Thursday, January 01, 2009

Gorbachev's latest call for a New World Order

According to Wayne Peterson, a former State Department employee/"diplomat" and Fulbright Scholarship administrator, Mikhail Gorbachev is an avowed and open follower of "Maitreya the Christ" better known to readers of my blogspot as "Betraya" -- whoever and whatever he/she/it turns out to be.  Most of you know my strong suspicions, but as I have always said, until its finally out of the bag, your guess is as good as mine.

I am hearing more and more rumblings that they are on the move.  Yesterday I received an email from a HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW reader that he saw an ad for an expected Maitreya soon appearance on the Larry King show.  I missed that one, but I noticed and reprinted the Wall Street Journal online story in a recent blogspot.  I have noticed from time to time advertising space from the Share International crowd in Mother Jones Magazine.  

If these moves are being made and are serious and if Wayne Peterson is accurate about Gorbachev, then Gorbachev's New Year's Day message to the world as published in the International Herald Tribune today is significant and disturbing.  Here is the text and I thank Chris Bieber for passing it on to me.

A new international agenda 
"By Mikhail Gorbachev
"Thursday, January 1, 2009

"The year 2008 has been indelibly marked by the global financial crisis. No one predicted its outbreak or its scale; I don't think anyone knows when and how it might end.

"It is already clear that initial reassuring statements about it were irresponsible. In the coming months, the world, and world politics, will be severely tested.

"Searching for ways out of the crisis will be a difficult, agonizing process. Not all early efforts were effective. This first failure in the functioning of our fully globalized world caught us by surprise, largely unprepared.

"As I read the reports from the July Group of 8 summit meeting in Japan, it is amazing that just a couple months before the crisis erupted, world leaders seemed unaware of warning tremors. The summit was a routine gathering. Its very format - the way it was prepared and conducted - seems outdated. We need a new vision of global political leadership, a new willingness to work together in this globalized world. Politicians are lagging behind the events.

"The crisis in the Caucasus in early August was a bolt from the blue. Any war, even a short one, is always a failure of politics and policy. The Georgian leadership's military misadventure spelled disaster for thousands of Ossetians, Georgians and Russians; it also highlighted the absence of an effective security system in Europe for preventing and resolving conflicts.

"Trouble hovers over other continents, too. Civil strife in Congo, Sudan and elsewhere in Africa has cost thousands of lives. The terrorist attacks on Mumbai were more than just a tragic reminder of the threat posed by terrorism: They also raised the issue of the responsibility of the state on whose territory this large-scale attack had been prepared. The situation in Afghanistan seems dismal. The Middle East remains a tinderbox. On top of it all, piracy has made a comeback, straight out of the dark ages.

"The flows of migrants, social unrest in many countries (including some that are far from poor), the recent problems with contaminated food supplies, massive human rights violations - the list of the world's ills can go on and on.

"There is an increasing sense of a world in turmoil, further aggravated by the crisis of the world economy.

"Talking to people in different countries, again and again I hear these questions: What is happening? What is in store? Why have the world's political leaders failed to address effectively the old and new threats?

"These are legitimate questions. To answer them, we must look at the underlying causes of recent events.I am convinced that the root cause of the current widespread upheaval is the inability and even unwillingness of political leaders to correctly evaluate the situation after the end of the Cold War and jointly chart a new course.

"The "winner's complex" - the fanfare of triumph sounded by the West after the Soviet Union left the international arena - obscured the fact that the end of the Cold War was not a victory for one side or one ideology. It was instead a common achievement and a common challenge, a call for major change.

"But why change if, as Western politicians believed, all was fine? They would continue to lead the rest of the world with their unfailing doctrine of free markets and alliances like NATO, which were ready and eager to assume responsibility for peace in Europe and beyond.

"Payback came in 2008.

"We will likely continue to pay for misguided thinking in the years to come, unless we have the courage to look at things honestly and rethink our approach to world affairs.

"Throughout the world, there is a clamor for change. That desire was evident in November, in an event that could become both a symbol of this need for change and a real catalyst for that change. Given the special role the United States continues to play in the world, the election of Barack Obama could have consequences that go far beyond that country.The American people have had their say; now all will depend on whether the new president and his team measure up to the challenge.

"The U.S. presidential election was followed by another consequential event: The G-20 summit meeting in Washington foreshadowed a new format of global leadership, bringing together the countries responsible for the future of the world economy. And more than just the economy is at stake.

"In and of itself, the fact that the G-8 leaders were joined as equal partners by the leaders of China, India and Brazil and almost a dozen other countries was a recognition, perhaps a reluctant one, that the economic and political balance in the world had changed. It is now a given that a world with a single power center, in any shape or guise, is no longer possible. The global challenge of a financial and economic tsunami can only be met by working together.

"A new concept is emerging for addressing the crisis at the national and international levels. The steps now being contemplated seem better suited to the needs of a global world than the previous approach, based on the hope that the market will eventually take care of itself.

"If current ideas for reforming the world's financial and economic institutions are consistently implemented, that would suggest we are finally beginning to understand the importance of global governance. Such governance would render the economy more rational and more humane.

"This is a daunting challenge, not only to the world's economy. Yet it can be met. We need to encourage equitable dialogue, democratize relations among nations and push back militaristic tendencies in politics and thinking. This amounts to a new agenda for international politics.

"Mikhail Gorbachev, the last leader of the Soviet Union, is president of the International Foundation for Socio-Economic and Political Studies in Moscow.

The times are serious indeed.  Stay tuned!



Comments: 1 – 200 of 209 Newer› Newest»
Happy New Year!


The more I see of Gorbachev's involvement on the European stage, the more I am reminded of the books by Anatoliy Golitsyn entitled NEW LIES FOR OLD and THE PERESTROIKA DECEPTION

NEW LIES FOR OLD: the communist strategy of deception and disinformation.- Book Reviews

National Review, Sept 7, 1984 by Arnold Beichman
Solana to lead EU delegation to Gaza

"The Technocracy and the Genetic Engineering of Humanity"

URL to article:
The Propehet Jeremiah had much to say about the destruction of Gaza.

I report it here Sic Transit Gloria Mundi: Gaza - Destruction of Biblical Proportions

Constance, I think that you are being purposely misleading when you insist on claiming that The Wall Street Journal published a story on Maitreya's imminent appearance. That's simply not true. picked up and published verbatim a PRESS RELEASE that was sent out by PR Newswire. Marketwatch is indeed part of the Wall Street Journal network, but MANY other sites and networks (including one dedicated just to soccer: also picked up the press release and published it verbatim. Reprinting a press release is not at all the same as reporting on a story. The announcement was essentially an advertisement. To attribute it solely to the WSJ gives the false impression that there is some deeper sinister significance because the announcement appeared in a leading financial journal. It's far less scary to say that a Spanish-language football site carried the press release, I guess. And Share International buys ads in many publications including Mother Jones and Whole Life Times. So what?
"The announcement was essentially an advertisement"

I agree. But I don't think that the big msm outlets mindlessly pick up these press releases just because they are hurting for content. They decide what gets disseminated on the popular level. A press release, for instance, railing against the evils of abortion would not have been repeated Ad nauseam, over and over again, in multiple outlets. Maybe - a big maybe - it would have appeared at the press release site (forget the url) ... but that's about it.
Nadie Cun, aka Nipsy Russell, must be a Maitreya follower. Nipsy, I mean Nadie is one odd fellow. Look at his blog.
Gorbachev is certainly correct in "No one predicted its [market crash] outbreak or its scale", and perhaps no one "knows when and how it might end", but I bet he knows how its supposed to end, and he knows how and why it happened.

Gorbachev can't not know what caused the financial collapse. If Henry Lamb knows, then Gorby knows, and we have no excuse for not knowing if we've been paying attention. In October Henry published The Obama-Ayers-ACORN-Bailout connection. This crisis is very germane to the end game plan, which is pretty obvious when we consider the timing. Greenspan's Epiphany is likewise most significant in that it Signals the End of Individualism, which is very necessary to the collective.

In 1902 a group of wealthy people formed the Pilgrim Society in Britain and the U.S. They were what many would call the money changers. They are heavily involved in finance and banking. They are the "World Money Power", but they are only players in a much larger game, all of it pointing back to the British Commonwealth.

It is my belief that it is the aim of the Pilgrims to bring to fruition, Sir Francis Bacon's "vision" of America's role in establishing their Brave New World.

The story and links starts with the Pilgrims, Zionism and the New Age. Don't miss the part about Walter Hines Page. The anonymous author of The Union Jack laid the foundation of this story back in 1970. Chapter 3 which was assumed "missing" is posted on Its also in the complete version that I found. Chapter 3 in particular implicates the Pilgrims, although it doesn't mention them by name. It basically traces Communism, Zionism and Fundamental Christianity to a British conspiracy which in my opinion is congruent with the facts, and completes the connection back to Sir Francis Bacon's vision.
Nadie Cun,

I am not misleading anybody, intentionally or unintentionally. I said the article was published by the Wall Street Journal's ONLINE service which is true.
As I recall, I put a picture of it on my blogspot.

Well, I must admit I had fun looking at the photos at Nadie Cun's blogspot. I'm not sure about his ideology, motivation, or religion BUT I hope my hair is combed and I have not overeaten when I am before his grooving camera! Loved the Cracker Barrel groovers!

The significance of September 11, 2001 was proclaimed by the British Israel World Federation Movement in it's December 1939 issue of Destiny Magazine., "...the date of the new moon herlding the Feast of Trumpets ushering in the Millenium, at 6000 years of Great Pyramid chronology... ...Prophecy Concerning the British Empire and America,...". Refer to my Gateway To America's Destiny for additional information on the relevance of the attacks on the twin towers, pyramid prophecies, etc.

Find it on page 2. LINK
Henry Lamb deserves lots of credit for the work he has done. Among other things, he worked tirelessly to derail the Law of the Sea Treaty first time around.

Was just checking space weather this morning and found these beautiful photos...reminded me of the signs of the times...

Truhin's pillars:

Also see

Christmas Tree Cluster:

Solar Flares disrupt International Space Station:

Obviously there’s much more going on around us than just that which is being reported in the news (or posted on this blog).

And for those with time on there hands, here’s a fun and relatively “neutral” (not too much of the little green aliens stuff) website devoted to space agency cover-ups, documented and undocumented anomalies, and speculation about such things as the “Zone of Exclusion” and what it's used for:
Nice going there oldmanofthesky, a little levity with Astral phenomena and reversion back to conspiracy theory.
Bobby Garner,

In 1902 a group of wealthy people formed the Pilgrim Society in Britain and the U.S. They were what many would call the money changers.

Have you ever read Professor Carroll Quigley's books entitled TRAGEDY AND HOPE and THE ANGLO-AMERICAN ESTABLISHMENT?

The following is from TRAGEDY AND HOPE:

There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups, and frequently does so. I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960's, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few of its policies (notably to its belief that England was an Atlantic rather than a European Power and must be allied, or even federated, with the United States and must remain isolated from Europe), but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known. [Pg. 950.]

The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy. [Pg. 1247-1248.]

The Wholeness Principle
by Anna Lemkow
Dynamics of Unity Within Science, Religion and Society 1995
Quest Books The Theosophical Society

Chasing fog is what this blog has been doing for a long time. Going off on little tangents that distract from the main issue. A website here, a news clipping there, an argument between factions of Christianity, Readers and posters have become so disoriented that now they are looking for pickings at odd conspiracy websites. As has been reported, there are over 7,000 of those sites, no one will run out of distracting material.

Meanwhile academics who have accepted New Age beliefs have been churning out serious books which push academia in their direction.

The above is one such book. The author has degrees and worked at the UN in the area of Economics and Social Development. The book has eight pages of references and is very pro New Age.

The Theosophical Society has its philosophical side, but members of the society have also been working for very specific political and cultural changes as shown by the above book. Lucis Trust has the Alice Bailey books, but also has the Foster Bailey books which outline political plans.

There are many posters and readers here with good research skills. What is needed to compete with New Age writers is in some way to focus around the goals of the blog. If the goal is to warn others about the New Age movement, we need some thought about the best way to do that. Scattering our efforts leads to nothing helpful.
Anonymous 11:21 -
I find that an astute observation - as of late.

Niki Raapana told me that Gorbachev has played significant roles in the Communitarian networks. I know he has played tremendous roles in the New Age ones. I wonder if he perceives himself as one of the "masters" of er, ah "wisdom" . . .?

Anon, Doug,

I concur there is nothing like being vile to get your point across, or flooding the page with posts or non-sensical arguments. This should really get some one to listen to your point of view. (he says sarcasticly)
8:12 am LOL
The things about Henry Lamb I questioned"

1. I made several attempts to reach him in the early 1990s and beyond. No phone calls were ever returned although I am fairly certainly he had to be knowledgeable of my books and work.

2. His alleged relationship with Unification Church funded interests.

Looking at Gorbachev, Communitarianism, Javier Solana as components of the New Age scene is HARDLY CHASING FOG. Moreover the "serious academics" anonymous cites have generally specialized in minimizing the New Age Movement. Take for example J. Gordon Melton and Carl Rasch who once was on the right track but lately has gone off in the direction of promoting "emergent Christianity." I smell some attempted diversion and dissension here.

I have given serious warnings on the New Age Movement since 1981. Now that they are achieving serious power on a political level, we are told to pay no attention to that? It is NOT hard to document that there is influence at the global scene -- witness Robert Muller, Maurice Strong -- prior to that Donald Keys (who appears to have literally disappeared) and Norman Cousins who had easy entree to American presidents, foreign ministers, and popes alike.

But to ignore the biblical and prophetic dimensions of this, I cannot do. It's going to happen sometime -- this may or may not be that time -- but I will not silence those drawing the obvious parallels.

Hitler thought he was the Aryan messiah -- millions believed -- Hitler successfully infiltrated. Was Hitler the ultimate one? No! Did that make him any less dangerous? No, no, no!

Maybe casting astrological charts might be keeping you from seeing the entire picture? Think about that in connection with the Torah warnings as set forth in Deuteronomy 18!

Actually Bobby,

I graduated quite high in my class, thank you! I think you're using that Bible quote to justify some unfounded conspiracy theory regarding the Zionist movement. I have yet to have anyone convince me of such a thing. Niki makes a convincing argument regarding communitarianism. I also am unconvinced about Freemasons being bent on taking over the world.

David in B.C.
Javier Solana has been looked at since 1995, piece by piece, but not as a unit that I can find since looking here. Lemkow's book has eight pages of references, all in one place. Maybe there is a purpose in bringing up each reference individually and getting all excited by it, but I don't know what it is.

New Age leaders are so far ahead of any opposition to their movement it is frightening. I was only trying to suggest another approach to fighting them. If what I suggested doesn't work, maybe someone else has a better idea.
Anonymous 1:15 P.M.,

I once asked Constance if she had considered producing a DVD on the New Age, Global Governance etc. {not a slide show). When she did reply, she said she had never considered producing one commercially???? I think there are enough here, including myself that would contribute financially to that? I think its necessary to produce materials for those of the world completely in the dark about these matters. We are not to place a candle under a bushel.
An opening paragraph today at EUreferendum.

"One of the problems about writing intelligently about any subject is that situations which emerge as the hystérie du jour are invariably far more complex than the drive-by media allow for. In many instances, what appear to be the primary issues identified are of less importance and, very often, miss the point entirely."
DECEMBER 29, 2008


In Moscow, Igor Panarin's Forecasts Are All the Rage; America 'Disintegrates' in 2010


MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.

Igor Panarin
In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."

Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.

