While I still believe that Barack Obama is a natural born US citizen, Philip Berg's campaign not withstanding, I have received some potentially disturbing information from a credible source about Barack Obama's possible programming and direction. I will present Tom Fife, a computer networking specialist and physicist on my internet radio program next Tuesday night who will share with us a disturbing conversation he had with a Russian lady in Moscow in 1991. The woman boasted of a man named "Barak" who was half African, half American who was being groomed for eventually taking the USA President. John W. Spring has talked to me about this many times and I was extremely reluctant to add any credence to what I believed was a shaky story. However, I have now had the opportunity to talk with Mr. Fife. He revealed names and details that I was able to locate and verify on the internet regarding the Professor and his wife, a physician, who hosted Mr. Fife at a Moscow dinner party in 1991.
I don't know if I fully believe yet, but I do believe you have the right to know and assist you in sorting out these facts for yourself.
Tomorrow night, I will finish my current series on basics of the New Age Movement and its doctrines. Tune in to http://www.themicroeffect.com/, join us in the chatroom there as well as listen live, and stay tuned!
Constance
380 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 380 of 380http://tinyurl.com/d6glnl
Upside-down cross?
Joyce,
The Council of Jamnia/Yavne/Jabne, or the "academy"/"school," or whatever it was called is not quite as hyopothetical as you seem to be making it out to be.
Just because it doesn't happen to fit in with someone's agenda doesn't mean it didn't happen.
THAT was when the definitive split from Christians occurred, and NOT by way of a fiat from Constantine a few hundred years later.
The following is about Gamaliel of Jabneh who succeeded Johanan ben Zakkai. Interesting about the calendar.
Gamaliel of Jabneh (gəmā`lēəl, jăb`nē), fl. A.D. 100, Jewish scholar; grandson of the Gamaliel who, according to tradition, taught St. Paul the law. A Palestinian Tanna, he succeeded Johanan ben Zakkai Johanan ben Zakkai (jōhăn`ən bĕn zăk`āī)
..... Click the link for more information. as head of the academy at Jamnia Jamnia (jăm`nēə), biblical Jabneel
..... Click the link for more information. . He centralized rabbinic authority and was recognized by the Romans as a leader of his people. He played a significant role in the formulation of two important innovations in Jewish ritual: the final version of the Amidah (the 18 blessings) and the Passover seder, which substituted for the paschal sacrifice of the now destroyed Temple. He also helped to standardize the Jewish calendar.
http://tinyurl.com/dnfyuz
From the Jewish Encyclopedia....
ACADEMIES IN PALESTINE
http://tinyurl.com/crhk7h
Anonymous 9:27
The ignoramus who hosts that website has apparently failed to do his/her homework!
CROSS OF PETER
The Cross of St. Peter (officially known as the Petrine Cross or colloquially Peter's Cross) is an inverted Latin cross traditionally used as a Christian symbol, but in recent times also as an anti-Christian symbol.
The origin of this symbol comes from the Catholic tradition that St. Peter was crucified upside down, as told by Origen of Alexandria. It is believed that Peter requested this form of crucifixion as he felt he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner that Christ died (upright). As such, some Catholics use this cross as a symbol of humility and unworthiness in comparison to Christ.
According to Roman Catholicism the Pope is St. Peter's successor as Bishop of Rome. Therefore the Papacy is often represented by symbols that are also used to represent Peter- one example being the Keys to Heaven, another the Petrine Cross. During Pope John Paul II's visit to Israel, he sat on a chair with the Cross of Peter cut into the back.....read entire article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_St._Peter
Susanna,
You quoted to me from Wikipedia, and I quoted to you from a group of scholars, which are not the only scholars that hold that view, but certainly a respected group.
Joyce
Whoever posted the Cutting Edge article I will refer you to a book by Dave Hunt "the Woman who Rides the Beast".
It opens up with the statement about Evangelicals signing ECT Evangelicals and Catholics together.. It's a very insightful book with a lot of history about Roman Catholicism and the alarming trend that Evangelicals have forgotten the Reformation. People like Pat Robertson, Chuck Colson and others who have been mentioned in a less than flattering light on this blog were the signers, among others.
I think Roger Oakland understands the problem with this too:
http://www.understandthetimes.org/commentary/c30.shtml
http://tinyurl.com/bf7kql
This is a video by a former priest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuiJrhMxxJg
You have to move the cursor forward or it won't start by itself.
Here's Dave Hunt's website:
http://tinyurl.com/awy2z5
Here's a good page with lots of resources:
http://tinyurl.com/dh5zzt
These are some resources for those of you who are alarmed about this new ecumenism and the resurgence of things like mysticism, icons, labyrinths, in places in the Emergent Church etc.
Joyce
Dave's comments on Pope Pius XII:
http://www.thebereancall.org/node/7252
Joyce
Let me not forget the Inquisition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx8PdvOELvY
Joyce
Here's another site for those wanting to reach Catholics with the gospel:
http://www.reachingcatholics.org/sola.html
As many of you know, I have some issues with evangelical doctrine which did not go far enough in the reformation, but it was a good start..
http://www.reachingcatholics.org/archive.html
For those of you who weren't raised in Catholicism it will help you to understand a bit about their beliefs..
Joyce
Another former Catholic who gives information:
http://pro-gospel.org/x2/
Some more information about what Catholics believe:
http://tinyurl.com/cv8mtu
Joyce
Susanna,
None of those things are for you.. Don't bother looking at them, but for those who want to reach out to Catholics with the gospel, they will find them interesting...
Joyce
Hey, Joyce:
I hope you're being paid well for for being a disinformation agent.
Writing those 4 foot long posts filled with Catholic-bashing propaganda day in and day out has got to be exhausting!!!
Joyce:
Do we have you to "thank" for this earlier post (below) on this same thread?
I guess Constance doesn't mind that her blog is no longer primarily being used for exposing the New Age Movement - but is mostly a vehicle for promoting Joyce's Messianic beliefs and an attempt to convert everyone over to her way of thinking.
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Earlier post on this thread:
Becki said...
"Are you aware that this thread linked to an extremely anti-semitic website?"
9:01 AM
Joyce,
The stuff you posted is certainly NOT for me....nor is it for anyone else who wants to learn what Roman Catholicism is really all about. The article makes a lot of statements - mostly false.
Moreover, the article misrepresents what Catholic Sacred Tradition really is.
The statement "Christians have never been without Scriptures as their rule of faith" is not true.
Yes, there was the Old Testament, but once the Old Testament was fulfilled in Christ, it was the Gospel that was PREACHED before it was written down or beng read. ("Faith cometh by hearing....")
The Church did not come from the Bible. The Bible has been handed down to us by the Church.
No matter how you cut it, it is a historically irrefutable fact that "Sola Scriptura" REFUTES "Sola Scriptura!"
Leave Joyce alone. Have pity on her. She is a very lonely person who has stuffed herself with as much information as will fit into her brain. She has nowhere to share it but these threads. Her real world friends have probably gotten tired of her recitations. She's like a self-trained chef who can't find a job, even in a greasy spoon, so she sits on park benches telling strangers what she knows. Perhaps if she had become an academic she would have found an outlet.
Joyce, we'll pray that you find peace of mind one day. We know that you are trying to help the world.
Joyce,
Re:You quoted to me from Wikipedia, and I quoted to you from a group of scholars....
And what "scholars" might those be, Joyce?
The reason I quoted from Wikipedia was in response to your complaint that I only used Catholic sources.
But apparently it is OK for you to use biased sources, right?
Wikipedia may not always be the best source, but sometimes on certain subjects it is actually quite good. Moreover, Wikipedia is not the only source I cited - especially with regard to the Inquisition.
With regard to the Jamnia issue, I also quoted the Jewish Encyclopedia.
I also posted a link to the Vatican page where the actual anti-Nazi Encyclical "Mit brennender Sorge" is posted. It was published by Pope Pius XI, but was drafted by Pope Pius XII before he became pope.
In any case, I will be using more Catholic sources, - especially since you feel it is OK not to
practice what you preach.
Oh, and by the way, Dave Hunt is another rabidly anti-Catholic lunatic fringe bigot in a class with Alexander Hislop and Jack Chick - whose credibility went belly up years ago!
In fact, Jack chick gave Dave Hunt a page of his own on his website. If you are quoting Dave Hunt, your credibility is in trouble.
http://www.chick.com/information/authors/hunt.asp
Here is a link to Catholic James Akin's critique of Hunt's book A Woman Rides the Beast: The Catholic Church in the Last Days.
HUNT-ING THE WHORE OF BABYLON: PART 1
By James Akin
ANTI-CATHOLIC writer Dave Hunt is at it again. Large portions of his previous books have been devoted to attacking the Catholic Church. Now he has written an entire book doing so.
In his advance publicity for A Woman Rides the Beast: The Catholic Church in the Last Days, Hunt proclaims that this book "is not one man's wild-eyed speculation. . . . This important book will eclipse The Seduction of Christianity [Hunt's previously most popular book] in its impact on the church."
Yet in the same issue of his newsletter that carried this publicity, T. A. McMahon, the executive director of Hunt's organization, conceded that there have been problems getting Evangelical book distributors to carry it. He states, "Dave's new book (to be published in August) is already meeting resistance from Christian bookstore buyers."
Hunt's thesis is that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon mentioned in Revelation 17-18. Readers of his newsletter, The Berean Call, were given a preview of why he says this. The July 1994 issue carried an article titled "A City on Seven Hills," a condensation of one of the book's key chapters. Hunt advanced nine arguments to show that the Catholic Church is the great whore. ....read more....
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9409fea4.asp
Here are a few more links in defense of Pope Pius XII - none by Wikipedia, but many by Jewish historians and authors!!!
JEWISH HISTORIAN DEFENDS CHRISTIANS IN HOLOCAUST
http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=3121
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JEWISH HISTORIAN PRAISES PIUS XII'S WARTIME CONDUCT
http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=8546
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A RIGHTEOUS GENTILE: POPE PIUS XII AND THE JEWS
By Rabbi David Dalin, Ph.D.
http://tinyurl.com/bcsnh9
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In the following, Rabbi David G. Dalin rightly explains that the anti-Pius XII did not originate with the Jews, but rather with apostate Catholics
EXPLODING THE HITLER'S POPE MYTH
...Was Pope Pius XII secretly in league with Adolf Hitler?
Rabbi David G. Dalin not only answers no, but explains why that is so, in The Myth of Hitler's Pope.
And reports that as Pope Pius XII worked to save Jews from the Nazis, the grand mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, became Hitler's staunch ally and a promoter of the Holocaust.
Thomas Woods, in his review of Rabbi Dalin's masterpiece, succinctly set forth pertinent facts not likely to be highlighted in the secular media:
"As Cardinal Pacelli he had played a central role in the drafting of Mit Brennender Sorge, Pius XI's 1937 encyclical condemning Nazism. His inaugural encyclical, Summi Pontificatus (1939), made clear the incompatibility of National Socialism with the Catholic faith. The New York Times headline read, 'Pope Condemns Dictators, Treaty Violators, Racism.' Allied aircraft even dropped some 88,000 copies of the Pope's document over Germany in order to undermine the Nazi government. The abortive Nazi plan to kidnap Pius XII is also rather difficult to square with the 'Hitler's Pope' myth."
And described the genesis of the attacks on Pope Pius XII as follows:
"Now if what Rabbi Dalin says in this book is true and Pope Pius XII was in fact a great friend of the Jews, how do we account for the ceaseless attacks on the wartime pontiff? Let Rabbi Dalin answer that one:
'Very few of the many recent books about Pius XII and the Holocaust are actually about Pius XII and the Holocaust. The liberal bestselling attacks on the pope and the Catholic Church are really an intra-Catholic argument about the direction of the Church today. The Holocaust is simply the biggest club available for liberal Catholics to use against traditional Catholics in their attempt to bash the papacy and thereby to smash traditional Catholic teaching. . . .
"Dalin concludes: 'The anti-papal polemics of ex-seminarians like Garry Wills and John Cornwell (author of Hitler's Pope), of ex-priests like James Carroll, and or other lapsed or angry liberal Catholics exploit the tragedy of the Jewish people during the Holocaust to foster their own political agenda of forcing changes on the Catholic Church today."
The secular extremists exploit :intra-Cathlic argument" and gleefully misuse even the Holocaust for their own anti-religious purposes.
Michael Medved, nationally syndicated radio talk-show host and bestselling author, was unstinting in his praise of Rabbi Dalin and his book:
"Rabbi Dalin explodes the myth of Hitler's pope and condemns the myth-makers for not only rewriting history, but also for denying the testimony of Holocaust survivors, hijacking the Holocaust for unseemly political ends, and ignoring the real threat to the Jewish people.....
....MARY ANN GLENDON, Learned Hand Professor of Law, Harvard University
"Rabbi Dalin is a credible source both because of his Jewish identity and because of his academic credentials which include a doctorate from Brandeis University. He refutes in page after page of documented facts the great and repeated lie that Pope Pius XII was sympathetic to the Nazis. The truth that emerges again and again from each documented fact is that Pius XII spoke out against Nazi racism both before and after he became pope, that Pius XII instructed papal diplomats to aid persecuted Jews in the occupied nations of Europe, that he contributed money to aid desperate Jews, that he opened Catholic facilities in the Vatican and in other parts of Rome and Italy to shelter thousands of Jews from the Nazis, and that he gave direct face-to-face orders to protect Jews from the Nazis. This book is so well documented that Pius's detractors have to either put up or shut up. In fact, the detractors should apologize and formally retract their slanders. Of the many outrageous slanders against Pius XII, one in particular stands out to show the level of distortion used by the haters of this Pope. Rabbi Dalin recounts how Pius hater John Cornwell even uses a misleading cover for his book Hitler's Pope that makes it seem to the uninformed reader that Pius, who was then the papal nuncio (ambassador) to Germany, is just exiting from a meeting with the Nazis when in fact the picture is from 1927, well before Hitler took power, and in fact shows the future Pius XII, in the course of his formal diplomatic duties, emerging from a diplomatic reception for the elected President of Germany in 1927 during the democratic and pre-Nazi Weimar Republic (pp. 62-63). The book reads quickly, gets to the point, and has copious footnotes and a convenient index. Rabbi Dalin has performed a righteous deed. For a more detailed review, see my website. Oswald Sobrino," CatholicAnalysis.blogspot.com
....read entire article....
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/gaynor/050730
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THE BLACK LEGEND OF PIUS XII WAS INVENTED BY A CATHOLIC: MOUNIER
And with him, another important Catholic: Mauriac. It wasn’t just communist propaganda that created the image of pope Pacelli as a Nazi-lover. Two pieces in two influential magazines have thrown new light on the origins of this image
ROMA, 20 June 2005 – In the latest issue of “La Civiltà Cattolica”, the Jesuit historian Giovanni Sale reconstructs the birth about the “black legend” of Pius XII as being pro-Hitler.
“La Civiltà Cattolica” is the magazine of Rome’s Jesuits whose articles are read and authorized by the Vatican’s secretariat of state before publication.
According to Fr Sale’s reconstruction, it was the international communist press, led by Moscow, that generated the black legend after the end of the second world war.
In the same period, in the latest issue of "Archivum Historiae Pontificiae", the annual magazine published by the faculty of ecclesiastic history at the Pontifical Gregorian University, also run by Jesuits, an article appeared by the historian Giovanni Maria Vian presenting a different reconstruction of the original of the black legend of Pius XII.
According to Vian, the accusations against Pius XII’s “silence” were brought about not only by soviet propaganda, but also French and Polish Catholics, especially two important intellectuals, Emmanuel Mounier and François Mauriac....read more....
http://tinyurl.com/ccrs5g
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ALL THE SECRETS OF THE VATICAN SECRET ARCHIVES
http://tinyurl.com/c22uly
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MORE EVIDENCE PIUS XII WAS NOT HITLEr'S POPE, GERMAN FILES POINT TO RUSSIAN PLOT
http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=77434
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THE GOOD SAMARITAN: JEWISH PRAISE FOR POPE PIUS XII
http://www.ewtn.com/library/issues/pius12gs.htm
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HISTORY AS BIGOTRY
Daniel Goldhagen slanders the Catholic Church
by Rabbi David G. Dalin, Ph.D.
Goldhagen's centerpiece is the outrageous allegation that Pius XII "did not lift a finger to forfend the deportations of the Jews of Rome" or of other parts of Italy "by instructing his priests and nuns to give the hunted Jewish men, women and children sanctuary." Much of this is lifted straight from anti-Pius books like Susan Zuccotti's Under His Very Windows--and thus Goldhagen repeats the errors of those books and adds extras, all his own, in his determined attempt to extend their thesis into over-the-top railings against the sheer existence of Catholicism.
GOLDHAGEN IS APPARENTLY UNAWARE (or, more probably, doesn't care) that many distinguished scholars have declared Zuccotti's book "not history but guesswork," as the historian Owen Chadwick put it. Zuccotti's principal charge, mindlessly repeated by Goldhagen, is that there is no credible evidence that Pius XII ever explicitly ordered his subordinates to assist Jews in Italy. In fact, there is a whole body of evidence that proves Pius did. In 1964 Cardinal Paolo Dezza, the wartime rector of the Pontifical Gregorian University, published a signed article stating unequivocally that during the German occupation of Rome, Pius XII explicitly told him to help "persecuted Jews" and do so "most willingly." In his 2001 book Gli ebrei salvati da Pio XII, Antonio Gaspari compiles additional testimonies. And more recently, Gaspari came across new documents, establishing that as early as 1940 Pius XII explicitly ordered his secretary of state, Luigi Maglione, and Maglione's assistant, Giovanni Battista Montini (the future Paul VI), to send money to Jews protected by the bishop of Campagna.
The Nazi deportations of Italy's Jews began in October 1943. Pope Pius ordered churches and convents throughout Italy to shelter Jews, and in Rome itself 155 convents and monasteries sheltered five thousand Jews throughout the German occupation. Pius himself granted sanctuary within the walls of the Vatican, and his summer residence at Castel Gandolfo, to countless homeless Jews. Goldhagen's book conspicuously lacks any discussion of Castel Gandolfo, which enjoys a unique place in the annals of Jewish rescue (and Catholic rescuers) during the Holocaust: In no other site in all of Nazi-occupied Europe were as many Jews saved and sheltered for as long a period.
The recently released memoirs of Adolf Eichmann also contain new evidence disproving Goldhagen's claim. The memoirs confirm that Vatican protests played a crucial part in obstructing Nazi intentions for Roman Jews. Eichmann wrote that the Vatican "vigorously protested the arrest of Jews, requesting the interruption of such action." At Eichmann's trial in Jerusalem, Israeli attorney general Gideon Hausner said, "the pope himself intervened personally in support of the Jews of Rome." Documents introduced at the trial provide further evidence of Vatican efforts to halt the arrest and deportation of Roman Jews.
No accusation is too preposterous for Goldhagen to accept. Commenting on the Vatican's alleged link to Nazi war criminals, he claims that Alois Hudal, an Austrian prelate and Nazi sympathizer, was "an important Catholic bishop at the Vatican," as well as a "close friend" and "confidant" of Pius XII. Indeed, he adds, both Pius XII and the future Paul VI actively supported Hudal in his criminal assistance to fleeing Nazi war criminals.
As it happens, Alois Hudal was never a bishop "at the Vatican," much less an "important" one, but rather an obscure rector of the Collegio dell' Anima in Rome, where he was placed to confine him to a post of little significance. Hudal also was never a "close friend" of Pius XII or Montini. In fact, Hudal's memoirs bitterly attack the Vatican for steadfastly refusing an alliance with Nazi Germany to combat "godless Bolshevism." Far from assisting Nazi war criminals in their escape, Pius XII authorized the American Jesuit Edmund Walsh to submit to the War Crimes Tribunal at Nuremberg a dossier documenting Nazi war crimes and atrocities. The recent book by David Alvarez, "Spies in the Vatican: Espionage & Intrigue from Napoleon to the Holocaust," shows how much Hitler distrusted and despised Pius XII.....rwead more....
http://tinyurl.com/ddr3eu
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AMERICAN HISTORIAN DENOUNCES FALSE INFORMATION IN BOOK AGAINST POPE PIUS XII
Chicago, 30 (NE) Martin Doorhy, historian specialized in World War II, expressed his opinions on the publicized book of John Cornwell, "Hitler's Pope", in an interview for the Chicago "Catholic New World" weekly magazine. In his declarations, he underlined that it was impossible for Cornwell to work exhaustively in the Archives of the Secretariat of the Vatican State "for months", as he stated.
"We know," said Doorhy, "his research began May 12 and concluded June 2, 1997 -22 days- including weekends he was never there. The longest time he spent in a single day was seven hours. Other days he spent only one to two hours… We know from the logs there were just two areas he accessed," and it is impossible that he investigated the archives after 1922 due to the 75-year closure rule on Vatican Secretariat of State archives. Cornwell "has drawn most of his conclusions from secondary sources unfriendly to the Church," he added.
Asked about Pope Pius XII's work with European Jews, Doorthy stated that "the 80 % survival rate in Italy is far and away the highest rate in any of (the other occupied) countries." He also stated that the 'Encyclopedia of the Holocaust', published in 1990 in Tel Aviv, written mostly by Jewish scholars -a very unbiased source-, credits Pope Pius XII with saving no fewer than half the Jews of Rome during the Nazi occupation. "Pius XII," he added, "during World War II saved more Jews than all the other church groups and rescue agencies combined."
Among other aspects, Doorhy emphasized the existence of a series of not so well known facts such as the policy of the American army not to intervene in what they called "rescue operations" to assist refugees, because this could present a serious diversion of men and supplies from "legitimate military objectives," and also the "silence" of the different meetings of great ally leaders regarding the killing of Jews in Europe.
http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=3272
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PIUS XII SAVED MORE JEWS THAN SCHINDLER, RABBI SAYS
http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=18330
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EICHMANN’S DIARY REVEALS CHURCH’S ASSISTANCE TO JEWS
Pius XII Opposed Deportations Imposed in Occupied Rome
JERUSALEM, 1 MAR 2000 (ZENIT).
After guarding Adolf Eichmann’s diaries for almost 40 years, yesterday the Israeli government made them public. Eichmann, a Nazi SS lieutenant colonel, was executed in 1962 in Israel for "crimes against the Jewish people and against humanity."
