Monday, May 19, 2008


To the left of Jean Houston picture is a picture of Javier Solana and British Foreign Minister, David Miliband. There is some EU press speculation that Miliband might be posturing to take Solana's EU seat after the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty. There are other reports critical of Miliband calling him "bombastic." "Green Agenda" gave me the tip on this -- you might want to start watching this. My present educated guess is that Solana will convince people that Miliband needs more ripening. Some EU press has speculated that the French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and Javier Solana have some traps laid for Britain's new, maybe brash Foreign Minister. Miliband is a self-proclaimed atheist. He is of Jewish descent, being descended from Warsaw ghetto holocaust survivors. Miliband proposes carbon cards for citizenry -- something possibly ominously paralleling Rev. 13 prophecies of global redistribution. Thanks to GREEN AGENDA for the heads up and it should be most interesting to watch these dynamics play out.

On April 4, 2008, I wrote an article, "Hillary Clinton's New Age Strategists" for I also published same in my own blogspot. I decided to follow up today on the relationship between Hillary Clinton and her former New Age strategists: Jean Houston and Marianne Williamson.

It appears that shortly before the publication of that article as to Marianne Williamson and thereafter as to Jean Houston, for reasons presently unknown to Yours Truly, her two former major New Age advisors have viciously abandoned her. Marianne Williamson (Youtube, March 18th) crudely said she would not be supporting Hillary because she was "not voting with my vagina." Such gratitude (or lack thereof) from somebody whom Hillary and Bill Clinton graciously allowed to convene a Camp David gathering and make their own guest list!

Jean Houston, although a tad more elegant in her cutting down language, was equally treacherous to Hillary Clinton's cause. In a May 12th Los Angeles Times article, she was interviewed from her home in Ashland, Oregon. She was not supporting Hillary either. Hillary did not "properly embody" the feminist image, said Houston.

Houston boycotted Hillary Clinton's Ashland, Oregon fundraiser although she was home that night and claimed Hillary would be happy to see her if she did deign to attend.

I do not know the real reasons Marianne Williamson and Jean Houston have turned on the woman who gave them free run of Camp David and the White House. It may be because of Oprah Winfrey's obvious usefulness to their book sales and not Hillary's own ideological convictions. This, however, I do suspect. If they now dislike Hillary Clinton that much, she must not be as useful to their New Age agenda as they once hoped.

I am not voting in Kentucky nor in Oregon tomorrow, but if I were, knowing that Marianne Williamson and Jean Houston had jumped ship, I might be tempted to board Hillary's vessel, at least for the Primary Election.

May the least New Age among them win! At least Hillary did not display the meanness of spirit shown by her former New Age cum "cultural creative" friends. If they now dislike Hillary that much, she must be doing something right!

Comments: 1 – 200 of 238 Newer› Newest»
Or they see Obama as much more NA and more effective. He seems to be a gold mine for getting people prepared for something.
Yes, I figure Oprah has helped sew up the New Age vote for Obama.

The thing that surprised me and makes me wonder about Obama is...that he and/or his campaign people have GOT to know what Oprah is into. And I realize that as a private citizen, Oprah is free to endorse any political candidate she likes, but she was out there WITH the Obama's on the campaign trail, was she not? And yet Obama must know what she is all about re her spiritual beliefs and practices.

And surely they must know about this? The info has been freely available on the internet for a year now:

This is a link that provides links to Oprah's interview with "Abraham" . This is not the only website to post about that.

And Obama distances himself from Reverend Wright? Yes, he needed to do that, does he feel about New Age? No one is saying anything about that.

I'm not from the U.S. and I don't know what Obama's plans are, but I've been watching this unfold with a great deal of interest.

And I am wondering about the reasons for Oprah's firm endorsement. She's never done that before.

Marianne Williamson is very politically committed to having a 'department of peace' in the White House. I don't know much about Jean Houston. Runs a "mystery school", does she?

New DVD out "BE STILL" (NA to me)

Quite a cadry of "christians" you'll recognize them starting with Cloud.


rest of site

Hey Constance good article as usual. I do live in Oregon and while I smile at your temptation to vote for Hillary, I just can't bring myself to do it. :)

Yes you and I and everyone on this blog knows all about Oprah.

Sadly, the majority of the public does not. Her tv ratings are through the roof. She has her magazine, her radio show, her own prime time show, and her own cable network.

The marketers are well aware of the "Oprah touch".

She has such an influence over lots and lots of people.

I would even go as far to say that many of them believe that she is a "Christian" because she does such good things for other people.

I saw a clip once of her telling the story about her "aha" moment. In this, I think she describes what she does now something better or more than Christianity.

So she is seen doing things better for mankind and a "higher power" is necessary.

One thing about Oprah, there is nothing she does that is not coincidental. I remember Dorothy, a researcher that posted here, told me that everyone that Oprah has on her show is a reason.

Sorry ... off-topic ..
Anyone else seen this?

UK foreign minister mooted for EU job

The UK foreign office has denied reports in a German newspaper that foreign minister David Miliband is looking to become the EU's next foreign policy chief. Die Welt am Sonntag yesterday (18 May) reported "high-ranking EU diplomats" as saying that Mr Miliband had the support of France and other countries to become the high representative for foreign and security policy next year.

He would replace Spain's Javier Solana who has been in the job since 1999. A foreign office spokesperson, quoted by Reuters news agency, said Mr Miliband, who is 42 and is seen as one of the UK governing Labour party's strongest young politicians, was concentrating on his current job.

Miliband plans carbon trading 'credit cards' for everyone
Dear Green Agenda:

I'm a fan of your website. Thanks for the heads up on David Milliband. He certainly does seem to have made some rapid moves -- time will tell. He appears to be of Jewish descent, an atheist, married to a violinist (the carbon credit originator is a viola player).

This should be VERY INTERESTING to watch play out. I see the Queen gave a speech accompanied by Milliband, so it certainly looks like he has been groomed for something.

Time and events will tell, but I wouldn't turn my back on Solana or Milliband at this juncture.

'Currently, I'm completing a volume about Javier Solana, the Barcelona Process, Israel and the European Union.'

Will this new information on Miliband change or influence your writing? L
Here's the Mystery School:

a good friend showed me this a while back. There are connections to this and Damanhur. Alex Gray who has the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors is on staff...and guess who is connected to Damanhur too....Ervin Laszlo.
small world:

There are more connections which I'll send later.

This is the best. Check out the link page on the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors.

WE can see all the connections to the Babylonian Mystery religions coming together.

One I find particularly interesting that is a link is this:

Check out their very prestigious board:

Wharton Business School!!! Daniel Pipes, of MEForum who is considered an expert on Middle East politics..Are we seeing how the Jerusalem Academy and New Age could connect? I think we can imagine some of the dots coming together.

Let's not forget Ken Wilbur, on the COSM site.

Ken Wilbur's site offers ideas about the Middle East

A warning on this one.. but you all may want to see where KEn Wilbur is coming from, if you don't already know:

I think you might get the idea. Ken Wilbur has many more links, but we can connect Alex Gray with the URI and other organizations like the Theosophical society. All we need is the AoC to recruit some of these folks to solve the Arab-Israeli conflict...

Sorry one more. I know I'm bombarding you, but here are Ken's "guests" interesting group including Deepak Chopra and Mariane Williamson, so what kind of White House might we have if Obama gets in?

He might be the chosen vehicle to help usher in this New Age unity, even though I heard him say just today on the news, "I believe in Jesus Christ died for my sins".

His campaign took off from the moment Oprah's endorsement came. I watched this carefully.

You may or may not like CuttingEdge website, but they talk about the "shift" over to Obama too.

I won't promise that this is absolutely the last one, but I'll try not to send more for the moment. I think you will have enough to digest. He talks about Keating, who is widely mentioned by the "comtemplatives" in the Church, so you have the Church being connected to Ken Wilbur:

YOu have to sign into Ken's sites, and I will not, at least not with my computer and my email address so those who are brave and want to delve further, it will be interesting to hear what you find out.

If you look at the teachers on that last link, you will find some very interesting characters....
Constance, interesting how you see H.R. Clinton abandoned. Some time ago you were talking about the Nazis. I believe it was their treachery which elicited my comment: New agers fail to understand, I suppose it's the sin of pride, is that they too will be cast away as garbage. The Devil loves no one. However, I wouldn’t count H.R. out just yet.

Evolution demands that we cannibalize all species for the “good” of mankind.
MPs back creation of human-animal embryos
Yes, as per the last line of your
post, I think I finally like Hillary
a little bit.

Keating and Basil Pennington have been around corrupting both Catholic and Protestant spheres since the 1980s. Curiously, in 1994, I was contacted via fax machine by the Archdiocese of Manila, being referred to them by Human Life International. They wanted information on Keating and Pennington plus one additional speaker. They said that if they were New Age they would cancel their speaking engagements. Keating and Pennington I knew right off the top of my head, but I didn't want to accuse the third without evidence. Tragically, it slipped through the cracks and I didn't reply to the fax. I then, the day the event finished received another fax. They said they had received a fax from a cult watching group in Indianapolis, Indiana assuring them that all of the three were safe and they assumed I had asked the group to reply for me. All 3 scoundrels had spoken that morning!

I was stunned. I sent a fax apologizing for my lack of diligence in the reply, but asking who had responded on my behalf -- I had authorized NOBODY. They then sent me via fax what they had received and I had a telephone call -- he thought the infiltration might have come from their office. I was suspecting that my fax machine was being echoed elsewhere.

A few months later, I had an interesting episode. I had repeated calls from somebody in the Indianapolis - Carmel, Indiana area professing to be a great fan of my work. They left several messages and then a message warning me that this was the last time they would try to contact me. I then returned the call and though the person was surfacely polite, there was a discernible touch of arrogance. I then said, "hey, maybe you can help me solve a mystery." I said what happened. He went, "hmmm, I'm the only cult watching group of which I am aware of in Indianapolis area and my fax machine has been turned off for the last 6 months . . .

I thought, "ok, buddy, I think I've just discovered the culprit, returning to check out the scene of the crime."

Quite bluntly, I was suspecting the same network that had the Goldlake affair with Barbara Marx Hubbard in charge supposedly at Doug Coe's invitation. Paul N. Temple may have been a factor --

Ken Wilber is a great favorite of Al Gore as well as all his other New Age networking attributes. He too has been around as long as I've been looking closely at the New Age Movement (now often called "cultural creatives") -- since 1981.

The GLOBAL DIALOGUE INSTITUTE is Leonard Swidler and his academic assistant, Ingrid Shafer's operation. Swidler has been around for many years. He is also close to Prince Hassan of Jordan, the present president of the Club of Rome. Sometimes I think God gives us our names with a sense of humor. They forgot the "n" in Swidler!

. . . All we need is the AoC to recruit some of these folks to solve the Arab-Israeli conflict...

These folks have for the most part ALL been on board for the Alliance of Civilizations which is one more ugly, but POWERFUL] . for a long time! That includes Swi[n]dler, Deep Pit [Deepak] Cobra [Chopra] . . . It was only a lie put to the Evangelical community by such "watchmen" as SCP, EMNR, Fellowship Foundation, CRI that the New Agers were not politically networked and were not working intentionally.

The funniest over the years was Walter Martin's speech at the EMNR gathering: "The New Age Movement got its start in 1978 and took its name from the name of a magazine . . "

No folks, the New Age Movement is not named after "New Age Magazine." New Age Magazine was named after the long established "New Age Movement."

Those "watchers" gave it cover long enough to get to its present position of power!

To clarify, the "L" who posted at 4:07 is not the same ~L~ who posted at 10:35 here and has been commenting on the Jerusalem Academy thread. :-)

Since there are 2 of us using the same initial now, I'll provide my name and I'll post with that from now on.

~L~ = Lynn
Swindler & Cobra
Sounds like a law firm.

Sounds more like an accounting firm to me! LOL

It could be a P.R. firm

My friend June wrote a long message to me which parallels what was found at the Green Agenda website. It led me to:

June wrote:
Starkey and others of his ilk held a conference last Friday to discuss policies for reducing
personal carbons.

In a 2004 article on carbon credit cards, it said implementation should take place within
ten years.

Obama, the insider New Ager said:
“We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees
at all times … and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK,” Obama said.

“That’s not leadership. That’s not going to happen,” he added.

June writes:
"I just got back from Europe, where all of the hotels have gone ‘green’ and you have to notify the front desk if you want your A/C turned on.

"When they do turn it on, it only stays on for a certain period of time, a few hours tops. Then shuts itself off again, warranting another call to the front desk.

"If you leave your room, it also turns off (you have to put your key in a little slot while in the room for it to work). This also warrants another call to get it turned back on."
The names of over 31,000 American scientists who reject the theory of anthropogenic global warming are to be revealed on Monday at the National Press Club.

Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine (OISM)
Who: Dr. Arthur Robinson of the OISM
What: release of names in OISM "Petition Project"
When: 10 AM, Monday May 19

A friend of June
New York court rules paper money unfir to the blind - so what is the answer - E cash comes to mind -

Those interpreting biblical preditions might find this Catholic interpretation interesting.

Very strange that Paul Weyrich is promoting Medjugorge in a Townhall column today.

Anyone know of a Buddhist timeline?
Constance LOOK-some good news -VeriChip:
VeriChip & Xmark - BIG NEWS!

I wonder if this is a victory?! Time will tell.

Implantable RFID Business 'Not Self-Sustainable'
I am preparing to speak at Congregation Sar Shalom in Mansfield, Ohio, this coming weekend. I believe they have a website if you need further details. It would be nice to see and meet some of you there!

Some questions you can ask of them when you go there.

How to develop a fund raising machine in a short period of time.

Why does Pat Robertson like the group.

Does the blending of Judaism and Christianity supercede the Christian religion based on the Robertson article?
Anon 3:03 could you please use for long links? I can't access either of the links that you provided.

