Saturday, April 15, 2006

Madariaga and H. G. Wells' 'Open Conspiracy'


A key book that helped me understand the New Age Movement in 1981 was H. G. Wells’ THE OPEN CONSPIRACY: BLUEPRINTS FOR A WORLD REVOLUTION. I first read of it in Marilyn Ferguson’s THE AQUARIAN CONSPIRACY. I then found the title, predictably, on the shelves of Detroit’s then leading New Age bookstore, The Mayflower.[1] I took more than my fair share of ridicule, mostly from self-styled cult “experts” in the Christian community for pointing out the obvious similarities between what was happening and how H. G. Wells said things should and would happen. Particularly among many proclaimed cult-experts in the evangelical world (EMNR, CRI, John Warwick Montgomery), there was denial of any political networking or even “political consciousness” among New Agers. I will have more to say about this later.

Lately, materials I have reviewed concerning, inter alia, Javier Solana, brought passages from my old H. G. Wells’ readings to mind. I found myself absently mindedly wondering if there were perhaps connections between Salvador de Madariaga, Javier Solana’s fondly mentoring grandfather and Wells. After all, they were contemporaries. Thanks in part to two of my favorite persons, the guys who invented, and in part to my personal bookshelves, I discovered indeed there were – and they were strong, even close connections. Madariaga was an admirer of H. G. Wells plans for the new strong one world government. This information is also contained in my growing library of Salvador de Madariaga’s books. A telling reference is MORNING WITHOUT NOON Memoirs[2] by him. Happily, Madariaga is more readable than many of his peers. He had his faults, but he was not a dry or boring writer!

Madariaga included Wells in the list of great men “that converged on Geneva” in his League of Nations’ days. He records his recollections:

Such was the concentration of great men that converged on Geneva as moths drawn towards the light, that I found myself one evening to dine with Rabindranath Tagore and also, at another place, with H. G. Wells. In my usual absent-mindedness, I had accepted both invitations. I disentangled the conundrum by dining with Wells and going to have coffee with Tagore.[3]

It appears there was sometimes friction between Wells’ and Madariaga. He said there was contrast between the two personalities he met that evening: “while Tagore was nobility incarnate, Wells was vulgarity at its best-worst.”[4]

Despite this, all things being equal, Madariaga often preferred Wells’ to Tagore. He drew parallels and contrasts between the two men. Their messages were the same. Their styles were very different. A sensitive person, Madariaga professed to shudder at Wells’ crudeness. But he feared Tagore’s apparent delicacy was not strong enough to put their one-world government plans over the top. Wells’ maybe were. Tagore’s theme, per Madariaga was “the unity of mankind, and his argument, forcible and convincing, led to the need for developing the League of Nations into a world government.

Madariaga was firm in his conviction (and angered at the USA for blocking same) that world government was needed. Wells was the better person to put it over the top:

“Wells, however, had his own fascination, and in a parallel with Tagore he was by no means the loser; for he did, at least, hold his own. Tagore sitting in an ample summer chair on which he spread his vast figure and flowing robes . . . But when I listened to Wells, whose talk nearly always covered the same ground, I could not help preferring the Westerner’s concrete, directly, original approach, to the Easterner’s more vapid, general and, so to speak, goody-goody preaching. Wells was ever at his best in the context of action, cause and effect, mechanics of society, evolution of production and consumption, strains and balances between nations and the vast avenue of progress his mind opened for men out of the (then) present mess. Perhaps, would I then think, his very vulgarity helps to make it taste more modern.”

Madariaga’s 1973 book did not give a time frame apart from the obvious Geneva encounter. But I do know positively of at least one other time. That was an apparent 1940 symposium with speakers H. G. Wells, S. De Madariaga, J. Middleton Murry, and one C. E. M. Joad on what else? The New World Order – Its Basic Principles”. The four gentleman gathered before their live audience at a non-specified date that year in Central Hall, Westminister under the aegis of the National Peace Conference. England was under Nazi Germany’s attack. It was predictable that there would be concern for how society would be organized when all was over and that’s what this conference was about.

I’m sorry, but shades of much of this, peace conferences and all (not to mention the anti-religious aspects of that seminar) are reminding me of a literary character named Julius Felsenburgh in Lord of the World. You can reference that by clicking on the side link to my blogspot.

Back to the 1940 symposium. Madariaga seemed from the transcripts publicly irritated that evening by some of Wells’ apparent crudeness. Speaker J. Middleton Murry (a claimed ‘pacifist Christian’) had things to say to both. He said the two men were “both in essential agreement and I am in agreement with them . . . that what we are up against is an appalling lag of the human consciousness.” It was explained, per Mr. Murry, as “a major biological crisis.” Now, Madariaga had spoken to the “consciousness crisis” as well.

Folks, where did I hear that language in my anti-New Age career? “Consciousness,” “New World Order,” . . . In his speech that evening, Madariaga said, “the revolution must be in the inward man”. Now, as I said in my last post about Cardinal Danneels alleged daily changing theology, that whether that was good or bad was the direction in which it changed.

Madariaga made intriguing references in his speech that evening to "that angel that had the pride to sacrifice himself so that God could be great and henceforth went to the other place—I do not mean in the Parliamentary sense but in the theological sense. Christians for centuries have been accustomed to putting their own mistakes to the devil.[5] . .”

At any rate, this obvious Luciferic reference along with other considerable evidence of Salvador de Madariaga’s anti-clericalism and esotericism will be the subject of another blogspot as well as my forthcoming book. The $64 question is: how much of his approval to H. G. Wells’ disturbing agenda was inculcated in his personally-mentored grandson, Javier Solana, who is now running the military and foreign policy aspects of the European Union.

Of his prescription for the world and its supposed “cure,” Wells wrote:

Whenever possible, the Open Conspiracy will advance by illumination and persuasion. But it has to advance and even from the outset where it is not allowed to illuminate and persuade it must fight.

And also

“Non-resistance, the restriction of activities to moral suasion, is no part of the programme of the Open Conspiracy. In the face of unscrupulous opposition creative ideas must become aggressive, must define their enemies and attach them. By its own organisations or through the police and military strength of governments amenable to its ideas, the movement is bound to find itself fighting for open roads open frontiers, freedom of speech and the realities of peace in regions of oppression. The Open Conspiracy rests upon a disrespect for nationality and there is no reason why it should tolerate noxious or obstructive governments because they hold their own in this or that patch of human territory."

Hmm -- Wells’ statements sound an awful lot like what has been coming out of both Washington and the European Union. Wells himself was no doubt along with his other proclivities genuinely wanting to see an end to war – but he proclaimed with equal vigor that it was ok to wage war to put his “New Order” in place. While decrying his crudeness, Solana’s grandfather thought Wells’ ideas viable and his directness more effective than more flowery, peaceful sounding versions of “the plan.”

