While searching for something else, I discovered that the United Nations has an Alliance of Civilizations Room at its Geneva, Switzerland headquarters. It was opened with an acceptance speech by UN Secretary General BanKi Moon last November 18, 2008. He gave thanks to the King and Queen of Spain as well as an ONUART FOUNDATION for their generosity in its establishment. Here's the text of the UN Press release. Looks like given Barack Obama's endorsement, Javier Solana's continuing push, and the "Group of Friends" [fiends?] "implementation plan" that this obvious New World Religion implementation device may well be here to stay awhile. I think Rich Peterson may very well be right when he says, "they're not playing this time . . ."
I can't help but notice that November 18th was very close to that time in November when Javier Solana usually received what Herb Peters referred to as "Javier Solana's November presents." Hmmm????
"Farmer" (Björn Freiberg) had material up about the Alliance of Civilizations Room and the Onuart Foundation in his archives. He noted that Javier Solana's brother Luis had a connection with the Onuart Foundation. You can read Bjorn's work by clicking here. The November 18th remarks by the UN Secretary General are below and can be accessed on the web by clicking here:
Let me pay tribute to Your Majesties King Juan Carlos and Queen Sophia of Spain for this generous gift to the United Nations. This is yet another demonstration of Spain's enduring commitment to the values and the mission of the United Nations.
Let me also thank Prime Minister Zapatero, Foreign Minister Moratinos and the Spanish Government. The close interest you took in the project was instrumental to its success.
I am grateful to the ONUART Foundation and all its patrons and partners for their contributions. ONUART is a valuable example of a public-private partnership. Engaging the private sector is crucial to the success of the United Nations.
To the artist, Miquel Barceló, thank you for putting your unique talents to work in service of the world. The artwork you have created for this room is absolutely innovative and radiant. I have no doubt that people will come to see it whether they have business here or not.
I also thank the President of the Swiss Confederation for being present, and for Switzerland’s firm support for the United Nations in Geneva and across the world. I know you are as thrilled as we are by this new addition to the Palais de Nations, which is an exceptional landmark not only for Geneva, but for the entire international community.
It is very appropriate that this chamber has been named the Human Rights and Alliance of Civilizations Room.
Human rights are a fundamental part of the work of the United Nations and of the Organization’s very identity. Respect for human rights is the indispensable foundation for lasting peace and sustainable development. I am pleased to be inaugurating this room on the eve of the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights. The anniversary is an opportunity to reaffirm our commitment to the principles of the Declaration and to redouble our efforts to make them a reality for all.
The Alliance of Civilizations, for its part, is a very important and practical initiative that is linked intrinsically to human rights, and which has already succeeded in overcoming barriers of distrust. We see, almost on a daily basis, the polarizing impact of prejudice and suspicion among the peoples of the world. Spain and Turkey have played a dynamic role as convenors of the Alliance. I thank Prime Minister Erdoðan of Turkey for his presence today, and for Turkey’s continued strong commitment and leadership of the initiative. And I commend the Group of Friends of the Alliance, many of whom are represented today, for their role in advancing dialogue, mutual respect and the other objectives of the initiative.
I very much look forward to the discussions and decision-making that will take place in this room. The design itself might be thought of as a metaphor for our work. The colours look different depending on where you are seated. That reminds me of the old saying about politics, “where you stand depends on where you sit”.
The correlation to multilateralism is clear. Countries and people have different perspectives on the challenges we face. As they discuss these matters, they can come to appreciate the different dimensions of a problem. And just as we might need to spend some time in this room, and look at the design from different angles in order to see it completely, so must we have a full range of views if we are to properly address global challenges.
And indeed, multilateral solutions are more necessary than ever. From the financial crisis to climate change and the Millennium Development Goals, the time has come to take multilateralism to a new, stronger and more inclusive level.
At the G-20 meeting this past Saturday, I stressed the need for global solidarity. The next month offers two important tests. At the Financing for Development conference in Doha later this month, we have a chance to rejuvenate the global partnership for development. And in December, climate change negotiators meeting in Poland have a chance to take crucial steps towards an agreement on this existential threat.
Like those rooms where leaders gather, this room will be a forum in which all countries, large and small, developed and developing, can air their grievances, highlight their aspirations, and hopefully, in the end, find consensus.
I understand that the construction of this magnificent dome involved techniques that were never used before, and that materials were used in new combinations. We can see the results. They are stunning.
In that spirit, let us bring the same sense of innovation to the work that will now take place here. Let us not settle for the status quo, but instead be visionary, creative and bold.
This Human Rights and Alliance of Civilizations Room is a wonderful addition to the United Nations that will capture the imagination of all who will work here. I again thank everyone involved in bringing it into being”.
For use of the information media; not an official record
83 comments:
Thanks Constance for pointing to it! Here are more links where I had written about it:
http://tinyurl.com/64port
(second part)
The Spanish Parliament had big discussions about it:
http://tinyurl.com/n9zdsy
http://tinyurl.com/6ccgjz
farmer
Anna Lindth Euromed AOC room link CORRECTED:
http://tinyurl.com/lxpd5s
and pictures from the room, see those horns they have, like in an underworld cave:
http://tinyurl.com/aukykj
also Anders had written about it here:
The Multicultural Geneva Temple of the UN Human Rights Council
http://euro-med.dk/?p=4893
Meanwhile, elections swing more conservative
http://tinyurl.com/pmjqs4
This has a feel of swinging to get 'immigration' aspects of Rec 666 implemented...
CURRENT UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY-GENERAL, BAN KI-MOON'S FAMILY BACKGROUND (according to Wikipedia):
Ban Ki-moon met Yoo Soon-taek in 1962 when they were both high school students. Ban was 18 years old, and Yoo Soon-taek was his secondary school's student council president. Ban Ki-moon married Yoo Soon-taek in 1971. They have three adult children: two daughters and a son. His eldest daughter, Seon-yong (born 1972), works for the Korea Foundation in Seoul. His son, Woo-hyun (born 1974) received MBA from Anderson School of Management at University of California, Los Angeles and works for an investment firm in New York.[9] His youngest daughter, Hyun-hee (born 1976), is a field officer for UNICEF in Nairobi, Kenya.[1] After his election as Secretary-General, Ban became an icon in his hometown, where his extended family still resides. Over 50,000 gathered in a soccer stadium in Chungju for celebration of the result. In the months after his appointment, thousands of practitioners of feng shui went to his village to determine how it produced such an important person.[4] Ban himself is not a member of any church or religious group[2] and has declined to expound his beliefs: "Now, as Secretary-General, it will not be appropriate at this time to talk about my own belief in any particular religion or God. So maybe we will have some other time to talk about personal matters."[3] His mother is reportedly Buddhist.[4]
Peacebringer and All:
SPANISH MEDIA REPORTS GOVERNMENT CONSIDERING SUPPRESSION OF RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS
CNA June 5, 2009
http://www.catholicnewsagency.
com/new.php?n=16204
Apparently the government of Spain hasn't learned the lessons of history.
Commentators on Spanish history have posited that the "hostile" approach to the issues of church and state in Spain was a substantial cause of the breakdown of democracy and the onset of the civil war of 1936-1939.
Is this new "hostile" approach to issues of church and state a sign that history is about to be repeated?
Here are more articles on the swing to the "right" in Europe:
CONSERVATIVES SCORE WINS IN EU PARLIAMENT
June 8, 2009 AP
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525344,00.html
_____________________________
EUROPE LEANS RIGHT IN CRISIS; MANY FAVOR CONSERVATIVE PARTIES AHEAD OF EU PARLIAMENT ELECTIONS
Europe leans right in crisis; many favor conservative parties ahead of EU Parliament elections
Europe leaning right ahead of EU Parliament voting...
By MICHAEL WEISSENSTEIN and ROBERT WIELAARD | Associated Press, June 7, 2009
Regarding mystery surrounding David Carradine's death:
URL to article: http://www.infowars.com/author-claims-david-carradines-father-was-ordo-templi-orientis-member/
From telegraph.co.uk (06/08/09)
Pupils to be taught 'how to think' in GCSE-style course
They will be taught the difference between an argument and a rant and how to separate fact from opinion, it was disclosed.
Topics covered in the new course - drawn up by one of Britain's biggest exam boards - will include debate over the existence of UFOs, a belief in the after life and arguments for and against euthanasia.
In the first move of its kind, the "Thinking and Reasoning Skills" qualification will be offered next year following claims from universities and employers that young people lack basic skills.
Last year, the Confederation of British Industry said an obsession with iPods, mobile phones and the internet meant many computer-savvy teenagers were unable to hold proper conversations and write essays.
The OCR exam board said there was "massive" demand from schools for the new course.
But critics say the focus on skills detracts from traditional subjects, such as history, geography and science.
Bernice McCabe, head of fee-paying North London Collegiate School, and director of a charity set up by the Prince of Wales to promote good teaching, said mainstream subjects were no longer "fashionable".
Nick Gibb, the Conservative shadow schools minister, said: "The problem with these skills-based subjects is that pupils can actually miss out on the basic subject knowledge that is particularly important pre-16."
OCR has already introduced an A-level in critical thinking.
Under latest plans, a new "Level 2 qualification" will enable schoolchildren to gain the equivalent of an A* to C grade GCSE in the subject.
According to the course syllabus, the qualification will complement mainstream subjects, by allowing pupils to "develop a conscious, critical awareness of the full range of skills which together constitute higher forms of thinking".
Pupils are expected to develop an understanding of 10 "skills", said OCR, including evaluating evidence, decision making, problem solving and creative thinking. Under the heading of "understanding arguments", students will learn how to recognise "the difference between arguments and rants and lists of information and explanations", as well as "identifying indicator words which signal the presence of reasons and conclusions".
