Monday, April 13, 2009

Dr. Monteith and I will do each other's programs tomorrow evening

Dr. Stanley Monteith called me today to ask if I would like to be a guest on his Radio Liberty program tomorrow afternoon at 7 p.m. Eastern time, 4 p.m. Pacific time. Of course, I said, "yes." I always enjoy working with "Dr. Stan." But I had a dilemma. Immdiately after hanging up from that program, I have my own radio program to do on THEMICROEFFECT.COM.
So, the solution is easy. Dr. Stan will warm me up on his program and then he has graciously agreed to immediately thereafter be the guest on mine. So we will have two hours together back to back with little time to rest the voice.

I had a nice talk with Dr. Grady McMurtry today. He is a brand new grandfather. His daughter and grandson (9 lbs, 11 oz.) is doing well! He will be a repeat guest on my radio program this coming June 16th.

Tune in and stay tuned!



joyce said...

Constance & Susanna,
Sorry to hear about your loss. May you have the peace that passes all understanding and the family of Carrie.

One another note,

Please all take a careful look at the participants in this conference and the related conference. We have Jeffrey Sachs, Brian McLaren, some from Obama's faith-based office all coming together.
There is ONE, World Vision, etc.

We are seeing a very clear and blatant mixing of the Emergent Church, Evangelicals, Obama, the UN, etc.

Under the guise of social justice and wanting to end hunger, all very worthy causes we are seeing a pulling down of walls and the Evangelical Church, namely Baptists, Methodists and Lutherns, so pretty mainline denominations, join the the UN>

Most of us on the blog understand that the UN is anything but a "biblical organization" so keep your eyes open as lines get blurrier and blurrier under the guise of "social justice".

Jeffrey Sachs of course is connected to George Soros,the billionaire supporter of Obama, Jewish hater of Israel, currency trader famous for almost breaking the bank of England.

Here's a film on Soros:

Haven't watched all of it, but so far it's interesting..


Joyce said...

here's a complete list of "partners"

Center for Community Change
Children's Defense Fund
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Christian Community Development Association
Christian Reformed Church in North America
Consistent Life
Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
Deep Shift
Emergent Village
Episcopal Diocese of Maryland
Evangelical Covenant Church
Evangelicals for Social Action
Gamaliel Foundation
Greater Minneapolis Council of Churches
Greater New Jersey Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church
International Development & Educational Associates
InterVarsity Christian Fellowship USA
John Deckenbeck, Central Atlantic UCC Conference
Lumunos: Faith and Light for the Journey
Lutheran Congregational Services
Massachusetts Conference United Church of Christ
Mennonite Central Committee East Coast
Mennonite Central Committee U.S.
Mennonite Church USA
Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate
National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference
New Hampshire Council of Churches
New York Faith and Justice
North Carolina Council of Churches
Pennsylvania Central UCC Conference
PICO National Network
Reformed Church in America
RESULTS Educational Fund
Rhode Island State Council of Churches
The Episcopal Church, Peace & Justice Ministries
The Episcopal Diocese of Southern Virginia
The General Board of Church and Society of The United Methodist Church
The New York Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church
United Church of Christ, Justice and Witness Ministries
Urban Ministries Inc.
West Virginia Council of Churches

Joyce said...

Here's one of the participants:

and another:

As you probably realize, I am not a big fan of these ecumenic organizations, whether it includes Messianics or not, like this one:

With everyone's desire to be "one" and work together towards the common good, doctrine is thrown out the window. Personally, I think doctrine is very important and will be more important in the days ahead as confusion grows.


Jaclyn said...

Joyce, it is refreshing to hear someone say that doctrine is important, how I agree with you!

Anonymous said...

Tue Apr 14 2009 08:44:54 ET

AUSTIN – Gov. Rick Perry joined state Rep. Brandon Creighton and sponsors of House Concurrent Resolution (HCR) 50 in support of states’ rights under the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

“I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size, its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with the affairs of our state,” Gov. Perry said. “That is why I am here today to express my unwavering support for efforts all across our country to reaffirm the states’ rights affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue regulations, and ultimately strengthen our Union.”

Perry continued: "Millions of Texans are tired of Washington, DC trying to come down here to tell us how to run Texas."


A number of recent federal proposals are not within the scope of the federal government’s constitutionally designated powers and impede the states’ right to govern themselves. HCR 50 affirms that Texas claims sovereignty under the 10th Amendment over all powers not otherwise granted to the federal government.

It also designates that all compulsory federal legislation that requires states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties, or that requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding, be prohibited or repealed.


Anonymous said...

Since this blogspot started I've been posting information on it both anonymously and under my own name. I've been seriously researching the New Age movement since my first contact with Constance before her first book came out.

I've appreciated the outlet for my own research over the years, but times change. It has become distracting and emotionally tiring to get into confrontations over issues that are just distracting, so I've taken the step of posting my information under my own name over at a blogspot linked here.

Rich Peterson's

I've now posted several items over there. I may post several items in a day and then go for a week without posting anything. If you've appreciated the research I've done, do check the threads following Rich's extremely well researched information. Because of my varied interests, I will cover a larger area of the movement than he researches in depth.

I'm sure the switch will make it more pleasant for readers of these threads.


Susanna said...

Dear Constance,

Please check your e-mail. Heading -Re: Carrie Tomko - from Susanna

Susanna said...

Dear Joyce,

Thank you for your kind words.

In many ways, Carrie and I were "kindred spirits."

I miss her very much.

Susanna said...

Dear Dorothy,

Thanks for the heads up. I will check in regularly at Rich Peterson's site now that I know that you are posting there.

SV said...

Dear Dorothy,
I appreciate the info!
I'll be checking in regularly.

By His Grace,

Anonymous said...

Dorothy -

chicken :)

SV said...

Homeland Security on guard for 'right-wing extremists':

WASHINGTON – "A newly unclassified Department of Homeland Security report warns against the possibility of violence by unnamed 'right-wing extremists' concerned about illegal immigration, increasing federal power, restrictions on firearms, abortion and the loss of U.S. sovereignty and singles out returning war veterans as particular threats."

"The report, titled 'Right-wing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment,' dated April 7, states that 'threats from white supremacist and violent anti-government groups during 2009 have been largely rhetorical and have not indicated plans to carry out violent acts.' "
"The report from DHS' Office of Intelligence and Analysis defines right-wing extremism in the U.S. as 'divided into those groups, movements and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups) and those that are mainly anti-government, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.' "

"'[T]he consequences of a prolonged economic downturn – including real estate foreclosures, unemployment and an inability to obtain credit –could create a fertile recruiting environment for right-wing extremists and even result in confrontations between such groups and government authorities similar to those in the past,' the report says." -WND

Link To Article-

*Thanks, J.N., The list would have been a little easier for you if you'd just mentioned who ISN'T a threat to 'homeland security' these days.

By His Grace,

Bleedin Red White and Blue Baby! said...

New MTV commercials warning of marshall law.

I saw this while my brother was watching MTV. The TV station has produced a series of commercials showing people in every day activities, riding a subway, eating dinner, etc, at which point the police/military raid the subways and home to round up the people. The commercials finish with a screen shot saying the holocaust happened to people just like us. This is a disturbing thing to be broad cast on TV. I found the commercials on youtube and am posting them here, there is a website listed at the end of the commercials as well.

Unknown said...

Is anyone here familiar with any of the works on covenant by Henry Clay Trumbull? His books are public domain and are available on line. I noticed that when listing his book, other very occultic books are listed. From what I can tell, he has compiled examples of evidences of covenant throughout the world in every culture, and also discusses covenants in the Bible. It seems that the occultists’ interests are to abuse the information for their own perversions.

When I read about threshold covenant, it is amazing how it brings to light the depth of what God did at Passover. I was recently introduced to two Hebrew words—abar and pesach. Both are translated "pass over". (Check it out at Ex. 12:23) One means to pass by, the other to leap over. When God said, He would pesach, He was saying He would literally come into the homes of the Israelites who had the blood on the doorposts, but the destroyer would abar—pass by their homes.

I am asking these questions because Trubull’s books are being quoted by a ministry that I am involved. The citations are used in support of teaching how covenant relates to marriage (Malachi 2:14). Without going into all the details, it is quite an interesting study and its application to marriage is equally fascinating. One example is the old-fashioned concept of carrying the bride over the threshold. The groom is saying that all he has is now hers and that she is under the protection of his household.

Before I promote the teaching further, I would like any input here on Trumbull’s work. I spent a few hours reading through two of the online books, but could not read them completely. Does anyone have insight to share?


Anonymous said...

You haven't done your homework on Barry.African is not a race.The there are other proofs the colb is a forgery.The BC is not the issue.It is the NBC status of which it is already known he isn't one.Couple the British BNA Act of 1948,along with his Indonesian citizenship,and multiple aliases,and one knows he was chosen to usurp the office of POTUS.

Anonymous said...

This is an interesting article about the recent pirate attacks – which I think they will use to promote and pass the L.O.S.T. treaty


Rudi said...

Thanks for the heads up to the WND
article SV. A word to the wise. Take the time to read through the DHS report. It can be easily read in 10-15 minutes - or less. I share the opinion of others, that the report WAS DELIBERATELY leaked. I'm also very grateful to any and all "alternative
news" sources who were the first to alert us to the existence of this report BEFORE the mainstream media (including FOX) deemed it worthy of the attention of the American public. By the way CNN and internet news headlines around the world are helping in this most likely, intentional, ongoing, process of marginalization. The text of the report, if it's read, requires no additional hyping. It is very clear. Clear enough that U.S. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has found herself back-pedaling today in an effort to divert attention away from the actual report. -Rudi

Statement by U.S. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano on the Threat of Right-Wing Extremism
share this page

Release Date: April 15, 2009


Constance Cumbey said...

I have tried to be patient here -- I love Dorothy, but I could not accede to what I construed to demands that I remove Joyce from the blogspot. The reason that intellectual Jews should rationally deny Jesus was totally unacceptable to me. I am loyal to Dorothy, but my primary loyalty is to Jesus Christ and I will never condemn anybody for accepting Him. I believe that the prophecies of Zechariah 12 are the most applicable Biblical revelation of what will come in the future. I do believe that anti-Semitism of any type is evil in God's sight, but I cannot define belief in Jesus -- a Jewish carpenter in his earthly life before his 30th birthday -- to be part and parcel of anti-Semitism. For the record, the Nazis vigorously proclaimed that Jesus was NOT a Jew. He was.


Constance Cumbey said...

I am reading the Homeland security pages with my mouth open. What does anybody here know about 'FUSION CENTERS'?


Anonymous said...


Alex Jones has covered fusion centers a lot. He says it is the Federalization of our Police and Sheriff Departments.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Hi Constance,
If I may comment, I appreciate Dorothy and read what she has to say carefully, I find it a bit ironic if what you have detailed is her true heart in the matter. But, as the Lord wills -

There is alot to be said about fusion centers, thier function, and thier growing increase as information gathering centers.
This link will detail a bit of the concept out - icluding microsofts involvement. Bearing in mind that microsoft also has contract with verichip to name but 1 tenticle.
Here are a couple more -


Susanna said...

Hi Constance,

Wikipedia also has an interesting article on "fusion centers."

Anonymous said...


URL to article:

SV said...


"Babies, toddlers and preschoolers across the country are set to become political activists under controversial new Federal Government guidelines."

"The April 2009 draft Early Years Learning Framework wants teachers to make under-fives:

* Contribute in a meaningful way to reconciliation, including flying the Aboriginal flag and inviting elders to give talks.

* Use "social inclusion puppets" and "persona dolls" to explore exclusion and ethical issues.

* Challenge and resist bias and discrimination.

* Take action in unfair situations and learn to act when injustice occurs.

* Assess and act on power dynamics as they get older.

'The political emphasis of the guidelines has divided early learning experts.' "

"Under the $700,000 new approach to early childhood education, the goal will be to "promote children's civic participation and nurture socially responsible citizens for a future world," a Federal Government February 2009 briefing paper states."

" 'The early childhood years are a time when children are developing understandings of community and citizenship and learning about democracy and the rights and responsibilities of citizens,' it says."

"There is also a strong emphasis on caring for the environment and reconciliation."

Link To Entire Article-,,25331516-421,00.html

Or Here-

*Get 'em while they're young. Coming to a nation near you...
*Some really good comments in the comment section for this article.

By His Grace,

Anonymous said...

Was DHS “Rightwinger” Report Hyped As Pretext To Crack Down On Tax Protests?

Legitimate protest movements being misrepresented as “right-wing backlash”

A wave of mainstream media attention has led to increasing speculation that the Homeland Security report on “the rise of the right wing” was deliberately leaked and hyped as part of an effort to falsely categorize, demonize and crack down on legitimate protest movements that have nothing to do with the right-wing.

