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| How and why did they come up with the name? "New Age" is specialized terminology. I would appreciate any insights and/or links to similar mainstream news usage of the usual esoteric terminology.
I spoke in Peoria, Illinois for a week back in the 1980s. I was well received there and still hear occasionally from old Peoria friends. My condolences to that region and others affected by the terrible tornado weather this immediate past weekend. Two hundred fifty thousand people are without power in the Detroit area. We fortunately escaped the high winds with our own power intact, but given what has happened in the Philippines and other parts of the Midwest the past two weeks, I can hardly complain.
Stay tuned and stay safe!
CONSTANCE
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Monday, November 18, 2013
Definitely in our face -- everywhere "NEW AGE"
I subscribe to Google news report alerts on earthquakes. This just came in my box. I blinked even more at the news source than the earthshaking object of the reporting: "THE NEW AGE" aka "TNA". Dorothy's right. It's EVERYWHERE!
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1 – 200 of 213 Newer› Newest»Learning more about the publication which, inter alia, gives generous sympathetic coverage to issues of Greenpeace and homosexuality:
The New Age newspaper is a national daily newspaper, owned and operated by TNA Media (Pty) Ltd. TNA Media was established in June 2010 and the first publication of The New Age was on 6 December 2010.
The New Age covers news from all nine provinces, along with national events, Op-Ed columns, politics, Africa and International news, sports, business, entertainment, lifestyle, science and technology. It is affordable (R3.50), relevant, easy to read and to the point. Our website is http://www.thenewage.co.za and mobile site is http://www.thenewage.co.za/mobi/
The New Age comes in 24-32 full colour pages printed in the International broadsheet format. The paper is printed in three different locations and distributed by South Africa’s leading distributor, reaching all corners of the country.
Our goal is to focus on the positive side of news, and we aim for constructive criticism of our leaders in our newspaper.
Press Council
The New Age is a member of the South African Press Council and subscribes to the South African Press Code, which calls for excellence in journalistic practice and ethics, and reporting that is truthful, accurate, fair and balanced. The South African Press Council, the Press Ombudsman and appeals panel are a self-regulatory mechanism set up by the print media to provide impartial, expeditious and cost-effective adjudication to settle disputes between publications and the public. If you feel The New Age does not live up to the code, you may register a complaint with the Press Ombudsman.
Address: 2nd Floor, 7 St Davids’s Park, St David’s Place, Parktown, 2193
Telephone: 011 484 3612/8
Fax: 011 484 3619
Email: ombudsman@presscouncil.org.za
Website: www.presscouncil.org.za
One of their recent articles giving very favorable coverage to Deep Pit Cobra, oooops, "Depak Chopra" and "Meditation" -- New Age Journal couldn't have done much better than this one:
While meditation has been associated with decreased stress and enhanced well-being, its immediate effect on the heart remains unclear, scientists say.
To help demystify matters, researchers at the Scripps Translational Science Institute (STSI) in California have teamed up with meditation guru Dr. Deepak Chopra in a new study.
"Little is known about the immediate effects of meditation on the heart and vascular system, partly because of the difficulty collecting research quality data through conventional means," said Dr. Steve Steinhubl, Scripps heath director of digital medicine. But now researchers have a new tool: "Wireless devices offer new ways to track blood pressure, heart rate, body temperature and other vital signs in a more discreet and nondisruptive way."
The research team has already conducted the study, but the results won't be ready until next year. Forty participants, aged 20 to 72, were involved in the study, with half being experienced meditators and half never having meditated before. Chopra, a bestselling author, led them in a weeklong meditation retreat at his center in Carlsbad, California. During meditation sessions, subjects wore wireless health devices that tracked heart rate, skin temperature, and respiration.
The STSI study might for the first time demonstrate the immediate influence of meditation on blood pressure and markers of stress, and eventually guide better and more individualized treatments of high blood pressure, chronic pain or other health conditions, said STSI director Dr. Eric Topol.
The team says that their work is in response to flaws in previous studies, as reported in a 2007 report by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, which found problems in most of the 813 meditation studies that were reviewed, with the authors unable to draw "firm conclusions" about the role of meditation in health care.
"For thousands of years people have practiced meditation to experience inner calm, relieve stress and cultivate balance or what is known in modern medicine as homeostasis, which is the body's ability to regulate its internal conditions and create a healthy, stable environment," said Chopra. "We're excited about the opportunity to use wireless technology to gain more scientific data about meditation's tangible benefits for health and well-being."
To help spread the good word about meditation, this month Chopra has teamed up with media powerhouse Oprah Winfrey for a three-week meditation training dubbed "Desire and Destiny," offering free daily guided audio meditations via an interactive online program.
-Relaxnews
Constance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Age
A british started as a Christian Socialist rag in 1894,
A. R. Orage ran it from 1907 to 1922. Pub. ceased
1938 perhaps it started the use of the term.
originally social and political it shifted to mysticism
and lost quality and readership. "According to a
Brown University press release, "The New Age
helped to shape modernism in literature and the
arts from 1907 to 1922" heh, I suppose it helped
the surrealist movement?
http://modjourn.org/render.php?view=mjp_object&id=1158589415603817
discusses this.
more....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Age_(South_African_newspaper)
http://thenewage.co.za/
http://www.newageindustries.com/
http://www.newageindustrial.com/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/art-news/10457590/Tate-Britain-redesign-heralds-new-age-of-philanthropy-Lord-Browne-says.html
http://www.garageappeal.com/newageproducts.aspx?gclid=COHrheq-77oCFUNBQgod9HAAhQ
http://www.sky.fm/newage
Interesting thing I stumbled on, which says something about Serbian pretentions to Orthodoxy in the process, i.e., occultic folk syncretistic Christianity and Karadzic's own background
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26karadzic-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Christine,
A. R. Orage's THE NEW AGE is well known. This is a South African publication. A. R. Orage was a dedicated Theosophist close to Madame Blavatsky. I believe he gave an oration at her funeral. He was also an activist in the Social Credit Movement which is basically about a cashless economy but too many naive Canadian Christians confuse as "a Christian movement."
Constance
"SewAge" as promoted, inter alia, by "Deep Pit Cobra" (Chopra)??
bitcoin - probably something similar will be the end time currency.
bitcoin is not anonymous, just hard to track. Every transaction is recorded and placed on the "block chain" where organizations with supercomputers can determine every single transaction made.
To 7:17 pm. Thank you! I heard a discussion today on Al Jazeera America and made a note to research "Bit Coin". Thanks for the information and timely reminder!
Constance
USA Today article on "Bitcoin"
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/18/senate-holds-first-bitcoin-hearing/3628523/
or
http://tinyurl.com/opm9p5m
Constance
A. R. Orage and the "Social Crediters" would love "Bitcoin".
Constance
Major C. H. Douglas was the major original proponent of Social Credit to the best of my present recollection.
Constance
Looks like a real and present danger with "bitcoin" is that they would need tracking of the users. Wonder how they might accomplish that?? Hmmm? "Digital Angel", "Applied Digital Solutions", drones, "internet of everything"????
Scary!
Constance
Hi Constance,
I hope you are listening to Al Jazeera America in a "I'm listening to the enemy to see what they're saying" mode, and not relying on them for good, accurate and truthful information. Kinda like you'd listen to a speech by Solana, or Creme - that's how much you should have your guard up when listening to AJA. (Same goes for listening to RT - Russia Today.)
As much as Satan would like us to believe he is omniscient, he is not. Only God has omniscience. We are protected to the extent we are trusting in God through Jesus Christ. God is in control of everything. He is allowing all this apostasy right now to see who really wants to love Him and Jesus. That is really the truth.
Human Mysticism is trying to go to God straightway, but not going through Jesus. Mysticism leaves Jesus out of the equation. It is rebellion; albeit so polite. It is a mood altering experience. It's like drugs, where the mind is weak and susceptible, believing we are all "gods." I know because I've been in the confusion of it. The feeling of self-exaltation is a wonderful "feeling", and is very seductive. But it will, as all Humanism, come to it's natural conclusion of self-destruction. We are witnessing this happening all over the world. Television and twitter; all that stuff, is spreading the gospel of self-deception.
The only daily antidote I have from the daily barrage of seduction and lies, telling me I should be afraid, is to Read God's Word, and really try to understand it. Then to practice what it says.
I am not a "holy Joe". I am an average flawed human. I fall off my horse frequently, but not habitually, as I used to. I really try to do my best. I get back up on my horse and thank God!
The KJV Bible is the only one.
There are accurate concordances that allow us to go back to the original languages and see the translation better.
The New Age Movement has brought us all the other Bible versions: NIV, American Bible, Revised Standard Version, etc. Many of them have taken "God" out of the Bible very subtly; it's diluted to where those who are not yet knowledgeable are fooled. No real oil for the lamps. Kind of like GMO, only pertaining to The Bible. This, too is apostasy, only quite underhanded. Quite a high price to pay. "The Scribes" still are sitting in the seat of Moses. It is still their time.
Hope I did not get off topic too much. The New Age is in my freeze-dried coffee, in my "Special K" breakfast cereal. Humanism tells me I can do the day without God; that if I try hard enough, I can be "god". And then it tells me if I don't quite make it to "god", there is something wrong with me. I sometimes trip all over the New Age Movement as I go from one room to the next.
The effect is molecular.
Thanks for listening.
LEIGH
One other quick comment:
Regarding the story of meditation and the possible problem with the heart, it must be a slow news day for them.
The use of engaging a possible trauma (about the heart), and then implying doubt about it by being vague and technical... ridiculous!
Hegelian Dialect!
Of course, then Depak Chopra comes on the stage, wearing his flowing literary cape, blowing in the "wind", and gives faulty explanations. But he is on the case, and will, of course, save us. Perhaps his book sales are down and he needs some attention.
The cultists really want us to doubt ourselves, don't they? They really think we are stupid.
Have a good day.
LEIGH
To the Physicist...this is totally off subject, but without your TV license, which being American I don't quite comprehend, how do you intend to watch Doctor Who? I believe its 50th anniversary show is coming up. 50 years. I know, he makes time travel way too easy, but it's still one of the best British import to the world. Maybe there are new age themes, but it's still a cool show.
Doctor Who?
Physicist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who
Thanks Christine, but that was a satirical comment at 0742! I can remember many of the earlier actors who played the Doctor - I even saw filming of one episode in part of Cambridge - and I prefer those guys, so missing out on today's doctors is not a huge loss for me.
Physicist
Physicist:
The only Dr. Who that I've seen much of is Tam Baker's, which I really liked. The local PBS station played all that really cool stuff back in the 80s. Shows like Red Dwarf, Monty Python, and the original Second City TV (which is Canadian). Lots of great humor and satire! Or should I say humour....
That should be *Tom* Baker.....
Marko, it was Tom Baker whom I saw playing the Doctor when an episode was filmed in Cambridge! Physicist
Good message here for all of us "fighting" NA.
judahslionblogspot.com
It is the second Wednesday November 20 2013 post titled 'Moral Pagans
anon 10:24, EXCELLENT!
LEIGH,
Your comment about the devil not being
omniscient is very important.
In fact I don't believe he can hear our
thoughts at all. Therefore, he can only
work with what we give him by saying
things out loud.
I've decided to be more careful about what
I say, which is always good advice anyway.
So, I'm going to praise God and thank him
out loud every day.