The $64 question is “how much of this rubbed off on Javier Solana.” I suspect it was a lot. I also more than suspect that I am defined as one of the “enemies of the open conspiracy.” C’est la vie! As Herb Peters puts, “stay tuned” and have a happy Easter!

[1]The metropolitan Detroit area featured three well stocked New Age bookstores when I started my research in 1982. They were the Mayflower; Middle Earth Books; and the Michigan Metaphysical Society’s store. The Mayflower carried numerous pieces of anti-Semitic literature such as “The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” and Lady Jane Queensborough’s “Occult Theocrasy.” They, like the H. G. Wells’ THE OPEN CONSPIRACY were strangely labeled “Christian Book Club Edition” .
[2]See Salvador de Madariaga. Morning Without Noon Memoirs: United Kingdom: Saxon House, 1974 (copyrighted by Salvador de Madariaga, 1973).
[3] Ibid., page 134.
[4] Op. cit., page 135.

[5] See H. G. Wells, S. de Madariaga, J. Middleton Murry, C.E.M. Joad on THE NEW WORLD ORDER, NPC Fourpence. A pamphlet which I was fortunately able to obtain through and an English dealer, Left on the Shelf” of Highgate, Kendal, UK. This particular reference is from page 23.
Is there anywhere on the web where I can read H. G. Wells book on "Open Conspiracy"?

I just did a google search and found this. I own a paperback edition from "Christian Book Club" but I found this on web from a "Rae West" and I seem to recall she may be a relative or descendant of Wells:
You have some really interesting material on your blog, I apologise that I could'nt read iit in more depth but the television is blasting in the back ground.
Today, April 16, Meet the Press had a show that presented leaders of different religious groups. In many places Meet the Press is replayed at night. Rabbi Michael Lerner and Sister Joan Chittister are both promoters of New Age religious thinking. The boy preacher from Houston is "religion lite." Father Neuhaus is a philosopher, but here his main message is become a Catholic. If you can, check out the show later tonight.

``Faith in America'' discussion involves Sister Joan Chittister, Rabbi Michael Lerner, Newsweek Editor Jon Meacham, professor Seyyed Hossein Nasr, the Rev. Richard John Neuhaus and Pastor Joel Osteen.

Presented by Pew, which is probably why there are two clear New Age represenatives on the show.

It's also repeated on the radio. Go here to check out time and place.
Find ‘Meet the Press’ in your area - Meet the Press, online at ...
For much of the United States, “Meet the Press” airs on television at 9 am ET on Sunday. But to find the time in your area, on TV or radio, check the list ... - 65k - Cached - Similar pages
I've never tried this, but you can also pick up the show after 1 hour on the internet.
Is this the same H. G. Wells as War of the Worlds?
Is this the same H. G. Wells as War of the Worlds?
Yes, he wrote War of the World as well as A Short History of the World. A customer review of the book said "Reviewer: Jack L. Kessler (Paris, France) - See all my reviews
H.G. Wells is a fine writer and 'The Outline of History' is generally enjoyable to read. However after a while one gets tired of his emphasis on race and the centrality of Aryans in history and his anti-semitism. Wells is an example of that mixture of socialism and racism that appeared at the beginning of the Twentieth Century. Other examples are Jack London and the young Adolph Hitler."

Wells also attacked the Catholic Church in his book, Crux Ansata, an indictment of the Catholic Church.
I do love New Age lists. They give so much information. Here is an online petition with the intriguing 2012 in the petition line. The date of the petition is 1998, but lookee lookee, both Hubbard and Muller signed the petition so it must have been important.
I found this while looking around for the clash/alliance of civilizations. It is very interesting. I pray for President Bush that the Lord guide him to make good decisions.

"A Clash of Civilizations - The real crisis isn't about nuclear weapons, but Iran's determination to reshape the Middle East in its own image."

Interesting picture -- Does it say "Worldwide Security Conference"? What is the East-West Institute which shows in the back ground?
One of the things that H. G. Wells wrote about religion, its "transformation" and use in THE OPEN CONSPIRACY was:

"Meetings for mutual reassurance, confession and prayer, self-dedication, sacraments and seasons of fast and meditation NEED TO BE MODERNISED OR REPLACED BY MODERN EQUIVALENTS if the religious vitality of the Open Conspiracy is to be sustained."

This same line of thinking was picked up by Jeremy Rifkin, a popular New Age theoretician who was shockingly for a time lionized by the Evangelical community starting with Pat Robertson, Wheaton College, Bob Larson, and even Spiritual Counterfeits Project. Rifkin wrote in his THE EMERGING ORDER that only the religious impulse would be strong enough to put the new agenda over the top and that it would be accomplished through a new Protestant reformation in the name and spirit of orthodoxy. The paradigm would be changed from "fall and dominion" to stewardship. Rifkin is an ALICE BAILEY, BLAVATSKY, DAVID SPANGLER New Ager and should have been seen right through -- his thinking of using a new form of religion to accomplish New Age change obviously predates him as H. G. Wells wrote much the same. You can have religion as long as it can be manipulated by New Age planners. Otherwise, VERBOTEN - FORBIDDEN!
If you have the Christian Book Club of American orange edition of this book, you will find that quote in the last comment on page 117. Sorry for omitting it!
Does Marilyn Ferguson in "Aquarius Now" make an assessment of how they've advanced with the modernization of religion?
Marilyn Ferguson is considerably more restrained on these issues than she was in 1980 when she published THE AQUARIAN CONSPIRACY. The New Agers were operating under the delusion back in those days that they could freely publicly disseminate their plans as "nobody but an initiate could understand them anyway. I will publicly post the exact wording and cite to this when I have a few minutes to look it up, but am posting this during one of the few breaks I have had in hectic last few days.

Marilyn Ferguson's newest book is considerably more discreet, apart from its rather blatant cover and title than the all-telling "THE AQUARIAN CONSPIRACY" and even more telling lecture tapes of talks she gave about the country back in the "good old days" before they suspected they had opposition. As she wrote in the Aquarian Conspiracy, they would cease discussing when the suspected opposition as their ideas had 'been too easily misunderstood in the past.' The Aquarian Conspiracy itself is the best source to understand this mindset, apart from my book, THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW
Sorry for OT Constance, however have you noticed the friction currently going on regarding Solana's Anit-Terror Czar, Gijs de Vries?

