Thursday, June 24, 2010

Is the EU losing credibility Palestine?? Strange challenge to EU from Hebrew University scholar


I was signing off to go home to bed and decided to check my email first.  This was in my "Barcelona Process" google alerts.  The title speaks for itself.  I wish Herb Peters were here to talk with about it, but the fellows from "borntowatch.com" and "fulfilledprophecy.com" are and I hope they will pay close attention.

The entire article bears close reading -- here are some relevant excerpts:


The EU should now actively support a reconciliation process, which must result in elections without further delay. This could provide a way out of the EU being limited to dealing with Fatah instead of an elected, representative Palestinian government – an important condition for any attempt to reinvigorate credible peace talks. And, crucially, this must kick-start a re-energised EU approach to building democracy in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT). I carried out a large number of interviews with Palestinian politicians, civil society representatives, academics, activists and artists in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in 2010: these show that the EU is fast losing goodwill among key sectors of the Palestinian population.
THE EU’S APPROACH TO DEMOCRACY BUILDING
The EU’s democracy building agenda in the Mediterranean started with the Barcelona Process and the establishment of the European Instrument for Democracy and Human Rights (EIDHR). However, it experienced a slow start. Following the Oslo Accords and the establishment of the Palestinian Authority (PA), the EU was willing to tolerate authoritarian rule and human rights violations by President Arafat for the sake of keeping alive the peace process. This changed with the second Intifada, and the 9/11, London and Madrid terrorist attacks. Both the Bush administration and the EU changed course. While the policy had hitherto been built on the belief that successful peace was a condition for democratisation, this assumption was now reversed. 
The new approach also meant a change of stance towards the Palestinian Authority. In  2002, the EU set out to limit Arafat’s presidential powers by urging the PA to introduce the office of a prime minister; by fostering the rule of law with an independent judiciary and the call for the abolition of the infamous state security courts; by fighting corruption within the PA through the introduction of auditing mechanisms; by placing revenues under the auspices of the ministry of finance; and through an attempt to enhance the oversight capacity of the Palestinian Legislative Council.Subsequently, the democracy agenda received a boost with the introduction of the Action Plans in the frame of the European Neighborhood Policy (2004) and an upgrade of the EIDHR (2006/07).2002, the EU set out to limit Arafat’s presidential powers by urging the PA to introduce the office of a prime minister; by fostering the rule of law with an independent judiciary and the call for the abolition of the infamous state security courts; by fighting corruption within the PA through the introduction of auditing mechanisms; by placing revenues under the auspices of the ministry of finance; and through an attempt to enhance the oversight capacity of the Palestinian Legislative Council.
This approach was reversed after the 2006 elections, when the office of President Abbas was strengthened again relative to the office of Prime Minister Haniyeh. EU aid was once more distributed in opaque ways.
In addition, the majority of EU aid (approximately EUR 530 million in 2007) is dedicated to short-term socio-economic relief, instead of sustainable, long-term support for institution building. An even smaller amount is allocated to civil society capacity building. In recent years, funds for democracy have been modest and have concentrated on fighting corruption in the executive (EUR 27 million from 2004–2008), election support (EUR 20 million from 2000–2006), and on fostering the Palestinian judicial system (EUR 8 million from 2004–2008). Bottom-up democratisation through civil society bodies receives a maximum of EUR 1.2 million per year through the EIDHR.

How this will all play out certainly makes for interesting and prayerful study.

The conclusions call for the EU to give more quarter to Hamas than they have already given.  This is an article I might expect from Al Jazeera.  I was somewhat taken back to see it from a Hebrew University source.


Thus, if the EU is serious about building democracy in the Palestinian quasi-state, an honest encouragement of Palestinian national reconciliation – including some kind of engagement with Hamas – appears to be crucial. This would not only support the EU’s democracy agenda and restore its image, but also provide an important precondition for reviving peace talks and helping the conflicting parties out of the current deadlock.
Secondly, Palestinians barely distinguish de - mocracy promotion from the EU’s general foreign policy towards Israel and the OPT. Many interviewees, including Sari Nusseibeh, Palestinian academic and Director of Al Quds University, claimed that they are living under an ‘unfolding reality of Apartheid’ and that the two-state solution is on the verge of collapsing, which makes European democracy promotion towards the PA all rather pointless. Palestinians expect the EU to exert more pressure on Israel, particularly regarding the application of different laws towards settlers and Palestinians (Israeli versus military law), the constraint on the freedom of movement, and the holding of elections in East Jerusalem in accordance with the Oslo Accords. Rami Hamdallah, Secretary General of the Palestinian Central Elections Commission, and many others, referred to the difficulties of carrying out elections under the restraints of occupation. The EU could be much more assertive towards Israel in this respect.

Stay tuned!

CONSTANCE
Comments:
TILT: the illness afflicting workers exposed to BP's oil disaster?

http://www.southernstudies.org/
2010/06/tilt-the-illness-
afflicting-workers-exposed-to-bps-
oil-disaster.html
 
Police state IN; power suits OUT as Toronto goes into security shock for this weekend's G20 Summit...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news
/world/g8-g20/opinion/police-state-
%20%20in-power-suits-out-as-
toronto-goes-into-security-
shock/article1612636/
 
Thanks 1:44 for the link. I used it in a memo I sent out comparing activities in Detroit at the USSocial Forum JD about which JD gave information and the Toronto activities. I still don't know the difference between Muslim mobs that scream, make face, change and are encouraged by their leaders to act emotionally rather than rationally and the mobs in Detroit and later in Toronto who do the same. Just as a side note, there is networking now between the supporters of the Palestinians and this USSF group.

Dorothy
 
This from Drudge-

http://online.wsj.com/article/
SB1000142405274870361510
4575328020013164184.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEADNewsCollection

NEARLY 2,000 PAGES: The legislation would redraw how money flows through economy...
Government would have broad new powers to seize...

The above description of the article is per Drudge. The article says Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are almost untouched, but according to Beck (and maybe this was in an earlier version), if those two develop trouble the banks will be required to bail them out.
 
Anon 11:52

Job 33:14 "For God speaketh once, yea twice, [yet man] perceiveth it not."

Could this be Louisiana's second warning to repent?
 
To Anonymous (10:14 AM):

Well, you seem to be making an assumption that the entire state of Louisiana needs to repent?

What about the states of Mississippi, Alabama and Florida - who will also be affected by this oil disaster?

I personally know of a LOT of good people who live in all 4 of these states.

Maybe recent events that are happening all over the world are meant to get everyone's attention - a reminder from God to clean up our own 'houses' and for ALL of us to do a final preparation of our souls?
 
Louisiana / Texas Declare Day of Prayer for Gulf Spill

(AP) BATON ROUGE, La. — The governors of Louisiana and Texas say Sunday will be a day to pray about the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal issued a proclamation declaring a day of prayer for perseverance in coping with the environmental crisis caused by the spill.

In Texas, Gov. Rick Perry is urging Texans to pray for the healing of individuals, the rebuilding of communities and the restoration of entire Gulf coast environment.

Experts say the current worst-case estimate of what's spewing into the Gulf is about 2.5 million gallons a day from the blown well, polluting shorelines from Louisiana to Florida.

Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
 
Geithner says US can 'no longer drive global growth'

http://tinyurl.com/22oou2w

I would like others to watch this video and read the related article and give me your opinions. It seems to me like Geithner is stating the US is in for a tight contraction in it's economy. That measures like what are being seen through out the Euro Zone are a certainty and that a new global economic structure are a necessity. This is coming out of the G-8 meeting, which may be the first indication of what is being proposed. Given that Washington has little intent of restricting their spending it seems that these sacrifices are going to be expected of us.
 
farmer if you are reading,
read into this one from drudge:

"After 11-hour match, American loses at Wimbledon in just 74 minutes..."
 
A-10:24

Said "Maybe recent events that are happening all over the world are meant to get everyone's attention - a reminder from God to clean up our own 'houses' and for ALL of us to do a final preparation of our souls?"

Yes, indeed!
 