Yesterday the Washington Times picked up on the newly uncovered document which we covered in our article on Monday Now over 500 stories on the report pop up in a cursory google news search.

The report, entitled Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment (PDF link) was leaked to the Internet a few days ago. It equates gun owners with violent terrorists and states that radical extremists are “stockpiling” weapons in fear of an Obama administration gun ban.

The document characterizes concerns about the economy, unemployment, the loss of U.S. sovereignty and the move towards global government as “rightwing extremist chatter on the Internet” which itself is defined as a potential tool for terrorists to network, build bombs, and send encrypted messages to each other.

For more on this article:

Anonymous said...

Constance, in response to your comments, I would ask that you document that I asked you to remove Joyce from posting. You can't because it never happened. I have no idea where that idea came to you. I never asked in writing or verbally that you do that. No Catholics asked that you ban Joyce because she bashed Catholics although you accused them of doing so. I don't think it is the business of anyone reading here as to what is going on as the topic is New Age and not gossip. I respect your work, your intelligence and your history in fighting the New Age movement. Even today I referred several people to this website. We are adults. Let's leave it at that.


Anonymous said...

Some thoughts on the False Prophet. Reading Revelation, the word used describing the false prophet is that he comes "out of the earth", as opposed the beast who "rises out of the sea". The definition for False - substitute for something natural, counterfeit, supplementary, faithless, deceptive. Definition of Prophet - a prophet knows, sees, relays messages from the one who sends him, speaks the will of his god, and can perform miracles. Researching "earth" the two most abundant elements on earth are 1) oxygen and 2) silicon. In Biblical terms "sea" is peoples, tongues, multitudes, whereas contrasting "earth" means lack of people, wilderness, originating from another location than sea.

Artificial Prophet/Silica based technology - superhuman capability/knowledge, created by man for the benefit of man, does not represent God, can reproduce miracles ie. call fire down from heaven (lasers, etc), knows human identities/profiles, makes images that move and speak, FX, can make man take a number/mark, programs named after mythological entities/gods, ether/daemons/servers, man relies/trusts in it, runs world financial systems, tool used as omnipotent overview. An entity can be real or artificial and have legal "human rights". New Agers refer to silica as the prophet stone.

Reading Revelation 13:11-18 referencing what the false prophet who "comes up out of the earth" will do in the sight of the beast and cause those who dwell on the earth to do...would it necessary mean it's a man?

Anonymous said...

Fusion Centers: go to niki raapana's site to learn about them. Anti-Communitarian

Anonymous said...

Linda Schrock Taylor has a good one at Lew Rockwell today. She, too, thinks Barry Soetoro AKA Barack Hussein Obama is a usurper. She explains why Americans refuse to consider that apparent fact.

Healthy Living and Other Things said...

Hi Constance,
The first time I heard you was in the summer of 2006 when my twins were 6 months old. I have been your fan ever since. I heard you on Dr Stan Monteith's show. I thank you for doing all this tiring, I am sure, work to inform the uninformed.

I pray for your protection as you continue to write about the evils of our government and others.

Joyce said...

Well, I glad to see that everyone is at least talking again..

From my perspective, I would like to clarify what I have done here. I never bash Catholics, I'm talking about people who are affiliated with and attend the Catholic Church in the same way I don't bash Protestants, Evangelicals, Jews, Messianics. I will talk about anyone and everyone's organizations when I see that they are leading people to deception, according to what the Scriptures say. Scripture is my only guide, so that's where I'm coming from..

I have brought up what various religious organizations are up to as it relates to the New Age Movement. As you will not from my first post on this blog, I mentioned a number of denominations, including the ecumenic unity of Messianics in Jerusalem II Council, mysticism, etc. I have critiqued doctrine of the Catholic Church, but never people.

The reasons I do this is because I genuinely believe with all my heart, that all of the subjects I brought up will play a role in end time deception, period. I'm sure there are others on the blog who see it differently, and they are entitled to express their opinion on that. We can learn things from each other, even when we disagree.

I haven't said anything unkind about anyone on the blog, at least not deliberately. If I have offended anyone by accident, I apologize. That's never my intention.

Since we have just spent a week eating matzah and getting the leaven out of our lives ( for those of you not familiar with what the Feast of Unleavened bread is about) I think it would be good to keep the leaven off the blog too.

Yeshua is our matzah and when we eat of Him, we have His righteousness, so for those of us who believe in Him, we try to walk in the righteousness that's been accorded us by His atoning work.. I don't do that for anyone here, but because of my relationship with God, first and foremost. There are times I could have easily hurled insults at someone, but I don't and won't because my walk with God is more important to me than some momentary satisfaction of insulting someone back who insulted me. There is an expression in Hebrew called "lashon hara" bad mouth, and we as followers of the Bible are not supposed to do this.

There's some not so subtile distinctions between insulting a person and critiquing and organization. I hope the people on the blog here are discerning enough to know the difference.

I have nothing against any of the Jews, Catholics, Lutherns, Methodists, Pentacostals, Messianics or anyone else on the blog as people.. My arguments have to do with doctrine and how I see it leading to error..and ultimately complete deception.

Now, having said that, I realize that there are some on the blog that are more sensitive about the doctrine of their organizations and take my comments personally so I have tried to tone it down a bit, but it was never my intention to insult anyone on the blog personally, but rather get them to see trends that are going on out there which are significant, particularly the push towards ecumenic unity. I assume most people on the blog follow God, not an organization, but this might be a mistake on my part.

I think Constance believes in freedom of speech and even if she doesn't agree with someone, based on that principle she lets them express their opinions, so I'm guessing that is the reason that she hasn't asked me or anyone else for that matter to stop posting. I have heard her ask that the insults stop, which is actually reasonable.

There's a lot of things people say on the blog that I disagree with, but they are entitled to their opinions and I am entitled to mine....

Anyway, all that to say Dorothy, I have no desire to get in the way of a 20 or 30 year relationship that you have with Constance, so personally I hope you can straighten that out privately and come back. If I were you, personally, I wouldn't allow a total stranger to interfere with my relationship with an old friend. Forgiveness is what Yeshua is all about.
I know you don't claim to believe in Him, but I am just explaining that He comes to give us freedom from our hurts, because He bore our sins too.

When we accept His forgiveness for our sins, we can also agree to forgive others for the perceived sins ( or real sins) that they have committed against us. This is the beauty of the Gospel.

The Bible says that we have ALL fallen short of the glory of God, that none of us is without sin, except for one and that is Yeshua the Messiah. Through His atoning working we can be freed from our sins and forgive others for theirs. There is no Temple, so Yom Kippur cannot be properly performed, but God did not leave us without a means of atoning for our sins. In fact He did more than just "cover" our sins.

On the contrary, He Himself paid one time for all. Because I believe that with all of my heart, I can forgive others, even when they have offended me. I'm sure like you, I've had quite a few offenses against me in my life, but Yeshua has removed them all and freed me from my slavery to sin, which is why He is truly my Passover Lamb.

If we are going to study the New Age and end time prophecy, and be serious about it, we really need to look at all the world religions and see what role they are playing in leading people into deception. This is my firm conviction, so when I write, it is only with this in mind, never to hurt people.

I think in the days ahead, those of you are thinking and watching will see a lot of my concerns play out on the world stage, so maybe you will understand better my motives for raising these issues and give me the benefit of the doubt.

Shalom in Yeshua,

Joyce said...

To illustrate my point about the concerns I have about all the fusing of religions into a new tower of Babel, I want to post the "partners page" from ONE, the organization that will be involved with the agenda to feed the hungry and fix global warming:

I would encourage you all to take a careful look at these partners which include Bill and Melinda Gates, Islamic Relief, Reformed Judaism as well as another Jewish organization, the UN, the Lutherns, the Catholics, the Presbyterians, etc, etc,

Micah Challenge includes the NAE, one of the largest evangelical organizations in US, about 50 million members if I'm not mistaken.

Bono, who is not a believer at all is the 2008, man of the year.

Now who is going argue with the idea of feeding hungry children in Africa? It is through the social justice card that UN and other like organizations are working to unite, otherwise very different groups. How could that be bad? We have peace, food, water etc.

My personal opinion is this is the biggest deception to hit the planet. The UN Millennial Development Goals are becoming the model for how religious organizations focus their energy.

Now don't misunderstand me, we are not supposed to ignore suffering but Yeshua said, "the poor" we would always have among us. Why did He say this? He fed hungry people, so He was not against taking care of felt needs of human beings..

The point is that all the efforts to fix AIDs, Global Warming, vaccinate children, make clean water, feed the hungry is becoming the excuse to create world unity and world peace. If we say, we don't want to go along with these organizations, we will appear cold and heartless, almost inhuman.

It's the best deception since sliced bread... Now we will have Bible believers naively working alongside and merging resources with Muslims, with humanistic aetheists, Hindus, whoever. The focus will be creating heaven on earth.

Yeshua is coming back to reign from Jerusalem and there will be a New Jerusalem coming down from above after His thousand year reign.. The Millennium when He reigns things will be different, but the UN has another Millennial plan and it isn't Messiah's. It's more along the lines of Alice Bailey and Goodwill.

Now, I hate having occult books around and especially despise reading them, but I confess that I had to read some of where Alice Bailey was coming to understand all of this.. so I did read some of her writing and then threw it out because it is so dark and so evil I didn't want it in my home.

Alice Bailey's plan included infiltrating churches and religious organizations that would not normally buy into her agenda. This is actually what is happening today, I believe. The big mainline organizations are getting suckered, all for the good causes of "helping the planet" but they seem to have forgotten that we are not supposed to have anything to do with darkness, but to expose it.

These well-meaning, very large and influential organizations are being duped. Take a careful look at all of these groups, and see how brilliantly Satan is working to bring the deception on the nations.

Keep your eyes open this week with George Mitchell in the Middle East and the Pope going second week of May. The King of Jordan has been very vocal about the need to push for a 2 State solution. Supposedly, the two factions of Palestinians have come to an agreement which they will announce, and in the meantime Hizb'allah has violated all UN agreements by smuggling weapons to Palestinians. The UNIFIL forces in Lebanon are kind of a big joke.

...but the White House has a new puppy, who cares about all this.


Joyce said...

Just an example of how Bible believers in the ONE are mixing with organizations promoting works of darkness, is PSI, an organization that focuses on "reproductive health" a euphemism for helping with abortions. Here is how they distribute the "morning after pill" which is nothing more than an abortion pill:

It is pharmaceutical abortion, no more, no less and there are risks associated with it for the mother too:

I hope some of you can begin to see the problem with these affiliations.


Joyce said...

The Global Healing organization is another one with interesting links:

Here's the list of organizations. Pretty amazing, but I hope you all go to the ONE site and do some searching for yourselves, but bear in mind, we now have Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Evangelicals, Jews, Muslims all working together with one another and with many of these New Age organizations listed below..

Alliance for the New Humanity AZ DOP Campaign
A Better Community For All Cirlcle the Earth
the Children & Nature Network Domes For The World Foundation
Earth Charter USA Environment Ministries of Southern California
Faith Partners of the Americas Faithful America
Four Worlds Institute Friends of the United Nations
Gaden Monastic University Global Community Initiatives
Global Healing Youth High Road For Human Rights
Holladay United Church of Christ International Pastoral Care Network for Social Responsibility
Kids Against Hunger Kosmos Journal
Let Justice Roll
Maphunziro Foundation URI Malawi
Mid-Hudson Valley URI
Millennium Campaign

Millennium Project NCC Interfaith Relations
North American Coalition on Religion and Ecology Ocean Future's Society
Population Media Center Quest for Global Healing
Regeneration Project Rosado Consulting
RMC UMC Church and Society Network for Peace and Justice Seek Wellness
Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance Universal Interfaith Peace Mission
Unity Spiritual Center of Utah United Religions Initiative
at the United Nations
Utah Society for Environmental Ed. United Communities of Spirit
Washington D.C. URI Waves of Change
WHALE Center Windstar Foundation
World Association of NGO's World Business Academy
World Peace Prayer Society

United Religions Initiative

United Nations Environment Programme

World Business Academy

Light Up the World


Joyce said...

Here are some more interesting alliances to end hunger:

This is the beginning of a global tax, under the guise of fighting hunger, UN will begin to have taxing power:

Maybe those people who were rebelling yesterday should take up this cause. We will eventually see our tax dollars ( or whatever the new currency will be called) going to a global organization.


Joyce said...

Sorry, one more. I get very upset when I see this kind of thing, and it's not because I am against helping poor people..that's not the point.


Joyce said...

At the National Cathedral, which has been discussed on this blog, we have the Labyrinth. Compare what they say about it to the real history:

and here's info about the modern use of Labyrinths which has become another tool of mystical, ecumenic unity:


Joyce said...

One last post, this is Wisdom University, at Chartres:

So, just by following the links from the interfaith, to the national cathedral to labyrinths, we can trace it to it's logical conclusion, utter deception.

