Monday, December 29, 2008

The "Emergent Church" also emerges among Catholics

Well, here's a Catholic version of the "Emerging Church" which appears from the tone of the brochure to be networked with the Protestant comrades in apostasy. This is exactly the type of material I was viewing back in 1981 when I first discovered the New Age Movement. The apostates were an ecumenical bunch then and they still are now -- with the benefit of broadband internet this time.

Many, many thanks to Carrie Tomko for posting this information and the link to this brochure on her blogspot. Here is a link to Carrie's site. I recommend you visit it from time to time. Carrie writes from a Catholic perspective and has kept amazing pace with New Age threats with that religion.

I am praying that the incessant squabbling on my forum / comment section will soon cease. Blessed are the peacemakers!

Comments: 1 – 200 of 375 Newer› Newest»
Greetings Constance,

I have happened upon a great resource from Ken Silva. He works full-time providing this vital research in the area of the emergent movement and pastor's a small home church on the eastcoast. His weblog at is a gift to the body of Christ indeed! His work is painstakeningly researched, maticulous, well documented, and very insightful. I make sure that I hit his blog daily to keep informed on the movement of the emergent cult.

Dear Jim:

Glad to hear about Pastor Silva who has been a guest in the past on my radio program. I too have kept up with the "Emergent Church" -- since 1981 -- although now the "emergent blog squabbling" is somewhat detracting from other research and writing time, not to mention my billable hours.

Dear Jim:

A bit shorter than I intended to be. Pastor Silva and many others are doing valuable work on this.

If you scroll down on Carrie's blog there is another article entitled ENNEAGRAM AND KABBALAH which also mentions Father Richard Rohr.

The following is a Dossier of Father Rohr's disturbing teachings, tapes and writings.

Here is the Dossier Table of Contents:

Rohr's Center for Action and Contemplation - the subject of this thread - is reportedly most popular among Catholics promoting the homosexual lifestyle.

How this critter has managed to escape formal excommunication is a certainly mystery to me!
One Voice Movement

The guy at the beginning of the video is one of the contenders for the AC, at least according to some, but who knows.
Constance, there is a strange symbiotic relationship between an Austin, Texas Catholic group and a group that follows the teachings of occultist G. I. Gurdjieff.

The Catholic group is Contemplative Outreach

The Gurdjieffian Church is the Church of Conscious Harmony

There is also within the Catholic Church the World Community for Christian Meditation at whose John Main Seminar Fr. Richard Rohr was a guest speaker in 2005.

This organization also concentrates on meditation as the title of it implies, and is very ecumenical. Richard Rohr has endorsed Rabbi Howard A. Addison's book THE ENNEAGRAM AND KABBALAH: READING YOUR SOUL according to an Amazon review:

Reliable sources within the Church reject the Enneagram as occult lore and not acceptable for a Catholic to become involved with. Sources also reject centering prayer. Our Church is seriously divided in this area as it is in other areas.
I posted this a day or two ago, but it seemed to get buried in the squabbling. Glad to see you highlight it.

It's exactly the kind of thing I've been talking about.

Yes, Ken Silva does do a good job.

Scientists eye unusual swarm of Yellowstone quakes

CHEYENNE, Wyo. (AP) — Yellowstone National Park was jostled by a host of small earthquakes for a third straight day Monday, and scientists watched closely to see whether the more than 250 tremors were a sign of something bigger to come. Swarms of small earthquakes happen frequently in Yellowstone, but it's very unusual for so many earthquakes to happen over several days, said Robert Smith, a professor of geophysics at the University of Utah.

Deepak Chopra, Melissa Ethridge, Muslims and Rick Warren-just one big happy family...

"A star-studded line up of speakers joined the Muslim Public Affairs Council for its 8th annual convention, celebrating 20 years of work for Muslim American political and civic participation. Attended by more than 1,000 people from around the country, the convention headliners included Dr. Rick Warren, musicians Salman Ahmad and Melissa Etheridge alongside Dr. Deepak Chopra, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Richard Schmierer, and authors Juan Cole and Reza Aslan"

also, on quakes-they all seem to be at the same least yesterday, could this be HAARP?


Wow what a coincidence. I was just reading the governments "official" research release on HAARP, and even from the "official story" this seems possible. Between this and the Haldron Collider I don't know which is more dangerous. lol
For a couple of years I've been following stories on so-called "booms" that have been occurring here and there around the world. No one seems to be able to explain them, though there are many guesses. They appear to be underground explosions that sound like sonic booms and turn up for no apparent reason. There was one in Sri Lanka just prior to the tidal wave that caused so much devastation a couple years ago at Christmas time.

Here is an article about another one in the UK:

Interesting newsitem:

Moscow, December 29, Interfax – The Russian Orthodox Church predicts, in case the West finally refuses its Christian heritage, it will face “war of all against all.”
BTW, anyone know where information is on the circle symblom with the cross, star of david, crescent moon, and other world religion symbols?

The reason I ask because while looking for potential sources of website content, ran across the live prayer network site and that symbol is at the bottom of there website.

I tried finding the original information about that but am coming up empty in my attempt.
The symbols are for most major religions of the world. A few are obvious, the one that looks like foreign language is the Budhist symbol which is equivelant to their "halleluia"
Joyce also brought up some good links about THE ENNEAGRAM and Rev Rohr a few threads back, that may have gotten lost in the fracas. I was especially fascinated with this link to the Arica school, which describes itself as a School of KNowledge.

It says:
"The Arica School was founded in 1968 by Oscar Ichazo as a School of Knowledge. This type of school has been in existence since ancient times, from the Greek Schools to the schools of the Hindu, Buddhist and Sufi traditions. As in all schools of knowledge, the Arica School provides a method of enlightenment. What makes the Arica School different from the ancient schools is that it provides a contemporary method of enlightenment, employing biology, psychology and physics in order to clarify human consciousness with modern knowledge, producing freedom and liberation."

The word biology caught my attention, as it reminded me of the link that JOLO directed me to a few threads back.

I'll try to find that link and post again.

Also , I noticed the symbols these groups are using tend to be types of fractals-I don't think that's a coincidence.

Yeah, LOL, the Hadron Collider definitely ties physics into this mess of supposed "Enlightenment".
omOscar Ichazo was a Gurdjieffian. He made his fortune seducing folks into predicting their future and destiny through the enneagram. It was a component of the New Age Movement. It was not the whole picture. Unfortunately, there were some prominent disinformation agents who tried to convince folks that the Enneagram was the New Age picture and that Matthew Fox, Alice Bailey and Helena Petrovna Blavatsky were not significant. The same source told folks that the Bahai's and the Outcome based education(Robert Muller) were NOT New Age. I won't name names, but initials are Mitch Pacwa.

I noticed on Rev. Rohr's website that he has a garden that contains a labyrinth. Please check out the origins of these meditation gardens here:

Also, I wrote about a labyrinth garden that I visited recently and took pictures while there in case anyone is interested in seeing a complex labyrinth. A very disturbing place if you ask me, though I liked it the first time I was there...

Hi YG,

Yes, the labyrinth is a commonly used New Age meditation / altered state device used widely particularly in Catholic and Episcopalian/Anglican circles, although I have observed emergent church use of it as well.


I'm a member of Chapel Hill United Methodist in Battle Creek, not Portage. I'm talking about Battle Creek, Michigan. Apparently, there are other Battle Creeks in the country. We have one of the few industries in Michigan that actually is doing well financially. I have yet to see Kelloggs beg for a bailout.

David in Battle Creek
to Peacebringer7:

I visited the TIPN site. It is clear to me that it is an extremely enticing NEW WORLD RELIGION operation! Beware!

To David in Battle Creek, my fellow Michigander:

If Kellogg were to need and be "bailed out" would that be a SERIAL event? (BAD PUN INTENDED!)

Happy New Year to you!

Hi Constance,

The interesting thing about this labyrinth in Maitland, Florida is that it was built back in the 1930's by an artist/ architect named Jules Andre Smith. It's actually an art center, otherwise I'd never have known about it. The thing that just hit me about this place is that it is a blend of Christianity and pagan symbols together- a 1930's example of an emergent church!
While visiting the Fulfilled Prophecy website, I came across this interesting video on Rick Warren:

David in Battle Creek

It was a bad pun, but funny.

David in B.C.
Hi YG,

This has been going on since 1875. What you saw in the 1930s was no doubt put together by those who had been expecting Jiddhu Krishnamurti to declare as Maitreya the "Christ" of their new world order. After that fell through we had the Great Depression and then World War II. Looks like things may be repeating themselves!

Hi Jolo,

Wondered if you could repost the link that you sent the other night, the one that was a follow-up to the pyramids in Bosnia/Herzegovina?

The link is not working for me.

Constance,Old Man, JD,
Rudi you're so way smart,
Young Grasshopper,
Len I'm still waiting for the
thorough dressing down.
Joyce, Amen, or in Hebrew, Amen
Doug in MI,
David in BattleCreek,
SpanishTown hope your feelin' Irie
and so many more,
I heard the Lewis Carroll was an
opium addict, like Edgar Allen Poe,
and Baudelaire, and Rimbaud
Constance, I was reading Martin Buber
when I was in High School; Tales of
the Hasid. It all makes sense now.
Also welcome to Mr blue buzzwords
Is that a fractal ? Really impressive

Happy New Year ! pop!
The Emergent Church is Communitarian. Associating everything with the New Age is misleading. It is equally misleading to limit the New Age to those aspiring to mysticism, spirituality, or higher consciousness. The New Age is everywhere around us. It is not a cult, it is mainstream society. According to Alice Bailey, the New Age agenda is being advanced by all segments of society, so when you think you have them located here, turn around and they are there too, wherever "there" is. Bailey identified two groups working together toward the objective, one spiritual and one material. She said: "The result of this dualism is the external chaos, the differentiation of the two group ideals into the many human experiments, and the resultant ranging of the entire human family under many banners, which testify to the various viewpoints in the many fields of thought - political, religious, economic, social, educational and philosophical." - The Destiny of Nations: Spiritual Life in the New Age.

The Church of the New Age is unified under the banner of Communitarianism and it is Secular Spiritualism. John Zogby wrote in his book America's Secular Spiritualists: "in the last decade more than 40% of people consistently relate to the American Dream primarily in spiritual terms. I call them "Secular Spiritualists." John Zogby cleverly avoids using the terms New Age or Communitarian, but his Report The Way We'll Be tracks the Transformation of the American Dream, one of the key New Age objectives.

Secular Spiritualism is obvious in the newly formed Communitarian Party. I recently discovered The Consensus Party in Europe. There is more about this in my update on the Dialectic Tetrad. It really goes beyond Communitarianism, but it remains to be seen what it will be called. The New Age calls it the "Transformation", while its the "Transcendent" phase in the dialectic. In any case, when its fully accomplished, all the glitter will come off. I wonder how long it will be before Obama announces his new affiliation with the Communitarian Party?
‘Secular Spiritualism’ as a Way of Life

Its Requirements and its Promises

» Divinity is constantly evolving and growing, as the Universe does. In the fitness of things, Divinity can never be a closed chapter.

» We recognize that all religions are revealed religions and we must respect them and value the sentiments of different people following different religious faith.

» We recognize that human knowledge can be achieved by direct human experience, active-faith, logical reasoning, by intuition and by revelation. Faith and reason are thus complementary and not opposite to each other.

» We recognize that different religious books say the same thing differently. Hence it is futile to go by the particular words used in the religious scriptures. Attempt should always be made to decipher and understand the principles underlying them.

» Divinity has been revealed in bits to humanity, only as much as could be assimilated properly by human understanding at the given time. Therefore there can never by any last word in this aspect. It is the very nature of Divinity to reveal itself in an appropriate manner, when the situation so demands. Thus we should endeavor constantly to grasp the new message of divinity relevant for us at a given time, discuss the same with others on the anvil of reasoning and then accept the same.

» No religious text can contain the whole truth or the last word on divinity. Hence there is no need to stretch interpretations of the words used in them to include new concepts, or the old concepts in the new factual set-up.

» Statements about Divinity should be accepted on their worth, and not because they are quoted from a holy text, however prominent and distinguished .

» “Culture of Skepticism” is very strongly encouraged as a Secular Virtue. It is the duty of every individual to take active independent decision and not to accept/deny interpretation of religious books given by other persons, however eminent.
- Goodwill Workers Conclave
Oscar Ichazo was a Gurdjieffian. He made his fortune seducing folks into predicting their future and destiny through the enneagram.

The Vatican document on the New Age mentions Ichazo's contribution in the glossary given at 7.2:

He was instrumental in bringing the enneagram into the Catholic Church. An article by Mary Jo Anderson tells the story of its infiltration into the Church.

I think Fr. Mitch Pacwa deserves some credit. He was an early and significant contributor to the warnings about the New Age that have been given in the Catholic Church. He may not have gotten everything right, but at least he was on the right track. I respect him for the courage it took to raise those warning flags in what must certainly have been a hostile environment given what we now know of the sexual scandal in the Church.

