Monday, December 24, 2007

PEACE ON EARTH? SOLANA'S CHRISTMAS PRESENT THIS YEAR?



PROTOCOL ON PERMANENT STRUCTURED COOPERATION ESTABLISHED BY ARTICLE 28 A OF THE TREATY ON EUROPEAN UNION


17.12.2007 EN Official Journal of the European Union C 306/153



THE HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES, HAVING REGARD TO Article 28 A(6) and Article 28 E of the Treaty on European Union,


RECALLING that the Union is pursuing a common foreign and security policy based on the achievement of growing convergence of action by Member States;


RECALLING that the common security and defence policy is an integral part of the common foreign and security policy; that it provides the Union with operational capacity drawing on civil and military assets; that the Union may use such assets in the tasks referred to in Article 28 B of the Treaty on European Union outside the Union for peace-keeping, conflict prevention and strengthening international security in accordance with the principles of the United Nations Charter; that the performance of these tasks is to be undertaken using capabilities provided by the Member States in accordance with the principle of a single set of forces;


17.12.2007 EN Official Journal of the European Union C 306/153


RECALLING that the common security and defence policy of the Union does not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States;


RECALLING that the common security and defence policy of the Union respects the obligations under the North Atlantic Treaty of those Member States which see their common defence realised in the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which remains the foundation of the collective defence of its members, and is compatible with the common security and defence policy established within that framework;


CONVINCED that a more assertive Union role in security and defence matters will contribute to the vitality of a renewed Atlantic Alliance, in accordance with the Berlin Plus arrangements;


DETERMINED to ensure that the Union is capable of fully assuming its responsibilities within the international community;


RECOGNISING that the United Nations Organisation may request the Union's assistance for the urgent implementation of missions undertaken under Chapters VI and VII of the United Nations Charter;


RECOGNISING that the strengthening of the security and defence policy will require efforts by Member States in the area of capabilities;


CONSCIOUS that embarking on a new stage in the development of the European security and defence policy involves a determined effort by the Member States concerned;


RECALLING the importance of the High Representative [Javier Solana] of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy being fully involved in proceedings relating to permanent structured cooperation, [EMPHASIS ADDED!]


HAVE AGREED UPON the following provisions, which shall be annexed to the Treaty on European Union and to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union:


Article 1 The permanent structured cooperation referred to in Article 28 A(6) of the Treaty on European Union shall be open to any Member State which undertakes from the date of entry into force of the Treaty of Lisbon, to:

(a) proceed more intensively to develop its defence capacities through the development of its national contributions and participation, where appropriate, in multinational forces, in the main European equipment programmes, and in the


activity of the Agency in the field of defence capabilities development, research, acquisition and armaments (European Defence Agency), and


(b) have the capacity to supply by 2010 at the latest, either at national level or as a component of multinational force groups, targeted combat units for the missions planned, structured at a tactical level as a battle group, with support elements including transport and logistics, capable of carrying out the tasks referred to in Article 28 B of the Treaty on European Union, within a period of 5 to 30 days, in particular in response to requests from the United Nations Organisation, and which can be sustained for an initial period of 30 days and be extended up to at least 120 days.


Article 2


To achieve the objectives laid down in Article 1, Member States participating in permanent structured cooperation shall undertake to:


The Euro(a) cooperate, as from the entry into force of the Treaty of Lisbon, with a view to achieving approved objectives concerning the level of investment expenditure on defence equipment, and regularly review these objectives, in the light of the security environment and of the Union's international responsibilities;


C 306/154 EN Official Journal of the European Union 17.12.2007


(b) bring their defence apparatus into line with each other as far as possible, particularly by harmonising the identification of their military needs, by pooling and, where appropriate, specialising their defence means and capabilities, and by encouraging cooperation in the fields of training and logistics;


(c) take concrete measures to enhance the availability, interoperability, flexibility and deployability of their forces, in particular by identifying common objectives regarding the commitment of forces, including possibly reviewing their national decision-making procedures;


(d) work together to ensure that they take the necessary measures to make good, including through multinational approaches, and without prejudice to undertakings in this regard within the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, the shortfalls perceived in the framework of the 'Capability Development Mechanism';


(e) take part, where appropriate, in the development of major joint or European equipment programmes in the framework of the European Defence Agency.




