Monday, January 12, 2015

So much happening that it's hard to summarize everything of concern!

Jesus told his disciples that the end would come as a flood.  He also analogized it to birth pangs.  They were warned that "in such a moment as ye think not" it could come in an admonition to stay always ready.  He also made references to Sodom and Gomorrah and the suddenness in which it hit that culture.

The birth pangs are especially interesting.  They increase in intensity, coming closer and closer together as they strengthen.

Developments of the last few years have certainly proved interesting.  An anti-New Age Pope Benedict XVI (formerly Cardinal Ratzinger) made an unprecedented retirement.  He was replaced with Argentina's Cardinal Bergoglio.  Liberal Catholic author Robert Blair Kaiser had Bergoglio on his short list of "pro-change" Popes.  Ratzinger had been on his list of "no-change" Popes.

Today, per news reports, Pope Francis has blamed the ISIS-Al Qaeda violence on deviant fundamentalist religion.  He also expressed hopes that 2015 would bring about progress toward a "climate change agreement."

As bad as the violence both past and threatened are, I cannot help but wonder if this is setting the stage for  renewed and accelerated "New World Religion" calls.  Rich of Medford has written guest columns for us on the past on the United Nations "Alliance of Civilization."  They have a global conference set for this May 18-19, 2015 to be held in Indonesia.  It will have an old, familiar New Age theme:  Unity and Diversity" with the same buzzwords I viewed when first discovering the Movement's existence in 1981:  UNITY AND DIVERSITY because "we live in a GLOBAL VILLAGE".

There will be many attempts to force compromise in a new global pantheon.  Simultaneously, I foresee many attempts to play the old time honored games of "Watch the Fundamentalists Run" in an attempt to use as Exhibit 1 of claimed hysteria provoking excesses from more easily panicked members of the Christian Community into creating a legal and moral justification for the long claimed New Age religious goal where all would say, "Blessed be THY God" rather than "Blessed be MY God."  In the best Karen Armstrong advocated position, they would have us bow to each other's gods in the New Age pantheon as a condition of being deserving to live in the New World Order.

Of course, the "Internet of Everything" for which drums are also now furiously beat would help keep tabs -- not to mention the drones.

The Christian community, particularly the Evangelical Christian community has been sold out for a long time.  Glenn Clark founder of Camps Farthest Out wrote glowingly of the New Age in a book he wrote during World War II.  Glenn Clark was a spiritual director to Mrs. Aymar Johnson (Marian Johnson) who held yearly New Years' Day retreats for "The Twelve."  It now appears very clear from my recent intense reseach which I've been discussing at length on my Saturday morning internet program that "The Twelve" were Christian in name only -- their roster was a panel of nearly all mystics and part of the gang was Roland Gammon.  Marian Clark checked her "guidance" to take a large home on Embassy Row in Washington, D.C. to be "God's Living Room".  This was where Abraham ("Abram") Vereide got his start.  Both Harald Bredesen and Doug Coe successively worked for Abram Vereide.  Paul Nathaniel Temple, the co-founder and chief financial benefactor of Institute for Noetic Sciences, was part of the core group of that organization since 1944.  Although he is now in his 90s, he still writes very large checks annually for both Fellowship Foundation (C Street Group) as well as his Institute of Noetic Sciences.  I suspect they will play no small role to help "swing the masses into step" as Alice Bailey happily put it in her book, THE EXTERNALISATION OF THE HIERARCHY.  (pages 502-503)

At any rate, much is on my mind and it is difficult to summarize.  I've long delayed my finishing of my series on "The HiJacking of Evangelicalism" both here and on NewswithViews.  I'm now close to completion.  I have recently obtained Glenn Clark's autobiography, A Man's Reach, which confirmed many of my suspicions concerning the origin of the Washington group which was discussed by mystical enough Norman Grubb in his biographical book about Abraham Vereide:  "Modern Viking."  When thoroughly analyzed, one cannot help but think that this group of 12 at least perceived of themselves as "illuminati,"  After reading Clark's THE MAN WHO TAPPED THE SECRETS OF THE UNIVERSE, I don't know what else to believe.  Clark was summoned by eugenist/physician Alexis Carrel to help him find a man who was fully cosmically attuned.  Clark believed he had found them in some of the men that were part of their group of 12 meeting at Marian Johnson's Washington mansion (e.g. Rufus Jones, E. Stanley Jones, and Frank Laubach).  His book was about another he claimed to have discovered,

Thanks for sticking around.  I do the radio program every Saturday morning, 10 a.m. Eastern Time.  I share tremendous amounts of information there during the two hours of programming.  Consider tuning in there as well as staying tuned here.

Happy New Year to all!

CONSTANCE


717 comments:

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Anonymous said...

Christine are you saying that there are instances when Jesus Christ is not able to exorcise a demon? And how do you know so much about this?
Does it take one to know one?

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

anon 9:06

do you speak english? do you read english? did I say anything remotely resembling what you are implying I said?

exorcisms in Jesus' Name can, however, take anything from instant to months of repeated effort.

How do I know? I was living for years with a demonized monster of a woman my biological so called mother, and occult experimentation on both sides of the family and probably back two generations.

the house I spent the last 27 years before I moved to the Sierra foothills had a midnight blue not proper blue giant snake in the attic and a hell mouth outside. The house I grew up in had some kind of problem also.

my own occult experimentation in the 1960s early 1970s didn't help much.

I have been reading up on oddball stuff all my life starting when I was in my late 13th year.

you figure out how I know.

Anonymous said...

"exorcisms in Jesus' Name can, however, take anything from instant to months of repeated effort. "

I asked a question because I do not know about this. Why would it take the Lord months when he has the power to do that instantly?

So you know this first hand?

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

anon 9:44 read up on the exorcism information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorcism_in_the_Catholic_Church#Process_of_the_exorcism

And I have both of Fr. Gabrielle Amorth's books out, Vatican's chief exorcist unless he's retired or died.

Anonymous said...

Superbowl

parablesblog.blogspot.com

February 1 post

Anonymous said...

Dear Christine, Paul and Susanna

This is Physicist. At the risk of irritating all of you I am going to give a little testimony and state one or two conclusions I have reached.

I would describe myself theologically today as a "charismatic evangelical". The word charismatic should be superfluous in that sentence as evangelical means Bible-based and the charismatic aspects of the Christian faith are in the New Testament. But sadly a polarisation exists and many see "charismatic" and "evangelical" as opposed. I don't. As a fairly new Christian I was evangelical - never liberal! - but not charismatic, and I supposed that the evictions of demons recorded in the New Testament were the way the people 2000 years ago described certain psychological phenomena - which Jesus could miraculously heal just like he could heal the physical.

I no longer believe that. I now believe that the demonic does involve a volition that is evil and distinct from the person's will. (I never went to the charismatic extreme of believing that almost anything psychological is to do with the demonic.) I now believe that psychological glitches and the demonic can both be at work together in a person; one, the other, or both.

When an attempted expulsion of a demon fails there are two possible reasons: (1) insufficient faith in the person ministering deliverance; (2) a subtle attachment of the person harboring the demon to the dark gifts which it bestows, deeper than the conscious desire to have it expelled. Reason (1) is stated explicitly in the gospels. Reason (2) is not, although there are hints of it in the tale about the spirit returning with interest.

Deliverance ministry is never a battle between the demonic and the Holy Spirit residing in the person ministering. That would be dualism. Any encounter between God and opposed spirits is a walkover. If the ministry fails, it is for the two reasons stated.

At one time I was interested in hierarchies and structures of demons, to better assist in this ministry. I became disillusioned when each book written by a former occultist-turned-Christian gave different and conflicting information. Today I freely admit that I have no idea of the truth about such things, and it is not necessary to know.

If a man has a track record of success in this ministry then he has the necessary strength of faith. With all respect to Susanna I do not believe it is necessary to be ordained. Faith is all that is needed and I have seen many successes in the "charismatic evangelical" world. If a man of faith cannot shift a demon then almost certainly it is due to a subtle attachment of the person to what the demon can do for him or her: dark gifts such as clairvoyance. Which brings me to Christine. I suspect, based on her testimony on this blog, that something like that is going on with her; and that perhaps her argumentativeness may be related to it. Let those of us who are willing, pray for her. I am.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

Physicist I agree with your post, this is supported by the general reports of ordained and unordained exorcists.

Some people have a gift of exorcism, in an early canon about who needs to be ordained or not, exorcists were not among them because their gift is evident.

