The scriptures are clear: "You were once a stranger in a strange land. THEREFORE, you shall treat the stranger among you with kindness. For that, if no other reason, I have never found it in my heart to support anti-immigration campaigns. I have many friends who feel differently, but I have stood my ground on this over the years. Now, it appears that the anti-immigration forces might be the catalyst for increased demand for human microchipping. A Republican physician running for office in Iowa recently said this:
“I think we should catch ’em, we should document ’em, make sure we know where they are and where they are going,” said Pat Bertroche, an Urbandale physician. “I actually support microchipping them. I can microchip my dog so I can find it. Why can’t I microchip an illegal?
“That’s not a popular thing to say, but it’s a lot cheaper than building a fence they can tunnel under,” Bertroche said.
NO, not my cat, not my dog, not my neighbor, not the alleged illegal immigrant, and definitely NOT ME! JD and Susanna have done tremendous research on the "total tracking for global sustainability." "Sustainability" is the New Age spin on the topic. Anti-Immigration is the right wing spin on the subject.
I no more want Fascism wrapped in an American flag than a Green one!
Stay alert -- stay tuned
Stay UNCHIPPED!
CONSTANCE
226 comments:
1 – 200 of 226 Newer› Newest»"NO, not my cat, not my dog, not my neighbor, not the alleged illegal immigrant, and definitely NOT ME!"
AMEN, Constance . . . this is chilling!!!
Thanks for posting this Constance. I have been concerned over what the fall out will be over the Arizona bill. It seems to me that there are too many opportunities for 4th amendment violations. That is not to say that nothing should be done about a very difficult issue, just that this solution has too many opportunities for abuse.
I suspected the answer would end up being a pushing for national identification, whether it be a Smart Card or chip. With other things such as healthcare requiring a new unique identifier, the timing on all of this is far too suspicious to me. With this piece I see my concerns are justified.
So what is to stop the illegals from removing a chip once it is implanted or for that matter anyone who may have one forced upon them removed?
Several news items up on this already --
"News results for microchip immigrants
The AtlanticWire (blog) GOP candidate's 'microchip an illegal' comment draws outrage - 4 hours ago
By Andrew McLemore The argument over Arizona's harsh new immigration law has ... catch illegal immigrants and document their whereabouts with microchips, ...
Raw Story - 77 related articles »
Yup, microchips are the answer to illegal immigration - Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)
Congressional candidate says illegal immigrants should have ... - Los Angeles Times (blog) - 2 related articles »
GOP candidate's call to microchip immigrants draws backlash ...
Apr 28, 2010 ... A Republican candidate for Congress in Iowa's 3rd District calling for microchips to be installed in immigrants in the country illegally is ...
minnesotaindependent.com/.../gop-candidate’s-call-to-microchip-immigrants-draws-backlash - 13 hours ago
GOP idea: Microchip immigrants « Later On
Apr 28, 2010 ... GOP idea: Microchip immigrants. Posted in Daily life, GOP, ... idea — implant microchips in undocumented immigrants to keep track of them: ...
leisureguy.wordpress.com/.../gop-idea-microchip-immigrants/ - 8 hours ago
Proposal to Implant Tracking Chips in Immigrants | LiveScience
May 31, 2006 ... Proposal to Implant Tracking Chips in Immigrants ... Implanting microchips in human beings for the purpose of monitoring is not exactly news ...
www.livescience.com/technology/060531_rfid_chips.html - Cached - Similar
Install microchips in illegal immigrants, GOP candidate says ...
Apr 27, 2010 ... Instead of building a border fence to help stem illegal immigration, the U.S. government should implant microchips into immigrants before ...
iowaindependent.com/.../install-microchips-in-illegal-immigrants-gop-candidate-says - Cached
FulfilledProphecy.Com • View topic - Immigrant-tracking with ...
2 posts - 1 author - Last post: May 5, 2006
"I doubted whether the implantation of microchips would be effective since the immigrant worker might be able to remove them." ...
www.fulfilledprophecy.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=7&t... - Cached
Pat Bertroche: Iowa Congressional Candidate Wants Microchips In ...
Apr 27, 2010 ... Pat Bertroche: Iowa Congressional Candidate Wants Microchips In Illegal Immigrants. First Posted: 04-27-10 04:30 PM | Updated: 04-27-10 ...
www.huffingtonpost.com/.../pat-bertroche-iowa-congre_n_554073.html - Cached
Another Republican solution to illegal immigration: Microchip 'em ...
Apr 28, 2010 ... Up in Iowa, Republicans are brainstorming on solutions to the immigration mess: Third District GOP congressional hopefuls called for more ...
crooksandliars.com/david.../another-republican-solution-illegal - 7 hours ago
Think Progress » GOP congressional candidate: We should put ...
Apr 28, 2010 ... 128 Responses to “GOP congressional candidate: We should put microchips in undocumented immigrants, like we do with dogs.” ...
thinkprogress.org/2010/04/28/microchip-immigrant/ - 10 hours ago
Candidate: Use Microchips To Track Immigrants - Politics News ...
Apr 27, 2010 ... TOLEDO, Iowa -- A Republican congressional candidate says he supports inserting microchips into illegal immigrants to track their movements, ...
www.kcci.com/politics/23283356/detail.html - Cached
Congressional candidate says illegal immigrants should have ...
Apr 28, 2010 ... Iowa congressional candidate Pat Betroche says illegal immigrants should be micro-chipped. Once remarks become controversial, he "clarified" ...
latimesblogs.latimes.com/.../illegal-immigration-dogs-microchip-pat-betroche-iowa.html - 10 hours ago
Anon 11:27,
It is not that simple, the system being implemented has everything being tagged. So for instance, someone gets chipped, removes said chip, the clothing they are wearing will still contain a RFID tag, any product they may be carrying will still be chipped, any thing they interact with will be capable of identifying those individual things. So now a reader has a pair of pants, a shirt, shoes, socks and wallet that it recognizes without a body wearing them.
One may think this would be far fetched or at best a far off idea, but you would be suprised as to how much of the infrastructure is already in place for this exact purpose. Not to mention how many product providers, clothing manufacturers, etc are already chipping their products.
Dear JD,
Does that mean that I may have to embrace my 'birthday suit' as a lifestyle?
I may need to stock pile a lot of Mederma for the stretch marks.
Just thought a little levity was in order. :)
By His Grace,
-SV
I agree Constance. The flood of illegals in any country is a sign that the country IS DYING because the populous REFUSES to change the evil government they have that let them inside in the first place. It’s not the Aliens fault:
"...Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle, and the offspring of your flocks... The alien who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. He shall lend to you, but you shall not lend to him." - Deut: 28:17-18,43-44 KJV
About “On” or “In.”
The Textus Receptus states that the mark will be on or upon the hand or forehead. The George Ricker Berry Interlinear Greek-English New Testament (Textus Receptus) reads thus:
“And it causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bondmen, that it should give them a mark ON their right hand, or ON their foreheads; and that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except he who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of its name.” Rev. 13:16-17
Regardless. They ain’t markin’ me!
JD, looking for more updates on your blog...
Found this quote from story below.
"Simply put, passive low-frequency RFID is the most thoroughly tested and proven RFID system available today for identifying, tracking and maintaining valuable assets. It’s highly reliable, with more than 15 years of actual field deployment and experience, and has literally tens of millions of tags that are currently in active use in zoo animals, companion animals, wildlife, gas cylinders, soda drink containers (e.g. Coca Cola), automobiles (e.g. Mercedes Benz), containers, livestock, pallets, tools, ski lifts, warehouse stock, etc."
http://thatsjustplumdumb.com/index.php/2010/03/passive-low-frequency-rfid-to-identify-track-maintain-military-weapons-and-sensitive-items-2/
"GUILT BY ASSOCIATION?
By Lynn Stuter
February 26, 2008
NewsWithViews.com
Do you get on an airplane only if all the people on that airplane agree with your beliefs? Do you buy a house only in a neighborhood where everyone agrees with your beliefs?
And if your next door neighbor speaks against someone because of the color of their skin or their religious beliefs, and you are seen talking to that person or helping that person, does that mean you agree 100% with his/her beliefs?
Are you guilty of their sins by association?
As a contributing writer to NewsWithViews.com, I received an e-mail last night from an individual identifying herself as “Dorothy Margraf.” Whether that is truly her name or not, I cannot say. This is the first e-mail I’ve ever received from her.
The gist of her correspondence was that, by having a link to the Republic Broadcasting Network website on the NewsWithViews.com website, NewsWithViews.com and its writers will be viewed as anti-Semitic. Ms Margraf was sure that NewsWithViews writers wouldn’t want to be placed in that category and encouraged writers to contact the NewsWithViews staff and voice our displeasure at being put in this position.
First, let me say that I am not familiar with Republic Broadcasting Network, its writers, its views, or the website for RBN in general. To say I have an opinion of that particular website from my cursory viewing of it would be a misnomer.
At random, I selected one of the links provided by Ms Margraf in her e-mail as being anti-Semetic: Here, in part, is what I found.
“We would like to take a few minutes of your time to prevent you from making a terrible mistake that may have disastrous results for many.
You have always without a doubt heard and read much about the political crises in the Middle East in which the State of Israel plays a central role. This is, in fact, an ongoing series of crises with potential to bring the greatest misfortune on the entire world. Tragically many believe that Zionism and Judaism are identical. Thus they conclude that the entire Jewish people is responsible for the actions of the Zionist government and the world crises which emanates from it. This is a Grave Error!
The truth is that the Jewish faith and Zionism are two very different philosophies. They are as opposite as day and night. The Jewish people have existed for thousands of years. In their two thousand years of Divinely decreed exile no Jew ever sought to end this exile and establish independent political sovereignty anywhere. The people's sole purpose was the study and fulfillment of the Divine commandments of the Torah.
The Zionist movement created the Israeli state. The latter is a persuasion less than one hundred years old. Its essential goal was and is to change the nature of the Jewish people from that of a religious entity to a political movement. From Zionism's inception the spiritual leaders of the Jewish people stood in staunch opposition to it.
To this day Torah Jewry remains forever loyal to its faith. Zionists want the world to believe that they are the representatives of the entire Jewish people. This is false! The Jewish people never chose them as their leaders."
http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter120.htm
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"The Zionists have deceived many well meaning Jewish people via terror, trickery and false propaganda. They have at their disposal the use of a nearly universally subservient media. Whoever attempts to criticize them puts his livelihood and, at times, his very life in danger.
However, despite the media blackout and easy resort to terror the simple truth remains unrefuted and irrefutable: ACCORDING TO THE JEWISH FAITH AND TORAH LAW THE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE FORBIDDEN TO HAVE THEIR OWN STATE WHILE AWAITING THE MESSIANIC ERA!
The Creator gave us the Holy Land thousands of years ago. Yet, when we sinned, He took it away and sent us into exile. Since that time our task is to wait for Him to send the Messiah. At that time, the Creator alone, without any human being lifting a hand or saying a word, will bring us together and take us out of exile. He will likewise establish universal peace among all mankind and all will serve Him in good will.
Some religious Jews, confused by Zionist propaganda quote Biblical verses that state that G-d gave the children of Israel the Holy Land. They overlook, unfortunately, those verses which say that He took it away due to our sins. They further ignore those prophecies which explicitly describe the last exile's conclusion as a Divine, not a human process.
The Creator has commanded every Jew to follow the ways of peace and to be loyal to the country where he lives.
Torah true Jewry waits patiently for the Messianic redemption. They have nothing to do with any kind of pseudo "Jewish State" and its aggressions against other peoples. They have a deep sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians who have suffered the most from Zionism's false teachings and barbaric actions. The Zionist state is not a Jewish state. The Zionists alone are the only ones responsible for their actions. Authentic Jewry has and will continue to oppose the very existence of this blasphemous state.
May all mankind witness the true redemption.”
http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter120.htm
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"I sent the above to Ms Margraf, asking, “Do you have a problem with this explanation of the difference between the Jewish faith and Zionism?”
Ms Margraf’s response to my query, in part:
“I have no problem with criticism of Israel, Judaism or Jews as long as it honestly presents the position of the majority in the Jewish community. Zionism is used by hardcore antisemites as a way to covertly criticize Jews. The equivalent is criticizing all Christians on the basis of Rick Warren's or Shuller's teachings.”
Part of the problem with the “it’s the Jews stupid” philosophy is that believers don’t seem to be able to differentiate those of the Jewish faith from Zionists which is why they continually equate Jews with Zionists.
As such, I responded to Ms Margraf as follows:
“So what you are saying, basically, is that there is no difference between Jews and Zionists. I disagree, just as I disagree that the Church Growth Movement (Rick Warren) and Christianity are the same. If we are not to criticize Zionists because they might be equated with Jews, then we are not to criticize Rick Warren because he might be equated with a Christian. This thinking is how they’ve gotten where they are and it is thinking that needs to stop. At the same time, the differences need to be consistently pointed out such that people understand what the differences are. I would think people of the Jewish faith would not want to be lumped in with Zionists and would welcome that just as Christians don’t want to be lumped in with the Church Growth Movement and the New Age Movement and welcome explanation of what the differences are.
I’ve spent my share of time fighting the ‘it’s the Jews stupid’ philosophy. On the other hand, just because NewsWithViews has agreed to exchange links with RBN for a few months does not necessarily mean NewsWithViews joins RBN in the views expressed on RBN. Maybe RBN readers will get a fresh viewpoint at NewsWithViews. Maybe that will help them to realize that the ‘it’s the Jews stupid’ philosophy is really just that: stupid. And I seriously doubt that anyone who does much reading on NewsWithViews will come away with the conviction that the writers there are anti-Semitic.
Thank you for writing and expressing your views.”
I speak for no other writer at NewsWithViews.com; nor do I speak for those who run NewsWithViews.com, but does the Bible not teach us to hate the sin but love the sinner? Was it not Jesus’ mission on earth to walk among the sinners, to teach them, to lead them to God’s word? Are believers not commanded to go forth and witness among non-believers?"
http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter120.htm
"Thanks Dorothy, for that perfect New Age interpretation (excerpt) of Kabbala...
"They attain higher planes of consciousness and gain a new harmony with all their surroundings. These aspects as well as their love and affection for all beings, contribute to their self perfection."
The quest for "Self perfection" certainly puts the Kabbalah into perspective. After all, isn't that what the New Age, (the old lie), is all about?
Ah, to become enlightened, a perfected master, a smiling Buddha...no need for god...no, not when you is one, or at least, are on the road to becoming one.
omots"
WELL SPOTTED OMOTS!
It is not anti-immigration. It is anti-illegal immigration that most Americans are against. Your statement says that you support law breaking because of the warm fuzzy feeling you get. The scripture you quote does not in any way support law breaking. You took it out of context.
R. M.
I don't know if there are any solutions to this issue that could be called "simple" or "easy."
While it is true that the Scriptures say ""You were once a stranger in a strange land. THEREFORE, you shall treat the stranger among you with kindness," the Scriptures do NOT say that we have to support criminal behavior and/or enable people to commit crimes.
Unlike the illegal aliens in this country, the Biblical "strangers in a strange land" did not enter the land illegally. In Egypt, they entered with the permission of Joseph who had been made a governor of Egypt. The people from Judah living in Babylon were kidnapped and taken there by force, so any illegality was on the part of their Babylonian captors and not the people of Judah - hence the term "Babylonian Captivity."
Our Lord's very words "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's" imply more than simply paying taxes. It implies the legitimate authority of the state to protect its citizens from all enemies both foreign and domestic.
The following article gives an excellent Biblical perspective on immigration policy:
A Biblical Perspective on Immigration Policy
By James R. Edwards Jr.
September 2009
Backgrounders and Reports
The immigration issue often highlights fissures between faithful parishioners and denominational clerics. Many Catholic bishops have called for amnesty for illegal immigrants, and their conference’s lobbying arm works continually with open-borders special interests. Catholic and “mainline” Protestant church officials have decried the federal government’s enforcement of immigration laws. Some liberal religious leaders re-initiated a “sanctuary” movement to harbor illegal aliens, including in churches. A Southern Baptist official has sided with amnesty proponents as pragmatism, and the National Association of Evangelicals plans to weigh in, likely on the pro “comprehensive immigration reform” side.1
Yet such self-described “compassion” among religious elites differs from the perspective of most rank-and-file Christians. The laity generally opposes legalization and supports enforcement of immigration laws.2 One may ask: How else could Christians approach immigration policy matters?
This Backgrounder examines the immigration issue from the perspective of biblical Christianity. Both policy makers and private citizens who are Christians may wish to consider how Scripture might inform their views on immigration. This report intends to aid those faithful readers.
The faith principles of many Americans inform their politics and public policy. And the United States has a long, historical connection with Christian influence, dating to the country’s earliest days. Today, the vast majority (about four fifths) of Americans belong to the Christian religion. Some of the most prominent recent examples of faith-influenced politics are freedom of religious expression in public life, abortion, and same-sex marriage.
On some matters of public policy, the Bible speaks clearly. On other issues, there is less clarity and more room for prudential judgment. The rub comes where there is a lack of scriptural clarity on a particular issue, significant differences between the particular society of Old Testament Israel and the United States, or some other factor.
Christianity teaches that God, His word, and His precepts are unchanging, but believers may struggle to find the most appropriate guidance from Scripture for handling a very specific public policy issue for their day and age in their nation. This conundrum of finding and applying the right, timeless principles to a modern policy issue in a specific nation challenges both the laity and clerics. This report attempts to shed helpful light, in the best tradition of reasoning from the Scriptures (Acts 17:2).
cont.....
The faith principles of many Americans inform their politics and public policy. And the United States has a long, historical connection with Christian influence, dating to the country’s earliest days. Today, the vast majority (about four fifths) of Americans belong to the Christian religion. Some of the most prominent recent examples of faith-influenced politics are freedom of religious expression in public life, abortion, and same-sex marriage.
On some matters of public policy, the Bible speaks clearly. On other issues, there is less clarity and more room for prudential judgment. The rub comes where there is a lack of scriptural clarity on a particular issue, significant differences between the particular society of Old Testament Israel and the United States, or some other factor.
Christianity teaches that God, His word, and His precepts are unchanging, but believers may struggle to find the most appropriate guidance from Scripture for handling a very specific public policy issue for their day and age in their nation. This conundrum of finding and applying the right, timeless principles to a modern policy issue in a specific nation challenges both the laity and clerics. This report attempts to shed helpful light, in the best tradition of reasoning from the Scriptures (Acts 17:2).
First, this Backgrounder examines the biblical role of civil government. This includes its weighing justice and mercy, as well as determining which biblical guidance more appropriately applies to individuals and which to society. Second, migration in Scripture is considered. Third, what is the responsibility of immigrants and would-be immigrants? The Backgrounder concludes with the application of biblical principles to 21st century American immigration....
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Civil Government’s Biblical Role
A central question must be answered before a biblically informed immigration policy may be determined: What role does God intend civil government to fulfill? After all, earthly government will be the mechanism through which public policy is formulated.
Scripture clearly indicates that God charges civil authorities with preserving order, protecting citizens, and punishing wrongdoers. A prime passage is Romans 13:1-7:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.3
Similar teachings, such as I Peter 2:13-17 and Titus 3:1, urge citizens to obey secular authorities, because they hold godly agency, whether the individuals in charge are personally characterized by godliness or not. This conduct of good citizenship is one means of revering God. Earthly governors “bear the sword” on behalf of those under their authority — for instance, preserving law and order, fighting off invaders, and meting out punishment to those who break the law.
The authority God delegates to civil government focuses on justice, not mercy (though this is not to say laws should not be tempered by mercy). Biblical teachings of mercy generally apply to individual conduct, not to civil authorities. Further, standards of justice are not fully moral if they are not accompanied by judgment and punishment. These two elements (judgment and punishment) are integral, or else justice is not just.
In other words, civil government has been delegated authority to use force because government fulfills the role of protector of a specific body politic and the members of that political society. The reason the sword of justice has been delegated to earthly governments is for protection of a defined set of people who live under a government’s jurisdiction. It is not power for power’s sake, but power to protect and defend a state’s own people and resources. Earthly rulers are to guard their own citizens against evil in the world and in the hearts of men....
....
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...And God holds rulers accountable for their official conduct (e.g., Deut. 17:14-20). Christians understand this delegation of authority to protectors in the civil realm to be a tangible safeguard against the consequences of the sin nature that inherently resides in every person.4 Hence, national defense and police powers manifest the central role given to the government. A given government’s responsibility under God is to safeguard its citizens.
These points concerning civil government relate to immigration policy in several ways. One is the implication of national sovereignty, which includes the right to determine the grounds for admitting foreigners into the jurisdiction, and on what conditions. It also leads to the deduction that immigration policies should principally benefit citizens, not harm citizens’ well-being. Further, its implications include the prerogative of punishment or expulsion of those foreigners who do not abide by the civil laws, including immigration laws, as well as determining the criteria and conditions for foreigners’ admission. These sorts of prudential judgments may change according to the prevailing situation.
Old Testament Principles. Even the passages of Scripture most often cited by religious advocates of mass immigration and amnesty plainly do not argue for open borders. Rather, these writings generally reflect “equal justice under law” principles.
Consider Leviticus 19:33-34: “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.” Similarly reads Exodus 22:21: “You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.”
Dr. Stephen Steinlight has noted that the Hebrew term for “sojourn” means temporary stay.5 A related term used in some scriptural translations is “stranger.” One Bible dictionary says, “This word generally denotes a person from a foreign land residing in Palestine. Such persons enjoyed many privileges in common with the Jews, but still were separate from them. The relation of the Jews to strangers was regulated by special laws (Deut. 23:3; 24:14-21; 25:5; 26:10-13).”6 This Bible dictionary defines “two classes of aliens: 1) those who were temporary visitors, who owned no landed property; and 2) those who held permanent residence without becoming citizens (Lev. 22:10; Ps. 19:12). Both of these classes were to enjoy, under certain conditions, the same rights as other citizens (Lev. 19:33, 34; Deut. 10:19).”7 Again, those rights amounted to equal standing under the law, or having the benefit of the rule of law. Therefore, it is biblically inaccurate to incorporate, automatically and dogmatically, permanent immigration into every such term......