Bless the Lord, Oh my soul!
Paul, you don't need omniscience to read minds. Even a non telepathic human can do a good similitude just watching microgestures and microexpressions, which most of us don't notice.
But that said, watching what one says is always good. Jesus said that we will be accountable for every word we speak.
http://www.amazon.com/Temple-Themes-Christian-Worship-Margaret/dp/0567032760
Now, there are some serious problems, but what is important is the documentation of the linkage of Christian worship early to medieval and Orthodox style, with the worship in the Jewish Temple.
My original post involved three books, but the problems were more obvious in them. Clearly the writer is lacking even in some basic information like "Lord" when in all caps means YHWH was written in the Hebrew, and thinks its translation as YHWH is a mistake in one modern translation, and sloppiness in other things.
But the detailed points about the origin of Christian liturgical style is important. Two other books deal with this but have the problems more obvious and confusing to readers who can't just skim over these so I deleted the original post. This is the least problematic.
The historical issue however is solid. Usually it is a brief small comment in some EO sources. This is much more extensive.
Constance, how is the power situation in Detroit doing, is it all back on now?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/12/tech/innovation/google-throat-tattoo/index.html
-----------------------------
MI Senate Bill 636
http://states.aarp.org/aarp-designates-key-vote-on-telecommunications-bill/
that MI bill could be a real problem. Once you have a technology that people have come to depend on, you have a different situation than just free market whatnot. While there are some principles in civil law suits that would go against the power companies making such trouble, who can afford to go to court?
This becomes comparable to someone who owns the land through which flows a river deciding to redirect their segment to away from dependent users downstream. Not something that should be allowed.
Govt. intervention and direction is far older than "socialism" and even played a role in the development of our infrastructure incl. rail and so forth. The Patent Office itself is a case in point. This eliminated the motive to hide inventions and discoveries.
I disagree with that book, Christine; the early church was persecuted and was founded on the synagogue system, which is how the Jews organised themselves when they were persecuted in Babylon. Temple worship, in contrast, was part of an institutional system. The church became institutional after Constantine, but as that began to happen 300 years after Christ it cannot be called the early church.
Without insisting on sola scriptura I believe the absence of liturgy in the NT is deliberate, as the church often met in private homes for prayer, praise and the breaking of bread where formal liturgy is out of place. Also, there is a wide variety of cultural styles of worship across the Christians of the world, and to impose a liturgy laden with the culture of the declining Roman Empire is a straitjacket. Finally, there is no word-for-word liturgy for Temple worship in the Old Testament, so any such must be "Jewish tradition" - of which institutional churches are traditionally suspicious. Why then must that be a model for churches?
Thanks 2:27. History bears out everything you are referring to. As liturgies formed, the by-product resulted in the temptation to organize the Holy Spirit right out the church, taking on man-made traditions and so began to be opposite of the freedom that the early church knew of, being Spirit led. Many tares began to be sown in the true wheat crop from then on. The old pagan admixture to the compromised church led to the new age of our times, hand in hand with the world. Come out from among them has always been the call of Christ.
When the Jews returned from Babylon they rebuilt the Temple. Jesus The Apostles and all early converts were Jews who were used to the Temple. the synagogue was an extension of the Temple and not without a kind of liturgical quality though it involved no priesthood.
With that background, it makes more sense to demand proof there was NOT any liturgy in early church worship, than to demand proof there was.
However. The Holy Liturgy is not "laden with the culture of the declining Roman Empire."
here is the text. tell me what is declining Roman Empire culture about it.
http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/liturgy/liturgy.html
there are minor variations and additions per times in church year.
of course this is a product of development over time, out of roots that existed before. This is the most commonly used liturgy, there is one by St. Basil the Great, and one attributed to St. James The Apostle himself, all very similar.
the frozen quality means you get no doctrinal innovations possible. This could occur in a sermon, but things in the Liturgy if heard in your own language and paid attention to, would contradict such. Precisely this problem was why an earlier looser style was made more stable.
Also, NT is written not to tell us how to worship but who to worship and how to live and think.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/heb8.pdf
Heb. 8:6 "But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry," the word here is leitourgias
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/act13.pdf
Acts. 13:2 "As they ministered to the Lord," the word translated ministered is leitourgountOn
obviously this is not the diakonos related words for ministry but the word "liturgy" comes from.
and these indications from the NT itself, http://www.ottilie.org/blog/?p=321
Three evidences of retension of Jewish Temple procedures in EO services.
1. The proper pronunciation of "amen" is not ah-MEN but ah-MEEN. if you catch a Jewish service or prayers being said, you will hear it. And you will hear it in the more traditional EO services like the Russian, though many Antiochian and Greek with a lot of American converts in it say ah-men in English.
2. Both Jews and Orthodox Christians put crowns on the heads of the couple during the wedding ceremony.
3. Both Jews in synagogue and EO do a procession (Jews with Torah and Christians with Gospels) and kiss the Holy Scripture book.
These are the most outstanding, but they certainly show a continuity of style.
Luther kept the liturgical style of worship, what we in the USA think of as "protestantism" is actually Calvin and Zwingli and other extremists.
Dear 3:44 p.m.,
What does all that have to do with following Christ, as He was the pattern for worship in and of Himself as He walked in human flesh like the 4 Gospels tell us? Church, in the by and large today is a long way from that now. Became to "churchy" (your model) for it's own good. Too formal and pre-scripted (according to man's thinking) was not Jesus' Way.
As I noted, the NT was not written to teach you HOW to worship but WHO to worship. There is both formal and informal praying displayed.
The nonliturgical scene can be as ungodly or dry as the liturgical scene. Both have adherents who do not follow Christ, like those He referred to who call Him Lord, Lord, but do not do as He says and do not do the words of The Father.
and the nonliturgical scene allows the development of the illusions and worse of the charismatic scene.
Did you know who first taught that you must talk in tongues and receive this by having hands laid on you and you are then to say whatever comes to you?
An early gnostic heretic. This bit out of Irenaeus AGAINST HERESIES is quite an eye opener (c. AD 180). As he pointed out, it is presumptuous.
And all the plethoral of New Age infiltration in the churches now, would have a harder time at it if things were a tad more structured.
As for contemplative prayer, this kind of imagining and passively expecting strange manifestations is precisely what many EO elders warn against.
http://www.pravmir.com/article_545.html
Dear 4:15, Point taken, and that is true that it can be in either setting, that the emphasis is lost. The point I'm making is that the much bigger temptation is in very formalities that "churchiness" prescribes. That is what gets right in the way too often of the Very Who is to be worshiped. The modern church across all denominational lines have failed to keep the real focus on Christ but that started to go mainstream back when "church" began it's liturgical formalities ages ago.
It was already there in St. Paul's and St. James' time. Read their Epistles to address this. Liturgical formalities are not just empty formalities. lex credendo lex orandi, what you pray you believe.
Formal morning and evening prayers can include any addition that crosses your mind. The immediate "Lord Jesus Christ help!" type prayer has as long a history in EO as among any frontier evangelists.
"When the Jews returned from Babylon they rebuilt the Temple. Jesus The Apostles and all early converts were Jews who were used to the Temple."
Yes. but the Temple was obsolete after the Cross, wasn't it?
"the synagogue was an extension of the Temple and not without a kind of liturgical quality though it involved no priesthood."
It was not an extension of the Temple at all; what do you mean? No animal sacrifices went on in synagogues. The original function of synagogues, in Babylon, was prayer, praise and scripture study. (To these the church added Communion.) No doubt there was liturgy in stynagogues but it didn't make it into the Old Testament and this means that variation was allowed by God, does it not?
"With that background, it makes more sense to demand proof there was NOT any liturgy in early church worship, than to demand proof there was."
I'll not play tit-for-tat; either there wasn't liturgy, or there was liturgy but God didn't see fit to include it in the New Testament, raising the question Why. I welcome your answer.
"Also, NT is written not to tell us how to worship but who to worship"
Which is precisely my point; by not commanding a liturgy it gives each culture the freedom to worship in its own way. If you think that liturgy prevents heresy then look at church history. As for the culture of the declining Roman Empire... Of the liturgy you quote, much of it would have been chanted, at a pitch which was determined to be the resonant frequency of the large building it was chanted in, but now the chanting has become an end in itself. The liturgy was so extensive that it imparted quite a lot of scripture to illiterate persons - a good thing, but not necessary in countries where most people can now read the scriptures for themselves. Priestly vestments simply resemble the attire of the wealthy of 17 centuries ago, what does that have to do with following the way of Christ in the 21st century?
The Temple being irrelevant after the Cross is not relevant, because it shows a model of how to worship YHWH.
The synagogue was an extension of the Temple like a prayer chapel is an extension of a full fledged church. Of course no animal sacrifices were done.
The Psalms many of them were written for liturgical use.
Priestly vestments of the Orthodox have specific meanings about them. The bishop's attire and crown is that of the Byzantine emperor, a rule established by the Turks, and taken up by imitation throughout Orthodoxy over time.
The point about liturgy is it being to the glory of God.
BTW we are getting increasingly illiterate in this country, haven't you noticed? A result of the dumbing down Charlotte Iserbyt talks about. People get graduated from high school who are barely literate. Perhaps there would be a role for this sort of thing in future.
God is more interested in godliness than formal correctness and hypocritical performance of worship. But godliness and expression of worship with actions of the body (crossing and bowing and full prostrations) as well as words are hardly incompatible.
"The Temple... shows a model of how to worship YHWH."
Yes certainly - and I agree that many of the Psalms were composed or at least used in Temple - but there isn't a liturgy prescribed in the OT for Temple worship that has the iron inflexibility of Orthodox liturgy, is there? Every word and motion prescribed exactly for every service on every day of the year. The idea of laying all that stuff on Amazonian Indians who have just received the gospel (and the NT on mp3 player, nowadays)) makes me sick.
"godliness and expression of worship with actions of the body (crossing and bowing and full prostrations) as well as words are hardly incompatible."
Also agreed. But the idea that those things are COMPULSORY when there is no mention in scripture or tradition of even Jesus doing them is a denial of legitimate freedom in the Spirit.
"what does that have to do with following the way of Christ in the 21st century?"
Exactly.
Thanks 5:55
1. the rigid fixity of the liturgy in Orthodoxy, developed precisely to stop the incursions of heresy and prelest or spiritual deception (can originate from the flesh or the devil). It was a protective measure.
2. Jesus and The Apostles worshipped in the Temple NT says, so did the rest of the Christians who were Jews and local to it, until the Temple authorities kicked them out.
3. Since when does what century we are in have anything to do with whether something is relevant or not?
And it IS done lots of places in the 20th century, and Lutherans kept a lot of the liturgy.
Even in a baptist church and some others, there is a line "lift up your hearts to the Lord" "we lift them up to the Lord" "it is proper and right to praise Him" this goes back almost exactly unchanged to the first centuries of church liturgy.
Democrats flip flop on nuclear option.
www.tedmontgomery.com
Nov 21 post
http://www.ibtimes.com/new-tpp-talks-decried-most-secretive-discussions-trans-pacific-partnership-date-1482970
Anon@6:50 and 6:44 p.m.
The liturgy is about worshipping Christ and is focused on him.
The liturgy is the reason why we can put aside our culture and political differences and show up to worship, because the focus is not on us or what we want.
It's on something higher than ourselves.
