Thursday, December 04, 2008

DENNIS CUDDY WILL BE INTERVIEWED ON MY PERSPECTIVE 8 PM EASTERN TIME BY SARAH LESLIE!


Dear Friends:


The doctors have told my husband that his procedures today went well -- he can even go home tonight, BUT, not until 8:30 p.m. Eastern time which runs right into my THEMICROEFFECT.COM showtime. Sarah Leslie always does a brilliant and capable job of guest hosting for me and tonight she will be interviewing Dennis Cuddy. Those are TWO SUPERSTARS so tune in, stay tuned, and God willing, I'll be back on the air next Tuesday night. Thank you for your prayers for my husband, Barry!


Constance

Comments: 1 – 200 of 376 Newer› Newest»
Thanks be to God.
 
Fulfilledprophecy.com has some extremely important news about the European Union and Israel. This is where I first came in: On November 22, 1995, the morning I awoke to Dr. Solana, he had signed a treaty on behalf of the EU and WEU with Israel only two days earlier. Two days later, the morning I awoke, Israel suffered what was said to be its strongest earthquake ever, 7.2.

Looks like more political earthquakes. Here's a tinyurl to the article referenced on fulfilledprophecy.com

http://tinyurl.com/66yv47

Constance
 
What a fascinating interview Sarah had with Dnnnis Cuddy tonight!

It was literally packed with valuable information from: David Rockefeller, Rhodes Scholars (like Bill Clinton), LBJ, the power elite, Nazism, the real story behind the Civil War, how and why jobs are being outsourced overseas, etc.

Hope to hear expanded versions of these various subjects on future Tuesday and Thursday nights.
 
From Reuters (12/03/08):

Italian president and media baron Silvio Berlusconi said today that he would use his country's imminent presidency of the G8 group to push for an international agreement to "regulate the internet".

Speaking to Italian postal workers, Reuters reports Berlusconi said: "The G8 has as its task the regulation of financial markets... I think the next G8 can bring to the table a proposal for a regulation of the internet."

Italy's G8 presidency begins on January 1. The role is taken by each of the group's members in rotation. The holder country is responsible for organizing and hosting the G8's meetings and setting the agenda. Italy's last G8 presidency in 2001, also under Berlusconi, was marred by riots at the annual meeting in Genoa.

Berlusconi didn't explain what he meant by "regulate the internet", but the mere mention of it has prompted dismay among Italian commentators. Berlusconi owns swathes of the Italian mass media.
 
Our internet and phone service was out since early this morning. I was very disappointed to realize I had missed Dennis Cuddy and Sarah on the program tonight. I plan to watch it when it becomes available in the archived programs.
Constance, I am happy and thankful to hear the procedure went smoothly for your husband Barry and to know he is on the road to recovery.
You are both in my prayers. -Rudi
 
CANADA
Winning an election may not be important these days. Shenanigans, revolutions and judges can overturn the will of the people. In Kenya Odinga became a co-ruler after he lost the election. Obama helped. The governor of the state of Washington came to power after shenanigans similar to what is happening in Minnesota. Now the story is in Canada.

http://tinyurl.com/6khll2
Canada Faces Prospect of an Unelected Government

And guess who is happy about the left staging a coup in Canada.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/061142.html
"They just had a press conference with the leader of the new Liberal coalition and he said that they have now talked with president elect Obama and he is very happy to hear of the possiblity of an upcoming regime change. "

Dorothy
 
Constance,
Glad to hear that your husband is doing better. That is an answer to prayer..

As for the whole business on Israel and EU, the EU stated that it was their intention to play a bigger role in the ME peace process several years ago when US started losing credibility on the world stage because of Iraq. At the time they planned on using the EU Neighborhood Policy and the Barcelona Process to play a bigger role... I heard this in 2005 and it seems like they are on track. The Mediterranean Union is just a repackaged Barcelona Process.

Today, we have settlers being kicked out of the Biblical burial place of Abraham and Sarah, and they are making the Jews look like the bad guys. Not that the Jewish settlers are always perfect, but that's not the point..The point is it's their God-given land. God decides we don't.. Islam would like to usurp all the Biblical holy places because behind Islam is an anti-messiah spirit.

Europe is much further along than America in rejecting the Word of God. America is following in EU's footsteps as biblical ideas toward marriage, life and death, Israel are undermined. Europe has never really been much of a friend to Israel or the Jews when you think about it...the pogroms, the Inquisition, the Holocaust, centuries and centuries of antisemitism. Even the brand of Christianity which preaches replacement theology ( i.e. Israel blew it and the Church is the new Israel).

When the Word of God is rejected, it will result in disaster...this is the bottom line, because He will not be mocked:

Rev. 19:15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

Here's what we need to remember as the days get tough:

Rev. 12:17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

The woman is Israel..and Satan knows that God is restoring Israel, so this is the real root of antisemitism and anti-zionism, which is the new form of anti-semitism that we see particularly in Islam.

Rev. 20:4 ¶ Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Just as the Beast system wants to place a "mark" on us, God wants us to be sealed with the testimony of Yeshua and obeying His Torah. Obedience is the outcome of our being saved, not the reverse. We can't obey in our own strength. We need to have the Torah written on our hearts which is impossible without Yeshua.

Our battle is won with the Word of God, not by power or might. I was in the book of Joshua and when Ancient Israel took Jericho and Ai, it's because the Lord gives them victory, but only when they obeyed. When they disobeyed and took forbidden things...they began to lose the battle.

We need to be sure there is no sin in our midst and walk according to God's word in faith to get through these days victoriously.

After the great victory Joshua carved Torah into stones again. This is the pattern we are given to follow except that we need to have it written on our hearts.. There will be instructions for us that we need in these last days and we will only find them in God's Word.

This is not to minimize the news coming out, but on the contrary to focus our attention on the one who has the power to keep us in the days in which we live. If I don't constantly refer back to God's Word, I would be overwhelmed with the news that's coming out.. I need to constantly remember

Is. 24:21-22 So it will happen in that day,
That the LORD will punish the host of heaven on high,
And the kings of the earth on earth.
They will be gathered together
Like prisoners in the dungeon,
And will be confined in prison;
And after many days they will be punished.