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Nor is it reasonable to jump to the conclusions many on the open borders side do about related passages. These activists claim that such passages mandate that a society welcome any and all foreigners presenting themselves. No such passages state or imply overlooking illegality committed on the part of the alien in his entry. Nor is there any requirement of unlimited or uncontrolled admittance of those who are members of another nation or society. Assertions like those are, at a minimum, a wrong reading. Such verses actually indicate nothing about the grounds for alien admission to ancient Israel.
In fact, as Steinlight and others have noted, a fair reading of the relevant Old Testament passages makes clear that foreign residents were to comply with Israelite laws, such as Sabbath observance (e.g., Deut. 16:9-15). Furthermore, the law God laid down for Israel allowed legal distinctions to be drawn between native Jews and resident aliens. For instance, Deuteronomy 15 commands the remission of the debts of fellow Israelites every seven years, but “[o]f a foreigner you may exact” his debts (v. 3). A chapter before, Hebrews receive permission to sell or give foreigners “unclean”food (see Deut. 14:21).
Another theme stands out in the Bible. God regards borders as meaningful and important (see, for instance, Prov. 22:28 and Prov. 23:10-11). Consider Deuteronomy 32:8: “When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.” Ezekiel 47:13-23 details the Promised Land’s boundaries. Numbers 34:1-15 describes the borders the Lord established for each tribe of Israel. Deuteronomy 19:14 commands against moving a neighboring tribe’s boundary stone marking a given tribe of Israel’s inheritance in the Promised Land. Another example appears three months after the Israelites left Egypt. The base of Mount Sinai was made off-limits (see Exodus 19:12ff), under penalty of death, until the people had been consecrated. Resident aliens who had children and settled in Israel (largely because of Israel’s failure to complete the mandate to remove them) were allowed private property in Israel (Ezek. 47:21-23). However, numerous times Israelites are warned against letting the aliens’ pagan practices corrupt God-given moral standards.
God also employed foreigners as instruments of His justice, with invasion as a curse (just as he used the Israelites to exact justice against the pagans residing in the Promised Land). For example, II Chronicles 36 describes the decline of Judah, the culmination of kingships and continual disobedience by God’s people. This sad passage tells of the Chaldean conquest of Israel and the judgment meted by the Babylonian captivity. The curse in Deuteronomy 28:43-44 reads: “The sojourner who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. He shall lend to you, and you shall not lend to him. He shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.” That curse plays out throughout Old Testament history.
In short, the Old Testament teaches fair treatment of resident foreigners, with certain requirements of the aliens related to religious and civil legal standards. It also instructs that aliens were to assimilate to the Hebrew culture. Boundaries are meaningful, as well, and foreign presence among the Hebrews on several occasions was a curse. Few details of immigration procedures, standards, or other policy prescriptions appear. To infer some open-borders or mass-amnesty mandate from what actually appears in Scripture is wrong....
cont...
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Justice and Mercy. Believers have long grasped the instruction of passages such as Micah 6:8: “He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?” Some translations use the word “mercy” instead of “kindness.” American University Professor Daniel Driesbach has found Micah 6:8 to rank among the most cited scriptures by America’s founding generation.
Justice and mercy, along with a godly life, are fundamental principles of biblical conduct. Justice and mercy are complementary principles. They informed the thoughts of America’s Founders as they fashioned a government for the new nation.
Government’s wielding of the sword of justice is well established, biblically, as discussed earlier. Jesus did not challenge that principle, either toward Rome or other earthly authorities, nor did He question the legitimacy of civil (or religious) government.
Government’s exercise of mercy is more challenging than its role in ensuring justice. Examples of mercy in public policy exist; for instance, granting a criminal a pardon or parole before he serves out his prison sentence, having proportionality for punishment of a crime (e.g., an eye for an eye, rather than a life for an eye). But most such policies aim in a rifle-shot fashion at individual cases, and often they involve some level of merit. U.S. immigration statutes have provided for suspending deportation in certain exceptional hardship cases. The adverse effects of not carrying out the justice due against guilty individuals are reduced somewhat by these acts’ limited scope and infrequent application.
When considering mercy as public policy, however, an important distinction must be drawn. Not every moral or ethical teaching in the Bible fits cleanly or applies equally to both individuals and societies. This is certainly true with justice and mercy. The case for civil authorities executing justice is much plainer, while their application of mercy in public policies is merely tempering, not predominant. Legislating mercy requires prudence, restraint, and good judgment.
Similarly, Jesus affirmed the place of civil government, the executor of justice. Christ said in Matthew 21:22: “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And Jesus Christ told the rich young man to sell his belongings and follow Him (an individual act of obedience with merciful effect), yet he never advocated a public policy of extorting or impoverishing the better off. From such facts we may infer certain actions as appropriate by individuals and not by civil government, and vice versa. This principle accords with the idea that not every sin (moral offense) should necessarily be against the civil law in a particular land.8
A classic teaching on mercy comes in Luke 6:27-31. In this passage, Jesus says:
“But I say to you who here, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.”
The last sentence readers will recognize as the Golden Rule. Christ’s instruction here applies to individuals instead of governments.
The reason is the difference between actors and agents. As an agent for members of the body politic, civil government acts on behalf of a larger group of people. Civil authorities have no resources other than what citizens entrust to them. Every obligation civil authorities take on they do in their capacity as public agents, not personally (other than, say, as individual taxpayers themselves)....
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In other words, these agents (or representatives) are delegated to weigh what obligations the body politic will take on, and their decisions obligate individuals living under their jurisdiction to fulfill them. For instance, policy makers may decide to establish a program to provide for the widows and orphans of fallen military servicemen. This may be regarded as a policy on the mercy side of the equation. However, the government has just obligated individual citizens at large to fund and maintain this program. Thus, the practical consequences of civil government’s “mercy” actually are borne by the citizenry.
Related to this is the familiar passage about treatment of “the least of these my brothers” — the hungry, the naked, the stranger, the prisoner. The passage in Matthew 25:31-46 plainly concerns the eternal reward or punishment of individuals. The judgment here is based on individual acts of kindness, as private persons. It becomes highly problematic to ascribe the specific mercy ministries this passage cites to bodies politic.
It invites skepticism to conclude that feeding the hungry or welcoming the stranger as a matter of public policy at public cost is implied here. And given that immigration policies pit the interests and well-being of citizens of a body politic against those of people subject to other national jurisdictions, laws that privilege foreigners, wealthy elites, and special interests over the welfare of citizens (particularly average and less fortunate members of society) are, at a minimum, morally obtuse. “The least of these” in this context are those with a claim to particular authorities’ protection, not foreigners or native elites.
Similarly, the notion of neighborliness illustrates the individual (versus societal) obligation. The Good Samaritan parable exemplifies the commandment to love one’s neighbor as one loves oneself. It appears in Luke 10:25-37, where the social outcast in the story Jesus tells acts more as a true neighbor than do more outwardly upstanding characters. It shows one’s investing himself in someone in need, taking mercy, as the example of loving neighbor.
While principles from this example may serve in certain public policy areas, the model largely applies to individuals. At the policy level, it would be too easy for the state to demand conduct best exercised voluntarily by individuals, not under compulsion.9 Such is not mercy, nor is it motivated by love. The same goes for the state erroneously regarding foreigners as “neighbors” and treating them better in certain ways than its own citizens.
And while the general principles of mercy Christ mentions here may inform certain public policies, it would be wrong to jump to particular policies as justified (or mandated) here (such as U.S. funding of foreign programs that perversely result in dependency and illegitimacy). For each national government, “the least of these” will be native-born sufferers, the less fortunate of its own nation, those who stand to lose if forced to compete for jobs or education, for example, with people who would immigrate from some other nation (whose own civil authorities are responsible for their welfare). Further, in the United States, federal authorities are constrained by the U.S. Constitution, which limits their authority to certain denominated duties.
It is important to note another element of justice. God brings reward and punishment to human societies this side of eternity. Corporate entities such as civil societies have no existence except in the here and now. Thus, they temporally experience consequences affecting the whole. Scripture teaches that individuals are ultimately responsible for their personal sin or righteousness, but those personal moral dimensions affect the life of the body politic, as well. An aspect of this principle involves God’s empowering specific civil rulers over particular peoples (e.g., Deut. 32:8; Prov. 8:15-16; Acts 17:26).....
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Every ruler acts in accordance with God’s sovereignty, knowingly or not, though the reasons for certain political actions may not always be discernable to finite human beings (e.g., Prov. 21:1; Prov. 28:16; Prov. 29:26). Those who rule justly achieve a kind of temporal blessing for their body politic (e.g., Prov. 21:15; Prov. 29:4; Prov. 29:14). National character matters and has ramifications for a people, and the nation characterized by righteousness pleases God (e.g., Prov. 11:10-11; Prov. 14:34; Prov. 16:12).
The Old Testament constantly illustrates this notion of dealing with corporate reward or judgment. Before the Israelites entered the Promised Land, Moses gathered the people and stated the corporate blessings and curses the nation would receive based on whether the people obeyed God’s commands. Deuteronomy 28 spells out the blessings and curses. Verses 43-44 list among the Lord’s curses the resident alien’s rise above the natives: “The sojourner who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. He shall lend to you, and you shall not lend to him. He shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.”
Later on, God brought judgment upon the Hebrew people, corporately, and other nations and kingdoms, corporately, such as through the Babylonian conquest of Israel. Temporal entities cannot be rewarded or punished in the hereafter; that realm is reserved for reward or judgment of individuals. Civil government should therefore heed the lesson that public conduct carries corporately shared consequences.
Getting back to Christ’s pronouncement to Christians in Luke 6, government can only exercise mercy through its agency. Compassion and mercy, when individuals exercise them, amount to their decision willingly to bear an injustice. It is merciful when a private person turns the other cheek, gives up his tunic, and gives to a beggar. However, the government cannot do any of those things; it only can obligate the members of its society to do so.
A compassionate act, when exercised by an individual, often becomes an injustice when compelled by civil government — the agents who are supposed to be the guardians of justice and protectors of the innocent, “the least of these,” the citizens or subjects of their jurisdiction. Thus, for example, writing into the U.S. Constitution a prohibition against cruel punishment (e.g., torture, which European governments had instituted, such as in the Spanish Inquisition or the English Star Chamber) is an appropriate adaptation of the biblical standards of mercy; freeing thieves and batterers from facing imprisonment, restitution, and accountability to society is inappropriate and not merciful....
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The definitely is no easy answer to illegal immigration and at least Arizona got the ball rolling. Decades of doing nothing hasn't worked.
However, I'm certainly opposed to the microchipping plan. This is what we might do with animals, but shouldn't do with people. They would certainly give the government test subjects for this technology, but this is more in-line with Nazi Germany.
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How might this concept apply in U.S. immigration policy? Take amnesty, for example. Forgiving foreigners for entering the country illegally or staying when their visas expire might be seen as “merciful” or “compassionate,” at least in its effect on the people gaining legal status without having to suffer the consequences the law otherwise would require of them. However, the government, as agent, has acted in such a way that coerces innocent citizens and law-abiding immigrants to suffer the consequences.
In recent amnesty proposals, 12 million or more illegal aliens would be legalized. These amnestied lawbreakers would tie up the immigration bureaucracy; introduce through chain migration millions of relatives into an already clogged system; qualify for scarce public resources such as Medicaid, welfare, and other public assistance; and the costs of all these things would be borne by American taxpayers. Furthermore, the scale of such “mercy” would do harm to many Americans and communities, and lead to more illegal immigration by the signal such policies would send (and indeed have sent with previous amnesties).
Migration in the Bible
While movement of people spans the Old Testament from Adam to Abraham to Moses to Ruth, no immigration policy (the terms and conditions for admission or expulsion of aliens) is spelled out. Moreover, Scripture provides no uniform immigration policy mandate intended to apply to every body politic throughout human history.
Each instance of migration in the Old Testament is different. These movements span hundreds of years and diverse conditions. It would be foolish to assert an immigration policy for the United States based on such passages. The best Christians can do today is to identify the principles that aptly fit their particular society’s circumstances.
Most instances of migration in biblical history are particular to the individuals involved. For instance, God ordered Adam and Eve to flee the Garden of Eden or face certain death (Genesis 3:23-24). This forced migration occurred because of their disobedience.
God Himself led certain individuals or households to move to different locations. Each move recorded in Scripture helped fulfill His purpose in biblical history. None appears to have involved illegality. Each segment of the biblical narrative and the people in that historical line have a unique, specific purpose leading toward the coming of the Messiah and the subsequent spread of the Gospel....
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THIS IS WHAT THE WIDER JEWISH COMMUNITY THINKS OF DOROTHY'S SPEND-THRIFT WITH THE ANTI-SEMITIC CARD!!!
http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=h-antisemitism&month=0302&week=&msg=h/jSsXy%2bLrUHLbB/G7rd6Q&user=&pw=
http://h-net.msu.edu/
cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?
trx=vx&list=h-antisemitism&month=0302&week=&msg=h/
jSsXy%2bLrUHLbB/G7rd6Q&user=&pw=
"I am really disappointed this thread is being sent around on this list.
I find the reasoning of MS. MARGRAF to be... a prime
example of how the term anti-Semitism is being cheapened.
It now seems that anti-Semitism is a catch all phrase that some Jews are using to express displeasure with anything or anyone they disagree with. To regard Sandi Dubowski's film as anti-Semitic is simply ludicrous.
Just because he is more sympathetic to a much maligned group of Jews within the world of
orthodoxy does not in any way suggest anti-Semitism...
If Ms. Margraf's logic is upheld then are all opponents of Orthodox Judaism
anti-Semites? Are Reform and Conservative Jews anti-Semites?
Avi Mendelssohn"
BUT WAIT, DOROTHY IS A CONSERVATIVE JEW ISN'T SHE?!
SEE 201 – 368 of 368 of ( My perspective -- What Constance thinks) "what björn (farmer) thinks...: Solana called to create more global management structures"
Anon@5:03PM asked: "Dorothy, what sect of Judaism do you practice?"
Dorothy@5:38PM replied:
"Because there is no way I could change my lifestyle enough to belong to an Orthodox Judaism community in these later years of my life, I think like an Orthodox Jew but belong to a Conservative congregation."
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More routine human movement in biblical times was governed by each particular destination. City-states had walls and gates and thereby controlled entry and exit. Much migration was temporary or nomadic. For example, traders, shepherds, and others traversed open spaces. Sojourners would move from location to location, in different city-states and kingdoms, to ply their trades and made a living on the move. Craftsmen would spend periods away from home hiring themselves out. At all times, the local governments or rulers held ultimate control over admission, expulsion, and the terms of stay (see, for example, Nehemiah 13:15-22).
During the Israelite journey, Moses sought permission for the Hebrew people to travel into Edom. He petitioned the Edomite king (Numbers 20:14-21). The king denied permission; Moses appealed, and the king again denied entry. Edom sent its army out to enforce its borders. While this action by Edom was not “hospitable,” it was legitimate. The Canaanite king of Arad (Numbers 21:1-3) launched a preemptive military strike against the Hebrews. That aggression resulted in the Lord’s favoring Israel in a counterstrike, in which the Hebrew army defeated Arad.
Similarly, Moses petitioned the Amorite king, Sihon, to pass through his territory (Numbers 21:21-31). Sihon, too, sent out his army, initiated combat, but lost the battle and consequently his life and his land. Israel stopped short of neighboring Ammon (v. 24) because of its fortified border. Israel similarly won possession of Bashan, when its king, Og, deployed troops and engaged the Hebrews. In none of these or similar instances does the securing of one’s border per se appear to have provoked God’s wrath. Where exercising border security in a defensive posture, local kingdoms escaped punishment.
Of course, forced migration occurred as a result of national conquest. In many of these instances, God used pagan nations as instruments of punishment. Occasions such as the Babylonian exile of Israel in 586 B.C. (II Kings 24:10-25:21) illustrate God’s hand of judgment against the offending party to the Mosaic Covenant (see Exodus 20:1-17, 24:1-12). This mass migration was unwanted by the deportees.
New Testament times involved changed political circumstances. The independent Israelite kingdom was no more. Palestine had become conquered territory of the Roman Empire. Hence the Jewish religious leaders’ seeking Jesus’ political entrapment when he replied to “render to Caesar” one’s temporal, public duties (Matt. 22:15-22). Caesar maintained local authorities (e.g., King Herod) with Roman governors (e.g., Pontius Pilate) (see Luke 3:1-2). The imperial regime’s Pax Romana in certain ways eased travel and increased safety, as well as extended the privileges of Roman citizenship.
Caesar Augustus ordered a census (Luke 2:1-3). Thus, people like Mary and Joseph traveled to the hometown of their lineage. The couple later fled to Egypt for protection against King Herod (discussed below). The Jewish religious leaders persecuted followers of Jesus, recorded in the first several chapters of Acts. Acts 8:1-3 relates that the crackdown in Jerusalem scattered believers to other parts of Judea and Samaria. After Saul the Pharisee persecutor became Paul the apostle of Christ, he traveled throughout the Mediterranean region, from Jerusalem to Damascus to Crete to Athens to Rome. His missionary journeys were integral in spreading the faith, planting and growing churches. Acts 21 and 22 record that Paul was a Roman citizen by birth, and he relied on the rights of a Roman (see especially Acts 22:25-29)....
Read more.
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While I am certainly opposed to microchipping and violations of
4th Amendment rights, I am in favor of completing the border fence and the current Arizona law.
By the way, many of the law enforcement officials in arizona are themselves of Hispanic ethnicity.....probably the descendants of immigrants who entered this country LEGALLY!!!
Article on Biblical Perspective on Imigration Policy continues:
...The point here is that those subject to Roman rule, citizen or not, Christian or otherwise, benefited in tangible ways, such as lawful travel within the empire. And temporal citizenship served both God’s and early Christians’ interests, affording individuals such as Paul certain civil rights and privileges. Despite a less than perfect or moral civil authority, Christians of the early church “rendered unto Caesar the things that were Caesar’s.” There is no evidence here that early Christians broke any laws when crossing borders.
Humanitarian Migration. Some people mistake examples of fleeing persecution in particular instances in the lives of biblical characters with a broad mandate of open borders, where none exists. These examples most closely match modern refugee and asylum policies. Today, nations will accept foreigners as temporary or permanent residents, depending on the circumstances, because of warfare, natural disasters, or political or religious persecution in their homelands that makes it impossible for these people to continue residing there without exceptional danger.
Perhaps the most notable example comes in Mary and Joseph’s flight to Egypt. They fled King Herod’s murderous decree to kill all male Hebrew children under age two, after the Magi from the East failed to inform him who and where Jesus was. Matthew 2:16-21 recounts this event in the life of the very young Jesus. An angel warned Joseph of the danger and specified Egypt as the family’s destination. Verse 15 gives the scriptural reason for that destination, which was the fulfillment of prophecy pertaining to the Messiah.
Misguided modern misinterpretation not-withstanding, this act did not constitute illegal immigration. Nothing indicates that the holy family broke any Egyptian laws. Their intent was finding temporary humanitarian relief. They stayed only until they could return to Israel.10
Another example comes when David fled King Saul’s attempts to kill him. The book of I Samuel records Saul’s growing hatred of David, how David’s popularity as a war hero outshone his own military reputation (popular slogan at that time: Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands), and his self-imposed exile. First, David sought asylum with King Achish of Gath (in Philistine territory). This was hometown to David’s old archenemy, Goliath. David resorted to acting insane there, for safety, before returning to Judah to take refuge in a cave.
David fled — to his former enemy’s nation — to seek sanctuary (his destination maybe not the best judgment call, and apparently not specifically directed by God). But there was no illegal immigration involved. Nor was he punished for any sort of illegal entry (Achish’s advisors worried for national security reasons, though).
Instances such as the migration of Abraham (who fled to Egypt to escape famine; Genesis 12:10) and of Jacob’s entire household (invited by Pharaoh to Egypt, as Joseph’s family, to gain relief during a famine; Genesis 45-46) do not provide modern-day immigration or refugee policy prescriptions. They simply exemplify times in which ancestors of Christ sought humanitarian help and God provided it through governing authorities....
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No illegal immigration occurred here. The rulers of the receiving states were aware of the visitors’ presence. Importantly, Christians believe that God is sovereign over everything. Thus, if or when, in His providence, a state denied a believer entrance into its territory, God provided another means for meeting his needs. On occasion, Scripture shows the refusal to be part of God’s discipline or judgment. The answer, for the true faithful, is not to take matters into one’s own hands.
Something else should not be missed. Because Abraham lied about his wife’s marital status and the consequences that followed, Pharaoh ordered Abraham and Sarah (called Abram and Sarai at this time) to be deported from Egypt (Genesis 12:20). And the circumstance of the Hebrew people residing in Egypt soured as their stay became increasingly permanent and their presence became an internal security threat. Settlement by invitation led to enslavement and harsh measures, such as the killing of their offspring (Genesis 50:8ff).
Therefore, instances of migration chronicled in Scripture provide no sanction for open borders. These movements of people across territories generally deferred to the national sovereignty of the local authorities regarding whether or not to grant entrance. The theme given the Hebrews of fairly treating aliens and sojourners resembles “equal justice under law” more than an admonition to take all comers without conditions. Even humanitarian migration (fleeing persecution, etc.) did not trump national sovereignty, as preserving law and order even as it relates to immigration is a duty of governing authorities and a manifestation of general blessing (under common grace) of all lawful residents of a jurisdiction.
Additionally, particular movement on the part of certain individuals and of the Hebrew people to the Promised Land were elements of God’s carrying out His will through the affairs of men. They should not be generalized beyond their context of time, place, and actors. Absent perfectly clear direction by God, such as leading His chosen people by pillars of cloud and fire, believers after the age of Christ should default to immigration standards that particular states may enact, within their delegated sovereignty. That would seem the most in keeping with the will of a God whose character includes the quality of order....
