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| Michael Dowd's website page - complete with Matthew Fox endorsement! He is also active with Barbara Marx Hubbard and the rest of the New Age "conscious evolution" crowd. |
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| Michael Dowd preaching his perspective to the United Nations "Values Caucus" |
Michael Dowd is a minister. He used to believe he was a Christian one. He is still given Christian pulpits, wears pastoral robes and claims to preach "the good news." That is the not the Christian gospel. He thinks he's way too "advanced" for that. It is the "good news of 'evolution'" rejecting God's word, and rejecting the necessity for Jesus Christ and his atonement. Once upon a time he was an evangelical Christian, per his book, THANK GOD FOR EVOLUTION. As you can see from the picture above of his website, he proudly bears Matthew Fox's endorsement. Matthew Fox was excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church in 1993 for, inter alia, his rejection of the doctrine of Original Sin. Fox says we have instead "original blessing," and as such, we don't need Jesus Christ and his atonement. Matthew Fox and his Bear & Company are one of the most prolific of New Age publishers. One of Matthew Fox's "original blessers" is Lucis Trust, the successor to Lucifer Publishing Company formed by Alice and Foster Bailey in 1922.
How and when Michael Dowd became a convert to evolution started at a Christian college, Evangel University. Located in Springfield, Missouri, it is the higher educational arm of the Assemblies of God denomination. He says there was a circle of professors who confided their belief in evolution and rejection of Creation. It was there that his intellectual belief in evolution began. His "heart-felt" conversion came from hearing a Catholic speaker.
From there he decided he would become an evangelist for the "good news" of evolution. He has been given many Christian pulpits and he uses them to ridicule the "everlasting gospel." Here's a sample of his message from one recent interview given in advance of his speaking at a Lutheran college:
VCReporter: For much of mankind, religion and science have gone together like oil and water, and it seems, as a reverend, you’re sort of in the middle of it trying to link the two. Michael Dowd: What I’m trying to do is show how scientific, historic and cross-cultural evidence reveals divine guidance, or divine communication, or whatever you want to call it. When I speak to religious people, I call it God’s word or scripture. The idea that old books are a better guide or a better map of what’s real and what’s important than current guidance has led to collective insanity. Scientific, historic and cross-cultural evidence are our best and most important map of what’s real and what’s important. So I’m trying to show religious people how it is that science reveals divine guidance better than the Bible, better than the Quran, better than any ancient text. And I’m trying to show nonreligious people how our best scientific understanding of reality, which is called “big history,” shows how deeply inspiring and empowering an evidential science-based world view is, and that evolution isn’t just about Darwin, DNA and dinosaurs. Evolution is about how we understand ourselves and the quality of our lives, and whether we’re going to struggle with our lives or have fruitful, amazing joyous lives because how we think about our human nature profoundly impacts the quality of our lives. If I believe the reason I have a difficult time living in integrity, and why I shoot myself in the foot and why I have negative thoughts and patterns, if I think all of that is because my great-great-great great-grandmother ate an apple, I am going to be clueless about how to live in integrity.
This is a sad fruit of Christian educators ignoring the New Age Movement and its now very obvious dangers. Michael Dowd would do well to dust off his old Bible and carefully read Thessalonians, chapter 2 (giving a profile of those who accept the anti-Christ ) and Revelation Chapter 14 (giving warnings about the "everlasting gospel" and the fate of those who depart from it, combined with warnings to worship God who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and the fountains of waters. If Michael Dowd believes those passages are not being literally fulfilled, he might want to take a cold, sober look in the mirror.
His very soul is at stake. Those Christian educators who sold him out have their souls at stake, even more so! He went from being an ardent Christian to now serving as one of Barbara Marx Hubbard's props for one of her newest 'conscious evolution' videos.
May the Lord help him and may the Lord help us all!
CONSTANCE
164 comments:
Please! We need more Catholics vs. Protestants! Who wants to go first?
BRAVO, Constance.
Thank you for reminding everyone how the New Age Movement has infiltrated ALL of Christianity - and not just the Catholic Church.
With the help and grace of God, all of us - who remain strong, alert and true to our traditional CORE beliefs - WILL survive come Hell (pardon the pun) or high water!!!
Evolution is a scientific theory. The question of whether it is true or not certainly has intersection with the Book of Genesis (although rather more subtly than fundamentalists realise). New Age appropriation of this scientific theory as 'social Darwinism' is evil, as Hitler taught us - but has nothing to do with the scientific theory.
That is right, "evolution" is a THEORY, not established fact. I'm reminded of Pope Pius X's catchism adaption of A TREATISE ON MODERNISM (Pascendi Domenici Gregis), where the wonderful quote appears, "they write with such ease and assurance, one would think they were right back there in person, watching the writers of the sacred books for themselves."
I very much like the Apostle Paul's quote, of "science, so called . . ."
Constance
Correction, with apologies to Catholic readers, that should be Pope Pius X's ENCYCLICAL adaptation, not CATECHISM.
Constance
Evolution is a scientific theory. The question of whether it is true or not certainly has intersection with the Book of Genesis (although rather more subtly than fundamentalists realise). New Age appropriation of this scientific theory as 'social Darwinism' is evil, as Hitler taught us - but has nothing to do with the scientific theory.
___________________________________
Well stated, Anon.
A TREATISE ON MODERNISM (Pascendi Domenici Gregis)
__________________________________
There is a lot to learn from that particular encyclical.
Fwiw, Mr. Hal Lindsey briefly mentions the 10-nation Western European Union (WEU, aka the modified Brussels Treaty Powers), with respect to Socialism, near the end of his 9/30/11 program:
http://www.hallindsey.com/
Michael Dowd and his accompanying "Hall of Shame"
KARL GIBERSON: Eastern Nazarene Seminary;
JOHN COBB, JR.: "Process theologian" I have personally viewed with alarm since 1981.
BRIAN McLAREN: "Emerging Church" apostate and false shepherd, par excellence;
BRUCE SANGUIN: United Church of Canada;
JOHN SHELBY SPONG: Left Jesus Christ, the scriptures and the fold a long time ago, militant foe of faith still working from church collection plates;
MORE TO COME
MORE ON THIS THEOLOGICAL HALL OF SHAME:
SALLY MORGENTHALER: Looks like she is trying to be the new Marilyn Ferguson. She has been an adjunct professor at the GORDON CONWELL SEMINARY.
GLORIA SCHWAB: Catholic evolutionary 'theologian.'
GAIL WORCELO: Appears to be leading an earth worship order, "SISTERS OF EARTH AND THE LEGACY OF THOMAS BERRY" (Berry proclaimed himself a Geologian. He did as much or more damage than Matthew Fox, but escaped Church punishment, to the best of my knowledge)
MORE TO COME, THIS IS A LONG AND SORRY LIST!
UPHEAVAL WATCH:
New York City police say about 700 protesters have been arrested after they swarmed the Brooklyn Bridge and shut down a lane of traffic for several hours.
The group Occupy Wall Street has been camped out in a plaza in Manhattan's Financial District for nearly two weeks staging various marches, and had orchestrated an impromptu trek to Brooklyn on Saturday evening. They walked in thick rows on the sidewalk up to the bridge, where some demonstrators spilled onto the roadway after being told to stay on the pedestrian pathway, police said. Most of those arrested face disorderly conduct charges, while others were accused of resisting arrest.
The group has meetings and forums planned for Sunday at Zuccotti Park, the private plaza off Broadway the protesters have occupied.
http://tinyurl.com/3ccv79t
Sunday, October 2, 2011
Check out www.drudgereport.com
More than 700 arrested in Wall St protest...
Dozens cuffed in Boston after targeting BANK OF AMERICA...
Protests spread across USA...
Los Angeles...
Chicago...
Denver...
Seattle...
MICHAEL DOWD HALL OF SHAME (continued):
DOUG PAGITT: 'UNIVERSE HONORING CHRISTIANITY'
MATTHEW FOX: Res Ipsa Loquitur!
GRETA VOSPER: "BEYOND GOD, BECOMING WHAT WE BELIEVE IN . . ." (boy, is she in for a surprise!)
MORE TO COME
TO ANONYMOUS: "Upheaval watch," thanks! This is truly the New Age Revolution in open progress! It has come to American shores.
Constance
Thank you so much for all of this valuable information, Constance. It is critical that we all become aware of just who all of 'the players' are.
MICHAEL DOWD has classified himself in the same frame as Barbara Marx Hubbard claims for herself:
"EVOLUTIONARY CHRISTIAN MYSTIC"
http://evolutionarychristianity.com/blog/speaker-bios/
Constance
We received a mass mailing this week from a local church. It calls itself Northwest Bible Church. In a suburb of Columbus, Ohio. The flyer/invitation had some of the flavor of a Purpose Driven bunch so I visited their website. It was confusing. Some of the stuff there made it sound like they were okay. But some of it did not. For instance, I clicked on the women's Bible study section and found they were having two studies. Both studies used books written by women who are part of the Emergent apostacy. I sent off a couple of emails asking specific questions. And just as has always happened in the past when I have done similar things, nobody ever replies to my queries. They sure are afraid to answer questions. i wonder why they bother trying to recruit when they are so afraid of those they attempt to bring into their fold?
Constance
This grieves me deeply. I have strong ties to the AoG and have communicated with senior denominationaI and higher education leadership my deep concerns about the growing acceptance of Emerging, Contemplative, and seeker sensitive speakers and teachers on several occasions - I have been very vocal and very blunt.
I have a close friend who is a faculty member at the AoG Seminary in Springfield. They are in the process of merging the Seminary with Evangel University, their sister place of higher education in Springfield. I have forwarded your blog information to him.
You can not make assumptions any more about what people and organizations believe.
Thanks for reporting on this.
Dave in CA
In addition to his "preaching," it looks like he may be campaigning for "False Prophet." The Wikipedia article notes his address to the United Nations:
On April 2, 2009, Dowd at the United Nations addressed the lack of an evolutionary worldview which he maintains has resulted in a global integrity crisis that requires a deep-time view of human nature, values and social systems to provide a solution for going forward.
