Wednesday, August 27, 2014



WASHINGTON POST article evening of August 27, 2014

From the Washington Post article for which I just received a Google News Alert, we read:

“Instead of relying only on medication, we envision a closed-loop system that would work in concept like a tiny, intelligent pacemaker,” said Doug Weber, the program’s MANAGER. “It would continually assess conditions and provide stimulus patterns tailored to help maintain healthy organ function, helping patients get healthy and stay healthy using their body’s own systems.”Obama did not reference the new program directly in his speech Tuesday at the American Legion national convention in Charlotte, N.C.  In a joint fact sheet released by the Pentagon and the Department of Veterans Affairs, however, the agencies said DARPA will start a new $78.9 million, five-year research program “to develop new, minimally invasive neurotechnologies that will increase the ability of the body and brain to induce healing.” It’s part of the Obama administration’s larger “BRAIN Initiative,” which involves the National Institutes of HEALTH, DARPA, the National Science Foundation and the Food and Drug Administration, among other organizations.Officials say the BRAIN Initiative — which stands for Brain Research through Advancing Innovative Neurotechnologies — includes a related DARPA effort to build new brain chips that will be able to predict moods to help TREAT post-traumatic stress. It’s known as the SUBNETS program, short for Systems-Based Neurotechnology for EMERGING Therapies. Teams at both the University of California, San Francisco, and Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston are involved.The major hurdle for the ElectRX program may be shrinking the technology needed so that it can be used in the body. IMPLANTABLE devices already are in use to fight inflammatory diseases and other health problems, but most are about the size of a deck of cards, requiring surgical implantation that can result in side effects, DARPA officials said. They want “ultraminiaturized devices” that would could be inserted through needle injection or other less invasive means.
On the up side, however, in the same set of evening headlines, I see that Louisiana Governor Jindal has sued over the Common Core Standards.

Stay alert and stay tuned!


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Constance Cumbey said...

The Governor Jindal anti-Common Core litigation is important. Here is a tinyurl link to the full story:


Susanna said...

Here is more on "ElectRx" right from the DARPA ( Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency )site itself.

President Obama Highlights New DARPA Program Aimed at Developing Novel Therapies Customized to Individual Patients

August 26, 2014

ElectRx aims to explore neuromodulation of organ functions to help the human body heal itself


The thing I find a tad unnerving is that some of the scientists involved with DARPA projects are also involved with the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS). For example, Dean Radin, PhD, is Chief Scientist at IONS and Adjunct Faculty in the Department of Psychology at Sonoma State University.

Susanna said...

Remember Max Planck Florida Institute for Neuroscience in Jupiter? The first U.S. institute established by the Max Planck Society? It has ben publicly applauding President Obama's Brain Initiative.

Obama's BRAIN Project Syncs With MPFI's Mission -

Optics Community Hails Obama’s Brain Mapping Initiative

By Melinda Rose, Senior Editor

WASHINGTON, April 4, 2013

Obama $100 Million Plan to Map Brain Starting in 2014

Now I am not saying that the legitimate science of Brain Mapping with a view to understanding and treating neurological and other illnesses is necessarily something bad. But unfortunately, we have seen how often new technology has tended morally to go south vis a vis the way in which it actually winds up being used.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

seems to me that any such implanted system has two potential bad outcomes in some cases.

that it might malfunction, and instead of simple failure, nonaction, it would cause disease or worsen it, and,

that it could be hacked, or have a backdoor built in and an alternate program built in that could then be activated (or by hacking created) which would cause disease or termination.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

The Path to Hell is Paved with the Skulls of Bishops: 8 Quotes and Sources
by HHAMBROSE on Oct 17, 2012 • 4:00 am 12 Comments
Listers, priests and bishops having been erring as long as humans have occupied those offices. However, the quotes that most strongly articulate this truth are shrouded in ambiguity regarding their primary sources. SPL has complied the most common germane quotes shared on Catholic blogs and given a citation for each one – often clarifying a misquote or giving context for an attributed quote. Please feel free to add any other quotes that complement this list or help articulate the sources.

“The road to Hell is paved with the bones of priests and monks, and the skulls of bishops are the lamp posts that light the path.”
- or -

“The road to hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts.”
St. John Chrysostom attributed.1

“I do not think there are many among Bishops that will be saved, but many more that perish.”
St. John Chrysostom, Extract from St. John Chrysostom, Homily III on Acts 1:12.2

“The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.”
St. Athanasius, Council of Nicaea, AD 325 attributed.3

“The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.”
Saint John Eudes, attributed.4

“It must be observed, however, that if the faith were endangered, a subject ought to rebuke his prelate even publicly.”
St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II, II, q. 33, a. 45

“Augustine says in his Rule: ‘Show mercy not only to yourselves, but also to him who, being in the higher position among you, is therefore in greater danger.’ But fraternal correction is a work of mercy. Therefore even prelates ought to be corrected.”
St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II, II, q. 33, a. 4, Sed Contra.

“It is better that scandals arise than the truth be suppressed.”
Pope St. Gregory the Great 6

“But, when necessity compels, not those only who are invested with power of rule are bound to safeguard the integrity of faith, but, as St. Thomas maintains: ‘Each one is under obligation to show forth his faith, either to instruct and encourage others of the faithful, or to repel the attacks of unbelievers.’”
Pope Leo XIII7

Chrysostom Quote: Ole “Golden-mouth” is the primary recipient of the attributed quote. The origin of the actual quote is obscure, but several theories abound. The most interesting are that the flourishing rhetoric of St. Chrysostom and Dantean imagery came together in the Middle Ages or that the quote was actually a misrepresentation of Chrysostom’s words from the protestant leader John Wesley. SOURCE [↩]
Chrysostom 2nd Quote: Homily III on Acts 1:12 [↩]
Athanasius Quote: Attributing the quote to Athanasius is a natural connection given the fact the man fought against the heresy of Arianism – a heresy that is estimated to have swallowed almost 80% of the Catholic bishops. [↩]
Eudes Quote: It is believed that St. Eudes is referencing the quote in the belief it was said by St. Athanasius [↩]
Aquinas Quote: The quote is also often cited as,”When there is an imminent danger for the Faith, Prelates must be questioned, even publicly, by their subjects.” The entire fourth article of the cited question addresses the issue of “Whether a man is bound to correct his prelate?” [↩]
Gregory Quote: While prolifically quoted amongst blogs and Catholic debates, a source for this quote is elusive. If any listers can furnish a source and a citation, SPL would appreciate it. [↩]
Pope Leo Quote: The quote is taken from SAPIENTIAE CHRISTIANAE and is often quoted on Catholic blogs as: “when circumstances make it necessary, it is not prelates alone who have to watch over the integrity of the faith.” [↩]

Constance Cumbey said...

Many, many thanks, Susanna for your very critical inputs on this one. IONS also takes it back to the Fellowship Foundation: Barbara Marx Hubbard's 1988 Seattle boast that "now all the resonating core groups with outwardly different purposes are merging and blending and coming together to do THE ONE WORK.


Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

regarding the above quotes about bishops and priests, I should have added, the same can be said for protestant clergy, James warns us that teachers are judged more harshly.

And I think nothing edifying can be said anymore on the RC subject. I won't be posting regarding this again. I recommend research on the link I posted that I excerpted from, showing how RC misquotes or cuts out critical parts of ancient writings to support papal supremacy, on the previous comments section.

Repeat, I for one will not post any more on this.

Those who are driven by a certainty that the pope is the antichrist and RC the whore of babylon, should READ REVELATION. The pope has never demanded people worship him and receive a mark, without which all economic transactions would have to be conducted on the black market (illegally, no legal buying and selling without the mark) neither has he had the capability to do this.

There are other problems with this ascription of RC to beast of Revelation etc.

Whatever is wrong with RC this is not one of them. And the presence of demonic influence in it, can be paralleled quite well, especially now with New Age infiltration in evangelicalism, in the protestant scene.

The test of antichrist is denial that Jesus IS THE Christ, and/or that Jesus IS come in the flesh, in other words, that He is fully human as well as fully divine, and He rose physically from the dead never to die again, so IS STILL IN THE FLESH.

Who denies these is of the spirit of antichrist. RC does not deny these.

That is all I have to say on this anymore here.

Constance Cumbey said...



Why the discussion on this post on bishops? Catholic or Orthodox?


Constance Cumbey said...


I noticed on the Optics Community site that the Jonas Salk Institute was also on board. We all owe Salk a debt of gratitude for the polio vaccine discoveries, BUT, Salk was a New Ager's New Ager, very close indeed to Barbara Marx Hubbard.


Constance Cumbey said...


Not to mention that it -- the DARPA project appears to very closely parallel the clear warnings of Revelation 13 and some of those pushing the project are clearly pushing the Earth Worship/Goddess Gaia hypothesis -- a clearly possible fulfillment of the warnings of Revelation 14. In short, SOULS COULD BE AT STAKE!!!!


Constance Cumbey said...


Humorously, vis a vis DEAN RADIN, I see he was born on FEBRUARY 29TH, my birthday. He talks about this 13th birthday which evidently was his last and says that by 2036 he will be old enough to buy a beer. Let's see, that would make him 16 years younger than Yours Truly who has only celebrated 17 birthdays in her young life. LOL


Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Constance, SPL is St. Peter's List some RC blog, I stumbled on this on facebook, don't know anything about the rest of the site.

yes, if the mark is high tech, DARPA's latest little gem could be a forerunner. But while souls could be at stake, most people won't see it that way. I think a lot of American Christians are nominal Christians, or at least extremely ignorant.

Finding non theological reasons to fight this is important, because you have to target a population of listeners, incl. legislators, who will not consider The Bible a relevant thing, and will knee jerk related mark of beast is RFID chip to conspiracy theorists and kooks and stop listening before you have started.

think the scene in court and in persuading people in conferences, all kinds of bullshit or not really that cared about arguments, if it will fly to get what you want.

now apply it in fighting this.

Anonymous said...

Been watching this carefully. DARPA is also involved in trying to make super soldiers.

Not only do we eat franken-food but we will have frankenstein-like soldiers who are mind controlled with chips to serve the Beast.

I think when Jesus said it would be like the days of Noah, he meant that there would be manipulation of the DNA. When the fallen angels intermarried with humans, they were trying to play with humans and prevent the promised coming of the seed that would crush the serpent's head.

Now, Satan just wants men to worship him directly. If he controls their minds through demonic technology he will succeed. He couldn't stop Jesus from coming to redeem mankind, so he will try to usurp Jesus' authority in another manner. He'll try to steal all the glory and honor for himself.


Constance Cumbey said...

Here are other google links on the subject:

2014/08/26 President Obama Highlights New DARPA ...
1 day ago - Initiated in support of the President's brain initiative, ElectRx (pronounced ... within DARPA that support President Obama's brain initiative.
Obama Administration Proposes Doubling Support for The ...
White House
On April 2, 2013, President Obama launched the Brain Research though Advancing ... Agency (DARPA), the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the National ...
BRAIN Initiative Challenges Researchers to Unlock ...
White House
Apr 2, 2013 - President Obama unveils the “BRAIN” Initiative—a bold new ... of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) discuss the new ...
Agency Initiative Will Focus on Advancing Deep Brain ...
The New York Times
Oct 24, 2013 - The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency announced ... part of an Obama administration brain initiative, announced earlier this year, ...
President Obama Wants to Get Inside Your BRAIN
Apr 2, 2013 - President Obama announced Tuesday his plan to spend $100 million to ... In a statement announcing its participation in BRAIN, DARPA ...
BRAIN Initiative - National Institutes of Health
National Institutes of Health
7 days ago - Brain Research through Advancing Innovative Neurotechnologies SM ... Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA): Defense ...
DARPA's $40 Million Plan to Save Soldiers' Brains - The ...
The Daily Beast
Jul 15, 2014 - A $40 million grant could help troops with traumatic brain ... fanfare that followed President Obama's announcement of the BRAIN Initiative.
DARPA to play major role in mapping human brain | Military ...
Apr 2, 2013 - DARPA, the Defense Department's pioneer research arm, will play a major role in President Obama's ambitious plan to map the human brain.
Why You Should Care about Pentagon Funding of Obama's ...
Scientific American
May 22, 2013 - Ten years ago, when I was writing an article on how information is encoded in the brain, Darpa was already a major funder of research on ...
DARPA announces two programs as part of White House ...
Dec 2, 2013 - On April 2, 2013, President Obama launched the Brain Research through Advancing Innovative Neurotechnologies (BRAIN) Initiative as a bold ...

Anonymous said...

The symbol Elect Rx tells us much about this beastly chip.

This, or any type of chip is for the anti bride 'Elect'.

Rx is the symbol of "pharmakeia. The words "pharmacy" and "pharmaceutical" are derived from the Greek word pharmakeia.

(Strong's G5331) pharmakeia:the use of medicine, drugs or spells

The Pharmacist Chief spellcaster is writing us a prescription with his executive pen. I'm sure there will be more prescriptions to follow, with a wider scope.

For 105 dollars you can go to, and by saliva test you can get a DNA profile. This can be read by anyone versed in deciphering the results. Then any abnormal pathways can be addressed through diet, lifestyle changes, and supplementation. Or, it can be addressed by beastly things like reprogramming, or programming aids like chip implants.

This DNA manipulation, is the "final frontier" in medicine before Christ returns. Soon everyone will be required to have one for everything from its pharmakeia aspect, to financial transactions, and for all tracking purposes. Kinda the 'center piece' of the internet of things. With eternal consequences.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

the mark of the beast is given to prove the wearer has worshipped him. it will not be in play until he arrives.

however, this kind of technology has all kinds of negative possibilities. IF the antichrist arrives when high tech is still existing, it might well be an RFID chip.

But the mark's purpose is not to identify a person as one distinguished from all others, a very individual thing like SSNs, but as one of the many who are a set, the set of those that have worshipped the antichrist or his image.

That doesn't mean that it couldn't be included into a pre existing identification system, added on once the wearer has worshipped the antichrist or his image.

Susanna said...

Dear Constance, 11:30 P.M.

Re: IONS also takes it back to the Fellowship Foundation: Barbara Marx Hubbard's 1988 Seattle boast that "now all the resonating core groups with outwardly different purposes are merging and blending and coming together to do THE ONE WORK.

As many of us have learned, when we get back to the Fellowship Foundation, we also get back to its founder Abraham Vereide, who received a mandate from our own government officials to help with the implementation of the Marshall Plan after World War II.

Vereide's relationship with IONS co-founder Paul N. Temple goes back to 1944 according to THE FAMILY records housed with the Billy Graham Center Archives at Wheaton College in Illinois.

Paul N. Temple was an executive with Rockefeller-owned Standard Oil which had questionable ties with Nazi Germany during the Second World War.

In 1941, an investigation exposed a "marriage" cartel between John D. Rockefeller's United States-based Standard Oil Co. and I.G. Farben" which held the patent for the pesticide Zyklon B (used in Holocaust gas chambers).

The Rockefeller Foundation was one of the sources of funding for the Kaiser Wilhelm Society - some of whose departments were involved during the World War II era in crimes against humanity - which included the infamous Nazi experiments on the brains of children.

After the war, the Kaiser Wilhelm Society was about to be shut down by the Americans, but the British came up with the idea of renaming the organization the Max Planck Society after Max Planck who was the originator of the quantum theory.

Getting back to Abraham Vereide,
the annual Prayer Breakfasts also had its origin with Abraham Vereide who founded The Fellowship Foundation (a.k.a. The Family).


The same Wikipedia article describes Paul N. Temple's ties with The Family:

Vereide's principal collaborator in France was Edmond Michelet, five-time minister under President Charles de Gaulle.

By 1942, the organization had moved headquarters to Washington, DC, where it helped create breakfast groups in the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives. In 1944, the organization's name was changed to International Christian Leadership, then in 1972, to The Fellowship Foundation. It was at this time that the group's leaders decided to lower the Fellowship's public profile by decentralizing its leadership.

The movement's members have been active in reconciliation efforts between the warring leaders of The Democratic Republic of the Congo, Burundi, Rwanda and many other similar conflicts around the world.

The movement has had some involvement with the New Age Movement also known as the "Cultural Creatives Movement" in the form of Paul N. Temple, a former Standard Oil executive who was also instrumental in founding the Institute of Noetic Sciences as well as the World Business Academy. In 1987, The Family co-sponsored a conference, Bridging Through Christ, at the Goldlake New Age center near Boulder, Colorado. Barbara Marx Hubbard and Doug Coe co-chaired the event; David Spangler, Findhorn Community representatives, and Conservative Baptist Seminary representatives including Vernon Grounds and Gordon Lewis participated. The catalyst appears to have been Paul N. Temple, who co-founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences and is a major funder of both IONS and The Family through his "Three Swallows Foundation." The address of 133 C Street, SE, is the mailing address for Doug Coe,[3] and the address given on the 990 IRS form of the Three Swallows Foundation.


Susanna said...


According to the Billy Graham Center Archives at Wheaton College in Illinois, Paul N. Temple's association with Abraham Vereide goes back to 1944.

After World War II Vereide went on a mission to Europe to round up "good Germans" who were believed to have only had peripheral ties to the Nazis -armed with one letter signed by the head of the Marshall Plan.

Vereide arrived in Washington, D.C., on September 6, 1941, as the guest of a man referred to only as “Colonel Brindley.” “Here I am finally,” he wrote to his wife, Mattie, who remained in Seattle. “In a day or two—many will know that I am in town and by God's grace it will hum.” Within weeks he had held his first D.C. prayer meeting, attended by more than a hundred congressmen.

By 1943, now living in a suite at Colonel Brindley's University Club, Vereide was an insider.

“My what a full and busy day!” he wrote to Mattie on January.

The Vice President brought me to the Capitol and counseled with me regarding the programs and plans, and then introduced me to Senator [Ralph Owen] Brewster, who in turn to Senator [Harold Hitz] Burton—then planned further the program [of a prayer breakfast] and enlisted their cooperation. Then to the Supreme Court for visits with some of them . . . then back to the Senate, House. . . . The hand of the Lord is upon me. He is leading.

By the end of the war, nearly a third of U.S. senators attended one of his weekly prayer meetings.

