Their script is now written, subject only to last minute editing and stage-directions. The stage itself, albeit as yet in
darkness, is almost ready. Down in the pit, the subterranean orchestra is already tuning up. The last-minute, walk-on parts
are even now being filled. Most of the main actors, one suspects, have already taken up their roles. Soon it will be time for
them to come on stage, ready for the curtain to rise. The time for action will have come."
(From The Armageddon Script, by Peter LeMesurier, St. Martin's Press, 1982: New
York, p.252).
The media has had a field day fanning flames over the antics of an alleged 30 to 50 member congregation headed by Pastor Terry Jones in Gainesville, Florida. Certainly the pastor's actions are, in my opinion, clearly imprudent. What his true motivations may be, I can't purport to say. I cannot help but suspect that those with an agenda may have egged him on. It has even occurred to me that wittingly or unwittingly, he is an important player in THE ARMAGEDDON SCRIPT.
That is the title of a 1980 book by Peter LeMesurier. LeMesurier is an English New Age strategist/author. He, like his predecessor, Alice Ann Bailey, affirmed that the targets were Jews, Christians, and Moslems -- "Peoples of the Book" as David Spangler puts it. Monotheists are hated and despised. The well outlined strategy was to pit all three target groups who practiced monotheism in one form or another against each other, as well as their respective subgroups against other subgroups.
"The massed forces of the Old Age, however, will be unable to check their headlong onrush. In large measure they will go on to destroy each other in a massive, mutual venting of long pent-up aggression. ." page 237 The Armageddon Script
The Alliance of Civilizations has had a field day. One of its major spokespersons, John Esposito, has been widely featured in media ranging from the New York Times to CNN interviews and probably many others. Those were the ones I viewed. Certainly our own "Rich of Medford" can tell you more about this. He has given excellent analytical coverage of the Alliance of Civilizations and its agenda to regulate religion and its educational curricula globally.
Esposito's Alliance of Civilizations 'Group of Personalities' sidekick, Karen Armstrong, has been even more energetic in marginalizing monotheism of any sort as "idolatrous."
Well, they have certainly all had a lovely "crisis = opportunity" week. The pastor's planned program will give them big excuses to step up their campaign of scrutinizing and regulating religious education curriculums. I wonder how much Pastor Terry Jones has considered the full ramification of his actions?
I'm not at all sure that Pastor Terry Jones' actions are divinely anointed. I am sure, however, that it is a potentially important event in setting the stage for persecution to come.
Stay tuned!
CONSTANCE
212 comments:
1 – 200 of 212 Newer› Newest»Disturbing quote of the day...
Sergey Brin: "We Want Google to be the third half of your brain."
http://tinyurl.com/23ygoww
its not an antic... its his right as a christian ...
looks like the only people opposed to this burning are the ones destined for hell ...
Anon 6:42,
I am against it. I definitely believe Jesus Christ as my Savior and there are no other gods. Christians are to be a people of love and kindness unless God directs us otherwise. We are to pray for anyone who does not know the Truth. We are to tell others about the Truth, the Great I AM. This act of burning the Koran does not glorify God in the least bit and that is ultimately what Christians are called to do.
Looking at the Drudge Report and various blogs this morning, I can see the AOC crowd is all over the news and united in condemning this "fundamentalist" pastor. No one seems to be standing up for his right to express himself, which tells me that that right will not be around much longer.
This is absolutely "crisis = opportunity" fodder! I think the Beck rally and tea parties play into it also.
Did anyone notice this piece in Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/08/heartsong-church-memphis-islamic-center_n_710053.html
or http://tinyurl.com/heartsongchurch
Amazing that the town in which this so-called "model of interfaith spirituality" is located is Cordova, Tennessee. Coincidence?
From Wikipedia:
Córdoba (Spanish pronunciation: [ˈkorðoβa]; also Cordova; Qurṭuba قرطبة) is a city in Andalusia, southern Spain, and the capital of the province of Córdoba. An Iberian and Roman city in ancient times, in the Middle Ages it was capital of an Islamic caliphate.
Today a moderately-sized modern city, the old town contains many impressive architectural reminders of when Qurṭuba (قرطبة), the thriving capital of the Caliphate of Córdoba, governed almost all of the Iberian peninsula. It has been estimated that in the latter half of the tenth century Córdoba, with up to 500,000 inhabitants, was then one of the most populated cities in Europe.[1] Its population in 2008 was 325,453.[2]
Some years ago I spoke to a Mennonite man who was boasting that his church had helped a Hindu temple work through the township's zoning process. I was as sick then as I am now!
YesNaSpanishTown
Re: Pastor Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center . . .
W.L. Cati, founder of White Horse Ministry, has corresponded with Jones in the past and plans to travel to Gainesville, Florida, today in hopes that she can make the pastor change his mind.
"We can't fight back that way. We've got to fight back as Christians with love," she urges, "and burning the Quran is not going to produce the effects I think that he is trying to produce. So I'm going up there to try to talk some sense into him."
Cati, who used to be married to a Muslim man, says besides the real threat of violence, the Quran burnings would give Muslims a huge propaganda coup.
"If he does this, the Muslims are going to play this out to the utmost. They are going to milk this for everything it's worth," she says. "And it's going to show Christians in a bad light once again. It's going to show us as the bad guys, and they're going to turn it to use to their advantage."
Cati says she will camp out at the church on Saturday if necessary to try to head off what she considers to be an unwise move.
Maybe Rev. Terry Jones needs to search his own heart and ask himself whether his motives are purely Christian or also monetary.
It is my understanding that he has turned to the Internet to raise money. In addition to selling his book, “Islam Is Of The Devil” on his website, he is also selling
shirts, coffee mugs and hats with the title of the book printed on them.
ALL Christians should take a deep breath and ask themselves the question: "What would Jesus do?"
If his actions result in the unnecessary deaths of countless people around the world . . . isn't that a sin against the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill"?
It is Jones' right (at least for now) to burn the Q'uran or any other book he'd like. Just like anyone can burn the American flag. However, just because it's allowed by our Constitutional the right of Freedom of Speech DOES NOT make it the right thing to do.
This is NOT what the Apostle Paul did on Mars Hill.
Excuse me, but isn't that what our servicemen and women are doing, standing up for this man's Constitutional right to be stupid? If his freedom and liberty is curtailed, so will our own. But then again, it seems our military is just a pawn making the world safe for the AOC corporate crowd and no longer concerned with defending the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.
Freedom of expression, speech, and religion are what this country was founded on. Too bad it's all going away because our leaders have cowed the populace into believing it's more important to be concerned with offending someone else's feelings than with upholding the U.S. Constitution.
Obama's line that this act violates "American values" and goes against what America stands for should be challenged for the absurd lie that it is.
And our Constitution guarantees that 'FREEDOM' of religion that a Muslim has the right to believe in his Q'uran just as a New Ager has the right to believe that he is 'like god' . . . whether the rest of us agree with them or not.
It's his right as an American, not as a Christian. By burning the Quran, it's just the same as declaring war on Islam. We are about loving our enemies, even if we don't get love back. That's Christianity and Jesus' commandments. If you oppose the word of Jesus, you oppose him. And who ultimately opposes Jesus...Satan! You can hide behind the guise of a Christian when really you're just a worshipper of Satan and hate. However, you can't hide from God! You can fool yourself into thinking God approves of your own selfish and evil ways. But, God is no fool! Cheer on this burning, that's fine. But, when your burning in the ever after and separated from God for all eternity, then let's hear you cheer, then.
BE CAREFULL you Christians who jump in with the Media and the Government (right there should be your clue) to condemn the burning of the Koran. Burning anti God (of the Bible... not the moon god from Ur) books is New Testament biblical. It may have been the owners who converted to Christ, but they still burned the books. Acting out in anger against those who disrespect YHWH is something that Jesus did. There are plenty of CONTEXTUAL verses to back this preacher. The Apostle Paul’s dealing with Idol makers is directly related.
If you think the Quran does not disrespect YHWH then you know very little about Islam.
“Say, “ He is God, the One. God, to whom the creatures turn for their needs. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none like Him”” Quran,112:1-4
Most of that was stolen from the bible except where satan puts “He begets not” . Because Jesus being the only begotton Son of God let alone GOD , is the one thing satan cannot stand.
I have no idea what is in this preachers heart nor would I even assume. But if the Media AND the Government are against him then that tells me something.
As for the “LOVE LOVE lets be tolerant talk” it is first being used out of context and ,, well,, sounds very emergent to me.
If this is the dividing line then I want to be on the side the world is against.
God is Love. Yes.. BUT ! He is First and more important to him , JUST.
wow, ejiles! i love that!!
Burning books is just as stupid as burning flags. What does someone do for an encore! Islam and America are not about to go away because flags and books are burned.
A friend who is into martial arts and who teaches self-protection told me that one way to scare off an attacker is to start acting crazy, mentally ill,babbling, the idea being one doesn't know what a crazy person will do next. The Muslims have that act down to a science. The media and government spokesmen run around like chicken little saying the sky is falling.
We need to do something crazy in return. One idea: SNARL...IF YOU TOUCH THE HEAD OF ONE AMERICAN, SOMEONE WILL BOMB A MOSQUE WITH PEOPLE IN IT.
Or, instead of burning Korans, how about getting a lot of publicity and then shredding a Koran a tiny bit by bit. The media would get bored and the Muslims wouldn't know how to retaliate.
The Muslims are not involved with a religion. Why pretend they are. What is going on is political Public Relations games. Why not deal with it at that level rather than just getting our adrenalin up without a direction for our actions.
Dorothy
JUST ANNOUNCED...
Florida Minister Cancels Buring of Quaran on 9/11
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909
/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning
The difference in the book burning in the new testament is this; the ones who accepted Jesus burned their own books.
Act 19:18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.
Act 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
Act 19:20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.
This is a very, very big difference. We are in a spiritual battle, not one of the flesh.
I talked with Rich of Medford tonight who informs me that he concurs with my opinion on this one.
Constance
http://www.redstate.com/veronicaestrada/2010/09/09/interpol-issues-alert/
INTERPOL issues Global Alert for World-Wide Terror, Chaos, Mayhem and Destruction [tiny update]
Actually, INTERPOL just issued an alert for “increased terror threat if Koran burning in US goes ahead as planned.”
The title might as well be accurate, given we’ve already got a big “NO” from President Obama, Hill, Holder, General Petreaus, the NATO Secretary General, the Pakistani Ambassador, the FBI.. who else?
Oh — Egypt’s Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam’s highest authority on Islamic law — the institution America’s very own Zaytuna College, our “first” Islamic university in california, wants to model itself after.
Here we have INTERPOL inserting itself into the mix. A nice trail run ”to engage the world police body’s assistance”:
LYON, France – INTERPOL has today issued a global alert to its 188 member countries following the request of Pakistan’s Minister of the Interior, and its own determination, that if the proposed Koran burning by a pastor in the US goes ahead as planned, there is a strong likelihood that violent attacks on innocent people would follow.
Minister Rehman Malik personally contacted INTERPOL Secretary General Ronald K. Noble to engage the world police body’s assistance in warning law enforcement of the increased terrorist threat if plans reported by the media to burn the holy book were carried out on Saturday’s anniversary of the September 11 attacks.
(more at the link)
It's known as extortion, mafia style."If you don't do as we say, who knows what is going to happen to you. Some of the boys might get upset and find your family. You know how it is." It's the Chicago style.
For the longest time I thought Islam was a religion. Now I realize it's a brutal political system covered over with the gloss of a religion.
Dorothy
From World Net Daily (09/09/10)
Report: George Soros spent millions to 'undermine' judiciary
(Another Soros scheme to put citizens under control of elites)
http://tinyurl.com/2usgb3k
Dorothy,
We can't have one individual asserting his freedom to spit, stomp, or burn some other person's "holy" book if it incites others to blow up buildings and kill people drinking coffee. We must have order. We must gain control of the situation. We must impose laws that prohibit the free exercise of expression. We must stop the insanity and criminalize all forms of resistance to the NWO. You Jews, as in times past, will learn to appreciate what we can offer you. You Christians will find the AOC is sympathetic to your faith. You New Agers will be at peace under our banner. Come one, come all, to that happy place called Al Andalus.
Anonymous 11:41
I'm sure the government system you are offering is perfectly wonderful. I wouldn't challenge you on any section of it.
It's just that we haven't experienced total anarchy yet, and if I'm not mistaken, total anarchy has to come before your system. Anarchy would have us beg for some kind of leader who would provide total structure. I don't think we're ready for all that excitement as we are a conservative group here in this country. We can hardly rile up enough people to get involved with what's going on now.
Then again I think we might like to experiment with the citizens having control before we even think of anarchy, no matter how much people in Washington are trying to bring that about.
So, you will have to be patient and wait for the time your system can be tried in America. A few hundred years shouldn't be a problem for you, now would it.
Dorothy
This logo of the Democratic Alliance here in South Africa has some similar features as the one of the Obama campaign?
Love you all
moemi
http://www.da.org.za/
feet shod with the gospel of peace...
this and the fact that i am convincing no one when i approach them with "attitude"
and that thing ppl do when they show how it is done by example
catch more flies with honey ...
and a christians belief in turning the other cheek, loving ones enemy, hating the sin but loving the sinner...
with all that in mind there are still passages that tell of burning down the groves, smashing idols, and imprecatory prayer...
what do we do and when?
this is when we turn to God and prayerfully ask for His will to be made known
i think the old guy wants money and attention, and should not do it because it is a vain act
i mean really... how many muslims did he convert? 0? he has not earned the right to do this...
Dorothy,
The citizens of your country have already tried governing themselves for 200 years, and failed miserably as anyone can see.
Please consider converting to the true religion of Islam. Our shakes and imams and caliphs rule according to sharia, as it is written in the holy book. This is the only form of government that can bring peace to the earth. That is why we say "Islam is a religion of peace". It would make things a lot easier for all of us if you and your countrymen would convert sooner, peaceably, rather than later, and....well, after much unnecessary bloodshed. If this is agreeable to you, then please consider attending the Hajj.
Please be advised there are some minor restrictions for a woman such as yourself traveling alone…
Women traveling alone (must be over 45 years) without husband, brother or adolescent son, require a NOTARIZED permission letter from the husband, brother, or adolescent son, indicating that he has no objection and permits her to travel for (Hajj/Umra)…
http://www.alalaatravel.com/Requirements.htm
Of course, travel to the Hajj requires women to employ the most sensitive modesty regarding clothing choices. Some of my brothers have been remiss in enforcing these requirements even on their own wives, but you can be certain that they will be strictly enforced during the Hajj. I wouldn't want you to be stoned to death. I’m sure you understand.
On another note, as the son of a Moslem, I would expect your illustrious leader will unveil his true allegiance soon. He had to adopt, oh, how shall we say, certain... deceptions... in order to function in your ridiculously backwards society. By this I mean to say, he had to at least appear to adopt the ways of his countrymen, in order to achieve certain goals. But this waywardness was only a temporary ruse, as I’m sure many of you are now coming to understand.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=201385
Sincerely, Anon 11:41
I rather suspect the last anonymous was pulling our collective legs. Am I right?
Constance
Darn! Sniffed out! I was feeling particularly mischievous today, couldn’t help it. I don’t have a Koran to burn otherwise I would have found something better to do.