There you go Dawn. Happy to help.
Don't know much about them -- but I don't give theological tests of purity when offered a platform -- I take the time the Lord made available to me, present my case and then leave. Their rabbi/pastor definitely did have knowledge of key events and honestly wanted to inform his congregation.

I did a very long article, published both here and on about the carbon exchange proposals. Here are links:
Interesting supporter of Obama. Interesting connections to AoC, Alliance for New Humanity, etc. Very articulate.

Wish I could hear you in Ohio, Constance, but we won't be in the area. Please let us know how it goes.

Thanks for filling in some gaps on some of those characters.

To those reading in Western WA State. ( I know there are a few of you out there)

Take a few minutes to review the proposed merger of Puget Sound Energy with an investment group from Canada, Australia-

It appears that the company with the majority share in the upcoming privitization of PSE will be Macquarie.

Macquarie partnered with Cintra to take control of the Chicago skyway leasing, and per their website are purchasing vast amounts of infrastructure around the country. Including power grids, banks, airports, etc.

There is an opportunity to speak in June at the public meeting in olympia- or you may write or email the Utilities commission.

Dennis Cuddy wrote an interesting article about Macquarie's involvement in "corporate slavery".
at NWV.

It is interesting to tie Macquarie back to Cintra which is a subsidiary of Grupo ferrovial, of Madrid, Spain.

interesting info on Jerusalem which is attached to Dennis Cuddy's article:

article by Dennis Cuddy:

If you read page one of International herald tribune today (quickly) because the links go away

...there are 4 interesting articles:

1. Sarkozy and the EU mediterranean union
2. Orthodox Jews burn Messianic New Testaments
3. When faith and culture collide
4 Mecca and moderation

The juxtaposition of these 4 articles on the same front page is interesting. AoC's agenda to influence the media seems to be in full force.

The cover story in Jerusalem Post was that Russia is supplying Syria with advanced strategic weapons.

....and as mentioned in the link above, the Temple Institute has told Bush they want to build the 3rd temple, on the occasion of israel's 60 anniversary.

We live in interesting days...

Well at least those Orthodox Jewish
students aren't lukewarm.
But then neither are the Christian
Missionaries who distributed the

Was it accurate of the article to
say that the Messianic believers
were "also known as Jews For Jesus"?

OK, I'm sorry, I even googled this first, but I have to ask: What does AoC stand for?

And I'm going to copy this from the Jerusalem Academy comments, as I think it's more relevant here:

Just an interesting little thing I noticed...I've seen how new age loves their little slogans and code phrases, and I think certain words and phrases can trigger people who have been unknowingly conditioned and hypnotized. I commented previously on how the Jerusalem Academy document mentioned Ghandi's "be the change" phrase and how Oprah was stressing that during her last Tolle webinar. Well, I also noticed that that phrase is connected to Barack Obama. Google obama, "be the change" and see what you come up with. A variation of this phraseology is catching on in Britain as well, apparently:

I also remembered that Marianne Williamson has a book out (which I have) called "The Gift of Change".

Speaking of Marianne Williamson...Joyce, I looked at that Mystery School website and it jogged a memory for me. I think a few years back Marianne Williamson had been planning to be on the faculty there. I don't know if she ever did follow through on that or if she changed her plans. There is no longer a mention of it on her website, which I also haven't looked at for a few years. I don't know if she changed her mind about joining the Mystery School around the time she decided to leave Hay House Radio to go over to Oprah's group on XM Satellite.

Joyce, you are a wealth of interesting information. I am looking forward to sitting down later today (hopefully)and spending more time perusing the links you've provided.

And what's going on within Christianity...lots of talk of "change agents" here:

The Alliance of Civilizations is
a United Nation project.
It sounds like a good idea until
you dig into it a bit and discover
that it's full of occult superstition
and symbolism and is most
definitely anti Christian.

No, it's not accurate at all to say that 10,000 Jews are from Jews for Jesus in Israel. The Messianics over in Israel are quite diverse. Some are Torah observant, some are not. There's quite a range of people and organizations represented there. In the Jerusalem Post article, I think they referred to them as Christians. A lot of Messianics would be offended by this because they are Jews who believe in their Messiah and do not consider themselves as having "converted to a new religion". Jews for Jesus is a big organization, but it's only one among many.

Lynn, sorry about the abbreviation. Yes the Alliance of Civilizations, AoC was set up by the UN to counter the "Clash of Civilizations" which was a Samuel Huntington book put out by the Council on Foreign Relations. It is spear headed by the Europeans and ties in nicely to the whole EuroMed Partnership and Barcelona Process. Bjorn Farmer writes quite a bit on this and so does Holly Pivic on Fulfilled Prophecy and also Rich Medford and Wiccus and others. These are all links you'll find on Constance's blog.

Because of something I was involved with, I began to study all of this and stumbled on these blogs. I also have a dear friend who I exchange info with and she's very knowledgeable about the Emerging Church.

The Middle East is of particular interest because of my Jewish heritage and because of my Biblical heritage. I think most of us on these blogs watch the news, read the prophecies and see things starting to unfold.

It's helpful to understand what's behind all of this. When we look at someone like Hitler and how he was able to influence so many, I think we realize "it can happen again" but maybe this time not just to Jews but to anyone who wants to affirm Scripture.

Berit Kjos is a good resource too. There's a number of people out there seeing the same things from different perspectives.

Just FYI
Joyce do you think sincere Christian believers should keep New Age literature that is pagan and occult around their house to study it? I know of many Christians who burned or gave away occult material when they converted. If you think they should have kept it, can you tell me why.
Anonymous 10:59

I can't help but think your question is meant to be a trap.

Some sincere believers should rid their homes of occult objects, not that the objects have any power in and of itself, but because it is a temptation.

Those who are called into studying the new age for exposing it will acquire what is needed to study.
It's not a trap. It's a question. Knowledgeable Jews and Christians consider New Age another religion.

Academic study is different. It assumes a detachment from the subject and a knowledgeable position taken toward the subject in advance of the study. It also assumes the studier is not a minor.

To make it more specific. Should every Baptist community be required to receive Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormon missionary Bibles by the hundreds in their communities without concern or complaint?
to Anonymous 10:59,

I am in agreement with the anonymous person who wrote below. People who are doing valuable research like Constance need to understand these things to expose them for what they are. I don't personally recommend that people run out and buy occult literature and keep it in their home. I also believe that those who have a special calling like Constance and other friends of mine exercise a great deal of caution and are not presumptuous about handling these materials. They understand the evil nature of what it is an handle it accordingly.

For people who have dabbled heavily in the occult, I personally don't think it would be prudent for them to own such materials because the familiar spirits associated with the materials could draw them in. I have worked with people who have this kind of exposure to occultism and would never recommend that they keep this around because Satan, the father of lies knows all of our weaknesses, and might prey on them.

I do not spend that much time doing in depth research on the occult, but am familiar enough with it to have a healthy respect. God of course is more powerful than all of this evil, but God expects us as believers to use wisdom. For someone who previously practiced sorcery or demonic channeling, burning the materials might be a very good idea.

Personally, I have limited my exposure to this kind of material, not because I have practiced occultism but because I am more interested in the aspect of helping people get free from demonic oppression, so I make it my business to know enough to recognize what kind of deception there is but my personal interest is in seeing believers know their "new identity" in Messiah Yeshua. I have watched people make a decision to follow Yeshua who have so much baggage and unless they are able to repent, renounce and confess it and walk in truth they usually suffer a lot.

I really appreciate people like Constance and my other friends who do the hard research so that they can expose this darkness. I do believe it's important. This is what makes the body of Messiah. Different people have different callings, but we are all working towards similar goals, just from different perspectives.

Sorry, it was a long answer, but I didn't want to give a simple answer to a complex subject.

Blessings in Yeshua,
Joyce, the original question asked is there a parallel between the Orthodox Jewish response to Messianic Christian literature and the Christian community response to New Age literature, i.e., the need for a community to separate quickly from religious material that is in opposition to their basic beliefs but has been deliberately intruded into their community.
"Joyce do you think sincere Christian believers should keep New Age literature that is pagan and occult around their house to study it? I know of many Christians who burned or gave away occult material when they converted. If you think they should have kept it, can you tell me why.

10:59 AM"

Here's your original question. I think I answered it.
Occult books...bad.

And there's nothing wrong with a good old fashioned book burning every now and then (just contact your local fire marshall before hand, if required)...

“Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.” (Acts 19:19)

Bro. Jeff
Joyce, Sorry I overestimated your grasp of larger ideas. You posted the link to a story about the Orthodox Jewish community response to hundreds of Christian Bibles pushed into their neighborhood and a connection to the AOC. I thought you would see the parallel when I asked the question. I didn't want to assume you feel it is justified for any true believers to push their beliefs in any way possible. That would so opens the door for any cults and New Age groups to use whatever means possible and to feel offended when they faced opposition.
David was on the other night and he is good, you can watch it on line.

Solana making visit to Iran today's news.

Zbig wants war so Obama could to. Will Hillary take V.P.? She was/is Bilderberg pick, I guess Obama has more juju.

Veri-Chip debt was/is held by IBM and China.

IBM helped Hitler number the Jews.

Rumor was IBM was using them as a front. I know IBM tried to collect on their debt and take them over but Digital Angel managed to win that one awhile back.

With invisible ink on skin that can be read and computers that can hold every one's information a chip really isn't necessary. If readers are everywhere they can trace or track you easily.

You have to eat and work plus readers could be on light poles.

Plans are to have GPS in every car and track the car for tolls etc. You will not drive more than your allowance and you will be charged per mile driven also.

Check out Goldman Sachs as they are putting the selling of toll roads, water plants, electrical etc. to foreigners or Sovereign Funds packages together.

Our Sec. of the Treasury Paulson (who made $40 million now makes $180. per year) is former Goldman Sachs and he's helping to give more power over banking to the Federal Reserve. Google: "Plunge Protection Team" and weep.

I read that Goldman is one of the banks in the Fed. ?

Adieu (old French: I commend you to God)

To understand the genesis of the Trilateral Commission, read the transcript of the 1979 radio show between Antony C. Sutton, Patrick M. Wood and George S. Franklin, Jr. -- Coordinator of the Trilateral Commission!


Isn't Sutton a NA?

Joyce, it appears that another hound has found baiting you with another inane question a hobby; sure hope you have learned to ignore it.
You have been blessing me greatly.
Anonymous 5:11,

If you've been reading for a while, you'll see this blog has, in the past, a bit of trouble with arguments devolving into personal attacks. We can keep a pleasant atmosphere for all if we refrain from unkind remarks. Points can be made without unnecessarily questioning another's intellect.
Bilderberg list of attendees.

Reed of the Christian Coalition attended.

Scroll down for more current list.


I found myself following another train of thought after reading Constance's latest article. Although political differences, including Right to Life issues, will always keep me from supporting Hillary Clinton, I am still thankful for Hillary’s sake, that at least two of her New Age friends and former advisors have focused their spiritual energies in another direction. For me, I am not surprised to read in Marianne Williamson’s on line journal why Barack Obama rather than Hillary has her support. Houston and Williamson are
obviously not merely speaking about a Helen Reddy 70’s style of feminism as what they find lacking in Hillary. Barack Obama more clearly embodies and embraces the spirit of this age, the same spirit influencing millions. The LA Times article, as I read it, may
reveal just the illusion of “abandonment “. These three could easily have decided to keep their respective distances for political as well as personal reasons. I found nothing to indicate they could not be clandestine friends. Hillary Clinton is what she is, that being, highly respected by friends and enemies alike, as, not only a brilliant woman, but also a very shrewd politician. As I read the LA Times article I conclude that Jean Houston may very well see Hillary as the one who did the politically advantageous “about face” following Bob Woodward’s book. Houston, (Pagan Priestess that she is) may be simply allowing the karmic "Threefold Law" as per the Wiccan Rede to complete its circle.
Hillary’s perfectly orchestrated appearance, (right down to her wearing of pink) with Bill O’Riley recently on FOX, was an example for me, as to what a master she is at what she does. I could hardly believe I was ALMOST liking her. A clear reminder for me of the
Subtleness of deceit. How evil men and women by their words are able to mesmerize millions. The spoken word is powerful, for evil or for good. ” Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God … “
1 John 4: 1 -Rudi

“For the ear tests words
as the tongue tastes food”
Job 34: 3

Marianne Williamson:
'Feminism in the Age of Now'
“…why I support Obama…”
For those of you who are Christians, here is an interesting article about Christianity and the Neo paganism that is growing:

I got this from Slice of Laodicea, where Ingrid links to it.

Whoa, Joyce! I just got around to taking a look at the link you gave earlier for The Mystery School
(New Chartres School,
Scariest Core Faculty list I've ever seen. Had you noticed, at the
very bottom right corner of the
New Chartres School main page the words, "Wisdom Home"? I had never looked at this main page for the "California" branch of the school. It's faculty "Chairs" and
"Adjunct Faculty" include an astounding number of recognizable
names. Under the "Prospectus" section, "It all began with Dr. Matthew Fox who, as a Dominican priest with a passion for the medieval mysticism of Meister Eckhardt and Hildegard of Bingen, established the Institute for Culture and Creation Spirituality at Mundelein College in Chicago in 1977." Whew! Lots of leads and documentation from the link you gave. Yikes! I mean, thanks Joyce. -Rudi
to anonymous 5:11. I guess I'll have to agree completely with the person who said:

"I can't help but think your question is meant to be a trap"

Don't want to jump to any conclusions about who this "anonymous" poster is, but the tone of the conversation sounds awfully familiar. I think you and I both know what I mean.

Some people write, and are straightforward about the information they give or the questions they ask, others do it because they have an agenda. You may want to do a little soul-searching and ask what your motive is for addressing me. Is it about me? or is it about you? Maybe I shared something that hit a chord?

Orthodox Jews who are committed to Orthodox Judaism should not worry about some Bibles, since they have their convictions. I as a believer in Yeshua am not threatened when a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness comes to my door or across my path. On the contrary, I look at it as an opportunity to share truth about Yeshua.

