Monday, October 12, 2009

EU (AND SOLANA) LEAVE ITS MARK ON WORLD STAGE

The attached article by Javier Solana may be read in its entirety by clicking here.

It will be interesting to watch and see whether any successor materializes or not. It is indisputable that indeed he has made his mark and put his machinery in place with interestingly named legislation: Section 666 and Recommendation 666!

Now we shall see whether it is he or another that will benefit from his labors that I began observing on November 22, 1995 and beyond.

S T A Y T U N E D!!!

CONSTANCE

Comments:
Hi Constance,
I've emailed you with the Subject heading:
ONGOING CORDIS SECURITY RESEARCH/PROJECT INDECT

-Rudi
 
the date of this article is interesting
11 (antichrist) october 10 2009 9h
a nine equal a 6 so 10 + 2 = 12
date = 6666
or 10 + 2 +9 + 9 = 30 = 5x6 = 66666

It is interesting that he boast that now EU can deploys forces rapidly. FP has a comment by a lawyer, on the book recommendation 666 about the growing militarization of the European Union
http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/page/endorsements/

I wanted to add about the ten kings something that I read a few years ago, that the nobility of Europe gave their money to a special bank to receive later the royalty of their country.(do not remember where and cannot find it either but am sure I read it)
When you live in Europe and see that the nobility still has pretension of the throne, you can believe that maybe it can be true.
"Point de vue" is a magazine that shows their mariage, events, etc that people buy maybe to dream a little. There are pages too about them on the net.

do you know this page :
http://www.theflucase.com/
I think it is worth to have a look.

God bless you
Frences
 
Brookings
here something about JS

The European Union, Lisbon and the Office Hunt

http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2009/1012_lisbon_treaty_bindi.aspx

and about the vaccinations the word sorcery in Rev. 18 24 can be translated : pharmakei (greek) and also drug.
rev. 18 24for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Frences
 
this is just the part that I wanted to highlight !


The European Union, Lisbon and the Office Hunt


October 12, 2009 —
.... The first and most important step in implementation will be the choice of the individuals to fill the new posts of high representative and president. .....

The State of the Art....
... the most probable outcome will be the extension of the current Commission until the end of December. Javier Solana is also probably to be extended as high representative.
to read the article :
http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2009/1012_lisbon_treaty_bindi.aspx

Frences
 
Hi Constance,
I just received the info about the ley of distrustfulnes to be soon in EU
Come way back from the French Revolution and the nazi
It is in English by profesor Wagner
of Christian Concern for our nation.
http://www.ccfon.org/mediacentre.php?avid=266&avap=1
Frences
 
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October 13, 2009
The Menace from U.N.C.L.E.
Posted by David Kramer on October 13, 2009 06:07 AM

During the “spy craze” of the mid-1960s, my favorite TV show was The Man from U.N.C.L.E.* The show was about a secret agent who worked for a global police force that was funded by most of the nations of the world. (U.N.C.L.E. stood for “United Network Command for Law and Enforcement”—although originally the producers wanted the U.N. to stand for “United Nations.” I remember as a kid first presuming that that was what it actually did stand for, until I found out otherwise. As you’ll see below, I’m not so sure my first presumption was incorrect.)

INTERPOL AND U.N. BACK ‘GLOBAL POLICING DOCTRINE’

Interpol and the United Nations are poised to become partners in fighting crime by jointly grooming a global police force that would be deployed as peacekeepers among rogue nations riven by war and organized crime, officials from both organizations say. On Monday, justice and foreign ministers from more than 60 countries, including the United States and China, are gathering in Singapore for a meeting hosted by the two international organizations.

It is the first step toward creating what Interpol calls a “global policing doctrine” that would enable Interpol and the United Nations to improve the skills of police peacekeepers, largely by sharing a secure communications network and a vast electronic trove of criminal information, including DNA records, fingerprints, photographs and fugitive notices. “We have a visionary model,” said Ronald K. Noble, secretary general of Interpol and the first American to head the international police organization, which is based in Lyon. More than 187 member nations finance the organization.

Oh, did I forget to mention that I’m one of those conspiracy “nuts” that believes that the banking and royal families that run the world are trying to bring about a One World Government with a One World Currency and a One World Police Force? I guess this latest story proves what a “nut” I am.
_______________________________
*A bit of trivia: Ian Fleming, the creator of “James Bond,” was also the creator of The Man from U.N.C.L.E. Fleming himself worked for British Naval I
 
Hi Rudi:

Good to see you back. The various Framework (Cordis) Projects have all been creepy, with INDECT so far apparently topping them all. The last article has much material I posted on PROJECT INDECT in the comments section.

Thanks!
Constance
 
I have the funniest feeling that the passage about "merchants were great" might apply to the USA and the EU's execution of its often expressed goal to take the USA out as a competing global superpower in the 21st century struggle for scarce global resources.

Constance
 
To Frances:

Thanks for the lead on the Brookings Institution article on the Brussels scramble. Critical information and I had not yet seen it. The link cut off and I had to search within Brookings website to find the specific article which I did, archived, and read. For others, here's a TINYURL link:

http://tinyurl.com/ygedcb5

Thanks, Frances!

Constance
 
CORDIS and INDECT same as the TOTAL INFORMATION AWARENESS program. Just as the INTERNET is no longer controlled by U.S., looks like INTERPOL/UN will control TIA.
 
I apologise in advance for the amount of space I am about to use here, but I find the issue of 'rapture' of vital importance if we are not to be deceived or lose hope in the last days. It is not just a matter of opinion but is about Holy Scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit, and although there are some errors in the KJV, these, with a little research can be found and rectified by reference to and comparison with the Hebrew and Greek texts where no error is found.

Please forgive my audacity and be patient with me here.

2 Timothy 3:15-17 (King James Version)

15. And that from a CHILD thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17. That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


Romans 3:3-4 (King James Version)

3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Rob in London.
 
Taken from: http://www.bethelministries.com/pretrib.htm


" PRE-TRIB RAPTURE---
Fact or Fable?

Harry Bethel
BethelMinistries.com

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Tim. 4:3-4).

Jesus prayed to the Father, "My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one" (Jn. 17:15).

Concerning the endtime Jesus said, "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and be put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of Me" (Mt. 24:9).

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the Word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands" (Rev. 20:4).

There is a widespread teaching today that says that Christians will be raptured before the last-days Great Tribulation spoken of in Daniel chapter 12 and Revelation chapters 6 through 20. But, in this article you will see that, according to the Scriptures, Jesus will rapture the saints on the last day of the Great Tribulation, not before it. You will see that neither the apostle Paul nor the apostle Peter believed in the imminent return of Christ. And you will see that the pre-tribulation rapture theory is a false doctrine---it is a fable.

First we will consider the origin of the pre-tribulation rapture theory, and then see some of the reasons why many Christians believe it. Then we will look at the relevant passages of Scripture that will show that many sincere Christians are deceived about this very important doctrine in these last days.

Origin of the Pre-Trib Rapture Theory

The pre-trib rapture theory is not something that God has revealed to us in these last days. Indeed it is a doctrine from demons that has been perpetuated through well-meaning men for the past few generations. "

Continued. (Rob in London)
 
" There is no known writing existing, or referred to by other writers, of the pre-trib rapture teaching prior to 1830. None of the early Church fathers or anyone else throughout Church history wrote about the saints being raptured before the end-time Great Tribulation. This does not conclusively mean that the theory is false, only that it is a historical fact that this teaching did not exist among the early Christians or the Church fathers or any Christians throughout history until 1830.

Reportedly the origin of the pre-trib rapture teaching was with a fifteen-year-old girl named Margaret MacDonald in the town of Port Glasgow, Scotland. Supposedly in 1830 she had a dream or vision that Christians were raptured just prior to the Great Tribulation. In 1831 or 1832 a Presbyterian pastor in London, England named Edward Irving heard about this dream or vision that Miss MacDonald had and started teaching it to his congregation. These are well-known reports among scholars of eschatology.

These reports concerning the origin of the pre-trib rapture theory may or may not be true. What is well-documented is the fact that John Nelson Darby, the founder of a group known as the Plymouth Brethren, after visiting Miss MacDonald began teaching this new theory.

Later, by 1917, C. I. Scofield had published his improved edition of the Scofield Reference Bible which contained the dispensational pre-tribulation teachings of Darby and others. Soon many Bible Colleges such as Moody Bible Institute and seminaries such as Dallas Theological Seminary became staunch promoters of dispensational theology that included the doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture. "

Rob in London (Cont.)
 
" In 1970 Hal Lindsey, who attended Dallas Theological Seminary, popularized this teaching with his book titled The Late Great Planet Earth. Several million copies have been sold and a movie by the same title was made.

The widespread acceptance of a doctrine does not make it true. What really matters is not whether some Bible colleges and seminaries teach the pre-tribulation rapture theory, or whether many pastors teach it, or whether many Christians accept it as true; what really matters is what does the Word of God say?

Most Christians in this country are not spiritually ready to go through what is on the horizon if it is as late as we think it is. The days of the Great Tribulation will be the worst time that this world has ever seen. And this earth has seen some very bad times. Probably not many Christians will be ready to go through the Great Tribulation, but believing that you are going to be raptured out before it begins is certainly not conducive to spiritual preparation for it. "

Rob in London (Cont.)
 
" Imminent Return of Christ?

The pre-trib rapture teaching of many church leaders carries with it the doctrine of the imminent return of Christ. This is the belief that Christ could return at any moment, even before you finish reading this sentence.

The apostle Peter did not believe that Jesus would return at any moment after He ascended into heaven. Jesus, before His ascension, told Peter that he would live to be an old man, which would be many years later, and how he would die to glorify God (Jn. 21:18-19).

Paul knew that he was a chosen vessel unto the Lord to bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel (Acts 9:15). The apostle knew that the rapture would not take place before this ministry was accomplished.

So, if Peter and Paul did not believe in the imminent return of Christ, then when can Christians believe that Christ could return at any moment? The answer is recorded in Luke 21:25-28. "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them for fear and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." These things will happen on the last day of the Great Tribulation. "
 
" Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit of Christ, wrote concerning the rapture, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by [concerning] the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by [concerning] our gathering together unto him...Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (2 Thess. 2:1-3).

Paul wrote, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air...For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night...But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief" (1 Thess. 4:16-17, 5:2-4).

Jesus will rapture the saints with the sound of a trump. Which trump? Paul wrote, "Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor. 15:51-52).

When is the last trump? According to the Revelation there are seven trumpets during the Great Tribulation. The seventh and last trumpet recorded in Scripture is sounded on the last day of the tribulation: "And the seventh angel sounded [the seventh and last trumpet]; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever...And the nations were angry, and thy wrath [from which the saints were delivered] is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints" (Rev. 11:15-18). "

Rob in London (Cont.)
 
" The Chronology of the Revelation

It is imperative to know that the last day of the tribulation is depicted in six passages throughout the Revelation. It is impossible to understand the chronology of the events of the Great Tribulation without seeing this. The last day of the Great Tribulation is portrayed (perhaps within a few verses before and after) in the following passages in the Revelation: 6:12-17; 11:15-19; 14:14-20; 16:17-21; 19:11-21; and 20:9-21:8. John the Revelator wrote of events that he saw and then wrote of the last day. Then he wrote of events that he saw and then wrote of the last day. He did this six times in the Book of Revelation.

Not Appointed to Which Wrath?

We are living in times of easy believism, easy credit, easy living, and easy exit for the saints. The major point that pre-tribulationists try to make to uphold their view is that God has not appointed us to wrath. But we must answer the question, What is the wrath to which we are not appointed? And, can saints go through the Great Tribulation without directly suffering the wrath of God, as did the Old Testament saints in Egypt when God sent his plagues because of Pharaoh?

One of the purposes of the Great Tribulation will be for unrepentant worldlings to experience the judgment of God as have sinful societies throughout history, from the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jerusalem, and others up to the worldwide judgment of the end-time Tribulation. Another purpose will be the persecution of the saints during the Great Tribulation in order to clean us up for the return of Christ. Much of the suffering of the saints during this terrible time will be from persecution and not directly from the judgments of God. (There will, however, be suffering because of not being able to buy or sell without the mark of the Beast, etc. Christians who do not take the mark will not be able to be legally employed, pay taxes on their property, buy automobile tags, gasoline, food or anything else.) "

Rob in London. (Cont.)
 
" Christians during the Great Tribulation will be like those saints of the Old Dispensation mentioned in the Book of Hebrews. They "were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: and others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: they were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth" (Heb. 11:35-38).

In Revelation 6:9-11 it says, "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held...And white robes were given unto every one of them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow-servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." In the next chapter the apostle John saw not just Jews but "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes...And one of the elders [around the throne] answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of [the] great tribulation" (7:9, 13-14).

Pre-tribulationists argue that the word "church" is not even mentioned after Revelation chapter 3. That is true (except that "churches" is mentioned in 22:16), but the "saints" are referred to more than a dozen times after chapter 3. And Jesus said, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (Mt. 24:21-22).

Persecution & Martyrdom---The N. T. Norm

Persecution and martyrdom is, in fact, the New Testament norm. Jesus said to His disciples, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you...The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you..." (Jn. 15:19-20). Peter wrote, "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps" (1 Pet. 2:21). And Paul wrote, "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution" (2 Tim. 3:12).

