Wednesday, August 06, 2008


Javier Solana is representing world concerns vis a vis the Iranian nuclear issues.  Iran delivered a note to him requesting clarification on certain aspects of incentive programs proposed to them in exchange for them terminating nuclear development projects.  Per Voice of America news just in which you may read by clicking here, it sounds ominously like the USA is beating war drums.  It will be interesting to see how Javier Solana skates around this!   Given the concerns articulated to me by Pastor Ervin Baxter and Dr. Stanley Monteith about war concerns in the Middle East, I am concerned.


Most interesting, the story behind the link has changed since I posted this to make it sound like "a coalition" action rather than USA suggested. Here is the text as it appeared when I posted it earlier today:

The United States says punitive measures are needed against Iran over its response to a demand that it freeze its nuclear program.

The warning comes as diplomats from Germany and five permanent U.N. Security Council members: the U.S., Britain, France, Russia and China - prepare to hold a conference call Wednesday to discuss their next move.

On Tuesday, Iran presented a letter to European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana requesting further details about an incentives package offered last month in exchange for Tehran's suspension of uranium enrichment.

Dana Perino [her picture was there]
White House Spokeswoman Dana Perino said Wednesday that in the absence of a positive response, the U.S. and its allies will have no choice but to take further measures.

France says Iran's response to the offer was insufficient.

World powers had given Iran an informal deadline of August 2 to accept the incentives. Iran did not give a definitive answer by the deadline, and world powers demanded a written response by Tuesday.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said that Iran is ready to talk but not ready to stop enriching uranium.

The International Atomic Energy Agency says that deputy director general Olli Heinonen will travel to Tehran on Thursday for talks with officials.
The new story behind the same link reads:

Major Powers to Seek New Sanctions Against Iran
By David Gollust
State Department
06 August 2008

The five permanent U.N. Security Council member countries and Germany, the P-Five-plus-One, agreed Wednesday to consider new sanctions against Iran after another ambiguous Iranian response to their offer of incentives to halt uranium enrichment. The United States says a written Iranian response this week was a stalling tactic. VOA's David Gollust reports from the State Department.

U.S. Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs William Burns
The announcement that the P-Five-plus-One will begin the process of seeking another sanctions resolution followed a telephone conference call of senior diplomats of the major powers, including U.S. Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs William Burns.

The political directors examined a one-page Iranian response sent Tuesday to European Union chief diplomat Javier Solana to an enhanced incentives package first presented in June, aimed at getting Iran to stop what U.S. officials believe is a weapons-related uranium enrichment project.
Iranian response viewed as stalling tactic

Iran was given additional time to respond after an ambiguous reply to the big-power diplomats in Geneva July 19. Both U.S. and European Union officials say the latest Iranian note again fails to give a definitive reply.

In a talk with reporters, State Department Acting Spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos said the lack of a clear answer, once again, is very disappointing.

"The letter we received yesterday appears to be a stalling tactic," he noted. "The P-Five-plus-One reaffirmed a commitment to the dual-track strategy, and are agreed but we have no choice but to pursue further measures again Iran as part of this strategy. Given the absence of a clear, positive response from Iran and its failure to meet the deadline, the P5 plus one are discussing next steps in the U.N. Security Council and are beginning to consider the possible outlines of another resolution."
No time frame for new sanctions resolution

Spokesman Gallegos gave no time frame for development of a new U.N. sanctions resolution, while noting that the three previous measures against Iran required months of diplomacy.

Russia and China are understood to be reluctant to increase sanctions and Gallegos acknowledged that if the decision was one the United States could make alone, the process "would proceed at a different pace."

Wednesday's Iranian statement was leaked, apparently by Iran, to several news outlets.

It said the Tehran government is ready to provide a clear response to the offer, but only after the major powers provide clarifications to Iranian questions about the package.

Gallegos said the terms of the offer are already clear and that Iran is just trying to prolong the process.

The P-Five-Plus-One plan offers Iran, among other things, aid for a civilian nuclear power program, if it stops the enrichment drive. Iran contends its nuclear program is entirely peaceful and that it has a right to develop a complete uranium fuel cycle.

It looks like substituted story may be to distance the White House from the action that was implied when the White House Press Secretary, Dana Perino delivered the message!

thanks for keeping us uptodate Constance!

I had a question related to Archbishop Dom Helder Camara whom you spoke of in "Hidden Dangers of The Rainbow."

I know that has nothing to do with this particular post, but i can't find any other way to email you.

I just recently did a presentation at my Catholic parish entitled "Oprah, A New Earth and The Dangers of The New Age Movement" in which i exposed Lucis Trust, Maitreya, Blavatsky, Oprah, etc. I quoted heavily from your "Hidden Dangers" book and recommended it to everyone in addition to showing them an interview clip with you from "Pathway to Paradise?" video.

You said that Dom Helder Camara was in Benjamin Creme's book "Reappearance of The Christ and The Masters of Wisdom." Was Camara directly involved with Creme or did Creme just quote some statements of Camara's that he liked? What statements exactly were in there from Camara?

Thanks in advance Constance for your help.

God Bless
Well constance I finally had the chance to get to the libary and look on your blog. I find this facinating the world is a sleep.
Most people don't know what hour it is. Keep up the good work and keep your eye on the prize above you.
Eagle eyes
I also read your past articles too.
Eagle eyes
To "The Sword"

The reference to Dom Helder Camara in Benjamin Creme's book THE REAPPEARANCE OF THE CHRIST was contained in the "Appendix to the Second Edition: "How the Plan is Working out." The statement is innocuous enough "The Brazilian archbishop Dom Helder Camera has named hunger as being the underlyin cause of every form of violence." These statements and other pices of in the context of justifying a global redistribution system a la that prophesied in Revelation/Apocalypse where all are forced to take a mark in order to buy and sell.

As regards the statment, Creme merely wrote: "All these statements and developments are signs of a dawning awareness of hte position in which our society finds itself; it is indeed a matter of 'share or die.' In this awareness however, lies the implicaiton that it is still possible to change course. That possibility will bevcome a certainty as soon as man has pledged himself in support of Maitreya."

That, in and of itself, was not my major cause of concern on Dom Helder Camera. His very close relationship with Matthew Fox (Fox writes of it in his CONFESSIONS OF A POST-DENOMINATIONAL PRIEST),

Dom Helder Camara's own book, available for pdf download

reveals him as a syncretist who wittingly or unwittingly is advocating a new world religion:

"Within his own religion, each person will
discover the necessary impulse to give himself
entirely to justice as condition of peace.
Alongside the development of Action
for Justice and Peace, it will one day be
necessary to collect from the sacred books
of all the religions the exhortations, precepts
and prayers which speak about peace
and justice, and similarly the examples of
the great models in the various religions.
For some religions the word 'justice' always presupposes such virtues, and is in fact a
synonym for holiness."

His interest in "the movement" as he puts it , I rather suspect refers to the even then globalized New Age Movement:

"What seems vague will become definite.
What seems obscure will become clear.
And the movement which seems to be without
a leader, without a guide, will be led
directly by the Lord."

