Friday, June 01, 2012
A very important movie - THE GREATER GLORY
Trailer provided by Video Detective
I just came back from watching this movie on its first day of viewing in the USA. It is about the Cristero War in Mexico, the response to the government ordered persecutions of Christians starting with Catholics. The film is disturbing, but it understates the case. It looked like it had a happy ending when US Ambassador Dwight Morrow "negotiated a peace" with the Mexican government that would insure religious freedom. It ends with a proclamation that in 1929 the Church bells were able to ring again. What really happened and you can read an excellent account of it in MEXICAN MARTYRDOM was that when Catholics resurfaced from underground and resumed public worship, they were identified and then the persecutions began again with even greater vigor. Other inaccuracies included that the persecution started with Mexican President Calles. In reality, it began with Obregon but was continued and enlarged under Calles. Cardenas was not exactly the saint that Cameron Townsend and Wycliffe Bible Translators sometimes make him out to be. He was in on the persecution too, albeit at more subtle but still dangerous levels.
THE GREATER GLORY movies probably a good pre-vision of what could well happen in the prophesied Great Tribulation.
Go see it!
Constance
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
140 comments:
Thank you for sharing this video / preview, Constance.
How refreshing to know that, here in the 21st century, Hollywood would actually consider spending money to make a movie with the fight for religious freedom as its theme.
It looks like a solid cast: Andy Garcia, Eva Longoria and Peter O'Toole.
It is particularly good to see this movie was done, because the general story we always hear is about Christians persecuting people in the Middle Ages or whatever. On the pagan egroups, when the subject of pagan persecution of Christians was brought up it started an argument, and excuses like that the Romans weren't typical pagans. They were only non typical in being better organized and more successful. Non Latin populations in Europe in the Roman empire engaged in persecution of Christians and unrelated groups have persecuted Christians.
Basically, the economic and power issues of some people connected with false worship, dislike of disruption of tradition, and the demons working through their worshippers were the main drivers in all this.
Persecution of Christians goes on today in many places. And I don't mean just irritating things in the workplace or discrimination but violence.
The link below presents an in-depth commentary on the CRISTEROS.
http://catholicism.org/valor-betrayal-cristeros.html
Dear Constance,
Thank you for posting the link to the videos preview for The Greater Glory.
It is to be recalled that Javier Solana's grandfather Salvador de Madariaga approved and spiritedly defended the persecution and/or slaughter of the Cristeros in Mexico under Plutarco Elias Calles.
I'd like to know more about the context of all this. As a Christian I disapprove of violence, but sometimes it is possible to understand why it happens. Did the Roman Catholic church in Mexico need its wings clipping, albeit in a peaceful manner? Had there been a bloody Inquisition there? (It ran in Spain, for long Mexico's overlord, until Napoleon.) Did it own huge tracts of land and charge peasants heavily to work it, and/or levy tithes? Did its hierarchy cozy up to the powerful and the wealthy and, in practice, prefer their interests to those of the majority of the people?
I ask these question based on the European experience where the Roman Catholic church was highly political. I don't know the answers in the New World and am prepared to be pleasantly surprised. I don't want to polarize the debate into communism vs clericalism; I'm simply seeking a context, which I've not yet found.
Lots of intrigue in the Vatican these days:
http://www.newswithviews.com/Horn/thomas184.htm
Looking forward to some comments from the Catholic bloggers here.
Alfred
as for needing their wings trimmed, I don't think RC abusiveness was the cause, though no doubt such occurred and was an excuse and something the devil used to turn some against Christianity in general.
"Mexican Jacobins, supported by Calles's central government, went beyond mere anticlericalism and engaged in secular antireligious campaigns to eradicate what they called "superstition" and "fanaticism", including desecration of religious objects, persecution of the clergy and anticlerical legislation.[15]
Calles applied the anti-clerical laws stringently throughout the country and added his own anti-clerical legislation. In June 1926 he signed the "Law for Reforming the Penal Code", known unofficially as the "Calles Law". This provided specific penalties for priests and individuals who violated the provisions of the 1917 Constitution. For instance, wearing clerical garb in public (i.e., outside Church buildings) earned a fine of 500 pesos (approximately $250 US at the time); a priest who criticized the government could be imprisoned for five years.[21] Some states enacted oppressive measures. Chihuahua enacted a law permitting only a single priest to serve the entire Catholic congregation of the state.[22] To help enforce the law, Calles seized church property, expelled all foreign priests, and closed the monasteries, convents and religious schools.[23]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristero_War#Background_to_rebellion
These measures are not designed to limit abuses but eradicate altogether.
Christine - Thank you for that information, but it is all about the persecution rather than the attitudes and behavior of the Catholic church in Mexico before the persecution happened. I asked specific questions and I'd be glad if you or anybody else could help answer them. Of course priests should be permitted to walk around freely wearing their garb.
Anonymous at 10:47 a.m. see below.
MASONRY IN MEXICAN POLITICS AND RELIGION
http://tinyurl.com/82oqxpp
THE CONCEPT OF SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://tinyurl.com/6nasnvl
Anonymous said...
"Lots of intrigue in the Vatican these days:
Looking forward to some comments from the Catholic bloggers here"
Alfred, the links below present food for thought.
http://tinyurl.com/83el6vr
http://tinyurl.com/6s44o66
http://tinyurl.com/7qmr8rp
http://larouchepac.com/node/21618
http://tinyurl.com/7eyupyw
Cathy,
The first of those two URLs is about freemasonry (not Catholicism) in Mexico. The second does't mention the country at all and comes out with propaganda like this:
"the [Catholic] Church has never taught that she (or the State) may use the power of the State to coerce religious belief. Johnston states that after Vatican II, "Henceforth the Church does not impose but proposes the truth; she will not rely on the coercive machinery of the state." Frankly, this is a disturbing caricature of the Church's teaching before Vatican II..."
The shockingly unjust trials and executions of Walpurga Hausmannin, Merga Bien and the Pappenheimer family at the hands of the Inquisition can all be found online, to name three of many many thousands.
JD, I'm sad for your deception on the last thread. Ido not know whether Dorothy is a practising kabbalist or not but to pretend that is what others were stating abou her is simply not true!
Dorothy does however support Jewish study of kabbalah, shown by her past attacks on fellow posters because of their exposing it. This is the problem. The Kabbalah is evil no matter who studies it, whether zohar or not, to pretend otherwise is a dangerous lie.
Christine, kabbalistic origins are Babylonian, and ultimately from the lie told by Satan the serpent in the Garden of Eden! This does not necessarily mean the same as stating that today's zohar for example was already compiled then, but that the evil ideas which fill it originate in the lie told by the Devil in the Garden of Eden via Ancient Babylon!
To attack Paul as being obnoxious or unkind is a bit rich considering how abrasive, rude, unloving and vicious were many of Dorothy's comments in times past.
Furthermore, it should be noted the the Greatest Commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength: this is the FIRST commandment!
The second commandment to love your neighbor as yourself is conditional to the first. You must obey God's commandments and rebuke and expose darkness wherever found! Please God rather than men.
One more thing Christine, Jesus Christ's words, which you refuse to heed, in Matthew 23: 9 let's se what the well known theologian, Barnes' in his Notes on the Bible has to say, seeing as you've ignored by reasoning previously:
"And call no man your Father ... - This does not, of course, forbid us to apply the term to our real father. Religion requires all proper honor to be shown to Him, Exodus 20:12; Matthew 15:4; Ephesians 6:1-3. But the word "father" also denotes "authority, eminence, superiority, a right to command, and a claim to particular respect." In this sense it is used here. In this sense it belongs eminently to God, and it is not right to give it to people. Christian brethren are equal. Only God has supreme authority. He only has a right to give laws; to declare doctrines that shall bind the conscience; to punish disobedience. The Jewish teachers affected that title (just like EO or Greek Orth., & RC so-called priests do today) because they seem to have supposed that a teacher formed the man, or gave him real life, and sought, therefore, to be called father. Christ taught them that the source of all life and truth was God, and they ought not to seek or receive a title which properly belongs to him."