Article 3


The European Defence Agency shall contribute to the regular assessment of participating Member States' contributions with regard to capabilities, in particular contributions made in accordance with the criteria to be established, inter alia, on the basis of Article 2, and shall report thereon at least once a year. The assessment may serve as a basis for Council recommendations and decisions adopted in accordance with Article 28 E of the Treaty on European Union.


Comments:
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/cms3_fo/focusView.ASP?lang=EN

2007-2008: milestones for the European Union
 
What is the significance of 2010 here?
 
2007 seems to be the
Year of Peace and Safety.
Im sure 2008 will be full
of more security.
I'd like to know who
drafted it and decided to
begin with the word
"Protocols"?

..and hurt not the oil
or the wine.

Yours
Paul
 
Felon given senior Wikipedia role
 
Thanks to Dorothy for the email follow up!

Dorothy emailed me this morning with this link about will smith. As many of you know I posted a little thing about him and how I thought he was caught up in the Secret or at least some sort of New Age leaning.

http://tinyurl.com/3bf5wr

and original article here:

http://tinyurl.com/2h5uhm

You can also google will smith Hitler and come up with several places picking up the stories. However, page6 (an entertainment mag) has already deleted from their site.
 
Constance,

Take a look at the very last thing on this web page on the cohesion policy.

http://tinyurl.com/24btc3
 
SIGNIFICANCE OF 2010? READ FROM POSTED ARTICLE/PROTOCOL:

Article 1 The permanent structured cooperation referred to in Article 28 A(6) of the Treaty on European Union shall be open to any Member State which undertakes from the date of entry into force of the Treaty of Lisbon, to:
. . .


(b) have the capacity to supply by 2010 at the latest, either at national level or as a component of multinational force groups, targeted combat units for the missions planned, structured at a tactical level as a battle group, with support elements including transport and logistics, capable of carrying out the tasks referred to in Article 28 B of the Treaty on European Union, within a period of 5 to 30 days, in particular in response to requests from the United Nations Organisation, and which can be sustained for an initial period of 30 days and be extended up to at least 120 days.


P.S. I eliminated the capacity to run ads from this site. Notice it is down!!!!
 
hello, i emailed you but got an error. anyway here's the reg cleaner i uses, this shit is good, don't stay without protection!
 
Go tell it on the mountain
Over the hills and everywhere
Go tell it on the mountain
That Jesus Christ is born !

Hallelujah!
Hallelujah!

In Jesus the true Christ
Jesus the only Christ
To whom every knee will bow
and every tongue confess

Glory to God
The Savior is born!
Messiah !
JESUS
The True Light that
came into the world

Okey I'm done,

Paul
 
Paul, I hope your not done:"From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

It was said by a great preacher that God "had to be triune, because God is love and love must have an object and the Spirit between them."
Setterman
 
Sorry for this double post. I posted in the wrong section first. -Rudi

I found some additional information this morning which will compliment Constances Monday December 24, 2007 "My Perspective"

"ESDP and EU mission update
Number 36, December 2007"

“Terminologically, The High Representative for CFSP and Secretary General of the Council, Javier Solana, will become the ‘High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy’ rather than ‘Minister’, as well as Vice-President of the Commission (HR/VP)- this adjustment from the Constitutional suggestion of ‘Minister” is to dispel disquiet of certain Member States vis-a’-vis the supersession of the role of their Foreign Ministers. Mainly driven by the UK, this title adjustment as well as the text outlining that the role of the HR/VP “does not affect the responsibilities of member states”, will give no new powers to the Commission or the European Parliament. (Article 30 and 31). See “The Treaty of Lisbon: Implementing the Institutional Innovations”…

…”In another structural change, there will now be a position of permanent President of the European Council. Elected for two and a half years, this person will liaise closely with the HR/VP and, in effect, replace the role previously played by the six-month Council Presidency. Although designed to improve coherence and representation at the top, there is a danger that this tier of decision making becomes rather too ‘crowded’. It will also be important to ensure that the right personalities are chosen.”