They will complete exercises based on a series of topical issues. Suggested subjects include the rise of teenage violence, drug and alcohol abuse, genetic engineering, euthanasia, global warming and animal experiments.
In one exercise - based on conspiracy theories - students will be asked to debate the existence of UFOs and alien abductions.
The course, which is aimed at under-16s, involves around 60 hours of teaching. Students sit two, hour-long written exams and are awarded a distinction, merit or pass.
An OCR spokesman said: "There is increasing evidence that improving a learner's thinking and reasoning skills has a hugely beneficial effect for their learning in other subjects."
Anonymous 10:59,
If that's true.....YIKES!!!
JD,
Here is some more information on ODESSA if you are still interested in this subject. I found the following article very interesting.
http://www.animalfarm.org/mb/7.shtml
Evangelical Group Banned From Tulsa Housing Projects, Chapter Leader Says
Monday, June 08, 2009
By James Osborne
Print ShareThisA Christian evangelical group that works to improve the lives of underprivileged children says it has been prohibited from conducting Bible study classes in public housing projects in Tulsa, Okla., potentially violating a Supreme Court ruling that upheld religious groups' right to the use of public institutions.
For more than 70 years, the Missouri-based Child Evangelism Fellowship has worked with underprivileged kids, not only to convert them to Christianity, but to improve their lives through education and after-school activities. In one program, fellowship missionaries visit prisons and sign up inmates' children for Bible study programs in an effort to keep them from winding up in jail themselves.
And for more than two decades, the fellowship has hosted a religious-themed summer program in Tulsa's tough housing projects, designed to keep children from falling victim to the temptations of drugs and crime.
But recently, the fellowship was told that it was in violation of a long-standing policy prohibiting religious instruction on public housing property, said Larry Koehn, who heads the organization's chapter in the city.
"They said they have a policy now whereby we can't come in and talk about God or Christ," Koehn said. "We can come in and play games and talk about moral things, but we can't mention the name of God."
see more at
http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525324,00.html
courtesy of the drudge report
I think Pres. Obama can lead by example with the Mideast problems. Why not help some First American tribes organize into their own independent nations, and split famous cities with them, so that they can have them as their capitols, such as Seattle, maybe New York city, etc...
I know the FA's aren't shooting missiles at the other population, or blowing themselves and the innocent bystanders to pieces, so maybe the issue doesn't come up much in the White House, but why not show initiative, Mr. President?
Obama's speech in Cairo -- decoded
::
Open Forums -> Obama Watch
From Northeast Intelligence Network.
Several talk-radio hosts have discussed the overtly pro-Muslim (and even anti-American) remarks in the text of [Alleged] President Barack Obama earlier today in Cairo. But, so far, even some of the heavy-hitters of the talk-radio world have avoided analyzing the "code-speak" contained in his landmark speech. This column seeks to help average Americans to understand the hidden meanings that Obama has conveyed -- on our behalf -- to the Muslim world.
For those that do not already know, there is prophetic meaning to Obama's name. It is especially important to note that his family name means "crooked". Yes, you read correctly. (For the details, click this link.)
http://tomkovach.us/Columns/Crossbow/080723--Obama_name_means.html
Those that use symbols and code-speak to advance hidden agendas utilize a variety of methods. Under the Muslim philosophy of taq'qiyah ("holy" deception), it is quite acceptable for a Muslim to mislead and lie in order to advance the cause of Islam. Some people, especially those with a strong Bible-based faith, have difficulty with the thought of needing to de-code the speech of an elected official. Because those people would not lie, they assume that others believe likewise. Crooked politicians use that situation to their advantage. It is important for all Americans to realize that corrupt officials like to "hide in plain sight" with regard to their subversive agendas.
Location, location, location
Not one of the talk-radio hosts that I heard today mentioned the significance of the location of Obama's speech. Before the Usurper-in-Chief even uttered a word, he was already sending a major signal to the Muslim world. And, that signal spelled danger for Israel. How? Read on.
There is a group that is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. (Actually, there are many Muslim groups with that goal, but one stands out.) That group is called The Muslim Brotherhood. (In Arabic, they are simply called al-ikhwan -- The Brotherhood.) The group was formed in 1928 by Hassan al-Banna, a teacher in Cairo. The school where he taught was Dar al-Ulum. Dar al-Ulum was founded in 1871 to, among other things, counter the growing influence of Christian missionaries from Europe. And, as time went on, Dar al-Ulum was eventually incorporated into Cairo University.
So, by choosing Cairo University as the location for his "apology tour" (a term coined by talk-radio giant Phil Valentine) speech to the Muslim world, there is a tacit endorsement of the Muslim Brotherhood. That would be the signal understood by most Muslims -- especially the heads of states -- around the world. It is important to note that the Muslim Brotherhood made a treaty with Adolf Hitler to assist in destroying as many Jews as possible. (The History Channel has done some fascinating presentations on the link between Hitler and the Muslim Brotherhood. Click the link for one of the videos.)
http://www.amazon.com/Brotherhood-Terror-History-Channel/dp/B000NDIAVA%3FSubscriptionId=10YVF75G6G1XD1C83E82&tag=tvguideonli02-20&linkCode=sp1&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B000NDIAVA
And, lest anyone think that the selection of Cairo University was merely a coincidence, representatives of the Muslim Brotherhood were specifically invited to the speech.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/03/muslim-brotherhood-members-attend-obamas-cairo-speech/
continued
What kind of solution?!
During a recent interview on Israel National Radio, hostess Tamar Yonah told me that the "two-state solution" carries the nickname The Final Solution over there. The fact that Obama's speech was adamant in its support of a "two-state solution" carries even more weight when considered in light of the Muslim Brotherhood connection. And, the principle of taq'qiyah was invoked when Obama used double-speak (in paragraph 32) to make the phony claim that "the Palestinian people" includes both Muslims and Christians. The reality is that the Arabic word for Palestinian is transliterated Filistin. Yes, the same Philistines that are described in the Holy Bible as the ancient enemies of Israel. And, yes, their capital city is still in Gaza.
Many of the Arab Muslims that live in the so-called Palestinian territory are, or have descended from, the societal rejects of the surrounding Muslim countries. After the founding of the State of Israel, those other countries used their national resources to send less-desirable residents to infiltrate Israel and populate it with dissidents and revolutionaries. (This is similar to the 1979 "Mariel boatlift", when Fidel Castro culled felons from prisons and insane from asylums and put them into rafts headed for the Florida coast.) Simultaneously, those countries also persecuted a group of Jews called the Mizrahim (Hebrew for "Easterners") -- those that live in the ancient Jewish enclaves of the various regions of the Diaspora. Some of those enclaves have existed since shortly after the Babylonian sacking of Jerusalem. The news media, the United Nations, and lazy elected officials totally overlook the persecution of the Mizrahim when discussing Middle East policy. While making noise about the plight of a non-existent group (there is no ethnic or linguistic difference between a so-called "Palestinian" and any other Arab in that part of the world), Congressmen ignore the confiscation of family businesses from Mizrahim in various countries.
Obama's advocacy of a "two-state solution" overlooks many factors. Besides the right of Israel to self-govern and to be secure within her borders, there is the clear Biblical mandate to support Israel. (Genesis 12:3) Instead, Obama plainly declared, "It is time for these settlements to stop." The traditional American viewpoint is to avoid meddling in the internal affairs of other countries. This should be doubly true regarding a country where God drew the borders! There is also the common-sense problem that Obama's intentions to support the Philistines goes against the desires of the majority of American citizens. But, why should the desires of the majority matter to a man that occupies the White House in violation of the Constitution?
continued
In the name of ... who?!
In paragraph 41, the alleged president used a linguistic slide into dangerous territory. He referred to a future time when, "... the Holy Land of three great faiths is the place of peace that God intended it to be." The implication of that clause, and of the paragraph that surrounds it, is that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship and pray to the same being. They do not. (And, if they do, then why do the Muslims try to kill their "brothers"? And, why do they describe Christians and Jews as "apes and pigs"?) The idea that Allah could be the same as the God of the Bible is preposterous. The proofs are too numerous for this author to describe in a political column.
But, for those that are familiar with the Holy Bible, consider what Obama said about "peace and security" in the 33rd paragraph of his speech. Compare that to Isaiah 59:8 (remember, his name means "crooked"), Jeremiah 6:14, and 1st Thessalonians 5:3. Perhaps the "sudden destruction" that comes upon those that falsely proclaim peace and safety will be the War of Gog and Magog that was predicted by the Prophet Ezekiel. (For more on that, click this link for a column by Tamar Yonah.)
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/2477
more code-speak
It is important to note that Obama's speech was specifically divided into seven parts, and that he emphasized that number of divisions. In the Muslim faith, there are "seven pillars of Islam". The final division of Obama's speech was about economic prosperity. The final pillar of Islam is jihad ("holy" war). A few years ago, President Mahmoud Ahmedi-Nejad announced the creation of the Iranian Oil Bourse as a means to use the petroleum market to undermine the dollar and destroy the United States. (For a detailed analysis of the concept of economic warfare, see the book The Hundred-Years War, and then consider whether Japan might have been the real winner of World War Two!)
Given that Obama has been announcing for the past several months that he desired to give this speech, can anyone think that he picked this pattern and parallel by mere coincidence? The point becomes stronger when considered alongside the fact that Obama's own White House staff has stated that he is "getting in touch with his inner Muslim", even though Obama claims to be a Christian. (Tellingly, the only mention of Jesus by name was in a fictional story that Jesus joined in prayer with Muhammed. A devout Christian would consider such a story to be strong blasphemy.)
This analysis barely scratches the surface of the hidden messages that Obama conveyed to the Muslim world on behalf of all Americans. But, this brief view should be enough to give even non-religious citizens reason to beware of the Chameleon-in-Chief. Check AIP News frequently to read the decoding of other Obama words and deeds.