Incidentally, I believe Lord John Pentland was the founder of the Gurdjieff Society here in America, and that he belongs to the Sinclair family of Rosslyn Chapel fame. He is also known as John Sinclair.
To Bobby Garner:

1) I AM THE LORD, I CHANGE NOT. Malachi 3:6.
2) I am the Lord, that is my name. My glory I will not share with another, neither shall I give my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8.
3) Oh Lord, I know that the way of man is not within himself. It is not in man to direct his steps. Jeremiah 10:23
4) As a lawyer, I know that ambiguities are construed against the maker of a document. I don't know about you, but I have enough faith in my Creator who is also the Author of my sacred scriptures to know he would not leave us an ambiguous and ambivalent document.
5) Quoting John: "In the beginning was the Word and the
Word was God." God equated Himself with his word! Also, I commend to you 1st Corinthians, Chapter 10: One cannot have table from the table of God and the table of devils. Paul told us that what the gentiles (pagans of his day) sacrificed was to devils and that one could not have communion from both tables!

NOW, as regards the Goodwill
Workers Enclave. That, I suspect is LUCIS TRUST which started as LUCIFER PUBLISHING COMPANY. I own three books in my personal library from when they held that name! Speaking of "doctrines of demons " that could not be much clearer.

I sincerely hope you were giving us as "Exhibit A" of what we should avoid. Otherwise, I pray you come out of it before it is too late. Lucifer has much more respect for us who see through him -- not those who fall for his fraudulent spiritual counterfeit schemes!

Constance E. Cumbey

You should talk with Randy England about Mitch Pacwa. He was teamed up with some of my worst "Evangelical enemies" and he reamed us both for coming against Matthew Fox. I suspect with no small amount of justification that Pacwa got in the game to contain our warnings against the New Age Movement.

I had some severe and very nasty experiences with Mitch Pacwa. I have an article about it in the archives of my blogspot which by googling "Pacwa" and "Cumbey" should come up first. Pacwa was involved AS A PRIEST in the New Age Movement here in Detroit with the very group that was a major organizer of Benjamin Creme's 11-4-81 rally. Yet, if you will look at his book which unfairly attacks me (while calling Matthew Fox a genius and saying Teilhard de Chardin 'saved his faith') he attacked my work for bringing folks attention to the political agenda and Theosophical background of the New Age Movement. He came forward to EWTN only after Mother Angelica did a 90 minute special with me on the New Age Movement and then Pacwa teamed up with forces using his clerical collar to see that I was just as blackballed in Catholic circles as his SCP buddies including Tal Brooke were seeing happened to me in Protestant ones.

Bobby Garner:

Interesting posts. I'm not quite sure yet where you are coming from, but stick around -- we'll have some fascinating conversations.

Constance said:
"Lucifer has much more respect for us who see through him -- not those who fall for his fraudulent spiritual counterfeit schemes!"

Frankly I am shocked that your initial response would be to protect me and save me from Lucifer. If there is any doubt about where I'm coming from, you need only visit my website.

I have researched this matter incessantly since 2003, and still was completely surprised to discover that a Communitarian Party went online this month. I would have thought that in the present context of "Change" in both political parties, you might have been astonished as I was at these developments. I hope you weren't disappointed that you didn't find it first. Actually one of Niki's correspondents discovered the Communitarian Party. It got me started to thinking, and I just fitted it into the developing picture.

Awsome research regarding Emergent which was cloaked in New age misticism. I never thought my church was suceptable, it is now a battle and constant watch.
Can someone please remind me when Constance's show is on tonight?

I'm sorry to hear of your experiences with Fr. Pacwa, Constance. When the subject is occultism, it's hard to know who to trust. Disinformation and deception seems to be the rule of the game. Not surprisingly.
Neo-paganism, Marxism, eugenics . . . the three policies to destroy Church, nation and family. The New Age may look like a Hydra, but it is only because Freemasonry has chosen to imitate it's father, the devil, in peddling its shtick while masking its identity. Nail the Masons and you nail the Anti-Church and it's anti-Messiah.

The funny thing is that if people were loyal to the Moral Natural Law, regardless of religion, we would not see the complete rotting of human civilization occurring. The Most High must have a point to make if He is willing to allow evil men to not only conceive such wicked plans, but also to conceive such wicked motivations. We mourn now, but we will have joy that none can diminish once the plan of God is revealed, even though He will allow the Church to lose, if but for a brief time. The only thing is, will we cling to Him in this the Suffering and Passion of the Church in imitation of Our Lord, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?
"My Perspective"

5 p.m Paciific time, 6:00 p.m. Mountain Time, 7:00 p.m. Central time and 8:00 p.m. Eastern time
Atty, I wonder if King Abdullah might broker a deal to allow Temple/sacrifice on the Mount. I still lean towards some sort of calamity ala the Doug Berner proposal that will motivate Israel to reinstate Jewish observance, and the opposition to temporarily allow it. As you say, who knows!
Bobby Garner,

I am going to get acquainted with your work. Until then I will make no presuppositions, other than welcome to my corner of the internet. I had heard of communitarianism years ago and knew there was a problem -- especially when I heard taht Amitai Etzioni had purportedly said that taking computer implants might be beneficial.

I stumbled inadvertently onto Niki Raapana's work and now I will have to check yours as well.

Best wishes,

P.S. Niki will be on air with me in another 1 1/2 hours.
Dear Fred Scharf:

Well said and entirely Scripturally consistent with Daniel chapter 7. We will lose some battles, but the war is ours to win.

Dear Clueless:

My program is tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern time to 9 p.m. That translates 5 7 p.m. Central time, 6 p.m. Mountain Time, 5 p.m. Pacific time and 4 p.m. Alaska time. Somebody else will have to volunteer other time zones.

and by clicking on the chatroom tab, you can join us in the chatroom which is the best fun of all. You can call in live with questions at 888-747-1968.

Join us there -- and there are too many days when I seem "clueless" as well!

Sarkozy sweeps in to "save" the day and barter for peace:

"Sarkozy to visit Israel to promote truce
French president expected to arrive in Jerusalem on Monday in bid to mediate between Israel, Hamas. Foreign Minister Livni to meet with French government officials in Paris later this week. Quartet calls for immediate ceasefire in Gaza, southern Israel."

Link to YNET article-

Heads Up Everyone:
I just received a email from one of the moderators of the Micro Effect Chatroom:

"If you have problems getting in the chatroom, you'll have to go to the micro effect page to get to it. I tried going into the chatroom under my favorites, but it wouldn't work. Let others know if you can."

NOW THAT I HAVE VISITED YOUR WEBSITE AND SEE WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM, I MUST SAY I AM G - R - E - A - T - L - Y ENCOURAGED. I had some misplaced fears that perhaps Lucis Trust had paid us a call -- we have had Theosophists come calling from time to time. I see you cite many of the same scriptures I have relied heavily upon: Jeremiah 10:23, Daniel, etc. Having been at this since 1981, seeing your very fine work is extremely reassuring to me.

God bless you!


From the Niki Raapana website, comment by Bobby Garner under the Cumbey thread:

"...I'm very disappointed that Constance tolerates Zionist shills on her blog, embracing them even as "highly esteemed contributors". Perhaps Dorothy is right that "Constance will do what she wants to do", with a little help from her "highly esteemed contributors". In the movie Braveheart, the Nobel's reveal their secret of control. Compromise."
Er, ah, Bobbie Garner:

I am plumbing your site a little deeper and am with some concerns that I hope you can shed some light on. I am particularly concerned by your Ahriman references. Concern with Lucifer and Ahriman was common to the Rudolf Steiner cult. Steiner taught that when Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit he meant 'the Lucifer spirit.'

I have to ask you -- what is your opinion of

1. Anthroposophy
2. Steiner Schools
3. Waldorf Schools

Thanks for answering.

This is really interesting.

Will you check out this site?:

It's about praxis. I would be curious to see your thoughts on this site in relation to Nikki's work.

BIll, I know the symbols are about the world religioins. I know this symbol has been exposed somewhere on the internet because I ran across it this summer while looking into Bentley and tattoo symbols. I cannot find the site that explained and pointed out that circle symbol or had it with a "maitreya" symbol in the middle linking them all. I was hoping someone here might know where that site is.

Constance: I am well aware the site is dangerous, didn't have to spend much time and the symbol begged me off and gave me the immediate warning sign. It is though a site that sucks folks in needing prayer. My father perhaps has downloaded their prayer popup. If I knew where the original or a site is that explained that symbol then I would have info to share and point others to as well. Right now all I have is my word.
Former priest speaks on mysticism:

I don't agree with everything he says, for those of you who know were I stand, but he has some very information. He speaks from first hand experience.

You may have already tried this but...

type in "coexist" looks like Bono has something going.
On the priest William Johnson:

Evangelical Richard Foster quotes Catholic Mystics and spreads mysticism in the Evangelical world:

Tony Jones, Emergent:

These are all people involved in mysticism from the
video.. There's a lot more out there but this is a start.


12:02 AM

Is the upper left symbol the one you mean?

Thanks, I knew which BC you lived in, as I seem to remember asking before. While Kellogg, Ralston, and Post do seem to have sure footing for the moment, Kellogg no longer employs that many people in the area. Also one needs to remember the coming issue of inflationary prices considering food as is laid out in Revelation.
If a quart of wheat will cost a days wage, could you imagine what a box of frosted flakes will cost? I mean yeah THHHHEEERRRRRREE GRRRRREEATTT! but I can't see spending $20+ for a box! (Sorry Constance couldn't let you have all the fun) Is Chapel Hill the one off of Riverside? I will talk to my wife tommorrow and we will most likely come to visit Sunday.

Then there's Saint Ignatius of Loyola who has become popular again:

This is in vogue now in the Emergent Church.

The Emerging Church is using icons:

Here's one of the many verses on serving graven images:

Psa. 97:7 Let all those be ashamed who serve graven images,
Who boast themselves of idols;
Worship Him, all you gods.

Here is the connection between Emergent and Synagogue 3000, so it's kind of interesting to see that the mystic Catholics are influencing the Emergents and the Emergents are influencing the folks at Synagogue 3000.

It's on happy ecumenic family:

Filled with deception. Anyone think the common thread will be mysticism? I do.

Oops! Forgot to sign in!


If what I have read in the Air Force Research and Applications docs is acurate it could be. If one was to speculate as to what may not be in the official story then I would say propably. I don't want to post these in full but if you or anyone else hasn't seen these docs on HAARP I can email them.


Thanks, thats one I don't hear too often! lol
Carrie and others,

I almost forgot, I also have one of the patent used for HAARP. Which I can also email. This one has very interesting uses listed such as,

Still further, plumes in accordance with the present invention can be formed to simulate and/or perform the same functions as performed by the detonation of a "heave" type nuclear device without actually having to detonate such a device. Thus it can be seen that the ramifications are numerous, far-reaching, and exceedingly varied in usefulness.


Weather modification is possible by, for example, altering upper atmosphere wind patterns or altering solar absorption patterns by constructing one or more plumes of atmospheric particles which will act as a lens or focusing device.
It's interesting that Creme shows apparitions of Mary on his site:

I know many of you have heard Creme, but for those who haven't:

Creme clearly appeals to the mystical side of religious people in describing the Maitreya, not the Word of God which his so clear.

We can add man's traditions and experience to Biblical truth, but it will likely bring great confusion in the last days and those that have opened the spiritual door to deception will be easily deceived.

Those that know the Word of God will not be deceived. Experience, by passing the mind is an open door for deception. God does not by pass our minds. He spoke the heavens and the earth into creation, by His Word we know Him. He is the Word that became flesh. The Apostle Peter said in the Last Days there would be lots of deception and his encouragement to us is:

Pet. 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.

We are supposed to remember the Word spoken by Yeshua, the prophets and the apostles:

And it's by His Word that the world is being upheld until He says otherwise:

2Pet. 3:5-7 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that aby the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was bormed out of water and by water, through which athe world at that time was bdestroyed, being flooded with water. But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for bfire, kept for cthe day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

That is why it is His Word that counts, no men's vain traditions and we should be very careful what we believe, and make sure that we can confirm it in the Word of God. Today what is under fire is the Word of God. We will see more and more adding and taking away. This is what happened in Nazi Germany.

This is how heads of denominations and leaders today are calling for a 2 state solution. If they read God's Word, they would know they are not supposed to divide God's Land. That's just one example but there are many examples.

The most important thing we can do in these days is be Bereans and realize that many will go astray. If the apostasy doesn't come, the Bible says the end will not come, so expect many to be deluded make sure you cling to the Word, by which the heavens and earth came into existence and the Living Word, Yeshua, who became flesh and dwelt among us.

That's the only protection against the delusion that is coming on the earth.

Leave aside vain human tradition. It is worthless and will burn up.

Col. 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Messiah.

From Bobby Garner's website:

Bobby and Nikki are friends, by the way.

From the article:
"A Great Conspiracy that did not favour one racial group per se but uses race as a powerful means of enlisting gullible fools into doing things out of hate in the misapprehension that their actions furthered their own parochial concerns. But in reality their actions merely empowered the Cult of Evil more and more until the grip on the temporal affairs of this world by this Evil cult is such that their final move for One World Government and One World Religion will destroy all things opposing it. Including the bigots and zealots that helped them get this power, such as Zionists, both Jew and non-Jew, Jesuits and Freemasons."

Strong words , IMO.
Bill that definitely is similar or related. It has the middle symbol I saw before. I think though what I saw contained all the symbols in the live prayer network logo. I could be wrong because it was months ago. But having that link is certainly helpful.
Bill and looking coexist brings up interesting similar use of the imagery. None of them are the original article, which even explained or discussed how the middle symbol was actually even similar to the swastika. In the future when I run across the stuff I need to bookmark it cause I don't find it again.

