Tuesday, March 11, 2008

Javier Solana's New International Order for his New Age

"A key task for Europe for the next 50 years is therefore to protect and develop a system of strong institutions able to tackle the problems of a new age and to progressively build a rules-based international order. We will have to do so at a time when the world is moving to a system of continents. Hence, Europeans will only be able to project and protect their interests if they are united." Javier Solana
Dorothy Margraf will be able handling my program this afternoon, March 11, 2008. She is extremely well versed on the issues and I hope you will join us then at http://www.themicroeffect.com/ at 2 p.m. Pacific time, 5 p.m. Eastern USA time.
Stay tuned!

Thanks Constance - me happy you posted it too!!! Björn
Today I'm hosting the show for Constance at her request. As all of you know, the New Age movement has many branches, and the abortion/euthansia branch is one of them. I've asked Joe Sheidler of the Pro-Life Action League to be the guest. Joe and I became friends back in 1980, and I've admired his activism over all of these years. His battles have been long and hard, particularly the one that ended up in the Supreme Court when he fought the pro-abortion feminist movement and won. We'll be talking about pro-life successes and the euthanasia movement in this country.
Here's some information on Joe.

If we have time left, I've gathered some information from another friend who was an activist at the beginning of the Conservative movement, exposing Communist front activity. I'll talk about what she and her husband did over the years to help the movement grow.

I know you will find the show interesting because you will be getting unfiltered by the media pro-life information.

Sorry, here's the link to information about Joe.

Call in with your questions please.

Sounds like you've lined up a great guest and program Dorothy. Looking forward to it. -Rudi
It is interesting to compare the Europe's World "Countering globalisation’s dark side" article by Javier Solana, to this Cyril Foster Lecture, Oxford address - given by Javier, February 28,2008. Solana seems to be "staying the course" of his vision for the EU and the role it, and he, will play
in the world. As you read this recent address by Javier Solana
titled, " “Europe in the World: The Next Steps” take note of how the successfulness of his "global governance" vision is
based on having a system with an enforcible set of rules and the "conceptually sophisticated"
"mixing military with civilian instruments, in support of political strategy.”
I know in order to maintain a "civil" society, rules are necessary and must be enforced. The system of the future government which will determine those rules, has yet to be "officially" recognized and given a name. For now, we still live in a country where the "rule of law", is based on the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. The future? We shall see. -Rudi


Did anyone else catch the series on the history channel "Children of Abraham?" I don't know if it is a repeat or new, but it surely seemed like it has "dialog among cultures" agenda.

This link is from Denise Townley over on FP:
"Javier Solana: no peace in the Middle East with settlement construction"


Another link from last week:
From the Palestine Media Center:
(PLO)- No surprise at this indignant report.
"UN, EU, US, France and Germany Deplore Israeli Settlement Expansion
Palestinian PM: Israel Violates Its Pledges at Annapolis Conference"

"Palestinian Prime Minister, Salaam Fayyad, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, EU's foreign policy chief, Javier Solana, French President Nikola Sarkozy, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Germany on Monday called on Israel to oblige to its road map commitments and halt settlement expansion in the occupied Palestinian territories."


And one more:
"UN's Ban Calls on Israel to Halt West Bank Settlement Expansion"

Congratulations, Dorothy, for lining up old friend Joe Scheidler. I can't wait to download and listen to the archives!

Cheney is going to or is in the Middle East for Peace talks.

This is a wonderful read.


or Google:

American in Crisis: the triumph of political correctness

PC destroys and breaks down countries.

It was so well written and insightful that I commend it to you heartly.

Indigo Child a.k.a. New Age



thanks to person who posted about blue color.

Those who understand the scope of the New Age movement know there are many branches where there is action, here in the US and internationally.

Today we had a very informative show as the guest was Joe Scheidler of the Pro-Life Action League. He gave current information on the fights against abortion and euthanasia.

It probably sounds cynical, but pro-life groups are the only conservative groups I trust these days. Pro-life volunteers give of their time and money not to get something for themselves, but to protect the lives of others.

