Friday, August 24, 2012

I'm not dead, I'm not kidnapped -- I am in trial!

Just about every iron I have in the various legal fires has come to a head in the months of July and August 2012.  That is why I haven't been as active as I want to be.  Additionally, I have been working on digitizing many important parts of my library so I can research and write with greater accuracy and speed.  That too has taken valuable time, but will pay valuable dividends.

I spoke with Dorothy Margraf tonight who told me many are worried.  I'm sleep deprived, overworked and under-rested, but apart from that, I'm just fine.

Pray for me.  I'll be back in business on this blogspot -- very soon and with very substantial material.

Thanks!

CONSTANCE
Comments:
Glad to hear from you!

for those wanting a link not a search direction, re chemtrails proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEfJO0-cTis

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0khstYDLA
 
Christine, I am prepared to believe almost anything of governments nowadays, including that they would expose their populations clandestinely to chemicals. And air release is a way to do that. BUT: (1) IF so, it would have an effect on us, not on the weather. And (2) It would not significantly alter the condensation trails visible behind aircraft.

In more detail, regarding (1), the earth's weather is so vast a system that all you can do is perhaps make it rain sooner, over point A, in order to stop it raining over point B another few miles downwind. you do that by seeding the clouds. But those clouds would surely have been going to rain anyway. You cannot conjure rain from nowhere, or change the wind pattern significantly which would require an energy input far exceeding what man can do.

Regarding (2), why would the dribble release of chemicals from an aircraft affect the condensation trail? (As I recall, you previously asserted here that prop planes did not produce contrails, which is false as many WW2 pics show, because hydrocarbon fuel produces water vapour when burned - the point is that more fuel is burned per minute in a jet ending. Contrails last for a short or a long time depending on the amount of water vapour already present in the air that the plane passes through, and that amount routinely varies from almost 0% to 100% humidity.)

It's a professionally made documentary therefore it must be right?

Physicist

 
not the kind of contrails a jet produces. and I repeat, I have been skygazing all my life, and NEVER EVER saw what I have been seeing for some time.

I too dismissed the chemtrail story as nonsense. until I started studying closer. OF COURSE these HAD to be contrails that were just not what they used to be. this COULDN'T be true, THEREFORE IT WASN'T.

Did you bother to watch the videos? I am not talking about professional style I am talking about the INFORMATION CONTENT which I first read in a Bound Optically Organized Knowledge device aka book. Not a video.

The purpose of chemtrails IS NOT TO SEED CLOUDS OR AFFECT WEATHER IN THE SENSE OF MAKING RAIN.

It is to change upper atmosphere characteristics to be more reflective of sunlight and lower the overall temperature. In addition, a strange mess of pathogens has turned up in the ground and stuff dribbled down, so someone has some kind of biowar eugenic purpose for this as well.

Why don't you take the trouble to inform yourself as to EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING SAID before answering the subject? Before I got informed, I sneered also.

But not any more.


 
"Did you bother to watch the videos?"

No. I spent thousands of hours of hard work gaining the knowledge of physical science that enables me to say that certain arguments are wrong without looking at the fine details. What I did do was find and google the name of the man behind that documentary, and track down online a summary of his views, together with other pro-chemtrail articles. In other words, I did what you did, but with a background in physical science. That way, I was able to get a lot more information a lot more quickly than by dropping 3 hours of time - which I prefer to spend doing real research - viewing the documentaries. As I have said, I am willing to believe some conspiracies, but not this one as you have phrased it.

Physicist

 
Constance:

Our prayers are on the way.

(So happy to hear that you are not 'dead' - or have been 'kidnapped'!!!)
 
Two Christian colleges file suit over Obamacare's forced funding of abortion:

http://www.charismanews.com/us/34031-biola-grace-file-federal-suit-over-abortion-pill-mandate
 
Christine:

I don't usually agree with you, but you are right on target on this one.

All of you, who read this blog, need to be FAIR and at least check out those two links that Christine has provided in her first post of 6:18 AM.

After viewing both videos, THEN you can decide to agree or disagree with Christine - using the logic and common sense that God gave every single one of us.

Here is one very important fact that my logic is telling me:

1) The smoke trail from a jet plane always follows a particular flight path, which soon dissipates.

2) These long, lingering chemtrails (which move from horizon to horizon in a criss-cross grid design - leaving a milky-white sky) do NOT follow any flight path, and do NOT dissipate.

So, that leaves me with one urgent question: WHAT are they spraying, and WHY are they spraying?
 
Dear Anon,

You wrote: "These long, lingering chemtrails (which move from horizon to horizon in a criss-cross grid design - leaving a milky-white sky) do NOT follow any flight path, and do NOT dissipate."

A criss-cross pattern is due to flights passing over in differing directions. Whether a contrail of water vapour evaporates rapidly, or remains, depends on the relative humidity of the atmosphere through which the aircraft passes. On some days you will see the contrail vanish just behind the plane, after a few seconds. That's because the air up there is very dry. On other days the contrail will persist for longer. In certain sub-critical conditions it will initiate the formation of cloud. These differences are all due simply to the humidity at altitude on the day, which varies naturally - just as it does at the ground.

I have looked at what the documentary maker has claimed in interviews online. If there is anything in those films that goes beyond his online interviews, please summarize it and I'll gladly discuss - in particular, any claim of enhancement of unnatural chemicals in the ground running beneath a flight path. I understand your surprise that I am not watching the videos, but they are lengthy and after doing a lot of hoax-busting or conspiracy evaluation it is possible to recognise a pattern relatively quickly.

Physicist
 
Physicist @ 6:16 AM -

Well, you have obviously done a good job of convincing yourself, but have not convinced me.

If you are so closed-minded that you won't even watch the videos, then there is really no point in any further discussion.

The strange irony here is that you contribute regularly to this blog, which is all about conspiracy theories!
 
"Well, you have obviously done a good job of convincing yourself, but have not convinced me."

That's probably a fair summary.

"If you are so closed-minded that you won't even watch the videos, then there is really no point in any further discussion."

I did explain the things that perplexed you, looked at a detailed online interview with the film-maker, and requested a summary of any evidence of ground chemical anomalies beneath a flight path. But online dialogue requires two consenting adults and I accept that you may not wish to provide that, just as I don't wish to drop 3 hours on stuff I think is almost certainly trash.