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The Immigrant’s Responsibility
Advocates for illegal immigrants like to blur moral lines. They offer up illegal aliens who purport to be Christians.11 Yet, wrapping their lawbreaking in Christian terms stands at odds with the clearer teachings of Scripture. It becomes all the more curious when a supposed Christian justification overlooks conduct that might be regarded as inconsistent with biblical standards. For example, purportedly Christian illegal aliens set the poor example of a criminal life, often abandon their young children to grow up without a parent’s daily guidance, and leave their community back home without the influence of “salt and light.”12
Thus, what is the biblical position relating to those who would be immigrants? Have they the right to impose themselves on a sovereign nation, an established society?
First, the biblical standard for immigrants is that they obey the laws of a nation (the general standard for all, discussed above). Obviously, this relates to abiding by a nation’s decision whether or not to admit an alien, and on what terms and conditions. It also includes an assimilationist ethic. Foreigners duly admitted into a particular society are expected to assimilate, not impose their own customs, language, etc. and remake the receiving society in their own image.
Scripture passages such as Deuteronomy 16:9-15 illustrate the biblical assimilation ethic. Here, the Lord establishes for the Israelites the Feast of Weeks and the Feast of Tabernacles. These were religious observances, but also civil laws. In both cases, these laws required resident aliens to participate in the observance of these holidays. Likewise, the Fourth Commandment, calling for observance of the Sabbath day, also binds the resident alien (Deut. 5:14). Thus, in their public life, those aliens granted permission to reside in a nation owe a moral duty to the accepting nation to abide by its laws and assimilate to its customs. Such is morally responsible individual conduct in the context of immigration.
Second, forcing oneself on an existing nation is both unjust and unjustifiable. In other words, illegal immigration is morally wrong. Lawbreaking aliens bear moral responsibility for their unlawful actions.
Even desperate circumstances do not justify illegal immigration. Proverbs 6:30-31 says, “People do not despise a thief if he steals to satisfy his appetite when he is hungry, but if he is caught, he will pay sevenfold; he will give all the goods of his house.” The New International Version (NIV) translates the terms as “hunger” and “starving.”
Here, a man steals food to keep from starving. Everyone can understand the desperation that led to his lawbreaking. But despite his sympathetic circumstances, the fact remains that he stole. He took what belonged to someone else. Caught for stealing, he now faces punishment. He has to make restitution, even to the point of his own bankruptcy.
Could we not make an exception for a starving man? The private owner can; civil government cannot. The larger principles in this example involve his willfully breaking God’s commandment against stealing. The man in this proverb could have looked for other, lawful options to satisfy his need. He could have asked people for bread. He could have prayed and asked God to supply his need. Even this desperate man was not at liberty to take matters into his own hands with unlawful acts. Scripture does not leave him free to become a law unto himself...
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Even this understandable, but lawless, act wars against the peace of society. Civil government exists to preserve the peace. Were the government not to hold lawbreakers accountable, that laxity would send the wrong message to others who might not be in quite as dire circumstances. The forgiven lawbreaker might take the government’s mercy as lack of will to enforce its laws. In other words, the actions here of both the government and the lawbreaker have consequences for the rest of society.
Obeying a nation’s immigration laws (this applies to employers, as well as aliens) is a practical application of the two paramount commandments, loving God and one’s neighbor (e.g., Matt. 22:37-40, Mark 12:29-31). It also follows Christ’s directive to “render unto Caesar” matters in the temporal government’s jurisdiction (Mark 12:17; Luke 20:25). Such obedience shows one’s trust in God’s promised provision and faith in His ability to meet one’s needs. Jesus taught such contentment and trust in God in the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 6:25-34; 7:9-11) and elsewhere (Matt. 19:29-30; Luke 12:22-34).
Almost no illegal aliens to the United States are fleeing starvation or physical danger. A Pew study found that most illegal aliens quit a job in their home country in order to break U.S. immigration laws merely to make more money here.13 Thus, illegal immigration is at its core principally a matter of greed and envy on aliens’ part.
Those illegal aliens and those purported Christians who defend their illegality, advocate mass amnesty, and argue against the lawful enforcement of U.S. immigration laws particularly veer far from what would seem a more sound, biblical position. Illegal aliens who claim to be Christians especially would do well to own up to their responsibility under God to be content in their home nation.
Instructive are such passages as I Timothy 6:6-10; “Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment,” verse 6 reads. Hebrews 12:1-13 notes how the difficulties each person faces serve a purpose; for the believer, that purpose is conforming one’s character to Christ’s. “It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons” (v. 7). James 1:2-18 expands on this theme: “Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness” (v. 2-3). So too states James 5:7-11.
Foreign lawbreakers’ envy toward Americans’ material and political blessings may bring upon themselves eternal consequences: “It is through this craving [love of money] that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs” (I Tim. 6:10b). Violating immigration laws, just as violating other civil laws, manifests one’s failure to trust God to meet His people’s needs. Illegal aliens and their activists must ask themselves what the cost of such sin is worth to their souls. “For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his life?” Jesus asks in Mark 8:36. The NIV translates the word as “soul” instead of “life.”
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The question each of those vocal advocates of illegal immigrants and those who have perpetrated this offense must face up to is where their true love lies. I John 2:15-17 warns believers of exactly this: “Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him” (v. 15). “World” here refers to enticing things that become objects of desire, including material, sensual, and prideful things. The point is that someone has put temporal treasures ahead of loving God. Those misplaced treasures may include breaking civil laws regulating immigration in a nation’s interest in order to make more money, accumulate more material goods, and live outside the bounds of laws adopted by God’s agents of justice within a certain nation.
Similarly, apologists for immigration law-breaking and mass amnesty tread on hazardous ground, because their words blur moral lines that are brighter than they admit. But their tactics fall under sobering light from passages such as Isaiah 5:20-21: “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight.”
Thus, breaking immigration laws flouts God’s provision for each person’s well-being, because civil authorities made those laws and, as seen earlier, those authorities act under God’s delegated authority. “But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler,” I Peter 4:15 reads. In context, this passage means Christians should only suffer in righteousness for the cause of Christ, not as those who disobey civil laws that should be accorded with. Except in the rarest of instances, disobedience of duly adopted laws, therefore, dishonors God; it displays hatred toward one’s neighbor. I John 5:20 says, “. . . [F]or he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.” In the context of members of nations, one’s neighbors are those people who share one’s citizenship, patriotic allegiance, and sacred duty to the body politic....
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Conclusion
We may fairly conclude that it displays questionable judgment to rigidly construct an immigration policy for 21st century America based on a handful of Scripture passages taken out of context or from particular instances of migration spanning centuries, vastly different nations and kingdoms, wholly different circumstances, etc. found in Scripture. Rather, carefully discerning applicable principles better fits the situation.
Further, obeying civil laws is the normative, biblical imperative for Christians, as discussed above. National sovereignty is part of the authority God has delegated to civil authorities. Whatever the immigration laws of a particular nation, determining the policies of how many immigrants to admit and the terms and conditions applying to immigrants are the prerogative of the national body. Each society may set or change its nation’s immigration laws. Those decisions rest within the society, and outsiders have no legitimate voice in that exercise of national sovereignty.
The Reformer and statesman John Calvin wrote of the sovereignty of the state. The duty of its lawful authorities is to dictate the course of justice and the sword. This extends to individuals crossing sovereign borders:
If they [civil authorities] ought to be the guardians and defenders of the laws, they should also overthrow the efforts of all whose offenses corrupt the disciplines of the laws. . . . For it makes no difference whether it be a king or the lowest of the common folk who invades a foreign country in which he has no right, and harries it as an enemy. All such must equally be considered as robbers and punished accordingly.14
Though varying in manner in different jurisdictions, Calvin noted that civil laws have the same general end in mind, including such offenses as murder, theft, and false witness. “But they [states] do not agree on the manner of punishment. Nor is this either necessary or expedient. There is a country which, unless it deals cruelly with murderers by way of horrible examples, must immediately perish from slaughters and robberies. There is a century which demands that the harshness of penalties be increased. There is a nation inclined to a particular vice, unless it be most sharply repressed.”15 In other words, different places rightfully may craft laws that deal with their unique circumstances of time, place, and character. This is a matter of the sovereignty delegated by Heaven.
The immigration laws of the United States have been adopted through lawful, legitimate, democratic processes. None of us may agree with every policy represented in the laws on the books, and many of us might advocate certain changes in U.S. immigration law. But this nation is blessed with a republican process for making laws. There is a just and fair way, through the political process, to modify statutes. Thus, the will of the Congress, as manifested in U.S. laws, represents the collective wisdom of the people’s representatives, and the will of the American people as a whole as it informed lawmakers’ decisions throughout the political process. This is how “the consent of the governed,” a solemn principle in American life, operates — as messy and unsatisfying as that at times may be.
As for mass amnesty, by legalizing millions of illegal immigrants, government does not show mercy. Rather, it obligates its citizens to bear the injustices aliens have committed against the body politic, as discussed earlier. This fact stands all the clearer in light of Calvin’s point above...
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An instructive understanding of the temporal allegiances of each person comes from Francis Scott Key, a lawyer and the author of “The Star Spangled Banner.” A Christian himself, Key explains how believers appropriately, biblically fulfill their calling as citizens of both the City of God and the City of Man.
. . . Finding himself associated with numberless fellow-creatures, “framed with like miracle, the work of God,” he has been solicitous to learn his relation to them. He is told that they are his brethern, that he is to love them, and that it is to be his business to fill up the short measure of his life by doing good to them. Engaged in this work, he has perceived himself peculiarly connected with some, who are brought nearer to him, and therefore more within the reach of his beneficence. He has observed that he is a member of a particular social community, governed by the same laws, exercising the same privileges, and bound to the same duties. His obligations therefore to this community, are more obvious and distinct. His own country, to which he is immediately responsible, by whose institutions he has been cherished and protected, has therefore a peculiar claim upon him (emphasis added).16
Today, Americans find immigration policy causing their nation to suffer unnecessary consequences. Legal immigration is four times the historic average. Legal and illegal immigration are interrelated through distant relative (chain migration) visa categories, source countries, and enabled by the ease of modern travel and communication.17 The failure to require adequate educational, literacy, skills, and other qualities in prospective immigrants results in the significant subsidization of immigrants by American taxpayers.
The adverse effect of immigration today on the economic well-being of our most vulnerable fellow Americans, particularly blacks and those with a high school education or less, results in economic injustices that advantage the foreign worker over the American in the American’s own nation. Mass immigration, exacerbated by large-scale illegal immigration, distorts the U.S. labor market and drastically inhibits the ability of the market to regulate itself into the “virtuous circle” that makes for a “win-win” situation for both labor and business owners. And both a criminal and a national security threat exist as a result of overly liberal immigration policies and lax enforcement of the laws on the books.
Therefore, it is time for Americans, particularly those who are Christians, to “be wise as serpents and innocent as doves” (Matt. 10:16) about this country’s immigration policies at the start of the 21st century....
http://www.cis.org/ImmigrationBible
SV,
lol, It gets awfull cold around here during the winter to ditch clothing all together. I think I would rather face the punishment for not having a chip, than I would frost bite on my unmentionables.
Dear 'NOT' -
Enough with the 'encores' . . . it's time to get off the stage. Your 15 minutes of fame are now up.
Dear SV:
Who KNEW you were so funny?
Love,
"A Fan"
Anon 7:23,
I am working on getting my next piece up. It will contain a lot of information for exploring, and I already have some extra pieces set aside that will be posted in the comments section as addendums. As they will add knowledge about subjects discussed in this piece, but don't fit easily within the article itself. This article will cover this administrations role in both microcredit and the new monetary system and the RFID/technocratic end. It will cover information both from before the election of 2008 and post, which shows a very uniform movement by the members.
Thanks for sharing the article, you could add Walmart, IBM, Calvin Klein, Toyota, and a host of others to the list. As far as military application, the DOD is currently going through a top down transition to newer generations of this technology. They are consolidating different systems to operate under a larger umbrella. A simple search of DOD, Army, Navy, Marines, sites for EPC Global will produce enough artcles to keep you reading for some time. EPC Global is the primary military supplier of RFID technology, EPC global is a division of GS1. You can also find where the military has used tags from Positive ID/Verichip/ whatever they are calling themselves this week.
Dear SV:
Who KNEW you were so unholy?
Love,
"A Fan"
Hi Susanna,
Thanks for the contributions and perspective. Bottom line for me on this issue is NO MICROCHIPPING! I am afraid that those will use anti-immigrant hysteria to make same seem a little less threatening.
Constance
Another excellent argument on the no microchipping for immigrant argument is this:
IT WOULD ENCOURAGE, NOT DISCOURAGE A CRIMINALIZED IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY
for this reason:
THE GOD FEARING FOLKS WOULD NEVER TAKE THE MARK, THOSE NOT CARING WOULD!
Constance
Dear Constance,
You are absolutely right about that.
The proposal by Pat Bertroche to implant forcefully microchips into so-called "illegal immigrants" is disgusting. Especially disturbing is the statement "I can microchip my dog so I can find it. Why can’t I microchip an illegal?". It reveals a racist attitude of dehumanising such persons, comparing them with animals. It appears some politicians would consider you human only if they can get a vote from you.
In general, there seems to be a pattern of gradual conditioning for introduction of mandatory implantation of microchips for EVERYONE: first, pets -- under the noble pretext "to find them if they get lost"; second: microchips for elderly Alzheimer patients and children, under the noble pretext "to protect our loved ones if they get lost in the forest"; third, so-called "illegal immigrants" (those who would say "they broke the law" miss the point -- the problem here is treating humans as non/sub-humans, branding them as cattle, which is unacceptable) and possibly convicts -- with the noble pretext "to keep our country safe" and "to protect American jobs", next it will be to "keep track of our medical information and provide it in case of an accident to emergency/rescue personnel" etc.
I hope Iowans will have enough common sense and decency not to vote for such an odious character as Pat Bertroche -- such "conservatives" are not less destructive for the United States of America than left-wing "liberals".
Anti-immigration hysteria is reminiscent of anti-Jewish hysteria in Nazi Germany -- both cases feature politicians instigating and taking advantage of popular discontent with economic situation, and scapegoating a particular group (ethnic or other) of society.
njcr807
http://njcr807.livejournal.com/
I agree, the illegals and chips are conditioning tools. Even if it does not become reality it opens the door for discussion and propaganda, there by softening the edges. The same could be said for health applications, or applications pertaining to children. The final reasoning will be equal sharing of resources. The entire system has been built around this reason. It fits hand in glove with the New Age message, and has been openly stated as the message of the false teacher. Is it any suprise that the new monetary system encompasses the very same principles? Is it any suprise that the reasoning for all of our current woes is because people did not follow these basic principles? The propaganda and conditioning tools are all around us. What should be being blamed on a destructive effort by a handfull of people and groups is being blamed on the greed of entire nations. Even the illegal immigration debate can be twisted to fit this logic, and in fact in many cases it is. The false prophets trumpeting the restoration of America are encompassing these principles as well and many are being taken in by them. This in itself is very troubling to me.
Hi Constance,
On the NO MICROCHIPPING rule, I am in total agreement.
JD,
You are right. Both sides of the aisle are exploiting the illegal immigration issue for the sake of political gain.
Let's not forget about old Tommy Thompson and his VeriChip legacy!
"Dear 'NOT' -
Enough with the 'encores' . . . it's time to get off the stage. Your 15 minutes of fame are now up."
SHUT UP!
Dear Anony 11:18,
LOL, holy I am not; just redeemed!
;)
By His Grace,
-SV
I think 'NOT' just told himself to 'shut up' . . .
LOL
To the lovely SV:
We need both your grace AND your humor on this blog.
SV
TEARS: Please read
1 Peter 1:16
Leviticus 20:7
http://www.carm.org/christianity/sermons/1-peter-113-21-living-god-father
1 Peter 1: 13 - 21
"Therefore, gird your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, AYou shall be holy, for I am holy." 17 And if you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each man's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay upon earth; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. 20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you 21 who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God."
Not Rumpelstilskin,
It's obvious that you did a search on my name. I didn't bring my views on NWV to this blog for personal reasons. There is much more information available relating to NWV than in that response from one of the writers there, a response that is extremely slanted. There was a major effort on the part of NWV to discredit me at the time. It was an attack on me because my information couldn't be discredited.
That's all you need to know.
Dorothy
I am from Southern California and I am not anti-immigration at all. I am anti-ILLEGAL immigration though!
I lived in Canada for about two and a half years and you had better bet that I had my papers in order! It's the same no matter where you go! If you try to go to ANY country illegally there will be big problems! Why should the United States be any different??
The ILLEGAL immigration issue is OUT OF HAND. It needs to be dealt with. Not with retaliation but with stricter laws that are FOLLOWED THROUGH ON. I think that it is wrong as a Christian to personally turn away someone from my life or home due to immigration status but as a nation we need laws that are enforced.
Only one is worthy. Only one is holy.
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Anon. 2:10,
Then you must not be really reading what is being said here. Laws and the enforcement of those laws regarding illegal immigration is not what's in question. It is microchiping these same illegal immigrants like dogs that's in question. If you think that's an okay thing to do then--YIKES!
JD,
You are absolutely right. And we see and hear this message coming from people like Raj Patel. The messages are out there. According to Uncle Benny this is what Maitreya is talking about. (No I'm not saying that Raj Patel is Maitreya.)
Do you really believe what’s going on in Az. has to do with illegal immigrants? Several states (Az. ,Tx. ,Ga. ,Sc. ,Wy. ) have leaders who understand what will happen if States continue to let the Federal government interfere where they don’t belong. This (immigrant problem) is a last ditch effort by States to force an issue (this happened to be one they knew would blow up) with the Feds to bring to light the fact that the Federal Government wants complete control inside the States.
Of Course this will fail!!! The only resolution now is to open the boarders, unify the States with Mexico and Canada. We have known this for the past 50 years. That’s not the point. The Feds’ will have to interfere in this very political and Media driven event. When the Feds’ stick their hand in, then the States will have one last chance to publicly show the fact that their Statehood, State sovereignty, and everything else that makes us a "United States" is on the verge of being lost forever. You all talk about the Big Picture but continue to focus on the pieces that don’t matter.
And JD
You posted “the clothing they are wearing will still contain a RFID tag, any product they may be carrying will still be chipped, any thing they interact with will be capable of identifying those individual things. So now a reader has a pair of pants, a shirt, shoes, socks and wallet that it recognizes without a body wearing them.”
Maybe not word for word for my email but I am HAPPY that at least something I said sank in. Now extrapolate ‘your posted thought’ out and you will see that we are already apart of the system, so this can’t be “The Mark” because we were never given an ultimatum for using it. As I said in my email, it’s already here, you are already chiped, you have a history file that would surprise even you. To have avoided all this you would have to go back 30 years and remove yourself from the system then. Your SS# is a main index key, so is your State ID (drivers license or ID) then it goes to state and federal tax records and then to credit history. The only ones still “SAFE” are the poor/ under privileged and under the radar.
Only one is worthy. Only one is holy.
How right, and yet we are called to be Christlike and abide in him. For it is remaining in His Grace that we remain holy and separate from former things. You must be born again.
That is why I'll listen to the words that Peter has written down by guidance of the Holy Spirit, and that are also commanded of us in Leviticus.
Please reflect on the post, 12:28PM.
JD,
When do you sleep, my friend?
I guess a "youngster" such as you has lots and lots more energy than us "older youngsters"!
Your fortysomething fan
David,
Revelation 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And David please remember,
Revelation 22:17-19
17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Not Rumpelstiltskin,
The article you posted is a very good example of Alinsky tactics being used against one of the most tenacious fighters against the New Age Movement.
Although I suspect your motives in "sharing" this so-called "dirt" on Dorothy Margraf were far from benign, I am glad you did, because it serves to remind us all of the importance of supporting individuals like JD and Dorothy from the malicious attacks that inevitably plauge those who bravely stand up and expose WICKENESS IN HIGH PLACES.
Thank you, Dorothy,
Thank you, Susanna,
Thank you, JD.
The Tooth Fairy
Anon 3:01PM,
Is that the 42 year old woman, who posted for the first time in two years, or someone pretending to be her? No. I'm sure it is just someone pretending to be her; or even more strangely, someone pretending to be Rob or Jenny, after such things were said about them both by the woman in question.
So sad.
3:15
I am the "fortysomething" poster.
My post was a lighthearted teasing of JD for all the energy he puts into his research, and a poke at Constance for saying 42 was "young."
It had nothing to do with Rob (yawn) or Jenny.
I fear you have too much time on your hands, sir.
Fortysomething
Isaiah 5:19-21 (King James Version)
19That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
Anon 2:38,
You are correct that the system is all around us, but are incorrect that people are a part of it. THAT is the final cog. The system can exist without anyone swearing allegiance to it, but one can not be chipped personally without this being the case. To be chipped as a person will be to state you agree with and support the sustainable development, Holism, pantheistic agenda. It will be to agree that all things are part of the greater whole, that all things are a part of the world conciousness, that all belief systems are equal and subjective to the needs of the planetary whole. Have you forgotten that Revelation states that the beasts will be among us BEFORE the mark is forced upon us?
As far as the poor being safe, they have been the guinea pigs for this system. First in third world nations and now it is begining here in the US. So much so, that these nations are being coersed to adopt RFID infrastructures to become complient with GS1, in exchange for the setting up of microcredit institutions as opposed to traditional forms of aid. The microcreditors in turn are setting up cashless systems, where if one does business via RFID they are promoted to a higher standing and considered Loyal Citizens in the sustainable structures.
Chipping has not been forced yet, but there is certainly a desire by the US and EU to do so. Go take a look at www.fidis.net and what they say about smart cards versus implantable chips or read the documents on the Transatlantic Traceability Infrastructure Project(TTIP) a US and EU joint initiative. Keep in mind these are parts of the same arms of the European Commision and the US State Department working toward economic integration globally. The same arms pushing the Transatlantic Economic Council, the same arms pushing Sustainable Development in the third world, the same arms supporting and implementing GS1 standards, which is a project of the United nations with a stated goal of microchipping everything and everyone, all in the name of Holism and Sustainable Development.
