TECHNOCRACY RISING - THE TECHNOCRATIC, NON-DEMOCRATIC ALL CONTROLLING SIDE OF THE NEW AGE - GLOBALIST "NEW WORLD ORDER"?
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| Patrick M. Wood |
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| Front cover and spine of Patrick M. Wood's important new book, TECHNOCRACY RISING. |
In the early 90s the computer and science magazines told us that human interfaces would be coming and that they would be irresistible when they arrived.
Patrick M. Wood, himself a highly skilled and experienced financial planner and analyst has analyzed the machinations of a critical globalist organization, The Trilateral Commission, for many years. He and Anthony Sutton co-authored Trilaterals Over Washington in the 1990s. He has also carefully studied the long time emerging "Technocracy Movement" and its declarations. It has obvious parallels, if not complete collaboration with the various "Smart" and "Green" movements which plan to move us from a money based economy to an energy based economy. I have written several articles on this in the past that are archived both here and on NewswithViews.com.
Patrick Wood graciously sent me a review copy of his important new book. I note that Carl Teichrib, a fellow researcher I deeply respect, aided in Mr. Wood's research. I respect both men and I am pleased that tomorrow morning, 10 a.m. Eastern time, 7 a.m. Pacific time, Mr. Wood will be my internet radio guest on MY PERSPECTIVE at TMERadio.com. You may listen live, join us in the chatroom and/or call in for the two hour program by calling 208-935-0642.
I did not see mention in this book of Social Credit which in my opinion was another and perhaps even earlier phase of this development, but I plan to ask Mr. Wood for his opinion on that as well.
It should be a fascinating two hours. Join us in the morning, tune in and Stay Tuned!
CONSTANCE
Glad you have gotten him on.
ReplyDeleteSent you several emails about his book.
I had, IMHO, a very good and important program with Patrick Wood. You might want to consider obtaining it from the archives of TMERadio.com. They will probably rerun the program over the weekend, maybe Sunday. We covered much today, but the subject is so vast. He has agreed to return to discuss relationships with transhumanism and the Emerging Church (megachurches) as part of the Technocracy scene.
ReplyDeleteConstance
ReplyDeleteMega Government--Mega Religion
will become truly married is the plan. We have only been witnessing the 'engagement' thus far.....
http://michaelsnyder.mensnewsdaily.com/2015/05/in-september-the-un-launches-a-major-sustainable-development-agenda-for-the-entire-planet/
The information about Technocracy is important because no historians have documented the history of the New Age movement from its solidified beginnings in the early 1900s until its open to the public re-emergency in the late '70s.
ReplyDeleteIn another comment I posted information about a valuable book, Through the '80s, put out by the World Future Society. (1980) Anyone concerned about the New Age movement should go and research this powerful group which continues its growth even now. In that book there is a chapter titled Technocracy As the Highest Stage of Capitalism by W. Warren Wagar, another name New Age historians should be familiar with.
There are no inexpensive copies of the book available though it is cataloged in many university libraries. (See WorldCat.org)
Sections of the book are:
The Trauma of Change with chapters by Toffler, Platt, Asimov, and Nelson who writes about the Exhaustion of Liberalism.
Next, A Global Perspective with chapters by Harman, Amara, Theobald, Henderson, Harris, Martino and Jones.
The chapter Inventorying our Resources follows, as do the chapters titled The International Context, and Economics, Getting Down to Business, and Human Values, Personal, Social, Religions, and Communications: Connecting Ourselves Together, Education: Learning To Meet Tomorrow, and Health: New Approaches To Staying Fit, and Futurism As A Way of Life, and Dreams Into Action: Methods and Real Life Experience, and Conclusion followed by a Postscript by Aurelio Peccei. I have used "and" to separate the chapter titles.
If you want to know why there seems to be no difference between Democrats and Republicans in their long term agendas, you need to know about the political side of the New Age movement. The movement has its feet in everything as seen by looking at the book Whole Again with its 3200+ links or at the website.
Anyone researching New Age should understand the big picture and the various movements before dabbling in one of the thousands of little groups that have bought into the larger picture. Until End Times come, everyone will have to live on this planet
The Catholic Church is really pushing.
ReplyDeleteThe Cannes film festival also promoting Climate Change through a documentary and George Clooney, representing the Hollywood crowd:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_REL_POPE_CLIMATE_CHANGE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-05-24-12-09-46
After the UN meeting here's the next push:
http://www.cop21.gouv.fr/en
Susanna,
ReplyDeleteI suspect many fine Catholics are in mourning over the results of the Irish vote on same-sex marriage. It is very difficult for me to believe this happened in Ireland. It is even sadder for me to contemplate.
What happened? What are your thoughts?
Constance
Anonymous 10:19
ReplyDeleteExcellent information and I thank you -- I think I know who you are!
Constance
I have located the last World Goodwill issue of 1991 which is all about 1992 and what they planned to accomplish with the European Union, the 500th Columbus anniversary, and MOST IMPORTANT the Rio Earth Summit, Earth Charter, Global Warming and the rest of their witches' brew. If you want a pdf copy, email me with "World Goodwill 1992" in the subject line and I'll send it to you. It is a critical piece of evidence.
ReplyDeleteConstance
Yes, I wonder what Susannah makes of this too Constance. (the Irish vote for same sex marriage).
ReplyDeletePersonally, I'm in a state of utter shock. I never ever thought such a thing would come to pass, especially in my lifetime. There are NO words.
I'm in Australia, not Ireland but when Ireland votes such a thing in then how long will it be till we in Australia are forced to do the same? The current PM has staved this off for the past couple of years but he won't be PM forever, unfortunately.
Its all just insanity.
From OZ.
Susanna and OZ
ReplyDeleteI think the problem is the difference between nominal and actual. The former tend to predominate.
A lot of people identify with Roman Catholicism, or for that matter Eastern Orthodoxy, or
various protestant denominations and even the vague "evangelical"
label, for aesthetic and family history and social reasons.
It can be one's identity, without that identity having any non negotiable elements.
For example, this is hypothetical but take a person who is RC because their family was always RC
but it is a matter of identification with an organization and a label. Whatever
theological concerns they have are met by just being in communion
with the pope, however infrequently and howevermuch by what adds up to fraud. "Catholic"
can be a political identity. But
the personal lifestyle? unholy as hell. holiness is for priests and
monastics, and for a brief preparation
time to get communion and that's it. "real life" is entirely different and not seen as supposed to be other than that,
otherwise it is time to consider being a monk or nun, or get labeled a fanatic.
Irish Catholics in the USA for generations had a reputation for unchastity, violence, drunkenness and the police were reknowned for the
rubber hose as whip in interrogation from 1800s to 1960s, but of course a sentimental awe and reverence for "the church."
which added up to cops being quick to cover up if some clergyman or other important respectable in the community
died of a heart attack with a prostitute or his mistress whatever.
and the clergy themselves being concerned for the reputation of the church would cover up things.
While originally they might quietly remove then defrock someone, or just move them elsewhere to the risk of another
congregation, it morphed into open acceptance.
this is why Ireland voted as it did.
From an article at news.yahoo.com
ReplyDelete"The Catholic Church, which teaches that homosexual activity is a sin, saw its dominance of Irish politics collapse after a series of child sex abuse scandals in the early 1990s and limited its 'No' campaigning to sermons to its remaining flock"
Why would Catholic Ireland vote down anything homosexual when its moral guide in Ireland, and world wide, is perverted to the core?
The best thing to do, is to leave the sinking ship behind, and encourage friends, and relatives to do the same. Whether its the Catholic religion, or apostate Protestantism. The true church is NOT a socio-political organization housed in a building. It is those who trust in Christ alone as their Savior. That is the true church. The places were we fellowship, no matter the label, are NOT the church. And, if those religious institutions proclaim exclusivity, or preach falsely, they have nothing to do with real christianity anyway.
Constance 2:23 A.M.
ReplyDeleteI certainly am mourning over the results of the Irish vote on "gay marriage."
It is also difficult for me to believe that this has actually happened in Ireland.
If Ireland loses the faith, then God help us all!!!
Regarding the question as to "What happened?" there are those who believe that all too many bishops have failed to speak out forcefully enough against homosexual activity which the Catholic Church has always regarded as is "intrinsically
immoral."
Part of the reason for this failure to speak out more forcefully ( at least one bishop is described as "being more nuanced" in his position ) allegedly has to do with the undermining of their moral credibility in the wake of the sex abuse scandals.
But that is such a crock! Sex abuse scandal excuse notwithstanding, another not so "nuanced" reason is described in the following article.
IRELAND GAY MARRIAGE REFERENDUM: MEET THE PRIESTS WHO ARE VOTING YES
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/ireland.gay.marriage.referendum.meet.the.priests.who.are.voting.yes/54392.htm
________________________________
Then, of course, there are creatures like pro homosexual activist Fr. Timothy Radcliff who have been allowed to maintain their status as priests and religious in good standing as they peddle their poisonous, heretical, immoral propaganda with almost nary a word from their bishops who are officially charged with the duty to preserve and defend the Catholic Christian faith as handed down to them.
Instead, by their inaction or lukewarm response, these bishops all but rubberstamp the prevailing twaddle about a "more open and welcoming Church"
that is leading people to think that the Church now loves the sin as well as the sinner.
We hear all about a loving and merciful Christ from the pro gay marriage crowd......which is true enough. The only problem is that while cherry picking Gospels for the passages that might be useful, they tend to ignore the passage in the Bible where Jesus tells the sinners He forgives to "go and sin no more."
I see a prophecy coming to pass that was made by the Desert Father St. Anthony the Great.
A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, ‘You are mad; you are not like us.'”
— St. Anthony the Great
OZ and Constance,
ReplyDeleteHere is yet another possible reason reason for the Irish "yes" vote.
Follow the Money: American Entity Funded Irish Same-Sex ‘Marriage’ Campaign
Between 2004 and 2014, U.S.-based Atlantic Philanthropies invested more than $17 million to effectively catalyze the homosexual-rights lobby in Ireland.
by VICTOR GAETAN 05/23/2015
Ireland’s rush to permanently redefine marriage is a startling development for a country that legalized divorce only 20 years ago.
How could the nation that "saved civilization" precipitously decide to make its constitution “gender neutral,” especially in a section devoted to … the family?
Key organizations opposing the radical change believe one answer can be found in the multimillion-dollar external financing program that has quietly poured money into Ireland to fund several homosexual-rights organizations since 2004, especially from U.S.-based Atlantic Philanthropies.
Although not as well known as the Gates Foundation, Atlantic has a similar pedigree: Billionaire businessman Chuck Feeney is giving away the fortune he made as co-founder of DFS, airline duty-free shops.
One of his targets is Ireland, perhaps because his parents were Irish-Catholic Depression-era immigrants to New Jersey, where Feeney was raised....read more...
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/follow-the-money-american-entity-funded-irish-same-sex-marriage-campaign
________________________________
ATLANTIC PHILANTHROPIES
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Philanthropies
________________________________
CHUCK FEENEY
Feeney founded The Atlantic Philanthropies in 1982, and in 1984, having made provision for himself, each of his children and his first wife, he transferred the bulk of his wealth to the foundation.
As of October 2012, Atlantic has made grants totaling more than $6.2 billion since 1982 and plans to spend its remaining $1.3 billion by 2016. The Atlantic Philanthropies grant-making supports health and social projects in Australia, Bermuda, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, South Africa, the United States and Vietnam. It is one of the largest charitable donors in each of the countries in which it operates, and is the single largest funder of ageing and of comprehensive immigration reform in the United States. In December 2011, Atlantic committed a $350 million gift to help build the campus for Cornell University’s new high-tech graduate school on Roosevelt Island in New York City.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Feeney
________________________________
Too bad we don't have the equivalent of a Reece Committee to investigate this tax exempt foundation and its "social projects."
Secretive ex-billionaire Chuck Feeney gives away the last of his fortune to educate Northern Irish children
ReplyDeletehttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/secretive-exbillionaire-chuck-feeney-gives-the-last-of-his-fortune-to-educate-northern-irish-children-9738660.html
American Chuck Feeney the key backer for gay marriage in Ireland
ReplyDeletehttp://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/American-Chuck-Feeney-the-key-backer-for-gay-marriage-in-Ireland.html
"Ireland’s rush to permanently redefine marriage is a startling development for a country that legalized divorce only 20 years ago."
ReplyDeleteirrelevant to any but a very sloppy thinker. Of course a lot of people especially with bad
catechesis and bad exegesis and secular postmodern mentality are sloppy thinkers.
Divorce and remarriage are about heterosexual people. No one would relate the divorce issue to the gay
issue.
"How could the nation that "saved civilization" precipitously decide to make its constitution “gender neutral,” especially in a section devoted to … the family?"
For one thing, it was close to a thousand years ago that they were saving civilization. And for another,
that was a handful of monks doing that copying books. not the average clan politics and warfare crazy irish.
Ireland 'Gay Marriage' Vote: American 'Cultural Imperialism'?
ReplyDeleteBy Tim Graham | May 25, 2015 -
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2015/05/25/ireland-gay-marriage-vote-american-cultural-imperialism
Thanks Susanna.
ReplyDeleteI've just read an interesting report on the BBC about how well the Vatican Bank is performing. I found it interesting that I'd read the report just prior to reading your posts.
"Vatican bank sees a 20-fold increase in earnings
The Vatican bank, officially known as the Institute for Religious Works (IOR), has seen a sharp jump in its profits for 2014.
The bank earned €69.3m (£49m) last year, compared to just €2.9m in 2013, when it was hit by bad investments and clean-up costs.
Last year the management was replaced as part of an overhaul ordered by the Pope to stamp out corruption.
The bank has promised to improve its returns to customers."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32879571
~ K ~
ReplyDeleteIreland gay marriage referendum: Claims of illegal campaign donations from the US
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/ireland.gay.marriage.referendum.claims.of.illegal.campaign.donations.from.the.us/54161.htm
all the campaign donations in the world would have no effect if people were thinking right, and
ReplyDeleteif they weren't when religiously inclined, listening to priests without checking the church rules
and standards not to mention the Bible to see if the priests were
going along with that or with the devil.
contributions pay for propaganda. right thinking people reject such propaganda. So something was wrong
to begin with.
Thanks K
ReplyDeleteThat was an interesting BBC article on the Vatican Bank.
http://www.technollama.co.uk/social-networks-guilt-by-association
ReplyDeletewhatever one thinks of acquiring metadata, or anything else,
ReplyDeletescreaming about use of social networking tools like facebook
as being invasive is absurd, since this is public.
as one facebook post said, a caption put on a photo of Sam
Elliott in a cowboy outfit looking amused/askance at you from
a bar, "you put all your personal drama on Facebook and get mad
when people judge you? you must be a special kind of stupid."
people who yell across a restaurant to each other at different
tables can't complain of eavesdropping.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/the-disheartening-truth-of-a-un-whistleblower/article24603022/
ReplyDeleteA reflection of its creators.
http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/seized-documents-from-osama-bin-ladens-compound-shed-new-light-on-the-al-qaeda-founder/story-fnh81ifq-1227362287499
ReplyDeleteThe bookshelf of ideas that make a terrorist mind. Or books most feared by the Illuminati.
Can the end of the United States be far off?
ReplyDeleteWe have murdered 50 million children, we provide porn to the whole world, we indoctrinate the whole world to our immoral Babylon through Hollywood. Most of our leaders are evil to the core, and our once prosperous cities are becoming war zones!
baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/25/police-26-shootings-9-fatal-over-memorial-day-weekend-in-baltimore/
Remember that Y2K thing and December 21, 2012. Those days came and went and we're still here. How disappointing! Well, it looks like 9/23/2015 is the new end time date. It's the day of the equinox, too. Johnathon Cahn warns about this day. It follows the fourth blood moon, so...yeah. Maybe he's onto something. 9/11 happened in 2001. Seven years later came Obama and the economic collapse. Another seven years will have come to pass on September 23. Yom Kippur, also on that day.
ReplyDeleteAnd, the numbers 9 and 23 keep coming up in movies, T.V. shows, potato chips...sometimes you have to look for it. I just found one in an ink blot. Coincidence? I think not. So, end time fans, maybe 9/23/2015 (23/9/2015 for you Europeans) will be everything that 12/21/2012 was supposed to be and more.
I am being facetious. It's not the numbers, dates, blood moons, equinox...there's so much more that indicates trouble is brewing. We no doubt live in disturbing times. Maybe Johnathon Cahn is right. How do we prepare? Well, it's all in the Bible.
http://www.catholicvoice.co.uk/pinay/
ReplyDeleteWe? I didn't vote for that.
http://www.wnd.com/2009/09/109529/
ReplyDeletehttp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vL6YWCQHiMs
In the video above, "Jesus" he said. "Classified" he said. "New bill of rights, drafted by, classified" he said. I know who classified is, see the link on top, it's going to be the mother of all communist revolutions, said I. I remember Pol Pot, walk, walk, walk, then pick one, mining, farming or death. It's your right to choose. The people have rights. Rights of slaves, said the mother of all harlots.
Here is an interesting overview of Chuck Feeney and his tax exempt foundation:
ReplyDeleteTHE ATLANTIC PHILANTHROPIES: RIGHT - AND WRONG - WAYS TO GIVE AWAY MONEY
http://capitalresearch.org/2011/06/the-atlantic-philanthropies-right-and-wrong-ways-to-give-away-money/
anon 10:26 that video is a parody, notice the onion down at the corner. HOWEVER it is a very good picture of what actually goes on, outrageous stuff getting voted on without study of it, either because it is too lengthy and complex to read in time or because, in some cases, reading it is outright prohibited. One trade deal, I forget if it was NAFTA or something else, was passed after congress was told you shall vote on it without reading it.
ReplyDeleteas for the monstrous events indicated as expected, behavior of the powers that be over the past 20 or 30 years points in that direction.
I think Jade Helm is just practice for 2020. They have to vote for most of the junk or risk the consequences. Things are not the same since Kennedy was shot, sadly. The fascist dreams of Cass and his potus wife are real despite the silly video.
ReplyDeleteIs it perhaps possible that the present Pope Francis sent the Irish a very bad message by implication of his "understanding" statements re gays?
ReplyDeleteConstance,Susanna, and Oz,
ReplyDeleteAs a Catholic, I have heard few sermons on homosexuality, all the preaching is being done by the other side, combined with agressive marketing and lobbying.