There must be similar movements within
the other religions. The time has come
when each religion must rediscover, in its
sacred texts, the truths capable of encouraging
the human development of the outcasts
of the modern world and of arousing
the consciences of the rich." (page 71 of Helder's book)

Is pluralism possible within Action for
Justice and Peace? Not only possible, but
desirable. Safeguarded by the essence of the
movement, defined by its name, its ideal
will be unity but not uniformity, variety in
The movement would have no deep
vitality if it took the same form in Brazil as
in France, in the Indies as in the United
States, in the Cameroons as in Australia.
Each race, each language, each religion
must leave its own mark on the movement." (p. 76)

With that having been said, I cannot judge Dom Helder Camara's heart or his motives. That the New Agers used him and continue to use him is certain.

Clearly, we were told to feed the poor, clothe the naked . . . and to seek justice. That's what motivated me to enter my own position. On the other hand, we were to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and man and to put no other gods before Him. Working to further syncretism is a violation of our duty to remain loyal to God.

There were more parts to your question, but I have to return to work now. I will try to address the rest later.

For what it is worth, I don't know much about Dom Helder Camara's New Age connection with Creme, but I do know that Camara was known as "the Red Bishop," on account of his haveng been an inspirer and proponent of Liberation Theology.

For that reason, as soon as Camara turned 75, his resignation from his post as Archbishop of Recife, Brazil was said to have been immediately accepted by Pope John Paul II.

While Catholic Bishops are often allowed to serve beyond the mandatory retirement age at the discretion of the Pope, such was not the case with Archbishop Camara.

As Christians, we are all called upon to charitably help the poor, but not in such a way as to make it necesary for "the poor" to sell their consciences for bread by embracing a pseudo-theology that is ultimately disguised atheism!

And Liberation theology is precisely that - atheistic Marxism tricked out in "Christian" terminology whose modus operandi involves exploiting, among other things, the plight of the poor and deploying it in the service of "the revolution."

While only God can judge the hearts of those who promote so-called "Liberation Theology," (including Camara's) the possibility remains that some who promote it are like Judas who betrayed Our Lord with a kiss and disguised his avaricious treachery as a hypocritical "concern for the poor" - even as he was dipping his fingers into the till.
headline from the Israel section of today's Jerusalem Post. It sounds like the rhetoric is getting stronger and Germany signed a new gas contract with Iran recently : » Israel » Article

Aug 7, 2008 12:15 | Updated Aug 7, 2008 13:39
Defense minister: All Iran options are 'open and ready'

One more article that didn't make it to the US mainstream press but Jerusalem Post had, was that Obama fired his Muslim consultant because he had radical Islamic associations, but evidently Obama was unaware of that.....if you can believe that.

Here are the links to those articles which disappear quickly :

Excuse me, the one about Iran was a front page article:

It looks as though according to this article in the Jerusalem Post posted today that 2 additional US aircraft carriers are being deployed to the Gulf. Also Kuwait is finalizing it's "emergency war plans". Link to the article is

Requardless of what is being said in the press it looks as though pressures are being brought against Iran.

".....GCC states "are very disappointed by, and deeply concerned at, such irresponsible remarks and they expect an immediate clarification from Iran of its deputy foreign minister's statement," he added.

The Riyadh-based GCC groups Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

Attiyah's hard-hitting response came one day after Kuwait chided Iran for threatening to close the Strait of Hormuz, the vital Gulf oil supply route, amid persisting tensions in the region over Tehran's nuclear ambitions.

Iran has warned it could close the strategic waterway if it came under attack over its nuclear programme.

Washington has never ruled out resorting to military action over what it charges is Iran's effort to develop a nuclear weapon -- a charge Tehran denies -- and there has also been speculation that Israel might strike Iranian nuclear sites."
When discussing the subject of "Liberation Theology" it's easy to paint with a broad brush. Keep in mind that Catholicism does not prescribe adherence to any particular political creed, even though the "Americanist" political tendencies of many Roman Catholic intellectuals can, to outsiders, suggest otherwise.

It is perfectly possible for a faithful, informed, and orthodox Roman Catholic to hold strong leftist political beliefs.

It's also important to remember that deception nearly always uses truth to deceive.

Hamdan sentenced to 66 months in prison.

Anyone else see the symbolism?

I am not sure that I buy much of this GWOT.
'2 US aircraft carriers headed for Gulf'

Aug. 7, 2008

Adam Gonn, The Media Line News Agency , THE JERUSALEM POST

Two additional United States naval aircraft carriers are heading to the Gulf and the Red Sea, according to the Kuwaiti newspaper Kuwait Times.
Kuwait began finalizing its "emergency war plan" on being told the vessels were bound for the region.

The US Navy would neither confirm nor deny that carriers were en route. US Fifth Fleet Combined Maritime Command located in Bahrain said it could not comment due to what a spokesman termed "force-protection policy."

While the Kuwaiti daily did not name the ships it believed were heading for the Middle East, The Media Line's defense analyst said they could be the USS Theodore Roosevelt and the USS Ronald Reagan.
There are days when I feel overwhelmed with the amount of information I've accumulated about the New Age movement over the last 26 years, obviously with the help of others. At this point I feel I'm losing focus on what others think are the greatest worries about the New Age movement.

If the New Age movement continues its drive, what do you think will happen to the culture in which we live? How will it affect someone living in a small town in Iowa for example? Do you only envision an end of the world ending?

Why do you keep following the blog? What information hits your hot button?

I think what I fear most is the squeeze effect being brought about slowly. More and more individual freedoms are being lost. While we are told this is happening because it is the will of the community, in reality control is coming from individuals who belong to groups whose motives are hidden from the general population. It's one big lie after another from the local school system on up. In such a system decent, honest people cannot succeed or last. Trust withers. Morality as taught in Judaism and Christianity is no longer valued.

Forget what I worry about. Tell me what concerns you about the New Age movement. And...thank you in advance.

To Anon 5:39 "It is perfectly possible for a faithful, informed, and orthodox Roman Catholic to hold strong leftist political beliefs." As in the US Gov. putting their hands in my pocket and in my childrens pockets for the foreseeable future to pay for redistribution of "wealth." Some call that theft; considering how much we already gave to charities; maybe I'll just let Uncle Sam do all my giving!
Dorothy 7:26,

You wrote that you are feeling a "squeeze effect"?

I'd paint a much more ominous picture.

We're like frogs in the proverbial pot of water that is just about to boil. Some people (many of the bloggers here for instance) are aware of steam rising or can see the little tiny bubbles starting to percolate up from the bottom of the pot. People like you and Constance probably feel more heat since you've had your eyes focused on all this stuff for a longer time. (I bet you even noticed when the old campfire was replaced by a modern electric stove!) Many of us have missed much because we were just swimming around having a good time. Most people are still swimming around, (because they LIKE swimming around, swimming is fun), but it's getting harder to keep our heads above the tide. Perhaps the increasing warmth will cause many to fall asleep before the water reaches a full boil. But regardless, in my view, we are all still very much stuck in this rapidly warming pot. Last days, end times stuff yes indeed.