In 1944, Vereide had foreseen what he called “the new world order.”

“Upon the termination of the war there will be many men available to carry on,” Vereide wrote in a letter to his wife. “Now the ground-work must be laid and our leadership brought to face God in humility, prayer and obedience.”

He began organizing prayer meetings for delegates to the United Nations, at which he would instruct them in God's plan for rebuilding from the wreckage of the war. Donald Stone, a high-ranking administrator of the Marshall Plan, joined the directorship of Vereide's organization.

In an undated letter, he wrote Vereide that he would “soon begin a tour around the world for the [Marshall Plan], combining with this a spiritual mission.”

In 1946, Vereide, too, toured the world, traveling with letters of introduction from a half dozen senators and representatives, and from Paul G. Hoffman, the director of the Marshall Plan.

He traveled also with a mandate from General John Hildring, assistant secretary of state, to oversee the creation of a list of good Germans of “the predictable type” (many of whom, Vereide believed, were being held for having “the faintest connection” with the Nazi regime), who could be released from prison “to be used, according to their ability in the tremendous task of reconstruction.”

Vereide met with Jewish survivors and listened to their stories, but he nevertheless considered ex-Nazis well suited for the demands of “strong” government, so long as they were willing to worship Christ as they had Hitler.


paul said...

I don't know much about Governor Jindal,
but he is ever so right to oppose the CRIME which is called Common Core.
In it's simplest terms Common Core is the current
name for the U.N.-backed educational system now in place, where the "playing field is leveled" by virtue of the fact that the best and the brightest and the gifted are held down, marginalized and ignored for the sake of the unmotivated and the slow.
Voila instant level playing field.
We have a common core of illiteracy and a common core of a complete lack of analytical, abstract reasoning.
Common Core is Marxist in origin, as have been all the major Edu reforms in the last forty years.
But hey don't listen to me. Read all about it by author Robin Eubanks and the bombshell book called "Credentialed To Destroy" (How and Why Education Became A Weapon),
It seems that ever since the UN began to dabble in Education all over the world,
and institute it's alphabet soup of initiatives such as 21st Century Skills, and Liberal Education and America's Promise (LEAP) and Criterion Referenced Competency Tests (CRCT's), and Outcomes-Based
Education (OBE's), and dozens of other doublespeak scams over the years, (many of which are just relaunched former programs that had collapsed under the weight of their own lousy results), that the actual test results of American schools have only gone down in reeding, riteing AND rithmutik.
The dumbing down of America is not just a catchy
term but a valid description of a very evil and well laid plan by many of the characters that show up in this blog such as Pierre Blowhard DeChardin.
I hope God blesses Gov. Jindal in his very unselfish
efforts which will no doubt bring him much flack.

Susanna said...


Apparently, certain officials of the Max Planck Society seem to have developed a case of amnesia regarding the participation of some of its Kaiser Wilhelm predecessors and "beneficiaries of Rockefeller largesse" in Hitler's eugenics program when it was discovered that some of the brain specimens collected from the victims were still in possession of the Max Planck Institute as late as 1990....and the Max Planck Institute of Psychiatry had in its collection brain specimens from children murdered in the child “euthanasia” program. These specimens came from children murdered at Eglfing-Haar; a psychiatric institution near Munich.

The following article by Dr. William Seidelman, M.D. explains:

Science and Inhumanity: The Kaiser-Wilhelm/Max Planck Society


This was one of the first things I thought of when I first heard about the Max Planck Florida operation set up in Jupiter, Florida on the taxpayers dime.....and about the fact that IONS co-founder former astronaut
Edgar Mitchell was given VIP treatment by this organization vis a vis "sneak peek" of the internationally renowned Science Tunnel - a special exhibition of Germany's Max Planck Society

Susanna said...


Re: Pierre Blowhard DeChardin.

BRAVO!!!!!! I wish I had thought of that one!

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

This is a classic example, of how stuff that is unbelievable is being worked on long before it is public. This article is from five years ago.

the information made public now, is the tip of this iceberg. I haven't read the pdf in the link, but genetic modification is also on the table or on the drawing board.

Obviously there are two ways to do this. Breed them, with donor wombs or artificial wombs, and rumors have been around for decades.

Or, you can do gene therapy which is already being done for medical reasons. Only in this case, it would be appropriate genes from animal or insect or reptile sources, added by injection with perhaps some chemicals or virii capable of moving them into the cells chromosomes, into an adult.

I was looking at a praying mantis a few months ago, who watched me as I cleared out its habitat. We looked at each other. A keeper of a mantis has reported the bug recognizes him and responds to his voice. Its a smart bug.

If I wanted to insectify a human for whatever reason, and didn't want to undermine brain skills too much, and didn't want a social insect too dependent on others but able to operate on its own initiative,

I'd use mantis DNA.

Now, if my twisted mind can come up with that one, what's your guess someone else came up with it thousands of years ago, someone with less restraint and less lack of facilities and equipment to work with?

A mantis is smart, patient, observes things, waits very still.....and strikes suddenly. It would make a good manager.

And precisely the mantis type humanoid is reported by alien abductees, as management level.

And they don't have six legs, not two arms four legs, not four arms two legs, but two arms, two legs. This thing was once human. Or its ancestors were.

"But its most controversial work involves genetic modification.
DARPA is working on triggering genes that will make soldiers' bodies able to convert fat into energy more efficiently so they are able to go days without eating while in the warzone.
With plump soldiers able to go on deployment for days living just off their own body fat, that would free up space in their kit bags hitherto used for ration packs...

Washington's military scientists are also hoping to work out how to trigger cells to regrow limbs for soldiers maimed by enemy bombs and landmines.
With well-documented cases already of young children regrowing fingers severed in accidents, DARPA is throwing significant sums at research to identify the physiological trigger and activate it in adults.
One area of success has been in shutting off the trigger of sleep. A drug was tested on U.S. Army helicopter pilots that enabled them to stay up longer than 40 hours, with their levels of concentration actually improving after nearly two days without rest.
It is hoped to replace the amphetamine-based drugs that have previously been used to keep servicemen alert during operations.
They had been found to affect decision making and had been blamed for errors in judgement that had led to many so-called incidents of friendly fire."

now, some of this is just tinkering with trigger genes. But to not need to eat or even drink as another article mentioned? you need non human genetics for that, something swiped from a camel, for instance.

Stalin's plan to breed an army of ape human hybrids only failed because they didn't know how to bypass the sexual process altogether. Now we know how to do it.

Genetic engineering and the GMO crops etc. have their origin in scientists noticing, that in nature exactly such gene transfer, called "lateral inheritance" happens between species and even between genera, by means of viruses transporting genes. So I suppose everyone has a little insect or something and vice versa. But it is kept if manageable or jettisoned later or suppressed.

paul said...

It's a gift.

ConspiraciesRUs said...

I also heard the National Weather Service is actually working on a real live Sharknado...and it will start over Lake Erie using imported bull sharks, the only shark that can swim in fresh water. They let 'em through the Erie Canal.

Source: Conspiracy Theories R Us: An organization so secret, we tell you about it.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Susanna said...

I want to offer the following correction to my post of 5:15 P.M. where I wrote:

"some of the brain specimens collected from the victims were still in possession of the Max Planck Institute as late as 1990"..

That should read:

" some of the brain specimens collected from the victims were still in THE possession of the Max Planck Institute FOR PSYCHIATRY as late at 1990".

Susanna said...

Paul 6:57,

RE: "It's a gift."

Fer sure!!!!!

Susanna said...


Re: If I wanted to insectify a human for whatever reason, and didn't want to undermine brain skills too much, and didn't want a social insect too dependent on others but able to operate on its own initiative,

I'd use mantis DNA.

Now, if my twisted mind can come up with that one, what's your guess someone else came up with it thousands of years ago, someone with less restraint and less lack of facilities and equipment to work with?

Actually, you are not as far "off the reservation" in your thinking as you might imagine.

Combining human DNA with the DNA of other living species may produce a modified entity called a CHIMERA.

CHIMERA (genetics)

.....In August 2003, researchers at the Shanghai Second Medical University in China reported that they had successfully fused human skin cells and dead rabbit eggs to create the first human chimeric embryos. The embryos were allowed to develop for several days in a laboratory setting, then destroyed to harvest the resulting stem cells. In 2007, scientists at the University of Nevada School of Medicine created a sheep whose blood contained 15% human cells and 85% sheep cells. The implications of increasingly realizable projects using human-animal hybrids for biopharmaceutical production, and potentially for producing cells or organs, have raised a host of ethical and safety issues......


The US and Western Europe have strict codes of ethics and regulations in place that expressly forbid certain subsets of experimentation using human cells, though there is a vast difference in the regulatory framework. In May 2008, a robust debate in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom on the ethics of creating chimeras with human stem cells led to the decision that embryos would be allowed to be made in laboratories, given that they would be destroyed within the first 14 days. No such foundation has been set for chimera research regulation in the US.....

Of course, who among us believes that the mad scientists of the world would let a few pesky little laws get in the way of their obsession with playing God???

Susanna said...

DARPA funding computer-mediated telepathy

May 15, 2009

Note that the above article dates back to 2009, so this has been on the drawing boards for a while.

Army developing ‘synthetic telepathy’

The Army's Bold Plan to Turn Soldiers Into Telepaths

The U.S. Army wants to allow soldiers to communicate just by thinking. 
The new science of synthetic telepathy could soon make that happen.

By Adam Piore|Wednesday, July 20, 2011


"The technology of brain mapping will help computers find which word or phrase a person is thinking about, when a particular part of the brain shows to be activated in the EEG. The mapping of brain responses of the English language is a huge issue and D’Zmura says it will take at least 15-20 years before the thought-based communication becomes a reality.

As Sajda said, “there are technical obstacles that must be overcome, but as we know, 20 years ago people could never imagine that it would be possible to communicate through Internet”.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

thank you Susanna.

I take issue with the ethics of destroying such embryos. with that much human DNA, not merely a few genes here and there (like human insulin being produced or something like that), I suspect this might be human or humanish.

such a creature probably should not be made in the first place.

if it is made, it should not be destroyed. Probably should be sterilized, however, but should be allowed to live in a decent and separate environment.

Susanna said...

Something similar to "synthetic telepathy" was portrayed during the Cold War in the futuristic film FIREFOX starring Clint Eastwood.

In the film Clint Eastwood plays the role of United States Air Force Major Mitchell Gant whose mission it is to hijack a state of the art Russian MiG 31 jet codenamed Firefox, which carries weapons controlled by thought. The only problem is - Major Gant has to think his commands in Russian!

FIREFOX (film)

A joint Anglo-American plot is devised to steal a highly advanced Soviet fighter aircraft (MiG-31, NATO code name "Firefox") which is capable of Mach 6, is invisible to radar, and carries weapons controlled by thought. Former United States Air Force Major Mitchell Gant (Eastwood), a Vietnam veteran and former POW, infiltrates the Soviet Union, aided by his ability to speak Russian (due to his having had a Russian mother) and a network of Jewish dissidents and sympathizers, three of whom are key scientists working on the fighter itself. His goal is to steal the Firefox and fly it back to friendly territory for more...

Susanna said...


Your are right, and since there are alternative stem cell sources apart from embryonic stem cells and/or other embryonic tissues that can be used for the type of organ regenerative and other research you referred to, the production of a Chimera becomes all the more reckless and morally reprehensible.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

I have strongly suspected that the duckbilled platypus is the product of multi species experimentation. Someone else thought so too. the original article link is dead, but the article itself I saved on my blog.

seems it had bird DNA.

Now, having heard of double penises (called hemipenises in reptiles) in almost all marsupials, and checked to be sure with this article

I am figuring the whole kit and kaboodle of marsupials are the product of someone trying to improve on reproductive tactics in mammals.

Because this is a reptile feature.

They are except for the prehensile tailed opossum which has hitched rides all over the world, localized to the Australian subcontinent.

So are the wandjina. critters Austrialian Aborigine honor who once seem to have run Australia and controlled the climate, then left. The art shows them looking like greys.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

This means that once they existed, God did not despise them, maybe He didn't make them as they were, but He made their first ancestors, and put the marsupials on the Ark also.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Illuminati Ice & Fire Challenges EXPOSED !!! Another Illuminati Research Scam & Occult Ritual! (they control the medical industry.)

Susanna said...

Constance 11:44 P.M.

Jonas Salk is definitely on board vis a vis the Salk Institute for Biological Studies.

As a member of the Jonas Salk Foundation’s Epoch B group, Barbara (Marx Hubbard) is working to understand and catalyze the actions needed to navigate this quantum change in time to avoid the global collapses foreseen. She is also working on the synthesis of the principles and practices of Conscious Evolution and New Thought with Reverend Jim Lockard.

Jonas Salk co-founded a New Age religious organization with Barbara Marx Hubbard called “Epoch B”;

Marx Hubbard believed in the necessity of killing off the “unevolving”

A presumable fan of Marx Hubbard describes her as “a true evolutionary mystic, who experiences the 13.7 billion year process of creation as alive within herself.”

Marx Hubbard described it differently in an interview with Jeffrey Mishlove:

“[Mishlove] You have five children.

[Marx Hubbard]..”but I really wasn’t innately a mother… actually I was miserable… I was dying inside. And then I read[Abraham] Maslow and I realized my problem was I had not found my vocation… When I found it, the most important thing that happened to me was to find one other person who fully got it. And I happened to meet a man called Dr. Jonas Salk… I wrote him a letter about certain things –a theater of the future… And he had an idea about a theater of man, to dramatize human evolution as learned through biology…and he wanted to do it at the Salk Institute… One day Jonas Salk called me up..and he said, ‘You have stated my dream. I’d like to take you to lunch…and he took me to lunch in New York and I’ll never forget it…”

Salk and his Institute fellows were purveyors of “metabiology” and philosophy – see the Salk Institute page.

[from Jonas Salk Papers, linked above] “In the early 1970s Dr. Salk began writing extensively on the subject of human evolution and the potential of mankind. Some of these writings appeared in two books: MAN UNFOLDING (1972) and THE SURVIVAL OF THE WISEST (1973). In the latter book, Dr. Salk discussed his theory of metabiology — a theory that relates to man’s potential for transcending the ordinary limits of living matter. He theorized that Mankind was on the threshold of a new era — Epoch B — in which a new form of human consciousness might prevail. Such a consciousness would, he felt, enable mankind to draw upon imagination and intellect for overcoming the serious physical challenges to survival that have arisen in the modern era. Dr. Salk further expanded his ideas in the book WORLD POPULATION AND HUMAN VALUES (1981), written in collaboration with his son Jonathan, and in his most recent book ANATOMY OF REALITY: MERGING OF INTUITION AND REASON (1983).” [excerpted from the UCSD page]

Susanna said...

Max Planck Florida Institute for Neuroscience Welcomes Obama's BRAIN Project

April 5, 2013

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

"A presumable fan of Marx Hubbard describes her as “a true evolutionary mystic, who experiences the 13.7 billion year process of creation as alive within herself.”"

uh, I haven't read through the DSM but this does sound vaguely familiar as symptoms of some category of mental illness.

if your average person on the street, or worse yet "street person" were to talk like this, it would be recognized for what it is.

But if they have money, status, social and political contacts, and dress right, present themselves well it is maybe hokum or bad philosophy or pseudo science, but not insane.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

paul said...

I assume you all have seen Ligers and Tigons.
Just google Ligers and or Tigons.

Isn't it amazing that the results of such genetic tampering comes in the form of giantism, which confirms the Biblical account, and the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jasher.

paul said...

Barbara Barx Rubbish

Constance Cumbey said...

Just about ready to go on air with Dr. Stanley Monteith's Radio Liberty broadcast. One hour.

JUST HEARD ON OUR LOCAL TV that Master Card was exploring implanting chips for credit card use! NBC affiliate in Detroit had this info!


Susanna said...

Paul 5:29

Re: Barbara Barx Rubbish

She certainly does!!!!!! :-)

Susanna said...


Re:Humorously, vis a vis DEAN RADIN, I see he was born on FEBRUARY 29TH, my birthday. He talks about this 13th birthday which evidently was his last and says that by 2036 he will be old enough to buy a beer. Let's see, that would make him 16 years younger than Yours Truly who has only celebrated 17 birthdays in her young life.

But it is Dean Radin who needs to grow up! LOL

Constance Cumbey said...

Springfield, Mass, Susanna's home had a television presentation tonight very similar to the one we had in Detroit extolling the new modern "conveniences" that included Master Card's exploration of computer chip implants in the hand!


Susanna said...

Constance 6:30 P.M.

Thanks for the heads up, Constance. I was watching Fox News and would have missed this RFID news storymif you hadn't mentioned it here.

The RFID chip that the news report mentions is exactly like the chips I helped JD research for his blog. Here is the link.


Back around 2004, these chips ( by Verichip ) were promoted in Spain as a "cool" thing that enabled young people to avoid having to wait in line to get into crowded popular nightclubs.

With a wave of a hand, they would be admitted to the nightclub and when they got to their table, they could pay for their drinks by having their wrists or hands scanned.

Clubbers in Spain are choosing to receive a microchip implant instead of carrying a membership card. It is the latest and perhaps the most unlikely of uses for implantable radio frequency ID chips.

The Baja Beach Club in Barcelona offers people signing up for VIP membership a choice between an RFID chip and a normal card. VIP members can jump the entrance queues, reserve a table and use the nightclub's VIP lounge.

"The RFID chip is not compulsory," says Conrad Chase, managing director of the club. But he says there are advantages to having it. The obvious one is that you do not have to carry a membership card around with you, but also it means you can leave your wallet at home. This is because the RFID can be used as an in-house debit card, says Chase.

When drinks are ordered the RFID is scanned with a handheld device and the cost is added to your bill. The chips, called VeriChips, are produced by US company Applied Digital Solutions.

Here in Massachusetts, there is extensive EBT card usage.....a.k.a. welfare. EBT stands for "Electronic Benefit Transfer."

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if some sort of an RFID chip is someday required here in Massachusetts as a way to rein in the massive fraud and abuse that has resulted from reckless abandonment of the welfare reforms that had been put in place by previous governors William Weld and Mitt Romney.

