Friday, August 22, 2008



To my readers: This is part III of the series which now appears will extend beyond the 4 part promised. It is part of the series I am doing for, "The Hi-Jacking of Evangelicalism." I am giving my blogspot readers a "sneak preview." Thanks to all the participants on "My Perspective" internet radio last Friday afternoon and special thanks to Farmer!

I'm adding some supplemental material here that does not appear in the NWV article.  Betty Freauf of Oregon wrote me and I penned this in reply to her letter.  Thought it would be helpful here.  It is in the comment section.



Part III – Unification Church

How it all started for me

Traipsing around Wayne State University in the late 1960s when I was a student, I saw posters for a new “messiah”, Sun Myung Moon. I thought then of the Biblical warnings of Jesus that “false christs and messiahs shall arise, deceiving many.” Rev. Moon was visiting the United States then. He moved here in the 1970s. The followers elicited many jokes about “flower sellers.” Books by authors such as Ted Patrick warned that these groups were brainwashing America’s children. The only seeming Christian regard for them then appeared to be that of something to be avoided at all costs.

I graduated from law school in 1975 and immediately began an active practice. My work frequently took me downtown. Downtown Detroit had a prominent building – still there – the First National Building. The First National Building had a health food bar – one where somebody could sip herbal teas, buy ginseng tablets (billed as a legal way to keep us awake) and eat various nutritional goodies. Although the staff was fairly quiet, it soon came out that they believed Rev. Moon was the messiah.

When Benjamin Crème spoke in Detroit, November 4, 1981, the Unification health food store and faces commonly seen there were included in his large audience. So was just about every other mind control and /or other forms of “New Age.” Bread for the World and Oxfam also had a presence that evening. The First National health food bar personnel were visibly present.

There were so many people in the audience representing such a huge variety of New Age groups – ranging from Est to Rajneeshees (Osho), to Unity and A Course in Miracles that Unification Church seemed the least of our worries. When I collected the New Age books and periodicals, there was ample evidence that Rev. Moon and his organization were clearly part of the New Age landscape.

Escalating events seemed to carry me about after Benjamin Crème and company ran their April 25th, 1982 advertisements proclaiming “THE CHRIST IS NOW HERE.” Only a few short days after those ads appeared, the local paper, THE DETROIT FREE PRESS featured a large feature article by staff writer, Ruth Seymour. The numbers attending my local lectures suddenly jumped from 35 to hundreds. I was suddenly on demand for television appearances, radio interviews, and many out of town lectures. I would put my law practice on hold for the next seven years and get the bulk of my exercise running for planes. An unexpected referral fee for an old medical malpractice fee came just in time to sustain us financially during this time that my law income was diminished. As I did not feel I could maintain credibility for a controversial message by exploiting it financially, I spoke for free will offerings. Often the speaking engagements came from small churches that sacrificed to raise the transportation and lodging expenses. To lighten the load on organizers, more often than not I was housed in church member homes. Things were happening to me so rapidly, I could scarcely reflect on them, let alone daily catalog them.

This was also a time when I was receiving fierce opposition from too many Evangelical sources for reasons I did not understand and would not fully understand until I discovered the details outlined in the first two articles of this series. It was a time of tremendous anxiety and stress for both me and my family. My disabled husband who had lost both legs above the knees in a 1979 accident and my son were understanding troupers throughout these years as I traveled more heavily than I had expected to ever do in my life.

THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW was released in late May, 1983. By early October 1983 it headed the Christian best seller list for the USA. Foreign editions were scheduled. It was about that time I received a letter which rang a curious bell. The letter, on CAUSA letterhead, was signed by a U.S. Brigadier General E. D. Woellner. It invited me to an all expenses paid seminar in Washington, D.C. “to explore positive alternatives to Marxism.” It specifically denied any Unification Church involvement in its operation. I pulled an article from my filing cabinets I had recently filed under “Uruguay.” The article talked about the success of the Unification Church in that South American country. It further called CAUSA, “the political arm of the Unification Church.”

Just about that time the phone rang and Kansas city friends were on the line. They told me they had just come back from a CAUSA conference and were shocked at what they had seen. They said all accommodations were deluxe. They said they had met a “Bo Hi Pak,” whom they subsequently learned was then “number two” in Unification Church. Cleon Skousen as well as W. Steuart McBirnie, author of then popular books on the antichrist had been present at the same conference. My Kansas City friends told me they said to each other, “good grief, they’re presenting the entire New Age agenda as a positive alternative to Marxism.”

There was a form to fill out at the end of the conference. It included a “whom shall we invite.” They duly filled out “Constance Cumbey” complete with Detroit address and phone number. They called me to say that they both thought it terribly important that I see it for myself. They were right.

Shortly thereafter I got a followup call from CAUSA staff. I said I would accept their invitation; however, they would have to fly me from Fort Wayne, Indiana as I would be there for Christmas. They would have to return me to Detroit. The terms were accepted. Flying that “milk bucket route,” I was routed through Charlotte and got there several hours late. There was a “Carla,” with the “CAUSA” sign held aloft waiting for me. She drove me to the hotel. I went to the room which I learned was to be shared with a female author of books on camping. She told me she was there because they had a son involved in Unification Church. They had tried unsuccessful attempts at deprogramming and they had given up on seeing their son again. Then, she said, out of “the blue,” they were contacted by Unification Church personnel and told that if they became active in CAUSA, they could have free access to their son.

I filed this using of children as literal hostages to the devil away in my memory for future reference. I then went down to the reception which was full of almost every delicacy one could conceive. It was there that I met Kofi Annan who would later become the Secretary General of the United Nations. He must have told the organizers that I had expressed concerns as shortly thereafter I was taken aside and grilled by General and Mrs. E. D. Woellner. They said, “who invited you?” I said, “you did.” I was to be watched extremely closely over the next few hours until I was literally put under house arrest and extradited back to Detroit. It was, to make a long story very short, quite an experience. What was even more shocking was to watch the Christians sitting there, very respectfully under the image of Buddha (projected during the presentations) and hearing that “when we say God, we mean the God who is the God of the Christians, of the Jews, of the Mormons, of Unification Church . . .”

Well, I had the conference materials and lists of names of those there. I also had a sense of the danger the organization posed. CAUSA Executive Director Joseph Tully had admitted to me, “ yes, we work with Benjamin Crème AND Tara Center, but we don’t all agree on who that new Christ is.” For the record, I had not mentioned “Tara Center” to him – only that I had seen local Unificationists in the Detroit area present at the November 1981 Crème lecture.

I returned home. Many radio interviews gave me the opportunity to give CAUSA more “free advertising” than they had ever counted on. I had telephone calls from Memphis pastors. Two, saying they were from large Memphis, Tennessee churches called me to tell me the Unificationists had tried to work their congregation over “religious freedom issues.” They said they working to free people such as Everett Sileven and Rev. Moon from “religious persecution.” These godly men further told me they were presented brochures indicating “bubble gum card” Christians such as Tim LaHaye (Chairman), Marlin Maddoux, Jan and Paul Crouch, and many others were named on the brochure for the organization "Coalition for Religious Freedom."  The ministers said they had called these people who had refused to listen. Given my recent personal experiences with this cult, I listened.

We would move to Lake Orion, Michigan in late 1984. In late 1985 I read an article, THE MOONIES AND THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT by a free lance writer, Carolyn Weaver in MOTHER JONES MAGAZINE. I saw it in the small bookstore of Lake Orion where we were very new in town. Ms. Weaver said that by writing this article which featured sad news of Tim LaHaye’s entanglement with Bo Hi Pak, she did not intend to imply that the average fundamentalist Christian supported Bo Hi Pak or Unification Church in any manner. “To the contrary, the average Christian would perceive Bo Hi Pak as an altar boy to the Antichrist,” aptly wrote Ms. Weaver.

At Huntington House’s request, I attended the 1986 National Religious Broadcasters convention held in Washington, D.C. In February 1984, two years earlier, Tim LaHaye had introduced himself to me at that event. We then had a cordial discussion. He told me the threat as he saw it was “secular humanism.” I told him I thought he should take a closer look at the New Age Movement. I did not stay at the hotel, but with Washington area friends in 1986. I’m certain that Tim LaHaye who then lived in Washington, D.C. was not staying at the hotel either. I was scheduled to leave for Colorado for speaking engagements in Colorado Springs and Denver. I wanted to speak with Tim LaHaye personally about Ms. Weaver’s allegations. As I was coming down a Sheraton Hotel elevator, Tim LaHaye was coming up. I said, “Tim,” and he looked over. “Constance Cumbey,” I said. “Oh yes, we’ll get together,” he said.

It never happened and it was probably nobody’s fault. I was scheduled to speak to an Eagle Forum conference in Colorado Springs. My assigned topic was New Age infiltration of the Church. I was wishing I had that article with me, but I did not. The Eagle Forum chairman for Colorado, Jayne Schindler, however, brought me a copy and specifically asked me to comment on it. I mentioned only in passing that it was one more example of how New Age factions were seeking to neutralize and even proselytize the Church. Another speaker was Peter Waldron also of Washington, D.C. Over the past four years I had done many radio interviews with him. He and Tim LaHaye had joint radio ventures in Washington, D.C.

It was a bright post-snowy day in Colorado Springs when the sponsoring committee took me to lunch at Furrs Cafeteria. We were all startled to hear, “paging Wanda Leonard, paging Wanda Leonard” over the Cafeteria’s speaker system.

Wanda left for the page and came back signaling me. “Tim LaHaye is on the phone,” she said. She told me he said “This is the Rev. Tim LaHaye calling from Washington,D.C.” She said “yes.” He then said, “I understand you had a certain speaker named Constance Cumbey speak at your conference.” She said, “yes.” He then said, “I understand she quoted from a sleazy left wing magazine (referring to Mother Jones). Wanda said, “Well, Tim, Constance is here. I think you should speak with her yourself.” He said, “Fine, put her on.”

I said, “Wanda, I am not about to debate with Tim LaHaye on Furrs Cafeteria’s only phone, located at their cash register, at the height of their rush hour, especially when my own lunch is getting cold.” He’ll have to call me later. Wanda scheduled me for a 3:30 Colorado time telephone conference with Tim LaHaye.

Next Week: PART IV: The LaHaye conversation; me as the “new enemy” and the continued incursions of Unification Church into Jerry Falwell’s networks and beyond. “Burying the Cross” with Rev. Moon.


Rudi said...

Hi Constance-
I wanted to let you know how much I appreciate you taking the time to compile and share so much significant, information from your personal experiences with all of us as you have in these most recent blog articles. You continue to be an inspiration to me and I'm sure many others. Thank you -Rudi

"From the end of the earth will I cry unto thee, when my heart is overwhelmed: lead me to the rock that is higher than I."
Psalm 61:2

Eric said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

This cliff hanger has got me sitting on the edge of my seat.
Handling phony brethren isn't fun.

I sure would like to know the details of how the Holy Spirit comforted you during those trying times but that would be another book in and of itself. (Who knows?)

His strength is made perfect in our weaknesses - you go girl!!

God Bless,

Constance Cumbey said...

Rudi, Barb, and Eric



Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Important information on Moon. In addition I like the "Sally on the tracks" approach. For those who are not old-timers, it refers to the old movie theater serials which ended each week keeping the audience in suspense for instance as to how the heroine would be saved after she was tied to the railroad tracks while the train was coming.

While I am sure Constance will give us more information on Biden, today's announcement is no ticket balancing or surprise. Biden worked with Obama to try to pass the Global Poverty Act which is actually a world tax as the money would go to the UN who would determine how it was to be spend.
McCain's wife appears in an ad supporting the act, but he didn't co-sponsor it. or

Cindy and Michelle Lend Voices to Anti-Poverty Ad August 21, 2008

In the comments:
"Before you get all warm and fuzzy over this "Global Poverty Act" sponsored by Obama, google: The United Nations Millenium Declaration and The Millenium Goals. On its face, the Declaration & Goals would change the world if achieved.
What is not obvious is that, by signing the Declaration, the US has agreed to pass legislation (The Global Poverty Act) empowering the UN to enforce our funding obligation. A Global Tax (UN proposed) will force American taxpayers to provide the money.
The increased US financial obligation is 0.7% of our GNP ($65 billion a year, in addition to what the US already pays-backdated to 2002 and going forward to 2015). Total amout due by 2015 is $845 billion.
But even this increased amount will not be enough to satisfy the requirements of the Obama sponsored "Global Poverty Act", which contains billions in added aid to Africa."

Anonymous said...

Constance Cumbey said...

In addition to all the other horrors, Joseph Biden is EXTREMELY CLOSE to Javier Solana. He was quoted in recent history as saying he wished he could vote for Javier Solana for USA president!


Constance Cumbey said...

Nothing has made Lucis (Lucifer) Trust as happy as the Millennium Development Goals.


Anonymous said...

anon. 3:26
That Tiny URL isn't working for me.


Constance Cumbey said...

Hi Betty,

I indeed went already knowing what CAUSA was -- my friends had prewarned me and I had done my own research -- I was surprised to see how many Christians were sucked into it. Joseph Tully said to me, "Mrs. Cumbey, it was extremely unfair of you to accept our invitation feeling as you do about the New Age Movement and Unification Church." I said, "I thought that's why you invited me -- that's why folks usually invite me to conferences. Besides, your letter said you were independent of Unification Church."

Tully replied, "you're sophisticated enough in this area to know better than that." Truer words were never spoken.

He then said, "you saw we were here trying to build a coalition." I said, "yes, and I saw exactly what that coalition was too. This is the most ungodly bridge between the Christian right and the New Age Movement I have seen to date."

Tully replied, "you're sophisticated enough in this area to know better than that." Truer words were never spoken.

That's when I confronted him with the Benjamin Creme speech of November 4, 1981 and Unification presence there. He replied, "Yes, we work with Benjamin Creme AND TARA CENTER, but we don't all agree on who that new christ is." I said, "yes, but you all agree on who he isn't, don't you. You all agree he isn't Jesus and that my friend is the test of antichrist -- not who's currently jockeying for power in your crummy movement."

Anyway, they virtually kept me under house sequestration and arrest -- very creepy folks, but I am happy that I was able to see what their coalition was -- it helped me understand much later.

You keep up your excellent work, too! Thanks for the encouragement.


Anonymous said...

Chris Matthews just stated that Biden puts the apostrophe in O'Bama.
I thought that was a good one.

sweet p

Anonymous said...

This is totally off topic, but I was alarmed by a news article posted on Fulfilled Prophecy concerning Russia establishing a naval base in the Mediterreanan. They are strengthening their ties with Syria.

Read it here:

After Russia's recent invasion of Georgia I was thinking, "Is this a dress rehearsal?" I am certain we are beginning to see the prophecy in Ezekiel 38 & 39 starting to unravel. It erases any doubt in my mind that Russia is indeed "Gog in the land of Magog." Plus, it also further's the notion that this prophecy in Ezekiel has yet to be fulfilled.

Sorry for the interruption in the current discussion.

the70thweek said...

Wow great read Constance. I am waiting anxiously for part 4. Thanks for all you do.


Bleedin Red White and Blue Baby! said...