The “wise man” warned us what would be the result if we spent too much of our time searching for knowledge …

"Vanity of vanities," says the Preacher;
"Vanity of vanities, all is vanity."
What profit has a man from all his labor
In which he toils under the sun?
One generation passes away, and another generation comes;
But the earth abides forever.
The sun also rises, and the sun goes down,
And hastens to the place where it arose.
The wind goes toward the south,
And turns around to the north;
The wind whirls about continually,
And comes again on its circuit.
All the rivers run into the sea,
Yet the sea is not full;
To the place from which the rivers come,
There they return again.
All things are full of labor;
Man cannot express it.
The eye is not satisfied with seeing,
Nor the ear filled with hearing.
That which has been is what will be,
That which is done is what will be done,
And there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there anything of which it may be said,
"See, this is new"?
It has already been in ancient times before us.
There is no remembrance of former things,
Nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come
By those who will come after.
I, the Preacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem.
And I set my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all that is done under heaven; this burdensome task God has given to the sons of man, by which they may be exercised.
I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and indeed, all is vanity and grasping for the wind.
What is crooked cannot be made straight,
And what is lacking cannot be numbered.

I communed with my heart, saying, "Look, I have attained greatness, and have gained more wisdom than all who were before me in Jerusalem. My heart has understood great wisdom and knowledge."
And I set my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is grasping for the wind.
For in much wisdom is much grief,
And he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.
To Anonymous 5:39 P.M.

You wrote:

"It is perfectly possible for a faithful, informed, and orthodox Roman Catholic to hold strong leftist political beliefs."

This is long as the Roman Catholic with leftist political leanings does not lean beyond the point where his views cease to be orthodox.

For the most part, Marxism/socialism isn't about sharing the wealth. It is about controllong the wealth.

As far as that goes, the same can be said of unbridled monopolistic Capitalism.

In either case, the means of production wind up being concentrated in the hands of an elite few while the plight of the poor remains relatively unchanged.

I can't say this is the most important thing I worry about with the new age movement, but it is the first that came to mind. I worry about how this movement subtly influences and changes doctrine. Being able to constantly be vigilant and aware is tiring, but necessary. Trying to warn others about new age, occultic and other practices sneaking into our churches/synogogues is also tiring, but necessary.

Thanks for helping us get refocused.

Rich Peterson has a new blog posting up, dated 8/6/08. The title of the article is,
"An Open Letter to Politicians
Regarding the Alliance of Civilizations Initiative"

I'm in the process of reading it and reviewing the many informative links Rich has included. -Rudi

Over the last week, I have had one trial after another with my family and friends regarding trying to point them to information they need to know about the times we are living in. This, as you and everyone here already knows, is not a simple task. Trying to inform while not sounding crazy, trying to provide biblical solutions without proselytizing, trying to lift up when in truth the information that is coming in on a daily basis can only bring down,- all of these struggles are overwhelming at times.

The challenge for me is not to lose hope and sight of the end result as promised by my faith, and the only way that I can do that is to stay close to God in prayer and through scripture. Otherwise, I am a basket case.

Yes, there are days I just want to be like my computer whose hard drive I had to scrub recently because of the viruses and trojans that got into it in June. My computer became like new in that it had no memory left, the old programs and files were all gone! Everything was clean and fresh again! Some days I wish I could do that to my brain- scrub its hard drive clean. Better yet, I'd love to do a less drastic recovery and just set my brain's date back to an earlier time.

What concerns me most are the young people. Most people who blog here I believe are of an age where we saw changes in society gradually over the last 15-30 years or so, and realized that something was radically wrong, though we didn't know what it was at first. So we had to prod and probe into dark corners to learn the truth. For some, like myself, an event occurred in the past that removed the rose-covered glasses forever, and we lose much joy and innocence in the process of the learning.

The young people today have been indoctrinated so early on, that it seems hopeless to me to try to salvage them. I see it with my own children. I raised them to be Christians as best I could but the schools and universities they attended indoctrinated them with the New Age very insidiously over the years. My middle son is in law school right now- he thinks he has a great future in front of him, and it's hard for me to try to tell him that all of the studying he has been doing to get through law school and get into a good firm in the end is probably all for naught. He studied philosophy in a very liberal college and I also worry about all the Marx and Nietzsche he had to read. He is intelligent and sensitive but he sees things differently than I do thanks to the education he received, and I am having a hard time breaking it to him- the things that I now know. The younger son is worse in that he doesn't want to hear anything that I have to say at all. The oldest is the one that does believe me when I talk about some of this stuff, and I'm sure it is because his brain is less saturated with the lies that the other two received.

So that is what worries me- the magnitude of the New Age is so huge that it becomes a monumental effort to try to explain it. In truth, the generation of 30 and under, which includes my own sons, seems too far gone to save.

That leaves me with only one thing to resort to- my faith. Because I have faith, I pray. I don't think, based on the reactions I have had from friends and family recently, that I can teach anyone or change anyone's mind unless they willingly decide they want to open their minds to a great deal of information that is extremely depressing and stressful. In addition, I think there is a danger in presenting this information to the wrong people at the wrong time. Overly sensitive people, like myself and my middle son, can easily break under the stress of it all.

For those of us who know and easily recognize the New Age in movies, TV, book, sports and politics, the challenges are tremendous and that is why I cannot even face another day without faith.

I hope this long drawn out comment helps answer your question a little.

IMHO, from the things I have studied, I think that the New Age Movement is the radical Left Wing of a much larger gnostic movement.

If the radical Left Wing is less dangerous than the radical Right Wing of this movement, it is because the Right Wing is capable of appearing ...well.....more

For example, in terms of the radical "Right Wing" in Roman Catholicism we have the so-called "Traditionalists." In Protestantism, it appears to be "The Family." In Judaism, possibly the extreme "orthodox" or "conservative" elements that are anything but. With Islam, we have groups that are collectively referred to as "Islamofascist."

Therefore, the thing that concerns me most about the New Age Movement has to do with when and how it is going to be displaced with its possibly even more iniquitous Right Wing counterpart.
I read "The Hiding Place" as a young teen. That was the first time that I really began to understand what actionable evil that men chose to wield against God's children and against those humans deemed less valuable than other humans. That experience motivated me to dig deeper,learn more, and share the knowledge with others.
Because the movement of that actionable evil is often covert, slow moving (more quickly over time, obviously), and hard for people to digest or face it head on, so many people are passive. They don't want to hear about it or understand it, and they certainly don't want to deal with the truth and act immediately to prevent at least some of it.
This is the source of my fear- that history will repeat itself, many will needlessly suffer and die, and that all that I've learned, studied, and shared will be for nothing as it had little to no impact on the outcome.
Note: Iraq is calling for a withdrawal of U.S. troops by the end of 2010.

In his 2007 DVD, Mr. Herb Peters said such a withdrawal (taking place in the middle of the 7-year ENPI, no less) could lead to a security problem in the M.E.

Which could lead to the implementation of emergency powers by the 10-nation WEU in an attempt to stabilize the M.E.(EU forces already form the backbone of UNIFIL in Lebanon).
I have been reading this blog for a while now, but this is my first post. In trying to help my friends and family understand what is going on today and how it compares to scripture I came across a problem. Many of my friends and family doubt the Bible and it's prophetic abilities. I recently found a good website about Biblical prophecies and they show how two prophecies were fullfilled to the day (in one case) and the year (in the other).

