. I will be on the air with Dr. Monteith on Thursday night at 8 pm. Pacific time and 11 p.m. Thursday night. Friday night, i will in addition to my own program do an 11:15 pm. show with Pastor Leighton Smith of New York City.

Constance
 
Wow Joyce, you sure do have a high opinion of yourself, reserving the right to cast judgment on whose interpretations of scripture are "correct" (i.e. those Joyce agrees with) and whose are "wrong" and "apostate" (i.e. those Joyce disagrees with).

Talk about an arrogant attitude! It does explain why you spend so much time posting here, though. I cannot seriously contemplate that anyone in the real world would actually have the patience to sit and listen to such egocentric drivel.

Why is that Christians are held in such low esteem by so much of the "secular culture"? Gee, maybe some people here should take a look in the mirror!
 
"Saudi king set to lead rare interfaith talks in Spain", article in Christian Science.

I heard on ACLJ Muslims are making a move to have Sharia Law within their communities in countries rather than abiding by the countries laws.

The NWO leader will not be married and will shun women so that leaves Sarkozy and Salana out. Am I wrong?

People will loose their heads which is Sharia.

Muslims have formed a coalition in the UN as a voting block.

The old but still active Common Wealth nations can also control the UN looks like the lines are being drawn.

Of interest is the Aspen Ideas Festival with heavy hitters like James Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan Chase, the bank is part of the Federal Reserve along with Goldman Sachs.

kck
 
Joyce:

Well, you are certainly an expert on "conceit" and also in "taking liberties with translation" ... as in assuming that Jesus had "brothers" in the literal sense of the word.

Shame on you for spreading such irresponsible ERRORS on this blog!!!
 
16) As for the word that you have spoken to us in the name of the Lord, we will not listen to you.
17 ) But we will certainly do every word that has gone forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense to the queen of heaven and to pour out drink offerings to her as we have done, we and our fathers, our kings and our princes in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; for then we had plenty of food and were well and saw no evil.
18 ) But since we left off burning incense to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her we have lacked everything and have been consumed by sword and by famine.

19)
[___you read the rest ]
 
Jeremiah 44:16-18...and your point is???
 
News and views of Constance Cumbey concerning "Radical Middle", New Age Movement, Communitarianism, "planetary humanism," "global governance," European Union, Javier Solana, Jeremy Rifkin, "New Age Politics," law in the USA, combined with life in general -- sometimes humorous, sometimes not!

Did I miss this becoming the blog of the Harvard Divinity School?
 
ANONYMOUS 5:02:

You must be new here.

Grab a seat.
 
Anon 4:45 p.m.

Joyce didn't post the scriptures about the siblings of Jesus, *I* did. And I should have owned up to it in the first place. My apologies to Joyce...although the rest of you may have noticed that she DOES have the courage to sign her name to her posts. :-)

It has been my understanding that the "virgin" Mary did not remain a virgin after having give birth and, quite frankly, I would have to have more proof than someone's say so here that this is the case before I believe it.

That being said...

I appreciate having come across Constance's work and research. It has been a blessing in my life, it truly has. Constance, thank you for that.

However, I am going to say goodbye now. :-)

And, again, I'm sorry that I placed Joyce in this position. It was immature and irresponsible of me to not sign my name to that post.

Take care, everyone.

Lynn
 
I've been here long enough to know the purpose of the blog. It wasn't meant to be an interfaith open house with every table hoping to convert passerbys. The only thing missing is pamphlets on tables.

Dorothy
 
Everyone knows that there is only ONE person on this blog who is trying to "convert" others over to her beliefs and that is Joyce.
 
Sorry if this hurts feelings, but the way I see it is very few people posting over here are willing to do any real work to research the New Age movement other than dragging in a link here and there, expecting others will do the follow up work. What they know is their religion, little else, so they parade it here under the guise that it is somehow fighting the New Age movement when it just is a diversion from the real work that needs to be done.

Egos on parade.

Why not just post recipes. At least it would be more useful.