To all,

I have recently had an opportunity to witness to the mother of my niece and nephew. Until recently she has been a staunch atheist whom dabbled in occult practices. Thanks largely in part to all who post here I have been able to show her the darker side of the occult practices she has been partaking in. While I have always been aware of these things, it has been in large part due to this blog that I have become more detail oriented as to how most of the new age practices work. This is one person I would never have thought I would ever be able to reach, so to all who post their invaluable finds, thank you!
While I have not spoken with many people here in great depth, knowing most here are believers I am asking for prayer for her as well as a issue I am having physically. Long story short, I broke my neck a few years back, which has required 2 surgeries thus far. I have recently begun to experience problems with it again, not the least of which is immense pain and mild paralasis due to nerve inpingement. While a third surgery seems inevitable, your thoughts and prayers would be greatly appreciated. The previous two were extremely difficult on me, that being said I welcome all the support I can get.
Constance, this series is excellent and very informative. Every time I turn around you provide more evidence that the wheat is truly mixed with the chaif.
Anon 10:31, I could not have stated this better myself. It does seem as though this coalition is begining to band together. Especially once you add the threats Russia has made regarding the missle defence system in Poland. Just a couple more characters need to take their places, and we could see the first act of this drama unfold.

"Places, places everyone!"

Anonymous said...

Jd, as soon as I began reading your post I was in prayer.
Those who know scripture were not surprised by Russia’s behavior; the other one is China! Ironically the West has empowered both of them; some believe that was, is the plan! God has a plan too, and His thoughts are for the good, He does “ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL.”

Anonymous said...


Dorothy wrote:

"What is not obvious is that, by signing the Declaration, the US has agreed to pass legislation (The Global Poverty Act) empowering the UN to enforce our funding obligation. A Global Tax (UN proposed) will force American taxpayers to provide the money."

Dorothy is right. I would only add that what many people do not realize is that these so-called "Global Poverty" initiatives usually include a rider with a population control/ abortion mandate.

Our Position: support
Bill Number: S. 2433
Sponsor: Senator Barack Obama (D-IL)
Legislative Session: 2008

The Global Poverty Act would direct the President and the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) to create and implement a comprehensive strategy to reduce poverty worldwide. This strategy would include measurable goals and increased coordination between public and private interests as well as economic and humanitarian interests. Specifically, it would ensure that U.S. foreign policy includes implementation of the Millennium Development Goals to alleviate poverty and promote long-term sustainable development, to improve people’s lives and the health of our environment.....

.....The Sierra Club supports policies that advance sustainable development initiatives and address the root causes of environmental degradation, including poverty and lack of access to basic healthcare. Reducing global poverty is crucial to achieving long-term environmental more.....

Regarding the Millenium Development Goals that the Global Poverty Act would be "implementing"......

"....But what exactly is meant by "sexual and reproductive health" when used in this context at the United Nations? John Mallon, contributing editor for "Inside the Vatican" magazine, sums it up this way. "The first thing that strikes an objective reader in Adding it Up: the Benefits of Investing in Sexual and Reproductive Health Care, by the Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI), is the presupposition that 'sexual and reproductive health' is a good thing. Normally, any kind of health is self-evidently a good thing but, as defined by AGI and their allies at the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) and the International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF), 'sexual and reproductive health' consist of pouring huge quantities of contraceptive chemicals and devices into the world along with so-called 'safe' abortion. 'Health' in this sense, consists in disabling the reproductive system rendering it, in fact, unhealthy. This is frequently done in opposition to the cultural, moral and religious values of the peoples concerned, rendering these programs not only imperialistic but in some cases tyrannical." more....

If it is wrong to impose taxpayer-funded abortion on demand here on the United States, why would it not be equally wrong to impose it on other countries as a viable solution to poverty?

When "World Citizen" Obama replied to a question on abortion saying that answering such a question was "above his paygrade," is it possible that his response implied that he regarded the EU "powers that be" as the "higher authorities" that would trump his -and ours as "the People" - if he is elected president? Doesn't the Constitution say that our government is supposed to be "of, by and for" the people of this country???

Bottom line. We don't need a "President of Africa" or a toadying EU "puppet president."

What we need is a President of the United States of America who is going to stand tall and start thinking more in terms of "charity begins at home."

I come from a long line of fighters..... being the descendant of veterans of the American Revolution, the Civil War, the Mexican War against Poncho Villa, the Two World Wars and married to a Vietnam Vet.

The way I learned it, the proper love for one's country is included in the virtue of piety and in so far as one's country is "family writ large," patriotism is an echo of the fourth Commandment by which we are commanded to "honor thy father and thy mother."
Else why did our Lord instruct the Apostles to "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's?" And why did St. Paul point out in so many words in his Epistle to the Romans 13:1-7 that the civil Ruler is God's servant and that
"he does not bear the sword for nothing."

"....1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Romans 13:1-7

This directly contradicts the radical liberal idea that it is not the purpose and/or responsibility of government to "legislate morality."

I would agree, moreover, that the question on abortion is "above Obama's paygrade" - not in terms of godless EU twaddle, but rather in terms of Holy Writ where the reputed last words of King David read:

"He that ruleth over men must be just.....ruling in the fear of God..."

2 Samuel 23:3

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:31

I don't think your comment is really off topic. There's a lot going on with Russia, that ties into this whole end-time scenario. They have been providing very sophisticated weapons to Iran and Syria for a long time and the whole invasion of Georgia came a week after Israel provided some sophisticated defensive weapons to Georgia. Israel is keeping a low profile on this one, but be sure that they are watching carefully.

What will be interesting to see is whether or not someone tries to take out Iran's nuclear reactors before Bush gets out of office. It looks like the not so subtile Russia is sending is don't do that. It's interesting to ask the question, "what messages are US and Russia sending one another, as well as China."

The show of incredible power that China showed for the opening celebration of the Olympics as Russia marched into Georgia was very interesting to say the least.

The recent choice of Biden as running mate to Obama was a necessary step for the "3 a.m. moment" that we are being prepped for..Will something more dramatic happen between now and November?

There seems to be a renewed emphasis on the ME peace process this week as Condi is going to Israel and Israel's weakened government continues to call for a deal, in spite of the fact that their PM is about to be brought up on corruption charges.

In the meantime, lots of people think they will be raptured ( thanks to Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series) and not have to worry about Ezekile 38-39. I believe that La Haye and others of that persuasion have contributed a lot to a false sense of security to those who think they will be "taken out" before things get very hard.

In certain countries around the world today, our brothers and sisters are not being "taken out" and suffering for their faith, so it must be only Americans that will be spared this distress. Don't mean to be sarcastic, but I just want to point out how our cultural bias might affect the way we see things.

If we don't know the Scriptures, including prophecy, we may not be prepared or prepare our children for what's to come. It may be stating the obvious to say that God left us His Word so that we would be prepared when we see this things coming. The apostasy must come and anyone who holds to a biblical position on Israel will be considered an extremist since the anti-messiah's plan will be the opposite of the true restoration of all things.

Yeshua is coming back to reverse what happened in the Garden. He will reign from Jerusalem and Satan doesn't like that. The nations are conspiring against God's plans and we need to be alert. In the meantime the snake is still busy asking people "did God really say?" When we see it unfolding before our eyes, we should take comfort, that our redemption draws near. It is all related and our only defense is to be students of God's Word and put on the full armor (Ephesians 6) so that when the evil day comes, we will stand and keep standing.

Relative to Constance's comments on LaHaye and the "hi-jacking of the faith", I would point out that being "left behind" in a hebraic sense is a good thing in the context of those verses, where as being taken, speaks of destruction. In Matthew, being taken away is likened to those who were destroyed in the Flood. Being escapist in our thinking will not prepare us for the Tribulation coming on the earth. God has not appointed us to wrath, but Tribulation and wrath are different.

Russia has had all these years since "glasnost" to quietly build up it's military and economic strength, and China is a giant. Personally, I think we need to be watching these events very carefully in the light of Scriptures like Ezekiel 38-39.

If we know the Scriptures when these things happen, we will not be shocked. It's a little like knowing CPR when someone is in an accident. You know what to do, so you don't panic. You are useful to help others.


Anonymous said...

Anon 10:31

With regard to the Russia situation, I am pretty much in agreement with Joyce.

I posted this before, but I think it is worth posting again in case anyone missed it and is interested in checking it out:


Given what has recently happened in Georgia (a crack in the "Perestroika deception"?) and given the fact that during the Cold War many members of the Russian Orthodox clergy were KGB operatives, one is left to wonder what kind of "prestige" Russia is seeking in the Holy Land and from whom she is seeking it?

In his book TO ELIMINATE THE OPIATE, Vol.1 and Vol.2, Rabbi Marvin Antelman has said that the secularist, non-religious "Jewish" members of the Israeli government had largely turned to socialism from the beginning and persecuted religious Jews.


"Around 1900 the chief rival to Zionism among young Jews in Eastern Europe was the socialist movement. Many Jews were abandoning Judaism in favour of Communism or supported the Bund, a Jewish socialist movement which called for Jewish autonomy in Eastern Europe and promoted Yiddish as the Jewish language.

Many socialist Zionists originated in Russia. They believed that centuries of being oppressed in anti-Semitic societies had reduced Jews to a meek, vulnerable, despairing existence which invited further anti-Semitism. They argued that Jews could escape their situation by becoming farmers, workers, and soldiers in a country of their own. Most socialist Zionists rejected religion as perpetuating a "Diaspora mentality" among the Jewish people and established rural communes in Israel called "Kibbutzim". Major theoreticians of Socialist Zionism included Moses Hess, Nahum Syrkin, Ber Borochov and Aaron David Gordon, and leading figures in the movement included David Ben-Gurion and Berl Katznelson. Most Socialist Zionists rejected Yiddish as a language of exile, embracing Hebrew as the common Jewish tongue. Socialist and Labor Zionism was ardently secularist with many Labor Zionists being committed atheists or opposed to religion. Consequently, the movement often had an antagonistic relationship with Orthodox Judaism."

In view of the reports that Russia is seeking to restore her prestige in the Holy Land around the same time as she is apparently trying to restore her old Soviet - style domination of Georgia, perhaps this article is also worth reposting.


Anonymous said...

Here, if you want to, you will have to do your own detective work by reading the information I'm linking to.

My friend sent me this article or

"Christian Conference Says Everything Must Change"
. PETERSBURG - ST. PETERSBURG - A presidential candidate is basing his campaign on change for America.

"That's a message author and speaker Brian McLaren, named by Time magazine in 2005 as one of the nation's 25 most influential evangelicals, has been delivering in religious circles for more than a decade......"

Since I can't follow all of the doings in the Christian community, I decided to see if Constance had anything to say about him. It never ceases to amaze me how many websites cover Constance's information.

The search led to a chapter.
from the book,
Handbook of New Age (Brill Handbooks on Contemporary Religion) (Hardcover)
by Daren Kemp (Editor), James R. Lewis (Editor)

This led back to a comment on this blog pointing to, a
website dealing with Christaquarians.

Well, it looks as if the book sells for around $170. Based on the free book review it isn't worth it as an honest analysis of NA.

Well, how much will Christianity have to change to accommodate a New Age presidency?


Anonymous said...

Hi Dorothy,

You wrote:

"Well, how much will Christianity have to change to accommodate a New Age presidency?"

The following excerpt from Lee Penn's DARK APOCALYPSE: BLOOD LUST OF THE COMPASSIONATE posted Saturday, August 23 by Carrie Tomko on her blog is a must-read!

The excerpt gives us a little hint about changes in Christianity being envisioned with a view to accomodating a New Age presidency and New Age leadership in general.

Anonymous said...

I copied the wrong tinyurl. This is the correct one to read Christians and New Age†
Daren Kemp
pp453-472 in Handbook of New Age, Daren Kemp and James R Lewis (eds), 2007, reproduced with permission from Brill


Anonymous said...


This is one example of how New Age tactics and principles have already been applied in the real world.......

In the excerpt from the article Dorothy linked us to we read:

"Revd Dr John Drane (1991) defines the New Age with reference to Shirley MacLaine, an actress who popularised New Age; JZ Knight who channelled Ramtha, an ancient warrior;....."

I know a little something about J.Z. Knight. A relative of mine is a Federal Employee and works for the FAA. In the 1990's it came to his attention that a lot of wierdness was being disguised as "stress management," "sensitivity training," and "diversity training" which included two men being tied together for 24 hours and even required to visit the bathroom while they were thus tied together.

In one instance of "diversity training" women formed two parallel lines and a man was required to "run a gantlet" during which he was groped and grabbed by the women who also made sexually demeaning remarks while they were groping and grabbing him.

My relative started hollering as soon as he found out about such bizarreries, and I believe it was an ex-nun who lodged a formal complaint with the Insector General, who, at the time was Mary Schiavo.

In the wake of Ms. Schiavo's investigation the "you know what" hit the fan.

It turns out that the purveyor of said "stress management" and "sensitivity training" was a psychologist named Gregory May, and that his training programs were being implemented in other government agencies besides the FAA. Since the FAA debacle, not much more has been heard about similar training programs that may have been imposed upon employees of other governemnt agencies

I will let the following articles speak for themselves, and I apologize in advance for the length of this comment. :-)

NEWSWEEK, March 6, 1995

The Guru And The Faa
Officials Try To Explain How $1.4 Million Was `Channeled'into The New Age
Mark Hosenball
Updated: 12:23 PM ET Feb 11, 2008

"What's a 35,000-year-old warrior spirit from the lost continent of Atlantis doing at the Federal Aviation Administration? The answer may be as elusive as trying to track Ramtha on a radar screen. The New Age guru purportedly "channels" to the modern world through J. Z. Knight, a former cable-TV saleswoman. Since the mid-1980s, thousands of believers have flocked to her luxurious compound near Seattle to watch Knight go into a hypnotic trance while Ramtha issues everything from investment advice to predictions of imminent disasters in a deepmasculine voice. Ramtha's most famous follower, Shirley MacLaine, has now left the fold, and Knight has been mercilessly parodied in "Doonesbury." But the laughter may be decidedly strained at the U.S. Department of Transportation. This week the DOT's inspector general is expected to unveil a two-year investigation into charges that the FAA channeled at least $1.4 million to a Ramtha follower to run "stress management" training programs for the agency.

The FAA first hired Gregory May, a California psychologist, to lead the training sessions in 1984. The idea was to make FAA officials more sensitive to employees' complaints about stressful working conditions. But May's techniques allegedly went far beyond routine psychology. Employees of a private firm hired to run the FAA's management-training center in Florida said May tied them together with strips of bedsheets for 24 hours at a time. One former instructor, Helen Murphy, said she was forced to share a bed with her (male) boss; three women trainees had to shower together, and two men had to visit the toilet tied to each other. FAA personnel attending official sessions led by May were reportedly deprived of sleep and verbally abused. Yet scores of them went along quietly, fearing they would not be promoted unless they won May's approval. In all, May told Newsweek he had trained as many as 4,000 FAA officials. A source close to May says he believes he did nothing wrong.

Murphy and other instructors began complaining to FAA management, and Congress, about May's practices in 1992. But May's contracts weren't suspended until Transportation Secretary Federico Pena took office in 1993 and asked the DOT's inspector general to investigate. Sources say the IG's probe has discovered a host of potential irregularities, including allegations that FAA officials arranged no-bid contracts for May and that some received free private training sessions and other "gratuities." The FAA's top personnel official, Herbert McLure, has been removed as a result of the training scandal, and management is considering disciplinary action against other senior civil-service officials. May is in contempt of court for refusing to comply with a government subpoena, and a grand jury is looking into possible criminal charges.