But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.....
P.S. Pay special attention to the map accompanying the Wall Street Journal article above.
Here is something interesting:

From the BBC:


By David Willey BBC News, Rome
Have mercy. I can't believe what I've missed in two short days! Hard to catch up, but trying.

This Gorbachev quote is one of the most disturbing that I've read in a while. Chilling info. Thanks so much for your diligence.

By His Grace,
In light of Constance's current blog posting:
"Gorbachev's latest call for a New World Order"
I'm going to re-post:


2009 State of the World
Forum to be held November 12-14, 2009 Washington D.C. Hilton Washington.


of particular interest to me regarding the upcoming forum is it's unabashed highlighting of the significance of the election of Barack Obama for ushering in "a new era in human affairs".

Please take the time to read the CALL in its entirety:


Lester Brown, Founder, Earth Policy Institute, World Watch Institute

Jean Houston, mythologist, philosopher and researcher in human capacities, long regarded as one of the principal founders of the human potential movement . Ms Houston for this blog's readers shold need no introduction. Nor should Ervin Laszlo.

Ervin Laszlo, President, The Club of Budapest; Founder and University Chancellor, The Institute at GlobalShift University, WorldShift Network, The Jerusalem Peace Academy - JPA Board

Amory ( Rocky Mountain Institute Cofounder with Hunter) & Hunter Lovins (Natural Capitalism Solutions, Time Magazine 2000 Hero of the Planet)

James Quilligan, - Centre for Global Negotiations, Launcher of Global Marshall Plan Initiative

Paul Ray - Sociologist; Director, Institute of the Emerging Wisdom Culture, Wisdom University; author, The Cultural Creatives.

Ken Wilber
Integral Theory and founder of Integral Life.

Caroline Myss, Author of five New York Times bestselling books, including Sacred Contracts, The Interior Castle, The Anatomy of the Spirit; founder, Caroline Myss Education Institute.

For another Networked strand of the global web please see

NEXTNOW Collaboratory and it's collaboration with Edgar Mitchell/Institute of Noetic Sciences:

Constance, please take a peak at this very short Global Mind Shift Video from the
NextNow Collaboratory site (link above)
( CAREFUL all, video becomes a bit mesmerizing )

Along with the usual repetitive message the ending shot with it's three interlocked circles placed in a head shot silhouette image. Reminds me very much of the symbol/logo for
The World Development Endowment Foundation -Rudi


WDEF Home page:
Several good articles on LifeSite today...

"How Catholic priests and Professors Helped Turn Kennedys From Pro-Life to Pro-Abortion"
[an issue we discuss here in Iowa re: Tom Harkin]

"Licensing proposal could require lawyers to endorse homosexuality"

"UK Environment minister Sammy Wilson: I still think man-made climate change is a con"

...among others.

French Pres. Sarkozy persuades Spanish P.M. Zapatero to co-chair new governing council of the single currency states (eurozone):

Off topic (sorry)

I'm sure everyone here know Joyce's view about this subject.

Here is another perspective:

Please note: I am not necessarily endorsing this writer's view--rather, I am offering it for your discernment, mainly so the readers here can see that Joyce is not the sole authority on this issue--and does NOT speak for the "Jewish Community" although she goes to considerable lengths at this blog to weave the illusion that she does.
To Primegood:

Welcome back to this blog.

I did a web search to learn more about Zionism and came across the definitive (maybe or maybe not) explanation of it from Wikipedia:

Zionism is an international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra'el, "the Land of Israel"), and continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.[1]

Zionism is partly based upon strong historical ties and religious traditions linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel, where the concept of Jewish nationhood first evolved somewhere between 1200 BCE and the late Second Temple era (i.e. up to 70 CE).[2][3] The modern movement was mainly secular in its origins, beginning largely as a response by European Jewry to antisemitism across Europe.[4] It is a branch of the broader phenomenon of modern nationalism.[5] At first one of several Jewish political movements offering alternative responses to the position of Jews in Europe, Zionism grew rapidly, and after the Holocaust became the dominant Jewish political movement.

The political movement was formally established by the Austro-Hungarian journalist Theodor Herzl in the late 19th century.[6] The movement seeks to encourage Jewish migration to the Promised Land and was eventually successful in establishing Israel in 1948, as the homeland for the Jewish people. Its proponents regard its aim as self-determination for the Jewish people.[7]

About 40% of the world's Jews now live in Israel.[8]

David in B.C.
From the same article in Wikipedia:

The word "Zionism" itself is derived from the word Zion (Hebrew: ציון, Tzi-yon‎). This name originally referred to Mount Zion, a mountain near Jerusalem, and to the Fortress of Zion on it. Later, under King David, the term "Zion" became a synecdoche referring to the entire city of Jerusalem and the Land of Israel. In many Biblical verses, the Israelites were called the people, sons or daughters of Zion.

"Zionism" was coined as a term for Jewish nationalism by Austrian Jewish publisher Nathan Birnbaum, founder of the first nationalist Jewish students' movement Kadimah, in his journal Selbstemanzipation (Self Emancipation) in 1890. (Birnbaum eventually turned against political Zionism and became the first secretary-general of the anti-Zionist Haredi movement Agudat Israel.)[9]

Certain individuals and groups have used the term "Zionism" as a pejorative to justify attacks on Jews. According to historians Walter Laqueur, Howard Sachar and Jack Fischel among others, the label "Zionist" is in some cases also used as a euphemism for Jews in general by apologists for antisemitism.[10]

Zionism can be distinguished from Territorialism, a Jewish nationalist movement calling for a Jewish homeland in Palestine. During the early history of Zionism, a number of proposals were made for settling Jews outside of Europe, but ultimately all of these were rejected or failed. The debate over these proposals helped to define the nature and focus of the Zionist movement. This movement was highly motivated by the fact that many Jews did not feel safe in Europe after heavy persecution.

David in B.C.
Now, on to the current topic...

I think from the tone of what Gorachev is saying is that he is somewhat believeing or hoping Obama is this Maitreya. If Constance never mentioned who wrote this, I would think it was more drivel from Share International.

I was watching CNN and caught part of an interview of both Barack and Michele Obama on the Situation Room. Could this be it?

David in B.C.
David in B.C.

I noticed a comment on Young Grasshopper's blog today-that the Obamas will be on Larry King live Saturday and Sunday at 8.

Larry King seems more likely in view of the email that Constance received.
Dear Rudi,


Constance the beleaguered
In fairness to Joyce, it is obvious she is speaking as somebody into whatever type of Messianic Judaism she is currently believing. I have not seen her claim to speak for Jews -- she has made her beliefs known on her interpretation of the Torah. If you want to draw distinctions between Joyce's interpretations of Judaism and your own, you are certainly free and even encouraged to do so. Let's, however, leave the insults out. Let's also try to be as concise as possible on both sides of this dispute which I hoped had died with the old year.

" . . . it also highlighted the absence of an effective security system in Europe for preventing and resolving conflicts. Mikhail Gorbachev excerpt from posted article.

This is truly fascinating to me. This statement by Gorbachev could be another effective weapon in Solana's toolbox to help him bid for total EU power -- more than the considerable ones he already possesses.

Stay tuned!

Henry Lamb seems to have a one track mind, and its focused entirely on agenda 21 sustainability. When I questioned him about why he never mentioned Communitarianism, he said he'd never heard of it. Then a couple of weeks later he wrote an article on it, often quoting from Niki's source material, but he said that WND removed the links.

I think when its viewed in the context of my perspective, it fits very well into the "change" dynamic.

I distrust anyone who is in a position to know so very much more than they ever tell, and there are many of them. Generally they are the more high profile types. Most of them are trying to make a living from their work, and that has to interfere with their objectivity. However, we should consider the information, just maybe not in the context in which its presented. I thought Lamb's rich documentation in the case I cited was sufficient to prove his point in spite of its obvious political bent.
Hi Rudi,

Thanks for the Global Mind Shift tape link. I listened to it and was startled to hear what I think might be the voice of Paul N. Temple himself. If so, the links between Doug Coe's Fellowship Foundation and the extremely New Age Institute of Noetic Sciences are even more pronounced. Global Mind Change and Global Mind Shift are names under which IONS does business.

I have listened to many tapes acquired at no small expense of Paul Temple and if the voice is not his, it is a virtual soundalike. The militancy of "global mind change" is clear. That is the change we must avoid if we are here for the "hour of temptation to come upon all the earth."


This "global mind Change" is for us to worship the earth and its hi-jackers!

Here is a link to an IONS report -- they are now issuing the "global mind shift" reports annually. This is the 2nd in their series.

"January 2, 2009
Israel set to begin ground war against Hamas in Gaza . . .."

Could this possibly be the start of year 3 of the prophesied 3 1/2?

Just wondering and remembering Herb's research . . .
Of interest: Amnesty International is very much part of the New Age scene and was on that scene prominently with Lucis Trust, Donald Keys and all when I first discovered the Movement for myself in 1981. I just found this on line about their current stance vis a vis the Israeli - Hamas conflict:

"Amnesty berates 'lopsided' US position on Israel
"NEW YORK - AMNESTY International on Friday berated the US government over its 'lopsided' support for Israeli attacks on Gaza and urged Washington to suspend weapons deliveries to Israel.

"Amnesty International USA is particularly dismayed at the lopsided response by the US government to the recent violence and its lackadaisical efforts to ameliorate the humanitarian crisis in Gaza,' the rights group said in a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice."

Where's Dorothy?
Constance writes:

"I have not seen her (Joyce) claim to speak for Jews"

With all due respect Constance I sincerely doubt you have read most let alone all of Joyce's posts.

That would be nearly a full-time job in itself.

Dorothy can probably fill you in, offline, about Joyce's own claims about herself if you really want to know.

With regard to your plea for brevity -- apart from Joyce, everyone on this blog is, more or less, consistently concise.
Dear Constance,

I'm just reading the days comments here and I was struck by your comment of 1:05. I'm guessing that you were responding to the anonymous poster of 11:21, who said,

"There are many posters and readers here with good research skills. What is needed to compete with New Age writers is in some way to focus around the goals of the blog. If the goal is to warn others about the New Age movement, we need some thought about the best way to do that. Scattering our efforts leads to nothing helpful."

I think anyone who has spent any time on this blog can identify who that poster was simply through writing style. That poster, I believe, feels hurt and offended that something she has fought very hard to prevent has suddenly seeped into this blog. And I believe that she has decided to not sign her name for many reasons. I feel very badly for her, but I want to say that I was not that poster even though I side with her on the issue that offended her.

In your comment of 1:05 you said:
"Maybe casting astrological charts might be keeping you from seeing the entire picture? Think about that in connection with the Torah warnings as set forth in Deuteronomy 18!"

I can only think that you were referring to me with that comment as a result of the research that I have been doing on my blog recently. Or perhaps because of the link I left yesterday to Obama's astrology chart which is utter nonsense, of course. I know lawyers have to read through things very quickly as part of their time constraints, but if you had read my comment carefully I explained that I had no interest in the astrology aspects of the article. I was interested only in the author's reaction to "Dreams 0f My Father", not the astrological chart.

I certainly hope I am wrong about this, as in reading between the lines I feel that you infer that I am dabbling in astrology and divination, and that is a very serious accusation. If, as a result of my taking pictures of Venus the other night, and discussing demons, you think I am
"casting astrological charts", I can assure you that your assumption is incorrect.

We all have areas that interest us, in so far as we are trying to do good works for the Kingdom of God, which certainly seems to be at hand.

Just as in the Book of Jude, the author is eager to write about salvation, he also felt that must instead warn his readers about immoral men who were probably Gnostics. I have been trying to provide my readers with evidence from my research that there is going to be a massive deception that is going to come as a result of the unprecedented demonic activity that is increasing on the earth at an alarming rate. It is very obvious from the movies and books that are currently on the market, or coming out shortly, that unsuspecting people are going to be taken in by much of this garbage. I know for a fact that "Angels and Demons" is coming out this spring, and it will undoubtedly rip apart the Catholic church. I am hopefully laying some groundwork for those reading my blog who have unwittingly developed an unhealthy interest in these things. If you read my blog carefully, you'll know that I am explaining that the origins of these signs and wonders, predicted in Revelations, are going to be demonically inspired. I love Jesus with all my heart and I truly hope that I have misunderstood your comment and my suspicions that it was meant for me.

I thanks you for all the good work you have done. It is amazing. I am unable to keep track of all the EU activities and associations that you keep track of. So I am just trying my best with my own talents and observation skills to try to anticipate where the enemy is headed next-in order to forewarn people and hopefully lead them to the right path.

In my life I have been a musician, an artist and a dancer- these areas of the arts in which I have some expertise have helped me see things that others may overlook. I don't believe I am dabbling in the occult anymore than Farmer, who also has an artistic temperament , is dabbling in the occult with his blog and posts. If I am wrong about my suspicions I apologize profusely.

I pray that God is guiding me on that journey.


I will save you a little legwork by quoting a salient excerpt from Joyce's latest post on the previous thread:

"The Catholic Church made a "religion" that would be unrecognizable to the people that they claim it is based on. Catholics do confess Jesus, but He is not the same one that I read about in the Scriptures. They do believe in His death and resurrection, but have added much to that which we cannot even come close to identifying in the Scriptures upon a careful reading.

I've been studying the Bible for many years and am hard pressed to find the doctrines of Catholicism in the Scriptures that I read, which leads me to believe that the founders created a "new religion". God never asked us to do this."

This is far from the worst thing Joyce has written about Catholicism (and don't even get me started on some of the things she has written about Judaism).

If you really expect the "squabbling" on your blog to stop, allow me to kindly suggest that you will need, at a minimum level, to accept that Catholic readers are unlikely to sit back silently in the face of this kind of provocation, no matter how much you wish that they would do so because it would make your life easier.

Once you've accepted this common-sense threshold reality, it is up to you to decide how best to bring "peace" to this blog, if true peace and brotherhood are what you genuinely want.
From Reuters (01/02/09):

Governors of five U.S. states urged the federal government to provide $1 TRILLION in aid to the country's 50 states to help pay for education, welfare and infrastructure as states struggle with steep budget deficits amid a deepening recession.

The governors of New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Ohio and Wisconsin -- all Democrats -- said the initiative for the two-year aid package was backed by other governors and follows a meeting in December where governors called on President-elect Barack Obama to help them maintain services in the face of slumping revenues.
God bless you, anonymous 10:12 PM, and may you never, ever shut up.
Young Grasshopper,

I MOST ASSUREDLY was not referring not referring to you. I have feelings too and I rather suspect that "anonymous" who is not all that anonymous to me has thin skin and expects me to have elephant hide. About time I showed I was not spineless.

I disagree profoundly with Joyce on her interpretation of Catholic theology, but at least she didn't abandon Jesus -- I suspect she will be rather surprised to run into Catholics in heaven and they might be equally surprised to run into her. So let's all try to get along!

It's my blogspot

IF somebody wants to start a blog and ban Catholics, that's their privilege

If somebody wants to start a blog and ban somebody who dislikes Catholic theology, that's their privilege

If somebody wants to start a blogspot and ban Messianic Jews, that's their privilege

But I don't plan to countenance calling Messianic Jews (no matter how winded or contentious) "Scientologists"

I don't plan to accommodate the Bro Eric's and their ilk who call for discrimination against and even slaughter of Catholics

Joyce had strong disagreements with you all, but I have no intention of throwing her off unless she resorts to some of the nasty tactics used against her, i.e. the uncalled for "Scientology" accusation or "paid by the word"

The Catholics on this blogspot have done an extremely able job of defending themselves. We don't have to name call or accuse people of being in New Age cults, i.e. Scientology.

