Tuesday, April 29, 2008
chapters 6 through the beginning
of chapter 8, the scene is set in
chapters 4 and 5 with the words
to John the Revelator " Come up
The scene is set with the two sets
of twelve elders: the Twelve tribes
of Israel and the twelve Apostles of
the Lord being around the throne
The Lamb is given preeminance into
the "midst" of the elders which would
be another way of saying on, or
very close to, the throne.
Jesus is both the Lamb and
He is Alpha and Omega
Author and finisher
Beginning and end
King and servant
Glorious and humble
This is the video to me that was the most telling, his diplomacy video one.
It showed up first yesterday.
To me it sounds like something to do with the sun, like solar.
Very interesting video of Javier in action. There was a creepy part at 1:24-29 of the video, was that his double?
Can someone please explain to me why the EU is perceived with such suspicion? I understand that there is concern that the 'office' of Solana might be that of the antichrist but on what basis is this founded and with what certainty? Is there any possibility that this might be a red herring and that such a role within the UN might exist or yet be created?
As an Englishwoman living in rural Scotland I find it interesting that there is such a fixation on Europe and yet sometimes so very little understanding of the vastly different cultures around Europe. Like many Europeans I don't understand them myself and yet one viewing of the annual 'Eurovision Song Contest' clearly demonstrates what a mixed bag of folks we all are. :)
In Britain, generally speaking, we hear very little about the EU and I think most of us have no idea what our EMPs (European Member of Parliament) do or even who they are! Our currency remains sterling not euro. Our laws our British, our native language is English. We still drive on the left.
As an EU citizen my experience has proven that any EU regulations that impact upon me have served to make things safer or more humane ... I now drink clear treated water instead of dirty yellow water straight from the Loch, our tiny slaughterhouse follows humane practice and EU funding is available to help vulnerable island communities and wildlife. And, European driving licenses and passports have now replaced British ones.
I enjoy living in Europe - a continent rich in history and culture. Is Europe not trying, in it's own way, to find a means to unite it's many national states and help it's neighbour and yet allow each to retain their own identity and to help protect local products from copy-cat trading. I do not mean this to sound harsh but it seems as if it's OK for American states to work together and pool some resources and yet not for European countries.
I am a Christian, I do believe that all have missed the mark and that there is salvation in no other name than Jesus. And yet repsectfully, I struggle to bear witness to much of the dialogue that I read here. I find I am unable to accept the concerns shared by so many and yet I am also unable to dismiss these concerns totally out of hand ... it's confusing and confusion is not of the Lord so I need help from my brothers and sisters in Christ in understanding what it is that you see happening please, especially so because this stuff happens 'under the radar' ... and please if any help is offered could you use 'layman's' language ... if what you are seeing is correct then it is vital that those of us across the pond with votes and political representatives see it clearly also and can pray and act accordingly. :)
For starters, you may wish to read Herb Peter's free, online book re. the EU and Dr. Solana's rise to power:
(Or go to www.fulfilledprophecy.com
and click on the book link, on the right.)
Secular organizations have also been sounding a warning alarm (i.e., Statewatch of the U.K., believe it is covered in Chapter 10 of Herb's book).
Hope it's helpful.
"Can someone please explain to me why the EU is perceived with such suspicion? I understand that there is concern that the 'office' of Solana might be that of the antichrist but on what basis is this founded and with what certainty?"
I'll attempt an answer here.
"And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names." (Revelation 13:1)
"And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows." (Daniel 7:20)
There are 10 Horns (plus an 11th which will emerge as the Antichrist). Included among these 10 Horns are the 7 Heads. This has been interpreted as a group of nations which will form a single union of nations that will make up "the Beast" of Revelation.
Of these 10 "Horns" (with 3"fallen"), those "Horns" (or nations), which remain, appear to be those nations which now make up the European Union.
Javier Solana appears to meet most of the biblical criteria. (For more information, please check out all of the research that Constance has done so far.)
I think "Javier" means "Savior" and "Solana" means "light" (or sun).
(originally posted on the wrong thread)\...
Spend a couple of weeks reading the above Eurosceptic blogspot as well as others.
No offense meant, but it appears pretty obvious you know about as much the EU and people over here know about the American government.
The above website doesn't deal with the New Age movement or Solana, but the writers are quite informed about the changes that have been brought about under the EU umbrella.
I listened to the interview when it originally aired -- I was not overly impressed with the interviewee, but there is still a lot of interesting information that will get one thinking.
Kathleen Keating is, in my estimation, a great researcher and interviewer -- like Constance she is congenitally incapable of conducting a dull interview regardless of the topic or guest at hand.
2. Well done last night Rudi on a very successful show -- you are a very good at presenting your research in a radio show format and the chemistry between you and Constance was outstanding.
This is New Age creepy and you must see this sophisticated evil creed, enter with your armor on please.
What is the great invocation?
his is the heart of the new age movement
Take a good look at the logo
Barak Obama logo
Some really creepy people are visiting this blog these days. On the extremely long thread an anonymous person posted a series of pictures meant to show that Hitler was supported by the Catholic church. The poster didn't think anyone would go back to the source of the photos which was http://www.nobeliefs.com/ but I did. It is truly a vile site, but it does show what looney bins we are contending with.
I brought this up to the front so that Constance can easily find it. More than one of us needs to call to her attention what is happening.
Thanks for bringing this to all our attention and for following up on that anonymous post -- I am not going to look at the site -- at the moment, based on your description, I don't have the spiritual strength to go down that road.
Because you have Constance's ear, I will hope and pray that on foot of your warning she takes action by either 1) addressing the post in question or 2) removing it from the blog. My gut reaction is that the best option is to delete it from the blog.
I also noticed a post from Paul (or someone claiming to be Paul) this morning on the Solana Youtube thread. The post is addressed to me, and he states in it that Constance is Catholic not Protestant.
I have always thought Constance was Protestant (She has talked on the radio before about her former minister that left to go to Moody Institute, for example). If she is in fact Catholic, I would like to know so I will not continue to refer to her as Protestant.
As her close friend, would you be able to clarify?
If I am correct that Constance is Protestant, and the post signed by "Paul" is a falsehood, this is a very disturbing development. As irritating as Paul can be, I do not believe he would deliberately present a lie such as this about Constance--I would question if this is someone other than Paul claiming to be Paul who is spreading this lie.
I am getting ahead of myself though. Would you please take a look at the post in question and let us know?
Thanking you as always for your eagle eye.
Correction -- the post to which I am referring is not on the Solana Youtube threat, but on the "Black Horse" thread, time of day 7:01.
Is anyone familiar with the work of researcher Mark Watson?
I've just glanced over some of his materials very quickly and I think he is intersting -- he is a Christian, and his home page has a nice disclaimer:
This site categorically rejects partisan politics, hate and ignorance.