Eichmann wrote these diaries during the months following his death sentence. They are especially chilling in their description of the way the Nazi regime came to the "Final Solution" against the Jews, and the way the extermination was implemented.
The pages are also very interesting in studying the Vatican’s position on the persecution of Jews. Some people accuse the Church of having done nothing in October, 1943, when the Nazis began to deport Jews from their "ghetto" in Rome. However, Eichmann wrote that the Vatican "vigorously protested the arrest of Jews, requesting the interruption of such action; to the contrary, the Pope would denounce it publicly."
This is a confirmation of the thesis of those historians who have collected documents on the action undertaking by the Vatican to defend Jews during those dark years. It must be kept in mind that Rome was occupied, and that the Church was the only institution that had the courage to denounce the Nazi action.
In a chapter dedicated to Italy, Eichmann explains that "on October 6, 1943, ambassador Moelhausen sent a telegraphic message to Foreign Minister Ribbentrop in which he said that general Keppler, SS commander in Rome, had received a special order from Berlin: he had to arrest 8,000 Jews who were living in Rome to deport them to northern Italy, where they would be exterminated. General Stahel, commander of the German forces in Rome, explained to ambassador Moelhausen that, from his point of view, it would be better to use the Jews for fortification works. On October 9, however, Ribbentrop answered that the 8,000 Jews of Rome had to be deported to the Mathausen concentration camp. He emphasized that, in giving evidence under oath in the military prison of Gaeta on June 27, 1961, Kappler said that it was with that order that for the first time he heard the term ‘Final Solution.’ "
"At that time, my office received the copy of a letter, that I immediately gave to my direct superiors, sent by the Catholic Church in Rome, in the person of Bishop Hudal, to the commander of the German forces in Rome, general Stahel. The Church was vigorously protesting the arrest of Jews of Italian citizenship, requesting that such actions be interrupted immediately throughout Rome and its surroundings. To the contrary, the Pope would denounce it publicly. The Curia was especially angry because these incidents were taking place practically under Vatican windows. But, precisely at that time, without paying any attention to the Church’s position, the Italian fascist government passed a law ordering the deportation of all Italian Jews to concentration camps," Eichmann wrote in his diary.
"The objections given and the excessive delay in the steps necessary to complete the implementation of the operation, resulted in a great part of Italian Jews being able to hide and escape capture," Eichmann wrote. A good number of them hid in convents or were helped by men and women of the Church. ZE00030107
http://www.ewtn.com/library/chistory/zpi12eic.htm
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JEWISH RECOGNITION OF POPE PIUS XII's SUPPORT
Document Reveals Generous Jewish Donation to Catholic Church Following WWII
ROME, 30 JUL 1999 (ZENIT).
http://www.ewtn.com/library/issues/zpius12.htm
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http://www.ewtn.com/library/issues/zpius12.htm
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And let's not forget how highly Pope Pius XII was regarded by Rabbi Israel Zolli (chief Rabbi of Rome who converted to Catholic Chirstianity after the War and took the name "Eugenio" at his baptism in honor of Pope Pius XII whose given name was Eugenio Pacelli.
Israele Anton Zolli, the Chief Rabbi of Rome during the German occupation, wrote: “Volumes could be written on the multiform works of Pius XII, and the countless priests, religious and laity who stood with him throughout the world during the war.”
“No hero,” he said, “in all of history was more militant, more fought against, none more heroic, than Pius XII in pursuing the works of true charity... and thus on behalf of all the suffering children of God. What the Vatican did will be indelibly and eternally engraved in our hearts... Priests and even high prelates did things that will forever be an honor to Catholicism.”
Zolli was so moved by the Pope's efforts that he became a devoted friend of Pius XII. He eventually converted to the Catholic Faith, and took for his baptismal name, in 1945, Eugenio, in honor of Eugenio Pacelli (Pius XII). Rabbi Zolli's daughter, the psychiatrist Myriam Zolli, has issued a strong defense of Pius XII. She said the Pope was in steady contact with her father, and he worked diligently to save Jews from persecution. In an interview in the Italian daily Il Giornale, she recalled her father's prediction that Pope Pius XII would become a scapegoat for the West's silence in the face of the Holocaust. She concluded that “the world's Jewish community owes him a great debt.”
http://www.michaeljournal.org/piusXII.htm
The following is excerpted from the eulogy given by Golda Meir on the occasion of the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958:
In 1958, at the death of Pope Pius XII, Golda Meir, then Israel's Minister of Foreign Affairs, delivered a eulogy on behalf of the nation of Israel to the United Nations, stating: “We share the grief of the world over the death of His Holiness Pius XII. During a generation of wars and dissensions, he affirmed the high ideals of peace and compassion. During the 10 years of Nazi terror, when our people went through the horrors of martyrdom, the Pope raised his voice to condemn the persecutors and to commiserate with their victims. The life of our time has been enriched by a voice which expressed the great moral truths above the tumults of daily conflicts. We grieve over the loss of a great defender of peace.”
http://www.michaeljournal.org/piusXII.htm
Susanna
The 3:30 am post is an excellent reference on Pius XII. I wonder if Joyce has read the lectionary gospel reading of last Sunday? I would not want to offend her sensibility that Catholics have no connection to the Scriptures by citing it here. Let's just suffice to say that there are a few demons here that need silencing.
Joyce:
Your "credibility" is so OVER!!!
I find it most discomforting that once again - this sight has degenerated to this level - who's to blame (some one is asking themself)?
search your own heart first - wake up to the hour in which we live and remember - HIS will be done - not your's or mine.
DouginMI
To DouginMI (7:25 AM):
We Catholics HAVE searched our hearts, Doug.
It makes no sense to us that the same Jesus who would create HIS Catholic Church and specifically announce that "the gates of Hell shall NOT prevail against it" would ever ALLOW humans (e.g. a blogger like Joyce) to come along and DESTROY what He built!!!
Maybe you and others should be the ones searching your OWN hearts.
Oh, and by the way - when Jesus commanded us to "love thy neighbor as thyself" - he did NOT say, "EXCEPT for Catholics and Jews."
But if you want to "buy into" what the New Agers are trying to do - pit the Protestants against the Catholics and Jews by using disinformation techniques - hey, who am I to try and stop you?
Just remember though - that the New Agers have a clear agenda and definite plans for the Ptotestants AFTER that - first the Jews, then the Catholics, and THEN the Protestants.
Time to wake up!!!
I guess there's no point in visiting this site for information about the NWO agenda. It's now all about Roman Catholicism. Those who are indoctrinated in it are seldom convinced. The argument is pointless. But why has it become the main event here? While the Globalists are taking over we are re-fighting the Reformation?
Susanna,
I wasn't attaching those for you. I guess you looked anyway, which is fine..but you are very clear where you stand, but for people who haven't been in the Catholic church some of this might be interesting
You probably think ECT( Evangelicals and Catholics Together) is a good thing...because more of the Evangelicals are coming back to Rome..those without a sense of history and what the separation was all about in the first place.
I don't agree with everything Dave Hunt says, but on that count I do think he's right on. There are huge doctrinal differences between Catholics and Evangelicals and to pretend they don't exist is absurd.
Sadly today many people don't think through where they stand doctrinally...all part of the dumbing down which will lead to the ultimate deception. You do understand the Catholic doctrines which is evident from your posts, so it's not because of ignorance that you stay in the Catholic Church. I wouldn't accuse you of that.. You, unlike many Catholics I've known over the years actually understand and believe in their teachings..
Unlike some here, I don't believe in ecumenic unity.. I believe in Biblical truth. That would be the narrow way..If we depend on anything other than Yeshua's finished work on the tree for our justification we have missed the point.. He is the one gives us our new identity.
It is only when we are born-again that we will see the Kingdom of God. This means that my old person is no longer alive. I have died with Yeshua and now have a new identity..
Justification does not come through a church. It comes through the Spirit of the living God with no intermediaries, no sacraments, no saints...If you are born-again, you will understand what I mean.. If you are not you won't..I'll leave it there.. The new man is alive in Messiah Yeshua.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.. You must be born again... Now once you are born-again because you have the Spirit indwelling you want to obey God i.e. be immersed in water, follow His Commandments. These things don't justify you, they are the fruit of the new life.
1Cor. 15:50 ¶ Now I say this, brethren, that aflesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
Therefore the new birth is essential..not sacraments or an intermediary..
John 3:6 “aThat which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
John 3:8 “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
It's not infant baptism that saves, but being born of the Spirit..Remember the wind represents God's breath..His Spirit. Those are Yeshua's words not mine..
In our old identity which is corrupted by sin, we cannot inherit the kingdom. We can do all the sacraments, say all the rosaries, novenas, etc.. that we want. Those things that the RCC teaches do not save a person.
I am not forgiven by priests, indulgences, penance, etc.. Forgiveness is a function of my repentance period, not going to a priest. That idea creates lots of job security for priests but is not Scriputr
James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. ( qualifier being to one another not to a priest)
Now after that, I have some differences with Evangelical theology, in that I don't feel that they severed the ties with Catholicism adequately and to me this explains the tendency to come back to Mother Rome.. Dave Hunt would probably not agree on this point..at least not at the moment.
The breaking away from the Hebraic roots of the faith have created an orange tree, and from the orange tree grew up tangelos and other kinds of fruit, but they haven't yet started growing olives. There are a few churches I've run acrosss that attempt to do this and realize who they are...descendents of Israel.
Israel is an olive tree, not an orange tree...Olive trees produce olives..The wild branches need to go back to the olive tree, not to the orange tree...then they will produce olives as they were intended to.
One of the most important and interesting subjects in the Bible is who we are...first we are a new creation in Messiah, when we are born of the spirit, so the old me is dead and I am now alive with new idea, I am justified, declared innocent before a Holy God.. This is the really good news of the gospel. It's a free gift, no one can purchase it, work for it or do anything to deserve it... accept believe by faith.
After being born again the question is who am I covenanted to? I am covenant to the God of Israel, in Yeshua.. which means regardless of my ethnic origin i.e. Jew or Gentile...you who were once a stranger to the covenants have been brought near and are part of the Commonwealth of Israel ( not the Roman Church).. God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of Israel. He never once describes Himself as the God of the Roman Church.
Now Yeshua came for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, and everyone else who wants to come into this covenant with Israel....they become effectively Israel.. In order to be the bride, they must be declared just before a Holy God, which is what Yeshua did for us on the tree, He bore our iniquities. We now are the righteousness of Yeshua.. That allows believers to come into the covenants.. with Israel.
This is a very important point because the Church has not replace Israel, nor is it the Church plus Israel.. There is only Israel, God's called out assembly which will include the physical descendants of Jacob who have been justified by Messiah ( they must be grafted back in) and the nations who become like Ruth.
The Catholic Church practices what we call replacement theology. It tried to replace the olive tree instead of having believers attach to the olive tree.. Now one thing you said that I agree with is that the Jews themselves at a certain point ( non -believing Jews) kicked out the believing Jews.. This was mainly tied to the rebellion of Simon Bar Kochba because the Jewish followers of Yeshua would not follow the false messiah's attack on Rome, and fled.. From that time on, it became difficult for Jewish believers to go to synagogues.
So if that's true, how do we attach ourselves to Israel.. Had that second generation of believers realized who they were they wouldn't have formed a separate entity. They would have stayed as part of Israel, even if they didn't go to the synagogues.. Why am I saying this?
If you read the book of Judges, after Joshua ( a type of Yeshua) leads them into the Land, they forget who they are.. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes i.e. they completely let go of God's Word and had years of chaos, where God would send them judges to deliver them from their enemies because He was compassionate..
They began to assimilate with the pagan nations who inhabited the Land. We see this very clearly early in the book of Judges... That is why it is so important to stay attached to the roots..
What I am telling you, if you are born-again....you need to learn who you are and the way to know this is to go back to Scripture, not to Church Fathers.. They are never mentioned in the Bible.
If you want to keep producing oranges, stay with the Catholic Church, but if you want to be grafted to the olive tree, God's olive tree then attach yourself to the olive tree so you can produce the correct fruit...
Dorothy half gets it.. She's attached herself to Judah but not the Jewish Messiah...in time perhaps.
If you are born-again, you neither replace Israel, nor separate from Israel...you join yourself to Israel...I'm not necessarily talking about the secular Israel govt that exists, but Israel that God has been building on the Rock ( Himself) from the Wilderness...the ekklesia, the qahal..
Now since I don't believe in Replacement Theology, and I believe God has never stopped dealing with Israel of course I will be critical of an entity that has tried usurp what was given to Israel.
Islam does the same thing, but without Yeshua.. They have basically come along and said they are the final revelation. The difference, is that Catholics do believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus..
What happened at Pentecost ( Shavuot) is God poured out His Spirit on diaspora Jews and god-fearers from the nations just as He promised in the Prophets.. The schism that was created years later because of the many historical events we've discussed does not change the spiritual reality of what God has created and promised.. Now in our generation people are coming to understand this.. I believe that's because we live in prophetic times.
I also believe the Catholic Church will play a prophetic role in endtimes, but I don't think it will be a positive one. I believe the Catholic Church will be heading up the ecumenic movement of uniting religions under it.. as we are seeing today, so when I write about Roman Catholicism and the pope, it's not to upset you but because I do see it as part of Mystery Babylon. I know you don't see this yet, but just keep in mind some of the things I've mentioned about heading up the ecumenic movement. It's already playing a significant role in this regard. If I'm wrong I'll be very happy to admit it..but so far all of my worst suspicions are coming to pass.
I don't doubt there will be a remnant from the Catholic Church who come out of it...in the last days.
Joyce
I am techie challenged so please forgive my ignorance regarding all things web. But I have a thought to add to Rose's comments regarding Google and its "cloud". (Sorry if it's not you Rose. Can't remember for sure and I'm too lazy to go back through all those many loooong verbose posts to find it!)
I've been sending emails to friends lately that have been returned as undeliverable. (No problem there because I have the email wrong.) But what I have noticed is how long it takes to come back to me. Some of the returns have been delayed a week or more.
I wonder where those emails have been all that time????
To Anonymous (9:06 AM)
Re: "I guess there's no point in visiting this site for information about the NWO agenda. It's now all about Roman Catholicism. Those who are indoctrinated in it are seldom convinced. The argument is pointless. But why has it become the main event here? While the Globalists are taking over we are re-fighting the Reformation?"
___________________________________
Well, you will need to direct those questions to Joyce.
We Catholics would LOVE to get back to exposing the New Age Movement / New World Order . . . and not have to waste our time exposing DISINFORMATION AGENTS instead!!!
O M O T S 8:45 P.M.,
This Nazi element of the communitarian NA, would no doubt label any one with a nationalist devotion as a "hater".
Perhaps they are kind enough to offer a macrobiotic selection for our "last meal"?
Probably not
Joyce:
If anyone is doing any "dumbing down" - it's YOU preying on those out there who know very little about what Catholics truly believe. They are the ones who are just "sitting ducks" for your victimization.
But, you will have much to answer for before God for all of the DISINFORMATION you spread on this blog day in and day out.
So, if you're really concerned about "saving souls" - I would suggest you look inward -- into your own heart and soul.
To: YesNaSpanishTown (9:16 AM):
Re: your problems with Google
I posted this message earlier on this thread. (Google's problems have been in the news for several days.)
___________________________________
To Constance (10:31 AM):
Re: your problems with Google . . .
From the Drudge Report (01/31/09):
Yesterday's banner headline:
Google goes mad; tags rest of Internet 'harmful'
An apparent system error left millions of visitors to the site puzzled when links to all search results were flagged with the warning 'This site may harm your computer'.
It is thought the site had erroneously identified all other websites - and some of its own pages - as containing malicious software or 'malware'.
The glitch, which prevented internet users from directly clicking through to search results, was fixed within 30 minutes although users of Google's email service Gmail have since reported finding genuine messages sent mistakenly to spam folders.
The errors prompted panic among web surfers who at first feared the popular search engine had suffered some kind of major failure that could have had serious implications for internet commerce.
(For the rest of this article, click on www.drudgereport.com)
11:26 AM
Anonymous 10:51:
I do not have a Google email and my emails that have been returned are from a variety of sources, Verizon, Voicenet, Comcast and others. This has been over the course of several weeks not just during the time that Google was having its problems.
Joyce and Susanna, you are both wrong. Leave your misplaced beliefs and know the world of the Silent Ones. We are the Superior Ones who have come to Power because we Know. New Age is our leading spear. We cut and slice your foolish beliefs and our following has grown over the years beyond count because we are in tune with the Great Universal Spirit. While you chatter, we feel. While you are sure yours is the right way, we remain silent and conquer the minds of men. Look around you. You hang on to your puny beliefs, beliefs meant to turn you into sheep, in the hope of some great reward in the sky. Our followers know the joy of the reward now. You spend your days numbing your minds with the words of mere men. Faith, not needed. Hope, a waste of human years. Charity, a substitution of the material as penance for that which is the true measure, Love.
You chatter, trying to convince each other of things you believe rather than know as if one more little person will prop up your own failing beliefs. You will never be allowed to enter our inner court but you can rest on the outside knowing all is under control.
Anonymous 9:06 AM
Re: But why has it (Roman Catholicism) become the main event here?
Because several months ago, in addition to obnoxiously getting in the faces of the one or two Jewish people who were regularly posting here about the New Age Movement, Joyce started getting in my face and trashing the Catholic Church and my Roman Catholic Christian faith while I was minding my own business and not bothering Joyce.
I have witnesses who will testify to this.
Since I WAS minding my own business and not bothering Joyce, I don't feel one bit shy about challenging the offensive and/or false comments she has made about the Roman Catholic Church and my Roman Catholic Christian faith.
The fact that Joyce claims to be an ex-Roman Catholic makes her misrepresentations of the Roman Catholic Christian Faith in particualar - and Trinitarian Nicene Christianity in general - especially offensive to me.
Her behavior is redolent of the polarization strategy commonly employed by the the Communist Party U.S.A. and of agitators like Saul Alinsky.
If Constance wants to boot me off her blog, so be it. It is her blog. But if I go down, I will go down defending my faith - as well as the Trinitarian/Chalcedonian/ Nicene Christianity that I believe Constance and others here also embrace as orthodox Protestants!
Ergo, if you REALLY want to know why we are being diverted from discussing/exposing the New Age Movement, and are not just trying to push anti-Catholic buttons with your weasely little question, look to Joyce who started it all.
Anonymous 11:36
But then, on the other hand....SHE WORE A GLOVE!!!!
Anonymous @ 8:01
Why would you say this to me
"But if you want to "buy into" what the New Agers are trying to do - pit the Protestants against the Catholics and Jews by using disinformation techniques - hey, who am I to try and stop you?"
I have attempted in the past to promote some sort of understanding between all here - whatever you may hold true - I am not protesting anything - and no - I am not Catholic - but I also support your personal right to believe as you want.
I am totally awake - but your comments are simply mean spirited in my opinion.
May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you -
DouginMI
Joyce and Susanna,
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE--share emails and leave your arguing off this blogspot. Joyce, you may love the Lord your God with all your heart. I don't question your sincerity. But you have instigated these incessant arguments in the past.
They are fruitless. What is the fruit of the Spirit?--See Galatians 5:20. Your arguments are not producing Godly fruit. Instead, they are bringing out the works of the flesh dissensions, strife, wrath. So please stop. Argue in private.
Wake up! While you are busy arguing Anonymous 11:36 has spoken--another fruit of your distractions.
Here is the story, published on January 25, 2007 in the National Review Online about how the "Pope Pius XII Myth" got started.
Guess what, folks? It wasn't the Jewish community who started it!!!
_______________________________
MOSCOW'S ASSAULT ON THE VATICAN
The KGB made corrupting the Church a priority.
By Ion Mihai Pacepa
January 25, 2007
The Soviet Union was never comfortable living in the same world with the Vatican. The most recent disclosures document that the Kremlin was prepared to go to any lengths to counter the Catholic Church’s strong anti-Communism.
In March 2006 an Italian parliamentary commission concluded “beyond any reasonable doubt that the leaders of the Soviet Union took the initiative to eliminate the pope Karol Wojtyla,” in retaliation for his support to the dissident Solidarity movement in Poland. In January 2007, when documents disclosed that the newly appointed archbishop of Warsaw, Stanislaw Wielgus, had collaborated with Poland’s Communist-era political police, he admitted the accusation and resigned. The following day the rector of Krakow’s Wawel Cathedral, the burial site of Polish kings and queens, resigned for the same reason. Then it was learned that Michal Jagosz, a member of the Vatican’s tribunal considering sainthood for the late Pope John Paul II, has been accused of being a former Communist secret police agent; according to the Polish media, he had been recruited in 1984 before leaving Poland for an assignment to the Vatican. Currently, a book is about to be published that will identify 39 other priests whose names have been found in Krakow secret police files, some of whom are now bishops. Moreover, this seems to be just scratching the surface. A special commission will soon start investigating the past of all religious servants during the Communist era, as thousands more Catholic priests throughout that country are believed to have collaborated with the secret police. And this is just Poland — the archives of the KGB and those of the political police in the rest of the former Soviet bloc have yet to be opened on the subject of operations against the Vatican.
In my other life, when I was at the center of Moscow’s foreign-intelligence wars, I myself was caught up in a deliberate Kremlin effort to smear the Vatican, by portraying Pope Pius XII as a coldhearted Nazi sympathizer.
Ultimately, the operation did not cause any lasting damage, but it left a residual bad taste that is hard to rinse away. The story has never before been told.
BATTLING THE CHURCH
In February 1960, Nikita Khrushchev approved a super-secret plan for destroying the Vatican’s moral authority in Western Europe. The idea was the brainchild of KGB chairman Aleksandr Shelepin and Aleksey Kirichenko, the Soviet Politburo member responsible for international policies. Up until that time, the KGB had fought its “mortal enemy” in Eastern Europe, where the Holy See had been crudely attacked as a cesspool of espionage in the pay of American imperialism, and its representatives had been summarily jailed as spies. Now Moscow wanted the Vatican discredited by its own priests, on its home territory, as a bastion of Nazism.
Eugenio Pacelli, by then Pope Pius XII, was selected as the KGB’s main target, its incarnation of evil, because he had departed this world in 1958. “Dead men cannot defend themselves” was the KGB’s latest slogan.