According to Church history all the Apostles suffered martyrdom except John who was banished to the Isle of Patmos. The apostles were thrown into prison time and again during their ministry, and suffered beatings and other persecution (Acts 5:40; 16:23; 2 Cor. 11:25; et al.). Paul was in and out of jail, suffered beatings and was incarcerated, under house-arrest, for two years (Acts 28:30) before his martyrdom. "
 
Here is a list of some of INDECT'S reported partner groups:


A list of Indect’s partner groups includes:

AGH Univeristy of Science and Technology (Poland) - Project Coordinator http://www.agh.edu.pl/en

Gdansk University of Technology (Poland) http://www.pg.gda.pl

InnoTec DATA G.m.b.H. & Co. KG (Germany) http://www.innotec-data.de

Grenoble INP (France) http://www.grenoble-inp.fr

MSWIA - General Headquarters of Police (Poland) http://www.policja.pl/

Moviquity (Spain) http://www.moviquity.com/webingles/index.htm

PSI Transcom GmbH (Germany) http://www.psi.de/

Police Service of Northern Ireland (United Kingdom) http://www.psni.police.uk/

Poznan University of Technology (Poland) http://www.put.poznan.pl
Universidad Carlos III de Madrid (Spain) http://www.uc3m.es

Technical University of Sofia (Bulgaria) http://www.tu-sofia.bg

University of Wuppertal (Germany) http://www.uni-wuppertal.de

University of York (Great Britain) http://www.york.ac.uk

Technical University of Ostrava (Czech Republic) http://www.vsb.cz

Technical University of Kosice (Slovakia) http://www.tuke.sk/tuke?

set_language=en&cl=en

X-Art Pro Division G.m.b.H. (Austria) http://www.x-art.at

Fachhochschule Technikum Wien (Austria) http://www.technikum-wien.at


http://rawstory.com/08/
news/2009/09/20/project-
indect-an-ai-to-police-all-of-europe/
 
" We are not experiencing persecution in America, not because Satan has changed his strategy, but because the saints have changed theirs. Most Christians in this country have not been endued with power from On High and are not proclaiming a scriptural evangelistic message which includes remission of sins and repentance (Lk. 13:3-5; 24:47; Mk. 1:15; 6:12; Acts 3:19; 17:30; 26:19-20; 2 Pet. 3:9).

Most evangelistic messages are watered-down, easy-believism, half-truths that omit the need for repentance for salvation. (Look at the Gospel tracts in the tract rack at bookstores and in your church building, or listen to your "pastor" preach an evangelistic message or give "an invitation" to see if you can even find or hear the word "repent" or "repentance" mentioned.

Some church leaders teach that believing in an imminent pre-trib rapture will influence Christians to live holy lives. But the Scriptures teach, referring to the heavens and earth being destroyed by fire, "Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?...Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless" (2 Pet. 3:11-14).

There has never been a time when so many Christians believed in an imminent pre-trib rapture and yet the twentieth-century church in America can be characterized by almost anything but holiness. (With all the filth of the television programs and cheap output of the press brought into our homes, divorce, worldly dress and sports activities, ad nauseam.) Most Christians in America live and look too much like worldlings; there is no contrast, therefore in many cases there is no conviction brought about by the Holy Spirit in the lives of the unsaved. "

Rob in London. (Cont.)
 
" Paul said, "...We glory in tribulations (thlipsis) also: knowing that tribulation (thlipsis) worketh patience" (Rom. 5:3). This is the same Greek word used in Revelation when John saw a great multitude in white robes and one of the elders around the throne said, "These are they which came out of [the] great tribulation (thlipsis)..." (7:9, 13-14). The Greek noun thlipsis was also used in Acts 11:19 concerning the persecution of the Church at the time of Stephen's martyrdom and is rendered "persecution."

"In the world ye shall have tribulation" (John 16:33). "We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 4:22). "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you...for my sake...Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you" (Mt. 5:10-12).

Tribulation and persecution is not the wrath of God. Again, persecution and martyrdom is the New Testament norm. The wrath of God that Christians will be kept from is the wrath of the last day and, of course, the wrath of the Lake of Fire. Those who have been saved by Jesus have already been delivered from the eternal Lake of Fire which is the wrath to come. Paul wrote, "...Jesus...delivered us [past tense] from the wrath to come" (1 Thess. 1:10).

God Takes His People Through Tribulation

Even a casual reading of the Scriptures will reveal that God takes His people through tribulation rather than delivering them from it. Beginning with Noah and his family who were kept safe in the ark which was a type of Christ---they went right through the middle of the flood with torrential rains coming down from above and all the waters from below: "...All the fountains of the great deep [were] broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened" (Gen. 7:11).

Another well-known example is the three Hebrews who were not delivered from going through the fiery furnace which was heated seven times hotter than usual. Indeed they went right through the middle of that persecution and the Lord went through it with them. "

Yet another example of God sending His saints through tribulation rather than keeping them from it, is Daniel being thrown into the den of lions. He went right through the middle of that persecution, but God sent an angel to close the mouths of the lions. That great saint brought glory to God in that tribulation.

Like the Old Testament saints listed among the heroes of faith in Hebrews 11 and all the Apostles who were martyred except John who suffered the persecution of Patmos, God sometimes lets His saints suffer and die for His glory.

Beloved, let no man deceive you. The saints will go through the tribulation depicted in the Revelation. The Antichrist will be given power "to make war with the saints, and to overcome them" (Rev. 13:7). The prophet Daniel wrote concerning the Antichrist, "He will speak against the Most High and oppress His saints...The saints will be handed over to him [the Antichrist] for [three and a half years]...He [the Antichrist] will destroy the mighty men and the holy people" (Dan. 7:25, 8:24). Christians who are compromisers before the Great Tribulation are not going to be overcomers through it. "

Rob in London.
 
Palestinians, allies reopen Gaza war crimes debate

GENEVA – The U.N. Human Rights Council will reopen the debate about alleged war crimes in Gaza later this week after Palestinians succeeded in gathering enough support to call a special meeting, officials said Tuesday.

The debate will start Thursday, a day after the U.N. Security Council in New York discusses the Goldstone report, which accuses Israeli forces and Palestinian militants of war crimes and possible crimes against humanity during their Dec. 27-Jan. 18 war.

Israel has rejected the report, claiming the investigators led by former South African judge Richard Goldstone were biased against the Jewish state and misled by Palestinian propaganda.

U.N. officials say 18 of the council's 47 members signed a motion calling for the debate. The backers are: Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bolivia, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Gabon, Indonesia, Jordan, Mauritius, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Senegal.

Ibrahim Khraishi, the Palestinian Authority's U.N. ambassador in Geneva, said the two-day debate would examine the report as well as recent incidents of violence in Jerusalem.

It will be the sixth time that Israel has been the subject of a special session by the Geneva-based council. Each previous session has resulted in a resolution critical of Israel.

"We'll wait to take a stance on the debate itself once it begins," Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said. "We still think that this report is very dangerous and is disconnected from reality. This report was based almost exclusively on Hamas propaganda."

The 575-page report was based on about 180 interviews and 10,000 pages of documents. It accused Israel of applying disproportionate force, targeting civilians, destroying civilian infrastructure and using human shields in its offensive to stop militant rocket fire.

The report also criticized Gaza militants including Hamas for targeting civilians and trying to spread terror through rocket attacks.

Thirteen Israelis and almost 1,400 Palestinians were killed during the conflict.

The decision to call for a special meeting of the council marks a turnaround for the Palestinians. Under heavy U.S. pressure, Palestinian diplomats two weeks ago had asked for debate on the report to be delayed until March, resulting in protests at home.

Despite angry Israeli reaction and U.S. criticism, the Goldstone report has been widely praised by human rights groups such as Amnesty International and supported by countries in Europe and elsewhere.

The U.N. Security Council should require both Israeli and Palestinian authorities to prove they are carrying out independent, impartial investigations into the alleged war crimes, the report recommends. If they fail to do so within six months, the U.N. should refer the matter to prosecutors at the International Criminal Court in The Hague, it suggests.

http://tinyurl.com/yzpjjxm
 
Please see my further comments on the Solana's Riding High comments board, thank you.

http://www.bethelministries.com/pretrib.htm

http://shalach.org/Rapture/
does_2_thessalonians_reveal_the.htm

God bless you all,
Rob in London.
 
Hi Rob,
age old discussion -
I am sure there are many who either visit here or post here who may agree - or disagree.
We could all sight a number of different articles and web sights to bolster or deny the claims.

Here is the answer I give to some -
Pray for pre - hope for mid - plan for post - in all you do trust in the Lord God Almighty to bring you through it.

I go with pre-wrath myself -
Time will let each of us know what is exactly correct - what is not.
Either way, I trust in the shed Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work upon the cross.

DouginMI
 
For those unaware Shimano is a company that makes fishing tackle.
This does not bode well, it looks as though international regulation of water ways is coming to fruition.

Feds to 60 Million American Anglers: We don't need you

IRVINE, Calif. USA – October 5, 2009 – A recently published administration document outlines a structure that could result in closures of sport fishing in salt and freshwater areas across America. The White House created an Interagency Oceans Policy Task Force in June and gave them only 90 days to develop a comprehensive federal policy for all U.S. coastal, ocean and Great Lakes waters. Under the guise of ‘protecting’ these areas, the current second phase of the Task Force direction is to develop zoning which may permanently close vast areas of fishing waters nationwide. This is to be completed by December 9, 2009.

Dave Pfeiffer, President of Shimano American Corporation explained, “In spite of extensive submissions from the recreational fishing community to the Task Force in person and in writing, they failed to include any mention of the over one million jobs or the 6o million anglers which may be affected by the new policies coast to coast. Input from the environmental groups who want to put us off the water was adopted into the report verbatim – the key points we submitted as an industry were ignored.”

Recreational fishing generates a $125 billion annual economy in the United States and supports jobs in every state according to government figures. Through the Sport Fish Restoration program, anglers have provided more than $5 billion through excise taxes on fishing tackle to fishery conservation and education for decades.

In addition to the economic aspects, anglers lead the nation in volunteer conservation efforts on behalf of improving fish habitat, water quality and related environmental areas. “There was no mention of the fishery conservation efforts which anglers have led for over 50 years in every state – an environmental success story that has no equal in the world”, said Phil Morlock, Director, Environmental Affairs for Shimano. “The Task Force did not make any distinction between the dramatic differences between harmful commercial fishing harvest methods and recreational fishing, even though we spelled it out for them in detail,” added Morlock.

Claiming to be the result of a public consultation process the report states, “Having considered a broad range of public comments, this report reflects the requests and concerns of all interested parties.”

The original White House memo and not surprisingly the Task Force report contains multiple references to developing a national policy where Great Lakes and coastal regions are managed, “consistent with international law, including customary international law as reflected in the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea” - a 300-page treaty the U.S. has never ratified.

“We question what implications there will be for state authority and jurisdiction in the Great Lakes and coastal regions if the U.S. adopts the U.N. Treaty,” said Pfeiffer.

cont.
 
cont.

The report makes it clear that future authority for implementing the policy for coastal and inland waters will fall under White House jurisdiction with a new National Ocean Council comprised of over 20 federal agencies at Cabinet Secretary or Deputy Secretary level. No reference to Congressional jurisdiction is indicated.

“This significant change in U.S. policy direction is the result of a 90-day fire drill process as ordered by the President that, not surprisingly, lacks balance, clarity and quality in the end product,” said Morlock. “People who simply want to take their kids fishing on public waters deserve better from their government,” he added.

Shimano is joining with other members of the recreational fishing industry to urge anglers to contact their members of Congress and the administration to request this process be required to adopt the economic, conservation and social contributions of recreational fishing as key elements of the policy. It is critical that we ensure Congressional oversight and state jurisdiction and management continues.

http://tinyurl.com/yguoy8w
 
Here is an interesting British video having to do with Project INDECT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=2EtsJrA_BOU&feature=fvw
_______________________________

By the way, does anyone remember the furor created over another global surveillance system that was given the now-obsolete codename "ECHELON???"

Read on.....

ECHELON

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
/Echelon_(signals_intelligence)
_______________________________

A British journalist, Duncan Campbell voiced objections to alleged U.S. exploitation of ECHELON......

INSIDE ECHELON: The history, structure and function of the global surveillance system known as Echelon

Duncan Campbell

7/25/2000

http://echelononline.free.fr/
documents/dc/inside_echelon.htm
_________________________________

Apparently the European Parliament wasn't too happy over the thought of ECHELON surveillance being applied to them!!!

They called it the "Anglo-American spying network."

So typical of socialist elites who are ordinarily not inclined to live according to the rules that they seek to impose on everyone else.

ECHELON FUROR ENDS IN WHIMPER

http://www.wired.com/politics/
law/news/2001/07/44984
____________________________

Too bad ECHELON didn't prevent 9/11!

THE ECHELON TRAIL: An Illegal Vision
http://www.surveillance-
and-society.org/Articles3(2)/echelon.pdf
__________________________________

Don't get me wrong. I don't like ECHELON any more than I like INDECT.

But I tend to dislike hypocrisy even more! Especially EU hypocrisy!

Interestingly INDECT is being dubbed "The EU's 'ECHELON' crime predictor!!!"

http://tinyurl.com/yla3w4y
_________________________________

It is also being called "ECHELON ON STEROIDS."

This is Echelon on steroids, a new version of the decades old NSA-run program that has already been spying on citizens for years, updated and expanded for the technological applications of the early 21st century. In 1999, the Australian government admitted that they were part of an NSA-led global intercept and surveillance grid in alliance with the US and Britain that could listen to “every international telephone call, fax, e-mail, or radio transmission,” on the planet. Project Indect is merely a new incarnation of the same beast surveillance system...read more...

http://mikephilbin.blogspot.
com/2009/09/project-indect-
total-eu-surveillance.html
 
Interesting speculation on why Obama's background is kept secretive.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=112720
http://tinyurl.com/yk962w2

Dorothy
 
For those who wish to deny that scripture teaches a pre-trib rapture view- I have done the study and I believe that there is scriptural evidence that supports a pre-tribulation rapture. Albeit I do not believe the traditional interpretation but a revised view is indeed scriptural and in fact is supported by Paul and Peter and is clearly supported by the Revelation. The idea that it is a recent invention is simply not true, you can find all kinds of evidence for a pre-trib rapture being taught in the early church just google it and you will find info pertaining to early church father's belief in it.

