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| It doesn't exactly capture the Middle East, but it is a lovely and reverent Czechoslovakian creche display that does encapsulate proper reverence for the reason for our season. Merry Christmas to all and consider visiting the website providing this lovely Christmas art work. |
Wednesday, December 24, 2014
Merry and Blessed Christmas to All!
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HOW TO BLOCK TROLLS FROM YOUR BLOGSPOT BLOG
Att: Constance
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I.E., HOW TO BLOCK CHRISTINE AKA NEW AGE TROLLS FROM YOUR BLOGSPOT BLOG)
(LOL) 4:07
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:) ***
Craig,
"Christine,
You wrote, quoting wiki, which quotes Webster’s, ”The English word priest has presbyter as the etymological origin”
But, the point is lineage among the GREEK words. Does the Greek hieros have any etymological lineage with the ENGLISH word “priest?” Well, no. By your quote, the English word comes, in part, from presbyterous (Greek), not hieros (Greek)."
THAT IS WHAT I SAID, THAT PRESBYTUROS MORPHED INTO PRIEST, AND THE USUAL GREEK WORD FOR PRIEST IS HIERUS OR HIERO.
but the latter has no function but sacrificial and liturgical, no other relationship to the worshippers and the function of an elder is more complicated than that, involves teaching and counselling also. And the use of hiero, which IS used regarding Christ, would tend to confuse the lesser priesthood with His greater priesthood. the elder has a liturgical function. but is not the one who makes intercession to the Father (except through Jesus) but to Jesus.
Then you think I think salvation consists of running around laying hands on people, not preaching and getting them to quit sinning and accept Jesus as their ruler (that's what "Lord" means).
Did I not mention the thief on the cross next to Jesus was saved by his confession of belief to Jesus Christ Himself, though no baptism, no laying on of hands, no communion?
laying on of hands comes AFTER baptism. where are you coming from?
And who is going to do all this laying on of hands and be sure it is effective, when there is a lack of known transmission let alone ordination to do this tracing back to bishops appointed by Apostles, outside of a few "denominations"?
""Simon Magus himself had been baptized, more like he observed all this. "
Acts 8:13 proves you incorrect."
yes, I apologize I looked too closely for the bit about the laying on of hands not the rest. Sorry. However, note that though he was running around with the Apostle Philip, it was the Apostles Peter and John, who came and determined that many of these converts had not received The Holy Spirit, and were apparently receiving teaching from Philip and believing, but had already been baptized into the baptism of John the Baptists, and it was Peter and John who dug out details and found out the need and supplied it.
And for some reason, it was Peter and John who were imparting The Holy Spirit, not Philip. Perhaps because he didn't realize the problem they suspected and corrected.
"I reread you 3:13 comment. If I'm reading it correctly only certain special individuals have received this ability to lay hands on individuals for their salvation. Assuming so, I'll pose a question similar to the one I pose to hyper-charismatics who claim they can heal at will: Why don't these few select individuals do worldwide 'evangelizing' tours to effect salvation to every living person. I'd hope we can agree that salvation is the single most important thing to an individual."
The answer should be obvious. Not everyone who heard and saw Jesus Himself, or the Apostles, believed. That is the core, to accept Jesus as God and King.
It is not an ability received like some energy charge. it is not special individuals. it is a chain of ordinations by those ordained by those ordained.......track back two thousand years.
And receiving The Holy Spirit in His fullness is not necessary to salvation, only belief and obedience to Christ.
Consider the man running around casting out demons in Jesus' Name, who didn't follow along with Jesus and the disciples in their travels as a group, and they forbade him, and Jesus said to not forbid him because no one who does a great work in Jesus' Name can soon speak evil of Him, and that who is not against us is for us.
Now my question to you is, how do you think the Holy Spirit was transmitted after The Apostles died? and what was being transmitted when those like Timothy or Titus, who had had laying on of hands to receive their office, laid hands on those to replace them or to be brought into the church, which is a physical mystical building and body of many members, whose perimeters are more porous than RC or even EO thinks, given Jesus's words mentioned above, and "he who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out"?
I agree the hypercharismatics are deceived and deceivers, especially those having to do with new "apostles," that office is not available any more. The whole thing is fleshly arrogance and self indulgence.
There's definitely something of the Simon Magus about you Aka Gnostina!
I agree tithing is not Christian relevant, more amorphous giving is.
But again, you ascribe to me positions not resembling what I said, and based on something in The Bible I refer to, when the issue is about some other matter.
Tithing occurred, that's not the point. The point is that the tithe is paid to a superior, and the levitical priesthood was still in Levi's loins (not being born) who was still in Abraham's loins (not being born) when Abraham paid tithes, so the levitical priesthood paid tithe to the melchizedec priesthood. The issue was not tithing being in force now (it is not rebuked like circumcision and sabbath keeping are rebuked, neither is it enjoined, just not mentioned, so its an optional way of organizing your giving).
The issue was, that Jesus replacing the levitical priesthood does not eradicate priesthood of any degree, or level everyone so they can pridefully pat themselves on the back in vanity and consider themselves priests and kings. A priesthood still exists, with Jesus at the apex, and it more amorphous yes, and the laity participate in a way Israel laity did not, only priests could burn the incense to YHWH, remember, but we can do this at home. It is a different priesthood, different rules. change of priesthood, change of law.
"I don’t think we can answer that. However, I think we can say that no one can just willynilly lay hands on another to effect the Holy Spirit indwelling. This is either: 1) a practice only done by 1st century Apostles; or 2) not required per se (the laying on of hands), except in obedience to God’s specific directive to the Apostles in those instances. Again, I don’t believe anyone would believe that any believer today has the power to grant salvation to anyone they please."
Note the concept "willynilly" who said anything like that? and who said anyone granted salvation to anyone? It is Jesus Who grants salvation not His intermediaries.
Those who died for Him included many who had no catechism let alone baptism. but the little they knew they responded to, and spoke up and died with the other martyrs, others were just beginning to learn.
The Apostles did not run around laying hands on people who had not accepted Jesus Christ and been baptised the picture you paint never existed.
by the way, what is the point of anointing someone sick with oil as well as praying for him or her, if this oil is not blessed and has some quality imparted by The Holy Spirit?
the absence of reference to using oil instead of Apostolic laying on of hands can be argued about, but this is explicit in James' Epistle.
Clearly some kind of sacramental activity is going on. if this was strictly medicinal, various oils of different plants would be specified because they differ, and not everyone or every elder or even every city knows such details. Why would he assume they did? unless that is NOT what this oil is about?
"The whole thing is fleshly arrogance and self indulgence.
Sums up your continually arguing blog posts to the "t" Christine.
""The whole thing is fleshly arrogance and self indulgence.
Sums up your continually arguing blog posts to the "t" Christine."
and your reactions.
You are not the Holy Spirit to teach us the scriptures, Christine.
Your arrogance in that alone is appalling. He never insists and bludgeons these things to death unlike you.
You profess Jesus but are you possessed by the Holy Spirit of Jesus? The proof of your attitude:
""The whole thing is fleshly arrogance and self indulgence." is totally self incriminating. If you were full of the Holy Spirit you would have repented of this a long way back.
Dear 12.21pm, you wrote "10:32 You need to work on your neuro linguistic programing a bit harder because anyone can read the Bible and answer your questions." Too bad that you can't, it seems, for at 10.32am I wrote regarding Christian zionism, "Don't tell me I've been duped by followers of Moody. Tell me what is wrong with my reasoning...". I learned that people resort to insults when they run out of arguments.
"... people resort to insults when they run out of arguments."
Christine does that alot, peppered with cursing pouring forth from her heart.
Christine,
You wrote, THAT IS WHAT I SAID, THAT PRESBYTUROS MORPHED INTO PRIEST, AND THE USUAL GREEK WORD FOR PRIEST IS HIERUS OR HIERO.
We are not effectively communicating here. All this time my point has been NT (Greek) usage. Presbyteros and hieros do not intersect in the Greek. English was not even a language until the 5th century at the earliest; therefore, it doesn’t matter from which Greek word the English emanates. When I’ve been using “priest” I’ve been using the accepted Biblical translation from the Greek hieros; I’ve been careful to distinguish presbyteros from hieros (priest). And, the English translations of the Bible all translate hieros as “priest,” distinguishing it from presbyteros, “elder.” We are all a royal priesthood; we are not all elders, or episkopos (overseers, bishops). And, there are no hieros/priests between believers and our High Priest, though there are elders (presbyteros) and overseers/bishops (episkopos) in individual congregations.
And, suffice to say that we have a different interpretation of Hebrews 7-9ff.