I emailed my pastor about it, and he said it is reliable and accurate, so I thought I would let you guys know too. These two prophecies are about:
1. the date Jesus rode into Jeruslam (as prophesied in Daniel 9:24)
2. the year Israel was reinstated (as prophesied in Ezekiel 4:4-6)

These two links have helped many of my friends to believe in the accuracy of the Bible. I am a law student, so many of my friends have the "I'm too smart for the Bible fairy tales" opinions. Once they are shocked by the accuracy of these two prophecies it becomes much easier to talk to them about what is going on today; they think I'm a little less crazy. I then go on to talk about how many prophecies Jesus fullfilled and how it's statistically impossible for the Messiah to be anyone other than Jesus.
Michelle, couldn't be said any better! Same goes for creation; check out Dr. Hugh Ross: THR CREATOR and the COSMOS. The infallible Word and His creation: "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His handiwork."
If you like that, you will probably like this as well.

Read somewhere that EU is talking about putting more sanctions on Iran, but in the meantime what's most interesting is that Russia who supplies Iran with most of its defensive weapons is going into Georgia, and a few days ago I read that Israel was going to sell Georgia some defensive weapons. At the same time Israel is saying that they have defensive weapons against Iran's new weapons, so there is quite a bit going on behind the scenes or maybe not so behind the scenes.

Can't imagine that Russia is very happy about Israel selling weapons to one of its former republics that is not "behaving well".

By the same token, everyone talks about Iran all the time, but fails to mention that Iran would be nothing without Russia. Russia has also sold some important weapons to Syria. Both Syria and Iran supply Hizb'allah with arms, so the implications of anything that happens to Iran are quite staggering. In the meantime, the situation in Iraq is that over 60% of the Shiite population is sympathetic with Iran because they are also Shiite.

I might be missing some pieces of this, but with all our troops sitting in Iraq like sitting ducks, right next door to Iran, this is far from a simple matter, not to mention the fact that Irans nukes are strategically spread over the country so it's not a matter of a simple hit on one facility.

For all of those who don't remember, the former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder accepted a post with Gazprom, which is the Russian company that was cutting supplies and doubling prices in Ukraine and Georgia a couple of years ago. Russia supplies all of Europe with gas. The recent gas deal between Germany and Iran doesn't really sound like Europe is taking "punitive" measures along with the US.

Europe cannot really afford to get Russia mad at them if they don't have an alternate energy source, so there is a lot at stake here.

The situation in Georgia this morning looks quite serious. In our new "global village" the inter-dependance makes all of these decisions far more complex that most people realize.

When Schroeder stepped down as Chancellor and took that position, it was already a bit controversial. US has played an interesting game for years with the balance of power in that part of the world, so things are not always as straightforward as they look.

The bigger question is what will Russia do if punitive measures are taken against Iran. Iran is one of Russia's good customers for weapons, and Russia has been quietly or not so quietly arming the enemies of Israel. Since their Putin is ex-KGB, I suppose he knows exactly what he's doing. He is no Boris Yeltsin, and in the meantime Gorbachev keeps working for harmonic convergence...Go figure.

Excellent points Joyce.

In addition, I believe that the final step in bringing the US to its knees is the total collapse of its economy. With the current mortgage crisis, former middle class people here in Florida are filling soup kitchens. Crime, domestic violence and drug usage has skyrocketed over the last year. I' m sure it's still much less apparent in other states, but I can look at Florida and see firsthand how bad things can get for people who have lost jobs and businesses thanks to the collapse of the housing market, followed by the sub-prime situation. (And I live in a good area of FL!)

The skyrocketing energy prices we saw this summer will be nothing compared to what will happen to the people in America if the US goes to war with Iran. Add Russia and China into the mix and we could see a global economic collapse of proportions it's best to not even think of.

Has anyone noticed how identity theft has skyrocketed just this week on the news? Another reason for already insecure people to give in to pressure to take the mark, when the proverbial poop hits the fan.
Worries about New Age

At first I started researching and being concerned with the New Age movement, because I could see where it could effect Christianity and that message.
Some how I thought there would be somewhere I could be that was not effected by the New Age movement.

To follow oldman's analogy,
I thought I was getting into another pot after pot thinking that was fine. Then realize it was connected to the first one.

For myself, lately I have been feeling there is nothing I can do about it. I have experienced much of what other describe here. People seemed to be shocked when you tell them. Either they are shocked they are in "hot water" or they refuse to believe that the water is "hot".

I guess now I worry that it is too far and that I can't do anything about it. I really am not too sure why I am still reading about it. I guess to see where else it is.

I pray and I hope that I can be ready to recognize it so that I won't be sucked into it.

BTW I am 35 and some of this is harder for me because I have been "indoctrinated" for much of my life.
I don't want to take up time on the blog to debate about Dr. Ross. I would just encourage you to first go to

Second, If you want to talk about it off blog, feel free to email me at

I agree, I feel like I have gotten out of one pot, jumped into another, and now cautious of listening to anyone or reading anyone's books for I am aware of how far reaching this stuff goes.

I struggle finding sources I can trust, because I don't want to be a hypocrite when someone shows me my sources were more new age then the one I was trying to expose.

Young grasshopper-
there may be more of us young folk then you'd imagine here- I'm 31.

Thanks to all who answered the question I asked. I hope the discussion doesn't end here. So often furtherance of ideas stops when a new post goes up. Then we end up so scattered in our search for understanding and concentration stops.

I think when we keep chasing new information it is, to use an old word, discombobulating. If we were in a classroom and everyday the teacher just brought in the latest scientific study without ever concentrating on the basics we never would make progress in any field. It would be too overwhelming. Without planning, I think that's happening here. Everyone, including me probably, wants to bring in the latest hotest link to show something is happening.

As a result it looks as if some feel overwhelmed. Others are discouraged when they can't transmit what they already know to others. It may be because what we are trying to pass on isn't organized and instead we are trying to find the spark that will ignite others to see what we know. That does work sometimes however.

Don't get discouraged. Getting others to see what is going on sometimes feels like shoveling sand. Know that when you have introduced that grain of sand into someone's mind, you have introduced an irritant that needs time to work if it is to work. Granted some minds are so dull that nothing will get through, but those intelligent enough to question things will begin to question what they have been told to see if the irritant will go away. Know that you will just have to start the process just as Constance's book started the process in you.

Don't believe that the movement is too big to stop. Yes it is big, but you aren't expected to stop it all by yourself. There are those in the movement who would like to discourage people from doing anything by making the movement seem even larger than it is.

Back when I was in Kansas, the women I knew there knew about Humanism for years before they told me about it, saying later that they believed I was too liberal to listen to them. I ended up doing more in the fight than any of them; they gave up too quickly. Someone you are passing the information to may do more than you ever think possible.

Just do your share as you see it. Don't become discouraged. If you can only do a little bit, do it and leave it in God's hands.

For those people who know little about Orthodox Judaism, I'm concerned you painted with too broad a brush. First of all very few Orthodox Jews are involved with politics. They live in their own world and have deliberately chosen to stay away from the secular world. Second they are targeted by the New Age movement as a group to be done away with in any way possible, so blending with New Agers is out of the question.