It's not enough to have civil marriage, they will not stop until churches comply. In the days to come any Christian, Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox will be subject to fines, our tax exempt status will be taken away, until we are bullied into submission.
They will not leave us alone. If you think this is far-fetched you are either naive or clueless.
The good news is my community of sisters is growing so much that we cannot keep up. God knows his own. May we stand united in Christ in the days to come.
God Bless ,
Sister S
The solution to the legal bullying problem, is to have all denominations incl. RC
ReplyDeleteand if necessary Orthodox revert to a house church style, no incorporation or
formal paperwork that could classify them as being formal organizations, but
operate as social networks who get together at designated houses each others and leaders' houses with appropriate worship help objects (icons, etc.) and be outside
the categorization of oppressible church.
As for the one world system, I think the antichrist or the devil (since the antichrist
is an individual human who doesn't exist yet most likely) will try to accomplish
the antichrist's rule in a context of willingly joined one world country. THIS WOULD
DEFEAT THE PROPHECY IN DANIEL CHAPTER SEVEN, WHICH DOES NOT REMOTELY RESEMBLE SUCH
A MUTUALLY AGREED UNIFICATION OF ALL NATIONS.
But he will FAIL. Because God has already decreed under what conditions he will have
to operate. And it isn't a willingly surrendered sovereignty thing.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't be fighting this. And those who do not believe in
prophecy can be co opted to fight it, by pointing out all the problems that come
from centralization, and lack of borders to cross to escape things gone wrong. And
the economic problems already evident, where it is said that Wall Street sneezed
and Hang Seng gets the flu. This kind of interdependence exists now, and it bad
for everyone. Like disease hitting a genetically homogeneous breed of cattle or
plants we depend on, the food sources can be limited likewise the economic systems
are too tied up with each other and failure in one part can bring down all. THIS
SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED AND SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE. Think quarantine.
that doesn't mean the USA will not cease to exist as we know it. No change into
overt communism, overt Nazism, or more fully developed fascism (which we already
are, being big business running govt.) or whatever would change the issue of the
USA as a national entity or even as a power on the world scene.
Susanna and Constance,
ReplyDeleteFor a feel of what things are like on the ground in Ireland, check out the Mother of God forum. There is a subforum called "Ireland" where these issues are discussed in detail (including an interesting thread titled "Ireland and the New Age"). I would also take a look at the recent articles at Creative Minority Report and Fr Ray Blake's blog, where several Irish people have posted very good commentary.
This referendum was marketed to the Irish as "Vote yes if you care about gay people and want to fight discrimination and oppression." Most "yes" voters reacted in a kneejerk way to this emotional appeal. There is very little awareness of the New Age movement in Ireland. If/when persecution of the Church begins we will then see what the Irish really think about all this. Please pray for Ireland.
I don't see why this emotional appeal should work without mental impairment
ReplyDeleteor pre programming about words "discrimination" oh that's baaad no matter
what you're discriminating against, and "oppression." now, how are you going
to oppose gay marriage, gay total freedom to work and operate anywhere, and
even the gay lifestyle without you are ipso facto discriminating? as for
"oppression," while you might read that as random physical attacks on gays,
the former issue should still bring you up short and get a no vote.
There is a lot of knee jerk thinking on all sides of these disputes, and in
people who are fighting the new age even. Few can separate "spiritual" issues
in advertising for aromatherapy and essential oils from the medical issues for
instance.
The pattern of knee jerk thinking is of limited use. the very fact that "gay"
is in the picture should put everyone on alert.
part of the problem may also be, that when you have friends and/or
ReplyDeleterelatives who are gay, people you love, this may undermine your
good sense. St. Paul writes about "inordinate affection" as an
example of works of the flesh. "inordinate" means not only excessive,
blocking all other priorities, but disordered, inappropriate, etc.
Note that Chuck Feeney is not mentioned in the following article. One would almost think that Atlantic Philanthropies belongs to Gara LaMarche and not Church Feeney. But Gara LaMarche is - or was - president of Feeney's Atlantic Philanthropies was formerly involved with George Soros' Open Society Institute. He was also an ACLU activist.
ReplyDeleteACORN AT THE WHITE HOUSE
November 2, 2009
...Two of ACORN's most important financial backers also visited the White House.
Radical billionaire George Soros, who funds ACORN through his Open Society Institute, visited the White House four times this year.
Soros acolyte Gara LaMarche, president of the Atlantic Philanthropies, dropped by the executive mansion twice. LaMarche's Bermuda-based charity has pumped $25 million into an ACORN front group called Health Care for America Now (HCAN) that is pushing for socialist healthcare.
A post on LaMarche's blog dated Sept. 18, which is after the first round of ACORN undercover sting videos were released, suggests he doesn't give a farthing's cuss about ACORN corruption and criminality.
The attacks on ACORN are part of "a deliberate and sustained strategy to hobble a political movement to improve the lives of poor and working people at a moment when it has finally gained some larger public traction," wrote LaMarche, formerly vice president and director of U.S. Programs at Soros's Open Society Institute.
http://spectator.org/articles/40614/acorn-white-house
___________________________________________________________
GARA LAMARCHE
Gara LaMarche (born August 26, 1954) is the president of the Democracy Alliance, a network of liberal donors who coordinate their political giving. LaMarche previously served as president and CEO of The Atlantic Philanthropies. Prior to joining the Atlantic Philanthropies, he served as vice president and director of U.S. programs for The Open Society Institute. In his tenure at the Atlantic Philanthropies, LaMarche led the foundation’s shift to a social justice approach to grant-making.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gara_LaMarche
____________________________________________________________________
cont...
cont...
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the following article, I am beginning to think that LaMarche might be a little nervous about the possibility that a startling number of mega-rich CONSERVATIVES (i.e. Heritage Foundation) are sitting on an awful lot of cash just waiting to be spent on THEIR little "social projects" that might not be to Soros' liking - or Feeney's!
Since people like LaMarche have decided that it is now OK for TAX EXEMPT philanthropies to wax political and use their cash to influence various referendums such as the gay marriage referendum in Ireland while disguising it as "social justice," then they need to realize that "political" cuts both ways......especially since "social justice" means something quite different for political conservatives and conservative Christians than it does for radical liberals and socialists.
Gara LaMarche: A Practitioner, and Critic, of Big Philanthropy Embraces the Irony ( a.k.a. hypocrisy???)
AuthorDavid Callahan
http://www.insidephilanthropy.com/home/2014/12/4/gara-lamarche-a-practitioner-and-critic-of-big-philanthropy.html
___________________________________________________________________
Remember the video of Norman Dodd's talk in which he described "un-American activities as "bringing about change through unconstitutional means."
Norman dodd was the chief researcher for the Reece Committee which was a branch of the House Un-American Activities Committee. The purpose of the Reece Committee was to investigate tax exempt foundations which were suspected of using their tax exempt wealth to promote communism. Among the tax exempt foundations under investigation were the Ford Foundation ( which once employed Obama's mother as well as Peter Geithner, Tim Geithner's father ) the Rockefeller Foundation, and the Carnegie Foundation which managed to get control of this country's educational system.
Here is the video of the Norman Dodd interview.
Norman Dodd On Tax Exempt Foundations
http://www.insidephilanthropy.com/home/2014/12/4/gara-lamarche-a-practitioner-and-critic-of-big-philanthropy.html
__________________________________________________
Here is the transcript:
http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/dodd/interview.htm
Herritage is Tavistock. I doubt one non profit is truly American or conservative. The churches are already lost and Ireland has had the UN style indoctrination for some time. After the revolution gay becomes un-state approved behavior and the subject is silent. Leave any church that caves in. Defund them. I don't get all the excitement.
ReplyDeleteMy kid's friend from the Italian school who came to attend the Baptist school was shocked to find out my kid was not sexually active. She asked why?? My kid said we are Christians, we wait until marriage. The girl laughed (she was sexually active) It's okay she said, I am Catholic not Christian.
How about posting those Pope leading the goy to the temple links again Susanna?
Anonymous 1:05 P.M.
ReplyDeleteOver at the Mother of God forum, there is a new member named "Pagraig" who, after posting the National Catholic Register report about Atlantic Philanthropies wrote truly when he wrote:
As an American, this really hurts me and im sure All Catholic Americans!!!
A revival of "the Troubles" cannot be far off in Ireland if, at the end of the day, it is discovered that Atlantic Philanthropies did to conservative Irish Catholic voters what the IRS did to conservative voters here in the United States in the 2012presidential election.
An acquaintance of mine from Ireland told me that before Ireland's initial refusal to sign the Lisbon Treaty, her economy was on a pro-growth fast track. This person also told me that many in Ireland suspect that the economy was manipulated by pro-Lisbon Treaty entities in such a way as to cause the Irish economy to tank in order to pressure people into voting for the Lisbon Treaty.
Why won't Europe listen? Ireland forced to vote on Lisbon Treaty... again
IRELAND goes to the polls today in a re-run of the referendum on the controversial Lisbon Treaty amid accusations of bribery and bullying.
October 2, 2009
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/131498/Why-won-t-Europe-listen-Ireland-forced-to-vote-on-Lisbon-Treaty-again
______________________________________________________________
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.658083
ReplyDeleteSusanna,
ReplyDeleteAmericans shocked by this development are unaware of the secularization that has swept over Ireland in the last 20 years. It is a radically different country than it was 40 or even 30 years ago, one steeped in secular materialism. In many ways, it appears the culture has been completely destroyed. With that said, I wouldn't write off the Irish people quite yet. As I explained above, most people voted "yes" out of ignorance and with the best of intentions (and amongst the young and much of the middle class it was the "trendy" thing to do).
There is indeed a hardcore group of Irish leftists who want to destroy what little is left of Christian Ireland, but I think these people may be overly confident. They are loud, influential, and have the ear of the media, but in terms of sheer numbers, I suspect they deliberately make themselves appear larger than they are.
I felt quite hopeless over the weekend, but spent a long time yesterday speaking to a friend whose job enables her to interact with many people one-to-one, mainly from blue-collar backgrounds. She spoke to several on Monday, all of whom told her they voted yes. When she told them her reasons for voting no, several said to her, "Gosh, I had no idea. If I had known that, I would have voted 'no' also!"
My friend is adamant that should religious freedom (the Church) be interfered with, Irish people will bristle and rise up, even those who no longer believe or attend mass. She told me if the government tries to persecute the Church or push through an abortion amendment that this will awake a sleeping giant. She said "you cannot erase 15+ centuries in 20 years." She bases this on the conversations she had with ordinary Dubliners yesterday. I hope she is right.
Sister S:
ReplyDeleteGOD BLESS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Constance
Speaking of "Technocracy Rising," I'm sitting in my favorite Barnes & Noble bookstore in Rochester, Michigan. I took a peek at PC Advisor (a computer magazine). One of the very first articles in the new issues is "MICROSOFT TO INTRODUCE BIOMETRIC AUTHENTICATION."
ReplyDeleteIt's getting closer!
Constance
Gay? oh you mean Sodomite, don't you, or pervert, or enemies of God perhaps?
ReplyDeleteThe Bible calls them Sodomites, so why do we (Christians), play it their way and call them what they want to be called
which is the word gay which is a doublespeak Hegalian dialectic word isn't it?
The gloves are off.
Wicked, Depraved, Sodomite and Homosexual are words that describe these people truthfully.
To NineTwentyThree:
ReplyDeleteScoffers, walking after their own lusts? "Lo, all continues as since creation . . . ."
To all:
Beware of the "game" I call "Watch the fundamentalists run." As distasteful as that mocking post may have been, there are too many succumbing to rumors. As Jeremiah warned, "Do not say to those a confederacy [conspiracy] a confederacy. Neither fear ye their fear nor dread ye their dread. Sanctify the Lord of Hosts Himself and let Him be your fear and your dread."
The promise was that if we put our trust in God he would be our sanctuary. If we don't, he's our stumblingblock. Better to have our Father in Heaven as our sanctuary rather than stumblng block!
Constance
Christine, your thoughts were interesting re the "disbanding" of formal churches and house church networking BUT house churches and networks are easily infiltrated too. Also, the scriptures plainly said they would be fulfilled as written.
ReplyDeleteWe were to remain alert and vigilant -- especially for the time prophesied to come "when the Holy Spirit would no longer strive with man." When God leaves us to "let he who is righteous be righteous still and let he who is filthy be filthy still."
Jesus said when we saw these things come upon the earth, we should lift up our heads for "your redemption draweth nigh." AND he also plainly said that "no man knoweth the day nor the hour."
Constance
Anonymous 4:06 P.M.
ReplyDeleteYou might want to keep your eye on the Nathan Cummings Foundation which appears to be pulling the same shenanigans in Israel that Atlantic Philanthropies pulled in Ireland. Plenty of "social justice" twaddle to be had on their mission statement.
The Nathan Cummings Foundation: Another foundation skews leftward after its benefactor’s death
CRC Staff | December 2, 2013
.... According to its mission statement, the Nathan Cummings Foundation is “rooted in the Jewish tradition and committed to democratic values and social justice, including fairness, diversity, and community.” These last are notoriously loaded terms. For example, in the parlance of the academic Left, the demand for “social justice” requires an entitlement state sufficiently strong to regulate every aspect of civil society and to pick winners and losers in the private sector; the political goal of “social justice” or “fairness” implies subordinating the modern republican ideal of equality before the law in favor of equality of outcome; “diversity” implies ignoring the merit of individuals and creating quotas or systems of affirmative action for favored groups; and the rhetorical appeal to “community” means that constitutionally guaranteed rights and economic freedom should be severely restricted whenever populist demagogues can persuade a legislative body that the common good of the “community” requires it. In short, the stated political aim of the NCF could in theory range anywhere from some moderate social programs designed to benefit the poor, to European social democracy, to outright collectivism......
cont...
cont...
ReplyDeleteSince this tissue of loaded political terms is nowhere defined on the foundation’s website or any of their publications, one must inquire how the NCF understands them. As with most left-of-center organizations, the only way to know what the NCF stands for is to look not to what it says, but instead to what it has done. In practical terms, the NCF mission statement claims that it seeks “to build a socially and economically just society that values nature and protects the ecological balance for future generations; promotes humane health care; and fosters arts and culture that enriches communities.” The NCF claims that these four major areas of its giving embody several themes: “concern for the poor, disadvantaged, and underserved; respect for diversity; promotion of understanding across cultures; and empowerment of communities in need.” This report will trace the funding history, finances, and past and current projects of the NCF, with a view to determining the foundation’s vision of “a socially and economically just society” and how it has endeavored to implement it....
.....Religion and Social Justice
The NCF’s account of its partnership with the New Israel Fund (NIF) on religion and social justice is altogether vague. The NCF claims to be working to advance both “religious pluralism” and “social justice” in Israel and implies this is an unusually difficult task. Presumably such talk is a veiled reference to the cultural differences that exist between the Jews and the Palestinians within Israel, as well as between the numerous groups from the Diaspora that settled there. The only concrete achievement the foundation can point to is its funding of a consortium responsible for “the most massive social justice protests to have ever been experienced in Israel,” but the NCF does not list the names and dates of these protests. A 114-page report, entitled Visioning Justice and the American Jewish Community, makes only one oblique reference to the Palestinian state and “civil liberties, conflict resolution, and Jewish-Arab co-existence efforts.” One has to wonder whether this kind of funding, and all the possible grantees in Israel the NCF is not funding, do justice to the donor intent of Nathan Cummings himself, who proudly assisted Israel’s founding. Consider, for example, the revelation in a Wikileaks cable that an official at the foundation’s grantee New Israel Fund privately told American officials “she believed that in 100 years Israel would be majority Arab and that the disappearance of a Jewish state would not be the tragedy that Israelis fear since it would become more democratic.”....read entire article...
http://capitalresearch.org/2013/12/the-nathan-cummings-foundation-another-foundation-skews-leftward-after-its-benefactors-death/
By the way, The Nathan Cummings Foundation donates heavily to another foundation National Committee for Responsible Pilanthropy whose board includes Gara LaMarche.
We can surmise the NCRP agenda from the circumstance that Gara LaMarche, former president of Soros’s Open Society Institute, is on the board of directors, and that Aaron Dorfman has been the NCRP’s executive director since 2007, prior to which he was a “community organizer” for 15 years, including 10 years as executive director of People Acting for Community Together and 5 years as “head organizer” for the Minneapolis and Miami chapters of ACORN, the disgraced community organizing group that declared bankruptcy in 2010......
http://capitalresearch.org/2013/12/the-nathan-cummings-foundation-another-foundation-skews-leftward-after-its-benefactors-death/
Anonymous 4:44 P.M.
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with what you have said. I think it is very possible that many Irish Catholics voted the way they did out of ignorance - especially given the radical liberal dissenting priests who publicly indicated that they were voting "yes" and the "nuanced" shepards who failed to feed their sheep.
Dear Sister S,
ReplyDeleteHow right you are in saying that the secular powers that are pushing gay marriage will never leave us alone. And that is because authentic Christians - whatever their particular denominations - are a major threat to their power.
One of Saul Alinsky's pronunciamentos in RULES FOR RADICALS is that "the issue is never the issue."
Every so-called "social justice" issue such as gay marriage is merely a politically expediant front for the real issue which is political power.
I am truly delighted to hear that your community is growing so fast. I have been praying for you daily.
In Christ,
Susanna
Susanna,
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind mass attendance has collapsed in Ireland. The Catholic Church is irrelevant to most Irish people; it is a relic at best, and a "poisonous institution" at worst (no one bats an eye when Irish people speak like this about the Church).
As for the "Church proper" in Ireland, it has been infiltrated heavily by the New Age. If you google the websites of Irish religious orders and retreat centers, you will see New Age content on many of them. The few traditionalists priests I know complain of isolation.
If you want some hard data on the New Age in Ireland, go to the Meetup site, put in Dublin for the city, and look at the sheer volume of New Age meetup groups under the "Religion" and "New Age" categories (many with large memberships) vs. the number of Christian groups.
Anonymous 5:03
ReplyDeleteDefinition of "homophobe:"
"The natural revulsion that unnatural acts invite in most people."
P.S. Anonymous 4:44
ReplyDeleteNot to worry. I am not writing off the Irish people yet. If you are an Irish Catholic, you may appreciate the following:
That thou soughtest shall not lack consummation,
Many a race, shriveling in the sunshine of its prosperous years,
Shall cease from faith
And shamed, though shameless sink back to its native clay
But ever thine God shall the shadow of His Hand extend
And through the night of centuries shall teach to her in woe that Song
Which when the nations wake shall sound their glad deliverance.