Yvonne
I'm a tad concerned... We received a letter from the child we sponsor in India through Compassion International. She said that they visited Auroville "for a spiritual retreat." "Auroville is a place for meditation also a famous tourist place in our city," she wrote.
So I look it up and here is what I found.
http://www.auroville.org/
"Auroville wants to be a universal town where men and women of all countries are able to live in peace and progressive harmony above all creeds, all politics and all nationalities. The purpose of Auroville is to realise human unity."
"Auroville Charter
1. Auroville belongs to nobody in particular. Auroville belongs to humanity as a whole. But to live in Auroville, one must be the willing servitor of the Divine Consciousness."
The Founders
Sri Aurobindo (Aravind Ghose)
http://www.auroville.org/vision/sriauro.htm
http://www.auroville.org/vision/sriauroteaching.htm
and
The Mother (Mirra Alfassa)
http://www.auroville.org/vision/ma.htm
"Humanity is not the last rung of the terrestrial creation. Evolution continues and man will be surpassed. It is for each individual to know whether he wants to participate in the advent of this new species."
"Between humanity and the fully Supramental species there would have to be one or several transitional steps, represented by transitional beings, born in the human way, but able to contact and express the higher consciousness. These transitional beings would prepare the way for the advent of the Supramental Race by establishing suitable conditions."
I understand, of course, that India's predominant religion is Hinduism, but I'm thinking that in my next letter I will need to make sure that the Compassion staff gave "my" child a good explanation of what we, as Christians, believe versus what is being taught at that city!
~HM
Speaking of AoC, it's interesting to see how they are involved in education in Europe and N. Africa:
http://www.emuni.si/en/strani/256/EMUNI-ReS.html
http://tiny.cc/7olrn
Joyce
6/9/2009
Following is a Wall Street Journal review of a new book: "The Evolution of God."
In reading this review please ask yourselves:
1. Does it hint at "New Ageism" as the next new religion?
2. Is New Ageism a logical "successor" to the previous "successors," Christianity and Islam; with each claiming advancements in "universality" over the previous one(s)?
The following copyrighted document is provided under Fair Use principles. Statement at end!
BOOKS JUNE 8, 2009.Belief Without Borders
By GREGG EASTERBROOK
On any list of nonfiction authors that many people may not know but should, Robert Wright would rank high. Among his books are "The Moral Animal" (1994), which argues that natural selection rewards principled behavior and is gradually improving human ethics; and "Nonzero" (2000), which argues that history is moving in a positive direction: Social, political and economic forces, the book said, can operate in a "nonzero" rather than a "zero sum" way. In short, it is not necessary for A to gain at the expense of B; rather, both can gain.
Now Mr. Wright completes the circle by finding roughly the same promising trend in higher affairs. "The Evolution of God" -- really about religion rather than the divine -- supposes that, for all their faults, the monotheistic faiths have prospered because they encourage people to get along.
.
Mr. Wright begins "The Evolution of God" by wondering not whether faiths are true but why they proliferated in early society. His conclusion is that the initial impulse of faith was the self-interest of its administrative class. "Whenever people sense the presence of a puzzling and momentous force," he writes, "they want to believe there is a way to comprehend it. If you can convince them you're the key to comprehension, you can reach great stature." Shamans pretended to understand nature, the leading mystery of ancient days. But the claim was just a way for them to earn a living, Mr. Wright asserts; surely few shamans actually believed that they knew why storms came or disease struck.
What is the contemporary equivalent to the tribal shaman? Stockbrokers. Like shamans, stockbrokers claim the ability to augur hidden forces -- and, like shamans, Mr. Wright says, their advice is almost always worthless. In general, customers (ancient farmers needing rain, modern investors) want to believe that someone has secret, mystic knowledge of a powerful unknown (the natural world, Wall Street). Like investment advisers today, mediums of the far past claimed mystic knowledge and charged for it. In some old tribal cultures, Mr. Wright adds, the word shaman meant roughly "politician." Angling for religious power was thus essentially the same as angling for tribal leadership.
The Evolution of God
By Robert Wright
(Little, Brown, 567 pages, $25.99)
.
This, Mr. Wright infers, is how most religion began. Not exactly a glorious moment of revelation upon a mountaintop. Is the theory persuasive? Mr. Wright is prone to supposing that strong conclusions regarding precivilization can be drawn from the writings of anthropologists. Maybe anthropology is correct at times, but the field is chronically speculative and inferential -- building theories of history on it may be building on sand. For instance, Mr. Wright finds it significant that the earliest Buryat and Inuit cultures, in Siberia and the Arctic, viewed shamans as we now view politicians. But the Inuit also believed that their society was descended from invincible giants. Roll such points together and you have -- I am not sure what.
Continued
"The Evolution of God" (Continued)
The closer Mr. Wright's analysis draws to the Common Era, the more forceful it becomes. The most striking contention in "The Evolution of God" concerns St. Paul, Christianity's first administrative leader. Ancient religions died off, Mr. Wright claims, because they were designed for specific ethnic groups and possessed no appeal outside them. Judaism spoke to those born into the faith, limiting its potential scope. Paul wanted Christianity to become a global faith, appealing to anyone from any land or ethnic group. So he offered something no faith had offered to that point -- universal brotherhood. Did Jesus intend to start a new, broader-based religion? That's hardly clear -- Christ never used the word "Christian" or instructed his disciples to promote a new faith. Paul, by contrast, actively wished to start a cross-borders, proselytizing system of belief. His innovation, according to Mr. Wright, was to realize that the promise of brotherhood could appeal to the whole world -- and as a Roman citizen, Paul thought in whole-world terms.
"The Evolution of God" goes on to analyze the spread of Christianity -- and, later, Islam -- in language that at times strains to sound of the moment: Had Pauline thinking failed, Mr. Wright observes, "another version of Christianity probably would have prevailed, a version featuring the doctrine of interethnic amity, the doctrine that realized the network externalities offered by the open platform of the Roman Empire."
But there is no doubt that Paul's core idea of brotherhood-based faith, intended to overcome delineations between people and groups, was a tremendous success in historical terms. Centuries later, Islam would emphasize some of the same qualities as early Christianity, especially the embrace of anyone from any nation. Broadly, Mr. Wright argues that religions act fierce or nationalistic when adherents feel threatened. But "when a religious group senses an auspicious non-zero-sum relationship with another group, it is more likely to create tolerant scriptures or find tolerance in existing scriptures." As the world grows ever more interdependent, this sentiment is an especially propitious one.
continued
"The Evolution of God" (Concluded)
In the course of a long work ostensibly about God, Mr. Wright never tells the reader whether he believes that a supreme being exists. After extended hemming and hawing on this essential point, he proffers only that a person who accepts God as actual is "not necessarily crazy." Talk about praising with faint damnation! But taken together, "The Moral Animal," "Nonzero" and "The Evolution of God" represent a powerful addition to modern thought. If biology, culture and faith all seek a better world, maybe there is hope.
Mr. Easterbrook is the author of "The Progress Paradox" and the forthcoming "Sonic Boom," about the accelerating pace of economic change.
Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A15
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Galatians 2 (King James Version)
Galatians 2
1Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
3But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
10Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
11But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
HistoryMaker, My wife and I have worked a booth for Compassion for several years and sponsor 3 kids. The other day I was looking through their Calendar and noticed that there were several Quotes in it from Gandhi!! We wrote compassion about it but have not heard back yet. .
Here's an interesting document from 2006 on peace initiatives of the Pathways to Peace organizations. There are some familiar names associated:
http://www.pathwaystopeace.org/documents/ptp_factsheet_2-08.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/l2a59j
Some other links connected with the site:
http://www.pathwaystopeace.org/links.html
It's interesting to see how Shamanism is being so widely promoted as a pathway to peace;
http://www.ehama.org/
http://www.resonance.to/
http://dancehammers.com/
http://www.northerndrum.com/
From the Ehama site, we arrive at this:
http://disciplineofpeace.org/disciplineofpeace/disciplineofpeace.htm
http://tinyurl.com/mytdu3
The Alliance of Civilization is one of numerous organizations that the UN is using to achieve the goal of onenesss.
http://www.summerofpeace.net/index.php
http://www.cultureofpeace.org/
http://www.internationaldayofpeace.org/
Joyce
More:
http://www.peacebuilding.com/
I meant to point out who the partners were in some of these peace initiatives;
http://www.summerofpeace.net/Partner-Organizations.php
Joyce
Any guesses as to who/what will emerge from Barcelo's Sea?
Even Rush Limbaugh is starting to get it...now linking Gorby's praise for Obama to the destruction of the US economy.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=100595
Now, if someone would only publicize these quotes....America might get a clue as to what's really going on....
"Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class - involving high meat intake, use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning, and suburban housing - are not sustainable." - Maurice Strong, Rio Earth Summit
"We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public's imagination... So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts... Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest." - Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor of Climatology, lead author of many IPCC reports
"Unless we announce disasters no one will listen." - Sir John Houghton, first chairman of IPCC
"It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true." - Paul Watson, co-founder of Greenpeace
"We've got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy." - Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation
"No matter if the science of global warming is all phony... climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world." - Christine Stewart, fmr Canadian Minister of the Environment
"The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe." - emeritus professor Daniel Botkin
"We require a central organizing principle - one agreed to voluntarily. Minor shifts in policy, moderate improvement in laws and regulations, rhetoric offered in lieu of genuine change - these are all forms of appeasement, designed to satisfy the public’s desire to believe that sacrifice, struggle and a wrenching transformation of society will not be necessary." - Al Gore, Earth in the Balance
"Isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn't it our responsiblity to bring that about?" - Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme
"A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation." - Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies
quotes continued...