Pro-Life Action League
6160 N. Cicero Ave. Ste. 600
Chicago, IL 60646
Tel: 773-777-2900
Fax: 773-777-3061
E-mail: info@prolifeaction.org

Hotline by Phone 773-777-2525

Abortion links to population control, eugenics, sterilization and other such methods of controlling the lives of people. The abortion movement started almost a hundred years ago. Organized opposition began in the 1960s. "... the National Right to Life Committee has grown to represent over 3000 chapters in all 50 states and the District of Columbia." And that organization is only one of many right to life groups.

Pro-life is a huge movement that receives almost no publicity on a national scale, and yet its people work continuously to fight the disgustingly evil, manipulative pro-abortion organizations.

I hope you will take time to learn more about what activities people are doing to save lives.

I didn't have time to talk about how my friend and her husband developed activism techniques to spread their conservative message, but perhaps I can do that another time.

Euthanasia is another area where people know very little about what is occurring. The disabled are particularly concerned. Until I started exploring the academic field of bioethics where all of this is discussed, I had no idea how large a field it was, how many publications, books, conferences, chairs etc. are involved. Bioethics discussion determines what is acceptable to the professionals involved in care for human life.

http://thegimpparade.blogspot.com/2007/03/euthanasia-in-oregon.html#links or

is the story of what one disabled individual and her caretaker faced when trying to get help for her. It's not a unique story and readers can learn what they may face as they try to save a family member from the medical profession's determination to end a life.

Thank you for having Joe Scheidler
on the program today. The program, plus your comments here, and the story about Tracy and her friend David at the link you provided have shaken me out of a position of neglect. In years past I was very active in Pro-Life activities but admittedly, more recently, I have not done what I should. I'm going to become better informed about the euthanasia aspect of the Pro-Life movement and see where I can become involved. Thanks for the wake-up call. -Rudi
Another sign of the times...

Each year the "Right to Life Sunday" prayer vigil crowd that gathers in front of the local PP clinic is smaller than the year before. Where is everybody? Too busy playing with toys, or just sitting at home waiting for the rapture?
Isn't THIS interesting???





I won't copy from his report. You should go read it in it's entirety.
Comments following are also interesting.

He will be presenting his assessment tomorrow and Friday during the 13-14 March Spring European Council meeting. (This link from Bethemoon on FP board)

"Solana to sound alarm over coming climate conflicts"


Full pdf paper from the the Commission and the Secretary-General/High Representative to the European Council



Also: "Climate change may spark conflict with Russia, EU told"

"European governments have been told to plan for an era of conflict over energy resources, with global warming likely to trigger a dangerous contest between Russia and the west for the vast mineral riches of the Arctic"

Rudi, I'm glad you found the information informative. I know any help you can give will be appreciated.

A lot of people say "I wouldn't have an abortion, but I won't stop others from having one." It is like saying "I won't steal but I won't stop anyone else from stealing." These are the "all morality is relative" people In their world nothing is right or wrong unless it impinges on their world.

These folks are in for a shock in the future. They are going to be facing doctors who say, "I won't take your life, but I won't stop anyone from taking it either." They won't have a say in the matter any more than that baby in the womb has a say when someone wants to end that life.

Please, please please people..learn what is going on just on the chance that you will have to intervene to save the life of someone you care about. Don't just trust. Start by telling the hospital staff, the nursing home staff and doctors involved that you are keeping a daily record of what is going on.

Javier Solana's solutions
( to all the problems that we don't
have yet but we're going to )
1 Beef up the EU !
2 More money for the EU !
3 Global taxes
4 Give Javier Solana more power
5 Tear down America
6 Smile at, and then tear down
7 Don't question #'s 1-6


You're right. Last year, Doctors and other medical staff did little to help my father. I was living in Australia and my mother was overwhelmed and trusted the doctors implicitly. When she related test results, doctor comments, appointment schedules etc. I knew doctors had given up on him. He was diabetic and had emphysema. I'm not a doctor, but even the JAMA literature was clearly in opposition to their treatment plan. Our loved ones need strong, informed advocates. Thanks for your information.