STATES OF CRISIS WIDEN AS 46 GOVERNMENTS IN U.S. FACE GREEK STYLE DEFICITS...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-
06-25/states-of-crisis-widen-as-46-
governments-in-u-s-face-greek-
style-deficits.html
 
Can someone please give me more info or a link about Zionists and groups like Rev. Ted Pike, who claim there is a Zionist evil side of Israel that seeks world dominance?
 
Is anyone following the story about the sale of French warships to Russia?

In spite of serious concerns on the part of the United States - who has not only urged discussions between France and the United States, but also discussions at the NATO level - France is reportedly still in negotiations with a view to selling Russia some of its Mistral-class amphibious assault ships.

The purchase, if successful, will not only be the first large-scale arms import deal concluded by Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union. It will also be the first sale of advanced military technology to Russia by a NATO country period!

Apparently, and not surprisingly, the United States has not been included in the negotiations - in spite of the U.S. being an important NATO member.

From Ria Novosti, September 11, 2009 we read:

KALININGRAD, September 11 (RIA Novosti) - Russia plans to hold an international tender for the purchase of a helicopter carrier, involving France, Spain and the Netherlands, the country's Navy chief said on Friday.

"I can confirm that negotiations are being held, but there is likely to be a tender," Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said, adding that other countries could also be involved.

He said there were no negotiations with the United States - "for understandable reasons," adding that the U.S. authorities were "highly sensitive" about the transfer of new technology, especially dual-purpose technology
........read more....

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090911/156095530.html
__________________________

This would appear to be an instance of monkey-see, monkey-do in terms of France trying to emulate Germany's officially declared "modernization partnership" with Russia.

Interestingly, certain Russian lawmakers have questioned the plans to purchase these assault ships.

There are others who believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced Naval technology that could be used in the future in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

This attempt on the part of the allegedly "former" Soviet Union to acquire new technology was one of the very things that Ronald Reagan did everything in his power to prevent.

The French leadership under socialist President Francois Mitterrand was no less willing to arrogantly thumb its nose at President Ronald Reagan's administration while collaborating with a more overt totalitarian regime called the Soviet Union in order to further its own economic interests at the expense of everyone else's security concerns.
 
Susanna

I have been following the story on France's possible sale of warships to Russia since since it broke several months ago.

The reason I have followed it is, keeping an eye on our friend "the snake" Sarkozy. It really caught my attention at the beginning of the year as Sarkozy was "shoring up" political relationships with heads of state from South America, Africa, Europe, Middle East, Far East and Russia.

Just as Constance has a fascination with Solana (a well founded one), I also with Sarkozy. If one were to look beyond his reputation of being rude, obnoxious and arrogant, I think you would be surprised at the close political relationships he has forged with leaders from all over the world, many of them at odds with each other.
 
Constance

An observation relating to my last post on Sarkozy. Since discovering your blog a few months back I have definitely been paying closer attention to Solana. Several weeks back I decided to do a search on "Solana and Sarkozy" out of curiosity. I was surprised at how many dealings these men had with each other over the last three years that did not seem to be well publicized. I am sure there are many pieces one can find on both of these men meeting with other politicians on many occassions. I found it strange that I had to dig to find something on the two together and I found many stories and file photos of the two smiling and yukking it up together.

Any thoughts?
 
This from Drudge today:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/68444

It looks to me like the Devil is not only
in the details but also on the cover
and the table of contents and the
liner notes.

What the heck is Obama thinking ?
Is it something like " C'mon Barry,
we've only got a few more years
to wreck this country. It's
time to kick it down a few more
notches."
"Yes we can !" "Death to America !"
 
Well, here is a video of our own Vice President Joe Biden 'yucking it up' with Javier Solana on Biden's March 10, 2009 meeting in Brussels hosted by Solana.

(Could these two be any cozier?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL_i
0jFQ2R4
 
Gov't reports no negative consequences for Nalco:

http://www.dailyfinance.com/rtn/pr/new-government-reports-find-dispersants-are-working-to-break-up-oil-and-having-no-negative-consequences-for-clean-up-workers/rfid342000811/?channel=pf

or
http://tinyurl.com/2332h4d

Plus , speaking of French Connections, a French company acquired Nalco in 1999.

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Suez-Lyonnaise-des-Eaux-Company-History.html

or
http://tinyurl.com/2cxt59j

If that has been mentioned here before, I apologize.

YG
 
Interesting . . . the Vice President of the United States meeting with Javier Solana just two months after Barack Obama was inaugurated and sworn in as President!!!
 
From a 2003 article, I found this interesting. Pay attention to the last line:

The World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) are pushing for the privatization of water services by European and U.S.-based companies. They are pushing privatization through stipulations in trade agreements and loan conditions to developing countries. These privatization programs started in the early 1990’s and have since emerged in India, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina, Nigeria, Mexico, Malaysia, Australia, and the Philippines, to name a few. In Chile, the World Bank imposed a loan condition to guarantee a 33 percent profit margin to the French company Suez Lyonnaise des Eaux while the company insisted on a margin of 35 percent.

There's that French water company again, that bought Nalco in 1999!

If you own the world's water supply, you can control the world.

http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/VANOVEDR/

So the question in my head is, what is the name of Suez Lyonnaise des Eaux today?

If you read the correction at the bottom of this May 14th New Your Times article about Corexit, it appears that the company has changed names, but the new name isn't mentioned. Does anyone other than myself find that odd?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/business/energy-environment/13greenwire-less-toxic-dispersants-lose-out-in-bp-oil-spil-81183.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1277568057-xafMigjpX5/TjvQdbNa5BA

or
http://tinyurl.com/29d5lce

YG
 
YG,

Good find!

I have not seen the French-NALCO connection. Interesting, given France's recent overtures to Russia vis a vis plans to sell Mistral warships to Russia and BP's "Russian adventures" with Robert Dudley in charge which I have not seen or heard mentioned in the "state-run" media since Robert Dudley took charge of BP operations.

http://tinyurl.com/6mrt5h

http://tinyurl.com/28ls863


But even if I had seen it, two is better than none! :-)
 
Strange bedfellows- BP executives on Nalco board and Suez-Lyonnaise-des-Eaux, French company that bought Nalco, - is a company about water, waste and CLEAN energy. CEO is Gérard Mestrallet, who appears to be a bilderberger.

Yes, Susanna-the FRench/ Russian connections to BP are very interesting indeed.

YG
 
Apparently, Suez sold Nalco to the Blackstone Group in December 2003. So that's the timeline of when the French sustainable energy company run by Mestrallet, dumped Nalco for $4.2 billion $$$$$.

"Suez's (Paris, France) sale of Ondeo Nalco to a private equity group consisting of The Blackstone Group, Apollo Management, L.P., and Goldman Sachs Capital Partners has been completed. The group tendered an offer for Ondeo Nalco in September for $4.2 billion. "

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2656/is_200312/ai_n6603478/?tag=content;col1

YG
 
Anonymous 5:59 A.M.

According to some reports, Sarkozy is trying to revive the old Franco-Russian Alliance......More specifically, in a December 2, 2009 EURASIA DAILY MONITOR report posted at the Jamestown Foundation website, we read:

Mistral Warship Offer Symbolizes New Franco-Russian Strategic Partnership

......On November 23 the helicopter carrier Mistral, pride of the French Navy, laid anchor at St. Petersburg on a week-long visit with political, strategic, and commercial overtones (Interfax, November 23-27).

The French government wants to sell one or, better, several vessels of this class to Russia for billions of dollars, generating jobs at ailing French shipyards, and for drawing Russia into an as yet ill-defined “common security space,” which would bypass NATO and the EU and potentially override their common policies (EDM, September 18, November 2).