Susanna and Physicist, the advantage of ordination is some charism from The Holy Spirit providing backup to the person. But while Greg Reid is not RC or Orthodox, and seems to accept charismatic ministries as okay incl. Katherine Kuhlman, who I always thought seemed witchy when I knew nothing much and who Kurt Koch identified as of this sort of thing, he has a track record for exorcism, and lives on the southern Texas border where there is a lot of occultism going on.

charismaticism tracks to dubious sources. IF one limits this concept to biblical gifts that figure in church maintenance, and discernment of spirits and having dreams from God (not the dream interpretation stuff these people teach) that is one thing. But the whole speaking in tongues, and the idea of a latter days outpouring as per Joel, is wrong, because Peter said this was fulfilled at Pentecost, explaining the tongues actual languages of the hearers.

This was a one off event when The Holy Spirit either entered the Church, or manifested in it.

While a mission field might be expected to see such manifestations, their function is to get the attention of the unbeliever.

I am convinced the entire charismatic scene is a case of fleshly and demonic deception. Especially the hyper charismatics. One of the leaders of the latter claimed he saw The Holy Spirit dancing around (like He's supposed to be visible in presumably human form?!) saying he was very happy because now he could do much more with the church than he used to be able to do.

http://herescope.com has a lot of material on all this.

Assemblies of God has a strong bible focus, so have been able to impose sanity on this stuff, and limited it. They kicked the latter rain/MSOG crew out years ago. But something else, or a warp of the flesh/soul created by contact with it, can be piggy backing with The Holy Spirit limiting it.

http://reflectionsfromthewall.net has a lot of personal experience of a woman who came out of this. Some events described are very creepy. One of them got my attention. Seems she saw at one get together a child running around....who had the looks of an adult man, but not like a normal midget or dwarf. This set off alarm bells.

In Orthodox iconography, the baby Jesus is always shown as an adult seeming very small person, to teach the viewer that He is much older than He appeared, actually older than His mother. The charismatic crew has been targeting Orthodoxy, and made a very little inroad, mostly this doesn't fly. But such a manifestation might be an effort to lure such, maybe someone was visiting who was Orthodox or learning and this was to lure them or make them think they had some confirmation of the legitimacy of this.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

cont. in my experience, which granted is limited, I've never known anyone who spoke in tongues and was much worthwhile. The final experience that set me totally against tongues, came from an acquaintance of 30 years ago, who I caught up with on the phone.

This gal hadn't changed in all those years. What does that tell you? I have been through many changes and am still a work in progress. On the phone we talked about pretrib vs. posttrib and she said if posttrib is the case what's the point (I assume she meant what's the point in being Christian if not under some special protection), and when I pointed out being a martyr brings glory to God she argues He already has all the glory anyway and doesn't need more. And without any shame, told me how she had refused to help dig in the dirt with her sister in the veggie garden and then didn't like it her sister wouldn't give her any of the veggies she grew, and this gal is into the health scene. Started with Salem Kirban she still has a study bible he published.

Well, we talked about some JWs, and she wanted me to pray with her over the phone for them. In Orthodoxy there is a discipline that you do not pray with heretics. (praying for them is another matter.) I thought quickly, after all her core belief set is trinitarian and Jesus is God Incarnate, died for our sins and rose from the dead, so does this matter? I decided to stay with the discipline.

So instead of joining her, taking turns talking and saying amen together, I prayed for them on my own addressed Jesus asked Him to save them and said Amen, and I could hear her mumbling (maybe tongues) while I did this.

Boy was she pissed, didn't exactly scream and yell, but she had wanted us to agree, I said we were agreed that they need to convert to Christianity, and she said no, that we should be OF ONE MIND, and that's when I realized that she didn't mean these things biblically, like you have a flat tire and we both agree it should be fixed, we are therefore of one mind about its need to be fixed, but rather SHE WAS AFTER A HIVE MIND EFFECT.

And as she said this, I could see her. My phone has NO video capability to talk to each other (as distinct from going on camera mode and taking a picture, I'm not sure it does video then, the point is, this was NOT PHYSICAL.) and I could see her face peeking at me from the phone, through a offwhite dense fluid, like in Resident Evil when the zombie floats through the water up to the glass and you can see it partly obscured by the murk till it is up against the glass.

The edges of the fluid in her case were a darker yellowish. the impression was like some kind of decayed body fluid old pus not congealed or something. I have had experiences with this sort of thing before and I knew what was going on.

That's when I knew she has a demon. A while later, it was pestering me at home, so I texted her to stop praying for or at me and called her out on it. No calls or emails or texts from her since then.

Back when Pat Robertson was running for president she was gung ho, she also worked as a counsellor on the phone for him, and had the slain in the spirit experience somewhere, and the (un)holy laughter phenomenon. Before working for him someone of his prayed over the phone over her. Mostly she is running on her own, but prays in tongues as private worship. At least she does adhere to The Bible. But something is VERY wrong.

Anonymous said...

Christine do you not think that the post at 5.25 am might be relevant to how you are a work in progress?

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

anon 6:53

yes and no. For instance, there are two forms of manifestation or influence (attempted) that I have run into. One is heavy dark and scary, but is much preferable because more obvious.

The other is an icky particulate mind scattering golden light, with a brassy quality and bits of red to it. (while the fluid I complained of is not particulate but more solid, it is still obviously evil. More like an accomplished manifestation while the particulate might draw together to get more solid. I had a lot pouring into the house, black and slatey from a corner when I lived in Palo Alto and started looking for a house blessing to stop this.)

The yellow stuff, occasionally a blazing white light that again, if analyzed, is essentially particulate, like being a cloud with your headlights on sort of, and obscures rather than reveals.

True light lets you see things better rather than blinding you. Of course God Himself is unapproachable light, being too bright for us to stand, but since He doesn't manifest this to us what I am talking about is not about Him.

Now, the latter form was worse, because like a damp fog it adheres to you and can permeate you. If you don't like it, the feel is revolting.

It took a while for me to get pure enough to be able to back it off like I could the other stuff, though I have just run from the other stuff also.

So there was some progress there, that I got more pure so could resist it. Some time after these experiences, I read online from a person defending Masonic luciferianism as not of satan, that lucifer is latinized helel, "the golden glitter of a king's robe," and I thought BINGO! that's what it is what the evil golden glitter stuff I've been seeing is.

The times I had seen this on a person instead of a place, every one had some demon involvement discovered in conversation with them, excepting only those that I didn't talk with, so probably true of them also. One such person I didn't talk with, I found out about later.

An example of how screwed up Theosophy and New Age ideas about the aura are, is that a golden aura shows spiritual superior evolution. Eh, what KIND of spirituality?

Anonymous said...

Christine this is Anonymous of 6.16 am. People do not routinely report the kind of thing you are speaking of nd I wonder if you are subject to illusions induced in the optical sensory part of your brain by a resident demon and that some of the stuff at 5.25 am applies to you personally. I wish you well.

Anonymous said...

"Christine. I suspect, based on her testimony on this blog, that something like that is going on with her; and that perhaps her argumentativeness may be related to it. Let those of us who are willing, pray for her. I am."

What you state is exactly what I believe could be going on too. Thanks for sharing that insight Physicist.

Christine needs to ask herself if she really wants deliverance from Jesus or not. It boils down there in first things first.
Remember Jesus and the invalid in John 5:1-16? Jesus asks him point blank if he wanted to be healed. He answered yes but thereafter Jesus warned him to go and sin no more unless something worse comes upon him. All the superstitious stuff that Christine posts here is coming from things that she clings to (with unrelenting argument and aggression) and needs deliverance from. This is why when she talks bible it is somewhere skewed and not bearing witness to the Spirit of the Holy Word.

And I have prayed about this also. This much I do know.... when Jesus wins everybody wins. I pray Christine is willing to win too, and goes before the Lord to settle this very deep issue inside herself once and for all.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

" nd I wonder if you are subject to illusions induced in the optical sensory part of your brain"

these are not optical in usual sense. Its not like seeing a physical object, though on rare occasions it is almost visible.

these aren't illusions because they follow patterns of what is around that I may not always know is around.

Orthodox monks who have had some experience with impressions like this report that the red gold stuff is demonic. I read that long after I ran into this.

Frankly, I think it is possibly what The Bible refers to as "discernment of spirits," which would likely take various forms.

On one occasion, a cat wouldn't step out the door, he stood there staring at the doorstep like something was there, I took a look and it was a yellowish blob, Mike could see it too. Finally the cat made a rush past it. These things are always highly transparent. Almost not there.

These things usually go away after a few rounds of telling them to leave in Jesus' Name.

I pray all the time. There's even times when I am asleep and dreaming and I start to pray usually wake up pretty quick after that.

Over the years, I have learned to identify and get rid of objects I'd acquired from family or wherever that just don't feel right. In one case it was a book I ordered, real good information and written from a perspective of total opposition to it. But I had to get rid of it. And months later I found the packing slip that came with it, and got rid of that and something left with it.

Study up on the exorcism subject, and spiritual warfare as a subject.