No body doing that was seeking peace and harmony on this blogspot forum.

If some of you want a "New World Religion" where nobody disagrees, there are zillions of websites out there happy to accommodate you. They are called names such as "United Religons," "Alliance of Civilizations," "World Parliament of Religions", etc., ad nauseum.

Hope I made myself clear and I wasn't to SPINELESS in the process. Now, let's try to get along!


Well stated, oh and your back bone is showing! lol

You appear to be using a double standard.

You object to Joyce being called a "Scientologist" yet you have absolutely no objection to Joyce herself repeatedly stating that Catholicism itself is a false cult and a New Age religion. (I won't even get into some of her statements about Judaism).

I could cite many more similar examples, but it would be a waste of time.

Constance, your hypocrisy is showing.

By the way, Constance, if you kick me off the blog, you kick me off the blog.

As you say, it's your blog. You make the rules here, and I respect that.

The "stand" you have taken tonight has caused me to lose respect for you (as you probably noted from my post above).

It's hard to say which direction you will go in the future, but from all indications it doesn't look good.
Possible yellowstone eruption?

I am still digging for further info on this. A geologist has issued a warning advising all who live within 200 miles of yellowstone to evacuate. He claims that due to recent earthquake swarms and a rise in magma levels, an eruption of a super volcanoe may be imminent.

If anyone finds anything else on this please post


One more thing Constance:

Your post tonight will make you popular with a lot of people here, but being "popular" doesn't make you courageous, and it doesn't make you right.

You, of all people, should know this. In fact, I know that you do.
The Catholics on this blogspot have done an extremely able job of defending themselves.


The reason they have had to do so, is because of your silence, and the silence of the other non-Catholic Christians at this blog, about the verbal abuse and bigotry that has been going on for months. That's a big group of "silent" people.

You allowed this situation to develop.

Like I said, ban me if you want, but until you do I will speak the truth as I see it, even if I have "no other friends left except Jesus himself."

Does the pattern sound familiar, Constance? It should.

I expect you will get all angry and indignant about this post. I suggest, preemptively, that such anger is misplaced and should have been directed at the individuals who continue to peddle the religious bigotry you have passively allowed to infest this blog.

A fact: the "pushers" of the religious bigotry at YOUR blog are neither Jewish nor Catholic.

OK, get all angry at me now, and then your non-Catholic followers here will give you "Atta Boys."

Like I said, it will make you popular, Constance, but it does not make you right.


I may have used too strong a word here and for this I apologize. I don't know offhand whether Joyce has actually "stated" that Catholicism is a false cult and a New Age religion, but she has most certainly implied it strongly, on numerous occasions.

She has however, posted some outright lies about the Catholic religion, and made claims about Catholics who post here which are false. If necessary, I will document these statements and forward them to you.

As I said, if you want to ban me then say so, and you will NOT hear from me again on this blog.
Joyce has made, as far as I am concerned INACCURATE statements about Catholics. That may be her honest belief. That does not amount to a LIE. Only God can judge Joyce on that one as only God can judge your present state of mind. There is a big difference between an intentional LIE and a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION. You have been pretty free about tossing out ugly epithets such as "Scientologist" and "Liar."

Like I said, you seem to have very thin skin and expect some of the rest of us to have elephant hide.

Insults also have been directed against Rudi. From time to time Rudi and I have disagreed as Paul and I have disagreed and now you and I disagree.

There is a rule for lawyers in practice and Lord knows we disagree just about all of the time, but the rule of practice which we are expected to maintain is CIVILITY!
"Civility" does not mean compromise -- but it does mean expressing our disagreements in relatively polite terms -- not ad hominem arguments or just blurting out LIAR. There are times "Liar" is appropriate, but I do not think the words were justified against Joyce, at least from what I have read. I think Joyce believes what she writes. I also think much of what she writes is in error, e.g. her stated beliefs that the Catholics worshiping a "different Jesus," her denial of the Trinity, and others. But to call Joyce a Scientologist when you have absolutely no proof of same is reckless slander.

You have made so many valuable contributions, but your perceived role of "bad cop" can go only so far before it taints the tone of the board so just everybody is afraid to post here who does not fit your little mode.

I have no intention of banning you either, but I will from now reluctantly use my prerogative to delete posts that I think are more inflammatory than factual.

"My hypocrisy is showing" . . . Your lack of logic is showing. Joyce having an opinion about the Catholic faith being a false religion, is in no way analogous to you calling Joyce a Scientologist. You had absolutely no fact basis -- other than just plain personal dislike -- to call Joyce a Scientologist.

The Catholics on this board ably defend themselves and that's what makes the board healthy and the discussions lively.

We can have lively discussions without having nasty ones.

Moreover, you are perfectly free to use the wonderful "collapse comments" section and skip right past Joyce.

I have had even local people tell me that they skip right past Joyce and her biggest protagonist because both writers make her stomach turn.


It is pretty clear from reading the posts (all on the previous thread) that these references to Joyce as a Scientologist are all satirical.

I think the "throw all Catholics into a FEMA camp" one was too, to be honest with you.
“About time I showed I was not spineless.”

Spineless? Au contraire!
I supported your efforts with my own since I first met you back in 1981 or was it '82. I would do it again under the circumstances because you are brilliant and you fought a great battle against the very dangerous New Age movement.

However you've moved in a new direction, one I can't follow. I tried to talk with you privately several times before I went public with my comments.

A good bit of advice is that we can't change anyone, we can only change ourselves. I'm taking that advice and stepping away rather than continuing to waste time teaching people who are not here to learn but rather to influence. I do this very sadly. I'm doing it publicly because I don't want others guessing why I've stopped posting. If anyone has any questions, I can be reached at

I'll continue to read the blog and continue to fight the influence of the New Age movement, but elsewhere.

Dorothy, are loved for the unique and brilliant woman and scholar that you are far, far more than you could ever possibly realize.

I forgot to add the most important part to my 6:44 comment:


I appreciate the clarification. That beings said, anonymous 10:15 said:

"If you really expect the "squabbling" on your blog to stop, allow me to kindly suggest that you will need, at a minimum level, to accept that Catholic readers are unlikely to sit back silently in the face of this kind of provocation, no matter how much you wish that they would do so because it would make your life easier."

I have sat back and felt hurt many, many times by the many subtle innuendos and outright assaults on the evangelicals here. I have not responded in the vicious manner that others here feel justified in using, although I have felt persecuted many times on this blog as a result of my evangelical beliefs.

Last night on the previous thread, after posting a pro-Catholic link that addressed the issue of faith and works, one of the Catholics here attacked me with this:

"Boy, you are one "messed up" woman. Is that why you have belonged to so many different religions in your life time?

At least we Catholics are confident in what we believe. Now, if we could just get rid of the "slime" on this blog that keeps attacking us!"

If JD is correct, and the volcano at Yellowstone National Park is erupting, this may very well be the end. The last time that the volcano erupted, it is believed that it triggered the last Ice Age. I do not wish to spend the last months or years of my life taking this kind of abuse , especially since it was not provoked.

I was attacked by Paul a few months ago, as a result of his erroneous thinking that I was the anonymous poster that was assaulting him. He did apologize and I was very grateful for that. At the time, I asked you if you would consider dis-allowing anonymous posting, or install some type of security here. You did nothing, and the spirit of hatred and attack here has continued.

There is obviously a very demonic spirit on this blog, and I do not wish to be brought down any further by its insults, and attacks on my own belief system as well as my character.

Thanks for all that you have done.

But you simply have not done enough to curb the malignancy that has been allowed to thrive here.

I am totally disgusted with how certain people on this blog treat others here. I hope, if this volcanic threat is real, that people wise up and repent of their vicious actions.

I too, am done contributing here. My friends will hopefully continue to stay in touch by email.

In Him,
I have recently started listening to Constance's radio show and reading the postings on the blog. I can't tell all of you how valuable this has been to me.

I really was not aware of everything that has happened in recent years in the New Age Movement.

Please don't stop posting and doing your research because I am sure there are others out there that read and never post. To be honest I don't know enough about the New Age, to post.

I understand that there are different ideas on religion but I think of this site as being informative on the New Age.
I really look forward every day to seeing the new research with the related websites to explore.

Please get along and not stop with the information.

A major problem here is that the blog comments have become EXTGREMELY monotonous. Constance provides great subject material which appears to go largely ignored. Why?

This is a great forum for exchange of information and yes, ideas. But, looking over the threads for the past several months, the same old, same old topic continues.

It is proper to share one's faith--with grace. Once someone rejects those ideas to continue on and on is badgering and the blog then becomes distracted to the point its not worth visiting.

Now come on folks, Constance is providing good information here. We need to pay attention to the information. Winning souls is important, but if that is the purpose here then why not create your own blog, attach it to your screen name, and provide your message of salvation there?

It's time for people to grow up and behave as adults and show some respect here.

Your hatred of Joyce was pathological. Then you transferred same to me -- I was concerned in the direction you were taking the board. You ridiculed legitimate inputs Rudi and Joyce made on New Age research. I tried unsuccessfully to reach you (I got your son) during the time I was going over Niki's research which incidentally tallied with concerns you had long expressed to me about Barack Obama and Saul Alinsky.

We have been friends for too long to have an unforgiving relationship -- BUT friendship is based on mutual respect. When you started calling me spineless for not throwing Rudi and Joyce off the board and then abused personal confidences and started the "what academics have endorsed you" game, that was the last straw.

The last two weeks have been far harder on me than you -- it has been very painful to find things and not be able to pick up the phone and talk as we did before, but as my father often reminded me, "slap me once, shame on you. Slap me twice, shame on me." Dorothy, you ended up kicking me in the teeth and utterly discounting the extreme sacrifices I made over the years to get word out.

You have harmed this board. You know I have to work and cannot be on here 24/7. Young Grasshopper has been deeply impacted by your inflammatory behaviors. And I rather suspect you gave both the New Age Movement in general and Javier Solana in particular much to rejoice about in the past two weeks -- it made it one of the ugliest, saddest holiday seasons I have ever experienced.


You are such a "drama queen."

Let's see - how many times have you said "good-bye" when the going got rough?

You state: "I have felt persecuted many times on this blog as a result of my evangelical beliefs."

Please give us all an example of that "persecution."

Get a reality check. It's the Catholics and the Jews who are "persecuted" on this blog day after day.

There are at least 3 of us Catholics who have trouble just keeping up with defending ourselves against the onslaught.
I am just now viewing CNN Headline News. They are effusively plugging a project proudly supported by that network itself THE GREEN SCHOOL. It is thoroughly "holistic" / "New Age" and is using the Rudolf Steiner methods of education. Steiner was a Theosophist and headed the German Theosophical Society until he ventured out on his own Theosophical money making venture: The Anthroposophical Society, Steiner Schools and Waldorf Eduction. Steiner taught and wrote openly that "The Holy Spirit" was "the Lucifer Spirit." They featured a Balinese school this morning, but said that the project was expanding rapidly to many locations.

Maryanne, I posted the following on the 12/29 thread and am repeating it here.


To Maryanne:

I was completely unfamiliar with David MacDonald's web site before today, but I understand that even though he grew up "an atheist in a secular home" - he became a convert to the Catholic Church and has remained a devout Catholic for the past 21 years.

So, I stand corrected about my first erroneous impression of his web site.

3:48 AM


I also want to apologize for using the word "slime." I allowed my emotions to take over and realize that was absolutely uncalled for.

The main problem that I have with you, Maryanne is that you seem to "align" yourself with and/or encourage those posters who reflect an anti-Catholic "slant" on their posts. So, to be quite honest - I don't always know what to think about just WHERE you're coming from.

I am so very sad about what is happening between you two.

I can understand both sides.

I am asking God to please heal this rift between you - as all of us on this blog need the brilliant collaboration thst you have both provided as a "team" for over 26 years.

May God bless you both.
girls what's going on here? can't believe my eyes what I read...miss all of you very much and just cannot keep my eyes open until radio time and awake 10 minutes after the show is already over again and again...Hugs to all of you from Europe! farmer
God bless you, Farmer.

Maybe the rest can keep this blog from going to H - - - in a hand basket!

Is there a full moon?

What we don't want to happen here is for Satan to WIN by pitting all of us against each other.

One of the mysteries surrounding Mikhail Gorbachev has been the question of his religius beliefs.

Before the fall of the Soviet Union, Gorbachev is said to have publicly professed atheism. After the fall of the Soviet Union, rumors began to circulate about the possibility that Gorbachev was a "closet Christian."

Here are some interesting articles about Gorbachev's alleged private religious beliefs. My apologies to anyone who has already posted any of these articles. My apologies also in advance for the length of this comment. But I thought readers might be interested in seeing how Gorbachev's religious views appear to have "evolved" - whether as a "true believer" or merely for the sake of political expediency.

by Judi McLeod,

February 22, 2005

....The Kyoto Protocol, which came into effect on February 16, 2005 in a blaze of celebrations, proves the power and might of obscure Canadian, Maurice Strong.

As one of its prime architects, Strong helped lay the groundwork for Kyoto at the United Nations 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro. Under the Kyoto Protocol to that year's UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), industrialized nations are to reduce their combined emissions of six major greenhouse gases during the five-year period from 2008 to 2012 to below 1990 levels.

Never mind that Kyoto mandates reductions in carbon dioxide emissions to combat an as yet unproven global warming threat, or that the treaty is predicted to plunge nations into economic ruin.

So far, some 128-member states have ratified the accord, with the two largest countries in the world, Russia and Canada expected to follow suit.

No mean feat for a man you mostly read about on the Internet.

If Maurice Strong, depending on which day of the week it is can be found hustling in the corridors of United Nations headquarters, or ensconced in the offices of Prime Minister Paul Martin, can be the Pied Piper of Kyoto, consider the impact of his next encore.

Along with former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev, Strong is joint chairperson of something that sounds almost as vague as the Kyoto Protocol did in opening chapters. That something is called the Earth Charter Initiative.

Bringing the Earth Charter Initiative in from the ether for a closer look, it is a combination of chairmanships. The chairmanship of Gorbachev's Green Cross Organization and Strong's Earth Council chairmanship.

Both the Earth Council and Green Cross emerged from the Earth Summit Conference in Rio.

Yes, Virginia most everything that came along in the new millennium originated at Rio.

The Earth Charter intends, among other things, to replace the age-old Ten Commandments.

It's not as if Gorbachev is still the president of a faraway foreign country. With offices at San Francisco and in downtown Washington, the former leader of a communist country comes equipped with a mandate to shut down American military bases.

Strong may be almost unknown to the unwashed masses, but he's at the left hand of more than Kofi's throne.

According to Strong's own account, it was he who dragged Gorbachev out of his self-professed atheism by noticing before anyone else the Russian's affinity to "spirituality". entire article...

If anything embodies the idea that "green is the new red," this March, 2006 article from the American Thinker blog does:


American Thinker

Since presiding over the fall of Communism, Mikhail Gorbachev has moved on to a different mode for the imposition of a utopian vision on humanity. Perhaps sensing that religious impulses remain far more powerful than the dreams of Karl Marx, he is working to harness religion to environmentalism, via his new nonprofit vehicle, "Green Cross International": ...