God is not sleeping.. He will do what He promised..This encourages me in the midst of difficult days.

Joyce
 
Reality twisting, crossing the line...

Although the subject was discussed here previously, (ie. Project Bluebeam), it may be a good idea to keep our guard up and refresh our memories re the fact that what we see may not be real.

Football fans are accustomed to seeing the computer generated first down line...a line which does not exist in reality but which has become a staple of every televised game. Yet few are aware that CBS NEWS has been using the same technology in real time (live video feeds) for nearly a decade. The ability to "edit" (remove) live news story backgrounds that depict any sign of the opposition's (i.e. NBC's) logo has proven too tempting for corporate executives to ignore.

Almost nine years old now, the original MIT Technology Review article "Lying with Pixels", is still very much worth the read.

http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/12115/page1/
 
Dear OldManOfTheSki,
I was just watching this video the other day from LiveLeak.com.
Although you can clearly make a distinction, at this juncture, that what you're seeing isn't real, but just like CGI, it'll start appearing more realistic very soon.
Link to video-
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=141_1228120924
or-
http://tinyurl.com/6lh6lw

-SV
 
Update on Barry:

When they removed the dressings, there was unexpected bleeding, so he had to spend the night at the hospital. I understand, however, he is approved for discharge today.

Thanks to all for your encouragement and prayers!

Constance
 
This touches a bit on the food availability topic of a previous thread, but is very serious.

http://tinyurl.com/59fxfb

"Presumably Manna Storehouse might eventually be charged with running a retail establishment without a license. Why then the Gestapo-type
interrogation for a 3rd degree misdemeanor charge? This incident has raised the ominous specter of a restrictive new era in State regulation and enforcement over the nation’s private food supply.

This same type of abusive search and seizure was reported by those
innocents who fell victim to oppressive federal drug laws passed in the 1990s. The present circumstance raises the obvious question: is there some rabid new interpretation of an existing drug law that considers food a controlled substance worthy of a nasty SWAT operation? Or worse,
is there a previously unrecognized provision(s) pertaining to food in
the Homeland Security measures? Some have suggested that it was merely an out-of-control, hot-to-trot ODA agent, and, if so, this would be a best-case scenario. Anything else might spell the beginning of the end for the freedom to eat unregulated and unmonitored food."

I'm still looking for any verification or more information, but I heard a remark (several months ago) on a video in passing that part of the UN plans would (eventually) manage/limit home gardens.

sarah
 
Url link to the archived interview? I also want a link to the interview on Fractals a week or two ago...
any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Pete
 
Could someone help me with the "tinyurl"?
I used to be able to get these, now I can't - they come up as error.
 
More on Bluebeam - some hoistory and trappings included.

http://mediamonarchy.blogspot.com/2008/12/project-bluebeam-tv-fakery-holographic.html

DouginMI
 
Pete-
Here are some of the links shared in the chat-room during the
November 18th “My Perspective” program when Constance interviewed
Sarah Leslie (Herescope blog) on the topic of fractals. The program interview is archived

http://www.themicroeffect.com/archive.htm

Note: There is a subscription fee to listen to Micro Effect Archives

www.fractalwisdom.com/

http://www.fractal.org/Bewustzijns-Besturings-Model/Fractality.pdf

www.futureworld.org/Archives/xstaff.html

This 3 minute You Tube video features Dr. Bruce Lipton – one of many “internationally recognized authorities” whose focus is on “bridging science and spirit” His bio is found on the second link below. There are other “fractal” information videos available at the link.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GaB1VMAXPQ

http://www.brucelipton.com/about


Hi Cindy- Not sure what the problem could be with the tinyurl.
This is where I “create” mine:

http://tinyurl.com/

Sometimes the information itself disappears, “now-you-see-it-now-you-don’t” and that's the reason the tiny won't work.
Generally I post the full url along with the tiny so if the tiny doesn’t work for whatever reason
we’ve got something to go on for a second try. Are you saying some of the tiny urls
we put in our comments don’t work when you try to use them? That’s the way I understood your question.
If that’s the case drop a comment to the person who posted the link and ask them for further
Information. -Rudi
 
Sarah-
(11:33)

Funny you should say that. What with all that I'm watching on the world situation; and the speed with which it's moving--I started planning on expanding my backyard garden after the last crops (turnips) were pulled about 4 weeks ago.

I've begun reading up on canning and on the different type of freeze-dried survival packages.

Ideally, I'd like to can a lot of the usual backyard stuff (tomatoes, beans, etc.) and dehydrate or freeze any other foodstuffs.

My family still rolls their eyes in laughing exasperation at me, since I'm a victim of the seed and flower catalogues that tempt a too-willing, winter-weary gardener in the early spring. I've still got some seed packages that are probably 3 years old, now.

Don't know if they'll still sprout; but, knowing of Monsanto's upcoming seed stranglehold, I think I'll hold onto them just in case. I also planted a lot of "regular" and heirloom tomatoes this year. We had a bumper crop (of everything, not just tomotoes).

Too bad you can't dry or can things like lettuce or cucumbers!
 
Hi Jolo0.sa

Yeah, what to do with all the free fertilizer I have! I've decided to make more of an investment in heirloom seeds this season, so I'm waiting for those catalogs to arrive. Water could be a big problem for us, and another leverage option for the powers-that-be, to control we-the-people.

My brother is a thankful recipient of much I learn here and elsewhere, and he speculated that we would still be able to eat fish, but if the "re-wilding of America" powers have any say, fisherman will probably be barred from river and lake access, not to mention the lack of restocking that is taking place, courtesy of articles that oldman posted on a previous thread.

*sigh*

sarah
 
After reading a couple of comments regarding the notion of the North American Union as being a myth, I am now thinking that instead of it being a myth, that it is more of a rumor with some truth to it. Maybe it's like the telephone game and you don't know how far from the truth the original message end up being.

