HE'S RIDING HIGH!From the looks of this just in story which you may read by clicking here, Javier Solana's headed six nation Geneva talks with Iran vis a vis its nuclear capabilities are going quite well.
Since, according to this article, he plans to resume talks at the end of the month, it appears to me that he may be staying on the job.
If he isn't, whoever succeeds him will have some mighty big shoes to fill.
Stay tuned!
CONSTANCE
179 comments:
Dan Brown's new book is creating interest in identifying known Freemasons currently "serving" in Congress...
Joe Wilson, Grassley, many others:
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=FDC5C74E-18FE-70B2-A809647FB515D39E
Is Benny Hinn's denied entrance to the UK due to the religion points-based system another implementation of the A of C? Will this new religious hate criteria checklist be used to marginalize Christians?
Mr Hinn has previously visited Britain without problems, but since November, under Home Office rules intended to combat extremism, all religious workers must obtain a valid certificate of sponsorship before they arrive in the UK.
One of the aims of the new points-based system was to prevent teachers of religious hate entering the country.
Dave in CA
"Christian couple face losing hotel after criminal charges for offending Muslim woman"
http://tinyurl.com/y92dms5
Dan Brown's new book is flagrantly pro-New World Religion, Institute of Noetic Sciences, syncretism, etc. ad nauseum.
Constance
I had not heard up until now that Benny Hinn was denied access to the UK. I am no fan of Benny Hinn BUT that does not bode well for Christian rights. Things have started and thanks to the SCP-EMNR-CRI-Christianity Today disinformation network, most have slept right through while the New Age agenda was being implemented.
Constance
Constance,
Dan Brown's new book is about Freemasonry. As for Benny Hinn, yeah that's bad news. I am not a fan either, but this could be used against the rest of us. Besides, I wonder what they mean by preachers of hate. What kind of hate does Benny Hinn preach?
Savvy
Yes, just please ignore all those Freemasons in Congress...
Benny Hinn preaches the standard condemnation of homosexual practices. I heard him preach many times years ago when we followed him.
His message at that time was the standard evangelical one, as far as condemning sin goes. Nothing unusual.
He is known for his healing ministry but in other respects he is traditional. He is (or was) sympathetic with all Christian mainline sects, including Catholics, and was very popular with Catholics. At that time he did not discuss other religions much, such as Islam, but he could have become energized in that department since I knew his work years ago.He often went to Israel with tour groups and had good relations with Jews. He was born in Israel, in Joppa I believe, of Greek Orthodox/Arab parents, so that could have some bearing on this ruling by the UK.
Please read what was (prophetically) written by Pope Leo XIII over 100-years ago regarding Freemasonry:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html
The more I hear from New Age movers, the more I believe that the whole Conspiracy theorist cult following is part of the agenda. I have read a few sites of supposed channelers and they all claim that these bankster elitest families are the cause of all the world's ills. According to them they will soon fall from power and the world will soon embrace a new way of doing things. I am not condoning what these people say, but I do think it shows their hand. I honestly believe that when the world's economy comes to a grinding halt- and we all know it will- that these "illuminati" will take the fall, they will be blamed in order that the AC can rise to "save" the day.
I think you need to be very careful who you listen too. Conspiriacy theories abound, and I just have to wonder who's agenda they really serve. These guys are being set up to take the fall so that the world will be brought to the place where they will cry for change, a change that is radically different from anything we have ever known. The beast economic system is not something that will have to be forced upon the world- they will be clamoring for it- demanding it even. Just keep that in mind when you read the conspiracy stuff.
RT
To:RT
AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN!
I couldn't agree more.
Christian's right now think they are so smart because they see the NWO/NAM, but I think we are being set up. These things are evil to be sure, and authored by Satan, but it a means to an end.
Thanks for your comments.
Valerie
To:RT
What is your thinking on the 10 Kings who have not yet received a Kingdom? I am starting to think that these are more spiritual kingdoms than political.
Thanks,
Valerie
Benny Hinn practices necromancy. He gains "wisdom" from the answers these dead people give him.
This is abomination unto the Lord pure and simple.
"There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination, or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a wizard or a NECROMANCER, for whoever does these things is an ABOMINATION to the Lord."-Deuteronomy 18:10-12a
By His Grace,
-SV
Hi Valerie
Sorry to interrupt here, but the 10 kingdoms is not spiritual. Before our eyes we have the 10 nation Western European Union (WEU) that is the military wing of the EU, and their Secretary General (little horn) is linked wit Recommendation 666. They did not receive their kingdom yet, because the AC has not been revealed. I think it will not be wise to spiritualise the facts before us.
Wickus
SV,
How do you know Benny Hinn practices necromancy? What does this have to do with his entry into the UK?
Savvy
Dear Valerie,
To quote you:
"Christian's right now think they are so smart because they see the NWO/NAM, but I think we are being set up."
"Fear of the Lord teaches a person to be wise; humility precedes honor."-Proverbs 15:33
Christians who fear the Lord their God, understand that He is Sovereign. They do not think they are 'so smart' as to have complete understanding of those things that He has yet to reveal in His perfect timing according to His Sovereign purpose. God establishes and deposes kings. Truly we are observing God revealing His time-clock as we absorb the events occuring across the world even now.
By His Grace,
-SV
Yes, The book is about FreeMasonryand its SYMBOLS, but I can READ ("Connie can read") and although I have only completed the first 5 chapters of the book which I purchased Saturday night, INSTITUTE OF NOETIC SCIENCES and NOETIC SCIENCES are given extensive play in the book as is the NEW WORLD RELIGION.
CONSTANCE
I am still inclined to believe that the ten kings are ten European countries and their heads. I am suspecting the WEU (Western European Union -- a military federation) of which the tenth country joined in 1995 (Greece). On or about November 20, 1999, the Western European Union handed its powers to Javier Solana only a month after taking his Section 666 created CFSP job.
For now, your guess is as good as mine, but I do believe the WEU constituent countries which hold weighted voting power in the EU are an educated guess.
Constance
Anon 11:40
RE: The ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
I had a hard time getting past the opening paragraph, as it was so full of anti-biblical rhetoric. For example, Leo writes about two camps of human beings…
”The race of man, after its miserable fall from God, the Creator and the Giver of heavenly gifts, "through the envy of the devil," separated into two diverse and opposite parts, of which the one steadfastly contends for truth and virtue, the other of those things which are contrary to virtue and to truth.”
Yet the scripture says just the opposite:
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”. The word “all” usually means “all. Furthermore, if “all” have sinned, then “all” can be saved by faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. “Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth [as] a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.” [Rom 3:23-26]
Pope Leo goes on to describe these two opposing camps of man: “The one is the kingdom of God on earth…..” while the other is, “the kingdom of Satan”.
Again, this concept is in direct opposition to scripture. Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." [John 18:36]
Pope Leo’s opening remarks are in such stark contrast to the scriptures that I cannot give credence to anything else the man had to say.
Dear Savvy,
There has been so much that's been revealed about Benny Hinn that it doesn't take much effort to decipher, from a Biblical perspective, his false teaching and abominable practices.
Here's simply one article (which links to other articles) that lays out the facts pertaining to his 'ministry'. There are many more articles and youtube presentations available.
Link to Article-
http://www.intotruth.org/wof/Hinn.html
or Here-
http://tinyurl.com/y9s7bz6
I was responding to Anony 11:35AM and I doubt that it has anything to do with his entry into the UK.
By His Grace,
-SV
Pope Leo XIII is also known as the “Rosary Pope”, believing and promoting the doctrines that Mary is both Mediatrix and Co-Redemptrix.
I totally understand why offense could be taken at my saying that Christians think that they are so smart to figure out the NWO/MAM. I only meant that this is only the tip of the iceburg.
Mark 9
11 And they asked him, “Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”
12 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected? 13 But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him.”
Matthew 11
10 This is the one about whom it is written:
“‘I will send my messenger ahead of you,
who will prepare your way before you.’
11 I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 He who has ears, let him hear.
Most Jews rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah because Elijah did not come as they had expected.
So we can see that sometimes Scripture has both a spiritual and literal interpretation at the same time. In other words both can be true. Just like they were looking for a King who would set up the Kingdom of God, not a suffering servant. But Jesus is coming and will fulfill those prophecies as well.
I think it is possible that the false prophet is someone claiming to be Elijah, who will trick the Jews into accepting the false Messiah.
I write this for those who may be reading this blog, so that they can go to the WORD and search these things out for themselves. This was just as another view point to consider.
Valerie
Regarding persecution of Christians in Great Britain, just found this snippet which you may read for yourself by going to its link:
"In the UK, persecution is happening by stealth via EU Equality Law and political correctness. Consider just three cases in 2008. A Christian counsellor has been dismissed from Relate because he felt his obligation to give sex therapy to homosexual couples contradicted his Christian ethics. A Christian minister has been removed from a community radio talk show because his statement that ‘Jesus is the only way’ offended some Muslim listeners. A Christian policeman provoked unjustified anger in his local police force when he made a stand on his Christian beliefs regarding homosexuality. He was threatend with dismissal. If you are in the UK and feel you are being persecuted for your faith, contact the Christian Legal Center.
http://www.seekingtruth.co.uk/persecution.htm
CONSTANCE
What does Benny Hinn's necromancy consist of? Probably it is "talking" to Madame (forget name), a deceased prophetess and teacher in France from whom he received inspiration. This is no different than praying to saints, which Catholics do, for intercession. Catholics even ask saints to guide them, as Benny asks for guidance from Madame.
I do not do this. I avoid it, and even avoided it when I was a Catholic.
However, I wonder if this is the same exact thing as Necromancy. I think in Necromancy one calls up the spirit of the dead to do "work", as sorcerers call up spirits. I doubt if Benny calls up Madame or anyone else to "work" for him as a captured spirit. Sorcerers have specific rituals they do to catch the spirits and make them bound to them.
That, I think, is Necromancy.
I am sick of Benny's expensive this and that, including probable multiple homes, not just the fancy one on the Pacific coast, and i no longer follow him. However, if you like evangelical teaching, he teaches evangelical things, or did.
Perhaps by now he has joined Rick Warren and Robert Schuller in what Lighthouse Trails calls apostasy.
Christians by now are so involved in internecine warfare that I don't know where they find the time to preach the gospel.
It is making my faith "thin." I am asking God why He does not step in and stop this finger pointing among Christians. Is he just letting us have enough rope to hang ourselves if we don't sign up for the right "ism"?
I'm sick of it all.
Mariel
Benny Hinn is so over the top on just about each issue - it is difficult to put only one up for even consideration.
One thing to do is try CRI - search for Benny Hinn- see what comes up -
He earned special notation in the book "counterfit christianity" by Hannograff.
Valerie,
While I understand what you mean by the tip of the iceberg. One must not forget the very description given in Revelation for this harlot, her name is Mystery Babylon. Is it a coincidence that the NAM has revived the mystery/occult religions? The very same teachings that promote every single practice our Lord hates!
While I agree in part the NAM is the tip of a very big iceberg, it is still part of said iceberg all the same. So is the UN, as is the EU (which was admitted by Foster Bailey), so was Nazi Germany as well. Many still await the rise of these views in the form of a organized religious structure, however I question the need for such a structure when these views are being spread from pulpits that exist in almost every home in the form of TV, music, social media, and all other forms of entertainment. Not to mention the inroads that have been made into the current organized religious structures.
As to the false prophet being someone claiming to be Elijah, it is possible, however not a neccesity. As you are probably aware these mystery promoters have a tendency to twist scripture to fit their lies. So Elijah's prophecy could be part of a pantheistic god head channeled by a ascended master or whatever you want to label demons these days. So they don't even have to claim to be Elijah, just claim to channel the spirit they claim he did. Given that in their twisted view everything is part of a whole, and every part of that whole is a part of god, or even its own mini god, anything is plausible.
Mariel,
I believe Helena Blavatsky is the name you were looking for.
I do believe that none of us will ever figure out the Mystery of Iniquity. The Dialectic is used on all of us. We chase our own tales. Satan is behind it all and he has had millennia to plan his tricks. Every time you think you are onto something you find another dead end. What I mean is Satan has lots of false alternatives for every angle.
Dear Mariel,
"Be ready in season and out of season , convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."-2 Timothy 4:2-4
It's not an attempt at fingerpointing that I point out the error in Hinn's teaching. I must be ready "in season and out of season" to rebuke any proclaimed teacher who contradicts the precious Word of God.
Please know that I'm not one who is attempting to cause your faith to become thin.
By His Grace,
-SV
From the last post:
Anonymous said...
"Some may argue with me and I'm open to destroying your arguments regarding this matter."
Wow - a love fest if I ever heard one -
7:29 AM
What is this supposed to mean and why did you choose to reply as 'anonymous'? You copied and pasted only a portion of what was said to suit your 'love fest' comment. If anyone believes salvation is conditional should it not be good news to understand that it is not? And if it can be proved by scripture that it is not conditional from Genesis to Revelation, why would you chose to imply that I'm arrogant for suggesting that I can verify it by scripture so that this 'mark of the beast' thing can be done away with?
...Unless you would like to create confusion, of course.
