tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post168421659224393444..comments2024-03-29T03:56:00.726-04:00Comments on My perspective -- What Constance thinks: Invitation to Speaking Event January 30, 2009Constance Cumbeyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07181096121385621574noreply@blogger.comBlogger276125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-80843753980720066342013-11-11T05:30:29.189-05:002013-11-11T05:30:29.189-05:00The reason I liked here is that this place so inti...The reason I liked here is that this place so intimate and personable and while having astounding atmosphere! 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Highlight a primitive and natural flavour, it is suitable for female people wear the fashion wind.cambridge satchelshttp://www.cambridgesatchelus.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-25872171871748051382009-03-05T23:11:00.000-05:002009-03-05T23:11:00.000-05:00Constance has not authorized this request for dona...Constance has not authorized this request for donations to Micro Effect towards her radio program; My Perspective. We want to help Constance stay on the air. MAKE YOUR DONATIONS TO MICRO EFFECT, JOE MCNEIL AT P.O. BOX 164, KAMIAH, ID 83536 Let Joe know in a note either by email at the station or by snail mail with your donation, you are donating to My Perspective Radio program with Constance. Any donation would be appreciated. <BR/><BR/>Also you can donate through the CHIP IN box on the main page of Micro Effect Radio. It's a paypal donation. Just let Joe McNeil know you are putting this toward Constance's show only.<BR/><BR/>Some have already donated. Thanks! MargieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-86029091123051716852009-03-05T23:08:00.000-05:002009-03-05T23:08:00.000-05:00Constance has not authorized this request for dona...Constance has not authorized this request for donations to Micro Effect towards her radio program; My Perspective. We want to help Constance stay on the air. MAKE YOUR DONATIONS TO MICRO EFFECT, JOE MCNEIL AT P.O. BOX 164, KAMIAH, ID 83536 Let Joe know in a note either by email at the station or by snail mail with your donation, you are donating to My Perspective Radio program with Constance. Any donation would be appreciated. <BR/><BR/>Also you can donate through the CHIP IN box on the main page of Micro Effect Radio. It's a paypal donation. Just let Joe McNeil know you are putting this toward Constance's show only.<BR/><BR/>Some have already donated. Thanks! MargieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-37971666352246247422009-03-05T23:07:00.000-05:002009-03-05T23:07:00.000-05:00Constance has not authorized this request for dona...Constance has not authorized this request for donations to Micro Effect towards her radio program; My Perspective. We want to help Constance stay on the air. MAKE YOUR DONATIONS TO MICRO EFFECT, JOE MCNEIL AT P.O. BOX 164, KAMIAH, ID 83536 Let Joe know in a note either by email at the station or by snail mail with your donation, you are donating to My Perspective Radio program with Constance. Any donation would be appreciated. <BR/><BR/>Also you can donate through the CHIP IN box on the main page of Micro Effect Radio. It's a paypal donation. Just let Joe McNeil know you are putting this toward Constance's show only.<BR/><BR/>Some have already donated. Thanks! MargieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-61688406644682713442009-01-30T23:18:00.000-05:002009-01-30T23:18:00.000-05:00Margie,Amen to that!JoyceMargie,<BR/>Amen to that!<BR/>JoyceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-53184255332578810952009-01-30T22:39:00.000-05:002009-01-30T22:39:00.000-05:00Amen! Joyce and the cultural baggage. The Word of...Amen! Joyce and the cultural baggage. The Word of God is clear to those who love truth. I'd love to share a couple of verses about that and they are clear and literal.<BR/><BR/>John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak and he will shew you things to come.<BR/><BR/>The other verse is from John 17:17<BR/>Sanctify them through thy truth: THY WORD IS TRUTH.<BR/><BR/>When we love the Word of God and we love his truth; then his word will be clearly shown to us and that God will do everything he says he will do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-87667828240927033642009-01-30T14:38:00.000-05:002009-01-30T14:38:00.000-05:00Margie, Just saw your post sandwiched between Len'...Margie, <BR/>Just saw your post sandwiched between Len's and mine. Yes, I agree with you. The snake is still saying "did God really say".. From my perspective, I know that God is able well able to reveal Himself any way He so choses.. Which is why He said I Will Be What I will Be, literally translated.. The question is do we see Him? <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, most of the time people see Him through a grid of cultural baggage instead of how He reveals Himself. <BR/><BR/>Shabbat shalom,<BR/>JoyceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-30194304904773037592009-01-30T11:48:00.000-05:002009-01-30T11:48:00.000-05:00Len,You have misinterpreted my words. I did not ...Len,<BR/><BR/>You have misinterpreted my words. I did not say that Moses saw a specific image of the Lord from within the bush.. I simply said that it was the Lord calling "from the midst of the bush".. Scripture does not tell us what Moses saw, beyond the fact that the bush was burning and not consumed and the Lord was "in the midst of it" . <BR/><BR/> You and I will probably have a very different idea of the "angel of the Lord".. Many times when the angel of the Lord is there, so is the Lord Himself.. I want to suggest that this term, at times is used interchangeably with the Lord suggesting that the angel is the Lord. You are working with an assumption that from within the bush was an angelic being, I am working with the assumption that the Lord Himself showed up in some preincarnate form...Now what exactly Moses saw... I have no idea and I will not try to venture to say beyond what the passage says, but the passage flips from angel of the Lord to the Lord...and this happens elsewhere in Scripture. <BR/><BR/><BR/>In the passage with Abraham when he has 3 visitors, we see that "the Lord appeared to him"..