See the following link:

Somewhat interesting considering the joint press conference those two gave.

see transcript:

Curious that JS is out of the country and receives no flak regarding information that his office may have obtained via torture.
This information on U.S. born Dutch citizen DeVries is interesting. Physically in appearance, he somewhat resembles Heinrich Himmler, a key Hitler aide. I'm not comparing him to Himmler, but the physical resemblance is, however, striking!
The reason I am so interested in H. G. Wells was that he was totally focused on both religious destruction and population reduction. The early New Age writers I researched starting in 1981 relied heavily on him, including but not limited to Marilyn Ferguson herself in THE AQUARIAN CONSPIRACY. Even more disturbing was Kazantzakis!
I am presuming you mean the man who wrote The Last Temptation of Christ.
"Kazantzakis, his translator Peter Bien admits, did not believe in any traditional God; nor did he believe in a spiritual afterlife. Kazantzakis, Bien observes, felt that this world would "somehow, through its own dematerialization, produce its own materialistic renewal in another cycle"; in his sotry of the Messiah, Bien argues, Kazantzakis attempted to assist our inevitable evolutionary transformation. Kazantzakis, like the Catholic philosopher Teilhard de Chardin, envisions a God-who-is-to-be, born of humanity's ascent to the divine, and in his prologue to The Last Temptation of Christ identifies his Messiah's struggles with the mystic destiny of civilization:...."

Very definitely New Age thinking. I couldn't find any solid information which showed where his ideas came organizationally from or where he might have been connected politically.

OK Constance, you've teased us with a new piece of information, and you probably want us to do some work on our own, but I, for one, need another clue.
When I was in High School, George Orwell’s “1984” was a reading requirement. When I first read it, I found it difficult to envision such a horror. Knowing what I know now, I find it to be so much more pertinent today than back then. Thoughts of Orwell’s portrayal are sometimes triggered as I watch new age implementation. For example, in context of the cartoon crisis, when the Alliance of Civilizations’ “Wise Men Group” stated that freedom of thought should not be used to criticize the prophet, my first thought was “freedom of thought? Hmm, the Ministry of Love is sure to follow.”

I’ve found a web site dedicated to the works of George Orwell. It is created/maintained by a woman named Jackie Jura, who describes herself as an independent researcher. Her web site greets you with a pyramid embedded with the open eye of Horus. Written underneath the pyramid is: “Comparing the world George Orwell described in "1984" with the world we are living in today.”\

Relating this to Constance’s subject blog post, there are places on this web site where Jara indicates that Orwell’s “1984” was in response to Wells’ “Open Conspiracy”. Apparently, following the publication of 1984, Well’s was furious enough to write Orwell using some choice language.

Jara further writes in her “Conspiracy Theories” link “In its essence 1984 is an exposure of just such a diabolical plan. Much of what Orwell describes in the nightmare world of 1984 is recognizable as having been taken from the pages of the conspiracy writings that were available during his lifetime. Among the hundreds of articles and essays Orwell wrote throughout his journalistic career he mentions the books, theories and authors that influenced him. These, and his own education and life experiences, contributed to the creation of his masterpiece, 1984. His knowledge of these writings helps explain how Orwell came up with such accurate descriptions of the horrific world Winston inhabits in Oceania, and it re-inforces my belief that 1984 is a cryptic message from Orwell exposing the world organization's conspirators.”

I have not read everything on this site nor am I familiar with Jackie Jura, so please don’t assume I’m endorsing its entire contents. I am posting it because this site makes for some very interesting reading. Hope you enjoy.

Rich I came upon this site a long time ago and when I first saw it I found it very interesting. A bit of exploring of the site leads to many Jew hating messages. It's how disinformation works...75% truth and 25% propaganda. The reader trusts when he sees what he thinks is the truth and then believes the rest.
The question is how does a person who is not knowledgeable separate the truth from the lies.

This is not a criticism. I was recently taken in, and not for the first time in all of these years. This after 26 plus years of research.
To Anon 3:49 PM
Thanks for the heads up. As I said, I haven't read every link, but many that I have read looked good. That's why I stated at the bottom of my post that I'm not endorsing all of the writings there. Can you point out some of the anti-semetic links?

Also Anon,
It's that bait and switch tactic that I've encountered at other sites. The things I've read appear to be from a secular viewpoint, but sometimes I find secular information good. However, I'm going to comb through the entire site tonight and look for anti-semetic content. If I find it, I'll post and give my apologies to everyone.

Rich, don't post the antisemitic links, just indicate whether by your standards there is antisemitic material there. You might also want to do a google search on the name and see what else the author has written.
I rather imagine Kazantzakis' ideas came from the same poissoned well commonly referenced by scripture as "Mystery Babylon". It reportedly corrupted all nations. He calls, simmilar to the horror scenes in Rwanda, for the "conspirators to unite" upon a common signal to "save the earth" -- it is yet one more occult cum Satanic (or vice versa) call for the New Agers to unite and wipe us out. In Rwanda when talk was heard of the tall trees, the people were to know it was time for the Hutus to wipe the Tutsis out. Check out Barbara Marx Hubbard's works -- they carry the same eerie theme as do the David Spangler and Alice Bailey books. They plan a great planet -- for all blonde haired, blue eyed, "Aryan" pagans, that is. There were self-hating Jews caught up in their ultimate anti-Semitic schemes. One was Arthur Koestler. He ended up in suicide. Again, read Lee Penn's book, FALSE DAWN!
Very interesting reading Constance.

You make reference to Javier Solana maybe being influenced by his grandfather regarding the New World Order, and I have been wondering why the former President Bush made reference to the New World Order in one of his speeches, and whether any of this might have influenced the now President Bush.

Does anybody know whether he/they have since mentioned this?

I hope not, as I am allowing for the reason that former President Bush mentioned it, as that he was swept along by 'it sounded a good idea at the time' but has since seen the light.

I like the Bush family and find it hard to believe that they would do anything which would ultimately harm people or take away their freedoms.

I would like to see somebody ask President Bush openly and hear him refute it, as I do believe him to be a sincere Christian.
Anon. 7:20
I think one of the most successful things the New Age Movement has done is condition society, presidents included, in spreading their buzzwords and ideas without most people even knowing where they come from. Words like "interdependence" are used in every day language. Twenty years ago this wasn't as prevalent as it is now. I believe New Agers are so into psychology and brain sciences so they can learn how best to condition the public. Advertisers do the same thing.

On a side note. I have to share an experience my wife and I had. This may or may not have anything to do with the New Age Movement. I was looking at a want ad on career builder and checked out some marketing company. Three weeks later I get a call and some guy wanted to come over and talk about a home business. He comes over, does a presentation, and I find out this company is called Quixtar. There was a web site to it and I discovered that it is really Amway. I had no idea they changed their name and the guy never mentioned at the time this connection. Well, live and learn. Obviously, we turned him down.
RE President Bush – I tend to offend some Christians as I criticize actions of President Bush. They tend to make the assumption that I’m taking a liberal position. This is not true, I’m attempting to use the Bible as my frame of reference. Whenever I see activity that moves us steps closer toward the New World Order, I point it out--whether it be republican or democrat. For example, President Clinton sold our nuclear secrets to China while President Bush released to them Cray computer technology—a system that provided China with the techology to launch missiles upon us. So which of the two made the better choice?