If you think I am exaggerating.. think again. This is why God said to the Israelites, "don't do what the nations do..." Knowing Torah is pretty important. How easy it is to be deceived.


Rudi said...

Thanks Joyce,
I understand exactly what you are pointing out regarding the
push for unity and the underlying
deception. The kind of "charity" being coerced, the compassion and forgiveness currently in vogue has GUILT not Love as its motivator.
That's why the enemy has used his oldest trick...
"Do unto others" It's worked for him more than a few times over the past 2000 + years.


paul said...

Anonymous 1:07,
Where did you get your definition of "Prophet"?
That definition is not a biblical definition, and
is in fact distinctly New Age. That definition
elevates every nut case Benjamin Creme to
the status of Prophet.
Revelations 19:10 tells us that "..the testimony of
Jesus is the spirit of prophesy". All others would be
considered FALSE.

Anonymous said...

For anyone who wants to sort this out:

It appears some Danes are questioning the 9-11 tales also.

Anonymous said...

Dorothy it probably would have been more appropriate for you to discreetly move to another blog without announcing it as you did. That really wasn't necessary.

Anonymous said...


What is your definition of a prophet? I think Anon 1:07 was defining a false prophet. A false prophet speaks from men, not God.
So Anon 1:07 is correct in that he is describing a false prophet, and Benjamin Creme is most definitely a false prophet, right? The better question is whether he is "the false prophet" refered to in Revelation or not.


In religion, a prophet is a person who has claimed to have been encountered by the supernatural or the divine, often one who serves as an intermediary with humanity.

In Christianity a prophet (or seer — 1 Samuel 9:9 ) is one inspired by God through the Holy Spirit to deliver a message for a specific purpose. It is often associated with predicting future events, but in Biblical terms it is wider and can include those given the power to preach repentance to those who do not want to hear the message and to warn of God's wrath for disobedience. God's calling as a prophet is not considered to elevate an individual for their glory, but for the glory of God and to turn people to him. Some Christian denominations would limit that and exclude those who receive a personal message not intended for the body of believers, but in the Bible on a number of occasions prophets were called to deliver personal messages [9]. The reception of a message is termed revelation and the delivery of the message is termed prophecy.

Anyone who claims to speak God's words or teach in his name and is not a prophet the Bible terms a false prophet. One test given in the Old Testament in Deuteronomy [10] contains a warning of those who prophecy events which do not come to pass and said they should be put to death. Elsewhere a false prophet may be someone who is purposely trying to deceive, is delusional, under the influence of Satan (for detail, see main article False prophet) or is speaking from his own spirit[11].


I don't say that I agree with Anon 1:07's assessment, but I do think he has a valid question. The problem here is that just as the Holy Spirit is refered to as He ( a person) so is the false prophet, so it would seem that what Paul is saying is also a valid point. New agers believe that the Holy Spirit is a force not a person, they believe in a cosmic Christ, not the personal Christ who was unique and walked the earth as The Way, the Truth and The Life.

So my point in saying this is that Paul is correct that Anon 1:7's definition does most certainly fit this pattern of deception for the new age camp.

One other possibility is that all of these ideas are just a setup for the real Anti-christ to destroy and claim that he is the true Christ. Satan knows prophecy better that we do, and don't you know he is a master deceiver. However, he is only capable of distorting God's truth and so he is working to copy God's plan as set out in Revelation. He knows what the Christian's are expecting and unlike us, Satan is a better student of History and human naturethan we are.

In all areas of prophecy we need to be very careful because we are never sure until these events take place if we have properly understood. We are to watch and pray and we will know if these things fulfull prophecy as they happen, but not before.

The religious leaders rejected Christ because they had already firgured out how "the Christ" would come and what he would do. We must be careful not to hold too tightly to our interpretations, but depend on the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to us as it takes place.

I appreciate all the good information shared on this site and I store it all up so that the Holy Spirit can bring it to my mind when or if it is true as prophecy unfolds.

I am trying to be faithful not to make any judgment before it's time.


Anonymous said...

Re: Valerie's post

Here is a blog site which supports the theory that the NWO is being set up to look like a fulfilment of Christian prophecy, only to be destroyed by the NEW AGE christ.

Just as the Catholic Church was created to destory true Faith, the NWO has been created to deceive Christians into thinking that the NWO is the enemy.

David Wilcox blog site:

The Great Awakening: 2012, Ascension and NWO Defeat

Anonymous said...

I forgot to mention for those who might not know, that David Wilcox is a New Ager.

Read with Caution

Anonymous said...


Texas Governor Rick Perry says the state may secede.

Perry made the comment after a Tax Day Tea Party speech he delivered at the Austin City Hall.

“An animated Perry told the crowd,” reports the Houston Chronicle, “that officials in Washington have abandoned the country’s founding principles of limited government. He said the federal government is strangling Americans with taxation, spending and debt.” He later told the media Texas might want to secede from the union. He then said, well, not really.

According to Politico, Perry’s theatrical rejection of Obama’s “stimulus” (debt to the bankers) money has “made him popular among the big government opponents who attended Wednesday’s ‘tea party’ events across the nation.”

However, It is extremely important to keep in mind:

1) Perry is running against fellow Republican Kay Bailey Hutchison, who he bombastically defines as part of the Washington problem, not the Texas solution.

2) Rick Perry is a consummate insider who is merely exploiting the tea party movement for his own shrewd political ends.

3) He was instrumental in the development of the Trans-Texas Corridor, part of the CFR’s plan to build a “North American Community.” The NAFTA ’superhighway’ linking Mexico, the U.S. and Canada is already underway. A Texas legislator tried to stop this massive mile-wide structure, but Texas Gov. Rick Perry vetoed the bill.

4) He was at the center of a plan to privatize Texas Utilities and sell them off to global investment firms, including the bankster outfits Goldman Sachs and Credit Suisse First Boston.

5) He also advocated subjecting Texans to the HPV vaccine.

6) Rick Perry is a Bilderberger who attended the Bilderberg Group meeting in Istanbul, Turkey, in 2007.

7)“In June of 2007, Ron Paul said Perry’s elbow rubbing with the cabal of notorious Constitution-hating globalists and royalty should be investigated under the Logan Act. The Logan Act is a federal law that forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments and is a felony punishable with imprisonment of up to three years.

8)The CFR, with Rick Perry’s help, is working to convert “the U.S. from a sovereign Constitution Republic into a servile member of a one-world dictatorship,” as Congressmen John R. Rarick once described it.

9) He is not a friend of the Constitution and the Tenth Amendment.

The above was condensed from the following article: -the-tea-party-movement-and-states-rights/

Anonymous said...

Looking for comment on this article:

Anonymous said...

After 30 years of providing serious information and support, I had no intention of skulking off. There was a following for my information here. I am being very appropriate by keeping my reasons private, between Constance and myself. As I said, this is a place for information about the New Age movement, not gossip.


Anonymous said...

Paul, the definition of prophet came from the dictionary. The point I was trying to make is that satan is not Omnipotent, so perhaps might rely on technology for deception (false prophecies along the lines of high-tech Oracle, silent sound, web bots, databases, etc.) The point I was trying to make is that the new agers prefer "knowledge" over Truth, some NA lit refers to this age as the third testament (knowledge is freedom) vs. the Old and New Testament (Truth). It ties into the original lie in the Garden of Eden when satan said Genesis 3:5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. It's still the same old lie (man being offered "knowledge" by satan and promising him he will be like God.) I was speculating that this time false prophecy won't be presented via a piece of fruit, but in a new high-tech presentation that people will swallow. People are easily deceived by all forms of silica based technology (digital TV, liquid crystal screens, etc)

Sorry you did not read the post as it was intended. It was just speculation, like others who assume the last Pope or Rick Warren is the FP.

Constance Cumbey said...

Dear SV,

Thank you for the Australian Early Childhood Learning Framework. It has every New Age and beyond earmark on it. From birth to 5 years old . . . "Outcomes based" . . .

OUTCOMES BASED EDUCATION for the very youngest and smallest. Robert Muller claimed to be the author of outcomes based education, but he said he could not take credit for it -- the real credit, he said, had to go to DJWHAL KHUL as in "The Tibetan Master" (i.e. demon) who channeled "telepathically" (possession) through Alice Ann Bailey foundress of Lucifer Publishing Company and then Lucis Trust,


disgusted said...

SPEAKING OF CATHOLIC BASHING . . . from the anonymous who wrote:

"Just as the Catholic Church was created to destory [sic] true Faith, the NWO has been created to deceive Christians into thinking that the NWO is the enemy. . .

Somebody's been reading Jack Chick instead of the Bible and listening to Alberto Rivera's easily disprovable tales . . .


Anonymous said...

Watching quietly for many months, here are my preferredly anonymous observations:

1. Dorothy said MANY unkind things about Joyce.
2. Joyce said MANY unkind things about Catholics.
3. Joyce did not say unkind things about Dorothy.
4. Dorothy said she was Constance's friend.
5. I heard Constance say nothing bad about Dorothy.
6. Dorothy said lots of unkind things about Constance
a. "glaring weakness"
b. insinuations that there hidden, darker things that cannot be said.
7. Dorothy accused Joyce of "high-jacking the blog".
8. It looks to me like Dorothy has attempted a hi-jacking of the blog.

It looks to this observer that Constance, Dorothy, Joyce, Rudi, JV, Susanna, etcl have ALL made valuable contributions.

It further looks to me that if Dorothy is Constance's friend, that maybe Constance needs no enemies.

I am still praying that everybody will kiss and make up, but if not, everybody should remember where the real vitriol on this discussion forum came -- to my observation, presently - sorry to say it -- DOROTHY!

What does everybody else think?

DavidinB.C. said...


Does this mean we'll never see the end of the Wiggles? Fusion center. Sounds more like confusion center. I think the tea parties seemed rather peaceful. They made their point and made known their opinion on government spending that has no hope of turning around the economy. Keeping the economy in crisis is a good thing, apparently.

Bleedin Red White and Blue Baby! said...

Anon 1:07 and others,

The false prophet of Revelation a) Must be represented by a man or even two men since scripture tells us this beast has two horns and b) a kingdom as well. The description John gives of the false prophet being a "beast" with "two horns" tells us this plainly. Since according to Daniel a beast represents a kingdom and horns represent kings. As for Creme, unless his association with the UN is more than meets the eye, I would say this disqualifies him from being "the false prophet", but a false prophet he is certainly.

Bleedin Red White and Blue Baby! said...

Anon 11:57,

While I can see the attempt you are trying to make, placing blame only will drag you into the argument. Many have tried, including myself, to make peace between all parties, we have all failed. Constance has attempted to remain neutral only to be villified, for showing compassion to one side or the other. This subject is better left untouched for those not involved.

Anonymous said...

OK - well -
to anonymous 10:25 looking for a comment on the web sight

Here is Psalm 2 -
please read verse 2 carefully -
(also - see if the owrd conspiracy is found in the bible)
Psalm 2 (King James Version)
Psalm 2
1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

If I am taking counsel together - I am conspiring.

And to Disgusted @ 11:46 -


Anonymous said...


Yes true.

But there is perfect scripture.


Anonymous said...

From anon 1:07 and 10:54
Thanks JD for your input.
With all the anonimity, not to mention contentiousness, perhaps it's best if I sign my posts to avoid being mistaken for another poster.


SV said...

Dear David in B.C.,

By His Grace,

SV said...

Dear JD,
I watched the MTV Youtube video yesterday.
Nasty propaganda to be airing to the kids.
I'm one of those peeps who wants as much detail as I can get, so I read the comments section from the video, as well as visiting the website of the posters of the video.
A question that keeps popping up for me as a result of reading all of that junk is this:
What is the purpose for all these individuals denying/questioning the holocaust? There is too much documented evidence and eyewitness accounts that makes any denial absolutely ridiculous. Any knowledge of the Old Testament- history of Israel- for these folks would immediately prove that there's been holocaust in the past against the Israelites, so the answer is simply that yes- Israel has been persecuted severely, at times, throughout history and most recently in history- at the hand of Nazi Germany.
Is this denial tied directly into the New Age Movement as some kind of strategy?
Sorry if these are silly questions, and maybe I should know the obvious answers to them or something. But I don't understand the purpose or goal of this kind of propaganda.

I don't mean to put you on the spot for the answers, JD. I'd like to hear what you and others think about this. :-)

By His Grace,

Anonymous said...

anon 10:06
Thanks for posting that info. about Rick Perry. I was hoping someone would point out that he tried to force that HPV vaccine on all girls. You added some extra stuff. Perry is a wolf, a political prostitute like nearly all the rest of his kind.

Anonymous said...


URL to article:

Anonymous said...