You seem to set up a false opposition, between subjective and objective. The liturgy balances both, because it prevents the congregation from going over the edge on any one side.
The cross is the centre-piece.
The right/left divide in present day Christianity would have been alien to the Apostles since it goes back to only the late 18th or 19th century.
Yep, I don't come here to be converted to some weird brand of orthodox, so I guess I have no business left here either.
http://ourfuture.org/20130823/congress-public-waking-up-to-tpp-threat?gclid=CIGmtenT-roCFaE1Qgodr0EA6A
more on the trans pacific partnership not really a trade agreement
elevates "a corporate-council above American sovereignty," and allows corporations to sue governments for lost profits if the govts. make laws about safety, pollution, human rights etc. that interfere with profits.
"The liturgy is about worshipping Christ and is focused on him. "
Agreed, 9.45pm! My main point is not to criticise particular liturgies but to insist that they must not be compulsory. Some people demand a single liturgy in every congregation worldwide - but disagree over what should be in it it, which rather proves my point.
“It matters not how you worship but what you worship” - Lactantius, a 3rd/4th century church father (Divine Institutes, 4.28).
anon 6:10, true. but the point is that the usual take on the matter by American Protestants is that liturgical worship is bogus and maybe even only a little over a thousand years old.
Then there is the Constantine myth I used to believe, used by Protestants to diss liturgicalists of all stripes, and by atheists and pagans and heretics to undermine the legitimacy of the New Testament canon.
"the rigid fixity of the liturgy in Orthodoxy, developed precisely to stop the incursions of heresy and prelest or spiritual deception"
That was the function of Creeds, but there are literally hundreds of things you have to do in Orthodox liturgy that obviously have nothing to do with preventing heresy. What they do is promote an air of exclusivity that is entirely contrary to the Spirit of the New Testament. Every church has its traditions, but going on to insist that it is the One True Liturgy IS a problem.
Suppose a tradition grows up in one congregation of handing out a chocolate to each person after church. Fine. That church then thrives and produces church plants all over the place. Fine. They hand out chocolates too. Fine. They see that they hand out chocolates and are are also successful church movement and start to require chocolates to be handed out in newer congregations. Not fine. And several centuries later it has become part of the liturgy and ritual chanting is done before and afterwards, while the chocolate has to be brought out on a silver plate of a specific design by someone wearing particular robes... This is all that is going on here.
"Then there is the Constantine myth I used to believe, used by Protestants to diss liturgicalists of all stripes."
Who is dissing who here? Arguments about Constantine are used by SOME protestants for certain purposes. People who think in hierarchies cannot comprehend that protestantism might be different. Moreover you don't say what myth you mean.
anon 6:29 is your chocolate on a plate supposed to refer to the Eucharist? Justin Martyr writing long before Constantine affirmed the peculiar quality of the Eucharist, that it is the flesh and blood of Christ after the prayers have been done over it. St. Paul's warnings about partaking unworthily point to something being present that can be offended.
anon 6:35 the Constantine myth, is that Constantine remade the church, changed doctrines, made it the official and required religion of the Empire, changed the sabbath to Sunday (that was a local western small council that confused the two) brought all kinds of paganism into Christianity (and at this point the neopagans argue our faith is nothing but thefts from paganism because of a few superficial similarities), brought the use of candles, lamps and incense in, and that the Nicene Council dictated the canon (and at this point various people argue that heretical documents of way post Apostolic provenance were "banned from the Bible" and we were all lied to and that the legitimate Gospels were rewritten to claim a divinity for Jesus Christ that supposedly He didn't claim and so forth).
Now, as for fixity of liturgy, while you can argue legitimately that there might be room made for more modifications, this fixity also protected doctrine.
Instead of complaining of fixity, the issue should be, what exactly is in it?
THE TRANS PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP SHOULD BE PAID ATTENTION TO AND PRAYED ABOUT.
THIS PLUS NAFTA PLUS THE PLANNED NORTH AMERICAN UNION
is an obvious step towards a one world govt. unite huge regions, then unite the united huge segments.
Whether the antichrist is too far in the future to relate to all this or not, it is damn serious!
Some congressmen are already upset by this, support them. write your congressmen to oppose the TPP.
There are both traditionally left and traditionally right reasons to oppose it, and like Agenda 21, it is getting left - right combined opposition.
The very corporate elites who have been desiging the NWO for generations, are running the TPP.
"anon 6:29 is your chocolate on a plate supposed to refer to the Eucharist?"
No. In my ALLEGORY I said that it was done after the service.
"as for fixity of liturgy, while you can argue legitimately that there might be room made for more modifications, this fixity also protected doctrine."
That is your claim, but it doesn't hold up in the light of church history. If the NT and the Creeds failed to do that, liturgy won't. It is impossible to stop people taking words in bad faith. That is why Jesus remained silent at one point during his trial.
"the Constantine myth, is that Constantine remade the church, changed doctrines, made it the official and required religion of the Empire, changed the sabbath to Sunday (that was a local western small council that confused the two) brought all kinds of paganism into Christianity (and at this point the neopagans argue our faith is nothing but thefts from paganism because of a few superficial similarities), brought the use of candles, lamps and incense in, and that the Nicene Council dictated the canon (and at this point various people argue that heretical documents of way post Apostolic provenance were "banned from the Bible" and we were all lied to and that the legitimate Gospels were rewritten to claim a divinity for Jesus Christ that supposedly He didn't claim and so forth)."
This is not "the Constantine myth"; this is Christine's Constantine myth, and it is a mixture of truth and untruth. I agree with you that the canonical gospels were (or were based on) eye-witness accounts and were far more ancient than the gnostic gospels. On the other hand it is fact that a movement which began with Constantine culminated a few decades later in Christianity becoming "the official and required religion of the Empire" (in 381AD). It is also true that Constantine showered riches on Bishop Sylvester of Rome and was permitted to interfere in decisions of the church while an immature believer. The church became fashionable and consequently attracted people who were not serious about Christ. It became worldly and fairly soon it was using Roman laws against treason to execute heretics, an appalling violation of the freedom of conscience that Jesus always granted to people - he gave them stark verbal warnings and left them to their own decision.
Sabbath is not a big deal, as nobody knows exactly which day is a multiple of 7 after the creation.
Until Christ returns, the true church will always be treated in the same way that the world treated Him. This criterion can be used to identify it and its enemies.
"THE TRANS PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP SHOULD BE PAID ATTENTION TO AND PRAYED ABOUT.
THIS PLUS NAFTA PLUS THE PLANNED NORTH AMERICAN UNION"
Yes, while it is you, Christine, who is keeping the moot and non-issue (handing out your chocolates) discussed and rediscussed to prove--nothing! You are both the pot and the kettle. Yep, you guessed it--both black. (and again the clog on the blog).
Going on air in a few minutes with David Livingstone -- if we can figure out how to do it on SKYPE! Any geniuses out there to advise
anon 9:07, this IS the Constantine myth as presented to me by many writers, Christian mostly. It is not MY Constantine myth it is what I have been presented with over and over through many decades, in books and articles citing books, that predate my existence.
Constantine did not meddle in the affairs of the Church as a new believer. Being the emperor he had a legitimate interest in putting things in order, but let the Church decide what that order would be, and called this ecumenical council. It was not the first council beyond a local synod ever held.
The role of a king in preserving order and keeping false religion to a minimum has a biblical and historical precedent, though go too far, and the risk exists of suppressing truth instead of falsehood.
The Arian heresy was one of the worst, and had rent the church and even after Nicea I it continued to do so.
The Arians were also the first Christians to use violent persecution via govt. authority against opposition, when they had the throne as they did at times. (if you can call them that given their rejection of the full divinity of Jesus Christ, and the Eunomians who first taught the filioque went even farther, denying Him ANY degree of divinity if I understand them right).
Constantine making Christianity legal may have opened the door for the later developments, but would you want the persecution to have continued being possible?
The Creed may preserve truth, but the more spelled out statements in Scripture ensconced in a context in Liturgy reinforce it.
Christ did not stay silent because His words could be misconstrued, when abjured by YHWH to answer He did answer at one point, but in His silence He fulfilled prophecy, and also helped ensure that the Crucifixion would take place, part of the divine plan, instead of giving them proofs by argument and even miracles that might have converted them.
yes it is possible to say words in a deceptive way, which is why Nicea and a later council hashed over the details of the Creed the way they did, and employed a non biblical term to ensure that it was understood that Jesus is of same substance as The Father (by implication this is unusual, and not true of ANY creature, so much for emanationist notions in the New Age Movement, or claiming we have a divine spark in us other than just in the sense of being in the image and likeness of God).
anon 9:28, discussions specifically Christian may prove nothing to you, but you are not the only person here. Others have seen fit to engage in the discussion.
Only from the Christian perspective can the problems of the New Age Movement be fully understood.
and if my being both pot and kettle means that you consider both the theology issues and the TPP/North American Union issues to be irrelevant to the New Age, then I don't care how many decades you have been studying the New Age you DON'T understand it, you only understand part of it, and while it might be the main driver in secret, it operates like a hydra and most of the heads don't resemble whatever you think the essence of it is.
"Constantine making Christianity legal may have opened the door for the later developments, but would you want the persecution to have continued being possible?"
Our only priority should be to do God's will as revealed in Jesus Christ and be utterly indifferent to whether or not it attracts persecution.
"Constantine did not meddle in the affairs of the Church as a new believer. Being the emperor he had a legitimate interest in putting things in order"
Yes he did, but he was, as I said, PERMITTED to interfere in the affairs of the church - by a bishop whom he had showered with gold, which makes it hard to say No. Sylvester should have welcomed Constantine's interest in Christianity, acknowledged him as temporal lord and assured him of loyalty (Romans 13), offered to instruct him personally in the faith, but told him that he carried no rank inside the church merely because he was emperor and that the church was prepared to accept continued persecution if Constantine intended otherwise. That is not what happened, however. Temptation is the enemy's oldest weapon, is it not?
Anon@5:34 a.m.
What do you mean by compulsory? It's true that liturgies have adapted to time and culture etc, but the essentials remain the same, even if there might be a difference in emphasis.
Anon@6:29 a.m.
Why don't you study the liturgy, instead of making ignorant statements based on what you think.
The essentials of the liturgy focus on the life, passion, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ.
There might be difference in emphasis such as the Western liturgy tends to emphasize the incarnation, and is more earth bound.
The Eastern liturgy tends to emphasize the resurrection and is more heaven bound,
Anon@9:07 a.m.
You do not understand the theology of vocations.
The issue is human sin, not a particular structure.
And you would hard-pressed to find other churches being attacked at a liturgy, because the focus is on Christ.
Satan is the accuser of the brethren.
"Why don't you study the liturgy, instead of making ignorant statements based on what you think."
You haven't stated which of my comments you regard as ignorant or what is wrong with it. I have taken part with friends in liturgies in Anglican, Catholic and Orthodox churches and discussed the matter with these friends.
"There might be difference in emphasis such as the Western liturgy tends to emphasize the incarnation, and is more earth bound. The Eastern liturgy tends to emphasize the resurrection and is more heaven bound"
And each mantains it has the liturgy right, proving my point...
I think we have things figured out. David will be joining me on the air and please join us by listening and in the chatroom
www.themicroeffect.com
chatroom.themicroeffect.com
Constance
"And each mantains it has the liturgy right, proving my point..."