.....As a child, Gorbachev was baptized in the Russian Orthodox Church, but professes to scientific atheism, the standard cant of Communists. It means he holds with neither religion nor Creator. He professes a Gaia impulse where "... nature is my god. Nature is sacred. Trees are my temples and forests my cathedrals ..." while also speaking against the evils of 'organized' religion. Yet he cloaks himself with the symbols of religions he renounces. Either this is schizophrenic or disingenuousness writ large. The Green Cross International is as steeped in ??naw'chash?? as can be, for it is a ruse, a ploy, a chimera masquerading to hide what it really is. It's all there in its logo. Islam, mangled Christianity, Eastern mysticism and global environmentalism married to the sword and the olive leaf. For a Lenin styled atheist that's an awful lot of religious symbolic power to invoke for one who doesn't cotton to religion. Cloaking your organization in the symbols of that which you seek to replace. We know all we need know about Mikhail Gorbachev and his Green Cross in that first he absconded with a religious order's name and symbol, and then subtly grafted onto this stolen property the fertile and influential symbols of three great religions, adding a sword and an olive leaf to the globe. Environmentalism seeks the ruin of religion, and the elevation of Gaia; replacing worship of the Creator with worship of things created. But they cannot be honest about their goal, and their logo stands as naked evidence of their chicanery for us to entire article...

More recently, on March 19, 2008, the Telegraph in the U.K. reported that Gorbachev admitted to being a Christian after he paid a visit to the tomb of St. Francis of Assissi.

March 19, 2008

Mikhail Gorbachev, the last Communist leader of the Soviet Union, has acknowledged his Christian faith for the first time, paying a surprise visit to pray at the tomb of St Francis of Assisi.

Accompanied by his daughter Irina, Mr Gorbachev spent half an hour on his knees in silent prayer at the tomb.

His arrival in Assisi was described as "spiritual perestroika" by La Stampa, the Italian newspaper.

"St Francis is, for me, the alter Christus, the other Christ," said Mr Gorbachev. "His story fascinates me and has played a fundamental role in my life," he added.

Mr Gorbachev's surprise visit confirmed decades of rumours that, although he was forced to publicly pronounce himself an atheist, he was in fact a Christian, and casts a meeting with Pope John Paul II in 1989 in a new light.

Mr Gorbachev, 77, was baptised into the Russian Orthodox Church and his parents were Christians.

In addition, the parents of his wife Raisa were deeply religious and were killed during the Second World War for having religious icons in their home.

Ronald Reagan, the former United States president, allegedly told his close aides on a number of occasions that he felt his opponent during the Cold War was a "closet believer".

Mr Reagan held deep religious convictions himself. However, until now Mr Gorbachev has allowed himself to express only pantheistic views, saying in one interview "nature is my god".

After his prayers, Mr Gorbachev toured the Basilica of St Francis and asked in particular to be shown an icon of St Francis portraying his "dream at Spoleto".

St Francis, who lived in the 12th century, was a troubadour and a poet before the spiritual vision caused him to return to Assisi and contemplate a religious life.

Even in his early days, St Francis helped the poor, once giving all of his money to a beggar. As well as spending time in the wilderness, he also nursed lepers and eventually became a priest.

"It was through St Francis that I arrived at the Church, so it was important that I came to visit his tomb," said Mr Gorbachev.

"I feel very emotional to be here at such an important place not only for the Catholic faith, but for all humanity."

He also asked the monks for theological books to help him understand St Francis's life.

Father Miroslavo Anuskevic, who accompanied the former Soviet leader, said: "He was not recognised by any of the worshippers in the church, and silently meditated at the tomb for a while. He seemed a man deeply inspired by charity, and told me that he was involved in a project to help children with cancer.

"He talked a lot about Russia and said that even though the transition to democracy had been very important

for the world, it was very painful for Russia. He said it was a country which has a great history, and also a great spirituality."

Fast forward to November 25, 2008,
to a report by CANADA FREE PRESS:


By Judi McLeod

It didn’t take former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev the proverbial New York minute to pounce on an America in distress.
Gorbachev came forward last week advising that the Obama administration needs “far-reaching `perestroika’ reforms to overcome the financial crisis and restore balance in the world.

The former Soviet leader has been trying to put wings on his dream for a worldwide-adopted Perestroika as far back as 1990, when he attended a Forum in Moscow with then-U.N. Secretary-General Javier Perez de Cuellar....

.... Less than a year ago, rumours about Gorbachev’s sudden “secret conversion” to Catholicism were reported as fact by the international mainstream media.

The rumours began circulating after Gorbachev and his daughter, Irina visited the Basilica of St. Francis in Assisi (Italy), home to the saint’s relics. Italian daily La Stampa called the event a “spiritual perestroika”.

“Over the last few days some media have been disseminating fantasies—I can’t use any other word—about my secret Catholicism, citing my visit to the Sacro Convento friary, where the remains of St. Francis of Assisi lie,” Gorbachev said. Instead he insisted that he undertook the trip, not as a pilgrim, but as a “tourist”.

“In the past he visited Orthodox monasteries in Russia and abroad, Catholic and Protestant churches, synagogues in Israel and mosques in Arab countries as well as Buddhist monasteries, but “nobody related me to this or that belief during all these years. To avoid misunderstandings I would like to say—I was atheist and I stay atheist.” (, March 24, 2008).

As recently as October 23, 1996, Gorbachev appeared on the popular Charlie Rose PBS television program, where he said:

“We are part of the Cosmos…Cosmos is my God. Nature is my God… l believe that the 21st century will be the century of the environment, the century when all of us will have to find an answer to how to harmonize relations between man and the rest of Nature…
We are part of Nature…”

And of course it would be unlikely that someone in partnership with Maurice Strong to change the 10 Commandments of Moses for the Earth Charter would be a sincere Christian entire article....

New lies for old, anyone???

Sorry if I missed it, per your 11:55 post you reffered to a project being promoted via CNN that was supported by The Green School. However in the midst of everything going on here you seem to have forgotten to list the name of this project. Please clarify this, as I (asuming others too) am interested in seeing what is being pushed via "THE MOST WATCHED NEWS NETWORK"

"The Green School" is the CNN project! I have not yet gone on line to research it. I did not get to bed until 5:30 a.m. and had to get up at 10 to help my husband get off to his destinatio. Sorry, I'm not on all engines, but I definitely watched the presentation on CNN. I assume you can fi8jnd more by goinj to their site or by googling same.

Here are links to the project CNN publicized this morning:

Green School - Bali, Indonesia | The Heart of Authentic Education Two Parrots Production's "A Day at Green School" Green School Difference, Bali Reasons for a 'Green' Tom Friedman visits... The Green School Vision. ... - 41k - Cached - Similar pages -
The Green School Vision | Green School - Bali, Indonesia Mar 5, 2008 ... This latest video is an introduction to Green School in Bali, founded by John and Cynthia Hardy. It covers topics such as our eight-hectare ...
I just don't think there is anything anyone can do about this--this is all "suppose" to happen---however it is good to be awake and conscious about all the NWO talk--and other conspiracies. If you don't want to make it a part of your life experience then don't///Abraham Hicks has a good message.
To all,

My heart is heavy to see what is transpiring here. While I can see error in all sides of this issue, I would not wish any would depart from this site. I have seen Dorothy be too harsh on well meaning posters in the past, yet I have always seen her harsh words as her passion to make sure the information posted regarding the NA was accurate.
Regarding the catholics, jews, and Joyce. I see where some would disagree with what others post at times. However, one can refute a post without resorting to personal attacks. I imagine we all have differences when it comes to our faith however we manage to get along. I understand defending ones faith, but some have taken well meaning even if inaccurate posts and turned them into a personal war. My question to all in this regard is, where does defending ones faith end and seeking out conflict begin? I ask this because some of you (not pointing fingers) are doing just that.
If you take issue with this, then maybe you should reexamine your reasoning. Some here are trying to practice loving kindness and I commend those who are, such as

Anon 12:01

I also want to apologize for using the word "slime." I allowed my emotions to take over and realize that was absolutely uncalled for.



I am so very sad about what is happening between you two

However comments such as reffering to Hopper as a "drama queen" are uncalled for. I can personally attest that Hopper toils over whether or not to participate in this blog and comments such as this are why. Maryanne, much like myself, often gets disheartened to see constant bickering and infighting amongst her FAMILY. Yes, like it or not thats what we are. If she questions why she should continue here when these issues persist, it is because she cares enough to be open about her feelings regarding the matter. If anyone has a problem with some one who cares enough about them to openly state their distain for how some treat others, that person should look within themselves and wonder what the source of this anger is. Why would one attack the person trying to moderate peace? The single individual showing forgiveness and compassion for all?
I understand Joyce's position on some of the issues she posts about. We ALL NEED to look deeper into the roots of our faith. No, I am not reffering to catholic or protestant docterine, but our hebrew roots. I am not defending any of Joyce's posts or positions but, in case one hasn't noticed ALL of our respective faiths doctrines are in error. However I hope Joyce will take heed that she could be a bit more delicate in the way she attempts to converse with others. To start a conversation telling someone they are wrong does nothing to convince someone you are right.

I have no doubt that these disagreements come out of people being passionate about what they believe. However one should ask them selves is it passion for mans doctrine or passion for the Lord and His Word, because there is a major difference. If we can boil this back down to the topics at hand and what the Word says regarding these issues we all will get along much easier.

Before anyone decides to jump on me and insist they were right in their respective arguement, I ask you to do one thing. Look around you, while you are busy insisting your right, the enemy of your soul is gathering forces all around you and they are all doing their little pagan victory dance. All because instead of focusing your attention on the one who wishes to destroy you, you were busy fighting with your brother or sister!

I am posting this as a wake up call. I love all here and simply wish for the fighting to cease. If you have an issue with what I posted, again ask yourself why. If you insist on starting an argument with me over this, feel free, but I must warn you the attempt will be fruitless, much like all of these arguements are.


Sorry I misunderstood the way you worded it.
Dear Dorothy,
I admit, I don't understand why you're leaving.
Why has your patience worn so thin?
You've been at this so very long, and now, when you know unwaveringly that the time is very critical, you find it intolerable to continue with your work here? You're respected by many here. That's been made evident each week.
So there are a few from whom you feel disrespect. Why sacrifice the whole of your contribution here on this basis alone?
You, yourself have instructed the newbies to become thicker skinned because it's not easy to get down and dirty in the business of uncovering filth and deception.
We need you to lead by example. Many people are "waking" up now, because they're scared! The economy has them scared, the earths tremors have them scared, this new administration has them scared...and they are beginning to ask the right questions because of all these things. Their ears are open- you'll have their undivided attention VERY soon!
I wholeheartedly disagree with the reasons that you've given for no longer contributing.
I'm disturbed about this because I care about you.
I know that you're capable of moving past these personal conflicts and I don't understand why these particular disagreements are the very straws that have "broken the camel's back".
I humbly ask you to please reconsider your stance.

With Deep Sincerity,
To JD (3:13 PM):

You have made some very valid points. Thank you for your input.

Just a reminder to all - that showing kindness and respect is a two-way street. It all comes down to our attitude toward others and a decision to make it work.
To Bobby Garner and All:

Re: Bobby's comment -
In 1902 a group of wealthy people formed the Pilgrim Society in Britain and the U.S. They were what many would call the money changers.

The following is a link to a site called:

It includes a good article on the Pilgrims Society and other globalist entities: (Front Page) (Introduction)

Thank you. You have echoed what I was attempting to convey.


I urge you to take to heart what SV has posted. I can not state this any better than she has and any attempt to do so would be in vain.

Thank you. You have echoed what I was attempting to convey.


I urge you to take to heart what SV has posted. I can not state this any better than she has and any attempt to do so would be in vain.
Anonymous 7:50

I will eagerly be watching. I hardly think the press release from Share International is all that amazing in its "prediction." I mean, it wouldn't be too hard to find out the positions of the planets from following some website that tracks astronomical events. And, it isn't too difficult to say some major news program would interview some prominent person within two weeks of that star. Especially when it's the biggest celebrity in the world. And I'm not talking about Hannah Montana.

David in B.C.
For a long time I chose to post anonymously because it was IDEAS mattered, not personalities. I still believe that. Personal attacks I can brush off as opinions.

The words "Ideas have consequences" are very important. While one may see an idea as something written down on paper, the reality is that individuals act toward others on the basis of ideas. Some ideas discussed by academics led to the Holocaust when they were picked up by individuals who didn't just see them as debating points. They took the ideas and used them as rationalizations for destructive behavior.

Antisemitic ideas have a long, destructive history. If mysticism and gnosticism have long histories, so does antisemitism have an equally long destructive history with themes that never change.

Simply, I can't be supportive of a place where antisemitic views are considered "just" opinions, ideas to be debated.

I like individuals as much as most people do. Friendship is important, but it must come second to living a moral life and defending moral behavior. There can be no "That guy is an adulterer, but he's cool, so what the heck."

I could care less about the nice personalities of those who sponsor anti-Catholic or Judaism hating ideas. I've never asked for anyone to be kicked off this blog. That does not mean I have to continue to support their beliefs by my presence. Antisemitic ideas are dangerous to my friends and family. Anti-Catholic ideas are dangerous to other family members. These ideas have spread throughout history like cancers.

I would no more consider antisemitic and anti-Catholic ideas as something to be debated than I would give validity to New Age ideas. They do not have to be debated over and over again, century after century before they are shown to be as evil as they are. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

BRAVO, Dorothy -

You are speaking so eloquently for so many of us here!!!
To answer your first question, "Have you read Tragedy and Hope?" I haven't read it, but I've read excerpts, reviews and quotes. Although Carroll Quigley claimed to no longer be an insider, I believe he would never have told anything which was not pre-approved.

We do not learn much from insiders and so called whistle blowers. First, we have no access to their source information, so it cannot be confirmed directly.

If we wish to know what goes on behind those closed doors, we should begin with Alice Bailey, then watch to see who is responsible for making those things happen.

In your last comment you mentioned the ISGP. I have no reason to doubt the information provided at this site, however they appear to be focused on identifying the members of secret societies, organizations and clubs, some of which is verifiable and some not. Their 'Contact' page reads, "Sorry, at the moment it's not possible to contact the author. ...there's no time to answer questions, nor for any follow-up investigating." - Joël

No one has shown how the Pilgrim Society, Freemasonry, Zionism, U.N. Agenda 21, Communitarianism, and the New Age all tie together with Alice A. Bailey being the pivotal influence behind it all as I have. I'm not saying this to toot my own horn. It is simply the fact.

They are all working the same conspiracy under the direction of World Servers. Bailey said that World Servers, Disciples, and Aspirants, would be self appointed to their roles. They would use whatever resources they had or could acquire to further the "outworking" of the "Plan". Bailey said that the objective of the Plan was the Reappearance of the Christ. Therefore, it has certain appeal to alleged Christians within the secret societies, whose influence is applied not through the secret societies, but through the churches of their choice. But Bailey's interpretation of "Christ" was such that it appealed equally to people of all religions, and secret societies don't care what religion their members follow, so they operate in all of them.

This is why many people prefer to study the secret societies rather than the activities of their members within society. No one is offended by alleged revelations of secret society proceedings. On the other hand, it is guaranteed that someone will be offended by the exposure of members outside their secret meetings. You see a lot of offense being taken here for example if some influential person happens to be Jewish or Christian.

Ask yourself, Do the Bilderberg's accomplish anything in their secret meetings? No! The accomplishments of the members all happen after they get back to their offices where they issue directives to their subordinates. All of the activities take place within the sphere of influence of the organizations they control.
I've tried to stay out of the arguing going on and don't quite understand how Constance is changing directions. I just think when someone makes a claim regarding elements of a conspiracy theory, I think people should really challenge their own beliefs. Take the North American Union notion. Listen to the counter-arguments. Maybe it's not as true as you think. Don't be like those who were panicking over Y2K. The North American Union could be a happening thing, but maybe it's not. Maybe Obama is the Antichirst, maybe he's not. Maybe he will be a mediocre president and not be as amazing as people think. I went to see him when he came to Battle Creek and I didn't see what the big fuss was. All I know, it was a nightmare getting out of there and a poorly managed event. Not only that, the dude was late and it was a hot day.