RT
 
From the World Net Daily story:

Joan Swirsky writes that Douglas Hagmann, in an interview with Dr. Laurie Roth, revealed, "The reason for the media blackout about [Obama's] birth-certificate issue was nothing less than organized Mafia-like dire threats to members of the media, issued not only from the heads of major TV and radio stations, but also from Federal Communication Commission officials. According to Hagmann and [his investigative partner] Judi McCleod, who conducted a nine-month investigation and documented their findings scrupulously," threats were made to fire major talk-show hosts if they mentioned Obama's birth certificate, threats were made by FCC officials to yank broadcasting licenses, and memos were circulated by corporate TV headquarters to all on-air employees advising them not to mention the birth-certificate issue, his lawyer's license or his college records. ("Who is behind quashing the birth-certificate issue?"; Aug. 26, 2009; RenewAmerica.com)

According to Swirsky, during the interview Hagmann and McCleod alluded to e-mails and other evidence in their possession – copies of which, they said, were secreted in several locations.

Dorothy
 
"Hi Rob,
age old discussion -
I am sure there are many who either visit here or post here who may agree - or disagree.
We could all sight a number of different articles and web sights to bolster or deny the claims.

Here is the answer I give to some -
Pray for pre - hope for mid - plan for post - in all you do trust in the Lord God Almighty to bring you through it.

I go with pre-wrath myself -
Time will let each of us know what is exactly correct - what is not.
Either way, I trust in the shed Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work upon the cross.

DouginMI"

Dear Doug,

I understand you reason here is to be a peacemaker and God bless you for that.

I think as Christians we need to get past our wishes and desires and try not to lean on our own understanding, yet use reason, and rely on what the Holy Scriptures say in their contextual entirety, and in the spirit of Love which is of the Truth we hold dear. We Christians in the West have become far too comfortable with the World and what it has to offer, far too comfortable with material things and self. That is also why we have ended up with the wretched Governments we have, many of us have lost our saltiness, the very thing which is an affront to the world.

Can you please tell me any website that refutes the point that there was no mention of a pre-tribulation rapture prior to 1830, when a fifteen-year-old girl named Margaret MacDonald in the town of Port Glasgow, Scotland reportedly had a dream or vision that Christians were raptured just prior to the Great Tribulation? Can you find and provide websites which show researchable evidence that any of the Early Church fathers believed in a pretribulation rapture? Can you show any evidence, with reference to the original Greek texts, that refutes the point that 2 Thessalonians 2:7 was erroneously transliterated in the KJV and other English translations? We should be like the Berean Greeks and search the Scriptures thoroughly, we must also test every spirit in light of this.

I cannot pray for a pretribulation rapture as I believe it is a doctrine of devils, and does not contain the love of God for ALL MEN in it.

Rob in London, Continued below
 
Reply to Doug continued:

What I mean is, that putting aside my own selfish desires and cowardice, I would rather pray that God fills my heart with enough love for Him and my fellow man that I would beg to remain here as long as possible to win souls for Jesus. To cry out to those lost souls, come out of your delusion, do not worship the beast nor his image, do not take the mark, repent!! Repent!!

So, I hope in Christ that during those times my spirit will not faint within me, if I am beheaded or similar mid-tribulation so be it, but I would rather that as unworthy as I am, the Lord would keep me here, standing fast, and holding the traditions which Paul encouraged the Thessalonians to do, preaching the Gospel and pleading with others to turn and repent and be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.

Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

We should obey God rather than men, and have a thirst to serve and love Him with all our heart, understanding (mind), soul, and strength, and we should love our neighbours as ourselves, not just our Christian brothers.


James 2:18-20 (King James Version)

18. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


Matthew 5:44

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

John 15:12-14 (King James Version)

12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

14. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Galatians 4:15-17 (King James Version)

15. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

16. Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

17. They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.


Peace be with you Doug, and all in here. I am genuine in wanting evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine prior to 1830, if you can provide it.

God be with you. Your friend Rob in London.
 
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2361168/posts

For those who do not know who George Soros is and why he is so dangerous.

Dorothy
 
SUNSTEIN: TAKE ORGANS FROM 'HELPLESS PATIENTS'

"President Obama's newly confirmed regulatory czar defended the possibility of removing organs from terminally ill patients without their permission."

"Cass Sunstein also has strongly pushed for the removal of organs from deceased individuals who did not explicitly consent to becoming organ donors."

"...Sunstein posits that:'the state owns the rights to body parts of people who are dead or in certain hopeless conditions, and it can remove their organs without asking anyone's permission.'"


Link To Full Article-
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=112757

Or Here-
http://tinyurl.com/ygp75ms

By His Grace,
-SV
 
" RT said...
For those who wish to deny that scripture teaches a pre-trib rapture view- I have done the study and I believe that there is scriptural evidence that supports a pre-tribulation rapture. Albeit I do not believe the traditional interpretation but a revised view is indeed scriptural and in fact is supported by Paul and Peter and is clearly supported by the Revelation. The idea that it is a recent invention is simply not true, you can find all kinds of evidence for a pre-trib rapture being taught in the early church just google it and you will find info pertaining to early church father's belief in it.

RT

2:31 PM "

P.S. who then are the saints beheaded for their faith and testimony mentioned in,

Revelation 12:11

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

AND Revelation 20

4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Please scrutinise contextually all my previous postings on this matter.

http://biblicaleschatology.org/2009/03/13/did-the-early-church-fathers-teach-a-rapture-or-a-particular-position-of-it/

God bless you, Rob in London.
 
Hi Rob
this a page I like even though I do not think that it could last one week from the rapture. But it makes sens. A lot of scripture.
http://www.redmoonrising.com/RMRbook/contents.htm

http://www.redmoonrising.com/
Frences
 
Soroswatch.com is down. Another blogger suggested these sites for information on Soros.

Don’t forget Soros has been director of CFR (think Trilateral commission and Bildeberg Group) since the mid 1990’s. These are the people behind the NWO.

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/EntityDisplay.php?Entity=SorosG

http://www.muckety.com/George-Soros/4166.muckety
 
http://raptureready.com/rr-pre-trib-rapture.html
 
More on Soros
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/LMC.asp

http://www.sorosmonitor.com/home.aspx

Dorothy
 
Hi Rob,
There are a small mountain or sights on the subject - I do not think it would do either of us any benefit regarding the discussion.
I have looked and rearched it - done at least 2 radio broadcasts in the past on it - (by the way - i appreciate your compliment - if only I had the ability to live up to it)
I totally agree with this "We should obey God rather than men, and have a thirst to serve and love Him with all our heart, understanding (mind), soul, and strength, and we should love our neighbours as ourselves, not just our Christian brothers."
I appreciate your position regarding the subject - and face to face this would be a great discussion between you and I or - a group - whatever.
I am in no way trying to discount anything you have written - I just percieve that there is a pre-wrath rapture - of course others do not.
Again - time will tell, until then - let us remember this -

Revelation 12:11
"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

DouginMI
 
Soros is an evil man - I am wondering out loud if his $ are financing the "private" police forces.

DouginMI
 
Thank you for that Frences, smiles, I am grateful for this link but I must tell you that I believe the words of St. Paul and St. John the Divine over Peter D. Goodgame any day, having looked at his timeline chart on the link, and found it incompatible with Holy Scripture.

"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,

AT THE LAST TRUMP:

for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor. 15:51-52).

"And the SEVENTH angel sounded

[THE SEVENTH AND LAST TRUMPET];

and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever...And the nations were angry, and thy wrath [from which the saints were delivered] is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints" (Rev. 11:15-18). "


God bless you and thank you, Rob in London.
 
Dear Rob from London:

I haven't read all your posts, but I have to agree with much of what you say from what I have gleaned from skimming your material. 2nd Thessalonians, Chapter 2 is extremely specific about a specific teaching as "deception." It says (and I don't have my Bible currently handy):

"Now regarding the coming of our Lord and our gathering together unto Him, let no man deceive you by any means. FOR THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME except the FALLING AWAY [apostasy] come first AND the Man of Perdition is revealed."

The danger in not taking that literally? "This can't be the anti-christ -- I'm still here" --

"This can't be the mark of the beast . . . I was to be in heaven 3 1/2 years before it happened."

Jesus plainly warned that many would FALL AWAY and BETRAY ONE ANOTHER. Could some of those doing that be severely disillusioned people who similarly to children who no longer believe in Santa Claus, now believe the whole thing a lie because the eschatological expectations their teachers created in them didn't happen?

A false dichotomy has been created between dogmatic pre-trib rapture and dominion theology. In my opinion, they are two sides of the same coin. Under the first scenario, we get whisked out before a hint of trouble. Under the second scenario, we increase in power and glory until we take over and we never see a bad day either.

Neither side is prepared in the least for plain prophecies that the Biblical seers of old passed on to us, reserving their pity for us even though they lived through incredibly barbaric times.

EVEN SO, COME QUICKLY LORD JESUS!

Constance
 
(a snipet of a larger article)
..................A Discovery that the Pretribulation Rapture Was Taught in the Early Church ( by Grant Jeffrey)

During the summer of 1994, after more than a decade of searching, I discovered several fascinating manuscripts that contain clear evidence of the teaching of the pre-tribulation rapture in the early church.

Ephraem's Teaching on the Pretribulation Rapture

For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. (On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373)

The early Christian writer and poet, Ephraem the Syrian, (A.D. 306 - 373) was a major theologian of the early Byzantine Eastern Church. He was born near Nisbis, in the Roman province of Syria, near present-day Edessa, Turkey. Ephraem's fascinating teaching on the Antichrist has never been published in English until I wrote FINAL WARNING in 1995. Some scholars suggested that this manuscript was written several centuries later (5th or 6th century) but definitely before the birth of Islam in 622. However William Bousset, one of the greatest scholars on ancient eschatology, concluded in his book The Antichrist Legend that it was written by Ephraem the Syrian before A.D. 373. 1 Andrew R. Anderson wrote in his book Alexander's Gate that he accepted the early date as being valid. 2

This critically important prophecy manuscript from the fourth century of the Church era reveals a very clear statement about the pretribulational return of Christ to take His elect saints home to heaven to escape the coming Tribulation. For additional details read the article Examining an ancient Pre-tribulation Rapture statement on my web site.
 
Dear SV,

Re:"...Sunstein posits that:'the state owns the rights to body parts of people who are dead or in certain hopeless conditions, and it can remove their organs without asking anyone's permission.'"

Sunstein, who is described as "an American legal scholar, particularly in the fields of constitutional law, administrative law, environmental law, and law and behavioral economics," is another radical leftist Chicago crony of Barack Obama who taught at the University of Chicago Law School.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein

While the constitutions of Communist China, the former Soviet Union and Nazi Germany may have declared that the state owns the rights to the body parts of people who are dead or in a so-called "vegetative state" like the late Terry Schiavo, it is nowhere so stated in the Constitution of the United States of America!

The following article by Dr. Ellis Washington is instructive concerning Sunstein's attitude to the Constitution of the United States of America and the possibility that he may attempt to change it by stealth. It is also suggested in this article that Obama may be considering him as a potential United States Supreme Court Justice.

CASS SUNSTEIN: REGULATING AMERICA TO DEATH

http://westernfrontamerica.
com/2009/09/13/cass-sunstein
-regulating-america-death/
___________________________

Also.......

CASS SUNSTEIN'S DESPICABLE IDEAS ON REGULATING THE INTERNET

http://www.americanthinker.com
/blog/2009/07/cass_sunsteins_despicable_
idea.html

If anyone dared to try to remove organs from any one of my loved ones without their permission and while they were still alive, I might wind up in jail, but by the time I got done with the swine, they wouldn't be in any condition to remove anyone else's organs without their permission!
 
No wonder there's plans to try and regulate the web. The Guardian Newspaper (UK) reports the following;

Trafigura: A few tweets and freedom of speech is restored.

The Guardian story announcing that it had been restricted by an existing high court order from reporting certain parliamentary proceedings had been published online for just a matter of minutes before internet users began tearing apart the gag.

Full Guardian report;
http://tinyurl.com/yl492md

~K~
 
Thank you Constance for your supportive comments, I completely agree with you in all of what you've said here and echo your cry, "EVEN SO, COME QUICKLY LORD JESUS!":

"A false dichotomy has been created between dogmatic pre-trib rapture and dominion theology. In my opinion, they are two sides of the same coin. Under the first scenario, we get whisked out before a hint of trouble. Under the second scenario, we increase in power and glory until we take over and we never see a bad day either.

Neither side is prepared in the least for plain prophecies that the Biblical seers of old passed on to us, reserving their pity for us even though they lived through incredibly barbaric times.

EVEN SO, COME QUICKLY LORD JESUS!

Constance

5:19 PM"

It, I pray, is out of love and concern for my fellow Christians and those who still need saving that I have remained so doggedly determined here, and not out of intellectual pride.

I am sorry i've taken up so much space here I pray you understand and forgive my presumption. Thank you for all the hard and very brave work you do here. God bless you my Sister in Christ. I heed your warnings with trust and sincerity.

Rob, In London.
 