“In this respect, the approval of the new Civilian Headline Goal (CHG 2010), to be launched in January 2008, is aimed at rectifying lack of civilian capabilities to manage crises. CHG 2010 should allow better access to suitable
personnel for civilian and civil-military operations.”


http://tinyurl.com/2mfa66

or

http://www.isis-europe.org/pdf/2007
_artrel_77_esr36esdpmission-update.pdf

"Revising the European Security Strategy:
Building a secure Europe in a better world"
Number 35 October 2007
see:

http://www.isis-europe.org/pdf/2007_artrel_12_esr35secure-europe_pdf

"CHG 2010" (Civilian Headline Goals 2010) see:

http://tinyurl.com/3acza8

or
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cmsUpload/Civilian_Headline_Goal_2010.pdf
 
Am neither a lawyer nor a statesman, but the following verbiage seems a transparent "power play," imho (from Rudi's post, above).

"...the role of the HR/VP “does not affect the responsibilities of member states”, will give no new powers to the Commission or the European Parliament. (Article 30 and 31)."

How about the EU Council, where most of the EU power already lies, and where our very good friend, Dr. Solana is Sec. Gen. (Would be laughable, imho, if it weren't so serious.)

"...in effect, replace the role previously played by the six-month Council Presidency. Although designed to improve coherence and representation at the top, there is a danger that this tier of decision making becomes rather too ‘crowded.’"

Translation: The 6-month EU Council presidency is (due to its relative brevity) mostly "toothless," so to speak, but the new EU presidency, with max. 5-years term, will definitely be largely ceremonial, with the "left-over" power given over to the EU Council Sec. Gen., no doubt.

Deceitful is right.

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Years.

A fellow watchwoman
 
Doctor Javier Solana
6 6 6
_his title and name

Just guessing of course.

Yours truly
Paul
 
I was just curious how many of you THINK Solana is the one, and how many of you KNOW he is. Just wondering.

Dave
 
Dave,

We can not be 100% sure about Solana, but there are so many things pointing to him that it will be a surprise if it is not him. We will only be 100% sure in the middle of the 7 years when he (or someone else)enters the temple in Israel.

But Constance and Herb has been keeping Solana in radar since 1995 and in this 12 years he has become more and more a player in the end time scene. And that is why we keep on watching...
 
A fellow watchwoman:
You brought out some excellent points in your comments. ("transparent "power play," and the deceit taking place). I noticed something else as I read the information. Perhaps,(most likely, I suppose) it's just the way European writers of reports phrase their documents, but the references to the leadership over and over as "actors" sounded very odd to me. -Rudi
"ESDP and EU mission update
Number 36, December 2007":

..."replace 'THE ROLE PREVIOUSLY PLAYED' by the six-month Council Presidency."

Civilian Headline Goal 2010:
"The EU strengthens its co-ordination and co-operation with external 'ACTORS'
as appropriate
and in full respect of EU's autonomous decision-making."
11)...Synergies relevant to crisis management capabilities should be identified and fully exploited between civilian and military ESDP, European Community, as well as 'THIRD PILLAR ACTORS', with a view to maximizing coherence in the field as well as at Brussels level.
13. Synergies with 'THIRD PILLAR ACTORS'...
14. "The CHG 2010 should identify and exploit possible synergies with 'OTHER ACTORS' in civilian crisis management, which include International Organisations, Regional Organisations and 'OTHER MAJOR ACTORS', e.g. non-EU States and civil society through Non-governmental Organisations and Civil Society Organisations, in line with agreed principles and in full respect of the EU's autonomous decision-making. Contributions of 'NON-EU ACTORS'are to be considered as supplementary to the overall EU capacity rather than as an integral part thereof."
http://tinyurl.com/3acza8
 