Prophecy given to St. Patrick after his famous fast atop Cruagh Padraig where he prayed for the conversion of Ireland.
St. Patrick's "Breastplate" ( a.k.a. the armor of God Ephesians 6:10-18 )
ReplyDeleteLorica of Saint Patrick
I arise today
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through a belief in the Threeness,
Through confession of the Oneness
Of the Creator of creation.
I arise today
Through the strength of Christ's birth and His baptism,
Through the strength of His crucifixion and His burial,
Through the strength of His resurrection and His ascension,
Through the strength of His descent for the judgment of doom.
I arise today
Through the strength of the love of cherubim,
In obedience of angels,
In service of archangels,
In the hope of resurrection to meet with reward,
In the prayers of patriarchs,
In preachings of the apostles,
In faiths of confessors,
In innocence of virgins,
In deeds of righteous men.
I arise today
Through the strength of heaven;
Light of the sun,
Splendor of fire,
Speed of lightning,
Swiftness of the wind,
Depth of the sea,
Stability of the earth,
Firmness of the rock.
I arise today
Through God's strength to pilot me;
God's might to uphold me,
God's wisdom to guide me,
God's eye to look before me,
God's ear to hear me,
God's word to speak for me,
God's hand to guard me,
God's way to lie before me,
God's shield to protect me,
God's hosts to save me
From snares of the devil,
From temptations of vices,
From every one who desires me ill,
Afar and anear,
Alone or in a multitude.
I summon today all these powers between me and evil,
Against every cruel merciless power that opposes my body and soul,
Against incantations of false prophets,
Against black laws of pagandom,
Against false laws of heretics,
Against craft of idolatry,
Against spells of women and smiths and wizards,
Against every knowledge that corrupts man's body and soul.
Christ shield me today
Against poison, against burning,
Against drowning, against wounding,
So that reward may come to me in abundance.
Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down,
Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of every man who speaks of me,
Christ in the eye that sees me,
Christ in the ear that hears me.
I arise today
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through a belief in the Threeness,
Through a confession of the Oneness
Of the Creator of creation
Salvation is of the Lord. Salvation is of the Lord. Salvation is of Christ.
May Thy Salvation, O Lord, be ever with us.
St. Patrick (ca. 377)
______________________________________
The Whole Armor of God
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his power. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, so that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For our[a] struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, so that you may be able to withstand on that evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, and fasten the belt of truth around your waist, and put on the breastplate of righteousness. 15 As shoes for your feet put on whatever will make you ready to proclaim the gospel of peace. 16 With all of these,[b] take the shield of faith, with which you will be able to quench all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18 Pray in the Spirit at all times in every prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert and always persevere in supplication for all the saints.
Ephesians 6:10-18
Susannah,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the various links on Chuck Feeny etc. Had never heard of him but very interesting.
I came across this article and video from 2 gay fella's in Ireland who tried to encourage the gay community to vote NO to gay marriage,,,obviously no one paid any mind to them but as Sister S noted,,,,Civil Unions exist (but obviously don't seem to be enough) but these fella's point out why Civil Unions should be the answer and they state that everyone KNOWS that marriage is about children (they go on to mention the surrogacy issue and so forth). I wonder if these 2 men have been 'attacked'(by the Elton John's of this world) like Dolce and Gabbanna were recently when they dared to say marriage is not for gay people and children shouldn't be magicked up for gay couples etc. For all these gay men to admit that marriage and family are NOT something for the gay community to push for means to me they understand their own circumstances are not the normal way of things.
The above article and vid were from this site called MERCATORNET. I came across this interesting read from 2011.http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/gender_bending_let_me_count_the_ways
Note how the poorer countries get bullied into changing to suit certain wealthier ones views (UN meetings). I live in Oz but had no idea there were soooooooooooo very many different genders to be aware of. Obviously need to brush up.
What is the world coming to? and whoever tells me there is no such thing as the Devil, is lying.
From OZ
Oz,
ReplyDeleteThank you for the link. It was an interesting read.
According to Rush Limbaugh, the gay community represents a very much smaller percentage of the population than we have been manipulated into believing.
HOW DID LESS THAN 1% OF THE ADULT POPULATION REDEFINE THE CONCEPT OF MARRIAGE?
April 30, 2015
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/04/30/how_did_less_than_1_of_the_adult_population_redefine_the_concept_of_marriage
_________________________________________________________________________
HOW TINY POLITICAL MINOROTIES GET THEIR WAY
May 1, 2015
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/05/01/how_tiny_political_minorities_get_their_way
_____________________________________________________
WHY GAY MARRIAGE MATTERS
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/05/04/why_gay_marriage_matters
_________________________________________________________________________
Given that you are from Oz, perhaps you will recall that the Wizard of Oz was a tiny little man who figured out a way to artificially magnify his own voice in order to fool the people into thinking that he was more powerful than he really was.
:-)
As for the devil, it has often been pointed out that the devil's greatest trick is to persuade people that he does not exist.
P.S.
ReplyDeleteOz,
Here is another more recent article form the National Catholic Register which is a service of EWTN
How Catholic Ireland Became the First Country to Vote for Same-Sex ‘Marriage’
May 26, 2015
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/how-catholic-ireland-became-the-first-country-to-vote-for-same-sex-marriage/
The Fox Network and Lucifer
ReplyDeletewww.naturalnews.com/049831_Lucifer_Fox_mainstream_media.html
Susanna:
ReplyDeleteWhat a totally beautiful prayer! Thank you!
Constance
We got us a Tupperware party!!!!
ReplyDeleteGLORY BE!!!!!!
http://sputniknews.com/radio_connecting_the_pieces/20150521/1022425109.html
ReplyDeleteRussia's Sputnik news service isn't too happy with the cashless society either.
But in this article is something that might be a weapon against it. "The man proceeded to pull out his wallet and handed her his plastic while thinking to himself, “Although it is written on the dollar bill – this note is good for all debts public and private- at what point in time did cash literally become worthless?”
That IS written on the bill. That DOES presumably reflect a law somewhere.
It is interpretable as "this is valid unless you demand plastic which represents
it," but a little legal tweaking and cash would HAVE to be accepted everywhere.
This might be the approach to take, make it illegal to reject the government's
official money and substitution isn't the same thing!
http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/page/how-to-prepare-for-tribulation-corrie-ten-boom/
ReplyDeleteAlinsky was an orthodox Jew who dedicated his book to Lucifer. There is nothing secular about Judaism. Homosexuality as a political issue is a Comunist tactic enhancing the demoralization process. There is no evidence that we are in the last and only end times but rather just another Jewish revolution in the tradition of the French, the Spanish, the Rusian, WW1 WW2 etc. Mass murder and slavery will come before biometrics, robots taking your jobs, outerspace aliens kidnapping kids, marks of the beast or the crapture. Mining or farming, that is the question.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/mrs-engels-author-gavin-mccrea-on-the-irish-sisters-who-inspired-engels-and-marx-1.2227620
ReplyDeleteanon 12:09
ReplyDeleteI am not sure what you mean "there is nothing secular about Judaism." There is nothing
secular, properly speaking, about Christianity either. As for his Jewishness, it was
strictly a cultural identity hammered into him by his parents and by the pervasive
anti-Semitism in Chicago of his youth. Once he feared he was going to be pushed into
becoming a rabbi he rebelled and "kicked the habit," retaining his Jewish identity
in terms of lip service, but was agnostic. Clearly he does not represent Judaism
as a religious belief with that attitude. And his parents were no part of socialism.
Wikipedia article has numbers linking to the sources the article draws on, so you
can check the validity.
"Early life[edit]
Saul David Alinsky was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1909 to Russian Jewish immigrant parents, the only surviving son of Benjamin Alinsky's marriage to his second wife, Sarah Tannenbaum Alinsky.[6] Alinsky stated during an interview that his parents never became involved in the "new socialist movement." He added that they were "strict Orthodox, their whole life revolved around work and synagogue ... I remember as a kid being told how important it was to study."[4]
Because of his strict Jewish upbringing, he was asked whether he ever encountered antisemitism while growing up in Chicago. He replied, "it was so pervasive you didn't really even think about it; you just accepted it as a fact of life."[4] He considered himself to be a devout Jew until the age of 12, after which time he began to fear that his parents would force him to become a rabbi.
I went through some pretty rapid withdrawal symptoms and kicked the habit ... But I'll tell you one thing about religious identity...Whenever anyone asks me my religion, I always say—and always will say—Jewish.[4]
At the same time, he was also an agnostic.[7][8][9]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky
While an overt hostility is often to be found towards Christianity that is no more
so than in any religious group you might try to poselytise, and often grounded on
false impressions, like one Jewish guy who thinks that Jesus' warning to us that He came not to bring peace but a sword, warning of our being killed and persecuted for Him, was an order to persecute Jews.
Susanna,
ReplyDeleteI hope you don't mind a question.
There is increasing speculation in the Catholic blogosphere over many of the strange comments coming out of Pope Francis's mouth (none of which have been ex cathedra pronouncements), with many writers expressing fear that the Pope, now merely a loose cannon, will at some point manifest formal heresy (not just material heresy). The appointment of Radcliffe, the influence of bishops such as Marx on the upcoming synod, and possible beatifications of Romero and Camara are adding to this troubling situation and causing many commenters to speculate about possible schism. Louis Verecchio and Steve Skojec are two of the bloggers who are following all these matters closely.
If the Church cannot err in matters of faith and morals (the gates of hell will not prevail), what will happen if the synod results in a change to doctrine (such as doctrine on homosexuality and divorce)? My understanding is that this is uncharted waters because never in the history of the Catholic Church has apostasy/heresy come from the top in this way.
I am quite confused on all this and would appreciate your take on the above (including any corrections to what I have written - my knowledge of Catholic theology is quite limited). Thank you in advance. Your commentary on Church matters is always so clear and instructive, and so very much appreciated.
https://vimeo.com/128960699 five reasons to read Technocracy Rising, reasons are given starting at 7:25 time segment.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing secular about being dedicated to Lucifer. Marx was a satan worshiper, attended black mass, was Jewish and also wrote poems dedicating himself to satan.
ReplyDeleteAlinsky wrote books that can be summed up as communism 101 for dummies or rather Chicago activists. His influence on the Catholic church is massive and echos today. Generally his influence took off after Catholics began to speak out much less about the evils in the talmud in the 1950's.
The march goes on to the revolution.... Nudge written by Cass Sunstein (Jewish) is summed up by me as Fascism 101 for dummies, or for change agents.
Alinsky left his mark for 20 years in Chicago at the archdiocese there. Thr one with all the child abuse. As a Christian I am a believer in curses. He was finaly expelled and then Notre Dame picked up Saul whete he spent more time spreading his poison. I am pretty sure that's a bunch of liberation theology.
ReplyDeleteJudaism isn't Satanism and whatever closet Satanism is involvedin kabalism is disguised well precisely because Judaism is trying to obey the Creator of heaven and earth and of all in them, not trying to worship the damn devil.
ReplyDeleteThis is almost like trying to say that secret Satanism among various protestant and
RC clergy and loose living among nominal is proof Christianity is a form of Satanism. this is ridiculous, in other words.
and don't think for a second that Protestantism evangelical or denominational is
without all the pedophilia and closet Satanism that RC has. THESE ARE DEVIANCES
AGAINST THE STANDARDS AND DOCTRINES OF THE VARIOUS CHRISTIAN SECTS. and such are
also deviances against Judaism.
https://www.google.com/search?redir_esc=&client=tablet-android-samsung&hl=en-US&oe=utf-8&safe=images&q=jewsish+man+admits+they+worsip+lucifer&source=android-browser-type&qsubts=1432761962496&devloc=0#hl=en-US&q=jewish+man+admits+they+worship+lucifer&spell=1
ReplyDelete-----
http://www.celestinevision.com/
http://www.writerscafe.org/writing/jasonsteven/776108/
James Redfield's work is cited as one root for StarShine. The new age charter school which was chosen to provide curricula for the Catholic orphanages by the Jesuit userper himself. Page 264, The Star Shine Effect. ...among others. Now I know, and we all can know. Instead of being accused of simply thinking it. It's new age, the pope chose it. That equals herecy.
-----
http://www.scienceofmindarchives.org/
ReplyDeleteHas Constance written about these guys?
This attached piece from Walid Shoebat is more than weird to me!!! I would like second opinions? I received it in my email inbox today.
ReplyDeletehttp://shoebat.com/2015/05/26/the-christian-nations-of-the-world-will-unite-under-christ-they-will-form-christendom-and-fulfill-their-divine-destiny-and-that-is-to-fight-and-destroy-the-armies-of-the-antichrist-and-be-ruled-b/
Constance
Christine, this information is not meant to be critical. Your description of your mother and how she treated you may be why you act out as your do resulting in how you appear to others. When I read Chapter 3, particularly page 40, in the book Speaking With the Devil by Carl Goldberg I said to myself Wow, that pattern explains Christine. Despite the title, the book is not a theological book but rather an academic analysis of how people become what they are as a result of their treatment by others. A cliche but none the less informative thought says knowing oneself is very hard. It is obvious that you have a high IQ which results in your constant search for information which provides answers. It is how you come across which results in the rejection of your information. Do get a copy of the book through interlibrary loan. It may bring peace to your mind as you continue your search for answers.
ReplyDeleteanon 5:29
ReplyDeleteclassic anti-Semitic type conspiracy garbage, I see the protocols of zion are referenced also.
The original title was "the protocols of the elders of zion OF THE 33RD DEGREE" WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? Fr. Seraphim Rose probably hit the nail on the head,
when he said that these probably came from some masonic lodge with a lot of Jews
so they interpreted and proposed the one world conspiracy in their preferred
terms, but it wasn't Jewish per se. It was Masonic.
A Jew who becomes a Mason engages in the same apostasy practices as a Christian
does, you cannot be a mason especially as you advance through the degrees, and
not become guilty of worship of pagan gods.
Now as for that interview, I see it results in the usual redbaiting ideas, that
the Jew is the controller of the UN which is the tool of Communism. Communism
was as rough on faithful Jews as on anyone else, it was APOSTATE Jews who had
any role. Of course in the early stages of any social upheaval movement that
would loosen oppressive rules, Jews and anyone else affectable would get involved.
THE PROTESTANTS AND ROSICRUCIANS WERE IN BED TOGETHER IN THE EARLY DAYS both had
Rome as a common enemy. this pattern is commonplace.
Jews have various sects and the classic Orthodox don't recognize the others as
legitimate, especially the reform and the back to the torah dump the Talmud karaites. But they will all pull together when confronted with some danger that
targets Jews by ancestry instead of by some one sect. REad Adam Wouk's THIS IS MY GOD for details.
I have my doubts that that Jewish guy interviewed in the lead article in the search even existed.
ReplyDeleteConstance 6;28 If you get a copy of the book Through the '80s, you will see that even in 1980 New Age leadership took that kind of response into account. They will twist and turn the message to their own benefit. It's a case of New Age "Come into my parlor said the spider to the fly."
ReplyDeleteTo the general public it will appear as trying to force God's hand by group action and if God doesn't respond in the way planned, those following God will come across as disillusioned losers. One has to know the opposition's moves in advance.
Constance, Regarding the Walid Shoebat link it reads like 'christian' dominionism to me.
ReplyDeleteAlso called bunk.
Are they wanting a repeat of the crusades again?
When the Lord comes to rule from Jerusalem those remaining alive here on earth after anti-christ has had his short stint, will have opportunity to learn from Him what the church could never fully understand or do. The role of the church will not be what Shoebat proposes.
God's got this plan and will be handled with his rod of iron for that 1000 years.
Constance 6:28
ReplyDeletethis is getting beyond weird. "The Son does the will of the Father, and so the State does the will of the Church, God’s representative on earth, and the prophet — like the Holy Spirit — directs the nation."
firstly, this is in line with the (now admitted by RC as) forged Donation of
Constantine and Isidorean Decretals.
secondly, WHO IS THE PROPHET? while such appear in times of great sin of the nation
of Israel and called them to repentance, this is not the usual picture of day to
day national operations. There is no such office as a permanent let alone worldly
governmental relevant figure in the New Testament, nor in the history of the
Byzantine symphony of church and state - a cooperation, where neither absolutely
directed the other. The examples the articles gives are anomalous assuming they
are legitimate, and do not figure in this direction of the nation.
Shoebat wants to roll back the clock to the middle ages. yes the Crusades were in
response to provocations, but yes they involved a lot of atrocities on the way
to the holy land and at the holy land. there were people given safe passage promise
who were massacred. there were women who got raped, and Peter the Hermit had to tell
the crusaders to dump their camp follower whores if they would have victory. It was
also remarked, that these men who caused suffering in Europe would gladden Europe
by their departure, and gladden those they liberated from the moslem yoke by their
arrival. There were purely political and financial interests also in some of the
crusades at least. if not all.
"To build Christian civilization, and to bring the world into the Body of Christ, this is the divine destiny for Christendom."
what is this but a Romanized version of manifest sons of God plus dominionism?
there are some questions about the legitimacy of Walid Shoebat's story which he
answers in terms that make sense. But this is getting very very weird. Ted (Theodore)
his son talks about Jesus coming back to free the Copts. Like He's going to land
in Egypt instead of Jerusalem? what is going on here?
When Jesus didn't come back as soon as expected, Augustine and others started
formulating what became amillennialism, that Jesus will come back to judge the living and the dead who will be resurrected, but that the millennium is symbolic
of the time He rules earth through the Church.
In fact what we have is a foretaste of the Kingdom of Heaven, during a church
service and in our lives led for Jesus Christ. The devil is stated by these people
as bound NOW, and they draw on the issue of the descent to hades to defeat the devil
and then the Resurrection. (mishandled by the WOF crew as suffering in hades, which
is the realm of the dead divided into nice and bad situations, the nice situation
possibly relocated to heaven in a reorganization of the unseen world after Jesus'
Resurrection and Ascention.) Actually, the devil is crippled, not fully bound, since
Revelation says he can't even tempt the nations during that time, and he can
certainly tempt them and believers now. But his power is greatly reduced.
Western scholastic mechanical mindset views things in start either/or terms. This
is correct in only a few matters. most are more nuanced.
post millennialism or dominionism is amillennialism on steroids. A great falling
away would presuppose a great amount of belief in the world to fall away from, and
this is hardly the case. even in a nominal sense. Christianity is not the majority
religion even officially (never mind actual belief of individuals, and as this
fades and subsequent generations drift the great falling away can occur).