In reply to anonymous at 5:46 PM,

this website's information, and many others, firmly refutes what you have said and your interpretation of it.

http://www.tribulationcentral.com/print/guest/pt-mc-deceived.html

An atom of which, I've copied below.

"Dr. Paul Alexander, the leading authority whose book inspired the P-E claim, is portrayed in Jeffrey's book, FINAL WARNING, as "perhaps the most authoritative scholar on the writings of the early Byzantine Church." But this misleading statement, designed to make readers think that Professor Alexander supports the P-E claim, covers up the fact that this world famous scholar sees not even a smidgen of pretrib in the same Medieval writer!

In fact, Alexander writes that the phrase "taken to the Lord" (which has become a bonanza for pretrib history revisionists) means "participate at least in some measure in beatitude." While Jeffrey and Ice do include this "beatitude" phrase, all P-E promoters carefully avoid revealing that the Catholic doctrine of "beatitude," according to the NEW CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, has to do with "the highest acts of virtue that can be performed in this life" - works on earth and not being raptured off earth! (Elsewhere in his sermon P-E repeats the importance of doing "penance," because of "our sins," so that church members will be "sustained" during the tribulation!)"

Revelation 22:17-19 (King James Version)

17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I pray God blesses you and reveals His truth fully to you. Please scrutinise all my previous posts here and on the comments page of " He's Riding High", there's only one last trump brother.

Rob in London.
 
Hey gang.....the large Hadron Collider is in the news again.

Here is the bizarre article published by the Telegraph in the UK:

COULD THE LARGE HADRON COLLIDER BE HELD BACK BY ITS OWN FUTURE?

http://tinyurl.com/ykhhygw

or...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/6318034/Could-the-Large-Hadron-Collider-be-held-back-by-its-own-future.html
______________________________

The following is an illustration of the way in which certain modern scientific theories are a rehash of ancient pagan philosophical speculations.

THE GOD PARTICLE: IF THE UNIVERSE IS THE ANSWER, WHAT IS THE QUESTION?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
The_God_Particle:_If_the_Universe_
Is_the_Answer,_What_Is_the_
Question%3F
_________________________________

The Higgs Boson ( a.k.a. "God Particle") is mentioned on several occasions in the ANGELS AND DEMONS film based on the novel of the same title by Dan Brown who is also the author of THE DA VINCI CODE.

The reason why the Higgs Boson is (blasphemously)called "the God particle" is because it is believed that the Higgs
Boson particle is the particle that bestows mass on all other particles.

Even if it were proven that Higgs Boson does bestow mass on all other particles, it cannot be proven that it bestows BEING on all other particles.

Mass is not the same thing as "being." This alone ought to disqualify Higgs Boson as "the God particle."
 
TONIGHT'S RADIO TIME with Yours Truly

8 p.m. Eastern USA

www.themicroeffect.com

9 p.m. Eastern time
Mary Brewer's program

11 p.m.Eastern time
Dr. Stanley Monteith
 
Dear Doug in Mi,

once again I thank you and admire your gentle nature in making your points. May the Lord continue to bless you mightily.

I've said all I needed to on the subject apart from some things which are being planned now and are pertinent to the time discussed. I shall post these a little later, I've said enough on my position regarding the gathering.

God bless you my brother.

Your brother in Christ,

Rob in London.
 
More on Higgs Boson - a.k.a. "the God Particle."

Understanding the Tangible and the Intangible -06/06/08

There is great debate in the collective mind regarding science, matter, spirit, God or an all pervading intelligence and consciousness.

Soon the two will camps will converge minus the "dogma". Dogma is "am god" backwards by the way. One might say that both religion and science have it backwards.

The real debate (religion aside) is whether the tangible gives rise to the tangible or vice versa and what role conscious, awareness or the observer plays in the actualization of phenomena.

The Higgs Boson a controversial particle believed to bestow mass on all other particles. Which in one context would be the particle that converts the intangible into the tangible. The Higgs Boson (God Particle) is supposedly the key that would explain why particles have mass and the phenomena of solidity, Physicists believe that Higgs particles generate a kind of soupy ether through which other particles move, picking up drag that translates into mass on the macroscopic scale. If the Higgs Boson (God Particle) the cornerstone of 21st-century physics is not there then the standard model of the universe collapses. Since particles do have mass, we know that there must be some function that generates it. There is a good chance that we will find that function, yet at the same time the standard model of the universe will collapse, as we obtain a new understanding, a major shift in an erroneous perception and assumption upon which physics is based.
...read more...

http://godparticle.net/

Apparently there are those who, while willing to embrace all sorts of bazarre "scientific" theories, are unable or unwilling to consider the possibility that there is a God Who created "ex nihilo." ("from nothing")
 
The US Govt. has developed holographic and audio technology that may be used by the NWO to fool Christians, for what ever purpose, through creating a fake rapture. This technology came into being 12 or so years ago, it is frightening to think how they may have progressed since then.

Please see these videos related to 'Project Bluebeam', and research it for yourselves.

Project Bluebeam ( Fake Rapture ) part - I -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq32mCQsQ2U


Project Bluebeam ( Fake Rapture ) part - II -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YAQnTlfNIk&feature=related


project blue beam THE TRUTH - Part One - by ghosthunterJ18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5k0GM8-HXM&feature=related



project blue beam THE TRUTH - Part Two - by ghosthunterJ18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lQc20Mx1Pk&feature=fvw



Blue Beam Project & the One World Religion pt 1/2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxZZiNbMMUQ&feature=PlayList&p=4ED8ABBFD0E50AE1&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1


Blue Beam Project & the One World Religion pt 2/2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R-BAjbgPCQ&feature=PlayList&p=4ED8ABBFD0E50AE1&index=0&playnext=1


Please research this for yourselves. God bless you all. Rob in London.
 
On another note, it would not surprise me, as very little does these days, if the so called star that was reportedly seen around the world by different people (if indeed there was such) was created by Project Bluebeam.

Some of the videos I posted are a little dubious in their construction, but I don't doubt that Project Bluebeam exists.

Rob in London.
 
thank you rob - for your insights - much to think about - I am in agreement with you on this issue but the remark that stands out for me is the observation that we in the west are far too content with the easy way out -or in -as the case may be - that is something I can meditate on in reflection on my own life - thank you...
Melinda
 
This is all very interesting and exciting. However, I note that Matthew 24 states that he will not come again until all ends of the earth have heard the message. I note that there are many countries and locations that dont have any bibles in their language yet or havent seen anyone that speaks their languange to preach to them. I am talking in excess of 100 tribes and countries, wycliffe translators are doing a great job but there seems to be much still to do. What does this then do to your time frame if you are a pre-trib believer like me?
 
Rob I sincerely appreciate your heart in these matters - if the Lord allows - look me up in heaven - :) we can have very long discussions - until then - we all have the work before us to be done - especially gettting the Word out to all -

DouginMI
 
Thanks JD
Thank you Frences
Thank you Rob.
Thank you Doug.
Thank you Constance
Thank you Dorothy
Thank you Susanna
Thank you Rudi
Thank you RT
and all here
I just love a forum that's dealing with hard truths and not bandying politics and pop psychology around.

G. Zorroz is a billionaire creep.

Whether Pre, Mid or Post, it's clearly time for sincere prayer and Bible study.
"Interesting times" is an understatement.
 
For those who have been following the events surrounding the LHC. Despite looking for what they term the "god particle", even in far fetched theories about their failures, they still deny the existence of our Lord.

The Collider, the Particle and a Theory About Fate

More than a year after an explosion of sparks, soot and frigid helium shut it down, the world’s biggest and most expensive physics experiment, known as the Large Hadron Collider, is poised to start up again. In December, if all goes well, protons will start smashing together in an underground racetrack outside Geneva in a search for forces and particles that reigned during the first trillionth of a second of the Big Bang.
Then it will be time to test one of the most bizarre and revolutionary theories in science. I’m not talking about extra dimensions of space-time, dark matter or even black holes that eat the Earth. No, I’m talking about the notion that the troubled collider is being sabotaged by its own future. A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather.Holger Bech Nielsen, of the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, and Masao Ninomiya of the Yukawa Institute for Theoretical Physics in Kyoto, Japan, put this idea forward in a series of papers with titles like “Test of Effect From Future in Large Hadron Collider: a Proposal” and “Search for Future Influence From LHC,” posted on the physics Web site arXiv.org in the last year and a half.

According to the so-called Standard Model that rules almost all physics, the Higgs is responsible for imbuing other elementary particles with mass.

“It must be our prediction that all Higgs producing machines shall have bad luck,” Dr. Nielsen said in an e-mail message. In an unpublished essay, Dr. Nielson said of the theory, “Well, one could even almost say that we have a model for God.” It is their guess, he went on, “that He rather hates Higgs particles, and attempts to avoid them.”

This malign influence from the future, they argue, could explain why the United States Superconducting Supercollider, also designed to find the Higgs, was canceled in 1993 after billions of dollars had already been spent, an event so unlikely that Dr. Nielsen calls it an “anti-miracle.”

You might think that the appearance of this theory is further proof that people have had ample time — perhaps too much time — to think about what will come out of the collider, which has been 15 years and $9 billion in the making.

The collider was built by CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, to accelerate protons to energies of seven trillion electron volts around an 18-mile underground racetrack and then crash them together into primordial fireballs.

For the record, as of the middle of September, CERN engineers hope to begin to collide protons at the so-called injection energy of 450 billion electron volts in December and then ramp up the energy until the protons have 3.5 trillion electron volts of energy apiece and then, after a short Christmas break, real physics can begin.

Maybe.

cont.
 
cont.

Dr. Nielsen and Dr. Ninomiya started laying out their case for doom in the spring of 2008. It was later that fall, of course, after the CERN collider was turned on, that a connection between two magnets vaporized, shutting down the collider for more than a year.

Dr. Nielsen called that “a funny thing that could make us to believe in the theory of ours.”

He agreed that skepticism would be in order. After all, most big science projects, including the Hubble Space Telescope, have gone through a period of seeming jinxed. At CERN, the beat goes on: Last weekend the French police arrested a particle physicist who works on one of the collider experiments, on suspicion of conspiracy with a North African wing of Al Qaeda.

Dr. Nielsen and Dr. Ninomiya have proposed a kind of test: that CERN engage in a game of chance, a “card-drawing” exercise using perhaps a random-number generator, in order to discern bad luck from the future. If the outcome was sufficiently unlikely, say drawing the one spade in a deck with 100 million hearts, the machine would either not run at all, or only at low energies unlikely to find the Higgs.

Sure, it’s crazy, and CERN should not and is not about to mortgage its investment to a coin toss. The theory was greeted on some blogs with comparisons to Harry Potter. But craziness has a fine history in a physics that talks routinely about cats being dead and alive at the same time and about anti-gravity puffing out the universe.

As Niels Bohr, Dr. Nielsen’s late countryman and one of the founders of quantum theory, once told a colleague: “We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct.”

Dr. Nielsen is well-qualified in this tradition. He is known in physics as one of the founders of string theory and a deep and original thinker, “one of those extremely smart people that is willing to chase crazy ideas pretty far,” in the words of Sean Carroll, a Caltech physicist and author of a coming book about time, “From Eternity to Here.”

http://tinyurl.com/yl3mlco

more at link
 
Dear Susanna (6:41PM),
Amen, sister!! We'll be able to chat plenty behind those bars, 'cuz I'll be there right along with you!

I was also reading an article yesterday re: Clinton's
Sec't. of Labor Robert Reich
and his support of Dr. Ezekial Emanuel's "Complete Lives System" that “produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated."

It continues: "In 1996, Emanuel said health care should be rationed for those who are not “participating citizens,” that is to say the old, the infirm, and those suffering from irreversible medical conditions."

The most interesting thing about this particular article I found later in the comments section where a commentor
(Silvanus 1:15PM) made this connection-
"1) Healthcare for ALL without exception (the current politicum) is the THESIS
2) Healthcare for all (1) is to expensive, we must think about that is the ANTITHESIS
==> SYNTHESIS
KILL THE SICK AND OLD".

Very astute assessment, IMO.

Of course, the article comes from PrisonPlanet, so take it for what it's worth. I'm discovering that the extreme arguements of each side could possibly force the synthesis the ptb are seeking if the public doesn't get wise to the actual goal. Thus history repeats itself.

Anyway, here's the link-
http://www.prisonplanet.com/robert-reich-on-health-care-old-people-have-to-die.html

Or here-
http://tinyurl.com/yj5t2l3

By His Grace,
-SV
 
To Anonymous 6:27

What if the gospel had already gone out and what is now happening is a literal hi-jacking of the missionary movement?

I used to believe in the work of Wycliffe Bible Translators. Unfortunately, I now have strong evidence that parts of that organization and its sister one, Summer Institute of Linguistics has been in partnership with even Lucis Trust itself as part of OneWorld.org.

Jay Gary and Dave Bryant have both been major players in the subversion of Evangelical missionarydom.

Cameron Townsend's biography of former President Cardenas of Mexico is most fascinating. Cardenas was a major player in the persecution of Mexican Christians starting in 1926. Fascinatingly, Townsend got into Mexico with the "bonafides" of a letter of recommendation from a famous American anarchist. They were banning the bible in Spanish -- something Townsend from his book appears to have had little trouble with. QUERY: What good does it do to publish a Bible with multitudinous language translations and then suppress it in the language of the masses?

I suspect we are much closer to the wrap of all than people suspect.

Constance
 
Dear Dorothy,
Very interesting article(s) about Soros. Particularly the info about the "Shadow Party".