But all joking aside, this idiot’s threat to burn the Koran, or not burn the Koran as the case may be, is the perfect set up. It has empowered the proponents of the A.O.C. and moved the approaching new world disorder into overdrive. The fact that the conversation has now turned to potential “copy cats” means legislation or some kind of an executive order further curtailing our freedom of expression and advancing the A.O.C. agenda is right around the corner.
My apologies to Dorothy.
omots (a.k.a. anon 11:41 and 5:24)
Omots, no need to apologize. Your comments were so cliche I didn't take them seriously, but I decided to play along. I would have answered the second one, but I was out for a number of hours. You have a nice sense of humor.
Dorothy
I know popular opinion here is that Javier Solana is a candidate for the antichrist, and some have mentioned Obama. But look at this quote by Anonymous with the mischievous sense of humour: "On another note, as the son of a Moslem, I would expect your illustrious leader will unveil his true allegiance soon. He had to adopt, oh, how shall we say, certain... deceptions... in order to function in your ridiculously backwards society. By this I mean to say, he had to at least appear to adopt the ways of his countrymen, in order to achieve certain goals. But this waywardness was only a temporary ruse, as I’m sure many of you are now coming to understand."
Has anyone considered the possibility that the antichrist will be a Muslim at heart who goes along with the NAM's calls for consensus and unification as long as it suits his purposes to gain power, and *then* shows his true colours? Remember, Revelations says the prostitute Babylon rides the beast...but then the beast destroys Babylon!
Why would a leader destroy his own empire (the unified new world order the NAM is working towards?) Unless he secretly hated it all along...
"Farmer" (Bjorn Freiberg) has several important new pieces up at his blogspot. Although we have our deep personal differences, I respect his research -- he evidently has access to EU information not quite as freely bandied about on the web as before.
Constance
Many of you sound like Quakers and don't understand Constitutional Government nor do you seem to understand Dhimmitude: "the Islamic system of governing populations conquered by jihad wars, encompassing all of the demographic, ethnic, and religious aspects of the political system."
I suggest that some of you begin by offering your land and yourselves to Islam now and stop letting others do your fighting!
Joshua
13 ¶ And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
15 And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
slumdog ...
i do not worship the constitution, nor study it nearly every day, but i do study the bible
one thing i learned i will never forget, the evil on this earth will overcome the people of God, we will be forced into a NWO and nothing can stop that ...
dominionists would have me forfeit my martyrs crown, they would have me time travel back to this countries independence and re fight for it ...
Thank you Dorothy.
I did pick up from your previous comment that you had seen through the ruse....and your response made me smile. There's nothing wrong with your sniffer.
My comments were intended tongue in cheek, but also meant to convey the gravity (and the absurdity) of the situation.
You and I are free to convert to Islam, but a Moslem who converts to another religion is under a death threat. Anybody see a problem with that?
Moslems are free to burn flags, bibles, and decapitate people, but we can't torch a piece of paper that says "Koran" on it without inciting riots and a global killing spree. So criminalize the burning of paper, that will solve it.
Good grief!
omots
Constance 1:54 AM,
As you know, Bjorn has posted articles that mention the activities of the Alliance of Civilizations.
If Bjorn has already mentioned this on his blog, I have not seen it, but I would nevertheless like to point out that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who is a co-founder of the Alliance of Civilizations, is a disciple of Sufi Cleric Fethullah Gulen whose charter schools are suspected of being a front for radical Islamic jihadist indoctrination and recruitment!
The Gulenist teachings on the Armenian Genocide is a perfect example of how Gulen and his disciples are indoctrinating their charter school students with Gulen's revisionist version of the 1915 Armenian Genocide.
However, the Gulenist revisionism recently backfired - at least here in Massachusetts:
Backlash for Fethullah Gulen’s Jihad: U.S. Court Upholds Reality Of Armenian Genocide
by sheikyermami on August 14, 2010
Fethullah Gulen, who seeks to establish a universal caliphate, is weeping again.
The radical Turkish imam, who seeks to revive the Ottoman Empire and to establish a universal caliphate, has spent millions to convince U.S. legislators and public school administrators that the Armenian holocaust of 1915 never occurred since it was a myth perpetrated by Western historians.
But Gulen’s attempt to whitewash history has been rejected by a US appeals court, which upheld a ruling that blocks schools in the state of Massachusetts from teaching literature that denies the mass killing of Armenian Christians by Ottoman Turks in 1915 as genocide.
The ruling came in response to a 2005 lawsuit filed by the Assembly of Turkish American Associations, a US lobbying under the control of Gulen and his movement of militant Islamists. A lower court dismissed the suit in June, and the appeals court upheld that decision on Wednesday.
State curriculum in Massachusetts requires schools to teach a unit about the Armenian genocide, the Holocaust, and other “recognized human rights violations and genocides."
The appeals court ruled that “law would not allow the genocide denial actions that the plaintiffs sought.”
Historians have concluded that more than one million Armenians were killed in 1915, and contemporaneous reports from newspapers and foreign embassies often called the killings “systematic.”.....read more...
http://sheikyermami.com/2010/08/
14/backlash-for-fethullah-gulens
-jihad-u-s-court-upholds-reality
-of-armenian-genocide/
_________________________
cont...
Gulen's agenda reportedly involves the reestablishment of the Ottoman Empire ("universal caliphate") which would include the Islamic countries which were part of the former Soviet Union.
If you compare the Gulenist Movement with the Alliance of Civilizations you will find many disturbing similarities - especially in terms of the false ecumenism and desire for dialogue and mutual understanding that both entities pretend to promote.
After the attempted coup in Turkey, the Dept. of Homeland Security had been trying to deport Gulen who fled to this country in order to escape prosecution in Turkey for his suspected role in the attempted overthrow of the secular-based Kamalist government with a view to establishing an Islamist government in its place.
However, the courts - and the CIA -apparently prevailed, and now the "Pennsylvania Pasha" is going to be allowed to live here in the United States for the rest of his life if he so chooses.
I don't necessarily agree with everything Paul Williams has to say, but I have found his articles on Gulen and his movement to be very informative.
EXCLUSIVE: ARE THE CIA AND U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SUPPORTING A NEW ISLAMIC WORLD ORDER? (Part One)
by Paul Williams, Phd.
http://www.familysecuritymatters.
org/publications/id.6071/pub_detail.asp
_________________________
EXCLUSIVE: HAS THE UNIVERSAL CALIPHATE EMERGED FROM PENNSYLVANIA? IS THE CIA SERVING THE NEEDS OF AN ISLAMIST? (Part 2)
by Paul Williams, Phd.
http://teomankaiser.blogspot.com
/2010/05/paul-willianms-cia
-gulen.html
The following Paul Williams Phd. article was posted at the Israel Military Forum:
BILL GATES FUNDS GULEN ISLAMIST MOVEMENT
The Fethullah Gulen movement, which seeks to restore the Ottoman Empire, has found a friend and benefactor in Bill Gates of Microsoft fame. Mr. Gates is ranked the third wealthiest person on planet earth.
In 2007, through the Texas High School Project, the Gates Foundation shelled out $10,550,000 to the Cosmos Foundation, a Gulen enterprise that operates 25 publicly funded charter schools in Texas.
The Internal Revenue Service Form 990 for Cosmos shows that the Cosmos Foundation received $41,570,721 from taxpayers.
At present, there are 85 Gulan madrassahs (Islamic schools) in the United States, and all operate with public funding.
At the Gulen schools, students are indoctrinated in Turkish culture,language, and religion so that they may be of service in making Fethullah Gulan’s dream of a universal caliphate a reality. The madrassahs sponsor Turkish clubs, Turkish language societies, Turkish dance groups, and annual trips to Istanbul.
According to Stephen Schwartz of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, the 85 Gulen schools advance and promote Islamic beliefs; present the Ottoman Empire, which lasted from 1299 to 1923, as a golden age; and serve to rewrite history by denying the Armenian holocaust under the Turks during World War I.
Many of the teachers at these schools are Turkish émigrés with questionable credentials. Some possess H-1B non immigrant visas which should only be granted to individuals who possess “highly specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor.” The female faculty members appear in their classrooms wearing hijabs and traditional Islamic attire.
Critics can’t understand why the schools are staffed with imported elementary and secondary school teachers when thousands of trained and certified American educators are begging for teaching positions. But are the schools really subversive?
Rachel Sharon-Krespin writes: “His (Gulen’s) followers target youth in the eighth through twelfth grades, mentor and indoctrinate them in the ışıkevi, educate them in the Fethullah schools, and prepare them for future careers in legal, political, and educational professions in order to create the ruling classes of the future Islamist, Turkish state.”
Even more telling is a comment from Nurettin Veren, Gulen’s right hand man for 35 years, who said: “These schools are like shop windows. Recruitment and Islamization are carried out through nigh classes."
The use of the Islamic practice of taqiyya or deception to mask the true nature of the schools has been upheld by Gulen himself...read more...
http://www.israelmilitary.net/
showthread.php?t=14099
Aland Mizell on Fethullah Gülen's Islamist Movement
From KurdishMedia:
In May 2010 media outlets and blogs spots across the Internet discussed Bill Gates’ Ten million dollar donation to the Gulen Movement’s publically funded charter schools in Texas whose agenda is to spread his version of Islam. Did the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation not do their homework? Did they know about Gulen’s revolution? In the past Islamic groups have tried methods to impose their authority over people and take charge, but they mostly use force or violence to accomplish that goal. This kind of method gave Fethullah Gülen’s missionaries the advantage to grow fast as an alternative to these seemingly more radicalized Islamic groups...
...Why does America support Gülen’s missionaries in Central Asia and around the globe and even in the US? After the collapse of the Soviet Union the balance of power in the world changed, and more than 15 countries got their independence from the Soviet Union. There was a gap in power in the region seeking to be filled; additionally, most of these newly independent countries such as Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan were rich with the underground resources of oil, gas, gold, and other materials. However, a void for religion developed as well, so there was a competition among an Iranian brand of Islam, a Saudi Arabian version of Islam, and Gülen’s missionaries to fill the void. The US government gave its support to Gülen, because it mistakenly believed that Gülen‘s missionaries were less harmful compared to the Iranian Islamic movement Hezbollah, Saudi‘s brand of Islam Wahhbism, or other fundamentalist groups. The US thought that Gülen’s movement could be managed in the right way by using it to suit America’s purposes. Because many naively believe that Gülen’s preaches nonviolence and dialogue between the western and Muslim worlds, they let their guard down and fail to see behind his proclaimed agenda. They fail to understand that he is incrementally moving toward a return of the Islamic state such as the Ottoman Empire undertook. That is why when Gülen applied for a green card, he could not get it. Then some ex-CIA officers gave him reference letters for his application to demonstrate that he was a safe immigrant. Prior to this attempt, when Gülen could not get a green card the first time, he was looking for a place to go; if the US did not grant him a visa, he would have gone to China to continue his undercover operation...read more...
http://laurencejarvikonline.blogs
pot.com/2010/08/aland-mizell-on
-fethullah-gulens.html
The following article is a gem. I would even go as far as saying it is a must read!
THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD: THE GLOBALISTS' SECRET WEAPON
http://www.scribd.com/doc/
21006402/The-Muslim-Brotherhood
-The-Globalists-Secret-Weapon
Omots, I said you were speaking in cliches about the Islamic community. This was not how they see themselves.
A long time ago I found myself noodling around websites. I came across a speaker on Islam. His message seemed very common sense and moral. I couldn't disagree with what he was preaching. I doubt I'll find the place again, so I'm substituting this speaker who talks about seduction by Shaytan or Satan. He starts out speaking in I think Arabic but quickly moves to English. He is speaking at an Islamic conference.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/7749821
Sh.Waleed Abdulhakeem- Footsteps of Shaytan
There are many differences between Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Here are just a few.
In Islam the person doesn't go back to a body of laws and interpreters for understanding. This is the ideal in Judaism and Christianity. The latter method brings about standards for a large group of people.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/21/us/interpreting-islamic-law-for-american-muslims.html
http://tinyurl.com/23g5yc7 leads to this at the end of the article:
"...'It was doing nothing,'' he said. The council often shied away from the difficult questions facing modern Muslims, he said, like whether suicide attacks are condemned by Islam.
"Dr. Taha, the chairman, said he accepted Mr. DeLorenzo's criticism that some of the more difficult questions, like the question of whether suicide bombers violate Islamic law, have yet to be tackled.
"''I can agree with him in this regard,'' Dr. Taha said, ''because this kind of question needs a lot of research and we don't have that in our budget.''
Another difference is that Jews and Christians leave final judgment in God's hands. Muslims seem to feel that they must eliminate any "occasion of sin" that can enter the culture. It makes no difference whether the situation is real or gossip or slander. They feel the Islamic community must be kept pure. To them the culture of the West must be stopped because it lures people away from the true and holy path as they see it.
Another difference is how men and women are viewed. Islam takes the primitive route and sees women as Eve was seen, thee temptress. You never see pictures of men being stoned to death for breaking a sexual moral code. While pictures of the murder of daughters are numerous, I have yet to see a picture of a son being killed for any reason by his mother.
There is a parallel between some Christian groups who condemn to hell anyone outside of their belief system. The followers of Islam believe in the same way, only they take into their hands what the Christians believe should only happen after death.
Here are some websites that show how Islam is taught in schools.
http://www.oismidwest.org/
http://www.dawanet.com/tips/Preach.asp
Dorothy
Dorothy,
Islam's attitude toward corrupt systems, is bit leftist. Muslims think that by destroying Western freedoms they can get rid of immoral behaviour etc, and curb things by Sharia law. The leftists think that by destroying capitalism etc they can eliminate injustice.
What they don't understand is that changing a system won't change people. It would just be another form of forced legislation.
Savvy
Constance,
Do you think Deepak Chopra's new book on Muhammad, is another challenge to Monotheism and an attempt to separate the Moderate Muslims from the extremists and put us all in the extremist camp.
Savvy
Yes Savvy, you've made a good point. Putting in the words "Utopia Islam" into a web search brings up many websites with the comparison.
Dorothy
The WAR is on FUNDAMENTALISM -- Jewish (Orthodox), Catholic (Traditionalists and others who will not accept forms of polytheism), Protestant Fundamentalists (excluding 'evangelical compromisers of the C Street Center / Doug Coe / Paul Temple variety), and Moslems. The strategy is to pit the 'fundamentalist' factors of all religions against the fundamentalist factors of the competing religions and then to set all 'moderates' (i.e. SUFIS) against ALL FUNDAMENTALISTS. One is ALLOWED to have a religion in the NEW WORLD ORDER. One is NOT,however, allowed to believe it TRUE.
What we are seeing is a sophisticated and accelerated push toward the New Agers long awaited NEW WORLD RELIGION and the ALLIANCE OF CIVILIZATIONS is a major tool to get it there.
Constance
AMEN, Constance!!!
Constance,
You are spot on!
The following is from Fethullah Gulen's own website:
TURKEY'S CONTRIBUTIONS TO WORLD PEACE DISCUSSED AT ATLANTA CONFERENCE
An international conference on the "Alliance of Civilizations" during which the role of Turkey in working toward world peace and understanding between cultures was discussed was held between Jan. 29 and 31 in Atlanta.