When Constance makes a claim about anything, she has some good information to back up what she's saying, at least I think.

David in B.C.
David in BC:
Thanks for wikipedia info on Zionism. I pity the poor soul who would take that as an authority.

If you want to know about Zionism look at its role in the dialectic:
"Albert Pike's plan for the Illuminati was as simple as it has proved effective. He required that Communism, Naziism, Political Zionism, and other International movements be organized and used to foment the three global wars and three major revolutions. The First World War was to be fought so as to enable the Illuminati to overthrow the powers of the Tzars in Russia and turn that country into the stronghold of Atheistic-Communism. The differences stirred up by agentur of the Illuminati between the British and German Empires were to be used to foment this war. After the war ended, Communism was to be built up and used to destroy other governments and weaken religions.

World War Two, was to be fomented by using the differences between Fascists and Political Zionists. This war was to be fought so that Naziism would be destroyed and the power of Political Zionism increased so that the sovereign state of Israel could be established in Palestine. During World War Two International Communism was to be built up until it equalled in strength that of united Christendom. At this point it was to be contained and kept in check until required for the final social cataclysm. Can any informed person deny Roosevelt and Churchill did put this policy into effect?

World War Three is to be fomented by using the differences the agentur of the Illuminati stir up between Political Zionists and the leaders of the Moslem world. The war is to be directed in such a manner that Islam (the Arab World including Mohammedanism) and Political Zionism (including the State of Israel) will destroy themselves while at the same time the remaining nations, once more divided against each other on this issue, will be forced to fight themselves into a state of complete exhaustion physically, mentally, spiritually and economically. Can any unbiased and reasoning person deny that the intrigue now going on in the Near, Middle, and Far East is designed to accomplish this devilish purpose?"
- Albert Pike

I hope I've challenged your belief.
To David in B.C. (5:18 PM):

With all due respect, David - this is between Dorothy and Constance who have known each other for over 26 years. I think the rest of us should stay out of it - and allow them both to work this out.
Dear Dorothy,
I respect your answer and I understand you.
But, if I didn't continue to spend time with the adulterous friend, then I would never have the opportunity to help him repent and turn away from adultery. Boldly stating the truth, with love, is one of the most loving acts of service that I can give. How else will they see the damage that they have done from their sin? How else will they see, first hand, God's mercifullness when He forgives?
If it weren't for the Catholics on this blog, I would have little to no knowledge of Catholicism because I have no immediate Catholic friends or family.
If I didn't know you, I would not personally know any Jew (the only Jewish friend that I had converted to Mormonism for marriage).
Your insight and opinions are valued here by me(and others), because you challenge me in areas that I would not other wise challenge myself, friend.
God will protect you, give you wisdom, insight, and keep you from those who would speak foul things against you, your faith, and the faith of your friends and family.
So, again, I ask you to please reconsider not contributing here.
Please, take time for yourself, recharge, refresh, but later come and help with the battle.
It will be intense and you know this.

Your friend,
Bobby Garner,

Re:Ask yourself, Do the Bilderberg's accomplish anything in their secret meetings? No! The accomplishments of the members all happen after they get back to their offices where they issue directives to their subordinates. All of the activities take place within the sphere of influence of the organizations they control.

I agree. In fact what you just said echoes what the French poet Charles Peguy once wrote:

"Everything begins with la mystigue and ends with la politique."

Sites like the one for which I posted the link have a value in so far as the information they contain can sometimes serve as a kind of "arrow" pointing to the place where the "secrets" - as Hannah
arendt might have put it - are being established in broad daylight.
Ah... where the secrets are "being established in broad daylight".

Look no further than your nearest politician, clergy, or community organizer. Everyone can be offended about some aspect of it, and I'm an equal opportunity offender.

Yeah, you can catch more flies with honey, and if I ever go hunting for flies, I'll try that for sure.
Bobby Garner,

If I understand you correctly,(and please correct me if I am mistaken) you appear to be saying that Alice Bailey and organizations connected to her are key. And I have no disagreement with you if only because Alice Bailey, World Servers etc. has not been a main focus of my research so you probably know light years more than I do about both.

From the point of view of the research I have done, I have come to view Bailey, etc. as the "left wing" of the New Age Movement.

However, there appears to be a "right wing" of the New Age Movement that centers on the so-called "perennialist" philosophy, so-called "traditionalism," "Catholic Freemasonry," and "esoteric Christianity" as embodied in the 19th century organization called the Hieron du Val d'Or.

Are you familiar with any of this stuff?
David in BC,

I respect the point you were trying to make, however the North American union was not the best jumping off point. It is no more conspiracy theory than the patriot act, both are very real issues we face. For proof of this I am posting a link to Vicente Fox of mexico refrencing the union and plans he and Bush have discussed such as a common currency and a trade union for all the americas. In the clip he states the hold up has been Hugo Chavez and his unwillingness to cooperate. While this clip is short a brief search of this topic will reveal much more.

This is the transcript of the Larry King show the video was from. The discussion turns to the union towards the end, but as you will read it is very real and NAFTA as many have stated was the first step.

If the former leader of Mexico is confirming even a long term plan for this Union, one would have to agree that it does exist. Even if we are only in the preperation stages.
David in BC,

Regarding church tomorrow. I will be driving a white crew cab Chevy truck with WOODROW across the wind shield. I am tall and slim and most likely will be wearing boots (cowboy), I have dark shaggy hair and an unmistakable scar on my neck. I will be with my wife who is built similar and has a bob haircut.

I look forward to our visit.

Any attempt to separate the New Age movement into factions like left and right is probably permissible, but I'm certain that you would be misled if you believed it. The New Age is the "Radical Middle", also known as the "Third Way", or in the words of Marilyn Ferguson, its the "whole road". The radical middle is evident everywhere, including political parties. Communitarianism is a Third Way movement. You probably need to browse my website to catch a glimpse of the whole picture. I am in the process of reorganizing the site, but most of my latest research can be found from my E-mail Index page. Use the Freefind site search to locate specific information.
Sign of the times,

Wow, the poor people of Indonesia can't catch a break. Two major earthquakes have been recorded off their coast in the last 24 hours. One measuring 7.3 the other 7.6, this isn't including six other quakes all in the 4 and 5 range. There is currently a Tsunami warning for the area.

I don't claim to partiality, but I think I laid out the landscape of the New Age Movement pretty accurately in THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW! Until it gets reprinted, there are used copies floating around the internet on places such as Alibris and Amazon.


Thank you for a very well said and Holy Spirit directed post! I am literally sick about the whole situation.


I am most disturbed by the innuendo. I have NEVER countenanced anti-Semitic ideas on this board AS YOU WELL KNOW. Some things you have challenged as anti-Semitic were not that at all. I recall a time when you thought those speaking out against the New Age Movement were by definition anti-Semitic because a man named Ron Miller from Lonsdale, Minnesota had a paper called Distant Drums which you were familiar with and I was not stated some of the same conclusions (cleverly leaving out the anti-Jewish aspects of the New Age Movement). You do shoot from the hip sometimes and you did have particular anger at Messianic Jews labeling it as a form of anti-Semitism.

It is innuendo that anti-Semitism was tolerated on this board and you well know it. I do know Jews who converted to Christianity but decided to practice their new faith in Messianic Jewish congregations while maintaining the same holidays as the rest of their families who were not Christian.


I feel the same. I have copies of both The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow and A Planned Deception for any one looking to read them. If one wishes to purchase them Alibris books has both online.

Thank you for the kind words. You offered a while back for me to come to your office to review some of the work you have compiled is the invitation still open?

To Bobby Garner:

I've been too tied up with the situation elsewhere on the board and if you've done this, I apologize, BUT, I asked you some hard questions about Anthroposophy and Rudolf Steiner. The arguments you advance on Zionism ARE anti-Semitic. Jews, Christians and Moslems of the non-mystical variety are the targets of the New Age Movement as you should well know if you've read Alice Bailey as carefully as you purport. One place you can look is the appendix to the Rays and the Initiations which says that Jerusalem stands for nothing of value except three dead and gone religions that deserve to die and pass away. The very essence of THE GREAT INVOCATION by Alice Bailey/Djwhal Khul is "sealing that evil away into its own and separate place,
i.e. exterminating us right after they have pitted the remaining orthodox off against each other.

I am not at all presently at ease with the posture you are advancing and I do want some answers to that question plus your obvious use of the Jehovah's Witness bible version.

Dear JD,

Invitation is still open if you can stand the mess!

This has been on Drudge for awhile, but I don't think it was posted here yet.

EU's new figurehead believes climate change is a myth

The new figurehead is the Czeck pres.

And another article-

EU denounces socialite’s carbon offset project

The EU questions a carbon footprint offset project as to whether it is all that it is touted to be.
Hmm, the urls didn't get on their whole lengths.

and the other url
stupid urls just don't show completely when i try to send them! sorry, folks... grrr
I addressed your questions about Steiner halfway down the first page of comments on the Emergent Church at 11:31 AM after you asked at 9:27PM the previous evening.

I answered your questions about my bible quotes at 2:25PM a little further down the page.

The arguments I advance on Zionism are NOT anti-Semitic, because Political Zionism is not human and it is not the religion of the Jews or anyone. Zionism is purely political. I addressed this question at 4:12 PM in comments to the London Financial Times Admits... .

LOL, I can tolerate a mess. When is best for this? Would it be possible during a weekend or just during the week? I know I ask a lot of questions, but it helps me fit it into my plans. Not only that but I have to double check everything with my wife to make sure I don't have a previous engagement that I am unaware of. lol Not to mention its a couple hour drive. Thanks, and I am praying for you as I know how strained you must feel with current turn of events here.

Obama stirs fears in Israel

I found this over at FP. It's an article regarding the current conflict in Gaza, and how the incoming administration may effect Israel's military operations there. It takes on the question that has been on my mind of late, is this the point where the US completely turns their back on Israel? It appears from the tone of the article that some in Israel may be pondering a similar question.

Sampaio calls on religous leaders to help end Gaza war.

Also from FP. The AOC is throwing in their proverbial two cents and what a surprise they want religous leaders to help end this conflict.
Has anyone seen these ads running in London? This is from October and the ads were supposed to be running now, through January and perhaps beyond. The timing is curious.

BCC News

"There's Probably No God" for city buses

URL's being cut off
I just hit enter at the point in the long url where I think it will be cut off, sometimes you have to do it more than once. Seems to fix the problem.
From WorldNetDaily (0l/03/09):

Pat Robertson, founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network, announced at his staff's annual prayer retreat that God told him Americans would embrace socialism in 2009 "in order to relieve their pain" and that the economy would rebound under an Obama administration.

"The Lord said the economy of your nation will recover," Robertson told a group assembled at Founders Inn on the campus of Regent University in Virginia Beach, Va., a university Robertson founded.

Robertson said God also declared, "The steps taken will lead to a dramatic increase in the power of government. The people will welcome socialism in order to relieve their pain. Nothing will stand in the way of a plan by Obama to restructure the economy in the same fashion as the New Deal in the '30s."

In a follow-up interview he granted to Terry Meeuwsen, his co-host on CBN's The 700 Club, Robertson added, "It will be the largest transfer of power to Washington since the '30s. But people are willing to accept it because the pain has been so bad."

Please explain how Bobby Garner's statements on Zionism are anti-semetic. While we are at it: let's define anti-semetic?

Is it racism? "anti"-culturalism? anti-religious? I've always been curious why Jewish people get a special word to explain prejudice against them, while any other type of predjudice falls under more generice definitions. I.E. racism, sexism, bigotry etc.

I've been following Bobby's work for a number of months now. I found it via Niki Raapana's work. It seems to me, from the few days I've been reading your blog, that it was a reasonably cozy "anti-new age" atmosphere here. Looks like you had internal squabbles and personality differences... But start throwing around communitarianism... and the whole place becomes "anti-semetic."

I've considered reading your "dangers of the rainbow" book. I likely will still read it. I would dare to point out that no widely published material has any TRULY threatening information in it. Otherwise it would never make it to print. Especially not in large numbers. If you were to actually find DOCUMENTS and REFERENCE MATERIALS that would damn these people according to their actions... Action would be taken against you. Being a lawyer, you could do some research on Habib Peter Kawaja, and you would see EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

-waiting for a definition of anti-semetism and and explanation of why Bobby's work reflects it.

Thank you for questioning the definition of Zionism. Who would have thought that it might mean different things to different people. Yet Merriam Webster has only one entry: " an international movement originally for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel".

I'm pretty sure that the "establishment of a Jewish national or religious community", was a political move, and Communitarian at that. And "support of modern Israel" is support for a Political Zionist nation.

Support for the ruling political party was also the standard of sanity in Communist Russia, where millions were "hospitalized" with the malady in Siberia.

But the significant difference of course, is that the Communists only demanded allegiance of their own people. Zionists demand the allegiance of the whole world.

Or, maybe they believe the whole world is rightfully theirs?
Bobby Garner and All:

Re:Any attempt to separate the New Age movement into factions like left and right is probably permissible, but I'm certain that you would be misled if you believed it. The New Age is the "Radical Middle", also known as the "Third Way", or in the words of Marilyn Ferguson, its the "whole road". The radical middle is evident everywhere, including political parties.

You are right in saying that I would probably be misled if I believed in the ACTUAL separation of the New Age Movement into factions.

Thankfully, I don't.

What I DO believe is that the so-called "separation" of the New Age Movement into "left wing" and "right wing" factions is an ILLUSION - an artificial "separation" based on the erroneous Hegelian "dialectic" which was morphed by Marx into dialectical materialism.

If you read what I posted on the dialectic a few threads back, you will know why I regard the dialectic as a philosophical mistake/error. The dialectic only "works on the ground" if the "doctrine of opposites" is true.

However, the so-called "doctrine of opposites" violates one of the axiomatic (self-evident) "first principles of philosophy" (based on common sense) according to which "a thing cannot simultaneously be and not-be in the same species."

Those who formulated the "dialectic" (a.k.a. the "algebra of revolution") merely assumed the "doctrine of opposites" on grounds they never clearly revealed to anyone else and were never able to prove from necessity.

The so-called "third way" (a.k.a. "radical middle") apparently being presented by the New Age Movement is also being peddled as the so-called "synthesis" of what has been made to appear as the "left" and "right" wings of the New Age Movement.

In fact, in the book RAVALETTE: THE ROSICURCIAN'S STORY by Paschal Beverly Randolph - which was republished around 1939 by R. Swineburne Clymer - Randolph claims to have entered into a trance that he referred to as the "sleep of sialam" and uttered a prophesy which seems to have been echoed by Albert Pike....namely ( and I am paraphrasing here) that with regard to religion, a "left wing" and a "right wing" was to be created but that both would actually be moving in a "leftward" (read "lawless) direction with the "left wing' being so much the more radical of the two that the so-called "right wing" would appear "conservative" by comparison.

In the simplest terms the "dialectic" says that SOMETHING plus NOTHING gives you a brand spanking new "THIRD SOMETHING." It doesn't. All it gives you is the "same gnostic circus with different clowns."

Politically speaking, even Gorbachev envisions a "New World Order" that is a "synthesis" between Capitalism and Communism.