The Apostle Paul does not refute, modify or contradict this in I Cor 4:15. Why? Because Paul does not tell or advise or encourage anyone to call him father, he merely makes the point that he, Paul, has been like a father to them: For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel (not by baptism btw but through the Gospel!).
Stop twisting Holy Scripture to suit your cause. Repent!
Respond all you like, I only hope that readers realise to obey God and His Words in Holy Scripture rather than men, and that all be like the Berean Greeks, testing all spirits and seeking out the truth diligently through the Holy Bible.
Frank.
Frank, it sounds like you are the one 'twisting Holy Scripture to suit YOUR cause' - and that maybe YOU are the one who needs to 'repent'!!!
You are not the judge and jury of everyone on this blog. Take a long look in the mirror.
Anonymous said...
Cathy,
"The first of those two URLs is about freemasonry (not Catholicism) in Mexico. The second does't mention the country at all and comes out with propaganda..."
Anonymous, I assume you have access to historical material regarding the attitudes and behavior of the Catholic Church in pre-revolutionary Mexico which asserts that the Catholic Church was responsible for the bloody attacks on the Church during the Mexican Revolution. Can you provide these historical sources or are you just creating your own version of reality? Thanks, Cathy
The very fact that anyone would spend so much valuable time OBSESSED with attacking the Catholic Church (or any other church for that matter) speaks VOLUMES about that person...and not in a good way!!!
Anyway, don't let us stop you. Just enjoy 'revealing' more and more about yourself...
The Catholic Church is the world's largest Christian church, with more than one billion members...led by an unbroken line of Popes from St. Peter on.
We must be doing something right.
Anon 2:57 PM.
The Lord Jesus Christ is my shepherd, I obey His Words.
I ask rhetorically, is the pope yours? Whose voice do you listen to?
Frank
Cathy wrote: "Anonymous, I assume you have access to historical material regarding the attitudes and behavior of the Catholic Church in pre-revolutionary Mexico which asserts that the Catholic Church was responsible for the bloody attacks on the Church during the Mexican Revolution. Can you provide these historical sources or are you just creating your own version of reality?"
There's something odd going on here. I ask questions about Mexican history, nobody answers them and I get told I'm creating my own version of reality. I asked those questions in the hope that someone better informed than me might do me the favor of answering them. That hasn't happened so I'll go do the reading myself. If I learn that the Catholic church did not behave in Central America as it had in Europe then I shall be glad. On this subject, goodbye.
Hi Anon 3:51 PM, please realize you sre not being attacked by Christians but those who pretend to be but are really haters of it, when you realize this their feiry darts will not hurt so much. Those that work for the Unholy See of the VATICAN and its RC Heresies. May God be with you and bless you greatly in Jesus Christ's Holy Name.
Catholic Mysticism and the Emerging Church Reexamined
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfI9H1ZajLs
The Biblical Uncovering of the Pope and the Papacy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al-Npc-wKBc&feature=relmfu
The Pope Denounces True Christians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfIPnw1KS0A&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com
/watch?v=OfI9H1ZajLs
/watch?v=al-Npc-wKBc&feature=relmfu
/watch?v=gfIPnw1KS0A&feature=relmfu
Frank
To Frank @ 2:46 PM:
Jesus Christ is the HEAD of the Catholic Church. The Pope is merely the 'Vicar of Christ' - an administrative deputy here on earth.
This is the way Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ HIMSELF set it up when He created the Catholic Church and made Peter the first Pope (the first in a long UNBROKEN line of Popes)...before He was crucified and died for all of our sins.
So, if YOU have a problem with that, Frank...then I suggest that you take that up with HIM!!!
There are those who are against Dave Hunt and his work. Let it be known that those that pretend to be against the NAM but are against Dave Hunt have a sinister RC agenda.
N'est pas?
Frank
Correction: My 4:21 PM comment should have been addressed to Frank at 3:46 PM.
Anonymous, I posted this link in an earlier entry on this page. The article is detailed and gives the historical background on the situation in Mexico during the Revolution. And, the first few paragraphs identify the causes of the Revolution. Maybe you missed it? Cathy
http://catholicism.org/valor-betrayal-cristeros.html
Frank, when are we going to discuss YOUR 'sinister' agenda?
Yawn 4:21 PM, Peter was not the first pope Constantine was! Peter was an eldere of Antioch not Rome. There is not any Biblical evidence to suggest Peter ever even set foot in Rome.
The so called pope is not Christ's vicar (vicar means in place of , as in vicarious) on Earth, the Holy Spirit is!
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/popevicarofchrist.html
I suggest you read the Holy Bible and you take that up with Him!
To Anonymous @ 4:32 PM:
Re: "Peter was not the first pope Constantine was!"
__________________________________
LOL!!!
Ignoring what is DOCUMENTED in the HISTORY books only makes you (and other misinformed anti-Catholics like you) sound totally IGNORANT!!!
Please do your 'homework' before posting here. It may just help keep you from being laughed off this blog!!!
Anon 4:27 PM, why are you being such a Christian basher? I ask this rhetorically of course, for the reason is a spiritual one.
Anyone who stands for the truth here is called a cathoolic basher. Nonsense! THere are those few who bash catholics, there are others who expose the heresies and wickednesses in the Romish 'church', and rebuke and expose the vipers who slitheringly hiss promoition of its lies.
As for me I shall serve the Lord my God Jesus Christ, and I shall earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints
Frank
Anon 4:46 PM, do yours and stop listening to the propaganda of the Harlot that is Romanism!
Anti-Catholic? The Romish Harlot may steal the title Catholic but she is far from it! I am anti-lies and anti-harlotry but not against the poor folk lost there in. However, I will rebuke vipers like you when needed!
Frank
The COMPLETE list of Popes of the Catholic Church - beginning with St. Peter (32-67 AD) to Benedict XVI (2005 to the present)...
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm
Jesus KNOWS that I am no 'viper' (HE KNOWS MY HEART AND MY SOUL)...and I don't have to defend myself to YOU or anyone else on this blog.
I am not on trial here...so please go find another blog where they actually welcome hateful anti-Catholics like yourself!!!
I put it to you that that's an untrustworthy Jesuitical site. I'd rather beleive the evidence held within the Bible, as I've already indicated, and of works written around the time and soon thereafter as long as they do not contradict what the Holy Scripture states!
The Biblical Uncovering of the Pope and Papacy - Update
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p792j_scWyw
/watch?v=p792j_scWyw
THE POPE IS ANTICHRIST!
Frank
Anon 5:00 PM , do not put me on trial. I shall contend earnestly for the faith of Biblical based Christianity, shall expose that which is vile and Antichrist such as the title Pope and that so- called pope's blasphemies. I shall wipe the dust of my feet when ready, not when you or others try and chase me out. Deal with it.
I hope you watch the videos I've posted, research them and believe and be saved! And if not you, that others visiting this site are made aware of the Romish dangers that lurk herein as a temptress ready to devour the souls of men.
Frank.
To Frank @ 5:00 PM:
Re: "THE POPE IS ANTICHRIST!"
___________________________________
Well, Constance Cumbey - who runs this blog - doesn't seem to think so...which proves that you are on the wrong blog, Frank.
Keep on making fool of yourself though. I'm enjoying the show! Wait - I'll go get some popcorn...
Ahhhh, I'm already SAVED, Frank.
(Munch, munch...I'm enjoying my popcorn.)
To Frank @ 5:07 PM:
Re: "Anon 5:00 PM , do not put me on trial."
__________________________________
???????
Frank, you may be getting a little confused. Those were my words to you: "I am not on trial here."