But what Shoebat and son are blathering is something rather extreme, and lends
itself well to imperialism without any actual increase of virtue.
http://www.upworthy.com/the-international-flag-of-earth-is-kind-of-a-big-deal-heres-why?c=ufb1
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 1:23 P.M.
ReplyDeleteThe Pope is just as subject to the Catholic Rule of Faith as I am. Just because the Pope is the Pope, that doesn't mean that he can just teach anything he pleases. He cannot teach anything in matters of faith and morals that go contrary to Scripture and Sacred Tradition. If he were to do so, I would know immediately that this was not "ex cathedra" and I would not be obliged to obey him.
While it is possible for the Pope to personally/privately embrace a heresy, we Catholics beliece that the Pope is specially protected by the Holy Spirit from officially teaching anything heretical ex cathedra.
While I am obliged as a Catholic to obey the Pope in matters of faith and morals, I am not obliged to embrace his political opinions, his scientific opinions or even his religious opinions ( even if they are not heretical ) insofar as they are his own private opinions and not official Church teaching.
For example, when Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI wrote his book Jesus of Nazareth he stated that the reader did not have to agree with everything he said in terms of his own insights on the familiar passages of the Gospels.
So if Pope Francis were to favor socialism, I would not have to agree with him since this would be his political opinion and as such would not involve the papal charism,
If Pope Francis were to say that human induced climate change is settled science, I would not have to agree with him since this would simply be his scientific opinion and as such would also not involve the papal charism.
If he were to offer his personal opinions on religious matters that have not yet been officially defined I would be permitted to respectfully disagree.
But if the Pope were to say that homosexual activity were "A-OK" or that abortion were permissable - or that Jesus was not truly God as well as truly man - then I would be obliged not to obey.
With regard to the synod, if they teach anything contrary to faith or morals, I would not be obliged to obey them either. In fact, it would be my duty to disobey them because they would be teaching error and heresy.
As you have rightly indicated, we are entering into very confusing times. It is my belief that if the Pope were about to officially teach error, the Holy Spirit would either strike him down in such a way as to make it appear that he died a natural death or intervene in such a way as to change his mind.
Here is a very interesting - and relevant - article on this very subject by Father
Zuhlsdorf. As you can see, it was posted just this past February.
When would we have to resist the Pope? Wherein Fr. Z Rants.
Posted on 8 February 2015 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2015/02/when-would-we-have-to-resist-the-pope-wherein-fr-z-rants/
____________________________________________________________
I hope that yopu have found this answwer to your question helpful.
for the tenth time, Shoebat is a Jew, he said he was from a Jewish family who was forced to convert because they always practiced Jewish rituals like passover even though they were muslims. He was getting his dna tested and was sure he was Jewish. He is part of a group of I think possibly (it is possible), Mossad or ADL front groups who are going around preaching that Christians should hate muslims, poke the bear, pick on muslims, fight with muslims because this in my opinion, is the same message the Roths and Zionists push, Christians should make war everywhere but especially in the middle east so Israel can take over or maybe they want the bank of Iran if they dont have all the banks yet.
ReplyDeleteLast weekend we watched, The Avengers....the quote to Captain America was something like ..silly Americans did you really think you could get out of a war? You should hear the rest of the quotes, peace in our time, and I hear Captain America gets axed next time (illuminati programing for the kids, horrible) ... We have no business being in wars in Syria etc. but we seem to be Janissarys for the bankers.
The protocols are real. Shamballa or Jewish, same shit. Soros is Jewish, was from a National Zionist NAZI family and a world server for Lucis trust. Rossicrutian, masonic, golden dawn, jewish mysticism, caballah. Same Lucifer BS. If they are not for us, they are against us.
Why even get Shoebat emails? Seriously, hit delete.
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090518201440AAetJlt
ReplyDeleteCrusades, Jesuits, Nazi...no wonder ..makes sense to me.
anon 10:03 as most of you people do, you confuse the issue of Jewish
ReplyDeletebloodlines and some who really worship their people and value God
as an afterthought, with Judaism per se, which by the way, is not
bound by every last damn fool thing in the Talmud which is a record
of highly contradictory people arguing with each other.
moslems have a vile track record all along, and while there is a
traceable influence of british intelligence and later Nazism in
the jihadi scene, it is in itself a throwback to the original.
right now, although I agree we should not be messing in the Middle
East, the sole real purpose aside from oil interests I think is
to create trouble for Christians. AND FOR JEWS. the oil interests
already had their situation fine, so a hidden anti Christian agenda
is back of the financial reasons given to persuade some of their
fellows.
HOWEVER.....
The Kurds are the safest people to be among right now, though some
in Iraq are serious moslems, most placed tribal tradition first, so
their women were always freer.
And the Kurds are the only people who won't back down to ISIS.
So we should arm them directly. and continue air support.
Susanna,
ReplyDeleteregarding a formal statement by the pope that is heretical,
"If he were to do so, I would know immediately that this was not "ex cathedra" and I would not be obliged to obey him."
So basically you have defined ex cathedra to mean not what it means,
a formal papal statement of exercising his office as infallible pope
in matters of faith and morals, a statement composed and issued by
him with a papal seal that used to be called a papal bull because
of the seal used, some latin term or a physical similarity to a bull
in the design I forget which.
Rather, if it fits the existing magisterium it is okay, if it deviates
it doesn't.
you are a lot safer taking this approach. And in fact, the horrific
implications of infallibility doctrine are so noted that a lot of
RC does exactly this.
Susannah
ReplyDeleteHave just finished reading the Rush Limbaugh link about the Secretary of State programme. And interesting that for the important storyline of the episode he's discussing it still all comes down to an issue for the gay community and as Rush says, " What percentage of people that do this kind of thing in Hollywood, that write TV shows, produce TV shows, direct TV shows, stage manage TV, what percentage of that universe do you think is homosexual?
And that number is much greater than 1%, like the general population. That number is huge in Hollywood. And that's a partial answer to the question I've given you, ....". I had read something similar a few years ago about a gay man that worked in the UK media. (He was leaving the 'gay' lifestyle behind in favour of marrying ( a woman ) and becoming a husband and father) but he suggested that it went without saying that you were almost frowned upon if you weren't gay in the media group he worked for. Thank God he changed his tune and interesting that he was ABLE to. Makes it a CHOICE as far as I can tell !! Either way, obviously much of what's pushed onto people via media comes from those who are employed to brainwash the viewer. And interesting what Rush suggests is the more likely percentage of the gay community because for all we see and hear it does SEEM like a much bigger and more powerful group. Obviously pushers out there with an agenda.
In Rush's second link that you left his closing paragraph sums its all up: "Liberals are a minority of thought. The percentage of the country that's liberal is less than 50. It's not a majority. But, where are they? They are in the classroom. They're running colleges, universities, high schools, school systems. They're running the media, news, movies, books, television shows. So the impression, particularly with the control of the media, the impression is that they are much larger in number than they are, much more widespread than they are, and much more powerful than they are. Well, they are powerful, because they own those institutions. " And in the 3rd link by Rush he says, "...there are people that care about the institution that consider it valid, valuable, worthwhile, meaningful, relevant, and productive.
They're worried about it being watered down and diluted to meaninglessness. And in the process, they're worried about the whole notion of respect for it crumbling as well." (referring to 'normal' ol marriage here). And isn't this the whole thing of it,,,,it is that 'marriage' is the union of a man and a woman. PERIOD. Who gets to change that? WHO? and WHY? you know, there is a such a blasé attitude amongst a lot of the younger people these days when it comes to basic rights and wrongs. Obviously the media tactics are working.
This is the video I thought I left for you but didn't (made my earlier comment seem senseless, sorry about that)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6HD8KLQBvA This video was organised by Keepmarriage.org and Mothers and Fathers Matter on facebook but both links seem to be broken already to these sites. Either way, they livestreamed their launch prior the Irish vote, sadly of course, the other side won. Its interesting they got these 2 gay men to speak up against the change. Glad they did of course. Even they realise what was proposed was not right. https://agendaeurope.wordpress.com/2015/04/16/keep-marriage-irish-marriage-referendum-campaign-to-be-launched-tomorrow/
From OZ
Rush Limbaugh is Tavistock isn't he?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rushlimbaughsites.com/youtube/video/FOID9TbKjmQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
He was the inspiration for Mark "con con" Levin was he not?
Catholic Group Exposes Red Influence in the Vatican
ReplyDeletecanadafreepress.com/index.php/article/72318
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzeG4q_3tdw
ReplyDeletefor christine
Christine:
ReplyDeleteRe: Rather, if it fits the existing magisterium it is okay, if it deviates
it doesn't.
you are a lot safer taking this approach. And in fact, the horrific
implications of infallibility doctrine are so noted that a lot of
RC does exactly this.
Basically, this is correct. The role of the Pope is to preserve the Sacred Tradition.....and by Sacred Tradition I mean the Christian revelation given by Christ directly to the Apostles.......and to hand it on intact to his successors. Of course, the essential revelation is the one given to Peter by God the Father and confirmed by Jesus after Jesus asked Peter "Who do you say that I am?" to which Peter replied "Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God." Because if Jesus isn't God, then he was either a madman or a very evil person.......even an antichrist.......and we have not been redeemed. However, the Resurrection ( Peter along with the Apostles was an eyewitness to the Risen Lord) was the miracle Jesus promised that would prove beyond all reasonable doubt that He was who He said He was......namely God. In fact, as St. Paul tells us, the Christian faith stands or fall on the historical fact of the Resurrection. If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then as St. Paul tells us, we Christians above all men are to be pitied because we are still in our sins. This is why we believe that Jesus established in Peter and the Apostles a concrete HISTORICAL Apostolic succession to preserve the truth of the Christian revelation intact and hand it on to their successors. By means of this HISTORIC succession, the Christian revelation has been prevented from being downgraded to the status of a mere myth......in spite of the efforts on the part neo-modernist heretics whose so-called "historical-critical method" is an abuse of that method and is neither historical nor critical.
"Ex cathedra" by its very definition means that the Holy Spirit is going to prevent the pope from officially teaching anything in matters of faith and morals that goes contrary to the Catholic Rule of faith....Scripture and Sacred Tradition. If you think infallibility means that the Pope can officially teach his own religious opinions or anything he likes and pass them off as authentically "Christian," - and that Catholics have to obey him if he does - then you clearly do not understand the doctrine of papal infallibility or the Petrine charism.
Historically, the subject of a possible heretical pope was discussed by Bellarmine and Suarez long before papal infallibility was defined as a dogma of the Catholic faith in 1870.
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2015/can-pope-heretic
_______________________________________________________
HAS ANY POPE BEEN GUILTY OF HERESY?
Warren H Carroll
http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/popeguil.htm
____________________________________________________
A Pope cannot be guilty of speaking heresy ex cathedra because what he says ex cathedra is by definition doctrine, and therefore not heresy. The entire point of Roman Catholicism is that the church does Bible interpretation for you.
ReplyDeleteSo, what if the Pope does contradict the Bible while speaking ex cathedra? Before the formalisation of the doctrine of papal infallibility in 1870 he might be deposed as a heretic by a General Council (ie of bishops). This happened when the Council of Pisa attempted to put an end to the Western Schism by expediently declaring both the Avignon and Roman Popes of the day heretical. From that era onwards there was a power struggle between the papacy and the conciliarist movement until the papacy decisively won in 1870 by getting a council to concede the point in the doctrine of papal infallibility.
So if the Pope contradicts the Bible while speaking ex cathedra then Catholics have to find a way of explaining that either he or the Bible don't mean what they say. If they fail to do that then Catholic doctrine is wrecked. Meanwhile, Catholics say the Pope will be prevented from doing such a thing by the Holy Spirit, and decline to consider the possibility. But where does that assertion come from?
Moreover there is ONE mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5), who is therefore the ONLY person through whom we should pray – Jesus Christ. How many Popes have contradicted that?
anon 8:02
ReplyDeleteyes, I know and I think I may have mentioned in the past, that the Orthodox
consider that establishing Israel as a nation state is presumption and only
to be done by the Messiah when he comes.
however, there are two problems here, three in fact.
a. God can and has used His enemies to accomplish His purposes, in one case
at least He used Babylon to enforce the land Sabbath laws, as He warned in
Leviticus He would make the land lie fallow the number of years it should
have lain fallow (one out of every seven).
b. Zechariah and Ezekiel indicate Israel will be in place when Messiah
comes (or comes back), though in the former case this depicts Jews per se
not necessarily Israel as a nation state, and Jews had been filtering
back in and living in Israel/Palestine for over a thousand years before
1948. Ezekiel indicates they would be brought back to their land THEN
cleansed of their iniquities, while the events in Ezra and Nehemiah point
to minimal cleansing needed of only a few and the rest pretty dedicated
even if slack in building at times.
which brings us to
c. since they don't recognize Jesus as Messiah, blindness in part has
come upon them until the fullness of the Gentiles has come into the
new covenant with YHWH. This would compromise their ability to interpret
correctly in more points than this one.
now, it is true that Israel could cease to exist as a nation state and
the Jewish population remain and the prophecies be fulfilled.
HOWEVER, there was hostility to Jews and attacks which led up to the
1948 situation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ByJb7QQ9U
and SINCE THEY ARE THERE NOW IN LARGE NUMBERS, and
SINCE THE PALESTINIANS ARE HEAVILY IDENTIFIED WITH THE WHOLE JIHAD
AND DESTROY ALL JEWS ATTITUDE,
exactly WHAT IS TO BE DONE NOW, even if you think they should not
have a nation state (and they won't for long if Palestinian demands
are met, because the remaining ground will be nondefensible, the
reason for taking the Golan Heights in the first place)?
you can't have the resulting massacre happen. not to mention, that
those young enough to be not heavily Judaized and get raised as
moslems and those non religious Jews who convert to islam to save
their hides, will be a fast addition to the Islamic population of
the more hostile inclined sort.
the jihad thing is not new, and stealth jihad (immigrate, breed
like rabbits and convert all they can, become a big enough population
bloc they can be a political bloc and eventually take over) is a
plan in play for nearly 100 years. THAT'S WHY THEY LEAVE THEIR LANDS
AND TRY TO MAKE THE LANDS THEY MOVE TO LIKE THE LANDS THEY LEFT.
the torture described are techniques learned as much from the
trainers from USA as from any other source.
"now, it is true that Israel could cease to exist as a nation state and
ReplyDeletethe Jewish population remain and the prophecies be fulfilled. "
That is deeply flawed and unbiblical, Christine. Satan loves this lie.
Here is why: Genesis 13: 12,15, and 17. Also Genesis 15: 7, 13, and 18.
That is God talking, Christine.
And there are many many more verses to state and further reveal this theme in the Bible.
His mandate for His Inheritance which is those people in that land. He jealousy guards this and has no rival (as the world is about to find out). What world is doing in all the global politicing regarding Israel, Jerusalem and Temple Mount is poking the Apple of God's Eye!!!
He said of Jerusalem that His Name is There. He is the Lord Shammah.
In the Psalms God said of Israel that He is their portion and inheritance and likewise He is theirs.
These are promises He has kept, and though a temporary forfeiture happened (as prophecied in the dispora) He has a return for Israel, for the people and the land that no global agenda or man-made device can overthrow. Current events are all coming about, as we speak, to finish what God has been and will be doing with His Land and People upon it. He considers it an Abomination whenever they are separated from it. Do a word study in the Bible of the words land and inheritance and you will see how greatly you have erred in your thinking.
You have Israel replaced and/or removed from what God Spoke with your statement so either reword it or throw out your bad theology.
The jealousy against Israel rages on in statements just like yours.
God will weigh in on that shortly, and folks with that thinking will be deeply shamed or punished, that they took Him and His Eternal Word, full of Eternal Promises, so lightly, or with malice tried to change in all the social and political engineering, the Unchangeable Character of God and His Word that cannot return to Him void, to fit their own agenda.
It won't be pretty.
anon 12:17
ReplyDeleteI agree, I am merely pointing out that you could have some
prophecies fulfilled that depict Jews in their land without
them having control of their land. When restored from
Babylon they always remained under the rule of another
nation state empire, the Persians, the Greeks and the Romans
they turned to in order to get rid of the Greeks because of
Antiochus Epiphanes. These empires pursued the practice of
allowing local kingdoms to continue but as puppet states of
and tribute payers to the empire over them.
But the premise of the ORthodox Jews is that Messiah has not come
yet, which is wrong, so their assessment is inherently flawed,
however they were expecting to have done at His coming what He
will do at His Second Coming.
Regardless of how you interpret prophecy regarding Israel's
idependent nation statehood, something that has not really
happened since the Babylonian captivity, you do have to have
a lot of Jews present to fulfill some prophecies, whether
they have their own legal state with no superiors, or whether
they are tributary to another state, or whether they are
communities under a state without statehood themselves, such
as in Ottoman times. The Ottoman millet system was a little
bit like the Roman, Greek and Persian systems.
With the present serious hatred and determination to destroy
Israel and all Jews, no rollback is feasible at all. It will
endanger too many lives. There are some extremist Jews, who
figure if they rebuilt the Temple, or at least blew up the
dome of the rock, they could start a new holocaust of them
and would force God's hand to send the Messiah NOW.
such presumption ignores that God has millions of Jews outside
of Israel and can preserve those inside Israel He pleases to
preserve, for the future, while Israel as a state gets erased.
This of course is irrelevant to the issue that sometimes Israel
goes way too far in handling its subordinate "Palestinian"
population, and the amillennialist RC and Orthodox who do not
expect to see Israel in the land as part of end times and are
Arab easily get drawn into the Palestinian political category,
because being Arab they got displaced somewhat, and one writer
complained of difficulty making a pilgrimage to holy sites
inside Israel because of border crossing issues for Christians
on the basis of their Arab identity.
these things need to be ironed out, without Israel losing an
inch of ground. The dome of the rock is largely a false
issue, Jerusalem and that mosque never being a major holy site
for islam until 20th century propaganda got going using it
as a rallying point and telling the muslims it is uber sacred
as on a par with Mecca which it never was.
meanwhile, anti Zionist (read: covert anti-Semitic) propagandists
point out that the promise to Abraham would have Israel acquiring
large segments of Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Arabia and I think all
of Lebanon, but these prophecies could be left unfulfilled and
then fulfilled at the Second Coming which will be a Jewish state
empire let's face it, with the King of the Jews, Jesus Messiah,
in charge. The New Jerusalem's dimensions add up to at least
12000 feet high, wide and long, (unless that's miles, I forget)
and only comes after the new heavens and the new earth, so I
guess there will be an overhaul of the laws of physics to allow
this. (no this is not Christine theology or whatever, just read
Revelation and take it literally.)
that's 1200 miles high, wide and long.
