While I still believe that Barack Obama is a natural born US citizen, Philip Berg's campaign not withstanding, I have received some potentially disturbing information from a credible source about Barack Obama's possible programming and direction. I will present Tom Fife, a computer networking specialist and physicist on my internet radio program next Tuesday night who will share with us a disturbing conversation he had with a Russian lady in Moscow in 1991. The woman boasted of a man named "Barak" who was half African, half American who was being groomed for eventually taking the USA President. John W. Spring has talked to me about this many times and I was extremely reluctant to add any credence to what I believed was a shaky story. However, I have now had the opportunity to talk with Mr. Fife. He revealed names and details that I was able to locate and verify on the internet regarding the Professor and his wife, a physician, who hosted Mr. Fife at a Moscow dinner party in 1991.
I don't know if I fully believe yet, but I do believe you have the right to know and assist you in sorting out these facts for yourself.
Tomorrow night, I will finish my current series on basics of the New Age Movement and its doctrines. Tune in to http://www.themicroeffect.com/, join us in the chatroom there as well as listen live, and stay tuned!
Constance
From Lucis Trust's website as given in the "Easter speech" in 2008:
ReplyDelete"Under spiritual law, and perhaps surprisingly, crisis and conflict can be the source of the quest for harmony, for right human relations and the growth of the universal spirit of goodwill among people. Increasingly, that which is old and no longer constructive is coming to recognition, and here I’m speaking not only of institutions and customs, but also of attitudes and beliefs. Today, every human being is being forced to examine his own heart and mind for the possible presence of attitudes and beliefs that constitute an obstruction to the renewal of life. A powerful example was Barack Obama’s speech on race relations in America, in which he attempted to address a subject that is a powerful source of pain, misunderstanding, silent resentment and mistrust for so many Americans. Imagine what possibilities might lie ahead if we all could think about the subject of race in a completely new way, with a deep trust in the essential decency and goodwill of most human beings, in their capacity to respond to reason, and with willingness to understand an intrinsic aspect of the national consciousness in a totally new way, with renewed minds and hearts? What Senator Obama is calling for can only be accomplished if we obey St. Paul’s command: "Be ye therefore transformed by the renewing of your mind." The energies of Easter and of Aries make this possible."
http://www.lucistrust.org/en/arcane_school/twelve_spiritual_festivals/aries/easter_festival_talk
I have been sort of following the Obama thread questioning where he was born. I am sure this radio interview with the Ambassador of Kenya was already posted somewhere. It is from 2 months ago if it is real. I am not taking a stand that he is or is not born in Kenya. I am just posting it. Sorry if it was already posted.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBdUvLzdH_M
Rose
Constance,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of Alex Jones at Info Wars? Is he a crediable source? What about his views on 9/11?
Savvy
What I find disturbing is that a lot of people are right about the NWO and the occult, but they somehow blame it on the Zionists. Haven't they ever read any Lucis Trust material ever?
ReplyDeleteSavvy
Obama’s rise to power from Nothing holds in its self highly suspicions. Everything seems to well Orchestrated. Too many things “just” pulled together just right for someone so unknown.
ReplyDeleteOprah, Neale Donald Walsh, Marianne Williamson all promoting him.
The books he wrote himself state that his family roots were atheist.
He refers to a close friend growing up in Hawaii in his books named Frank. A mentor figure.
“The mysterious "Frank" cited as a friend and adviser by Democratic president contender Barack Obama while he was growing up in Hawaii has been identified as Frank Marshall Davis, a member of the old Moscow-controlled Communist Party USA”
quote from:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com
/index.php?fa=PAGE.
view&pageId=56859
This would explain why the Soviet knew so much about him. It looks very suspicious that he may have been well groomed for power. His biological father studied economics and was in the government of Kenya from what the ambassador (if true) said. I wonder what his politicaly views were.
The most important though is who influenced him. If the information is correct that Frank is Frank Marshall it all fits into place.
Rose
Thanks for bringing this information to our attention. I look forward to
ReplyDeletehearing Mr. Fife on your program next week. A very stunning twist to the already extremely intriguing resume of Barack Obama.
Question for you Constance:
You write in your current blog posting,
"I will present Tom Fife, a computer networking specialist and physicist on my internet radio program next MONDAY night... "
Is this correct, or did you mean to say Tuesday night? Thanks!
-Rudi
I'm no fan of Obama, and acknowledge his socialist ideology, but I find this article suspect to say the least.
ReplyDeleteFrom memory only (I assume), he quotes detailed information from this Russian woman. We have Obama's first name, his Ivy League background, Hawaii, California, Chicago, "soon to be elected to the legislature," etc. ... And then, after all this (if it is true), Mr. Fife could have went right back home and investigated himself. A cursory investigation would have turned up Barack Obama without a doubt.
Also, why only bring this info out in Nov. 2008? This is extremely suspect. Why not the very day after Obama's speech at the DNC, 28 Aug 2008? If he had revealed his conversation back then, at the beginning of the Obama love affair, I would have giving it much more credence. "Barack" is a very strange name; and if Fife's story was true, then he would have immediately recalled that conversation with the communists in the '90s, and started warning us 4 years ago!
This is getting more frightful and intriguing all the time. Those are good insights Rose especially that Frank fella. If all this holds to be true, and they can put a man like this into the highest office just like that; then what else do they have up their sleeves. Nikita Kruschauf sp? once said they buy us from within. Looking forward to Mr. Fife.
ReplyDeleteExcuse me. Nikita Kruschauff said they would bury us from within.
ReplyDeleteMore news pushing just how global the financial mess is
ReplyDeleteWorld Economy May Lose 51 Million Jobs: U.N. Agency
GENEVA (Reuters) - Up to 51 million jobs worldwide could disappear by the end of this year as a result of the economic slowdown that has turned into a global employment crisis, a United Nations agency said on Wednesday
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=6747523
Annan: World faces 'crisis of governance'
ReplyDeleteDAVOS, Switzerland (CNN) -- The worldwide economic recession has exposed a "crisis of global governance" that can only be addressed by the radical reform of the United Nations, former U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said Wednesday as the World Economic Forum got under way in Switzerland.
"The current architecture of managing global affairs is broken and needs to be fixed," Annan said on the opening morning of the five-day annual meeting of global political and business leaders. "We have major new players coming on the scene and they need to be integrated and given a voice."
Referring to the U.N. Security Council, which gives permanent places and vetoing powers to the U.S., the UK, Russia, China and France, Annan said: "We cannot continue to run the world based on countries that won a war 60 years ago. It's either destructive competition or cooperation. We live in an interdependent world and the only way to move forward is to cooperate."
http://tinyurl.com/ckj8sd
Not sure about all of this, but this fellow, a historian has a lot of very interesting, credible things to say:
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/atz93v
Joyce
A longer interview with Webster Tarpley and Alex Jones:
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/dyq9d6
Dear Constance,
ReplyDeleteI am a long time reader of your work. I have never posted. I think you are taking a chance with this Obama story. This particular story has made its rounds by E-mail and has been re-posted on many blogs. It is horrifying. Never the less, it is without fact and full of convenient unsubstantiated hearsay. I hope you generate some serious details and evidence to support your implied endorsement of it. I am one of those who believe that Obama is obviously a disciple of Saul Alinsky and I know that the KGB more than likely spent a lot of time and resources attempting to “demoralize” the American Church from within during the cold war. But suggesting that Obama is a sleeper is a bit over the top. I worry that you will discredit yourself and your important work on the New Age Movement and the EU by becoming entangled in it. I hope that you have prayed to the Lord about it.
May God keep you safe.
Anonymous
PS
Please post about the new information for those of us who are not able to listen.
More:
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/btv8ot
You can watch the whole series.
Joyce
Here's a link showing the facts of what I shared about Nikita earlier.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,867329,00.html
Sounds like hate speech, Constance.
ReplyDeleteBarack Obama's mother and father met in a Russian language course at the University of Hawaii per the Wikipedia account.
ReplyDeleteConstance
I have my reservations about Alex Jones -- at least some of his work. Interestingly, there were times I tried to get in touch with him and was NEVER able to get either a return EMAIL or PHONE CALL. That alone makes me suspicious. I am most certain he knows who I am.
ReplyDeleteConstance
Hi Rudi and all,
ReplyDeleteLONG day yesterday with dicey Michigan weather thrown in -- TUESDAY night!
Thanks!
Constance
Hi Terry,
ReplyDeleteI had all the same concerns and many more and had MANY long arguments with John W. Spring about it. I spoke with Mr. Fife last night at length and he was able to give me the names of the couple who hosted them in Moscow, a Russian professor and his doctor wife. I was able to locate both of them, now living together, in London together with the bona fides on their profession.
I still have my jury out, and why he didn't come forward sooner, only he and God at the present time know, but I have decided that at least we can hear and shoot these same questions to Mr. Fife, which Terry, I am hopeful you will call in and do.
Constance
I believe it was spelled
ReplyDeleteNIKITA KRUSCHEV
Constance
I believe the real ideological goal is NEW AGE and not MARXIST which bears out which I have said from the 1980's:
ReplyDelete1. This is NOT Communism
2. When it is fully achieved, it will make Communism look like a Sunday School picnic.
Barbara Marx Hubbard who put together the Soviet-American Dialogue process in 1988 (remember her) and had the CHAIRED by PAUL N. TEMPLE (remember him?) bragged in the Seattle speech which I have written often about that "the higher one goes in Russia, the more likely they are into this [New Age]).
Remember, it was Oprah Winfrey who said she wished Barack Obama would run for President. And it was New Ager Marianne Williamson who had been hosted by the Clintons at the White House and Camp David who even turned on Hillary to back Barack Obama.
Constance
Jerry from Ohio:
ReplyDeleteSort of would like to know more about you and what your real agenda is on this board.
Constance
I believe the real ideological goal is NEW AGE and not MARXIST which bears out which I have said from the 1980's:
ReplyDelete1. This is NOT Communism
2. When it is fully achieved, it will make Communism look like a Sunday School picnic.
Barbara Marx Hubbard who put together the Soviet-American Dialogue process in 1988 (remember her) and had the Dialogues CHAIRED by PAUL N. TEMPLE (remember him?) bragged in the Seattle speech which I have written often about that "the higher one goes in Russia, the more likely they are into this [New Age]).
Remember, it was Oprah Winfrey who said she wished Barack Obama would run for President. And it was New Ager Marianne Williamson who had been hosted by the Clintons at the White House and Camp David who even turned on Hillary to back Barack Obama.
Constance
7:33 AM
Constance Cumbey said...
To Anonymous 1:16
Multiply what you said by 10 and you have my ditto concerns. I pressed him for the names of the woman, something not reported anywhere. I also pressed him for backgrounds. I did one of my google searches while talking and was stunned to find both of them -- with both Russian and English google hits, as husband and wife, one a professor with many scientific publications including post-Chernobyl ones on radiation and living together in London and engaged in dealerships in the very same field that Mr. Fife was in Moscow to consult upon in 1991. That I found them was even a surprise to Mr. Fife. He is going to be contacting them before we do the program next Tuesday.
Constance
Constance -- FYI:
ReplyDeleteAs you requested, on the previous thread at 10:33 PM last night, I posted a source for my information on Obama at 12:43 AM this morning.
Are you aware that this thread linked to an extremely anti-semitic website?
ReplyDeleteI would suggest that you contact these people yourself before Mr. Fife gets a hold of them.
ReplyDeleteI'll tune in and listen to his explanation.
Constance
ReplyDeleteYou are totally correct when you said
" believe the real ideological goal is NEW AGE and not MARXIST which bears out which I have said from the 1980's:
1. This is NOT Communism
2. When it is fully achieved, it will make Communism look like a Sunday School picnic.”
I agree completely. When you read Barbara Marx Hubbard and others and understand their full agenda, nothing in history can compare. It just is similar to Marxism in ideas and terms but it is far greater and adds the spiritual realm. This will be the greatest force of Evil the world has ever seen.(The reign of Lucifer) The scripture tell us how horrible it will be and so do the New Agers when you get to the deep occult. The most telling things are both references really say the same thing just from opposite points of view. This may sound strange but it is like the Occult is a testimony of the Bible and the Bible is a testimony of the Occult. Which make me confident on what we are preceving is happening is what is truly going on.
Having researched this for now close to 25 years, what I told people was going to happen has. No one would really believe at the time. They thought the new age were just whack jobs. But what I said and what you have said has come to pass. They are no longer considered whack jobs they are the Spiritual leaders of our nation. Moving us in a direction no one thought could happen to the USA. We as a country have turned our back on God and embraced his greatest impostor.
Constance
ReplyDeleteI was wondering what you know of Saul Alinsky and if he has any connections to the Occult.
I know that he wrote the book Rules for Radicals and the Hillary and Obama both idleized him. I also know in his book Rules or Radicals he says “Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins -- or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom -- Lucifer.”
Since he was a large influence on Obama via commuity organizing from what I have read. I was trying to see if he has links to any of the big players in the Occult. Do to that comment about Lucifer. The occult does not usually describe Lucifer in that manner, but it still made me think.
Thanks,
Rose
Hi Becki,
ReplyDeleteI was not -- I believe I linked to the Rense article -- I knew there were some UFO questionable things -- I'll have to go back to see what you are talking about. John W. Spring called me MANY times about Mr. Fife and I steadfastly refused to consider it. I talked to Mr. Fife and only after I was able to verify the existence and identity and current locations of his informant did I decide that my own audience needed to hear and evaluate his claimed evidence.
Constance
I think I misspelled the former Russian PM's name:
ReplyDeleteIt was NIKITA KRUSHCHEV
Terry,
ReplyDeleteIf you will contact me by email, I will give you telephone numbers where you can reach Mr. Fife yourself, along with the addresses of the former Russian folk now living in London. I don't have phone numbers for them -- only their business and residential addresses.
Constance
cumbey@gmail.com
I found this via Oldthinker
ReplyDeleteSenator Warns White House Will 'Create Crisis' and 'Panic' to Push Stimulus
Is the new Obama administration taking cues from the Bush administration to get Congress to act? It certainly seemed that way to, South Carolina’s junior Republican senator, Jim DeMint.
DeMint, speaking Jan. 27 at The Heritage Foundation in Washington, D.C., explained the Obama administration will “create crisis and widespread panic” just like its predecessor in order to get Congress to act expeditiously.
“I’ve been around long enough to know whenever someone tells me I have to make a decision right now, my response is no,” DeMint said. “That clears it up right away and I think more and more the Bush administration and now this administration knows that they’re not going to get a quick reaction out of Congress unless they create crisis and widespread panic. And that’s going to be their M.O. to get Congress to act.”
http://tinyurl.com/bvpjoa
Netanyahu: Obama Will Try to Internationalize Jerusalem Sites
ReplyDelete(IsraelNN.com) Likud party chairman and Knesset Opposition leader MK Binyamin Netanyahu warned at the Jerusalem Conference Wednesday that the Obama administration and leftist Israeli politicians will try to internationalize holy sites in Jerusalem -- and he vowed to fight the move.
Netanyahu told the audience, “Some politicians are trying to blur the importance of the Temple Mount to the Jewish People by referring to it as the ‘Holy Basin.’ We, as Jews, know who built the Temple Mount.”
The term “Holy Basin” refers to the area of the Temple Mount, the Mount of Olives, Mount Zion and a variety of Christian holy sites which the administration of former U.S. President Bill Clinton recommended be administered under a “special regime.”
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129651
Solana optimistic about Gaza ceasefire
ReplyDeleteEUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS – EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana on Thursday (29 January) expressed hopes that a lasting cease-fire between Israel and Hamas could be reached as early as next week.
"I hope that around 4 or 5 February – this is the objective – a ceasefire can be established… And then from that date on until let's say 24 or 25 February to get an agreement of a more political nature," Mr Solana told a seminar organised by the centre-right EPP-ED party in the European Parliament in Brussels.
"This is [something] that should be done and I hope that it will be done," he added.
http://euobserver.com/9/27499
I know that this is off topic, but I wanted to share an e-mail I recieved this morning. It was written by Chuck Norris and it has some interesting thoughts about Rick Warren and the inauguration prayer.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this topic is dead already and if it is I apologize.
Gretchen
The Most Underrated Part of the Inauguration
by Chuck Norris
01/27/2009
I know inaugural news and commentary are already passé. But I could not find one report this past week that caught what I believe was the most subtle, strategic and possibly subversive moment of the inauguration ceremony. Did you catch it?
Like most news agencies, U.S. News & World Report reported that the Rev. Rick Warren's invocation "clearly opted for a conciliatory tone that eschewed any mention of culture-war issues." But Warren hardly was pacifying the elites or anyone else -- if you truly understand what he prayed. The invocation seemed like a rather benign blessing that even his most ardent foes could have interpreted as inclusive. But the real portrait of his prayer was quite to the contrary.
First of all, Warren's prayer was nearly five minutes long -- about 486 words. He certainly didn't cower to typical audience intolerance for long prayers and opt for a short grace before meals.
Second, Warren embarked on what theologians call a Mars Hill apologetic, which is a biblical approach and deductive line of reasoning that the apostle Paul used in teaching about a Creator God, with whom all can identify at first: "Almighty God, our Father, everything we see and everything we can't see exists because of you alone. It all comes from you. It all belongs to you. It all exists for your glory. History is your story."
Third, Warren then narrowed his focus by identifying the Creator as the one true Hebrew (or Jewish) God of the Old Testament -- something that sounds inclusive of Judaism but also serves as the basis and narrowing of his Christian logic. At the same time, he was culturally relative and sensitive to (but not necessarily endorsing of) Islam by extolling God as "the compassionate and merciful one," a descriptive line that opens all but one chapter of the Quran. Warren prayed: "The Scripture tells us, 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one.' And you are the compassionate and merciful one. And you are loving to everyone you have made."
Fourth, Warren then covered the gamut in compassionate petitions -- thanking God for racial freedom and equality, praying a blessing on Obama and his Cabinet, and asking God to help us all unite in freedom, forgive us of our presumption and pride, and share with and serve all humanity.
Fifth, Warren turned on a dime by calling on God to help us remember this universal religious truth (in all Middle Eastern religions, I might add): God will judge all nations and all peoples. Then, for clarity's sake, the name of Warren's Supreme Judge was given. He referred to this transforming agent, who changed his own life, in four different languages: "I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life -- Yeshua (Hebrew), Isa (Arabic), Jesus (Spanish pronunciation), Jesus (English pronuncation)."
Sixth and last, just when you thought the "amen" was imminent, Warren gave a coup de grâce to any political or earthly power -- a possibly subversive chess move to subtly call Obama's regime into checkmate. He called upon the global Christian community to invoke God's power against any and all human strongholds by collectively praying the Lord's Prayer. Warren rallied all branches, traditions and denominations of the universal church by triggering a prayer response through his words "who taught us to pray, saying Š" Proof came as cameras immediately panned across the people in the Washington crowd, many of whom found themselves suddenly reciting the prayer with Warren. (It was interesting to watch how Obama chose not to join in.)
What everyone needs to understand is that the Lord's Prayer is no trite religious repetition to Warren. He once explained in one of his teachings: "'Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.' Why do we pray that 'Thy will be done as it is in heaven'? Because in heaven, God's will is done perfectly. Is God's will done perfectly on earth? Absolutely not. In fact, most of the things that happen on earth are not God's will. God's will is not always done. Š But when you pray, 'Thy will be done,' you're saying Š 'I accept your plan, and I surrender to God's control.'"
Reciting the Lord's Prayer is pleading with God to erect his kingdom and execute his desires on earth as they are in heaven. It is calling upon the one true God, asking for his nature to overrun ours, his wishes to be fulfilled (not ours), and his rule and reign to be established (not ours). On the flip side, it is the most "dangerous" prayer one can pray if one wants to continue to live selfishly, misuse power and maintain control over others.