Mariel, JD:
Perhaps the name you were looking for was Madame Guyon, Catholic mystic? I'm not sure on this; but, I do know that Benny Hinn went to Kathryn Kuhlman's grave to receive her "healing anointing" -- or maybe he termed ii "healing mantle." Those in charismania like to refer to "anointings" as "mantles" like Todd Bentley and his mentors before him. While I don't know if we would call what Hinn did necromancy (how does one go about seeking a "healing anointing" from another's grave?), I do know it's certainly apostasy. Benny Hinn is a raving heretic dispensing kundalini at his "healing" 'services.' Avoid him like the H1N1 vaccine.
Examples of what's coming our way.
Teacher changes her sex, then sues Catholic school board for firing her in Canada.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/oct/09100506.html
Savvy
This is very interesting -
the global governance monitor by the CFR
http://www.cfr.org/publication/18985/#/Finance/Map/
DouginMI
Craig,yes, the lady Benny Hinn followed was Madame Guyon. Not Madame Blavatsky.
It IS very serious if he is using "kundalini" at his healing services.
How is this occurring? Is he calling it "kundalini"? Or is someone saying he is using kundalini?
I was bitten by that snake, and I can tell you that it is very damaging and must not be fooled around with. If he is doing this I unequivocally agree with all who reject what he is doing. Kundalini
practice is not just a spiritual problem; it can be a major life-threatening physical problem.
I wrote a book about recovering from it, and it was never published even though there was interest from publishers, because of resistance from New Agers who made money off of exploiting it. True story and sad story but one which is way in my past. I moved on from that long ago.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I already gave up Benny, but I will join in warning about him if this is true.
Mariel
Anonymous 4:20: I have just posted about Benny Hinn and why I would avoid him, but I would not avoid him because of the writings of Hank Hannagraf. I used to listen to Hank many years ago (same time I was going to Benny), and I realized a couple things about Hank. One, he did not tell the truth about Benny. He made some statements which I, who had been at 23 Benny crusades and 8 TV tapings, knew were not true. He said himself he only went into a Benny meeting for a few minutes, and on that based his opinion.
The other thing about Hank is that he had some bad things to say about Chuck Missler. Chuck was my primary Bible teacher during that period when I learned about the Bible, for 12 years.
Now Chuck is no "god" and probably has some faults like all of us, but Hank's statements about Chuck were so volatile and probably so wrong that Chuck sued him. I do not know how that suit came out, as I lost my car that played Chuck's tapes about that time. But I was VERY famiiar with Chuck's teaching and still consider him an outstanding Bible teacher. I stopped listening to Hank about the time I stopped going to Benny.
Mariel
Constance Thank You for the link to the UK Christian Legal Centre.
There's a video and information pack on the site about the proposed EU 'Equal Treatment' Directive which may be of interest to other readers, especially any EU readers.
PDF format information pack;
http://tinyurl.com/y9ern6x
15 mins video;
http://tinyurl.com/yc2f8ax
~K~
Mariel,
You wrote:
It IS very serious if he is using "kundalini" at his healing services.
How is this occurring? Is he calling it "kundalini"? Or is someone saying he is using kundalini?
Hinn doesn't call it kundalini; but, it is kundalini nonetheless. Kundalini is passed on via a touch to the forehead; or, if one is REALLY good at it, one can do this by a wave of the hand, or waving of a jacket, or a blow of breath or even by LOOKING at you -- sound familiar?
Those who transfer kundalini are termed shaktipats:
http://tinyurl.com/ye4hwyb
Another technique of great importance is Shaktipat, the transmission of energy. A powerful yogi can transmit energy to an aspirant and awaken the Kundalini. This is accomplished in one of four ways: by touch, gaze, sound or thought. The yogi may touch the disciple and transmit energy through physical contact, or gaze at the disciple and energy flows from the yogi's eyes. The yogi may utter words which carry energy or, more subtly, energy can be transferred directly by the yogi's thought or will.
Interestingly, I read that those who practice kundalini sometimes refer to this spirit as the Holy Spirit. Au contraire!
Unfortunately, kundalini is being used by many charismaniacs. Todd Bentley used it extensively in Lakeland, Florida last year. The so-called "Toronto Blessing of 1994 (or was it '95) saw this as well. If you google "Toronto Blessing" and "kundalini" you'll come across some sites that compare the effects of both and there are startling similarities. That is because they ARE one and the same.
Bud Press over at Christian Research Service has been researcing Benny Hinn for almost 20 years. Here's an article on Kathryn Kuhlman titled, "Benny Hinn's Move into Necromancy:"
http://www.pfo.org/bhnecro.htm
I'm not sure if Bud has connected the dots on Hinn and kundalini; but, as I recall, he has video footage on his site where Hinn is doin' the "wave" followed by the inevitable falling over by his "fans."
Mariel,
I recall on a previous thread you mentioned that you heard the sound of Indian drums as your husband was in the hospital just before he went to be with the Lord.
As I was skimming the following article, "What if the Spiritual Manifestations Don't Stop" I was reminded of this. I'm not saying this has anything at all to do with you or your late husband; but, nonetheless, I felt led to share this. If it means nothing to you, please disregard. The 2nd account is the one with reference to Native American music:
http://tinyurl.com/y8qy79s
Craig, yes, that is why I was concerned about the manifestations during the dusk to dawn before Irv went to be with the Lord. I was unable to contact the tinyurl you gave. I did it carefully several times.
Yes I am familiar with "shaktipat" as used by gurus, but the kundalini manifestations I was involved in are the type one gets by "raising kundalini" in one's self by yoga practices. I never felt any "shaktipat" from the gurus I visited such as Muktananda or Satchiananda or others. I did fall backwards at a Hinn event when I went up on stage after losing the pain I had been in. He was no where near me, several feet away, but I did feel pushed over from the abdomen, and this was shown on TV. This is a different kind of manifestation than I was talking about which one gets from yoga. Now how would he have gotten this? Curious, I don't understand.
I thought it was what he said it was, God's force of healing. I WAS out of pain for seven months after this event, but the pain came back.
Some people ARE brought to the Lord at Hinn events. My husband Irv who had been a Christian as a boy and college student, but left it, came back to the Lord at the first event we attended in Anchorage, Alaska. And he never wavered from following the Lord in the l6 or so years he lived after that. So to him the event was positive. And so it is for many. It is not all bad.
Mariel
It just occurred to me that when an "administration" leaves office, usually so does access to their online records and their public websites. If ever anyone needed a final warning to archive anything from JS website, I think you should be carefully spending time doing so.
Take care everyone,
Leana
I don't recall Jesus or any of the Apostles ever
pushing someone on the forehead in order to heal them.
I do recall Moses adding drama to God's instructions in order to cause water to gush out of the rock.
He apparently felt that God's instructions needed a little something extra to make the point.
It was because of that little act of disobedience that
the Lord let Moses die without entering into the promised land, and Joshua ( the same name as Jesus ), led Israel into the promised land.
Mariel,
I copied and pasted the tinylink above and it did work this morning. Perhaps the site was down for a time last night(?). Or, perhaps, you are not supposed to look at the site as God does not have a message for you there.
You wrote:
I thought it was what he said it was, God's force of healing. I WAS out of pain for seven months after this event, but the pain came back.
Your experience here is not uncommon apparently. My belief, and I do believe scripture bears this out, is that once God heals it's a done deal. There should be no recurrence. However, usually, the pain/symptoms come back much sooner at these types of "healing" services. In fact, many detractors have asked Hinn to provide proof of bona fide healings -- ones that 'stuck' so-to-speak. To date, he has not produced any. Same thing with Todd Bentley.
I personally was healed from knee pain lasting about 20 years. I did not go to a healing service or have anyone lay hands on me, etc. The pain prevented me from bending over/squating down on my knees and would be worse with the changing of weather. It was worse as I tried to run (not surprisingly) -- something I had done in my youth as exercise and to compete locally in races. Three years ago I had decided to try yet again to run increasing the distance slowly to get back into shape in hopes the pain would not return.
One day as I was running I praised God realizing this was the furthest I had gone and there had been no pain since I started my regimen. I sensed in my spirit that I was to be healed from that pain. I've been pain-free since.
I don't doubt that people can be and are saved at a Hinn crusade. My belief is this is DESPITE Benny Hinn and has more to do with God and the individual’s response to God. Benny Hinn has been shown to be false in so many ways -- not least of which has been his MANY false prophecies over the years.
cont…
cont.
Kundalini yoga can awaken the "kundalini" inside and so can yogi shaktipats. Manifestations vary among individuals and can be latent (re)occuring years down the road.
When you see someone who is "slain in the spirit" or one who is crying, shaking, laughing, ecstatic, etc. -- these are signs of possible kundalini awakening. Just do a Google search on this.
Hinn apparently uses mesmerism in his crusades as well. It's hard to tell which is mesmerism and which is kundalini.
You wrote:
I did fall backwards at a Hinn event when I went up on stage after losing the pain I had been in. He was no where near me, several feet away, but I did feel pushed over from the abdomen, and this was shown on TV. This is a different kind of manifestation than I was talking about which one gets from yoga. Now how would he have gotten this? Curious, I don't understand.
Please look online for similar experiences from others to compare. While this may or may not be kundalini, this may not have been of God either. The confusing thing is that Benny Hinn does at times give a bona fide preaching of the Gospel. However, the majority of his ‘services’ are all about Benny Hinn and how HE is the healer and HE is the one who his adherents are to give their money to (so he can literally jet around the globe and live his lavish lifestyle).
Personally, I would not want anyone who claims a ‘healing anointing’ from the grave of another to ‘heal’ me! There is only ONE true anointing and that is the Holy Spirit as in 1 John 2:20-25. Verse 22 defines an antichrist as one who denies Jesus is the Christ. Hinn has claimed over and over that he is a Christ (as have many others on TBN, etc.) and that we are all Christs (much like New Agers who claim we have ‘Christ Consciousness’). This is tantamount to denying Jesus as THE Christ – the one and only Christ/Messiah.
I tend to agree with Constance that the ten toes are leaders of the revived Roman Empire, which is becoming more and more of a reality with each day. The EU and the Med. Union combined- are almost identical geographically to the ancient Roman Empire. The ten toes of the colossus in Daniel would indicate that these kings are an extension of the Roman Empire. Five from the Western leg (the EU) and five from the eastern leg (the Mediterranean Union)The toes we are told are mixed with common clay, Daniel gives us the interpretation of the clay- the seed of men. So these 10 rulers will join forces with the common man, perhaps the rest of the world?? Or just Israel??But they will not adhere to one another. The Iron is by extension a part of the Ancient Roman empire.
All the nations of Daniel's colossus ruled the area surrounding the Mediterranean sea, including Israel. IMO this will be true of the final kingdom as well and they will give their Authority to the beast (Antichrist)
"Revelation 17:12-18
12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.
13 “These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.
14 “These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”
15 And he said to me, “The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.
16 “And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.
17 “For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled.
18 “The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.” "
The Harlot IMO is Jerusalem- which is clearly the case in the Old Testament, though I would not be dogmatic on this point.
Who these ten kings are or who they will be? Your guess is as good as mine.
RT
CAREFULLY READ AND NOTE THE FOLLOWING:
"Mr Barroso said that as soon as the treaty is ready he would "be ready to form a new commission." But both the current commission's term as well as the current EU foreign policy chief's term can be extended if needed, said Mr Reinfeldt.
"It [the commission's mandate] can be prolonged after 1 November. It has happened on earlier occasions. One should also keep in mind that the high representative, who we have for the time being, [Javier] Solana, has a mandate that expires on 17 October. So also in his case there could be a continuation."
Pasted from http://euobserver.com/9/28773
10/6/2009, 1:39 PM
My educated guess is that the 10 kings are the 10 WEU countries.
Constance
I would buy a used car neither from Hank Hanegraff nor from Benny Hinn.
Constance
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8291187.stm
Citizen patrols hit Italy streets
If I'm not mistaken, I believe I saw a story about patrols like this in Britain also. I wonder what is really going on.
Dorothy
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8291187.stm
Citizen patrols hit Italy streets
If I'm not mistaken, I believe I saw a story about patrols like this in Britain also. I wonder what is really going on.
Dorothy
WOW -- I just looked at the Italian uniformed citizens patrol and it looks disturbingly familiar to me -- like pre-World War II footage of Germany and Italy.
Even Mussolini was not as overtly anti-Jewish as that woman is!
SCARY!
Constance
the citizen patrol in Italy is very scarey.
I was invited once to a church service and told the man preaching taught about finaces. My sister and I went and I immediately got a funny feeling when I sat down. This "preacher" began to tell people he needed them to "testify" about what God had been doing in the services that week. Every sinlgle person who stood up and he touched couldn't talk. All they could do was laugh. They'd fall over laughing and not one person could tell one thing God had done. He began walking around touching people and they'd all fall over laughing. I began to pray and asked God to please let me and my sister be invisable to him IF this wasn't of God. As he came to our seats, he touched the woman to my left, skipped me and my sister and touched the lady to our right. It was just like we were invisable to him, he never even looked at us. That was all I needed. As soon as he was down the aisle we got up and left.
I think I might be missing something! What makes the Italian groups any different to the Guardian Angels and their offshoot Cyber Angels?
http://www.guardianangels.org/
http://www.cyberangels.org/about.php
~K~
This is my first time actually posting here, and I'm afraid it's going to be a little bit off topic, but I'd like your educated and spiritually mature opinions. I've been lurking here for a long time and enjoy My Perspective usually every tuesday and thursday.