The Bible tells us we can examine fruits. One such fruit by this administration (and congress) which ought to concern all Christians is the Real ID Act, slipped through a military spending bill. This legislation requires that by 2008, we all have an ID in order to drive a car, have a bank account, etc. Sound familiar?

Read of it here:

This administration supports the Alliance of Civilizations and intends to provide funding. Why would the United States fund an Alliance that openly states it intends to curb our freedom of speech? How would this affect Christians? A Christians would not be able to say anything that could be construed as a criticism toward any other religion.
These are just a few such examples. I don’t think that the presidency would be a pleasant job and I do encourage everyone to pray for our leadership as the scripture instructs. Hopefully, I didn’t offend anyone and I’ll step back and watch your comments.
If anyone posts to me this week and I don’t respond for awhile, its because I’m planting new trees and doing maintenance in my apple orchard.

Anybody besides me notice that Bush was busy celebrating the BIG New Age earth worshipping holiday of EARTH DAY yesterday? Does that answer Dave in Battle Creek's question?
I just looked in and saw that anonymous was referencing another anonymous question about President Bush. Norman Cousins gave dinner parties for ambassadors at the UN and New Age leader, Donald Keys, told him which ambassadors to invite. Bush was one of the invited ambassadors to those dinner parties. He mentioned in a 1991 speech, as I recall, that when he was at the UN, he worked with a group of men who sought the coming of a New Age where the nations of the world would cooperate rather than compete and he wanted to make their dream a reality and have the USA lead the world into the New Age. Bush and Gorbachev co-hosted a 1991 conference on peace in the mideast which was coordinated by Javier Solana!

I personally tend to believe he knows what he is doing! Right now if I were to buy a used car from members of the Bush family, I would restrict my transactions to Barbara and Jeb!
Very interesting comments re President Bush.

I cannot help wondering though, if President Bush knows about the agenda of the New World Order, and exactly what that implies, what would be in it for him personally, given that because of the Islamic terrorist forces unleashed against the US, his own life, and that of his family appear to be in personal danger?

I am tending to think that because of the slow, and in some cases, negative response, to his lead on this 'war on terror', that he must have felt rather let down by Europe and no longer trusts them.

Also, given that Javier Solana is leader of the ten nation Western European Union, where does the US fit into all that?

Why would a President who is already leader of the most powerful nation on earth, be so willing to give his country over into some world federation, where there is no guarantee that he will end up leading it, given that the US is not the flavour of the month with most other countries?

I am still willing to give President Bush the benefit of the doubt, although he appears to be dealing with Javier Solana more and more, but Javier has put himself on the world stage now, and leaders of most countries would have no choice. Yet where are the President's spiritual advisers like Billy Graham and his son in all this. Surely they would be on the lookout for whoever may be on the horizon who could be the one to fulfill the role of the AntiChrist spoken of in Revelation, and reading the signs of the times, and giving him warning.
One of the things I have found frustrating over the years is the media’s attempt to portray us as the world’s sole superpower. I’ve never agreed with this. I think we’ve been lulled so sleep with a sense of false security. China recently published an analysis on the EU’s Galileo System and the military benefits thereof. I’ve broken the links apart so you may need to rejoin them if you visit the web site.

Some highlights – Galileo:
- Challenges US technological superiority.
- Disrupts GPS service if the U.S. attempts to jam the Galileo signals, thus rendering GPS ineffective against European weapons systems.
- Places China in a position of military superiority over the U.S. as it has partnered to fund the Galileo system.
- Secures the ability to conduct urban warfare with up to 95% accuracy.

China must feel as though they're in a position of strength because they've threatened to hit the west coast with missiles--Los Angeles in exchange for Taiwan.

Also, Russia has maintained its nuclear arsenal and recently announced that it has developed missiles that change trajectory which Putin has touted as a challenge to any nation’s missile defense systems.

One can find even further concern when considering our national debt load (in addition the nation’s personal debt load).

What happens when countries who own our debt say time to pay up? We essentially become enslaved. Our current administration and congress don’t seem to be overly interested in reversing this trend.

I’m afraid that we are no longer in a position of strength and the American people will soon come to that realization. This is very sad and I pray that the Lord continue to restrain.

The False Prophet of Revelation was obviously a man of military might who embraced technology. I have to deeply wonder at the true stance of one who claims
1. God told him to invade Afghanistan.
2. God told him to invade Iraq.
3. Now God is telling him to build a two state Israel-Palestinian solution?

Could somebody claiming all this be possibly a FALSE PROPHET or AGENT OF ONE?

In the words of Church Lady on Saturday Night Live, COULD IT BE, COULD IT BE??????????????
From Good Morning America interview with President Bush:

Gibson: "Do Christians and nonchristians and Muslims go to heaven in your mind?"

Bush: "Yes, they do. We have different routes of getting there...”

As regards Afghanistan, I regard President Bush as someone who has been used of God to get rid of one of the most evil regimes in history. The stoning to death of women and other barbaric practices was a daily occurrence while the Taliban were in power, and after reading an article written by a european midwife who had seen what was going on there, I used to pray daily for that country to be helped, and along came President Bush chasing the terrorists. I have never stopped thanking God for that answer to my prayer, which, to be honest, I was finding it hard really to believe would ever happen.

Also, the same in Iraq, the rape and torture rooms and the mincing machine were real, and for so long nobody was willing or cared enough to intervene, and along comes President Bush chasing wmd's and terrorists. Quite honestly I don't care that he didn't find (so far) the wmd's, the barbaric things that were happening in that country should have had the world intervening long before that.

These are just two countries where despicable things were happening, and we were turning a blind eye. N Korea is another dreadful place with mass starvation of little children who are just left to wander around until they die.

Unfortunately, N Korea already has nuclear weapons so not so easy to invade there and give relief to the people.

What worries me more about President Bush now that somebody has mentioned it, is his idea that Christians, non Christians and Muslims go to heaven all together and that there are many ways to heaven.

If this is the case, then his friends, the Graham family, ought to have a good talk with him. In fact, I think I might just write to them with this concern.

Besides that, we ought always to pray for the President, he did have a Christian service for his inauguration, and I noticed that there were people standing around scowling because it was the name of Jesus that was being mentioned and not just any old anonymous God.

I hope that he will address the matter of his faith more, and also that he will refute the idea of the New World Order.

I was reading an article by a minor politician from UK who was saying that when he visited the White House, the people of the present administration did a lot of praying and discussing the Bible (which I think he thought was uncool), so I was very hopeful by hearing that. Much different from what has been reported about the previous administration.
Here is the full interview with President Bush. He didn't state his belief that we all follow different paths to God once, but twice.

