I received a lovely and encouraging telephone call from Pastor Jeff Whittaker a few minutes ago. I have been in court today and was still praying about my program today when he called. I had a very well received radio program with him several weeks ago about "The Emergent Church" and made him promise he would come back then. Since he called today, I drafted him for today's show, which will be the last Friday program for awhile. Joe McNeil has graciously granted my request for a later program which will catch the evening winter crowds -- at 5 p.m. Pacific time and 8 p.m. Eastern time TUESDAY AND FRIDAY. The new schedule will start next Tuesday.
Please tune in at www.themicroeffect.com and stay tuned!
Constance
Great Constance, those times work much better for me as well.
ReplyDeleteThanks
UN: Inequality could lead to civil unrest in US cities
ReplyDeleteRacial tension, weather anamolies as well as economic equality all are seen as possible sources for civil unrest in many major US cities cites the UN. So what, now they will blame it on global warming or is it cooling this week?
http://tinyurl.com/5e8suo
JD
http://apprising.org/
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, Apprising.org is down. I saw on googling that Rick Abanes had threatened a libel suit against somebody. Rick Abanes is a very interesting character and quite frankly he is playing a fascinating game -- need help with the legal defense against him -- give me a call!
ReplyDeleteConstance
ENLIGHTENMENT
ReplyDeleteThose reading here who don't get to see what New Age magazines are out there might want to go to the website of the high class magazine What Is Enlightenment. I call it high class because I feel one has to know the enemy and not just pretend they are a bunch of goofs.
http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/unbound/media.asp?id=244&ifr=hp-unb
This page of the website links to Thomas Barnett who says he is a Pentagon Advisor. The language is straight political New Age and sounds very much like the agenda of THAT ONE.
Dorothy
thanks Dorothy!...again the usual suspects collected in one place: Tolle, Ervin Laszlo, AoC's Karen Amstrong, 'Bishop' Tutu,...great find!
ReplyDeletefarmer
plus also occult painter Alex Grey and Solana's friend Jeremy Rifkin:
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/6cw9ms
http://www.enlightennext.org/
ReplyDeletemagazine/directory/
av.asp?ifr=u
tinyurl doesn't seem to work, here again:
The Fulfilled Prophecy website is also completely down again today, after a brief functional time late last night.
ReplyDeleteSome who go to the board (myself included)have only been able to get there through proxy servers for a few months now, so there is some blocking going on there at some level, but who knows where. Their technical staff have been unable to fix it. One of their own moderators even has trouble getting to the site.
Someone on the FP board had posted a link to an article stating that youtube, eBlogger, and wordpress are all banned in Turkey. I think IP servers can be blocked somehow.
I found the link in my history:
http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Worlds_largest_blog_hosting_service_banned_in_Turkey_27385.html
or:
http://tinyurl.com/6hgel3
Oh, wonderful, FP is back, and I don't need a proxy to get there either...nice change. :-)
ReplyDeleteBut Dorothy,
ReplyDeleteThey ARE a bunch of goofs.
Intelligent maybe, yet "professing themselves to be wise they became fools".
Your point is well taken though.
Thanks for the link.
Apprising Ministries and ChristianResearchNetwork.com are both dark. Apprising's problems with Richard Albanes took place for the most part in July of this year. Pastor Silva's website was dumped by IPowerWeb, and within 2 days he was up and running on a host that stated they would not have been so intimidated.
ReplyDeleteHe had some fast work by some great friends, but now I am surprised to see both sites down. He has put out a request for prayers, and financial support too, so perhaps it is just $$ problems?
One can only pray, but it's now been over 12 hours...
OBAMA'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE
ReplyDeleteJudge Surrick has tossed Berg's case on the basis that Berg did not have the authority to bring the case. In other words, a citizen has no right to see the Constitution upheld. Who does?
http://www.americasright.com/
So, who does have standing? "According to the Hon. R. Barclay Surrick, that's completely up to Congress to decide.
"If, through the political process, Congress determines that citizens, voters, or party members should police the Constitution’s eligibility requirements for the Presidency, then it is free to pass laws conferring standing on individuals like Plaintiff. Until that time, voters do not have standing to bring the sort of challenge that Plaintiff attempts to bring in the Amended Complaint."
My comment? Wha tha!!!
If a Democratic congress gets in, I really don't believe the voters will be given any powers. The Constitution will be a nice piece of paper for a museum display.
If you like legal discussions about who has standing, go to the website and get your fill.
As many have been asking, why doesn't Obama just show the vault copy of his birth certificate.
Dorothy
Dorothy,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much...
this is so disheartening...
So much for our unalienable rights...
With respect to French Pres. Sarkozy's recent push for an EU economic government:
ReplyDeletehttp://euractiv.com/en/opinion/czechs-reject-sarkozy-eurogroup-presidency-plans/article-176640
I.e., an "Eurozone government," which has the potential to place Spain as a "eurozone president" from 1/1/10-6/30/10, in addition to Spain's scheduled presidencies for the EU and WEU, for the same time):
1) Spain is the 8th economic power in the world:
http://www.france24.com/en/20081021-jose-luis-zapatero-spain-seat-international-crisis-summits-financial-spain&navi=EUROPE
2) P.M. Zapatero is pushing hard to be admitted to emergency summit meetings by the G-8, etc. (see link above).
3) P.M. Zapatero is co-sponsor of the Alliance of Civilizations (AoC).
