Friday, July 13, 2012

London New Age -- 33 years ago

As we approach London, the New Agers have memories of 33 years ago.  This was the 1979 Mind Body Spirit Festival where Benjamin Creme, Sir George Trevelyan, USA New Age leaders (Leland Steward, Barbara Marx Hubbard, Willis Harman et al) played a major role.  The "Mind - Body - Spirit" festivals were major coming out parties for the New age Movement.  They were expecting it might culminate in 1982 and similar to 1929 they had a major disappointment.  This was given me by a client who was once active in the New Age Movement on an international scale.  He has shared many other interesting materials as well which I will be putting out here.
Constance

Comments: 1 – 200 of 342 Newer› Newest»
Speaking of London, watch out for the opening and closing ceremonies of the Olympic Games in the next four weeks. These ceremonies are spectacular demonstrations of man's self-glorification, and constitute by far the clearest examples of such idolatry in our era. It would be surprising if there were not a New Age tint to it. I continue to be mystified why ticket prices for these trashy events match those for the best sporting moments.
 
I came to this blog four years ago and have gotten a treasure trove of insight, discernment, and motivation to stand against the encroachment of NA's tentacles in the church.

I am truly disappointed in the Demise of the contributors who were so helpful to me in that time--Ruth, Old Man of the Ski,JD, Rich, Dorothy, Susanna, and many others.

One complaint of Dorothy's that I have taken to heart is that folk don't do their own research. Or at least don't seem to spread the word. I am endeavoring to do both. It's been hard to play catch up with the "Big Dogs" such as Constance and the others who understand all the intricate inner workings of the network.

I do what I can with the understanding that I have. Thank you to all who have contributed.

However, the constant bickering and cat fighting that goes on is embarrassing. I no longer direct people to the site because of it. What was once a forum for vibrant and intelligent exchange has become petty and useless bantering.

As I once recommended regarding a former post-er Joyce, I now recommend for Christine (some think she has reincarnated--oops! I really don't mean that ;) )

Ignore her.

Perhaps if we do, some of the others will return with their vital contributions.

Having said that, I will continue with a second post.
 
...continued...

As I said previously, I am endeavoring to spread the word regarding the infiltration of the NA into the church. As such, I am in need of some information.

Toward the end of the previous thread I asked for help. Perhaps no can help me. So be it. But don't ignore my request because you're too busy with Christine.

So here is my plea again:

I do a ton of checking things online and often fail to keep a record of all the things that I come across.

Some time ago, I remember reading somewhere regarding "The Great Courses". It seems to me that the there was some direct connection to a NA source.

Obviously, when you go to the TGC website, you see all kinds of books on a variety of NA themes. And a couple of books from TGC are listed on the Theosophical Society's Olcott Library list.

But I am looking for a direct link between TGC and the NA organizationally. Does anyone have information of such?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

 
Dorothy,

You once recommended an interactive site that showed all the interconnections among leftist networks.

My computer crashed with all my bookmarks on it. Since then, I have tried to re-locate that site, but cannot find it.

I do remember that the last time I tried to access it, the interactive capability was not operating. Do you know if the site still exists?

I hope that you remember what I'm trying to describe.

Thanks!
 
Dorothy,

You once recommended an interactive site that showed all the interconnections among leftist networks.

My computer crashed with all my bookmarks on it. Since then, I have tried to re-locate that site, but cannot find it.

I do remember that the last time I tried to access it, the interactive capability was not operating. Do you know if the site still exists?

I hope that you remember what I'm trying to describe.

Thanks!
 
Finally, to Anonymous 11:56 a.m.:

I don't have TV connection, but I do remember watching the opening ceremonies of the 1994 winter Olympics. Even then, I saw the NA slant with eggs opening up and--was it children?-- popping out.

The whole point of the Olympics is to bring the world together into One unifying whole. That is New Age in a nutshell.

Keep looking. The more you look, the more you'll see. Hopefully, you'll continue to grow in your discernment here as I have if we can all help each other in constructive ways.
 
The Olympics also originated as a revival of the ancient Greek festival that united all the city states of Greece. While international cooperation and peace are not evil in themselves, this does fit in with the
war on national sovereignty.

Now, I am not an idolator of nationalism and sovereignty, rather, sovereignty is an essential tool to prevent encroachment of others' errors, and to provide a safe have to run to if your country goes wrong. Eliminate borders, unite rule as "world governance," and an error anywhere propagates everywhere and there is no escape.

The Olympics also in its symbolism and name, was part of the cultural paganism revival that seemed harmless, but laid the groundwork for (and in some individual cases reflected an existing closet case of) neopaganism.
 
Dear Anon@1.00pm,

I'm not willing to let nonsense about physical science pass here, not least because some people misuse it to try to justify New Age ideas. That's why I take up people when they talk nonsense about physics (although Christine does not link it to NA - she simply prefers not to be educated). I do not post physics here when others do not talk trash about it, and there was a happy interlude recently when that was the case. Feel free not to read me either. I post my anti-NA Christian-perspective stuff here as Anon.

Physicist.
 
I support Physicist in his efforts to correct Christine's misinformation and am grateful that he has the education and patience to do it.

Allowing Christine's nonsense to stand unchallenged makes those who attempt to raise awareness about the NA a laughingstock to anyone who stumbles upon this blog.

I hope however that everyone else - and I mean EVERYONE else - will ignore her.
 
Anonymous 1:51,

I see your point and it is well taken. I have also challenged her in the past for the same reason.

I offer this wisdom. Challenge once then drop it. Those who have understanding will quickly see the futility of extending arguments.

To be honest, I don't have any idea of the issue between Physicist and Christine because I scroll past all conversations with her. To me, to read them is tedious and unproductive (from Christine's side).

So there is the danger. I'm sure Physicist has excellent contributions to give, but I am losing out on his/her expertise because I'm ignoring Christine and the bantering.

To Physicist:
I apologize for slighting your valuable contributions. That was not my intent. I was not trying to single you out. You just happen to be countering her at the moment. And as I said, I don't read conversations she is having, so I was not intending to be specific to you. You are not the only one who replies to her. There are others who have gotten caught up in her conversations.

Thank you for your contributions. I will be more careful to read them in the future. If I understand the issue, I'm sure I will benefit from them. Physics goes over my head.
 
So back to my original question from the previous thread and post at 1:05. Can anyone help me in my quest?
 
Can you provide a link to "The Great Courses"? The only thing that comes up when I google is the Teaching Company (with whom I am familiar) but you obviously are talking about something else.
 
The Teaching Company and The Great Courses are connected.

Somewhere I read a statement that connected The Great Courses to a NA entity organizationally--I don't remember which. I don't think it was the Theosophical Society, but they do list TGC books on their Olcott Library list.
 
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/

At the bottom of the page see:
The Teaching Company
 
Anon 2:52,

I love the Teaching Company. I own several courses by them, which I started purchasing nearly 20 years ago. They are nearly all within the "Great Books" tradition (classic liberal education). I have never found anything remotely New Age about any of the courses. In fact, what they present is a tonic to much of what is happening at actual bricks and mortar colleges and universities.

The courses are all taught by college professors from a cross section of different universities. The subject matter of the courses I own range from Plato's Dialogues, Bach, Gothic Cathedrals, Ancient Rome, Joyce's "Ulysses," American Religious History, Neuroscience, Literary Criticism, Critical Thinking, and Mathematics. I do own Bart Ehrman's "Lost Christianities" by them which I purchased because I was curious about how the gnostic gospels would be presented by a fairly successful academic. The fact that this company carries an Ehrman course however does not make them "New Age."

As far as I can see, if The Teaching Company is "New Age" then so is the Great Books Program at the University of Chicago. In short, unless someone can stump up with some conrete evidence about them of which I am unaware, I find the notion wholly without merit.
 
Hi again anon,

I noticed on the TGC website that they have a section called "Better Living" which carries a few courses that could arguably be classed as New Age - such as Meditation and The New Science of Health. It has been mentioned before at this blog (albeit a long time ago) that there is an academic side to the New Age movement. In other words, there are some professors teaching at the college level who have New Age views. This could be the case with some of the courses on offer in the Better Living section, although it is hard to say without actually listening to some of the content.

If the Teaching Company limited their catalogue to subjects like World Religion, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Better Living, I would class them as a New Age-leaning organization. But this is really a small subsection of their catalogue. I don't think offering this material in itself makes them New Age.
 
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money?cmpid=huffpo&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-nb%7Cdl35%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D178479

This is an interesting article in Businessweek about the wealth of the Mormon Church. It looks like the Mormon's belief that their purpose is to build God's Kingdom on earth is similar to what is called "Christian Recontructionism" being taught in some of the Protestant Churches. Correct me if I am wrong but I think that is what is taught by the Vatican also. I personally believe that Jesus Christ will come back in person and set up His kingdom on earth. Even the apostles never waged any kind of Christian activism to take down Rome at the time and set up the Kingdom of God. They clearly taught an iminent return of Jesus Christ Himself.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/13/x-class-solar-flare-sunspot_n_1670668.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-nb%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D178696

To the Physicist,
Is this happening more frequently or are we just in the peak of a cycle? Whenever I see this I think of the 4th bowl of wrath in revelation which is the sun scorching the earth and men blaspheming God because of the severity of the heat. I don't believe that solar flares as this has anything to do with the sun's heat but more of disruption of communications and the beautiful northern lights. It just seems to be happening more on a regular basis and that these solar flares are getting stronger.
 
John Rupp,
True enough, but they were of the mindset that Jesus was going to physically bring back the glory of
David and Soloman's Kingdom right up until he was crucified. They were utterly devastated at his crucifixion. Peter even thought that Jesus' arrest was
his cue to begin the battle, no ?
It wasn't until they saw him resurrected and listened
to him explain the scriptures that it began to dawn on them the true nature of the Kingdom of Heaven in their time.
I guess my point is that God reveals his purposes to whom He will, when He will, and that apostates like Mormons and Rosicrucians and Friere-Masons and
Wiccans can and will continue in their errors until God brings an end to them just as He has so many times already.

see "Ancient Pre-Flood History" by Ken Johnson
 
John Rupp,

The Vatican teaches are we are just stewards of the kingdom, in charge of taking care of it, until Jesus comes back.

I also tend to us the word Magisterium, because it's the teaching body, the Vatican is just a place.


Savvy
 
John,

The sun is in an active phase of its regular 11-year cycle. Whether the active phase of the present cycle is
significantly more active than the active phase of previous passages through this cycle, I don't know. You can get some idea of the variations from this source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solar_cycles

I don't see anything unprecedented, which the fourth bowl event of Rev 16 will obviously be.

Physicist.
 
Jesus speaks of the sun not giving its light and the moon becoming blood before His return.

Now, the moon turning red is in a lunar eclipse, where the earth blocks sunlight to it, and you can't get both a lunar eclipse and a solar eclipse at the same time.

What Jesus said can't refer to a normal cycle of eclipses, lunar and solar, because these were nothing unusual and are nothing unusual.

So it sounds like He either means something so extreme that it is not like eclipses, OR it is simultaneous.

Now the only things that could do that, would be either direct divine action, OR an eclipse of the sun by the nibiru "tenth planet" which is really a red dwarf star, invisible outside of IR.

(shut up physicist, don't start. the alleged photos of it are of course false, because it is invisible except in IR. All the official arguments that if it were there we'd all see it fail because of that.)

If that thing is coming on a long loop and breaks the ecliptic inside our orbit, it can come between us and the sun - resulting in the famous Three Days of Darkness the RC visionaries have been warning about for a few hundred years now.

Now look at the disinfo on this. You have New Ager Nancy Lieder and her channelled "zetas" saying it was due in AD 2003 of course a no show. and other stuff. Result: only new agers would be prepared, and the rest of us ignoring would be caught out in the open so to speak and killed by the upheavals and coastal devastations.

The first reference to this comes out of a Russian report after WW II
regarding some Nazi expedition's supposed findings in Tibet, nibiru and 3600 year orbit convenient to explain away the Exodus events and so forth.

Nope. they wouldn't get that in Tibet. This was cobbled together from a lot of crap, but since demons were talking to Maria Orsic, and would know about this thing, they probably threw some truth and a lot of lies.

This first reference (Sitchin being a fraud nibiru means eunuch in Sumerian check an online dictionary of Sumerian) being from Nazi mystics and occultist on a trek, it follows something is seriously wrong.

HOWEVER something was spotted out there by IRAS and the elites and govts. in several countries, ours included, have been acting like they are preparing for some major disaster for decades.

In the USA such underground installations are for elites and Continuity of Govt. and scientists and military, not the rest of us.
Russia and Switzerland seem more concerned about their populations.

The original preparations for WW 3, segued into preparations consistent with expecting a terrible cataclysm.

Look at Revelation chapter 6, RIGHT AFTER THE FOURTH HORSEMAN, there is an event that is EXACTLY how it would look from the ground, if the earth's crust lurched across the mantle, or the axis shifted, or both, with or without any red dwarf star 4x earth mass and size whether on a long tilted eliptical orbit or a one time visitor.
 
I have a suggestion for everyone regarding Christine...yes ignore her is alright so folks here can move on (and not get hung up on her-often off point-blogclog) but also pray for her. Anyone with the amount of time spent as she has for her horizontal view of the world clearly needs to do a vertical and look up to see Jesus and commune with Him much more often. The perspective gained would cure many troubles of soul and mind and heart. This is true for each of us-me included- agreed? And by the way everyone.. Jesus loves you. Yes that means you.
 
Savvy,
Thank you for informing me of what the Magisterium teaches and I will remember to use that term, you are right that the Vatican is just a place.
Physicist,
Thank you for the link to wikipedia on solar flares. I found some really good information there.
 
"What Jesus said can't refer to a normal cycle of eclipses, lunar and solar, because these were nothing unusual and are nothing unusual... Now the only things that could do that, would be either direct divine action, OR an eclipse of the sun by the nibiru "tenth planet" which is really a red dwarf star, invisible outside of IR.(shut up physicist, don't start. the alleged photos of it are of course false, because it is invisible except in IR."

Christine, you seem unaware that we have highly sensitive IR (infrared) detectors in orbit that would have spotted anything of that size/distance combi. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRAS#Later_surveys

Jesus indeed speaks of the sun not giving its light and the moon becoming blood before His return. There are exotic astrophysical scenarios that could cause this, but I would say more likely are atmospheric phenomena. Nor did Jesus say that these events would be completely simultaneous; merely close in time.

Physicist.
 
Christine, how many words do you contribute here per week on average compared to your own blog?
 
Possibly as Large as Jupiter; Mystery Heavenly Body Discovered
By Thomas O'Toole, Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 30, 1983 ; Page A1
A heavenly body possibly as large as the giant planet Jupiter and possibly so close to Earth
that it would be part of this solar system has been found in the direction of the constellation
Orion by an orbiting telescope aboard the U.S. infrared astronomical satellite.
So mysterious is the object that astronomers do not know if it is a planet, a giant comet, a
nearby "protostar" that never got hot enough to become a star, a distant galaxy so young that
it is still in the process of forming its first stars or a galaxy so shrouded in dust that none of the
light cast by its stars ever gets through.
"All I can tell you is that we don't know what it is," Dr. Gerry Neugebauer, IRAS chief
scientist for California's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and director of the Palomar Observatory
for the California Institute of Technology, said in an interview.
The most fascinating explanation of this mystery body, which is so cold it casts no light and
has never been seen by optical telescopes on Earth or in space, is that it is a giant gaseous
planet as large as Jupiter and as close to Earth as 50 billion miles. While that may seem like a
great distance in earthbound terms, it is a stone's throw in cosmological terms, so close in fact
that it would be the nearest heavenly body to Earth beyond the outermost planet Pluto.
"If it is really that close, it would be a part of our solar system," said Dr. James Houck of
Cornell University's Center for Radio Physics and Space Research and a member of the
IRAS science team. "If it is that close, I don't know how the world's planetary scientists
would even begin to classify it."

http://www.alienresearchcorp.com/2012/nibiru/0910/discovered/

now the purturbations of Neptune and Uranus orbits cannot be caused by Pluto it is too small, so something else is out there. period.

whether it loops in here or not is another matter.
 
interesting quick overview article of history and beliefs of the NAM.

http://www.patheos.com/Library/New-Age.html

longer article in depth incl. a more Christian spin.

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/kreitz/Christian/Cults/9.newage.pdf
 
Christine,
"Shut up Physicist..." ??

At that point I have to disregard and ignore everything else you said.
But what a perfect example "shut up physicist" is
of a person who doesn't want solid logic to get in the way of an internet fueled wild eyed paranoid RANT.