"The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can't let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are." - Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund
"Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control." - Professor Maurice King
"Complex technology of any sort is an assault on human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy, because of what we might do with it." - Amory Lovins, Rocky Mountain Institute
"The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet." - Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation
"Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun." - Prof Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University
"The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil." – Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview
"My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species, returning throughout the world." -Dave Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!
"A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal." - Ted Turner, founder of CNN and major UN donor
"... the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion." - Club of Rome, Goals for Mankind
"If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels." - Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, patron of the World Wildlife Fund
"I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems." - John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal
"The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing." - Christopher Manes, Earth First!
"Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing." - David Brower, first Executive Director of the Sierra Club
Elitist Confab in Montreal: Adapting to a New World Order – Day 1
Sam Labrier
Infowars
June 9, 2009
Some notables from the list of guests this year include:
Madeleine Albright, Former U.S. Secretary of State
Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Managing Director, IMF
Robert Zoellick, President, The World Bank Group
Jean-Claude Trichet, President, European Central Bank
Guillermo Ortiz Martinez, Governor, Central Bank of Mexico
Mark Carney, Governor, Bank of Canada
Alvaro Uribe, President of the Republic of Colombia
Angel Gurria, Secretary-General, OECD
The themes for the next three days are:
Tuesday, June 9: Energy, Health and Sustainable Development
Wednesday, June 10: International Trade and the Americas
Thursday, June 11: International Finance
MONTREAL — Today marked the first day of the four-day Conference of
Montreal, this year entitled “Adapting to a New World Order.” Present
at the conference is a who’s who of international finance and politics
, including the heads of the World Bank and the IMF, Presidents,
Prime Ministers, and a large assortment of other Bilderberg and
NWO elitists. Presiding over the whole affair is none other than
Paul Desmarais Jr., a member of Montreal’s leading Bilderberg family.
This is the fifteenth anniversary of the Conference of Montreal.
The conference is taking place at the Bonaventure Hilton in downtown
Montreal until Thursday.
Yvonne
Constance analyzed Wright tonight on her program. Basically, she said he was a stupid jerk cast in the same probable mode as Karen Armstrong . . .
EJILES-
Yes, I'm now planning to write to Compassion about my concern as well.
Thanks,
~HM
6/10/2009
Obama's stunning offense to Israel and the Jewish people
By Anne Bayefsky
President yet again makes his intentions clear
http://tinyurl.com/n5ya4n
Found this on United Religion Initiatives website:
http://www.linktv.org/globalspirit/ecstasy
Noetic Sciences among others is a sponsor.
Joyce
p.s. she is talking about being demon possessed. This is being promoted as a positive thing..
They try to make it sound so nice...going into trance. This is promoted at many of the sacred music events..
Is. 14:10-15 “They will all respond and say to you,
‘Even you have been made weak as we,
You have become like us. ‘Your apomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.’ “How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth,
You who have weakened the nations! “But you said in your heart, ‘I will aascend to heaven;
I will braise my throne above the stars of God,
And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north. ‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’ “Nevertheless you awill be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.
The man interviewed talks about "ghastly fundamentalism" that says there is only one way to God...
You can see in the film that experience, demonic experience is what is being pushed. If you have these experiences, you become as gods...
How sad that so many substitute these demonic experiences for a relationship with the Living God, who paid for our transgressions and gives us new life in Him, restoring the relationship that was broken in the garden.
This counterfeit is being pushed by all of these organizations connected with UN, URI, and literally thousands of other organizations. You can be a sufi or a bush person or an Indian shaman and "feel divine" you can leave your mind behind and be controlled by spirits.. but who do these spirits come from?
Joyce
The film tries to make the distinction between demonic and divine ecstasy, but everything they are promoting is demonic and contrary to the Word of God.
Drugs are being promoted for "sacred use".
I have to laugh at these false distinctions being made.
"Sacred use" of LSD perhaps??
What incredible deception.. The film is a bit long, but very "illuminating".
Joyce
Joyce and All,
Joyce, regarding your post which is spot on:
Found this on United Religion Initiatives website:
http://www.linktv.org/globalspirit/ecstasy
Noetic Sciences among others is a sponsor.
and here you wrote:
Drugs are being promoted for "sacred use".
I have to laugh at these false distinctions being made.
"Sacred use" of LSD perhaps??
Noetic Sciences does indeed have its fingers in a lot of New Age "pies."
A while back when I was running a search on Ken Blanchard, I came across some information on "Utopian Pharmacology" and posted it.
I think it deserves to be reposted here.
http://www.mdma.net/
MDMA's parent and longer-acting metabolite, 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine [MDA] was first synthesized in 1910 by the same two unsung Merck researchers who went on to create MDMA. MDMA differs structurally from MDA only in its additional methyl group attached to the nitrogen atom. MDA's own empathy-enhancing effect at low doses was explored by Chilean anthropologist-psychiatrist Dr Claudio Naranjo in his private practice. Dr Naranjo discusses MDA-assisted therapy in his classic The Healing Journey (1973). MDA was patented by drug company SmithKline French for use as a tranquilliser (1960) and appetite-inhibitor (1961). SmithKline were interested in MDA's potential as an antidepressant and a slimming-drug. In 1958 human trials were conducted; unfortunately the compound was to prove too psychedelic for licensed clinical use. But MDA was popular as "the love drug" in the counterculture of the 1960s.
DR. CLAUDIO NARANJO
http://www.mdma.net/claudio-naranjo/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudio_Naranjo
Claudio Naranjo is an elder statesman of the U.S. and global Human Potential Movement and the spiritual renaissance of the late 20th Century. He studied medicine, music, and philosophy in Chile, where he also was a resident at the University of Chile Psychiatric Clinic under Matte-Blanco. He taught psychology of art at the Catholic University and social psychiatry at the School of Journalism, University of Chile, and served as Director of the Center for Studies in Medical Anthropology.
After coming to live in the United States, Dr. Naranjo was among the staff of the early stage of Esalen Institute, where he became one of the three successors to Fritz Perls. Later his life's pilgrimage brought him in contact with various spiritual masters including Swami Muktananda, Idries Shah, Oscar Ichazo, Suleyman Dede, H.H. the XVIth Karmapa, and, most decisively, Tarthang Tulku Rinpoche. Also, he was at one time Research Associate at the Institute for Personality Assessment and Research on the U.C. Berkeley Campus and associate of Raymond Cattell at the Institute of Personality and Ability Testing. He has taught comparative religion at the California Institute of Asian Studies, humanistic psychology at the University of California in Santa Cruz, meditation at Nyingma Institute in Berkeley, California, and he was the founder of SAT Institute, an integrative psycho-spiritual school, now headquartered in Spain......read entire article
http://www.gatewaysbooks
andtapes.com/naranjobio.html
cont....
cont...
Check out the following upcoming August 14, 2009 event being sponsored by the Institute of Noetic Sciences and listed on its Institute of Noetic Sciences Events Calendar:
NINE GATES MYSTERY SCHOOL WEEKEND: Explore the Teachings of Ancient Wisdom
Presenter(s): Gay Luce, PhD and Deborah Jones, MA. Summary: Why are the teachings of ancient wisdom schools relevant today? What keys to spiritual development — both practical and magical — are held in the heritage of these schools? This workshop offers our felt responses to these questions. Description: Drawing from multiple spiritual traditions and ancient wisdom teachings, this highly experiential workshop will be an adventure into sacred space. Through rituals, ceremonies, and vigorous spiritual practices you will explore aspects of knowing that surpass the rational and help shift how you live your life......
Dr. Luce also founded SAGE, a revitalization program that became the prototype for work on aging. During her spiritual initiations, she spent a month in India with Gopi Krishna, joined Claudio Naranjo's Seekers of Truth, and worked extensively with Rinpoche Tarthang Tul…
Claudio Naranjo was involved with helping Robert Hoffman to develop the "Hoffman Quadrinity Process."
Among the Quadrinity Process "initiates" is Edgar Mitchell who happens to be a co-founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
Claudio Naranjo was at one time associated with the late Carlos Castaneda and they became close friends.
Under the guise of "anthropologist," Castaneda became a "student" of a so-called shaman named "Don Juan Matos" a shaman in a Native American Yaqui cult and advocated the "sacramental" use of peyote mushrooms which are known to contain the hallucinogenic drug mescalin.
THE DARK LEGACY OF CARLOS CASTANEDA
http://www.salon.com/books/
feature/2007/04/12/castaneda/
THE TANTRIC SHAMANISM OF CLAUDIO NARANJO
...Along with Dick Price, Perls considered Claudio Naranjo to be one of the most gifted
successors. Naranjo is a Chilean-born psychiatrist who made his first trip to the States in
the early 1960s for family medical reasons (his mother needed an eye doctor). While in
Boston, he met the psychologist Frank Barron at Harvard. When Naranjo later won a
Guggenheim fellowship, Barron invited him to Berkeley, where he was introduced to the
anthropologist Michael Harner. Harner was working on the Jivaro Indians of the Amazon
basin and their use of the yage vine as a psychotropic ritual substance. Harner in turn
introduced Naranjo to a young graduate student at UCLA named Carlos Castaneda, who
was working on similar subjects in Mexico, allegedly with a native shaman named Don
Juan. Naranjo and Castaneda would become close friends. Castaneda even claimed that
Don Juan had “smoked” Naranjo, that is, seen him in a vision......
http://tinyurl.com/my23mg
cont....
cont.....