<BR/><BR/>Gen. 18:1 ¶ Now athe LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. The Lord is among these visitors. Scripture doesn't explain exactly how it was that the Lord is having a very personal conversation with Abraham and Sarah and it coincides with this visit, but the implication of the text is that the Lord is one of these visitors.. When the visitors, angels continue on to Sodom and Gomorrah there are only 2...angelic messengers and the Lord Himself is no longer there. I do not believe the Lord went to Sodom and Gomorrah, but rather the two remaining angelic messengers did. <BR/><BR/>One verse that is very interesting in the context of a miraculous birth is what the Lord Himself says to Sarah:<BR/><BR/>Gen. 18:14 “Is anything too difficult for the LORD?<BR/><BR/>I agree that we are not supposed to depict God and Scripture doesn't tell us exactly what any of these men saw, not Abraham, not Jacob, nor Moses, so we can only imagine what these appearances are about. These are some of the verses in Torah, where I would like to suggest to you that Torah is preparing us for the fact that the messenger of the Lord is the Lord Himself. <BR/><BR/>When prophets like Isaiah are given heavenly visions like the one in the throne room, I want to suggest that God does reveal Himself in these visions, because if He had not Isaiah would not have made the remark that he did...In the second half of verse 5 of chapter 6, he says it very clearly:<BR/><BR/>Yet my own eyes have beheld The King LORD of Hosts.” <BR/><BR/>In this type of visions, which we see in the book of Ezekiel, in Isaiah and in the book of Revelations, the line between vision and reality seems quite blurred.. If it were not blurred the Prophets would not have responded with such awe of the visions that they received.. I think these visions are more than dreams.. I believe and I know that God gives people visions that are as real as reality itself.. Enough so that these men recorded in vivid detail their visions. <BR/><BR/>I suspect when Moses "saw the Promised Land" at the end of his life, the kind of seeing was not just a little image in his imagination but a kind of spiritual seeing that is reserved for great men of faith.. We know that Moses could not have literally "seen" the Promised Land, because he would not have been able to literally see from his vantage point.. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Deut. 34:1-4 aNow Moses went up from the plains of Moab to Mount Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, which is opposite Jericho. And the LORD bshowed him all the land, Gilead as far as Dan, and all Naphtali and the land of Ephraim and Manasseh, and all the land of Judah as far as the western sea, and the 1Negev and the plain in the valley of Jericho, athe city of palm trees, as far as Zoar. Then the LORD said to him, “This is the land which aI swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, ‘I will give it to your 1descendants’; I have let you see it with your eyes, but you shall not go over there.” <BR/><BR/>There is seeing and seeing.. <BR/><BR/>I believe that Jacob literally wrestled with the Lord and it doesn't matter how many years Jews have been interpreting Scripture. Some of us Jews today can see that some of our brothers have been misinterpreting parts of Scripture because of their own inability to see God when He is face to face with them. That is why today, there are Jews that understand that the God made pre-incarnate appearances to some of the Patriarchs and Prophets.. Sometimes it was in human form, sometimes in a burning bush, sometimes in a pillar of smoke, sometimes in a cloud, sometimes it was in visions that were completely real to the prophet seeing them. <BR/><BR/>Rev. 1:10 I was in the Spirit on bthe Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice clike the sound of a trumpet, <BR/><BR/>John goes on to describe the throne in heaven, the endtime events in ways that are palpable. <BR/><BR/>Paul says this:<BR/><BR/>2Cor. 12:2-5 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago — whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, bGod knows — such a man was ccaught up to the dthird heaven. And I know how such a man — whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, aGod knows — was acaught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak. On behalf of such a man I will boast; but on my own behalf I will not boast, except in regard to my weaknesses. <BR/><BR/>All that to say, I don't know that this visions are figments of the imagination, but something quite supernatural that certain people have experienced.. <BR/><BR/>The Lord gave Ezekiel a vision that was to be given to the house of Israel.. It is a vision very similar to John's in some ways:<BR/><BR/>Ezek. 40:3-4 So He brought me there; and behold, there was a man whose appearance was like the appearance of bronze, with a bline of flax and a cmeasuring 1rod in his hand; and he was standing in the gateway. The man said to me, “aSon of man, bsee with your eyes, hear with your ears, and give attention to all that I am going to show you; for you have been brought here in order to show it to you. cDeclare to the house of Israel all that you see.” <BR/><BR/><BR/>.Jacob understood that he was face to face with God, but the wrestling match ended before daybreak so chances are he didn't "see" much.. He did understand who he was wrestling with though, that is clear from his remark. <BR/><BR/>Gen. 32:26 Then he said, “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” But he said, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” <BR/><BR/>This man was not going to allow Jacob to clearly "see his face" and yet Jacob says he was face to face with the Lord. Why would his life have to be preserved had he not been "face to face" with God:<BR/><BR/>Gen. 32:30 So Jacob named the place 1Peniel, for he said, “aI have seen God face to face, yet my 2life has been preserved.” <BR/><BR/>That's the word in my text and according to Halot lexicon, it is correct:<BR/><BR/>: *תוךְ, Bauer-Leander Heb. 456n, on p. 457.