The Catholic church has over 23 rites, which vary in style or emphasis from each other. No one is more right than the other, just different.
It also accepts EO liturgies as valid and perfectly legit, since the essentials remain the same.
There are issues with the acceptance of Anglican orders due to certain innovations, but that's a whole different subject.
Calling a Council to address a serious matter, is not meddling whether it is being permitted to do so or just doing it.
This internal struggle was relevant to Constantine's interests as emperor, because it affected stability in the empire.
Saying get your act together is not the same as dictating what the end result is to be beyond "settle this mess!"
Of course you don't want persecution to end by some sellout, but there was no such compromise made. (some emperors had ignored Christianity, some persecuted it, and Constantine's mother was a Christian.)
of course our concern should be to do God's will never mind if we get persecuted, but God's will was shown when He spoke to Constantine through that vision and I think also a dream, and gave the promised victory against Maximius, which put Constantine in control of the empire and ended Maximius' persecutions and horrible behavior in general.
"You do not understand the theology of vocations."
Maybe I don't understand it, maybe I understand and disagree with your theology of vocations (which is what?)
Maxentius (son of Maximian) lost the Battle of Milvian Bridge to Constantine, Christine. Maximius is not a historical figure of that era.
Anon@12:35 p.m.
The theology of vocations just hold that there are different vocations in the church, but with the same goal.
There are just different ways to get there.
anon. 2:38, excuse my spelling error. Maxentius was the one I misreferred to a "Maximius."
I am reading Livingstone's latest book now, he makes two glaring errors. Supposedly the dhimmis were exempt from zakat a tax. As I recall, zakat is the charity thing within islam as one of its pillars
(not the same as "pillars of the good" he lists in civil matters).
But the dhimmis had to pay a special tax, in order to be dhimmis, don't pay or can't pay, and you got to choose conversion or death.
The Turks initially didn't interfere in Orthodoxy in the Balkans, until a series of nationalistic (i.e., fleshly oriented, the Church's well being isn't good enough you need to rule your own land, blood and soil, etc.) revolts started, at which point there were nasty slaughters and atrocities and efforts to force conversion. When a war would break out with anyone the loser were offered death or islam. Whether islam recognized buddhism and hinduism as religions of the book or not I have no idea but it is news to me. These were not even claiming to have revelations from the God of Abraham, which is what a religion of the book is about.
That said, I have no reason to doubt the excellency of his research on more recent matters and anything regarding jihadi islam. What I have seen so far on his web page is good.
I would recommend this book.
However, complaining that Christianity left only a moral standard and no civil code is shallow. The moral standard would be the basis on which to judge whether to obey or disobey civil laws, and a motive to change them if one is a Christian ruler or legislator.
The Mosaic Law incl. a massive amount of material that is a practical working out of morality in practice for those who can't think it through for themselves, and not being part of the superseded ritual code, can be easily applied or drawn on to make civil law codes.
King Alfred the Great in England did exactly that.
Christine,
Definitely only Jews and Christians are "people of the book" in Islam. But there is no consistency in Islam; as it denies the divinity of Jesus Christ a Muslim can always claim a Christian is worshiping the creation and therefore an idolater.
There were some discussions between purists and pragmatists, among the Muslim warriors who conquered North Africa in the early days, about whether to forcibly convert the conquered tribes. The point is that once those tribes were Muslims they could no longer be raped and plundered with impunity. Often, to convert, you had to declare loyalty not only to Islam but to some Arab overlord. Perhaps a similar discussion went on whenever Muslims won a battle in the 1000-year jihad that has gone on in greater India.
Christine only loves to argue.
Her approach is to overwhelm us with supposed useful & true knowledge that she earnestly believes we are incapable of knowing without her.
Her religion in her demands that we take note or she will bludgeon us into it until we do.
This is why we are disagreeing in the first place because religion over time has used that very approach and she embodies it.
Her negatives help cement my heart against exactly what she espouses.
Christine,
You really ought to get your own blog. You cause harm here. I, for one, will not be back until you are gone.
I can be fairly smart, but have a weak mind. My intelligence has nothing to do with how I treat people. Christine, who the hell do you think you are? I hope you get a good laugh at my expense, because your lack of respect for this blog is really unlovely.
I come over and see nothing but your cross-talking and "dumping" of your trot. Sorry, you can kick me off here if you want. I've been kicked off better.
Where is the facilitator? Aren't we supposed to be talking about the deceptions and brainwashing of the New Age Movement?
It is alive and well here because there is no discipline on this blog. Discipline is just order and format, so we can learn something from each other. I see Christine's entries, and get nauseated. I know that is my problem. So I will avoid this blog.
Sorry Constance! Keep up the good work.
Even if you are Christine is right in some of your posts (and that does happen sometimes but not all the time like you may think) the problem is you can too often come across sounding like the clanging cymbals and tinkling brass that Apostle Paul wrote about in the wonderful Love chapter 1 Corinthians 13. If I have not love, I am nothing...Christine do you really have love for the brethren or do your more love the continual click click click of your typed words. Christine, I actually do pray for you because you are in real need to hear from the wonderful Counselor Jesus, whether you believe it or not.
Anon@2:01 p.m.
To be fair to Christine, she did not start the liturgy baiting on this thread. She did her best to explain her views.
Quote
" Anonymous said...
Anon@2:01 p.m.
To be fair to Christine, she did not start the liturgy baiting on this thread. She did her best to explain her views."
IT IS NOT UNFAIR TO HOLD SOMEONE ACCOUNTABLE. This stuff about being mean to Christine is garbage.
'Poor. poor Christine. She is just a little child. Oh, doesn't hold her accountable. How CRUEL!"
She need to clean up her own stuff.
She is definitely forgivable. But does she understand how she is impacting others, and is she sincerely sorry?
I don't see her owning any of her junk. Sorry, but that is EXACTLY what it is. It's like a demonic force on the blog. She won't stop. She cannot stop. Just watch.
She'll be back without a change.
She is not sorry. Insane.
Constance,
I thought these comments sections were for everyone? I remember a quote about the"ABC Church" in particular. Now it's all kneel at the alter of Christ-ine or be talked over and buried amongst a endless sea of drivel. I count three posters who have verbally signed off in a week, how many more need to do so before you realize your blog has been hi-jacked?
I am reading BLACK TERROR WHITE SOLDIERS: ISLAM, FASCISM & THE NEW AGE by David Livingstone now. 27% through it on kindle.
This is the writer Constance interviewed today on The Micro Effect.
I strongly recommend this book.
(But not his other books.)
This guy is a convert to Islam, but while he argues against Jesus as God Incarnate this book takes up the least amount of time in this. Tracking everything back to Jewish Kabbalah is a bit of a reach, though a common background to both it and pagan sex based philosophies and occultism exists.
I found a lot of things I hadn't known before as well as things I did know. At the point I am at now, he is describing the British connection to founding of Wahhabism and the sufi connection to all this jihadism.
Peace, Peace they cry - Iranian nuclear deal
"he is describing the British connection to founding of Wahhabism"
In case this sentence is a rather inaccurate summary of what happened in the first three decades of the 20th century, here is what happened. Wahhhabism - a fairly radical form of Islam - was more than a century old by the time the British became interested in Arabia, when the Turkish Empire was crumbling during WW1. An intra-Arab power struggle arose between Hussein bin ali, ruler of the Hejaz and hence of the Islamic holy places (Mecca and Medina), which gave him wide influence, and the Wahhabite, Abdul Aziz ibn Saud who had taken power in Riyadh for some time. British policy was actually to prefer Hussein, and the diplomat St John Philby (Kim's father) was disciplined for showing preference to the house of Saud; but the Brits were, reasonably, unwilling to commit the British Army in an intra-Arab dispute. Ibn Saud won and Wahhabism gained in power.
What's the sufi connection? That sounds interesting.
founding is an innacuracy on my part, rather, I should have said getting it established in power.
sufism tracks back to pre islamic shamanistic ways. This writer tries to make out islam in its pure form is fairly harmless, but admits the issue of establishing shariah once there is a large population.
These pre islamic occultic oddities, not unlike some charismatic emerging church stuff in our context now, played a role in every wild cult such as assassins (hashishim) and so forth to the jihadi scene now that broke loose in the islamic context.
specific relationships between theosophy and developments in the 1800s and 1900s and the total loading of all these various degeneracy linked to occultism trends in modern western culture and politics and specific individuals and their activities are detailed.
worth the 9.99 on kindle.
Blavatsky and the likely identity of her "masters" are detailed.
In one book this is 30 years of books and articles and finally the Internet that I have studied and things I DIDN'T know about.
Aside on that magazine "New Age" of Orage, on the masthead or one regular contributor according to info online is one Sickert. And that guy was connected to the Jack the Ripper murders. Orage knew Crowley, and the latter claimed to have the tools that Jack the Ripper used. This detail I don't think is in this book, but there is hardly anything here I didn't know the outlines of BUT MUCH MORE and ALL IN ONE PLACE!
PRAISE JESUS WHO IS INDEED GOD IN THE FLESH, may this Livingstone convert back to Christianity, preferably Orthodox.
Of course he glosses over how gross Turks and others behaved, granted after provocations but still his typical Islamic convert view of well behaved holy and merciful and just islamic warriors is not quite correct, and degeneracy and culturally accepted (even though illegal in islamic law) homosexuality being rampant without western help is of course not even mentioned. But the main body of this book is peerless.
http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/
this page incl. some of the information. This is the title of a previous book, which spends more time on the effort to relate Jesus to various "dying gods" and suchlike, though a couple of researchers have found that some of the Jesus resembling details have turned up in the pagan cults mostly AFTER Christianity was competition and they borrowed some.
From livingstone's blog at
http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/blog/holiness-sin-freud-frankfurt-school-and-kabbalah#.UpJqX9LcAo4
"A successor organization, the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations, was then founded in 1946 under a grant from the Rockefeller Foundation when it separated from the Tavistock Clinic. According to John Coleman, a former British Intelligence agent, it was Tavistock-designed methods that got the US into World War II..."
Nothing to do with the Japanese blowing up Pearl harbor then.
nobody said nothing to do with it. that was the last straw, but there was a struggle on between isolationists and interventionists for some time before that.
http://hnn.us/article/153296
Escalating tensions with Japan also.
http://jdf78.hubpages.com/hub/Reasons-for-American-Entry-Into-WWII
US knew of Japanese escalation and interest in Pearl Harbor, this writer argues the attack was not really expected
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8932197/Pearl-Harbour-memo-shows-US-warned-of-Japanese-attack.html
arguments for it being deliberately allowed
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v11/v11p431_Lutton.html
http://antinewworldorder.blogspot.com/2008/12/who-is-maurice-strong.html
pursuing a link now defunct in Livingtone's book's bibliography, and finding that when I entered that in the Internet Archive suddenly google couldn't connect to it to make the search, I went looking for the author and title. I found this article based on it.
Seems Maurice Strong is not only NWO and New Age, but he is on the weird side of the latter. Seems he bought a chunk of land called The Baca and opened a new age ranch, but that's not all. Seems this place is the epicenter for a lot of paranormal and UFO phenomena, and some of the first cases of cattle mutilation were reported around there. This way predates Strong, so he knew what he was getting when he bought the place.
http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/blog/sufi-conspiracy#.UpKm_9KTjYQ
the sufism, theosophy and terrorism link, and sufism is not classical islam.