The Lord's Prayer is, in reality, the most invasive and subversive prayer to human selfishness that one can say. It's able to break down strongholds within us, within others and even within political structures. As Warren again said, praying the Lord's Prayer is ideal "when your circumstances are uncontrollable, when people around you won't change (they're unchangeable), and when problems are unexplainable."
Now you tell me: Why would Warren, who thoroughly understands the Scriptures, pray that particular prayer at the transference of new political powers with whom he largely disagrees? The answer is obvious.
Like millions of others, I repeated this relatively short prayer by rote for most of my life without thinking twice about its meaning. But then I learned about its powerful truths from my pastor, who teaches its principles and encourages its daily recitation through a simple acronym. (You can listen to his Lord's Prayer message series on his Web site, www.NationalTreasures.org.) The Lord's Prayer has revolutionized my prayers and my life, and I believe (as I know Warren does) it can change all of our lives, government and the world if we sincerely and regularly pray it. That's exactly why Warren's invocation included it.
For most, Warren was reinforcing his image as "a unifying, post-Christian-right figure rather than as a divisive culture warrior." But reality is, as Jesus called his apostles to do, Warren was being as "shrewd as a serpent and innocent as a dove." And most never even caught it.
Say what you will about this purpose-driven pastor, but when you parse it, the Rev. Rick Warren's inaugural invocation was about as purpose-driven as prayers come.
Very interesting about the "Internationalizing of Jerusalem Sites". I'm very curious as to how this will play out in the rebuilding of the Temple.
ReplyDeleteIt really seems that Obama will play an important part in some prophetic events.... I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens!
Today on Drudge, he links to an article in the Financial Times authored by Soros, wherein, per Drudge, "SOROS EYES 'GLOBAL RESCUE PLAN'". I didn't yet read it, however, so I cannot say anything about it at this time.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Constance for pointing this out: 1. This is NOT Communism
ReplyDelete2. When it is fully achieved, it will make Communism look like a Sunday School picnic.
Being new to all this New Age info and knowing how cruel Communism was and is, that was my reference point.
But I agree, this is the most horrible plan on the horizon just ahead of us. It's beyond anything we've seen. It's hard to relate to such evil coming. The bible tells us how bad it will be in revelation, but somehow it doesn't register quite yet for some. It has hit home for me, and am grateful for all this info.
Thanks, Gretchen. I've been trying to sort out Warren's prayer and felt there was more to it than just a prayer. He's a dangerous man on the religious scene from what I've researched. And I really think he is an opportunist and very ambitiously becoming a name amongst world leaders especially Blair who has used his idea by getting ambassadors in the religious world together with
I encourage everyone to read this 41 page report (Copyright 1998 2020 Fund, Inc. ®) – it is an extremely “easy read” and a great overview for those who still may lack an understanding of “the basics” undergirding the Plan. One “heads up” for me was reading on page 8 a clear statement regarding the way in which the internet, and our use of it, is providing those working behind the scenes with a skeleton key of sorts for gathering information. This report is titled,
ReplyDelete“The 2020 Challenge:
Evolutionary Bounce or Crash”
The initial report was written by Duane Elgin (a familiar name to many of us) who was entrusted with the task of “collecting and synthesizing vast amounts of existing research to tell the story of this extraordinary moment in our evolution”.
“The 2020 Initiative is now undertaking an unprecedented “global listening project,” formally
called The Global Stakeholder Panel on Globalization and Governance. …It utilizes the
Internet, and the global communications, issues research, and management tools developed by
GlobeScan Research, Ltd. (formerly Environics International, Ltd.) to engage stakeholders throughout
the world, and from across all sectors, in a local-to-global “conversation” for the world we want. As
suggested in this report (page 18), our goal is to use the transformative power of global
communications to stretch across historic human divisions and emerge a working consensus about
the pathway forward to a sustainable future – using the year 2020 as a milestone….
(Postscript #2 , pg 8/41)
“The initiative was first incubated at Union Theological Seminary, and is aligning
leading businesses, NGOs, and commercial and philanthropic investors to enhance strategic
planning, resources, media, and coordinated action to “get the job done,” to consciously birth the
world we want to bequeath to our great-grandchildren.”
http://tinyurl.com/dxqczv
http://www.2020fund.org/downloads/2020_challenge_report_122502.pdf
**********************************
Duane Elgin has a website, “Awakening Earth”
http://tinyurl.com/c22k8o
http://www.awakeningearth.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=28
*******************************
A few years later a follow-up report (August 2004-March 2005) utilized
Information gathered by way of “exploratory discussions” with “leaders” who were interviewed offering them the opportunity to participate.
“The purpose of this open-ended approach was to create a welcoming context for leaders to voice their opinions, contribute their ideas, and potentially offer to participate in building such an enterprise."
You can draw your own conclusions after examining the list of the names of those who were deemed high enough up on the evolutionary totem pole to be interviewed. Page 6/45 of the follow-up report.
http://tinyurl.com/apckna
http://www.2020fund.org/downloads/exploratory_interview_RBF.pdf
*********************************
Interesting to me, at the time of this report, one of the “pending” interviewee’s was Oprah Winfrey. Her television and radio access to viewers has been an open door to the minds of millions around the world. She has often spoken of her “awakening moment”, the call on her life, as being that of a teacher. Add to this her ability to influence her viewers in everything from the books she recommends, to her unabashed support and financial contributions to Barack Obama’s presidential campaign. She is a World Server in the truest Lucis Trust sense of the word.
The stated “Bottom line” on page 12 of the link above says,
“Keep as global initiative, with a US component, led by US players, more potently linked to leaders, globally.”
As Constance has said many times, this Plan has been in various stages of emergence for many years. The points of entry and implementation are too numerous to name. This “2020 Fund Project” and the Rockefeller Brother’s Fund is just one strand of a million others working to make it happen.
More information can be found through the 2020 Fund homepage
and at the website of Union Theological Seminary. -Rudi
**********************************
2020 Fund homepage
http://www.2020fund.org/index.htm
Union Theological Seminary
http://tinyurl.com/bofn7k
http://www.utsnyc.edu/Page.aspx?pid=256
******************************
“Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.” Psalm 127
That's very good Rudi. What an eye opener. It easy to understand as you say. And the one thing that hit me is, "the world we WANT" statement. I guess they're going to eliminate what they don't want?
ReplyDeleteGlad it was helpful Margie. When you wrote:
ReplyDelete"I guess they're going to eliminate what they don't want?",
I thought, "yeah, if they all work together as one"
Tower of Babel Part 2. Looking back to the days of Noah... when God said, "Never again ...will the WATERS become a FLOOD to destroy all flesh. Our modern day tower builders "deliberately forget" and focus on the "never again" part and fail to notice this applies only to God's judgment coming by way of a flood. He will judge by fire the second time around. -Rudi
"First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water."
"By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed."
"By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."
2 Peter 3
Margie,
ReplyDeleteRespectfully, I think you may have mis-understood the point of the article by Chuck Norris. He is saying that if anything, that Rick Warren is dangerous not to Christians but to the unsuspecting non-believers, as well as to the new administration. His prayer was so powerful and yet seemed so inclusive. Here is a quote I found enlightening
"Sixth and last, just when you thought the "amen" was imminent, Warren gave a coup de grâce to any political or earthly power -- a possibly subversive chess move to subtly call Obama's regime into checkmate. He called upon the global Christian community to invoke God's power against any and all human strongholds by collectively praying the Lord's Prayer."
He then goes on to explain the power behind the Lord's Prayer and how it was used in this context.
He also points out that Obama chose not to recite it along with the many others that did.
I was listening to the prayer especially and found it very wise and gentle and yet he didn't compromise on who Jesus was or what he believed in. (I was really looking for something wrong with it and I couldn't find anything!)
Here's a bit about the article in Wall Street. It says:
ReplyDelete"In the very near future a large, bright star will appear in the sky visible to all throughout the world—night and day. Unbelievable? Fantasy? No, a simple fact. Around a week later, Maitreya, the World Teacher for all humanity, will begin his open emergence and—though not yet using the name Maitreya—will be interviewed on a major US television program. Awaited by all faiths under different names, Maitreya is the Christ to Christians, the Imam Mahdi to Muslims, Krishna to Hindus, the Messiah to Jews, and Maitreya Buddha to Buddhists. He is the World Teacher for all, religious or not, an educator in the broadest sense." —MarketWatch, LOS ANGELES, Dec 12, 2008
It's interesting to note that on March 25th of this year, an extraordinarily rare event occurs when Venus will be seen in the twilight and in the morning. It will be seen both at night and at day.
God Help us All!
Savvy
Rudi quoted: "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."
ReplyDeleteSad to say I hear Christians say the same thing.
Margie and Gretchen,
ReplyDeleteCheck out the transcript of Rick Warren's inaugural prayer. If you missed hearing it, you will see that he included Isa in the closing list of Jesus' names.
If you check the posts on the thread that included Jan. 20, you will notice several of us commenting on his choice of Isa. You can also do some easy internet research on who Isa is. It is not the Muslim name for the Scriptural Jesus. Isa is a prophet in the Koran who says he did not die on a cross. Christians and Jews lied. When he comes back he will break crosses and kill pigs (Christians).
Arab Christians use the name Yasu for the Jesus we know and love. Rick Warren continues on a dangerous and broad path. This was done apparently in the name of political expediency. For those who believe he is positioning himself to be a voice for the Lord, should make note how easily he betrayed the Lord by being "inclusive" and using the name Isa. As for me, I'm not holding my breath waiting for him to "take a stand".
Terri
Savvy,
ReplyDeleteCheck out this link. It points out Venus's ancient connection with the "goddess" Astarte.
Also, look at the possibly occult nature of the the symbol associated with the plotting of its movements.
http://www.sunysuffolk.edu/~heald58/aps.htm
As to the possibility that the Russian couple could have knowledge of some type of plan to promote a Barack (Obama?) to ascend to the US presidency, we need to remember that Mikhal Gorbachev has long been active in New Age circles. Would it be so far fetched? The fact that Rabbi Michael Lerner claims Obama was part of the Network of Spiritual Progressives in 1996 is an indication of long Obama involvement in New Age circles. Soros heavily backed Obama's initial congrssional run.He has heavy involvement in Russia via his foundation. Oprah seems to have a long involvement with Obama.In 1990, the Ted Turner Goodwill Games (US-Soviet exchange) took place in Seattle. Was the title of these games Lucis Trust inspired? Is the name Barack just coincidental or inserted by faulty recall? But no one should be surprised the New Agers would want the White House. More significant should be who Obama associated with at Columbia. Look there for his entry into the New Age circle.
ReplyDeleteTerri,
ReplyDeleteI was just reading a book called "Secret Believers" that was written by Brother Anderew, about Muslims that had come to Christ when they realized who "Isa" was. They thought he was just another prophet like the Qur'an teaches but then they meet "Isa" through the Bible and sometimes even in dreams and come know Him as the Christ the son of God. These people are then persecuted and excommunicated by their families.
"Isa" may be the name that is used for Jesus in the Qur'an but He is still the same Jesus that saves these people from the bondage of Islam when they search for Him.
I do understand that Islam teaches that "Isa" was just another teacher, and no more, but the Truth of who He is cannot be denied when He is sought out.
Warren did say "I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life -- Yeshua (Hebrew), Isa (Arabic), Jesus (Spanish pronunciation), Jesus (English pronuncation)."
To me this so clear and is not deceptive. If anything I pray that his using the name "Isa" as well as "Yeshua" and "Jesus" would bring about the curiosity and attention of those who have not met Him yet.
Here is the link to the web side "Secret Believers"
http://www.secretbelievers.org/
here is another link regarding the name found in the Qur'an
http://debate.org.uk/topics/theo/messiah.htm
Gretchen,
ReplyDeleteYou can find the quotes below at online sources for the Koran to verify accuracy. This Isa (Eisa) is not simply a different name for the same Jesus. (As Allah is not an alternate name for the God of the Bible.) This Isa is not the Jesus I gave my heart to. It is not the Jesus who saved my soul. These are direct quotes from the Koran as to who Isa really is.
(http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/15959.htm)
Christians and Jews have corrupted their scriptures. (Âl 'Imran 3:74-77, 113) Although Christians believe ‘Isa died on a cross, and Jews claim they killed him, in reality he was not killed or crucified, and those who said he was crucified lied (An-Nisa’ 4:157). ‘Isa did not die, but ascended to Allah. (An-Nisa’ 4:158) On the day of Resurrection ‘Isa himself will be a witness against Jews and Christians for believing in his death. (An-Nisa’ 4:159)
*In one tradition of Muhammad we read that no further prophets will come to earth until ‘Isa returns as ‘a man of medium height, or reddish complexion, wearing two light garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head although it will not be wet. He will fight for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill pigs, and abolish the poll-tax. Allah will destroy all religions except Islam. He (‘Isa) will destroy the Evil One and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die’. (Sunan Abu Dawud, 37:4310) The Sahih Muslim has a variant of this tradition: ‘The son of Mary ... will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will ... abolish the poll-tax, and the wealth will pour forth to such an extent that no one will accept charitable gifts.’ (Sahih Muslim 287)
What do these sayings mean? The cross is a symbol of Christianity. Breaking crosses means abolishing Christianity. Pigs are associated with Christians. Killing them is another way of speaking of the destruction of Christianity. Under Islamic law the poll-tax buys the protection of the lives and property of conquered ‘people of the Book’. (At-Taubah 9:29) The abolition of the poll-tax means jihad is restarted against Christians (and Jews) living under Islam, who should convert to Islam, or else be killed or enslaved. The abundance of wealth refers to booty flowing to the Muslims from this conquest. This is what the Muslim ‘Isa will do when he returns in the last days.
Terri
Dear Constance,
ReplyDeleteI respond only because you are deserving of a response.
I don't think I have an agenda. It just seemed odd that you accuse Devvy of hate speech and then discuss the same issue.
I don't understand how it is profitable to accuse another person of hate speech. "Hate speech" is a liberal fabrication to shut up its opponents, both legitimate and illegitimate. I am surprised that YOU would use their terminology.
Thus, my previous comment was sarcastic. I am sorry to have offended you.
Biblically speaking every word spoken by unregenerate man and most by unregenerate man is hate speech - "there is no one who does good, not even one." "Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit." "The poison of vipers is on their lips." "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."
"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
So please don't help the libs advance their "hate speech" legislation. Unfortunately, you will be one of their targets and I will miss your writings.
Thanks for all the work you put into this blog.
I will shut up now.
Gretchen:
ReplyDeleteThanks for the article by Chuck Norris. I am glad for the overt reference to the Bible and to Jesus. But having researched Rick Warren for a couple years now, many of the elements of his prayer can and probably do have different meanings, and are more inclusive, from a global religion perspective than seem on the surface.
Too much of his teaching and writing gives a different meaning to what he says. I see Rick Warren as the "nice guy" side of the Evangelical church's slide into contemplative spirituality which is the Christianized version of NA spirituality. It's interesting that Norris didn't pick up on Warren's praying in the name of ISA, which has nothing to do with Jesus. There are other sites that focus on these topics and I don't want to side track this blog's focus.
Dave in CA
US: Ex-CIA spy, son renewed Russian contact
ReplyDeleteBy ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON
An imprisoned ex-CIA spy and his son have been charged with renewing contact with the father's former Russian handlers to get more money for espionage.
Harold Nicholson and his 24-year-old son, Nathaniel, have been indicted in Oregon, where the elder Nicholson is still serving time in a federal prison for past espionage charges.
The pair face charges of conspiring to act as an agent of a foreign government and money laundering.
The indictment says Harold Nicholson, who pled guilty in 1997 after being paid $300,000 to pass secrets to the Russians, wanted to receive further payments for his work, and used his son as a go-between.
http://tinyurl.com/c574jl
and pertaining to the deeds of Russia still, interesting story here
Hi Gretchen,
ReplyDeleteI also read Secret Believers about a year ago and for the most part, really liked it. I don't have the time to re-read it again at this time, but I do remember there were several places in the book where I read some statements that I knew were not totally accurate. One of those items were the reference to ISA being the Arabic word used for the Jesus who is our Lord. My only familiarity with Brother Andrew is from his frequent guest appearances on the 700 Club MANY years ago at a time when I trusted Pat Roberson and whoever he would have on the program. Live and learn. To his credit, and God's glory, Brother Andrew IS responsible for smuggling Bible's into areas which otherwise would have no access. So, he has done much to help bring the Good News of the Gospel to many who would have probably never heard.
I haven't had time to study the following website in depth but after a brief going over is looking like a blending of Islam and Christianity. Isa is discribed with much of the same terminology as we who believe would commonly use to describe Jesus Christ/Yeshua. For example,
"Isa was unique."
"Isa's birth was unique."
"He was born of a virgin." (Mary)
"Isa had no human father,
while all others did."
"A star appeared, guided a group of leaders great in knowledge and wisdom, and brought them to the place where Isa was born. There they worshipped Him and offered Him gifts."
"Isa never committed sin nor did He do wrong as other human beings do."
"Isa was matchless, incomparable."
"Isa expressed His love for all of us by offering Himself to Allah as a sacrifice in atonement for our sins." -problem here with "Allah"
"Followers of Isa uphold the belief that Isa was crucified, as prophesied by him and by other prophets before him, that he also died and rose from the dead."
But yet...a book is offered titled, "The Last Days of Isa" where I read the following:
"The mission of Isa, according to Islam, is in two phases. The first was as a prophet to Israel, the second will be at his second coming when he, as a follower of Muhammad, will fight Dajjal (the anti Isa), and help Muslims to change the world into an Islamic abode."
So, my conclusion is, in spite of all the similarities, something is wrong about this Isa/Jesus. Perhaps a very close counterfeit. I'm also thinking the word "Kalimatullah" as in according to this discription of their Isa/Jesus at the site, "Kalimatullah - The True Word of God" A similar site said,
"JESUS (PBUH) "IS A WORD FROM ALLAH" NOT "THE WORD OF ALLAH"
I'd appreciate some input from other reader's if you have time to read through the material at the following link. -Rudi
http://www.kalimatullah.com/
The other site I mentioned is here:
http://tinyurl.com/ac3lbb
Thanks Rudi, Dave and Terri,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the feed back and am still keeping my eyes open regarding any spiritual leader Rick Warren included. One of the problems with modern Christianity is the blind faith that we put into our leaders. I know that not everyone does this but a vast majority of believers don't do the research or study of scripture that is so important and just blindly follow.
On the other hand I think that there is the problem of finding the devil under every stone or behind every pulpit that is equally as harmful.
In looking at Rick Warren's web site before the election I noticed of course his affiliation with the ONE project which is interesting. But I also agreed with much of what he said about how Christians need to be pro-active in not only spreading the gospel but in helping those in need. Especially those with AIDS and those who are suffering in famine.
There is a huge un-tapped resource in the Christian population of people who have the ability to help those in need but don't.
I see Warren speaking to those Christians and encouraging a movement of helping on a broader scale as well as most importantly bringing the good news of Jesus to the world.
I truly believe that if we are rooted in scriptural truth and are listening to the Holy Spirit than we will not be blinded by a false doctrine or by the great deception talked about in scripture.
The problem will be in those who call themselves Christians and yet don't know the Word, aren't in fellowship and aren't walking in relationship with the Lord.
Of course time will tell where each leader and persons allegiance lies and I personally don't put my faith in a fallible person. I put my faith in Jesus Christ!
I really appreciate the thought provoking discussion and you can bet I'm watching the times carefully for big and small deceptions!