It's 8:50, the solar storm is due to hit earth perhaps in ten minutes or so.
We may all be out of touch for a while.
God bless you all; including you Christine.
 
"a person who doesn't want solid logic"
logic is only as good as the information to work with. Garbage in garbage out (GIGO an old computer principle).

Solid logic can prove the earth is flat, too. youtube.com search for flat earth society, if only for a giggle.
 
Anon 1:09

I belive what you are looking for is the Whole Again site. Dorothy recommended the resource a few times. However that site is now gone

Anon 1pm

Thanks for the kind words. There are many layers to the reasons some no longer post here. For me it is simply time and sanity conservation. I have a 2 year old daughter and health issues stemming from a spinal injury. I can't spend the time I once did weeding through here and most of what I would have to offer informationally can't be summarized in short blurbs. So I wait and add what I can of value and remain silent through the other.
 
Re The Great Courses:

A while back, I received (unsolicited) a catalog of The Great Courses which I eventually tossed for reasons I don't fully recall. I may have received this because I've been buying quite a lot of Christian theological and historical books for my own reference library. I dunno.

In any case, looking at the site, I see there's a heavy emphasis on Bart Ehrman's work. Ehrman is doing his best to undermine Christianity in part by illustrating all the 'errors' in the Bible. According to Craig A. Evans' book Fabricating Jesus, it was Ehrman's discovery of certain Biblical texts which seemed to be in error which caused him to lose all faith in the inerrancy of Scripture (see pp 30-31 of Evans' book).

This began Ehrman's quest to point out all the other 'errors' in Scripture. His 'evidence' consists of the variations in NT documents which merely illustrate scribal errors (misspellings/wrong words copied due to the necessity of copying documents word by word since there was no printing press {obviously} in the early Church). In reality, this all part of the discipline known as Textual Criticism which examines all the extant NT material and determines what is human error and what is likely the intent of the original human author of the NT letter, book, etc. since we do not have the original 'autographs' (actual "first editions") of any NT material.

Having said all the forgoing, I would be hesitant to read ANY of Ehrman's other work such as his books on the early Church. At least I wouldn't do so without having other resources to check the accuracy of his work.

As for Plato's work being available on the site: Platonism, informed Middle Platonism and subsequent Neoplatonism. Platonism was part of the backdrop of 1st/2nd century Gnosticism which, in turn, forms the backdrop of much modern New Age thought.

This wiki article looks pretty good upon skimming it (although I'm far from an expert on Gnosticism, Platonism, Neoplatonism, etc.):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism_and_Gnosticism

So, from my quick look at TGC, I'd say, overall, it's just not a pro-Christian site (although there are works by Lutheran Craig Koester whose work I"m not familiar with). I wouldn't go so far as calling it New Age, unless there are some things I just didn't see with a quick overview.
 
Christine,
"Logic is only as good as the information to work with.
Garbage in, garbage out is an old computer computer principle"

Exactly
An example might be: Alex Jones in, Christine Erickson out.
 
Craig,

Plato is one of the greatest minds Western civilization has produced. You are correct that the gnostics were influenced by his thought, but they were also influenced by Christianity. This doesn't mean we should be wary of the Bible because of this.

Appreciating Plato's genuis does not mean we must agree with everything he thought or wrote. Moreover, keep in mind, he lived and wrote before Christ was born.

Please be careful of promoting anti-intellectualism, or giving the impression that the Christian tradition is an anti-intellectual one. It is not - or at least never was prior to the Reformation.

With regard to your statement that TGC are not "Pro-Christian" because they carry Ehrman- they also carry a wonderful course on Bach, where the teacher explains eloquently how his deep Christian faith informed his music. Ditto for their course on C.S. Lewis. I just don't think you are giving a balanced view here.
 
P.S. St. Augustine, one of the greatest Christian minds who ever lived (Constance admires him) was heavily influenced by Plato.
 
annon 1:09. obviously not Dorothy. But here is the website you are looking for:

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/
 
Anon 10:06:
It wasn’t my intent to engage in a full discussion on this as I just don’t have the time today. However, perhaps I should have been a bit more explicit as regards Plato. Plato taught the preexistence of souls. There are some scholars/critics of his works who believe he taught reincarnation along with this, while others are not sure. Regarding the preexistence of souls (again without getting in a full discussion), there are those who’ve taken this to mean these souls were part of ‘God’ and hence we all have a part of ‘God’ within us. And, those who’ve gone down the reincarnation path believe we progressively perfect ourselves in subsequent lives.

Yes, one can read Plato without it influencing one’s own worldview.

The Gnostics perverted Christianity using their own texts which are all at points in opposition to the historic faith yet using Biblical characters (especially Jesus). So, to that extent, one could say they were “influenced by Christianity”. One could well say Theosophy was “influenced by Christianity” with this in mind.

I’m certainly not advocating anti-intellectualism; in fact, I’ve had folks accuse me of the opposite.

I did provide the caveat that I’ve not fully vetted the site. I merely tried to answer the question posed based upon my admitted limited exposure. However, I’m not 100% convinced on the legitimacy of C. S. Lewis’ work from a Christian perspective as it seems to have been sort of a mixed bag.

My larger point is that my take of the site is that it’s not necessarily pro-New Age; but, it isn’t pro-Christian either. And not being ‘pro-Christian’ isn’t saying it’s anti-Christian.
 
Craig,

You sound more like your usually reasonable self in your last post. Some critics have in fact argued, quite convincingly in my view, that Plato was actually a Proto-Christian.

With regard to the point on reincarnation, even assuming those who argue he taught it are correct, we are talking about someone who lived in Athens nearly 400 years before Christ. You might have believed in it yourself had you lived in that culture. It's not a reason for anyone to avoid Plato.

"And not being ‘pro-Christian’ isn’t saying it’s anti-Christian."

I agree, but to me, this question is pretty much irrelevent. TGC is an educational company that produces and sells scholarly materials for lay audiences interested in a classical liberal education. It's not a church, political, or a spiritual organization, nor is it promoting itself as such, nor does it appear to be pretending to be an educational business when it is actually some kind of New Age front.

With that said, as in all things discernment is called for. Many successful academics have strong anti-Christian biases, and this no doubt includes some of those who record for the Teaching Company (such as Ehrman). A student walking into nearly any bricks and mortar university (including many "Christian" schools) is faced with a similar challenge.

Finally, with regard to Christianity and the pitfall of anti-intellectualism, the best study I have seen is by a Lutheran pastor. It is called "Against the Protestant Gnostics." It is a brilliant book and should be much more widely known that it is.
 
"the purturbations of Neptune and Uranus orbits cannot be caused by Pluto it is too small, so something else is out there."

Which perturbations, Christine?
 
the ones that got Pluto discovered in the first place. Ever hear of Clyde Thombaugh? What do they teach in junior high school science books these days?

and it was purturbations of the orbit of Uranus that got Neptune discovered. http://cseligman.com/text/history/discoveryneptune.htm
 
Christine: the purturbations of Neptune and Uranus orbits cannot be caused by Pluto it is too small, so something else is out there.

Me: Which perturbations, Christine?

Christine: the ones that got Pluto discovered in the first place. Ever hear of Clyde Thombaugh? What do they teach in junior high school science books these days?

Reply:

Not as much as when I went through high school (and then got my doctorate). You could spell his name correctly, for a start: Tombaugh. I meant what perturbations that Pluto does not account for, of course. Everybody in physics knows that story.

So, with that understood: Which perturbations?

Physicist.
 
"After the discovery of Uranus, its measured orbit was compared with predicted positions. By 1830, the predicted and measured positions were off by more than 4 planet diameters. One possibility was that discrepancy was the result of a perturbation caused by the gravitational pull of some unknown body. As a starting point, a distance out from the Sun of 39 Au was assumed – the next position in the empirical Titius-Bode Law."

This led to the discovery of Neptune, which then seemed to be a bit off also, so here comes Pluto.

"Continued observations of Uranus and Neptune in the 19th century suggested that yet another planet existed. A search began in spite of less convincing evidence. Percival Lowell was one of the most persistent observers. In 1930, Clyde Tombaugh discovered a new “planet” using the Lowell Observatory Telescope and called it Pluto. As of 2006, Pluto has been designated a “dwarf planet”."

Then of course it got decided Pluto wasn't even a planet but a planetoid or an escaped moon from somewhere or something.

"Note: Pluto is far too small to perturb Neptune’s orbit enough to make its presence known, although Percival Lowell made endless calculations to find it. Clyde Tombaugh found Pluto (magnitude ~13.5 ) by systematically taking pictures of the plane of the Solar System. He took pictures in pairs one or two weeks apart and looked for anything that moved. The idea is that planets would appear to shift against the backdrop of stars because the Earth had moved to a new viewing angle over the intervening two-week period.

Scientists now know Pluto is far too small to cause perturbations of Uranus and Neptune. Recent studies suggest that the problem actually was in the observations of these two planets."

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~nowack/geos105/lect16-dir/lecture16.htm

(At this point, barely conscious, I have a mental picture of a possible cartoon someone could do of those two planets looking irritated, another meaning for "perturbed," as for spelling I just caught "mental"
spelled "mnetal" and corrected it, but howcome you didn't say anything about "PURturbed" though you spelled it right, I don't normally use that word and frankly it reminds me of L. Ron Hubbard and his "interbulation" which is too irritating to think about and see here, you mathematicians are out of date, ever hear of phonetic spelling? experts with degrees have calculated that in 100 years English will be spelled very differently like is now compared to Elizabethan English, nyah nyah I'm not spelling badly I am more advanced than you are, I AM JOKING.

By the way if I have been ruder than right to be (dangling participle I suppose) I apologize, peace in Jesus we can agree to disagree until someone proves by experiment that odd stuff that can't happen NEVER happens, and in fact it DOES happen.

Rats, here I go again talking to you, I was going to ignore you.

BTW did you know that last thing that zipped by us turned out to be twice the size they thought?

It would be a good idea for people to keep several weeks supply of food etc. on hand nibiru or no nibiru, we seem to be getting a serious uptick of geological disasters. the New Madrid Fault could break SERIOUSLY sometime, and if Cumbre Vieja seriously blows, and collapses, finishing what it started a few hundred years ago, there is going to be a 150 foot tsunami hit the US east coast and probably higher on euro and Brit coasts. (God to Noah in the Bill Cosby humor recording, "how long can you tread water?" not really, coastal inundation is not a world wide flood.)
 
now this is the sort of thing that makes me suspicious something is being covered up.

"The search was largely abandoned in the early 1990s, when a study of measurements made by the Voyager 2 spacecraft found that the irregularities observed in Uranus's orbit were due to a slight overestimation of Neptune's mass." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planets_beyond_Neptune


miscalculation of Neptune's mass has no bearing on whether or not Uranus is always where it should be expected to be.

"Today, the astronomical community widely agrees that Planet X, as originally envisioned, does not exist, but the concept of Planet X has been revived by a number of astronomers to explain other anomalies observed in the outer Solar System"

the rest of the article is interesting. Harrington who made calculations of some big old thing out there died rather suddenly. Another calculation is that nothing can be there because nothing affected the probes (which it wouldn't if it wasn't in the right part of its orbit to do so anyway) and the IRAS finding being only distant galaxies and a space cirrus is ridiculous, because galaxies are obvious as what they are, and cirrus isn't going to pass for a planet shaped thing.

My guess is, we got a brown dwarf out there, with an eccentric orbit, which may in fact not get all that near earth, but does fling stuff in our direction.

considering that the military and big money tend to control space science, if you dig enough, and scientists are heavily controlled by peer opinion and fear of loss of face and by research money, I think it would be a lot easier to do a coverup than you think.

All you need is pompous phrasing and a hint of impropriety of disagreeing and most will back down.

The main problem I have with the nibiru theory as it is, is that the observed thing and a later observation, involve travel speed far too great for these to be the same things. Also, the locations of in Orion and below the ecliptic don't fit either.

So there are TWO objects, one that stays out there minding its own business, and one that is a travelling rogue, and whether either exist or not, crustal displacement (which is NOT disproved by plate tectonics, because this scenario has the crust, plates and all, shift across the mantle in big jumps), would do the same kind of damage.

I have been around people who lie and deceive and shift ground and definitions and play verbal equivalents of stage magician distraction, so when I see something like it can't do what is happening because not dense enough so what is observed didn't happen I know something is wrong.
 
You don't have to be a physicist to know Nibiru just doesn't exist. No, it doesn't exist. No, no, no! It doesn't even come close to fulfilling the Biblical prophecy relating to Wormwood. A red dwarf star would have a mass greater than Jupiter. It would create a gravity field. It's not there! If it exists, then there really is a Santa Claus(who is tracked every Christmas Eve by Norad), Tooth Fairy, and Easter Bunny. Believing in Nibiru is very New Age. It's up there with Unicorns, crystals, and Shirley McClain (which don't exist either). Yes, I know the weather has been odd this year, but not because of Nibiru. How much longer do we have to put up with this 2012 Mayan nonsense? Let's see, it's July...so, less than 12 months.
 
Alright, Shirley MacClain does exist and so do crystals, but certainly not Unicorns. And crystals don't have magical powers.
 
And the world is obviously flat. DUH!
 
1. nibiru is not about wormwood, that is AFTER the crustal displacement like description of an event after the fourth horseman.

2. a brown dwarf might or might not be Jupiter's size, but by definition it would be invisible except on IR.

nibiru is allegedly on a sharply tilted orbit, way below the ecliptic most of the time. the gravitational effects are not like it is that close

the real problem is the flotsam and jetsam it is dragging with it.

3. even without nibiru as invading the inner solar system, such an object staying far in the outer fringe could under some conditions cause orbit deviation of asteroids and stuff near it, and send them at us.

4. nibiru is unnecessary however to account for the event at the end of Revelation 6, WHICH IS NOT WORMWOOD, but like a crustal displacement. Might also be the result of a big impactor triggering this or an axis tilt if not flip, since National Geographic said that one result of a huge asteroid hit would be 350 or more mph winds world wide, and you will note that

in Rev. 6 disaster the angels are told to hold the winds, so they don't hurt the trees. Interesting.

divine mitigation of something horrific that might involve an impactor of large size.

we seem to be in the time of the third horseman, sequeing into that of the fourth, and it is possible the death toll of the fourth incl. some of that caused by the disaster, but likely not.
 
"HK-91 said...
If the Agenda 21 topic is still alive, here is a very good presentation on it. The video covers the origin and the progress of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9GykzQWlXJs "

this was on the previous thread and may have been missed by most.
 
Christine,

A combination of IR spectrum measurements FAR more accurate than 1980s IRAS, plus gravitational effects, would have nailed any large object by now, especially a brown dwarf. If you doubt this, please look up online the radiation spectrum of brown dwarves and the instrument specs of today's orbiting IR detectors.

There are of course many hundreds of SMALL objects zipping around, so what you mean by Nibiru is a matter of definition.

"considering that the military and big money tend to control space science, if you dig enough, and scientists are heavily controlled by peer opinion and fear of loss of face and by research money, I think it would be a lot easier to do a coverup than you think."

I'm afraid this shows ignorance of how scientists operate. Several thousand astrophysicists worldwide compete to make new discoveries, and if something big is out there then it would have been fanfared very rapidly after it was discovered. The military have influence in some highly applied projects, but not in pure science, and in any case many research grants are unrelated to the military; on top of which there are plenty of other nations who fund their own pure research astrophysicists.

Christine, I'd far rather not contend with you - my aim has been to offer you scientific explanations and to prevent Constance's readers from being misled. It is a matter of regret to me that you reject many of my explanations. But I acknowledge your freedom to do so.

Physicist (at present at a scientific conference in Europe)
 
Steven Covey, author of Seven Habits of Highly Effective People has died.

Steven Covey's principles are highly valued in business and also among many church leaders. He himself was Mormon, and he promoted New Age leaders and principles.

Covey is surely responsible for many New Age principles infiltrating the church at large.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5NeqTdS5nxc#!

former worker at Bohemian Grove speaks out.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qxptcD6ubAk

Bohemian Grove and the Occult Connection
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Nepomuk mentioned in the video as the adopted patron of the Boheminan Grove, this saint was killed by drowning for refusing to reveal what a queen had confessed when her husband was suspicious of her. This made him a martyr of the Confessional, and a protector against slander and calumnies.