Now, a lot of people are just hallucinating or lying, but here's something interesting. When a creepy sort who claimed to be charismatic but was into feri witchcraft had lived next to me in a hotel, and he moved out and another guy moved into a room he had been in briefly, most of the time he was farther away, that second guy ran into some spirit pretending to be Jesus, figured out the deception and got rid of it. Why the corellation here if there wasn't something real?

Susanna said...

Physicist:

Re: If a man has a track record of success in this ministry then he has the necessary strength of faith. With all respect to Susanna I do not believe it is necessary to be ordained.

Just to clarify;

When I said " The priest who performed the exorcism was an officially appointed exorcist whose name is Father Jose Antonio Fortea," I was not only speaking about a specific instance of demonic possession, but I was also speaking strictly in terms of Roman Catholic discipline according to which a Roman Catholic priest - unlike non-Catholic clergymen - is required to obtain official permission from his religious superior/local ordinary (i.e. local Bishop ) before conducting a formal exorcism. It was not in any way my intention to assess the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of non-ordained persons when conducting exorcisms. Quite frankly, I don't know enough to be able to assess the non-Catholic Christian situation concerning such matters.

Nevertheless, I have never held the belief, that it is necessary to be sacramentally ordained a priest in order to expel demons. What is necessary is that it be done exclusively in the name of Jesus Christ whether the person doing the expelling is ordained or not.

It is my understanding that Pentecostals are particularly likely to conduct exorcisms but they are not the only ones to do so by any means. Many Fundamentalist Christians do as well. Unfortunately most mainline Protestants don't, as far as is known, although it is possible that they are beginning to become more aware of the reality of Satanic activity vis a vis the work of people like Scott Peck, who is said to be popular in mainline Protestant circles, and who seems to be helping there - although his purported Christianity seems a tad New-Agey to me in spite of his compelling book PEOPLE OF THE LIE.

Surprisingly, Peck and his writings have had a strong influence on many Christians. Contemporary Christian magazine said his book People of the Lie is “enthralling, frustrating, controversial, paradoxical, revolutionary — People of the Lie may well be one of the most significant new works in recent memory” (emphasis in original).

Not only has Peck been praised in the media, he is also a frequent speaker in Christian churches, as well as in New Age meetings. Since cowriting The Less Traveled Road and the Bible I have discovered that various Christian schools use Peck’s books in classes and Christian counseling centers give them to counselees.

Christians have not been very discerning regarding Peck’s teachings. Simply because Peck uses Christian terminology, or offers some legitimate solutions, many Christians have embraced him and his books without reservation. Using that same criteria, however, Mormon material should be accepted because it has helpful information on the family. Likewise, Jehovah’s Witness literature should be accepted because it argues against materialistic evolution. Certainly as much discernment and caution should be exercised with Peck’s works as is used for cultic material.


http://www.equip.org/article/m-scott-peck-traveling-down-the-wrong-road/#christian-books-3
_______________________________

One example in which a possessed mainline Protestant (Lutheran)youth from St. Louis, Missouri was referred to a Roman Catholic priest by his pastor Rev. Luther Schulze after he was unable to help the youth who inspired the book and the movie entitled THE EXORCIST.

I doubt it helped that Rev.
Schulze had long been interested in parapsychology and even reportedly referred the boy to a parapsychologist. It sounds to me - in view of your comment concerning the failure of exorcisms and deliverance prayers - that in this particular case, the Lutheran pastor may have been harboring his own "subtle attachments."

cont...

Susanna said...

cont...


At first, his family thought he might have been plagued by the spirit of a recently deceased aunt, who had introduced the boy to the Ouija board. The family consulted physicians, psychiatrists and a minister from their Lutheran church. They grew desperate as the situation worsened.

“They go to Rev. Luther Miles Schulze, a Lutheran minister who happened to be greatly interested in the paranormal, as it was called at that time, and he said, ‘Go to a Catholic priest; the Catholics know about this kind of thing,’” Allen said.

(Incidentally, Schulze later spoke at a meeting of a Washington, D.C., branch of the Society for Parapsychology about this case. That information made its way to the press, and the published Schulze interview led to the leaking of the exorcism story by Catholic sources. Studying at Georgetown at that time, William Peter Blatty read the story in the Washington Post and years later used it as inspiration for The Exorcist.)


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/391680/behind-scenes-20th-century-exorcism-michael-r-strain
______________________________

I am not in any way suggesting that the Lutheran pastor would have necessarily been incapable of performing an exorcism on account of not having been sacramentally ordained. I am simply citing one example of the fact that mainline Protestants tend not to view demonic possession in the same way as other Christians and therefore tend not to perform exorcisms - or successful ones when they do perform them - for a variety of reasons - one of which is said to be that according to some mainline Protestant communions, miracles as they happened in the biblical times has ceased - this view being based on their interpretation of 1 Cor. 13.

Other reasons include modernism and "higher criticism" which wound up jettisoning much of the miracles in the Bible as implausible, including exorcisms.

Of course, mainline Protestants don't exactly have a monopoly on modernism and "higher criticism."
Roman Catholicism has had its fair share of modernists and "higher critics" like Hans Kung and others of his ilk......

Here is the exorcism to which I am referring.

EXORCISM OF ROLAND DOE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorcism_of_Roland_Doe
_______________________________

The following is a FAQ from the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and is but one example of the mainline Protestant position concerning demons, possession and exorcism.

Q: Does the LCMS hold an official position as to the existence of demonic possession? Does the LCMS retain the Rite of Exorcism as practiced in the Roman and Eastern Orthodox churches? Does the LCMS have special clergy assigned to this task?

A: The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod certainly believes in the existence of Satan and of demonic beings, and individual LCMS pastors have participated from time to time in rites of exorcism. The LCMS has no "official position" on "demonic possession," however, nor does it subscribe officially to any formal rite of exorcism or have "special clergy assigned to this task."

http://www.lcms.org/faqs/lcmsviews
______________________________

If you have anything you would like to add to this, by all means feel free to do so.

You needn't worry in the least about "irritating" me. :-)

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

"the fact that mainline Protestants tend not to view demonic possession in the same way as other Christians and therefore tend not to perform exorcisms - or successful ones when they do perform them - for a variety of reasons - one of which is said to be that according to some mainline Protestant communions, miracles as they happened in the biblical times has ceased - this view being based on their interpretation of 1 Cor. 13."

There is no logical connection between cessationism and refusal to do exorcism. the devil and his activities are not "miracles" and it is the spectacular stuff, tongues and prophecies, that will be done away with. There is no reason to assume exorcism wouldn't be needed or no possible to do after that.

No one argues that teaching, administration and helps are done away with now, but these are also gifts of The Holy Spirit.

Susanna said...

Christine,

Re:There is no logical connection between cessationism and refusal to do exorcism. the devil and his activities are not "miracles" and it is the spectacular stuff, tongues and prophecies, that will be done away with. There is no reason to assume exorcism wouldn't be needed or no possible to do after that.

You are missing the point.

I am not talking theology here, I am talking about a modern historical trend - regardless of whether the theological underpinnings of said trend are valid or not.

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

I understand that, but the trend itself is irrational and unbiblical. I think people just take a few ideas and run with them and don't really see how something can be partly true and partly false. They would if they compared Scripture with Scripture and kept track of all that was said.

Susanna said...

Whether or not the trend is irrational or unbiblical, the trend exists. That was my point.

Craig said...

Physicist,

Given what you wrote earlier, I thought you might find the following article of interest. This author argues – I think persuasively – against the notion of “territorial spirits,” by examining more closely Daniel 10, which is used as ‘proof’ of the doctrine by the likes of C. Peter Wagner, his followers, and others:

http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/daniel10.pdf

After looking at the Hebrew and associated context in Daniel, as well as OT usage, Stevens states that the princes of Persia and Greece were demonic princes established over their respective nations or empires. Their intentions were malevolent, standing in opposition to the angels Gabriel and Michael, the latter being one of the “chief princes” and defender of the Jewish nation (p 418). However, these demons were not constricted by geographic boundary; rather, they were influencing or controlling the sociopolitical climates of the respective regimes over which they exerted control or influence. Of course, naturally, geographic boundaries of empires would expand and contract as the empire gained or lost territory, thereby rendering dubious the idea of a specified territory for demons. In conclusion, the author writes:

Several factors related to the use of the term rc^ [ED: garbled - Hebrew term usually translated as “prince”) in Daniel 10:13, 20 confirm the view that the designations “prince of Persia” and “prince of Greece” refer to angelic (demonic) beings. These were not mere human princes nor were they “territorial spirits”; they were powerful national angels or “empire spirits” who opposed God’s carrying out His purposes through His people Israel. While Cyrus and his son Cambyses opposed the reconstruction of the Jewish temple in the terrestrial sphere, spiritual warfare was being waged in the heavenlies as the angel Gabriel countered the malevolent influence of the angelic prince of Persia on the political situation on earth. In this celestial warfare Daniel’s prayer was not without significance. The angel Gabriel was sent to Daniel in direct response to his prayer (v. 12)... (p 431; bold added).