May's connection to Ramtha is the most startling twist. Sources say the IG's report includes a transcript of a purported conversation between the psychologist and the 35,000-year-old spirit. May declined to discuss his involvement with Knight. But a lawyer for Knight, Doug Kaukl, said that May is one of "hundreds" who moved to Washington state to be closer to her and that Knight has received a federal subpoena for information about May's work for the FAA.

Last week FAA Deputy Administrator Linda Hall Daschle said the agency believes May's training methods were "clearly unacceptable." "Don't haunt us with the past," Daschle pleaded. "We're trying to move forward." But the DOT did allow a peculiar "diversity" training program for FAA controllers to continue until last fall. One controller, Douglas Hartman, filed suit, complaining he'd been forced to run a "gantlet" of women who groped him and made sexually demeaning comments. Hartman's lawsuit is still pending, but the FAA has paid $75,000 to a female controller who claimed she suffered "extreme trauma" during a diversity workshop.

The training scandals may not stop there. Rep. Robert Dornan, chairman of a House subcommittee on military personnel, plans to investigate diversity-training programs throughout the armed services. As for the revelations about the FAA, Dornan said: "It makes me want to ride on trains."



By Neil Modie P-I Reporter

Tuesday, April 4, 1995

Section: News, Page: A1

"A federal grand jury and the Department of Transportation are launching criminal investigations into contracts that paid $1.6 million to a Yelm psychologist accused of using ``cult-like" methods to train federal workers.

A U.S. District Court magistrate judge in Sacramento, Calif., has ordered the unsealing of a letter in which the government contractor, Gregory May, 44 ((age)), told the court that ``he was the subject of grand jury investigations," according to the court clerk's office yesterday.

And Mary Schiavo, inspector general of the Department of Transportation, which last week released a blistering report on May's training methods and the handling of his government contracts, has indicated that an internal criminal investigation by her department is under way.

``I can't discuss it because it involves criminal matters," Schiavo said Thursday on ABC's ``Nightline" news program.

At a congressional subcommittee hearing on Federal Aviation Administration training practices last week, much of the testimony focused on May. The FAA awarded him more than 200 small, noncompetitive contracts between 1984 and 1993 to conduct executive and other training of about 4,000 agency employees.

A psychologist and management training consultant, May is a follower of J.Z. Knight, a Yelm-based ``channeler" who claims to be the medium for a 35,000-year-old warrior named Ramtha.

May moved from Sacramento to the Yelm area about two years ago and has attended classes at Knight's Ramtha School of Enlightenment.

The chairman of the House Appropriations subcommittee on transportation, Rep. Frank Wolf, R-Va., said he intends to press on with his inquiry into FAA training procedures.

``This was a world where procurement rules were skirted, ethical boundaries were violated, personal and professional lines were blurred beyond recognition, employee privacy was ignored and legitimate concerns of FAA and contract employees were dismissed and even covered up," Wolf said at the more....

"Outrageous Betrayal" by Steven Pressman cited in testimony before United States House of Representatives

"Outrageous Betrayal" was cited in a report on the United States Department of Transportation by the United States House of Representatives Committee on Appropriations.[18] This was in reference to a Congressional investigation of Gregory May and controversial trainings given by his company Gregory May Associates (GMA) to the Federal Aviation Administration.[18] The testimony given stated that, according to Outrageous Betrayal, a member of GMA's board had been influenced by Erhard Seminars Training and the Church of Scientology.[18] Events related to this Congressional investigation were reported on by Cokie Roberts in Nightline, and in the book Flying Blind, Flying Safe.[19][20][21] Gregory May was later convicted of mail fraud and sentenced to six months in prison, in April 1996.[20][21]"

ABC Nightline 02/21/95

"Gregory May was hired to train senior executives of the FAA. ABC News Nightline has learned that over five years, May put executives through bizarre training rituals; had control over appointments and was able to continue being funded without competitive bidding."


Wolf seeks probe of FAA violations: Wants strict punishment for abusers.(Nation)

Anonymous said...


I write the following with an extremely heavy heart in the hope that it might in some way be used to help pull some from the fire.

A church member on the island that I live on was diagnosed with cancer and announced to his church that God was going to heal him. He refused the conventional medical treatment (which is free in the UK) that was critically required at that time, choosing instead to three weeks later, pay for a trip half way round the world to attend a Todd Bentley meeting and receive his 'healing'. He did meet TB on stage ... TB did his stuff proclaiming that "... that's the cancer driven right out of his body."

The cancer remained and in this time that had now lapsed it had become inoperable. Last week this man's wife with their very young children and parents buried him!

Please, please, please, if anyone reading this is connected with anyone who has forsaken proven medical treatment in preference to a Todd Bentley or other alleged miraculous healing ministry, BEG them to resume their medical treatment.

I have kept the details here brief and hope you can understand my reasons why but sadly TBs minstry has negatively affected lives here, on a small island half way around the world ... we will never know if this man would be alive today had he never contemplated going to Lakeland.


Constance Cumbey said...

Please use your browser control to refresh this page. Cult expert Steve Hassan will be my radio guest on Tuesday: 2 p.m Pacific time; 3 p.m. Mountain time; 4 p.m. Central Time; 5 p.m. Eastern time and Farmer can tell us what time it would be in the various European zones.


Constance Cumbey said...

Speaking of Ramtha, here's an equally great Evangelical scandal from the crowd (EMNR, CRI) that dedicated themselves to sujppressing accurate information on the New Age Movement under the guise of finally fighting it. This is the conference where security guards were hired (Mark Roggeman, a Denver policeman was in charge -- Roggeman told me the whole story as did Hugh McCallie, who was the first told by Gordon Lewis' secretary at the Denver Seminary). They had J. Gordon Melton, an apostate Methodist minister who is an OPEN FOLLOWER of J.Z. Knight, Ramtha, as well as an admirer of the vampire cults present a paper called A CHRISTIAN RESPONSE TO THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW.

In addition to that, J. Gordon Melton was an official of the Spiritual Frontier's Foundation which regularly chanted THE GREAT INVOCATION (Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust) at its meetings.

Then they used Gretchen Passantino to write an article calling the "security guards" at that conference and example of "an urban legend . . ."



Constance Cumbey said...

That conference was held at the Denver Seminary on March 14-15, 1985. It was pretty much the same bunch that later would be at the Gold Lake Event in October, 1987.

Young Grasshopper said...

To anonymous of 7:06:

I recently did a post on my blog about Todd Bentley- a wolf in sheep's clothing. If you would be comfortable sending me an email (available through my blog site), I think it is very important to get stories like yours out there for those who still think TB was authentic . I live in Florida and there are many members of my own church who went to Lakeland and witnessed what went on there, and have been very unwilling to concede that this man was a charleton- the argument being that the members of my church insist that our God is a God of miracles who can use even the "Pauls" of the world to do miracles in the name of Jesus. I also believe that Jesus is a God of everyday miracles, but not through the intercession of the likes of TB!
Without testamonies like yours that contain actual people's names and locations, I am afraid that the faithful in certain circles ,
are still unwilling to admit that TB was not the beginning of the end times revival that many churches are looking forward to. Thanks for your bravery in speaking up.


Constance Cumbey said...


One of my most important presentations on Javier Solana is available for free downoading by clicking on the "Presentations for download." It is a 10 megabyte presentation. I put it together two years ago -- there is much more I could add to it now as you probably have noticed. Those of you who think Javier Solana is unimportant in this process might want to view it. You are free to burn it on CDs and give it to anybody you want.


Anonymous said...

The Moonies of the Right: Cult leader Sun Myung Moon and the religious right.

Anonymous said...

Hi Constance,

Thanks for the heads up on Gordon Melton. I had no idea that he was an apostate Methodist and a "disciple" of J.Z. Knight.

According to available records, my paternal ancestors were said to be good Methodists.

If done out of malice, shame on Melton for his apostasy!

björn said...

Thanks Constance for a very informative article number III!
Unfortunately the download link does not work for me now...The radio times over here are 10 p.m. in Ireland and GB, 11 p.m. for the rest of Europe, very much looking forward to hear you both on Tuesday!

Rudi said...

Speaking of the Denver Seminary, “Distinguished Professor of New Testament Craig L. Blomberg, Ph. D. has written an August 2008 review of a newly released book titled,
“Beyond the Burning Times: A Pagan and Christian in Dialogue”

At the close of his review, Blomberg writes,
“I strongly recommend this book and urge anyone interested either in understanding historic Christianity or Paganism better or in viewing an exemplary model of what Richard Mouw has called "convicted civility" in action to read this book. And if there are any readers of this review who have neither of those interests, one might reasonably inquire as to why they do not!"

With-in the text body:
“Readers of the work thus come away with a remarkably balanced, wide-ranging and representative set of insights into both religions and worldviews..”

“No one can fairly accuse this book of perpetuating these culture wars. Both writers are remarkably kind and calm in their discussion of each other's views….But for a pioneering venture of this kind, fraught with the potential for so much misunderstanding, erring on the side of too much civility should scarcely be seen as a weakness!”

The book is written by Philip Johnson ( Australian, Evangelical Christian) and Gus diZerega a “self identified Pagan (in the technical sense of the term; in this case, a Gardnerian Wiccan priest)”

Interesting review… Interesting enough that I wanted to know more about Denver Semenary’s “Distinguished Professor of New Testament, Craig L. Blomberg, Ph. D”. The more I read about him, the more it became transparently clear to me why he would give such an unbiased, non-judgemental review and offer such an encouragingly hopeful outcome for those who would take the
“dialogue” between a Christian and a Pagan Wiccan priest to heart. This is just one of the latest examples of those who are making a concerted effort to find Common Ground between the world’s religions. Not only between the three monotheistic faiths but between ALL religions. Craig L. Blomberg will also be, along with
J. Gordon Melton, one of the Plenary Speakers at an October 2008 International Conference taking place in Deerfield, Illinois. I haven’t had time to fully research the other speakers but I won’t be surprised if Constance recognizes the faces and names.
“Trinity College and Graduate School, in conjunction with the Lausanne Committee for World Evangelization Issue Group 16, The Church and New Spiritualities, announces an international conference on Christianity and new religious movements hosted by the School of Biblical and Religious Studies at Trinity College in Deerfield, Illinois, USA on 16-19 October 2008.
The conference will be a gathering of practitioners and scholars addressing the decline of Christianity in the West and the concomitant growth of new unreached people groups expressed in religions and spiritualities such as modern Paganism, New Age, and other alternative spiritualities. Plenary sessions and parallel workshops will address the topics of the future of religion in the West, the make up of the alternative religious marketplace and approaches in engaging adherents of alternative spiritualities." Please see:


Constance, you might be interested in looking through this list of available Resources from
EMNR Conferences since 1994. The 2008 Kansas City Conference has a couple of audio cd’s done by an old buddy of yours ( Bill Alnor ) called “ Discernment and the World of the Watchbloggers”

Also, Mark Roggerman and his Haven Ministry are on the current membership list for EMNR. I did a lot of checking to make sure this IS the same Mark Roggerman who you’ve mentioned as being the Denver policeman- I’m positive it is him. If you need more info to verify let me know. From all I’ve read on his ministry website, he and his ministry are excellent. I was just surprised to see his name listed. Here is his website:

Thanks for the Javier Solana download Constance! -Rudi

”I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
Revelation 1:18

"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
Matthew 16:15

Anonymous said...

My friend, now very retired, is a brilliant woman, a major anti-communist researcher. She was one of the founders of a cult watching group, Cult Awareness Network, after her son was pulled into the Hare Krishnas. She knew J. Gordon Melton because he was a major cult apologist in the 1970s, tied closely to the ACLU and their cult apologist group, Association for the Preservation of Religious Freedom. Melton and she faced off on several occasions. CAN is now a branch of the Scientologist movement, long story.

Back in the early '80s, my friend, though an expert on communist front activity was not sold on the dangers of the New Age movement. I wanted to make her aware of the dangers so on one of her trips to Chicago in the '80s, I took her to what was advertised as a New Age meetup that was open to the public. It was being held in a Unity church on the near north side of Chicago. At the door we were admitted by a guy who was higher than a kite. On the first floor there were tables with book sellers, various group promoters as well as fast food sellers. Although it appeared rather non-threatening, I was taken aback to see a table run by a woman with a chainmail armour and a metal helmet. If I remember correctly, it was an Asatru pagan group, a group associated at the time with Norse, pagan, Nazi related ideology.

It was a very awkward moment when my friend, looking at the other side of the table, asked, "Gordon, what are you doing here?" It was obvious he was helping to run the table. There was no straight answer.

We went upstairs to what appeared to be an attic, because that was where the advertised rituals were going on. It was dark. Many people were in ritual robes. There were vendor tables around the perifery, and I remember some were selling oils, daggers, etc. I still was new to all of this and so didn't know what I had run into. At this point it was all intellectual research.

When we had been up there ten or so minutes, I felt something come over me. I felt a pull, something saying to me Stay. I felt my body and mind response changing. I told my friend this and she said we are getting out of this place right now. She said after being around cults she worked on gut instinct and this was bad. We left the building right away. At that point in time I knew nothing about Satanic activity. It was a dangerous lesson.

In the years I've been doing research on New Age the only other times I've experienced this kind of emotional sickness was when I was around major pro-abortion leaders. The power of evil over novices is not to be underestimated.

Melton's multi-volume Encyclopedia of Religions gives little space to monotheistic religions and much to every strange cult, yet Melton is considered a neutral academic resource when he writes about New Age. When I went to Governors State University and asked the reference librarian what they had on New Age, she referred me to Melton material in their resource center. Is it no wonder that academics who trust each other know nothing about the New Age movement?


David J. Butterfield said...

so... Tim LaHaye is duped, but on what level? Is he a misguided believer or an infiltrator of the faith?

This is not surprising, but is somehow sobering. After I really got into the Word, the Left Behind series became a detriment in my mind, and it hurts to see people quoting from it like Scripture.

Anonymous said...

To Joyce (12:10 PM)

Re: "In the meantime, lots of people think they will be raptured (thanks to Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series) and not have to worry about Ezekile 38-39. I believe that La Haye and others of that persuasion have contributed a lot to a false sense of security to those who think they will be 'taken out' before things get very hard."

Joyce, I don't always agree with you, but I definitely agree with you on your above statement about those who have a "false sense of security."

There is a continual debate about the pre-tribulation theory vs. the post tribulation theory . . . and the post-tribulation theory makes more sense to me. AFTER being tested (by the tribulation), those remaining, who have proven themselves "worthy" enough, will be raptured for their reward in Heaven.

Anonymous said...

I disagree that pre-trib gives a false sense of security. Believers in every generation should never have had such a thing, since persecution has always been a threat. So has war; Christians have never been exempt. There has never been a time in history when believers should let down their guard.

So pre-trib has nothing to do with escapism, false security, or being good enough. Can we actually say that believers who have died were not as worthy as those who would be raptured? Of course not. It has nothing to do with worthiness. It's all about God's promises.

Again, I've never read LaHaye; I get my theology from the Bible directly. And I see pre-trib.

I believe that there will be a 3.5 year gap between the rapture and the 70th week of Daniel, in which the war of Ezekiel 38-39 will be fought. When God destroys the Russian-led forces of Islam on the mountains of Israel, Israel will at last think "peace and safety". In exchange for the promise of a new Temple they will lay down their arms.

Constance Cumbey said...