"The strange irony here is that you contribute regularly to this blog, which is all about conspiracy theories."

It's probably the sanest blog on earth to do that, but even so it still sometimes gets a little wacky in the threads.

I also don't believe that a US government chemtrail program could be kept quiet. Conspiratorialists love to think that government is packed with secrets, but in fact it is leaky as a sieve.

Physicist

 
Yes, and the truth is slowly beginning to 'leak' out, isn't it?

To those who have 'eyes to see and ears to hear.'
 
Well, if chemtrails are real then I'm happy to let more evidence accumulate before changing my mind, and to be a little behind the pace in learning of it. In that case I would congratulate those who saw it faster. But unless someone is prepared to post some summarized evidence then there's probably not more to say here on the subject for now.

Physicist

 
THE EVIDENCE YOU CLAIM YOU WANT TO SEE SUMMARIZED, IS SUMMARIZED IN THOSE TWO VIDEOS.

This remark of yours, acting as if such summary doesn't exist, is one of the reasons I have repeatedly stated that you are either lazy (don't follow the material posted or links within it for more research on sources or use search engines to pursue research on subject and source writers) OR dishonest. Take your pick.

Here are some more. Granted the URLs are to places that are often wacky, but at present those are about all the places that will deal with it. pursue links and sources.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/chemtrails_components_identified.htm

http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicchems.html incl. a photo showing both chemtrails and contrails in the same section of sky convenient for comparison.

as far as keeping secrets are concerned, leaks in all the categories dismissed as impossible to keep secret have in fact been occurring for decades, always dismissed, and besides that you only need a very very few people in the know to pull something like this.

Many projects now public have been kept secret, except for occasional rumors, for decades at a time. The Manhattan Project of course was only secret for a few years, and there are the stealth craft which were more like decades of work incl. the B2 (which is really a Horton Flying Wing reworked), not to mention some scandals that unclassified documents have verified, hitherto leaked in rumors and private diaries and stuff.

all a "conspiracy" or a secret needs to operate, is a shared set of values including silence enforced with some fear on the one hand, and a sense of superiority on the other as reward. The conflict of interest in the revolving door ex govt. and military employment in the military industrial complex on the one hand, and the Cheney Halliburton relationship and similar stuff on the other could be called a "conspiracy," or just hidden in plain sight with a taken for granted culture of exemption from question or consequences.
 
"A criss-cross pattern is due to flights passing over in differing directions. "

obviously that is the case, what you are ignoring is that such flight patterns usually don't fit the proper established flight corridors, and serve no rational purpose.
 
Physicist,
The problem with you is that you use logic and sound objectivity. You're like...well, Mr. Spock from Star Trek. You need to be more like Bones McCoy. Despite being in the medical profession, he says what he feels. You try to dazzle us with your science or whatever you call it. There's a great explanation for all those chemtrails. It's just a scheme by Dr. Doofenshmirtz (Phineas and Ferb)to take over the Tri-state area. Don't worry...there's a platypus out there ready to take him on!
 
Christine,

Thank you for those two further URLs.

The second one is full of inaccuracies - contrails do not form below 31000 ft? False - they form whenever the air through which the plane is flying is too humid for the water vapour formed by the burning of hydrocarbon fuel to evaporate quickly. They need to be above a certain height to be caught by the sun, of course. Remember also that if a warm front or a cold front is passing through then the relative humidity will be different at different heights, so that it is possible for two aircraft at differing heights over the same piece of ground at the same time to leave differing contrails - one short-lived and one long-lived. And the number of regular civilian flight paths over a piece of ground in the continental USA is huge; just put dots on a map where the airports are and connect them all with a pencil. Then there are military flights and private jets all doing one-offs or training.

Moreover even if chemicals are being released, why should they affect the contrail or even be visible at all? Very few chemicals have unusual optical characteristics.

None of this proves that chemtrails aren't real. But it is necessary to eliminate routine explanations first, and websites that fail to do this don't inspire me with confidence. I'm bowing out of this discussion as I have no interest in the subject. If I'm wrong then I'll let evidence accumulate and apologize later.

Physicist

 
Dear Mr Illogical,

"Physicist, The problem with you is that you use logic and sound objectivity."

Hey, that's a great compliment - thank you!

"You're like...well, Mr. Spock from Star Trek. You need to be more like Bones McCoy."

I need to be? I think you mean that you want me to be. What I NEED right now is a drink...

Physicist
 
Yeah, well we ALL need to stay inside and have 'a drink' with all of those chemtrails outside in the sky 'raining' down God-only-knows-what toxic chemicals over our heads!!! LOL
 
I miss both Constance AND Dorothy.
 
Constance, you wanted to contact Barbara Aho some time ago:

taho@watch-unto-prayer.org
 
DIGITAL PILL WITH CHIP INSIDE GETS FDA GREEN LIGHT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Ever wonder if you remembered to take your pills this morning? A medical tech startup has a novel solution: Swallow a computer chip that will help you keep track.

Proteus Digital Health scored a big victory this week when the U.S. Food and Drug Administration granted approval for the company's "ingestible sensor" invention. The 1 square millimeter device -- roughly the size of a grain of sand -- can relay information about your insides to you, and if you choose, to your doctor or nurse.

The chip works by being imbedded into a pill. Ingest it at the same time that you take your medication and it will go to work inside you, recording the time you took your dose. It transmits that information through your skin to a stick-on patch, which in turn sends the data to a mobile phone application and any other devices you authorize.

The system's goal is to overcome our forgetful impulses, says Andrew Thompson, the CEO and cofounder of Proteus.

"People live busy and complex lives, and as a result often don't take their medicines correctly," Thompson says. "We wanted to develop a solution that would help make existing medicines more effective in real life."

The European Union approved Proteus' system device in 2010, according to the company. The Redwood City, Calif., company plans to bring its first product, called "Helius," to market later this year in the U.K. in partnership with the Lloydspharmacy chain.

Helius includes Proteus' mobile health app, a supply of its stick-on patches (they last seven days, then need replacing) and a stash of its sensor-equipped placebo chips. The company declined to comment on the system's planned price tag.