You wrote:
Then you think I think salvation consists of running around laying hands on people, not preaching and getting them to quit sinning and accept Jesus as their ruler (that's what "Lord" means).
Did I not mention the thief on the cross next to Jesus was saved by his confession of belief to Jesus Christ Himself, though no baptism, no laying on of hands, no communion?
laying on of hands comes AFTER baptism. where are you coming from?
And who is going to do all this laying on of hands and be sure it is effective, when there is a lack of known transmission let alone ordination to do this tracing back to bishops appointed by Apostles, outside of a few "denominations"?
I’m really trying to understand your point of view, but it’s not yet clear to me, though you do appear to be trying to clarify. According to one part of your view, believers must go through a 3-step process: a) belief; b) baptism; c) have a qualified person lay on hands in order to receive the Holy Spirit. Yet, on the other hand, you bring up the thief on the Cross. How do you reconcile the two?
Christine,
You wrote, And for some reason, it was Peter and John who were imparting The Holy Spirit, not Philip. Perhaps because he didn't realize the problem they suspected and corrected.
This does create a problem for interpretation. Philip was one of the Twelve yet he didn’t “impart the Holy Spirit.” But then again, if the thief on the Cross wasn’t baptized, let alone have anyone lay hands on him, how did he make it to paradise?
I suppose my bottom line question to you is this? How does one receive the Holy Spirit; and is there more than one way?
You wrote:
by the way, what is the point of anointing someone sick with oil as well as praying for him or her, if this oil is not blessed and has some quality imparted by The Holy Spirit?...
Clearly some kind of sacramental activity is going on. if this was strictly medicinal, various oils of different plants would be specified because they differ, and not everyone or every elder or even every city knows such details. Why would he assume they did? unless that is NOT what this oil is about?
Whether or not there’s any sort of “quality” imparted from the Holy Spirit to the anointing oil, my point was that you failed to show an instance of the oil being used to impart the Person of the Holy Spirit to a person to effect salvation. However, the passage also speaks of prayer (v 14) and confession of sin (15-16) as part of the healing process; so, it’s possible that a non-Christian could be “healed” of their ‘sin sickness’ through this process, i.e., they’d receive the Holy Spirit. But, this would entail confessing sins and belief as concurrent or previous events to Holy Spirit indwelling.
You may think I just made your point for you; but, I don’t see it that way. (And note that there’s no “baptism” here.) Confessing sin (repentance) and belief are the necessary ingredients to salvation – the anointing of oil and laying on of hands are not necessary. In the Gospel of John, Jesus made salvation easy – simply believe in Him (3:16, 3:36, 6:40, 9:35-39, 11:25-26, etc.). He did not put further stipulations on this belief. And, no, I’m not advocating some sort of ‘easy believe-ism’ such as OSAS.
Moreover, there are quite a few instances of healing in the NT in which no oil was involved (e.g. Acts 3:6-8).
"I’m really trying to understand your point of view, but it’s not yet clear to me, though you do appear to be trying to clarify. According to one part of your view, believers must go through a 3-step process: a) belief; b) baptism; c) have a qualified person lay on hands in order to receive the Holy Spirit. Yet, on the other hand, you bring up the thief on the Cross. How do you reconcile the two?"
Exactly the problem she so very often has when she is "teaching" us. Wait till she brings up her personally manufactured holy water again that is declared fit for holy service by her resident seer (live-in boyfriend). She has gone on posting binges with that one among many other "religious ritual" things we are stupidly missing as needed in our faith.
Oh, but do remember, go carefully now, she is the life of this blog........
I heard today that President Obama wants to enact legislation providing FREE tuition to all students at community colleges, with only one caveat: keeping up grades. He said nothing about (non-)ability to pay. (Though, of course, those with the means will attend more prestigious schools, so this will not benefit these more well-to-do.) This is just another way of redistributing wealth from older taxpayers (and others with means) to the younger. This already happened with Obamacare, as, though I’m very healthy (thank the Lord), because I’m over 50, I must pay a higher premium than my much younger coworker, whose had multiple health issues. My point is that I’ve paid into the ‘system’ for years without being much of a drain on it, so to speak; yet now I’m paying a higher rate. Hardly seems fair.
Almost twenty five years ago, I myself went to a community college, working my way through. I worked full time, while attending classes at night. I eventually transferred to UTSA, graduating after nearly 10 years of school. And I paid for everything – tuition and books. Assuming this bill passes, I am to be taxed to pay for anyone else who wants to go to community college, regardless of ability to pay? Hardly seems fair.
I should add that my relatively good health comes about because I purpose to eat well, exercise, etc. However, I have to pay a higher rate because of my age. And, apparently, I pay the same rate as any other individual in my age range, even if the individual chooses to live an unhealthy lifestyle.
I should add, if this bill passes, what incentive would community colleges have to keep tuition costs down if the fed - i.e., you and I - are paying for it?
"I heard today that President Obama wants to enact legislation providing FREE tuition to all students at community colleges, with only one caveat: keeping up grades."
Craig I researched this before. As far as Illinois all community colleges have been linked or synchronized for unity and received 20 million for greening up. This was an Agenda 21 program,led by AASHE. I can post a video link if you want later this weekend. These community colleges will now be offering certificates in 'hospitality' jobs and sustainable development careers. (communist jobs) STEM has the new meaning as it pertains not our full math and science careers but computer knowledge workers (communists) "think The Lives Of Others". They will be trained to spy and report as well as 'research' your e-files as in the new career 'educational researcher'. It's a data driven society. One man's fascist is another man's researcher.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/10/05/community-colleges-america-s-best-kept-secret
they control the 4 year universities and the public schools so naturally community colleges were next
yes you will get a bill, you can pay online or with carbon credits
Anon 9:24,
I had no idea!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMQ9C6vni0w
6:28
See video above.
Orthodox (non-secular humanist Jew says over NYC video from 2013 (and I quote him) June 9 2013. 10 thousand Jews Protest against Zionism and Israel.
"It is absolutist forbidden for Jews to rule any part of the Holy Land ever since God sent the Jews into exile"
That was the same interpretation I got when I read my KJV. I guess you did a little if your own 'reasoning'.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_worker
Craig look at link above.
I was joking about the carbon tax.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=688HrZS6K2c
At 1:06 Leith Sharp Sustainability Dept for Harvard and AASHE, brags about what they did in Illinois community colleges (transformation)stick with it she says they will change the culture and empower the workforce and she puts up a map of Illinois and brags about the president (obama), the "funny business" she did was manipulate people into change. Neuro Lingusitc Programing, the power of suggestion, behaviorism, fascism, yeah whatever. She says it in the questions.
Of course Raj Patel was the AASHE speaker last year.
I'm actually very tired today, having not slept well last night; but, I did get the joke!
I just had no idea this (community college idea) had been in the planning stages for a while as part of Agenda 21.
http://skepdic.com/neurolin.html
https://neurobollocks.wordpress.com/2013/03/29/neuro-linguistic-programming-the-1970s-neurobollocks-that-just-refuses-to-die/
OOPS!
CBN promoting Scott Black "neuro linguistic programer" new age phrenology...(claims he is Christian)
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/scott-v-black/11/4b/43b
Looks like they will skip that pesky brain scan and claim your finger prints can expose your personality, learning traits, whether or not you are a hater er Christian...or your evolution ..levels of consciousness..umm your IQ.. (OH no not Tim Leary's uh duh...Howard Gardner's Multiple intelligences again! It's the enneagram!) Yes, you too can have a team of Hong Kong experts read your palms...oh duh brain...derp...derp...via your finger prints.
http://blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2015/01/08/god-fingerprints-and-your-brain.aspx
Ugh. Obama's Brain Initiative>> Glenn Beck>> and now CBN>>
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Dear 10.02pm, you refer to a rally at which "10 thousand Jews Protest against Zionism and Israel [saying that] It is absolutist forbidden for Jews to rule any part of the Holy Land ever since God sent the Jews into exile".
I've not seen the clip but these will presumably be ultra-Orthodox who believe that Messiah must come and lead them back into the Holy Land first. That is not a biblical belief whereas I founded my belief on specific verses which you decline to engage with.
Craig,
This is in Wiki today.
Does it remind you of anyone?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_specialization
No empathy, no remorse at insults, no apologies ever,
no common respect, etc etc
Seems that type of mindset from the wiki link provided would readily adhere and engage with New Age teachings very well. Behaviors that could greatly serve the humanism/secularism of our day and age. It is fast becoming totally amoral out there.
New Gnostic Gospel uncovered: The Gospel according to Christine and her Letters from Mystery Babylon!