Someone whom I may have offended with the Gospel (and my oposition to abortion and same-sex marriage) happens to work at the OHS. They just emailed me a copy of the new document and entitled it "interesting reading." Do you think they create files on people? Should I worry? This person is very low level. I'm a little rattled.

Anonymous said...


URL to article:

Joyce said...

Anonymous 11:57,

I'll repeat, I never insulted any Catholics on this blog personally, nor would I. That is a false statement that you made, and I don't know if it is a problem of not reading my remarks correctly or not understanding how to interpret them, although I think I've tried to be clear.


joyce said...

Anonymous 11:57,

I'll add to my previous comment that I don't considering critiquing the Catholic Church insulting individual Catholics, just like when I critique Rick Warren ( which I have also done) it's not that I am critiquing all Southern Baptists.

Having said that, I understand that some Catholics here are quite sensitive about their beliefs so I have tried to be more careful about what I say here for the sake of peace, but that doesn't mean I will never cite things that the Catholic Church does again. I'd just like to put it in context.

We critique the UN, US government, politicians, kings rulers, so I don't think the Catholic Church is somehow exempt. If I follow that logic, then we will not criticize Islam or Judaism, or other branches of Christianity or Messianics, which means we will fall into the trap of accepting the Organization of Islamic Countries' idea to cut of any and all criticism of religion. How convenient.

If I do, it should be understood that it is because prophetically speaking, I am concerned about the trends I see going on, not to mention I have serious concerns problems with the whole basis of Catholicism which I have talked about in the past. My main objective is to point out how certain trends, namely the ecumenic movement, which Vatican II opened the door for and now everyone and their uncle is participating it, is deceptive is part of the apostasy.

In some earlier posts, I pointed out how many of these religious organizations are now banding together to fight global hunger, AIDs, global warming, etc. to the exclusion of their beliefs.

Because they have substituted the UN's wisdom, with God's wisdom, they are uniting against God Himself under the guise of "doing good" without knowing it.

When all the people wanted to help Nimrod build a tower, I'm sure they thought it was a pretty good thing to reach to the heavens with their tower. The point is, they did not follow God's instructions.

I don't know if you are familiar with the story when Saul was told to destroy all of the Amalekites and disobeyed God. Here's what the prophet Samuel said to King Saul:

1Sam. 15:22-23 Samuel said, “Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
As in obeying the voice of the LORD?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
nd to heed than the fat of rams. “For rebellion is as the sin of divination, And insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He has also rejected you from being king.”

Now, during the time of the kings Israel did not heed the Word of God and followed the nations:

2Kings 17:7-8 Now this came about because the sons of Israel had sinned against the LORD their God, who had brought them up from the land of Egypt from under the hand of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, cand they had feared other gods and walked in the customs of the nations whom the LORD had driven out before the sons of Israel, and in the customs of the kings of Israel which they had introduced.

If anything, I hope that some of my comments on the blog would provoke some to think a little...I mostly quote from the Word of God, if you take time to examine most of my posts and if you think about what my motives are. I don't say things in hatefulness because honestly, I don't have hatred towards anyone on the blog.

If I critique institutions or public figures, "the shepherds" who I consider to be responsible, I am not attacking people on the blog, so I hope that is understood once and for all. I really do make a separation between the institution, it's leaders and its followers whether it's the Catholic Church, Islam, Southern Baptists, the Methodists, Reformed Judaism, etc, etc,

Just because I am an American, it does not mean I am responsible for all of the decisions that our country makes, nor am I in agreement, so if someone insults my leaders or government, I can honestly and objectively assess what they said and decide whether I agree or disagree... I don't have to take those remarks personally..

So, Susanna ( not picking on her, but she's the only Catholic who posts in her own name) is not responsible for the ruling of the Council of Nicea in 325 a.d. ( as a very blatant example). Therefore, when I criticize, out of my own personal convictions and understanding of the Scriptures, the rulings from the Council of Nicea, I am not meaning anything against Susanna. Now, she might disagree with me and has, and that's fine, so what? Where's the problem?

If we want to follow the OIC's ruling that we need to apply it across the board, so no more criticism of Rick Warren, Pat Robertson, David Hunt, Islam, Ervin Laszlo, Tony Blair, Barack Obama, etc..

What if we bring up subjects like homosexuality and some homosexual accuses us of hatred towards them? Does that make it true? I personally don't hate anyone, but there are institutions and ideas and a beliefs that I have problems with.

I guess my point is where do we draw the line? This is either a place where people can express their views about things that related to prophetic fulfillment about a One Word Religion, which has been called the New Age, or we can just pick and chose. I don't agree with everyone who writes here and neither do they have to agree with me. We are simply expressing views, sharing information and we can pick and chose what interests us and what doesn't, no more, and no less. As adults, we should try to keep name-calling and insults out of it because that only distracts from the ideas presented and creates unnecessary confusion.

Okay, this is a long post, but I felt it important to take the time to explain myself, since I read a lot of things that others write about me that are simply not true.. If you want to accuse me of being opinionated, analytical, passionate, intense, strong-minded, stubborn, zealous.. to all of those things I can say, true, but to say that that I am bashing people simply not true...Those that know me, know better.


Joyce said...

Kind of ironic, call it God's timing. I found this in my inbox immediately after I finished the last post:


Setterman said...

We are weak because we don’t love. We are weak because we want our lusts and our spirituality, and that invites the New Age into our hearts and into our culture.

I have noted in the past that Islam’s cruelty to women never seems to raise a word of protest from the left, and I think Cilfford D. May may have something in this commentary out of the FDD, but note that he includes those on the “Right” that think Zionism is behind all that’s evil in the world.
The KKK is just as evil as Islam, and I find that there are those in our number who would hold to KKK ideals and even try to miss quote great preachers to “prove” their point. (The devil uses the Bible)
We seem to notice the clay between the toes of a statue, but do we stand against that which makes us weak? Tell you what, even Christians, who are now despised by almost everyone, when they show anti-Israel sympathies will get hurrahs.

Anonymous said...

Cal Thomas and the Gospel of the Pharisees

by Christopher Manion
by Christopher Manion

Save a link to this article and return to it at www.savethis.comSave a link to this article and return to it at Email a link to this articleEmail a link to this article Printer-friendly version of this articlePrinter-friendly version of this article View a list of the most popular articles on our siteView a list of the most popular articles on our site

Cal Thomas, the widely-syndicated Christian columnist, fairly salivated for years over Bush’s foreign forays and his "Big Government Conservatism" at home. But now Cal has suddenly delivered a blast against government spending ostensibly based on principle. Should we take him seriously? After all, perhaps he’s just upset because it’s the Democrats doing the spending this time.

Thomas has promoted himself as the poster boy of "Christian" op-ed values for years, but I wonder if his frequent indulgence in hypocrisy isn’t more reminiscent of the Pharisees. In beating the drum for war, Cal the Christian has led his fawning flock down a treacherous path, running the risk of trading true Christianity (and millions of souls) for a this-worldly, politicized, and murderous sect run by Armageddonites and bellicose nonbelievers. If the recent reports that Christianity is losing adherents in America are true, a goodly portion of that attrition might well be attributed to the poisonous propaganda that Mr. Thomas, Pastor Hagee, and their neocon allies have served up in service of war, war, war – always in the name of the Prince of Peace.

Look at Thomas Monday, assailing astronomical government deficits under those nasty Democrats! Now look at the same Cal in January, cuddling lap-dog of the outgoing big-war-spender George Bush on his last visit to the Oval Office. Is this mere cognitive dissonance? Look further: during the presidential primaries in February 2008, Christian Cal was channeling David Frum and criticizing principled conservatives for not backing pro-war big spender John McCain. "Too many modern conservatives seem embedded in a concrete slab of pessimism, preferring to go over a bridge and drown rather than ‘compromise’ their ‘principles,’" he wrote, employing the mocking scare-quotes in the original. Gee, Cal must think those Christian martyrs of old were pretty pessimistic too, preferring to hang on to their faithful principles unto death, and getting only a concrete slab (although possibly salvation as well) for their efforts.

After all this, are we suddenly to believe that Christian Cal has suddenly gotten religion?

The more likely explanation for Cal’s outburst during the primaries is that he was obviously vexed with Dr. Ron Paul, who was telling the truth about the war, the Fed, and the profane profligacy of both political parties. And guess what? Cal actually admitted it: "If you can't get elected, your principles can be talked about on the lecture circuit, but are unlikely to be adopted in Washington," he wrote. (Gee, doesn’t that sound like the temptation that Satan used on Jesus in the desert? "All these kingdoms have been given to me…." [Luke 4])

In the light of all these deviations, we might ask, is this really a man who cares about principle at all? Or are these just the predictable perorations of a self-promoting personality cult addict? Christian Cal glides with ease from contradiction to contradiction – but committed Christians should read the label: this is the way of the neocon gospel, not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Yes, it was the sellouts and idolaters who betrayed conservatism and delivered the country to Obama’s revolutionaries on a silver platter – but it’s the people in the pews who have paid the price. Dr. James Dobson, a Christian leader who has kept politics at arms-length as a rule, recently observed the wreckage on the battlefields of the culture wars: "Humanly speaking," he said, "we can say that we have lost all those battles." I believe that Dr. Dobson is correct. And today it’s pretty obvious that the forces of banksters and neocons who brought us to ruin with profligacy at home and endless wars abroad could care less about the tens of millions of Christians without whose critical support George Bush would still be just another failed trust-fund-baby businessman.

It has been a very long and distressing eight years for traditional conservatives, however defined. Countless pro-family Christians were betrayed by their "leadership" who climbed aboard the Big-Government-Republican Hummer, even as the neocons were steering it off a cliff and giving the pro-family folks the back of their contemptuous hand. While the neocons (predictably) jumped ship before the crash and are now sitting pretty, the millions of Christians whom they masterfully manipulated continued to rely on bellicose palaver from the likes of Christian Cal. Thus, they remained faithful to Bush long after the neocons were betraying him left and right. Karl Rove never told them the signals had been changed; he didn’t dare – he needed their votes.

This is the essence of betrayal. As a result, today the conservative coalition is in ruins, sold out by the self-dealers, the war profiteers, the personality cultists, and the blatant opportunists who manipulated American patriotism and the faithful for their own private, and often very profitable, agendas. That Cal Thomas cheered them on is not only a blight on his judgment, but an enduring insult to millions of Christians in whose name he pretended to speak to power.

Lucky for Cal that Christ called on us to forgive. Forgive, yes. Follow? Never again, callous Cal.

April 17, 2009

Christopher Manion [send him mail] is a columnist for The Wanderer, America’s oldest independent Catholic newspaper, founded in 1868. He is president of Manion Music, LLC, which produces copyrighted, royalty-free music collections for telecommunications media and commercial and hospitality sites that use background music or music-on-hold. He writes from the Shenandoah Valley, where he is a volunteer Spanish translator for local law enforcement.

Copyright © Christopher Manion 2009. All Rights reserved.

Christopher Manion Archives

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12:11am,
no you should not worry - you should seek first the kingdom of heaven and all things will be added -
If proclaiming the truth of scripture puts anyone on a list - please sign me up -

astute observation Settermen


paul said...

Christopher Manion,
I think that once a columnist, such as
Mr Thomas, establishes himself as a
Conservative, or a Liberal or any other
political label, he is already sunk, because
the tables turn and the definitions change
and the game's parameters shift.
Cal Thomas made the mistake of becoming
a political commentator with a spiritual
agenda. He became a hypocrite, as you
very succinctly point out.
Nice writing.
I don't know if I believe That Cal Thomas
is truly evil though. I think he's just painted
into a corner, and probably stubborn, and
probably proud.

Leana said...

Anon 1:07

Regarding the False Prophet-
while an interesting line of thought there is one issue that does not really harmonize well. That would be, that the end of the False Prophet is in the Lake of Fire. The Lake of fire was prepared for the Devil and his Angels, but sinners will also go there. It is the second Death. I see no reason why Jesus would need to sieze the Beast and the False Prophet and throw them in right after Har-Megedon, if the FP was a robot (silica based lifeform). If it was not human it could just be disassembled.


Anonymous said...


Great point about the false prophet.


Rudi said...

Rich Peterson has shared his observations after reading the United States Department of Homeland Security Report on Rightwing Extremism:

"The cat was let out of the bag this week as Americans received a dose of reality from..."


SV said...


"This past week, the thought police was officially established in Israel. The news of its creation was delivered on radio and television stations by a relatively senior police officer, Commander David Bitan, who heads the Lachish district. And this is what Commander Bitan declared, in a somewhat festive tone: 'We shall prevent them from thinking that they can risk themselves and reach forbidden locations.' "

"Bitan was referring to a group of rightist demonstrators that declared ITS INTENTION to hold, in Sderot, a ceremony ahead of a march in the direction of the Gaza Strip. A thorough examination of his words will reveal that this was not a case of a mere slip of the tongue. The district commander did not only intend to prevent the symbolic march, but also the MERE MALICIOUS THOUGHT of holding it."