4) P.M. Zapatero is a Socialist and friend of Dr. Solana's.
5) The Spanish economy is in excellent shape, despite the current credit crunch, as Spanish banks are largely restricted to commercial investment.
6) P.M. Zapatero has very liberal social policies, which has greatly upset the Catholic church over the years.
7) Have personally seen photos of P.M. Zapatero in what appeared to be mocking stances towards both the Catholic and Muslim faiths (not to mention once donning a terrorist-type headscarf while in Israel, which raised quite a few eyebrows, although he said it was just in jest). Such might seem to indicate an inherent disdain for all faiths.
8) The EU satellite center is located in Spain (over which Dr. Solana has control in the event of an emergency).
9) P.M. Zapatero is bi-lingual (Spanish and French):
http://www.antimoon.com/forum/t11084-30.htm
nony
For confirmation that Spain will hold both the EU and WEU presidencies the first half of 2010, go to following link and click on "2. Presidencies" listed at top, left under "Membership and Organisation):
ReplyDeletehttp://www.weu.int/
AFRICAN PRESS, MICHELLE OBAMA, ODINGA
ReplyDeleteWe won't know for sure until we can hear the tapes, but it this is true, it's blockbuster information.
http://africanpress.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/michelle-obama-tapes-reveals-raila-odinga-kenyas-prime-minister-is-in-the-priority-list-of-the-first-guests-to-the-white-house-if-obama-wins-the-us-presidency/ or http://tinyurl.com/57xr8u
Libya, Kenya, Odinga, Obama, Iran
One big stew is planned if Obama gets into office. Jews and Christians are potential targets under this kind of network.
Dorothy
Remember reading an article several years ago that P.M. Zapatero had learned to speak French (considered the "diplomatic language"). Who knows but what he has learned to speak English since.
ReplyDeleteTo all Obama watchers who are also interested in Bible prophecy: do not fail to read the above info. on Spain, as Dr. Solana and P.M. Zapatero are both Socialists and Spanish.
ReplyDeleteBut Dorothy,
ReplyDeletewith the current presidents personal view and quote that "the constitution is just a G _ _ d_ _ _ piece of paper" I do not see muc h diference there.
I can not stomach either candidate and refuse to drink the kool aid of a lesser of 2 evils.
Once again, my initial position has not changed, transition post poned.
DouginMI
To All,
ReplyDeleteJust received the info that our Pastor's daughter and son were sponsored by our church to be assessed by CPAC (Church Planting Assessment Center) to which they shared that they were placed under "intense" assessment testing by this program.
Quote from their website:
"Self-assessment is often reported as the most valuable outcome of CPAC--all of us can benefit from a concentrated period of self-reflection and surrender to God. Sponsoring churches and partnerships gain huge advantage by taking an "up close" look at prospective church planting leaders BEFORE hiring, usually as a final step in the process, or AFTER hiring to build a team with complementing strengths and well understood dynamics.
CPAC has served scores of church planting teams from many countries and diverse settings. Many organizations require assessment before planting a church, and CPAC is highly regarded as a valuable source of assistance for both planters and their sponsors and coaches."
My immediate concern regarding this "assessment program" relates to their logo. It looks very similar to the eye of Horus/ AoC logo, except that the horns are silver rather than green.
Here's the Link:
http://tinyurl.com/6omo2v
Browsing through the affiliates, I see some interesting commonalities: "networking",
"building communities", "helping people find their way back to God", " we are a reproducing church project", "change the world", "right leader", etc...
All of these affiliates have odd logos for representing a church body. They look like business logos.
Anyone familiar with this "network"?
-SV
Obama campaign cuts off future WFTV interviews after Joe Biden is asked tough questions.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQXcImQfubM
Please consider daylight saving changes and the difference for one week for US and Canada have it next Sunday, Nov 2, for Europe and Russia it has already happened (Oct 26).
ReplyDeletehttp://www.worldtimezone.com/daylight.html
farmer, who cannot sleep despite one hour plus...
After looking into the affiliates of the CPAC organization, I'm even more alarmed.
ReplyDeleteLinks:
http://www.shapevine.com
http://www.theforgottenways.org/
(Alan Hirsch, author/lecturer- just looking at the logo, creepy!)
http://www.cmaresources.org/
(networks include- The Starfish and the Spider.)
Wiki link on The Starfish...-
http://tinyurl.com/6kzynz
Endorsements list[which includes Klaus Schwab, Davos World Economic Forum; Paul Saffo, Institute for the Future; Carolyn Myss, author of Anatomy Of The Spirits and Sacred Contracts;Fredrick Luskin, Director of Stanford Forgiveness Projects...]-
http://tinyurl.com/5syqb6
Whatever "organic church bodies" they are "planting" are mingled and meshed with ALOT of NA/Business/Green Movement ideologies it appears.
Excerpt from The Starfish and The Spider-
"Starfish organizations, on the other hand, are based on completely different principles. They tend to organize around a shared ideology or a simple platform for communication- around ideologies like al Qaeda or Alcoholics Anonymous. They arise rapidly around the simplest ideas or platforms. Ideas or platforms that can be easily duplicated. Once they arrive they can be massively disruptive and are here to stay, for good or bad. And the Internet can help them flourish.
So in today's world starfish are starting to gain the upper hand...
The Starfish and the Spider by Ori Brafman and Rod A. Beckstrom, explores the phenomenal and unstoppable new power of the starfish organizations and will change the way you look at the world."