Maybe your blood sugar level is low and you just need to go get someting to eat.
Hurry, I'll wait...
The devil is very powerful.
The devil himself doesn't fool around
with peons. He has a legion of demons
for that.
He goes straight for the LEADERSHIP of
of all the denominations; beginning
with the largest and working down from there.
You Roman Catholics have no idea what's going
on at the top of the organization. Neither do
the people in the pews of the other denominations.
But when the people in the pews say that their
denomination is the only correct one,
that's just hubris, the original sin.
I'm a Methodist, I suppose, because I attend a Methodist church. But I don't expect the Methodist
denomination to save, redeem, or consecrate me.
Only God the Father, Jesus his son and the Holy
Ghost can and will do that.
Question: When a person gets baptized, is it into a denomination or is it into the body of Christ ?
Paul:
You, of all people - who have been posting on this blog for a very long time, should know better.
Constance is always reminding us that Satan is 'an equal opportunity offender'...and he doesn't discriminate against Protestant vs Catholic.
So, for you (and others like you) to constantly single out the Catholic Church is just plan WRONG!!!
There you go again,
I also singled out my own denomination !!
My goodness, what a hothouse flower you are.
Can the hand say to the foot,"I don't need you"?
Can the ear say to the eye, " I don't need you"?
There is one body but many members.
Jesus told his apostles and disciples to go into
the world and make DISCIPLES of all peoples.
He didn't mention anything about the various
"family" names" ( denominations ) of churches.
No "successor" was ever named to any of the
Apostles. The Apostles were the only Apostles,
and they chose bishops, who chose leaders and
elders and preachers and teachers.
"When a person gets baptized, is it into a denomination or is it into the body of Christ ?"
That's the right question. Never join a denomination that requires somebody who was knowingly baptized before to undergo it again as a precondition.
You can be baptized in God's eyes only once. Read his scriptures and decide for yourself when that was.
Well, since we Catholics are baptized into the body of Christ as infants...once is definitely enough for us!!!
To Anonymous @ 6:31 PM:
Seriously - here is your answer:
http://catholicexchange.com/do-converts-have-to-be-rebaptized/
I used to think that people insist on being
anonymous because they are afraid; afraid of
the New World Order coming and hauling them away. It's really not an unreasonable fear to have, I suppose; especially if one doesn't really have any faith in God as a protector.
But when I look at the confusion that is sown here on the blog every time an irate, indignant person comments as "anonymous", I've come to the conclusion that the posters here who post as anonymous are deliberately sowing confusion. Freemasons ?? Jesuits ? Wiccan??
I don't know.
Which anonymous are you ?
Anonymous A? or B? or C? or D? or F ?
Are you the angry angry Catholic anonymous or are you the Kabbalah loving anonymous ?
Who knows ?
Maybe you could call yourself anonymous 1 or anonymous 2, just for clarity, but then that might bring clarity and what you want is confusion.
Hey, the thing is, EVERYBODY on this website is essentially anonymous. Only the blog Administrator knows who's who.
So it stands to reason that it's not so much a fear of being identified, as it is a desire to confuse everyone
here, and plus it's fun to shoot at people from the weeds. isn't it ?
Snakes in the grass.
Oh, Paul - 'flattery' will get you nowhere. You never stop trying to bully and intimidate others, do you? Even though you and I have been communicating off and on for the past 6 years (and you have even confused me with Dorothy).
I count at least a half a dozen regulars (who do use their names) who post on this blog as close, dear friends outside of this blog...so, I really don't feel that I have to explain myself to YOU.
Nice try, Paul. Although, when you have to stoop to insults, that means you're running out of valid arguments in which to make your anti-Catholic case.
(How do the others know that you're really 'Paul'?)
As someone who often reads this blog (but rarely comments), I would just like to make the following observation.
It seems to me that the Catholics are the least angry, but the Catholic bashers (who profess to be Christians) have a very passive aggressive anger, and are also the most verbally abusive individuals on this blog.
You must not have read my comment.
I was saying, very clearly if you read it,
that I believe that the majority of Roman
Catholics are sincere saved Christians,
but that they are not privy to what their
leaders are doing.
Why do you insist that I'm a Catholic basher ?
I love my brothers and sisters in the Roman Catholic
Church.
I'm not so sure about the Vatican; an unbelievably
wealthy heirarchy of often secretive people.
My denomination is also lead bty people I don't know.
Why do you, ( anonymous A? ), follow the traditions
of men and not the Commandments of God ?
To Protestants on this blog who believe the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, the excerpt below got my attention and should get yours as well. In fact, the declaration regarding Protestantism in this excerpt from an article on Rich Peterson's Blog isn't flattering to PROTESTANTISM. Can any of the Protestant Catholic bashers explain why Protestants should be proud of the fact that Protestantism is perceived to be an agent of secularization?
".....Cordoba conference on religious freedom, the Alliance indicated it is watching to see which will win out: the Protestantisation of religion or Islamisation of Christianity? For they conclude that Protestantization of religion will let secularization prevail while Islamization of Christianity will create a totally new agenda."
http://tinyurl.com/6vhdomt
Paul:
Those of us, who are traditional devout Catholics, DO follow the commandments of God. Why would you assume otherwise?
So far, Pope Benedict XVI has shown (by his ACTIONS) to be a good man. Now, there may be a Pope, one day in the future, that we may need to be concerned about. Only time will tell.
Thanks, Cathy for calling our attention to this link.
information about RC behavior that may have brought the persecution on - I don't have any and am not sure where to start looking, HOWEVER, it could only have been an EXCUSE for a larger agenda, because nothing RC could have been doing would mandate or excuse "desecration of religious objects, persecution of the clergy and anticlerical legislation"
and the ONLY element that would promote Jesus Christ as Lord and do all this is calvinist brand protestantism.
Since Mexico was run by secularists and not puritan similar protestants, it follows the purpose was not anti RC abuses, but anti Jesus Christ.
If an effort to replace RC with another form of Christianity had been done, the article would mention this.
I think this information renders anything about RC behavior irrelevant. Because the govt. behavior shows they were not out to clean RC up but to eradicate it because it was the major representative of Christianity.
(RC bad behavior might well be why God allowed this, but when a govt. purpose is to clean up not eradicate, it does not act like Mexico did.)
"The first of those two URLs is about freemasonry (not Catholicism) in Mexico." The point is to prove that an anti Christian agenda was at work in Mexico, not merely clean up the misbehaving church.
For those posters obsessed with wild conspiracy theories about the(Society of Jesus)commonly known as the Jesuits, you might be interested in this book. Below is a link with an excerpt discussing The Jesuits.
http://tinyurl.com/775e8ne
http://pittsburgh.academia.edu/ReynaldoRojoMendoza/Papers/150348/The_Church-State_Conflict_in_Mexico_from_the_Mexican_Revolution_to_the_Cristero_Rebellion some background to what happened
http://www.wou.edu/las/socsci/history/Senior%20Seminar%20Thesis%20Papers%20HST%20499/2010/Zach%20Mintzer.pdf peasants were on both sides of this war, political power of the church seems to have been the main irritant.
http://anthropology.ac.uk/era_resources/era/peasants/mexican_revolution.html buried in the text is some indication of RC not being totally innocent. However, before the persecution that brought on the Cristero war, they had shifted support to the revolution.
And this thread's whiner award goes to .... Paul
This award is presented to you for thinking your screen name is different than Anonymous.
I could have created a screen name Peter, Paul, Mary, Jsmes, Dean, etc. and it would be just as anonymous as yours.
The only profiles here that truely identify individuals belong to Christine and Constance.
Yours truely,
Anonymous
Anonymous said...
"As someone who often reads this blog (but rarely comments), I would just like to make the following observation. It seems to me that the Catholics are the least angry, but the Catholic bashers (who profess to be Christians) have a very passive aggressive anger, and are also the most verbally abusive individuals on this blog."