Dozens of internationally renowned academics attended the conference to underline the importance of Turkey, which they praised for its contributions to world peace and the alliance of civilizations. A number of topics, including "Religion and Peace," "Turkey: A Place Where Cultures Meet," "Harmony and Dialogue between Religions," "Point of View and the Press" and "Religion, Identity and Multiculturalism," were discussed during the three-day conference.
UN Secretary-General Ban-Ki Moon sent a congratulatory message to the conference in which he stressed that the world was in need of dialogue and tolerance more than ever. "The UN aims to build bridges between cultures through such projects," read the message.
Ömer Taşpınar, an academic at the Brookings Institution, argued that Turkey's membership in the EU would not only serve to strengthen the alliance of civilizations but would also foster efforts to curb terrorism.
Cihan TV Network General Manager Abdülhamit Bilici said 53 percent of the Turkish population favors the idea of joining the EU. "Turkey has covered a long distance in the last few years in the fields of economy and democracy. We discussed a wide range of topics in Turkey, from secularism to Islam and from democracy to national identities. Our Kurdish citizens, who were once considered Turks living in the mountains, now have a TV station that broadcasts in their language," Bilici noted.
http://www.fethullahgulen.org/
press-room/news/3200-turkeys
-contributions-to-world-peace
-discussed-at-atlanta
-conference.html
Dr. Omer Taspinar is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, where he directs the U.S.- Turkey Project.
Why would Satan be against all fundamentalist religions?
Why would he be against Islam?
Satan doesn't want people to come to know Christ, and Muslims do not know Christ.
These are just some thoughts that have been running through my head, watching all of this unfold with Jones and Rauf. First we have heavy coverage of the attempt to build a mosque near ground zero. Initial reports simply referenced it as a Muslim Mosque, no more, no less. Then reports pour in about Jones' threats of Koran burning, even though he initially stated his intention months ago.
As heat increased on both sides, the media shifted gears and changed the focus, showing the populace that the plans were for a Sufi Mosque with a interfaith flare. Jones then comes forward and is practically begging Rauf or Obama to talk him out of his planned bonfire.
Now media focus is on how the mosque should be seen as a chance for peace and bridging gaps between faiths. Am I the only one who sees a perfect example of the Hegelian Dialectic at work here?
JD...
Good point! I see it too! Our minds are being played with on some many issues on so many levels.
Dave in CA
Another anon. weighing in and agreeing this is The Dialectic we're watching being used on the masses. The same way the Republican and Democrat factions are used to manipulate the masses. Which is why those in power fight like demons to keep it a two-party system.
have a look at bennjamin creme (q and a )on his latest update
Q. If I want to live and work for world peace I tend to live in a way which my parents disapprove of. Should I choose to live correctly for the bigger vision even though that would mean I would be disobeying my parents?
A. I would say, be yourself. If you have to have your parents’ permission to live correctly, there must be something wrong with their ideas. If you have a vision and you believe it to be the right vision you have to follow that. How could you do otherwise
Amanda
notic how there must be something wrong the the parents ideas.
that sad thank god i have raised my boys
Amanda
Anonymous 4:22
Satan does not want anyone to believe in a God separate from themselves. He wants man to believe man is God. It is not just the Christian Christ he is fighting against, but the monotheistic faiths that believe in a God that judges man.
All religions and people that believe in a God as a being that we must submit our will to and be judged by, Satan is working hard against. It is clear in studying the new age movement who exactly those people are he is attacking: Christianity, Islam and Judaism.
Satan is not just fighting those that believe in Christ. He is fighting all those that believe in a God that we are to submit to. The true humble followers of the God of Abraham.
That is the new age agenda. To destroy all those that believe in a God that is a supreme being that man must answer too, that all blessings come from and who will judge all mankind. Then Satan replaces that idea with the idea we are all "gods". Then man will turn and worship him as our leader or "god" that has taught us this belief.
Bella
All,
New post up over at my blog.
www.jd-thedevilisinthedetails.blogspot.com
Bella,
You've spelled out the NA agenda quite well. In the end, it all seems to boil down to rebellion.
From the very beginning, Satan desired God’s throne. Failing to win that, he turned his attention to stealing our worship away from our Father, the Creator God, any way he can.
True, the New Agers are all about elevating the earth, or the self, or perhaps some genetically modified or "spiritually advanced" superhuman to the place of “god”. The "man of sin" exalteth himself and seeks worship of himself. (2 Thess 2:3,4) But self-worship is not any more or less worthy of condemnation than the worship of angels, or the worship of false gods such as Gaia, Lucifer, OR the very monotheistic Allah. Satan is certainly capable of playing many sides and using many weapons simultaneously, but in the end, he accomplishes only the purposes allowed by God, purposes which were set out for him by God BEFORE time began.
I’m convinced Satan’s most deceptive weapon is the promotion of syncretism, or "unity", (a.k.a. the Alliance of Civilizations), whereby we all "get along" by accepting some grand spiritual compromise that declares all three “monotheistic” faiths to be equals among many. This is exactly what God despises more than anything else. (Ex 34:14)
The revealing of "the man of sin" is THE sign of the end. Wars, famines, and pestilences and the “great falling away” are but precursors to this apocalyptic event. (2 Thess 2:1,3; 1Tim 4:1). Warfare between nations, including any advertised as occurring between the so-called three great "monotheistic faiths", (i.e. "brother against brother") is ordained by God. (Mk 13:8, Lk 21:10, Mt 24:7)
It is God Himself who divides the nations. (Ex 8:23) It is Christ Himself who causes division. (Lk 12:5) The greatest good does not come by attaining peace and unity at the cost of losing one’s soul, but is obtained through the blood of the martyrs standing firm in the faith. (Rev 2:10; 17:6; Col 1:20).
Likewise, the greatest threat we face is not violence or death, but "falling away" from the faith, which in my book reads compromise.
"For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish." (Ps. 1:6)
omots
If science is your god, here's your future...
http://science.dodlive.mil/2010/09/01/remote-control-of-brain-activity-using-ultrasound/
http://tinyurl.com/3xr9ng8
I just talked with Constance and she asked for our prayers. She is feeling ill and she is having trouble with hearing.
Rich
Constance:
We are praying for you and for a quick return to full health.
Dave in CA
OMOTS "Babeled" it perfectly; sadly there "are none so blind as those who will not see!"
"I’m convinced Satan’s most deceptive weapon is the promotion of syncretism, or "unity", (a.k.a. the Alliance of Civilizations), whereby we all "get along" by accepting some grand spiritual compromise that declares all three “monotheistic” faiths to be equals among many. This is exactly what God despises more than anything else. (Ex 34:14)"
From ABC News (09/12/10):
OIL FROM THE BP SPILL FOUND AT BOTTOM OF GULF
Oil from the BP spill has not been completely cleared, but miles of it is sitting at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, according to a study currently under way.
Professor Samantha Joye of the Department of Marine Sciences at the University of Georgia, who is conducting a study on a research vessel just two miles from the spill zone, said the oil has not disappeared, but is on the sea floor in a layer of scum.
"We're finding it everywhere that we've looked. The oil is not gone," Joye said. "It's in places where nobody has looked for it."
All 13 of the core samples Joye and her UGA team have collected from the bottom of the gulf are showing oil from the spill, she said.
In an interview with ABC News from her vessel, Joye said the oil cannot be natural seepage into the gulf, because the cores they've tested are showing oil only at the top. With natural seepage, the oil would spread from the top to the bottom of the core, she said.
"It looks like you just took a strip of very sticky material and just passed it through the water column and all the stuff from the water column got stuck to it, and got transported to the bottom," Joye said. "I know what a natural seep looks like -- this is not natural seepage."
In some areas the oily material that Joye describes is more than two inches thick. Her team found the material as far as 70 miles away from BP's well.
"If we're seeing two and half inches of oil 16 miles away, God knows what we'll see close in -- I really can't even guess other than to say it's going to be a whole lot more than two and a half inches," Joye said.
This oil remaining underwater has large implications for the state of sea life at the bottom of the gulf.
Joye said she spent hours studying the core samples and was unable to find anything other than bacteria and microorganisms living within.
"There is nothing living in these cores other than bacteria," she said. "I've yet to see a living shrimp, a living worm, nothing."
Studies conducted by the University of Georgia and the University of South Florida caused controversy back in August when they found that almost 80 percent of the oil that leaked from BP's well is still out in the waters of the Gulf.
Their report stood in stark contrast to that of the federal government, which on Aug. 4 declared that 74 percent of the oil was gone, having broken down or been cleaned up.
"A report out today by our scientists shows that the vast majority of the spilled oil has been dispersed or removed from the water," President Obama said in August.
The studies by Joye and other scientists found that what the government had reported to the public only meant that the oil still lurked, invisible in the water.
For more...
http://tinyurl.com/2u9uqrz
From ABC News (09/12/10):
OIL FROM THE BP SPILL FOUND AT BOTTOM OF GULF
Oil from the BP spill has not been completely cleared, but miles of it is sitting at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, according to a study currently under way.
Professor Samantha Joye of the Department of Marine Sciences at the University of Georgia, who is conducting a study on a research vessel just two miles from the spill zone, said the oil has not disappeared, but is on the sea floor in a layer of scum.
"We're finding it everywhere that we've looked. The oil is not gone," Joye said. "It's in places where nobody has looked for it."
All 13 of the core samples Joye and her UGA team have collected from the bottom of the gulf are showing oil from the spill, she said.
In an interview with ABC News from her vessel, Joye said the oil cannot be natural seepage into the gulf, because the cores they've tested are showing oil only at the top. With natural seepage, the oil would spread from the top to the bottom of the core, she said.
"It looks like you just took a strip of very sticky material and just passed it through the water column and all the stuff from the water column got stuck to it, and got transported to the bottom," Joye said. "I know what a natural seep looks like -- this is not natural seepage."
In some areas the oily material that Joye describes is more than two inches thick. Her team found the material as far as 70 miles away from BP's well.
"If we're seeing two and half inches of oil 16 miles away, God knows what we'll see close in -- I really can't even guess other than to say it's going to be a whole lot more than two and a half inches," Joye said.
This oil remaining underwater has large implications for the state of sea life at the bottom of the gulf.
Joye said she spent hours studying the core samples and was unable to find anything other than bacteria and microorganisms living within.
"There is nothing living in these cores other than bacteria," she said. "I've yet to see a living shrimp, a living worm, nothing."
Studies conducted by the University of Georgia and the University of South Florida caused controversy back in August when they found that almost 80 percent of the oil that leaked from BP's well is still out in the waters of the Gulf.
Their report stood in stark contrast to that of the federal government, which on Aug. 4 declared that 74 percent of the oil was gone, having broken down or been cleaned up.
"A report out today by our scientists shows that the vast majority of the spilled oil has been dispersed or removed from the water," President Obama said in August.
The studies by Joye and other scientists found that what the government had reported to the public only meant that the oil still lurked, invisible in the water.
For more...
http://tinyurl.com/2u9uqrz
From ABC News (09/12/10):
OIL FROM THE BP SPILL FOUND AT BOTTOM OF GULF
Oil from the BP spill has not been completely cleared, but miles of it is sitting at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, according to a study currently under way.
Professor Samantha Joye of the Department of Marine Sciences at the University of Georgia, who is conducting a study on a research vessel just two miles from the spill zone, said the oil has not disappeared, but is on the sea floor in a layer of scum.
"We're finding it everywhere that we've looked. The oil is not gone," Joye said. "It's in places where nobody has looked for it."
All 13 of the core samples Joye and her UGA team have collected from the bottom of the gulf are showing oil from the spill, she said.
In an interview with ABC News from her vessel, Joye said the oil cannot be natural seepage into the gulf, because the cores they've tested are showing oil only at the top. With natural seepage, the oil would spread from the top to the bottom of the core, she said.
"It looks like you just took a strip of very sticky material and just passed it through the water column and all the stuff from the water column got stuck to it, and got transported to the bottom," Joye said. "I know what a natural seep looks like -- this is not natural seepage."
In some areas the oily material that Joye describes is more than two inches thick. Her team found the material as far as 70 miles away from BP's well.
"If we're seeing two and half inches of oil 16 miles away, God knows what we'll see close in -- I really can't even guess other than to say it's going to be a whole lot more than two and a half inches," Joye said.
This oil remaining underwater has large implications for the state of sea life at the bottom of the gulf.
Joye said she spent hours studying the core samples and was unable to find anything other than bacteria and microorganisms living within.
"There is nothing living in these cores other than bacteria," she said. "I've yet to see a living shrimp, a living worm, nothing."
Studies conducted by the University of Georgia and the University of South Florida caused controversy back in August when they found that almost 80 percent of the oil that leaked from BP's well is still out in the waters of the Gulf.
Their report stood in stark contrast to that of the federal government, which on Aug. 4 declared that 74 percent of the oil was gone, having broken down or been cleaned up.
"A report out today by our scientists shows that the vast majority of the spilled oil has been dispersed or removed from the water," President Obama said in August.
The studies by Joye and other scientists found that what the government had reported to the public only meant that the oil still lurked, invisible in the water.
For more...
http://tinyurl.com/2u9uqrz
From ABC News (09/12/10):
OIL FROM THE BP SPILL FOUND AT BOTTOM OF GULF
Oil from the BP spill has not been completely cleared, but miles of it is sitting at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, according to a study currently under way.
Professor Samantha Joye of the Department of Marine Sciences at the University of Georgia, who is conducting a study on a research vessel just two miles from the spill zone, said the oil has not disappeared, but is on the sea floor in a layer of scum.
"We're finding it everywhere that we've looked. The oil is not gone," Joye said. "It's in places where nobody has looked for it."
All 13 of the core samples Joye and her UGA team have collected from the bottom of the gulf are showing oil from the spill, she said.
In an interview with ABC News from her vessel, Joye said the oil cannot be natural seepage into the gulf, because the cores they've tested are showing oil only at the top. With natural seepage, the oil would spread from the top to the bottom of the core, she said.
"It looks like you just took a strip of very sticky material and just passed it through the water column and all the stuff from the water column got stuck to it, and got transported to the bottom," Joye said. "I know what a natural seep looks like -- this is not natural seepage."
In some areas the oily material that Joye describes is more than two inches thick. Her team found the material as far as 70 miles away from BP's well.
"If we're seeing two and half inches of oil 16 miles away, God knows what we'll see close in -- I really can't even guess other than to say it's going to be a whole lot more than two and a half inches," Joye said.
This oil remaining underwater has large implications for the state of sea life at the bottom of the gulf.
Joye said she spent hours studying the core samples and was unable to find anything other than bacteria and microorganisms living within.
"There is nothing living in these cores other than bacteria," she said. "I've yet to see a living shrimp, a living worm, nothing."
Studies conducted by the University of Georgia and the University of South Florida caused controversy back in August when they found that almost 80 percent of the oil that leaked from BP's well is still out in the waters of the Gulf.
Their report stood in stark contrast to that of the federal government, which on Aug. 4 declared that 74 percent of the oil was gone, having broken down or been cleaned up.
"A report out today by our scientists shows that the vast majority of the spilled oil has been dispersed or removed from the water," President Obama said in August.
The studies by Joye and other scientists found that what the government had reported to the public only meant that the oil still lurked, invisible in the water.
For more...
http://tinyurl.com/2u9uqrz
From ABC News (09/12/10):
OIL FROM THE BP SPILL FOUND AT BOTTOM OF GULF
Oil from the BP spill has not been completely cleared, but miles of it is sitting at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, according to a study currently under way.