A naval event in Kronstadt, the Russian Baltic Fleet’s base near St. Petersburg, marked the birth in 1891 of the Franco-Russian alliance........


http://www.jamestown.org/programs/edm/single/?cHash=6fd9ade8b0&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=35790
___________________________

FRANCO-RUSSIAN ALLIANCE

The Franco-Russian Alliance was a military alliance between the French Third Republic and the Russian Empire that ran from 1892 to 1917. The alliance ended the diplomatic isolation of France and undermined the supremacy of the German Empire in Europe....read more...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Franco-Russian_Alliance
_________________________________

Ironically, another alliance, the so-called "Holy Alliance" ( a.k.a. the "Grand Alliance") had been forged between Russia, Prussia and Austria earlier in the century for the purpose of preventing revolutionary influence - especially from the French Revolution - and under von Metternich the Holy Alliance became a "bastion against revolution."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_
Alliance
_________________________________

Just prior to the forging of the Holy Alliance in 1815, a French member of the revived occult group called the "Johannites" went to Russia with a view to worming her way into the Russian court and influencing the Tsar vis a vis her "revelations" and "prophecies."

Her name was Marguerite - Therese des Innard Bouche ( a.k.a. "Sister Salome") and when she was summarily dismissed by Tsar Alexander I from the Russian Court and replaced by another mystic named Baroness Barbara von Krüdener, (who had some influence on the Tsar in terms of his role in the forging of the Holy Alliance), a much-chagrinned Madame Boucher returned to France, where she subsequently became mentor to a sinister occultist/satanist named Eugene Vintras whose infamous cult was one of several equally sinister occult groups that supported the "Pretender" to the French throne known as Charles Wilhelm Naundorff - who even set up his own church!

It is possible that after the Johannites failed in their attempt to directly influence the Russian monarch, they sought to infiltrate and influence the Holy Alliance by establishing their own bogus "Pretender" upon the throne of France. And this would have indeed been quite an accomplishment simply because of who the Pretender was pretending to be...namely, the "lost King" Louis XVII, son of none other than King Louis XVI and Austrian Queen Marie Antoinette who were beheaded by the revolutonaries and were seen as martyrs of the French Revolution.

cont.......
 
cont....

My "special interest" - if you want to call it that - is the occult revival of the 19th century with a special emphasis on France.......where modern "utopian socialism" is believed to have had its origins with Saint-Simon and his immediate successors including the "Saint-Simonians" from whom a kind of socialist "apostolic succession" emanated.

The 19th-century occult revival also includes Russia.

The occultist Papus (who was acquainted with Rasputin and was at one time a member of H.P. Blavatsky's Theosophical Society) and his mentor "Monsieur Philippe" had ties with the Russian Tsar Nicholas II and Tsarina Alexandra.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~androom/biography/
p025967.htm
__________________________

Moreover, Madame Helena Petrovna Blavatsky herself not only hailed from Russia, but was also suspected of having been sent to Europe by the Tsarist secret police for the purposes of engaging in espionage activities.

What many people don't seem to understand is that many European leaders - monarchs and republicans alike - were (and still are) into the occult.

Conversely, many 19th-century occultists were strongly suspected of working in an official - albeit covert - capacity for various European intelligence agencies.

O.T.O. founder Theodore Reuss was one of the more infamous examples as was Aleister Crowley. Moreover, there was often little distinction to be made between occult circles and political revolutionary circles.

Here is a fascinating article on this subject.

ESOTERICISM AND ESPIONAGE

http://www.jwmt.org/v2n16/essay.html
 
In view of the catastrophe in the Gulf and the possible long term effects on the fish population, the timing of this seems more than coincidental to me:

Genetically Altered Salmon Get Closer to the Table:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/26/business/26salmon.html?src=me&ref=business

Part of Codex Alimentarius?

These two youtube videos are about Agenda 21 and how codex alimentarius ties into reducing the world population.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCUe61hmqsA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amGK76g4xyk&NR=1
 
Speaking of fish, something smells fishy here:

Nalco (NYSE:NLC) announced it is co-sponsoring the fourth Business for Environment (B4E) Global Summit which is being held April 21-23 in Seoul, Republic of Korea, in conjunction with Earth Day 2010.

“Water, energy and air quality are among the critical environmental issues we are facing as a planet,” says J. Erik Fyrwald, Nalco Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. “Through our involvement in forums such as B4E and our participation in global initiatives such as the United Nations Global Compact and CEO Water Mandate, Nalco seeks to bring our expertise to bear on helping to develop balanced, long-term solutions which benefit the environment, the economy and society.”

Interesting that a company affiliated with Blackstone and Goldman Saks, produces a toxic chemical (Corexit) which is being spread whimsically across the Gulf of Mexico like fairy dust by BP while the EPA looks away. Same company co- sponsors a global summit on developing solutions which benefit the environment (AKA Mother Gaia), and that the Summit was held at the same time that the rig in the Gulf exploded, all coinciding with Earth Day celebrations.

You can't make this stuff up...

http://www.nalco.com/news-and-events/4239.htm
 
YG,

According to the following article, Suez Lyonnaise des Eaux morphed into Suez S.A. after its 1997 merger between the Compagnie de Suez and Lyonnaise des Eaux, a leading French water company.

Suez (company)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez
_(company)
________________

Then Suez S.A.morphed into GDF Suez after its 2008 merger with Gaz de France.

GDF Suez

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDF_Suez
____________________________

Here is some fairly recent news on the same Suez Company


EDF, GDF Suez to Join Russia Gas-Pipe Projects to Secure Supply

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news
?pid=newsarchive&sid=acM2uz6JLpyU
________________________________

I am sorry, but I am having trouble posting the link for the following article. Google the following:

GDF Suez joins Nord Stream project

June 21, 2010 (UPI)
 
YG,

Here is the link. I had to shut down and restart my computer.

GDF Suez joins Nord Stream project

June 21, 2010

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/
Resource-Wars/2010/06/21/GDF-Suez
-joins-Nord-Stream-project/UPI
-14691277115316/
____________________________

More related articles on GDF-Suez......( Note, Suez was said to be formerly a Belgian group.)

GDF-Suez merger deals a blow to EU ambition to open energy sector

September 3, 2007

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/
03/business/worldbusiness/03iht
-energy.4.7366942.html
_____________________________

Prime Minister Francois Fillon, who is mentioned in the article linked to above is also involved in the ongoing Mistral warship negotiations between France and Russia.
 
Anon 9:02,

This seems to confirm the tone set by Geithner coming out of the G8. I imagine it will be hard for any state to stand against the will of Washington, with crippling debt hanging over their head. So what happens when public services and state governments have to shut down due to insufficient funds? Public outrage is guaranteed, but who will the majority turn to for answers?
 
YG,

Thanks to your post, I am beginning to understand more about the ties between NALCO and Goldman Sachs.

Here is the NALCO Company history. It mentions many of the same things you mentioned on your posts.

http://www.nalco.com/aboutnalco/history.htm

I am especially intrigued by the tie to Exxon Chemical Company - a descendant of Standard Oil which was once owned by the Rockefellers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon

Re: your comment...

If you read the correction at the bottom of this May 14th New York Times article about Corexit, it appears that the company has changed names, but the new name isn't mentioned. Does anyone other than myself find that odd?

Don't you love the "moving target" dance in which some of these companies seem to excel?

I am willing to stand corrected if I am mistaken, but according to this article, it would appear that the new name of the company NALCO Holding company. I have not yet seen anything more recent.

NALCO HOLDING COMPANY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalco_Holding_Company
 
Sometimes these so-called connections are just a little bit tenuous. Who cares if Nalco is owned by Blackstone group. So is Legoland and the Weather Channel and a host of other companies.
 
Well, some of us DO care.

It's all about trying to 'follow the money' in connecting the dots between the fact that NALCO makes Corexit dispersants which are now being used in the Gulf of Mexico after the BP drilling rig disaster...even though Corexit has been BANNED in other countries.

Talk about a scandal that the mainstream media is NOT covering.
 
Could this be a different "SqueakBox" or is it the same "Squeakbox" that has been mentioned here re: Solana on Wikipedia???

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/06/25/exclusive-pedophiles-find-home-on-wikipedia/?test=latestnews

"After the page was nominated for deletion by multiple Wikipedia users, a BoyChat user named “SqueakBox” wrote on the blog:
“Hysterical antiped lists Marthijn Uittenbogaard for wikipedia scrapheap!
"Get yer' votes in -"
The blog post concludes with a link to the Wikipedia page where the proposed deletion was being voted on.
The site remains active today."