CLAUDIO NARANJO (Autobiography)
In 1969 I was privileged to become a consultant for the Education Policy Research Center, created by Willis Harman at SRI. I was given the assignment of reporting as to what in the domain of psychological and spiritual techniques in vogue was applicable to education, and my report was published as an SRI monograph entitled The Unfoldment of Man. Later, it became my first book, The One Quest. This was also a time when I put in writing some of my experiences in Psychedelic therapy (later published as The Healing Journey), accepted Dr. Robert Ornstein's invitation to co-author a book on meditation, and that of Dr. Ravenna Helson to engage in a qualitative examination of the differences between books representative of the "Matriarchal" and "Patriarchal" factors discovered by her at first in her research on mathematicians and then in the works of authors writing fiction for Children. This lead to my book The Divine Child and the Hero - that would be published at a much later time... read more....
http://tinyurl.com/oo8lmd
Willis Harman from Stanford Research Institute was at one time also a president of the Institute of Noetic Sciences. The IONS funded much of the early studies conducted at Stanford Research Insititute!!!!
WILLIS HARMAN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Harman
Ken Blanchard, who is - or was - apparently involved with Rick Warren is recorded here as sitting on the advisory board of the Hoffman Insitute with Claudio Naranjo.
http://www.crossroad.to/
Quotes/management/blanchard.htm
see also
http://tinyurl.com/3683o4
And lest anyone think I am exclusively hitting on the Protestants,there appear to be a few apostate "Buddhist" Jesuits in the Hoffman "Quadrinity" mix as well. I am still working on getting to the bottom of this one.
ONTOLOGICAL ODD COUPLE
http://tinyurl.com/me2nhk
NEW AGE MIRACLE OR FRAUD?
http://tinyurl.com/l6of4s
Thanks Susanna, for the "Dark Legacy of Carlos Casteneda" link....great article.
ONE line from a former disciple jumped out at me. The description of mind control employed by the Castenada coven:
"In a weird way," she said, "the worst thing that can happen is when you're loved and loved and then abused and abused, and there are no rules, and the rules keep changing, and you can never do right, but then all of a sudden they're kissing you. That's the most crazy-making behavioral modification there is. And that's what Carlos specialized in; he was not stupid."
"We were all supposed to go together, 'make the leap'"
Yeah, make the leap. The abyss awaits.
You've all probably seen how Russia is watching:
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-1/
I am looking at a book in my library, THE EMERGING NETWORK: A SOCIOLOGY OF THE NEW AGE AND NEO-PAGAN MOVEMENTS by Michael York (Rowman & Littlefield, 1995). A quote on page 25 by one in turn quoting one David Miller is revealing of the continuous and growing rage against those of us who hold our Faith:
"Accoring to him [Miller], the 'Gods and Goddesses' are being reborn through the rediscovery of classical Greek myths. These deities 'free one to reaffirm the radical plurality of the self, an affirmation that one has seldome been able to manage BECAUSE OF THE GUILT SURROUNDING MONOTHEISM'S INSIDIOUS IMPLICATIONS."
That and Mr. Wright's bold war on Jewish/Christian monotheism considered socially acceptable enough to be placed as a lead story in the present TIME Magazine, "THE EVOLUTION OF GOD." It looks like at least the propaganda phase ('destructive criticism' per the 1903 Theosophy Congress essays) is DOING ITS WORK so the Theosophical teachings of master races, Aryanism, Lucifer as our benefactor, et al, ad nauseum can advance.
Constance
'
Personally, I believe that the "Allah" referred to by the Muslims is probably the same as the God of the Christians, although probably misread and misinterpreted and false gospel. I sincerely doubt that the New Agers would have the anger against "three dead and gone religions" if they believed the Allah of the Jews was a different entity than the Jehovah of the Jews and Christians. I keep remembering with more than a small degree of concern that the strategy of the New Agers as perhaps most cogently expressed in THE RAYS AND INITIATIONS by Alice Ann Bailey and THE ARMAGEDDON SCRIPT by Peter LeMesurier was to pit the three target groups ('massed forces of the Old Age' as LeMesurier puts it) against each other so all us 'fundamentalists' (Jews, Christians, Moslems) would destroy each other 'in a massive, mutual venting of long pent up agression."
I cannot ignore what has been so clearly expressed as New Age strategy and every time I see extreme Catholic baiting, ridicule of fundamentalist Protestants, and dire warnings against Moslems, I am reminded, rightly or wrongfully of that strategy. Who knows how much of the inspiration for beheadings of 'infidels' has been stirred up by their extremists countering this. I am choosing my words carefully because I am also fully aware of the ALLIANCE OF CIVILIZATIONS propaganda -- and I fear we are playing into their hands as well as driving away those of the Moslems who truly do have a love of God and of truth from hearing and receiving the gospel. I am also fully aware of Bat Yeor's important pivotal work and see those trends, BUT I REALIZE THAT THE FOLKS playing these games also despise the third group of what they term "Peoples of the Book" as much as us.
I am presently not convinced by the arguments that say "Moon God" = Allah = "Moon God."
God created the sun, the stars, the moon, the heavens and the earth . . . That somebody felt love for God which they called "Allah" in the moonlight, particularly to a desert culture that lacked our present conveniences of electric lights and proclaimed God "THE GOD OF THE MOON" does not suggest to me, at least with my present level of knowledge, that they worship the Moon. I would suspect that if you queried the average Moslem, they would call that idolatry. It was said of Mohamed that he was perplexed by the extreme idolatry he saw in his culture . . . only God can ultimately judge his level of true knowledge and motivation, but I do question the "moon god" theory.
Is Islam accurate theology? NO. Is it an aberrant cult of Judaism and Christianity, PROBABLY.
More later,
CONSTANCE
6/10/2009
Constance wrote: "I sincerely doubt that the New Agers would have the anger against "three dead and gone religions" if they believed the Allah of the Jews was a different entity than the Jehovah of the Jews and Christians."
Dear Constance,
I think you meant to write: "I sincerely doubt that the New Agers would have the anger against "three dead and gone religions" if they believed the Allah of the MUSLIMS was a different entity than the Jehovah of the Jews and Christians."
It seems to me that the supercessionists among the established religions are at least as large fomenters of discord as new agers. Those fomenters consider each previous religion "dead and gone;" replaced by a new improved version.
As I understand each religion, in Christianity The Father is the God of Israel and He is identical to Allah of Islam. The nuances that differentiate theologies of the three religions are the Trinity, and who each religion considers as prophets. Of course there are equally potent differences besides theology that zealots use as battering rams but I will not get into them here and now.
BTW, did you ever see my responses to your message on the Lord's Prayer in a previous thread?
Peace and blessing,
Len
Susanna,
Claudio Naranjo is also a promotor of the occult enneagram:
http://www.claudionaranjo.net/audio/homeopathy_english.mp3
http://tiny.cc/9gQKc
He studied under Ichazo, who taught him what he knew and you can read about him here:
http://www.arica.org/system/lineschool.cfm#9HST
http://tiny.cc/XsPJ7
Here is what Naranjo says:
"The accidental death of my only son on the eve of Easter of 1970 seemed to put a full stop to a stage of my life. The next stage began with a pilgrimage under the guidance of a spiritual teacher called Oscar Ichazo and a spiritual retreat that culminated in "a pilgrimage within a pilgrimage", a period of isolation in the desert near Arica, at the northern end of Chile, that turned out to be for me the true beginning of spiritual experience, contemplative life and inner guidance."
Both Catholic priest Richard Rohr and the Emergent Church are involved in the enneagram together. We've seen this before, but I just wanted to make the Naranjo, Ichazo connection to the enneagram.
http://www.cacradicalgrace.org/
The enneagram is also connected to sufism through Gurdieff:
http://www.indranet.com/enneagram.html
http://tiny.cc/uyhba
This fellow is interesting to look at too:
http://www.maclarenfoundation.net/
Joyce
Dear Len:
True Christians believe that the God of Israel is the God of the Christians. An "Evolving God" does not fit, at least into my understanding of Holy Scripure: "I AM THE LORD, I CHANGE NOT . . ."
Constance
Hey all, I haven't posted in a while but this is so urgent, and (in my opinion) stunning, you have to watch this before it's pulled off of youtube. Listen at least 2 or 3 times and try to fill in the word "classified" with what you think he might be saying.
Scary stuff, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone!
woops, I forgot the link!!
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread471621/pg1
Okay, re: the last post, my sister is thinking it may be a spoof, I don't know, the representative's lips are moving in concert with the words.
I just want to put the caution flag out there...I'll post any findings.
Okay, the person who informed me of that youtube, just let me know it was a fake, sorry, it sure looked real to me!
Jaclyn said..."Scary stuff, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone!"
I regret having to post this, but your sister is right. A good reminder about that "Twilight Zone" aspect of the Internet.
It ISN'T obvious at first glance but if the information I've found is accurate, the video is a spoof put together by "The Onion", a Peabody Award-winning American "fake news" organization.
The video made the rounds back in 2007 and was picked up by many Internet sources. I actually tracked down the source of the video by reading further on some of the sites that had carried it.
Here is a link to the website of 'The Onion'. Also a write up at Wiki that describes what they do.
http://tinyurl.com/2zwxk9
http://www.theonion.com/content/
video/proposed_classified_
bill_will
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
The_Onion
Apparently, there is no Rep. John Haller from Pennsylvania or anywhere else.
Also, I didn't notice it at first but in the lower right hand corner of the video, the deceptive logo meant to look like CSPAN is the "onion" symbol/ 'O'SPAN.
This was a great wake-up call and remider for all of us about the subtleness of deception.
"You're traveling through another dimension -- a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind...
a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You've just crossed over into... the Twilight Zone." (THE INTERNET)
:-)
-Rudi
Anonymous 10:13 A.M.
Speaking of "the Abyss," another important thing to note is that Castaneda advocated suicide as a means of entering a higher level of consciousness.