<BR/> A. a sbst. which is often a bound-form with a preposition; the derivation of the word is uncertain (according to Rabin Orientalia 32 (1963) 136 תׇ;וֶךְ is a loanword from Hittite tuekka body, self; Tomback Lexicon 205 prefers to find a Semitic etymology); MHeb. תׇ;וֶךְ, ת;וךְ middle: 1) inside, inner part; 2) ת;וךְ, בְ;תוֹךְ in, during (Dalman Wörterbuch 439b); DSS (Kuhn Konkordanz 231) most often בתוך, rarer מתוך and אל תוך; Old Sinaitic tk (Albright Proto-Sinaitic p. 44); Ph. mtkt midst (Friedrich Gramm. §200d, 202d); bmtkt (Kilamuwa 5) in the midst, underneath in the middle (Donner-Röllig Inschriften text 24; 2: p. 32; cf. Jean-Hoftijzer Dictionnaire 172; Tomback Lexicon 205; see Hoftijzer-Jongeling Dictionary 708: mtkh either oppression or midst, with bibliography for both suggestions); Ug. tk (Gordon Textbook §19:2538, 2548; Aistleitner Wb. 2755; Gibson Myths2 159b): tk to, towards, btk in, within, tk in front (Dietrich-Loretz-Sanmartin Texte 1, 3:iv:41f: w tk pnh before him).<BR/> B. cstr. ת;וךְ, sf. ת;וכִי, ת;וכְךׇ, ת;וכֵךְ, ת;וכֵכִי (Ps 11619 1359 :: תכך from western variant), on this (Arm.) ending see Gesenius-Kautzsch Gramm. §91e; Bauer-Leander Heb. 251j; Wagner Aram. §15: 2 (p. 130); ת;וכֹוֹ, ת;וכֹה (Ezk 4815.21), ת;וכׇה;, ת;וכֵנו…, ת;וכְכֶם, כׇם(ֹוֹ)תֹ;, תּוֹכׇהְנַׇה (Ezk 1653), see Gesenius-Kautzsch Gramm. §91f; Bauer-Leander Heb. 252p.<BR/><BR/>Hope that helps. <BR/><BR/>I wouldn't use the word allegorical to describe the expression "face to face" but it is a Hebrew idiom to say "in the presence of".. I am not trying to say that these men saw the actual image of God's face. I don't know what image they saw, but it is safe to say that in all of these cases they were seeing some manifestation of the Lord Himself.. Moses certainly had a different relationship to God than the rest in the sense that he was on the mountain speaking "face to face" and did see God's "back". <BR/><BR/> For me that YHVH who appeared to Moses from within the burning bush is a pre-incarnate appearance of Yeshua, because Yeshua clearly identifies Himself as I AM or I will be what I will be.. to translate it more literally.<BR/><BR/>John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham 1was born, I am.”<BR/><BR/>I do believe that God does not violate His Word, in the sense that He does not contradict Himself, but I don't think we always hear Him properly and when we have a set idea about what we know it's impossible to see.. If Moses had not kept looking at that burning bush, he would not have seen God or heard from God.. There was something within Moses that allowed him to enter into face to face relationship with God..<BR/><BR/>If all the Jews had all the answers, they would already all be dwelling in and fully possessing the Promise Land as a community... The truth is God is not done revealing Himself to the Jews yet.. There will come a time very soon when He will:<BR/><BR/><BR/>I have had my "burning bush" experience and have known the Lord face to face, which is why I can speak with confidence about Him.. Yeshua didn't reveal Himself to the religious leaders but to the fisherman, the tax collectors, the despised... If you have put God in your box He will not reveal Himself to you as the I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE...<BR/><BR/><BR/>You may think you have corrected my errors, and I can and do make errors at times, but I know what I know and I am not making any now...As Yeshua said to Nicodemus...Len, you are a teacher ....do you not know that you must be born again? Do you not know that you must be born of the Spirit.? Do you not know that flesh and blood will never inherit the Kingdom of God.? You know that God is holy, and so do I.. You are so convinced of His holiness, you are sure that it's a horrible sin to believe in Yeshua...and yet, you, the way you are right now cannot see spiritually what Yeshua has done for you... <BR/><BR/>The spiritual sight that God has given me ( I can't take credit, it's His grace) accounts for my ability to see Yeshua in the text where you cannot...and my ability to know Him as Adonai. <BR/><BR/>Yeshua was much greater than Moses...and Moses we agree was very special. Yeshua was the Torah, who came in the flesh.. The pre-incarnate appearances point us all to Him.. When you get to know Him, you will be able to see Him better in the text.. Until then, you and I can spend a lot of time going back and forth like this, but I don't know if much will come out of it.. I prefer to pray for you.. <BR/><BR/>Ex. 13:21 aThe LORD was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night. <BR/><BR/><BR/>He is still my pillar of cloud and my pillar of fire.. I hope some day you can experience Him in all of His fulness..I'm confident you will. It's just a matter of time.. Look forward to the day when that happens.. I don't know whether we'll still be here on the blog or we'll be standing in Jerusalem...<BR/><BR/>Shabbat shalom,<BR/>JoyceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-3831853725103496412009-01-30T02:41:00.000-05:002009-01-30T02:41:00.000-05:001/30/2009Joyce wrote: Ex. 34:5 aThe LORD descended...1/30/2009<BR/><BR/>Joyce wrote: Ex. 34:5 aThe LORD descended in the cloud and stood there with him as he called upon the name of the LORD. <BR/><BR/>You could translate it this way but a better translation is:<BR/><BR/>Ex. 34:5 aThe LORD descended in the cloud and [it] stood there with him as he called upon the name of the LORD. <BR/><BR/>Either way, do not misinterpret the meaning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-68032356091975011572009-01-30T02:27:00.000-05:002009-01-30T02:27:00.000-05:001/30/2009Joyce wrote: “I have to disagree with you...1/30/2009<BR/><BR/>Joyce wrote: “I have to disagree with you because it says that the Lord called him from the midst of the bush:<BR/><BR/>Ex. 3:4 When the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, a God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” <BR/><BR/>I welcome disagreement as it gives me an opportunity to correct misunderstandings; even my own when I am wrong. First of all your interpretation of Exod. 3:4 is incorrect. If you go back to 3:2 you will see that it says:<BR/><BR/>2 An angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from within the thorn bush, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, but the thorn bush was not being consumed. 