Anonymous, Catholic bashers definitely sound irrational but perhaps this is the extent of what they learned at Sunday school?
Anonymous said...
Anon 5:00 PM....
...that others visiting this site are made aware of the Romish dangers that lurk herein as a temptress ready to devour the souls of men.
Frank.
5:07 PM
Hello Frank,...we're in the 21st century...who in this day and age uses the word "romish"? Wake up and smell the facts - the Roman Church is the universal Church founded by Jesus Christ - and - Pope Benedict XVI is a Catholic Christian. Have no doubt about that...
http://tinyurl.com/3a4hpq
http://catholicnewworldorder.blogspot.com/
Thank you, Cathy for your words of wisdom and support...and for being the voice of reason here. You are a breath of fresh air!!!
anon 12:14 am - first the universal church was not founded at Rome but at Jerusalem. second, Rome is in schism and has semi heretical tendencies, not enough to eliminate grace but still a problem. third, loyalty to an organization on the grounds that it was founded by Christ does not guarantee obedience to Christ's words as Rome has shown a predilection for worldly power and glory for a long time.
The scandals we see now, sexual and otherwise, and reasons to suspect creeping heresy in the words of the top men, pope incl., are nothing new. The Renaissance popes were a nasty piece of work and so were a few others.
Benedict XVI has shown that he is more concerned about the organization as such than about Christ, in that he has gone after leaks he should have made public himself, and failed to use power appropriately in the past.
Keep loyal to Christ, but don't confuse that with loyalty to His alleged vicar. Ever hear of the phenomenon of palace overseers effectively rendering rulers irrelevant? such as the Shogunate in Japan.
Of course, nothing can render God irrelevant in reality. But He allows a lot of stuff to happen to let the evil of some become full and send them to judgement. Also a certain amount of evil is allowed in the world, like a certain amount was allowed to the devil to do to Job, for a while.
But consider any given pope, is he really acting for God, or playing shogun displacing the emperor?
The same can be said for bishops in general and some priests.
The Papal Edict of 1054
Excommunicating the Patriarch of Constantinople
Its Doubtful Validity and Legitimacy.
http://www.leepenn.org/PapalBull1054.html
Personally I don't mind reading the abuse here, it's the low standard of argument that I regret.
Those protestants who are convinced that the Roman Catholic Church is the scarlet woman of Babylon referred to in chapter 17 the Book of Revelation/Apocalypse will never concede that the RCC can contain serious committed Christians.
I am as evangelical as they come and I do know personally and well quite a few Catholics whom I consider, as best I can tell, to know and love Jesus Christ and to be saved by that faith.
There are also Catholics whom I consider nominal because their faith is IN PRACTISE in their church rather than in Christ. But that is also true in some other denominations.
The medieval RCC was a very good fit to the prophecy of the whore of Babylon except for one thing - it was local to Europe, not the whole world as the prophecy clearly states. When Portugal and Spain began empire-building, Rome looked an even better bet to be the scarlet woman. but the RCC now has negligible political power and the big anti-Christian principalities in the world are Islam and secularism. I do not believe that the RCC has the time to make a political comeback between now and the Second Coming of our Lord, given the pace of globalization and the State of Israel. I believe the scarlet woman will prove to be either the world financial system or a New Age endtime religious system. Both are seductive and evil. Don't trust any commentator who says that it is definitely one of these two without analyzing the possibility that it could be the other.
Cathy wrote: "Can any of the Protestant Catholic bashers explain why Protestants should be proud of the fact that Protestantism is perceived to be an agent of secularization?"
I don't see anything in the quote you provided that indicates protestants are proud of that fact.
But I can say this: I regard secularization as an abuse of the religious freedom that protestantism eventually brought to Western Europe. Nevertheless I am glad of that religious freedom. The entire story of the Bible is that a loving God gives humans the gift of freedom ("if you love something, set it free") and that, since Adam and Eve, we abuse that freedom. One day God will act in power rather than in humility and sort out the mess. But it is His task to do that in power, and ours only to do it in humility as did our Lord at his first coming.
I generally post here an Anon, but when I am correcting errors that some posters make about matters of physwical science I sign my posts "Physicist" (since I am one).
"Since Mexico was run by secularists and not puritan similar protestants, it follows the purpose was not anti RC abuses, but anti Jesus Christ."
It does not follow, Christine. That MIGHT be the case, but there are plenty of secularists who are wholly tolerant of church movements in which the church hierarchy does not seek to influence politics (while leaving its embers as individuals to act politically).
nevertheless, when there is not mere restraint of church in politics, but destruction and desecration, the goal is anti Christianity. The elimination of priests so that one is left per several cities or whatever, minimizing church life. This is eradication not correction or limiting.
What you don't realize, is that the secularist anti clerical movements of Europe feeding into Mexico, were anti religious per se by and large.
nevertheless, when there is not mere restraint of church in politics, but destruction and desecration, the goal is anti Christianity. The elimination of priests so that one is left per several cities or whatever, minimizing church life. This is eradication not correction or limiting.
What you don't realize, is that the secularist anti clerical movements of Europe feeding into Mexico, were anti religious per se by and large.
Christine,
You don't know what I do and don't realise. I choose my words to mean neither more nor less than what they say, although that is how you misinterpret them.
The secular leftist worldview tends to see everything as political. Non-political movements are simply beneath its radar. A church movement that comprises simply a congregation in each place with no hierarchy that seeks to influence politicians, and regards all of its members as priests without ordination - which I take to be the structure of the apostolic church - might not have been opposed by the Mexican secularists. (Please note that I say only "might".) But there were almost none such, because the Catholic church had done its utmost to keep them out of Mexico.
Doc Scott J can sure seem a little harsh sometimes but I guess in his loving defense of the truth he just tells it like it is!
Mexican Death Cults, The Catholic Church and The Inqusition 1/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIqw6RvdGN8&feature=relmfu
Mexican Death Cults, The Catholic Church and The Inqusition 2/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkvDKkn_PME&feature=watch_response
Mexican Death Cults, The Catholic Church and The Inqusition 3/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hKmAjL458&feature=watch_response
": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIqw6RvdGN8&list=PL44C7CEC0FF8B36A1&fe...
Dr. Scott Johnson--ContendingForTruth.com analyzes and exposes the Santa Muerte Skull Worship Cult and its ties to the Catholic Church, and gives an
IN-DEPTH Study of The Inquisition.
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/wp-content/uploads/Catholic-Inquisitions-Me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m31TOu27kzk
FAIR USE NOTICE: This video contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of issues of Salvation, and Spiritual significance. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material in this video is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. lf you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner"
Doc Scott J can sure seem a little harsh sometimes but I guess in his loving defense of the truth he just tells it like it is!
Mexican Death Cults, The Catholic Church and The Inqusition 1/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIqw6RvdGN8&feature=relmfu
Mexican Death Cults, The Catholic Church and The Inqusition 2/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkvDKkn_PME&feature=watch_response
Mexican Death Cults, The Catholic Church and The Inqusition 3/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hKmAjL458&feature=watch_response
Dr. Scott Johnson--
ContendingForTruth dot com analyzes and exposes the Santa Muerte Skull Worship Cult and its ties to the Catholic Church, and gives an
IN-DEPTH Study of The Inquisition.
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/wp-content/uploads/Catholic-Inquisitions-Me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m31TOu27kzk
More on the scandal at the Vatican. According to the book by Tom Horn, the next Pope will be the last and it will happen in 2012.
http://tinyurl.com/6tg47qm
Thanks for the articles Cathy. I haven't had time to read them yet.
Alfred
To 6:19 AM:
Yawn.......