Professor Samantha Joye of the Department of Marine Sciences at the University of Georgia, who is conducting a study on a research vessel just two miles from the spill zone, said the oil has not disappeared, but is on the sea floor in a layer of scum.
"We're finding it everywhere that we've looked. The oil is not gone," Joye said. "It's in places where nobody has looked for it."
All 13 of the core samples Joye and her UGA team have collected from the bottom of the gulf are showing oil from the spill, she said.
In an interview with ABC News from her vessel, Joye said the oil cannot be natural seepage into the gulf, because the cores they've tested are showing oil only at the top. With natural seepage, the oil would spread from the top to the bottom of the core, she said.
"It looks like you just took a strip of very sticky material and just passed it through the water column and all the stuff from the water column got stuck to it, and got transported to the bottom," Joye said. "I know what a natural seep looks like -- this is not natural seepage."
In some areas the oily material that Joye describes is more than two inches thick. Her team found the material as far as 70 miles away from BP's well.
"If we're seeing two and half inches of oil 16 miles away, God knows what we'll see close in -- I really can't even guess other than to say it's going to be a whole lot more than two and a half inches," Joye said.
This oil remaining underwater has large implications for the state of sea life at the bottom of the gulf.
Joye said she spent hours studying the core samples and was unable to find anything other than bacteria and microorganisms living within.
"There is nothing living in these cores other than bacteria," she said. "I've yet to see a living shrimp, a living worm, nothing."
Studies conducted by the University of Georgia and the University of South Florida caused controversy back in August when they found that almost 80 percent of the oil that leaked from BP's well is still out in the waters of the Gulf.
Their report stood in stark contrast to that of the federal government, which on Aug. 4 declared that 74 percent of the oil was gone, having broken down or been cleaned up.
"A report out today by our scientists shows that the vast majority of the spilled oil has been dispersed or removed from the water," President Obama said in August.
The studies by Joye and other scientists found that what the government had reported to the public only meant that the oil still lurked, invisible in the water.
For more...
http://tinyurl.com/2u9uqrz
From ABC News (09/12/10):
OIL FROM THE BP SPILL FOUND AT BOTTOM OF GULF
Oil from the BP spill has not been completely cleared, but miles of it is sitting at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, according to a study currently under way.
Professor Samantha Joye of the Department of Marine Sciences at the University of Georgia, who is conducting a study on a research vessel just two miles from the spill zone, said the oil has not disappeared, but is on the sea floor in a layer of scum.
"We're finding it everywhere that we've looked. The oil is not gone," Joye said. "It's in places where nobody has looked for it."
All 13 of the core samples Joye and her UGA team have collected from the bottom of the gulf are showing oil from the spill, she said.
In an interview with ABC News from her vessel, Joye said the oil cannot be natural seepage into the gulf, because the cores they've tested are showing oil only at the top. With natural seepage, the oil would spread from the top to the bottom of the core, she said.
"It looks like you just took a strip of very sticky material and just passed it through the water column and all the stuff from the water column got stuck to it, and got transported to the bottom," Joye said. "I know what a natural seep looks like -- this is not natural seepage."
In some areas the oily material that Joye describes is more than two inches thick. Her team found the material as far as 70 miles away from BP's well.
"If we're seeing two and half inches of oil 16 miles away, God knows what we'll see close in -- I really can't even guess other than to say it's going to be a whole lot more than two and a half inches," Joye said.
This oil remaining underwater has large implications for the state of sea life at the bottom of the gulf.
Joye said she spent hours studying the core samples and was unable to find anything other than bacteria and microorganisms living within.
"There is nothing living in these cores other than bacteria," she said. "I've yet to see a living shrimp, a living worm, nothing."
Studies conducted by the University of Georgia and the University of South Florida caused controversy back in August when they found that almost 80 percent of the oil that leaked from BP's well is still out in the waters of the Gulf.
(Contiued . . .)
Their report stood in stark contrast to that of the federal government, which on Aug. 4 declared that 74 percent of the oil was gone, having broken down or been cleaned up.
"A report out today by our scientists shows that the vast majority of the spilled oil has been dispersed or removed from the water," President Obama said in August.
The studies by Joye and other scientists found that what the government had reported to the public only meant that the oil still lurked, invisible in the water.
For more...
http://tinyurl.com/2u9uqrz
Anonymous 7:26
There's a reason that the POTUS created a National Health Council implementing Codex Alimentarius via executive order back in June while no one was watching. Then he created his National Ocean Council the very next month via executive order during the Shirley Sherrod debacle. People who have been paying attention know that this gulf oil spill hasn't disappeared the way we were told that it had. It simply disappeared into the environment and food chain.
After the election is over, I believe the gov't will suddenly 'realize' that the Gulf and its people have been poisoned. They will then use that to implement additional executive orders, designed not to protect the people, but to add tyranny to its list of assaults and exploits.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-balkan-war-lawsuit-20100905,0,4744078,full.story
I am praying for you Constance!
YesNaSpanishTown
Anon. 8:42
Yep that sounds like the U.S.
government that I know.
Constance,
I'm praying for your health and
peace of mind, in spite of
everything.
Whatever I've got has settled in my head. My right ear is completely blocked and the left ear could be better!
My nose is dry. Very strange!
Constance
Constance
Some sinus infections can give you those symptoms and also ear infections. They do not always come with a runny nose. I have had both of those with the symptoms you described.
I hope you feel better soon. I am praying for you.
Bella
Constance,
It does sound like a nasty sinus infection more than a ear infection. In either case I will make sure to pray for you.
You are in my prayers Constance.
Savvy
Constance,
You are in my prayers as well.
I have had colds that began in my ears with no runny nose. Not fun.
It's not a cultural center or a mosque. It's a rabat.
http://planet-iran.com/index.php/news/23553
Islam center’s eerie echo of ancient terrorSeptember 10, 2010
Should there be a mosque near Ground Zero? In fact, what is proposed is not a
mosque — nor even an “Islamic cultural center.”
".....In fact, the proposed structure is known in Islamic history as a rabat —
literally a connector. The first rabat appeared at the time of the Prophet.
The Prophet imposed his rule on parts of Arabia through a series of ghazvas, or
razzias (the origin of the English word “raid”). The ghazva was designed to
terrorize the infidels, convince them that their civilization was doomed and
force them to submit to Islamic rule. Those who participated in the ghazva
were known as the ghazis, or raiders.
After each ghazva, the Prophet ordered the creation of a rabat — or a point of
contact at the heart of the infidel territory raided. The rabat consisted of an
area for prayer, a section for the raiders to eat and rest and facilities to
train and prepare for future razzias. Later Muslim rulers used the tactic of
ghazva to conquer territory in the Persian and Byzantine empires. After each
raid, they built a rabat to prepare for the next razzia.
It is no coincidence that Islamists routinely use the term ghazva to describe
the 9/11 attacks against New York and Washington. The terrorists who carried
out the attack are referred to as ghazis or shahids (martyrs).
Thus, building a rabat close to Ground Zero would be in accordance with a
tradition started by the Prophet. To all those who believe and hope that the
9/11 ghazva would lead to the destruction of the American “Great Satan,” this
would be of great symbolic value.
Faced with the anger of New Yorkers, the promoters of the project have started
calling it the Cordoba House, echoing President Obama’s assertion that it
would be used to propagate “moderate” Islam.
The argument is that Cordoba, in southern Spain, was a city where followers of
Islam, Christianity and Judaism lived together in peace and produced
literature and philosophy.
In fact, Cordoba’s history is full of stories of oppression and massacre,
prompted by religious fanaticism. It is true that the Muslim rulers of Cordoba
didn’t force their Christian and Jewish subjects to accept Islam. However,
non-Muslims could keep their faith and enjoy state protection only as dhimmis
(bonded ones) by paying a poll tax in a system of religious apartheid.
If whatever peace and harmony that is supposed to have existed in Cordoba were
the fruit of “Muslim rule,” the subtext is that the United States would enjoy
similar peace and harmony under Islamic rule.
A rabat in the heart of Manhattan would be of great symbolic value to those who
want a high-profile, “in your face” projection of Islam in the infidel West.
This thirst for visibility is translated into increasingly provocative forms of
hijab, notably the niqab (mask) and the burqa. The same quest mobilized
hundreds of Muslims in Paris the other day to close a whole street so that
they could have a Ramadan prayer in the middle of the rush hour....."
This fits in with what I saw just over a year ago in Oak Lawn, Illinois.
Dorothy
I did not see this yet reported:
EXCLUSIVE: After a Year of Setbacks, U.N. Looks to Take Charge of World's Agenda
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/09/08/years-setbacks-looks-world-leader/?test=latestnews
...Nonetheless, position papers for the meeting obtained by Fox News indicate that the topics included:
-- how to restore “climate change” as a top global priority after the fiasco of last year’s Copenhagen summit;
-- how to continue to try to make global redistribution of wealth the real basis of that climate agenda, and widen the discussion further to encompass the idea of “global public goods”;
-- how to keep growing U.N. peacekeeping efforts into missions involved in the police, courts, legal systems and other aspects of strife-torn countries;
-- how to capitalize on the global tide of migrants from poor nations to rich ones, to encompass a new “international migration governance framework”;
-- how to make “clever” use of new technologies to deepen direct ties with what the U.N. calls “civil society,” meaning novel ways to bypass its member nation states and deal directly with constituencies that support U.N. agendas.
cont:
cont:
Austria Retreat Papers:
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/austria_retreat_papers.pdf
...We already know the elements of the response: nothing less than a global transformation of the economy is needed, one based on clean energy resources coupled with the proper policy framework and market incentives to support it. Nothing is more crucial to prevent run-away climate change than lifting billions out of poverty, protecting our planet, and fostering long-term peace and prosperity for all. (page 5)
The document stresses the importance of completing the UN MDGs which only have 5 years remaining to be on schedule (page 13).
I don't have time to review the rest...
I see the url did not make it above:
http://tinyurl.com/2foqc2t
Also, continuing on Dorothy's posting, and maybe it was covered here multiple times already, but once the Muslims claim land, they refuse to give it up. So with the 9-11 attack, I suppose them to be viewing that now as official Muslim ground at Ground Zero. I am ambivalent about the matter, but I lean heavily to the idea that it is very unwise to allow the mosque/cultural center/rabat to be built in that spot. I also see on Drudge that many construction workers have said they will boycott the building of the structure. Good for them!
This comment has to do with a Catholic Christian apostate priest named Father Hans Kung.
As many here already know, dissenting Roman Catholic priest Father Hans Kung is affiliated with a so-called "interfaith bridgebuilding organization" called the United Religions Initiative.
Apparently, the false ecumenism and religious syncretism it embodies square well with what Kung imagines to be the so-called "spirit of Vatican II."
I use the word "imagines," in reference to Kung's interpretation of the meaning of Vatican II because according to the Most Rev. Michael Smith, Bishop of Meath in Ireland, ( who attended ALL of the sessions of the Second Vatican Council ) Kung's actual involvement ( or lack thereof ) with the drafting of the documents of Vatican II was such as to render his claim to be a qualified "interpreter" of the Council documents incredible if not downright mendacious!
Bishop Smith's comments come in the wake of a so-called "open letter to the church written by Kung which is basically a rehash of his usual "pronunciamentos" which he would have us think are "infallible" - even as he hypocritically decries the Catholic teaching on Papal infallibility. This denial of papal infallibility goes tandem with certain other opinions which, among other things, place the divinity of Christ in doubt.
Kung even dares to try to use the Bible in order to do this in his book DOES GOD EXIST.
Here is Bishop Smith's article.
KUNG INVOKES SPIRIT OF VATICAN COUNCIL HE HARDLY SAW
Sept. 14, 2010
RITE AND REASON: Hans Küng is less qualified than most to criticise the pope
ON THURSDAY Pope Benedict will begin his visit to Britain. It will end next Sunday with the beatification of Cardinal John Henry Newman in Birmingham. The theme of the papal visit is “Heart speaks onto heart”, a motto Cardinal Newman chose for his coat of arms.
It is fitting that Cardinal Newman should be beatified. This great scholar’s reverence for the Bible and his writings on the laity have a special connection to the Second Vatican Council. He made an urgent plea for laity to be fully recognised in the church, and believed faith was a matter of both head and heart.
A moving example of Pope Benedict speaking from the heart was his very helpful Pastoral Letter to the Catholics of Ireland last March. He says “with words that come from my heart ... I wish to speak to each of you individually and to all of you as brothers and sisters in the Lord.” He speaks of wounds inflicted on Christ’s body by child sexual abuse and of the sometimes painful remedies needed to bind and heal them.
After that letter, Dr Hans Küng wrote what he described as an open letter to the church. It was deeply critical of Pope Benedict, those working in the Roman Curia and “subservient” bishops.
It contained factual errors, eg that Pope Benedict had taken bishops of the traditionalist Pius X Society back into the church without precondition.
Running through the piece was an infallibility no pope would claim. He spoke of the betrayal by successive popes and the Curia of the “spirit” of the Vatican Council, without defining what exactly that “spirit” was.
But it is his claim to be the true interpreter of the documents of the Vatican Council that I find most difficult to accept, given the reality of his involvement with it.
cont.....
Craig,
Thanks for posting this. While there isn't a great deal of new information contained, it does give us a heads up of what to expect in the near future.
Constance,
Sorry for your ear problems. It could be a sphenoid sinusitis. the staff goes down the throat and the inflammation make the turbinate of the nose to make weigh against the ear. It is painful. This sinusitis needs to be diagnose by a specialist and treated. I had first an expansive exam (scanner), but the specialist goes directly to see it.
excuse my English.. and all my best wishes
Frences
Attention, Attention, Attention:
Spain Recognizes Non-Existent Palestinian State
http://tinyurl.com/2eu43av
or
http://www.onejerusalem.org/2010/09/spain-recognizes-non-existent.php
Constance:
I have had a history of sinus infectios over the years.
My suggestion is that you get a referral and make an appointment with an Ear, Nose & Throat specialist so he can evaluate you and run some tests.
If one of your ears is blocked, you might just need to have your ears irrigated - a simple procedure done in the ENT's office.
Afterward, you will feel like you've been 'reborn' (as it is so uncomfortable to go around with one or both ears blocked).
My thoughts and prayers are with you. (I do feel your pain.)
Y
Social Engineering Bill In Senate Will Force You Into City
http://tinyurl.com/3ygm2x2
This is a opinion piece, but one of the responders actually posted the Bill itself in attempt to detract from the article. Unfortunately for said individual they don't know the jargon used within the Bill, as it actually proves the point of the article.
CORN SYRUP PRODUCERS TO CHANGE NAME TO 'CORN SUGAR' AS AWARENESS OVER HEALTH CONCERNS GROW
Bad press over health concerns has affected sales for the corn syrup industry and as a result the Associated Press reported today that corn syrup producers want to "sweeten up its image with a new name: corn sugar." The article explained:
The bid to rename the sweetener by the Corn Refiners Association comes as Americans' concerns about health and obesity have sent consumption of high fructose corn syrup, used in soft drinks but also in bread, cereal and other foods, to a 20-year low.