We should not live in fear of "infiltration" but rather, we should know our Bibles really well so we are prepared "in and out of season to give every man the reason for the hope within us". In my case that hope is Yeshua.

Your question about should "Christians" have occult literature, is totally unrelated to the incident with the Orthodox who burned Bibles with the renewed covenant in it. God promised to give Israel a newer covenant when He would place Torah on their hearts. This of course was through the death and resurrection of Yeshua and the indwelling of the Ruach HaKodesh, which allows Torah to be "on their hearts". On the contrary, many Jews today are believing in Yeshua and receiving this new birth. They do not become "Christians" but rather stay Jews who have recognized their Messiah and as such fulfill the prophecy of Jeremiah JUST TO NAME ONE OF MANY:

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Jer 31:31-33

Judah and the House of Israel broke the covenant, but God in His infinite wisdom and mercy already had a plan of salvation for them. Because of His holiness HE was bound by His Word to scatter Israel and punish them, He promised one day HE would bring them back and put Torah on their hearts. The Newer Covenant is that Yeshua, the ultimate High Priest shed His blood and cleansed our sins at the mercy seat in heaven, making His death a perfect sacrifice for sin. When He did this the veil in Jerusalem was torn in two, symbolizing that we now have direct access to the throne of God through His blood, so we do not need a Kohen HaGodal because Yeshua is one on the order of Melchizedek. Yeshua was both High Priest and King. When He did this then rose and ascended into heaven to be seated at the right hand of the Father, those that believed received the Ruach HaKodesh and are now the temple of the Living God.

If this was not true, the Jews would have a big problem because there is no Temple and no Levitical high priest who can perform the annual korban of Yom Kippur, so what would the Jews do to atone for their sin. The Rabbis say, pray, but is that what Torah says? ...little more food for you to think about. I think those Orthodox Jews who burned the Bible did THEMSELVES a disservice. They are the ones who lost out on knowing the truth. We just need to pray for them though.

Whoever you are, I'll be traveling again the next few days so if I don't answer, please don't be offended. I'll get back to you eventually. Please feel free to write your name....we have nothing to be afraid of here.

Hi Setterman,
You're a blessing too, but I didn't heed your warning....must be a glutton for punishment.

Deannie, very good article. Yes, the buzzword is the New Reformation. We really need to pray for the younger generation who are getting sucked in by the deception.

Rudi, thanks...need to do some more digging. There are always interesting connections. The article that Deannie sent mentions a community in the Italian mountains. That's Damanhur, they're referring to and when you start connecting dots from that to the Mystery School with Laszlo, Deepak Chopra and the usual list of shady characters you see the spider web of New Age.

As for the election, Hillary is not out yet..we may be in for some surprises. The whole joke of this is the people who really run the country will do what they want no matter who wins, so we get the "illusion" of choosing our next president, but do we really???

In today's Jerusalem Post Abbas was quoted as saying East Jerusalem must be returned. The other day he threatened to quit. Returned is a funny word because it assumes the land belonged to the Palestinians at one time. The Bible says that God gave this land to Israel. He kicked them out for disobedience, but said He would bring them back one day and establish a "newer covenant" with them, one that would stick. HE IS doing this in our day. Thousands and thousands of Jews are putting their faith in Yeshua. Maybe this is why the Orthodox got upset and burned Bibles.

We don't know how many from the House of Israel may already know Yeshua.. Remember the House of Israel, or the Northern Kingdom is in the nations and no one knows how many or who they are. God will reveal this one day and they will receive the land inheritance which He promised them, and the aliens will dwell among them in peace ( Ezekiel 48).

Shalom in Yeshua,
I missed one of your questions on the last blog about the Talmud and Quran. Was it from the pdf that was 209 pages? I'll try to find it and get back to you. Might take me a few days.
Joyce, believing something doesn't make it truth. Speaking positively doesn't turn a lie into truth. It may or may not be truth. You believe without hesitation that messianic christianity is truth, and all of your responses are based solely on that belief. Dialogue requires that both sides be open to other points of view. Where both sides are adamant that their beliefs are the only correct ones, there can only be unproductive arguments. Then it becomes will versus will.

Curbs have been put on absolute freedom of speech by reasonable leadership. Public censorship becomes necessary because too many humans are unable to exercise self-censorship. Too often the vulnerable are taken in by the manipulative, so there are laws to prevent that from happening. As you can see through history, manipulative tactics are most often used by those who are so sure of the absolute truth of their beliefs, whether about religion, politics, the environment or used cars, and who wish to recreate the utopia found in the Garden of Eden by forcing acceptance of their beliefs.

I'll not trouble you further.
Dear Anon. 11:01

So, help me out, you want to curb
Joyce's freedom of speech why ?

Dear Anon 11:01....whoever you are,

Yes, I believe you started the conversation. When someone asks me a question I answer it.

I do believe there is such a thing as absolute some circles we call this faith. I can't impose it on anyone because we are created in God's image with a free will. God doesn't force us to follow Him, so I am not silly enough to think I can "manipulate" anyone into following me, nor would I want to. If someone doesn't have a real "born again" experience, they will not see the Kingdom of God. I can't manufacture that for anyone and I'm well aware of this.

I will however pray that God would open the eyes of your understanding so you may know how high and how wide and how deep His love is for you, which was manifested by sending His Son, Yeshua, the Messiah.

Having said that we are all adults and vaccinated on this blog....As I recall the conversation started because I shared some news and my perspective on it. You are free to do that ...I won't try to stop you.

Shalom in Yeshua,
There is a technique that is used by many from school board members to communist party members. It's called Personalize the Issue to switch the discussion.

Here's an example. A Mom goes to the principle and says I'd like to discuss how the textbooks are being purchased in the school district. The principal says, "Why Mary, are you concerned tht little Johnny isn't learning what he should at the school? We care about him too." The spotlight is now on Johnny and his Mom rather than on the purchasing of textbooks.

Was someone discussing Joyce's freedom of speech?
I am very interested in your comments about the Northern Kingdom, Ephraim's double portion,etc. I am rereading a commentary on Hosea (the size of a concordance) from an OLD writer (Jeremiah Burroughs l600's). He has an eschatology you don't hear nowdays & discusses Daniel's lot from Dan 12:13 being part of the millenial reign. Very interesting. I am also interested in the daughter's of Zelophehad in Num 27. Do you have any insite on that?

Joyce, whoever you are, when everyone involved in an argument believes they know the full and sole truth, it becomes a battle of wills. I would thank you for your kind thoughts but for the fact that the discussion hasn't been personal and I'm not in need of nurturing.
Dear anon 12:20,
Whoever you are, you just
wrote Joyce's name.
Why do you, anonymous, of
all people, question who she is ?

But thanks for the lesson in sub-
version of people's intentions.

Where pesonal information is concerned, "Joyce" is just as informative as "Anonymoous."
Anonymous 11:01,

I disagree that dialogue requires people to be open to other points of view. That only matters if the purpose of the dialogue is to change another person's mind. Dialogue only requires people to listen politely, evaluate the other's arguments based on merit, and then to respond with their best argument. It becomes unproductive when people use various fallacies to divert the discussion since often these shut down further argument. These are often fallacies of relevance, think ad fontem, ad hominem, etc.
People can have very productive arguments and retain their original beliefs. It depends on how you are defining productive. If you mean that one person has to change their belief to the other, then I suppose it is unproductive. However, if productive means learning or gaining knowledge about another subject and or person, then people can retain their own beliefs and still have a productive dialogue. For example, neither my buddhist uncle nor I changed our beliefs after we argued. But I learned a lot about him and his life path and I thought it was very productive in that sense.

The answer to manipulative speech is not censorship but rather a better education. It's interesting that as our education system deteriorates, people need greater protection against verbal predators. We who follow Constance's work should see the connection between the two and who are the beneficiaries of such a weakened education system. Demagogues, such as Senator Obama and Al Gore, must love the fact that logic classes have been dropped from school curriculum. It makes their job that much easier.

"My principal problem with a quarrel is it ends a good argument." GK Chesterton.


Texas court ruled the seizure of children from Mormon ranch was illegal.

"If you read page one of International herald tribune today (quickly) because the links go away

...there are 4 interesting articles:

1. Sarkozy and the EU mediterranean union
2. Orthodox Jews burn Messianic New Testaments
3. When faith and culture collide
4 Mecca and moderation

The juxtaposition of these 4 articles on the same front page is interesting. AoC's agenda to influence the media seems to be in full force.

The cover story in Jerusalem Post was that Russia is supplying Syria with advanced strategic weapons.

....and as mentioned in the link above, the Temple Institute has told Bush they want to build the 3rd temple, on the occasion of israel's 60 anniversary.

We live in interesting days...


I am sorry, I am just learning. I guess I fail to see how all these things are connected. How do you see the AoC influencing these articles? I have a basic understanding of AoC. So I would just be interested in your thoughts on this.
Hi Dawn- This might help a little to see the AOC/Media influence. Joyce can answer specifically as it relates to her links. In a general sense, one of the major outcomes of the first of it's kind January 15-16 2008 AOC Madrid Forum, was the announcement of a multi-million dollar AOC Media Fund. " It will be a first-of-its-kind nonprofit large-scale media production company focused on normalizing images of stereotyped communities and minorities in mass media through partnerships with major Hollywood production, distribution, and talent management companies. The Fund was launched with an initial commitment of 10$ million, and an estimated target of $100 million."
Hope this helps a little. -Rudi


"Joyce" is much more informative than "anonymous" as anonymous means you can post as two or three different anonymous's, as you do, and Joyce has
told us tons of things about herself whereas you
simply take potshots at people and then run away, kind of like a cyber James Boyd Malvo.
There's no comparison between the name of a person who has made numerous comments and a person who is only there to be divisive and anonymous, thus your comment is a bald-faced lie.

Yours truly,
I'd love to get back to you on that. I'm sitting in an airport so I will, but there might be a delay. I'd be interested to hear more about the book your reading eventually.

Rudi hit the nail on the head. That's what I was alluding to.

Thanks for your remarks. I'm going to respond only to people who are willing to identify themselves in the future. It gets pretty childish to have these kind of conversations if you know what I mean..

Blessings to you all,
Joyce has chosen not to make public personal information that can be verified. That's just fine. It's what people who wish to remain anonymous do. It puts the focus on their opinions and research rather than on labels. Messianic Christianity as presented is her focus with a slight nod to research on New Age. She has made it clear that Messianic Christianity is a missionary effort targeted at Jews, a view acceptable to all those who wish to see Jews become Christians. What isn't clear is why Jews need to become Messianic Christians rather than Baptists or Episcopaleans or Catholics if Christianity is the perfection of thought. From what I've read, Messianic Christianity appeals mainly to Christians who like the idea of Judaism, kind of like Christians who have Passover services.

Sid Roth, a big name messianic, seems to be promoting the idea that Christianity can't be fulfilled until all Jews become Messianic Christians. I like the idea that Christians don't need Jews to be fulfilled.
OK Joyce. When I post I will call myself Sarah.
You can't see the biblical reason for anything because you don't believe the Bible.
You call Joyce a Messianic Christian over and over even though she has never referred to herself that way.
She is a Messianic Jew, so why do you keep trying to twist it ?
Your logic is right out of a college textbook, complete with atheism and Liberal Arts written all over it. What you think of as dispassionate academic detachment is just wishy washy and impotent to me.
Where does your anonymous religion of endless questions lead you ?

Paul, a rose by any other name.....
A tale of two quotes.

As I read this post of Anonymous 11:01 a.m.:

" Curbs have been put on absolute freedom of speech by reasonable leadership. Public censorship becomes necessary because too many humans are unable to exercise self-censorship. Too often the vulnerable are taken in by the manipulative, so there are laws to prevent that from happening. As you can see through history, manipulative tactics are most often used by those who are so sure of the absolute truth of their beliefs, whether about religion, politics, the environment or used cars, and who wish to recreate the utopia found in the Garden of Eden by forcing acceptance of their beliefs." Anonymous 11:01 a.m.

It reminded me of this quote:

"The Alliance of Civilizations aims to forge a collective political will to establish a paradigm of mutual respect between civilizations and cultures. The initiative will take into account the work done by the “Dialogue Among Civilizations” and other related programmes. The Alliance aims to launch a coalescing movement of the vast majority of peoples who do not identify themselves with extremism in various societies in order:
• To strengthen mutual understanding and respect in practical ways;
• To counter the influence of those who feed on exclusion and claim sole ownership of the truth;
• To counter, through such measures, the threat to world peace and stability that emanates from the trend toward extremism in societies;
• To promote awareness that security is indivisible and a vital need for all and that global cooperation is an indispensable prerequisite for both security and stability, as well as development; and
• To promote common values among different peoples, cultures and civilizations." 1.1. INITIATIVE BY THE PRESIDENT OF

A free market place of ideas is either free or it is not.

Truth is not reliant on ones perspective nor is it subservient to ones adequacy of presentation , or lack thereof. Truth is self existent.

Any effort to suppress free expression in a discussion of Truth is nothing less than idealogical tyranny.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is not a moose.

Dear Constance,

Whenever you are Dr Stan's radio show,I have to listen to you. The first time I heard you on his show was the summer of 2006.

Christians, myself included, are blessed to have you on our side and fighting this battle.

Have you ever heard of "Soaking Music"? I just learned of this on a radio program of Sid Roth's. It frightened me to think this music is out there. Please check this 'new age' music out when you have to, just type in soaking music and read about it. Sounds like the music takes peoples free will away.

God Bless Constance!!
I noticed at Herb Peters old site that two site moderators, "Abiding in His Word" and "Salty Skipper" were deleting posts indicating that God was ontologically masculine.

Isn't this New Age to have a feminine God?