Constance
Here's where Dowd brags about his speech to the UN Values Caucus:
http://evolutionarytimes.org/files/tag-michael-dowd.php
Re Northwest Bible Church, Columbus. I don't know all about where it is coming from, but this series looks interesting, even edifying:
Are you tired of the uncertainty?
We are experiencing global financial chaos and no one seems to have the answers. The threat of terrorism is worldwide. Nations are changing and aligning in a peculiar fashion. Global interdependency, instant worldwide communication, GPS tracking devices, bio-chemical and nuclear weapons, and a growing movement for a cashless society and one-world economy…all of this begs the questions, “Why is this happening? What are we moving toward? Who has the answers?”
Join us for this provocative nine-week prophecy series as Pastor Ken Harrell gives a careful examination and breakdown of current world events and the events we are headed toward.
You really don’t want to miss these prophecy messages. “It’s later than you think!”
Series Schedule
October 16 – The World Stage Is Being Set
October 23 – Israel: The Nation That Won’t Go Away
October 30 – Islam: What You Need to Know
November 6 – The Day That Shocks the World
November 13 – The Coming Economic Apocalypse
November 20 – The Final Jihad
December 4 – The Man At the Center of It All
December 11 – When God’s Clock Strikes Midnight
December 18 – The Most Sacred 35 Acres in the World
Constance
More of Michael Dowd and his war on orthodox / fundamentalist Christianity:
Over the next few weeks, I will elaborate on The 7 Deadly Sins of Old-Time Religion, taking them one at a time. I will show that there are 7 profoundly negative consequences of religious resistance to a measurable understanding of reality, and deep-time view of grace. Specifically, I will reveal how, from a religious naturalism point of view, a pre-evolutionary worldview frozen within scriptural literalism necessarily...
1. Trivializes God, guidance, and good news;
2. Balkanizes religion and bastardizes science;
3. Desacralizes nature;
4. Blasphemes death;
5. Fails our children in three tragic, unnecessary ways;
6. Denies individuals and families access to the most important saving wisdom for overcoming personal and relational challenges; and
7. Blinds us from seeing the true nature of the current global integrity crisis.
Everything must evolve in order to remain viable. Three billion years ago, life (bacteria and archaea) thrived in a context of 2% oxygen. Today, anything less than 15% oxygen would wipe out all mammals. In an ever-emerging, ever-developing Cosmos, conditions that were once healthy and lifegiving can later become dangerous or even deadly—which is, of course, why life must be so adaptive.
Traditional religions will either evolve like everything else or, paradoxically, they will destroy nearly everything they stand for, or perhaps just go extinct. I'm betting my life that they will evolve, . . .
From http://evolutionarytimes.org/files/tag-michael-dowd.php
Constance
Please refresh your browser as I added a picture showing Michael Dowd's UN Seminar.
Constance
Constance,
According to his bio, Dowd was originally raised a Roman Catholic.
That may explain why other Catholic apostates like Matthew Fox and former Catholic priest-become humanist psychologist Stephen Uhl just love him to pieces.
MICHAEL DOWD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Michael_Dowd
Constance,
This is Anon of 11:32am who wrote that "Evolution is a scientific theory. The question of whether it is true or not certainly has intersection with the Book of Genesis (although rather more subtly than fundamentalists realise). New Age appropriation of this scientific theory as 'social Darwinism' is evil, as Hitler taught us - but has nothing to do with the scientific theory."
You responded by stressing that evolution was [just] a theory and quoting Pius X's encyclical on modernism that "they write with such ease and assurance, one would think they were right back there in person, watching the writers of the sacred books for themselves". Also St Paul's "science, falsely so called..." (1 Tim 6:20).
The word Paul wrote, translated in the King James Bible as 'science' *before* modern science commenced, is GNOSIS, and Paul used it elsewhere in, for instance, "I count all things but loss for the excellency of the GNOSIS of Christ Jesus my Lord". Use of his words to Timothy to argue against modern science is a rhetorical distortion.
Yes, evolution is just a scientific theory. So is our knowledge of physics which enabled man to land on the moon. Quantum electrodynamics, which has been confirmed to an accuracy of one part in a thousand million (!), is also just a theory. In almost no field other than the creation/evolution debate do people who cannot explain a scientific theory accurately say it is wrong.
Pius X also wrote (Lamentabili, 1907 syllabus), "Since the deposit of Faith contains only revealed truths, the Church has no right to pass judgment on the assertions of science."
Maybe the ASSERTIONS of science, yes, but the LIES of "science, so called," NO. Sorry, for me to accept evolution without intelligent design would require me to have unlimited faith in coincidence. I do not. Further, let's assume that the original sin came from a pair of monkeys (or lesser 'evolved' creatures) rather than from the beings God created in His own image and after His likeness.
Let God be true and every man a liar. Don't point to Galileo to me. Yes, that was error by the Church. But the scriptures plainly pointed to the "circle of the earth". God has not chosen to reveal all to us yet. It is the glory of man to search out a matter. But to arrogate to oneself Godhood as the "conscious evolutionists have," is just plain unconscionable.
Constance
Constance,
Anon again. Evolution has been demonstrated in recent decades by the correlations observed in genes, hugely backing up the argument from physiology and fossils. I believe that you may have uncritically taken on board some assumptions from the fundies about what the Bible says, without considering other ways to reconcile evolution and Genesis. Incidentally I don't accept Genesis as myth either. But what if, thousands of years ago, God took a hominid, whose BODY had gotten there by evolution, and blew into him something the bible calls the Neshamah of life which made him human? for various reasons that makes a lot more sense to me than the 'Frankenstein' scenario of the naive reading.
Animals procreate 'after their own kind'? That means only that male lions mate with female lions not female giraffes, to produce lions not mixed-breeds. It says nothing about whether the result, 1000 generations down the line, would still resemble their ancestors so closely as to be able in principle to interbreed with them. (That's another "Bible-plus" axiom of the supposedly Bible-only fundies.)
As for intelligent design...
Steven Jay Gould held that, if the earth's history was re-run with only a very little difference a long way back, humans would never have evolved. It would follow that our presence is remarkable. (That's not a bad argument for God setting things up that way, although Gould, an atheist, refused to follow his own logic.) You might be a Gouldite without realising that there are alternatives. However, Simon Conway Morris, of Cambridge University, has argued - very well, in my view - that the evolution of intelligent bipeds was only a matter of time and small detail, given the earth's environment and its history. That would greatly change the picture - and would again point to God...
But what if, thousands of years ago, God took a hominid, whose BODY had gotten there by evolution, and blew into him something the bible calls the Neshamah of life which made him human?
__________________________________
This is how evolution was explained to me as a child of 7 or 8 by one of my teachers in Catholic school. If I recall correctly, the teacher told the class that at some point in the evolutionary process God "inserted a soul" into man. It made sense to me then, and still makes sense to me.
Because of this, I have never followed the evolution/intelligent design/creationist debate very closely, since I already had an answer to it that allowed me to reconcile faith and religion. Thanks, Sister Camille. ;-)
Constance,
Sorry, I've been very busy of late, and I just now saw your post on the previous thread. I'll check out your article re: MSoG and Dave Hunt.
My main point was to illustrate that there are some orthodox Christian books on InterVarsity although I do wish these authors would stay away from this publisher in favor of other (more) orthodox ones.
As regards your current post, I note that Bill Britton was from Springfield, MO and I've heard of others of like mind "ministering" there.
anon 2:17,
Are you saying that Adam and Eve, the first humans according to the Bible, did not have souls since "souls were inserted" into man "at some point in the evolutionary process," presumably later?
Constance,
I read over the May '89 New Age Monitor and found it interesting on a number of levels:
1) I did not know about the Bill Britton reference (obviously, as I hadn't read it yet) and thought it funny he was mentioned after my post of 3:51pm above. Plus, the Britton letter was priceless in the way uses other MSoG-adherents in order to "prove" his orthodoxy. LOL
While I was already familiar with the large majority of the article by Steve Montgomery, it did fill in a few blanks for me. I've been listening to a lot of Paul Cain audio from this time frame (late '80s to early '90s) for a few posts I'm working on.
2) The Dave Hunt was interesting. I'm curious where he gets his extra-biblical notions.
3) Re: Chuck Swindoll: I found this of interest as I, too, enjoy listening to him. He recently advertised a book which espouses some individuals who were influential to him. I recall at least one of the authors mentioned was eyebrow raising to me.
In addition, I wrote to his ministry 1.5 years ago due to his insistence in quoting from Eugene Peterson's The Message paraphrase. I ended up in an email exchange with an associate. Unfortunately, Swindoll STILL quotes from Peterson's "bible." I included this in an article on my blog.
Craig,
This is Anon@12:23pm, with whom Anon@2:17pm (to whom you directed your question) agreed.
I am indeed saying that something non-material in the make-up of a human being was missing from Adam, something without which he could not be classed as human. Please be careful, though, whether this is soul or spirit - there is no exact 1:1 translation of the various Hebrew, Greek and English terms.
anon,
I am indeed saying that something non-material in the make-up of a human being was missing from Adam, something without which he could not be classed as human.
Can you show me something Biblically to back up your assertion that Adam was different from (most) the rest of the human race?
Adam & Eve had no belly buttons where as the rest of us do.
This is found in the Bible next to the word Bible.
LOL
I thought it was found in the Bible next to the phrase Sola Scriptura. LOL 2
Has anyone heard on 97.1 FM the latest commercials for joining the Masons of Michigan? I was so shocked to see them so out in the open. They are also sponsors on the Detroit Tiger radio spots. I heard the tail end of one whereby money would donated on behalf of the Masons for child identification programs. What's that, microchipping?
Yikes!!!
How scientific is evolution?