For more . . .
http://www.activistpost.com/2010/09
/corn-syrup-producers-to-change-
name-to.html
As you read the information at the link JD gave, remember what you've read about rewilding.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=could-re-wilding-avert-6th-great-extinction
http://tinyurl.com/yaemw74
"...Conservation biologists have developed a number of methods for restoring
the balance between ourselves and nature, for saving biodiversity. The most
exciting and promising of these methods is rewilding. Proposing conservation
and ecological restoration on a scale previously unimagined, rewilding has
become a principal method for designing, connecting, and restoring protected areas—the ultimate weapon in the fight against fragmentation. Michael Soulé and a colleague, Reed Noss, formulated the essence of the new discipline in a 1998 paper, “Rewilding and Biodiversity: Complementary Goals for Continental
Conservation.” In it, they boiled the requirements down to three words: “Cores,
Corridors, and Carnivores.” Core protected areas had long been a feature of conservation design, but Soulé and Noss described national parks and wildlife refuges as only the beginning, the kernels from which larger, mightier
protected areas must grow. Cores, they argued, must be continental in scale,
preserving entire ecosystems: mountain forests, grasslands, tundra, savannah. Corridors were necessary to reestablish links between cores, because isolation and fragmentation of wilderness areas erode biodiversity: They enabled wildlife to migrate and disperse. And carnivores were crucial to maintaining the
regulatory mechanisms keeping ecosystems healthy, harking back to those chaparral canyons. ..."
We will be in the cages and the animals will roam free.
Dorothy
I'm on total bed rest (sneaked out to write this) -- lots of fluids and sleep to try to lick what appears to be an inner ear infection.
Constance
If it's sinus, it's the dryest nose I have ever had -- the doctor has not seen me yet -- I was too dizzy to entrust myself to the wheel, but he has kept in telephone contact with me. We love Dr. Fermil!
Constance
Constance,
Ask for Prednisone.
It works !
One of the important prophecies of the Book of Revelation concerned the Rider on the Pale Horse -- read that carefully --
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given to them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." Rev. 6:8
"And the BEASTS OF THE EARTH" -- this "wilding project" would certainly help make that a reality, would it not?
Constance
The RE-wilding Institute lists a number of “wounds” caused by human activity that need “healing”. Foremost among these “wounds” is human overpopulation, which is viewed as the fundamental cause for all the other “wounds”.
The key to RE-wilding America has been, and continues to be, the RE-introduction of the wolf. Wolves have been elevated to near “god-like” status by the environmentalists. For good reason.
Ungulate species (specifically elk and moose) make up the bulk of the wolf diet. Because of human habitation and activity, these prey species have limited ranges restricting their capability for migration, which historically was their best chance at escaping wolf predation and maintaining healthy populations. These prey species are now being systematically eliminated in all habitats where wolves are currently being allowed to propagate without limit. Other species such as grizzly bears and mountain lions are becoming increasingly aggressive due to the increased competition for the available food supply.
We will soon see a very public outcry from sportsman’s groups, as well as segments of the environmental lobby, demanding increased protection of ungulate species from what is now properly described as a “population crash”.
Migration corridors and expansive core areas must be established if ungulates are to have any chance of surviving the increasing predation pressure from un-managed wolf populations.
Wildlife managers in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming have become extremely frustrated by court orders mandating a hands off approach to wolf population management. Wolves are deemed “untouchable” by the greens because they understand that wolves must be allowed to increase beyond the carrying capacity of their now limited ranges in order to facilitate a population crash of prey species. They plan to use this crash, and the resulting public outcry, to force the RE-wilding of America.
RE-wilding RE-quires the elimination of private property rights and severe RE-strictions on nearly all human activity including a massive RE-duction in the agricultural base (human food production).
A crash in the human population serves their agenda quite well.
See
http://www.rewilding.org/wounds.html
omots
Another thought, Constance is that if you're experiencing dizziness (along with a feeling of fullness in one ear), it could be a sign of Vertigo or some other inner ear problem.
Either way, please consider asking your regular physician to recommend an ear, nose and throat specialist to diagnose the problem.
Continued prayers.
OMOTS,
Sportsman groups are making a lot of noise about re-wilding, they are being ignored by media and larger groups that could help them. Much of the reason for this is because men like Ted Nugent who have very public profiles, crow about benefits to hunters within managed areas. They are capable to do so, because at this point only a limited amount of hunts are allowed within the areas, which allows for a extremely skewed statistical compilation to be made.
If adopted nationally like many hope, either these numbers will dive, or extreme limits to the number of hunts allowed will be imposed. I suspect the latter will be the case. I have hunted areas such as Babcock Ranch in Florida, which at the time was a 93,000 acre cattle ranch and conservation area (it has since been sold and much less land is used for conservation)and have been all over the Cecil M. Webb Wildlife Management area both before and after it was turned into a conservation area.
I can honestly say Webb showed little difference, as the land had never been used by hunters, but was a place where ATV enthusiasts went and the places where animals congregated was unridable, while where riders went was basically uninhabitable. The hunts on Babcock were always good, but one can expect that when only around two dozen people are allowed to hunt 93,000 acres in a given year.
I could get into the reintroduction of animals in certain parts of the country, as wolves are really only one animal this is being done with. But you made this point rather well.
Dorothy,
Thanks for posting the extra information. We always need a little reminder that the term "Sustainable Development" means that those in power see how we currently live as "unsustainable". This includes rural living, and the lifestyle that goes with it. Re-wilding is this thought put into action. Government sponsoring public housing, is this thought put into action. Changes of zoning laws, and the applicable taxes that come with it, are these thoughts put into action.
I have seen much of these tactics in action, as have most who have lived in rural areas in states like Florida. I have seen cattle owners fined for safely trapping animals that were destroying their property, because they are on conservation lists. I have seen agricultural communities rezoned to commercial, thus causing taxes to skyrocket forcing many from their homes, only for the state to demo them and leave the land empty. I watched a economy based in agriculture decimated by restrictions, be shifted to tourism and construction with claims that it was more sustainable only to end up with one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation when the economy turned south.
If anyone wants to see what this is all about, look at Florida. Ask someone who still lives there what it's like now. Ask anyone who has left since the economy fell out. What was once one of the more prosperous states has been systematically destroyed.
Great behind the scenes information Omots and JD. As you shown, all of the planning and small implementing takes place behind the scenes. When the Planners decide it's time for a big push, they do a media campaign demanding something is done right away and then implement what they've been working on for a decade.
There are already maps showing where they want people to live and what should be open for the animals to roam in their environment and biodiversity schemes. This is being planned at the international level.
Everybody keep in mind the scare method the Obama people have been using to implement what they want passed.
Dorothy
Posted at Israel Forum.
The EU doesn't like transparency. Israel is asking who funds the antisemitic NGOs. The sh_t hit the fan and the European Parliament got all upset.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/357666
Dorothy
And then there's Nutria. See:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39151934/ns/today-today_fashion_and_beauty/
http://tinyurl.com/37z3z7m
In addition to fashion dictating what is popular, current events also affect what is socially acceptable, Kaplan said. “There have been coyote incidences in Los Angeles and Chicago, so there are calls for increased trapping. In Maryland, there was a law passed about not trapping beavers, and all these trees started coming down. Now there’s a movement to trap beavers. In New York, there’s a raccoon problem,” he cited. “States don’t have the budget to deal with these problems, so things like financial incentives help wildlife agencies manage overpopulation.
“Fur is a renewable, sustainable resource,” Kaplan added. “And faux fur is a petroleum product.” Which is a particularly sensitive issue for residents along the Gulf these days."
And from http://www.scienceline.org/2010/01/is-nutria-the-new-black/
But now, designers and activists alike are attempting to hype the nutria as an eco-friendly source of fur. One group, known as Righteous Fur , is promoting the use of nutria in fashion and even held a nutria fur design competition on January 8th.
Oh for a "Will Rogers" to come on the scene. What fun he would have over this!
Yesna,
Your post reminds me of a funny situation some friends and I were able to take advantage of.
During the late 90's and early 2000's, like many other places, in south Florida large gated communities became the rage. Developers would use what ever means necessary to acquire land on the out skirts of the city, which would then be subdivided and turned into these gated communities. Many of them were on the rather ritzy side.
These posh neighborhoods would become the homes of doctors and lawyers and other high end business types. Developers quickly realized though that some of the natives of the area, were not helping the price of their properties, So said developers began buying up these properties at inflated prices and knocking down existing structures, either leaving vacant land or selling the property to have filling stations built.
This would start giving the communities a buffer between them and the nearest country folk, thus not allowing for property values to degrade from having them so close. The developers however did not take into account the wildlife of the area. Soon posh green lawns and multi million dollar golf courses were being torn up and turned into rutted mud patches by sprinkler systems.
They would soon find the culprit were hogs. Not the pink domesticated type mind you, but big hairy Havalinas with attitudes. The developers had to find a way to handle the situation. The city refused to do anything because in the developers haste to buy cheap land, they bought up property outside of the city limits. Florida Game and Fish deemed it a non issue as the area was still zoned as a natural habitat.
This left hiring someone to handle the issue. As it turned out the only people in the area that were equipped to handle the situation were the same country folk that the developers did not want living near their communities. Thus a small group of my friends and I got together and got paid to trap hogs at $150 a head on top of being able to keep whatever we trapped, as hogs do not require a license as they are deemed a agricultural menace.
So we would get paid to trap them, then sell whatever we didn't want to keep to a butcher who specialized in wild game. I laugh because for the better part of six months we were making money hand over fist due to someone else's lack of common sense. In the end the developers got tired of paying us and hired a contractor to devise a solution, which simply entailed replacing a wrought iron fence with a wall.
JD 1:50,
Granted, there are numerous wildlife and plant species under Federal government protection and several species are being RE-introduced into a wide variety of suitable habitats. The fight against "invasive species" is also a major component of the green agenda. But make no mistake about it, the wolf is THE KEY PLAYER in the push for the RE-wilding of America.
Here’s just a few quotes from the RE-wilding Institute web page:
“The critical role of carnivores kicks in when viable populations are allowed to persist at ecologically effective population densities over large areas—really large areas.”
“Areas apparently needed to maintain viable populations [of large carnivores] over centuries are so large as to strain credibility; they certainly strain political acceptance.” Noss et al. (1996:950)
“We’re talking about thousands to tens of thousands of square miles of suitable core habitat areas (safe havens) connected by hospitable linkages (safe passages). The scale of carnivore conservation drives the ecoregional and continental conservation vision and mission of The Rewilding Institute.”
Here's RE-wilding Institute’s Wolf Vision:
We call for the recovery of wolves across North America. Such recovery means:
Restoration of wolves in suitable habitat throughout their former range in North America, from the Northern Sierra Madre Occidental in Mexico to the Canadian Rockies and Coast Range, and from the U.S. Pacific Northwest to the Upper Great Lakes and to upstate New York and New England.
Restoration of potentially suitable habitats and crucial linkages between patches of suitable wolf habitat where wolves are free to behave like wolves.
Restoration of wolves in ecologically and evolutionarily effective populations so that they may fulfill their natural keystone role of ecosystem regulation, aiding the persistence of native flora and fauna.
Restoration of wolves throughout this expanse, so that all wolf populations are connected by a continuum of functioning dispersal linkages.
http://www.rewilding.org/carnivoreconservation.html
omots
I'm going to talk about "Rewilding" on the air tonight. Maybe OMOTS might consider calling in as well as some of the rest of you -- 888-747-1968, www.themicroeffect.com. EARS STILL BAD!
Constance
To Anonymous 4:22 p.m.
Why would Satan be against ALL fundamentalist monotheistic religions ?? Because he wants no reminder of God the father, no matter how distorted the concept.
Don't take my word for it -- look at David Spangler (Revelation: THE BIRTH OF A NEW AGE); Alice Ann Bailey (THE RAYS AND THE INITIATIONS); GOLDEN BOOK OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY, 1952, etc, etc.
Constance
Dear Constance,
I'm sorry to hear you are not feeling well.
I pray that you recover speedily and fully.
Excellent response at 6:14 PM by the way, if I may say so.
I pray God blesses you mightily, & keeps you safe.
R.
Dear Constance,
I'm sorry to hear you are not feeling well.
I pray that you recover speedily and fully.
Excellent response at 6:14 PM by the way, if I may say so.
I pray God blesses you mightily, & keeps you safe.
R.
Omots,
My point was not to say that wolves were not the key player, more to draw attention to the fact that there are other animals, especially in areas where wolves would not naturally live. Living in Michigan I see the wolf issue up close. However when I lived in Florida it was Panthers, Bobcats, and Coyotes. If someone lived in the southwest, there would most likely be different animals that would be recognizable achieving the same goals.
I just didn't want anyone to say 'no wolves here, no problem'. I wanted everyone to see that no matter what part of the country you live in, this issue effects you somehow. For instance, I know in Texas the issue in some areas is Jack Rabbit population. Can anyone picture that? When one thinks of fertility in the animal world, rabbits are synonymous. However such has been made into a issue.
Constance,
Sorry I missed the broadcast. Had to pick up my son from school.
Jim Beers recently gave a talk on this same subject, RE-wilding, focusing on wolf introduction as key, in which he connected some of the NGO/Federal government corruption/complicity dots. Beers also mentions his negotiations with the EU on behalf of the USFWS on related subject matters as pertinent background.
The talk was entitiled:
Criminal Activities by Federal Bureaucrats
And Others Involved in the Introduction,
Protection and Spread of Wolves
In the Lower 48 States.
By
Jim Beers, USFWS Retired
Given at Bozeman, MT 16 May 2010
The transcript is an invaluable read for those who want additional background.
You might consider contacting Mr. Beers as he would be a great interview for a future broadcast.
Here's a link to the transcript:
http://tinyurl.com/34qec3x
omots
EU agrees to South Korea free trade deal...
http://tinyurl.com/242eo97
Want to know what it is like to live under government controlled planning? Susanne found this article about what happens in China. It truly is interesting in what we don't know about what is happening around the world.
http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=151&catid=11&subcatid=72
http://tinyurl.com/22lfnba
The following clip was sent to me by a friend. Its source is interesting given that it is from Americans for Peace and Tolerance an organization which stands for "peaceful coexistence" of world religions. In this clip they expose and decry radical Muslim proselytizing of MA school children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7-I9Qp3d4Y&feature=player_embedded
http://tinyurl.com/29kgfbl
Given this group's mission, is this part of the dialectical or are they just deluded into thinking that moderates can truly coexist in the world? I suspect it is the former.
Americans for Peace and Tolerance
www.peaceandtolerance.org
http://ffc.createsend5.com/t/r/e/alioy/hyiklhhri/>
ffc- faith & freedom coalition
Reed, Gingrich, Rove and their using what people want to hear to sell themselves
What more does one have to see to know New Age hasn't gone away.
Dorothy
Just in case someone missed this story:
17 year old British boy Luke Angel has been banned from the U.S for the rest of his life (he'll be allowed to apply for permanent residency once he's dead) for sending a vitriolic email to the false messiah currently acting as a front for America's corporate kingpins.
The boy in question admits to calling Obama a pr1ck, though according to a police spokesman the letter did also contain threatening language€lol.
But given that the offending missive was written by a kid who was drunk at the time, unless it outlined a sophisticated Al Qaeda backed plan to put nitroglycerine in Obama's favorite basketball, the reaction seems both overdone and the kind of harsh treatment reserved for the male of the species even when he's just a stupid kid with a big mouth.
