Thursday, May 25, 2006
Dealing with A Saint that ain't
VASSULA RYDEN -- DEALING WITH A "LIVING SAINT" THAT AIN'T
My dear friend, Liz Collins, left this world in late Spring, 2005. While she was living, she was one of my strongest supporters on New Age Movement issues. Liz and Bob Collins were devout Catholics and Liz was deeply concerned about New Age infiltration of the Roman Catholic Church. I probably could have written several more books in the time that Liz took me places to put out individual fires at local Catholic institutions. I was always afraid that I would end up being arrested as I accompanied Liz who would ask a seemingly naïve question of the New Age presenter and be put down as unschooled in theology. Of course, I would always get up thereafter and give them a sophisticated piece of my mind before we both left. I would feel bad about the approach, had not so many approached me in later years and thanked me for being there and saying what I did. "You said exactly what I needed to hear," said one woman who had been an enthusiastic devotee of the Matthew Fox/Thomas Stanks line before coming to see it for what it was -- a soul trap. Liz was a former Pan American Airlines hostess, was fluent in both English and German, and had a degree in home economics. She flew Pan American’s international skies in the 50’s before she and Bob married and raised their six beautiful children.
Liz expressed frequent concerns to me about an alleged new “saint,” an alleged Greek Orthodox, Vassula Ryden, a "former Sheraton Hotel model, former tennis champion of Bangladesh and fluent in four languages, one of which was Arabic. She claimed Jesus was frequently giving her direct messages.
Now I have to tell you that practicing law in the metropolitan Detroit area, there is no second language more useful than Arabic. The little I know, I speak VERY WELL and I can read and write a smattering of it. If I were to have a full-immersion experience, I’m sure I could be fully functional in it in very little time. It was a Jewish attorney who gave me the key to unlocking it. Elliot Perlman said to me, “the key to learning Arabic is its alphabet. Unlike English, it is pronounced exactly as written. There are only 28 letters in that alphabet and it is strictly phonetic.” I had a client, from Egypt, who knew no English. At that time (1990), I knew no Arabic. We both knew one extremely helpful French phrase, “qu’est-ce que c'est?” (What is that”.) Through that he introduced me to Arabic and I introduced him to English equivalents. The handy-dandy language tapes helped with a good share of the rest, as well as my various Arabic clients who were thrilled to help me discover their language which to my delight was arranged in logical clusters. I practiced it every chance I got, which was often given Detroit’s large Arabic population.
Now, about the time that I was practicing this and trying it out on my English speaking friends, including Liz and Bob Collins, Liz approached me with news that Orchard Lake Seminary was bringing Vassula Ryden to town. Liz and friend Tom McGlynn were concerned that there might be New Age aspects to her work. I was busy practicing law and didn’t want to take the time to look. Liz and Tom prepared a flyer based on their own studies and placed flyers on cars at Orchard Lake Seminary the night Vassula was speaking, also, as I recall sometime in the earlier 1990’s. Liz called me with the disturbing news that she had almost been arrested, but the organizers of Vassula’s talk had invited Liz to their Lathrup Village home to personally meet Vassula.
Liz Collins and Tom McGlynn naturally wanted me to be part of that expedition. I wasn’t so sure. For one thing, it was to happen on a Saturday – my day off – the day I tried to forget I had ever been an attorney and just take care of things at home – the day that has saved my sanity for the past 17 years. I finally, however, reluctantly agreed to go.
The day was a very cold and wet rainy April one. I met Liz and Tom at a now closed restaurant called Vassili’s. We had pre-meeting talks and took one car from there to the Vassula Ryden gathering. I was not happy about my day off being disturbed for anything short of the Second Coming itself. I griped openly, “Vassula Ryden says she can speak Arabic. I’ve got a good notion to speak to her in Arabic. If she doesn’t understand me, you don’t have to worry about the authenticity of her spirituality – she’s a garden variety fraud!”
We walked into the lovely and spacious Lathrup Village home. The “Saint” was wearing slacks and had straight long light brown hair. She professionally shook hands with all who entered in a reception line type setting. Liz shook her hand and waited for me. Tom McGlynn then shook her hand and waited for me. It was my turn. I used the Arabic phrase for “I’m very pleased to meet you.” Immediately, Vassula Ryden said, “what language is that?” I did an aside to Tom and Liz and said, “she doesn’t know what language I’m speaking.” I used increasingly common phrases in any Arabic dialect (trust me, we have them all in this metropolitan Detroit region). Finally, I said one of the most common of all which transliterates something like “Sabbah al’hier” (good morning). Vassula said to me, “you’re driving me crazy – what language is that?”
I said, “You don’t know.” “No,” she replied. “Arabic,” I said.
A clearly taken by surprise Vassula Ryden said, “my friend over there speaks Arabic. She can tell me if you’re speaking Arabic or not.” I said to her, "well, I thought from all your advance publicity that you'd be able to tell me that for yourself." She repeated, "my friend speaks Arabic, she can tell me if you're speaking Arabic or not. I dutifully went to her friend who was standing very near by and undoubtedly heard our conversation. As I recall her name may have been called “Mrs. Mansour.” I greeted her and then introduced myself in Arabic, told her where I was from, what my occupation was and where I was currently living.” She turned to Vassula and said, “yes, she is speaking Arabic.”
I went into the living room where her faithful were gathered along with us three skeptics. A sweet old priest who was familiar with my work against the New Age Movement greeted me and said he had gotten his sister out of the New Age Movement, thanks in part to my books and thanks in part to the writings of Vassula Ryden.” I said to him in the least abruptful way I could, “the New Age Movement can take many forms.” I then asked Vassula Ryden, “what United Nations agency employs your husband?” She said, “Are you interrogating me?” I said, “I guess you could say that.” She said, “Well, I’m not going to tell you.” I said, “yes, and you speak fluent Arabic too.” She said, “I couldn’t understand your dialect.” I told her I was speaking the dialect she claimed to know, pure Egyptian Arabic.
