Tuesday, October 24, 2006

Jeffrey Lundgren's Ohio Execution

Jeffrey Lundgren’s Ohio Execution – déjà vu the Summer of 1983

Carrying the word on the New Age Movement to many diverse elements was, to put it mildly, a challenge. Support came from where I often least expected it. So did the opposition. I decided early on that apart from refusing to give dignity to a known cult leader (e.g., Rev. Sun Myung Moon, Roy Masters), I would not insist on a test of doctrinal purity to those I delivered the information. My theory was that if folks were being conditioned by various false doctrines and prophets to receive the antichrist, let me go give them the bottom line. That could well make it wasted conditioning.

In 1983 I was asked to speak to a summer camp of RLDS fundamentalists. The doings were at a site near Independence, Missouri, site of the world headquarters of the Reorganized Latter Day Saints Church. The RLDS is clearly a branch of Mormonism. I was told that nearly a thousand individuals were in attendance from all parts of the populated world. The attendees included the head of the RLDS church in India, himself also a former Hindu guru. It was a very hot sticky week that was frankly a trial for me, although I must say that most of the people there were very kind to me and listened respectfully to what I had to present.

I was loaned by the conference organizers to a Bott radio station in Independence, Missouri. Richard Bott interviewed me. The Bott station is a well respected Christian one. During the interview, Richard Bott asked me, “how do people get into this stuff?” He was referring, of course, to the New Age Movement. I answered him by saying, “the scriptures tell us clearly that no man has at any time seen God. Moses came as close to it as anybody ever did; however, even with that limited exposure, God had to put him in the cleft of the rock, and cover him with his hand to keep the exposure from killing him. Even that extremely limited exposure left Moses with such incredible brightness that he had to wear a veil over his face to avoid blinding Israelites he later encountered.”

I went on to explain that the average New Ager was seeing and hearing things the rest of us weren’t experiencing. The scriptures (Deuteronomy 18) gave a very comprehensive list of forbidden spiritual practices. Those rules were not given us by a benevolent God for the purposes of being a “cosmic killjoy.” God, who made us and loved us enough to send his Son to die for us, gave us those rules for our own protection. We are not smart enough to second-guess God on rules he gave us for our own protection. When we cross that line and disobey God, in a sense we are repeating the sin of Eve. When people cross that line and engage in forbidden spiritual practices, they very quickly report various mystical experiences, which almost always is powerful beyond their present perceptions. If one has not seen the sunlight, a flashlight could look very impressive. A New Ager dabbling in the occult and having a subsequent predictable mystical experience that he can not explain by past experience, just “knows” that he “knows” that he has “seen God.”

I was returned to the camp for my last presentation before departure. As usual there was a vigorous question and answer period. One in particular stood forever embedded in my mind. A comparatively portly man, approximately 10-12 years younger than myself, challenged me. He asked me point blank if I had ever read “The Book of Mormon.” I answered in the negative. To be honest, I had tried to read it many times, but had never succeeded. It had seemed to me to be a patchwork combination of the King James Version of the Bible and a Zane Grey novel about the American wild, wooly west.

My challenger persisted. He said, “we believe that our founder, Joseph Smith, did see God, and that is how it is written in our “Inspired Version” of the Bible. I said, “Sir, all I can tell you is that is how the Bible, as I know it, reads.”

The conference chairman mercifully rescued me from the challenger. He said, “now, we invited Mrs. Cumbey here to educate us about the New Age Movement – not to debate theology. She says she has not had an opportunity to read the Book of Mormon. We will leave it at that.

The crowd sang very sincerely, “God be with you till we meet again.” Whenever I spoke at other Christian churches in the Kansas City area at later times, I would frequently have many people there come and greet me again. I was glad to see them.

I was told by the organizers that a few months later they were organizing materials for their membership on the New Age Movement and suddenly the committee doing so recognized obvious parallels between New Age and their own church’s teachings. The head of the RLDS church in India, the prominent real estate developer who organized the conference, and many others resigned their church memberships. Others retained their church membership, but have continued to expose the New Age Movement for their fellow RLDS’ers.

A few years later, I was startled to see the unforgettable face and body of the man who challenged me at that conference flash over television. It was Jeffrey Lundgren. I checked with the conference organizers who confirmed the worse. He had formed what he believed to be a “reform” version of his church, truer to the teachings of Joseph Smith. His delusions broadened and deepened. He turned on the family that followed him and his cult to the State of Ohio and murdered the hapless Averys.