Dr Scott J. is obviously delusional and wouldn't know 'the truth' if he tripped over it...but this just reveals more about you, the poster of this rant-filled hatred. You are obviously willing to stoop as low as you can go to grasp at anything and everything.
We Catholics could also go on the Internet and copy and paste all kinds of links talking trash and propaganda about the various Protestant sects; but, as you'll notice, we don't do that. Why? What would be the purpose / agenda? Besides, we don't feel as THREATENED by your churches as you obviously do by ours!!!
There is a reason why the Catholic Church is the largest of the Christian faiths...with more than 1 BILLION members. Get over it.
(Maybe there is a support group out there to help you with that...and you can stop BORING people on this blog.)
Anonymous Anonymous said...
To 6:19 AM:
Yawn...but this just reveals more about you, the poster of this rant-filled hatred. You are obviously willing to stoop as low as you can go to grasp at anything and everything. We Catholics could also go on the Internet and copy and paste all kinds of links talking trash and propaganda about the various Protestant sects; but, as you'll notice, we don't do that. Why? What would be the purpose / agenda? Besides, we don't feel as THREATENED by your churches as you obviously do by ours!!!
Anonymous, the only logical conclusion is that they feel threatened by the TRUTH. Anyone who does research on the beginnings of Christianity will learn that THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE CHURCH FOUNDED BY JESUS CHRIST. END OF STORY...It also speaks volumes that Satanists and Catholic bashers both target the Catholic Church...Now why is that?
http://tinyurl.com/7khlmcb
http://tinyurl.com/83rcshb
AMEN, Cathy!!!
I couldn't have expressed this any better than you just did.
Cathy:
I'm not Anon/6.19am but you asserted that "THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE CHURCH FOUNDED BY JESUS CHRIST. END OF STORY". Some of us regard congregations of people filled with the Holy Spirit as comprising valid churches throughout the world, because if you have God's anointing then who needs anybody else's? I assure you that the Holy Spirit is to be found in churches that do not claim apostolic succession of their episcopoi, although each individual member has picked up the faith from somebody who has picked up the faith from somebody who... who was one of the Apostles. Evidently God regards that as adequate, although you may wish to set higher standards.
Incidentally the Eastern Orthodox make an identical claim. How's a poor evangelical to decide between you and them?
Cathy:
I'm not Anon/6.19am but you asserted that "THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE CHURCH FOUNDED BY JESUS CHRIST. END OF STORY". Some of us regard congregations of people filled with the Holy Spirit as comprising valid churches throughout the world, because if you have God's anointing then who needs anybody else's? I assure you that the Holy Spirit is to be found in churches that do not claim apostolic succession of their episcopoi, although each individual member has picked up the faith from somebody who has picked up the faith from somebody who... who was one of the Apostles. Evidently God regards that as adequate, although you may wish to set higher standards.
Incidentally the Eastern Orthodox make an identical claim. How's a poor evangelical to decide between you and them?
To Anonymous @ 12:12 PM:
Re: "I assure you that the Holy Spirit is to be found in churches that do not claim apostolic succession..."
___________________________________
Yes, you are correct.
I am not Cathy, but I am a Catholic. I believe that God knows our hearts and souls and judges each one of us accordingly.
May God bless you and give you peace.
Dear Anon/12.27pm,
He does, thank you my brother or sister. May He bring peace to you too.
Anon/12.12pm
Tim Staples is a former Protestant who at one time attended the Jimmy Swaggart Bible College and aimed to become a youth minister for the Assemblies of God. People like Frank and his misinformed brethren might learn a thing or two from Tim.
Anonymous said...
Cathy:
I'm not Anon/6.19am but you asserted that "THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE CHURCH FOUNDED BY JESUS CHRIST. END OF STORY"...
Incidentally the Eastern Orthodox make an identical claim. How's a poor evangelical to decide between you and them?
Anonymous, the simple answer to your question is that the historical facts of the early years of Christianity, clearly illustrate that Peter was the first head of the Church founded by Jesus Christ, which is the Roman Catholic Church.
Here are some relevant links.
http://tinyurl.com/7osfvbq
http://tinyurl.com/8525gaw
http://tinyurl.com/7vre38k
Was St. Peter the first Pope martyred in Rome? Is St. Peter's Basilica in Rome built over his remains?
http://tinyurl.com/POPE-PETER
Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...
anon 12:14 am - ..."Rome is in schism and has semi heretical tendencies, not enough to eliminate grace but still a problem. third, loyalty to an organization on the grounds that it was founded by Christ does not guarantee obedience to Christ's words as Rome has shown a predilection for worldly power and glory for a long time. The scandals we see now, sexual and otherwise, and reasons to suspect creeping heresy in the words of the top men, pope incl., are nothing new. The Renaissance popes were a nasty piece of work and so were a few others."
Christine, the link below provides a sober assessment of Catholic-Orthodox relations. It provides much food for thought.
http://tinyurl.com/7azxg6l
paul said...
The devil is very powerful. The devil himself doesn't fool around with peons. He has a legion of demons for that.
5:28 PM
Paul, and the devil and his legion of demons hate the Catholic Church.
http://tinyurl.com/6vmtoq4
http://tinyurl.com/cogt2tu
Wow Cathy,
Real nice.
Can you explain how you got from what I said,
which you quoted, all the way to your very
grievous condemnation of me ?
What did I say ?
Quote me and then explain why you said the
directly above.
I was defending the Catholic faithful.
Why do you hate me ?
Paul, did you read the links? They discuss satanism and satanic practices of blaspheming the Eucharist and the Catholic Mass. Why are you offended by this?
I think paul is confused enough to think that the devil doesn't exist, and that if you refer to the devil in an argument with paul, you are referring to paul.
19th century Russian philosopher and Italian Catholic Archbishop on the Antichrist.
http://tinyurl.com/7wkvml9
Another very important movie:
Only this one is diabolical. I suppose the love affair of the fickle public has has cooled a bit with Harry Potter. It needs some heating up. Sony brings us "The Book of Spells" and interactive play station giving children the power of Harry Potter in this virtual reality game.
So many "Christian" families fell to the Harry Potter phenomenon. How many will get sucked into this as well. "In the last days perilous times will come..."
See the trailer here:
http://www.ingame.msnbc.msn.com/technology/ingame/harry-potter-author-helps-conjure-wonderbook-813577
YesNaSpanishTown,
Well said! I got sick and tired of hearing Christians say that the Harry Potter books were OK because the children showed bravery and commitment to each other in the face of evil, or because the books were dramatically well written, or because the author denied any interest in the occult, or because they were obviously fiction... anything, in fact, except the key point: that the books present the occult as spiritually neutral, and capable of being used for good or bad solely according to the will of the user. Christians who have their eyes open know that that is untrue and is a dangerous snare. It is the mistake of "white magick vs black magick", it is the mistake of the witch-doctor/shaman vs the witch's curse. But it is entirely from Satan. Never forget that "occult" means "hidden" and that deception was Satan's first weapon.
Cathy,
Without accepting its ecclesiology, I (an evangelical) certainly think that Vladimir Soloviev's "Short Tale of the Antichrist" which you say the Pope recently read is dramatically by far the best endtime novel ever written - and there's only some 100 pages of it. It comes from the same culture and period as Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy. The passage describing the entrance of Satan into the Antichrist, written from the latter's point of view, is truly spine-chilling.
After a major war and continuing instability leading to a world dictatorship, the latest Pope, recognising that he is in exceptional times, has chosen the name Peter II. At a world congress held in Jerusalem, he and the leader of the Orthodox church separately recognise the dictator as Antichrist and are immediately struck dead by bolts of lightning. But they are the two witnesses spoken of in the Book of Revelation, and they are resurrected as foretold there. Church unity is effected as the Orthodox, Elder John, falls into the arms of the Pope, while a character who represents Protestantism murmurs to the Pope the words Tu est Petrus (i.e., Jesus’ response to Peter’s confession that He is the Messiah).
