Monday, April 03, 2006

Battle for the Catholic Church

The Battle for the Roman Catholic Church Future – New Age vs. anti-New Age? What is author Robert Blair Kaiser really saying?

I made the costly mistake of dropping by Border’s on my way home tonight. I saw husband Barry’s car parked there. Hubby graciously offered to buy me a cup of coffee. I accepted that after noticing four new irresistible titles on the new non-fiction table. One of them is the subject of this blog. That is Robert Blair Kaiser’s new book, A Church in Search of Itself: Benedict XVI and the Battle for the Future.” For many of the same reasons for which I found myself comforted by openly anti-New Age Cardinal Ratzinger’s elevation, Kaiser finds the same distasteful. It appears that Robert Blair Kaiser and Lee Penn, author of False Dawn, are at opposite theological poles. Obviously so are Robert Blair Kaiser and yours truly.

It might even be that Robert Blair Kaiser’s book is a type of “The Aquarian Conspiracy” manifesto for integrating more “New Age” change into the church. The people he praises are for the most part open syncretists, those openly promoting apostasy and denial of orthodox tenets. Those he denigrates bluntly are guilty of nothing but keeping the faith.

Robert Blair Kaiser seeks “a Church in Search of Itself.” Lee Penn ably articulates (using the verb “pens” would seem a little punnish!) the need instead of a church in search of God. Kaiser wants a church whose theology swings daily in the opposite direction. The author’s syncretistic biases shine throughout the book. His chapter, Cardinal Francis Arinze on “Developing Local Theologies” probably shows the author’s biases more than the reportedly more conservative Cardinal Arinze (and probably Lee Penn might have more knowledge about this).

Kaiser refers to an address Arinze gave at a year 2000 “Millennium World Peace summit of Religious and Spiritual Leaders” at the UN in New York.[1] Kaiser says Arinze there called upon world leaders not to misuse religion by promoting violence. I have no quarrel with that premise. Kaiser was even happier that “since that meeting, “Arinze had presided over at least three major interreligious gatherings in turn, raising his media profile.” He then writes:

Four months after 9/11, he helped organize a huge gathering of leaders – Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and Catholics -- in Assisi, where a similar meeting had been held a decade before. Curiously, the delegates prayed separately, because Cardinal Ratzinger had decided not to encourage joint prayer by men and women who believed in different Gods [sic]. Arinze didn’t fight Ratzinger on that. Neither did the pope.”

Well, score one hooray for Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI)! Kaiser also wrote about those he considered the brave, good guys – those who were for “developing local theologies[2] Furthermore, Kaiser probably misread Arinze’s whose agenda was never syncretism, but evangelism. Arinze has personally, even earlier than the last pope himself, spoken out strongly against spiritualism and New Religions, including but not limited to New Age religion.

My admitted light reading of the volume last night makes it appear to me as though Los Angeles' Cardinal Mahoney is a Kaiser favorite. He rapturously describes his do-it-yourself skills with such detail as to make Mahoney look like a natural replacement for the host and star of "This Old House". However, in this case it looks like home construction and church destruction may well go hand in hand in southern California Catholic land. Faithful Christians in Cardinal Mahoney’s diocese succinctly described his actions:

"The Cardinal is bringing in speakers who openly trample on official Catholic teachings," Fisher observed. "He's subjecting Catholics to talks by advocates of abortion, sodomy, homosexual 'marriage,' fornication, ordaining priestesses and homosexuals, occult "New Age' practices, 'dismantling' the Church, defying the Vatican's authority, redefining God, and more. He should stop thumbing his nose at Pope John Paul II and leave office."[3]

While Kaiser was scathingly indignant about Ratzinger/Benedict XVI’s orthodox theology, he was curiously enraptured by those who would deny our Lord, including but not limited to prominent New World Religion proponent Leonard Swidler. Now Swidler is a name well known to me. One of his closest confidants is Jordan’s Prince Hassan, who currently serves as President of the Club of Rome. I’ve kept internet archived files on Swidler for the past few years. I even tried to get him on my radio program once. Luckily for Swidler, he was out of the country and unavailable for that booking. I had planned to use him as Exhibit A to demonstrate the intensity and determination of New Age theologians.

Just what is my issue/problem with “A Church in Search of Itself”? The answer is contained in the very title. A true church is one in search of God, not itself. Kaiser boasts that Belgian and former Pax Christi head, Cardinal Godfried Danneels (one who also at times claimed to speak out against the New Age Movement) proudly said that his theology ‘changed daily.’ [4]

Kaiser, an unapologetic proponent of syncretistic change, gives an interesting list of those who were on the short list for the papal replacement. Kaiser says Ratzinger made none of those 2004 lists:

Papal Candidate Location Liberal Change or “no Change”
Cardinal Francis Arinze[5], Nigeria No Change
Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Buenos Aires, Argentina Change
Cardinal Godfried Danneels, Mechelen-Brussel, Belgium Change
Cardinal Ivan Dias[6], Bombay, India No Change.
Cardinal Cláudio Hummes, São Paulo, Brazil Change
Cardinal Walter Kasper, Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity in Rome Change
Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera[7], Mexico City No Change
Cardinal Oscar Andrés Rodríguez Maradiaga[8]. Tegucigapa, Honduras Change
Cardinal Christoph Schönborn[9], Vienna No change
Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi, Milan No change

It is more than interesting to note that just about everybody labeled “No change” spoke out boldly and strongly against the New Age Movement. Those on the list indicated for “change” were considerably more tolerant, if not openly sympathetic to it.

With all the current talk and songs of “New Church”, and writers out there like Robert Blair Kaiser, not to mention the Matthew Foxes, Basil Penningtons, and Thomas Keatings lurking in the background, it appears that Catholic New Agers have not gone away. They merely went underground, but they are resurfacing. Last week I had an anguished call from a local client who was staying with a convent in Rome. Her daughter had called her from
Michigan, USA to say that here local Catholic hospitals are now adopting the very New Age Reikki practices along with the unfortunately usual “healing touch” and other such “transformative technologies.”

My Catholic friends, fasten your spiritual seatbelts and pray for the Pope. As the political agenda of the New Age advances via the European Union, “the men who stare at goats" in the USA military a la Jon Ronson’s analysis, the attempt to again forcibly impose it on Catholics as once happened in the 1980s appears to be once again on the militant march.

The battle is not over. In fact, it may be just beginning. Jesus once said to his apostles, “it is inevitable but that evil comes, but woe to him through whom it comes.”

A word to the spiritually wise should be sufficient!

[1] Kaiser, Robert Blair. A CHURCH IN SEARCH OF ITSELF: Benedict XVI and the Battle for the Future. New York: Knof Books, 2006. Page 131.
[2] Kaiser, op. cit., page 131.
[3] Quoted from http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-16878.html>
4/2/2006, 10:21 PM

[4] Kaiser claims that Cardinal Danneels, once head of Pax Christi, and even the author of an anti-New Age tract, said that his theology changed daily. Whether that is good or bad, one would suppose, would be the direction in which the theology changes – closer to or further away from Jesus Christ whom he is pledged to serve – closer or further from God the father. I am dismayed to learn that Danneels was so overwrought by the election of the conservative Ratzinger to the papacy. Danneels' purported anti-New Age advocacy, shown to me a few years ago by another anti-New Age author, Donna Steichen, had once given me hope. Disturbingly, Danneels and nine other cardinals would not stay for the impromptu supper served up by the new Pope Benedict XVI. It has a ring of someone else who at times convincingly professed orthodoxy, but would not stay for dinner – Judas Iscariot on the night of our Lord’s Last Supper.
[5] Cardinal Arinze issued a strong statement against “New Religious Movements” including the New Age Movement in 1991, two years even before Pope John Paul II issued the first such statement known to me. See http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/ARINNEWM.TXT.
[6] Ivan Cardinal Dias has spoken out against syncretism and the New Age Movement. See, e.g., http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/ARINNEWM.TXT.
[7] Cardinal Carrera’s election would not have disappointed me either. He issued a superb condemnation of the New Age Movement, even as some Evangelical cult-watchers were downplaying the threat of the Movement to true Christianity. See http://www.ewtn.com/library/bishops/acall.htm. Among the topics covered by Cardinal Carrera in that pastoral letter to his Mexico City Catholics were:
New Age and the False Hope, The Rapid Spread of New Age. New Age Beliefs, Environmentalism, Gnosticism, Pseudo-Science, Incompatibility of New Age and the Gospel . Reincarnation, and Non-Christian Meditation, Responsibility of Catholics in Face of Confusion

[8] This Maradiaga is the one that Rastafarian “Squeakbox” the author of the sycophantic biography of Javier Solana referenced in my last blogspot was so terribly disappointed was not elected pope. He posted that to 2005 comment sections on my then blogspots. This is also the one that well meaning readers frequently and wrongfully confuse with Solana’s grandfather Salvador de Madariaga. Maradiaga looks similar, but the spellings are distinctly different on closer inspection.
[9] Cardinal Schonburn strongly spoke out against the New Age Movement. Reviewer James Likoudis writes: "Cardinal Schonborn insists on the historical reliability and credibility of the Gospels. He sharply criticizes the New Age movement and emphasizes that "[t}he dogma of original sin is of inestimable importance for the whole structure of the faith" (p.67). He echoes the Rule of St. Benedict, which asserts that "[n]othing should take precedence over the work of God,' that is, solemn worship" " (p.67). He is reviewing Schonborn’s book, Loving the Church, By Christoph Cardinal Schonborn, Ignatius Press, 1998
Comments:
You are surely keeping your information up-to-date regarding New Age. This is an extremely informative post. Thank you.

I, too, have Lee Penn's book. No one should hesitate to spend the money they are asking for it. It is extremely informative, detailed and easy to read. Unlike many books that are just extended essays for $45, you will use this book as a reference book for a long time.

I've been waiting to get a report from the Vatican's June 2004 conference on the New Age movement, but I've seen nothing. The earlier position paper was quite good, but with representatives from 25 countries, I was hoping to see more details.
http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=214&z=7

Here are two more current sources for information. The first shows how the Catholic Church is dealing in Poland with the infiltration of New Age. The second is a general response.
http://www.cesnur.org/2005/pa_hall.htm
http://catholicinsight.com/online/theology/article_653.shtml

This information is meant to help all Christians and Jews spot what is happening in the world around us and to help us keep clean our own backyards.
 
Sounds like shades of THE WINDSWEPT HOUSE by Malachi Martin. Wonder what he'd have to say about this, if he was still living?
 
Thanks for the posting. It's an excellent thumbnail sketch of the flat earth mindset.
 
Dear Sophia,

Not to mention commentators with a New Age mindset!

Constance
 
I for one am a fan of the fact that Pope Ratzinger put out a book (Truth and Tolerance") which basically defends absolute truth and its exclusive nature. It may sound strange to some for me to be mentioning this because the real-ness of absolutes can be summed up in, "Duuuh! It's not rocket science." But when you have books like the Da Vinci Code being quoted like some Bible as the all-in-all end-all for truth for the ages is ridiculous. And YET, there a folks who after reading stand firmly on an agnostic platform stating flatly that they know that we cannot know if anything is true or not. I'm not even going to GET into how contradictory this is.

Pope Benedict XVI addresses mainly cognitive relativism in so many words. Cognitive relativism being the affirmation that all truth is relative. This would mean that no system of truth is more valid than another one and that there is no objective standard of truth. It would, naturally, deny that there is a God of absolute truth.

Thank God that Benedict XVI is standing for truth and the exclusivity of the Christian faith. However, I depart from him when he starts defending the exclusivity of Roman Catholic Church--I'm a protestant. (Obviously, I don't think the tradition and the "magisterium" of the RCC is on equal par with the Bible in terms of canonical authority).

At any rate, the syncretists that are creeping up the ranks of the Catholic church are no doubt, the enemy of the church they call themselves serving.

For those that who don't know what syncretists try to do, they basically state that all religions are true so long as you buy into their notion of "truth". What they truly mean is they believe all religions are true so long as they don't try to claim exclusive truth. Therefore, no one worldview (or system of truth/religion) is superior to another.

But, syncretism is a relativistic ideology or worldview that truly is crushed under its own wait.

For if all worldviews ARE true and equally valid, then to buy into the the notion of syncretism would be a contradiction in itself. For to believe that all worldviews are true is to make the syncretist worldview superior to all others.

This is like saying, "There is no absolute truth!" False! For if there is no absolute truth, there is at least remains one constant, and that is the statement that was made to eliminate truth, but in turn obliterates itself in the process.

The obviousness--at least to me--of the error in slaughtering exclusive doctrines at the alter of political correctness is an atrocity against mankind waiting to happen. While Islamic terrorism is a detriment to all, it is only a logical outworking of the fundamental teachings of Islam. Hence, why terrorists are also called Islamic fundamentalists. But I don't believe that relativism is the answer to exclusivistic doctrines. Jesus is.

So, the New Age Movement is the posterchild for trying to blend religions together and undermine their fundamental differences.

It was Jesus who said I came to bring the sword not peace. He came to divide the world up into two groups via free will. In the future there will be two groups--believers in Christ and unbelievers when the lines between the two will be as visible as a mark on your hand or head.

Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except throuh me." (John 14:6) Jesus's statement is the truth and excludes everything that is contrary to Him.

But....

"Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitanbts of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image fo the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666."

Revelation 13:14-18
 
Pardon, I made a glaring faux pax.