Maybe you should actually read the material I have been presenting, then take into consideration that I did not go into this work with a preconceived notion about what I was looking at. In fact when I started it was with a completely different goal in mind. Maybe you should take into consideration that I spent a great deal of time in prayer about this before I ever presented my first piece to anyone, or that the information was vetted thoroughly by numerous people before it was ever set out for public consumption. Or maybe you should take into consideration that I have been carefull not to say what I believed this may be. Only pointing out that a cashless society is being built with a form of tagging people involved, under the guise of a FALSE RELIGION with the stated purpose of a unified world. If you still don't agree or see why people should be warned, that is not for me to change.
Matthew 10:37-39 (King James Version)
37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
JD, granted you were speaking against someone who was unrelenting in their aims at Dorothy, however you wrote,
"...unlike some she does not try to convert others."
I found this worrying.
Matthew 10:32-34 (King James Version)
32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
and
Jude 1:2-4 (King James Version)
2Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Fortysomething,
I would not have thought that with only a decade between us that my energy level would be THAT much more.lol Especially with some of my more taxing physical issues. In all honesty though, in the case of my articles, I have a lot of help on the research end thanks to Susanna. I also have several others on my email list to bounce things off of and who do likewise with me. Much of what is presented here or at my blog is only a fraction of what I may see or work on, so I only post what is relevant or feel needs to be seen by the larger group. I have often suggested that anyone who wanted to seriously dig into a issue should consider working with a partner as it completely changes what can be accomplished by focusing the work and having an extra set of eyes to vett the info.
As for your question when do I sleep? Whenever I can! lol Thanks for the light hearted appreciation.
Dorothy,
"I offered some criticism to you Jenny. You didn't have to take it. Your words are very conciliatory, and I'm sure you would be a wonderful neighbor. What you don't seem to realize is that Rob has libeled me and is so arrogant that that he expects his forgiveness of me is somehow important to me. If someone deliberately runs over another person and then says they forgive them for stepping in front of the car, does it make sense to you that this is a normal course of events? It really is blaming the victim. At some point you should stop straddling the fence, if only privately to say to yourself what you consider right from what you consider wrong. If you do that you can start thinking why you have come to certain positions and where those positions lead you."
Your own words condemn you, I do not.
Now. All.
Ezekiel 33:5-9 (King James Version)
5He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
6But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
7So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.
8When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
9Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
JD
I have read the reasearch on your blog regarding the chipping. it is very informative and I have shared it with others. Regarding your last post when you mention the FALSE RELIGION, I would like to hear YOUR opinion or speculation as to what that will be or how it will come about.
The current thread is about chipping, which may possibly lead to the mark, which involves the beast, which involves the false religion. I have not been here very long and would really like to hear your thoughts on the matter.
And do not hold back for fear of offending anyone, this is really important.
Anon 3:48,
I think you miss understood my meaning, as it was not that we should not try to reach out to others. There are and have been some here that in every communication they have with Dorothy they attempt to preach to her or tell her how much her life is in error. They have forgotten that while we are to go into the world and proclaim the good news, we are also commanded that when someone does not receive it as such we are to shake off the dust and move on. Dorothy knows what the beliefs are of the posters here, in that regard the news has been shared. If a seed was planted within her, it is not my place to try to MAKE it grow. Only the Lord can do so.
I can however continue to be a good witness by sharing my love and friendship with her, even if not for her, someone else may see such and be impacted by it. By beating someone over the head repeatedly telling them they need to repent you disobey the model set forth on being a witness in the Word, you also risk losing said person because all they see is condemnation coming from you. Dorothy knows what I believe, we have had personal conversations about such, now if it is to be it is for the Lord to accomplish, not me.
On the same end, as a Jew, Dorothy obviously believes that Jesus was not Messiah, but she doesn't beat anyone here over the head with such or try to convince us where we are wrong. I hope this helps you understand my meaning a bit better as it was not that someone should not reach out to her, just that we should follow the example set on doing such.
Update on this story from Iowa...
http://www.whoradio.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=150515&article=7055284
http://tinyurl.com/2byq7vz
~HM
Dear Anony 12:28,
I was being lighthearted on purpose. As a mother raising a significantly disabled son, I learned very quickly that it requires both the grace of God and humor to get through some of the most difficult moments.
If it weren't for prayer, exercise, and humor I would probably be on an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety medication. But, praise be to God, I am not taking either. The decisions that I have to make on his behalf are very challenging at times.
Of course I aspire to be holy as He is Holy.
The humor that I used here was meant to be tasteful, not coarse jesting or filthy in any way, but if you are offended by even such a minor attempt at humor, then I ask your forgiveness.
If I haven't made it clear to others here just how much I love the Lord then I guess I was right on point...I'm redeemed but I am still a work in progress towards holiness as He is Holy.
By His Grace,
-SV
WHO Radio, Des Moines, Iowa, one of my favorite stations. Looks to me like the "good doctor" was trying to cover his posterior. His explanation looks off the wall to me. WHO Radio is a favorite station of mine. I have done interviews with it in the past. Ronald Reagan once worked there in his early career. Jan Mickelson interviewed me at his earlier station in Cincinnati, Ohio -- a surprise debate Benjamin Creme had not expected to have with me. It was a RIOT. Creme didn't enjoy it, but Jan and I did. My sister, Doris, worked there for several years. She was recruited by head hunters who sought her out from her employment at WOWO in Fort Wayne. Thanks for the link!
Actually, I am the woman from London who made a snipe at both Rob and Jenny last night
Quite a few had a go at me afterwards and as I read through the comments I must admit I was shocked to see the impact of how foolish and spiteful I had been. In particular, SV’s attention to the Biblical story of Miriam made me examine my motives.
Jenny, Rob and Dorothy, I really apologise, I’m very sorry.
Just to put the matter at rest, if I can, my comment about age was in response to Constance asking that when we get young, enthusiastic people such as Rob of London and Jenny of Australia that we not immediately excoriate them for not contributing data on the New Age Movement.
It had nothing to do with JD or anyone else.
It appears that some person has decided to use my snipe as a means to cause further antagonism.
I would just like to add that I am not making anonymous comments here and that I would not wish to intentionally upset or provoke anyone.
I won't comment again... but I will read the information.
Lorna
To Lorna:
Thanks much for your words and clarification.
Stay on!
Constance
Amen to JD's last words. Everybody deserves a kind warning -- after that, I don't believe in beating folks over the head with evidence and God sometimes has people placed where they are for strategic reasons. Dorothy has reached MANY in the Jewish community with very courageous presentations of the Hidden Dangers of the New Age Movement to the Jewish community. They probably would not have listened to a non-Jew. At that, many did not listen, BUT MANY DID and Dorothy got through many places the rest of us might not have been able to reach.
BUT, with all that having been said, I still think Dorothy needs to lighten up on Rob -- he apologized and I still think there were prior words that put him over the edge -- we're all capable of getting "over the edge" from time to time.
Constance
5:47 PM
Anon in blue,
In my opinion, the one world religion will be different things to different people, but at it's base will be the same. If you are familiar with New Age at all, you understand that there is not neccesarily a single doctrine that is a base across the varying belief structures, however all do have common principles. For example Holism is one such principle that is common amongst the varying beliefs, though some may not refer to it as such. It would be nearly impossible to get the entire world to convert to a single new religion, so what we have witnessed is new principles being interjected into existing ones, with a end goal being to make people believe that all faiths are at their core the same.
Now you have Interfaith and similar groups pointing out similarities that until these new principles were taught in recent history, people would have dismissed. Now if you add a prophet of such, teaching that all religions were in truth about conciousness and knowledge that we are part of a greater whole and that the old system had twisted them to assert control, you begin to get a clear picture of the world that is emerging. Now picture a false teacher or savior that embodies these very principles and promises to lead the world into a new age of enlightenment.
We have in our world a political structure emerging via Sustainable Development that encompasses all of these things in a political structure. We have mandates through the Alliance of Civilizations pushing for this type of belief structure to be state sponsored. We have false preachers in the Interfaith movement teaching their flocks these principles. We now also have groups like New Apostolic Reformation promoting the same and encompassing patriotic tones in a attempt to reclaim the country for Jesus. The problem being that their Jesus is more like the Ascended Master than the biblical Jesus. It would take a really long time for me to describe or even speculate on how I think the final descent will happen. I will say this, be carefull of those wanting to recapture this nation by any means neccesary, especially if they attempt to wrap it in christianity. As in most of these groups you will find the very principles this blog is dedicated to exposing and a false Jesus is after all still a false prophet or false messiah. I could get a lot deeper including talking specifics about New Age writings pertaining to the ascended masters and their world teacher, but I don't want to take up a ton of room here doing so. There are some pretty good resources linked to on my blog for New Age history and said teachings as well as the governmental history. Feel free to post relative questions on my blog as well, as there I need not worry about over running some one else page, or if comfortable email me.
JD, It's strange but some people must think I live in a cave somewhere in Nevada, that I've never heard of Christianity, don't know any Christians or have never seen a Christian bible. On the other hand, they act as if there is only one book in the world. The message I see has them saying, "I'm brilliant. I like this book and believe it is the best book in the world. If you don't think I'm brilliant, you must be stupid and I'm going to keep quoting from the book until you see how brilliant I am."
That behavior is standard among some religious groups, many of whom aren't Christian, and certain kinds of salesmen who need to believe so strongly in their product in order to sell it.
Many religious followers want to tie everything in the world into some words from the bible. That's how the Oral Law came about in the Jewish community. Law in the community was connected by the rabbi to words found in the Torah. In the Orthodox community there is a prayer for everything. That kind of thing has a long history, so when Christians do it with end times, I just think "OK, that's how you see it. You might be selling it, but I'm not buying it."
In some parts of the Christian community it appears that everyone wants to be their own teacher and interpreter of the words in the bible, whether or not they have any credentials, whether or not they are learned.
As I wrote yesterday, the dangers of the world come from people who don't know their own limitations. Generally they are easy to ignore and I don't have to say anything.
Dorothy
JD
Thanks for the response. Would like to hear more of your thoughts on that sometime.
Anonymous 4:02
How can you be trusted to interpret the bible when you can't even read a simple email and understand what someone is saying.
It's obvious you don't know your own limitations.
Dorothy
No Constance, Rob has not apologized. He arrogantly told me he forgives me. At this point it wouldn't matter if he did. Those thoughts were in his head before he wrote them. They were spit out concisely. They are the words skinheads use. Those were not the words and descriptions used by an ordinary person.
Dorothy
On the Barcelona Process front (European Neighbourhood Policy), just found this:
http://tinyurl.com/yf2dpeh
"The Euro-Mediterranean Partnership, formerly known as the Barcelona Process, was re-launched at the initiative of French President Nicolas Sarkozy, in July 2008, and is now known as the Union of the Mediterranean, or Euromed. It covers the 27 countries of the EU, plus 16 countries in the southern and eastern Mediterranean and adjoining areas, including Turkey, Cyprus and Israel, as well as the Arab Levant, Egypt and North Africa. Altogether, it has a total population of some 750 million.
After much debate and delay in the EU and within the Arab Mediterranean countries, caused largely by Israel’s invasion of Gaza in January 2009 and the financial crisis in Europe and the US, Euromed has assumed a new sense of mission under Spain’s Presidency of the EU, which began in January 2010. A summit of the heads of its 43 member states is now scheduled to take place in Barcelona, in June 2010."
Constance
Dorothy and Rob:
May I have an answer from both of you on the context of the "cult" word addressed to Rob on line by Dorothy. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Constance
Dorothy, correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe this was the paragraph from a "Dorothy" which triggered the initial angry discourse:
""Rob in London, you are joke. You are running a cult type church service in here, lying in the process. Anyone who knows what is going on knows that England (that's the home country of London) is several years ahead of the US in promoting the New Age push. If you had any ability other than killing time, you would be reporting on what is going on in London as well as fighting it there. Try doing that instead of patting yourself on the back by the hour, telling everyone how holy you are."
Dorothy"
Telling some body they are a "joke" and "running a cult service in here" are in my humble opinion INFLAMMATORY.
Constance
http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/csd/csd_csd18.shtml
UN Department for Economic and Social Affairs
Division for Sustainable Development
4th Implementation Cycle
Review Session
May 3 - 14, 2010
This is the type of material JD analyzes to support the patterns he sees growing. He and Suzanne have my respect. He is no ordinary person making educated guesses. We are fortunate that he and Suzanne have taken on this challenge to provide documentation.
If the average conservative says anything about the UN for example, they just say that it's bad and leave it at that.
Dorothy
Constance,
Rob's comment on the thread to me just before I called him a liar was:
Anonymous said...
Dorothy,
You should learn how to treat people, here are some examples you are lacking in:
Patience.
Meekness.
Wisdom.
Love.
Gentleness.
Compassion.
Understanding.
Encouragement.
BY THEIR FRUITS SHALL YE KNOW THEM!
Jenny, we serve God not man, remember that and do not worry nor let Dorothy, (alias anon 10:19 etc?) chase you off this site. Paul was right about you Dorothy, and you need to turn to Jesus Christ and repent.
To the anon poster from earlier,in view of your comments, let me point out there is another child, one that is not of God, be careful you do not fall into that bracket:
Acts 13:9-11 (King James Version)
9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.
10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.
Dear Jenny, please ignore Dorothy, as we are biblically instructed, by implication, to ignore pagans and heathens that refuse to repent and turn to the Father THROUGH THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Dorothy, you defended the Kabala here, which many Jewish people find an abominable practice! You defended Ancient Babylonian Witchcraft. That is what the Kabala is! So Take the 2 by 4 out of your own eye before you ever dare try to take the speck out of somebody elses. HYPOCRITE!
This is my last post. Turn to Jesus Christ Dorothy, for there is Salvation in none other. He came to the House of Israel, He did not say, there is no need to come to the House of Israel because they are already saved, but he said the contrary, and came to Israel first because of the promise made by God to Abraham, you must still be covered by the precious blood of Jesus, otherwise you are no more than a heathen, especially if you are dabbling in Kabalistic witchcraft from where much of NAM teaching comes and you know it! Do not try and play the anti-Semite card with me, Paul has already righty pulled you up on that one. You are a child of the Devil and you need to repent!
Acts 13:9-11 (King James Version)
9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.
10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.
God bless all here and bye,
Rob in London.
5:08 AM
There was an earlier attack on me in another thread to which I didn't respond.
Rob built a following on these threads using emotional cult leader tactics which I later described on the thread.
Dorothy
Just so no one forgets the language Rob is capable of and which I referred to in an earlier comment.
At 2:39 Rob in London wrote:
"Dorothy, you are a slanderer, a false-accuser, a destroyer, a liar, and a bitter control freak filled with rage, with lustful perverted thoughts which in your envy and lack of love you project onto others,and you obey your father the Devil. I will pray for you."
Dorothy
Constance and Dorothy
I understand from this blog you have been friends for many years, we all know friends like this are not found so easily.
Friends make mistakes, friends say things they would like to take back, friends can be stubborn, but friends forgive and move on. The love of a friend is one of the beautiful treasures we find in this life.
Dorothy - I am saddened to see the harsh comments that are so often directed towards you.
All too often I scroll quickly pass such comments as I often think that it's none of my business.
I must stop thinking this way - of course it's my business! I participate here too and shouldn't be turning a blind eye and walking hastily by on the other side of the street.
---
Rob - if in your opinion Dorothy has offended you please forgive her ... seventy times seven if needs be.
~K~
Constance,
:) Yep, WHO is great. I listen to it as much as I can, especially Mickelson and Steve Deace. Deace just finished interviewing Bertroche on his show. The podcast will probably be posted on his website tonight or tomorrow. He posts almost all of his interviews.
~HM
Dorothy,
As usual I completely understand your sentiment here, unfortunately someone will probably try to use this as you saying your anti-christian or some other gross twisting. I made my statement both as a friend supporting another and so that hopefully others may see how even with the best of intentions as Christians we can stray from our own teachings and commandments.
Anonymous in blue,
I would like to be able to continue a two way conversation on the subject as well. It is simply too vast to get into deeply here. As I said, you are more than welcome to continue such a conversation on my blog or in email.
Obama To Wall Street: "I Do Think At A Certain Point You've Made Enough Money"
http://tinyurl.com/28yjvnc
It now appears that part of financial reform will be delegating how much money one can make in financial dealings. Oh what a slippery slope, oh, wait, this isn't a slope, IT'S A CLIFF!
Bill Clinton Sees 'More Immigrants' As A Way To Reduce Deficit
Former President Bill Clinton enthusiastically weighed into the blistering national debate on immigration today with a resounding assertion that America needs more immigrants -- not fewer -- to ensure its long-term fiscal future.
At a symposium on deficit reduction today (see my earlier story), Clinton said that one key to avoiding massive debt is to maintain a good ratio between people paying into the system, and those receiving payouts (through such programs as Social Security.)
That means more jobs and more people working, he said. "Which to me means more immigrants."
Clinton said he supports immigration reform as proposed by President Obama or as supported by Sen. John McCain before he changed his mind.
Clinton spoke glowingly of the immigrant experience in the United States. "We've got somebody from everywhere here, and they do well," he said.
And looking at the overall budget numbers, comparing money in to money out, "I don't think there's any alternative for us but increasing immigration," he said. "I just don't see any palatable way out of this unless that's part of the strategy."
Clinton didn't mention it, but it's not just legal immigrants who contribute to the plus side of the Treasury's balance sheet. In fact, undocumented immigrants are even more lucrative for the government, particularly Social Security. Many undocumented workers have payroll taxes automatically withheld from their wages, but because they use fake numbers, never collect the benefits.
http://tinyurl.com/263rhpg
Now this could get interesting!
EXCLUSIVE: U.N. Elects Iran to Commission on Women's Rights
NEW YORK — Without fanfare, the United Nations this week elected Iran to its Commission on the Status of Women, handing a four-year seat on the influential human rights body to a theocratic state in which stoning is enshrined in law and lashings are required for women judged "immodest."
Just days after Iran abandoned a high-profile bid for a seat on the U.N. Human Rights Council, it began a covert campaign to claim a seat on the Commission on the Status of Women, which is "dedicated exclusively to gender equality and advancement of women," according to its website.
Buried 2,000 words deep in a U.N. press release distributed Wednesday on the filling of "vacancies in subsidiary bodies," was the stark announcement: Iran, along with representatives from 10 other nations, was "elected by acclamation," meaning that no open vote was requested or required by any member states — including the United States.
more at link
http://tinyurl.com/2bb4z4e
JD
I know what you are saying. I've been getting the "You need to be..." comments for about 50 years now. From what I've seen, more people are converted to being followers of Christianity by the behavior of good Christians than are converted by being hit over the head with quotes from the New Testament which is what it feels like at times. They seem to forget that there are more pages teaching Judaism in the bible they use than there are pages teaching Christianity.
I must be an equal opportunity complainer because when I've heard someone Jewish making a negative generalization about Christians, I spoke up.
Dorothy
Constance,
Did you see this? What thoughts can you offer?
Judge questions weight of evidence in Hutaree case
Paul Egan / The Detroit News
Detroit -- A federal judge on Wednesday expressed strong reservations about the weight of the evidence against nine militia members accused of plotting to wage war against the United States.
But a federal prosecutor said the government can't always wait until a plot is carried out to charge those involved and asked the judge to consider how much better things would be if federal agents had been able to arrest Timothy McVeigh before he blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people.
U.S. District Judge Victoria A. Roberts repeatedly pressed prosecutors about what evidence they are pointing to in support of the seditious conspiracy charge that all nine Hutaree militia defendants are facing. The charges were revealed in a grand jury indictment unsealed March 29.
more at link
http://tinyurl.com/267lclr
Dorothy,
I often feel may Christians lose their strongest form of witness, which is their life and how they live it. One makes a much better case for themselves by simply stating who they are, what they believe in, and letting it show in their life than by using the bible like a hammer. Love comes across better in action than in words.
This in from Detroit federal courts:
"
Judge questions weight of evidence in Hutaree case
Paul Egan / The Detroit News
Detroit -- A federal judge on Wednesday expressed strong reservations about the weight of the evidence against nine militia members accused of plotting to wage war against the United States.
But a federal prosecutor said the government can't always wait until a plot is carried out to charge those involved and asked the judge to consider how much better things would be if federal agents had been able to arrest Timothy McVeigh before he blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people.
U.S. District Judge Victoria A. Roberts repeatedly pressed prosecutors about what evidence they are pointing to in support of the seditious conspiracy charge that all nine Hutaree militia defendants are facing. The charges were revealed in a grand jury indictment unsealed March 29."
http://tinyurl.com/267lclr
Constance
Constance,
Well, I guess you did see it! lol
Under financial overhaul, FTC could gain enforcement power over Internet
http://tinyurl.com/362fylg
Think globally--act locally. I remember this use to be a well promoted new age slogan. Thanks to technology, this is even more possible.
http://tinyurl.com/29medt7
"MASSIVEGOOD uses the power of social media to help stop the millions of preventable deaths from HIV/AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis and increase maternal and child health in the developing world.
Social networks have revolutionized how we interact. But can they raise awareness and increase funding for some of the most pressing global health issues in the 21st century?
MASSIVEGOOD does both, by creating a worldwide community based on small individual acts of giving. MASSIVEGOOD lets you make a $2 micro-contribution towards major global health causes every time you buy a plane ticket, reserve a hotel room or rent a car.
Available in the USA since early 2010, MASSIVEGOOD allows travelers to make their trip really meaningful and connect with fellow contributors on this website, a social network for those committed to building a healthier world. To ensure that all travelers can make a difference, leaders in the travel and tourism industry have joined with global health organizations to support MASSIVEGOOD in an impressive private-public coalition.
It’s an easy way to do good and connect with others that are doing the same – just click MASSIVEGOOD"
These are very worthy causes, but it brings back that new age slogan.
Whats up with Obama sending swat teams to the oil platforms in the gulf? Safety inspectors yes but swat teams?
RC
People who can't see the "Hand of G-d" in the fact of Israel in this generation wouldn't have believed the Messiah over two thousand years ago.
"Let them that ears hear."
Interesting Article:
A Van Barroso?
There has been a shift of power in Brussels politics of late. The economic crisis has made it clear that member states want the European Council to be where the EU’s governance decisions are taken.
The shift is to the benefit of EU council president Herman Van Rompuy and to the detriment of European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso. This was starkly underlined by last month’s decision to establish a task force to look into further economic governance, including by means of treaty change, chaired by Van Rompuy.