Anonymous said...

Oh Constance, how long have you endured such opression?

Looks like quite some time. Think back to when it began then you can rebuke it.

Praying for you.

***

Anonymous said...

Craig: I have my own rant concerning Peter Wagner's theology of territorial spirits, so it is nice to read someone else's. Here is mine - Physicist

No believer recorded in scripture, not even Jesus while on earth, prayed against spiritual strongholds. The ‘prince of Persia’ episode in Daniel (ch.10) implies that battle takes place in the spiritual realms, but scriptural precedent indicates that this is for angels to fight, not humans. Many believers are recorded in scripture as having had visions into the world of the spirit, but all were witnesses; none is recorded as taking up the armour of God (Ephesians 6) whilst there. When people pray “against the principality of secularism/Islam/witchcraft/leviathan” etc, what are they actually doing, beyond declaring that they are against certain things? Let us be cautious, for even the senior angel Michael let God rebuke Satan rather than do it in his own strength (Jude 9). The ways in which we are to combat secular humanism (for example) are to witness and lobby against secularist evils, and convert secular people. We are humans and we fight the forces of evil as they manifest among humans.

In the same way, there is nothing in the missionary letters, or in Christ’s commands to his followers, about praying against the stronghold over a town as part of missionary work. Of course, it is good to pray for a town and its people, and to ask God to cause Masonic halls (etc) to close down. If people wish to do this while ‘prayer walking’ the area then they are free to do so. But praying against territorial spirits would be prominent in scripture if we were meant to do it, since it relates to the core Christian activity of evangelism – yet there is no mention of it. That is because Christ’s kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36). Until he returns, his kingdom is the hearts of believers. Believers’ property must be cleared of objects designed for occult purposes (Deut 7:25-6), but our prayer efforts should not become diverted.

The well-known ‘Transformations’ video, about the effects of evangelising certain places, has a territorial theology and was made by a disciple of Wagner. Much good has been done in those places, although it has become clear that the video overstates the changes. (I asked a pastor I met who was from Cali.) I believe that the improvements stem from evangelistic effort and prayers for the people and place, not prayers against Godless worldviews or local idols.

Anonymous said...


"I am convinced the entire charismatic scene is a case of fleshly and demonic deception"

Though I don't entirely disagree with that statement in the main, I find your attitude typically self-righteous of you again, Christine. You move quite gingerly away from your own issues when truth comes close (but love that they give you the spotlight you demand) and go looking to drum up something about someone or something else (in this instance charismatic believers). Sure, put a 'bandaid' on your own issues (if even that) and go for a scalpel (but many times more like a machete) on someone else. It's your method of operation.

In the general sense anybody can find something to find fault with any denomination, but my hope is that you will go quietly to a private place (and away from this blog for a time at least), to take care of your very deep spiritual need. Not what this blog is for and once again your crappy unresolved life takes the forefront. Just what you crave, Chritine and it is evidently driven by something quite creepy.

So I won't be holding my breath waiting for you to get real.

Anonymous said...

So you have Mary Christine Erikson posts in 2007 (at least) on your blog and you slam me for printing Mary's full name. I see how you are, interesting.

lol
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Susanna said...

Craig and Physicist,

As a Catholic, I was never taught anything about "territorial spirits," but what you both have to say about it is quite interesting and definitely something to be very cautious about.

Indeed, we have to be very careful not to presume to imagine that we know more than we know when the so-called "knowledge" concerns demons and their activities apart from what the Scriptures reveal.

Physicist, you probably nailed it when you pointed out that this business of "territorial spirits" is "for angels to fight."

If we are to speak of demonic "strongholds," moreover, the ultimate demonic "stronghold" is Hell - which the demons carry around with them wherever they go - regardless of whether or not they choose to play the role of squatter anywhere in this world.







Anonymous said...

Susanna, I was with you right up to your your penultimate paragraph at 6.24pm. But Hell - gehenna - is not ruled by demons and fallen angels. The latter, at least, will suffer there as helplessly as men who reject God. Matthew 25:41 makes this clear. To suggest that Satan rules hell and God rules heaven has always seemed to me a touch dualistic, although doubtless inadvertently so.

Physicist

Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

anon 5:23

"In the general sense anybody can find something to find fault with any denomination, "

charismaticism is not a denomination, though a few denominations are charismatic. It is a set of practices and beliefs, which has gotten into a great many denominations, and has a notion of "tarrying" like at Jerusalem meaning a passive mental state of acceptance which Jesse Penn-Lewis in War Against the Saints points out is like the effort to develop or practice mediumship. It may not use that language now, but that is what it is.

It also makes use of the contemplative prayer lectio divina from medieval RC that is wrongly identified with the more protestant resembling style of prayer focussed on something in The Bible and Bible reading in order to apply it that The Desert Fathers did.

This has already been attacked correctly enough on this blog.

This doesn't evade my problems, it applies what I've learned by experience to judge the fruits of the practice.

Wagner is one of the New Apostolic Reformation hyper charismatic aka MSOG crew. Their territorial spirits stuff doesnt' have much visible result of improvement after these are supposedly cast out.

I agree if there are such things, they are for angels to fight. Wagner has confused the issue of haunting of localities with the issue of possible haunting so to speak of entire cities and national segments.

Part of the reason these people are always having to fight demons is that their practices make them vulnerable to demons in the first place.

Another argument I have read against territorial spirits, is that this ony was the case before The Incarnation Crucifixion and Resurrection, and that since then Jesus has broken their power.

Craig,

I used to experience something that would seem like this in operation, but because the geography and the political interest were the same because of our modern non fluid borders, it would seem like "territorial spirits." It was not exactly limited to one county, and would weaken in the last city of the main country driven through, and break exactly at the border. I figured it was because of the involvement in devil worship by the county supervisors and sheriff and some others.

Anonymous said...

"This doesn't evade my problems, it applies what I've learned by experience to judge the fruits of the practice. "

You would be (hopefully?) making big strides by now in dealing with your (made all too obvious postings about yourself) problems if you spent at least half as much time judging the fruits of your own practice as you do in your incessant posting trying to educate and correct everyone else on theirs.

Craig said...

Physicist,

Ephesians 6:10-18 contains all the Bible-believing Christian needs with respect to spiritual warfare. Individually, we are commanded to “stand,” the battle being in the heavenlies and not against flesh and blood. Wagner and his cronies have conflated “spiritual warfare” (stand, pray) and deliverance (exorcism).

Unfortunately, this idea that there are “territorial spirits” is pretty much accepted doctrine by most Christians I know, even those who don’t subscribe to the Wagnerian model, even those who refute it. This is one of the reasons I think this is an extremely important issue, for if it can be shown that the notion of territorial spirits is false, then the entire basis for Wagner’s and Otis’ stance on “spiritual warfare” falls apart.

As for Otis’ “Transformations,” all one has to do is check current crime stats for Hemet, CA – one of cities in which, purportedly, the territorial demons were ‘bound’ – to see that the claims are not just overstated, but patently false, as, on the main, crime stats are up (last I checked, anyway). That, of course, doesn’t mean individuals didn’t come to a saving faith, despite the dubious nature of this “spiritual warfare.”

Craig said...

...I meant to add that I agree with your post, and use most of the same logic in refuting this false doctrine of Wagner

Anonymous said...

"Wagner and his cronies have conflated “spiritual warfare” (stand, pray) and deliverance (exorcism)."

Agreed.


And this is an interesting word:
con·flate
kənˈflāt/
verb
past tense: conflated; past participle: conflated
combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one.
"the urban crisis conflates a number of different economic and social issues"
synonyms: mix, blend, fuse, unite, integrate

***** "the plot gets weighed down when the writers conflate too many issues into one episode"

Christine has been quite successful doing just that to bog this blog.

The blog needs to be delivered.

Anonymous said...

The god of this blog is uninterested in unclogging it. I can't decide if that is an interesting story or rather boring. I am leaning towards the latter.

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Anonymous said...

http://cumbey.blogspot.com/2012/12/learning-to-love-big-brother-you-are.html?commentPage=2


Lol!!!!!
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Anonymous said...

Christine, honestly your behavior is that proverb that speaks of a person acting like a dog who returns to it's own vomit.
You can't get enough of your own regurgitations.
And by what was linked in the above post to this blog from a few years ago you have been going at this pathetic business for quite a long while. Just sick and wrong.

I don't understand why she continues to be enabled for this?

Anonymous said...