Also know there was some information out there about someone who is a Christian but reads a lot of New age stuff and allegedly sat in on a theosopical society meeting. I cannot find that either.
Now a look at how music is being used to blend mystical experience. Here is an Israeli musician who talks about his mystical experiences with Sufism and Indian music:

this was in LA:

In Morocco:

Let's look at what the European Jewish Congress has to say about Sacred Music:

We were looking at this page about a week ago and someone was discussing
how in the middle it looks like a swastika

Otherwise the only thing I can think of besides the coexist symbol with all the religions in a circle, is most all of the Interfaith Organizations use some form of the lotus in their logo. A few examples below. -Rudi


Common Ground

United Religious Initiative
CIRCLE with a DOT (BINDU) in the center: In the complex symbolic system of Hinduism and Buddhism, the bindu (dot) represents the male force. Together, the circle and the bindu symbolize the merging of male and female forces. (See Sun Sign and the above explanation for CIRCLE)

I have recently watched a video on the male/female symbolism that is found in many areas including churches, cathedrals, temples and such. There are many forms of it, and from the explanation I saw it is somewhat like occultic symbolic pornography. Representing fornication. Why would the occultists like to have the symbol of male/female uniting so much? Sex is not a uniquely occult practice, although very highly perverted and revered in a most unholy way in their cirlces. But this symbolic "fornication" symbol used in so many plain sight places: churches, temples, etc (not places you'd expect "pornography" or occult symbolism) especially those built by or controlled by the Masons. Can this be related to the "spiritual fornication" mentioned in the Bible? Like God was just tying something else up with a perfect bow? (Like the EU using the woman riding the beast and the tower of Babel as their icons, using it all over their buildings, coinage and literature.)

Sorry if I'm not writing too clearly it's WAAAYY past my bedtime.
Israeli leaders reject immediate Gaza truce

JERUSALEM – Israeli officials say the country has decided to reject an immediate 48-hour pause in a devastating five-day offensive against Hamas in Gaza.
Well, I am a Christian, and since 1981 have read an awful lot of "New Age stuff" and have sat in on a Theosophical Society meeting (taking by surprise a local Catholic auxiliary Bishop Gumbleton) who was speaking there and was warned to be extremely careful of what he said because I was in the audience.

I don't know if I'm the one you had in mind, but my own observation of the New Age Movement is no secret to anyone.

JWR report by Caroline B. Glick-
"Both Iran and its Hamas proxy in Gaza have been busy this Christmas week showing Christendom just what they think of it. But no one seemed to have noticed."

"On Tuesday Hamas legislators marked the Christmas season by passing a Sharia criminal code for the Palestinian Authority. Among other things, the code legalizes crucifixion."

"Hamas's endorsement of nailing enemies of Islam to crosses came at the same time as it renewed its jihad. Here too, Hamas wanted to make sure that Christians didn't neglected as its fighters launched missiles at Jewish day care centers and schools. So on Wednesday Hamas lobbed a mortar at Erez crossing point into Israel just as a group of Gazan Christians were standing on line waiting to travel to Bethlehem for Christmas."
Link Here:

Or Here:

This is reminder enough for me as to why Christians and Jews need to stand together against such hatred.

By His Grace,
It's 3:05 am on New Year's Eve, 12-31-2008 and I am still in my office. My throat is getting VERY SCRATCHY. Pray for me -- I definitely cannot afford to be sick!

And let's not forget in the words of Robert Muller, former Asst. Sec. Gen of UN, follower of Alice Bailey, who recommended learning from the monk Brother Lawerence, how to "practice the presence of God".

You can learn what Bro. Lawerence was about briefly here:

more on sacred chants;

Doesn't get more New Age than this:
One more that tries to bridge the spiritual gap in a "creative way" . I personally would not subscribe to the site, but you get an idea without subscribing:

here's the recipe for joining the different belief systems:

It has a nice humanistic ring to it..

Brother Wayne Teasdale is referenced on the link;

It's actually only 1:14 in my neck of the woods. You have my prayers, Constance! Grab some AirBorne- works for me most of the time!

By His Grace,
And if you don't read any of the other links, read at least this one:

Quite amazing!


Hot toddy, always makes my throat feel better. Hot water, lemon and honey with or without some liquor, I can never remember what drink it is supposed to contain, brandy I think.

Prayers included and should always work better than any man-made concoction.

If an earthquake can be held as a symbolic message, what is the message of a sore throat?
Joyce you provided this link, and I was wondering why it seemed so important to you; just curious!
In the 1960s and 70s I knew hundreds of people who did that stuff and it didn’t help them at all; I would say it hurt them, and some of them died, some went insane. Masters and Johnson did quite a study on that pharmacopeias; just old news: Eve saw that it was good and did eat.
Timothy Leary bought into that form of mysticism and turned hedonist; that should help mankind. Maybe we should put that stuff in the Iranian food supply.
Happy New Year to all,
My thanks to Constance for having me on her show again tonight, and for inviting me back next week.

It's most unfortunate that who I am became more important than my work, and I'm sorry my kneejerk reaction to the negative remarks about me led me to do the same in return. I gain nothing by defending myself here, and everyone loses if Constance's audience ignores the substance of the information I've gathered. I will not apologise for my links, my beliefs, or my stand against political Zionism. So, we would all benefit if more writers from the Christian, Jewish and Muslim communities prepared their own papers on the topic. There is so much available from acreddited sources that you wouldn't need to cite my work at all, although my site will save you the trouble of scouring the internet to find it.

For those of you looking for a Christian perspective on communitarianism, besides Bobby Garner I also recommend Berit Kjos who has posted some of my research on Hegel and communitarianism at her website (reprinted with my permission and with a disclaimer that she does not agree with everything posted at the ACL).

The only other issue I would like to address is Dorothy's claim that my work has not been recognised by academics. Our ACL thesis and many of my topic articles are listed in the National Association of Scholars' (NAS) bibliography for their "No More Delawares" Initiative. My community policing research has been cited in a PhD thesis at the US Naval Academy, and the ACL is included under "opposition" at the wikipedia comunitarianism page (although the gatekeepers there remove anything unflattering and refuse to allow a sub-category for communitarian law by insisting it doesn't exist!)

Communitarian programs and policies are in development across the US and the entire world. This "new" law has and will continue to change our lives so dramatically that we should all have the chance to consider the consequences for ourselves. This global system of justice does not only affect one religion, race, or nation; it assumes complete power over everyone on the planet.

The actual name for the law of the UN, the European Union and the WTO is Communitarian Law. Doesn't it seem just a little bit strange that most people have never heard of it?

Niki Raapana
Anti Communitarian League
Will Grigg was interviewed by Stan Monteith yesterday. He is writing a book on communitarianism.

His blog site is:

In view of the discussion about children's books that some of us had on the previous thread, this article is a must read. Also, be sure to read through to the end where it discusses the plot to kill God. This seems to be the popular theme running through most occultic literature these days. Sadly, this includes not just demonic books like "The Armageddon Conspiracy" , which I've discussed, but also the genre known as Children's Books.

Lord help us.
Constance, what I am referring to is there is some guy who sat in the meeting (not you) as "undercover" christian. Some theosopical big wig was at meeting, talked about Matreya, talked about there soon coming a new "application" of electricity. Guy asked the speaker about the popes connection to the plan for bringing Maitreya to the seen. It is about all I recall. Came across it back in June.

Rudi, somewhere there was someone explaining the new spirituality symbol from Christian perspective. Originally found it from a link someone posted at revival school and that forum is dead now.

It more like the symbol on and the site. Really wish I had bookmarked this stuff. Thought if anyone knew where they were it would be here, but guess not. :(
But interesting stuff pointed out that is connected.

However this really truely is on topic with communitarianism because it fits and shows the moral inclusivity that is being pushed.

I usually sing in the choir, but we're not singing this Sunday. The choir sings at our 9:00 traditional service (my preferred service). Since the main Sunday School is at the 10:45 contemporary service, my whole family attends that one. This Sunday I'll only be at the 10:45 service.

Warning! Chapel Hill is a Purpose Driven Church. I'm not as gun-ho on this as the rest of the church. We even have a labyrinth, which I call Stonehenge. I still go because my wife is not eager to leave and I like to sing in the choir. Plus, so many churches have adopted some form of emergent church or purpose driven, it would be difficult to avoid this in some form. Besides, my wife and I were married there.

Denso is actually the number one employer, but Kellogg's has just pledged to do some major renovations downtown. They still are our number one bread and butter.

Anyways, hope to see you Sunday. I have two young boys, a 7-year-old and a 3-year-old. My 7-year-old is mildly autistic and likes to stare at the ceiling fans inside the church. We have to always accompany him or he will run around finding a way to play with the fans.

David in Battle Creek
I wanted to say that tonight Venus should come into view before sunset. So it will be visible during the daytime and into the evening. It will be somewhere near the moon. Is this the star referred to by Share International? Hopefully, I'll be able to see it. But, Michigan can be quite cloudy in the winter, especially the closer we are to Lake Michigan.

David in Battle Creek
It was tied into mysticism and Brother Wayne Teasdale.

Here's the aspect I was interested in:

If chemicals can do the same thing as mysticism, there is a solution to deal with atheists too. I guess it was my mistake to not connect it with the other link I sent on Wayne Teasdale. It would have made more sense. Noetic Sciences is part of this, which of course is no surprise.

I'll attach one quote:

Statement of Purpose
The Council on Spiritual Practices is a collaboration among spiritual guides, experts in the behavioral and biomedical sciences, and scholars of religion, dedicated to making direct experience of the sacred more available to more people. There is evidence that such encounters can have profound benefits for those who experience them, for their neighbors, and for the world.

CSP has a twofold mission: to identify and develop approaches to primary religious experience that can be used safely and effectively, and to help individuals and spiritual communities bring the insights, grace, and joy that arise from direct perception of the divine into their daily lives.

The Council on Spiritual Practices has no doctrine or liturgy of its own.

Check out the site a little more..I just wonder where they are heading with all of this "scientific research".

Yes, that might be an improvement for the Iranians for sure! Do you think the US could just drop lots of LSD there and kill their initiative to produce nukes.? I'm sure the CIA has thought of this already...

Happy and healthy New Year to you too!
Raapana writes,
"Our ACL thesis and many of my topic articles are listed in the National Association of Scholars' (NAS) bibliography for their "No More Delawares" Initiative."

It's a fringe organization and your name doesn't come up in any search. Please give a link. And even if there was a link, it only means the writer didn't do his work in using your material as a credible source.

"My community policing research has been cited in a PhD thesis at the US Naval Academy, "

Name of the writer and how the information can be checked out.

You are listed as an opposition source in Wikipedia. So is the American Atheist organization. Big whoopie.

As I said, you are clever enough to ride a big horse for your other agenda. Many "scholars" also wrote for the Nazi movement. The New Age movement is full of such "scholars."

Communitarianism may be a bad movement, but as others have said and I agree, "the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend."

The quality of your work on communitarianism is so tainted by your other connections that anyone who fights it better look to other sources, of which there are many, to keep their heads on straight.

You are counting on your presented information on communitarianism, which may or may not be original research, to give substance to your antisemitic agenda. It's an old tactic that has taken in many.

The first time we crossed swords I didn't know who you were and trusted you to be an honest person. I'm not that stupid now. Others will have to learn that on their own.

The New Age battle is very sophisticated, and it's proponents have something for everyone. Here's one lady that hasn't been taken in.

To anonymous 1:11

I'm not sure but it appears that you apparently quoted Bobby Garners website which said:

"Including the bigots and zealots that helped them get this power, such as Zionists, both Jew and non-Jew, Jesuits and Freemasons."

Interesting how he lumps people like us non- Jew-hating Christians in with the FreeMasons!

Re: Communitarianism:

It appears that YS, Len and even Dorothy are not contributing here of late, though I'm hardly surprised.

Sadly, most people don't realize that Zionism includes not just 'bad' Jews, but also all the 'bad' Christians that believe that Israel should have a homeland.

Meanwhile, the real enemy, the pagans who wish to kill God so they can re-unite happily into the Cosmos somewhere as moondust, are laughing hysterically at the people who are so riled up by communitarianism, that they can't even see that they've been lumped in as part of the problem.

Great stuff, people. Sounds like a conspiracy to me.
While we are on the subject of apostate Catholics, here is some information about another apostate Catholic named Eddie Beckford who defected to the Messianic camp.

It may also be relevant in terms of "communitarian zionism" vis a vis a curious scam disguised as "zionism" that appears to be in play.


....Eddie Beckford’s Arad Messianic cult may call itself Israeli and Jewish, but it’s neither. And Edwin Beckford tries to call himself an Israeli while stating that he won’t celebrate Israeli Independence Day, that Zionism is evil, that Orthodox Jews are with the Anti-Christ.

So why is he in Israel?

To recruit members for his cult of course. Even while despising and hating the country he lives in and the people he lives among.
Using his Messianic Hebrew Christian Fellowship (MHCF) forum Edwin Beckford writes blatant lies about Jews and Israel and issues constant solicitations for money. With articles like “Holocaust - Just Another Excuse?”,

"Some say “Yes! I’m for Israel being a democracy” but they fail to tell you “A democracy for Jews only” which brings you back to a sugar-coated Jewish State."