~HM
 
Corexit has been banned in one other country. UK, and only in applications off rocky shores.

Why the big issue with corexit? When I read the MSDS sheet on it, nothing appeared terribly out of the ordinary. I've seen one hyper scientist come out and complain, but lots of others are saying its fine.

Chemicals are chemicals. This one works kind of like dishwashing liquid. It breaks up the particles of oil. You'd rather huge oil slicks?
 
Gap Program - tool for continental scale conservation.

The landscape of these United States is about to change, and fairly soon I reckon. The GAP Program has completed an inventory of all land uses for the entire United States, including all ecological habitat zones and current land "stewardship".

This massive database of 590 land use classifications identifies all public and private property, and all human development which may constitute a barrier, or "gap", in wildlife habitat connectivity. With the “gaps” identified, specific corridor areas can now be prioritized and targeted for remediation.

Simply stated, the information collected and organized by GAP is necessary to implement Agenda 21 mandates and accomplish the Wildland’s Project’s most ambitious goal: the RE-wilding of America.

If you live in a rural or moderately rural area, particularly in any of our western “red” states, you are likely living in a "gap”. To correct this “gap” in habitat connectivity, your activity as a “steward” of the land will be soon be subjected to much stricter regulations. Eventually, you may find it impossible to continue living, or making a living, in a “gap”. In that case, you will just have to “migrate”. Please see the GAP database to find a suitable human occupation zone.

http://www.nbii.gov/portal/server.pt/community/gap_home/1482

http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/april_2002/wildlands_project_history.htm

http://rewilding.org/rewildit/rwilding-north-america/


omots
 
Anonymous 9:20 P.M.

With all due respect, if I happen to care - along with YG and others here - that NALCO is owned by the Blackstone Group, it is because I believe that the BP disaster is a consequence of the mismanagement and malfeasance of a bunch of corrupt swine who have "hedged their bets" in such a way as to be able to profit - even if the oil spill NEVER gets cleaned up!!!
I for one want to know who the corrupt swine are......for obvious reasons.
 
Susanna 12:47 and others,

I completely understand your point, but for those who are so concerned about slander against their particular religions are not so concerned about making accusations against corporations with real people working there. I've followed this blog for a long time, and everyone is quick to jump to a conspiracy for every bad disaster. Sometimes, bad things happen and it's unfortunate. Sometimes coincedence happens and it's just that. Please, before we try and air out all these theories, we should consider if we have the facts and who benefits if we just spread lies. I for one, really don't believe that Nalco is the enemy here. Go ahead, believe it if you want, but for a company that seems so concerned with the environment, I can't believe they'd be complicit in what your accusing them of. It's counter intuitive to accuse them on one hand of earth worship and on another hand of polluting the earth with toxic chemicals. It's laughable really, and it makes us look silly for all the other work that gets done here. I don't want to hurt people's feelings here, so I won't say any more. I just ask that we are careful before trashing companies or anyone else for that matter.
 
Although I'm not a big fan of Rush Limbaugh, maybe we all need to take another look at his video from April 29th (just 9 days after the oil rig explosion):

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0429
/rush-limbaugh-hints-oil-rig-
explosion-environmental-terrorism/

"Rush Limbaugh Blames 'Environmentalist Wackos' For Massive Oil Spill"

On the videos, he mentions:

- The Cap and Trade Bill was scheduled to be announced on Earth Day: April 22, 2010.
- Questions the timing of this 'accident.'
- In sending Swat teams to the Gulf, our government appears to be 'open to the possibility this was not an accident.'
- 40 years ago was the very first Earth Day: April 22, 1970 (which was inspired by the 1969 Cuyahoga River fire in Cleveland, Ohio).
- 40 years later (just prior to Earth Day), the Gulf of Mexico was on fire.

(Note: Although the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig caught fire on April 20, 2010, it actually sank on Earth Day: April 22, 2010.)
 
Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices says you have no choice.

Panel recommends annual flu vaccinations for all Americans


By Mike Stobbe, AP
Sun, Feb 28 2010 at 7:56 AM EST


POKE 'EM: Flu shots are already recommended for 85 percent of the U.S. public.

A government panel is now recommending that virtually all Americans get a flu shot each year, starting this fall.

The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices had gradually been expanding its recommendation for flu shots — 85 percent of Americans were already included.

Last week, the panel voted to recommend a seasonal flu vaccination for everyone except babies younger than 6 months and those with egg allergies or other unusual conditions.

The panel's recommendation now goes to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC usually follows the panel's advice and spreads the message to doctors and hospitals across the country.

"Now no one should say 'Should I or shouldn't I?'" said Dr. Anthony Fiore, a CDC flu specialist.
 
Dead zone...

Quotes from some of the scientists studying the BP oil spill....

"This is the most vigorous methane eruption in modern human history,"

"The most bizarre looking oxygen profiles I have ever seen anywhere."

http://www.csmonitor.com/From-the-news-wires/2010/0618/Gulf-gas-BP-oil-spill-increases-methane-in-Gulf-waters
 
And if Rush Limbaugh says it, it must be true. He's loud, obnoxious, and has a microphone. Yep, this is all you need to get some fool to believe what you're saying. Yes, environmentalist purposely blew up the oil rig, to cause a huge disaster, to get change in environmental policy. If Americans believe this, then it's proof we've become a nation full of stupid heads.
 
Anonymous 11:07

Yes, some of us DO care, and thank-you to Susanna for her research on Nalco.

There is something here that is sitting just below the surface that is just plain weird about Nalco. By following the money trail we end up back to the beds where the enemies of our freedoms and Christian beliefs lie- the New Age Movement.

Omots' last comment is proof of that, as this all comes right back to Agenda 21 and the elimination of 90% of the world's population.

Look at the links that I left yesterday to the two Youtube videos about Codex Alimentarius and the FDA and Agenda 21 and maybe you'll start to realize how poisoning people and crops and fish and wildlife is all inter-related to the Agenda 21 goals.

Yesterday I also provided a link about genetically engineered salmon. The fish is being given approvals by the FDA just at a time when much of the Atlantic salmon could be in peril due to the oil gusher. Why engineer salmon that has been proven to be detrimental to health if people can eat fresh caught salmon? Take away the fresh caught salmon and people are left with no choice.

Corexit's allowed use by the EPA when there are other chemicals that are far less toxic to the environment and much more effective in dealing with the oil, is just another clue that we are intended to be systematically poisoned to push the New Age goals of Agenda 21. Through the oil spill and the spraying, the food supply is being cut off gradually so that they can re-wild the earth with much fewer people as Omots links show. So you kill off some fish and wildlife in the interim- if it accomplishes your goals to kill off a huge portion of the "evil" human population through poison, disease,and famine than so be it. Evil people with an evil agenda will stop at nothing to accomplish their goals of world domination and the return to their pagan earth worship.

Someone left a link to mandatory flu shots, too. Another indication that this theory is not a far-fetched conspiracy but something that is being carried out before our very eyes. We can't get our heads around the truth because we've been dumbed down and made anti-aggressive and forgetful thanks to fluoride, aspartame, and poisons in our drinking water, not to mention what else they are doing to our minds subliminally.

The fact that Nalco is a company that "purifies" drinking water while also making poisonous chemicals should be a clue that the company is hypocritical and not to be trusted. The French connection intrigued me because the name of the CEO of the Suez company is on all the same PDF files as Javier Solana. He's a Bilderburger too, and of the same ilk.

Some us are still searching for the truth, as hard and painful as it is to sometimes believe.


YG
 
More on Agenda 21 by Dr. Stanley Monteith

http://www.radioliberty.com/pca.htm
 
The Georgia Stones- America's Stonehenge and more about Agenda 21

http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm
 
Anonymous 1:44

I completely understand your point as well, and I don't beleive that NALCO is the enemy here either.....at least not all by itself.