To download the presentation on Javier Solana go to the weblink. By each presentation there will be a box with a tiny down arrow. Click on it.

Forget about the upload button. That will require my password and for the time being i am keeping it, but you may freely download.


Constance Cumbey said...

Philip Johnson has been a total enemy of my work -- He loves the witches too!


Constance Cumbey said...

In my opinion, Tim LaHaye's motives were:

1. Money
2. Power

And he rationalized what he was doing as being beneficial for the Kingdom of God.

He needs our prayers. He could still turn around and turn many around. I will tell more in Part IV


Anonymous said...

An article on the REAL ID act, written by Rep. Sam Roher. Excerpts-

Under the guise of security, it has been attempted numerous times in the past, even during Ronald Reagan's administration. When former Attorney General William French Smith proposed to implement what he called a "perfectly harmless" national ID system as well as when a second cabinet member proposed to "tattoo a number on each American's forearm," Ronald Reagan responded, "My God, that's the mark of the beast," signaling an abrupt end to the national ID debate during the Reagan years.

Biometric data can be produced from a simple digital photograph of this quality by running the picture of a person's face through a software program which measures and analyzes the unique, personally identifiable characteristics of that face. The process results in a unique numeric code which identifies a person according to facial measurements. You read that correctly. A unique number or "code" is developed from an algorithmic formula which converts a digital biometric sample to biometric "face print" data. Under REAL ID biometric facial recognition technology, you become a number literally worn on your face - a number which is read by computer, tracked by surveillance camera, and distributed worldwide. Clearly, this international standard provides global compatibility of American citizens' biometric data collected through REAL ID.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the defense of a pre tribulation
translation of the saints. I've personally been back and forth in my own mind a few times on the subject, but it bears repeating that Tim LaHaye had nothing to do with my original view on it either. I thought he was a mediocre writer but a top notch fear salesman almost like a Steven King only without the talent. For me "Pre Tribulation" goes back to Hal Lindsey and subsequently back much further to Thomas Darby and his Dispensationalism which is also much maligned these days.
Personally I love Mr Darby and his Bible translation,

Farther along we'll
Know more about it
Farther along we'll
Understand why
Cheer up my brother
Live in the sunshine
We'll understand it
All bye and bye


Anonymous said...

Thanks, Paul!

I just want to add that I completely agree with the topic at hand, that anyone who snarls for having their dirty laundry aired is showing their lack of Christian love, regardless of their theological details. The apostle Paul rejoiced even if rank hucksters were preaching the gospel, as long as it was the gospel they were preaching. Yet that same Paul also said that "without love, I am nothing", so correct doctrine is not an excuse to lack love.

So LaHaye's display of hatred should not be an automatic smearing of pre-trib; a lot of decent people believe it too, no thanks to him. We should always be careful not to assign guilt by association.

Anonymous said...

During the last week when I tried to access this blog I got the message this website couldn't be accessed. I refreshed and it came in with no problem. Today my friend told me she couldn't access this blog. She's with AOL.

Just posting this in case others run into the problem.


Anonymous said...

I agree there are nice people that agree with pre-trib rapture. It's one thing to hold a position on something and quite another to write a whole series of books about prophetic events with fictional characters. His series had a lot of influence on people, which is probably my objection to it.

He may even be a "nice" man. I wasn't addressing his niceness as much as his impact on others.


Anonymous said...

Constance, and all--
Here's a link about NA activities at a recent Denver convention. Note the well-known NA author who was there. Also, note the blatantly celebratory titles of the seminars!

There was a news report yesterday, I think, about a very rare tornado near Denver. Perhaps God is letting us know of His displeasure about NA immersion of the Dem nominee!

Anonymous said...

To and all:

Gee. What a coincidence that the International New Age Trade Show and the Democratic National Convention should both be held in Denver, Colorado within a couple months of each other!

Anonymous said...

Isn't it Denver International Airport that has all those striking antiChristian murals on the walls? I saw them first in "Death in the Air" by Dr L G Horowitz. In fact the dust cover features one of them


Anonymous said...

To all:

Here are the murals Phil is talking about:

Anonymous said...

The question in the pre-trib rapture debate is largely bound up in the question who is Israel? If you believe that "there is a separate entity called a church, instead of "the ekklesia" which is part of the the same called out assembly from the time of Moses, then you will find a separate redemption plan for Israel and the Church. This necessarily affects the way you divide Scripture. The linguistic support for this is simply not there, but most likely because of anti-Semitism translators have imposed this view on Scripture.

If you believe that there is one called out assembly with the physical descendants of Jacob/Israel and those who are "grafted-in" ( the nations who are not physical descendants of Israel) to the olive tree, i.e. the whole called out assembly, you will find that a pre-trib position doesn't hold water. In the Greek Septuagint, written 200 years before Yeshua, the word "ekklesia was used to translate the Hebrew word qahal ( called out assembly). One should ask the question why it is translated "church" when Yeshua says on this rock I will build my ekklesia.

Remember the rules of Biblical interpretation, who, what, where, why, etc. He's talking to Jews...who would NEVER, EVER have understood a new word for qahal ( He was most likely speaking Hebrew to them not Greek). If Yeshua said, "I will build my church" His apostles would be clueless as to what He meant because there was no such entity or word in His day. If He said, I will build my qahal or called-out assembly ( like the ekklesia in the wilderness) they would have read Him in a whole different way.

We need to begin to look at our Bibles for bias on the part of the translators. There are plenty of language tools today that permit us to do this even if we don't speak Hebrew and Greek.

You will be surprised how many theologies would fall apart if Scripture were translated with consistency. Translators take tremendous liberties which can only be explained as bias. The word ekklesia is one very good example. The original language texts of our Bibles are the Word of God, but translations are simply that...If that were not so, then we would not have so many translations on the market. When you compare translations, you see how much room for interpretation there is in the very process of translating. We ALL need to be Bereans and not just accept theologies that are passed down to us as if they were the truth itself.

Today, theologians are still debating, as they find new documentation about the context that Scripture is written in. We need to be aware of this and do our own homework. Lots of people will be deceived in the Last Days, possible some Pastors and Theologians...Just the fact that they don't all agree, should tell us something.

There are many tools you can have on your computers to help you study the Scriptures. Some are even available for free.

By the way, I am not criticizing anyone here, just trying to point you to a few things that might open your eyes to the Scriptures more, in a way that mine have been. When you see it, you can not go back to accepting theologies that are given from things like the "Left Behind" series.

There is a gospel I see being preached in the US that because people believe in Yeshua/Jesus things should never go wrong and we should be always comfortable and without suffering. No one likes to suffer less than I do, however, I recognize that brothers and sisters are suffering all over the world and have for centuries. There is a sense in which the pre-trib rapture theology gives a comfort that "we" will never have to face suffering that the cloud of witnesses who went before us faced.

If the testing of our faith is more precious than gold, then the last generation ( if that is us) might just have their faith tested, as a testimony to others. Will we withstand suffering in our own strength? No...but where evil abounds, God's grace abounds that much more.

Those who are beheaded will reign with Yeshua, according to the Scriptures..I'm just quoting the Bible here (rev 20:4) and I wonder how many in the US will be ready..? The other point which I find really anti-Semitic, personally, is the fact that people think "the Church" will be raptured and then God will deal with "Israel". I submit to you, if you do not attach yourself to the Olive Tree, you will be on the wrong side of the whole end times scenario. What does it mean to say we are "grafted-in". Grafting means to attach oneself to and take on the characteristics and receive nourishment from the same source i.e. the root. We will then produce olives..not oranges.

I wish the pre-trib people were right...It would be so much easier, but if I look at the Biblical pattern, suffering both pre and post Yeshua, seems to be the norm. Does He meet us in the place of suffering and tribulation? I believe so.

Constance Cumbey said...

Bill Alnor has in my experience been a first rate snake in the grass. Mark Roggeman has long worked with cults and living in Denver, for him, EMNR is about the only game in town. The last I talked with Mark personally is 1986. I have no idea what they have done to him or through him since then. I may try and track him down.


Constance Cumbey said...

I had a long and very good talk with Joan Veon yesterday. She has covered the global issues and it is her very learned conclusion that world government is here. She has health issues which are now slowing her down somewhat, but her research is nothing short of brilliant.


Anonymous said...

McLaren gets publicity in USA Today and finds it necessary to denigrate monotheism. or

"...GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. — Brian McLaren, a leader in the "emergent church" movement, says the three Abrahamic religions — Christianity, Judaism and Islam — are very dangerous.
"Christians, Muslims and Jews are, in some ways, the most dangerous people on the planet, and probably Christians being the most dangerous because their fingers are closer to the most nuclear weapons," he told an audience here at Baker Book House....

"McLaren said he never before involved himself in a political campaign, but he feels strongly that Obama is the best candidate to lead the U.S. The ad touched on families to reach out to evangelical viewers of the forum."


Anonymous said...


There are a few points that keep me confused about the whole pre-trib/pre-wrath discussion. owever, I tend to lean to pre-wrath.

One point that keeps me wondering though about your position is if you don't separate 'the church' from 'the Jewish called out assembly' how do you explain in Revelation 12 where the Dragon pursues after the woman. She flees to the wilderness and the dragon goes after the rest of her children, those who keep the commandments AND hold to the testimony of Jesus.
If the woman is Israel- who brings forth her Messiah, the male child who is to rule the nations with a rod of iron, why does she flee and the church is persecuted by the dragon?
They seem to be two separate entities here. I have never heard theologically that "the church" will flee to the wilderness.

Hopefully I worded that correctly, if it is too confusing, I will try again.

God Bless,

Anonymous said...

NOR's feed carried this story: or

Orissa: Hindu extremists burn one nun alive, rape another
The nuns ran an orphanage.

McLaren's mind must be a very strange thing.


Carrie said...

Re the Rapture, there may actually be one, but it may not be from God. Check out the Blue Beam Project.

From the website:

It involves two things. A technologically simulated "second coming" and the reemmrgence of new "MONTAUK" type projects that have the ability to take up a whole bunch of people as in a "rapture" type of situation and whisk the whole bunch into never-never land.

Rudi said...

I should have been more clear when I mentioned Bill Alnor in my previous comment. When I referred to him as Constance’s “old buddy” I was kidding. :~)
I’ll be listening to the cd’s “Discernment and the World of the Watchbloggers” with the purpose of hearing what “the establishment” may be saying about those of us who are communicating about the New Age Movement/End Times on the internet via blogspots. -Rudi

Rudi said...

Constance- I've sent you an e-mail.
Please take a look. -Rudi

Anonymous said...

Joyce, you wrote:

"By the way, I am not criticizing anyone here, just trying to point you to a few things that might open your eyes to the Scriptures more, in a way that mine have been. When you see it, you can not go back to accepting theologies that are given from things like the "Left Behind" series."

Again, I don't get my theology from books or fads, but from scripture, and I have been deep into the interlinears. I have seen much bias, especially concerning women, and never trust a translation.

That said, I disagree that pre-trib rapture is tied to one's view of the ekklesia. The Jews during the Trib. will be those who were in unbelief at the time of the Rapture; they are not part of the ekklesia at this time. Of course individual Jews have accepted Jesus as Messiah, and they are thus part of the ekklesia. But we must not confuse the physical nation of Israel with spiritual Israel.

God made unilateral promises to Abraham and they cannot be broken, ever. There was no ekklesia when Daniel or Ezekiel prophesied, and none of the OT prophets knew what was coming (1 Pet. 1:10-12). God will again turn back to the nation of Israel; note Daniel 9:24--
"Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

Prophecy is not yet sealed; transgression is not yet finished; only 69 'sevens' have passed. While what Jesus did at the cross made reconciliation, individual faith is required for us to accept this freely-offered gift. But God did not throw Israel away completely or permanently; the apostle Paul made that quite clear (Romans 11:1ff). God is not finished with them as a nation. During the Trib. he will seal 144,000 of them and they will evangelize for 3.5 years, and then be taken to safety for the last 3.5 years to "a place in the desert". All who turn to God on the basis of their testimony will be killed.

Something to think about: in the parable of the 10 virgins, who is the bride? Who then are the virgins or friends of the bridegroom?

Anonymous said...

Today I learned the Earth's kundalini energy is relocating to the Andes in Chile, from Tibet, per Drunvalo Melchizedek (the actual name of the author)in his book called Serpent of Light, Beyond 2012, The Movement of the Earth's Kundalini and the Rise of the Female Light, 1949 to 2013. Is it moving because of the conflict China and Tibet have? But then, according to the book, it moves every 13,000 years.
And can you believe, in the upper left corner of the book, on the back cover, where sometimes is a little category label, like sociology, this one is tagged metaphysics/2012. 2012 is now a category?
Oh, yes, it also had a photo of a Mayan crystal skull inside the book.
I learned all this browsing at Barnes and Nobel, where they also have a b&n edition of the Course in Miracles for sale for about 12 and a half. It is packaged to look like a Bible, which I guess it is for the NAs.

Anonymous said...

This over at FP. A call for a mandate for Solana to personally help in the mideast peace process.

Constance Cumbey said...

Many of you have received and many others have asked for copies of my CD Presentation: JAVIER SOLANA - MYSTERY MAN OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER"

It is available for download and you can burn it to your own disk by doing this:

1. Go to my link for "Presentations" on the right side of my blog column
2. The second item is a folder.
3. Each and every item is used in the presentation.
4. Click the tiny down arrow to download each.
5. Might be a good idea to save it to a hard disk in a folder you create.
6. Then copy each and every one to the CD you will create. If you are using Microsoft Powerpoint, you might use that, but I suspect it will work as PPS --

7. I'm going to try it for myself right now and see if it works


Unknown said...

Susanna and Phil.--

At least there appears to be someone in Denver who is not pulling punches when it comes to exposing the NA!
I'll definitely add Dr. Raschke to my prayer list for the Lord's protection.

Here's the link to some of his publications:

Anonymous said...

For my comment at 9:49 to Susana and Phil (posted as "Jay")-I am the same person who posted as, a few posts prior to that.

So, this is the followup to that post regarding Dr. Raschke.

Meant to use; but got my Google/Blogger monikers mixed up!

HK-91 said...


I stumbled across the lawsuit challenging Mr. Obama's citizenship.

I read it and it seems to me to have merit.

I thought I'd ask you what you think of it since you have the legal backround to know.

If it turns out to have merit, my thoughts are, will it ever get a fair hearing, or will it be swept under the rug.

If indeed there is substance to the charges and it is ignored it would be a very good barameter of how dysfunctional things really are both in the political and judicial rhelm.

Could it be the ultimate manifestation of the AlGorebianism of "no controlling legal authority" ?

Here's the link:

( you have to scroll down to the bottom of the page the PDF file is in red to click on it)



Anonymous said...

I have been reading some very scary stuff from the Telegraph in the U.K. and in other sources about Obama's communist affiliations......from Frank Marshall Davis to William Ayers, founder of the Weather Underground.

It appears that the politics of the New Age Movement tend to be Socialist.

Here are some links.

Anonymous said...


Your comment deserves a response, but I wanted to let you know in a couple of hours I'll be on a voyage and am rushing to get ready, so I probably won't have time to respond for several days.


Anonymous said...

Based on a lot of the information that is coming out now, it seems to me that Obama was chosen not only because he was articulate, but because he could be blackmailed.