And why does Herb Peter's old blog have this view!?
Good article, Constance! I will hazard a guess as to why Williamson and Houston withdrew their support from Hillary-

If my intuition is right -Hillary asked them to "tone it down" for her working class voters whose concerns don't resonate readily with either New Age or Feminist ideology...If she didn't ask them outright Hillary may have neglected to include them in a few of her juicy press junkets - the lifeblood of both ops and the spiritual guidance of leaders (or the appearance of same)...
Thats my guess - because Hillary is presents herself as a moderate who is willing to play by the rules of the old boys club when the stakes are high enough...

anyways - love your blog and always check for the latest view from your side of the playground...thanks for keeping this going...:)
HK, your post reminds me of the UN’s constitution, and I get the same unsettled feeling from it. I think the tipping point is to be found in the “love of money” and the persuasion of the Islamic world that they mean no harm to the West; of which the cultural shift of monism, material or spiritual, has become the bedrock. We can continue to see the “extremist” (those who have the TRUTH) to be made an example of. John Hagee is one. At least for the time being, he’ll keep his head.
A quote from today's Jerusalem Post:

"Red strings, holy water, talismans and other New Age Kabbalistic paraphernalia may seem like so much spiritual mumbo jumbo to some, but a growing number of university scholars are beginning to acknowledge modern expressions of Kabbalah."

Under normal circumstances we would not see Jews and Christians and Muslims joining forces, but what if the mystical elements of these three join forces? Just a thought.

Getting back to Charlotte:

The verses you quoted from in Numbers and Daniel are talking about tribal inheritance. God gave the tribes of Israel land according to the tribal divisions. In Ezekiel 48, which speaks of the Millennium, the will receive the land He promised with the specified borders. The daughters of Zelophehad comes from the root word Israel and echad which means one. Echad is the Hebrew word used in the shema "Hear O Israel the Lord is God, the Lord is One" It speaks of composite unity. ( Like Yeshua and the Father).

Both this story and the story in Daniel show us how God keeps His promise in spite of Israel's disobedience, He will bring Israel back to the land promised, by tribe, even if the representatives of the tribe are women they will not lose their inheritance.

The whole story of the 10 tribes who went into Assyrian exile and lose their identity, which is talked about in Hosea becomes very important because these tribes are in the nations and Judah does not recognize them. It's like Joseph when he was in Egypt and looked like an Egyptian. His brothers came and didn't know who he was.

Going back to "Sara" the anonymous comment about Sid Roth, who I don't know too much about, but I suspect he was referring to this verse:

For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, of this secret — that ye may not be wise in your own conceits — that hardness in part to Israel hath happened till the fulness of the nations may come in; and so all Israel shall be saved, according as it hath been written, ‘There shall come forth out of Sion he who is delivering, and he shall turn away impiety from Jacob, and this to them [is] the covenant from Me, when I may take away their sins.’ Romans 11:25-27

I used the Young's literal translation because it is the most accurate in terms of translating the world "ethnos" from the Greek, which means "nations" not Gentiles although some use the word interchangeably. Israel became literally "the fulness of the nations" through the Northern Kingdom's exile into Assyria and their subsequent scattering and assimilation. They lost not only their land because the Northern Kingdom never returned from exile, but their identity.

What I believe the verse means is that Israel ( scattered Ephraim/the House of Israel/Joseph) is out there in the nations. As the gospel goes out
( in the fulness of the nations-which is literally the promise that Jacob/Israel gave to Ephraim) ALL Israel will be saved. As Jews get saved and the nations get saved we have the beginning of the fulfillment of the 2 stick prophecy of Ezekiel 37, another words both houses will be saved and become ONE ( Echad) but not only that, they will receive the tribal territories that are promised in Eze 48. This is so important because today we only have "Jews" . Jews are not all Israel. All of the tribes represent the WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL, and as God promised they will receive their full inheritance.

For the sake of the blog, I'm trying to keep my answer brief. Hope that makes sense.
Blessings in Yeshua,
Could you post your name in the "Name URL" so it will be easier to find your posts.
Your posts are exceptionally interesting and informative!

I frequent here occasionally to stay informed and find only a few bloggers that I'd consider read-worthy.


You're the poet in my heart.

--Cautious Man
" Curbs have been put on absolute freedom of speech by reasonable leadership."

You have, I hope, heard of laws dealing with defamation, libel and slander. Misrepresentation brings many people to court. And that old standby - you can't yell Fire in a crowded theater come to mind.

"Public censorship becomes necessary because too many humans are unable to exercise self-censorship."

Laws are needed to regulate the life of a community. Live by yourself on an island and there is no need for law. Those following the ten or 613 commandments would exercise self-censorship. When religious communities are made weak and individuals feel less restraint, it leads to more regulation from the government.

"Too often the vulnerable are taken in by the manipulative, so there are laws to prevent that from happening."

Vulnerable people are those who know little in a given situation.
Whether its about a particular religion, the ways of cults, how used cars are sold, how dictatorships come about, how emotions are manipulated, the financial world depends on the situation.

Messianic Christians have targeted Soviet Jews who know very little about Judaism because they were not given the opportunity to learn the religion in the FSU. Most of the readers here are vulnerable when it coms to Judaism because they know very little about the religion. Those are two examples of vulnerability pertinent to this thread.

"As you can see through history, manipulative tactics are most often used by those who are so sure of the absolute truth of their beliefs, whether about religion, politics, the environment or used cars, and who wish to recreate the utopia found in the Garden of Eden by forcing acceptance of their beliefs."
Anonymous 11:01 a.m.

The AOC is very manipulative and may be successful because so few people know the history of the UN, the New Age movement or other religions. Manipulative people can be found in government, business, in religious organizations, on blogs, in one's family...anywhere. If they were easy to spot, no one would be taken in. Which is why, in the long run, there are curbs on absolute freedom of speech whether coming from religion or government.
Better from religious beliefs which lead to self-censorship. When religious teachings just become a recitation of historical facts or historical speculation, the potency of religion is lost.


the term Messianic Christian seems redundant. All Christians are Messianic. It would seem to me that the term Messianic would better describe a denomination of Judaism if you intend to differentiate between beliefs.

It would seem that all Orthodox Jews should be Messianic to some degree- as one of the tenets of their faith is in the coming of a Messiah, just which One is the question of the day.

It would be more helpful for those reading here, for you to describe which denomination of Judaism you believe in, (if I am correct you are a Jewish believer) so we may place your posts into context.

When I researched Judaism, there were many tenets of the faith described, but forcing Jewish believers to reject believing in Jesus was not among them.

Not afraid to sign my name,
What isn't clear is why Jews need to become Messianic Christians rather than Baptists or Episcopaleans or Catholics if Christianity is the perfection of thought. From what I've read, Messianic Christianity appeals mainly to Christians who like the idea of Judaism, kind of like Christians who have Passover services.

Sid Roth, a big name messianic, seems to be promoting the idea that Christianity can't be fulfilled until all Jews become Messianic Christians. I like the idea that Christians don't need Jews to be fulfilled.


I have taken the above from one of Sarah's post. Why are you focusing on her religion and drawing the focus away from the point she is making?

Sarah, it doesn't matter if you are a Jew, a Christian, or an Atheist. Your point is an extremely important one. Keep on writing sister.

--Cautious Man
Well, the reasonable arguments for the classic Christian position of an essentially masculine God have been deleted at

A feminine God, or a genderless forced is at the heart of the New Age. Right?
"Messianic Christian" is a redundancy.
It's a term that no one uses, that I know of.
It must be the product of someone one who hasn't
given the subjects of Messiach OR Christianity.
It's like saying "Christian believer in Jesus"
All Christians are Messianic. Jesus is the Messiah.
The word "Christian" did come later. It's a Greek word.

meant to say...' haven't give the subject much thought".

but the word 'Messiah" goes to the original Hebrew.
And the word Hebrew is a word that includes both Judeans and Israelites; that is, descendants of Israel,
who was Jacob, whom God loved.

the word "Hebrew" means "One who contends, or
'wrestles' with God", as Jacob did on the very spot which Moslems and Jews are contending and wrestling
over right now and which the Alliance of Civilizations
thinks they have a newer, deeper, more rational approach to sharing, which they don't.

I have come to realize that the Iraq war was not about oil, terrorism or the booting out of Sadaam Hussein (who claimed to be the next Nebuchadnezzar) who was in the process of rebuilding Babylon.
It is going to be the new seat of power, headquarters so to speak. Now read Revelation 17
Hi Sarah,

I apologize in advance for the length of the following.

I’ve been lurking around for a while and find some of the discussion has been sidetracked by a misunderstanding of terms and how they are/have been used. Much of the discussion has been unfruitful because of this. I am not going to try to sway anybody’s opinion but to provide a little clarity to the foundation of at least one side of the discussion.

My name is Steve. I am real. If you would like to know more about me, I have a blog that is primarily a journal of my training and meet results with some personal thought and comment thrown in on the fly. I assure you Joyce is also a real person and can be approached on a personal level via e mail.

I am a Bible believing Christian. Many terms have been used and hijacked and misinterpreted into a chaotic mess that is no longer truly descriptive. I am born again as per what is written in John 3. I hesitate to use the term, though accurate because of the misuse by many. I grew up in a Baptist church. And though when younger I was a member, “Baptist” is a denomination and is descriptive to a degree for some doctrinal issues but for those Baptists that are “born again” Christian is more appropriate.

Shortly before my 40th b-day I found out that what I had been told about my lineage was a lie and that I actually am largely of Hebrew heritage. Though some would say I was Jewish, others would say that I wasn’t practicing and claimed to be a Christian therefore I could not be Jewish. How ever blood is blood. I found that many that grew up as practicing Jews and then came to a Faith in Jesus/Yeshua do not use the term Christian to describe themselves because of the horrific things done to Jews throughout history under the “Christian” banner. So with my brothers and sisters in faith that grew up with knowledge of their jewishness and now worship Yeshua as the creator and sacrifice for salvation, I hesitate to use the word Christian.

In a broad sense the term Messianic Jew means that this person is a believer in Yeshua however there are other groups that use the term for their own purposes that don’t line up with the main group. Confusing to be sure.

Living in UT one can’t go out one’s front door without tripping over a Mormon. (Side note: The Texas debacle was not with the LDS or Mormon church. It was/is with the FLDS, an off shoot that carries many of the same beliefs but is far different in other beliefs). The LDS church and those with orthodox Christian beliefs use many of the same terms with drastically different meanings. To have a meaningful discussion at all there needs to be a discussion of terms in advance.

It is my contention that you need to have a sidebar with Joyce in order to understand each other’s definitions and meanings for terms before much real dialogue and understanding can take place. I suggest an exchange of emails for this clarification. That is of course if an exchange of real thought is desired.

Part 2 Objective Truth: Confidence or Arrogance?

I have taken a strong stance on the truth and veracity of the Bible and also been accused of gross arrogance. Confidence is not arrogance. Confidence in the Bible and it’s promises is not blind faith. On the contrary, the Bible calls out in many places to look and see. Test, do not accept blindly. Both old and new Testaments have many passages that call for informed choices.

To deny the existence of an Objective Truth and to claim that all things are only relative, in and of itself defeats the notion that ALL things are relative because it can’t be objectively true that all things are relative.

A checking account has a specific balance at a specific time at a specific institution because of specific deposits and withdrawals within the specific rules of that institution. The balance at that time is objectively true.

There are many thoughts regarding the origins and purpose of the universe. Many of these proposals are at odds with each other and when compared side by side help to show that not all roads lead to the same place. Compare Buddhism, Quranic Islam, Hinduism and orthodox Biblical Christian beliefs and one will see that as they all claim truth the differences speak volumes as to how not all can be true. Though there are many ideas as to our origin and purpose, the truth is it only happened one way for one purpose. This is where the debate truly starts.

The Bible is a very unique book compiled in a very unique fashion. It is over a third prophecy and the fulfillment of the prophecies can be validated through scripture as well as secular means. I believe (as Joyce and others do) that the Bible IS the Word of God from God and is accurate and complete in the original writings. There are enough original language copies around (Dead Sea Scrolls et al) that confirm that though some punctuation and grammar may have been altered over time, doctrinal points have remained in tact. I have confidence the Bible speaks the Truth. It’s not my truth. I have done nothing to create it or deserve it. I have no reason to be arrogant for anything but I have every reason to be confident to the death in the Bible and what is taught in it.

For those that have placed their faith in the God of the Bible, they are confidant not arrogant. On lighter vein, I can’t call a plaid shirt a polka dot dress. Both are patterns and pieces of clothing but they are not the same thing. Calling out that truth is not arrogant. No person is better than another. We all need the saving love of the Creator.

Sarah, I ask you to re read Joyce’s posts and then post with her privately and ask her why her confidence is that high. I guarantee you that she does not see this as a battle of her will vs. your will. It’s not her argument to win or lose. She has nothing to be arrogant for but she does have an eternity of confidence. Please write to her.

This blog is getting tedious with all the personal sniping. With that being said, let's referrence the article in the LA Times and glean a few more facts. Houston has not dumped Hillary; Hillary dumped Houston when Bob Woodward outed Camp David Wackygate with Houston and Mary Catherine Bateson, the buzz about Hillary got intense. Bateson is the daughter of Margaret Mead and Gregory Bateson, noted NAger of Esalen fame who helped establish many prominent NA nostroms. MCB was a good friend of Hillary. Hillary said Bateson's writings were some of the most influential in her thinking. When Wackygate broke, the press was after Houston and Jean, ever ready to hold forth with her nonsense, obliged. Needless to say, the Clinton White House asked her to can it. Houston pretty much wrote It Takes a Village for Hillary, giving the Clintons a hefty tax deduction on their taxes (they needed money and cutting their tax liability was an easy way to find some) as well as establishing a NA text on family and parenting.Has Hillary moved away from these ideas? NO but she doesn't want wackygate to resurface. Research the Renaissance Weekend stuff on Hillary and the New Age friends she made there and you find another source of influence. The Clintons have always held there political finger to the wind and dumped those who caused any ill wind to blow. That is why they have lost the Party. Howard Dean wrote the rules who set her on her path to failure. Wake up. It has only just begun. Goodby Hillary-hello Obama. The New Agers have found a better horse to ride.
Anonymous 3:54,

Are you implying that Babylon will be rebuilt? I was going down that same path last week until I happened across Isaiah 13:19-20, which reads:

19And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

I think there is also a passage in Jeremiah, similar to this one. I've not yet studied it.