I said, "But, syncretism is a relativistic ideology or worldview that truly is crushed under its own wait."

I meant, "...crushed under its own W-E-I-G-H-T" Weight. LOL

Just being funny.
 
I have just been reading about the Satanist Albert Pike and the plans for the New World Order which have been followed since he first formulated them in the 19th century.
So far they have been right on course with their diabolical plans, and they are right on course at the moment pitting Christians and Jews against Muslims, in order to bring about their Master's diabolical rule.

For reference see:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1086
 
Justwatchingwithinterest,

I read somewhere that Benedict XVI said that if he were stranded on a desert island, the two books he would want with him were the Bible and St. Augustine. I confess to liking the man!
 
Anybody ever hear of anybody from any denomination who didn't think their own was THE TRUTH. How can we blame Benedict XVI for thinking likewise -- at least he insists on cleaning his own house up and keeping it that way rather than defend error!
 
May God Bless anybody who refuses to deflect from the Christian message and not water it down or change it to conform to the World's ideas.

At the moment the followers of Satan are rejoicing because they believe they are right on course with their evil plans, but they lost the battle at Calvary, as did their master.

According to the New World Order followers, their plan for a third world war involving Muslims against Christians and Jews may look like it is working, but these times, which will get worse, are telling Christians that Our Lord is at the very door and His promises are true.

We must watch and pray constantly and not be caught sleeping. I pray that good strong leaders will be raised up for the Catholic church who will not be afraid to speak boldly and openly and not deflect from the Christian message.

I also pray that the leaders of the Evangelical churches will begin to use prophecy in order to understand world events, and so, warn the Church of events to come in the near future.
 
To Sophia Sadek, teacher of metaphysics, gnostic, member of the Sophia community:
You do like to use generalizations. Here you say at a Catholic website: "Douglas, your characterization of female ordination as a corruption leads us to assume certain things about you’re definition of purity. Perhaps it is the purity of a flat and immobile Earth. Perhaps it is the purity of a whited sepulcre. Or, the purity of darkness, ignorance, and deception."

Or here:

Finally, conservatives may view their Christology as being better, but that's a vain assertion. Truth trumps deception. Conservative Christianity is still stuck in the flat Earth paradigm. The deceptions of that school were demonstrated centuries ago.
Sophia Sadek | 03.26.06 - 5:46 pm |

Come now Sopha, someone who claims to be an expert in Gnosticism should be able to do better than stick their tongue out and then say "flat earth."
 
Why would you push an article from that old wheeze, the truth seeker? One glance at the home page and anyone can see it's New Age, antisemitic, material meant for those looking for the latest gossip which the site provides by the shovelful. Find the information you believe at a more credible source before you present it.
 
Anonymous 6.08

I am not trying to push any New Age stuff onto you.

This information has been around for a long time regarding how the One World Order people came into being.

I would urge you to read it in order to get a perspective about what the Masons are really about, that is the 33 degree ones, and the important people in history who have been associated with them, and how they have manipulated history by pulling the strings behind the scenes in order to get their master Satan into absolute power.

It is making me wonder whether you are not a New Ager yourself by trying to encourage people not to read it.
 
There can be innocent Masons. Probably few if any innocent Rosicrucians and/or Theosophists.
 
To Anonymous 7:51 pm
Provisions must be made for dissidents...Beatrice Webb
Extremely important words.

New Age is an extremely complex movement. Remember those puzzles where you had to get from the beginning to the end with a pencil without ending up in all kinds of dead ends? What better way to stop people from searching for significant information on this movement than setting up many paths that lead to dead ends? There's money to be made by doing that in addition.

One dead end path is to "blame the Jews." Another is "blame the Vatican." Another is that it's all aliens. Another was "ignore Cumbey" because she's too extreme. Another is "LaRouche has the secrets."

Who is the source of that website? Why are they promoting New Dawn magazine? (Did you look at the contents of New Dawn?) If you said let's start with Foster Bailey for information on the New Age to Masonry, it would have been more credible. If you had said check out Manley Halls' book, you would have provided some insight. Instead you point to a website that is filled with piles of disinformation and ask readers to go poking around in it.
 
Ananymous, you have such a wonderful name. And you come from such a large and fruitful family.

A man on the street asked me what defines Antichrist. My answer reflects the biases of our tradition. I told him that the Antichrist is characterized by opposition to the will of Christ.

For example, Christ clearly demonstrated a will to initiate women. In an apocryphal Gospel, there is a story of a certain apostle who opposed the will of Christ with respect to initiating women. That apostle demonstrated his love for Christ, but not his willingness to execute the will of Christ.

The apostolic Fathers and their disciples were in error about the relationship between Heaven and Earth. They were in error with respect to the initiation of women. And now, they are in error about same-sex marriage.
 
Hey, Sadak sounds exactly like a lady I successfully debated to a packed house in Seattle on January 22, 1987. There was national coverage on the debate and it is even written up (albeit minimized) in John Naisbitt's MEGATRENDS 2000. Wasn't even going to buy that book until I saw my name in the index. That New Ager's name was Elizabeth Burrows and she called herself "a Christian mystic." Even the Seattle New Age press conceded I had won the debate and tried to blame that on my singleminded "fundamentalist mind set". Then we heard from some later defectors from her camp that the sweet loving lady had a public book burning of my two books, THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW and A PLANNED DECEPTION later that night. My thinking is that if the "New Age Power" they all think they've plugged into (Elizabeth Burrows also made this claim) is that great, one lousy Christian shouldn't get in its way -- or maybe WE'VE got the greater power and Lucifer isn't such a great friend after all?
 
Hey, Sadak sounds exactly like a lady I successfully debated to a packed house in Seattle on January 22, 1987. There was national coverage on the debate and it is even written up (albeit minimized) in John Naisbitt's MEGATRENDS 2000. Wasn't even going to buy that book until I saw my name in the index. That New Ager's name was Elizabeth Burrows and she called herself "a Christian mystic." Even the Seattle New Age press conceded I had won the debate and tried to blame that on my singleminded "fundamentalist mind set". Then we heard from some later defectors from her camp that the sweet loving lady had a public book burning of my two books, THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW and A PLANNED DECEPTION later that night. My thinking is that if the "New Age Power" they all think they've plugged into (Elizabeth Burrows also made this claim) is that great, one lousy Christian shouldn't get in its way -- or maybe WE'VE got the greater power and Lucifer isn't such a great friend after all?
 
I have been a Christian for years and had never heard before of The New World Order and such like.

I posted the article beacause it is straight forward information about Albert Pike and the movement he was involved with!

I could have quoted from another source that would have given the same information, and if you like I will.

I don't expect to be attacked because I have taken the info from the source I did. I just typed in Albert Pike and that info came up along with others, so don't shoot the messenger.

As regards the Masons, the article does point out that it was only ever the 33 degree ones that were involved with all that stuff and the rest have no clue about what is going on.

I noticed the other day when somebody else posted on here that the person was attacked right off, and I thought then that as a Christian his views should be as valid as anybody else's, and he was not saying anything that was anti Christian, in fact, he was making a valid comment. I have not seen him posting on here since.

The Christian church whether we like it or not is a broad church and people may have different opinions regarding different subjects, but as long as they believe the central message of the Gospel and that the Bible is the word of God then why attack them because of not being in total absolute agreement.

To imply that I am some kind of New Age person leaves me utterly hurt by these insinuations and I would not have expected to find such thoughtless attacks on a Christian website. I would like to remind you that you are able to draw more people with kindness than with rebuke, especially when it is not warranted.
 
I suppose what I am trying to say is that if you have not heard about Albert Pike then check this man out, because his movement is still out there, and his agenda is the one behind the One World Order and he made no bones about his master being Satan himself.

And please, no more verbal stoning regarding this.

With love in Christ to you all.
 
And let me add a loud AMEN to that, anonymous. Well said.
 
Dear Anon 1:16 PM
I completely understand where you are coming from. The other day I found an article I thought was excellent and intended to post it here for informational purposes. The article did not list a publisher so I refrained from posting because the writing style had a reminiscently familiar ring with which I was uncomfortable. I later learned who published the article and was glad that I followed my instincts. I could have inadvertently directed people down a deceptive path. One thing I’ve found when it comes to learning about the new age on the web, there are a lot of “bait and switch” sites out here. What appears to be reasonable at first glance can leave you horrified as you dig a little deeper. Please don’t be offended if someone posts a correction as you are obviously a person who seeks truth. Remember that everyone has different writing styles and we may sometimes interject a tone as we read a post that the author did not intend. A follow up post usually helps clear things up. Sometimes there are very firey exchanges and there is no mistaking those (see Jon Phelphs Wednesday, April 27, 2005 posts). Use the dialogue here as a learning experience. I for one welcome you here.
RichInMedford
 
Someone came here posting an article from a magazine whose home page was full of antisemitic articles and a promo for New Dawn magazine, a very New Age publication. http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/

When I pointed this out, it was suggested that I was a New Ager trying to keep information away from everyone. Pretending innocence is a very common disinformation tactic. If the anonymous who posted the article was so innocent, he would have said thank you for calling the additional information to his attention.

I have followed the links and there is no documentation that Pike said what the articles claim he said. The only thing that lead did was to introduce questionable material as fact to others.
 
Rich, it was Constance who taught me not to tolerate anything connected with antisemitism. She was right. If it was a mistake in any other area, I could be more tolerant. I suggest you take a trip around the magazine to check out the style.
 
Dear Anon 2:31 PM
I agree with you 100 percent for posting the correction as it was necessary. I'm not so sure our other Anon's intent was to mislead as they said this is new to them. I suspect that a blending of truth and otherwise can be difficult to discern when taking a first look at this material. I see nothing wrong with your correction, I just wanted to let our other Anon know that they should not receive it as hostility. I nearly made the same mistake the other day. Had I done so, I hope that you or someone else would catch it and I would gracefully stand corrected.
Rich
 
Hmmm,
Jesus Christ and initiation? Sounds like a new age christ to me.
 
SOMEBODY HAS LOTS OF NERVE -- A NEW AGE ADVERTISEMENT POSTED BY GOOGLE ON YOUR SITE!
 
Well, maybe they aren't so psychic after all. If they were, they wouldn't waste resources communicating with this site! Hey, maybe we'll get a few conversions out of the deal.
 
In case everybody missed the subject of the conversation and the site disappears, this is the internet location that the ad took all too:

http://prism.azedia.com/

To call it "New Age" is a rather studied understatement.
 
New Agers who want honest input and responses from us are welcome here; however, skip the "Flat Earth" insults. I don't want to frighten anybody away from what I term "The Hidden Dangers of the [New Age] Rainbow." Jesus loves you too -- its just that it simply is not fair that he paid the price for us on the cross and Lucifer who caused all the initial trouble, gets the credit! I'd be jealous, too!
 
To Sophia who would have us believe that God promotes a flat earth concept. The trigonomic sine function can be used to graph the earth’s orbit. When we read in Psalm 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us, we see where our God tells us of infinity. When viewing the sine function on the geometric plane, the function is circular and becomes repetitive with a domains having both negative and positive infinity. So much for flat earth.
 
Constance, many apologies for any "insult" you may have felt. It takes all kinds to make a world. You are included in our school, whether you want to be or not. We would never burn any book.

There was a time when the Church forbade reading of the antenicene anti-heretics because those who read them tended to become heretics themselves. Reading your books can inspire others to greater understanding, whether you intend it or not.

On to the subject of those nefarious 33rd degree Masons and their "Novus Ordo Seclorum" (New World Order):

A Bruno scholar, who shall remain nameless, credits Bruno with founding the Rosicrucians. The Freemasons include the Rosicrucian school in their organization.

When Bruno taught a spherical, rotating Earth, an Oxford scholar commented something to the effect that he says the Earth rotates, but it's really his head spinning round and round.

Bruno was burned at the stake by the Church (many of who's members no blame the secular authorities). That was in 1600.

This is why us "New Agers" associate Catholicism with the flat and immobile Earth. We say, "Yes, it's true, the Catholic god created the Earth. But, it was a flat and immobile Earth that he created."

I'm not a Mason, but I do advocate global governance. The Vatican has always advocated global governance, as well. There was a time when the bishop of Rome owned the entire western hemisphere. Both Spain and France were conscripted to enforce that secular state.

The difference between our concept of global governance and that of the Vatican's concept is the difference between freedom and slavery. There is a role for slavery in a free society: it is an example of what to avoid.

As for Lucifer, don't forget that Chirst was characterized as being an agent of evil by the equivalent of the Vatican of Jerusalem. From the perspective of the slave, the free individual seems to be an agent of vice.
 
I know of nobody who would have a vested interest indefending Lucifer's "good name" apart from Lucifer himself. Sympathy for Lucifer is one of the most disturbing aspects of the New Age Movement along with its anti-clericalism and anti-Semitism!
 
Sophia, your comments seem like those of David Icke when he writes "the truth shall set you free." But that makes sense as we all know Icke is a New Ager down to his charming little toes.

Maybe one reason to not like the Rosecrucians is that they have on their main reading list a book by Savitri Devi, who in a biography was described as Hitler's Priestess.

According to Wikipedia, "Although the actual charge against Bruno was docetism, (adherence to the doctrine that Jesus did not actually have a physical body and that his physical presence was an illusion), and despite the fact that his theoretical work cannot be considered scientific, some authors have claimed Bruno as a "martyr of science". So much for the idea that he was burned at the stake because he said the earth wasn't flat.