I denounced her as a fraud and left. The story of the confrontation quickly made the local circuits. My friends claim I was mumbling as I left (not sure I remember), “I wonder why God let me learn Arabic so easily – I had so much trouble with college French.”
A few years later I had the privilege (1994) of meeting author E. Michael Jones. He had interestingly noted the problems with Vassula Ryden in his book on Medjujorge claimed apparitions. He noted the obvious theological errors and said that Mrs. Mansour, who may well have been the same lady I earlier met in Lathrup Village, said that the errors may have existed because Arabic was Vassula Ryden’s primary language and “that perhaps in the transliteration . . .” I told E. Michael Jones what I had learned – from my observation, Vassula Ryden did not know as much as a word of Arabic.
Liz’ husband, Bob Collins, said, “you should have challenged her to a game of tennis, too” (Referring to her claims that she was a former tennis champion for the Nation of Bangladesh.)
I guess being a saint and selling lots of books to the faithful is good retirement work for aging Sheraton Hotel models. Frankly, I would invest my heavenly aspiration resources elsewhere than in Vassula Ryden books. I looked at her website this morning and saw that she claims the present pope is rethinking the position he took on her when he headed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. He was right the first time and I hope he stands firm! Oh, and if you are curious about this lady, be sure to google her and her website can be located by pressing on the headline above.
My dear friend, Liz Collins, left this world in late Spring, 2005. While she was living, she was one of my strongest supporters on New Age Movement issues. Liz and Bob Collins were devout Catholics and Liz was deeply concerned about New Age infiltration of the Roman Catholic Church. I probably could have written several more books in the time that Liz took me places to put out individual fires at local Catholic institutions. I was always afraid that I would end up being arrested as I accompanied Liz who would ask a seemingly naïve question of the New Age presenter and be put down as unschooled in theology. Of course, I would always get up thereafter and give them a sophisticated piece of my mind before we both left. I would feel bad about the approach, had not so many approached me in later years and thanked me for being there and saying what I did. "You said exactly what I needed to hear," said one woman who had been an enthusiastic devotee of the Matthew Fox/Thomas Stanks line before coming to see it for what it was -- a soul trap. Liz was a former Pan American Airlines hostess, was fluent in both English and German, and had a degree in home economics. She flew Pan American’s international skies in the 50’s before she and Bob married and raised their six beautiful children.
Liz expressed frequent concerns to me about an alleged new “saint,” an alleged Greek Orthodox, Vassula Ryden, a "former Sheraton Hotel model, former tennis champion of Bangladesh and fluent in four languages, one of which was Arabic. She claimed Jesus was frequently giving her direct messages.
Now I have to tell you that practicing law in the metropolitan Detroit area, there is no second language more useful than Arabic. The little I know, I speak VERY WELL and I can read and write a smattering of it. If I were to have a full-immersion experience, I’m sure I could be fully functional in it in very little time. It was a Jewish attorney who gave me the key to unlocking it. Elliot Perlman said to me, “the key to learning Arabic is its alphabet. Unlike English, it is pronounced exactly as written. There are only 28 letters in that alphabet and it is strictly phonetic.” I had a client, from Egypt, who knew no English. At that time (1990), I knew no Arabic. We both knew one extremely helpful French phrase, “qu’est-ce que c'est?” (What is that”.) Through that he introduced me to Arabic and I introduced him to English equivalents. The handy-dandy language tapes helped with a good share of the rest, as well as my various Arabic clients who were thrilled to help me discover their language which to my delight was arranged in logical clusters. I practiced it every chance I got, which was often given Detroit’s large Arabic population.
Now, about the time that I was practicing this and trying it out on my English speaking friends, including Liz and Bob Collins, Liz approached me with news that Orchard Lake Seminary was bringing Vassula Ryden to town. Liz and friend Tom McGlynn were concerned that there might be New Age aspects to her work. I was busy practicing law and didn’t want to take the time to look. Liz and Tom prepared a flyer based on their own studies and placed flyers on cars at Orchard Lake Seminary the night Vassula was speaking, also, as I recall sometime in the earlier 1990’s. Liz called me with the disturbing news that she had almost been arrested, but the organizers of Vassula’s talk had invited Liz to their Lathrup Village home to personally meet Vassula.
Liz Collins and Tom McGlynn naturally wanted me to be part of that expedition. I wasn’t so sure. For one thing, it was to happen on a Saturday – my day off – the day I tried to forget I had ever been an attorney and just take care of things at home – the day that has saved my sanity for the past 17 years. I finally, however, reluctantly agreed to go.
The day was a very cold and wet rainy April one. I met Liz and Tom at a now closed restaurant called Vassili’s. We had pre-meeting talks and took one car from there to the Vassula Ryden gathering. I was not happy about my day off being disturbed for anything short of the Second Coming itself. I griped openly, “Vassula Ryden says she can speak Arabic. I’ve got a good notion to speak to her in Arabic. If she doesn’t understand me, you don’t have to worry about the authenticity of her spirituality – she’s a garden variety fraud!”
We walked into the lovely and spacious Lathrup Village home. The “Saint” was wearing slacks and had straight long light brown hair. She professionally shook hands with all who entered in a reception line type setting. Liz shook her hand and waited for me. Tom McGlynn then shook her hand and waited for me. It was my turn. I used the Arabic phrase for “I’m very pleased to meet you.” Immediately, Vassula Ryden said, “what language is that?” I did an aside to Tom and Liz and said, “she doesn’t know what language I’m speaking.” I used increasingly common phrases in any Arabic dialect (trust me, we have them all in this metropolitan Detroit region). Finally, I said one of the most common of all which transliterates something like “Sabbah al’hier” (good morning). Vassula said to me, “you’re driving me crazy – what language is that?”
I said, “You don’t know.” “No,” she replied. “Arabic,” I said.
A clearly taken by surprise Vassula Ryden said, “my friend over there speaks Arabic. She can tell me if you’re speaking Arabic or not.” I said to her, "well, I thought from all your advance publicity that you'd be able to tell me that for yourself." She repeated, "my friend speaks Arabic, she can tell me if you're speaking Arabic or not. I dutifully went to her friend who was standing very near by and undoubtedly heard our conversation. As I recall her name may have been called “Mrs. Mansour.” I greeted her and then introduced myself in Arabic, told her where I was from, what my occupation was and where I was currently living.” She turned to Vassula and said, “yes, she is speaking Arabic.”