Anyway, I was at a buddy's house last night; we were just drinking some beer and having some good conversation when this commercial came on TV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnQnkpI35rU
No one really payed attention, and those that were thought it was either fake, or really cool. I alone stopped in my tracks and was kind of disturbed. Am i overreacting, or is this going to get kids more used to the prospect of demonically influenced occultism and witchcraft? It could just be technology evolving and being harnessed in a creative way for a cool game. Completely harmless. But I am 21 years old and this gave me a little bit of a scare. What do you guys think?
I apologize ahead of time if this gets long.
At the UN, the Obama administration backs limits on free speech
The Obama administration has marked its first foray into the UN human rights establishment by backing calls for limits on freedom of expression. The newly-minted American policy was rolled out at the latest session of the UN Human Rights Council, which ended in Geneva on Friday. American diplomats were there for the first time as full Council members and intent on making friends.
President Obama chose to join the Council despite the fact that the Organization of the Islamic Conference holds the balance of power and human rights abusers are among its lead actors, including China, Cuba, and Saudi Arabia. Islamic states quickly interpreted the president's penchant for "engagement" as meaning fundamental rights were now up for grabs. Few would have predicted, however, that the shift would begin with America's most treasured freedom.
For more than a decade, a UN resolution on the freedom of expression was shepherded through the Council, and the now defunct Commission on Human Rights which it replaced, by Canada. Over the years, Canada tried mightily to garner consensus on certain minimum standards, but the "reformed" Council changed the distribution of seats on the UN's lead human rights body. In 2008, against the backdrop of the publication of images of Mohammed in a Danish newspaper, Cuba and various Islamic countries destroyed the consensus and rammed through an amendment which introduced a limit on any speech they claimed was an "abuse . . . [that] constitutes an act of racial or religious discrimination."
The Obama administration decided that a revamped
freedom of expression resolution, extracted from Canadian hands, would be an ideal emblem for its new engagement policy. So it cosponsored a resolution on the subject with none other than Egypt--a country characterized by an absence of freedom of expression.
Privately, other Western governments were taken aback and watched the weeks of negotiations with dismay as it became clear that American negotiators wanted consensus at all costs. In introducing the resolution on Thursday, October 1--adopted by consensus the following day--the ranking U.S. diplomat, Chargé d'Affaires Douglas Griffiths, crowed:
"The United States is very pleased to present this joint project with Egypt. This initiative is a manifestation of the Obama administration's commitment to multilateral engagement throughout the United Nations and of our genuine desire to seek and build cooperation based upon mutual interest and mutual respect in pursuit of our shared common principles of tolerance and the dignity of all human beings."
His Egyptian counterpart, Ambassador Hisham Badr, was equally pleased--for all the wrong reasons. He praised the development by telling the Council that "freedom of expression . . . has been sometimes misused," insisting on limits consistent with the "true nature of this right" and demanding that the "the media must . . . conduct . . . itself in a professional and ethical manner."
The new resolution, championed by the Obama administration, has a number of disturbing elements. It emphasizes that "the exercise of the right to freedom of expression carries with it special duties and responsibilities . . ." which include taking action against anything meeting the description of "negative racial and religious stereotyping." It also purports to "recognize . . . the moral and social responsibilities of the media" and supports "the media's elaboration of voluntary codes of professional ethical conduct" in relation to "combating racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance."
more at link
http://tinyurl.com/ycdz4ma
Here's a link to an article which has the resoloution in a link.
http://tinyurl.com/yb2wax8
The resolution reads like it came off a desk at the AOC.
CONSTANCE - is there a problem with tonight's radio show?
It seems very quiet in Chat Room and I'm sure this might be a repeat show???
~K~
Well, this is something interesting I came across while searching for the latest on the upcoming 3rd temple (in whatever architectural form it takes).
I'm searching scriptures to see if this is Biblically-based. Of course, the serpent in the wilderness story is true--I wasn't questioning that--just if this can truthfully be applied to diseases.
Then, the *lightbulb* moment came when I though of the upcoming H1N1 vaccine, and how some other posters here noted links which noted the similarity to a needle and a snake's fangs. This is not touted as being a cure for H1N1, though.
Curious...
http://tinyurl.com/yakokbq
or
http://www.3rdtemplebill.org/alternativehivtreatment.htm
My intial reaction to the Ireland vote here: http://wp.me/p8N6Q-aD
Really feel setting things in place, and as each piece falls into place, it means Jesus is nearer. Worthy is the lamb. While it is sad to see the suffering that will come and is here, it does mean Jesus return is nearer.
All intersted parties--
http://www.hallindsey.com/
Click on the October 2nd broadcast video to see portions of Binyamin Netanyahu's courage and truthfulness when addressing the UN recently.
Oh, and the parade of dictators that starts off the video is priceless (in a stomach-turning kind of way).
Never have I seen such a physical manifestation of the word, "hypocrisy."
Unfortunately, the word, "evil" also comes to mind--the antidote to that being the words of Psalm 1.
Anon @ 9:14:
I had no idea that some proponents of building the 3rd Temple were able to get a website listing @ UNESCO!
The purpose of People for a Bill to Build the Bet HaMikdash (PBBB), is to gain political approval, in Israel, for the building of the Jewish Temple in it's proper place, even if this requires passing a bill in the Knesset.(Note: It is the intention of this bill to build the Third Temple on the location of the earlier Temples, but not to move or destroy the Al Aksa Mosque or to prevent Muslims from praying on the Temple Mount.
......................
Getting A Building Permit to Build the Third Temple
1) Completing the Creation of the Architectural Plans for the Third Temple
2) Taking the Plans to The Jerusalem Building Commission and Requesting a Building Permit
3) Requesting Permission From the Building Commission to Undertake an Initial Limited Non-Invasive Exploration on the Temple Mount To Determine the Exact Location of the Third Temple
4) Calling for Committee Hearings With the City, The Waqf, the Building Committee, and UNESCO as Needed
5) Protection of the Al Aksa Mosque and the Right of Moslems to Pray on the Temple Mount
6) Movement of the Dome of the Rock 200 yards to the Northwest part of the Temple Mount
7) Movement of other structures on top of the Jewish Temple location with the help of professionals in antiquities, and big building movers
8) Establishment of blimp tours, which are impervious to "death uncleanliness," (Tumas Mas), and which will take tourists close the place where Mohammad rose to Heaven
Here's the weblink @ UNESCO:
http://tinyurl.com/ycbd7hj
The mind flex game - if you can call it that - is but an off shoot of a much larger project -
try this link where the outcome is to communicate with thought using same process - basically - as the mind flex game -
And yes - it is a bit freaky and I would not participate in the activity myself -
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091006102637.htm
There may be no difference between the Italian patrols and Curtis Sleezwa's (Sliwa) "Guardian Angels." The Guardian Angels were clearly a NEW AGE operation and did tremendous damage in many areas. They were put out of their Detroit area church headquarters (St. Rita) after it was discovered they were being led in occult chanting. The local director said it should stop because it was not part of their approved training. Within the hour, Curtis Sliwa phoned and fired the local director for removing the occult chanter trainer. The formerly liberal priest at St. Rita's had received a call from a colleague of mine (Tom Quasarano) who was concerned about this direction. Curtis Sliwa and the Guardian Angels were the cover story on a 1981 or 1982 NEW AGE Magazine. The entire Detroit chapter resigned at which point Curtis Sliwa ORDERED out of state Guardian Angels to get to Detroit by ANY MEANS NECESSARY and take their posts. There was a criminal trial in Detroit in which the replacement Guardian Angels falsely accused a landlord who ordered them off his property. They were protecting prostitution and drug trafficking. The attorney who defended the accused landlord successfully was Duncan Szymanski. The Guardian Angels were an extremely dangerous group and were given training techniques such as ways to put eyes out. They were a planned NEW AGE regiment for what the New Agers then hoped might be finalized in 1982. That ended their then career in Detroit. Three Detroit City Council members had me come down and brief their staffs about the New Age Movement and the Guardian Angels.
Indeed, it may be the same thing -- neither was harmless!
CONSTANCE
I once debated Lisa Sliwa and her local Guardian Angels on a Portland, Oregon television program. That was in 1982.
Constance
Curtis Sliwa is discussed in my first book THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW. You may download it for free by clicking on the link "PRESENTATIONS FOR DOWNLOADING."
Constance
Craig and others, I am not here to defend Benny Hinn or his brother, but simply to describe what happened as objectively as I can.
I did have a permanent healing of my right eye at Henry Hinn's service in his church in British Columbia. It was, of course, the Lord who healed me, not Henry. In fact, Henry looked at me sort of funny after this happened and was not really anxious to have me testify about it. I had had a serious neuro condition in my eye for 8 years and it was healed in a second, and it has never returned after many years. The doctor has before and after pictures of the droop in my eye lid, which was so bad that Medicare would have paid for reconstruction.
But nevertheless, this DID occur while I prayed at Henry Hinn's church service. Henry is not Benny, they are two separate people.
But Henry and Benny are closely intertwined and their daughters married brothers, who were also in the Greek tradition from their "homeland."
When I had kundalini problems they did not involve laughing or falling down, although shaking did occur. It was far from "funny"! It was an incredibly horrible experience which no one would find worth a "laugh". I do not think what these pentecostal "laughing" pastors do has much to do with kundalini, although I do advise against the pursuit of either one. Either one unbalances the body and mind.
Through this experience I had, I know a LOT about kundalini and even how one can balance it after a disaster, which I did; I have never had another kundalini episode after my healing decades ago. My healing did not come at the hands of any Christian pastor or any doctor; it came because of research with occult people who knew how to cure it and were decent enough to do so instead of exploiting it.
I pray all the time for those who helped me, for their salvation, because they were good people no matter what one calls them. They were there to help. And i have helped others subsequently with what I learned.
No head in the sand here.
Mariel
Mariel,
I have severe Rheumatoid Arthritis and if the Devil himself offered to heal me, I would refuse.
I would rather suffer than receive occult demonic relief.
Christ refused Satan's challenge to turn the stones into bread to relieve His hunger and this Christ could have legitimately done.
Satan also offered Christ the kingdom of this world if He would bow down and worship him. This was Satan's to offer, but Christ refused because He knew that His present suffering was worth it for what was to come in the future.
Satan is very good at using the pain of suffering to bring people into his kingdom. Humans will agree to most anything to stop pain. Satan knows this very well. Only God's grace accessed by faith can give man the strength to refuse the legitimate relief that Satan offers. Satan is the source of our physical suffering, but God allows this suffering so that our faith will be proved genuine.
I am amazed that you admit that you received demonic healing. What a sign of the times.
Also I see this common theme. Most people, pagans especially, but also professing Christians, think that mankind is basically good. This is a lie, apart from Christ, all of our righteousness is as filthy rags. (Read Romans 3) There is nothing good in man, that is precisely why we need a Savior.
Valerie
JD, I agree with you that it's an important story. I found it earlier and sent it out to my mailing list as well as posting it at Israel Forum. Constance asked if I would post it here, but I told her I believed it was important enough to be a lead story rather than in the comments section.
I follow your recommendation that others do not ignore the story.
Rich Peterson will be doing another story, and he may include that information in it.
Dorothy
Dorothy,
Thanks, I was astonished at how blatant this was, yet has received very little attention. I look forward to hearing Rich's take on the resoloution, as he seems to have a way of boiling things down to the meat and potatoes. I would also like to see Constance post a thread about this. This has the AoC all over it, which should be a stern warning to us all as to where we are headed.
From Associated Press (10/07/09)
Africa bishops speak of Obama in religious terms
VATICAN CITY (AP) - African bishops attending a Vatican meeting are speaking about the election of Barack Obama in divine terms—putting them very much at odds with many of their U.S. counterparts.
Archbishop Gabriel Charles Palmer-Buckle of Accra, Ghana said Wednesday that there was "a divine plan behind" Obama's election.
"It's like the biblical story repeating itself," he told reporters, citing the Old Testament figure Joseph, who after being sold into slavery in Egypt ends up becoming a top official.
"We believe God has his own plans. God directs history," he said of the U.S. election. "We pray that it (Obama's presidency) brings blessings for Africa and the whole world."
He acknowledged that Obama has earned the wrath of many conservative American bishops because of his support for abortion rights. Earlier this year, dozens of U.S. bishops denounced the leading U.S. Catholic university, Notre Dame, for giving Obama an honorary degree.
"We are definitely aware of it," Palmer-Buckle said. "But we feel it our duty to meet him and find out what are the things that unite us more than divide us."
Earlier this week, the Ghanian prelate leading the three-week meeting on the Church in Africa, Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson of Cape Coast, Ghana, cited Obama's election in saying he didn't see any reason why there couldn't now be a black pope.
And the archbishop of Kinshasa, Congo, Monsignor Laurent Monsengwo Pasinya, told the formal synod itself that it would be wise to not ignore what he called a "primordial event" in recent times.
"If the election of a black as head of the United States of America was a divine sign and a sign from the Holy Spirit for the reconciliation of races and ethnic groups for peaceful relations ... this synod and the universal church would gain from not ignoring this primordial event of contemporary history which is far from being a banal game of political alliances," he said in his speech.
Archbishop John Onaiyekan of Abuja, Nigeria gave more tangible reasons for praise in meeting with reporters.
"Obama has the authority to talk straight to our bad leaders and tell them they are messing up our countries," he said. Besides, he added, "In Africa we are always happy when our brother is big."
Here's another interesting person to keep an eye on:
Guido Westerwelle
Constance
Valerie, I am amazed that you think I received demonic healing. It must be your terrible suffering which makes you think such a thing.