There is one movement that some Orthodox are involved in that bothers me very much. That is the Noahide movement which I've researched in detail. While the heart of some of the people might be in the right place, this effort to make the blending of religions acceptable is foolish because both sides believe the final result will be in the growth of people following their beliefs and that isn't going to happen.

It reminds me of the Jews in a discussion group I just learned about who are followers of Alice Bailey writings and who find every excuse to show why the Bailey writings are acceptable. The end result won't be acceptable to either side and both sides will keep pushing for control. Meanwhile the Jews will have accepted New Age ideas and will be pushing them.

Conversion is one thing. Blending is another.


Worries about New Age:

Dorothy asked, and as usual I have ranted on and on. Dorothy is being a good teacher and is eliciting a kind of word association; if ranting is not your style skip my contribution.
Many NA people I know have spurned Christianity with excuses of hypocrisy, and though I don’t buy it, I understand that grasping for reasons is the nature of “man”. God said that we should come—reason together—taste and see that He is good—roll our burdens on to Him. So often the message has been don’t do this or that. Jesus said that His yoke is easy, and once we are introduced to Him who has made the thunder to roar, but has also made the Winter Wren to sing, to Him who ignited the Nova yet gently weaves blankets of snow, to Him that embraced the cross so that God could embrace me, us, then it is easy, it makes sense to embrace Him. When Christians lay stumbling blocks, other than who Jesus Christ is and what He has done for us, in front of those who are already stumbling we add to the NA; people must turn somewhere. Materialism is when they don’t want to turn anywhere: “I’ll die and I’ll rot.” “There is no meaning to life.” This is a prescription for a NA candidate. Usually science is the tool the materialist lifts up as their bible, what they can put in a test tube, right or wrong, is their drug of choice, and when they die their atoms are recycled, but the rest of their identity is oblivion.
One concern I have is that enough materialists, who can define humans as animals, will aggressively swing in the direction of being anti-Christian as a goal in itself. Since those great men who established The United States acknowledged that our freedom and liberty come from a Creator, when that is erased we will have none of it. The NA has its leaders, but they must have their grunts, and they are the hypnotized, those whose egos desperately cling to someone, something in such neurosis that they will let their fear and hatred cause them to do or allow unspeakable things. (Some “Christians” have done that) That is a problem which my children will have to face. My two sons have known from day one that Jesus is reality to me, they understand that no one is perfect, but the reality of Christ makes sense to them because it does to me, that reality speaks with love, forgiveness, and reason, not fear, not: don’t taste don’t touch. We conclude that it is grace. I’m sure I’ll hear the word “license”, but that’s for another time.

I said "in Judaism, possibly the EXTREME "orthodox" or "conservative" elements that are anything but."

I wouldn't call that painting with too broad a brush at all - especially since I qualified what I said by the use of the words "possibly" and "extreme."

I didn't single out Judaism either. I also included Catholic and non-Catholic Christianity and Islam.

With regard to Jewish heretics, the ones I am most concerned about are the modern - day heirs of Sabbatai Tzvi and Jacob Frank - more especially the heirs of Frank and their bogus "conversions" to Catholicism.

One of the modern representatives of Frank is Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain. If anyone smacks of New Age, this guy does!

He himself admits that he is regarded as a heretic by other Jews.....and even seems proud of it.

The "Reb" has reportedly "converted" to just about every major world religion at one time or another/

"A group called Donmeh West, founded in California in 1973 by Yakov Leib HaKohain, is a Neo-Sabbatian virtual community at Its teachings and practices are based on Yakov Leib's reinterpretation of Sabbatian teachings -- as well as those of Islam, Hinduism, Gnosticism and C.G. Jung -- to form a syncretistic Kabbalistic system in the antinomian tradition of Sabbatai Zevi.

Donmeh West and its leader, Yakov Leib HaKohain, have close ties with the hereditary donme of Turkey, many of whom look upon him as spearheading a spiritual revival in Sabbatianism of which they consider themselves to be a part, both in Turkey and the West. Hundreds of these "Sabbatians-by-Birth" have joined "Sabbatians-by-Choice" in the group for Neo-Sabbatian Ma'aminim created and led by Yakov Leib on Facebook at

The Israeli newspaper, Ma'ariv, recently published an interview with Yakov Leib explaining the Neo-Sabbatian revival they present him as heading. It can be read at. Ma'ariv is also translating and publishing Yakov Leib's Neo-Sabbatian writings as a series of feature articles in their spirituality section. The first of these, "Redemption through Sin," has already been published at
The man admits he isn't even a rabbi, much less an Orthodox Jew. He has no political connections similar to that of the Fellowship Group. His following isn't about to bring about the New Age. They are primarily dangerous to secular Jews who want Judaism light.
"Neturei Karteh, Satmar and some of the other extreme ultra-orthodox groups do not speak Hebrew in every day conversation, reserving its use as a "holy tongue." They speak Yiddish, and they may be far more fluent in Talmudic Aramaic and Yiddish than in Hebrew."
This may tell you more about Orthodox Judaism.

Now me, I'd consider the Reconstructionist and Humanistic Judaism groups extremists.

To anonymous 4:39

You are right -- and only God can judge the motives. I do not know his heart -- on the other hand, reading his book, it appears he was playing with fire . . . but I will agree there were enough injustices in the country he was viewing to inspire him to seek relief -- on the other hand, the syncretism in his book is obvious . . .

Correction, last post should have been to "anonymous 8:07" sorry!

Well, to ages 31 and 35

I'M ONLY SIXTEEN! Well, that may be because I was born on Leap Year Day!

A little humor can sometimes relieve the burdens. I am convinced God gave us a sense of humor as a safety valve! For that I am thankful!



That is my whole point. It is not in any way my intention to cast any aspersions on authentic Judaism when referring to heretical gnostics of any "flavor."

To do so would be to cast aspersions on my own faith which has its roots in authentic Judaism.

I don't let members of my own church off the hook either.

So please do not misunderstand me if I mention "those who SAY they are Jews but are not."

Speaking of which....I forget where I read it, but this clown Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain is even said to have tried to enter a Roman Catholic seminary to become a hopefully anyone with half a brain realizes I am not exactly talking about something "mainstream" here. :-)
Hi again,Dorothy,

I just wanted to thank you for the link on the Varieties of Orthodox Judaism. It is very informative.

In the following quote from the link you posted, Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch says almost the exact same thing as Rabbi Marvin S. Antelman in his book TO ELIMINATE THE OPIATE, Vol, 1:

"Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch commented bitterly in 1854 that was not "Orthodox" Jews who introduced the word "orthodox" into Jewish discussion. It was the modern "progressive" Jews who first applied the name to "old," "backward" Jews as a derogatory term. This name was at first resented by "old" Jews. And rightfully so...
Yet so pervasive was the use of the term that in 1886, when Hirsch established an alliance of the traditionalist congregations in Europe, he named it the "Freie Vereinigung für die Interessen des Orthodoxen Judentums" (Free Union for the Interests of Orthodox Judaism)!