Anon 3:05
I hear ya. Came here today to see if there might be any discussion about that subject.
Concerned for Israel, our country, the world in general(!)...but also very sad for Pastor Abedini.
~HM
http://www.herald.co.zw/iran-world-powers-reach-historic-nuke-deal/
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SURPLUS_ARMORED_TRUCKS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-11-24-11-42-57
Spoils of war: Police getting leftover Iraq trucks
"An Associated Press investigation of the Defense Department military surplus program this year found that a disproportionate share of the $4.2 billion worth of property distributed since 1990 - everything from blankets to bayonets and Humvees - has been obtained by police and sheriff's departments in rural areas with few officers and little crime."
~HM
In addition to the fact that the term 'New Age' also refers to the coming Age of Aquarius....
It also refers to a holistic world view, emphasizing that the Mind, Body, and Spirit are interrelated and that there is a form of monism and unity throughout the universe.... attempting to create a world view that includes both science and spirituality, with a long range goal of encouraging mankind 'to come out of the OLD age' and enter into the new age!!!
OKAaay.
anon 7:10 what is so wrong with the Old Age, that we need to get out of it? nothing that isn't just the same as was going on in the antiquity the New Age likes to point to as A Good Time, ratchetted up by technology but still no better or worse.
In a lot of ways, better.
Truth can be a bait for a hook. Someone can tell you a partial truth, like Icke warning with good research about the evils of pedophilic bloodthirsty satanic elites and NWO totalitarianism and so forth, and then you think because he or Tsarion etc. tell you the truth that there is evil running the show, and that the govt. and mass media lie to you, that everything else they tell you is true also.
Then they go and tell you the solution to manifest your own godhood.
I got news for you. That is exactly what the evil elites are doing, manifesting their own godhood. Michael Aquino of the temple of set on TV once pointed out, that the New Agers are satanists without realizing it, because they say we are gods, and so do the satanists, but the New Agers don't realize the implication of what they say (and I would add don't take it as far) while the satanists do realize the implications.
chew on that one for a while.
Here is a good message from:
judahslion.blogspot.com
Wednesday November 27th post. First a short comment about thanksgiving, then main topic titled: 'Jesus - our First Love'
Did everyone fall asleep from eating too much turkey???
gobble gobble. I've been waiting for someone to say something I wanted to respond to.
For a nice musical treat watch this -- I don't know much about the musicians, but the quality is superb!
Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ_MGWio-vc
http://tinyurl.com/lu2aphb
Constance
AM on my radio program, 10 a.m. Eastern time, 7 a.m. Pacific time
The BEAT / "Hippie" / Pseudo Academic roles in the New Age Movement: Allen Ginsberg "Dharma Lion"; Ira Einhorn (Murder in the Age of Aquarius).
Constance
chatroom.themicroeffect.com
or www.themicroeffect.com
Join us by listening or in the chatroom. Call in to 888-747-1968.
Going to bed now, good night!
Constance
Thank you Constance.
That was really beautiful!
April
great show Constance. There is a definite continuum in pop culture from the 1800s (actually earlier) through surrealism and dada and so forth which was more than just on canvas but a philosophy, though I don't know if you mentioned this because I had to leave the computer several times,
and they were occult based,
through the beats to the hippies to the modern times.
The "Peace Sign" is a sign of witchcraft: The Sign of the Broken Cross, and is used in ceremony where a Christian is converted to Witchcraft.
Witchcraft is the often unwitting religion of The Hippies. Gradualism has blinded us so that we don't know what we are reaching for in the name of good.
I really do not want Christine to crosstalk or comment on what I have written. OK?
TBN founder Paul Crouch dead at 79
Created America's most watched faith TV network
http://www.wnd.com/2013/11/tbn-founder-paul-crouch-dead-at-79/print/
http://www.jasoncolavito.com/1/post/2013/11/history-channel-claims-alleged-holy-bloodline-descendant-is-bible-expert.html
Jason Colavito debunks a lot of ancient aliens and suchlike stuff. I am not sure whether he is a Christian or Jew or atheist or what. But he is good at this.
what prompted me to put this link here, is the oddity of this nobody with no background or education McGowan getting a whopping book deal and the relationships between the companies involved.
Constance probably can fill us in on these companies. While Colavito is puzzled, I smell collusion with an agenda and only secondarily an eye to mainstream craziness being good for a buck.
http://www.pravmir.com/canonization-in-munich-saint-alexander-schmorell/
co founder of the anti Nazi White Rose group was apparently Russian Orthodox, and was just canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia in a church in Munich, Germany, he and the others were killed by the Nazis.
Antipasministries.com celebrates them as a model.
When did Christine Erikson take over this blog from Constance Cumbey? Just curious.
"Jason Colavito debunks a lot of ancient aliens and suchlike stuff."
Unlike you Christine. You have published a book claiming that there is a carved face on Mars although it looks like a natural rock formation on higher resolution, and that it is somehow related to advanced prediluvian civilisations although no reputable archeological evidence for this has ever been found.
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the [White] Queen... sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Anonymous 5:41 I have to give it to ya just to make sure someone does. Your comment deserves a big YOWZAH!!! Thank you! Only added to my laughter is the code word I have to use, extradpa which might read extra doopa. Thank you for the joy.
ancient aliens says aliens created us and misinterpretations of their activity is all The Bible adds up to.
I say our mad scientists created them before The Flood, they were offworld and affected less when this happened.
reputable archaeology hasn't even begun to find all there is, they admit it themselves. And so far only ONE site found MIGHT be preflood - Gobekli Tepe, which is puzzling because it looks like it was abandoned and deliberately filled up with sand.
More likely The Flood brought the sand in.
reputable archaology is also up to its neck in disputes precisely because very little of anything is usually found.
One thing we know, if you put wine or other acidic liquid in the "Bagdad Battery" it makes electricity.
As for The Face, even that "closer resolution" photo (which looks like an effort to rework it before releasing to the public) still looks facelike. If it IS accurate, then since the first one was taken, which by the way was TWO photos with different light angles, there has been a collapse, which means it wasn't solid rock to begin with but a building or maybe carved out of a mesa that had a huge cave system in it, or some bombardment occurred.
There is evidence of radioactive thorium isotope(s) on Mars, which can only come from a nuclear reaction. In Gabon Africa there is some similar as a result of a sllowww reaction in a naturally overly rich deposit of uranium.
But this would have to have been a fast reaction, because of the geography affected, two places. That means an explosion.
Okay, so it was natural.
Oops, no relevant cratering.
That means an air blast.......
Whether real aliens or a false flag event to get the unification of nations to fight it is in the works, recall Reagan's comments, their real or apparent existence would throw The Bible as usually sloppily handled (especially by prophecy experts and other experts) into grave doubt.
This scenario I paint would prevent that.
Here's the face on Mars under decent magnification, with the blurred 'face' image in the inset. Make up your own minds whether Christine is talking sense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Face_on_Mars_with_Inset.jpg
You say that there has been a collapse between the original and later pic. Exactly where on the images and according to what evidence?
And anyway, why does collapse mean manmade? Collapse simply means hollow. There are plenty of natural hollows in geology.
The arrogance of your dismissal of the world's archeologists is breathtaking.
Finally, you say that "There is evidence of radioactive thorium isotope(s) on Mars, which can only come from a nuclear reaction." To the contrary, Wikipedia on thorium states that it is four times more abundant in nature than uranium.
The White Queen was an amateur compared to you.
I was referring to NUCLEAR REACTION SPECIFIC ISOTOPES not thorium per se. Didn't I say ISOTOPES?
As for the pix, you need only look on wikipedia to see one of the original two shots, and compare it to the later closer resolution shot. it looks like it has scrunched down somewhat but it still looks facelike anyway.
compare
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Face_on_Mars_with_Inset.jpg
with
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCdb7bgkDksC3AYHOZYzcG-dOq7IfqWjaKlI2ePfTokiFxO6yXWQ
and this, the other photo at a different angle
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKfJS2TXbXcIIsZKdm2G147QZPPTr9TK0vpr6XokYMUHH5G_qvI5o3_g
and while you're at it, take a look at all those pyramids, some three sided (not counting bottom side) some five sided, first noticed by Mariner 9 apparently elsewhere.
bear in mind, that although NASA appears to be cfvilian it has always run with the military, and has taken spy satellite loads.
If you think something like this wouldn't be considered national security and to be suppressed on the one hand, or a terrible blow to standard thinking so many careers are built on not to mention fear of what social impact this might have (in actuality none, these people always think everybody has the same obsessions and drivers they do) and therefore to be suppressed, think again.
world archaeologists - just read their disputes and admissions by professional archaeologists and you will underimpressed as well.
Christine, your comment at 4.05pm just makes me sick. It takes years of training to become a competent archeologist. You think that you know everything about it when you don't even understand that you know nothing.
Actually Christine, you wrote "There is evidence of radioactive thorium isotope(s) on Mars, which can only come from a nuclear reaction." But ALL isotopes of thorium are radioactive, including the ones found naturally on earth - and on Mars. Wrong again.
Maybe my phrasing was poor, my point was that it was isotopes that do not exist in nature as distinct from the ones that do.
anon 4:47, I know what the archaeologists SAY and what they SAY is that very few sites give them much to work with, they can't even be sure of absolute dates for the bronze age or rather, there is a lot of disagreement on it, regardless of what you might see on wikipedia, I subscribe to an egroup that discusses this stuff, and besides which the competency of archaeology is about locating extracting cataloging and preserving, interpretation has changed over the past 100 years.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/04/01/natural-nuclear-blast-mars/
Dr. John Brandenburg whose theory this is, leaves out his real theory, the air blast, because this would wreck credibility, and only goes into this in a book on amazon.com I think it is called Life and Death on Planet Mars, and spends interminable blather on history before getting to the issue. While a very large and very shallow crater does seem to be in the vicinity, a serious ground blast should make it deeper. Especially for that much fallout.
That leaves an air blast.
Do you understand the implications of that?
A bomb.
all deposition radiates out from a point. Deposition as shown in pdf indicates an explosion is likely the cause, politely called "dissasembly" http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2011/pdf/1097.pdf
http://www.arkcode.com/photo4_1.html discusses this using Bible Codes he calls Torah Codes, and frankly I am not sure that the preservation has been precise enough to be certain of the accuracy all the time. Also as the discoverer pointed out, it can refer to a popular belief or a possible event that might be prevented as well as a past or certain future event.
That same site also shows that Mars' atmosphere is not as thin as NASA says, he argues error, I say they lie.
The cloud formations and dust devils there cannot exist under such low pressure. I figured that out decades before he did, just looking at Mariner 9 and Earth atmosphere photos and scales,
but this guy's son studying at CERN in Switzerland for his PhD did what I can't do - math - with information details about the landers that I don't feel inclined to think about looking for.
http://www.arkcode.com/photo4_6.html
"my point was that it was isotopes that do not exist in nature as distinct from the ones that do."
Alright Christine, which thorium isotopes have been detected on Mars that can't be produced other than by manmade nuclear explosions?
Feel free to give a reference, but it must name specific isotopes.
the article link I put focusses on Zenon and Potassium isotopes as evidence, I don't know where the thorium related comment is. Might be in Dr. Brandenburg Ph.D's book LIFE AND DEATH ON MARS which argues for nuclear war not natural event.
Go read the links for yourself.