ReplyDeleteSusanna,
ReplyDeleteThank you for the Croagh Patrick prophecy. I couldn't find any information about it whatsoever online. A friend and I discussed it at length last night. We found it fascinating but cryptic in parts, and would appreciate your feedback. Here is what we discussed (line by line):
"That thou soughtest shall not lack consummation"
1. This line is clear enough. The object St Patrick sought was the conversion of the Irish people from paganism to Christianity. Interestingly, there is scholarship that suggests Patrick believed Ireland to be the "end of the earth" and that once the Irish were converted, this would usher in the Second Coming.
"Many a race, shriveling in the sunshine of its prosperous years,
Shall cease from faith"
2. We had problems interpreting this line. Does "Many a race" refer to many races/nations in the world including Ireland, or does it refer to Ireland exclusively (which after Patrick's time, was conquered by a succession of outside races [the Vikings, the Normans, the English] not to mention today's Ireland which, because of inward immigration [Poles, Nigerians, Chinese, Brazilians, etc.], looks more like the "melting pot" of a NYC or a London). Given that what Patrick "soughtest" was the conversion of the Irish nation only, we suspect the term "many a race" refers exclusively to Ireland.
Following on from this, "shrivelling in the sunshine of its prosperous years shall cease from faith" most definitely refers to today's Ireland. The last two decades are the ONLY time of economic prosperity the Irish nation has ever known - prior to the advent of the unprecedented "Celtic Tiger," Ireland for centuries had remained an impoverished country. Moreover, for the first time since the 5c (Patrick's time), the Irish have, in the last two decades, indeed ceased from faith. We presume "shrivelling" refers to the light of faith shrinking to almost nothing.
"And shamed, though shameless sink back to its native clay"
3. Yes, the Irish have shamelessly reverted to paganism (their "native clay") and by doing so have shamed themselves before God.
"But ever thine God shall the shadow of His Hand extend"
4. This is a really interesting line and we are not sure about its meaning. God extends not his hand but the "shadow of His hand." This suggests that God's grace will continue to be present but in a way that is difficult for the Irish to perceive directly. How would this manifest itself? We aren't sure.
"And through the night of centuries shall teach to her in woe that Song
Which when the nations wake shall sound their glad deliverance."
5. We had difficulty with the timeline conveyed by the image "the night of centuries" - the "night" is the time of prosperity where the Irish have lost their faith, but will this really last literally for hundreds of years ("centuries")?
Another possible interpretation is that the "night of centuries" refers to the period of the 5c (Patrick's time) up until the last day, and that God's Grace will always be present in Ireland up until the Second Coming (the "Song" referring to the song of the lamb in Rev.).
We would appreciate your comments on how you interpret the prophecy.
Anon 9:57
ReplyDeleteYou are right on. Good post.
Susanna
Did you really provide a link for "Has any pope been guilty of heresy" from EWTN?
Really????
That's not objective research or from an unbiased source.
Like- do you really expect anything negative from EWTN?
No you don't, that's why you provided the link. How are any non catholic people supposed to take that seriously?
The first thing in providing good research is- from an UNBIASED source!!!!
anon 2:44
ReplyDeletethere are no unbiased sources. either its RC and biased pro RC or
its protestant (or Orthodox) and biased anti RC.
what you need to do is to collect the known facts of each case,
determine if possible what was considered relevant to this issue
in those days not just now, and also note the facts of how these
cases were dealt with (and what those actions imply regarding how
the papacy was viewed).
you can start with the RC source, for the facts, but look to
whatever sources they cite and sources outside of Roman jurisdiction
in those days (which originally did not include southern Italy and
Sicily, which is why Pope Gelasius I could only complain, but not
authoritatively denounce with orders to cease and desist, when
some women, in absence of suitable men, were ordained to the priesthood
in non heretical churches of the orthodox faith and apostolic succession).
get the entire picture, including how much if at all the heresy was
promoted by the pope at issue in each case.
Bear in mind, that a papal pronouncement in public, ANY bishop's
pronouncement in public, was as serious an issue, "preaching heresy
bareheaded" as if he at present made an ex cathedra announcement
such as that he now announces and proclaims that RC doctrine is
to include worship of the tick walter and that this has always
been implicit now explicit RC doctrine and faith as per the parody
video how to start a cult hilarious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNs_R1bT9I0 and that failure to
have a mellow yello igloo on your property is grounds for
immediate excommunication or lack of same on church property means
the priest gets defrocked and the bishop who doesn't defrock him
gets deposed. That would be as about ex cathedra by modern
standards as you can get.
Anonymous 2:44,
ReplyDeleteI was the person who asked Susanna about Catholic doctrine and the rumors of a possible schism in the Catholic Church after the Synod. I wasn't asking her to defend it to non-Catholics, nor was it her intent to do so (which you would clearly see if you actually read and understood what she said).
Susanna was merely answering a specific question about how Catholic doctrine itself defines papal infallibility. So please BACK OFF and show some restraint and respect for Susanna, who was not trying to convert non-Catholics, prove them wrong, or defend the Catholic Rule of Faith to you. My question, and her answer, had nothing to do with non-Catholics! (Duh!)
Susanna, thank you for taking the time to answer my question about the Synod.
anon 3:16
ReplyDeletein fairness to anon 2:44 I doubt he or she thought Susanna was trying
to beat us over the head with RC standards and ideology, just using
the occasion to try to convert Susanna.
Anonymous 2:35 P.M.
ReplyDeleteI have the prophecy from a very large and very old book ( late 1800's ) entitled CATHOLIC TRUTH which bears the imprimatur of Archbishop Michael Corrigan of New York (August 13, 1839 – May 5, 1902) who was eventually a supporter of Saint Frances Xavier Cabrini, M.S.C. - a.k.a. Mother Cabrini. It contains the life of St. Patrick from the Chronicles of St. Evan.
But before I even read it there, the prophecy had already been handed down orally by my Irish grandmother to my father and to me by my father from the time I was a child. Many are unaware of the Irish oral tradition which is similar to the oral tradition of the Jewish people.
Here is how I have been given to understand the portions of the prophecy you have mentioned.
1."Many a race, shriveling in the sunshine of its prosperous years,
This refers to many nations EXCLUDING Ireland. This is very likely because Ireland has never been and never will be an important secular world power.
This prophecy, moreover, was given after a fast by St. Patrick that rivaled the fasts of Moses and Elias. In a manner similar to Abraham, St. Patrick played "let's make a deal" with God and refused to come down from the mountain nor stay his fast until he obtained the conversion of all of Ireland. Ireland may backslide, but she will bounce back stronger than ever and will never lose the faith. Apart from that the nations that will "cease from faith" are not specified in the prophecy.
Before her conversion, Ireland was the place where demons seemed to have their fullest liberty. The legendary snakes that St. Patrick was accredited with having driven from Ireland before converting her to Christianity were a symbol of paganism and the druids.
Shriveling in the sunshine of its prosperous years shall cease from faith and shamed though shameless sink back to its native clay.
This passage echoes Jeremiah 6:15
They were confounded, because they commmitted abomination: yea, rather they were not confounded with confusion, and they knew not how to blush: wherefore they shall fall among them that fall: in the time of their visitation they shall fall down, saith the Lord.
Those nations that sink back to their native clay will be apostates and bereft of sanctifying grace through their own fault.
But ever thine God shall the shadow of His Hand extend"
Recall that Moses saw God's "back parts."
Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen." Exodus 33:23
because .......
No one has seen the face of God and lived. Exodus 33:20
And finally
"And through the night of centuries shall teach to her in woe that Song..
Which when the nations wake shall sound their glad deliverance."
The "night of centuries" is the whole Christian era until the Second Coming of Christ and Judgement Day.
We do not curerently live in Paradise. We live in exile from our true home. We live in a "vale of tears." Here we work out our faith in "fear and trembling."
Ergo the reference to the "nightof centuries."
Ireland will keep the faith but at great cost and not without great suffering. The Song that is referred to is believed to be the Song of Moses ( (Deuteronomy 32:1-43) and the Song of the Lamb referred to in the Book of Revelations ( Rev.5:3 ). These are the "Songs" that sound their ( the nations') "glad deliverance." But the deliverance must be freely accepted. God forces salvation on no one.
Here you have my understanding of the prophecy.
Of course, it needs to be pointed out that like any other prophecy or private revelation, we Catholics are not required to believe in them "de fide." Nevertheless, that does not preclude the possibility that some of them might just happen to be true.
Susanna,
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for that. Of course!
Why were we so off the mark? It's hard for us to think of Ireland any longer as holding onto the faith through centuries of woe (since Ireland today is a rich, mainly apostate, secular nation where "suffering" is but a distant memory), but had either of us read the prophecy say, 25 years ago, I think most of the interpretation you gave would have been the obvious one (although I would not have copped the allusion to Exodus).
There is another prophecy that you may be familiar with which actually references a period of apostasy. I have heard a few different variations over the years. The below is from "A Last Vision of St Patrick" by Fr. William B. Morris:
Once the Saint had a great vision, in which the actual state and the future of the Church in Ireland were revealed to him. In the first place, he saw the whole land, as it were, like a great furnace whose flames reached to the sky. And he clearly heard the voice of an Angel saying, "Such is now - the state of Ireland in the sight of the Lord."
After a little time, instead of this far-spreading universal fire, he saw flaming mountains here and there over the land, then torches shining, succeeded by glimmering lights amidst an ever-increasing darkness. Last of all, he saw a few live coals buried and burning deep in the earth. Then an angelic voice was heard, saying that such should be the successive states of the Irish people in times that were coming.
Then, with tears rolling down his cheeks, the Saint repeated many times those words of the Psalmist, "Will God then cast us off forever ? Or will He never more be favorable again? Or will He cut off His mercy forever from generation to generation? Or will God forget to show mercy? Or will He in anger close off His mercies?"
The Angel answered and told him to look to the north of the land, and that there he should see the Hand of the Most High. The Saint lifted up his eyes, and, behold, a little light arose in Uladh (Ulster), which had struggled long in the darkness, until at length the whole island was filled with the brightness of its glory, and Ireland returned to its first state of all-pervading fire. (Acta SS., p. 575).
We are keeping our eyes on Ulster.
OZ, Susanna, Sister S,
ReplyDeleteYou have no need of the Pope, or the Catholic religious organization.
You only need Jesus!!!
He can help you break free!!!
Anonymous 5:56 P.M.
ReplyDeleteThank you! I had a vague remembrance of such a prophecy as the one mentioned by Fr. Morris, but was reluctant to cite it because I didn't have the details.
Anonymous 3:16 P.M.
ReplyDeleteRe:I was the person who asked Susanna about Catholic doctrine and the rumors of a possible schism in the Catholic Church after the Synod. I wasn't asking her to defend it to non-Catholics, nor was it her intent to do so (which you would clearly see if you actually read and understood what she said).
My question, and her answer, had nothing to do with non-Catholics! (Duh!)
BINGO!!!!
for those all bent out of shape about the date of Jesus'
ReplyDeletebirth, Dec. 25 or not.....
http://www.sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/ARTB/k/568/When-Was-Jesus-Born.htm
this makes a real good case for Him being born in September.
But by this reckoning, HE WAS CONCEIVED IN DECEMBER.
His Incarnation was not at His birth, but at His conception.
So Christmas actually celebrates His Incarnation, His conception.
Jesus was born on Sept 11th. The satanic ritual in NYC on the first Sept 11 of the 21st century was deliberate.
ReplyDeletehttp://m.youtube.com/results?q=911%20mass%20ritual&sm=3
And done by the mother of all harlots:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc1lGqIGYSA
Everyone knows this by now. William Cooper (who also read Cumbey's book) discussed this mass ritual and so has Fritz Springmeier. So according to Mary, Rabbis beaten by Zionists are just making it up, either they are anti semetic or self haters. Whistleblowers not allowed, kinda tarnishes the old Jews are perfect and don't worship Lucifer image.
and if you want to worry about Satanism in high places and the secret
ReplyDeletereligion of some who are not thought to be such, take a closer look
at the US and many who appear to be church going or pastoring people
the heartland is rife with it.
http://www.adl.org/civil-rights/discrimination/c/adl-and-the-lgbt-community.html
ReplyDeleteYup. I supose one can't be a tv pastor without being approved by the secret societies, I heard. Witches came over with the Mayflower Pilgrims. I am not disapointed in some American fantasy lost.
I heard Gates taking about another flu epidemic. Sounds like when they tried to wipe out the sucessful Puritans in Lieden with a flu. Sounds like they did that sort of thing all along. Maybe the plague was planned in the middle ages. Hell hath no furry like a woman scorned.
I haven't been to Israel but I am sure it is like a prison camp for Palistinians. During Rosevelts day, the ADL called anti communists, anti semities. Naturally because communism is jewish. God must be anti semetic to the ADL.
Anon 3:16 & Susanna
ReplyDeleteNo one said Susanna was trying to convert anyone. I'm a former catholic of 35+ years so that's not even close to what I meant.
I was making the point that has been made before, that all of her sources are almost ALWAYS from pro catholic sources.
There are a lot of people around here that trip over themselves praising Susanna for how brilliant she is, and how great a researcher she is. You don't have to be brilliant or a great researcher when most of what you cite are from slanted or one sided views.
It's really funny when she is asked for her input on some catholic or papal issue. It's like someone asking me for input about my company website. You don't really think I'm going to say anything bad do you?
That's what I meant if it wasn't clear. That non Catholics can't take her seriously (except the few that just fawn all over her) when she always cites pro catholic sources.
Not because she is trying to convert anyone. Because her commentaries are so blindingly pro catholic- NO MATTER what the issue is.
Why do you seem so happy to condemn the U.S. Christine? Of course, there is corruption, it is deplorable, but don't you notice the "high places" in other places too? You look for every opportunity to slam America as the worst. It is the end times, so a global world now. The worst is world wide! So what gives on the extra hating? I don't know......
ReplyDeleteMaybe you are a deeply disappointed person and this is how it shows? Or a classic misanthrope, overly consumed with very specific target? America has been a blessing to the world in times past but it is prophetic where things are to date. It is quite noticeable that thankfulness does not read from your posts, just non-stop criticism of everybody and everything actually. And of course, you life is steller ;)............
9:14 and 9:18
ReplyDeletePerfect observations of the two mosr prolific posters on Cumbey's blog. It needs a disclaimer for sure at the top of each comment section!
Thanks you made my day, thanks to both of you.
I agree (Christine) with that article's conclusion that Jesus was born at Tabernacles, but not with its reasoning. The overwhelming argument for Tabernacles is that that is when all faithful Jews (such as Simeon and Anna in Luke 2) thought that the Messiah would come (certainly it is when he will come again), and God would allow them to recognise him. But the smart argument about the difference in months between the conceptions of John the Baptist and Jesus, together with John's father returning from duty in the Temple and impregnating his wife and the duty rota in the Temple relative to the Jewish calendar, is too simplistic. There are natural uncertainties in accounts that state things in months not weeks, about the length of a pregnancy, and above all the Jews added an extra month every few years to keep their lunar calendar tuned to the solar calendar, and we do not know when in that cycle Jesus was born. (Shmuel Safrai, in ‘A priest of the division of Abijah,’ Jerusalem Perspective vol. 2.5, p.1-2, February 1989, warns about that extra month.) Moreover I think that the argument that Jesus was born in 4BC is overstated. He was obviously born before Herod died but much else that is written is simply plausibility mis-stated as certainty.
ReplyDeleteThere was no reason for the Jews to expect the Messiah at the feast of Tabernacles
ReplyDelete(a time that commemorated living in wandering before the arrival in Canaan and
reminding them they are but sojourners, read transient squatters, from God's
perspective, to humble them).
The only clear cut timing thing is in Genesis when Jacob says that there will
not cease a lawgiver and ruler from Judah until Shiloh comes. In other words,
the Messiah is due when a non Judaean is on the throne of Judah, which was
accomplished with Herod an Idumaean. Also Daniel's 483 weeks.
In any case, it still puts Jesus' conception near or in December, especially
if you calculate His birth in or near September. Another reason for the
December birth date was Hannukah, a non Torah celebration because of the
cleansing of the Temple after Antiochus Epiphanes had defiled it, read
Maccabbees and Josephus.
Somewhere online is a bit of information about the birthdate of the sun not
being a big deal at that time but developed later to ramp up interest.
The tendency of many cultures to have a festival of light at that time,
would also be a good timing to say "you talk about light increasing, here
is the TRUE LIGHT JESUS CHRIST," and even as the light only begins to
increase, not obvious like later in summer, so a conceptus starts small
and grows.
anon 9:18
ReplyDeleteunlike almost any other country, America does its atrocities and conducts its
covert evils in the Name of Christ. That makes anything worse than it is in
itself.
There is a woven into a single tapestry of popular feeling or belief often
at the emotional level not the spelled out where viewed consciously it would
be ridiculous and rejected, a notion of equating America with special exalted
holiness like new Jerusalem or something. An interesting book, Redeemer Nation:
The Idea of America's Millennial Role by Ernest Lee Tuveson tracks the origin
and examples of this.
I am sure there is some dirt on this writer about who I know nothing but his name.
the historical facts cited, the writings, poetry and so forth, speak for themselves.
America is probably not the worst, but second fiddle to Britain and Belgium.
but as long as you see the antichrist and tribulation being about communism and
about destroying America, you do not have a biblical mindset. TO BE IN PROPHECY
YOU GOTTA BE IN THE MIDDLE EAST OR A MAJOR PLAYER IN IT. America and Britain (the
winged lion being both according to several prophecy analysts) certainly have done
that.
PROPHECY CENTERS ON ISRAEL IN PARTICULAR AND THE MIDDLE EAST IN GENERAL. That is the effective center of the world, probably the center of the original single land mass see Genesis chapter one and geologists' theory of Pangaea based on the way
the continents roughly fit like they were once one land mass.
The possibility that destruction or reorganization of America might not be THE TRIBULATION but one of the sorrows that hit before that doesn't seem to cross the
self centered minds.
"the greater self" is the family, tribe, gang, nation, whatever, that by identifying with it you feel greater, and self centeredness gets shifted to that as being a greater self, without evaluation of the sin of the attitude that is still there.