The first wave of Proteus products will rely on placebo pills taken at the same time as the patient's medication. The company hopes to eventually get its sensors built straight into common medications, Thompson says.

Proteus' spent four years working through the FDA approval process. Now that it's got a green light, it plans to begin working on a U.S. version of its Helius system.

http://tinyurl.com/c8amfgm
 
I just came across this very interesting list of the U.S. astronauts who were Masons.

Apollo 11, Freemasons and the Moon

This article was dated July 20, 2009 - the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 landing on the Moon (that day in history that "the Eagle has landed" on the Sea of Tranquility).

http://tinyurl.com/8j3688l
 
Digital pill with chip inside gets FDA green light

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Ever wonder if you remembered to take your pills this morning? A medical tech startup has a novel solution: Swallow a computer chip that will help you keep track.

Proteus Digital Health scored a big victory this week when the U.S. Food and Drug Administration granted approval for the company's "ingestible sensor" invention. The 1 square millimeter device -- roughly the size of a grain of sand -- can relay information about your insides to you, and if you choose, to your doctor or nurse.

The chip works by being imbedded into a pill. Ingest it at the same time that you take your medication and it will go to work inside you, recording the time you took your dose. It transmits that information through your skin to a stick-on patch, which in turn sends the data to a mobile phone application and any other devices you authorize.

The system's goal is to overcome our forgetful impulses, says Andrew Thompson, the CEO and cofounder of Proteus.

"People live busy and complex lives, and as a result often don't take their medicines correctly," Thompson says. "We wanted to develop a solution that would help make existing medicines more effective in real life."

The European Union approved Proteus' system device in 2010, according to the company. The Redwood City, Calif., company plans to bring its first product, called "Helius," to market later this year in the U.K. in partnership with the Lloydspharmacy chain.

Helius includes Proteus' mobile health app, a supply of its stick-on patches (they last seven days, then need replacing) and a stash of its sensor-equipped placebo chips. The company declined to comment on the system's planned price tag.

The first wave of Proteus products will rely on placebo pills taken at the same time as the patient's medication. The company hopes to eventually get its sensors built straight into common medications, Thompson says.

Proteus spent four years working through the FDA approval process. Now that it's got a green light, it plans to begin working on a U.S. version of its Helius system.

http://tinyurl.com/c8amfgm
 
Scientists successfully 'hack' brain to obtain private data...

http://tinyurl.com/9xdqpq6


 
Digital pill with chip inside gets FDA green light...

http://tinyurl.com/c8amfgm
 
Let's leave the Freemasons, who have no doubt already appointed a Grand Master of The Most Worshipful Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons On The Moon, to battle it out with the folks who say we never even got there (although such a hoax would have been a lot harder to fake in the 1960s than actually going there).
 
Anonymous 4:54
Thank you so much for your kind remembrance of all that I posted over the years. Although I continue to do much research on New Age, I find that I'm too busy these days to get involved in the topics that have taken over this blog. No complaints on my part. Posting is free. It just that things have moved far away from my interests.

Dorothy
 
Dorothy,

Let's hope this blog can get back on track. It is a far lesser place without your invaluable input on New Age issues.
 
whatever altitude they form at doesn't matter. The point is, the kind we are seeing now, in addition to the normal kind which is still around, was NOT around in the old days when I was a kid and looked at the sky a lot.

BTW I also looked at the sky at night. there are people out there claiming the moon looks wierd and the sun is the wrong color, etc. etc., and all this is normal optical atmospheric effects, these people just started looking outdoors I guess, I have seen all these things since the early 1960s.

So not everyone out there has their head screwed on straight, just because they are running counter to standard scientific wisdom.
 
"whatever altitude they form at doesn't matter. The point is, the kind we are seeing now, in addition to the normal kind which is still around, was NOT around in the old days"

Please specify IN YOUR OWN WORDS (since you are the witness) what you mean. This is a definite claim and I welcome clarification.

"I also looked at the sky at night. there are people out there claiming the moon looks wierd and the sun is the wrong color, etc. etc., and all this is normal optical atmospheric effects, these people just started looking outdoors I guess, I have seen all these things since the early 1960s."

I can't work out whether you are claiming that things have changed or not - this is a highly ambiguous sentence in context. Again, please clarify and be more specific. Bear in mind that more people live near sources of atmospheric pollution than 50 years ago and that fine dust has more effect than most chemicals on the optical properties of the atmosphere.

"So not everyone out there has their head screwed on straight, just because they are running counter to standard scientific wisdom."

HEAR HEAR!

Physicist
 
The point is that more of us need to step away from our computers and take the time to go out and look up at the sky (day or night) so that we can observe these changes for ourselves.

When the Bible tells us that 'there shall be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars'...we weren't told that that we also had to have a degree in science before we were 'qualified' to share our observations with others....or warned that we would have to put up with being mocked or dismissed by other fellow 'Christians.'

Luke 21:25 (KJV)
"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring."
 
Anon@7.03am,

I - Physicist - am not very much younger than Christine, so the changes that she says she has seen, I would have seen too - but I have not seen anything I regard as inexplicable, despite living in a country where there are at least as many overflights and visiting the USA about 10 times for conferences.

I asked Christine for references to a specific aspect of chemtrails and she (eventually) gave them - I can have no complaints about that. It is up to me whether I wish to pursue them, of course, and since I didn't I ended the exchange. Now she says she has personal eye-witness info; this is fresh data and I would greatly welcome a detailed description. Please check for yourself in previous threads whether I deal properly with people who are genuinely interested in science including the interplay between observation and theory. Any description needs to be as careful and detailed as possible. NB It was Christine who wrote the polemical comment about having one's head screwed on straight, not me.


 
You take care and stay healthy!
Looks like the Rick Love- Jim Wallis team is at it again:
http://www.theird.org/issues/war--peace/12-08-23-war-evangelical-left-plots-d.c.-pacifist-summit?erid=1638439&trid=993a2835-3db4-4598-a84a-ce1313dac3ba
Didn't you write about them in 2007 when they signed the big apology letter to Muslims?
 