Dorothy
 
The traditions of men that Christ condemns have been understood by the Church Fathers to refer to the traditions and legalisms of the Pharisees (St. Basil for one has written about this, as has St. Justin Martyr in his Dialogues with Trypho). The importance of the Church Fathers lies in the importance of tradition. Joyce mentions man-made traditions. If I am not mistaken, Jewish tradition claims Moses received both a written Torah and an oral Torah. The Talmud with the Mishnah and Gemara represent commentaries and interpretations of prominent Rabbis within the Judaic tradition. In the Orthodox Church and pre-schism Roman Catholic Church, the Church did not "invent" dogma but defended what had been taught and believed everywhere by everyone - the classic Vincentian formula. The great Church councils, although frought occassionally with political issues, served to affirm both the praxis and theoria of the Orthodox confession of Christianity. This is what the writings of the Fathers testify to - what has been confessed and believed as Orthodox Christian doctrine everywhere and at all times. Of course, there were disagreements and some churches, such as the Copts and Armenians, did not agree with every Council. Nonetheless, the councils have been understood as being guided by the Holy Spirit for the purposes of preserving the Faith. Additionally, as strange as it may sound to Western ears, Orthodoxy has always considered itself to be an empirical science for healing the soul. The experience of the prophets, apostles, disciples, and saints all testify to the Truth of the faith. In the lives of pious practicing Christians, this means they actually experience the Grace or uncreated light of God as was experienced on Mt. Tabor and on Mt. Sinai. The result is an illumination of the soul that, in some way, allows the perrson to enter into communion with the Grace of the Divine Trinity. As a result, the Church has traditions that reflect what saints have learned from their direct experience of God and it confesses these things as part of its experience and understanding of God. As a Jewish person, this should not strike you as too strange given the idea of the yored merkvah.

In sum, there is a mystical dimension in Orthodox Christianity that is a lived experience. In this regard, the Bible is not the sole determinant of what the Faith confesses. Of course, none of this may sound convincing; it's only meant to indicate that these matters are more complex than refering to Biblical passages, translation of terms, etc. In the end, for the believing Christian, the point of our Faith is, as St. Seraphim of Sarov said, "to acquire the Grace of the Holy Spirit." Once this is done after we heal ourselves of sin through the Mysteries of the Church, the Holy Spirit reveals things to the inner heart of the person. However, part of this requires a correct understanding of what God is as revealed by Him, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In this regard, whether or not someone ascribes to the belief of the Virgin birth may not determine if they are saved by God's mercy; however, it they have a distorted understanding of the passions and don't propertly revere the Mother of God, it could have practical consequences in their level of personal piety -- and this could effect how the approach God, the Church, Christ, and fellow human beings. In the end, we pray for God's mercy and that He may also enlighten us in regard to His Truth.
 
I think I'll just join the crowd and think of new ways to fight the New Age movement.

Just think, as you enjoy this recipe you won't have time to be tempted toward the occult. If you give it to a neighbor, the time they spend making it will be less time for them to read their horoscopes.

1-1/4 cups cold milk
1/4 tsp. almond extract
2 pkg. (4-serving size each) JELL-O Cheesecake Flavor Instant Pudding & Pie Filling
2 cups thawed COOL WHIP Whipped Topping, divided
1/4 cup plus 2 Tbsp. PLANTERS Sliced Almonds, toasted, divided
1 NILLA Pie Crust (6 oz.)

POUR milk and almond extract in large bowl. Add dry pudding mixes. Beat with wire whisk 2 minutes. Gently stir in 1 cup of the whipped topping. (Mixture will be thick.) Sprinkle 1/4 cup of the almonds onto bottom of crust; cover with the pudding mixture.
SPREAD remaining whipped topping over pudding layer; sprinkle with remaining 2 Tbsp. almonds. Cover.
REFRIGERATE several hours until chilled. Store leftover pie in refrigerator.

Dorothy
 
Joyce,

First of all, I didn't say the Church Fathers wrote the New Testament, but they were the ones who decided which books were to be included in the canon of the New Testament. The four - Gospel canon was in place around the beginning of the second century and St. Irenaeus referred to it directly.

In any case, for Catholics, Sacred Tradition begins with the revelation given by Christ directly to the Apostles who preserved it intact and handed it on to their successors.