Moscow had just gotten a black eye for framing and imprisoning a living Vatican prelate, József Cardinal Mindszenty, the primate of Hungary, in 1948. During the 1956 Hungarian Revolution he had escaped from jail and found asylum in the U.S. Embassy in Budapest, where he began writing his memoirs. As the details of how he had been framed became known to Western journalists, he was widely seen as a saintly hero and martyr.
Because Pius XII had served as the papal nuncio in Munich and Berlin when the Nazis were beginning their bid for power, the KGB wanted to depict him as an anti-Semite who had encouraged Hitler’s Holocaust. The hitch was that the operation was not to give the least hint of Soviet bloc involvement. The whole dirty job had to be carried out by Western hands, using evidence from the Vatican itself. That would correct another mistake made in the case of Mindszenty, who had been framed with counterfeit Soviet and Hungarian documents. (On February 6, 1949, just days before Mindszenty’s trial ended, Hanna Sulner, the Hungarian handwriting expert who had fabricated the “evidence” used to frame the cardinal, escaped to Vienna and displayed microfilms of the “documents” on which the show trial was founded. Hanna demonstrated, in an excruciatingly detailed testimony, that all were forged documents, “some ostensibly in the cardinal’s hand, others bearing his supposed signature,” produced by her.)
To avoid another Mindszenty catastrophe, the KGB needed some original Vatican documents, even ones only remotely connected with Pius XII, which its dezinformatsiya experts could slightly modify and project in the “proper light” to prove the Pope’s “true colors.”
The difficulty was that the KGB had no access to the Vatican archives, and that was where my DIE, the Romanian foreign intelligence service, came in. The new chief of the Soviet foreign intelligence service, General Aleksandr Sakharovsky, had created the DIE in 1949 and had until recently been our chief Soviet adviser; he knew that the DIE was in an excellent position to contact the Vatican and obtain approval to search its archives. In 1959, when I had been assigned to West Germany in the cover position as deputy chief of the Romanian Mission, I had conducted a “spy swap” under which two DIE officers (Colonel Gheorghe Horobet and Major Nicolae Ciuciulin), who had been caught red-handed in West Germany, had been exchanged for Roman Catholic bishop Augustin Pacha, who had been jailed by the KGB on a spurious charge of espionage and was finally returned to the Vatican via West Germany.
INFILTRATING THE VATICAN
“Seat-12” was the code name given to this operation against Pius XII, and I became its Romanian point man. To facilitate my job, Sakharovsky had authorized me to (falsely) inform the Vatican that Romania was ready to restore its broken relations with the Holy See, in exchange for access to its archives and a one-billion-dollar, interest-free loan for 25 years. (Romania’s relations with the Vatican had been severed in 1951, when Moscow accused the Vatican’s nunciatura in Romania of being an undercover CIA front and closed its offices. The nunciatura buildings in Bucharest had been turned over to the DIE, and now housed a foreign language school.) The access to the Papal archives, I was to tell the Vatican, was needed in order to find historical roots that would help the Romanian government publicly justify its change of heart toward the Holy See. The billion (no, that is not a typographical error), I was told, had been introduced into the game to make Romania’s alleged turnabout more plausible. “If there’s one thing those monks understand, it’s money,” Sakharovsky remarked.
My earlier involvement in the exchange of Bishop Pacha for the two DIE officers did indeed open doors for me. A month after receiving the KGB’s instructions, I had my first contact with a Vatican representative. For secrecy reasons that meeting — and most of the ones that followed — took place at a hotel in Geneva, Switzerland. There I was introduced to an “influential member of the diplomatic corps” who, I was told, had begun his career working in the Vatican archives. His name was Agostino Casaroli, and I would soon learn that he was truly influential. On the spot this monsignor gave me access to the Vatican archives, and soon three young DIE undercover officers posing as Romanian priests were digging around in the papal archives. Casaroli also agreed “in principle” to Bucharest’s demand for the interest free loan, but he said the Vatican wished to place certain conditions on it. (Up until 1978, when I left Romania for good, I was still negotiating for that loan, which had gone down to $200 million.)
During 1960-62, the DIE succeeded in pilfering hundreds of documents connected in any way with Pope Pius XII out of the Vatican Archives and the Apostolic Library. Everything was immediately sent to the KGB via special courier. In actual fact, no incriminating material against the pontiff ever turned up in all those secretly photographed documents. Mostly they were copies of personal letters and transcripts of meetings and speeches, all couched in the routine kind of diplomatic language one would expect to find. Nevertheless, the KGB kept asking for more documents. And we sent more.
THE KGB PRODUCES A PLAY
In 1963, General Ivan Agayants, the famous chief of the KGB’s disinformation department, landed in Bucharest to thank us for our help. He told us that “Seat-12” had materialized into a powerful play attacking Pope Pius XII, entitled The Deputy, an oblique reference to the pope as Christ’s representative on earth. Agayants took credit for the outline of the play, and he told us that it had voluminous appendices of background documents put together by his experts with help from the documents we had purloined from the Vatican. Agayants also told us that The Deputy’s producer, Erwin Piscator, was a devoted Communist who had a longstanding relationship with Moscow. In 1929 he had founded the Proletarian Theater in Berlin, then sought political asylum in the Soviet Union when Hitler came to power, and a few years later had “emigrated” to the United States. In 1962 Piscator had returned to West Berlin to produce The Deputy.
Throughout my years in Romania, I always took my KGB bosses with a grain of salt, because they used to juggle the facts around so as to make Soviet intelligence the mother and father of everything. But I had reason to believe Agayants’s self-serving claim. He was a living legend in the field of desinformatsiya. In 1943, as the rezident in Iran, Agayants launched the disinformation report that Hitler had set up a special team to kidnap President Franklin Roosevelt from the American Embassy in Tehran during the Allied Summit to be held there. As a result, Roosevelt agreed to be headquartered in a villa within the “safety” of the Soviet Embassy compound, which was guarded by a large military unit. All the Soviet personnel assigned to that villa were undercover intelligence officers who spoke English, but, with few exceptions, they kept that a secret so as to be able to eavesdrop. Even given the limited technical capabilities of that day, Agayants was able to provide Stalin with hourly monitoring reports on the American and British guests. That helped Stalin obtain Roosevelt’s tacit agreement to let him retain the Baltic countries and the rest of the territories occupied by the Soviet Union in 1939-40. Agayants was also credited with having induced Roosevelt to use the familiar “Uncle Joe” for Stalin at that summit. According to what Sakharovsky told us, Stalin was more elated over that than he was even over his territorial gains. “The cripple’s mine!” he reportedly exulted.
Just a year before The Deputy was launched, Agayants had pulled off another masterful coup. He fabricated out of whole cloth a manuscript designed to persuade the West that, deep down, the Kremlin thought highly of the Jews; this was published in Western Europe, to great popular success, as a book entitled Notes for a Journal. The manuscript was attributed to Maxim Litvinov, né Meir Walach, the former Soviet commissar for foreign affairs, who had been fired in 1939 when Stalin purged his diplomatic apparatus of Jews in preparation for signing his “non-aggression” pact with Hitler. (The Stalin-Hitler Non-Aggression Pact was signed on August 23, 1939, in Moscow. It had a secret Protocol that partitioned Poland between the two signatories and gave the Soviets a free hand in Estonia, Latvia, Finland, Bessarabia, and Northern Bukovina.) This Agayants book was so flawlessly counterfeited that Britain’s most prominent historian on Soviet Russia, Edward Hallet Carr, was totally convinced of its authenticity and in fact wrote an introduction for it. (Carr had authored a ten-volume History of Soviet Russia.)
The Deputy saw the light in 1963 as the work of an unknown West German named Rolf Hochhuth, under the title Der Stellvertreter. Ein christliches Trauerspiel (The Deputy, a Christian Tragedy). Its central thesis was that Pius XII had supported Hitler and encouraged him to go ahead with the Jewish Holocaust. It immediately ignited a huge controversy around Pius XII, who was depicted as a cold, heartless man more concerned about Vatican properties than about the fate of Hitler’s victims. The original text presents an eight-hour play, backed by some 40 to 80 pages (depending on the edition) of what Hochhuth called “historical documentation.” In a newspaper article published in Germany in 1963, Hochhuth defends his portrayal of Pius XII, saying: “The facts are there — forty crowded pages of documentation in the appendix to my play.” In a radio interview given in New York in 1964, when The Deputy opened there, Hochhuth said, “I considered it necessary to add to the play a historical appendix, fifty to eighty pages (depending on the size of the print).” In the original edition, the appendix is entitled “Historische Streiflichter” (historical sidelights). The Deputy has been translated into some 20 languages, drastically cut and with the appendix usually omitted.
Before writing The Deputy, Hochhuth, who did not have a high school diploma (Abitur), was working in various inconspicuous capacities for the Bertelsmann publishing house. In interviews he claimed that in 1959 he took a leave of absence from his job and went to Rome, where he spent three months talking to people and then writing the first draft of the play, and where he posed “a series of questions” to one bishop whose name he refused to reveal. Hardly likely! At about that same time I used to visit the Vatican fairly regularly as an accredited messenger from a head of state, and I was never able to get any talkative bishop off into a corner with me — and it was not for lack of trying. The DIE illegal officers we infiltrated into the Vatican also encountered almost insurmountable difficulties in penetrating the Vatican secret archives, even though they had airtight cover as priests.
During my old days in the DIE, when I would ask my personnel chief, General Nicolae Ceausescu (the dictator’s brother), to give me a rundown of the file on some subordinate, he would always ask me, “For promotion or demotion?” During its first ten years of life, the Deputy leaned toward the Pope’s demotion. It generated a flurry of books and articles, some accusing and some defending the pontiff. Some went so far as to lay the blame for the Auschwitz atrocities on the pope’s shoulders, some meticulously tore Hochhuth’s arguments to shreds, but all contributed to the huge attention this rather stilted play received in its day. Today, many people who have never heard of The Deputy are sincerely convinced that Pius XII was a cold and evil man who hated the Jews and helped Hitler do away with them. As KGB chairman Yury Andropov, the unparalleled master of Soviet deception, used to tell me, people are more ready to believe smut than holiness.
FALSEHOODS UNDERMINED
Toward the mid 1970s, The Deputy started running out of steam. In 1974 Andropov conceded to us that, had we known then what we know today, we would never have gone after Pope Pius XII. What now made the difference was newly released information showing that Hitler, far from being friendly with Pius XII, had in fact been plotting against him.
Just a few days before Andropov’s admission, the former supreme commander of the German SS (Schutzstaffel) squadron in Italy during World War II, General Friedrich Otto Wolff, had been released from jail and confessed that in 1943 Hitler had ordered him to abduct Pope Pius XII from the Vatican. That order had been so hush-hush that it never turned up after the war in any Nazi archive. Nor had it come out at any of the many debriefings of Gestapo and SS officers conducted by the victorious Allies. In his confession Wolff claimed that he had replied to Hitler that his order would take six weeks to carry out. Hitler, who blamed the pope for the overthrow of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, wanted it done immediately. Eventually Wolff persuaded Hitler that there would be a great negative response if the plan were implemented, and the Führer dropped it.
It was also during 1974 that Cardinal Mindszenty published his book Memoirs, which describes in agonizing detail how he was framed in Communist Hungary. On the evidence of fabricated documents, he was charged with “treason, misuse of foreign currency, and conspiracy,” offenses “all punishable by death or life imprisonment.” He also describes how his falsified “confession” then took on a life of its own. “It seemed to me that anyone should at once have recognized this document as a crude forgery, since it is the product of a bungling, uncultivated mind,” the cardinal writes. “But when I subsequently went through foreign books, newspapers, and magazines that dealt with my case and commented on my ‘confession,’ I realized that the public must have concluded that the ‘confession’ had actually been composed by me, although in a semiconscious state and under the influence of brainwashing… [T]hat the police would have published a document they had themselves manufactured seemed altogether too brazen to be believed.” Furthermore, Hanna Sulner, the Hungarian handwriting expert used to frame the cardinal, who had escaped to Vienna, confirmed that she had forged Mindszenty’s “confession.”
A few years later, Pope John Paul II started the process of sanctifying Pius XII, and witnesses from all over the world have compellingly proved that Pius XII was an enemy, not a friend, of Hitler. Israel Zoller, the chief rabbi of Rome between 1943-44, when Hitler took over that city, devoted an entire chapter of his memoirs to praising the leadership of Pius XII. “The Holy Father sent by hand a letter to the bishops instructing them to lift the enclosure from convents and monasteries, so that they could become refuges for the Jews. I know of one convent where the Sisters slept in the basement, giving up their beds to Jewish refugees.” On July 25, 1944, Zoller was received by Pope Pius XII. Notes taken by Vatican secretary of state Giovanni Battista Montini (who would become Pope Paul VI) show that Rabbi Zoller thanked the Holy Father for all he had done to save the Jewish community of Rome — and his thanks were transmitted over the radio. On February 13, 1945, Rabbi Zoller was baptized by Rome’s auxiliary bishop Luigi Traglia in the Church of Santa Maria degli Angeli. In gratitude to Pius XII, Zoller took the Christian name of Eugenio (the pope’s name). A year later Zoller’s wife and daughter were also baptized.
David G. Dalin, in The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews From the Nazis, published a few months ago, has compiled further overwhelming proof of Eugenio Pacelli’s friendship for the Jews beginning long before he became pope. At the start of World War II, Pope Pius XII’s first encyclical was so anti-Hitler that the Royal Air Force and the French air force dropped 88,000 copies of it over Germany.
Over the past 16 years, the freedom of religion has been restored in Russia, and a new generation has been struggling to develop a new national identity. We can only hope that President Vladimir Putin will see fit to open the KGB archives and set forth on the table, for all to see, how the Communists maligned one of the most important popes of the last century.
—Lt. General Ion Mihai Pacepa is the highest-ranking intelligence officer ever to have defected from the former Soviet bloc. His book Red Horizons has been republished in 27 countries.
http://tinyurl.com/36ubs2
Hi Madame Blav.... er....Anonymous 11:36
Thanks for the reassurance that all is in control. Chortle. I was just telling another blogger friend of mine today how feeble my faith has been of late. It's depression. I'm used to it. Then you come along. Well, welcome. Everyone's allowed in here, as you can see.
Tell me something. Is that spear under the big bird's butt that was part of the hidden graphic that formed the background of Obama's campaign website representative of the New Age weaponry that you referred to? Is that the Spear of Destiny that you guys think can win all wars? The one that Hitler tried so hard to possess?
Your superiority really is astounding you know. So glad you have found your joy in the here and now of the material world you hate so much since Jehovah created it. Good luck when your body starts rotting in the earth in spite of all the great knowledge you acquired.
BY the way, was that you making the lights blink while I was typing this? Nice trick!
Constance, I keep telling you to get rid of anonymous posters. When will you listen,my friend?
Susanna, you cannot fight me with facts as you do Joyce. It is why we are in control.
OLDMANOFTHESKI-
Well bingo! Thanks for that link and your astute observations! The link again folks is here in case you missed it:
http://gtinitiative.org/perspectives/visionaction.html
After watching the slideshow, Steve, it certainly looks like Obama is THE major CHANGE AGENT in this great transition initiative! Yes, he is moving quickly forward in all the directions that this website pointed out as being imperative to our new planetary shift- the big transition to major austerity,(a la policies of Foreign Policy adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski), population control (first 3 days in office he uses executive orders to reverse ban on US funding of family planning around the world), environmental controls,(just last week here in my state, new bills were signed into place regarding stricter EPA requirements of emissions in state agencies overseeing current EPA standards and controls), global citizens movement, (Yup, put all the young people out of work and you'll force them to sign up to be part of Obama's civilian youth corps!), etc. etc. etc. I could go on and on but what's the point?
It's pretty obvious to me that Obama is one of the major CHANGE AGENT ACTORS on the current global stage.
NO wonder the New Agers are so happy about their newly elected Lightworker- more and more it seems that Obama will be their Messiah as a change agent for this great planetary shift!
Thanks again for the link.
just a thought, Has Solana ever responded to the WWW idea's that he might be the antichrist? I just sent a letter to his press people asking that same question.
JD 3:11
Sorry, just trying to catch up here on all the comments(and I see there's a lot I can skip, thankfully).
What a weird website! What's your take on it? Do you think it's another trick to scare people?
Great find, though! I was almost tempted to send it off to some of my relatives (who think I'm a kook) so they could get their reservations in, but I thought better of it.
Suzette,
Thanks for adding my link to your site. Your name doesn't link to your website however. Please leave your link, or better yet, link your screen name to your site so it's easier to find.
I'll link back when I have your web address.
Thanks again,
YG
YG
Have I ticked your ears and disturbed you? So much the better that a young grasshopper learns of real fights.
YesNaSpanishtown,
I have no intention of sharing e-mails with Joyce.
I believe that you mean well, but please do NOT put me in the same category as Joyce.
Joyce is the one who goes around trashing other peoples' religious beliefs with her Catholic-baiting and Jew-baiting rants, not me.
Moreover, I am not challenging Joyce's comments for the purpose of convincing Joyce of anything. I am challenging them for the benefit of poorly educated Catholics who might be reading this blog and think the falsehoods Joyce is spreading about Roman Catholicism are true.
The fact i think, is that both the protestant church, and the catholic institution, bear little resemblance to our Saviors desire for a living, healthy, loving fellowship.
Both are corporate bodies, run by the will of directors.
The catholic church has neither an exclusive temporal power, nor apostolic succession. Its clear from Matthew 8:14 that Peter was married, and there is no record of him setting foot in Rome.
I believe a willing heart can find salvation in Christ in either building. Despite the religiosity of the institutions.
We will never find a spirit of unity, with such strong defensive emotions over exclusivity.
To Anonymous 11:36 A.M., "cut and slice your foolish beliefs"? Have you read any New Age writings? Seems the standard for insanity! I will pass on your "inner courts" You are caught/lost, in a spiritual waste land, and need Yahushua. I hope you do come to know Him.
YESNASPANISHTOWN,
Don't let Anonymous 11:36 worry you.
It's probably Dorothy just missing us.
Waving. Hi Dorothy!
PS: though I do agree with you, Yesnaspanishtown. The doctrinal arguments here do get wearisome. Personally, I think God puts us in specific churches for specific reasons.
As long as we love Jesus as our savior and Lord, that's the important thing, IMHO.
Anonymous 12:20 PM
Re: Susanna, you cannot fight me with facts as you do Joyce. It is why we are in control.
That is why I have a very special way of dealing with you "noosphere residents".....by not dealing with you at all. LOL You are UNREAL!!!
Anonymous 12:29-
No you haven't disturbed me. I've met my share of aliens over the years and I get a big kick out of their arrogance. Besides, grasshoppers don't have ears, you moron.
(Dorothy, if it's you I apologize for calling you a moron.)
Yes in Spanishtown,
The other day I criticized Rick Warren and I didn't hear a peep out of anyone...hmmm.. Isn't it interesting that we can critique Pat Robertson, Chuck Colson, and any other number of leaders in the Evangelical world but the Catholics are off limits.. What if everyone was sensitive like Susanna and the other anonymous posters.. We criticized that fellow with all the tattoos, the Muslims, and I don't know who else..
I didn't know that the pope had a special little protection around him that says "off limits" I am the vicar of Christ...
Sorry, but Susanna and the others have never opened their mouths when the other religious leaders are criticized, but they can't handle anything negative about the RCC..
I don't write about the RCC to bother Susanna, anymore than I write about Rick Warren to be bother evangelicals.. It's simply a matter of looking at the info out there. Take a look at the picture of the pope on this:
http://www.cmf.ch/
Look at photo 1 of the Peace Academy.
This summer we wrote considerably about Heinrich Eliayhu Benedikt's participation in this forum with a Saudi Prince... Now we can't say anything when the pope is part of the same thing!! Sorry, but the pope is every bit as much a part of the ecumenic movement as Rick Warren, Tony Blair, Prince of Jordan, etc, etc.. .
We need to wake up to this false peace movement that is very much a part of the New Age Movement and the New World Order.. If I have to eliminate the pope, then I must also eliminate all the other players..
Not meaning to give you a hard time, but just speaking my mind here a bit..
I would appreciate if some of the believers on the blog would speak up if they see what I'm seeing...I can't believe I'm the only one...
If the blog is about being politically correct then let's not criticize any religious leaders Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Messianic, Hindu, Buddhist, etc...
Not writing what I think for Susanna and the other Catholics, especially or against them.. I'm just writing what I think..
Joyce
Susanna,
Thank you for your response to my post. I remember that you are newer to this blog (I am new too--since summer). If you look at posts between Nov. and Dec. of 2008, you will see that no amount of response will stop Joyce.
I understand your purpose in responding; however, to be honest, most of us just skip or collapse the comments. We are reading neither yours or Joyce's comments.
To answer her charges just invites more commentary. If you feel that you cannot leave a comment without answer, I recommend finding a one-sentence disclaimer and allow her comments to drop.
It seems even Jesus wasn't compelled to answer the Pharisees arguments. When he did, he usually did so with a question that shut them up!
Joyce,
If you haven't got the message, yet, we are tired of your commentary.
Post-ers like me, appreciate this blog for information exchange. Your commentary and instigation muddle this forum, at best, and at worst, discredit and discourage valid posts.
Please use maturity and self control.
Terri
Joyce,
When leaders, evangelical, catholic and otherwise (no one argues the NA Matthew Fox, or Chardin, eg.) are actively promoting NA agenda, we should and must expose what they are saying.
What we are tired of are your overly verbose, and incessant wranglings back and forth. If you must, make a point and then leave it alone, please.
Joyce, you go after the entire Catholic church with a sledge hammer and after the Protestants with a toothpick to separate the support for the New Age movement from the rest. You have destroyed your own credibility.
Yes in Spanish town,
You can feel free to continue to collapse my comments, but if you do then there would be not need for the unkind comments...I talk about issues, institutions and religious, political leaders, current events, etc.. but you will take note that in spite of some very unkind comments toward me, I have done my best to not attack anyone on the blog... I will continue to keep my comments impersonal and speak only about issues that concern me...
I would advise you to continue to collapse my comments if you don't have any interest in reading.. There are many comments that I bypass, and when I do, I don't feel any need to try to embarrass or correct the person that made them.. I simply bypass them...It's actually not very difficult.