I will say, I thought I was on to something big, thinking that Mr. Bush and the Allied forces were stopping the rebuilding of Babylon (the ancient city of Babel) because it was not yet time.

It makes sense that Satan would choose that location for his throne. After all, it is from Babel that all abominations of the earth were born (Gen11:1-9 with Rev17:5).

Here's one for you (or anyone): are the seven heads/mountains of the first beast (Rev13:1,Rev 17:9) contained in the same period of history? If the mountains are periods of time for which the beast has had power, then the great whore has been riding the beast for thousands of years. The great whore is a city (Rev17:18), I'm not disputing that, but she is also a prostitute religion (Rev17:5).

Both Babylon and Egypt have deep symbolic meaning to Israel. They both represent backsliding to paganism.
They both represent falling away from the true faith
in JHVH. They were warned over and over not to return to those places for any reason. To return to either place is to return to slavery and to lose Gods' grace and protection.
They were THE nation on earth that was to have faith
in God alone and never to look for help from Pharoh
or the wicked pagan witchcraft Babylon.

Babylon as a city is buried under the sand and won't be rising again. It's the symbolic meaning of Babylon: magic, witchcraft, Baal, Astarte, and all the other things that we see in the New Age, which is anything BUT new.

To all:

I had a long day traveling and a few frustrations packing and worthless wondering about things I can't find now that I am here in Mansfield, Ohio where I speak at 10:30 later this morning.

So many of the posts are excellent. I just finished reading Steve's which is exceptional in my opinion. I found one of Jean Houston's old books today, "In Search of the Beloved." It has been out for many years -- a how to get possessed manual if there ever has been one.

Jean Houston said Hillary Clinton ruined her reputation. I would say that Jean Houston more than did it to herself!

Steve...I see you have a potential convert as a result of your post. Not me but Constance. May her and Joyce's conversations along this line be fruitful.
The idea that global sized storms and earthquakes are man made is just more self worship from atheistic
Goreites who have slowly but surely taken over real journalism, education, the media, and even medicine.
But man is not the measure of all things, even though he's been given free reign to create out of his godlike imagination. ( Gen. 11:6 )
It's God that the world really needs to worry about.

This question is directed to anyone who might be able to help,

I know there are many people here with a great deal of expertise on the subject's of new age practices, including that of "the secret" and the teachings that Oprah has been broadcasting over the radio…

Just recently I found out that a friend of my family has become pretty heavily involved in the these teachings, as he was caught in the act of performing breathing exercises and chanting things like “I fully accept its power” or something to that effect.

My question is, does anyone have any suggestions as to how to effectively combat this spirit of deception that he is now involved in (on top of prayer of course)?

Your advice would be greatly appreciated

Nick, in B.C.
Steve Fredine:

It appears Sarah has already read Joyce's posts with considerable thought and care and concluded that she doesn't respect her methodology or the character revealed by it.

One man's "confidence" is another man's arrogance.

--Cautious Man
Cautious Man,
That's quite an assumtion regarding
Sarah's opinion.
Sounds like it's your own opinion.


Maybe you are right and I am making too many assumptions here. Sarah may come back at some point and confirm whether or not I am correct.

Until then, I remain opinionatedly but not omniscently yours,

--Cautious Man
Anonymous 4:41 posted some very interesting new information on the Hillary situation. Thanks.

Nick, find out who he is reading or what group he belongs to. Search on the net or ask for more information here.

Paul, Steve is good looking but too old and married for me to be interested in checking out his religion. If I'm going to be love bombed, I want it to be by some young, rich, single, good-looking dude. Other than that...ferget it!

Dear Cautious Man,

In writing on a forum such as this blog it is tough to know every personality trait or writing nuance within exchanges of posts without a deeper knowledge of the writer and the writer‘s foundation for their personal opinions. Most that post on Constance’s blog have a strong sense of where they are coming from in these discussions.

In reading some of the posts back and forth it seemed clear that there was disagreement with some of Joyce’s positions but sometimes from a more personal rather than positional sense. I could be way off on this. My post was not intended to sway anyone’s position, rather it was an urging toward better, informed dialogue. Real communication re the topic at hand could be improved through better understanding of the positions/backgrounds of the other party as opposed to making assumptions regarding the person. It’s ok to agree to disagree about an issue and still appreciate the person with whom you disagree.

I wrote my post as an invitation to Sarah so that if her intent had anything to do with dialogue with better understanding of the alternate position that she could contact Joyce and get some clarification. Of course she is capable of doing this on her own if it came to mind. If she doesn’t want to know anything further or is satisfied with the status quo then the invitation is moot if not sincere.

Re confidence, the confidence I expressed is about nothing I have achieved or created. It is a confidence I have been given in spite of myself. This confidence is not for a select club or organization but it is free to all mankind. My confidence has nothing to do with me at all. Truly, I do not deserve it.


PS If you would like to discuss anything further I can be reached @

PPS lol Sarah. Yes old and married. Fooled you on the other one though, kept the picture real small on purpose...

I agree with your assessment of Anonymous 4:41's info.

If you are still out there 441, what do you think the Dems plan to get from Barack Hussain Obama that they couldn't get from Hillary?

--Cautious Man
Hitler was fully engulfed in the occult; when the Devil is finished with “you”, “you are discarded.
You called for help?
Love this person unconditionally. Insist on nothing more than Christ and Him crucified as a substitution for our imperfection. (God is perfect)
Nick, trust the Holy Spirit to work on God’s Word in this person’s life.
2 Corinthians 4:4-6
“In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Many of us were in the same situation.
If you were to check the archives, you would see names like Oldmanoftheshi, Mac, and others.
Let this person know that this site is not only for information, but for reconciliation.
Many of us have listed our e-mails, and we are at your service.
Hi Nick,

It's hard to know what to do without knowing exactly what your friend is involved with, or your friend's background. Different lines of discussion will affect each individual in different ways, depending on that person's personality, background, and tendencies.

What I found helpful for myself was doing a lot of research online. I live in a fairly isolated area, so the internet is my best access to information. Whatever your friend is involved in, there will be information about it out there somewhere, and it's important that your friend know the truth about it.

The Rick Ross website has a lot of information about many "cults", including the New Age ones. The message boards are very helpful, populated by many ex-members of various cults and they are very informative and supportive. If you go to, you'll find the main home page with links there to information archives, news stories, and the message boards. On the message boards, found at,
there are threads about The Secret (under the "Large Group Awareness Training, 'Human Potential'" Listing), for example. You may have to go back a page or 2, I don't think that thread has been active for a while, but it's a great thread. The multilevel marketing listing has a thread there about the Hay House Empire and Abraham-Hicks. The top listing, "Cults, Sects, and New Religious Movements" has good threads there, including some active threads about Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie, and more. The Celebrities section has a current thread going on about Oprah. There's a search function on that website, you'll probably find a lot of information there.

When I was on my way out...well I left New Age via an atheist path, but I think at the point I was at, that was the only way to break New Age's hold on me. It got me to think for myself again. Because believe you me, one of the first things New Age and the one(s) behind it do is get you to give up your ability to think and to reason and to ask intelligent questions...

I had a few favorite blogs that I read. A couple of them were

Connie has a rather snarky sense of humor, so I'll throw in a language and adult content warning for this one...But she debunks a lot of stuff. Unfortunately, I see her being a bit too soft on some 'new age' so called gurus and teachers recently. She describes herself as agnostic...maybe that's a hazard of fence sitting, you might just land on the wrong side of it. Anyway, the archives have a lot of good info about The Secret, Abraham Hicks, and others.


The author of the above blog is an author and a journalist. I don't know where he stands spiritually, although his wife seems to like Joel Osteen. Salerno (the author of the blog) is less than impressed with Osteen, which I see as being a good thing! :-)

I guess the approach I would take is to present the truth, but be careful you don't put your friend in a position where he or she feels he must put a lot of energy into defending his new found activities and beliefs. If he is newly into something, he's no doubt getting some kind of rush out of it right now, and if you get him into defensive mode, he'll only become more entrenched. And as a friend, you'll get tossed for being 'too negative'.

Something else these outfits do is to encourage people not to watch news stories or read papers or even watch media at all because of the 'negative energy'. Your friend will also be encouraged to stay away from 'negative' people and to find more like-minded people to spend time with. People in new age tend to lose their empathy and compassion for others, what with the 'it's their fault for attracting it' mentality. Try to keep your friend involved with normal, everyday activities as much as you can. Help your friend to see that the rest of us ain't so bad after all. :-) Involve him or her in day to day life.

And Google is a wonderful thing--research, research, research.

Best of luck to you...And yes, pray for help, pray for the right words to come.

Hehe, I keep previewing this and thinking of something else...

I came across this website, and I think it's already been mentioned here...But there are a lot of good Christian websites with information about what your friend may be getting involved with, and I really like this one:

OK, I'm going to stop and actually post this thing now. :-) And maybe let someone else say something, too. ;-)

Steve Fredine,

Fair enough, and thanks for the clarification and cheerful invitation. I may take you up on it.

Regarding "Confidence" didn't a guy standing on a hill say something important one time about the poor in spirit and the meek? LOL

--Cautious Man
Hi Everyone, As some of you may already know, I'm not in the US, so I'm not at all 'up' on the Oprah and Eckhart stuff. I have however been wondering 'how' or 'what' this online/media led movement might be doing to further 'disciple' it's participants when the courses end. I'm wondering if maybe the following might be linked in with it???

The new Global Shift University (from one of the links on Ervin Lazslo's site) opens fall 2009 and is running some recruitment/awareness stuff just now. This online, to yet open, university, has some very interesting Founders; Ervin Lazslo, Dr. A. Harris Stone, Rick Newberger and William (Bill) Gladstone.

Quote, "Mr. Gladstone has agented many bestselling books related to the core mission of The Institute, including Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth."

The organizers;

The promo videos;

Any thoughts anyone?


I thought the term "New Age" was from the magazine of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, which was called "The New Age" and can be viewed here.

Given that the magazine was published under that name as early as 1904, it pre-dates any other references to a "New Age" that I'm familiar with.

In other words...while the person who thought that the term "New Age" came from the (modern)magazine of the same name was incorrect, weren't they inadvertantly correct?
Hello K,

Oprah has plans for her followers for the summer: summer Tolle sessions starting June 16.

During her last webinar, I think she mentioned something about starting up again in the fall as well with the Tolle teachings.

She also has "Soul Series" XM radio interviews with various people, airing on Mondays. A listing of upcoming guests:

So that ought to keep up the momentum and the 'craving' for a while. I wonder when she's going to incorporate Lazslo into it?

Thanks for the information.

I am constantly surprised by the connections and the extent of this whole 'new age' network.
The New Age isn't new:
paganism, astrology, witchcraft. sorcery,
these are a few of our favorite things.
When the dog bites
When the bee stings
When I'm feeling sad_
I simply remember my favorite things,
And then I don't feel so bad.

Dear Setterman and Lynn,

Thank you both for your support and input, I’m well aware that this will be no easy battle as it is very true Lynn what you said about the way that people lose their ability to think rationally or listen to reason. I will continue to pray and look into the links that you have provided and of course make use of the strongest resource available—God's Word!

Thanks again

Western cultural hatred has been mentioned before on Constance’s blog spot. I would like to mention it again. The self loathing that gives some impetus to those in American society,who gravitate toward the nihilistic trend dejour; the one we’ve heard so much about since 9/11 is illegal immigration (undocumented workers). The rule of law be dam-d. I’m kind of a news nerd, but I hadn’t picked up on the immigrants in South Africa, of whom “at least 42 have been killed, more than 500 arrested and 16,000 displaced . . .” That’s the Western press for you.If that had happened in Texas!
See American thinker:
Very funny Jim

I had a couple friends over last night to watch the
Celtics beat up the Pistons.
I was showing them this blog and they must have posted that last one when I was out of the room.

Dear "Cautious Man"

Yes, it is very important to find out "which group you belong to" in order for you to survive on this blog.

Dear CM,

"Regarding "Confidence" didn't a guy standing on a hill say something important one time about the poor in spirit and the meek? LOL"

Yuppers that is the Man.

Same Man told His crew to buy swords another time and turned over money tables and created general chaos at the temple. Same Man made mud out of dirt and spit to heal a blind guy.

Same Guy made very large promises and keeps them.

All of those things need to be held in the context of the full picture.

It's this Guy that is the source of my confidence.


PS Seriously/cheerfully, drop a dime if so inclined about any off topic issue you'd like to talk about.
Anonymous 1028,

For someone who still has nightmares about high school this is starting to bring back very bad memories. LOL!

--Cautious Man
Have any of you been following the story about this 'Lakeland outpouring' thing?

They are now claiming to have raised 13 people from the dead.

Yup, I heard it myself from their service this morning, I am not making this up. 13 people. I haven't seen that in writing, but I HEARD them say it this morning.

This case was actually on our national TV news yesterday, although I cannot find any independent (unbiased) coverage of it today.

And an interesting article I came upon via a link from the Monday, May 19th portion of
And from an atheist who is one of the most fierce anti-new agers I have ever read...(Language and content warning for this blog, but the guy has been seriously personally hurt by his ex-wife's new age practices and he's rather bitter, angry, often a misogynist...but when I was reading atheist materials and blogs, he was one of the few atheists who wasn't too busy picking on Christians to see where the real danger lies):
Oops, there we go, should have looked at

And a snippet on global warming,also from

In the meantime, I'm catching what-for from the clerks at the local grocery store who figure I should buy their re-usable canvas bags rather than use the plastic bags. I explained that I have small pets in my house and I need the bags to dispose of their wastes, so if I wasn't using and recycling the plastic grocery bags, I would be BUYING bags anyway. Well, that was sort of OK with them, since the plastic grocery bags were made of recycled plastic
I noticed the FoxNews story didn't mention the Lakeland connection to this woman coming back from the dead. But of course the Lakeland people are talking it up.