Put the words into a Google search and see more. A friend who has been following Clinton sent me the following:

"I was listening to the Ro Con WLS radio show today. He is broadcasting from Denver. He was interviewing some reporter from Chicago (never heard of him) and this reporter said that no one gets anywhere in Chicago politics without the blessing of Farrahkan including Daley and especially those in Farrakhan's district (Obama was his state senator). Con said he knew that!!!!!! I suspected that, but didn't know it."

Then there is always the Larry Sinclair material which can be found on youtube.


Anonymous said...

If you haven't looked at this website, you should to understand why there are so many pro-Clinton supporters who refuse to bend to Obama. opens up
They believe she won the popular vote and he won through fraud in the caucuses.

You are seeing power vs power vs power in this election. It has nothing to do with ideals. It's as if the country's population has abandoned strenth through goodness and and as a result has let the country become the devil's workshop.


Anonymous said...


Regarding Obama's socialist connections and how this relates to his sponsoring of the Global Poverty Act that Dorothy told us about, in another ACCURACY IN MEDIA report entitled OBAMA'S INTERNATIONAL SOCIALIST CONNECTIONS we read:

....."Obama's socialist backing goes back at least to 1996, when he received the endorsement of the Chicago branch of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for an Illinois state senate seat. Later, the Chicago DSA newsletter reported that Obama, as a state senator, showed up to eulogize Saul Mendelson, one of the "champions" of "Chicago's democratic left" and a long-time socialist activist. Obama's stint as a "community organizer" in Chicago has gotten some attention, but his relationship with the DSA socialists, who groomed and backed him, has been generally ignored.

Blogger Steve Bartin, who has been following Obama's career and involvement with the Chicago socialists, has uncovered a fascinating video showing Obama campaigning for openly socialist Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Interestingly, Sanders, who won his seat in 2006, called Obama "one of the great leaders of the United States Senate," even though Obama had only been in the body for about two years. In 2007, the National Journal said that Obama had established himself as "the most liberal Senator." More liberal than Sanders? That is quite a feat. Does this make Obama a socialist, too?

DSA describes itself as the largest socialist organization in the United States and the principal U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International. The Socialist International (SI) has what is called "consultative status" with the United Nations. In other words, it works hand-in-glove with the world body.

The international connection is important and significant because an Obama bill, "The Global Poverty Act," has just been rushed through the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, with the assistance of Democratic Senator Joe Biden, the chairman, and Republican Senator Richard Lugar. The legislation (S.2433) commits the U.S. to spending hundreds of billions of dollars more in foreign aid on the rest of the world, in order to comply with the "Millennium Goals" established by the United Nations. Conservative members of the committee were largely caught off-guard by the move to pass the Obama bill but are putting a "hold" on it, in order to try to prevent the legislation, which also quickly passed the House, from being quickly brought up for a full Senate vote. But observers think that Senate Democrats may try to pass it quickly anyway, in order to give Obama a precious legislative "victory" that he could run more....

Anonymous said...


The following article pretty much repeats what Dorothy has told us, but what many may not aware of is this - that Joe Biden tried to rush it through his committee without a hearing:

"In a column posted on the AIM web site, Kincaid noted that Senator Joe Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was trying to rush Obama's "Global Poverty Act" (S. 2433) through his committee without hearings. The legislation would commit the U.S. to spending 0.7 percent of gross national product on foreign aid, which amounts to a phenomenal 13-year total of $845 billion over and above what the U.S. already spends. It was scheduled for a Thursday vote but was moved up a day, to Wednesday, and rushed through by voice vote.

Kincaid learned, however, that conservative Senators have now put a "hold" on the legislation, in order to prevent it from being rushed to the floor for a full Senate vote.

The House version (H.R. 1302) was suddenly brought up on the House floor last September 25 and was passed by voice vote. House Republicans were caught off-guard, unaware that the pro-U.N. measure committed the U.S. to spending hundreds of billions of dollars. Kincaid's column notes that the official in charge of making nations comply with the U.N. Millennium Goals, which are prominently highlighted in the Obama bill, says a global tax will be necessary to force American taxpayers to provide the money.

If the Global Poverty Act is such a "vanilla" piece of legislation, why would Joe Biden NOT allow a hearing before processing it through his committee?

Anonymous said...


"Liberation Theology" is a form of so-called "Christian socialism" that was found predominantly in the Catholic Church after the Second Vatican Council.

In the last analysis, it is little more than Marxism tricked out in Catholic Christian terminology, and the current Pope Benedict XVI issued several condemnations of tendencies within it while he was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Jeremiah Wright, pastor of Barack Obama's church - Trinity United Church of Christ - reportedly embraces and teaches a theology called "Black Liberation Theology"
which is an offshoot of the infamous Marxist oriented "theology of liberation."

March 19, 2008
The Real Agenda of Black Liberation Theology

By Jeffrey Schmidt

.....For the left, black liberation theology makes for close to a perfect faith. It is a political creed larded with religion. It serves not to reconcile and unite blacks with the larger cultural, but to keep them separate. Here, again, The Washington Post reports that "He [Wright] translated the Bible into lessons about...the misguided pursuit of ‘middle-classness.'"

Not very Martin Luther King-ish. Further, all the kooky talk about the government infecting blacks with HIV is a fine example of how the left will promote a lie to nurture alienation and grievance. To listen to Wright -- more an apostle of the left than the Christian church -- the model for blacks is alienation, deep resentment, separation and grievance. All of which leads to militancy. Militancy is important. It's the sword dangled over the head of society. Either fork over more tax dollars, government services and patronage or else. And unlike the Reverend Moss and his kindred, I'll specify the "else." Civil unrest. Disruptions in cities. Riot in the streets.

Keeping blacks who fall into the orbit of a Reverend Wright at a near-boil is a card used by leftist agitators to serve their ends: they want bigger and more pervasive government -- and they want badly to run it." more...


......Trinity United Church of Christ, Chicago is the one church frequently cited by press accounts, and by Cone as the best example of a church formally founded on the vision of Black liberation of theology.[3] This theology has recently become a matter of national debate as intense condemnation of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the most visible exponent of the theology[4], by the U.S. mainstream media forced Senator Barack Obama to distance himself from his former pastor[5] entire article....

Anonymous said...


Isn't it interesting that those who are yapping the most about right wing "Fundamentalist" and other so-called "neo-con" Christian encroachments into the political sphere, are as quiet as mice about the possibility of left wing Black - or any other shade of "Liberation Theology" encroachments into the political sphere that could occur with greater frequency and intensity during an Obama presidency?

Liberation Theology is an example par excellence of the Gramscian style Marxist strategy of "inculturation."

Anonymous said...

Anything, and everything, you ever wanted to know about Dr. Solana, global governance, and the "international order," from the horse's mouth, no less (see "About Us" section):

[It was previously reported that the EUISS is due to open an office in Washington D.C. in Nov. '08.]

Anonymous said...


The DNC is so afraid of Hillary getting the nomination that they made up a new rule (?) that in order to have a floor vote (that all of us can see on TV) and which usually happens, that 800 delegates had to sign a petition to ask for it. However, they only gave the Hillary supporters two hours notice to do this. .They didn't have enough time to do it and they didn't get enough signatures.

Then, they told the delegates that they would pick up their votes at 8:30 am today from their hotel rooms! I don't know if this is the way things are usually done, but it stinks to me. IMO, unless each state gets up with their delegation and gives the numbers for each candidate in front of an audience and TV, how is anyone suppose to know if the votes were counted accurately!

Below is a post from the PUMAs with a little more info:

ABC reported late last night that they did not get the required number of signatures - they only had 2 hours to do it from the time they realized they were going to need the petition to counteract Obama and the DNC’s decision to not go through with a legitimate floor-vote.

(Who knows right now - it maybe ABC’s spin for their biggest advertising client)


Anonymous said...

I would suggest that anyone who wants to learn more about Obama put those two words into a websearch. Here in Chicago the Afrocentric movement may have passed the peak of its popularity, but it still continues.

The Afrocentric movement was the New Age tie to the black community. In addition to the expected literature focused on the black community, in these bookstores there was always a section devoted to the Egyptian religion, the occult and literature by antisemitic authors. At one point there was a branch of the government University of Illinois that focused on Afrocentrism. There was a bookstore in the Chicago downtown State of Illinois building and two others also in the Loop. These bookstore carried Farrakhan material and the movement gave us Kwanza.

I'm not saying that the entire community found this literature acceptable, but many individuals did. At one time I made it a point of visiting as many of these bookstores more than once so that I was not accusing them of something they were not.


Carrie said...

Has anyone read Don't Drink The Kool-Aid: Oprah, Obama and the Occult

Young Grasshopper said...

Some of the commenters here may be interested in my newest blog entry-
No radicals left behind- the oBama friendships

Obama's staged speech tomorrow night has a set designed to look like an ancient greek temple. Gee, how surprising.

Young Grasshopper said...

Votes being counted now. California passed- no votes. Out of 441 delegates- they all passed! Dems have a problem with party unity in spite of Hillary's speech last night.

This is big news!

Anonymous said...

Hmm, 3:29, interesting, especially the link to the review for the five years of EUISS.

Anonymous said...

Leanna & Despizdrejected,

I have a few minutes in an airport, so I'll try to explain what I meant. Israel was the name first given to Jacob when he wrestled with God. He had 12 sons also called Israel. Those 12 sons became 12 tribes. When Moses lead the tribes out of Egypt along with the mixed multitude they were between 2and 3 million. They split into 2 kingdoms ( House of Judah and House of Israel). The Southern Kingdom were subsequently referred to as "the Jews" but only comprise 2 1/2 tribes of the original 12.

This is a long story, but the Northern Kingdom goes into Assyrian exile, NEVER corporately returns and becomes the "fullness of the nations".

I submit to you that as the gospel goes out to the nations, God is gathering not only the nations, but the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel who are in the nations and have lost their Israelite identity. ( God has not lost it because He said in Amos 9 that not one grain would fall to the ground).

The word ekklesia simply means "called out assembly" and there has ALWAYS been one. The word church is a translation of the word ekklesia that confuses the issue. God has always had His called out ones. There is no separate entity called a church. For a moment there is a partial hardening of Israel until the "fulness of the nations" thus all Israel will be saved. God is gathering His elect from the nations to His called out assembly and there is only one called out assembly, it is on the continuum with the assembly in the desert. i.e. we are part of the same cloud of witnesses that went before us.. Now some of these called out will be physical descendants of Jacob, but some will be like Ruth i.e. from the nations who have attached themselves to the Olive Tree. The Olive Tree represents Israel. We are to attach ourselves to it and received nourishment from the same root.

I'm not criticizing anyone, but if you examine the words in their original language you will see that translators have created a separate entity called a church. Call it hair-splitting, but if we don't see ourselves as joining to the Olive Tree, all that we do will be distorted. Non-Jews are to attach themselves like Ruth did to Naomi's people and Naomi's God. When we read the Bible this way the other things begin to fall into place. Take out the artificial divisions "Old and New Testament". IT's all God's Word and it applies to all of us. There are numerous prophecies in the Tanach that have not yet been fulfilled, which means it is not OLD. By reading the Bible this way, we miss the flow of what God has been doing throughout all of human history. He has one redemption plan. The saints pre-Yeshua looked forward and we look back, but it's the same plan, the same called out assembly.

When you divide the Word this way, you will not have a different plan for "the church" and a different plan for "Jews". Israel is composed of more than Jews and if we don't see this we need to go back and do a careful reading of the texts to see how the names are used in each different context.

So much to say about this subject and this isn't really the forum. It frustrates me to see how much of our theology is handed down and even the errors are perpetuated by these mistakes in translation.

Before we ever get to the book of Revelations, we have to understand this or those passages will not make sense.

Start in Genesis and read what God says to the descendants of Israel. He has not changed His mind and the nations are grafted into this wonderful redemption plan too, but we are one body...I think this will become clearer as time goes on.

Hope I didn't add more confusion than help, but it is a lot to explain in a forum like this.

Anonymous said...

correction, I didn't mean always.....the called out assembly started in the Wilderness, not only in the book of Acts.


Anonymous said...

Great article, Young Grasshopper! Love the title.

Anonymous said...

Hi Joyce, you wrote:

The word ekklesia simply means "called out assembly" and there has ALWAYS been one. The word church is a translation of the word ekklesia that confuses the issue. God has always had His called out ones. There is no separate entity called a church. For a moment there is a partial hardening of Israel until the "fulness of the nations" thus all Israel will be saved. God is gathering His elect from the nations to His called out assembly and there is only one called out assembly, it is on the continuum with the assembly in the desert. i.e. we are part of the same cloud of witnesses that went before us.. Now some of these called out will be physical descendants of Jacob, but some will be like Ruth i.e. from the nations who have attached themselves to the Olive Tree. The Olive Tree represents Israel. We are to attach ourselves to it and received nourishment from the same root.


Call it hair-splitting, but if we don't see ourselves as joining to the Olive Tree,

First, please understand that I'm not ignorant of the word ekklesia or its meaning, and am not confused.

That Israel was also called an ekklesia does not mean there is only one. And while there is one Vine, there are two kinds of branches: natural and wild. The natural do not become wild, and the wild do not become natural. It is the Vine that brings unity, and both kinds of branches get their life from the Vine. Nonetheless, there are two kinds of branches; they do not graft into each other.

Take out the artificial divisions "Old and New Testament". IT's all God's Word and it applies to all of us.

Jesus spoke clearly of Old and New in his parable of the wineskins, and Paul wrote clearly of old and new contracts or covenants. It's all God's Word, but we are not Israel and they are not Gentiles. We are not under Law; there has been a change of priesthood that requires a change of law (see Hebrews). The reason the old covenant is old is because it was the "custodian" that brought us to Christ; it was that which showed us our sin, while Christ and the new covenant in his blood is the only way we can be made righteous. The law was powerless to do that.

Again, I am not swallowing tradition or blindly following error; I study the Word intently and have for many decades. There has been much debate on this topic; it's hardly a cut-and-dried matter. So I'm sure each of us could amass experts to back us up, and we still wouldn't agree.

I believe as I do because it's what I see there through interlinears and through "iron sharpening iron" with people of various hermeneutics. The positions I hold were not acquired lightly, and it's somewhat insulting to keep hearing that those who do not agree with your view only hold these views due to ignorance or bad teaching from others. I have studied Genesis--- and Revelation, and everything in-between, intently and for a very long time. Let me assure you that there's nothing lacking in my source material or study habits.

We just disagree; neither side should imply that the other is ignorant or mistaken or lacking clarity or not respecting scripture.

Constance Cumbey said...

To Jay re Dr. Carl Raschke:

Well, he WAS on the side of the angels, figuratively speaking and definitely he needs our prayers. I must confess I am personally extremely disappointed at his newest book in which he seems to have made a complete conversion to the "post-modern" brand of Christianity.


Constance Cumbey said...

Thanks to the readers pointing out to me the EUROPE INTO THE BREACH with its "Solana temporary Solution" -- Yes, the USA politics are important, but I'm keeping my eyes on Solana. He can't be counted out or even down.


Anonymous said...

"- they only had 2 hours to do it from the time they realized they were going to need the petition to counteract Obama and the DNC’s decision to not go through with a legitimate floor-vote."

Dorothy is right. The Dems were shaking in their shoes at the very thought that Hillary's delegates might not toe the party line by "lining up" behind Obama.