Regarding the name "Isa" I see the problem's and untruths surrounding the belief in who he was.
ReplyDeleteI do know that there have been Muslims who actually found Jesus Christ when they began searching about who this "Isa" really was. I'm sure the Holy Spirit opened their eyes and showed them the error's in the Qur'an and guided them to God's truth.
I guess it's important for us to pray for and reach out to those who need the true Jesus, the Messiah who will come in clouds with glory someday (hopefully soon.)
From www.spaceweather.com (1/29/09)
ReplyDelete"Venus and the crescent Moon are having a lovely close encounter. They're so bright, you can see them even before the sky fades to black."
If you are being ridiculed by family or friends because they don't believe that the New World Order exists - show them this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.raidersnewsnetwork.com/full.php?news=23173
Rudi,
ReplyDeleteThere is a lot of bad stuff going on in the name of trying to "evangelize Muslims". This is very sad and comes out of some pretty big missions movements. If you are familiar with the name Jay Gary, a futurist who is associated with the world mission movement that will explain a lot. ( he's also associated with New Agers)
The truth is that Muslims are having dreams and visions and coming to believe in Yeshua, but there are many organizations who are trying to "finish the task" by using the Quran. To me this is a huge error. You don't use a lie to establish truth.
The post 9/11 world everyone woke up and said there are 1 billion and a half Muslims in the world and and somehow we need to "contextualize" the gospel message to reach them. Just like there are Messianic Jews, they wanted to make "Messianic Muslims". The problem with this is that the in doing so they are actually encouraging Muslims to stay in Islam and accept "Isa". Isa is not the Yesua of the Bible ( notice, there is a real word in Arabic for Jesus/Yeshua).
The obvious difference with Jews is that the first believers were actually Jews and they were following Torah which is the Bible. They just found their Messiah that Torah and the Prophets had told them about...very different situation than with Islam.
I guess the best analogy I can make, is it's like a Buddhist continue to practicing Buddhism and throw in Jesus. When we come to know Yeshua we are supposed to turn from our sins, our false gods our idolatrous practices not throw Him into the mix.
That's syncretism and is dangerous.
I think this stems out of the same mentality of trying to "market" the gospel. Every person that comes to know Yeshua is truly by a miracle, it's when God touches them and opens their eyes. Human beings try to make the message "palatable" and "contextualize" it end up compromising it. This is the problem with the Emergent movement too. It stems from how do we make the gospel appealing to the "post-moderns"?
The Quran is founded on some false premises.. One for example, the Muslims believe that it was Ishmael not Isaac who was taken to be sacrificed.
We know that Isaac was the son of promise, and through him comes Jacob, who became Israel and from the 4th tribe of Israel comes David, from who comes Yeshua. Muslims can come to know Yeshua, but they need to hear truth. By making the Quran an acceptable book, we perpetuate things that are not true and don't allow Muslims to be set free from the bondage of slavery to Islam.
I want to make a distinction between the Arab culture and Islam. There are many nice things in the Arab culture that are in fact biblical values, like hospitality for one.. Islam was superimposed on top of Arab culture and made to look as one in the same, but we need to make this separation. Muslims have been told that their "prophet" is the last prophet in a string of prophets... and so they have the true revelation, but the Quran has taken the stories of the Bible and changed them. The same characters are in it "sort of", but it is historically and Biblically inaccurate.
All one has to do is look at Jerusalem and we see the problem of Islam. Islam has tried to usurp what was given to Israel.. Remember what Yeshua said that the false shephards comes to rob, steal and destroy. Muslims can leave Islam and come to faith in Yeshua and many are today. The key is they must turn from Islam and come to Yeshua.. This is a very hard thing because as apostates they are considered worthy of death, but many have miraculously seen the truth and have come through the front door, not tried to mix a little Quran, with a little Bible.
I'll repeat what I said earlier, the Isa of the Quran is not the Yesua of the Bible.. Isa was not crucified, he did not die and was not resurrected. If someone comes to believe in the Lord based on the Quran, what happens when he finds out the rest of the Quran does not correspond with the Bible? They have been introduced to Yeshua, based on a lie.. Why should they believe the rest of what they're told?
I also believe this is part and parcel of "babel". There is so much confusion today between the 3 "abrahamic religions".. We try to lump it together to bring unity.
Not saying everyone who does this has bad motives..but I think it comes out of a certain idea that has been promoted today that we can compromise Scripture for the sake of "bringing people into the kingdom".
Broad is the path that leads to destruction...and people seem to have forgotten this. I firmly believe if their was a better understanding of Torah ( the first 5 books of the Bible) and God's instructions for holiness and separation we would not have this problem today. It's the same problem as churches teaching yoga, or walking labyrinths...Where is the idea that we serve a Holy God who has not changed..
Yes, we have access to the throne because of Yeshua's atoning work, but this is never an excuse to compromise the message of the Scriptures..because then we make what He did a mockery. Yeshua came to bring life.. If a Muslim comes to faith in Yeshua, they need to turn from their life of false worship and turn to the true and living God.
Joyce
Thanks, Rudi for going into Babel. It's true some of the buildings in San Francisco one especially looks similar. It's the pride of man all over again.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Gretchen: Yes, I did misunderstand that letter. Then I would have to disagree with Mr. Norris. Warren is dangerous to us as Christians, when it comes to globalization and a NWO. He's playing right into the hands of the globalists either knowingly or not. He strongly believes in the dialectic diaprax system in his PDL program which is unscriptural.
Amen! Yes Na Spanish Town:
ReplyDeleteArab Christians use the name Yasu for the Jesus we know and love. Rick Warren continues on a dangerous and broad path. This was done apparently in the name of political expediency. For those who believe he is positioning himself to be a voice for the Lord, should make note how easily he betrayed the Lord by being "inclusive" and using the name Isa. As for me, I'm not holding my breath waiting for him to "take a stand".
My Comment: For whatever reason Warren included "Isa" in his prayer, politically speaking the religion of Islam was included; and it had nothing to do with the Jesus we know.
Civility is his favorite word and he thinks we should just "all get along". It would be better to please God than men.
Wow, Rudi!
ReplyDeleteI have tracked Duane Elgin as a most serious New Age player -- close to David Spangler and rest of crew -- since 1981. The first book I bought of his was part of the Bantam New Age Series and was entitled "VOLUNTARY SIMPLICITY."
THANKS for bringing this critical information to our attention!
Constance
Gretchen,
ReplyDeleteI would love to give Rick Warren the benefit of the doubt, because I don't like to criticize people who are ministering..but I have heard him say sooo many things that are so unscriptural. He says that faith communities should work together, Jews, Christians and Muslims to solve the problems of world hunger and poverty. The goal is not to affirm other faiths..which is what I heard him do at Davos last year.
He signed the Common Word, sadly, along with many other Evangelical and Jewish leaders, which is starts off with the Muslim invocation of Allah and "his prophet Mohamed". This reminds me of when the Israelites unwittingly signed a treaty with the Gibeonites in Joshua.
He is part of CFR, by his own admission.. I did not take this from the World Net Daily. He does mention "Jesus" but the problem is that he is part of the "post-modern" confusion.
He set up Synagogue 3000 to help Jews make better synagogues.. Wouldn't it be a better use of his time to help Jews know their Messiah? He is part of the promotion of Emergent Church which to my mind is the worst example of the confusion entering the body of Messiah. Some of the Emergents don't even acknowledge the Bible as being true and authoritative.. He has Purpose Driven for Catholics..
Rick is trying to bring everyone into "Purpose Driven" not to the Messiah.. If the Lord is not the one who receives all the glory and there is a spirit of confusion, one has to ask questions.
Whether Rick causes this confusion by accident or design, I don't want to say. I don't want to judge his motives because I can't, but the fruit of what he does is confusion.
Shepherds are supposed to feed sheep. Rick's Purpose Driven is spiritual junk food. It's worse than McDonald's. People don't know how to study the Scriptures for themselves.. We are supposed to engage with the text of Scripture and learn to hear God's voice, not Rick Warren's.
The problem today in the Evangelical world is it has fallen prey to making rock stars.. and congregations are judged by how many people they can draw, how good their programs are, etc.. There is more emphasis on quantity than the quality and truth of what's being taught. Sadly the consumer driven culture has become the driving force in many congregations.. Instead of people being Scripture-driven, they are Purpose Driven.
Joyce
Everybody should check these out:
ReplyDelete"Brauch Plan"
"Hans Gunter Brauch"
"Water Management Policy"
"Euro-Mediterranean Survival Pact"
"Survival Pact"
Pray for me as I go through tomorrow and Fridya night. My husband is scheduled for surgery a week from yesterday -- pacemaker replacement ordered by his cardiologist.
Constance
Rudi,
ReplyDeleteI just want to make another analogy for you.. using the Quran to reach Muslims is tantamount to using Externalization of the Hierarchy to read New AGers..Alice Bailey mentions Jesus, doesn't she?
A lie, is a lie, is a lie..
Joyce
"(Washington, DC)—The Institute for Health Freedom (IHF) warns that the economic stimulus bill mandates electronic health records for every citizen without providing for opt-out or patient consent provisions. "Without those protections, Americans’ electronic health records could be shared—without their consent—with over 600,000 covered entities through the forthcoming nationally linked electronic health-records network," says Sue A. Blevins, IHF president.
ReplyDelete'President Obama has pledged to advance freedom. Therefore the freedom to choose not to participate in a national electronic health-records system must be upheld,' Blevins says. 'Unless people have the right to decide if and when their health information is shared or whether to participate in research studies, they don’t have a true right to privacy.' "
"Some provisions of the economic stimulus bill include:
* "The utilization of an electronic health record for each person in the United States by 2014."
* "The National Coordinator shall perform the duties…consistent with the development of a nationwide health information technology infrastructure that allows for the electronic use and exchange of information and that…facilitates health and clinical research…"
Link to worldviewtimes.com article-
http://tinyurl.com/d395y5
Socialization: hook, line, sinker.
By His Grace,
-SV
Tim & I will be praying for you and your husband Constance.
ReplyDeleteJoyce,
ReplyDeleteI do agree with you that the move to the NWO is advancing through the attitudes surrounding the emergent church and other post-modern ideas. Being a young-ish evangelical (gen-xer), the more kindly, less offensive gospel is attractive to me. Those my age and me included have balked against "falseness" we are a cynical and yet idealistic group.
Obama looks so good to my peers because he comes across as being so gentle, wise and non-judgmental. Warren fits this profile as well. There is nothing wrong with these traits in fact they are lovely to posses but with the wrong intention or motivation they are false and deceptive.
Luckily, I had the privilege of growing up in an environment that put God's word first, where questions were welcomed, and idealistic ways of thinking were put to the test.
I am personally shocked when I have found that many people around my age are very uninterested in end times issues and have almost no knowledge of basic topics like one world government, currency and other coming prophetic events. (i.e. purpose driven instead of scripture driven).
Before coming to Constance's web site I really hadn't thought much about Rick Warren. I read his book at some point but it didn't make much of a dent in my brain. I figured he was just another Evangelical pastor doing his thing. I knew people who had attended his church my Aunt and Uncle being in the mix.
This discussion has made me really take a good look at what is being taught and accepted by those around me. As well as what I think is "normal". I'll continue to keep my eyes and ears open.
Constance, you and your husband will be in my prayers.
ReplyDeleteGretchen,
ReplyDeleteIt makes me happy to know that among your generation there are serious young people like yourself. You might be one, like a Joshua who will stand out in your generation and help your peers to understand things. Don't get frustrated.. When the Lord gives you understanding He will use you for something. In the meantime, use your time wisely to grow so that when there are people who are willing to listen you will be fully equipped to answer their questions..
I think you will have a lot of opportunities with what's going on in our day.. Just remember, not everyone will get it and we all need God's wisdom at this moment in history so that we can touch those who are needing to hear truth. There will be people who are hungry and thirsty..and He'll lead you to them and use you. Sometimes His time table and ours are different...Moses spent 40 years in Midian learning to be a shepherd before God called Him to lead Israel out of Egypt..
Blessings to you,
Joyce
1/30/2009
ReplyDeleteJoyce wrote: "I firmly believe if their was a better understanding of Torah ( the first 5 books of the Bible) and God's instructions for holiness and separation we would not have this problem today."
I will say "Amen!" to that.
Len
Thank you Joyce, Terri, Gretchen & Margie for some great feedback on the Islam/Isa and Rick Warren
ReplyDeletetopic. Truth isn’t something that can be compromised and still end up as Truth. You can’t take something pure, add to it, or take away from it and have the same substance. It will be changed.
Also, thanks anonymous for sharing the Chuck Baldwin article on the NWO. -Rudi
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
Proverbs 30:5-6
Something that gets way too less emphasis is the fact that God is holy. Renewal/rebirth is crucial to grasp that fact and live a life pleasing in His eyes (it actually makes you fear God and makes one want to please God above people).
ReplyDeleteRenewal means serving God on His terms, without renewal is serving God on your own terms. This makes me understand why Yeshua had to come. There is no other way for us to ever come into the presence of such holiness and live then through someone who is God (perfect) but also like us, who is holy and sinned not, bore our sin, tasted death and resurrected because death could not hold His Perfect Holiness.
God Himself provided the Perfect Lamb. What God provides is perfect and must be kept pure.
Silvia
I think this is a very revealing new age poem or 'Statement" written by a new ager it really seems to describe Blavatsky’s New World Servers
ReplyDeleteThis was on Neale Donald Walsh's Humanities Team website:
http://humanitysteam.org/news
On the surface of the world right now there is war and violence and things seem dark
But calmly and quietly, at the same time, something
else is happening underground
An inner revolution is taking place and certain individuals
are being called to a higher light
It is a silent revolution
From the inside out
From the ground up
It is time for me to reveal myself
I am an embedded agent of a secret, undercover
Clandestine Global operation
A spiritual conspiracy
We have sleeper cells in every nation on the planet
You won't see us on the T.V.
You won't read about us in the newspaper
You won't hear about us on the radio
We don't seek any glory
We don't wear any uniform
We come in all shapes and sizes
Colors and styles
Most of us work anonymously
We are quietly working behind the scenes in every country
and culture of the world
Cities big and small, mountains and valleys, in farms and villages,
tribes and remote islands
You could pass by one of us on the street and not even notice
We go undercover
We remain behind the scenes
It is of no concern to us who takes the final credit
But simply that the work gets done
Occasionally we spot each other in the street
We give a quiet nod and continue on our way so no one will notice
During the day many of us pretend we have normal jobs
But behind the false storefront, at night is where the real work takes place
Some call us the 'Conscious Army'
We are slowly creating a new world with the power of our minds and hearts
We follow, with passion and joy
Our orders from the Central Command
The Spiritual Intelligence Agency
We are dropping soft, secret love bombs when no one is looking
Poems
Hugs
Music
Photography
Movies
Kind words
Smiles
Meditation and prayer
Dance
Social activism
Websites
Blogs
Random acts of kindness
We each express ourselves in our own unique ways
with our own unique gifts and talents
'Be the change you want to see in the world'
That is the motto that fills our hearts
We know it is the only way real transformation takes place
We know that quietly and humbly we have the power
of all the oceans combined
Our work is slow and meticulous
Like the formation of mountains
It is not even visible at first glance
And yet with it entire tectonic plates shall be moved in the centuries to come
Love is the new religion of the 21st century
You don't have to be a highly educated person
Or have any exceptional knowledge to understand it
It comes from the intelligence of the heart
Embedded in the timeless evolutionary pulse of all human beings
Be the change you want to see in the world
Nobody else can do it for you
We are now recruiting
Perhaps you will join us
Or already have....
All are welcome...
The door is open
-Brian Piergrossi (www.thebigglow.com)
(From the book 'The Big Glow')
Rose
Gretchen,
ReplyDeleteYears ago a few of us debated whether a right heart was more important or a perfect doctrinal position; I’ve had opportunity to see, for a born again believer, that heart is more a reliable factor, because it was heart that pushed Abram and he became Abraham, it was heart that Joseph loved his evil brothers, it was heart that a jar of nard was spilled on our Lord; it is in a new heart the Word of God is able to blossom into a faith that works by love: non of us are superfluous, we are all loved by Jesus and our value is in His investment in us. I think a lot of your attitude is what the church needs today, because you are not going to get away from the Rick Warrens, but you can be used by God to warn and to point to The Word those things which the post-modern church so desperately needs, Christ is coming, the church has lost its first love, we over-come by the blood of the Lamb and the testimony of our mouths, “And this is the victory which overcomes the world; even our faith.” So, this is my way of saying thank you for having a tender heart and warning us to be gentle as doves.
Joyce said: “Wouldn't it be a better use of his time to help Jews know their Messiah?” I agree with you; if we love Jesus, and love all these people, then the greatest expression of that love is to point to the Cross and an empty tomb. Remember the woman at the well? It didn’t take her long to become an evangelist!
ReplyDeleteRose 5:50 A.M.
ReplyDeleteI wish i had not read that 5:50 post after such a big breakfast!!! LOL
Rose 5:50
ReplyDeleteThe whole spiel is like a
hijacking or plagiarism of
traditional Christianity and
evangelism, only without
the God and his Savior part.
It was probably stolen (and twisted)
from a Christian tract somewhere.
Constance,
ReplyDeleteI will certainly keep you and your husband in my prayers as your husband prepares to undergo surgery.
From Drudge-
ReplyDeletehttp://busines.timesonline.co.uk/
tol/business/economics/wef/
article5617169.ece
From Times OnlineJanuary 30, 2009
Turkey hails PM as 'Conquerer of Davos' after walkout
Catherine Philp in Davos
Turkey’s Prime Minister returned home to a hero's welcome this morning after storming off stage at the World Economic Forum in
Davos during a heated spat over Israel’s assault on Gaza.
etc.
JS has a new entry at his website which outlines his priorities for this year.
ReplyDeleteWe hear a lot re: Warren's PEACE plan and the three-legged stool--that government, community (churches) and business must work together to solve the world's 5 big giants.
ReplyDeleteWhile on the surface this sounds good, in reality it is a Plan of the enemy to weaken the true gospel of Jesus Christ. My Christian friends believe that it's good for Warren to be in all these boards to bring a voice for Jesus.
Yet we heard him mix Isa with Jesus. Many Christians were excited about Mike Huckabee who seems bold in his faith and appears to be a solid Bible-believing Christian. Chuck Norris campaigned for him.
Sadly, Huckabee is also a promoter of Bono's ONE campaign in which the "COEXIST" message is preached. See http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?fa=Videos.View&Video_id=adf7176d-8e87-4157-880c-7721d0eacdf7
or http://tiny.cc/e563J
I do believe true Christians can and should be involved in public service and be a voice for truth. We must pray for those in leadership. No one is immune from deception and political connections and alliances are dangerous.
Terri
Constance,
ReplyDeleteI must have missed the post about your husband's surgery. I'll be praying for both of you too.
Blessings,
Joyce
Constance , you husband is in my prayers.
ReplyDeleteSavvy
This must be how Chicago politics works, and I think we are getting a civics lesson: Obama gives ex. Orders giving more power to unions, Hollywood, and to ‘planned parenthood’, not to mention probable billions of dollars earmarked for community action. Anyone ever hear of ACORN?
ReplyDeleteI remember believing that a person could work hard and get above middle class, now the talk seems to be that being middle class is what we hope for, and maybe no more. Someone will have to pay. Anybody got any money?
Good site for explaining the background of the NA movement to others--
ReplyDeletehttp://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/ChristNAM.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/ar5yl4
Rose: That poem does make it pretty clear what the New Age agenda is and what they are thinking. Agree with you Paul; "it is twisted" and I'll add devilish thought being expressed.