Re: Anon 11: 21 AM, if the Hindu priests get hold of it, no doubt they'll add it to the Unholy Bagavadgita as a dueterocanonical marvel!
3:31
So there are certain Jews who just don't count. How very anti-semetic of you!! Their beliefs are trumped by the beliefs and desires of Christian Zionists?? So you DO advocate fascism or forcing your Zionist ideology onto certain Jews? So who are these Zionists you serve, what are their roots and what are their desires? Is it religious, political or economic because so far they seem to care little for the average Jew just as you do.
I provided you the link so if you choose not to watch it you have no authority to discuss it.
Dear 6.48pm, I don't get what authority I have from you. You know nothing about my name let alone my life, so saying that I care little for "the average Jew" is a stab in the dark. I do, however, place the Bible as words of truth above all else including what is uttered by rabbis; and in case you think that is a contradiction, just as I am called to love Nazis but not Nazism I am called to love Jews but not necessarily Judaism. If you are interested in a constructive discussion, please engage with the specific Bible verses I have quoted.
6:48 I am a Christian. You said that you are a Christian Zionist. Zionism began with Blackstone and his benefactors not Biblical truths and not with Paul and not with Christ. That's a real problem for you because you are arguing that specific Bible verses support Zionism. Many people have tried to twist Biblical truths to fit their political and economic desires. I am quite sure God frowns on this.
Your attempts to justify Zionism have failed to impress me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
Dear 7.39pm, we may agree that my attempts to justify Zionism (from the Bible) have failed to impress you. We disagree on why, however. You repeatedly say that my use of Bible verses to justify it is wrong but you never say why or engage with those verses. Is that because you can't? I am happy to go round this loop as many times as you choose in full view of Constance's readers, who may draw their own conclusions.
You are deeply mistaken if you think that Christian Zionism began with WE Blackstone. In the 17th century the English Puritans took the view that the Holy Land was still reserved for the Jews, and this view then flowed into the wider British evangelical movement. For the early history of this strand of Puritan thought, see the book Albion and Ariel by Douglas Culver (Peter Lang publishers, New York, 1995). For its continuation and culmination, see Barbara Tuchman, Bible and Sword (New York University Press, 1956), ch. VII.
Irish priest receives standing ovation after revealing he is gay
www.telegraph.co.UK/11337423/Irish-priest-receives-standing-ovation-after-revealing-he-is-gay.html
No, We Are Not All Charlie Hebdo
The author of the piece notes that American media outlets are not willing to publish the whole story:
...Within hours of the vicious slaughter of the unarmed and aged cartoonists, some of the executives of the Western world’s largest media outfits were already saying it isn’t wise to antagonize with pencils those who argue back with Kalashnikovs...
The New York Times has even taken to re-writing its coverage to avoid offense. When one of the Charlie Hebdo murderers cornered a journalist, he told her that he will not kill her because she is a woman, adding that she must “read the Koran… and cover herself.” After initially reporting that extraordinarily revealing exchange, the New York Times expunged it. Why?
Sadly even the venerable Associated Press, the world’s largest non-profit news collective, is in full retreat. The AP said “its policy is to not show images of the Prophet Muhammad,” akin to those published by Charlie Hebdo magazine. “None of the images distributed by AP showed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad,” said spokesman Paul Colford, telling The Daily Beast that several photos from SIPA were automatically sent to the AP’s commercial photo unit and have since been removed. A photo of Charlie Hebdo’s now-dead editor holding a Muhammad cover on the AP news wire was deliberately cropped out. “It’s been our policy for years that we refrain from moving deliberately provocative images.”
And nothing is more provocative than actual news. When a news organization stops reporting news, it should not be surprised to see its audience migrate to other, more fearless news outlets.
The Abrahamic Covenant (Gen 12, 13, 15 and further spoken of in a host of other passages you can look up) gave that land to the Hebrew people.
How is it that you have missed all of that in the Bible and subsequent history since it was all written for us? That land for His people the Jews because HE said so. Isn't His word on the subject good enough?
You have the Israelite people replaced in your mind or you would not have a problem with prophecy fulfilled that is literally "a nation born in a day" (as per Isaiah the Prophet) which is May 14, 1948-miraculous all by itself) putting those people back where God intended them according to His promise. He keeps promises or don't you realize that?
And what is going on now (by Israel's enemies) is all part of the ancient hatred (God's own words call it this) of Ishmael's descendants for the promised seed of Isaac and the animosity of Esau for Jacob concerning the birthright Esau threw away and Jacob took.
I am amazed that you are spouting this opinion stating you are a Christian yet have not studied what God actually said (and did and still is doing as fulfillment is ongoing) concerning the Hebrew people.
You are way way way behind in your study 4:42 PM.
2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Zionism is a political movement which Jews themselves disagree on.
I am a follower of Paul and his Gospel is located in the New Testament. I am confident when I say, at no time will I add the word Zionist to my self identification as a Christian, ever. Do as you wish. There is nothing left to bore Constance's readers with now.
Dear 4.42pm, I am well aware that Herzl and the late-19th century Zionists wer secular and wanted to get away from persecution in eastern Europe. But aren't you forgetting that from medieval times the Jews ended their annual Passover liturgy with the longing phrase "Next year on Jerusalem? And aren't you aware that Britain offered them land in East Africa in 1903 but the Zionists turned the offer down because they wanted to go back?
The Puritans who travelled on the Mayflower wanted to start a NEW Israel. They regarded the Jews as entitled to the Holy Land as the references I gave (Culver and Tuchman) show.
"I find no Biblical roots nor verses nor basis for me to be a Zionist."
That's because for the 4th or 5th time you are ducking any engagement with the verses I quote or what I said about the Abrahamic covenant above, as I am entirely happy to keep repeating for Constance's readers to confirm for themselves.
I am not a Zionist. You are a Zionist.
The creation of the United States of America represented a unique event in world history. Founded as a modern republic, it was rooted in the Bible, and one of its earliest tenets was religious tolerance. Of course, this was because many of the earliest pilgrims who settled the "New England" of America in early 17th century were Puritan refugees escaping religious persecutions in Europe.
{{These Puritans viewed their emigration from England as a virtual re-enactment of the Exodus. To them, England was Egypt, the king was the Pharaoh, the Atlantic Ocean was the Red Sea, America was the Land of Israel, and the Indians were the ancient Canaanites. The Puritans were the new Israelites, entering into a new covenant with God in a new Promised Land.}}
link for this quite is here:
http://www.jewishpathways.com/jewish-history/jews-and-founding-america
{{In this respect they differed sharply from the majority of traditional Christian theologies. To the Puritans the primary lesson of the Old Testament was that a nation as well as an individual could enter into a covenant with God. The Puritans reasoned in America the concept of the covenant would assume new dimensions. Once they reached the colonies a new factor entered into the matter of the covenant. In this New Israel the Puritans established a completely new society based solely upon the Jewish concept of a covenant between God and man. }}
And this link
http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/puritansweremorejewishthanprotestants.html
What is needful in this conversation is to be able to separate man's plans and ways apart from God's. A man makes his plans but God directs his heart is true in individuals as well as nations.
It all fits God's purpose for the people of Israel to be carrying on in this endeavor (in their aliyah and to secure that land unto themselves) whether or not they are less than virtuous at some times during it. What nation has done better in such? They are certainly better than most, in their ideal, than those who hate them without cause.
But what God says goes whether you or I or anyone else wants to believe it or not. That is why we are to study to show ourselves approved in all matters including this matter for you 4:42 PM.
He hasn't changed and He will continue to fulfill the ancient words He spoke. The old testament is the new testament concealed and the new testament is the old testament revealed. We are witnessing all of these things as we speak.
Your take on this is quite unbalanced.
6:45 I welcome you to use your free will to name yourself a Zionist. I shall not call you names or "unbalanced" but warn you again not to be unevenly yoked.
This is interesting but I didn't write it.
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/bible/prophecy/seed-of-abraham.php
Not all which are of Israel are Israel! He who denies the Son doesn't know the Father. The children of Abraham are spiritual. We have been grafted in as children of obedience (as was Ruth, the great grandmother of King David). Whether someone is of the tribe of Judah or Benjamin or not, if that person is a follower of Jesus Christ that person is one of God's chosen people, for there is neither Greek nor Jew for those in Jesus Christ. Nobody is given a special privileges card from God just because of his or her race, God is no respecter of persons. Obedience is and has always been the condition to a relationship with God. The children of Abraham are spiritual and not of the flesh, it has always been so, from those with Moses in the Wilderness to those with Esther, to those who accepted and accept the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
Therefore, when the Holy Scriptures tell us that God the Father will bless those who bless the children of Abraham and curse those who curse the children of Abraham, they are referring to those who are spiritual children and not merely children of the flesh. Only such spiritual children are the apple of God's eye.