Paul warned that our citizenship ("conversation") is the New Jerusalem and we are sojourners (read transient squatters) on earth now.
We all know what's wrong with other countries and subcultures. NOW LET'S CLEAN UP OUR OWN ACT TAKE THE LOG OUT OF OUR OWN EYES.
let's clean up our own act starting with the sins of pride, vainglory, ambition,
ReplyDeletegreed, sense of self sufficiency, and confusion of liberty of nation from other
nations, or liberty of the individual within the nation, with liberty from sin
and from the devil like the Bible talks about.
we already know about the abortion, perversion, promiscuity, drug abuse, and occultism. There are other issues, and empire and wealth are major pursuits of
devil worshippers and major lures.
how many here are members of fraternities, sororities, masonic and other
ReplyDeletesocial orders? better resign and start repudiating any spiritual links
created by the initiations and praying to Jesus to break all this.
And anyone talking in tongues even privately STOP IT. This losing self
control to do this is just as new age and a deception as the obvious
new age stuff, and I've never known anyone who did this who grew in the
faith just carnal babes with some Scripture memorized. If self control
is one of The Holy Spirit's fruits (it is, Gal. 5:23 "temperance" in KJV)
then how can this surrendering control and being carried along (a feature
style of the pagan spirituality, I Cor 12:2 note "carried away" and "led")
be a style of God? HE works with the human mind not instead of it.
An exception of interest is the author in What Witches Don't Want You To Know
ReplyDeleteupdated version by Mary Lake. but she was forced to turn totally to God because
of the depression and psychic attack on her. But her retention of the charismatic
scene is probably why she could be so blind as to ignore Paul and Acts. 15
that ends the Law of Moses regarding food. The "conviction" she felt while
eating bacon and pork was not felt regarding other prohibited food like shellfish,
that only got dumped after reading Leviticus. But human flesh tastes like pork,
and given her vast blank memory segments and likely use in some rituals and
experiments she may have eaten human flesh and not remembered it, but the
unconscious recognition drove the "conviction."
"There was no reason for the Jews to expect the Messiah at the feast of Tabernacles"
ReplyDeleteNot so! They did they did this, as John 7 makes clear. Why? Zechariah 14:16 makes plain that what we know will be his second coming - but what the Jews regarded (ans still regard) as their unknown Messiah's first coming - will be at that time.
"And anyone talking in tongues even privately STOP IT."
ReplyDeleteKindly stop exceeding your authority and read some better Bible commentators on the difference between private tongues and public (ie in congregation) tongues. The latter must always be interpreted. As for the former, it seems that most of the parts of the brain that are different in humans and primates are to do with speech. You might know that programming languages for computers are known as "high level" languages and that the computer "thinks" in something more basic into which high-level languages have to be translated. Tongues are simply the internal language vocalised and therefore deeper and closer to God.
"America is probably not the worst, but second fiddle to Britain and Belgium."
ReplyDeleteYou're joking, aren't you? The British Empire is gone, history.
And you preach to us, Christine?
ReplyDeleteLet me rephrase that.....and you preach at us, Christine?
If you were humble in the slightest, you would preach to yourself and leave off with the constant critical commentary about absolutely everything. You would have a lot less time at the computer shouting at us to clean up our act if you were following your own counsel (which of course you are not). You live in your head and your head is just on a keyboard and roaming the internet. Phhtt!
Job 1 for you is yourself. Clean that up. Start with you like the rest of us have to do ;).
Anonymous 9:14,
ReplyDeleteWhat would you consider to be an "unbiased" source on matters Catholic? Some mainstream Protestant blog or magazine? If "yes," you are applying double standards and the lack of intellectual honesty and blatant hypocrisy fatally undermines your argument.
Furthermore why in heavens name would Susanna go to a non-Catholic source to explain Catholic doctrine? Would you go to a book about the Australian constitution in order to answer a question pertaining to the U.S. Constitution? Would you use a Lebanese cookbook to cook Spaghetti Bolegnese? Would you go to the Koran in order to answer about the Bible?
Finally, speak for yourself (and the readers who share your view). There are a number of non-Catholic readers here who have benefited greatly from Susanna's contributions over the years (benefiting from someone's work does not mean you have to be in full agreement with them at all times) and "take her seriously," so how dare you try to speak for them?
P.S. Anonymour 9:14
ReplyDeleteAccording to you, if a non-Catholic speaks approvingly of Susanna's work they are by definition "fawning all over her." How patronizing can you get? People (including your fellow non-Catholics) have the right to their own opinions, even when those opinions annoy you. They also have the right to express appreciation for her skills and efforts at this blog.
I urge you to learn how to argue the facts instead of using insults as a mode of communication. It makes the world a better, more loving place for all, but takes both self-awareness and self-control. Susanna and Craig are great role models in this regard.
Fawning all over Susanna?
ReplyDeleteI remember this past snowy winter Constance was terribly afraid Susanna was buried in a snow bank somewhere!!!! The heck with other posters from new england, no need for concern for them.
There is a lot of respect of persons at this site, with too little respect for truth.
I remember a long time follower of Constance, numerous times asking Constance how she is doing? Never one reply. Kinda nasty of Constance really. Perhaps being on a pedestal makes you "brethren", when it should be, are you a believer. Maybe you just need to be a Pharisee to be on the inside! Religionists are relished here!!!! With glee!
As for objectivity goes, several threads back Craig wrote some excellent posts, clearly showing the highly dubious nature of Apostolic Succession. There were no convincing rebuttal!!!
Everyone is equal at Constance's blog. Some are much more equal than others!
Pharasees Against New Age meets here!!!!
ReplyDeleteAny time the Pope, or Catholicism are cast in less than brilliant light here the catholics squeal like little piggies.
ReplyDeleteWhen apostate Protestantism is exposed here, the protestants agree.
That's rather objective, is it not?
The difference lies in that the catholics covet their religious spirit!!!
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/05/27/teacher-suing-school-district-over-bibles-prayer-circles-ministering-on-campus/
ReplyDeleteThe media hides how many of these lawsuits are really from Jews, like this one. Yet, Americans still have no idea who really hates them.
Anon. 9:14, 3:16, et al
ReplyDeleteDon't try to change the subject. You didn't answer Anon. 1:10's question. What would you consider to be an "unbiased" source on matters Catholic?
If Susanna were to presume to use Catholic sources to describe what Protestants believe, then you might have a legitimate beef about her being "biased." But she does not. Moreover, she usually doesn't even discuss Catholic beliefs unless asked to do so or unless it is to explain what she is talking about when using Catholic terminology that Protestants might not understand when she is describing Catholic apostates.
P.S. As for Protestant apostates, Susanna prefers to allow Protestants to police their own!!!
ReplyDeleteSusanna: the official spokes person for the Catholic Church on Cumbey's blog. After Cumbey upset the Catholic Chrucn and thus the new age progress they got control of Constance, how? We shall never know, but Susanna is the 'only voice of reason' here now. By threat, bribes, deception or other, they infect and control.
ReplyDelete3:34
ReplyDelete"the catholics squeal like little piggies"
Are you for real? A person defends their faith robustly and you compare them to a squealing pig?
Disagreeing robustly on points of doctrine is one thing, but do you really expect to be taken seriously when you use "rhetorical tactics" such as this????
Anon. 4:07
ReplyDeleteHave you observed that the question still hasn't been answered...... "What would you consider to be an "unbiased" source on matters Catholic?"
When a person stoops to ad hominem attacks and name-calling, it is merely proof that his opponent has won the argument. Besides, the one "squealing" the loudest here is 3:34 et al......not the Catholics.
Anon 4:18,
ReplyDeleteThis is correct. Ad hominems and name-calling are classic Alinsky tactics.
I suspect the "squealers" are relative newcomers. Anyone who has been around here for awhile and taken in the learning thanks to the superb minds who share knowledge at this blog (these include Protestants, Catholics, and one razor-sharp Jew) will recognize these tactics immediately for what they are.
Coming to a classroom near you?
ReplyDeletehttps://garvan.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/children-in-the-firing-line/
The problem is in the past-
ReplyDeleteSusanna had MUCH to say about the climate control agenda and its evils. But up steps Pope Francis and its all about being a "good steward" of the planet. Forget about TPTB that are behind this- it's all ok because Pope Francis is involved.
She had MUCH to say about the gay lifestyle- but up steps Pope Francis and- NOTHING.
Now the pope basically recognized the Palestinian state a few weeks ago and I bet she will tell us he's promoting peace.
Sorry but I don't trust someone who flip flops so easily.
BY THE WAY- have you ever really looked at Pope Francis?
Rather than see the kindly old man most see- I see a man that looks evil. I think there is MUCH to come from Pope Franny and- it's NOT GOOD!!
4:40
ReplyDeleteStop putting words in Susanna's mouth. Read her post on the previous thread about Climate Change. Read her posts on this thread pertaining to the Irish referendum and the one about what specific opinions of Pope Francis she is bound, by Catholic doctrine, to accept. And if you really want to put it all together, read and contemplate what she says about the upcoming Synod.
But even if you do none of those things, stop putting words in Susanna's mouth. Your CALUMNY is sinful, and you owe her an apology.
One of the anti-RC / anti-Susanna posters above (or maybe it's all the same person) at 9:57 complained that:
ReplyDelete"The entire point of Roman Catholicism is that the church does Bible interpretation for you."
Yes, and we can see how better a job we Protestants have done in letting everyone interpret it by themselves, can't we? I could start a list, but the point is made, yes?
The other point I was going to bring up - about how when explaining or defending a particular point of view one would be expected to use sources that best represent that point of view - has already been excellently covered. That is how good research is done. If you were asked to defend or explain further a Baptist position on something, you would start with something published by the Southern Baptist Convention, or a similar organization.
And even if we grant that such research is biased, it is biased in a GOOD WAY. Not all bias is bad! Only bias that intends to DECEIVE is bad. Any long-time reader of this blog I would be willing to bet would completely agree with me when I say that as far as I can tell, Susanna has never had the intention to deceive the readers here. And.....if that sounds like "fawning" to you, then let it be so in your own ears.
I can tell you proudly that I am biased in my views on many topics! Sadly, there are too many (especially the younger folks) who don't have enough of a foundation for their beliefs to form any bias toward anything. Their thoughts are tossed about by the waves, to and fro, never settling in any one place for very long. Frankly, I am gravely concerned about the future when I think too long on that. But God will be my rock, no matter how crazy this world gets!
Marko
ReplyDeleteYou are so full of crap. It doesn't take a Protestant to explain objectively Protestant doctrine or a catholic to objectively explain catholic doctrine.
It ONLY takes an honest person to examine evidence and report it OBJECTIVELY!!
Not a person who is SWORN to defend regardless of extent of damage.
Wake up and stop being one of the few Protestant butt kissers around here.
You keep on defending the defense of doctrines from the richest, most EVIL religious institution the world has EVER SEEN. See where that gets you.
And before you say anything, no I am not speaking in hate. I speak in truth. There is a difference. Those that can't handle the truth always claim hate from an opposing point of view. That is their only defense. And you are fueling it.
Anonymous 2:08 That is a very intelligent response. The New Age leadership wants to see Christians and Jews demeaned with wide verbal brush strokes so that nothing supports any views they hold. Attack Catholics with wide brush stokes and anything Christian will appear to be suspect. Based on what I've seen in life, most people are vague in their support of the religious group they associate with. They like the social contact and go along with the teachings. Attack any Christian group and you put doubts in their mind about what their group is teaching. The vote in Ireland is proof of that. Ask someone what they think of the teachings of their denomination and they will say "Yes, probably." To them Jesus is God and a good role model but the establishment connected with the name is suspect. Destroy the establishment and what you have left is cafeteria religion.
ReplyDeleteanon 10:08
ReplyDelete"Attack Catholics with wide brush stokes and anything Christian will appear to be suspect" yes, most of the arguments used by protestants of the uber anti catholic
sort are also in use by atheists and pagans against Christianity, which arguably
has its roots in the RC and earlier EO church, though the latter is not on anyone's
radar usually. atheists and moslems argue we borrowed everything such as Christ's divinity, Incarnation and death and Resurrection, from pagans, pagans argue ditto
saying we stole it all incl. some holidays and symbolism (debatable) and should
therefore be pagan.
cafeteria religion - yes, this is the BIG problem where the establishment
ReplyDeleteis taken as the religion itself, RC and EO need to train up laity to be
theologians everyone needs a dash of seminary training, so they know
not only what buy why they believe, and so forth. then if the establishment
goes bad they keep the basics.
the seamless robe effect is dangerous.
10:00 AM I think yours is an excellent response. Disagreeing is one thing, but fighting attitudes and fighting words only play in the the hands of the common enemy.
ReplyDeleteChristine, you are incessant in attacking Catholics to trump up your exalted EO and an fault finder extraordinaire. You are one of those who keeps the problem going.
ReplyDeleteyou are one of those proud rogues that runs for cover under your EO banner when you want to sound religious and devoted. You esteem yourself above everyone.
Yours is a very unhelpful attitude.
anon 11:48
ReplyDeleteit is a matter of supporting truth where it is, and a lot is in RC and Protestantism, and opposing error where it is, and a lot is in RC and
Protestantism.
Frankly the need for a pope to INTERPRET what has already been established
by ecumenical councils long ago based in turn on Scripture, baffles me.
One need only rely on the dogmatic definitions and hash out operational
details as applicable locally to local situations. Seems to me the only
use for a pope is to CREATE doctrine, or figure out how to interpret a
new (therefore false) doctrine as true like Immaculate Conception of Mary.
ancient references to her as immaculate, etc. were about her personal
life after her birth. "full of grace" is almost the same statement Judith
is addressed with, in the book of Judith, so clearly is not about mystical
specialness just that she has been given special favor by God to accomplish
something and/or is in a very good standing with God. not lack of original
sin or anything like that, not even lack of personal sin. the address is
irrelevant, therefore, to both issues, original and personal sin.
Lucifer is laughing at this blog.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 4:40
ReplyDeletePope Francis "looks" evil? That's absurd. You make it sound as if Pope Francis bares a resemblance to Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars or Davros, creator of the Daleks from Doctor Who. "Behind this smiling face, kind gestures, is a heart of evil." Really? Only God can see what's lurking in people's souls and hearts.
"Really? Only God can see what's lurking in people's souls and hearts."
ReplyDeletethat is totally false by experience of many and totally unbiblical. Nowhere
does the Bible say ONLY God can see, but that God DOES see and nothing can
be hid from Him.
a quick study of how to spot lying written up by or gleaned from interviews
with interrogators will knock that garbage right out of your head. also talks
from predators who tell how they pick their prey. and what people learn by
trial and error to stay out of trouble. and pattern spotting when you learn to
cue on microgestures and microexpressions that often can't be seen consciously
but do show in photography when the film is slowwwed way down. things like
that.
I am so tired of hearing this incredible lie over and over from all segments of
Christianity.
That said, I don't know what to make of Pope Francis I. But since he was part of
the imprisonment and torture of some of the liberation theology crew, and they
and he forgave each other, I can only assume his kindly exterior may be deceptive.
Our Lord Jesus Christ also refutes this notion, Luke 6:45
ReplyDeleteand MAtt. 12:35 out of the treasure of his heart a man speaketh.
I tim. 5:24 also says that of some men their evil goes before them
(is noticeable in advance) while in others' cases it is only
known later.
as for Pope Francis looking evil, obviously it is not physical
shape and features but something in the manner, the eyes, the
voice, the expressions of the face how he uses his facial muscles
not the original shape of them. saying that he is being made out
to look like some stereotypical villain is ridiculous. Those are
at best extreme depictations of the extreme implications of some
expressions the face can take, exaggerated to make them overdevelopment
of some features and underdevelopment of others. In general it is the
statemanlike men of poise and power that you need to look out for as
trouble.
a little humor Lutheran Satire Frank the Hippie Pope
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEchg1KhmTY
"Our Lord Jesus Christ also refutes this notion, Luke 6:45
ReplyDeleteand MAtt. 12:35 out of the treasure of his heart a man speaketh.
I tim. 5:24 also says that of some men their evil goes before them
(is noticeable in advance) while in others' cases it is only
known later. "
That is why you have been exposed and called on the carpet so many times here at this blog! Your own mouth (keyboard) makes you easy to spot by your rudeness in attitude and behavior. And all the unbiblical stances you take and won't take the scripture as the authority (in your mind you are). All the while calling Him Lord but not living as though God has the last word on the those things. That is called lipservice and anyone can do that one. You have been found very unloving and unforgiving repeatedly and slapped this blog in the face with such behavior. And on and on and on and on you continue to argue with GOD. You should have the decency to stay quiet rather than preach at others. You just can't seem to ever be still and know that He is God by such things as you display here.
As to your intent, well that is the part God knows and we cannot. Short of that you show us in your multitude of words, that you don't walk the talk.
I have never been as rude as the people here who "rebuke" me here.
ReplyDeleteChristine,
ReplyDeleteThat may not be your intention, God knows and I don't. But why you won't take the advice of people here and check your own behavior rather than deflect to and blame others? You clearly are rude and of a superior attitude toward people why this is ok with you is beyond me. You jump on every opportunity to put other opinions down. You say you are only telling the truth when you come out rudely swinging. Most would at least question themselves to see if others have a valid reason for addressing them about these kind of things. Where is your conscience? Have you no conviction about such? Do you ever ask forgiveness of people? Because you should.
You excuse your attitude and behavior as though you think yourself incapable of these displays, but clearly you are as much a sinner as the rest of us so why try to defend wrong in your own life? Confession is good for the soul you know.
Follow your own advice to others and clean up your own act.
Be reasonable for once.
9:30 PM
ReplyDeleteThe Jews in charge are occultists, whores who worship any god but the God who delivered them from Egypt, spiritual whores expelled and scattered multiple times. Whores who deceive the nations. Israel is the mother of all harlots. She crucified her husband, refusing even HIM who came to remind her to keep her covenant. Now, a woman scorned she seeks vengeance against those who 'stole' her husband Jesus. Her weapon of choice is deception. YES they ALWAYS sacrifice their own and the protocols say that they will do so. They goal is vengeance, not the preservation of their own people. This is the insanity that deceives the nations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJxdIXgMGAI&list=PLUi4_WtYJUAUV2vUycT1q5S_r_4aBLq4S
"You have been had." This very statement implies ownership and vengeance, and it came from you Mary Christine Erickson.