______________________________

"The Biblical canon is the set of books Christians regard as divinely inspired and thus constituting the Christian Bible. Though the Early Church used the Old Testament according to the canon of the Septuagint (LXX), the apostles did not otherwise leave a defined set of new scriptures; instead the New Testament developed over time.
The Biblical canon is the set of books Christians regard as divinely inspired and thus constituting the Christian Bible. Though the Early Church used the Old Testament according to the canon of the Septuagint (LXX), the apostles did not otherwise leave a defined set of new scriptures; instead the New Testament developed over time.
The writings attributed to the apostles circulated amongst the earliest Christian communities. The Pauline epistles were circulating in collected form by the end of the first century AD. Justin Martyr, in the early second century, mentions the "memoirs of the apostles," which Christians called "gospels" and which were regarded as on par with the Old Testament.....read more.....

http://tinyurl.com/h96xb

http://tinyurl.com/2j8tbx
______________________________

You might want to consider reading all of the writings of the Church Fathers. Here they are free online.

http://tinyurl.com/5lbeuh
 
This is incredibly weird.

I left a message here this afternoon, thanking everyone for their kind comments about my blog and letting people know I have decided to keep it going due to an event that happened yesterday.

I can't find my message anywhere!!

I know I checked to make sure that it posted. This is really troubling to me.

At any rate, amongst your bickering, can someone please point me to an article I can use amongst unbelievers to show them that the UN treaty on Sustainable Development is evil and about population control and putting the environment (gaia) above people? Please help me here. I am in the midst of a maelstrom at the art forum where I am a member.

In the comment that I can't find , I also asked Constance if she is having trouble publishing her blog due to errors written into the html code? Constance?



I hope this comment doesn't disappear too!

stop fighting!

I have directed a lot of unblelievers to this blog!
 
Young Grasshopper, I'm sure there is a Bible quote that will cover your question. When you show it to to the art community, they will fall to their knees in wonder and no longer question the problems with the environmental movement.

At least that's the feeling I'm getting these days from this blog.

Dorothy
 
Dorothy,

Of course you are absolutely right, Dorothy, in saying that this blog "wasn't meant to be an interfaith open house with every table hoping to convert passerbys...."

It is not my intention to try to "convert" anyone, and it certainly was never my intention to get involved in religious polemics on this blog, but the person who began the Catholic - baiting here has done so before and it appears that the ones she "baited" were too intimidated to challenge her.

My postings are here for all to read as are hers. Everyone knows how this got started and under what pretext.

I do indeed apologize to you and especially to Constance for wandering off topic. I will be staying on topic from now on.

LOL By the way Dorothy, that recipe sounds great! I will have to try it.
 
Young Grasshopper,

Here is what I was able to find on the evils of Sustainable Development. I hope you find it helpful.

http://tinyurl.com/67s32
http://tinyurl.com/6pufe8
http://tinyurl.com/5ewmbe

http://tinyurl.com/bg5dt
http://tinyurl.com/5rtgc9
http://tinyurl.com/5tt4s3
http://tinyurl.com/5o6aab

Have you ever heard of "terminator technology?" Check out the following.

http://tinyurl.com/5gmot2
http://tinyurl.com/6r4qu5
http://tinyurl.com/5nlhze
http://tinyurl.com/6f67fh
http://tinyurl.com/5pk8v9
http://tinyurl.com/5lu2tb
http://tinyurl.com/5pnua5
http://tinyurl.com/6xp8gb
 
Susanna,
Joyce gives out distorted information and then challenges others to correct it. I told her to back off a number of times saying that's not the purpose of this blog. Rose (Catholic) did also, as did Rita. Acting like an army tank and being about as subtle, she just carried on with her very lengthy diatribes, day after day, hijacking the blog. Others joined in, supposedly protecting their religious views, but from whom I'll never know.

I'm Jewish. I'm very familiar with the Catholic church and like it. have no problem with the Protestants I know and like. The thing we are all fighting is forced participation in a belief system that we disagree with. That battle goes back hundreds if not thousands of years as power, in whatever form, wants to force others to join in what they believe will lead to utopia.

Right now the larger community is being led by the nose into accepting New Age beliefs, and I think, though I don't know for sure, that that movement is even larger than the Muslims who are forcing their religion on others. Most other groups have come to a state of tolerance though not agreement with other belief systems, and that's the most we can hope for in this imperfect world.

We know what Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Christians, and other groups believe because they are open about their beliefs. The New Age system is deceptive. What we can best do is bring it out into the clean air, point out why it is dangerous and hope that others will use their free will to avoid it.

All of the bickering we do among our selves will only take away from the little time we have to expose the dangers of the New Age movement. Those who are concerned about the one world religion side of New Age can focus on that. Those concerned about the political side can focus on that. Some will focus on both sides.

We need every fighter against the NA movement that is willing to do some work, no matter how little.

This is long enough.