◄ Romans 2 ►
English Standard Version
God’s Righteous Judgment
1Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
6He will render to each one according to his works: 7to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8but for those who are self-seekinga and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11For God shows no partiality.
God’s Judgment and the Law
12For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
17But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God 18and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; 19and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. 24For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
25For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. 26So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regardedb as circumcision? 27Then he who is physicallyc uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written coded and circumcision but break the law. 28For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.
How could one think that for a rebellious nation to return to a land, the capital of which is now referred to by God as Sodom and Egypt (see the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John) could be a blessing is beyond me. Lot and Moses were blessed to escape such places! The Kingdom of God to which all true believers belong is not of this World. This allowance for obedient Christians (whether Greek or Jew) to experience the true presence of God and enter the Holy of Holies is available only because of what Jesus Christ did on the cross, it is a free gift of grace from God Himself, and no man should boast as though it were from his own merit or flesh. The Jerusalem and promised land before Jesus Christ died and rose again was only a shadow of that which came afterwards. We who are Christians are Jews, we are God's chosen, not that we should boast but that we should be forever thankful! Glory and Honour and Power to the Worthy Lamb that was slain, forever and ever, amen!
Before anyone cries, 'replacement', they should ponder on the word, 'fulfilment' and what it means to be grafted in ro the spiritual seed of Abraham, as shown above.
6:54 you have no need to make this personal as I did not do that. I am talking about your view on this issue, not you, yourself.
God will clean house with Israel (on His timetable)......and the nations too, don't forget that is coming up, and soon not later. Are you neglecting to read the whole Bible to see the big picture? Meanwhile it suits God's plan and purpose that they (meaning Israel as we know it now-good seed and bad) are in that land today. When ready, God, will sort this out. God has allowed it this way for the history books so you want to argue that?
Best of luck to you, Zionist Christian.
8:33
Thank you 8:12 PM.
You're welcome 8:42 PM,
God bless you!
(8:12 PM)
I mean: You're welcome 8:41 PM,
God bless you!
(8:12 PM)
Anonymous 8:39 PM, in view of 6:54's valid post (you'd better see the Bible versed link 6:54 PM gave you) and the several posts immediately following it, your points are obsolete and are against what the Holy Bible says.
8:39 PM, you wrote :"Are you neglecting to read the whole Bible to see the big picture?"
I am not condemning you but your own words condemn you. You had better remember the warning given in Revelation about adding to or taking away from Holy Scripture, 8:39 PM!
This is from the link.6:54 PM gave:
Who Are Abraham's Seed?
"Now to Abraham and his seed
were the promises made ..."
Galatians 3:16
God made incredible promises to Abraham and his seed about 4,000 years ago … promises of a land for an everlasting possession, an innumerable family, destruction of their enemies, and blessings on all nations of the earth. Who is the seed of Abraham? The answer should be important to every reader.
The Seed of Abraham is Christ and His elect.
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." Galatians 3:16
"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:27-29
What about the promise of the land?
"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom:
the rich man also died, and was buried;" Luke 16:22
"And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee. Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell. And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child." Acts 7:3-5
"By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.... These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city." Hebrews 11:8-16
What about an innumerable family?
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Revelation 5:9-10
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb." Revelation 7:9-10
6:54 PM's link continues (by 9:27 PM)
What about taking their enemies' gate?
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18
"But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils." Luke 11:21-22
"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be
destroyed is death." I Corinthians 15:25-26
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." Colossians 2:14-15
What about blessings on all the nations of the earth?
"By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for
his name:" Romans 1:5
"But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:" Romans 16:26
"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." Galatians 3:8
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Revelation 5:9-10
But what about Jerusalem?
"For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." Galatians 4:25-26
"For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God." Hebrews 11:10
"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels," Hebrews 12:22
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Hebrews 13:14
Are only some Israelites the seed of Abraham?
"Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!" John 1:47
"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:6-8
"And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of
God." Galatians 6:16
6:54 PM's post continues again (9:27 pm)
Are only some Jews the seed of Abraham?
"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." John 8:39
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:28-29
"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." Revelation 2:9
"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." Revelation 3:9
So Israel is a spiritual nation of elect Jews and Gentiles?
"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." Acts 15:14-18
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." I Peter 2:9-10
But John Hagee supports the nation of Israel?
"Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.... Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." Titus 1:9-14
But Genesis 12:3 teaches blessings for F-15s to Israel?
"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Genesis 12:3
"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." Galatians 3:8
"Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." Acts 3:25-26
6:54 PM's post continues once more (9:27 PM)
Can doctrine be based on a single letter – seed vs. seeds?
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as
of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." Galatians 3:16
"But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine." Matthew 22:31-33
"Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?" Matthew 22:42-45
"Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:57-58
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" John 10:34-36
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?" Galatians 4:9
"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13
"Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain." Hebrews 12:26-27
As 6:54 PM admitted, he or she is not the author of the writing on the link, neither am I.
I have aimed to post mostly that which is scriptural only. The Holy Spirit is the Author of all Holy Scripture, and any writing other than Holy Scripture on or from the said link belongs to the author that originally put it there as far as I am aware.
My interest in the link had been purely to show the Holy Scriptures it shows there.
Whatever you want to believe 9:32.
But I notice you only quote new testament and the old is still in play regarding Israel and finishing the transgression. That is your unbalance regarding this issue that is showing.
Yes, not all Israel is Israel.
That is why God will do the sorting but it looks as though you are already doing that. it would be wise to leave that to Him and take the Bible as a whole as God wants us to do. It is His book and His plan afterall.....
If you want to argue some more you go on ahead but you are not arguing with me...you can argue with the higher Authority.
So long.
I am the original Zionist Christian on this thread. I think there are now several people on both sides of the debate here. For the record I am not ethnic Jewish. Nor do I wish to comment on the USA except to deny the unevidenced claim that Britain and hence the Founding Fathers of the USA comprised Israel's Lost Tribes.
It's time to get back to the scriptures.
As for God permitting a return of the Jews to the Holy Land in unbelief (followed by a return to faith), that's explicit in Ezekiel 36:24-6. This accurately matches the present era.
Amos (9:13-15) spoke of a permanent return, which the return from Babylon proved not to be - so it does not refer to that return but is to date consistent with the present return.
Zechariah (8:7-8) promises a future return in a prophecy given after the return from Babylon. (Ezra 5:1 & 6:14 state that Zechariah is prophesying in Jerusalem, and Zechariah 1:1 tells us that he was speaking after the exile.)
A second return is prophesied by Isaiah (11:11-12), assembling the people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth (not just Babylon). This accurately matches the present return and no other.
All of these are based on the covenant with Abraham through Isaac and Jacob/Israel, which is not abrogated by the coming of Messiah Yeshua/Jesus Christ; only the Mosaic covenant is thereby rendered obsolete.
The question has been raised here: So who are the Jews/Israel in post-crucifixion theology of the Abrahamic covenant? Paul answers this in Romans 11:28-29, saying that as far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account, but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Paul is speaking here about Jews who reject the gospel, so the definition of Jewishness that he is using in this context is NOT a faith-based one. And the Jews have kept their cultural identity in their 18-century exile. Through the centuries many gentile bloodlines have been mixed with theirs, voluntarily and involuntarily; but those bloodlines have always flowed into a people living in a recognised tradition that has continued unbroken, so that essentially all who identify themselves as Jews today include the promised line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob among their ancestors.
Conclusion: Modern Zionism is biblical - even if secular and Orthodox Jews don't think so.
Jews Are Leaving France: 10,000 to Arrive in Israel in 2015
jews-are-leaving-france-10000-to-arrive-in-2015/2015/01/12/
7:35 AM, neither do I accept the supposition that the USA via the UK is comprised of the lost tribes of Israel (as purported by some who don't understand etymology and philology). However, I stand by my point that to be a Jew is not necessarily equated with being racially connected to any of the 12 tribes of Israel. It is to be a Jew spiritually and in obedience to God through His Son Jesus Christ. He who does not have the Son doesn't have the Father either. The Old Testament was not done away with but it was a shadow of things to come, fulfilled in Jesus Christ and His ultimate victory over death and sin on the cross and through His Resurrection. Therefore the New Testament takes precedence over the Old Testament. Go back and read fully all the verses posted to shoe this above. Here's a quick reminder:
"Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:57-58
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" John 10:34-36
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?" Galatians 4:9
"In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13
Conclusion: Modern Zionism is UNBIBLICAL - even if you don't think so.