The European Commission’s legal right of initiative to propose legislation does not change, of course. But member states are grasping at the political initiative for making laws. Van Rompuy is perfectly aware of this. So is Barroso. Look how fast the commission is drawing up its own proposals, due out on 12 May, on strengthening economic co-ordination. Proposals, it is keen to emphasize, that will be sufficient to do what’s needed and will not require a treaty change.
With Van Rompuy and Barroso squaring off, the question of an eventual merging of their roles becomes even more interesting.
UK liberal MEP Andrew Duff, a committed federalist who knows the legal workings of the EU inside out, recently wrote in the Financial Times that if the two men fail to get on, the two posts will be held by “one and the same person” by 2014.
To RC (11:04 PM):
It seems to be all about more and more Government CONTROL over every aspect of our lives, doesn't it?
To JD (8:52 PM)
I agree. Christians can best lead by example. THIS SPEAKS VOLUMES!
Anonymous 6:47 A.M.
That is an interesting article indeed. I wonder if this "shift of power" has anything to do with the following?
SPAIN'S JOBLESS RATE TOPS 20%, ADDS TO DEBT WORRIES
MADRID (AFP) – Spain's jobless rate topped 20 percent in the first quarter, national statistics institute INE said Friday, fueling fears over the country's public finances which have rattled global financial markets.
The number of unemployed jumped by 280,200 to 4.61 million, more than in Germany which has nearly twice Spain's population, for a jobless rate of 20.05 percent. The unemployment rate rose from 18.83 percent in the fourth quarter.
The last time the unemployment rate topped 20 percent in Spain was in the fourth quarter of 1997 when it hit 20.11 percent.
Spain's jobless rate has soared since the global credit crisis hastened the collapse of its labour-intensive construction industry at the end of 2008.
The country has the highest unemployment rate in the 16-nation eurozone and accounts for half the region?s job losses over the last two years, according to the European Union?s statistics office Eurostat.
The rise in unemployment during the first quarter means Spain's socialist government, which has vowed to protect social welfare spending, will face an even bigger bill for jobless benefits as it tries to rein in a public deficit that hit 11.2 percent of Gross Domestic Product last year.
Ratings agency Standard & Poor's cut the country's long-term sovereign credit rating on Wednesday to "AA" from "AA+" amid concerns about the country's growth prospects, sending the euro and global stock markets tumbling on fears Madrid faces similar problems to debt-stricken Greece.
"We now believe that the Spanish economy's shift away from credit-fueled economic growth is likely to result in a more protracted period of sluggish activity than we previously assumed," S&P's credit analyst Marko Mrsnik said.
The Spanish economy, Europe's fifth largest, contracted 0.1 percent in the fourth quarter from the previous three months, even as the entire eurozone, the United States and Japan emerged from recession.
Spain has proved especially vulnerable to the global credit crunch because growth relied heavily on credit-fuelled domestic demand and a property boom boosted by easy access to loans that has collapsed.
French investment bank Natixis estimates that prior to the crisis 30 percent of Spain's working population worked directly or indirectly for the construction industry.
Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said Wednesday that unemployment had likely peaked in the first quarter and would now begin dropping.
In January Zapatero unveiled a 50 billion euro austerity plan intended to bring the public deficit to within a eurozone limit of 3.0 percent by 2013.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp
/20100430/bs_afp/spaineconomy
unemployment_20100430110105
_________________
cont.......
cont....
See also......
EU'S BARROSO SAYS CHINA STILL CONFIDENT IN EURO AS NEGOTIATORS WORK TOWARD GREEK BAILOUT DEAL
April 30, 2010
EU chief says China still has confidence in euro
BEIJING — The European Commission president said Friday that China still has confidence in the euro, despite a plunge in the European currency as negotiators work toward a financial bailout for Greece.
“I don’t think China is lacking confidence in the European Union or the euro,” Jose Manuel Barroso, head of the 27-nation European Union’s governing body, told reporters after meeting with China’s premier and other officials.
Beijing has refrained from commenting publicly on the euro but it keeps an estimated 20 percent of its $2.5 trillion in foreign reserves in assets denominated in euros.
Barroso said Premier Wen Jiabao and other officials did not raise any specific concerns about the currency. But he said, “They are following the issue.”
European negotiators are close to agreement on a bailout for Greece and he expects results “very soon,” he said. “There is no doubt that Greece’s needs will be met in time.”
Barroso said he and Wen had wide-ranging discussions Thursday about global economic imbalances, climate, cooperation in clean energy and other areas.
He said he brought up China’s currency but stressed that he was not trying to pressure Beijing. China’s trading partners want it to loosen controls they say keep its yuan undervalued and give its exporters an unfair advantage. Analysts say Chinese leaders might delay action for fear of being seen as giving in to foreign pressure.
“It makes sense to discuss currency stability and of course the level of the appreciation of the currency of China,” Barroso said. “I think that message was clearly understood and seen clearly as different as what may be perceived as a kind of pressure.”
Barroso said he could not comment on the movement of currencies when asked whether the euro’s weakness due to the debt crisis might prompt Beijing to postpone any action on allowing the yuan to rise.
China has tied the yuan to the dollar since late 2008 to help its exporters compete but is under pressure from Washington and others to loosen its controls. Analysts expect Beijing to allow a gradual rise this year to ease strains on its economy but say that might be postponed due to the European turmoil.
European officials have been assuring markets they were working quickly on approving a bailout for Greece as they try to keep its debt crisis from dragging others into a continent-wide financial meltdown.
Some analysts warn that Greece might have to drop out of the euro. The Greek government says it needs a bailout to pay 8.5 billion euro in bonds due May 19.
“The difficulty that we have been facing now in Greece and also due to the fiscal position in some of our member states are going to be overcome,” Barroso said. “I have no doubts about the solidity of the euro.”
Barroso was due to fly to Shanghai later Friday to attend the opening of the 2010 World Expo and meet with Chinese President Hu Jintao.
Barroso said he avoided canceling or postponing his China trip due to the crisis because Beijing is an important trade and financial partner. He said he was in “constant contact” with EU headquarters in Brussels.
“I think it would be a complete mistake to change my program,” he said. “It would give the wrong signal.”
http://blog.taragana.com/politics
/2010/04/30/eus-barroso-says-
china-still-confident-in-euro-
as-negotiators-work-toward-
greek-bailout-deal-32140/
cont......
This is on Drudge this a.m. I didn't see it posted here earlier- maybe I missed it.
http://thehill.com/homenews/
senate/95235-democrats-
spark-alarm-with-call-for
-national-id-card
Dems spark alarm with call for national ID card
This is off topic, but I think it is important to watch everything, this article is 5 months old. Information on this man is scarce and he has been around for years. I think he bears watching.
Secretary-General behind the scenes at the EU
The EU has been given a new leading duo in Herman Van Rompuy and Catherine Ashton. But in the shadow of the top job appointments another person was also appointed to take care of the EU machinery behind the scenes. His name is Pierre de Boissieu and he is something of an unknown quantity outside the corridors of Brussels.
Pierre de Boissieu is the new Secretary-General of the Council Secretariat. It is more of a civil servant post, which may explain why it was not given as many column inches as the two top posts. But the Secretary-General is really the person oiling the EU machinery behind the EU’s media personalities.
Responsible for 3 500 employees
The job description states that the Secretary-General shall lead the Council Secretariat, which supports the EU Council of Ministers. The Council consists of the governments of the individual Member States and the Presidency rotates between them every six months. Until now, the Council Secretariat has focused on assisting the country holding the Presidency, but now it will also give support to the new permanent President of the European Council and to some degree the EU’s High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy.
In practice, the post is best described as ‘the spider in the web’. The Secretary-General must keep track of all actors and act as an adviser, coordinator and administrator all at the same time. But despite its central role, the post is described in just one sentence in the Treaty of Lisbon. It says that “the Council shall be assisted by a General Secretariat under the responsibility of a Secretary-General appointed by the Council”. On 1 December, Mr de Boissieu will take up his post and will then become responsible for the Council Secretariat’s 3 500 employees.
Separating the roles
But let us stop and rewind the tape. The post of Secretary-General has been in existence since the establishment of the EU’s Council of Ministers as an institution. Up until 1999, that is. That was when the Treaty of Amsterdam entered into force, the post of High Representative was established and the Member States decided to place the High Representative in the Council. With this, that person was also given the title of Secretary-General and was able to add the not entirely simple abbreviation SG/HR (Secretary-General/High Representative) to his or her CV. The change in job description for the post of Secretary-General pushed its former duties down to the post of Deputy Secretary-General.
This is the post that has been held by Pierre de Boissieu for the past ten years, so when he goes to work next week, he will be treading on familiar office ground. The duties are not unlike his previous duties. As Deputy Secretary-General he was already responsible for more or less the entire Secretary-General portfolio and the Council Secretariat, since the High Representative Javier Solana has been busy with the EU’s foreign affairs and security policy. With the Treaty of Lisbon, the two roles are now separated.
My last post, I meant to say he bears watching if, you can even find anything on him or what he is up to, which is not easy.
Anonymous 6:47 A.M.
P.S.
Barroso's native Portugal is part of the economically challenged ( vis a vis its creditworthiness) "eurozone".
George Soros has been in this mix all along with his "Chicken Little" rants encouraging the bailout of Greece.
It is my guess that Germany's reluctance to sanction the bailout of Greece without strict conditions may be for the very reason that Soros is demanding it.
http://forex.fxdd.com/78353/
forex-news/soros-senses-risk-to-euro
Also...
SOROS TELLS EU TO STEP UP SUPPORT FOR EASTERN STATES
http://euobserver.com/9/28983
_______________________
My question is how much do George Soros and his hedge fund pals stand to profit from the "life and hard times" of the euro???
Speaking of "eastern states", just recently, a Hungarian court confirmed that New York-based Soros Fund Management LLC will have to pay a fine of 489 million forints ($2.5 million) for unlawful trades in shares of OTP Bank OTPB.BU.
http://www.reuters.com/article/
idUSTRE63M1NK20100423
Soros is still appealing another conviction and fine of more than $2million by the French government for insider trading.
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2006/06/
15/france-upholds-george-soross
-conviction/tab/article/
The price of gold is going up. Soros claims he has been buying gold, but he could be "selling short" on gold the way he did with sterling when he "broke the bank of England."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday
SOROS:THE ULTIMATE ASSET BUBBLE IS GOLD
http://www.businessinsider.com/
soros-the-ultimate-asset-bubble
-is-gold-2010-1
By the way, Soros is also heavily invested in Goldman Sachs.
Hmmmmmmm.
Anonymous 10:17/10:29 A.M. and All
PIERRE DE BOISSEAU, A LEGEND IN BRUSSELS
November 23, 2009
Pierre de Boissieu – named secretary-general of the EU Council of Ministers - is much more than a key player in European integration. He is almost a legend for a whole generation of diplomats, Eurocrats and journalists, who frequented the corridors of the EU from the mid-1970s to the end of the last decade.
Arriving in Brussels in 1978 to serve in the cabinet of Commission Vice-President François-Xavier Ortoli, the 35-year-old ‘énarque’ (graduate of the ENA, which trains senior civil servants) wasted no time getting his bearings with respect to his colleagues, his interlocutors and some would even say his boss. He was no stranger to the success of the two initiatives that paved the way to the euro: the creation of the European Monetary System and of the European Currency Unit, the ECU.
This first part of his EU career in Brussels came to an end in 1984, but de Boissieu continued in a lower profile for five years in Paris, at the Directorate for Economic Affairs at the Quai d’Orsay. In 1993, he was named permanent representative of France to the EU institutions.
Breaking longevity records both at the head of this embassy and among his European counterparts, de Boissieu wielded major influence, until 1999, in the Council’s bodies: in the Committee of Permanent Representatives (Coreper), ministerial meetings and even at European Councils. Making every effort to steer clear of any political label, he was adviser to François Mitterrand and Jacques Chirac, and both heeded his opinions.
His ideas, his battles and his successes are also found in numerous important decisions, including the EU’s successive treaties. Some remember his standoffs with Jacques Delors’ teams over the pillar structure of the Maastricht Treaty. De Boissieu never became an activist for European federalism. His intelligence, his experience in Germany at the start of his diplomatic career and his experience with complex negotiations in Brussels made of him what is customarily called a ‘European of reason’. His convictions and his actions quickly earned him the admiration of some - and the antipathy of others.
Named deputy secretary-general of the Council in September 1999, de Boissieu suddenly moved out of the light into the shadow, from extreme mediatisation to deliberate anonymity. The discretion of his new role, however, did not equate with powerlessness. As Secretary-General Javier Solana focused on his responsibilities as high representative for the CFSP, de Boissieu became the real head of the institution. His knowledge of the issues, of the institutional machinery and of the political figures of the EU member states made him a key figure. And that is assuredly the essential reason that led the European Council to reappoint him to this office, this time with the title of secretary-general, until his retirement, set for June 2011.
http://www.europolitics.info/
institutions/pierre-de-boissieu
-a-legend-in-brussels-art255293
-37.html
Here is an interesting editorial from The Economist that mentions Pierre de Boissieu.
EURO-FEDERALISTS WHO PLACE THEIR FAITH IN NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS
Mar 13th 2010, 16:35 by Charlemagne
WRITING a column offers an unusual degree of autonomy for a newspaper reporter: broadly, you get to set down in print exactly what you think. Once it is published, however, all control stops: readers will read a column as they wish.
In January, I wrote a column about Spain that I thought was rather pro-Spanish. Spain is one of my favourite countries and has been a great EU success story—a model for the grand bargain of EU enlargement: join the union, open your markets to competition from more developed old member states, and use EU funds to catch up. The column touched on one of my core beliefs (that people's views of the EU are about 90% biography and 10% rationality), in a bid to explain why the Spanish are so pro-European. It regretted that Spain's current economic woes are a major blow to the EU's convergence model of enlargement.
Then the piece came out. Short of burning a Spanish flag while dancing atop the Rock of Gibraltar, it turned out I could not have caused more offence. Perhaps a dozen Spanish newspaper articles denounced the column, with particular opprobrium being aimed at a single sentence, in which I wrote: "When Spain joined the block, it was a poor, rural, rather protectionist place". On reflection, and several buckets of opprobrium later, I concede I wish I had added the word "relatively" to the front of that second clause.
This week, I have written a column about the new President of the European Council, Herman Van Rompuy, and I spent Friday fielding text messages and comments from various diplomats and Brussels types about how amazingly flattering and positive I had been. There you go. I thought the piece was neutral, reporting that HVR's( Hermann Van Rompuy's) star is rising in Brussels, after early doubts, but that there is also a lot of high-level grumbling that he is something of a Franco-German stooge, who is ignoring the smaller countries.
More broadly, I set out what I felt was the paradox of Mr Van Rompuy. As a Belgian, he comes from the only country (ok, plus Luxembourg) in the EU where mainstream politicians openly advocate deep Euro-federalism, on the lines of a United States of Europe. But at the same time, he is deeply pragmatic about the need to bring all 27 EU leaders along with any new project of integration, and deeply respectful of the democratic legitimacy of elected national governments. That marks him out from the usual Euro-crowd in Brussels. From members of the European Parliament to Brussels think-tankers and a good chunk of the permanent Brussels press pack, I live and work among people who see national governments as a problem, and think that seeking consensus among all 27 member countries is madness. The Brussels bubble yearns for the EU institutions to lay down the law to national leaders, and drive through integration with lots of majority voting, and by splitting this ghastly new enlarged EU into a hard core of Euro-enthusiast states and horrid laggards.
Such die-hards never really wanted the job of President of the European Council to exist. In their dream, the European Commission, a supranational body, would become the executive branch of a central EU government, with the European Parliament as the lower house of the legislative branch, and national governments reduced to the role of an upper house, amending and revising EU laws. To them, the European Council was a creation of French Gaullists, and was an attempt to impose the rival model of intergovernmentalism on the union, to the detriment of the "community method".
Back in the 1970s, Belgium originally opposed the idea of holding regular meetings of the European Council (though once it seemed to be inevitable, allowed itself to be bought off with a guarantee that most summits would take place in Brussels).
cont...
cont...
And now we have ended up with a Belgian whose deepest sympathies may well lie with the community method at the head of the European Council, just at the moment that this most intergovernmental of bodies has become an EU institution in its own right. And Mr Van Rompuy is working hand in hand with a feline and brilliant believer in the continued relevance of the nation state and the unique role played by heads of state and government: the French diplomat Pierre de Boissieu, who has become secretary-general of the Council of the European Union. Mr Van Rompuy is, of course, only bowing to reality: the big story of the last decade or so in EU politics has been the rise and rise of national leaders as the ultimate power-brokers in Europe. Officials close to Mr Van Rompuy say he certainly comes from the Belgian federalist tradition, though they note that he was never an activist, or a pioneer in his country's European movement. And now to promote deeper EU integration, he has thrown his lot in with the national leaders who make up the membership of the European Council.
Over the road, meanwhile, the European Commission is run by José Manuel Barroso, a former Portuguese prime minister who—while certainly very pro-European—is a firm believer in the democratic legitimacy enjoyed by elected national governments. Mr Barroso is no Jacques Delors, bombarding national leaders with ambitious plans for the EU to take sweeping new powers, in the hopes of obtaining a fraction of what he is asking for. That is usually held against Mr Barroso in Brussels, where he is widely disliked for his policy of only putting forward new regulations and laws that he thinks have support in national capitals. I happen to think that the Delors-nostalgics are wrong: if Mr Delors or someone like their hero were to seek re-election as Commission president nowadays, he would be vetoed from all sides.
So in short, in the new constellation of EU jobs, we have ended up with a federalist in charge of the most intergovernmental bit of the union, and an intergovernmentalist in charge of the federalist bit of the machine.
Do I think that is a good or a bad thing? Time will tell. But it is at least a profound relief for me that both Mr Barroso and Mr Van Rompuy appear to believe that you cannot build Europe against its nation states.
For all their flaws, I do believe that national governments enjoy more legitimacy than any bit of the EU machine, if only because voters know more or less who they are voting for at national ballots, and do not have a clue who runs Europe in their name. That infuriates about half the Brussels press pack, most MEPs and a lot of the think tankers who throng this town, who want much deeper political union now. They should get out more.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/
charlemagne/2010/
03/herman_van_rompuy_pragmatist
Looks like our federal government is not the only government attempting to "govern" against the will of the people.
Susanna,
Thanks for that last article, I have seen it before, but I don't think many others have, or even know who he is. I find it strange that most info on him is what he has already done, not usually things he is currently involved in.
Don't you?
I most leery of someone with this much power, who mingles with the movers and shakers of the EU, but continues to remain virtually anonymous.
Angela Merkel is hoping to have Axel Weber succeed Pierre de Boissieu when Boissieu retires in 2011.
WHITE SMOKE
...So the Swedish EU presidency delivered with surprising speed. Herman van Rompuy gets the presidency of the European Council and Baroness (Catherine) Ashton is the new High Representative. Gordon Brown. As FT Deutschland reported, it seems that Merkel and Sarkozy made a deal that Uwe Corsepius will succeed Pierre de Boissieu as general secretary of the council (which is probably the really important job), and it looks that Merkel has positioned herself well for the top job she wants most of all – to have Axel Weber as president of the ECB in two years time....
http://www.eurointelligence.com
/article.581+M55ab970427d.0.html
AXEL WEBER
Axel Alfred Weber (born March 8, 1957 in Kusel) is a German economist and has been the president of the Deutsche Bundesbank since April 2004.
Axel Weber studied economics and public administration at the University of Konstanz from 1976 to 1982, concluding with a teaching diploma.
From 1982-1988 he worked as research assistant in the field of monetary economics at the University of Siegen and was awarded a Doctorate in 1987. In 1994 having passed his Habilitation qualification he went as a Professor to the University of Bonn, from where in 1998 he went to the Johann Wolfgang Goethe University Frankfurt am Main (where he remains a member of the Advisors' Board). He was also the Director of the Center for Financial Studies in Frankfurt am Main. In 2001 he became Professor of International Economics at the University of Cologne, and from 2002-2004 he was a Member of the German Council of Economic Experts. From October 2002 he was a member of the expert advisory panel to the Deutsche Bundesbank.
Axel A. Weber has been President of the Deutsche Bundesbank and Member of the Governing Council of the European Central Bank since 30 April 2004. He is also on the Board of Directors for the Bank for International Settlements (BIS).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel
_A._Weber
SAVING GREECE: AN INTERVIEW WITH AXEL WEBER
http://www.cnbc.com/id/36825471
National ID program would be titled "THE BELIEVE SYSTEM"!!!!!!!
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/95235-democrats-spark-alarm-with-call-for-national-id-card
Anon 12:19,
I'll see that and raise you this!
National ID Card Included In Democratic Immigration Bill
Democrats pushed forward on an immigration overhaul on Thursday evening with no Republican support, as Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) continues to hold out, arguing that the divisive issue will make progress on climate change legislation impossible.
The Senate is also in the middle of debating Wall Street reform, which is expected to take up the next few weeks of floor time. Reid, however, said that the chamber would be able to handle the task. "We can do more than one thing at once," he said.
The Democratic proposal includes increased money for border patrol and drug war agents, equipment, helicopters and unmanned drones. It would create a national ID -- which is dubbed a "biometric social security card." Though Democrats insist that it is not an ID card and can only be used for employment purposes. [UPDATE: See language limiting its use below.]
The proposal would also include a crackdown on employers who hire undocumented workers. It works to deport some immigrants who are not in the country legally and creates a limited pathway to citizenship for others.
more at link
http://tinyurl.com/2d8w9jd
Trichet: Global Governance Today (Video)
http://tinyurl.com/2cy2p7f
More on Pierre de Boissieu....
The situation hinted at in the following article would not be the first time the "plight of the poor" has been exploited for the sake of political gain......
_______________________
DEVELOPMENT
EU Playing Aid Politics With Aid Policy
Analysis by David Cronin
BRUSSELS, Mar 30, 2010 (IPS) - The world's poor appear to have become pawns in a political battle over the European Union's (EU) new diplomatic corps.