Joyce
For those who are following the Crans-montana forum:
http://www.peace-academy.ch/index.php
http://www.peace-academy.ch/events.php
http://www.peace-academy.ch/fr/photos.php
http://tinyurl.com/dych6j
http://tinyurl.com/buq9yn
http://tinyurl.com/d2d8hf
Well God really is a God of justice.. breaking headline, 5 hours ago German Bishops ask Benedict to step down:
http://tinyurl.com/bxl8ry
Looks like some German Catholic Bishops don't think the pope is infallible either.
Joyce
I hope some of the believers on the blog see the problem with this:
http://tinyurl.com/bajyn4
This is the false unity I'm referring to...
Joyce
I can see where you would have a problem with this Joyce:
"Offering special prayers for the Holy Land, the pope said the Christians who live there and those who visit on pilgrimage must act in a way that demonstrates how "the diversity of rites and traditions does not have to constitute an obstacle to mutual respect and fraternal charity."
Cult leaders that you seem to follow believe it's their way or the highway. No mutual respect or charity allowed. Their reading of God's word is the final word.
DISCLAIMER: The following is not a personal attack.
If you take scripture seriously then unity with pagan catholicism is out of the question. When comparing the scripture to roman catholicism it can't be considered biblical christianity. This unity is nothing more than a luciferian attempt to render biblical christianity powerless.Be careful what you eat (spiritually).
Silvia
YesNASpanishtown,
Re:If you feel that you cannot leave a comment without answer, I recommend finding a one-sentence disclaimer and allow her comments to drop.
It seems even Jesus wasn't compelled to answer the Pharisees arguments. When he did, he usually did so with a question that shut them up!
Thank you for your response to my post.
It is a very good recommendation.
:-)
This is an interesting video. Please listen carefully:
http://tinyurl.com/bokjn3
The pope and Ervin Laszlo both believe in evolution..
http://tinyurl.com/aoohk5
I'll repeat, I think the it is only because of the Scriptures that I know the difference between truth and lies...this is evidently not the case with Pope Benedict XVI.
Listen carefully to the video, those who believe in the inerrancy of the Scriptures..
If you don't think this is important today, then throw out your Bibles and follow the pope.. Maybe some on the blog don't understand what's at stake..
Joyce
Silvia,
Amen..
Joyce
Shem 1777,
You actually said that a lot better than I could and with a lot fewer words.. Can you teach me how to do that.. I failed that class in school..
I hope 11:36 anonymous is Dorothy again...otherwise it's getting very strange here on the board..
Joyce
Anonymous 2:48 pm,
No..this was what I was referring to...
While the hopes for full unity and Eucharistic sharing remain on the horizon, they inspire Christians "who want to live in harmony with the prayer of the Lord 'that all would be one so that the world would believe,'" the pope said.
Some of us on the blog don't want to share the "Eucharist". We don't believe in transubstantiation.
Joyce
Anon 8:01 said to Doug: "Maybe you and others should be the ones searching your OWN hearts."
YOUR COMMENT FOLLOWS A SIRIT LEAD COMMENT FROM DOUG: "HIS will be done - not your's or mine."
I don't know what your agenda is, but some of us have learned to pass over what does not interest us without being nasty to one of the kindest, most sweet bloggers; I'm sure his comment demonstrates more introspection than you seem capable of. This back and forth from Joyce and Sue is nothing new, but your directing your fountain of bitter self-righteousness makes me sick!
This is quite amazing..for those who want to dig a little....I know Rudi is good at that...
This is off the Vatican website:
http://tinyurl.com/aum5q7
Here's the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem..
http://tinyurl.com/cn2py5
It's like something out of the DaVinci Code..
Interesting connections:
http://tinyurl.com/carr5j
This one is kind of fun:
http://tinyurl.com/aguzxq
But this is a must see!!
http://www.constantinian.org.uk/main.htm
http://tinyurl.com/ckg938
Scroll down to the bottom you of this and you will find the famous 'coexist" symbol which can be found as a link on Tony Blair's website.. There is a lot here in these orders with all their Grand Masters...sounds a bit masonic.. doesn't it?
Joyce
Hopper,
I for one believe the 2012 myth as a whole is designed to be the response for the disasters about to come on this planet. I believe websites such as this one are meant to give credibility to this type of claim.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
and drinking largely sobers us again.
Alexander Pope, An essay on Criticism
English poet & satirist (1688 - 1744)
From Wikipedia
In Greek Mythology, it was believed that drinking from the Pierian Spring would bring you great knowledge and inspiration. Thus, Pope is explaining how if you only learn a little it can "intoxicate" you in such a way that makes you feel as though you know a great deal. However, when "drinking largely" it "sobers" you now that you are wise and have a greater understanding, and also "drinking" it "largely sobers" you so you may never acquire complete wisdom and understanding.
I honestly believe Dave Hunt's job was to contain my work and he did a masterful job of it for a time and season. I broke with him completely and never looked back on or about October 7, 1988.
Constance
For many reasons, I would not buy a used car from Dave Hunt with whom I used to closely work. Dave "finished" William Law's book, THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT. The book, for the record, interestingly enough, has a clear "Cross of Light" on its cover, so very, very similar to those that Benjamin Creme claims Maitreya is "causing" on churches and buildings all over the world. The book was published by Norman Grubb and his Christian Literature Crusade of Fort Washington, PA 19034 in 1971. Dave Hunt had told me he had never met Norman Grubb. That was bluntly a lie. Norman Grubb published Dave Hunt's first two books, this one and CONFESSIONS OF A HERETIC by Dave Hunt detailing his involvement in the Charismatic Movement.
Although Dave claimed this book THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT was 100% biblical, in truth, it is obviously a 100% attack on literal bible reading.
It was Jacob Boehme who was Madame Blavatsky's inspiration for naming her society THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY.
Quoting Grubb's foreword to Dave Hunt/William Law's book:
"Through Boehme the midday sun of God's revelation in Christ shone into Law; and while Boehme, as an illiterate shoemaker, could not put his inner insights into coherent German . . . William Law could and did reproduce the essence of Boehme in Law's matchless SPIRIT OF LOVE AND SPIRIT OF PRAYER.
"I had not previouslyu read this one, THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT, which I am so glad Dave Hunt has now produced for us. I go all the way with it . . ."
The book is clearly very, very similar to what Alice Bailey calls the initiation of "Christ being born in the cave of one's heart."
I have become sadly convinced that Dave Hunt (who has obvious ties to Norman Grubb and necessarily with Abraham Vereide/Doug Coe because that's what Grubb's ties were -- Grubb was Abraham Vereide's biographer -- his brother, Sir Kenneth Grubb, was the co-founder with Denis Healey and Sir Anthony Wass Buzzard of the International Institute of Strategic Studies -- one of Solana's major think tanks today) was to contain my work and aid in my early marginalization. He very nearly successfully accomplished this by making statements when our work was associated together as "there's no such thing as mental illness."
Interesting also that Pat Robertson featured Dave Hunt and Dave was invited to be a speaker at that Christian disinformation conference held at the Denver Seminary on March 15-16, 1985. J. Gordon Melton presented a paper there: A CHRISTIAN RESPONSE TO THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW. Melton is an opener follower of vampire cults and Ramtha "the 35,000 year old man". Dave called me after that conference and tried to tell me what a good Christian brother Gordon Lewis, one of the organizers was. I told Dave then about what I had learned of Gordon Melton's activities and Dave said, "hmm, I wonder why they invited me?" GOOD QUESTION, DAVE!
Gordon Lewis was another one involved with Gold Lake conferences chaired by . There are obvious Paul Temple links!
I cannot give my blessings to the book you cite by Dave Hunt, Joyce. The strategy of the New Age Movement was to pit target groups off against one another. Wittingly or unwittingly (and in Dave Hunt's case, I can only suspect wittingly, even cunningly), Dave Hunt has done a master job of just that.
I wil be on the radio tonight with Mr. Fife, God wlling, at 8 p.m eastern time, 5 p.m. Pacific time.
Constance
To JD 4:21:
I am inclined to agree with you on your assessment of the 2012 myth. That was my belief back in 1981 when I started my serious research on the New Age Movement. They are going to say that the disasters coming upon the earth are their predictions or our failure to give proper deference to the "Earth Gaia 'goddess'" That is the clear divide of Revelation 14 -- a line we dare not cross -- FEAR GOD AND GIVE GLORY TO HIM FOR THE HOUR OF HIS JUDGMENT IS COME -- WORSHIP GOD WHO CREATED THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH, THE SEAS AND THE FOUNTAINS OF WATER" They are worshipping just about everything else but the good Lord who created it!
Constance
I found the Co-Exist thing today on a picture of Frank Buchman talking with Mae West. He was holding a book about MORAL REARMAMENT -- CO-EXIST. The Buchman group which has regrouped as INITIATIVES OF CHANGE is clearly into the Co-Exist thing today!
Interestingly, Norman Grubb, Sam Shoemaker, Abraham Vereide and so many others had tight ties with Buchman.
Constance
From the Baptismal vows of the Catholic Church:
"Do you reject Satan?"
I DO
The Roman Catholic Church so very clearly rejects Lucifer, Silvia, what is your basis or calling it Luciferic?
Looks like Lucifer in person or one of his crummy minions must have visited our blogspot today --
"Joyce and Susanna, you are both wrong. Leave your misplaced beliefs and know the world of the Silent Ones. We are the Superior Ones who have come to Power because we Know. New Age is our leading spear. We cut and slice your foolish beliefs and our following has grown over the years beyond count because we are in tune with the Great Universal Spirit. While you chatter, we feel. While you are sure yours is the right way, we remain silent and conquer the minds of men. Look around you. You hang on to your puny beliefs, beliefs meant to turn you into sheep, in the hope of some great reward in the sky. Our followers know the joy of the reward now. You spend your days numbing your minds with the words of mere men. Faith, not needed. Hope, a waste of human years. Charity, a substitution of the material as penance for that which is the true measure, Love.
"You chatter, trying to convince each other of things you believe rather than know as if one more little person will prop up your own failing beliefs. You will never be allowed to enter our inner court but you can rest on the outside knowing all is under control."
New poster here....
I rarely sign on on blogger.com; I have other responsibilities on other sites, work with youth, etc, etc.
I do like to follow what's going on here though. I've been a fan of Constance's since the early 80's.
I tend to split equally my studies between prophecy/end times, and geopolitical "armchair" analysis. "Armchair," because on the internet, anyone can be an expert! :^)
I help moderate another discussion forum, and I have to say, it is the best forum (in its area of focus) both in content AND control that I've seen.
I'm not bragging on myself, because it takes a community effort to make something like that happen. It's a combination of turning off/on the right posting controls, and people exercising some measure of self-control to keep threads on-topic. The less time the blog owner has for controlling things, the more need there is for self-policing.
My recommendation to Constance, if she even sees this, is to first of all, turn off anonymous posting. Nothing detracts from "getting the message out" like anonymous posters who are here ONLY to disrupt, misinform, and otherwise ruin the content of YOUR blog.
You created this blog for a purpose Constance; that purpose is not served when you allow detractors in.
I like an argument as well as anyone else, but if the commenting community cannot show restraint, show them the door. So my second recommendation is to ban anyone who detracts from the main purpose. Don't use a heavy hand and just get rid of anyone you disagree with, but give ample warning, and after a reasonable number of strikes, they are OUT. (After a while, you get to recognize a certain person's "style", so you have to keep an eye on "new" people registering, right after you banned someone.)
It takes more work, yes. Perhaps someone here could help moderate the comments section. Looks like at least a couple of regular posters here have enough time on their hands to help out... ;^)
I know blogger.com is not ideal for discussions. But there are some minimal measures that I think need to be implemented to make this a good source of information for those wanting to know more about the New Age Movement, and the spreading deception out there.
My time is limited. I hope to post some useful information here from time to time. Because my time is limited, I would like to be able to come here and scroll through a handful of comments and find some expanded discussion of the main topic that Constance posted.
Looking forward to tonight, Constance! The board I help moderate focuses on Russia and the deceptive strategies that are used against the West by Russia and others.
The greatest trick of any enemy is for him to convince you he is NOT your enemy.
Well that was probably the longest "first post" y'all have ever seen! My apologies. These are my suggestions....only for the sake of this blog do I offer them.
In Service to the King of Kings,
Mark
Those of you who missed the show today should check out Americantownmeting.com. Click on Essays and then on Original Essays on Barack Obama for the information that was presented. Those of you who have read Creme's books know that he honors the communists as ascended masters. Foster Bailey is quite clear that his political allegiance lies in that same area.
It is said that the communist movement split into two branches at the beginning of the 1900s, one being communism as practiced in the Soviet Union, and a supposedly gentler branch called the Fabian movement which was socialistic. They worked together as the split was possibly an experimental phase of New Age. People in the Fabian movement networked with the Theosophists.
There is no proof other than his word that Fife heard what he did, but he came across on the show as an individual who was not steeped in conspiracy theory and seemed rather distant from those who might think that way. He did say that the Russian woman said that Obama was trained from his early years on to absorb communist philosophy. That part has been documented elsewhere, starting with the company his grandparents kept and Obama's mentor in Hawaii, provided by the grandparents.
I need to put a new article up -- I need to finish my chapter for Tom Horn's book -- I need to do so many things -- no steam left tonight for them.
Pray for me and my strengthening!
Constance
Joyce,
I decided to look at a few more posts I missed before leaving my office to go home to bed. I found a link for a story where you said five German bishops had called on the Pope to resign. Intrigued by the signficance of such a development, if true, I read that the Pope had been CRITICIZED by five bishops, but it was only a "German theologian" who had called for resignation.
As I understand Catholic doctrine, the pope is not considered "infallible" unless he is speaking as they say, "ex cathedra." I don't believe that this was the case here. He clearly was not speaking "ex cathedra" and as such, Catholics were free to dissent under their doctrines.
Constance
Marko, your long comment missed one important element...the link to
"Looking forward to tonight, Constance! The board I help moderate focuses on Russia and the deceptive strategies that are used against the West by Russia and others." an area of interest to many here. The link that goes with your name only shows a blog that had a post in 2005. It would be appreciated if you could take a moment to direct us to this new source of information.
Those who have a free bit of time tonight might like to read a piece at the following link:
http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_articles/dubroweichel_steven_scholarsdeceived.htm
http://tinyurl.com/b6r6sm
Cultic Studies Review, Vol. 1, No. 1, 2002
Can Scholars Be Deceived? Empirical Evidence from Social Psychology and History
Steve K. D. Eichel, Ph.D.
Abstract
This paper explores several telling anecdotes and reviews psychological research demonstrating that scholars, however proud they may be of their independent thinking, can be influenced and even deceived by subjects, events, and processes in their research. Arthur Conan Doyle's belief in fairies, Uri Geller, the so-called psychic "spoon bender," and the "discovery" of Noah's Ark, are cases that are explored to provide examples of how researchers can be influenced. Next, cognitive dissonance, demand characteristics, and other variables studied by social psychologists are discussed to help illuminate why scholars can be deceived.
"My purpose in this paper is to deliver this not-so-earth-shattering news: Scholars can be deceived -- sometimes quite spectacularly. The evidence is overwhelming, and space permits me to present only a few examples, gleaned from history and experimental social psychology, of everyday scientists and renowned scholars who have been duped into believing the unbelievable, accepting the unacceptable, and, in the worst cases, enticed into lending their names in support of the perpetrators of the worst evils of the twentieth century. Some of my examples involve well-intended scholars who were hoodwinked and bamboozled. Other scholars have actively if naively aided and abetted fraudulent research. And finally, some have knowingly permitted or even perpetrated deception for reasons of personal gain or to advance a private agenda...."
The article shows how any individual can be deceived even though he or she feels very sure about their expertise. There are many other worthwhile articles at this website.
To Joyce and Silvia:
Before condemning Catholic doctrines on their communion you should check out
John Chapter 6
1 Corinthians, Chapter 10
1 Corinthians, Chapter 11
Bible Believing Catholic,
It's interesting the passage you point out because I used the same one earlier to show that Yeshua is the Rock, that His assembly ( ekklesia)was being built on, not Peter..not to mention numerous passages naming calling the Rock the Lord.
1Cor. 10:1 ¶ For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all bunder the cloud and all passed through the sea;
1Cor. 10:2 and all were abaptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Cor. 10:3 and all aate the same spiritual food;
1Cor. 10:4 and all adrank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was 1Christ.
Curious as to what you think about this verse:
Cor. 5:6-7Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?
Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our aPassover also has been sacrificed.
Yeshua was our PASSOVER..Passover is a mo'ed.. Obviously from the verse above Paul was still celebrating Passover...( Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread which are seen as one feast and included in the feast is First Fruits because Yeshua was First Fruit of the Resurrection)
Glad to see you are Bible believing.. Does that mean you believe in only the Bible or the Bible plus Catholic tradition.. Don't want to take for granted that I have the answer to that.
Joyce
Constance,
It looks like outcry against the pope's decision continues today with Angela Merkel adding her voice
along with others.
http://tinyurl.com/bjwo59
As for Dave Hunt... Obviously you have your personal gripes and I don't agree with everything Dave Hunt says necessarily either.. . I do think Dave was one of a small minority who pointed out the error in the Evangelicals and Catholics together.. His observations about the historical Catholic Church are founded on facts, so whether you like him personally or not isn't the issue. The book that he wrote "A Woman Rides the Beast" has quite a bit of relevant information in it.
I don't want to get out my copy and quote to you from the book... but it has much factual historical information about the Catholic Church..which is analyzed in the light of Scripture so I want to give Dave credit for that.
As you have probably realized, I'm not a fan of the new ecumenism and haven't been for a long time. There are some Evangelicals and Messianics who have jumped on that bandwagon and I will be equally critical of that.
Having said that, I am all for unity among believers, but TRUE unity. That is we shouldn't sweep the Scriptures and doctrine under the table and put it aside for the sake of unity...
The ecumenical movement seeks to do that, and today it gets even worse with Catholics, Evangelical Christians and Jews signing documents that are written "in the name of Allah the merciful and his servant Mohamed".. All of this in the name of unity. ( A Common Word)
As for Catholicism, infallibility on any issue, be it interpretation of Scripture or anything else is just not supported by the texts of Scripture and herein lies the problem. The pope has been put up on this high pedestal and the Catholic Church doctrines and when someone points out that these doctrine don't correspond with Scripture, Catholics point to their "Sacred Traditions" which to them take precedence over Scripture.
This is a hugely important reason why Catholics and believers in the Scriptures cannot be in unity. The Evangelicals and Catholics Together is a disgrace and Dave Hunt, like him or not, had the courage to say that.
I wish some more leaders who claim to defend the Scriptures would have spoken out.. It's not a question of "hating Catholics". It's simply a question of disagreeing with them strongly on their beliefs and doctrine.
To find the common denominator "Jesus" and ignore the fact that what they actually believe about the His death and resurrection is completely different than what you believe begs the question..
I'll attach one small phrase from Vatican II document on ecumenic unity:
" For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation. We believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, in order to establish the one Body of Christ on earth to which all should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God."
"The Church" is NOT the means of salvation. Yeshua the Messiah is..and this statement should prove to any Bible Believer that there is no basis for true fellowship. There are some points that just aren't negotiable. I do believe if Catholics really read their Bibles with an open mind, they can learn the truth for themselves and I don't doubt there are many that really love the Lord, but have just never questioned the teachings..
Dave's book has helped some that I know to do that and actually leave the Catholic Church..
BTW, Pat Robertson, who I know your not a fan of said this about ECT:
About this joint document Evangelicals and Catholics together, the charismatic leader and U.S. presidential candidate Pat Robertson says, "The time has come when we must lay aside minor points of doctrinal differences and focus on the centralization of our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
They're not minor...
Joyce
Constance,
I would just like to add, Dave Hunt did not turn me against the Catholic Church...My own personal experiences with it combined with reading the Scriptures did..
Just looked at your longer post and I take your word for the experiences you had with these different Evangelical leaders like Hunt, Robertson etc.
Having said that his book presents information in a logical coherent way. He gives facts about Catholic Church doctrine and history, and compares them to Scripture.. That's what I appreciated about the book. Having said that, Dave did not change my views about the Catholic Church one bit. I already held those views prior to reading the book.
Joyce
connie, do you remember this speech?
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/cms3_applications/applications/solana/details.asp?cmsid=246&BID=107&DocID=60390&insite=1
It is interesting to me that every Christian blog I have gone to today was filled with fighting.
Very little uplifting or good information just hate.
I think the Devil is really working hard on everyone and is winning.....
I think I may give up on blogs, they seem to be filled with hate and no longer a source of real discussion and information.
There is so much information to get out, yet everyone just wants to fight...
From:
Sad and alone
I've had an ah-ha moment here. Joyce must be a Dave Hunt plant here. Its the only thing that explains her actions. Hm-m-m-m.
Sad and alone,
On my part I can say there is no hate, can't speak for others, but I do want to say truth is important. One of the main ways that the apostasy will come ( or is already coming) is by the twisting of truth.
As for the nature of this blog, there are people with very diverse backgrounds, so it's not that we are all on the same page..( not to mention personalities and different cultures...)
If the Garden is any example to us at all.. remember how the snake operates. "did God really say?".
There's two ways to tackle the problem of New Age, one is to find clear and obvious examples of how it has infiltrated society, spiritual institutions. The other is to look at what Scripture says, which is the ultimate plumb-line for dividing Biblical truth.
To my mind, the most helpful thing someone can have is a firm handle on God's Word and they will not be deceived in the days ahead.. This was Paul's instruction to Timothy:
2Tim. 4:2-4 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and awill turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
According to my understanding of the times, there will come a time when speaking the truth of Scriptures will be a hate crime, and defending truth will make you an extremist. My counsel to you is learn as much Scripture as you can because ultimately, that is our best defense and our source of hope.. not necessarily being experts in the New Age ( although I'm not against people being aware).
Personally, I prefer to see people defending the truth, or attempting to, than doing what post-modernism has done:
http://tinyurl.com/5ao2rb
I'm not promoting John MacArthur, but he makes some important points in the article.
I think Brian McClaren would be one of the ones that Paul was warning Timothy about...which opens the door for much of what else is going on out there leading to the apostasy....The Bible says that the apostasy WILL come...it's a great falling away because people will no longer uphold the truth.