Except that Edwin Beckford lives in Israel and is free to run his cult and websites out of there. Arabs sit in the Knesset and vote in elections. So do Russian Non-Jews, Armenians, etc......

.....Who’s A Jew?

And then you have the issue of ‘Who’s A Jew? ‘. This is determined by the Rabbinical (Sanhedrin) Court of ultra-Orthodox (Pharisees)....

Here’s a hint for Eddie Beckford. A Catholic from Harlem who went to run his own cult is not a Jew. Just as I’m not a more.......


Using the Ariel bombing as an excuse, Christian cults operating in Israel under the name Messianic Jews, particularly in Arad, have begun a campaign of hate against Jews.

The Messianic Jews are really Non-Jewish Christians with messed up belief systems ranging from carrying out present day sacrifices to believing that Jesus (or as they call Jesus, Yeshua) came on a UFO. They’re into defrauding people, bringing them into the cult and working them non-stop and siphoning away their life savings. Just like Scientology.....

.......It’s natural that Jews in Israel don’t want such people or such cults setting up shop. Just as virtually no country in the world allows them to set up their cults. So they’ve resorted to a Pro-Israel veneer running sites like that pretend to be Pro-Israel on the surface to shake down Christians and Jews for money. At Arad and with thugs like Eddie Beckford leading them, it’s easy to see their real face. Despite all the lies put out on the web by their messianic cult, the messianic cult in Arad, Eddie Beckford and his followers are the primary source of hate waging a ruthless campaign against the Jews of Arad.
In the town of Arad Messianic cult leaders like Eddie Beckford have waged a campaign of hate against Jews while using Messianic outlets to present themselves as innocent victims. Yet the above video which shows Eddie Beckford trying to run down a Jewish man doesn’t show an innocent victim. There are other videos that show violent assaults. Yet Beckford’s Arad cult has successfully blanketed YouTube with numerous videos filled with hate for Jews while portraying themselves as the victims based on a shouting match with some Orthodox Jews. What their videos don’t show is the violent assaults they’ve committed against Orthodox more....

Messianic Missionary Eddie Beckford Attacks Orthodox Jew (Video)

Beyond Chutzpah: Missionary Shamelessness

.....A recent bomb attack on the son of a Messianic pastor prompted calls of condemnation on Orthodox Jews. Without any proof, Pat Robertson has denounced Orthodox Jews on his television station for complicity in this attack. This is despite the fact that the Mufti of Jerusalem issued a fatwa against this pastor for converting Muslims and that Fatah took credit for this attack. None of this has stopped the slander directed at the Jewish people. On the other hand, there are numerous cases of missionary abuse and assault on those who try to stop them. Eddie Beckford, head of the Messianic cult in Arab, was caught on video brutally assaulting a counter-missionary activist. Meanwhile, in all of Yad L'Achim's, a major counter-missionary organization, 50 years of activism, not one of its members has been convicted of violence. By playing the victim, they are able to gain sympathy and support to their evil more....

While I don't necessarily agree with everything that "Samurai Mohel" and others have to say, much of what they DO say is supported by the following article on Messianic Judaism by David A. Rausch who is associate professor of Church history and Judaic studies at Ashland (Ohio) Theological Seminary.

This article appeared in the Christian Century September 15-22, p. 926. Copyright by the Christian Century Foundation and used by permission.

The Messianic Jewish Congregational Movement
by David A. Rausch


Yeshua and Jewish Kabbalah also similar to Nazarene Kabbalah is an Abrahamic religious aspect or link found through last few decades after funds, translations, studies and spreading of new religious material through 20th century and especially at hte end of it.....

....development of Jewish concept of Yeshua, fairly different from Christian view of Jesus: through Messianic Judaism and various scools of Nazarene and concepts of Notzrim focusing on original Jewish teaching of Yeshua, using aramaic Peshitta and hebrew translation of NT (B'rit Hadasha). These concepts devoloped much earlier, at least from 19th century.....

Yeshua and Jewish Kabbalah describes a field of study related to a set of structural correspondences between material found in the logia of Yeshua, other Judeo-Christian, Jewish Christian, Messianic Jewish, Gnostic Christian material and Jewish mysticism, now known as Kabbalah. Such a comparison became possible after the discovery and spread of new religious texts throughout the 20th century, such as those found in the Nag Hammadi library........

There is a lot more, but this is a start.
Ahhhhh.... there's our resident Mossad agent!

Happy New Year, Dorothy!

Happy New year to you too! POP!


My prayers are with you. My husband just went through an awful bout of the flu which started with the same throat symptoms you are describing.

A friend recommended Oscillociccinum.
It's a mouthful, but maybe a lawyer with a little command of Latin can handle that--LOL!

The box is white with a yellow stripe and an orange stripe around the name.

He took it and it really helped. I took it and did not get the flu at all. My son took it and did not get the flu. Both my son and I did get a cold, but not the flu.

You can find the product in any pharmacy with the homeopathic cold remedies like Cold Calm and Zicam.

Many blessings and prayers for a speedy recovery.

Hi All

Happy New Year to all those who have already celebrated it. And to all who will tonight.

My husband and I started to watch the Golden Compass and had to turn it off in the first 10 minutes. It was actually an awesome moment because my DH does not study the stuff I do and often thinks I am way over reacting to what is happening. I had heard that the movie was written by an anthiest against God and most people scoff it off as "just entertainment". When the narrator says that in their world they have animals that walk beside them that they call demons (and are their guide, conscience or soul, I don't remember which) we knew it had to go. I was silenty praying he would see the obvious occult in this movie and practicing my silent obedience as a wife and suddenly he turned to me and said that he could no longer watch this movie. If you knew him you would know how much of a miracle that was.

Also, I haven't posted it because I assumed it had somewhere been covered, maybe was but this is from the Recreation Foundation by Neale Donald Walsh

Tomorrow's God
Purporting to be the dictation of a direct conversation with God, it places before humankind an unexpected prediction that our species will create a new God in the very near future. Gone will be the histrionics, requirements and commandments, judgments and punishments of Yesterday's God. Tomorrow's God describes in detail the character and characteristics of a future Deity whose only emotion is total love for all of humanity and life itself, and whose agenda includes no other objective than to empower life to produce more life, more abundantly and more gloriously in each moment. Striking in its theology and expansive in its cosmology, Tomorrow's God offers the world a path out of its unremitting despair and a just-in-time detour on what many see as its a journey to self-destruction.

What God Wants
Purporting to be the dictation of a direct conversation with God, it places before humankind an unexpected prediction that our species will create a new God in the very near future. Gone will be the histrionics, requirements and commandments, judgments and punishments of Yesterday's God. Tomorrow's God describes in detail the character and characteristics of a future Deity whose only emotion is total love for all of humanity and life itself, and whose agenda includes no other objective than to empower life to produce more life, more abundantly and more gloriously in each moment. Striking in its theology and expansive in its cosmology, Tomorrow's God offers the world a path out of its unremitting despair and a just-in-time detour on what many see as its a journey to self-destruction.

This one is interesting since seems to introduce sun worship to children.

The Little Soul and the Sun
Named one of the year's best children's books. Independent Press magazine, widely read in the publishing and book selling industry, picked The Little Soul and the Sun by Neale Donald Walsch as one of its eight recommended children's books. The book is a parable from Conversations with God adapted by Neale for children seven to twelve years old, with beautiful color illustrations by artist Frank Riccio. It is a wonderful explanation of why people sometimes do 'bad things' to each other. It also teaches children that it is very okay to be special - and that everyone is!"

The Little Soul and the Earth
The collaborative team that brought you The Little Soul and the Sun returns with an uplifting follow-up. The first book in a new series of Little Soul adventures, The Little Soul and the Earth finds our favorite little soul being asked by God to return to Earth in order to "experience who she really is." Frank Riccio is the Parents’ Choice Award-winning illustrator of Curriculum of Love and other books

Bringers of the Light
No explanation necessary on that one!

He did the Conversations with God books and there's a whole lot more on his website

There is an excellent chart of New Age symbols on Berit Kjos' site

On the left hand side is a list of items including the chart of symbols. I hope that helps.

Could it be said that forms of American communitarianism are the Bruderhoff communities, the Amish and Mennonite communities, the Shakers, the hippie communities, and in Israel the kibbutz? If it can be said, these are not bad examples of community life provided they are voluntary and provided they maintain moral uprightness. They can, of course, descend into moral decay, as too many have done.

There have been Catholic enclaves of this sort--one I recently discovered in Mexico, New Jerusalem, which is disintegrating, but that worked for many years. There are the Catholic female or male religious communities that would appear to me to be communitarian. Some are currently devoted to farm life, though their descent into gaia worship is troubling. Community supported agricultural farms are a form of communitarianism, I think, aren't they? Biodynamic farms are major contributors to this movement, though the Anthroposophy that lies behind their spirituality would keep me from being a supporter.

Jonestown was a form of communitarianism, wasn't it? Which goes to show what happens if the spiritual base is eroded.

I believe the Early Church was communitarian, wasn't it?

If it can be said that all of these examples are a form of communitarianism, can we claim that it has nothing to contribute to life on planet earth?
I wanted to ask about the several remarks about the Assemblies of God church. My family and I are currently attending an AoG. I do not take this as a personal attack as I do not consider myself a full-fledged member and have concluded that I will not officially become a member of any church as I cannot agree on the full doctrine of any one group.

I would like some honest feedback on the specific issues of the AoG. Is it all charismatic churches? Just the AoG? All protestants? Most Christian churches? I know there seems to be NA popping up in every church, denomination, Christian, Jewish and I would guess Muslim as well. If there is specific sound info on why the AoG is New Age or otherwise evil, I would like to, actually, I need to know. So far there have been some things that are bothersome (like our church had Christmas trees up for the holidays) but those are things not even most Christians or most anyone has an issue with.

Also, after Constance posted the Share International press release I took that to my pastor and a copy of the Esoteric Meaning of Lucifer from the Lucis Trust website, and although I had my doubts he would mention it, he actually addressed this in a less direct way at the service just before Christmas. I have taken him several pieces of info over the past year, like a copy of the Ark of Hope with the Earth Charter and he didn't respond to me personally or make mention of it at church and that bothered me. However, he did seem to take the SI news to heart and incorporated a lesson on no one is the Savior or God but the Jesus in the Bible and he specifically made mention of Buddha, Islam and New Age. (As a Christian I understand why he includes Islam as a false religion.) I was very reassured after that and quite excited that I had helped (I think) to alert our entire congregation.

Is anyone thinking of attending the very New Age gig at The Palace? (MI)

I was thinking of going to see if they will incorporate any of the other teachings, like Maitreya and to get a first hand look at how this stuff operates. But I one don't want to give them my money to further their cause and I wonder if this would be very dangerous and I wouldn't go alone.


Regarding you comment on symbolic fornication and the male and female dots and circles as occultic symbols:

There was a fascinating article that someone posted here months ago. It was very long and I forgot to archive it, but it was about the closing ceremony at the Beijing Olympics and how the Chinese actually reproduced a symbolic fornication of male and female right in the closing ceremony as millions watched on,unawares of the symbolism.

I've also written on my blog some extensive information about the occultic symbolism of the Beijing Olympics, but I only covered the opening ceremony, not the closing one. Maybe someone here remembers that link and can provide it again.

One thing that I found very interesting about that closing ceremony, and which the article didn't mention, was the choice to use vocalist Jimmy Page as the male in the symbolic union.

It is my understanding that Jimmy Page is one of the most demonically inspired singers of all time, and that his group Led Zeppelin's popular classic "Stairway to Heaven" was actually written through demonic channeling. The lyrics to the song are below, lest you need further proof.

I also thought it interesting that The Tent Lady includes Led Zeppelin in her favorite music category on her blog. Once I found out about the occultic influence behind the music, and how if played backwards, the song tells the listener to worship Satan, I refused to allow my children to listen to Led Zeppelin any more.

I think the Tent Lady is very, very intelligent, and has done a great deal of valid research. However, I would much prefer to reference a woman like Berit Kjos for information about communitarianism, lest we become unwitting pawns of the enemy.

All that being said, I give the Tent Lady a great deal of credit for living in a tent in Alaska, and I hope her confusion about her faith will be resolved in time!

"Stairway to Heaven" Lyrics:

There's a lady who's sure
All that glitters is gold
And shes buying a stairway to heaven.
When she gets there she knows
If the stores are all closed
With a word she can get what she came for.
Ooh, ooh, and shes buying a stairway to heaven.

There's a sign on the wall
But she wants to be sure
'cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.
In a tree by the brook
There's a songbird who sings,
Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it makes me wonder.

There's a feeling I get
When I look to the west,
And my spirit is crying for leaving.
In my thoughts I have seen
Rings of smoke through the trees,
And the voices of those who standing looking.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it really makes me wonder.

And its whispered that soon
If we all call the tune
Then the piper will lead us to reason.
And a new day will dawn
For those who stand long
And the forests will echo with laughter.

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow
Don't be alarmed now,
It's just a spring clean for the May Queen.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
And it makes me wonder.

Your head is humming and it wont go
In case you don't know,
The piper's calling you to join him,
Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow,
And did you know
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind.

And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul.
There walks a lady we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How everything still turns to gold.
And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last.
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll.

And shes buying a stairway to heaven.
To all who prayed for and advised me,

Thank you for your input and prayers in regards to the meeting with my pastor. We did not come to a conclusion, but did request an additional meeting. I felt we had a good exchange.