Catherine Ashton, foreign policy chief for the 27-country bloc, is urging that responsibility for development aid should fall within the scope of the European External Action Service (EEAS) that she is in the process of establishing.
In recent statements, Ashton has argued that if the EU is to have a successful development policy, it must be compatible with its broader strategies on issues such as security.
Yet many observers of European politics suspect that the British baroness is more concerned with seizing control of a sizeable budget than in ensuring that development aid brings tangible benefits to the poor. At 15 billion dollars per year, development aid represents one of the top five areas of spending administered by the EU's executive arm, the European Commission.
Plans for how the service should operate have been drafted in secretive meetings between some of the most powerful behind-the-scenes men and women in Brussels. They include Robert Cooper, a British diplomat whose 2004 book The Breaking of Nations advocates that a new form of imperialism should be devised for the twenty-first century, veteran French official Pierre de Boissieu and Ireland's Catherine Day, the Commission's secretary-general.
cont.....
cont...
According to anti-poverty campaigners, there has been no substantial consultation with outside analysts. Some campaigners allege, too, that Ashton's proposals constitute an effort to give her greater powers than those provided for the foreign policy chief in the EU's core rulebooks. The Lisbon treaty, which came into effect last year and created the post awarded to Ashton, says nothing about giving the foreign policy chief responsibility for development aid, the campaigners say.
Although the EU has a separate commissioner for development policy - now Latvia's Andris Piebalgs - fears are being expressed that he will be something of a vassal to Ashton and her advisers. This could have profound implications for the effectiveness of development aid.
Under its treaties, the Union is legally obliged to ensure that such aid contributes to the reduction and ultimately the eradication of poverty. Yet the top figures mapping out the structure of the new diplomatic service generally lack expertise on poverty-related issues; instead, they have spent most of their careers working on more hard-headed economic and military strategies. Cooper, for example, has written numerous pamphlets for think-tanks close to the political and defence establishment in Washington.
Simon Stocker, director of the anti-poverty organisation Eurostep, noted that the principal objective of the new diplomatic service is "safeguarding the interests of European citizens."
"Where does the eradication of poverty fit into that?"....read entire article...
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=50848
Susanna
Apologies to all to have taken up this much unrelated to thread. Not sure if your really interested in de Boissieuour, or showing me there is info out there, either way I appreciate your efforts. Most people do not even know who he is, and you really have to dig just get this.
I wouldn't be so sure he is going to retire, after all, Sarkozy got him and Michael Barnier thier current posts. That Sarkozy is a slippery one, he may be disliked at home, but still has some clout.
And interestingly, Sarkozy's term ends in May 2012, just in time for the supposed appointment of the new full time EU President to succeed Van Rumpoy, if that even happens.
Pat Bertroche Update:
"Iowa Candidate: Microchipping Comment Not Serious"
"Bertroche said he would instead support issuing of "blue cards" to illegal immigrants that would contain the same microchip technology found in U.S. passports."
http://www.bertroche4congress.com/
http://wcco.com/wireapnewsia/
Iowa.GOP.candidate.2.1660119.html
I wonder...is the "blue card" just the "tails" side of the same Biometric Enrollment, Locally-stored Information, and Electronic Verification of Employment (BELIEVE)SYSTEM coin?
I was stunned as I read through the
Real Enforcement with Practical Answers for Immigration Reform (REPAIR) Proposal. I tend to agree with the following excerpt from Anonymous 2:38 closing paragraph.
"To have avoided all this you would have to go back 30 years and remove yourself from the system then. Your SS# is a main index key, so is your State ID (drivers license or ID) then it goes to state and federal tax records and then to credit history."
From the Proposal Summary beginning on page 11:
"Employers hiring workers in the future will be required to use the newly created Biometric Enrollment, Locally-stored Information, and Electronic Verification of Employment (BELIEVE) System as a means of verification. There will be strict employer penalties for failure to participate in the BELIEVE system after being notified of a requirement to do so by the Secretary of Homeland Security or after the BELIEVE system has been fully implemented nationwide such that it is required to be used by all employers."
-Rudi
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/REPAIRProposal.pdf
Maitreya Debunked
If you have spent any amount of time in alternative conspiracy circles you have probably heard of Benjamin Creme’s “Maitreya” I have mentioned him a few times in my videos as well. I would like to take a second look at this figure, because I don’t think everything is as it seems with him, and not for the reasons you might think…
Introduction
Bejamin Creme, an Englishman, claims to be in contact with an entity called Maitreya. This entity speaks to him through telepathic means, a communion he sometimes refers to as an overshadowing by Maitreya. Creme claims that Maitreya is the “world teacher” that is awaited by the Theosophical Society. As the Theosophical Society’s World Teacher, he is Jesus, Buddha and Krishna wrapped up in one, something known as the “Christ Principle” or “Christ Consciousness.” Creme claims that Maitreya has prepared a body for himself, and lives in London, and will soon begin his public ministry, which consists of “showing us the way out of our current difficulties and bring the new teachings which will guide humanity towards its next evolutionary step.” In fact, in a recent post on the Share International website, Creme claims that Maitreya has already begun his public ministry by appearing on American TV. Unfortunately, Creme refuses to tell us what name Maitreya goes by, but more on that later.
Creme basically claims any miracle or weird occurrence is because of Maitreya… for instance on his website, Creme claims that the ending of the Cold War, the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the end of apartheid in South Africa were just a few examples of Maitreya’s “peace miracles”. So the pattern has been the same, the more outlandish the claim the more publicity, and then when it doesn’t happen, Creme just comes up with a lame excuse to explain why it didnt.
One of Creme’s early publicity stunts involved the date July 31, 1985. When Maitreya disappointed a group of reporters who had gathered to see him, Creme claimed that Maitreya was thwarted by “Cosmic Evil forces”. Creme refers to these forces in an article, in which he interviews himself with a Question-and-Answer-format, just as Helena Blavatsky would do:
Q.I remember when the journalists were waiting for Maitreya in London with Patricia Pitchon [31 July 1985], when apparently Hierarchy decided to move forward, and was attacked by evil forces, specially those from Outer Space, those called Cosmic Evil forces. So Hierarchy had to shield the Earth and some moves in the Reappearance had to be postponed. Now that Maitreya has moved forward, does it imply that our planet is more shielded against intrusions from Cosmic Evil forces, as a consequence of permission given from divine levels of our planet and beyond, to permit Hierarchy to work without being interrupted?
A. No. Maitreya took advantage of an opening of a window of opportunity at a given time.
In order to get a complete understanding of who Maitreya really is, we must take a look at his past. When we do so, we notice a string of misses, especially with regards to dates, and appearances. As we know, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign,” and Maitreya’s signs are not even a little miraculous.
Signs and Miracles
Creme has claimed that everything in the sky is the star sign, he has a plethora of totally ridiculous pictures on his website all of which Creme claims to be alien spacecraft, which is what he says the star sign actually is. Some of them are of Venus, others are close up shots of stars, while others still are colored blurs. In the end, all they prove is that Creme has become so desperate, that he will put up any old picture people send him, in order to keep the momentum going. It’s not easy to keep the hype going after 35 years…
He also claims that Maitreya has taken credit for the Norway Spiral. This one is particularly funny if you have spent any time at all looking into the Norway spiral, because it clearly is some sort of land to air projectile that spun out of control in an interesting but not unique way, as evidenced by viewing the spiral from almost any other angle. I will put a link in the description section that has some really good info in this.
There are other miracles that I encourage you to check out on his website including crying Madonna statues, Crop circles and reflections on buildings.
I would have you notice something else about them too….out of all these dozens of so called miracles, none offer any evidence that Maitreya really exists outside of Crèmes head….all of them except for one…
That is the claim that Maitreya showed up “out of nowhere” in a prayer meeting of Mary Akatsa in the middle of a crowed of hungry people in Narobi and spoke with them. And people were said to have worshipped him.
I want to make it clear that this is the only evidence in the last 35 years that Matrieya exists outside of Creme’s head…if this can be proven to be false, then there is absolutely no reason to believe Crème about anything else.
Here are a few interesting details about this event.
First the reason this event is given credibility is because of the testimony of a man named Job mutungi, who was the editor of the Swahili version of the Kenyan times. And his article also published pictures of the event which they make sure to point out that photographers are always at this woman’s meetings.
Now, according to this article that I found, published just after the events on June 28 1988 in a newpaper called the Washington Afro American, it says that The Kenyan Times when it published the front page story about Jesus coming to Nairobi was in the process of conducting a quote “big circulation drive under the tutelage of British tabloid experts”
This is a very significant point because it seems to confirms Fritz Springmeir who had written the following in a timeline, before his imprisonment:
1986- Top executives of British Media agree to stage the Maitreya’s “Day of Declaration”, but higher authorities in British government veto it.
According to this timeline this was two years before the Nairobi event.
Another piece of information about this meeting, is that the woman who was conducting this meeting, was well known in the area for her heretical teachings. In one interview she explains her method of healing through an interpreter:
MN. Do you go into trance when you are healing? Do you feel the Christ’s energies flowing through you? Are you aware of what is going on when you are healing or does the Christ take over your body?
M. Mami changes when the power goes through. She’s absolutely in trance. She doesn’t recognize individuals. A screen covers her eyes and messages appear on people’s chests.
Adding to the evidence against Maitreya’s Kenya appearance, is that there appears that another evangelist was competing with her across town that week, an evangelist who was drawing much bigger crowds than her, according to the afro times. I would also add that later on it would be claimed that the other evangelist said that Jesus would show up in Nairobi, this detail seems to be added later and no one ever remembers hearing him say it as far as I can verify.
Lastly, this figure who appeared as a Muslim Jesus was said to have “appeared out of nowhere”, but yet he left in a car, after asking a man for a ride to the bus stop! Later, the man who gave him a ride to the bus stop came back to the meeting to tell the crowed that he vanished into thin air at the bus stop that he took him to. So we have to take this driver’s word that there was a miracle after he left.
He also claims that Maitreya has taken credit for the Norway Spiral. This one is particularly funny if you have spent any time at all looking into the Norway spiral, because it clearly is some sort of land to air projectile that spun out of control in an interesting but not unique way, as evidenced by viewing the spiral from almost any other angle. I will put a link in the description section that has some really good info in this.
There are other miracles that I encourage you to check out on his website including crying Madonna statues, Crop circles and reflections on buildings.
I would have you notice something else about them too….out of all these dozens of so called miracles, none offer any evidence that Maitreya really exists outside of Crèmes head….all of them except for one…
That is the claim that Maitreya showed up “out of nowhere” in a prayer meeting of Mary Akatsa in the middle of a crowed of hungry people in Narobi and spoke with them. And people were said to have worshipped him.
I want to make it clear that this is the only evidence in the last 35 years that Matrieya exists outside of Creme’s head…if this can be proven to be false, then there is absolutely no reason to believe Crème about anything else.
Here are a few interesting details about this event.
First the reason this event is given credibility is because of the testimony of a man named Job mutungi, who was the editor of the Swahili version of the Kenyan times. And his article also published pictures of the event which they make sure to point out that photographers are always at this woman’s meetings.
Now, according to this article that I found, published just after the events on June 28 1988 in a newpaper called the Washington Afro American, it says that The Kenyan Times when it published the front page story about Jesus coming to Nairobi was in the process of conducting a quote “big circulation drive under the tutelage of British tabloid experts”
This is a very significant point because it seems to confirms Fritz Springmeir who had written the following in a timeline, before his imprisonment:
1986- Top executives of British Media agree to stage the Maitreya’s “Day of Declaration”, but higher authorities in British government veto it.
According to this timeline this was two years before the Nairobi event.
Another piece of information about this meeting, is that the woman who was conducting this meeting, was well known in the area for her heretical teachings. In one interview she explains her method of healing through an interpreter:
MN. Do you go into trance when you are healing? Do you feel the Christ’s energies flowing through you? Are you aware of what is going on when you are healing or does the Christ take over your body?
M. Mami changes when the power goes through. She’s absolutely in trance. She doesn’t recognize individuals. A screen covers her eyes and messages appear on people’s chests.
Adding to the evidence against Maitreya’s Kenya appearance, is that there appears that another evangelist was competing with her across town that week, an evangelist who was drawing much bigger crowds than her, according to the afro times. I would also add that later on it would be claimed that the other evangelist said that Jesus would show up in Nairobi, this detail seems to be added later and no one ever remembers hearing him say it as far as I can verify.
Lastly, this figure who appeared as a Muslim Jesus was said to have “appeared out of nowhere”, but yet he left in a car, after asking a man for a ride to the bus stop! Later, the man who gave him a ride to the bus stop came back to the meeting to tell the crowed that he vanished into thin air at the bus stop that he took him to. So we have to take this driver’s word that there was a miracle after he left.
He also claims that Maitreya has taken credit for the Norway Spiral. This one is particularly funny if you have spent any time at all looking into the Norway spiral, because it clearly is some sort of land to air projectile that spun out of control in an interesting but not unique way, as evidenced by viewing the spiral from almost any other angle. I will put a link in the description section that has some really good info in this.
There are other miracles that I encourage you to check out on his website including crying Madonna statues, Crop circles and reflections on buildings.
I would have you notice something else about them too….out of all these dozens of so called miracles, none offer any evidence that Maitreya really exists outside of Crèmes head….all of them except for one…
That is the claim that Maitreya showed up “out of nowhere” in a prayer meeting of Mary Akatsa in the middle of a crowed of hungry people in Narobi and spoke with them. And people were said to have worshipped him.
I want to make it clear that this is the only evidence in the last 35 years that Matrieya exists outside of Creme’s head…if this can be proven to be false, then there is absolutely no reason to believe Crème about anything else.
Here are a few interesting details about this event.
First the reason this event is given credibility is because of the testimony of a man named Job mutungi, who was the editor of the Swahili version of the Kenyan times. And his article also published pictures of the event which they make sure to point out that photographers are always at this woman’s meetings.
Now, according to this article that I found, published just after the events on June 28 1988 in a newpaper called the Washington Afro American, it says that The Kenyan Times when it published the front page story about Jesus coming to Nairobi was in the process of conducting a quote “big circulation drive under the tutelage of British tabloid experts”
This is a very significant point because it seems to confirms Fritz Springmeir who had written the following in a timeline, before his imprisonment:
1986- Top executives of British Media agree to stage the Maitreya’s “Day of Declaration”, but higher authorities in British government veto it.
According to this timeline this was two years before the Nairobi event.
Another piece of information about this meeting, is that the woman who was conducting this meeting, was well known in the area for her heretical teachings. In one interview she explains her method of healing through an interpreter:
MN. Do you go into trance when you are healing? Do you feel the Christ’s energies flowing through you? Are you aware of what is going on when you are healing or does the Christ take over your body?
M. Mami changes when the power goes through. She’s absolutely in trance. She doesn’t recognize individuals. A screen covers her eyes and messages appear on people’s chests.
Adding to the evidence against Maitreya’s Kenya appearance, is that there appears that another evangelist was competing with her across town that week, an evangelist who was drawing much bigger crowds than her, according to the afro times. I would also add that later on it would be claimed that the other evangelist said that Jesus would show up in Nairobi, this detail seems to be added later and no one ever remembers hearing him say it as far as I can verify.
Lastly, this figure who appeared as a Muslim Jesus was said to have “appeared out of nowhere”, but yet he left in a car, after asking a man for a ride to the bus stop! Later, the man who gave him a ride to the bus stop came back to the meeting to tell the crowed that he vanished into thin air at the bus stop that he took him to. So we have to take this driver’s word that there was a miracle after he left.
Pierre de Boissieu was Solana's deputy, but enjoyed only a fraction of Solana's powers. It appears that while Europe is in evident chaos [query, did Solana see the mess coming and scramble to get out of the way OR is there a mess because Solana's no longer in charge." Just as Solana left Spain for NATO smelling like a rose while the administration he had just left was smelling like a skunk, Solana appears to be just as rosy-smelling now with new headlines like this:
"SOLANA - DISCRETE MEDIATION IS MORE IMPORTANT
"Javier Solana, the former EU foreign policy and NATO Secretary General, told the Henry Dunant Centre in Geneva, that the rising standard of living would rise to new tensions over resources like oil and water.
Budget increased more than tenfold
The middle class will triple in the coming years, "said Solana, who was on the occasion of the tenth anniversary of the founding of this private foundation in Geneva. The scarcity of resources would increase tensions and trigger new conflicts in an increasingly complex world. The discrete placement of the Henry Dunant Centre is more than ever necessary to facilitate dialogue, further said Solana.
Martin Griffiths, Director of the Centre said, recalling that his organization has been in the first ten years in 15 conflicts around the world in use, such as in Indonesia, Nepal, Sudan, Kenya and Burundi. Currently, the Centre is active in ten current crisis regions.
Last year the budget was 17 million francs. One was started in 1999 with a budget of 1.5 million francs. Several organizations such as the ICRC, and 14 countries ensure the financing of the Henry Dunant Centre, including Switzerland."
Hmmmm??
http://tinyurl.com/2f9utbx
Constance
1.) Creme could be nothing more than someone like Jordan Maxwell or Michael Tsarion, who have a certain skill in speaking and basically spread the message of luciferianism to people who have recently shattered paradigms and are vulnerable to new programming. In telling people about Maitreya, Crème always makes sure to slip in the key component to the externalization of the mysteries in my opinion which is that Jesus was just the “Christ consciousness” and it will be the same consciousness that was in Buddha or Krishna that will be coming back in the future…whether you believe in Maitreya or not this is the message that will prepare the road for the real antichrist and it doesn’t matter if Crème is proven to be a fraud or not as long as he can keep getting that message to audiences.
2.) It could also be another form of a misdirection or slight of hand. If people focus all their energy on thinking that the entity that Benjamin Creme has been promising to show up for 35 years is the Antichrist then they are a not likely to keep looking, they would also look pretty silly when once again Creme is proved to be a fraud.
I don’t deny that Benjamin Creme is talking to a spiritual entity who is telling him to say all this stuff. The enlightenment or spiritual evolution message is pretty much consistent with the rest of the spirits who totally lie about their identities to the person they are talking to. As I have demonstrated in videos like “How 2012 Enlightenment Will Lead to Genocide” and “The 2012 Deception Presentation“, I demonstrate a possible use for this specific mentality for a united false utopia.
You should also remember that these spirits have absolutely no qualms with hanging the person out to dry when they have done their task of evangelizing the core idea. Do you remember the 15 minutes of fame of blossom goodchild and her alien friends that she was channeling which told her to tell the world they were going to show up on a particular day?
So in conclusion:
Benjamin Creme has spent 35 years doing the same thing, telling people that Maitreya has just shown up, and then trying to explain why he cant tell you where he is, all the while, getting paid to travel the world on the hype and preach a specific type of luciferianism. There is no reason to expect Maitreya to show up just because Creme’s claims get bolder, especially as we have proven that Creme has been false on every single occasion in the past.
I need to say and pay attention because I think this is where many of us including myself have been confused. Benjamin Crème was a big time fan of the theosophical society’s writings about the world teacher. His own writings are obviously heavily borrowing from Bailey and Blavatsky. Crème was just an unknown guy who after reading their writings claimed their world teacher was talking to him and he was about to show up on and blah blah blah 35 years pass…well the theosophical society apparently does not claim Crème, maby its because he has not come through so many times, I don’t know but I know that Crème is not a member of the society either.. the point Im trying to make is this…
Yes the World Teacher that was prophesied by Bailey and Blavatsky sounds like the antichrist…and if they say ttheir world teacher has returned you should watch your back.
But in my opinion the only reason that Cremes Maitreya sounds like the world teacher is a.) Because Crème read so much Bailey that he knew the basic idea or b.) that he read so much Bailey that the demons he was letting into his body started acting like the world teacher in order to get people to hear their luciferian doctrine, as demons always play to the person’s paradigm. Whatever you’re into they will seem to confirm it.
Yes the world teacher sounds like the Anti-Christ, but not even the theosophical society believes Creme’s Maitreya is the World Teacher. yes a man will show up at some point and have these basic characteristics, and we should be vigilant in watching. BUT with a track record like Creme’s I think that its time that genuine truth seekers stop saying how high when Creme’s demon says jump.
Hi, JD,
Great minds run in the same channels!!! We both saw it!
Constance
To:
njcr807
Thanks for an excellent post and directing me to your own quality blogspot!
Constance
Constance
You are correct, Pierre de Boissieu WAS Solana's deputy, and used to have a fraction of the power, that was in the past, not the same situation now.
Susanna's efforts earlier are greatly appreciated, but if you look at the articles, they do not center around him (as many articles concerning Solana do), and briefly mention his current involvements.
Solana is very well respected and still carries a great deal of influence throughout the world, but I am afraid he is yesterday's news, that does not mean I say to take your eye off of him, he is way too obvious, too many eyes on him, just another for Satan to use in his grand plan, so we all look at him, to keep us occupied.
Anon 5:57,
So now you are going to blatantly rip a Chris White video and not even give him credit? Unless that is you are saying you are White, but this I doubt as at least White has the courage to add his name to his work. Anyone can type out the transcript of a youtube video, don't try to pass it off as your work, that is called plagiarism, you're better than that.
For those actually wishing to see where Anon 5:51 got his info from.
http://tinyurl.com/28zcncl
http://tinyurl.com/2b5c9eb
Anon 2:38,
I meant to ask, why do you post here signed in sometimes and post anonymously when you wish to tear down someone elses work?
Anonymous 1:39 P.M. and 6:13 P.M.
Constance has been pretty flexible about our occasionally going off- topic - especially if the news we have to share relates to Javier Solana or various EU-related monkeyshines.
Actually, I had never even heard of Pierre de Boissieu until you mentioned him. I thought you were looking for information and needed a little help.
I had no particular interest in Pierre de Boissieu per se until I learned about his influence with regard to the euro and his other reported "behind the scenes" activities.
This relates to the project I am working on with JD.
Some regard de Boissieu as part of an "unholy trinity" that includes de Boissieu, Sarkozy and Jean Pierre Rafarin.
You may very well be correct in your view that de Boissieu may not retire in 2012. Although I have merely posted what has been reported, said reports are no guarantee that as of 2012 his retirement is a done deal.