3 So Moses said, "Let me turn now and see this great spectacle why does the thorn bush not burn up?" 4 The Lord saw that he had turned to see, and God called to him from within the thorn bush, and He said, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am!"<BR/><BR/>Though the Lord called Moses from the midst of the burning bush the Lord was not in the bush; rather an angel. An angel often sands in for God as in Jacob’s wrestling incident. The point of my citation from 1 Kings 19:11-2 is that God resembles nothing on earth, in the sky or under the water as stated clearly in the Second Commandment and reiterated in Deut. 4:15-20:<BR/><BR/>15 And you shall watch yourselves very well, for you did not see not any image on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb from the midst of the fire. 16 Lest you become corrupt and make for yourselves a graven image, the representation of any form, the likeness of male or female, 17 the likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the heaven, 18 the likeness of anything that crawls on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters, beneath the earth. 19 And lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and see the sun, and the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, which the Lord your God assigned to all peoples under the entire heaven, and be drawn away to prostrate yourselves before them and worship them. 20 But the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron crucible, out of Egypt, to be a people of His possession, as of this day.<BR/><BR/>Here too, in Vs. 15, God spoke “from the midst of the fire” but God was not in the fire. Why would God be in the fire here, and in the burning bush, but not in the fire that Elisha witnessed? Does that make any sense? The fire is where the voice appears to be coming from; period.<BR/><BR/>>>Isaiah sees the Lord of hosts in the throne room in Isaiah 6, where it says:<BR/><BR/>Is. 6:5 I cried, “Woe is me; I am lost! For I am a man of unclean lips And I live among a people Of unclean lips; Yet my own eyes have beheld The King LORD of Hosts.” <BR/><BR/>But this is plainly a hypnotic vision based on what it says in Numbers 12:6:<BR/><BR/>5 The Lord descended in a pillar of cloud and stood at the entrance of the Tent. He called to Aaron and Miriam, and they both went out. 6 He said, "Please listen to My words. If there be prophets among you, [I] the Lord will make Myself known to him in a vision; I will speak to him in a dream. 7 Not so is My servant Moses; he is faithful throughout My house. 8 With him I speak mouth to mouth; in a vision and not in riddles, and he beholds the image of the Lord.<BR/><BR/>Now that we have disposed of Isaiah 6:5 you will move your argument up to Moses from Num. 8. I am anticipating<BR/><BR/>But based on other biblical passages Moses beholding “the image of the Lord” is also allegoric because of another verse in Exod. 33: God’s response when Moses asked to see His glory:<BR/><BR/>20 And He said, "You will not be able to see My face, for man shall not see Me and live." 21 And the Lord said: "Behold, there is a place with Me, and you shall stand on the rock. 22 And it shall be that when My glory passes by, I will place you into the cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with My hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove My hand, and you will see My back but My face shall not be seen."<BR/><BR/>This also raises questions because of apparent contradiction between Vss. 20 and 23. The logical interpretation is that God’s glory is evidenced from history; after He has “passed by.” Moses is considered the greatest prophet because, among other reasons, he was the only prophet able to communicate with God while awake or not in a trance/vision as stated in Num. 12:5-8.<BR/><BR/>>>As you can see plainly, it's just what the text says.. the hebrew word "tavek" seems to clearly denote that the Lord was speaking from within the bush.. <BR/><BR/>If you mean to stick with the text of Exod. 3:4 why are you introducing the word “tavek” which is not in there? The phrase “from the midst of the thorn-bush is, in Hebrew: “meetokh ha’so-neh.”<BR/><BR/>>>I won't get into the business with the angel of the Lord, because often times we see the "angel of the Lord and then the Lord is speaking to the person face to face.. I'm thinking of the passage with Jacob wrestling. <BR/><BR/>Exactly; except for the words “face to face” which are allegoric even for Moses.<BR/><BR/>Deut. 34: 10 And there was no other prophet who arose in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, 11 as manifested by all the signs and wonders, which the Lord had sent him to perform in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and all his servants, and to all his land, 12 and all the strong hand, and all the great awe, which Moses performed before the eyes of all Israel.<BR/><BR/>>>Gen. 32:24 Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. 28 He said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed.” --- 30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved.” <BR/>This time God appears as a man.. It's very clear that <BR/>Jacob was wrestling with a man, to which Jacob says.."I have seen God face to face". The man also tells Jacob that he has been wrestling with God, thus the name change.. <BR/><BR/>Joyce; Jews have been interpreting the Bible for 3300 years and the word “Elohim” in these verses can mean “God” but all Jewish Bibles translate it here as either “the Divine” or “God[ly beings]” (including the brackets) or “an angel.” Jewws do not make the Christian error of thinking God will Himself appear as a human in contradiction of the Second Commandment, Deut. 4:16-18, Exod. 33:20 and Num. 12:6.<BR/><BR/>>>I will repeat that God can reveal Himself anyway that He so pleases.. He is not limited by our imagination..<BR/><BR/>God will not contradict His own rules. <BR/><BR/>This is a complicated subject, easily confusing, but I hope I have clarified it to some extent.<BR/><BR/>LenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-25777953071153351442009-01-30T01:55:00.000-05:002009-01-30T01:55:00.000-05:00clue...obeying Torah will not bring about the new ...clue...obeying Torah will not bring about the new birth...when we are born again, our desire will be to have God's Word written on our minds and by His Spirit we will be empowered to obey. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, a lot of Church teaching has obscured this and thus the confusion.. It saddens me to see how the Church has undermined God's Torah...His loving instructions to us..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-33189638840736107542009-01-30T01:51:00.000-05:002009-01-30T01:51:00.000-05:00p.s. Len, I love that passage from Isaiah and I ag...p.s. Len, I love that passage from Isaiah and I agree with you that one of the problems that Christianity does not understand is that they are to enter into the covenant and are called to follow Torah, not for salvation though.. but because they fundamentally understand now that they are fully grafted into Israel.. <BR/><BR/>The Northern Kingdom became like Gentiles in the sense that they assimilated and didn't obey Torah. This was the reason for their semi-permanent exile. God being fully of mercy, redeemed them Himself. I don't believe when God redeems the Northern Kingdom that they will continue to disobey Torah, but I believe it will be written on their minds ( leb).. This mystery of how God writes Torah on our minds, is when His Spirit indwells us which can only happen through the new birth.. <BR/><BR/>I would recommend that you start by reading Yeshua's words before reading Paul's. Paul will never, ever contradict Yeshua.. He can't. Most people thing Paul started a new religion, but that's not what he did..and therein lies the confusion. Paul loved Torah, but he fundamentally understood that his salvation came through Yeshua, who he was previously persecuting...<BR/><BR/><BR/>This is great passage and will explain "born of the Spirit".. <BR/><BR/>ohn 3:2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “aRabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these 1bsigns that You do unless cGod is with him.” <BR/>John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one ais born 1again he cannot see bthe kingdom of God.”<BR/>John 3:4 ¶ Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” <BR/>John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of awater and the Spirit he cannot enter into bthe kingdom of God.<BR/>John 3:6 “aThat which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.<BR/>John 3:7 “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born 1again.’<BR/>John 3:8 “aThe wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”<BR/>John 3:9 ¶ Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” <BR/>John 3:10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you athe teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?<BR/>John 3:11 “Truly, truly, I say to you, awe speak of what we know and btestify of what we have seen, and byou do not accept our testimony.<BR/>John 3:12 “If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?<BR/>John 3:13 “aNo one has ascended into heaven, but bHe who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.<BR/>John 3:14 “As aMoses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must bthe Son of Man cbe lifted up;<BR/>John 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Len, I think you are a teacher of Torah.. I can see that you love Torah and really believe in it which I do too.. Try to understand Yeshua in the light of Torah and you will begin to understand what He was saying..<BR/><BR/>JoyceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-26295495636140047522009-01-30T01:42:00.000-05:002009-01-30T01:42:00.000-05:00Len,I'm not going to search through the old commen...Len,<BR/><BR/>I'm not going to search through the old comments, but when I said that Ephraim and Manassah were adopted way back when you first started writing, you disagreed with me. I remember very distinctly. but I'm glad you agree now..<BR/><BR/>Actually, according to a rabbi friend of mine, the name Jew is probably more recent than that and is a subject of some discussion.. It comes from Yehudi which referred to Judeans.. The issue is that the Northern Kingdom has largely been forgotten and they are not "Jews". One day, God is going to restore All Israel. In the meantime, Jews have preserved Torah and from Judah comes Yeshua, no doubt that this was according to God's plan in 1 Kings when Rehoboam wants to attack the Northern Kingdom, God tells him not to because the "split was from Him". <BR/><BR/>Prophetically speaking though, God will restore All of the tribes and their tribal identities. The nations can join themselves to Israel and in fact always have. I don't believe this means the nations will follow Judaism. The new/newer covenant according to Jer 31:31-33 is when the Torah is written on our minds.. I don't equate this with following Judaism. <BR/><BR/>I believe that there must be new birth as Yeshua said to Nicodemus.. a teacher of Israel... He said if Nicodemus wasn't "born again" he would not see the kingdom of God.. That new birth comes from coming into relationship with Yeshua i.e. when our "old man" dies and we are born again in Messiah. <BR/><BR/>We are then spiritually alive, spiritually alive to the things of God. Torah on our minds is not in legalistic observance but through the life giving Spirit.. <BR/><BR/>No one, not Abraham, nor Moses, nor Joshua, etc, etc. were justified through Torah. They were justified through faith and belief in the promises of God. This is what Paul was always saying. <BR/><BR/>Being "under the law" is being under the death penalty that Torah outlines.. Abraham, Moses and the rest looked forward to the promised Messiah, Yeshua and so they were justified by faith .. We are now looking back...and our faith is also based on what we don't see...This faith is a gift.. <BR/><BR/>Len, you're probably a very nice man, but you're wrong about Paul. He didn't talk out of both sides of his mouth... Paul was talking about a situation in Second Temple Judaism in which there were people saying that the new believers in Yeshua had to be circumcised to be accepted into the community. <BR/><BR/>Works of Law-ergo nomos is a Greek expression that indicated this. . Most people believe "works of law" means Torah observance, but it was actually something more specific than that..