It was one of those agree to disagree agreeably kind of meetings. I cannot comment about the content of the meeting, but will say that my heart is heavy for the very subtle and often not so subtle changes that occur in our lives.

As one who is researching and discerning the signs of the times, I am far more sensitive to little seemingly "insignificant" factors. To others who do not consider the big picture or who see my views as over blown, those factors will often be discarded. This grieves me.

In some ways--and please take this in the correct spirit--in some ways I hope that I am wrong. If so, I will be quick to confess to God and beg His mercy. But if I am right (as I agree with so many of you), then I cannot be silent. I fear the Lord God first of all. Let Him be my judge.

I have delivered my message. The life of my church is no longer charged to my account.

I pray for my pastor, and all the pastors of the world who are being faced with the information we are discerning. God grant them wisdom and fortitude to preach the Word without compromise and the illumination of the Holy Spirit to discern the times.

God bless you all and grant you a joyous New Year,


My prayers are with you. My husband just went through an awful bout of the flu which started with the same throat symptoms you are describing.

A friend recommended Oscillociccinum.
It's a mouthful, but maybe a lawyer with a little command of Latin can handle that--LOL!

The box is white with a yellow stripe and an orange stripe around the name.

He took it and it really helped. I took it and did not get the flu at all. My son took it and did not get the flu. Both my son and I did get a cold, but not the flu.

You can find the product in any pharmacy with the homeopathic cold remedies like Cold Calm and Zicam.

Many blessings and prayers for a speedy recovery.

And a Happy New Year to you and everyone also. Never have we needed one more.

The comment quoted by anon 1:11 from one of my research pages, as I later discovered was written by Ian Welch at OverLordsofChaos which is chock full of what I consider to be some very credible information concerning a "Great Conspiracy".

I will give you a clue to understanding my method of research and disclosure of the results. Its based on verifiable evidence that nearly everyone is lying about something. Some wittingly, but most unwittingly. The knowing liars are deceivers, while the unwitting liars are merely complicit. They are complicit because they have believed one or more of the lies and teach them to others as truth. As a Lawyer, you understand the significance of complicity. None are innocent, we have all sinned and fallen short. "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."(1 John 1:10).

The reason this happens is a little thing called deception which most people (including Christians) associate with things like the experience of buying a used car for example. The Bible again corrects our thinking: "Satan; he deceiving the whole habitable world was cast out onto the earth"(Rev. 12:9). People go to extreme lengths to cover up, gloss over or justify their complicity, so there is a lot of denial. But Otto von Bismarck said "Never believe anything in politics, until it has been officially denied." Alcoholics Anonymous once had a commercial which claimed that denial was the first sign of addiction, although I suspect that MADD may not agree.

Therefore, I think we should all come down off our sanctimonious high horses and take a more realistic approach to objectivity. The idea of protecting the innocent is blown way out of proportion, and what is there to show for its centuries of practice? Our dogmatic ideas of religion and politics perpetuate this practice to secure themselves at the expense of any new knowledge which has not been screened by the elder caretakers of those institutions. I often marvel at how we ever escaped the Dark Ages with these practices intact. It appears that it was in spite of them, not because of them.

When we try to shield our innocent from the sources of evil, we restrict their knowledge of them to whatever words we choose to use in describing them. Parents tell a child don't touch that, its hot. Of course the child had no conception of 'hot', but at the earliest opportunity, he will certainly fill in that blank space. Why didn't mom just say go head and touch that. Its going to hurt, but you need to know how it feels, so that you can protect yourself in the future when there may be no one to warn you. The basic reason we behave this way is that we have a tendency to be control freaks, which implies a vote of no confidence that our children are creatures made in the image of God complete with the full mental faculty designed for thinking and resolving contradictions. We should not confuse them with our own justified contradictions.

Of course there is a reason we behave this way, and it relates to the effects of Adam and Eve's sin. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life". He also said "the truth shall set you free" of these effects. At John 17:3, he said: "And this is everlasting life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."

So, the question is, If we are not free, is it because we don't know the truth? What does that say about our religious dogmas which have been passed down generationally, and which are now under serious attack? On what ground can they be defended if the ground they occupy is eroding away?

I take a new approach of removing the wrapper and exposing the ugliness of deception and the methods of achieving it. This requires peering into some very dark corners and seeing first hand the evil that lurks there. Thats why I make no apologies for posting information about Ahriman and Lucifer for example. 2nd Corinthians 11:14 says: "And did not Satan marvelously transform himself into an angel of light?" Steiner, like Bailey channeled his information, and its equally credible when we understand why it was provided. Of course, he doesn't state the whole truth, and he misrepresents some of the real truth. This is a typical pattern of deception, and I offer numerous other examples. But this example explains the methodology of Satan's transformation. Ahriman is simply the Dark reality of Satan's character demonstrated by the (Lodge of Materialistic Forces), while Lucifer is his transformed enlightenment character presented by his disciples in the Great White Brotherhood who perform the marvelous task of manifesting it. Do we not understand that Paul who pinned this text must have known about this relationship? (He was trained in the Pharisaic tradition)

If we are on the Titanic and we see its going down, we need to jump ship if we hope to be rescued. Does the Bible not teach us that God helps those who help themselves? He does not force himself upon anyone does he? Is it a Christians desire to mirror his qualities or not?
YG 11:16am

How sad. Thanks for the reply. It's sad for me because in our teenage years Stairway to Heaven was my husband and I's first dance at a highschool homecoming. It's one of "our songs". I have only recently began to see the inner meanings of so much of this stuff. I love most kinds of music and struggle with my conscience on what to listen to and what not to listen to. Lately that doesn't seem to be a problem because I hardly ever listen to music as I'm either on the net reading / researching, here trying in vain to keep up with all this or listening to internet news radio such as Dr. Stan on Radio Liberty and now I am trying to include the micro effect.

Anyway, I think your reply to me is probably a word from God. He has been working on separating me from those things He is displeased with and music has long been a large part of my life. It should be a simple decision, but our fleshly selves (at least mine) make it hard even in the "small things", sometimes these are harder I think because we think they are just that, "small things" and therefore inconsequential.

Ahhh, the walk is getting clearer and more personal every day.

This song is a toughie. But I get it.

Blessings to you.
It's the specifics where your deception falls apart.

To Bobby Garner:

"our dogmatic ideas of . . religion . . ."

Please define what 'dognmatic' idea you are referring to: Are you quarreling with the tenets of the Apostles and Nicene creeds, for example?

I am exstremely curious as to where you are really coming from . . . methinks I detect elements of the occult . . . hope I am wrong. One anonymous poster here called to my attention that you allegedly called Niki Raapala
"A zionist shill"

Something is not adding up to me --if I am wrong, set me straight.


Hi! Agreed and Happy New Year to you too. 2009 is definately going to be interesting.

Can you recommend a good English/Hebrew Bible (I'm sure that is not the word for the Hebrew scriptures.) I have some good books on Jewish history and Hebrew (Joyce kindly recommended Brown Drivers Briggs which I have and some others) but I would very much like an "Old Testament" in Hebrew/English. I want the most accurate version possible, I can't figure out which one is the closest to the original scriptures.

Please forgive my less than accurate titles, I mean no disrespect, I definately need to learn more about the Judaic writings.

To those who have mentioned the friendship between Niki and myself:

I consider Niki to be a very dear friend although we have never met or even talked on the phone. We communicate through email and our websites. I discovered her research work while working on an article I was writing about sustainability in August of 2004. I was inspired to title it Communities of Sustainable Fools
I am familar with Kjos's site and unfortunately it doesn't have the content I am referring to.
Hi Suzette,

Don't feel bad. We've all been taken in by certain music. I am almost sorry I brought up the 'Stairway to Heaven' lyrics, as now the darn song is playing in my brain again.

Back in the early 1990's, I had a very charismatic teacher in my dance school. The students were mesmerized by her, and her classes were huge. Unfortunately, she was a New Age Pagan, but it took me a long while to figure that out since I was so busy all the time.

Around 1993, during the school's annual end of year recital, she choreographed a modern jazz dance to the music of Prince, a song called "Seven".

At the time, I thought it was a very cool and catchy tune, even as it too kept playing over and over in my head. Finally, the day of the recital, one of my teenage sons said to me, "Mom, you probably wouldn't have allowed this song in your show if you knew what it was really all about!"

Sigh. The wisdom of children sometimes...

I was stunned, and felt a little sheepish as well. I knew the woman had a dark side, but I kept her in my school because of her popularity. The following year I was brought out of my slumber about this woman and the New Age movement. I have been writing the story of what happened that year on my blog, and although the whole story is far from finished, you can click on my moniker Young_Grasshopper if you would like to begin reading it.

It's very hard to keep up with all the problematic music, books, churches, movies, and associations these days. That's why we need The Holy Spirit's guidance in our lives. As I was thinking about communitarianism and sustainable development yesterday, an old Beatles tune popped into my head. I suppose I would have liked it much less had I known what it was about in 1969. But then again, I was only 16, so who knows.

Here is a link to the lyrics to Prince's song 'Seven':

Check out the demonic symbol of Prince's name on the top right- hand corner across from his picture. The lyrics to 'Seven' are also there, but here's a short sample:

"All 7 and we'll watch them fall
They stand in the way of love
And we will smoke them all
With an intellect and a savoir-faire
No one in the universe will ever compare..."

And the Beatles tune, "Piggies"

"Have you seen the little piggies
Crawling in the dirt
And for all the little piggies
Life is getting worse
Always having dirt to play around in.

Have you seen the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt
Always have clean shirts to play around in.

In their sties with all their backing
They don't care what goes on around
In their eyes there's something lacking
What they need's a damn good whacking.

Everywhere there's lots of piggies
Living piggy lives
You can see them out for dinner
With their piggy wives
Clutching forks and knives to eat their bacon."

The Beatles, too, were taken in by drugs and mystical Eastern influences, and sadly their immensely popular music had an incredible influence on ushering in "The Age of Aquarius".
Constance, you asked: "Are you quarreling with the tenets of the Apostles and Nicene creeds"?

Only to the degree that they deviate from the teachings of Jesus. You should probably read my disclaimer.

I have met up with some pretty harsh realities in my 60 plus years, largely in my estimation, due to the Baptist teachings that I was indoctrinated with from childhood. I started asking questions at a very early age which were never answered to my satisfaction. Jehovah's Witnesses were much better at providing answers, but I discovered that there were things which even they would not touch. Such as why did they publish UN information and use the UN as an authoritative source? That was in the mid 1990's and I left the organization in 1996. It was later discovered that they were in fact an NGO, which obligated them to republish UN propaganda.

Most organized religions are either NGO's or affiliated with an evangelical or missionary organization which is an NGO. The the extent to which the UN engages in unlawful, immoral, or in any fashion which contradicts the Teachings of Jesus Christ, Its membership of NGO's are complicit in that activity. Thousands of Jehovah's Witness who saw the hypocrisy have left for that reason, and most of them have absolutely no idea of what their next move should be.

Anyone doubting that their church is an NGO or associated with an NGO can research it on the UN's DPI-NGO section. Select 'All' categories, and enter various search terms. Not all are listed on the page. There appears to be some attempt at obscurity. Don't know why they would do that.

As for where I'm coming from, it really is not complicated, but I am not into the art and practice of persuasion for reasons which should become clear rather quickly for all who really wish to know.

The anonymous poster cannot support his allegation. He is likely the same one I addressed with my comment which was obviously tongue-in-cheek, where I wrote, "OK I admit it, Niki is an antisemite and I'm a Massod agent". My spelling of 'Massod' should make it clear that I am one, because who else would know that?

I also said that we were running a conspiracy teaching people how to recognize liars by their tactics.

I also mentioned the importance of resolving contradictions. But I also realize that people who are accustomed to justifying them instead are not very good at recognizing them.
To Susanna (10:39 AM):

Thank you so much for sharing the information - and exposure of - Eddie Beckford.
Happy New Year to everyone here!

Even to Bobby Garner who has concerns about my reading and comprehension skills, LOL! Yeah, it's okay, Bobby. I realize I'm a little shrill and don't spell very well either, but nonetheless I'm human and want to say that I love everyone here!

Hope you feel better soon!

May the good Lord hedge us in and protect our families from the ENEMY's devices throughout 2009!


Thanks for the heads up regarding your churches current teachings, I will have my bs detector switched on. Barring any unforseen circumstances my wife and I look forward to visiting with you and your family.

Many in our area don't realize quite how bad the manufacturing situation has gotten around here. My uncle has worked for denso for 15 years, per him Denso is currently only working one shift as opposed to the three full shifts that had been worked previously. They also will be CLOSED for the majority of january, as they don't have orders for parts to keep their employees working. My step dad works for KOYO, one of Denso's largest suppliers here in town, and Koyo is experiencing the same. Koyo is also trying to get employees to voluntarily quit, with promises of payouts, and rehire when the economy gets better. My cousin who works for TRMI has told me they are in a similar situation as far as being closed through January. All of these places are working limited hours, all three of my family members had averaged only around 25 hours a week for the month previous to the holiday. Kellogg's has stayed prominent simply because they shipped their manufacturing south a couple years ago, leaving only the head office and research and development here.