"The night before the planned march, the police raided the homes of the organizers and detained seven of them, he said. They did not manage to march even one step in the direction of their destination, and it is doubtful whether they even thought of marching, yet they found themselves behind lock and bar."

Link To Entire Article-,7340,L-3702541,00.html

Or Here-

*Minority Report in action...
By His Grace,

Bleedin Red White and Blue Baby! said...


I can't give black and white answers to your question, only suspicions I have. One would be that we know the movement to spread the truth in regards to the new age, UN, theosophical movement has been infiltrated by the likes of Jordan Maxwell, David Icke,and others. This may just be another prong along that line.
We also know that the plan is for total world depopulation, and some of us have even suspected they may be trying to get the masses to revolt only to give reason for the implementation of their plan. This could also fit with that same line. As far as the holocaust deniers, read the above two and to me this may explain it.

Constance has said ever so brilliantly that the truth of the new age is a cruel joke even on its own followers. As for the purpose of getting those to deny the holocaust, I believe it may be a way to keep those people from finding the truth when every thing starts to get nasty. For by that point they will be so indoctrinated with the lies that almost all hope will be gone.

The same can be said for Zeitgeist and many other things proclaiming the truth. This deception runs deep, and it appears they have thought of almost every scenario possible to keep people (the youth especially) from finding the Truth. An example I can give comes via my brother, whom I have wrote of before. Since he knows where I stand and the things we all see happening in the world he brought a CD to me to listen to by one of the bands he likes. This entire album was devoted to the coming apocalypse, only it was done with the new age overtones regarding planet x, and aliens, etc.

Which goes to the nature of what we are up against, as we proclaim the gospel, our enemies are proclaiming theirs, only they have far more worldly outlets in which to spread theirs. They have replaced the Truth with a lie, the Light with darkness, and the Way with confusion. In the end though I have to laugh at the hypocrites, they scoff and mock us for evangelizing, yet that is exactly what they are doing.

Anonymous said...


When I was reading Scripture, the word "earth" prompted me to notice a distinction in where the beasts arise from. My thoughts on this are not in the direction of a "robot". What I was trying to present in my post was the false prophet who comes "out of the earth", possibly arising literally out of the earth (silica), being that for the most part, silica based technology is being used as a modern day 24/7 Oracle of Delphi the whole world turns to, opposed to God's wisdom or being sensitive to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. The ancient Delphi, Oracle of Apollo (false prophet) sat on her three-legged stool and people came from all over to lay eyes on her, hear her visions, her prophecies, soothsaying... Today, we have a global silica based Delphi that people turn to for their forecasts, futures, soothsaying, and they put their trust in it. It is basically a high-tech Oracle that promotes the three-legged stool (marketplace, government and apostate religion) instead of sitting on one, and most unbelievers have put their faith not only in that stool, but are always tuning into the Oracle to find out what happens next, what to think about it (group think) and even how they should feel about it. It is an artificial prophet/false prophet, that has accumulated a great deal of synthetic omnipotence via databases, and the other things I mentioned in my previous post. It can be used to direct all attention to the beast (not that it doesn't already). My question was, does the false prophet referenced in Scripture necessarily describe a "holy man standing in a long robe looking and talking pious but practicing deception" a deceiver so powerful that snares the whole world into the lie and performs great signs, tells them to make an image, causes them to take a mark, and causes them to be killed who wouldn't take it.. all in the presence and in the sight of the first beast?

Could this type of false prophet be thrown into the Lake of Fire? Why not? I don't believe that when God makes all things new, silica technology will be there to provide a venue to CNN, Fox or any on-line site to have an exclusive expose' on breaking news in the New Jerusalem and instructing us to "stay tuned" because there are implications to the story.

The first thing Jesus told his disciples when they questioned Him about the end times - Luke 21:8 "Take heed that you are not deceived". I'm not saying I'm right, just keeping my eyes open so I am not deceived. If the FP turns out to be a "religious figurehead" than I will be guilty of having kept watch for more than I needed to, but at least I'm watching. But when I think of the word deception and its definitions, to borrow the words of Simon and Garfunkel "and the people bowed and prayed to the neon god they'd made", and wouldn't it be just like the devil to ensnare us by a false prophet of our own making.


paul said...

What the ?
THAT'S the departmint of hmxand sikurity ??
YIKES we're in some deeep stuff now.
I think they just invented tripletalk

Wait a minute, who am I supposed to hate now

Good Guesser said...

Just a guess:

Beast from the Sea: Javier Solana
Beast from the Earth: Barack Obama

SV said...

Dear JD,
Thanks so much for you wonderful input!
I'm reminded of Peter's exhortation to us in
I Pet.5:8, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour."

Come soon, O Lord!

Anonymous said...

A of C is here:

John McCain's top adviser from the presidential campaign urged fellow Republicans on Friday to warm up to gay rights and warned that the GOP risks becoming the "religious party" with its opposition to same-sex marriage.

He urged Republicans, in the near-term, to endorse civil unions and stop using the Bible as rationale for gay-marriage opposition.

Gay acceptance and promotion is exploading everywhere, as is the resentment toward the Bible and Christianity. The Bible warned of a delusion coming over people prior to His return.

You can't begin to understand this globally unified effort to promote the gay lifestyle without understanding the spiritual forces empowering the push.

With at most 3 percent of the population how is the gay agenda becoming the primary focus and cause of such a large part of the population?

Dave in CA

paul said...

Well, it was thanks in part to a little
book that came out in 1990 called
"After The Ball" which is no less than
a manifesto on how it would be
done, and lo and behold the
program worked, (much like Hitlers
"Mein Kampf" ).
Techniques include: Jamming,
Divide and Conquer, Obfuscation,
Marginalization and good old fashioned
lieing like a bearskin rug.

Jaclyn said...

Israel must be feeling pretty lonely right now, however, God always seems to fight for her...not because they are better than all the rest, it is simply His good pleasure. If God be for us, who can be against us?
Obama's stance worries Israelis
Jason Koutsoukis
April 18, 2009
CAN Israel still call the United States its best international friend? Apparently not, if you believe the tone of the local media.

Watching the drama unfold inside Israel, the increasingly tense dialogue between US President Barack Obama and new Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is taking on all the trappings of a duel.

Almost every day brings news of another sore point between the two countries, a source of yet further inflammation of their once warm relations.

One could be forgiven for thinking that the more immediate threat to Israel's national security lay across the Atlantic rather than from closer to home.

It is bad enough that President Obama uses almost every opportunity he can to set the parameters of a final peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians. Now US officials are openly using Israeli anxiety over Iran's fledging nuclear program as a bargaining chip to force Israel's hand on giving up control of the West Bank Palestinian territory.

No less a figure than White House chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel — whose father fought with the militant Zionist group the Irgun, and whose appointment had provided such reassurance to Israeli officials — was quoted this week laying down the law to Israel.

If Israel wants US help to defuse the Iranian threat, Mr Emanuel was reported to have told Jewish leaders in Washington, then get ready to start evacuating settlements in the West Bank.

Talkback radio blazed with fury across the country the same day, as Israelis protested that no US official had the right to tell them where to live.

Then on Thursday came the news that Mr Netanyahu's planned first meeting with President Obama in Washington next month had been called off.

Mr Netanyahu had hoped to capitalise on his attendance at the annual American Israel Public Affairs Committee conference in Washington to visit the White House.

But Administration officials informed Mr Netanyahu's office that the President would not be "in town".

Washington sources added that the Obama Administration would not be continuing the tradition that had developed during the Bush years of hosting Israeli prime ministers whenever they showed up in town, sometimes with just a phone call's notice.

It might have been no more than coincidence, but yesterday Israeli defence officials told the liberal daily Haaretz that Israel's $US15 billion ($A21 billion) purchase of 75 US-made F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jets was now under review due to "the unexpected high cost and disagreements with the manufacturer".

Contrary to initial expectations, President Obama has wasted no time becoming fully engaged in the Middle East peace process, despite the magnitude of his domestic political agenda. While Mr Netanyahu has refused to endorse a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict agreed to by his predecessor, President Obama has made it abundantly clear that the US will accept nothing less than Israel living side by side with a sovereign Palestinian state.

Mr Obama is also demanding a freeze on Jewish settlement expansion in the West Bank, and has dropped the Bush administration's opposition to Hamas being part of a future Palestinian Authority government.

According to prominent Israeli political commentator Maya Bengal, who writes for the country's second-largest selling newspaper Maariv, the holiday is over.

"As Passover comes to an end, so comes to an end, it seems, the days of grace granted to the Netanyahu Government by the American Administration," says the commentator.

Tel Aviv barman Meir Avraham, 30, says he can feel on the street the tensions being played out between the US and Israel.

"This is one of the the main things that the people are talking about at the moment," says Mr Avraham, who recently returned to Israel after several months in Townsville.

All Israelis, says Mr Avraham, understand the vital nature of the relationship between Israel and the US. "If we lose America, then we are alone," he says. "So we must listen to what America wants. But really I think this is more about the little brother testing the limits of the big brother."

Leana said...


Sorry I misunderstood you. I think your idea of the FP as silica based technology is great, but I think for the prophecy to be complete there needs to be a man and a kingdom behind it. The man to be thrown into the lake of fire (along with his deceptions) and his kingdom (the beast part of the beast of the Earth). I am sure it doesn't have to be a pious man in flowing robes to be a false prophet. I think it is strange for someone so prominent in Revelation to have very little mention anywhere else in the Bible.
Again, I find it an interesting theory. Piggybacking on the idea or the oracle of Delphi, keep in mind that the angel of the abyss is called Abaddon in Hebrew and Apollyon in Greek. The English translation should be Apollo. I played awhile back (probably in the archives somewhere) with all the connections between Apollo/Zeus/Artemis and modern day events. To sum up quickly, Apollo was the name of part of our Space program, Artemis is a name of part of the European space program. Zeus is the father of both Apollo and Artemis. Apollo is also the archer with a crown.

One other tidbit you might be able to find a connection with is in the Old Testament prophets, Jeremiah I think, it talks about Babylon who builds her towers to heaven. The Hebrew word for towers is transliterated NASA.

Let's keep working on it, this is an interesting line of reasoning.
Thanks for opening up that discussion.


Joyce said...


One point that is consistently overlooked by our administration and the Europeans is that the Palestinians refuse to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. It was stated again today, in JP by Hamas leader:

Now, what sane nation on the face of the planet would negotiate with someone that doesn't even acknowledge their right to exist. This fact in combination with the article I posted about the OIC's request to UN should give people a clue what is really going on here.

No one has the right to criticize Islam and the nation of Israel must negotiate with people who refuse to acknowledge their right to exist.

What most people don't realize is that Muslims consider that once they put their feet somewhere, it becomes "sacred property" and it's their Islamic duty to keep it, or take it back.

Islam represents 1/4 of the worlds population, and OIC is the largest voting block at UN. The UN has sponsored Durban II, a racist conference that is supposedly for human rights, which is being headed up by some of the biggest human rights violators in the world, such as Iran and Syria.

Yes, that would be the same Iran who is holding a US Iranian reporter and threatening to give her the death penalty for supposed espionage.. I suppose she'll get a very fair trial there, speaking of Human Rights:

Syria has helped kill a number of political leaders with car bombs in Lebanon, where it has not wanted to let go of it's very strong foothold.

Libya, the country that brought down an airliner in Lockerbie, Scottland.. Here's an interesting Forbes article about the UN and Libya:

I don't think the UN should exist period, but the writer does point out some inconsistencies in their "so-called human rights".

Durban II is being held on Hitler's birthday and coincides with Yom HaShoah. The UN is a very bad and dangerous joke..

The UN is a bad joke, and the Obama administration is giving it more credence. Obama's supporters like Soros are connected to the UN:

When the UN poverty tax is imposed, we will be officially tax payers of this evil organization.

In my first post on this blogspot, I highlighted some of the religious organizations that are actively and financially supporting the UN agenda in their Millennial Development Goals, everyone from the Catholics, to the Protestants, Evangelicals, Jews and Muslims. If this isn't the tower of Babel being built to oppose God, I don't know what is..

Shabbat shalom,

Eric said...