It would be nice to see more on the blog expressing concern about this.. Young people today in churches don't understand the New Age movement because they don't understand Scripture to begin with.. ( there are exceptions of course..and I think Gretchen on the blog was one of them)
Brian is promoting the move back to Rome which has been on of my concerns, but not everyone here shares that concern:
http://tinyurl.com/bhg46e
....coupled with a lot of New Age garbage like enneagrams. labyrinths ( labyrinths were used by the Catholic Knights Templar)
I'll pray that you are strengthened through God's Word, and we are never alone because He never leaves us or abandons us or forsakes us..
Joyce
Anonymous 5:21 said:
"The Roman Catholic Church so very clearly rejects Lucifer, Silvia, what is your basis or calling it Luciferic?"
That's why it's so important to be/become wellgrounded in the word of God in order to recognize the spirit behind any organization. In word the rc rejects but in deed it clearly does differently.
We see it happening again:
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge.....Hosea 4:6
Silvia
Joyce:
As for Dave Hunt:
1. His book WHATEVER HAPPENED TO HEAVEN has a clear denial of the reality of Hell.
2. I heard him say that the Albigensians were good "Bible believing Christians." They were anything but -- they were gnostics with beliefs just like those who glorify them today -- the New Agers.
The Catholics may have their faults, but they clearly do not deny Jesus is the Christ.
I have seen no more blatant attack on the very Bible itself than Dave Hunt's book, THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT. Read it for yourself and weep.
Constance
Joyce,
What I perceive Dave Hunt as doing and you falling into the trap of not seeing is in pitting the target groups off against each other. One does not have to read very far into Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and Alice Ann Bailey to see that Jews, Christians and Moslems are all targets. One has to read very little of those books to know that Catholics are deep targets of the New Age.
The strategy has been to penetrate all target groups as far as possible and then to pit the remaining orthodox off against each other.
Constance
Constance,
I agree with you completely I am so glad you are stressing this, it has always what you have said,
I wrote and posted here before from my article:
The Dangers of Infighting Amongst the Believers of God
Here is a quote from it:
“So many different faiths fought amongst themselves for so long that we lost site our common enemy. Much of our energies were focused arguing with each other instead of watching the movements of our mutual enemy. So we then contributed to our own demise. That is exactly what the adversary planned. He wants to sow discord, confusion and disillusionment among the Faithful of God, so he could sneak right in right under our noses and make us look judgmental, unloving, petty and really stupid in the process. Then he presents a beautiful, loving and accepting spirituality that is all shiny and new compared to the of old beaten-up faiths. In this way he wins many gullible souls to his side.”
“I feel that all those that believe in the God of Abraham and are on the hit list of the New Age Occult need to focus on our common enemy and band together and put aside the in-the-tower issues and fight against the real enemy. Instead of gnawing on ourselves, together we need to take a nice big juicy bite out of him.”
If we are fighting with each other the real enemy will win. Anyone that is on the hit list must stand together. We can not waste our time pointing fingers at minor issues. We need to work side by side.
Thanks Constance!!!!
Constance,
I staid up all night to hear you late night replay...but they did not do it. bummer. They changed the times around.
Rose
Constance,
RE: TOM HORN
I just noticed that you said that you need to finish a chapter for Tom Horn's book.
Is this the Thomas R. Horn who wrote 'Nephalim Stargates'?
If so, I am wondering what you think of Horn's writing. I just finished 'Nephalim Stargates' and although he (Horn) professes to be a believer, the stuff in his book seems very New Agey to me. Also troubling for me was that throughout the book he would make rather incredible statements that he'd profess were backed by scripture. He'd then include the scripture verse. But when I would go and read my own NIV bible the verse wouldn't sound anything like the way he'd interpreted it! Then I would wonder what bible he was using! An example is that he claims that Nimrod was in fact a Nephalim. He uses 1CHronicles 1:10 to substantiate this claim. When I read the verse quoted, I find nothing there to indicate that Nimrod was a Nephalim!
Just wondered whether you are writing a chapter on the New Age for this same Tom Horn, and your thoughts about his work.
Although some of the book seemed very relevant to today's times, I was troubled by the inaccuracies in his alleged bible references.
Joyce,
I'm pretty sure this won't provide much comfort to you, but I'm going to throw it out there, anyway.
Last week, at the Tuesday morning women's meeting I attend each week at my church, one of the church elders who I'll call Dolores brought in her best friend, Mary, who happens to be a devout Catholic. Mary and her husband are deacons in the Catholic church and also do bible studies at their home for other Catholics. Her husband always tries to win the lost and asks people to repeat the sinner's prayer whenever he has a chance to pray with anyone. Mary seemed incredibly sincere and authentic in her faith and walk with Jesus.
The woman's story about being born again was remarkable in and of itself, but is too long to repeat here.
Any way, the elder from my church, Dolores said that people have often approached her and said to her, "Why don't you try to get your friend out of that church?!"
Dolores told us that for many years she would worry about her friend being in the Catholic church, but finally she did some serious praying about it. She felt the Lord replied to her that her friend Mary was exactly were HE wanted her to be.
Dolores went on to tell us that we should pray that our friends and loved ones are placed in the churches where God wants them to be, not the churches that WE THINK ARE WHERE PEOPLE should be.
Anyhow, that helped me in many ways, as I, too , have been concerned about the various New Age practices that have seeped into so many churches. I have had many thoughts about leaving my own church, because of friendships that my pastor has had with people that I question. (Like Dr. Peter Wagner) But then I'll pray about it, and God seems to answer that he wants me to stay exactly where I am, at least for now.
Someone, I think it was Shem, had a really good answer in this thread.
All churches have problems- none are perfect. But if we closed down every single church that had some crazy minister in it, who maybe preached a sermon once in a blue moon that didn't seem to mesh with doctrine according to say, Herescope's interpretation of it, or a pastor who was associated in the distant past with someone who someone else deems is a heretic, then where would we go for fellowship, comfort, assembly, worship and spiritual uplifting?
I have been looking at the fruits produced at my church, and they are enormous. We are a tiny church of less than 50 people, but the missions outreach done all over the world by this little church is utterly amazing.
So even though my pastor has had some associations with people that the blog Herescope would stone, I'm still staying where I am until God tells me otherwise.
Hope that helps.
Maryanne
Constance,
Sometimes we just disagree with something because we disagree with it, no more no less. It's not always a New Age plot.
I happen to disagree with Islam because they deny the death, resurrection and deity of Yeshua and because they have added to and subtracted from the Scriptures. I don't dislike Muslims just because they are Muslims or think they are all terrorists..although a percentage of them might be. Muslims need Yehsua/Yesua too ( in which case they would no longer be Muslims). Most Muslims have no idea really what the Bible says..They've been told it was tampered with.. We should not leave them in their ignorance..
I happen to disagree with Judaism for the similar reasons although there is certainly much more within Judaism that I do believe and accept because Judaism has not thrown out Torah, they just don't interpret it in the light of the Gospel and so Jews in Judaism still need to be transformed by their Jewish Messiah. Jewish tradition can also be a smokescreen that keeps out truth. What I mean is that they spend a lot of time focusing on halacha and miss the meaning of the commands. Yeshua does a good job explaining this in Matt. 5-6 Have quite a few Jewish friends who still practice Judaism and I really love them but I do pray for their salvation..and share about Yeshua as the door opens.
I happen to disagree with the Catholic Church's addition of "sacred tradition" which causes distortion of the message of what the gospel is and how one is redeemed, and a number of their practices. To my mind the Catholic Church did a lot of damage early on and has continued throughout the centuries, although you can find a message about Jesus buried underneath 5000 other doctrines that obscure who He is and what He did. If anything, I believe the confusion and distortion of Catholic doctrine helps the New Age movement.. There are probably Catholics who are born-again and just confused doctrinally, and those that are just part of the Church and need to meet their Savior.. Have lots of Catholic friends that I have occasion to share Scriptural truths with.
There are of course Evangelicals, Messianics and among them infinite variations on doctrine and practice..
In fact, I prefer to say, all that is not Scriptural in all of these religions directly or indirectly helps the New Age movement, because if people don't know the truth, they can easily be deceived..
Now New Agers need to know Yeshua too, so while it is good to see how it's infiltrating we should not think of them as the enemy but people who are lost and blind and without hope.. They may be controlled by the enemy, but they themselves are not the enemy. There are probably those that are so evil, that they are beyond redemption...Not for me to judge though.
It is wrong to say that what I am promoting is disunity. I am promoting the only true unity which is based on Yeshua the Messiah and His Word.. Apart from this, all attempts at unity are false..
Now, am I always tactful and diplomatic.? No, I failed that class ( although I can be if necessary).. but what I am sharing is simple truth. It just seems crazy to me to see people be experts on the New Age and then burn in hell..
I think you have discovered something that many believers have not seen, and you've done a very good job exposing the New Age...however in the process of doing this I also believe it's important to keep the main thing, the main thing..
The main thing is being born-again without which no one, Catholic, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, New Ager will see the kingdom of God..
I read Alice Bailey but frankly had to throw her book out..In fact, I really felt like the Lord was telling me that I was giving Satan to much opening by even having the book in my house. It's so demonic and I just prefer not to put that in my mind but put Scripture in instead. I do have a basic understanding of what her plans were, but she is dead and Yeshua is alive and I'd rather eat from the Tree of Live..
Joyce
Good Word YG! Thank you for that wise and balanced testimony.
On another note:
Kyrgyzstan to close key US airbase:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/02/03/kyrgyz.base/index.html
OR http://tiny.cc/KAjVB
This is an interesting development in light of the Munich Security Conference.
Also, Fulfilled Prophecy highlights some articles about upcoming elecions. The two "biggies" are Tzipi Livni and Bibi Netanyahu.
Joyce,
One more thing. I am in a hurry so hopefully this will make sense in spite of my haste.
In 1994, I was attacked by a New Age witch. She cursed me and my family. My house actually exhibited evidence of demons in it. I was Catholic at the time. I was horrified and didn't know what to do. I called the pastor of the Catholic church that I had attended for years- where I'd baptized my kids and taught CCD. I begged for help from the priest. The response I received was that I hadn't paid Catholic charities in 5 years and because of this they couldn't be helpful. So a good friend brought me to an Assembly of God church. At first I was uncomfortable there, but the pastor came out and prayed at my house and the "Demonic spirit" left. Eventually I settled in there. A miracle happened there in 1998. My doctor thought I had breast cancer. The church prayed over me and I was healed. A few years later we moved away, and now I am where I am now. The AoG church where I received many blessings and even healing also taught Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Course" while I was there.
What am I trying to say?
The Catholic church nourished me for many years in my spiritual walk. The Assembly of God church nourished me for about 6 or 7 years before I left. I'm not sure I'll stay where I am now either. But I was in the right place at the right time for ME at that time. When God wanted me to move on, he made it happen. If anyone had told me back in 1993 that I was going to leave the Catholic church, I would not have believed them.
When God wants to move people, He does it. We can't do it. We can only pray for the Holy Spirit to give us the guidance and direction that we need .
I hope I didn't offend anyone here. It was not my intention.
I'm off to work now, but I hope that helps somewhat.
Maryanne
Maryanne,
Of course all congregations have problems. On the other side of eternity those things will be straightened out.. It's not the first time I've heard of Catholics who were born-again and stayed in the Church to reach other Catholics..
The people I know who stayed to reach others with the gospel message eventually had to leave because it was intolerable for them once they started studying the Scriptures.
As far as telling anyone where to go and worship.. that's not my objective or my business.. I was just sharing what I think of the Catholic Churches teachings and why I don't agree.
God calls us to be holy and set apart, so Scripturally it doesn't make sense to me that someone should stay in a situation where God's Word is being contradicted by the practices and teaching.. but I also know it's hard for people to leave something they've been in their whole life.
It reminds me of the Israelites being in Goshen. They seemed to ignore the fact that there was blood of the Isarelite babies in the Nile...The question is always, when is it time to get out? God had to really push Israel to leave remember.
In the last days there will probably be many who have to leave their congregations.... What does come out of Babylon, come out of her my people mean??? We know the apostasy will come before the man of lawlessness appears..
Since we know babel ( the root of Babylon ) means confusion, we know that God will be telling us to leave compromised situations ( not imperfect.. but compromised ) I already have friends who are finding their congregations becoming intolerable..I'm not saying we should expect perfection.. that's not what I'm talking about.
Remember God is preparing a bride.. The more you study Tanach ( Torah, prophets, writings) the more you see how God is really holy.. This concept of holiness and separation is sometimes lost today.. we always accept imperfect people because we all are, but we don't have to sit under faulty doctrine..because then we will not grow or be useful to anyone.
I'm not trying to say black and white things here. Staying and leaving ones spiritual family is always a big deal and we need to really pray through and make sure that we are not just being superficial, but God's Word is too important to ignore or compromise.
Blessings,
Joyce
I love it . . .
Tom Daschle has to withdraw his nomination for Health and Human Services Secretary because of tax problems, but Timothy Geithner sails right through with approval for Treasury Secretary despite his tax problems.
But, why should we be concerned about "proper vetting" of potential candidates in Washington?
After all, if Barack Obama had been properly "vetted" - he never would have become Senator of Illinois, let alone President of the United States!!!
Maryanne,
Just read your second post about your testimony. I fully agree.. It's God who does it.. I am glad that on the journey He put people in my path who shared things...even some who really ticked me off to be honest with you.. Sometimes my irritation was part of the spiritual battle I was going through.
Thanks for sharing that testimony.. It goes along with what I said.. God basically waited till Israel's cry went up and even then He was the one that had to move them out. They did not just get up one day and say "we're leaving" He did use Moses though.
I agree, God will move those Catholic friends along when it's time.. I can think of many examples of this in my own life too...
Joyce
p.s. there are times when we are not supposed to go anywhere.. but stay and try to make a difference...
Joyce
p.p.s.. I hope Herescope has taken to stoning people..Yeshua paid our death penalty.. :o) Joyce
To Joyce (7:47 AM):
Re: "To my mind the Catholic Church did a lot of damage early on and has continued throughout the centuries . . ."
________________________________
No, Joyce - YOU are the one who is trying to do "a lot of damage" to the Catholic Church.
But (thank you, God) - there are many on this blog who are FINALLY waking up to your transparent attempts and TRUE agenda - which is to pit religous groups against each other and cause discord and dissention on this blog.
Thank you, YG/Maryanne for your very balanced perspective.
It is very important for us all to remember that the New Age has infiltrated all of our churches (not just the Catholic Church).
Constance 9:57 P.M.
THANKS!!!
You've got it exactly right - both on the article about the German bishops AND on papal infallibility.
For what it is worth, I would like to explain that in the Catholic Church, bishops are not allowed to consecrate priests as Catholic bishops without the permission of the Pope.
As it stands right now, there are only four SSPX bishops including the anti-Semitic renegade Bishop Williamson whose statements have even been denounced by the
SSPX.
If Pope Benedict XVI allowed things to stand as they were, there was a very real danger that this schism could replicate itself in terms of more Williamson "clones" being created if Williamson, who is, I believe, 69 or 70 years old, decided to consecrate more bishops.
Since excommunication is something a person does to himself and not something that is imposed from without against a person's will, it was fitting that initially, it was the SSPX Superior General Bishop Bernard Fellay who requested the lifting of the excommunications along with the reestablishment of the Tridentine (Latin) Mass as two preconditions of entering back into discussions with the Holy See about full reunion.
The stigma of excommunication is something that the SSPX especially wanted to eliminate.
As it stands right now, the bishops of the SSPX as well as all of the SSPX priests are "suspended a divinis" which means that they can VALIDLY confer the Sacraments ( because Catholics believe the validity of the Sacraments depends on Christ )but cannot LICITLY administer the Sacraments unless someone is in danger of death - because Catholics also believe that Christ delegated to the popes the authority to govern the Church.
While being "suspended a divinis" is not a good place for a Catholic priest or bishop to be either, it is less grave than excommunication.
I seriously doubt that after coming this far, Bishop Fellay would want to do anything that would result in the reimposition of the penalty of excommunication -like consecrating more bishops without the permission of Pope Benedict XVI.
As Superior General of the SSPX, I seriously doubt that Bishop Fellay is going to allow his other SSPX bishops to do so either.
MARYANNE,
Thanks for your input.
IMHO, your comment can be summed up in a phrase that I have quoted elsewhere:
"BLOOM WHERE YOU ARE PLANTED!"
"It is very important for us all to remember that the New Age has infiltrated all of our churches (not just the Catholic Church)."
I just want to remark that the New Age has infiltrated into many churches...all would be a bit of an exaggeration,.but the problem with Catholicism it is built on the wrong foundation..which is a separate problem all together.
In addition to that problem, there is also New Age influence in the Catholic Church.. Just trying to keep the issues straight here.
Joyce
Top story on today's Drudge Report (2/4/09)
Pope's brother defends his Holiness over Williamson holocaust scandal -- Georg Ratzinger slams Angela Merkel over criticism
Georg Ratzinger has defended his brother Pope Benedict XVI over his decision to rehabilitate Bishop Williamson, a Holocaust denier, into the Catholic Church - and slammed Angela Merkel for her criticism.
Bishop Williamson scandal
Williamson (68) was excommunicated from the Catholic Church in 1988 and has now been rehabilitated by Benedict XVI. He has often publicly denied the Holocaust, as well as airing other outrageous conspiracy theories.
“He doesn’t need me to defend him. But it angers me how unjust and badly informed the people who are attacking him are,” the Regensburg Music Music Director, 'Domkapellmeister', Georg Ratzinger told German newspaper ‘Leipziger Volkszeitung.’ He finds the harsh criticism the Pope has received from people in his native Germany, as well as from the rest of the world, unjust: “We always speak about an informed society, when in reality it is uninformed.”
Georg Ratzinger (85) finds German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s open criticism of the Pope particularly disappointing: “I always saw her as a rational woman. But perhaps at the moment she is under pressure to say something irrational.” Ratzinger says he speaks with his brother in the Vatican on the phone, but doesn't discuss the scandal: “We usually talk about personal things.”
German bishop Gregor Maria Hanke has also slammed Merkel’s opinion, saying he finds it disconcerting “how the Pope’s integrity is now being questioned by politicians and statesmen."
Even members of the German Parliament are criticising Merkel for involving herself in the debate surrounding the rehabilitation: CSU politician Bernd Posselt warned the Chancellor about continuing to “act as the Pope’s teacher.”
Angela Merkel has, however, received support from members of her own party, the Central Council of Jews and SPD head Franz Muntefering, who said: “I think it is unacceptable to rehabilitate a bishop who denies the Holocaust.”
After days of silence the Pope addressed his weekly audience of the faithful at the Vatican - but did not mention the scandal.
I must confess I have not read Tom Horn's book. Dr. Monteith recommended him to me as somebody interested in reprinting THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW. Mr. Horn invited me to contribute a chapter to a book he is compiling and I accepted.
Constance
Joyce, how dare you say the Catholic Church IS BUILT ON THE WRONG FOUNDATION. It is clearly built on JESUS CHRIST himself!
To Joyce (9:31 AM):
Re: " . . . but the problem with Catholicism it is built on the wrong foundation . . ."
___________________________________
The "wrong foundation"???
Jesus said to Peter:
"And I say unto thee that 'thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it'." (Matthew 16:18)
You seem to be very "selective" about which "word of God" you want to quote.
You know, Joyce - it's really exhausting for us Catholics to have to come along and constantly clean up YOUR mess!!!
Mebbe Joyce thinks it should be built on "Lost Tribes" and tearing down the Trinity!
Hint to Joyce re:
"I agree, God will move those Catholic friends along when it's time.. I can think of many examples of this in my own life too...
Joyce"
Time to move on Joyce. If God put those words in your mind, he must be telling you something.
To the Catholics who insist Peter's the Rock.. I didn't want to do this but you really need to read all the places in the Bible where the Lord is called the Rock.. I don't know why anyone would want to build their assembly on Peter ( nothing against him) when they can build it on the Lord Himself..
Rom. 9:33 just as it is written,
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
Deut. 32:4 “aThe Rock! His work is perfect,
bFor all His ways are 1just;
cA God of faithfulness and without injustice,
Righteous and upright is He.
Deut. 32:15 ¶ “aBut 1Jeshurun grew fat and kicked —
You are grown fat, thick, and sleek —
bThen he forsook God cwho made him,
And scorned dthe Rock of his salvation.
Deut. 32:18 “You neglected athe Rock who begot you,
bAnd forgot the God who gave you birth.
Deut. 32:30 “aHow could one chase a thousand,
And two put ten thousand to flight,
Unless their bRock had sold them,
And the LORD had given them up?
Deut. 32:31 “Indeed their rock is not like our Rock,
aEven our enemies 1themselves judge this.
Deut. 32:37 “And He will say, ‘aWhere are their gods,
The rock in which they sought refuge?
Judg. 6:21 Then the angel of the LORD put out the end of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat and the unleavened bread; and afire sprang up from the rock and consumed the meat and the unleavened bread. Then the angel of the LORD 1vanished from his sight.
Judg. 15:8 He struck them 1ruthlessly with a great slaughter; and he went down and lived in the cleft of the rock of Etam.
Judg. 15:11 Then 3,000 men of Judah went down to the cleft of the rock of Etam and said to Samson, “Do you not know athat the Philistines are rulers over us? What then is this that you have done to us?”
1Sam. 2:2 “aThere is no one holy like the LORD,
Indeed, bthere is no one besides You,
cNor is there any rock like our God.
“aThe LORD is my 1rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
2Sam. 22:3 1aMy God, my rock, in whom I take refuge,
My bshield and cthe horn of my salvation, my stronghold and dmy refuge;
My savior, You save me from violence.
2Sam. 22:32 “aFor who is God, besides the LORD?
bAnd who is a rock, besides our God?
2Sam. 22:47 “The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock;
And exalted be 1aGod, the rock of my salvation,
2Sam. 23:3 “The God of Israel said,
aThe Rock of Israel spoke to me,
‘bHe who rules over men righteously,
cWho rules in the fear of God,
Neh. 9:15 “You aprovided bread from heaven for them for their hunger,
You bbrought forth water from a rock for them for their thirst,
Psa. 18:2 The LORD is amy 1rock and bmy fortress and my cdeliverer,
My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge;
My dshield and the ehorn of my salvation, my fstronghold.
Psa. 18:31 For awho is God, but the LORD?