Be Stupid And Evil Somewhere Else!
I am curious as to whether anyone has done enough reading to determine whether he actually lives up to it, LOL
I saw that and thought the same as you. People ought to be more careful about their sources, but the photos look pretty authentic to me. What do you think?
Anyway, I just wanted to send you some info from credible sources, so,,,
There seems to be conflicting testimony about Pope Pius XII. Most who defend him are Catholics, although I grant you that that one rabbi wrote a book. There are lots of other Jews that were furious when he was brought up for beatification.
The Catholic Church didn't send their representative to Yad Vashem to honor the victims because they didn't like a picture that was on display. It sound like the accounts of him saving thousands of Jews have been pretty well discredited.
I think the main problem is that the Vatican hasn't opened its archives, so that makes it tough to know what really happened. I do know that the Church was helping Nazis escape to S. America. They weren't the only ones who did that of course, but they did that nonetheless. This is a very fair and balanced article that puts things in perspective by a very respected Professor of Holocaust History:
The history of anti-Semitism in the Catholic Church goes back a long way. It starts with the changing of the calendar, in 325 a.d. continues on through the Inquisition up to the Shoah and beyond.
The Catholic Church are not the only ones who weren't charitable toward Jews so I don't want to single them out. A lot of Muslims aren't too fond of them either, and various other groups.
I don't want to whine about anti-Semitism, but we need to make sure that at least as it concerns us, things like this don't happen again and we need to understand the reasons for it. From the looks of things, we might have a repeat. The Bible says we will, so we do want to be on the right side of the battle when it comes.
To deny this history isn't helpful. Reconciliation is not possible by sweeping things under the carpet. I think one of the causes for this is that the Catholic Church for many centuries believed that they replaced Israel. This is called "Replacement Theology". That would mean that the "eternal covenants" God made with Israel, no longer apply, which would include things such as the Land, to be His treasured possession etc. I'm sure you agree that when God says "olam" He means "forever".
They thought that since as they put, "the Jews killed Jesus" that this was their just due.
The forgot to read Rav Shaul in Romans Chapter 11. A passage well worth taking a look at.
There are some Catholics that have tried to make an effort to mend the fences, but as I said before we'll see what role the Catholic Church plays when it comes to Jerusalem. I am not a gambler, but I'll bet my bottom dollar,( which isn't worth much these days,) that it won't line up with Scripture.
Just the fact that the Pope approves of the UN gets me a little worried, since UN's position on the Land has been consistently biased against Israel. Here, I found you the transcript, in case you didn't listen to the speech:
Some people think the time of Jacob's trouble is only for the Jews. The problem with that theory is the Jews aren't the only descendants of Jacob. I believe the Whole House of Israel will be persecuted
( the house of Judah, the house of Israel and the nations that attach themselves to the God of Israel).
In the Shoah, there were godly people who stood up for the Jews. They did it at the expense of their own lives. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was one of these. He resisted the Nazi regime and paid with his life. He was treated just like the Jews or maybe worse. You should read about him if you've never heard his story. That is the meaning of being "Yeshua-like" That's what He did. He gave up His life so we could have life.
Liberal theology was a huge factor that contributed to allowing the Hitler regime to come to power. That's another reason it's so important for people to know their Bibles. Here's a little info on Bonhoeffer:
By the way, part of my family came from Bavaria, where he came from and they didn't survive either.
Sorry, my posts are so long, but I think a lot.
Shalom to you,
I don't believe that Constance is Catholic. Having said that, I don't believe that it matters.
The focus is the New Age movement.
If you have followed her commentaries and listened long enough, you will know about her beginnings in researching.
I believe the story is as follows: She went to her own church and they dismissed her research and the first real support she got was from a Catholic priest.
I am not going to go to the website either.
As for the "paul" in the post that posted at 7:01, get a grip and let me tell you something.
I am sure that you are so perfect in your Christian walk that you can quickly point out the deficiencies in other peoples walk.
Don't forget about Matthew 7:3-4.
That is where Jesus said, "And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but don not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck out of your eye': and look a plank is in your own eye?"
Perhaps that you are not aware or have not read Constance's book "Hidden Dangers". She said in there it is one of the New Age goals to have Catholics and Protestants fight each other so that they won't notice them and their infiltration into each churches.
Could you please tell yourself before you post that the focus is the New Age movement?
That can be found in Catholic Churches, Protestant Churches, and in Jewish community as well.
Thank you I will get off my soapbox now.
One time Dorothy told me that Oprah's guest are well thought out and there for a reason.
For the record, I don't know much about David Blaine, except I find him creepy.
According to Constance's profile on Wikipedia:
Cumbey was born as Constance Elizabeth Butler to a family of English, German, and French ancestry in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and raised as a Seventh-day Adventist.
She was the first of seven children born to her parents. Her paternal grandparents were both raised as Quakers (Society of Friends) but after their marriage converted to the Church of the Nazarene. Her paternal grandmother was a Church of the Nazarene Sunday School teacher for upwards of 50 years. Her father's cousin, the Rev. Russell Butler, was a longtime Quaker pastor in Indianapolis. On her paternal side, Cumbey's mother, Margaret, as well as an uncle joined the Seventh Day Adventist Church as adults.
(Constance can verify if the above is accurate.)
I don't believe that Constance is Catholic. Having said that, I don't believe that it matters.
The focus is the New Age movement.
Thank you for your excellent post all around, straight to the point and one with which many here I hope can most certainly agree. As they say, "brevity is the soul of wit" , LOL.
As regards my interest in Constance's religious affiliation-- I mentioned it only in response to the strange post from "Paul" where he admonished me for referring twice to Constance twice as "Protestant" when she is actually Catholic. It confused me and I wanted clarification.
My classification of Constance as Protestant by the way was for identification purposes only in the context of a particular discussion; I also referred to Dorothy as Jewish and myself and RL as Catholic.
Not blowing my horn - just giving a suggestion to any & all who want to praise the Lord daily - have your devotions, and share with the world how great is our God.
Shalom to you,
Thanking you, too, for reminding us once again that brevity is indeed the soul of wit.
I realise I am breaking my self-imposed rule by engaging with you once again but I do so only momentarily for the single discrete purpose stated above. After all as the great syncretist Emerson famously said, "Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds."
Regarding your question on concentration camps in the U.S.:
Halliburton's subcontractor, KBR has built "holding centers" all over the country. Of course, the "reasoning" given has to do with Homeland Security, illegal immigration etc. Only time will tell.
Stay tuned, everybody.
Regarding David Blaine -- I agree with you he's creepy. Oprah has gone so far in "outing" herself in the last few months that I don't doubt this show has been arranged for a reason.