Rabbi Antelman also stated that whatever disagreements there were among the Jews over interpretations of the Torah prior to the "Enlightenment," no one ever dared to deny that God was the author of the Torah.

"Accordingly, the term Orthodox came to be utilized in common parlance as synonymus with a backward, non-progressive, unsophisticated and reactionary Jew. Geiger was not alone in setting up so-called "enlightened" scholarly circles. A scheme was developed in these circles to talk up the branch concept through a nucleus of scholars. A rationale and an impetus were developed for the acceptance of a branch concept in Judaism. Judaism, which had not had branches, was to be praised for its diversity. Anyone who spoke of a united Judaism was to be sneered at as an ignoramus who failed to recognize that 'Judaism is not monolithic.' .........

.....Geiger sought to resurrect the conflict of the Sadducees and Pharisees through his scholarly studies of their historical period. His studies were first rate, but through them he wanted to plant the idea very carefully in people's minds that branch and schism were not new to Judaism........

...Geiger and his colleagues were, of course, notoriously intellectually dishonest. What they failed to tell the masses was that, although there had existed before in Jewish history such diverse groups as the Sadducees, Pharisees, Rabbanites, and Karaites, that Judaism had survived via the Pharisees and Rabbanites and that even their opponents never dared question the basic validity of the concept of "Torah min hashamaim" = that the torah was a divinely revealed document.

Both Sadducee and Karaite had challenged the derivation of specific laws in Judaism. their dissension, though intolerable to Judaism and Torah values, questioned fundamental interpretation of the Torah, but never cast doubts on its Divinely revealed origin. These schisms were not branches of Judaism. Both so-called Reform and Conservative Judaism are not brnches of Judaism, but stand outside its pale because both hold that God did not write the Torah, but rather that men created it. Conservative differed from Reform in one respect: that since Reform had accepted the notion that the Torah was man made and it could reject all of Torah Law with impunity, only retaining the universal values of Judaism, the conservatives felt that much of the ceremonial, ritual and Halakhic norms of Judaism should be "conserved," not because the
Torah was divinely revealed, but because these things were culturally important and gave Judaism a national character. Judaism culd never tolerate even lesser dissensions on the scale of the Karaites and Sadducees, and could never make peace with these movements.

The stage of going from authentic Judaism to the stage of complete rejection of the Divine origin of the Torah was not instantaneous..."

Rabbi Marvin S. Antelman

(An in-depth study of Communist and conspiratorial group efforts to destroy Jews and Judaism)

c. 1974, 2004 pp. 18-19
Printed in the State of Israel

Rabbi Antelman's comments would appear to square with your concerns about reconstructionist Judaism which reportedly

"...originated as the radical left branch of Conservative Judaism before it splintered. The movement developed from the late 1920s to 1940s, and it established a rabbinical college in 1968.

There is substantial theological diversity within the movement. Halakha is not considered binding, but is treated as a valuable cultural remnant that should be upheld unless there is reason for the contrary. The movement emphasizes positive views towards modernism, and considers religious custom to be subservient to personal autonomy. Reconstructionists find traditional theistic views found in Judaism to be incompatible with modern thought and propose a naturalistic outlook more.....

Here is a link to an article on Humanistic Judaism for anyone interested.

Dorothy, you are well justified in considering reconstructionist and humanistic Jewish groups extremist


"HUMANISTIC JUDAISM is a movement within Judaism that emphasizes Jewish culture and history - rather than belief in God - as the sources of Jewish identity. Its rituals and ceremonies do not include prayer or any invocation of a deity. Its philosophical outlook is derived from Humanism or Secular Humanism, and its beliefs may be summarized as follows:

A Jew is someone who identifies with the history, culture and future of the Jewish people;
Judaism is the historic culture of the Jewish people, and religion is only one part of that culture;
People possess the power and responsibility to shape their own lives independent of supernatural authority;
Ethics and morality should serve human needs, and choices should be based upon consideration of the consequences of actions rather than pre-ordained rules or commandments; and,
Jewish history, like all history, is a purely human and natural phenomenon. Biblical and other traditional texts are the products of human activity and are best understood through archaeology and other scientific analysis." more.......
The rabbis who were founders of these groups signed Humanist Manifesto II. The Reconstructionists were founded by an individual who left the Institue for Policy Studies, a communist front organization. Many Jews bought into the Catalogues put out by this group. The Reconstructionist movement used all of the clothing, food, symbols, rituals etc. used by the Orthodox to keep their community together and subverted them to another cause. Jews who had no idea what was going on didn't know where the Reconstructionist movement was taking them, and many joined following a false interpretation of Judaism.

Since the subversion of Judaism started to take place in the late '1700s and early 1800s, Christians should note what happened and use what happened to protect themselves, but they probably won't.


While the subversion of Judaism was taking place in the late 1700's and early 1800's , the same thing was happening with the Catholic Church......and very likely with the authentically Christian Orthodox and Protestant communions as well. All the major religions were being subjected to heretical pantheistic/pagan gnostic encroachments by entities embodying an occult syncretistic movement.

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but it is my understanding that in Judaism as well as in Roman Catholicism, there is considered to be such a thing as authentic mysticism (a.k.a. "private revelation") - authentic for Jews in so far as it does not contradict the Torah or Mishna, and authentic for Christians in so far as it does not contradict Scripture and Sacred Tradition (in some ways the Catholic version of Mishna).

Is it true that for Jews this authentic mysticism goes by the name Kabbalah? Or is there another name for it?

In some research I did before reading Rabbi Antelman's books, I read that the departure from classic Lurianic Kabbalah began with Nathan of Gaza who was a false prophet and Sabbatai Tsvi's "front man" so to speak.

Thus began what came to be known as "Sabbatean Kabbalah." According to the late Father Malachi Martin, it would appear that a bogus "Kabbalah" was constantly being confused with the other traditional Kabbalah, which, according to Father Martin, dates all the way back to Elias the Prophet where he said it had its origins.

Just a little about Father Martin -when he was still a Jesuit, Father Martin received a bachelor's degree in Semitic languages and Oriental history and followed parallel studies in Assyriology at Trinity College Dublin. Father Martin also studied at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem specializing in intertestamentary studies and knowledge of Jesus as transmitted in Hebrew and Arabic manuscripts. He did early and seminal work on the Dead Sea Scrolls, and published some two dozen articles on Semitic paleography in learned journals.

While in Rome, Father Martin was a professor at the Pontifical Biblical Institute of the Vatican, where he taught Hebrew, Aramaic, paleography and scripture.

My point is that while Father Martin may have been a controversial person in certain ways, he was nevertheless a very well-educated man.

I don't necessarily agree with everything that Dr. Makov has to say, but he is pretty accurate in describing Rabbi Antelman's assessment of the Sabbatean Kabbalists:

"If Mr. Shack is correct, historians, educators and journalists collaborate by upholding a false reality and distracting us from the truth. Our world, our perception of the human experience, are shaped by an occult secret society. Our culture is an elaborate psy-op.

Obviously, the Sabbateans and their descendants should consume our attention. Instead, they are hidden from view. They were decisive in the so-called "Enlightenment," "secularism" and "modernism," which are but baby steps to their Satanism.