"Go read the links for yourself."
I did Christine, and the relevant link that you provided didn't mention any specific thorium isotope. YOU made the claim that specific isotopes of thorium produced only in nuclear reactors/explosions had been detected on Mars and, as I don't believe it, it is up to you to provide a reference to back up your claim if if you want to be taken seriously.
Did you just write down that earlier post about thorium isotopes without checking, and now that you find yourself challenged you can't bear to admit it, so you go on the attack with your usual unprofessional and diversionary rhetorical trick by claiming that it's up to ME to verify YOUR claims that I don't believe?
LIFE AND DEATH ON MARS notes that while Russian probes found Earth level U and Th on Mars, the Mars meteorites (identifiable by the Oxygen isotope ratios trapped in the meteorites, as per levels in the Viking project) had very very little.
This meant it was on the surface, not much underground. Which is what got him thinking. radioactive K abundant in similar pattern to Th.
It has been several months since I read this, it was not the Th isotopes type relevant it was the Th surface but not deep presence, and the Ze isotopes relevant to nuclear events.
Mare Acedalium is a burned out looking location, and there is an antipode, either a shockwave circled the globe and refocussed there, or there was a hit and retaliation.
I can't give the pages from a kindle ebook. buy it and dig, but start towards the middle.
Christine,I ask again - are you still a moderator on BlackDahliaElizabethShort ?
Your informed us on this blog, February 2012, that you are a moderator on this gruesome story.
I'm from the UK and didn't know what it was about so I looked it up. In 1947, a brutally mutilated female corpse was found in Los Angeles.
Here's your comment: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=11772087&postID=517272557677054687
You tell us you are a Christian. You leave comments here with a Biblical picture, yet you have the time and inclination to delve into this macabre murder story about a mutilated female corpse. I distrust all that you post.
Christine is into brutal mutilation..with nearly every single topic here,she decides to hack them up with her own wander into the weird (and calls it science). Look what she has done to Constance's blog....
Christine,
I've got it !
You should get a job writing for
The National Inquirer.
Seriously, you could be making some
real money.
It would be a win-win-win situation;
You'd make money, the N.I. would have
a prolific bullshit artist who never gets
tired of ridiculous conjecture, and we'd
all win by not having to wade through
your blather.
Consider it, please
Your friend,
Paul
anon 6:28 you ask AGAIN? I already told you I was, but I had a falling out with the egroup owner and got fired so to speak. Seems she has a peculiar hostility to the suggestion that it is possible to bypass normal morals and ethics with hypnosis or that the official held morals and ethics might not be secret desires and standards of the person hypnotized in the first place, and look like she is in a dream state in her photos herself.
And hostile to the best solution anyone has come up with yet, devoted to anyone and anything but Dr. George Hodel as the sole or primary player in this.
time and inclination? I love the way you make me look.
why do YOU have the time and inclination to look into such evil stuff as the New Age?
The Black Dahlia murder is more than just another gruesome thing. It is in fact potentially the biggest PR disaster for modern art and surrealist philosophy behind it. To explain why would take too long. I reccommend Steve Hodel's books which explain why and how he figured out his father did it (Steve is a retired homicide investigator himself).
To this I add that it looks very much like George Hodel was not alone, but most likely had surrealist artists Deschamps, unsure of spelling, Man Ray, and some others I forget the names right now, in on the torture and murder with him.
Why? I won't explain here. One more thing. Some of the wounding on her is peculiarly like some of those done on UFO cattle mutillation case victims, but I don't relate this to aliens.
George Hodel in turn was part of an abortion doctor network and other corruption which had the police paid off. This meant they didn't dare bust him for this, or he'd drag out their dirty laundry, which in the days abortion was illegal and rightfully so, probably included their wives, daughters and girlfriends as clients of his.
The Black Dahlia herself, not unlike JFK, may have died as a result of a perfect storm of converging interests in seeing her dead. This was not random.
Neither was it Hodel's only kill. When he went to Manila, the same thing happened over there.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/11/29/money-changers-serenade-new-plot-hatches-paul-craig-roberts/
a peek into one aspect of the New World Order, whether the writer - or readers here - recognize it or not.
Paul Crouch founder of TBN (Trinity Broadcast Networks) has died. His legacy is as the press has said, "a mixed one." I did appear on Jan & Paul's programs on at least two occasions, was interviewed by Hal Lindsey on another occasion on their networks, and there were others, that last being, as I recall, in mid October 1987 when Richard Hogue interviewed me on that network.
May he rest in peace.
Constance
Constance - might it be possible that you could post your updates and announcements on your main blog pages please?
I remain interested in reading what you have to say but all too often it gets crowded out in the comments section ... which has unfortunately become an unpleasant place to visit often riddled with misinformation.
Thanks for your consideration,
~ K ~
I second what K said, Constance.
It would be great if you could announce each week what you are talking about and/or who your guest is on your radio show as a main blog post - that way we can keep up on what's going on without having to scroll around in the comments section.
Please consider it?
Constance,
It is good to see you on your blog.
I, for one, am not pleased to visit your blog, as it has been taken over by an individual who is oblivious and does not care that "she" is crashing your blog.
---
I will not participate on the blog as I'd like because of the crosstalk and comments from the individual who seems to crash this blog with impunity.
Sorry, but the trash and clutter on this blog is not funny.
I keep coming back in hopes that something will change.
Maybe it will not. Maybe I just don't get it.
actually the bulk of the problem is those who keep jabbering about me. They spend more time and space and make more chaos than anything I do.
Some of us are trying to correct the mistakes you make, Christine, and most of the time you refuse to be corrected even when your mistakes are pointed out in a way that makes them obvious to everyone else. You also trample on Constance's polite request to restrict yourself to one post here per day. Were she to consider personally enforcing that herself then it would be a way of detoxifying this blogsite, which was once valuable and could be again.
don't waste your time. it is you who refuse to be corrected or even look into anything beyond what you are used to.
Meanwhile, a scientific journal I posted a link to agrees that a nuclear event likely happened on Mars, but argues it is natural, which it could be,
yet Mars has almost no Uranium or Thorium in its meteorites that have Mars signature isotopes of Oxygen etc. in them.
All the U and Th is scattered on the surface, where it is abundant enough seeming.
Brandenburg himself no high school drop out is convinced this was an air blast, which rules out natural causes.
what do you people do? run hide from the obvious.
What is obvious also to me, is that you are NOT going to be of any use in confronting whatever the New Age exploiters of this sort of thing work up next, as usual you will mostly be playing catchup.
Constance is the only ground breaker in this mess, I suspect even Dorothy's 30 years of study was triggered by Constances' work.
So was mine.
The attempted critique of my book is laughable, not having got beyond the first sample you are in no position to review it at all.
Face proven non existent? That photo that supposedly proves it nonexistent STILL looks facelike.
Mars' atmosphere has clouds that CANNOT FORM AT SUCH LOW PRESSURE, PERIOD, END OF SUBJECT. Get it? got it? good.
Dust devils photographed on Mars drive the last nail in that coffin.
But of course, you will refuse to be corrected.
Christine,
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring - Alexander Pope.
Anon@4.13am
Dipshit Cobra and health benefits of meditation - yeah, I am sure you could get similar results with opiates or benzodiazapines, etc. etc. is that any reason to recommend their chronic daily use and maybe even hand them out free starting in kindergarten?
To whom are you talking at 7.16am, Christine? This is Anon@4.13am & 6.38am and I have probably done more debunking of Deepak Chopra than you have. Nor have I ever advocated meditation, and I affirm the Nicene Creed. Perhaps you should not make assumptions about the identities of Anons. Those of us who take the trouble to correct the many errors on your stream-of-consciousness posts here have mostly given up trying to correct you but write to save others from falling for the nonsense that you have.
you didn't post the article ref. scientific studies. of meditation. I don't know who you are, but you are very full of yourself if you think I am even thinking about you. This is a total change of subject and has nothing to do with you.
the hysteria in here is astounding. I remark on the inherent problems of assuming all that lowers blood pressure etc. is ipso facto good, and you whoever you are who were not talking about that, get all het up that I am attacking you or trying to upstage you, or that I'm implying you are into meditation.
And if you recite the Nicene Creed as done by most Protestants, with the filioque in it, forget about sola scriptura because it is NOT Scriptural. The Holy Spirit proceeds from The Father ALONE not from The Father AND The Son as the Creed MODIFIED BY THE RC says. The original Creed is based soundly on Scripture.
The first to teach double procession were the Eunomian heretics.
I have noticed that one of the things that draws fire in here, is when I bring up anything that might be a useful weapon in opposing this stuff. Interesting. sounds like some people don't want to risk a fight on their hands and think everyone else should be like themselves.
Christine,
I had no idea who you were talking to, because you failed to specify which comment you were responding to. I replied because your comment followed mine. Quite obviously it is you who are het up at 7.47am.
there is no reason to assume that I would be addressing an unknown, whose history re Chopra is unknown to me, and who I had just dismissed as someone not interested in being corrected, so logically you could expect me to be moving on.
a remark that follows another remark, and doesn't address anything in that remark, obviously does not relate to that remark.
you took me quite by surprise. As to what I was looking at, the content of my remark should make that obvious, since the Chopra relevant post was on this same blog comments section right at the start. Or did you bother to read it and have it in your memory at all?
Christine,
Simply specify which Anon comment you are referring to.
all these last remarks were addressed to anon 7:25.
The original post the information in which I was supplementing with an argument against this research the post reported on, was not by an anon but by Constance.
Am I to assume that some here who protest I have taken over her blog do not in fact read her posts? This is not the blog itself but the comments section, by the way. Absent hacking there is no one but herself who can post on the blog itself.
"The original post the information in which I was supplementing with an argument against this research the post reported on, was not by an anon"
That makes everything clear, thanks very much!
Nelson Mandela Died today
http://www.opendoorsuk.org/campaign/savesyria/forms/signup.php
Please sign this petition within the next 15 vhours to urge the UN to act and save the lives of Christian Syrians.Thank you!
anon 7:32 I signed it, because this petition will focus attention on this issue, but the only thing that can guarantee what the petition wants is for the US and NATO to stop backing the Syrian rebels and for Assad to remain in power.
anon 7:32 I signed it, because this petition will focus attention on this issue, but the only thing that can guarantee what the petition wants is for the US and NATO to stop backing the Syrian rebels and for Assad to remain in power.
Constance,
Christine is using your blog comments area to further her own political views.
so is any one of you who posts anything at all, its all political in the long run.
But I think Constance has already commented on how the Arab Spring always results in more persecution of Christians, and it is the jihadis who are the rebels and the persecution in places they control has begun already.
Holiday humor. Cartoon, aliens reporting back to their superior elsewhere, "last month they were lobotomizing pumpkins, now they are stuff bread up a turkey's ass. This planet has issues, Bert."
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/geneology.html
Influence Links of the Third Wave the whole charismatic prosperity and manifest sons of God crew that Constance discusses in A Planned Deception.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-republicans-see-one-remedy-for-obama--impeachment/2013/12/03/e623d61e-5c65-11e3-be07-006c776266ed_story.html
http://drleonardcoldwell.com/2013/10/14/tpp-treaty-is-corporate-global-government-obamas-new-world-order/
this treaty is being fast tracked, where something is voted on without being read. (That doesn't even sound constitutional, but it has happened before.)