I think Dorothy put it in perspective with he comment on "word games." These "word games" are like a slight of hand. I don't know if a North American Union as rumored will come to pass, especially the part about a superhighway from the Yucatan to the Yukon. I believe that something is in the works. The U.S. is headed to join the global new world order in some fashion. I think our current economic situation will leave us no choice. I think our current president will be a willing participant. Oh, I meant president-elect.
 
I have a copy of the signed documenrts for the NAU (or SPP - OR whatever name they would like to call it today).
It is not a myth - it is available is printed format for all to digest.
If I remember correctly JD as wellas Dorothy also have info regarding this.

DouginMI
 
OBAMA WATCH
This is the latest out of the Obama camp. I believe we need to watch as this may portend mob psychology in action. A friend passed it on to me and I thought I'd make others aware.
-------
This is the latest e from Obama -

Friend --

http://my.barackobama.com/page/m2/55c13ebd/501b889d/da83861/11884d15/2308386766/VEsH/ Exactly one month ago, you made history by giving all Americans a real opportunity for change.

Now it's time to start preparing and working for change in our communities.

On December 13th and 14th, supporters are coming together in every part of the country to reflect on what we've accomplished and plan the future of this movement. Your ideas and feedback will be collected and used to guide this movement in the months and years ahead.

Join your friends and neighbors -- sign up to host or attend a Change is Coming house meeting near you.

Since the election, the challenges we face -- and our responsibility to take action -- have only gotten more urgent.

You can connect with fellow supporters, make progress on the issues you care about, and help shape the future of your community and our country.

Learn what you can do now to support President-elect Obama's agenda for change and continue to make a difference in your community.

Take the first important step by hosting or attending a Change is Coming house meeting. Sign up right now:

http://my.barackobama.com/changeiscoming

To get our country back on track, it will take all of us working together.

Barack and Joe have a clear agenda and an unprecedented opportunity for change. But they can't do it alone.

Will you join us at a house meeting and help plan the next steps for this movement?

Thanks,

David

David Plouffe
Campaign Manager
Obama for America

Comment: Open the links for detailed information on how the meetings are to be run, the issues to be covered, etc.

Dorothy
 
Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081205/ap_on_bi_ge/farm_scene_cow_tax_2

MONTGOMERY, Ala. – For farmers, this stinks: Belching and gaseous cows and hogs could start costing them money if a federal proposal to charge fees for air-polluting animals becomes law.

Farmers so far are turning their noses up at the notion, which is one of several put forward by the Environmental Protection Agency after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2007 that greenhouse gases emitted by belching and flatulence amounts to air pollution.

the above excerpt is from a story carried on Drudge. I thought this am when I read it of the talk on this site for awhile about the government controlling the food supply.
 
Hollywood and the New Age

1) In the Barbara W. special last night she interviewed Will Smith. In the segment she said he is starting his own church that will accept all religions.

http://tiny.cc/fvDRp

2) Several months ago I had a short essay called, "Does Grey's Anatomy have a Secret?" It was about how the show promoted the New Age and especially the Secret mentality. The last episode the residents were competing for the first solo surgery. One of the residents said, "Go ahead and use the Secret and will yourself in the Operating Room..."
 
This was on Drudge a few days ago. Since no one mentioned it, I thought I would. However, I don't know how long the story will be online. Maybe it was an honest accident...

Doctor killed in mysterious elevator shaft fall


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/12/03/MNVE14GCD6.DTL

The doctor took Arabic lessons. He often protested on behalf of Israel. But the day he fell down the shaft "accidently", the classes were cancelled, but for some reason, he didn't get word about the cancellation.
 
Anon @3:30

When will we all pay a "fee" for breathing? After all, it's CO2 also...

sarah
 
Sara and Jolo0.sa,

Your timing is impeccable. Both the coop article and the Monsanto (seed)issue has just come up in a group of friends. Thanks for your input.

Deannie

BTW, have any of you seen this CNBC interview of Jim Rogers where he says the Fed andbankers are getting ready to launch an inflationary apocalyse on dollar holders?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4dNtbT_u8
 
Has anyone noticed Rick Warren's moves lately?

Make sure you check out Slice of Laodicea for his latest antics. She has links to articles and interviews.

Deannie
 
Thursday, December 20, 2007
The Annapolis Earthquake


"Earthquakes shake Israel during Annapolis summit, as rabbis remind the people there is a biblical precedent for such divine judgment.

By Aviel Schneider & Shlomo Mordechai

As the nations of the earth gathered in Annapolis to divide Israel’s God-given inheritance, there were rumblings here at home—literally. In a highly unusual event, four minor earthquakes struck Israel in the two weeks surrounding the “peace” conference.

Israel’s top rabbis said it is a sign from God."

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=128&view=item&idx=1647
 
FYI --

I saw the movie, "Australia" this afternoon. It's a beautiful 3 hour movie, but I would like to warn everyone about the heavy theme of New Age mysticism and magic throughout.
 
Regards the charge for animal gases -- what about the human purveyors of these schemes --usually vegetarians eating lots of beans with flatulence and the usual air pollution attached . . . let's charge them BIG TIME TOO -- see how soon they back off this scheme!
 
To Anonymous (1:43 PM)

North American Union to Replace USA? by Jerome R. Corsi (05/19/06)

President Bush is pursuing a globalist agenda to create a North American Union, effectively erasing our borders with both Mexico and Canada. This was the hidden agenda behind the Bush administration's true open borders policy.

Secretly, the Bush administration is pursuing a policy to expand NAFTA politically, setting the stage for a North American Union designed to encompass the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. What the Bush administration truly wants is the free, unimpeded movement of people across open borders with Mexico and Canada.

President Bush intends to abrogate U.S. sovereignty to the North American Union, a new economic and political entity which the President is quietly forming, much as the European Union has formed.