I wonder how long this will take until it is "required" by health care providers? I imagine that doing so will lower health care costs and provide better long term management--or so the argument will go.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/03/technology/startups/ingestible-sensor-proteus/index.htm?source=cnn_bin
 
...speaking of Muslims, Mubarak of Egypt was no angel, but he was a long-time ally of the U.S., and the current administration helped in the overthrow of that government, and the installation of the "Muslim Brotherhood", an agent of which works with Secretary of State Hillary. Muchas Gracias! Now this is what's happening in Egypt:
http://www.shoebat.com/2012/08/28/listen-up-folks-this-is-egypt/ BTW: 666 in Hebrew= "in the name of allah".
 
Forgot to add that B.O. and Hillary are trying to do the same thing in Syria. Bottom line: Please pray for the Christians in both Syria and Egypt. There is now a bill in the Egyptian parliament calling for crucifixions, amputations, beheadings, etc., of non-Muslims.
No more religion freedom in Syria or Egypt.
 
"I - Physicist - am not very much younger than Christine, so the changes that she says she has seen, I would have seen too - but I have not seen anything I regard as inexplicable, despite living in a country where there are at least as many overflights and visiting the USA about 10 times for conferences.

I asked Christine for references to a specific aspect of chemtrails and she (eventually) gave them "

first off, this phenomenon seems to have started in the US and gone abroad. Maybe you weren't looking that much. I doubt you ever saw the wide fluffy long lasting things we see now back in the early 1960s.

The issue is NOT are they inexplicable but DID THEY EXIST BEFORE NOW?

Secondly, I gave the references using videos right up front. those videos have more info packed in than the longer stuff you have to troll the web for.

The way you play I am beginning to seriously consider you are a disinformation player.

The misdirection you provided about Constance's remarks on holograms, arguing they are not occult, is a case in point.

no one ever said they were occult, any more than the Internet or cell phones are occult, all of which can be used to promote an occult agenda or other frauds. THAT was the point, that the technology exists (I have my doubts about its workability in the kind of physical context at issue, outside a controlled environment) to create a fake Second Coming of Christ in order to get past that point of expectation of some people the proposer of this idea wanted to derail.

Throwing a red herring in like you did is not unusual for you.
 
Christine,

I tried to educate you here about various aspects of science in the past that were relevant to your posts, but I found you unwilling to listen. I now respond to you mainly when you say something that is inconsistent with well-established science, so that readers of this blog will not be misled. In the holograms chapter of her anti-New-Age book, Constance took the claims of New Age/occult people about holograms at face value, when they were in fact talking scientific nonsense with a lacing of occult weirdness. 'Occult' means hidden - ie, not upfront.

Your personal evidence for chemtrails seems to be that you have observed aircraft trails nowadays lasting longer and being fluffier than in the early 1960s. In the early 1960s quite a few commercial routes were still run by prop planes rather than jets. They are slower and therefore used less fuel per mile. So the amount of water vapour that they left behind them per mile was less. So, for a given %age relative humidity in the air through which the plane passed, the contrail would be weaker. It would evaporate faster, before diffusion had had time to let it spread out ('fluffier'). But in conditions of 99% humidity and local atmospheric cooling, ie cloud was on the point of forming, the contrail would initiate a cloud formation whether it came from a prop plane or a jet plane. (Both use hydrocarbon fuel and therefore produce water vapour.)

I accept that you have read or watched more stuff about chemtrails than me. But in a world suffering a glut of information, most of which is trash, we all decide what to read and what not to read on the basis of how much time we have and whether we believe to begin with that the author is talking sense or nonsense. I've decided that chemtrails are a trash claim. Compared with you I've done that on the basis of less (though not zero) reading about them and more scientific knowledge, and we have reached opposite conclusions. OK. If I'm wrong then decisive evidence will eventually reach me from various sources that I monitor and trust. I would then admit that you were right. But for now I prefer to get on with other things.

Physicist

 
jets leave a lot more by the nature of their propulsion style than prop planes. They push forward by pushing out in back all their fuel during a burn and the resulting exhaust.

The contrails I could see were clearly behind jets from the build incl. military occasionally.

The normal contrail is still around.

In addition, a jet crashed and the fuel spill wasn't at all normal but a silvery brew. I can't dig this up right now, but I think youtube or google using crash chemtrail jet as search terms will find it.

meanwhile, occasional detoxification regimens might be in order. Can't hurt, with all the pollution from normal sources we have. Abnormal levels of strontium and barium in the ground and resulting damage to plant life and trees is another issue, as are changes in Ph that make no sense whatsoever. In one of those videos, a guy shows how the kind of soil and leaf mulch from trees there should have one level Ph and used to, when now it is radically wrong Ph for such soils. Something was added and he didn't do it.
 
by the way, don't bother educating me about stuff. Most of the sources I go by, incl. reasons why these don't apply, as I have said before. And tried to educate you. For instance, as is already known, add spin to something and you change the situation. This is a feature of the faraday disk and a bit of a puzzle, but accepted by regular electrical science. Many things are an issue of ratcheting up effect by some kind of equivalent to leverage. One can argue that laws of physics aren't broken, just as yet not understood enough to anticipate this. I think one link I gave in another thread on this blog incl. a lot of mathematics on this, making such an argument, it was I think a pdf. file.

Personally I don't care about math only, does it work, never mind why.

The range of success and failure indicates that some peculiar qualities of some elements or compounds in the tools, wired, containment, whatever, play a role not recognized.
 
"jets leave a lot more by the nature of their propulsion style than prop planes."

Agreed Christine. I explained that in more detail above.

"They push forward by pushing out in back all their fuel during a burn and the resulting exhaust."

That's what a rocket does. On top of that, a jet engine takes in air and expels it at a much higher temperature, which means it is expelled out the back at a much higher speed than it was taken in at, at the front of the engine. The main component of the force provided by jet engines is due to this effect, not the pure rocket effect.

The frontiers of knowledge in physical science today are far beyond the kind of thing you are talking about at 0938. There is a continual interplay of theory and experiment, so we do not neglect observations. Whenever the opportunity arises to test the presently formulated laws of physics in new conditions (eg, hotter than before, at higher pressure than before, etc), we do it. And whenever technology improves so that we can repeat older experiments to greater accuracy, we do it. The combination of conditions prevailing in the anomalous observations you mention has been explored to great accuracy in every physics department in the world. That is why we are confident that those anomalies are due to incompetence and delusion (or occasionally fraud).