<BR/><BR/>Paul's point was that Abraham was justified without being circumcised and that the law was added because of transgressions.. Paul is actually pretty hard to understand if you don't pay careful attention and understand context. Even Peter says this. Being Jew to the Jew and Gentile to Gentile does not mean he was a hypocrite. If I am talking to a Buddhist about Yeshua, I'm not going to say the same things that I say to you... It doesn't mean that I am lying to them. I'm just going to focus on things that will touch them..<BR/><BR/>In Paul's actions he was very clear where he stood. He was Torah observant, but not because he thought it would save him. If Torah observance would have saved him, he would have no need to know Yeshua, because he was already Torah observant. He knew the source of his salvation and that was Yeshua. <BR/><BR/>Still praying for you to. have..<BR/>Shalom in Yeshua,<BR/>JoyceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-59176860935620827992009-01-30T01:06:00.000-05:002009-01-30T01:06:00.000-05:001/30/2009Joyce wrote: "Christianity...Christianity...1/30/2009<BR/><BR/>Joyce wrote: "Christianity...Christianity grew up in a Greek culture..and so necessarily the ideas filtered in.. I think Paul was always fighting against this. You see it in his Epistles.. People assume he's criticizing Jews, when a lot of his criticisms are against Gnostics, Jewish mystics, and Asceticism. "<BR/><BR/>Paul spoke out of both sides of his mouth and readily admitted it when he said in 1 Cor. 9:19-23:<BR/><BR/>19: For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. <BR/>20: And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; <BR/>21: To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. <BR/>22: To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. <BR/>23: And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you. <BR/><BR/>Paul criticized Jews for what he considered a futile attempt to obey the Torah and said that any failure dooms them. He said that, if law could justify, Jesus died in vain. This deceit and pretence is still followed by today's missionaries as if Jewish attempted observance of the Torah, even if imperfect, is not what God really wants; that the Torah ends with Jesus and the only thing needed is faith in him. Jews who don't believe in Jesus are shamed. (Rom. 9:33, 10:4, 14) How preposterous can you get???<BR/><BR/>LenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-75643191336816221562009-01-30T00:39:00.000-05:002009-01-30T00:39:00.000-05:001/30/2009Joyce wrote: "If you remember the story, ...1/30/2009<BR/><BR/>Joyce wrote: "If you remember the story, when Israel's about to die, he adopts Ephraim and Manassah giving them the status of sonship ( even though their mother was an Egyptian). Len will argue with me on this but here it is in black and white:"<BR/><BR/>Why would I argue with what the Bible says in black and white? Where I do argue is with what you make up that is not in the Bible -- meaning the Jewish Bible. This includes the claptrap about how Jews (Judans) are not Israelites and your inventions about Jesus as being derived from all this.<BR/><BR/>BTW, the first mention of "Jew" (or Judean) in the Bible is a little earlier than you stated: in 21 Kings 16:6:<BR/><BR/>6 At that time, Rezin the king of Aram restored Elath to Aram, and drove out the Judeans from Eloth, and Edomites came to Elath and dwelt there until this day.<BR/><BR/>The word "Jew" comes from the southern kingdom of Judah which was the surviving one (temporarily) after the northern kingdom of Israel was lost and its people dispersed.<BR/><BR/>Judah also contained the tribes of Benjamin and Levi, as well as some from the defeated northern kingdom who escaped when it was defeated by Assyria.<BR/><BR/>Today no Jew but the Levites (Kohayn/priest and Levite) know which tribe they were from. Others consider themselves merely Israelites.<BR/><BR/>Why should the surviving tribes not be entitled to be included in the Israelite nation as you state? And why shouldn't converts be also so included? The Covenant was, and is, open so that a foreigner/ Gentile could become an Israelite. Recall Isaiah:<BR/><BR/>"Let not the foreigner, who has joined himself to Hashem, say: 'Hashem will utterly separate me from His people;' and not the eunich say, 'I am a withered tree.' For thus said Hashem: 'To the eunichs who observe My<BR/>Sabbaths and choose what I desire, and grasp a tight hold of my covenant: I will give them a place of honor and renown, in My house and within My walls, better than sons and daughters; eternal renown will I give them, which will<BR/>never be terminated. And the foreigners who join themselves to Hashem, to serve Him and to love the Name of Hashem, to be His servants, all who guard<BR/>the Sabbath against desecration, and grasp a tight hold of my covenant -- I will bring them to My sacred mountain and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their elevation offerings and their feast offerings shall be welcome on My alter, for My house of prayer shall be called a house of prayer for all the peoples. Thus declares Hashem/Elohim Who gathers all the dispersed of<BR/>Israel: "I shall gather still more to those already gathered. (Isaiah 56:3-8)" <BR/><BR/>LenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-1200670500041107792009-01-29T15:06:00.000-05:002009-01-29T15:06:00.000-05:00Amen, Joyce: I will repeat that God can reveal Him...Amen, Joyce: I will repeat that God can reveal Himself anyway that He so pleases.. He is not limited by our imagination.. <BR/><BR/>The word is clearly literal about the burning bush not symbolic. Too many are making the Word of God out to be symbolic when it is literal. God is God and he can do anything he pleases. It's hard for our finite minds to comprehend, so Christians are symbolizing the text to make it more understandable. God's word is clear in that passage and so many others that have been symbolized.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-32339304228389087152009-01-29T10:18:00.000-05:002009-01-29T10:18:00.000-05:00I want to ad that in the Ex 34, the Lord stood the...I want to ad that in the Ex 34, the Lord stood there with Moses, before HE passed by.. the word for pass by is the same word used in the 1Kings passage, with Isaiah that you cited, but the difference is the Lord descended in the cloud and rested there with Moses:<BR/><BR/>Ex. 34:5 aThe LORD descended in the cloud and stood there with him as he called upon the name of the LORD. <BR/><BR/>I don't think the passage in Ex 3 is only symbolic..