The blueprint President Bush is following was laid out in a 2005 report entitled "Building a North American Community" published by the left-of-center Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR report connects the dots between the Bush administration's actual policy on illegal immigration and the drive to create the North American Union:

At their meeting in Waco, Texas, at the end of March 2005, U.S. President George W. Bush, Mexican President Vicente Fox, and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin committed their governments to a path of cooperation and joint action. We welcome this important development and offer this report to add urgency and specific recommendations to strengthen their efforts.

For more details, click on:
www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965
 
OBAMA WATCH
Those familiar with the Saul Alinsky tactics which Obama and his followers use know how the tactics work. It's standard. People are asked to come together to pick the idea that interests them most and work on it. Alinsky well-trained organizers then spin the meeting and take the group to pre-determined goals. Unless one has experienced this kind of group meeting, it is difficult to understand how slick the changeover is.

By going to the Change site you can learn where there are groups meeting in your area.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/group?source=sidenav

Find an event near you
http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/search_simple

Dorothy
 
dorothy
That appears to be a play of power since the electorial college is set to finish their voting on the 15th as well.To show the whole country is behind him.
YS

Also there are new changes to the Marshall Laws list and one of them is to stop the home gardener.
 
Dawn,
3:40

A couple of months back, I posted to Constance about a mammoth book on Hollywood and the NA.

The author's TOC was so deeply researched, it was scary. He was fully aware of the NA and Lucis Trust, etc. tendrils in many Hollywood storylines and actors and directors.

Unfortunately, I tried to go back and find the post, and couldn't.

On top of that, I'm using a different laptop than the one I posted with then--so, if I saved the page, it's on that laptop.

The book, if I remember correctly, was about 400pp. with extensive footnotes.

On another tangent, I also ran across the collected papers of Dr. Solana's mother. They were in the private collection of a university professor--I think, in Spain.

That would probably be interesting reading. I'll try and go back to find the posting about the Hollywood link.

I was tempted to buy the book, myself--but you know how many of us have pointed out here, that you need to have the gifts of discernment and wisdom on knowing when to access certain obviously evil material, or not?

Well, when this was posted, the Spirit gave me the discernment and wisdom that I was to leave it alone, at that point.

I always think that any advice from Him is to be followed.

I'll go back and look. I'd recommend it to everyone here. Just pray for protection and the whole armor of God before reading!

Jolo0.sa (Joan)
 
YS,

"Also there are new changes to the Marshall Laws list and one of them is to stop the home gardener."

Do you have an available link?

Thanks in advance -
sarah
 
JOY AND PEACE IN BELIEVING
-Poem by John Newton-

"1. Sometimes a light surprises
The Christian while he sings;
It is the Lord who rises
With healing in his wings:
When comforts are declining,
He grants the soul again
A season of clear shining,
To cheer it after rain.

2. In holy contemplation,
We sweetly then pursue
The theme of God's salvation,
And find it ever new:
Set free from present sorrow,
We cheerfully can say,
E'en let th' unknown to-morrow
Bring with it what it may.

3.It can bring with it nothing
But he will bear us through;
Who gives the lilies clothing,
Will clothe his people too:
Beneath the spreading heavens,
No creature but is fed;
And he who feeds the ravens,
Will give his children bread.

4.Though vine nor fig-tree neither
Their wonted fruit shall bear,
Though all the field should wither,
Nor flocks nor herds be there:
Yet God the same abiding,
His praise shall tune my voice;
For while in him confiding,
I cannot but rejoice."

*Just a brief respite; a calm from the storms of this life.
As I read this poem today it brought me joy and I gave thanks to my Heavenly Father who is in control of all things even when it appears as though the world is out of control.
Thought I'd share it. May it bless you too.
-SV
 
This is the first time I've seen the major media cover the lawsuits surrounding Obama's citizenship:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/12/05/arena.obama.citizenship.cnn

They did not really cover the details of the story and dismissed the idea that this could go anywhere by saying there's no "clear definition of natural born citizen" and the Supreme Court would not overturn the will of the people. As for issues surrounding a false birth certificate, him lying about his birthplace as well as the fact that he may have been forced to renounce US citizenship when he was a student in Indonesia, CNN decided those details could be left out...

For more detail, see the Philip Berg site:

http://www.obamacrimes.com/

It's always interesting to see what the mainstream media deems worthy of reporting...

Joyce
 
Woo Hoo - we just got an earthquake!!
A 5.5 near Barstow, CA

sarah
 
Joan-
I did several google searches of this site and could only find the one back in August where you said that you posted it about a month prior.

I will try to look again tomorrow when I am not so tired.
 
From Reuters (12/05/08)

Several attackers may have survived the three-day siege of Mumbai that killed 171 people last week, analysts said on Thursday.

"I think there are more. My sources say (there were) at least 23 of the gunmen," said Farhana Ali, a former CIA and Rand Corp counter terrorism analyst and expert on militant networks. Ali, who most recently visited India and Pakistan last month before the attacks, said her information came from Pakistan, but declined to further identify the source.

"If that's true, that makes one wonder why we haven't seen more attacks. Are they lying low?" she said "I think they (Indian authorities) are bracing themselves for more," she said.

David Kilcullen, who has served as a senior counter terrorism adviser to U.S. Gen. David Petraeus and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, said he agreed that were probably more attackers.

They equipped themselves with fake identification and wore Western clothes with clean-shaven faces, indicating they probably did not view the attack as a suicide operation, Kilcullen said. "The fact that they lost nine out of 10 identified attackers killed doesn't necessarily indicate that it was intended to have all those people dying," he said.

"The Indians said there were 10 attackers, based on the fact that they captured one and killed nine -- you have to assume there are more out there," he said.

He noted, however, that there was no short-term follow-up attack on a target such as a hospital treating victims -- a characteristic of some Iraqi insurgent strikes.

The fighters had high-level professional training, Kilcullen said. They entered the city by sea, launched diversionary strikes, and seized two hotels and a Jewish center, where they held off authorities and rampaged for three days.

"A Seal team would have had trouble mounting this operation," Kilcullen said, referring to U.S. Navy commandos regarded as among the most skilled special forces.
 