Barring the unforseen, I will post a way you will be able to identify me on saturday, so as not to miss one another.
I'm thinking that communtarianism is more of a philosophy that could easily lead to formation of cults (or a presidential campaign). It seems similar to the structure of the New age Movement. It's possible people could embrace pieces of communtarianism without realizing what it is. However, there has to be an inner circle of folks who know exactly what's going on. Perhaps Niki could explain it better than myself.

David in Battle Creek
Here is an interesting article about a rare lining up of planets that is happening tonight. Venus is supposed to be so bright that it can be seen even during the day.... Sound familiar??
To Bobby Garner:

Please be specific about if and how those two creeds in particular deviate from the teachings of Jesus. I could not help but notice that some of your scriptural quotes appear to come from the Jehovah's Witnesses bible version.

This comment has been removed by the author.

Celestial Show Set for New Year's Eve

A delightful display of planets and the moon will occur on New Year's Eve for anyone wishing to step outside and look up just after sunset.

Venus, brighter than all other planets and stars, will dangle just below the thin crescent moon in the southwestern sky. It'll be visible -- impossible to miss, in fact -- just as the sun goes down, assuming skies are cloud-free.

Soon thereafter, Mercury and Jupiter will show up hugging the south-southwestern horizon (just above where the sun went down) and extremely close to each other. Jupiter is very bright and easy to spot; Mercury is faint and harder to see, but it'll be apparent by its location just to the left of Jupiter.

Jupiter and Mercury will set less than an hour after the sun, so timing your viewing just after sunset is crucial. You'll also need a location with a clear view of the western horizon, unobstructed by buildings, trees or mountains.

All the planets, along with the moon and sun, traverse an arc across our sky called the ecliptic, which corresponds to the plane in space that they all roughly share. For this reason, you could draw an imaginary line from the general location of Venus and the moon, down through the other two planets, and the line would point to where the sun went down. This line could also initially help you find Jupiter and Mercury.

One last trick:
Venus is so bright you can see it during daylight if you know where to look. Given Venus' proximity to the moon on New Year's Eve, this would be an excellent moment -- just before sunset -- to use the moon to help you find Venus and gain bragging rights for being one of the few people to be able to claim seeing more than one planet during the daytime (Earth being the other one).
Hi Gretchen,

Heard that on the radio at about 4 a.m. this morning as I was coming home through snow and I thought the same thing . . .

It seems the link is too long to cut and paste but if you go to the Yahoo start up page the article can be found there.
Hi Constance,

I guess we'll see if anything comes of it... Interesting to see this after being warned of something like this. Except maybe the Benjamin Creme crowd was keeping an eye on what will happen in the sky's and used it as a "prophetic" sign.

Barring any unforseen situation my wife and I look forward to visiting with you on sunday. In regards to the content your church has been espousing, not to worry I have a bovine fecal indicator which I will keep switched on. Having multiple family members spread through out the factories here, I could propably go on all day about the prblems these places are facing. Perhaps we will get a chance to discuss this in person as I don't want to take up too much space here. Barring the unforseen I will post on saturday a way for you to identify me, so we don't miss one another.

I would love to read your story. Thanks for the link. I was a Prince fan, saw him in concert even. I didn't understand symbolism at the time but certainly his music was not Christian, I often disregarded my conscience in regards to things like that. But that was when I was a rather wayward teenager. Now I've tried to make a real and deep committment to my faith and my family is getting uncomfortable. Unfortunately and very sadly, most of my children didn't grow up with a real relationship with God. We always had a "Christian" home, but it was a far cry from the true separation from the world that is required of us. I now am fighting not only my own wordly ways but the firm grip my family has on the things of this world.

If I had only (to use a slightly scary phrase) woken up sooner.

Please pray for us. Other than one friend, and my youngest, who is so aware of evil when it presents itself that he puts me to shame, I am truly fighting a lonely and uphill battle on this. My youngest is 7 and when I started to explain the underlying images, occult and magic in things he immediately began screening his own cartoons, books and movies. We've been clearing out some unhealthy clutter ever since. My older children and often my DH see most things as "just entertainment" and are trying very hard to ignore the times that are at hand despite my constant barrage of warnings. I am afraid I am bordering on harping.

I have company coming in a bit but will look forward to catching up later. There's several good topics on this thread that I want to explore and discuss.

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who wasn't "born" aware and repulsed by the NA and had to learn to see it.


Thank you for that very interesting research on Eddie Beckford.

The more I learn about Messianic Jewish groups the more wary of them I become. My only first-hand experience with them is on this blog, where Joyce tramples over Catholic and Jewish beliefs like a broken record. (Maybe this is considered "normal" behavior in some messianic groups?)

The quote by Pat Robertson dovetails with the disturbing information Constance has uncovered about him.
We (hubby and I) will certainly pray for you, Suzette.
Sorry David I did not think my first post went through.
JD & David,

Is this the first ever "get together" of the Constance Cumbey comments section?

Awwww, I'm jealous!

P.S. If the answer is "yes," shouldn't you be holding this in a "gastropub" instead of a church? LOL
Wishing all a Happy New Year! I hope you all will enjoy your festivities tonight as much as I know I will mine.
Gretchen 1:13pm

Excellant news. Thanks for the heads up. Do the NAgers think the populace is so uneducated that people will not know that this is indeed Venus? I guess the perpetrators of the "new star" think most people are and they will use that to their advantage. I guess if we recall that very uneducated beauty queen a while back, many could be fooled by this "normal" astrological event.

Anon 1:26pm

Thank you so much.


Now I'm off to prepare for company.
The 1:30 post is me, no idea why it posted anon as I am signed in.


No idea if this is the 1st, but I can not personally think of a better place than a church which David has described as "purpose driven" with a labrynth he calls stone henge. lol

JD (@1:35), who writes:

I can not personally think of a better place than a church which David has described as "purpose driven" with a labrynth he calls stone henge.

Hey, I live in Michigan and my son lives not too terribly far from BC and even I didn't get invited to THAT party. I'm jealous too!

Happy New Year to all!


I had to laugh at this one. =0) I guess that those who tend to lean towards the NA don't like specifics, facts, etc... it would be easy to pull this one off for those folks I suppose.

Good luck with your company! I'll be spending the day with my father-in-law and the DH aunt as well.
From WorldNetDaily (12/31/08)

Crucifixion OK with Mideast politicos

Islamic radicals also endorse cutting off hands, whippings

The political arm of a radical Islamic group has approved a new law that allows traitors to their government to be crucified, thieves' hands to be chopped off and someone guilty of drinking alcohol to be whipped.

According to a report in the Jewish World Review, Hamas, which was elected to government power in Gaza, over Christmas week adopted penalties included in the Shariah criminal code for the Palestinian Authority.

The report said Hamas endorsed "nailing enemies of Islam to crosses" even as it was renewing its jihad by lobbing missiles at day care centers, schools and travelers in line "to travel to Bethlehem for Christmas."

According to the online military news resource Strategypage, Hamas "believes it is better to be feared than loved" so it instituted the new laws.

"When word of its new laws reached the Western media, Hamas denied it. But in Gaza, the Arabic media made it clear that the new laws were very real, even if embarrassing when trying to explain it to the infidels," the site's commentary said.

"The ancient barbarity of crucification (sic) is brought back to life on the same week as British television broadcasts a 'Christmas message' from the radical Islamic president of Iran," noted the online page for One Jerusalem, a group established to unite people behind the concept of keeping the city away from division.

Right Side News Reports said, "Christians better wake-up as Hamas is bringting back the 'crucifixion' of Christians, Jews and anyone else who does not conform to their ideology."

A participant in the site's forum page said, "Anyone who isn't following the teachings of the Quran is an infidel to them, and according to the Quran they must convert or be killed. So wake up world! That means if you are Jewish, Christian, Gay, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, and so on, and you are not Islamic, you are an infidel to them and they must convert or kill you. They don't care if you are an adult, child, or an infant."
If you don't have access to a Jewish religious bookstore, it might be a little difficult. Although I don't understand the language, Hebrew is like a second language to Orthodox Jews.

What you can do is to research on line Soncino Press. This is the book that is used at our synagogue.

There are other sources, but this is the one I found valuable.

It's why I've said here that belief is a matter of faith. As a Christian you need to judge whose statements you will have faith in. With most people it will be a matter of "Here I draw the line. I know enough. Here my faith stands" based on what they know. That may be enough to teach them how to live a moral life which is all that Judaism finds necessary for those not Jewish.

If you explore Judaism and find truth there, the path can be very difficult. It's not like switching between Christian denominations. This is why Judaism discourages converts when belief in Christianity and living a Christian life is enough.

Know what you are strong enough to deal with before you start your search for truth. Know that what i am saying is based on my faith in Judaism and living that life.

Constance, you said:
"Please be specific about if and how those two creeds in particular deviate from the teachings of Jesus. I could not help but notice that some of your scriptural quotes appear to come from the Jehovah's Witnesses bible version."

Galatians 5:9 says "A little leaven leavens all the lump." Jesus provided several illustrations concerning leaven. Accordingly Christianity should be free of all pagan teaching. However, that is not the case. To my knowledge, no Christian religion has completely shed the taint of Roman gods whose influence was codified into the Christian Church by the Nicene Creed. The Apostolic Creed was better, but its influence was filtered through the later Nicene Creed.

Disregarding the textual differences, does your bible translation teach differently on any of the points I've made?

Since this is the Internet, I will not try to please everyone who may object to by bible references. I have quoted from the New World Translation, but not for a few years. If you consider the points of my arguments, I doubt that you will find any significant disagreement with your preferred version.

Realizing that if I'm going to quote the bible, I need a source, I use the Literal Translation of the
HOLY BIBLE, by Jay P. Green Sr.

I don't know J.P. Green, or his religious affiliations, or if he has any, but whether he's a saint or an infidel, his text is as free of bias as any I've seen, and its current enough to benefit from older sources discovered since the KJB.
Constance, it's apparent your prayers for peace have been undermined by the warmongers.

Dorothy obviously has no intentions of backing off in her attack on me. She never treated me as an "honest person" as her first post about me here was clearly defamatory. So is she a liar or just incapable of remembering her own posts?

She now suggests my research may not be original. That's the most calculated, arrogant, ridiculous assumption she's made thus far. My research was subpoened by the King County Superior Court twice in 2000 and 2001. There are 2600 pages of hardcopy evidence that my research about communitarianism is original.

Thomas Wood's bibliography is at

Approved for public release; distribution is unlimited
by Alicia L. Welch, March 2006

For someone who claims to know so little about communitarianism, she is proving herself to be an expert in their disinformation tactics.

First she insults me for not being included in wikpedia, then she says "whoopee" when that claim is proved to be false. Communitarians always want it both ways, it's how they reach their perfect Radical Middle. She has tried to associate my name with the Nazis and the New Age. What will she come up with next? Oh, I guess I can be taken in by her "sound" reasoning. I'm listed next the Atheists on wikipedia, that must mean I'm one of them too.

No wonder the Palestinians cannot negotiate a peace with Dorothy's handlers. Peace to a Zionist means inciting a perpetual global war.

LOL? Whatever.
U.S. Intelligence Official about Israel: “This is just the beginning”

U.S. Intelligence official "breaks silence" on Israel situation"

31 December 2008: Northeast Intelligence Network director Doug Hagmann interviewed a highly-placed U.S. intelligence official late yesterday who not only confirmed rumors about escalated and more intensive Israeli military operations against the Muslim terrorists in Gaza, warned of the increasing probability of abandonment of Israel by the U.S. and other Western countries based on what he termed “malicious intelligence.”

“Remember that term,” advised this well-placed intelligence official, “you’ll be hearing it again.”

“This is just the beginning,” stated this intelligence official, who wished to remain anonymous. This official stated that the possibility for a much more protracted ground war is more likely today than at any other time in the past, adding that Israel is exercising her right to protect herself from her enemies in Gaza. But there is a catch, noted this official, and a big one at that: Israel could be about to lose the support of the United States.

“I have every reason to believe, based on what I’ve seen at my level of [security] clearance especially over the last several years, that Israel will soon be completely on their own… or worse.” When asked what could be worse than losing the support of the United States, he stated: “when our administration provides more support to Arab countries [with] financial and military aid, undercutting Israel’s defense efforts all while pushing Israel to succumb to the pressure of unreasonable demands designed to end with their political annihilation as a nation.”

According to this official, the U.S. has been slowly proceeding down this road. He cited the 2005 surrender of Gush Katif to the Palestinian Authority as one critical example of the slow dismantlement of Israel as a viable nation. “Despite critical intelligence outlining in every possible manner imaginable that this would be a disastrous move leading to the events we are seeing today, it was done anyway,” he stated.

“We are seeing the very scenario play out today that was outlined in intelligence briefs three and four years ago. Knowing that, there is something very wrong with this picture,” he stated.

He added that Western media is also playing a very big role in the current war in the Middle East, thanks, in part, to carefully worded statements prepared by political officials in Washington. Officials in the current administration, like some previous administrations, submit carefully crafted informational releases to a media that is controlled by those having special interests that are contrary to a legitimate peace in the Middle East.

“The game is rigged. At the highest levels of power in the U.S. and even by some in power in Israel, the game is rigged,” he emphasized.

The next obvious question in this interview was, of course, “how is it rigged?” followed by ”how are you in a position to know?”