Naturalistic evolution depends in theory on two processes to suceed, random chance to write the genetic code and natural selection to sort out the code that works. There are plenty of examples of natural selection working if the selection pressure is strong enough. However chance is totally inadequate to write code of the complexity that is required for life. I work as an engineer and programmer in the field of computer security. A 128 bit key (roughly 26 characters) is calculated to keep all the current computing power of mankind busy for the next 10^25 years(100 trillion trillion years) to crack. Surely the uniqueness of the simplist living cell is massively greater than a 26 character string. Certainly chance and selection has had a lot of effect on life but it did not write the genetic code. The mechanisms in life are astounding. To believe that they don't require an author or a designer is an act of faith that ignores what we know about information and security because the genetic code is a digital code that obeys the same laws. Naturalistic evolution is not science but serves the same purpose as religion for its believers which is part of the reason it generates such heated arguments.
Ron C
Craig,
I don't understand your question.
Once a particular hominid had had the Neshamah of life blown in by God, he was human (and known as Adam); before that he wasn't. At that moment he was the only human, and he was unfallen. Today there are many humans, but they are fallen. This understanding is as consistent with Genesis as the usual Frankenstein-animation-type scenario, and it fits scientific discovery better. Feel free to rephrase your question if you would like me to respond further.
Ron C,
What is a 'random' process? Simply a process that people believe nobody can predict. But that statement is as much about human ingenuity as about the process itself. (Computers got banned from casinos!) You are assuming that anything non-random is explicit intervention from God, but as we learn more I expect to see that some of the pathways you suppose genetic evolution might have taken but didn't are in fact closed off for scientific reasons. Incidentally I held postdoctoral research contracts in three major universities studying statistical mechanics.
Anon@4:56pm
News With Views is beginning to worry me. A new writer has been introduced, a Paul McGuire. And he, too, is promoting Roy Masters. What gives? Why is all this New Age stuff now coming to the fore at NWV?
Anon 4:29,
Are you familiar with the
scientist/author Gerald Schroeder?
His book "The Science of God" is
wonderful. I wish Christians
everywhere would read it.
There's a lovely talk by a young Christian, a student at Edinburgh University, on the REAL history of the theory of evolution. Quite fascinating. You can see it on You Tube. It's called 'The Modern Rise of Paganism' and it's on the edinburghcreation channel.
Anon (@4:56pm),
...Once a particular hominid had had the Neshamah of life blown in by God, he was human (and known as Adam); before that he wasn't. At that moment he was the only human, and he was unfallen. Today there are many humans, but they are fallen...
I think you did answer my question. In Genesis 1:30 God breathed life into the animals. Using your theory, they were not animals before then(?) [cf Job 33:4].
Adam was unfallen until he partook of the forbidden fruit, and we've inherited this state of fallenness. He was not fallen until this point and certainly was not fallen at the point when God breathed life in him!
Perhaps I misunderstand your position?
Anon (anon@4:56),
I see I didn't think this part through when I wrote, He was not fallen until this point and certainly was not fallen at the point when God breathed life in him!.
Restating the paragraph of yours I cited: 1) Adam was not human until God breathed life in him; 2) Once God breathed life in him, he became humnan and was unfallen; 3) Adam later became fallen and we've inherited this state of fallenness.
Now, I'll add the bit I posted from above:
In Genesis 1:30 God breathed life into the animals. Using your theory, they were not animals before then(?) [cf Job 33:4].
My point in referencing both Genesis 1:30 and Job 33:4 is that God breathes life into ALL of creation. So, I'm not sure I understand your position.
TO RON C
Thank you and God bless you! You so eloquently expressed my own thoughts but with scientific knowledge that I lack.
Constance
To All:
I apologize if this is off topic, but I thought it was too important not to post it.
Russia's Putin says wants to build "Eurasian Union"
By Gleb Bryanski | Reuters – 16 hours ago
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/russias
-putin-says-wants-build-eurasian
-union-222139037.html
_______________________________
Recall Javier Solana's involvement with negotiations of the Russia-EU Summit.
http://www.enpi
-programming.eu/wcm/dmdocuments/
solana%20interview.pdf
_____________________________
Recall also Solana's association with Strobe Talbott and the Brookings Institution.
UKRAINE: WALKING THE LINE BETWEEN THE WEST AND RUSSIA
http://www.brookings.edu/speeches
/2011/0128_ukraine_pifer.aspx
___________________________
KGB defector Anatoliy Golitsyn's book NEW LIES FOR OLD may yet be vindicated
Constance,
From the Catholic perspective evolution/creation, heliocentrism etc are not articles of faith. They do not fall under official teachings on faith and morals.
One of the reasons why the church does not get into debates about homosexuality being nature or nurture, because it's more concerned about the ethics of these acts instead.
The New Age proposal is trying to explain their teachings through a Christian lens.
And that is the problem.
They use scripture to do so and even then they leave out the incarnation.
Savvy
I would also add that Galileo's dispute was with other scientists such as Copernicus, who wanted to present his views as theory, but not fact, because it was not yet proven by the scientific establishment.
So it was a dispute among scientists, rathe than one on religion.
Religion played a part because most scientists at the time were Christian.
A lot of liberal Catholics like to point out Aquinas's views on the death penalty to indicate that the church can change it's views on doctrinal issues, but Aquinas's speciality was meta-physics rather than doctrine.
There is also a certain pattern used in valid development of doctrine.
Savvy
anon 2:17,
Are you saying that Adam and Eve, the first humans according to the Bible, did not have souls since "souls were inserted" into man "at some point in the evolutionary process," presumably later?
_________________________________
Hi Craig,
This is Sister Camille's former student. I will attempt to answer your question using logic. Since Adam and Eve were rational animals (i.e. they possessed free will) before the Fall, they most certainly DID have souls. Morevoer they were, according to the Bible, the first humans God created. I interpret this to mean that Adam and Eve possessed the first two human souls (placed there by God) who also created the brute animals (primitive beings) who preceded them.
As Savvy points out below, however, evolution is not a point of doctrine. So I do not claim to represent the official teachings of the Catholic Church in this matter, although I do not believe what I have written conflicts with any official Catholic teaching.
Apologies Craig, what I meant to write was:
I interpret this to mean that Adam and Eve possessed the first two human souls, which were of course placed there by God who also created the brute animals (primitive beings) who preceded them.
Sister Camille's former student,
OK, so, in your view, were Adam and Eve sub-human or super-human before they received their souls? Did they receive their souls pre- or post-Fall?
Hi Craig,
I said that Adam and Eve were "rational animals...before the fall," so obviously, I believe they received their souls pre-fall. I also believe that they were fully human (i.e., had human souls) at the time of creation, so were never either sub-human or super-human, the only difference between them and us being the absence of original sin.
I don't read the entire creation story or the entire Bible however in a literal way. Since I tend to believe in evolution (although not in a dogmatic way), I would take the view that Adam and Eve were born to parents who were brut animals and not created literally "from dust." But I respect Christians (including some Catholics) who hold a literalist and creationist view of Genesis.
Did Ernie Gruen recant his 233-page "Documentation of the Aberrant Practices of Kansas City Fellowship (Grace Ministries)" -- an expose of Mike Bickle's KCF (pre-IHOP) as has been rumored? Well, he did make some concessions. What were they and why? Here's an attempt to answer these questions including a timeline of events in early 1990:
http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/did-ernie-gruen-recant-his-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-regarding-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/
or
http://tinyurl.com/3zvmopc
Craig
Anon@2:26 p.m.
Genesis does not claim that Adam and Eve were the only first two people around. Take a look at this.
"Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, you have driven me today away from the ground, and from your face I shall be hidden. I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” Then the Lord said to him, “Not so! If anyone kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him. Then Cain went away from the presence of the Lord and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. When he built a city, he called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch."
Where did these people and cities come from?
Genesis is not actually literal.
Savvy
Savvy,
Be careful.
Given that Genesis speaks about the Fall in chapter 3, then I think it's quite correct to infer there were no other humans at that time given that all descendants of Adam and Eve have an inherited fallen nature resulting from the Fall as per othodoxy. If there were others around at the very same time as Adam and Eve they would presumably be without the fallen, human nature which would mean we may well have some humans without a fallen, human nature living today!
Criag,
One day is like a thousand for God.
You are leaving out the angels before the fall. Lucifer rebelled before the as did the other angels who followed him.
Angels were created with free will too.
Savvy
Savvy,
Angels obviously predate man as it was the serpent -- Satan in disguise -- who tempted Eve.
Do you believe there were other men/women alive at the same time as Adam and Eve pre-Fall?
Okay...there was Adam and Eve. Then, they had Cain and Abel. Cain killed Abel. Cain was sent to wander the Earth, but God forbid anyone to harm him. There isn't anyone else there except Adam and Eve. Cain, according to Genesis, chapter 4, ends up living in the land of Nod. How could this be? There should be no one there. Cain eventually had offspring with his wife. What wife? The only woman was Eve, his mother.
It's like there's missing information. Noah is also another story quite incomplete. These were such ancient stories, even for those who wrote down what would eventually become our Old Testament.
I'm not saying this means evolution is true or not. I think we have to be careful filling in the missing information with too much speculation. Honestly, we don't know exactly all the details.
How ever, the creation story, as well as most of the stories in Genesis prior to the call of Abraham, is only a small part. Really, it is the call of Abraham which is the significant story in Genesis. Because it leads to Isaac and Ishmael, then Jacob and Esau, and then finally to the twelve brothers and the events involving Joseph. The Israelites have settled into Egypt...which sets up the events involving Moses, the Plagues on Egypt, the Passover, and the Exodus. And so on and so on...
Constance,
Thank you for the kind words. I read this blog often but rarely feel qualified to contribute. I once looked into the feasability of using evolutionary methods to write computer codes and was astounded at how little it could actually accomplish. I could do more in 5 minutes of intellegent thought than it could be expected to do in thousands of years of guessing. I have read Genesis in a whole different light after that realization.
Ron C
Craig,
I don't personally believe there were other people around pre-fall. But anon @ 9:37 p.m. is right.
Where did all the cities and people come from?
Savvy
Anon @ 9:27,
I largely agree with you. My main point is that there cannot be anyone besides Adam and Eve pre-fall since this is the point in which the human race as a whole fell. Otherwise there would be others who are unfallen (unless there was yet another "Fall"). I agree this does not necessarily preclude others besides Cain and Abel post-fall.