My 2 cents...no one can be sure who the AC is until he is revealed. Solana may just be another guy who helped to facilitate a Global Role for the AC. Or he could be the one. I think what we may be seeing is the “vehicle” being prepared via the EU & UN etc, and the people here are doing splendid jobs tracking its development. The world will probably only know for sure about mid 70th week - although I may be wrong here.
Speaking of which, I'm astonished to read that some people are prepared to consider that the 70th week may have already begun. I read something to the effect at Herb's site. If I remember correctly, Holly was weighing the idea about whether a Temple was really needed to fulfil prophecy. Well, in my opinion, it does – not for the cessation of the sacrifice but for the full meaning of the Abomination of Desolation. I used to wonder about that too. But looking at the relevant prophetic scripture, I don’t see how you cannot have a Temple. We should take care not to force current global news into fulfilled Biblical prophecy because of our particular eschatological views. We are not in the 70th week – we have no Temple, no two witnesses and nothing yet in the way of a covenant confirmed by the AC. Politically speaking, Israel isn’t even close to resuming sacrifices despite the Sanhedrin’s preparations. I believe something fairly dramatic needs to happen to facilitate this. Just think of the worldwide condemnation of Israel when they do begin sacrifices! At the moment they are constantly weathering boycotts from the leftist churches over the alleged mistreatment of Palestinians. Currently, Israel will not even allow Christians and Jews to pray on the Temple Mount. Can anyone imagine the media reaction to animal sacrifice in the 21st century? It would take a major & dramatic mind-set shift from Israel’s government to allow it. So those who believe we’re already in the 70th week need events to go into hyper-drive because time is running out. We aren't there yet. But keep looking up.

Hope everyone had a safe and blessed Christmas.
 
Mac, I agree with your summation. There are many watchful eyes here, that's a good thing, and there is many reasonable minds as well. I think it is easy to get carried away with the on the brink mindset, I do, but one must be careful to not "Cry Wolf" when he is not yet in site; the world ridicules us for it. When it comes it will however, come as a flood, and that is why all this preparation is so important. Unlike some, I believe that all this warning will have its effect after the flood, not to mention the good is doing now. Remember how Rehab said: "we have heard how the LORD. . ."
Yours in Christ:
Setterman
 
Mac,

I wouldn't rule out Herb's/Holly's thesis just yet. The exact interpretation of that is still to be learned by all of us. Catholics interpret that passage as meaning a stop will be put to their mass and they claim that post Jesus, an animal sacrificed could never be a perfect offering.

Ervin Baxter says that his Israeli contacts say that all is in readiness.

Dorothy, Jewish herself, has sent me some compelling evidence that temple construction may be very near.

Meanwhile, Javier Solana and company are clearly battling religious fundamentalism worldwide. Rich of Medford brought some more evidence of this to me this weekend.

SECTION 666, RECOMMENDATION 666, a November 20, 1995 treaty with Israel reconfirmed for period from January 1, 2007 through December 31, 2013 with a review period up in 2010, the same year that the European Headline Goal is in place -- there is just too much happening to go back to sleep

... we all see through glass darkly, and time and events will tell.

We must keep watching, but like the Israelis during their Babylonian exile were warned to build houses and settle in, we must not neglect ordinary life concerns . . .
 
Hi Dave,
Mr. Solana being the AC is but a thought - but his prfole does seem better than most. There are a number of possibilities.
Only 1 thing I know for sure - Jesus Christ is Lord and in HIm I put my trust.

DouginMI
 
Mac, where do you think Scripture states that there has to be a temple for the 70th week to start? As far as I know, it only says it has to be there by the AOD, which is "in the midst of the week".

Check your facts, bud.
 
"Mac, where do you think Scripture states that there has to be a temple for the 70th week to start?...Check your facts, bud. "

Well, David, perhaps you should carefully reread what I actually said and not infer things. Of course the 70th week doesn’t need a Temple to start, but the AOD needs a Temple at mid week. But given the current political climate, Israel is unlikely to allow a Jewish Temple to be built on the Temple Mount in the near future. They ARE AFRAID of the socio-political consequences. With all due respect, the Sanhedrin has been talking about the closeness of a Temple for years. Israel is still largely secular although the trend is beginning to shift, so there is no real pressure for the Government to allow one to be built. At the moment, the Sanhedrin is all dressed up with nowhere to go. I believe it will take some sort of crisis (not necessarily Gog & Magog but perhaps the destruction of Damascus) for Israel to assert herself enough to allow a Temple. Having said that, some speculate the Temple could be built elsewhere and I think the idea has merit.