Nor is there a schism between electromagnetism and the rest of physics, as you imply. Please educate yourself on what science does say before disagreeing with it.

Physicist

 
Physicist @ 5:04 AM:

Wow - stop and re-read your latest post. Is it possible to sound any more arrogant or dismissive?

Examples:

"I tried to educate you . . ."

" . . . you have observed aircraft trails nowadays lasting longer and being fluffier . . .

"I accept that you have read or watched more stuff about chemtrails than me but . . .

" . . . a glut of information, most of which is trash, we all decide what to read and what not to read . . .

"Compared with you I've done that on the basis of less (though not zero) reading about them . . . "

" . . . If I'm wrong then decisive evidence will eventually reach me from various sources that I monitor and trust."
___________________________________

Memo to Physicist: Some of the 'busiest' people I know always manage to take the TIME to thoroughly check out the subject (in this case a video) being debated. What are you afraid of? That you might actually learn something that may possibly contradict your 'scientific' knowledge?

 
Dear Anon@1038,

My attempts to explain science to Christine were largely a few months ago in extended posts in threads on this blog. Christine rejected what I was saying without understanding it, as you can verify for yourself. You are seeing the tip of an iceberg of a long exchange involving her and me. Sadly she continues to promote trash physics here, which is not the purpose of this blog. She stops, I stop.

"Some of the 'busiest' people I know always manage to take the TIME to thoroughly check out the subject (in this case a video) being debated. What are you afraid of?"

Wasting my time. I said above that I don't want to debate chemtrails; the subject doesn't interest me. I am happy to contribute in one specific way: by explaining that contrails behind jet and prop planes in varying atmospheric conditions can produce a wider range of visual effects than is often realised.

Other than that I'm content to monitor the debate, because it's of limited interest to me. If evidence eventually accumulates that I am wrong about chemtrails then I should congratulate the people who saw it faster than me.

Physicist

 
For those interested, I posted an exerpt from the actual magazine article containing the purported quote of Ted Turner regarding depopulation as a "95% decline from present levels...". While this exact verbiage is NOT in the quote, this IS the intent after doing the math.

It actually states, …If we had a much smaller population, and over time we could have an ethic where we had only one child, and over maybe 300 or 400 years we could cut back to 250 million – 350 million people….

Here's the post (with added commentary):

http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/ted-turners-math-problem/

I'm doing my part to correct rampant internet mis/disinformation. In this particular case, to make matters worse, there are myriad sources cited as the origination of the quote. It's actually in the November-December 1991 Audubon.
 
Yes, Ted Turner (whom Constance identified as a New Ager 30 years ago); Ted Turner (whose home town is Atlanta, Georgia); the same Ted Turner who no doubt agrees with the George Guidestones (whose No. 1 goal is to maintain a world population of 500 million people).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones


 
Correction: that should read 'Georgia' Guidestones.
 
Hi Constance
Have you given any consideration to republishing Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow with updated material?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8hC5WjcOx0&feature=related

interesting how one guy started as thinking the idea of an axis tilt (or crustal displacement?) type pole shift is nonsense, and then changed his mind because of observing government and military preparations consistent with this.
 
According to Cal Garrison’s The Weiser Field Guide to Ascension [2010, Weiser Books, San Francisco, CA/Newburyport, MA], we will know when the poles are about to shift as it will follow the occasion when Mother Earth’s Kundalini moves:

Every time the Earth moves from one grid level to the next, her physical body goes through a pole shift. Before she makes that physical shift, she first has to do it inwardly by repositioning her Kundalini (the spiritual aspect of her polar axis) and attuning herself spiritually to the energies of the next evolutionary cycle. This is how she prepares herself. Whenever her Kundalini moves from one location to another, it is a sign that the Great Mother is getting ready for a pole shift. Both the energetic and the physical aspects of the shift are part of a natural process that recurs approximately every thirteen thousand years.

Up until 2008, the Kundalini of the planet was rooted in the highest mountains of Tibet. The Indigenous people of the world have always known this – and what their Wisdom Keepers have also known is that the time would soon come for what is otherwise known as the ”Serpent of Light” to move to its new home in the mountains of Chile. That change has already occurred, and the Elders are telling us it won’t be long before the Earth’s poles shift in order to align themselves with the changes that took place in the subtle energy realms more than two years ago.
[pp 66-68]

Can it be any more obvious whose behind this teaching with the Serpent of Light reference? Of course, we know from Alice Bailey’s teachings that it was the “Spiritual Hierarchy” which was residing in “the highest mountains of Tibet”.
 
It's quite likely that we are in the early phases of a swapround of N and S magnetic poles. It's a natural phenomenon. To learn more about how it happens, google "pole shift" AND "dynamo theory". Inclusion of dynamo theory in the search should filter out most of the cranks. Molten iron moving within the earth's core creates a magnetic field, which in turn acts back on the iron. There can be pole shifts. The system can't keep going indefinitely without an energy course, but there is one - natural radioactivity.

Swapround of the earth's rotational poles would mean either physically turning the earth upside-down relative to the stars, or slowing its rotation to zero - corresponding to days getting indefinitely long - and then reversing itself. The angular momentum changes involved are utterly unprecedented and in practice impossible. You know how hard it is to do anything to a rapidly rotating gyroscope that involves changing the direction in which the axis of rotation points. Think of the earth as a giant gyroscope.

Physicist

 
Does anybody know if this

http://www.alan-morrison.com/about.shtml

is the same Alan Morrison who wrote an outstanding book on the New Age called The Serpent And The Cross? (One of the big four Judaeo-Christian authors on the subject IMHO, together with Gary Kah, Constance, and Hannah Newman).

This website is very vague about this Alan Morrison's past, but there's a lot that fits (details on request here if anybody can take this further). On the assumption that it is the same man I prayed for him in tears when I saw this. The Christian Alan Morrison came out of the New Age, and it would seem that he was been pulled back in.
 
That's a different Alan Morrison. The one you're probably referring to is a Messianic-Jewish-American living in Europe. He's written a number of essays for Spiritual Counterfeit Journal (out of Berkeley), including "the Two Jerusalems", which I'm still trying to reconcile with my ever-evolving understanding of Biblical Eschatology.
Guillermo
 
Crustal displacement would mean the crust skates along the mantle, repositioning various land masses the same as if an axis change had occurred, from the perspective of view of the stars by anyone on the surface.