Anon, I agree with you that a lot of good has resulted in the liberation of the Iraqi and Afghani people. In Iraq, they are now hearing the gospel. However, I am not convinced that the initial motivation of the government was intended to be noble. I think this would have occurred whichever party was in power. I become ever more suspicious as I look at how embedded the Europeans are in the region. They appear to be calling the shots and we may just be the ones implementing their agenda.

When I consider the domestic damage that has taken place on this administration's clock and what it means for Christians, it smells of bad fruit.

Again, I'm not attempting to make any political statement as I can point to as much damage done by the previous administration(s). I am attempting to be fair and impartial and use God's word as my measure. Hopefully you take no offense as obviously you love the Lord.

How can people say we are not the last generation. More specifically, how can christians honestly say this! My guess is they are not studying and being consumed by the spirit of mammon.
The book generated much religious discussion and now, with the DaVinci Code movie coming out, they will continue to be more. I just came across a rather long essay on the topic coming from a writer at Ignatius Press who was responding to a critic. You will have to put the link together or use this tiny url.

Father Pacwa pops up as a collaborator on the DVD, so I don't think we will get the complete story, but the essay is quite good in showing the Gnostic connection to the New Age movement. Modernized Gnostic themes are being used to move people into new "religious" beliefs. Sophia, who commented on the previous thread is an example of a believer in the new Gnosticism.

Do not take inordinate pride in your inability to be led astray. Be ever watchful of what is going on around you. Temptation sneaks up like a thief in the night.
Rich in Medford

I think the US has been on a wrong path since decision makers like those elected to the Supreme Court and other courts have turned out to be people with few moral ethics and have endorsed abortion and same sex marriage.

President Bush has recently been trying to address this by attempting to get people who he believes will be anti abortion to replace them.

However, it is not politically correct to say this, so instead it is said that the President is choosing people who are the best for the job. He does try, but comes up against people with their own left wing athiestic agenda, and appears to have a hard battle trying to get moral people into these positions of power. We should be praying very much that more and more Christian people will emerge to fulfull these leadership positions.

I believe President Clinton, and his wife, with their liberal attitudes did much damage, and a few years ago remember reading a book written by somebody who worked for that administration who was saying that Mrs Clinton had put strange figurines around the White House and nobody knew what they were, until a man who had been high into Witchcraft, and eventually became a Christian, pointed out that they were something to do with Witchcraft, (he did mention the name of them, but can't remember), and he believed that Mrs Clinton was very high into that kind of stuff. If you ever get to read about the Christmas tree in the White House that was trimmed by Mrs Clinton that first year her husband was in Office, you may be shocked as to just what was going on there.

Power and money can be very corrupting influences.

We need to pray very much for our leaders, and that God will raise Godly men into positions of power and to protect them from these influences.

"Hell To Pay" by the late Barbara Olson and "The Case Against Hillary" by Peggy Noonan both cover many of the Clinton White House and, in particular, Hillary's wrong doings. I think we're being hit as hard now as we were then--only it is a bit more deceptive where the Clintons were more visible. (Follow the money and legislation--there have been very tough pills to swallow) I still have reserved judgment on the Supreme Court justices. I suspect that John Roberts is similar to O'Connor, but the jury is still out. I agree that we need to pray for our leaders regardless of whether we agree with them or not.

Strategically, the new age has stated its intent to deceive Christians so they can bring us into their fold. Jesus said that even the elect could be deceived if it were possible. I do strongly believe that George Bush understands what is going on and advocates the NWO.

Rich in Medford

I think you may be right about President Bush understanding what the NWO is about, yet I have a feeling that if things carry on the way they are going it wont matter for the US, as the country may not even be on the scene in the sense of having any power to do anything about it.

Unfortunately, the main terrorist threat appears to be against the US, and unless the US can be kept safe in the face of the nuclear threats that could come against it, then the world would be left open for the European Union to take over as the main world power. The main protector of Israel would also be gone.

The terrorists no longer have to fly over the US and drop bombs, they could have come into the US legally and already be inside the US with these weapons all set to go.

I think somebody like Javier Solana would love to get the US off the scene in the political sense, because that would make his agenda much easier to implement.

I think you're right and unfortunately the heavy cost is our freedom. My gut feeling is that there is going to a world war that makes all previous wars appear to be child's play. The Bailey writings say that the NWO wouldn’t be realized until the world has been badly traumatized by a devastating war. I rather suspect that the U.S. and China are playing pawns for the Europeans. I think we are to subdue the middle east and China will have a role in subduing the United States. Once we economically collapse, China will also find itself under EU control (and by all indications, China views the U.S. as being in decline and the EU as their emerging rival).

Interestingly, you mention terrorist nukes within the U.S. I often suspect that nukes could be the judgment of end time Babylon--considering it burns from coast to coast within an hour’s time. I also think that the prophecy of Habakkuk pertains to the U.S. The Chaldeans/Babylonians (depending on translation) have a military that flies, has a heavy debt load to other nations, has the finest of food, extensive power, etc. If you have an American Standard translation, try reading Habakkuk there and replace the Chaldeans with the words United States--the similarities are amazing.

These are just some of the scenarios which I see as possibilities. I could be wrong as I’ve watched some interesting twists and turns that have surprised me. Whichever way it plays out, we can take comfort knowing that the Lord is in complete control.

Or, we could see another scenario taking place. Orwell knew of the socialist plans for the future and wrote about them in the book 1984.

San Francisco Chronicle
Learning to love Big Brother
George W. Bush channels George Orwell
Daniel Kurtzman
Sunday, July 28, 2002
In "1984," the state remained perpetually at war against a vague and ever- changing enemy. The war took place largely in the abstract, but it served as a convenient vehicle to fuel hatred, nurture fear and justify the regime's autocratic practices."

In the book 1984 there were three superpowers, the US, China and Europe. There were always two ganged up against one in everychanging combinations.

When the year 1984 came around, there was much discussion about the book and how things weren't as dire as they were in the book. What wasn't discussed was that 85% of the population was covered in 1-1/2 pages. They were content. If a troublemaker came among them to stir them up, he was removed. The populace was allowed their church rituals, the lottery, sports, and the pubs. Winston kept saying that if only the population knew what was going on, things would change. Get a copy of the book at your library.

Now there has been a lot of talk about Bush and where he stands. Do you really think there was a difference between any of the presidents we have had in the last 50 years? Bush is a nice enough Christian fellow whose surface anyone could like. He has a charming and gracious wife. Looking back over the last 30 years, can you name one president who was put into office because of his intellectual ability? Of the four who ran last time, who had brains and political ability? Who knew the international scene? Ask yourself why have we been getting these candidates for office.