According to Rabbi Marvin Antelman, they believe sin is holy and should be practised for its own sake. Since the Messiah will come when people either become righteous or totally corrupt, the Sabbateans opted for debauchery: "Since we cannot all be saints, let us all be sinners."

Their blasphemous benediction "who permits the forbidden" later became the Illuminist "do as thou wilt" the expression of their "religious" feeling. Totally amoral, they believe the "end justifies the means." ("To Eliminate the Opiate,"Vol. 2 p. 87)

In 1756, Jacob Frank and his followers were excommunicated by the rabbis. Antelman says the Sabbateans were behind the Reform, Liberal and Revolutionary movements of the Nineteenth century. They were also behind the Reform and Conservative movements in Judaism, including the "Haskalah" i.e. Jewish assimilation. In other words, Jews have been influenced by the Sabbateans and don't even know it.

That is their tactic. They don't advocate a Satanic kingdom. They gently steer you that way by questioning the existence of God, by demanding "sexual liberation," "independence" for women, "internationalism," "diversity" and "religious tolerance." These all have a hidden agenda: to undermine "all collective forces except our own."


As I have mentioned before heretical "Christian" gonosticism didn't originate with authentic Judaism. It originated with the Samaritan Simon Magus who, according to tradition, was a disciple of another Samaritan named Dositheus. The Samaritans officially broke off all ties with Israel during the Maccabean War of Independence against Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

"Antiochus IV Epiphanes and hellenization
In the second century BC a particularly bitter series of events eventually led to a revolution.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes was on the throne of the Seleucid Empire from 175 to 163 BC. His determined policy was to Hellenize his entire kingdom and standardize religious observance. According to 1 Maccabees 1:41-50 he proclaimed himself the incarnation of the Greek god Zeus and mandated death to anyone who refused to worship him. A major obstacle to his ambition was the fidelity of the Jews to their historic religion.

The universal peril led the Samaritans, eager for safety, to repudiate all connection and kinship with the Jews. The request was granted. This was evidently the final breach between the two groups indicated in John 4:9, "For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans."

Several centuries before the birth of Jesus, the Samaritans had built their own temple on Mt. Gerizim to rival the one in Jerusalem. Here, they offered sacrifices according to the Mosaic code. Anderson notes that during the reign of Antiochus IV (175-164 BC):

“ the Samaritan temple was renamed either Zeus Hellenios (willingly by the Samaritans according to Josephus or, more likely, Zeus Xenios, (unwillingly in accord with 2 Macc. 6:2) Bromiley, 4.304). ”

Josephus Book 12, Chapter 5 quotes the Samaritans as saying:

“ We therefore beseech thee, our benefactor and saviour, to give order to Apolonius, the governor of this part of the country, and to Nicanor, the procurator of thy affairs, to give us no disturbances, nor to lay to our charge what the Jews are accused for, since we are aliens from their nation and from their customs, but let our temple which at present hath no name at all, be named the Temple of Jupiter Hellenius. ”
“ Shortly afterwards, the king sent Gerontes the Athenian to force the Jews to violate their ancestral customs and live no longer by the laws of God; and to profane the Temple in Jerusalem and dedicate it to Olympian Zeus, and the one on Mount Gerizim to Zeus, Patron of Strangers, as the inhabitants of the latter place had requested.—II Maccabees 6:1–2 ”

In 167 BC the Seleucid ruler Antiochus Epiphanes set up an altar to Zeus over the altar of burnt offerings in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. He also sacrificed a pig on the altar in the Temple in Jerusalem. This event is known as the "abomination of desolation".

The authority of the high priesthood was severely damaged when first Jason and then Meneleus bought their office from Antiochus.

The persecution and death of faithful Jewish persons who refused to worship and kiss Antiochus' image eventually led to a revolt led by Judas Maccabeus and his family.

Judas's priestly family, the Hasmoneans, introduced a dynasty that ruled during a period of conflict, with tensions arising both from within the family as well as from external enemies.

This Samaritan Temple at Mount Gerizim was destroyed by John Hyrcanus in about 128 BC, having existed about 200 years. Only a few stone remnants of it exist today."

The Books of the Maccabees are to be found in the Septuagint translation of the Old Testament which is the official canon of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Catholic communions.
The only person I know who writes about the Sabbateans is Barry Chamish, Rabbi Antelman's friend. I knew nothing about the group until I read Antelman's book. Chamish writes about the Jews who are selling Israel out as being part of that group. The orgy and sin stories appear to have no ongoing history after their original appearance in the past.

While the idea of orgies might sound titilating, the people Chamish names as possible Sabbateans are old. Madelaine Albright in an orgy doesn't quite make porn film material.

Serious study of Kabbalah has so many restrictions on it that it appears to be done mostly by old Orthodox rabbis who have spent their days studying the Torah and Talmud in great depth. Stories in Jewish publications are about the history of it. I've never heard a rabbi give a sermon using material from it.

Understanding what the Orthodox write can be difficult. Here are a few lines from a frum humor website on how to mess with BTs, that is Baal Teshuvahs.

"Hide all the transliterated siddurim and give them one of those free breslover ones the dudes hand out in the street,

Alleviate their fears by saying the prayers of tefilas haderech and oray minay bisumin were made to show appreciation for drug use,

Convince them to buy those ticheles tzitzis,"

They know what they are talking about. I don't. Now add the mystical ideas discussed in this kind of language.

An Orthodox rabbi wrote a paper on why the theory of Universal Energy connected to New Age is to be avoided. Here are a few lines from his paper.

"The focus here is (1), the concept, the dai’yoh (or shitoh).
Their own sources clearly show that their conception of ‘universal-energy’ [=UE] involves
k’fira b’ikkar (heretical beliefs regarding HaShem),
and [specifically] avoidah-zorah (acceptance of false god(s), or distortions of Beliefs in HaShem).

This is because:
UE is imagined to be the creator of all, but not separate from that which it is imagined to create.
UE is often imagined to be able to help or harm (maitiv u’mairi’ah) Man through its own [imagined] will (often called ‘intelligence’). This is classical avoidah-zorah; see Chazon Ish Y”D 62:19.
UE is imagined to be mutable (changeable); see ibid. regarding hish’tanus."

Even with the translation into English for some of the words, this is not information that one can easily wrap one's head around.

Yes, there are individuals who study Kabbalah. I've never met one. I've never been tempted to find out what I think about it. Sorry I can't help you.


LOL! I have a hard time envisioning Madelaine Albright in an orgy myself.

I vaguely knew about Sabbatai Tzvi as I studied gnosticism, but until recently I didn't know he started a movement continued in the person of his heir Jacob Frank.

This was because the focus of my studies was on apostate Catholic occultists, not apostate Jewish ones.

The "orgy and sin" stories are part of the gnostic tradition in general that originated with the pre-Christian Eastern pagan mystery cults, wormed their way into the Greco-Roman cultures (they were even despised by honest pagans who lived according to the Natural Law), and finally tried to Judaism Christianity and Islam but were not entirely successful in doing so with any of the Abrahamic reigions.