I think we have to be careful filling in the missing information with too much speculation. Honestly, we don't know exactly all the details.
Amen to that!
Genesis 5:3-5 KJV)
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
___________________________________
Note: Adam & Eve first had two sons: Cain and Abel. Later, another son, Seth was born; and then, more children (including daughters). This is how the earth was populated. The laws of incest came later on.
Anon@11:p.m.
Are you saying that God permitted incest?
Savvy
Criag,
Genesis genealogies reveal that Cain and his brother Seth married into the royal house of Nok (Enoch). This would make Nok a contemporary of Adam.
This means there were other people around at the same time.
The story of the fall is not about literal events as much as it's about how mankind fell from the state of innocence and thereby suffering and death entered the world.
Savvy
Savvy,
I think we have to be careful filling in the missing information with too much speculation. Honestly, we don't know exactly all the details.
The laws prohibiting brothers and sisters from marrying each other serve to keep our genetic mistakes (mutations) from matching up and causing severe birth defects. Most of these mutations won't manifest if either the mother or the father have a good copy of the gene. So its important that the mother and father aren't closely related. Since Adam and Eve were created perfect they wouldn't have had genetic defects to pass on to their children so there wouldn't have been the need to prevent brothers from marrying sisters initially. That would have come latter after genetic defects begain to build up. If I remember right weren't Abraham and Sarah brother and sister through one parent?
Ron C
Constance,
This afternoon I just happened to walk into my backyard and found my dwarf purple lilac bush blooming! The strange thing is, it's been sitting highly neglected in its original container for nearly two years due to time contraints. I barely even watered it over the summer! This plant, last glimpse weeks ago was missing most of its leaves and was ready for the garbage can. It has never bloomed before!! I'm amazed something so sickly can even bloom, let alone in Michigan on October 4, 2011. I posted last week that I found my purple hosta and purple clematis blooming again, also. Is anyone else noticing these things happening ?
Do you think the gov't is manipulating the weather to create temperatures compatible with those fools seeking an 'American spring' ?
Or is it possible that the site www.thewarningsecondcoming.com is accurate? See the Oct. 2nd post.
Catherine
Just for the record, the last time the earth saw the sun pulsate and spin was during the 'Miracle oyf Fatima' in 1917. Immediately following that event, many were converted on the spot, including Atheists. Also, many lukewarm Catholics fervently returned to their faith.
Catherine
Oops! That was the 'Miracle of Fatima'
Catherine
GOG and MAGOG WAR NEAR?
Putin calls for 'Eurasian Union' of ex-Soviet republics
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has called for a "Eurasian Union" of former Soviet republics along the lines of the European Union.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15172519
Don't forget the spat between Turkey, a NATO member, and Israel is seething with threats of war too.
And back in Feb 2011, this:
Turkish PM: Turkey, Russia to discuss joint projects in Kyrgyzstan
http://en.trend.az/news/politics/1825673.html
And Today:
Turkish PM: UN Security Council should reform itself
5 October 2011
http://en.trend.az/regions/met/turkey/1940718.html
And
Turkish PM: Security Council should reform itself (UPDATE)
5 October 2011
http://en.trend.az/regions/met/turkey/1940749.html
'Meshech, Tubal, Gomer and Beth Togarmah can be identified with real 8th and 7th century peoples, kings or kingdoms of Anatolia, modern Turkey.'
Block, Daniel I. (1998). The Book of Ezekiel: chapters 25-48. pp.426-427
(pub: Eerdmans.)
Gog and Magog in early eastern Christian and Islamic sources: Sallam's quest ... By E. J. van Donzel, Andrea B. Schmidt, Claudia Ott
http://tinyurl.com/6k7x7r4
Ahmadinejad, Erdogan discuss Middle East developments in New York
25 September 2011
http://en.trend.az/regions/iran/1936439.html
Erdogan: Israel lost Turkey as its ally
5 October 2011, 14:24
http://en.trend.az/regions/met/turkey/1940765.html
Turkey names Israel major threat to region (UPDATE)
5 October 2011, 14:47 (GMT+05:00)
http://en.trend.az/regions/met/turkey/1940791.html
Erdogan warns Israel: Turkey can send warships to east Mediterranean at any time
http://tinyurl.com/5u4n8je
I want to second Pauls
endorsement of Dr. Gerald
Schroeder's work- a brilliant
Astrophysicist (M.I.T.), whose
ideas about Creation are
mind-boggling and inspiring.
In addition to his books, catch his videos on YouTube!
Guillermo
Socialists: ‘Weathervane’ Barroso signals Europe's left turn
Published 05 October 2011
President José Manuel Barroso is a 'weathervane' who is embracing Socialistic positions to tackle the eurozone crisis because he sniffs that "three big EU countries are turning to the left", prominent Socialists said yesterday (4 October).[/quote].
http://tinyurl.com/3qw2hxn
or
http://www.euractiv.com/elections/socialists-weathervane-barroso-signals-europes-left-turn-news-508135
Thanks Guillermo,
I'd like to quote the man, from
"The Science of God" , page 143:
"The making of mankind relates to
the body of Adam. The Hebrew
word "adam" has it's roots in the
Hebrew "adamah" , meaning soil.
The creation of Adam relates to the
human soul, the "neshama". Since
legend tells us that Adam was created
twenty years old, is it possible that
that an Adam-like being lived for those
first nineteen years without the
neshama, and then became human
at twenty with the neshama's creation ?
The Bible teaches that only at age
twenty does one become divinely
responsible for one's actions (Num. 1:3,
14:29; Deut. 1:39 ). It is our neshama,
the spirit of the Eternal placed
within us, not our physical attributes,
that uniquely sets us apart from
all other life, making us moral beings
rather than amoral animals: " 'And
the Eternal God formed the adam dust
from the ground (adamah ) and breathed
into his nostrils the neshama of life and
the adam became a living soul' " (Gen.2:7) .
_________________
It may be a bad idea to single out such
a tiny piece of Dr Schroeder's work,
but suffice to say he believes in the
veracity of the Scriptures very deeply
yet he is a world class scientist who
isn't trying to refute the findings of
paleontology or physics. In fact he
spells out a most beautiful confirmation
of both.
Adam and Eve were only about six
thousand years ago, at about the same
time as the invention of writing.
There was already a fairly well
developed agriculture. Eden was,
after all, a garden, not a jungle or
a wilderness.
Personally, I like to think that God did not tell us "a story." As he had Adam naming the animals before Eve was created from Adam's extracted rib (God wisely ensuring compatible DNA), I like to think that God created Adam as "the first man" and Eve, "the mother of all living," and that there probably were stone age reversions after the fall, the flood, and the scattering at the Tower of Babel.
Looking at the various pyramids scattered about the earth, and the various flood legends even with pagan tribes, I tend to believe that God gave us truthful revelation, as much as we could handle, and call me simple if you like, I'll rely on his word as Truth.
Constance
I will be a guest on Dr. Stanley Monteith's radio program a 7 tonight, Eastern time and 4 p.m. Pacific time. I think it might be on www.themicroeffect.com and possibly on Dr. Monteith's other network, "Liberty Radio."
Constance
Don't remember reading that about Sarah, have to do some refreshing reading on that one.
Constance
Paul,
The exact age of the fossil fuels is a lot older. Adam and Eve were meta-historical. A history beyond recorded history.
Savvy
Genesis 1:26
God said,"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. They shall rule the fish of the sea,the birds of the sky,the cattle, the whole earth, and all the creeping things that creep on earth." 27.And God created man in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female. He created them....and there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
the seventh day he rested. Such is the story of heaven and earth when they were created.
Genesis 2:7 The Lord God formed man from the dust of the earth. He blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being. 8. The Lord God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and placed there the man whom He had formed.
It reads to me as if man was created during the first 7 days male and female, so yes there were humans on the earth.
Then he made Adam with breath of life and put him in Eden.
I don't think God repeats himself.
so it is obviously two separate beings.
YS
Bazy Tankersley - daughter of newspaper mogol and owner of Al-Marah ranch and breeding facility since 1939 used the same breeding proofs on every horse she bought from Arabia , Incest breeding proves or disproves the strain of the animal. If it is of true strain it can be incest breed forever without anomalies, birth defects, but if its breeding had been lied about it showed up in the first incest breeding.
YS
YS,
Most scholars believe that the 2nd Chapter of Genesis is a restating of portions of the 1st.
I am trying to understand the evolution arguments here. I thought it was accepted by almost all Christians that micro-evolution occurs, as when dogs morph over hundreds or thousands of years.
We do not accept Darwinism, but we accept micro-evolution.
Also, I am certain that the Catholic Church DOES accept Sister Camille's view that humans were imbued with what we call human not at the beginning of creation but probably later, but how much later is debated. The world was around for a long time (but how long?) before humans were created. I believe most Protestants also accept this view. the world was vastly different, though, with a canopy of dew rather than water seas, and the fountains of the deep which emerged in the time of the Flood were safely concealed beneath the surface. The world was also smaller, about 25% smaller, etc.
Many changes occurred, some of them violent and some slower.
I too am a fan of astrophysicist Gerald Shroeder.
His book, along with all of my books except two,
were destroyed by the first Los Alamos fire in 2000. We just lived through another fire, as you probably know. Nothing burned in town, but the ash and smoke made many of us sick, and my pastor and his wife looked like they had been to Hell and back, as they had stayed here during the evacuation to succor those who could not leave.
Mariel
I didn't know there was any debate on this.
Another comment, concerning the views of Dowd and his like, Fox, etc. I have just tonight figured out why God let me have a genetic disease which relentlessly crops up no matter how many mantras one repeats nor how many visualizations of genetic change are attempted. This was so I would abandon the thoughts of Fox, Dowd, and company as utter foolishness.
My husband and I were pretty earnest New Agers from about my age of 34 to 46, with me still trying to combine the New Age thoughts with more traditional ones up to my early fifties.
Each time that I saw that the concept that we could evolve into healthier better people if just cut loose from the old religion of Christianity--was not working. I kept at it pretty hard, went even to the pre-levitation courses of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, at which course I did levitate once but became so ill from it that I cried out to God for help....and I never went back.