Craig,

There's only one Wagner worth listening to...

Physicist

Craig said...

Physicist,

I thought you might pick that up with my use of "Wagnerian."

Craig said...

Christine,

You wrote, "I am convinced the entire charismatic scene is a case of fleshly and demonic deception"

It’s this sort of sweeping generalization that destroys your credibility. Strictly speaking, a charismatic is one who does not believe the ‘sign gifts’ have yet ceased – a position I hold, which I find Biblical. That is, a charismatic is continuationist rather than cessationist with respect to the gifts (charismata) enumerated in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11.

The difference between the continuationist and cessationist centers on an interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:8-13, specifically τὸ τέλειον (to teleiov), meaning the perfect, the complete, the mature, the fully developed. The cessationist understands this as referring to either the Apostolic era, the completion of the Canon of the NT, the maturity of the Church, and the like – none of which I find persuasive. The continuationist understands this as a reference to Christ’s return (cf. v 12), a view that makes the most sense to me.

Then the question is how to understand the gifts listed in chapter 12: Are there individuals with gifts of healing or miraculous powers as opposed to those with the gift to distinguish between spirits, e.g.? This is where I find Gordon Fee’s position, as stated in his commentary on First Corinthians to be helpful. Fee notes that Paul is describing the situation of the Corinthian church, not prescribing method:

…Paul’s argument is completely ad hoc, reflecting the Corinthian situation itself; therefore his own concern is not with instruction about “spiritual gifts” as such, their number and kinds. Indeed, the list of nine items in vv. 8-10 is neither caregully worked out or exhaustive; it merely representative of the diversity of the Spirit’s manifestations. Paul’s concern here is to offer a considerable list so that they will stop being singular in their own emphasis.

All of this suggests not only that we do not have here a systematic discussion of “spiritual gifts,” but also that there is some doubt as to whether the apostle himself had precise and identifiably different “gifts” in mind when he wrote these words…

Given the flexibility of language noted above [ED: in the immediate context], one should probably not make too much of the different words used to describe the activities of the divine Persons: “gifts,” “ministries” or “services,” workings.” Most likely they are simply three different ways of looking at what in v. 7 Paul calls “manifestations” of the Spirit…
(pp 585-587).

No doubt there are those in the NAR, hyper-charismatics who are acting in the flesh or are playing with the demonic; however, there are legitimate continuations, to include Fee.

Anonymous said...


##################
<3 LOVE <3LOVE <3LOVE <3LOVE
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Celebrating FOUR years of Mary Christine Erikson's posts on Cumbey and Erickson Clog of a Blog
#######################
Feb 5th 2011- A Blast from the Past- Bloggers In Love- Let’s Look Bank With Nostalgia to One of Mary’s Old Posts now....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Blogger Christine Erikson (aka Justina) said...

This sympathy for the devil crap
was full blown in The Process Church
ideology. they thought that since
you are to love your enemies, God
must love the devil and even came
to some kind of agreement or peace
with him, and they as a group were
in three segments. The luciferians
were the party crowd, the satanists
were the blood and guts crowd, and
the Jehovaites were the hairshirt
and gloom crowd.

Process came about through an odd
relationship between one of the gals
in the Profumo scandal, and the
founder who was a scientology
squirrel, that's what they call
someone who takes some of their
stuff and runs with it.

Satanist groups like the 3P and
Manson and of course Berkowitz'
circle, which included powerful
and respectable people he is still
too afraid of to name names, since
they have threatened his mother,
but he is now a Christian, had
contact with or cross fertilized
or derived from the Process Church
of the Final Judgement.
When the spirits attracted by such
stuff get there way with someone,
all hell breaks loose. At worst,
the human sacrifice and rape stuff.
At best, if the person is too much
into bliss and nonviolence and
bright happy la-la, a crippling
of their ability to resist evil, a
promulgation of such crippling
doctrines that web site is doing,
and probably channeling and
empowering the obvious evil stuff
without knowing it, setting the
stage for more.

1:44 PM

……………………………………………………

“This has been a Bloggers joined as One in Unity and Trolling” Moment
Constance Cumbey + Mary Christine Erikson= Team Blogging since 2011
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Anonymous said...

"No doubt there are those in the NAR, hyper-charismatics who are acting in the flesh or are playing with the demonic; however, there are legitimate continuations,"

How I see it too and the abuses are very often pointed out much discussed here. That's good.
What is awful is the one who is so critical of everyone else's faith who is not of her stripe. And the by the display here (excessive, obsessive-you can fill in a lot more to characterize her behavior---for absolute years now---) one has to wonder why this is allowed.
How are the charismatics, Christine is so critical of, acting more in the flesh and demonic, than the 'resident plague' we know her to be, in her abuse of this blog by her favorite topics of vampires, auras, chakras, life on Mars, mother hatred, experiments with new age thought and doctrine and on and on stretching into years of this and worst-her teaching us a 'thing or ten' about the bible of which she has proven in her testimony repeatedly that she does not intend to truly believe it in obeying what is says?

Now that I know how long this has gone on I can see why she sticks to her story that she is the life of this blog. It really is about her. And it is no wonder that so many have left here, to post helpful info no longer, because the message is lost in Chritine's manic swirl.

Anonymous said...

"And it is no wonder that so many have left here, to post helpful info no longer, because the message is lost in Chritine's manic swirl."

exactly
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Susanna said...

Physicist 6:38

I see your point. No dualism intended. I meant it in the sense of Matthew 25:41 "The devil and HIS angels" - which indicates that the angels regard satan as their chief.

It is God who ultimately rules Hell which He originally created for the devil and HIS angels.


But when all is said and done, one thing is certain; before Hell is a "place" or anything else, it is first and foremost a state of being involving a definitive and irrevocable rejection of God forever.

Richard said...

Mamma mia, this Erikson is bonkers!

Anonymous said...



"he stood there staring at the doorstep like something was there, I took a look and it was a yellowish blob, Mike could see it too."


Maybe, Christine, you should take some time away from the computer and just do the normal thing......you know..normal stuff...like clean your house...


Anonymous said...

Oh, do clean up that custard Mary! A clean house means a tidy mind! Firstly though, think about cleaning the inside of your abode... Which means repentance and getting rid of the res. witch!

Craig said...

Obama Condemns Those Who Seek to 'Hijack Religion'

At today's Prayer Breakfast, Obama blasts ISIS, stating, "no god condones terror". But, he also suggested that all people of faiths [should] show humility about their beliefs and reject the idea that "God speaks only to us and doesn't speak to others."

President Barack Obama on Thursday condemned those who seek to use religion as a rationale for carrying out violence around the world. "No god condones terror," he said.

"We are summoned to push back against those who would distort our religion for their nihilistic ends," Obama said at the National Prayer Breakfast.

He singled out the Islamic State group in Iraq and Syria, calling the militants a "death cult," as well as those responsible for last month's attacks in Paris and deadly assault on a school in Pakistan...

Obama had a more nondenominational message for the audience that also included prominent leaders of non-Christian faiths. The president said that while religion is a source for good around the world, people of all faiths have been willing to "hijack religion for their own murderous ends."

"Unless we get on our high horse and think that this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ," Obama said. "In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ."

"So it is not unique to one group or one religion," Obama said. "There is a tendency in us, a simple tendency that can pervert and distort our faith."

Obama called for all people of faiths to show humility about their beliefs and reject the idea that "God speaks only to us and doesn't speak to others."


Cathy said...

Pope Francis and Lord of the World


http://insidethevatican.com/news/newsflash/letter-5-2015-editorial

Anonymous said...

Susanna,

I take hell being prepared for "the devil and his angels" to mean that, when the time of judgement comes for Satan and those angels loyal to him, they will all end up suffering helplessly in hell.

Physicist

Anonymous said...

Cathy, that was terribly interesting. Thanks ...but I am not sure what to make of it.

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Anonymous said...

"Pope Francis Makes Horned-Hand Sign

" It is similar to the sign for I Love you, but Helen Keller, who developed sign language, was into Theosophy (founded by Satanist Blavatsky), the satanic group that Krishnamurti rejected, so it actually means 'I Love You Satan' (The first social and religious association for deaf people was founded by Abbe de L'Epee, a French Catholic Jesuit priest, in Paris). Who would pick a very old satanic sign as the sign for I Love You? Hardly coincidental unless you believe in the tooth fairy. "

www.galatiansfour.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

I is the pinky and the pointer finger and thumb make an L. As much as I dislike the Bushes, I think they are doing a TX long horn when they do it with the thumb up on the finger. I am concerned about Jesuits and the Pope supporting global warming junk science, but the I love you Satan is more than I can chew, not buying that one galations four.

Four the record Keller supporters say she was a believer but she was influenced by the lefty educrats who are new age gurus. I doubt she knew they were Lucifarians.