New Agers are always jumping on any oddball science thing as a supposed validation, and are nothing to be taken seriously. A magnetic pole and a "spiritual pole" or "spiritual axis" are hardly the same things. Until recently the axis of dubious spirituality may have been in Tibet, but neither north or south magnetic pole were anywhere near it.

When I read that bit I didn't know whether to laugh or vomit. Too tired right now to manage a snort, but that would sum it up. Unfortunately, silly people seeking a sense of profound mystical superiority go for it.
 
Dear 7.22pm,

Are you sure? The Alan Morrison who wrote The Serpent and the Cross was I believe British, ran websites called diakrisis then blepofactor (both now extinct), had been a pastor in the northern UK and Eindhoven, and moved to France. He often wrote on classical music, having repudiated pop music when he came out of New Age (according to his online testimony, of which I have retained a printout). The Alan Morrison I linked to above says on that website that he is British and has lived in France, the Netherlands and Sweden (where it seems he is now living), is a musician, and makes oblique references to a "a long life-quest through the realms of social work, counselling and freelance journalism, as well in as a personal pilgrimage through the siren spheres of spirituality".

His written style on the blog section of that website is very reminiscent of the Christian Alan Morrison too. And there are some similar themes - the essay "The lost art of femininity" reminds me of a rather bitter essay by the Christian Alan Morrison on the theme Jezebel suggesting that a group of women had wrecked his ministry in the UK church he pastored. His essays got progressively sharper in a way that worried me, then he fell silent, now there exists the website I linked to...

Finally, there was one low-resolution shot of the Christian Alan Morrison on the diakrisis website next to his testimony, and it looks vaguely like the pics at the website I linked to.

It's not an uncommon name, though. Are you sure of what you say? Do you know 'your' Alan Morrison personally? I'd be relieved to know that the website man is not the Serpent/Cross-diakrisis-bleopfactor man.


 
4:37- Now I'm confused. You may be correct, and I apologize for muddling. This Morrison guy is very multi-faceted, apparently. When I saw "diakrisis", it rung a bell, and knew that it was the same person that writes for SCP. Thanks for helping to clarify. If anyone else has read "the Two Jerusalems", I'd be interested in hearing others thoughts on it.
Guillermo
 
If Alan Morrison 1 and 2 it would not be the first time someone had left an error, and then been sucked into another. That wouldn't invalidate his anti New Age material, but it should be recommended with a warning not to follow his later stuff. This is the first I recall hearing of him, so I have no opinion on him.

Francis Schaeffer's son who dumped evangelicalism to become Eastern Orthodox, has been moving farther and farther away from Orthodoxy and from Orthodox moral stances in the past years, for example. Origen in the 200s AD was brilliant, but ran amok in speculative stuff and even castrated himself and was anathematized a few centuries later.

This link was sent me on an egroup I run, http://groups.yahoo.com/substitutionary_atonementin_orthodoxy

this is about the role of occultists, gnostics and hysterial spirituality types in the communist revolution. This parallel goes back long before the Baileys, obviously.

The problem is, there is some validity from a Christian perspective, to some ideas of how to live and so forth, but these have to be handled carefully not make them the definitive descriptor of Christianity.

http://www.gnostics.com/newdawn-1.html
 
from that link, you would think some modern New Ager or a Manifest Sons of God type aberrant pentecostal or similar sort described in Herescope (see link on Constance's blog front page) was writing this.

"The ideas advanced by Lunacharsky and Gorky became known as God building, described by one researcher as a “movement of secular rejuvenation with mystery cult aspects.”15 God building implied that a human collective, through the concentration of released human energy, can perform the same miracles that were assigned to supra-natural beings. God builders regarded early Christianity as an authentic example of collective God building, Christ being nothing other than the focus of collective human energy. “The time will come,” said Gorky, “when all popular will shall once again amalgamate in one point. Then an invincible and miraculous power will emerge, and God will be resurrected.”16 Years before, Fyodor Dostoyevsky had written in The Possessed, “God is the synthetic personality of the whole people.” According to Mikhail Agursky:

For Gorky, God-building was first of all a theurgical action, the creation of the new Nature and the annihilation of the old, and therefore it coincided fully with the Kingdom of the Spirit. He considered God to be a theurgical outcome of a collective work, the outcome of human unity and of the negation of the human ego.17"
 
Christine,

Origen may or may not have castrated himself. While it’s a possibility, it seems doubtful. Here are two separate sources:

…as a young man Origen may have castrated himself (taking literally the words of JESUS IN MATTHEW 19:12) and Demetrius may have objected to the ordination of a eunuch….” [Lavinia Cohn-Sherbok Who’s Who in Christianity. 1998, Routledge, London, UK/New York, NY; p 227]

Note the words of the author may have stated twice in this short section. Here’s the 2nd source:

At this time [When Origen was about twenty] his ascetical life was rumored to be the result of a decision to have himself castrated. It was a story reported a century after his death by Eusebius in book six of his Ecclesiastical History, but it is highly unlikely, as Origen himself speaks of those who interpret the Gospel text on castration (Matthew 19:12) in a literal way as little better than fools. Eusebius wishes to use the story as a reason to explain the local bishop’s protest at Origen’s ordination by others…and thereby distract attention from the fact that Origen had probably been accused of heterodoxy in his own lifetime. [John A. McGuckin The SCM Press A-Z of Patristic Theology.2005, 2nd ed (2004), St Albans Place, London, UK; pp 243-244]
 
interesting. a certain sloppiness moving towards gnosticism at times or some symptoms of it, seems to have been in Orthodox monasticism at times, partly due to the influence of Evagrius Ponticus, a disciple of Origen. Another problem is that St. Gregory of Nyssa, and the Cappadocian Fathers in general, though great defenders of the doctrine of The Trinity, were influenced by Origen.

Nyssa's Philokalia (as distinct from the much later book of that title) incl. almost every point of Origen's teaching that was later anathematized.

Evagrius was excellent on some points, and worked out a systems analysis of sin and virtue. But he was never canonized.
 