Prison for non vaccination?
Thanks for the support anonymous.

Two pieces of information showing trends. From the NYTimes, but more can be found by doing a Google search. At the very least, it will revive the discussion on euthanasia.

1. March 12, 2008, 3:02 pm
A Kevorkian Candidacy in Michigan?
By Mike Nizza

Dr. Jack Kevorkian walking to freedom last June. (Pool photo by Carlos Osorio.)Having sworn off the death machine he invented, Dr. Jack Kevorkian has apparently decided to cast his lot with the ballot box by running for Congress. The news that practically satirized itself was reported by a local paper in Michigan, The Oakland Press, which spotted him picking up petitions from the county clerk:
“I plan to,” Kevorkian said Tuesday afternoon. “I wouldn’t do this otherwise. We need some honesty and sincerity instead of corrupt government in Washington.”
Kevorkian said he would have more to say about his candidacy next week. “Everything’s in a formative stage,” he said.
Perhaps sensing voter aversion to partisan politics these days (or the local Democrats’ and Republicans’ aversion to him), Mr. Kevorkian has decided on an independent run, the report said. He’ll need 3,000 signatures to get on the ballot....

2. Check WorldNetDaily for their story on Google's latest antisemitic listing.


Anonymous 3:24 story....better link
Wow thanks for the link.
I can't stop reading it.

This isn't new information. It appears the story has been carried on many conservative Christian websites. Deerfield HS in Illinois had students read this pornographic homosexual play. When parents complained, it was withdrawn as required reading, but is still optional reading.

Here is the column on the story which I received.

The column contains a warning that content from the play is pornographic. However, since the school feels students can handle it, perhaps you can also to learn what they are reading.

I'm not including all of the comments I sent to others, but here is my final comment:

"As I've written, when the religious community abandons its role as teacher of morality, the state takes over to determine what is moral behavior. In this case the state, under the banner of the Deerfield School District, has determined that this is the morality it wishes to teach the future generation of highly educated professionals. Why doesn't the school complete the picture and pour sacks of feces over the students so that their outside matches what their minds will look like after the school is finished with them."

Just to show there is a link between information and abortion in this country and what is happening in the EU on that topic.


EU Split Widens as Abortion Roils UN Negotiations/Pro-Lifers Complain About UN Security
By Samantha Singson
Mar 8, 2008
(NEW YORK — C-FAM) A split in the European Union (EU) over abortion continued to shape negotiations at the UN this week during the annual meeting of the Commission at the Status of Women (CSW) in New York. Last week non-EU member Norway, likely acting as a stalking horse for pro-abortion EU countries, proposed inclusion of the term “sexual and reproductive health and rights” in the draft agreed conclusions. Norway's move caused increasing dissent among EU members.

Last week Poland and Malta spoke out against Norway's proposal causing Slovenia, the president of the EU, to announce that the normally unified EU bloc would not have a common position on the Norwegian proposal. While the majority of the EU member states strongly supported inclusion of “sexual and reproductive rights” in the document, Poland, Ireland and Malta broke ranks from their EU colleagues and called for the deletion of the Norwegian language. (more at link)

About Indigo child:

See the movie "Vitus"


Vitus is a boy who almost seems to be from another planet: he has hearing like a bat, he plays piano like a virtuoso and studies encyclopaedias at the age of five.\
howdy, this heres ozark. i was thinking about how interesting life is gonna be in the new soon to come millenium,with Jesus there with us and all. God the father is gonna get us thru all this other just as sure as eggs is eggs, and as sure as my feet ache,- dont any of you worry about that.i figure firstoff we'll take and celebrate for quite a while... You guys in?
Re: http://tinyurl.com/3bbxeg
link posted by Dorothy on EU parents being jailed for refusing to have their kids vaccinated: How long until ditto treatment for refusing a "protective" chipmobile service?!