And who is a rock, except our God,
Psa. 18:46 ¶ The LORD alives, and blessed be bmy rock;
And exalted be cthe God of my salvation
,
Psa. 19:14 Let the words of my mouth and athe meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Your sight,
O LORD, bmy rock and my cRedeemer.
Psa. 27:5 For in the aday of trouble He will bconceal me in His 1tabernacle;
In the secret place of His tent He will chide me;
He will dlift me up on a rock.
Psa. 28:1 ¶ To You, O LORD, I call;
My arock, do not be deaf to me,
For if You bare silent to me,
I will become like those who cgo down to the pit.
Psa. 31:2 aIncline Your ear to me, rescue me quickly;
Be to me a rock of 1strength,
A stronghold to save me.
Psa. 31:3 For You are my rock and amy fortress;
For bYour name’s sake You will lead me and guide me.
Psa. 40:2 He brought me up out of the pit of destruction, out of the miry clay,
And bHe set my feet upon a rock making my footsteps firm.
Psa. 42:9 ¶ I will say to God amy rock, “Why have You forgotten me?
Why do I go bmourning 1because of the coppression of the enemy?”
Psa. 61:2 From the aend of the earth I call to You when my heart is bfaint;
Lead me to the rock that is higher than I.
Psa. 62:2 He only is my rock and my salvation,
My bstronghold; I shall not be greatly shaken.
Psa. 62:6 He only is amy rock and my salvation,
My stronghold; I shall not be shaken.
Psa. 62:7 On God my asalvation and my glory rest;
The rock of my strength, my brefuge is in God.
Psa. 71:3 aBe to me a rock of bhabitation to which I may continually come;
You have given ccommandment to save me,
For You are my rock and my fortress.
Psa. 78:16 He abrought forth streams also from the rock
And caused waters to run down like rivers.
Psa. 78:20 “Behold, He astruck the rock so that waters gushed out,
And streams were overflowing;
Can He give bread also?
Will He provide 1bmeat for His people?”
Psa. 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock,
And the Most High God their Redeemer.
Psa. 81:16 “1But I would feed you with the finest of the wheat,
And with honey from the rock I would satisfy you.”
Psa. 89:26 “He will cry to Me, ‘You are amy Father,
My God, and the brock of my salvation.’
Psa. 92:15 To 1declare that athe LORD is upright;
He is my rock, and there is cno unrighteousness in Him.
Psa. 94:22 But the LORD has been my astronghold,
And my God the rock of my refuge.
Psa. 95:1 ¶ O come, let us asing for joy to the LORD,
Let us shout joyfully to the rock of our salvation.
Psa. 105:41 He opened the rock and water flowed out;
2It ran in the dry places like a river.
Psa. 114:8 Who aturned the rock into abpool of water,
The flint into a fountain of water.
Psa. 137:9 How blessed will be the one who seizes and adashes your little ones
Against the rock.
Psa. 141:6 Their judges are athrown down by the sides of the rock,
And they hear my words, for they are pleasant.
Psa. 144:1 ¶ Blessed be the LORD, my rock,
Who trains my hands for war,
And my fingers for battle;
Prov. 30:19 The way of an eagle in the sky,
The way of a serpent on a rock,
The way of a ship in the middle of the sea,
And the way of a man with a maid.
Is. 8:14 “Then He shall become a asanctuary;
But to both the houses of Israel, a bstone to strike and a rock to stumble over,
And a snare and a ctrap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Is. 10:26 The LORD of hosts will aarouse a scourge against him like the slaughter of bMidian at the rock of Oreb; and His cstaff will be over the sea and He will lift it up dthe way He did in Egypt.
Is. 17:10 For ayou have forgotten the bGod of your salvation
And have not remembered the cock of your refuge.
Therefore you plant delightful plants
And set them with vine slips of a strange god.
Is. 22:16 ‘What right do you have here,
And whom do you have here,
That you have ahewn a tomb for yourself here,
You who hew a tomb on the height,
You who carve a resting place for 1yourself in the rock?
Is. 26:4 “aTrust in the LORD forever,
For in 1GOD the LORD, we have an everlasting Rock.
Is. 30:29 You will have 1songs as in the night when you keep the festival,
And gladness of heart as when one marches to the sound of the flute,
To go to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
Is. 31:9 “His rock will pass away because of panic,
And his princes will be terrified at the bstandard,”
Declares the LORD, whose cfire is in Zion and whose furnace is in Jerusalem.
Is. 32:2 Each will be like a arefuge from the wind
And a shelter from the storm,
Like 1bstreams of water in a dry country,
Like the ashade of a huge rock in 3a parched land.
Is. 33:16 He will dwell on the heights,
aHis refuge will be the impregnable rock;
bHis bread will be given him,
His water will be sure.
Is. 44:8 ‘Do not tremble and do not be afraid;
aHave I not long since announced it to you and declared it?
And byou are My witnesses.
Is there any God besides Me,
Or is there any other Rock?
I know of none.’”
Is. 48:21 They did not athirst when He led them through the deserts.
He bmade the water flow out of the rock for them;
He split the rock and cthe water gushed forth.
Is. 51:1 ¶ “aListen to me, you who bpursue righteousness,
Who seek the LORD:
Look to the rock from which you were hewn
And to the 1quarry from which you were dug.
Jer. 13:4 “Take the waistband that you have bought, which is around your waist, and arise, go to 1the aEuphrates and hide it there in a crevice of the rock.”
Jer. 18:14 ‘Does the snow of Lebanon forsake the rock of the open country?
Or is the cold flowing water from a foreign land ever snatched away?
Jer. 23:29 “Is not My word like afire?” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer which shatters a rock?
Jer. 49:16 “As for the terror of you,
The arrogance of your heart has deceived you,
O you who live in the clefts of 1the arock,
Who occupy the height of the hill.
Though you make your nest as bhigh as an eagle’s,
I will cbring you down from there,” declares the LORD.
Hab. 1:12 ¶ Are You not from aeverlasting,
O LORD, my God, my Holy One?
We will not die.
You, O LORD, have appointed them to judge;
And You, O Rock, have established them to correct.
Matt. 7:24 ¶ “Therefore aeveryone who hears these words of Mine and 1acts on them, 2may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt. 7:25 “And the rain fell, and the 1floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
Matt. 16:18 “I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My assembly; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
Luke 6:48 he is like a man building a house, who 1dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the 2torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.
Luke 23:53 And he took it down and wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid Him in a tomb cut into the rock, where no one had ever lain.
Rom. 9:33 just as it is written,
“aBEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION bA STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE,
cAND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM dWILL NOT BE 1DISAPPOINTED.”
1Cor. 10:4 and all adrank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was 1Christ.
1Pet. 2:8 and,
“aA STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”;
for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, cand to this doom they were also appointed.
WHO DO YOU THINK THE ROCK IS?
Joyce
And for the person who said that I think it should be built on the 12 tribes, no.I don't think that at all..it should be built on the Rock, Yeshua who is the foundation..
1Cor. 3:11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
The chief cornerstone:
Eph. 2:20 having been built on bthe foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the chief corner stone,
The Rock, the cornerstone, the foundation of what we build is always Yeshua, the Messiah..the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us, who was with God and was God..
If you are going to build something, it always makes sense to be sure you build it on the most solid, dependable thing...this should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about contructing something...That most solid and dependable one is Yeshua Himself..
Joyce
To Joyce (10:41):
Re: "To the Catholics who insist Peter's the Rock.."
_________________________________
No, Joyce - you are WRONG!!!
Peter was not "the rock" - he was the first head of the Catholic Church. Jesus built His church UPON the rock.
"Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Yes, neither the gates of hell -- nor JOYCE -- shall prevail against HIS Catholc Church!!!
Joyce, your silly arguments are wasting my time and yours. This will all be settled on Judgement Day.
In the meantime, I will be praying for you.
Joyce seems to think that if you build more WORDS - they will come.
LOL
It is extremely necessary to be able to analyze information that is presented to us on a daily basis. We are all vulnerable to any number of the techniques of New Age or any other "religious" hucksters who use the same techniques as the ShamWow salesman on television. It's a truism that those with street smarts are taken in far less than those who take pride in their intellectual abilities and cult leaders depend on this.
Analysts say there are thousands of cults in operation in the US alone. Leaders of these cults use the one of the same techniques as the ShamWow salesman. Confidence in his product. You hear him endlessly on television and now probably see him in your e-mailbox. Endlessly he promotes confidence in his product, and it is the basis of the success that company has. Having purchased a shamwow type product at the local Ultra store, I can tell you that there is no truth to his claims despite the confidence he shows.
So it is with all cult leaders such as those active in New Age, messianic and other cult operations. Endlessly they drone on and on about their confidence in their product. Trying to speak rationally with a believer in Obama, Oprah, Scientology, dominion theology, or any other cult gets a person nowhere. If one is polite and lets them talk on and on, they will eventually wear a person down, just like the ShamWow salesman. Very few people have the energy to keep their guard up day after day after day. CULT OPERATORS COUNT ON THIS RESPONSE. The ShamWow salesman probably knows his product doesn't perform as well as he claims it does, but he has something to gain from his sales pitch. The confidence he shows in his product probably has more to do with the money he is getting from presenting the product.
In spite of the flaws that are becoming apparent in their cult leader, Obama, followers endlessly state that that he is a good guy and must be given a chance.
Those following any cult leader, New Age or otherwise, have great difficulty admitting they have been duped. Their pride will not allow it. They must draw others into the cult to give validity to their own beliefs. That is why their confidence appears robot like.
The link to this essay was posted earlier.
"Social psychological research has repeatedly demonstrated that we are more likely to believe and judge as accurate statements made by those we perceive as attractive and prestigious (cf., Cialdini, 1984; Baron & Byrne, 1991). Individuals judged to be prestigious do not have to actually make these statements; merely being associated with these statements (the halo effect) is enough to significantly affect us. Thus, when a group sponsors a conference listing Nobel laureates and professors from famous universities among its speakers, it may not matter what the speakers say or even if they actually attend.
"The same holds true when we hear statements made with great confidence. The more confident the speaker sounds, the more likely we will judge him or her to be accurate (Bloomfield, Libby, & Nelson, 1996)....."
"Religious" cult leaders will most likely use the "halo effect" in their presentations. Even better than than the halos of professors, Nobel prize winners, and heads of corporations are the halos of Jesus, God, Ascended Masters, channeled spirits, etc. which can be used to give validity to the cult leaders presentations. Who wants to argue with God's supposed word? Who wants to argue with some "wise" channeled spirit who has lived through many reincarnations and become wise? Who wants to argue with Obama's plans? As far as the latter is concerned, only those smart enough to see into the Obama cult right from the beginning.
This is not to say that there is no validity to the religions in Christianity and Judaism. It is just to say that religious texts can be hi-jacked to promote a cult as very few are academically prepared to challenge the confidence shown by cult leaders in their interpretations.
Know that mind manipulating techniques are down to a science and have nothing to do with the truth of presentations. Simply put, Buyer Beware.
Give it up, Joyce.
Your credibility is GONE!!!
Joyce, it looks as if you are having trouble with your "a, b, c's" as they keep popping up in what you are copying in the wrong places. An analogy perhaps?
Who cares anymore the details or the Catholic Church? This has gotten so stupid. 99% of this blog is about the Catholic Church.
There is so much of it that it is hard to find anything on the New Age here anymore. I know this does not represent Constance views. So I say make your own blog and leave this one for Constance to use for “her” perspective of things.
Talk about hijacking a blog. It is getting to the point of many people not even wanting to read this blog. I feel sorry for Constance. Let her guide the topic not use it as your own forum.
It is like trying to get your beliefs out on the Shirt tails of Constance.
Enough is enough. People come her against the new age not to learn all the faults of the Catholic Church. Constance wrote no book on that subject. I suggest you put all your data in a book sell it like Constance did, then make a blog.
But no one here is interested in this Catholic bashing non-stop.
And I am not even Catholic, but at this point I would chose that over anything you preach because you have given me a bitter taste to whatever you have to say.
I will take a suggestion that you told someone else. I will collapse everything you say and only click on other people. It is Sad I have to do that but since the blog is hijacked that is the only choice. I don’t want to miss Constance and her points. Either post less, go away….
I suggest all Catholics, just ignore the Catholic bashing; I know that is hard, you want to stand up for yourselves.
The reason is it just gives her more fuel to the fire to use, and they you just get bashed more. The silent treatment would work in this case. Everyone just ignore every thing she says and may be she will learn how to be respectful of others.
Anonymous 9:47 AM
Good find re: article on Merkel!!! As the late comedian Jimmy Durante used to say "ev'rybody's gotta get inta de act."
Not surprisingly, it is the "usual suspects" who are "getting inta de act" of trashing the Pope over the lifting of the excommunications.
Just thinking about it makes me want to start roaring with laughter.
The most liberal among the bishops who are sending up the loudest howls of protest are probably scared witless that the SSPX bishops and priests WILL do whatever it takes to enter back into full loyal communion with the Pope - at which time it MAY mean for them "THE PARTY'S OVER"!!!
Anonymous 11:57 AM
Re: your comment
I suggest all Catholics, just ignore the Catholic bashing; I know that is hard, you want to stand up for yourselves.
The reason is it just gives her more fuel to the fire to use, and they you just get bashed more. The silent treatment would work in this case. Everyone just ignore every thing she says and may be she will learn how to be respectful of others.
AMEN and AMEN!!!
Ordinarily, I try to confine myself to mentioning this or that Catholic belief when I am talking about specific instances of New Age infiltration into the Catholic Church - and even then just so readers will understand what I am talking about. NOT to "convert" anyone or trash anyone else's religion.
You are right, Anonymous, it is hard to just sit back and not make any effort to defend your faith - especially when someone attacks your beliefs when you are just minding your own business like I was and respectfully trying to share New Age information with your fellow Christian ( no matter what denomination ) and Jewish brothers and sisters.
I think I am going to take your advice - along with YesNaSpanishtown's. Thank you for your input.
Joyce,
you are my sister in Christ -
I do not want to see you hammered anymore than anyone else here -
let us all-
Micah 6:7-8 (King James Version)
7Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
That all - of us - ALL OF US - may walk in HIS will
DouginMI
DouginMI
Re:That all - of us - ALL OF US - may walk in HIS will
AMEN! Words to live by! Thanks.
New blogger here...
It is important to keep in mind that the Catholic Church gave the world the Bible!!!
Ergo, there is nothing in the Bible that contradicts the Catholic Church and nothing in the Catholic Church that contradicts the Bible. The Bible cannot be used against the Church who gave it to us.
I do have a few questions, however, about the protestant belief in the theory of "Sola Scriptura" (the claim that one should root all Christian teachings - everything pertaining to faith and morals - in scripture alone):
1. Where is this theory found in the Bible?
2. Did any of the Church Fathers teach this theory?
3. How can an infallible Bible come from a "fallable" Church? Or is the Bible a fallible collection of infallible books (this is logically impossible)?
In my opinion, the theory of "Sola Scriptura" is unhistorical, illogical, unnecessary and self-contradictory. It has resulted in an unfortunate division within the church (note that there are currently over 30,000 Christian denominations). Didn't Jesus pray that we may all be one???
The main protestant "proof-text" for Sola Scriptura seems to come from 2 Timothy:
"But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you have learned it and how from your childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:14-16)
It is important to note that when Paul says scripture, he is not talking about "the Bible" as we have it, HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT! So, if we were to follow along this thread of thinking, wouldn't it make Jesus Christ unnecessary?! And, anyway, Paul nowhere says that Scripture ALONE is the rule of faith.
The Catholic Church is the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ!! The doctrine of the Catholic Church has not changed in 2000 years. Does this not tell you anything?
"Hundreds of people may hate the Catholic Church, but millions of people hate what they think is the Catholic Church."
Obviously, not all are interested in the truth. It is there for all to find - and there is only ONE truth. Unfortunately pride gets in the way. No one wants to admit that they have been misled.
What adds to the problem is that many Catholics don't know their faith and thus are unable to defend it or explain it correctly.
But isn't it interesting how, throughout history, the most malicious attacks are always against the Catholic Church? Satan exists, my friends!
yes Susanna - each and everyone of us -
and, you are welcome - :-)
DouginMI
WE're getting ready for Barry's surgery tomorrow and I have extremely busy day today -- on way to court now.
Nevertheless, I will post a new article tonight -- just to get the subjects changed and the Catholic bashing and general infighting done, if nothing else.
Pray for me -- pray for all of us!
Constance
joyce is only stating truth and backing it with the scriptures the only bashing i see here is from the catholics believe as you will but dont trash joyce for what she believes. I am an x catholic and it seems all need to choose to pleace man or please God.
God will bless you Joyce for your boldness in sharing the word of God. connie
To Anonymous 10:03 PM (and anyone else who might be interested), my shameless promotion of a discussion forum that I moderate:
My earlier post failed to include a link to it, so I'll include that here.
The forum is called "The Final Phase", and the following is a description of what the forum focuses on:
This forum derives its name from a KGB defector - Anatoliy Golitsyn - who escaped to the West in 1961. He tried unsuccessfully to warn Western Intelligence that Russia had developed a long-range plan of deception designed to lull the West to sleep leading to its ultimate conquest.
He said that the plan called for false liberalizations, including the taking down of the Berlin Wall, the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact, the democratization of Russia and the staged demise of communism itself - an unprecedented stratagem so profound that it would successfully confound all. The latter stage of this monumental deception would be known as the final phase of the plan, which is where we find ourselves today.
There is an absolute connectedness to today's world events and to Golitsyn's first-hand knowledge and methodology of analysis. Many of today's geopolitical moves are intertwined and part & parcel of The Final Phase.
If you find discussions of geopolitics of interest, and think Russia and China are not our friends, then you'll find lots of thoughtful posts there, along with some rather lively discussions.
Here's the link:
http://thefinalphaseforum.invisionzone.com/index.php?showforum=1
The Miscellaneous section is for general discussion, including TFP-related prophecy (prophecies and dreams involving Russia, the US, etc), the culture war, and other odds and ends. The Main section ("The Final Phase Forum") is for everything else.
We are approaching the End of Days, folks. There is no doubt in my mind of that. We are in the Final Phase in more ways than one.
Mark
Jeremiah 29:13
Please note, there are no responses to posts on the New Age movement and its effects. Those interested in the New Age movement appear to have left this blog for other sources of information. This blog has been successfully hi-jacked. I have some theories which I will post later.
To Anonymous (1:03 PM):
Re: "This blog has been successfully hi-jacked. I have some theories which I will post later."
_________________________________
You don't need theories. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to KNOW that Joyce has been THE blog hi-jacker for nearly a year now!!!
If you are trying to shift the blame to us Catholics for having the audacity to DEFEND our religious faith - then you are in deep denial about what's really going on here.
We will be more than happy to go back to posting comments exposing the NAM/NWO - just as SOON as Joyce STOPS posting her (professional?) well-trained disinformation techniques.
To Connie (12:56 PM):
Re: "joyce is only stating truth"
__________________________________
No, Connie - Joyce is NOT stating the TRUTH about the Catholic Church. She is using "disinformation techniques."
And we will not STOP defending our faith. If you want the Catholics to shut up - then Joyce needs to shut up.
Regarding hi-jacking, please wait until I post my comments before jumping to conclusions. It is obvious that Joyce has hi-jacked the blog, but why is something else.
Hi Mark,
I have long been aware of Anatoliy Golitsyn and his books NEW LIES FOR OLD and THE PERESTROIKA DECEPTION.
http://tinyurl.com/avfety
IMHO, Golitsyn's books are especially relevant today in light of Gorbachev's promotion of a global so-called "Third Way" as an alternative to both Capitalism and Communism.
Gorbachev is also into certain New Age beliefs.
Here is an interesting October 6, 2004 article from LifeSite News. In the article Gorbachev is described as being an associate of Maurice Strong and together they co-authored the infamous "Earth Charter":
GORBACHEV CALLS FOR "NEW WORLD ORDER"
http://tinyurl.com/dxlbup
________________________________
Here is a little review on Maurice Strong:
INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY:
WHO IS MAURICE STRONG
By Ronald Bailey Published in The National Review September 1, 1997
Mr. Bailey is a freelance journalist and television producer in Washington, D.C. He is author of Eco-Scam: The False Prophets of Ecological Apocalypse (St. Martin's) and The True State of the Planet (Free Press).
http://www.afn.org/~govern/strong.html
The following July-August, 2000 New Oxford Review article by Lee Penn also mentions Gorbachev and his Green Cross.
BEWARE! THE NEW AGE MOVEMENT IS MORE THAN SELF-INDULGENT SILLINESS
http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=0700-penn
or
http://tinyurl.com/b7h9ss
_________________________________
You might also be interested in checking out the following.
______________________________
THIRD WAY OR THIRD REICH
By Richard Poe
FrontPageMagazine.com | Thursday, June 22, 2000
http://tinyurl.com/cgy2zj
To DouginMI (12:20 PM):
AMEN . . . and may God bless you.
Also, please forgive me for lashing out at you yesterday in anger and frustration. I am so sorry.
You have always been one of the kinder gentler souls on this blog, a very FAIR minded person, and a good example of a true Christian.
Susanna,
This will be my last comment on this subject, and I'm not bashing you, just explaining.. I have been bashed but I really am just speaking Bible, not hate for anyone on the blog..
I am not selective about what Scripture I use at all.. I interpret Scripture in the context of the whole Bible...You cannot take one little verse, turn it to mean something it doesn't and then build a whole theology out of it..You have to look at the word Rock in the context of all Scripture and understand it that way.. ..
Not to give you a hard time, but honestly think..If Yeshua wanted to build His Assembly on Peter ( the word church would have made no sense at that time...they were worshipping in the synagogues and Temple) don't you think that would have been a lot clearer..The word ekklesia was used in the Greek Septuagint to mean "called out assembly" which was the same word used for the ekklesia in the Wilderness. I'm trying to help you see logically, how Peter would have understood the remark and how he would have looked back to the "rock in the Wilderness" the spiritual Rock that was the Lord. Don't forget.. Jews knew these Scriptures and they knew the Psalms.. The word church would have not made a bit of sense to Peter..it just plainly didn't exist..