But, David, let me ask you this – what is the compelling evidence that we’re in the 70th week? Annapolis was a debacle – where is the covenant with many? Where are the two witnesses? Do they come along later in the week, like the Temple?

Rev 11:3 "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days (42 months), clothed in sackcloth." These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way. These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire. When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.

So if we really are in the 70th week, someone had better tell the players to begin doing their respective things or else it’s going to be a pretty hectic week!

Constance, I agree, there’s no doubt the pieces of the prophetic puzzle are coming together. But I take issue with the claim that we’re already in Daniel’s 70th week. I’d love it to be true - despite the terrible consequences - because it would mean that the Lord is at the door. But let’s not be like the poor UFO and Bigfoot chasers who see things that aren’t there! We owe it to our own credibility to discern current events carefully in light of scripture.
 
Correction: The Temple Institute has neen talking about the closeness of a Temple for years -not the Sanhedrin.
 
Headline Goal 2010
approved by General Affairs and External Relations Council on 17 May 2004
endorsed by the European Council of 17 and 18 June 2004
A. The 2010 Headline Goal
1. The European Union is a global actor, ready to share in the responsibility for global security. With the adoption by the European Council in December 2003 of the European Security Strategy, it affirmed the role it wants to play in the world, supporting an international order based on effective multilateralism within the UN. In this context of new dangers but also new opportunities, Member States' strong commitment to give the enlarged European Union the tools to make a major contribution to security and stability in a ring of well governed countries around Europe and in the world is stronger than ever. The EU has the civilian and military framework needed to face the multifaceted nature of these new threats. The availability of effective instruments including military assets will often play a crucial role at the beginning of a crisis, during its development and/or in the post conflict phase.
 
http://tinyurl.com/3dgpv5
 
One Europe/One World Under Solana? 2010 Headline Goal will be a most impressive start:

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/mod/listings/l0023.html
 
"I heard the bells on Christmas Day
Their old familiar carols play
Then loud ad sweet I heard the words
of Peace on Earth, Good will to men

THERE IS NO PEACE ON EARTH, I SAID"
 
B U R M A S H A V E
 
Rudi, someone seems to fancy himself the "director" and everyone else merely "actors" (of varying degrees), or "non-actors."

Have a nice evening.

A fellow watchwoman

P.S. Anonymous 7:53, you may wish to check your link,
http://tinyurl.com/3dgpv5
 
I wonder how Solana will handle Serbia with its recent resolution to not join the EU or NATO. Check it out:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071226/ap_on_re_eu/serbia_kosovo_3

David in Battle Creek
 
Mac:

"But, David, let me ask you this – what is the compelling evidence that we’re in the 70th week? Annapolis was a debacle – where is the covenant with many? Where are the two witnesses? Do they come along later in the week, like the Temple?"

Many people have false expectations of a peace treaty between Israel and a middle-eastern anti-christ, but you won't find this in Scripture. I believe the ENP fits the bill to the T, and I haven't seen anybody who's been able to disqualify it based on Scripture instead of man's reasoning.

Compelling evidence? Have you been following these blogs? Have you read the Reccomendation(s) 666? Find a Scripture that declares that the Two Witnesses will be around for the first 1260 days. They would have to be for pre-trib to work, but there's alot of things that have been twisted around to try and make that doctrine appear to, and that is one of them. I believe satan has been working to give people false expectations so they won't see it coming... i.e., a "thief in the night". Every 1260 day event in Scripture as far as Eschatology goes appears to be simultanious to me, and I've never seen any decisive evidence otherwise.

Check out my blog for what I think the first seal may have been(and likely was), there's a link under "key posts".