The U.S authorities are refusing to give us the details of the case as we are after all only proles, but Joanne Ferreira from the Department of Homeland Security did say that there are about 60 reasons why a person can be banned.
She didn't tell us what those 60 reasons are but apparently political dissent is now one of them. Or to be more serious, it may be on its way to becoming one of them. If the world accepts what may be a case of punishing political dissent, it will be easier in the future for the U.S to do this in a case that is definitely a matter of punishing political dissent.
Dorothy
I picked the information out of a comments section, having seen the story on Drudge earlier. I didn't write it.
I find it interesting because of what happened to Michael Savage.
Dorothy
Good leaders don't always get the credit they deserve, even in Christian organizations.
http://www.magic-city-news.com/Opinion_3/The_Man_Who_Derailed_Maine_s_Transgendered_Agenda13822.shtml
http://tinyurl.com/2d5lgw5
"...The ill-advised guidelines for transgendered students were the product of the Maine Human Rights Commission, which sought to add to the Maine Human Rights Act of 2005. Under the proposed guidelines, schools would be required to allow a boy to use girls' bathrooms and locker rooms. The guidelines would still be in effect today, had it not been for the efforts of Mike Hein..."
Then Hein was fired.
Read the entire story.
Dorothy
Taken from the Cutting Edge Newsletter of Sep 15, 2010 -
"1) Sarah Palin is part of a Charismatic/Neo-Pentecostal movement who believe the lie that Jesus cannot return until and unless His Christian followers have taken Dominion" over the earth! Not so coincidentally, Glenn Beck is a Mormon, a church which teaches the same type of "Dominionism" philosophy." - end quote.
Just for your consideration.
P.
P, you are bouncing off the wall. Either provide documentation or take your charges to the garbage can.
Anony 7:08,
There is plenty of "documentation" that Palin follows NAR, dominion agenda and was documented back when she was running for VP. Her taking part in Beck rally does not bode well. Go to http://wp.me/p8N6Q-lp for some thoughts on Glen Beck's perspective in relations to biblical repentance.
Somewhere these guys are connected to New Age, but I haven't checked out where.
http://www.progressiveleaders.org/aboutus/leaders.htm
I'm just posting this to show again how much planning and money goes into the Obama style leftist agenda. There are 16 groups connected to the Center for Progressive Leadership.
http://www.progressiveleaders.org/
These groups aren't going to go away after the next election. It's a long term battle.
Does anyone know of a list of "progressive" cause theme names and code words? I'm thinking of things like
Social Justice
Sustainability
Gay and Lesbian
Immigration
Abortion
Workers support
Union causes
Teacher groups
Dorothy
Somewhere these guys are connected to New Age, but I haven't checked out where.
http://www.progressiveleaders.org/aboutus/leaders.htm
I'm just posting this to show again how much planning and money goes into the Obama style leftist agenda. There are 16 groups connected to the Center for Progressive Leadership.
http://www.progressiveleaders.org/
These groups aren't going to go away after the next election. It's a long term battle.
Does anyone know of a list of "progressive" cause theme names and code words? I'm thinking of things like
Social Justice
Sustainability
Gay and Lesbian
Immigration
Abortion
Workers support
Union causes
Teacher groups
Dorothy
Sorry about the double post. The message appeared not to go through the first time.
P. and Peacebringer are correct re: Palin. There are some blog posts out there showing a connection. To be fair, I've not seen anything recent, though.
I decided to start my own blog. The impetus was when I heard that "Apostle" Bill Johnson of Bethel Church in Redding, CA claimed Jesus was 'born again.' (I posted something here regarding this a while back; but, I did a pretty thorough investigation using one of Johnson's books and other references.)
Here's the link:
http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/
The article is a bit technical; but, I felt it had to be in order to really identify just what this guy is teaching and the dangers of it.
Constance, I'm sure you will recognize the Christology behind this and deduce where part II will go.
Dorothy,
Does this "handy translation table" fit the wickets?
http://www.akdart.com/libspeak.html
I would also like to add, that New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)aside from being of the Domionist bend, also practices distinctly New Age Mysticism. Herescope has run excellent articles with plenty of documentation. Talk 2 Action, though I am far from agreeing with many of their positions, also has several good articles detailing the NAR, Palin, Pierce, Wagner, et al.
http://www.talk2action.org/
http://herescope.blogspot.com/
JD,
You are correct about NAR New Age mysticism. It's all about signs and wonders via the "anointing." You should read the article I wrote referenced above. Bill Johnson's 'Jesus' is the typical belief of those of the NAR I'm sure although perhaps with some variances.
Craig,
I was just taking a peek at your blog, very good job dissecting the teachings and refuting them. I would also point out that Johnson's teaching is not unlike that of mystics who claim that Christians believe in reincarnation. Same basics, Johnson just replaced reincarnated with born again in a attempt to make it a Christian teaching. I am surprised he did not imply Jesus holding the "office" of Christ, maybe that is a different sermon.
Craig,
Keep up the good work, I would have left a comment directly there but I don't have a wordpress account.
JD,
Now you see where Part II is going...
JD,
Actually, Theosophic belief (Alice Bailey, etc) is that Jesus lived such an exemplary life that His was the last stage (of reincarnation) of His prior lives having achieved Masterhood along with Buddah and Confucius, etc. He, then, becomes our model.
So, the object is to emulate Jesus and we will ascend as He did. Since Jesus was "Christed" at baptism, we can too, then go on our journey just as He did. The sermon series of Johnson was, in fact, titled "Jesus is our model."
So, you are correct that in saying Jesus was 'born again' they really mean He ascended into Masterhood. Johnson couldn't rightly say Jesus was ascended as in the last stage of reincarnated; so, this was the closest thing. Amazingly, the audience even laughed at his, "He was (pause) born again" as he sped up the second part with his voice going a bit higher as if it (Jesus being born again) is so obvious by the way he presented his 'biblical explanation.'
Craig,
We are in absolute agreement. Johnson's veiled language though, was more to attempt to hide his meaning from educated critics. He could have easily said ascended to most Christians without so much as raising a single eyebrow, and with many he might have gotten away with throwing reincarnation directly into the mix.
Sadly I wish this wasn't the case, but this is how things are within the church these days. If the people he was speaking to had any clue as to where these ideas come from, veiled language or not, they would have recognized it. Unfortunately, too many think that as long as there is a cross on the building, they are in good hands.
Craig,
Keep us updated as you get more up. If you put into other pieces what you have this first, I will definitely be happy to see you expand on what you have written thus far.
JD:
He could have easily said ascended to most Christians without so much as raising a single eyebrow, and with many he might have gotten away with throwing reincarnation directly into the mix.
I initially posed a question (I still may use this in the 2nd part), "Is Johnson's theology evolving?" which would then lead into the discussion on reincarnation.
Most are so biblically illiterate and chase these signs and wonders not taking into account the severe warnings of the Olivet Discourse and 2 Thess 2.
It's a very sad state the 'church' is in...
Craig,
If sticking within the context of Johnson alone, then I would definitely use such as a bridge. Since you seem to understand a bit about the NAR, I would like to ask you a direct question, which you may like to explore in a future piece.
Given the Hierarchical structure of the many groups that make up the NAR, is it possible that even one individual within their fold could espouse such a message without it being approved and accepted NAR doctrine? Given that everything within is a down line of the message from a "anointed apostle" above them?!?
This is of course rhetorical, but given what you are doing I thought it might make for some fun exploration.
JD and Craig regarding Bill Johnson...
Thanks for shedding light on this heresy. I knew Bill's dad -- I don't know what happened to Bill. I have close friends who have been seduced into this thinking and grieve over their unwillingness to see the error. Todd Bently, friend and associate of Bill Johnson, freely talks about his spirit guide Emma that sprinkles gold dust before he speaks, and talks about his visits to heaven, etc. You don't need much imagination to see that thier thinking is dripping with New Age mysticism.
Johnson and NAR have evidently helped Beck to formalize Beck's worldview. It's all part of a move to a global religion and has very little, if anything, to do with Christianity. Please don't color all Pentecostal groups by what this guy does.
Dave in CA
Dave,
I have been to a few traditional Pentecostal churches that would run him up the aisle (pun intended) and right out the door. To me there is a major divide between Pentecostal and some of the modern charismatics (just because they have tried to take the name, doesn't mean they are).
The moves that the NAR has made into social, political, and business circles should be eye opening to many here. I am glad it is a subject that is getting some attention.
Anon 7.08PM, I was only quoting from The Cutting Edge Newsletter here -
http://www.cuttingedge.org/newsletters/
They also have a DVD by Pastor Hoggard exposing Glenn Beck but I have not seen it myself. It is advertised at the above link.
P.
JD,
Here is another blogger who showed quite convincingly that Chuck Pierce adheres to the Kabbalah especially in his 'prophetic words:'
http://wyattroberts.blogspot.com/search?q=chuck+pierce
My thinking is that these guys may have their own brand of esoteric beliefs and practices. It matters little as the primary agenda is dominion and pushing the 'Christ' "anointing" on. So, yeah, actually minimal differences in doctrine matter little as the overall practice is the same. However, some have their own part to play such as Mike Bickle of IHOP.
Speaking of which, did you know the pancake house is suing the prayer house?
http://regator.com/p/244677407/ihop_sues_ihop_trademark_battle_pits_pancakes_vs/
IHOP sues IHOP:
http://tinyurl.com/39vgeh4
More info on the video at Cutting Edge exposing Glenn Beck -
http://www.cuttingedge.org/newsletters/
Quote:- "For those of you who have doubts about Glenn Beck, this video is a 'must see'. Pastor Hoggard reveals the hidden and subtle agenda behind the 'Divine Destiny Rally' in Washington D.C., including the date of the rally, the location of the rally, and the purpose behind the rally.
Pastor Hoggard also unveils the amazing truth about the occult symbolism of the Lincoln Memorial, dedicated on May 1, 1922 (Satanic Holiday called Beltaine). The Lincoln Memorial was a model of the Temple of Zeus! Its 10 hidden pillars, coupled with the 36 outside pillars, equals the Masonic number, 46, the number of double helix!
Finally, Pastor shows the encoding of the number of the Beast in the design of the Lincoln Memorial! http://www.cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=2254" - end quote
P.
BTW, the end plan seems to be inserting another strand of DNA into human DNA, thus making it a TRIPLE Helix.
Dave,
Yes, the doctrine which undergirds the NAR is called Latter Rain which itself came from Theosophy; and, perhaps other esoteric sources. (Really this stuffs been recycling since pre-Christian days as Gnosticism.)
The Assemblies of God denounced Latter Rain as heresy in 1948. Interestingly, Latter Rain originated in Canada right near where Bentley is from.
Susanna, not only is that a very good site that translate liberal speak, the home page leads compilations of articles concerning Obama and various other topics of current interest.
Thanks.
Dorothy
Susanna, not only is that a very good site that translate liberal speak, the home page leads compilations of articles concerning Obama and various other topics of current interest.
Thanks.
Dorothy
This is so strange. It appears nothing went through and the word verification needs to be repeated, yet when I redo, it appears twice.
I've refreshed several times after it didn't go through. Let's see what happens.
Dorothy
In line with the radio's show about corrupt politics in California, here are some websites that deal with corrupt politicians. I can't remember them all, but these are lists from both the right and left.
http://www.alternet.org/news/148196/12_of_america%27s_most_crooked_candidates_on_the_ballot_in_the_2010_election?page=entire
http://tinyurl.com/2ah8k32
http://www.judicialwatch.org/news/2009/dec/judicial-watch-announces-list-washington-s-ten-most-wanted-corrupt-politicians-2009
http://tinyurl.com/ybn5a7h
Obama White House aides owe the IRS $831,000 in back taxes -- and they're not alone
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/09/congress-taxes-irs.html
http://tinyurl.com/34o2f2s
Obama is targeting Boehner, but Boehner is about as grass roots as a person can get. It takes an article from a foreign country to report the truth.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8009943/John-Boehner-the-second-of-12-kids-from-Ohio-who-is-Barack-Obamas-elitist-target.html#disqus_thread
http://tinyurl.com/26efp3t
Dorothy
No digging allowed at Nat'l park seashore:
http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_10951.shtml
Craig,
Thank you so much for your work exposing Bill Johnson’s errors and false teaching. I visited Bethel Church in Redding a couple years ago after hearing some very excited people rave about what a huge “movement of God” (???) was occurring there.
The thing I remember most about my experience was the demeanor of so many people at that church. It reminded me of the strange look on the faces of some young people I met during my vagabond days back in the early 1970’s. That same bleary eyed pie-in-the-sky look was on the faces of a group of “moonies” who happened to surround me in a Greyhound bus terminal in downtown San Francisco.
Thank God I got on my bus when it arrived.
omots
omots,
Thanks for the kind words. There's always a 'movement of God' somewhere with these folks.
My prediction -- based on other's have given me info and what I've seen in the somewhat recent past -- is there will be another Lakeland-type event on the West Coast. Perhaps it will be at Bethel.
My ears are still problematic -- like hearing through 2 tin cans -- limited hearing in right ear -- left ear tinny. Continue praying for full hearing recovery, please!
RICH OF MEDFORD called this morning as I was leaving the house. He has a CRITICAL new post up on his blogspot which you can link to from mine.
Please go there and read it!
Constance
Dear Craig:
We have been on to this "born again Jesus" stuff for a very long time. My friend, Judith Matta, of California, once wrote an excellent book: THE BORN AGAIN JESUS OF THE WORD FAITH MOVEMENT."
You might want to check it out, I recently ran across it again in my own large private library.
Thanks!
CONSTANCE
Constance,
I'm not so sure that Johnson believes as the typical WoF by his words in the transcript of his sermon. He seems to be inferring that Jesus 'became sin' at the incarnation. This is different from the WoF view that Jesus 'became sin' between the time of His Crucifixion and the His Ascension when He 'decended into hell' and was subsequently 'born again.'
Johnson is not explicit in his belief on this; but, it would seem he's hinting at it in his sermon.
I may have to check out Matta's book and/or D R McConnell's "A Different Gospel."
I hope your ears clear up soon. I've had a history of ear trouble so I know how annoying it can be. I used to get vertigo from it.
Sadly, focusing on attacking other Christian churches for 'heresies' and false doctrines should be the least of a Christian's worries these days. Regarding Johnson- I went and read Craig's blog and Johnson's words and do not think that Johnson is a New Ager by any means! Jesus was certainly not sinful but He did take on the sins of the entire world on the cross- so much so that the Father, who cannot bear to be in the presence of sin, had to turn away from his Son during those last moments on earth to the point where Jesus said, "My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?".
So the pastor did not quite use the best of language in expressing his ideas. Maybe he has a lousy grasp of the English language. Maybe he's a little confused. Frankly, the bible is confusing. Anyone who doesn't admit to getting somewhat confused at certain parts is a liar, in my opinion. JUst ask any Mennonite , Brethren, Christian Reformed, 7th Day Adventist, Catholic, Assembly of God, Baptist, Luthern, Nazarene, Presbyterian,Wesleyan or Charismatic church to come to a consensus on Revelations 20:2 and see what happens. We are told by Jesus himself not to judge. Yet judgement is bantered around so easily here.