Today Jeffrey Lundgren was executed. I suggest everybody re-read Deuteronomy 18 for a good list of those forbidden spiritual practices. The problem with too many fundamentalists is that sometimes they are just not fundamentalist enough. They should seriously consider the fundamentals of what God says, “don’t touch, don’t do.” And above all, they should consider the all important fundamental of THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

May the Lord have mercy on us all!
Thank you for pointing me in the direction of Deuteronomy 18. I hope to read that chapter tonight. Much to my chagrin, it is not even vaguely familiar to me.
I only heard a small bit about him on the car radio. (And I am not 100% certain it was even him who was the subject of the news.) The newscaster said something about how the executed killer said God told him to kill the people. If it was Lundgren, that is an interesting point to consider.
Opinion piece from the Washington Post
Rising Radical Center
By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Tuesday, October 24, 2006; Page A19

"...There has long been talk about the rise of a "radical center," made up of voters essentially moderate in their philosophical leanings but radical in their disaffection with the status quo. This looks to be the year of the radical center. If it is, the Democrats will win. And if they win, their task will be to meet the aspirations of a diverse group of dissatisfied and disappointed Americans. Not an easy chore, but one that certainly beats being in the opposition...."

If you've been reading here, you know where to find the headquarters of the Radical Middle and the Radical Center.
Lundgren was a cult leader. "Lundgren and his wife had been closely involved with a breakaway sect of the Mormon church, called the Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints...Then in 1981 he told Alice that he had realized that the Church was a political organizaiton, and that he had finally figured out how to manipulate it; he predicted that within six months he would be invited to join the Melchizadek Priesthood." This happened in less than six months. In 1984 he moved to "Kirkland, Ohio where he became a guide to the temple that had been built by Smith."

He was kicked out of the church. The Avery family had money he wanted. He got the $10,000. They fled. Unfortunately for them they came back to the group and he had all five family members killed because they brought a note of discord he couldn't handle. Guns, promiscuous sex, the ability to con people, an inflated ego, theft, a taste for unlimited power and an inability to face reality brought the community to disaster.

Also, another jailed community member said:
"Looking back on that time, Luff now blames the Reorganized church's faith, and its parent, Mormonism, saying its teaching left him and others susceptible to someone like Lundgren who claimed to have divine visions, including one in which he became Christ hanging from the cross on Calvary.

"The Reorganized church faith "is contingent upon revelation," Luff explained. "People are constantly having visions and hearing voices of some form, some type of revelatory experience, seeing angels. If they don't have this, according to the Book of Mormon, it's as though there had been no redemption made."

From what I've read, Lundgren was a conman from the very beginning. I doubt that he believed God told him to do it.

I haven't heard the name Roy Masters since the 70's. I used to listen to him quite a bit. Can you tell me why he is considered a cult leader? Just wondering.

This article talks about cursing and its commonness in American culture - if you read the article all the way through (there are two virtual pages to it), the author makes reference to the words "fundamentalist" and "evangelical" (implying that they have become insulting or derogatory names, equivalent to swear words). Because this article does use offensive words as examples of speech that gives offense to others, it is not for those who do not have "asbestos ears."

If you read both pages carefully, the words "evangelical" and "fundamentalist" are used as examples of swear words, at least by implication. As Constance says, if anything, we are not fundamentalist enough, whatever monotheistic religion we might practice.
As regards Roy Masters, just google him. You will see that he uses New Age forms he calls "dynamic meditation," etc,
Warning: this is pretty grusome, but Just last week a man jumped to his death after killing his girlfriend who was trying to kick him out of their shared apartment located above a voodoo shop in New Orleans.

After he killed her, he dismembered her, boiled her head on the stove and cooked other parts in the oven, over a weeks time until he killed himself.

Voodoo, new age, Islam, etc., it's all wacked!
Though God gave everyone a brain and free will, there are very few people who are leaders. Some suggest that the followers are 90 percent of the population. I think the reason so few people post here is because followers do not want to take the time and make the effort to become leaders.

But anyone can try to become a leader. This website gives people a chance to be leaders. It is so easy now thanks to the internet. In the past those of us who took an independent line worked very hard to accumulate the information to support our positions. Now, it's click click. Anyone can help in the effort to identify the change agents.

That's what community is about. It's not about "attaboy" comments. I encourage anyone interested in their future and the future of their children and grandchildren to contribute to this website. We can argue and point out falicies to each other, but it takes a vigorous community to keep our freedoms.

Everytime I come here and see no comments from others, I am discouraged in my efforts to make others aware of changes taking place.

By the way, do check out Carrie Tomkos link on the first page. The woman is a wonder in providing information on the changes promoted by some in the Catholic community.