At the heart of Castaneda's movement was a group of intensely devoted women, all of whom were or had been his lovers. They were known as the witches, and two of them, Florinda Donner-Grau and Taisha Abelar, vanished the day after Castaneda's death, along with Cleargreen president Amalia Marquez and Tensegrity instructor Kylie Lundahl. A few weeks later, Patricia Partin, Castaneda's adopted daughter as well as his lover, also disappeared. In February 2006, a skeleton found in Death Valley, Calif., was identified through DNA analysis as Partin's.
Some former Castaneda associates suspect the missing women committed suicide. They cite remarks the women made shortly before vanishing, and point to Castaneda's frequent discussion of suicide in private group meetings. Achieving transcendence through a death nobly chosen, they maintain, had long been central to his teachings. .....
http://www.salon.com/books
/feature/2007/04/12/castaneda/
I have a friend whose spouse followed the Castaneda teachings and, after reading Castaneda's last book, committed suicide.
I forget where I read it, but someone once described Castaneda's shamanism as the worship of ancient Toltec demons.
FLASH!!!!!! TO ALL!!!!!
GUNMAN KILLS SECURITY GUARD AT WASHINGTON D.C. HOLOCAUST MUSEUM
http://www.drudgereport.com/
June 10, 2009
White supremacist James W Von Brunn opens fire at Holocaust museum
http://tinyurl.com/n85fuh
_____________________________
REAL CLEAR POLITICS
REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT:
"THEM JEWS" WON'T LET OBAMA TALK TO ME
According to the Daily Press: Asked if he had spoken to the president, Wright said: "Them Jews aren't going to let him talk to me. I told my baby daughter, that he'll talk to me in five years when he's a lame duck, or in eight years when he's out of office....
http://tinyurl.com/luu593
Joyce,
My friend, the late Carrie Tomko had "Catholic" priest Richard Rohr in her crosshairs.
Here is a link:
http://carrietomko.blogspot.
com/search?q=richard+rohr
Have a good read.
I've been following, as has Dorothy, the Holocaust Museum shooting all afternoon -- I am deeply concerned that given the slant of the coverage of this terrible, terrible event that looks to me as though it may have had some New Age incitement -- literature of the crowd to which the 88 year old assassin belonged referred to MEMES -- a very in New Age Movement theory that ties in nicely with the Alliance of Civilizations theories as well.
Constance
From Infowars (June 9, 2009):
Newsweek: Obama is God and Great Teacher
Newsweek assistant managing editor Evan Thomas tells Chris Matthews that Obama is sort of like a god standing above the country. Just when you thought MSNBC couldn’t get any more slavering and fawning, they pull a hack editor-at-large out of a hat who knocks one out of the ballpark.
Over the weekend on Inside Washington, Thomas said Obama, in regard to the conflict in the Middle East, is a “great teacher” who “stands above everybody.” He did say that “there’s some condescension” in this attitude. “But, he stands above everybody and says, ‘Now, listen. You people have to stop blaming each other unreasonably. You have to get along here and I am going to show you the way.’”
It was classic example of the cult of personality. “A cult of personality arises when a country’s leader uses mass media to create a heroic public image through unquestioning flattery and praise. Cults of personality are often found in dictatorships,” Wikipedia summarizes.
Stalin and Mao were experts at manipulating the cult of personality. Both dictators portrayed themselves as larger than life and endowed with unrivaled wisdom. Thomas is doing the same thing with Obama.
The ultimate result of the dictatorial rule of Stalin and Mao was mass murder on an unprecedented scale.
Can we expect the same from Obama?
Obama's Cairo Speech Creates New Opportunities: Solana
"Javier Solana, the closest thing that the European Union has to a foreign minister, tells journalists he will travel to the Middle East next week in order to use the new momentum in the Middle East peace process signalled by US President Barack Obama's speech in Cairo."
http://tinyurl.com/mq6nc9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtCcmb2O3AA&feature=fvw
JC
Constance, I certainly agree that most Moslems do not worship a "moon god", although their most prominent symbol is a crescent moon. Christians do not worship the cross...I do not know if that is a parallel, but it seems to fit.
A founder of the Illumiati said that the goal of three world wars would be to destroy each group which fought against Lucifer, in turn, and then the weary world would accept Lucifer. One of these wars would be to destroy Christians, one to destroy Jews, one to destroy Muslims. I think that's right; it's so diabolical that I cannot even get it straight. It's beyond the capacity of a human to comprehend.
Mariel
History Maker--
A couple years ago, my sponsored child wrote me that she was learning about the dangers of Global Warming.
Constance,
I just want to respond to what you said here:
"Personally, I believe that the "Allah" referred to by the Muslims is probably the same as the God of the Christians, although probably misread and misinterpreted and false gospel."
Allah was the principal deity among 360 deities on the kabbah in pre-Islamic Saudi Arabia, represented by the crescent moon. While most Muslims would not say that Allah is the moon god, the pre-Islamic origins of their "Allah" are represented by this crescent moon, which happened to be the god of Mohamed's family's tribe. At the time each tribe had personal deities.
Mohamed knew Jews and Catholics and when he had his so-called revelation which contradicts the Bible, he claimed to have an encounter with the Angel Gabriel, only AFTER his wife told him that it wasn't a demon he saw. When he first arrived home from this "angelic visitation" he thought he saw a demon and his wife convinced him otherwise.
The Quran contradicts the Bible, so we can no more call it true than we can Mormonism and in fact Mohamed had a lot in common with Joseph Smith..
Islam believes that Ishmael is the son of promise, not Isaac, Muslims pray facing Mecca, which means their rear ends face Jerusalem. Muslims deny Yeshua was crucified or resurrected. Muslims believe the Bible has been corrupted and think that everyone must come under Islam.
There's much more I could say about this, but what I want to say is that Muslims need their sins forgiven through the atoning work of Yeshua, just like we all do. We should not lose site of this.
Satan has blinded the eyes of the unbelieving so that they cannot see the light of the gospel.. Most Muslims are not fundamentalist, thankfully, and many don't take time to analyze the Quran. Some memorize it but do not study it as such. In places like Indonesia, they memorize it in Arabic and don't even speak the language, so it is strictly rote memorization.
Repeating the line "there is no God but Allah and Mohamed is his prophet" is automatically conversion, and it is also a way of binding oneself to the god of Islam. This is how the religion is so easily spread over the centuries.
Mohamed was probably smart enough to want a monotheistic religion for the Arab people's when he began propagating Islam. He also became very rich by attacking caravans of Jews, when the Jews would not recognize him and join him. The wealth he gained encouraged others to join him in spreading Islam by the sword. Islam was spread by rape, pillage and plunder, and many Jews and Christians converted to save their own lives.
Two men who write about the pre-Islamic origins of Allah are Yoel Natan and Robert Morey.
http://tiny.cc/NMQsz
This is a 6 part lecture by Dr. Robert Morey about Islam:
http://tiny.cc/mwOtN
Much of N. Africa which was part of the Roman Empire were Jews and Christians when Islam came in.
If Islam was true, why do so many Muslims who are having dreams and visions today, come to know Yeshua and say the contrary. We should be listening to their testimonies.
These are considered apostates worthy of death according to Islam.
Satan is the father of lies, the Bible says and there aren't many different truths. There is only one truth. Yeshua is the truth the light and the way and no one comes to the Father but by Him.
Joyce
p.s. I would add that I would not agree 100% with all that these two men say with regards to trinity, Christianity etc.
I would say that God is echad, but that in no way takes anything from their historical arguments about pre-Islamic moon god worship.
Joyce
Susanna,
Yes, Rohr is an interesting character..
You can listen to his thinking in this short video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RNt0MH9dWA
http://tiny.cc/koMtb
At National Pastor conferences everything from Yoga to Labyrinths to Enneagrams are being introduced. If we knew the teachings of Torah we would not be making these errors.
God told Ancient Israel to not serve the nations gods. He gave the teachings and instruction of Torah so that we can walk in holiness. Today because the foundations have been removed from our faith people are trying to fill the void with occultism.
This happened over and over and over again in Ancient Israel. This is why the Northern Kingdom was exiled, and yet those who claim to believe in the God of Israel do not know Him, and do not serve Him in Spirit and in Truth. They are still looking to the gods of the nations to fill the void..
Ex. 23:24 “You shall not worship their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their deeds; bbut you shall utterly overthrow them and break their sacred pillars in pieces.
Maybe we're not talking about the Canaanites or the Jebusites today, but we are talking about paganism and how historically God's people have not worshipped Him.
When the Ancient Israelites worshipped the golden calf, they did not say they were worshipping another God, they said "let's worship YHVH".
Moral of the story is today many think they are worshipping the God of the Bible, but when they engage in pagan practices, they are putting a mask on God, and thus they are not worshipping Him. He is a jealous and holy God and will not share His glory with another..
If we are to worship God in Spirit and in truth, we must know Him according to the Scriptures, starting in Genesis or we risk to put a different face on Him. Sadly, this is the way that deception is infiltrating today. Many are empty because they do not know God and so they are seeking other means to fill the void, experience, occultism, etc.
This void is being filled with mystical esoteric experiences which unchecked will help to usher in a one world religion.
I used to wonder how apostasy would take place, but I don't wonder anymore.. When we don't have the truth of the Scriptures anything is fair game..
I love the story of Josiah. Israel was in apostasy, and and Hilkiah the priest found the Torah scrolls in the Temple.. They were always there, but it was as if they were hidden. When he found them, he repented of all their apostasy and destroyed all the paganism that had entered into the kingdom.
2Kings 23:19 Josiah also removed all the houses of the high places which were ain the cities of Samaria, which the kings of Israel had made provoking 1the LORD; and he did to them 2just as he had done in Bethel.
2Ki 23:23-24 But in the eighteenth year of King Josiah, this Passover was observed to the LORD in Jerusalem. Moreover, Josiah removed the mediums and the spiritists and the teraphim and the idols and all the abominations that were seen in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, that he might confirm the words of the Torah which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.