<BR/>Shalom,<BR/>JoyceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-12836866556765131522009-01-29T10:03:00.000-05:002009-01-29T10:03:00.000-05:00Len,I have to disagree with you because it says th...Len,<BR/>I have to disagree with you because it says that the Lord called him from the midst of the bush:<BR/><BR/>Ex. 3:4 When the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, aGod called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” <BR/><BR/>The passages you quoted from about Isaiah, says specifically that the Lord was NOT in the wind, NOT in the fire. Isaiah sees the Lord of hosts in the throne room in Isaiah 6, where it says:<BR/><BR/>Is. 6:5 I cried, “Woe is me; I am lost! For I am a man of unclean lips And I live among a people Of unclean lips; Yet my own eyes have beheld The King LORD of Hosts.” <BR/><BR/>To me the difference between the passage of Ex 3 and 1KI 19:11-12...The key word is NOT.. whereas ex 3 says the Lord called from the "midst" of the bush.. <BR/><BR/>There is another experience where the Lord passes before Moses face, on the very same mountain when he is going to receive the tablets a second time:<BR/><BR/>Ex. 34:5-6 The LORD descended in the cloud and stood there with him as 1he called upon the name of the LORD. Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD God,<BR/><BR/>Both times Moses is at the Mountain of God.. in the Ex 3 passage it's called Horeb, but later on it's called Sinai. <BR/><BR/>As you can see plainly, it's just what the text says.. the hebrew word "tavek" seems to clearly denote that the Lord was speaking from within the bush.. There are other more personal reasons why I believe this to be true, but I won't go into that..I want to stick with the text. <BR/><BR/>In the passage about Isaiah, the LORD is passing by, so the physical manifestations are from His passing, but HE is not IN them. I think you can see the difference if you read carefully...<BR/><BR/>I won't get into the business with the angel of the Lord, because often times we see the "angel of the Lord and then the Lord is speaking to the person face to face.. I'm thinking of the passage with Jacob wrestling. <BR/><BR/>Gen. 32:24 Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. <BR/><BR/>Gen. 32:28 aHe said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed.” <BR/><BR/>Gen. 32:30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved.” <BR/><BR/>This time God appears as a man.. It's very clear that <BR/>Jacob was wrestling with a man, to which Jacob says.."I have seen God face to face". The man also tells Jacob that he has been wrestling with God, thus the name change.. <BR/><BR/><BR/>I will repeat that God can reveal Himself anyway that He so pleases.. He is not limited by our imagination.. <BR/><BR/>This may be why some of our people have a hard time believing that God can appear incarnate.. They have a set idea about how they perceive God...and when he defies their imagination, they dismiss it. Imagine if Moses had not "turned aside " to look at the bush..he might not have noticed that this bush was not consumed by the fire..Burning bushes are common in the wilderness, I understand, but not burning bushes that are not consumed. <BR/><BR/>When we can "see" with spiritual eyes, we can "see" how Yeshua is who He is...<BR/><BR/>Shalom and blessings,<BR/>JoyceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-49478844820802902022009-01-29T02:40:00.000-05:002009-01-29T02:40:00.000-05:001/29/2009Joyce wrote: “If someone can explain to m...1/29/2009<BR/><BR/>Joyce wrote: “If someone can explain to me how God can appear in a bush that isn't consumed, a pillar of smoke, a pillar of fire, as the "angel of God" who wrestles with Jacob.. Jacob says, "I have seen God and I didn't die". We have a similar situation going on with Abraham and the 3 visitors, and it says the Lord ( YHVH) appeared to him. ---<BR/><BR/>“The men and women in the Bible who walked with God, met Him in amazing ways. They didn't question, "why are you showing yourself to me in a burning bush? " You're supposed to be God, and God is not in a burning bush.. or why are you revealing yourself as a man, God is not supposed to be a man. When they heard His voice, they simply knew it and followed.”<BR/><BR/>Is your question whether God can appear in a bush or that the bush was not consumed?<BR/><BR/>You have to understand that the burning bush was a symbolic prophetic vision created by God for Moses and delivered by an angel (Exod. 3:2-6). Moses was fearful that Egypt would destroy Israel. The surviving puny bush was symbolic of puny Israel that would never be destroyed.<BR/><BR/>The prophetic vision of the bush was Moses’ first such; hence his amazement. He was drawn into it gradually, first the fire, then the angel, and finally the indwelling presence of God’s light that was to blinding to observe.<BR/><BR/>This event must not be misconstrued as being about Moses seeing God or God being in the fire. This will be seen more clearly from another event. I am particularly fond of the story of Elijah's illuminating encounter with God when he was hiding in the cave. <BR/><BR/>"[The word of God] then said, 'Go out [of the cave] and stand on the mountain before The LORD.' And behold, The LORD was passing, and a great powerful wind, smashing mountains and breaking rocks, went before The LORD. 'The LORD is not in the wind!' [Elijah was told]. After the wind came an earthquake. 'The LORD is not in the earthquake.' After the earthquake came a fire. 