I've had some computer problems, lately. I think they may have been solved. Hopefully, I'll be back posting comments soon. Lundgren certainly sounded like a conman and paid the price for his crime. Now he has to face God.
I was just reading an article about the Pope encouraging Christians to return to their roots. Although refreshing, I am concerned that this will be used by women's rights and homosexual groups to proclaim the Pope's intollerance.
I post here from the Dallas airport where I am awaiting my connecting flight back to Detroit. This is the last leg of my trip home from San Jose. Many wonderful people were at both conferences! Herb's presentation was first rate and the Eubanks are thanked for putting it together. Dr. Monteith's conference in California was equally inspired. Thanks to all!

I'm afraid I've been very busy with mid-terms and haven't posted for a couple of weeks. I hope to sit down share some info this week.


Apparently there was a story in the NY Times that said that if you are carrying a credit card with an RFID tag you are putting your private information at risk. You need to call the card issuer to find out if your credit card has such a tag. The information can be read right thru your purse, thru paper, etc.

Dorothy, thanks for posting that - I just (as of this morning, 10/31/2006) saw a story on microchipping humans. Apparently, they're going to become mandatory in humans someplace (didn't catch where). I am a deeply private person, by choice, and I don't like the intrusion into my privacy that microchips provide.
Robin, was it this article?

Britons 'could be microchipped like dogs in a decade'
That may very well be the article, Jason - I heard only a very brief fleeting reference to microchipping on WBBM-TV.
This past September the Organization of Islamic Conference asked the UN Human Rights Council to set aside time to discuss the issue of religious defamation and to do so in light of Pope Benedict’s remarks concerning Islam. Essentially, the OIC sought the Council to cite the Pope for religious intolerance. The timing of this is interesting. Two Special Rapporteurs (Jahangir and Diene) had already prepared reports for presentation to the Council. The Council’s mandate was that they report on defamation of religions and the implications for article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).

Article 20, paragraph 2 of the ICCPR states: “Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.”

Special Rapporteur Diene has certainly voiced his opinion that Pope Benedict is in violation of this article. To summarize (and paraphrase) Diene on the issue:

- The Catholic Church should clean up its own back yard.
- The Pope associated Islam with violence and thus contributed to Islamophobia.
- The Pope’s speech was a mockery of freedom of speech.

To read Diene’s remarks, see http://tinyurl.com/ybeajp and http://tinyurl.com/yjcuhy

What I find more troubling is Special Rapporteur Jahangir’s remark as follows: “While states should be expected to set up measures and implement laws, non-state actors pose a more complex problem that still needs to be addressed.” (See page 8 of the Council Monitor here http://tinyurl.com/yy39v3

It appears to me that the framework has been established for the Council to launch further attacks against the Catholic Church. As I have been researching this, I encountered a very pertinent legal analysis of the UN’s defamation of religions resolution coming out of the Boston College of Law. This analysis points to the resolution’s potential as well as current abuses. To get a full appreciation of what they intend to do, I highly recommend reading this paper available for download at http://tinyurl.com/vmh28

Now here is a test for those of you who have been following the Cumbey writings for some time. Go to this website and see if you can pick out what she wrote at Wikipedia and another source that was copied by the writer of this article.


It's Russia's daily online.

Again, (Hi, just browsing, great stuff, but too much to do to write before) about ROY MASTERS, tell us about him. I just heard of him from a 'christian' sister, who has some trouble staying solid in Christ in ways I can't seem to understand....enough said. She was taught under him for most of her life and in her trials goes to his church and his books for help. One thing for sure, no matter how much I tell her to read the Word, she has yet to do so. She is deeply into 'health/herbs/healing by the mind' which I thought stemmed from a stint with a Seventh Day Adventist group in town, but I see her creeping more and more in this direction......maybe a history on Masters could help?

By the way, Dorothy mentioned recognizing the change agents: Ditto on that. Solomon said, nothing is new under the sun....and the USA is right back in the garden dialoguing with the devil.....you know, did God really say? Sin brings death and here we are at this article...nothing new under the sun.

My mife took a religion class two years ago and you came to speak to the class. I attended as well with her for moral support.

Anyhow, I know that you are very interested in Archives and I thought you may want to research the Wayback machine. Just google it. Basically, it is a archive of the internet that makes a copy of it every two months from 1996 on. It has over a pedabyte of stored pages and adds a terrabyte every two months or so. I just can't get over that someone has a Pedabyte of memory. You don't get to use that word to often.
Thanks for sharing the information. It is very useful for my future. keep sharing

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