But in terms of what Gorbachev envisions being "the same circus with different clowns," it was the late Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen who once asked rhetorically if, in the end, there was any difference between one regime in which the means of production were concentrated in the hands of a few "comissars," and another in which the means of production were concentrated in the hands of a few elite laissez faire "capitalists" or fascists. Because as Archbishop Sheen saw it, in either case the means of production wound up being concentrated in the hands of an elite few while the plight of the poor remained the same - except in cases where "the poor" felt themselves compelled to SELL THEIR CONSCIENCES FOR BREAD.

It was C. S. Lewis who once wrote in his book MERE CHRISTIANITY:

"The Devil.....always sends evil into the world in pairs - pairs of opposites. And he always encourages us to spend a lot of time thinking which is worse. You see why of course? He relies on your extra dislike of the one error to draw you gradually into the opposite one." C.S. Lewis, MERE CHRISTIANITY, Book IV CHapter 6

In my opinion the so-called "Third Way" is something that may have been IMAGINED by William Blake in his MARRIAGE OF HEAVEN AND HELL.

From India Today:

US President-elect Barack Obama will check into a 'haunted' hotel in Washington, DC on Sunday.

The luxury Hay-Adams Hotel on 16th and H Street is said to be haunted by the ghost of Marian, wife of former owner Henry Adams. She committed suicide in 1885.

Adams was an acclaimed author and a descendant of two US presidents - John Adams and John Quincy Adams.

Marian's ghost is said to appear especially during the first and second weeks of December on the fourth floor of the 145-room hotel. She has been apparently seen calling out housekeepers' names and heard asking, "What do you want?" This spooky tale may be a source of great excitement for the first daughters-to-be, Malia, 10, and Sasha, 7. They will move to the hotel a little over a week before the first family moves to Blair House, the traditional pre inaugural home of would-be White House incumbents.
FYI - just some trivia:

The modern day Gaza was once known as Phillistia in olden times.
Your thoughts and observations on the workings of the dialectic are insightful and very much appreciated. You have obviously studied philosophy far more than I have. My limited formal education compels me to look at the more practical aspects as I see it working. I don't believe there are many students of philosophy who have gone through that rigorous process and yet retain the clear rational thinking ability which you demonstrate.

I will be researching some of the keywords and phrases you mentioned because I can see a clear pattern of congruence with what I already know based on Bailey's description of the dualities which I believe embraces everything you said.

This gets right to the heart of the numerous problems which are introduced, whether wittingly or not, by anyone who attempts to put the "New Age" in a box under it own label, to the exclusion of other movements which appear to have no relationship. Communism, Communitarianism, Fundamentalist Christianity, and Zionism being the most apparent in this forum.
From Haaretz Service and Reuters
January 4, 2009

PRAGUE - European Union president, the Czech Republic, said Saturday an Israeli ground offensive in Gaza was “defensive, not offensive” action.

“At the moment, from the perspective of the last days, we understand this step as a defensive, not offensive, action,” Czech EU presidency spokesman Jiri Potuznik said.

Czech Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg is leading an EU delegation to the region Sunday, and Potuznik said the presidency will wait to see the results of that visit.

Israel sent troops into Gaza on Saturday evening, eight days after launching air strikes on the coastal strip, which came in the wake of a breakdown in a six-month truce with Gaza’s Hamas rulers.
“Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.”

Agreed, the New Age cannot be put into a nice neat little box, as I've posted on this blog numerous times... I see it as a vast spider web whose sticky strands reach out to every one of us in some apparent and not so apparent ways. That is why sharing our viewpoints is beneficial. The purpose of this blog, at least in my mind, was to expose and help me and others recognize as many of those silky strands as possible.

But I have a problem with linking zionism to the devil's "PLAN".

Antisemitic Stereotypes
in Alice Bailey's Writings

Seems to me Zionism is getting a bad rap these days. If one supports the right of the nation of Israel to exist, does that make him a part of a vast global conspiracy? Can one be anti-zionist and not be anti-semitic? How can “Zionism” be separated out from Judaism as an integral tool of the “Great Deception” when Bailey herself does not differentiate between the two? Obviously there exist both secular and religious Jews, those who are politically motivated and those who are sincerely devout. But that fact has absolutely no bearing on God’s original covenant with Abraham. Unless of course, one believes the covenant is only for the future, when Messiah reigns from Jerusalem, and has no merit before such time.

According to Bailey, everything fits neatly into her little “plan”, which was channeled to her by a demonic entity. (Now there’s a source!) The reality is Bailey was deceived, and to think her ideas are the beginning, or reflect accurately on what is transpiring in the world is absurd.

Bailey's demonically communicated agenda is clear. Attack Jews first, Christians second. That part, at least, is accurate. But there’s absolutely nothing new or secret about “The Plan”. It is in fact, what the complete OT and NT Bible reveals, only with what the scriptures define as “good” being recast as evil.

As I read scripture…

The LORD had said to Abram, “Leave your country, your people and your father’s household and go to the land I will show you.
2 “I will make you into a great nation
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”

17 When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. 18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the riverd of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

“I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspringb all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”

I think it is a big mistake to recast the Abrahamic Covenant as evil. If I am wrong in thinking that the Abrahamic Covenant is still valid, please show me where God rescinded His promise. Then perhaps, I’ll join the anti-zionist band wagon.

Bailey's "attack on Jews" came in the form of Zionism. They were generally at peace with the world before that. What are you looking for? On the surface, the attack appears to be from Islam, but if you understand the dialectic, appearances are properly understood as a fake reality, a deception.

Another scripture reads:
"And the king of the north shall come against him like a tempest, with chariots and with horsemen and with many ships. And he shall go into the lands and shall overflow and pass over. And he shall enter into the glorious land, and many will be stumbled. But these shall escape out of his hand: Edom and Moab, and the chief of the sons of Ammon. And his hand will stretch out against the lands, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. But he will rule over the treasures of gold and silver, and over all Egypt's desirable things. And the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. But news shall trouble him from the east and from the north. And he will go out with great fury to destroy and to devote many to destruction. And he shall plant his palace tents between the seas, in the glorious holy mountain. Yet he shall come to his end, and there is not a helper for him." - Daniel 11:40-45

Now does anyone know who has "planted his palace tents between the seas (Dead Sea and Mediterranean), in the glorious holy mountain"?
There is a simple solution to the problem of posting long url's. Learn how to code a hyperlink.

Here is the basic code:
<a href=""> </a>

Place the url between the double quotes.

Then type a word or phrase that you want readers to see between '><'.

Now here is a completed hyperlink to my website:

<a href=""> Hyperlink</a>
Bobby Garner,

You said,

"Bailey's "attack on Jews" came in the form of Zionism." And then you add, "they were generally at peace with the world before that."

Oh really?

Well, doggone that Alice Bailey! Why'd she have to go and invent Zionism and mess everything up for the Jews?

Yes, now I see where you are coming from.
Bailey invented Zionism, so anti-zionist's are actually fighting Bailey's "plan".

That kind of thinking would lead one to accept the AOC notion that as long as Jews can be returned and kept perpetually in dhimmi status, everything is cool. Is that what you are saying?

To answer you question, as far as my meager understanding goes, Daniel was writing about the coming of the Selucid Antiochus IV, who in his attempt to dominate the entire region, including Egypt, was given the nickname "madman" (Epiphanes) for his ruthless cruelty.

Around 168 B.C. Antiochus set up "an", or "the", (depending on your viewpoint), "abomination of desolation" in the Temple, an image to his own god, which was either a stature representing himself, or Zeus. The prevailing belief, at least in evangelical christian teaching, is that it was a fore shadowing of what the Beast, either figuratively or literally, will do in the last days.

The most important thing is that Antiochus did come to his end, and the "Beast" of Revelation certainly will also.
Thanks to DavidinBC for allowing my wife and I to visit with him and his family. Both Cassie (my wife) and I thoroughly enjoyed our visit. I also appreciate the prior warning given to me about his church and their message. If it had not been for this I may not have noticed the christmas tree adorned with occultic symbols such as the symbol for mother earth, the quartered circle, and the triquetra as well as a few others. It was an eye opening experience to say the least. I look forward to future visits with Dave and his family. I also would like to reiterate to Dave that if he needs assistance with anything at all not to hesitate to call me.

Dear Bobby Garner,

Thank you for your kind words. I read your article on the Hegelian dialectic and I appreciated your article as well......especially with regard to the "doctrine of being."

As in the days of the great scholastics of the Middle Ages, the philosophical and theological errors we see today are pretty much the same as they were back then and can more or less be traced back to Plato......or what has been rightly or wrongly attributed to Plato.

While these errors appear to be many errors, they can all be boiled down to ONE FUNDAMENTAL ERROR; namely, the failure to consider the nature of "being" from a truly unified point of view - that is, from the point of view of "being" itself."

Philosophically, "being" ("existence exists" or "there is an IS") is among a small handful of philosophical truths that we do not speak of in terms of "believing them." We speak of them in terms of KNOWING them because they are self-evident and require no proof.

In fact, if it were not for this small handful of axiomatic truths requiring no proof that anchor the mind into reality, we would not be able to prove anything else.

For the ancient philosophers the question of the "universals" ultimately involved a perception of being. Being is the ultimate "universal" in terms of another self-evident truth that "before anything else can be predicated of a thing, 'being' must be predicated of it."

As a little aside.....Cartesianly speaking, Rene Descartes is often jokingly referred to in terms of "reversing his ontological predicates" in his famous "Cogito ergo sum" ("I think, therefore I am") in so far as he predicated thinking of himself BEFORE being.

Philosophy has been going downhill ever since! :-)

In an effort to consider being from a truly unified point of view you will have failed to do so if you attribute being to one part of reality and deny it to another as do the Hindus.

Because then, you are not talking about "being" as a whole (from a truly unified point of view) but rather the private characteristics of a particular KIND of "being."

What Plato did - or is said to have done - was to attribute 'being' to "ideas" at the expense of attributing it equally to the material things for which ideas (which are produced by the mind) serve in the mind as "formal signs."

The philosophy of Plato has certain similarities to the Hindu philosophy in its view of the material world although Plato doesn't seem to have gone as far as they did in denying being to matter.

Gnostics tend to embrace the errors of Plato and what came to be known as "neo-Platonism."

The "corrective" partly came from Aristotle who taught that while ideas (also quantitative and qualitative universals") can be abstracted or considered by the mind apart from the things they qualify, quantify or serve in the mind as formal signs, they have no independant existence by themselves.

When the philosophers were able to consider being, they had more or less reached the pinnacle of natural wisdom.

But it was to the Jews - the Chosen People in the person of Moses - that the SUPERNATURAL REVELATION was made concerning the primary and most sacred name of God. JHVH.

JHVH is the archaic Hebrew verb for BEING in the present tense. It translates "I AM WHO AM" or HE WHO IS."

It represents absolute self-existent uncreated BEING existing in an absolute eternal NOW.

As such, uncreated BEING can and does exist independently of created being. The CREATOR is absolutely distinct from the creature.

Moreover, the "I" and the "HE" indicates the PERSONHOOD of God and also indicates that God (BEING) is not some impersonal amorphous entity sometimes spoken of in terms of "the Force."

I am sure that I have probably not explained these concepts to perfection, but I have tried my best to give as brief an outline as possible of what I consider to be unanswerable arguments against the Hegelian Dialectic in particularly and the New Age Movement as a whole. From what I can see, I think you are more than capable of comprehending my line of reasoning here.
As far as whom has established their "tents between the seas", False Israel has.

The covenant with Abraham was fulfilled. Here are two examples:

So Joshua took the entire land, just as the Lord had directed Moses, and He gave it as an inheritance to Israel according to their tribal divisions (Josh. 11:23).... So the Lord gave Israel all the land He has sworn to their forefathers, and they took possession of it and settled there. The Lord gave them rest on every side, just as He had sworn to their forefathers....Not one of all the Lord's good promises to the house of Israel failed; every one was fulfilled (Joshua 21:41-45).

The main problem I see with Zionism, and I'm being tounge in cheeck here, is that they were too late in the "imperial genocide game".

Many new countries that have established themselves have had the right to claim "god" was willing that they rape, pillage, steal and murder to establish their "god given" country. Israel was late to the game.

In the United States/North America it was MANIFEST DESTINY, and I'm sure some of you with more education that myself can list a few other countries established on the false belief that God wanted everyone killed and removed so that their people might "inherit" the land.

By the time the "new israel" rolled around, it was taboo to genocide the Palestinians. It was no longer politically correct.

Now, many old schoolers, like Theoldmanintheski, still support this, and that is their right.

But to equivicate anti-Christianity to being anti-american is a whole different story. I think this is a good comparison of calling anti-zionists anti-semetic.

Is it anti-american to be anti-chistian? IF the answer is no, then it is not anti-semetic to be anti-zionist.

Honestly, in all the research I've done concerning the plight of the Jews, I've seen no evidence of racial heritage of ANY kind. The jewish "race" is a misnomer in my eyes. Jewishness is a culture and often times a religion, but not a racial issue.

The temple in Rome was raized by soldiers. The records of "who begot whom" were destroyed.

How can anyone make an accurate claim to their lineage if there is not ancient record?

p.s. olkmanintheski, using the "straw man arguement" of Baily inventing Zionism is fairly weak. If you really want to know who the FATHER of Zionism was... it was a Cannadian named Henry Wentworth Monk . Years ahead of his time, his commical/insane life was a symbol of things to come.

-Still waiting on Constance-

Its absurd to suggest that Alice Bailey "invented Zionism". Zionism, like Communism was an invention of the British, who as you might know is a component of the present Anglo-American world power. Zionism is the basis of support for Fundamentalist Christianity. It is no coincidence that Britain and the US are Israel's primary supporters. When they end their support, Israel and its Political Zionism will be over, and the Jews will be the victims according to "The Plan".

You will need to see the information and research I have provided on British-Israel, and the Pilgrim Society for these connections to become clear.

Bailey wrote for the Theosophical Society which has been a powerful force in the direction of world events since its founding in the mid 1800's. It was the Theosophical Society beginning with Madam Blavatsky who provided the Luciferian "Light" to the secret society leaders who had been in virtual darkness for thousands of years. Beginning with Blavatski, and especially Bailey, they spelled out "The Plan" provided by their perceived "Ascended Masters". "The Plan" to them is the holy writ that guides the world today.

Zionism began to impact on Jews most seriously in 1948 when it began exercising sovereign power as a nation among nations.
Dorothy is right. Anti-semitism is creeping into this board. Oh, I'm not anti-semitic, i'm anti-Zionist. Give me a break.
The Externalization of the Hierarchy
Section II - The General World Picture
Steps Towards the New World Order

The Coming World Order
II. The New World Order
Steps Towards the New World Order

9.) "In the preparatory period for the new world order there will be a steady and regulated disarmament. It will not be optional. No nation will be permitted to produce and organize any equipment for destructive purposes or to infringe the security of any other nation. One of the first tasks of any future peace conference will be to regulate this matter and gradually see to the disarming of the nations." [192]

I found the link above and what appears to be the full text of the Bailey Book through this never before seen by me 'internet spiritual portal' for lack of a better term:
"A Reasoning Guidance System For Advanced Communications Networks"


For additional reading to verify, here is the table of contents of the Bailey book:


***Global Zero***, launched December 9, 2008

Launch Press Release

GLOBAL ZERO is a group of leaders calling for the elimination of all nuclear weapons.
GLOBAL ZERO is spearheaded by more than 100 political, military, business, faith and civic leaders from around the world and from across political lines.  Beginning with its inaugural conference in Paris December 8-9, GLOBAL ZERO will conduct a series of international events, including a World Summit for 500 leaders in January 2010.