The tradition of covering demons and false gods and evil under pretense of saints is evident in voudon (voodoo) and various Afro Caribbean cults, and in Mexico "Santa Muerta" or saint death is sought after by many, but is no saint at all but an image of death and more likely represents the devil.

the adoption of a saint who died keeping secrets, points to a strong promotion of secrets of all kinds of the members, essentially like what happens at Bohemian Grove stays at Bohemian Grove, except for plans hatched there and put into action elsewhere, which are not to be discussed as being hatched there.
 
Christine,
As for the link to the Bohemian Grove whistleblower
I have little doubt but that he was exposing a thing
that should be exposed, but I have a little rule of
thumb ( which I only apply to myself ), wherein I
give little or no credence to people with their
eyebrows, (or tongues, or lips, or navels, or any other body parts other than maybe the earlobe), pierced and a ring inserted through it.
I know I know it's very trendy and fashionable these days.
I just can't take them seriously.
I think that they are,... well, ...lost.
Sorry.
And really, tattoos are just as stupid.
 
Somebody claimed on the last page thst Dorothy's religion was being exposed or 'attacked' as they called it. Really? Is that so unacceptable? What about exposing Islam, Buddism, or even the New Age Movement?

Dorothy has been attacking Christians and their beliefs, as she defends the evil kabbalah.

ALSO, DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT WE ARE TO EXPOSE LIARS AND CALL THEM TO REPENT? I SUGGEST ALL TAKE NOTE OF 1 JOHN 2: 22 - 23

And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.

Anyone who denies the Son doesn't have the Father, either. But anyone who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

ALSO IN DEUTERONOMY 18 WE READ:

10 Let NO ONE be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter ina the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord, and because of these detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you. 13You must be blameless before the Lord your God.

The Prophet

14The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the Lord your God has not permitted you to do so.

Frank
 
The Blasphemous Talmud / Hebrew Roots Movement / Messianic Jews / Christian Zionists

By Dr. Scott Johnson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vbj4RV0aAQ

Frank
 
And before the accusations of anti-Semite, bigot, or Stormfront supporter ( which I mpost certainly am not) ask yourself if you would accuse John the Evangelist or Moses of the same.

Frank
 
To Christine who thinks the Kabbalah is editable and then usable I say, do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?

Frank
 
paul said...

"Christine,
"Logic is only as good as the information to work with.
Garbage in, garbage out is an old computer computer principle"

Exactly
An example might be: Alex Jones in, Christine Erickson out.

9:57 AM "

Now that's what I call sound reasoning!
 
I do not think the kabbalah is editable and useable. I just know enough about it to know that the sorcery angle is minimal and hardly the focus of the typical Jew, and that it is not the entirety of modern Judaism, nor is it automatically an indicator of evil since it IS heavily edited and extracted from by rabbis today,

and the dangers in it are acknowledged as to be avoided since it is said one should not study it before age 40 (maturity and discernment issues) and not before the Torah and Talmud.

The blasphemous elements in the Talmud are also minimal and not harped on today.

Absent proof Dorothy is into the dark side of it, we can't denounce her as devil spawn or anything like that. Neither can we expect a practicing Jew to have any view of Jesus beyond Him being a good man and teacher, as many Jews are thinking these days, but

neither of these has relevance to the value of her research, which is
not about theology or eschatology but about what dirt is being cooked up now.
 
Unfulfilled prophecy: "Damascus shall be a heap." Of all places, interesting article in the Huffington Post, "Are we in the final battlef or Damascus?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-josef-olmert/damascus-syria-uprising_b_1675846.html

or
http://tinyurl.com/cudv7lf

Constance
 
The civil war in Syria has reached Damascus. Will Assad attack Israel as a diversionary nothing-to-lose response? Isaiah's prophecy? Or has that been fulfilled in an historical earthquake, a possibility that no commentator seems to have considered?
 
Constance,
I never thought of that prophecy about Damascus until you brought all of this up. This could very well be the start of this prophecy fulfillment. That was a very good commentary from the Huffington Post on the battle for Damascus. It is going to be fascinating to watch these events in Syria keep unfolding.
 
Tiglath pileser III destroyed Damascus and deported most of the inhabitants. the prophecy said that it would be a ruin forever and not inhabited, but God also said that when He decrees destruction if a city or nation's people repent He will relent of it.

now, Babylon was totally destroyed by Senacherib and his son Esarhaddon rebuilt it, but NOT ON THE SAME GROUND. Thus there is an older city remains, and the newer city Esarhaddon built with that name.

something similar happened with Tyre I think.

Likewise, Damascus was probably rebuilt but not on the same ground.

I am very dubious of the exited efforts of prophecy experts to read ancient prophecies most of which have been fulfilled into modern times.

however, sometimes prophecies come to pass more than once. The Harbinger presents some interesting comparisons that point to major trouble for the US, it is best to get the interview on youtube or google it to get the details and bypass any blithering fiction it is embedded in.
 
Babylon was not totally destroyed Christine, and btw the Arab still pitches his tent there!

You know nothing of Kabbalah and studies to declare there's not much sorcery in it. It's full of it!

Even if it were only a little as you wrongly claim, it still stands that a LITTLE leaven leavens the whole lump!

You love the proclamations of your own mouth, even when you are shown to be wrong, as the physiciat WITH A PHD has told you, you refuse correction! I'm surprized you haven't tried to teach Constance the finer points of jurisprudence yet. If you know what that is of course.

Still, best to ignore you, and your crazed beliefs about Niribu, etc.

Frank.
 
physicist didn't prove me wrong, he merely showed his loyalty to positions adopted long ago, and which laboratory results make questionable. when you conduct things in a normal way, his arguments hold.

when you add stuff to the mix like pulsation, rotation, and high voltage static fields and some other stuff, things start getting wierd. That is what has happened.
So physicist doesn't know all there is to know. And the experimenters usually don't pretend to know all the answers either, just that if you do certain things, certain things happen.

I have read book Briah and Book Yetzirah. The problem stuff is Book Zohar, and what was available to read of that was only segments, which tells me that the average Jew who gets into it is going to be hard pressed to find the worst.

As for leavening the whole, the Jew has a worse problem than some slight occultic potential, he doesn't realize Jesus is the Messiah. Even though the only time a non Jew sat on the throne of David, as per the prophecy in Genesis, when Jacob blessed his sons, was Jesus' time, when Herod, an Idumaean, ruled. There are other things besides this that point to Jesus, incl. Daniel's 69 weeks which come to an end in the Roman times, which is why although in Josephus' time Daniel was listed among the Prophets, by the time of the later Masoretes, Daniel was downgraded to merely Writings.
 
Christine ... Have you ever graduated with a first honors degree, notwithstanding a masters or Phd? No? I didn't think so.

You've no idea what you're talking about. If things were left to you we'd all be walking about in bearskins or such like, swinging clubs, and shivering in caves, dying of nasty diseases, etc. Though I don't truly expect you to understand that.

You really do yourself no favors by your own beligerence and arrogantly standing steadfast in your own ignorance.

Why don't you respect yourself and any tattered reputation that may be worth salvaging and leave this blog?

Frank
 
take it up with Thomas Valone and others.

I am not interested in my reputation with someone of no concern to me. I try not to be fleshly and the appeal you make is to fleshliness.
 
Praise the Lord!!! Jewish love for the New Testament

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/386/909.html&hl=en&langpair=auto|en&tbb=1&ie=windows-1255
 
note the reaction of one who complained the NT caused the murder of Jews. Obviously they need to know more about history. the biggest murder had more occultism than Christianity back of it, and earlier incidents in Eastern Europe and Russia were in violation of the general message of Christ ignored that these are His relatives, whether by blood or conversion, doesn't matter, and that Christianity is essentially a Jewish sect (or from our perspective, the right perspective, the next and final step in God's revelation of Himself to Israel and the world), the liturgical practices of the churches (until Luther and anabaptists overdid their reforms but even Luther kept some) were taken from the Temple liturgy. Luther by the way considered that the literal Body and Blood of Christ is literally present in the Eucharist, but doesn't remain after the ceremony is over, which is undoubtedly wrong, and the baptist pedigree goes through assorted often gnostic heretics, anyone opposed to RC was real church in their crazy and unhistorical estimation.
 
"Luther by the way considered that the literal Body and Blood of Christ is literally present in the Eucharist, but doesn't remain after the ceremony is over, which is undoubtedly wrong,"

the part that is wrong is that the Body and Blood do not remain after the ceremony is over, not that they do not become present in the Eucharist literally.
 
"physicist didn't prove me wrong, he merely showed his loyalty to positions adopted long ago, and which laboratory results make questionable. when you conduct things in a normal way, his arguments hold. when you add stuff to the mix like pulsation, rotation, and high voltage static fields and some other stuff, things start getting wierd. That is what has happened.
So physicist doesn't know all there is to know."

Never did I claim to; just rather more about physics than you, Christine. It is apparent that you have no idea what experiments have actually been done, or to what accuracy, to test the laws of physics written down by theoretical physicists today. You also badly need to understand that experiments sometimes go wrong, because of sloppiness or incipient apparatus failure. That is why an experiment which produces an anomalous result needs independent replication from other laboratories before a new phenomenon is proclaimed. The first thing a genuine physicist does when he finds an anomaly is recheck everything, call colleagues in, ask other laboratories to check it, etc. You, in contrast, would have every mistake, made by every physicist working late nights in any laboratory worldwide, crowned as a scientific revolution promising free energy.

Please learn some basic physics or stick to criticising New Age.

Physicist
 
Christine,
It's hard to tell if you're defending the faith in Jesus,
or tearing it down; if you're defending Kabbalah or
criticizing it.
I'm glad that God chose to make the Bible much
easier to understand in it's salient doctrinal points
than you do. I'm glad that God chose to leave out all the hair-splitting differences regarding demons and
evil principalities that you choose to belabor.
I wonder if you will, on judgment day argue with the
Lord about what was "really going on" on earth
in those last days, and/or if you will criticize Him
for his reticence regarding all these mysterious
phenomena and various doctrines, most of which amount to the traditions of men, and not the commandments of God.
I'm glad that God chose to make salvation a thing
that a child can understand, and that in fact we are
told to become as little children in our faith, as opposed to, say, Pharasees continually debating finer and finer points, ad nauseum, to the detriment of the the good news of God's offer to forgive people of sins, based on a simple sincere faith in His
son, Jesus.
 
HORROR: Dozens of genetically modified babies have already been born!!!

http://tinyurl.com/c4bvbo4
 
Yes, Paul ~ you have made some excellent points.

Let's keep it simple!!!

Less is more.

Regarding our faith in God, we all need to 'be like little children' and remain pure of heart.
 
Thanks Paul for that very gracious answer. If Christine would take that very thought to heart she and everyone else would be much much more edified on this blog. Civility could return and even she would be in the position to learn something rather than think herself the dispenser of all knowledge.
 
Hello physicist, with respect, not only does Christine Erikson know little about physics despite her pretensions to the contrary, neither does she criticize New Age, she promotes it!

Christine, indeed you are fleshly. You have a sewer mouth, are a defender of kabbalah, a promoter of belief in Nibiru and 'alien hybrids', and moreover are closed to correction, education and humility. That is why your reputation as a Christian against the NAM is in tatters. I only urge that you repent and desist in promoting NAM & nonsense and kabbalah, which is replete with sorcery!

However, with the physicist, Paul, and myself exposing your fallacies, fantasies and dangerous secretions, hopefully we shall either purge of of them, alert others, and purge you and your NAM ilk from this blog.

Frank
 
I completely agree with the previous two posts in acknowledging Paul's last post as being of great truth and able to edify.

The problem is Christine, you are a blind guide. On the one hand you are vague and your points are vacant of clear meaning, and on the other, you strain out a gnat and swallow a camel. Your reasoning sways like a drunkard from starboard to port, and your cargo is a rot of empty words and deceptions.

Frank
 
What are you on about Christine? Do you not know that Jesus Christ's family are those who do His will, and acknowledge Him as our Lord and Savior, God the Son?

Do you not know that there is NO DIFFERENCE between Jew or Gentile (Greek if you'd prefer) for those in Jesus Christ?

We shouyld not boast against the Jews, but we should expose the evil teachings of men like Hagee or the evil (now sadly in Hell) Rebbe Schneerson, who kabbalistically claims that Jews have a higher and different soul stuff compared to gentiles (or Goy as he'd say). Those posts on the last page exposing kabbalah and the evil mutterings of Doreen Dotan are telling too. She claims that Yahweh, as she calls Jehovah God, made the Jews in His Image ( a Divine Spark Dorothy would say), but that we gentiles we made by the Jews who she claims are 'the Elohim'. What blasphemy!

It is Jesus Christ who is the vine to which this wild olive brqnch is grafted into, some of the natural is grafted in to (although there is no difference between the two in value), but much of the natural has been cut off because of the Jews' rejection of the Messiah, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. We must not boast but we must expose evil wherever it lurks, and we must tell the Good News to both Jew and Gentile alike.

Frank
 
To swee that evil man pictured tearing the Holy Bible up is sickening! Chreistine is even trying to defend this! Much rather, tear up the Satanic kabbalah in all its forms includibng Zohar, and the evil Babylonian talmud (which calls Jesus Chrisit's human mother a whore, and calls our Savior a bastard - sorry to repeat this), yes, the evil kabbalah and talmud should be burned!

Frank
 
I'm not sure if the so-named Jerusalem talmud states similar or other evils as does the Babylonian (uneditied version) talmud does. If it does, it should be burnt to, because it is, in that case, nothing but a harborer of demons, and akin to the most vile writings of Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Ailce and Forster Bailey, and Alistair Crowley combined.
 
I'm not sure if the so-named Jerusalem talmud states similar or other evils as does the Babylonian (uneditied version) talmud does. If it does, it should be burnt too, because it is, in that case, nothing but a harborer of demons, and akin to the most vile writings of Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Ailce and Forster Bailey, and Alistair Crowley combined.

Frank
 
Bottom line:

No ONE person should be permitted to take over this blog!!!
 
To be clear, there are indeed Jewish peopel who follow the Holy Tanakh (Old Tesament) and uphold those edifying statements within the Torah (rhefirst 5 books of the Tanakh), notably Deuteronomy 18.

Yes, although many of these Jews are sadly blinded till the fulness of the Gentiles come in (some have accepted Jesus Christ already, and the NT), at least they have steered clear of kabbalah zohar and its witchcraft, as well as the evil talmud. Therefore, as opposed to the kabbalistic synagogue of Satan, these zohar-rejecting and tulmud-rejecting Jews are, I believe, no doubt those who Zechariah writes his record of what the Lord God has said: (Zechariah 12:10) "Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died."

Karaite Jews seem to be an example those to whom the words in Zechariah 12:10 address.

I, God willing, shall hopefully have the space to now be quiet a little, before it appears I am attempting to mimic Christine's blogger hogging and clogging.


Frank.
 
"Your reasoning sways like a drunkard from starboard to port," no it does not. There is an overall consistency.

yes Jesus' FAMILY His mother and sisters and brothers are those who do The Father's will. But the Jews are His RELATIVES AFTER THE FLESH, do you deny the Incarnation or His Jewish identity?

YAHWEH is the nearest correct pronunciation to YHVH the Name of God The Trinity and of each member thereof. Jehovah is an attempt put together by a Jesuit a long time ago. By the way, there is no hard J sound in Hebrew.

I do not swee whatever that means the guy who tore up the NT, but mass murder of his people is all he knows about it (and it doesn't even validate such mass murder!)

the Talmud consists of many separate tractates, only two of which are blasphemous. It consists of the often conflicting arguments of various rabbis, incl Ganaliel the teacher in Judaism of St. Paul when he was Saul, and Hillel on fine point of the Torah (incl. such issues as is a girl who was raped before a certain age rendered non virgin and therefore ineligible to be the wife of a priest, answer no it didn't count against her, but this is mishandled by antisemitic ranters as meaning the act was of no significance in terms of the man who did it which it does not say.)

St. Paul says that the Jews have been blinded for a time until the fullness of the Gentiles have come in.

Of course the nonsense about Jews having a divine spark and being elohim is nonsense, which the Torah (Genesis Exodus Numbers Leviticus Deuteronomy) does not say at all.

"divine spark" is a gnostic concept.

Some rabbis are very opposed to Kabbalah and consider it "a disease of the mind."

Dorothy admits in one of her posts she is not all that well versed in it, and frankly this other species stuff must be from part of the Zohar that was not printed for easy access to any damn fool, the sort of stuff probably referred to as too dangerous for the immature to run into so don't read before age 40. This is the first I have ever heard of it, aside from the idea of goyim as being cattle.