By the way, have you seen this article? It includes a photograph of Pierre de Boissieu.
Secretary-General behind the scenes at the EU
http://www.se2009.eu/en/meetings_news/2009/
11/25/secretary-general_behind_the_scenes_
at_the_eu
Arizona Deputy shot in stomach by suspected illegal immigrant . . .
http://www.azcentral.com/12
news/news/articles/
2010/04/30/20100430pinal-county-
officer-shooting.html
Planned marches in about 70 cities May 1st - calling it "May Day."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/
20100430
/ts_alt_afp/usimmigrationdemo_
20100430073917
PLEASE TELL ME SOMEONE WATCHED LARRY KING TONIGHT?!?!
This alien thing is getting out of control... it's going somewhere you guys.
Even though the translation of the following article is lousy, it nevertheless provides us with a couple more interesting little tidbits of information where it states that Pierre de Boissieu's father, Michel de Boissieu, was a director of the Rothschild Bank and joined the Resistance during the occupation.
The article also says that de Boissieu is involved in negotiating the agreement on aid to Greece.
http://tinyurl.com/24qaayb
_____________________
It is also interesting that de Boissieu is reportedly reading/memorizing the memoirs of Saint-Simon, a French early socialist theorist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Claude_Henri_de_Rouvroy,_comte
_de_Saint-Simon
The thing that really caught my attention was the article that that read:
...Ms Ashton has created a "high-level group" of 13 people to advise her on the proposal. It held its first two meetings in January, with initial talks dominated by which bits of the commission budget, such as the €285 million a year Instrument for Stability or the €3 billion a year European Development Fund, the EEAS should gobble up.
The high-level group includes several of the most influential behind-the-scenes figures in Brussels.
From the EU Council side, the secretary general, Pierre de Boissieu, known as "Cardinal Richelieu" by some EU officials after the French 17th century arch-manipulator, is on the panel. The director of the council's legal service, Jean-Claude Piris, its top military strategist, Robert Cooper and its top political brain, Helga Schmid, are also in....read entire article...
http://euobserver.com/9/29315
Apparently the origin of microchipping illegal aliens came from a politician in Iowa. He has seemed to switch his thinking.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/iowa-goper-when-i-said-lets-microchip-illegal-immigrants-i-wasnt-advocating-it.php?ref=mp
or at http://tinyurl.com/2d7hrge
"Iowa Republican Congressional hopeful Dr. Pat Bertroche thinks the immigration debate in this country is hopelessly stuck, and says he was only trying to get the dialogue jump-started when he suggested we place microchips in illegal immigrants"
"Bertroche doesn't deny what he said. He just says his comments were meant as "a critical social commentary," and that he wasn't able to complete his thought, because he felt pressured to say something quickly, and audience members were starting to get up and leave. By throwing out a crazy idea, he says, he was trying to cast other extreme ideas into relief. 'This idea isn't any more politically dumb than any other one,' Bertroche told TPM. 'I was trying to call attention to how radical the conversation has become.'"
Unfortunately, Uncle Benny has a following probably larger than we may even know. Whether or not he can produce Maitreya, Creme has misled many. People have also been misled by Rev. Sun Myun Moon. Definitely, two people to steer clear of.
However, I am curious about whether or not Mr. Creme can actually produce Maitreya. And if he does show up, we'll know not to fall for him.
From Natural News (04/30/10). . .
Teen girls bribed to get Gardasil vaccine with shopping vouchers
The British National Health Service (NHS) has begun bribing teenage girls between the ages of 16 and 18 to get Gardasil vaccines. Officials are giving shopping vouchers worth the equivalent of roughly $70 to girls who agree to get jabbed with the vaccine, which has been implicated in numerous cases of severe harm and death.
Officials from NHS Birmingham East and North have initiated the pilot program which is costing taxpayers the equivalent of about $35,000. No parental consent is required in order for young girls to participate in the program.
Many governments around the world have been pushing Gardasil through national campaigns designed to scare and entice women into getting the vaccine. The U.K. is no exception, as it continues to push for all girls between 12 and 18 years old to receive the shots, despite outcry from concerned citizens over the dangers of the vaccine.
To make matters worse, Gardasil is not even effective at preventing the HPV virus for which it is being marketed.
For more . . .
http://www.naturalnews.com/028685
_Gardasil_bribery.html
Susanna
Please accept my apologies, I meant no sarcasm in my responses. I have seen the articles you posted, but did not want to post some of them thinking there would be no interest. I am indeed pleased that someone with your reputation made the efforts to do so, as I feel we should be aware of this man.
Who exactly is de Boissieu? I do not know. I do know that when a man of this skill and current influence can exist in the company he has for many years without setting off any alarms, well, let me say it sets off my alarm.
This whole French connection thing sets off my alarms, Sarkozy, de Boissieu, Rafarin, Barnier, even the official seat of the EU Parliament being located in Strasbourg, France. The news always seems to flow from Brussels, but the official seat is in France. Maybe all this means nothing, but I am going to watch and make sure.
Thank you again for your research, and yes I saw the photograph, there are now several out there, there was even an article a few weeks back claiming he was a homosexual.
I did not see the article on his father, thanks for that.
David,
I smell bull coming from Betroche. The fact is this is not the first time the subject of microchips and illegal immigration have been lumped together like this. Joe Biden once made some very telling comments during a Supreme Court nomination hearing having to do with just these two subjects, and giving his word that said justice would be voting on it within his time on the bench. I think Betroche wanted to be the first one to throw his hat in the arena this time, expecting others would quickly follow suit and when they didn't he was left holding an uncomfortable bag.
Lo,
Missed the first showing of King, but thanks for the heads up, will try to catch the replay.
Constance,
I'm having a difficult time understanding how holding people who are in this country illegally accountable for breaking the law makes one "anti-immigration."
The key word here is "illegal." Being an attorney, I would think you would understand the significance of that distinction and not label people who respect the law and believe it should be applied fairly and impartially as "anti-immigration."
That said, I would not support microchipping anyone. I also want to be clear that I, along with most Americans, welcome those who come to this country through the proper legal channels. After all, we are a nation of immigrants.
But if you think it is proper to equate deporting illegal immigrants with not showing kindness to strangers, would you support opening the border and let whoever wants to come across it? It seems to me that would be a very kind thing to do.
Anonymous 10:35
Since no offense was taken, no apologies are necessary.
Angela Merkel seems awfully anxious to replace Pierre de Boissieu.
I have been on business trips to Europe. Trust me. Nobody likes or trusts the French.
I myself am keeping an eye on Germany - the so-caled "paymasters" in terms of the value of the euro.
The paymaster: Angela Merkel
Beware of Greeks bearing gifts, says German leader as she refuses to guarantee bailout
....So why is Merkel so reluctant to sign up to a Greek rescue package?
It is hard to overstate the irritation felt by German public opinion at the profligacy practised by the Greeks and other peripheral eurozone countries, including Ireland. While the Germans worked and saved, the so-called PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain) partied. Now that the bills have come due why should Germany pick up the tab?
As a German newspaper recently pointed out, while Greeks are protesting at their government's proposals to raise that country's retirement age to 63, Germany recently raised its retirement age to 67. Why should Germans subsidise the Greeks to retire four years earlier than they do?
Annoyance
But annoyance at the allegedly spendthrift ways of the PIIGS provides only a partial explanation for Merkel's reluctance to bankroll a Greek bailout.
When Germany agreed to the creation of the single European currency in the 1992 Maastricht Treaty, it inserted several clauses designed to ensure that the euro would be a worthy successor to the mighty D-mark.
Having lost two currencies to hyperinflation during the 20th century, the Germans were adamant that the euro would be a strong currency with inflation kept firmly under control.
Not alone would the European Central Bank be modelled on the Bundesbank and headquartered in Frankfurt, the Maastricht Treaty also stipulated that there would be no bailouts of eurozone countries that ran into trouble....read more....
http://www.independent.ie/business
/european/the-paymaster-angela
-merkel-2114005.html
P.S.
With regard to the so-called PIIGS, I will say that in the case of Ireland, I have a friend from Ireland who claims that the economic downturn in that country was deliberately manipulated in order to "persuade" the Irish people to vote in favor of the Lisbon Treaty.
To Rudi @ 4:41 PM:
First of all, thank you so much for your brilliant post and for breaking it down (for many of us who don't have a clue) just how this new "BELIEVE" system would play out.
And, second . . . please don't stay away so long. Your valuable contributons have been missed.
Susanna
I am aware of Merkel's desire to replace de Boissieu, and your analysis has caused me to backtrack. I am now wondering if he may in fact retire in 2011 with Sarkozy and France holding both the G8 and G20 presidencies in the same year.
Do you think there could be some role (behind the scenes of course, this is his style) for him in this? Or maybe he will retire and we will never hear of him again (not that we ever heard much of him anyway)
An excerpt from a piece by Richard Gowan of European Council Foreign Relations:
The EU still has greater voting weight in the IMF than its share of the global economy justifies. There is a hard-headed mood in Washington: accommodating the rising powers is a necessity, and European leaders cannot detach themselves from that. Yet it is worth both US and European policy-makers seeing what lessons they can learn from how they have handled the G20's ascent.
The main lesson is that neither side has been truly strategic in its approach. The US approach was often ad hoc. European leaders did no better. After last year's G8 summit in Italy, Nicolas Sarkozy began talking about an intermediate G14 - whereas Angela Merkel appeared to believe the G20 was the only option. Eurogroup president Jean-Claude Juncker has put up a rearguard action in defence of the old G7, although he also wants a seat in the G20. Herman Van Rompuy also wants a guaranteed invitation.
Last year, the sheer urgency of financial crisis precluded deep thinking on international architecture on both sides of the Atlantic. Now that this urgency is passing - and, for all its faults, the G20 is seen as having mitigated the crisis.
This may be a chance for Europe to adopt a more constructive stance. France will hold both the G8 and G20 presidencies in 2011. President Sarkozy should use this opportunity to rationalize all the G-summitry, in consultation with his EU partners - and the US.
President Sarkozy should open up debate on questions including whether the G20 could develop a role in security issues (a popular topic in Washington) and how it relates to the UN system (which makes many developing countries extremely uneasy). France could also forge an agreement clarifying the balance of G20-G8 relations. And it could initiate a dialogue with the US and emerging powers on how the EU can consolidate its presence in the G20 without sacrificing its economic and political interests. The alternative to transatlantic debate on these issues is more ad hoc cooperation between the US and the rising powers - with the EU a marginalized player, and more often than not a big loser.
Don,
I don't understand how you are accusing anyone here of saying to not hold illegal immigrants accountable. The argument is about MICROCHIPPING illegal immigrants. What don't you understand about that? If you are in favor of microchipping human beings in this context, that's you're right to be of that opinion. However, YIPES!
Repeat after me Don. MICROCHIPPING, MICROCHIPPING. THAT IS THE ARGUMENT. If you think it's a good idea, please explain why you think it is.
Anonymous 7:07 A.M.
Re:Do you think there could be some role (behind the scenes of course, this is his style) for him ( Pierre di Boissieu )in this? Or maybe he will retire and we will never hear of him again (not that we ever heard much of him anyway)
It is hard to say. It is always possible. However, I don't think that the Germans are going to allow the French to "one up" them when it comes to overseeing the euro. And if I am not mistaken, Pierre de Boissieu was very much involved with the implementation of the euro as the EU "coin of the realm."
On the other hand, Pierre de Boissieu has not been dubbed "Cardinal Richelieu" for nothing.
As I said, though, I didn't know anything about Pierre de Boissieu until you mentioned him here, so all I can do is to make some educated guesses based on the information I have.
Pierre de Boissieu doesn't function in a vacuum. There are various forces at play that might have a bearing on his political career.
During one of my trips to Europe, for example, I attended a dinner where I was seated near two gentlemen from West Germany. This was just a few years after the reunification of Germany. During the dinner conversation, the two German gentlemen didn't mince any words when they explained to the rest of us that it was West Germany who had to bear the brunt of the cost of reunification.
These gentlemen weren't just whistling past the graveyard either because the former East Germany is still a major liability on Germany as a whole and has been dubbed "Germany's Eastern Burden."
THE PRICE OF A FAILED REUNIFICATION
http://www.spiegel.de/interna
tional/spiegel/0,1518,373639,00.html
__________________________________
It is to be noted that Angela Merkel grew up in East Germany, so I would assume that her reluctance to willy-nilly bail out Greece may be partly colored by the "Germany's Eastern Burden" mentality which could very easily gain greater currency (no pun intended) during a severe economic downturn in Germany as did the "Stab in the Back" theory among the Nazis in the days of the Weimar Republic.
cont.....
cont...
FRANCO-GERMAN POWER
....The Paris - Berlin axis, in its current form, is a recent embrace. Initially President Sarkozy, in a burst of energy, was preoccupied with his own projects and establishing himself as Europe's most visible leader. Then he began pursuing Chancellor Angela Merkel. He knows he is stronger inside a Franco-German alliance.
So how does this axis reveal itself?
- The choice of Herman Van Rompuy to be President of the European Council was interpreted in France and the UK as a victory for Merkel-Sarkozy. They had said beforehand they would reach an agreement together and not oppose each other. In Paris the rejection of Tony Blair was seen as a victory for Franco-German unity.
- Angela Merkel went to Paris for France's Armistice Day. She was the first German leader to take part. President Sarkozy enthused that the Franco-German friendship was a "treasure".
- The last time the two leaders met, President Sarkozy is said to have given Angela Merkel a copy of the notes General De Gaulle had taken at his first meeting with Chancellor Adenauer in 1958. Surely a sign that he wants the Sarkozy-Merkel relationship to follow that of Francois Mitterrand with Helmut Kohl and De Gaulle with Adenauer.
- France's loose-lipped Europe Minister Pierre Lellouche wrote in Le Monde that "more than ever the relationship between France and Germany will form the heart of what I would call the third phase of post-war European history". There is much talk of a "new Franco-German agenda for Europe"....read entire article...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/the
reporters/gavinhewitt/2009/11/s_4.html
_________________________________
I personally thought the part about the presentation of General De Gaulle's notes to Merkel by Sarkozy was especially interesting in light of the fact that Pierre de Boissieu is reportedly the grand-nephew of the former French President Charles De Gaulle.( Just for the record, Le Figaro reports that DeGaulle is a distant cousin of de Boissieu's).
http://en.euabc.com/word/261
Just to digress for a moment, the rivalry between France and Germany is legendary. In this century, the Franco-German rivalry publicly spilled over into the financial sphere during the insider trading scandal involving Airbus, which is an aircraft manufacturing subsidiary of EADS. Have you ever heard of a company with TWO CEO's?
If not, read on......
AIRBUS PARENT ABANDONS DUAL CEO STRUCTURE
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories
/2007/07/16/travel/main3061450.shtml
At the end of the day, given Angela Merkel's East German "workers'paradise" origins, it might not be wise for her to openly give her whole-hearted support to someone like Pierre de Boissieu who is reportedly reading/memorizing the memoirs of utopian socialist Henri de Rouvroy, comte de Saint-Simon?
But these are just my thoughts and I do not pretend in the least to be the "last word" on the subject.
Susanna- Just wanted to say thanks for posting "A Biblical Perspective on Immigration Policy." Very helpful to reference as I discuss this issue with others.
~HM
Dear History-Maker,
Thank you for your kind words.
As I said previously, it is often difficult to know the right thing to do from a Biblical perspective when it comes to issues like immigration. The article I posted is the best one I have seen on the subject.
In our time there are political ideologies whose propaganda has been deliberately and liberally larded with "Christian" terminology which has been twisted in such a way as to legitimize agendas that are anything BUT Biblical or Christian.
For example there is "Liberation Theology" which is basically Marxism tricked out in "Christian" wrappings.
I, like most other posters here, am totally against microchipping as a solution.
However, there are no Biblical injunctions against effectively enforcing the immigration laws that are currently on the books.
The way our "fearless leaders" who are looking to enlarge their voting base play us is to call us "racists" or to equate the term "illegal alien" with terms like "undocumented immigrants" or "undocumented workers" in order to disguise the fact that illegal immigration is NOT immigration, but a crime!
Here in Massachusetts a bill was just shot down that would require a person to prove he is in this country legally before receiving taxpayer-funded benefits.
http://audio.wrko.com/m/audio
/30559069/massachusetts
-immigration-law.htm
As one wag put it, "Why not just send the checks down to Mexico?"
It also looks like Obama's "Aunt Zeituni" will get to stay in public housing here in Massachusetts after all.
Sigh!
IMHO, Iran on a Commission for Women's Rights is somewhat analogous to Hitler on a Commission to battle anti-Semitism.
Go figure!
Constance
Anonymous and Susanna,
I would not hold ones breath on the urgency being over concerning the financial crisis. I believe we are in a period meant to get people comfortable dumping their money back into the system, which will vanish as the second wave hits. This second wave should be all but a given for those paying serious attention. The Greece, Spain, domino has yet to really take its course. Even if said nations do get bailed out, this will have a extremely adverse effect the world over, even if it appears beneficial on the short term.
The manipulation of the precious metals market has yet to play out as well, and people are going to be plenty mad when they realize that Soros and the usual suspects have swindled them again by manipulating said market and making it appear as if precious metals were a better investment. When the correction comes on this end many will realize that such investments are only worth a fraction of what they were told, and no where near what they lost in other assets by investing in gold, silver, etc. Of course all of the same players are involved across all of these issues, which should be of little suprise. My point being, this is no time to get comfortable. The current system is falling apart at the seams while the masses are being told things are getting better.
Pierre de Boissieu was Charles de Gaulle's son-in-law. Those connections got him started and he reportedly stayed in by hard work.
Constance
Susanna, I left a comment for you at JD's blog. It's about that world tourism thing. And they think WE'RE the crazy ones!
Constance,
Whoever reported that Pierre de Boissieu was De Gaulle's son-in-law was apparently mistaken.
Since Pierre de Boissieu was born in 1945, he could not have possibly been De Gaulle's son-in-law.
The following obituary from the Independent dated Thursday, April 13, 2006 states that it was General Alain de Boissieu (b. July 5, 1914) who married De Gaulle's daughter Elizabeth in 1946.
http://www.independent.co.uk/
news/obituaries/general-alain
-de-boissieu-473897.html
_______________________________
Le Monde reports on March 25, 2010that Alain de Boissieu and Pierre de Boissieu were cousins.
Le formateur lui-même a été à bonne école, celle du panache. Son père, Michel de Boissieu, ancien directeur de la banque Rothschild, avait rejoint la Résistance pendant l'Occupation. En octobre 1940, il avait épousé la mère de ses futurs enfants, une Mlle Cahen, deux semaines après la promulgation du statut des juifs, et l'avait annoncé dans la presse. Simone Veil, amie de la famille, le raconte dans ses mémoires. Parmi les cousins, il y avait le général Alain de Boissieu, héros de la France libre et gendre de De Gaulle.....
http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/
article/2010/03/25/pierre-de
-boissieu-l-eminence-de-
bruxelles_1324281_3214.html
The article also says that Simone Weil was a friend of the de Boissieu family. I am assuming that the Simone Weil to whom the article refers was the famous French philosopher who fled from the Nazi occupation of France to the United States and then to England in 1942, where she worked for the Ministry of the Interior in De Gaulle's Free French movement in 1943. Born in 1909, Simone Weil would have been a contemporary of General Alain de Boissieu. Pierre de Boissieu had not yet been born when she died.
Here is a video interview of General Alain de Boissieu
http://www.ina.fr/histoire-et
-conflits/seconde-guerre
-mondiale/video/CPD020000
75/general-alain-de-boissieu.fr.html
No doubt, at the end of the day, however, you are quite correct in saying that it was Pierre de Boissieu's family connections - including his tie to De Gaulle - that got him started - after which he stayed in by hard work.
BattleCreekDavid,
I replied to your message at JD's blog.
I am still shaking my head over that article too.
Here is a link to the Larry King Live show about Aliens. I haven't watched them yet but thought I would give others a quick link to check it out.
http://setiradio.blogspot.com/2010/05/seth-on-larry-king-live-april-30-2010.html
Valerie
BattleCreekDavid,
Thanks for your comment. I’d like to have a respectful dialogue with you about the real issue here, but first I suggest you reread Constance’s post and my response, in which I clearly state I am not in favor of microchipping anyone.
Please note that her post begins with an article citing one individual running for office in Iowa who suggests implanting microchips in immigrants prior to deportation. Not some angry mob, not “anti-immigrant forces,” not a vast right-wing conspiracy. Just one person.
She follows that article with the following commentary: “The scriptures are clear: ‘You were once a stranger in a strange land. THEREFORE, you shall treat the stranger among you with kindness.’ For that, if no other reason, I have never found it in my heart to support anti-immigration campaigns. I have many friends who feel differently, but I have stood my ground on this over the years.”
That’s what she wrote, David. For years she has not supported anti-immigration campaigns. What, exactly, is an anti-immigration campaign? She doesn’t say, but because her disdain for these “campaigns” goes back years, it obviously was long before the microchipping issue ever arose. She then appears to equate treating strangers with kindness with allowing immigrants to enter and remain in our country illegally.
In the next sentence, she writes, “Now, it appears that the anti-immigration forces might be the catalyst for increased demand for human microchipping.” She has suddenly moved from a general argument in support of illegal immigrants to decry “forces” that support human microchipping and by implication will help bring in the Mark of the Beast. Give me a break.
This sort of broad-brush smearing of people with whom one doesn’t agree is something I would expect from non-Christians, but not from a fellow Christian. One person hardly makes a force, nor does it fairly represent the vast majority of people who believe laws mean something and that people who break them should be held accountable. That is not unkind nor is it unbiblical.
Of course, Constance could clear this all up if she would respond to my previous comment. Was she only speaking about people who support human microchipping or does she consider anyone who believes immigration law should be enforced is “anti-immigration.” As I previously stated, the key word is “illegal.” And I’m still waiting to hear her position on whether we should open the border to whoever wants to come to the U.S., or whether she believes there should be some limitation.
Here’s my concern, David. When a person uses a pejorative term like “anti-immigrant,” it’s essentially calling people who have a different point of view racist. As a Christian I find that very offensive and irresponsible. If I’ve misunderstood, I hope Constance will set the record straight and explain what she meant by her comments.