Welfare, food stamp recipients could soon be required to get microchipped with RFID tags

Tuesday, February 05, 2013 by: Ethan A. Huff, staff writer

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is how RFID chips will be made the "norm" here in Massachusetts. I feel sorry for the poor honest people who have no choice but to rely on welfare.

Susanna said...

P.S. Our police department also does retinal scans - which are painless.

People are encouraged have a retinal scan done when they are first diagnosed with dementia or Alzheimer's Disease.

When an Alzheimer's sufferer wanders from his/her home with no identification, there is sometimes no other way to identify them except through a retinal scan.

Like any other technology, however, this technology can be misused and abused.

Susanna said...

Just saw this on Drudge.

Could we soon send emails 'telepathically'? Scientist transmits message into the mind of a colleague 5,000 miles away using brain waves.

Scientists used EEG headsets to record electrical activity in the brain.

Electrical activity from words ‘hola’ and ‘ciao’ were converted into binary

The greeting was sent from Thiruvananthapuram, India to Strasbourg

A computer translated the message and then used electrical stimulation to implant it in the receiver’s mind, appearing as specific flashes of light

According to the researchers, this is the first time humans have sent a message almost directly into each other’s brains

By Ellie Zolfagharifard for MailOnline

Published: 04:31 EST, 29 August 2014

Anonymous said...

Just noting another project(The 100 yr starship study) DARPA was backing along with NASA reported in 2011 by Mr Intergalactic on his blog. '... in October 2010, the Director of NASA/Ames, Pete Worden, inadvertently revealed that DARPA was funding Ames to the tune of $1M for such a study.' What interested me was the fact that with only about 30 people involved in this meeting one of them was Barbara Marx Hubbard. She manages to get herself into meetings and symposiums without too much effort, doesn't she? Her Foundation for Conscious Evolution is actually taken seriously enough for her to speak at such a gathering relating to space travel?????? ah, but we must recall her 84 speech when running for a place in American politics, where she said we must build new worlds on this earth and new worlds In Space. And also to exploring the further reaches of the human spirit and the infinite universe. She even says THE FORCE IS WITH US, like something out of Star WArs. I'm sure you've all seen this video but I still get a kick out of looking at some of the faces of those in the crowd who seem totally perplexed by her ramblings. Pity we couldn't just wipe her off as a loon, sadly, she manages to be heard, if not as Vice P then in these meetings and symposiums where all those who make decisions for the rest of us, gather. She and her friends are powerful behind the scenes.

From OZ

Constance Cumbey said...

Excellent information, OZ, thanks!


Constance Cumbey said...


Yes, the non-biblical reasons to fight it are important, but the biblical ones even more so. The population has pretty effectively been De-ORWELLED, meaning they aren't as frightened of the technology as once. Most people still, unless atheists, recognize the border between Heaven and Hell!


Unknown said...

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Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Constance, I agree that biblical reasons are more important,

but to get people on board fighting something who don't care about biblical reasons, but you need a larger head count than you have to fight it,

you have to bring up non biblical reasons.

and one of the biggest reasons to use against it, is that in the case of EMP either solar or nuclear, what is going to happen to the chip? it may have no antenna to speak of but your body is probably all the antenna needed to fry that chip. Or reprogram it to your detriment.

Don't forget hackers breaching it to get at your money. How do you change your passwords when your stuff runs on a chip embedded in your skin?

you could get hundreds of thousands more on board fighting this, with this kind of argument, tailored to atheist and non Christian religion interests, than by focussing on biblical reasons alone.

Constance Cumbey said...


We managed to get the word out effectively for 30 years -- Katherine Albrecht is doing just fine and she is not abandoning the Bible arguments.


Constance Cumbey said...


I'm interested in giving honest warnings, not starting a mass movement. Plenty of people are on the privacy arguments.


Constance Cumbey said...

I'm just going on the air in a minute and this is my topic for the day -- the computer chip implants now being aggressively pushed, inter alia, by Institute of Noetic Sciences, the White House, and Master Card.


Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Constance, did I ever say abandon the biblical arguments? I am talking about having two sets of arguments, one for the bible people one for the antis to neutral whoever will not listen to biblical stuff.

I just think we should all be armed to deal with whoever. we may not care about some pragmatic argument, but they will. These arguments should be thought up studied and applied.

Susanna said...


WOW! Fascinating information, OZ!!! I had never heard of this 100-year Starship Study before you posted the information on it here.

I did a little snooping around and discovered that there is a Wikipedia article about it.


Here are some more links relating to the information you posted.


DARPA, NASA team on '100-Year Starship' project

100 Year Starship Symposium Kicks Off to Ponder Interstellar Travel
September 13, 2012



Here, Barbara Marx Hubbard is listed as one of the attendees

by Paul Gilster on January 28, 2011

Here is a video about "100 Year Starship." The money is reportedly only going to build the "infrastructure - not to build the actual spaceship. What's up with that???





It seems that "Project Icarus" is working out the technological aspects of the actual spaceship and is partnered with the Mae Jemison Foundation.

PROJECT ICARUS (interstellar)



Mae Jemison and Team Establish 100 Year Starship With Goal to Make Interstellar Space Travel Reality by 2112

posted by admin on May 17, 2012




Susanna said...

The 100-year Starship project that plans to transport humans beyond the solar system
Project has received the backing of Bill Clinton, who is set to chair the project's symposium next week

Non-profit scheme has already received funding after an initial seed investment by the US military

By Mark Prigg

Published: 10:04 EST, 6 September 2012 | Updated: 08:21 EST, 8 September 2012

Susanna said...

Among the ppeople involved in setting up the 100 Year Starship
Study is Jack Sarfatti.

Sarfatti who was at one time a serious theoretical physicist became part of an informal group of physicists in California known as the Fundamental Fysiks Group, who in the 1970s, according to David Kaiser, a physicist and historian of science at MIT, helped to nurture some of the alternative ideas in quantum physics that today form the basis of quantum information science - an area of study based on the idea that information science depends on quantum effects in physics.

Among those "alternative ideas in quantum physics" is so- called "quantum mysticism."

Sarfatti was one of a group of around 10 physicists in the San Francisco area in the 1970s who became part of the Fundamental Fysiks Group at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. Apart from Sarfatti, the group included its founder Elizabeth Rauscher, as well as Henry Stapp, Fred Alan Wolf, Nick Herbert, Fritjof Capra, John Clauser, Philippe Eberhard, Saul-Paul Sirag, and George Weissman—a "very smart and very playful" group, according to Kaiser, with Sarfatti as the star.

Some of them held jobs within academia, but others had been left under-employed when the post-war boom in physics ended. Kaiser writes that, holding PhDs in theoretical physics from elite universities, they tried to carve out new roles for themselves, writing about quantum mysticism and becoming part of the Bay Area's counterculture and New Age movement. Sarfatti's involvement with these issues did not advance his academic career, though he regarded his exile from academia as self-imposed.
According to Kaiser, quantum theory—particularly Bell's theorem and the concept of quantum entanglement—had raised questions about parapsychology and issues such as telepathy. In How the Hippies Saved Physics (2011), he explains how the Fundamental Fysiks Group cultivated patrons outside academia, including the human potential movement (see below), who they hoped might be interested in the broader application of these ideas. There was also significant government interest. The Central Intelligence Agency and Defense Intelligence Agency set up a program called ESPionage, financing experiments into telepathy and remote viewing to the tune of tens of millions each year. The research was conducted by the Stanford Research Institute (SRI), where Sarfatti and the Fundamental Fysiks Group became what Kaiser calls its "house theorists."

The group became local celebrities in San Francisco. When the film director Francis Ford Coppola bought out City Magazine in 1975, one of its earliest features was a photo spread of Sarfatti, Saul-Paul Sirag, Fred Alan Wolf and Nick Herbert , an article that cemented their position within the local counter-cultural community. The spread played up what Kaiser called their "guru" status, and discussed the group "going into trances, working at telepathy, and dipping into their subconscious in experiments toward psychic mobility.".....

.....In October 2010 Sarfatti was among 30 people involved in setting up a one-year working group, the 100-Year Starship Study—financed to the tune of $1.1million by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency and NASA's Ames Research Center—on how to achieve interstellar space flight within the next 100 years. entire article...


Quantum mysticism is a set of metaphysical beliefs and associated practices that seek to relate consciousness, intelligence, or mystical world-views to the ideas of quantum mechanics and its interpretations. Quantum mysticism is considered pseudoscience and "quackery". entire article...

Susanna said...

P.S. Jack Sarfatti was also involved in the fiasco having to do with researching the bogus claims made by Israeli "spoonbender" Uri Geller.

Others who were involved included former astronaut and co-founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences Edgar Mitchell and Judith Skutch( Whitson) who is also involved in the publication and dissemination of A COURSE IN MIRACLES" - at one time with Diane Temple, wife of other IONS co-counder Paul N. Temple.

paul said...

Nidal Malik Hasan says he wants to join ISIS.

I say we get up a collection to buy him the plane ticket.

Anonymous said...

Leaving a link by Barbara Marx Hubbard noted in the RELIGIOUS section of the HUFFINGTON POST (I guess this shouldn't shock!)It was first posted in aug 2010 and updated in may 2011. It is titled: Conscious Evolution and the Integration of Science and Spirituality.
I guess it was timely to have it updated in 2011 seeing's she was involved in the starship study meeting around that time. She says: "We are the first species that faces extinction by its own acts and knows it.

This is just the beginning. Through the advent of evolutionary technologies such as biotechnology, nanotechnology, robotics, space travel, the quest for zero-point energy devices and more, the human species is gaining powers it had previously attributed only to gods."

Barbara takes every opportunity to let us all know that 'we are our own gods' (in my personal opinion). How she manages to be published in magazines, or attend meetings with a few handpicked reps and so on, is amazing to me but then again, all those who have invited her to write or speak or attend certain functions are just some of the manyyyyyyyyyyy who are aligned with Barbara's train of thought and this is the worry - its spreading like wildfire ! Christians beware.

Thanks for putting all the other links up regarding the Starship Study Susannah.

From OZ

John Rupp said...

Here is some interesting questions and answers about Common Core starting this year in our local school districts. This is out of our local newspaper.

John Rupp said...

This is our Republican Gubernatorial candidate Dennis Richardson's write up opposing Common Core here in Oregon.

Susanna said...


Thank YOU for telling us about the 100 Year Starship project!

Again, I had never heard of it before you posted information about it here.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Dr. joseph P. farrell, says that there is this tower of babel event as he calls it, where mankind is stymied in getting its act together, and says no sin is indicated as the reason for the intervention.

Though he seems to be a very gentle man, he has a hidden pride problem to judge by indicators in some of his writings and reactions, and this creates a blind spot.

The sin at Babel is evident, that they wanted to make a name for themselves, and not be scattered abroad on the earth. (pride in the first case and rebellion against God's orders to fill the earth, apparently in networked extended and nuclear families and individuals, not big tribes and nations and states like we have now, no empires and so forth).

This is what was stopped before the time came that this was to be allowed (much later incl. now).

But the really interesting thing is an ancient writer's report about this, who said the tower's remains were still to be seen in his day. And it was no ziqqurat.

Very very tall, very very thin.

An antenna.

(lying on its side by then.)

the bricks and mortar must have been for the base housing, or perhaps even for part of it as a hollow thing that housed something else, or would have.

maybe the story that the earth once had a power grid, not like ours, involving weird physics for lack of a better term, is true after all, and this was to be the hub, or to step in electrically and take control of local small harmless grids made for the use of locals.

(I forget the source, it is in my book A Possible History of Life on Mars by Christine Erikson at kindle, download kindle for pc or mac free and read on your computer instead of buying a kindle.)

looks like we are moving in that direction again.

so the rubbish barbara barx is mixing science and spirituality, and this is the essence of some forms of sorcery. While this doesn't involve using demons to get effects, it may involve getting help from them to figure stuff out, and definitely involves self deifying, and even before this notice the almost idolatrous honor we are encouraged to hold great men of science in? or the greatness of the human race itself?

Even without the New Age the same mentality has been in play for centuries.

And Charlotte Iserbyt's error is to think that not reading great works of literature and poetry is a bad thing.

Most of that should be thrown in the garbage and never be taught in school except as a sidenote of how fine words and intellectual pretensions and manipulation of emotion helped warp us over decades even more than we are warped to begin with.

Because a lot of that is nothing but more of the same serpentine crap anyway, and some modern developments reaching maturity in idolization of emotion, personal supremacy, and even death metal music, has its start in the Romantic writers.

the state of mind the fine arts can put you in is not unlike some drugs, but relying on the brain tweaked by ideas and rythm of words and so forth alone is weaker and takes more time to warp one. But the deception is there.

Paul and another epistle writer warn about people who use fine words, and vain philosophy and so forth.

the American exceptionalism and even notions of divine destiny that stokes american pride and makes us susceptible to every deception by power elites, is to be found in the 1800s popular literature.

Susanna said...

Paul 4:22 P.M.

Re:I say we get up a collection to buy him the plane ticket.

Yes. One way!!!

Susanna said...

This just posted at Drudge.

Is there a microchip implant in your future?

By John Brandon
·Published August 30, 2014·

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Anonymous said...

Earlier this yr Ted Chu and Barbara Marx Hubbard both had write ups on that Thrive Blog. Scroll down the page for Barbara's effort. This is why I 'wring my hands' over her and her kind being keynote speakers at a Nuns conference (for heavens sake). Ted Chu is of the same ilk but what a worry knowing people like himself have held positions at the World Bank (macroeconomist) and other major companies.

Note that Barbara refers to herself as a colleague and Co Worker of Dr Chu. She also endorsed Chu's book, HUMAN PURPOSE AND TRANSHUMAN POTENTIAL.

I can't help but wonder about a certain arrogance people like these two possess. Aren't they in awe of God's creation - us? like the devil himself, these people are not content to have God be in charge!

From Oz

Susanna said...

Dear OZ and all,

It might be helpful to post some definitions here as memory refreshers for newbies and for those who may not recall previous discussions of transhumanism on this blog.


Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities. Transhumanist thinkers study the potential benefits and dangers of emerging technologies that could overcome fundamental human limitations, as well as the ethics of developing and using such technologies. They speculate that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label "posthuman".

The contemporary meaning of the term transhumanism was foreshadowed by one of the first professors of futurology, FM-2030, who taught "new concepts of the Human" at The New School in the 1960s, when he began to identify people who adopt technologies, lifestyles and worldviews transitional to "posthumanity" as "transhuman". This hypothesis would lay the intellectual groundwork for the British philosopher Max More to begin articulating the principles of transhumanism as a futurist philosophy in 1990, and organizing in California an intelligentsia that has since grown into the worldwide transhumanist movement.

Influenced by seminal works of science fiction, the transhumanist vision of a transformed future humanity has attracted many supporters and detractors from a wide range of perspectives. Transhumanism has been characterized by one critic, Francis Fukuyama, as among the world's most dangerous ideas, to which Ronald Bailey countered that it is rather the "movement that epitomizes the most daring, courageous, imaginative, and idealistic aspirations of humanity"
......... read more...........







Susanna said...




As the saying goes " Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die. Immortality - technological or otherwise - is a prominent transhumanist/New Age goal.








Posthuman god

........A variation on the posthuman theme is the notion of a "posthuman god"; the idea that posthumans, being no longer confined to the parameters of human nature, might grow physically and mentally so powerful as to appear possibly god-like by present-day human standards. This notion should not be interpreted as being related to the idea portrayed in some science fiction that a sufficiently advanced species may "ascend" to a higher plane of existence—rather, it merely means that some posthuman beings may become so exceedingly intelligent and technologically sophisticated that their behaviour would not possibly be comprehensible to modern humans, purely by reason of their limited intelligence and imagination. The difference here is that the latter stays within the bounds of the laws of the material universe, while the former exceeds them by going beyond it more.......


So you are right OZ in saying "like the devil himself, these people are not content to have God be in charge! This is because they want to "be as gods" themselves - just like the devil told Adam and Eve they could be by obeying him ( the devil ) instead of God. Gen 3:5

Anonymous said...

Never meant to go over old ground Susanna, I guess I'm just aghast at the continual efforts of Barbara Marx Hubbard when it comes to anything and everything which goes against the Word of God. She is a woman on a mission and manages to have her foot in many doors. It is no wonder the Pope consecrated the Vatican to SAints Michael and Joseph a while back because as we know, when push came to shove once upon a time, Michael had the guts to tell Lucifer to get over himself and know his place. This is just what I feel like telling Barbara Marx Hubbard and her many friends - Get over yourselves.

Anonymous said...

Oops, that was from me over here in OZ Susannah...

Susanna said...


Re:Never meant to go over old ground Susanna, I guess I'm just aghast at the continual efforts of Barbara Marx Hubbard when it comes to anything and everything which goes against the Word of God.

You are not merely going over old ground. I am so sorry if you thought I meant that you were.

As far as I am concerned, we can not go over it enough!!!

The material on the 100 Year Starship project was a really great find!!! And exposing Barbara Marx Hubbard's ties to it was stellar!!!

You can't say too much about Barbara Marx Hubbard's New Age encroachments into authentic Christian circles - especially since she herself is an agnostic!!!

The following is what she had to say just this past May about Cardinal Müller's LCWR comments. Pay attention to the people named in the article whom she most admires.

Chardin’s theory suggests a single energy universe in which souls are not really individual, but parts of a whole. Many New Age proponents use his theory. It has been condemned by the Holy See.

Like many New Agers, Barbara Marx Hubbard is a Pierre Teilhard de Chardin groupie who embraces his blasphemous heresy of evolutionary pantheism....according to which everything in the universe is BECOMING GOD!!!

THAT is what the "Omega Point" twaddle is ultimately all about.

“Pius XII’s encyclical Humani Generis (1950) completely rejected the Teilhardian position on evolution. Teilhard was furious and he accused the encyclical of exhibiting a ‘masochism and sadism of orthodoxy’.”

Teilhard's hissy fit alone speaks volumes does it not???

On a lighter note, there are those who refer to Chardin as "the L.Ron Hubbard of Catholicism." :-)

Anonymous said...