This is the typical anti-democratic strategy being employed by a "democratic party" that has morphed into a socialist cult. We are seeing more and more pieces of controversial legislation being imposed on the American people without giving them an opportunity to vote on them. Case in point. The Global Poverty Act.

Also.... activist judges who have usurped the will of the people and even overturned it by legislating from the bench. Case in point. Gay marriage in California.

I have to say that I truly fear for this country if Obama gets elected.

The ironic part is that Obama is probably nothing but the "front man" for the socialist "powers behind the throne."

Young Grasshopper said...

Thanks Susanna!

I must say I am completely confused. I watched the entire role call vote yesterday and it was the most bizarre thing that I ever witnessed.

Some weird-seeming woman with a fake smile was in charge of making the announcement of how the votes were allotted ( between Clinton and Obama) from each state and they started the role call alphabetically around 5 in the afternoon eastern time.

The first couple states(Alabama and Alaska) gave a couple votes to Clinton and the majority to Obama. Some delegates didn't vote at all apparently because the number of votes didn't tally with the total delegates allowed. Then they got to Arkansas and all votes went to Obama, which was to be expected in light of Clinton's unity speech the night before. She had to keep her own state in line, even though one of the Clinton's best friends and the super-delegate and head of the delegation for Arkansas had been murdered the week before and the news hardly even mentioned it.

When they got to California, the spokesperson for California said "we pass". The woman with the fake smile looked a little frightened, then she made the phony smile even wider and said smilingly into the camera, "California passes". So that meant that 441 votes (the largest state!)were not assigned. The role call went on and they got to Illinois, and Illinois, who had something like 185 votes, also passed. Again the repeat of the cheezy smile act, but by now there were obviously some fears going through the convention center and their were some audible boos when Florida voted too.

They got to New Mexico and some guy who was definitely a New Ager talking in a lingo that didn't sound like Spanish or anything I'd ever heard, went through a long speech connecting Obama to Native Americans and then when Suzy Brightsmile asked how they voted, the guy said New Mexico cedes to Illinois. After which the spokesperson for Illinois said Illinois cedes to New York.

At which point we see a skirmish coming through the crowd with lots of security and low and behold it's Hillary leading the blind Governor of New York through the crowd. She takes the mike and with much girlish giggling going on (never saw Hillary giggle before) announces an end to the voting and that she formally is making an acclaimation that Obama is the nominee!

Whoa! What about the delegates who still hadn't voted?, I asked myself. What about the right of all the delegates to let their votes be heard? At this point Obama was only up to about 1600 votes and with over half the states counted for and him needing 2210 it was obvious that things were taking much longer than expected and it was unclear what the outcome would have been since they were all beginning to pass or cede.

Has anyone seen any coverage or pundits talking of this spectacle? I kept flipping through all 3 news channels and I didn't hear anyone see anything about how irregular and bizarre the whole thing was, especially with Nancy Pelosi's state and Obama's state passing.

Sorry this is so long, but I'm hoping someone here can explain to me how this could possibly be democratic? And what actually happened with CA. and Illinois?

Anonymous said...

In the past a state's delegation vied for the ability to say their votes took the total vote over the top for the winning candidate. The agreed upon state delegation attempted to make its vote the very last one heard before the total needed was reached. That's why the passing. Hillary's act pointed out the total sham of the convention. The states didn't even get to brag about their virtues. Welcome Regional Government.

So much has changed over the years. Now they really don't even need a convention as the party determines beforehand who is going to get the nomination. That isn't the way it appeared in the past on television.

For sure the candidate didn't get to say who his running mate would be. That position was voted on by the delegations with much argument. I remember one year the delegates didn't want a "Rockefeller" type as VP, and they were very, very vocal about this when the roll call came. The next convention the roll call for VP wasn't covered and during the voting what was covered was somebody's car coming to the convention. Heck, the disagreements were the most interesting parts of the coverage.

Now you can't trust what goes on or what anyone says during a convention. It's all scripted in advance. That's why so many of the delegates look bored. They just don't want to act for the cameras. Most of the delegates are party players and they aren't stupid. For them it's a fun get-together with no importance whatsoever except for their need to watch the play and cheer on cue for the camera.

The party hacks aren't stupid people. They run local politics. So in the case of Obama they get stupidos to come to Camp Obamas that are run to get idealists to do the dirt work. The stupidos have no idea how politics are actually run and think they are important because they are told so.

I hope I'm alive to see what happens when the stupidos see how they have been used. For instance I don't think Hillary will be able to count on all all of those idealists who worked for her the next time. They will see what was in it for her and how she didn't stand up for their ideals at convention time. Same for Paul followers. It will take Obama followers who are really newbies a lot more time to catch on. As they say, hope springs eternal.


Young Grasshopper said...


Thanks for the clarification.


Anonymous said...


In regards to you question about Don't Drink the Kool-aid, please read the information at the following link

Anonymous said...

Speaking about the O, today's Drudge Report covers a few articles about O's shenanigans. Since I am on the library's computer, I can't cut and paste very well. But one story involved a non-profit group who continued to make ads against O, so the group is being sued, because they somehow are proving they aren't non-profit- in other words, O wants to intimidate the group, to censor the message. Also, his zombies were instructed to call a right-wing radio show that was going to tell about O's deficiencies, so the radio show was distracted from its main points. O sounds like a big jerk.

Anonymous said...

Also Drudge carries a story about an ABC newsman on the public sidewalk taking pics of Dems and big donors, so the police stop him.

Anonymous said...

A clarification. Milt Rosenberg is a University of Chicago academic who has had a daily evening radio discussion show for decades. The show concentrates on academics in all fields and has a call in segment. It can be heard in many states. Rosenberg is not right wing.
is a good summary of the way Ayers and Obama were to have used the $160 million which was to improve Chicago public schools. Only within the last week have the records been opened which showed how the money was spent. Rosenberg had a guest who had examined the records and had asked for a rep from Obama's camp to present the other side. Instead Obama put his phone tree in action to call the show and also the Chicago Tribune, asking the latter to fire Rosenberg.

An interesting quote from the article:
"*Mike Klonsky was a former SDS comrade of Ayers and later helped found a maoist party in the United States, travelling to meet with Chinese leaders in 1977 for their endorsement of his effort here. Klonsky’s Small Schools Workshop received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the CAC headed by Obama and Ayers."


Anonymous said...


Obama, Shaman
The candidate’s post-masculine charisma tempts America in the age of Oprah

A scholarly approach to the dangers of political charisma.


Anonymous said...

"Obama’s charisma, by contrast, is closer to what critic Camille Paglia has identified with today’s television talk-show culture, in which admissions of weakness are offered as proof of empathetic qualities. Talk-show culture is occupied with the question of why we feel so bad, when it is our right under the liberal dispensation to feel eternally good. The man who would succeed in such a culture must appear to sympathize with these obscure hurts; he must take pains, Paglia writes in Sexual Personae, to appear an “androgyne, the nurturant male or male mother.”

Obama, in gaming this culture, has figured out a new way to bottle old wine. He knows that experience has taught Americans to suspect the masculine healer-redeemer who bears collectivist gifts; no one wants to revive the caudillos of the thirties. Studiously avoiding the tough-hombre style of earlier charismatic figures, he phrases his vision in the tranquilizing accents of Oprah-land. His charisma is grounded in empathy rather than authority, confessional candor rather than muscular strength, metrosexual mildness rather than masculine testosterone. His power of sympathetic insight is said to be uncanny: “Everybody who’s dealt with him,” columnist David Brooks says, “has a story about a time when they felt Obama profoundly listened to them and understood them.” His two books are written in the empathetic-confessional mode that his most prominent benefactress, Oprah, favors; he is her political healer in roughly the same way that Dr. Phil was once her pop-psychology one. The collectivist dream, Obama instinctively understands, is less scary, more sympathetic, when served up by mama (or by mama in drag)....

'Obama has revived a cruel mirage, but the good news is that the country has defenses against his brand of redemptive politics. Some of these defenses are constitutional, others cultural. The very strength of America’s religious ideal of redemption has restrained, though it has not entirely forestalled, the development of alternative secular ideals of redemption. A religiously inspired belief in original sin has made Americans wary of succumbing to the Pelagian notion that a mere mortal, however charismatic, can build the New Jerusalem out of purely secular materials....

"Softness has become an asset for candidates who have molded themselves on the exhibitionist model of the Oprah matriarchy...."

Read the article and then remember how the Democratic convention leaders present themselves.


Anonymous said...

I never thought I'd say this but you're brilliant.
I can't even find a crack to try to expose in your last entry.


Constance Cumbey said...




Anonymous said...

Of course you couldn't find a crack in that last entry. I just copied it. I didn't write it. I'm still at the stage where I keep finding I have weaknesses to get past. The man who wrote it was extremely insightful, if not plain brilliant. I hope everyone will read the original piece even though it is a bit long.

The Democratic convention might be termed The Log Cabin Convention as everyone seems have worked their way up to wealth and power in one generation from poverty. They all want to help us little people. I wonder what a country full of nothing but wealthy and powerful people will look like. We will all eat off paper plates as there will be no one to wash the dishes.


Constance Cumbey said...

The story of the ABC photographers being harassed was on Good Morning America today. We generally watch the Today Show, but Barry left it on ABC and so we heard the clip which I found deeply disturbing!


Anonymous said...

Well, if he doesn't make president, he can certainly be a billion dollar poster child for toothpaste. I've never seen a better smile! Is there an orthodontist who can take credit/

Anonymous said...

I've often heard Constance say that the New Age Movement was a wonderful place to be IF one was a BLONDE HAIRED, BLUE EYED PAGAN. Apart from the possible "pagan", I'm wondering how Obama fits in, given Alice Bailey's emphasis on "ARYAN." One can say many things about Obama, but "Aryan," he definitely is not

Just wondering?

Anonymous said...

You can download last night's show on Obama by going to or

Direct link to the audio is:

Apparently many people are trying to get through. My son did, but I haven't yet. Apparently it's quite revealing how the money was spent. For instance money to improve algebra scores was not allowed, but an alternative to the 4th of July holiday was funded.


Anonymous said...


You said:

"First, please understand that I'm not ignorant of the word ekklesia or its meaning, and am not confused.

That Israel was also called an ekklesia does not mean there is only one. And while there is one Vine, there are two kinds of branches: natural and wild. The natural do not become wild, and the wild do not become natural. It is the Vine that brings unity, and both kinds of branches get their life from the Vine. Nonetheless, there are two kinds of branches; they do not graft into each other."

Not trying to offend you by saying that you don't understand, but we do have a fundamental difference here... Wild branches are grafted into the same tree. I think the verses in question are here:

Rom. 11:17 ¶ But if some of the abranches were broken off, and byou, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the 1rich root of the olive tree,
Rom. 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that ait is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.

Ruth never stopped being a Moabite, but she attached herself to Israel, so much so she is the great grandmother of King David. In Ezekiel 37:15-28 two sticks become one with one Davidic King. These sticks or branches, which is another way to translate that represent two houses of the divided kingdom, Israel. Not only are physical descendants present but so are the aliens that dwell among Israel. The Northern Kingdom became "wild branches" in the sense that their identity became like gentiles i.e. in the book of Hosea God says they will no longer be a people, but later on reverses this and says they will become sons of the Living God. This is only possible with the New Covenant, in Yeshua's blood. The new thing that happens is that Yeshua dies, so that there is now direct access to the throne through His blood, no more need for a mediator. He is our High Priest. This covenant was made with Israel, never with "a church". Read below:

Jer. 31:31 ¶ “aBehold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a bnew covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
Jer. 31:32 not like the acovenant which I made with their fathers in the day I btook them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My ccovenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
Jer. 31:33 “But athis is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “bI will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and cI will be their God, and they shall be My people.

It doesn't annul the other covenants. It is a better covenant than the one sealed with the blood of bulls and goats, which can never wash away sin. This covenant is never made with "a church" but with the Northern and Southern Kingdoms and all who would attach themselves to God's people.

It's question of identity. Do we see ourselves as part of the called out assembly that started with the Patriarchs and Israel, with the mixed multitude who crossed out of Egypt, and became a nation. I submit to you a lot of our theology is against the biblical instructions to be attached to the one body that we are called to as His children.

Take out the artificial divisions "Old and New Testament". IT's all God's Word and it applies to all of us.

You said;
"Jesus spoke clearly of Old and New in his parable of the wineskins, and Paul wrote clearly of old and new contracts or covenants. It's all God's Word, but we are not Israel and they are not Gentiles. We are not under Law; there has been a change of priesthood that requires a change of law (see Hebrews). The reason the old covenant is old is because it was the "custodian" that brought us to Christ; it was that which showed us our sin, while Christ and the new covenant in his blood is the only way we can be made righteous. The law was powerless to do that."

The word New covenant could be better translated newer because the old are not canceled. The Torah certainly points us to Yeshua, but that doesn't annul it. He said not "one jot or tittle would pass away". He came to fill it to the full measure until it's overflowing with meaning. The word "law" is a poor translation of Torah, which means "teachings, goal, instructions" There is no Greek word that adequately translates the word Torah. Ask a Jew how they see their Torah. They will not see it as just laws. God said to Joshua, "it's your very life".

What Yeshua did was establish it and empower us to live it out properly, empowered by HIs Spirit. He gave proper interpretation to it, which was huge in His day, as you had many schools of rabbis teaching different things. He not only lived it, but did it perfectly, so now we know how to do that, by following His example.

You said:
"Again, I am not swallowing tradition or blindly following error; I study the Word intently and have for many decades. There has been much debate on this topic; it's hardly a cut-and-dried matter. So I'm sure each of us could amass experts to back us up, and we still wouldn't agree."

I agree with that, which is why it is pointless to pursue this. I was simply giving my opinion about T. LaHaye because he came up in the conversation.

You said:
"I believe as I do because it's what I see there through interlinears and through "iron sharpening iron" with people of various hermeneutics. The positions I hold were not acquired lightly, and it's somewhat insulting to keep hearing that those who do not agree with your view only hold these views due to ignorance or bad teaching from others. I have studied Genesis--- and Revelation, and everything in-between, intently and for a very long time. Let me assure you that there's nothing lacking in my source material or study habits."

I'm sure you have and sometimes it's just a matter of perspective. You see yourself as part of a church and I would say to you that you could enter in more fully if you thought of yourself the way Ruth did. You are not going to become a Jew, or a physical descendant of Jacob. It's a question of seeing the Scriptures in continuity. The foundation is clear that God is dealing with a called out community, who are descendants of the 12 sons of Jacob and anyone else who wanted to join to them, as long as they were not leading Israel into idolatry. That's another story.

"We just disagree; neither side should imply that the other is ignorant or mistaken or lacking clarity or not respecting scripture."

Wasn't meaning to say that at all, so if it sounded that way to you, I'm sorry. I do get frustrated with the theological molds that have been constructed for people. You are not viewing things from my position, so it's natural that you won't understand what I mean. There are theologians today who are asking new questions because of findings of Dead Sea Scrolls and greater understanding of Second Temple Judaism. One place you might want to look is the Jerusalem Perspective. That's not the only group doing this kind of research, but it's one you can look at to get an idea of what I mean.

There are many Jews that have discovered their Messiah and are bringing another point of view to the table.. That is based on their understanding of the language and the Hebrew mindset.

The Reformation does not have to be the end of our discoveries. I believe God is continuing to reveal things from His Word to people in our day, Not saying extra-biblical revelation, I'm talking from the texts of Scripture, which have been wrongly interpreted at times for many generations. I think when Yeshua comes, we might all have a few surprises i.e. things will not look exactly as we envisioned.