Once again, check your facts.
 
mac, you may want to check this out:

http://thepre-wrathtribune.blogspot.com/2007/07/timing-two-witnesses.html
 
ok that didn't work. Here's a link
 
Here's another link regarding the Serbs. A while back Constance pointed out to me that two groups of people were independent enough to fight the NWO and the EU, the Serbs and the Israelis. Without that insight I didn't have a clue what the battle over Kosovo was and why Solana was involved in both. That's why both groups are being slapped down so hard.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071226/ap_on_re_eu/serbia_kosovo;_ylt=AoPcSDkAMDXg_TkEgv3OVHis0NUE
 
The link I gave didn't seem to work when it was posted here. Here's another try.
http://tinyurl.com/2odrde

If this doesn't work, do your own search using the appropriate terms.

Dorothy
 
The European Neighbourhood Policy is a "Covenant with Many" -- with many countries . . . read Herb's analysis, it is right on !!!
 
Sorry, guys; call me a doubting Thomas, but I think the ENP is just that, the ENP, until something more concrete turns up. It wasn’t specifically designed to address the ME problem and IMO I think it’s a stretch to call it out as being the covenant signed by many. So far Solana, Blair, Rice and Bush have been impotent in striking a peace deal in the ME - this, despite the fact that Bush and Rice have been coercing Israel behind the scenes to make concessions. But here’s another inconsistency. Unless I’m mistaken no one here has, as yet, come straight out and called Solana the AC. I’m certainly not prepared to as I can come up with other plausible scenarios. I can only speculate that what Constance and Herb have discovered is very intriguing to say the least but that Solana may just be one of the many people facilitating the “Throne” for the AC. But shouldn’t those who are convinced that we are, in fact, in the 70th week also be convinced that Solana is the Antichrist? Is anyone posting on this blog prepared to call him that and warn people? I certainly wouldn’t be.

David, it’s not a fact that we’re in the 70th week; it’s pure speculation. Beware sensationalism. And speaking of facts; you make a very good point about checking them.
There are many different views out there regarding the rapture, Gog & Magog and Daniel’s 70th week. I find this perspective of the timing of the Two Witnesses more convincing than your hypothesis. But as Christians we can have differences and still get along, right?
The Two Witnesses: First or Second Half of the Tribulation?
 
There's no harm in getting different perspectives.
The EU And The 7 Year Treaty
 
I am still wondering why there are many who think it will be a peace treaty?
I read there will be a "confirmation of a coveneant" - but I do not read pace treaty -
Dan.9
[27] "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
I know that many read into this peace treaty due to the fact of the statement "when they say peace and saftey" - but beyond that I thinl it is reading into the scripture.

DouginMI
 
With all due respect, Mac, your statement re. "pure speculation" hints at ignorance of the facts and is no less than a "slap in the face," in my humble opinion, to the fastidious scholarship of Mr. Herb Peters, Constance and others.

Have a nice day.

A fellow watchwoman
 
This comment has been removed by the author.
 
"DouginMI said...

I am still wondering why there are many who think it will be a peace treaty?"

I think this is for several reasons. 1) the popularity of Tim Lahaye.
2) the following interpretations (promoted by Lahaye):
a. The first horse(Rev 6:2) being one who conquers by peace
b. That Daniel's 70 week is a 7 year period.
c. Daniel 9:25-27's confirmation of a treaty is a peace treaty.
I am sure there is more but those are the ones that I can remember. You must remember that these ideas are not only in Lahaye's non-fiction books but is all in his "Left Behind" series (which several if not all were on the best seller list) sold 65 million copies.

I hope this helps.
 
Hi Dawn,
Well here is Daniel 9:25-27 -- "009:025 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
009:026 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
009:027 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. "
from the Authorized KJV - but I do not see the word peace.
I do understand Mr. Lahaye's position, but being a best selling author does not make him wrong - or right. The Left Behind series is a novel he wrote peppered with some Biblica items.
Rick Warren is extremely popular and sold millions of copies of his books also - but I would disagree with him on numerous things - which in his eyes and own writings means I should be put out of his assembly.
Yes, I agree the 70th week is a 7 year period.

I do know what it says in Revelation 6:2 regarding the 1st horseman
"006:002 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."
In Revelation 6:4 -
"006:004 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

2nd horseman given pwer to take peace from the earth.

- but as far as the confirmation of the covenant - it being a peace treaty is not specifically stated.