Read it online at
http://www.goodcatholicbooks.org/antichrist.html
Here is the most recent example of a potential assault on national sovereignty by the European Commission.
EUROZONE CRISIS: EUROPEAN COMMISSION CALLS FOR BANKING UNION AND BAILOUTS TO BYPASS GOVERNMENTS
Eurozone Aid Fund 'Should Bypass Governments'
http://news.sky.com/home/business/
article/16238484
Susanna,
Thank you for sharing that link. It is very obvious that the EC(European Commission) is trying to make a strong move against national soveriegnty. This could be a very key change in the direction the European Union is headed, along with the EC (European Commission) recently talking about the idea of a super-president over the entire EU.
My kids read Harry Potter and then turned me into a newt. I got better though. It was even covered by insurance thanks to obamacare!
Speaking of moves against European sovereignty:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/94710949/The-Dissolution-of-Ireland-as-a-Sovereign-State
...The insider’s insider is confirming that the euro was introduced specifically to provoke a crisis that would result in the dissolution of independent sovereign states and the creation of a federal Europe controlled by a small elite. In other words, Ireland and Greece, along with several other countries, are being put through severe economic trauma and aggravated social distress in order to fulfil the ambitions of the small, powerful elite who control Europe.
Many apologies. In court about every day this week -- don't know if that is good or bad. I'm an excellent attorney, but not so good of a business person. Just as I didn't get rich as an author, neither did I as a lawyer -- for practical reasons -- I give too much of both away, or so my husband claims.
Constance
"I give too much of both away, or so my husband claims."
It is more blessed to give than to receive, Paul says somewhere.
I went to see THE GREATER GLORY yesterday. I thought it was a riveting movie and well worth viewing.
John Rupp and Craig,
I read a long time ago that the EU wannabe power elites in Europe had hoped to sneak in a centralized government through the back door vis a vis the euro.
Lo and behold.....
Europe May Need More Power to Deal With Bank Crisis
By STEPHEN CASTLE
Published: May 9, 2012
LONDON — After several failed efforts to restore confidence in their sickly banks, European governments face growing pressure to change course and give the European Union more power to shore up the region’s shakier lenders. ....read more.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/
10/business/global/europe-may-need
-more-power-to-deal-with-bank
-crisis.html?pagewanted=all
Cathy said: "Paul, and the devil and his legion of demons hate the Catholic Church."
Well, the beast hates the Harlot, that for 605 years and more murdered millions of Bible believing Christians in the most horric RC way, that's true.
Anyway in the words of Queen Gurtrude: The lady (and Harlot) doth protest too much, methinks!
Romanism is Antichrist.
Frank
Anonymous said...
"Romanism is Antichrist."
Anonymous, isn't the number of the beast 666 which identifies the Antichrist? I assume you can explain how "Romanism" equates with the number of the beast/Antichrist. Please do so. Thanks, Cathy
http://tinyurl.com/72lfb5h
http://tinyurl.com/c8ckpyw
To Anonymous @ 8:57 AM:
Re: "Romanism is Antichrist"
___________________________________
Provide evidence please.
Since you claim to 'know' so much about who the antichrist is (which seems to differ widely from the research that Constance has uncovered so far), maybe you should get your own blog so that 'like-minded' individuals can follow you there!!!
John 2:22-23 (KJV)
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
(We traditional, devout Catholics would NEVER deny this!!!)
Locusts swarm in wake of Libya uprising...
http://tinyurl.com/d8pa4g2
What kind of President doesn't have
a single word to say about D Day and
Normandy, the single biggest event
in the history of Democracy ? Not a word
since he took office.
Answer:
A Socialist, "Manchurian Candidate"
president.
I have reluctantly joined the birthers, seems that latest long form was produced with typeface font, by someone too young to know that in an old typewriter, no key ever strikes identically twice, same key, different slight pressure in finger hit, and this shows in the result.
such variation is not present in the document, so it is a fraud.
Why would TPTB pick such a potential problem? probably to be able to blackmail him and control him, and also to be able to quickly declare illegal and invalid all he has done, so that after they use NDAA and FEMA camps being activated now and enhanced Emergency stuff, they can shut it down before it can be turned on them, or if it is otherwise inconvenient to make permanent beyond a few years maybe ten or so.
That pairing of those clowns McCain (who was no hero, he broke and signed but has connections) and Palin was tailor made to ensure Obama won. Those who didn't want him, would vote for him to avoid those two getting us into WW 3 which is oops in the works anyway, as the elites want. I suppose they were shocked the vote was so close. Apparently a lot of Americans are even more stupid and manipulatable by the ususal stuff than the elites realized.
Bilderberg is where the real decisions are made. No one gets to be president who isn't approved there first.
The press used to pretend they didn't exist, now they are admitting it and commenting on them planning American future etc.
Actually, these people are violating some clauses of the Logan Act, a felony. And very freaked out by the public attention Alex Jones threw on them in Chantilly, VA at their just finished last get together. Some were overheard saying they wanted Ron Paul and his followers dead.
I don't like libertarianism, but he would be preferable to any of the Republican crew now, except perhaps Santorum, and definitely better than Obama. One term hopefully would not allow him to do the damage he wants to do to the poor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afacyXIXY90&feature=g-all-u
Mary Greely reads a London Guardian article about Bilderberg and Mitt Romney.
From a Theosophical Society General Report of the time.
Latin- American Theosophical Federation. But the greatest achieve-
ment has been, in our opinion, the organization o the Federation of
Latin-American National Societies.
The project of the Bye-Laws was made by us, and it deserved the
approval of Dr. Besant, and has been already accepted by four National
Societies, i.e., Fbrto llico, Chili, Argentine and Uruguay, which
leaves the Federation practically organized. We feel confident that
Mexico, Brazil and the Presidential Agency for Central An*irica will
also enter the Federation, which will enable us to combine ^ . fforts
and resources in the Theosophication of the whole Latin America.
Four National Societies, viz.. Argentine, Chili, Porto Rico and
Cuba have already agreed to hold the First Congress in the City of
Havana, in 1928.
Thursday, August 18, 2011
Freethinkers, Atheists, Socialists gang up on Catholic Christians in Spain
I've often noted in the past that things got dangerous for Christians and other targeted minorities when "Freethinkers", atheists, and other anti-Christian elements teamed up with occult interests. It happened in Mexico between 1926 and 1935 (in some states until 1939). Catholics were targeted to the death in Mexico during that period and the laws were also applied to Protestants. Read books: NO GOD NEXT DOOR; BLOOD DRENCHED ALTARS; and MEXICAN MARTYRDOM for more information. Similar things happened in Costa Rica as the occult world was then awaiting Jiddhu Krishnamurti's "ascent" as their "new Christ."
http://www.archive.org/stream/generalreportoft030767mbp/generalreportoft030767mbp_djvu.txt
http://tinyurl.com/7llourc
We feel confident that
Mexico, Brazil and the Presidential Agency for Central An*irica will
also enter the Federation, which will enable us to combine ^ . fforts
and resources in the Theosophication of the whole Latin America.
Four National Societies, viz.. Argentine, Chili, Porto Rico and
Cuba have already agreed to hold the First Congress in the City of
Havana, in 1928.
http://tinyurl.com/7llourc
We feel confident that
Mexico, Brazil and the Presidential Agency for Central America will
also enter the Federation, which will enable us to combine efforts
and resources in the Theosophication of the whole Latin America.
See Cumbey Thursday, August 18, 2011
Four National Societies, viz.. Argentine, Chili, Porto Rico and Cuba have already agreed to hold the First Congress in the City of Havana, in 1928.
We are playing watch the post disappear again.
http://tinyurl.com/7llourc
We feel confident that
Mexico, Brazil and the Presidential Agency for Central America will
also enter the Federation, which will enable us to combine efforts
and resources in the Theosophication of the whole Latin America.