Although the Church fathers burned a heretic (they had to answer to God for that), they didn't burn books, they put they on a list which said people shouldn't read them. It was the Nazi occultists who burned books. Those of us who research the New Age movement probably have larger libraries on the topic than 98% of the New Age community. The commandment is that we should not bear false witness.

Sophia, just how large is your library of Christian and Jewish writings?
 
Sophia, you wrote: I told him that the Antichrist is characterized by opposition to the will of Christ.

If you are still around, could you give a description of who or what "Christ" is in your belief system?

I could quote New Age sources, but you might then say that isn't your belief.
 
And for the record, where I came from, Fort Wayne, Indiana, Lucifer was commonly known as "the devil,", i.e. Satan, i.e., Prince of Darkness, etc., ad nauseum. I know the New Agers "metaphysicians" think of him as an "Angel of Light", but then, again, how else was Satan to appear to people? Do you really think he would appear with horns and a tail and a surgeon general's warning, "DANGER, THESE TEACHINGS ARE DANGEROUS TO YOUR SPIRITUAL HEALTH"?
 
Herb Peters has some compelling information on his website about current joint efforts between his PSC and NATO with USA evidently not in that picture!
 
Don't you mean between Solana's / PSC?
 
Sophia,
What happens in your school when Constance refuses initiation?
 
Constance, I did not defend Lucifer. I pointed out that the Vatican of today is the moral equivalent of the Sanhedrin at the time of Christ. Christ was attacked as an agent of evil, heresy, blasphemy, etc.

Anonymous 2:28, the Church did burn books back in the fourth and fifth centuries. Or, at least their more zealous supporters burned them. Also, at that time, people burned their own libraries in order to not be caught with any proscribed literature. Therefore simply proscribing a book puts it in danger of being burned by its owner.

You can call the Nazis occultists all you like, but Hitler was a staunch Catholic. He supported a return to the Catholic estates general. He also wrote something to the effect that "Jews are an embarrassment to our Lord."

The Nazi persecution of Jews is part of an historic Christian attitude of anti-semitism that dates back to the days of Justin Martyr. Even the "saintly" Augustine practiced blood libel against the Jews. The Nazis attacked intellectuals with as much zeal as they attacked Jews.

One of our students observed that history has come full circle. The Pope is a Hitler Youth, and Hitler was a papal youth.

Anonymous 3:54, Christ leads people away from the domain of ignorance and into the light. The Church holds people in ignorance in order to milk them for material gain. The Church is the Antichrist incarnate.

Anonymous 8:27, the only people who we initiate involuntarily are those who stumble into our domain. It's like stepping off of a cliff: the first step is performed by free will, gravity takes care of the rest. In other words, we would never involuntarily initiate Constance without her taking the first step.
 
From the accounts of initiation I've read, stepping off a cliff is a nice analogy for this initiation. It couldn't have worded it better.
RichInMedford
 
Beware people, much of the material regarding initiation I've read is the acceptance of the mark of the beast.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
RichInMedford
 
Here is the test for antichrist:
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
RichInMedford
 
Sophia Sadek
The last time I knew the earth was round and not a flat earth. Christopher Columbus proved that when he sailed the ocean blue in 1492. I would never take any type of first step voluntary iniation from the new age movement. It's because of Constance that us born again believers are knowledgeable about the newage movement because of Constances work. Many of us know all about the new age deceptive, demonic, thinking that you newagers want us to buy into it. Jesus Christ still reigns supreme yesterday, today, tomarrow, and forever.
One day Sophia the Lord will say to Constance well done thou and faithful servant enter into the joy of the Lord.
Keep up the good work Constance

Eagle Eyes watching for his return.
Eagle Eyes
 
Sophia, let me rephrase the question. What does the Sophia community teach about "Christ?" Who, do they teach, is Jesus Christ?

Hitler had a huge following among the academics. See the book Hitler's Professors. I would also suggest the book Modern Fascism which talks of the fascism being promoted in the academic community.
In fact the book burnings were done by members of the academic community.

You are in denial regarding the extent of the Nazi involvement with the occult and Hitler in particular.
Hitler was definitely not sublimating his movement to the control of the Vatican. In fact, he could be called a self-proclaimed New Age Christ who failed. He said he was bringing in a New Age, and the people of Germany looked to him as a Messiah. He was developing a "new race" who were to be co-creators with God because of their perfection. His New Age views were as antisemitic as those of any hard core New Ager. He was destroying the Jews first because they were the smallest group and should have disappeared 2,000 years ago per New Age thinking. According to New Age thinking, the age of Christianity is now over, and true to form, Hitler had plans to either kill off or turn Christians into the servants of his new race. And on and on. This was clear as early as 1935.

Into the light...isn't that code for Venus, the morning star, the light bringer, also know as Lucifer? But you would know more about that than I do I'm sure.
 
Those who are following the story of Prof. Pianka, University of Texas, who said that the population need reduction by 90% and suggested that Ebola could do the job, should catch this latest statement. I posted the original story in the comments section after the last Perspective.

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/04/5PIANKA.html
Pianka hopes this experience does just that. "We could be gods," he said. "We could be such great stewards of the Earth."

One of the last stories talked about his saying that animals need more living space. This so fits in with the Wilding Project, which our government people support. This says that there must be population reduction, that wild animals need contiguous ranging land, and that humans should be pushed into ghetto type areas which can be done if the population is reduced.

This is straight New Age thinking. Ignore this story at your own risk. He is not an isolated fool. He represents many others who are working in this direction but whose views are not coming to public light. Do not let the "conservative" pundits fool you into thinking that everything is OK and he is just goofy.
 
Sophia,

Curious about your stance on various New Age personalities:

1. Helena Petrovna Blavatsky
2. Alice Ann Bailey
3. Benjamin Creme
4. David Spangler

They were/are all proponents of the Lucifer is our 'planetary saviour' theory. Spangler went so far as to write that those who refuse to conform to the New Age mindset would be released from physical embodiment and sent to a dimension other than physican incarnation where they would 'be happier.' I suggested in some of my speeches that he go first and send us a postcard.

Now, knowing this, is it still the case that "we are all one," one of the favorite lines of the New Age Movement? Or is it what happened after I quoted several of these folk: "That's not us, that's them"; "We are all separate"; "We don't take our own books literally either" (said to me by people at a Theosophical Society Board of Directors meeting I was invited to come meet when they learned I was on their grounds in Wheaton, Illinois back in 1983.

Which is it? You may be learning things even you didn't know. If so, you still have time to bail out. Many folks have! Nobody says you have to share Lucifer's fate!
 
SAME SEX MARRIAGE???? -- Sophia, what are you trying to say here -- well, if it continues and a significant percentage of New Agers are into it, and its not the last days, we're sure to outlast them. They will die out just like the Shaker community! Shades of Sodom and Gomorrah, another thing Jesus said in his Matthew warnings!
 
Sophia,

Perhaps you might find THE OCCULT AND THE THIRD REICH by Jean Michel Angebert informative. Hitler was anything but a good Catholic. He was educated at a Catholic school where the headmaster, per the Angebert book, was very much a gnostic of similar beliefs to your own as displayed on this and your other internet presence sites.

Constance
 
Speaking in the first person, Constance has no plans to be initiated, thank you.

It is my growing conviction that dabbling in the spiritual practices so clearly defined and proscribed in Deuteronomy 18 (Bible/Torah) is the disastrous equivalent of repeating Eve's sin of taking the forbidden fruit with all the same faulty promises:

1. Eat this and "you shall not surely die" (reincarnation? vs. Christian belief as set forth by Paul, "it is appointed once to man to die AND THEN THE JUDGMENT"; and
2. Eat this and thou shalt be as gods (yes, indeedy, gods with a small "g", pretenders to God's throne). Oh, I know the old New Age line of quoting Jesus out of context in his remarks to the Pharisees, "you are gods" -- he was obviously quoting the 82nd Psalm which is a sarcastic diatribe against those thinking themselves to be gods. "You are gods, every one of you, and children of the most high, but ye will die like men." As the scriptures say elsewhere (Jeremiah / Isaiah) all the gods, except the true God, the God who created heaven and earth, will perish. I don't need to be a "god." I'm perfectly satisfied to be Constance Cumbey, lump of clay, eligible for our Lord's freely given atonement -- choosing up sides with Lucifer won't get you anywhere desirable in the next life and with what is prophesied for his end time followers in the tribulation period, it appears very much to me that there is no advantage to choosing up that side either here or in the hereafter!
 
To 5:46 PM
I can't get your link to work. Can you repost?
 
You can pick up a link that goes beyond the right hand margin by just moving your mouse past the border and highlighting all of it.

Just in case you still have difficulty, I've broken it into two parts, so you may have to pick up the first line and then the second one, putting them together without a space.

http://www.statesman.com/news/content
/news/stories/local/04/5PIANKA.html

I just checked. The story is still accessible.
 
Sophia
We will never be like Gods were still human. The last I knew as people we still physically die. Haven't you ever noticed that when you go to a funeral home that a person is physically dead streached out in a casket. The only one that rose from the dead is JESUS CHRIST and were not like gods. I'm a poor sinner saved by grace through faith. Just reading your blog that you wrote about a flat earth. I just checked again this moring the earth is still round. Do you remember in American History that John Glenn also orbited it. My mother always had a saying GOD gave you brain use it.
keep up the good work constance.

Eagle Eyes
 
Thanks for the comments and questions. They have been very helpful.

RichInMedford, you're confusing us with a different organization. I believe the name is "Ku Klux Klan." They bear the mark of the beast.

As for your test for Antichrist, it has two flaws. It results in false positives and in false negatives. Since it is merely a test for nomenclature, the agents of Antichrist can easily pass the test by adopting the nomenclature. On the other hand, those who had previously not encountered the Gospel, but who are not agents of Antichrist, would be shunned for their inexperience.

A better test for Antichrist is the "Sheepfold Gate Test." Who leads people down the path of theft, murder, and destruction? Let's see, the orthodox stole the property of the heretics. The orthodox burned the heretics at the stake. The orthodox destroyed the literature of the heretics. The orthodox pass the test for Antichrist with flying colors.

Eagle Eyes, you may want to adjust your optical prescription. I didn't support the notion of a flat and immobile Earth. We associate the Catholic god with the flat and immobile Earth because of the pre-Columbian Church paradigm.

Anon 2:28, as far as our understanding of Christ goes, a casual observer remarked, "You know more about Christ and the Church than our priest." Of course, what we know is heretical. It once earned the teacher a free funeral pyre.

For an inside perspective on the Nazi relationship with the Academy, I suggest reading the works of Martin Heidegger. He has firsthand experience in resisting National Socialism at the collegiate level.

My observations about Hitler's Catholicism don't come from outside observers, they come from a book called "Mein Kampf." To call the founder of the "Third Reich" a New Ager is like calling Timur Beg (Tamerlane) a consumate gentleman.

Watch out for those morning star references, they'll have you travelling eastward.

Constance, I see you are still stuck in the misconstruction of my Lucifer comment. That has happened before. It is an aspect of rocky consciousness.

As for your temptation reference, not to worry, you will surly die whether or not you come to know good and evil.

Anon 10:14, your misunderstanding of the story of Sodom and Gommorah is characteristic of those who dwell in darkness. It is a actually a story of inhospitability. Sort of like attacking the illegal alien for job competition. The citizens of Sodom were not looking to establish a loving, nurturing relationship.
 
Sophia, perhaps you should identify your organization so we can clear up any confusion. If you place yourself in the New Age Movement, I haven't misidentified. Perhaps you should read some of the Barbara Marx Hubbard, Spangler, or Bailey writings, its all right there.
RichInMedford
 
Regarding the test for antichrist, your point regarding nomenclature is well taken as we bear witness of the false negatives. They tend to flush themselves out by their fruits. Regarding false positives, Romans 1:20 makes provision for that. But not to worry, in either case Jesus Christ already knows what’s in our hearts and minds.

Regarding the statement that you never force initiation on anyone, from your perspective, what will the collective whole do with us montheists once you’ve all received your initiations? And what will it be, a decorative 666?
RichInMedford
 
Sophia, it's typical of New Agers that they con the innocent into thinking they are talking about Jesus Christ when they are talking about Christ as an ascended master, someone who has reincarnated many, many times and has become wise enough to come to earth to help humanity make the transition into the New Age. According to the occultists Jesus helped humanity make the transition into the Age of Pisces and Moses helped make the transition into the Age of Aries.

If you read Mein Kampf, you would know that Hitler didn't follow Catholicism as you said. See quotes from the book at http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm
where they want to push Hitler into the Christian camp. In some of his speeches he did use religious terms, but it is not surprising that someone who killed millions of people would lie to those he needed to use for his own goals. If you look at David Redles new book, you will see how often Hitler uses the term New Age.

I'm not sure why you would want to refer to Heidigger who broke with Catholicism and moved on into Hitler's camp. While he may have been controversial, he wasn't controversial enough to be sent to an extermination camp. He didn't go into hiding.

Sophia, you do love cliche thinking.
Gnosticism might be intellectually challenging thinking, but living it is just slogging thru mud.
 