I too am still sick. I have two rare blood diseases, one at least of them genetic from the 12th century, possibly from Templar associations, the other of unknown cause, but could be a Jewish genetic link. I have received demonic illness, in other words, not demonic healing.
When I was at Henry or Benny Hinn's, I did not think they were demonic. At this time I think they have strong imperfections which are present in most preachers, that few of us, and especially preachers, are free of these demonic influences which we have to fight daily. Does that correspond to your "filthy rags"? Yes, we people are filthy rags, as are our works, but I believe God created in us good things too, or He would not even be interested in us. Why would He send His son to die for those who were or did nothing but filthy rags?
It is unkind to say I "received", in other words deliberately entertained, "demonic healing." At the time I went to Benny and Henry,
I had already jetisoned the New Age and given up "kundalini" and all the rest of that stuff. I had no interest in demonic healing.
I too suffer daily and am not healed, and if I had a pact with Beelzebub maybe I would be, you are implying?
Well it is the lot of man to suffer and die. But I WAS temporarily under the influence of that wing of the Evangelical church which proclaims that we can be healed through prayer. I now realize that we CAN be healed by prayer but it is all in God's selection of what is good or bad for us.
I have no demonic healings in MY life.
How little we understand one another.
Mariel
Mariel
Please explain
"My healing did not come at the hands of any Christian pastor or any doctor; it came because of research with occult people who knew how to cure it and were decent enough to do so instead of exploiting it. "
What did I misunderstand in this statement?
Valerie
Valerie, using the word "occult" in my statements was probably not too precise. I was actually feeling a lot of pain and anxiety about a big decision I have to make on chemotherapy--I am under terrible stress without anyone to help other than the Lord. So I grabbed an all-purpose word to describe the people who helped me.
The persons I am referring to were an eastern "guru," Swami Satchidananda, who had dealt with the problem I had extensively. The other persons were some teachers at a New Age "healing" institute, whom some people would call "occult", others would call mild-mannered helpful but non-Christian women. None of them the rapacious people who use us as victims to exploit, such as the people at Esalen and other New Age institutes.
At the time I received healing from these two sources, plus my own very very extensive reading on the subject, I was not yet out of the New Age. I was a victim of it, but was still trying any way I could to survive. My son was only 14, and I wanted very much to survive. Physicians were completely mystified or totally wrong as to why I had the weird symptoms, which prevented me from eating, sleeping, and leaving the house. I was not yet returned to the Body of Christ.
I was just trying to survive.
Not long after I emerged from this condition, I decided never again to be involved in such things which caused this problem, and I never again was involved in the slightest way. I threw away all esoteric pictures, cut to pieces all books with instructions or comments on esoteric things. I left my New Age leaning church,and was soon followed in this by my husband, thus leaving almost all of our friends.
I am trying to think of a less loaded word than "occult" to describe the people who helped me.
Perhaps I should just describe them as people who knew what kundalini is and how to counteract it if it got out of hand....but that's a fist full of words.
I was NOT a Christian at the time I sought relief from the results of kundalini. Although I believed in God at all times before, during, and after this experience, not having succumbed to the New Age instructions to jetison the Creator God. His guidance, as I had not abandoned Him, may have led me to what saved my life. For I WAS close to being destroyed.
Mariel
Mariel,
I will pray for you. You are still deceived and you have confirmed my first post.
Thanks for clarifying your position.
Has anyone ever shared the Gospel with you?
If so, what is the Gospel?
If not, would you like to know?
Valerie
Valerie, you suffer from the sin of price, or arrogance. Has anyone ever shared with you what Christ had to say about this?
I have had many very fine people share the gospel with me. For you to assume I have not Christ is, I repeat, pride.
My understanding of the gospel is no doubt the same as yours. You and I simply have had different experiences before we met Christ.
You possibly were raised in an evangelical church, but I had never been into one until after the age of 50. I come from a different background than you do, I think. My thinking is influenced by Catholic thought, even though I am not presently a practicing Catholic. Possibly you think that anyone who is a Catholic is also demon-inspired. Nothing one can say to counteract that.
Your mind is possibly not working too well because of the terrible drugs you probably take for Rheumatoid arthritis. Indeed, prescription drugs are one of the chief sources of Pharmacopoeia, or what the KHV translates Sorcery.
It is one reason I don't want to take Chemo, and may choose not to, so that I can go out with my mind intact.
Mariel
Mariel
Dear Mariel and Valerie:
People who are in the New Age Movement have had their heads played with -- BIG TIME. Jesus said, "I have much to tell you, but you couldn't bear it all right now . . ."
If even Jesus had to use restraint to keep from overwhelming his disciples with discouragement, who am I to dump everything on everybody now. Lord knows this stuff gets me down.
The New Age Movement can take MANY forms. Also, we need to be kind and gentle with people coming out of it unless we learn they are in reality proselytizing people to New Age beliefs using the cover of faked Christianity.
I believe Mariel's Christianity is very real. I also believe that there is still some New Age confusion lurking there.
Very often, I've talked with repentant former New Agers and then heard something slip in that was clearly New Age in and of itself. I sometimes felt that if I said one more word I would overwhelm them with discouragement. I would silently go "Lord, please forgive them for that one."
Very often, and encouraging to me was that so very often the next time I saw that person, they would tell me the problem with what they had last proclaimed to me without me bringing it up. I consider that nothing less than a miracle.
We are all struggling through this together. I am grateful to Jesus Christ for providing us a safe way out.
Constance
We are all struggling through this together. I am grateful to Jesus Christ for providing us a safe way out.
Amen to that! While I've never been into the New Age stuff overtly I was at least somewhat influenced by it before I came to Christ. However, I had my own struggles being in the world for almost 40 years. At times former thinking and impulses still come out to my dismay as I'm still growing. And, I've a LONG way to go.
Thankfully, I do know that I'm being sanctified -- even if it seems to be at a snail's pace.
Interestingly, I had someone (a fellow Christian) come to me with a question and wanted me to give a Biblical perspective on it and not my own opinion. I proceeded; but, yet it seemed she was still not convinced. I continued; but, I began to repeat the same things with her repeating her same rebuttals. I finally let it go putting it in God's hands.
Well, later that night she sent me an email which contained a daily devotional which contained one of the scriptures I quoted to her. The context of the devotional as I saw it had NOTHING to do with our conversation yet she understood as confirming what I had said and thanked me for it. God's ways are not our ways; and He works differently in each individual's life.
Regarding kundalini:
I don't recall if I've posted this here; so, I apologize in advance if I have.
Being a jazz music fan, I recognize Keith Jarrett as the phenomenally gifted pianist he is. In the 1970s, he used Kundalini Music as one of his publishing companies. In the late '90s he was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome resulting in him not being able to get out of bed for quite a while. It took him quite a while to get to where he was able to practice and then years before he could perform again.
I found out quite by accident that there is a correlation between CFS and "kundalini illness."
http://www.elcollie.com/html/Issue30.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/ybbelz4
Interesting...
Thanks for the Christ-like response from both Mariel and Constance.
Pearls ....
If someone slaps you in the face you bear with that, but not the truth.
Valerie
I don't quite know how to take the last comment from Valerie who is clearly a valued contributor to this board, as is Mariel. TRUTH is what we should be seeking here. I fully agree that there is no room for compromise with "Kundalini", yoga, etc. I also believe in a tactful presentation. Valerie is right that it is error. Mariel's feelings are hurt. I understand that too.
Being as susceptible to depression as I am, I sometimes have to have facts in gentle doses. I rather suspect that much of the human population may be similar.
Constance
I must tell all that I personally met Benny Hinn back on September 23, 1983 and I WAS NOT IMPRESSED. His big pre-occupation was stopping by a Kansas City shopping center which had a large department store to purchase his much desired Aramis Cologne. Upon seeing the women faint, I wonder, "is it him, or is it THE ARAMIS?"
Constance
This from Huffington Post:
"newsweek.com:
Germany is getting a new foreign minister. Cabinet officials come and go in Europe's democracies, but this is different: Guido Westerwelle, the leader of the German Free Democratic Party, will become the first openly gay foreign minister in the world. The prevalence of openly gay politicians in Europe is hardly big news: Iceland's prime minister, Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir, is the world's first openly gay head of state; the mayors of Paris and Berlin are also out of the closet. And yes, it's a milestone that this could occur in Germany, a nation that only 70 years ago attempted to exterminate homosexuals. But the truly significant thing about Westerwelle's new job is not what it means for Europe's economic powerhouse already a country very tolerant of gays but what it means for the rest of the world.
Read the whole story: newsweek.com
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/03/guido-westerwelle-germany_0_n_308789.html"
Speaking of the Hinns:
Here's a story:
A guy I used to know -- I'll call him Joe -- is quite gifted musically. About 15 or 20 years ago, the Hinns made the circuit here in San Antonio. Joe was performing in the "worship" [I put this in quotes as I see more than just music as worship] at a local church when Benny came up to him later and said (I'll have to paraphrase), "God told me you are to join my music ministry." To which Joe responded, "As soon as God tells me, I'll join you."
The next day Henry came up to Joe and said basically the same thing, "God told me you are to join my music ministry." Joe responded, "I'll tell you the same thing I told your brother. As soon as God tell's me, I'll join you."
To date, Joe has not joined either "ministry."
Javier SOLANA,
EU High Representative for the CFSP,
calls for restraint in East Jerusalem
Javier SOLANA, EU High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP),
issued the following statement today voicing concern about the recent clashes in East Jerusalem
http://tinyurl.com/ycquvcx
urging all parties to show restraint in East Jerusalem:
"I am very concerned about the recent clashes in East Jerusalem. I have been closely following the
situation around the Al Aqsa mosque in recent days. I would like to urge all parties to refrain from
provocative actions that could further inflame tensions or lead to violence. Everyone must take
action to avoid escalation. Our continued priority remains the re-launching credible negotiations in
an atmosphere conducive to their success."
"The Weekly Standard" (10/05/09)
You Can't Say That At the UN, the Obama administration backs limits on free speech.
The Obama administration has marked its first foray into the UN human rights establishment by backing calls for limits on freedom of expression. The newly-minted American policy was rolled out at the latest session of the UN Human Rights Council, which ended in Geneva on Friday. American diplomats were there for the first time as full Council members and intent on making friends.
President Obama chose to join the Council despite the fact that the Organization of the Islamic Conference holds the balance of power and human rights abusers are among its lead actors, including China, Cuba, and Saudi Arabia. Islamic states quickly interpreted the president's penchant for "engagement" as meaning fundamental rights were now up for grabs. Few would have predicted, however, that the shift would begin with America's most treasured freedom.
For more than a decade, a UN resolution on the freedom of expression was shepherded through the Council, and the now defunct Commission on Human Rights which it replaced, by Canada. Over the years, Canada tried mightily to garner consensus on certain minimum standards, but the "reformed" Council changed the distribution of seats on the UN's lead human rights body. In 2008, against the backdrop of the publication of images of Mohammed in a Danish newspaper, Cuba and various Islamic countries destroyed the consensus and rammed through an amendment which introduced a limit on any speech they claimed was an "abuse . . . [that] constitutes an act of racial or religious discrimination."
The Obama administration decided that a revamped freedom of expression resolution, extracted from Canadian hands, would be an ideal emblem for its new engagement policy. So it cosponsored a resolution on the subject with none other than Egypt--a country characterized by an absence of freedom of expression.
Privately, other Western governments were taken aback and watched the weeks of negotiations with dismay as it became clear that American negotiators wanted consensus at all costs. In introducing the resolution on Thursday, October 1--adopted by consensus the following day--the ranking U.S. diplomat, Chargé d'Affaires Douglas Griffiths, crowed:
"The United States is very pleased to present this joint project with Egypt. This initiative is a manifestation of the Obama administration's commitment to multilateral engagement throughout the United Nations and of our genuine desire to seek and build cooperation based upon mutual interest and mutual respect in pursuit of our shared common principles of tolerance and the dignity of all human beings."
His Egyptian counterpart, Ambassador Hisham Badr, was equally pleased--for all the wrong reasons. He praised the development by telling the Council that "freedom of expression . . . has been sometimes misused," insisting on limits consistent with the "true nature of this right" and demanding that the "the media must . . . conduct . . . itself in a professional and ethical manner."
(Continued . . .)
The new resolution, championed by the Obama administration, has a number of disturbing elements. It emphasizes that "the exercise of the right to freedom of expression carries with it special duties and responsibilities . . ." which include taking action against anything meeting the description of "negative racial and religious stereotyping." It also purports to "recognize . . . the moral and social responsibilities of the media" and supports "the media's elaboration of voluntary codes of professional ethical conduct" in relation to "combating racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance."
Pakistan's Ambassador Zamir Akram, speaking on behalf of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, made it clear that they understand the resolution and its protection against religious stereotyping as allowing free speech to be trumped by anything that defames or negatively stereotypes religion. The idea of protecting the human rights "of religions" instead of individuals is a favorite of those countries that do not protect free speech and which use religion--as defined by government--to curtail it.
Even the normally feeble European Union tried to salvage the American capitulation by expressing the hope that the resolution might be read a different way. Speaking on behalf of the EU following the resolution's adoption, French Ambassador Jean-Baptiste Mattéi declared that "human rights law does not, and should not, protect religions or belief systems, hence the language on stereotyping only applies to stereotyping of individuals . . . and not of ideologies, religions or abstract values. The EU rejects the concept of defamation of religions." The EU also distanced itself from the American compromise on the media, declaring that "the notion of a moral and social responsibility of the media" goes "well beyond" existing international law and "the EU cannot subscribe to this concept in such general terms."