I personally think it will be confirmation of the Abrahamic covenant and Israel's right to exist.
I have spent personal time with some well known individuals in the prophecy circle by God's grace and I will not drop names - that would be very prideful on my part.
My opportunity to meet them and speak with them was by His grace - nothing else, there are others who hold a different view that Mr. Lahaye.
I appreciate your position and answer, I am in no way trying to criticize your thoughts - only reason together.

DouginMI
 
Have any of you read Joel Rosenberg's book "Epicenter" which gives some insight how the maybe allowed to be built and Ezekiel 38-39, I think we see some interesting things soon.
 
Dear Mac,

I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the ENP. The only way to understand it is to understand its underlying "Barcelona Process." An Association Agreement with Israel was signed between Javier Solana and Shimon Peres in Brussels, Belgium on November 20, 1995, in the near wake of the Itzhak Rabin assassination on November 5, 1995. Two days later, November 22, 1995, Israel experienced the strongest earthquake ever in its history, 7.2 mw, epicentered at Eilat in the Gulf of Aqaba region. Heads rolled from Egyptian royal mummies undisturbed for thousands of years as a direct result of that quake. It is the only earthquake I have ever heard of that has been subjected to (unsuccessful) historical revision downwards. I believe the reason that earthquake news was in part suppressed was because it came to a region of the world important to three major world religions, only two days after Israel entered into a pact with the European Union.

All three religions: Jews, Christians and Moslems would have read something of significance of that quake coming immediately after that treaty signing. To be sure, they would have read DIFFERENT THINGS into it, but ALL would have read SOMETHING into it.

Reuters news stories the morning of the quake (11-22-95) stated that the quake had come in the wake of a political earthquake in the form of the Barcelona Conference which would be chaired exclusively by Javier Solana acting under a full power of attorney from the then 15 nation European Union and THE TEN NATION WESTERN EUROPEAN UNION (this is what IMHO was overlooked by biblical scholars) "a military federation." The goals were 3 fold: 1. BATTLE RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISM -- WORLDWIDE; 2. Favorable trading terms for region participants leading to a Mediterranean Free Trade Zone by 2010; and 3. Get the USA OUT OF THE MEDITERRANEAN and/or greatly reduce its presence there.

The USA, per those 11-22-1995 press accounts requested "participant status" but were granted (by Dr. Solana) "observer status only."

Thanks to knowing how to use the internet proficiently, I too had 'observer status," albeit the poor man's way.

Both Israel and the Palestinian Union slobbered all over Solana. Ehud Barak said to all gathered that "at long last, Israel has joined the European Club". . . "these are the benefits of belonging to the European Club." Yasser Arafat came very close to calling Solana the Prince of Peace, using language very, very similar."

Within a week after that earthquake, they tried to say it was only 6.2 mw, 1/100th of the magnitude of a 7.2 m.w. quake. I later (1999) pulled a reluctant admission from the director of an Israeli based earthquake study (set up as part of the "peace process" to study Jordan Valley rift phenonemon) that indeed the quake had been 7.2 mw and that "the various observers have measured it between 7.1 mw and 7.3 mw. The 7.3 mw observation came from the Ontario Earthquake Research Center. For those with my CD you have a copy of their chart as well as the joint University of Michigan/Ohio State University joint earthquake research center charts.

Solana achieved his treaty. He was given sole credit for the "diplomatic accomplishment."

I sent emails to my entire distribution list on November 28, 1995 saying "watch out for this guy."

Two days later, he was unanimously, dark horse candidate, to the utter amazement of the Spanish press who knew of his Marxist, anti-NATO stance for many years, named the NEW HEAD OF NATO.

There is so much more, but Mac, I urge you, do not go back to sleep on this one. Real thing or power hungry wannabe, the results can be equally deadly.

As Lord Acton once said, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

It appears that we have come very close as a global society to granting Javier Solana absolute power.

This could potentially corrupt a Mother Theresa or St. Francis of Assisi, or maybe even you or I, given such unbridled powers. Either that, or assuming we (or Solana) were completely altruistic, would inspire others who knew what to do with such powers away from us and in the hands of others more ruthless.