ReplyDeleteThis is just a hunch that occurred to me. Perhaps they are directing this toward Christians who will be checking out their website and hoping it will instill fear of what is coming. How many other places is this poem posted? It could be a sneaky attack. Rather devious if this is the case.
Dear Constance,
ReplyDeleteYou and your husband are in my prayers. God bless you both.
Sincerely In Him,
-SV
Barbara Marx Hubbard at Democratic National Convention - "citizens solutions" for the new era.
ReplyDeleteNew Age leader and activist Barbara Marx Hubbard has played an instrumental role with Marianne Williamson in efforts to bring about a Department of Peace in Washington, DC.
In Hubbard's book, Happy Birthday Planet Earth, she states:
Christ-consciousness and Christ-abilities are the natural inheritance of every human being on Earth. When the word of this hope has reached the nations, the end of this phase of evolution shall come. All will know their choice. All will be required to choose.....
All who choose not to evolve will die off; their souls will begin again within a different planetary system which will serve as kindergarten for the transition from self-centered to whole-centered being.
The kindergarten class of Earth will be over. Humankind's collective power is too great to be inherited by self-centered, infantile people."
(Quoted from Let Us Reason and Lighthouse Research)
See full article and video at:
http://tinyurl.com/d6adj7
Dave in CA
Praying too, Constance.
ReplyDeleteLots of prayers headed your way!
ReplyDeleteRose
Constance
ReplyDeleteWe will be praying for God's direction and the complete healing of your husband and for your complete peace of mind.
Phil. 4:7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Psa. 34:17 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles.
Phil. 4:19 And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.
Dave in CA
Prayers going up for you and your husband, Constance!
ReplyDeleteMariel
On today's Druge Report:
ReplyDeleteMichael Steele wins RNC chairmanship race
Former Maryland lt. governor to be first African-American head
--Associated Press
Many prayers being offered today for you and your husband, Constance
ReplyDeleteMe too Constance. -Rudi
ReplyDeleteHello Everyone,
ReplyDeleteWe had the flu hit our house a few weeks ago (right after we put up my new website - I took that as confirmation that I was doing something good!) and I've been out of it since. We've had a few other attacks as well, but are doing better.
Tonight I was thankfully able to attend the event where Constance was speaking and had a wonderful time. I met some great people, including Constance (that was awesome!) It was a very informative presentation, I can see I've missed allot of news in the past few weeks.
If anyone else from the blog went, I'm sorry I missed you and didn't get to put a face to the name.
I pray everyone is doing well.
Suzette
Rudi,
ReplyDeleteGetting back to your article from Duane Elgin, just wanted to add a couple of things.. We can tie Willis Harman who is connected Elgin. Now look at this Berit Kjos article on Harman and the Evangelicals. Harman links to Rick Warren and to Leonard Sweet the Emergent..
http://tinyurl.com/yvjzkc
and then take a look at this site, particularly the article "Is Spirituality the Fourth bottom line".
http://tinyurl.com/yvjzkc
I want to take a more careful look at this later.
Joyce
From Infowars.net (01/30/09):
ReplyDeleteObama’s Promise of a Civilian Security Force is Set in Motion
The Defense Department has established a “civilian expeditionary workforce” that will see American civilians trained and equipped to deploy overseas in support of worldwide military missions.
The move is seen by some as an initial step towards fulfilling President Obama’s promise to form a civilian national security force as powerful as the U.S. military.
The intent of the program “is to maximize the use of the civilian workforce to allow military personnel to be fully utilized for operational requirements,” according to a Defense Department report.
The program was officially implemented one week ago, on the 23rd January, when Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England signed [3] Defense Department Directive 1404.10 (PDF), which provides a summation of the duties the workforce will undertake.
The directive, which is effective immediately, states that civilian employees of the DoD will be asked to sign agreements stating that they will deploy in support of military missions for up to two years if needed.
Workforce members, who are divided into different designations under the directive, will serve overseas in support of humanitarian, reconstruction and, if necessary, combat-support missions.
“If the employee does not wish to deploy, every effort will be made to reassign the employee to a non deploying position.” the DoD report states.
While the directive suggests that the DoD will at first seek volunteers to serve in the civilian workforce, section 4, subsection (e) paragraph (2) states:
Management retains the authority to direct and assign civilian employees, either voluntarily, involuntarily, or on an unexpected basis to accomplish the DoD mission.
In addition, the directive states that all workforce members will be subject to physical and psychological testing, both before and after deployment.
The directive refers several times to the civilian workforce as a component of the “Total Force”, which it describes as “The organizations, units, and individuals that compromise the DoD resources for implementing the National Security Strategy.” This “Total Force” includes active, reserve and retired military personnel in addition to DoD civilian employees.
Back in July 2008, Barack Obama, then the presidential front runner, called for a “civilian national security force” as powerful as the U.S. military.
“We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded,” Obama told a Colorado Springs audience.
The comments that were ignored by the vast majority of the corporate media but compared by independent journalists to the formation of the Nazi Hitler Youth.
Fears of “youth brigades” or civilian stasi style units increased following Obama’s appointment of Rahm Emanuel to chief-of staff.
In his book, “The Plan: Big Ideas for America,” Emanuel writes: “It’s time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, all Americans between the ages of 18 and 25 will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service.”
The book also notes, “Some Republicans will squeal about individual freedom, ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt out of universal citizen service.”
Emanuel is also an enthusiastic supporter of the United States Public Service Academy Act, a lobbying group founded in 2006 in order to promote the foundation of an American public service academy modeled on the military academies - a youth corps whose students would be trained in “civilian internship in the armed forces”.
Furthermore, in a rediscovered 2006 audio clip of an interview with Ben Smith of the New York Daily News, Emanuel outlined the agenda for compulsory military-style training, essentially a domestic draft, aimed at preparing Americans for a chemical or biological terrorist attack.
When controversy arose over the program last November, the use of the word “required” to describe the program was removed from Obama’s change.gov website and replaced with “community service” type terminology.
Though the civilian expeditionary workforce program is restricted to DoD employees, similar programs have already been established for public sector workers.
One such program has seen hundreds of police, firefighters, paramedics and utility workers recently trained and dispatched as “Terrorism Liaison Officers” in Colorado, Arizona and California to watch for “suspicious activity” which is later fed into a secret government database.
Dear Constance,
ReplyDeleteI hope that all goes well with your husband's pacemaker replacement. Will pray for you both.
Good luck also with your show on Tuesday. It sounds very interesting.
MAryanne
A civilian security force doesn't make much sense. Why not have them join the military? They already have a training program. So, I don't understand the point of such a security force. Another attempt to create another near trillion dollar spending program? An attempt to recreate the Guardian Angels, but on a larger scale?
ReplyDeleteDavid in B.C.
Re: the Lucis Trust article about Obama at the top of the thread:
ReplyDeleteConstance, I have mentioned that Easter article a couple of times here before, but I'm not sure anyone noticed. Glad you posted it. Also, I wrote about it back in May when I first started my blog. I also felt the Lucis logo was connected to Obama's choice of logo as well. (The rising sun). If you go to the lucistrust.org website and right click on the logo, go down to properties and click on it. You'll discover that the person or people that designed their website used frontpage (nothing unusual about that) and titled the logo "Let the future stand revealed 33". Weird title for a jpg photo if you ask me. I title the photos of my art all the time for my website, and I do think that titling a logo that way is significant.
My old blog entry is here if you want to compare the two logos side by side:
http://the-obama-nation.blogspot.com/2008/05/let-future-stand-revealed.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/c4gbpw
SOLANA LINK
ReplyDeleteAlso, Oldmanoftheski brought to my attention the fact that this link was mentioned on this blog recently , possibly by Rudi or Joyce:
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/cms3_applications/applications/solana/index.asp?cmsid=246&lang=EN
or
http://tinyurl.com/3bzyhc
Not sure that anyone has mentioned this or not, as I haven't been able to follow this blog regularly this week, but it appears that the Solana site has been hacked.
Go to the last link in the column to the left and click on it. It's been hacked by what appears to be a very frightful group. (Warning: foul language and anti-semitism!)
I didn't follow the link , as I'm sure it has a virus attached, but if any brave soul decides to do so, let us know what you find out!
David in BC:
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts about the civilian force are pretty depressing. I am wondering if the fact that so many Americans are currently losing their jobs will lead them to join this civilian force out of desperation for some sort of compensation. The training will be mandatory and then people will probably be 'invited' to go full time as a salaried or compensated position, much like the military, only this civilian force will have been brain washed to probably be heartless in its tactics. If Obama could use conversational hypnotism to trick so many of the youth and intelligent people to vote for him, then think what they can do with a tool like conversational hypnosis incorporated into training in terms of convincing young people that it's their duty or obligation to hurt or kill 'dissidents' in order to bring about peace and harmony in the world.
I hope I'm wrong, though. Scary.
Solana website:
ReplyDeleteThe more I think about this, how likely is it that the EU site would be hacked and them not know about it?
COuld this be a trojan horse?
I just tried to go to the Big Glow website (Rose 5:50am) from google and it pops up a warning about the site being a hazard to my computer. Has anyone else encountered this or had issues?
ReplyDeleteThe civilian "workforce" is one of the scariest things about this whole thing. It reminds me of the Nazi motto "Arbeit mach frei" - "Work makes free". It was spelled out in iron on the gates at the train offloading spot at the Dachau concentration camp in Germany.
Suzette
Young Grasshopper,
ReplyDeleteI was talking to my friend this a.m. We were discussing the faith vs even the devil believes in God issue. I was telling her of your blog about this subject, I read it a while ago. Can you tell me which one it is so I can pass it on to her?
Thanks
Suzette
I spelled it wrong, my German is very rusty, it's Arbeit Macht Frei, I was posting from memory but I found a wiki article on it
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeit_macht_frei
Suzette
Over at Fulfilled Prophecy there is yet another article with Solana giving praises for Obama. I have watched The Two Towers from the Lord of the Rings and I see two towers rising on both sides of the Atlantic.
ReplyDeleteDavid in B.C.
Update on the situation with the Shoah-denying priest..and the Vatican.
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/couyna
Joyce
Breaking news from Worldnet Daily on the legitimacy of Obama's presidency:
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/cno67s
Joyce
Anonymous 4:51 AM
ReplyDeleteGood find and good post! Interesting given all the flap about Blackwater, isn't it?
My question is - just WHO will be deciding which foreign/military(including combat)/"humanitarian" missions OUR civilians will be called upon to "support"? Will it be our own presumably "elected" democratic government - or the U.N.?
To David in B.C.
Re: your comment
A civilian security force doesn't make much sense. Why not have them join the military? They already have a training program. So, I don't understand the point of such a security force.
Good point. Moreover, I think you also answered your own question - perhaps without realizing it.
By using euphemistic twaddle like "community service," "security force," etc., the politicians who are currently hiding behind the DoD in order to implement this program without having to take any political "heat" for it obviously hope to manipulate public opinion into not calling what may amount to "a new draft" by its right name.
Else why would the word "required" be omitted from the "Obamian lexicon" and replaced with "newspeak" terminology like
"community service" and "humanitarian reconstruction" the minute controversy arose over this new version of "the draft?"
P.S.
ReplyDeleteOops. I meant to type Anonymous 5:51 AM. Sorry for the typo.
Thank you, Susanna for your words of support regarding my 5:51 AM post. ;~)
ReplyDeleteThis is the DRAFT (just sugar coated and disguised).
Hi Joyce-
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you brought my attention back to Berit's article. I must have read it too fast the first time, and missed some of the key names included, and also Berit pointing to the 2005 articles at Herescope about what Willis Harman said to evangelicals at the earlier conference. The second link you posted is the same as the first. Do you have another? I did some checking on "Google" using,
"Is Spirituality the Fourth bottom line" and found some info from "Metafuture.org" This is a "futures" group working out of Australia with obvious connections to people like Duane Elgin and the World Future Society. Is this what you were linking too? -Rudi
******************************
http://tinyurl.com/bv5fbr
http://www.metafuture.org/index.html
*******************************
Herescope Willis Harman info:
http://tinyurl.com/czeodj
http://herescope.blogspot.com/2005/09/willis-harman-speaks-to-evangelicals.html
Hi Susanna-
Excellent insight regarding the political "use of euphemistic twaddle like "community service," "security force," etc. to
"manipulate public opinion into not calling what may amount to "a new draft" by its right name."
Good eye anonymous 5:51 am! -Rudi
Young Grasshopper,
ReplyDelete33 is a big number among the
Freemasons. The 33rd degree
being the highest one can attain as a
Freemason.
I believe that the 33rd Latitude goes
through Jerusalem
"33" is also found on Rolling Rock
Beer labels and no one seems to
know why. Probably the original
brewer was a Freemason.
More signs of the times . . .
ReplyDeleteAustralia is experiencing an unprecidented heat wave which is impacting that continent not unlike a natural disaster: power black outs, buckling trains and tram lines, etc.
The town of Adelaide has had temperatures of 104 degrees F for 6 consecutive days.
To Young Grasshopper (10:03 AM):
ReplyDeleteRe: "I am wondering if the fact that so many Americans are currently losing their jobs will lead them to join this civilian force out of desperation for some sort of compensation. The training will be mandatory and then people will probably be 'invited' to go full time as a salaried or compensated position . . ."
___________________________________
You and Alex Jones seem to be on the same page. He has suggested (in a video on his web site) that this may be a method for how desperate people, who are out of work, may be taken off to the FEMA camps (willingly and voluntarily) under the pretext that the government "will feed and take care of you" in exchange for some type of "work program" - but he has advised, "DON'T GO."
Is this the reason why gun sales are now up 400%???
75,000 people lost their job last Monday; 10,000 more on Tuesday.
May God help us all.
FEMA & NWO--
ReplyDeletehttp://www.uaff.us/deathcamps.htm
Second attempt to post this:
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 4:20,
I don’t follow Alex Jones because I don’t believe that God wants us to live in fear of Fema camps. Nonetheless, after having many conversations with people this week who are getting desperate, maybe I’d better reconsider where we are heading.
I just finished a very heavy blog post linking Obama to Revelation 13:18.
I really had a difficult time deciding if I should write it or not, but I figured if Constance could go on the radio Tuesday night and interview the guy about the Russian connection, even though her husband is having surgery that week, then I might as well bite the bullet and spit out my own thoughts as well.
I am not saying that what I wrote is significant. I am just saying it’s good to know and take it or leave it for whatever it’s worth.
I also want to thank anonymous 5:51 for your comment. Sobering news indeed , but hardly surprising.
Paul, you should read this, too. I talk about that 33 number again…
My blog link:
http://the-obama-nation.blogspot.com/2009/01/whats-in-name.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/buehxs
Guillotines and Christian Persecution--
ReplyDeletehttp://educate-yourself.org/ps/confrimsguillotinesfortlewis28jun08.shtml
or
http://tinyurl.com/49pbbt
If true, this certainly puts a home-grown twist on John's vision of: "...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;...."
Pre-, mid-, or post- not withstanding, it expands the databse of those who will be severing our heads from us (not just Muslims).
Sorry,
ReplyDeleteThere was an error in Part 2 of the graphics. It's fixed now.
In addition to the FEMA camps, there are also those KBR (Kellogg/Brown & Root) "holding centers" at various locations in every state.
ReplyDeleteCOMMUNITY SERVICE.
ReplyDeleteThere's no doubt about it. In Ohio the Democratic Governor has big plans. He wants compulsory all-day kindergarten. He wants and extra four weeks of school per year. He wants a longer school day. Part of that extra time at school is to be spent on COMMUNITY SERVICE. It will be required to get a crummy diploma. You may not be able to read or cipher but you will be trained to work for The State. The school district that steals tax money from me claims his plan will require 20 more classrooms and 20 more teachers. Think how that will add to the taxes stolen from us. The problem is - most people don't see anything wrong with this. They have been trained already to be COMMUNITARIANS. That's a euphemism for Communists. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. His needs being what the government decides on. I hope this entire country goes down the tubes.
Anonymous 7:37 (PM)
ReplyDeleteAnd where will you go once that happens?
Why you ask your children what is happening in their classroom:
ReplyDeletehttp://newsblaze.com/story/20090127224509nnnn.nb/topstory.html
January 27,2009
Pledge of Allegiance Becomes Pledge to Obama
By Alan Gray, NewsBlaze
A parent in the Clark County School District of Las Vegas, Henderson area reported January 27th that his son, who is in 1st grade, came home yesterday saying that he didn't want to go back to school anymore.
When asked why, the boy said that during the Pledge of Allegiance the teacher put up a large image of Obama next to the flag.
Thinking that the boy might be exaggerating, the man asked his son if he was sure, and suggested that by "large" he might mean an 8x10 photo of the president. The boy apparently said "No, it is a large picture of Obama and when we are done, the teacher turns off the image."
The same thing was not done for President Bush last year.
After investigating this morning, the other parent reported that what the boy said was true.
At least three of the five classrooms have an overhead projector and as the children stand to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, the teacher turns on the classroom overhead and a full body image of Obama, with six U.S. flags behind him, comes up about 4 feet away from the flag that hangs on the wall. The screen is apparently around five feet by six feet.
In the image, President Obama appears to be staring straight out with no facial expression, just a serious look. All of the kids in each class faced the President, instead of the flag that hangs in the corner.
Local parents are up in arms over this situation. Teachers clearly do not realize the gravity of what they are doing.
Update Jan 28th: The parents spoke to the Vice-Principal this afternoon. He said he would take care of it. I will check with them tomorrow and update this story.
Update Jan 29th: The teachers at the school today talked to the children about flag etiquette and the meaning of the flag and why the pledge is made. The lights were left on in the room, so the flag could be clearly seen and the children were told that they should face towards and look at the flag. The parent spoke to the Principal and the child's teacher. The Principal said they would not show the image of the president at the same time as the pledge tomorrow. The Principal apologized for causing offense. The parent and Principal and teacher left on good terms.
Anyone can make a mistake - the measure of a person is what they do next. The Principal and the teachers did well - this is a good thing.
Note: the blogosphere is now saying this is a hoax because the school has not been named or the school district has not confimed it. Instead of seeing this as a situation that was amicably resolved, it is seen as an attack on Obama, which it never was, and an attack on the flag, which it never was. It is not a hoax.
Anonymous 6:10
ReplyDeleteThis rumor was circulating in the 1980s. Don't get taken in.
Hi Rudi,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your kind words.
Many years ago, there was a book written by a couple named Harry and Bonnaro Overstreet. The title of the book was WHAT WE MUST KNOW ABOUT COMMUNISM.
One of my favorite Chapters is THE PARADOX OF LEGALITY. I have to quote the chapter directly from my personal copy of the book because it is not available online.
Even at the expense of taking up more space than I ought, I think it is important for everyone to see the following quotes from this chapter while keeping in mind that the aforementioned book was published in 1958 and that the Socialists/Communists of our own generation have not been operating much differently than they did back then.
_________________________
It seems likely that we Americans will long continue to disagree about the extent to which Communist activities in this country can be or should be controlled by law. We do not disagree about their control, it can be assumed, in the case of provable subversion, sabotage, and espionage. If actions would be illegal if performed by a non-Communist, they are clearly illegal if performed by a Communist. Few persons would seriously argue otherwise. Few would argue that Communists are immune to legal control because they are Communists.
Yet even here, the CPUSA (Communist Party USA), by its application of a double standard, has muddied the waters. While it held no brief for Nazi agents during the war, it has managed again and again to put Soviet agents in a different category. By nationwide appeals and propaganda campaigns, it has cast them as "martyrs." (a.k.a. victims)
Thus there has come about a most curious situation. Many Americans who would not deny that espionage should be controlled, and who would scarcely claim that Communists are too "nice" even to attempt it, have been unwilling to believe that it has existed in any specific instance.