This would also give corporations the power to sue govt. whose laws interfere with profits. Like if there is restriction on slave labor products, or on massive dumping of poisons into waters that go to fish and produce we eat, companies can sue because of such rules.
THE NOTION THAT FASCISM IS A FORM OF SOCIALISM IS SEMI FALSE.
It is the corporate state, the merger of corporations and government. The "socialist" part of "national socialist worker's party" was a manipulative term.
Mussolini defined fascism as the corporate state. This is what TPP is strenthening and this is what we already have and is making so much trouble.
http://ourfuture.org/20130823/congress-public-waking-up-to-tpp-threat?gclid=CJ6qhO7FnbsCFQlafgodqyIARw
http://conservativesonfire.wordpress.com/2013/06/24/trans-pacific-partnership-__-the-next-secret-step-toward-a-new-world-order/
Just about ready to go on the air after an unbelievably stressful week as a lawyer. Today we are discussing Ray Kurzweil . . . his "don't miss the singularity", his position as director of engineering at Google, and the transhumanist movement. Join us in the chatroom at chatroom.themicroeffect.com or listen live by going to
www.themicroeffect.com
Thanks!
Constance
http://endthelie.com/2011/06/04/transhumanist-genocide-rationalizing-apotheosis-and-mass-murder-through-technology/#axzz2mo8XewKy
https://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/international-coalition-of-apostles/
parallels between Manifest Sons of God and New Apostles charismatic teaching and Alice Bailey teaching examined
Poor Judd is dead....
Christine,
Could you re-post the link on Dr. Leonard and the corporate global government treaty and Obama's New World Order? I copied and pasted it but it kept saying an error in the web address. I am very interested in reading it.
Thank you,
John
that's interesting, I can't even connect to his home page. archive.org doesn't have it, and google cache text only finally loaded, here is what he said in case this fails also. Google cache html just loaded, will incl. links and youtube.
"Those of you who remember the cancelled trip of Hussein Obama to four Asian countries, originally scheduled for the first part of October of this year probably didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to what his reason was for being there. You probably thought as many of us do that any excuse to get rid of the traitor for even a short period of time is a good deal for Americans. You were likely disappointed when it turned out that John Kerry would be going in Hussein Obama’s place.
One of the things that the subversive agent Hussein Obama was going to work on and his substitute is carrying on in his stead is the TPP, the Trans-Pacific Partnership. That sounds nice, doesn’t it? All of these nations’ leaders that share the Pacific ocean, getting around together, holding hands on the beach and making peaceful, humanity-conscious agreements.
Well, not so fast, there luau boy; step back from that treaty. One little bit of text that was smuggled out is very revealing about the contents of this corporate government love-fest. It appears to be a wealth of giveaways to the global corporate structure, in effect setting up a global world government. The agreements contained in this sellout legislation are huge, providing jurisdiction of corporations, including foreign corporations over America and American interests, based upon a parallel legal system and treaty.
This is in effect the New World Order global government, including a separate corporate legal system.
But, you might ask, why haven’t I heard about this? Well, the simple answer is, you aren’t supposed to know. The upper 1% knows that if they are exposed, they will likely be stopped. The new preferred method of “approve it before you read it” will be implemented once again once this secret sellout of our sovereignty deal is completed.
Watch the video below and prepare to be amazed at what this crooked American leadership, in conjunction with criminal governments worldwide is in the process of doing under our noses and behind our backs.
The video is from this time last year. The process is near completion now. We need to act to alert our fellow citizens and stop this thing before it becomes law. Once it is law, it becomes tremendously difficult to free ourselves from the tentacles of this corporate domination.
None of the people of any of the nations involved benefit from this and none but the corrupt leaderships are pushing it.
We need to push back hard and push back now.
Rick Wells is a conservative Constitutionalist author who contributes to conservative media outlets. Please follow Rick on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rick-Wells/1405080846374047?ref=hl
Source: http://universalfreepress.com Author: Rick Wells
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://drleonardcoldwell.com/2013/10/14/tpp-treaty-is-corporate-global-government-obamas-new-world-order/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq20AFPyi1Y
text only cachettypass
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://drleonardcoldwell.com/2013/10/14/tpp-treaty-is-corporate-global-government-obamas-new-world-order/&strip=1
More on the TPP
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/08/tpp-trade-agreement_n_4409211.html?ncid=webmail1
leaked memos article refers to
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/1294_001.pdf
global health risks TPP presents
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/13/wikileaks-global-health_n_4269337.html
TPP
the final item on the laundry list
of the 1%
Glad to see Paul and Christine are finally getting along swell! Yes, well done with the TTP find, Christine! Please do try and steer clear of theology and the hard sciences though as they are clearly out of your depth. Once again, great post!
Great to see Paul and Christine in agreement! Excellent find Christine - good to see you not attempting to discuss theological or scientific matters as they are clearly not your forte.
anon 3:56 that apologetics site is excellent for some subjects, but totally out of its depths on EO. We are warned that we have to be cooperating with God for sacraments to keep us on track. The situation of the thief on the cross who had no sacraments but turned with all his heart to Jesus is not lost on us.
I think I already answered that site's arguments a while back some months ago.
I read The Bible a lot and never joined (though would attend) any church because ALL the protestant churches have biblical problems as do RC in its way. I joined EO because it is historically the first and has no problems that don't fit in the category of nonessentials.
As for sacramentalism, Justin Martyr writing in the 100s AD affirmed that the Eucharist does indeed become The Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, and St. Paul said that those who eat unworthily are eating judgement against themselves, so obviously he considered it was real not mere symbol.
The modern use of the word symbol separates the reality from the symbol or image so that it is an "empty symbol," but that is not what Greek symbolon means, it is a grounding in reality of the reality the symbol stands for the symbol contains the reality it refers to.
That is why the Creed is called the Symbol of The Faith.
Meanwhile you people still recite the Creed with the Romish filioque in it.
Hi Christine what apologetics site are you referring to please? Also, who are you addressing as, "you people"? Please clarify. Thank you.
the jesus-is-lord.com apologetics site, which is referenced in terms of Orthodoxy being "out of the pit of hell" but the post I see has disappeared. It was right before the post I made that you are referromg to.
"you people" means protestant extremists such as like the site for its anti RC bent and probably think RC is the whore of babylon. Despite the fact that the Vatican is outside Roman city limits, and that RC as we know it didn't get to developing much before the 800s AD and started by claiming more supremacy than primacy of honor allows.
I that is the site that complains about a skull below the cross but doesn't understand the meanings of the symbols. the skull is that of Adam, whose sin brought death into the world and that death is conquered by Jesus on The Cross. I recall some hand gestures are wrongly compared to mudras which have the fingers in different positions than these, the hand gestures refer to the Trinity and the two natures, divine and human of Jesus Christ, another version references the Greek letters the first two in Jesus and the first two letters in Christ. The two snakes on the bishop staff refer to Jesus comparing Himself to the brass serpent Moses raised in the wilderness and those who looked on it were healed of snake bit, and someone referenced Jesus' words to "be wise as serpents but harmless as doves."
Hi Christine, I can't find anything about jesus-is-lord.com site referencing anything of the sort... ?
Here is an article that came out today by RT on the US putting on pressure for passage of the TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) The article noted that this a very controversial move by the US.
http://rt.com/news/wikileaks-trans-pacific-deal-921/
"have to be cooperating with God for sacraments to keep us on track. The situation of the thief on the cross who had no sacraments but turned with all his heart to Jesus is not lost on us."
(This is a piece of crap answer if I ever heard one.)
Oh yeah? where is your faith 4:10 p.m.? Your faith reads like it is in the what-not the Who.
The above statement of yours is like mixing oil and water. Your thinking is very disconnected (and lacking understanding of what is real biblical faith).
Please stay out of the theological realm. You offer confusion and we are warned who is the author of confusion.
Christine, are you sure the supposed "anon 3:56" you are refering to is not a figment of your imagination? Please provide the said link you mention. Thank you.
Christine, you've been asked nicely to provide the link you refered to, yet I see you can't put up so you've shut up ... why not try doing that more often!
anon 6:33, nice move, you probably posted that then deleted it which a poster can do to their own pasts, so as to make me look delusional.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/greek_eastern_orthodox.htm
oops, jesus-is-lord is a different site, misremembered the URL
There is nothing disconnected about my thinking you are just too used to disconnected proof texts out of context and depending on traditions of men like Calvin and Zwingli.
my faith is in the Who that the what points to. the so called piece of crap answer is evidence that you can be saved without sacraments and church membership.
if you want to see confusion, look at the wrangling of all the protestant denominations and ALL of them are flawed when you check them against The Bible.
Read the pre nicene Fathers. ccel.org a calvinist institution has them online.
Anon 6:33 here! No, I have deleted nothing Christine. Beware of your accusations! Besides, you addressed the poster as "anon 3:56". Was that a name of a signed in blogger or was it someone posting anonymously as such implies? If so, pray tell how can a poster posting anonymously delete his or her own post here when there is no function to do so? Well, which is it? I find the name, "anon 3:56" to be an unlikely signed in blogger ... am I right? Bridle your tongue!
Moreover Christine, I find it incredulous that such a post, as you FALSELY claim I deleted, would remain for the 14 minutes from the supposed 3:56 anonymous post conveniently up to when you posted at 4:10 and then suddenly get deleted. HOW? Are you for real? Why should we not think you're creating your own Hegelean dialectic just to draw the attention you so desperately crave!
6:54 p.m. I have not read either Calvin or the other guy you mention. Don't who they are or are not (nor care).
I read the Bible (cover to cover). And then I just believe it's authority and trust that Jesus' work there on the cross is enough (and finished) to forgive and save the eternal soul like the thief did. You should try leaving out man-made tradition and endless commentaries and just simply believe Jesus like the thief on the cross. But then that would take all your supposed valiant effort at saving yourself away (your Jesus plus yourself brand).
Perhaps you are not humble enough for simple childlike faith like Jesus himself teaches is the real deal? All your reading and learning (?) has you looking more like those who strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. That must be why you give those confused responses. Yep. Crap.
They are the ones who shaped the thinking of non Lutheran protestants Baptists and Presbyterians follow their lead this all goes back to the late middle ages.
Lutherans did not abandon but greatly trimmed liturgical worship and do not deny the literal presence of Christ's Body and Blood in the Eucharist.
My responses are not confused but coherent and it is not about saving by rituals and keeping some fasting rules but these aid what protestants call sanctification.
9:17 Who cares? Jesus is the Yes and Amen. Not your or anyone elses opinion about saving faith and sanctification. Why not rely on the Bible and the Holy Spirit the teacher Who is God instead of mere people, don't care which era they came from? You cannot leave it there can you? (you love to argue the pointless)
Titus 3:9-11 comes to mind in dealing with you.
I read that Scripture, it reminds me of some of you. But reading the WHOLE Bible and noticing CONTEXT is a major part of what got me here.
Remember The bones of Elisha bringing a dead man back to life? Holy relics validated.
Remember the prayed over cloth pieces that Paul sent out? Blessed objects validated.
The anti liturgical attitude comes from Calvin and Zwingli. through the people who some of you rely on. their interpretations of Scripture is what is taught by many today who never heard of them.
St. Paul warns against eating the Eucharist unworthily, not perceiving the body, and if so one eats judgement to himself. Does this not mesh with the idea there is a real presence there that can offended?