From Telegraph.co.uk (12/05/08)

Mumbai attacks: Indian operative 'helped Pakistani militants'

A Pakistani militant group used an Indian operative as far back as 2007 to scout targets for the elaborate plot against India's financial capital, authorities have said.

The discovery is a blow to Indian officials who have blamed the deadly attacks entirely on Pakistani extremists.

India has blamed elements within Pakistan of carrying out the attacks. New Delhi has said the Kashmiri terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which operates from bases near Lahore, had planned and executed the attack.

But the organizational network appeared to stretch far beyond Pakistan and was reliant on help from within India and its eastern neighbour, Bangladesh.

A card was registered in the name of Hussain Ur Rehman, a resident of a district on the border with Bangladesh.
 
This has far reaching applications into the ID systems.

http://tinyurl.com/3b4f53

DouginMI
 
Yes, Hold onto your heirloom seeds it is getting harder and harder to find non-hybid seeds, at least that is what we are experiencing.

Came upon this article & thought it fit in nicely with the home garden (Sarah & Jolo) and past bee concern (Rudi) posts.

You'll find the whole article informative.

HOME GARDENS: “Genetically Modified Foods are causing food allergies, health problems, chromosomal disorders and cancer.

Renowned geneticist Dr. Mae-Wan Ho states[3]“Genetic engineering bypasses conventional breeding by using artificially constructed, parasitic, genetic elements, including viruses, as vectors to carry and smuggle genes into cells. Once inside cells, these vectors slot themselves into the host genome. The insertion of foreign genes into the host genome has long been known to have many harmful and fatal effects including cancer of the organism.”

The U.S. government does not require labeling of genetically modified foods. Thus American citizens are unable to avoid eating dangerous GMO food. GMO foods have fewer calories than normal food. Farmers have learned they can feed GMO food to animals if they want to thin them.”

"Approximately 80 % of world food crops are pollinated by honeybees. Two million honeybee colonies have been lost in the USA in recent years.

• Supermarkets have only a three-day supply of products on their shelves. High transportation costs have made these stores more vulnerable to shortages of food.

• Ethanol Production is not economic and has removed large amounts of corn from the marketplace. This has increased the cost of producing cattle, hogs, and chicken."

BEE’S: "An article in Natural News by David Gutierrez on September 30, 2008 has linked the bee die-off in the Baden-Wurttemburg state of Germany to direct contact with the insecticide clothianidin found on corn seeds (German Research Center for Cultivated Plants).

This pesticide had been applied to rapeseed and sweet corn seeds in the Rhine River Valley. Piles of dead bees were discovered at the entrance of hives in early May 2008. Clothianidin was found in the tissues of 99% of the dead bees. The Julius Huehn Institute(federal agricultural research agency) stated “it can be unequivocally be concluded that a poisoning of the bees is due to a rub-off of the pesticide ingredient clothianidin from corn seeds.”

This chemical is estimated to have killed two-thirds of the bees in this state.

Because the pesticide spreads through all plant tissues bees could be getting exposed through the pollen of treated plants. One study actually concluded that neonicotinoids are likely to become concentrated in beehives in high levels, by the mechanism of transported pollen."

“Clothianidin is widely used insecticide marketed in Europe under the brand name Poncho.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has classified clothianidin as “highly toxic” to honeybees.
This chemical was APPROVED for U.S. use in 2003 and German use in 2004.

A subsidiary of the chemical giant Bayer, Bayer Crop Science which manufactures clothianidin, blamed the honeybee deaths on incorrect application of the insecticide.” Beekeepers and pesticide critics rejected this explanation and called for Germany to join France in banning this chemical and other nicotine based insecticides.

In North Dakota beekeepers sued Bayer, alleging that imaclopid caused the Colony Collapse Disorder CCD in that state in 1995. Within 12 months of use one third of that state’s honeybees were dead.

(again) Approximately 80 % of world food crops are pollinated by honeybees. Two million honeybee colonies have been lost in the USA in recent years. Massive dieoffs of bees have been reported from Europe. Taiwan discovered the disappearance of 10,000,000 bees in a two-week period. Obviously this could have an enormous impact on global food supplies.

In 2004 France extended the ban to sweet corn seeds. A new application for clothianidin was banned in France a few months ago.


http://tiny.cc/C6zUL

Shalom,
Barb
 
Oops almost forgot the WORD.

Psalm 37
Fret not [burn, incensed, hot, anger] thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

Trust in the LORD, and do good; [so] shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed. Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

The wicked plotteth against the just… The Lord shall laugh at him… The LORD knoweth the days of the upright they shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.

The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD, Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth [him with] his hand.

I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.


Shalom,
Barb

ps Dispatching angels on the Cumbey's behalf to protect and assist. Shalom to you.
 
Dawn,
(12:33)

Thanks for saying you'd lok for my old Hollywood post. I'm doing the same. Haven't found *it* yet, but did find the link for Nieves de Hayat's papers (JS's mother).

It's: http://www.ericsams.org/ericsams3.htm

I'll keep looking for the Hollywood/NA connection tome.

Thanks

Jolo0.sa (Joan)
 
Dawn,

Still haven't found the Hollywood link; but I'm finding other things that I'd posted that I forgot about!

Here's something along the same line. This was addressed to Constance also in the July postings. Here's what I wrote:

Constance:

Deeply-researched paper about how science-fiction and science have merged to promote the myth of our salvation by past/future space alien masters. It long (288 pp.); but appears well worth the read (must order to read in entirety).

Herrick, James A.
Scientific mythologies : how science and science fiction forge new religious beliefs
Publisher Downers Grove, Ill. : IVP Academic, c2008.

Introduction -- New myths for a New Age -- The myth of the extraterrestrial -- The myth of space -- The myth of the new humanity -- The myth of the future -- The myth of the spiritual race -- The myth of space religions -- The myth of alien gnosis -- Conclusion.
ISBN 9780830825882 (pbk.)
DDC -Subject 201.65
LCC -Subject BL240.3. .H47 2007
Location British Library : DSC : m08/.24984

http://www.theeuropeanlibrary.org/portal/index.html

9:01 PM


Thanks, again
Joan
 
Dorothy 3:28 and 5:43,

Thanks for focusing on those meetings....their importance could be easily overlooked amidst all the bad economic news bites. The methodology you cited will ensure enough people buy in and provide a "grassroots" mandate in support of our "marching orders".