I don't pretend to be an expert in physics at all. I go by what various people who ARE experts and have taken the trouble to look into this stuff have said.

I do not promote New Age. If I am going along minding my own business, not trying to see auras and suddenly I can see something on someone, that is not New Age.

New Age is not about is there an energy body, something validated by that bit in Ecclesiastes, but that supposedly this proves we are gods, WHICH IT DOES NOT.

New Age is not about bilocation, which is validated here and there in The Bible, it is about claiming that since this proves there is something more than the physical body and it survives without the physical body, therefore this proves reincarnation, WHICH IT DOES NOT.

Taking note of the occult connections of political movements and politicians and Bohemian Grove and such like is not New Age, that is the exact same kind of research Constance Cumbey was doing regarding its infiltration into the churches and politics.

The only difference between the Republican and Democrat parties is that one moves slower in this direction than the other.

Individuals in either excepted.
 
why don't you people come over to my blog and post there?

no one ever says anything to me much, except for some satanist whose post I deleted and some better people whose posts are still there, but they are few. sniff sniff waaah.
http://politicallyunclassifiable.blogspot.com
 
Christine wrote: "why don't you people come over to my blog and post there?

no one ever says anything to me much, except for some satanist whose post I deleted and some better people whose posts are still there, but they are few. sniff sniff waaah.
http://politicallyunclassifiable.blogspot.com "

So it's out of jealosy that you're intent on derailing Constance's blog then, eh?
 
Anon at 2.07


Chrisitna is green with envy! No need to ask, it's as clear as day!
 
jealousy? what twisted line of nonthought are you working with?

anyone, Susanna, Dorothy, myself and others who continue the line of research Constance began (and was attacked for by fellow Christians) is immediately attacked here.

now, what have the illuminati (generic term) been up to the past several years? killing witnesses who undermine the official story on 9-11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvay28lZiHU
 
The Lord rebuke you, Christine, in Jesus' Name for your extreme need to defend and justify yourself and your non-stop onslaught that is supposed to be (?) contributing effectively to this blog. Let others say what they will and you prove yourself a humble servant (proving you can turn the other cheek) of the blog not a constant usurper of it. That would stop all of this. The ball is in your court so behave as a christian as you insist (but don't prove) you are.
 
Christina,

You are a beleiver in lies and a promoter of New Age myth. At the following link,

http://tinyurl.com/84jaso4 ,

we find you claiming:

Christine Erikson (aka Justina)5:02 PM

"1. he focusses on 2012, but that's the wrong date.
2. brown dwarf won't be visible in normal light
3. photos of it HAVE been leaked from the South Polar Telescope, and the photo result of processing radiotelescope results looks like an IR photo as it looks like.
4. something is on the other side of the sun from us now, many photos that are not sundogs and the camera moves to check for this, show something visible right near the sun, probably either nibiru firing up from proximity to the sun or reflecting light or an orbiter of it.
5. two peculiar disasters occured about 700 plus years apart, I have figured 738.5 years for the orbit, c. 200 BC and AD 536.
6.perturbations won't occur if it is coming in obliquely from way below the ecliptic, and the relevant planets are not in range of gravitational effect.
7. VERY odd stuff has been going on on Neptune, Jupiter, Saturn and Mars, incl. temperature increase and now an abnormal blood of oxygen in Venus' atmosphere. And we have global warming mostly caused by the sun, itself being stimulated by the approach of nibiru, and this brings up the electric universe theory, which was standard science in the late 1800s and early 1900s."

And again, where here you claim, without questioning such supposedly ancient sources integrity:


Christine Erikson (aka Justina)5:04 PM

"ahh, no reason to assume it would do us any harm
if it did happen. bah humbug. That would be entirely dependent on the position of relative to us and the sun at various times. the real hazard would be the debris field it is dragging, and an axis flip.
WHICH HAS HAPPENED MORE THAN ONCE IN THE PAST, according to ancient sources in old world and new world, the sun at various times rose in the west and set in the east, then later it got back to rising in the east and setting in the west."

No wonder you despise the grounded reasoning of professionals, and why you veer so far from that which is found in Holy Scripture.

At your blog, http://politicallyunclassifiable.blogspot.co.uk/
2011/09/looks-like-they-finally
-got-photo-of.html, which I don't suggest people read apart from to verify (unless you delete it), you state:

"FOR ONCE I THINK THIS IS A PHOTO OF NIBIRU! CONGRATS
TO THE PHOTOG AND TO YOU WHO POSTED IT1"

Next you'll be promoting Ben Creme's supposed Maitreya star, the Mayan calendar, and the end of civilization on Dec 21, 2012 ...

Why don't you stick to your blog. You're obviously, in your mind, far too savvy for any truthful debate.
 
Exactly right, 3:58 PM.

Frank
 
Absolutely correct, 4:14 Pm, great find!

Frank
 
2012 stuff is expletive deleted. even the Mayan elders say it is not end of world just reset of calendar.

The New Age is to blame for this 2012 hysteria. However, in context of this hysteria, you can find interesting stuff.

How many by the way are paying attention to the Herescope blog in Constance's links?

you might want to examine activities and teaching in your churches in light of the information in its archives.
 
I do wish we could be kinder to Christine.
 
Say Paul, Frank, the physicist and others, can't we go easier on her and get along?
 
Christine,
Now I feel bad because it seems everybody
is ganged up against you, so I'm stepping back and looking at the bigger picture and thinking how you really are my sister in Christ so please forgive me
if I judged you but I am reminded of II Timothy 4:3
where it says that the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but after theirt own lusts they shall heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away thei9r ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables.

So, I'm just saying, be careful.
I've had to apply this scripture to myself a few time already.
Forgive me please.
 
Christine, I agree with Paul's sentiments. I too am sorry for any hurt I've caused you. I do hope you base your beliefs in the Holy Bible and stand against that which goes against it. I have been harsh on Dorothy too. She perhaps knows no better than the way she approaches others sometimes. I should lead m,ore by example and have sadly failed in that. So please forgive me Christine and Dorothy.

Frank
 
I forgive you all.
 
I've gotta say at this point that I agree
with Frank and appreciate his comments,
but "Anonymous" is always someone that
I wonder about.
You mentioned agent(s)-provocateur, etc.
 
Thank you Paul.

I also understand your concerns. I for one want to see this blog get back to where it was and should be. It is needed! That's why I got so frustrated.

Frank
 
Paul, I also appreciate your comments and courage to stand up for truth and courage to apologize and lead by example. I have drawn strength from you to do what is right, having myself gone over the top before.

Once again thank you.

Frank
 
The Masonic origins of the Islamists movements

http://tinyurl.com/23dx2d5


Freemasonry in the Muslim World

"President Nasser violently abolished Freemasonry in 1961, having it been well and truly established in Egypt since at least 1798, the days of Napoleon’s exhibition, to the demise of the Masonic movement that ended in disrepute and chaos in 1922, – that then in turn led to the establishment of the Muslim Brotherhood [MB] founded in 1928, and that despite it being banned time and time again, has still survived and is present in almost all middle eastern countries.

The Muslim Brotherhood [MB] started off as a social organisation, preaching Islam, teaching the illiterate, [what the USA via the CIA done in Afghanistan for many years], setting up hospitals, [the Jesuits and Shriners come to mind], and even launched commercial enterprises, [sounds like the kind of activity the Rotary Club and Lions Club specialise in]. Then as the MB continued to rise in influence, starting in 1936, it began to oppose British rule in Egypt. Many Egyptian nationalists accuse the MB of violent killings during this period. After the 1948 Arab defeat in the First Arab-Israeli war, the Egyptian government dissolved the organisation and arrested its members; – its founder Hassan al-Banna was assassinated. [1]

After the Egyptian coup of 1952, which was supported by the MB, it was once again banned and repressed. Though the Brotherhood spread to other countries, it was suppressed there too: in 1982, Syria violently crushed a Brotherhood revolt [the Hama massacre]. Starting in the 1980s it entered Egypt’s political arena, forming alliances with other parties, and fielding “independent” candidates [if such a thing is possible?]. When in 2005, the MB won 20% of the seats, Hosni Mubarak cracked down on the group. As of 2011, the MB took an active part in the Egyptian protests, and are no doubt pulling the strings today in its present negotiations.

It’s interesting to note that Samir Raafat wrote an article in the Insight Magazine, on the 1st March 1999, titled: Freemasonry in Egypt- Is it still around? – Here’s a tiny extract: On the 4th April 1964, the Masonic Temple on Alexandria’s Toussoun Street was shut down by order of the Ministry of Social Affairs. The reason: “Associations with undeclared agendas were incompatible with rules covering non profit organisations.” Sufficiently disturbing evidence for the State to be concerned about Freemasonry’s political goals would turn up the following year in Damascus when master spy Eli Cohen was apprehended. Having eluded Syrian intelligence for many years posing as an Arab, it was discovered that Eli had been a Freemason in Egypt where he was born.

Yet despite the 1964 decree declaring the demise of Freemasonry in Egypt, loud cries of “not so” can still be heard. And if one were to concede to that Freemasonry was on the demise, then Ahmed Abdallah’s book: Freemasonry in Our Region 1985, highlights Freemasonry is alive and well in the guise of Rotary Clubs and other like-minded associations. “Having accomplished their earlier mission to establish a Jewish state, Masonic conspirators now intend to undermine Islam using charity work and community outreach as their tools” says Abdallah in his opening chapter. [2] He then consecrates a substantial portion of his elusive writing equating the “new Masonic cancer” with Rotary and Lions organisations and with Jehovah’s Witness, Freedom Now, Solar Tradition, New Age and several other “fringe” organisations..."

http://tinyurl.com/7we6w9t
 
A WARNING to Christians from the NWO and the NEW AGE-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpnxNw0XHk4
 
Christine wrote: "I don't pretend to be an expert in physics at all. I go by what various people who ARE experts and have taken the trouble to look into this stuff have said."

I wish that were so but it is demonstrably untrue. I have taken pains to knock down your arguments about physics in a way that Constance's readers can understand, but you almost never change your mind and you continue to mislead them. It is them for whom I now write.

Physicist
 
heh heh, read this and weep.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-02/27/rossi-roundup?page=all

respectable physicists are taking a second look.
 
"heh heh, read this and weep."

Christine, I would be delighted to be proved wrong about cold fusion. It would solve our energy problems and lead to some very interesting new physics. I continue to be skeptical of it, however, and for the sake of your own distaste for humble pie you would be wise not to exhibit any triumphalism at this stage. There is nothing new in that report, just an up-to-date summary of info that is already in the public domain and some hard questions for your position.

I have already explained to you that it can be rational to continue to explore the wilder fringes of science if the potential payoff is large enough. Such decisions can competently be made only by experts, however. If you REALLY believe that Rossi is onto something, borrow money and invest in it. Put up or shut up.

Physicist
 
I for one am glad for someone to hold Christine's feet to the fire. It is for her sake as much as for the rest of us so thank you, Physicist. I see there are some asking forgiveness for crossing a line..that's a good thing. But where is Christine's admission of need for forgiveness? How revealing is that?
 
if I was meaner than need be I am sorry. But nothing said here has impressed me, I have been reading up on stuff too long for that. Most of the comments are beside the point or misinterpret something like saying I say Kabbalah can be edited and used, I don't recommend it AT ALL for a Christian, I just don't think that an average Jew's mild exposure to it adds up to satanism.
 
I might add, that regarding the old brawl about bluffing and WW 3 there are better experts on politics than physicist who say the same thing and some add that the Russians do not bluff.

Meanwhile take a look at how close asteroid illapa is going to be on Aug. 12. and a zapaday.com if you put in Illapa and then go to calendar you will find several potentially hazardous objects closer than that in the next few months.

as I said, nibiru or no nibiru, we may have trouble and for WHATEVER reason there has been an uptick of volcanos and earthquakes. Oh by the way catch wikipedia on the Richter Scale. Seems it got revised, downwards. While it is not exactly an exact one whole notch off, the new scale is based on damage done rather than strength of quake itself, which is why some people are surprised that a 4.0 does so much damage sometimes - its because it is more like a 5.0.
 
Thanks for that comeback Christine. Just as a clarification, I do not care if anyone is impressed or not, I do not care if people agree or not (not why i come here but wonderful when that happens-we're just people after all). What I have been looking for in an open forum of discussion such as this place, is well presented facts and/or conjecture given in a humble teachable tone. I don't believe that too much to ask of people who say that Jesus Christ is their Lord. My hope is that much more respect will be given to everyone who visits here. I had quit directing people to this site in the last few months because of behaviors that got in the way of real dialogue. Perhaps the tone can change here? I certainly hope and pray so.
 
perhaps "read and weep" was an example of meaner than I need to be. I apologize for that phrase, should have posted the link and left that part out.

but if the issue is that something is not obeying the usual laws of physics, then either there is fraud, misinterpretation or it is possible to get around the usual laws of physics sometimes. and that is an issue you have never been willing even to consider.

even though the physics and electronics we do now would have been dismissed by a 19th century equivalent of you (and many others, its not just you). so perhaps you should be humble enough to consider that. and do some experiments or get someone to do them.

an interesting aside, one guy's stuff only worked when he used platinum coated lab equipment. not otherwise. Ah. a catalyst was needed he didn't know he was using. that wasn't outside laws of physics, but the results he did get were a tad, er, wierd. and of course dismissed the minute he found some cancer backed off to it, and made the mistake of thinking all cancer did - besides, cancer researchers don't want a cure, that would spoil the big money on chemo and research.
 
I am very dubious about most prophecy experts especially since they usually support the totally unbiblical and fairly new (early 1800s) idea of rapture as escape from persecution.

But here is why I think we are moving into the end times.

The four horsemen - the rider of the black horse would seem to fit the present time, with the pale horse (not white but a color dilute like a perlino or cremello, something people in those days would already have recalled among massacre happy turkic and scythic people's horses) segueing in.

plague, the sword, famine and beasts of the field will kill 1/4 of humanity. A lot of this is going on now, with peculiar increases in wild animal attacks, partly due to encroachment on their turf. It is like phasing in.

the chemical biological warfare buildup in capability (incl. ours
however illegal) and evidence of plans to depopulate using accidentally on purpose released pathogens, and WW 3 or not, plenty of wars going on everywhere, fit this picture.

even the disasters of smaller asteroids etc. could facilitate this.

THE BIG ISSUE TO ME, that GETS MY ATTENTION, is Rev. 6 where it speaks of the various categories of people hiding underground or in caves,

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING PREPARED NOW, in many countries, by elites and by those with money to do so on their own. Much of it here is tax supported, huge Deep Underground Military Bases for the Continuity of Government project, which DOES NOT INCLUDE THE AVERAGE CITIZEN, FEMA camps would be the most refuge we would get.

The description of the worldwide catastrophe fits EXACTLY what you would see if a crustal displacement or an axis flip or just displacement occurred. Nibiru would fit nicely as a trigger in this also, but might in fact not exist, still, its existence would fit nicely into this picture.

Since not only do stars fall (and the sudden apparent shift of stars above darting towards the horizon as the crust or perhaps the whole earth rolls would fit this) but the heavens roll up like a scroll that would fit the smoke and dust clouds from supervolcanos going off world wide as you could expect.

volcanic winter would mean famine, also a part of the fourth horseman's scene, which I why I suspect an overlap.

And the angels are told to restrain the winds, which is exactly what would be needed to mitigate the effects of a humongous asteroid hit as per National Geographic on TV and/or an axis displacement.

So right now, all the conspiracy and corruption and secret rogue intelligence operations research, and oddball geology, and stuff like that, FIT LIKE A JIGSAW PUZZLE and it points to Revelation 6 as where we are now.

The problem is when people have assumed these remarks are not literal, and look to refer to political events and overthrows in places they are used to and think the world revolves around, like Europe or America, and it doesn't.

While such exaggerated language MIGHT figure to some extent to refer to overthrow of kings and their world orders in OT, this scenario is so detailed and brief and not very poetic, it sounds literal.
 
Christine and others,

I believe that there are two main pointers why we are in the end times: globalization and the return of a Jewish State in the holy Land. The first is explicitly prophesied in Revelation (and will culminate in a world government), and the 2nd is necessary for the fulfilment of many OT prophecies (and is arguably explicit in some of the prophets). Let's not get clouded by detail.
 
"if the issue is that something is not obeying the usual laws of physics, then either there is fraud, misinterpretation or it is possible to get around the usual laws of physics sometimes. and that is an issue you have never been willing even to consider."