Protests against Arizona immigration law go nationwide
CNN) -- Thousands of protesters in cities across the United States waved American flags as they rallied Saturday against Arizona's tough new immigration law and pushed for national immigration reform....
Police arrested about 20 protesters -- including a U.S. congressman -- at Saturday's rally in Washington.
Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Illinois, was among a group of protesters who were arrested for blocking the sidewalk outside the White House in what they said was a planned act of civil disobedience. The protesters wore T-shirts that read "ARREST ME NOT MY FAMILY" and "ARREST ME NOT MY FRIENDS."
http://tinyurl.com/29kureq
Here is another report about the protesters against the Arizona immigration law:
Turnout a Bust at Pro-Illegal Immigration Marches; L.A. Protesters One-Tenth of 2006 Effort
Saturday, May 1, 2010 | Kristinn
Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:49:25 PM by kristinn
Despite a coordinated hype campaign between left-wing pro-illegal immigration activists and the mainstream media, turnout was a bust at May Day marches in two bellwether American cities where crowds were much lower than expected. In Los Angeles, the turnout was a mere tenth of the half-million that marched there four years ago.
In a preview article published yestereday, Reuters said of the pending Los Angeles march:
Marches across the state on Saturday will show whether Latinos are energized. The standard will be the rallies in March 2006, when some 500,000 people took over downtown Los Angeles to oppose a tough federal bill that later failed.
The AP reported that police estimated the number of protesters in Los Angeles at 50,000, half of what was expected by organizers:
Police officials estimated about 50,000 demonstrators marched through downtown Los Angeles to demand immigration reform and to protest Arizona's tough new law against illegal immigrants.
Officer Rosario Herrera said the crowd peaked early Saturday afternoon and was estimated to have dwindled to about 30,000 by 2 p.m.
...Police had prepared for an anticipated 100,000 people.
In Dallas, where 100,000 were also expected to march, only 20,000 to 25,000 turned out, according to this AP report:
Organizers had estimated as many as 100,000 might attend the Dallas march. Police estimated between 20,000 and 25,000 gathered in the plaza outside City Hall. Organizers said thousands more participated in the march.
The May Day marches were already arranged by leftist groups across the country as a traditional communist day of agitation. The same leftist groups have been supporting amnesty for illegal aliens for years, making the marches the perfect fit for an instant nationwide protest against Arizona's new law targeting illegal aliens.
Respective turnout in the seventy other cities scheduled to have pro-illegal immigration marches today numbered in the high hundreds to well less than ten thousand, putting them well under the two million Tea Party protesters who demonstrated in cities and towns nationwide just two weeks ago on April 15th.
It appears that nationwide the pro-illegal immigration movement failed to match the 500,000 marchers they had in just one city, Los Angeles, four years ago.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2504817/posts
Don, I happen to agree with you about illegal immigrants. The "strangers among you" doesn't excuse illegal behavior or immoral behavior. The stranger may act strange, but he needs to fit with the community he is learning about. Judaism isn't stupid.
However I do have a problem with your statement:"This sort of broad-brush smearing of people with whom one doesn’t agree is something I would expect from non-Christians, but not from a fellow Christian."
Talk about smearing with a big brush, you've done it. What in the heck makes you think that the majority of Christians tell the truth any more than any other group of people? Are they born into honesty by their genes? Do they have nothing to learn? Do they not need the commandments? Do they all listen to ministers and listen once and for all? Pity God didn't know that all people called Christians were born moral and perfect. Jesus told them there were commandments they had to follow, at the very least the two great commandments, which were based on the ones found in the Jewish bible. Ever heard of Aryan thinking?
Dorothy
The following article is a good overview of the situation in Greece and of Germany's refusal to agree to a bailout of Greece without stringent conditions attached.
Revolution from Greece's ruins as crisis deepens
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/
worldnews/europe/greece/
7664764/Revolution-from-
Greeces-ruins-as-crisis-deepens.html
"You were once a stranger in a strange land. THEREFORE, you shall treat the stranger among you with kindness."
Yes it's so that the bible states this but at the same time I don't think Israel would have ever accepted the terms that the strangers or illegals have placed on this nation, Israel probably would have seen them as a enemy within there nation taking it over, fact is there is no solution for this problem, this nation the USA is experiencing the judgements the bible warned us about because of the national sins.
Anon 9:45
Why the inclusion of Israel in your remarks? Have I missing something?
Anonymous 10:41,
just where did you think the comment about the stranger in a strange land came from? The comment has a history and a context which is Judaism and Israel.
Dorothy
Dear Dorothy,
I have been at my mothers since Thursday my mom doesn't have a pc so I not commented at all.. I stand alone and say this to you Dorothy. Last time I was on line you was been attacked I defended you and I meant every word I said even gave you a hug I truly felt for you at that time hun still do I know you can hold your own on here. I do not have any hidden agenda at all. Dorothy when It comes down to all of this. I mean in personal life everyone of us will give an account.... This is not standing in judgment of you or anyone else here "God for bid it".
Dorothy you have given your heart here and posted valuable information I really respect you for that please don't think I don't ok... I'm talking form my heart here.. The only way I know how.
You have a talent here just keep using it for God.
God bless you so much Dorothy
(((hugs)))
This up at Fulfilled Prophecy:
Baroness Ashton expected to quit EU job within months
http://tinyurl.com/35bprz7
Dorothy
I was speaking to this comment that seems to be of present day context:
"I don't think Israel would have ever accepted the terms that the strangers or illegals have placed on this nation, Israel probably would have seen them as a enemy within there nation taking it over"
I must have misunderstood the commentators speculation as to how Israel would view the immigration problems in US, were it to happen within her borders.
YesNa,
Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Although, I don't think it's too surprising. She was way over her head and placed in an impossible position.
Maybe we should think of the illegal immigration issue like some gigantic oil spill. How do you really effectively stop it?
oveConstance,
Many pictures of the gulf oil spill show it as red. For example:
http://tinyurl.com/28cz25h
Rev 8:8-0 says ""something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed." The oil rig was blazing when it went in, and now they say it is like a black oil volcano:
http://tinyurl.com/37dxd6m
And we are hearing it will do untold harm to sea life. Sounds like fulfillment of a prophecy to me? Anybody else see that? --Nkosazana
A little off topic, but important...
The US president is proposing to hand control of the Middle East peace process to the international community unless there is a breakthrough in the next few months, Israeli officials have said.
Mr Obama has formulated a secret plan with leading European allies to convene an international peace conference by the end of the year, according to Israel's Haaretz newspaper.
The move would fulfil one of Israel's deepest fears by effectively stripping the Jewish state of its power to dictate the course of talks.
The conference would attempt to end decades of Israeli-Palestinian conflict by pressing both sides to accept difficult compromises on issues ranging from the future of millions of Palestinian refugees to the status of Jerusalem.
Mr Obama is also eager to gain international recognition for the creation of a Palestinian state. Will he also make a peace plan...?
Dave in CA
I am not posting this as a condemnation of Christianity or saying in any way this represents Christian ideas. I came across the story when looking for information on the May 1 Prayer Day in DC. (I haven't found much.) I hadn't heard of this group before. It is Lord's Resistance Army and is presented as a Christian group. The quote I've taken from Wikipedia shows the mixture of beliefs that influence it. Calling the group Christian is so New Age.
The story is from Examiner.com
http://tinyurl.com/265c2x5
"Christian" terrorists: Lord's Resistance Army massacre 100 villagers
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_Resistance_Army
"The group asserts itself to be Christian and is influenced by a blend of Mysticism,Islam, traditional religion,and witchcraft, and claims to be establishing a theocratic state based on the Ten Commandments and Acholi tradition. The LRA is accused of widespread human rights violations, including murder, abduction, mutilation, sexual enslavement of women and children, and forcing children to participate in hostilities.
Dorothy
I came across an interesting thing the other day. A former Marvel comics illustrator has decided to try putting out a Christian pro-life comic book. I don't know who he thinks will be the audience because the illustrations are dramatic cartoon stereotypes, well done however, and serious philosophical questions mostly thought about by adults.
The results are curiously compelling. I don't see any New Age message.
Have a look if only to see the beautiful picture of the globe against a starry sky. It has a wonderful 3-dimension quality about it.
http://www.orangepeel3.com/orangepeel3.com/Home_OPcom.html
http://tinyurl.com/2ca5u9s
Here's background:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/apr/10042913.html
Dorothy
Dorothy- nice link. Long ago I read comics. I want to read the whole story here.
ps- I didn't know you were a Spider-Man fan. haha, just kidding
8:12- In the outline, #7 says David founded Jerusalem. I'm not sure what way you mean that, since Jerusalem was there even in the days of Abraham. Probably you mean he founded it as the capital of Israel (or, later, at least of Judah). But, of course, I still liked the outline.
And another scripture which people disagree on is this: Who was the good neighbor, the Pharisee who walked by the fallen man, or the Samaritan who stopped to help?
This scripture indicates to me that Jesus will receive good Samaritans of other persuasions than ours. My Jewish father-in-law fed a small town in the Great Depression, from his store, the only store in town. He went bankrupt. He had nothing to leave to his children, and therefore nothing to leave me, and I
am a poor widow now. So I am participating in his Samaritan behavior, even though I am a Christian and supposedly saved, while he is not. I expect to be raising a toast to him in Heaven.
My opinion would not be that of all
here.
But I have it, just as Constance cited the call in the Scripture to receive the stranger. To think otherwise would be, to me, insulting the justice and even the
good taste of God.
Mariel
Nkosazana 4:31,
In order to fit the Biblical reference, such a catastrophe would have to be something like a billion times larger than the current oil spill along the Gulf coast.
And, while it is certainly possible for oil spills to appear reddish brown under certain conditions, the majority of marine oil spills typically have a gray hue, especially after a few days mixing with seawater. Of course the type and quantity of the oil spilled, the oil's viscosity, water and light conditions, angle of viewing, etc. are all factors which can produce variable results.
But thanks for the link. Indeed, some photos did capture the “rust” color of this particular spill as it appeared at certain times, in certain locations, from various angles. However, the vast majority of the photos of this spill show it to be the typical gray color, not red.
See:
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/oil-creep.html
FYI- I've included a link to a rather interesting description of oil spill behavior with a synopsis of some of the factors that determine the environmental effects. This particular synopsis minimizes the long term negative effects on the environment, while emphasizing the ability of the ecosystem to clean itself over what amounts to a fairly short time period...
"The main characteristics of oil transformations are their dynamism, especially at the first stages, and the close interaction of physical, chemical, and biological mechanisms of dispersion and degradation of oil components up to their complete disappearance as original substances. Similar to an intoxicated living organism, a marine ecosystem destroys, metabolizes, and deposits the excessive amounts of hydrocarbons, transforming them into more common and safer substances."
This synopsis is likely much closer to the truth than the current media apocalyptic-end-of-life-as-we-know-it-catastrophe hype. That said, I wouldn't recommend eating any shell fish farmed off the Gulf coast for at least a few years….
http://www.offshore-environment.com/oil.html
omots
My father fed a town...
that is works based salvation...
how many here believe well meaning pagans who do NOT call upon the name of Jesus will be saved?
So what did Jesus die for again?
You mean you are all Christ deniers.... every one of you whom think there are "other ways" to heaven, and that good deeds are all that is needed to enter in to heaven.
Mariel your dad probably heard about Jesus, and chose to deny Him.
No amount of good works is ever enough to buy your way into heaven.
this is whats wrong with most people, they expect a gold medal for their good deeds, meaning they were not good deeds to begin with, they were self martyrdom deeds, meant to self canonize. in other words they did them to be seen of men.
Many are the humanitarians who think their righteous works have earned them a place in heaven.
the bible begs to differ, it states our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Lord.
Mariel, your scripture interpretation is way off, and I beg you reevaluate that scripture passage. It can save your eternal life.
A good neighbor is not the same as one who calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus for salvation.
you are all new agers professing there are many ways to God?
He gave us His Son Jesus, that is the only way.
If you lived in the 20th century and are not living in a tribe in the rain forest, you probably heard about Jesus.
Matthew 7:28;
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
so you see even those who thought they had Jesus and were doing it WRONG will be cast into the lake of fire, do you think God will allow a Christ denier in heaven if He wont accept fake christians in heaven?
That Benjamin Creme and everybody else in the New age is deceived is undisputed. HOWEVER, before we blew the whistle on him, he had complete support of the New Age elite and still does: When he spoke in Detroit, November 4, 1981, the entire spectrum of the New
Age/Environmental/Holistic Health Medical Association/Unity/Unitarian/est/Silva Mind Control, etc., etc. was out and in full support of him and his thesis. Marilyn Ferguson, Theosophists, Course in Miracles, etc., Bread for the World, Oxfarm, Sierra Club, etc. were there lending support and having booths selling and giving things away in the lobby. There favorite saying was then WE ARE ALL ONE and indeed they were until some of us came along and pointed out what their "oneness" was all about. At that point, "WE ARE ALL SEPARATE -- THAT'S THEM NOT US."
They were and are ALL ONE except those who by the Grace of God were called out and are being called out.
Creme had immense powers to hypnotize a large and diverse audience He is not to be taken lightly.
Constance
Marilyn Ferguson was not at the Detroit event on 11-4-1981 but I heard her speak a week or two later in Detroit when she expressed her deep admiration for Benjamin Creme. His informational brochure of 11-4-1981 included her book as a major informational source. It is reprinted in my two books available for you for free by going to our link here PRESENTATIONS FOR DOWNLOADING.
As to the the information source that has posted here as "anonymous" and sent us to some videos, I can't help but notice how much the voice sounds like Mr. Kim Miller of the CONCERNED CHRISTIANS. If it is, I recommend the VERY DEEPEST OF CAUTION! He was into his own dangerous cult and channeling.
FALSE PROPHETS SHALL ARISE AND DECEIVE MANY. Do be careful!
CONSTANCE
The voice does sound like Kim Miller's old audio tapes. This is what his website "modestly" claims for himself:
"
MY ROLE: EXPLAINING THE PAST 2,000 YEARS
What is revealed in the Book of Daniel, as well as in other passages in scripture, includes mainly the history of the world as it occurred in Old Testament times, before the birth of Jesus Christ. What is contained in all of scripture, and has now been revealed by the Holy Spirit in immense detail, is an enormous amount of the past two millennia of man's history and its prophetic meaning. This has been My Role as the Lord's prophet of the last days.
What is the ultimate purpose of this role? The understanding of history and its prophetic meaning delivers one's heart and mind from the love and fallen "wisdom" of the proud earthly kingdoms of this world, and delivers one's heart and mind into genuine heavenly citizenship. Jesus Christ testified "My kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36), and deliverance from national pride is necessary in order to avoid the spiritual deception that encompasses the world.
90-minute Prophecy Tapes. Explaining the prophetic meaning of the world's history, especially the events in the approximate 2000-year time period from the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ to February 15, 2002, was the Lord's purpose in the 5-tape Foundation Series + 777 more tapes. Each tape included corresponding visual pages, referred to as "charts", totaling more than 25,000 pages. A list of the 90-Minute Ministry Tapes and Accompanying Charts, along with their brief "Descriptions", can be seen on the Prophecy Tapes and the Descriptions pages of this website.
Radio Messages. The hour is late. Most of you have been lacking in a true understanding of the gospel. You are far behind in the true understanding of prophecy. Do this to deliver your deluded, patriotic souls into truth: Go to the Radio Messages segment of this website. Listen to the 4-minute messages. Receive their truth into your heart, see it God's way, and you will be saved. The Radio Messages present the true gospel, and there is no other.
The Unsealings. The Lord has patiently waited until the 7th day of the 7th month of the 7th year of the 7th millennium to release the Unsealings. If you are sincere, you will learn the meaning of world history. You will learn it nowhere else. The Unsealings have begun. Go in order. Be Sincere. Fear God.'
BE CAREFUL. If you are not him, please identify yourself!
CONSTANCE
In staunch defense of Mariel, works do count for something -- MATTHEW 25, The Book of James. Works do not bring one salvation -- but they certainly count towards reward and punishment.
Constance
Any prophetic significance in this?
"Putin Welcomes Gift Leopard From Iran"
http://tiny.cc/rsvxp
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2010/05/putin-welcomes-gift-leopard-from-iran-.html
-nick
The ONLY story on the Drudge Report this morning (05/03/10)
"HE'S NOT DEAD?"
"Pakistan Taliban Leader Threatens US Cities"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/
20100503
/wl_afp/pakistanunresttalibanus
Mariel:
Until we draw our LAST breath, each and everyone of us has a chance to be saved.
God is a just God, but He is also a merciful God . . . and only HE can read a person's heart.
Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin
Dale McAlpine was charged with causing “harassment, alarm or distress” after a homosexual police community support officer (PCSO) overheard him reciting a number of “sins” referred to in the Bible, including blasphemy, drunkenness and same sex relationships.
The 42-year-old Baptist, who has preached Christianity in Wokington, Cumbria for years, said he did not mention homosexuality while delivering a sermon from the top of a stepladder, but admitted telling a passing shopper that he believed it went against the word of God
Police officers are alleging that he made the remark in a voice loud enough to be overheard by others and have charged him with using abusive or insulting language, contrary to the Public Order Act.
Mr McAlpine, who was taken to the police station in the back of a marked van and locked in a cell for seven hours on April 20, said the incident was among the worst experiences of his life.
“I felt deeply shocked and humiliated that I had been arrested in my own town and treated like a common criminal in front of people I know," he said.
“My freedom was taken away on the hearsay of someone who disliked what I said, and I was charged under a law that doesn't apply.”
Christian campaigners have expressed alarm that the Public Order Act, introduced in 1986 to tackle violent rioters and football hooligans, is being used to curb religious free speech.
Sam Webster, a solicitor-advocate for the Christian Institute, which is supporting Mr McAlpine, said it is not a crime to express the belief that homosexual conduct is a sin.
“The police have a duty to maintain public order but they also have a duty to defend the lawful free speech of citizens,” he said.
“Case law has ruled that the orthodox Christian belief that homosexual conduct is sinful is a belief worthy of respect in a democratic society."
more at link
http://tinyurl.com/2adxkul
DETROIT (AP) - Judge allows 9 accused militia members charged with plotting against US to be released on bond.
http://tinyurl.com/2btlfnr
It looks like the judge decided these folks weren't such a imminent threat after all. Where's that other shoe?
Greece Gets $146 Billion Rescue in EU, IMF Package
May 3 (Bloomberg) -- Euro-region ministers agreed to a 110 billion-euro ($146 billion) rescue package for Greece to prevent a default and stop the worst crisis in the currency’s 11-year history from spreading through the rest of the bloc.
The first payment will be made before Greece’s next bond redemption on May 19, said Jean-Claude Juncker after chairing a meeting of euro-region finance ministers in Brussels yesterday. The 16-nation bloc will pay 80 billion euros at a rate of around 5 percent and the International Monetary Fund contributes the rest. Greece agreed to budget measures worth 13 percent of gross domestic product.
“It’s an ambitious program, it’s austere but it’s absolutely necessary,” Juncker told reporters. European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet, speaking at the same press conference, said Greece’s plan will “help to restore confidence and safeguard financial stability in the euro area.”
Policy makers agreed to the unprecedented bailout after investors’ concerns about a potential Greek default sparked a rout in Portuguese and Spanish bonds last week and sent stock markets tumbling. At stake is the future of the euro 11 years after its creators left control of fiscal policy in national capitals.
http://tinyurl.com/2444alj
As I said before, this will still have huge implications the world over. It may not have the grandure of a complete Eurozone melt down, but everyone will feel this.
I am not sure how to take this one, and as such would like to hear other opinions. Is this simply posturing in hopes of a prevention of war? Is there more going on here than at first glance is noticable?
Iran offers help in fighting Gulf of Mexico oil leak
TEHRAN (Reuters) - An Iranian state company offered on Monday to help in preventing a vast oil slick that is moving towards the coast of the United States, the Islamic Republic's old foe, from causing an "ecological disaster".
Haidar Bahmani, managing director of the National Iranian Drilling Company, said his firm was ready to provide assistance in fighting the spill in the Gulf of Mexico, the Oil Ministry's website SHANA reported.
Since the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded and sank last month, claiming 11 lives, hundreds of thousands of gallons of crude have been gushing into the Gulf, threatening wildlife and beaches.
"Our oil industry experts can curb the rig leakage in the Gulf of Mexico and prevent an ecological disaster in that part of the world," Bahmani said, without giving further details.
Iran, the world's fifth-largest crude exporter, is under U.S. and U.N. sanctions for nuclear work the West suspects is aimed at making bombs. Tehran rejects the charge.
http://tinyurl.com/32c5gz8
Just picked up Raj Patel's "Value of Nothing" from the library. I've only read chapter 1. If he went around claiming he was Maitreya, I think people would follow him. He sounds so much like the description given by Mr. Creme. It is a bit eerie.
I think with the way things are in the world, this would be a perfect time for a false prophet to step forward. I think the new agers were attempting to rush Maitreya out in the 80's, but then Constance came along and blew their cover. Then came a slew of other new age exposes.
Unfortunately, Benjamin Creme and bunch did not go away. They were just biding their time as far as Maitreya was concerned.
Anyway, I'll have to report on what I've read in Patel's book. At least it's not dry reading.
5/3/2010
JD wrote: "Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin"
This is post-Christian Britain in action. If a Muslim said it the police would not dare touch him.
With our Manchurian president, and pending Democrat "hate-crime" legislation, can the USA be far behind?
5/3/2010
Anon 7:17 AM wrote: "Mariel your dad probably heard about Jesus, and chose to deny Him.
No amount of good works is ever enough to buy your way into heaven."
How dare you presumptively cast aspersions on someone you never knew and an insult to one of our contributors. I can see why you are "Anonymous."
We should have learned from the Book of Job that, when someone has a hard time, it is not right to jump to conclusions about why. Job suffered for no reason; yet his “friends” all stated that he must have done something wrong to warrant his hardships. In the end, God chastised Job’s friends and rewarded Job.
You should apologize and repent for your slander.
Len
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