(This is a link I already mentioned.)
Included in last weeks “General Assembly Thematic Debate on Human Security ”, was the keynote address given by HRH Prince El Hassan bin Talal . The highlight of the HRH address, as well as the press conference that followed,was to make a formal introduction on behalf of the Global Commons (Global Marshall Plan). The title of his speech was, “Dignity and Justice for All of Us: Human Security on the Global Commons”. HRH uses the recent devastating earthquake in China and cyclone-ravaged population of Myanmar to enlarge the “framework” through which the focus of “human security” should be viewed. He goes on to show, in simplistic terms, how the imbalances found between nations, coupled by the interconnectedness of global conditions, (population, food supply and rising demand, climate extremes, cultural conflicts, etc.) are the causes of either widespread security, or instability across the world. ( UN HRH Speech)

(UN General Assembly:Home)

Were it only so simple.
The Global Marshall Plan, its partnering organizations, as well as it’s individual supporters are overwhelmingly made up of those who envision the complete transformation of society from it’s current form into an entirely
New Civilization. The big picture includes MUCH, MUCH more than the worthy
endeavors of feeding, sheltering, and providing medical services for the worlds
suffering populations. A more in depth review of the covered topics from the first Consultation Process of the Coalition of the Global Commons held in Berlin this past March, reveals a much broader agenda. A key presentation made by HRH Hassan
(same guy who introduced the GMP at the UN last week) was titled, “Making the Great Adjustment”. He was followed by Professor Franz Joseph Rademacher whose main points were on the means to accomplish a Unified Earth, or how to move from intercultural frictions toward implementation of the Millennium Development Goals. According to Rademacher, this will lead to, along with other visionary concepts, “positioning the European Union and its extension processes as role models for supranational governance, and a strong regulation of the world financial sector leading to the gradual establishment of a worldwide Eco-Social Market Economy.
Jerry Greenberg (World Endowment Foundation) presented a detailed plan titled “Envisioning a Physical Location for World Governance”. His plan includes a “City for the Global Commons” with a “ Global Emergency Relief Center Clearinghouse”. A city from which UN agencies, a World Parliament out of which financial, environmental and social organizations would operate. In addition, visions of, “The Lighthouse: Light is the Absence of Darkness” a “Spiritual Center of Illumination”.

HRH Prince El Hassan bin Talal will be the keynote speaker at the upcoming “Globalization For the Common Good” Seventh Annual Conference June 30-July 4 2008 Melbourne, Australia. Melbourne is also the location of the Dec. 2-9 2009 Parliament of the World’s Religions gathering.

HRH Prince El Hassan bin Talal is involved in too many International organizations to list, but here are several easily recognized:
President of the Club of Rome (1999 – present)
Member of the Trilateral Commission
Member of the International Board of the Council on Foreign Relations
The World Conference on Religion and Peace

Rudi-Excellent post at 6:44. I've always thought Prince El Hassan bin Talal to be a lynch pin in the current roll out. He is the one to watch. Remember he was to be Jordan's king until the former king appointed his own son as the heir to the throne. As brother to Jordan's former king, Prince El Hassan bin Talal was displaced.

Great post. Though I don't think the Palestinians have been listening to HRH:

Israel 'paper tiger' for latest retreat
'We'll keep firing until every Jew climbs back into the sh---- hole he came from'

Big heads up-check out the World Future Council. The list of councilors includes Prince El Hallal bin Talal along with other Club of Romers. Their website is a laundry list for NA globalization. The really HOT piece is their tie to the Be the Change conference held in the UK in Nov. 2007. This is Obama's campaign slogan that replaced Hope. This is who Obama really is.
I was watching the Libertarian Party presidential conference today. It was fun to watch as it wasn't so staged as that of the two main parties.

What was interesting is how open the references to New Age were when I looked up the candidates.

Bob Barr won the spot. On one website it was said of him:
"If you nominated a Barr," said a rival candidate, "you’d lose the entire, very large, neo-pagan and non-traditional religious people. You'd lose the entire gay and lesbian groups. It would be a very big problem."

Now Mary Ruwart came in second. It was pretty clear on CNN that she didn't want to be on a ticket with Barr. On her website a book she wrote was described as "Healing Our World In an Age of Aggression. Dr. Ruwart’s international best-seller integrates the principles of libertarianism with Christian, pragmatic, and New Age perspectives. Visions Magazine called Healing "one of the most important books of the decade."

Over at lyansraar blogspot we see
(If you didn't read the links above, Ruwart is a strong anarchist who makes a living from New Age quacksalver books. In one of those books, she made the argument that age-of-consent laws violated the rights of the child to have sex- which fact was brought into the open by Root's campaign this month.)

Then we have Wayne Allyn Root who according to many websites was described by the Wall Street Journal as a New Age P.T. Barnum.

7. Christine Smith. Age: 41. Experience: author of A Mountain in the Wind: An Exploration of the Spirituality of John Denver. That says it all

Steve Kubby's son describes himself as
"I was born July 8, 1975 at 5:32AM near Mt. Shasta, California at a New Age summer camp that my parents founded called Earth Camp One (ECO)."

Then we have
8. Michael Jingozian. Age: 46. Experience: founder of AngelVision Technologies.
A self-proclaimed "new age libertarian" whose 5-year plan assumes that he'll lose this election and win in 2012, .....

I couldn't find any New Age tie to Gravel or Phillies. It was said that Barr looked for Ruwart to be VP, but she turned him down.
To all, including but not limited to anonymous 10:41 --

Just back -- exhausted, but excellent audience with excellent questions. I spoke to Sar Shalom Congregation of Mansfield, Ohio. Left a very good taste in my mouth, so to speak.

I so very much enjoyed the analysis of the Libertarian convention. Thanks so much for that excellent post!

Anon 10:03 pm-
Yes- HRH is even getting top billing in certain Christian circles as Constance recently brought to our attention during her My Perspective Radio program.
As she pointed out, the February 2008 issue of 'Christianity Today' featured an interview with the Prince. You can read it here:

Thanks for pointing out his link to The World Future Council. Also, another World Future Council member, Dr Scilla Elworthy, (Founder of the Oxford Institute) was another one of the speakers at the March 5-6 2008 Berlin Consultation Process of the Coalition of the Global Commons.

Hi Deannie, Good point about the Palestinians. I wonder though, considering the Prince is a devout Muslim, and involved to the extent that he is, in many, major Interfaith organizations - if those who are of similar mind-set, (whether Palestinian or other Arabic nationality), will prefer dialogue and peaceful compromise, to continued jihadist attacks on Israel. Time will tell I guess.
Correction to my last comment:

Dr. Scilla Elworthy, Founder, Oxford Research Group - not Oxford Institute.

HI all,
Just catching up after being offline for a few days. Yes, Sara, by all means. I'm happy to have a private dialogue with you to clarify where I'm coming from.

No one can "convert" anyone by the way...At least in my believe system.

¶ Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Messiah would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. Luke 24:44-47

He and He alone can "open our eyes" .. Once I was blind, but now I see. I don't believe that we can convert anyone. Spiritual birth is when the Spirit of the Living God gives us life. It is from Him and Him alone. We can proclaim His truths, from Torah, Prophets, the Writings and the Newer Covenant, but we are only messangers.

Joyce at the airport..
Super post Rudi
It's hard to overestimate the conceit
and hubris of a crowd that thinks it can change the very foundations of the world.
Who do they think they are ? Oh yeah that's right, they think they're God.
But of course what they really getting at is global taxation.

And super post Joyce,
Your point is seen clearly in the book of Acts, where the disciples were scattering and disillusioned and scared until the day of Pentacost when God stepped in and established his Church on earth with power.
To that point all they had done was to wait and watch.
Only God can establish a true church and only God can save a soul.

Joyce, thanks Sweetie, but I'm spoken for.
Thanks for the info Lynn.

Like you, I am amazed at the networking that goes on within the NA.

We have some new legislation due to start tomorrow ... EU Unfair Commercial Practices Directive.

It's causing quite a stir amongst mediums and spiritualists!


Thanks for those interesting links. That atheist rapper from the East Bay really tells it straight doesn't he?

--Cautious Man
Thanks for the link. Sounds like the EU doesn't like the competition. All matters of hocus pocus will have to defer to the State of Hocus Pocus, forthwith and henceforth.

I would word it just a bit differently from you. A Messianic perspective on that is on the day of Shavuot (which is coming up soon) all of the Jews from the diaspora were in Jerusalem ( see Lev. 23). Shavuot was the feast were Moses received Torah and 3000 were killed for worshipping the golden calf. In the Book of Acts 3000, receive the Ruach HaKodesh and were saved. There are NO accidents in God's calendar.

The ekklesia(called out assembly), which is called church, is the same thing as the qahal(called out assembly) so there has been a "called out assembly since the Wilderness. God did not make a "new entity". Through the death and resurrection of Yeshua, we have access to the throne directly and the Ruach HaKodesh indwells us, but this is the renewed or newer or better or improved Covenant that God made with Israel. If you go back to Jeremiah 31:31-33, God was speaking to Israel, not to "a church".

I believe that God's covenants are with Israel. Who is Israel? The Jews, the scattered Northern tribes and anyone else who believes in the God of Israel and loves His people, like Ruth. God renewed His covenant and improved it ( better translation for the word has both senses). The improvement was that our High Priest, Yeshua HaMashiach paid one time for all of our sins, so we have free access to the Father, through His shed blood. He didn't cancel Torah. Read Matt 5:17-19.

Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin. The blood of bulls and goats could not remove sin once and for all, but the blood of our perfect Passover Lamb, the goat of Yom Kippur became a one time for all offering to remove sin and guilt. If you read about the offerings there are other kinds that you will see in Torah. These offerings will take place again in the Millennial Kingdom according to Ezekiel 46.

Sarah, I know you are set in what you believe. I won't try to change you. Just sharing another way of looking at the whole Christianity/Judaism schism . I've actually thought about this for a long time and wondered how the split started. The first believers were Jews and continued in their Jewish practices. The schism came after the death of Yeshua's followers in the second and third centuries.

Even if you don't agree with all of what I say, if you look at the history of Second Temple Judaism and see what happened after the destruction of the Temple, you will realize that there may be some truth in this perspective. Unfortunately, years of anti-semitism and sometimes translation that was biased, caused some of the confusion. Today scholars are debating about these very issues i.e.
was Paul/Shaul really anti-Torah? Did he really start a new religion called "Christianity" or was this just the name used by the Romans to insult the Jewish believers in Yeshua?

As many Jews come to believe in Yeshua, they are bringing a fresh perspective, a hebraic perspective on all of this. Some of the scholars that have raised these questions are not Jewish. With the discovery of Dead Sea scrolls we have more information about what happened during that period than we did in the past...Second Temple Judaism was very divided as is Judaism today. The believers in Yeshua were considered one of the sects of that period and were called the Way, but they were considered fully Jewish and continued to go to the synagogue where they heard Torah. They continued to follow the feasts and give offerings of animals.

One day we will be one in Yeshua ( echad) but now we are still divided...

Shalom in Yeshua,

I heard about that legislation. That'll be interesting to see how it goes. What I find interesting as well is that it is an EU act... or "directive", I see they're calling it. I don't really know the ins and outs of the government structure over there...the EU creates laws for the individual nations within the EU, does it? How is that impacting the sovereignty of the individual nations?

You know, I was first looking at the new age movement at a grass roots level and seeing how prevalent it was here in North America, how different media people such as Oprah were making it become commonplace within our culture, making it just seem like the norm. And it was especially when I first left the new age thing and was feeling vulnerable and thus trying to avoid it that I realized it was EVERYWHERE. (I also noticed that it seemed to be only the more conservative Christians and some but not all atheists who were expressing concern about that fact. Most of the more scientifically inclined atheists seemed more interested in picking on Christians and pointing out how they believed the atheists were so smart and Christians are so dumb by comparison. And I was thinking, "What is the matter with you people, look at the new age movement, THERE'S your threat!")

And then I found out that what I was seeing was such a very small part of a much bigger picture, and I was horrified. This wasn't just a western cultural thing, this was world wide and multicultural and it involved many groups, many organizations, and governments on an international level. I understood how Constance felt when she said she wanted to go to the nearest church and hide. :-)

And then I realized Bible prophecy is being fulfilled right before my very eyes. Wow...

Cautious Man,

Yes, that atheist rapper's blog is not for the faint of heart or easily offended, that's for sure! Sometimes he does pick on Christianity and he has been downright offensive about it on a few occasions, but I find he is most virulently against the new age movement. He STUDIES it. And he's quite annoyed with many in the atheist and 'scientist' community for being too new age-inclined.

I'll bet he would find Constance's books interesting. I have both of them on order, can hardly wait until they get here. :-)
Joyce, perhaps you need to learn something yourself...NO means NO. You act like men who think a woman really means yes when she says NO. Sarah
Lynn, read EUreferendum which is linked to on the front page. When the laws are made in Brussels, citizens in the UK cannot take leaders out by the election process. The carrot the EU uses is based on greed and the offer of increased profits for the countries involved. The EU rationalizes its control by saying it is needed to increase those profits. The UK leaders put on a show for the citizens and most of the news is based on soap opera type stories that never tell how the country is being run.

I wrote to the man who runs the website you wrote about and informed him about this one. He wrote back saying, "Thank you - I'll do that. While it's true, I am an atheist, I'm aware that some of the best work on NA has been done by Christians, so it's not an impediment for me, though she might feel different. Still, I'll take a look. Thanks again."

By the way, work against New Age is also being done in the Orthodox Jewish community on a large scale though the writing isn't generally in English.