In the case of each individual charged with espionage, such Americans have been inclined to accept the CPUSA's versions - that the charge is a frame-up - and have scarcely bothered to weigh the evidence presented by our own government. For this evidence has been a matter of "cold" and difficult legalities, presented in the courts according to rules of evidence, while the Communist version has been brought to the targets' doorsteps - and to the thresholds of their minds - in the form of an "appeal" so couched to warm their sympathies and make them get hot under the collar. It has warmed their sympathies by presenting the Soviet agent as a victimized human being; and has made them get hot under the collar by a skillful relating of the case to their general anxiety about the state of civil liberties and their intense dislike of demagogues and "professional red-baiters."
Thus, many Americans have been moved to sign on the dotted line without noticing that the appeal "refutes" the whole body of governmental evidence by nothing more than a marshaling of emotion-laden stereotypes and irrelevancies.
Characteristically - to take a few concrete examples - such appeals, and also the articles written in support of them, label the arrest of the agent as one more product of a "pro-fascist reign of terror in the United States"; (a.k.a. "vast right wing conspiracy?")and dispose of the F.B.I. as "the department of frame-up headed by J. Edgar Hoover." Characteristically,also, they identify those who have engineered the arrest as belonging to the "anti-peace forces." They declare that if this "victim" can be thus "railroaded," then any "militant worker for peace and democracy" who runs afoul of the "fascists" in this country "can be framed by the same forces on trumped-up charges."
The question of whether or not the Soviet agent has been guilty of espionage slips out of sight. What is substituted for it amounts to a statement that a democracy is employing "police state methods" if it seeks to provide for the common defense by a legal control of totalitarianism's secret agents.
Actually, however, the problems that baffle us with regard to the legal status of Communist activities are not of this order. For no matter how much protest the Party may stir up in behalf of those arrested for breaking laws which any person, Communist or otherwise, would be arrested for breaking, the government will do what it has to do: namely, prosecute the case by "due process of law." All that the CPUSA can accomplish by its feverish campaign - and all, we must judge, that it expects to accomplish - is to fog the issue and to alienate a certain number of Americans from their own government. If it can do this, it can hope to have their residual anger and moral uneasiness about the case on tap for later use in other connections.
The disagreements which we most need to explore have to do with the best way of handling, not persons identified as Soviet agents, but the Communist Party itself as it operates in this country. Here- to take one contrast - two men as experienced as J. Edgar Hoover and Senator Hubert H. Humphrey represent different viewpoints. While J.Edgar Hoover has been careful not to step out of his own province to trespass upon that of policy-making, he has analyzed again and again - from the angle of law enforcement - the difficulties which would be created by outlawing the CPUSA and driving it underground. On the other hand, Hubert H. Humphrey, who conducted, during the 82nd congress, the hearings on Communist infiltration of the labor unions, became, in 1954, the author of the Communist Control Act. While this did not go so far as to outlaw the CPUSA, it circumscribed the Party's activities and required a far more detailed accounting of these than had previously been required. With striking impartiality, the Communists have called both men fascist-minded.
There would seem to be a moral implicit in this contrast between the viewpoints held by two good men and true: namely, that when we disagree with one another on this matter of Communism and the law, we do well to look beyond our disagreement, at the complexity of the problem. It is not enough for us to indulge in what Eric Bentley has called "motive mongering."
The genius of the CPUSA (Communist Party USA) has lain in its unique capacity to work for an illegal end by a variety of means many of which, taken separately, are within the letter of the law. To paraphrase a Marxian line of thinking, we might say that when enough of these lawful actions have been added up, a point is reached where quantitative change becomes qualitative: where the sum total of the lawful, viewed in the context of Party purposes and allegiances becomes unlawful. Yet - and here is the paradox - THERE IS OFTEN NO PRECISE STATUTE UNDER WHICH IT THUS BECOMES UNLAWFUL. Thus we find ourselves in a peculiar position: either, it appears, we have to let that which is illegal in its purposes and effects, but not in its immediate form, continue unrestrained; or else we have to run the risk that, by restraining it, we will curb the legitimate exercise of freedom as well as its illegitimate exploitation.
To take a concrete example of "lawful" illegality, we might return to a point which we touched upon in the preceding chapter: the Party's organized effort to disorganize the armen forces of the United States. Lenin himself knew and specified that what the Comintern demanded, in this connection, of all Communist Parties outside the Soviet Union was illegal; and that it would in the event of war, be "high treason." Yet this, he indicated, was a "bourgeois" consideration by which no Communist should be deterred.
The CPUSA has not been deterred by it. Consistently, except for the period of war-time alliance between the Soviet Union and the Western powers, it has maintained an organization and a program specifically designed to undermine morale and discipline in the armed forces. Few Americans would doubt, we can suppose, that the Party's purpose in this has been illegal. But have its actions in behalf of this purpose also been illegal? In many cases, we have no way of knowing how many - they must certainly have been so. But in countless cases, they have not been. That is to say, as separate ACTIONS, taken out of context of PURPOSE and PLAN, they have managed to stay within the LETTER of the law while flouting the SPIRIT of it.
There is no law against any American's expressing a derogatory opinion of our government's domestic or foreign policy. There is no law against a serviceman's griping about the chain of command, or the food, or the discipline, or the civilian public's lack of concern about whether the men in uniform live or die. There is no law against his surmising that the arms manufacturers are doing all right: not suffering at all from the world crisis. There is no law that forbids his wondering aloud why the government holds back from every peaceful overture made by the Soviet Union.
Moreover, there is no law that requires him to be accurate in what he says on any of these subjects. The government cannot sue a citizen for libel. The right to engage in unlimited, uninformed griping about our government is, we might say, implicit in the Constitution. If this right were declared obsolete, everything from smoking-car conversations to political campaigns would be so altered as to be unrecognizable; and the number of persons - in and out of the armed forces - who would be bound to sudden silence would roughly approximate the entire population of the country.
What,then, shall we say about the CPUSA's long-established tactics for undermining morale and discipline; and even, where strategically possible, for inciting to rebellion? Communist X says so-and-so about the fact that officers have it plenty soft; or that the administration in Washington wants a war to prevent a depression - and hopes a few million men will get killed, because dead men don't have to be supported on a W.P.A. program. But non-Communist Y may say more or less the same thing. Is ther - in terms that can be legally indicated - any difference?
Hard as it may be to pin down in any individual case, there is this difference: Non-Communist Y is speaking his own mind or his own mood; Communist X is speaking THE PARTY LINE. If this line changed, his "mind' or "mood" would change; or if it did not, he would be expelled from the Party. He, in brief is saying what he has been told to say; and what he has been told to say has, in broad terms, come down through a chain of command that reaches all the way to the Cominform. Elsewhere in the armed forces, Communists A to Z are, like himself, on the lookout for discontents, grievances, and boredoms to exploit and are implanting similar views where they think these will be most likely to make non-Communists A to Z accept the Parety line as their own opinion and echo it when they speak "their own minds" or "their own moods."
If we have any illusion that Communists A to Z are speaking as free individuals when they exercise their democratic rights, we need only remind ourselves of how some 55,000 Party members in this country "changed their minds" overnight when Hitler broke his pact with Stalin and invaded the Soviet Union. Up to that date the CPUSA had urgently pressed the idea that the war against Nazi Germany was "an unjust, reactionary, imperialist war."
1. Abruptly, however, when Hitler moved into Russia, THE COMMUNIST put forth a new slogan: "Defend America by giving full aid to the Soviet Union."
2.And the Education Department of the CPUSA circulated a brochure quoting Stalin to the effect that "the Second World War against the Axis powers as distinct from the First World War, assumed from the very beginning, an anti-fascist, liberating character, having also as one of its aims the reestablishment of democratic liberties"
3. Communists A to Z - in and out of the armen forces - realized suddenly that Stalin's view was precisely their own: that this was how they had felt about the war "from the very beginning."
___________________________
WHAT WE MUST KNOW ABOUT COMMUNISM
by Harry and Bonaro Overstreet
c 1958 W.W. Norton & Company, Inc. pp.217-223
Rudi,
ReplyDeleteSorry about that. Yes, you found it. The links between these folks and the Evangelicals are interesting, especially the Leonard Sweet, Rick Warren connection in light of some of the recent blogs about RW's role with the new administration, not to mention RW's role with Tony Blair, the CFR, etc.
This is an article from Christianity Today from 2003 where the Asst. Editor seems to grasp a bit of the New Age influence on the Evangelicals. Not sure that CT is as observant nowadays.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/february/1.34.html?start=1
http://tinyurl.com/auyzds
Joyce
On a different note, I've been struck at the quantity of anti-semitic events around the world since the recent Gaza operation. In today's Jerusalem Post there were several articles about different incidents, one in Venezuela, a synagogue that was attacked and the Torah scrolls destroyed. For those of you who have not followed Venezuela ( Chavez) an ally of Iran's, expelled the Israeli ambassador. Israel waited several days and then did likewise.
ReplyDeleteThe Jews in Venezuela have no protection now...so hopefully, they will begin to think seriously and quickly about making aliyah. ( going back to Israel). In Europe there have been numerous incidents of synagogues and Jewish stores attacked, not to mention that Spain is trying to accuse Israel of 'war crimes" for defending its territory which has been under attack for many years now..
The Pope reinstated that priest who is a Shoah denier, and the priest apologized to the Pope for causing him trouble, but not to the Jews who survived and lost family in the Shoah.
Last week which is always the week where many institutions commemorate Auschwiz's liberation, there were any number of organizations including a church in Sweden, that cancelled these celebrations because of Gaza.
Europe has large populations of Muslims and a significant presence of the Muslim brotherhood, sharia banking in several countries so this resurgence of anti-semitism does not come as a surprise of shock to anyone. Europe also gives billions of dollars of unsupervised financing to the Palestinian Authority which is known to go to textbooks and media which promote hostility toward Jews.. They turn a blind eye to this.
God says:
Jer. 30:3 ‘For behold, days are coming,’ declares the LORD, ‘when I will brestore the fortunes of My people Israel and Judah.’ The LORD says, ‘I will also dbring them back to the land that I gave to their forefathers and they shall possess it.’”
Notice He says, He will bring both houses, Israel (mixed with the nations) and Judah( the Jews) but prior to that time will be a time of Jacob's trouble:
Jer. 30:7 ‘Alas! for that day is great,
There is bnone like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s distress,
But he will be saved from it.
The fact that it is "Jacob's" trouble, suggests that it will not only be the Jews who suffer but all of Israel, that is in the nations before the Lord redeems all of Israel.
In today's Jerusalem post there were also articles about the Lost Tribes ( they are not lost to God, but only to themselves) There is this article but many underneath it:
http://tinyurl.com/asus9r
I don't necessarily think it's always clear who these tribes are or if in fact they are from the house of Judah ( Judah, Benjamin, Levy) but God will straighten that out. I just want to point out that God is faithful to His promises and we need to make sure we understand that this anti-semitism is part of the times, but we need to join ourselves to Israel whether we are Jews, part of the tribes, or part of the nations... If any of you attend any kind of congregation that is in favor of dividing Israel's land, or is hostile to Israel, I highly recommend you approach your leaders with the hundreds of passages about Israel's restoration and if they try to "spiritualize" these passages, find yourself another place of worship.. If you stay, you risk to be on the side of the anti-messiah agenda.
Israel appears in the bible over 2000 times.. Who actually is Israel, is a very interesting discussion, but if you've been reading any of my posts you will know that it's not only the Jews.. The Jews are for sure, but with the Jews, the 10 tribes who are scattered and mixed in the nations, and those from the nations who will be like the Ruth's of the world, who will not abandon Israel in its time of hardship ( remember Naomi was bitter from all of her loss) but who will attach themselves to Israel and their God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob..
Ruth's kinsman redeemer, Boaz, who comes from "the House of Bread" ( Bethlehem). is an absolute picture of Yeshua and Ruth was part of a people who were Israel's enemies( the Moabites) but she listened to the voice of God.
I believe there is a day coming soon, when all believers in Yeshua will have to decide very clearly where they stand. Pharaoh's daughter pulled Moses out of the Nile. The maji from the East did not go back to visit Herod..
Esther, a Jew living in the palace of Perisan King, did not let fear prevent her from standing up for her people.
It's not that I approve of everything Jews do, just because they are Jews. God says He will chastise Israel for its iniquities.. but He also says He will not be angry at them forever and He will destroy those nations who go against Israel.
Jer. 30:16 ‘Therefore all who adevour you will be devoured;
And all your adversaries, every one of them, bwill go into captivity;
And those who plunder you will be for plunder,
And all who prey upon you I will give for prey.
The Exodus will look mild compared to what happens when the Lord judges those nations who have come against Israel:
Jer. 30:24 The afierce anger of the LORD will not turn back
Until He has performed and until He has accomplished
The intent of His heart;
In the latter days you will understand this.
God has never stopped dealing with the physical descendants of Israel, His bride..because He is not a man that He should lie:
Hos. 1:10 1Yet the number of the sons of Israel
Will be like the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered;
And in the place
Where it is said to them,
“You are cnot My people,”
It will be said to them,
“You are the sons of the living God.”
Joyce
On another note, the increase in anti-semitism will accelerate the return of the Jews to their land and the fulfillment of end time restoration of All Israel:
ReplyDeleteEzek. 37:11-14 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are 1completely ccut off.’ “Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I will open your graves and acause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. “Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. “I will aput My 1Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken and done it,” declares the LORD.’”
God will put His Spirit in them...i.e. they will be born again, and resurrected from the dead.
Rom. 11:26 and so all Israel shall be saved, according as it hath been written, ‘There shall come forth out of Sion he who is delivering, and he shall turn away impiety from Jacob,
Joyce
Another item, I posted on Bjorn's but think is important to put here.. Tony Blair, the Mideast Envoy of the Quartet, the head of the ecumenic Tony Blair Interfaith Foundation, the former Prime Minister of UK, a recent convert to Catholicism....a lecturer now at Yale.. The moderator of the Interfaith talk at last year's Davos Forum.. thinks that we should talk to Hamas. .Some of Hamas mocked him..
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/bbrkfg
Yesterday, some members of Hamas mocked him for saying that..
I'll reserve my comments, but let you read the Hamas Charter, in case there's any doubt what Hamas believes:
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
I'd also like to point you to the site of MEMRI which translates Arabic materials into English, the kind of stuff we never see on ABC, CNN, etc.
http://www.memri.org/
Joyce
Here's the kind of videos we never get to see:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.memritv.org/video.html
A Dutch politician who did the film Fitna showing some of the more violent aspects of Islam was brought up on charges for this film:
http://tinyurl.com/882vkj
Now, one might question the wisdom of the film and certainly not all Muslims are violent jihadists, but there are quite a few groups who are like Hamas and Hizb'allah, not to mention quite a few others. In a Continent that prides itself in freedom of speech, this politician is being brought up on charges.
Prior to that there were some cartoons that caused the burning of embassies.. Now the cartoons were in bad taste, but does that justify such violent reactions..
Now presumably all these efforts of the UN and others like the Alliance of Civilizations, A Common Word, and Tony Blair's initiative not to mention countless other initiatives are supposed to bring "peace and understanding".. All of these superficial efforts to bring "peace" cannot change the hearts of men. Many of these same governments who are involved in the so-called peace efforts are giving billions of dollars to Hamas, which will not be spent on humanitarian help only, be sure of that.
The war in Gaza is bringing billions of dollars to Hamas, so guess who won the war...Mind you, I'm not blaming the poor people who live in Gaza, who have no say. They say that Palestinians voted for Hamas, but I'm not sure that it was as "democratic" as people think. .
Roughly a million Jews were kicked out of Arab lands in 48 when the State of Israel was formed, but no one mentions this fact...
http://tinyurl.com/aewzga
Joyce
Here's a film about the 10 tribes.. Not saying I agree with all of it, but it does give some of the history.
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/dbj7b7
I don't call Lost Tribes "Jews". I call them Israelites..
Amos 9:9 “For behold, I am commanding,
And I will ashake the house of Israel among all nations
As grain is shaken in a sieve,
But not a kernel will fall to the ground.
Joyce
Susanna, though I always read your posts with my own inadequacy I do have many thoughts concerning the value and importance of this one; I’ll mostly speak through those who said it better than I: Ann Coulter said: “I notice that liberals have not challenged the overall thesis of my rocketing bestseller, Guilty: Liberal 'Victims' and Their Assault on America , which is that liberals always play the victim in order to advance, win advantages and oppress others.”
ReplyDeleteFrom Daniel Pipes: “Ali al-Timimi, 41, a Ph.D. in computational biology and a self-professed Islamic scholar whom prosecutors described as enjoying "rock star" status among his followers in Virginia, was convicted today on all ten counts against him, including soliciting others to levy war against the United States and inducing others to use firearms in violation of federal law. The firearms convictions require mandatory life imprisonment without parole. Al-Timimi became the tenth member of the "Virginia jihad network" to be convicted; two were acquitted.
Now, al-Timimi's lawyer, Edward MacMahon Jr., is demanding a new trial, on the grounds that Assistant U.S. Attorney Gordon Kromberg appealed to religious bigotry against Muslims.”
So has The Islamic terror organizations used legal and cultural judo on America?
There are some who have warned us about those who would have the right phrases and words, but at their base were nothing but wolfs in sheep’s clothing; with a ‘dumb-ed down’ population the fix is in, with a ‘you only go round once’ mentality, fear of God is replaced by a fear of not being able to kill an unwanted pregnancy.
When I was fifteen years old I asked the head of the high school history department why when Poland was invaded and divided by Germany and Russia, did England and France only declare war on Germany? He didn’t know. Since then I have read reasons for that, but I have never been comfortable with the politics of convenience. “Can two walk together unless they agree?”
Thanks for your thoughtful contributions.
I saw a comment in this thread about Share International's Christmas star. On January 22nd, they sent out a new press release saying that the star is already appearing around the world and being reported about in Norwegian newspapers. I saw the release on Market Watch, PRwire and other places. They also updated on Share Interntional website. Does anyone here know how you can read a Norwegian paper? I am not very savvy on the internet and it seems like there is quite a group here. I am starting to get scared of all this! Why would they put out all these new releases?
ReplyDeleteTry again -- I just tried posting a comment to my own spot and google didn't permit me to finish it???
ReplyDeleteAnyway, terrific time Friday night -- thanks to the Grosse Pointe crowd, Benita Rohm and husband Ray Monsanto (fine patent attorneys both). Wonderful meeting Ana from Chicago and Suzette from my area. It was great to see Carole Stevens, Ruth Kade and other old friends again.
Javier Solana evidently had a busy time last week as well -- he seems to be flying under so many radars:
"EU HR Javier SOLANA delivered the keynote speech at the EPP-ED conference on EU-US cooperation after the elections"
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/ueDocs/cms_Data/docs/pressdata/EN/declarations/105689.pdf
Thanks to all for their prayers for my husband Barry. His surgery is at St. John's Hospital Thursday.
Constance
To Constance (10:31 AM):
ReplyDeleteRe: your problems with Google . . .
From the Drudge Report (01/31/09):
Yesterday's banner headline:
Google goes mad; tags rest of Internet 'harmful'
An apparent system error left millions of visitors to the site puzzled when links to all search results were flagged with the warning 'This site may harm your computer'.
It is thought the site had erroneously identified all other websites - and some of its own pages - as containing malicious software or 'malware'.
The glitch, which prevented internet users from directly clicking through to search results, was fixed within 30 minutes although users of Google's email service Gmail have since reported finding genuine messages sent mistakenly to spam folders.
The errors prompted panic among web surfers who at first feared the popular search engine had suffered some kind of major failure that could have had serious implications for internet commerce.