Rich this will give you a lead on where she is going.
http://eighthsermon.blogspot.com/2006/02/community-in-gnosticism.html
 
Rich, Lee Penn is an excellent researcher and author. To see the link between gnosticism and New Age, read here. http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=1298-penn
 
The March 14 issue of the New York Times had an article titled Mysticism, Love, Crystals, Atlantis. Far Out, Man. But Is It Quantum Physics. It was picked up at this site.
http://www.whatthebleep.com/reviews/03-17-06-nytimes.shtml
It reports on what could be called an underground New Age film, "What the Bleep, Down the Rabbit Hole."
"Like its predecessor, this film features a coterie of talking heads, physicists with real Ph.D's, biologists, philosophers and a woman who claims to be channeling a 35,000 spirit warrior from Atlantis."
Read the story at the link. Even what might be called sane people are attracted to this nonsense. The author sees thru a lot of it, but it is worth checking out.

More important, it refers to a May meeting in Bali, the Quest for Global Healing Conference. Now this is a biggie New Age event for people with money to throw around.
http://www.questforglobalhealing.org/
Be sure you look at the list of sponsoring organizations. Go do a web search for more information on this conference.

Sometimes I think we are living in a New Age cocoon. It seems to be everywhere around us and yet most people don't know what it is because they keep waiting to hear boots in the street before they act.
 
Thanks for the links Anon. I'm presently reading Lee Penn right now--you're right, he is excellent. Sophia has been picking and choosing the easy questions and avoiding what will either expose her knowledge or show her ignorance. She has avoided anything difficult. I would specifically like to see her answer to Constance’s questions posted at 10:09 p.m.
RichInMedford
 
Dear Sophia,
You have come into this area and definitely made yourself known. We do not initiate, but do pray. I have you in my prayers and will continue to do so until I am no longer on this earth.
RichInMedford
 
Rich, just to let you know, I go overboard in answering her questions because I think of it as an opportunity to bring information to all of the readers of this blog. To use an old piece of advice, I know nothing I say will change her. If she is going to reconsider, it will have to be because she wants to do it.
 
Sophia, your gnostic crystal ball needs polishing:

>>For an inside perspective on the >>Nazi relationship with the >>Academy, I suggest reading the >>works of Martin Heidegger. He >>has firsthand experience in >>resisting National Socialism at >>the collegiate level.

Ahem, Heidegger's pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic proclivities have been long since exposed. Take a little google tour on him elsewhere. I suppose you think Carl Jung was a successful "resister" as well? Jung was an "initiate" known for his Jew baiting -- but maybe on Judgment Day he can blame Philemon (his 'spirit guide') Personally, I believe everybody deserves one kind warning. After that, I'm not going to interfere with their 'constitutional' right to go to what Sophia might term the theological place of perpetual punishment!
 
Just read that Sophia perceives that I am still stuck in the 'misconstruction' of her Lucifer comment. I didn't misconstrue it and moreover, that's what they all say, included but not limited to David Spangler who frantically and sometimes successfully with naive evangelicals, tried to convince everybody he meant anything but the plain words he used in his book, REFLECTIONS ON THE CHRIST to adulate and adore his chosen deity, Lucifer. Sophia, after 25 years of reading and analyzing this garbage (you may pronounce the French way to give it the proper 'New Age' air of effete 'sophistication'. A rose by any other name is still a rose. And so is a skunk!
 
Regarding Constance's 8:25 Post:
Many here have posted scriptural warnings and obviously it has been rejected. Once this happens, we have been instructed by Jesus to desist. There is a scripture that makes me believe that a continual giving of what is holy to that which is unholy becomes sin on our part. As you so gracefully put it, one kind warning is adequate. I praise the Lord that he has placed us in a country where we can all choose to worship as we please.

Some scriptures: Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it

My heart sinks as I read posts that show first hand how Lucifer has killed souls.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I encourage everyone to pray for people who who Jesus has described as being in this position.
RichInMedford
 
New Group of World Servers is a branch of Lucis Trust. In the past the website was quite full of information regarding groups and events. Probably since it became too well known for their purposes, much information has been deleted from the website. One of the "now you see it, now you don't" things that Constance mentioned. Anyway, go to ngws.org and then to the emagazine page you can link to at the top. Look at the list of individuals they like to think of as ngws members. I don't know if these people really joined or whether their names and pictures were just used, but it does show what Lucis Trust finds politically useful.
 
I should have mentioned, you have to point your mouse over the picture to get the names.
 
To DavidInBattleCreek
I’ve been looking for some of our friend Sophia's writings. I encountered two sites that may interest to you.

Notice on this blog the first comment re Rick Warren.
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/archives/2006/03/a_transformatio.php

A little bit of the global peace plan.
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/peaceplan.htm

Rich
 
Anon 5:55, your evaluation of Heidegger doesn't agree with the facts. He lost his position as a result of disobeying the Nazi edict to restrict Jewish professors to the Hebrew language. Yes, he was not interred like more active resisters, but he was marginalized.

To say that Hitler is a New Ager because he used an expression like "New Age" is similar to saying he was Chinese because the tetragammaton is a Chinese character. Or, to say that he was a proponent of Friedrich Nietzsche because he used the word "uebermensch."

Antisemitism is a fact of Catholic history. Face that fact, and quit trying to sidestep the issue.

RichInMedford, I assume you want me to answer the question about my stance on Blavatsky, Bailey, Creme, and Spangler. Had I a stance, I'd affirm it. Unfortunately, I'm unfamiliar with their writings. However, I have heard many positive remarks about Ms. Blavatsky.

You needn't pray for my soul, it is yours that needs saving.

Constance, ditto on Heidegger's supposed antisemitism. If Jung was such an antisemite, why were his most prominent students Jewish?

A little theological history lesson on Lucifer:

Traditionally, Venus (called Lucifer as the morning star) is associated with the Moon. "Venus reflects the Moon." The Moon is traditionally associated with the decay of flesh, hence the association with evil.

In the Sumerian wisdom cycles, the prinicple feminine divine entity is associated with the dissolution of a tyrant's strength. From the perspective of despotism, feminine divinity is a threat and an immediate evil.
 
Jung was definitely an antisemite. Check Richard Noll's books. I don't remember reading he had s significant number of Jewish followers. Could you cite your source? But then again you seem to come up short in that area in all of your responses. Sorry kiddo, you don't seem to be a fountain of wisdom that we should take your top of the head pronouncements as gospel.

Oh wow. Heidigger was marginalized!!! At a time when any resisters were carted away by the hundreds, we are to think being marginalized was a big thing. The occult New Age mission failed with Hitler, so anyone on the academic occult path has to disavow any connection with his mission rather than realize how foolish the occult path is. Hitler described his plan as "New Age" many times. Knowing the movement actually started around the early 1900s, he was going to bring it in.

Neither the Spence or Melton encyclopedias of the occult mention your theory about Lucifer. If I can be blunt, something has really messed up your ability to think clearly.

Sumerian Wisdom Cycle? I do believe you confuse folklore with reality.
 
To Sophia,
I'm sure the Blavatsky's writings are absolutely wonderful if you are a blond haired, blue eyed pagan awaiting the restoration of the Aryan master race. Hmmm, isn't that what Hitler attempted? It is as I suspected, you are ignorant of most of the new age visionaries’ writings--not to mention history. I can no longer any of your posts seriously.
RichInMedford
 
Sumerian wisdom? Oh yes, that's the fertility goddess stuff before people knew anything about babies in the womb. Here's a fun site for that kind of magical stuff. http://inanna.virtualave.net/neareast.html
 
Another question Sophia,
Is there a difference between the St. Sophia Community whose project is
http://www.gnosticcenter.org/home.html

and the Sophia Community you mention in one of your postings.
"Sophia Sadek said...
Our order is called "The Sophia Community." We are oriented in the oral traditions."
 
Thank you, Rich. The first link didn't quite print all the way on this blog, so I just went to the home page of that link. I'm still going through the March archives to read about Sophia's writings. If it's somehow in connection with Rick Warren, this could add to my argument that my church should break with this purpose-driven movement. Hopefully before next October and the next 40 day installment.

As for the second site, I did read that before. At least I think I did.
 
To DavidInBattleCreek
I've reposted the links with them broken up so you can see the whole thing. I encountered the first one as I was reading Sophia's various blog writings. I'm not suggesting that she is connected with Warren. I think you'll find these links interesting.

http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/
archives/2006/03/a_transformatio.php

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/
peaceplan.htm

RichInMedford
 
Oh things are getting juicy and heating up, yes indeed.
 
Okay, I did find the web site and read her comments, which is consistent with her comments here. In regards to my previous comment I mistakingly wrote it while trying to watch my two young boys (one is 14 months old and the other is 4 years old with a mild form of autism). My wife had just left the house for an errand. As I was writing it, they were up to something.

She may not have a connection to RW, but it certainly was a pat on the back for "evangelicals" such as RW.
 
Sophia is a naughty one
 
Well, Sophia, that's a good one -- and you claim to be a "Professor" of metaphysics. What kind of a professor of the school of metaphysics you claim to be from would be ignorant of the writings of

1. Helena Petrovna Blavatsky
2. Alice Ann Bailey
3. David Spangler
4. Benjamin Creme

Well, maybe if that's the case (and I sincerely doubt it -- I have discovered that many New Agers of the hypnotizer variety as Sophia appears to be are charming, invterate liars) -- that might explain why she can't see that Hitler's personal "metaphysics" were from those schools, but then again, undoubtedly hers are too!

Maybe you didn't take your school of "metaphysics 101 -- or maybe you bought the degree from one of those paper mills.

Come on Sophia, you are talking to me. Don't tell me you aren't famliar with at least Blavatsky and Bailey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Constance, going thru Google, the interest in Sophia as the esoteric female equivalent of the male Christ (not specifically Jesus) appears to be a trendy thing in the esoteric New Age movement.

I know you are familiar with Sancta Sophia Seminary which is connected with Lucis Trust. They are connected with the Light of Christ Community Church.

For those who don't know, students may enroll in the following programs:
Foundations of Spirituality
Preparation for Certification as a
Teacher of Esoteric Philosophy
Preparation for Ordination
Preparation for Lay Eucharistic Ministry
Wellness Guide Certification
Spiritual Mentor Certification

Graduate Programs:
Master of Divinity
Master of Theology
Master of Arts in Holistic Wellness
Master of Arts in Spirituality
Doctor of Ministry
Doctor of Theology
Doctor of Philosophy in Religious Studies
Doctor of Philosophy in Spiritual Studies
Doctor of Philosophy in Holistic Wellness

"Many seminary courses are approved for continuing education units for Licensed Clinical Social Workers, Licensed Professional Counselors
Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists
Certified Alcohol and Drug Counselors" according to their information.

Now do readers of this blog understand how New Age thinking enters the mainstream?
 
Rich in Medford,

Could you give me more info or direct me to websites concerning your findings on the(Purpose Driven Life author)Warren? I have read the book and found it to be inspirational.

If there is something unhealthy and misleading about his agenda and writings that I should be aware of I would like to know.

Thanks,
Nancy
 
Dear Nancy,
I'm going to ask David In Battle Creek to answer your question as he is the one examining Warren. I posted the link because I stumbled upon it and know David is researching in that area. I have a few other links I can provide perhaps later today.
RichInMedford
 
Nancy,
Here is a link to the Slice of Laodicea blog which has some additional Rick Warren quotes. I've broken the link apart so you can see the whole thing. You may need to reconstruct it in your address block.

http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/
archives/2005/09/rick_warrens_pe.php

Rich
 
Thanks Dave and Rich. This, for those who feel they don't have the time to check out Warren material, should be a start. It is a comment that appears at the site Rich posted.

"Do you still wonder where the new spirituality of reimagined "Christian" mysticism and its contemplative prayer (aka transcendental medition) is going to lead all those fools who follow it? Then consider the following from Warren Smith, written in 2002, from Reinventing Jesus Christ: The New Gospel:

"Concerned" that humanity is in peril and facing possible extinction, this "Christ" explains that his "new gospel" will unify the world's major religions and bring peace to the world. He has communicated these "new gospel" teachings to his designated teachers, who in turn are now conveying these same teachings to the rest of the world.

This "reinvented" Christ of the "new gospel" teaches that all of humanity is the body of Christ. He, as the "Christ," is the head. This "Christ" states humanity's dilemma is that we have forgotten who we are. We are not "sinners" separate from God. We are all part of the one body of Christ and the one body of God. Salvation does not come by grace from accepting Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Rather it is achieved - when we accept ourselves as Christ and when we accept ourselves as God.

The "new gospel" teaches that when humanity collectively accepts and experiences itself as being a part of Christ and a part of God, we not only save ourselves, we save our world. The "Christ" of the "new gospel" warns that the hour is late. Peace must come. He will help. He has a plan. But everyone must play their part."
Posted by Rev. Ken Silva on March 31, 2006 @ 05:32 PM

Warren Smith is a former New Age follower.
 
Anon 5:41, My comments on Lucifer are not derived from occult literature. They are derived from classical sources. That's probably why they don't show up in occult encyclopaedias.

The Sumerian wisdom cycles are a rich source of ancient culture. They should not be brushed off so quickly.

Your comment on the mildness of Heidegger's persecution is similar to the guff he received from communists after the war.

Occultism did not start at the turn of the century. It's been around as long as civilization.

RichInMedford, thanks for being honest about not taking me seriously. I didn't think you took me seriously to begin with. Yes, it's true, my familiarity with New Agers is not as strong as it should be. But, it is you who have a sparse knowledge of history.

Anon 5:44, as for Sumerian literature, see above.

Anon 7:32, the Sophia Community where I teach is different from the St. Sophia Community in NYC.

Constance, I'm in the process of correcting the hole in my familiarity with Blavatsky.