I believed as Dowd did, more or less, and I would guess both Dowd and I believed in God through our New Age periods, even though we were not accepting all of the Biblical pronouncements. I am probably related to Dowd, as my great grandma was Mamie Dowd and had 12 children, enough to help populate America.
My illness was also to show my husband what could or could not be done through New Age practices. We tried MANY healing modes, and found some of them helped a lot, but the old Adam was still there, and the old Eve. Irv eventually also was born again in a Christian healing service--yup, kept trying to get well, and had some healing miracles--but never a complete healing of what "came with the package" at conception of me. And of course my poor Irv, the healthy, one, is dead several years and whatever concept of "death" Dowd is promoting is, I can bet, not what I think of death, the last enemy. I hate death and will continue to do so.
Mariel
Mariel, thank you so much for sharing your story. Praise be to God that you turned away from darkness!
--Jenna
Steve Jobs has died and it would seem the whole world is eulogizing him. Will anyone comment on the question of his being saved or unsaved? A clip of him speaking in the recent past indicates he was not saved. What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?
AFA is cutting off any programming on its network if ties are not severed with Brannon Howse.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/30/1021672/-Critics-of-dominionism-no-longer-welcome-at-American-Family-Association
Also another good critique of Peterson's THE MESSAGE.
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=7606
AT
Welcome back, Mariel!!!
Also, thank you so much for sharing your story. Your testimony is a chilling warning for anyone who might be tempted to 'experiment' and/or turn away from God and the truth.
To Anonymous @ 8:45 AM:
Re: Steve Jobs
"Will anyone comment on the question of his being saved or unsaved?"
___________________________________
I would never attempt to ASSUME anyone's spiritual fate for the following reason....until each and every person on this earth takes his or her last dying breath, there is always a chance that a person might cry out for forgiveness and redemption in the last minutes, days, or weeks of his or her life.
By the same token, all of those people who we all ASSUME to know are 'saved'....may, in fact, not be.
So, I believe that we should pray for everyone....and just let God handle the rest.
Commenting on Steve Jobs, I have not followed his pronouncements about his spiritual views, but I did read a comment on another site by a Lutheran clergyman who stated that Jobs was a confirmed Lutheran Christian. That is all I know, but I thought this was interesting. A man in his position, who could know many people of all kinds, may very well have come in contact with those who led Him to the Lord.
Steve Jobs:
I have been very close to Apple and don't view Steve Jobs as a practicing Christian, but can't judge his soul.
I have a friend, though, who is a devoted Christian and a close friend of Steve Jobs - I'm sure he has shared his faith with Steve.
Dave in CA
I just heard Ali Velshi on CNN refer to Steve Jobs as having a "messianic" following and another commentator referring to Apple stores as the "church" where Jobs "messianic" followers congregate.
Welcome back Yvonne (YS) and Mariel.
Steve jobs was/or at one time was Buddhist.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/06/the-spiritual-side-of-steve-jobs/
Traversing India sparked Jobs' conversion to Buddhism. Kobun Chino, a monk, presided over his wedding to Laurene Powell, a Stanford University MBA
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/06/the-zen-of-steve-jobs/
The Apple chief, who died Wednesday at 56, had a decades-long relationship with a Zen master, who presided over his wedding and whom Jobs reportedly appointed as a corporate spiritual adviser. Their ties have fed speculation about such a connection.
Greece to Track Citizens Purchases to Solve Tax Evasion Problem
"Surowiecki and others have attributed much of Greece’s financial woes to its huge untaxed shadow economy, which is estimated to be more than a quarter of its GDP"
http://tinyurl.com/67bebjj
or
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2011/10/06/greece-to-track-citizens-purchases-to-solve-tax-evasion-problem/
Thanks to Adamantine at UnsealedProphecy for link.
To Anonymous 8:43
W O W! THANKS FOR INFORMING US OF THIS!
CONSTANCE
TO AT:
Thanks for the heads up on the AFA situation. I see my dear friend and sometimes guest host John Loeffler is also caught in that cross-fire.
Constance
Dear Mariel,
I am always happy to hear from you and your testimony of your New Age days and how you emerged from it with God's grace should be inspiring to all!
Constance
Greece To Track Citizens' Purchases To Solve Tax Evasion Problem
Forbes - 6 hours ago
Some studies suggest that Greece is missing out on $30 billion in taxes, so the cash-strapped country is trying something new: forcing consumers to track ...
Greece To Track Citizens' Purchases To Solve Tax Evasion ... - Forbes
www.forbes.com/.../greece-to-track-citizens-purchases-to-solve-tax-e... - Block all www.forbes.com results
6 hours ago – The Greek government introduces a tax card for citizens to swipe when they make purchases to track their spending for tax purposes.
Get more results from the past 24 hours
Greece To Track Citizens' Purchases To Solve Tax Evasion Problem ...
liveimmigration.com/.../greece-to-track-citizens-purchases-to-solve-ta...
New-fangled government tracking rolled out in Greece The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. Except if you live.
Steve Jobs and his history with Pixar...
It's important to note that the hidden message in all Pixar animated films is a transhumanist theme.
http://tinyurl.com/3kyr7xs
___________________________________
Pixar was founded as the Graphics Group, one third of the Computer Division of Lucasfilm that was launched in 1979 with the hiring of Dr. Ed Catmull from the New York Institute of Technology (NYIT),[4] where he was in charge of the Computer Graphics Lab (CGL). At NYIT, the researchers had pioneered many of the CG techniques and worked on an experimental film called The Works. After moving to Lucasfilm, the team worked on creating the precursor to RenderMan, called Motion Doctor, which allowed traditional cel animators to use computer animation with minimal training.[4]
The team began working on film sequences produced by Lucasfilm or worked collectively with Industrial Light & Magic on special effects.[4] After years of research, and key milestones in films such as the Genesis Effect in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and the Stained Glass Knight in Young Sherlock Holmes,[4] the group, which numbered about 45 individuals back then,[5] was purchased in 1986 by Steve Jobs shortly after he left Apple Computer.[6] Jobs paid $5 million to George Lucas and put $5 million as capital into the company.[7][8][9] A factor contributing to Lucas' sale was an increase in cash flow difficulties following his 1983 divorce, which coincided with the sudden dropoff in revenues from Star Wars licenses following the release of Return of the Jedi and the disastrous box-office performance of Howard the Duck.[4] The newly independent company was headed by Jobs, who served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Pixar. Dr. Edwin Catmull served as Chief Technology Officer[10] and Dr. Alvy Ray Smith as Executive Vice President and Director.[11] In 2001, Edwin Catmull was named President of Pixar.[12]
Initially, Pixar was a high-end computer hardware company whose core product was the Pixar Image Computer, a system primarily sold to government agencies and the medical community. One of the buyers of Pixar Image Computers was Disney Studios, which was using the device as part of their secretive CAPS project, using the machine and custom software to migrate the laborious ink and paint part of the 2-D animation process to a more automated and thus efficient method.
For much more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar
_______________________________
The Corporate 'marriage' of Hollywood & Computer Technology...
On January 26, 2006 Disney bought Pixar in a deal worth $7.4 Billion. Steve Jobs became a Board member of Disney.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24
/news/companies/disney_pixar_deal/
Steve Jobs and his history with Pixar...
It's important to note that the hidden message in all Pixar animated films is a transhumanist theme.
http://tinyurl.com/3kyr7xs
___________________________________
Pixar was founded as the Graphics Group, one third of the Computer Division of Lucasfilm that was launched in 1979 with the hiring of Dr. Ed Catmull from the New York Institute of Technology (NYIT),[4] where he was in charge of the Computer Graphics Lab (CGL). At NYIT, the researchers had pioneered many of the CG techniques and worked on an experimental film called The Works. After moving to Lucasfilm, the team worked on creating the precursor to RenderMan, called Motion Doctor, which allowed traditional cel animators to use computer animation with minimal training.[4]
The team began working on film sequences produced by Lucasfilm or worked collectively with Industrial Light & Magic on special effects.[4] After years of research, and key milestones in films such as the Genesis Effect in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and the Stained Glass Knight in Young Sherlock Holmes,[4] the group, which numbered about 45 individuals back then,[5] was purchased in 1986 by Steve Jobs shortly after he left Apple Computer.[6] Jobs paid $5 million to George Lucas and put $5 million as capital into the company.[7][8][9] A factor contributing to Lucas' sale was an increase in cash flow difficulties following his 1983 divorce, which coincided with the sudden dropoff in revenues from Star Wars licenses following the release of Return of the Jedi and the disastrous box-office performance of Howard the Duck.[4] The newly independent company was headed by Jobs, who served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Pixar. Dr. Edwin Catmull served as Chief Technology Officer[10] and Dr. Alvy Ray Smith as Executive Vice President and Director.[11] In 2001, Edwin Catmull was named President of Pixar.[12]
Initially, Pixar was a high-end computer hardware company whose core product was the Pixar Image Computer, a system primarily sold to government agencies and the medical community. One of the buyers of Pixar Image Computers was Disney Studios, which was using the device as part of their secretive CAPS project, using the machine and custom software to migrate the laborious ink and paint part of the 2-D animation process to a more automated and thus efficient method.
For much more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar
_______________________________
The Corporate 'marriage' of Hollywood & Computer Technology...
On January 26, 2006 Disney bought Pixar in a deal worth $7.4 Billion. Steve Jobs became a Board member of Disney.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24
/news/companies/disney_pixar_deal/
i am not sure I can go through and read all these posts without getting upset. I stand fast to a literal 6 day creation. I encourage everyone to check out www.answersingenesis.org
And it says in Genesis 5:4 that Adam and Eve had other children. I believe there is a Jewish tradition that says Adam and Eve had 33 sons and 23 daughters.
Constance said:
TO AT:
Thanks for the heads up on the AFA situation. I see my dear friend and sometimes guest host John Loeffler is also caught in that cross-fire.