"Each local authority should enter into a dialogue with its citizens, local organizations, and private enterprises and formulate 'a Local Agenda 21.' Through consultation and consensus-building, local authorities would learn from citizens and from local, civic, community, business and industrial organizations and acquire the information needed for formulating the best strategies.” - Agenda 21, Chapter 28, sec 1.3

[A-21 excerpt lifted from Green Agenda's blog]

We already know what kind of earth worshiping "mandate" will emerge from these meetings since the "consensus" was established way back in '92.
 
Barb,

Thanks for that article.

Deannie
 
How/when to implement the marching orders was spelled out in 2007:

“…we will seek to build up networks, networks of senior leaders, and politicians, and academics, and policy experts, diplomats, and with the media so that we can develop an understanding and a momentum to support a process of CHANGE of multilateral security institutions, and be able to PLACE BEFORE A NEW U.S. PRESIDENT IN 2009 the foundations for engagement…”

From the introduction:

Managing Global Insecurity with Javier Solana

Washington, D.C.

Wednesday, March 21, 2007

CARLOS PASCUAL
Vice President and Director,
The Brookings Institution
 
Genetically Modified crops have risen to the level of nine percent of world crops, warned the Worldwatch Institute today (www.WorldWatch.org).

Tensions are rising over the GM foods issue as consumers become increasingly educated about the sharp increases in infertility resulting from the consumption of GM foods.

A popular book, Genetic Roulette by Jeffrey Smith, is also raising literacy about genetically modified foods and the threats they pose to sustainable life on our planet.

It's more than just a health threat, of course: GM foods also pose a threat to the environment, polluting the fertile soils of the world with unnatural genetic material that may have unknown long-term consequences. Cross-pollination with non-GM crops, monoculture practices and the liberal use of chemical pesticides alongside GM crops are just a few of the serious threats to sustainable life on Earth posed by food scientists playing God with seeds.

Activists are increasingly suggesting that the infertility side effects of GM foods are not coincidental and are, instead, part of a genocidal plan by powerful elitists who want the human population to shrink by 80 percent and are willing to destroy human fertility in order to accomplish it. "Let 'em eat their way to population control!"

Although I don't have any solid evidence to prove such a sinister plan actually exists, I'm greatly concerned about GM crops anyway. Despite the population control conspiracy agenda, GM crops are dangerous even if they're just a big, arrogant mistake by corporate-funded scientists.

These foods are bad for you. They're dangerous for human consumption and they could lead to a runaway agricultural blight that causes mass global starvation. Never play God with Mother Nature unless you're begging to be made extinct.
 
Doug,

That's an incredible find!

Shalom/Barb,
Thanks for the advice on the seeds!

sarah
 
oldmanoftheski,Dorothy,

My uppermost thought while reading through the links Dorothy posted...

What happens if I choose NOT to participate...? I didn't wish to plug my zip in to see if there were any groups nearby organizing, but perhaps I should...

sarah
 
Sarah,

Is there an implied threat for non-participation? I mean, did you get a sense of an implied threat? Just curious.

It seems at the very least that this "grassroots movement" is the creation of a super political machine. Fitting for a politician who started in Chicago.
 
HI Joyce,

Wonder if you could answer a question for me? I have seen the Messiah referred to here and there as Yah'shua . Is that a valid name for our savior, in your opinion?

I really value everything you write here and that's why I am asking you.

Thanks,
A believer in Jesus
 
SARAH
How else will you find out what is going on if you don't occasionally stick your neck out? I did to get the information I posted and nothing has happened to me. The website asks your zip to encourage you to get involved, but since you aren't signing up for anything, you're not involved. While it is all well and good to see what is happening in Europe, take some time to find out what is happening in your own neighborhood whether it's your local school, library, church, village, or political surroundings. Then see how it fits into the larger picture.

Dorothy
 
Very true, Dorothy, I agree with you fully.

The turtle needs to stick his neck out in order to get somewhere, doesn't he?

;)

I'm not concerned about any immediate aspect or consequence, it was more a rhetorical question/statement, with obvious ramifications, much farther down the road, depending upon such an answer or a response, at that time.

:) sarah
 
sarah
the martial law is:
Executive Order 10998: All food resources, farms and farm equipment will be seized by the government. You will not be allowed to hoard food since this is regulated. other Executive orders are listed on the following site:
http://members.tripod.com/~Sidlinger/ml.html
 
SARAH AND EVERYONE ELSE
I've been hearing about end times and major government control of everyone since the early '80s. These are things that can cause anyone to put their heads back into their shell, using the turtle analogy that Sarah used. Meanwhile the world around us goes on. It's a hard decision what to do.

Dorothy
 
Dorothy I agree
My parents conditioned us for the same since the 50's. They always knew it was inevitiable,
Also great call on the e-mail and parties. but most discomforting.
YS
 
Anonymous,

You have employed the sacred name movement's spelling of "Yahshua"...that would mean that salvation comes from Yah i.e. the Father. I believe salvation comes from the son and that His name is Yeshua which is a contraction of Yehoshua, like Joshua. Iesous the Greek name ( which is a Jewish) where we get Jesus from, a transliteration of Yeshua is the correct name.

Iesous, was the name that the rabbis used when translating into the Greek Septuagint. In English we use the "J" thus..Jesus.

I like to use His Hebrew name because it means something specific in Hebrew, but many ( in fact most) are saved in the name of Jesus, so that is a legitimate transliteration too as names change from language to language..so I am not a "sacred name" advocate if that's your question.

Hope that answers your question.