'The LORD is not in the fire.' After the fire came a still small voice. (1 Kings 19:11-12)"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-88303188194878391332009-01-29T02:15:00.000-05:002009-01-29T02:15:00.000-05:001/29/2009Joyce wrote: “If someone can explain to m...1/29/2009<BR/><BR/>Joyce wrote: “If someone can explain to me how God can appear in a bush that isn't consumed, a pillar of smoke, a pillar of fire, as the "angel of God" who wrestles with Jacob. Jacob says, "I have seen God and I didn't die". We have a similar situation going on with Abraham and the 3 visitors, and it says the Lord ( YHVH) appeared to him. ---<BR/><BR/>“The men and women in the Bible who walked with God, met Him in amazing ways. They didn't question, "why are you showing yourself to me in a burning bush? " You're supposed to be God, and God is not in a burning bush.. or why are you revealing yourself as a man, God is not supposed to be a man. When they heard His voice, they simply knew it and followed.”<BR/><BR/>Is your question whether God can appear in a bush or that the bush was not consumed?<BR/><BR/>You have to understand that the burning bush was a symbolic prophetic vision created by God for Moses and delivered by an angel (Exod. 3:2-6). Moses was fearful that Egypt would destroy Israel. The surviving puny bush was symbolic of puny Israel that would never be destroyed.<BR/><BR/>The prophetic vision of the bush was Moses’ first such; hence his amazement. He was drawn into it gradually, first the fire, then the angel, and finally the indwelling presence of God’s light that was to blinding to observe.<BR/><BR/>This event must not be misconstrued as being about Moses seeing God or God being in the fire. This will be seen more clearly from another event. I am particularly fond of the story of Elijah's illuminating encounter with God when he was hiding in the cave. <BR/> <BR/>"[The word of God] then said, 'Go out [of the cave] and stand on the mountain before The LORD.' And behold, The LORD was passing, and a great powerful wind, smashing mountains and breaking rocks, went before The LORD. 'The LORD is not in the wind!' [Elijah was told]. After the wind came an earthquake. 'The LORD is not in the earthquake.' After the earthquake came a fire. 'The LORD is not in the fire.' After the fire came a still small voice. (1 Kings 19:11-12)"<BR/><BR/>LenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-61285507758796918472009-01-28T17:49:00.000-05:002009-01-28T17:49:00.000-05:00Brother Jason is right about the "narrow way". I'...Brother Jason is right about the "narrow way". I'd rather take that way than be on the "wide way" that leads to destruction. <BR/><BR/>As a younger woman working in a hospital they used to say I had "tunnel vision" too narrow minded I guess. It's not easy to be a Christian in that atmosphere and it's probably worse today in any. But I didn't go along with the crowd. The only way we should determine right from wrong is the only measuring stick we have and that's the Word of God. And as I told the Administrator one day; there's only black and white in the Word of God no gray areas at all, she was Jewish. They wanted to know if I was going to go with the strike that was taking place; I said "NO", I didn't believe in it. <BR/><BR/>It's important to line up with the Word of God in all we do. And appreciate your stand Constance and the value you put on it, no matter what the subject. This is what my husband Tim noticed about you as he listens to your radio program.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-28618113111564766862009-01-28T14:55:00.000-05:002009-01-28T14:55:00.000-05:00Anonymous,Matt. 5:22 “But I say to you that everyo...Anonymous,<BR/>Matt. 5:22 “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.<BR/><BR/>Just some food for thought. Be careful..<BR/>JoyceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-10602370600362547922009-01-28T14:00:00.000-05:002009-01-28T14:00:00.000-05:00I would note for Silvia's benefit that self-righte...I would note for <BR/>Silvia's benefit that self-righteousness is an evil spirit as well -- in fact a leading one behind those calling for Jesus' crucifixion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11772087.post-34542547357809194622009-01-28T12:52:00.000-05:002009-01-28T12:52:00.000-05:00Constance,My role? The least i hope is that you th...Constance,<BR/><BR/>My role? The least i hope is that you think about what Christ meant when He said: John 3:3 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.<BR/><BR/>Being born again is the heart of christendom. Being renewed. That is the very reason Christ gave His life so that we might be forgiven, cleansed from sin and have eternal life if we choose to accept Him and stay in His word. What He did was sufficient and absolutely nothing must be added and if things are added than another christ/gospel is preached.<BR/><BR/>If someone is not born again he/she cannot enter Gods Kingdom. The Lord is very clear about that.<BR/><BR/>That is where Matthew 7:14 comes in: Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be<BR/>that find it.<BR/><BR/>and <BR/>Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that<BR/>doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.<BR/><BR/>Matthew 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have<BR/>we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew<BR/>you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. and the rest of Matthew 7.<BR/><BR/>To do the will of God it is of the utmost importance one is born again out of grace. Without being renewed all good works are in vain, scripture is very clear that good works by itself will not save anyone only the atoning work of Christ and the following rebirth of the sinner.<BR/><BR/>Any person/church that preaches a gospel other than the one in scripture is by definition another gospel with another christ which will not lead to the lifesaving rebirth.<BR/><BR/>So no matter how nice or moral some muslims, hindu's etc. are, the fact is they are not renewed and cannot enter according to God. God however is just above all, those who've never heard the gospel will be judged by their heart/lives (romans), but God is strict according to scripture to those who wilfully reject the one and only Christ from scripture.<BR/><BR/>So, it does makes all the difference in the world which Christ is preached. Unfortunately there are many of them but thankfully one that is Faithfull and True.There's only one Christ who can provide the rebirth for a sinner. There are numerous testimonies on the net that will tell you that because of the these false gospels people are witheld the most essential; the rebirth.<BR/><BR/>SilviaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com