Anonymous said...

Did anyone say Obama was running the New Age movement? I do remember there was a lot of noise about how a certain individual who didn't look Aryan was doing it for "the people." He cared about them. He didn't try to raise individuals who looked like him. He promoted the blond, blue-eyed, physically fit, types. What was in their brains wasn't taken into account which accounted for their idolizing him, the real leadership probably thinking "the stupider the better."

Some people don't care who they work for if the pay and power are high enough.


Carrie said...

Anonymous 1:10...

Thanks for the website. I think I'll skip this book.

Anonymous said...

No no no
I knew when you were quoting. I know what a quotation mark signifies.
I'm not completely daft.


Anonymous said...

That was for for Dorothy.


Anonymous said...

On my computer some of those quotation marks didn't come thru very clearly, so I thought there was some confusion. At least I learned that you read the comments, and I appreciate you letting me know that. Thanks.


Anonymous said...

Constance (11:21),

Saddened to hear of Dr. Raschke's jumping ship, so to speak. Prayer is always the first line of defense; so I'll keep praying.

As I was sitting here at the computer, I decided to go and get my paperback copy of your book (HDof the R). I picked it up at a secondhand book sale several years ago (cost was about $3.00). Having grown up in a Christian (no "NA Christs; no Replacement Theology; no Liberation--whatever the color!) household:just "Christ, and Him crucified)--I was very appreciative of the research and bravery that went into this book. God has obviously blessed and protected you throughout your work to expose this evil. My prayers for your safety and health will be added to the many others, here.

I was the person who sent you a link last month, I think, about the papers of Nieves Hayat de Madariaga that had not yet been catalogued. Also, I sent a link about an incredibly-referenced book on how Hollywood is deeply influenced by NA, Astrology, and the occult. Hope you have had a chance to look at these. I may have posted as either Jay,or Joan.

Speaking of another Joan--I made note of your note of talking to Joan Veon, recently. I heard about her through a radio program called the Southwest Radio Church, and bought her book, "The Antichrist and a Cup of Tea." How do you think her book squares with what you know of Dr. Solana and the EU/Med status today?


Anonymous said...


Not trying to offend you by saying that you don't understand, but we do have a fundamental difference here... Wild branches are grafted into the same tree.

I must not have been clear, sorry. I was saying this very thing: that branches are grafted into the vine or tree, not into each other. Natural branches, though not having to be grafted in, are still not the trunk or vine. So whether natural or wild, they both join to the vine or tree trunk, not to each other. And of course the vine or trunk represents Jesus.

Ruth never stopped being a Moabite, but she attached herself to Israel

There was no other ekklesia at the time, so this is simply a case of someone converting to Judaism.

If a Gentile becomes a Christian, you say they are being grafted into the ekklesia. But what if a Jew becomes a Christian? Weren't they already part of the ekklesia? What is it they joined when they became a Christian? This is a problem for the view that the ekklesia written about concerning Christianity is the same as that for Judaism.

When Paul writes about natural and wild branches, the context indicates he's not talking about Israel and Judah, but Abraham's descendants and Gentiles.

This covenant was made with Israel, never with "a church".

Look at the context where Paul wrote about the new covenant:2 Cor. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The contrast between old and new is between the letter and the Spirit. This in no way can be construed as representing Israel and Judah.

It doesn't annul the other covenants.

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Take out the artificial divisions "Old and New Testament". IT's all God's Word and it applies to all of us.

I've already addressed this. It is Jesus who made the distinction, as well as Paul and the writer of Hebrews. Again, it's all God's Word and we greatly value it all, but Jesus did much, much more than settle a rift between Judah and Israel; he reconciled all mankind: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal. 3:28)

The word New covenant could be better translated newer because the old are not canceled.

Col. 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

You are not viewing things from my position, so it's natural that you won't understand what I mean.

Who says I don't understand what you mean? Disagreement is not failure to understand. Rest assured that your views are not a surprise to me; I've heard them all before, many times.

I think when Yeshua comes, we might all have a few surprises i.e. things will not look exactly as we envisioned.

Hey, something we agree on! ;-)

Well, I think we've hijacked (pun intended) this topic enough. But do please consider the possibility that you may not be giving enough weight to the context in some cases.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:23 P.M.

Response to your assessment of "O"

"O sounds like a big jerk."

In C.S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia (The Final Battle) there is donkey named Puzzle whom the enlightened apes dressed up in a lion suit in order to trick everyone into thinking the donkey was the real lion Aslan.

In my opinion, "O" is like Lewis' donkey named Puzzle.....especially given all the "Obama messiah" jive.

While I can only speak for myself, I must say that this campaign has certainly given me a new appreciation of the Democratic donkey mascot! Especially since it seems to be increasingly losing its original meaning in proportion to the degree in which the Democratic party is becoming increasingly anti democratic!

By the way, here are the links to the articles you mentioned that were posted on Drudge.




Here is a related article that I found published by the same Chicago Tribune.


by Mark Silva

The University of Illinois has refused to release records related to Sen. Barack Obama's service for a nonprofit educational project that put him in contact with activist William Ayers, a 1960s-era radical and now education professor.

The university's Chicago campus maintains that the donor of the records that document the work of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge has not handed over ownership rights. The university says it is "aggressively pursuing" an agreement with the donor, and as soon as an agreement is reached, the collection will be made accessible to the public. The university has not identified the donor.

The Obama campaign says the senator does not have control over these records or the ability to release them, adding that it has made many documents related to Obama's life available to the public and that "we are pleased the university is pursuing an agreement that would make these records publicly available."

The National Review this week posted an article online saying that the institution had initially deemed the records open to inspection, but that the university subsequently reversed its position. Tuesday, the university said that there had been a misunderstanding.

Ayers is an education professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. In his youth, he co-founded the Weatherman organization, later known as the Weather Underground Organization, which espoused violence in the pursuit of political change.

In the 1990s, Ayers was instrumental in starting the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which was awarded nearly $50 million by a foundation to help reform Chicago schools. Obama was the first chairman of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, and Republicans have been attempting to underscore his ties to more...

In my opinion, the mere fact that Ayers and his wife are involved in the education business at all - and not in jail - is newsworthy!

Here is what other news sources have to say about Obama's involvement with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge and former Weatherman (terrorist) William Ayers.

Thursday, August 21, 2008
Obama's Failed Leadership at Chicago Annenberg Challenge

When Daley says shhh, library is quiet on Obama

CAC Doc Drop: Obama Has More Than Ayers To Worry About Now

School seals records on Obama's service with radical Ayers

And finally, this gem from The Corner on National Review Online.....

Thursday, August 21, 2008

Daley on Ayers & Obama [Andy McCarthy]

"Jim Geraghty’s post at The Campaign Spot on Chicago Mayor Richard Daley’s take on the close relationship between former “community organizer,” hard-Left agitator, infanticide-facilitating Barack Obama and former terrorist, hard-Left agitator, proudly America-hating Bill Ayers is mind-blowing. As Jim writes, Daley said, “It's really unfortunate. They're friends. So what? People do make mistakes in the past. You move on. This is a new century, a new time. [Ayers] reflects back and he's been making a strong contribution to our community."

Bombing the Pentagon is one of those “mistakes” that people make? Bombing the U.S. Capitol, too? And a police headquarters? Most of the people I know of who’ve made such “mistakes” now receive their mail at the United States “Supermax” Penitentiary in Florence, Colorado.

And Ayers hasn’t “moved on.” When he “reflects back,” he brazenly says he’s sorry only that he didn’t do more in the way of terrorism, and maintains that America—the “mean country” his friend Michelle Obama hasn’t seen much reason to be proud of—makes him “want to puke.”

Moreover, the “strong contribution” Ayers has made to Chicago’s “community” has mainly been the urging of education and criminal justice policies that have led to surging crime and failing schools ... and the launching of his friend Barack Obama’s career.

Stanley Kurtz is doing heroic work, and good for the McCain campaign to jump into the fray. If Daley feels the need to run this kind of preposterous interference, you can only imagine what must be in the Annenberg Challenge documents Obama supporters are working so hard to keep suppressed.

08/21 10:33 AM

Anonymous said...


This is from American Thinker:

August 27, 2008
Annenberg documents show extensive contacts between Obama and Ayers

Anonymous said...


The YouTube version of the Obama/Ayers ad that is causing the recent political brouhaha has been posted on the World Net Daily site as part of an article entitled:

Obama warns stations not to air 'radical' ad

Lawyer's letter, appeal to Justice evoke Kerry's attempt to quash Swift Boat vets

Posted: August 26, 2008
12:47 pm Eastern

Anonymous said...

Thanks for posting all of the details on the Annenberg story Susanna. I should have added more when I talked about the Milt Rosenberg flap. Going back I can see my information wasn't clear enough.

I don't know if one of your tiny links goes to

And from National Review Online:
"In fact, by 1997 Obama and Ayers were collaborators on a far more significant level. They sat together for several years on the board of the Woods Fund, a left-wing Chicago charitable organization. There, they doled out tens of thousands of dollars to such beneficiaries as the Trinity Church (where Obama was a longtime member and where another Obama mentor, Jeremiah Wright, preached a radical, anti-American brand of Black Liberation Theology) and the Arab American Action Network (co-founded by Rashid Khalidi, a Yasser Arafat apologist who has supported attacks against Israel and now directs Columbia University’s notorious Middle East Institute, founded by Edward Said)."

Maybe to succeed in the US these days you have to be totally corrupt? It sure looks like it. On the one hand they preach idealism about America from the stage while living lives that are totally the opposite.


Anonymous said...

This is Bill Clinton's speech at the convention. On Drudge O's speech is posted. My wife says the speeches are the same. (I didn't see much of either, so I can't say, and it is getting late here in the east.)

Anonymous said...


In response to your saying

"I don't know if one of your tiny links goes to"

No. My tiny links did not include the article on the Obama - Ayers Coverup. Thanks for posting it.

Here are a few more "history lessons" for anyone interested.


Obama’s Real Bill Ayers Problem

The ex-Weatherman is now a radical educator with influence.

23 April 2008

Obama once visited '60s radicals

And here is something interesting. Two of the Weather Underground criminals were reportedly pardoned by former President Bill Clinton before he left office....Linda Evans and Susan Rosenberg

Anonymous said...


Apart from the fact that Clinton's pardoning of two terrorists took place in spite of the Oklahoma City bombing by another homegrown terrorist, Timothy McVeigh, Clinton's pardon of Linda Evans is especially interesting given the fact that Clinton visited Moscow as a student in the 60's during the Cold War and demonstrated against the Vietnam War while he was studying in England.

THE 1992 CAMPAIGN: The Republicans; Bush Questions Clinton's Account Of Vietnam-Era Protests and Trip (New York Times)

THE 1992 CAMPAIGN: The Republicans; Bush Escalates Attack on Clinton For His Anti-Vietnam War Protests


Anonymous said...

Fire in the Night
The Weathermen tried to kill my family.
30 April 2008
During the April 16 debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, moderator George Stephanopoulos brought up “a gentleman named William Ayers,” who “was part of the Weather Underground in the 1970s. They bombed the Pentagon, the Capitol, and other buildings. He’s never apologized for that.” Stephanopoulos then asked Obama to explain his relationship with Ayers. Obama’s answer: “The notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was eight years old, somehow reflects on me and my values, doesn’t make much sense, George.” Obama was indeed only eight in early 1970. I was only nine then, the year Ayers’s Weathermen tried to murder me.... (MORE AT LINK)


Anonymous said...


In this verse, Paul explains:

Eph. 2:12-14 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, 1aexcluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to bthe covenants of promise, having c no hope and d without God in the world. But now in aChrist Jesus you who bformerly were cfar off 1have cbeen brought near 2dby the blood of Christ. For He Himself is aour peace, b who made both groups into one and broke down the 1barrier of the dividing wall,

They were to become one new man, but it was the Gentiles who were far off and being brought near, not the reverse. The dividing wall was an invention of Second Temple Judaism, never required by Torah. Most of the early converts from the nations were already god-fearers attending the synagogues and going to the Temple.

There were covenants...What was changed is the priesthood. We don't have to go through a Levitical priest to enter into the holy place.

Moses looked forward to Yeshua's coming. All the saints of Hebrews 11 are part of the ekklesia. They were not "Christians" but believed the promises and as such, it was credited to them as righteousness. It is one called out assembly, those who looked forward to Yeshua's day and those that look back.

I just want to address this one issue, and I'll drop this. Here's what you said with regards to my comment saying Ruth was "grafted into the ekklesia":


"There was no other ekklesia at the time, so this is simply a case of someone converting to Judaism" referring to Ruth.

In fact there was no Judaism in Ruth's day. What there was, was a called out assembly called Israel, that would have been all Israel, as compared with just the House of Judah ( i.e. the Jews). Judaism is really a post Babylonian exile thing, and simply did not exist prior to that. You had the whole called out assembly who were called to walk with God i.e. obey Torah.

During the time of King David, the kingdom is more or less unified as "all Israel". Ruth did not follow Judaism, because Judaism simply did not exist.

Judaism is really something that develops over the centuries after the exile when the Jews tried to codify the Torah. By the time we get to the Second Temple there are several different sects of Judaism, including the Pharisees, which Yeshua would have aligned Himself more closely with in terms of their beliefs about the Resurrection. The fact that Yeshua was always critical of the Pharisees, doesn't mean that He totally disagreed with them. He disagreed with their hypocritical attitudes. Look at this verse:

Matt. 23:2 saying: “aThe scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses;
Matt. 23:3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.

Yeshua encourages His followers to do what they say, but not what they do..

I do look at context, and if you read carefully, the Jews are not all of Israel, and God is not done with the other 10 tribes. They have become the "fullness of the nations" of Romans 11 in fulfillment to a promise given to Ephraim in Gen 48:17, so there is lots going on that we need to look at prophetically. Another important passage is Eze 37:15-28 where God is going to make the "two sticks" "one" i.e. the house of Judah and the House of Israel. By lumping everyone together and calling them Jews ( which the Bible does not do) we miss some very important points about the restoration of God's ekklesia.

The chapter in Hebrews is referring to a change in the priesthood, not a change in the called out assembly. The author of Hebrews quotes from Jer 31:31-33 cluing us in that he is referring to a newer covenant with the house of Judah and the House of Israel. This covenant is in the blood of Yeshua who now gives us access to the throne in Heaven instead of the Holy of Holies in the tabernacle. It's a very specific passage referring to the High Priest's role.

The writer of Hebrews is undoubtedly preparing the Jewish believers for the destruction of the Temple. Remember Paul was still doing animal sacrifices in the book of Acts, which he fulfills the rights of purification. The early believers in Yeshua were still going to the Temple, the synagogues and observing Torah.

I agree, the Bible must be studied in context, and we must understand who the writer of Hebrews, a diaspora Jew, was addressing and why.

With Paul's epistles also we must be really careful to do this or we might get the idea that he was against Torah, which he was not. Torah is God's loving instructions to His people, but it will not save anyone...that's all that Paul was saying. Since it was God who gave Torah to Moses, we can never say it's wrong or done away with. Yeshua is very clear about this in Matt 5:17-19.

We can agree to disagree. You have a very traditional Christian view of the Scriptures which I'm familiar with.