What is clear is that at least 80 times ( I'm guessing I didn't count, but approximately) in the Bible the Lord identifies Himself as the Rock.. There is no mention of a pope in the Bible and no indication from Scripture that Peter headed up "the church" . . Paul was the apostle to the nations, so it would have been much more logical if anyone was to head up "the church" it would have been Paul, but that was not the case... James was the head of the Jerusalem Assembly, so there is nothing, whatsoever in Scripture to justify this interpretation of that one verse... The verse does not even say that literally.. and several verses later Yeshua says to Peter:
Matt. 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.”
Paul had to critique Peter too, after the death and resurrection of Yeshua, for being a hypocrite in the book of Galatians and avoiding the Gentile believers in front of the Jews. Hardly the one that comes across in the Epistles as the "rock".
Paul understands very well who the foundation of the called out assembly was:
1Cor. 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, bto Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles cfoolishness,
Peter did understand too...he didn't seek glory for himself but only for Yeshua:
2Pet. 3:18 but grow in the grace and aknowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Peter was not the "rock" that Yeshua was going to build His assembly on, although he was one of the apostles who helped spread the gospel. Yeshua's assembly started many years early and is also composed of the saints of Tanach who looked forward and saw His day... Yeshua existed before the foundations of the world and therefore, He was already building His assembly before He was crucified...His death atoned for all the sin of all time. We can know this because of this verse"
1Pet. 1:19-21 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
If we build on the wrong foundation, the rest of the building will fall down. It's not the size of the building that counts.. The Muslims have a big building too, so size and wealth and political power do not equate with truth.. Yeshua didn't even have a place to lay His head, let alone riches and art and buildings and a nation ( the Vatican). The called out assembly of Yeshua is made of living stones:
1Pet. 2:4-6 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in Scripture:
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
Yeshua was the choice stone, the Rock in Zion. . We are all to be living stones who are being built as a spiritual house through Yeshua the Messiah.
I hope you can see the picture of the body that was called out even in the Wilderness and looked forward to Messiah's coming and then those looking back.. We are one and the same body Susanna..those of us who are born again...and are now living stones..
I'm really not your enemy...
To the others on the blog who have been annoyed by my posts,
I won't bother you any more with the Scriptures..( well actually, I'm not promising anything) .I'm grateful for those who stood up for Scripture and understand how important it is.. Some have sent me private emails, although they haven't commented publicly.. For those of you who don't feel this is worthy of your time or your input, I would suggest to you after quite a number of years of studying Scripture and listening to Abba's voice.. it is the most important thing you can devote yourselves to.. I would suggest to you in the days ahead, the days in which we are living it is the single most important thing you can devote yourselves to...I have nothing against Susanna, nor or Dorothy, or anyone else on the blog, but the blog is forum to proclaim truth and there is no better truth than God's truth....Studying the New Age will give you some information, but studying the Scriptures is your very life as Joshua says.. And is at says in the Book of Revelations...
Rev. 3:16 ‘So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
It's not the time in history to be lukewarm...so I might write long posts, and I might be very zealous about the Scriptures...but I am not lukewarm!!! If I am not sharing God's Word with someone, I don't feel fulfilled...
I had a revelation today..the only reason my posts look so long is because the columns on the blog are so narrow...if they were wider, my posts wouldn't even take up a whole page... :o)
Constance,
I am praying for your husband.. The blog will go on and people will say this and that, but that's not the most important thing..your husband's health right now, so don't sweat the small stuff and I hope everything goes well..I'm praying. May Abba bless and protect both of you,
Joyce
Doug,
Hey, bless you too brother...Yes, may we all..
Connie, thank you for your kind words. While my main concern is what God thinks it's nice to be understood too...bless you..
Joyce
Joyce said...
Susanna,
This will be my last comment on this subject, and I'm not bashing you, just explaining.. I have been bashed but I really am just speaking Bible, not hate for anyone on the blog..
Comment to Joyce: From your lips to God's ear, may it come about that this is your last comment.
Anonymous @ 1:53 -
I absolutely forgive you - 70 times 7 :-)
Thank you for the kind words - I hope to live up to them.
we are all human - and that - may not always be a good thing.
DouginMI
caToday's IHT:
http://tinyurl.com/cc7axr
Traditionalists reject most of the teachings of Second Vatican Council. One of its key documents, "Nostra Aetate" (In Our Times) repudiated the concept of collective Jewish guilt for Christ's death.
Since Williamson made his comments one Italian member of the society said "gas chambers existed at least for disinfecting" and another called the late Pope John Paul a heretic for advancing relations with Jews.
The U.S. Jesuit weekly "America" pointed out the following phrase on its U.S. website a week after the controversy: "Judaism is inimical to all nations in general, and in a special manner to Christian nations."
Sad to hear this..
Joyce
that should have been in quotations. It was an excerpt from the article not my words, Joyce
Susanna,
I meant to say, my last comment on Peter not being the rock.. I'm not going to stop commenting...
"Comment to Joyce: From your lips to God's ear, may it come about that this is your last comment."
I just think we've covered the Peter thing pretty well and it's time to move on to other topics...
Joyce
Joyce
Your intent is good; it is just the manner or platform you take. It needs to be on a different kind of blog. There are plenty out there that deal with Catholic wrong doctrines, but this is not that blog, nor is it a blog against Jews. This is a blog that is focused on Constance and what she thinks regarding the new age and their stratiges. If you could focus on just that part people would listen.
I understand your need to spread the word as you believe it to be true. But this is not the place to discuses certain topics in great detail. It is not a free for all Forum. It is based on Constance.
From what I have read Constance is trying to be nice and is gently asking you to stop with the bashing and infighting.
You don’t feel you are doing that, you feel you are just stating truth. But those you are talking to feel attacked. When someone is feeling attacked the message is lost. So please for the sake of everyone here and for yourself, take Constance’s points to heart.
You are loved
Sorry for the corrections but I hope it will bring some peace to a very un-peaceful blog. I hope you follow what you said about this being your last comment on the subject.
God Bless you and the good work you do for him.
Truth in advertising–after all the glowing reports of the benefits of a product, potential side effects need to be mentioned. Informed consent–before surgery, patients have to be told of all the things that could possibly go wrong. That way, they have the chance to opt out before it’s too late.
As soon had the truth came out at Caesarea Philippi that Jesus was the Messiah, the Lord made clear the unpleasant implications for his followers. When Jews thought of the Messiah in the first century, they thought of God’s anointed, David, gloriously triumphing over the Philistines and just about everyone else. They thought about the peace and prosperity of the empire ruled by Solomon.
Jesus knew that the end of the story would be even more glorious than this–eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven. But he also knew that the way to such triumph was the way of the cross, and that anyone who wanted to be his disciple needed to follow him on this Via Dolorosa.
Jesus had just named him “prime minister” by calling him “the rock” and giving him the keys. So Peter felt it entirely his place to pull the king aside and advise him to take a different road. As he had been praised by the Master, now he is rebuked. Jesus goes so far as to call him “Satan.” That’s a far cry from “the Rock!”
Some have pointed to this as proof that Peter, and his papal successors, are not infallible as Catholics claim. But actually, this illustrates well what the Catholic Church teaches about the subject. For Catholic doctrine does not proclaim that the pope can never make a mistake in personal judgment. It is only when he fully engages his authority as successor of Peter speaking from Peter’s seat of authority (“ex cathedra”) that the Church guarantees him to be acting under the charism of truth given by the Father through the Spirit. When Peter publicly proclaimed “you are the Christ,” Jesus pointed out that this was not from him, but from the Father. When Peter privately said, “God forbid that you should suffer,” Jesus notes that the source of this was himself. And what’s worse, this human opinion was being used by a diabolic manipulator to tempt the Lord to choose comfort and honor over suffering and sacrifice.
Jesus will have none of it, of course. After all, He is the truth incarnate. And the truth is that glory comes only after sacrifice. And His own incomparable sacrifice will not make things easy for his disciples, but will blaze the trail of sacrifice that they too must walk. The sacrifice that he will offer will be Himself. The sacrifice they will be called to offer will be similar: “offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, your spiritual worship.” (Romans 12:1-2).
Peter couldn’t quite get it. None of them could. This is entirely understandable. During the ministry of Jesus the apostles here and there experienced a passing inspiration from the Holy Spirit, but that Creator Spirit had not yet taken up residence within them. That only came when the fire descended on them in the upper room. Before Pentecost, they ran from suffering. After Pentecost they run towards it. Peter, who denied Jesus, ultimately gave his life for him. A successor of Peter, John Paul II, preached his most eloquent sermon by continuing to serve in the twilight years of his life, a living witness of loving self-giving which is a fruit of Pentecost.
Truth in advertising. Salvation is a free gift of grace, but it will cost you everything. When faithfulness to Jesus brings ridicule rather than applause, don’t complain like Jeremiah. Jesus makes clear the cost of discipleship up front. But he also reminds us that the pearl of great price is worth anything we have to pay for it.
sections of Al Gore's speech to 12 year olds.
http://tiny.cc/Tc7pi
Has this been posted yet RE: the 2012 movie and that IHC website?...
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1441959/institute_for_human_continuity_ihc.html?cat=3
or
http://tinyurl.com/azt9dl
Sorry if it already has and I missed it.
~HM
Constance,
May the Lord give you rest and peace in the upcoming surgery of your husband. I pray that every surgeon, nurse and caregiver be alert and ready for the procedure. I pray that the Lord will guide their hands and their judgment and that He will heal your husband speedily.
Plenty of English Catholics were brutally martyred at Protestant hands -- plenty of English Protestants had been martyred during the reign of "Bloody Mary." Plenty of blood to go around -- probably the only exception was that the Protestant martyrs were written up in Foxes Book of Martyrs -- the Catholics were omitted. Thou shalt not kill was evidently one of the 10 Commandments both sides forgot. Thou shalt not bear false witness seems to be the sin of omission by the compilers of Foxes Book of Martyrs.
The author who wrote Schindler's List also wrote a book about the persecution of Irish Catholics by the British invaders. I unfortunately forget the name of the book; most of my books were destroyed in the fire of 2000 here...were so filled with noxious chemicals from the smoke of burning chemicals and solvents that I could not keep them; I did keep three, in baggies, which can only be read wearing gloves. These included a Bible from England and a hard to find book about Butte, Montana, where my Irish Catholic family lived when my mother was born.
The persecution inflicted by the British on the Irish covered centuries, and was a war of extermination. The potato famine was deliberately allowed to continue to either starve the Irish or send them out of the country. The author of Schindler's List was the descendant of a man transported for a very minor crime to Australia, forced to leave wife and family behind; the wife had only one option, to go into service to her English persecutors. This sounds as bad as the American south under slavery. The author of S.L was the descendant not of this abandoned wife (who tried very hard to join her husband on a deportation ship) but of the wife he took in Australia, knowing he would never see his Irish family again.
The English also were in high extermination mode against the Scots of the Middle Ages. We all know the story of Braveheart, but this saga went on for generations. My Scottish ancestors were disenfranchised and deprived of their ancestral lands because they were perennially loyal to the Stuart family monarchy. The English were more brutal than the Scots, although the Scots tried really hard to be violent and cruel, too. Mankind IS violent and cruel.
So anyway, I am reading here, with sympathy, of Pope Pius II, and am glad to hear his impassioned plea against Nazism, given in German before WW II broke out fully. That was a courageous act in support of Jews and others who were coming under Nazi attack.
I am still NOT a Catholic; they are having as bad a time with the New Age as the Protestants are. But I have sympathy for their efforts. After all, they were almost the only Christians there were until the Reformation. Yes, a few Baptists and other "heretics" in Southern France, but mostly everyone was Catholic, and the Church transmitted the gospels even if it was slow to translate them. You are what the Church bequeathed to you, if you are Christian.
Joyce, Susanna, and all the rest -- THANKS EVER SO MUCH FOR YOUR PRAYERS FOR MY HUSBAND'S SURGERY TOMORROW. HIS PACEMAKER IS BEING REPLACED AND WE NEED TO BE AT THE HOSPITAL AT 7:30 TOMORROW MORNING, ABOUT AN HOUR'S TRIP IN RUSH HOUR FROM OUR HOME -- WILL BE A VERY SHORT NIGHT -- THE HOSPITAL IS A RELATIVELY LONG TRIP FOR US. MY HUSBAND'S NAME IS 'BARRY'
I will be doing Mrs. Swaggart's radio program (Frances / Mrs. Jimmy) next Monday Morning, February 9th at 9 a.m. Central time, 10 a.m. (Eastern time)
I have no idea what station it is on -- I was told both internet radio and many stations.
Constance
This is a video clip called
A Prayer for Israel(Psalm 83)
There is also an article written by Walid Shoebat titled Psalm 83 and Islam - it is worth reading - I ask for your views regarding it - please.
DouginMI
http://www.acwitness.org/psalm83english.html
Anonymous 5:24 PM
My Irish Catholic ancestors who were from Cahirciveen in County Kerry survived the infamous Penal Codes of Ireland as well as the first great potato famine - as did many other Irish Catholics - due largely to the great generosity of the "Great Liberator," Daniel O'Connell who is said to have refused to expel squatters from his estate and by so doing saved thousands from starvation. Many of the squatters are said to have been able to survive on fish since O'Connell's estate was by the sea.
"His estate" is interesting. Esates of irish Catholics had been confiscated, but if an Irish Catholic had a loyal, trustworthy Protestant friend, the Protestant could take ownership of the estate "in name only" and give his Catholic friend the equivalent of "life use estate." It is my understanding that this was the case with Daniel O'Connell.
One of my ancestors was second in command of Daniel O'Connell's Catholic Association. The humorous thing about the Catholic Association is that a good many of the members were Irish Protestants who hated British rule as much as the Irish Catholics!
My ancestors were also educated in the clandestine system of education in Ireland known as the "hedge schools." Classes were often literally conducted outdoors behind the hedges while someone kept watch for the police since there was a time when the penalty for practicing, preaching or teaching the Catholic faith in Ireland was death.
This is why I have a great appreciation for the Jewish oral tradition since the Celtic oral tradition has some similarities to it - such as the mnemonic devices used to facilitate memorization.
When my Irish great-grandparents arrived in this country, they were greeted by signs in windows that read "No Irish need apply" and "No dogs or Irishmen allowed."
Back then, bigoted Protestant Know-Nothings who were also Freemasons were doing "heroic" deeds like harrassing Catholic nuns, burning down convents and swearing grim oaths to never suffer a Roman Catholic to be elected President of the United States.
I know about the "clearances" of Scotland too. Through my paternal grandfather I am a descendant of one of the largest if not THE largest clans of Scotland.
But the question is do I hate the English Protestants - or ANY Protestants?
Obviously not since I am commenting on this blog. :-)
Constance,
I have been praying for you and I will certainly be keeping you and your husband Barry in my prayers all day tomorrow.
I pray in Jesus' Name that you have a safe trip to the hospital and that your husband Barry's surgery is a success.
I plead the Blood of Christ on you both.
May The Lord bless you and keep you.
May the Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you.
May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.
Numbers 6:24-26
Constance is going to be on SonLife Radio. I listen to the show most days.
Here is the link:
http://www.francesandfriends.com/
The show is on from 8:30-11:30 (CT).
Since the ministry owns the radio station, they are not concerned about the times. I always make sure I tune in by at least 8:45. Some days they may go pass 11:30.
If you tune in and there is music or bible reading, stay tune they will eventually be on.
Be sure and listen, the show is really good. Also, there are other links. You can go to:
http://www.jsm.org/explore.cfm/sonliferadio/programminglog
Carolyn
(those of you on microeffect chatroom know me)
Only eternity and the Eternal One who is before all things knows all the questions and has all the answers. There is only One who sits on the throne with eyes able to "run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him."
(2 Chronicles 16)
There is only One in a position to ask the question:
"When the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? " (Luke 18)
After every earthly printed word has been copied and pasted, whether from Scripture itself, or
Catholic /Protestant/Other Academia sources, newspaper articles, or websites in order to either support our own or contradict another's personal , clearly deeply rooted beliefs , we are all still here. ..all human beings who will one day stand before the God we profess to know and will give an account. There is only ONE who has 20/20 vision, only ONE who is able to search the hearts and minds of men and determine motives. Only One who knows "those who are His".
There is only One who is unshakable and has promised that, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven -and this word, 'Yet once more', indicate the removing of those things that can be shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain." (Hebrews 12)
It won't shake what can't be shaken. The gates of hell will not prevail against His church. If you belong to Him, you are a member of His body i.e. the church. In Him, you live and move and have your being. Apart from Him you can do nothing.
Not only is a tree known by its fruit, but Ecclesiastes says a tree will fall in the direction it is leaning. Our efforts will never prevent it nor will our input have any affect on the outcome. Each of us lives to himself alone and each of us dies to himself alone . When we see, then we'll know. He is who He is, and what He has said will be... will be. I don't judge anything before the appointed time, although I try to use sound judgment based on my understanding, above all other sources, of what I hear His word saying to me. This doesn't mean I'm always right or my understanding always on the mark, but it is my basis for weighing and interpreting all other matters. I won't give an account for anyone else but myself, nor will you - nor will there be anyone other than Jesus who will represent my case before the Father.
What remains and what will not remain, as far as this earth, we who inhabit this planet, and the extent to which we judge the "rightness" or "wrongness" of all of our self determined credibility is a mute point. The proof will only be "proved" after it passes through the fire. What still remains today, is not what will remain after the consuming fire to come. That which will be tested to determine its purity includes personal faith, as well as all earthly principalities, powers, rulers and institutions. If something is truly ordained by God , it requires no defense by man - it will stand no matter how many "anti" arguments are presented against it. Prophecies will fail, tongues shall cease, knowledge (what man knows and thinks) shall vanish.
"For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. "
Our Lord Jesus really IS going to return, and He is not coming peacefully or quietly the second time.
He has watched and listened in the interim, thankfully with more patience than any of us deserve. He is coming in glory and when He begins to speak, there won't be a human being even able to open their mouths. His very presence, will cause all the earth to keep silent before Him.
Constance,
You and Barry are in our prayers
-Rudi
Constance,
We'll continue to keep you and Barry in our prayers.
Joyce
Rudi,
Amen,
Doug,
As for the video..I am familiar a little bit with Walid Shoebat and certainly appreciate his stand on Israel. There are other former Muslims who have come to know Yeshua and stand with Israel, and actually understand how much Islam hates Israel.
A Latin Vulgate version ( if I'm not mistaken) of Psalm 83 was discovered in Ireland, speaking of Ireland, during the Israel/Lebanon war several years ago, and many took it as a prophetic sign because of the timing..
Several comments about Walid.. He believes that Islam is the beast system, and believes that the head thing they wear with the "there is not God but Allah...and Mohamed ..." is the mark of beast.. He believes that Islam will try to put the whole world under Islam ( this is the idea behind the word jihad).
Psalm 83 is undoubtedly prophetic and God will judge the enemies of Israel, even though sometimes Israel is chastised through its enemies. That's the great mystery. If Israel was walking in perfect obedience to God ( which they can't without Yeshua) they would have victory over their enemies. Torah says this.. Having said that the prophets talk about many judgements that will come upon the nations that attack Israel in the Last Days..
The Lord is doing miraculous things in our day touching people from the Muslim nations with the gospel. Interestingly when He does, some of these like Walid become strong advocates of Israel and expose Islam, because they know if from the inside.
I would want to separate between the spirit of Islam which is a spirit of antimessiah ( not saying the antimessiah will be a Muslim) and Muslim people, who like others need to come to a saving knowledge of Yeshua.
One of the things that I've been trying to share on the blog, directly or indirectly is the plan of God to make a people from all the nations. Israel was scattered in all the nations on the earth, and the Bible says that the boundaries of the nations are in accordance with the number of the sons of Israel. Satan has done a great job over the centuries of turning the nations against Israel at various times.. If you notice, all of the empires of Daniel 2 are empires that were enemies of Israel. This pattern will be true too, in the last empire, the empire of antimessiah.
I personally don't believe that empire will be exclusively Muslim, like Walid does, but I do think Isalm will be a strong component in creating that last kingdom and the alliances with those nations that surround Israel will be part of the attempt to destroy Israel in the Last Days and God will absolutely judge those nations.. Sorry, long answer to a short question.
One of the great sins of history that started after the fall with Cain and Abel is that of jealousy. We see the pattern repeated with Ishmael and Isaac, with Jacob and Esau, Joseph and his brothers, etc..God always defies our expectations and choses the younger over the firstborn. He does it over and over, so He's teaching us something through these repetitive patterns in His Word.
It is not automatic that if someone is a descendant of Ishmael and Esau that they have to be jealous and envious.. If they understood the plan of God in the first place, i.e. that the election of Isaac was in order to bring forth Yeshua, and that they can attach to Yeshua too, maybe the jealousy goes away because they can then see themselves coming into the covenant. ( Ephesians 2) but they can only come in through Yeshua, there is no back door.
The problem today is the Muslims want an inheritance and they are trying to usurp it by claiming that's what their holy book says..but we know that after Yeshua's disciples there are no more Scripture, so we can imagine who the author of their book is.. and what he has come to do.. to rob and steal and destroy.. None of our politically correct politicians and sadly now, even many leaders who claim to believe in the Bible get this.. I want to scream and say which pages would you like to rip out of the Bible.!!
We must understand the prophecies today regarding Israel or we risk to align ourselves with the agenda of the antimessiah, and if you think I'm exaggerating... I'm not. I see Christian leaders, evangelicals, doing this all the time and it blows me away..
God is bringing a remnant out of all those nations that surround Israel and I believe that the highway spoken of in Isaiah 19, but many who fight Israel ( because ultimately they are fighting God) will be destroyed:
Is. 19:24-25 In that day Israel will be the third party with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing in the midst of the earth, whom the LORD of hosts has blessed, saying, “Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance.”
Sorry for the long answer, but this is very much a subject we should be focusing on in our present day and I think an important reason to understand the plan of God for "all Israel" Judah, Ephraim, and all who will attach themselves.. It's not by accident in the book of Rev that 144000, are the first time that we see the 12 tribes named once more, by name ( which we don't have in our current day).
Prophetically, God will restore Israel and the nations will then understand that He is the God of Israel when He shakes everything than can be shaken.
These are very important prophecies that we need to understand today, or we might do what those Pastors who signed the letter for a 2 State solution did.. and forget that God doesn't change..