Joyce
 
I spent some time today carefully listening to a Gary DeMars interview of Richard Abanes. He was talking about the New Age Movement. Since Richard Abanes fought my work against it I listened skeptically, even though I agreed with his statements about Eckhart Tolle and Oprah Winfrey. THEN, I LISTENED TO THE REMAINDER OF THE PROGRAM WHICH WAS GARY DEMAR by himself. That was the SHOCKING PART! Gary DeMars aggressively takes the position that all the events of Matthew 24 had long since occurred and Jesus had returned during the lifetime of the Apostles. He was claiming his was the biblical position. Perhaps DeMars should read those portions of Scripture which go something like this: "They claim the resurrection has already occured and destroy the faith of many . . .

I always suspected the Reconstructionists/Domininionists had a sort of secret society game -- now I am more convinced of it then ever. What Gary DeMar says is far closer to Alice Bailey herself than to Scripture!

Constance
 
Maybe we should all be moles at the House Parties coming near us -- shades of Moral ReArmament, shades of "Faith at Work", shades of Saul Alinsky!
 
Constance,

It is precisely that kind of misreading of Scripture that allows Christian leaders to write to Obama and ask for a land division.. This is from Holly Peter's blog:

http://tinyurl.com/5ld2vf

When we see major Christian organizations pushing to divide the land, we know the end is near. Israel is mentioned well over 2000 times in the Bible and God is very clear that He and He alone decides what happens to the Land of Israel and that He will enter into judgement with those nations who divide His Land.. When leaders who are supposedly followers of the Bible can blatantly contradict the Scriptures..as the revisionist ideas about Matthew 24 or the Land of Israel, we are seeing very clear signs of apostasy.

I urge those on this blog, who believe that God has not changed His mind about the Biblical promises for the Land of Israel to not be passive. God will enter into judgement with those who divide His land.. He says it not me..

Joel 3:2 I will agather all the nations
And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; And they have divided up My land.

We won't even discuss the obvious danger to Israel by taking away secure borders...We won't discuss what happened with the Gaza strip, which has been a catastrophe. We won't discuss the fact that Israel faces threats on all sides.. The nations, the UN, EU, the so-called Quartet, etc. are turning against Israel which God allowed to be re-established after almost 2000 years. What most people don't know is at that time, many, many Jews were chased out of Arab countries, at least a million of them when the nation was resurrected in 1948, but no one talks about this...

When the "so-called" Bible believers think that God can change His mind about Israel, I would have to ask then, where is the security in your salvation because God can change His mind about you too...or do you just pick and chose which parts of the Bible you believe in...?

Unfortunately, this is considered a minor issue, not one of great importance....just a little difference in opinion over some insignificant passages...Think again!

What makes the Word of God unique above any other book on the planet, is that it is God-breathed, it's eternal, all of its promises are yes and amen. We can count on them, whereas there are few things in this world we can count on at the moment...

I would urge all of you who believe that God's Biblical promises to Israel are unchanging not to be silent, because who knows if you are here for "such a time as this" and if you are silent that your household will not perish too. Maybe it won't change the course of events, but you will be counted on the side of those who stood for truth..

There are many pragmatic Jews that think they will be better off dividing because of the demographics of Arab population growth.. This pragmatism is a sign that they too don't trust the promises of God.

God said that Israel was treat the alien among them well, so there is a place for strangers in the land, as long but the Land is to be governed according to Torah, not Democracy. Democracy is from Plato, which is totally pagan.. Israel is to be a theocracy, which will not happen until Mashiach comes, but in the meantime Bible believers need to side with the Scriptures...period..

God has miraculously preserved a people that He called for Himself through incredible dispersion and persecution, Inquisition, pograms, the Shoah, etc. .The last threat to Israel is the the iron and clay nation of Daniel 2 being formed in our day. This will be the most wicked, but not only the Jews will be affected but all of Israel, including those who consider themselves grafted into the olive tree, so heads up...that's all I can say.

Joyce
 
p.s. the Jews are the visible remnant of Israel for the moment, but there are still 10 tribes that mixed in with the nations..The totality of Israel will be saved, and among the tribes, the alien who is attached to the God of Israel. i.e. like the Rahabs and the Ruths, etc, etc,.

Anyone who doesn't get this right, might find themselves siding with the antimessiah...the Abomination of Desolation as spoken of by Yeshua in Matt 24 and in the book of Daniel.
 
Constance,

What was Richard Abanes's stated reason for opposing your work?

I have never heard of him before, but I looked at his website and his Wikipedia biography. The only thing that jumped out at me (apart from the Wikpedia author's own need to "toot Richard's horn" with regard to a long list of what are apparently supposed to be a long list of impressive accomplishments) as questionable was his association with Saddleback Church.

I have never heard of the "Christian Research Institute," a group with which he was associated.

I would appreciate you shedding light on this man's track record.

The layers of disinformation regarding the NA movement that come from within the "Evangelical Community" itself are enough to make my head spin.

Thanks!
 
THE SACRED SANDWICH

While researching Richard Abanes I came across this unexpected site:

http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/1169

http://www.sacredsandwich.com/headline12.htm

If someone had asked me whether Evangelical Satire existed I would have replied "Out of the question!"

I love this!!!
 
Anonymous 8:36

Do a search on the lactation of St. Bernard- it's quite disgusting. Wonder if the confused church leader who was a METHODIST and not an EVANGELICAL, by the way, who was teaching spiritual dog meditation in his church knew about this legend.

"There are two existing legends concerning lactation of Saint Bernard. The first version describes how Mary appeared to Saint Bernard in a prayer and sprinkled milk from her breast on Bernard's lips. With this gesture she showed him that she is the 'mother of humanity' and that she is prepared to mediate for him with her son. The second version describes how Bernard fell asleep between a prayer. Mary appeared and put her breast into his mouth in order to receive the wisdom of God. "
 
Anonymous 8:52,

Uh, that article (and the Sacred Sandwich website) is not factual, it's satire....
 
Joyce I agree with you. You should know that, and many others agree with you, but keep in mind that the very kind of compromises that are eroding Israel’s security are eroding those of the USA and of other nations; the love of money, the enmity with God is having its suicidal conclusion. The eternal, ever-lasting promises to Abraham are just that, the evidence is clear, and so is “That we may know that we have eternal life” in Christ Jesus.
I am grateful that God has sent you to Constance’s site so that what you say may make a difference in the hearts and minds of others who have not settled the Israel issue; your last entry is one of your best, and your passion shows your love.
 