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Also John Taylor Gatyo promoted student run classrooms like Bill Ayers and most collectivists do.

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Anonymous said...

Anon 9:49 PM,

You sound about as convincing as Christine. I'll let you and others do your own research... Not working for the Jesuits are you?

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Anon 12 said...

Paul

As of this writing there were 648 posts on this thread and, I wanted to let you know that two of your posts were two of the best in the entire thread.

There were other informative posts and as one Anon previously stated that this should not be a blog about preaching, conversion, etc- I wanted to recognize your posts to Christina in which you talked about your regret in how you had handled previous posts and how some were too harsh in their responses. I have spoken up a few times, not so much to stick up for Christina but, to address some of the hateful responses.

I was going to post this a few days ago but was hesitant as it is definitely off topic.

Your posts both inspired me and stuck with me the last several days. I have never met you, don't know you and wouldn't know who you were if I bumped into you on the street but, in my mind it certainly must be God for your posts to affect me in such a positive way.

Nice example you set for those of us who still have trouble controlling the tongue.

God Bless.

Anonymous said...

10:52

point well taken.

thx.
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Anonymous said...

Most welcome 8:56 AM. Glad I could be of service in helping to usher you back onto the straight and narrow.
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Anonymous said...

:)
it is ever too easy to stray from it....how weak we can be..
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Anonymous said...

Absolutely Anon 10:16 AM, absolutely! This place looks rather clean today (with the absence of Mary's vomit) doesn't it! :) Have a great day and good job exposing her. How dare she use your 3 star signature, and as for continually harassing you even after you'd thrice kindly requested and required her not to... what a New Age nerve she's got! Keep up the good work, it's tiring I know but it'll pay off eventually! :)

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paul said...

Wow thank you Anon12.
I'm going to ice-down my head now.

God bless you.

Anonymous said...

11:17

I can't thank u enough 4 that. All the glory to God.

My money was returned that was charged illegally from Mary's area. My key was returned as well. The key was in the same place this morning that we looked many times.

It is tiresome but I am committed. It's okay, we can improve our stance with honest effort. I am asking for 3am wake up calls for bad dreams to end now, that's getting old.

It is hard to tell my own sin from outside attacks, nevermind confession and prayer work for both problems.

ok back to Constance's work only, please God.
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Anonymous said...

http://thefederalist.com/2015/01/26/pope-francis-is-a-leftist-and-must-be-called-out/

Catherine

Anonymous said...

Anyone who wants Christine Erikson's current address can trawl through her postings here because I remember well that she once freely gave it saying she had nothing to hide. (This would be after the Palo Alto house was sold according to what she said above.)

Anon 12 said...

Physicist

Can you touch on the latest news concerning the big bust in detecting gravitational waves from the Big Bang?

Sorry this is way off topic, but I have become very interested in the last few years in anything related to the cosmos, reading topics voraciously almost on a daily basis.

Just curious if you are able to breakdown this latest news for some of us that may be interested.

Marko said...

Greetings all,

Thought I'd stop by and ask for prayer for God to continue to work in our community (Northern Indiana).

Time to Revive has come to our area, and it's called reviveINDIANA. (reviveindiana.org) What God is doing here is amazing - many people are turning their lives over to Him... the harvest here is RIPE and there are many hearts ready to receive the Gospel.

My prayer also is that I may find a way to be a part of this move of God.

Sadly, we all must be wary of "revival" events these days, as there are "false" revivals going on out there, but this seems real. Just watch some of the videos at the website above to see what I mean.

What is happening is that area churches of all kinds are working together to reach the lost. Amish/Mennonite, Baptist, Missionary Church, Pentecostals, "black" churches and "white" churches getting together for the first time - it's pretty awesome to see the unity among the true brothers and sisters in Christ as they unite for one purpose - to save the lost.

THIS is the kind of unity we need MORE of!

Thanks for your prayers!

Marko said...

Here's a good writeup of reviveINDIANA in the local paper:

http://www.elkharttruth.com/living/faith/2015/02/05/Revive-Indiana-brings-northern-Indiana-churches-together-for-1.html#comments

Or click HERE.

Marko said...

A better link Here.

The one in my previous post goes to the comments section of the article.

How I wish I could edit things already posted! Ugghh.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon12,

The BICEP2 collaboration claimed last year to have seen gravitational waves but their measurements (of "B-mode polarisation"), albeit exquisitely sensitive, were by the nature of their apparatus made at a single frequency (150GHz). That meant it was impossible to determine the spectrum of the signal, ie what it looked like at various frequencies - which would be a big clue to whether they really were seeing gravitational waves or seeing the effects of dust located to the front of their detector, as some skeptics claimed. The BICEP2 team responded that there should be very little dust in that direction. (There is more dust in some directions than others because of the shape of our galaxy.)

Data logged by the Planck satellite, not as sensitive as BICEP2 but taken across many frequencies, was crucial in settling the issue, and the Planck team and the BICEP2 team worked together for some months. At high enough frequencies dust is known to produce most of the signal, and Planck's 353GHz channel was able to tell us fairly accurately how much dust there was. Then the effect of that amount of dust at BICEP2's frequency of 150GHz was calculated and subtracted off the BICEP2 data. What was left really would be due to gravitational waves. But no clear signal stood out amidst the noise.

There is every reason to suppose that gravitational waves exist, theoretically and also indirectly from other experimental results, but the BICEP2 team had jumped the gun and it is still the case that no team has yet directly observed gravitational waves.

Physicist

Anonymous said...

Physicist,
Are we going to be levitating anytime soon?
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Anonymous said...

3Star,

Gravity, unlike electromagnetism, is always an attractive force. So No. At least, not by natural means. Jesus and Peter walked on water which was a gravity-defying miracle.

Physicist

Anonymous said...

2:17
Ok, if God is gravity I will need a bit of time to cope with the gravity of that situation.

Why can demons make things levitate, are the devoid of God/gravity so they are disconnected?

might be dumb question.

Just wondering.
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Anonymous said...

3Star, God grants Satan the ability to do miracles too; that's explicit in the Bible. As a physicist I can explain only the natural, not the supernatural. Of course the law of gravity that operates unless a miracle takes place was ordained by God - Physicist

Anonymous said...

Revelations again. 16:14
ok.

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Anonymous said...

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/rothschilds-and-the-geoengineering-empire/

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yXnkzeCU3bE

There seems to be a big connection between gravity waves and geoengineering.

Enron was in on that geoengineering thing some how.
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Anonymous said...

3Star at 6.02pm,

That's a different sort of gravity wave shown on YouTube. The phrase has two very different meanings. In physical cosmology it means waves in the very fabric of spacetime, even in a vacuum. You will probably have seen how matter distorts spacetime around it, and the well-known diagram of a black hole as being like a ball bearing placed on a horizontal elastic sheet that is pre-stretched in both directions. If the ball oscillates slightly then so does the elastic sheet, and these are gravity waves.

Then there are gravity waves in the atmosphere which arise at an interface between warm air and cold air; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_wave

The two meanings of the phrase are distinct.

I am skeptical of human efforts to modify the weather. I've explained why on this blog in a discussion with Christine, which I expect you can find by googling "Cumbey Christine Physicist" together with each of "cloud seeding" or "chemtrails" or "HAARP". I've no wish to go over it all again. A more likely reason for Rothschilds to buy up a weather forecasting graphics firm is in furtherance of the global warming scam.

Physicist

Anonymous said...

http://www.ahtna-inc.com/

Above link is the latest on the regime change at HAARP in AK. It was British Areospace Engineering (BAE) (Sir Roger Carr). It is terribly interesting that AHTNA are global and dabble in energy/oil and gas plus medical records. I never get a fun feeling about darpa as and on site client, oh well.

I am sure u know more than me but I can't read any of her coments.
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Anonymous said...

Look at the thread beneath Constance's article on this blog of June 24, 2012 for an explanation of why HAARP has a negligible effect on the weather - Physicist

Anonymous said...

Physicist on cloud seeding: this blog, thread under article of October 28, 2012.

Physicist on chemtrails: this blog, thread under article of August 24, 2012.

Anonymous said...

will do
I have no opinion on it.
Looks like haarp is more about data mining and energy control to me anyway or the usual tax the little guys in the name of research.

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Craig said...

U.S. Media Blackout: Italian Courts Rule Vaccines Cause Autism

On September 23, 2014, an Italian court in Milan award compensation to a boy for vaccine-induced autism. (See the Italian document here.) A childhood vaccine against six childhood diseases caused the boy’s permanent autism and brain damage.

While the Italian press has devoted considerable attention to this decision and its public health implications, the U.S. press has been silent.