I went into the living room where her faithful were gathered along with us three skeptics. A sweet old priest who was familiar with my work against the New Age Movement greeted me and said he had gotten his sister out of the New Age Movement, thanks in part to my books and thanks in part to the writings of Vassula Ryden.” I said to him in the least abruptful way I could, “the New Age Movement can take many forms.” I then asked Vassula Ryden, “what United Nations agency employs your husband?” She said, “Are you interrogating me?” I said, “I guess you could say that.” She said, “Well, I’m not going to tell you.” I said, “yes, and you speak fluent Arabic too.” She said, “I couldn’t understand your dialect.” I told her I was speaking the dialect she claimed to know, pure Egyptian Arabic.
I denounced her as a fraud and left. The story of the confrontation quickly made the local circuits. My friends claim I was mumbling as I left (not sure I remember), “I wonder why God let me learn Arabic so easily – I had so much trouble with college French.”
A few years later I had the privilege (1994) of meeting author E. Michael Jones. He had interestingly noted the problems with Vassula Ryden in his book on Medjujorge claimed apparitions. He noted the obvious theological errors and said that Mrs. Mansour, who may well have been the same lady I earlier met in Lathrup Village, said that the errors may have existed because Arabic was Vassula Ryden’s primary language and “that perhaps in the transliteration . . .” I told E. Michael Jones what I had learned – from my observation, Vassula Ryden did not know as much as a word of Arabic.
Liz’ husband, Bob Collins, said, “you should have challenged her to a game of tennis, too” (Referring to her claims that she was a former tennis champion for the Nation of Bangladesh.)
I guess being a saint and selling lots of books to the faithful is good retirement work for aging Sheraton Hotel models. Frankly, I would invest my heavenly aspiration resources elsewhere than in Vassula Ryden books. I looked at her website this morning and saw that she claims the present pope is rethinking the position he took on her when he headed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. He was right the first time and I hope he stands firm! Oh, and if you are curious about this lady, be sure to google her and her website can be located by pressing on the headline above.
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The motivation as I see it was probably M-O-N-E-Y -- for herself and for her sponsors, the Mansours. And, I forgot to mention, in that same conversation, I asked her if she had the opportunity to read the Bible and she told me that Jesus told her not to read it. I doubt very much that Jesus would say that, but the lead player on the other team would enthusiastically support that non-reading of Scripture~!
constance can you post youe e-mail address please i have cumbey@yahoo.com but my letter to you was returned not correct address
# posted by 
: 10:33 PM
: 10:33 PM
constance can you post your e-mail address please i have cumbey@yahoo.com but my letter to you was returned not correct address thank you
# posted by : 10:35 PM
: 10:35 PM
Another motive. She looked over the list of saints and saw there wasn't a Saint Hottie. She probably thought she could fill that role.
# posted by : 11:07 PM
: 11:07 PM
My email address is cumbey@yahoo.com. That should have worked. My box is probably fuller than it should be and I'll check that. Sorry!
Speaking of syncretism, New Age, and New World Religion, check out the interreligious section of Vassula Ryden's website: Here are choice entries:
The Peace Gold Award 2003
Vassula receives the "Atisha Dipankar & Visuddhananda Peace Gold Award" on Feb. 26th, 2003 in Bangladesh
Inter-Religious Speech by Vassula
Delivered at the Bouddha Kristi Prachar Sangha at Dharmarjika (Buddhist Monastery) on February 23, 2003
Vassula in Bangladesh, 21-25 May 2002
An account of this 4-day trip where Vassula speaks to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Christians
Meeting in Benin, Africa with Voodoo Chiefs
Heads of various traditions, mainly voodoo, invited to hear Vassula speak at this meeting
Meeting at a Buddhist Temple in Hiroshima
An account of this meeting on Aug. 4, 1999
Recognizably Jewish
Sister Seraphim, a hermit nun living in Holywell, Wales, UK, looks at 'True Life in God' on the basis of her rabbinical studies to which she has been drawn for many years
I suppose she will say she went to all these places to "evangelize" -- but then again with her claims that Jesus told her not to read the Bible ...
The Peace Gold Award 2003
Vassula receives the "Atisha Dipankar & Visuddhananda Peace Gold Award" on Feb. 26th, 2003 in Bangladesh
Inter-Religious Speech by Vassula
Delivered at the Bouddha Kristi Prachar Sangha at Dharmarjika (Buddhist Monastery) on February 23, 2003
Vassula in Bangladesh, 21-25 May 2002
An account of this 4-day trip where Vassula speaks to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Christians
Meeting in Benin, Africa with Voodoo Chiefs
Heads of various traditions, mainly voodoo, invited to hear Vassula speak at this meeting
Meeting at a Buddhist Temple in Hiroshima
An account of this meeting on Aug. 4, 1999
Recognizably Jewish
Sister Seraphim, a hermit nun living in Holywell, Wales, UK, looks at 'True Life in God' on the basis of her rabbinical studies to which she has been drawn for many years
I suppose she will say she went to all these places to "evangelize" -- but then again with her claims that Jesus told her not to read the Bible ...
Checking around various websites, Mary seems to have a pretty heavy schedule of appearances.
http://focusonjerusalem.com/maryapparitions.html
http://www.apparitions.org/#disapproval
Vassula seems to be on the disapproved list.
http://listserv.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9504b&L=apar-l&D=1&T=0&P=6884
Check out the evaluation of her claims here:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/apparitions/index.htm
It is quite long and detailed, starting with her belief that she married Jesus, though she calls him father.
Another list:
http://members.aol.com/UticaCW/Mar-vis.html
http://www.arulnathan.com/mother.html
Another list, this time with a rating system.