If something really is not obeying the laws of physics then it is time to nominate for Nobels. The question is what is going on when something APPEARS not to obey the laws of physics. Is it experimental error, fraud (not unknown in the past in regard to perpetual motion machines) or have we really got the laws of physics wrong?

Experimentalists are well aware of the fallibility of themselves and their apparatus and do a lot of rechekcing and requesting of independent verification in other laboratories. Fraud is worth suspecting when money is involved, and invariably comes out with time when the machine does not do what is claimed. And on rare and exalted occasions you really do get a new result that leads to new physics. If, Christine, you spent time getting to know physicists then you would get a better understanding of what motivates us and how the scientific community behaves (in which regard, do not forget that the exception proves the rule).

"even though the physics and electronics we do now would have been dismissed by a 19th century equivalent of you"

I sjuspect you would like to categorize me as represnting a juggernaut "establishment" in sicnece, and the people who get different answers in their backyard experiments as little men heroically battling the evil establishment. Please do not export your worldview of how business gets done into how science gets done; it is a false analogy. All physicists know the crucial experiments done to test the laws of pyscis, and the accuracy to which they have now been established.

"perhaps you should be humble enough to consider that. and do some experiments or get someone to do them."

We physicists read avidly the results of the latest experiments, eg the Higgs boson. New discoveries are always exciting. What, then are your grounds for supposing that we are closed-minded?

Physicist

PS I don't claim to be an expert on politics, only on physics; but where I see unjustified assumptions, I call them out in the spirit of debate.
 
if something doesn't obey the laws of physics as we know them, then we just haven't discovered all of them yet, the conditions under which some come into play that don't normally operate.

that's why I keep saying, go reproduce the experiments yourself - I don't have money or access to equipment - and be sure to do every detail exactly down to not just type of stuff but composition that got the results, because somewhere in that mix is something that is doing it, and it may not be a matter of say, how many winds of wire, but how many winds of what KIND of wire.

some experiments have varied per time of day - no, I don't buy astrology or anything like that, but ambient ion conditions could play a role.

which leads to another problem. If these things are all that sensitive to trace conditions, they may never be as reliably useable as the sledgehammer but reliable stuff we are used to.

an interesting story about Nazi experiments in making a super weapon was that the results could fly, but couldn't launch a weapon, all they (foo fighters) were good for was being distractive to allied pilots, and inducing equipment failures in planes when close enough.

Take Searle and his disk. Here we have the unfortunate and not atypical combination of someone with a good idea but a real bad case of ego and romanticism.

So this generator will fly and punch a hole in the roof and make a mess. A close analysis of the setup shows there is hardly any place inside a large proposed model that would be safe for pilots or passengers from the field!

so what good is it? this gives even me pause.

ooog, what a lawsuit, imagine a company selling these things for household power, small and bolted down and it breaks loose and smacks into a plane on the way to wherever.....
 
"if something doesn't obey the laws of physics as we know them, then we just haven't discovered all of them yet, the conditions under which some come into play that don't normally operate.
that's why I keep saying, go reproduce the experiments yourself - I don't have money or access to equipment - and be sure to do every detail exactly down to not just type of stuff but composition that got the results, because somewhere in that mix is something that is doing it, and it may not be a matter of say, how many winds of wire, but how many winds of what KIND of wire."

Christine, you are just beginning to think like a physicist here. That is good. Two points: (1) no one person can possibly go do all the experiments needed, which is why science is a cooperative enterprise that publishes its findings; (2) we HAVE tested today's theories to high accuracy under very diverse conditions. Unless you know in detail what experiments have been done, do not criticise. We welcome informed criticism. We are tired of uninformed criticism.

Physicist
 
you still don't get it. the problem is not do today's theories hold up, but rather, under what conditions does something we have missed come into play?

at what point do you get the zero point energy phenomenon if at all and yes some "over unity" results have occurred.

Now I bring up "do the experiments" OVER AND OVER and physicist who presumably has access to equipment and people could do something but he doesn't. I have no money, no access.

But you have to reproduce EXACTLY
in EVERY detail what was done that did work, if it says use neodynium magnets for instance, don't use any other kind. it may not be a matter of how many winds of wire but of what KIND of wire.
 
What if Physicist is a man, but a woman first did the experiment? That sort of thing he cannot repeat, even if he tries to fake it by putting on a dress. (Sorry, just alittle humor.) Yeah, says everybody else, very little.
 
wow. what straining to make a point Christine. don't bust something in all that effort.
 
I assume everyone here knows that the high proton-neutron count heavy atoms Uraninum and upwards decay and fission, did you know not all of them will do a chain reaction that is why Uranium needs purification to get the right isotope? But how many know that Lithium and Beryllium also fission if hit, but won't chain? Beryllium's capacity to provide extra neutrons is what makes the suitcase nuke possible.

now, if neodynium magnets do something other magnets don't, or do it a lot better, there has to be something odd about its electron spin or something else. Maybe we already know it but don't understand its implications.

This is just one example.
 
Hi Constance

Many thanks for uploading the 1979 flyer of the The Mind-Body-Spirit festival. I was involved (heavily) with a meditation/spiritual organisation which has, since 2002, annually participated in this event at London Olympia.

The Foundation for International Spiritual Unfoldment now has training centers in many countries, (UK Headquarters).

I was part of this organisation from the late 90’s for eight years. I’m so glad I left. (What happened to me was that I began (a long story) to pay far more attention to the Bible).

I still have copies of transcriptions that I used to type out from recorded ‘satsangs’ on audio cassette tape. The following is an excerpt from 2004 wherein I quote the ‘guru’ as saying:

“..This organisation is important above all others in re-educating humanity in the truth. The gospels of Christ 2000 years ago have served their purpose and have served their purpose well. But now, for man of modern day age this message is not sufficient for him to understand and realise divinity… he now needs a new set of rules a new way of experiencing that divinity or truth …I have said and I’ve said it many times again that our work here is so very important in this new era of spiritual education. …”

He could just be a megalomaniac, but there is something alarming about how he wants us to abandon exclusive Christianity for a religion of universalism (all people will eventually be saved regardless of who they are, what they have done and who they have worshiped.) I think that last line might be a quote from Dorothy way back in the day!

Gnostic thought is prevalent in everyday conversation these days.

I have visited your pages for a number of years now and I appreciate all you efforts.

Lorna, UK
 
Interesting you raise the issue of megalomania. I have noticed quite an overlap, between what the west recognizes as mental illness, and what the hindu east and gnosticism calls enlightenment.
 
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/wp-content/uploads/Hidden-Luciferians-in-the-Christian-Culture%E2%80%94Part-1-2.pdf
 
"I assume everyone here knows that the high proton-neutron count heavy atoms Uraninum and upwards decay and fission, did you know not all of them will do a chain reaction that is why Uranium needs purification to get the right isotope? But how many know that Lithium and Beryllium also fission if hit, but won't chain? Beryllium's capacity to provide extra neutrons is what makes the suitcase nuke possible."

Christine, this is a blog about New Age and most readers won't have a clue about even the accurate version of what you write above. Why throw this in?

"now, if neodynium magnets do something other magnets don't, or do it a lot better, there has to be something odd about its electron spin or something else. Maybe we already know it but don't understand its implications."

I presume you mean neodymium. The production of magnetism by the alignment of electron spins inside a solid is an excellent piece of 20th century physics, and the related but as-yet unexplained phenomenon of (relatively) high-temperature superconductivity means that we still have things to learn about the subject. But the magnetic field *outside* a neodymium-based permanent magnet (or any other) has no 'memory' that it is from a neodymium source. The only thing that neodymium does is give you a stronger magnetic field. If you are saying that unconventional physics is going on outside the neodymium (your words are not clear), that has nothing to do with the electron spins inside the material, as I think you are suggesting.

Zero point energy is a consequence of the quantum description of various phenomena as harmonic oscillators. But the theory does not predict it is possible to tap into this energy, and the area has proved a fertile one for cranks. Again, I'm content to say it won't happen and to eat humble pie if proved wrong. If you believe it then go invest in it. Even one dollar would give thousands in return if someone was successful.

"you still don't get it. the problem is not do today's theories hold up, but rather, under what conditions does something we have missed come into play?"

Christine, you clearly don't *want* to get it. I have explained multiple times above what the true situation is.

Physicist
 
you don't seem to "want" to get it that there is more than what you think the true situation is, and merely repeating yourself without bothering to look into the matters, which would mean reading many books and articles and watching many videos, is not winning my respect, but making me more dubious than ever of the value of modern higher education.

I gave you links to some brief articles that described tests that had results not as good as expected but beyond what should have happened.

you dismissed that as not worth reading about if it can be described in a paragraph.

Ever hear of an "abstract?" any physics paper will have a one or two paragraph ABSTRACT so any paper from Cambridge is about something that can be described in one or two paragraphs.

If you were any kind of an investigator, you would take the paragraphs and look for the source and keep digging.

by your own admission, you feared errors in the laboratory so went into theoretical physics, which is of course, to judge by your description, nice and safe.

please, you make me irritated. I get your points all along, what you don't get is I am talking about work that goes BEYOND those points.

now as for neodynium magnets, and other rare earth involved magnets, I am not saying anything about superconductors, nor am I interested in anything that has to be kept at outrageous low temperatures to work. Such a thing is so dependent on conditions being maintained that are extreme, that it is as good as useless.

I also am not interested in what you say, because IN PRACTICE rare earth magnets have been found to be necessary to get the Searle Effect to work, and I think in some other stuff as well.
 
"Zero point energy is a consequence of the quantum description of various phenomena as harmonic oscillators. But the theory does not predict it is possible to tap into this energy"

aha, so your regular physics does allow it? but the theory doesn't allow tapping it? then the theory is by definition wrong because if something exists it has to be tappable even if not done yet.

Now, among the information you scorned because it was only a paragraph or two paragraphs, were
references to results that DO indicate it was tapped somewhat.

But tapping it requires some special stuff, not just any old whatever from radio shack or the usual lab equipment school supply store, more specialized.

As to why I threw that in about beryllium, it was in answer to the immediate prior post. are you blind, drunk or what? why ask me such a question?

meanwhile, the New Age crew exploits the quantum and ZPE stuff to support stuff it doesn't support, like many decades ago the occultists and proto New Agers exploited magnetic positive negative poles for their purposes.
 
http://www.quora.com/Physics/Why-do-new-age-people-relate-Quantum-Physics-to-so-many-things

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/views/qm-cr.htm

these are more on topic posts
 
"you don't seem to "want" to get it that there is more than what you think the true situation is, and merely repeating yourself without bothering to look into the matters, which would mean reading many books and articles and watching many videos, is not winning my respect, but making me more dubious than ever of the value of modern higher education."

Reading many books and articles and watching many videos? Christine, I went to physics lectures and did countless 'homework' problems for four years to get my degree. Then I was apprenticed to original research for three years under a doctoral supervisor. I got my doctorate and have done many years of research. So I'm not very interested in trashy books and videos. As I said, I'm content to wait out cold fusion, zero-point energy tapping and other free-energy schemes until someone does it; then I'll eat humble pie. I know that you don't like that attitude, but I ceased to seek your respect when it became obvious that you were not making any effort to understand what I was saying, when I tried to educate you on some basic physics. I now write to save Constance's readers from being misled.

"aha, so your regular physics does allow it? but the theory doesn't allow tapping it? then the theory is by definition wrong because if something exists it has to be tappable even if not done yet."

That is false. As an analogy, if everybody is stuck on a plateau any unable to jump off it then they cannot exploit any of the gravitational potential energy that they possess - that is, they cannot turn it into kinetic energy.

Show a little humility. Not to me, but to the physics profession. Here is one of many papers written recently, culled from the arXiv at random (no I don't know any of the authors personally):

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1205.5659v1.pdf

As you will appreciate by looking at it, it takes many years to reach the point where you can understand what the authors are saying, let alone undertake original research.

"As to why I threw that in about beryllium, it was in answer to the immediate prior post. are you blind, drunk or what? why ask me such a question?"

You wrote that at 1:14PM and the preceding post is from an Anon (not me) at 11:49AM and says (in full) "wow. what straining to make a point Christine. don't bust something in all that effort."

Physicist
 
sorry, I goofed, what I should have written was that I was responding to the post at 11:08 before that one.
 
I understand what you are saying, I don't agree that it is relevant. how hard is that for you to understand?

how do you know those books and videos are trashy? I don't reference the cultic emotive trashy ones. Tom Valone is the best on the block I think. There is also a good overview THE HUNT FOR ZERO POINT.

One of the things that made me take a close look at Valone, was that he was the object of a peculiar attack by some kind of wierdo or perhaps entity trying to turn someone off him. Also another person, who I decided to ignore for the New Age or something angle on him, but the technology at issue in both cases seemed workable. Something someone didn't want someone paying attention to.
 
http://vimeo.com/8095612

The New Age Infiltration of the Truth Movement, NAM agents put into the anti NWO movement.

What is typical is they give fairly good information on the NWO external political stuff, maybe add some blood and guts politically incorrect activities of some, but then present "Christ consciousness" or something similar as a solution.

Many times they are a good quick source of info, just ignore the NAM elements. Ideally, find non infiltrator run materials.
 
http://christianfaithinamerica.com/2011/01/28/worthy-to-suffer-for-his-sake/

that Christians are so worried about prosperity is probably in part a result of New Age thinking infiltration, which of course appeals to the flesh. http://www.herescope.blogspot.com/
check the archives for articles about this sort of thing.
 
Christine,

I don't need you to give me references about zeropoint energy. In a student exercise, I have solved the equations that predict it. When you are able to do that, we can have a serious discussion about it. On the basis of what I have learned about it I shall continue to assert there is no way to tap it, and if someday I am proved wrong then I shall admit it and apologise.

Small children have no education and therefore believe anything you tell them. That is why it is important that they be taught well. In the field of physics, you seem to believe anything that clashes with the mainstream physics community. I am glad that you have the freedom to waste your time with such stuff, but I have real research to get on with.

I have, incidentally, written a long essay on New Age abuse of quantum theory - Susanna has seen it. If Constance chooses to start a thread by writing a blog contribution on the subject, I would have plenty to say.

You wrote: "As to why I threw that in about beryllium, it was in answer to the immediate prior post. are you blind, drunk or what? why ask me such a question?"

I replied: "You wrote that at 1:14PM and the preceding post is from an Anon (not me) at 11:49AM and says (in full) 'wow. what straining to make a point Christine. don't bust something in all that effort.' "

You replied: "sorry, I goofed, what I should have written was that I was responding to the post at 11:08 before that one."

Christine, the only post on this thread timed 11:08 was by an Anon satirist (not me!) and began: "What if Physicist is a man, but a woman first did the experiment?..."

And you have the effrontery to ask me if I am blind or drunk.

Physicist
 
"Ever hear of an "abstract?" any physics paper will have a one or two paragraph ABSTRACT so any paper from Cambridge is about something that can be described in one or two paragraphs."

Yes Christine, I have written several dozen abstracts in my own research.

"by your own admission, you feared errors in the laboratory so went into theoretical physics, which is of course, to judge by your description, nice and safe."

What strange twisting of my words is that? I said I was better at theoretical than practical physics, so I went into the former. I avoided doing what I was less competent at and stuck to what I was better at (a lesson you would do well to learn). Physicists do not think in terms of fear but of risk, and theoreticians also run the risk of making mistakes - in our published calculations, and of having our theories disproved by experiment.

If you want to talk nonsense about science, might I suggest that you do it on your own blog rather than at a forum about the New Age?

Physicist
 
"What strange twisting of my words is that? I said I was better at theoretical than practical physics, so I went into the former. I avoided doing what I was less competent at and stuck to what I was better at "

here are your words

"you need to realise that when people do experiments they sometimes make mistakes. I certainly did in high school physics, which is why I specialised in theoretical physics"
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=11772087&postID=4317246364499123264

now, you argue this and that can't happen because of laws of physics I argue it HAS happened so something is wrong with what we know, or something is wrong with the interpretation.

As for tapping the zero point, which you finally admit quantum physics says exists but doesn't admit for tappability, why don't you locate "
FEASIBILITY STUDY
OF ZERO-POINT ENERGY EXTRACTIONFROM THE QUANTUM VACUUM FOR THE PERFORMANCE OF USEFUL WORK" by Tom Valone which will give you incidents and mathematics that argue this stuff does fit into quantum physics.

no point prodding you to try experiments yourself, anyway. end of subject.

I try to get on another subject and you keep bringing it back to this.
 
Excellent article on dangers of alternative medicine

http://wayoflife.org/files/13457265112fc6a7d1d9e5c67cd742b7-68.html

two excerpts:

Another misconception is that alternative health care is merely the wise use of the natural healing properties found in nature and in the body itself.