Again and again, Ancient Israel repeated the same mistakes when they did not hear and obey. Shema o Yisrael, means "hear and do" Israel.
Some food for thought...
Joyce
Israel's Channel One TV reported that Netanyahu was told Tuesday by an "American official" in Jerusalem that, "We are going to change the world. Please, don't interfere."
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/09/world/worldwatch/entry5076128.shtml
THe link is no where on CBS site that I can find.
Joyce, thank you for addressing the true nature and origins of Allah, the capricious one.
Anonymous,
I just want to emphasize, I have nothing against Muslims. They need the Lord. Sadly, they have been blinded to the truth. CNN will not show this, but many Muslims are renouncing Islam today in miraculous ways because God indeed loves them and wants them to come to a saving knowledge of Himself.
This is a testimony of His power to touch those even in some of the most difficult places of the world where the notion of choosing one's faith is nonexistent.
Isn't it interesting that the AoC lie is that we are all okay the way we are, when in reality we are not okay if we don't have Yeshua? What a great way to obscure the message...false peace.
Thankfully, in spite of the all the false message
Joyce
God is at work...( didn't finish my sentence)
Joyce
Thank you Joyce. I agree. Similar is NOT Same. Case in point from a very small sample of what I read at "Islamic Basics" Online Islamic Library (Capital letter emphasis below is mine)
Islam's Allah:
1. Belief in Allah. We Believe that:
1). He is the Lord and Creator of all that there is.
2). He is the True God and All other deities are false.
3). He is One,and has no associates (SON or OTHERWISE).
4). He alone has the knowledge of the Unseen and of the Hour.
5). In His Names and Attribute. 6). HE NEVER CAME DOWN TO EARTH IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM
7.) He is Everlasting, HE DID NOT BEGET NOR WAS HE BEGOTTEN and He is not like anything.
http://tinyurl.com/lcajbp
http://www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=999999&chapter=1
*****************************
"Your God and our God are the same."—The Quran.
****************************
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well,
the devils also believe and tremble."—James 2:19.
**********************************
"There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
1 Timothy 2:5
******************************
"Then Isaiah said, "Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." Isaiah 7: 13-14
"Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, WHICH BEIN INTERPRETED IS, GOD WITH US." Matthew 1:22-23
**********************************************************************
"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, THIS IS MY BELOVED SON,IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED." Matthew 3: 16-17
"While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED; HEAR YE HIM." Matthew 17: 5
"He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, THOU ART MY SON; this day have I begotten thee. " Psalm 2:7
*******************************
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16
-Rudi
Rudi, thanks for the education. What can be said that hasn't already been said? This all makes me think of Judgment, and why Jesus will have to wipe the tears from our eyes, because we should have known, but what of judges that aren’t saved?
You are right to let scripture interpret scripture, and so I’ll have the Apostle Peter say what I want to say:
I Peter 4:12-19
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 but rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the Spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Prov. 11.31
19 Wherefore, let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
“Judas” is with you, the “son of perdition” is a kind of spirit that is not so much interested in righteousness but in gain, self interest, and in pride. Jesus said that many would come in His name and many would call Him Lord, Lord, but when we bow before Him, presumption will be shown for what it is; the Lord will say: “Depart from me that work iniquity.” Everyone that has the hope of Christ “purifies themselves.” Some out there think to be purified means to sacrifice the Jewish people, in fact an 88 year old Nazi tried to get that moved along. In fact we have Farmer linked to a Neo-Nazi like blog that parades itself as “Christian.”
Take heed, God is not mocked, and all that is hidden will be revealed.
"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" Amen Setterman.
"To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One..."
"He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
BUT they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."
Isaiah 40: 25 & 29-31
-Rudi
I'm not sure if there is anything to this but according to Jay Sekulow OIC wants to take control of Temple Mount and has made a proposal to UN:
http://tiny.cc/ZOQk9
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=48524
http://tiny.cc/Q2bAF
It's hard to confirm this, but here's another article from the Arab press:
http://tiny.cc/3AoGh
I'm looking for further verification to see if this is true or not. If it is, it's a big deal both politically and prophetically. The OIC not long ago got UN to pass something calling criticism of Islam a "hate crime" so it would not be too far-fetched to seem them trying to control Temple Mount.
Joyce
Amen to Rudi and Setterman..
Setterman, I presume you are referring to "Johnny's 51 reasons to say No to Global Gov't" ?
I have raised that issue too..
Joyce
I would just like to add to the earlier comments that many Christian and a few Jewish leaders signed the Muslims "Common Word" document which had one part written "In the name of Allah and his servant Mohamed and his servant Jesus". If I can find it I will post it, but what shocked me is heads of denominations, seminaries and other "leaders" signed this document.
http://acommonword.com/lib/downloads/CW-Total-Final-v-12g-Eng-9-10-07.pdf
http://tiny.cc/0Adil
Now one must ask the most obvious question about this so called "love of neighbor". If Islam is so tolerant why do they not let people in their countries who have never chosen their faith decide to follow another faith without persecuting them, imprisoning them, etc. Why is it forbidden in Muslim countries to talk to them about Yeshua? Why are there no churches, synagogues etc, in Saudi Arabia, but places like USA, Europe, Israel are filled with mosques?
Why do they quote from the Bible in their document, but you are not allowed to bring Bibles in their countries? If there was so much respect for the Bible, one would think that it should be allowed to be freely distributed in ALL Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia?
These are all rhetorical questions. Obviously, Islam is not such a tolerant religion and it seeks to impose itself on the world, while trying to give the appearance of great openness.
If most Westerners saw the true face of Islam, they would be ashamed to sign a document like that.
Tell the eight year girl forced to marry a 50 something year old about the "love of neighbor".. Tell the women beaten by the religious police because their hijab has moved and a piece of hair is sticking out, about "love of neighbor".
Tell the former Muslims who have been beaten and sometimes killed because they dared to believe that Yeshua was who He said He was, one with the Father.
Our western leaders want to remake Islam in their image of it, but they are not being honest about the reality of what Islam is and what it does in many countries around the world in places like Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan.. These are not exceptions to the rule. This is Islam.
Muslims need freedom. Sadly many will not hear the good news, that Yeshua has paid for their sins, because their governments will not allow them to hear. Thankfully, through satellite and other modern technologies, and through dreams and visions, there are Muslims coming to know the truth..but no thanks to their corrupt governments or to their religion.
You will know a tree by its fruit.
Joyce
Here's a good one. UNIFIL is helping find Israeli spies in Lebanon. They haven't done a thing to disarm Hizb'allah, but they are going to turn in people for spying for Israel while Nasserellah continues to gain more and more power on Israel's border.
http://tiny.cc/l4BCC
....proving all of my worst suspicions about UNIFIL. There were Lebanese Christians during the war who were hoping that Israel would go in and finish off Hizb'allah because they control the whole country. Syria, helps assassinate any of the government officials that don't side with them like Hariri.
UN is there to make sure that Hizb'allah stays in power, not to protect Israel, or even the Lebanese people.
Joyce
Carter says no peace without Hamas:
http://tiny.cc/qbQTq
Carter is a genius. I wonder when the last time was that he tried to make peace with someone who wouldn't acknowledge his very right to exist. Under Carter we had the Iranian revolution.. Now Obama is sharing Carter's old advisors.
The world would like Israel to give up more land to the very people that want to destroy it.. There isn't another nation in the world that would be expected to do that.
Israel has fewer and fewer in the world who are willing to defend it.
Joyce
6/12/2009
Dear Joyce,
If this is the "Common Word" document you mean there was not a single rabbi's signature:
http://www.acommonword.com/
It seemed to be a Muslim clergy response to the Pope's 2006 speech that caused so much Muslim hostility.
Thanks for your strong support of Israel.
Peace and blessing,
Len
Here is some additional information on Jewish responses to 'A Common Word' including the Joint Communique of the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Chief Rabbis of Israel:
http://tinyurl.com/mfwvbj
http://www.acommonword.com/index.php?lang=en&page=jewish-responses
****************************
-Rudi
6/12/2009
Thanks Rudi.
I did not loook carerfully enough at the various links.
A revered rabbi, Joseph Soloveitchik zt"l, opposed interfaith theological discussions but approved of interfaith discussions to attain positive social ends.
There was a conference on his views in 2003. Here is an article on it:
No to interfaith dialogue
by Jonathan Rosenblum
Baltimore Jewish Times
December 5, 2003
http://www.jewishmediaresources.com/658/no-to-interfaith-dialogue
The issue of interfaith dialogue is one of those hardy perennials. A recent conference sponsored by Boston College’s Center for Christian-Jewish Learning discussed the continued applicability of the ban posed on such dialogue by Rabbi Joseph Ber Soloveitchik, the towering figure of Modern Orthodoxy.
Atarah Twersky, Rabbi Soloveitchik’s daughter, insisted that her father’s views never changed despite the changes in the attitudes of the Catholic Church in the nearly thirty years between the Church encyclical Nostra Aetate and the Rav’s death. While her testimony may be dispositive as to the Rav’s views, it is nevertheless worthwhile revisiting the issue, if only to understand how little such dialogue offers and the dangers it poses.
INTERFAITH DIALOGUE IS POINTLESS because it can change nothing. Halachah, or Jewish law, is the province of those with a full command of the vast halachic literature. There is no more place in the halachic process for the opinions of those lacking such a grounding, be they Jew or gentile, than there is for polling synagogue members to determine halachic practice.
Admittedly, it would be a great boon if Islamic imans could be convinced to stop issuing fatwas condoning suicide bombing. But only the most naïve would expect theological dialogue with rabbis to be the means of persuasion.