-SV
Berg vs. Obama
ReplyDeleteI have the pdf of the judges ruling. It states that Barack Obama is not a natural born US citizen and orders the DNC to pull him from the election. There is no mention of sending it to congress for a vote as the media is stating. It is pretty cut and dry, I believe something is amiss here.
http://tinyurl.com/6lfhuk
JD
I just examined the document purporting to be an order on line. That evidently was A PROPOSED ORDER that is required to be submitted with the motion that the attorney submitted. it does not appear to be signed by any judge -- just that it was submitted as part of the motion to restrain Obama from being listed on the ticket. THUS, there was never any ORDER, only a proposed order that was not granted.
ReplyDeleteYou are in my ballpark == the legal system == now!
Constanc
REPLY TO JD
ReplyDeleteWhat you are reading is Berg's submision on October 22.
Read here:
http://www.americasright.com/ The man has been following this case and is a legal writer.
Dorothy
JD
ReplyDeleteAlso note the comments at
http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=22
Probably you will see Surrick's decision publicly on Monday.
I should also mention that news of this decision is being seriously distorted here in Chicago. It is being stated that Berg said he was born in Kenya and the judge dismissed it because Obama was born in Hawaii.
Dorothy
VARIOUS WEBSITES
ReplyDeleteBerg's website is
http://obamacrimes.com/ It is stated there:
"Our website obamacrimes.com now has 71.8 + million hits. We are urging all to spread the word of our website – and forward to your local newspapers and radio and TV stations."
But if he is filing it in the wrong place, then all we can say is Thank You for your efforts and look to the filings in the eight other states to see what will happen.
At the very least keep up with the unreported commentary on Obama, particularly who his father might be at http://obambi.wordpress.com/
Compare it with what you are hearing over your local news.
Maybe we need to see how Obama is viewed by someone outside of the US. Here from the Asia Times.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB26Aa01.html or
http://tinyurl.com/6djbq2
and
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JA29Dj06.html
Then there is the article from an investment publication showing all of Obama's promises:
http://tinyurl.com/558ma8
Over months I've documented Obama's ties to the New Age movement. It looks as if he will be the winner of the elections. All most of us can do is watch history being made here in the US, not in the EU, not in the churches, but in the United States of America.
Based on how he is running his campaign, McCain is just the stick figure opposition.
Dorothy
SV, THE EYE is coming up every where; symbolism we should ‘watch’ (0)for.
ReplyDeleteKenya, on January 1 I wrote to this blog a warning about what I believed was Islamic involvement in the uprising:
“Though tribal infighting is being blamed for the violence that has claimed hundreds of lives, my guess is one day soon we’ll find out that an Islamic plan is behind this destabilizing rise in violence.”
Now investigators are piecing it together, and have been revealing not only the Islamic connection, the Obama connection, but another appeasement by the Bush administration. Have you ever noticed how a dog with a knuckle bone chews around the edges? Well, we are being fringed to death; and from the endless reports of the supplanting NA movement, the fifth column is set to spring the trap. Good thing we’re ready to go.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57363
Here’s a couple of quotes:
According to Jack Wheeler, the author of a newsletter titled To the Point, the Memorandum of Understanding allegedly contains a pledge by Odinga to make Kenya an Islamic state by re-writing the constitution of Kenya within six months after Odinga takes office as president, to recognize the Islamic sharia as the ruling law of the land.
As reported by the Australian in January, a crowd of some 2,000 Kenyans attacked Christians in Eldoret, a community about 300 kilometers west of Nairobi, where the Christians were being hunted down by machete-wielding assailants and hid inside pit latrines and fled for refuge to the community's Assemblies of God Christian church.
The crowd set fire to the church, terrifying the hundreds of family members outside who listened to victims' screams as flames engulfed them.
According to Red Cross witnesses, about 50 died in the attack.
From the link provided by Dorothy (THANKS):
“Although the contents in the tape is sensitive, API is of the opinion that the US people have a right to know their leaders and what to expect from them once they get to the highest office in the land. The tape, when made public, will reveal the immediate tasks and where the new administration will give priority. Africa, Iran and Venezuela will end up in the priority list of the “chosen” to be attended to and Kenya will play a very important role through Kenya’s Prime Minister Mr Raila Odinga who is said to be a distant cousin of Obama.”
Some may remember my saying that two years ago I had criticized Drudge for not paying more attention to North Africa and in particular Nairobi; I got no e-mail relpy from him, but as you can see, Kenya is awash with intrigue.
Obama’s associations continue to mean nothing, but as a symbol he is “messianic.”
Constance,
ReplyDeleteThanks for paying a visit to my blog recently. You can see my artwork at http://wwww.paintdance.blogspot.com
There's also a link to my official website there. If you like anything on it that's not already sold, let me know and I'll donate it to you for your fine work on the New Age.
I didn't go to church today for the first time in months. Need to sort some things out in my mind. Thanks to the many people who sent me links to try to help me in my current state of spiritual confusion.
I haven't been here for a while so I have not been reading the comments. However, I just came in and caught the last few and I'd like to propose a question. I'm sure Dorothy will answer, but I'd also especially like to hear from Joyce, since I understand she's a messianic Jew.
ReplyDeleteWhy is no one here mentioning that Philip Berg is a Kabbalist who founded the Kabbalah Center here in the US?