(For the rest of this article, click on www.drudgereport.com)
Please excuse me for making my comment so short when the polite thing appears to be to post very long commentary.
ReplyDeletehttp://truediscernment.wordpress.com/2008/12/19/share-international-reveals-christmas-miracle/
http://tinyurl.com/cnkgq3
This is an excellent analysis of the wording in Creme's messages about Maitreya and the star. Ads and public relations messages are carefully crafted and are not tip of the tongue comments, and so people are led into the New Age.
For those following the Creme saga, here is the January 22 press release referred to by the previous anonymous poster.
ReplyDeletehttp://media.netpr.pl/PressOffice/PressRelease.113082.po?rss=true
http://tinyurl.com/bw9t2h
No comment needed.
ReplyDeletehttp://obamanati.info/2009/01/pocket-obama-compared-to-maos-little-red-book-by-irate-amazon-customers/
http://tinyurl.com/cc52gl
Setterman,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your kind words.
IMHO, the fact that Josef Stalin was referred to as "Uncle Joe" by Roosevelt, Churchill and the Western media speaks volumes.
An offical site regarding the ICE or detention centers contracts. I am not sure if this has been posted before.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.kbr.com/
news/2006/govnews_
060124.aspx
Shoah Education Project Web
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/3vx5hd
http://www.shoaheducation.com/aaaa.html
***********************************
Elizabeth Kirkley Best Phd is the Director of The Shoah Education Project.
I have taken some time and examined, to the best of my ability, the topics
and research presented at this site and find it to be worthy of our consideration.
I have also, though not in as much depth, taken a look at her various blogs, and
"The Church & Shoah In The News"
page at:
http://tinyurl.com/dbjg9x
http://www.shoahrose.com/shoahrosenews.html
************************************************************
My opinion, for what it’s worth, is I’m finding the information highly credible and worthy of further study. I may find I disagree with her research once I’ve spent
additional time comparing her findings with other researchers. If so, I'll restate my recommendation.
So far, Elizabeth Best’s research about Nazism, and its resurgence in what we are observing today,
seems to line up with Constance’s own research, at least suffice it to say, I am not seeing any obvious danger that would prohibit me from recommending the site or Elizabeth Best’s work to the readers here. Any input from Constance or other readers regarding the site and research would be appreciated.
Also, I found interesting, and share the assessment of the author in this article titled, “THE CHURCH & THE NAZIS”
http://tinyurl.com/aw5otx
http://www.shoahrose.com/reichchurchplan.html
**************************
IMHO, it is a fair overview of what “in general” transpired, not giving a pass to any of us who would categorize ourselves as believers. I take the article as a prompting to examine myself as I consider the future and what may be appearing on the horizon. -Rudi
Anon 1:08,
ReplyDeleteNo, brief is always better. It's hard to follow long comments because of the way the print is on these comment pages.
Anon 7:37,
Was there a ballot proposal that had to be voted on before the school district could add a tax on residents? I don't know how Ohio does it, but Michigan has a limit on school districts raising property taxes. Still, if a majority of voters voted for such a tax or milleage, it seems quite democratic. We don't always get our way in a democracy, but try and build a group of voters who oppose such tax measures, put that on a ballot, and vote the tax away. I don't know if Ohio law allows for that. Instead of wishing our country go down the tubes, instead of raising the flag of surrender, do something constructive. Pray and help bring back common sense before it does go down the tubes. Before Ohio becomes like Michigan. In a awful downward spiral. You might not succeed, but at least you did something.
Hope all goes well. God bless.
David in Battle Creek
Hi Rudi,
ReplyDeleteInteresting article. While I might be willing to concede that there were certain apostate members of the Catholic clergy who collaborated with the Nazis, I do NOT believe that this is true of Pope Pius XII. Neither am I inclined to trust any so-called "documentation" that would indicate Pope Pius XII didn't do all that he could to help the Jewish people during World War II.
There are many reasons why I am not inclined to buy the revisionist versions of Pope Pius XII's wartime activities, but I will discuss two of them here.
The first has to do with a man who is a stumbling block to historical revisionists obsessed with the idea of portraying Pope Pius XII as something of a Nazi sympathizer who stood by silently while Jews were being murdered.
The man to whom I am referring was formerly Rabbi Israel Zolli who was the chief Rabbi of Rome during World War II.
After the War, Rabbi Zolli converted to Roman Catholicism and took the name "Eugenio" for his baptismal name in honor of Pope Pius XII and in recognition of all that Pope Pius XII had done to help the Jewish people during the War.
Now make no mistake here. Zolli made it clear that even though he took Pope Pius XII's name at baptism out of gratitude and respect, his actual conversion was NOT out of gratitude to Pope Pius XII, but rather out of true belief.
EUGENIO ZOLLI'S PATH TO ROME
http://tinyurl.com/adxw94
______________________________
ISRAEL ZOLLI
http://tinyurl.com/bbx455
______________________________
THE REAL STORY OF PIUS XII AND THE JEWS
As a matter of simple historical fact, Rabbi Israel Zolli, the Chief Rabbi of Rome, was received into the Catholic Church in 1945 after the war was over. He was baptized entirely of his own free will and asked Pius XII, with whom he had worked closely in the saving of Jewish lives, to be his godfather. Dr. Zolli chose the name Eugenio a his baptismal name precisely because it was Pius XII’s own name.
These facts are rarely mentioned by commentators, yet they are clearly vital to any assessment of the reputation of Pius XII. Instead an insidious campaign has been maintained against the good name of that Pope, largely centering around the accusation that he kept silent during the war about the plight of the Jews and refused to mention them by name. It is now generally implied by some that this was so because he was racist and an anti-Semite. It is difficult to conceive of a more detestable lie.......
.....It is easy to forget that there was only so much that the Pope could do. He had no Army or police beyond the Swiss Guard and he was not listened to by the Allied powers. Under constant surveillance and threats from the Nazis when they occupied Rome, his statements were seized and destroyed by the Gestapo. As for his influence with loyal Roman Catholics, he had already spelt out precisely and forthrightly what his views and those of the Church were in the two above-mentioned encyclicals and in constant re-affirmations of his position in the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatoire. No loyal Roman Catholic need have been in any doubt at the time what the Catholic Church’s views on Nazism and racism were. The fact that some bad Catholics allowed themselves to become involved with the Nazi terror cannot be blamed on Pope Pius XII—any more than the fact that there were Jewish Kapos and a Jewish police helping the Nazis enforce their extermination policies can be blamed upon Jewish religious leaders. Pius XII plainly repudiated the perverted doctrines of the Nazis and also the immoral Fascist doctrines of Benito Mussolini (which had been condemned in the encyclical Non Abbiamo Bisogno meaning "we have no need" i.e. of Fascist doctrines)......
.....He is also sometimes criticized for not excommunicating Hitler, but Hitler was already excommunicated ipso facto for a whole range of crimes and could only have returned to the Catholic faith, even assuming that he would ever have wanted to, by having his excommunication lifted by the Pope himself. The lifting of the sentence was reserved to the Holy See, latae sententiae. Besides, the complaint assumes that Hitler took some notice of the Holy See and the Catholic Church. Insofar as he did, it was for purely political reasons, since he was forced to recognize the influence of the Catholic Church and the papacy. Hitler described himself as "a complete pagan" (see Hitler’s Table Talk) and regarded the Catholic Church as his greatest enemy, which he would destroy when he had the opportunity... ...read entire article...
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius.php?id=20
________________________________
The second reason I will discuss here has to do with one Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty who came to be known as "the Pimpernel of the Vatican."
MONSIGNOR HUGH O'FLAHERTY
...In 1960, he suffered a serious stroke during Mass and was forced to return to Ireland. He moved to Cahirciveen to live with his sister, Mrs. Bride Sheehan. Hugh O'Flaherty died 30 October, 1963, aged 65, at his sister's home. He was buried in the cemetery of the Daniel O'Connell Memorial Church in Cahirciveen.
There is a grove of Hugh O'Flaherty Trees in the Killarney National Park. O'Flaherty was termed one of the "Righteous Among the Nations". In 2003, the Israeli government planted a tree in his honour in Yad Vashem, Jerusalem.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_O'Flaherty
Note: My own great grandparents hailed from Cahirciveen and some of their relatives were high-ranking members of Daniel O'Connell's Catholic Association.
We Irish Catholics know something about persecution given the fact that at one time in "Penal Ireland," the penalty for practicing, preaching or teaching the Catholic faith was death!
_______________________________
MONSIGNOR HUGH O'FLAHERTY: HERO OF THE VATICAN
http://www.geocities.com/msgr_hughoflaherty/
_________________________________
SCARLET PIMPERNEL OF THE VATICAN
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/scarlet.html
_______________________________
In 1983, a movie was made for TV about Msgr. Hugh O'Flaherty and entitled THE SCARLET AND THE BLACK. It starred Gregory Peck and Christopher Plumber.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_and_the_Black
______________________________
Finally, for anyone interested, here is a page from the site hosted by the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights containing articles about the activities of Pope Pius XII during World War II.
POPE PIUS XII AND THE HOLOCAUST
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius.php
GH -
ReplyDeleteDid you post your new entry yet? I went on your site just now, and I am not seeing it...
Mary
Hi Susanna,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your feedback.
I read nothing in the article even remotely trying to "indicate Pope Pius XII didn't do all that he could to help the Jewish people during World War II."
To the contrary, at the bottom of the page where the article was found are additional links & resources.
The first listed "helpful links" should serve as a follow-up.
http://www.shoahrose.com/links.html
An extensive list includes under "Nazi Plans for the Church"
'The Holy See vs The 3rd Reich: Rychlak' which has an article by Ronald J. Rychlak:
"Why Pope Pius XII Was Right"
I don't view the original article,
"THE CHURCH & THE NAZIS"
as an attempt to revise or shift the blame to any particular group or individual. There are more than enough "if- only's", "would-haves",
"should-haves" and "could-haves" to
spread around. No one who honestly did all they could to stop the genocide and protect the persecuted need ever be ashamed. -Rudi
JS stresses the importance of strategic partnership with China at meeting with PM Jiabao-
ReplyDeleteyou can read all about it at his website
Susanna -
ReplyDeleteGreat work on your 5:50 PM post!!!
Just in case you believe that everything is reported these days,
ReplyDeletehttp://theanchoressonline.com/2009/01/31/kentucky-no-power-no-fema/\\
No dear people, you don't have a clue as to what is happening in the country.
Rudi,
ReplyDeleteThanks for that site on the Shoah. There's some very good information on there. This timeline says a lot:
http://tinyurl.com/bpc8nl
Susanna,
As for the involvement of the Pope, a friend of mine born in Germany whose father hunted Nazis after the war and was very knowledgeable about the history thought that Pius XII was guilty of not doing what he could, .but I want to say, so was the US for that matter.. We were fighting a war against Hitler and Prescott Bush was doing business with the Nazi regime. Both the Catholic Church and the US Govt helped Nazis to escape to South America...The US government later hired Nazi scientists to work for NASA and the CIA...Now, lots of brave men fought and lost their lives in WWII, and I had some in my family that did, so I'm not blaming the poor soldiers.
Now I think a key to this whole controversy would be the Vatican opening its archives. If they have nothing to hide, they should be able to prove it.
http://tinyurl.com/dferp6
The real righteous from the nations risked their lives to help the Jews, like Bonhoeffer.
By ripping the hebraic roots from the Bible many centuries ago, the institutional church created an environment where it is easy to be anti-semitic. The Jews are the natural branches of the tree that God calls Israel...Wild branches are grafted into this tree, but I want to suggest that the wild branches tried to turn the tree from an olive tree to an orange tree...What I mean by this is when we don't understand the roots of our faith, when we don't understand God's eternal plan for Israel it is quite easy to be anti-semitic.
When we do understand that by election God chose Israel, and while for a little while all Israel does not know their Messiah, there will come a time when eyes will be opened...this will be the resurrection, as Paul said "life from the dead".
You see if the unnatural branches recognize Yeshua right now as Messiah and Lord..when the natural branches "get it" it will be life from the dead...but if the olive tree looks like an orange tree, and if the orange tree tries to replace the olive tree instead of attaching its branches to the olive tree so as to produce olives not oranges, the olive tree won't recognize the orange tree as its own.
It is the nations that are "grafted in" to the olive tree, not the reverse.. One of the biggest tragedies in the history of the church is that they didn't understand this. Thankfully, today many believers are realizing this error and coming back to the hebrew roots of their faith. In so doing, they are partaking along with the natural branches...
I want to suggest to you that this is the meaning of true shalom.. Shalom, wholeness is when we can see ourselves as part of the same assembly that God called out from the beginning. God is restoring Israel.
Either we are part of the olive tree, or we will produce oranges or apples or some other fruit that God did not ask us to produce..
When we look back at the history of the Roman Church from way, way back we can see what happened, in spite of the fact that Paul's warning is very clear.
Rom. 11:15 -18 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that ait is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Here are some future prophecies of what God will do with Israel:
Is. 27:6 1In the days to come Jacob will take root,
Israel will blossom and sprout,
And they will fill the whole world with fruit.
You can be sure that Jacob will not produce oranges but olives..
They will be coming from all the places they were scattered and worship on His mountain in Jerusalem:
Is. 27:12-13 In that day the LORD will start His threshing from the flowing stream of the Euphrates to the brook of Egypt, and you will be gathered up one by one, O sons of Israel. It will come about also in that day that a great trumpet will be blown, and those who were perishing in the land of Assyria and who were scattered in the land of Egypt will come and worship the LORD in the holy mountain at Jerusalem.
When you see the expression "in that day" it is a an end time expression:
Is. 11:10-13 Then in that day
The nations will resort to the root of Jesse,
Who will stand as a signal for the peoples;
And His resting place will be glorious. Then it will happen on that day that the Lord
Will again recover the second time with His hand
The remnant of His people, who will remain,
From Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath,
And from the islands of the sea.
And He will lift up a standard for the nations
And assemble the banished ones of Israel,
And will gather the dispersed of Judah
From the four corners of the earth. Then the jealousy of Ephraim will depart,
And those who harass Judah will be cut off;
Ephraim will not be jealous of Judah,
And Judah will not harass Ephraim.
If we don't understand these prophetic passages, we will not see God's plan for the restoration of All Israel and we will attach ourselves to an orange tree instead of an olive tree. It's very hard to see this when you've been told to cultivate oranges your whole life, but Scripture is black and white.
Boy are there going to be some surprises when people realize Israel is a lot bigger than the 15 million or so Jews we know about today. God is going to shake ALL Israel out of the nations..
Anti-semitism could not have developed in an environment where people understood these truths..
I want to suggest to all of us today, it will be very important to understand the prophetic restoration of all Israel or we risk to attach ourselves to the "wrong tree" in the days ahead. If we don't understand who our spiritual forbearers are, we will not understand what the nature of the "ekklesia" that God is building.
It is good to learn our lessons from history and understand what went wrong in Germany and in Europe so we can avoid repeating these mistakes.
Today, I believe there is something parallel going on, and this is manifesting in part of the Church's attempt to so deeply identify with Islam, and Muslims, that they are forgetting who they really are. Sadly, I think many Christians will turn their backs on Israel in the days ahead. They will not understand God's plan to restore All Israel..
Ironically, God has the same plan of deliverance for the Arab nations as He does for everyone else. It's not that He doesn't care about them:
Is. 19:20 It will become a sign and a witness to the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt; for they will cry to the LORD because of oppressors, and He will send them a Savior and a Champion, and He will deliver them.
There is a day of shalom coming, but it will not be the kind that the politicians are trying to design.. it will be true and lasting shalom:
Is. 19:24-25 In that day Israel will be the third party with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing in the midst of the earth, whom the LORD of hosts has blessed, saying, “Blessed is aEgypt My people, and Assyria bthe work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance.”
God's plans have not changed, not in almost 6000 years.. He knows the ends from the beginning..but do we see what He's doing?
The nations will go up to Jerusalem together and celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles ( Sukkot) because the Lord is the same Lord who gave these instructions to Moses and said they are eternal.
Zech. 14:16 ¶ Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will ago up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. ( Sukkot)
Today, thousands of people from the nations are already doing this.. They are going to Israel for the feast of Tabernacles or Sukkot.. others have rediscovered the Biblical Sabbath, and are attaching themselves to the Olive tree..in anticipation of the restoration of all things.
Joyce
YG,
ReplyDeletesaturday night I went to this page of yours
http://tinyurl.com/buehxs
but since yesterday it is gone !
Did you remove it ?
God bless you.
Frences
The excellent post by Susannah to Rudi puts the finer point on the activities of Pius XII who directed clerics and religious to secretly hide Jews from the Gestapo in Rome.
ReplyDeleteJoyce-Your comment that the US aggressively brought German rocket scientists to this country after the collapse of the Third Reich is correct. These scientists might well have been tried for war crimes but were not. However, comparing the actions of Pius XII to the creators of rockets designed to kill civilians is an unspeakably horrifying comparison. The standard of doing "all you could do" is immeasurable and unjust, yet you hold Pius XII to this standard. What about other religious leaders? Perhaps other nations? What about the American hero Lindberg? Surely Neville Chamberlin? Why not others? If you judge fairly, maybe Jews in America as well "could have done more."
Regarding what Pope Pius did
ReplyDeleteduring WWII:
What is anyone doing RIGHT NOW
about Darfur ?
What did anyone do about Rwanda?
It's genocide isn't it ?
Revisionist history usually has
an agenda that's not hard to
figure out when you ask yourself
who is doing the revising.
BTW, Roosevelt was a top eschelon
Freemason, like the Bushes and Clinton
and Cheney, and Putin.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteIt's not my judgement.. It's someone's who is intimately more familiar with the situation than I am.. I'm simply telling you what this friend whose father hunted Nazis, and has invested a lot of time studying the Shoah said.. The Jewish historians at Yad Vashem believe this too or his picture wouldn't be hanging up at Yad Vashem with a negative comment on it.
If the Vatican would open up their archives, the proper research could be done. If the Vatican has nothing to hide, why not just open then and let the historians have a look so the discussion can be put to rest.
The impression I have of this current Vatican is that they are doing their maximum to sever any and all relations with the Jews based on their plan to canonize him and this recent move to reinstate the shoah-denying priest. These kinds of moves by a very intelligent man as the pope is can hardly been seen as wanting to help relations..
If you looked at the link that I took off of the site Rudi sent, you can see there is a very long history there between the Catholic Church and the Jews which is more negative than positive...so there might be some reason on Jew's part to assume the worst. If the pope really cares about the relations, then he could open the archives to at least build a case for why Pope Pius XII was innocent of all the accusations against him.
You have to admit there is at least 1700+ years or more worth of reasons for Jews to be suspicious of the Catholic Church..I think the onus is on the Catholic Church to prove otherwise...not the Jews who survived and bore witness to what went on.
Joyce
Searching for a New World Order: Munich Security Conference (Speigel OnLine, Jan. 30, 2009)
ReplyDeleteConference is to be held Friday, Feb. 6, with world leaders such as Merkel, Sarkozy, Biden, Karzai. No Russian delegate has yet been named. Other American delegates include James Jones, Petraeus, McCain, Kerry, Lieberman.
“The name "security conference" actually no longer reflects the nature of the event. It comes from the old days of the Cold War, when experts gathered here to enthusiastically discuss first and second strike capability, intercontinental missiles with multiple warheads and the benefits of cruise missiles. At the time, Munich was a synonym for a small closed circle of strategic defense experts. Today Munich is host to a rather large political meeting, whose scope is continually expanding.