Appendage to 7:35 AM,
If you love the Hebrew peoples as you claim, why are you encouraging them to continue in rebellion and to remain in bondage? Why do you want to deny the Truth of the Holy Spirit Jesus Christ and His apostles (and the Prophets in the OT beforehand) show and speak in the New Testament? Why do you appeal to pride, vanity and tribalism rather than witnessing here that EVERYONE needs to accept Jesus Christ? For, without Him there is no salvation! It is Anti-semitic to imply that the Hebrew peoples do not need Jesus Christ and that the things of the Law will do, this will send people to Hell! That is Anti-semitic and is not love, even if those you claim to stand for blindly protest to the contrary! No-one is able to fully keep the whole of the OT law. Flesh will not inherit the Kingdom of God, only those who have accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts can have a relationship with the Father! For God so loved the World that He sent His Only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish but have everlasting life!
Preach in season and out of season. Do you become someone's enemy because you tell them the truth? Jesus Christ is the Truth, the Way and the Life and no man comes to the Father but by Him, for there is salvation in no other!
Let God be True and every man a liar!
Appendage to 7:35 AM,
If you love the Hebrew peoples as you probably believe, then why are you encouraging them to continue in rebellion and to remain in bondage? Why do you want to deny the Truth of the Holy Spirit Jesus Christ and His apostles (and the Prophets in the OT beforehand) show and speak in the New Testament? Why do you appeal to pride, vanity and tribalism rather than witnessing here that EVERYONE needs to accept Jesus Christ? For, without Him there is no salvation!
It is Anti-semitic to imply that the Hebrew peoples do not need Jesus Christ and that the things of the Law will do, this will send people to Hell! That is Anti-semitic and is not love, even if those you claim to stand for blindly protest to the contrary! No-one is able to fully keep the whole of the OT law. Flesh will not inherit the Kingdom of God, only those who have accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts can have a relationship with the Father! For God so loved the World that He sent His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish but have everlasting life!
Preach in season and out of season. Do you become someone's enemy because you tell them the truth? Jesus Christ is the Truth, the Way and the Life and no man comes to the Father but by Him, for there is salvation in no other!
Let God be True and every man a liar!
Meanwhile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Baga_massacre#Massacre_and_attacks
God loves Jacob and always will.
Just who Jacob represents now, is God's call, not ours.
The two pillars of fire which are the angels' legs in Revelations 10 are Judaism and Christianity.
The one foot on the sea is Christianity from the sea of humanity. The one foot on the earth is Judaism on the Promised Land of Israel.
The two Witnesses who testify to the world in Revelations are, Christianity and Judaism.
They will lie dead in the street for three and a half years during the time of Jacobs' Trouble.
Islam will be their murderer.
Then they will be taken up to heaven and the glory
of the Lord.
Great comeback Paul.
Of course I want to see the Jews come to salvation in Christ 9:33 AM and that is coming about in God's Way and Time. He will lift the veil from their eyes. Actually He is sorting things concerning them now and why the issue of the land and who should be the people of it is paramount to the whole thing.
How dare anyone think that God would go back on His word. He is not a man and guilty of no lie in this issue either.
"Conclusion: Modern Zionism is biblical - even if secular and Orthodox Jews don't think so."
I agree with what you stated in your response and conclusion 7:35 AM.
Dear 8.50am and 9.24am,
I am not encouraging the Jews to continue in rebellion. Every Jew needs to acknowledge Jesus Christ as divine lord and sacrifice in order to be saved, as I have said to more than one such. but only the Jews have a national, corporate covenant with God and that is the issue in the verses to I refer at 7.35am (and which you avoid engaging with in your replies).
Paul in Romans takes different views of who is a Jew, according to context. You quote one against me, but you take it out of context. The one relevant to the covenant with the Patriarchs - Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel - is in Romans 11:28-29, where Paul states to Christians that as far as the gospel is concerned they are enemies on your account, but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.
Anybody who accepts the Hebrew scriptures should support Zionism, whether they be Jew or Christian. Examples of Jews who understand this are karaites (OT-only Jews, like Bible-only Christians) and Messianics (ie, Christians).
One more thing 7:35 AM, understand that Satan employs the Hegelian dialectic in this matter:
Satan's thesis here: (As always, to twist the Holy Scriptures and appeal to the pride of the flesh) to cause evil people to hate others and fight in the flesh those who deny Jesus Christ, particularly against the Hebrew peoples, and breed Nazi ideology.
Satan's Antitheses here (always to twist Holy Scriptures and appeal to the pride of the flesh): To cause a reaction among others to encourage the Hebrew Peoples (thinking they're being anew antidote to Anti-Semitism) to remain in bondage and sin, denying the Son and therefore denying the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Satan's Synthesis here: (As always, to twist Holy Scriptures and appeal to the pride of the flesh) To silence people from spreading the Truth of the Holy Scriptures (out of fear of being labelled Anti-Semitic and being thought of as proponents of Satan's thesis here). Thereby trying to cause as many people to be separated from God in open rebellion and therefore end up in Hell!
Accept and witness to the Truth of the Holy Spirit as spoken through the words of Jesus Christ and His apostles (and the Prophets in the OT beforehand). Do not fear those who can harm the body but fear Him who has the power to cast both body and soul into Hell! Love your neighbour as yourself and Preach the truth to them, whoever they are! For there is no condemnation for those in Jesus Christ!
"In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13
Conclusion: Modern Zionism is UNBIBLICAL - even if you don't think so.
8:50 AM
Yes, as far as salvation is concerned in the above statement amen!
No, to your unbalanced view thinking that God has somehow scrapped His plan to yet save the Jewish people in the very way He is choosing to do it in this time in history to revisit the Covenant He made with Abraham to lead His people back to the land and ultimately to Himself. The process we are discussing is very much part of how it is leading to the very product God is after.
Dear 10.39am, it is not notably clear what you are saying but if you believe that my reasoning from the scriptures I quote at 7.35am is wrong in any way, whether due to subtle influences of Satan or for any other reason, please explain where and why.
"way He is choosing to do it in this time in history to revisit the Covenant He made with Abraham to lead His people back to the land and ultimately to Himself."
They will look on Him whom they have pierced. That is the future of the Jewish people who survive what is soon in coming, so don't short-circuit that idea with Scripture that is misapplied because it pertains to salvation only, to promote your view 9:33 AM.
You really need to go back and read the bible cover to cover.
No Paul, much more probable is that the two witnesses in the last days will be Enoch and Elijah. They were taken up with out dying. It is appointed once for every man to die.
If a man does not have the Son neither does he have the Father! The Prophets of old knew of the coming of Jesus Christ and who He truly is through the Truth of the Holy Spirit.
See Proverbs 30: 4 for example, read Isaiah, etc, etc!
Moreover, those who deny Jesus Christ will be witnessing what exactly? If they deny the Son He will deny them. If they don't have the Son neither do they have the Father! Therefore, they will not be speaking with the Power of His Living Breath, which is the Person of the Holy Spirit. So by which power would such persons who deny Christ be 'witnessing' exactly? And what and whom would they be witnessing for and about?
Biblically speaking, there has never been any Mandate given by God for rebellious Israelites to inherit the Holy land. Even Moses himself was not allowed to enter as an example. Israel is no longer the Holy Land, it is the place where our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was crucified; it is spiritually Sodom and Egypt due to its rebellion and persecution of the saints who live there (be they Messianic Jews, Christian Arabs or other Christians)! The former is waxed old and decaying, we look forward to a Holy Promised Land not of this World: the strangers should be treated well but alas they are persecuted for His Name's sake! Those who profess belief but do not obey with their hearts will not inherit the Kingdom of God! Jesus Christ is the Great I Am, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, through Him all things were made and without Him man can do nothing!
Let God be True and every man a liar!
If your interpretation were to smack of truth Paul, then it could only do so we're we speaking about Messianic Jews and the grafted in Christian gentiles, now true Jews also, as they are grafted in and are adopted sons of God, heirs to His promise, and the spiritual seed of Abraham along with Messianic Jews. For there is neither Greek nor Jew for those in Jesus Christ!
2 Corinthians 6
Do Not Be Unequally Yoked:
14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Without Jesus Christ dwelling in us living stones we can have no fellowship with the Father.
See also: Exodus 29: 45-46
Having written this, it is clear therefore that the 144000 sealed from the 12 tribes of Israel will be Messianic Jews and not made up of those who deny Jesus Christ. They will witness to the Hebrew peoples and draw many to know and accept the Messiah Jesus Christ (to write Messiah and Immediately write ((Jesus)) Christ is not superfluous).
Praise and Honour be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit forever and ever, Amen!