The agenda may very well be part of the gradual conditioning of Jill Sixpack (her viewers) to accept "supernatural miracles."
I'd like to think Oprah is merely hypnotised not a hypnotizer -- I appreciated her for many years and still (this is painful to admit) buy and enjoy her magazine. I overlooked her New Age tendencies for years as a "quirk" because I found her so likeable.
I've had a change of heart though since her embrace of Tolle and pushing of Marianne Williamson and Obama. Her demanor gets more and more arrogant each time I watch her (only in clips -- I don't watch the show). It's almost like she's been possessed (my oh my, why would I EVER think that?)
Can you provide a link on this? I am interested in following up,
Always so nice to hear from you....
You must have missed this part of my post, so I'll resend it to you:
Liberal theology was a huge factor that contributed to allowing the Hitler regime to come to power. That's another reason it's so important for people to know their Bibles. Here's a little info on Bonhoeffer:
We might be able to learn something from this today. You think?
I am comfortable with the designation "Christian" only. I have noticed that more often Catholics will listen to Protestants than vice versa, but I believe it is through Jesus Christ that we are saved and that should be a common belief for Catholics and Protestants alike -- if they are Christian! As the last anonymous pointed out, Paul's info may well have come from the ubiquitous Catholic bashing Brother Eric who I outed as a New Ager!
Here is that link you requested.
Also, if you type in a "key" word (as discussed in my earlier post), you can obtain more informtion.
Oh, and one of their other reasons for building these holding or detention centers is in case of natural disasters (vs. "unnatural" disasters maybe?)
(From Anonymous - of 10:19 AM)
I didn't know about the history of "Brother Eric" (LOL)-- that would certainly explain a lot. This area of research certainly brings out more than its fair share of attention-seeking "sh*t stirrers" doesn't it--you let your guard down at your peril.
If Paul's internet identity has been hijacked temporarily in an attempt to cause more dissention and confusion by "outing" you as a Catholic, I'm sure the real Paul (Portland, Maine) will be around to speak for himself soon enough.
If that was the "real Paul" who made that claim, I'd say he's probably feeling more than a little embarassed...and hopefully will use this incident as an opportunity to reflect and learn.
Thank you, Constance for your brilliant diplomatic skills -- gently applied (as always) with both class and dignity.
I've been kind of "in and out" of this blog lately -- due to other priorities and responsibilities.)
I will re-post exerpts from a portion of documentation I was able to track down. Included is a link to a New York Times article which may be the same one anonymous 12:58 pm is pointing out.
I wasn't able to find it using the link anonymous gave.
There are other reports some may accept as more credible, documenting the Department of Homeland Security / Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR) contract. The stated purpose of the "detention centers" is for the detaining of "illegals".
**Fox News Wednesday, June 07, 2006
**New York Times February 4, 2006
**Market Watch Jan. 24, 2006
Doing a search at the United States Department of Justice website using the terms “detention facility contract”
Produced many, many documents
one of which was this “ Strategic Goal IV Report”, where over 1,900
detention facilities are mentioned (page 4) in it’s annual report.
**U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement: ICE
There is much more information about The Military Commissions Act of 2006
Many reports on first read, might appear to have no basis in fact. However, my own views, and past trust in matters relating to our government, are undergoing
some serious re-evaluating.
"Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee."
But to get to the point I was
under the impression for a
long time now that Constance is
a Roman Catholic.
Obviously I was wrong.
I'm very sorry Constance. It was
just a mistake. I must have read a
slew of comments and got one
of yours jumbled with someone
I'm not familiar with the guy
you mentioned who has spread
that as a rumor.
Frankly I'm very much relieved
that I was wrong.
By the way, a good deal of my
theology comes from Seventh
Day Adventist studies.
Again, I'm very sorry for the
mixup. My fault.
I will read through them over the weekend with great interest (I won't have time this week).
With all due respect to you, I prefer to emphasize the distinction between Protestants and Catholics rather than putting them all under the umbrella "Christian".
Most Protestants that I know would not put themselves in the same group as the Catholics. It sounds nicer to say we are all the same, but the truth is that the differences are great as evidenced on the few discussions on this forum. When I was a Catholic, I did not know Yeshua the way that I know Him now. What I did was bound up in religion...not relationship. It wasn't based only on the Bible, but on extra-biblical traditions which the Church itself teaches are as if not more important than the Bible.
We all believe in Yeshua, yes, but do we all see Him the same way? In that regard, I think the gap is huge. As some of the Evangelical Churches have lost their compass, they are welcoming Catholic practices from the mystics in and doing Labyrinths ( from Chartes Cathedral) using icons, etc, etc. I don't see this a positive move to unity. I see it as part of the effort to bring everyone under Mother Rome.
There were people that were burned on stakes for upholding these beliefs. I don't think we really want to undo the work that the Reformation did.
You are running a forum on the New Age, so you probably don't want to divide people on the forum which I understand, but I think upholding the Bible is key to keeping people from the deception of the New Age movement. One of the first thing Satan attacks when he leads people astray is the Scriptures. Did God really say.....???? There's nothing new under the sun, it's all from the Garden.
Anyway, my orientation is not 100% Protestant either because I'm a Jewish believer, but I won't even go into that now. If you want to know you can go back and read what I said on the other forums.
I really appreciate all the time and effort you have put into exposing the New Age movement..so thank you for that. Not sure I'll be back writing on the forum or not, but I will continue to read your blogs. They are always insightful.
Blessings to you in Yeshua,
As for the differences between people who call themselves Christians, Jesus said you must be born again spiritually, which is a supernatural once in a life time like Pentecost experience.
Satan's favorite place is the church and attacking the saved, as those outside are lost and why bother?
Find a church that teaches directly from the Bible and has an alter call at each service and you've found a rare jewel indeed even in the Bible belt.
Did you notice the new mayor of Rome?
Food shortages are planned just like the rising oil prices.
A garden is in order as well as storing dried food and baking bread. Food shortages are not going to get better nor are prices. Have you hugged a farmer today?
Every gallon of ethanol we save could help save a life!
this is off topic and sorry to bring it up again, but i was wondering if you got my emails concerning the powerpoint-new age lecture you gave a while back that i asked about?
just wondering if you got a chance to send that out yet and also let me know where i can send you a check for the dvd.
kck said; "I am beginning to think Blair is as good a candidate as Solana."
Blair is VERY good at talking the talk and spinning the spin. Watch out for his distraction techniques and try not to look where he is pointing!
A short profile is given here where it appears he hasn't changed much from his school years as his housemaster said, ""He was an expert at testing the rules to the limit ..."
He was not as popular a Prime Minister in the UK as his spin doctors may lead people to believe! The biggest aid to his longevity as PM was that there was not a strong opposition party for people to vote for!