"Among other things, it addresses of course the issue of disarmament. This year, the question "Is Zero Possible?" is being asked -- in other words, is it possible to have a world without nuclear weapons? Because many things are in flux, disarmament, unlike during the Cold War, is not being left just to the experts. In the near future, Obama must decide whether to once again sign up to the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, from which his predecessor Bush, in a snub against the Russians, unilaterally withdrew. He also needs to make clear his position on the planned missile shield system in the Czech Republic and Poland -- an issue which will shape America's relations with Russia.”
The article also explains that in addition to “operational discussions” in which delegates have formal meetings, there are also “exploratory talks” on the side lines. It is expected that this is how Obama may open talks with Tehran via its delegate, “Ali Larijani, a former top nuclear negotiator who has now been slightly demoted to parliament speaker.”
On Saturday, Biden will meet with Merkel and Sarkozy, (a highlight of the conference). Incidentally, “Biden's remarks will have been written down for him by Jones -- just to be on the safe side.”
How strange it is that this Joyce who is doing nothing to fight the growing New Age movement feels it necessary to distort the history of the Catholic church during World War II, saying it didn't do enough!
ReplyDeleteHow strange it is that one who would see the demise of Judaism in favor of some conglomeration of religions is concerned about the Jews lost to the Holocaust!
It appears that some must find endless causes in order to feel self-righteous. Those with limited knowledge of what went on should let sleeping dogs lie.
Here's some more information on the history of the Shoah and Pope Pius XII:
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/2zpsbj
If Yad Vashem was unwilling to acknowledge the "righteous among the nations" it would be a different story, but Yad Vashem has dedicated considerable resources to acknowledging the righteous gentiles, so I don't think this is a case of just being against the pope because he's Catholic.
http://tinyurl.com/6pv3mh
and it's not because they are unwilling to recognize Catholics who helped:
http://tinyurl.com/bdhzw9
So the issue is that historians are very divided and the Vatican has information that could shed light on the subject:
http://tinyurl.com/d555lj
Until they are willing to do that, they are free to do what they want but canonizing him is a bit like throwing salt in the wounds..Just my personal opinion. Since I don't accept or believe in the whole process of canonization anyway, it really doesn't matter except in a symbolic sense..
God knows what he is .
Joyce
I can't get over the Davos meeting.
ReplyDeleteConference? Summit? Convention?
Did I see the President of Turkey get
up and say he wouldn't be back ?
Can Shimon Perez speak ?
and in English yet.
Ay Carumba the times we live in !
It's like birth pangs all right.
Has there ever been kings debating
each other in a forum which can be
seen live across the entire globe ?
I thought Perez was going to take
a swing at someone.
Now that's a reality show.
Maryanne, YG, has been missing recently. She has pulled her last blog post. I hope she is alright? She has been under lots of stress lately. Lets keep her in our prayers.
ReplyDeleteHi Rudi,
ReplyDeleteRe: your comment
I read nothing in the article even remotely trying to "indicate Pope Pius XII didn't do all that he could to help the Jewish people during World War II."
To the contrary, at the bottom of the page where the article was found are additional links & resources.
The first listed "helpful links" should serve as a follow-up.
I'm sorry, Rudi. I should have made myself clearer.
It was not my intention to claim that the article you posted indicated that Pope Pius XII didn't do all that he could to save Jewish people during World War II.
It WAS partly my intention to echo your comment by acknowledging that not all members of the Catholic Church - including certain members of the clergy - were "without sin" in terms of doing what they could to help the Jewish community during the Holocaust.......even if "all they could do" simply involved debunking the lies of the Nazi regime.
This is your comment I am referring to (emphasis mine):
IMHO, it is a fair overview of what “in general” transpired, not giving a pass to any of us who would categorize ourselves as believers. I take the article as a prompting to examine myself as I consider the future and what may be appearing on the horizon. -Rudi
Thank you for all the information you share.
To Anonymous (10:08 AM):
ReplyDeleteAMEN AMEN AMEN!!!
Dorothy,
ReplyDeleteBy the way, it's good to see you back on the blog...
Praying for you,
Joyce
p.s. some of us fight the New Age with the sword of the spirit, the Word of God...
The Jewish people are not the only people who have been victims of genocide.
ReplyDeleteAlso, maybe every political leader, who was in power during World War II, should have been held responsible for not doing enough to stop it.
Now, it's time to move on.
Joyce said:
ReplyDelete"p.s. some of us fight the New Age with the sword of the spirit, the Word of God..."
What's the point of fighting the new age without the word? It's pointless. According to scripture there are only 2 camps. There's no middle ground. The camp of God and of satan. Those who refuse the new age but also refuse to accept Jesus as Savior are still in the territory of the enemy.
Silvia
Paul,
ReplyDeleteSo much for the Alliance of Civilizations. I guess Edrogen only wants to have an alliance if it doesn't include Israel..
1Th. 5:3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then 1bdestruction 2will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
Joyce
MIT BRENNENDER SORGE
ReplyDelete(With Burning Concern)
Mit brennender Sorge (German for "With burning concern") is a Roman Catholic Church encyclical of Pope Pius XI, published on March 10, 1937 (but bearing a date of Passion Sunday, March 14). The encyclical criticized Nazism, listed breaches of an agreement signed with the Church and condemned antisemitism. Drafted by the future Pope Pius XII, who was in Munich at the time of Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch[1], it warned Catholics that the growing Nazi ideology, which exalted one race over all others, was incompatible with Christianity. Pius XI himself in more explicit terms had elsewhere condemned anti-semitism.[2]
The encyclical was written in German and not the usual Latin of official Roman Catholic Church documents. It was addressed to German bishops and was read in all parish churches of Germany. Pope Pius XI credited its creation and writing to the Cardinal Secretary of State, Eugenio Cardinal Pacelli, who later became Pope Pius XII. There was no pre-announcement of the encyclical, and its distribution was kept secret in an attempt to ensure the unhindered public reading of its contents in all the Catholic Churches of Germany.
This encyclical condemned particularly the paganism of the national-socialism ideology, the myth of race and blood, and the fallacy of their conception of God. ....read entire article...
___________________________
MIT BRENNENDER SORGE
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI
ON THE CHURCH AND THE GERMAN REICH
TO THE VENERABLE BRETHREN
THE ARCHBISHOPS AND BISHOPS OF GERMANY AND OTHER ORDINARIES
IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE.
http://tinyurl.com/cr0f
_________________________________
When Pope Pius XII died on October 9, 1958, Golda Meir, then Israeli delegate to the United Nations, sent official condolences: "When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the pope was raised for the victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out on the great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace."
Dr. Raphael Cantoni, a leader in Italy's Jewish Assistance Committee added, "The Church and the papacy have saved Jews as much and insofar as they could Christians. Six million of my co-religionists have been murdered by the Nazis... but there would have been many more victims had it not been for the efficacious intervention of Pius XII."
With all of the talk of Oscar Schindler and "Schindler's List," someone ought to make a movie about Pius XII and his courageous efforts.
Given at the Vatican on Passion Sunday, March 14, 1937.
PIUS XI
_______________________________
Golda Meir and Pope Pius XII
When Pope Pius XII died on October 9, 1958, Golda Meir, then Israeli delegate to the United Nations, sent official condolences: "When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the pope was raised for the victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out on the great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace."
Dr. Raphael Cantoni, a leader in Italy's Jewish Assistance Committee added, "The Church and the papacy have saved Jews as much and insofar as they could Christians. Six million of my co-religionists have been murdered by the Nazis... but there would have been many more victims had it not been for the efficacious intervention of Pius XII."
With all of the talk of Oscar Schindler and "Schindler's List," someone ought to make a movie about Pius XII and his courageous efforts.
Silvia,
ReplyDeleteExactly..Satan doesn't care which deception he holds people captive in, makes no difference to him...
Joyce
I do respect Constance's work but i miss a clear answer in her work to the new age which there is; God, Jesus and scripture. I'm afraid the people who want to refuse the new age are sucked in eventually because of the great occult signs and wonders that are coming and people have no protection against it without the renewal.
ReplyDeleteSilvia
Joyce,
ReplyDeleteRe: your comment
If you looked at the link that I took off of the site Rudi sent, you can see there is a very long history there between the Catholic Church and the Jews which is more negative than positive...so there might be some reason on Jew's part to assume the worst.
If you knew your history as well as you claim to know it, you would know that throughout her history, the Catholic Church often protected the Jewish people from the secular powers.
Also, for your information, one of the laws enacted by Constantine prohibited the Jewish community from stoning fellow Jews to death for converting to Christianity......indicating that they felt justified in treating their "heretics" and "apostates" every bit as severely as Christians were accused (often falsely) of treating theirs.
When people were burned at the stake, it was usually at the hands of the secular authorities and not always with the approval of the Church.
As for stripping Christianity of "all things Jewish," for all intents and purposes, the Rabbinical school at Jamnia did that around 90 A.D. at what has come to be referred to as the "Council of Jamnia!"
Now we have to back up a bit: around A.D. 90-100, after the Temple fell, a rabbinical school was formed by Johanan ben Zakkai. The "Council of Jamnia" (also called "Jabneh" or "Javneh") is the name given to the decisions made by this pharisaic school. I repeat: the gathering at Jamnia was a Jewish, not a Christian, "council" consisting of Pharisees some 40 years after the Resurrection of our Lord. At that time, Jews were being scattered, and the very existence of Jewry per the Pharisees' vision of "Jewry" was being threatened. At this time, too, Christianity was growing and threatening that same Jewish identity, resulting in severe persecution of Christians by Jews. In reaction to these things and to the fact that "Nazarenes" (i.e., "Christians", who at that time were overwhelmingly Hebrew) used the Septuagint to proselytize other Jews, Zakkai convened the Jamnian school with the goals of safeguarding Hillel's Oral Law, deciding the Jewish canon (which had theretofore been, and possibly even afterward remained 5, an open canon!), and preventing the disappearance of Jewry into the Diaspora of the Christian and Roman worlds. So, circling their wagons, they threw out the Septuagint that they had endorsed for almost 400 years. Note that at the time of Christ, most Jews spoke Aramaic, Latin (the official language of the area), and/or Greek (the lingua franca at that time), not Hebrew, which was a sacred language used by priests for the Hebrew liturgy. In any case, a new Greek translation was created by Aquila -- but one without the ancient Septuagint's language that proved more difficult for the Jews to defend against when being evangelized by the Christians, the point being that any idea that a book "had" to have been written in Hebrew to be "Biblical" wasn't the issue.
Moving the story along: in other words, the Protestant "Reformers" decided against the canon held dear by the Apostles in favor of a canon determined by Pharisees some 40 years after Jesus rose from the dead -- the same Pharisees who denied the Truths of the entire New Testament, even accusing the "Nazarenes" of stealing Jesus' body from the tomb and lying to the world! (Interestingly, it was Zakkai's successor, Gamaliel, who forced the "Nazarenes" out of the synagogues. Gamaliel also made it obligatory for Jews to pray the "Prayer of Eighteen Petitions," the 12th petition, which is still prayed today, known as the birkat, being "For apostates may there be no hope, and may the Nazarenes and heretics suddenly perish.")
And do you know why the Book of Maccabees was thrown out by the Jewish Council? Because the Council was conducted under the auspices of the Flavian Roman Emperors and they decided that that particuar book, which tells of the Maccabean Revolt, might be inflammatory and incite rebellion by the Jews. So, all those Protestant Bibles are lacking the Book of Maccabees, which speaks clearly of praying for the dead, because a pagan emperor pressured the Pharisees, around 40 years after the Resurrection of Christ, to exclude it. And lest anyone is still tempted to think that it was the "Roman Church" that came up with these books and that they were not written by pre-Christ Jews (an assertion I've actually read at "Messianic" websites), Jews in other parts of the world who didn't get news of the Council of Jamnia's decisions still use those "extra" 7 books to this very day (research the canon used by Ethiopian Jewry
http://www.fisheaters.com/septuagint.html
See also:
COUNCIL OF JAMNIA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Jamnia
__________________________________
JAMNIA or "JABNEH" ( from the Jewish Encyclopedia)
Jabneh became the seat of Jewish scholarship even before the destruction of the Temple; for Johanan b. Zakkai, while predicting to Vespasian that he would become emperor of Rome, asked him as a special favor to spare Jabneh and its scholars (Giṭ. 66a). After the destruction of Jerusalem the Great Sanhedrin removed to Jabneh, where it was presided over by Johanan b. Zakkai (R. H. 31a). The Sanhedrin held its sittings in a "vineyard," which term, however, is explained as figurative (Eduy. ii. 4; Yer. Ber. iv. 1): "the Sanhedrin sat in rows similar to vines in a vineyard." Jabneh took the place of Jerusalem; it became the religious and national center of the Jews; and the most important functions of the Sanhedrin, such as determining the time of the new moon and of the festivals, were observed there. It even enjoyed some of the privileges of the Holy City, among others the right to blow the shofar when New-Year's Day fell on a Sabbath (R. H. iv. 1 [29b]). In the time of Gamaliel II. the Sanhedrin removed to Usha, but it met again in Jabneh from the time of Simeon b. Gamaliel to that of Bar Kokba (R. H. 31b).
http://tinyurl.com/b9rfoe
A discussion with a Christian missionary.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.israelnationalnews.com/Forum/Forum.aspx/t375
P.S. I have a World War II witness in my family too. My father. He was a veteran of World War II stationed in Italy. He was a member of the famous 88th Infantry Division of the United States Army. Originally nicknamed the "Blue Angels," it was soon dubbed "the Blue Devils" by "Axis Sally" ( the European equivalent of "Tokyo Rose" and later "Hannoi Hannah" ) because of the bad time they gave the Nazis in Italy.
ReplyDeleteI think I can safely trust what my FATHER has told me about the War, how utterly evil the Nazis were and about Pope Pius XII.
http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/
ReplyDeleteSorry if this has already been posted. Although Obama does not seem to be the antiChrist to some, at least a few folks consider him to be the messiah.
Suzette
"Exactly..Satan doesn't care which deception he holds people captive in, makes no difference to him..."
ReplyDeleteSad but true, Joyce.
Silvia
It took 3 tries to post that last comment.
ReplyDeleteI should add that there is exceptional and revealing artwork on that site and check out the visitors map, eery.
Suzette
To Mary and Frences,
ReplyDeleteRE MY BLOG POST:
No worries. Just wanted you both to know that my post wasn't yanked either supernaturally or by google. I had to go back and do some major edits to it, as I wrote it far too quickly the other day.
Paul, thanks so much for pointing out one of the errors.
http://www.the-obama-nation.blogspot.com/
YG
ReplyDeleteLast night we managed to upload some new pages, I have included a link to your blog. If at any time this is disagreeable to you, just let me know.
I tried to post this additional comment on the Obamamessiah blogspot but it didn't post
What is the significance of the posts dated 2012?
Suzette
Constance,
ReplyDeleteDid you see the Detroit Freepress ad from January 21, 2009
See Obama in yourself?
http://www.freep.com/article/
20090121/OBAMAINAUGURATION
10/90121013/?imw=Y
I don't get the FP but this is featured on the Obamamessiah blogspot page as well
Suzette
THIS IS VERY DISTURBING . . .
ReplyDeleteFrom: http://www.infowars.com/church-organization-refuses-to-divulge-if-pastors-are-on-fema-payroll/
Church Organization Refuses To Divulge If Pastors Are On FEMA Payroll (Monday, February 2, 2009)
A large church organization has refused to divulge how many of its pastors are on the FEMA payroll, after a member expressed concerns about religious leaders being used to condition their congregation to accept the declaration of martial law.
In a May 2006 story we first broke the shocking news that FEMA was training pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to “obey the government” in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation.
Despite debunkers and urban myth websites claiming the story was a hoax, it was confirmed in triplicate by mainstream news outlets over a year later.
A KSLA news report confirmed that Clergy Response Teams are being trained by the federal government to “quell dissent” and pacify citizens to obey the government in the event of a declaration of martial law.
Concerned about such developments, a member of the California-based Worldwide Church of God, an organization that boasts 64,000 members in 860 congregations in about 90 countries, asked if any of the church’s pastors were involved in the FEMA program.
“The head office quickly replied hastily within an hour by telling me, “Sorry, that is privileged information”, the man states. “The reply was in big bold script like I’ve never seen before in emails. I was also a bit put off by the word “privileged.”
“I responded to the stated email and reworded my request slightly by demanding, “Are there ANY of our pastors on the payroll of FEMA, YES or NO.” Their first response came after about an hour. But, it has been almost 24 hours and I am still waiting for my church’s second response to my second request,” he adds.
It seems that church groups are reticent to let slip any information concerning the issue of pastors being trained to help manage a state of martial law following the controversy stirred up by the exposure of the program in 2006.
Indeed, the pastors that took a risk by first divulging the information to us were later threatened by Homeland Security and told to keep their mouths shut.
With new legislation in Congress pending that will mandate the set-up of a network of FEMA camp facilities to be used to house U.S. citizens in the event of a national emergency, along with the announcement that tens of thousands of active military personnel are to be placed inside the United States under Northcom, partly for purposes of dealing with “civil unrest” and “crowd control”, fears about a state of martial law being prepared are no longer the fantasies of paranoid conspiracy theorists, but an all too real possibility as we move towards the end of the first decade of the 21st century.
Also, check this out . . .
ReplyDeleteURL to article: http://www.infowars.com/obama-trilateral-commission-endgame/
http://www.truthnet.org/Bible-Origins/6_The_Apocrypha_The_Septugint/index.htm
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/22/193437/867
ReplyDeletemore on Clergy Response Teams
Anon 1:50pm
ReplyDeleteExcellant post on clergy response teams.
There was information presented on Radio Liberty about church's that accept tax exempt status as well, that they have parameters set by the fed gov, or if they don't now they will in the near future.
We all need to realize that any organized, formal, (especially if the government approves of or recognizes it), group or institution is most likely compromised in some way.
Jesus is our only hope. Anyone who trusts in their "church", whichever one it may be, for absolute truth or protection and spiritual growth is perilously naive.
The Bible says God's people are CALLED OUT.
The scripture, "and the truth shall set you free" means more than most are willing to consider.
Suzette
Young Grashopper,
ReplyDeleteI could have been an editor.
I could have been a contender.
Instead I'm just a stupid Tree Service guy,
( sitting on his thumbs all winter ),
and a "mister mom".
I think I'm glad though.
I think I like this better.
I like your new site.
Joyce,
Reregarding my last comment
about Davos, the video that I saw
with my own two eyes has apparently
been removed, and only the very
tail end of it is still available, where
the Turkish Prime Minister gets
really angry at Perez and calls him
a murderer and leaves, essentially.
I had seen most of the debate between
the Palestinian Representative, Perez,
Erdogen, and Ban Ki Moon sitting in
the middle trying to mediate, or at least
listen.
The Palestintinian Rep,
( can't remember his name ), went way
overtime with his condemnation of
Israel, which the moderator tried to
stop but couldn't, and then Perez had
his turn and tore into the Turkish PM
for a while before he turned to the
Palestinian and lambasted him for
harboring Hamas, essentially.
Perez got furious, and I for one
couldn't blame him. He kept saying
"what would you do?" referring to the
thousands of rockets which have been
raining into Israel over the past year(s).
He challenged the Turkish PM and the
Palestinian and seemed to be challenging
the whole rest of the world , which is
as usual, mad at Israel.
I saw a good 25 minutes of this debate.
Perez spoke in English. The part at the
very end was translated very clearly
but the new sanitized version that I
was able to find didn't even have a
translation.
Where did the original go ?