In addition to keen powers of observation, that East Bay rapper also seems to have a strong moral compass. Nice piece on Alice Walker for instance.

I like bloggers with a strong moral compass. How the heck did you find that link? I never would have.

--Cautious Man
lynn this is from the essay A Good Question that is over there now.

And, when the chatterati then focus on the soap opera of politics, instead of the substance – in obsessive detail – what little news about the EU which does escape is drowned out. Look, for instance, the huge amount of coverage devoted to speculation about whether Gordon Brown is going to be replace as prime minister, before the next general election electorally mandated reshuffle.

Despite the fact that Brown is and always was going to stay in post until the next election, coverage of the soap opera has totally dominated the political "news" ever since last Thursday's by-election. Now compare this with the coverage of the Irish referendum or, for that matter, the debate on the British referendum (not) in the Lords.
Lynn and K regarding
"Mediums and spiritualists fear changes to laws regulating the industry could leave them open to malicious civil action by sceptics."

I think in the long run this would impact religious groups rather than New Age groups in that New Age people always claim some sort of science behind their "spiritual" pronouncements. Since the late '70s when it began, there is a whole academic industry exploring the connection between science and religion.

Put "science religion conference" into a web search to look at the extent of the industry. Religion can be broken down into many areas of study. Templeton funds many studies. or
Some have asked how Islam might be brought into the one religion scheme. Maybe the religion-science theme is one way. Check out this website.

See the Dialogue between civilisations thread on that page.
Lynn - I'm relieved the link and explanation was posted by anonymous because although I live in the UK I have no real idea how this EU stuff creeps in! The EU operations are a mystery to many if not most!

Anonymous - thanks, I hadn't spotted the 'science' bit before.

I knew that the name 'Templeton' rang a bell though, I was looking at the site last night!

Ervin Laslo's Worldshift University organizers;

Quote, "Dr. A. Harris Stone Founder and Chancellor of Connecticut’s The Graduate Institute."

The Graduate Institute

has, as an affiliate,
"The Learned Society for Spirituality and Complexity is a Connecticut-based learned society, established by The Graduate Institute, with funding support from the Metanexus Institute on Religion and Science (a division of the John Templeton Foundation)."

These guys really know how to network!

Anon 6:21, I'll have to look further into the EU...I'm not the most savvy when it comes to politics across the ocean from here, I barely know the basics, if that. That's great that you wrote to the blogger--I assume you're talking about the "East Bay rapper"? (I call him "CMC", he calls himself "Crack Emcee".)

And speaking of this fellow-- to Cautious Man: I found CMC's blog through another one. Steve Salerno of "Shamblog" was inviting stories from family members of new agers who had suffered collateral damage as a result of their loved one's new age practices. He was going to write a series, but he had to stop for legal reasons. The writer of "The Macho Response" blog wrote to Salerno, and from there I ended up reading CMC's story on his own blog, and I've been reading it off and on ever since, and now it's daily. He writes a LOT, if you miss a day there is a lot of catching up to do. I was reading all these anti-new age blogs even while I was involved with new age. I'm not sure why I was doing that, but it probably helped me to not get so far in that I was completely lost.
You act someone who is deaf. I don't think I can change you. Only God can..

anon 7:15 It's interesting to note that Andre Azoulay, the Jewish advisor to the King of Morocco, the new president of the Anna Lindh Foundation is also part of the Dialogue of Civilizations. It seems that the Clash of Civilizations has provided the excuse to "combine" the Civilizations in any way possible. God is the one who set the boundaries for the nations...Babel is man's effort to reunite them.

It's very interesting that a Jew is advising a Muslim King. The King also has a half sister who lives in Israel. His father had a Jewish concubine in his harem, who gave birth to the King's sister.

I should add that the nations are grafted into the Olive tree, Israel. Olive trees produce olives. That may seem simplistic, but for centuries we have struggled with things like replacement theology i.e. the Church replaces Israel, or dispensational theology, God has 2 separate redemption plans, one for Israel and one for the Church. I believe God has always had one called out assembly and we are on a continuum with the ekklesia in the Wilderness. This is the mystery that Paul speaks of in Romans 11, that has remain hidden. God is not a God of confusion but a God of order. We are only saved by faith in the redeeming work of Yeshua, whether we are the "natural branches" or the branches being grafted in. We become part of Israel...those who persevere with God, like Jacob. Hope that clarified my comments.

I just believe the terminology is confusing. Because we say Shavuot in the Torah and Pentecost in the Book of Acts, people fail to see that this is the same feast and one word is Hebrew, the other Greek. In Acts 15 James states clearly that the new believers in Yeshua would continue to go to the synagogue and hear Moses i.e. grow in knowledge of the Torah, Prophets and Writings which were the only available Scriptures at the time....and the only place they could be heard. He was speaking about the new converts from the nations....not the Jews. This
changed between 70 ad and 135 ad for many reasons to lengthy to discuss here.


Awesome post. Yours are always so filled with info, it's taken some time to get to it. Some more links with Jordan. The Jordanian royal family are the ones behind "A Common Word"

Queen Rania of course is funding the media fund of AoC, but another interesting fact is that the former King of Jordan, the father of the current King is buried on Temple Mount. The Jordanians also had permission to put up the largest mineret.

The Jordanians are actively persecuting Bible believers in their much for tolerance. In all of the Muslim countries it's a crime to share the gospel, so all of this talk is pure propaganda. These governments are the most intolerant in the world. Someone who leaves Islam is an apostate worthy of death according to Islam.

The spiritual vacuum in Europe has opened the way for Islam to dominate. Some call it Eurabia.

to Shalom_blessings, I'm not sure how to do that.

to Anon 7:15 forgot to mention AAzoulay is also a member of the HLG of the Alliance of Civilizations.
Hi Everyone,
Keep your eyes on this event, with a cast of characters that are interesting and include Maurice Strong and Barbara Marx Hubbard

Sadly people in the Evangelical world are participating like Jay Gary who teaches at none other than Regent University ( Pat Robertson's school). He has also helped design the Perspectives Course which comes out of the the Center for World Missions in California and is involved with the AD 2000 movement.

Of course many major corporations are involved too.

It's a long document but worth looking at.
More on the rebuilding of Babylon...

I stumbled on to this in some research of "Bechtel" corp. in Wikipedia

On April 17, 2003, following the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, USAID awarded a $680 million reconstruction contract to Bechtel. Although Bechtel's contract was awarded by competitive bid, this job placed the company in the spotlight along with other American firms like Halliburton who have come under intense international scrutiny for receiving no-bid contracts for the rebuilding of Iraq. Critics in both the United States and allies like Britain have questioned the process by which the U.S. awarded Iraq contracts to American companies. The profiteering from the destruction caused by the shock and awe at the beginning of the war has caused Bechtel to be accused of disaster capitalism.
On May 5, 2003,
The New Yorker ran an article revealing that the bin Laden family had passively invested several million dollars in The Fremont Group, a private equity fund owned by the Bechtel
Joyce, you really do have a problem with people getting along with each other unless you are dictating the terms.

Your little spin on Azulay doesn't quite fit with the facts. I would suggest those interested read the Wikipedia bio on Azulay. He is not "the" advisor, just one of many. He has a full-time job in the corporate world. His work on behalf of Moroccan Jews, as he is one, is commendable.

It's one thing to push your religion. It's another thing to throw a little antisemitism onto this blog with nasty implications.

Moroccan Jews do not have to leave their religion behind to get along with some Muslims.

Jews tend to be pretty tolerant. For example, they allow a huge number of Messianic Christians to live in Israel.

Talk about a one world religion -
Communicate the Word of God can be Muslim and celebrate Jesus

but then not to be outdone there is
From Messianic Jew to Muslim Jew: finding Love.
Posted last November:
The Strongs are the fulcrum for many New Age endeavors. Look at Marice Strong's affiliation with the World Future Society. WFS ties together a whole host of endeavors. BM Hubbard, Al Gore, the Nasbits and Toeffler. WFS has long promoted the occult in the clever mainstream ideas of futurism. It launched transhumanism via Kurzweil. WFS is promoting a future that will use nanotechnology to create brain/neuron interfaces with wireless micro computers. Also, WFS promotes the notion of transformation of humankind via NASA involvement in not only space technology but also education. Look at the X Prizes where contributtors have included Walter Kistler, another WFS founder and rocketry and eugenics promotor tied closely to NASA. His Foundation for the Future is a creepy New Age endeavor tied to some weird ideas about evolving humanity brains to create a new biological humanoid species.Kistler now has a new award for educators who teach his ideas.
I have a bit more information on him than you do, but I'm not going into that:

He would be happy to see Israel divide their land, so if you're okay with that all I can say is I disagree.

Azoulay has worked on behalf of Moroccan Jews, but he is working to unite the cultures. He helps organize the Sacred Music Festival which includes sufis and every other kind of "sacred music" in creation. He was also interviewed by Benjamin Creme's Share International Magazine.

When you say that he works on behalf of Moroccan Jews, I guess that depends what you mean...

He is a member of the High Level Group of the Alliance of Civilizations, but I suppose that's benign too..

p.s. Sarah, Wikepedia is not exactly the most reliable source for information.. I use it too sometimes, but you have to take it with a grain of salt. Anyone can post on Wikepedia..kind of like this blog.
The Messianic Muslim business is deadly. You can't hold on to Islam and follow Yeshua. This is becoming very popular in some circles.

When we follow Yeshua, the Living Word, we have to turn from all that is against the Bible. Anything else is syncretism. We cannot incorporate pagan practices into our faith because God tells us to be a holy set apart people..that's the "ekklesia" or the "qahal". It literally means to be set apart or the "called out" people of God. God is holy and so we are to be a holy people. We are called to be a light to the nations and teach others His Ways..

That's great that Israel is permitting Messianic JEWS to live there. They are Jews and as such have the right of return..Why should Messianics be discriminated against when New Age Jews live there. Many Messianics are Torah observant, which is more than you can say for 60% of the population of Israel who are secular Jews. Messianics are a good example to the secular Jews who are Jewish in identity only and don't remember what it means to be a "light to the nations".

We are to have Torah on our hearts, not by the letter which kills but by the Spirit which gives life. Yeshua lived out Torah and taught us how to. It's not just legalism, it's about HIm.

Yes Joyce, we know you believe Messianic Christians are superior to Jews who follow Judaism, just as many Christians do.

Yes, some Messianic Christians would have a problem with Messianic Muslims. It kind of blows the cover of the Messianic Christian movement as both movements move in the same direction with the same words. Oh well, the one world religion just might be Messianic fill-in-the-blank.


Messianic: African Independent
10 Congregations 1995
2,000 Affiliated
1 Denominations
1 Countries

Messianic Chinese

Messianic Hindu temples

Messianic Jewish

Messianic Muslim mosques
Hey, look at this.:-)

I'm smiling, glad to see CMC's been here.
Shavout and Pentacost both mean Feast of Weeks don't they? And the Feast of Weeks is found in
Leviticus 23:15&16.
It seems apparent that all the feasts have an original Hebrew word and usually a Greek word which tries to say the same thing.
I say this not so much for your information as for anyone who might be listening.
Passover is also called Pesach

The Feast of Trumpets is known as Rosh Hashana.
The Feast of Atonement is called Yom Kippur.
The Feast of Tabernacles is called both Ingathering,
and Sukkoth.
Am I right ?


If you read my comments carefully, I was talking about the fact that many Jews that DON'T follow Torah at all. You should know that as an Orthodox believer. It's not a question of better. It's a question of the requirements of living in the Land. As an Orthodox, you must certainly know that God says He will spit those out of the land that don't obey His Word. It's a question of the requirements of STAYING in the LAND.

I'm sure you have read many verses about this:

Lev. 26:32 ‘I will make the land desolate so that your enemies who settle in it will be appalled over it.

‘You, however, I will scatter among the nations and will draw out a sword after you, as your land becomes desolate and your cities become waste. ‘Then the land will enjoy its sabbaths all the days of the desolation, while you are in your enemies’ land; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
‘All the days of its desolation it will observe the rest which it did not observe on your sabbaths, while you were living on it. Lev 36:33-35

As you are well aware, if you follow Torah, God said to us time and time again that HE would punish us and send us into the galut, for violating Torah.

The very good news is that He promises, in spite of our disobedience that He would have mercy on us and bring us back one day.

‘Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them, breaking My covenant with them; for I am the LORD their God.
‘But I will remember for them the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the LORD.’” Lev 26:44-45

Thankfully, we serve a God who never forgets His Covenants. He will put them on our hearts through Yeshua the Messiah.

“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10


Exactly...Rosh HaShanah is really Yom T'ruah. Modern day Judaism calls it the new year and in a sense it is an agricultural new year, but God said the new year starts with the month of Aviv. It starts with the month of our liberation from slavery in Egypt ( or liberation from sin).

Yom T'ruah is the Feast of Trumpets, which corresponds with the Trumpets of Revelations...the Tribulation. At the sound of the last Trumpet, the dead in Messiah will rise first and then those who are alive will meet Him in the clouds...

Sukkot is the wedding feast that we will all go to in the Millennium:

Zech. 14:16 ¶ Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. (Sukkot)

This is most likely the time of Yeshua's birth, not December 25 which is the pagan feast of Saturnalia, and the birthday of Zeus and every other false god in creation. There's a lot of reasons we can know this, but one is the timing of Zachariahs tour as High Priest when the angel spoke to him and announced the birth of John and in turn the timing of Mary's visit to Elizabeth. The Bible is not explicit about this, but there are other factors which cause most to say this, not the least of which, Sukkot is about God dwelling among us!!!

One more small but important point. According to the Bible, a Jew is someone who descended from Judah. In the Bible, Yeshua's followers were called Jews,
therefore I only care about what Yeshua and the Bible say. The Rabbis of our day say some things that don't correspond with the Bible. One example is that your sins can be forgiven without the shedding of blood.
Wrong! Rabbinic Judaism had to compensate when the Temple was destroyed.