As for who I believe the "enemy" is, I believe the "enemy" is certain persons at BP and others (i.e. "politician-CEO's") who believe that they have more to gain in terms of money and power by aiding and abetting countries like Russia - and perhaps even France and certain socialist countries in South America ( i.e. Brazil and/or Venezuela) - in efforts to gain monopolies on mineral and other resources with a view to controling other countries vis a vis their dependence upon the monopolists.

I am not talking "conspiracy." I am talking historical fact. I am talking about a moratorium on offshore drilling by Obama while a $2 billion loan was granted to state-owned Petrobras in Brazil who is planning on drilling for oil at a depth three times that of deepwater horizon.

Aren't you intrigued by the fact that little or nothing is being mentioned in the mainstream media about Robert Dudley's BP adventure in Russia? In the news I heard on television, Dudley was described as having experience "working in Asia." Please.

NALCO is not merely involved in the Deepwater Horizon disaster. NALCO is trying to get control of potable water in various parts of the world. Compared with that, profits made from the Deepwater Horizon oil spill may wind up being small potatoes.

As far back as the March 20, 2005 edition of the Seattle Times we read:

Fortune magazine has touted water as the "best investment sector for the century." The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development has said that "water is the last infrastructure frontier for private investors." The Toronto Globe & Mail has stated that "water is fast becoming a globalized corporate industry." This news should send shivers down the spine of any concerned American.

Currently, the privatized water market is led by two French multinational corporations, Suez Lyonnaise des Eaux (builders of the Suez Canal) and Veolia Environnement, though many other multinationals are also now in the market, including American companies such as General Electric and Bechtel.


cont...
 
cont...

In the United States, recent laws have paved the way for a larger private-sector presence in America's water supply. Whereas small or local public-sector operators, such as city or county utility companies, used to control the market, now the big players of world business are getting involved.

For example, Veolia (formerly owned by Vivendi) bought U.S. Filter Corporation for $6 billion, and it also owns a large portion of Air and Water Technologies. Suez once purchased two of the largest producers of water-treatment chemicals, Calgon and Nalco, and also owns United Water Resources. So much fuss was made about France's opposition to the war in Iraq, yet there was little or no public outcry over the selling of U.S. water companies to foreign interests.

Many people will argue that the privatization of water will not affect U.S. consumers, but the facts unfortunately say otherwise. When the French privatized their water services, customer rates went up 150 percent within a few years. In Britain, water corporations have had a terrible track record. In an eight-year period, from 1989 to 1997, four large corporations, including Wessex (a former subsidiary of Enron), were prosecuted 128 times for various infractions.

One of the main problems with water privatization is that the public no longer has the right to access information or data about water quality and standards. In 1998, the water supply of Sydney, Australia, currently controlled by Suez, was contaminated with cryptosordium and giardia, yet the public had not been informed when the parasites were first discovered.

When the government of Ontario, Canada, deregulated its water-protection infrastructure and privatized water-testing labs, the results were disastrous for many communities. In the small Canadian town of Walkerton, seven people died and more than 200 were sickened from drinking E. coli-contaminated water in 2000
...read more...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/
html/opinion/2002213327_sundaywater20.html

With news like that, we don't need no stinkin' conspiracy theories!!!!

When it comes to people, we are not talking about the "real people working there" either.

We are talking about dirtbag CEO's like Tony Hayward who, like certain entities at Goldman Sachs, reportedly dumped a substantial amount of BP stock shares about three weeks or so before the oil spill. The fact that 'Blackstone, Apollo and Goldman Sachs is to subsequently acquire Ondeo NALCO so soon after dumping their BP shares the way they did is a tad suspicious as far as I am concerned.

If the "real people working there" are hurt, it will be more on account of the behavior of people like Tony Hayward and Goldman Sachs executives, and not on account of the behavior of people like me and others here who seek to expose these clowns.

In any case, if you know something that we don't know, then by all means let's see your documentation.

Otherwise, it is just as laughable, silly and irresponsible to jump to the conclusion that everything bad that happens is "just a coincidence" as it is to jump to the conclusion that everything bad that happens is a "conspiracy."
 
How interesting!

Last night I was digging more into Earth Charter/Ark of Hope/Agenda 21 and I came across the Georgia Guidestones which I was previously not familiar with -- and just now I see it posted on here. Must be synchronicity... ;-)

Similarly...

omots:

Also, late into the night last night I came across a website showing red and yellow zones (areas to depopulate) and green zones (areas OK to reside -- mainly NE and west coasts as I recall) on a US map; however, I cannot find it now. (I felt certain I saved all links before I closed my computer down last night -- oh well.) I don't think this was known by "GAP" zones; but, I'm not 100% sure.
 
Control of water as an "organizing" principle:

"One of the major accomplishments of the [World Political] Council is its contribution to increasing the awareness of global water issues and the political mobilization it has reached through the World Water Forum. Serving as stepping-stones towards global collaboration on water problems, the Forum is a unique platform where the water community and the policy and decision makers from all regions of the world can link together, debate and attempt to find solutions to achieve water security."

"With the 4th World Water Forum, on the path to the achievement of the water-related Millennium Development Goals, whose deadline was set as 2015, the Council will look to establish mechanisms of cooperation and coordination to transform a global vision into concrete actions that integrate local knowledge. "



http://www.worldwatercouncil.org/index.php?id=6
 
Craig,

The first map of the Wildland’s Project that I know about was developed by Dr. Michael Coffman who basically used info he gathered from the UN’s Millenium Development Goals and various UN Treaties to construct a visual aid to try and wake people up about the green agenda…

Here’s Coffman’s map…

http://mtmultipleuse.org/wilderness/wildlands_map.htm

As far as I know, no map predicting what the Wildland’s Project will eventually look like has been released by any environmental group. (They’re just not that stupid!) There were some North American wildlife corridor maps put out, but none with much detail.

Please note: Coffman’s map vastly understates the green agenda. It is not accurate and does not show the vast extent of all State, Tribal, and Federal Land holdings to date.

The links below will take you to more accurate maps which show all State and Federal land holdings and land acquisitions to date. This is likely the map with the red and the green areas you mentioned:

http://citizenreviewonline.org/special_issues/land_grab_map.jpg

or

http://citizenreviewonline.org/special_issues/wildlands_project_maps.htm

Here is a link to a website with all of the above maps and the general corridor map….

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/articles2/wildlands_project_and_un_convent.htm



omots
 
If the New World Order's main goal is to reduce the world's population down to 500 million people...then what part of this does anyone out there not understand?
 
omots:

While the Coffman map (the first link) works, I cannot get the others to work. It looks as though not all the link is showing on this site. Could you do a tiny url?

http://tinyurl.com/

The Coffman map looks similar to the one I saw, although, of course, it's missing the green areas.
 
Only God knows what happened in the Gulf of Mexico on April 20th.

However, if Obama ordered Swat Teams to the Gulf on April 29th, that does seem to indicate that our own government wasn't ruling out the possibility that this was not an accident.

WHO did it and WHY? The Jury is still out.

One thing is for certain - this is a catastrophe of biblical proportions!
 
Sorry Craig, try these….

http://tinyurl.com/24abgv2

http://tinyurl.com/24zlyuw

http://tinyurl.com/247oqfu

You can also use your search engine to find same. Search “Wildland’s Project Maps” or go to USGS Maps and search Federal, State, Tribal holdings.

omots
 
Anonymous 12:17

When I went back and listened to Obama's speech in the Rose Garden on April 29th, I immediately reacted to his mention of using swat teams and The Department of Defense, as an indication that there may have been sabotage or a terrorist attack. Here is the beginning of the President's speech that day; pay special attention to the last sentence:

"THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon, everybody. Hello, everybody. Please have a seat. Welcome to the White House. Welcome to the Rose Garden. This is an extraordinary occasion, a beautiful day -- appropriately so. So I hate to intrude on it, but before we begin I do want to speak briefly to the American people about the recent BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

I've been receiving frequent briefings from members of my Cabinet and White House staff, including an update last night on the additional breach and another update this morning. And while BP is ultimately responsible for funding the cost of response and cleanup operations, my administration will continue to use every single available resource at our disposal, including potentially the Department of Defense, to address the incident."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-rose-garden

We don't know what happened there, but no one can convince me that any of the irresponsible shenanigans of BP, or the black-out of the media on important issues (including the use of Corexit over alternatives), or Obama's unwillingness to bring in engineers, scientists and the expertise of other nations much more experienced in cleaning up massive spills, is a coincidence or a normal response to a horrific event like this.