Constance
Connie-
My understanding is that Loeffler has decided to severe his ties with AFA. The other, Todd Friel, has decided to continue with AFA radio.
Dawn,
There wasn't even an earth until
day three of Genesis. What you
are saying is literal, (24 hour days),
didn't even exist until there was
an earth to make for a 24 hour day.
The earth is about 4.5 billion years
old ! Day one alone of Genesis was
probably around 15 billion of our
years ago. What Genesis is calling
"days" were days to God the Eternal,
not mankind/earth days.
In the beginning God said "Let there
be light." That's what almost every
scientist now calls the Big Bang.
The Bible is right. The Bible is perfect.
But the language of Genesis goes
way beyond our little perception.
The language of Genesis is condensed
like the greatest poetry could ever be.
God is trying to explain to us in
terms that we can grasp...
It's not until after Genesis' day six
that the days are 24 hour days.
It wasn't until day six that God made
Adam and Eve.
It wasn't until the fifth day (Gen1:20)
that God made the various animals,
and told them all to be fruitful and
multiply.
Between days five and six is a space
probably 150 thousand years !
Day six was when He created mankind.
First the prototypes; Neandertal, then,
Cro Magnon, then Adam and Eve,
whom He breathed into their
nostrils the breath of His actual
Spirit; whom He made in His own
image. That's when days begin to be
reckoned in 24 hour segments.
That was about 5.7 thousand years
ago.
And God rested on the seventh day.
That's how I believe it must have
happened, anyway.
I, of course could be wrong.
But I believe that God's Word is
perfect, and that science is finally
beginning to catch up.
Actually God existed without time. And many Christian scientist believe that the first thing God did was create time. The first day He created light and darkness, separated the the two and called the light day and the darkness night. That is time!
Also, if you look at the Hebrew word for "day" when used with a number or the words "day and night" always means a literal 24 hour period. Both are used in Genesis.
Additionally, How could each day be called "good" if there already been death?
According to the scriptures, the whole creation groaneth because of sin. I don't believe there was any death to animals or humans until Adam and Eve sinned.
The way we look at any information depends on our world view. When I see scientific information, I have to look at it with a Biblical world view. When someone tells me that the earth is 4.5 million years old, they are trying to take what man said or has come up with and cramming it into the Bible.
I believe that scientist look at how things are happening today and apply it to the past. We can't know for sure how things were before the flood. We don't know what effect the flood had on the age of rocks, earth or fossils.
The gap of time between days creates some of problems. We are told on Day 3. God created the plants, flowers, and trees. How did these things survive millions (or even thousands or hundreds) of years without bees and insects (which would have been created on day 5 with other flying creatures or possibly day 6 with the other creepy crawlies)?
The answer is a lot easier with a straight reading of Genesis.
I believe each day, was a twenty four hour period. When God created the Heavens, he probably created angels (including Lucifer). Sometime after day 6 he and a 1/3 of the angels fell and Satan tempted Eve. After this her and her husband Adam and even the earth (thorns and thistles) were punished. But even after this there was a promise of our Savior in Genesis 3:15.
That is the way I believe it happened and there is nothing a man can say that will convince me otherwise.
To Dawn @ 7:03 PM:
I absolutely agree with you.
I also believe in the literal 6 day creation . . . and that Adam & Eve had many other children.
Steve Jobs and his history with Pixar...
It's important to note that the hidden message in all Pixar animated films is a transhumanist theme.
http://tinyurl.com/3kyr7xs
___________________________________
Pixar was founded as the Graphics Group, one third of the Computer Division of Lucasfilm that was launched in 1979 with the hiring of Dr. Ed Catmull from the New York Institute of Technology (NYIT),[4] where he was in charge of the Computer Graphics Lab (CGL). At NYIT, the researchers had pioneered many of the CG techniques and worked on an experimental film called The Works. After moving to Lucasfilm, the team worked on creating the precursor to RenderMan, called Motion Doctor, which allowed traditional cel animators to use computer animation with minimal training.[4]
The team began working on film sequences produced by Lucasfilm or worked collectively with Industrial Light & Magic on special effects.[4] After years of research, and key milestones in films such as the Genesis Effect in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and the Stained Glass Knight in Young Sherlock Holmes,[4] the group, which numbered about 45 individuals back then,[5] was purchased in 1986 by Steve Jobs shortly after he left Apple Computer.[6] Jobs paid $5 million to George Lucas and put $5 million as capital into the company.[7][8][9] A factor contributing to Lucas' sale was an increase in cash flow difficulties following his 1983 divorce, which coincided with the sudden dropoff in revenues from Star Wars licenses following the release of Return of the Jedi and the disastrous box-office performance of Howard the Duck.[4] The newly independent company was headed by Jobs, who served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Pixar. Dr. Edwin Catmull served as Chief Technology Officer[10] and Dr. Alvy Ray Smith as Executive Vice President and Director.[11] In 2001, Edwin Catmull was named President of Pixar.[12]
Initially, Pixar was a high-end computer hardware company whose core product was the Pixar Image Computer, a system primarily sold to government agencies and the medical community. One of the buyers of Pixar Image Computers was Disney Studios, which was using the device as part of their secretive CAPS project, using the machine and custom software to migrate the laborious ink and paint part of the 2-D animation process to a more automated and thus efficient method.
For much more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar
_______________________________
The Corporate 'marriage' of Hollywood & Computer Technology...
On January 26, 2006 Disney bought Pixar in a deal worth $7.4 Billion. Steve Jobs became a Board member of Disney.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24
/news/companies/disney_pixar_deal/
Steve Jobs and his history with Pixar...
It's important to note that the hidden message in all Pixar animated films is a transhumanist theme.
http://tinyurl.com/3kyr7xs
___________________________________
Pixar was founded as the Graphics Group, one third of the Computer Division of Lucasfilm that was launched in 1979 with the hiring of Dr. Ed Catmull from the New York Institute of Technology (NYIT),[4] where he was in charge of the Computer Graphics Lab (CGL). At NYIT, the researchers had pioneered many of the CG techniques and worked on an experimental film called The Works. After moving to Lucasfilm, the team worked on creating the precursor to RenderMan, called Motion Doctor, which allowed traditional cel animators to use computer animation with minimal training.[4]
The team began working on film sequences produced by Lucasfilm or worked collectively with Industrial Light & Magic on special effects.[4] After years of research, and key milestones in films such as the Genesis Effect in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and the Stained Glass Knight in Young Sherlock Holmes,[4] the group, which numbered about 45 individuals back then,[5] was purchased in 1986 by Steve Jobs shortly after he left Apple Computer.[6] Jobs paid $5 million to George Lucas and put $5 million as capital into the company.[7][8][9] A factor contributing to Lucas' sale was an increase in cash flow difficulties following his 1983 divorce, which coincided with the sudden dropoff in revenues from Star Wars licenses following the release of Return of the Jedi and the disastrous box-office performance of Howard the Duck.[4] The newly independent company was headed by Jobs, who served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Pixar. Dr. Edwin Catmull served as Chief Technology Officer[10] and Dr. Alvy Ray Smith as Executive Vice President and Director.[11] In 2001, Edwin Catmull was named President of Pixar.[12]
Initially, Pixar was a high-end computer hardware company whose core product was the Pixar Image Computer, a system primarily sold to government agencies and the medical community. One of the buyers of Pixar Image Computers was Disney Studios, which was using the device as part of their secretive CAPS project, using the machine and custom software to migrate the laborious ink and paint part of the 2-D animation process to a more automated and thus efficient method.
For much more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar
_______________________________
The Corporate 'marriage' of Hollywood & Computer Technology...
On January 26, 2006 Disney bought Pixar in a deal worth $7.4 Billion. Steve Jobs became a Board member of Disney.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24
/news/companies/disney_pixar_deal/
Dawn,
Thanks for giving the link to Answers in Genesis. They publish a magazine called "Answers" which is very good especially if you are raising children and teenagers. There are several other very good organizations that hold to a literal 7 day creation and have excellent science. The Institute of Creation Research. http://www.icr.org/ Their monthly Acts and Facts newsletter is very good. Dr Steve Austin has done some fascinating work with Mt St Helens and also the Grand Canyon. Creation Ministries International http://creation.com/ publish Creation magazine which is also a great resource. The science is good but written for a lay person. I agree that the days in Genesis are literal days in fact the older I get the better I am at just taking God at his word. The Answers in Genesis web site has a tab called "Get Answers" which gives answers to most of the common question about Genesis. Such as "Where did Cain get his wife?" http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/who-was-cains-wife
Paul I appreciate your statement "But I believe that God's Word is
perfect, and that science is finally
beginning to catch up. " God can use an attitude like that. I encourage you to dig into these sites and see if a literal view doesn't fit you.
Dawn thanks again for taking it straight on.
Ron C
Answers in Genesis also has a museum just South of Cincinnati that is state of the art and a must see if you are in the area. My son and I spent a morning there and that wasn't enough time. It is a long way from Oregon but I want to get the rest of my family back there.
Ron C
I note that three of us here on the blog are fascinated with the works of Gerald Schroeder, Ph.D. in Astrophysics (MIT, Yale). He shows how he thinks time is speeding up. Recent discoveries of the expanding universe show it to be increasing in speed of expansion; this was published just yesterday, and I read it on the web (sorry I don't have the reference).
Mariel
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
Where's Dorothy Margraf gone?
Ron,
Thank you so much for the links. I get Acts and Facts. I have children and AIG is a big part of our home library.
My kids really enjoy Johnathan Park audio series. Lots of good information in a kids radio program.
And I can't forget Dr. Dino.
Thanks again.
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?' at 5.46 am and 6.03 am left a day or two ago.
GOG and MAGOG WAR NEAR?
Putin calls for 'Eurasian Union' of ex-Soviet republics
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has called for a "Eurasian Union" of former Soviet republics along the lines of the European Union.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15172519
Don't forget the spat between Turkey, a NATO member, and Israel is seething with threats of war too.