Gregory of Nyssa appears not to have adopted Origen's views (or Origenism) but rather used Origen as a jumping off point. See Philip Schaff here:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf205.vii.iii.html


There has been renewed interest in the works of Gregory of Nyssa with Sarah Coakley being on the forefront:

http://www.amazon.com/Re-thinking-Gregory-Directions-Modern-Theology/dp/1405106379/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1346549397&sr=8-2&keywords=sarah+coakley+rethinking
 
Fascinating article about Gnostics, Socialism and Communism. The description reeks with New Age ideas and New Age terms. What particularly caught my attention were the lines:

"He called his circle “an Order of Knights” and included in its ranks members of a Gnostic “God-manhood sect” which taught that each individual is potentially destined to become a god...
and
Communist God Builders and the Occult...
A Marxist pamphlet written before 1917 and later reissued by the Soviet government bluntly declared that man is destined to “take possession of the universe and extend his species into distant cosmic regions, taking over the whole solar system. Human beings will be immortal.”

Is it possible that Mormonism was developed by an individual heavily influenced by such occult descriptions?

I'm not saying Romney is such a believer, but it is something about which we should know more.
 
Anon 2:55 AM,
That is very interesting and I was wondering if there is a link that could get me to that marxist pamphlet. I do know that Mormonism teaches that we can achieve god-hood in eternity and even create our own worlds.
 
Anon 2:55,
I just answered my own question to you. I did a search and came up with the link that talks about the "Occult Roots of the Russian Revolution". That is an incredibly interesting read. I had never heard of that. Here is the link for all who are interested.

http://www.gnostics.com/newdawn-1.html
 
John, that is the same link that Christine posted earlier. (Christine's first link was blocked.) It was the one that triggered my renewed interest in the topic at this point. It led to other gnostic related sites that I am finding very interesting, sites that relate to current political events. In context, go to the source link, gnostics.com and you will pull up Parallel Perspectives. You might have to use Internet Explorer to open the pages found there as I had to. The link I found of interest showed a connection to the Occupy movement.

Interestingly enough, some of the time an ad for Romney appears at the top of that page. The sources at the bottom of the original article you should find of interest. I was familiar with some of them. I was surprised that Wurmbrand's book, Marx and Satan, was not mentioned. Perhaps it was not considered academic enough. Fire in the Minds of Men was also not mentioned although it's academic.

Also check out another ACTA paper, Victor A. Shnirelman's "Russian Neo-Pagan Myths and
Antisemitism" can be read on line. It points to New Age activity in Russia leading to antisemitism. It can be found here:

http://sicsa.huji.ac.il/13shnir.html

http://mail.sott.net/articles/show/106635-Russian-Neo-pagan-Myths-and-Antisemitism-

Yes, I do follow this blog though I don't contribute as I did in the past. Occasionally some very good information comes up. Thanks Christine for the link I found so useful.

If you are interested, you can contact me through JD or Susanna.

Dorothy
 
John, I guess we are into disappearing posts again. I had a very long response to you that appeared and disappeared. Tomorrow I'll try to reconstruct what I wrote. It's one of the reasons I stopped posting here quite a while ago. Something is going on behind the scenes. In the meantime you can contact me through JD or Susanna.

Dorothy
 
John,
Trying to recreate my answer now. First, the link you gave was the second link Christine gave. Her first link didn't work. For this we need to thank her. I wasn't familiar with the important link until she posted it.

Second, the sources at the bottom of the link we both used are valuable. I was aware of some of them already as you probably were.

Third, I was surprised to see the book by Wurmbrand, Marx and Satan wasn't referenced. Maybe the writer didn't think it was academic enough. The book Fire in the Minds of Men should also be on the Reference list.

Fourth, check out this piece by a prof in the Soviet Union that appeared on the Sassoon site. You can read it on line.
http://sicsa.huji.ac.il/13shnir.html
Russian Neo-pagan Myths and Antisemitism
by
Victor A. Shnirelman
Acta no. 13, Analysis of current trends in antisemitism, 1998. Copyright © It shows a connection between New Age and what is happening in the Soviet Union.

I would be more organized with my information if after 30 plus years of checking these things out I could find three people who were researching the same fields as I am. Alas, nothing. Everyone seems to have their own search world.

I still read the blog for the occasional useful information posted.

If someone took my original post off, please know I will be reposting until it stays on.

 
Looking forward to your analysis, Dorothy.
 
John, my post disappeared again. Here it is. This will be the third time I've posted the information. The first two times it disappeared.

John,
Trying to recreate my answer now. First, the link you gave was the second link Christine gave. Her first link didn't work. For this we need to thank her. I wasn't familiar with the important link until she posted it.

Second, the sources at the bottom of the link we both used are valuable. I was aware of some of them already as you probably were.

Third, I was surprised to see the book by Wurmbrand, Marx and Satan wasn't referenced. Maybe the writer didn't think it was academic enough. The book Fire in the Minds of Men should also be on the Reference list.

Fourth, check out this piece by a prof in the Soviet Union that appeared on the Sassoon site. You can read it on line.
http://sicsa.huji.ac.il/13shnir.html
Russian Neo-pagan Myths and Antisemitism
by
Victor A. Shnirelman
Acta no. 13, Analysis of current trends in antisemitism, 1998. Copyright © It shows a connection between New Age and what is happening in the Soviet Union.

I would be more organized with my information if after 30 plus years of checking these things out I could find three people who were researching the same fields as I am. Alas, nothing. Everyone seems to have their own search world.

I still read the blog for the occasional useful information posted.

 
John, my post disappeared again. Here it is. This will be the third time I've posted the information. The first two times it disappeared.

John,
Trying to recreate my answer now. First, the link you gave was the second link Christine gave. Her first link didn't work. For this we need to thank her. I wasn't familiar with the important link until she posted it.

Second, the sources at the bottom of the link we both used are valuable. I was aware of some of them already as you probably were.

Third, I was surprised to see the book by Wurmbrand, Marx and Satan wasn't referenced. Maybe the writer didn't think it was academic enough. The book Fire in the Minds of Men should also be on the Reference list.