In 1992 when the United States ratified the main international law treaty which addresses freedom of expression, the government carefully attached reservations to ensure that the treaty could not "restrict the right of free speech and association protected by the Constitution and laws of the United States."
The Obama administration's debut at the Human Rights Council laid bare its very different priorities. Threatening freedom of expression is a price for engagement with the Islamic world that it is evidently prepared to pay.
And, also, it looks like Solana has started a new website. Lots of activity for such a "retiring" gentleman:
"Brussels, 6 October 2009
S223/09
Launch of the ESDP Webzine
The ESDP Webzine is launched today. This is an interactive webpage that highlights key
achievements in the field of the European Security and Defence Policy (ESDP) over the past ten
years.
With compelling photo, text and video material, this on-line portfolio provides a unique insight into
the work of the main actors of ESDP, both at institutional level and on the ground in EU crisis
management missions and operations over the globe.
Commenting on the activation of the ESDP Webzine, Mr Solana, EU High Representative for the
Common Foreign and Security Policy, underlined how much the EU had evolved in just one decade
and the high level of international respect and credibility it had gained. He said: "The EU's role in
the world has changed dramatically over the past ten years. It has become a global provider of
security. There is a demand for more and more Europe in the world and we need to carry on
developing better tools and instruments to respond to that demand. Once the Lisbon Treaty is
implemented, we will be able to work more efficiently. In the field of crisis management, this also
means better combining our civilian and military capabilities. "
The ESDP Webzine is now accessible at www.esdp10years.eu
http://tinyurl.com/ycdt3rr
Yes there are civilian security patrols in England now. Sliwa's group is in 11 countries and 100 cities.
http://tinyurl.com/y86al2x More on the Guardian Angels.
When I first read the Cumbey material on the group, I thought she must be wrong. Now I would like to know where they got the funding to go international and why they went international after not doing much here in the last 30 years except organizing. I also wonder if this has anything to do with Obama's planned Civilian Security Patrols. It's a concern because of all of the people who surrounded him prior to the presidency and those who he hired to act as his czars. All speculation I know, but I was unable to find more information when doing a quick search.
My family has been sick. So I didn't check to see if this had already been posted.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9B6AQ5O0&show_article=1
or
http://tiny.cc/1tMfN
They are bragging over at the Institute of Noetic Sciences site about their massive inclusion as part of Dan Brown's new novel:
http://www.noetic.org/about/godeeper.cfm
Their concept of "Noetic Science" is just a fancy word for DEMONIC POSSESSION and/or MASS HYPNOSIS.
Constance
Some very excellent information on details of the New Age Movement and many of its major players over at
www.inplainsite.org. A woman named Carol Brooks appears to have the site. I don't know if I've ever met her, but the site, which I just discovered tonight is very well done.
Constance
Those Guardian Angels never made a dent in inner city crime. They're a bunch of self satisfied pinheads
as far as I could tell, with their little red berets.
What a stupid idea; no real clout, no real training or
authority to do anything in an emergency, just a
psuedo militia of kids posing as protection, which
turns out to be more of a PROTECTION RACKET.
They're the equivalent of a graffiti wall where vandals
can legally spray away and not get busted doing what would otherwise be illegal.
Valerie and Mariel,
Some people put their faith in the healing power of crystals or shamans, rituals or prayers, or in a black garbed "priest" or some other personage esteemed as having spiritual authority. Sometimes faith is placed in God alone. And many times, despite all our requests, ceremonies, and petitions, healing is not forthcoming. Sometimes it is. Viola, it's a MIRACLE! And the credit is given to whatever object our "faith" was placed.
Our adversary the devil roams about looking for prey. He uses any means available to deceive, including inflicting someone with an illness or calamity, then using a supposed "miracle" to heal or "rescue" them. The devil wants followers, yet doesn't follow any rules himself. Only God can put limits on Satan. The book of Job teaches that our attempt to explain what is going on behind the scenes is often an affront, not only to the person we are trying to "correct" or advise, but to God himself. We just don't have perfect vision.
But the lesson of Job is clearly spelled out for us. Regardless of how blessed we are, or how dire our circumstances become, we must choose whom we will serve THIS DAY, every day.
Mariel, as you serve God this day, I pray you continue to renounce those things of the past. They have no sway over you anymore. It was God alone who was willing to release the chains, don't let the devil take any credit. If the devil did let you go, it was because God said, "you are mine".
People who were closest to the fire often have a heightened sensitivity to heat. My own guard is almost always up. I must be diligent everyday to make sure my own shackles remain broken and in pieces on the prison floor. Those chains might still fit around my ankle if my foot were to slip.
To: OMOTS
1 Corinthians 15:17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
Only faith in the blood of Christ which has the power to atone for sin will count on judgement day.
Now to give credit where credit is due, if you do not claim to be a Christian, then it is understandable that you do not accept this truth.
Bodily healing cannot be equated with the salvation of the soul.
I don't have a problem with other people differing in points of view. But I do take issue when it is called Christian when it clearly is not.
Valerie
Constance,
The theology expressed at www.inplansite.org seems to be a form of radical Arminianism or Pelagianism. I would be a little leary of this site.
Thanks for the advice. I saw things I did not agree with at site HOWEVER, the information on the New Age Movement was wonderfully detailed and as far as I can currently discern -- accurate.
Constance
"Once the Lisbon Treaty is
implemented, we will be able to work more efficiently. In the field of crisis management, this also means better combining our civilian and military capabilities."
Combine this with the story on the National Guard groups in Italy and also Britain.
I'd just feel more secure if there was a lot more information out on civilian security patrols around the world and who they reported to.
Dorothy
Constance - thank you for the info on the Guardian Angels.
~K~
"I'd just feel more secure if there was a lot more information out on civilian security patrols around the world and who they reported to."
That would be an extremely important thing to know - who the "real deal" is regarding these private police forces who seem to be - at least in 1 well publicized case - entering the area in place of the established - or tax funded- police force.
This should be an alarming situation - at best. I do not understand (I know, why are you so surprised - look at what else id being taken) the silence , even from the persons who live within the city, town, county - or even the state for that matter.
It is more than Xe or Haliburton.
If the youth corp goes, well the new army available to the ogilarchy be used in such a manner?
DouginMI
This is taken from an article about Hardin Montana written by Katie Landan
The latest twist: The owner of APF(American Police Force ), Michael Hilton, is a convicted felon, including two convictions in grand theft cases, and an alleged con-artist who, according to some sources, utilizes more than 20 aliases.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,562600,00.html
DouginMI
Valerie,
"IF Christ has not been raised..... YOUR faith is worthless...."
Paul was speaking to the brethern. He was exhorting them that all they do, say, and believe, hinges on the FACT of Christ's resurrection. If all that Paul was telling them wasn't the "gospel truth", then they were all fools (including Paul) for believing a myth.
I do not equate bodily healing with salvation. In fact, what I wrote previously indicates just the opposite, that people are often cured of various maladies and prayers are seemingly answered, (or not), regardless of an individuals demonstration of faith, (or lack thereof).
I don't label anything outside of the service of Christ, "christian". There are many things labeled "christian" that are an abomination unto the Lord, and many so-called"christians" who will be cast away at the judgment seat of God.
Do you have a problem with that?
TONIGHT'S internet radio program at www.themicroeffect.com will feature Yours truly in an intensive and extensive discussion about CURTIS SLIWA and THE GUARDIAN ANGELS.
Shock troops for the New Age? Who is financing why? Their New Age ties and purpose.
Chaos they left in their wakes that I became personally aware of . . .
CONSTANCE
Czech president's new treaty snag.
The Eurosceptic Czech President, Vaclav Klaus, wants a new two-sentence footnote to be added to the EU's Lisbon Treaty before signing it, Sweden says.
Full BBC Report;
http://tinyurl.com/yh2jddf
~K~
Tonight's show sounds good - thanks again Constance.
~K~
My apologies OMOTS,
I see your point, but I took what you said to mean that it did not matter what you put your faith in.
I receive your rebuke.
Thanks,
Valerie
RE CURTIS SLIWA:
He certainly is living rich in a $ 1.9 million dollar apartment. His sister is also a very strange New Ager.
Check this:
Sliwa married Lisa Evers in 1981; they divorced in 1993. (She's now a reporter for Fox 5.) His third wife Mary works as executive director of the Guardian Angels Alliance. They have one son, Anthony, and live in a Carnegie Hill apartment they purchased for $1.9 million in 2006.
Family ties
Sliwa's sister is Aleta St. James, a self-proclaimed healer who uses mystical chanting and African drumming to create "life shifting experiences." She earned headlines in 2004 after giving birth to twins three days before her 57th birthday, making her one of the oldest new mothers in history.
http://cityfile.com/profiles/curtis-sliwa
Constance
Chat room is frightfully empty on THEMICROEFFECT.COM -- going on air right now.
Hope Tuesday night went ok. Rich Caleal's father was posthumously inducted into the Automotive Hall of Fame and the family invited me to join them at the event. He designed the 1949 Ford that reversed the fortunes of Ford MOtor Company.
Constance
Many thanks to Dorothy and the others who did join us in the chatroom.
Constance
New Anti-Christian movie so bad, that even Civil Rights Groups are protesting it.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=17335
Savvy
What puzzles me about this story is that it's about Early Christian persecution of pagans. I think the early Christians did not have the time to persecute people, since they were being persecuted themselves. Why does the historical revisionism continue?
Savvy
All--
For those of you leaving prior comments about Benny Hinn, you might get a chuckle out of this.
I'd recommend looking at the info on the entire site. The author has done a good job of commenting on current events and the Bible.
I think this quick mention of Hinn (and others) is about halway down on the page.
It's a tongue-in-cheek play on his name.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/reasons/Wolves%20in%20sheeps%20clothing.HTM
or
http://tinyurl.com/aefqf
DouginMI-
"The luxury vehicles that rolled through town belonged to the American Police Force (APF), a California-based security firm that is drafting a contract that will give it control over a $27 million medium-security prison that was built in Hardin more than two years ago, but has never held any prisoners...At first, Hardin residents were pleased that APF was planning to turn their empty prison into a training facility. Hardin has a double-digit unemployment rate and is desperate for revitalization, and the area was left high and dry last spring when the federal government decided not to use the facility to harbor Guantanamo Bay detainees."
A $27 million medium-security prison sitting empty... Odd.
~HM
Barack Obama just got the Nobel Peace Prize in recognition of his role as the second coming of the Messsiah. Well not really. He was nominated after two weeks in office as it is assumed only a messiah could do so much in two weeks so as to merit the Nobel Peace Prize.
And now we along with Alice leave Wonderland and go back to the normal world. Maybe it's just so cold in Norway that brains get frozen.
Dorothy
From a website called Fiero Forum, a comment comparing Obama's award to an Oscar award.
"Rather than recognizing concrete achievement, the 2009 prize appeared intended to support initiatives that have yet to bear fruit."
Could you imagine this sort of thing applied elsewhere?!?!?!?!
And the award for the best actor goes to *whover* for some move not filmed yet...
*crowd cheers*
Dorothy
http://www.skepticfiles.org/hacker/cud804.htm
Here's the true story of how the Guardian Angels operated in NYC. "Then we noticed something else.
Call it the merest whiff of sulphur when these Angels were around. For some it was the swastika pin dangling from a few red berets. For
others it was some subway rider who seemed to be treated a little too
roughly by the Angels.....There were only a tiny number of swastika pins and they soon disappeared. Besides, a swastika on a Latin youth wasn't really the same as one on a blond uebermensch, was it? And anyway, hadn't we heard that with the breakdown of the educational system many youth thought the swastika was
just "another Indian good luck symbol." We still saw some Germanic Iron
Cross pins but that was a different culture, militaristic perhaps, maybe
macho. But we already had enough macho from the criminals so having a
little on our side was only fair play...."
The Guardian Angels may have been involved in moving the homeless to Rajnessh's compound.
Long story with many fascinating details.
I just picked up on the fact that Guardianangels.org has an organizational name of Alliance of Guardian Angels. The list of chapters around the world is found at the website There is a branch in Italy.
Dorothy
Valerie at 10:45,
Your post makes good sense to me right up until you end it with "there is nothing good in man". I think that's essentially wrong. God created Adam and Eve and loved them enough to come down to earth and visit with them in the cool of the evening. He created them to love them.
We are in fact essentially good.
God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.
It's the sin that has corrupted us all, that Jesus said
was in the very heart of man, that has finally steered the world to the brink. It's true that every man is sinful and corrupt, but it's also true that mankind is originally pure at heart. It's like a faulty operating system in the computer only much worse.
It's really just a little leaven which has leavened the whole lump.
_I guess the end result is just about as you describe, though.
Just my two devalued cents.
Paul
'Two die' at US spiritual retreat
Two people have been reported dead and about 19 others taken to hospital after being overcome while in a sauna-like room at a spiritual retreat in Arizona.
BBC Full Report;
http://tinyurl.com/e4p29
~K~
Hey Paul,
Thanks for your comments. Could you share any other verses to support that man has some inherent goodness.
This is the way I see it. Man was created good, I agree with you there. But just like pure water can be contaminated by toxins and is no longer pure, so our hearts are corrupted because of sin and what once was not contaiminated by sin, now is, and the only remedy is to receive Christ's righteousness by faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross, not to stop sinning.