And back in Feb 2011, this:
Turkish PM: Turkey, Russia to discuss joint projects in Kyrgyzstan
http://en.trend.az/news/politics/1825673.html
And Today:
Turkish PM: UN Security Council should reform itself
5 October 2011
http://en.trend.az/regions/met/turkey/1940718.html
And
Turkish PM: Security Council should reform itself (UPDATE)
5 October 2011
http://en.trend.az/regions/met/turkey/1940749.html
'Meshech, Tubal, Gomer and Beth Togarmah can be identified with real 8th and 7th century peoples, kings or kingdoms of Anatolia, modern Turkey.'
Block, Daniel I. (1998). The Book of Ezekiel: chapters 25-48. pp.426-427
(pub: Eerdmans.)
Gog and Magog in early eastern Christian and Islamic sources: Sallam's quest ... By E. J. van Donzel, Andrea B. Schmidt, Claudia Ott
http://tinyurl.com/6k7x7r4
5:46 AM
Anonymous said...
Ahmadinejad, Erdogan discuss Middle East developments in New York
25 September 2011
http://en.trend.az/regions/iran/1936439.html
Erdogan: Israel lost Turkey as its ally
5 October 2011, 14:24
http://en.trend.az/regions/met/turkey/1940765.html
Turkey names Israel major threat to region (UPDATE)
5 October 2011, 14:47 (GMT+05:00)
http://en.trend.az/regions/met/turkey/1940791.html
Erdogan warns Israel: Turkey can send warships to east Mediterranean at any time
http://tinyurl.com/5u4n8je
6:03 AM
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
This link keeps disappearing ... see it while you can....
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
THIS LINK KEEPS DISAPPEARING, SEE IT WHILE YOU CAN!
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
THIS LINK KEEPS DISAPPEARING, SEE IT WHILE YOU CAN!
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
THIS LINK KEEPS DISAPPEARING, SEE IT WHILE YOU CAN!
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
THIS LINK KEEPS DISAPPEARING, SEE IT WHILE YOU CAN!
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
THIS LINK KEEPS DISAPPEARING, SEE IT WHILE YOU CAN!
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
THIS LINK KEEPS DISAPPEARING, SEE IT WHILE YOU CAN!
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
THIS LINK KEEPS DISAPPEARING, SEE IT WHILE YOU CAN!
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
THIS LINK KEEPS DISAPPEARING, SEE IT WHILE YOU CAN!
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
THIS LINK KEEPS DISAPPEARING, SEE IT WHILE YOU CAN!
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?'
Look, evolutionary scientists are not satanists and they are not dumb. If at least some of what they say is false then God is a capricious practical joker who deliberately puts misleading evidence in His creation. I am a committed Christian and I don't believe that about God. There is more freedom in the Genesis account, certainly in the Hebrew, than some fundamentalists understand or acknowledge. And no, I don't mean that Genesis is 'mythological'.
THIS POST KEEPS DISAPPEARING... SEE IT QUICK!
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING ON LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?' at 5.46 am and 6.03 am left a day or two ago.
GOG and MAGOG WAR NEAR?
'Hybrid' people in the future?
Technology will take on a life of its own...
http://tinyurl.com/3hm2q7a
----
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?' at 5.46 am and 6.03 am left a day or two ago.
GOG and MAGOG WAR NEAR?
....
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Historical Response to Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=kfEOoRiGjj4
Simply insert his name Recep Erdogan into the English/Sumerian Gematria Calculator and it will translate into 666
http://real-world-news.org/numerics/
english-gematria.html
http://real-
world-news.org/
numerics/english-gematria.html
VITAL READING OIN LINK BELOW!
http://www.overcomerstonewbeginnings.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=365.0
http://www.overcomerstonew
beginnings.smfnew.com/
index.php?topic=365.0
AMERICA & ISRAEL IN PROPHECY
Turkey:
A nation of the anti-Christ
http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/turkey.html
http://www.americaisrael
prophecy.com/turkey.html
From where the Antichrist will come.
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/
from_where_the_antichrist_comes.htm
PLEASE REVIEW COMMENTS ON 'GOG AND MAGOG WAR NEAR?' at 5.46 am and 6.03 am left a day or two ago.
GOG and MAGOG WAR NEAR?
I'm listening to some first rate CD's on my car radio while traveling now from Bob Dulkow of WMUZ radio in Detroit. He does a beautiful job of demolishing evolutionary, billions of years old propaganda.
I believe he has a website. Check him out.
Constance
Boy, I can tell you one
link doesn't keep disappearing,
but just keeps appearing and
appearing.
I get it.
You are convinced that Erdogen is the AC.
I would have checked it out if
you had only posted it once or twice...
It is interesting to hear this guys'
words though. Especially considering
that he is of the exact same ilk
as his countrymen of just a couple
generations ago who did all the
horrible things to Armenian Christians
to the tune of around a million murders.
The Armenian Genocide is where we
got the term genocide.
This Erdigan character is describing
exactly what his angry young Moslem
Turks did, only he's flipping it right over
and blaming Israel for all those atrocities.
Atrocities that his country still denies
ever took place: unbelievably inhuman
torture and brutal mass murder
perpetrated on Armenians for the reason
that they were Christian.
It does seem fitting that the Antichrist
could be this animal, but who knows.
The way that he attacks Israel with
accusations that exactly describe what
his own people did, is the definition of
the Primitive character and The
Sociopath.
This guy's a real piece of work.
Constance,
Calling evolutionary science 'propaganda' is not a constructive way to argue. All scientific writing is rhetoric of a sort, but almost all of it is written in good faith.
Most people who criticise the scientific theory of evolution can't even state it accurately.
Oh excuse me, I FORGOT that "evolution" and "eco-logic" were a RELIGION!
Constance
Please forgive my irreverence in the FIRST CHURCH OF DARWINIANISM, but as I have said before, I would have to have unlimited faith in COINCIDENCE before I could even begin to give any credibility to the evolutionists, especially the NATURAL SELECTION from nothing camp. As much persecution as the "conscious evolution" and "Darwin as prophet and saint" camp have given Christians and the Intelligent Design (albeit that some of the 'intelligent design' camp give Lucifer rather than God the credit," I cannot treat their doctrines with a straight face. That millions, nay billions, have been indoctrinated in the lie, does not suddenly raise it to undeserved credibility.
I've watched the twists and turns of this "movement" over the years, including but not limited to their "punctuated equilibrium" theories to explain away the obvious lack of proof of their theories.
Constance
European Prize for Solana and Colombo
published: Friday, 7 October 2011
[see photo caption] Javier Solana pushed for the European Union
Lausanne - In the presence of EU Commission President José Manuel 0Barroso, Javier Solana and Emilio Colombo received on Friday afternoon in Lausanne, the Gold Medal of the Foundation, "Jean Monnet for Europe".
(skip)
He was in many places, such as the Middle East or the Balkans, used for peace.
(skip)
European Union solution
Solana was convinced that the solution could only be called crises, despite European Union. It would have been hard work and conviction to be done. "But the only way we bring more of Europe."
(skip)
Europe must still grow stronger together.
Read more about the subject. (cont'd)[/quote]
* * *
Google translation from German to English.
http://tinyurl.com/42fsjvk
or
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.ch%2FEuropa%2BPreis%2Bfuer%2BSolana%2Bund%2BColombo%2F511686%2Fdetail.htm
* * *
Original:
http://tinyurl.com/3tospdt
or
http://www.news.ch/Europa+Preis+fuer+Solana+und+Colombo/511686/detail.htm
(Google translation from German to English.)
* * *
European Prize for Solana and Colombo
published: Friday, 7 October 2011
[see photo caption] Javier Solana pushed for the European Union
Lausanne - In the presence of EU Commission President José Manuel 0Barroso, Javier Solana and Emilio Colombo received on Friday afternoon in Lausanne, the Gold Medal of the Foundation, "Jean Monnet for Europe".
(skip)
He was in many places, such as the Middle East or the Balkans, used for peace.
(skip)
European Union solution
Solana was convinced that the solution could only be called crises, despite European Union. It would have been hard work and conviction to be done. "But the only way we bring more of Europe."
(skip)
Europe must still grow stronger together.
Read more about the subject. (cont'd)[/quote]
* * *
Google translation from German to English.
http://tinyurl.com/42fsjvk
or
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.ch%2FEuropa%2BPreis%2Bfuer%2BSolana%2Bund%2BColombo%2F511686%2Fdetail.htm
* * *
Original:
http://tinyurl.com/3tospdt
or
http://www.news.ch/Europa+Preis+fuer+Solana+und+Colombo/511686/detail.htm
Constance,
Your rhetoric is no substitute for facts. There is a huge difference between "science hasn't explained..." and "science can't explain..." yet the people who argue against evolution on scientific grounds continually conflate the two. You'd be surprised at the medieval list of what science could supposedly never explain or accomplish.
Also, scientific Darwinism is NOT Social Darwinism (or 'conscious evolution'). The latter is evil, but only the ignorant or the dishonest use the latter to discredit the former.
The main driver of evolution is the environment. Geologists have discovered in the last 20 years that more change occurs in catastrophic ways than in gradual ways as had been believed. So punctuated equilibrium now fits the facts beautifully, rather than being the mere get-out it was when first proposed.
Arguments about 'randomness' too are built on shifting sand. A 'random' process is simply one that nobody believes you can predict, but that statement is as much about human ingenuity as about the process. If it turns out that there is only one way to construct a 10,000-amino acid chain protein then statements that 'it could never have been made at random' become irrelevant. The book "Life's Solution" by Simon Conway Morris is all about evolutionary trajactories at the biochemical level and it shows, for example, that there is only one way to 'do' chlorophyll. Not a bad argument for God IMHO.
"How and when Michael Dowd became a convert to evolution started at a Christian college, Evangel University. Located in Springfield, Missouri, it is the higher educational arm of the Assemblies of God denomination. He says there was a circle of professors who confided their belief in evolution and rejection of Creation. It was there that his intellectual belief in evolution began. His "heart-felt" conversion came from hearing a Catholic speaker."
The big mistake ALL denominations made, was to require college degrees for their ministers etc., instead of just running their own seminaries and maybe sharing across denominational lines with a network of approved seminaries.