I'm not picking on Catholics. I'm sure there is much overlap in these lists. It just that the lists are so long that after a while there is nothing special in another apparition.
http://focusonjerusalem.com/maryapparitions.html
http://www.apparitions.org/#disapproval
Vassula seems to be on the disapproved list.
http://listserv.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9504b&L=apar-l&D=1&T=0&P=6884
Check out the evaluation of her claims here:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/apparitions/index.htm
It is quite long and detailed, starting with her belief that she married Jesus, though she calls him father.
Another list:
http://members.aol.com/UticaCW/Mar-vis.html
http://www.arulnathan.com/mother.html
Another list, this time with a rating system.
I'm not picking on Catholics. I'm sure there is much overlap in these lists. It just that the lists are so long that after a while there is nothing special in another apparition.
# posted by : 12:51 AM
: 12:51 AM
If indeed she had ANY APPARITION. She also falsely claimed to know Arabic. She may be a talented fiction writer who used Course in Miracles or something similar as a template. She claims to take nothing from her writings or travels. I'm sorry, I don't believe it -- how are her travels financed?
Vassula married Jesus? I wonder what Baigent and Dan Brown will make of that one?
# posted by : 1:15 AM
: 1:15 AM
This stinks of a cult following. I put her name and the word "cult" in a search engine and one of the links I found is
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/13228/
L-A--Cathedral-Disinvites-Christian-Unity-Event
which is current as of January. It says the Vatican's position hasn't changed.
Almost all of the endorsements of her works are given with initials and not full names. They remind me of scam artist testimonials as in "John McAffie's ointment cured me of cancer...M.C. Toronto."
Almost all of the testimonials are dated in the 1990s which suggests that was the heyday of her cult.
Clare Monsour, according to this site, has a history of involvement with other cults.
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/ClaireMonsour.htm
Under Eastern Mysticism books at
http://www.rbookshop.com you will find one of her books.
Do the cult search mentioned above. It contains a lot of good information on the cult aspects of that group. As Constance noted earlier, there is a lot of money to be made on the lecture circuit, the selling of books, and donations to the cult leader as well as money to be made by towns where "apparitions" have taken place.
Like a few thousand others, Vassula is probably doing channeling as other New Age people have done. Who was it that said "There's a sucker born every minute?"
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/13228/
L-A--Cathedral-Disinvites-Christian-Unity-Event
which is current as of January. It says the Vatican's position hasn't changed.
Almost all of the endorsements of her works are given with initials and not full names. They remind me of scam artist testimonials as in "John McAffie's ointment cured me of cancer...M.C. Toronto."
Almost all of the testimonials are dated in the 1990s which suggests that was the heyday of her cult.
Clare Monsour, according to this site, has a history of involvement with other cults.
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/ClaireMonsour.htm
Under Eastern Mysticism books at
http://www.rbookshop.com you will find one of her books.
Do the cult search mentioned above. It contains a lot of good information on the cult aspects of that group. As Constance noted earlier, there is a lot of money to be made on the lecture circuit, the selling of books, and donations to the cult leader as well as money to be made by towns where "apparitions" have taken place.
Like a few thousand others, Vassula is probably doing channeling as other New Age people have done. Who was it that said "There's a sucker born every minute?"
# posted by : 10:20 AM
: 10:20 AM
While searching for more information, I came across this website
http://amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook
/2006/01/if_hed_just_rea.html#comments
The 47 comments are very informative regarding the Pope's comments on the woman.
http://amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook
/2006/01/if_hed_just_rea.html#comments
The 47 comments are very informative regarding the Pope's comments on the woman.
# posted by : 10:56 AM
: 10:56 AM
Constance,
I must be getting jaded. I find myself glancing at your testimony on Vassula Ryden throught the day when I feel like laughing.
RichInMedford
I must be getting jaded. I find myself glancing at your testimony on Vassula Ryden throught the day when I feel like laughing.
RichInMedford
# posted by : 11:58 AM
: 11:58 AM
It is good for laughs, isn't it. One must keep one's sense of humor to keep one's sanity when looking at this material. On the other hand, in Ezekiel, the ones God spared from the punishment of Israel for idolatry were those sighing and mourning over the abominations -- not those who were amusedly laughing and saying, "isn't that just a stitch." For that reason we pray daily as part of The Lord's Prayer, "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil"
I'm suspicious of anyone claiming to hear directly from the Lord. Usually, prophets don't get shiny awards from dignitaries. They get the axe.
Sorry you wasted a good Saturday, Constance. Plant some flowers this weekend and relax. I'll seeya at Wojo's.
Sorry you wasted a good Saturday, Constance. Plant some flowers this weekend and relax. I'll seeya at Wojo's.
I agree Constance, this one for some reason reminds me of one of those corny "blond" jokes. What isn't funny is the many souls, not to mention her own, that Vassula leads astray.
RichInMedford
RichInMedford
# posted by : 1:38 PM
: 1:38 PM
One commentator gave a link to a site about somebody named MONSOUR. The people involved with Vassula Ryden were, to my knowledge, named Claire and Antoine MANSOUR.
Some problems with Vassula from a Catholic perspective may be found at this site:
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/cafarus/tligchurchposition.htm#Archdiocese
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/cafarus/tligchurchposition.htm#Archdiocese
I did actually take a peek at her web site. I didn't have time to read through all her "revelations" on love. The Bible says that Satan often disguises himself as an angel of light. I think it's also true he disguises himself as an angel of love. Christians are taught about love and we certainly are familiar with the II Corinthians verse on love. However, this love comes from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what gave the Church it's birth. I noticed the Holy Spirit wasn't mentioned at all by Vassula Ryden, but I only glanced at the home page.
Interestingly, Rick Warren also talks about love in the "Purpose-Driven Life" and "Better Together" (this book goes along with the 40 Days of Community). The Holy Spirit is also quite absent from Warren's love discussion. In "Better Together" he uses the famous II Corinthians passage to remind us Christians we need to be loving. Well, duh! Of course, Warren has the formula to make us more loving.