YG
 
Craig,

I posted the link on the Georgia Stones, and I think most Americans are as ignorant of them, as they are ignorant of the existence of Javier Solana and Agenda 21.

I first saw the map of the "wilding" of America, and learned about Agenda 21 back in 1994 while attending a CWA conference in DC. I know that Constance has problems with Tim and Beverly LaHaye, but at the time CWA certainly did a remarkable job of compiling info about the NWO, abortion, the UN, etc. and distributing it to Christian women like myself who wanted to know the truth.

When I first learned about Agenda 21 at that conference, I kind of went into shock. Then I shrugged it off as preposterous. Yet here we are 15 years later, seeing it mainstreamed before our very eyes through the FDA, the World Health Organization and Obama's health care policy. No need to call any of this a conspiracy any more!

YG
 
Susanna said:

"NALCO is not merely involved in the Deepwater Horizon disaster. NALCO is trying to get control of potable water in various parts of the world."

Exactly! As I said yesterday, control the water and food supply and you can control the masses and the world.

Privatization of the water supplies by multi-national companies with ties to the hierarchy is NOT a good thing!

YG
 
Susanna said:

"I am not talking "conspiracy." I am talking historical fact. I am talking about a moratorium on offshore drilling by Obama while a $2 billion loan was granted to state-owned Petrobras in Brazil who is planning on drilling for oil at a depth three times that of deepwater horizon."

Most people have not considered that fact in evaluating whether or not this is a conspiracy, but clearly the already fragile US economy is the loser in this situation.

YG
 
Anonymous 11:22 A.M.

Good find!!!

The "control of water" tied in with the water-related Millenium Development Goals???

As I said, with articles like that, we don't need no stinkin' conspiracy theories!!! We couldn't even make up this stuff!

Here is one.....have you ever heard of a "hydraulic empire?"

HYDRAULIC EMPIRE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydra
ulic_empire
 
Crazy Nonsense 9:00

I also have no time for Rush Limbaugh, and I cannot stand listening to a man with an ego his size. However, if you replace the word 'environmentalists' with 'Agenda 21 proponent', then his theory is a little easier to swallow.

I have 2 dear friends who have devoted their entire lives to environmental work. He is a botany professor and she does volunteer work for everything from Catholic Charities to good organizations like Mote Marine in Sarasota, FL. The two of them get up at dawn every day to go to the beach and do a turtle nest patrol. Most people have no idea how high the odds are against a baby sea turtle's survival. Most people also don't realize that the turtles eat the sea grass on the ocean floor and in thus doing that they protect the grasses from developping bacterias that are harmful to marine life.

Anyone who loves God, must love the beautiful creation that He has provided for us here on earth. The environmentalists that we are talking about here, are not good people like my friends who love nature's sea creatures and birds and go to church each Sunday, but evil people who hate God and hate humanity.

That's the difference.
 
Anonymous 12:13 AM said:

"Chemicals are chemicals. This one works kind of like dishwashing liquid. It breaks up the particles of oil. You'd rather huge oil slicks?"

Dishwashing liquid? The temperature of the water here in the gulf is around 90 degrees. It was 94 where I live as of last week. That makes the use of Corexit even more dangerous because it doesn't stay liquid in these temperatures- it can convert to gas in the atmosphere. BP is using dispersants to hide the extent of the spill. The oil sinks to the bottom of the sea floor and kills off the tiny organisms that live there and which the food chain depends upon. There are chemicals LESS toxic to the environment that BP refuses to use.

In addition to chemicals, there are much better ways to handle a clean up then making it more toxic with chemicals.

There is a company right here on the Gulf called Munox, that uses a bacteria to speed up petroleum degradation by consuming the oil and breaking it down to harmless substances. I called Bill Nelson to ask why we aren't using a product like that instead of Corexit and I got the brush off. Here is an article about the product in the local paper:

Read more: http://www.bradenton.com/2010/06/18/2371896/crist-visits-sarasota-to-view.html#ixzz0s4lfpRUM

or
http://tinyurl.com/242azua

There is also a company in Austria that makes similar products that will also bio-degrade oil products rapidly, without harming the environment. It is eco-friendly and only harmless residues remain.Link below:

http://www.bioversal.com/bioversal2004/main.html

So my question is why is the government and EPA allowing BP to use the highly toxic Corexit to disperse the oil, instead of a product like this, or the product Munox, produced right here on the Gulf in Osprey? Business is decimated here. It would be a tiny bright spot to give this Gulf company the business. So why?

While I don't agree with all of the sites that this article has linked to, much of what is in this article is certainly true. It certainly raises major red flags in my mind.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/why-has-barack-obama-refused-to-accept-international-help-to-clean-up-the-oil-spill-in-the-gulf-of-mexico

or
http://tinyurl.com/29hh43w

YG
 
P.S.

Anonymous 11:22 A.M and YG

Here are more related links.

REBELLION AGAINST WATER MONOPOLY

Monopoly Privatization versus Human Freedom

Commodifying Rain?


Turbulence in the "global water market"! Water is essential to human life, and is limited in supply. Sounds like an important economic topic, but to some it just sounds like a good way to gain power over others.
Should natural resources be turned into a private monopoly? Here are some excerpts from an article that recently appeared in Le Monde Diplomatique....


by Franck Poupeau

http://www.progress.org/water15.htm
_________________________________

Bolivia's Natural Resource Crisis Foreshadows Worldwide Situation

Attempts to Make a Water Monopoly Result in Violence


There's a water revolt in Bolivia, caused by corrupt bureaucratic plans to make natural resources into an artificial monopoly. Here is a thorough piece of commentary from the London Observer that summarizes the situation so far.

http://www.progress.org/water14.htm
________________________________

Supreme Court Decision on Water Monopoly in Batam

May 11, 2010

http://indolaw.alafghani.info
/2010/05/supreme-court-decision-on
-water.html
__________________________________

And here is a June 3, 1999 article about our good friend Monsanto - with whom Muhammad Yunus tried to make a deal in terms of his microfinancing schemes.

Among other things, Monsanto was the developer of the infamous "Terminator seeds."

MONSANTO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto

Other genetically modified seeds would have been introduced into Bangladesh by requiring the recipients of microcredit to buy their seed from Monsanto. Because of all the bad publicity and opposition, Yunus had to quickly scrap his partnership with Monsanto.

Check out the following....

Monsanto Moves to Control Water Resources & Fish Farming
in India & the Third World--


Vandana Shiva
Date: 03 Jun 1999

http://www.purefood.org/Monsanto/waterfish.cfm
________________________________

Isn't it interesting that Carl Casale is not only the director of NALCO Holding Company (since October 2008), but also Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer for Monsanto Company, a post he has held since September 2009????

http://markets.ft.com/tearsheets/
businessProfile.asp?s=NLC:NYQ

See also......

http://people.forbes.com/profile/
carl-m-casale/54821
 
White House Preparing National Online ID Plan

The proposed system for authenticating people, organizations and infrastructure on the web at the transactional level will require an identity ecosystem.

By Mathew J. Schwartz
InformationWeek
June 25, 2010 08:00 AM

The Obama administration is set to propose a new system for authenticating people, organizations and infrastructure on the Web... will require creating an "identity ecosystem," backed by extensive public/private cooperation, said White House cybersecurity coordinator Howard Schmidt, delivering the opening keynote speech at the Symantec Government Symposium 2010 in Washington on Tuesday.

... that path forward will hinge on a new draft of the National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace, due to be released Friday for the first time to the public, for a three-week comment period. Formerly known as the National Strategy for Secure Online Transactions, the report offers specific strategy and implementation recommendations, and may also recommend more sweeping policy and privacy changes.


Dave in CA
 
So, there are good environmentalists and then there are bad ones? The bad ones don't really care about the environment, but just pretend?