Haha, I'd never heard of Tielhard being referred to as the L Ron Hubbard of Catholicism - and a bit spooky that this particular quack has the same surname as Barbara! although we hear they are not related.

I had read that article she put out in response to the Cardinal and might have left it here in fact but what gets me is that she goes on and on (like her buddies do) about their being many 'christs' that have visited us through the ages. If you understand that God sent his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON to us then it discounts all these other so called 'christs'. God sent Jesus, who was the Christ, he didn't send anyone else as the Christ. He didn't grab Christ and pop him into all and sundry along the way which is what Barbara will have us believe. She makes mention of the God and Christ Catholic belief in that article. It is no wonder that Francis is reminding people of the devil's existence because we are seeing his handiwork right up in our faces within the Church (the molesters as well as Nuns who've been beguiled by the devilish BM Hubbard and friends). There is another Nun from Spain who had my hair standing on end, not sure if she's been discussed here, must find you a link, perhaps you can enlighten (just the regular enlightening, not the mysterious New Age type) me on this woman Susanna - I appreciate your info.

From Oz

Constance Cumbey said...

Hi Susanna,

Well noted on Abraham cum "Abram" Vereide and the IONS link. I've read Norman Grubb's book MODERN VIKING several times. I wrote five articles on the "Hi Jacking of Evangelicalism" for and reprinted them here on the blogspot. When I realized the ramifications vis a vis "The Twelve" who met annually at Marian Johnson's rented mansion on Embassy Row in Washington, D.C., I was afraid I would cross Jesus warned line about the wheat and tares. Those of "the twelve" named on page 79 of that book were Dr. E. Stanley Jones, Sam Shoemaker, Dr. Rufus Jones, Dr. Frank Laubach, Dr. Glenn Clark, Starr Daily, the Rev. John Magee, Congressman Walter Judd, the Rev. Sherry Day AND OTHERS. Among "the others" conveniently left out of that list in Grubb's book was ROLAND GAMMON the author of NIRVANA NOW. My suspicion has been was that this was a mystical/Theosophical crowd and their World War II timing was significant. Vereide's role in being asked to start a type of "spiritual United Nations" (page 95) is also extremely telling.

I suspect they may have used Corrie Ten Boom as sanitizing cover for their real operation which was probably what Barbara Marx Hubbard described as "now all the resonating core groups with outwardly different purposes are merging and blending and coming together to do THE ONE WORK."

Glenn Clark's book THE MAN WHO TAPPED THE SECRETS OF THE UNIVERSE is especially incriminating of that crowd of which he was one.

The Man Who Tapped the Secrets of the Universe can be pulled down on the internet for free reading. Here is one such link, It is blithely passed on on some Christian sites as "inspirational reading." It is BIG TIME NEW AGE and they were as mucb into it as Alice Bailey!


Constance Cumbey said...

Several years ago Dorothy Margraf alerted me to an Indian pro-Hitler writer named Savitri Devi. I was exploring Daniel Livingstone's review book on BLACK TERROR WHITE SOLDIERS. He had on his website and/or Facebook page some fascinating material about somebody who up to now escaped my radar -- a Chilean New Ager who was a powerful politician named Miguel Serrano. He lived from 1917 to 2009 and was unabashedly pro-Hitler to the end. Still he held powerful positions. I've ordered one of his books from Amazon, but insights on Miguel Serrano are needed from all.


Constance Cumbey said...


I disagree with your hypothesis that the mark of the beast is not for identification purposes. Yes, the prophecy says clearly that it is -- no one could buy nor sell without it. Remember, before one starts drafting, they first take volunteers. The public is being softened up for this and the softening up officially started when they started pushing it for animal use.


Constance Cumbey said...

Christine, the "Joseph Farrell" staff frankly sounds like science fiction -- NOT reputable research. We are to believe it "was tall and thin" and NOT A ZIGGURAT. I'm not sure it is credible discussion for this site.


Constance Cumbey said...


I have absolutely no qualms from a legal standpoint from saying, "I can't do it -- it's against my religion" In the USA, at least, that's still supposed to be a good argument. Yes, and its used daily in court and not dismissed as "conspiracy theory".


Constance Cumbey said...

Hi Susanna:

I must confess that part of the material you posted was my personal contribution based on my research to Wikipedia. I wrote the following for the article several years ago:

The movement has had some involvement with the New Age Movement also known as the "Cultural Creatives Movement" in the form of Paul N. Temple, a former Standard Oil EXECUTIVE who was also instrumental in founding the Institute of Noetic Sciences as well as the World Business Academy. In 1987, The Family co-sponsored a conference, Bridging Through Christ, at the Goldlake New Age center near Boulder, Colorado. Barbara Marx Hubbard and Doug Coe co-chaired the event; David Spangler, Findhorn Community representatives, and Conservative Baptist Seminary representatives including Vernon Grounds and Gordon Lewis participated. The catalyst appears to have been Paul N. Temple, who co-founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences and is a major funder of both IONS and The Family through his "Three Swallows Foundation." The address of 133 C Street, SE, is the mailing address for Doug Coe,[3] and the address given on the 990 IRS form of the Three Swallows Foundation.



Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Constance, it wasn't Joseph Farrell who said that, he only complained that there was no sin involved in Babel but someone goes out of their way to keep us limited.

My source on the tower itself, the tall and thin is my words based on the measurements, was a writer from antiquity that I stumbled across myself. i will have to go into my draft notes for my book to find the writer.

of course in those days, no one understood the implications of this.

most of what this blog episode and comments are talking about sounds like science fiction to the average person.

Constance Cumbey said...


Vis a Vis the "Mars" story, I'm specializing in Planet Earth and Heaven on this blogspot. I just now discovered this sideline and I see it is being sold on Kindle for $7.99. I'm not peddling my own things here. I've got my hands full with accusations of "on-earth' conspiracy theories -- I'm not up to taking ones on about Mars. Is there a free .pdf download anywhere?


Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Constance Cumbey said...

To John Rupp:

Thanks for the Oregon update on the Common Core crisis. It is interesting to read on the link you supplied that even the Gates Foundation is calling for a delay.


Constance Cumbey said...

Christine, you can write better than that last post.

We should all say, "it's against our religion" -- that's the bottom line -- its the sin of Eve being repeated all over again -- Taking the mark and the system is partaking of forbidden fruit and the penalties are clear.


Constance Cumbey said...

Christine, I deleted your last post. It was just too rambling and aimless -- and the spelling and punctuation were not those of an experienced writer.

My stance on taking the computer chip implant for mood stabilization or buying convenience is JUST SAY NO!


Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Constance, the contract I signed with when I published on kindle prohibits distribution of a free copy. I think you might be able to get one free if you sign up for amazon prime but I'm not sure.


the mark is ONE number or ONE symbol representing the antichrist, and is like a club membership card or a gang membership tattoo.

such things identify the bearer as having rights and so forth that come with membership. you show the special signet ring or club card signed by the boss at the door and you"re in, so to speak, that sort of thing.

wearing "666" is not going to distinguish you as an individual from any other individual, it distinguishes you as a member of a group - those that worshipped the antichrist - as opposed to the members of the opposite group - those who did not worship the antichrist.

That doesn't mean that RFID cannot be used to facilitate the restrictions on trade (which means the black market will come into play against it, probably with the death penalty if caught participating).

My arguments are not about how you or anyone defends themselves.


a. to persuade them to argue against it, when they don't care about the Bible or consider Revelation to be spiritual and figurative and never literal,

and getting these incl. non Christians to add to the ground swell against RFID chips, which means a better chance of stopping it,

b. as an argument to give legislators most of whom don't care about The Bible or don't interpret it the same way.

you don't, for instance, tell a secular humanist he should oppose this because of something in Revelation. you don't say this to a Jewish or muslim or closet satanist or neo pagan or Unitarian Universalist or atheist or agnostic legislator.


Now, like I said, think real politik.

you have experience as a lawyer and a person involved in politics, in presenting arguments you don't consider worth a damn or even dislike, but that you know will sway your audience.

apply this lesson you must have learned, in this fight also.

don't care about anything but Revelation? EXCELLENT.

But most people aren't thinking like you are, especially the ones in
power. So you have to tailor arguments to fit the audience.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

you have to persuade people to fight, who don't want to fight.

you have to have arguments legislators etc. will accept, when the only argument you care about is anathema to them.

Anonymous said...

Haven't you found an Orthodox church on Mars yet Christine?

paul said...

Thanks for the lesson on how to be lukewarm as a Christian.
I get it: just leave the Bible out of the conversation because some, most ? people don't believe the Bible, so you have to try to persuade them that the mark of the beast is actually dangerous, for some other reason. That's deceitful.
The Bible is God's Word. God's Word is the Bible.
That's what the secular humanist and the atheist, and the Muslim and the satanist, etc., need to hear.
As far as "stopping it", ( the mark of the beast ), no one ever will, and the attempt is pointless and a waste of precious time.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Not really deceitful, because those ARE legitimate issues about RFID chips.

And America isn't the whole world. Daniel, which connects to Revelation, details events involving the kings of north and south, which were played out by Antiochus Epiphanes, but which were still expected by early fathers like Hippolytus to play out AGAIN later.

And it said that Moab and Ammon would escape his hand. Well, maybe some parts of America or the whole country might be another "safe zone" if you get your self righteous pompous butts in gear and work on it.

Even if antichrist is a few generations away, which Daniel 7 might indicate (of course that might play out in 20 years), persecution of Christians could still happen anyway.
and RFID certainly facilitates that.

nothing is keeping one who uses additional arguments, from adding The Bible also.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

The antichrist might be an American, might even be one who had held the office of president, but he won't appear AS antichrist and do his thing FROM America UNLESS as the regional governor so to speak of the American sector of the fourth beast empire.

And that is a distinct possibility. (if you want to play creepy scenarios.)

Daniel 7 shows four beasts. In the past interpreters treated it as a rehash of the statue dream, but that segues into Jesus First Coming, when He established The Kingdom, while the 4 beasts segue into the Second Coming, since what is described is the Last Judgement.

lion with eagle's wings - pretty obviously britain-america, the latter being the eagle's wings. These are plucked off it, and it is made to stand upright like a man and a man's heart given to it.

A serious destruction of us as an empire (which we are) and of our air and space power (wings). Possibly followed by repentance.

The bear - Russia, and the three ribs talk to it, encouraging more conquests, these would be places viewed by many as having been taken in conquest that actually sought Russia's protection and to join it and push for reestablishment of the tsarist empire and taking of Turkey and elsewhere.

Leopard with wings of a fowl - China most likely, maybe India but a country with leopards and barnyard birds as major food thing, four heads and four wings could point to the air civilian, air military, near space and deep space thing. Don't know about the four heads, but China has quietly been positioning itself in Africa, South America, Central America and Mexico, and will probably move into being a player in the Middle East, because TO BE IN PROPHECY ENOUGH TO BE NOTICEABLE, YOU HAVE TO BE A PLAYER IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

fourth beast, indescribably except for metal teeth and talons, will crush all the foregoing and out of it will come the antichrist. (probably from north africa.)

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

btw paul, why not denounce Gov. Jindal's efforts against Common Core if nothing matters because all is preordained?

fact is, the big picture is preordained, but what exact role anyone plays in it is not preordained, and some geographic zones are not explicitly described so might not be involved as much. "the whole earth" is debatable as to how precise a statement this is intended to be read as.

paul said...

Your Eschatology is completely questionable.
Prophesy is given to us by God not to play
fortune teller or predict the future, but so that when these things happen we can see them happening and give glory to God.
You seem to be looking for glory for Christina aka Justina.
For instance your parenthetical "probably from north Africa" is just wrong. It's probably from Turkey. It's probably the revived Ottoman Empire
that is right now happening with ISIS.
And Christina or Justina, your calling me lazy
is truly rich. Your calling anyone lazy is a joke, right? What do you do other than surf the web and inject long winded comments all over the place?

Common Core is a secular issue. I will continue to cheer for Governor Jindal in his likely failed attempt to stop it.

If it seems like I'm against you Christina or Justina,
it's because I am.
You are a disinformation agent and a jammer.

paul said...

_But thanks for the rehash of Hal Lyndsey's eschatology.

Anonymous said...

Constance ~ FYI

Physicists in Illinois are testing out an 'experiment' (out of a trailer, no less) the possibility that we are all living in a hologram (or holographic world)!!!'er

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Hal Lindsay's eschatology? the only thing I recall on eschatology is pre tribulation rapture nonsense I haven't read anything of his since the 1980s.

my eschatology is based strictly on Daniel. Which says, that a fourth beast arises from the sea, as do the others, and they seem to come from three different directions. The only remaining fourth direction is north africa.

the antichrist horn is one of or comes out of among the horns on this beast.

real simple.

It might be that it is a moslem empire, but I don't think it will be based in Turkey, more likely Russia will conquer Turkey.

But to be a player on the stage of prophecy, you have to be a player in the Middle East, and of the three beasts, only Britain and America so far are or have been.

Since this seques into the Second Coming, and the angel tells Daniel his visions are for the time of the end, we need to consider what PRESENT time people think when they see a bear in a political context.


Russia is poised to become a presence in the Middle East, and China will likely soon be so because of its heavy use of Iranian oil.

The beast the harlot rides has the head of a lion, the body of a leopard and the feet of a bear. Sounds like the fourth beast will be something that inherits from the other three, and right now China is expanding in Africa with all kinds of partnering and infrastructure projects and other help. We don't hear about this much, but dig through alternative news and back pages of mainstream news, and its there.

The critical crippling assumption you guys here make, is that the ten horns are a ten nation revived Roman empire. EVEN IF SO, NOT ONE SINGLE MEMBER NEED BE IN EUROPE. But Turkey could only be one of them. The eurocentric view is shortsided.

A refreshing break from this, is Walid Shoebat's Turkish antichrist theory, but I think its got problems. That doesn't mean that islam isn't dangerous and doesn't need suppressing. Go on Theodore Shoebat's facebook page and website for details on why we should take it seriously. Partner with the liberal sloppy moslems who think their version is the real thing, against the jihadis who ARE taking their religion seriously as someone put it, but don't trust them or allow proliferation of islam. People who put culture ahead of religion such as the Kurds, who don't tolerate anything in islam incompatible with their own traditions, are the sort to work with. They are fighting ISIS/ISIL now. Yes, a branch of them in Turkey played a role in the Armenian genocide, but that was a long time ago and there are Christians among them now, and several Kurdish tribal segments over different countries.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Hal Lindsay - okay, I remember now, he was one of those expecting Russian invasions as per Gog Magog.

Trouble is, Revelation shows the Gog Magog war is AFTER the Second Coming, at the end of the 1,000 years when satan is released to tempt the nations one more time, and there is a rebellion, which Jesus defeats.

Sure there might be a dry run before that, but unlikely. I'd forgotten about him pushing that.

Susanna said...

Hi Constance, 2:21 A.M.

I will equally confess that most of what I learned about Paul N. Temple, the IONS, Abraham Vereide and The Family I learned here.

I wasn't aware that you had contributed the valuable Paul N. Temple information to that Wikipedia article. Bravo!

As I pointed out in the preface to my post, my purpose in presenting those links was for the benefit of "newbies" and others who may have forgotten discussions here about transhumanism and ancillary topics on previous threads.

When I first started following this blog, my New Age research "specialty," if you want to call it that, was the occult revival of the 19th century with a special emphasis on France - because this is where I found a convergence between utopian socialism and the occult after the French Revolution vis a vis the desciples of Saint-Simonianism.

Then, there was the "old error" of Gnosticism wearing the "new label" that came to be known as the
"Traditionalist School" and its "perennialist philosophy" which directly morphed out of this 19th-century occult revival -vis a vis Rene Guenon, Frithjof Schuon and Ananda Coomaraswamy. The late Carrie Tomko was the one who fleshed out my understanding of the "Traditionalist School and what we used to call the "Right Wing" of the New Age Movement. In fact, it was Carrie who exposed Ananda Coomaraswamy's son, Rama Coomarawamy for embracing and peddling the "perennial philosophy" while presenting himself as a "traditionalist" Roman Catholic - for which such a philosophy would be anathema.. Her findings were written up in the La Fleche Report.

Between following this blog and studying the information Dorothy generously shared, I learned a lot more about what Carrie and I referred to as the "Left Wing" of the New Age Movement which is more, shall we say, "Blavatskian" insofar as it still seems to focus more on Eastern esotericism than it does on Western esotericism. But when all is said and done, most - if not all- forms of modern esotericism, whether Eastern or Western lead to H.P. Blavatsky and her mentors.

So I want to take the time here to say "THANK YOU!" to you, Dorothy, Carrie and all my other mentors and teachers
from whom I have learned so much about the New Age Movement and the menace it represents to both church and state. Thanks to you guys, I have a good background from which to base further research.

Anonymous said...

"you have to persuade people to fight, who don't want to fight.

you have to have arguments legislators etc. will accept, when the only argument you care about is anathema to them."

Christine you cannot fight your way out of a wet paper bag.

How do I know? Because you are all talk. And your talk does not match your walk. Some christian...who does more to obscure the bible-and this blog's message too-with your words words words! Oh yeah good job on keeping it real around here so that people can know good info and make informed decisions.

So are you truly interested in fighting the new age? Get out of the way of the message! But then by your words and demeanor here as the resident know-it-all, you cannot keep yourself from making yourself an issue can you?

Paul has you pegged.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Constance, you mentioned that Abraham Vereide calls himself Abram also. Did he change his name, legally or by usage, from Abraham to Abram?

This might be significant, if he went from Abraham to Abram. Though I suppose he could argue that being the fountainhead of a movement he was too like Abraham and needed to curtail his ego, so took the lesser original name, which in itself would be throwing the focus on himself as fountainhead of the new order in Christianity so to speak,

BUT he might also be kind of rejecting God in a way, moving from the name God gave Abram to the original name.

Susanna said...

Constance 11:43,

Dorothy and I are very familiar with Savitri Devi, who has been dubbed "Hitler's Priestess."

I would highly recommend the book by that title by the late British historian Nicholas Goodricke Clarke.