I have this feeling about the relationship of these two Spanish Club of Rome buddies. Talal seems to focus on interfaith most of the time, but their lingo(Solana/Talal) are like peas in a pod.
1. A denial that Jesus Christ is the Christ.
2. A denial that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
Some Catholics meet this test (the now excommunicated Matthew Fox); some Catholics don't.
Some Protestants meet this test -- some don't.
I think I covered this in the first chapter of THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW.
As far as persecutions go, Catholics and Protestants both suffered deep persecutions.
When the war against Christians first broke out in Mexico, they started by banning the Catholics -- too many Protestants stood by -- silently and/or even cheering. Then surprise, surprise, the same measures were levied against them.
Hitler started against the Jews. He clearly made plans to extend it to the Catholics and Protestants -- as far as he was concerned all were "Jewish based religions" worthy of death.
The persecutions of Catholics in England by Protestants were equally horrific to those of "Bloody Mary" against Protestants. Some were even worse.
Catholics experienced bloody persecutions in Geneva at the hands of Calvinists.
Thou shalt not kill is a biblical maxim extending to all -- I'm afraid there is plenty of dirty laundry to go around on this one.
And, by the way, Javier Solana launched the Barcelona Process on November 27th, 2008 by an attack on Catholics. He said it was auspicious that it had begun on the 900th anniversary of the first Crusade called by Pope Urban II.
Solana does not come from the lineage of "devout Catholics" as Ian Paisley erroneously claimed. He comes from those who loved to lock the clericals in churches and monasteries and then burn them! That was what Franco disturbed.
Just a few thoughts . . .
1. A vile person shall arise
2. To WHOM THEY SHALL NOT GIVE THE HONOR OF THE KINGDOM
3. He shall come in PEACEABLY
4. With the AID OF A FEW
5. And obtain the kingdom BY FLATTERIES
6. And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown before him
The plain prophecies of Daniel and Revelation also state that he will make war on God's peoples and prevail against them for a time and times and half a times (1240 days -- 3 1/2 years).
He would regard no god whatsoever (an Atheist) but in his estate would he honor the god of Forces, a god whom his fathers knew not."
As for the dirty laundry on both sides, not all who say they are "Christian" behave as Yeshua did, no doubt we can't single out Catholics on that one.
With regards to the Jews and Protestants, the Catholic Church has done quite a bit of damage. There are humans in the Catholic Church and they sin like everywhere else. Hiding under the guise of Papel infallibility is wrong and not Biblical, calling a Pope father is wrong and contrary to Scripture, so for all the reasons above it would be impossible for me to worship in Catholic Church at any time under any conditions. I would feel as though I had violated God's commands, including the ones about graven images. There are others who write here who would hold the same view if they are honest.
Protecting those priests who molested children by shipping them to other parishes is beyond wrong. They should face the same things that any other person committing that crime would face. It's nice that the Pope talked to victims, but it seems that not too many culprits have been dealt with in the justice system because the Church protected them and underlying issue of celibacy has not been addressed, which is not Biblical.
As for the Biblical test..I would add that in the book of Revelations the last sentence is:
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. Rev 22:18-19
These are a couple examples from the Vatican's website of many teachings of the RRC that would constitute adding to the Scriptures and not only adding, but being inconsistent with the Scriptures.
Where does the Bible say that Mary was "free from sin" and ascended into heaven. The only ones who were "taken" were Enoch and Elijah. No one except Yeshua was free from sin, including Mary.
Again, I will repeat, I am not against Catholic individuals and I do believe there are those who truly love Yeshua who grew up in the Catholic Church and have not yet had the ability to see because the church doesn't believe people can read their own Bibles. In recent years some Catholics are reading, but that is only a recent event and the numbers are relatively small.
I deal with many born again believers and many of them who have previously worshipped in a Catholic Church renounce the experience. I just want to reiterate that my problem is not with individual Catholics, but with the doctrines of the Church which do not line up with Scripture and have added to what God said not to add to.
There may be a remnant within the Catholic Church that God will bring out, but I don't believe the institution of the Church has upheld Scripture, and I know more stories of some of the damage they've done in Muslim countries and in Europe. We have heard the Catholic Church say that Muslims are all on the same path, just parallel, going to "heaven". That is heresy. Churches have been converted or loaned out to mosques, in Europe and I'm not talking about during the Crusades. I'm talking 20 and 21st century.
This whole trend of "dialogue" with Muslims is designed to bring ecumenic unity. People have lost the notion that there is absolute truth in Bible, and are even being encouraged to go to mosques. We know that this kind of dialogue is deceptive. AoC is promoting this through Abraham's Path a Harvard Initiative.
Short of offering Muslims, Yeshua as the only door to salvation, they will perish and go to a godless eternity. We are dealing with some of these issues in our day to day lives where I work, so I can tell you from my perspective that the Catholic Church has done an enormous amount of damage and created confusion.
This is the Vatican writing about the Ecumenic Prayer at Assisi with Buddhist, Hindus, etc. It is strangely similar to that of the Emergent leaders who are pulling "truths" from the various pagan traditions:
The document says some things that are true, which is always the problem with Catholicism, but then it talks about a spirit of "union". On that occasion all the religions did pray together, including the animists from Africa, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc, etc. Loving people is one thing, praying with pagan religions is entirely another. These religions don't pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They were praying to other gods who were no gods at all. When I saw this with my own eyes, I was shocked. This among other things is why I believe the Catholic Church is quite capable of helping to usher in a false prophet, or the New Age messiah.
The last and final point is the Pope's approval of the UN. You and I both know that the UN will help usher in the Maitreya, the Christ, the Messiah, whatever he will be called. In giving approval to the UN, the pope is telling hundreds of millions of followers that he approves. He has a lot of influence. I pasted the document on an earlier post if you are interested in reading the transcript of his speech in NY. Even Bush bowed down to him, which he doesn't do with other political leaders.
God says that He will judge the shepherds, so that is in His hands, but I just get angry about how many are kept from the truth about salvation in Yeshua ALONE. It's not Yeshua+something. It's Yehusa's finished work at the cross. Like the Galatians, if we try to DO SOMETHING to earn our salvation than Yeshua's death is in vain. When we know Yeshua, do we obey God's commandments? Absolutely! These are not a means of salvation, but sanctification..We don't obey vain human traditions.
That's why I would say to Constance, yes Catholics believe in Jesus, but it's Jesus+the sacraments+Mary+++ They need to be pointed to the Scriptures and many would probably realize where they've been misled by their Church.
The point is this is not personal against Catholics. I've criticized Protestants, Messianics, etc. if they are not aligning with Scripture. The ecumenic movement will facilitate the New Age takeover, because with the buzzword "tolerance" we've left Biblical truth behind. Our allegiance should be to the Scriptures and to Yeshua, which are not in contradiction with one another. When we start with the Scriptures, we can have the unity, true unity not the counterfeit.