I can see it coming ! ! !ce

From Slice of Laodicea:

Link to Alliance for a New Humanity's website:


They have a Human Forum going on now in Costa Rica. But, the top banner of the site is eerily remniscent of Barack Obama: Be the change, Share the Passion, Make a Difference

Per Deepak Chopra on the site:

"As I travel around the world it has become clear to me that humanity is longing for three things: (a) tools for personal transformation, (b) a way to serve without selfish motivations and (c) a desire to connect with each other and build deep relationships. Society now has the means, methods and technologies to provide these tools for personal transformation, to offer opportunities for service and to connect people at a deeper level and at a global scale. This is the process that we are setting in motion with the Alliance.

And through the meaningful relationships we build with each other, we will find deep energy to further our own personal transformation and that of our institutions, society and the world."

Oh joy............
I just listened to Chopra-and the collective new age drum beat is "compassion"

"We feel love and compassion and we act on it. And where there is a need we find a way." -Chopra

If I see a friend, or even a stranger, going to destruction, I want to tell them. But heaven forbid if I say my way is the only way!
Rather than the chip it could be the new ink that is permanent and can be used like a bar code which actually works better than the chip. With the new horrific computers it would work the same and you couldn't cut it out.

I understand scaners are good for 20+ feet. People would be more likely to take it.

Ink sounds more like the Bible as it is a Mark.

Satelites can read a licence plate and who knows what else, but would it cause a sore?

We shall know soon.

Come quickly Lord Jesus and now is great!

Sometimes I need an escape into another world, one where concerns about the future are not troubling. A few years ago I found an easy way to do this, and so I offer the idea to others who also need an escape.

At the top of the first page you will see "search blog" "flag blog" and "next blog." Travel the world going from next blog to next blog. It's an wonderful escape.

And I say, Oh, that I had wings like a dove! I would fly away and be at rest.
Yes, I would wander far away, I would lodge in the wilderness, Selah!
I would hasten to escape and to find a shelter from the stormy wind and tempest.
:16 As for me, I will call upon God, and the LORD will save me.”
Butterfield put an interesting comment at the end of the last thread. It is duplicated on his website which has a link on the first page here.

A prophet of the new age, HG Wells wrote accurately about the coming new world order as far back as 1901 in his work "Anticipations: Of the Reaction of Mechanical and Scientific Progress upon Human life and Thought."

Wells anticipated, “…a world-state with a common language and a common rule. All over the world its roads, its standards, its laws, and its apparatus of control will run." He accurately predicted that the apparatus of control will be the technological systems we’ve come to rely on in conducting nearly every aspect of our modern lives.

See article: Anticipations of The New Republic: The Vision of H.G. Wells
By Daniel Taylor

I hope everyone will read the H.G. Wells article you gave us the link to. I was familiar with 'The Open Conspiracy' but not 'Anticipations'
Of particular interest to me was the section following the heading,
"Where did Wells get these ideas?"
In my opinion, the Huxley family and Margaret Sanger were indisputably influencial to Wells, OR clearly, inhabited by the same spirit which has inspired ALL. There is no such thing as coincidence. Thanks very much.
Dorothy, Thanks for the 'heads-up' on Butterfield's info. Everything appears to be moving along according to plan. This paper
'ANNEX 1-List of strategic and priority initiatives, has information (bottom pg 15 & top of pg 16) under 'Migration package'refers to "Communication on Entry/exit system and other border management tools (e.g. Electronic Travel Authorization)" and more on "Communication Surveillance System". This ties in with Butterfield's information.
Also, RABIT -"Rapid Border Intervention Teams"

December 05, 2007 Press release re. "RABIT"



News about RABIT
RABIT to run EU border patrols





I haven't found too much yet about FRONTEX

10:39 AM oldmanoftheski said...
Too busy playing with toys, or just sitting at home waiting for the rapture?

Maybe you don't believe in the "rapture" But there's no need to blame people that do for lack of commitment in the church.
Maybe people are praying somewhere else seeing that you don't need to show yourself in public to be heard by God.

I personally believe in a "pre trib rapture" But I'm prepared to go through whatever the Lord wills And do whatever is needed now.


Amen ozark, I can't wait for a thousand years of normality.