A few quick excerpts-
"The Shadow Party is the real power driving the Democrat machine. It is a network of radicals dedicated to transforming our constitutional republic into a socialist hive. The leader of these radicals is ... George Soros. He has essentially privatized the Democratic Party, bringing it under his personal control."

"Soros had previously experienced considerable success in effecting "regime change" elsewhere in the world. For instance, he helped fund the 1989 "Velvet Revolution" that brought Vaclav Havel to power in the Czech Republic. And by his own admission, he helped engineer coups in Slovakia, Croatia, Georgia, and Yugoslavia."
"When Soros targets a country for "regime change," he begins by creating a shadow government -- a fully formed government-in-exile, ready to assume power when the opportunity arises. The Shadow Party he has built in America greatly resembles those he has created in other countries prior to instigating a coup."

Thanks for presenting this information!

By His Grace,
-SV
 
After researching Caroline B. Glick's 2007 JWR article "The Road To Serfdom", it presents this info re: Soros-
"Soros is an anti-Zionist Jew with a troubling past. Specifically, by his own admission in interviews with 60 Minutes in 1998 and PBS in 1993, Soros collaborated with the Nazis in seizing Jewish property in Budapest in 1944."
"Author Serge Trifkovic, who is currently researching a biography of Soros tells of a Holocaust survivor in Hungary who claims that the reason Soros was allowed to remain free was 'the boy's special knowledge of the Jewish community and its attempts to protect its property from confiscation.'"
"Since 2003, Soros has donated more than $100 million to radical left wing groups and to the political campaigns of far-left anti-war Democratic candidates in the US. His money has made him one of the most influential forces in the Democratic Party."

Very disturbing man who presents a very clear mission against the preservation of Israel as well as against a free, Republic America.

By His Grace,
-SV
 
SV, thanks for the follow-up. I thought it might get lost in all of the rapture talk. What I respect is that you take information and go further with it. It may not take a community to raise a child, but it does take a community to fight back against those who would take it over.

Dorothy
 
THE MASSIVE ORDNANCE PENETRATOR WILL BE THE LARGEST NON-NUCLEAR BOMB EVER-

"The Pentagon is trying to speed up the deployment of an ultra-large bunker-busting bomb, which would constitute the largest non-nuclear bomb the U.S. has ever used. The Massive Ordnance Penetrator, or MOP, is a 30,000-pound bomb that would dive deeper than any previous bomb, and could be strapped to B-2 or B-52 bombers by July of 2010."
"The MOP is 20 feet long and can penetrate bunkers up to 200 feet before exploding. At 15 tons, the MOP is a third heavier than the previous "mother of all bombs", the GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast bomb, which was only 10.5 tons."
"The MOP also packs a whopping 5,300 lbs of explosives, which is 10 times the amount its predecessor bunker-buster, the BLU-109, carried. Basically, it's massive."

Link Here-
http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-08/pentagon-wants-deploy-largest-non-nuclear-bomb-next-year

Or Here-
http://tinyurl.com/mmjczg
-----------------------------------

And yet another little project in the making:

"RODS FROM GOD"-
Space-launched darts that strike like meteors.

Link to this article-
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/rods-god

Or Here-
http://tinyurl.com/42y75u

Another article on 'Kinetic Bombardment' from Wikipedia states this:
"The weapon would be very hard to defend against. It has a very high closing velocity and a small radar cross-section. Launch is difficult to detect. Any infra-red launch signature occurs in orbit, at no fixed position."

Here's the Wiki Article-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment

Or Here-
http://tinyurl.com/24mh28

Some very disturbing progression in weaponry as of late.

By His Grace,
-SV
 
Dear Dorothy,
Amen to that!
:-)

By His Grace,
-SV
 
Hi JD,

I would just like to share a few more of my thoughts on the so-called "God particle."

From what I have been able to conclude from my research, it would appear that the so-called "Higgs boson" (a.k.a. "God particle") - the smallest uncuttable particle - is being theoretically touted by some as the connecting "link" between the material world and the immaterial spiritual world.

There was a time when atoms were believed to be the smallest "uncuttable particle." It is now known that they are not.

In the following articles, one is reminded of the "divine spark" of gnostic lore. "Higgs Field sounds suspiciously like the so-called "astral light" that Eliphas Levi was so obsessed with.

THE DIVINE PARTICLE

The Gnostics believed humans are divine sparks trapped in the human body. They claimed they possessed the secret of the Divine Spark or particle and how to “perfect” their bodies into light. The Great Perfection, as it is called in Tibet, is the process whereby all the nerves of the body are transmuted into a vortex of energy and the Divine Spark is “beamed” to another locale in space-time.

The Gnostics further believed that the soul was composed of an immaterial and imperishable crystalline substance. It emanated from the highest, finest realm and became entangled in the human body and the spell of Earth.

In The Gospel of Judas Jesus said, ‘Come that I may teach you about secrets no person has ever seen. For there exists a great and boundless realm, whose extend no generation of angels has seen, in which there is a great and invisible spirit. Which no eye of an angel has ever seen, No thought of the heart has ever comprehended, And it was never called by any name.

Are we experiencing the cosmic moment in which this great and boundless realm (the realm of Dark Matter) whose extend no generation of angels has seen, is revealing more of its secrets? Are we about to enter the Burning Bush and experience the great and invisible spirit?

Echoing Peter Higgs, I’m 90% sure we are.
......read more.....

http://www.williamhenry.net/
art_dis-cerning.html
_________________________________


If we take a material object, such as a loaf of bread, and keep cutting it in half, again and again, will we ever arrive at a fundamental building block of matter that cannot be divided further? This question has exercised the minds of scientists and philosophers for thousands of years. In the fifth century BC the Greek philosopher Leucippus and his pupil Democritus used the word atomos (lit. "uncuttable") to designate the smallest individual piece of matter, and proposed that the world consists of nothing but atoms in motion. This early atomic theory differed from later versions in that it included the idea of a human soul made up of a more refined kind of atom distributed throughout the body.......

http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/science/prat-div.htm

cont....
 
cont....


The following article from the New York Post gives a pretty clear explanation of what the "God particle" is, but you will notice that the author doesn't consider the possibility of God creating "ex nihilo" and "giving mass to the massless" which is no less a matter of faith than is the "Big Bang." And even the "Big Bang" could not have occurred without a "Big Banger."

IN SEARCH OF THE "GOD PARTICLE"

http://tinyurl.com/yz9ts3g
_________________________________

In order for a particle to be "uncuttable," it would have to be non-material (i.e. spiritual) because matter is potentially divisible "ad infinitum."

What the scientists seem to be trying to suggest is that the "God-Particle" is somehow non-material.

If so, then what they are talking about isn't a particle since a particle by its very definition would somehow have to be material or a derivative of matter (i.e. matter or energy) in order to be observed and/or measured!!!

If, as the article states, scientists have NEVER YET been able to bring this so-called "God- Particle" into the world of observable things, then I would sure like to know how they came up with the idea in the first place - apart from creating their own reality to conform to their theories.

The fact is that Peter Higgs, for whom Higgs boson (a.k.a. the "God Particle) is named didn't prove the existence of the "God particle". He merely predicted its existence.

Where I come from, predicting that something exists is not the same thing as proving that something exists.

Also....this "connecting link" business as applied to the so-called "God-Particle" goes contrary to the belief that God the Creator is absolutely independent of His creation and seems to lend credibility to the gnostic emanationist theory of creation - a form of Pantheism - rather than to the traditional Judeo-Christian belief in creation "ex nihilo" ("from nothing").

If the "God Particle" were for real, ( and there is no proof that it is ) this would be like saying that the Gnostics and Pantheists were right in their claim that everything in the universe is somehow all or a part of God.

And we, as Christians, know by faith that this is NOT true.
 
The "God Particle" may by sabotaging it's own discovery....

"the hypothesized Higgs boson... might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the [Hadron] collider before it could make one..."

NYT article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/science/space/13lhc.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all

or blog article here:

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2009/10/is-a-time-travelling-higgs-sab.html

If/when such a particle is finally made/found, no doubt it will turn out to be a fractal, proving we are all "god", (or so they will say). Such a "discovery" will make perfect sense to all those who worship the creation in place of the Creator.

Then again, such a discover y just might usher in the last trump.
 
For the first time in years our church will be doing a Vacation Bible School. I had said I would help to the person organizing it several months ago. She came to me last night and was telling me all about it. What our theme was going to be, etc. Honestly, I was really only half listening until she said, "It is by Group".

I said, "Group Publishing?"

She replied that she wasn't for sure but she would assume so. I asked if we had already ordered it. I couldn't remember exactly but I knew that Group publishing was not good.

So last night I did a search of the blog and found that Old Man of the Ski (who I trust as a valued contributer) had said that he had done research on Group Publishing and Thom Schultz (the head of Group). He then said that Group promotes universalism, panentheism and replacement theology. Old Man specifically mentioned that the VBS curriculum (the big on last year) had New Age inflitration in it.

I am going to do what I can to stop our church from using anything from them. I feel that the lady in charge is not knowledgable enough to spot these things.

Please pray for me as I fight this coming into our church.

If you have research that you have done, PLEASE SHARE IT.
 
I'm inserting this here tho' it's off topic, sort of.
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1999/lego.html
This story is about LEGO and its funding of a lab in a university to study kids. This is not new news. If you have not paid attention to the themes of LEGO blocks you need to. LEGO is not spending millions on this to benefit your kids.
 
ON Group Publishing--

If anyone has any further information (especially specifics on the NA infiltration in the VBS materials), I would be very happy to receive it.
 
I guess things have come a long way since the Norma Klein books were found in public libraries. I guess it's "Parents, know what your kid gets from the public library."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=112962 or
http://tinyurl.com/ygpbd6x
 
Dawn,

The 2009 Group Publishing VBS curriculum is called "Crocodile Dock". Would be happy to send you the info.

Email me at oldmanoftheski@gmail.com.
 
Anonymous 10:21 AM,

LEGOS has being compared to the philosophy of Atomism......the key idea behind the search for the so-called "God-particle."

SYNTHETIC REASON AND AESTHETIC ORDER

..... Let us now relate synthetic reason to the distinction between rational order and aesthetic order. (Here rational is used in the analytic sense.)
By abstracting from the particular, rational order is ultimately indifferent to concrete individuals because it generates the rule of complete substitutability. For example, p's and q's can stand for any word in any natural language, just as the one physical atom can take the place of any other atom without changing the whole. Morally this idea of substitution finds its ultimate expression in the interchangeabiliy of the sovereign in Kant’s Kingdom of Ends.

An equivalent uniformity is obtained in the modern bureaucratic state where individuals are leveled and made abstract by social rules and regulations. Even libertarians who criticize the welfare state for these indignities share the same axiom of social atomism with their social utilitarian opponents. The social atom of classical economic theory can take the place of any other economic agent regardless of circumstances.

Aesthetic order, on the other hand, focuses on the concrete individual so much so that there can be no substitution and no interchangeability. This applies to the work of fine art as much as the person of great virtue. This means that something aesthetic is ordered primarily in terms of internal relations, the basic elements being dependent on one another. By contrast physical or social atoms are externally related, independent from their environments. (The dependent relations of paired subatomic particles indicates an organic rather than mechanical model for contemporary physics.) Again Kant serves as the contrast in moral theory: rational autonomy requires independence from the emotions, the body, and the environment. Even though Aristotle is the source for the idea of rational autonomy, this actually applies only to the intellectual virtues and only when he holds that the highest good is pure contemplation. It is important to remember that Aristotle joined reason and the passions in moral virtue and he argued that these virtues are the unique self-creations of practical reason. Any view that ignores the constitutive role of the passions is bound to be numb (anaesthetic) and will fail to do justice to experience.
..read more...

http://tinyurl.com/yzevlqp
________________________________

In terms of rational autonomy, it was C.S. Lewis who wrote that "unless the measuring rod is independent of the thing being measured, there can be no measurement."

Also....it would appear that when equality is confused with identicality by such entities as the social engineers who have instigated such things as radical feminism and the demand that so-called "gay marriage" be legally on a par with traditional heterosexual marriage, the result is a particularly sinister type of liberal "social atomism" (a social "black hole"???) which threatens the very existence of the human race no less than the hypothetical destruction people fear from black holes that might be created by the Large Hadron Collider.

The difference is that the latter species of destruction might take a significantly longer period of time to accomplish.

Don't get me wrong. LEGOS in and of themselves are morally neutral and can be fun and educational in terms of innocent creativity.

But like anything else, LEGOS can also be deployed in the service of more sinister agendas.
 
What to make of Solana naming things "666"? Must be that he likes teasing.
Or it's more "in your face" stuff.
Or making the whole concept of 666 ridiculous.

It sounds like something "The Onion"
would do as a spoof.

Mariel
 
OMOTS: The Vacation Bible stuff produced by the Group does sound like a typical syncretic effort.

I am always debating within myself. Is it better to have such materials to educate children or for them to have NO religious training?

In atheist households in my family, no religious materials are allowed. Not even, say, a "crech" at Christmas time. Therefore the children do not get brainwashed by false religion. They get NO religion instead, and an insistance that God in any form does not exist.

I wonder what God thinks on this subject? In the Bible paganism and syncretism is condemned, but what of NO religion? The Bible seems to assume that every human will have some religion, either the correct one or the non-correct. Not "nothing." Perhaps "nothing" is better than the bad something.

Mariel
 
Dawn,

I don't know very much about VBS, but based on Old Man of the Ski's lead about Crocodile Dock, I found these videos for you.

All I am doing is posting the links.