I have long ago come to the conclusion, that instead of a college degree being a requirement, it should be viewed as a detriment until the holder thereof proves otherwise.
To Anonymous 4:24
Funny, I thought you had the RHETORIC, not to mention the ILLOGIC!
Constance
Constance,
Perhaps the difference between us is that I have provided some logical arguments and responses.
To Anonymous @ 4:24 PM:
And just what are these 'facts'?
You have yet to present them here.
To Anonymous @2:27am:
You asked me: "And just what are these 'facts'? You have yet to present them here."
I had said (at 4:24pm, to Constance): "Your rhetoric is no substitute for facts."
I was complaining that *she* hadn't presented any scientific arguments against evolution. If evolution is false then it should be possible to do this, but in this thread she has not done anything more than O-no-it-isn't.
In my same post I then set out some arguments of my own, which both she and you have ignored. I don't know why you have, but I suspect that she is confused between scientific Darwinism, which is a scientific theory, and social Darwinism, which is a New Age abuse of scientific Darwinism put to terrible use by people like Hitler. I respect Constance's fine work against New Age. I regret her insults against Darwin and some very fine (secular) scientists who do their research in good faith.
Fox News article.
* * *
Where’s Jimmy? Just Google His Bar Code
By Gene J. Koprowski
Published May 14, 2010
FOXNews.com
Tech enthusiasts and futurists think implantable radio chips, such as those embedded in Amal Graafstra's hands, could mean safety, security and convenience. But civil libertarians are concerned about privacy. Scientists tag animals to monitor their behavior and keep track of endangered species. Now some futurists are asking whether all of mankind should be tagged too. Looking for a loved one? Just Google his microchip. (cont'd)
* * *
Read more:
http://tinyurl.com/24eldsm
or
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/05/14/radio-frequency-rfid-implant/?test=faces#ixzz1aOJqe3pt
* * *
Thanks to Rapture Ready for the link.
Was Egypt the New Age shot heard around the world? The same Global Revolution people the brought about the protests there are the same behind Occupy Wall Street and copycat versions in other cities. This is not just an American thing--it is worldwide.
Who keeps sending my questions and comments about Chrislam to span?
CHRISLAM = New World Order Religion
Look how many individuals and churches are falling for this!
Science recognizes that Cro-Magnon
and Neanderthal, etc are not human.
They are called hominids because they
were similar to, but not, human.
The only problem I see is that current
scientific thinking says that humans
( homo sapiens sapiens ), begin over
a million years ago.
Eventually science will recognize that
true humans only go back about
to the time of the invention of
writing, which is less than 6 thousand
years ago, which was when God
created Adam and Eve out of the
dust of the ground.
Science is currently lacking the
details which will show that humans
could not procreate with, ( are not
the same species as, ) everything
previous to that.
Problem solved.
Next.
A serious question.
What is all the fascination with Solana?
I can understand it from a few years back. But, I think he is a has been. He is certainly not running the world as some seem to think, at least not anymore.
And, he certainly does not fit the criteria to be the ac.
Oh, Anonymous @ 8:29 AM - you don't want to 'go there' (LOL).
I feel confident that you will be hearing from Constance soon enough with her reply.
I've made definite strong links between the Wall Street demonstrations (and now just about everywhere else as well) and the New Age Movement. I'll be talking about that on my internet radio program tonight, THEMICROEFFECT.COM at 7 p.m. Easter time, 4 p.m. Pacific time. Just came out of court. Busy days.
Constance
"The reversal of Zapatero in international politics and economy (already anticipated since Javier Solana assumed the role of counselor near the palace of La Moncloa) has been spectacular."
* * *
http://tinyurl.com/3soc45b
or
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.laopinioncoruna.es%2Fopinion%2F2011%2F10%2F11%2Fllave-mediterraneo%2F540356.html
* * *
Original:
http://tinyurl.com/3eyctl7
or
http://www.laopinioncoruna.es/opinion/2011/10/11/llave-mediterraneo/540356.html
Thanks to Adamantine for link.
On the evolution debate scene. My mistake calling the author of a first rate set of tapes "Bob Kulkow." It is BOB DUTKO and I HIGHLY RECOMMEND his tapes dealing with evolution and related subjects.
http://toptenproofs.com/aboutbob.php
CONSTANCE
Re Bob Dutko's denial of macro-evolution, please Google Tiktaalik.
Re his and a depressingly large number of others' attempts to refute evolution using arguments relating to information: INFORMATION IS NOT A PHYSICAL THING. *Whose* information? About what? People like Dutko and Werner Gitt blind those who don't understand information theory (I do, to postdoctoral level) with science. They don't understand it properly themselves, or they wouldn't say the things they do.
Here is a good explanation by a man that Dutko ducked (no, it's not me!):
http://bigwhiteogre.blogspot.com/2010/07/bob-dutko-on-information-and-evolution.html
Anon 5:48
I really don't know anything about Bob Dutko but I will address some of what you said about information theory. First I'm very wary of words like "never increase complexity" or "always deleterious". I am much more comfortable with looking at probabilities. Some changes have reasonable probabilities of occurring other do not. When you are looking for a needle in a haystack the question is how big is the needle in relation to the haystack, that determines whether it is reasonable to expect to find it. Many of the "benefitial" mutations in life actually involve breaking something, which is actually quite probable using random mutations. Say that you want a dwarf plant all that is needed is to break a growth regulator, zillions of ways to accomplish it. Resistance to pesticides or antibiotics is similar since many pesticides don't directly kill the cell but disable an enzyme in a process which allows a product that is produced naturally by the cell to build up and poison the cell. A mutation can disable the production of the offending product, again its easy to break something, mutations are good at that. The plant doesn't have the benefit of that process and will be less vigorous in some environments but the problem is solved. However there are processes in life that are exceedingly complex and small steps aren't going to get you there like cell replication. The probabilities are such that it becomes unreasonable to believe that it happened by chance and it does become a strong evidence that intelligence was involved in its creation. Think of the criterea that you would apply to determine if something was man made or natural. Ultimately it is a probability determination. Life is very complex, as an engineer it is still beyond the state of the art to create a machine that is capable of recreating itself in any resonable environment yet every cell has the machinery to do just that. We can look at the code for life and make reasonable assumptions about how complex a solution is required for a minimal working solution and calculate the aproximate probabilities. Believe me the first time I checked this out I expected it to work. I wanted it to work. You obviously have the expertise to check this out I challenge you to make some assumptions and run the numbers.
This is a link to fairly technical material that answers most of the questions raised in your link
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/v4/n1/beneficial-mutations-in-bacteria
So in general mutations (even benefitial ones) are going to reduce the capabilities of the organism however I would expect some exceptions just not of anywhere near the complexity needed to drive macro-evolution.
Hope this helps
Ron C
Dear Ron C
This is the Anon to whom you replied.
Information theory is closely related to probability theory - the definition of information entropy, due to Claude Shannon, involves probability.
The same criticism that I apply to information-based arguments against evolution applies to 'too-improbable' proofs, albeit phrased rather differently. Neither probability nor information is a physical object - information about what? probabilities of what? And: whose information? Whose probability? If I have looked at a weather chart showing a belt of cloud approaching from over the horizon then I assign a different probability to rain this afternoon than you.
In all of the anti-evolution improbability arguments, it is assumed that the processes are 'random'. But what if some of the 'possibilities' in those calculations are in fact prohibited by processes about which we are presently ignorant? That raises the probabilities of what actually happened. This is what Simon Conway Morris's book Life's Solution, to which I have referred already on this thread, is about, although not in those terms - he simply calls it 'convergent evolution'.
Building anything on the word 'random' is building on shifting sand. A 'random process' is really a process that we don't believe can be predicted. But that statement is as much about human ingenuity as about the system itself. As we learn more, things once said to be random are no longer called such - Brownian motion, for instance. And computers got banned from casinos because people learned how to use them to predict so-called random processes.
I am not saying that evolution is true in this present post. I *am* saying that information and probability arguments don't disprove it.
Theistic Evolution:
http://toptenproofs.com/article_theisticevolution.php
God used the “dust of the ground” to make man’s body, a remarkable phrase conveying the thought that the smallest particles of which the earth was composed (in modern terminology, the basic chemical elements: nitrogen, oxygen, calcium etc.) were also to be the basic physical elements of the human body. “The first man is of the earth, earthy” (I Corinthians 15:47). This fact is not at all obvious to superficial examination (rocks seem to all appearances to be composed of totally different substances than human flesh), but it has nevertheless been verified by modern science.
Then God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.” This statement may seem at first to be “anthropomorphic”, picturing God as puffing up His cheeks and blowing air into the inert figure He had just molded. Such a notion is quite inadequate, however. Man’s body has been completely formed, equipped with nostrils, lungs, and the entire breathing apparatus, as well as bones and organs and other appurtenances, but was lifeless. It must be energized. The breathing mechanism must be activated, the heart must start to pump and circulate the blood, and all the metabolic functions must begin their operations.
But life can come only from life, and the living God is the only self-existent Being, so it must ultimately come from Him. Especially to stress the unique relationship of human life to the divine life, this Scripture verse (Genesis 2:7) tells us that God Himself directly imparted life and breath to man.
Extract from The Genesis Record, (1976). Henry M. Morris, page 85-6.
As I Corinthians 15:45 says: “The first man Adam was made a living soul…” Not only did man receive his soul directly from God rather than from an animal ancestry, but Adam was the first man. There was no “pre-Adamite man”, as some have suggested.
Extract from The Genesis Record, (1976). Henry M. Morris, page 85-6.
To Anonymous 4:58 PM & 4:59 PM:
AMEN . . .
"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
Genesis 3:19 (KJV)
In the picture of Michael Dowd, he looks happy and confident. I suppose he's relatively young and healthy and endowed with an ability to speak well, so his life is good, he thinks.
So many Christians are now in the opposite condition, worldwide, sick, oppressed, poor.
I think it is time for Jesus to come back and show us that his followers are right. It's been a while. The saints under the throne say "How long, Oh Lord?"
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