Hitler's Priestess: Savitri Devi, the Hindu-Aryan Myth, and Neo-Nazism
by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke (Author)

In this window onto the roots and evolution of international neo-Nazism, Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke reveals the powerful impact of one of fascism's most creative minds.

Savitri Devi's influence on neo-Nazism and other hybrid strains of mystical fascism has been continuos since the mid-1960s. A Frenchwoman of Greek-English birth, Devi became an admirer of German National Socialism in the late 1920s. Deeply impressed by its racial heritage and caste-system, she emigrated to India, where she developed her racial ideology, in the early 1930s. Her works have been reissued and distributed through various neo-Nazi networks and she has been lionized as a foremother of Nazi ideology. Her appeal to neo-Nazi sects lies in the very eccentricity of her thought - combining Aryan supremacism and anti-Semitism with Hinduism, social Darwinisn, animal rights, and a fundamentally biocentric view of life - and has resulted in curious, yet potent alliances in radical ideology.

As one of the earliest Holocaust deniers and the first to suggest that Adolf Hitler was an avatar-- a god come to earth in human form to restore the world to a golden age - Devi became a fixture in the shadowy neo-Nazi world. In Hitler's Priestess, Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke examines how someone with so little tangible connection to Nazi Germany became such a powerful advocate of Hitler's misanthropy.

Hitler's Priestess illuminates the life of a woman who achieved the status of a prophetess for her penchant for redirecting authentic religious energies in the service of regenerate fascism.

I have all of Nicholas Goodrick Clarke's books on the occult and the Third Reich. He has been involved with programs for the History channel and has also written a book about H.P. Blavatsky which I have


Greek writer Savitri Devi was the first major post-war exponent of what has since become known as Esoteric Hitlerism.[1] According to that ideology, subsequent to the fall of the Third Reich and Hitler's suicide at the end of the war, Hitler himself could be deified. Devi connected Hitler's Aryanist ideology to that of the pan-Hindu part of the Indian Independence movement,[2] and activists such as Subhas Chandra Bose. For her, the swastika was an especially important symbol, as she felt it symbolized Aryan unity of Hindus and Germans.

Savitri Devi, above all, was interested in the Indian caste system, which she regarded as the archetype of racial laws intended to govern the segregation of different races and to maintain the pure blood of the fair-complexioned Aryans. She regarded the survival of the light-skinned minority of Brahmans among an enormous population of many different Indian races after sixty centuries as a living tribute to the value of the Aryan caste system (Goodrick-Clarke, Black Sun, p. 92).


Susanna said...



Miguel Serrano (10 September 1917 – 28 February 2009) was a Chilean diplomat, explorer, and author of poetry, books on spiritual questing and Esoteric Hitlerism. Serrano's anti-modernist neo-Gnostic philosophy claims to elucidate the extraterrestrial origin of the Hyperborean-descended Aryan race, image-bearers of the Godhead, and postulates a global conspiracy against them by an evil inferior godlet: The Demiurge, worshipped by the Jewish people, lord of planet Earth, spawner of the primitive hominid stocks, and author of all base materiality.

Serrano foremostly synthesized the Hindu-Vedic and Nordic-Germanic religious traditions, both of which he considered to be of ancient Aryan-Hyperborean provenance, in addition to particularly esoteric and racialist interpretations of Buddhism, Christianity (or "Kristianism"), Luciferianism (not to be confused with Satanism), and Gnosticism. He is especially indebted to the Jungian theory of collective racial archetypes, borrowed heavily from Julius Evola in supporting a spiritual consideration of race, as opposed to a solely biological one, and followed Savitri Devi in recognizing Adolf Hitler as an avatar (a divine incarnation) who battled against the demonic materialistic hosts of the Kali Yuga........

.....During his ambassadorial postings in Vienna and subsequently in Switzerland, Serrano contacted and cultivated ties of friendship with Léon Degrelle, Otto Skorzeny, Hans-Ulrich Rudel, Marc "Saint-Loup" Augier and Hanna Reitsch. He paid visits to Julius Evola, Herman Wirth, Wilhelm Landig and Ezra Pound entire article....

One rather sinister character who was involved with the "Traditionalist School" and was said to be involved with black magick was Julius Evola. He also influenced Savitri Devi. This article is a must-read.

Barone Giulio Cesare Andrea Evola (Italian: [ˈɛːvola];[1] May 19, 1898 – June 11, 1974) also known as Julius Evola, was an Italian philosopher and esotericist. Evola regarded his perspectives and spiritual values as aristocratic, masculine, traditionalist, heroic and defiantly reactionary.

Evola believed that mankind is living in the Kali Yuga, a Dark Age of unleashed materialistic appetites, spiritual oblivion and organised deviancy. To counter this and call in a primordial rebirth, Evola presented his world of Tradition. The core trilogy of Evola's works are generally regarded as Revolt Against the Modern World, Men Among the Ruins and Ride the Tiger. According to one scholar, "Evola’s thought can be considered one of the most radically and consistently antiegalitarian, antiliberal, antidemocratic, and antipopular systems in the twentieth century."[2] Much of Evola's theories and writings is centred on Evola's own idiosyncratic spiritualism and mysticism; the inner life. The philosophy covered themes such as Hermeticism, the metaphysics of war and of sex, Tantra, Buddhism, Taoism, mountaineering, the Holy Grail, the essence and history of civilisations, decadence and various philosophic and religious Traditions dealing with both the Classics and the Orient.....


Susanna said...


.....Entry into esotericism

Around 1920, his interests led him into spiritual, transcendental and "supra-rational" studies. He began reading various esoteric texts and gradually delved deeper into the occult, alchemy, magic, and Oriental studies, particularly Tibetan Lamaism and Vajrayanist tantric yoga. He had also experimented with hallucinogenic drugs to experience altered states of consciousness during this period, but later came to criticize such drugs in Ride the Tiger, as he did not consider stimulation as a means to transcendence.

In 1927, along with other Italian esotericists, he founded the Gruppo di Ur. The group's aim was to provide a "soul" to the burgeoning Fascist movement of the time through the revival of an ancient Roman Paganism.....

....Evola and the SS[edit]

"But in spite of all these negative aspects, there was something in National Socialism that attracted Evola: the concept of a state ruled by an Order, which he felt was embodied by the SS. 'We are inclined to the opinion that we can see the nucleus of an Order in the higher sense of tradition in the 'Black Corps,' he wrote in Vita Italiana (August 15, 1938). Again in Vita Italiana (August 1941), 'Per una profonda alleanza italo-germanica'[11] he writes: 'Beyond the confines of the party and of any political-administrative structure, an elite in the form of a new 'Order'—that is, a kind of ascetic-military organization that is held together by the principles of 'loyalty' and 'honor,' must form the basis of the new state.' As mentioned, Evola held the SS, which Himmler strove to design according to the model of the Teutonic Order, to be this elite........
....Evola's writings have continued to have an influence both within occult intellectual circles and in European far-right politics. He is widely translated in French, Spanish and partly in German. Amongst those he has influenced are Miguel Serrano, Savitri Devi, GRECE, the Movimento sociale italiano (MSI), Falange Española, Gaston Armand Amaudruz's Nouvel Ordre Européen, Guillaume Faye, Pino Rauti's Ordine Nuovo, Troy Southgate, Alain de Benoist, Michael Moynihan, Giorgio Freda, the Nuclei Armati Rivoluzionari (Armed Revolutionary Nuclei) and Forza Nuova. Famed author Herman Hesse was an admirer of Evola, calling him "A very dazzling and interesting, but also very dangerous author". Giorgio Almirante referred to him as "our Marcuse—only better."[78] According to one leader of the neofascist "black terrorist" Ordine Nuovo, "Our work since 1953 has been to transpose Evola’s teachings into direct political action."[79] The now defunct French fascist group Troisième Voie was also inspired by Evola.[80] Jonathan Bowden, English political activist and chairman of the New Right, has spoken highly of Evola and his ideas and has given lectures on his philosophy. German psychotherapist Karlfried Graf Dürckheim based part of his "initiatory therapy" on Evola's work.[81]

Evola's work heavily influences Thomas Steiner, the German entire article.....

TLC said...


I see you are consistently harsh with Christina and I'm not faulting you for disagreeing with her but, you seem to play both sides.

I agree with many of your views on God's Word, but you don't seem to treat all the same. I would like to see you apply the same zeal to some of your catholic friends here when it comes to following God's WRITTEN WORD and not TAMPERING with or adding to.

And I was a catholic for the first 30 years of my life, living and breathing it from the time I was old enough to speak as well as being involved in any church activities that a young male could possibly be involved with by attending catholic school and serving as an altar boy for MANY years starting at a very young age. Most if my family is still catholic and I know MANY Catholics who are fine people that live a more pious life than I. I say this because I do not need anyone here to tell me what it means to be catholic, or how I don't understand how the catholic religion works. I KNOW VERY WELL how it works and my problem is mainly with the hierarchy.

I would find you much more genuine if you applied the same critiques to others as you do Christina.

TLC said...

I think the anti-christ is already here and I don't believe he is Turkish.

I don't know who it is and would not be shocked if he arose from the ME as the eastern leg of the Roman Empire stretched beyond these areas.

I still wonder if he will have some Jewish blood and am fascinated by the view that he may come from the line of the tribe of Dan. Who knows??

Anonymous said...


Everyone is equal here at Constance's blog. Some are more equal than others.

Anonymous said...

"Physicists in Illinois are testing out an 'experiment' (out of a trailer, no less) the possibility that we are all living in a hologram (or holographic world)!!!"

That is a deeply irresponsible way of phrasing what they are actually testing, which is whether space (and time) is a continuum or is discrete on a fine enough scale. It's a valid thing to test - just look at a pointilliste painting from far away and close-up - and there are technical analogues with holograms; but this description of it is whizzed up for publicity, which I regret.


Anonymous said...


The Vatican has received letters from sisters in LCWR communities. expressing their distress at the direction in which their leadership is going.

This is good news. It dispels the myth that the LCWR speaks for all it's members.

The facts are that less than 3% of women religious are superiors in the LCWR.

Most no longer have a say, because superiors have been elected other superiors, in violation of their community's constitutions.

Susanna said...

Esoteric Hitlerism or Esoteric Nazism

During the era of the Third Reich, Hitler was already being perceived as the newman, the coming messiah. This is a ‘catechism’ produced by Heinrich Himmler for his ‘elite’

SS:Question: Why do we believe in Germany and the Führer?

Answer: Because we believe in God, we believe in Germany, which He created in His world, and in the Führer Adolf Hitler whom He has sent us.

And, after the Nazi ascent to power, this is from a radio speech by a pastor in 1933 where Hitler is acclaimed as the manifestation of a divine mission:The moment the Volksgeist
is considered to be a metaphysical entity,the Führer who embodies theGeist
assumes as religious function,in the literal sense of that expression. He is the Messiah, and with his appearance the ultimate hope of every individual begins to come true, and the Kingdom that he necessarily brings with him is close to the eternal Kingdom.

In the final decades of the twentieth century new types of religious categories emerged to challenge established orders of belief systems. Mattias Gardell summarised them as: 1.The New Age scene – a “constantly transforming” and eclectic mix of belief systems. 2.Hierarchical sects or cults with a missionary status. 3.Pagan groups seeking to reconstruct “premodern pagan traditions” and without a proselytising culture.

It is within these emergent milieus that (often) highly secretive, esoteric and racist groupings have formed who venerate the icons of National Socialism and the Hitler image in particular. These traditions have materialised from the older current that did not disappear after the fall of the Third Reich in 1945. Often necessarily hidden, groups proclaiming the divine nature of Adolf Hitler continue to exist and indeed in some circumstance to await the return of their avatar –Adolf Hitler. Esoteric Hitlerism as such was heralded by two main figures post-1945 namely Savitri Devi (1905-1982) and one time Chilean diplomat Miguel Serrano (1917-2009). Each in their way proclaimed a new faith where Hitler was far more than earthly pedagogue, each proclaimed him an Avatar.


Susanna said...


Savitri Devi was born in 1905 as Maximiani Portas to a Greek-Italian father and English mother. She moved to India in her twenties to what she imagined was the cradle of the Aryan race. After 1945 she travelled to allied-occupied Germany, by then a committed Hitlerist, and illegally spread pro-Nazi propaganda for which she was apprehended and gaoled. According to Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke, Devi,“transformed the negative attributes of Nazism into a religious cult of cosmicsignificance.”

Her writing output proclaimed the new faith and contributed to a transformation of the Hitler of history into a messianic avatar with Nazism as his holy cult. Blending Ariosophist ideas with Hindu mythology she asserted that Hitler had been sent as the last incarnation of Vishnu. That Hitler might indeed be an avatar stems from the belief postulated in the Bhāgavata-purāna whereby humans can become ‘avatāras’ by a divine infilling.

Serrano was a Chilean writer and diplomat born in 1917. He came to similar conclusions as Devi. He stated in an interview in 1995:For me Esoteric Hitlerism is being possessed by the archetype of the collective unconscious which the Greeks used to call Gods That means a new/old religion…Its central drama is the apparition on this earth of the Person of Adolf Hitler, the last Avatara who came to produce this enormous storm or catastrophe in order to awake all those who are asleep and to open the New Age which will come afterthe Deluge. Echoing these ideas American Nazi Party ideologue George Lincoln Rockwellstated in a 1960’s television interview that he believed Hitler to be more than amerely political figure:

Question: Commander Rockwell do you model yourself on Hitler?

Answer: I would say Hitler was the Second Coming of Christ…I thinkHitler was a gift from providence. I think he was so far above anythingthat I’ll be able to accomplish that it is almost sacrilegious for me to speak of myself in the same terms with Hitler.

Rockwell became an associate of Devi and maintained a Hitler shrine at American Nazi Party headquarters. Rockwell’s successor Matt Koehl was even more emphatic. He stated: Just before His immolation the Leader [Adolf Hitler] uttered these fateful words: ‘It is necessary that I should die for my people; but my Spirit will rise from the grave, and the world will know that I was right’…Yes, our immortal Leader…has risen from the grave. He lives! We sense it; we recognise it…This is the spiritual dynamic of our time. This is the good news of the age.

This quote is from the New Order website (2009): What we are fighting for is a new and higher order of things. And here it must be understood that what we are doing is nothing less than the work of the Almighty. Our Cause—the Cause of Adolf Hitler—is the Cause of God.

The various underground neo-Nazi movements that have emerged post-1945 include elements which proclaim Devi and Serrano’s hypotheses as revelatory. Often necessarily secretive, new generations have developed a cross pollination of original and historical notions that includes New Age ideas, ecological politics, a questioning of identity and a revulsion for capitalism. Within this scene there are those who proclaim the divinity of Adolf Hitler and a conspiracy fuelled rejection of modern mores.


Susanna said...


The influence of the ideas of Devi and Serrano on a spiritual belief path encompassing the divinity of Hitler is broad. It ranges from Nazi-Satanism through to neo-paganism. Although it would be inherently incorrect to equate all of these groups with racism, there is a significant aspect of the neo-pagan scene(particularly in the United States) that equates Hitler with the emanation of the Völkisch archetype of Wotan. Indeed this is what the psychologist Carl Jung indicated in his essay of the same name (1936). In this essay Jung suggests that Hitler was possessed by the Wotan archetype. Secretive Nazi-Satanic cults include the Order of the Nine Angles (ONA), the Ordo Sinistra Vivendi and the Black Order. According to David Myatt founder of the ONA: Adolf Hitler and his movement seemed to embody some of the ideals I believed magick should achieve – they seemed to represent a Satanic spirit, an urge to conquer, discover and extend…a zestful, life-enhancing character, a dynamism and charisma.

Embracing social-Darwinism and Nietzschean self-overcoming the ONA’s Satanic mass included an invocation of Adolf Hitler and allegedly human sacrifice.

Anonymous said...

"We are becoming godlike co-creators with the divine", so says Barbara Marx Hubbard in this video published a fortnight ago titled: ROBOTICS AND COMPUTING AND HUMAN EVOLUTION.

A timely interview with B Marx Hubbard considering the discussion on technologies/chips/ starships ,etc.

She is hell bent on humans creating a whole other species, an upgrade of our current selves using technology. This means of course, that like God, we too are creators but this won't be in his image, will it?

From Oz

Susanna said...

Among Miguel Serrano's friends that he made in the course of his travels was Otto Skorzeny. Savitri Devi was also an associate of Otto Skorzeny and in 1961 she even stayed with Otto Skorzeny as his guest in Madrid - which begs the question as to her possible involvement in helping war criminals escape to freedom.

After Skorzeny escaped from an allied prison camp on July 27, 1948, he "settled in Spain with a passport granted by its leader, Francisco Franco, and resumed his prewar occupation as an engineer. In 1952, he was declared entnazifiziert (denazified) in absentia by a German government arbitration board, which let him travel abroad. Before the declaration, he could have been interned in Germany or Austria until he had convinced the authorities that he had seen the error of his beliefs.

From 1959-1969 he lived in Ireland where he bought Martinstown House, a 200 acre farm in County Kildare.

Protected by Franco, Otto Skorzeny was a key figure in the never existing organization of the secret escape network ODESSA. According to the Spanish newspaper El Mundo, he was a key figure in organizing one of ODESSA's largest bases, which was allegedly located in Spain.

He also founded the Paladin Group in 1970, a neo-fascist organisation which gathered former French members of the OAS, of the SAC, etc., and considered it the spearhead of the anti-Communist struggle. Later, he worked as a consultant to the Egyptian President Gamel Abdel Nasser and the Argentine President Juan Peron.

The Paldin Group was reputed to have provided personnel for José López Rega's notorious Argentine Anti-Communist Alliance death squad. Rega who was formerly a police corporal, became Minister of Social Welfare under Peron and was a friend of Skorzeny. Rega was known as El Brujo ("the Sorcerer") and the Argentine Evola, in reference to fascist esotericist Julius Evola.


Skorzeny not only served as advisor to Juan Peron but he also served as bodyguard to Eva Peron "while fostering an ambition for the "Fourth Reich" centered in Latin America."

Moreover, it was Skorzeny who was entrusted with the responsibility of bringing Evita Peron's carefully preserved corpse back to Argentina for burial after the death of her husband.