Fourth, check out this piece by a prof in the Soviet Union that appeared on the Sassoon site. You can read it on line.
http://sicsa.huji.ac.il/13shnir.html
Russian Neo-pagan Myths and Antisemitism
by
Victor A. Shnirelman
Acta no. 13, Analysis of current trends in antisemitism, 1998. Copyright © It shows a connection between New Age and what is happening in the Soviet Union.

I would be more organized with my information if after 30 plus years of checking these things out I could find three people who were researching the same fields as I am. Alas, nothing. Everyone seems to have their own search world.

I still read the blog for the occasional useful information posted.
 
Fourth time.
John,
Trying to recreate my answer now. First, the link you gave was the second link Christine gave. Her first link didn't work. For this we need to thank her. I wasn't familiar with the important link until she posted it.

Second, the sources at the bottom of the link we both used are valuable. I was aware of some of them already as you probably were.

Third, I was surprised to see the book by Wurmbrand, Marx and Satan wasn't referenced. Maybe the writer didn't think it was academic enough. The book Fire in the Minds of Men should also be on the Reference list.

Fourth, check out this piece by a prof in the Soviet Union that appeared on the Sassoon site. You can read it on line.
http://sicsa.huji.ac.il/13shnir.html
Russian Neo-pagan Myths and Antisemitism
by
Victor A. Shnirelman
Acta no. 13, Analysis of current trends in antisemitism, 1998. Copyright © It shows a connection between New Age and what is happening in the Soviet Union.

I would be more organized with my information if after 30 plus years of checking these things out I could find three people who were researching the same fields as I am. Alas, nothing. Everyone seems to have their own search world.

I still read the blog for the occasional useful information posted.
 
yes Mormonism WAS influenced by occultism at the founding. Joseph Smith was busted and convicted TWICE before he allegedly heard from angels for "money digging." This was a procedure where someone was hired to find buried treasure, and the would do a ritual out of a grimoire and sacrifice a black sheep to a demon to get the information. How much money ever got found (except in the sorcerer's
pocket) is anybody's guess. Apparently his mother wasn't much better of a person.

Utah Lighthouse Ministry goes into this in detail. http://www.utlm.org/

Recently, as in 20 or more years ago, the Mormon Church found a talisman of saturn right out of a grimoire among some Joseph Smith memorabilia, that descendants of his followers often have in their attics. In all innocent ignorance they thought it was some reformed Egyptian. I have messed with this stuff in the past and recognized it at once, and so did some other people and it got quietly quashed.

Some occultists do not want their followers doing occultism, they want to hog the occult for themselves and also never give outsiders and potential converts grounds for criticism on a biblical basis other than doctrines they can try to subvert. Some things like Tarot Cards, grimoire designs and so forth are just too obvious and considered dangerous even by some into minor occultism and by the secularists who consider it superstition also.

An undercurrent must have existed from Smith's time, however, because the Satanic Ritual Abuse thing surfaced in Mormonism, according to a private memo from bishop Glenn Pace, which got leaked, and because of which some elements in the temple ritual were changed so as not to be triggering or so exploitable because the Mormon version of SRA exploited those rituals.

Bigwigs were involved, and one was recognized from a photo as having been at a "gentile" (non Mormon) gathering of devil worshippers that incl. a human sacrifice the person I knew had attended.

The same person had an entity living in him, that would be silenced by being overpowered so he could be comfortable more or less in church during the hymn singing, but was irritated rather than bound by the atmosphere in the parking lot at a Baptist church, and at an RC church. When in an Orthodox church the entity was bound, but when in a Mormon church, the entity was "comfortable."

go figure.
 
Dorothy,
Thank you for your information. I never realized there was so much more involved like this in the Russian Revolution.

Christine,
Thank you for giving us that link. I didn't realized you had supplied that when I found it on a search but this is some very important information that I think all of us should be aware of.
 
you're welcome. You will find a hellslew of the same sort of stuff though slightly different in the background of the right wing as well.
It plays on all fields.

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=%E2%80%9CSlav-Gorets+wrestling%E2%80%9D

gives several articles on all this
 
John, Dorothy, etc,

If any further communication is desired, feel free to use my email in my signature. Or if anyone else has anything to share, feel free.
 
Yes it's the same Alan Morrison I (who opened the subject) have had my attention pointed to this YouTube clip of the Christian Alan Morrison form 1996:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb4MsRsODoc

and it is clearly the same as the poet/singer at

www.alan-morrison.com

Please join me in praying for him. He has manifestly lost his faith in Jesus Christ as the divine son of the creator, crucified and died for our sins and risen. Without agreeing with everything he wrote, I learned a lot from Alan Morrison at an important time.


 
still behind you in prayer connie, I hope you can launch the book. It is needed.
 
Physicist, you keep saying you don't want to look at the videos because you'd be 'wasting time'. Yet you've wasted a considerable amount of time replying to messages as a way to 'defend' yourself, at least that's how I see it. You should be more open minded especially when you contribute so much time on a specific topic.
 
Hi,
I'm responding to someone's post wondering about Alan Morrison. I was part of his email group for many, many years, probably from 1998 and on. Eventually I started supporting him financially. What he said I thought was right on. My husband is a pastor in a conservative denomination, and we appreciated what Alan was doing. It became scary there for a time, as he said that his life and the lives of his wife and children had been threatened many times, and that's why the many moves. I even received a few of his CD's. My husband didn't really like them, but I did. Anyway, it was sad when he disappeared off the face of the earth. I starting searching for him on the Internet, and found his facebook site, which is linked to his website listed above. I wrote to him and he didn't answer. Another friend who lives in England, who actually had a visit from Alan when he was in her area, wrote to him and he didn't respond either. She asked a mutual friend of Alan's and he said he thought he was ok, but I don't see evidence of it. If he is afraid of being found, well, even going to Sweden and staying on the Internet won't do it. His wife Catherine used to play the cello with him, but she is nowhere in sight. I hurt for him, and I pray that he hasn't left her and the kids, but it sure looks suspicious, with his earrings, dyed hair and all the worldly trappings. Yes, I have prayed for him over the last few years. Today I thought of him and found this blog and after reading what a few of you have said, I'm more convinced than ever that he has lost his way. May the Lord have mercy on his soul.
A concerned Christian sister, Dianne
 
I said facebook, but I mean to say MySpace! Anyway, we keep praying.
Dianne
 
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