Our hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked. Whatever good is in us, it is only because of Christ and does not come from us.
The thing is, man can do things that "look good", but there is none good but God.
Matt 19:16-17: “Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? "So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
While man can do some good works, God is the only one who is intrinsically good. There is none whose nature is good and is perfect in all they do – but God. Only Jesus could keep the commandments perfectly which makes him both good and God. Matt 20:15: “Or is your eye evil because I am good?”
Saying that man has some good or a divine spark of good inside sounds a lot like New Age doctrine.
Blessings,
Valerie
Paul,
Also, God loves us despite our wickedness, not because we deserve it or are good.
Romans 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
The scripture clearly says that Christ died for the ungodly. So we are ungodly which mens that we are not good. How can someone who is an enemy of God be good?
Again it is only the goodness that flows from Christ. If you abide in me and I abide in you, then you will bear fruit. Apart from me you can do nothing. (nothing good or Godly)
I hope this helps.
Valerie
Dear Dorothy 6:33AM,
LOL! ;)
By His Grace,
-SV
Dear Paul,
From one Paul to another:
"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me...O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin." Romans 7:18-20,24,25
"We are in fact essentially good."
You are absolutely right about being created pure of heart in the beginning- for God stated that His creation was good.
Since the fall, all flesh is corrupted by sin and in need of deliverance from "this body of death".
By His Grace,
-SV
More details on the Sedona Sweatbox deaths.
---
Deadly accident at Sedona resort hosted by Oprah guest
SEDONA, AZ -- The man who hosted an Arizona retreat where two people died and several dozen more were injured Thursday is a well-known author and TV personality.
James Ray is a New York Times best selling author who has made appearances on Oprah and Larry King Live.
Full report on ABC;
http://tinyurl.com/yf7d7x5
~K~
Valerie and SV
I think that people are giving the devil too much credit.
On this thread we have a running debate about
"demonic healing?". The devil can't heal anyone.
All good comes from God alone.
The thing about the story of Moses striking the rock and saying something three times, which was not
what God told him to do.. the thing about it was that God brought the water forth anyway, just as he has brought forth healing to people at Benny Hinn meetings. The devil hasn't healed anyone, God in his infinite grace has healed people in spite of their
propensity to try to steal the credit, and their desire to appear to be the healer.
But mankind is essentially good and that's not New Age talk, because I ain't new age.
"...And God made man in his own image"
I believe that image is still there under all the conceit and sin.
The New Age says we can tap into it and become like God. That's the lie. In truth we need redemption, rebirth and reconciliation through Jesus alone.
Here's what I'm wondering; Is God going to bring some flesh and blood humans through the Great Tribulation ?
I mean, I understand that we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye and that we are looking forward to a new body made in the likeness of Jesus' new body, but are there going to be some few people who make it through the Tribulation as humans, and what then ? Will they repopulate the earth ?
I don't know.
Psalm 14:2-3
The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.
Has anyone any information on this guy? It is claimed he is Maitreya. His name is: Rahmat Ahmad Apostikane.
Apparently, his name means Maitreya. He's high up in the sufi branch of Islam. Some say he was born in Pakistan, others in Bergama, (Pergamos) Turkey. Check Revelation 2.
One of my current personal theories is that Barack Obama was handed the Nobel Prize as a CONSOLATION PRIZE for his humiliation on the Olympics 2016 issue last week. He was probably plenty mad and I rather suspect they needed to do something to appease him.
He hardly has done anything yet that I can see that would have justified the Nobel Award.
Constance
Constance
Constance,
Obama's credentials so far include the global funding and push for abortion, and catering to special interests groups, the euthanasia and gay lobby through the back door. Talking his way to impress the Muslim world, and backstabbing Israel at every point.
Savvy
Valerie,
You should reread Genesis 1:26.
You lack understanding of the dignity of the human person infused by the creator.
You should also contemplate the lives of the martyrs. Make it easy and simple. Start with Maximilian Kolbe in Auschwitz.
Your personal scriptural interpretation elevates certain parts of scripture and ignores others. The result is a faulty theology that is anti-matter and somewhat gnostic.
Dear Constance, is Rahmat Ahmad Apostikane, Maitreya?
Does anyone have information on this? Thanks.
From FOXNews and Associated Press
(10/09/09) . . .
2 Dead, Several Hospitalized at New-Age Sweat Lodge in Arizona
Two people are dead and several others remain hospitalized Friday after becoming mysteriously ill in a sauna-like sweat lodge at an Arizona resort.
Three people had heart attacks and about 21 in all were treated for injuries after being sickened Thursday night at the Angel Valley Sweat Lodge in Sedona. Two died.
The resort is next to GOP Sen. John McCain's ranch, according to MyFOXPhoenix.com.
Emergency crews responded about 5 p.m. Thursday to a hazardous materials situation at the sauna, the station said. Three patients were reportedly suffering cardiac arrest when ambulances and a helicopter arrived.
About 50 people were in a "sweatbox"-type structure when they were overcome at the resort, which provides Native American-style spiritual retreats, Yavapai County sheriff's spokesman Dwight D'Evelyn said Friday.
Many people began feeling ill after about two hours in the sweat lodge.
About 21 people were taken by ambulance or helicopter to area hospitals, where two were pronounced dead, D'Evelyn said. The dead were only identified as a man and woman, both middle-aged.
Two people taken to Flagstaff Medical Center were listed in critical condition on Friday. Three others who were admitted to a hospital in nearby Verde Valley recovered quickly; two were released overnight and one was reported in good condition on Friday.
Sheriff's homicide investigators were working to find the cause and determine if any criminal actions might have been a factor in the incident, D'Evelyn said. Investigators remained at the resort and were interviewing the retreat director, staff and resort guests on Friday.
Sedona is a resort town about 115 miles north of Phoenix famous for its red rocks. It is well-known as a center for a modern spiritual movement. Sweat lodges are indoor saunas usually located at spiritual resorts.
Dear Constance, is Rahmat Ahmad Apostikane, Maitreya?
Does anyone have information on this? Thanks.
Friday I was in East Lansing, Michigan, at the MSU School of Law (which used to be DETROIT COLLEGE OF LAW), my alma mater, judging a legal advocacy contest between several law schools. I was honored to be invited to be one of the judges. It was fun, I will admit, to wear a black robe and be called "Judge Cumbey" for a day. As vigorous as I am as an "activist lawyer" which Wikipedia calls me, I probably would be uncomfortable as a real judge. That would silence me publicly on most issues.
Constance
I checked out Rahmat Ahmad Apostikane at the request of one of our posters. Internet information on him was somewhat limited. Sounds like one more wannabe.
Constance
I don't think a person who has not been in the bowels of the New Age can completely understand it. That said,
there are different "rooms" in the New Age Holy City. The Mental Pride room is different from the Physical
Abuse side. The Physical Abuse side includes as one of its jewels "Kundalini."
On this blog we usually deal more with the Mental Pride room of the New Age Holy City. Solana and others of his ilk probably rarely visit the Physical Abuse room.
I don't know everything about the New Age, but I experienced the physical imbalance called Kundalini Crisis. It is primarily physical. By the time I was out of it I wanted nothing more to do with it, but of course there were the Mental Pride people there trying to get me to come that way, such as the book publishers who wanted me to write a book about my experience as long as I included chapters supporting THEM.
Barbara Clow, for instance, wanted me to include a chapter on Astrology, which I refused, and hence her interest in me and my manuscript evaporated very quickly.
I had other temptations like that: will you include material you don't really believe in if we publish your book? I always said "no."
Of course hard-core Christian publishers wouldn't have wanted my manuscript because it gave some credit to non-Christians who had been helpful and knew about Kundalini. I would not have been allowed to give ANY credit to those souls. They were to be considered
condemned.
This does not mean I am free of sin.
It means I am fairly free of self-delusion. We are all somewhat deluded, so that is why I always say that only the Rapture can cure us of our sins and delusion.
I don't know if the Rapture will come soon but I hope so, and that all here on Constance' site go to Heaven on that day.
Mariel
To Mariel:
I would be MOST INTERESTED in talking with you privately about BARBARA CLOW and BEAR PUBLISHING COMPANY. Some of the most specifically blatant material of the New Age I have read that glorifies Lucifer has come from her books.
Constance
Mariel
What do you mean by the rapture?
Could you explain what you think is going to happen?
Thanks,
Just curious
"One of my current personal theories is that Barack Obama was handed the Nobel Prize as a CONSOLATION PRIZE for his humiliation on the Olympics 2016 issue last week. He was probably plenty mad and I rather suspect they needed to do something to appease him.
He hardly has done anything yet that I can see that would have justified the Nobel Award.
Constance"
My take was that the Europeans gave him the award as an ecouragment to continue down the path of diplomacy and conciliation - a euro bribe - and now the pundits are saying much the same thing - don't know if that's accurate but I heard one media talking head say that it may be Europe's way of attempting to box him in to campaign promises that would affect them [Europe] - not sure which promises were being referred to there - and also as an insult to Bush and company...
Melinda in Seattle
More on that Sedona, Arizona new age 'retreat' . . .
PHOENIX (AP) 10/10/09 - A 38-year-old New York woman who died after sitting in a sauna-like sweat lodge at a scenic Arizona resort was an avid surfer and hiker who was "in top shape," took self-improvement seriously and had a passion for art, a family spokesman said.
Kirby Brown of Westtown, N.Y., was one of two people who died Thursday evening after being overcome in the crudely built hut during a spiritual cleansing ceremony. Authorities on Saturday identified the other victim as 40-year-old James Shore of Milwaukee, who served as director of business development at an Internet marketing company in his hometown.
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Nineteen other people were taken to hospitals, suffering from burns, dehydration, respiratory arrest, kidney failure or elevated body temperature. Most were soon released, but one remained in critical condition Saturday.
Brown had no pre-existing health conditions that would have kept her from participating in an otherwise safe activity, said cousin and family spokesman Tom McFeeley. That two people died and 19 others became ill at the Angel Valley Retreat Center indicates that "something went horribly wrong."
"Our only thought is shock, sadness and surprise," McFeeley said. "There will be plenty of time to react to the truth of what happened here, but we believe it is pointless to be angry or to place blame or to make assumptions before we understand what occurred here."
Matt Collins, who knew Shore since seventh grade, described his friend as a wonderful husband and father whose life revolved around his three kids. "Everybody who got to know him absolutely loved him," Collins told The Associated Press.
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Collins said he was stunned to hear of Shore's death, and the family remained in shock.
"Right now we're trying to focus on making sure that his wife, his children are comforted during this time," he said.
Autopsies on Brown and Shore were conducted Friday, but the results weren't disclosed pending additional tests. Authorities have ruled out carbon monoxide poising as the cause.
Yavapai County Sheriff Steve Waugh said Saturday that his detectives were focusing on self-help expert and author James Arthur Ray and his staff as they try to determine if criminal negligence played a role. Waugh said Ray refused to speak with authorities and has since left the state.
"We will continue this investigation down every road that is possible to find out if there is culpability on anybody relative to the deaths of these individuals," Waugh said. He said it could be three to four weeks before they knew if criminal charges would be filed.
Ray's recent postings on his Twitter account said he was "shocked and saddened" by the tragedy.
"My deep heartfelt condolences to family and friends of those who lost their lives," he wrote. "I am spending the weekend in prayer and meditation for all involved in this difficult time; and I ask you to join me in doing the same."
Ray's company, James Ray International, is based in Carlsbad, Calif. Ray's publicist, Howard Bragman, expressed condolences in a statement Friday but declined to speak about the deaths. Bragman didn't return a call for additional comment Saturday.
The Angel Valley Retreat Center is owned by Michael and Amayra Hamilton, who rented it to Ray for a five-day "Spiritual Warrior" retreat that promised to "absolutely change your life."
On Saturday, Amayra Hamilton said Ray has held the event at the resort for seven years, and there never have been any problems.
Hamilton said the resort remains closed to the public. The sweat lodge has been dismantled and a ceremony was conducted for those affected by Thursday's incident.
"The whole situation is very traumatizing for everybody," she said.
The people at Ray's retreat, whose ages ranged from 30 to the 60s, paid between $9,000 and $10,000 to attend.
(Continued . . .)
Ray and his staff constructed the temporary sweat lodge with a wood frame and covered it with layers of tarps and blankets, Waugh said. The sweat lodge — a structure commonly used by American Indian tribes to cleanse the body and prepare for hunts, ceremonies and other events — was 53 inches high at the center and about 30 inches high around the outer edges.
Between 55 and 65 people were crowded into the 415-square-foot space during a two-hour period that included various spiritual exercises led by Ray, Waugh said. Every 15 minutes, a flap was raised to allow more volcanic rocks the size of cantaloupes to be brought inside.
Authorities said participants were highly encouraged but not forced to remain in the sweat lodge for the entire time.
Joseph Bruchac, author of "The Native American Sweat Lodge: History and Legends," called the number of participants in the lodge "appalling."
"If you put people in a restrictive, airtight structure, you are going to use up all oxygen," he said by phone Saturday from his home in Saratoga Springs, N.Y. "And if you're doing a sweat, you're going to use it up that much faster."
American Indian sweat lodges typically hold about 12 people and are covered with blankets made of natural materials, such as cotton or wool, and the air flow isn't restricted, he said.