Here is a very interesting account about the level of Peron's interest in the occult - which seemed to intensify after his first political downfall.

After his downfall, Peron wandered in jet-age exile across Latin America and the Caribbean. He was the guest of Venezuela, Panama and the Dominican Republic.

During his Panamanian sojourn, Peron's "Latin playboy lifestyle" led his chauffeur to arrange for Joe Cuba's touring cabaret dance troupe to entertain at a Christmas party where Peron was the guest of honor.

One of the dancers was a beautiful 24-year-old Argentine, called Isabel. She and Peron met at the party and immediately hit it off. The pair shared not only an Argentine background but a strong interest in the occult. Isabel had lived for 10 years as a housekeeper for a family of professional spirit healers.


Susanna said...


Within three weeks, the couple was living together, as Peron continued his wandering exile through the Caribbean. Isabel then went with Peron to Spain where he settled under the protection of far-right dictator, Gen. Francisco Franco. On Nov. 15, 1961, Juan and Isabel married, though Peron was ineligible for the church sacrament.

In 1964, Isabel Peron began the slow process of Peron's rehabilitation. She returned to Argentina on an official visit as Peron's emissary, testing the political waters.

Jose Lopez Rega, then a police corporal, finagled a personal introduction, according to Peron biographer Joseph Page. Lopez Rega apparently had served as a bodyguard for Peron when he was Argentine president. Lopez Rega's favorite photo showed him riding on the running board of Peron's limousine.

After the meeting, Isabel hired Lopez Rega as a valet and secretary. He accompanied her on the rest of her three-month visit to Argentina. When Isabel returned to Spain, Lopez Rega left his wife and daughter to go, too.

Like the Perons, Lopez Rega was fascinated by the occult. With flinty blue eyes and a hawkish profile, Lopez Rega fit the image of his self-proclaimed status as a wizard. He divined astrological charts and authored 11 volumes on the supernatural. He also possessed a dark charisma with a temperament that was described by other Peron cronies as devious, ruthless and egomaniacal.

Besides his occult interests, Lopez Rega was deeply pro-fascist, a follower of reactionary philosophers such as Charles Maurras, Walther Darre and Jordan Genta. Lopez Rega's political views were typical of Argentine right-wing thought and gave him entrée to the neo-fascist circles of Europe.

In Madrid, Lopez Rega built ties to the old fascist network of Nazi SS Col. Otto Skorzeny, a Hitler loyalist known as "Scarface" from a dueling wound. The dashing Skorzeny had been a central figure in protecting fugitive Nazi war criminals and developing a new generation of neo-fascists.

U.S. Army intelligence documents identified Skorzeny as a leader of the Nazi's legendary ODESSA network, the underground organization of SS veterans that helped resettle Nazis in the Peron's Argentina and other countries. [For details on Skorzeny, see Martin Lee's The Beast Reawakens.]

By the early 1970s, Lopez Rega also was holding conversations with neo-fascist terrorist Stefano delle Chiaie, who had moved to Madrid after an aborted right-wing coup plot in Italy in 1970. With Skorzeny's blessing, delle Chiaie worked to build the new international neo-fascist movement.

During the years in Madrid, Lopez Rega also had made himself indispensable to his patrons, the Perons. Aging quickly, Peron suffered from a variety of ailments: a liver cyst, hardening of the arteries and prostate problems.

Lopez Rega nursed Peron and practiced his occult arts of healing. On one occasion, Lopez Rega was overheard boasting how Peron had once died and was brought back to life by Lopez Rega's magical powers.

Lopez Rega worked his way deeper into Peron's good graces by helping arrange the return of Eva Peron's carefully preserved corpse. To deny Peron's followers an emotional rallying point inside Argentina in the 1950s, the post-Peron government had secretly shipped Eva's body to a cemetery in Milan, Italy.

On Sept. 23, 1971, Eva's remains were transported from Italy to Spain where they were turned over to Peron. Later, Lopez Rega moved the body to a second floor room at Peron's house and ordered Isabel to lie on the coffin. Amid burning candles, Lopez Rega reportedly performed rituals to transfer Eva's spiritual essence into Isabel.

Susanna said...

Dear OZ,

Re:She is hell bent on humans creating a whole other species, an upgrade of our current selves using technology. This means of course, that like God, we too are creators but this won't be in his image, will it?

Barbara Marx Hubbard is reportedly an agnostic. Therefore, it is unlikely that she believes in life after death according to the Judeo-Christian tradition.

If so, "technological immortality" may be all that's left for Barbara who looks like she is getting a little long in the tooth....and imagine her "prayers" consisting of "Beam me up, Scottie!!!!"

Anonymous said...

Wondering if Scotty can beam down as well as up !

From Oz

Susanna said...

Dear Physicist 5:49

Re:"Physicists in Illinois are testing out an 'experiment' (out of a trailer, no less) the possibility that we are all living in a hologram (or holographic world)!!!"

I saw something about this recently, but I haven't yet had time to look into it. Here is an article from New Scientist.

Experiment tests whether universe is a hologram

Craig Hogan is the one who dreamed up the experiment.


In some ways, this hologram theory sounds similar to the ancient "atomist theory."


Hogan wrote a paper entitled
NOW BROADCASTING IN PLANCK DEFINITION ( a reference to pixelation of High definition television.)

The paper is embedded here at the end of the article.


By the way, there is an interesting novel out about Fermilab where the "holometer" is being built. DARPA plays a significant role.

Fermilab: Forging The Keys To Hell
9Paperback – February 1, 2011)

by Randy Benjamin

Here is a passae from the blurb.

Here then are the events as they unfolded, as Tim Collins recorded them before the demons were unleashed and the darkness fell. 1st Corinthians 1:19 “For it is written. I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

Talk about timely!!!!

Susanna said...

OZ 9:06

LOL You mean to a place of great heat?

Susanna said...

One more thing about Nazism.

Today is the 75th anniversary of the beginning of World War II

On this day, 75 years ago, the bloodiest war in human history broke out when Nazi Germany, fresh off of signing a nonaggression pact with the Soviet Union, invaded Poland. Though two years would pass before the United States entered the war, the conflict would profoundly change the American role in the world.

Craig said...

Susanna (and Oz):

Re: your comment about Marx Hubbard reportedly being agnostic: I was puzzled by your comment, as I have a few of her books in which she describes us as (potentially) "co-creators," with the Divine (however she conceives of the divine). I believe I see where you may have got that impression, since on wiki there's verbiage stating she's a "Jewish agnostic." However, a somewhat recent interview clarifies things:

Well, I happen to be Christ-inspired in just about everything I’ve ever done. I come from an agnostic Jewish background, so I got no religion as a child. My life was guided by questions. I [was inspired by] Teilhard de Chardin in his idea of the Christification of the Earth and the linking up of humanity to create greater goodness. When I realized that the story of the birth of Jesus is comparable to the story of the birth of humanity as a co-creative, co-evolving species, I had an experience of the inner Christ — [Divine] love combined with science and technology could actually lead to the changing of the world for good. I therefore have become inspired by an evolutionary experience of the Christ as the emerging potential of humanity.

...[T]he Divine love within you becomes so incarnated that you are empowered by that love to act as a co-creator with that Divine.

This is pretty much what she states in the books I have.

Craig said...

...and I see now that Constance added a comment to the interview.

Susanna said...


That Barbara Marx Hubbard is an agnostic was exactly the impression I got from the Wiki article. But it would probably be more accurate to say that she is a gnostic as opposed to agnostic......vis a vis her belief in "conscious evolution" which had its modern origins with Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

In his address to the LCWR, Cardinal Müller rightly identifies conscious evolution as gnosticism.

Gnosticism was a similarly vague collection of religious ideas, occult practices, arcane beliefs, and secret societies that existed in the early centuries of the church. In various ways the gnostics initiated neophytes into exclusive societies offering levels of specialized knowledge that would help them ascend to a higher form of consciousness, a more exalted state of being or a state of divine awareness.

Cardinal Muller also points out in his April 30, 2014 address to the LCWR:

Again, I apologize if this seems blunt, but what I must say is too important to dress up in flowery language. The fundamental theses of Conscious Evolution are opposed to Christian Revelation and, when taken unreflectively, lead almost necessarily to fundamental errors regarding the omnipotence of God, the Incarnation of Christ, the reality of Original Sin, the necessity of salvation and the definitive nature of the salvific action of Christ in the Paschal Mystery…

I do not think I overstate the point when I say that the futuristic ideas advanced by the proponents of Conscious Evolution are not actually new. The Gnostic tradition is filled with similar affirmations and we have seen again and again in the history of the Church the tragic results of partaking of this bitter fruit.

When all is said and done I do not take issue with Barbara Marx Hubbard choosing to believe in conscious evolution per se. But I do take issue with her trying to pass it of as something that is compatible with Christianity
even though she knows that Pierre Teilhard de Chardin was censured and silenced by the Catholic Church for the very teachings she is now promoting.

But even more blameworthy are those who invited her to speak at their gathering.

LIZ said...

MK Ultra FOR EVERYONE, It's the Brave New World!!

Susanna said...

P.S. Craig,

Barbara Marx Hubbard was also a disciple of Sri Aurobindo - a close spiritual collaborator with Mirra Alfassa, also known as "the Mother" Alfassa was a disciple of the occultist Max Theon and claimed in "THE AGENDA" that Helena Petrovna Blavatsky learned occultism from Max Theon.

As part of her life story, Barbara Marx Hubbard writes:

Then I read Sri Aurobindo's great work, The Life Divine. He was the great Indian sage that fixed evolutionary consciousness within me. I realized that what he called the Consciousness Force is the dynamic, progressive aspect of God, or the supramental intelligence of the universe, leading to a new kind of human, a gnostic human, he called it. He saw that "man is a transitional species."

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

infrasound obviously has potential

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Constance, for $9.99 a month you can subscribe to kindle unlimited and read anything kindle has for free.

(hmmm. amazon really yanked the rug out from under its kindle publishing clients, didn't it?)

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

the one big problem everyone falls for, is that the antichrist is around the corner and we're all gonna die now and prophecy this and misapplication that.


even if you have to ignore some details or even invent some to make it fit.

A stopped clock is right twice a day, and maybe FOR ONCE we are moving up to the last of the end times, but this has been the hue and cry for centuries if not longer.

And if you can figure no way is this that time now, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to fight things that are wrong anyway.

paul said...

Thank you for your measured, mature criticism
of my responses to Christine, which aren't always measured or mature.
You probably don't remember a few years ago when I could be found in these pages railing about Catholic things that I disagreed with. Oh yeah. I was quite adamant about all the things I had gleaned from the many anti Catholic websites that I was checking out at that time. I grew up in the Catholic Church myself; Catechism school in the summer and Confirmation, et all.
I guess my response is that as soon as some Catholics come in here and start jamming these pages with two parts Christianity and three parts pure chakras, men on Mars, homemade demonology, including special concoctions and mantras to drive them away, etc etc etc, then I will
rip into those people too.
The Roman Catholics recite the Apostles Creed every week in church. We Methodists recite the same creed, all together every week. If some people in the church aren't listening or considering
the words of the creed, that's their problem.
I agree with you wholeheartedly that the grievous
errors are in the hierarchy. They say that this is the first Jesuit Pope. I find that scary.
But if you want to ask who the antichrist is, it's Islam, in my opinion. Maybe it's too easy to discern and we expect it to be difficult, I don't know.
If I had more time this morning I'd probably get long winded but I've got to go to work.
I just want to say that Susanna posts copious links
and she's a true Roman Catholic, but everything she posts is relevant to not only the blog in general but the thread at hand as well.
Plus, she charming, beautiful and brilliant. What's not to like?

Anonymous said...

True, but Lucifer was charming, beautiful, and brilliant!

TLC said...


I agree with much of what you said and I cannot fault you for your opinion.

My problem is that many of the beliefs in which I was raised, purgatory, praying to saints, the whole Mary thing and many more, are to me, every bit as out there as "jamming these pages with two parts Christianity and three parts pure chakras, men on Mars, homemade demonology, including special concoctions and mantras to drive them away".

It took me 30 years to figure that out and I think all one needs to do is read the Word with an open heart and not rely on other interpretations and it becomes quite obvious. Just citing the same creed or a creed of beliefs that verbally affirms, is just not enough. As I've said before, even demons recognize the power and divinity of Jesus. So, I think for me, it's more about preaching a "different" Jesus than verbal affirmations.

In NO WAY do I wish to incite any bashing of anyone's denomination nor offend Susanna or any other Catholics here as I myself lived it.

I know that debate has been done to death here and it is not my desire to engage in it again, nor will I participate in any bashing that may follow.

I just wanted you to know where I'm coming from.

Anonymous said...

Christine, why do you feel the need to blog-hog and get all New-Age here? Your views on chakras, men on Mars and witch's brews make you sound more like David Ike aka Barb Marx Hubbard than EO's very own Seraphim Rose!

It's a pity your gnostic pride is nudging you further towards the pit daily! Lay down your fantasies, stop your occultish dabblings, get prayer and pick up your cross!

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

my so called new age stuff is very anti new age and uses its own stuff against it. such reality as exists that new age exploits is shown to be different than they think.

my book is written targetting those who do not for the most part believe in Jesus Christ as Lord, or do so with the proviso that He has to fit their sci fi and closet racist satan seed etc. agenda.

do not expect it to make you feel comfortable, it is not for you. But it makes a strong case for Jesus and against those who try to dismiss Him as an alien hybrid transgenic or God knows what instead of God the Second Person of The Holy Trinity Incarnate, and works any possible alien life into a 6 day creation scenario with all life originating on earth.

I have mentioned the latter before. Why that should bother you I have no idea.

precisely these ideas ARE being floated by New Agers who get on the alien bandwagon, along with aliens as our creators and even the creators of all our religions including Judaism and Christianity. This is of course totally false.

And if aliens exist as strictly physical beings, they didn't engineer us, we (or our mad scientist ancestors) engineered them, read the mantis DNA to insectify a human with comment I made a while back, in context of DARPA plans to make supersoldiers.

Susanna said...

The Doctrine of ESOTERIC HITLERISM (a Booklet) – Miguel Serrano
Posted by Jason Alfred Thompkins in Other

Excerpts from EL CORDON DORADO – HITLERISMO ESOTERICA, ADOLF HITLER, EL ULTIMO AVATARA, “MANU” – POR EL HOMBRE QUE VENDRA, the Holy Trilogy of Esoteric Hitlerism, Esoteric Kristianism and Hyperborean Initiation as written and dictated by Miguel Serrano

The Doctrine of Esoteric Hitlerism – a Booklet

Susanna said...

For anyone who thinks Miguel Serrano is irrelevant, the following is from just a few days ago!

LONDON FORUM: Norman Lowell - Miguel Serrano: Warrior & Visionary of The Spirit’ ~ August 30th 2014


Book Review:

Adolf Hitler The Ultimate Avatar
By Miguel Serrano


Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Susanna said...

The following has to do with IMPERIUM EUROPA - a.k.a. "The Fourth Reich."

IMPERIUM EUROPA ( Official Website)

The following 2008 article is from the website of the illustrious white supremacist Dr. David Duke.

Imperium Europa Leader Norman Lowell is Censored on the Sacred Island of Melita – He will Appeal

April 11, 2008



Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

all early feminists were anti abortion links to pdf files of articles they wrote or were quoted in

Susanna said...

The following is a gold mine if information on Esoteric Hitlerism and Serrano's thought.


Adolph Hitler the Ultimate Avatar
By Miguel Serrano

Susanna said...

Savitri Devi influenced such leading figures of post-war National Socialism as George Lincoln Rockwell, Colin Jordan, William Pierce, and Miguel Serrano.

Colin Jordan was mentor to David Myatt in the UK.

During the 1960's Savitri Devi began a correspondence with Colin Jordan and became a devoted supporter of his organization the National Socialist Movement.

David Myatt joined Jordan's movement in 1968 and served as Jordan's bodyguard. Myatt also established relationships with Neo-Nazi satanists.

(Savitri Devi) died in 1982 in Sible Hedingham, Essex, England at her friend Muriel Gantry's house; the cause of death was recorded as myocardial infarction and coronary thrombosis. She was en route to lecture in America at the invitation of Matt Koehl at the time.

Her ashes were sent to the National Socialist White People's Party shrine in Arlington, Virginia where they were placed next to those of George Lincoln Rockwell.


Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

David Myatt started the Order of Nine Angles, which openly advocated human sacrifice (the sort whose targets or "opfers" are unpleasant nasty mean degenerate and/or cowardly people no one likes anyway, but just wait till they get around to everyone else).

Last heard from, he'd converted to islam, which doesn't say much about islam. I think it is the warrior ethic that attracted him.

Also seems to be the origin of the idea, that the ideal political unit should be no larger than San Marino, a left over medieval city state in the Italian peninsula, with around 27,000 expats and 25,000 residents or vice versa. Very libertarian and small govt. type idea, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

"my book is written targetting those who do not... believe in Jesus Christ as Lord... it makes a strong case for Jesus and against those who try to dismiss Him as an alien hybrid transgenic"

If that becomes a significant heresy facing the church, I might read it. Meanwhile let us do our best against today's Arians who call him "just a great moral teacher", or outright secularists, or Muslims. There appear to be more of those. (Unless Martians have learnt the secret of invisibility, of course.)

When we find unambiguous ruins on Mars would be another time to rethink. Don't hold your breath.

Anonymous said...

"David Myatt started the Order of Nine Angles, which openly advocated human sacrifice... Last heard from, he'd converted to islam, which doesn't say much about islam. I think it is the warrior ethic that attracted him."

It certainly attracted Hitler. There are well-sources tales that he regretted the victory of Charles Martel, king of the Franks, over Muslim forces at the Battle of Tours in AD732 - the battle that pushed Islam back over the Pyrenees and, centuries later, back across the Strait of Gibraltar to Africa. Hitler commented to the effect that Christianity was for wimps and that Islam with its martial spirit was better suited to the Germans.

A man who thinks you can choose your religion for expedient reasons really is secular. I do not dispute that he had contact with the occult, and that it influenced him for the worse - it means "hidden", after all - but at core he was a simple racist.