To Good Guesser at 6:39 p.m. and continuing where Joyce left off with her last post at 1:38 a.m., here is my take on what we see developing:
1. The beast that is depicted as coming out of the sea in Revelation 13 represents the ten nations making up the Western European Union (WEU) which gave its power to the personality representing the Common Foreign and Security Policy of the European Union, one Javier Solana (See Rev. 17:13). And this appears to have been correctly called by the founder of FP, I have forgotten his name, and Constance picked up on through him. These ten nations are also referred to and represented in Daniel 2 as ten toes.
2. Finally, the beast depicted in Revelation 13:11,
". . . which rose out of the earth {and having} two horns like a lamb and {speaking} as a dragon. . . ." (symbolizes the false religious systems of this world), I believe it could very well be what we see coming to fruition in the organization known as the Alliance of Civilizations (AoC) that Rich is so admirably covering in his blog and by the way that Farmer correctly called, I think, as this beast so represented.
What concerns me now is that I heard reported on NPR yesterday that the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is going to proceed on what I think is the false premise of global warming being caused by CO2, which common sense belies since we all know that the sun is the driver of climate and weather on the earth, but this lie or delusion is convenient for their (NWO) purposes of absolute control as illustrated by Al Gore's propaganda piece.

Setterman said...

Joyce, Eric, thanks for bringing the right, the good summation of what is going on.
Judging by some of the pictures I’ve seen of the various “Tea Parties” there is a surge of belief, but I think it is too late, too little, and too diluted. When OHS can tell governmental entities not to use the word “terrorism” attributed to Islam or nations like Iraq, but OHS uses it describing those American opposed to abortion, for example, and when everywhere advertisers are using “Global warming” as their paradigm, we have to hold on to our faith; I wish we could hold onto one another, but I have seen a great falling away.
“If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”

Jaclyn said...

Joyce, I completely agree. Israel is expected to make concessions that put her at great risks in the name of peace! It's outrageous. No doubt there is a Satanic intelligence behind the whole thing.

I haven't been posting too much lately, just kind of absorbing everything. This administration is more hostile and moving quicker than I ever expected, and they are getting by with it.

As far as I'm concerned the Tea parties are too little too late, many of the attendees probably voted for Obama. The problem is too many people have no discernment or critical thinking skills, and no moral foundation from which to judge.

No one protests the millions of babies killed daily in this country, they didn't become outraged until their money was tampered with...I only see judgement ahead, but oh if we could only get a glimpse of the glory that waits just beyond the darkness.

Remember, we'll all be home after dark!

Anonymous said...

Did you guys see this one?
Remarks With Javier Solana, Secretary General of the Council of the European Union and High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy Before Their Meeting

See the video too!

"Thank you. Thank you very much, Secretary of State Hillary. We have spent almost a week together in Europe, and today we have to separate for a longer period of time. (Laughter.) We will continue working and keep on putting into practice the important decision that we are taking in terms of our meetings that (inaudible) happening between the Europeans and bring us together (inaudible)."

Carrie...will you help intercede for us left behind with this mess!

Anonymous said...

They got to Glenn Beck

Jaclyn said...

Anonymous, good youtube! I watched Glenn flip his position within 24 hours, it made me so mad, it's great to see the clips back to back.

Anonymous said...

Ya I think he has to play their games for now... but you could tell he was really upset about it... I would not be surprised if he leaves Fox and starts reporting on a more free site while he can... I think we should all pray for him... I think he's one of the good guys.

Joyce said...

I would like to empower the person who is waiting for Carrie to intercede for them by quoting the living Word of God, to see their own position and authority, and identity if they are a believer in Yeshua:

Heb. 4:16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

The reason that you can do this is because as Scripture says:

Eph. 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in bkindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

I am not trying to in any way put down your memory of Carrie, but rather point you to the spiritual reality that exists for those of us who are "in Yeshua the Messiah".

Something very amazing happened following Yeshua's death:

Matt. 27:51 aAnd behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split

Now, if you remember Moses constructed the tabernalce ( a portable Temple) according to the pattern given to him and only the high priest could enter one time a year at Yom Kippur, to atone for the sins of the entire assembly.

When Yeshua died He redeemed us once and for all. This is the great news of Scripture:

Heb. 9:11-12 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things 1to come, He entered through cthe greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He centered the holy place once for all, 1having obtained eeternal redemption.

That need that we previously had for an intermediary was done away with because Yeshua Himself became our High Priest, but a High Priest who removed our sins completely once and for all:

Heb. 9:15 For this reason aHe is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of fthe eternal inheritance.

The blood of animals did not remove sin, it pointed us to the one who would.. It was our sins that separated us from God.

We will all be resurrected. This is the promise:

1Cor. 15:20-22 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who care asleep. For since aby a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

1Cor. 15:26 The last enemy that will be aabolished is death.

1Cor. 15:49 Just as we have aborne the image of the earthy, 1we bwill also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Cor. 15:50 ¶ Now I say this, brethren, that aflesh and blood cannot binherit the kingdom of God; nor does 1the perishable inherit 2cthe imperishable.
1Cor. 15:51 Behold, I tell you a amystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be bchanged,
1Cor. 15:52-54 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for athe trumpet will sound, and bthe dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. “O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?”

Those of us who know Yeshua, grieve when someone dies because death is separation, but we do not grieve the way the world grieves because we have hope. We are already seated in the heavenly realm with Yeshua, so you don't need an intermediary. God Himself became your High Priest, if you know Yeshua. He said, the moment He died on the cross "it is FINISHED".. What was finished? He defeated sin and death, and now we just await the ultimate fulfillment...

It is a done deal, but we must walk in it by faith.. Without faith it is impossible to please God. I don't know Carrie at all, but there are people here who evidently thought she was a wonderful lady. Who I do know is Yeshua, and if you know Him to just approach His throne with confidence and know that He will give you great mercy in your time of need.

In the days ahead we will all need to know Him this way.. It will be very important that we really have confidence in this direct relationship which will preserve us in the hard times ahead, so I am not trying to get on your case, but rather encourage you in Yeshua to go directly to your Father in Heaven who already knows what you have need of, but delights in our coming to Him.

We can KNOW with certainty.. This is what I want you to see:

1John 5:10-15 The one who believes in the Son of God ahas the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has bmade Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us aeternal life, and bthis life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who bbelieve in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have ceternal life. This is athe confidence which we have 1before Him, that, bif we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, awe know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.

These are not my words, but the Word of God. If you don't know Yeshua this way, you can. All you have to do is cry out to Him and tell Him to strengthen your faith so that you can have the assurance of your eternal salvation, the forgiveness of your sins and the hope of the resurrection. Open His Word and begin reading and He will reveal Himself to you in Spirit and in truth.

Anyway, I just wanted to offer you the true hope that we have in these difficult days. We all need to grab a hold of these eternal truths, so that when the days become difficult we can stand.

Paul explains what we need to be equipped..

Eph. 6:13-20 Therefore, take up athe full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having ashod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of cthe evil one. And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is cthe word of God. With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints, and apray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an aambassador bin chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, das I ought to speak.

So, again, I'm not trying to put anyone down here, but rather encourage you to grab hold of as much truth, as you can because I firmly believe we will all need this. The truth will keep us from sinking when the tribulation comes, and we are probably close.


Jaclyn said...

I know he seems like one of the good guys, thats what makes him so scary, but he sold out the American people for 30 pieces of silver. He comes across as so genuine which gives him tremendous influence. He can be bought and paid for which makes him one of the most dangerous guys, in my opinion.

A good guy would have said "no" I won't betray the American people, not even for 50 million dollars. Then, as far as I'm concerned, he would have earned the right to be a leader.

paul said...

Glen Beck has a business to tend to.
His business is controversy and debate.
Controversy, debate and heated discussion
are the things that drive Glen Beck's show
and put all that money in his pocket.
If he seems like a nice guy or that he's
concerned with Christians things it's
because he has a huge constituancy
(audience) of Christians all across this
country, whom he has fooled.
He does often reveal hypocracy
because it's great for business.
He's just another Freemason who
knows how to tap dance along on
the edge of the fence, playing both
I wouldn't believe him if I were you.
_Just my opinion of course.

paul said...

I don't believe Glen Beck and I don't believe
the History Channel either, which last
night did an epic (endless) segment on
Nostradamus, whom they call, over and
over again, the "ultimate prophet", and
the "most amazing prophet" and the
the "go-to guy" of prophets and a bunch
of other titles which all make him seem
like something much more than, say,
Isaiah or Ezekiel, which is ridiculous
and only serves to confuse and cloud
what a real Prophet is.
Nostradamous was a sorcerer who had
a tight friendship with some demons
from hell. Just like Edgar Cayce, and
the people who produced "The Secret"
and the people who now give us this
New Age spirituality, which isn't new
at all.
The one true God has revealed himself
as thoroughly and comprehensively
to mankind as he saw fit in the pages
of the Holy Bible. No other written
revelation is necessary.
People will do anything to avoid reading
God's Holy Word.
"_The testimony of Jesus Christ is the
spirit of Prophesy" (Rev.19:10)

Anonymous said...

Re: Glen Beck - staged and manipulated media. When Beck was still with CNN he commented that the 9/11 families who were calling for investigations should stop whining - Never once did he shed a tear of support. Now he is on FOX claiming he's just a regular guy looking for truth and can't contain his ever so prominent alligator tears...please stay tuned to FOX - $$$.

CNN also has their version of the regular guy - Jack MacCafferty. He's the tie free guy, angry about the assault on the middle class - over to you Wolf - $$$.


HK-91 said...

To VW,

i.e."Re: Glen Beck - staged and manipulated media. When Beck was still with CNN he commented that the 9/11 families who were calling for investigations should stop whining - Never once did he shed a tear of support. Now he is on FOX claiming he's just a regular guy looking for truth and can't contain his ever so prominent alligator tears...please stay tuned to FOX - $$$."

If you or anyone else is interested in the real truth behing 9-11try looking at this site:

It may take a while to absorb this information, however consider the possability that this evidence is compellingly accurate.

It will seem very strange at first, however, sometimes the truth is strsanger than fiction.

We all know how extensive and effective the delusion the New Age is, this material will give you a more accurate understanding of just how effective and extensive it really is.

When you are shocked by something new, information wise, you can choose two paths, you can shut down and ignore, or you can wake up and consider the new evidence. Please keep that in mind as you consider the information you'll read on this site.


Anonymous said...


Fascinating information by Dr. Wood on 9/11, Erin and DEW. Tesla's work seems to be the gift that keeps on giving. One can only surmise the content and application of Tesla's confiscated paperwork.


paul said...

VW and HK-91,
Regarding Tesla, did you ever see this ?

Anonymous said...

Read about the DHS State and Local Fusion Centers

and the American Civil Liberties Union's analysis What's Wrong With Fusion Centers

Constance Cumbey said...


Quite interesting, but frankly looks like fiction to me. Bushes had their faults, but I believe they were all the Bushes. This reminds me of the type of fiction Eustace Mullins routinely generates and passes on to gullible Christians to further his personal New Age / Neo-Nazi agenda.

But thanks for letting me know it was out there, Paul.


Len said...

April 20, 2009

Rudi invoked Zech. 12.

Before we discuss the meaning of Vs. 12:10, we need to first agree on the translation. IMHO the Christianized implicit one is simply wrong!

It is not, "... look on Him whom you pierced and you will mourn for Him," but rather:

"And they shall look to Me (Our Father in heaven)(v'hee-bee-too ai-lai) because of the one (ait asher) who was thrust through and they shall mourn over him as one mourns over an only [son]..."

Your mistranslation is the same as that in John 19:37.

If you look at Zech. 12, the entire chapter, you will see that it is about God's protection of Jerusalem, and how the Jews will successfully rebel against alien masters.

Please note the reference to the events at Meggidon in Zech. 12:11. Then please look at 2 Kings 23:29, and 2 Chron. 35:22-23, the similar thrusting thorough of King Josiah.

A more complete quote is:

“On that day the Lord will protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem. On that day even the weakest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like divine beings, like an angel of the Lord before them. And on that day I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. “They shall look towards Me because of him who was thrust through and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only son, and be embittered over him like the embitterment over a deceased firstborn. On that day the mourning will be intense in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon at the valley of Meggidon. (Zech. 12:9-11)"

You should ask yourself why exactly the opposite happened, in the Jesus era, with respect to the Roman conquest of Jerusalem. How can this prophecy be about Jesus if the Romans succeeded rather than being destroyed?

Having dismissed Jesus from this, what IS the prophecy about?

The commentary in the ArtScroll Tanakh says that the salvation will be so complete that people would be astonished if the enemy kills even one man. According to the Targum (Aramaic traslation of the Torah) and Talmud, Vs. 11 alludes to two events: the mourning over Ahab, son of Omri king of Israel, who was killed in battle by Hadadrimmon (1 Kings 22); and the mourning for Josiah, king of Judah, who was slain in the Valley of Meggidon. (2 Chron. 36:20-25)” Both these people were thrust through by arrows.


Joyce said...


The rabbi I met in Jerusalem, who spoke fluent Hebrew and quoted that to me and said Yeshua is coming back here, pointing to the Mount of Olives did not understand the translation, and my Sabra Israeli friend who doesn't believe in Yeshua but doesn't know how to explain that verse but agrees on the content with , and friends that are scholars of Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, Arabic, etc. These are all Jewish sources, not Christian ones, and not even Messianic ones, so I have to politely disagree with you.