Having written what I have written above and having drawn from and posted Holy Scripture here, it is therefore clear that the 144000 (from the 12 tribes of Israel) and sealed by God will be Messianic Jews and not made up of those who deny Jesus Christ. They will witness to the Hebrew peoples and draw many to know and accept the Messiah Jesus Christ.
Praise and Honour be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit forever and ever, Amen!
Correction from 11:56 Am: 'we're' should read, 'were'.
An interesting interpretation of the 144000 is given in a video published by Endtimeministries:
'Who are the 144000? Prophesy in the News'.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUoRIC6zbtl
"Biblically speaking, there has never been any Mandate given by God for rebellious Israelites to inherit the Holy land."
not so, 10.32am! Ezekiel 36:24-6 speaks of a return of the Jews to the Holy Land in unbelief *followed* by a return to faith. Incidentally this accurately matches what is going on today.
Thanks 4:46 PM for backing up what God has actually said and is bringing about currently.
Why do people struggle with this so much?
God's ways are not our ways. He has the sovereign right to relate to His adulterous wife israel and His bride the church as He sees fit. The cross is finished business for salvation but the relationships He has with both the wife and the bride need some finishing touches. God has spelled this out for us if we do not lean on our understanding to watch how He does this and see He is doing it according to what He has already spoken. Mysteries are still unfolding. We are not God so who are we to think we must have this all figured out by noon tomorrow for goodness sake! If He did not want it this way it would not be-He is God afterall!!!. People need to reconcile that. He will prove consistent to what He has spoken every time, whether we get it or like it or not.
"God's ways are not our ways. He has the sovereign right to relate to His adulterous wife Israel and His bride the church as He sees fit."
Beautifully put 5.08pm. Thank you. It might be worth adding that He will always act consistent with the promises that He has chosen to make with man or with men, but you are so right.
Anon@4.46pm
The "bride" the church is wearing a dirty dress at the moment and God will fix that too so how dare we talk against the "adulterous wife" of God ourselves. God's plan brings them both to perfection...all in good time. His ways are awesome.
Craig, I gave everbody here a break for four days.
your remarks about free tuition in which you remark about inability to pay not being mentioned, and "what incentive would community colleges have to keep tuition costs down if the fed - i.e., you and I - are paying for it?"
explains why you have such trouble understanding things, including complexities like, The Holy Spirit can operate where He pleases with or without oil, but oil gets involved as a normal procedure.
Because if you can't understand a simple thing, like "free tuition" MEANS NO TUITION AT ALL paid by students, then you can't understand anything at all. To "free tuition" you argue about ability to pay not being mentioned, DUH, free tuition TO ALL REGARDLESS OF ABILITY TO PAY, obviously and what motive to keep tuition down DUH, free tuition means the colleges DON'T CHARGE ANY TUITION AT ALL.
to the anti zionist, who complains of being called names or being
called unbalanced, to say your take on something is unbalanced is
not saying you are unbalanced,
IT IS CALLING OUT THE (VERBAL) BEHAVIOR, and Jesus says words show
what is in the heart, so if you are chronically presenting an
unbalanced view, something is wrong and either it is the one who
points it out who is wrong, or you, in either case you need to do
some checking to be sure it isn't you.
to the person who said you were taught that calling names or cussing
is when you run out of argument, YOU WERE TAUGHT WRONG. it is from
frustration at the other person's inability or unwillingness to even
try to present a coherent argument or try to deal with the information
presented, not even to try a "I'll research that and get back to you
later." ALSO AFTER YOU GET ALL KINDS OF SLIPSHOD "REBUKES" often based
on an unbiblical idea that The Holy Spirit provides all context and
understanding to each individual and the plain words of Scripture can't
be pointed out and applied by anyone else but you, AND EXPLICIT
OR IMPLICIT INSULTS, after a while one can get snarky.
to the anti zionist again, your arguments miss his points and go
past them. They also focus so exclusively on the spiritual side,
that I suspect you have a subclinical gnostic tendency, to reject
the physical.
That the two witnesses are NOT the Chruch and Israel is shown by the
way Revelation speaks of them as individuals, who do things like calling
down fire from heaven, eventually being killed and rising in three days.
That however does not prove your point, because for them to return never
to leave again as per Amos can only be now, and to "look on Him Whom they
have pierced" and mourn for Him, and the men and women standing separately
a feature of Orthodox Jewish worship, maybe conservative Judaism also, I
don't know, would again require them to be present when He returns there.
The covenant that is old and done away with is the MOSAIC Covenant, but
the Covenant through Jesus Christ harks back to the ABRAHAMIC Covenant,
"in you shall all the nations be blessed." Christianity is a fulfillment
of the Abrahamic Covenant which also gave Israel land to the Israelite
people.
Christine,
Let me break down the situation with community colleges:
1) Under the current system everyone pays tuition, though some apply for and receive grants (meaning they don’t pay for portions of their tuition) based on income, i.e. ability to pay. Those who exceed a certain income level do not qualify for these grants.
2) Under the proposed system everyone will have their tuition paid by the fed (which means taxpayers) regardless of ability to pay, i.e. it does not matter one’s income, the fed will provide FREE tuition to the student, the only caveat being grade point average (GPA) – which means those who don’t meet these minimum GPA standards will have to pay. Tuition covers college expenses such as teacher’s salaries, day-to-day costs (utilities, e.g.), upkeep, etc. These costs don’t go away under the proposed system; they are simply transferred to the fed (taxpayers), and those students who don’t meet the minimum GPA standard.
3) Assuming no other changes, this provides no incentive to community colleges to keep tuition costs down, as the fed (taxpayers) are going to pay for most students anyway, though we don’t know what is actually in the proposed legislation, i.e., if there are any other provisions covering this.
Arguably those who can show consistently good grades but are unable to pay their won way should be subsidised because their intelligence is an asset to the nation.
The free tuition is a 'come on'.
There is a hook in the bait.
And what a blessed four days it was.........
Agreed, Anon 10:34 AM! How dare she pretend to involve herself in the discussion on Zionism here, whatever side she pretends to be on! Let her get her Hinduism and gnostic NAM done away with first, then she might be taken seriously. What courage, after her sanctimonious rant against Dorothy!
Christine so graciously announces:
"I gave everybody here a break for four days."
There are no words to describe the arrogance gushing from that statement, other than "appalling".
anon 5:52, you so eagerly ascribe falsely various motives, flat out falsely accuse, twist words and arrogantly posture around here, some people don't want to hear from me, so if I ignore them I am arrogant and if I give them a break I am arrogant
sounds like you got a log in your eye you need to deal with. Remember the mote in the eye of the other person? Go through Scripture and find it.
I think you are doing what Christ warned against, and you need to read His words in context that you find using your God given eyes and brain and get right with Jesus Christ.
Craig, here is more succinctly yet detailed stated the origin of "priest" in presbuteros, which is the word STILL used to refer to those ordained to do sacred rituals in the Orthodox Church, via the Latin variant presbyter.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=priest
Old English preost probably shortened from the older Germanic form represented by Old Saxon and Old High German prestar, Old Frisian prestere, all from Vulgar Latin *prester "priest," from Late Latin presbyter "presbyter, elder," from Greek presbyteros (see Presbyterian).
An alternative theory (to account for the -eo- of the Old English word) makes it cognate with Old High German priast, prest, from Vulgar Latin *prevost "one put over others," from Latin praepositus "person placed in charge," from past participle of praeponere (see provost). In Old Testament sense, a translation of Hebrew kohen, Greek hiereus, Latin sacerdos."
in Hebrews, the term archhierus is applied to Jesus Christ our High Priestarchiereus: high priest according to Strong's online, which is a mediative position far more extreme than that of a presbyturos, and the big confusion protestant's have is that they think "mediation" is by the human priest to God The Father on a par with mediation by Jesus.
No. The idea is mediation to Jesus Who mediates for us all. Jesus is also God, remember? so in a sense the priest mediates to God, but it is God The Son not God The Father in the same way Jesus mediates to The Father.
Born again believers do not have nor want and certainly do not need a middleman (priest) anymore. Jesus was the Man in the middle on the cross between heaven above and earth beneath. You do not get it do you? Jesus is my Savior, not my religion. I guess He is another kind of jesus to you....
But go on ahead and upchuck all over this blog again ok because we are dying to hear more from you, Christine........
When James says for the elders to anoint the sick and pray for them, and the sick person's sins be forgiven, aside from the suspicion or revealed knowledge that the illness is sent because of sin,
clearly the presbyters are interceding for the sick sinner with God.