This official responded by stating that he has spent the last two decades serving in “an unfortunate position where intelligence and politics meet and often collide.” Now, merely days away from retirement, he stated that he is looking forward to leaving his position after conducting over 20 years of intelligence work “that has been molded and massaged to advance the agendas of a select few.”

He continued: “When an intelligence work product that has been thoroughly and properly vetted is submitted to those in Washington, and I see a completely different and entirely inaccurate product intentionally submitted and aired in the media, only to be told ‘that is the way it must be,’ then I know it’s time for me to leave.”

“It is obvious to me that most Americans don’t understand or don’t care what is actually happening in the Middle East relative to Israel. People don’t understand history, or have been subjected to revisionist history based on lies and more lies. Add to that a media that fails to provide an accurate assessment of what is taking place in Israel, in Gaza, and you end up with a very bad situation for Israel,” stated this source. He added that the disinformation coming and going to and from Washington is getting worse, as is the media bias against Israel.

The events currently taking place in Israel are extremely perilous for Israel and especially perilous for the national security of the United States, according to this source. Contrary to the accepted assessments of “Middle East experts” in the news, our intelligence services have “ample evidence to prove active collusion and support between HAMAS and other terrorist organizations, both Sunni and Shite. Further, there is a level of Iranian complicity in this war that is not being talked about, or being dismissed out of hand because of the schism between the Sunni and Shia sects,” stated this source.

TO NIKKI RAAPANA, who writes (among other things, as she furiously cuts and pastes any posts on the internet that mention her name onto her own blog):

No wonder the Palestinians cannot negotiate a peace with Dorothy's handlers. Peace to a Zionist means inciting a perpetual global war.

Sorry, but I cannot take you seriously and each time you post it just gets worse.

Whatever "common sense" you may have been born with seems to have been buried fatally underneath your mountains of research. You do seem quite intelligent and driven which makes it all the more tragic.

The only thing I am wondering about is why you and Bobby are wasting your time at this blog.
Hi Susanna, Your contributions here have always taken an un-apologetic stand when it comes to your personal Orthodox faith. I respect that fact whether or not we are in agreement and I've don't believe you would intentionally be unfair. I would venture to guess, you would generally agree that there are usually at least two sides to a reported story. The event you mention and the video most easily viewed on YOU-TUBE and most anti-missionary sites leave out important tidbits, like what may have happened before Beckford is video-taped attacking the Jewish man. The event being discussed seems to have occurred last March. This video of the event as reported on Haaretz last June included enough information to cause me to look a little deeper. Please take a look at the Haarez video and then a YOU-TUBE video featuring Eddie Beckford and his wife Lura offering a little more information about themselves and their ministry in Arad,Israel. Some commenter's here frequently mention the importance of avoiding the use of disinformation and keeping information credible. (Good advice) My view is before we present one damning piece of evidence as accurate, it's wise to investigate further . I've decided which side I'm willing to trust enough to stand behind, and it's not Samuri Mohel. I appreciate your research and contributions Susanna even though at times I disagree. Happy New Year to you and all the rest who read here. -Rudi

Short piece from Haaretz with video

YOUTUBE VIDEO featuring Eddie Beckford and his wife Lura:

Ministry and Persecution in Arad, Israel

Messianic Jew attacked, wrongly arrested - Mar 14, 2007 Baptist Press report:

Someone in the Chat room last night during Constance's program left this link, saying "Here's the real secret of who's behind communitarianism!"

If you follow the link, you'll discover that this site indicates that it's the JESUITS who are the real power behind communitarianism. Since the Jesuits supposedly are the secret agents that are behind mind control and espionage, according to certain conspiracy theorists, this theory meshes in with what YS just said about intelligence, in her 2:44 comment. It also meshes with Bobby Garner's site and which someone quoted here which said:

"Including the bigots and zealots that helped them get this power, such as Zionists, both Jew and non-Jew, Jesuits and Freemasons."

What a hell broth! We've got the Jews, the non-Jews who support the Jews for a homeland, the Zionists who are everywhere pulling the purse strings, plus the Free Masons and the Jesuits!

Was anyone here left out? Hope no one's feelings were hurt!

On a sober note, does anyone here think this could all be true?

Maybe I'll pop the cork early- I could use a drink. POP!

Happy New Year!

Anonymous coward
Dear Yvonne,

Do you have a link for the "malicious intelligence" interview.

Thank you.

Do you really expect to get a credible answer to your question from a blog that is owned by Jesuit Temporal Coadjutor Cumbey and run by her sidekick from the Metsada?

Anon (3:24)

I'm not sure where Yvonne got the link but I am familiar with Doug Hagmann. His website is:

Hi YS! (waving)
Both links go to "page not found."

Go back to to Start. How about some information showing I have "handlers."

You are so good at making up information that no one should trust what you say without researching it on their own. Isn't it true that the best propaganda is 75 percent truth and 25 percent propaganda?

I'm not saying Communitarianism doesn't exist. You can't claim validity for all of your beliefs based on your presented information on it. If someone says the sky has clouds and then says Abraham Lincoln was born in 1700, it would be stupid to believe everything in between.

Your little Jew hating buddies may think everyone is stupid, but they aren't.


The "malicious intelligence" story is the lead story on Doug Hagmann's website at the moment.

It's been a few years since I've listened to Doug or followed his writings. I have somewhat mixed feelings about him, but I do believe his information is generally very reliable and that he is a true friend of Israel.
"For what its worth, the hypothesis for my research project on the Global Strategic Shift From Empire To Community, stated:
"The next US administration, regardless of party, will promote the Communitarian Philosophy in both foreign and domestic policy in a marked turn away from War On Terrorism."

"I also noted Israel's defeat in Lebanon as signaling the turning point: "Israel's recent defeat in Lebanon established this new direction. It was emphasized with an exclamation point by the US midterm elections in November of 2006...". "

That's a quote from my article CFR Blesses Trilateralist' Control of DC and Their Presidential Choice, dated August 25, 2008.

I'm not psychic, and God doesn't talk to me, but I study and try to apply the results to the big picture.

You are obviously stuck at the Cumbey blog because you are lost and probably disoriented. I know blokes find it difficult to stop and ask for directions, so let me offer you a hand.

I'm sure you can find your way back home from here:
Hi, Bobby Garner. There is a link on the left-hand side of your main page titled Christian Morality under Information Resources. It leads to a website by Gary Novak. He says the books written by Paul are fraudulent and says the following in his bio:
"I was raised a Catholic, but Vatican II destroyed everything of value in Catholicism, so I avoid organized religion. It did that by stripping away the symbols and rituals which defined the meaning. Christ's body on a cross said that humans would murder God for teaching morality and doing good deeds. Without that starting point, supposed Christianity is a sham. To say murdering Christ was a good deed, because it atoned God is to say God is another demon who demands murder as a test of allegiance, which was the only religion of humans for at least five thousand years."

Do you agree with him?

Wishing all of you a Happy and safe New Year! God Bless!

By His Grace,
sorry everyone
the link is
Unwarranted criticism is much easier when one checks his brain at the door. Similar problems with links have been well noted here before.

The link to "Terrorism Awareness and Education as a Prevention Strategy for First Responders" is a pdf document. The posted link seems to be missing the pdf extension.

We may need some input from Niki to correct the other one.
anon (3:38)
why do you have mixed feeling about doug hagmann?

I don't want to get into too much detail about Hagmann on this blog -- my general objection to him is that I have felt unsure about his loyalties. Sometimes he seems far more devoted to capitalizing off the truth than he is to the truth itself. This bothered me so much that I stopped paying attention to his work.

With that said, I learned a lot from him. It is largely down to Doug's insights that I am able to make sense of recent geopolitical movements.
RE: The music discussion...
I listen to KLOVE, but now I cringe every time I hear the Michael W. Smith song "A New Hallelujah", given his endorsing The Shack.

It's important to think about whether *whatever* we're taking in-- music, movies, books, the message on Sunday no matter how much we trust our pastors(!)-- lines up with Scripture. I think the bottom line is asking God to guard our hearts and bring to our attention anything that may hinder our devotion to Him as Lord. As a mother, it is very difficult. I want so much to protect my children!

That's just my 2-cents.

Happy New Year,
To anonymous 3:24

You're right. The only way to get the right answers around here is to figure them out for ourselves! As Dorothy always says, God helps those who help themselves and do their own research! LOL!

Hmmmmmm.... (Scratching head)

It's all starting to make sense now....

Susanna is definitely an undercover agent for the Jesuits,
Dorothy works for the Mossad in her spare time, when not gate-keeping Temporal Coadjutor Cumbey 's blog,
Young Grasshopper designs occultic fractals in her art studio, and is a conduit for the earth’s natural electrons that Tent Lady seeks to reconnect to,
while David in Battle Creek is a trained archeometrist, or labyrinth designer,
Joyce has been brainwashed by the Church of Scientology to proselytize till the end of time,
and Oldmanoftheski is making a good living selling tents, skis and crystals on top of Mt. Shasta, to New Agers as well as those living outside the dialect,
Paul tries to hide the fact that he plays Led Zeppelin music backwards in sweat lodges and Mithraic temples, but Maryanne caught him red- handed while running around in a tutu and Phrygian cap while doing research on the Cult of Reason,
Rudi bakes delicious pastry in her bakery that is garnished with secret ingredients designed to purge the fluoride out of everyone's systems, in the hopes that de-programming is still possible, especially since Sherry Shiner's Orgone blasters didn't work.
Constance, who in addition to being the Temporal Coadjutor is also related by blood to Javier Solana is doing her best to keep track of everyone's IP addresses in her spare time, in spite of an active law practice, which she intends to sell to Brother Eric who's secretly related to Setterman and Todd Bentley.
JD has earned his degree in exorcism from Peter Wagner and is soon to be knighted into the Order of the Knights of Malta, with Rick Warren officiating.
Everyone else can be found curled up by their cozy hearths secretly reading The Shack in order to make their lives more purposeful.

This my friends, is called enlightenment!


Unplug me from the Matrix!

ANON 4:39


Post of the week.

+1 to you
Constance and all,

No need to be jealous, all are welcome in my opinion, and I'm sure David would agree. We could even have a meet and greet lunch after service! lol
to Anonymous 4:39 -- Hope I got the time right -- I wasn't feeling so well, but the rib shaking laughter after that one has the chest considerably clearer.


Interesting link off the Wikipedia article you posted about the Trinity:

You exposed all of us and now I will expose you (snarl snarl). You are the CIA plant working with Javier Solana to keep an eye on all of us at this blog. (snarl snarl)

I know something you don't know. Niki Raapana is really Maitreya. The clue is that she is the new Christmas star at this blog.

Seriously, it was a wonderful piece of writing. You've started off the New Year by making all of us happier. The same to you.


Hi, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner--hadn't even turned on the computer since much earlier today; and just now came to this blogspot.

I paged through the comments/topics to find what I had sent you. Unfortunately, the "tiny" isn't working for me, either.

I went to a "reverse tiny" site, but it pulled up the same non-functioning link that you have (via me).

I'll keep looking. I guess you mean the info. that led up to my comment on the seed germination?

I think from now on I'll regularly post the normal and tiny URLs at the same time.

An aside: we're under a wind advisory here in the East 'till 10:00 pm. Some places toward the west (Viginia mountains) have had gusts of 64 mph. Whew!!! Plenty of branches are down on the ground here. Fortunately, no power outtages!
It is pitiful that you are taking a situation where a Jewish family was reaching out to Arabs with the gospel of Yeshua the Messiah and their son has been gravely wounded. I don't know who Eddie Beckford is, but I do know a bit about this family and they have really exhibited the love of Messiah.
There is a quiet investigation taking place and the family has not publicly accused anyone.

These are people whose son was almost blinded, who suffered third degree burns all over his body, and had metal in his lungs. The family has done nothing but ask for prayer for their son and shown nothing but love and gratitude for those who have reached out to the family in their time of need. The Orthodox neighbors who previously would not talk to the family have come forward to show their support too.

This 15 year old boy has suffered the same kind of attack that many other Jews have suffered at the hands of suicide bombers, but in spite of that the family and people that I know of connected to the situation have done nothing but pray.

Their is also a campaign to discredit Messianics in Israel, so I would be suspicious of the video that you posted.

For those of you on the blog who pray, please continue to pray for this young boy and their family. In spite of all of this they have not fled from the Land. I actually think this is quite amazing to see a Jewish family reaching out with the love of Yeshua to the Arabs, who most people either fear or hate.. This is the true basis for reconciliation. This family lives their beliefs and paid the ultimate price watching their son suffer because of their willingness to obey God.

I pray their would be more families like this in the days in which we live.

In a few days I will be seeing a rabbi friend. If you can sit tight for a few days, I'll give you his recommendation. Dorothy's recommendation may be just fine too, but he mentioned a specific name that he liked.

Blessings for the New Year to you,
O.K. Anonymous 4:39, that was a good one! I guess I'm curled up reading the Shack. =0)
Hi Rudi,

You wrote:

whether or not we are in agreement and I've don't believe you would intentionally be unfair. I would venture to guess, you would generally agree that there are usually at least two sides to a reported story.

Thank you, and you are right. There are usually at least two sides to a reported story.

Moreover, I would like to think that an intelligent person such as yourself would insist on holding everyone here to those same standards of fairness.

You continued....

The event you mention and the video most easily viewed on YOU-TUBE and most anti-missionary sites leave out important tidbits, like what may have happened before Beckford is video-taped attacking the Jewish man.