True, Catholic doctrine concerning the traditional charge of deicide against Jews has changed greatly in recent decades. (Unlike rabbis, the Pope has the power to enunciate new doctrine.) Yet here too it is doubtful that Catholic doctrine changed because of theological arguments raised by rabbis, whose area of expertise is presumably not the Christian Gospels. Rather it changed because of the Church’s guilt over its complicity in Hitler’s Final Solution and the legacy of Jew hatred based on millennia of Church teachings.
INTERFAITH DIALOGUE IS DANGEROUS because such dialogue inevitably leads to the blurring of Judaism's own message. The nature of dialogue is that one elicits concessions and compromises from the other side only by making one’s own concessions. Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks’ comparison of interfaith dialogue to marriage counseling is highly germane, for in marital counseling both sides will be urged to make concessions.
The controversy surrounding Rabbi Sacks’ The Dignity of Difference provides an object lesson in the dangers inherent in interfaith theological dialogue. Certainly interfaith dialogue has few more enthusiastic proponents than Rabbi Sacks, who boasts of having met secretly with a leading Iranian iman and has expressed his desire to meet with Shiekh Abu Hamzu, of the Finsbury Park mosque, a Taliban sympathizer who admits to sharing the views of Osama bin Laden.
continued
On interfaith discussion continued
The quest for interfaith dialogue led Rabbi Sacks to attempt to construct a general theory of religion in The Dignity of Difference. The result, however, severely distorted central Jewish beliefs, and forced the Rabbi Sacks to rewrite the book after not a single British rabbi across the Orthodox spectrum could be found to defend it.
In the process of constructing his general theory, Rabbi Sacks was forced to deny the absolute uniqueness of the Revelation at Sinai. "G-d has spoken to mankind in many languages: through Judaism to Jews, Christianity to Christians, through Islam to Muslims," he wrote. The price of such ecumenicism was to ignore the Kuzari’s classic distinction between Judaism and any of the other monotheistic faiths: Judaism alone of the monotheistic faiths is based on a revelation to an entire people, not on the claims of a solitary figure. Nor did Rabbi Sacks specify where, when, or how, G-d is supposed to have spoken to Christians or Moslems.
Rabbi Sacks again failed to emphasize Sinai as a unique event in human history when he blithely asserted that no faith is complete and each has some share of the truth. One wonders what a rabbi will tell a young Jew who defends his decision to marry out on the basis of Rabbi Sacks’ book: "What’s the problem? Each of our faiths has only part of the truth. Together we will possess more truth."
"The God of the Hebrew Bible lov[es] each of his children for what they are: Isaac and Ishmael, Jacob and Esau, Israel and the nations . . ." is a lovely, politically correct thought. But it is also hard to reconcile Rabbi Sacks’ words with last week’s Haftorah reading -- "Yet I loved Yaakov; but Esau I hated . . . ‘’(Malachi 1:3) or the Torah’s description of Ishmael as a wild man, "his hand against everyone, and everyone’s hand against him."
"Yitz" Greenberg, another long time enthusiast for interfaith dialogue, went much further towards heresy and blurring the distinctions between Judaism and Christianity. (Rabbi Sacks did eventually release a revised edition absent the offending passages.) According to Greenberg, Jesus was a "failed Messiah," just as Abraham and Moses were also "failures." Both Jews and Christians err in advancing exclusive claims of chosenness, according to Greenberg, because there is enough love in G-d "to choose again and again and again."
FINALLY, INTERFAITH DIALOGUE IS UNNECESSARY because its absence in no way prevents the development of pleasant, fruitful relations between people of different faiths. Religious people do in fact usually find large areas of commonality between them. Orthodox Jews, for instance, experience a much higher comfort level with evangelical Christians than do secular Jews, despite their eschewal of theological dialogue.
The late Cardinal O’Connor would effusively hug Rabbi Moshe Sherer, the long-time head of Agudath Israel of America, whenever they met. Under Rabbi Sherer’s leadership, Catholics and Orthodox Jews worked together productively on a host of issues concerning non-public schooling and public morality, without ever engaging in theological discussions. Indeed avoiding discussion of the chasm of belief between them fostered the ability to maintain a close alliance.
Pointless, dangerous, and unnecessary – those should be enough reasons for avoiding interfaith dialogue.
continued
6/12/2009
Regarding the Common Word:
Jonathan Rosenblum wrote: "Admittedly, it would be a great boon if Islamic imans could be convinced to stop issuing fatwas condoning suicide bombing. But only the most naïve would expect theological dialogue with rabbis to be the means of persuasion."
The Muslim theologians did not issue any fatwas and selectively quoted the Qur'an to present the "common ground" with Christianity and Judaism in a most favorable way. They studiously avoided the uncommon ground.
Yet this itself is positive if it influences other Muslims.
In their response the Joint Communique of the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Chief Rabbis of Israel endorsed the positive tone without getting into theological matters. Their response is commendable and is set forth below:
Communiqué
The Second Meeting of the Chief Rabbis of Israel and the Archbishop of Canterbury
Jerusalem 31st October 2007
The second meeting of the Chief Rabbis of Israel and the Archbishop of Canterbury took place in Jerusalem on 31st October 2007 according to the provisions of the Joint Declaration signed by them on 5th September 2006/12th Elul 5766.
The Most Revd Dr Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury, Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar and Chief Rabbi Yonah Metzger of Israel met to take further their friendly relationship and the mutual interests of the people of their countries.
They welcomed The Rt Revd Michael Jackson, bishop of Clogher and Rabbi Shear Yashuv Cohen, Chief Rabbi of Haifa, as leaders of their delegations to the Anglican Jewish Commission and the Rt Revd Suhail Dawani as the Anglican Bishop in Jerusalem.
"We recall our meeting in Lambeth in September last year and the historic nature of the declaration which we signed together. We reaffirm all that we said in that declaration and have today taken forward our relationship and our work towards greater understanding and mutual respect between our communities.
"Since that meeting there have been further developments in the Holy Land and in the wider region, some positive and some worrying. We are very concerned about the wellbeing of the ever increasing numbers of refugees from Iraq and about the plight of religious minorities, in particular Christian communities in Iraq and elsewhere in the region; we call for the release of hostages and in particular for the release of Ehud Goldwasser, Eldad Regev, and Gilad Shalit. Continuing use of aggressive language by President Ahmedinajad of Iran towards Israel is wholly unacceptable to us. We also note, however, the renewed energy towards a comprehensive peace in the region and the many initiatives, religious and secular, being taken to overcome divisions and to seek reconciliation. In particular in this respect, we commend the work of the many organisations that seek to work together from different perspectives for the common good.
"We are very pleased that the first meeting of the Anglican Jewish Commission of the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Chief Rabbinate of Israel took place in July in a positive atmosphere. The papers provided for that meeting and the discussions that took place on its theme of the sanctity of human life were constructive and insightful. They revealed a depth of mutual agreement, rooted in our shared scriptural heritage, that human life is a gift from God to be valued from conception to the natural ending of life. Between the beginnings of life and its ending, human life is to be nurtured and enabled to flourish and all violence against other human beings is to be deplored as a defacing of the image of God in humanity. We affirm this understanding and wish to encourage Jews and Anglicans around the world to engage together on this basis.
"We have asked the Anglican Jewish Commission to take forward their work at their next meeting and in particular to consider the themes that have been discussed by us today
continued
Comminque continued
"We discussed together some recent developments and initiatives by religious leaders and scholars which aim to strengthen the means by which religious communities can co-operate with each other in the search for a world more attuned to the love of God for creation.
"In particular we welcomed the recent meeting of religious leaders held at the invitation of the St Egidio community when the Archbishop of Canterbury and Chief Rabbi Yonah Metzger were able to meet together with His Holiness Pope Benedict and with the leaders of many other religious traditions. We look forward to additional opportunities that further the important work of universal religious solidarity. Such solidarity requires us to insist that each others' places of worship, and those of other religions, be regarded by all as sacrosanct and therefore inviolate.
"We also noted with gratitude and appreciation, the further work of the Council of Religious Institutions of the Holy Land as well as the Inter-religious Coordinating Council of Israel, an affiliate of the World Council of Religions for Peace.
In this connection the Chief Rabbis of Israel were particularly pleased to know that the Archbishop of Canterbury has accepted the invitation from Religions for Peace to become a Co-President of its World Council and congratulated him on his work for inter religious peace.. We believe that these are very positive developments which are a clear sign of determination to create structures that can advance principled cooperation and moral solidarity among the Christian, Jewish, Islamic and other religious communities.
"In this connection, we noted the recent letter from Muslim scholars and religious leaders to the Christian Churches. The 'Common Word', though addressed to Christian Churches, also makes clear its respect for Hebrew scripture in citing directly from the Book of Deuteronomy and in acknowledging the inspiration that this provided for their understanding of the Quranic teachings on the unity and love of God and of neighbour. In promoting these values we commit ourselves and encourage all religious leaders to ensure that no materials are disseminated by our communities that work against this vision. We have agreed that in responding to the Common Word, it will be important to consider carefully together how the perspectives of Christians and Jews are properly held together.
"At the end of our meeting we give thanks to God for the sacred gift of life and for stirring up in our hearts the desire to see God's will for good fully expressed in human lives. We restate our concern for all hostages and for the many innocent victims of violence; we pray for peace and for peacemakers; we reaffirm our commitment to each other and our firm intent to continue this dialogue on the basis of mutual respect under God. We look forward keenly to our meeting in Lambeth in 2008.
6/12/2009
While the joint communique was proper the statement by Professor Ochs did violate the discoragement of theologicall discussion, as did the 2000 Dabru Emet ad that he refenced.
But he is only a professor.
Mea culpa because I violate the ban on theological discussion on this blog. No excuses!
6/12/2009
The 2008 Lambeth Conferene referred to in the earlier joint communique was strictly a Christian affair.
http://tinyurl.com/nl27ja
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