Mat 24:37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
Mat 24:41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.
Mat 24:42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into.
Mat 24:44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Luk 17:28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot--they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building,
Luk 17:29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all--
Luk 17:30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back.
Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
Luk 17:33 Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will keep it.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left.
Luk 17:35 There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left."
1Th 4:15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
1Th 5:1 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you.
1Th 5:2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
1Th 5:4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

Love to you all.. Adam
P.s.. Paul, Glad you know about the feasts of Israel, That's partly how I came to the Lord through studying them.
Several trusted Christian apologetics sites are pointing out information regarding the participation of some “emergent” church leaders (Rob Bell and Doug Pagitt) in an upcoming Interspiritual Day Event called “Seeds of Compassion” Other participants in this event include, the Dalai Lama, Archbishop Desmond Tutu and 10 other prominent “spiritual” leaders . See ‘Apprising Ministries’ article:


Seeds of Compassion website:


The Dalai Lama is also scheduled to close the December 9, 2009 Parliament of the World’s Religions to be held in Melbourne, Australia.
"“Since 1993, a Parliament of the World’s Religions has convened every five years in a major international city (Chicago 1993, Cape Town 1999, Barcelona 2004). Sponsored by the Council for a Parliament of the World’s Religions, the 2009 Parliament will take place in Melbourne, Australia. A multi-religious, multi-lingual, and multicultural city, Melbourne offers an ideal location for the 2009 Parliament.”
2009 Parliament website:


The main page for the Parliament of the World’s Religions has recently been up-dated. You can read a very detailed account of its history from 1893 thru the upcoming 2009 Parliament. (Click on ‘Explore’ at top of page.) Double-clicking each interactive section will reveal even more, including the declarations presented at each consecutive Parliament through the years. On the “top-bar” clicking
“1893 Parliament” will reveal photographs of the 24 speakers from the original Parliament,
and even the text of the speeches each presented. -Rudi

You'll see why I don't post here now.

I'm not sure if I do believe in "pre trib rapture" Because the Church has been persecuted since it began, up to the present day.
But I do feel it will be soon, before the antichrist and false prophet take control. For in the scripture the Lord says:
Mat 24:41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left.
Does this sound like armageddon or even tribulation?

An interesting question.
If our souls are saved through faith in God and walking on water depended on faith etc, would our "rapture" also depend on it?

Thanks to everyone that posts here with information, I'm going to just lurk again and appreciate your study. (sorry for interrupting)
Sorry Adam. I don't get it. Why don't you post? I don't get your explanation.
Seems like Vitus has some type of high-functioning autism. The EU is threating economic sanctions on the U.S. and China if they don't comply with climate control measures within a year. Here's an article on it:


I accidently posted this in the wrong comments section.
Hi Anonymous 8:07 PM
(did you see my post at 5:17 PM ? what don't you understand?)

I don't post Because I'm not confident enough and don't explain what I'm thinking too well.
All I know is that we should be ready for the Lord constantly and not be too confident in our own understanding of future events. If someone has decided that we're all to be persecuted then that is what they've put their faith in and aren't really looking for the Lord until that happens.

I was just trying to say to Mr ski that he shouldn't make jokes of people that might be more dedicated to the cause than he is, probably more so if they think they're not here for much longer.

I will just post information I find that will be of use to people.
Take care
Well said, Adam. Blessings to you.
Anonymous 8:23:

So in other words the EU is saying: we're going to be idiots and we're going to punish you for not following us into this lunacy. Brilliant. I love it.
Anon 5:17 (Adam?)

You are right, my sarcasm (joke) was not appropriate. I apologize. But the discussion is too important to let stand as is.

I am familiar with all the scriptures you posted, yet none confirms a pre-tribulation “rapture” viewpoint. The debate regarding God’s timing will be ended soon enough I reckon. You are very right in saying we should be prepared always.

"Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way."
- Romans 14:13
Scripture clearly warns us not to pass judgment on others, or set a bad example. Yet the widespread belief in a pre-trib rapture is perhaps the single biggest stumbling block to spiritual growth and maturity in mainstream Christianity today. The negative effect this idea has had on the life of the Church should not be underestimated. I can think of no better set-up for the “great falling away” than for millions of people to set their hopes on escaping tribulation when the Lord instead desires us to be in training everyday so we may not fall short, but actually finish the race.