According to the Baptist Press which I am not inclined to trust uncritically on account of heavy Baptist financing of Jews for Jesus,( the Southern Baptist
Convention's FORMAL affiliation with with more than 30 messianic Jewish congregations called the Southern Baptist Messianic Fellowship, according to a well documented essay on the Religious Tolerance website, (
Beckford reportedly did indeed have a little run in with the Orthodox Jews before the other incident recorded on Youtube.

Messianic evangelist Eddie Beckford was arrested outside his business, the Chess and Bible Shop in Arad, after a mob of ultra-Orthodox Haradim Jews surrounded his van in the parking lot and beat him Feb. 25.

Let me say here that I do not approve of violence of any kind no matter WHO perpetrates it.

Having said that, I would point out that there is nothing in the report about Beckford being taken to a hospital to be treated for any injuries. There are very few details about his injuries period -which leads me to suspect that this story may be partially fabricated. There is only one brief sentence about how Beckford got "beaten up," followed by several paragraphs of whining in which the plight of the Messianics is summed up as follows:

The case essentially is about standing up for the right for Jews in Israel to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, Bass said, though it is not meant in any way to be construed against the state of Israel or against the Jewish people as a whole.

WRONG. The case is essentially about people who are disguising their Christianity as Judaism and lying in order to trick Jews into converting to Christianity.

Don't get me wrong, Rudi. I would be delighted if Jews were converting to Christianity. But not at the expense of denying them a free and fully informed choice in the matter.

I have seen the YOU-TUBE video featuring Eddie Beckford and his wife Lura. Like the Jews, I am not inclined to trust people like Eddie and Lura who have to disguise their Christianity as Judaism and deceive people in order to win converts.

Moreover, what kind of "Christianity" is it that has to be disguised in order to be accepted in the first place?

Does the Bible approve of this sort of thing?

And should we really be surprised if any Jew worth his salt should also be asking "what's wrong with this picture?"


Have a happy, healthy holy new Year.
Dear Rudi,
Thanks for sending that video. First of all those are not Messianics, Eddie Beckford. They are Christians. Having said that, I have heard about this ministry from a member of my family that has visited there and knows about the situation. The Haredi are persecuting them. My family member was actually a witness to this fact.. I didn't connect the name at first.

They are Christians, not Jews. The Haredi can get very rough. There is a Church in Jerusalem shared with Messianics and it has been burned down twice now. This tends to backfire because the Jewish neighbors who know the testimony of the Church in this neighborhood so appreciated them that they helped with the rebuilding.

Not all Israelis act like this. This is the Haredis.


You are absolutely correct.

For months Joyce has posted links about apostate Catholics in a misleading way, along with disinformation and distortions about great ones like St. Ignatius Loyola. She never posts anything positive about the Catholic Church. She repeats herself ad naseum with her criticisms and, often, lies.

Why can't negative information about aspects of the Messianic movement be provided here from time to time? People who read here should be able to follow up on leads and make up their own minds about Messianic Judaism.

Or is this comment section supposed to be a propoganda machine?

Susanna + 1
i came here because I was invited by Constance to share my knowledge and expertise on communiarianism. I don't recall her inviting me here to become a punching bag. So yes, I'll go now because there is really no point in arguing with religious fanatics of any creed. Thanks for the lesson in Christian ethics.

Are these friends of yours Dorothy?

U.S. man pleads guilty to acting as agent for Israel

Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:31pm EST

By Daniel Trotta and Randall Mikkelsen

NEW YORK/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An 85-year-old former U.S. Army employee pleaded guilty on Tuesday to acting as an unregistered agent of Israel and admitted he gave classified documents to the Jewish state in the 1980s.

Court documents show the defendant, Ben-Ami Kadish, reported to the same handler as Jonathan Pollard, an American who spied for Israel in the 1980s and triggered a scandal that rocked U.S.-Israeli relations.

Kadish's plea indicates the Israeli spy network that obtained U.S. nuclear secrets through Pollard spread further than previously acknowledged.

It comes as the Bush administration considers a new request by Pollard for a commutation of his life sentence.

Prosecutors say Ben-Ami Kadish provided classified documents, including some relating to U.S. missile defense systems, to an Israeli agent, Yosef Yagur, who photographed the documents at Kadish's residence.

Yagur was one of Pollard's handlers, according to court documents.

From 1980 to 1985, Yagur asked Kadish to obtain classified documents, which Kadish retrieved from the U.S. Army's Picatinny Arsenal in Dover, New Jersey, according to Kadish's sworn statement.

Pollard, a former U.S. Navy intelligence analyst, is serving life in prison term after pleading guilty to spying for Israel in 1986. His case has led Jews in the United States and Israel to plea for clemency and a new request by Pollard is under Bush administration review.

Israel gave Pollard citizenship in 1996 and acknowledged he was one of its spies in 1998.

Though the United States and Israel are close allies, the Pollard case revealed how the thirst for intelligence trumped that friendship.

Kadish, a Connecticut-born U.S. citizen, faces a maximum of five years in prison at his February 13 sentencing in federal court in Manhattan but it is possible he will not serve any time.

Sentencing guidelines call for a maximum of six months and prosecutors said they would not oppose a sentence without jail time, according to his plea agreement.

He had been free on bail since shortly after his arrest in April on four counts of conspiracy and espionage as a result of an investigation that began in 2005.

The Israeli embassy had no immediate comment.

Kadish used his security clearance to borrow 50 to 100 classified documents from the arsenal's library, including some "concerning nuclear weaponry" and others relating to a modified version of an F-15 fighter jet that the United States had sold to an unidentified country, the complaint said.

A third pertained to the U.S. Patriot missile air defense system.

(Writing by Daniel Trotta; Editing by Vicki Allen)

© Thomson Reuters 2008 All rights reserved
So I was at Target yesterday using some Christmas gift cards. Since I am a product junkie I gravitated to the aisle with all of the soaps and such.

One bottle caught my eye and I couldn't discern what the soap was for. It was called Dr. Bronner's magic soap.
There was so much writing on the bottle that I couldn't figure out what to do with it. I thought it looked fairly cool and almost bought a bottle just for the novelty of it.
But as I began reading some of the small print that covered the label and just about dropped the bottle!
Talk about New Age mumbo jumbo! The whole label is basically covered with NA propaganda. It sounds like a crazy man's rants.

Here is the link. I'm not sure how to do a tiny link but I'll try to get it all on here for those who are interested.

YS 2:44pm

This is a very frightening and sad situation.

Anon 1:51pm
Ditto on the sad and triple the frightening. This coupled with the UK instituting Sharia law in September is unimaginable.

(I'm sure this was already covered.)

On the Venus / moon thing. I can only begin to imagine what the occult are doing this night. The crescent moon with the disc, star or circle is found in the occult religions and even some mainstream ones as well. That symbolism coupled with it being New Year's Eve, one hesitates to imagine.

Like Islam (I'm not knocking Muslims, I have a very dear friend who is) uses the crescent moon and the star. And so the Shriners and other groups.

the circle with a dot, it is included in The Element Encyclopedia of Secret Signs and Symbols by Adele Nozedar. To summarize the dot is beginning and ending (and everything in between), Ultimate Deity, a seed, the point of origin or creation, in the bindhu (Absolute) and marks what is believed to be the seat of the soul or the third eye.

Circle, cosmos and spirit, the unification of spirit and matter, indestructible strength, unbroken strength and equality (as in a round table).

In astrlogical terms the two together represent the sun, but putting together a combination of the two definitions it's almost an endless array of occultic meaning.

Here is another link to occult symbols (other than crossroad)
Bye Bye Niki.

Enjoy your life in secular-humanist-syncretist-walla-walla-whatever land.
P.S. Niki, you need to grow a thicker skin.
This comment has been removed by the author.
The story behind the company is extremely interesting as the family is Jewish and had quite a journey to the States. It looks like one of the family was/is a Zionist and still resides in Israel.
I am VERY pro-Israel (just to clarify).

I don't remember even seeing that link, but here is an even more interesting one.
By the way, I just found this site about a movie on the end times that is coming out in 2009

It doesn't appear scriptural at all and looks like another attempt to mislead Christians. The film maker is trying to make the case for a common theme among all religions based on a code he will reveal in his movie. The site is flashy, so I'm guessing the movie is also well financed. These attempts seem to be coming fast and furious from all directions now. Must be a sign that the end is getting closer.
Re: the soap product
Check out the "7th" along the left...
"Think and act 10 years ahead. And the man without fault? He's dead!"

Although I'm not a catholic but:

"The doctrine of the Trinity is not a result of mere speculation, nor a theory of hypothesis spun by theologians out of their own fancies, still less, as some eminent writers would maintain, the result of the importation of Greek metaphysics into Christian theology….

***The triune conception of God is justified, when it is shown to be the conception which underlies the triune revelation God has given of himself, and the triune activity in the work of redemption" (Dr.James Orr the Christian view of God and the world p.303-304)***

Oooh that's a juicy one! I didn't see that. Wow!
They just don't get it, do they?!

"One day every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."

Found it!
Here's the link (long one) to the pyramid and seed generation site.

Hope you can generate some further research from this.

By the way--Happy New Year.
According to Yahoo News, the worlds anointed are concerned Big Cheese Warren, may utter the J word!!!

Blessed New Year to all here!!!
Dorothy 1:55pm

Thank you for your nice reply. I am not considering converting to Judaism (no offense intended). I am secure in my faith in Jesus. I do however know that Judaism is the basis, the foundation, the origin of my Christian faith. I think having a complete (impossible I know) understanding of the Jewish faith, life, history, language would both enhance my Christian faith, my relationship with God. I don't think it is a requirement, but certainly beneficial. I also think it would help me to better understand what the New Age is opposing (or trying to abolish) in terms of our respective religions. That and like I've expressed before, I think I miss allot reading in English, no matter what the translation or version used.

Thank you for your references and taking the time to answer.

I admire anyone, regardless of their faith, who actually practices that faith to a high degree of, for lack of a better word, accuracy. This to me has been a crucial problem amongst Christians, myself very much included, we are very lacking in our walk, but never seem to be in our talk. I'm not speaking about all Christians, or anyone here. Just generally and historically, we've been undisciplined compared to many faiths. That doesnt' make me doubt it's truth, just the commitment of those who claim they belong.

Dear Anonymous Coward 3:13 P.M.

ROTFLOL What manner of "dinosaur" would still be naming "the Jesuits" as chief among the co-conspirators who are secretly hatching all manner of "New World Order" plot?

Especially when there are more "fashionable" candidates to choose from such as Opus Dei or the Knights Templar, who, according to Umberto Ecco in his book Foucault's Pendulum are somehow "connected to everything!" LOL

Anonymous 4:39 P.M.

You wrote:

Susanna is definitely an undercover agent for the Jesuits,

Now you're just kissing up!!! ;-)
Sorry, JD. I didn't realize you're from BC. Chapel Hill UMC is right off of Riverside Dr on Chapel Hill Dr. Anyone is welcome to join us, although I think I'm suppose to go to my in-laws after church.

David in B.C.
Hey everyone,

Just wanted to let you know that I went to the beach tonight before sunset and Venus was very prominently displayed in the sky in the daylight before the sun had set.

I took pictures and put them up in my blog, but be warned that you'll have to click on the pictures in order to enlarge then enough to see Venus clearly.

It'll be interesting to see if Maitreya appears in a week.

Thanks so much for finding that link again!

Constance, and others,
Glad I enlightened you all!

I'm done blogging for awhile- back hurts again, but....

Happy New Year everyone!

Link to my blog:
I don't lie. I treated you as an honest person when I replied to your single sentence note to me asking "Who are you?" after I questioned what was going on at News With Views. I wrote a long answer of who I was to you. It was after that exchange that I became aware of your network.

You say you are exposing the Communitarianism network. Well, I've been showing your network.

Dear Niki,

"Do not give that which is holy to the dogs, nor throw your pearls before the pigs, that they should not trample them with their feet, and turning they charge you." - Matthew 7:6

This is bible scripture that these swine claim to live by. The same text promises that they will reap what they have sown.

Let us see who is willing to obey this command:
"And whoever will not receive you, nor will hear your words, having gone out of that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. Truly I say to you, It will be more bearable to the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in Judgment Day than for that city. ¶ Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore, be wise as serpents and harmless as doves." - Matthew 10:14-16

Will it be the saints, or the sinner?

Jesus said to the gatekeepers: "Truly I say to you, The tax collectors and the harlots go before you into the kingdom of God." - Matthew 21:31
Anonymous 8:02

You are correct re: the Trinity. The Trinity, moreover is the central doctrine of authentic Christianity.

Before he fell into the error of Montanism in his later years, it was Tertullian who first coined the actual words "Trinity" and "Persons" to refer to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

The Trinity proper was revealed by Our Lord Himself when He instructed the Apostles:

Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Matthew 28:19

The following site is Catholic, but scroll down to the section entitled "proof of doctrine from Scripture."
Hi Suzette:

If you live anywhere near the Detroit area maybe we could go spy out the Deep Pit Cobra a/k/a Deepak Chopra event together. It is, unfortunately happening a mile from where I live. In fact if Deep Pit knew I was coming, he might even take a page from Benjamin Creme's book and chicken out.

Creme never came back to detroit even though it was here he had the biggest audience he ever had in the uSA to the best of my present knowledge.

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