Attacking other Christian churches of false doctrine, in my opinion, just aids and abets the enemy. If you are going to do that, stay strong and be vigilant and also attack every darned single point of so-called false doctrine in every other Christian church that acknowledges Jesus! The Methodists with their meditation gardens and the Assemblies of God with their Rick Warren studies and the Baptists with their aversion to Pentecostals speaking in tongues or the Pentecostals with their aversion to Baptists who won't speak in tongues!
And what will all that finger-pointing accomplish, may I ask? Just more pagans laughing amongst themselves at the dumb Christians who just can't get along.
And would you rather have Palin for President, or Bush or Obama? Frankly, I'd rather have Palin, and I never thought I'd say that.
to be con't
(con't)
The Catholic church, for all its perceived faults, (Mary worship, the doctrine of Purgatory, etc, etc. ) still acknowledges Jesus as savior and Lord and admits it has had its problems. Why can't we all do the same and just say that we are human and fallible and can't help but be flawed, but thankfully Jesus had the answer for all of us! Jesus did not want us to grieve the Holy Spirit with dissension within the Body of Christ, yet that is what is happening on sites like this! We are afraid to say anything negative about Jews on this site for fear of being labeled a Jew-hater yet there are Jews in Israel that practice Kabbalah that get a blind pass because they are lumped in amongst God's chosen people.
Where is the discernment amongst God's people? Are we praying for it? Are we reading the word every day? If not we should be, because the times are treacherous!
Remember that 7.2 earthquake at Christchurch, New Zealand two weeks ago? I am convinced God was sending a message that his body of Christ is being protected from the enemy even though the enemy has been gaining power each day. Jesus wants us to know he is our Champion and He loves his church!
I also believe that the Macondo well in the Gulf of Mexico indirectly caused the quake but that all relates to antipodes and geology and seismology and things way too technical to discuss here, so I am not going to elaborate any further.
I am sick to death of one church attacking another for speaking in tongues, or not speaking in tongues, or praying to Mary, or not praying to Mary, or taking baptism at birth in opposed to full immersions as an adult. Jesus gave us very simple commandments.
Hello? Can we just try to love each other, including our enemies as Jesus asked us to do?
Good grief! How simple is that?
All monotheistic religions have much more to worry about these days. We are being drugged and poisoned systematically, so while you good people all dissect some California pastor's exact verbiage, the important news of the day becomes nothing more than a minor distraction.
Sadly, this site is no longer a viable place in which to search for truth. I sorely miss Rudi and some of the others that used to post and contribute here.
DWTS
The Catholic church, for all its perceived faults, (Mary worship, the doctrine of Purgatory, etc, etc. ) still acknowledges Jesus as savior and Lord and admits it has had its problems. Why can't we all do the same and just say that we are human and fallible and can't help but be flawed, but thankfully Jesus had the answer for all of us! Jesus did not want us to grieve the Holy Spirit with dissension within the Body of Christ, yet that is what is happening on sites like this! We are afraid to say anything negative about Jews on this site for fear of being labeled a Jew-hater yet there are Jews in Israel that practice Kabbalah that get a blind pass because they are lumped in amongst God's chosen people.
Where is the discernment amongst God's people? Are we praying for it? Are we reading the word every day? If not we should be, because the times are treacherous!
Remember that 7.2 earthquake at Christchurch, New Zealand two weeks ago? I am convinced God was sending a message that his body of Christ is being protected from the enemy even though the enemy has been gaining power each day. Jesus wants us to know he is our Champion and He loves his church!
I also believe that the Macondo well in the Gulf of Mexico indirectly caused the quake but that all relates to antipodes and geology and seismology and things way too technical to discuss here, so I am not going to elaborate any further.
I am sick to death of one church attacking another for speaking in tongues, or not speaking in tongues, or praying to Mary, or not praying to Mary, or taking baptism at birth in opposed to full immersions as an adult. Jesus gave us very simple commandments.
Hello? Can we just try to love each other, including our enemies as Jesus asked us to do?
Good grief! How simple is that?
All monotheistic religions have much more to worry about these days. We are being drugged and poisoned systematically, so while you good people all dissect some California pastor's exact verbiage, the important news of the day becomes nothing more than a minor distraction.
Sadly, this site is no longer a viable place in which to search for truth. I sorely miss Rudi and some of the others that used to post and contribute here.
DWTS
The Catholic church, for all its perceived faults, (Mary worship, the doctrine of Purgatory, etc, etc. ) still acknowledges Jesus as savior and Lord and admits it has had its problems. Why can't we all do the same and just say that we are human and fallible and can't help but be flawed, but thankfully Jesus had the answer for all of us! Jesus did not want us to grieve the Holy Spirit with dissension within the Body of Christ, yet that is what is happening on sites like this! We are afraid to say anything negative about Jews on this site for fear of being labeled a Jew-hater yet there are Jews in Israel that practice Kabbalah that get a blind pass because they are lumped in amongst God's chosen people.
Where is the discernment amongst God's people? Are we praying for it? Are we reading the word every day? If not we should be, because the times are treacherous!
Remember that 7.2 earthquake at Christchurch, New Zealand two weeks ago? I am convinced God was sending a message that his body of Christ is being protected from the enemy even though the enemy has been gaining power each day. Jesus wants us to know he is our Champion and He loves his church!
I also believe that the Macondo well in the Gulf of Mexico indirectly caused the quake but that all relates to antipodes and geology and seismology and things way too technical to discuss here, so I am not going to elaborate any further.
I am sick to death of one church attacking another for speaking in tongues, or not speaking in tongues, or praying to Mary, or not praying to Mary, or taking baptism at birth in opposed to full immersions as an adult. Jesus gave us very simple commandments.
Hello? Can we just try to love each other, including our enemies as Jesus asked us to do?
Good grief! How simple is that?
All monotheistic religions have much more to worry about these days. We are being drugged and poisoned systematically, so while you good people all dissect some California pastor's exact verbiage, the important news of the day becomes nothing more than a minor distraction.
DWTS
DWTS,
Johnson is fifth generation pastor with his grandfather having been to Azuza Street revival in 1904 (or so). He has been teaching for about 30 years. English is presumably his first language. So, why would he not understand that Jesus did not 'become sin' and have to be 'born again?'
There's more to his theology which will be presented in part II.
This is about warning the sheep about potential wolves. This is not just an 'attack' as you say with no merit. When Jesus warned of 'wolves in sheeps' clothing obviously this was referring to those IN the 'church' who appear to be sheep.
DWTS,
I couldn't agree more. I am more worried about the new TLC series that's trying to make polygamy acceptable and gain legal recognition, if this happens, then a Christian woman will not be able to stop her husband from marrying another man because it's legal!
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/sep/10091609.html
The proponents of alternative marriages often bring up the fact that different cultures have had different kinds of marriages, but what they don't realize is that there was no organized state that sanctioned this. Even in India where polygamy is legal for Muslims, it's illegal for others.
Savvy
What I meant was a Christian woman will not be able to stop her husband from marrying another woman.
Savvy
DWTS 8:02,
You wrote, 'Sadly, focusing on attacking other Christian churches for 'heresies' and false doctrines should be the least of a Christian's worries these days.'
Yes, turn out the lights, go back to sleep. Don't bother packing any extra oil, you obviously won't be needing it.
A fine watchman you are. Not.
Anonymous 9:14
"Yes, turn out the lights, go back to sleep. Don't bother packing any extra oil, you obviously won't be needing it."
I'm quite awake actually. Though I am looking in directions that are stimulating to my spiritual walk. Beating up other Christians is not my style, and serves no purpose in my walk with Christ, which is tough enough without the challenges from other Christians.
Savvy, thanks for the support.
We Christians are in this together, though WHO we are is certainly becoming questionable. I believe in Jesus and I love him as Savior and Lord. The condemnation of fellow Christian finger-pointers I really have no taste or time for.
DWTS
DWTS,
No problem, the enemy does like to take us where we are weakest. I recall it was Richard Dawkins who claimed that atheism was a derivative of Protestant thought. He was obviously trying to get Protestants to join atheists against Catholics.
A house divided against itself will not stand.
Savvy
DWTS:
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on you, that you by them might war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as does a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
In 1 Timothy 1:18-20 and 2 Timothy 2:16-18 the apostle Paul warns the readers to avoid a man by the name of Hymenaeus and two cohorts, Alexander and Philetus, describing them as blasphemous. You are right to admonish against pointing fingers and attacking fellow pastors—brothers—who are attempting to preach the word of God. However, when false teachers lead the body of Christ into apostasy, we must sound the alarm. Peter warned the believers against false prophets who made merchandise of the believers with feigned words. (2 Peter 2:1-3). John also warned against false prophets and the dangers of Gnosticism in the church.
I am currently in a church in which the most vocal majority follows after Bill Johnson and others in his network. They were very enraptured by the whole Todd Bentley goings on in Lakeland. I watched a clip (now removed) of Johnson defending Bentley. In the clip, he reads an email (which he says he never does, but was compelled to do so) from one who was questioning how Johnson can support Bentley and Lakeland and asked Johnson for Scriptures to back it up. This “pastor”, Bill Johnson, proceeded to mock the writer of the email—the audience laughed with him. He then began a list of all Todd’s “virtues” stating that the emailer had no right to question Bentley if he’d never prayed with him, never saw him with his kids, or witnessed his relationship with his wife, etc….. Never once did Johnson give any Scripture. NOT ONE! But he hammed up the mocking. Todd Bentley by his own admission was already in proceedings to separate and divorce his wife when Lakeland began. The video clip I’m referencing was well into the development of the Lakeland phenomenon so Bentley was already fully involved in his affair and deception when Johnson so foolishly defended him.
...continued
DTWS:
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on you, that you by them might war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as does a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
In 1 Timothy 1:18-20 and 2 Timothy 2:16-18 the apostle Paul warns the readers to avoid a man by the name of Hymenaeus and two cohorts, Alexander and Philetus, describing them as blasphemous. You are right to admonish against pointing fingers and attacking fellow pastors—brothers—who are attempting to preach the word of God. However, when false teachers lead the body of Christ into apostasy, we must sound the alarm. Peter warned the believers against false prophets who made merchandise of the believers with feigned words. (2 Peter 2:1-3). John also warned against false prophets and the dangers of Gnosticism in the church.
...continued
...continued
I am currently in a church in which the most vocal majority follows after Bill Johnson and others in his network. They were very enraptured by the whole Todd Bentley goings on in Lakeland. I watched a clip (now removed) of Johnson defending Bentley. In the clip, he reads an email (which he says he never does, but was compelled to do so) from one who was questioning how Johnson could support Bentley and Lakeland and asked Johnson for Scriptures to back it up. This “pastor”, Bill Johnson, proceeded to mock the writer of the email—the audience laughed with him. He then began a list of all Todd’s “virtues” stating that the emailer had no right to question Bentley if he’d never prayed with him, never saw him with his kids, or witnessed his relationship with his wife, etc….. Never once did Johnson give any Scripture. NOT ONE! But he hammed up the mocking. Todd Bentley by his own admission was already in proceedings to separate and divorce his wife when Lakeland began. The video clip I’m referencing was well into the development of the Lakeland phenomenon so Bentley was already fully involved in his affair and deception when Johnson so foolishly defended him.
...continued
...continued
This shameful display of unbiblical and unsound “discernment” was a mockery of God’s word and the sacred duty of a pastor to “shepherd the flock”. Before I am chewed up for bringing up the past, let me explain. Bill Johnson is extremely influential in a large and growing charismatic movement. I live and work among these folk. They have full confidence in him theologically. Now look at the following site:
http://www.convergenceschool.org/
You will see how deeply involved Bill Johnson is in this movement. You can also explore elijahlist.com. While you’re there check out their resources which include The Shack, and “Sound Doctrine”. You can also follow that trail with JoAnn McFatter who has taught at the school along with Robert Heidler. McFatter will tell you how to get on God’s frequency so that you can be in tune with what God is supposedly doing in the world. Heidler will show you how sound of the planets can penetrate you and that you can release something in the heavenlies:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5403103165515642694#. This is as New Age as it gets. Bill Johnson’s name and influence runs thick through all of this stuff.
...continued
The point I am making is that Johnson is a false teacher void of Biblical discernment. Craig is correct to expose him. One of the things I appreciate about this blog is that we warn each other of New Age influence wherever it is found. This is exactly what Constance does in her books when she exposes Pat Robertson, etc.
Again, I appreciate your concern and warning against finger pointing at brothers. However, Johnson is no innocent pastor. He is a blatant and dangerous false teacher who is leading many astray.
YesNaSpanishTown
Savvy,
While you and I have had disagreements regarding Catholicism, I must say I'm quite surprised at your stance in supporting DWTS' view. One of the stated goals of the New Age was to infiltrate Christianity. They've been quite successful. What Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and others who've done damage to the Catholic church? Should they have been left alone as "Christian brothers?"
YesNa,
It's disappointing that that video of Johnson defending Bentley has been removed. I wanted to use that in part II.
Incidentally, Johnson was at Todd Bentley's "commissioning" ceremony at Lakeland and Bentley is one of the endorsers of Johnsons's When Heaven Invades Earth from 2003 of which I draw most of his quotes in the article.
I have McConnell's book and I have Judith Matta's book - who is Johnson?
I have been on to the "Word Faith Movement" for decades -- back in the 80's we played on their name for it ("Name it and Claim it") and called it "Blab it and Grab it." It all struck me as gnostic heresies.
Constance
There are no perfect churches for the reason that there are no perfect people. Aaron was anything but perfect, but God elected to put him in charge of the Jewish congregations and told them to stay together and not go establishing splinter groups. Time and time again they went into the deepest of apostasies and time and time again God sent prophets to try and straighten them out. Most of the prophets were unpopular and met horrible deaths.
We were explicitly warned both in the Gospels and the Epistles that there would be wolves in sheeps clothing come in our midst. We were never told to do nothing to expose them. Au contraire, Paul wrote, BUT WHAT I DO, THAT I DO THAT SUCH AS BOAST MAY BE FOUND EVEN AS WEL. FOR SUCH ARE FALSE APOSTLES, DECEIPTFUL WORKERS, TRANSFORMING THEMSELVES INTO APOSTLES OF CHRIST AND NO MARVEL, FOR SATAN HIMSELF IS TRANSFORMED AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. THEREFORE, IT IS NO MARVEL IF HIS MINISTERS BE TRANSFORMED ALSO AS MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS."
I got out of bed and need to go back it -- I quoted the above passage from my memory which may or may not be faulty, but I believe my paraphrase is true to the spirit, intent, and perhaps to the verbiage itself.
Constance
Re DEEPAK CHOPRA. I haven't called him
DEEP PIT COBRA for years for nothing!
Constance
DWTS has a good point, but it needs expansion. The New Age movement is huge and has many, many tentacles. The second edition of the Whole Again Resource Guide, listed 3,000 New Age sources. This was still in the 1980s.
http://tinyurl.com/2bdy3t3
How much time should be focused on one of the thousands of organizations?
I would think it depends on the audience size of that group. How many people does it influence? It also depends on what can be learned and tied directly to the New Age movement by speaking of specific ideas promoted by the group that can be used to understand what is going on elsewhere.
Too often the write-ups appear like internal fights between branches of Christianity with the term "New Age" thrown in for effect.
If writers can point out how the practices of a particular group are leading to one world religion, it would be helpful.