This is not meant to be a debate, but something I've reflected on for a long time, probably as long as you've been studying the New Age Movement, so as you have strong feelings about that, and rightly so, so do I about the areas where the Catholic Church has led their sheep astray.
As we are "blowing the shofar" about the New Age Movement, it is appropriate to call attention to some of the things the RCC has done throughout history and continues to do, that only add to the confusion. Are some Protestant Churches confused too? Absolutely. My contention is that the Reformation was a great step, but never went all the way in cutting ties to Catholic tradition. Some of these connections are being brought back today with the Emerging Church movement that has undermined the Scriptures and cast doubt on their authenticity....similar to what Karen Armstrong has done. They are also following in the traditions of people like Augustine, who had no problem mixing Greek philosophy with Biblical faith. I have a big problem with that. We need to keep Plato and Jaques Derrida out of our Bible studies.
I'll leave the conversation here and say, yes we can believe in Yeshua but put a "mask" on HIm. The children of Israel worshipped the golden calf and called it "YHVH". Clearly they were wrong, but their intentions were good. We are told to not make a "false image" of God, meaning to put a mask on Him or change His identity, because in doing so we might end up worshipping a golden calf.
Time will tell whether or not those of us who have given warnings about the Catholic Church are right or not, but I hope some more Catholics would open their Bibles and read for themselves and decide whether or not the Church really represents who Yeshua is and what the Bible teaches about Him.
That's my greatest prayer for Catholics...
Blessings to you in Yeshua,
Earlier on this thread in response to a query from you about the scope of the EU's power and influence, Dorothy provided a link to an outstanding blog.
The front page of today's Irish Times carries a story the first sentence reads,
EUROPE'S TOP human rights watchdog has criticised the Government for failing to adequately protect children under State care and refusing to legislate on abortion
(Because I am not an IT subscriber, I cannot access the rest of the story).
It appears however that the EU is trying to force Ireland to legalize abortion as a "human rights issue."
Here in Europe we are living in increasingly Orwellian times.
Please see this recent (17 April) article from the Irish Independent
Note to Constance: My sincere gratitude for taking the time to compose the above posts and for the hope and pride that they inspire.
One more heads up about a recent Catholic affiliation. Tony Blair, who as you well know is the representative for the "Quartet" in the Mideast Peace process, suddenly and abruptly converted to Catholicism after he stepped down in his role of Prime Minister of UK.
Strangely enough he has started a new 'Interfaith" initiative besides hosting an interfaith dialogue at the Davos World Economic Forum 2008 right on the heals of the Madrid AoC conference...coincidence? I don't think so.
There are two sides of this coin of NWO/NWR. The side like Solana who are just anti-God period, the Freemasons, etc. The other side of the coin are those trying to merge the religions and say we are all the same. Unity runs gamut from those who just want to see "Christians" get along regardless of their convictions, to those like Tony Blair who are trying to bridge the divide with Muslims too, to the most extreme like the UN that has various initiatives like the United Religions Initiative, which treats even Wicca like a legitimate religion.
I see the agenda behind the Tony Blair move. He introduced his talk at Davos World Economic Forum with a film of Karen Armstrong, who as most of us would agree is a total heretic, so what do we make of this. If Tony is supporting the AoC agenda and joining the Catholic church and try to help with the MidEast process does he represent his agenda or someone else's? Haven't heard Benedict complain, in fact he's on the same track. In case you haven't seen the film of Davos I'll attach it for all to see....very revealing indeed, but you have to watch all 70 minutes to really appreciate it.
I would appreciate your comments on how you read all of this "interfaith" stuff when it comes to the New Age Movement. We can see that the merging is coming from the top. It has gotten so bad that people don't even understand that the Muslim's Allah is not the YHVH of the Bible...I won't get into the preIslamic meaning of Allah and the 360 pagan dieties at the kabbah in Saudi Arabia, but the churches are very confused about this issue and are confusing others.
I do see the Catholic Church leading this "crusade" excuse the pun. The Pope has called to meet the Muslim leaders in Rome...Again all things leading back to Rome?
All that to say, unity is good when it comes from the inside out i.e. from the Bible and Yeshua. The unity that is imposed from the exterior is artificial and will not hold in the end. Yeshua's sheep will hear His voice...and we hear His voice through the Scriptures. That is His chosen vehicle to reveal Himself to us.
It would be good for you as the leader of this forum to give a plug for the Scriptures, so some of the Catholic readers would know unequivocally that that's what you stand for. It might have a positive influence on others.
Blessings in Yeshua,
I support Joyce in her statements being 'honest' and there are only two kinds of people in the world.
The born again people have gotten a bad rap, but it's to be expected as Jesus said the world hated Him and it would hate His own, so be it.
Blair is also a flaming New Ager as he rolls on the floor naked screaming and channeling, a really weird exercise in spiritualism. He converted to please his Catholic wife, but I suspect kissing up to the EU Presidency was the biggest motivating factor.
The new Major of Rome is of interest as he is forceful and apparently can change his image as quickly as Clinton. What I read about him makes him sound like Obama very astute not necessarily a good thing. Clinton isn't looking that bad based on our choices! Who would have thought?
A more correct translation to the verse a "great falling away" actually is a great leaving or departing meaning the rapture, if that's true then the one world church is no biggie as it is expected and forming for the false prophet. Grant Jeffery said the earlier translations prior KJV were the later version, Wednesday night, I think TBN. I thought it made more sense based on current events.
Adieu (Old French: I commend you to God.)
I checked the word for falling away, in the New American Standard it is translated "apostasy"
the word is strongs number 646:
means: a falling away, defection, apostasy
I don't think in this context it can mean the rapture, even though I wish it could.
Lately this forum has morphed into a platform for Catholic-baiting and Jew-baiting while numerous self-professed "Bible believing" Christians here either pretend it isn't happening (thereby implying consent -- qui tacet consentire videtur, or coyly, and sometimes aggressively, encourage it.
I'm very sorry to see more of the same coming from you. May I suggest that maybe it's time to start looking inside your own heart instead of speculating about the contents of Tony Blair's.
The one who's input I sincerely crave right now on this is Lee Penn who wrote False Dawn. He first alerted me to the Pope Benedict XVI - Bishop Levada (now Cardinal Levada) connection. As head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Ratzinger (now Benedict XVI) fought the New Age Movement and did so effectiely. However, he appointed the decidedly more syncretistic Bishop Levada to his decidedely pivotal Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith job.
Lee Penn has thoughts on this and so do I - VERY DISTURBING!
Many Catholics (myself included) are disturbed and confused about the appointment of Levada (as one Catholic trad quipped after the appointment was announced: "Could the seat now be vacant?")