Christine, please say you will get the book I called to your attention. It may clear up many things for you. I don't want to post the relevant section from the book here, but if I am pushed to post it, I will.
ReplyDeleteConstance,
ReplyDeletePlease remove the posts above that refer to the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", which is a document forged in Russia for the purposes of spreading hatred toward Jews. It was distributed during the Cold War by the USSR (Andropov) to Islamic nations that were seen as a "petri dish" in which to grow anti-Western, anti-Christian hatred. It helped to birth modern Islam-based terrorism.
To the poster who keeps spewing anti-Semitic garbage here, please go away.
To the rest who are interested in more info, read the book "Disinformation", by Ion Pacepa and Ronald Rychlak.
Here's an article that briefly covers the topic:
http://tinyurl.com/p9rvwu6
(I don't like posting links to the UK Daily Mail, because of all the stupid pictures over on the right, and my apologies in advance for doing so to those who may take offense, so be forewarned. If you avoid websites because of the sensual or provocative pictures they carry, don't go to the link above.)
Jews know as little about Christianity as Christians know about Jews. Both sides know the information they are given by others.
ReplyDeleteThere is a branch of Christianity which should be as much of a problem to Christians as they are to Jews. Check out the book Vengeance Is Ours: The Church in Dominion (Paperback)by Albert James Dager These are cult like firm believers who could be compared with Islamists in their forcible actions toward others.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dominionism
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Fellowship
http://cumbey.blogspot.com/search?q=doug+coe
Yes, there is a branch of Christianity which fits in with what New Agers warn about. In the book "Through the '80s" put out in 1980 by The World Future Society one of the chapter titles is The Tyranny of the Righteous. It is not the only chapter dealing with religion.
Does anyone really expect the average Jew to know more about the New Age movement than Christians who read this blog do? Probably some thirty years ago the warning was given that the New Age movement will pit monotheistic group against another monotheistic group.
Jews won't use this blog to go against Christians, but some New Agers will use it to pit Christians against Jews since it is Christian oriented.
"You have been had." This very statement implies ownership and vengeance, and it came from you Mary Christine Erickson."
ReplyDeleteownership by who me? it is satan who hates Jews because he can't
get at Jesus who has gotten one up on you, he can't have vengeance
against Jesus so he goes after the JEws from whom JEsus came, and
of which we in fact are a part, though most Christians and Jews
would scream bloody murder if told that.
They are not jealous about Jesus, they never accepted Him in
the first place. resentment about loss of position under pagan
Rome and a habit of hostility and anger at the Jews who were
being converted a lot.
Think a minute. Why is it that the occultists are always at
the root of anti-Semitic movements?
How does your attitude fit with this from Paul
"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being
a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with
them partakes of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
"BOAST NOT AGAINST THE BRANCHES, BUT IF THOU BOAST, THOU
BEAREST NOT THE ROOT, BUT THE ROOT THEE....
"AS CONCERNING THE GOSPEL, ARE ENEMIES FOR YOUR SAKE: BUT
AS TOUCHING THE ELECTION, THEY ARE BELOVED FOR THE FATHERS'
SAKES." Romans 11:17,18 28
you have been had, fooled by satan who hates the Jews
because Jesus is Jewish, and he can't touch Jesus so he
goes after the next best thing.
and my last name is Erikson without a c.
As for the Khazars, identity by adoption and conversion
is as good as identity by blood. ask yourself why David
could be counted as an Israelite at all given his Moabite
blood? why could he be over Israel as king when his Moabite
blood would PROHIBIT this?
then read Ruth the last few verses. people say "a son is
born to Ruth" then Naomi takes the infant in her bosom
and nurses him, i.e., lets the infant suckle her dry,
milkless breast. what is the point of this? and then THE
SAME PEOPLE SAY "A SON IS BORN TO NAOMI."
by this ritual act of adoption she shifted him from being
a Moabite's son to being her own son, legally erasing the
Moabite taint. Deut 23:3 note Deut. 17:15
note also I Chronicles 2:34, 35 a part Egyptian wasn't to
be counted in Israel until the third generation but this
one was, but note, he was the son of a man's slave he
married to his daughter, so the ownership of the woman's
reproductive capacity remained with the patrilineage
and the boy was effectively adopted to his maternal
grandfather's lineage, so counted as Judahite.
things aren't as simple as you make them out to be.
anon 1:25 you are complaining of attitude because you couldn't
ReplyDeleteget me to back down on content.
anon 1:13 post the relevant parts and save me the money.
anon 1:29 bravo and I second the request to Constance to delete
the anti-Semitic ranters.
anon 1:59 excellent book about dominionism that you mentioned,I
recommend it also, and here is a very interesting book you can
NEW AGE DECEPTION IN THE HOLY LAND by Stephen Volk, it is on
amazon.com kindle for 2.99, apparently only on kindle.
BTW genetic tests on Ashkenazic Jews show semitic
ReplyDeletelineage is present. most such tests are Y only or
mtDNA only which are only top line and bottom line
of the pedigree of current persons, and what is in
the rest of the pedigree does not show. And that
can be anything. An entire genome workup is more
expensive and more comprehensive.
Complicating things is that semites migrated into
those Scythic lands, and of course the legend has
the Khazars who moved west marrying into the
east European Jewish population, so you have a mix
here and JEwish blood as well as de facto adoption.
The whole Khazar thing is, therefore, on the basis
of my post on this and on the basis of Jewish blood
actually present in modern ashkenazics, irrelevant.
Christine 6:35 P.M.
ReplyDeleteRE: That said, I don't know what to make of Pope Francis I. But since he was part of the imprisonment and torture of some of the liberation theology crew,and they and he forgave each other
This is simply not true. Ordinarily, I ignore your bogus comments on things Catholic, but this particular lie is one that has been debunked both by the religious media as well as the secular media. You really need to cite your sources before making such statements as if they were irrefutably settled historical facts.
Anyone interested in looking at evidence that this is not true need only read:
BERGOGLIO'S LIST:How a Young Francis Defied a Dictatorship and Saved Dozens of Lives.
http://www.amazon.com/Bergoglios-List-Francis-Defied-Dictatorship/dp/1618906267
_____________________________________________________________________
When writing this book, the Italian journalist Nello Scavo who was the book's author expected to find incriminating evidence to suggest that Jorge Bergoglio was an accomplice in the Dirty War carried out in Argentina by the fascist military junta. What he did not expect to discover was that Father Jorge Bergoglio was the "Scarlet Pimpernel" of Argentina......many of whose rescues are still being kept secret to this very day.
Bergoglio’s List: An Unexpected Discovery
January 30, 2015
The story of the Pope’s actions during Argentina’s Dirty War is as riveting as it is inspiring.
K. V. Turley
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/3661/bergoglios_list_an_unexpected_discovery.aspx
___________________________________________________________________
“Bergoglio’s List”:How Francis saved dissidents from Argentina’s military dictatorship
9/25/2013
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/bergoglio-papa-el-papa-pope-28098/
Dear Marko, you wrote: One of the anti-RC / anti-Susanna posters above (or maybe it's all the same person) at 9:57 complained that: "The entire point of Roman Catholicism is that the church does Bible interpretation for you." Yes, and we can see how better a job we Protestants have done in letting everyone interpret it by themselves, can't we?
ReplyDeleteI am the one who wrote those words. This is my first response to your critique. I am not the one who responded that you were "so full of crap" and I regret such phrases. As for Susanna, if people don't like what she writes here then they should take it up with her rather than grumble to Constance, and if they do take it up with her then they should be courteous. As a protestant I have had my differences with her here and found that courtesy is met with courtesy, and vigour with vigour. Those are simply norms of civilised rhetoric.
I suspect that in your comment which I have italicised you are complaining about heresy and disunity. Regarding heresy, certainly some protestant sects are heretical but the entire Roman Catholic church is, if you look at papal infallibility and prayers addressed to Mary asking her specifically for things that only the godhead has authority to do. Regarding disunity, the concept necessarily refers to disunity between rival church hierarchies, and the apostolic church structure described in the New Testament does not have a hierarchy above congregations. Once a congregation's founding apostolos had passed on, those people were "the church in town X", having internal leadership by a council of episkopoi (plural!) synonymous with presbyteroi - one word denotes function, the other seniority - but nothing above that. The structure of the apostolic church was decentralised. Under such a system the notion of schism into competing systems simply does not arise.
cont
ReplyDeleteTHE JESUIT WHO HUMILIATED THE GENERALS
......Unknown until yesterday. Because to lift the veil from this hidden face of the past of Pope Francis for the first time a book has now been published by EMI, small in its dimensions but explosive in its content. It will be in Italian bookstores as of October 3, and then gradually in eight other countries of the world where translations are already underway. “Bergoglio's List" is its title. And one thinks immediately of “Schindler's list” immortalized by the film of Steven Spielberg. Because the substance is the same, as the subtitle of the book says: “Those saved by Francis during the dictatorship. The story never told.”
There is in the final part of the book the complete transcription of the questioning to which the then-archbishop of Buenos Aires was subjected on November 8, 2010.
In front of three judges, Bergoglio was hammered for three hours and forty-five minutes with insidious questions, above all by the attorney Luis Zamora, the lawyer for the victims. A key passage of the questioning comes when Bergoglio is asked to justify his meetings with the generals Jorge Videla and Emilio Massera, in 1977.
Two priests very close to him, Frs. Franz Jalics and Orlando Yorio, had been abducted and confined in a secret location. The first had been for two years his spiritual director, and the second his professor of theology, before they dedicated themselves to working with the poor of the "villas miseria" of Buenos Aires, which had made them a target of the repression. When they were captured, the then-provincial of the Jesuits found out where they were being kept. He learned that they were at the infamous Escuela Superior de Medicina of the naval officers, from which few came out alive.
To ask for their liberation, Bergoglio wanted to meet above all with General Videla, who at the time was the first in command of the junta. And he was able to do so twice, the second time convincing the priest who said Mass at the home of the general to pretend to be sick so that he could replace him. From his conversation with the general he received definitive confirmation that the two Jesuits were in the prisons of the navy.
So there was nothing else to do than to go to Admiral Massera, an irascible and vindictive personage. Again there were two meetings. The second was very brief. "I told him: Look, Massera, I want them back alive. I got up and left,” Bergoglio stated during the questioning of 2010.
The following night fathers Jalics and Yorio were drugged, loaded onto a helicopter, and unloaded in the middle of a swamp.
But the two priests, during six months of imprisonment and torture, had been made to believe that they had been informed on by their father provincial. And in a file of the secret service someone wrote: "In spite of the good will of father Bergoglio, the Society of Jesus in Argentina has not cleaned itself up," insinuating complicity with the repression.
"A dirty trick" was the dismissive comment on this insinuation from the prosecutor of the 1985 trial that sentenced to life in prison both Videla and Massera.
As for Frs. Yorio and Jalics, the former died in the middle of the 1990's, while the latter acknowledged the falsity of the accusations against his superior, with whom he was publicly reconciled..... read entire article...
http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350611?eng=y
cont...
Susanna,
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bing.com/search?q=victims%20of%20dirty%20war%20forgive%20bergoglio&pc=cosp&ptag=D050415A940B268F4F&form=CONBDF&conlogo=CT3210127
between your sources and these articles one will just have to make up
their own minds. Meanwhile, an ability to skate between two systems
may or may not bode well. And there may be reasons other than what we
would like for why he chose to help those he did. I haven't read all
these articles, I merely remember one that referred to some liberal
priests forgiving him I think in person a mutual reconciliation.
anon 5:27
you cannot go by what the NT shows in the early and low population phase
of the church. the church in such and such a town is going even then
to have one overseer as with Timothy set over Ephesus, which in turn
would have several congregations as time passed. That would be a
hierarchy external to the particular congregation. The infiltration
of heresy made greater coordination and synods (there were regional
and local ones before Nicea) necessary.
prayer to Mary and other saints, using phrasing more appropriate to
address to God - yes, that is a serious problem. and it seems to have
its origin in a mix of scholasticism which proposes to figure out
everything and view everything in mechanistic systematized ways, and
marian visions which the RC says no one is required to believe, but
which have nonetheless, through believing priests and bishops, and
writers, informed church doctrine (of the secondary sort not the central
Creedal sort) to some extent, and practice to a great extent.
cont....
ReplyDeleteAs for Father Jalics, it was not merely a matter of forgiving Pope Francis. It was a matter of his acknowledging the falsity that he had been betrayed by then Father Bergoglio.
'Bergoglio's List': Francis's Pre-Papacy Role Saving Dissidents from Argentina's Military Dictatorship
It (the book Bergoglio's List") contains the personal stories of people—with names and faces—saved through the efforts of the future pontiff. An appendix features the transcript of the Nov. 8, 2010 testimony Father Bergoglio gave over the course of nearly four hours of interrogation in front of three judges regarding crimes committed in the Escuela de Mecanica de la Armada (ESMA), the Navy School of Mechanics, that operated during the dictatorship period.
These crimes included torture of the two "kidnapped clerics" mentioned by the New Yorker—Fathers Franz (or Francisco) Jalics and Orlando Yorio. The surviving priest, Jalics, made a public statement in March from his home in a German monastery, admitting that he once was led to believe that Bergoglio had denounced him, but added, "at the end of the '90s, after numerous conversations, it became clear to me that this suspicion was unfounded. It is therefore wrong to assert that our capture took place at the initiative of Father Bergoglio."
http://cdn.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/30/Bergoglio-s-List-Francis-Pre-Papacy-Role-in-Saving-Dissidents-From-Argentina-s-Military-Dictatorship
__________________________________________________________________
From the New York Daily News.....
Imprisoned priest Francisco Jalics breaks silence over Pope Francis, clearing him for involvement in ‘Dirty War’
Jalics had been silent for years in a German monastery. He once thought then-Cardinal Bergoglio played a role in his arrest.
DAILY NEWS STAFF/
Published: Thursday, March 21, 2013, 10:38 AM
...A priest who was imprisoned for five months during Argentina’s “Dirty War” of the 1970s has cleared Pope Francis for an alleged connection to the arrest.
Argentine critics of Jorge Cardinal Bergoglio have waged a whisper campaign against the new Pope by attempting to link him to leftist purges conducted by the nation’s ruling junta — citing circumstantial evidence about the “disappearance” of two priests, Francisco Jalics and the late Orlando Yorio.
But Jalics, who lives in a monastery in Germany, cleared the air Wednesday.
“I myself was once inclined to believe that we were the victims of a denunciation (by Bergoglio),” Jalics said in a statement. “(But) at the end of the '90s, after numerous conversations, it became clear to me that this suspicion was unfounded.
“It is therefore wrong to assert that our capture took place at the initiative of Father Bergoglio,” he continued....read entire article....
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/priest-clears-pope-dirty-war-involvement-article-1.1294897
Anon. 5:27 P.M.
ReplyDeleteRe: As for Susanna, if people don't like what she writes here then they should take it up with her rather than grumble to Constance, and if they do take it up with her then they should be courteous. As a protestant I have had my differences with her here and found that courtesy is met with courtesy, and vigour with vigour.
If I am merely answering Constance's question about things Catholic ( while clearly describing them as Catholic and not Protestant beleifs ) and am not proselytizing, what legitimate reason would anyone have to "take it up with me?"
"anon 5:27 you cannot go by what the NT shows in the early and low population phase
ReplyDeleteof the church."
Watch me, Christine! The bible is good enough for me even if it is not good enough for you - Anon@5.27pm.
"the church in such and such a town is going even then to have one overseer as with Timothy set over Ephesus".
And when Timothy is dead and gone? By that time the congregation will be spiritually mature and fit to be run by in internal council of episkopoi: just as the New Testament describes.]
By the way, Susanna is right about Bergoglio and the Argentinian fascist junta. I looked into this myself.
susanna, if I am wrong I apologize, the writer I relied on whoever
ReplyDeletehe was could have been wrong.
however, heresy or excess ecumenism of the religious indifferentist
sort and weak handling of moral issues and discipline does not wear
a reliable political face.
I think the person seeing evil in his face may be knee jerk responding
to the papacy per se and the fact that he is so conciliatory so it
must be manipulative OR THAT THAT PERSON HAS EXPERIENCE WITH PEOPLE
WHO HAVE THE POPE'S KIND OF STYLE AND EXPRESSION, AND KNOWS TROUBLE
WHEN HE SEES IT. Time will tell.
however, the oft repeated refrain that none but God can see into
someone's heart is a totally unbiblical and very dangerous lie.
and precisely the sort of thinking that has got some people robbed,
murdered or worse yet raped because they ignore their instincts.
It is a falsehood unknown to those who daily apply the ability to
read hearts in order to accurately pick their prey, or to recognize
and counterattack predators, and interrogators, jurors and others
who have to figure out who is lying will laugh in your face. People
whose survival, advancement in their line of work, and earning
effectiveness depend on their ability to read who is corruptible,
and focus on them, and who is not and not waste time (prostitutes
and con men) and those who teach self defense and those who apply
it, will know it is false. Those in gangs and mafia and personal
ongoing dangerous situations like abusive families and spouses,
know from subtle signals when an attack is imminent signals most
people will never spot.
anon 6:02
you are reading into the NT not reading out of it. An episkopos is
an OVERSEER. how many overseers do you have on a production line,
for instance? that would be the head elder. sure there would be a
council but you could expect many congregations in a big city and
one overseer over the city's congregation. Given the problems in
Ephesus and in Corinth, what makes you think such people would EVER
be spiritually mature and fit enough to run themselves?
this eisegesis (rather than exegesis) is informed by your own
democratic bias, which is in turn I suspect informed, as it is with
most people, less with how well something gets done or how well
coordinated, than with making sure no one tells you what to do.
Sin of pride.
This does not mean an overseer or an elder can't be bad, either
incompetent or a false teacher outright or just unsavory. No one
is talking about something inherited like a monarchy which in
turn is not correctable.
Christine,
ReplyDeleteCongregations were founded in various places, and each congregation was run, once its founding apostolos or church planter (such as Peter or Paul) had passed on, by a council of men known as its presbyteroi or episkopoi. The presbyteroi and episkopoi are the same men, for St Paul calls for the presbyteroi of the congregation at Ephesus (Acts 20:17) and then addresses them collectively as episkopoi (20:28). (This calls for a Bible that includes the original Greek; translations can be confusing as the words have changed in meaning during church history.) The plurals in James 5:14 and Acts 14:23 & 20:17 show that each congregation had more than one. The word presbyteros denotes seniority and is best translated as ‘Elder,’ while episkopos refers to their function, oversight. This is the word translated as ‘bishop,’ but today in some church systems one bishop/episkopos oversees many congregations in a reversal of the scriptural relation. The change came about in two steps, first (early on) to one-man leadership of each congregation (‘the bishop’). A few centuries later many congregations had come under one bishop, in a hierarchy. But by what authority were these changes made.