Susanna said...

Hitler was allied to the grand Mufti of Jerusalem Hajj Amin al- Husseini.

Soon after Hitler was appointed German Chancellor in 1933, the German Consul-General in Palestine, Heinrich Wolff, expressed his belief that many Muslims in the Holy Land would be supportive of the new Nazi regime. This view was confirmed when Wolff met with al-Husseini and other radical local leaders. For al-Husseini, the anti-Jewish policies of the Nazis were appealing, and he hoped for German help in ousting the British from Palestine.....


Another Muslim country that was sympathetic to Hitler was Iran which was then still known as Persia.

Many people are not aware of this, but Persians/Iranians are not true Arabs. The Proto-Indo-Iranians are commonly identified with the descendants of the Proto-Indo-Europeans.

By the early 1930s, Reza Pahlavi's close ties with Nazi Germany began worrying the Allied states. Germany's modern state and economy highly impressed the Shah, and there were hundreds of Germans involved in every aspect of the state, from setting up factories to building roads, railroads and bridges.

The Shah went on to ask the international community to use the native name of "Iran" in 1935 to address to his country, which in Persian means 'Land of the Aryans' and refers to Airyanem Vaejah, the Avestan name of the original homeland of the Aryans. Although the country has been known as Iran to the native people themselves for many centuries, Westerners came to know the nation as Persia through Ancient Greek accounts. Iranians were immune to the racial Nuremberg Laws on the grounds that they were pure blooded Aryans. In 1939, Nazi Germany provided Iran with what they called a Germany Scientific Library. The library contained over 7500 books selected "to convince Iranian readers ... of the kinship between the National Socialist Reich and the Aryan culture of Iran". In various pro-Nazi publications, lectures, speeches, and ceremonies, parallels were drawn between the Shah of Iran and Hitler, and praise the charisma and virtue of the Führerprinzip more...

Anonymous said...

"Many people are not aware of this, but Persians/Iranians are not true Arabs. The Proto-Indo-Iranians are commonly identified with the descendants of the Proto-Indo-Europeans."

They certainly look different! Neither are Egyptians ethnic Arabs (although unlike the Persians they now speak Arabic and think of themselves as such); they are descendants of the ancient Egyptians, not of the inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula.

More significantly, there is anecdotal evidence that it is Haj Amin, a militant Jew-hater on the basis of the Koran and the steady drip of Jewish migrants to Palestine under the Brits between the wars, who turned Hitler's thoughts from banishing Jews to exterminating them. This is on Craig Winn's "Prophet of Doom" website in an article about Hajj Amin - google it, because the website is down right now so I can't provide the URL. It also mentions Reinhard Heydrich.

Anonymous said...

Pope Francis made some False Prophet like statements today.

NTEB News Desk September 3, 2014

"In our catecheses, we have often noted that we do not become a Christian on our own, but by being born and nurtured in the faith in the midst of the People of God, that is the " Church", he stated. "She is a true mother who gives us life in Christ, and in the communion of the Holy Spirit, brings us into a common life with our brothers and sisters".
"The model of motherhood for the Church is the Blessed Virgin Mary, who in the fullness of time conceived through the Holy Spirit and gave birth to the Son of God" Pope Francis continued. "Her motherhood continues through the Church, who brings forth sons and daughters through baptism, whom she nourishes through the word of God"

According to the Catholic News Agency, he also urged the crowds to seek the intercession of Mary, and pray that they can "learn from her that tenderness which allows us to be witnesses of maternity of the Church".

Anonymous said...

"The model of motherhood for the Church is the Blessed Virgin Mary"

Which is rather strange given that the church asserts her perpetual virginity! You are not likely to become a mother like that...

Susanna said...

Re:More significantly, there is anecdotal evidence that it is Haj Amin, a militant Jew-hater on the basis of the Koran and the steady drip of Jewish migrants to Palestine under the Brits between the wars, who turned Hitler's thoughts from banishing Jews to exterminating them

But before that, Hitler favored Zionism.

In spite of the basic hostility between the Hitler regime and international Jewry, for several years Jewish Zionist and German National Socialist interests coincided. In collaborating with the Zionists for a mutually desirable and humane solution to a complex problem, the Third Reich was willing to make foreign exchange sacrifices, impair relations with Britain and anger the Arabs. Indeed, during the 1930s no nation did more to substantively further Jewish-Zionist goals than Hitler's Germany.

However, Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf

“While the Zionists try to make the rest of the World believe that the national consciousness of the Jew finds its satisfaction in the creation of a Palestinian state, the Jews again slyly dupe the dumb Goyim. It doesn't even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there; all they want is a central organisation for their international world swindler, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.
It is a sign of their rising confidence and sense of security that at a time when one section is still playing the German, French-man, or Englishman, the other with open effrontery comes out as the Jewish race.”

― Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

Anonymous said...


Which is exactly WHY she is so special, a virgin who gave us His ONLY begotten son, chosen, handpicked by God Himself. She is an extraordinarily special Mother. A 'one of'.

From Oz

Anonymous said...

"Her motherhood continues through the Churchwho brings forth sons and daughters through baptism, whom she nourishes through the word of God"

Oh my.

Ok first off in the bible it says: She brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped Him in swaddling clothes and laid Him in a manger...Luke 2:7 And we read in the gospels of his brothers and sisters (who thought at one point in the gospel accounts, with mom Mary in tow, that their brother Jesus was crazy in one instance mentioning his human family) so obviously she had a #2 child and #3 child, #4 child, etc..., after she gave birth to her #1 Jesus. How is this so difficult to understand and what could be so wrong with Jesus having a natural mother and a natural family? He was 100% God and 100% human. This catholic "teaching" is 100% wrong according to God's word. But that statement that was quoted at the top of my post makes that wrong doctrine even worse.

I was born-again into the kingdom of God by the Holy Spirit Who gave me the gift of repentance and faith in Jesus. (You must be born again Jesus said) Mary had not one thing to do with that. She did her part to birth Him naturally into this world (and yes He was conceived by God the Holy Spirit in Mary a virgin) but...a very important but...there is no other with the power except the Lord's Spirit Who can "birth" us into God's forever family. That is salvation by God's lamb of sacrifice. It is in Jesus all by himself Who paid my sin debt (and everyones), not His mother. (she needed Him to save her sinful soul also and called Him my Savior. Why would she call him her savior if she did not need one? sorry but don't you folks read?)

What grave error to even suggest otherwise.

Don't take my word for it of course.....take God at His.

Anonymous said...

Christine @ 7:39 AM: you seem to imply that you can fight evil with its own tools, claiming that you have to use it's own stuff against it ... You mean a sort of Harry Potter style? To apply some sort of gnostic mirror as it were? You cannot fight any of this 'stuff' with your Gnosticism, nor with lying imaginations of flying carpets, wands, chakras aka Kabbalist serafots. Everything must be done in the Name of Jesus Christ and in His Truth, for on our own we can do nothing!

You yourself are fitting into that New Agey sci-fi agenda you speak of (no matter how much you've tried here in this comment to mask the assertions you've made in past comments with the blanket of supposition.) by promoting alien nonsense with your men from Mars (apparently humanoid with origins on Earth). When our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ returns and gathers the elect from the four winds will that include any of your men from Mars? Will those that receive the Mark of the Beast and worship his image include any of your men from Mars? How so? Will they too be present at Armageddon? We know that all, except Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, have sinned and gone astray, so will the great falling away affect them? Let me patronise you in return Christine aka infoWOLF ... The questions in this paragraph are rhetorical, as there are no humans or other physical living beings on Mars! There is NO evidence for them despite your pie in the sky conjecture, and to claim such is to attempt, knowingly or not, to cast doubt over the veridity and inerrancy of Prophetic Holy Scripture! Let God be true and every man a liar!

Post Scriptum: Your diversionary tactics with reference to DARPA bears no relevance in persuading us of your case. You are peddling heresy, dripping in New Age poison! I suggest you watch, 'Ancient Aliens Debunked', by Chris White on YouTube, which is succinctly yet simply explained, rather than trying to make merchandise of us through Amazon. Repent of marketing deception and pray for His guidance. If you earnestly do this and abandon your lying imaginations bogged down in arrogant pride and obstinacy, then you'll be able to trust in God to lead you to victory in exposing deception. You never know, maybe you'll be able to inform others by writing a worthwhile book on it.

Anonymous said...

Christine @ 7:39 AM: you seem to imply that you can fight evil with its own tools, claiming that you have to use it's own stuff against it ... You mean a sort of Harry Potter style? To apply some sort of gnostic mirror as it were? You cannot fight any of this 'stuff' with your Gnosticism, nor with lying imaginations of flying carpets, wands, chakras aka Kabbalist serafots. Everything must be done in the Name of Jesus Christ and in His Truth, for on our own we can do nothing!

You yourself are fitting into that New Agey sci-fi agenda you speak of (no matter how much you've tried in your comment at 7:39 AM to mask the assertions you've made in past comments with the blanket of supposition.) by promoting alien nonsense with your men from Mars (apparently humanoid with origins on Earth). When our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ returns and gathers the elect from the four winds will that include any of your men from Mars? Will those that receive the Mark of the Beast and worship his image include any of your men from Mars? How so? Will they too be present at Armageddon? We know that all, except Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, have sinned and gone astray, so will the great falling away affect them? Let me patronise you in return Christine aka infoWOLF ... The questions in this paragraph are rhetorical, as there are no humans or other physical living beings on Mars! There is NO evidence for them despite your pie in the sky conjecture, and to claim such is to attempt, knowingly or not, to cast doubt over the veridity and inerrancy of Prophetic Holy Scripture! Let God be true and every man a liar!

Post Scriptum: Your diversionary tactics with reference to DARPA bears no relevance in persuading us of your case. You are peddling heresy, dripping in New Age poison! I suggest you watch, 'Ancient Aliens Debunked', by Chris White on YouTube, which is succinctly yet simply explained, rather than trying to make merchandise of us through Amazon. Repent of marketing deception and pray for His guidance. If you earnestly do this and abandon your lying imaginations bogged down in arrogant pride and obstinacy, then you'll be able to trust in God to lead you to victory in exposing deception. You never know, maybe you'll be able to inform others by writing a worthwhile book on it.

Anonymous said...

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

7:10 and 8:19

it is very rare for an individual without prior priming of any sort, to find and read a Bible or a tract without any Christian human contact, and become a Christian.

Even when such a thing happens, other Christians HAVE been in play, those who copied out Bibles by hand until the middle ages and Gutenberg invented the printing press; those who used the press to print Bibles; those who translated Bibles and wrote tracts and distributed them.

nowadays, the majority of Christians come to the faith because of family or other Christian peer group influence.

as for Mary, the kind of motherhood involved in that statement is obviously not the physical technical motherhood but the actual motherhood of raising the child.

any asshole can get pregnant. motherhood does not make one instantly wise and "instinct" is more likely prior training in child care if only by observation, kicking in. It is strikingly absent in many backwater cultures with high infant mortality rates that had to be taught things by aid workers. Statistically, in the primitive environments at least, a child is at the greatest risk for infanticide, within the first four hours after birth. Never mind where I got all that, it was credible source at the time decades ago, and I don't have the sources now. Theoretically, if God wanted to display His sovereignty and power, He could have taken a sin laden airhead with a bad attitude and made her pregnant and miraculously raised the baby Jesus to maturity by direct divine overt miraculous actions.

But instead He picked a worthy girl to be the mother of His Son.

I don't think anything in those statements have any false prophet tone to them.

I also think a lot here are falling into the same trap of centuries, writing our current situations into Bible prophecy though this time we may be getting closer to the truth on this one.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

anon 12:16

I am a great fan of Chris White, and while I take exception to one or two minor things in Ancient Aliens Debunked I think it is excellent.

And you don't have the vaguest idea what I am talking about, or you wouldn't say that, because I also dismiss the ancient alien thesis in my book, sure there are some indications in art of alien (add quotation marks) contact, but I think I noted in my book that it is more likely we taught them megalithic construction than the other way around. of course once they knew it, they would teach it to others, so location a on earth aliens learn from us, location b on earth aliens teach other humans.

But this teaching is not friendly. it is more like teaching work gangs how to do their work.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

and as far as being able to fight deception, I am not sure you would know deception if it walked up and bit you on the ass.

while the average church goer is not thinking aliens invented Jesus and engineered us, this thinking IS in play to keep people from accepting Him, whether by thinking He is just one of many, or by thinking all religions incl. the true one, Christianity, are false, and that atheism is the one true faith. Also this would figure in some cases in luring people out of church (probably those not that committed but assumed to be because from "christian" families).

as for saying yeah chakras and energy body is real but New Agers teach all the wrong things about them and have an agenda to screw you up regarding such, that is not using the devil's tools like Harry Potter, that is like saying "the mechanic you are going to is a fraud who will wreck your stuff."

The ecclesiastes 12 I think it is passage is a little too exactly parallel.

Did you know that modern medicine originated in synthetisizing and concetrating chemicals that are in herbs?

Just because herbs were used for good and for evil, does that mean they are all of the devil and medicine is of the devil? well if you are Christian Scientist on the one hand, or some kind of charismatic or pentecostal extremist on the other, you probably do think that, and interestingly enough word of faith tracks back to Quimby, Mary Baker Eddy's teacher.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12:11 A.M.

Re:"Ok first off in the bible it says:"

The Bible came from the Church. The Church did not come from the Bible.

The Bible is part of the living Sacred Christian Tradition and is inseparable from it.

To say otherwise is both unbiblical and unhistorical!

The Bible itself does not teach "Sola Scriptura" - that the Bible is the only source of Divine revelation.

We know all about 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that is used to support "Sola Scriptura."

"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, training, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect (complete, adequate, competent), equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17

But it does not support "Sola Scriptura." That passage merely says that the Bible is "profitable." It does not say that the Bible ALONE is sufficient or that the Bible alone is the ONLY source of divine revelation.

The Bible does not say "Do not use tradition" or "Scripture alone is sufficient." But the Bible does not say "The Trinity is three persons in one God" either, yet it is a fundamental doctrine of Christianity.

However, the Bible does support Scripture and Sacred tradition as being the source of divine revelation.

“So then brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”
(2 Thessalonians 2:15)

Don't take my word for it of course.....take God at His.

Anonymous said...

OZ 8:38 P.M.

Ignore the troll(s).

Anonymous said...

The Bible came from the Church. The Church did not come from the Bible.

Oh my goodness.

Long before the church was on the earth was the word of God! Haven't you read Genesis?

There is your whole problem with God in the nutshell.

The church is put ahead of and exalted above God himself. Pride goes before a fall and you do not understand this?

Your statement above is agregious.

Anonymous said...

Hello 9:59 AM.
Yes indeed.
Your church did not come from the Bible.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

BTW that post about synthetic telepathy, that is NOT the first time this or anything similar has been done.

I brought this up last year here, and of course Physicist pooh poohed it, in fact this I even posted URLs to .edu places about this, and he either didn't bother to read them, despite a .edu being a university or suchlike legitimate thing, or already knew it was real and simply covered it up.

I think he may be a gate keeper, someone whose business it is to either allow a certain amount of info out, preferably in a context that makes it look loony, or control the speed of things getting noticed, or debunk the whole thing.

As for his complaint that using the term holographic is irresponsible, I agree it is, but this is the kind of talk coming from scientific circles.

Why? you may ask. Real simple. These people in power or in universities or with degrees now, grew up on sci fi and new age thinking, and brought these biasses and agendas with them when they got their degrees, got their respectability, or power, and put these to work for their agenda.

In the process they may stumble on something more or less real, but they put a mystical spin on it.

Physicist's claiming that there is nothing occult like Constance supposedly thinks about holography is an example. Either there is something seriously wrong with him, or more likely he is trying to warp the picture, BECAUSE SHE NEVER SAID IT WAS OCCULT, only that it could be used to create illusions for an occult agenda. I called him on that immediately and he didn't try to answer.

as for synthetic telepathy, the capability of amalgam tooth fillings under some acidified conditions, to pick up radio broadcasts so you get to listen to them in your head, the same principle of vibrating material making specific sounds as in a normal speaker, has been documented since the 1960s. Think someone hasn't worked on this by now and said nothing? It would be a national security issue and probably in a Special Access Program that only a handful of people would even know about, under no direct govt. supervision. That's how SAPs work.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

The Bible did not come from the Church nor vice versa, they both came from Jesus Christ the chief cornerstone of the Church, and the Apostles the other foundation stones of the Church.

Irenaeus was citing as authoritative, because vouched for by Apostles, the SAME NT Gospels and Epistles we use now. AD 180. End of subject.

The Bible does not say there is nothing outside of it that is worth paying attention to, all it says is that all Scripture is good for edification and equipping the man (or woman) of God to good works.

Paul mentions word of mouth as well as written information, but in mentioning this he puts the verbal into writing, and also elsewhere.

St. Basil the Great, in listing the unwritten things that come from The Apostles, gives a VERY short list THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY POINT OF DOCTRINE.

It is the Sign of the Cross and how to make it, triple immersion in Baptism, praying facing east (because Jesus said His Second Coming will be like the light shining from the east to the west like sunrise) and I forget the other things, they are practices not doctrines.

Now, as someone here put it more or less, I forget the exact words, the real issue of sola scriptura is not "is it in The Bible," but rather, "is it compatible with The Bible, is it deducable from The Bible, or is it prohibited or disproved by The Bible?"

Meanwhile, in practice, sola scriptura means sola Calvin and Zwingli which adds up to sola Augustine on steroids, and/or sola whoever else they take as the anointed interpreter of The Bible (but don't admit that is what they are doing).

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 10:43 A.M.

Re:Your statement above is agregious.

You might want to consider learning how to SPELL the word "egregious" before applying it to anyone's statements.

Moreover, trying to make your case from the "Sola Scriptura" ("Bible only") rule when the Bible does not teach Sola Scriptura is as EGREGIOUS as it is self-contradictory.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:49 P.M.

Ignore the trolls!!!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:56 P.M.

You are right. Done deal!

Anonymous said...

You have a much bigger problem than my spelling.

Anonymous said...