I see the continuity of the Scriptures and believe that what God is restoring is Israel i.e. the house of Judah, the house of Israel and the nations who attach themselves to the God of Israel...all of this in Yeshua. That is the prophetic fulfillment of Eze 37:15-28 which is clearly about another covenant, the covenant of peace. Since this has never been fulfilled in the past, it's safe to think it will be fulfilled in the future.

Chap 37 starts with "this valley of dry bones" i.e. the physical resurrection of Israel, then the Spirit coming into them, then the two sticks becoming one under a davidic king, King Yeshua.


Homophobic Horse said...

Obama is going to proclaim himself God at a plywood pagan temple.

How much more antichrist can you get?

Anonymous said...


This could turn out to be a brilliant pick for VP on McCain's part. On the surface, I already like her.

"Palin is strongly pro-life and belongs to Feminists for Life.[8] She opposes same-sex marriage, but she has stated that she has gay friends and is receptive to gay and lesbian concerns about discrimination.[8] While the previous administration did not implement same-sex benefits, Palin complied with a state Supreme Court order and signed them into law. [32]

She supported a democratic advisory vote from the public on whether there should be a constitutional amendment on the matter.[33] Alaska was one of the first U.S. states to pass a constitutional ban on gay marriage, in 1998, along with Hawaii.[34]"

According to her biography, Governor Palin lives her pro-life beliefs:

"On September 11, 2007, the Palins' son Track joined the Army. Eighteen years old at the time, he is the eldest of Palin's five children.[10] Track now serves in an infantry brigade and will be deployed to Iraq in September. She also has three daughters: Bristol, 17, Willow, 13, and Piper, 7.[11] On April 18, 2008, Palin gave birth to her second son, Trig Paxson Van Palin, who has Down syndrome.[12] She returned to the office three days after giving birth.[13] Palin refused to let the results of prenatal genetic testing change her decision to have the baby. "I'm looking at him right now, and I see perfection," Palin said. "Yeah, he has an extra chromosome. I keep thinking, in our world, what is normal and what is perfect?"[13]"

Here is the rest of her bio:

Anonymous said...

Classical Philosophical realism states that objective reality is made up of material(body) and non-material (soul), joined together in substantial unity. Now, if we split this into body and soul we come up with animalism on one hand and spiritualism on the other. Both of them deny the existance of either matter or non-matter, existing independently by itself.

What follows is a chain reaction, deny objective reality, you deny objective truth and objective morality. When there's no right or wrong,someone has to come up with the standards for right and wrong. The state or powers that rule mostly do. People comply because they reject reality. They can then be brainwashed etc. Rejecting reality can create an un-realistic and insane world order.

A lot of Eastern philosophy/Gnosticism rejects matter or reality.

Some branches of Christianity indirectly influence moral relativism, by subscrbing to decartesian principals that reject substantial unity.

I was watching a forum on Abortion in Canada and there was a Muslim Lawyer who said that the soul is formed after the body at about 5 months or so and not at conception.

If you knock out substanital unity, you knock out objective reality or open your doors to it.

We live in a Sophist world order, where reality, form, substance, words are under tremendous attack.

You can't have monotheism without Classical Philosophical Realism.


Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

I have to add that reality exists independent of whether we think it does or not and is independent of man, just so people don't think I am supporting the oneness theory.


Anonymous said...

Hi Savvy,

In response to your saying,

"Some branches of Christianity indirectly influence moral relativism, by subscrbing to decartesian principals that reject substantial unity."

This is true.

First of all, let me say that truth cannot be "created." It can only de discovered. And if something is objectively true, it will be true no matter who discovers it.

Natural philosophy ( based on "common sense" ) teaches us that there are a handful of objective truths that we do not refer to in terms of what "we believe," but rather in terms of what "we KNOW." These truths are the "first principles" of philosophy and are called "axiomatic" because they are self-evident and require no proof. These are the principles that anchor the mind into reality, and in the absence of these principles that require no proof, we would not be able to prove anything else.

Among these first principles is "the whole is always greater than any of its parts," and "being" ( i.e. "existence exists")

Another axiomatic first principle of philosophy is this: "Before anything else can be predicated of a thing, BEING must be predicated of it." In other words, before I can be or do anything else, I must first "be."

Once we understand this, we can understand Descartes' critics who responded to Descartes' famous "cogito ergo sum" ("I think, therefore I am") by pointing out that Descartes appeared to err in terms of "reversing his ontological predicates."

On what grounds can anyone give priority to thinking over being? How can anyone think before he exists?

In the wake of Descartes "enlightened" pronunciamento, natural philosophy began to seriously go downhill.

TEN PHILOSOPHICAL MISTAKES by Mortimer Adler is one book that
gives good insight into some common philosophical mistakes that pervade modern life.

Young Grasshopper said...

Sorry to disagree Susanna. Palin may be a good Christian but in choosing her, Mc Cain just cinched the vote for OBAMA.

I am deeply disturbed by this. It proves to me that Obama is the antichrist.

My very last blog entry if anyone is interested:


I'm done.

Young Grasshopper said...

Bad link.

Palin may be a good person, but Mc Cain needed to win the presidency, not chose a good person who has absolutely no experience.

Anonymous said...

I hear what you are saying, Young Grasshopper. I was hoping for Romney or Pawlenty myself.

But as soon as I heard that neither Romney nor Pawlenty was going to be McCain's pick, my heart sank.

Remember, I live here in Massachusetts, so I heard the news earlier this morning.

The problem with Michael Bloomberg is that he is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage. There is no way that I, in good conscience, could support the idea of McCain picking him as his running mate.

"Bloomberg supports abortion rights, stating: "Reproductive choice is a fundamental human right and we can never take it for granted. On this issue, you're either with us or against us." He has criticized pro-choice politicians who support pro-life candidates. His comments may have been directed at New York Senator Chuck Schumer, a supporter of abortion rights who supported Bob Casey, who is pro-life, in the 2006 Senate election. [30]

Bloomberg tends to be liberal about his policies towards many social issues; for instance, Bloomberg supports governmental funding for stem cell research, calling the Republican position on the issue "insanity,"[31] while also supporting same-sex marriage with the rationale that “I think anybody should be allowed to marry anybody". [32]

He continues to support the strict drug laws that have been established in New York City, despite having admitted to smoking cannabis in the past and "(enjoying) it".[33]"

As for "cinching the vote for Obama," I don't know if I agree that you are right, but I will certainly pray every day until after the election that you are I think you would probably want me to do.

In the mean time, no matter how God allows the election to play out,(history is "His-Story," not "our-story") I am thanking God that McCain has picked an apparently morally upright - albeit unknown - person as his running mate, and didn't cave in to the pro-abort, pro gay marriage RINO's.

Young Grasshopper said...

well said, Susanna, however sadly in order to reclaim the countryfrom the far left, there needs to be a middle road taken in between. The far right road that was taken 4 and 8 years ago, proved to be a disaster.

I just heard Mc Cain intoduce her, and I couldn't believe what he just said. He said," I have found someone who values their priviledges over their responsibilities.'

Hopefully he was just having a senior moment, but that certainly wasn't the best start to the introductions.

Young Grasshopper said...

Track, Trig, Willow, Bristol and Piper.

I really hate to become a thorn in everyone's side here, but even a ding-bat artsy right-brained Democrat, back-sliding Christian like myself wouldn't give my kids names like that. Maybe Dorothy can find out what church Sarah Palin attends.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Senator McCain simply misspoke. But even if he did, I can tolerate that better than I can deliberate lying.

And as for experience, what experience does Obama have? Unlike Palin, Obama is not the governor of Illinois, and he is running for President, not vice president. In fact, I would even go as far as to say that as governor of Alaska, Palin qualifies for President at least as much if not more than Obama.

As for "taking the middle road," this is precisely how we have already been schnookered into allowing this country to be dragged closer to the "radical left."

"Taking the middle road" is nothing more than a leftist euphemism for "redefining the center." And as I see it, every time the center has been thus "redefined," it has been "redefined" in increasingly radical liberal terms, not conservative.

The "left" as it exists today is, by its very nature, revolutionary and tends towards lawlessness - and if you give it an inch, it will take a light year.

The fact that the late John F. Kennedy has been described as more or less what conservative Republicans are today may be precisely the measure of just how far to the left the Republican Party has strayed by "taking the middle road."

We hear a lot of talk about "change."

Maybe the so-called "middle road" ought to become "the road less taken" - for a change!

Maybe it's time to stand our ground - for a change!

Anonymous said...

Lack of experience,bad judgment, corruption allegations, and a reference to a New Age administration?

Miss Alaska is going to be ripe fruit for the Democratic Party's political machine, in spite of her school- marm looks on stage today.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 2:05

You may have just given yourself away.

On one of your links, Sarah Palin is described as

"44 years old pro-life Catholic, lifetime NRA member...."


In all of the reports I have read, Sarah Palin is described as a faithful member of the Assemblies of God denomination and regularly attends church services.

When Sarah Palin was growing up, the current Alaskan District Superintendent for the Assemblies of God, Ted Boatsman, was her junior high pastor at Wasilla Assemblies of God Church. She is currently attending Juneau Christian Center whose pastor is Mike Rose.

Anonymous said...

Did you even look at the links on the first website you listed, Alaska Pride?

Eleven White Nationalist Websites
Whoever put together the other links is really into all of the far rightwing information sites.

New Age is a resurgence of Nazism.

If they are against her, it gives me one very big reason to support her.


Young Grasshopper said...

Thanks for the link Susanna. It does say in that link however, that they were not really sure what church Palin attends but would hopefully know by the end of the day.

However, I attended an Assemblies of God church for 10 years before moving to Florida, and they are very, very strict. As a dance director I was asked to help out with their annual Christmas production one year, and I had the opportunity to choreograph a simple liturgical dance for the youth group. I provided costumes for the occasion from my ballet company. The pastor's wife nixed them because they showed too much chest. (They were typical ballet tunics revealing the upper chest only.)

Therefore I'm a little surprised that Palin as a member of an Assembly of God church, would have chosen such an immodest outfit for the cover of Vogue.

I noticed from your link that CWA is also happy with McCain's choice of Palin. That also gives me little assurance in view of Constance's views on Tim La Haye. I belonged to that group for 7 years and was selected to be their Communications Director for Pa. in the mid to late 90's. CWA was partly responsible for the election of George Bush as we were constantly lobbying on Capitol Hill during the Clinton years. (I voted for Bush in 2000 but not 2004, which is when I became a Democrat). Bush's successful wooing of evangelicals have caused them to be maligned ever since, so swinging in the same direction twice does not bode well for the success of the party in November. It will be viewed as pandering to the religious right once again and will turn off the moderates who are on the fence about Obama.

I truly feel this selection of a running mate has put the nail in the coffin for a Republican win in November, but hopefully I'm wrong. Time will tell.

But like you, I know that God is in control, and so it doesn't matter anyway.

I'm just depressed, as I truly don't think I can vote for Mc Cain now, in light of his age and the very real possibility that it sets up a beauty queen in oil country who is absolutely green in terms of experience to be president. I'll be sitting this one out, I'm afraid.

Young Grasshopper said...


I truly apologize for that link. NO in the heat of the moment I didn't look at the sidebar. I keep telling you I'm pretty stupid-at least compared to the rest of the people here, and especially compared to you, I guess now you'll believe it.

I logged in as anonymous because I was on the husband's computer and couldn't remember my darned Blogger password!

Young Grasshopper said...

Just to add a little humor here- I sold a painting over the weekend through my blog and it was the most I had ever received for a painting to date. I was thrilled.

On Tuesday morning I got ready to ship it and I took it out to the porch to spray it with a retouch varnish to even out the dull areas. Instead, I picked up a spray can of Elmer's mounting adhesive and sprayed the whole darned thing with it. I knew something was wrong when it took on a white cloudy haze and I could no longer see the paint!

So the painting was ruined and I had to work all week to try to make a duplicate of the one I'd ruined.

I really am a dingbat.

Anonymous said...

Young Grasshopper, I am kind of half-joking here, but why does a woman have to look like Mammy Yokum ( from L'il Abner )in order to avoid being dubbed a brainless bimbo?

As I said, I was personally hoping for Mitt Romney, but I can understand why he wasn't chosen. The reason why is because there is a certain percentage of ignorant boobs in this country who, when they hear a person described as a "Mormon," immediately envision some grubby-looking hayseed sporting a beard six feet long and living somewhere up in "them thar hills" with six or more wives in tow.

People with views similar to yours call Rush Limbaugh all the time, and say that they are going to "sit out" the election.

This is a big mistake. And I will tell you why.

There have been one or two occasions when I "held my nose and voted" Republican because my bigger concern had to do with who was going to be appointing the next U.S. Supreme Court Justices that we would then be stuck with until they either retired or croaked.

One more thing to put this thing in perspective.

There are those wags who are opining that a McCain win might just as well be thought of as the equivalent of "Bush 3."

I don't necessarily agree with everything radio talk show host Michael Savage says, but he hit the nail right on the head when he replied,

"Better Bush 3 than (Karl) Marx 2."

Congratulations on the sale of your painting. I hope the duplicate turned out well.
And occasional screwup does NOT a dingbat make! :-)

Anonymous said...


Make sure you see all of the older posts. Start enjoying the weekend with these.


Anonymous said...

Click play for an eye-opening look at the facial expression technology software available right now in the computer/movie/gaming industry.

"Lying sign and wonder"?
Could quite possibly be part of the future technological tools the NAgers and/or AC will use?

Scarily realistic and creepy--especially when "she" roars in frustration!

I actually own one of the pieces of software shown(Lightwave 3d), and use it for my company. I had previously only marvelled at its realism capabilities. Nowadays, however..., I'm thinking: "how might this be used for evil, vs. good?"

Anonymous said...

Constance and all--

The topic is communitarianism and how it underpins the negative societal and ethical situation we, the world, find ourselves in right not. The practicioners are not trying to hide this, either. It's a sort of "this is how we plan to take over the world" scenario.

Sorry to be off-topic; but this is a must read to understand the current of what is going on definitely behind the scenes of world government and leaders.

This show the philosophical basis behind current forms of Nazism; NA; the occult; humanism, etc. I admit, it's long, but the information is priceless. or

Anonymous said...

Ok, all--

Last comment from me on this subject, tonight :-)

This is the anti-communitarianism link I used to get to the previous post. Please do read. It surely shows how you can pull off something intrinsically malevolent right under people's noses and still have some folks not notice ( or be dismissive) until it's too late.

Anonymous said... said...,
I wouldn’t say this is off topic.
This blog has been addressing these issues for as long as I know. As I explore the links you have provided [good source] I note this quote which demonstrates perfectly the ill advised US involvement in Yugoslavia, and its encouragement of Russian adventurism.
“In Ledeen’s most recent publication, The War Against the Terror Masters, he reiterates his beliefs outlined in this 1999 Machaivelli book. He specifically praises: “Creative destruction…both within our own society and abroad…(foreigners) seeing America undo traditional societies may fear us, for they do not wish to be undone.” Amazingly, Ledeen concludes: “They must attack us in order to survive, just as we must destroy them to advance our historic mission.”
Now we are in the thick of this mess, can it be undone? The political inertia seems to say NO! But we still have the Word of God to preach peace in the storm, to rest in Jesus Christ, the captain of our ship, of our faith, To warn others:
Let me recommend a new “NEWSWITHVIEWS” commentary,

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