I have cited the scriptures and made inference from them. Readers may judge for themselves which of us is conducting exegesis and which eisegesis.
"however, the oft repeated refrain that none but God can see into
ReplyDeletesomeone's heart is a totally unbiblical and very dangerous lie"
Believe me Christine, nobody here wants to look into your heart. Your posts are scary enough.
You think you have us neatly figured out in your mind and that is a crock! your attempts at reading our minds and putting words in our mouths is a total joke. But you are that arrogant in your assumptions and so wrong.
So wrong. it is your 'god-complex' showing again.
Leave God's job to Him. You are not-repeat not!-The Holy Spirit.
anon 6:40
ReplyDeleteTimothy was overseer over all Ephesus Christians, and given that in
Rome there was a house church of Priscilla and Aquila and other
congregations besides, there is going to be more than one overseer
in the town one per church the episkopos was ONE of the elders, and
an episkopos for the town, or you have a few hundred corwding into one
small building. not realistic.
The pattern Paul set of putting a man over each town's Christians would
be retained, and WAS retained as you can see from Clement of Rome's
letter answering a question the Corinthians had sent him. Notice he
didn't barge in uninvited.
Paul himself calls himself an "ELDER" and only occasionally references
his apostleship which everyone knew about anyway, mostly in context
of some dispute. Yet we all know there was only one Apostle Paul who
set up many churches but many elders yet he called himself an elder.
Obviously you can have a single overseer who is over the other elders,
but is also in the category of "elder." John the Apostle in his letter
calls himself "elder." This kind of office then can have several
other offices contained in it, but it is definitely over the diaconate
which was originally apparently to handle the day to day financial
and other worldly relevant business of the church. Peter also calls
himself an "elder."
In Titus 1:5 titus is told he is to appoint elders in every church
in Crete. Clearly Titus is the overseer over all the Christians in
Crete, but eventually with enough Christians there would be an
overseer in each town. And with enough Christians in each town,
there would be more than one congregation in a given town, so
these several congregations in a town would be answerable to the
one overseer for the town.
If you read the writings of the men of the second and third
century, you can get a glimpse of how things were developing,
continuing the pattern set in the NT adapting it to meet the
changing circumstances. But most of these letters are about doctrine
or faithfulness to The Lord Jesus Christ, often in anticipation of
persecution, so you don't see much of church organization but it
is there.
Just like social and political organization develops with population,
so does church organization DEVELOPS along an existing pattern in
this case, not limited to some rigid thing designed to isolate
everyone. That is just not biblical, and not consistent with the
cosmopolitan life of those days which the church and Apostles made
use of to aid spread of the Gospel.
Paul tells the Romans he wanted to visit them to give them some
gift to establish them, so clearly they were without formal
organization and were the result of travelers and exiles who brought
the faith and converted others. Neither Peter or Paul had converted
the ones in Rome but others who came to Rome brought the faith, then
Peter and Paul brought the Apostolic Succession and ordained their
elders and one overseer, to who Peter gave his episcopacy before he
was martyred, so they were not left without an overseer and he died
no longer the bishop there.
Paul apparently left this to PEter, not wanting to build on another's
work, the other not being Peter who had not yet visited or they would
have already been "established" but whoever else or several had brought
The Faith to Rome.
you sound like you are relying on some Congregationalist or Baptist
manual's interpretation rather than paying attention. There is NOTHING
to indicate that the office of overseer was going to evaporate and
they were going to manage themselves.
Christine at 2:19. The theme about New Age in the Holy Land looks interesting but I don't do kindle. I have enough about this already, but too few to share the information.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the book, I shared the thought about you with two others quoting from the book. If they think I should openly share, I will. You can always get the book through interlibrary loan. I don't want to get into a tit for tat with you publicly about this. Either you consider the possibility of what it says or you don't. The results don't affect me. It may help you understand your response here.
I don't buy Constance's line about freedom of speech on the blog. You appear to be her alter ego, speaking to everyone who posts here, now, for a long time in the past and probably into the future. Constance appears to be the ghost behind the curtain, Wizard of Oz style. Frankly, re discussion of New Age, boring. You don't have much of a clue and she keeps the illusion going.
Ahem!
ReplyDeleteGod oversees His Church.
Men just get to be parts of His Body. God governs from within the throne room that is heart of each believer (who are His by repentance and faith becoming born again by the Spirit-His forgiven who in turn can and do forgive (Christine)) and the differing roles and functions of those respective parts bring honor to Him. People in the religious realm are merely on the outside looking in, being given way to much credit-thus you have unbiblical hierarchy-men lording over other men (of mere religion).
It is level at the foot of the cross of Christ so He is the Exalted Head and Lord of His disciples, therefore, leaving no room for men to boast.
But then you don't get that do you, Christine?
If you were truly governed by the indwelling Holy Spirit of the Living God you would already know this. The Spirit would have taught this to you already and not your own brand of bible analysis ;).
anon 8:15
ReplyDeleteyou don't need to buy a kindle you can down load a kindle
program free for pc or mac and read on your computer. but
that's up to you, just thought I'd mention it in case you
didn't know about this option.
I don't do kindle as a device either.
anon 8:18
ReplyDeleteyour position is totally unbiblical. the heart is wicked and
deceptive and unreliable, we are warned not to walk in the
imaginations of our hearts or the desire of our eyes.
While God does work in the believer's hearts to the extent
they allow Him to do so, He has given explicit instructions
for church government.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jvE-0_XO2xg
ReplyDeletePersons who know the truth, because they are from there, were raised there, have seen it first hand and know the reality of the current deception and who are Jewish, are not able to be labeled anti-semetic...which means racist, as in the race card, as in look away, look away, or you might learn something are often called "self hating Jews".
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=awCOSRg-gks
Shall we silence these voices? And what if we can not silence them? Shall they become victims of being not 'Jewish enough'? Not the right kind of Jews? Which type of Jew shall we allow to post on the world wide web? Who owns this surveillance system? Who owns the world? Who owns the ideas, the attitudes, the right sort of thoughts? Which people will beat and give shots to a Rabbi? It was Zionists, not Christians, shall I repost that video? Who is the thought police here at Constances blog? One group thinks they own what they do not. Mary said, you are owned. I see.
you are owned, you have been had is an old way up to present
ReplyDeletetimes of saying YOU HAVE BEEN MADE A FOOL OF AND CHEATED BY
LIARS.
as for complaints of excesses and wrong doing that is a different
issue from Zionism per se. I remember when I was growing up,
and the Israelis didn't have things under as much control as
now, and a bit later on, that the Palestinians were bombing
and shooting Israeli children, blowing up school and public
busses, things like that.
Yes. But church government is of a much abused sort in many circles, as the ones which you so often describe, when men are the ones given "status" and supposed "unctions" not intended for men at all (because pride corrupts) but belong exclusively to God's Spirit to minister through humble believing men that the Spirit indwells and comes upon--the 'en' and 'epi' terms in Greek language--to His church.
ReplyDeleteYes. The heart is wicked (who can know it? see Christine you can't know what you think you know lol!) and it is only those filled with the Holy Spirit that can actually honor God but...and very important here---qualified by surrender to God to please Him and not men. The "if you love Me , keep My commandments" want-to (not have-to of mere religion) variety. Only the power of the Holy Spirit can perform this.(how are you doing with that one is what you should be asking your own soul).
It is grace that God wants in the governing of His church 'from the within to the without' (what we can see) Christine, and not law man-made religion prescibes in men lorded over other men.
There has been a parallel from the beginning. The true church of God is men who are God pleasers in their surrender (death to their fleshly will) and the spiritual counterfeit is merely men who name His name but produce no true spiritual fruit unto the Lord but instead unto men who are, thus and only, man-pleasers. See Matthew Chp 7: 21-23 and let the Spirit of Jesus Christ reveal this truth to you.
Such is much of what is called church today in this apostate age, regardless of denomination.
Will God truly find faith on the earth? Much is not true biblical faith out there in Christendom. And God is the judge of that not you nor I for we can only discern (judge in this passage) as in "by their fruit you shall know them" but many things are yet unrevealed and up to God anyway, to show what is at the core of who and what is called christian. God will be sorting this all out....and soon..not later.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gAuU7GTj9ik
ReplyDeletePalistine was already inhabited by Jews and Arabs. They did not have these conflicts we have seen today. Bad guys running ISREAL is the agressor and the ONLY reason Americans do not know this is because they live under Gobbels media. LEGALLY. So much for never again, we have been deceived. That land is Israel to Zionists, Scofield Bible readers and the bank.
blah blah, all just excuses to run loose and do your own
ReplyDeletething. Charismatic maybe?
sure sometimes men lord it over others Paul or Peter warn
not to do this, so does Jesus. That doesn't mean some
authority isn't needed. Sure The Holy Spirit doesn't limit
Himself to structure and people of rank.
and if you are serious about honoring God and His word
you will face this fact. Instead of cherry picking Scripture
to suit your purposes. And you want me to be a man pleaser
by pretending things didn't happen that did on some specious
misinterpretation of some Scripture out of context, exactly
the same reasons horrific things are covered up in RC and
elsewhere, and refuse to accept the rebuke I gave you by
posting where Jesus says how to deal with non repentant
people and I am supposed to show "love" and "forgiveness"
to a certain person IN ORDER TO PLEASE YOU.
who set you up as judge to lord it over me?
Oh how precious. We have all sorts of people channeling God and his messages. Who needs the Bible when we have all of these special people who are beyond the obvious words and are more up to date than the words in the Bible. How New Age to be up to date with them.
ReplyDeleteCute...every researcher knows to know who uses Israel vs ISREAL (or Is Real)in their comments. Are you so stupid to give yourself away so easily?
ReplyDeletePope Franny takes a political stand, looks like there is only room for Zionist Christians in the NWO. As suspected, no surprise here.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.algemeiner.com/2015/05/31/president-obama-and-pope-francis-both-admit-that-anti-zionism-is-anti-semitism/
AND maybe next week...Pope Warns Bible Readers : God Could Be in Disagreement With UN and Balfor Agreement : Determines Only Church Officials Can Interpret Scripture
LOL
http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/05/31/president-obama-and-pope-francis-both-admit-that-anti-zionism-is-anti-semitism/
ReplyDeleteIZ Reawl Baby. Gots ta be for the right kinda politics, only the right kinda jews and the right thinking if ya wants ta be alive in da New Weird Order. Oh Constance please delete the haters, we cant have no other ideas round here. Who is fer group think, ME!
All people, ALL people, Every person has the right to exist. Even people who do not agree with you, politically...as in an ISM, any ISM. Fo'Shizzle my Nizzle...
ReplyDeletehttp://m.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/the-traditional-view-of-israel-is-dying-a-slow-death
ReplyDeletehttp://catholicozarks.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-heresy-of-christian-zionism.html
ReplyDelete"people and I am supposed to show "love" and "forgiveness"
ReplyDeleteto a certain person IN ORDER TO PLEASE YOU."
How incredible an excuse is this. Not to please people (even yourself) but the Lord.
That is your inconvenient truth isn't it? (and the gorilla on your back).
Ephesian 4:29-32 spells it and those are not my words now are they?
But God commendeth His love toward while we were yet sinners (sinning)....it says in Romans 5:8. That is the love where with we reckon ourselves in need of that grace and when received by faith we in turn give to the also undeserving. We answer for this as did the man Jesus told the parable of whom the king forgave great debt and then he went on in unthankfulness and pride and put a chokehold on someone who owed him. Matthew 18:23-35 the parable he said after peter asked about forgiving. You apparently still have "chokehold" on your dead mother because you are caustic with her memory and unresolved regarding her. You have displayed that loud and long in multiple posts to spew resentment. Holding people accountable is a loving thing to do if it is a loving an forgiving heart doing it--------otherwise----it is revenge and God does explicitly says He will do all avenging. Ours is to obey the Lord and leave the consequences to Him.
Not charismatic (your guessing game does not work) but the bible says 1)let all things be done, 2)decently and in order. See the two parts in that verse I am quoting? The Holy Spirit, when He has the sway over souls, can oversee, control, teach, and disciple and correct the church with each playing their position in the body to make it an honorable and pleasing thing by exemplifying His righteous and forgiving heart. We will all answer for how we did or did not do according to this premise. This is foundational understanding you obviously lack (yet you preach here in an unforgiving spirit and mishandle and misrepresent the Lord all the while you do it).
Your own words betray you.
Christian Zionism heresy article:
ReplyDelete"Dispensationalism is characterised by the teaching that God has two separate covenants for two separate peoples. The Jews have the Old Covenant which they claim is still ongoing and irrevocable. While Christians have the New Covenant. The logical conclusion of this heretical notion is that if God has two different covenants for two different peoples, then the Old Covenant must be fulfilled by returning the Jews to their ancestral homeland."
Actually, you don't need dispensationalism to figure they should get their
homeland back. The Old Covenant was with Moses, but the promise of the land
PREDATES THAT BEING GIVEN TO ABRAHAM. So you can toss dispensationalism out and
still have Christian Zionism.
" Once that happens to God's satisfaction, it will result in the culmination of history and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. So in a way, Christian Zionism was (and still is) a way of attempting to force God's hand,"
not really, since there is no explicit time table that makes 1948 an actual
countdown. Efforts to connect this to the last generation fails, because Jesus
talked about a series of events not mentioning Israel in place or not, which
when you see them ALL happen at once, that generation seeing it would know that
Jesus is indeed coming soon. And all these events have not come about like that
yet.
Those who are thinking in terms of forcing God's hand, of course, are dead wrong
and engaged in the sin of presumption. But that is an issue of motive not of the
action of Zionism itself. One can be Zionist for an opposed reason to that of
another Zionist.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBXcjjUujBs
ReplyDeleteLutheran satire battle cat twirling
to all you extreme sola scriptura-ites out there
"If you read the writings of the men of the second and third century, you can get a glimpse of how things were developing, continuing the pattern set in the NT adapting it to meet the
ReplyDeletechanging circumstances. But most of these letters are about doctrine or faithfulness to The Lord Jesus Christ, often in anticipation of persecution, so you don't see much of church organization but it is there."
It is true that the NT describes rather than commands a structure for the church. But by what authority was it changed?
Moreover, 2000 years later we can see more clearly the wisdom of God in comparing the structure He ordained with the structure man altered it to. If you grow a hierarchy then Satan is able to take down the church over an entire continent simply by appealing to the baser instincts of a small group of men at the top of the hierarchy. That is, in fact, a fairly good summary of European church history in the 1000 years after Constantine.
"Obviously you can have a single overseer who is over the other elders, but is also in the category of "elder." John the Apostle in his letter calls himself "elder." This kind of office then can have several other offices contained in it, but it is definitely over the diaconate which was originally apparently to handle the day to day financial and other worldly relevant business of the church. Peter also calls himself an "elder." In Titus 1:5 titus is told he is to appoint elders in every church in Crete."
ReplyDeleteI've shown above from scripture that presbyteroi and episkopoi refer to the same set of people in a congregation and are plural. Your word "obviously" is eisegesis. What happens is that it is premature to appoint these men until the congregation has been going for several years and some of its members have gained spiritual maturity. Until that time the congregation is under the authority of its founding apostolos or someone he delegates, like Titus. After that time it is autonomous under God.
http://watch.pair.com/revision.html
ReplyDelete"Jesus is indeed coming soon."
Says Mary, even if this statement is 100% unBiblical. NO ONE will know the hour. Not one single one of us. However this is what William Blackstone wrote in his book Jesus is Coming, the book that inspired DL Moody. Zionism disarms Christians, period. It makes them lay down and stop the spiritual battle. Oh, Jesus is coming, no need to read the Bible, no need to study apologetics, no need to do anything. Watch Fox, have a snack.
By your 12:55 AM response, Christine, it is very obvious that what I quoted from scripture directly applies to you in the matter that was spoken of, because you have tried to excuse yourself from them, but they still stick. It is those words that make you come out swinging because of the power of them. They are not my words, they are the words of Jesus, and the only reason to quote them, because end of the day what I think and what you think, matters nothing at all.
ReplyDeleteSo they are the very inconvenient truth you are dead set against facing and why your words flatline when you speak anything of the Word of God. And just so you know, I have had to face the very same issue, Christine, and my life did not heal until Jesus got His way in me over it.
The gorilla on your back is King Kong.
Be done with this and let Jesus heal you too or you will only remain a hypocrite in handling the words of the Lord.
Excellent response 6:03 AM.
ReplyDelete"It is true that the NT describes rather than commands a structure for the church. But by what authority was it changed?"
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't changed it was expanded. there is a difference. Titus over ALL of
Crete which was many cities is a model for a patriarchate.
"I've shown above from scripture that presbyteroi and episkopoi refer to the same set of people in a congregation and are plural. Your word "obviously" is eisegesis."
Now you're talking out of both sides of your moth, because your argument was
that bishop was also referred to as elder so was in that category. My point was
that the Apostles put themselves in the elder category also. Which shows that
"elder" has differentiation within it. you used this argument to support the
undermining and pluralization of the overseer within a given congregation if I
understand right, but when I point out that it doesn't mandate such isolationism
suddenly this is eisegesis.
" What happens is that it is premature to appoint these men until the congregation has been going for several years and some of its members have gained spiritual maturity. Until that time the congregation is under the authority of its founding apostolos or someone he delegates, like Titus. After that time it is autonomous under God."
And Paul told Timothy to select mature men and train them to be teachers or elders,
2 Timothy 2:2 teaching being a specialty of some elders.
it is you who are looking for a change to occur, one which minimizes communication
between congregations and eliminates the possibility of disputes being resolved
that involve an elder by their being a synod of elders of several churches to handle
internal affairs that can't be handled or review a decision. accountability is
thus lacking, and the only solution in some cases would then be to schism within
that congregation and have two (or more) separate congregations, whose origin
is not population increase but a dispute that is never resolved.
bear in mind that the entire body of believers is one ekklesia and the congregations
are local manifestations of this. why then such a drive for independence? there
is too much independence and too much non independence a middle ground should be
sought.
I repeat, no change was made, only an expanding of an existing model and accommodation
to increased population. the model of an overseer over several cities is shown
in Titus being over Crete a large island with many cities.