"Synthetic telepathy" is a gee-whizz phrase for a combination of sensors attached to the skull that can sense neuron firing patterns in the brain, attached to a computer program that has been trained to correlate brain patterns with thoughts for that individual. In short, it can read your mind. Then it can transmit your thoughts - crystallised in some kind of language - using radio waves to anybody with a receiver who is looking out. This process is not telepathy using means unknown to science, by which I mean scientific laws presently unknown or the intelligent spiritual forces of darkness ("the occult"). Accuracy of thought-reading is low at present but will improve, and never have I (Physicist) denied the feasibility of this process as Christine suggests above - only other types of telepathy. Science is entirely factual/amoral and can be used for good or evil but, in view of man's fallen heart, most likely the latter.

"As for his complaint that using the term holographic is irresponsible, I agree it is, but this is the kind of talk coming from scientific circles."

Christine is confusing two things here - the "holographic principle" under test in the experiments referred to higher up this thread about spacetime being discrete on tiny scales, and actual holograms as mentioned by Constance (whom I think was slightly confused about them) some time ago here. The "holographic principle" is named by an analogy and has nothing to do with optical holograms. The analogy is, scientifically speaking, quite involved.

You, Christine didn't even understand that it was an analogy, so why should anybody take your words or critique at 10:58AM above seriously? Do you see yourself as a great and heroic spiritual warrior whom the world "doesn't get"?


Anonymous said...

Wow, the catholic cultists on here are truly showing who they are, lost religionists with ZERO discernment!

The real trolls on here are those supporting the cult of the goddess. There simply is no valid discussion of New Age here without the cult of the goddess included.

You can post till you turn blue about nazis, who are mostly all dead. Or 'expose',and 'fight against' the rainbows and unicorn crowd, but the things we truly need to discuss include this obviously NOT christian poser in fancy duds, who is a vicar of nothing. Plus our little king Barry, the greatest 'change agent' in our history, who, along with his buddy, the vicar of nothing, well vicar of deception fits very well. But NO, those are subjects off limits!!!

So basically this site is for those who enjoy studying NA sans the reply important stuff that will affect us the most as we draw nearer the great tribulation. But fear not, Constance and Sussana will keep us informed should anything too evil begins to happen!

Susanna said...


Correct me if I am mistaken, but it seems to me that a true hologram is a pure light projection which is not really the same thing as what Craig Hogan is trying to discover by way of his experiment.

What is your opinion?

Susanna said...

Dear Physicist,

I agree about so-called "Synthetic telepathy." Somewhere along the way, material transmitters are involved. There is no evidence that I know of to indicate that we are capable of direct mind to mind communication without some form of transmitter capable of translating brain patterns into letters and/or words and then transmitting them back and forth from one brain to another.

This kind of technology might have some very useful applications for people with "locked in syndrome" who have no other way to communicate.

As you say, in and of itself, scientific technology is morally neutral. It is the way in which it is used that makes it good or evil.

Anonymous said...


You are entirely correct. This is about the "holographic principle" that Hogan is seeking to test:

Even though it is on Wikipedia I doubt that it will make much sense to non-physicists, but you can see that it has nothing to do with optical holography. It is named by an analogy with them, one which I am reluctant to go into here as it is quite technical.

Moreover if you look for Hogan's name on this Wikipedia page you will see that it is far from certain that his experiment actually tests what he says it tests. Life at the research frontier is often controversial. It doesn't help when scientists gush to science journalists or when the latter leave out the caveats.


Anonymous said...

Sola scriptura not in scripture? Sure it isn't, the Bible was not faxed from heaven together with an Intro saying This Is The Word Of The Lord. Similar phrases appear in some books of the Bible - but not all, and even in those it must have been decided that the author was a genuine and not a false prophet. The church decided what was and was not scripture a long time ago. The operational definition of "scripture" at that time was the inerrant word of God to all of his people, relevant to salvation. (I add those phrases because there have surely been some genuine prophets who spoke God's words into situations that the church does not need to learn anything from.)

Some people subsequently want to make other stuff equal in authority with that. Because they say this stuff is additional to scripture they say they are not changing scripture. But that depends on the definition of "scripture". They aren't changing "the Bible", sure. But they ARE changing what they say it is necessary to accept for salvation. For example, the Roman Catholic church for a long time insisted that you could not be saved if you knowingly joined another church system. In that era, what they were doing was entirely equivalent to adding to scripture. And it is operational definitions that count, not legalistic ones.

Susanna said...


The more I thought about it, the more something didn't seem quite right - especially with regard to Hogans use of the term "hologram" which, by its very definition is light projected in such a way as to make the image it represents seem three dimensional.

When we are talking about matter -including atoms, it already IS three dimensional.

In your opinion, what might be the practical use - if any - of an experiment such as the one Craig Hogan is conducting?

Interestingly, in 2012, Fermilab lost Federal Funding for one of its big long range projects and cut funding in half for another of its projects..

But Fermilab recently managed to get funding for its holometer from the U.S. Dept. of Energy Office of Science and "other sources."

As we say here "Go figure."

Anonymous said...


Hogan is taking the world "hologram/holographic" from the analogy, which IS valid although highly technical. Hogan and the scientists who are questioning what he is doing are not disagreeing about that, but about something else.

Practical use of string theory? Damn all for the conceivable future. But a General once asked Feynman what use some experiment might be to US Defense, and he replied that it helped make the US worth defending.

However, as you have to stress practical applications when making grant applications to Uncle Sam, even for theoretical research, a certain amount of "creative writing" goes on nowadays.


Susanna said...

Physicist 6:34,

Please don't laugh, but I am seeing the "string theory" as an attempt to explain how all the atomic and subatomic particles in the universe are "tied together."

LOL How many "light years" from the truth is that?

Susanna said...


Re:Moreover if you look for Hogan's name on this Wikipedia page you will see that it is far from certain that his experiment actually tests what he says it tests. Life at the research frontier is often controversial. It doesn't help when scientists gush to science journalists or when the latter leave out the caveats.

When I read your comment at 6:02 P.M. I had to go back and find this gem because I thought that you, of all people, would appreciate it. It could have been written by you!

Despite twenty or so years of touting in the popular scientific press by its leading exponents, the early promise of string theory is sagging under the weight of numerous and seemingly intractable problems, the most regrettable perhaps being its lamentable lack of empirical backing. Thus the once gloriously heralded future of this peculiar theory of everything is perhaps already behind it.

How is that for a temporal paradox?

Without the prerequisite empirical corroboration necessary for a good scientific theory, a latter day David Hume might recommend that string theory be consigned to the flames along with various other dubious and theatrically excessive Idols of the mind.

Anonymous said...


The comment starting "Moreover, if you look for Hogan's name..." which you say could have been written by me WAS written by me. I'm confused! I never quoted from that Wikipedia page, but merely gave its web address.

I am one who is sceptical of string theory. Today quite a few physicists are, but it never smelt right to me (because I advocate "hidden variables" underlying quantum theory, although I am certainly in a minority there). The book "Not Even Wrong" by Peter Woit, and another by Lee Smolin, are advanced-popular level works by decent scientists written against string theory.


Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Physicist, when I first brought up synthetic telepathy, context, that chipping could be used to facilitate this eventually which would mean more influence on people, you dismissed it out of hand.

of course SYNTHETIC telepathy involves radio technology of some sort.

As for Constance, she was not confused at all. What she addressed was the capability of holography to eventually become good enough to make illusions to promote a false religious agenda. Nowhere did she say holography was itself an occult as in paranormal practice or art, which is what you accused her of saying when you explained that contrary to her statements, there was nothing occult about it.

But all she ever said was that occult philosophers - or one of them - advocated using holography to make a fake second coming.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

the church didn't decide what was Scripture, the APOSTLES TOLD THE CHURCH WHAT WAS SCRIPTURE and what was acceptable additional information and edifying stuff, ergo the deuterocanonicals, which are in fact referenced here and there in the NT.

Susanna said...


I meant that the comment below my
It could have been written by you!....could have been written by you.....this one.

Despite twenty or so years of touting in the popular scientific press by its leading exponents, the early promise of string theory is sagging under the weight of numerous and seemingly intractable problems, the most regrettable perhaps being its lamentable lack of empirical backing. Thus the once gloriously heralded future of this peculiar theory of everything is perhaps already behind it.

How is that for a temporal paradox?

Without the prerequisite empirical corroboration necessary for a good scientific theory, a latter day David Hume might recommend that string theory be consigned to the flames along with various other dubious and theatrically excessive Idols of the mind.


By the way, the "hidden variables" is the facet of quantum physics New Agers try to deploy in defense of the notion that the human mind controls reality.

Quantum mechanics, the centerpiece of modern physics, is misinterpreted as implying that the human mind controls reality and that the universe is one connected whole that cannot be understood by the usual reduction to parts.

However, no compelling argument or evidence requires that quantum mechanics plays a central role in human consciousness or provides instantaneous, holistic connections across the universe. Modern physics, including quantum mechanics, remains completely materialistic and reductionistic while being consistent with all scientific observations.

The apparent holistic, nonlocal behavior of quantum phenomena, as exemplified by a particle’s appearing to be in two places at once, can be understood without discarding the commonsense notion of particles following definite paths in space and time or requiring that signals travel faster than the speed of light.

No superluminal motion or signalling has ever been observed, in agreement with the limit set by the theory of relativity. Furthermore, interpretations of quantum effects need not so uproot classical physics, or common sense, as to render them inoperable on all scales-especially the macroscopic scale on which humans function. Newtonian physics, which successfully describes virtually all macroscopic phenomena, follows smoothly as the many-particle limit of quantum mechanics. And common sense continues to apply on the human scale.

Anonymous said...


Too many negative adjectives in that sentence for my style. I used to write like that 20 years ago if I was being critical; nowadays I prefer to let the facts speak for themselves in the reader's mind, and when getting polemical I now prefer satire to sarcasm.

New Age will appropriate anything to their own ends, and I guess that goes for hidden variables too, but if they claim that human consciousness is the hidden variable then it doesn't help improve prediction, by going from probabilistic prediction to deterministic prediction - which is the whole point of hidden variables.


paul said...

So the universe isn't a hologram ?

Susanna said...


We have to wait until Craig Hogan, a particle astrophysicist at Fermilab, checks it out with his government(and other sources funded "holometer."

Just one more example of our tax dollars at work! :-)

Anonymous said...

They should just build a big old Temple in Jerusalem that is multi-purpose. We could call the new religion Chrislamajude.

Anonymous said...

A few years ago I saw a Vatican article warning people NOT to believe anything that might 'appear' in the sky, it was around the time of these UFO sightings being broadcast in a big way and people in the media etc talking about disclosure. I went back to try to find that article but no luck. Perhaps it relates to the holographs becoming high tech enough to have people believing falsities. I have often wondered, with technology the way its becoming, if there would be those who would emulate the second coming for their own purposes.

Now I sound like a total mad thing but with everything else we read that is going on out there, nothing would surprise me and perhaps the reason for that Vatican warning in the news article a few yrs ago.

From Oz

Anonymous said...

Maybe ETs will unite the religions. This has been suggested as the great deception which if it were possible could even deceive the elect. In my opinion and the opinion of many others ETs are nothing more than demonic entities:

Anonymous said...

"As for Constance, she was not confused at all. What she addressed was the capability of holography to eventually become good enough to make illusions to promote a false religious agenda. Nowhere did she say holography was itself an occult as in paranormal practice or art, which is what you accused her of saying when you explained that contrary to her statements, there was nothing occult about it."

Christine, I simply explained the science and it was true I wasn't sure what Constance was getting at in relation to the occult, but I made no "accusation". You are now falsely accusing me of accusing her. If you think I accused her, kindly review the thread in question and post the reference here so that readers can decide for themselves.


Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

if you say that something is not occult like someone thinks or says it is, and prove this by you working with the same thing (holography), you are accusing them of thinking or saying it is occult.

you don't have to say "I accuse," you only have to say they are wrong in thinking this. THAT IS AN ACCUSATION.

anyone reading your unchallenged statement, would conclude that Constance thought holography was a paranormal occultic art in itself, regardless of usage.

Creating an impression is an accusation. Period. I don't recall you gave any caveats like "I may misunderstand her but I think she is saying...." etc.

I think if you study issues of propaganda on the one hand, and civil lawsuits about putting one in a false light, or about libel for that matter, you will understand what I am saying.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

the idea of the universe as a hologram sounds similar to the Platonic ideas, the perfect original patterns to every creature which is each (whether of individual or of kind) the reflection of the perfect ideal.

A Christian version of this had the ideas being in God's mind. This would effectively have the universe and all in it a projection of God's thoughts.

you can work God into any scenario if you want to. and work Him out of it in theory if you want to. However, the existence of something, regardless of what it consists of congealed energy or whatever, proves God's existence because nothing is self existent.

As for human consciousness controlling reality, WHOSE consciousness?

If this were the case, everything would be in shifting chaos constantly, as one person's view of things overrode another's view.

Let's say you think you have a table in a room you are going into, and another person is dead sure it isn't there. When you get into the room, you would find the table in flux, or if the other person's "faith" was strong enough, not there at all, and what you were going to put on it would hit the floor. (probably would anyway if it was in flux between existence and non existence.)

The most that can be said in reality is that the table is not there for the person who doesn't think it is there.....until he bumps into it.

The stability of what we experience every day proves things are not merely the product of human consciousness.

Now, in the sense of human consciousness being involved in inventing tables and making them, that is another matter. BUT THAT ISN'T ALL WONDERFULLY MYSTICAL ENOUGH FOR THESE PEOPLE.

Sure, you can shape your reality to some extent, you can experience a rainy day as nice or nasty depending on how you view it.

But its still raining.

your attitude can affect others and how they deal with you as a result.
But irritating people with bad manners, vs. pleasing them with nice manners, and getting more flies with honey than vinegar, is not mystical or anything.

I think that it was a mistake to encourage children in fantasy and whatnot. Some never grew up, some go crazy, some control it enough to get PhDs and then teach us to go crazy with their authoritative seeming fantasies.

The people in politics and science and sociology and anthropology and so forth now, are often the same ones who were doing drugs in the 1960s, or letting their consciousness get shaped by the insane philosophies such people put in books.

Anonymous said...

I understand exactly what you are saying Christine. You are trying to put me in a bad light because I misunderstood something. In my (consequently superfluous) explanation I did not attack Constance; therefore there was no accusation, implicit or explicit. Check the dictionary. It is you who are making false accusation (that I accused Constance), and your failure to post my words or the date or URL of the relevant thread is revealing.


Anonymous said...

"I think that it was a mistake to encourage children in fantasy and whatnot. Some never grew up, some go crazy, some control it enough to get PhDs and then teach us to go crazy with their authoritative seeming fantasies."

Others do the same without PhDs, such as believing in intelligent life on Mars.

Anonymous said...

"the church didn't decide what was Scripture, the APOSTLES TOLD THE CHURCH WHAT WAS SCRIPTURE..."

I accept that the Councils which declared the canon a few centuries later were simply rubber-stamping what was generally accepted, to preclude later gnostic gospels, but the above claim is nonsense. There is no evidence that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul knew that they were writing scripture in real time. Some of them knew that they were writing down the words of Jesus, but their motivation was simply to spread His message. Paul would obviously have been surprised and delighted that some of his letters made it into the New Testament.

Anonymous said...

Constance has asked Christine several times here to restrict herself to one post per day...

Anonymous said...


As large as the catholic institution is, you will find conflicting statements from within. You can be sure that with Francis's statement about ETs, that "if there would be those who would emulate the second coming for their own purposes", its safe to believe the Vatican will be involved in the deception.

Oz, you only need Christ and His Word to guide your life, not statements issued by any religious organization!

Anonymous said...

I do believe totally in Christ.

From Oz

Craig said...

I think it possible that the object of Hogan’s work is to ‘prove’ that the universe really is “maya.” From wikipedia ( scroll down to “In Advaita Vedanta” section):

In Advaita Vedanta philosophy, māyā is the limited, purely physical and mental reality in which our everyday consciousness has become entangled. Māyā is held to be an illusion, a veiling of the true, unitary Self—the Cosmic Spirit also known as Brahman. The concept of māyā was introduced by the ninth-century Hindu philosopher Adi Shankara.[13] He refuses, however, to explain the relationship between Brahman and māyā.[14]

Many philosophies and religions seek to "pierce the veil" of māyā in order to glimpse the transcendent truth from which the illusion of a physical reality springs, drawing from the idea that first came to life in the Hindu stream of Vedanta.

Māyā is a fact in that it is the appearance of phenomena. Since Brahman is the only truth, māyā is true but not the truth, the difference being that the truth is the truth forever while what is true is only true for now. Since māyā causes the material world to be seen, it is true in itself but is "untrue" in comparison to the Brahman. On the other hand, māyā is not false. It is true in itself but untrue in comparison with the absolute truth. In this sense, reality includes māyā and the Brahman. The goal of spiritual enlightenment ought to be to see Brahman and māyā and distinguish between them. Hence, māyā is described as indescribable. Māyā is avyakta and as Parameshashakti has two principal functions: one is to veil Brahman and obscure and conceal it from our consciousness; the other is to present and promulgate the material world and the veil of duality instead of Brahman. The veil of māyā may be pierced, and, with diligence and grace, may be permanently rent. Consider an illusion of a rope being mistaken for a snake in the darkness. Just as this illusion gets destroyed when true knowledge of the rope is perceived, similarly, māyā gets destroyed for a person when they perceive Brahman with transcendental knowledge. A metaphor is also given—when the reflection of Brahman falls on māyā, Brahman appears as God (the Supreme Lord). Pragmatically, where the duality of the world is regarded as true, māyā becomes the divine magical power of the Supreme Lord. māyā is the veritable fabric of duality, and she performs this role at the behest of the Supreme Lord. God is not bound by māyā, just as magicians do not believe the illusions of their own magic.

In my opinion, this is the true idea of monism – not that we are ontologically equivalent with the universe in a physical sense, but in a spiritual sense. The physical is merely illusion (maya) and, as Blavatsky makes clear, will be destroyed, at which point the remaining spiritual entities will then become ‘one.’

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