Like the U.S., Italy has a national vaccine injury compensation program to give some financial support to those people who are injured by compulsory and recommended vaccinations. The Italian infant plaintiff received three doses of GlaxoSmithKline’s Infanrix Hexa, a hexavalent vaccine administered in the first year of life. These doses occurred from March to October 2006. The vaccine is to protect children from polio, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis B, pertussis and Haemophilus influenza type B. In addition to these antigens, however, the vaccine then contained thimerosal, the mercury-containing preservative, aluminum, an adjuvant, as well as other toxic ingredients. The child regressed into autism shortly after receiving the three doses...

Presiding Judge Nicola Di Leo considered another piece of damning evidence: a 1271-page confidential GlaxoSmithKline report (now available on the Internet). This industry document provided ample evidence of adverse events from the vaccine, including five known cases of autism resulting from the vaccine’s administration during its clinical trials (see table at page 626...)...


Craig said...

ZERO U.S. Measles Deaths in 10 Years, but Over 100 Measles Vaccine Deaths Reported

With the measles and measles vaccine debate reaching a near frenzy on the Internet, it is always nice to throw some cold hard facts on the firestorm currently raging in the measles debate.

So here are some easily verifiable facts regarding deaths due to measles in the United States for the past 10 years, and deaths due to measles vaccines during the same 10 year period.

First, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) keeps a weekly tally of disease outbreaks, including deaths. According to a statement made by Dr. Anne Schuchat, the director of CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, in an Associated Press story picked up by Fox News on April 25, 2014:

"There have been no measles deaths reported in the U.S. since 2003"

The weekly CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports (MMWR) since that date have not revealed any measles deaths either.

And while health authorities are blaming measles outbreaks in recent years on unvaccinated children, when you mention the fact that nobody is dying from measles in the U.S., they are quick to turn around and claim vaccines have eliminated measles deaths (even though they cannot eliminate the disease itself apparently.)...

Craig said...

While not intending on starting a debate on the “rapture,” I offer the following as food for thought to this with an interest. Years ago, J. Vernon McGee, a teacher I generally respect, stated that the Greek word for “apostasy” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 refers to the “rapture,” i.e., that it’s not a “falling away” into religious apostasy, but a ‘taking away’ from this world before the 7 years of the Day of the Lord/Great Tribulation. I was taken aback. This led me to a word study of this term, to include usages in the NT and the LXX (Greek OT). My findings were that the term always referred to a rebellion, most often of a religious nature (1 Maccabees contains a reference to a political revolt); therefore, this spatial usage (“raptured away”) I considered to be in error.

I found the following the other day (thanks to Dr. David Alan Black), which interacts with this particular stance, ultimately deeming it unsatisfactory. It’s a bit technical, but I think the average layperson can follow the author’s argument with some effort; and, I think the author gives the view a fair shake:

IS APOSTASIA IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3 A REFERENCE TO THE RAPTURE?

Craig said...

"to this with an interest" should be to THOSE with an interest...

Anonymous said...

Craig,

I am in no doubt that vaccination is a good thing. The list of dangerous diseases which are no longer a problem thanks to vaccination is huge and the absence of measles mortality in the USA is a wonderful thing if you look at the historical stats. Nothing else can explain it. Grumbling that the diseases are still in existence is not the point given that some reside in animal species and that measles fatalities still occur in other countries.

I think, however, that it is unwise to pack vaccines for a large number of diseases into a single jab. That makes for a heavy load on the infant immune system - perhaps too heavy for some. It is done presumably because the authorities want as many people vaccinated as possible to prevent epidemics, and believe that people would be unwilling to bring their children to multiple appointments.

Perhaps also there is a genetic component to bad reaction to vaccines. In the forseeable future that can be predicted by routine genetic testing.

Craig said...

Anon 6:40am

I don’t have a particular stance on vaccinations; i.e., I’m ‘pro-choice,’ meaning I think it should be the parents’ choice in the matter. I say that because of the, as I see it, unnecessary additives (e.g., mercury), which may well cause deleterious outcomes. To put another way, isn’t there a safer way to administer the vaccines?

I only posted the measles article after I saw it on the same site as the one re: autism. With the rise in incidence of autism one has to wonder the root cause. Is it something in the environment, additives in foods, vaccines, etc.? Apparently, Italian courts think vaccines are the cause of at least one couple’s child’s autism. But, what strikes me especially is the US media’s silence (so far) on the matter. I haven’t looked over (nor probably will I) the 1271 page GlaxoSmithKline report, but, as the article states, the report was damaging to the vaccine maker in Italian courts.

As to your point about forthcoming genetic testing, I’ve no idea the cost of such testing, but, if somewhat substantial, this will only be available to those of means, leaving the poor at the mercy of the vaccine manufacturers. That is, unless the cost is borne uniformly by all, perhaps overloading an already overburdened healthcare system (I’m speaking primarily of the US, but this could apply to other countries).

Anonymous said...

Craig,

This is the poster at 6.40am to whom you responded. Epidemics are public health issues and I can see that the authorities have a legitimate concern. On the other hand I agree that parents should have choice. It seems to me that the solution is for the authorities to offer the vaccines for free. As to why these jabs contain mercury and other nasties, there must be some reason but I don't have enough medical knowledge to set it forth, for alas I am but a

Physicist

paul said...

I wonder why homosexuality is never sited as
a public health concern?
People will get all up in arms about vaccinations
and/or the refusal of them, but never a word
about the usual way that HIV is transmitted,
other than the very lame mention of the use of prophylactics.

paul said...

Physicist and Craig,
Sorry to butt in and I didn't mean to change the subject, but,
Could the use of mercury and "other nasties" be an example of Homeopathic medicine?
In Homeopathic medicine, (which predates Allopathic,
which is what the AMA is), they intentionally use(d)
known poisons, in very very small doses (tinctures)
in order to kick start the human natural defense
reactions.
At least that's my amateur understanding of it.

Anonymous said...

https://archive.org/stream/rockefellermedic00browrich#page/n5/mode/2up

I still think Fred Gates is linked to Bill Gates but I can not find the smoking gun evidence.

I reveived a vaccination in the office at my elementary school in the earlh 70s and many years later told my mother who was completely stunned having given NO such permission.

Medical care has been given in MO schools without parental notification in the past 12 months.

http://static.infowars.com/2013/02/i/general/bill_gates_vaccine_work_of_god.jpg

Any benifit received by vaccinations was an attempt to gain trust, the abuses now outweigh the benifits in my opinion.

Preschool is manditor is IL but the lack of fascists to enforce means you don't know yet. The measles outbreak was in Cook Co Illinois. To gain an idea if the character of the people in that county, go watch Chicago.

I am very suspitious of the shots.

Gates is Mr Common Core and Mr Lucis trust, as well as Mr vaccine and Mr UN development program. Something is up.

***

Anonymous said...

Paul,

The idea of homeopathy is to add the pathogen to water and then dilute it, often to such an extent that almost certainly there will be no molecules of that agent left. The resulting water is held to cure the effects of that pathogen. This is, of course, nonsense. The fact that water flows means that molecules of H2O move past each other, so there is no memory of the shape of the pathogen preserved, while the molecules themselves are unchanged. Pathogens act by chemical reactions.

Physicist

paul said...

No doubt that you're right. I was just trying to imagine why in the world there would be heavy
metal(s) in a vaccine of all things. It's just about the last thing that should be in there, logically.
And Homeopathic medicine was the state of the art
just a hundred years ago, with many many practitioners and many success stories.
Could mercury vapor be involved? Could it be left over in the repetitive re mixing of the water?

Anonymous said...

I don't believe that homeopathy was anything other than the placebo effect and the fact that some people get better anyway. It hasn't done well in double-blind trials - Physicist

Susanna said...

Craig, Paul & Physicist,

Another problem with the vaccines is when they are produced from cell lines derived from aborted fetuses......especially the measles vaccine.

The following article gives a very good overview of the situation.

Human Cell Strains in Vaccine Development

http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/human-cell-strains-vaccine-development
___________________________

I agree that parents should have a choice not to vaccinate - as long as they are willing and able to accept the consequences of their choice.

A parent's right to make a decision that might to put his own child's health at risk should not be imposed on parents of other children who are still too young to be vaccinated.

In fact, there are already some pediatricians who are refusing to accept unvaccinated children as patients precisely because it will put other vulnerable children at risk.

Doctors Rightly Reject “Anti-Vaxxers’ ” Children

http://www.nationalreview.com/human-exceptionalism/390142/doctors-rightly-reject-anti-vaxxers-children-wesley-j-smith


Anonymous said...

The placebo effect of homeopathics is far better than the side effects of pharmaceuticals.

Anonymous said...

end time headlines.org/2015/02/many-vaccines-destroying-kids-immune-systems/

Anonymous said...

"The placebo effect of homeopathics is far better than the side effects of pharmaceuticals."