I haven't been following the discussions within the Catholic community about Levada, but I will research and get back to you at some point. Like his predecessor, Benedict XVI is reviled by both left and right within his own church, and misunderstood by many--speculation about his motives in this particular instance requires careful research and analysis.
Lee Penn's take on this situation would be very interesting--would it be possible to get him on the show as a guest to discuss this (and other matters)?
A byproduct of the dialogue has produced as much emoting as passion, a most damaging hindrance to us considering the importance of our associations here and the necessity that the spiritual darkness of the New Age agenda be documented and exposed.
In an attempt to provide some clarity of perspective from the sola scriptura, sola fide spectrum I'm posting this quote which is circa the 1930's:
"Men tell us that our preaching should be positive and not negative,
that we can preach the truth without attacking error.
But if we follow that advice we shall have to close our Bible and
desert its teachings. The New Testament is a polemic book
almost from beginning to end.
Some years ago I was in a company of teachers of the Bible in the
colleges and other educational institutions of America. One of the
most eminent theological professors in the country made an
address. In it he admitted that there are unfortunate controversies
about doctrine in the Epistles of Paul; but, said he in effect,
the real essence of Paul’s teaching is found in the hymn to
Christian love in the thirteenth chapter of I Corinthians;
and we can avoid controversy today, if we will only devote
the chief attention to that inspiring hymn.
In reply, I am bound to say that the example was singularly
ill-chosen. That hymn to Christian love is in the midst of a great
polemic passage; it would never have been written if Paul had
been opposed to controversy with error in the Church. It was
because his soul was stirred within him by a wrong use of the
spiritual gifts that he was able to write that glorious hymn. So it is
always in the Church. Every really great Christian utterance, it
may almost be said, is born in controversy. It is when men have
felt compelled to take a stand against error that they have risen to
the really great heights in the celebration of truth."
(J . GRESHAM MACHEN, “ Christian Scholarship and the Defense of the Faith , ” in J . GRESHAM MACHEN:
Selected Shorter Writings,
( Phillipsburg, N J : P & R , 2004 ) , PP.148 - 149)
If we did not take the eternal destiny of souls seriously, and have an absolute certainty that the New Age poses the most eternal danger to the souls of all men, we would not be as passionate and persistent in our high regard, for all of you and our commitment to the importance of the Scriptures in evaluating the dangers of the New Age and what it teaches. If we speak the truth, we do so knowing full well we might be misunderstood, even opposed. What matters most to us is that we speak it faithfully, and as best we understand it with integrity. We do so in love , though it may not seem so at times. All we can hope for is an intellectually honest, sober minded hearing of what we say.
If Lucifer is the energizer of the NAM, and I think that is well documented, and if his plan is being implemented by deluded people, documented as well, the agenda is a spiritual agenda which must needs be exposed, and combated from a spiritual perspective. There are only two "spiritual stores" in town, Lucifer's and Jesus Christ's.
If I am incorrect on that, prove me wrong with facts please, True facts. If I am correct the consequences are eternal, the choice is yours, please choose wisely, ... please...
We are not motivated by fear. It seems that this sight is a good mission field.
Joyce, have you ever researched what the ten names listed in Genesis 5 mean? Tie their names together and you will find a GREAT prophecy of Jesus.
Mahalaleel: “praise of God”
Methuselah: “man of the dart”
Now I see who Levada is. There seem to be a lot of unanswered questions on his handling of all the sexual abuse scandals on the West Coast, and interestingly enough, this tie to the UN's United Religion Iniative:
URI is very interesting. They have come up with a kid's URI which has an agenda to teach kids about all the worlds religions. The level of indoctrination going on among young people on every level of society is deeply disturbing, including AoC's media projects and desire to touch youth through education:
My other thoughts about Pope Benedict is when he made the controversial remarks in German about Islam, that it was done to provoke the very dialogue he is now engaging in. He's not a stupid man, and based on the cartoon scandals he knew the comments would provoke a reaction. These were not only my thoughts, but I heard EU leaders say this too.
As you probably know, I think Bjorn has mentioned this, it's the year of Intercultural Dialogue ( which you might as well translate interreligious because that's what they want to dialogue about) in Europe.
The the Muslims came out with "a Common Word" which has a nice sound to it, but unsuspecting Christians and Jews end up signing a website where later on the Muslims say that "Allah is the god and Mohamed and Jesus are his servants.."
I wonder about some of these things that look random, but end up provoking these interreligious dialogues i.e. reintroducing the cartoon scandal and the film by the Dutch politician who formed the anti-Islam part. The film is called Fitna and portrays the violent, jihadist side of Islam.
I don't have any proof of this, but the whole religion question is much more important one in Europe than it is in US. As EU merges, it is becoming sort of the model of what to do about these differences with the diverse populations in all the different countries.
Just some thoughts about how the dialectical struggle might ultimately lead to synthesis.
This weeks Torah portion, which Jews all over the world read in synagogues this week is about being "set apart" and not mixing things. God gave these very important principals in Torah for a reason...that we would not do what was don't a Babel. Babel being "confusion".
Today, these principals of being "set apart" or "holy" are being violated in more ways than one can imagine. This is how we arrive at "Mystery Babylon". All of the principals to protect us are there in God's loving instructions..If we would only listen and obey. Someone pointed out recently that the tree in the Garden was "mixed fruit". There was the knowledge of good and evil...We should not partake of this tree..
Shabbat shalom to all of you,
Check Human Events or Drudge I think.
If Muslims increase the way he is projecting and the shift that is happening now in countries the new age may not matter much.
P.S. About Blair's heart, explaining his actions is just that.
Do you see the Mason's as being NA? Or other groups?
Where is the line?
NA to me is a recent manifestation of spiritualism based on old occult practices. TM, Yoga, meditations all have connections and can be a part of the NA.
Tell me where I'm wrong.
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
To deny or say your not is to deny God making you unsaved.
"Let me be completely honest as I'm sure you'd want me to be. The stuff you've presented isn't really anything new or that I haven't seen in one form or another. And all of it holds little to no interest to me. I'm just flat out not interested. And I don't think it's because I'm asleep either. Let's just say for argument's sake that it is all true. How does that change anything about my life or ministry in this world? What possible impact should it have on me. I'm still going to get up this Sunday and open the Bible to lead Christians back to Jesus and introduce unbelievers to him. The world council of churches will do their thing, the emergent church will come and go, and my knowledge of or preoccupation with all of that changes nothing of the fact that the world needs Jesus and God has given us a Bible to take the world on with and His Holy Spirit to empower us to do it.
I think you're probably just spending too much time in front of a computer and an internet that is swarming with all of this stuff. You can find anything on there and hordes of people enamored with it. I'm just not one of those people.