Four National Societies, viz.. Argentine, Chili, Porto Rico and Cuba have already agreed to hold the First Congress in the City of Havana, in 1928.
See Cumbey Thursday, August 18, 2011
We are playing watch the post disappear again.
http://tinyurl.com/7llourc
We feel confident that
Mexico, Brazil and the Presidential Agency for Central America will
also enter the Federation, which will enable us to combine efforts
and resources in the Theosophication of the whole Latin America.
Four National Societies, viz.. Argentine, Chili, Porto Rico and Cuba have already agreed to hold the First Congress in the City of Havana, in 1928.
See Cumbey Thursday, August 18, 2011
We are playing watch the post disappear again.
http://tinyurl.com/7llourc
We feel confident that
Mexico, Brazil and the Presidential Agency for Central America will
also enter the Federation, which will enable us to combine efforts
and resources in the Theosophication of the whole Latin America.
Four National Societies, viz.. Argentine, Chili, Porto Rico and Cuba have already agreed to hold the First Congress in the City of Havana, in 1928.
See Cumbey Thursday, August 18, 2011
We are playing watch the post disappear again.
http://tinyurl.com/7llourc
We feel confident that
Mexico, Brazil and the Presidential Agency for Central America will
also enter the Federation, which will enable us to combine efforts
and resources in the Theosophication of the whole Latin America.
Four National Societies, viz.. Argentine, Chili, Porto Rico and Cuba have already agreed to hold the First Congress in the City of Havana, in 1928.
See Cumbey Thursday, August 18, 2011
We are playing watch the post disappear again. Part 1
http://tinyurl.com/7llourc
We feel confident that
Mexico, Brazil and the Presidential Agency for Central America will
also enter the Federation, which will enable us to combine efforts
and resources in the Theosophication of the whole Latin America.
Part 2 of a test to see what spam check finds so offensive that the post keeps disappearing.
Four National Societies, viz.. Argentine, Chili, Porto Rico and Cuba have already agreed to hold the First Congress in the City of Havana, in 1928.
Part 3 of a very brief post which keeps disappearing. I want to see what spam check finds offensive. The first two parts connected to a link to a General Report from 1928.
See Cumbey Thursday, August 18, 2011
Interesting that whatever I post keeps disappearing. Very brief, informative and non-offensive. This has happened all night.
It's now definite I am being blocked from posting anything.
Dorothy
To Paul @ 8:46 PM:
Yes . . .
(For once, I am in total agreement with you!!!)
BINGO, Christine!!! (Regarding the first paragraph of your post @ 10:41 PM.)
There is a lot more evidence to support this. Just check out the archives on www.worldnetdaily.com and even more 'pieces' of the puzzle will slowly come together.
(WND has been documenting this for the past 4 years.)
Anon. 10:18
Oh my word...what next ?
Anonymous 10:31 and Christine,
This is not about the birther issue - which I believe still needs to be thoroughly vetted on account of ongoing discoveries that are unearthing indisputable evidence of Obama's mendacity concerning other issues. But when placed together with the birther issue and other revelations about Obama's past - like the true nature of his relations with terrorist Bill Ayers and his affiliation with radical Derrick Bell and Bell's "Critical Race Theory" at Harvard, it contributes to a rather sinister portrait of a very highly placed corruptocrat.
Obama Caught Lying Again: He Was Member of 'New Party,' Says Kurtz
by Joel B. Pollak 7 hours ago
Barack Obama was, in fact, a member of the socialist New Party in the 1990s and sought its endorsement for the Illinois senate--contrary to the misrepresentations of Obama's presidential campaign in 2008, and in spite of the efforts of Politico's Ben Smith to quash the story. Stanley Kurtz, author of Radical-in-Chief: Barack Obama and the Untold Story of American Socialism (2010), has released new "smoking gun" evidence at National Review Online. It is evidence that the mainstream media can no longer ignore--and Obama can no longer deny....read more...
http://www.breitbart.com/
_________________________________
For more on the aforementioned "new smoking gun evidence" see........
June 7, 2012 4:00 A.M.
Obama’s Third-Party History
New documents shed new light on his ties to a leftist party in the 1990s.
By Stanley Kurtz
http://www.nationalreview.com/arti
cles/302031/obamas-third-party
-history-stanley-kurtz
To Frank:
I respectfully suggest that you go back to Dave Hunt and query him about WILLIAM LAW, JACOB BOEHME, THEOSOPHY, and NORMAN GRUBB.
And then look at the cover and his book THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT. Notice carefully the dots within the circles and the introduction by Norman Grubb, the publisher of his first two books.
I was very shocked when I discovered Norman Grubb and the Union Life movement. Dave told me then (1986 or 1987 as I recall) with a straight face that he had never met Norman Grubb.
Then examine the links of Sir Kenneth Grubb (Norman Grubb's younger brother), the World Council of Churches, Faith at Work (now known as LUMUNOS), the Emerging Church Movement, FELLOWSHIP FOUNDATION (Doug Coe & Company), Paul N. Temple, and the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
You might find yourself almost as disturbed and puzzled and not wanting to believe it as I originally was.
Constance
For all of Dave Hunt's Catholic bashing, the New Age Catholics appear to love him to death. Check out the CLASSICS OF WESTERN SPIRITUALITY series which includes Brother David Steindl-Rast and John Huston on their board. They enthusiastically recommend Dave Hunt's book on William Law in their recommended reading list for their William Law book. William Law was the translator of Jacob Boehme into English. His painting THE ILLUMINATION OF WILLIAM LAW is one of the full page glossy print pictures included in MANLY PALMER HALL'S book on occult groups and secret societies. Boehme was the inspiration for Madame HP Blavatsky's "Theosophy."
Also, ask Dave Hunt if Hell is a real physical fire? He says "No," in his book WHATEVER HAPPENED TO HEAVEN. My very sad question to Dave Hunt was "what ever happened to Hell."
I kept my mouth shut on Dave Hunt for many years (since October 1985) but maybe it's time people know just how insidious and vicious this spiritual war has been
There is a similar error creeping into the Orthodox churches through one Kalomiros and his radical misinterpretation of the icon about The River of Fire. Ably critiqued by Vladimir Moss and I think someone else.
Unfortunately, all you need to do is get some nonsense accepted by a few priests and it starts cropping up as "Orthodox faith" when a quick review of earlier teaching will show it isn't. But lots of Orthodox are like RC and Protestants, they don't really research or read Bible or Fathers or Catechism, they just accept whatever they hear in church or a church sponsored event.
Dave Hunt does not write with a humble pen. I regret that he never considers alternative identities for Revelation's whore of Babylon. Plenty of writers have loudly insisted that she can only be the Roman Catholic church; plenty insist that she can only be the New Age movement morphing into an endtime syncretist religious system; plenty insist that she can only be the endtime financial system. A serious commentator will not dismiss published alternative to his own choice without in-depth analysis. Hunt also insists on the pre-Tribulation Rapture, which I find at best highly eisegetical and which could only have gone mainstream in a culture where the church has gone soft. ("Don't worry, you'll be magicked out of the world before anything too bad happens"... tell that to the millions of martyrs through the last 2000 years.)
"they don't really research or read Bible or Fathers or Catechism, they just accept whatever they hear in church or a church sponsored event"
Some words written by some of the Fathers cannot be reconciled with scripture. There is no reason to read them other than as church history. They deserve no priority for being close in time to the New Testament, which is written from the Hebraic mindset. The Fathers are all of the Greek mindset and this culture shift is as great as any due to the passage of time. They simply seek to make the gospel plausible to the Greek mindset. They are no different in principle from a Papuan Christian seeking to explain the faith to Papuans using Papuan cultural categories.
while there is some merit to what you say about making the Gospel presentable to the Greek mindset, the fact is that except where Origen (later condemned post mortem at the Fifth Ecumenical Council held at Ephesus) was a major influence, most of what they say is biblical they draw heavily on The Bible to support things. It is often pointed out in EO that The Fathers and saints in general are not infallible.