Christine,
I’ve seen that particular etymology over at dictionary.com. But it still doesn’t help your case. Let me explain by going chronologically:
1) In the LXX hiereus (priest) and archhiereus (high priest) were used.
2) Both terms are carried over into the NT, but only with respect to the then-current OT sacrificial system still in place. This includes the period after Christ’s ascension as in the book of Acts when the Jews continued in their tradition after rejecting the Messiah and His atoning once-for-all sacrifice. Jesus is termed the Archiereus in the book of Hebrews only.
3) Importantly, the only time hiereus is used in the NT in reference to Christians at all it is in a collective sense. This is found in the hierateuma (priesthood) of 1 Peter 2:5, 9, and in hieries (priests, i.e. the plural form) of Revelation 1:6, 5:10, and 20:6, the latter of which speaks to our future glory.
4) Each and every time leadership of the Church is referred to the terms episkopos (bishop, overseer) and presbyteros (elder) are used. Absent in these instances are instructions to perform extensive liturgies common to RCC and EO tradition. The closest is presbyteroi (plural) in James 5:14. In fact, there are only 9 instances of episkopos (and its cognates) in the entire NT: Luke 19:44, Acts 1:20, Acts 20:28, Phil 1:1, I Tim 3:1, 1 Tim 3:2, Titus 1:7, 1 Peter 2:12, and 1 Peter 2:25. You can check by the contexts of the latter that none of these describes any elaborate liturgical function akin to an OT priest or RCC/EO “priest”.
Now, even though the term “priest” in used in the EO (and RCC), it is derived ultimately from the Greek presbyteros, not hiereus, as you have illustrated. And, since presbyteros is not used in any sort of ‘priestly’ function (as in OT-type usage) in the NT, to claim presbyteros as the etymological root for “priest” does not help the EO (and RCC) cause. This is because, again, the root word for your usage of “priest” comes from presbyteros, which is never used in any sort of liturgical sense, with James 5:14 the closest NT source, which is itself not describing any elaborate liturgy.
In the NT, all Christians are priests. While some are elders (presbyteros) or bishops/overseers (episkopos), none are termed as anything in between priests (all Christians) and our High Priest. In other words, there aren’t ‘middle priests,’ so to speak, in between Christians and Jesus Christ. He is our One Mediator. While elders and bishops/overseers have authority in individual congregations, with some even over groups of congregations, none act as a mediator between the Christian and Christ.
Christine @ 8:37pm,
Yes, and any one or more of the priesthood of believers can help a wanderer come back to the truth “and cover over a multitude of sins” (James 5:19-20, NIV). Similarly, we can “snatch others from the fire and save them” (Jude 1:23). Moreover we can do ‘spiritual warfare’ without the aid of presbyteros (Ephesians 6:10-18).
the presbyter type elder priests keep the laity type priests on the right track. except when they don't. things are more nuanced than you realize. Its not either or.
The priest isn't essential most of the time and a good one encourage private devotion and prayer to Jesus Christ not just doing this when in church.
all the believers are priests but some believers are more priests than others. And not everyone can do spiritual warfare without help. Not everyone is a Gregory Reid or a Fr. Gabriel Amorth. If you had a problem you couldn't handle and you went to Reid to get prayer and exorcism, though he is not an ordained priest he would be filling that role by something of his God given ability and inclination, at least at that moment.
Christine,
You wrote, all the believers are priests but some believers are more priests than others.
No, some priests are presbyteros or episkopos. The Greek word as used in the NT is defined in BDAG as (and note 2c describing later usage – usage not found in the NT):
1. pert[aining] to being relatively advanced in age, older, old
2. an official (cp. Lat. senator), elder, presbyter
a. among the Jews
b. for members of local councils in individual cities
c. among the Christians… As honorary title: Iren. 4, 26, 5 [Harv. II 238, 3]. The Engl. word ‘priest’ comes fr. πρεσβύτερος [presbyteros] via Lat. presbyter; later Christian usage is largely, if not entirely, responsible for this development
You wrote:
And not everyone can do spiritual warfare without help. Not everyone is a Gregory Reid or a Fr. Gabriel Amorth. If you had a problem you couldn't handle and you went to Reid to get prayer and exorcism, though he is not an ordained priest he would be filling that role by something of his God given ability and inclination, at least at that moment.
Sorry, but what you assert above is not found in Scripture. There are no special exorcists set apart from other Christians described anywhere. The most succinct passage on ‘spiritual warfare’ is found in Eph 6:10-18, as I noted above.
Christine,
You wrote, all the believers are priests but some believers are more priests than others.
No, some priests are presbyteros or episkopos. The Greek word as used in the NT is defined in BDAG as (and note 2c describing later usage – usage not found in the NT):
1. pert[aining] to being relatively advanced in age, older, old
2. an official (cp. Lat. senator), elder, presbyter
a. among the Jews
b. for members of local councils in individual cities
c. among the Christians… As honorary title: Iren. 4, 26, 5 [Harv. II 238, 3]. The Engl. word ‘priest’ comes fr. πρεσβύτερος [presbyteros] via Lat. presbyter; later Christian usage is largely, if not entirely, responsible for this development
You wrote:
And not everyone can do spiritual warfare without help. Not everyone is a Gregory Reid or a Fr. Gabriel Amorth. If you had a problem you couldn't handle and you went to Reid to get prayer and exorcism, though he is not an ordained priest he would be filling that role by something of his God given ability and inclination, at least at that moment.
Sorry, but what you assert above is not found in Scripture. There are no special exorcists set apart from other Christians described anywhere. The most succinct passage on ‘spiritual warfare’ is found in Eph 6:10-18, as I noted above.
Absolutely so, 10:34 AM! Perhaps her imaginary chakras were out of imaginary sorts?
Christine, your attitude is appalling! You talk of your own mother as though she were an 'untouchable' (no surprises there, seeing as you break just about every one of the Ten Commandments on a regular basis, and regarding your Hindu tweaking of Holy Writ combined with your abominable arrogance and hubris.)
11:39 AM, what's more is that she now claims not only to be Danish, Swedish, and "WASP"(more like a termite aT this blog and certainly no book-worm), but now she's apparently Jewish too (at her website 'Politically Unclassifiable', where she refers to herself tellingly as 'infowolf'): it wouldn't surprise me if she were to claim to be Anastasia of Russia next!
Yes, 5:52 PM, simply put but spot on (though she prefers unnecessary convolution and obfuscation herself)! She is arrogant to the extreme and appalling with it: away for four days and back for goodness knows how long to ruin this blog with her endless gnostic and wiccan like ravings as she hogs and hogs and hogs! She should concentrate on getting that NAM and gnostic mote out of her own eye first!
anon 8:36 I have figured out enough about my biological so called mother to know she was very evil and into some kind of folk witchcraft and if not full on initiated then what some might call having witch blood, a built in instinct and ability. I did find at least one thing that showed she was doing it on a physical not only mental basis.
As for my pedigree, you confuse general categories of ancestry with individual identity (anastasia indeed!) and either you are a shameless false accuser by habit, or you are very confused in general.
Are you a charismatic by any chance?
And I am "certainly no book-worm" how would you know? I was reading at TWO years old and the only reason I don't have a degree is my math block (and not wanting to associate with the sort of (mentally speaking) trash that went to Stanford University anyway.
I have no russian ancestry except Ashkenazic Jewish, my father's father, and his mother was Danish and Swedish and baptized Lutheran but her mother decided to mess with Christian Science and got her into that, but she gradually moved back to Christianity and was taking communion from a Presbyterian minister at the nursing home before she died.
on the other side of the family was what used to be called White Anglo Saxon Protestant (with an undercurrent of God knows what here and there), with at least one ancestor involved the American Revolution. Two categories of witch were present in the family just to judge by the personalities.
That is my physical ancestry. If you want I can drag up the whole pedigree names and dates of birth and death, on the WASP side back a few generations into England in the 1700s.
If you knew anything about gnostic or wiccan ravings, you wouldn't be falsely accusing me of doing them, or perhaps you like to accuse. And I don't go around routinely breaking the Ten Commandments.
Craig, a priest is defined as one who does sacred rituals of the religion he represents, see wikipedia. God is not a God of confusion but of order and ordliness in a meeting involves someone in charge. Justin Martyr refers to the president of the meeting doing the Eucharistic prayers, this was normative in Justin's time c. AD 150 when he wrote, and prior when he was learning. The people he learned from had their practices, from their immediate predecessors, who would have been taught by an Apostle or by someone taught by an Apostle.
as for spiritual warfare, have you ever had to deal with someone who was full on possessed? I have not but Greg Reid has and I suggest you read his experiences. It is a rare phenomenon, but where he lives in the heart of Mexican folk witchcraft and more classic satanism at times, Mexico-Texas border counties, you can expect more overt situations than you might normally run into.