Dorothy
There is far more to the New Age than just One World Religion / New World Religion. It is also getting people to adopt the political agenda of the New Age by hook or by crook, i.e. the environmental movement of Evangelicalism, Sojourners, etc.
Constance
Bill Johnson is a fifth generation pastor going back before Azuza Street (of which his grandfather took part), is a self-proclaimed "apostle," has been in ministry for 30 years, is an author of quite a few books of the Latter Rain persuasion (Dominionism, MSoG hints of Joel's Army) with an extreme emphasis on the supernatural, a well-connected member of the NAR, pastor of Bethel Church in CA which has infected untold 1000s, was at Todd Bentley's "commissioning," initially played a part in Bentley's 'restoration,' is active in 'healing rooms,' etc. In short, he's no small potatoes. He is quite charismatic -- in the salesman kind of way, not just a believer in the spiritual 'gifts -- which makes him all the more dangerous.
Craig,
By all means go ahead and find New Age indoctrination, and I do apologize for interfering where I should have not. I just thought DWTS was making a few valid points, about the confusion he finds himself in.
With regards to Pierre Chardin and others, the Catholics who chose to follow them did so in defiance of their own teachings, and never spent the time to study their own church's position or thought they knew more. The church does not claim to know more than what's been revealed. So the persons claiming to know more, have to prove themselves. Not the other way around.
I will admit that we have it easier, because there's an objective body to study things. My local pastor may go off the rails, but he will eventually be dismissed. In your churches, it's harder because everyone's a Pope so, it's ultimately your interpretation against theirs.
Savvy
FDA considers approval of frankenfish:
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/fda-to-consider-approval-of-frankenfish/19640260
http://www.congregator.net/articles/email-64.htm
DWTS,
I understand the frustration with what appears to be "bashing" other believers. In the past such mindset left me to set aside attending to Constance's efforts and really engaging in a lot of denial over the great deceptions active in the church. Then God woke me up. Now sometimes the efforts at exposing deception are more of an "I gotcha" attitude. Sometimes the focus is on the personality not the doctrine. (as often was the case with bentley.)
Note that there are many who in using the passage of scripture in Isaiah about do not call conspiracy that others call conspiracy to shut down being sober minded and alert. There is balance. Craig's examination of Bill Johnson is not of the "gotcha" variety. He is examining espoused doctrine and giving evidence.
DWTS, personaly there is much for me that is quickly dissmive and sterotyping. For example in criticizing "contemplatives" which are often drawing in eastern influences there is a broad dismissal of any "internal focus" and a broad villanizing of many.
Yet, there are some teaching and espousing deceptive things allowing many to get hooked into dangerous practices and getting trapped by effective deception.
Constance in her works on "New age" has highlighted some of those effective deceptions. Bill Johnson is a type who certainly has embraced the powers of evil and has deceived many.
DWTS, the question I have is why this particular reaction to Bill Johnson?
Robert,
Nobody here called for burning anybody.
Savvy
Keep track of Congress:
http://www.opencongress.org/
To Craig and all,
I am not going to continue the conversation about Bill Johnson. I know nothing about him and even if I did, I refuse to judge him. It's God's job to judge the bunch of them, Bentley and company, etc. It's my job to be non-judgmental. At least that's my understanding of the bible. I pray daily for discernment and the Holy Spirit never lets me down.
"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things." Romans 2:1
DWTB
Egad! Jesus commanded us to love our enemies. What you wrote Robert is nothing but pure evil. You can go on pretending God is on your side with those comments, but you can't fool Him. God is able to separate the sheep from the goats, and you can dress up like a sheep and fool people, but you can't fool God. Don't be surprised when you wake up with those people you hate writhing in the depths of Hell. Now you have to swim with those people in that lake of fire for all eternity.
OR...you can give up your evil ways, repent, and truly accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and follow His ways. All of us that do this will be swimming in much cooler waters in a much more pleasant environment.
Peacebringer:
For me, this reaction regarding Bill Johnson is due to his pervasive and growing influence.
I believe one of the reasons that New Age influences have seeped into the church is that the sheep have trusted the under shepherds to feed them without using Biblical discernment.
Many years ago, it was seemingly safe to trust our pastors. But today, with the power of networks and celebrity TV ministers, pastors and leaders are caught up in the "who's who" mentality. Add to the mix our fleshly pride that needs to be "in with the in" and you have pastors and leaders who are dazzled and caught up in needing to be at the "cutting edge" of the next new thing. The sheep simply trust. If pastor follows so and so, he must be safe.
This isn't just in charismatic circles. Many small evangelical and even fundamental churches are buying into Purpose Driven. It all sounds so good. My in-law's pastor came back from Rick Warren's church totally hyped to reach out to the community. So they're having a children's evangelistic outreach an a local fall festival. That's a good thing. But the deceptive false teaching that piggy backs with it it dangerous. The pastor and people have no clue.
Oops! Sorry. Getting off topic. Johnson is coming to (fully in) the forefront in Charismatic circles. He's also part of Peter Wagner's apostlic network which is promoting Dominionism. This movement is to unite all Christian denominations together to perfect the church to usher in Christ's return.
I do not lightly banter around the term "New Age". When this group of people push things like quantum spirituality and "sound" doctrine--anybody remember "good vibrations"?--it is clearly New Age spirituality.
Constance, Bill Johnson, is not of the WoF variety. He's of the altered state of consciousness variety, aka "soaking".
I jumped on board this discussion to encourage Craig. His analysis and insights are valuable for anyone who is encountering these influences.
Looking forward to part 2, Craig.
YesNaSpanishTown
DWTB and others,
I have seen NO judgement of Johnson as a person, only the doctrine he espouses. If I wanted to tackle anything personally where it concerns members of the NAR, I would begin with their "personal revelations". These folks teach that they have been given a new message, a new gospel, a new revelation. One that in this day is more valid than scripture. They also teach that they will make war with anyone who refuses their authority, and that God is raising up a army to do so.
Is this Christian doctrine? Is it Christian doctrine to teach man must build the Kingdom of God on earth by his own two hands? Is it proper to claim to have private revelation of scripture? Karen Armstrong, Matthew Fox, Chardin and others were at one time all members of a church that led believers astray. That is until someone exposed the teachings as heretical and pointed out their personal conflicts of interest. Why should Bill Johnson, C. Peter Wagner, Chuck Colson, Todd Bentley, Cindy Jacobs, or any of the rest of the NAR be any different?
Is it because they claim divine mandate? Is it because they have managed to get touchy feely with the patriot groups? Is it because they have managed to get close with what some perceive as a better governmental option than the left that currently occupies DC? Why is it that these folks are off limits to some people? Better yet, can anyone tell me why the answers to these questions should be viewed as acceptable? Or why they should not question the true intent of these folks, considering they are clearly teaching a different gospel?
The final question that I will leave all to ask themselves is this, why the rise to prominence now? These folks have been building their base for decades. Yet they are now coming into the national lime light, with NO opposition from groups like the AoC or the rest of the interfaith crowd. WHY???
Great question, JD.
In fact, sometimes it is more important to observe what is missing or what is not being said.
I suppose that is another facet of being "silent".
When researching the Emergent Church, I found that what was not being said was just as important as what was being said. So when I look at a church and it's supposed doctrinal statement, I look for clear language that exalts Jesus' blood atonement. If it's missing or diluted, you can bet the church is emergent.
In the same vein, your point is well taken. Why aren't these folks being criticized in the media? They certainly jumped all over Terry Jones.
YesNaSpanishTown
To JD & YNST:
Thank you both for helping us gain a perspective. Even among those of us who are trying to 'keep up' on a daily basis, the complexities of this emergent church can be very confusing to many.
Keep on exposing those who need to be exposed.
DWTB,
I understand your perspective entirely. As I said, I may have espoused it two years ago. God does clear directives but yet also directives that seem opposing. We are told to not judge, yet to seek righteous judgment. We are told to not call conspircacy what others call conspiracy but directed to be sober minded and alert. We are told to be like the Bereans who examined everything but also directed to not lose our first love, Jesus. We are told that we are not able to seperate the wheat from the chaff but also told to have nothing to do with false prophets. There really is a balance. Yes, there is too much arguing over varied points of view. There is the point where we all have trouble considering others as more important than self and try and convince others of our rightness. Yet, there is true and deep deceptions out there. There is the need to sound the warning and it is very appropriate that when someone is teaching an error to expose it as such. There are many caught up in the looking within for example. one man whose writing has impacted me profounding in Larry Crabb. If is easy to throw out labels, and to paint with broad brushes, even in terms of the new age movement. But what is really necessary is to expose the deceptions and what the deception is. It is all interconnected (not in the new agey way).
Yes NA, Craig, JD, Peacebringer,
Thank you for posting your comments in response to DWTB. As you’ve all pointed out, it’s not about “attacking other Christians” but in discerning and defending the faith from corruption and infiltration. Simply because one calls himself “christian” doesn’t make it so. Tell me where the Bible says we are to take a “hands off” approach to false teachers and false teaching? The scriptures declare just the opposite. There is no unity between light and darkness.
I’ve been to Bill Johnson’s Bethel Church. I’ve seen the haphazard and casual way the Lord’s Supper was served, as if it was merely an h’ordouvre at a party. I’ve seen all the flags of the world fluttering in the breeze on the private road leading up to the church, (Mars Hill?)
I’ve experienced the high intensity music of a Bethel “worship” experience, the dancing and flag waving, and all the prancing around with hands lifted high. I personally thumbed through many blatantly new age books in Bethel’s bookstore.
Style is one thing. I’m sure we all agree there is room for a variety of approaches and a diversity of worship styles. But false teaching must be called what it is, false.
omots
OK - don't burn em just try them in a court of law and if found guilty - kill them - take dominion over the earth for God's Glory - eradicate the evil people - be good yourself - claim the blood of Jesus stand up for whats right do what is necessary Fight for GOD's Will that it be DONE!! All we need is a Charismatic Leader - How about JESUS!!!Now all we need to do is be willing to KILL in his Name
omots,
I agree there is quite a difference in style and substance. Just to be fair I will use myself as a example, I play lead guitar in the band at my church, I also upon occasion sing lead. My style is very much a mix of country, blues, and some rock. When I have the opportunity to select the music for service, it always seems to fall into older hymns and traditional gospel.
The reason being is the substance of the songs. I still play them with my own styling, but the substance of the beautiful lyrics remains the same. This is far different from many worship services where the lyrics are all self centered and void of the gospel message. Where all that remains is a pounding beat and flashy instrumentation.
This is not to say all contemporary music fits this mold, but a large percentage does.
Addendum to previous post....a note about style....
I grew up immersed in the music of Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, and later on in the 1980's, U2.
Therefore, as a Christian now, (I wasn't then), I still find it quite tempting to rock out with the worship style of someone such as Kim Walker (Jesus Culture) who led the worship, (or should I say, "performed"), at the Bethel Church service I attended. In fact, I liked Kim's music so much, I even bought one of her CD's at the Bethel bookstore.
However, and I'm sure this is not simply my own reaction but one that is common to man...while watching Kim, (who was adorned with glitter make up, skin tight blouse and form fitting jeans), belt out a passionate love song to Jesus, I found myself thinking not so much of our Lord Jesus Christ, but of Kim.
Maybe it's just me, or do other men see a problem with a worship style that blurs the distinction between passionate worship and just plain passion? False teaching aside, I, personally, would not be able to attend a church where worship was merely a performance, or where my own passion for Christ could be so easily misappropriated.
Here's a sample:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_0ZRPoDxA
omots
JD,
I wouldn't have a problem attending your church.
omots
Yesna,
Exactly my point!
Peacebinger, Yesna, JD and Craig,
I did some reading of the word today. I opened to Paul's letter to the Corinthians regarding false apostles. (2 Cor:11) It helped me understand where Craig was coming from. I thank you all for the perspective on the topic.
I think I did jump the gun when I commented last night, truly not knowing anything about Johnson or his teachings. I think it is important to expose false doctrine and false teaching and it certainly sounds as though this guy deserves to be scrutinized.
In the end, it is important to test the spirits and find balance. Thanks for the comments. It put it all in a different perspective for me.
DWTB
New book out about the very good Dr. Solana, entitled 'Reclaiming of Politics.'
Excerpt from El Pais article, dated 9/19/10:
"I see no formula to mobilize this group, this group, a European policy. I think the crisis forces them. That's my hope."
English translation:
http://tinyurl.com/3a56a2q
or
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elpais.com%2Farticulo%2Freportajes%2FSeamos%2Fegoistas%2Finmigracion%2Felpepusocdmg%2F20100919elpdmgrep_5%2FTes&sl=es&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8
Original source:
http://tinyurl.com/2ug6an7
or
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/reportajes/Seamos/egoistas/inmigracion/elpepusocdmg/20100919elpdmgrep_5/Tes
Imho, not good to have a leader (retired or not) who wishes for crisis to effect change. Not good at all.
2 cents.
A fellow watcher
DWTB,
I can't speak for everyone, but for me disagreement can come along on the path to discernment. I grew up in a church that taught messages not unlike what is often discussed here. At first being so sure of myself and my position, I often defended my position to others taking little into account of what was being argued against it. I took it as a attack on my faith and my person as I held my views deeply within and was sure.
For me it was a understanding of Paul's description of seducing doctrines, that made me step back and reexamine where I was at. I began to understand why others were challenging where I was coming from. It was a love of the Truth that was missing from what I had been used to hearing. These folks had nothing to gain from challenging my positions, it was simply a desire to have me see how self centered my perspective had been.
I share this with you so you may know that I understand what it's like to fully examine yourself and find error. I also know how difficult it can be to go back and admit such. I am sincerely grateful that you have been willing to openly do so. As you have shared, only the Lord can change ones heart, we were simply tools of His trade. I am glad to have been such.
DWTB,
Thanks for your comments--even the original ones. I think it made all of us--at least me--think about what I was saying. Was I finger pointing and petty or was my heart to expose deception?
We must speak the truth in love and guard ourselves against arrogance. Thanks for keeping us in line.
Keep your heart open to the Lord and discerning.
Blessings,
YesNaSpanishTown
From www.telegraph.co.uk (09/20/10)
EU Proposes Global Internet Treaty
http://tinyurl.com/2u6sekq
P.S. Regarding the new book by Dr. Solana, per Amazon:
"Reivindicacion de la politica / Claim of the Politics (Spanish Edition) - Hardcover (June 2010) by Javier Solana and Lluis Bassets
Sign up to be notified when this item becomes available."
http://tinyurl.com/279n885
or
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=%27Reclaiming+of+Politics%2C+solana
Fwiw.
DWTB,
Briefly as I'm at work...
Thanks for being humble enough to come back here and state your revised view after checking Scripture.
If you go to the blog you'll see the dangers of this teaching by the comments:
http://tinyurl.com/2v3luy6
Very clearly MSoG -- self as god.
JD -
An excellent summary of why this forum exists - to inform and to allow us the opportunity to give and take as we together seek the truth - all very healthy.
Challenging ideas, and their underlying assumptions, without personal attack, is an important part of this process. You only really understand an idea when you can successfully explain and defend your position - why there is so little discernment today.
Dave in CA
"When an evil man is scourged
a wise man takes heed; and when
a wise man is reproved, he will
gain understanding."
Proverbs 19:25
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