However, a wholesale dismissal of them is not to the point either. They are the ones who defended first against all the heresies that you find described and condemned in protestant books on the subject.
The Fathers and the councils condemned these heresies based on The Bible, and the later church leans on the authority of the Councils to reject these heresies without much analysis of why the Councils were correct.
And if one read The Fathers a lot or the dogmatic definitions of the Councils, one wouldn't accept the heresies or wierd borderline stuff.
Christine,
I'm not dismissing the Fathers. Please don't distort my meaning. I'm saying that they need to be studied only if you are interested in church history.
Many of them, such as Basil of Caesarea who is a prominent Orthodox saint, regarded scripture as having unique authority.
IF you are Orthodox AND you rely on the priest and bishop and whatever they put up with running about in common talk, THEN you need to check them with The Fathers and The Dogmatic Definitions of The Councils.
Otherwise, if they fall into error, you won't catch it. This might be a peripheral rather than a core error, but it isn't good.
Now, did you know that Wesley's teaching about personal holiness, not just attending church as an external exercize, derived from his study of The Fathers?
"did you know that Wesley's teaching about personal holiness, not just attending church as an external exercize, derived from his study of The Fathers?"
He knew that there was something missing from his Christian life; he failed to make converts and he was frightened when a ship he was on looked like sinking, whereas Christians on board from the Moravian community weren't. Eventually he was granted the Holy Spirit at a meeting in London. If reading the Fathers helped him toward that point, good. We are all inspired by things we read as well as the Bible. The issue is whether it is necessary for a Christian to read the Fathers, as it is the Bible. It is not.
my point about reading The Fathers was in context of The ORTHODOX who tend to rely on tradition, so they should check and make sure that what they are receiving as tradition is in fact the tradition sent by The Fathers, and while we're at it, make sure that there aren't some things in the Fathers that are not from The Scriptures. The value of the Tradition is, does it match the Tradition handed by the Apostles, or not?
Because of accepting whatever is heard or read without going to sources and earlier stuff, just assuming it IS Orthodox, there are heretical ideas sneaking in.
And the same thing is happening with the evangelicals and emerging church and whatnot, they accept what is taught, which has a smattering of Scripture out of context, and don't check it more.
"The ORTHODOX... tend to rely on tradition, so they should check and make sure that what they are receiving as tradition is in fact the tradition sent by The Fathers, and while we're at it, make sure that there aren't some things in the Fathers that are not from The Scriptures."
As you agree with me that the scriptures are authoritative over the writings of the Fathers, you will agree that reading the Fathers is simply an exercise in church history. Too bad that Orthodoxy doesn't practice this even though it preaches it, as you say. But this tendency in Orthodoxy is not new, or Luther would simply have led his followers to Orthodoxy.
I have not seen this movie but tend to trust the view of Prof. Rudy Acuña that the film is ahistorical and not worth watching for historical content. The very title of the film suggests it is a piece of propaganda, echoing the Jesuit slogan: "Ad majorem Dei gloriam" = "For the greater glory of God." Please check out the professor's post on thinkmexican.org .
"As you agree with me that the scriptures are authoritative over the writings of the Fathers, you will agree that reading the Fathers is simply an exercise in church history. Too bad that Orthodoxy doesn't practice this even though it preaches it, as you say. But this tendency in Orthodoxy is not new, or Luther would simply have led his followers to Orthodoxy."
firstly, Luther didn't have Orthodoxy to fall back on, the east and west being pretty well cut off. An approach was made to the Orthodox, but unfortunately it was made by the Calvinist wing and the warp potential in Augustine, was over the top by then, so no go.
The Fathers have great value because they were steeped in Scripture, just as protestants value some later writers e.g., Luther, who missed a few points and wanted to cut James Epistle out of Scripture, and succeeded in excising the deuterocanonical books, which had been accepted by the Church as valid information sources and two of them to be used by catechumens until then.
Protestants do more tradition than they realize and read into Scripture at times and miss things.
For instance, take Holy Water something that goes back to Moses, and a blessing of water by Elisha or Elijah I forget who on into the early church to now. And blessed objects - well, there's Paul's prayer cloths. And Peter's shadow,
which is more like a relic. As for relics, in the OT the bones of Elisha brought a dead man back to life.
While the key thing is to believe in Jesus Christ, there is a lot of blessing being missed by the stripped down version of Christianity and the predestination and so forth ideas are not a viable alternative to absolute pelagianism.
The heresies infecting the churches today, were fought in early centuries also, and it is instructive to read about that.
Church history is not a waste of time, but The Fathers aren't just church history, they are a collection of homilies, biblical exegesis, and in some cases direct answers to errors of various sorts.
protestants would do well to consider the error of the filioque, which was taken over blindly by them.
"Luther didn't have Orthodoxy to fall back on, the east and west being pretty well cut off."
Luther knew his church history and therefore knew about the Orthodox. He would have found it a lot easier to go Orthodox than to start over, which he eventually did when he realised that Rome was not interested in serious revitalisation. That he chose not to go the Orthodox route can only be because he saw that it too suffered from many of the same theological problems as Rome.
"Luther... wanted to cut James Epistle out of Scripture, and succeeded in excising the deuterocanonical books, which had been accepted by the Church as valid information sources"
The question is not whether those books were 'valid information sources'. The question is whether they were scripture. Luther was far from being the first to deny it. St Jerome, the early church's translator of the Hebrew Old Testament and Greek New Testament into Latin, insisted that those books were not scripture. Within these books, the Letter of Jeremiah (often printed as the 6th chapter of Baruch) says (in verse 2) that the Jews would be in Babylon for seven generations, whereas Jeremiah (25:11) stated (correctly) 70 years. And supposedly Tobit was alive when the Assyrians invaded Israel in 722BC (Tobit 1:3), and was also alive more than 200 years earlier when Jeroboam’s revolt against Jerusalem (Tobit 1:4-5) divided Israel into northern and southern kingdoms. Yet he is said to have lived less than 130 years (Tobit 14:2)...
"Protestants do more tradition than they realize"
Everybody has traditions. The point is that they should not be insisted on when you meet Christians of other traditions, whereas the scriptures should be insisted upon. And of course no church tradition must be inconsistent with scripture.
I never said that church history is a waste of time. I enjoy reading it myself, and I agree that some debates today are re-runs of debates back then. (Irenaeus remains a great resource vs New Age gnosticism.) But I would never insist that one Christian is less than another Christian for knowing little church history. You can be a perfectly good Christian with scant knowledge of it.
"protestants would do well to consider the error of the filioque, which was taken over blindly by them"
By SOME of them. Because the scriptures are silent on the issue of the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit, I have no opinion on the matter. Jesus' words reported by John at the Last Supper are decisive only about the temporal procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father; do you understand the difference?
This movie is about the Catholic Church, why there is so much Catholic bashing on a Christian blog is beyond me. May God have mercy on those who bash their own brothers in faith. All Catholics are Christians.
Pax Tecum,
Kathleen
Catholic Christian
Pray the Rosary
I'm new to this site so please bare with me. Am I to understand that this site if for Christians that believe that Catholics are also Chrisitans?
pandora charms
nike huarache
yeezy shoes
moncler sale
nike air presto
yeezy shoes
pandora jewelry
adidas gazelle sale
adidas yeezy
d rose shoes
www0716
moncler outlet
michael kors outlet online
air max 90
dansko shoes
longchamp solde
cheap jordans
ralph lauren pas cher
dsquared2 jeans
burberry outlet
adidas trainers
Post a Comment