Dorothy
 
I came across a 1957 interview of Margaret Sanger on this website.

http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/multimedia/video/2008/wallace/sanger_margaret_t.html

WALLACE: Do you believe in sin -- When I say believe I don't mean believe in committing sin do you believe there is such a thing as a sin?

SANGER: I think the greatest sin in the world is bringing children into the world--that have disease from their parents, that have no chance in the world to be a human being practically. Delinquents, prisoners, all sorts of things just marked when they're born. That to me is the greatest sin -- that people can -- can commit..


Savvy
 
Dorothy,

Not only am I aware that you are Jewish, but I am also aware that not every Christian posting here is Catholic.

It was my understanding, moreover, that this is supposed to be a non-sectarian blog.

It is precisely out of respect for the beliefs of others that I generally avoid discussing specifically Catholic beliefs except when necessary to provide a context for comments I make so that people can understand what I am talking about....i.e. the Liberal Catholic Church and its "valid but illicit" ordinations - which Catholics need to be made aware of precisely because the ordinations and consecrations are VALID and the liturgies celebrated by these Liberal Catholic Church clergymen may have enough surface similarities to the Roman Catholic liturgies that unwary Roman Catholics might not be able to tell the difference at first glance.

'Nuff said.

By the way, here is the latest on the satanic crime story that was the original topic of this blog.

http://tinyurl.com/5k8v9p
http://tinyurl.com/4ts3bn


I can tell you from discussions that I have had with my brother who has a couple degrees in law enforcement that includes a Masters Degree in Criminal Justice Administration that if this case ever sees the light of day in a court of law their "demonological" affiliations will probably never come up.

If they are found guilty of anything, it will be of rape, kidnapping, etc. because as my brother so colorfully put it, under the provisions of our Constitution, a person can worship his sneakers as long as he is not breaking the law or violating anyone else's safety or civil rights.

Back in the 1980's there were two police officers, Jerry Simandl and Sandi Gallant who wrote a couple of books and traveled around the country giving seminars on ritualistic crime.

The importance of such knowledge lies in the fact that it can sometimes provide valuable leads in otherwise seemingly "motiveless" crimes.
 
Dorothy,

Just had a problem with my computer and had to close down for a moment, but I wanted to ask you...what are you working on now in terms of your New Age research?

BTW, I meant to pass along this link about ritualistic crime but couldn't get my copy-paste mechanism to function.

http://tinyurl.com/5ror5a
 
Susanna, you've contributed a lot to this blog and I know it as do others. Most of what I wrote wasn't directed specifically to you, but to the others who would wonder what kind of anti-religion person I might be since I don't want to concentrate on end times and prayer. I do a lot thinking described as "on the one hand but on the other hand."

I understand some might be confused by the background of the Liberal Catholic Church which is theosophical so it's good that you cleared that up.

What am I doing?
I searched the Durham case yesterday and found Joy Johnson was associated with the Order of the Morning Star which is connected with the Golden Dawn. A former member of the Order offered information that there are about eighty members around the country. That lead didn't go anywhere so I didn't post it.
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3162064/ or
http://tinyurl.com/6kmnqy

I found Obama linked to some major New Agers but am hoping Constance will write on it as it might get lost in the comments section. If she doesn't, I will.

I took a lead and followed up by searching out the writings of a particular author who seems to be a link between heavy occultists and the popular public. Since someone is working the major part of that information, I'm not posting it until then. It's my belief that writers such as those found at Nexus or Adventures Unlimited are published not to clarify but to bring doubt about the major religions to the reading public.

I'm working with an individual in Israel who is fighting New Age there.

In the past few days I posted a number of things at the-obama-nation to encourage others to post there and Israel Forum as well as here. I sent out a number of emails with information to my email list. Part of it was information from Bjorn's blog.

I went to the doctor at a hospital and heard the receptionist telling someone that she was promoting something like therapeutic touch and that they would feel better if they could raise their aura.

I shopped, cooked, washed dishes, fed the dog and kept my leg propped up. There were some other things but I forget what they were.

Dorothy
 
Susanna, Dorothy and anonymous..whoever you are...

I'm not trying to insult anyone here, just giving another perspective on the Scriptures. Obviously Susanna and I will not arrive at an agreement, because she is a devout Catholic and I am utterly and completely opposed to the doctrines of the RCC, so I'm not going to go on and on about the Church Fathers and what I think about Papal succession and Papal inerrancy, and Vatican II, etc, etc. If I see a remark about the RCC again, I might respond, but otherwise I have no intention of discussing the subject any further.