Don't look for scapegoats such as Bush or the Jews. Mental destruction is already upon the US. If physical destruction is to come, it will come because the country has been weakened mentally by not just porn, abortion, euthanasia. It has been weakened by everything the New Age teaches. Do you know what New Age teaches? Do you know what it is composed of? Do you know who leads it? Do you care? When Constance says in the future you will be allowed to believe but you will not be allowed to act on those beliefs, do you know what that means?

Do you really think you are the first people to be saying "End times are near. Don't need to do anything but believe." I've been hearing that same song for 26 years and others have heard it before me. And things continue to get worse.
I'm not picking on just the people who post here. I'm pointing this out to every lurker who reads and wonders, "Well how close is this latest sign putting us near to end times. When end times come I'll be in good stead with the Lord and things will be over" and until then
"Oh I'm so busy" is the common excuse. Thanks Constance for all of your work." My response has been, the world will be destroyed someday because somebody needed to wax their floor more than they needed to let someone else know what was going on and the straw will have broken the camel's back.
Anon. 11:05. VERY TRUE!
Rich in Medford

When I was making reference to weapons that could already be in the US, I am not meaning that the whole of the US would have to be destroyed, I think from what we saw after the destruction caused to New Orleans, it would only need for a few cities to be attacked and there would be absolute chaos, which could take years for the US to recover from, if ever.

I don't think you should write China off as an enemy either. I have been amazed at the Christian activity going on there, with the churches packed with Bible believing Christians, and the Gospel is spreading like wildfire. Apparently, there are more Christians in China than any other country in the world.

Before the Bamboo Curtain came down there were many dedicated missionaries who lived and worked amongst the Chinese. One of them that I knew out in Singapore was called David Adeney, just about the most Godly man I have ever met, and I was reading in a book called I think 'Four of China's Mighty Men' where he was quoted as saying that the greatest influence that any Christian had ever had on him was a Chinese man (one of the four). David had gone to China as a young missionary to tell the Chinese about Jesus, and here was somebody (Chinese) teaching him about how to live the real Christian life. One of his main themes was sanctification. These missionaries of old would be thrilled to know that the Chinese revolution and all the persecution that the Chinese Christians suffered has not diminished the work done there, in fact, the seeds of those martyrs has produced much fruit, and is continuing to produce it. Praise the Lord, His word has not returned to him void.

China may turn out to be the twist in the tale to this saga of the Anti Christ and his longing to be in absolute control.

Don't forget, the Chinese have lived under a dictatorship since forever, and they most likely can recognise one for what it really is, better than we in the West, even one who comes with the charm of Javier Solana. I don't think they are going to be the push over he may think.
Here's how the prophetic fulfillment could possibly play out:

1. Antichrist is handed full Europe power with USA pressure on those national heads to do so;

2. Antichrist turns his EU machine against USA; uses NATO/combined EU weaponry against her.

3. This makes China VERY ANGRY as USA is best customer for its merchandise -- "now who's going to buy our merchandise?" wail they viewing USA troubles from afar off

3. 2010 - AC turns on Israel and breaks Neighbourhood Treaty and brings military action against Israel

4. Armageddon comes -- China takes its army of 200 million across Euphrates to Megiddo battle site to punish EU and its leader for destroying its economic market.

5. Both turn to face common enemy coming from sky in form of 2nd coming -- but are defeated "without hand".

What do you think of this as a possibility?
prophetic watcher

I don't think it is necessary for the EU to come against the US, because they only need to sit back and see how this 'war on terror' pans out.

The US is being threatened by fundamentalist Muslims, and Bin Laden is upping the threats.

Javier Solana has got to be seen as some kind of saviour, a peace maker, he is most likely watching all this and it could not be working out better for him.

Get rid of the influence of the US, who is the main protector of Israel, and that will put him in a strong position of stepping into that role, perhaps after a confrontation between Israel, and the US, against Iran. Don't hold your breath if you think that europe are going to get too involved in that one.

After Javier 'saves the day' so to speak for Israel and brings peace, they will make him their saviour , and he is then able to be the main influence on them, setting up his religion, dictatorship, etc. Thereafter, they eventually see him for what he is, and after 'a falling away' from following him, that is when he unleashes his fury against Israel.

Maybe you could fill in other bits, this is just an idea of what could happen.

What about the setting up of a base of some kind in Babylon for the Anti Christ as well, so maybe he also sorts out Iraq.
Like a rubberband! More fun to play chess with all of the pieces rather than look around and see our country's failings.
What about the possibility that the USA IS "Babylon?" Babylon was always symbolic for the predominating civil government power, i.e. Babylon, then Rome as Babylon ("the saints of Babylon salute you"). It now appears clearly to me that the EU countries are thinking of handing power to Solana to equalize themselves with the USA and Solana is VERY GOOD at playing both sides against the middle.
Prophetic Watcher, that is a very interesting scenario. I am going to need to consider it further as I contemplate scripture. Thanks for the food for thought. I’ll get back to you on this one.

To Anon:

Please no-one misunderstand me, I see a distinction between the Chinese people and the communist government. I regularly pray for the Chinese people—it has to be one of the toughest places to exist as a Christian. This, I’m sure, is especially true now that China has a very aggressive new age evangelist effort taking place. The First World Buddhist Conference recently convened after formulating a very aggressive evangelistic effort. China touts Protestant Bishop Ding Guangxun as an example of their acceptance of Christianity. Guangxun’s promotes a new age socialist viewpoint and any Christian who doesn’t conform to this mindset faces severe persecution. I found it very disturbing as I recently read of China’s organ harvestation of its prisoners. Constance’s subtitle on her book couldn’t have hit the target any better—it is barbarism to the core.

I hope you’re right regarding conflict with China, but I see Taiwan as being a very contentious area right now. In Barbara Olson’s “Hell To Pay” she documented where China threatened Clinton with war--over Taiwan. In July 2005, once again, a Chinese general threatened the use of nuclear weapons on our west coast if we didn’t stay out of their business with Taiwan. I think the EU has been fueling that fire a bit by lifting the embargo of the sale of their weapons systems to the Chinese.

I agree with you 100 percent not to expect the EU to lift a finger in the Mideast hornet’s nest in the Iranian conflict. Anything they do would be a token gesture. I suspect they wouldn’t want to weaken themselves or spend any of their valuable resources (or our NATO resources) since they’ve already prepared to take center stage. Once on stage, we know by scripture that every empire must submit in one way or another—willingly or not.

Herb Peters’ web site has a very interesting article on the NATO-EU superpower status. Also, the cover of Time International for April 24 has Bush and Hu on the cover with the title “The Real Clash of Civilizations.” Last week, a Drudge headline speaking of China stated something to the effect, U.S., meet the new superpower.

Lord come quickly.


I agree with you that America is the end time Babylon. The U.S. fits the description with amazing clarity. As I see it, there is not enough time for another empire to arise and fulfill that role. But then again, I’m surprised that we’re still here.