Now I know very little about the KAbbalah, but I've always lumped it in the same category as Gnostisicm, Secret Occult societies and the New Age. The guy believes in reincarnation and other esoteric mumbo jumbo that we fighters of the New Age are supposed to be against.
So why should we support Berg or anything he has done?
Maybe in light of his affiliations we should question his motives in fighting against an Obama presidency.
Not trying to be an agent provocateur but need some answers on Kabbalism because it has come up quite a bit in my recent readings thanks to the Gary Kah controversy and there are certainly mixed messages within the entire context of the Berg vs Obama debacle.
Re: Constance's comment 7:03
ReplyDeleteBingo.
Maybe Berg is intended to throw people off the track. To act as a decoy deflecting the truth that Obama is also a high-ranking member of the Illuminati or Secret Cult of Egyptian Pharoahs of the Hrus Eye in the Sky-looking at you-I can read your mind Society of Wack-Jobs.
Whatever. These people thrive on confusion.
Hi young grasshopper,
ReplyDeletePhilip S. Berg is the Kabbalist.
Philip J. Berg is a different man,
the attorney who filled the suit
against Obama. -Rudi
THanks Rudi,
ReplyDeleteFor clearing that up!
I still need for someone, (maybe Susanna could offer a Christian viewpoint) to give a brief explanantion of what kabbalism is and is not. Also, why did the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld group refer to themselves as the Cabal, with strong ties to philosopher Leo Strauss?
Interesting old article in the New Yorker about this:
"Strauss’s idea of hidden meaning, Shulsky and Schmitt added, “alerts one to the possibility that political life may be closely linked to deception. Indeed, it suggests that deception is the norm in political life, and the hope, to say nothing of the expectation, of establishing a politics that can dispense with it is the exception.”
Link Here:
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/05/12/030512fa_fact
Increasingly difficult to tell the good guys from the bad guys.
YOUNG GRASSHOPPER
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you do a Google search for the information you want rather than ask here for complex answers. Kabbalah as seen by Orthodox Jews or Kabbalah as seen by conspiracy sites...two different things. I really wonder what sites you have been visiting other than this one. The word cabal has nothing to do with Kabbalah. The term cabal goes back to 1654.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabal
where information about Colin Powell's use of the term ties in with your comments.
If one wants to go into conspiracy ideas, look to the idea that Powell is now linking with Obama and that ties with New Age antisemitism. Simplistic thinking.
Maryanne, I called your attention to this blog. I trust that you are a person looking to see what is going on in the US and elsewhere. I think you really need to do a lot of research on your own because there are huge amounts of information out there dealing with the questions you raise. Quick answers are never good and are only designed to manipulate innocent searchers for answers. Step back.
Dorothy
With reference to the recently held ASEM conference (10/24 and 10/25), representing "58% of the world's population and 60% of world trade," chaired by China (amazingly, ASEM has "bowed" to the EU, IMF, UN and World Bank re. the current financial crisis), note that at the very bottom of the Chair's Statement, under the heading "List of
ReplyDeleteIssue-based Leadership Issues," Spain is listed for finance:
http://tinyurl.com/54rtcw
or
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/ueDocs/cms_Data/docs/pressData/en/er/103551.pdf
As Mr. Herb Peters once famously said, "Folks, there is more going on here than meets the eye."
Apprising Ministries was up and running last I checked. Great information on how the "New Age" is creeping into the Evangelical Church!
ReplyDeletehttp://apprising.org/
Maryanne,
ReplyDeleteFrom the Jews I have spoken to who are more knowledgeable than myself, Kabbalah is a form of Jewish mysticism, and as such is not good. One friend told me "it is so mystical we can't understand it". A Jewish friend who thinks it's good told me that she has seen power displayed by kabbalist, to which I responded there is power displayed in witchcraft, and I know those who have personally witnessed this power.
Without getting into all the technical explanations of the ein sof and all the mystical aspects of Kabbalah, I will tell you that all of the major religions at this point are embracing forms of mysticism.. The Christians are embracing contemplative prayer, the Muslims have sufism, the Jews Kabbalah, the Hindus and Buddhists , etc, etc.
I have thought for some time now that the glue of the One World Religion of the antimessiah will include some form of mysticism... This seems consistent with the goals of people like Alice Bailey, but also with people like Heinrich Eliyahu Benedikt of the Jerusalem Academy. There seems to be a full court press on to get people into some sort of meditative practice or sacred music or yoga, etc. In all of the circles where intercultural dialogues are going on these kinds of practices are being introduced either indirectly or in very blatant ways.
For those of us who are believers in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and in Yeshshua God incarnate...we are not to eat of the fruit of this tree.
This is why studying Torah ( the first 5 books of the Bible) is sooooo important. God is very clear that we are not to go the way the nations go, or practice the things that the nations practice.
Consider yourself part of the Commonwealth of Israel ( Ephesians 2) and as such, in the newer covenant, which is just the covenant written on your heart.. you are grafted into the olive tree, called Israel through the blood of Messiah Yeshua.
The lawlessness that we see in the last days is Torahlessness...Paul talked about this...The mystical element provides an open door for the serpent to deceive the nations by eating of forbidden fruit. When we know the Scriptures, we are not likely to eat of this fruit.....The problem today is that many have forsaken the Scriptures in exchange for "experiences"..