It is true, of course, that the divinely-designed human body has amazing powers of healing, and God, in His bountiful grace, has placed a great many things in the world for man’s benefit. But we will see that this is far from the whole issue when it comes to the field of holistic health.

MY COMMENT though initially I was impressed with homeopathy and used it to some good effect I realized a problem lay in the process of shaking the water at each stage. In this, you have the opportunity for the water to be charged not so much with the signature of the dilute chemical, but the intention of the homeopathist.

And what else might come with this intention slipping along unintended? I stopped using it and won't touch anything with a item and X and number in the ingredients because that is homeopathic designation of an amount.

second excerpt:


Another misconception is that we can “eat the fish and spit out the bones.”

In other words, even if there are wrong elements within the field of alternative health care, the individual can choose that which is good and helpful and avoid the error. For the following two simple reasons, though, we reject this philosophy. First, when dealing with the occult we are dealing with the devil, and he is very clever and powerful. This is why the Bible exhorts us to stay away from every occultic thing. Eve was not tainted by sin and was in a perfect environment, yet she was deceived by the devil’s wiles. “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour” (1 Peter 5:8). Second, this philosophy assumes that the average Christian today is capable of exercising the keen spiritual discernment necessary to detect subtle error, and this simply is not the case. The average believer today is biblically ignorant and carnal and grossly lacking in the level of education necessary for such a task. And I am referring to the average member of the typical Bible-believing church. Randall Baer, a former naturopathic doctor, says: “I see this field as being a mixture of positive and negative. Three ingredients of wholesome and six ingredients of New Age. Nine ingredients of healthy and twenty of the New Age. In this tricky, subtle, holistic health field, discernment is at a premium” (Inside the New Age Nightmare, p. 154). Such discernment is far beyond the average Christian today.

My remark: definitely true. now if you can sort stuff out, fine. But the average Christian can't so should stay away, and how many people especially with the modern health and prosperity gospel exposures, or even without them, are likely to think that if it makes you feel "peace" it is okay?

There are MANY kinds of feelings that can be called "peace," incl. something that a girl who later became a Manson girl and participated in the murders felt, when she lay down in a coffin, at the behest of Anton LaVey, before she ever met Manson, and against her feelings left over from Christian upbringing.

In the strictly mundane chemical scene, drugs can give you relief from pain and internal conflicts caused by family abuse, sexual abuse (especially if in one's family) and so forth, but then set you up for a new and different kind of slavery and numbing of conscience and increase of boldness so you can more easily do soul destroying things like prostitution to support it.

which by the way is one of the reasons the client of these people is so evil, without the client the prostitute wouldn't exist, you can't sell anything without a market.

(too stupid to masturbate or too lazy to wait for the routine spontaneous ejaculation in sleep that relieves the buildup of pressure of seminal fluid.)
 
Christine,

ABSTRACT

Fact # 1 : He's a Physicist.

Fact #2 : You're not.

That's the end of the subject.
Do yourself a favor and apologize and admit
that you know NOTHING about Zero Point energy,
which is essentially an internet legend.
I used to have Tom Vallone on my bookmarks
bar so I could go there every day and take it all
in. Then I realized that it was just my own wishful thinking that we could have all the energy in the universe at our fingertips, and all FOR FREE!
Who wouldn't want to believe that ?
But it ain't happening.
Get over it.
 
Christine: Thank you for quoting my words. Now everybody can see how you twisted them by supposing that I specialised in theoretical rather than experimental physics out of fear. The truth is that I felt a calling - which I am not ashamed to call love - which was confirmed by my differing capabilities in theoretical and practical physics.

"no point prodding you to try experiments yourself, anyway. end of subject."

Free-energy proposals that don't work have a long history and I am willing to sit out zeropoint energy and cold fusion and apologise if I turn out to be wrong. I am satisfied with that position and if you find it irritating then it's not my problem. I have no point to make; if you do then you go do the experiment. Instead of making excuses, do something that would win you some respect among scientists.

"As for tapping the zero point, which you finally admit quantum physics says exists but doesn't admit for tappability..."

Finally admit? Show me where I was reluctant to admit it. I learned about it years ago. I do theoretical physics, you do rhetorical physics.

Physicist
 
sun rising in west and setting in east - two thoughts occurred to me. God "Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever." Ps. 104:5 Septuagint "He established the earth on its stable foundations, it shall not be moved unto ages of ages." (Ps. 103:5 in LXX)

now what does "moved" mean? this doesn't refute rotabion or orbit, only indicates these will not be disturbed in any meaningful way.

now, what about the division of the earth in Peleg's time? while many think this means only social division by language confusion at Babel, this could also be physical, the breakup of Pangea which scientists think happened millions of years ago, young earthers would put a few thousand years ago, both could agree it happened.

Why not divide by language AND geography?

in such a situation, the APPEARANCE of change of location of sunrise could easily occur, as continents separated and rotated somewhat from their original single landmass described in Genesis chapter 1.

And after some additional shifting, or perhaps just travel of the people, the old memory of change of direction of sunrise would pertain, and the present correctly observed sunrise, and this whole thing be interpreted as involving a change of the sun's motion (geocentric) or earth's axis position (heliocentric).

So axis flip may be out of the question for Revelation 6, but crustal displacement is not. As the surface moves, those on the surface would see the stars APPEAR to move quickly down towards the horizon instead of setting at their normal rate.
 
"which... is one of the reasons the client of these people is so evil, without the client the prostitute wouldn't exist, you can't sell anything without a market."

You can't buy it if nobody is selling either. In Mosaic Law God does not outlaw prostitution, He simply disapproves of it, and I take the same view. If a woman has fallen on hard times and a man is so desperate for sex that he is willing to pay, God appears to take the view that a free contract should be permitted as a lesser evil than the various alternatives. The man does not wish to do harm to anybody and I do not think it is right to single him out as evil. The man who pimps the girls is the evil one.

"too stupid to masturbate or too lazy to wait for the routine spontaneous ejaculation in sleep that relieves the buildup of pressure of seminal fluid."

Do you really believe that all celibate men (including monks) either masturbate or have wet dreams? Semen that is not ejaculated is broken down naturally inside the male body.
 
To Christine at 10:22am and 10:35am

Why can't you put this stuff on your own blog?
 
excuse me, Mosaic Law specifies that you shall not prostitute your daughter, it says no Israelite woman shall be a prostitute, and the prohibition on adultery, hits essentially at ALL forms of fornication because adulteration as about defiling the self as well as a relationship, and in the wilderness, the men who went into sexual impurity with Moabite women were KILLED, and

the pimp would have no motive to corrupt or coerce women and girls if there were no clients.

sure a lot of prostitutes are evil as hell and go out of their way to corrupt men and other women.

the issues of seminal fluid and what to do with it are the arguments given by the unchaste.

I don't know where you get the idea the Mosaic Law was soft on prostitution. Indeed, in Habakuk men are warned God will no longer punish their wives and daughters who go awhoring (ref. to Deut. I think it is where there is a divinely empowered test of a suspected wife to condemn or clear her), because the men are going to the harlots and prostitutes, BOTH the cult and secular versions are at issue.

No sex was to be done during the time of military service, nothing unclean no uncleanness total purity
you couldn't even crap in the camp had to go outside, and ANY seminal emission whether sex in marriage or masturbation or whatever made one unclean until the following evening. and David when getting the shewbread for his men said they had been kept from women.

how about incest? eh?

when you sleep around and these women who are professionals or just roaming about screwing everything get pregnant, no one knows the father.

daughter of prostitute or of loose woman grows up to be the same. dirty old man gets in on with new fresh meat in town (especially if he travels a lot), maybe it is his own daughter.

or a younger man may be having sex with his half sister.

or the other option is abortion, usually by potions in those days as contraception wasn't that well developed.

you CANNOT have unchastity without these risks, as early Christians pointed out in denouncing unchaste men in pagan society. Christian men were to be chaste as much as women, and St. Paul spends a lot of time demanding celibacy of ALL unmarried men male chastity is emphasized probably because fleshly worldly pagan thinking people like you thought it didn't matter, and people came into Christianity with this baggage.

In one case, some drunken soldiers grabbed a Christian man back in Roman days, to test the reputed chastity of Christian men. They tied him down on a soft silky bed to make seduction easier, and had a prostitute crawl all over him to try to get an erection out of him she could use.

And he bit through his tongue to prevent having an erection.
 
Why are you ranting about the various Mosaic laws about sexual purity Christine? We were talking about prostitution. Give me chapter and verse from the Pentateuch that forbid a single man from paying a widow for sex. Not that God approves, of course, but when God gave the Law He sometimes had to choose the lesser of two evils. Remember that the Law would never have been necessary but for human sin.

"the issues of seminal fluid and what to do with it are the arguments given by the unchaste."

Huh? You said that in the absence of sexual intercourse it had to be removed by masturbation or wet dreams, ie it can only be removed by ejaculation, and I corrected you by pointing out that it can be broken down inside the male body. Everybody makes mistakes; kindly have the grace to admit that you were wrong on this occasion.

Anon of 10.47am
 
I answered the arguments the unchaste make for their behavior. I did not address breakdown or reabsorption because these are not even on their radar.

Rival views of reabsorption are that it is unhealthy and can lead to prostate cancer, and contrary that it can build some kind of physical and paraphysical health. A whole school of tantric yoga practice involved seminal retention during sex and reabsorption and redirection of semen (confused in part with sex energy).

Whatever. I MADE NO ERROR I SIMPLY DID NOT ADDRESS A MATTER THAT IS NOT CONSIDERED BY THESE PEOPLE.

Now, you don't need chapter and verse. the Torah wasn't read as just chapter and verse but a whole thing.

Judah went to a prostitute and found it was his daughter in law Tamar tricking him into making her pregnant. This constructive incest by in law relationship is a slam against the whole levirate marriage custom that was sharply limited to the man who LIVED WITH THE COUPLE at the brother or close relative's death,

the whole focus of sex is relationship connected from the start.

Read Numbers when the Israelite men had orgies with the Moabite women and WERE KILLED FOR IT, 20 or 30 thousand died in a plague and it wasn't VD that takes decades to kill.

Sex was NOWHERE EXPLICTLY PERMITTED OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE OR STABLE MARRIAGE EQUIVALENT RELATIONSHIP aka concubinage. polygamy was limited and when a woman was a concubine if her food, clothing or "marital due" sex was reduced for another woman she could leave without paying back the bride price.

Exodus 21.

The general rule you see is that the active role player is targetted by the Torah, in seduction, and in the case of homosexuality "you shall not lie with a man as you would with a woman" does that mean only the male role player is condemned and not the effeminate? of course not. But the party considered okay by popular double standards and so forth is targetted, and the passive as well.

whoredom was constantly held up as evil and the symbol of unfaithfulness to YHWH.

this understanding was clear in Jewish minds by the Hellenistic time, as one remarked that where slaves increase unchastity increases.

prostitutes existed, and by some casuistry were not always shut down, if not in some category like a priest's daughter that would mandate the death penalty.

But the young man who can be killed by his parents, who is taken to the city elders and accused of not just disobedience but drunkenness and glottony, these terms go beyond booze and food in implication of self indulgent, think this boy was still a virgin? think again.

the kind of game you are playing is what progressively brought Israel down, and that the prophets were always denouncing, and the kings were warned in Deut. not to increase wives to themselves, IN ADDITION to not taking foreign wives.

unchastity weakens the soul. the essential corruption involved makes other corruption easier.

St. Paul said that if a man were a fornicator, and was a Christian, fellow Christians should ostracize him, I Corinthians chapters 6 and 7

if one has sex with a harlot he is one body with her, THE SEX ACT MAKES THE TWO ONE FLESH he cites Genesis and the issue of being holy in body.

And what does OT says? "be thou holy as I am holy" God tells the people incl. men.
 
Christine, you got it wrong about the fate of semen. Let Constance's readers see what you and I wrote and decide for themselves. And you have failed to give a chapter and verse of Mosaic Law that forbids a single man from having consensual sex, with or without payment, with a widow. Shouting by using capital letters, and lengthening your posts by changing the subject and discussing godly sexual ethics, does not change these facts. I agree that God deplores such an act. That is not the question. The question is whether God prohibits it in the Law of Moses. You say He does, so in which chapter and verse of the Pentateuch?
 
"Rival views of reabsorption are that it is unhealthy and can lead to prostate cancer, and contrary that it can build some kind of physical and paraphysical health. A whole school of tantric yoga practice involved seminal retention during sex and reabsorption and redirection of semen (confused in part with sex energy)."

You are talking about the (dubious) practice of deliberately reaching orgasm without ejaculation. I am talking about what happens when a godly man such as a monk lives a celibate life. You are throwing up a smokescreen, so let me ask you a direct if distasteful question: What do you say happens to the semen that this monk's body naturally produces? Please don't duck this question.
 
I am not blowing up a smokescreen, I covered the various views on the subject of seminal reabsorption, some say it is bad some say it is good. And the whole subject isn't even considered by the unchaste men, except for those who argue it is bad for your health.

As for what happens in a monk, sometimes there will be a spontaneous emission in sleep like any other man. This is usually taken by some EO as uncleanness that prevents taking the Eucharist, as does menstruation in a woman, though this has been a debate from early times to now.

After long celibacy, and a habit of redirecting attention and strength elsewhere, I suspect the seminal production will decrease.

But nocturnal emission will occur in a monk unless it doesn't.

This sort of thing is sometimes feared as potentially feeding demons, as does masturbation or any seminal loss or energy release in orgasm. In the Middle Ages the phenomenon itself of spontaneous emission was sometimes blamed on succubae, female incubus demons who specialize in sex, especially if an erotic dream were involved. Which is silly. Not that in some cases it isn't the case, but nocturnal emission is a simple case of hydraulics where an escape leak route exists and fluid is being put into a system.

Fasting incl. less water probaby forces the body to produce less unnecessary stuff like seminal fluid.
 
"nocturnal emission is a simple case of hydraulics where an escape leak route exists and fluid is being put into a system."

Nocturnal emission is an orgasm in one's sleep, not a slow leak. Generally it is associated with a sexual dream. It's not difficult to see why God regards it as unclean.

"Fasting incl. less water probaby forces the body to produce less unnecessary stuff like seminal fluid."

Unnecessary? You and I would not be here but for it.

Perhaps we can agree to finish this subject now.
 
I didn't say it was a slow leak. It would be nice if you would read carefully. In any hydraulic system, where a leak opening exists, and fluid builds up it will eventually go through that weak point, and under pressure.

Seminal fluid is unnecessary to the individual's continued physical existence. That is the obvious context of effects of fasting and reduced water intake at times.

I think your mind is in your pants.

Finishing discussion? I would be glad not to hear from you again. I think you started this discussion by getting upset at the idea of male chastity which upsetness you disguise as lack of God demanding it, in OT when in fact the general drift is strongly in that direction.

Only by chopping The Bible into chapter and verse are you going to lose context so easily, though it is an excellent mode of searching The Bible to locate things.

"Archbishop Stephen Langton and Cardinal Hugo de Sancto Caro developed different schemas for systematic division of the Bible in the early 13th century. It is the system of Archbishop Langton on which the modern chapter divisions are based" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapters_and_verses_of_the_Bible#History

efforts to read through the Torah in one year countermand the order in the Torah that ALL were to gather and hear the WHOLE Torah read to them at once either once a year or once every three years I forget which. That rule also goes against the later rabbinical notion that a woman should not study Torah.
 
Christine, it is certainly possible I misunderstood you given the way you write.

"I think your mind is in your pants."

The classy critics here go after a person's arguments, not a person's character. Criticising the character of someone you have never met and whose name you don't even know says more about you than them.

"ALL were to gather and hear the WHOLE Torah read to them at once either once a year or once every three years I forget which"

Every seven years - Deuteronomy 31.

Are you having difficulty finding Mosaic Laws that prohibit a single man from having sex with a widow...?
 
http://www.watchman.org/reltop/waldorfcontroversy.htm

Waldorf Schooling explained, this is even more off the wall than Montessori, the latter may work for aggressively curious self starter kids but most need a kick start
sometimes literal.
 