Like Vassula Ryden, "God" spoke to Rick Warren, which was his initial inspiration to start his ministry at Saddleback Church and his Purpose-Driven (a trademark name)campaigns. To Warren's credit "God" didn't tell him not to read the Bible. Instead he reads every English version available. He even encourages people to memorize scripture, which most Christians can agree with. However, people don't have to struggle with trying to understand what the scriptures say (which is hard to do when you bounce from one version to the next). Warren provides an outline and gives all the answers, so he does all the thinking for you. How nice. Oddly, the King James Version is always his least quoted version. Rick Warren's discussions on love sure sound similar to Vassula Ryden's. Hmmm!
I found an interesting site that explains why people like me have felt quite uneasy during Rick Warren's original 40 Days of Purpose and his sequel, 40 Days of Community. Check it out!
http://www.scripturevisuals.org/
40dayscloser.html
Interestingly, Rick Warren also talks about love in the "Purpose-Driven Life" and "Better Together" (this book goes along with the 40 Days of Community). The Holy Spirit is also quite absent from Warren's love discussion. In "Better Together" he uses the famous II Corinthians passage to remind us Christians we need to be loving. Well, duh! Of course, Warren has the formula to make us more loving.
Like Vassula Ryden, "God" spoke to Rick Warren, which was his initial inspiration to start his ministry at Saddleback Church and his Purpose-Driven (a trademark name)campaigns. To Warren's credit "God" didn't tell him not to read the Bible. Instead he reads every English version available. He even encourages people to memorize scripture, which most Christians can agree with. However, people don't have to struggle with trying to understand what the scriptures say (which is hard to do when you bounce from one version to the next). Warren provides an outline and gives all the answers, so he does all the thinking for you. How nice. Oddly, the King James Version is always his least quoted version. Rick Warren's discussions on love sure sound similar to Vassula Ryden's. Hmmm!
I found an interesting site that explains why people like me have felt quite uneasy during Rick Warren's original 40 Days of Purpose and his sequel, 40 Days of Community. Check it out!
http://www.scripturevisuals.org/
40dayscloser.html
The link I posted used the spelling Monsour.
http://www.unitypublishing.com/
Apparitions/ClaireMonsour.htm
However, it is the same person as Unity Publishing is a Catholic press that seeks to expose charlatans running under the Catholic banner. Interesting reading there. Here is another article on the topic, Mansour spelling, same publisher.
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/Vassula.html
http://www.unitypublishing.com/
Apparitions/ClaireMonsour.htm
However, it is the same person as Unity Publishing is a Catholic press that seeks to expose charlatans running under the Catholic banner. Interesting reading there. Here is another article on the topic, Mansour spelling, same publisher.
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/Vassula.html
# posted by : 2:20 PM
: 2:20 PM
EU charter 'won't be revived yet'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/
europe/5023788.stm
From article “Neoliberal Globalisation and the Militarization of the European Union” by Jurgen Wagner
“Until 2009, all member countries have to approve the draft. But in some countries – especially in Ireland and Great Britain – where a national referendum has to accept the constitution, it is far from certain that the population will do so.
“SO WE STILL HAVE 5 YEARS LEFT TO FIGHT AGAINST IT!”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/
europe/5023788.stm
From article “Neoliberal Globalisation and the Militarization of the European Union” by Jurgen Wagner
“Until 2009, all member countries have to approve the draft. But in some countries – especially in Ireland and Great Britain – where a national referendum has to accept the constitution, it is far from certain that the population will do so.
“SO WE STILL HAVE 5 YEARS LEFT TO FIGHT AGAINST IT!”
# posted by : 3:46 PM
: 3:46 PM
Just a side piece of information that I hadn't come across before. Rick Salbato did the exposes on Vassula at Unity Publishing. I wanted to see who he was and found this interview done with him last year.
http://www.hereditasmagazine.com/easter_2005/
wilderness.html
Re wrote this regarding Malachi Martin.
Interviewer: "I corresponded with noted author and priest Malachi Martin in 1998. He said that the Evil One is assaulting the Church, but he won't win. Who was Fr. Martin, and what was your connection with him? Were there suspicious circumstances regarding his death?
Rick: I also corresponded with Malachi Martin a great deal in the last years of his life. We agreed on some things and on some things we did not. However, when he died, (all his close friends feel he was killed and so do I), people tried to sabotage his web site and have him say things that he never said. They intimidated his webmaster in an attempt to take over the site, so I bought it and kept it exactly as he left it, without any changes. The book he was writing at the time was stolen."
Malachi Martin's last published book was fiction based on revealing the underside of the Catholic Church. He used fictional names but anyone could recognize the real person. The book was called Windswept House. His next book was to be a full expose.
Everyone should realize that all religious groups have been infiltrated by New Age/pagan/occult thinking. It's only natural that Jews trust Jews, Catholics trust other Catholics, Baptists trust other Baptists and so on. The New Agers use that trust against us.
http://www.hereditasmagazine.com/easter_2005/
wilderness.html
Re wrote this regarding Malachi Martin.
Interviewer: "I corresponded with noted author and priest Malachi Martin in 1998. He said that the Evil One is assaulting the Church, but he won't win. Who was Fr. Martin, and what was your connection with him? Were there suspicious circumstances regarding his death?
Rick: I also corresponded with Malachi Martin a great deal in the last years of his life. We agreed on some things and on some things we did not. However, when he died, (all his close friends feel he was killed and so do I), people tried to sabotage his web site and have him say things that he never said. They intimidated his webmaster in an attempt to take over the site, so I bought it and kept it exactly as he left it, without any changes. The book he was writing at the time was stolen."
Malachi Martin's last published book was fiction based on revealing the underside of the Catholic Church. He used fictional names but anyone could recognize the real person. The book was called Windswept House. His next book was to be a full expose.
Everyone should realize that all religious groups have been infiltrated by New Age/pagan/occult thinking. It's only natural that Jews trust Jews, Catholics trust other Catholics, Baptists trust other Baptists and so on. The New Agers use that trust against us.