I want to be clear in saying, I am not against the Palestinian people, but they either need to attach themselves to Israel in Yeshua or they will end up fighting God.. When I say Israel I don't mean the secular Israeli govt. but we should see the formation of the State of Israel as the beginning fulfillment of Ezekiel 37.
This weeks Torah portion is Israel leaving Egypt and they take Joseph's bones with them.... Joseph's bones represent the Whole House of Israel that we see in Ezekiel 37.. This is a huge prophetic theme that runs through all of Scripture, the Restoration of all Israel..
The big error of people today, is to think that somehow God changed His mind about His promises to Israel.. The other big mistake is that we don't realize how big Israel really is.. He said He would make Israel more numerous than the sands of the sea. . I think we will all be surprised when we see how God has been working all these centuries.. He will truly get all the glory, which He is due..
Hos. 1:10-11 1Yet the number of the sons of Israel
Will be like the asand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered;
And bin the place
Where it is said to them,
“You are cnot My people,”
It will be said to them,
“You are the dsons of the living God.” And the asons of Judah and the sons of Israel will be bgathered together,
And they will appoint for themselves cone leader,
And they will go up from the land,
For great will be the day of Jezreel.
Yes, God will destroy the enemies of Israel, but it will only be because they have rejected Him and His Word.. Yeshua.
Joyce
Former Hamas leader's son accepts Yeshua:
http://tinyurl.com/aqnd3p
Only the Lord can do this!
Joyce
One more:
http://tinyurl.com/7mf2ek
Joyce
Holly Pivic's site had this interesting article...possibly confirming what US's role in the "peace negotiations" might be...Not very encouraging, but God's in control.
Israeli elections are in a week and Bibi is promising to not divide Jerusalem, threatening Iran, etc. The political realities may be some what different than his promises.. It looks like he will win... but then instead of dividing Jerusalem will it become the capital of the 3 Abrahamic religions?
Safe to say, regardless of who wins the pressure will be on Israel to negotiate.. Hillary is going to China, but she is being summoned to the Middle East.. Probably no point in rushing there until the new Prime Minister has been selected...If she follows her husband's leading, she will try to persuade Israel to give away a lot of Land, and the $50,000 question is what will the US do now, if Israel doesn't comply..?
http://tinyurl.com/anmckd
Speaking of the Shoah, of Muslims and Nazi hunters, the despicable doctor who performed experiments on Jews without anesthesia and committed the most horrendous acts was found in Cairo.. He had converted to Islam...interestingly enough:
http://tinyurl.com/benped
and while the Pope is now insisting that Williamson renounce his lies about the Shoah, he may be a day late and a dollar short. I don't think someone that has been so explicit about what he thinks of the Shoah, can just turn around and renounce it and be taken as credible. The man has spoken his mind clearly and said what he really believes.. but I guess the pope has tried to undo some of the damage to his own reputation..
http://tinyurl.com/ahuvdv
If Williamson says something publicly, it would be difficult to believe at this point.
Joyce
....but then again, this could be part of the Hegelican dialectic.. When the pope made his Regensburg remark about Islam that sparked riots all over the Muslim world, the Vatican quickly turned it around and entered into the interfaith dialogue with Muslims..and the wounds were quickly healed, and now we have a Common Word..
Do you see the process? Out of chaos comes order.. Religious hatred and riots, ecumenic compromise...We could have a theme developing here. Keep your eyes on this...
Jews and Bible believers should be able to see right through this recent diplomatic move, but yet some are accepting it and saying the pope has made things right..
Will this faux pas give the pope an entry to open up a dialogue with the Jews.?? If my suspicions about Jerusalem being the capital of the 3 Abrahamic religions is true this will be another stepping-stone to creating a Jerusalem of the "Abrahamic faiths" with perhaps Muslims, Jews and Christians worshipping together...i.e. the apostasy. ( I mean Jews, Christians and Muslims who are not fundamental about their faith..all .the fundamentalists will get in the way. Thus perhaps the plan of Alice Bailey inspired by Satan plays out this way...???? Just some food for thought..
It would be very, very difficult in the peace negotiations to split Jerusalem and nearly impossible for any of the representatives of the 3 religions to accept this.. As Heinrich Eliyahu Benedikt pointed out. He may be a deceiver but he says some things that are actually true, which is the foundation of any good lie.
Let's see what's going on in the news.. Pope rebukes Shoah denier and Nazi doctor is discovered dead after many years of hiding in Egypt...coincidental? Perhaps.. ?
Joyce
Oldmanoftheski’s post; interesting how the androgynous West harps on the “ONE WORLD” stuff while China builds its military, and Russia, Iran?
Great Transitions Initiative and Tellus Institute director Paul Raskin, was a major contributor to the Earth Charter. Building on the work of Donald Keys, Raskin and his cronies claim that NOW is the time to “Choose our world”. They say the choice is a rather simple one, either we descend into chaos and barbarism resulting in a “fortress civilization”, or we unite into a “planetary civilization”.
"We will accelerate the building of our nuclear and conventional combat strength," said Jing Zhiyuan
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Chinese_military_chief_vows_nuclear_conventional_build-up_999.html
Rudi, your essay is beautiful and sums up personal responsibility, accountability perfectly.
Joyce, what is evident is your love God’s Word, and you need your own blog, which I would love to see.
Setterman said:
"Joyce, what is evident is your love God’s Word, and you need your own blog, which I would love to see."
Splendid idea, Joyce! :-)
Silvia
Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic Catholic
Bashing
Wow wasn’t that fascinating and informative post I just did, everyone will think that I am soooo smart....and it is Very relevant in regard to Constance topics….NOT
Please I am on my knee begging stop this before you drive me insane! Be respectful, you have been asked, nicely, rudely and everything in-between, but you are so self focused you can not even consider what you are doing to everyone else. You are driving us nuts!
Constance if you want people coming here I beg you to have a private conversation with this person.
Rudi,
Regarding your fine comment, Setterman said:
Rudi, your essay is beautiful and sums up personal responsibility, accountability perfectly.
I couldn't have said it better and I couldn't agree more!
I have an idea. Let's ALL move to a new blog and just not leave Joyce a "forwarding address."
LOL
Setterman, Silvia,
After the other remarks, not sure whether to take yours as a compliment or a suggestion....Can't do that though for reasons I won't go into here.. You are right though Setternman. I do love the word of God.. I'm working on something right now ( not to put here) and every time you open it up, it's just a treasure.. amazing..
Joyce
A compliment ofcourse, Joyce. Would be great if there's blog about new age in full light of scripture. I'd do it myself but i've had it with dotconnecting and sleuthing so...
Silvia
From www.fulfilledprophecy.com
Google to offer "People Tracking Technology"
Seems no ones concerned about the SPIDER!!!!!
Pass this on. It's time to stop making excuses for doing nothing except preaching to others that one's religion is the best in the whole wide world.
Christians Use Prophecy To Excuse Laziness
By Chuck Baldwin
February 3, 2009
This column is archived at
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20090203.html
In response to my two previous columns regarding the current development of
a devilish New World Order, many professing Christians wrote me with
comments to the effect that we should not be concerned about whatever global
tyranny may be developing, because "it's all a part of God's plan," or
"Jesus is coming soon," and similar statements. I, too, believe in the
imminent return of Jesus Christ to earth. But, then again, so did Christians
from every generation over the last two millennia. In fact, the Apostle Paul
was looking for the return of Christ while he lived (Philippians 3:20). But
does anticipation of Christ's Second Coming excuse personal neglect,
indifference, and downright laziness? Of course not.
Had pastors and Christians of colonial America believed and acted as most
Christians believe and act today, this country would still be a Crown colony
and we would never have known the freedoms and liberties that our forebears
bequeathed to us. Christians of that era, however, believed that it was
their duty and obligation to fight for right and do everything within their
power to resist tyranny. They also believed that God would honor and bless
their efforts, which He certainly did!
It is extremely difficult for me to reconcile the apathy and slave-like
mentality that seems to permeate modern Christendom (in America) with both
our own heritage and the very Word of God. For example, the Apostle Paul is
very clear when he writes that a Christian must never "do evil, that good
may come" (Romans 3:8). Yet, that is exactly what many, if not most,
Christians are doing today.
When confronted with an obvious evil (a burgeoning tyrannical New World
Order, not to mention a number of lesser evils), modern Christians will
shrug and glibly say, "It's God's will; we must not oppose it," or words to
that effect. This attitude says, "I will tolerate or even condone evil in
order to hasten Christ's return."
In the first place, no one knows when Christ will return, no matter how many
books or tapes they have produced to say they do. In Acts chapter 1, Jesus
was asked by His disciples if He would, at that time, set up His kingdom.
The first words out of His mouth were, "It is not for you to know." Oh, we
can speculate, surmise, and make educated guesses, but that's the best we
can do. It's time we were honest enough to admit it: only God knows when
Christ will return. In fact, Jesus said, "But of that day and hour knoweth
no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matthew 24:36).
In the meantime, millions of Christians across America are trying to play
God. They talk as if they know when Christ will come. It's actually worse
than that. They have the attitude that they have no personal responsibility
to defend freedom and resist despotism. They seem to look at God as some
kind of glorified fireman, who is obligated to rush in at the last minute to
rescue them from a burning fire--a fire that they helped ignite, or at
least, refused to put out themselves when they had the opportunity to do so.
It's the old, "God would not let that happen in America" syndrome.
How arrogant can we be? Ask believers from despotic regimes around the world
what they think about God letting tribulation come, and they will quickly
tell you, "We are already in tribulation." Are Christians in the United
States really that arrogant as to believe that God loves them more than He
loves believers in other countries? If not, can we not see that if believers
around the world have suffered (and still suffer) the heavy hand of tyranny
and oppression, it is certainly possible for tyranny and oppression to come
to our land? The fact is, the only reason that Christians in America have
not (for the most part) suffered tyranny and oppression is because of the
hard work and sacrifice of our forefathers. We are simply enjoying the fruit
of their labor.
In the second place, how do we know what God would do, if we only had the
backbone to do our duty? How do we know that God would not give America "a
new birth of freedom" for our children and grandchildren, if we only had the
courage and fortitude to oppose the evil being thrust upon us by these
would-be tyrants? America is only the "land of the free," because it was the
"home of the brave." Take away the latter and we lose the former. And that
is exactly what is currently happening.
In the third place, Christians have a moral imperative to resist evil, even
if their efforts are fruitless. We are not responsible for outcome, only
effort. Believers throughout history acted on principle, leaving the results
with God. (Read Hebrews chapter 11.) Some were delivered; some were not.
That did not matter. What mattered was doing one's duty. We Christians are
to give our bodies as "a living sacrifice" (Romans 12:1). It is God's
prerogative to use our sacrifice as He sees fit. Therefore, there is no such
thing as a "losing effort," when it comes to doing right. Doing right
(resisting evil) is its own reward. The three Hebrew children were not
commended because God delivered them from the burning fiery furnace; they
were commended because they were willing to go into the burning fiery
furnace. So must we be.
I believe the real reason why so many professing Christians are so apathetic
and indifferent to what is happening has nothing to do with the teachings of
Scripture, Bible doctrine, eschatology, or anything of the like. It has
everything to do with old-fashioned laziness. Today's average Christian just
flat does not want to be bothered. He has a comfortable house, an easy
chair, television, and a set of golf clubs in the closet. He takes two or
three weeks' vacation every year, goes to church on Sunday (a church that
does not intrude on his comfort zone, of course), pays taxes, and votes for
his favorite "pro-life" Republican candidate every two years, and assumes
that he is a "good" Christian and "patriotic" American. He is neither!
A real Christian patriot would never allow his country to be taken over by a
gaggle of elitist goons bent on stealing his liberties--including his
religious liberties--without doing everything in his power to prevent it. A
real Christian patriot is active, alert, engaged, zealous, and committed to
preserving liberty.
What if Jesus doesn't come for another 100 years? Another 200 years? What
are we going to say to our grandchildren when they ask us what we were doing
when our freedoms and liberties were being stolen? What will we say to our
Christian forebears when we meet them in eternity? They sacrificed
everything so that we could live in peace and freedom. What will we say to
them? What will we say to God, who handed this land of liberty to us on a
silver (albeit blood-soaked) platter?
Tell me again that "there is nothing we can do about it," or "it's God's
will," or "Jesus is coming soon." Better yet, tell it again to the suffering
Christians around the world; tell it again to our Christian forebears; tell
it again to your children and grandchildren who are going to inherit a land
of tyranny and oppression, all because you were too lazy to resist.
I know unbelievers who have more character and determination about
preserving liberty than many who call themselves Christians. And I have a
ton more respect for them, too. Our Lord told us, "For unto whomsoever much
is given, of him shall be much required" (Luke 12:48). Yes, Christians in
America have been given the best of both worlds, and many do not even
appreciate it enough to see to it that their own children--their own flesh
and blood--will live to enjoy the same blessings. They are pathetic!
So, the next time you hear some piety-draped Christian talking about how he
won't engage the enemy and fight for liberty, because of prophecy, or some
other spiritually-sounding platitude, just remember, it has nothing to do
with prophecy, or anything of the sort: it has everything to do with
old-fashioned laziness. My feeling toward him is the same as that of Sam
Adams (a fellow Christian) toward the Tories of old: "If ye love wealth
better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest
for freedom--go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly
upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!" Amen!
Looking over Baldwin's website I found many interesting pieces of information. Earlier it was posted that Timothy Geithner's father supervised Obama's mother. It was probably where the idea to groom Obama and put him in the stable of potential candidates first appeared. It turns out that Geitner is associated with Henry Kissinger. Read the entire article here.
http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/ckincaid/2009/ck_01151.shtml
From the article:
"If you examine the nature of the "Group of Thirty," (web site) an affiliation which appears at the bottom of his biography, right after his Council on Foreign Relations membership, you will quickly learn that the President of the New York Federal Reserve Bank is an associate of the governor of the Chinese central bank (web site) through this mysterious organization of bankers and other top current and former officials from various countries. You will notice that other Obama nominees and associates are members, including Paul Volcker and Lawrence Summers."
http://www.muckety.com/Timothy-F-Geithner/2158.muckety
There's enough money there to fund many New Age organizations, turning the general population into hordes of people happy with bread and circuses.
Susanna,
Thanks for the valuable ccomment on the extreme persecution of Catholics especially in Ireland, Scotland and England.
This was in deed a regretable omission from the Foxes' Book of Martyrs!
I especially despise the Catholic bashing on this board which has sometimes taken a mean tone, more so from Silvia to my recent observation than Joyce.
Constance
Susanna,
Thanks for the valuable ccomment on the extreme persecution of Catholics especially in Ireland, Scotland and England.
This was in deed a regretable omission from the Foxes' Book of Martyrs!
I especially despise the Catholic bashing on this board which has sometimes taken a mean tone, more so from Silvia to my recent observation than Joyce.
Constance
Constance,
Only love matters! Sound doctrine just divides… it’s love that matters!
If sound doctrine didn’t matter, then why would God so painstakingly lay down His precepts through His inspired Word over and over again? Wouldn’t it just be simple to let everyone do what they wanted to do according to their own “moral center”, thereby ensuring that EVERYBODY was right?
Thank God through Jesus Christ that His Word clearly dileneates His idea of true love (my emphasis in bold):
1 John 3:18-20 (New American Standard Bible)
18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.
http://tinyurl.com/d2qabm
Silvia
Constance & Silvia,
I happen to be with Silvia on the fact that dividing the Scriptures correctly is very important. We need to speak truth "in love" and I guess that's the qualifier.
I'm not sure I'm always as loving as I could be when I share. I try, but it's not always easy. Sometimes we get into discussions that are near and dear to our hearts and it's hard to be detached. Sometimes we don't take time to reread our posts before we hit the send button..
We should not avoid speaking truth because, I believe that speaking truth is the most loving thing..
Yeshua could be pretty direct in His comments, and so was Paul, so I wouldn't necessarily say that even being direct is not loving.
All I'm going to say is it's not always easy on this blog because already we are speaking on very controversial subjects, and then we come with our upbringing and our training and our culture, and then it's a blog so we right comments very quickly not always giving the same time and thought as we might to something we'd put in a more permanent format.
There is also a spiritual battle that we should never lose sight of, because Satan comes to rob, steal and destroy..so he can take our very well intentioned words and make them look horrible to someone else, when we think what we've said is perfectly reasonable.
I think most of the perceived hurts here are not deliberate. Some people go out of their way to say things to "get even" which is kind of immature and not especially productive for producing any kind of intelligent conversation.
All that to say, we need to be careful with our words, but I don't think anyone should stop speaking truth.. We should try to keep the qualifier at the end "in love" remember that the idea is to build people up.
There will always be those who are not happy with what we say.. I'm sure Constance knows that as well as anyone, having been the subject of criticism for
a number of years, so I don't think controversy alone is a good enough reason to stop speaking out. If we let controversy prevent us from talking we would not mention the New Age movement which is very controversial. We all need to be careful about the way we do it so that our words will hopefully have their desired effect, which presumably is not to destroy others but to build them up.
Personally, I'm convinced by Scripture that God wants us to be in unity, but the phony unity some of the world leaders are promoting, but unity that is based on truth, on Yeshua and on His Word..
I've been criticized here for not sticking to the "New Age" but personally, I would not know how to talk about the New Age if it wasn't with the light of Scripture which leads us in all truth.. Why would the New Age seem wrong to me? I'd probably join them if I didn't know the truth.
Some would like that the topics stay more news oriented and less Scripturally based, but then what is the basis for our decision that we are looking at something that is "New Age". If Scripture is not our guide, I don't know how else we could evaluate it.
When I read Alice Bailey, one thing that hit me immediately was that she used Scripture, but the way she used it was so twisted, and even the devil knows the Scriptures, but we must handle them in a way that is consistent with good methods of interpretation otherwise we can even justify the New Age based on the Scriptures.
This is sadly what is happening today in many churches. Scripture has been so watered down that people think doing yoga and walking labyrinths is okay. There are other problems but those are some of the easy ones to pick on, so Scripture is everything, but no of course we shouldn't bash people.. None of us.
We should not fall into the post-modern lie that we cannot know anything with certainty and decontruct
Biblical truth which is what the Emergents have done.. That's a trap.. God left us His Word, so that we can know many things with certainty.
I like this verse, and may not always put into practice perfectly:
Eph. 4:29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.
Easier to quote sometimes than to do, but we're all in process and need to be patient with one another..
Joyce
Joyce,
It's very telling that you keep referring to "WE" in your last post. Speak for yourself. "WE" can speak for ourselves. "WE" happen to disagree with most of what you write.
New Age is a danger to everyone, no matter their religion or the lack of it, and that includes New Agers. It is a totalitarian system that is a danger to those bringing it about and to those affected by it. Religion as a value can be used as a contrast to it, but it is not the sole reason for opposing it.
Governments should not be theocratic, no matter what the primary religion. Power corrupts and religious power corrupts just as easily. There needs to be a contrast between the values of a government and the values of religion so that neither controls the populace. One of the major problems being brought about by the New Age movement is that it is attempting to control both at the same time.
Frankly I would not want to live under a religion run by the Joyces of the world. All who call themselves Christian are not perfect Christians, and there is no way to breed a race of "perfect Christians" any more than there is a way to breed an Aryan race.
In response to Terry. Mr. Fife could have written her off as a drunk Communist America hater and thought nothing more of it. You also seem to assume he even paid attention to the Democratic convention in 2004 when Obama spoke. If, by cursory investigation, you mean a Google search; that wasn't quite so easy back then. I believe the few search engines there were might not have been that helpful. There's also the chance he told people when he came back from Russia, but they blew him off so he just dropped it. Or maybe even the media was ignoring him and not reporting on this. We don't know.
In that light, I think his story shouldn't be discredited based on the circumstance of time of when we first heard it.
His story indicates that Russia knew of him and liked him. My question is, did Russia help him succeed here? If they did and the media blew this story open, it could potentially force the US into a strange position with Russia. With the POTUS being a manchurian candidate of sorts, what sort of world conflict would that create?
Anyone find it curious the only nation that didn't call to congradulate Obama (of those that would) was Russia? I haven't heard if Medvedev or Putin finally did, but right after the election that was the report.
Sean
I want to paste an excerpt from the not so anonymous post that has a familiar ring to it:
"New Age is a danger to everyone, no matter their religion or the lack of it, and that includes New Agers. It is a totalitarian system that is a danger to those bringing it about and to those affected by it. Religion as a value can be used as a contrast to it, but it is not the sole reason for opposing it. "
What I would ask you anonymous poster is what the heck difference does it make if someone is saved from the New Age but they lose their soul?
....or in the very wise words of our great rabbi and Messiah Yeshua:
Mark 8:36 “For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul?
and HE finishes by saying:
Mark 8:37-38 “For what will a man give in exchange for his soul?“For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”
This seems to me, to be the more important...but maybe I'm missing something..
I prefer to say faith because I don't like religion..so faith might not be the only reason for opposing it, but it might be the only reason that really matters..
When Israel went against the Canaanites, it wasn't based on principals of democracy or some other ideological reasons.. It was because baal worship was an abomination to God and God told them to destroy those who were polluting the land. Now today, I'm not suggesting we go out a fight military battles against the New Agers, but that we fight with the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God..
2Cor. 10:3-5 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but 1divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
Shabbat shalom,
Joyce
p.s. anonymous poster, whether you like it or not some day we will live under a theocracy, when Yeshua comes back to reign and the Torah will go our from Zion according to the Prophet Isaiah...so this idea that theocracy is bad is not altogether true...
It would never be a world under "Joyce's system" because I have no aspirations to run any system, only to be obedient to God..Ultimately, He will be the one running things and in the Bible this is called the Covenant of Shalom...( shalom being peace or wholeness) and Torah will be put on people's hearts...
The problem with trying to do anything by our efforts is that we are incapable..It is only when we humble ourselves before a Holy God that He gives us the wisdom and power to do what is right.. but then we are not the ones in power, He is.
Yeshua modeled this perfectly on planet earth, and He never attempted to interfere with any earthly governments or take over the Roman Empire... He humbled Himself to death on a cross,:
Phil. 2:6-11 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (YHVH), to the glory of God the Father.
Joyce
Joyce,
Amen.
Silvia
Joyce, somebody wind you up again?
This is classic Dorothy...
Joyce, somebody wind you up again?
Hey, Dorothy come out of hiding...we all know you're still here... :o)
Shabbat shalom...
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