Sherry Shriner has nicely compiled the scripture pertaining to end-time Babylon at this site:

If you are going to equate the US with Babylon, what is the US doing more so than is happening in europe?

We, in europe, also have abortion, same sex 'marriage' unions, atheism to a much greater extent than in US, pornography on public display, etc etc.

Europe has also got a past for severe persecution of the Jewish people, unlike the US, where they have been protected. I even include the UK with that, as they the Jews were persecuted in the past. In the middle ages they were even driven inside a church in the north of England and burned alive. It was only with the coming of Oliver Cromwell that some protection was given them.

Therefore, I am not understanding where you are coming from with the US being Babylon, and not the western european nations also?

Why do you think that of yourselves specifically?
Richard, you should check the home page of the sites you refer us to. There are many good sites out there that don't also push some very strange agendas. Protocols of the Elders of Zion on the main site really pushes some buttons.
May I also add that in europe, there has been severe persecution of Christians.

Not far from where I live is where lots of Christians were burned for their faith, and other terrible things happened to them in the Tower Of London.

Because it is now several hundred years ago since these things happened, it has been easy to forget, but these people were fellow Christians who suffered and died for their faith. This was mainly under Catholic rule I may add.

Queen Elizabeth the First did execute Catholics, but only if they were involved in treason against her. Otherwise she was not concerned with a person's conscience and what they believed.
I will watch more carefully what I post, and only post news links. I'm going to go back and read Sherry Shriner's site very carefully. Constance, do you know if Sherry Shriner anti-semitic? I've heard you interview with her and thought that she presented herself as a Christian.

My deepest and most sincere apologies to everyone. I should have looked at Sherry Shriner’s home site. Constance, I listened to your interview with Sherry and she sounded as though she broadcast a Christian radio show. Without looking at her home site, I posted. Again, from here on I’ll only post news articles.

Anon 8:19 PM

Although everything you say is true, by all indications, it looks as though the EU will fulfill a different role—the role of the final revived Roman Empire. It is an empire that will subdue all the nations of the earth and the end time Babylon will cooperate with it. The 10 nations the comprise the Western European Union appear to fulfill these prophecies.

Revelation17:12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.

Daniel 7:24 The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones,And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute[a] the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

Rich you don't answer to me or anyone else except Constance as it is her blog. I was just calling a problem to your attention, and you strike me as decent enough to care.
All this mention of Babylon as being the US had me going to Chuck Missler's site to see what his take on it is.

Although he mentions other meanings that refer to Babylon, including possibly the real Babylon, he also has a take on the US being Babylon with reference to Hosea Ch4. and says that he believes that punishment is long overdue for the US, but it is only her protection of the Jews which has stopped this from happening so far. What hope for us in Europe then?

I think my reference to the Godly man of God David Adeney and his take on Sanctification just about sums up what is required of the Church. We must turn back to God and ask for cleansing and forgiveness. This was the message that David spoke of as having been learnt from the Chinese man, that asking for forgiveness is not just a one off thing, but EVERY DAY we should be asking for this cleansing and renewal. Sanctified and ready for the IMMINENT return of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Praise the Lord.

Am I the only one who thinks that too many sermons preached lately appear to be about the getting of more prosperity?

Thank you for this site Constance. Very interesting reading.
Amen to that Anon 10:32

On Irving Baxter's program, Politics and Religion, on Monday, his guest was Joseph Farah, editor of WorldNetDaily. The discussion was the huge numbers of protestors against immigration reform. Apparently, the financial backers of these protests included the Ford foundation and the Rockefeller foundation. Now I wonder why these global goverance groups would fund protests against illegal immigration? Could it be deliberate de-stabilization of this sovereign nation? As Joseph Farah says, "Follow the money!" You can hear the interview on
May be the way for them to show we are a xenophobic nation.
Go back to the basics of the New Age movement - one world government, one world religion. One world government, if you look at the version in 1984 or what is going on now, will come about through the unification of regions. How much easier to blend the governments of Mexico and the US if there are many no longer illegal Mexicans in the US.

Now the goal of people with money is to make more money. How much easier is it to make money through controlling government contracts if one doesn't have to deal with a lot of little governments and can deal with one regional government.

Look at what is happening as one big sales pitch to the American public.
One world religion = look at what we have in common. Illegal people sitting among you = look at how much they love you and love being in America, don't be mean and turn them away. Abortion = there is no freedom more important than freedom of sex. Euthanasia = don't you want your fellow man to be free of pain?

As the Lucis Trust people say -- evil is that which causes separation between people. You don't want to go along with the New Age agenda? You are so evil you are being told.
To Prophetic Watcher,

What would be your scenario that would place China in a subjective role to the EU?

Prophetically, it was the same beast who was handed power by the 10 kings who dislodged "Babylon" and then went on himself to be defeated "without hand" in the battle of Armageddon by Christ returning with his armies and interrupting the battle between the "beast" and the "200 million man army"
From Constance @ 7:34 pm:

"What about the possibility that the USA IS "Babylon?""

The more I have studied the scriptures, US history, US policy, US culture, and current events, the more convinced I become that this is the case. I do not relish the thought; but the conclusion is "unescapeable".

The above website goes into very intelligent and reasoned study of the question. It contains an abundance of information and references.

For Constance, and those familiar with the Bible and with Constance's research and writing on the New Age movement, we should be able to percieve the significance of 'symbols', as pertaining to spiritual things. I would therefore draw attention to that most salient of representations of America, (USA), the Statue of Liberty. I have read excellent expositions of the true symbolism and character of 'Liberty'. I warn you, this goes counter to what most of us have always thought and held dear about our 'noble' country. [And there is the thing. How easy it is to human nature to be sure we are the noble ones] The Statue of Liberty was conceived of by certain Frenchmen, who were sentimental of the French Revolution, and thus admired the exemplar of revolution and freedom, the USA. The primary proponent of the statue project was a Freemason, and he saw in America the embodiment of the principles of Freemasonry, and was so motivated to honor and encourage these prinicple with an approriately symbolic gift. He therefore recruited a likeminded and prominent sculptor to create an statue (image) to represent and confirm to the minds of all people the nature of this 'great city' (or nation-state). The subject they chose for the image, as found in their own writing and correspondences on the matter, was the pagan goddess of the Romans, known as Libertas, the goddess of individual freedom.

Here, let us pause to consider the possible differernces between the Romans pagan concept of 'individual freedom' and the concept Jesus had in mind when he taught that "you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free." And while we do this, lets think upon which of these two different concepts are what is celebrated in the discourse of present day America.

Libertas was the matron goddess / guardian of freed slaves, or freemen. (think back to the mention in acts of the Jewish synogue of 'freemen', and consider how this may relate to the name of the Freemasons.) Anyway, the story is that in ancient pagan societies it was common for some female slaves attaining freedom to turn to prostitution for their livelihood. Libertas then, as the matron guardian of personal freedom was also known as the 'Mother of Harlots'.