It is time we all woke up and smelled the coffee. I have composed this as a response, but think now that I just might post it as well as a new blogspot article.

Sincerely,

CONSTANCE E. CUMBEY
 
To Mac:

I've been reading with great interest everyone's opinions of the two witnesses. I have been watching and waiting to see what's going on concerning the temple, and it is intriguing to say the least.

I don't claim to be very gifted in interperting so I won't even try. However there is a great deal of situations that seem to be lining up.

I read the post that you provided a link for and I jus wanted to point out something. You made a statement earlier saying that the temple needed to be rebuilt before sacrifices could begin again. However, and I'll quote the article you provided:

Second, and more important, in the very next verse (Rev. 11:4), the ministry of the two witnesses is compared to the ministry of the two olive trees of Zech. 4:3, namely, Joshua the high priest and Zerubbabel the governor of the Jewish remnant, who returned from Babylon to re-establish legitimate worship in Jerusalem (Zech. 3:1 and 4:6). These leaders did not have to wait for the Temple to be rebuilt to begin sacrificing on the altar which they erected on the ruins of Solomon's Temple (cf. Ezra 3:2-3). By the same token, the two witnesses will not have to wait for the third temple to be built in order to begin
sacrificing on a divinely legitimate altar on the present ruins of the second temple. What they will need is supernatural protection to re-institute the sacrifices (cf. Dan. 9:27) in the presence of enormous, even global, opposition (cf. Rev. 11:10).


I bolded what I was curious about. If the people didn't wait for the temple to be rebuilt then, what is to say they couldn't erect some temporary building and begin sacrifices now while they start construction?
 
Doug- I took no offense to your response. I only offered the arguments that I have heard (such as Daniel 9:25 and Rev 6). Also, I really do believe that Lahaye's books have helped propelled all those ideas as "gospel".

My husband and I have studied this as well. He had been pre-trib up until about 10 years ago. Then someone challenged him. He spent several years looking and researching for an answer. We have settled into a pre-wrath view. So it seems that now we are always questioning popular theories (peace treaty, is it really 7 year trib, etc).

Thank you for your continued research and keep looking to the Bible for the answers.
 
Sapphire, you're right, I noted that. In another article, Jack Kelley even proposes that the Temple could be built at Shiloh and not necessarily on the Mount. I obviously don't have the answers and neither does anyone else. But consider the rest of Whitcomb's article. Are the Two Witnesses going to duke it out with the False Prophet (who strangely hasn’t turned up yet) etc? And where does Gog & Magog figure in all this? It's going to be an awfully busy 31/2 years! And shock, horror have we already used up a year of the 70th week? Did the week start in Jan 07? Does this mean that we have only 21/2 years to go for the AOD? And at what point is Javier going to knock on my door requiring worship? I’m tipping not anytime soon because an honest assessment of the situation is HE DOES NOT HAVE THAT SORT OF INFLUENCE YET. Were he to visit Canberra Australia and inform our PM of his worship aspirations, he would be politely told where to shove it.

So far we don’t have a Temple and majority Israel at the moment don’t want one. To suggest that that you can use an altar in the interim is fine but you still will eventually require a temple for the AOD. Note, though, that while there has been an attempt to sacrifice a heifer, so far it hasn’t happened. And what does any critically thinking person believe will happen if Jews perform a sacrifice on the Temple Mount today? I’m not going to belabour this point as I don’t want to turn Constance’s site into a battle ground but I really think we need a dose of reality here regarding the 70th week!

For a good critical study of the Gog & Magog scenario, take a look at Doug Berner’s book: The Silence is Broken! God Hooks Ezekiel’s Gog & Magog.

Constance, thanks for immortalising me. I am certainly not trying to disparage the work done by the regulars here and perhaps the ENP may figure in the future. However, in all good conscience, I have a problem with people running around saying the week has begun. Time will tell and I’m signing out on this subject in the interest of peace. Believe what you want.
 
Hi Dawn, well, - it is wonderful that we can reason together nas remember that iron shaprens iron.

Let us all keep looking to the Word for our insight, our hope nad His leading.
May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you and your family.

DouginMI
 
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