My reason to bring it up is not to insult the Catholics on the blog, based on my view of Scripture and my view of what is going on in the world today, I see the Catholic Church playing a role in ushering in the antimessiah, so for me it's not a side issue. There's a lot more I could say about this, but I will say one thing...I am not against individual Catholics...I'm against the institution itself and all that it stands for. I just read the Newer Covenant through a different set of lenses than any of you.

If you had listened carefully to my last post, you might have heard my heart which is for reconciliation in Yeshua, the one who has reconciled us first to the Father and then to one another. My heart is to see one body, Jew and Gentile, not like the New Agers, who channel demons and are trying to arrive at the "Christ conciousness" but through Yeshua the spotless Lamb of Pessah, who took away the sins of the world and is coming back one day to reign from Jerusalem AFTER He has defeated the antimessiah...I firmly believe with all of my heart, if we are not watching very carefully in our day, we will be deceived....The Bible says this not me. If I say things on this blog...it's not to offend someone but to provoke some thought about our positions.

Remember Susanna, the Jews of Yeshua's day could not conceive of a Messiah born in Bethlehem.. Had He been born in Jerusalem...well maybe? The Bible talks about a level of deception that will deceive "if possible" even the elect. I take this seriously.

Dorothy, you can help all the Jews in Israel you want, but if you don't bend your knee one day to Yeshua, all of your help will be down the drain. We cannot see God face to face in our sinful conditions. It's not our Jewishness that will bring salvation.. I don't know you but I do care enough about you to tell you that you can keep yourself as busy as you want with your New Age research, but if you don't open up Torah and see Yeshua in it......it's all for nothing. God has allowed our people's eyes to be veiled for a time, but in our generation the veil is being lifted. I said and I will say again, there are no accidents. If you are on this blog it's for a reason. The world will go on without your New Age research, but where will you be without Yeshua?

I have lost 4 very close people this year, but they all knew Yeshua, so I know will be with Abba. Dorothy, I will attach the words of Shimon Kefa...a disciple of Yeshua's , and you can take from it what you like:

“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. “But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. “For David says of Him,‘I SAW THE LORD ALWAYS IN MY PRESENCE;FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, SO THAT I WILL NOT BE SHAKEN. ‘THEREFORE MY HEART WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED; MOREOVER MY FLESH ALSO WILL LIVE IN HOPE; BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY. YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE;YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.’ “Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. “And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY. “This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. “Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. “For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says:
‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET.”’
Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”
Acts 2:37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”
Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. “For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation! Acts 2:22-40

Dorothy, I prefer to have you really angry and insult me, than think that you haven't had a chance to hear the very good news of Yeshua. That's just a matter of conscience. Take the words of Shimon Kefa to heart. He was speaking to those who were near and those who were "far off".

Shalom in Yeshua,
Joyce
 
Dorothy,

Regarding the Durham case,if you haven't already seen these yet, the following videos indicates that the "secret names" that Joy Johnson and Jospeh Craig used were "Lucernia" (Joy) and "Aiden Fera," a.k.a. "Brother Beastfire" (Craig)

http://tinyurl.com/6osazc

http://tinyurl.com/65pxs2

http://tinyurl.com/5tzct5

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=2020

You must have this one:

http://tinyurl.com/6klya8
 
Joyce, I caught your last paragraph when I was reading Suzanna's note. Anger no. Pity yes. You desperately want to teach but since it appears you can't learn anything you have nothing to teach.
Dorothy
 
Suzanna, when I said it didn't go further I meant I couldn't link it to anything political or larger than we already saw. When I followed Cult Awareness Network before they were taken over by the Scientologists, they estimated there were 3,000 plus cults in the US, some very large, most very small. It sometimes seems that those who can't become ofice managers start a cult of some sort. (That's a joke.)

Constance taught me, as she has taught others to look beyond the surface and put the puzzle pieces together. I've got to give her much credit for that. She pointed out that Serbs and Israelis/Jews were thorns in the side of utopian power seekers such as the EU and were targeted for that reason.