One doesn't need the authors you mentioned to teach metaphysics. If anything, one can do better without them.
 
When I first read The Purpose-driven Life it was in the fall of 2002. I read it in conjunction with the 40 Days of Purpose which my church participated in. Our church did this as a prelude to our committment Sunday, which is typically done the Sunday before Thanksgiving. I didn't think there was a new age connection at first. I, too, found the book inspiring. I thought maybe this guy was much like a modern day Apostle Paul. I really didn't think much about it, but there was something that kept bothering me about it. I put it out of my mind.

The next fall we followed up with a Rick Warren bible study of James. This also was a lead in to our Committment Sunday of 2003. In 2004 we didn't even do a Rick Warren campaign. In 2005 we followed the 40 Days of Community. I still didn't really see the new age connection at first. However, Rick Warren described in one of his videos that the next 40 days would be a focused on global missions. I didn't think anything about that either. Then he explained how it was his goal to take us from thinking about our individual purposes, to the churches purpose in connection with each other and reaching out to the local community and then finally reaching out to the world. The way he phrased it, it almost sounded close to the New Age slogan "Act locally--Think globally."

This inspired me to do a web search. I typed in Rick Warren & New Age and got a flood of sites. I couldn't believe there were others who were seeing new age undertones with Rick Warren.

I have more to this story, but it goes on and on. Also, Nancy, I do explain more in my blog. Follow the links Rich provided because there's a lot in that web site.
 
Sophia,
If your purpose here is to advocate initiation/address our concerns, you need to become familiar with the movement. "New Age Almanac (The One Fact Book You Need for New Age Understanding)" would be a nice starting place. The beginning section will direct you to the foundational writings of the modern new age movement. The middle would direct you to the new age evangelists. You can even find Constance in there as a thorn to the movement. The end, or world view, section would direct you which visionaries to read. Even better, you might chance reading the Bible from cover to cover. So let me ask you, what is your purpose here? To set the record straight? You can't even compare the Nazi doctrine to Blavatsky's secret doctrine? Dietrich Eckart took credit for initiating Hitler. Did you know that? No, it is not us who needs a history lesson, so back at you. There ample reason why one should not take you seriously--you have become merely a pest.
RichInMedford
 
Sophia, listen very carefully. We know that the occult has a long history. We've read James Webb's books. We know Manly Hall and his writings. We know the New Age movement started in the very early 1900s. We know that folklore is a rich source of psychological information, and that in earlier times it carried on information about the nature of people. We know that the folklore sections are generally next to the New Age/occult sections in bookstores.

If you have the intellectual capacity to slog thru the folklore of goddess worship, you definitely have the ability to search outside of the system you believe in now. You might want to look at how cults operate.
 
Sophia, listen very carefully. We know that the occult has a long history. We've read James Webb's books. We know Manly Hall and his writings. We know the New Age movement started in the very early 1900s. We know that folklore is a rich source of psychological information, and that in earlier times it carried on information about the nature of people. We know that the folklore sections are generally next to the New Age/occult sections in bookstores.

If you have the intellectual capacity to slog thru the folklore of goddess worship, you definitely have the ability to search outside of the system you believe in now. You might want to look at how cults operate.
 
Sophia,

You sound exactly like the Elizabeth Burrows I debated successfully in 1987. I'm sorry, but so far I'm convinced that far from not knowing the Theosophical writings, that you probably know them VERY WELL. Even if you didn't they probably all came from the same poisoned well -- or, as the Scriptures called it MYSTERY BABYLON THAT CORRUPTED ALL NATIONS -- now I know why the New Agers all call them "secret" -- they all have the SAME SECRETS, i.e., "Thou shalt not surely die"; "Thou shalt be as gods" --
and they all think they are part of an exclusive elite which will take over, only to find out they are pinheads in a mass movement.
 
Sophia,

I am honestly most interested in your "classical sources" in literature about Lucifer. Can you please give me an online bibliography of your sources?

Thank you,
CONSTANCE E. CUMBEY
 
The New Age Movement in MODERN FORM started in 1875 when Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Colonel Olcott, and William L. Q. Judge founded the Theosophical Society in New York City. It drew on many older sources, such as the Rosicrucians, Transcendentalists, various gnostic cults, Masonic brotherhoods, etc., etc., In reality, it is as old as Lucifer himself posing as the snake he really was in the Garden of Eden and telling Eve the two whoppers which are still mainstay doctrine for the New Age Movement not to mention excellent marketing materials for the same wormy apple he sold Eve with the sales line of:

1. Eat this, and thou shalt not surely die [as God warned her she would] and
2. Eat this and thou shalt be as gods.

Eve bought it and we've been paying the accrued penalty and interest ever since. Interestingly, New Agers love to sneer at this story the most, but when you peruse their books, a common theme is buy into their gnosticism and

1. Thou shalt not surely die (reincarnation, you know);
2. Thou shalt be as gods (once the serpent/kundalini energy transmits itself through the seven chakras and transmutes itself through the crown chakra!

This also probably helps explain the New Age emphasis on altered states. I once saw a sign in a store that said, "you don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps!" Ditto for the New Age "meditational" practices which many credible studies show rewire the brain not unlike the effects of taking dangerous mind altering psychotropic drugs. I'd have to be out of my mind to accept the premises -- and to think they're delivered by a talking serpent with the same mindless message he sold to Eve! And they call that "higher intelligence"?
 
Sophia,
One prominent new age visionary tell us of the collective whole's transcendence. She states that the 666 is the number for initiation. You remarked earlier that the Revelation 13 "mark of the beast" scripture is a reference to the acts of organizations such as the kkk. This quote is from one of the new age writings which tells us of the conscious evolution:

"Out of the full spectrum of human personality, one-fourth is electing to transcend.... One-fourth is destructive [and] they are defective seeds. In the past they were permitted to die a 'natural death.'... Now as we approach the quantum shift from the creature-human to the co-creative human -- the human who is an inheritor of god-like powers -- the destructive one-fourth must be eliminated from the social body.... Fortunately, you are not responsible for this act. We are. We are in charge of God's selection process for planet Earth. He selects, we destroy. We are the riders of the pale horse, Death."

Is this a position you support? Obviously, you may be facing this quantum transformation and, according to this new age visionary, will need to make a decision whether or not to receive the 666 initiation as she tells us it is the new age christ's sifting process.

Given the fact that they intend a mass slaughter, what position do you intend to take? Initiate or no initiate?

RichInMedford
 
Dr. James Kennedy -- Coral Ridge Ministries http://www.coralridge.org/ -- just completed an excellent piece on gnosticism in his DaVinci Code sermon. Copies can be ordered for a $1 donation.
 
Sophia
Personally you need to get your heart right with Jesus. You need to realize he was God and not just a God. He was GOD. How many more lies, newage, and BLASPHMEY are you going to write people on this web site. The people on this site are in the born again Christian Camp many of us know JESUS CHRIST AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR. I don't buy into your newage garbage. And as far as Hitler goes during World War 2 I had family living in nazi Germany. We weren't even Jewish and I had family members die just because they were Christian and Cathloic. In 1993 my mom went to Germany to see my cousins and she brought back my family tree. My cousin Anni told my mom what it was like living under Hitler. My cousin had to go hide just to pray. My question for you is could you handle living in fear 24 hours a day. You being a newager more than likely couldn't because most people could not. You need to wake up and realize what your really into.
 
Sophia
I don't need optical specs. I'm not in the newage movement.
Spirtually speaking I know your a newager. I'm a born again Christian.
Eagle eyes.
 
Sophia
I don't need optical specs. I'm not in the newage movement.
Spirtually speaking I know your a newager. I'm a born again Christian.
Eagle eyes.
 
Thanks again for all of the wonderful input.

Constance, I'm sorry, but I don't have any online bibliographical information for you. Our classical library includes material from Pythagoreans, Stoics, Paripatetics, Epicureans, Eleatics, et al.

As for poisoned wells, wisdom does have a poisonous quality. Like meat vs. milk being unsuited to the infant, the nature of heavenly food is incompatible with the mortal digestive system.

RichInMedford, as for the comparison between National Socialism and theosophy, like the works of Nietzsche, the National Socialists stole and perverted the works of the theosophists.

National Socialism, at heart, is another form of Tory philosophy. It has its ultimate roots in the bigotries of the Christian tradition. Any reflection of those bigotries in the works of the theosophists indicates their immaturity.

As for your grim reaper reference, that's new to me.

Anon 7:29, in your effort to dismiss folklore, you may find yourself trampling pearls of wisdom under foot. Such beastly behavior is not becoming.

We know very well how cults operate. We've performed many successful cult deprogrammings.

Anon 1:33, as far as blasphemy goes, I've been accused of it before. Since Christ was accused of blasphemy by someone of your mentality, it doesn't bother me one bit.

EagleEyes, as far as a rebirth is concerned, we like to say that there is no spiritual life without spiritual birth. And, of course, there is no spiritual birth without a spiritual mother.

There are two Holy Spirits. Both of them are feminine, but one of them is deceptive. Consequently, she masquerades as a masculine entity. "Hot damn! I ain't never gonna git outta hell, cuz I waz barn of th' deceptive Spirit!"
 
Sophia,
Sophia,
Another prominent New Age visionary writes of initiation:

“Christ is the same force as Lucifer... Lucifer prepares man for the experience of Christhood. (He is) the great initiator.”

And also:

“…there are a few words which can be said about where the old world and those attuned to it will go…the old world now exists only as a disintegrating world memory. Those who stand upon it for support find that it is becoming like shifting sand…It would not be without precedence for them to be withdrawn into the inner worlds, to live in an “upstairs” room which would reflect the needs of their consciousnesses and minister to those needs. In other words, the planet or plane or level to which they will go, through the law of attraction, may not be “somewhere else.” It may be another level of Earth’s own consciousness where they can be contained and ministered to until such time as they can be released safely into physical embodiment again.

Once again, as with the "grim reaper" post, do you support this? “Deal or no deal?”

If we get things wrong, we will be re-released back into physical embodiment. If you have things wrong, the price is costly. You'll get the gift that keeps on giving. It's not too late to take a second look.

RichInMedford
 
By the way Sophia, there's only a certain amount of ignorance you can claim. By being here, you are becoming fully aware of the genocide aspect of the new age movement. "That's new to me" is neither a position nor an excuse. At the judgement, it especially will not work.

RichInMedford
 
Sophia, you are starting to get very boring. A lively debater you are not, probably as a result of lacking intelligent material with which to work.
 
Anon 7:29, in your effort to dismiss folklore, you may find yourself trampling pearls of wisdom under foot. Such beastly behavior is not becoming.

Thanks for the advice, but I think I will just stay away from your pearls of wisdom. I checked your store and all you have are cheap knockoffs.
 
RichInMedford, I'm unfamiliar with the source material that you quote. Without the context in which it was written, I can't commit to accept or reject it.

Anon 6:06, many apologies for the lack of intelligent material. That's what happens when one is steeped in the Trinitarian tradition.

Anon 7:29, I didn't expect you to see any value in our gems. That's all for the best.
 
Sophia,

Let’s step back to your 4:37 PM post and in particular, “like the works of Nietzsche, the National Socialists stole and perverted the works of the theosophists.” We know Hitler was initiated into the mysteries and we know by whom. We’ve heard the same old rubbish before that Hitler perverted theosophy. Imagine, had he only not inverted the swastika where we would be today!

Now let’s look at the killing passages in which you refuse to state a position. Released from physical embodiment is authored by theosophist in good standing David Spangler (Revelation, Birth of a New Age) and grim reaper by Barbara Marx Hubbard (Revelation, Alternative to Armageddon). Hubbard, well respected by thosophists, leaves trails of bread crumbs in her works that leads to theosophy.

Both author’s writings exhibit their “highly evolved” understanding on the subject. Do you suppose that you can align them and identify consistencies with Hitler’s understanding of theosophy? After all, Hitler merely implemented exactly what present day visionaries Spangler and Hubbard indicate to be a necessary component of initiation! Are they also perverting theosophy? To suggest that these highly respected--not to mention most highly evolved--visionaries are immature and perverting theosophy is surely an insult to them. How dare you! They most certainly are much higher degree initiates than you! They are at the forefront of the movement. Babs has been preparing initiates for over 30 years to assume their co-creative roles during the quantum transformation. Your typical run of the mill new ager doesn’t get invited to the Kremlin or get nominated to run as vice president of the United States. David has an equally impressive resume. He lectures worldwide preparing planetary citizens for their role in the co-creative process. As one lecture moderator introduces him, “he has secrets to share and strategies to learn.” We’ve shared some of his secrets here. Do a Google search and check these people out for yourself.

Sophia, do you really want to partake in this ugly aspect of the new age? If this takes you by surprise, you might consider that maybe you’re being handed a beautiful package filled with bull. Once you’ve fully opened the cover, there’s no turning back. Do you really believe that Christ himself would enact such a plan and do you really believe that this plan will fare well at the judgment seat?

RichInMedford
 
TO THE ANONYMOUS WHO SAID:
"The Christian church is a broad church ...as long as they believe the central message of the Gospel and that the Bible is the Word of God, then why attack them?"

What IS the "central message" of the Gospel? How many churches agree? How we decide which is right? Do we vote on it? Do we let some group of men tell us that they'll do the thinking for us or do we decide for ourselves? And what do we base our decision on? On the Word itself - comparing the Word to what men/women/tradition say? Are we willing to "stand alone" on the Word of God?