Jesus said, "I will build My Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". It is that Jesus and that church that I love serving and the promise is that nothing will prevail against His Sovereign plan and beautiful bride.
There's my two bits. Now I'm going to get back to my Bible because 'Sunday's a coming'!"
Why doesn't anybody care or seeit?
New Age stuff also.
They Live, new movie not for kids, twilight language, implants in people key words. ? That's all I know, sounds NA or dark to me.
"But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand."
Michael A. Hoffman? The Jew Haters are really active in the comments again.
Thanks for the info and directing us back to the URI site. Through it I found information I had not seen before. One area was that of "Forum 2000 Conferences/Shared Concern Initiative". "Shared Concern Initiative" membership includes among others:
HRH El Hassan bin Talal
Their 12th Forum 2000 Conference is Oct. 12-14 2008 in Prague Crossroads, titled, “Between Openness and Fundamentalism in the 21st Century: Tradition and Modernity at Issue”.
URI works closely and collaborates with other local and international interfaith organizations, such as the "Council for a Parliament of the Worlds Religions" This organization is concidered the 'mama' of all resulting formal interregious dialogue we now see today. They got their start in 1893, and since 1988 have held a conference every five years, the next to be held in Melbourne, Australia in Dec. 2009. Their home page below has an interactive page under the heading "explore". Each section opens to archives of detailed information including bios of past
speakers and full transcripts of their speeches from 1893, plus Declarations and reports of each consecutive Parliament. Many very well known personalities are tied to this organization. It is a major player in UN interfaith initiatives -Rudi
Thank you for that verse in Ezekiel, I will share it with my friend. You did put verse 36 when I think you meant verse 6.
Thank you for obeying that verse.
The spring 2008 URI newsletter was
Also while viewing the Forum 2000 information, I read an interesting phrase. "FORUM 2000 CONFERENCE WILL END WITH A UNIQUE MULTI-FAITH MEDITATION" A google search turned up an on-line issue of the
Southeast Asia-Pacific branch of URI. "MEDITATION: InterSPECT" (Interfaith Perspectives). You can read about "prayer" interfaith style. -Rudi
Thanks for sharing those links. The Parliment of World Religions, I had seen, but not the Forum 2000. What was very interesting on that site was the logo for Shared Concerns initiative is very, very similar to AoC's logo, kind of an "all seeing eye" but could also be interpreted as "having the whole world in their hands". Take a look at the two.
The other thing about all this organizations is their concerns always overlap, global hunger, AIDs, sustainable development, the environment, intercultural dialogue for better understanding and i.e. the UN Millennium Development Goals. This agenda has come into churches too. The problem it has a "nice sound" to it" but is leading people astray.
The last point about group meditation is the most revealing because that would fit perfectly with Alice Bailey's plan to "initiate people" which I think answers the question about why we need to warn people. AB didn't care if people understood what they were doing or not. They just had to DO it. She knew as soon as they did, the spiritual doors would be open and they would be hooked.
I am seeing all kinds of reports about Protestants and others doing different kinds of group meditation, comtemplative prayer, etc. All of these things are open doors to spiritual deception and to spirits. These points are not contradicting from the Bible. The Bible has a lot to say about them.
Part of today's Torah portion reads:
‘As for the person who turns to mediums and to spiritists, to play the harlot after them, I will also set My face against that person and will cut him off from among his people. ‘You shall consecrate yourselves therefore and be holy, for I am the LORD your God. ‘You shall keep My statutes and practice them; I am the LORD who sanctifies you. Lev 20:6-8.
The point is that as people try to find this "unity" and pray or meditate together, they have opened a demonic door. The word in the Hebrew for the passage in Leviticus for "spiritists" is "yiddeoni" or familiar spirits. The primary root of the word is "yada" which speaks of knowing. People are seeking this special "knowledge" by meditating and it is not knowledge at all. It's deception. Like the tree in the Garden. We are called to meditate on God's Word, period!
I agree with the pastor about knowing the Bible, but fully disagree with him that we don't need to warn people. So many are going astray today and it's because they haven't been warned.
We can see from Ancient Israel's history how many times they lost their way by imitating the nations. We are saved by the blood of Yeshua, but He calls us to be "holy and set" a part people...and not to go the way of the nations. It's a message that desperately needs to be preached today, so people aren't deceived by the likes of the Brian McLarens of the world and others who are trying to seduce believers into aligning themselves with the UN Millennum Development Goals.
People are being "guilted" into accepting everyone under this umbrella of tolerance, which is the greatest deception. We can love people pray FOR them, but not WITH them. We cannot join ourselves to deceiving spirits. We will open doors to the enemy. The spiritual realm is very real, and so we are warned in the Bible how to "keep our armor on".
Ephesians 6. God doesn't want us to be ignorant of the devils schemes. He is holy and we should be holy. I think that's the point of understanding and warning people.
Blessings in Yeshua,
That is very interesting. There is a also a very interesting study on the names of the Son's of Jacob/Israel that is a prophecy about Yeshua. I'm on my way out the door, so I'll try to do it later and send it, haven't memorized it.
As for the sacrifice of the lamb, I'm not an expert on korban, but it seems according to the regulations that would have to be done on an altar at the very least. Normally it should be done at the Temple. There is no temple for now, but the fact that they are doing it seems to me to be a beginning of fulfillment of prophecy. The Temple Institute is very eager to restore the Temple at Jerusalem and are all ready to go. The only problem is the mosque that stands on or near the holy of holies.
It also makes us realize how Ancient Israel really did understand the price of their sin..very graphic.
May the Lamb who was slain, come quickly and in our day,
I appreciate your thoughtful and obviously well thought out posts, but I stand on the following which I have often said before and now repeat:
The Gospel is NOT
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be a member of the ABC Church and thou shalt be saved
NOR is it
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be a member of the NBC Church and thou shalt be saved.
The Gospel clearly IS
BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED.
I commend to all doing the Catholic-Protestant bickering (my Godly grandmother who was a 50 year Church of the Nazarene Sunday School teacher told me in the last alert years of her life (she lived to be nearly 100 -- died just short of that birthday) that God had shown her very clearly that she was to repent of her bigotry towards Catholics.
She pointed out this scripture to me which I commend to you:
Romans Chapter 14: "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not hte day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not , to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself and no man dieth to himself. For whether we lvie, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord; whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's . . .
And for the record:
ABC=Anything but Catholic
NBC-Nothing but Catholic
The Internation Cooperation Circle link was really something -- New World Religion material ALL THE WAY!
Is this the hour of temptation about to come upon all the earth?
Let us all take a moment to look up from our own research for a moment, and squarely at who Hoffman is, and explicitly repudiate the kind of heniousness depravity embodied in his work.