The same as here in America, the Israelis are being led into submission by their own people as well as outside forces. In both places the opposition is toothless. As was pointed out earlier here on the blog, the peace plan proposed through the Jerusalem Academy and the peace plan posted at the Indigo Dawn website both show NA interest in subduing the Jewish community by subduing Israel. More proof is what I look for although I realize that's my particular interest and few others may be interested. That they ar Democrats or satanists isn't of much interest to me. It's their mindset and how it influences their political activity that is important as I see it.

Dorothy
 
Joyce,
Thank you for being such a wonderful teacher of the Word of God on this blog.
It's one thing to endlessly talk about the New Age and point out example after example of it, but to bring the Holy Scriptures alive as you have and spell out what the Bible says about it ( what God says about it ) is actually constructive, edifying and worthwhile.

Blessed are you when men persecute you and say all manner of evil against you for Yeshua's sake, for that's exactly what they did to the prophets.

Love,
Paul
 
Thank you, Dorothy for injecting some badly needed "lighter" moments on this blog.

And, Joyce, please back off trying to "convert" Dorothy. It's not YOUR job. If she wants to "be with Abba"(?) - she can go see the movie, "Mama Mia" when it comes out next week!!!

Seriously, Constance we do need some ground rules for this blog. Surely you realize that the "bickering" has mainly come about due to one person's hijacking and domination (about as "subtle as an army tank" I think it was described) of YOUR blog.

As "young grasshopper" pointed out, new "unbelievers have been directed" to your blog. What are they to think about all of this infighting with people who are supposed to be "on the same page"?

Yet, what is a person to do when being challenged to defend deliberate, vicious "errors" being spread about traditional Catholic Church teachings? Are Catholics supposed to just "roll over" and ignore these errors and not speak up?

Constance, you never "roll over" and ignore it when various New Agers challenge you on your Christian beliefs.

And "civility" may be much too broad a term. Are Catholics being "uncivil" when they insist on defending either deliberate or ignorant errors being spread about their church's traditional teachings?

Suggestion: Let's get back to just posting information that will expose the New Age Movement alone. Maybe you could decide to "block" any comments that stray inappropriately off track from the subject?

Some NEW badly needed ground rules -- please, Constance!!!
 
Dorothy,

This is how I learned to do my research. Collect the bits and pieces, don't blow off any information no matter how "off the wall" it might appear on the surface....and sooner or later, the pieces often start to fit...many times in ways that one would least expect. But that is just the point. I learned to do my best to discipline myself to let the facts lead me and not the other way around.

The New Age Movement was part of my research into the occult revival of the 19th-century with a special focus on the occult revival in 19th-century France. It would take to long to go into it here, but there is a "leftist" and "rightist" variation on this theme explicitly described in the 1939 republication of "Ravallette: The Rosicrucian Story" by Paschal Beverly Randolph (republished by R. Swinburne Clymer.)

By the way, the reason for the republication of this book was because the Rosicrucian Fraternity found itself in the crosshairs of the House Committee for Un-American Activities partly on account of a front page photo in the New York Times of H. Spencer Lewis apparently partying with Mussolini. The following is an excerpt from the book I read back in the 1980's

http://tinyurl.com/5llcy6

While it is pooh-poohed by historians now, there was a real fear back then in 1939 that Hitler had established a fifth column here in the United States beginning with his infiltration of the Amerikadeutscher Volksbund ("German American Bund") headed up by would-be American Quisling Fritz Kuhn.

http://tinyurl.com/2jndqm

When I read the book HOLY BLOOD HOLY GRAIL when it first came out, I came across a peculiar chapter on an organization called the Hieron du Val'd'Or. At first I thought it was bogus like some of the other claims made by the authors, but after doing some independent research, I learned that there really was such an organization claiming to be "Catholic"and "traditionalist." But after digging deeper, I learned that if this organization was "Catholic" it was a "catholicism" of its own devising. It promoted what came to be known as the "perennial philosophy" which would appear to have many similarities to the New Age teachings.

Here is the lowdown on a couple of the "founding fathers" of Perennial Philosophy.

http://tinyurl.com/65hxw6

http://tinyurl.com/3y5mxw

In my opinion, this may constitute the "right wing" of the New Age Movement. I apologize in advance if I am telling you something you already know. But as we used to say when I was temping as a researcher for a newspaper "two is better than none." :-)

Speaking of Israel, the news is just breaking here on the East Coast that Iran has conducted missile tests with missiles that have the capability to reach Israel. Not good. Check out the following.

http://tinyurl.com/13q9

http://tinyurl.com/65k4fg
 
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