Of the current list of 132 Signatories we see listed, eight members of the twelve who make up THE ELDERS. They are:

Desmond Tutu
Mary Robinson
Muhammad Yunus
Gro Harlem Brundtland
Jimmy Carter
Lakhdar Brahim
Ela Bhatt
Fernando Henrique Cardoso

Also listed are:
Mikhail Gorbachev

Richard Branson -
founder of The Elders

Strobe Talbott - Brookings Institute

Richard Cizik

Zbigniew Brzezinski - Barack Obama supporter and adviser.

Interested readers may take a look at the full list.
You will see former US Secretaries of Defense, and former security advisers,
( Frank C. Carlucci, Former National Security Advisor Robert McFarlane),Senator Chuck Hagel, several former congressmen, former presidents of countries and high level leadership in the areas of international diplomacy and security. I haven't even addressed the signatories and their relationship to the Club of Budapest, Club of Rome, or the Alliance of Civilizations etc.

Most include bios for further details.


Besides the obvious, the FAQ page added the detail that brought Alice Bailey's
"The Externalization of the Hierarchy" to mind.

"What about the possibility of “cheating”?"

"Global Zero's plan will outline the terms of a universal verification and enforcement system. ...
The agreement would call for multinational action against any attempts to cheat."

"But what about the threat of nuclear terrorism?"

"Terrorist groups will never participate in an agreement for Zero."

"Global Zero's plan calls for the verified and enforced destruction of all nuclear weapons and international oversight of all nuclear energy production to prevent the clandestine development of weapons."


Hi Constance, If you have time (!)
maybe you could elaborate on this aspect of The Plan for your readers. The best I can contribute is to hightlight
the very recent launch of "Global Zero". I'll leave the expounding to the experts. -Rudi

"Destruction cometh; and they shall seek peace, and there shall be none." Ezekiel 7:25

"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." I Thessalonians 5:3

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2Peter 3:10
Define anti-semitism please. Must I support Israel? Or have my views be labeled "Hate"?
Anon 3:41, I do believe you're right!

I appreciate your lucid explanation of the "nature of being" and its relevance in understanding the dialectic. You have helped me to make better sense out of the arguments presented by the LaRouche organization, and their role. I do believe I comprehend what you are saying, and your insight helps to clear up some things I have pondered over for quiet a while.

I'm reminded of something Linda Kimball wrote where she included the following quote:

"In his book, "What We Can't Not Know," J. Budziszewski outlined the four natural means of attaining moral knowledge: the witness of deep conscience, the witness of design in nature, the witness of our own design, and the witness of natural consequences. In unison, these witnesses lead us to this principle: "How things are meant to work," which Budziszewski said is, "just plain enough to learn from observing them and just simple enough to learn from the error of one's ways."

The title of her article is Denying The Obvious And Becoming Stupid And Depraved. It sounded so reasonable to me that I included it in one of my recent articles The Folly of Fighting Social Issues.

I wish some of the naysayers would try reading some of this information at the links I offer before attempting to disqualify me.

Thank you so much for your posts.
Followup to my last post:
The problem of course, is that some are incapable of seeing the error of their way.

The proper word for that condition is complicity induced by deception.
Rudi, you have struck the motherload of 'source' information on the New Age and ascension to the "Mothership". There are unmistakable hints to the Technological Singularity and Transhumanism which I have mentioned here before.

A warning to the weak of faith is in order, hosts the study course material for self initiation into the Luciferian Doctrine. My advice is look at it and verify what it is, but don't read it or dwell on it.
Bobby Garner-
"Sometimes it's better to not know what's inside the hotdog" Yikes... Rudi

More on your perception of a left and right in the New Age Movement. I agree that there does appear to be sa feature like that. For example, on one hand we have the "higher consciousness" ascension mode types looking to their inner self to find God. On the other we have the likes of Al Gore Gaia earth worshipers who appear to have already found the god at their "center", and presume to communicate his dictates to the excess baggage of us low life forms that we will have to move on to another cosmic region, so we can return later and try it again. While we can see that these two lines of thought are quiet different, the interplay is sublimely obvious in view of the dualities as Bailey defined their actions.

Which brings me to my next point that since Bailey declared both of these elements to be "definitely good", it seems to me that both sides will recognize Bailey as the authority for their actions.

Although she associates this division with the spiritual and material aspects of the Hierarchy, (she calls them "two great groups of divine agents"), I don't see her favoring one over the other, except of course in the final outcome which she obviously believed the Great White Brotherhood would win.
To anonymous 2:55

I just sat down to my computer for the first time today and before I get to anything else, I want to make sure of terms. There is no such word as "antisemetism" or "antisemetic." It is properly spelled" anti-semitic OR antisemitic.

I'll get back to you later.

To Bobby Garner:

I just went to my Emergent Church column looking for your answer to my question on Anthroposophy. I didn't get there yet, BUT I DID FIND THIS posted by one of my readers. If you did write what is attributed to you, I rather suspect you and I have nothing in common. Moreover, I note that what you are saying about the Jews is PRECISELY what Alice Bailey said about them. You are certainly familiar enough with her work to know that.

EXPLIQUEZ S'IL VOUS PLAISEZ? Did you come to this board to cause dissention?



From the Niki Raapana website, comment by Bobby Garner under the Cumbey thread:

"...I'm very disappointed that Constance tolerates Zionist shills on her blog, embracing them even as "highly esteemed contributors". Perhaps Dorothy is right that "Constance will do what she wants to do", with a little help from her "highly esteemed contributors". In the movie Braveheart, the Nobel's reveal their secret of control. Compromise."

9:26 PM
Advice to Constance:

Resolve your contradictions.

My posts have appeared contradictory from your view of the world as it pertains to the identity and activities of the New Age.
You wrote:
"I think I laid out the landscape of the New Age Movement pretty accurately in THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW!"

I haven't read the book, but I've watch videos where you describe your thoughts on it, and I don't find anything to disagree with, and I was grateful for the affirmation of my own research which was done much later. The simple fact is that while post 1980's history has certainly not refuted your disclosures, it is equally certain that we have learn very much more since then which adds to it.

The very fact of our differences does not in and of itself disqualify either of us. Recognizing our differences and rejecting me because I'm at odds with your 1980's version of the New Age is "justifying the contradictions, allowing them to stand without further consideration. Pardon me, but we use the picture of an Ostrich with its head in the sand to help visualize the effect. It is common practice even among world class leaders, and Lawyer's are no exception.

I hope you will take this kindly in the spirit I offer it. Resolving our contradictions is how we grow in knowledge, understanding and wisdom. I have dealt with this more fully in a subheading, "What is belief?"

Regarding my comments on Niki's blog, I can only say that it was certainly an expression of my perception of some very vocal apologists for Zionism here on your blog.

Would you comment please on my argument about the political nature of Zionism?

I know how its possible for a Zionist to reduce their opposition to the status of a "self hater" or a "Jew hater" unworthy of life. I have experienced that too, but how do you justify such labeling? Are you also a Zionist?
Bobby Garner -

No-one here has done this:

"I know how its possible for a Zionist to reduce their opposition to the status of a "self hater" or a "Jew hater" unworthy of life"

Keep talking, we're seeing your true colors.
BY ALL MEANS! If anti-semitic and antisemitic are the only allowed spellings of "said word needing defined", so be it.

If I am against the policies of modern Israel am I a jew hater or not?

Personally, based on e-mail correspondance with a Jewish DNA researcher, I do not believe that the Ashkenazi Jews are descendants of the holy land at all, rather, they are from the Kahzaria, as is documented in Arthur Koestler's controversial "the 13th tribe".

I can dig up the web page that shows the Jewish DNA researcher's work if anyone is interested to see it.

It certainly makes it easy to remain in the padded cell of "anti-new age-ism" if we are not allowed to criticize Israel nor any Jews that might be involved in the research we discover.

Please don't avoid me questions with SEMANTICS i.e. spelling.

If you don't want to answer and state your position... Just say so.
I find this article fascinating since it follows the news regarding Travolta's son. The sons death news disappears from yahoo and now this pops up.
To anon 6:33:

I suspect that you did not read that I got my experience with Zionists here on this blog.

So, since you really said nothing, what did you really want to say?
Garner, your conclusions are absurd.

trying new technology.
Bobby Garner,
You said:
"Zionism is the basis of support for Fundamentalist Christianity."

Merriam-Webster: "Fundamentalism- Protestant religious movement emphasizing the literal infallibility of the Bible." Theological definition of Inerrancy/Infallibility:
"Without error, non-errant. In Christianity, inerrancy states that the Bible, in its original documents, is without error regarding facts, names, dates, and any other revealed information. Inerrancy does not extend to the copies of the biblical manuscripts."

Your wolf is showing.
Sometimes it's better to throw the "baby" out with the bathwater, INMO.

By His Grace,
Of course I meant to type IMHO.

Methinks the Grasshopper and D'Authority smelled this wolf out before the rest of us.

Let's hope they come back and bring their BS sniffers.
Dear Anon 7:46,
Methinks we are in agreement. ;-)


I think you are aware that I did NOT say that Zionism IS Christian Fundamentalism.
SEAN, BOBBY GARNER are clearly playing a game commonly played in the New Age Movement. I practice law full time and do not have all day to scrutinize what goes here. Dorothy is retired. What you two have done and are doing goes far beyond what Joyce wrote that Dorothy perceived as anti-Semitic and I respectfully disagreed.

Bobby Garner, I retract my praises of your work and your friend Sean is playing quite a game.

Please take your vile elsewhere! I am not letting my own blogspot be hijacked by this maneuver!

You are somewhat akin to Bro Eric and his approach!

Bobby Garner- you wrote,

"Bailey's "attack on Jews" came in the form of Zionism."

Then, following my reply, you wrote:

"Its absurd to suggest that Alice Bailey "invented Zionism".

Perhaps I jumped to conclusions. Or maybe not, the jury is still out as far as I am concerned.

Would it be more accurate to describe your viewpoint thus: While Bailey didn't invent "Zionism", she incorporated it into the "plan" to attack, and ultimately destroy, the Jews?

I sincerely did try to understand what you originally wrote in the context of which you wrote it, but I find it extremely difficult to figure out what you are really saying.

Here's what I thought the words meant:

"Bailey's attack".....meant she initiated it

"came in the form of"....meant the method she used....

"Zionism"....which, (according to you) is the "real" Jew's greatest enemy.

In any case, did you, or did you not, intend to say that Bailey promoted "Zionism" as a weapon against Jews? (Sorry, I'm only giving you two choices, realizing that maybe your anti-Hegelian schizophrenia prevents you from acknowledging that sometimes there really are ONLY TWO CHOICES.)

Sean, yes I'm old school. I believe the Abrahamic covenant has not expired. Your claim that the passage in Daniel 11 refers to "false Israel" is a component of "replacement theology", an heretical doctrine that I reject as it requires way too much scriptural "twisting" and "rethinking" to support.
( "In an unprecedented radio event, a chapter of Tehillim (Psalms) was read aloud during prime-time on IDF Army Radio, on behalf of the war effort.
The broadcasters were Kobi Arieli and Avri Gilad, who represent the religious-nationalist and left-secular viewpoints, respectively, on the humourous/political "The Last Word" show. Arieli introduced the segment by saying that he had received countless SMS messages since last night asking him to recite Psalm 20 on behalf of the ground troops entering Gaza. Gilad then said that he, too, had received one this morning. They then agreed, tongue in cheek, that "in order to stop this flood of SMS messages," they would read aloud the Psalm on air."

Link Here-

or Here-

Psalms 20:
"To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. May the LORD answer you in the day of trouble; May the name of the God of Jacob defend you; May He send you help from the sanctuary, And strengthen you out of Zion; May He remember all your offerings, And accept your burnt sacrifice. Selah
May He grant you according to your heart's [desire], And fulfill all your purpose. We will rejoice in your salvation, And in the name of our God we will set up [our] banners! May the LORD fulfill all your petitions. Now I know that the LORD saves His anointed; He will answer him from His holy heaven With the saving strength of His right hand. Some [trust] in chariots, and some in horses; But we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
They have bowed down and fallen; But we have risen and stand upright. Save, LORD! May the King answer us when we call."

My prayers will always be with the Firstborn of YHWH.

By His Grace,
Dear Rudi,
Thank you for the link to the Bailey book. I've read excerpts from it, but never in full.
Still reading, but wanted to tell you thanks.

By His Grace,
Bobby Garner,

In the article on the Hegelian dialectic we read:

§ 87

But this mere Being, as it is mere abstraction, is therefore the absolutely negative: which, in a similarly immediate aspect, is just Nothing.

(1) Hence was derived the second definition of the Absolute: the Absolute is the Nought. In fact this definition is implied in saying that the thing-in-itself is the indeterminate, utterly without form and so without content — or in saying that God is only the supreme Being and nothing more; for this is really declaring him to be the same negativity as above. The Nothing which the Buddhists make the universal principle, as well as the final aim and goal of everything, is the same abstraction.

(2) If the opposition in thought is stated in this immediacy as Being and Nothing, the shock of its nullity is too great not to stimulate the attempt to fix Being and secure it against the transition into Nothing.

With this intent, reflection has recourse to the plan of discovering some fixed predicate for Being, to mark it off from Nothing.

I forget where I read it, but it was St. Augustine, a former Manichaean "hearer", who once taught( and I am paraphrasing here) that if we truly understood what God REALLY meant when he revealed himself to Moses as JHVH atop Mount Horeb, then it is highly unlikely that we could ever be dualists.

If God is absolute self-existent uncreated BEING, then there can be no such thing as His "opposite" which would be "absolute, self-existent uncreated "NOTHING" as the Manichaeans taught when they postulated the existence of two equal but opposite "Absolutes."

Then how are we to reconcile this with the belief that God created "ex nihilo" ("from nothing")?

By understanding that while God, the only ABSOLUTE, is "pure actuality," what we understand as "nothing" is "pure potentiality" which is dependent on God insofar as it is "that to which God CAN give being but does not."

Creatures, moreover, are a combination of potentiality and actuality insofar as they, unlike God, do not possess all of their being all at once.

This was the teaching of the great schoolmen of the middle ages.
FYI - ECKHART TOLLE TV is planned for launch in Spring 2009. Although it's calling itself TV it's a live internet screening.

Quote, "Now, at this time of accelerating change and profound transformation, people from all over the world have the opportunity to join together and experience Eckhart Tolle teaching in a pioneering new format - via monthly online broadcasts designed to catalyze spiritual awakening and provide clarity, guidance, and support to viewers worldwide. In order to make new material available as quickly as possible, to as many people as possible, Eckhart is creating this new online subscription service, Eckhart Tolle TV."

Hhhmmm??? I wonder what the need to quickly get new material out to the masses might be!

You're welcome. I was surprised to find it. A different online library source used to have it, but as of April 2007 it's free online edition was withdrawn at copyright holder's request. Bailey's source, as you know, was,,,you know the drill.

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.Resist him, standing firm in the faith,because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings"
1 Peter 5: 8-9
"And whoever will not receive you, nor will hear your words, having gone out of that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet." - Matthew 10:14
Bobby Garner,

I have kept up with the New Age Movement and I dare say I have forgotten more about it than you will ever know, UNLESS that is, you are a part of such as was the case with Eustace Mullins, another person trying to work both sides. I find it hard to believe that you have researched the New Age Movement from an allegedly Christian perspective and didn't read my book. To this day when the New Agers mention their serious opposition, I am usually the only mentioned, except in Paul Heelas' Baylor University published book (or was it Blackwell -- book is at my office and I am home) where I had to share ink with one other person -- Pope John Paul II.

To Bobby Garner and Sean with their apparent sock puppet type dialogue . . . "Zionists seek to control the allegiance of the whole world . . ."