Swinging a chicken over your head at Yom Kippur doesn't satisfy the Torah requirements for the use of two goats, one who would be sent off in the Wilderness and one that would be slain.

Because Yeshua paid the ultimate price, we have access to the Holy of Holies in the heavens. This is the improvement that God made in His Covenant. He did a one time for all sin sacrifice, so that when He destroyed the Temple people were not left without a means of atonement. Right now, Jews who don't know their Messiah have no assurance that their sins are forgiven based on the Torah itself. That creates a big problem when you die. How do you know you've been forgiven? How can you go to the presence of a Holy God. HaShem has made provision for His people....His people just need to turn to Yeshua and they can be made white as snow.

Is. 1:18 ¶ “Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.

An article about Oprah:

I wonder if it's her pushing of new age stuff that is at the bottom of any decline in her ratings...
The World Network of Religion Futurists ( is a good place to get a look at some of Jay Gary's friends. WNRF promotes NA syncretism and awards the Earl Award which is a crystal ball. Awardees include Barbara Marx Hubbard and Jay Gary as well as a leader of an wisdom school in OK, among others. They are big on chaplaincy for the future of humanity in space. Rabbi Dror is promoted as futurist of the Jews. There is something to offend everyone at the WNRF. ALSO Be the Change can be found at where info on it's American roots reveals Don Beck (Spiral Dynamics) and others big time new agers got it started. It parallels the Tikkun effort to create the Network of Spiritual Activists within the same time frame. Jim Garrison of Wisdom University fame was directly involved in both groups. Obama was supposed to be at the Spiritual Activism Conferences in Tulsa (2006) and wa state (2005). With "be the change" part of Obama's rhetoric, the Oprah tie in, and Paul Ray language, there is a clear NA linkage to Barack Hussein Obama. Jean Houston was at both SA conferences which were designed to undo the Christian Right.
K and anon 7:01 p.m., I just had this further thought about the EU legislation affecting the business practices of spiritualists and mediums...Don't you think the fact that this sort of racket has been placed in the "commercial" category now gives it more of an air of legitimacy? Like this is "normal" going to a manicurist or hairdresser, perhaps?
Joyce, the fact that you use the New Testament means that you are giving the Messianic Christian spin on the values of Judaism and of course you think its the correct perspective. Probably there is a Messianic Christian spin on all of the religions listed at the link given earlier. Start to think big. Don't stop at the Messianic groups listed. Let me know when you get to Messianic Theosophists or Messianic New Agers.

For those who are interested in the nexus between science and the NA:

Recently, there was a seminar held at the local medical center. It was entitled Reconciling Science and Spirit, A presentation on Arthur M. Young's Theory of Process which explains: The Personal and Societal evolution through our connection with the universe. It tell participants to "Get ready to evolve and shift your reality." It was sponsored by the Institute for the Study of Conciousness, Rossmoor Wellness Group, the Institute of Noetic Sciences and the Institute for Frontier Science.

What I found disturbing is that it was held at our local medical center and it provided RNs with 14 continuing education units.


Here is a primer on Arthur Young's Theory of Process.

This organization, Health, was the host for the seminar.

Hi Lynn,

Yeah, the EU directive does seem to give an air of acceptability about the whole sleazy market. To not be recognised as a religion and to now have to call it 'entertainment' kinda throws it into the 'Victorian Parlour Games' bracket ... just a bit of so called 'innocent' fun.

I sure hope we don't start seeing their paraphanalia crop up on the shelves at toy shops ... that's if crystal balls, ouija boards, tarot cards and such aren't there already, I really don't know, I don't get to the shops or mainland UK very often so when I do it's often quite overwhelming!

"Get ready to evolve and shift your reality."--THAT is going to be part of continuing education for registered nurses? I would prefer my nurses to stay in THIS reality,thank you very much. And see the symptoms that are actually right in front of them and follow the prescribed treatment, umm, with REAL medicines and therapies and stuff...;-) Wow!

Oh, I see a favorite little new age buzzword in that web page you linked to: "paradigm". Maybe they can all "evolve" and help the rest of us "evolve" and become "change accelerators" so we can all "be the change"...

I'm going to sign off here, I feel myself about to go on a silly rant...More of a silly rant...Oh, but man, this stuff is just too much sometimes, you know that?
Hi Constance - it was great to hear you say you might be opening your own website - I do hope you're able to do so as it would be such a clearer format to present your findings through ... maybe add a forum too?

If I can be of any assistance on the graphics side of things (logo, headers, buttons, backgrounds, graphs, etc) please holler. I do have my own commercial website so have a good understanding of web graphic requirements and would be happy to work with any coders who might volunteer if it helps. :)

GOOGLE: Ex-AG Sutherland to be one of God's top bankers

By John Cooney

I was wowed!!!!!!

He's the POPE'S new investment guru.

He's someone to watch as he has all the connections including BP a.k.a. Queen and Goldman name a few.

Please look him up!

Sarah, I can tell you like the term but
I still think "Messianic Christians" is a redundancy.
Who ever used the term "Messianic Christian" before Wikipedia ?
It's like saying Christian Christian.
I think it's a subversion term. Like something out of G. Orwell. Not doublespeak exactly, more like confusionspeak.
As far as Messianic Moslems, how could a moslem be Messianic when the Q'ran says that it's believers are "not to take Christians for friends" or even associate with them. To associate with a Christian
would make one an infidel, not to mention the Q'ran says "God has no son." and many other such
rejections of Jesus the Christ.
The Q'ran came along 650 or so years after Jesus left this earth and sat down at the right hand of POWER, in heaven. In that roughly 650 years
this Christian religion took off like a global wildfire
It spread to every corner of the earth 1000 years
before the invention of the printing press !
It's easy to tell Muhammed didn't like that fact.
It's also easy to tell that the writers of the Talmud also hated that same fact.
Today there are Christian congregations of believers in virtually every country on earth. Some more, some less. It's illegal to be Christian in a number of countries, but that doesn't stop the Good News.
It doesn't matter to me if the word Christian was used by Romans to belittle them. The term works for me. I'm a believer in Jesus, the Son of God.
I would like to speak Hebrew but I don't yet.
The Bible says they were first called Christians at Antioch. ( Acts 11:26 ) It doesn't say it was a term of derision.
Peter uses the term respectfully. I Peter 4:16:
"If any man suffers as a Christian let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God through that very name."

We've gone from the tower of Babel to the World Wide Web. Nothing has been withheld from the imagination of mankind. It's only been slowed by
these differing languages.
Some say Messiach, some say Christ. Both words mean Anointed, as with oil, or otherwise consecrated. THE Messiah was anointed to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel, it's true.
And it's true, we are grafted on by the Great Husbandman.
When I was a kid we had these old apple trees out behind our house. Some of them had been grafted many years before. There was one tree that produced both Macintosh and, on one or two branches there were some old forgotten variety
called Transparent apples. They tasted a little
like pears. They were both good fruit.

Shalom and peace,

Vaclav Klaus has a new book out and he wants to debate Al Gore on global warming. I'd put my money on Klaus. He's very sharp. I always wonder what he thinks of Vaclav Havel and his NA proclivities.

Paul, See the words World Christian Encyclopedia.

I didn't come up with the statistics. This group did.

They accounted for
Messianic Muslim mosques
1,200 Congregations
105,000 Affiliated members
2 Denominations
2 in two countries

Here's one website. Check it out for yourself.

or look at
PDF] Messianic Muslim Followers of IsaFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
“Messianic Muslims,” follow Christ but remain within the Muslim community. ... Messianic Muslim Followers of Isa. A Closer Look at C5 Believers and ...

Or look at - Similar pages

NSM KnowledgeBase - #8775 - Messianic Muslim Followers of JesusChristian missions portal with largest collection of missions articles and free e-groups. - 18k - Cached - Similar pages

Put in Messianic and Muslim into a websearch and find many such websites.

Yes Sarah but how far back do these terms go ?

Has Wikipedia replaced the Bible for you or did the Bible ever have a place of honor in your mind ?

Interesting article from the LA Times entitled "The Church of Green":

Found that reference today's The Macho Response blog entry. Thanks, CMC! :-)
Many of my quotes to you are from Tanach, not only the Newer Covenant.

As for the subject of Messianic Muslims, I'm glad you brought that up. Unfortunately today, there are a lot of people who do not know the whole counsel of God's Word i.e. Tanach and the Newer Covenant. These people think a Muslim can just accept Yeshua and keep all of their other practices. It's true that they have gotten this idea from Messianic Jews, but the problem is that they don't understand the ORIGINAL followers of Yeshua were Jews, so a Messianic Jew does not contradict what Scripture says. Messianic Muslims is a contradiction.

We cannot hold on to yoga, praying towards Mecca, going to a mosque, etc, etc. and follow Yeshua. Yeshua didn't contradict the Torah. He was the Torah who became flesh and dwelt among us.

You have touched on one of my pet peeves in the missions movement of organizations like that who are leading people astray.

As Paul rightly pointed out Messiah means "the anointed one" just like Mashiach, as you probably know already. Christ or Christos in Greek means the same thing. People use the world Christ as a last name for Yeshua, but this is not accurate. It's an office. He is the anointed one. A "Messianic Muslim" suggests that a Muslim who accepts Yeshua ( there are many) can hold on to Islam. This is not true. A Muslim must renounce Islam, and follow Yeshua. Any missions organization that engages in this activity is compromising the true message of Scripture.

A Jew who follows Yeshua, does not have to give up Torah practices, on the other hand. If they were engaged in things like Kabbalah or other practices that are in contradiction to Scripture, they should give these up certainly, but a Jew remains a Jew who found his Messiah. Interestingly, many from the nations are wanting to follow the Torah today.

There may be several explanations to this but I can't prove this. Some may be from the Tribes of Israel who are mixed in the nations. Some may be Jews who lost their identity and found it. Some may just want to identify with the Olive Tree that they are grafted into. As God restores Israel, in these Last is normal that there are many attaching themselves to Torah. Whatever the explanation, I believe it is the beginning of God's prophetic plan to restore ALL Israel.

Zech. 8:23 Thus said the LORD of Hosts: In those days, ten men from nations of every tongue will take hold — they will take hold of every Jew by a corner of his cloak and say, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”

The corner of the cloak would be the tzitzit, which represented obeying God's commandments.

“Speak to the sons of Israel, and tell them that they shall make for themselves tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and that they shall put on the tassel of each corner a cord of blue. “It shall be a tassel for you to look at and remember all the commandments of the LORD, so as to do them and not follow after your own heart and your own eyes, after which you played the harlot, Numbers 15:38-39

The idea of contextualization in Missions came out of the US Center for World Missions, and Fuller Seminary. According to this article the Rockefellers may have had a hand in it:

Jay Gary of the World Futures Society, certainly has a hand in this, so we can see how deception creeps in.

Well meaning people who want to share the gospel with others, sometimes make the terrible mistake of compromising the truth. We are to be a holy, set apart people which means we cannot keep Muslim practices or Indian practices or do yoga or walk labyrinths, etc, etc.

Because historical Christianity made Tanach, the "Old Testament" they fail to take God's warnings about "going the way of the nations" seriously.

Yes, the gospel went out to the nations, but it was not a license to continue to walk in our old ways. Yeshua forgives Muslims who practice Islam in ignorance when they turn to Him, but they must leave Islam totally and follow His teachings and His Word.

The good news is Yeshua died for our violations of the Torah, which is how we are able to determine what sin is. This was never a license to go on sinning. He paid our death penalty, but once we are saved, our responsibility is to lead sanctified lives. Lives that are based on His Word, which He lived out for us and taught us how to live.

One more thing. I noticed one of the sites you sent continues to hold on to the Quran. It would be impossible for a believer in Yeshua to do this because the Bible says:

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, Hebrews 1:1-3

Then in the Book of Revelations there is this admonition:

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. Rev 22:18-19

Based on these verses we know that there was not
ANOTHER revelation as the Muslims say. Also we know that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Also we know that the Quran says that Ishmael was the son of promise not Isaac.

For all of these reasons and many more, not the least of which the Quran has no witnesses. It was supposedly revealed by the angel Gabriel to Mohamed, but no one else can testify to that.
The Bible prophecies, including the Newer Covenant are confirmed by a multitude of witnesses, including the eyewitnesses to Yeshua's death and resurrection.

Deut. 19:15 ¶ “A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.

In a court of law today, the validity of the Quran would not hold up, whereas the Bible does. The difference is that in Islam, people don't question the "revelation" of Mohamed, whereas the Bible has been tried and tested through the centuries and no one has been able to dismiss it.

Yeshua's talmadin were crucified and beheaded for their belief in what He did, which is very different from Islam which is imposed in the countries where it's practiced. People don't have a choice. If they leave Islam they can be killed.

My last comment for a while. Many Muslims are having dreams and visions today and are putting their faith in Yeshua. There are even those who love Israel and believe the Land belongs to Israel and are at odds with the so-called peace process and the way it's unfolding. This is a very small minority, but they are out there speaking truth, and following wholeheartedly the Bible alone. Those that want to perpetuate the lie that the Quran is a holy book like the Bible do them a tremendous disservice. It saddens me and makes me angry because there is only one truth, not 20 different truths.

Joyce, I'm the wrong audience for your theories. Get yourself some speaking engagements at Messianic churches or post them at Messianic Muslim or any of the Messianic Hindu, Chinese, Afrian websites or Christian websites. I didn't set up the Messianic movement. It appears your greatest talent is the ability to write, and probably speak, for hours on end. It is a talent that can be admired.

You shall have no other Gods before the Lord
You shall make no idols, to worship them.
You shall not take the Lord's name in vain
Observe the Sabbath
Honor your father and mother
You shall not steal
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet anything that is your neighbors
I'm spoken for too. Thanks for the suggestions though.

Only responding to your comments that are designed to discredit people who believe in the Bible. Messianic Jews have nothing in common with Messianic Muslims.
Hope that's clear now.
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