More of the same ugly offerings from Christine. Too much wrong or needless and/or misapplied information for what this blog is supposed to be about. Thanks for being so "helpful", Christine. I hate the comment section of this blog. A waste of time and you are why, Christine. Thanks but no thanks you poor, poor soul. You just have to steer things into the ditch because your mind lives in a pit. Why don't you stick to the freedom you can have in your own blog and wallow in that ditch? You and your half-baked science and excruciating detail into the morbid and gross. Topics that are difficult can be handled with much more decorum and discretion but you seem totally unequipped for that! Whatsoever things are lovely, of a good report, etc,...(you get the picture)think on these things the Bible says. Apparently Christine you just can't go there. SAD! I'm outta here (and don't worry I won't let the doorknob hit me in the *^&$#..)
 
"nocturnal emission will occur in a monk unless it doesn't"

Great wisdom Christine, thanks.
 
Me: "Give me chapter and verse from the Pentateuch that forbid a single man from paying a widow for sex." Not that God approves, of course, but when God gave the Law He sometimes had to choose the lesser of two evils. Remember that the Law would never have been necessary but for human sin.

Christine: "Only by chopping The Bible into chapter and verse are you going to lose context so easily"

Context has zilch to do with it. What would you reply to a traffic cop who said, "You broke the context of the speeding law, ma'am"?

Your comment about chapters and verses are just another diversion from the fact that you have not been able to answer my question, which I now rephrase as follows: In which exact passage in the Pentateuch does God forbid a single man from paying a widow for sex?
 
context has everything to do with Bible stuff. go study hermeneutics.

there is NOWHERE presented the option of doing this, you have a wife or a concubine which is a kind of lesser wife, or you got nothing. God commands to be holy, and regulates sex and food and does not treat seminal loss lightly even in marital sex it renders the man unclean even if it didn't spill outside the woman at all.

presented with the divine massacre of the men who partied with the Moabite women and the concerns about incest which require you know who is related to who by blood OR adoption OR marriage and the point that the sex act ITSELF makes the two ONE FLESH AUTOMATICALLY, back to Genesis, then in fact all fornication is effectively marriage with intent to divorce and remarry commit adultery as quick as possible,

and IF you allow prostitution you create a serious risk of incest later for obvious reasons (or do I have to tie up bandwidth with an explanation of possible illegitimate genealogy and proximity geographically down the generations for sex, even possibly in the case of a dirty old man with his own unknown daughter, the daughter of a whore now dead and he never knew the woman's name and the girl is in the same trade?)

WHERE do you see the option existing, exact chapter and verse, that going to a prostitute is an option?

It is typical of hypocritical pharisee types, that they cavil at language and detail, but think nothing of evil ACTIONS of great uncleanness.

Were you by any chance in a debate with me about homosexual marriage on a yahoo egroup last year or several months ago? your style seems similar.

you don't need chapter and verse that the people did not have back then just read through the whole thing, WHERE DO YOU SEE IT ALLOWED?

There is no double standard of this sort, allowing limited polygamy, only slightly dents the man's chastity compared to that of the woman. It is not a license to screw whoever whenever.

A widow short of cash would always have the option of begging. The Torah REQUIRED people to give to the poor (that means beggars), to NEVER harvest their lands on the edge of the field or go twice over fruit trees, these were for strangers and the poor, and there was gleaning, following after harvester and picking up what they missed at harvest.

Go pour through the Torah and find all this.
 
Several PHOs at least 1 kilometer in size will be passing on various dates
starting Aug. 16 in horrendously close range. Any one of these could cause
serious damage, tsunamis if they hit water and wipe out a town or more
and do regional damage if they hit land.

http://www.zapaday.com/calendar/949/DOOM+Calendar.html gives
distances but the Illapa asteroid supposedly that close on the 12th of
August will actually be CLOSER according to the JPL orbit diagram
program, run day by day or hour by hour, on the 16th.
 
oops, should have added through September also.

That's SEVERAL of these things.
 
Christine,

I have debated you nowhere but here at Constance's blog.

You don't seem to understand that I am against prostitution and fornication (and gay 'marriage') and am making the point that there are certain things God condemns which are not prohibited in Mosaic Law. (If you think God's permission is required to do things that are not prohibited, you are adding to the law.) Nowhere does any regulation have the effect of prohibiting consensual sex between a widow and a single man, for instance. You have been unable to find any passage in Mosaic Law to that effect, in response to my questioning, and your frustration is now showing in your wild imputation of motives to me.

The act of sex does not automatically cause God to regard a couple as married. (If the woman is a virgin then she is to get married to the man, or be stoned.) You misunderstand what marriage is - a covenant (it is repeatedly described as such in the OT) - which of course includes contractual details, essentially permanence, intimacy, publicity and exclusivity. Those do indeed come from Genesis 2. But it is not the case that copulation automatically sets up a marriage record in heaven.
 
"Several PHOs at least 1 kilometer in size will be passing on various dates
starting Aug. 16 in horrendously close range. Any one of these could cause
serious damage, tsunamis if they hit water and wipe out a town or more
and do regional damage if they hit land."

Partly true, partly false:

"Several PHOs at least 1 kilometer in size will be passing on various dates
starting Aug. 16" True.

"in horrendously close range" Relatively speaking, yes, but that means about the distance of the moon away. Did you understand that?

"Any one of these could cause
serious damage, tsunamis if they hit water and wipe out a town or more
and do regional damage if they hit land." Anything that big would do a lot more than regional damage.

I take some of the prophecies in the Book or Revelation to mean that this will someday happen. It will not involve non-existent planets like Nibiru or "brown dwarf" stars that orbiting infrared detectors would long ago have seen. By far the most likely scenario is a collision between two small objects currently in solar orbits beyond the outer planets, or a 'slingshot' effect when one such passes close by one of the outer planets, which causes it to change its solar orbit and puts it on collision course with the earth. Such an object would be currently undetectable and would only be spotted with not too long to go.

Physicist
 
the brown dwarf would the driver to slingshot some stuff our way.
 
"in horrendously close range" Relatively speaking, yes, but that means about the distance of the moon away. Did you understand that?

wrong. the one in August is coming inside the orbit of some of our satellites. If you push the JPL orbit diagram to day by day then hour by hour, you see it got to NEGATIVE distance meaning it assumes impact on the 15th or 16th, and it is still, er, up in the air, whether it will hit or not.

These things all come INSIDE the orbit of our moon. Do some research.
 
Anon@8:03 p.m.

I have to agree with Christine on this one.

Consexual sex is one flesh union.

This is the reason why marriage is called one flesh union.

You seem to be arguing from silence, it;s not in the OT, so it can't be true.

Jesus, specifically calls marriage one flesh union,

Consider this example, if two people decide to play tennis for the rest of their lives only with each other, until they die. Are they married?

No. Hence permanence or fidelity alone does not make a marriage. Sex does.

Savvy
 
I am also assuming you are Male.

Just because historically men thought that it was okay to sleep around with other women, and only have kids from their legal wives. It did not make prostitution OKAY.

It just made these men jerks.
 
And in the Anglo-American legal tradition, marriage was referred to as conjugal union, based on one flesh union. Hence it could only take place between a man and a woman, based on the nature of sexual intercourse.
 
Savvy,

OK, let's discuss. I say that under Mosaic Law a single man and a virgin who sleep together must get married, but I deny that by having sex they automatically become married in God's eyes. You say they do.

Suppose that they do not get married, the woman manages to keep it quiet and avoids being stoned to death, then sleeps briefly with another man.

On the Day of Judgement, will God tell her that she committed adultery with the second man against the first? Or regard her action with the second man as further fornication?

In the Ancient Near East, marriage was seen as a covenant. It is explicitly described as one in the OT, using the same word as for God's covenant with Israel (BERITH). A covenant is a contract in the context of a relationship.

For God to recognise the contract as a marriage, it has to be understood by both man and woman to involve permanence, intimacy, exclusivity (generalized in polygamous societies to no sex outside marriage) and be public in character, since it has legal consequences, eg who is the *legitimate* heir. These criteria come from Genesis 2:24.

By insisting that a marriage document is written by God in heaven when an unmarried couple sleep together, and that this needs matching by one on earth, you are going slightly but definitely beyond what the Bible says, and also ignoring the contractual aspect of marriage. The marriage certificate on earth comes first. Then God countersigns it and declares that the couple have at last done the right thing.

I welcome any reply.
 
Christine,

Any object much more massive than the one it is slingshotting is sufficient to slingshot. One of the outer planets would do and there is no need to postulate a brown dwarf. There isn't a brown dwarf - any such would have been picked up by the extremely sensitive infrared detectors that have now been in orbit for three decades. I have told you this multiple times and you ignore it and continue to peddle your brown-dwarf theory. Presumably you ignore it because are unable to dispute it on scientific grounds and for some irrational reason you don't want to change your mind. Please stop confusing Constance's readers.

The one-kilometer object of which I am aware is not approaching any nearer than the moon. Smaller objects regularly come closer, which is why we have meteor showers at certain times of year (mainly in the northern summer). If you are talking about an object approaching much closer than the moon that is not associated with one of these regular showers, please provide a reference. (That is the norm among genuine researchers and is a standard courtesy in any discourse.) If a large, non-seasonal object is approaching much closer than the moon then it is not unprecedented, but I would stand corrected.

Physicist
 
By insisting that a marriage document is written by God in heaven when an unmarried couple sleep together,

St. Paul says that the two are one evenif with a harlot and refers to Genesis. end of subject.

Granted it is extreme to say fornicstion adds up to a marriage contracted with intent to commit adultery, but on the strictly physical level that is what it is.

This one flesh thing is automatic in itself from itself. that is why one must not do this in an unholy context or way.

This is also why regarding a woman found to not be a virgin at marriage law could not be invoked if the fiance had spent a night under her father's roof because he might have had sex with her himself, the issue was that she came to him, as distinct from to the marriage, virgin or not, as per the Talmud.

No document was done in Eden. Documents were later, when relationships developed that were not relationships.

Mosaic Law allowed divorce fairly easily and allowed the devoted to one man lover type relationship the concubine, Talmud did not allow women to initiate divorce but Torah said she could leave without paying money (the bride price reimbursed) for certain reasons, whether wife or concubine, and that implies she could leave for any reason if she paid it back.
 
This would also have been the basis for the several centuries ago English law that if you had sex with a woman you could not marry her sister. This would be marrying your constructive sister. one flesh with someone makes you related to everyone they are related to in effect. I forget where I read this.

we were designed to be monogamous, and not need record keeping and contracts and so forth, when people started doing sex outside of marriage equivalent relationships, and/or when families started prostituting marriage to the group interest, instead of draw away from the family then bond to a person of the opposite sex, and from that intimacy grows the physical intimacy that bonds you still more,
then they needed contracts and stuff.
 
Christine, it is wholly unclear at 10.10am which side of this debate you are on. Please clarify, preferably with punctuation and sentences that relate logically to the ones that precede and follow.

Genesis 2 says that when a couple marry they come one flesh, in a deep sense. The converse, that if they become one flesh (and that merely physically) then they ARE married in God's eyes, does not follow. God says only that they must get married - and even then only if the woman has been a virgin.

Also, please be careful not to project the assumptions of modern culture back into the ancient Near East. When you read the word 'contract' today you have a piece of paper in mind, but pre-literate cultures understood the concept of verbal contract, and this is what was meant in the penultimate paragraph at 3.52am. Verbal contract is still binding in Scottish law today, I believe.
 
the assumption of modern culture is the marriage contract read into Genesis. what it says is, the man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his woman (ishah, woman diminutive of ish man as individual) and the two shall be one flesh.

now, St. Paul says in I corinthians 2:15-18

Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and them members of a harlot?

FOR THE TWO, HE SAYS, SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him."

Sexual immorality is the ultimate hypocrisy.

the argument at issue began when someone worried about my indelicate language proceeded to argue that sex with a prostitute was not forbidden in Torah, and I asked, given all the severe sex limiting context, the one flesh results from the sex act context, the "be holy as I am holy" says the Lord context, where chapter and verse is it explicitly allowed?
 
"the argument at issue began when someone worried about my indelicate language proceeded to argue that sex with a prostitute was not forbidden in Torah, and I asked, given all the severe sex limiting context, the one flesh results from the sex act context, the "be holy as I am holy" says the Lord context, where chapter and verse is it explicitly allowed?"

That which is not prohibited in law is legal, of course - eg drinking. This does not mean everything not prohibited is moral, for elsewhere in the OT God speaks against *excessive* alcohol drinking. He was forced to devise a legal code only because because of the Fall into immorality, and He sometimes had to legislate so as to permit the lesser of two evils.

So, back to my question which you keep publicly ducking: Exactly what passage in Mosaic Law prohibits sex between a single man and a widow who has fallen on hard times?

Don't divert by saying I am advocating immorality, because I acknowledge that it is a wrongful act. And if you wish to ask a question back, kindly answer mine at the same time.

I personally am not worried about your indelicate language, but aren't you?
 
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=37655+Illapa&orb=1

0.095 astronomical units is 142 118 100 km which is
88308 mi. and 54.73 yd (online converter and astronomy source).

average distance of moon to earth is 238,855 miles. http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Display=Facts&Object=Moon

Last I looked, 88,308 miles (Illapa to us) is a lot less than 238,855 miles (moon to us).

The other objects in the upcoming three months according to the zapaday.com doom calendar, are even closer.
 
indelicate language and diverting - I am not diverting, I am saying that you are reading an option in that doesn't exist. Sure it happened, and kings failed often to remove all the places of pagan worship also. And discrete depravity is hard to prove.

That is not the same thing as saying that it was allowed.

This reminds me of Lt. Col. Calley arguing that Numbers saying keep the virgins alive for yourselves okayed rape which he allowed at My Lai and elsewhere, no it doesn't because the Torah goes on to specify selection for marriage and release not slavery if she refuses to please him.

indelicate language - no I am not worried about it in the context of this argument, because I DID NOT USE ANY. I simply described accurately without slang or specifically listed as obscene type words. Seems to me that you want to not have anything discussed, all kept quiet and discrete and in that context turn a blind eye to whatever.

And you repeatedly ignore the issue that when celibacy is NOT AN OPTION in the minds of some people, how monks manage is irrelevant. Which is why I brought up the other issues.

now the irony is, while licentiousness and fantasizing about perversion or other people's mates IS forbidden, there is not one word about masturbation in the Bible. Spilled semen making a man unclean until the evening is specified as the case even in marital sex. Onan didn't do masturbation, he did coitus interruptus to avoid impregnating Tamar, who was only willing to have sex to get pregnant, so he was getting sex by deception and possibly by physical force as well if she got wise to his game and resisted. "Abusers of themselves with mankind" in I Cor. is arsenokoites, which refers to the male role player the he man type homosexual, and the words mean man defined as such by being strong, dominant, and coition or couching which was an idiom for sex.

I think that deliberately stirring oneself up to sexual feeling to masturbate is probably sin especially if it involves wrong thoughts, but if charged up and in danger of temptation to fornicate, it is better whether male or female to quickly relieve oneself and be less temptable.
 
Christine,

1 AU (Astronomical Unit) is the distance from the earth to the sun - about 93 million miles.

Closest approach of Illapa on August 12th according to the reference you quote (thank you!) is 0.095 AU or 8.8 million miles.

Distance from earth to moon is about one-quarter of a million miles, or 0.0025 AU (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon ).

So Illapa never gets closer to us than about 30 times the distance of the Moon.

There was an error of a factor of 10 in your calculation of the number of kilometers corresponding to 0.095 AU, and a much larger error in your conversion from that to miles.
 
Anon 12:19
You forgot that math is a waste of time.
 
I NEVER do math calculations myself, to avoid getting them wrong. I use online converters.

apparently there is a disagreement between two of them.

average distance of moon to earth is 238,855 miles. http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Display=Facts&Object=Moon

vs. "Distance from earth to moon is about one-quarter of a million miles'

same same.

"Closest approach of Illapa on August 12th according to the reference you quote (thank you!) is 0.095 AU or 8.8 million miles."

here is what I get from a SECOND online converter, http://www.unitconversion.org/length/astronomical-units-to-miles-conversion.html
8830801.6904062

Answer: 142118 km = 88308.031 mi.
OR 88308 mi. and 54.73 yd
http://www.metric-conversions.org/length/kilometers-to-miles.htm

1 Astronomical Unit = 149 598 000 kilometers at the top of google au to kilometer search. I cut and paste, so I had the 142 number from somewhere else.

Answer: 149598 km = 92955.887 mi.
OR 92955 mi. and 1562.2 yd

okay, when I cut and paste the space between segments of digits caused the last three zeros to be dropped. so I removed the spaces when pasting, and tried again.

Answer: 149598000 km = 92955887.616 mi.
OR 92955887 mi. and 1084.7 yd

several others things are coming around, however, at around half that au distance however.
 
the peculiar thing about Illapa, is that when I plugged it into the JPL orbit diagram machine, and changed day to hour, the distance closed precipitately after the 12th to a negative number, indicating impact.