The Scripture doesn't have to declare a special set apart class of exorcists, it is obvious in that Paul had to write anything to sort anything out, after personally teaching the converts, that there were carnal Christians whose ability to deal with supernatural manifestations would be questionable. There is also a list of gifts of The Holy Spirit which incl. discernment of spirits, not something everyone has.
There is no Scriptural basis for the altar call or the tent meeting or the more extreme Calvinist doctrines either.
Christine, with all due respect, you really do need to be born again by The Spirit of God.
The scriptures are not open to you and that is why you do not see the truth being told you that Craig (and sometimes others) are conveying.
I'm praying that you will be humble enough to receive what is said to you. By miles you are missing what the Word of God is really saying about the priesthood of each born again believer. What a true standing in Jesus Christ is before God the Father.
You are trying to naturally discern with the flesh of your mind what is only revealed by the Lord's Spirit. You must have a very controlling personality--even with God--seeking to one-up everything and pretty much all the time. I find that very sad for you.
I would quote the passages to you to read yourself but I do not want that kind of exchange with you as you would pick it apart to satisfy your own mind. That is not what the word of God is for. All hearts should bow there.
I pray that you will let the Lord really speak to you and he will reveal what is directly in the way of your understanding of what a real relationship with Jesus is. You have yet to show that you understand this. Only then will you know what I'm referring to.
I was once, where you are today...
anon 11:30
"I was once, where you are today..."
The priesthood of all believers is not refuted by the presence of a next level ordained priesthood functioning elders under the high priesthood of Jesus, and yes, it is undertaught and not well understood by the average RC and EO, but it is there Biblically and in their earlier at least writings.
what you don't get, is that I once was where you are now. And I came to this position precisely by reading The Bible cover to cover over short enough time to keep it all in context and by doing sola scriptura for real, not bothering with the interpreters, only looking for language help and archaeology and history,
is how I came to my present situation, that and some practical experience with Holy Water and wanting to be closer to the source of reliable Holy Water.
Christine your religious pride is astounding.(and proof you have no relationship with Jesus)
" some practical experience with Holy Water and wanting to be closer to the source of reliable Holy Water."
Pretty tight with your "resident seer" aren't you....(can't get much higher than that right?... ;)
...WOW...
I already knew about Holy Water, the only thing my resident seer provided was the cue about Orthodox being better than RC but both work.
I could feel an improvement in the place and myself. When I drank some EO Holy Water I felt some tentacled things leave me.
Christine, Luke 11:24-26 could be you.
Yes, Anonymous 1:17 PM,
Luke 11:24-26 just about sums her up!
"some tentacled things".... Christine, are you on any medication we should know about, so as to better understand you?
Infowolf at 12:42 PM,
did it have baby squid, cuttlefish and octupi in it?
I know an old gnostic who swallowed a lie,
To sell us her lie oh how she does try,
We ain't gonna buy!
Be it from a witch doctor near Lima or Accra,
Or some New Age take on Hindu so-called chakras,
Aliens on Mars or fables of Nibiru,
Boy does she cling to things most untrue!
She swallowed the lie of chakras and auras,
of ether and whether it's served with pakoras,
she defended kabbalah then went for the throat,
of a seasoned poster whilst she left in her mote,
she blamed her dear mother for being a vampire,
the woman's insane, a blog pain, oh how does it transpire: she's a hypocrite and a liar,
We ain't gonna buy!
She posts and she posts and she posts and she posts.... Àaaaaaaah!
She rejects the power of our Lord and Savior, She thinks it's a drink that gives deliverance its flavor,
We hope she'll be humble and do all that this blog a favor: Perhaps she'll go!
I know an old gnostic who swallowed a lie,
To sell us her lie oh how she does try,
We ain't gonna buy!
Be it from a witch doctor near Lima or Accra,
Or some New Age take on Hindu so-called chakras,
Aliens on Mars or fables of Nibiru,
Boy does she cling to things most untrue!
She swallowed the lie of chakras and auras,
of ether and whether it's served with pakoras,
she defended kabbalah then went for the throat,
of a seasoned guest whilst she left in her mote,
she blamed her dear mother for being a vampire,
the woman's insane, a blog pain, oh how does it transpire: she's a hypocrite and a liar,
We ain't gonna buy!
She posts and she posts and she posts and she posts.... Àaaaaaaah!
She rejects the power of our Lord and Savior, She thinks it's a drink that gives deliverance its flavor,
We hope she'll be humble and do all at this blog a favor: Perhaps she'll go!
She tests the patience of physicist and Craig,
with long-winded babblings obfuscating and vague,
She clogs and she hogs as she bogs down the blog,
with coarse words and thoughts absurd, she sees herself as a sage,
Perhaps she'll repent if she's any sense, or at least the old beast will our long patience recompense: let's hope she goes!
...she's certainly putting out the tentacles!
No quite so, 4:46 PM, incidentally Ezekiel 36 should be read in context (Ezekiel 33 to 37) and does not match the Zionist Anti-Christ atrocities happening today!
In no way does God as written down by Ezekiel sanction disobedience! Chapters 33 to 37 were written at the time of the Babylonian captivity. At that time, there was a remnant of Jews who remained in Israel, amongst the destruction of ruined cities and destroyed fields and landscapes. These people tried to reason and bargain with God that the land, through Abraham, had been promised by God to them. Sadly these people were living on the fumes of rewritten history, and God therefore wanted them to remember His Ordinances (not to eat meat with blood in it, not to worship Idols, etc.), in no way does God ever want any to perish but He will not sanction disobedience! It is a reminder that we ourselves shouldn't lean on our own understanding but should obey God's will. In no way, therefore, does God ever entertain disobedience, and in no way can Ezekiel 36when read in context be squeezed into a modern Zionist interpretation!
www.thewordway.com/weekly-thoughts/149
Conclusion: modern Zionism is UNBIBLICAL!
10:13 AM
You not only misrepresent God's heart in His redemption plan to bring the jews to Jesus in this very way he is working today but you also put God in a box. His ways are not yours-or mine.
They have been under punishment by being out of that land-by doing the things they did that made God move them out of it, for how long? A long long time. (did you forget there was a holocaust??) And he is not done with finishing the transgression, and take note! this takes place in. the. land. but the end of it is coming into sight and the jews will look on Him that was pierced. You leave out whole sections of the bible to hold your view.
You are not one bit convincing because you neglect so many promises still outstanding with those people..they are and will yet be His miracle, so I'll pass.
(God will resolve this just like He promised. Israel is not replaced nor forsaken.)
Dear 10.13am,
You grumble that I leave out whole sections of the Bible but I am not making a systematic exposition of scripture, just looking into whether it provides a basis for modern Zionism.
I do not agree with your view of Ezekiel 36:24-6 but rather than engage in a lengthy debate about 3 verses I'd rather ask you how would knock down the prophecies of Amos, Isaiah and Zechariah that I explained above point to modern Zionism, and above all the Abrahamic covenant.
I do not think that God is happy with the Jewish people while they overwhelmingly deny His Son, but He remains in covenant with them because of his promise to Abraham. That combination of facts explains why they are back in the Holy Land yet getting a hard time from the Muslims.
"That combination of facts explains why they are back in the Holy Land yet getting a hard time from the Muslims."
11:16 AM
Absolutely. Thank you for spelling that out mentioning (repeating) the prophets who wrote it and all part of prophecy that 10:13 is disregarding. (or blind about or deceived about I don't know which but the omission is glaring...)
What you have written, anons 10:59 A.M., 11:16 A.M., and 11:30 A.M., doesn't refute what I have written. The first is an false accusation, as in no way do I misrepresent God's Heart, you do. God is no respecter of persons, no racist and neither am I.
Your attempts to resort to base emotion is no refutation. I am not a Holocaust denier nor do I prefer any person or group over another because of their race( How about you?).
God's ways are not your ways either. What I have written is in harmony with the Holy Scriptures and with love. If you want to know how then for starters revise all that has been written, with Biblical reference and allusion above, on this page. Grumbling? Lol, I have joy in my heart. What do you have in yours?
Dear 5.33pm, This is 11.16am (I am not 10.59am or 11.30am although I am i accord with them). you say that what you have written about modern Israel is in accord with the scriptures but in fact all you have done is provide an alternative view of the Ezekiel prophecy to which I referred at 7.35am above, while ignoring the Amos prophecy, the Isaiah prophecy, the Zechariah prophecy and the covenant with Abraham which continues unlike the Mosaic. If you wish to claim that what you say is consistent with scripture then you need to engage with those.
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