You and Old Man are in a better position than I am to judge where these videos "wander off the reservation."
_____________________________

"I will not be afraid" from Crocodile Dock VBS 2009 Sing & Play Swamp Stomp Music DVD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJdIn2_pvRk
________________________

CROCODILE DOCK VBS YOU ARE POWERFUL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHPNs4nrtSc&feature=related
_____________________________

Crocodile Dock--Get Down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=i_e1sWkZxa8&feature=related
________________________________

White Plains Baptist Church - Crocodile Dock Sneak Peak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y68_KbGQwvc&feature=related

________________________________

Crocodile Dock VBS Preview Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=153o6j3KmPo&feature=related
_________________________________

Crocodile Dock Promo Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnPOigQ-A_4&feature=related
_________________________________

Graysville Church of God 2009 VBS Crocodile Dock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew4zHoK9vpQ&feature=related
_________________________________

Desert View Bible - Crocodile Dock - VBS 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCvZFxJx3YE&feature=related
__________________________________

VBS Crocodile Dock Jun.15-19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccIv0e9CKoU&feature=related
__________________________________

Crocodile Dock - Parting of the Red Sea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o8DG6T7daQ&feature=related
__________________________________

Crocodile Dock - Swamper Sid & Clutzy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uhsn-zYk1o&feature=related
__________________________________


Lots more videos at the side bar on the right if you want to view them as well.
 
Thanks Susanna!

The VBS that our church is looking at is called "The High Seas Expedition"

The material isn't even available until the first of December. I am just going to assume that it will have similar material.
 
My friend's initial response was, "We can just skip any lessons that have any of that information in it".

My hunch is that it will be sprinkled all through the lessons.

As far as those videos, it looks like lots of praise music and those are interesting choices. I take issue with praise music that says "you" instead of Lord or God. The reason for this is because I think it would be easy to forget about to Whom you are singing to IMHO.
 
Dawn,

The "High Seas" material is similar to "Crocodile Dock" but not identical.

Here are links I was able to find with sneak previews of High Seas Expedition and other related material.


HIGH SEAS EXPEDITION (Official Website)
http://highseas.group.com/
______________________________

INTRODUCING GROUP'S 2010 VACATION BIBLE SCHOOL
http://www.group.com/vbs/
_________________________________

Group’s High Sea Expedition VBS Theme for 2010

http://ministry-to-children.com/groups-high-sea-expedition/

_________________________________

High Seas Expedition

http://www.youtube.com/user/
Just4KidsMinistries#p/a
_________________________________

2010 Sneak Peak High Seas Expedition

http://www.youtube.com/user/
Just4KidsMinistries#p/a/u/0/
FTa9uw0my_Q

________________________________

High Seas Expedition VBS Ultimate Starter Kit

http://tinyurl.com/yfvefbh

see also...

http://tinyurl.com/yhz8dc3

_________________________________

VBS U Networking Event - High Seas Expedition

http://tinyurl.com/ygudtgv
_________________________________


Vacation Bible School 2010 Themes (VBS 2010)

http://www.christianarea.com/vacation-bible-school/VBS-themes-main.asp
_________________________________

THE RAWLINSON ROAD VBS TIMES

http://www.rrbc.org/client
images/37710/vbs/rrbc_vbs_times.pdf
_________________________________

More VBS Programs

http://store.grouppublishing.com
/OA_HTML/gpCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=10623
 
Mariel,

Just my personal opinion, to say an atheist has no religion is flawed at best. One simple way of proving this is to ask them how they believe life began on this planet. Many will tell you life evolved, others will assume a roll of a alien race seeding the planet, BOTH ARE RELIGIONS! Neither can be proven and hence have to be taken on faith by the individual, the very definition of religion. Evolution can be scientificly proven false (hence why after all these years it remains a theory), and the second takes a much larger leap of faith than believing as we do. Let us also not forget that in many ways science itself is a religion. This is why when someone tells me they have no religion and that they are atheist, I counter informing them they do have a religion they simply deny the existence of any deity.
 
Dawn,

Here are some links to Lifetree Cafe founded by Thom Schultz. i hope you find it helpful.

FRANCES COLLINS TALKS TO LIFETREE CAFE

http://biologos.org/resources/francis-collins-talks-to-lifetree-cafe/
________________________________

Old Man of the Ski mentioned Collins (founder of the Biologos Foundation) and Lifetree Cafe on another thread dated Tuesday July 28, 2009 4:48 P.M. entitled

"BARRY IS RESTING COMFORTABLY -- JOHN LOEFFLER WILL GUEST HOST MY RADIO PROGRAM TONIGHT"

http://cumbey.blogspot.com/
2009_07_01_archive.html
_________________________________

Lifetree Cafe channel: Meet Thom and Joani Schultz

http://www.youtube.com/user/
LifetreeCafe#p/a/u/1/0WqgHkDD2ME
_________________________________

LIFETREE CAFE

http://lifetreecafe.com/
_________________________________

CHRISTIAN PUBLISHER CELEBRATES 35 YEARS

http://www.timescall.com/news_story.asp?ID=18333
_________________________________

UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL WITH JOANI SCHULTZ (THOM'S WIFE)

http://www.timescall.com/news_
story.asp?ID=18333
_________________________________

VIDEOS PUBLISHED BY GROUP PUBLISHING

http://www.facebook.com/
video/video.php?v=86943671667
_________________________________

RICK WARREN'S MINISTRY TOOLBOX

http://legacy.pastors.com/RWMT/
article.asp?ID=235&ArtID=8909
_________________________________
 
These sights make for an interesting visit once a day - especially lately.

USGS World Map
http://tinyurl.com/chzss

Volcanic Activity
http://tinyurl.com/yfees5r

Disaster and Pandemic Map
http://tinyurl.com/ywooyn

DouginMI
 
Dear Susanna,
I was researching the Lego/Atomism/Nomadism info, and I came across a person of interest:
Jacques Attali and his "CiviLego" concept. Wiki states that he was born in algeria in 1943 and that he is a French economist, a scholar and also that he was an advisor to President Mitterrand from '81 to '91.

This strange little essay came to my attention and I thought I'd share it- though I share it with a warning 'cuz it has some nasty stuff there.
Here's a small excerpt-
"In the global supermarket of culture, fragmented individuals choose at whim from a bric-a-brac of beliefs and values. People are split into tribes, families into households, ideologies into aphorisms and cultures into clips. This build-it-up, break-it-down civilisation is what writer (and banker -- he's somewhat fragmented himself) Jacques Attali calls CiviLego."

Link Here-
http://imomus.com/thought261200.html
Or Here-
http://tinyurl.com/yl4cez2

Gleaning what I could from a terrible translation of an article coming from letraslibres.com, I'm interpreting the canvas that's being painted by this Attali CiviLego concept as in regards to a new "planetary era", "open global market" which "calls for rules and interventions that can build social cohesion".
Their conclusion translates as a future of "civilization that offers a multitude of options [as a new creed of globalization] from the most diverse cultures."

Link Here-
http://www.letraslibres.com/pdf.php?id=5811
Or Here-
http://tinyurl.com/yj82sex

At any rate, a NA global market concept (translating as a social structure for the purpose of globalization) that seems to be generating interest across the globe.


By His Grace,
-SV
 
I have decided not to get vaccinated for h1n1...I won't need to. I have it. It's not the worst flu I ever have had, but persistent. I'm achy all over, which is the worse part, for me anyway, and I have a deep cough, which comes and go. Fatigue, nausea, chills, I have had those with it so for. I have not been feverish, yet.
 
http://biblefacts.org/history/ephream.html
 
I am confused are all ministries suspect? I looked up the faith statement for Group publishing and it read:

Statement of Faith

What we believe:

We believe the Bible is the inspired, authoritative Word of God.

We believe there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

We believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, in his virgin birth, in his sinless life, in his death on the cross, in his bodily resurrection, in his ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in his personal return.

We believe people receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life through Jesus.

Group’s mission:
We equip churches to help children, youth
and adults grow in their relationship with Jesus.

I see nothing new age about their statement of faith.

My own church uses a similar type of children's ministry for their praise and worship VBS.

I pray that the Lord would give us wisdom and discernment and would make the fruit of our churches clealy good and his fruit or unfruitful and obviously false!
 
Not a big surprise (except that it leaked)

http://tinyurl.com/yfbjjep
 
11:30 Anon--
In the short time I have been researching NAM, Yes all ministries are suspect!! Take a look at group publisihing adult series (Coffee tree or whatever it is) and you will see some wording that is very New Age.

Old man was kind enough to send me his research on the Crocodile VBS. Let me just say, it is definitely there. I also would say if you were to just glance at it (without really reading what it was saying) it can be easily missed.

I can see the seeds of Universalism et al very plainly.

The emergent church is all over this publishing company as well.

Don't forget Matthew 7:21!
 
You might as well find a new name for the country we are living in. It's no longer the United States of America. It might be the Obama Nation or Happyville or United Communities. Don't hope that everything will go back to normal soon.

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2009/10/15/leaked-memo-reveals-the-white-house-has-control-of-your-television-set/ or http://tinyurl.com/yfbjjep

LEAKED NETWORK MEMO REVEALS: Obama Controls Your Television Set
by John Nolte

On September 10th of this year the Entertainment Industry Foundation (EIF) posted a press release informing the world that “from October 19-25, more than 60 network TV shows [will] spotlight the power and personal benefits of service,” and that this “unprecedented block of TV programming is the first wave of a multi-year ‘I Participate’ campaign.” More at the link.

It's all New Age.

Dorothy
 
Two of the New World Order boys are teaming up to get all the sheep to give service to Leviathan. Obama joins Bush in Points of Light scam. (my headline, not theirs)

Obama and elder Bush team up on call to service

By EILEEN SULLIVAN
Associated Press Writer


Obama and elder Bush team up on call to service

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- President Barack Obama, who has called on Americans to perform more community service, is joining former President George H.W. Bush in urging citizens to volunteer.

Bush on Friday was to host a forum on volunteering at Texas A&M University, to be attended by Obama, who initiated a "United We Serve" call to service in June that culminated in a national day of service on the eighth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The forum is affiliated with the Points of Light Institute, an organization that honors people and groups who participate in community service. Bush created the Daily Point of Light Award in 1989 to honor volunteers. The forum will be held at the A&M campus at College Station, Texas, where Bush's presidential library is located. It was expected to draw students, faculty and Points of Light award winners. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, a former president of the university, was planning to attend as well.

As a candidate, Obama promised to make a call to public service a cornerstone of his presidency.

On the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday this year, on Jan. 19, the day before Obama's inauguration, the president-elect, Hollywood stars and thousands of other Americans volunteered across the country.

In April, Obama signed into law the Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act, which tripled the size of the AmeriCorps community service program.

And in late June, when Obama kicked off the call to service program, he and his family worked with other volunteers at Fort McNair in Washington and helped load 15,000 backpacks with books, healthy snacks and toys for children with parents in the armed forces.

George Bush Presidential Library: http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu
 
I have no doubrt that in some cases - some of the individulas searching for "the God particle" are in thier own way - trying to find God - painting all who are involved with a large brush is an incorrect thing to do - with them - or anyone else for that matter.
I hope those persons seeking Him truely find Him in their search.

DouginMI
 
Hi SV,

Thanks for the fascinating links and BRAVO!

Because my specialty happens to be the occult revival in 19th-century France and all the people and events associated with it, I happened to notice this interesting little passage in the first article you linked to.

We're all Des Esseintes now. All good shoppers resemble the hero of Huysmans' novel of aesthetic escapism, A Rebours. Dilettantism is our fate, but we should remember that our escapism has to fit in with our fragmented post-capitalist society. Everything is for sale, including the broken-up fragments of traditional culture. It looks unlikely, though, that we'll be reviving clitorectomy any time soon.......

http://tinyurl.com/yl4cez2

Huysmans was a member of the satanist cult that was taken over by the infamous Abbe Boullan after the death of Eugene Vintras.

Huysman's book "A REBOURS" means "AGAINST NATURE."

Here it is online - together with its own caveat - just in case you care to investigate.

http://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/jkh/rebours.html
______________________________

Huysmans also wrote the creepy book LA BAS which describes a Black Mass.

There was an actual "magical duel" between Abbe Boullan and his associates (which included Huysmans and another satanist, Jules Bois) in Lyons - and the disciples of Eliphas Levi then led by Josephin Peladan, Papus, and Stanislas de Guaita in Paris. While many treated it as a joke, the late Msgr. Leon Cristiani does not discount the possibility that Abbe Boullan was actually savaged by demons in his bok EVIDENCE OF SATAN IN THE MODERN WORLD.

Eliphas Levi was a Communist/Utopian Socialist and along with Flora Tristan was a member of a cult led by Socialist "prophet" Simon Ganneau, who was himself a disciple of Enfantin.

ENFANTIN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
/Barth%C3%A9lemy_Prosper_Enfantin

These people were OBSESSED with androgyny!!!

Eventually, the Paris groups and the Lyons groups were more or less consolidated under the leadership of Jean Bricaud who allegedly managed to acquire a valid but illicit ordination to the Catholic priesthood so that (despite the sacrilege) he could confer the Sacraments on those who had been excommunicated from the Catholic Church for joining Masonic organizations whether "regular" or "irregular."

If you remember back in the earlier days of the Chinese cultural revolution in China, the "Mao suit" was all the rage, and soon we were treated to the spectacle of millions of little gray "LEGOS" running around in Mao's version of "workers' paradise.".

http://search.aol.com/aol/
search?s_it=topsearchbox.search&q=
Mao+suit

There also used to be other "LEGO-like" phrases like "cog in the wheel" to refer to members of totalitarian regimes......the word "cipher" also comes to mind.