Jesus said, "For many shall come in my name..."

To some who come in Jesus' name, he will say, "Depart from me; I never knew you."

Does just "believing" that the Bible is the Word of God make one a Christian?

Even Satan "believes" that the Bible is the Word of God. Obviously mere "belief" is not THE standard.

Also, how do you explain those who believe it necessary to believe in other books of the bible, and other books that are given equal weight as the Bible, other teachings & traditions not included in the Bible? How do you explain those who "believe" that their church's leader has authority over their souls? Or those who think that a mere sinful man can forgive sin? Or those who pray to a woman rather than to Jesus? Or those who think that the mother of Jesus is the mother of God - God, the spirit who has no beginning or end? Or that Jesus' body can be magically transformed from a cracker?

When we disagree with others, are we attacking THEM or are THEY attacking the Bible? Who will stand for God?
 
Sophia, again with the generalities. Making rash judgments about the beliefs of other people seems to be one of your "pearls of wisdom." Trinitarian? Far from it.
 
Rich, I think you may be doing Sophia a favor by informing her that the current studies of Theosophists such as those connected with the Theosophical Society and Lucis Trust exist. Based on her comments left around the internet, I think she is living in the lalaland of the early theosophists going back thousands of years. She may be more into paganism than politics. I haven't found a clue yet that shows she knows what is happening in the world much less in the world of the Theosophical Society or Lucis Trust, not to even mention the other New Age organizations.
 
I have concluded my debate with Sophia. It appears that all she can do is drop in and hurl insults at us. Her arguments have no substance. It leaves me wonder, what is her intended purpose here? I don't see any persuasiveness. From the posts I read, neither does anyone else.
RichInMedford
 
Rich, as you probably saw when you checked the internet, she has posted at many different sites, from Orthodox Christian ones to Gnostic ones. She has come back here repeatedly because she gets attention here. She is caught in a bind because she acts as if her information is secretive, when it reality there is nothing secretive about the world of the gnostics. She is working with one set of information, you with another. The two worlds are not meeting with any kind of common information.

All wasn't lost. She got some leads that should put her on guard as to what she is involved with. Readers here saw the reality of how Christianity is viewed by those who hold with pagan beliefs.
 
Anybody, Sophia included, is welcome to post here and anybody is welcome to answer. Even Solana can post here, should he wish, and we are certainly able to answer. I only ask that the conversations be kept civil and non-redundant!
 
My apologies for the strong and perhaps disrespectful language.
RichInMedford
 
Sophia,
I specifically owe you an apology. I responded with a bit of anger and should have been more thoughtful. I was wrong in the way I worded my response. I do ask for your forgiveness.
RichInMedford
 
It looks like Constance turned on the airconditioner in this room.

Richard in Medford don't feel too bad as you are passionate about your beliefs. (As well as others are that join this room) We all know that God reigns and will have the last say.

The Bible says that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord

Keep up informing and encouraging your brothers and sisters in Christ. Same to you Constance.
 
Probably my comments to Sophia were the sharpest and most unkind of all -- I personally believe she knows what she is doing. I must admit that I am partial to Rich of Medford and our "anonymous" who I suspect to be from Illinois, not to mention our Battle Creek correspondent who keep both the faith and the intelligent exchange going. I must admit Sophia livened things up and her conversion would be nice, but I don't intend to beat her over the head with the evidence, once she's had a rational presentation. But I would hate to see this board itself degenerate into a sort of secret society as some of the boards and exchanges around the internet appear to becoming. Thanks to all the posters here!
 
Thanks for your kind words Constance and Anon 8:28. It probabally did need a bit cooling down in here. I too would hate to see Sophia disappear from here. I figure if she hangs out here long enough she can't help but convert.
RichInMedford
 
RichInMedford, not to worry, I don't take your blow torch personally.

It is true, our organization is more mature than the New Agers you cite. There are people who think that they have found the answer, when, in fact, they have only found a pointer to a ladder that leads to the answer. Such is the nature of Theosophy.

I first read the Bible when I was in my twenties. I recognized then that I didn't have everything I needed to understand it. After nearly two decades of practical experience, it finally began to make sense to me.

Anon 1:11, in a sense you are correct that I am out of the loop with respect to the New Age movement. On the other hand, I'm hardly living in the past. If anything, I'm living the future today.

Constance, thanks for the welcoming words.
 
Dear Sophia,

Thanks. I can get quite passionate when I read words like I quoted. I'm a freedom lovinig person who believes "live and let live." If I saw something on the horizon that planned harm for new agers or any other group, I would oppose it with the same passion.

RichInMedford
 
Sophia wrote:
"I first read the Bible when I was in my twenties. I recognized then that I didn't have everything I needed to understand it. After nearly two decades of practical experience, it finally began to make sense to me."

My comment: What do you want to bet she has a gnostic interpretation of the Bible that differs wildly from that of regular Christians.
 
We’ve been a bit occupied in lively debate with Sophia that I haven’t posted any news--thanks Sophia, it's been real!

I’ve broken the links into parts so you may need to rejoin them back together:

It looks like the First World Buddhist Forum has excluded the Dalai Lama
http://en.chinabroadcast.cn
/811/2006/04/12/176@76729.htm

Also, did anyone else read the weekend headlines that the Bush administration has threated Iran with nuclear missiles? I know that its a hot bed over there, but I am extremely uncomfortable with that approach. Does anyone else share my concern?

RichInMedford
 
The one I read was about Jimmy Carter threating Iran with nukes. His bad karma is building fast since 1979 and now he wants to make ammends for leaving the hostages there 400 plus days.
 
Hope these links fully display.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;
jsessionid=C3HY5I431EHHRQFIQMGSFFWAVCBQ
WIV0xml=/news/2006/04/09/wbush09.
xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/04/09/ixportaltop.html

http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/537/2006/04/11/
189@75783.htm
 
Hope these links will display.

http://download.premiereradio.net/guest/rushlimb/pdf/041206_limletcarter_1.pdf

http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/8781
 
RichinMedford asked...

"Does anyone else share my concern?"


Ummm...YEAH! lol

I've been watching this Iran versus America situation for a while now and it is getting worse and worse. No improvement has been made. While I hope that we don't go to war with Iran, I kinda think that it is inevitable.

David
Maranatha!
 
Not connected to the New Age movement, but add this to Herb's summary of 2010 activity. Found at
http://jewishworldreview.com/0406/glick040706.php3
The rise of the Islamic axis.

"This Monday Russia's Novaya Gazeta newspaper reported that part of Ukraine's Soviet-era nuclear arsenal may well have found its way to Iran. With the breakup of the Soviet Union, the Ukrainians agreed to transfer the Soviet nuclear arsenal that remained in Ukraine after independence to Russia. According to Novaya Gazeta, some 250 nuclear warheads never made it to Russia and are thought to have been sent to Iran instead. The report further noted that the warheads in question will remain operational until 2010."
(more at the link)

When I saw that 2010 date, I wonder if the Israelis changed the final plans of setting Israel's borders from 2010 to 2008 because they wanted to be prepared in the event that Iran wanted to use the warheads before they become unoperational.
 
To Anon 11:18 PM
Thanks for the links. It's interesting to look back and watch the progression of this thing. I remember registering for the draft during the Carter administration, so I recall the material you posted. This can’t be placed at only Carter's feet though, it has occurred over the span of many administrations. Things appear to be progressing at an exponential rate. Lee Penn’s False dawn exhibits how our freedom is being attacked from both the left and the right. So which direction are we to turn other than up.

This verse may be somewhat out of context, but it seems appropriate:

2 Chronicles 34:2 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the ways of David his father, and declined neither to the right hand, nor to the left.

Thanks John 14:6, I’m glad to see I’m not the only troubled by the nuclear missile threat. I’m beginning to think we could very well see the movement of Gog and Magog and allies very soon.

Rich
 
Rich,

One can only be percieved as a lefty when his comments are from the left. Hence my rebuttal earlier about Carter. Not my intention to debate. Have a nice day!
 
Thanks Anon, mine neither. I think that most Americans' heads are spinning right now wondering what is going on. It does make the neither to the left or right scripture so much more pertinent. Whichever political direction we have available to turn appears to be so wrong.
Rich
 
Do not miss the piece that appears in at EUreferendum.blogspot.com, linked to at the home page here.

The New Age movement has very sinister, controlling side, just as the communists did. By now you all know the Mother Earth, Gaia, global warming routine, coming out of the Sustainability program originating at the UN. The Wall Street Journal, linked to at the mentioned blogspot, has an article which states that a respected scientist has come out stating that the scientific community has been politically cowed by the politicians who use global warming as their cause. North at the blog gives supporting evidence from his own experience.

From the blog: "His thesis is that global-warming alarmists intimidate dissenting scientists into silence, who in turn are bolstering junk science to support alarmist claims about global warming. But, worst of all, writes Sloan, scientists who dissent from the alarmism have seen their grant funds disappear, their work derided, and themselves libelled as industry stooges, scientific hacks or worse. Consequently, lies about climate change gain credence even when they fly in the face of the science that supposedly is their basis."
(more at the link)
 
Gee, it looks like history is coming full circle. It's good to know the history of Iran and its connection to the Judeo-Christian tradition.

One of the sore points between Persia and Greece was over the treatment of sacred icons. The Persians attacked the Greeks for locking up the gods in temples. That was their way of opposing the Greek sacred statuary. The Persians were iconoclasts even before converting to Islam.

There is a connection to global warning as well. Zoroaster recognized a relationship between the Persian royal court and the process of desertification. Persia was a forest kingdom that had been turned into a wasteland by deforestation. Zoroaster promoted a less taxing form of governance that would not spread the process of deforestation throughout the rest of the world.

The negative climatic effect of excessive industrial exploitation of natural resources is an established historic fact. The only bad science is on the part of those who ignore history.

Rich, I agree, sabre rattling with nukes is bad policy. It's a bit hypocritical to speak against terrorism while practicing terrorism.

Anon 2:08, yes, we understand many aspects of the Bible differently than traditional Christian theology. Given the history of the texts of the Bible, that makes sense. After all, the people who founded the school of traditional Christian theology had stolen the texts. They had no idea what they truly meant. There is an entire body of misinterpretation that surrounds the texts.
 
Please excuse the error in comment 10:32. The Wall Street Journal had a typo. The Professor referred to is RICHARD LINDZEN at MIT.
 
I’ve read/listened to both sides of the global warming debate tend to get stuck deciding which side is true. I’m inclined to believe the earth is warming at an alarming rate for two reasons: 1) time comparisons of satellite images of the polar ice caps; and 2) judgement referenced in Revelation. Revelation 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory

RichInMedford
 
Rich, did you catch this in the comments section over there? We are not going to die from heat as "Global temperature has risen about a degree since the late 19th century;..."

Comment:
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned last Sunday's Telegraph article by Professor Bob Carter a geologist at James Cook University Queensland engaged in paleoclimate research.

This was entitled "There IS a problem with global warming ... it stopped in 1998" We have more to fear from another ice age , argues climatologist Bob Carter , yet scientific brainwashing is keeping the truth from both public and politicians"
Link . . http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion
/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/04/09/do0907.xml
 
Yeah Anon, they may not die but they'll all be walking around looking like they have bad perms.
 
More New Age information -- it never stops.
April 21-26
Eighth International Conference on Science and Consciousness
http://www.bizspirit.com/science/index.html

Join a heart-cented event exploring the nature of our existence. Learn what lies beyond our cultural perspectives of reality through healing traditions from around the world. Experience the cutting edge of the merging of consciousness and science. More than 45 esteemed presenters--including (names given) are leading such workshops as "Goddesses of the Three Phases: Archetypal Sources of Wisdom and Meaning," "Direct experience and Uses of Spiritual Law" amd "Transforming Mind into Matter: New Alchemy of Science and Spirit."

If you think this is the only conference taking place, here are a few more: http://www.bizspirit.com/

The information quoted was obtained from the hard copy of the April 2006 issue of Science and Theology News.

Their website is www.stnews.org. For twenty plus years now this part of the New Age movement has been developing. The goal is to get acceptance for a belief system that can be proved scientifically and to deny credentials to those who cannot meet the criteria.
 
Looks like I’ll have a bit of reading ahead of me tonight. Just an FYI post for anyone interested in the evangelization of China. A few links:

World Buddhist Forum Official website www.wbf.net.cn

1st Int'l Buddhist Forum opens
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/
2006-04/13/content_4418338.htm

Buddhist Rally Urges Meditation on Peace
http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/811/
2006/04/14/53@77405.htm

I've broken the links apart so they completely display. You may need to rejoin them.
RichInMedford
 
I usually don't get a chance to post comments during the week. Once in a while I'll glance at the comments. I thought I needed to say something on this Maundy Thursday. One of the best way to grow in the Christian faith is to have others challenge what we believe. This is a great way to reaffirm our faith.

In reaching out to others outside the faith it's always important to remember that it's an invitation. Unfortunately, we can't draft people into the faith, we can only offer. There's also a difference in respecting other people's viewpoints and accepting their beliefs.

I must say this has been a very interesting discussion. I really haven't followed it all week. I certainly missed a lot.
 
I've tried as Anonymous to provide you with ongoing information about the New Age movement and its expanding growth. Is there anyone out there who is tracking the growth but who has not responded? From what I've seen, there are only people who are into end-times speculation. Are there questions? Are there contradictions? Sometimes it feels as if I am talking into a pillow. I have been tracking the information for the last 25 years also, but have chosen to remain anonymous on these threads.