I would just encourage you to not forsake assembling with brothers and sisters in the faith...Pray that God would lead you in truth and He will never disappoint you. You sound a bit discouraged lately and this too is a trick of the serpent to isolate us and keep us from fellowship with the saints so....
Remember to partake of the Tree of Life that was right in the middle of the Garden, which you have access to, grace of Messiah Yeshua, the Tree of Life, the Bread of Life, the Lamb of God, the Living Water...If you drink from the living water you will never go thirsty!!
Blessings in Yeshua,
Joyce
Thanks Dorothy,
ReplyDeleteYou've been a great help. Since you wondered what sites I had been on, I happened to be visiting Bjorn's blog (which I think Constance still sanctions) and his recent post on Cern, which led me back to his post on The Jackal Stone, which talked about The Thule society and the Termudi family and the connection to Steiner,Lenin and Hitler. Farmer said, " In Bursa he met with the Termudis, a Greek-Jewish family (btw. asSarkozy) from Saloniki."
Farmer posted a picture of text from "Occult Roots of Nazism: Secret Aryan Cults and Their Influence on Nazi Ideology", which talked about Kabbalism. Link here:
http://freiberg.blogspot.com
/2008/09/egypt-mermaid-sufi-dancing-bandirma.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/6j57qe
In googling Kabbalism, Wikipedia's explanation was no help at all since I know little about Judaism. Also, in googling the word Kabbalism, I got this link:
http://www.metafilter.com/25635/Neoconservative-Kabbalism
Which linked to the New Yorker article about Bush. Guess that's why I came here for help. So I wouldn't end up on one of those sites that you warned me about that gives out false ANTI-SEMETIC information. I had been initially interested in Farmer's reference to Sarkozy's name, which is why I wanted more information to begin with.
So is Farmer's site taboo, too?
Jeez, give me a break, Dorothy.
Sorry, I am so darned stupid!
I PROMISE I won't take up your time any more with my stupid assinine questions.
Joyce,
ReplyDeleteThank you so very much for helping me understand! That is exactly what I needed to know and you explained it with a wonderful clarity in tying it into my own faith as well as the Moslem faiths and the deceptions that abound everywhere within our faiths.
I also enjoyed the links to the whirling dervish Sufi links that you provided on Farmer's blog. Very imformative!
You also wrote something a few links down on this blog that left me wondering. You said:
"This week is also Sukkot when God instructed Israel ( and all who would attach to Israel) to build succahs ( booths) and dwell in them, to remind them of the fact that we came out of Egypt into the Wilderness, a place of "hearing God's voice". It is the time when most believe Yeshua was actually born."
I'd love any more information that you could share on that as I thought it fascinating that Yeshua was born then. If you have the time and could email me more about that, I'd greatly appreciate it. My email address is young_grasshopper@comcast.net.
I have been reading the Old Testament by the way. It's just taking me a lot of time!
Thanks again for your sincere kindness in helping me understand the right things!
Love in Him,
Maryanne
Joyce,
ReplyDeleteIn thinking about what you said as I drove to a nearby sandwich shop to pick up some lunch, I realized many more things.
First off, I suppose the reason I have been uneasy in my Evangelical church is because it does lean towards mysticism. Although it's not contemplative prayer that's the problem it goes into the opposite direction in trying to "experience" the presence of the Lord through some things that I'm just not comfortable with.
In addition, I realized that like you, I also have a Jewish best friend who is into numerology and astrology, and mercury going retrograde, and lei lines and channeling and The Secret and all these other mystical experiences that may go back somewhere to a family root in Kabbalism.
By talking about this in plain language, that I can relate to in terms of my own experiences, I can help my friend Sally understand that her New Age beliefs are dangerous and not far removed from witchcraft. Not surpirisingly, she is an avid supported of Obama.
Lots of food for thought here, but by tying the ends together for me in a cohesive way, Joyce, it is finally starting to make sense in terms of the big picture.
Thanks again!
Maryanne,
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad it was helpful and I will email you very soon...
With love in Yeshua,
Joyce
YG:
ReplyDeleteIt is really easy to get swept away in spotting deception and getting swept up in it. Even real easy to start seeing deception in everything. We all need to stay grounded in truth. You might benefit from reading my commentary here related to a game centered on deception http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/lessons-from-a-game-called-werewolfmafia/
We all need to start attending to the biblical festivals more. I began looking into them more this year and wrote about them. In terms of Sukkot here is commentary
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/the-final-biblical-festival-sukkot-the-feast-of-tabernaclesbooths/
and there are links to several good articals from a messianic view as well.
RESPONSE TO JOYCE
ReplyDeleteI think you are confusing the modern Christian idea of Kabbalah with what the Kabbalah is, as Orthodox Jews see it. While you may be in a position to judge it from a Christian point of view, I don't think you understand how it has developed in the Jewish culture.
While I am concerned that the literature connected with Kabbalah was influenced by the Gnostics in southern France hundrds of years ago, there is another aspect to it as it has developed as a study in the Jewish community.
The search for knowledge always goes on whether in the area of medicine, philosophy, biology, physics or other areas. Religion is no exception. For example, archeology adds to the information found in the Bible. In Judaism there are explanations of extensions of what is in the Bible and the how it carries over into modern life, for instance what does the Bible say about stem cell research. Know that Gershom Sholom's view of Kabbalah is seen by Orthodox Jews as a just what it is, a view by a secular Jew of a serious religious idea. Sholom is not the final word on anything.