I look forward to seeing other Christian brothers and sisters here join in with me.
Does this mean they found the red heffer?
I will check out Jerusalem post and see what I can find.
Western Europe and North America
OSCE activities in Western Europe and North America include preventative diplomacy, partnering with organizations, institutions and NGOs for security and co-operation, election monitoring, media affairs and gender issues.
Do we have an alliance?
I couldn't agree with you more about what the Gospel is, "Believe on Yeshua the Messiah and your sins will be forgiven and you will be saved' but we must not take that Scripture and say that nothing else matters. We have to be sure we are talking about the same Yeshua, not the golden calf. Who is saved is not my business though. That's completely God's business, since He is the ONLY one who can read the heart. I think that's why it says, "confess with your lips and believe in your heart". We can confess with our lips, but our heart is far from Him..the heart in Hebrew "lev" is much more than just an emotional feeling, it is someone's mind, their whole inner being etc. I know that you might say that was written in Greek, but it was written with the Hebrew mind set.
I do believe that people can be saved out of any background, the New Age Movement, the Catholic Church, the Jehovah Witnesses, etc. No problem here. We agree that salvation is not a question of church affiliation. There are probably saved and unsaved people in any congregation..I'm guessing.
That is not what I have been talking about. I am saying that the DOCTRINES of the Catholic Church don't not align with the Bible. Do you believe that the doctrines of the Catholic Church are 100% in agreement with the Bible?
That's is my issue with the Catholic Church, but not Catholic people. I do not have a thing against Catholics and as such have nothing to repent of. I can't speak for your Grandmother because perhaps she had animosity towards Catholics. I'm not saying she did, but I honestly don't dislike people because they are Catholic.
My problem is strictly one of doctrine. I don't believe there is one correct perfect denomination or church but I believe the Catholic Church actually deviates from the Scriptures on some major points. I know lots of Muslims that I like too, but I don't agree with the Quran. We should not mix" liking "people with beliefs. If we do, we will fall into the trap of the AoC. They are confusing this issue terribly.
I can actually seperate doctrine or belief system from the people who participate in it. I don't only like Bible believing Messianics.. and visa versa. There are people I could never fellowship with in the context of a worship service because our beliefs are just too, too far apart, but I'm sure that's true of most of us on this forum. I could probably open the Bible with them and talk to them though. there's a difference between discussing and worship and praying together.
Jehovah Witness who will acknowledge "Jesus is Savior" but I promise you they don't believe in the Yeshua that I believe in and their Jehovah is not my YHVH.
When it comes to faith, there are areas that we can be flexible with others about and areas which are not negotiable. I actually believe that the Catholic Church has misrepresented who Yeshua is for centuries and as such I stand firmly against the institution and its doctrines, but I know some really nice people in it.
Yes, they say He was crucified, yes he was born of a virgin, but there is not certainty that our faith in His FINISHED ( and I do emphasize finished ) work will assure us of our presence with HIm for all of eternity. I'm not going to go into all my differences again, because I have articulated them in previous posts.
As a Catholic, I never new what would happen to me when I died. I never felt like I had to listen to God, just the priests. I didn't really know I could ask forgiveness for my sins directly without going through an intermediary. I DIDN"T really know who Yeshua was at all. I was worshipping a false image(if you could even call what I did worship.). I was not born again.
When I did accept Yeshua and was born again I tried to go back to the RCC at one point because I honestly didn't know where to go. I could not stay. I knew the second I walked in why I left in the first place. I started to know Him by reading what He says about Himself, His Word...When I read the Bible, I saw many, many contradictions between what the Bible says and what I heard in many years of Catholic schools and Catholic church. Someone who is still in that system will never understand what I'm talking about, but I pray one day Abba will open their eyes, so they can have a revelation of Him as He describes Himself, not as the Catholic Church has described Him. They've put a mask on the God of Abraham, Isaac and Yacov, and He is no longer recognizable to His own people, the physical descendants of Yacov. I know many who are believers in Yeshua, but they come to Him from a completely different direction. They see Him as the Torah who became flesh. They don't see Him as having abolished Shabbat, Pessah, HagMatzah, Hag Bikkurim ,Shavuot, Yom T'ruah, Yom Kippur, Soucat. They see Him in all His fullness in these feasts.
When we read the account of Yeshua when He met the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, it says, "Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures" Luke 24:27. A few verses later it says: " Then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from their sight. " Luke 24:31
Yeshua revealed Himself through Moses and the Prophets. This is how we know Him. Any other Yeshua that doesn't correspond to all that is written about Him in Tanach is another "Jesus".
We need to point people to the Yeshua of the Bible and not another, or we may not know the difference between the real Yeshua and the Cosmic Christ..How will we hear His voice, if we don't know His Word. This is just so basic, I can't believe that anyone would have an argument with that.
I'm sure Rose and RL for example are really nice people. I don't really know them and I don't have anything against them...I apologize if my comments about the RCC were in any way shape or form interpreted personally by them or hurt them. That was not my intention. I probably never should have started the conversation here. It's always delicate when we talk about an institution that people belong to and I could have been more tactful and sometimes I actually am...believe it or not. I'm not in the habit of deliberately trying to hurt anyone..
My first allegiance is to Yeshua and His Word, and for that I offer no apologies. I don't believe God will condemn me for wanting people to know the truth about what His Word says, and not men or an institution, so I am very comfortable about my position on the Catholic Church. I do hope that some who might read my testimony and know that I am speaking directly from heart, from my experience and also from the Word of God that is not at all ambiguous, but with no with any malice whatsoever. If you read some of the Words of the Apostles in the Book of Acts or elsewhere in the Epistles, they don't mince their Words and they never apologize for correcting the people. Now I'm not comparing myself with them, but there is Biblical precedence for being direct.
Constance I know that you believe in the Bible because you quote it all the time, but you and I both know the only way we can recognize the false messiah and distinguish him from Yeshua is because of the Scriptures. If that is true, what can we say about the RCC? Do they stand exclusively for the Scriptures, or do they elevate their doctrines above those of the Bible?
If they do the later, then we have to label them as errant. Being a little bit off, when we are talking about hitting the mark, is off. Definition of sin is "missing the mark". I don't think this is a grey area. It's black and white. Yeshua said this whole world would pass away, but not one "jot or tittle" ( the smallest mark in the alphabet) would pass away. If it is that important to God, should it not be to us?
I don't think anything I will say will have much influence on the Catholics on this forum, but if you as the leader of this forum take a strong stand for the Scriptures, maybe they'll begin to open their Bibles...
I could probably condense this into a shorter comment, but it would take a lot of time, so pardon the length, but I think the contents accurately express my thoughts and feelings about the Scriptures and the Catholic Church.
Blessings in Yeshua,
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