This is because the gnostic fraud is easily exposed by pointing out that in the last analysis what gnostics claimed to KNOW is something which in the last analysis is no less a matter of FAITH than the divinely revealed Torah or New Testament or even the Koran which followers of Islam believe to be Divinely revealed.

These antinomian Sabbatean blasphemers are not authentic Jews and as for the so-called "mysticism" they espouse....well.....the devil also has his "mystics."

We Catholics have more than our fair share of these critters pretending to be "Catholic" as do other religious groups!

Whether they pretend to be Jewish, Christian, Islamic, it is almost invariably the SAME CIRCUS WITH DIFFERENT CLOWNS, and, as the Irish would say, "the woods is full of 'em!"
You have a wide range of knowledge about mysticism, gnosticism, secret societies, etc.
It's a long shot I know, but did you ever come across information about a Peacock cult in England? It doesn't seem to be connected with the Cult of the Peacock Angel or the Yezidi tribes. When I read the essay about the cult in Daraul's (pseudonym) book, I tried to get more information, but none was available.

This was the book:

This is the author:

The cult seems to have been composed of very wealthy people. Some have suggested the information was actually fictional. Shah (real name) seems to have traveled in circles where such things could be found.

The description of the group was very intriguing. If you ever came across anything connected, please let me know.


The only other Peacock Cult I am aware of associated with England is a certain Peacock cult associated with "Master Morya" the guru of H.B. Blavatsky. She claims to have met him in London. "Morya" means "peacock."

I am now intrigued, so I am going to do some more digging, because this grouop may have been mentioned by Sri Aurobindo, but for now here is a link that I hope you will find helpful.

I have to run for now, but I will be checking in later. Have a good read.


Get a load out of this one! Scroll down to......

The Truth Behind the Christ Myth: The Redemption of the Peacock Angel
If you get a chance, see if you can get the Secret Societies book out of the library.

Before I try to get a used copy of the book you pointed to, I think I'll see if I can get it through interlibrary loan.

I wouldn't have put the two together, but maybe it's worthwhile checking to see if there are any clues there. Maybe I just can't believe that supposedly high level people can believe in such stupid things. Plese contact me through Constance so we don't lose a follow-up on this. For me it's one of those unsolved things that just lingers but doesn't seem to have relevance to what we are talking about on this blog.


I think the Peacock Cult does have relevance to what we are talking about because I think that the cult in England that we are looking for may indeed be connected in some way to Yazidism/The Peacock Angel Cult which was reportedly smuggled into England in 1913 by "a mysterious Syrian."

It may even be one and the same cult -especially on account of hints I have come across that appear to tie it directly and/or indirectly to H.P. Blavatsky vis a vis "Master Morya" ("Morya" = "Peacock") and Sri Aurobindo the spiritual partner of The Mother who was a student of Max Theon.

The Mother claimed that H.P. Blavatsky was also one of Max Theon's students and that Theon taught Blavatsky the "Kabbalah."

But here I want to make a distinction regarding "Kabbalah"....namely that the so-called "Kabbalah" reportedly taught to Blavatsky by Theon was likely a "Kabbalah" of the "Sabbatean/Frankist" kind - especially in light of the orders founded by Theon and his alleged ties to "Fratres Lucis" and the "Asiatic Brethren."


"Edward D. Hoch's 1965 short novel, People of the Peacock, featured an "Order of the Peacock Angel" which matches the description given in Secret Societies Yesterday and Today:

The society had an uncertain origin in the area that is now Syria and Iraq, some hundreds of years ago. It was imported into England by a mysterious Syrian back in 1913, and has enjoyed some success there. ... The rites of the Peacock Angel consist mostly of white-robed worshippers dancing madly before an eight-foot ebony statue of a peacock. [2]

The novel describes a chapter of the organization in the United States run by a British emigrant.

Yasidism appears to be a branch of Sufism (heretical "gnosticised' Islam). Yazidism is reportedly regarded as "devil worship" by followers of authentic Islam.


Isma'ili, Yezidi, Sufi.

"...Can we lay out a system that approximates the Yezidi religion, including its magical practices? Well, no. Not really. Nor would we, if we could. There are recent works available, in the above $100 range, that may assist one in piecing this together.

In our own Western Occult Traditions, we can draw from elements in the classical Agrippa Magical system, and, later, in the Golden Dawn Magical system. Further, we can derive from elements to be found in the esoteric materials Albert Pike wrote, including Morals and Dogma, The Magnum Opus, The Liturgies of the AASR, the Legenda and Readings of the AASR, Sepher ha-Debarim, or the Book of the Words; Lecture on Masonic Symbolism, etc. These are all available in reprint editions elsewhere.

Also, one can study the writings of Max Theon, who seems to have gotten some of this tradition, and to have embodied it in his Cosmic Tradition series. And, too, one of his spiritual descendants, Sri Aurobindo, whose writings are pure gems of nectar.

Finally, we can turn to Gurdjieff, and derive plenty, and enjoy ourselves as we go, if we know that the object is not in being a student, or a disciple of the teachings, but lies in being a Master, for how can one aspire to Mastery if one does not possess it to begin with, yea, how can one aspire to Mastery if one does not possess it to begin with? more....."

From the following article, it would appear that Yazidism has certain similarities to the angel-worshipping/angel-invokong "Martinism" of Martinez de Pasqually who founded the "Elus Cohen" groups in Europe in the 18th-century. Pasqually's Martinism is believed to have become a key element of Voudon - a.k.a. "Voodoo" vis a vis groups Pasqually is said to have established in Haiti after he moved there in 1772 due to an ever increasing amount of internal conflicts and strides within
the Elus Cohen Order.


Many of the people Blavatsky was associated with - such as Papus - were Martinists as well as Theosophists.

There was a Louis Claude de St. Martin who was a disciple of Martinez de Pasqually and formed his own group which was less "theurgically" ("magickally") oriented. "Martinism" can be used to refer the groups founded by both of these men, but Pasqually's "Martinism" has the most resemblance to Sabbatean/Frankism on account of its reported "sex-magickal" practices......a kind of prelude to those of the O.T.O.

In your post you said:

" Maybe I just can't believe that supposedly high level people can believe in such stupid things."

I think it was G. K. Chesterton who once said that when people stop believing in God, they do not simply start believing in "nothing." They start believing in "anything."

Perhaps one entree of the Peacock Angel Cult into English high society was through Max Theon's wife Alma Theon - nee Mary Chrystine Woodroffe Ware (or Miriam Lin Woodroffe.
"Without her abilities, the Tradition and the Cosmic Philosophy would never have come about. She was a young English (or Irish?) poetess when she and Théon were introduced at one of the parties of London's high society. There was an instant raport, a deep-seated deep-seated harmony of being and connection as soulmates. By May 1884 Max and Alma were going to theatre together. On 21 March 1885, they were married, with Alma's long-time friend Teresa as one of the two witnesses. The three of them stayed at Alma's Marylebone for a while, before relocating the following year to the Continent. In December 1887, the Théons left France for Algiers. After several months' search they finally found a place in the suburbs of Tlemcen. They acquired, in Madame Théon's name, a large villa on a hillside with extensive grounds. On May 1, 1889, they moved to Zarif, in Tlemcen. It was there that the real work of dissemination of occult knowledge more.....
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