# posted by : 3:54 PM
: 3:54 PM
This scenario reminds me of the Pre-Left Behind books that came out after the final book in the series. It introduced Iv Ivins and others and it has an errie similarity to this Ryden and Mansour... Keep up the great work Constance. If it werent for you I would have no idea just HOW BAD the new age movement really is.
# posted by : 12:58 PM
: 12:58 PM
The comments section here is used to also give additional information on the changes taking place which are bringing New Age thinking into the culture.
The International Baccaloriate Organization program is not being brought into the Crete-Monee, Illinois school district because there is such a surplus of brilliant students. On the contrary, for five years the school didn't meet the standards set by the No Student Left Behind program, i.e., slow learners.
Looking over a list of the schools were IBO curriculum has been brought into schools in Illinois (you can look up your state or country's involvement), it appears that this program has gone into ultra-liberal schools and disadvantaged schools. Parents of children in the latter schools are more easily talked into experimental programs because they probably have no idea of what is happening on the international level of the New Age movement.
Anyway, take a look at the credentials of the teachers being used to set up the program at Crete-Monee.
http://www.cm201u.org/documents/
MagnetSchoolParentNightBrochure.pdf
Look at the favorite books. This is not high level academia.
I would hope anyone reading this and interested in the spread of the New Age take time to see how it is developing at the education level by doing some searches.
The International Baccaloriate Organization program is not being brought into the Crete-Monee, Illinois school district because there is such a surplus of brilliant students. On the contrary, for five years the school didn't meet the standards set by the No Student Left Behind program, i.e., slow learners.
Looking over a list of the schools were IBO curriculum has been brought into schools in Illinois (you can look up your state or country's involvement), it appears that this program has gone into ultra-liberal schools and disadvantaged schools. Parents of children in the latter schools are more easily talked into experimental programs because they probably have no idea of what is happening on the international level of the New Age movement.
Anyway, take a look at the credentials of the teachers being used to set up the program at Crete-Monee.
http://www.cm201u.org/documents/
MagnetSchoolParentNightBrochure.pdf
Look at the favorite books. This is not high level academia.
I would hope anyone reading this and interested in the spread of the New Age take time to see how it is developing at the education level by doing some searches.
# posted by : 7:37 AM
: 7:37 AM
I received this comment from a Los Angeles area friend. If anyone knows the name of the author or the name of the book, I would hope they would post it here.
"Don't know author's name or of his new book but it's about the U.S. Dept of Commerce, I think he said Department of Commerce SSP@AOL.gov, something like that. Heard him on talk radio. Seems there are several agreements, meetings, whatever, going on below the radar so the subject won't attract attention before it's well-formed re creating a Nafta expanded amalgamation of Canada, the U.S. and Mexico.It would have similar currency to eurodollars, a court that would supercede the U.S. Supreme Court, etc.It would happen within 20 years.
It would reflect the shared vision of Bush and VIncente and I don['t know who in Canada. It would certainly explain Bush's recalcitrant attitude toward illegal immigration since if that's his long-range vision he wouldn't like do much about tightening our borders if they were planned to become almost invisible.And Bush certainly does seem inclined in that direction from all appearances."
I think we are on the same track as European countries are, increasing involvement in the European Union in spite of continuous problems that are upsetting countries' economies and culture.
"Don't know author's name or of his new book but it's about the U.S. Dept of Commerce, I think he said Department of Commerce SSP@AOL.gov, something like that. Heard him on talk radio. Seems there are several agreements, meetings, whatever, going on below the radar so the subject won't attract attention before it's well-formed re creating a Nafta expanded amalgamation of Canada, the U.S. and Mexico.It would have similar currency to eurodollars, a court that would supercede the U.S. Supreme Court, etc.It would happen within 20 years.
It would reflect the shared vision of Bush and VIncente and I don['t know who in Canada. It would certainly explain Bush's recalcitrant attitude toward illegal immigration since if that's his long-range vision he wouldn't like do much about tightening our borders if they were planned to become almost invisible.And Bush certainly does seem inclined in that direction from all appearances."
I think we are on the same track as European countries are, increasing involvement in the European Union in spite of continuous problems that are upsetting countries' economies and culture.
# posted by : 7:51 AM
: 7:51 AM
I was on a mailing list from a very insightful minister who worked in New York. I never contacted him to tell him what I learned from his newsletter as it took a long time for the message to penetrate my brain on a practical level, not just on a knowing level.
He said that some people were given difficult lives to live because they were at the college level of moral development and so their lessons were harder. Those who are to learn college level moral understanding are given harder hurdles to overcome. Some pass the tests. Some fail. Just as in the universities in our secular culture. This understanding helped me to overcome jealousy of those who have been given a much better life than I have had to live. Everyone's starting pattern is in God's hand.
So what does this have to do with the New Age movement? I see the New Age ramifications as major temptations to ignore basic morality we are to implement.
Read these two stories, one sent to me by a friend. The first story talk about how abortions are being performed in the UK on less than perfect babies.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=388114&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id
=1770&ct=5&expand=true#StartComments
The second story is about an extreme case of someone who was not aborted.
http://www.lifewithoutlimbs.org/
There are other websites on this man. The challenge his parents faced is overwhelming. Because they faced it, many others have been given inspiration to to face their problems.
Not every case leads to such spectacular results. Many times parents face overwhelming problems in dealing with their children who are not perfect specimins by society's standards. But we never will know where these difficult cases have inspired others to make it and improve on the human condition.
I can only hope that those who read this will grow morally, not something that will happen if they buy into the New Age system of one world religion and one world government.
He said that some people were given difficult lives to live because they were at the college level of moral development and so their lessons were harder. Those who are to learn college level moral understanding are given harder hurdles to overcome. Some pass the tests. Some fail. Just as in the universities in our secular culture. This understanding helped me to overcome jealousy of those who have been given a much better life than I have had to live. Everyone's starting pattern is in God's hand.
So what does this have to do with the New Age movement? I see the New Age ramifications as major temptations to ignore basic morality we are to implement.