It’s tough to critique an idea without passing judgment on the people who believe the idea. Sarcasm often masks anger, and while I try not to insult or inflame, it was indeed my intention to link belief in a pre-rib rapture to apathy within the Church. That should not be misconstured as me saying I'm better than someone else because I marched and they didn't. That was not my intention. Prayer in one's closet is better than marching in public, yet our adversary is advancing because both are faltering.

I understand I could be in the wrong in warning people not to assume they will escape the coming pain. If so, I’ll take my lumps for it. On the other hand, if my brethren are still here with me while the “birth pangs” gather in intensity, there will be no solace in saying I told you so.

As to what happens first…

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
(2Th 2:1-4)
Another view of 2Thes2:1-5


In Christ.
Kathleen Keating has a new column up on her website:


She seems to think things are progressing very rapidly.

Oldmanoftheski, though I appreciate most of your comments, I, with respect, disagree with your analysis: “Yet the widespread belief in a pre-trib rapture is perhaps the single biggest stumbling block to spiritual growth and maturity in mainstream Christianity today.” Our unloving and uncaring for the brethren and the lost has been and is. Sad to see it demonstrated here in you comment.
Rose and Anon 4:54,
Thanks for the links.
Kathleen Keating isn't mincing
her words, is she ?

Yours, and I always sign my name,
Anon 6:56,

If I didn't care for the brethern or the lost, I wouldn't bother posting such lengthy comments here.

Today's Daily Bread reading sums up my philosophy better than anything I could ever try to write...

"Perhaps your work will be one brief task, like the donkey’s single act of service. Or it may be some activity that will fully occupy your years until your Master calls you home. It may be an opportunity to share your faith with someone, to intercede for him, or to love him through quiet acts of mercy, friendly visits, or to extend some small courtesy. There will always be something for you to do."

"In the meantime, you and I must stand and wait, preparing ourselves through prayer, Bible reading, and quiet listening—ready for the moment that our Lord has need of us."

"Will you be ready when He needs you?" — David H. Roper
Hi Mr ski
As I said before the Church has been persecuted since it began And is still being badly persecuted as we speak in many countries, That's not to say that it won't get worse But that finishing the race isn't just for us sitting here in relative comfort waiting for a time of trouble, it's being run by many thousands of people every day.
Are people ignoring these Because they think the race hasn't even started yet? maybe not But it's just the same as saying "pre-trib" is ignoring other duties.

As for falling away, the church is having a great falling away already with new-age ideas (rethink conference, Apostolic Reformation, ecumenicalism with all religions etc etc) which is one of the reasons I come on here to get information to warn people of the growing dangers.

"pre-trib rapture is perhaps the single biggest stumbling block to spiritual growth and maturity"
I'd say the opposite, that to be ready for the Lord you can't just be sitting there twiddling your thumbs. you have to work on your growth and maturity in order to be ready.
If there is a "rapture" and people aren't ready, how would they feel being left behind (I hate that expression And don't intend to read the books of the same name) Would they feel or act any better than people expecting a "rapture" but not seeing one? (I dread to think of the people that aren't even ready for anything at all to happen soon)

It would be foolish to think we know exactly what is going to happen, Which is why DouginMI is quite wise in saying "pray for pre, hope for mid, plan for post" (although I'd rather prepare for "post" than plan for it)

Mat 24:42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.

My love and thoughts go to everyone here. May God bless us all in wisdom, knowledge, understanding and strength.
oops.. Above post was from Adam

I was just asking for clarity. That's all.
Hi Anonymous 1:14 PM
Yes, But unless I discuss this with oldmanoftheski there will be unrest in my mind. Also if he's putting people off thinking for themselves then I need to address that.
Please forgive me if you think it's a bit long winded.
Take care
Hi old man ski
Sorry for my comment about "putting people off thinking for themselves" I know that wasn't your intention.
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