This was noticed by someone else, who is on an interview about halfway through the program I embedded at my blog http://politicallyunclassifiable.blogspot.com/2012/07/nibiru-passes-by-in-august-debris-field.html

who didn't mention its name but the timing is the same, she remarked on the negative distance figure.

But now, this doesn't happen as of today, which looks like

1. error in their system then, 2. recalculated 3. hiding something and the error was letting it slip through in the first place, now corrected.

zapaday.com doesn't have a direct doom calendar small link you have to search for it, the list that was up is not there now, and only by using the original link do you get them http://www.zapaday.com/calendar/949/DOOM+Calendar.html

Asteroid (1998 FF14) Earth Flyby at 0.093au Wed 19 Sep 2012, 07:12 AM

Asteroid (2006 KM103) Earth Flyby at 0.063au Tue 25 Sep 2012, 03:57 AM

Asteroid (2000 EA14) Earth Flyby at 0.100au Mon 29 Oct 2012, 05:23 PM

Asteroid 214869 (2007 PA8) Earth Flyby at 0.043au Mon 5 Nov 2012, 04:44 PM

Asteroid (1994 XD) Earth Flyby at 0.052au Tue 27 Nov 2012, 12:19 PM

Asteroid 4179 Toutatis Earth Flyby at 0.046au
 
Anon@3:52 a.m.

"For God to recognise the contract as a marriage, it has to be understood by both man and woman to involve permanence, intimacy, exclusivity (generalized in polygamous societies to no sex outside marriage) and be public in character, since it has legal consequences"

This is true, but when does this promise become sealed in heaven.

When a couple sleep together.

What makes fornication wrong, is that a couple is engaging in the marital act without making a promise that it would be permanent and exclusive and for life.

They are telling lies or distorting the marital act.

I am not saying that everyone who sleeps together is married, but they are distorting the marital act or the covenant of marriage.

It's is sex that seals the promise of marriage.


Savvy
 
Christine: "Last I looked, 88,308 miles (Illapa to us) is a lot less than 238,855 miles (moon to us)."

Me: "There was an error of a factor of 10 in your calculation of the number of kilometers corresponding to 0.095 AU, and a much larger error in your conversion from that to miles."

Christine: "I NEVER do math calculations myself, to avoid getting them wrong. I use online converters. apparently there is a disagreement between two of them."

The result of the calculation appeared under YOUR name Christine, and it was up to you to verify that you got it right. You blame the online convertor instead of taking responsibility for your error yourself. Have the grace to admit your mistake, learn from it, and move on. You preach here on the laws of physics but you can't even get a 5th grade multiplication right when you have access to a calculator.

In particular, you wrote: "142 118 100 km [which] is 88308 mi. and 54.73 yd". The conversion factor is approximately 8 km = 5 miles and I'm sure you are aware that the factor is not tens or hundreds, yet you converted more than 100 million km to less than 100 thousand miles. It is obvious that you used the online calculator incorrectly, and it should have been obvious to you too. Which online calculator was it?

Physicist
 
Savvy, I am the guy who has been discussing this with you and I agree with all you write at 2.21pm, with the caveat that, if a couple marry after fornicating, it is their first act of sex *after* exchanging vows that seals it.
 
Anon@2:28 p.m.

Thanks, but it's still sex that is the martial act. Fornication distorts this martial act.

Because if inclusivity, and permanence were all that was needed. This could be done with a gay marriage too, based on exchanging vows.


Savvy
 
Christine,

None of the objects you quote at 2.14pm comes within even ten times the distance of the Moon (which is 0.0025 AU). Yet you promised us objects closer than the Moon.

I suspect you used the JPL software wrong, too. Scientists have been tracking this object for long enough to know its trajectory to great accuracy (as you can see from the number of significant figures quoted) and if there were a risk of collision in a few weeks time then it would have been frontpage news for a very long time. Or, if you prefer conspiracy, it would have been deleted from the JPL website a long time ago. The software is designed to flag any risks as soon as it sees them.

Physicist
 
It is obvious that you used the online calculator incorrectly

I already said so, when I cut and pasted the au to km figure, it had a space between each group of three digits, causing the converter to drop the last three digits before it converted.

I removed the spaces so the numbers ran together and nothing was dropped and it came out like your figures.
 
Savvy, there aint no such thing as gay marriage (I'm sure you agree!) What God has defined, man cannot redefine. Happy is the nation whose definition coincides with God's, and surely cursed is the nation whose definition clashes with God's.
 
Christine, I was typing my comment that you had used the online calculator incorrectly when you posted that you had. But you didn't need to use one at all - Wikipedia's entry about the Moon would have told you how many AU it was from us, and you could have directly compared that figure with the closest approach of Illapa in AU on the JPL website. You still haven't found anything coming nearer to us than the Moon, as you said you had.

Physicist
 
none of which explains the odd thing about what the jpl orbit diagram program said about it a few days ago, and was noted by another person on an interview, and today it doesn't do that.

Also, there is an asteroid listed at 0.015 which jpl never shows getting that near.

As someone once said, "if they knew a big one was coming would they tell us? answer, no."

Meanwhile, whether it is because of this sort of thing, or because of impending WW 3 some chatty spouses of Continuity of Govt. people have reported there was a briefing announcing that they would be getting a 2 week bugout notice sometime soon, for the east and Gulf coasts, maybe it is only about Cumbre Vieja, an interesting censorship situation.

Seems the earthquake monitors automatically post, whether anyone is in the officer or not. So you get the information and then a few hours later suddenly it isn't there.

The tourist seeking govt. is arguing everything is safe, though dangerous levels of poisonous gas are venting.

When this thing goes, 50 to 150 feet of water will hit the east and gulf coasts 8 hours later.

Obviously anyone deemed important will be gotten out the way ahead of time, the rest can drown or tread water.

the seismic record erasures, of anything really ominous, and the strange change in the jpl orbit diagram, makes me very suspicious.

you only need a handful of people in the right place to make sure the data is modified before any honest scientist gets his or her hands on it.
 
okay it is 2012 DA14 that is showing negative distance on Feb. 14 not Illapa according to the person on the youtube, I had not recalled checking anything but Illapa on jpl.

and it is DA14 that will pass 17,000 miles inside some satellite orbits, so forget August it is Feb that is an issue.

This is what happens when I try to multitask at age 61 like I used to do years ago. sorry.

So get ready to freak out in Jan. in preparation. https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=asteroid+17%2C000+miles&oq=asteroid+17%2C000+miles&gs_l=serp.12...20061.21292.0.23066.8.8.0.0.0.0.155.874.2j6.8.0...0.0...1c.zd0URVUCjFk
 
"none of which explains the odd thing about what the jpl orbit diagram program said about it a few days ago, and was noted by another person on an interview, and today it doesn't do that."

Probably transient software bugs, and as I said we have been tracking this thing for long enough to know exactly where it is headed when.

"Also, there is an asteroid listed at 0.015 which jpl never shows getting that near."

Have you checked whether it conforms to the criteria for inclusion in the JPL list? Don't reach for conspiracy too rapidly.

"As someone once said, "if they knew a big one was coming would they tell us? answer, no."

THEY probably wouldn't, but they are reliant on scientists to find that out, and the scientific community operates on open debate. The only way to get secrecy about the Bomb project nearly 70 years ago was to put it in the middle of a desert at Los Alamos, and that was in the middle of a major war.

Cumbre Vieja is certainly a concern - not least the threat of Islamic terrorists with suitcase nukes trying to trigger it - but I see no evidence that it is more likely to slide imminently than, say, a year ago.

Thank you for the info that asteroid 2012 DA14 will pass some four earth radii away next February. A miss is as good as a megamile.

Physicist
 
Now this is the height of scientific arrogance and blasphemy:

http://tinyurl.com/ccevogk

Scientists have created an artificial jellyfish and shocked it to cause it to swim. This is the early phase of developing a humanly engineered heart.

“The design of the heart that we have today is by no means the best physically possible design,” Dabiri said. “It is the one that evolution stumbled onto over the course of millions of years of random searching.”

It’s possible, perhaps probable, that there’s a better design out there for humans to discover. An artificial heart, for example, could be engineered to steer clear of heart disease, the leading cause of death in the U.S.


No thanks! I'll keep the one that my Creator designed!
 
you weren't paying attention check those google links. DA14 is considered at this point a possible hit, not a miss, and this is the one where the jpl orbit diagram shows it going closer, closer, the positive numbers shrinking, and going to NEGATIVE numbers which means an impact. you see this when you change the timing from day to hour.
 
"check those google links. DA14 is considered at this point a possible hit, not a miss"

The link you posted was the result of the google search for "asteroid 17,000 miles". You exploit the passive tense by saying that Asteroid 2012 DA14 (the name is incomplete without the year of discovery) is "considered... a possible hit" without saying by whom. It is considered a possible hit by those who wish to sell newspapers by exploiting fear and ignorance, and also by those who believe them. 2012 DA14 will come close but it is not considered a hit by the professional scientists who do the calculations, as those links make abundantly clear. Who do you prefer to believe, and why?

"you weren't paying attention"

May I remind readers that this comment, apart from being untrue, is written to a professional scientist from someone who just showed she can't do multiplication competently.

Physicist
 
Savvy is correct.
 
if you read any of the articles at that google page that links to MANY you would have the answer to your question. It is considered a possible hit by astronomers, and, to judge by the JPL orbit diagram, by whoever runs that.

I didn't show I can't do multiplication I said I DO NOT TRY TO DO IT, I use online converters, and had failed to notice that when something 000 000 000 is pasted in the third set of digits is dropped creating the problem.

enough of all this. The others are close enough to deviate if something made them do so, DA14 is a near certainty.

The official scientific position on asteroid hits is 1. it is not IF but WHEN because it WILL happen sooner or later, 2. they don't know all that are out there. Remember the big one that zipped by inside the lunar orbit and it wasn't even seen coming, no one knew until it passed overhead?

I REPEAT - store up some food and water in case your infrastructure is affected by something that happens a few thousand miles away.

ANOTHER WHEN NOT IF is the New Madrid Fault breaking. That will mess up rail and trucking networks since it is a big nexus for this now.
 
Christine, I said that Asteroid 2012 DA14 is "considered a possible hit [only] by those who wish to sell newspapers by exploiting fear and ignorance, and also by those who believe them. 2012 DA14 will come close but it is not considered a hit by the professional scientists who do the calculations... Who do you prefer to believe, and why?"

You replied: "if you read any of the articles at that google page that links to MANY you would have the answer to your question. It is considered a possible hit by astronomers"

In other words, you prefer to believe the trash-mongers rather than the scientists who know how to do the calculation. That's up to you. But don't go spreading needless fear to others. And either tell me WHICH genuine academic astronomers consider that 2012 DA14 is likely to hit the earth next February, or stop saying that astronomers believe this.

"I didn't show I can't do multiplication I said I DO NOT TRY TO DO IT, I use online converters, and had failed to notice that when something 000 000 000 is pasted in the third set of digits is dropped creating the problem."

Only a poor workman blames his tools.

"The official scientific position on asteroid hits is 1. it is not IF but WHEN because it WILL happen sooner or later, 2. they don't know all that are out there."

Denial followed by an an adroit change of subject, your usual rhetorical trick. (1) I have never denied that this could happen and I have even stated that the Book of Revelation says it will, someday. (2) We know about everything big enough to create havoc over a large area that is currently in stable orbit inside Jupiter's orbit. And we are confident that there is no lurking brown dwarf. What we cannot rule out is that something a kilometre or more in size, too far out in the solar system to be detectable by present technology, will slingshot round one of the outer planets and come charging straight for us with catastrophic effect. Most such thing have already done that in the era when the solar system was forming, but not all...

Physicist
 
OK Christine, as you ducked my questions on Mosaic Law further up this thread I'm going to sharpen the issue. In ancient Israel two unrelated persons call on a widow and catch her in intimate circumstances with a single man. These two witnesses report the incident to the local ruler-of-ten in the hierarchy of judges (Exodus 18). This judge calls the couple before him. They say "Show us the statute from Moses forbidding what we have done or let us go."

What would you say?
 
the couple would probably be forced to formally marry or some flogging.

I have NOT ducked questions AT ALL, I have shown you that you are missing something. The issue of CONTEXT, and the concept that sex makes the two one flesh, that means no adultery INCLUDES no fornication.

If the widow were an Israelite there would be punishment for this since it was forbidden absolutely to Israelite women.

There was also no excuse for ANY woman given the requirement to give to beggars and allow the free taking from the edge of your fields.

there is in your example no indication of exchange of money or other consideration for the sex act, you are not describing prostitution.

In the law forbidding Israelite women to be prostitutes it says something like "lest the land fall to uncleanness," clearly the chastity of men was an issue also.
 
that sex makes the two one flesh, therefore creates a relationship with relatives of the sex partner, that this was understood by all, regardless of the presence of legal marriage or not, note also the reference to a man's wife as his nakedness, in Leviticus, where one is not to take one's brother's wife during his lifetime or his uncle's wife because such are the nakedness of the relatives in question,

is shown by God's denunciation of, among other evils, that "a man and hisn father go in unto the same maid."

whether she be a woman divorced from one and married to the other, or a prostitute they shared, or a no pay no strings casual sex partner they shared,

they effectively committed a kind of incest. Amos 2:7

with multiple partners there is no way of knowing who has been with who, and no way of knowing if there is an age difference and the mother of the woman or the mother of the male client was a prostitute if there is perhaps a blood relationship.

All of this, adultery as including any sexual wrong, as well as the obvious marital adultery, and the issue of avoiding incest whether of blood or constructive incest because of relationship created by sex or by inlaw relationship to someone, the whole thing is prohibited.

When Rahab joined Israel, she married, she did not keep up her old ways.
 
Bible context for an ealier discussion re axis flip

sun rising in west and setting in east - two thoughts occurred to me. God "Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever." Ps. 104:5 Septuagint "He established the earth on its stable foundations, it shall not be moved unto ages of ages." (Ps. 103:5 in LXX)

now what does "moved" mean? this doesn't refute rotabion or orbit, only indicates these will not be disturbed in any meaningful way.

now, what about the division of the earth in Peleg's time? while many think this means only social division by language confusion at Babel, this could also be physical, the breakup of Pangea which scientists think happened millions of years ago, young earthers would put a few thousand years ago, both could agree it happened.

Why not divide by language AND geography?

in such a situation, the APPEARANCE of change of location of sunrise could easily occur, as continents separated and rotated somewhat from their original single landmass described in Genesis chapter 1.

And after some additional shifting, or perhaps just travel of the people, the old memory of change of direction of sunrise would pertain, and the present correctly observed sunrise, and this whole thing be interpreted as involving a change of the sun's motion (geocentric) or earth's axis position (heliocentric).

So axis flip may be out of the question for Revelation 6, but crustal displacement is not. As the surface moves, those on the surface would see the stars APPEAR to move quickly down towards the horizon instead of setting at their normal rate.

The memory of some pagan peoples of such a change in direction of sunrise could also have to do with the long day of Joshua, if God gently rolled the earth over prolonging the time of the sun above the horizon in Israel, this could have some interesting visual effects elsewhere. The story of changing direction of sunrise might be a warped oral memory of this.
 
I AM SO VERY SORRY -- MY YOUNGER SISTER HAS BEEN IN TOWN WITH AN EMERGENCY FOR ME TO SORT OUT AND CONSEQUENTLY, THAT COMBINED WITH MY CASES COMING TO A HEAD LATELY HAVE KEPT ME AWAY.

I took advantage of the Ann Arbor Art Fair last week (I was in Washtenaw Trial Court the second to last day of the event) to check out CRAZY WISDOM a large Ann Arbor, MI NEW AGE bookstore. I picked up some heavy evidence that the "left hand path" (Satanism) is much more open in the New Age Movement than before. LORDS OF THE LEFT HANDED PATH by Stephen Flowers a proud former member of the TEMPLE OF SET in San Francisco was front and center proudly displayed there visible to all as they walked through the front door.

I also picked up magazines from the ADBUSTERS group vis a vis their OCCUPY MOVEMENT and the most recent magazine from EARTH FIRST. Interestingly, it proclaimed the merger of the OCCUPY MOVEMENT and ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT. Violence, sabotage, bringing down the system were all included. I will be writing about this, but I am still very busy between my family member and my law practice.

Pray for me! I'm a great lawyer, but very bad business person!

CONSTANCE
 
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