Read these two stories, one sent to me by a friend. The first story talk about how abortions are being performed in the UK on less than perfect babies.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=388114&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id
=1770&ct=5&expand=true#StartComments
The second story is about an extreme case of someone who was not aborted.
http://www.lifewithoutlimbs.org/
There are other websites on this man. The challenge his parents faced is overwhelming. Because they faced it, many others have been given inspiration to to face their problems.
Not every case leads to such spectacular results. Many times parents face overwhelming problems in dealing with their children who are not perfect specimins by society's standards. But we never will know where these difficult cases have inspired others to make it and improve on the human condition.
I can only hope that those who read this will grow morally, not something that will happen if they buy into the New Age system of one world religion and one world government.
# posted by : 2:08 PM
: 2:08 PM
A problem that I see is that those who start understanding what is gooing on regarding the New Age movement blame others for the changes. They never look to themselves to see what role is they play.
# posted by : 2:55 PM
: 2:55 PM
Those following New Age thinking might want to take a look at the new climate change post over at eureferendum.blogspot.com.
If you haven't checked out information on the International Baccalaureate Organization program for schools, you should. ibo.org
"Founded in 1968, we currently work with 1,827 schools in 124 countries to develop and offer three challenging programmes to more than 200,000 students aged 3 to 19 years."
Putting in "International Baccalaureate Organization" and "New Age" bring up many articles on the topic. One is
http://www.therant.us/staff/nsalvato/
how_secular_is_new_age_education.htm
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/IBO.htm
is pretty clear on the New Age connection even though I don't endorse all of the author's other writings.
If you haven't checked out information on the International Baccalaureate Organization program for schools, you should. ibo.org
"Founded in 1968, we currently work with 1,827 schools in 124 countries to develop and offer three challenging programmes to more than 200,000 students aged 3 to 19 years."
Putting in "International Baccalaureate Organization" and "New Age" bring up many articles on the topic. One is
http://www.therant.us/staff/nsalvato/
how_secular_is_new_age_education.htm
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/IBO.htm
is pretty clear on the New Age connection even though I don't endorse all of the author's other writings.
# posted by : 10:19 AM
: 10:19 AM
Last night I was browsing through Javier Solana's web page. I noticed that the EU is playing a central role in negotiations between Iran and the U.S., if anything does take place. So far Russia and China say they are on board for U.N. sanctions against Iran. It'll be interesting what kinds of sanctions Russia and China would be willing to support. And the EU is right there in the middle of all this.
David, that's interesting because not to long ago, both China and Russia have opposed UN security council sanctions. The sudden change is interesting. As I read news articles from publications within those nations, I've not been able to determine Javier Solana's position. It seems to change wich each audience to whom he is speaking.
RichInMedford
RichInMedford
# posted by : 9:18 AM
: 9:18 AM
Dear Rich,
Now you're catching on! Javier Solana's genius is convincing everybody he is their BEST FRIEND. If he's talking to the EU countries, he is their shield and defense against the wicked USA. If he's talking to George Bush and Condoleezza Rice, he's "our European ally." If he's talking to Israel, he's their friend. If he's talking to the Arabs, he's their best friend. That is precisely the danger -- you can't really know where he's coming from, except that he appears to be 'waxing great against the East (Russia, Balkans), against the South (African, Mediterranean countries), and against 'the Pleasant Land.' (Israel)
Now you're catching on! Javier Solana's genius is convincing everybody he is their BEST FRIEND. If he's talking to the EU countries, he is their shield and defense against the wicked USA. If he's talking to George Bush and Condoleezza Rice, he's "our European ally." If he's talking to Israel, he's their friend. If he's talking to the Arabs, he's their best friend. That is precisely the danger -- you can't really know where he's coming from, except that he appears to be 'waxing great against the East (Russia, Balkans), against the South (African, Mediterranean countries), and against 'the Pleasant Land.' (Israel)
The Herescope blog site has had some very interesting reviews of Rick Warren and his political ambitions, especially May 30th and 31st postings. I haven't finished reading all of it, but I'm intrigued. Rick Warren is another who is a friend to everybody. At least a marketing genius.
Yes, the Herescope blog is very valuable. I have a link to it as well as Herb Peter's Fulfilledprophecy.com. Both are very worthy of daily visits.
Looking at Vassula's interreligious section, its looking to me like she's about fostering the New World religion!
# posted by : 3:36 PM
: 3:36 PM
You need to read the messages because all that you are saying is calumny and outright LIES regarding Vassula, you never even met Mrs. Mansour? I have no idea where you go that idea! IN one of your books you lamented that people lied about you, well Mrs. Constance your doing the same thing regarding Vassula and the messages of True Life in God. She hasn't made a dime off of this, not one penny!!! Quite the lies!
# posted by : 2:55 PM
: 2:55 PM
Quote from TLIG:
"come, pray, fast, read My Word, receive Me in Holy Communion, pray the Rosary, adore Me" (TLIG aug. 24, 1989) read My Word, means read Scriptures! So, Jesus NEVER told Vassula not to read the Bible, He told her TO Read Scripture Daily!!
"I tell you solemnly, that I desire prayers coming from the heart; I desire you to pray for all the bishops and priests, I desire you to listen to all the teachings of those who represent Me; I desire you to fast and do penitence; I desire you to receive My Holy Eucharist as often as you can; I desire you to go to Confession at least once a month; I desire you to read daily a part out of Scriptures, I desire you to repair for others by sacrificing, I desire them to pray the Rosary and if possible all three Mysteries" (TLIG Feb. 9, 1990)
To see the update from the CDF go here: http://www.tlig.org/en/testimonies/churchpos/
You may want to get your facts straight before you slandering people!
"come, pray, fast, read My Word, receive Me in Holy Communion, pray the Rosary, adore Me" (TLIG aug. 24, 1989) read My Word, means read Scriptures! So, Jesus NEVER told Vassula not to read the Bible, He told her TO Read Scripture Daily!!