And members of the Communist Party/Politbureau in the former Soviet Union were not contemptuously referred to as "apparatchiki" for nothing. LEGOS on steroids comes to mind here!!!

The difference between all the ideological myths of little utopian "LEGO-LANDS" and the God-revealed Biblical Kingdom of Heaven is that unlike "LEGO-LAND" every single inhabitant of the Biblical Kingdom of Heaven is unique. God does not repeat Himself. No two creatures are exactly alike.

Interesting how socialist fascist dictators try to ape God's making man in His own image and likeness by trying to create their own "New Man" which usually wind up as something like carbon copies of themselves.

Think of the fascist symbol.....a bundle of rods bound around an ax.......representing the complete subordination of the individual to the state......

So as you can see, there may very well be more sinister elements to the theory behind the so-called "God particle" than meets the eye.
 
Hi SV,

Thanks for the fascinating links and BRAVO!

Because my specialty happens to be the occult revival in 19th-century France and all the people and events associated with it, I happened to notice this interesting little passage in the first article you linked to.

We're all Des Esseintes now. All good shoppers resemble the hero of Huysmans' novel of aesthetic escapism, A Rebours. Dilettantism is our fate, but we should remember that our escapism has to fit in with our fragmented post-capitalist society. Everything is for sale, including the broken-up fragments of traditional culture. It looks unlikely, though, that we'll be reviving clitorectomy any time soon.......

http://tinyurl.com/yl4cez2

Huysmans was a member of the satanist cult that was taken over by the infamous Abbe Boullan after the death of Eugene Vintras.

Huysman's book "A REBOURS" means "AGAINST NATURE."

Here it is online - together with its own caveat - just in case you care to investigate.

http://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/jkh/rebours.html
______________________________

Huysmans also wrote the creepy book LA BAS which describes a Black Mass.

There was an actual "magical duel" between Abbe Boullan and his associates (which included Huysmans and another satanist, Jules Bois) in Lyons - and the disciples of Eliphas Levi then led by Josephin Peladan, Papus, and Stanislas de Guaita in Paris. While many treated it as a joke, the late Msgr. Leon Cristiani does not discount the possibility that Abbe Boullan was actually savaged by demons in his bok EVIDENCE OF SATAN IN THE MODERN WORLD.

Eliphas Levi was a Communist/Utopian Socialist and along with Flora Tristan was a member of a cult led by Socialist "prophet" Simon Ganneau, who was himself a disciple of Enfantin.

ENFANTIN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
/Barth%C3%A9lemy_Prosper_Enfantin

These people were OBSESSED with androgyny!!!

Eventually, the Paris groups and the Lyons groups were more or less consolidated under the leadership of Jean Bricaud who allegedly managed to acquire a valid but illicit ordination to the Catholic priesthood so that (despite the sacrilege) he could confer the Sacraments on those who had been excommunicated from the Catholic Church for joining Masonic organizations whether "regular" or "irregular."

If you remember back in the earlier days of the Chinese cultural revolution in China, the "Mao suit" was all the rage, and soon we were treated to the spectacle of millions of little gray "LEGOS" running around in Mao's version of "workers' paradise.".

http://search.aol.com/aol/
search?s_it=topsearchbox.search&q=
Mao+suit

There also used to be other "LEGO-like" phrases like "cog in the wheel" to refer to members of totalitarian regimes......the word "cipher" also comes to mind.

And members of the Communist Party/Politbureau in the former Soviet Union were not contemptuously referred to as "apparatchiki" for nothing. LEGOS on steroids comes to mind here!!!

The difference between all the ideological myths of little utopian "LEGO-LANDS" and the God-revealed Biblical Kingdom of Heaven is that unlike "LEGO-LAND" every single inhabitant of the Biblical Kingdom of Heaven is unique. God does not repeat Himself. No two creatures are exactly alike.

Interesting how socialist fascist dictators try to ape God's making man in His own image and likeness by trying to create their own "New Man" which usually wind up as something like carbon copies of themselves.

Think of the fascist symbol.....a bundle of rods bound around an ax.......representing the complete subordination of the individual to the state......

So as you can see, there may very well be more sinister elements to the theory behind the so-called "God particle" than meets the eye.
 
P.S. Sorry. I have no idea how my reply got posted twice. I know I only hit the "publish" button once.
 
P.P.S. Sorry again. I meant to sign my comment. :-)
 
DouginMI,

I can't see where anyone is painting anyone with any brush. At least this was not my intention.

No doubt many who are involved with trying to find the "God particle" are sincerely trying to find God.

That may even be true with some New Agers.

In fact, C.S. Lewis once said that men can sometimes do very bad things before they have actually become very bad men.

My point was to show where the theories behind the "God particle" could conflict with God as revealed in the Bible.
 
JD, I guess you are right. Certainly evolution is not provable, that is,
macroevolution. Microevolution is evident.

Because I see so much kerfluff and Krapola coming out of religions, I tend to have sympathy for my son's point of view, although I don't share it. I know my Creator liveth.

I think he and his children may be more likely to come to a true perception of God than children who go to our various churches here in town. But I have to trust in God that they will "get there" on time.

I have given up this issue to God.

Mariel
 
Dear Susanna,
Exceptionally fascinating information!
I have to admit that the 'reviving of clitorectomy' comment from the essay did not click with me as to its intended meaning until you expounded the context. Thanks!

I can also appreciate DouginMI's perspective in regards to the searchers of the "god particle". There has been testimony from several scientists through the years who set out on the quest to prove there is no God (or Jesus Christ), yet instead becoming believers in God, the Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ as a result of their search. So, I've no doubt in the power of the Holy Spirit to convict the hearts of men.

I think in the case of the quest to find this "god particle", however, we find that the underlying purpose behind it is rebellion against the Creator- similar to the rebellion that occured at the erecting of the Tower of Babel.
The very image of Shiva at the entrance of Cern shouts loudly to the world the general philosophy and purpose of the creators of the L.H.C., imo.

By His Grace,
-SV
 
Susanna,
Thanks for sharing your information, fascinating.
 
NOTH CAROLINA CHURCH PLANS HALLOWEEN BIBLE BURNING-

A pastor of a church in Canton, NC says he and his congregation will be burning "satanic" Bible versions- meaning all versions of the Bible with the exception of the King James Version which he is convinced is the only true version of the Word of God.
A statement towards the end of the Telegraph article:
"The book-burning is hoped to be a social event, with a barbecue laid on for attendees. It is not clear whether the meat will be grilled over the heat of burning Gospels."

Link Here-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6346662/North-Carolina-church-plans-Halloween-Bible-burning.html

Or Here-
http://tinyurl.com/yfnpqc2

**There are so many filthy books that true ministers of the Gospel could be burning (try starting with the Harry Potter Sunday School curriculum, etc...) but these misguided leaders waste valuable ministerial time and resources for such a ridiculous cause. Maddening!**

By His Grace,
-SV
 
Dear SV,

I am so very happy that the information I shared seems to have clarified certain points for you regarding "social atomism". :-)

Here is something else for you to consider. The late Mortimer J. Adler referred to much that is in these totalitarian ideologies as "Angelistic Fallacies"......especially "Angelistic politics."

ADLAR ON ANGELS
http://www.thegreatideas.org/apd-ange.html

Here is another interesting passage from an article that mentions Jacques Attali in the context of his "Civilego utopia."

Don't be intimidated by the French title. The article itself is "en Anglais." LOL

Jacques Attali, the intellectual French author of the “XXI century Dictionary”, doesn't support the idea of the end of the civilizations in a widespread chaos or in the coalition of all them in a western model. For him, the civilization2 will remain as a treasure to preserve, and all Civilizations will be dissolved, little by little, in a gigantic “puzzle of values”.

“The globalization of the markets and consumption models won't universalize nor the cultures, nor the languages, nor the civilizations. We are not following the generalization of the western model, itself in perpetual evolution, we are not even developing in the sense of a mixed civilization, but in the one based in fragments of civilizations: the civiLego.”

This idea is based on the vision that we will deepen the knowledge of the plurality of ideologies, of philosophies, of political and cultural systems, etc., and the diversity of other civilizations, building ourselves and our own system of values, creating our own “puzzle of civilizations”.

Mario Vargas Llosa bases his theory on the idea of a new world order culture. This author has a more optimistic thesis concerning Globalization. He states that knowledge and beliefs will be mingled, offering a perspective and an order that will allow us to understand each other and the world in a certain way.

“The modernization will erase many forms of traditional life, but, at the same time, it will bring opportunities and it will constitute a step in front for the society as a whole.”

That is to say, although globalization cannot allow a continuity that provides the maintenance of shared values, it can, on the other hand, be the source of new values that should be aims and not means to achieve economical results.

In Francis Fukuyama's opinion (2000), there will be a construction of some kind of social capital, at the same time that several different cultures will remain.


cont........
 
cont....

4. Emergent paradigms

Analyzing the transformation process that has marked our societies, the concepts, the theoretical references and the traditional analytic frames are more and more questioned, and pressured by a growing demand of a new ethical order, with different philosophical and epistemological references.

The development model based on the quantitative paradigm of economic growth, that served the industrial society, seems to be surpassed essentially by a concept of development based on a human process.

The last reports on the Human Development published by the United Nations, highlighted as indicators of economic growth the peoples’ quality of life, the education level, the environment, the work conditions, the leisure, the exercise of citizenship, etc.

The alert for the worsening of the environmental problems, points out the rising of a wider conscience for the need for definition of a development concept that enlightens the human action in balance with nature, in a way that everybody can build actively its identity without placing in risk neither the natural resources, nor the human existence itself. This perspective gives to the process of development a new dimension of long-term sustainability.

It was in June of 1992, in Rio de Janeiro3 that was defined the notion of Sustainable Development, as a group of values shared to the planetary scale about everybody’s responsibility to the environment.


http://cueep161.univ-lille1.fr/mcx/mcx/3a/3a-Neves.doc
_______________________________

What comes to mind for me is the notion of impressionist paintings or the zillions of pixels on a computer screen. "High def utopia???"

Here is another interesting article.

JACQUES ATTALI'S NOISE

http://www.notbored.org/attali.html
 
Dear Peacebringer7

Thank you for your kind words and you are more than welcome.

I hope you found the information helpful.
 
DAWN,

The post from Anon 11:40 AM shows the depth of the problem we are up against. I don’t want to take too much space here, but there’s a couple of points need making.

Group Publishing did NOT have a mission statement posted on their website until the end of summer. It was likely put up in response to critiques and questions concerning the 2009 “Crocodile Dock” VBS materials.

Those who lack discernment and/or the time to do the research, could easily miss the shortcomings inherent in Group Publishing's materials. But their own mission statement gives us a clue about their universalist views:

"We believe people receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life through Jesus."

Period. That’s the end of it. This is consistent with Group’s VBS materials which teach that since Jesus died on the cross for ALL people, ALL PEOPLE are saved. Repentance (acknowledging and turning away from one’s own sin) and obedience (following Christ) are irrelevant.

In the Crocodile Dock VBS material, Group Publishing misquotes and misuses the OT book of Exodus to promote REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY. God’s specific promises, made to specific individuals in specific situations, and which specifically apply to the chosen nation of Israel, are transferred to the children attending the VBS.

AS ABOVE SO BELOW.

The definition of panenthiesm is the belief that GOD IS IN ALL THINGS. The Crocodile Dock curriculum instructs leaders to teach children to train their eyes to see God everywhere. These are called, “GOD SIGHTINGS”.

The curriculum teaches children that, “God is always beside us, caring for us, watching over us, and providing all we need in every situation.” In each of the daily lesson plans, God is represented as nothing more than a cosmic candy man, the protector of children, the giver of gifts, etc. God is all around us, all the time, everywhere we look, watching out for us, in the natural world as well as in the supernatural world. As above, so below.

The tacit omission of any mention of the fall of man, our adversary the devil, or the role of prophetic scripture in the vast bulk of Group Publishing’s materials, is not just an oversight. I will admit that there is a fair amount of spiritual truth sprinkled in here and there in some of the material, but not enough to mask the real lesson plan. We just need to train our eyes to see.

P.S. Group Publishing’s “emergent” offshoot is called “Lifetree Café”.
 
Dear Susanna,
"What comes to mind for me is the notion of impressionist paintings or the zillions of pixels on a computer screen. 'High def utopia???'"

Very astute comment!

A NY Times article from 1987 covers a little bit about Attali's background and early influences when discussing his book 'A Man of Influence':

"Mr. Attali was born 43 years ago in Algeria, where his Jewish father, a wealthy merchant, studied [BARUCH] SPINOZA and instilled ambition in his children. Mr. Attali, who clearly relishes being friendly with the rich and powerful of this world, came to France when he was 12 and began a dazzling climb through the leading French institutions of higher learning, including the Ecole Nationale d'Administration, the most exclusive and clubby of them all." [emphasis mine]

"Mr. Attali says that several aspects of the life of Siegmund Warburg seem consistent and even supportive of his own political ideas, even though Mr. Warburg was no socialist."

"'He was not a conservative,' Mr. Attali said. 'He was mainly fighting for civilization, I would say. He was very demanding of both himself and of others, and I would way that that is a socialist ideal. It is an ideal that I share.'"

Link Here-
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/22/world/book-by-aide-to-mitterrand-causing-a-stir.html

Or Here-
http://tinyurl.com/yhbs4ay
-----------------------------------

Anwers.com presents an extensive look into Attali's stated influence, Baruch Spinoza, and Spinoza's background, philosophies and influences [i.e.: Descartes].