Dear people, you must stick your selves out occasionally and not depend on others to carry the ball for you all of the time. You will answer for your lack of activity in the long run if the faith we share in common is truth.
 
The United Religions Initiative fully embraces Buddhism yet rejects “fundamentalist” Christianity because Christians hold to the belief that Jesus Christ is the true messiah. This, they point out, makes us feel that Christianity is superior to all other religions. The URI also opposes Christians’ evangelization efforts. As Constance pointed out in a previous post, that is “proselytizing.” Hmm, it appears that this standard applies only to Christians. Some quotes from the Buddhist World Conference:

“Firstly, Buddhism enjoys cultural superiority in safeguarding world peace. All the terrorist activities and violent incidents arise either from interest conflicts or from differences of ideology.... The religious doctrine of selflessness, charity, respect, equality and tolerance [Buddhism] enjoys overwhelming superiority in safeguarding world peace.” Analyzing the Realistic Choice of Buddhism in Safeguarding World Peace, Ven. Guoguang

“So this article suggests some aggressive constructive operational policies and some really effective measurees to spread the concept of the Human Buddhism into every corner of the world. In the face of the future, people will have to break with previous patterns and thinking…devising schemes for the future…” Significance of Integration of Human Buddhism and Education in the 21st Century, Ven. Haijue
Isaiah 8:11-13: 11For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, 12Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. 13Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.

I pray for the people in China that the Lord raises up a "Constance Cumbey" to warn them.
RichInMedford
 
To Anon 2:40 PM
I only read the post so missed that in the comments. Several years ago I read an analysis of the scientific community's warnings of a coming global warming or ice age. They couldn't agree which one it would be. But whichever the case, it presented a good justification for global governance.
RichInMedford
 
Rich, I do hope there are others reading this blog other than you, me, Constance and David.

The attack on Christianity doesn't have anything to do with Jesus as a messiah. It has to do with Christianity and Judaism (and Islam indirectly) as keepers of a belief in morality based on monotheism. It is the difference between morality based on respect for individual life and the morality based on the needs of the community.

Just one example. We, as citizens of the US, have aborted millions of human lives. Yet we, as citizens of the US, are expected to agree to the millions crossing our borders. It's called population control. Abort here. Get rid of the hotspots in Mexico that might upset the governmental control there.

It's morality coming out of the government rather than morality coming out of respect for individuals which is church or synagogue mentality.

I'm not a religious sage. Also, I do not respect the self-sanctioned morality coming out of supposedly politically conservative leadership.

It appears to me that there is so much going on behind the scenes that I can only understand by picking up clues regarding the New Age movement. I pass these clues on and thank those who supply me with more information as to what is taking place.
 
To the anon. 11:25. You said " The attack on christianity doesn't have anything to do with Jesus as a messiah". I hope I'm not taking this out of context or changing the meaning behind the statement, but this is the first thing that popped into my mind. Jesus said if they hated me they will hate you as well. This is an obvious battle of good verses evil. If Christians were to denounce their faith in Jesus, do you think there would be any more reason to attack christians. I personally don't see it. There would be nothing for us to stand on, and their arguement wins. For that matter any made up crap does. The fact that the Holy Spirit dwells within us makes it very obvious to the spiritual eyes of the world, good or evil that there is something different. Satan recognises every christian everywhere. Christians are people that satan can not live in. Satan's demons also recognise Christians as well. Anyone that is not of Christ is deffinately a suspect to terminate you to put it bluntly. Jesus said that we would be persecuted for believing in Him. I think the that nonbelievers recognise the spiritual light that shines from us, even when they dont realise it. They either persecute us or embrace us, and sometimes both. I have some good friends who are absolute militant atheists who enjoy my company because of my honest friendship towards them. But when I go to see them, an internal battle hits them hard, and I don't have to say a word. They love me for who I am to them, but they hate what is inside me that blinds them. Yet I see them struggle to want to have the light wich they hate. Its amazing how the spiritual battles rage on.
 
To Anon 11:25
I'm fairly certain we're not the only ones reading, although we may have been a bit more vocal this past month. I do agree with Child of God that there is a particular disdain for Christians because of Christ himself. The best way to eliminate the gospel is to eliminate those who have been commissioned to preach it. But God will never be silenced--no matter how dark the day. As Corrie Ten Boom has once so eloquently said “No matter how deep the pit, God’s love is deeper.”
Rich
 
I misquoted Corrie ten Boom, this is what she said:

“There is no pit so deep that God’s love is not deeper still.”

Rich
 
Corrie ten Boom on the Tribulation and Rapture

http://www.tedmontgomery.com/
bblovrvw/Rapture/corrie.html
 
Remember what Constance said...in the New Age you can believe whatever you want, but you just can't practice it. Believing in Jesus will not be a problem as long as you don't get in the way of anyone else.

Ask yourself what being a Christian means in your life. How does it affect your role as a community member? Have you taken a role as a community member against anything happening in your school district? Have you analyzed where your church may be moving into acceptance of the New Age movement? What about the news, or what is on television? Have you told anyone about the New Age movement and its goals? Do you know anything about New Age politics and have you told anyone about what is going on? Have you gotten in the way of the New Age movement in any way?

Believe in Jesus or have a seder in the house. No problem. In fact, being a Christian will be less of a problem than being Jewish.

All Christians in time will be targeted because some Christians get in the way of New Agers, and the believers in the New Age philosphy won't bother to take the time to separate the passives from the activists.

Sort of like it was in the time of the Romans.
 
Being an honest christian will eventually be a problem, wether anyone is willing to admit it or not. The belief is in the heart. When it is from the heart, it will not allow you to do certain things. Even if you are just a quiet person in Christ, you will still become a target. Just the belief itself will cause you to become the target. Its not just about if you stand in thier way of new age agenda, or satan worship or whatever, you become the target just because they can't have rule over your soul and can't cause you to submit. Your heart won't allow it. That is what enrages them. So to an extent I disagree that just believing in Jesus will not get you into trouble. It absolutely will. And it does not depend on the actions of other Christians. Ephesians 6:12 "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places". It is a spiritual war that is happening between God's people and satans angels influencing bodies. Everyone has spiritual eyes. Good or evil. Even the unsaved. They recognise the light. Jesus tells us first to become something not to do something. There are a lot of christians around who are still at the stage of becoming something. Set apart and holy. Jesus told the apostles to wait in Jerusalem until they recieved power. They had to become something before they could do something. This is not to defend the selfish christians who are something already, but are now not doing. But it is the responsability of Christians who do recognise the condition of the world to do something about it. This is where we come in. This is the opportunity of the overcoming churches.
 
Child of God, it is not Christians that people hate, only the things that Christians say and do.

Your reference to what Jesus said to his followers doesn't apply to Christians. If Christians actually followed Christ, they wouldn't say and do such hateful things.

Don't forget that the Church created a definition of "Christian" that effectively outlawed the followers of Christ. Their property was stolen. Their leaders were murdered. Their literature was destroyed. All in the name of Jesus.
 
Sophia: I pray that God opens your Eyes. You need salvation just as anyone else in this world. You need to understand that the Bible is God's word. Not just a book written by men. I am a Christian with a heart. I am still human. I do not stand for any abuse or persecution that the church has done. Know matter what denomination it is. I understand that some of the church history is very cruel. But there is a point to wich there is a realisation that you are to be a follower of Christ and not the church. You have a tone of persecution, but you also have a spirit of blindness. There is something in your life that needs to be delivered by the power of Jesus himself. No one on this web site can do anything but pray for you. You need to absorb the Bible, not just read it. If you read you will find the word Christian in the new testament as it was intended. If you do not absorb and ask for God to open your eyes to see him, and find salvation, you will be devoured. Not by people but by satan. The true chuch has nothing to do with it. I will keep you in my prayers for the deliverence you need.
 
Sophia:
Get out of the occult while you still have a chance!
 
Child of God, we are living in the changeover now. The religions have been infiltrated. Small change after small change inside the religious groups, each being accepted by the people attending those churches. No Christian is attacked who joins with the new ways of thinking. Only those people who resist the change amd stage a confrontation are attacked.

If things go on as they plan, you will be able to say you believe in Jesus and yet you will be a New Ager, working against everything Christianity stood for.

How many people today remember what the Catholic church was like prior to Vatican II. How many Reform Jews have experienced what living like an Orthodox Jew means. How many Protestants go to services for the company of the community?

None are bad people, just unaware people. And the more unaware people are, the less they will react to the changes.
 
Sophia, where do you get the moral code you live by?
 
Why don't you blind, self-assured people listen to what Sophia is saying instead of just trying to criticize her!
You smugly think you can't be blind because you are a "Christian". I tell you, you are as blind as the Pharisees ever were. Remember what Jesus says he will do to the self-assured Church of the Laodicians:

Rev Chap 3:
3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


Don't you know, that Loadician Christians are an offence not only to people, but to God. The commited lovers and doers of evil (who are often posing as followers of Christ) do indeed hate Christ, (that is what Christ taught and stood for) but many people just don't know how to recognize Christ because the Laodician Christians are lovers of Mammon. They are the same kind of people Jesus threw out of the temple saying: "You have made the house of prayer into a den of thieves."

Here's a news flash for you:
Most animosity toward Christians that I am seeing on the blogs is not becuase of Jesus.
The greatest thing people detest is the so-called "Christian Right" which they are calling the Christian Reich", and their support of the neo-fascist Bush Administration. What depraved blindness to claim Christ and support a man who is a member of a Satanic secret cult (Order of the Skull & Bones - just Google it if you need a clue) at the same time.

See, many people are coming to hate Christians because they too are decieved that George W. Bush is one! It is George W. Bush, not Jesus, that they hate - unless they have come to think GWB actually does represent Jesus. Now there would be blasphemy.
 
Well, Sophia you indeed have a follower who reads these comments. Birds of a feather and all that.
 
Tronicus, If you recall from the March “Solana Not Standing Still” comments, you’ll notice where we had already pointed out that George Bush is an initiate of Skull and Bones. I didn’t intend to flatter him when I made that post, so don’t misunderstand what is being said here. Also, please note that Sophia is encourages initiation—the same initiation which the Skull and Bonesman advocate.
RichInMedford
 
Tronicus:
I do not say she is blind to feel superior what so ever. Sometimes you need to think. If you read she does have some truth. Infact a lot. And I respect her 100%. I just sence something is wrong. I believe there is something trying to attack her spiritually. Now what am I supose to do? Keep Quiet? No! I am a Christian with a heart. I do not say this to humilliate her at all. I am praying for her. I hope Jesus softens her heart. And yours too. I want to see her being able to enjoy all that Christ can give her. I know absolutely nothing about her. Its just what came to me when I read her comment to me. I cannot pinpoint exactly what it is, but she is under attack. Maybe you should open your mouth and pray for her as well. The last time you responded to something you said blessed are the peace makers. Well how about it. Pray for her! Pray for her to find the peace she needs. I love reading her comments, and I hope she sticks around.
And to Sophia directly: if I have offended you in anyway, I deeply apologise. But I am still praying for you.
 
Child of God, I appreciate the support. I don't know what gave you the impression that I have a hard heart. Things often appear differently over computer telecom than they really are.

As for the occult, mathematics is occult. The Bible is occult. The craft of providing this blog service is occult. The occult is only negative when the ends it serves are negative.

A knife can be used to whittle a piece of art. It can also be used to pierce someone to the heart. The knife is an instrument that can be used for both positive and negative ends.

Much of the Bible was written by people with a high level of education. It is received by people with such knowledge in a positive light. Others use it as an excuse to practice theft, murder, and destruction.

Anon 5:30, my moral code is to do good. That doesn't always appeal to people. Where do I derive such a code? I'm inspired by all of the people who do bad to do differently. They serve as an example of what to avoid.

Rich, our initiation is far different from that of the bonesters. All organizations perform initiations. The Church has a variety of initiatory practices. Baptism is a form of initiation. The laying on of hands is another form.
 
Sophia,
I've read so many new age versions of initiation that place lucifer at the center. From what you say here, I'm interpreting that you believe yours to be much different. Sophia, even though we disagree a lot, I really do like you and enjoy our little debates.
RichInMedford
 
Sophia, in other words you base your moral code on whatever you want it to be. Wasn't it Crowley the Satanist who wrote, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." That was his moral code. He rationalized his position also.

It is very hard to trust someone whose moral code is so flexible, and you do love to play with words. You write things which give one impression while they mean something else. Your style might be called "Catch Me If You Can."
 
Anon 5:26, if you ever come to know good and evil, you will perceive your own nakedness. This we can be sure of.

Rich, if you've read about any initiation, then it's not secret. If it's not secret, it's not occult. If it's not occult, it's probably not truly "New Age."

In order to perform an effective baptism, one must not only know the pearls of wisdom, one must also know how to apply them. The reason we keep this secret is so that charlatan theologians can't try to imitate our practice. Also, charlatans can use knowledge of the pearls to ensnare our initiates.

To a charlatan theologian, our divine principal is called Lucifer. To us, it is Sophia.
 
Sophia…

Counterpoint:

Daniel 2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets...

Luke 8:17: For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

Theosophy and many other writings are occult and not secret. Masons profess to be the keepers of the secrets. The truth is, it’s not a secret.