As is well known, the gods and goddesses of the the Roman pantheon were largely rehashes of the gods/goddesses of the cultures and civilizations preceding them. And it is claimed that Libertas was derived from the previous preemminent great goddess of Babylon, Isis. It is claimed that it was in the very early times of Babylon, or Babel, that worshippers of Isis communed with her through her temple proxies, or temple prostitutes, known also as Isis' daughters. Thus Isis too was the Mother of Harlots.

Thus, the idol-statue that has come to be accepted and admired as the almost mystical symbol of Americanism is an image of the great goddess of Babylon, the Mother of Harlots.

But the crucial consideration here is who do we look to as the source of true freedom? Who is our God. Isis? Or the Word of Truth.
To Chronomega:

Your post is BRILLIANT and I thank you!

Constance E. Cumbey
To Chronomega,

You have me fully convinced! Most excellent research.


That is most interesting and illuminating.

Many thanks.
Thank-you each above. However, I need to make a correction. I confused the name of the goddess of ancient Babylon with that of ancient Egypt (Isis). The name of Babylon's goddess was actually Ishtar, where the name of the 'Ishtar Gate' of ancient Babylon comes from. Nevertheless, the dieties and their mythologies of the ancient cultures are all very similar.
Also, I apologize if I unintentionally conveyed this was my research. I was relating in condensed form what I read in a essay several months ago.

Here it is:
I have seen a lot of commentaries about the U.S. being the end times Babylon, or Babylon the Great or Mystery Babylon. I personnaly think it is the revived roman empire or more specifically one city of it. I also understand the statue of liberty stuff as being what is represented to the rest of the world. I don't believe there is a nation on earth that does not have an idolatrist aspect to it. One thing I have noticed is the steady decline of the U.S. dollar and trade influence in other countries. We are declining fast but it is not in the one hour time frame like the fate of Babylon the Great is. That's not to say that we won't have an hour of judgement. Other countries are standing in line waiting to arrange trade agreements with Europe, with the Euro dollar. The Euro is also taking off in the middle eastern nations as well. Even the oil producers want in on it. Iran wants to exchange the U.S. dollar for the Euro causing a crash in our currency by the domino effect. Revelation 18:9-11 "The kings of the earth who commited fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, 10, standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying 'Alas alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgement has come.'11 "And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore: Notice the very last phrase no one buys their murchandise anymore after mystery babylon is destroyed. In other words, there is no one else to sell to. Its the finale collaps of the final economy. I don't see the U.S.'s falling as being the end to world wide trade. The revived roman empire still has to take off. We still have not witnessed the one world economy yet wich I do believe the Euro will fulfill. Solana is deffinately in the lead when it comes to organising world wide trade. Not the U.S. Our days are past and our future days of prosperity are numbered. Granted, we are deffinately over do for judgement for the things that this country has done and participated in, but I don't believe that the judgement of the U.S. will fullfil the judgement of Babylon. I guess time will tell.
child of god

Yes, that is making sense, very interesting reading.


Are your books still in print? How can I purchase them? I am very interested in your readings as this site has challenged me to be aware of world events; world events do not seem coincidental in many cases.

Thank you to all who post here. I am getting quite the education. It is good to be aware.
Child of God,

Another aspect to consider when thinking of one city being destroyed is that the early Americans called the United States the "City on the Hill." President Reagan referenced this is his speeches and the history is well documented.

Whichever the case, things are getting very interesting.

I loved Reagan's speaches. A real American! I do see the multiple comparrisons from his speaches, as well as other historical comparissons. However at this point in time, this is still the leading nation for spreading the gospel world wide. Even with all the trash that is going on in this country, we provide funding to missions, missionaries, Internet Bible teachings, Providing TV and radio brodcasts funding and equipment for the broadcasting of these stations oversees. The Christians in the U.S. are still responsible for the most of it. But as I said its at this point in time. I think there would have to be some critical changes involved for the U.S. to become Babylon. Now I'm not saying that this is impossible. For starters changing the presidency. Nimrod hated God. Back at the tower of Babel he tried to physically reach for God to become worshipped as God. Now I sure don't approve of this president's form of unkowledged Christianity or the way new age thinking has influenced his agendas. But I believe Bush is far from being Nimrod. Nimrod hated the thought of God and organised the population against God intentionally. Throughout the centuries weve had many reminders of these kinds of people who are outright atheist but are also blatently admitted against God, and actively participate against Him. When I look at the mystery Babylon to come, I see it as still being a purpose driven society that actively, openly and intentionally goes against God again. Now come 2008 election, this country could change overnight. But not without a serious battle. When you look at both rep. and dems. that have thought about entering the race for the presidency, that acctually have a chance at winning, it looks very critical. But we are 2 years away, and I believe that miracles still happen! Now if you read, it seems to me that Nimrod had some sort of forknowledge of the judgement that would come for doing an outright attempt against God. Because he basically said we better hurry before God confuses our language. Isn't that funny, that is exactly what God did! So when I look at Babylon to come, I think they will have full knowledge of what is going to happen for judgements but keep on in their openly God hating plans. I do not believe that Christians could participate in this kind of stuff. I think the anti-God agenda that comes from mystery Babylon will be as plain as the nose on your face. I don't believe it will be hidden agendas. Maybe soon we will start to hear "as it was in the days of Nimrod".
Anon 6:21

I agree with much of what you say that the U.S. is a place where Christians reside and has been a vehicle from which the gospel has been preached. I'm thankful to the Lord that He made this my homeland. But I still believe that we fit the description of the end time Babylon. In Habakkuk, we are told that the just shall live by Babylon's faith.

4Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

At some point, the United States as we know it is going to sour. I have seen that occurring rapidly over my lifetime. At some point, the Lord is going to allow it to fully become the mystery empire that it seeks to become.

Hey nice blog. Although it�s not what I was looking for. I am looking for info on Payday Loans or a Cash Advance so I can buy some Hoodia Diet Pills.. I found your blog very interesting
Hey nice blog. Although it�s not what I was looking for. I am looking for info on Payday Loans or a Cash Advance so I can buy some Phentramine diet pills.. I found your blog very interesting
Hey very interesting site. I am looking for Spy Software since kids use my pc. If you know of any worth trying just let me know. Thanks
Whats up!! Anybody know where I can find any good Posters
Very interesting blog. Are you looking Hoodia Diet Pills? I tried the Hoodia Weightloss pills. Here are some to try Pure Hoodia Diet Pills, Hoodia diet pills with Phentramine
Post a Comment

Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home

This page is powered by Blogger. Isn't yours?

Subscribe to Posts [Atom]