We'd hate to make a sweeping generalisation, wouldn't we? You are free to decide, drug by drug, whether the negative side effects of pharmaceuticals outweigh their advantages in dealing with their target problems.

Anonymous said...

Year-old 40-minute interview with Frank Schaeffer in which he is consistently positive and respectful about his parents:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4dSNWKPgg4

Anonymous said...

As an item of personal testimony I had measles when I was 5. I still remember how ill I felt yet my mother assured me that I'd had a mild dose; when she had it at a similar age it did permanent harm to her eyesight. The vaccination debate is about a moderate-scale good for a large number of people versus a major bad for a very small number of people. Society is not good at making that kind of decision rationally. (A policy of compulsory vacillation?)

Physicist

Craig said...

Physicist,

Unfortunately, the vaccination debate is complicated by a number of factors:

1) Since pharmaceutical manufacturers are immune (pun intended) from lawsuits, it decreases incentives to make them potentially safer. While I know next-to-nothing about the why-fors regarding the use of mercury, aluminum, thimerol (which I think is not used any longer), aborted fetus tissue, etc., I’d think there are safer and humane means for delivery and preservation.

2) The fact that more and more immunizations are given simultaneously may overly tax an infant’s or toddler’s system, leading to who-knows-what.

3) I know of someone who wanted a safer alternative to an MMR vaccine containing thimerol who was told that the cost of the ‘safer’ alternative would be $300 and was to borne by her.

We are told that immunizations do not cause Autism; however, now we have an Italian court who ruled otherwise. If I recall the numbers correctly, the incidence of Autism has increased from 1 in 555 to 1 in 50 in roughly 50 years. What is the cause for this increase? I’m assuming the vaccinations are the same in Italy as the US; and, if this is the case, how many of these Autistic children were normal before their vaccine? I understand the idea of the ‘greater good,’ but tell that to parents of the Autistic child (again, assuming Autism is found to be from vaccinations).

My ex-stepson has an Autism-spectrum disorder (he’s been diagnosed as having “Pervasive Developmental Disorder”( how generic is that?)), with some verbal skills, and the usual fine motor impairment (he couldn’t tie his shoes until he was twelve). (As an aside, to my disappointment, his mother put him in some sort of home a few years ago – broke my heart. ) The individual mentioned in point 3 above has a non-verbal Autistic son; she was afraid further inoculations could cause regression.

It seems we need safer vaccinations.

One other point, while individuals cannot sue drug companies, if a vaccination is found to be the cause of a child’s illness or resulting condition, an individual can receive compensation of some sort from the government. That means it’s taxpayer funded. I say we make Big Pharma pay. But I don’t have much say…

Anonymous said...

The road to tort reform is lined with deceived conservatives claiming a love for free markets and big business. The fact is mom n pop local business have nothing in common with corporate fascism.

The trend in a fascist state is giving up all self government, school boards left behind for school choice coporate run unesco schools, trial by jury replaced by abratration or no fault big pharma.

They prefer to brainwash people into this tyranny.

I trust the Italian jury and agree with 11:11. Since the coporations own the government, without strong minded subjects, I won't hold my breath.

***

Anonymous said...

http://www.c-span.org/video/?313423-1/fcc-nominee-goes-senate-commerce-cmte

Are you ready for your blog to be regulated? I have been watching the destruction of free speech. They like to blame shariah law but the above video is a glimpse of the closer and usual suspects.

***

Anonymous said...

Craig,

This is Physicist. I'm the first to admit that I have no specialist knowledge in this areas as it's not physics. We seem to agree on a lot; please remember also that I'm in the UK and not necessarily up to speed with health policy in the USA. Re your numbered points,

1. Like you I'd be deeply surprised if there aren't better preservatives and adjuvants than toxic mercury and alumin(i)um. Perhaps there are but cost is regarded as a factor.

2. Agreed.

3. I've heard similar tales in the UK. More parents should hold out and then the cost will come down.

4. The idea that the Italian justice system can reliably decide truth in this matter is far from clear to me. Look at the farce over the Amanda Knox trials.

I've no real conclusion; just chatting.

PS to 12.31pm - no trial by jury in Mosaic Law!

Anonymous said...

Isn't it lovely and quiet around here these last few days? Just calm proper debate. Let's hope it lasts! :)

Anonymous said...

7:39 Praise Jesus!

***

Anonymous said...

7:21 We were just discussing this. A woman at our church had one child got autism after shots, he was fine until the day he had them. Her others were fine after shots. We think it is random at this point, a terrible gamble. We are sure this will change. There is a history of these shots being given in Hitler's germany to camp victims as well. I think we near those hard times.

It just looks bad.
***

Anonymous said...

http://nypost.com/2015/02/11/60-minutes-bob-simon-killed-in-car-crash/

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cbs-shareholders-accuse-60-minutes-555375

http://gawker.com/5992196/ari-emanuel-unhappy-with-brian-williams-interview-sends-furious-legal-letter-to-nbc

probably nothing...
***



and


Anonymous said...

New candidate for AC?

www.nowtheendbegins.com/?p=30736

Craig said...

Physicist,

I can't say I know much at all about vaccines, as it's not something I've put much time into studying. Having said, I also wonder about any potential correlation between the increase in vaccines and the increase in allergies (especially peanut), ADD, ADHD, etc.

I have to admit the Knox trials entered my mind.

As an aside: I had no idea the alternate British spelling for the American aluminum. I had to look that one up!

To all,

Related to this whole thing, as a gout sufferer (in my ankle joints), I endeavored to 'cure' it naturally by changing my diet, though I didn't consume the foods typically usually associated with gout (shellfish, beer/alcohol, red meat {I eat very minimal amounts}, organ meats {are you kidding me!}, etc.). I must note that gout does not run in my family. Thankfully, I've been gout-free since May of last year by incorporating much more fresh vegetables and fruits (usually about half of which are organic), among other dietary changes. This enabled me to start back running again - something I'd done most of my life.

In any case, about this same time I told myself I’d stop taking the one pharmaceutical I was taking – Omeprazole (active ingredient in Prilosec) – for recurrent heartburn. Thankfully, the change in diet helped the cause anyway.

During the course of this, while suffering through a gout attack, I went to an arthritis doctor (gout is considered arthritis); and after extracting seemingly endless vials of blood, I was told I was Vitamin D deficient. After declining to be put on synthetic D (what, so I could continue going back to the doc for bloodwork?), I began taking natural supplements (D3). I read that magnesium should always be taken with D, so I take them both.

This got me to thinking. Is there a correlation between any of this? Well, yes there may be. Magnesium loss is associated with taking Prilosec, Prevacid and the like. And, it seems that magnesium is required for the body to adequately intake vitamin D. Later, it occurred to me to check to see if there is any correlation between gout and Omeprazole, etc. While the 2 studies I found proved inconclusive, this was mainly due to the fact that those studied were the typical gout sufferer in general – middle-aged males.

paul said...

Amen Craig,
paul's smoothie a day that keeps Big Pharma away:

1 organic carrot
1 banana
baby spinach
pumpkin seeds
strawberries (frozen)
blueberries
cranberries
blackberries
fill 3/4 up with orange juice
and 1/4 water
and blend to smooth.

I use a high speed blender called Nutrabullet.
This delicious blend once a day has made me feel better in every way, and it fills you up so you aren't reaching for the candy bar or the Coke or the chips etc.
I could swear that in just a few days you can actually see the difference in the mirror.

Anonymous said...

8:59 Interesting until you got to the 'sacred name' at the end, why not say Isa as well? I suppose the author prefers the Kaballah name as he used.
Doubts applied.

Praise Jesus!
***

Craig said...

paul,

I opted for a Vitamix brand. Compared to your ‘shake,’ I put in more leafy greens (kale, spinach, chard) and less fruit, adding almonds and milk for protein.

I’m quite thankful to be completely pharmaceutical-phree. I think a key component in overall health is exercise, which should be combined with good nutrition. (I’ve exercised most all my life.) I don’t drink sodas any longer, don’t intake any (or next to nil) high fructose corn syrup, hardly any processed foods, and etc.

Anonymous said...

http://tabletmag.com/scroll/117567/times-columnist-says-gaza-terrorists-are-journalists

another dead reporter, reported about reporters being targeted,

nothing to see here

Richard said...

"New candidate for AC?

www.nowtheendbegins.com/?p=3073"

Alexis Tsipras? No.
His name sounds like a pharma drug.

I chime in again and put forth a resounding 'No'.

He appears with lying signs and wonders, deceitful wanderings, according to Thessaloniki.

The world will have to contend with a being that once was, is not now, but will be once more, and unlike any man in history.

He comes down AFTER the evacuation, on a his own 'white horse'. He mimics Christ. Is that so impossible to believe?

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