Kabbalah has nothing to do with morality, and for that the Bible is the final word. http://www.jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm
Kabbalah is an attempt to logically explore the unknown world around us, what human life is, or for instance how God can be described in human terms. Psychology, biology, physics astrophysics, etc. are all attempts to understand the same kinds of things that hundreds of years ago people tried to understand without the same information we now have. Then there is the attempt to merge that information with that which is in the Bible.
It's not that the study of such things was secretive, but that only a few could understand what was being analyzed. In addition, the average individuals cannot understand what is being writtn because it is written in Hebrew.
I don't study the Kabbalah any more than I study advanced electronics, astrophysics, or computer technology. If anyone would write that studies of these things are mysticism, magic or occult sciences, I would think them foolish or people with an agenda of their own.
If Orthodox Jews who accept the authority of the Bible can study Kabbalah (and it is suggested that they not study it until the age of 40 when they are well grounded in Torah Judaism), then simplistic views of Kabbalah should be understood for what they are.
Dorothy
YOUNG GRASSHOPPER
ReplyDeleteNo one speaks for all Jews. No one speaks for all Christians. No one speaks for all Catholics. No one speaks for all Republicans. No one speaks or all Democrat. No one speaks for all painters. No one speaks for all artists. No one speaks for all Cumbey followers. No one speaks for all people who live in Florida.
As hard as it is, we need to understand that no part of the media is neutral, that any organizations speak for all members of a group, no polling group is neutral, all who call themselves Christian are to be trusted, and the government people are there to help you etc.
After following this for over 26 years, I can say that what you are being fed by the mass media or any group, is a load of hooey, and that includes some who call themselves independent researchers on this website. You need to do a lot on your own.
Dorothy
Dorothy,
ReplyDeleteAlthough God allowed David to take down Goliath on his own, later, He gave David an army to continue to defeat the enemy.
I takes an army to filter out deception because it is like leaven, and it greatly expands in quantity.
Why the insistance that everyone be a one-man army?
It isn't written in His Scripture that "everyone for himself" mentality.
It is written that everyone should work together for the good of those who love Him.
Yes, you are more knowledgeable. Yes, you are more competant at finding deception.
Yes, you are older and wiser for all of your experience.
And as such I admire you.
Why do you seemingly discourage those who are trying hard to protect their loved ones, and also themselves, while honoring their faith in God and clinging to His promises?
Questions are never stupid when an honest heart is trying to find the truth.
-SV
Dorothy, Constance,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the clarification.
JD
Okay, since I technically just woke up from a delightful 'Sunday after Church' nap, I grabbed a sub-sandwich and caught up on Constance's site, I'm starting to get my baring now.
ReplyDeleteSorry, Dorothy, if I sounded ornery to you. I mean you no disrespect.
I truly don't understand why the 'go find out for yourself' stance, however. It will discourage many unnecessarily.
I took a Scripture out of context in my last comment, showing myself to be not completely awake when I chose to comment. Foolish I can be at times! Forgive me.
The Scripture that I actually mean to refer to is Ephesians 3:6- "This mystery is that through the gospel, the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together with one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus."
Thereby, as one body working together, we are not each a one-man army, but an army working together to defeat the enemy by the power of Christ Jesus.
Sincerely In Him,
-SV
SV, no one is trying to discourage anyone. It's just a matter of continuing to learn from each other. I continue to learn from what others post here and never think I can't learn any more. What I learn I try to pass on. I understand that a lot of what is posted here is involved with Christianity and being Jewish it's outside of my territory.
ReplyDeleteDorothy
What folks don't get is that the 6 month presidencies of the EU come and go -- it is Solana, so far, who has permanency!
ReplyDeleteConstance
I appreciate your comment, Dorothy, Thank you.
ReplyDelete-SV
RESPONSE TO JOYCE
ReplyDeleteI think you are confusing the modern Christian idea of Kabbalah with what the Kabbalah is, as Orthodox Jews see it. While you may be in a position to judge it from a Christian point of view, I don't think you understand how it has developed in the Jewish culture.
While I am concerned that the literature connected with Kabbalah was influenced by the Gnostics in southern France hundrds of years ago, there is another aspect to it as it has developed as a study in the Jewish community.
The search for knowledge always goes on whether in the area of medicine, philosophy, biology, physics or other areas. Religion is no exception. For example, archeology adds to the information found in the Bible. In Judaism there are explanations of extensions of what is in the Bible and the how it carries over into modern life, for instance what does the Bible say about stem cell research. Know that Gershom Sholom's view of Kabbalah is seen by Orthodox Jews as a just what it is, a view by a secular Jew of a serious religious idea. Sholom is not the final word on anything.
Kabbalah has nothing to do with morality, and for that the Bible is the final word. http://www.jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm
Kabbalah is an attempt to logically explore the unknown world around us, what human life is, or for instance how God can be described in human terms. Psychology, biology, physics astrophysics, etc. are all attempts to understand the same kinds of things that hundreds of years ago people tried to understand without the same information we now have. Then there is the attempt to merge that information with that which is in the Bible.
It's not that the study of such things was secretive, but that only a few could understand what was being analyzed. In addition, the average individuals cannot understand what is being writtn because it is written in Hebrew.
I don't study the Kabbalah any more than I study advanced electronics, astrophysics, or computer technology. If anyone would write that studies of these things are mysticism, magic or occult sciences, I would think them foolish or people with an agenda of their own.