Zechariah is an interesting book because there are parts dealing with past and parts with future prophecies, but "they will look upon Him who they pierced and weep as one weeps for an only begotten Son". When you look at the verse, it is bracketed by two verses that both say "in that day" which is a euphemism for in the end of time:

Zech. 12:9 “And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zech. 12:10 ¶ “I will apour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, 1the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have bpierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one cmourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
Zech. 12:11 “In that day there will be great amourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo.

One of the rules of Biblical interpretation is context, context, context and the context is "in that day"...

Always good to hear from you,

Len said...

Dear Joyce,

You make it sound like I invented my own translation. I did not.

You can check it out yourself because just about the most accurate trfanslation is available on line; the Judaica Press Tanakh. Here it is verbatum:

10. And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those who have been thrust through [with swords], and they shall mourn over it as one mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son.

The Jewish Jerusalem Bible, edited and printed in Israel. has essentially the same translation.

The ArtScroll Tanakh also has essentially the same translation. That makes three (strikes:-?).

I don't care who you said you spoke with. They have the same access to wideely used authoritative bibles that I do and if they don't use them it is their problem.


Len said...


Following is the complete verse-by-verse commentary (except for omission of Hebrew words) on Zech. 12 by the widely followed (even in Christian seminaries) 12th century exegete Rashi:

Chapter 12 1 The prophecy of the word of the Lord This is the completion of the word that he began to speak about the retribution of those who devour Israel - Esau and his ilk. 2 a cup of weakness a vessel of weakness, as in (Exod. 12:22), “in the blood that is in the cup.” weakness an expression of bewilderment, [it means] the clogging of the heart and the limbs, for, like man enwrapped in a garment, they have no strength, as in (Nahum 2:4), “And the cypress trees were enwrapped” ; and (Isa. 3:19) “And the bracelets and the veils.” In the language of the Mishnah (Shabbath 6:6) we find, “Arabian women may go out veiled.” It is involopiment in O.F. and also on Judah the nations that will be in siege against Jerusalem will impose upon Judah, for the house of David will be inside and the gentiles will besiege them. And also, the children of Judah will come, against their will, to besiege Jerusalem. So did Jonathan render it. 3 a stone of burden A stone of burden placed upon men by order of the ruler, to carry it and to load it on their shoulders. It is very heavy, to the extent that all who bear it become gashed. 4 I will smite every horse of those gathered there with bewilderment and blindness, and their riders with madness (Shem Ephraim). But upon the [members of the] house of Judah, who are among those gathered against their will, I will open My eyes to protect them from this plague. 5 And the princes of Judah shall say to themselves when they see that the others who were gathered are plagued with this plague, and they are saved. The inhabitants of Jerusalem were my strength, etc. The inhabitants of Jerusalem, who know that we came upon them against our will, strengthened my help with their prayer by the Lord, their God. 6 I will make the princes of Judah They will return and wage war with those who brought them there. as a fiery stove Like a great bonfire. The word ëéåø is an expression of ëéøä, a stove. So did Menahem (Machbereth, p. 109) classify it. in its place lit. under it. 7 And the Lord shall first save the tents of Judah Before the inhabitants of Jerusalem come out of the city, they shall have a salvation - to return to their tents and to their homes - and afterwards the salvation shall come to the inhabitants of the city. That is the salvation concerning which it is stated (14:3): “And the Lord shall go forth and wage war.” so that the boasting of, etc., shall not increase to boast over them and to say, “ You were saved only because of us.” 8 and the weakest among them Heb. äðëùì like angels Jonathan renders: like great ones, like angels. like the angel of the Lord before them They will prosper like the angel of the Lord before them. 9 I will seek to destroy I will seek their destruction, and I will be exact in judging their iniquity. And our Sages (Avodah Zarah 4a) explained this verse as concerning merit. I will search in the books of their deeds; if they have merit, I will spare them; otherwise, I will destroy them. 10 a spirit of grace and supplications That it should come into their mind to supplicate Me, and they will be in My good graces. a spirit Talant in Old French, a desire. they shall look to Me because of those who have been thrust through Jonathan renders: And they shall supplicate Me because of their wanderings. And they shall look to Me to complain about those of them whom the nations thrust through and slew during their exile. and they shall mourn over it Over that slaughter. as one mourns over an only son As a man mourns over his only son. And our Sages expounded this in tractate Sukkah (52a) as referring to the Messiah, son of Joseph, who was slain. 11 like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the Valley of Megiddon Hadadrimmon has no connection to the Valley of Megiddon. These are, rather, two cases of mourning. [The first is] like the mourning of Ahab the son of Omri, who was slain by Hadadrimmon the son of Tabrimmon in Ramoth Gilead, as it is stated (I Kings 22:36): “A cry passed through the camp.” That is the mourning [of Ahab. The second case is] like the mourning of Josiah the son of Amon, who was slain by Pharoah the lame in the Valley of Megiddon, as it is stated (II Chron. 35:25): “And Jeremiah lamented for Josiah, and all the singing men and singing women spoke in their laments, etc.” 12 the house of Nathan the prophet. Some say that it refers to Nathan the son of David, as it is said (II Sam. 5:14): “Shammua and Shobab, and Nathan and Solomon.” 13 the house of Levi The priests and the Levites. the family of the Shimeites Shammua the son of David. Scripture first makes a generality about the house of David, and then it specifies each one. 14 All the remaining families of the house of David. and their wives apart because of decency. Now why were the families of the priesthood and the kingdom [mentioned]? In order to restore their crowns to them, as it is stated in the beginning of the Book (4:14): "These are the two anointed ones who stand before the Lord of all the earth."

Len said...


Dear Joyce,

If you read the Rashi commentary on Zech 12 you may grab on to the part about the Messiah, son of Joseph. Some Christins use him as a Jesus type notwithstanding that the popular Messiah is to be descended from David.

If you have the patience for a very detailed analysis, from a Jewish viewpoint, of the two messiahs please go here:

Judaism does contain some aspects of a two-messiah tradition but nowhere is there any hint that any of these will be a divine being.

Peace and blessing,

Len said...


Anon (why don't you identify yourself?) said:

"I am still praying that everybody will kiss and make up, but if not, everybody should remember where the real vitriol on this discussion forum came -- to my observation, presently - sorry to say it -- DOROTHY! What does everybody else think?"

I am only an occasional visitor here but it does not take a rocket scientist to figure ot the cause of the dissension.

From my understanding of this blog, the main objective is to ferret out and expose the New Age movement and its dangers to world order and to the main-stream religions.

It is evident that Joyce used the forum as a wedge to missionize for Christianity. Dorothy, being Jewish, resented Joyce's prosylytizing and let her know that it is irrelevant to the New Age problem and is, in fact, a distraction.

I am also a Jew and saw that Joyce's arguments are not only irrelevant to the thread, but contain many typical missionary errors.

As a pot, I am not really the one to call the kettle black. But I felt it important to correct the many errors I saw for the record. The Jewish Bible is too important to be distorted without correction. In fact such distortions are borderline sacreligious with ignorance being the only possible excuse. I endeavor to remove that excuse by shedding some light on the subject.

I apologize to Ms. Cumby for the intrusion.

Peace and blessing to all.


Joyce said...


There are many educated, rabbinically trained Jews coming to know that Yeshua is the Messiah. Judaism may not believe that the Messiah is God, but don't forget Judaism is post-Babylon..

I firmly believe that a lot of Jewish tradition which was developed to build fences around Torah, obscures the truth and reality of who Yeshua was.

Yeshua's confrontations with the religious leaders was sometimes about this very subject.

Spend some more time reading the Gospels and you will see that Yeshua was not only the greatest rabbi that ever lived, but He is Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David.

Instead of reading 12 Century rabbis, read Rabbi Yeshua...You will be blessed...

b'shem Yeshua,

Joyce said...

....oh and I should add He is I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE, and you know who that is Len...

The religious leaders of the Second Temple period during the time of Yeshua were horribly corrupt, so let's look at their dialogue with Him before they took HIm away to have the Romans crucify Him:

Mark 14:56-59 For many were giving false testimony against Him, but their testimony was not consistent. Some stood up and began to give false testimony against Him, saying, “We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and in three days I will build another made without hands.’” Not even in this respect was their testimony consistent. The high priest stood up and came forward and questioned Jesus, saying, “Do You not answer? 1What is it that these men are testifying against You?” But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see aTHE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and bCOMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”

Yeshua says:

John 6:48 “I am the bread of life.

John 8:12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”

John 10:9 “I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

John 10:14 “I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

John 13:13 “You call Me aTeacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am.

John 14:6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and cthe life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

John 14:10 “Do you not believe that aI am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 14:20 “In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.

John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he abears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

John 18:37 Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “aYou say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, bto testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

John 19:21 So the chief priests of the Jews were saying to Pilate, “Do not write, ‘aThe King of the Jews’; but that He said, ‘I am King of the Jews.’

Yeshua was I will be what I will be.. He is:

He is this ONE:

Ex. 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

I will be what I will be, is what Yeshua is and you cannot put him in your box. You can say what Judaism says, but you can not say what Torah says and there is a difference. Judaism does not equal Torah, nor does it even equal Tanach. Judaism is what was brought out of Babylon in order to preserve the House of Judah when they were in exile, but as we know in the galut.. Go back to Torah and read it without all of your prejudices and you might see that Yeshua is the Living Torah, the Word that became flesh, the Lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world.

Num. 24:17 “I see him, but not now;
I behold him, but not near;
A star shall come forth from Jacob,
aA scepter shall rise from Israel,
And shall crush through the forehead of Moab,
And tear down all the sons of Sheth.

Who has ascended and descended?

Prov. 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven and descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has wrapped the waters in His garment?
Who has destablished all the ends of the earth?
What is His ename or His son’s name?
Surely you know!

The price paid for Yeshua:

Zech. 11:13 Then the LORD said to me, “Throw it to the potter, that magnificent price at which I was valued by them.” So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

I know Jews have suffered in the name of Christianity. I am well aware of our history, but remember what God said we would suffer. He said He would scatter us for our transgressions of Torah, and that one day He would gather us ( not just the Jews, but ALL Israel ) from the four corners of the earth.

Psa. 106:27 And that He would cast their seed among the nations And scatter them in the lands.

Jer. 31:27 ¶ “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and with the seed of beast.

Matt. 13:38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are athe sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

Yeshua had such wisdom...incredible the parables He told..

1John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Now, how could such a wise, wise rabbi, be a liar? You are implying that someone with wisdom, which is God's wisdom could be telling a lie. You quote to me from 12th Century rabbis who might be wise, but they can even put a scratch in Yeshua's wisdom.
If you really stop and think and put aside all rhetoric of Judaism and just think Torah, think of God's wisdom and how unsearchable are His ways, Yeshua's atonement for your sin would make lots more sense.

Read His Word, not mine.. put aside your dogma and just read His Words with an open mind and you'll see quickly who He is.

He is the King of Glory, and one day, we will all bow down and worship Him.. My counsel to you Len, is to seek Him now..

b'shem Yeshua,

Joyce said...

I'm always happy for you when you come back to write Len, because it reminds me ( not that I've forgotten) to pray for you in the name of Yeshua. May He give you true shalom, as a Jew who knows his risen Messiah.


Len said...


Joyce wrote:

>>There are many educated, rabbinically trained Jews coming to know that Yeshua is the Messiah.

Whatever happened to Zech. 12:10? Is your dropping the hot potato of your incorrect translation a concession?