RichInMedford
 
Sophia dear, what you are saying after all the word games is that New Age is occult and secretive. It's a wonder that you can keep all of the New Age secrets in your brain and nothing is written down. If it's written down, these days it isn't secretive any more.

With such a moveable moral code on which to base your actions, I'm sure you will never find yourself naked. There will always be some weeds around to cover you.
 
Sophia wrote:
Anon 5:26, if you ever come to know good and evil, you will perceive your own nakedness. This we can be sure of.

Response, I'm not tempted by the religions of the snake who say man is part of the animal world. The knowledge of good and evil does not come from the world of nature but from God.
 
Anon 2:51, yes, you are correct in asserting that a mortal soul receives knowledge of good and evil from the divine. Since you have yet to receive such knowledge, I recommend that you refrain from judging others.

Rich, you're quotes about the hidden becoming revealed actually supports the occult. Those who cannot perceive the hidden will eventually gain the capacity to do so.

I've pointed out the need for security. If you cannot appreciate such a need, perhaps it is because you have never had a friend assassinated by the hand of a Christ-loving Nazi. That's the kind of absolute moral code that opposes us: theft, murder, and destruction.

If you are so opposed to secrets, why don't you ask the White House to reveal all of the secrets that they keep. Is it okay for hellish governments to keep secrets, but not for heavenly governments? Is it okay for profit oriented organizations to keep secrets, but not non-profits?

While you are at it, why don't you tell us about those things that you do behind closed doors. When you pray, is it in secret? Or do you go to the temple to pray out loud, like the hypocrites?

Pardon my harsh tone, but you don't seem to be getting the point.
 
Sophia wrote:
Anon 2:51, yes, you are correct in asserting that a mortal soul receives knowledge of good and evil from the divine. Since you have yet to receive such knowledge, I recommend that you refrain from judging others.

Response: For some very good reasons I would rather take Bette Middler as Divine (aka The Divine Bette Midler, a singer) than the one you are pushing. I am truly amused that you consider yourself some sort of psychic who knows my soul.

As for secrets, the secret ingredient in Coca Cola is a better secret than your gnostic ideas that have shared over and over by writers of gobbledegook.
 
Sophia wrote:
Pardon my harsh tone, but you don't seem to be getting the point.

Response: Sophia, we get your point and aren't being snared by your seductive little comments that promise to reveal secrets if we only follow you. You, as a representative of your beliefs, are not all that alluring. Now go stamp your feet like Rumplestilskin.
 
To Sophia,

Sophia, the scripture I cited doesn’t support that God is directing people to the path of the occult. The Lord says otherwise: Isaiah 8:19: And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God?

The occult typically has believed that no-one other the initiates could understand the secret doctrine. What a surprise Constance Cumbey was to them. The scripture I cited points out that it is God who dispenses knowledge.

Regarding “Christ loving Nazis,” we’ve already covered that ground and you response was essentially: that’s them, not us. I don’t intend to rehash it. I recently posted a link to testimony by Corrie Ten t Boom (see post 10:31 pm ). She is one of those “Christ loving Nazis to whom you refer. She was interned in a concentration camp for hiding Jews. Following her ordeal, did she say “Let’s keep things secret from here on?” Rather, she become more bold and preached in parts of the world where she may well have encountered the same persecution she experienced in Germany.

Did Jesus say to the apostles, “this knowledge is secret for you to discreetly dispense.” Or “Beware and keep things secret, people may wish to harm you” No, he instructed us that people would kill us because of our testimony. Jesus instructed the apostles to “Go unto all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.” When starting the church, the apostles preached the gospel boldly despite being beaten, forbidden to speak, and some even killed. One can read of this in Acts 4 and 5. How did the apostles act? Acts 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

Sophia, I remain unconvinced that the occult is as you attempt to portray. Unless you can give me compelling reason to believe otherwise, I think that the Sophia is merely Lucifer’s drag persona.

RichInMedford
 
Rich, yes, Christ instructed the apostles to preach. But it wasn't the same thing that the Apostolic Fathers taught as Gospel. Those who preached what Christ instructed to preach have been duly martyred by those who support your position.

The Gospel that you learned is not the Gospel of Christ. You learned the gospel of idolatry.

Quote Isaiah all you like, it doesn't make you any more enlightened. Nor does it mean that the craft you practice is any purer than the craft condemned.
 
Sophia,

Your religion is not right for me, but I completely support your right to worship freely and publicly state your beliefs. I expect the same in return.

RichInMedford
 
Sophia: By the way I am still praying for you more than ever. Little did I know how accurate the occult comment was. Basically it was guided by the Holy Spirit. I mentioned for you to take the Bible litterally. I have as a christian. There is not one day I have regretted it, even though I am persecuted for it continuosly. I also mentioned to you at some point you have to realise that the new testament is about following Christ. Notice I did not state that in past tense. Its not about followng any other person or group. You don't follow the church! The best thing you could do for yourself is to shut yourself into a room and read. Not think about persecution, church, theology and Ive probably just touched the surface of things to put aside. The best thing you could do is to pray for Jesus to reveal himself through his word. I get the impression that you have a hard time as excepting Jesus as Lord. I already saw a comment that you deny the trinity. It makes me sad for sure. The Jehova's also deny it, and thats a sign of cult. But the reality is it leads to occult worship. Satan believes in Jesus. Just because you know about religions and the Bible, does not mean you belong to Jesus Christ, the Messiah. Follow Jesus. Forget all this other stuff that can be tied all up into religion somehow. If you don't have Jesus in your heart, you dont have Him at all. My fear is that you have the knowledge but are unable to come to the truth. I will still pray for you!
 
I am thankful for all of the Christians who share their wisdom on this site. (Even when your faith is challenged, you stand firm).

I am also thankful for the Trinity:
God the Father (the Creator who spoke all things into existence)
God the Son (our Savior & Redeemer who was obedient to God unto death)
God the Holy Spirit (our Empowerer)
God is beautiful and He is everything we need.

Keep sharing the faith. I believe that the seed sown on this site will not come back void.
 
Rich,

Many apologies that you feel that your rights have been infringed. I didn't intend to be opressive, merely cynical.

Child o' God,

Thanks for the support.

You've missed the point on the nature of the occult. One does not worship that which is hidden. It is not a form of worship. Keeping people safe from attack is not a form of worship.

In fact, we do more to reveal the occult aspects of the Trinitarian tradition than we do to maintain our own secrecy. Before revealing the truth of the Trinity, one must establish a security organization.

The Jesus of the Trinity is not Jesus of Nazareth. It is not we who need to be saved by Christ. It is Jesus who needs to be saved from those who profess to worship divinity in his name, while practicing a form of enforced ignorance.
 
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

1 John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Philippians 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and those on earth, and of those under the earth (hell), and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

It sounds as everyone will be worshiping Jesus Christ the Lord at the end of time regardless of what their beliefs are (like it or not) I choose to worship him now.

What a sobering day it will be for those who rejected the truth; when they come face to face with the Lord.
 
Sofia: When are you going to read the Bible for its literal interperatation? I am not saying this to downgrade you whatsoever. But the Bible does have a very clear history. People who read it and except it for fact, not stories, know the history past and future. Maybe people who read it for its literal interperatation I should say. God is not a fictionalized character. Nor is Jesus the nazarine, King of the Jews, fictional. It is so accurate that even our year is listed in A.D. wich means in the year of our Lord in latin. Its time to read and study the book of books. You dont need a books to explain the book. But the book(the Bible) does explain all other books. I know that you said you are heavily involved in education, but Ive got a challenge for you. You must take considerable amount of time studying a lot of subjects. It also seems that your curiosity about the Bible has been on a steady climb, or you would not be here at this website, knowing how many Christians participate here. I seriously think that if you read the new testament, and discovered what it meant to be a follower of Christ, that you personally would not be ashamed to call yourself a Christian. No matter what the image is. I hope you take me up on the offer of seriously diving into your Bible at full speed. You seem to live for knowledge and truth it seems, and you dont like lines of bull. How about becoming a Bible scholar? The Bible is knowledge and truth. It is the foundation of what is truth and good and evil in our society today and forever will be whether people like it or not. It will not pass away. I'm sorry about your belief on the trinity. Maybe if you dive in to the Bible for the full knowledge of the truth you will see why it bothers me so much. At this point I don't see the point in explaining it to you because you do have your own beliefs. I'm not going to try to twist your arm. However.. the knowledge that you have about the trinity is not based on the full understanding of the new testament. For a start look up the name Immanuel which is listed in Matt. 1:23. It has a specific meaning. It is the same in every translation. Then look at John 20:28, the one people call doubting thomas calls Jesus something. It is also in every translation. I hope this starts more interest for you to dive into God's word and not man's words. I sense anger and resentment from you towards Christians in general. I hope you understand that there are Christians on this web site who are truly concerened for you. I understand that you have seen and had bad experiences in the past. But I hope you will at least except that there are followers of Christ in this world, that do call themselves Christians, that could possibly be the best friends that you just might ever hope to have.
 
Sophia,

Not to worry, I didn't interpret your post as your attempt to infringe on my rights. I was trying to make the point that Christians do not wish to oppress your freedoms. All the Christians I know love freedom and fully support others' right to worship as they please.

RichInMedford
 
Anon 7:41,

May you eventually sober up.

Child o' God,

Sacred texts are not to be taken literally. They were not written for literal interpretation. They should not be misconstrued as such.

The story of the Fall, for example, is an epitome of a larger story. The objects of Adam, Eve, and the Garden are symbolical representations of entities that are greater than the literal interpretation.

Many of the NT texts were addressed to a group of people who no longer exist. You read them as if they are addressed to you.

If you follow the shadow of Christ as presented in the fragments of the early Church (known as the New Testament), you will follow that which is antithetical to the real Christ.

The Gospels contain pointers to a larger body of knowledge. If you truly "believe in" the Gospels, you will follow those pointers. If you fail to follow those pointers, you will continue to be deceived by the corruptions of the fourth century.

Rich,

Thanks for the clarification.
 
Sofia: I have to dissagree about taking the Bible litterally. All the prophecy that was fullfilled in Jesus Christ himself is unbelievable. Prophecy validates the Bible to sceptics. You are one. You read other books that validate your opinion. You look for what is comfortable and what you want to be true. Its too bad. The Bible makes everyone feel uncomfortable. It reveals the need for a saviour, because we can not acheave goodnes no matter who knows what or what you do. You might be able to obtain goodness in mans eyes but not God's. We are all born in sin. You and me. I am not a product of evolution or chance. I dont know what cult you belong to, but it almost sounds like christian science or mormonism. You might not be either, but there are simillarities. How much longer do you think before the battle of Gog-maggog takes place from Ezekial Ch. 38-39? The political and military set up is now in place. How can the Bible not be taken litterally? It tells of so many things that have taken place, and things that are about to happen. There is no cards involved, no secret spirits, no psychics invoved in the Bible. Its written down plain for everyone to see. Why do you value mans achievements more than God? Man's achievments have lead to more disasters. Look what Al-qaeda is doing with technology. Its abuse plain and simple. Is your faith going to bring you to heaven when you die? Do you have absolute peace and certainty where you will go? There is a choice to be made and time is extremely short. There is only 2 places to go, heaven or hell. Making no decision is a choice to go to hell to put it bluntly. You have to except Jesus as the way for heaven to be an option to you. You probably think why is this backwoods redneck with dyslexia being so narrow minded about how you choose to get to heaven? After all God is a God of love right? Yes he is but for how long. Sophia, I do not belong to a religion, I belong to Jesus. That is how I know I am going to heaven. Through Jesus Christ alone. Plain and simple. I am an idiot. What could I possibly do to earn my way there or achieve my right to get in? God gives everyone a chance to get there. But its only through Jesus. You either accept or regect. Man's achievements are now causing the imminent destuction of the world. The whole world. There will be no escape anywhere on earth. What will your religion do for you? Its funny how you say Adam and Eve were not real. There is a family tree that leads back to him. Infact it has caused the whole middle east to go through termoil, because one side argues that they deserve the blessings of Abraham when the son Isaac recieved it. I do not look at every word of the Bible as applying to me, however I do know that the Bible is true. Sophia you don't have much time!
 
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
 
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
 
I have not looked at this particular column in some time and find that some spammers have invaded the comment section. I am erasing the spam so people may read the many, many legitimate comments. Thank you!

Constance
 
I have great respect for you Constance Cumbey as you were partly responsible for me coming out of the New Age religion. I read your wonderful book, "THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF THE RAINBOW" and was alerted. I loved the Jesus of the Bible but I avoided the Bible after the first three readings (in entirety) because I saw suffering as an integral part of being a Christian, but New Age appeared to be wholly benevolent and appeared to love Jesus.

Jesus was my guru but over time I came to see that the New Age was only about control and me me. Hard as I tried (every minute of every waking hour) I couldn't make it work as it promised. I saw that it was satanic and ran to the nearest church in fear and trembling and found the true Jesus who was very God; how I love Him.
"
I have ordered a new book "Forbidden Secrets of the Labyrinth" which takes us back to the Garden of Eden to see when the apostate thinking started. Apparently the writer is thought of as a genius. I wonder if you have heard of it and if so, if you might peruse it and give your thoughts about it. I found the conversation about it on the Hagmannandhagmann radio program, which is new to me and was captivated.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Him. Bless you
 
Post a Comment

Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]



Links to this post:

Create a Link



<< Home

This page is powered by Blogger. Isn't yours?

Subscribe to Posts [Atom]