To be fair liberals are just as guilty of getting behind a microphone or TV camera just waiting to spout off there stupid nonsense. Liberal stupid nonsense versus conservative stupid nonsense. That's what it's all become. We've become a bunch of stupid heads. And we wonder why America's in trouble.
 
Susanna and YG

Not sure if you've seen this one, but here's a link concerning the
smart grid for water

http://nanotechwire.com/news.asp?nid=7975

Leana
 
As someone who is very sensitive to chemicals and concerned about safety in general, I thought I'd take a look at the Corexit MSDS sheet after all this talk about it. I worked around a lot of chemicals in college and my responsiblity was to keep the MSDS sheets for all the chemicals we had in our lab and make sure we had appropriate safety equipment for each of the products we used.

So, I'm not a biochemist, but I am trained in industrial chemicals.
When I look at the corexit sheet, the only thing that really stands out to me is that those working around it should be wearing proper respirators and protective clothing. That's standard around any chemicals, especially if you are sensitive. The treatment for too much exposure to it is ventilation, and since most people that would suffer exposure are outside anyway, that kind of takes care of itself.

Whether it produces vapors at 90degree water, I'm sure it does, since even water produces water vapor at 90 degree temps. However, those responsible for hiring the clean up workers should be providing proper ventilators for those workers due to OSHA regs.

I did see the interview with the Nalco CEO on ABC news, and he plainly said, that they have a product, if BP or the government wants to use a different product, it was OK with him. They are not in control of who purchases and uses their products. They had Corexit available as do other manufacturers have their products. But there may be legitimate reasons that they went with corexit. Concerning the sheer amount needed, are we positive that these other alternatives have enough product available and can distribute it in a timely manner?

Could there be a coverup? Sure, there could be with any thing, the public is not always made aware of all decisions. If we were, most stuff would never get done.

I know that looking at the MSDS sheet there is lots of talk on it about toxicity. Have you ever compared it with regular paint? The vapors off paint are extremely toxic, yet rarely do people wear the proper equipment for it.
The main ingredient in corexit is propylene glycol which is a common ingredient in women's makeup. And yes, your makeup has a MSDS with a toxicity report. The main point of MSDS sheets is not to demonize chemicals but to allow for using them safely.

I can understand everyone's concern about chemicals being spread over the gulf. That's not ideal, but at this point, I'm not sure there's that many other feasible choices. The lesser of two evils would be to me, getting it cleaned up as quick as possible, even if that required using dispersants.

What would concern me the most about corexit would be flash fire, but since that happens at temps 181 or higher I doubt that will be an issue, as well, they suggest flooding amounts of water to douse a fire, and since this is being used over the water, I think that recommendation is filled.

There's my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

Leana
 
Leana,

I hope that you are right. I really hope that you are.

Thanks for your 2 cents.

YG
 
Leana,

I hope you are right too....and thanks for the link concerning the smart grid for water. I had not seen it.
 
A valuable website regarding the dispersant Corexit. Leana appears to be wrong in her assessment-dead wrong.The site also contains a link to a petition to the gov't to stop the use of Corexit.

http://oilspilltruth.wordpress.com/dispersants/
 
http://www.ynetnews.com/
articles/0,7340,L-
3910714,00.html

Drudge's headline for the above link-

PAPER: White House in secret talks with Hamas; Doesn't want to 'rouse Jewish lobby'...
 
This is information on the woman who wrote the article. She wrote it as a PhD Candidate and it appeared first at Fride. We don't know how this paper was reviewed before she submitted it for publication.

http://www.fride.org/expert/537/daniela-huber

Daniela Huber
Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Israel PhD Candidate (The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Israel). Daniela Huber holds an MA in International Relations from the Free University of Berlin. Her research interests include democracy promotion, democratisation and the foreign policies of the European Union and the United States towards the Middle East.

Before starting her PhD, Daniela worked as a Carlo Schmid Fellow at the United Nations Office for Project Services in Copenhagen, Denmark.

Dorothy
 
Fascinating article here about the Georgia Guidestones:

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/ff_guidestones
 
http://www.redstate.com/vladimir/2010/06/26/a-little-perspective-on-the-bp-spill/ Also read the comments

I would trust Leana, but I don't know who else to trust in this arena. We are into a very big spin on what the problems are. The government, and that means the Obama crew with their efforts to turn this to their advantage in terms of making new regulation are on one side. BP would like the other side. I can only assume big money is going into both side to get their spin across.

As the saying goes, you pick your poison. Don't just be swayed by the emotional pictures found on the television.

Even take into account what I posted earlier that Obama and crew will make money on the chemicals used to clear the spill because of their financial involvement in the companies.

Dorothy

Dorothy
 
Attack of the flexians...

"flexians" -def.- the movers and shakers of the shadow elite who glide across borders, and structure overlapping (and not fully revealed) roles in government, business, media, and think tanks to serve their own agendas.

Sunday, June 27, 2010
The Powers-That-Be Are Terrified of the Mass Awakening Taking Place Worldwide

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/06/powers-that-be-are-terrified-of-mass.html

or

http://tinyurl.com/278qs32

and

Wednesday, June 9, 2010
Chairman of Goldman Sachs International Was - Until Last Year - Also Chairman of BP

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/06/chairman-of-goldman-sachs-international.html

or

http://tinyurl.com/29pd9oz
 
Susanna,

WOW! Excellent links and research!

You said:
"Isn't it interesting that Carl Casale is not only the director of NALCO Holding Company (since October 2008), but also Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer for Monsanto Company, a post he has held since September 2009???? "

The interconnections here are beyond interesting and certainly beyond conspiracy. Both Nalco and Monsanto are attempting to control water resources. Monsanto and Nalco both have produced chemicals deemed toxic to the environment. In addition to Nalco's Corexit, Monsantos list reads like a horror movie- Agent Orange, Roundup, DDT, etc. Monsanto is heavily into genetically engineered foodstuffs from the terminator seed to bovine hormones. Now it's into fish farms. Very interesting and what a great time to push the FDA fast forward into genetically engineered fish, what with Asian Carp found in the Great Lakes, and the horrific blow being dealt to the fish industry as a result of the Gulf disaster.

Monsanto was connected to many farmer's suicides in India. Will Nalco be connected to many fisherman's suicides in the Gulf states? Monsanto is responsible for at least 50 of the the US's Superfund clean up sites due to its chemicals. Meanwhile Nalco, the so-called environmentally friendly company that co-sponsored the B4E global summit during Earth Day 2010 celebrations is producing millions of gallons of corexit for BP that could possibly render the Gulf of Mexico into a total dead zone for decades to come!

The connections of these two companies are more than fascinating. Including the very interesting French and Russia connections that Susanna pointed out, the list goes on and on. Now we also discover the BP and Goldman Saks connection, which turns around and goes back to Nalco. Monsanto became heavily connected to the FDA through the patent on the terminator seed. Many former Monsanto employees now work for the gov't in various appointed positions in the EPA, and FDA. This should be a reminder of why we can no longer trust these agencies with our health and welfare.

The link below is also interesting in that it shows even more connections of Monsanto to the Clintons, the Stephens Group and the Rockefellers. There's other revealing connections to Wall street, Tyson Foods, Mike Espy, Walmart and the BCCI bank scandal. Doesn't get much better than this.

If you think about the food and water supply being intentionally controlled by multi-national corporations, we can be assured that it all goes back to Maurice Strong, Gorbachev and the other Earth Summit fiends and their sustainable development and Agenda 21 goals. Follow the money trail and it goes back to the same groups. As Henry Kissinger said,
‘Control the oil and you can control entire Continents. Control food and you control people…’ He forgot about the water part...

As we speak, Maurice Strong and Gorbachev are co-chairing the Earth Charter Commission this year. Steven Rockefeller is sponsoring the USA.

There ain't no stinkin' conspiracy here, it's right in front of us.Wish I could follow this stuff all day , But I've gotta get off this stinkin' computer...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=3082

YG
 
Thanks for the vote of confidence Dorothy. Like I said, I am just offering an opinion. My main point I was trying to cover was the effect Corexit was having on workers in the gulf. I've read much that said they are getting ill from it, but my point is, if they are properly geared up, there should be no problem.