"I don't see how the person running that lodge could have been aware of the health and well-being of that many people," he said.
The participants had fasted for 36 hours as part of a personal and spiritual quest in the wilderness, then ate a breakfast buffet Thursday morning. After various seminars, they entered the sweat lodge lightly dressed at 3 p.m.
Two hours later, a woman dialed 911 to say that two people, whom Waugh identified as Brown and Shore, did not have a pulse and weren't breathing.
A nurse hired by Ray was directing rescue efforts including CPR when emergency crews arrived, Waugh said. Shore and Brown were pronounced dead when they arrived at a hospital.
Sheriff's Lt. David Rhodes said authorities were checking whether there was a lag time between the first signs of medical distress and the emergency call.
McFeeley said Brown had attended similar retreats, although he wasn't certain whether any were hosted by Ray. He said Brown, who grew up in Brooklyn and Westtown and spent time in Mexico, saw the outing as a chance to continue on a positive path in life.
Brown, a graduate of the State University of New York at Geneseo, had two sisters who recently got married, two new nephews and a focus on "making the world more beautiful for someone, not only with her art but with her heart," McFeeley said. Although the family is saddened by her death, he said Brown created a roadmap by which others should live.
"She was the least selfish, kindest person I knew," he said.
Constance:
Do you, or anyone out there, have any information on the following?
1) James Ray International - based in Carlsbad, California, and/or
2) Michael & Amayra Hamilton - who run this Angel Valley Retreat Center in Sedona, Arizona
It's nothing new. Same old, same old. Google "Sedona" + Sweat Lodge" and you'll find a wealth of absurd sites to explore. Lots of scammers offering vision quests and sweat lodges and New Age religious jibberish to sucker fools in. Big bucks spent to play at religion. As a young child in the 50s I read books from the Weekly Readers' Book Club. One of the books I read was Ojibwa Drums (could have been spelled Ojibway I suppose) in which I first learned of spirit guides, sweat lodges and vision quests. I was not susceptible to that form of the lie since I did not pursue the subject. But many have. (BTW, the "word" that appears here for me to use for "word verification " is "apachi". Kind of interesting isn't it?)
I decided to check my spelling. It's Ojibway Drums. By Marian Magoon. Evidently she also wrote a children's book about a boy from Ephasus. I think her maiden name may have been Waite. Remember A.E. Waite? I wonder if there's a connection there.
Marian Austin Waite Magoon, b. 1885 from New York, Masters and Ph.D from Ann Arbor, taught in Mich. schools, and Eastern Mich. U., based book on summers spent on island in Georgian Bay amid Natives. Leave it to a school teacher in the govt. schools to introduce kids to pagan rites. And Weekly Reader, which served to indoctrinate govt. school kids to publish it.
Constance, I would never put Hank Hanegraff in the same category as Benny Hinn, never!
Thank you for your king hearted thoughts towards me and those who visit here Mariel.
DouginMI
Quote - "Mariel
What do you mean by the rapture?
Could you explain what you think is going to happen?
Thanks,
Just curious
6:41 PM" - end quote.
I am not Mariel but here goes with my explanation if you are still there.
The Rapture is the snatching away of those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and have accepted Him as their Lord and Saviour.
Some believe in a pre Tribulation Rapture and some Mid-Trib and some post-Trib. The Tribulation is a 7 year period prior to the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Many believe we are very close to the beginning of the Tribulation period which could be become identified with a 7 year Peace Treaty with many.
1 Cor. 15:52 (KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Luke 17:34-36 (KJV) I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
This is our glorious hope - that we do not have to endure the Tribulation and certainly not the last 3 1/2 years.
I hope the above is helpful.
In Christ,
P.
Anon 7:12,
Could you share with us what "form of the lie" you ARE susceptible to?
To Anon 10:15AM
Thanks P,
Your comments were very helpful.
Blind guides leading the gullible.
In his 2005 book, "Ojibwa Warrior", AIM activist Dennis Banks mentions a Lakota friend of mine, one of the last of the "traditional" medicine men and a keeper of the sweat lodge ceremony.
I'll never forget my friend's response when I asked him, (jeez, must be almost thirty years ago now)...a series of questions about Lakota religion and ceremonies, including the specifics of the sweat lodge...
"Why you keep asking me about God and truth, the spirit world and prophecy, and stuff like that? The Lakota have to remember all these things by doing ceremonies. We didn't have it written down for us like you. Why don't you read your Bible? The truth about all these kind of things is in there."
What a shame that so many are willing to follow "false teachers" who's only claim to fame is their skill at tickling itching ears. Although the very Word of God is in our midst, they still seek answers elsewhere.
Perhaps the shock of the Sedona tragedy will wake some of those new agers out of their stupor. A few of them anyway.
Hoka hey
I was reading the testimony of a former Christian Scientist member. And she mentioned how it was all mind over matter. And that members were told to treat serious injuries as if they were just in the mind and did not actually exist.
Savvy
James Arthur Ray - Sedonna sweat lodge incident.
To Anonymous; I too have been interested in this very unfortunate incident and have explored this a little.
Here's a few sites I bookmarked that might of interest to you;
The Spiritual Warrior Participant Guide for this event. There's some serious disclaimers that need to be signed, I don't know if these are extraordinary to standard business practise, maybe Constance will know;
http://tinyurl.com/yhqndbd
The Holosync meditation program that is mentioned in the above guide;
http://www.centerpointe.com/
James Arthur Ray website;
http://jamesray.com/
World Wealth Society Summit - meeting this week includes guest speaker Ervin Laszlo;
http://tinyurl.com/pjc9fj
---
An aside. Also this week, Ervin Laszlo and Barbara Marx Hubbard speaking about Ervin's new book at Meditation Mount, Ojai, CA;
http://tinyurl.com/yjkvs32
Barbara's new movie, coming soon;
http://www.barbaramarxhubbard.com/content/
---
~K~
Paul,
Personally, I believe "healing" received at services such as Hinn's fall into two categories. 1)The person healed is strong in faith and the Lord acts according to His promises. 2) The demonic force causing the illness moves aside, allowing the person to experience relief from a illness, thus allowing the "healed" to be deceived further by the false teachings of said "healer".
The two different types are easily discernable by who remains healed and who only sees temporary benefits. The enemies game is thick with deception, and counterfeits of the real thing. Healing is no different than any other area in this regard.
James Arthur Ray (not James Earl Ray of MLK Jr. fame) and his Spiritual Warriors...sounds awfully like Spiritual Warfare. That's the term used by Charismatics. There are so many similarities between New Age mumbo-jumbo and Charismatic mumbo-jumbo.
yes, Constance, at the time I knew Bear and Co. they were publishing "Catholic priest" Matthew Fox and the writings of Hildegard of Bingen. Attempting syncretism. I was just emerging from the New Age and so had read these books to see if I could go across that bridge; never made it across, as the bridge leads to what you say.
I will write you and see if you want any info about Clow and Bear which I have from those days.
Mariel
"P" has described the rapture well.
So I guess I need not do it?
It is my belief that God would not want us to endure the spiritual onslaught of the wrath which is coming. As P said, the rapture could come at mid-tribulation or pre-trib, but I don't think it would come at the end, because that is the time when Christ returns with his saints...I mean, the traffic is moving in the opposite direction at that time, no? The Bible says Jesus comes with His saints to finally take over at the end of the tribulation.
I hope it is pre-trib. It is the Blessed Hope. We don't know when it is exactly, but the Bible says we will know the "season".
Craig,
I have been away and am just now catching up on all my reading. I noticed your comment on Madame Guyon, and thought you might find the following information useful.
I will tell you up front that the historical information I am sharing here about Madame Guyon and the error of "Quietism" is mainly from Catholic sources.
Correct me if I am mistaken, but from the Protestant Christian Rule of Faith, the important thing to understand is that "Quietism" is NOT Biblical!
Where does it say in the Bible that we do not have to ACTIVELY fight temptation and sin? Indeed, we are told that we are to "work out our faith in fear and trembling."
“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure (Phil.2:12-13).
__________________________
Jeanne-Marie Bouvier de la Motte-Guyon (commonly known as Madame Guyon) (April 13, 1648 – June 9, 1717) was a French mystic and one of the key advocates of Quietism. Quietism was considered heretical by the Roman Catholic Church, and she was imprisoned from 1695 to 1703 after publishing a book on the topic, A Short and Easy Method of Prayer.......read more.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
/Jeanne_Marie_Bouvier_de_la_
Motte_Guyon
Madame Guyon was a disciple of a man named Miguel de Molinos, the founder of a form of pseudo-mysticism called "Quietism" - which may have been anticipated by the Spanish gnostic Alumbrados ( a.k.a. the "Enlightened Ones"). In some murky ways, the error of Molinos resembled the foul doctrine of "holy sinning" embraced by certain other heretical gnostics.
ALUMBRADOS
A loosely organized group of spiritual persons in sixteenth-century Spain, condemned many times by the Inquisition, who taught that once a person attains the vision of God's essence in this life he can dispense with all external means of sanctification. Vocal prayer, the use of the sacraments, the practice of justice and charity, penance and bodily mortification become unnecessary. Perfect souls need give themselves only to mental prayer and ecstatic contemplation, which unite them so intimately with God that they lose personal liberty and individuality. In the state of perfection a man becomes incapable of sin, and what might be grave crimes in others are not even venial faults in the iluminados.
Consistent with these principles, the Alumbrados often gave themselves over to unrestrained indulgence of the passions. In less extreme forms, Spanish illuminism for a while affected not only the simple people but also members of the clergy and nobility. Repressive measures by the Inquisition finally crushed the movement, which persisted in the Diocese of Cádiz and Seville into the late seventeenth century. Later on the same ideas were revived in Italy under Miguel de Molinos (1640-97) as quietism.
All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.
http://www.catholicculture.
org/culture/library/dictionary
/index.cfm?id=31760
Interestingly, one of Madame Guyon's staunchest defenders was the famous French Bishop Francois Fenelon. However, if they were not treated as severely as other followers of Molinos, it is because
"in France, the semiquietism of Fénelon and Jeanne Guyon took from Molinos only the teaching of "pure love"......
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10441a.htm
In reply to P. at 10:15 am
Corinthians XV:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall BE CHANGED.
With reference as to what happens in the twinking of an eye here, it is not that we are 'snatched' up in the twinkling of an eye (implying in a pre-tributation context that we will suddenly disappear from the Earth), but that we are CHANGED in the twinking of an eye. This is shown by preceding verse (I Cor. XV:51),'Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,'. (I have left the comma at the end of verse 51, as it appears there for the reason of showing continuation into verse 52. When this first letter to the Corinthians was written in the original Greek, it was not done so in chapter and verse format. This is important to remember, especially when reading the Epistles. The translators, to speed up the process of finding a passage quickly, then put it into chapter and verse. This means verses and chapters must be read in context.) In fact, Paul, writing to the Church at Corinth here, reiterates the point of being changed in the last clause of I. Cor. XV:52, so as to clarify that what happens to us in the twinkling of an eye is that we are changed!
We are changed from corruption (our old bodies full of the nature of sin) into incorruption, (given new bodies not corrupted by sin) because that which is corrupt cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ keeps the same body because He never sinned but defeated sin at the cross. When we read verse 52 in the context of what is being said here in the epistle, we see this is the case.
2 Thessalonians 2
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall NOT come, EXCEPT there come a falling away FIRST, AND that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:7 has been wrongly transliterated from the Greek, to understand it as fitting in harmony with what Paul is saying in context, Please see: http://shalach.org/Rapture/does_2_thessalonians_reveal_the.htm
Revelation 13
6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with THE SAINTS, AND TO OVERCOME THEM: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were BEHEADED FOR THE WITNESS OF JESUS, AND FOR THE WORD OF GOD, AND which HAD NOT WORSHIPPED THE BEAST, NEITHER HIS IMAGE,NEITHER HAD RECEIVED HIS MARK ON UPON THEIR FOREHEADS, OR IN THEIR HANDS; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
Rob, London
I plead with you brother, do not fall for the pre-trib deception! The early Church fathers did not believe in it, neither should we. We are not greater than our Master and friend, Jesus Christ. We shall also be persecuted and must carry our cross. God's love is so great and He rightly will give His Glory to no one, certainly not the devil! He wants as many people to be saved as possible, even though that means His saints must stay during the Tribulation to witness.
God is no respecter of persons.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have NO pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Rob, London
Mark 13
4Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
5And Jesus answering them began to say, TAKE HEED LEST ANY MAN DECEIVE YOU:
6For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
7And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
8For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
9But take HEED to YOURSELVES: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10And the gospel must FIRST be published among ALL nations.
11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the HOLY GHOST.
12Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he THAT SHALL ENDURE TO UNTO THE END, the same shall be saved.
14But when YE SHALL SEE the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20And except that the Lord had SHORTENED those days,
NO flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26And THEN shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27And THEN shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
28Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
(Please see the weblink on 2 Thessalonians 2:7 above, and look above at Mark 13:11, see also Mark 13:14-17 and compare this with Luke 17:34-36.
God bless you and may we all rely in His Strength in the Name of Jesus Christ our Lord.