I don't know if any one has seen this yet. It is called the Institue for Human Continuity. They are holding a "lottery" to see whom they may select for survival passed the 2012 date. It seems these new agers know their time of judgement soon approaches. This site would be frightening for one who is just stumbling into this.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.instituteforhumancontinuity.org/#/lottery
Susanna,
ReplyDeleteHere's your comment about me knowing my history:
"If you knew your history as well as you claim to know it, you would know that throughout her history, the Catholic Church often protected the Jewish people from the secular powers."
Well that would exclude the Inquistion.. I have some books I can start quoting from if you like...but I'll spare you.
Are you denying the quotes from the Council of Nicea, when Constantine changed Passover dates because he didn't want to have any association with the Jews.
There are better sources than Wikipedia for info about the Council of Jamnia.. Anchor Bible Dictionary says a lot but I'll put just a small quote:
"C. Jamnia Gatherings
In the absence of any contemporary documents on the Yavneh (Jamnia) period, an account of actions of Yavneh must be drawn from sources redacted at a later period without any objective way to know how much the information has been distorted in the process of transmission. Legend was developing, and one is never certain what is legend and what is fact. The extant materials do not permit writing biographies of any of the participants of the gatherings. The sources are at variance on details with each other. The nature of the sources makes it impossible to be specific about the nature of the Yavneh gatherings as well as specific about their enactments, especially in the 3 areas discussed above—canon, text, and the exclusion of Christians."
and this:
"These ongoing debates suggest the paucity of evidence on which the hypothesis of the Council of Jamnia rests and raise the question whether it has not served its usefulness and should be relegated to the limbo of unestablished hypotheses. It should not be allowed to be considered a consensus established by mere repetition of assertion."
As for your father's observations, I'm not going to comment. I'm talking about someone who was privy to high-level information concerning the tracking down of Nazis...which would suggest he know a lot.
Joyce
John Ziegler was a guest on "The View" this morning. It's a shame "the ladies" didn't allow him to get a word in, because he has a very interesting web site that everyone should check out:
ReplyDeletewww.howobamagotelected.com
meant to say "knew a lot"..
ReplyDeletePaul,
funny that the long version is gone. I started to watch it and had to go, so I guess now I won't get to see the unedited version...too bad..Yes, I can imagine why they took it off..Iran gave him the "Nobel Peace Prize".. ha! I wonder what the European nations who were thinking about having Turkey come into the EU thought of his performance. Hope they took a second look.
Joyce
JD 3:11pm
ReplyDeleteOH MY! Wow. Like deep impact. Truth is stranger than fiction. I wonder what one would have to accept to be selected? Could this be promoted as a way to further enslave people? If they hype up this 2012 thing enough, people will be ready to accept any terms. Add in that others will have to be eliminated or at least left scrapping for themselves and we could have a real issue.
Joyce,
Hi. Hope you're doing well.
Suzette
http://philanthropy.com/news/government/index.php?id=6453
ReplyDeleteDecember 03, 2008
Ford Foundation Links Parents of Obama and Treasury Secretary Nominee
In an unusual twist of fate, the parents of Barack Obama and his pick for secretary of Treasury, Timothy Geithner, share a nonprofit connection: they worked at the Ford Foundation at the same time.
Indeed, Mr. Geithner’s father was head of the philanthropy’s Asia grant making for a period in the early 1980s and oversaw the work of Mr. Obama’s mother, who developed the organization’s microfinance programs in Indonesia.
According to the foundation, they met at least once in Jakarta.
I don't know if anyone has discussed the possible connection between Obama and "the king of the south".
ReplyDeleteIf he is the coming king of the south, does that mean that
Daniel 11:40–43, would be indicating a war between the US and Russia?
another thing to consider...
People are for the most part in agreement that the king of the North is associated with moscow.
Moscow: Longitude 36° E
Jerusalem : Longitude: 35° E
Nairobi,Kenya: Longitude 36° E
nick
Top story on www.worldnetdaily.com today (02/02/09):
ReplyDelete"Bill creates detention camps in U.S. for 'emergencies'"
--WND--
Joyce,
ReplyDeleteAnti-Catholics who don't know history - especially Catholic history - not only just LOVE to use that big bad "I" word (INQUISITION) but also - whether through ignorance or malice - tend to confuse the Spanish inquisition with the Roman Inquisition and consequently make it seem as if the Inquisition was established for no other reason than to persecute the Jewish people.
Often running afoul of the Holy See in Rome, the Spanish Inquisition became more a civil tribunal than an ecclesiastical one, and all too often served as a tool of King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella.
This was precisely the reason why popes always admitted appeals from the Spanish Inquisition to the Holy See, took over entire trials at any stage of the proceedings, exempted whole classes of believers from its jurisdiction, intervened in the legislation,and deposed grand inquisitors.
The Pope was initially responsible for approving the Spanish Inquisition. However, the Inquisition was run via the Monarchy of Spain. At the time the Muslims were theatening to overun Christendom. Fears were high. The Spanish monarchy would forcibly convert Jewish people to Christianity and then torture and execute them for not believing in Christ. The Papal authority to perform an inquisition can only be applied to Christians. This is why the Monarchy had to convert the Jew first. The Pope found out that this was happening and issued a Papal Bull against the Inquisition.
Spain threatened to leave Rome to the mercy of conquering muslims. The Pope recinded his Papal Bull against the Inquisition. The Spanish Inquistion was for the most part a way for the Spanish Monarchy to persecute Jews. The Pope definetly had failure in judgement; however, it is inaccurate to portray that the Spanish Inquistion was managed by the Pope.
Moreover, the Inquisition was most certainly NOT originally established for the purpose of oppressing Jews.
The Inquisition was originally established to deal with the Cathari which included the Albigensians who were Manichaeans from Albi. The Cathari were regarded as a menace to society not only because of their hostility to Christianity, but also because of their hostility to the government by their attitude toward taking oaths which they declared under no circumstances allowable.
Their views were also fatal to the continuance of human society, for on the one hand they forbade marriage and the propagation of the human race, and on the other hand they made a duty of suicide through the institution of the "Endura."
It has been said that more perished through the Endura (the Catharist suicide code) than through the Inquisition. It was, therefore, natural enough for the custodians of the existing order in Europe, especially of the Christian religion, to adopt repressive measures against such revolutionary teachings.
The Catharist system was a simultaneous attack on the Catholic Church and the then existing State. The Church was directly assailed in its doctrine and hierarchy. The denial of the value of oaths, and the suppression, at least in theory, of the right to punish, undermined the basis of the Christian State. But the worst danger was that the triumph of the heretical principles meant the extinction of the human race. This annihilation was the direct consequence of the Catharist doctrine, that all intercourse between the sexes ought to be avoided and that suicide or the Endura, under certain circumstances, is not only lawful but commendable. The assertion of some writers, like Charles Molinier, that Catholic and Catharist teaching respecting marriage are identical, is an erroneous interpretation of Catholic doctrine and practice. Among Catholics, the priest is forbidden to marry, but the faithful can merit eternal happiness in the married state. For the Cathari, no salvation was possible without previous renunciation of marriage. Mr. H.C. Lea, who cannot be suspected of partiality towards the Catholic Church, writes: "However much we may deprecate the means used for its (Catharism) suppression and commiserate those who suffered for conscience' sake, we cannot but admit that the cause of orthodoxy was in this case the cause of progress and civilization. Had Catharism become dominant, or even had it been allowed to exist on equal terms, its influence could not have failed to prove disastrous." (See Lea, Inquisition, I, 106.)....read entire article...
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03435a.htm
People who like to trot out their lurid "inquisition tales" often fail to mention the fact that the Catholic Church was not alone in her belief in the justice of punishing heresy.
It is well known that belief in the justice of punishing heresy with death was so common among the sixteenth century reformers -- Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and their adherents -- that we may say their toleration began where their power ended. The Reformed theologian, Hieronymus Zanchi, declared in a lecture delivered at the University of Heidleberg:
We do not now ask if the authorities may pronounce sentence of death upon heretics; of that there can be no doubt, and all learned and right-minded men acknowledge it. The only question is whether the authorities are bound to perform this duty.
And Zanchi answers this second question in the affirmative, especially on the authority of "all pious and learned men who have written on the subject in our day" [Historisch-politische Blatter, CXL, (1907), p. 364]. It may be that in modern times men judge more leniency the views of others, but does this forthwith make their opinions objectively more correct than those of their predecessors? Is there no longer any inclination to persecution? As late as 1871 Professor Friedberg wrote in Holtzendorff's "Jahrbuch fur Gesetzebung": "If a new religious society were to be established today with such principles as those which, according to the Vatican Council, the Catholic Church declares a matter of faith, we would undoubtedly consider it a duty of the state to suppress, destroy, and uproot it by force" (Kölnische Volkszeitung, no. 782, 15 Sept., 1909). Do these sentiments indicate an ability to appraise justly the institutions and opinions of former centuries, not according to modern feelings, but to the standards of their age?
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm
Finally, here is an excerpt from a book by a Hebrew-Catholic ( a Jewish convert to Roman Catholic Christianity). Have you ever heard of the Association of Hebrew Catholics, Joyce?
The excerpt is a short portion taken from David Goldstein's 1943 book, "LETTERS Hebrew-Catholic to Mr. Isaacs". It is valuable not only because it clears up the many lies that have been formed over the years regarding the Spanish Inquisition and the Church, but also because the author himself is of Jewish extraction, having converted to Catholicism; in 1955 he was named a "Knight of St. Gregory" for his apologetic works by Pope Pius XII.
THE SPANISH INQUISITION
Excerpt from David Goldstein's "LETTERS to Mr. Isaacs" 1943
http://ftp.colloquium.co.uk/~barrett/inquisition.htm
Anonymous 6:10 (Nick)--
ReplyDeleteRemember last year when a Russian submersible planted a Russian flag underwater at the exact North Pole?
Vladmir Putin was exulting in having taken advantage of the squabbling between the US and Canada (and Russia) over who could legally claim certain parts of the area.
I though then, the he, by declaring sovereignty over that areas was, in effect, making himself the "King of the North."
Also, last year, Mohammar (sp?) Quadaffi was touted as being an able leader in the areas of Arab-Israeli relations. Seems his is now seen as a mature, conciliartory, "moderate" Muslim head-of-state. The seeming normalacy of the op-ed piece he authored a few days ago seemes to have burnished his recent reputation even more.
Interestingly, he was farily recently named the "king of Africa," (or something similar) by others on the continent. And, I believe that something along the lines of the appellation of the "King of the South" was applied to him too.
Only time will tell.
a little levity...
ReplyDeleteDid anyone else see this? On Huffington Post last week we see a macabre picture of Obama looking like he's changing water into wine, or maybe beer into blood.
He hosts a happy hour to get lawmakers to support his bill!
Get 'em drunk and take advantage of them!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/28/obama-to-host-white-house_n_161944.html
Joyce,
ReplyDeleteRegarding Constantine:
Gee, Joyce, have you been reading CONSTANTINE'S SWORD?
Here is a review of the book by the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights ( a kind of Catholic version of the Anti-Defamation League):
CONSTANTINE'S SWORD
Constantine’s Sword is a slogging journey through the history of the Church over the two millennia. He touches down here and there when it suits his purpose. For example, while the treatment of the 12th through the 16th centuries is endless, he barely touches on the nearly eight hundred years from Constantine to the calling of the First Crusade – which leaves a rather sizeable gap in the alleged causal linkage of anti-Semitism in the Church from the Gospels to the Holocaust.
After meandering quickly through the age of the early Church fathers, Carroll arrives at what he sees as a decisive point: Constantine’s victory at the Milvian Bridge in 312 AD. Briefly, Constantine was battling for eventual control of the Roman Empire. At the Milvian Bridge he would secure control of the Western Empire and, in 324, become sole emperor of the Roman Empire. Before the critical battle of the Milvian Bridge, Constantine claimed to have seen a vision of the Cross, and the Christian symbol was placed on his standards on the day of battle. After his victory, the Edict of Milan was issued ending the persecution of Christians. Ruling until his death in 337 AD, Constantine promoted Christianity as the religion of the Roman state and involved himself closely in internal Church affairs, though he was not actually baptized a Christian until a few days before his death. Though his ending of the Christian persecution was a critical point in Church history, his imperial involvement in Church affairs established a long-standing dispute over the rights of rulers in temporal and ecclesiastical affairs of the Church.
Carroll sees Constantine in a different light. Though his "political impact on Christianity is widely recognized," Carroll writes, "his role as a shaper of its central religious idea is insufficiently appreciated." Carroll claims that the "place of the cross in the Christian imagination changed with Constantine."[22] This would lead, according to Carroll, to a central theological tenet of Catholicism that wrongly focused on the death of Jesus as atonement and reparation for sin. Thus the concept of salvation would come to dominate Christian thinking as the meaning of the life of Jesus, His death on the Cross an act of atonement for sin. This was an intention that Jesus never had, according to Carroll.
At the same time, Constantine’s exercise of authority in the Church, particularly in the name of Christian unity, brought a heretofore unheard of emphasis on defined doctrinal orthodoxy. Church authority (which would evolve into papal absolutism) now entered the Christian scene as well.[23] Constantine, in Carroll’s view, was a very busy man. In any case, Carroll contends that the combination of these theological and legalistic forces centered on Constantine boded ill for the Jews who would be seen as the ones who "killed Christ" on a newly-emphasized cross, and whose failure to recognize their own Messiah was the ultimate heresy, the ultimate insult to Christian evangelization, and made them the first "dissenters" from unity of faith.
All this, of course, sounds a bit like a 16th Century anti-Catholic tract during the Reformation, or one of Jack Chick’s contemporary pamphlets claiming Catholic descent from a Babylonian mystery religion. The over 275 years after Christ and preceding Constantine showed a steady development of an understanding of a distinct Christian faith as well as the development of a rich community, liturgical and theological life. Concerns over unity of belief are evident in the earliest years of the Church[24] and a bewildering list of various heresies addressed by the Church long pre-date Constantine. The anti-Nicene fathers of the Church, apologists such as St. Justin Martyr, and early theologians such as St. Irenaeus, who described a world wounded by Adam’s sin but healed in Jesus, show an early Church developing an ordered set of beliefs rooted in Christ, distinct liturgy, and an insistence on Christ as the means toward salvation and eternal life. The theological concept of Christ’s atonement for sins was hardly a late-developing concept ingeniously inserted into Catholic life by a theologically illiterate Roman emperor, but is taught directly in the New Testament and in the writings of the early Church fathers. Constantine certainly had a strong impact on the early Church that would last for centuries. But Carroll attributes to him far too much impact in the areas of theology, ecclesiology, doctrinal theology and the Church’s hierarchical structure. These were areas of the Church developing for two centuries prior to Constantine and did not spring fully born from a Roman emperor with only a minimal understanding of the faith he embraced to under gird his Empire.
Carroll’s central thesis is that emphasis on the Cross as both a form of devotion and source for a theological understanding of the Christian message – enhanced by the legend of Constantine’s mother Helena finding the True Cross in Jerusalem – had a devastating impact on Christian self-understanding and on the attitude the Church would develop toward the Jews. Seeing the death of Jesus as central to God’s redemptive plan, the Cross ushered in a "teaching of contempt" toward Jews, a teaching that will lead over the centuries to the Nazi Final Solution. The actual destruction of the Jews once Christianity is backed by Roman imperial power, Carroll contends, is only prevented by the theological intervention of St. Augustine (354-430). Augustine would argue in The City of God that Jews had a specific role in God’s saving plan in that "a continuing Judaism would serve as a source of authenticity for the prophecy-based claims of Christianity."[25] At the end of the Sixth Century, Pope Gregory the Great would forbid any violence against Jews. Carroll argues that with the foundational theology of contempt established, however, the seeds of anti-Semitism had been planted by the Church, such official proclamations not withstanding.
It can be argued, of course, that the opposite holds true. Racial anti-Semitism had existed in the Roman Empire long before Christianity was a majority faith or even a known faith distinct from Judaism. Particularly with the Jewish Diaspora from the Holy Land throughout the Empire after their revolution was defeated by Roman soldiers in 70 AD and the temple destroyed, the Jews were viewed as a people apart. By the practices tied to their faith that reinforced their separateness from Roman society, the Jewish people were considered a distinct and disliked racial minority. Anti-Jewish attitudes were certainly inherited among Christians as the infant Church more aggressively attracted non-Jews to the burgeoning faith. But to claim that the reason for anti-Jewish attitudes in Western culture was a result of Christian Scripture and Christian theology requires that a history of anti-Semitism older than Christianity be ignored.
The pagan faiths disappeared over the centuries from Constantine to Pope Gregory the Great as the Roman world became essentially Christian. Judaism, however, did not disappear. Carroll suggests that the reason for this is an inherent anti-Semitism within Christianity that required the continued existence of the Jews. The logic doesn’t hold. He blames the Church for a cultural phenomenon that preceded it, and points to confirmation in the fact that the Church tried to limit both the severity and violence of anti-Jewish acts through the intervention of Augustine and the proclamation of Gregory the Great. The Jews survived the first thousand years of Christianity by the strength of their own faith and because the Church did not attempt to forcefully eradicate their faith. If Carroll’s premise was true, or as basic to the Christian faith as he contends, Judaism would have disappeared by Christian force and no "ambivalence" in Christian attitude would have stopped it.
After establishing his central premise – that Christianity is anti-Semitic in its foundational texts and that Constantine by his centralizing notions and "theology of the Cross" formalized anti-Semitism within the Church’s structure and devotion – Carroll proceeds to describe what he sees as a linkage through history of the Church to the Final Solution by portraying anti-Jewish actions in European history. Leaping ahead from Augustine to the Crusades 700 years later, where Jews were violently attacked, (attacks consistently condemned by the popes and the hierarchy), Carroll claims a "miscarried cult of the cross is ubiquitous in this story, from Milvian Bride to Auschwitz. The ‘way of the cross,’ which is another way of saying ‘crusade,’ is the definitive epiphany, laying bear the meaning of what went before and what went after, even to our own time."[26]
Though Carroll’s book can bend a coffee table at 756 pages, his litany of anti-Jewish incidents in Western history is spotty and lacking historical nuance. He touches on various events within Western history such as the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Plague, the Council of Trent and its aftermath, the French Revolution, the Dreyfus Affair, the Kulturkampf and concludes, actually quite briefly, with the Holocaust. Throughout these diverse and complicated historical trends and events, he sees a theology of the Cross and Church teaching on the atonement as being the dominant factor in generating anti-Jewish violence and anti-Semitic racism. This just doesn’t hold to be the causative factor that Carroll alleges in these complicated events.....read entire article....
http://www.catholicleague.org/research/constantine.htm
Thanks JD for that interesting link.
ReplyDeleteTake a look at this slick 13 minute slide show offered on this website that describes our “choices”:
http://gtinitiative.org/
”Welcome to the planetary phase of civilization. We are in the midst of a transformation with implications no less profound than earlier “great transitions” to settled agriculture and industrial society. The world is growing more connected, binding people and planet ever more tightly into one global system with one destiny. The long tentacles of commerce, communication, and culture are weaving nations and regions into a single planetary fabric. Humanity is trampling nature in boots that have grown to the size of the earth itself, compromising the capacity of the ecosphere to support life. A world stage is forming as a critical arena for crises, contending forms of consciousness and political engagement. The planetary phase is transforming both the earth and its inhabitants.”
Great Transitions Initiative and Tellus Institute director Paul Raskin, was a major contributor to the Earth Charter. Building on the work of Donald Keys, Raskin and his cronies claim that NOW is the time to “Choose our world”. They say the choice is a rather simple one, either we descend into chaos and barbarism resulting in a “fortress civilization”, or we unite into a “planetary civilization”.
Raskin certainly reinforces the idea that “we are the ones”.
Joyce,
ReplyDeleteRe:As for your father's observations, I'm not going to comment.
Smart move!