Many more highly educated Christians, including clergy, are converting to Judaism than the other way around; though numbers do not tell the whole story:

Here is a list of JUST FORMER CHRISTIAN CLERGY/theologians:

• Nicolas Antoine, was a French-Christian Protestant theologian
Shlomo Ben Avraham "Ole" Brunell, former Lutheran minister from Finland and Australia. Along with him, his wife Ruth (formerly Runa), two adult daughters, two teenage daughters, and a former son-in-law also converted.[68]
• William G. Dever, a former evangelical minister, he converted to Judaism and became a world-renowned Biblical scholar
• Michael Flanagan, a former Baptist minister, his mother-in-law, wife and their two adult sons, grandchildren, daughter-in-law also converted to Orthodox Judaism.
• Hector Flores, a former evangelical minister, converted with 100 members of his Houston church [69]
Capers Funnye, first African-American member of the Chicago Board of Rabbis, serves on the boards of the Jewish Council on Urban Affairs and the American Jewish Congress of the Midwest, and is active in the Institute for Jewish and Community Research, he is also the cousin of Michelle Obama Julie Galambush, a former American Baptist Minister, she converted to Judaism Natan Gamedze, former Protestant Christian, linguist and a Swazi royal, now a black Haredi rabbi Lord George Gordon, Best known for heading an anti-Catholic Protestant association.[70] Ahuva Gray served as a Christian minister in the African American community both in Chicago and Los Angeles for fourteen years. She left that world in 1996 to fulfill her spiritual yearnings and become an Orthodox Jew. Nobutaka Hattori, a former Protestant Minister of Japan he converted to Orthodox Judaism Carolivia Herron, author John Hove, a former Lutheran pastor, he converted to Orthodox Judaism in 1988. Yitzchak Jordan, rapper converted to Orthodox Judaism Benjamin Klugger, former Pentecostal missionary, now Orthodox Jew and head of counter-missionary organization [71] Julius Lester, Author and musician who was the son of a minister.[72] Tonica Marlow, a former female evangelical minister and daughter of a Pentecostal preacher. She converted to Orthodox Judaism Mariano Otero, a former South Florida-based former Pentacostal minister is now a counter-missionary Yaakov Ephraim Parisi, former Pentecostal minister Skipp Porteous, former Pentecostal minister Thomas Roper, an ex-Baptist minister, he converted to Orthodox Judaism Carlos Samuel Salas, a former Methodist minister, he converted to Orthodox Judaism Gavriel Sanders former evangelical minister and missionary in Israel, he converted to Orthodox Judaism Arnold Schoenberg [73] Sheldon Christopher Smith, a former Pentacostal Pastor converted to Judaism in 1987[74] Johann Peter Spaeth, German theologian[75] "Johann Peter Spaeth (about 1642-1701), author of an attack on Spinoza's Tractatus Theologico-politicus, finally became a Jewish convert, called himself "Moses Germanus," and was even circumcised a few years before his death in 1697" Obadiah the Proselyte (né Johannes), priest and composer [76]. Paul Tan, a former evangelical minister in Singapore, is moving towards Judaism with members of his congregation [77] Asher Wade an ex-Methodist pastor; he converted in 1978 to Orthodox Judaism. David N. Weiss, Former Presbyterian minister David Weiss (born Jewish) returned to Judaism and is now a successful writer living in Los Angeles.[78]

>>Judaism may not believe that the Messiah is God, but don't forget Judaism is post-Babylon..
I firmly believe that a lot of Jewish tradition which was developed to build fences around Torah, obscures the truth and reality of who Yeshua was.

Nonsene! The Bible itself gives the lie to your fantasies.

Len said...


Joyce said: "Instead of reading 12 Century rabbis, read Rabbi Yeshua..."

LOL! In other words, instead of reading a twelfth century rabbi I should read a first century non-rabbi.

Len said...

Dear Joyce,

You are giving Jesus credit that belongs to God the Father alone.

[Hosea 13:4]
I am the Lord your God, Who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but Me, no Savior except Me!

[Deuteronomy 4:35]
You are the ones who have been shown, so that you will know that God is the Supreme Being, and there is none other besides Him!

[Deuteronomy 4:39]
Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the Lord, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other!

[Deuteronomy 32:39]
See, now, that I, I am He -- and no god is with Me . . . .

[I Samuel 2:2]
There is none holy as the Lord. There is none beside Thee; neither is there any Rock like our God.

[I Kings 8:27]
For will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain Thee; how much less this house that I have built?

[I Kings 8:60]
So that all the nations of the earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other!

[II Kings 19:19]
Now, O Lord our God, deliver us from his hand, so that all kingdoms on earth may know that You alone, O Lord, our God. [ also Psalm 113:5]

[Isaiah 40:18]
To whom then will you liken God? To what likeness will you compare Him?

[Isaiah 40:25]
“To whom then will you liken Me, that I should be his equal?” says the Holy One.

[Isaiah 42:8]
I am the Lord, that is My name, and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise to graven images!

[Isaiah 43:10-11]
“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”

[Isaiah 44:6-8]
This is what the Lord says, Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty, “I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no God! Who then is like Me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare it and lay it out before Me . . . . Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”

[Isaiah 44:24]
Thus said the Lord, your Redeemer, the One who formed you from the womb, “I am the Lord Who makes everything, Who stretched forth the heavens alone, Who spread out the earth by Myself.”

[Isaiah 45:5-6]
I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God . . . . I will strengthen you . . . in order that they know from the shining of the sun and from the west that there is no one besides Me; I am the Lord and there is no other!

[Isaiah 45:21-22]
. . . Who announced this from before, who declared it from the distant past? Is it not I, the Lord, and there is no God apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other!

[Isaiah 46:5]
To whom shall you liken Me and make Me equal and compare Me that we may be alike?

[Isaiah 46:9]
Remember the first things of old, that I am God and there is no other; I am God and there is none like Me.

[Isaiah 48:11]
. . . and My honor I will not give to another.

[Joel 2:27]
You shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and I am the Lord your God, there is no other; and My people shall never be ashamed.

[Malachi 2:10]
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why should we betray, each one his brother, to profane the covenant of our forefathers?

[Psalm 73:25]
Whom have I in heaven but You? The earth has nothing I desire besides You.

[Psalm 81:8-9]
Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you; O Israel, if you would listen to Me! Let there be no strange god among you; nor shall you worship any foreign god.

[Nehemiah 9:6]
You alone are the Lord; You made the heavens, the heavens of the heavens and all their host, the earth and all that is upon it, the seas and all that is in them, and You give life to all, and the heavenly host bow down before You.

[I Chronicles 17:20]
O Lord, there is none like You, neither is there any God beside You, according to all that we have heard with our ears!

Joyce said...

Why don't you study Yeshua's words instead of answering me.. I think you'll find that His Wisdom surpasses Rashi's...since He is the Word that became flesh.

We know that the hebraic model is that God separated waters above from below. He gave Moses instructions to make the mishkan according to the pattern that he was given.

We know that God planted a garden from before the beginning in delight ( that is to say, in Him)..

We also know that Yeshua is the fulness of deity in bodily form.

You can see a theme throughout the Scriptures, but above all God Himself made the way to restore us back to delight and that is in Himself.

I don't see any separation between God and Yeshua.. If there is no separation, Yeshua is echad with His Father...

Granted it doesn't agree with the concept of Mashiach or God put forth by rabbinic Judaism for the last 1900 or so years, but Rabbi Paul and a number of other Pharisees were convinced, so give it some thought and don't just assume that you have it right.

Read Yeshua's writings, His wisdom and don't quote me all the canned passages.. Rav Sha'ul was no slouch, and he went from persecuting believers to following Yeshua.. Something must have convinced Him.. Maybe he was "binded by the light?"

If I don't speak to you again in the next day or so, Shabbat shalom,

p.s. hope you had a really nice Pesach...

Len said...


Dear Joyce,

I know all about Jesus' words and, as an overzealous, tiresome missionary, you don't influence me at all by using a psedo-Hebrew name for this god of gentiles.

The problem is not Jesus' words but Paul's, John's and Joyce's.

Jesus said to observe the Torah meticulously, like a good Jew, but the others deified him and dissed the Torah as an unattainable modle to be replaced by idolatry.

You should read “The Mythmaker -- Paul and the Invention of Christianity,” by Hyam Maccoby (Harper and Row, 1986). Here is a brief synopsis:

1. Paul was never a Pharisee rabbi but an adventurer of undistinguished background. He deliberately misrepresented his background to increase the effectiveness of his missionary activities.

2. Jesus and his immediate followers were Pharisees. Jesus had no intention of founding a new religion. He regarded himself as a messiah in the normal sense of the term; a human leader who would restore the Jewish monarchy, drive out the Romans, set up an independent Jewish state, and inaugurate an era of peace and justice (known as the Kingdom of God). When this did not occur, his mission was a failure. He had absolutely no intention of being crucified to save the world. He never regarded himself as a divine being and would have considered this idea as idolatry, which is exactly what it is for Jews; a violation of the First and Second Commandments.

3. James and Peter, Nazarenes, founded the Jerusalem Church after the crucifixion. Their beliefs were Pharisaic, except for their belief in resurrection of Jesus, and that he was the Messiah; NOT that he was a divine person. The Nazarenes were very observant of Jewish law, and did not believe that Jesus abrogated the Torah. They practiced circumcision and kept kosher. Their religion was Judaism. They broke with Paul for abrogating the Torah and disowned him.

4. Paul, not Jesus, founded Christianity. (Some think that not even he did this but, rather, pagans who later distorted his Noahite message -- the message that pagans did not have to become Jews to earn God’s salvation). Paul (or his editors) derived Christianity from Hellenistic and pagan myths of the atoning death of a divine being, and that the Torah was created just to show that it was impossible to follow it; that atonement involved the mystical sharing the death of the divine being’s sacrifice, and was the only path to salvation. Paul got this primarily from Gnosticism and concepts from the mystery pagan religions, particularly from that of Attis. He combined these with features from Judaism, particularly incorporation of the Jewish Scriptures, reinterpreted to provide a background of sacred history for the new myth. Jesus had no idea of all this and would have been amazed and shocked. Paul’s knowledge of Judaism was recent and shallow.

5. The Ebionites, whose ideas were suppressed by the church, showed that the NT lies about Paul’s background. Epiphanius, in particular, shows that Paul had no Pharisee background or training but, rather, was the son of gentiles and converted to Judaism. Disappointed in his hope of advancement as a henchman for the High Priest, he sought fame by founding a new religion.

6. The Ebionites were stigmatized by the church as heretics who considered Jesus as human, not divine, and disagreed that the Torah was abrogated. They observed Halakha and considered themselves Jews. THEY were the authentic followers of Jesus; neither heretics or re-Judaizers, but the heirs of the Nazarenes. The latter were led by James and Peter who knew Jesus personally and were, therefore, in a far better position to know his aims than Paul who met Jesus only in dreams and visions.

Instead of considering Christianity as a continuation, or perfection, of Judaism you should recognize it for what it really is; a brilliant concoction of Hellenism, superficially connecting itself with the Jewish scriptures and tradition, by which it seeks to give itself an air of authority. Paul tried to have his cake and eat it too. The gospels attacked the Pharisees as hypocrites and would-be murderers: yet they convey an impression of the Pharisees as figures of immense authority and dignity. This ambivalence reflects the attitude of Christianity to Judaism itself; on the one hand, as allegedly outdated ritualism but, on the other, a panorama of awesome history, a source of authority and blessing, so that at all costs the church must portray itself as the New Israel, the true Judaism. Read the book!


Len said...


From Wikipedia:

The Ebionites were a Jewish sect that insisted on the necessity of following Jewish religious law and rites,[1] which they interpreted in light of Jesus' expounding of the Law.[2] They regarded Jesus as the Messiah but not as divine. The Ebionites revered his brother James as the head of the Jerusalem Church and rejected Paul of Tarsus because he was an apostate towards the Law[citation needed]. Their name suggests that they placed a special value on religious poverty.

Much of what is known about the Ebionites derives from the Church Fathers, who wrote polemics against the Ebionites, whom they deemed heretical Judaizers.[3][4] Some scholars agree with the substance of the traditional portrayal as an offshoot of mainstream Christianity. Many scholars distinguish the Ebionites from other Jewish Christian groups, e.g. the Nazarenes,[5] while others contest this.

Len said...


Dear Joyce,

One thing you would never be accused of being, notwithstanhding your faux-fluency with Hebrew words, is a Judaizer.


Len said...


Dear Joyce,

There was and interesting talk in our synagogue today that brought our discussion to mind.

It was a discussion of the Talmud/Mishna Ethics of the Fathers Ch. 2:14. The particular part of this paragraph I want to reference:

“Which is the worst quality a person should shun? --- Rabbi Simeon said: One who borrows and does not repay. It is the same whether one borrows from man or from God, as it is said –‘The wicked borrows and does not repay, but the righteous deals graciously and gives.’ --- ”

Everything we have, our lives and all beneficence, is borrowed from God. Jews believe that we owe God a debt we can never fully repay but try to pay in installments by following His will. It occurred to me that Christians believe that, because the debt can never be fully repaid, Jesus repaid the debt for them and they therefore do not have to worry about it.

If you have a mortgage or loan you have trouble repaying, some creditors could lower the boom, force you into bankruptcy, or take other harmful measures. Other creditors will make arrangements by modifying the terms; extending the time, lowering the interest rate, deferring payment, without canceling the debt, to make it easier for the debtor to repay. This last model is the Jewish model.

Ps. 78:37 Their heart was not sincere with Him; they were not faithful in His covenant. 38 But [the Father in heaven] is merciful, He forgives iniquity and does not destroy; Frequently He turns away His wrath and does not arouse all His anger. 39 He remembers that they are flesh, a spirit that goes away and does not return.

It seems that the Christian model, following Paul, has an incorrectly dire view of the Father as a wrathful God and latched onto Jesus to ameliorate this view. IMHO the Jewish view is the correct one:

Exod 34: 6 And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed: Lord, Lord, God, Who is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving kindness and truth, 7 preserving loving kindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and rebellion and sin.

Anonymous said...