If Orthodox Jews who accept the authority of the Bible can study Kabbalah (and it is suggested that they not study it until the age of 40 when they are well grounded in Torah Judaism), then simplistic views of Kabbalah should be understood for what they are.
Dorothy
Young Grasshopper- I'd like to read the New Yorker article but I'm not having success finding it with the link you gave or searches on the site. Can you help? Thanks! -Rudi
ReplyDeleteDorothy,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, my view was not a "Christian" view, but from Jews themselves. Secondly, unlike you perhaps, I believe Orthodox Jews can be deceived. too, just like anyone else. One of the people I spoke to was a Orthodox Jew, a Sabra trained by Israeli Orthodox Jewish rabbis. This person has seen supernatural happenings as a result of the practice of Kabbalah. On the other hand I know people who have engaged with animism, the variety practiced in Africa, who have experienced the same thing.
Bad fruit is bad fruit. Mystically repeating a Psalm over and over again a certain number of times to get a desired effect is sorcery, not prayer. It's interesting to note some of the same Jews I know who practice Kabbalah believe they are protected by wearing the "evil eye" or the hand of Fatima, or a red thread on their wrist.. These are Orthodox Jews, not Jewish believers in Yeshua. There are believers in Yeshua who start to get dangerously close to dabbling in Kabbalah too because they are enamored with Judaism.
I am not enamored with Judaism. I love the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and His Torah, and the Living Torah. I would not hold up Orthodox Judaism as a model of perfection, because there is much that is done in the Orthodox faith that is extra-Biblical and that would include Kabbalah, even though they will claim that Kabbalah is based on the Bible. Having said that, we can also get wisdom from rabbinic literature and I would submit to those on this blog that they cannot really understand Yeshua in His context if they don't know anything about the Judaism of the Second Temple period. Lots of things He says are hebraisms, because He was a Jew of His day and speaks from the Tanakh all the time. In fact, He reveals Himself in the Tanakh. Yeshua was also highly critical of the religious leaders of His day, because they had made their rules more important than the Word of God. Being very bold about saying this was one of the things that really ticked these leaders off. In fact these very same leaders were responsible for handing Him over to the Romans to crucify. So much for their halakha....Many of the Jews recognized He was the Messiah and followed Him. Most of His disciples died for their faith in Him, were imprisoned beaten etc.
We cannot prove all of the Oral Law was given to Moses at Sinai...I don't believe that what is practiced today is from Mt. Sinai. The whole synagogue system really developed more fully because of the destruction of the Temple and the inability to carry out the commands to Moses to sacrifice animals in the appointed place, Jerusalem. Of course, we believers in Yeshua know that Yeshua
died and shed His blood, and cleansed our sins one time for all, and opened the way to the throne room in heaven. God allowed the destruction of the Temple, knowing that Yeshua became the Lamb of Pessach, sacrifice of Yom Kippur. His death fulfilled all the righteous requirements to permit us access to God, which only the Cohen HaGadol had prior to this.
There probably are parts of oral tradition that were accurately handed down, but it is impossible for anyone to prove that all of the oral traditions were accurately preserved and recorded and that all of the halakha is "God-breathed"..
For this reason we have the expression 2 rabbis/5 opinions when it comes to how to live out Torah. For this reason we have different branches of Judaism, just like there is in Christianity or even within the Messianic movement.
By the way, just fyi, there are a group of rabbis in Israel that believe in Yeshua and are studying the Apostles writings. They are in in the yeshivas, and have not as yet come out in public with this information. They are not "Christians", they are Orthodox rabbis. This is not widely known, but I thought it would be encouraging for the readers of this blog to know that in our generation God is revealing Yeshua to many Jews, those who are listening to His voice. I had the privilege of meeting one of these on a recent trip to Israel and it was really a joy to see what Abba is doing in these last days.
Dorothy, the Torah says that blood sacrifice is required for the remission of sins. Jews can do all the mitzvah they want but without the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sin...It's not me who says that. Torah says that, so you can believe all the tradition you want but if it contradicts Torah, there is a big problem. God is merciful and would not leave His people without a means of being purified from their sins, which is why He Himself came to die for His people, for Israel.. Kabbalah, Slabbalah...These people can have all the knowledge they want, without BLOOD there is NO forgiveness for sin!!! Read your Torah carefully and you will see that I am right.
I will repeat what I said, mysticism is the glue that will hold together the one world religion. Heinrich Eliyahu Benedikt, the Jew who is trying to deceive many understands this well, and it would be wise for all of us to stay away from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and eat from the Tree of Life, Yeshua the living Torah...
Christianity may have made lots of mistakes when they threw out Torah...but there's a lot of history behind that...which I won't go into here. One thing that Christianity got right, which is the most important thing is that Yeshua came to tabernacle with us. God incarnate came to dwell with us, and then He died for us. Like Abraham, Abba took His Son to the mountain and was willing that He should die so that the many would be justified.. As Abraham said so accurately "God will provide the sacrifice" and indeed He did. It was Himself.
He did not stay in the tomb however, He became the first fruit of the resurrection, that all would believe in Him would not perish but have life and have it abundantly. We are saved by faith, not by secret hidden knowledge. Kabbalah is the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, Yeshua is the Tree of Life.. All who eat from this tree will not die!
When Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden fruit, God already knew how He would save them...He said, that the seed of the woman would crush the head of the serpent. Yeshua came to defeat Satan and his offspring, so we have to decide are we the descendants of God or are we the descendants of the devil.
Shalom,
joyce
By the way Dorothy, here are some of your own comments from the Israel forum so evidently you have some problems with kabbalah too:
ReplyDeleteDorothy
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 423
Jerusalem Academy
The New Age movement is very involved in determining the plans for peace in the Middle East.
At http://www.freiberg.blogspot.com/ Bjorn translated a book from German written by a cult founder. The book is a mish mash of occult, pagan, Kabbalah, Jewish, Christian and New Age ideas. The interpretation of the information is the kind usually found where antisemitic material is sold. The cult leader is Heinrich Elijahu Benedikt and the main group is in Germany. However there are branches in other places including Israel. Bjorn has attempted a page by page translation of the cult's book so that anyone can see what their beliefs are. Bjorn's first language isn't English, so the reading doesn't flow smoothly.
From Bjorn's blog:
HEB has powerful connections.
" HEB is the author of the Jerusalem Peace Academy, with connections with the UN since Oslo 1992. (link to be provided), offering a deceptive Peace Plan to all participants.
- He is the German debuty of the Club of Budapest of New Ager Ervin Laszlo, connected with Michael Gorbatchev, the Club of Rome, the Alliance of Civilizations (AoC, Bishop Tutu), Crans Montana Forum and such having influence on Politicians, Decision Makers of Business and Media, NGOs.
-H.E.B. is half German and half Jewish, using a lot of Jewish Mystic (Kabbalah) and Catharism, thus changing Biblical meaning to its complete opposite: after HEB everybody has to redeem him/herself alone, for after HEB the great sacrifice deed and blood of Jesus Christ was not enough, HEB is preaching redemption by good deeds after a long evolutionary path and awakening the „godly sparks” inside of everybody through a great initiation by the help of the ancient mysteries of Atlantis, Chaldea and Egypt."
Why should this concern you? Because the Jerusalem Peace Academy is partnered with names of prominance in the Israeli Jewish community. They may or may not know what is taught in his cult groups.
http://www.jerusalem-academy.org/pageID_3174303.html Some of the sponsors are:
Associate partners: Daniel Kropf, Italian-Israeli entrepreneur and founder of "Education for Life"; Prof. Jaakov Bar-Siman-Tov, Head of Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies; Prof. Haggai Kuperminz, University of Haifa; Bernd von Bismarck, Human Potential & Organizational Development; Marshall B. Rosenberg, author of NVC; Prof. Nikolaus von Kaisenberg, Alanus University, Shulamit Elson, "Soulsongs";
Members of the Advisory Board: Prof. Shlomo Hasson, Hebrew University of Jerusalem; Prof. Dan Bar-On, BGU Beer Sheba; Prof Sami Adwan, Univ. of Bethlehem; PRIME; Rabbi Nathan Lopes Cardozo, Dean of Cardozo Academy;
Council for Jewish affairs, politics, education and change:
Rabbi Eichler, Spokesman of the Admor of Belz;
Rabbi Nathan Lopes Cardozo, Dean of Cardozo Academy;
Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz, Founder-Director of Merkaz Steinsaltz;
Rabbi David Zeller
This is the Academy's 209 page peace plan:
http://www.jerusalem-academy.org/med...-_COMPLETE.PDF
If you know anyone on this list, please contact them and let them know of the cult book's translation.
Now if more Jews had the nerve to fight the New Age movement, such prominent rabbis wouldn't be linking themselves to an occult/pagan New Age cult leader. It's a shame for the community that Christians have to do our work for us.
____________________________________________
Good post, but don't feel bad that Christians are doing the work for the Jews...and I doubt it would make any difference with these rabbis..There are plenty of Christians linking to the New Age and all the Christian blogging hasn't done a thing to stop that. . People are deceived because they don't believe in the Words of the one who came to bring us life.. When their eyes are opened to the truth, they no longer want the counterfeit.
We will all have to chose ultimately which tree we eat from, the Tree of Life or the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
As for me, I chose life.
Joyce
Joyce
Rudi,
ReplyDeleteHi there.
I checked the original link and it works for me. Here it is again:
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/05/12/030512fa_fact
or
http://tinyurl.com/3e5epc
The link that led me there in the first place was:
http://www.metafilter.com/25635/Neoconservative-Kabbalism
If you click on the words "Strong Ties" it takes you to the New Yorker article.
Hope that helps.
To Joyce @ 1:11 PM
ReplyDeleteRe: "From the Jews I have spoken to who are more knowledgeable than myself, Kabbalah is a form of Jewish mysticism, and as such is not good. One friend told me "it is so mystical we can't understand it".
Even singer, Madonna's soon-to-be-ex-husband, Guy Ritchie is quoted as saying, "I don't really understand [it]. I don't think it's a religon as far as I'm aware."
Supposedly, her obsession with Kabbalah was just one of the many factors that contributed to the end of their marriage.
Thank-you YG. I was able to begin reading the article today. It's a long one, huh? -Rudi
ReplyDeleteHi Joyce,
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed your post! I always understand my Christian faith much better after reading your posts. I know there is a lot of symbolism that I miss by not understanding the Hebrew roots of it.
In Hi,
Deannie
HI Deannie,
ReplyDeleteJust saw your remark...thanks. I'm glad that it's helpful..
Blessings,
Joyce
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