"I tell you solemnly, that I desire prayers coming from the heart; I desire you to pray for all the bishops and priests, I desire you to listen to all the teachings of those who represent Me; I desire you to fast and do penitence; I desire you to receive My Holy Eucharist as often as you can; I desire you to go to Confession at least once a month; I desire you to read daily a part out of Scriptures, I desire you to repair for others by sacrificing, I desire them to pray the Rosary and if possible all three Mysteries" (TLIG Feb. 9, 1990)
To see the update from the CDF go here: http://www.tlig.org/en/testimonies/churchpos/
You may want to get your facts straight before you slandering people!
# posted by : 3:03 PM
: 3:03 PM
Please contact me or give me an e-mail address to communicate with you. Something happened to me in 1997 and I have always wanted to visit with you concerning this happening. 4ye@everestkc.net
# posted by : 6:50 PM
: 6:50 PM
I had it from Vassula's lips directly -- there was no reading scripture daily from her mouth then -- instead, after being confronted with the lies about her language ability, she added that supplementally. In my opinion, she is a garden variety fraud and an excellent actress, but poor at explaining her inconsistencies.
I reported truthfully on Vassula and Tom McGlynn whose daughter is a nun with a well respected order in Ann Arbor, Michigan is still alive and well to attest to what happened that day. Liz Collins died in 2005.
To the Vassula Ryden followers:
1. How do you spell "cult" - C-U-L-T?
2. How do you spell "fraud" - F - R - A - U - D ?
3. How do you spell G - U - L - L - I - B - L - E
1. How do you spell "cult" - C-U-L-T?
2. How do you spell "fraud" - F - R - A - U - D ?
3. How do you spell G - U - L - L - I - B - L - E
"I have commissioned you to declare and transmit My Message to the world, but do remember that, I do not ask you to convince them; let those who have ears, hear" (TLIG Dec. 27 1988)
I will pray for you that the Lord will grant you the grace to hear His words in these messages for our time which is a call to return to our real foundations. They are a call to reconcile with one another, for Christian Unity, for a devotion to our Blessed Mother, obedience to the Pope, devotion to the Eucharist, daily repentance and He is revealing the riches of His Sacred Heart which He promised He would do in times when the love of many have grown cold. He said that to Saint Gertrude the Great.
In Christ's Love
A
I will pray for you that the Lord will grant you the grace to hear His words in these messages for our time which is a call to return to our real foundations. They are a call to reconcile with one another, for Christian Unity, for a devotion to our Blessed Mother, obedience to the Pope, devotion to the Eucharist, daily repentance and He is revealing the riches of His Sacred Heart which He promised He would do in times when the love of many have grown cold. He said that to Saint Gertrude the Great.
In Christ's Love
A
# posted by : 10:48 AM
: 10:48 AM
If you really believe that Vassula or the Mansours have made no money off of this, I have a bridge to sell you. Brooklyn or Chappaquidick, take your pick!
# posted by : 12:10 AM
: 12:10 AM
Hi,
I came to her site from google and
I started reading it. It did not make sense many things what she was saying. It was like she was repeating lot of words. It did not touch my soul so I said this got to be fake. So I googled her name and came across "Dealing with A Saint that ain't" and then I knew she was fake for sure. Only God's words can touch our hearts.
I came to her site from google and
I started reading it. It did not make sense many things what she was saying. It was like she was repeating lot of words. It did not touch my soul so I said this got to be fake. So I googled her name and came across "Dealing with A Saint that ain't" and then I knew she was fake for sure. Only God's words can touch our hearts.
I have just begun researching this subject after visiting a wonderful German lady who is 100% involved in Vassula. It frightens me to know that this could be a cult. She gave me books, showed me a video etc and my first reaction was "WOW". Now my heart aches that she may be involved in something so frightening. Please help me pray for guidance in dealing with this. Thank you.
# posted by : 11:09 AM
: 11:09 AM
You are being soooooo unfare! You know how does she pay for her travels? She just doesn't pay for them. The person who invites her to speak has to pay for the tickets, hotels and expenses. She could ask money to give a speech, but she never did it. Your perspective is only your perspective, it is not the TRUTH. If you only read the books you would see how unfare you are being to her... The thing is that you already judged her before you met her. And the only thing you wanted was to find reasons to support your judgment. Nothing in her books or lifestyle can be used to support your light perspective! Vassula ALWAYS tell people to read the Bible and put it into practice. And if you knew the Bible, you would remember of this verse:
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour."
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour."
# posted by : 7:33 AM
: 7:33 AM
This blog post is probably dead by now, but since i stumbled onto it now in 2009 i may as well add that, Constance, there are downright false accusations being made against Vassula in your post. There were a number of them, but let me point out one.
Vassula does not take a penny for the several hundreds thousand ore more True Life in God books that have been sold in more than 40 languages and around the world. Can you tell me another person, who had a chance to make millions of dollars from this, decided not to? Decided that it was more important to live by the command that Jesus gave her ... "I have freely given, now you freely give."
Real instruments of God are always persecuted. You're doing a wonderful job if it. Just remember that it is not Vassula that you are persecuting, but Jesus.
Vassula does not take a penny for the several hundreds thousand ore more True Life in God books that have been sold in more than 40 languages and around the world. Can you tell me another person, who had a chance to make millions of dollars from this, decided not to? Decided that it was more important to live by the command that Jesus gave her ... "I have freely given, now you freely give."
Real instruments of God are always persecuted. You're doing a wonderful job if it. Just remember that it is not Vassula that you are persecuting, but Jesus.
# posted by : 2:23 PM
: 2:23 PM
don't read this blog! all claims are false and I am sure that the only person earning money is the owner of this blog for persecuting TLIG! the posts of this blog are lies, so many lies. I am sure this person NEVER MET VASSULA! VASSULA NEVER SAID TO ANYBODY NOT TO READ THE BIBLE! SHE REPEATS CONSTANTLY: PRAYER - ROSARY - READING OF THE SCRIPTURES - UNITY - CONFESSION - COMMUNION AND MORE AND MORE WHICH ARE THE WORDS THAT THE CHURCH HAD BEEN REPEATING FOR 2000 YEARS! IT IS NOT ENOUGH OR YOU'RE ALL WAITING FOR A MIRACLE AND FOR SIGNS!?!
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