Looks to me like you are basing your assumptions on "THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION" . . . a book placed in circulation, per the introduction by one "Justine Glinka" better known as "Juliana Glinka," Madame Blavatsky's leading Parisian disciple.

Excuse me but your New Age slip is showing!

Bobby Garner,
"Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen."
-Romans 1:22-25

Glad I invested in that handy-dandy dustbuster last spring.

Sorry. Still getting used to signing in.

At the request of the owner-I depart. I made no plan with Bobby to post here. I saw that his work was being brought into question, and after a week or so of following the comments and posts of Constance et al, I decided to add my two cents. I'll have those two cents back now please.

Oldmanintheski, if you chose to think that the formation of the current state of Israel and is the divine will of God-so be it. It is far beyond me to convince you otherwise.

Again-I'm not playing a sock game with Bobby. We've never participated together in any other comments section bar Niki Raapana's, and we are not co-ordinated in any way. My finding Bobby's website was a recent event; a blessing.

I mean no ill will to anyone here.

Peace to you all!

-In Christ alone.


Just what Christ are you and Bobby Garner referring to? The Jesus Christ of the Bible. Or the "Christ" of "The Reappearance of the Christ" by the Alice Bailey who makes the same arguments and rhetoric vis a vis world Jewry and Zionist as you two?

K. 10:08

I glanced at the site for Eckhart Tolle T.V.... Wow, be aware that the video that is up on his site is basically a meditation invitation and is VERY entrancing... at first it seemed a bit boring and awkward but after watching (and praying) I understood the danger behind this sort of transmission. Uggg.

I'll be interested to see what Oprah has to say as time goes on. She seems to be pretty invested in Eckhart Tolle's deception.


LOL, I can tolerate a mess. When is best for this? Would it be possible during a weekend or just during the week? I know I ask a lot of questions, but it helps me fit it into my plans. Not only that but I have to double check everything with my wife to make sure I don't have a previous engagement that I am unaware of. lol Not to mention its a couple hour drive. Thanks, and I am praying for you as I know how strained you must feel with current turn of events here.

Constance, Oldman, SV, anyone else involved,

Atta boys all around! After spending WAY too mcuh time for my own sanity peering through the stuff on Bobby's page last night, most of which talked in circles, I knew something was off. I figured I would leave sniffing this one out to the pros and man you guys work fast. lol I am just happy that I am picking up on how to sniff out this type of agent. Again good job all around.

JD --
Tuesday nights and
Thursday nights I am in office later to do radio program -- those nights might be good for you.

Nice job oldmanoftheski and Susanna. You pinned them to the mat.

Thanks, now I simply have to check it with my date book, err I mean my wife. lol
'Bobby' says:
"I have never considered myself to be a "born again" Christian, but I do subscribe to the tradition established by the life and death of Jesus Christ."

Dangerous Bobby, dangerous!
He also does not consider himself "a believer."

Having said that, I do not consider myself to be a "believer", although I have been baptized twice.

More from Bobby Garner's website which might shed a little light:

"It seems rather obvious that we need not waste time trying to change the way deception works (see Deceivers Tool Kit), so there is only one other possibility. That is of course, change the way we believe. The fact is, we believe only those things which we are convinced are true. So, the logical conclusion that we come to, is that we must take a serious look at the ways in which we become "convinced". We must stop being such easy pushovers for deception.

"The paradox is solved when we substitute knowledge everywhere beliefs exist. In other words, we must stop believing. Ask yourself; When did people first believe? Did God ask Adam and Eve to believe anything? He told them in no uncertain terms that they would die if they ate the forbidden fruit. Science is in pursuit of the ultimate reality, God. When we find him, will we not have mastered all knowledge? Isn't that what Adam and Eve had? Perfect knowledge of God? Satan said they would be a lot wiser if they ate, but he was a liar.

Here is where it began for me, so it seems fitting to end on this note; "My son, If you will receive my sayings and treasure up my own commandments with yourself, so as to pay attention to wisdom with your ear, that you may incline your heart to discernment, if, moreover, you call out for understanding itself and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasure you keep searching for it, in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah, and you will find the very knowledge of God." — Proverbs 2:1: 5

I am not there yet, but I feel that I'm way ahead of the pack and I have no interest in looking back. My hope is that I may be able to offer some assistance to those who are struggling to find their way out of the matrix."

It appears he did not discover any of this until about 1986-1987. I had been on the road for 4-5 years about this time getting the word out. There was much disinformation getting out and maybe he fell for the Eustace Mullins - Tal Brooke variety of same. Those guys were slick!

He does make some interesting points about how all the word could fall for something -- he is in error, in my opinion, in assuming God did not tell Adam and Eve to believe anything.


Thank you for posting an honest comment about me and expressing your "opinion" about it. I don't expect or need agreement, so I'm not discouraged by disagreement. In fact I welcome it whenever it relates to honest discussion.

Accusations on the other hand are very rarely if ever intended to result in discussion, and I find it highly unprofitable to try to turn them into discussions. I believe accusations are employed whenever discussion is thought to be undesirable, and in my opinion, they are not a sign of great character. So, I interpret your last post as an invitation to discuss the matter of belief.

I feel very strongly about it, but I readily admit that its only my perspective derived from my own research and experience. Therefore, I do hold certain beliefs about it, but I have not carved it in stone, at least not yet.

I have learned a lot since writing my earlier thoughts on the function of belief and the processes by which we acquire it. My basic premise hasn't changed a lot, but my understanding of it has improved considerably. I've posted links here, but apparently its easier to accuse me of an evil motive than to actually go read what I have written on various subjects. I challenge you and your readers to find a flaw in my following reasoning:

"Normal growth in knowledge progresses along a circular path where the same processes are repeated over and over again, with each repetition resulting in a knowledge which is superior to all that came before. Belief is a proper state of mind to be held repeatedly, but temporarily in the transition between knowledge and doubt. The natural progression from ignorance to knowledge therefore follows a circuitous pattern of:

"Belief - Contradiction - Doubt - Search - Resolution - Knowledge - Belief

"In ignorance, all things are believed and nothing is doubted. Or we could say, belief is the absence of doubt, or until there is doubt, all is believed. This describes the state of our mind as we first experience life. Belief is interrupted by contradiction. Doubt initiates the search for knowledge. Once the satisfactory knowledge is found, belief is once more established, but it now includes the new knowledge. Since the perfect knowledge has not yet been found, we are eventually confronted by yet another contradiction and doubt returns which requires a new search for a superior knowledge. The contradiction ALWAYS represents a problem with the belief or paradigm which produces it. In other words, the contradiction exists only because of a flaw in the perspective or frame of reference which holds the belief. Therefore it needs to be recognized that the belief is defective. The contradiction is resolved by the discovery of new knowledge which can happen only when we do the search." - excerpt from What Is Belief?

Jesus said "Unless you convert and become as the little children, not at all can you enter into the kingdom of Heaven." Matthew 18:3.

The most notable characteristic of little children is their eagerness to learn new knowledge. This is also consistent with Jesus words at John 17:3: "And this is everlasting life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."

Although Jesus did say that we should believe in him, there is no evidence to support any alternative to having that belief based on a solid foundation of accurate knowledge. The only other alternative is belief based on ignorance. Also it is unreasonable to believe that Jesus would advise against what was written in the 2nd chapter of Proverbs where the diligent search for knowledge is rewarded: "Then you shall understand righteousness and judgment and honesty, yea, every good path.".

Presumably, the reward would not be forthcomming in the absence of the diligent search. Miner's and treasure hunter's know and understand this basic rule. Indeed, we are born with this natural instinct, so why is it such a large leap for Christians?
Hi Gretchen, thanks for the warning on the Tolle video. I did try to watch it because I've never heard Tolle speak or seen him on TV but I just couldn't sit through it ... the ultra slow pace, the pregnant pauses and his intense seriousness simply threw me into fits of giggles.

I don't get to see Oprah either and as you say it'll be interesting to hear if she endorses his online venture.

Hi Constance, Your spine is showing! LOL
Bobby Garner said,

"Although Jesus did say that we should believe in him, there is no evidence to support any alternative to having that belief based on a solid foundation of accurate knowledge. The only other alternative is belief based on ignorance. Also it is unreasonable to believe that Jesus would advise against what was written in the 2nd chapter of Proverbs where the diligent search for knowledge is rewarded: "Then you shall understand righteousness and judgment and honesty, yea, every good path.".

Presumably, the reward would not be forthcomming in the absence of the diligent search. Miner's and treasure hunter's know and understand this basic rule. Indeed, we are born with this natural instinct, so why is it such a large leap for Christians?"

Once again your true colors show through!

I said you were rude and contemptuous once before, and I'll repeat it.

No evidence to support any alternative to having that belief based on a solid foundation of accurate knowledge?????????????

What about FAITH, sir?

Salvation comes through faith, Mr. Limitless Nothingness! I've said it before and I'll repeat it again!
Gnostics know that the path to Lucifer is through Knowledge or Gnossis. The path to Jesus Christ is through faith!

Do you believe faith in Jesus delivers us from sin, and death? Do you believe we can have eternal life in Christ Jesus? Plain answer. Yes, or no?
To Bobby Garner:

I am, as most know, a practicing attorney. I was taught in law school, "you can't change your facts." Once the FACTS are known through diligent investigation, the law will often leap out at one.

Upon what purported FACT do you and the others examining, for example, Agenda 21 conclude it is a ZIONIST plot? My research has shown me to my satisfaction that the Jews are clearly a target of the Lucis Trust / Maurice Strong gang that helped put Agenda 21 in place!

Anon 1253:
What is the basis for "Faith"?
Is it ignorance?
Is it knowledge?
Or, is it perhaps a really good feeling?

None of the above?

I am beginning to question your reading and comprehension skills. I am not anonymous 1253, I was anonymous 12:31.

It is not surprising to me that you attempt to use circular reasoning in your arguments. If you are indeed a servant of the Light of Limitless Nothingness, then you are wasting your time trying to deceive those of us who have stepped forward in FAITH, to receive the truth, needing neither knowledge nor proof, but only seeking LOVE.
One does not have to delve very far into Alice Bailey literature to see that Jews in general and those believing post-Holocaust that they needed a homeland are CLEAR TARGETS of the New Age planners INCLUDING AGENDA 21 planners. So are Catholics and fundamentalist Protestants. Reading Peter LeMesurier AND Bailey, it is abundantly clear that "the massed forces of the Old Age would go on to defeat each other in a mutual massive build up of long pent up aggression."

Whenever I see clear incitement of one faction against another which goes beyond doctrinal discussions and claims the right to end lives (Bro Eric would be a clear example) I am reminded of that strategy.

I did watch the news as I do daily online and a few weeks ago, it was reported that Hamas had reported they would no longer honor the cease fire with Israel. Thereafter they started firing rockets into Israeli population centers.

To call Israel fighting back on a group which has openly called for Jewish extermination "genocide" as some of those fighting communitarianism have perhaps mistakenly concluded is a misreading of facts.

Martin Buber has been cited as a forerunner of Agenda 21. Perhaps correct BUT Martin Buber hung with Alice Bailey, Olga Froebe Kapteyn and Karl Jung at the Eranos School of Spiritual Research in Switzerland.

During WWII, Americans were forbidden to donate to this center which was the scene of intense anti-Semitic work by Carl Jung and others who had also been active in the "let's make Krishnamurti the new Christ" scene. You can read all about it in several sources including James McLaughlin's Princeton published book, BOLLINGEN, AN ADVENTURE IN COLLECTING THE PAST,Copyright 1982 by Princeton University Press. Again, I note this book, like LeMesurier's 1981 THE ARMAGEDDON SCRIPT came out at a time when the New Agers nourished their delusional belief that nobody could understand their loosely coded plans but themselves. As soon as they discovered they had opposition, folk like Donald Keys quickly vanished into the woodwork, althought I am presently inclined to believe he was working diligently at a protected Mt. Shasta location to help Paul Hawken set up his vast networks.

Quoting from the Bollingen book, p. 21:

"Around 1920, Olg and her farther went to the Monte Verita sanatorium in Ascona for a rest cure and liked the little town. Kapteyn bought Casa Gabriella for his daughter and settled a comfortable amount of money on her. She invited artists, poets, interesting people, to visit and meanwhile pursued her search for meaning variously in Theosophy, Roman Catholicism, and Eastern thought. Her circle of freinds inlcluded the mystical German poet Ludwig Derleth who aspired to be elected pope; Andre Germain, a wealthy French dilettante who preached pan-Europeanism; Alastair, a bizarre traveler . . .; MARTIN BUBER, who lectured on TAOISM [NOTE, BOBBY GARNER AND NIKI -- TAOISM, NOT ZIONISM . . . CEC] at Monte Verita, with Olga asking for a chair while others sat on the grass; Baron Eduard von der heydt, formerly the Kaiser's banker, and rumon had it, the Theosophical leaders Annie Besant and Jiddu Krishnamurti . . ."

How do you derive anything conceivably akin to Zionism out of that?

Constance, you accused me of anti-Semitism. You claim to be the authority on the New Age. You praised my work, and then you roundly condemned it. You associated me with the New Age which I oppose, and alleged that I got my information from questionable sources. When I quote credible sources such as the works of Bailey, you allege that I'm supporting her.

Lastly you posted some of my work to "shed some light", which I took as the possible beginning of a real discussion, so I offered my opinion of belief.

But you didn't want a discussion did you? You obviously want to see how many hoops I'll jump through so you interject a new line of questions with new allegations that I somehow said that Agenda 21 was a Zionist plot.

If that is an example of your comprehension, then I have to wonder how you ever passed the Bar. I learned many years ago to beware of the pool shark pretending a broken wrist.

I appreciate all the help I've gotten here in confirmation of my theories about the power of propaganda, persuasion, deception, and belief.

More, page 23, ibid:

"In 1928 Olga [Kapteyn] built a lecture hall on her grounds . . . and a guest house which she named Casa Shanti in a Hindu ceremony. A year or two later, she went to the United States AND SOUGHT OUT Alice A. Bailey . . who led a movement called the Arcane School . . . The two women established the School of Spiritual Research which began in 1930 . . ."

"She [Olga Froebe Kapteyn] had met Jung at Count Herman Keyserling's School of Wisdom . . in 1930 -- and Alice Bailey had wanted to invite him to the School of Spiritual Research . . . Gradually over the first few years of Eranos [aka School of Spiritual Research] Jung became its dominant figure.

There was a prominent early Zionist who joined per McLaughlin 'as an expession of revolt against his Jewish family's bourgeois way of life. For a time he came under the influence of Matin Buber. "He eventually becamse a professor of Jewish Mysticism at Hebrew University. See McLaughlin, p. 153

MYSTICISM is the engine of the NEW AGE MOVEMENT and is that which opens the very deception you say you are concerned about.

You ask how it can happen that the whole world can be deceived. The answer is very simple. Go to your Bible, Bobby, and read 2nd Thessalonians, Chapter 2. The profile for who is deceived and who is not is THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH. It is not PERFECT TRUTH. Those who have THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH (and please do remember Jesus said he was the way, the truth and the light' -- not a template or a tradition -- get their eyes opened, the others don't. That simple!

MASS POSSESSION (or you can call it MASS HYPNOSIS if you want to secularize it) is what will cause great deception!

BOBBY, you either did not read Alice Bailey accurately or you mischaracterized her.

Alice Bailey certainly never claimed to start Zionism. It was Zionism she claimed to oppose.

Furthermore, she claimed that what happened to the Jews in WWII was a result of their 'bad national karma."

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