Your brother in Christ our Lord and Saviour, Rob in London
Here's the link explaining how 2 Thessalonians should have been properly translated from the Greek, as I see it has not shown up properly in my last post.
http://shalach.org/Rapture/does_2_thessalonians_reveal_the.htm
God bless and keep you all, Rob.
http://shalach.org/Rapture/
does_2_thessalonians_reveal_the.htm
"I plead with you brother, do not fall for the pre-trib deception! The early Church fathers did not believe in it, neither should we. We are not greater than our Master and friend, Jesus Christ. We shall also be persecuted and must carry our cross. God's love is so great and He rightly will give His Glory to no one, certainly not the devil! He wants as many people to be saved as possible, even though that means His saints must stay during the Tribulation to witness.
God is no respecter of persons."
Amen, Rob.
To Melinda in Seattle:
Now that I've subsequently learned that the nominations for Nobel closed on February 1, 2009, you are probably right.
Thanks!
Constance
I'm sorry, but I've had BAD EXPERIENCES with Hank Hanegraff who falsely imputed positions to me in writing that I never held and never once has contacted me for my position. Moreover, he gave some bad cults cover. Researcher Lanetta Irwin shared considerable materials and document with me about this in the early 1990s.
I would currently consider buying a used car from neither of those gentlemen.
Constance
My belief on the Obama Peace Prize is that they didn't expect things to change. The fix had been in.
I think they expected much legislation to be passed by now. Obama had been marketed as a messiah complete with halo pictures. People were slobbering over him. The media couldn't put up enough pictures of him. The calendars, books, stories, appearances. He was the magic man.
Remember how at the beginning of his term he was demanding what HE wanted done. He set deadlines, and we heard how important it was that we did what HE wanted us to do.
The OBAMA HAD SPOKEN. The leadership of both the Republican and Democratic parties thought a lot of legislation would be rushed through on the strength of his OBAMASHIP.
Only in the meantime a sleeping American Giant was aroused, thousands of people who attended tea parties, town hall meetings, signed petitions, listed to conservative media, etc. Grassroots people were mad. It probably shocked all of the government leaders who were interested in being re-elected.
Obama's locomotive was essentially stopped.
By now the peace prize people probably thought all kinds of leftistthings would be accomplished. After all the world loved him, Americans worshipped him. What could go wrong?
Well, something did and they were stuck with handing a prize to an empty suit, nothing more than a talking head with a teleprompter. So sad. So funny.
Dorothy
Dear Susanna,
I've had an exceptionally busy weekend, so I'm quickly reviewing the comments from the bottom up.
I just had to comment with my thanks for the brilliant information re: Madame Guyon.
I literally disposed of my "Women of Faith" Women's Study Bible a few years back which was rampant with quotations from this woman.
Thanks for the input.
It's really important to highlight these individuals who are being promoted with a "slight of hand" tactic in many Bible study materials and Bibles throughout the Protestant(and possibly the Catholic) communities.
Thanks so much.
By His Grace,
-SV
Rob,
"As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be before the coming of the Son of Man."
Noah and his family did NOT suffer the flood, but they rode out the storm from above it all.
It also makes sense to me that the very act of removing the "salt of the earth" is the thing that makes the whole world really begin to rot very quickly, since salt has the effect of preserving and keeping things clean.
Look at what happened to Sodom and Gommorrah the minute he removed righteous Lot and his family.
"For the mystery of iniquity is already at work, until he who now restrains, is taken out of the way" (IIThess. 2:7)
Rob,
You mention context; so why did you begin your quote of IIThessalonians from verse 3, and not include verses 1 and 2 ?
Furthermore Jesus was speaking to his disciples in the
Olivet Discourse. THEY were in fact delivered up to magistrates and persecuted. They were beheaded and
crucified and boiled in oil, etc., every one of them.
Rob,
Furthermore, it's self evident that the vast majority of Christians for the last two thousand years have lived and died without being persecuted. And persecution
and martyrdom have gone on here and there even to this day, as in Sudan and the Philippines today. So
obviously not all Christians are destined to be martyred, but some are.
All this to say; you may be right, but I may be right too.
Only God knows.
God bless you brother.
Good article on the Rapture
http://www.letusreason.org/Proph13.htm
Dear SV,
I am glad you found the information on Madame Guyon useful.
While she and Fenelon, who was HER disciple, ( which, from a Catholic perspective, is like the tail wagging the dog) didn't embrace the most extreme Quietist teachings of Molinos, ALL versions of it have been proscribed as heresy by the Roman Catholic Church.
The reason I posted the information on Madame Guyon is because I read in a couple of articles that Protestants were supportive of Madame Guyon's teachings - which I knew to be false - at least as far as orthodox Protestant Christians are concerned.
Here is more....and again this is according to the Catholic Rule of Faith.....which includes the Bible and cannot contradict the Bible:
Quietism is a Christian philosophy that swept through France, Italy and Spain during the 17th century, but it had much earlier origins. The mystics known as Quietists insist, with more or less emphasis, on intellectual stillness and interior passivity as essential conditions of perfection. All have been officially proscribed as heresy in very explicit terms by the Roman Catholic Church.
The state of imperturbable serenity or ataraxia was seen as a desirable state of mind by Epicurus, Pyrrhonian and the Stoic philosophers alike, and by their Roman followers, such as the emperor Marcus Aurelius. Quietism has been compared to the Buddhist doctrine of Nirvana. The possibility of achieving a sinless state and union with the Christian Godhead are denied by the Roman Catholic Church...
....Molinos and the doctrines of Quietism were finally condemned by Pope Innocent XI in the Bull Coelestis Pastor of 1687. A commission in France found most of Madame Guyon’s works intolerable and the government confined her, first in a convent, then in the Bastille. In 1699, after Fénelon’s spirited defense in a press war with Bossuet, Pope Innocent XII prohibited the circulation of Fénelon’s Maxims of the Saints, to which Fénelon submitted at once. The inquisition's proceedings against remaining Quietists in Italy lasted until the eighteenth century......
....Quietism states that man's highest perfection consists of a self-annihilation, and subsequent absorption, of the soul into the Divine, even during the present life. In this way, the mind is withdrawn from worldly interests to passively and constantly contemplate God. Quietists would say that the Bible describes the man of God as a man of the tent and the altar only, having no part or interest in the multitudinous affairs, pursuits, and pleasures of the world system.
Whatever its theological implications, it is undeniable that the personal autonomy implied by Quietism had an undermining effect on Church unity and discipline.
The issue however, with Quietism is that with the relational understanding; theologians claim it is heretical since it is not Trinitarian. Furthermore, given the view that God said that Adam was "lonely," (and thus created Eve) it follows that God intended people to be in community (Gen 2:18).......read more....
http://en.wikipedia.org/
wiki/Quietism_(Christian_philosophy)
Dear Paul,
Let us look at Luke 17:26-27
26. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, UNTIL THE DAY THAT NOAH ENTERED THE ARK, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Here we learn that it was until and not after Noah entered the ark that the people continued in their sin. By this comparison, is it not therefore logical to see that such people will continue in their sin not just up to some imagined pretibulation rapture but right up to the Day of the Lord.
Moreover, just as Noah waited to be delivered in the very same day that those sinners faced the judgment of the flood, Christians that hold steadfast in the Love of the truth must wait until the Son of Man, Our Lord Jesus Christ, is revealed on clouds of Glory, AS THE LIGHTNING COMETH OUT OF THE EAST, AND SHINETH EVEN UNTO THE WEST; SO SHALL THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE, when unrepentant sinners shall be destroyed.
Rob in London.
Matthew 5:13 (reiterated in Luke 14:33-35)
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
The salt of the earth is not removed because of a pre-tribulation rapture, but because of a falling away, because of those who have not held steadfast to, and therefore have not loved, the Truth and have lost their saltiness, with which to counter the spread of sin.
I agree that it would've been better had I included the first verses of 2 Thessalonians 2, so I shall do so after I have shown 2 Thessalonians Chapter 1. Before that, however, I would like to pick you up on your usage of 2 Thessalonians 2:7.
I have already mentioned that this verse has been wrongly transliterated in the KJV etc, as is agreed by experts in New Testament Greek when examining the same manuscripts of the received text as those men used which compiled the KJV.
2 Thessalonians should, as best as we know, read in English: " 2 Thes. 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he comes forth out of the midst.
This transliteration of 2 Thes. 2:7 therefore lends itself creditably to what Apostle Paul had just previously revealed regarding the sudden appearing and coming forth into existence of the man Antichrist within the midst of the Body of Christ.
2 Thes. 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
http://shalach.org/Rapture/does_2_thessalonians_reveal_the.htm
Rob, London.
Before the chapter, in slightly older copies of the King James Version, we are given a brief introduction by the translators to show continuity in keeping with the original Greek meaning. I shall therefore include these here in parenthesis.
I shall continue in the next post, below, due to word restrictions for each comment. Rob, London.
THE SECOND EPISTLE OF PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE THESSALONIANS
CHAPTER I
1.(Saint Paul certifieth them of the good opinion which he had of their FAITH,LOVE, and PATIENCE: and therwithal useth divers reasons
for the comforting of them IN PERSECUTION, whereof the chiefest is taken from the Righteous Judgment of God.)
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2. Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3. We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your FAITH GROWETH EXCEEEDINGLY, and the CHARITY of every one of you all TOWARD EACH OTHER ABOUNDETH;
4. So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your PATIENCE AND FAITH in all your PERSECUTIONS and TRIBULATIONS that YE ENDURE:
5. WHICH IS A MANEFEST TOKEN of the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT OF GOD, THAT YE may BE COUNTED WORTHY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD,FOR WHICH YE ALSO SUFFER:
6. Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them THAT TROUBLE YOU;
7. And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be REVEALED from heaven with his mighty angels,
8. In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9. Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10. When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and TO BE admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in THAT DAY.
11. Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you WORTHY OF THIS CALLING, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
12. That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rob, London.
CHAPTER II
1.(He willeth them to CONTINUE STEADFAST IN THE TRUTH RECEIVED, showeth that THERE SHALL BE A DEPARTURE FROM THE FAITH, and a DISCOVERY of antichrist, BEFORE the Day of the Lord come. And thereupon REPEATETH HIS FORMER EXHORTATION, and prayeth for them.)
Now we BESEECH you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2. That ye BE NOT SOON SHAKEN in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, AS THAT THE DAY OF CHRIST IS AT HAND.
3. LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU by ANY means: for THAT DAY SHALL NOT come, EXCEPT there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that man of sin be REVEALED, the son of perdition;
4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7. (For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way: should read;
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he comes forth out of the midst.)
8. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; BECAUSE THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, that they MIGHT BE SAVED.
11. And for THIS cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12. That they all MIGHT be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation THROUGH SANCTIFICATION of the Spirit and BELIEF of the truth:
14. Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, AND HOLD THE TRADITIONS WHICH YE HAVE BEEN TAUGHT, whether by word, or our epistle.
16. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, WHICH HATH LOVED US, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope THROUGH GRACE,
17. Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in EVERY GOOD WORD AND WORK.
I maintain that in context these verses emplore us not, for example, to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, but to remain steadfast in Faith, Love, and the Truth, and emphasise that we shall not be gathered up until the Day of
the Lord.
I believe this is backed up by Matthew 24 (Please see 2 Thess. 2vs 10 and 11 above, in conjunction with this)
23. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect.
25. Behold, I have told you before.
26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; BELIEVE IT NOT.
27FOR AS THE LIGHTNING COMETH OUT OF THE EAST, AND SHINETH EVEN UNTO THE WEST; SO SHALL THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE.
Rob, London
The possibility of the very elect being decieved here, is due sanctification of the Holy Spirit, and the very elect's belief of the truth. (See 2 Thess 2: 13) not because they've been raptured. In contrast, we learn that those who have not remained steadfast in the Faith, and those who have rejected it from the beginning, have not received (i.e., accepted) the LOVE of the Truth, (2 Thess 2:10) therefore have been sent the delusion that they might (unless they repent) believe a lie. (2 Thess. 11) The next verse, 12, strengthens the point that THIS is the reason for their delusion. Therefore, the very elect escape the delusion not through a rapture, but by the Holy Spirit sanctifying them, and because of their holding steadfast in the traditons they received in the Love of the Truth.
Rob, London.
We see the Holy Spirit is still present with the saints during the persecution of them. Looking at Mark 13 KJV in my previous post above, we see that
10And the gospel must FIRST be published among ALL nations.
(This, I beleive is what the fulness of the gentiles written in Romans 11:25 refers to.)
11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the HOLY GHOST.
This is reiterated in Matthew 10, notably verses 16-22. KJV
We Christians should pray for a greater love in our hearts, I for one want the Lord to come quickly, but do not want to be 'raptured' before the tribulation, as I believe there is much work to be done. Who will exhort those people to turn from their sins and repent? Who will shout out about the dangers of taking the mark and worshipping the beast and his image? I want to love my neighbours as myself.
John 15:12-14
12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
John 3:16-18
16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I believe that no man is more loving nor any man more patient than God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. I believe that the Lord waits till the very last moment and shortens the days otherwise none would be saved. I also believe that we Christians can become confused between God's Wrath and Satans Wrath, as part of God's Wrath is the delusion that people are given over to. Satan's Wrath happens similtaneously against the Church, as God's wrath against those who refuse to repent and are persecuting His Saints. We are sealed from the plagues of the last days that are also part of God's Wrath:
Revelation 7:3
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Revelation 9:4
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
If we'd been raptured previously, we would not need to be sealed and neither could we be overcome by the Antichrist by beheading:
Revelation 13:6-8
6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
God bless you and all here, we must pray for love in our hearts and preach the Word of God unceasingly.
Your brother in Christ, Rob, London.
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