None of what you say conflicts with Orthodoxy really, it is a fuller expression of point after point in The Bible.
Is God not worthy of worship with color and light and incense?
The Bible teaches about salvation as a starting point, sanctification is an ongoing thing, read The Bible for yourself not just what your teachers say it teaches, read whole books or epistles in one sitting. Even the protestants to some extent understand this.
You have no idea upon whom I rely on so you can quit trying to put me into some religious box or label. You seem to be very smug in your almost liturgical form of "educating" me.
I rely on the Holy Spirit to teach me the whole Bible and in context as per John 14:26. All you have is the regurgitated crap you have gleaned from probably every source of every by-gone age, but the Bible, as the final authority.
Scripture illumines Scripture but because you cannot quote Scripture to back up your position (for your "bells and smells" ritual) it then appears that you are lost in the dark halls of mere form of religion with a superior attitude. Another proof of missing the point. You have repeatedly missed the point because you are missing Christ Jesus as the Point. Done with ya.
Definitely Titus 3:9-11 fits.
"it is a grounding in reality of the reality the symbol stands for the symbol contains the reality it refers to."
Double talk-double crap Christine.
You are clue.less.
Can't quote Scripture? you mean the Scripture you rely on you are so ignorant of that you don't recognize the incidents I cite.
Here are the specific cites.
Elisha's bones raise a dead man - 2 Kings 13:21
Prayer cloths sent by Paul - Acts 19:11, 12
do you go to a church that recites the Nicene Creed or claims it as its statement of faith,
and includes in it that The Holy Spirit proceeds from The Father AND THE SON (filioque in Latin)?
if so you are not following The Bible but the inventions of the Roman western church which added "and The Son" against Jesus' words that The Holy Spirit "proceeds from The Father: period.
http://www.ottilie.org/blog/?p=321
liturgical references in the NT
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/ourlife/liturgical_worship_in_the_new_testament
http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/06/christian-worship-in-the-first-century/
Why aren't Jesus' words and example of faith enough for you that you need spiritual "support" from a method rather than Jesus Himself?
Quote all you want but I notice you do not quote The Author of the faith Himself. Jesus is the last and final word on every subject. (not you) Got that?
You are displaying the very behavior that is the antithesis to faith in Christ--beating around every bush and missing Him.
"it is a grounding in reality of the reality the symbol stands for the symbol contains the reality it refers to."
Case in point.
symbol = reality say what?
Reminds me of a line in a song....
I've got your picture, she's got you.
That's how off the mark you are. And if you persist will be left totally stuck on stupid.
Dec 10, 2013, 6:13am PST Silicon Valley Business Journal
Cisco, home appliance makers team up on Internet of Things
At least seven consumer electronics companies are teaming up on an open source framework to help home appliances and electronics communicate. The partnership could pave the way for all of our devices to be smart and connected.
The goal of the AllSeen Alliance, with members Cisco Systems Inc., D-Link, Haier, LG Electronics, Qualcomm, Panasonic and Sharp, is to enable systems to seamlessly connect and interact regardless of which operating system or manufacturer is being used, PCWorld reports.
The involved companies will contribute engineering and software resources to the framework, which will allow software developers, manufacturers and service providers to create services and devices that work together.
For example, the framework could let a house system detect that no one is home and shut off the heater. It could also sync up a music-playing device with nearly wireless speakers.
The Internet of Things is a term that involves networking real-world objects together — such as linking your car to your toaster via the Web. Cisco has been a huge proponent of the concept. It launched a new division in late October to focus on the Internet of Things and promote standards that go with it.
Gartner predicts that more than 30 billion objects will be connected by 2020 as products worth more than $100 will be smart.
http://tinyurl.com/nfth43p
Dave in CA
Anon@10:42 a.m.
"Why aren't Jesus' words and example of faith enough for you that you need spiritual "support" from a method rather than Jesus Himself?"
You have no right to be the judge of this. You do not know if a person's soul has a relationship with Jesus or not.
Christine does not deny the basic premise, about Jesus being her Lord and saviour. If a method of prayer helps her reflect on this, just as prayer does. Then so what?
I am fed of this dog-fight. It's uncharitable. Why not spend your time in more edifying pursuits. then you would truly be following Jesus's words and examples of faith.
Dave,
Internet of Things. Brings a whole new meaning to being "off the grid", eh?
No more appliances, no more vehicles, no more entertainment devices. I think I'm going to become Amish. Or at least Mennonite - whichever denomination lets you drive (older, non-digital) vehicles other than black ones with no chrome.
Old Tech all the way, baby. Join the anti-digital revolution.
Best Regards,
Marko the Anachronist
Poor olde Christine! She goes out of her way to correct the blog's physicist (Phd) with her labored NAM-style pseudo sciences, complimenting him with words such as liar!
She works tirelessly at ensuring Constance's blog is clogged with the endless clanging of her persistant empty words.... Christine's perspective!
She sure is set on acheiving what Creme, Hubbard and others haven't and that is to silence an army of Anti-New Age posters on this blog. Never mind, there is always some heretical drivel she's promoting in her arrogant strive for dominance here. How dare anyone contend for the Faith once delivered unto the saints by rebuking her heresies and outright selfish pride - so uncharitable to do so ... NOT!
God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. John 4:24 Symbols and rituals are not the reality! Jesus Himself is the reality, so ,Christine, your new age slanted religiousity is unreality and needs it's symbols to make it "support" an experience for the senses which are not spiritual but belong in the realm of the natural. Remember Spirit and Truth-Jesus' own words. Who wants or needs a knock-off version, especially when it come to ones salvation? Give me Jesus.
Symbols and rituals are the instead of because those things are not Spirit and they are not Truth. Christine's stupid words are saying the symbol can somehow equal the reality. Is that bordering on blasphemy? I wonder.. And images such as symbols or relics and rituals even mental and emotional can come dangerously close to a break of the 2nd commandment if you will let that thought/feeling run out into a full course. Some very old worship styles and some very new ones of the modern church are guilty of this very thing. The church was given ordinances not rituals and sacraments-Jesus did not teach supposed "helps" for the "worship experience" and that is what He spoke to the samaritan woman-"you don't even know what you worship" to paraphrase. There was only One Sacrament given-One Image to worship and it is Jesus Who Alone is the Very Image of God the Father. "When you have seen Me you have seen the Father" is what HE told HIS disciples. Why must that change to a knock-off version??? Well, not for me....
Give me, Jesus.
Come on now, would you have Jesus replaced by mere symbols and liturgies etc etc etc just so it can "help" you and "support" you to feel a religious feeling and think religious thoughts??
It is God The Holy Spirit in the true believer Who creates that!
If this shoe fits then you (anybody!) must wear it. You can be your own judge of that...examine yourselves and see if you are in the faith..wise words to take to heart from Apostle Paul.
Spirit and Truth. Jesus left it there and no one can "improve" on His way to Love God.
Very honest words there, 7:06 PM, truly ecclesiastical and refreshing to hear! Thank you. God bless you richly,
a brother in Christ.
Cukoo-like
Heretical
Ruinous
Insolent
Subversive
Tortuous
Insubordinate
Nauseating
Envious
Exacerbatingly
Rude
Insensitive
Kooky
Selfish
Obstructive
Nutter
Aka
Jaded
Unscrupulous
Slandering
Tormented
Insufferable
New
Ager
We argue, and fight,,,but here is a sobering article on persecution that should silence us all.
www.altheadlines.com Monday December 9th post
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. John 4:24"
CONTEXT He was answering the woman who asked whether in Mt. Gerizim or in Jerusalem God should be worshipped, Jesus answers He is to be worshipped everywhere, HE is not limited, deal with Him as unlimited, and don't be hypocritical.
" Symbols and rituals are not the reality!"
They point to it.
"Christine, your new age slanted religiousity" no the continuation of the synagogue rituals that the early Christians did and which developed into The Holy Liturgy and so forth later.
"needs it's symbols to make it "support" an experience for the senses which are not spiritual but belong in the realm of the natural."
Really? Did not God The Son become flesh, Incarnate into the realm of the natural?
Did He not say to love God with all your mind, heart and strength?
Does not that get done when you worship with all your senses?
Rev. 6:9 an altar shown in heaven
Rev. 4:8-11 worship with action and words
Rev. 5:8-10 more liturgical worship and incense
Liturgy in the New Testament Scriptural references:
Acts 2:42 - continued in THE prayers (in the GreeK), were day by day IN THE TEMPLE…
Acts 5:42, The apostles were continually in the Temple praying and teaching, 6:4 they appoint deacons so they can devote themselves to THE prayers (Greek) and ministry of the word
Acts 10:2-3 Cornelius prayed continually, 9th hour., 10:9 Peter at the 6th hour went to the roof to pray. These were "liturgical hours of prayer".
Acts 13:2 While they were "ministering" to the Lord, literally in liturgy, the Holy Spirit spoke to them. The Spirit works in liturgy
Acts 15:22, 18:8, 17: "leaders" of synagogue, ie., liturgical worship leaders.
Acts 18:7 "Worshipper of God" house next to the synagogue.
Acts 16:25 midnight praying and singing hymns of praise to God.
Acts 20:6, 16 After the Days of Unleavened Bread, Pentecost are mentioned. Paul says in I Cor. 16:8 that he will stay in Ephesus until Pentecost. The early Church kept a liturgical "church calendar".
Hebrews 8:2 High Priest Jesus a "minister" (lit. "liturgist") in the heavenly sanctuary.
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/ourlife/liturgical_worship_in_the_new_testament
There she goes ... on and on and on and on again!
There she goes ... on and on and on and on again!
Christine you are seriously hung. up.
Looks like the one needing most convinced about all you post is yourself Christine. That is why you explain sooooooooo much (and so often). It is not your job to convince us of anything in all things Biblical. That is the Holy Spirit's job Who is The Teacher as it says in John's gospel. You make a lousy Holy Spirit.
Cult operators have two main ways to manipulate, information deprivation and information overload. Information deprivation puts the target in a situation where he is told that he will learn more as he moves up in the system. Information overload means so much information is provided to the target that the target will go along with the system rather than admit he can't understand so quickly all that is being provided. Cult is a very broad term. A cult operator may be only one person with one or several followers. Cult leaders do not allow logical analysis of their positions. Of course information deprivation was used by Pelosi when she said to know what's in the bill you have to pass it first. The Democrats who accepted this could be said to be followers of her cult group, i.e., Democrats. Information overload is what Christine is doing here. She jumps all over the place, suggesting links without any kind of discussion. From what I've seen, she has no followers here however, no matter how hard she tries to pull that stunt off.
11:22 and 11:26, you are truly pathetic. "information overload" if I give you a big picture, connect the dots or explanation, or Scripture or history to back up something. "information deprivation" if I just give links for you to study.
you can't understand something? if it is spelled out and made simple you complain. If it isn't you complain.
teaching not to be done by individual? Not according to The Bible. St. Paul tells Timothy to teach, and to train up others who can teach also, teaching is one of the listed gifts of The Holy Spirit.
If you have trouble understanding something then study it more and find information relevant to it.
I think you thought you were the big fish in this pond, and feel threatened. I got news for you, this isn't my pond or yours. in general on any forum, some post a lot, some lurk a lot.
If someone benefits from anything I post or you post, that is all that matters.
And you can't possibly have any followers at all, because being anonymous no one can know what posts are yours and what are not.
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