All we can go on as far as environmental impact is guesses from studies that have been done. From the research I've seen, there are not a lot of studies out there. Which brings me to my second point. For as much as people are coming against this product, there are really not enough studies for OR against it to prove what kind of environmental impact this particular formula will have.

It really has never been used in the way they are using it, and they admit that. However, there has never really been a spill like this, so we're seeing uncharted territory. Ultimately we'll see if they made the right choice only in hindsight.

Which makes me think there it is a bunch of propaganda on both sides. Those against chemicals are mostly the same breed of environmentalists who spread propaganda for the "rewilding" of the globe. If it isn't "natural" they don't want it.
On the flip side you have those who say lets use what technology we have to avert disaster. I am not saying it has no cost to the environment, but I am sympathetic to those in charge trying to make the best of a terrible situation.
 
Leana,

Thanks for smart grid for water links!

By the way, I know nothing about this site, so I am not taking any of it as truth, but just wondered if the ingredients for Corexit on this site are the same ones that you looked into?

Thanks,
TG
 
Here's the source on the corexit ingredients

http://www.nalco.com/news-and-events/4297.htm

When I was reviewing the msds sheet it was the one that is also posted at their site, but it is commonly available on the web.

To be thorough, I am going to contact a friend who is a bio chemist and see what their opinion is. I'll let you know when I hear back.

Leana
 
I guess I'll let them speak for themselves:
http://www.nalco.com/news-and-events/4348.htm

We can only use available information to think critically about these types of things, but this is a good first step in resolving some of the initial complaints and accusations. Whether you believe the sources they use, including Tulane, that's up to you. As a Tulane alumni I might be a little biased in their favor.
 
YG,

Did you know that NALCO was at one time the owner of the infamous IBT Labs?

NALCO purchased IBT from Joseph Calandra in 1966.

IBT was notorious for falsifying and/or destroying its data.

Although you have to subscribe to read the following article, the first page of the PDF version can be read here:

THE MURKY WORLD OF TOXICITY TESTING

June, 1983

Four Scientists are on Trial for fraud in a case that has cast doubt on the safety of 200 pesticides and on EPA's monitoring procedures.

http://scienceonline.org/cgi/pdf_
extract/220/4602/1130
_________________________________

By the way, IBT Labs was the company hired by Monsanto in 1970 to test PCB's.

In 1978, a leading toxicity testing laboratory, Industrial Bio-Test Laboratories, Inc., was closed after disclosures that thousands of its tests of "high use" pesticides, drugs, food additives, soaps, and cosmetics were faked or improperly conducted. In 1970, IBT Labs was hired by Monsanto to test PCBs. One of IBT’s top executives was Dr. Paul Wright, a Monsanto toxicologist who took a job at IBT Labs in part to supervise the PCB tests. Afterwards, he returned to Monsanto. Wright was eventually convicted of multiple counts of fraud in one of the longest criminal trials in U.S. history --- with his legal fees paid by Monsanto. Internal memos show that in at least two instances the lab’s conclusion that PCBs were "slightly tumorigenic" was changed to "non-carcinogenic" at Monsanto’s request. Courtroom testimony indicates that IBT Labs was aware that PCBs caused extremely high numbers of tumors in test rats, but IBT Labs certified PCBs as non-carcinogenic.....

http://www.foxriverwatch.com/compl
ications_facing_cancer_researchers
.html
_______________________________

For those of you who may not recall the serious health issues related to PCB exposure....

THE HISTORY OF PCB's

When Were Health Problems Detected?

http://www.foxriverwatch.com/
monsanto2a_pcb_pcbs.html
 
Evidently Propylene glycol is a type of antifreeze. From Wikipedia:

"Propylene glycol, on the other hand, is considerably less toxic and may be labeled as "non-toxic antifreeze." It is used as antifreeze where ethylene glycol would be inappropriate, such as in food-processing systems or in water pipes in homes, as well as numerous other settings. It is also used in food, medicines, and cosmetics, often as a binding agent. Propylene glycol is "generally recognized as safe" by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use in food. However, propylene glycol-based antifreeze should not be considered safe for consumption. In the event of accidental ingestion, emergency medical services should be contacted immediately.

Propylene glycol oxidizes when exposed to air and heat. When this occurs lactic acid is formed.[8][9] If not properly inhibited, this fluid can be very corrosive.[citation needed] Protodin is added to propylene glycol to act as a buffer, preventing low pH attack on the system metals. It forms a protective skin inside the tank and pipelines which helps to prevent acid attack that cause corrosion.

Besides cooling system breakdown, biological fouling also occurs. Once bacterial slime starts, the corrosion rate of the system increases. In systems where a glycol solution is maintained on a continuous basis, regular monitoring of freeze protection, pH, specific gravity, inhibitor level, color and biological contamination should be checked routinely.

Propylene glycol should be replaced when it turns reddish in color."

Frankly, this stuff does not belong around sealife, waterfowl or humans, and in the quantities in which it is being used.
 
More about Propylene glycol from Wikipedia indicates it is also used to de-ice planes. As someone who has experienced red tide, and the respiratory problems and nervous system problems that it causes, I am very, very concerned about what Propylene glycol is doing to the oxygen levels in the Gulf of Mexico, and the amounts of dead zones and accompanying red tide that it is going to create:

“Propylene glycol is known to exert high levels of biochemical oxygen demand (BOD) during degradation in surface waters. This process can adversely affect aquatic life by consuming oxygen aquatic organisms need to survive. Large quantities of dissolved oxygen (DO) in the water column are consumed when microbial populations decompose ethylene glycol.

The oxygen depletion potential of airport deicing operation discharges is many times greater than that of raw sewage. For example, before application, Type I propylene glycol-based deicing fluid is generally diluted to a mixture containing approximately 50% propylene glycol. Pure propylene glycol has a five-day biochemical oxygen demand (BOD5) concentration of approximately 1,000,000 mg/L. A typical diluted propylene-based deicing fluid could therefore have a BOD5 concentration of approximately 500,000 mg/L. In comparison, raw sewage typically has a BOD5 concentration of approximately 200 mg/L. The amount of fluid used to deice a single jet depends on the nature of the precipitation event and the size of the aircraft but can range from a couple hundred to several thousand gallons. Therefore, deicing a single jet can generate a BOD5 load greater than that of one million gallons of raw sewage. A large hub airport often has several hundred flights each day.

Sufficient DO levels in surface waters are critical for the survival of fish, macroinvertebrates, and other aquatic organisms. If oxygen concentrations drop below a minimum level, organisms emigrate, if able and possible, to areas with higher oxygen levels or eventually die. This effect can drastically reduce the amount of useable aquatic habitat. Reductions in DO levels can reduce or eliminate bottom-feeder populations, create conditions that favor a change in a community’s species profile, or alter critical food-web interactions.”
 
Susanna,

Great find! And another reason to distrust this company and the information it is giving out about its products!

This YouTube video certainly seems quite alarming. This young woman and her family live at ground zero of the spill. She is citing health problems that her family and neighbors are all experiencing. IS it the oil or the dispersant? I don't know but certainly there is something affecting their health and yes, Leana is right- they should all have protective clothing and masks. According to this young women they are not permitted to wear protection! This brave woman is probably risking a lot to do this video. I applaud her courage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkYJDI8pK9Y

YG
 
BP OIL SPILL COREXIT DISPERSANTS SUSPECTED IN WIDESPREAD CROP DAMAGE

BP has dumped 1.4 million gallons of Corexit on the Gulf of Mexico.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-
bin/blogs/ybenjamin/detail?
entry_id=65552#ixzz0sBkJEt4R
 
Anonymous 6:33

I'm not buying the crop damage hysteria as being caused by Corexit spraying. Most likely cause was a vapor leak at a Lucite plant in May. If other areas in the South outside of Memphis Tennessee report recent crop damage, then maybe I'll reconsider my position.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/may/25/vapor-leak-dupont-plant-frayser-shuts-down-some-bu/?print=1

YG
 
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