Here's a small excerpt that I think ties in exactly with your deduction of the 'Impressionist paintings or the zillions of pixels' all being "a determined part of a larger system":

" 'Imagine', Spinoza wrote to a correspondent, 'a parasite living in the bloodstream being asked to describe its environment. From its perspective each drop of blood would seem to be separate. But, in truth, the action of each independent drop can be understood only as a determined part of a larger system. And this system, in turn, is a small part of a larger whole.' The ultimate aim of philosophic knowledge is what Spinoza called a 'synoptic intuition' of all reality as a deductive system. And this is why the Ethics begins with a consideration of God as substance. In Spinoza's view the task is not so much to explain God as to understand what it means to be a man."

Link Here-
http://www.answers.com/topic/baruch-spinoza

Or Here-
http://tinyurl.com/ygw4mtw
-----------------------------------

On a side note, this article sheds some more light on the extensive influence that Attali has in the political system of France. He is attributed as mentoring the Presidential candidate of the socialist party, Segolene Royal who ran against Sarkozy.

Link Here-
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0504/p01s04-woeu.htm

Or Here-
http://tinyurl.com/yhkpwlk

By His Grace,
-SV
 
Thank you Dawn and Oldmanoftheski.

Your responses gave me some clarification. Would I be correct in stating that some of the key warning signs that a church or parachurch organization is emergent are:

1. In the message of salvation: all you have to do is trust Jesus and ask him into your heart but REPENTANCE and obedience are not mentioned.
(it does seem that many sermons that I have heard on tv, radio and in church and church belief statements fit #1)

2. Prosperity gospel or prosperity gospel leanings are probably an indicator.

3. Seeing God in all things.

4. Lack of mention of our fallen nature and of Satan or prophecy.

5. AS ABOVE SO BELOW interesting my pastor has a saying that he has the whole congregation repeat: "For everything in the natural there is a supernatural correlation" (I was not sure where he came up with that and did not know whether that was biblical).

It looks like many Christian churches in these times do at least one of those things!

(I do have less discernment and am busy with children and work and appreciate any information I can get in being more discerning about the churches and ministries that I participate in and support.)

Thank you again

Troubled Mom
 
Troubled mom,

Don't be troubled, you got a pretty good handle on it. Just don't overlook the replacement theology part, that's another big red flag- usually goes hand in hand with the minimalization of prophecy.

I'm not sure everything you listed fits neatly into the definition of "emergent" since there's a whole hodge podge of false doctrine out there with "emergent" being just one brand.

The New Testament teaches that salvation is a relationship with God, re-established and made possible through the atoning work of Jesus, the Christ, on the cross. We cannot add or take away anything from that act. Yet we also know that Jesus said there will be many who call him "Lord, lord", and He will say to them, "Depart from me, for I never knew you."

If we really trust Jesus, if we really have fellowship with Christ, then there should be evidence of a contrite spirit born out of repentance and of a changed life born out of love. This is what it means to be "born again", to be a new vessel, a new wine skin, suitable for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If we are not born again, we simply aren't saved.

From my reading of "emergent" literature, they don't talk about "asking Jesus into your heart" so much as making a "realization" that you are "saved". It's more akin to the experience of "enlightenment" than the understanding of "salvation". But even when they use the same words we are used to, they mean something different.

We'll never see all the deceptions inherent in the entire evil "plan", don't need to, don't have to. Stick with Jesus as revealed in the scriptures. These new counterfeits are ALL going to be passing away soon.

Love to you in Christ,

OMOTS
 
Mortimer Adler: Do I remember correctly that he was responsible for THE PAIDEIA PROPOSAL and The Great Books Program (along with Robert Huntchins)(and both were at the University of Chicago) and both were of the leftist, Socialist bent? Our child's brainwashing program at her govt. school was partially based on Adler's philosophies along with Lippman's, of Montclair University. Lippman's PHILOSOPHY FOR CHILDREN which was a very sophisticated form of VALUES CLARIFICATION. JR.GREAT BOOKS, an offshoot of the GREAT BOOKS PROGRAM comes from the GREAT BOOKS FOUNDATION and the reading/discussion program enables facilitators to mess with children's minds. Even the adult discussion groups are led by a facilitator who uses specific questions supplied by the Foundation to manipulate the discussion. I briefly took part in a group to confirm my suspicions. What is also interesting is there is a person who does business supplying home schooling parents and he promotes/sells Adler's materials and Philosophy to unwary parents.
 
Anonymous 5:38 A.M.

Mortimer Adler: Do I remember correctly that he was responsible for THE PAIDEIA PROPOSAL and The Great Books Program (along with Robert Huntchins)(and both were at the University of Chicago) and both were of the leftist, Socialist bent?

At one point, Mortimer J. Adler who was once a self-confessed "pagan" may have been more left-leaning before he converted to Christianity in 1984.

The essence of the Paideia Proposal involves three necessary types of teaching: knowing what, knowing how, and knowing why. Like anything else, this educational plan can be used for good or bad purposes.

In any case, whether or not a person happens to agree or disagree with all or part of what Mortimer Adler had to say, his article on Angels can serve to broaden one's understanding of the particular subject under discussion on the "God particle," "atomism," and especially "social atomism."

In fact, Adler's book, THE ANGELS AND US (1982) was eventually described by Adler as a companion book to his other later book entitled TEN PHILOSOPHICAL MISTAKES - written in 1985 after his conversion to Christianity.

By the way, Adler believed that God "exnihilated" the universe...which is another way of saying that God created "ex nihilo." ("from nothing") He also disagreed with the theory of Monism which is a key New Age belief. More importantly, he explained why.

Here is some information on Adler.

In his 1981 book “How to Think About God”, Adler attempts to demonstrate God as the exnihilator of the cosmos. The steps taken to demonstrate this are as follows:
...read entire article.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortimer_Adler

Another thing...the "liberal education" advocated by Adler is not necessarily synonymous with "left-leaning" religion and/or politics.

It simply refers to an education that includes a broad variety of subjects such as literature, philosophy, art, music, math etc.

So as with any other philosopher educator or popular author, when considering Adler, it is wise to take what you need and leave the rest and avoid throwing the baby out with the bath water.
 
OMOTS,

I just want to thank you for your kind help in understanding these issues of false teaching/ emergent church and the reminder not to live in fear but to stick to Jesus as he is revealed in the scriptures.

"When I am afraid I will put my trust in You." Psalm 56:3


Trusting in Jesus!

Thank you,
TM
 
Rob said, "Reportedly the origin of the pre-trib rapture teaching was with a fifteen-year-old girl named Margaret MacDonald in the town of Port Glasgow, Scotland. Supposedly in 1830 she had a dream or vision that Christians were raptured just prior to the Great Tribulation."

MM's dream was not of a pre-trib rapture. Her vision is available on line and is easily verified. She was most likely post-trib.
 
Pseudo-Ephraem

"Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!" For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord."
 
Jr. Great Books are sold for young children and somewhat older children. The series include standard children's stories and also have stories that are not for children. When our child was having her values clarified the series included The Destructors (The Destructors occurs in the mid-1950s, and is about a boys' gang named the "Wormsley Common Gang", after the place where they live. Trevor, or "T.", the protagonist, devises a plan to destroy a two hundred-year-old house that survived The Blitz. Under T., their new leader, the gang accepts the plan and executes it when the owner of the house, Mr. Thomas (whom the gang call "Old Misery"), is away during a bank holiday weekend. Their plan is to destroy the house from inside, then tear down the remaining infrastructure. Mr. Thomas returns home early, however, and the gang locks him in the outhouse and leader, T., refuses to stop until the destruction job is complete, because even the facade is valuable and could be reused. The final damage to the house is done when a parked lorry pulls away a support pole from the side of the house. Mr. Thomas is released from the outhouse by the aforementioned lorry's driver and is left with the dusty rubble of what once was his home.) It was written by Graham Greene. I suspect the story has more than one message. I note how America has been destroyed from the inside. (continued)
 
cont. A few years after our experience the Great Books Foundation included an Isaac Singer story about Cabalism in a Polish ghetto in the series. I called someone at the Foundation to ask why middle school students need to learn about cabalism. She told me young readers would not even be aware of the cabalism in the story. Liar. The books are sold for children in kindergarten all the way through to the twelfth grade. The worst part is the technique used with them. The Shared Inquiry. It is DIAPRAX. The Facilitator/Teacher is trained by the Foundation, is given the script to use for the discussion. There is a predetermined outcome. Just like the PHILOSOPHY FOR CHILDREN program from Montclair State University (Lippman). The liars tell people this is for teaching CRITICAL THINKING, Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS), That is their newspeak which really means changing children's fixed beliefs a la Benjamin Bloom. It resembles The Lifeboat Game that has been used on so many kids. Our child came home from her government school saying there are no absolutes. She learned it through Shared Inquiry. DIAPRAX.
 
I just revisited the Great Books Foundation website. They are now appealing to home schooling parents and asking for people to VOLUNTEER to bring about groups to use their materials. They want people to form groups of at least three, to raise money to buy the books and train the facilitators, to be liaisons with school employees, to work in the classrooms to facilitate the kids. This goes on all around us, nobody pays attention. Nobody objects. Taxes are spent to enrich the perps. When someone warns about it other people make excuses for it.
 
If any readers understand educationese then read this that I found today at the Great Books site.
Note that it purports to be about sin and morality and explains that this is for readers who know that good and evil are not about black and white. The intro shows this is for Kindergarten through twelfth grade. What God says is never part of these discussions. This is what people decide after dialoguing with the help of a facilitator trained by a foundation and using the supplied questions and thoughts. I sat in a group of adult women, one a pastor's wife and saw with my own eyes how they were led along using a short story in a Great Books offering.

New Title! The Seven Deadly Sins Sampler

Tuesday, November 13, 2007
Book Sheds New Light on the Ancient Concept of Sin

Contact: J. A. Smith, Project Manager
The Great Books Foundation35 East Wacker Dr., Suite 400
Chicago, IL 60601-2105
Ph: 800-222-5870, ext. 241
E-mail: smithj@greatbooks.org

Chicago, IL. Why does it often feel good to do something bad? In a world where we are encouraged to indulge, splurge, live a little,even visit Sin City has the ancient religious concept of sin lost its sway over the moral imagination?

The Seven Deadly Sins Sampler, a new collection of stories published by the Great Books Foundation, allows readers to peer into the hidden recesses of sinful thought and behavior. Without moralizing, the authors in this book, Margaret Atwood, Raymond Carver, Flannery O'Connor, and D. H. Lawrence, to name a few,use fiction to explore our all too human thirst for transgressive pleasure.

For readers who know that good and evil isn't simply a matter of black and white, this collection will provoke lively conversation and sober contemplation. The Seven Deadly Sins Sampler comes with questions for discussion, a foreword by philosopher Al Gini author of The Importance of Being Lazy and Why It's Hard to Be Good and seven original illustrations by award-winning artist Lisa Haney.

Read the table of contents or purchase The Seven Deadly Sins Sampler.
 
FACILITATION
There's a card trick that I've amazed my daughter with a number of times. First I have a look at a given card and place it either on the top or bottom of the deck. Then
I proceed to ask her to name two suits; if one of her choices is my card, I then ask her to name "one of those", If not, I say;" then that just leaves ( the other two ), and I ask her to name "one of those", and on through the numbers using the process of elimination until I've gotten her to name the card I want.
She is mystified over and over and doesn't see that each time i use a different set of criteria to arrive at the desired card. It's really easy once you know the
system. The end result is that the "victim" really feels that they have chosen the card and it always
appears that I'm The Amazing Pop.

That's exactly what these "facilitators" do at town hall meetings and PTA groups these days. You make them feel that they are the ones who've chosen the result, when it was the facilitators' choice all along.
 
Anonymous 7:18 AM

It is one thing to discuss Adler, Great Books, etc. here on a blog among adults. Quite another to impose it on impressionable children in school.

When it comes to what is to be taught to children in school, I think that parents should be the ones to have the last word.

I have not personally read all the Great Books series, but I have no doubt that they include material that is not suitable for children.

This is why you and others like you are to be commended for caring enough to actively get involved in finding out what your children are being taught and for having the moxie to start hollering if the things being taught are found to be contrary to the values you are trying to teach your child at home.
 
Pseudo-Ephraem? Morgan Edwards? Darby? Macdonald? For the real skinny on the real originator of pretrib rapturism by the only researcher who's spent 40 (!) years locating long forgotten and long hidden early "rapture" documents in libraries in Britain etc. that most other scholars were in the dark about, Google the following Google article absolutely free: "Pretrib Rapture Diehards," "Thomas Ice (Bloopers)," "Pretrib Rapture - Hidden Facts," "Pretrib Hypocrisy," "Famous Rapture Watchers - Addendum," "Deceiving and Being Deceived" by D.M., and "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty." But take some tranquilizers first! Sharon
 
And "X-Raying Margaret" on Google explains fully why she was a pretribber of the partial rapturist variety. Even the late Dr. Walvoord who was president of Dallas Seeminary says in his books that partial rapturists (what Margaret was) ARE pretribulationists! PARTial rapturists believe that only PART of the church is raptured and they always refer to the ones left behind after a rapture as the "church" - the unworthy part of the church! It's amazing how few people ever seem to find out what the various terms really mean - they should do their own research!
Sharon
 
Attention prophecy lovers: I just ran smack-dab into another blistering exposure on the web titled "Edward Irving is Unnerving." Actually found it while reading the Nov. 12th segment of OUR DAILY BREAD hosted by Christian celeb Joe Ortiz. This one will help to digest all that stuffing! Bernie
 
In this era of web 2.0, we easily get nice & updated information for research purposes... I'd definitely appreciate the work of the said blog owner... Thanks!
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