RICHARD ABANES

Well, a cursory review of Richard Abanes's own website provides all the evidence one needs to see "what we are dealing with" here.

Start here and have a click around:

http://abanes.com/KENSILVA_RICHARDABANES.html
 
RICHARD ABANES

Well, a cursory review of Richard Abanes's own website provides all the evidence one needs to see "what we are dealing with" here.

Start here and have a click around:

http://abanes.com/KENSILVA_RICHARDABANES.html
 
Constance (a follow up on my earlier question),

Don't waste your valuable time responding to my earlier request about "Richie" Abanes. I've looked at his website - Anonymous is correct - Res Ipsa Loquitur
 
Thanks Joyce, your posts are a breath of hope..and warning. As far as Democracy being totally pagan, absolutely correct. The results we see today are precisely what the founders of America warned us would occur when the people realized they could vote themselves "largess from the public treasury".

The headlines on Drudge last two days... "Obama Plans Largest Public Construction Program Since 1950s...
JOBS, ROADS, BRIDGES, SCHOOLS, BROADBAND, ELECTRONIC MEDICAL RECORDS, ENERGY"

Anyone wanna bet the most lucrative contracts are awarded to big Obama supporters, say 10:1 ratio?

Strategy: Create dependence, destroy alternatives.
 
FYI to anyone interested in additional Richard Albanes information:

Slice of Laodicea has highlighted emergent church leader Richard Albanes many times.
In her July 26, 2008 blog post Ingrid Schlueter wrote about the attack on Ken Silva (Apprising Ministries) instigated by Richard Albanes. Ken Silva has written extensively from a personal viewpoint, of the situation
with Albanes in addition to other proponents of a man-centered gospel/mystical christianity -
those in positions of leadership with-in the emerging church.

http://apprising.org/category/richard-abanes/

In the August 2008 archives Ingrid
addresses statements made by Richard Albanes,(from his website)
that online discernment ministries are xenophobic, cult-like, paranoid, and are a few steps from the compound of David Koresh.
Despite his "Christian statement of faith", Richard Albanes has proved himself to be a person I would be foolish to trust as a brother in Christ - one who I know would stand along side of myself and other persecuted people of faith. Nor would I expect him to
"have my back" in any world vs the cross/Jesus is Lord situation.

-Rudi

http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/2008/07/

http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/2008/08/
 
Dear Joyce,

I also want to add my voice to Setterman's , Old Man's and others here. You are such a breath of Godly wisdom here!

And your love for others is enormous and beautiful in its lack of self-regard, in spite of how disrespectfully some have treated you in response to your love for them. This is a testament not to how thick your skin is, (as you mentioned in a past thread) but how filled with the Holy Spirit you certainly are.

I appreciate your warnings about Christians just picking and choosing which parts of the Bible they want to believe in and follow. You are so correct when you expressed how in compromising people may find themselves on the wrong side of Messiah's fence.

I was reading 1Samuel this week and was reminded that God expects obedience over sacrifice. Partial obedience and compromise leave us open to witchcraft-divination, - all the pagan devices that are subtly being swept into every aspect of our lives these days, and which we all hopefully try to avoid by even coming here and reading this blog. But reading a blog does little to replace the reading of God's own word and understanding what it means today.

"Does God delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the voice of the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
He has rejected you as king."
1Samuel 15: 22-23

Saul thought it was okay to follow just some of God's instruction. He was disobedient because he compromised. And God was grieved because he warned that compromise leads to divination. Sure enough, Saul got further and further into trouble with the Lord from that point , even calling upon a witch to raise up a demonic spirit, which in his deceived mind, Saul believed to be Samuel.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you publicly for all the time that you take to record scripture here, and to concisely connect today's events with bible prophecy.

Thanks again for all of your insight into scripture.

Maryanne
 
TONY BLAIR ON CNN THIS MORNING

For any who missed it, Tony Blair was on Wolf Blitzer's Late Edition on CNN this morning. The interview covers Israel/Palestine, Pakistan and a host of other topics. The transcript can be read here.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0711/04/le.01.html

JD
 
Richard Abanes absolutely mischaracterized my work and openly lied about me -- moreover, he tried to make an association between me and the anti-semitic aspects of the Militia Movement -- something I have opposed from the very beginning! I believe he was doing this, perhaps at the instigation of Walter Martin and company!

Constance
 
or tinyurl

http://tinyurl.com/5np2fh

JD
 
Thanks Rudi, Abenes appears to be doing all of this out in the open. Reading what he has written, and about what he has done, is eye-opening to say the least.

Here is an interesting clip of Ingrid's radio show where discusses how the increasing attacks on genuine discernment ministries are coming from within Christianity itself:

http://endtimesdeception.com/?p=664
 
Clarification - the radio show linked to above focuses specifically on Abenes.
 
A SIGN OF THINGS TO COME?
SWAT TEAM CONDUCTS FOOD RAID IN RURAL OHIO

I am unsure of the reliability of the source, but this states a food co-op in Lagrange, Oh was raided by the SWAT team. During which the family was held at gun point by officers with automatic rifles. Manna Storehouse (the co-op) had over $10k worth of food confiscated, as well as the family running the co-op's personal year supply.

http://tinyurl.com/68mtz4

JD
 
Is there a difference with the "synergism" (man has nothing to do with his salvation) and the "once saved always saved" teachings?
 
Constance,

I never heard of Richard Albanes, but checked out a link someone left below where it seems he was defending himself against Ken Silva. I went further into his website and noticed he seems to be an Obama supporter, which in my opinion lacks Christian discernment. That being said , it seems he came out of a very liberal artsy background; I'm quite familiar with the dance companies he was involved in, and they reek of demonic activity. Hard to completely break free from ties that strong,IMHO, even if you're trying to be a good Christian. At least it seems as though he wrote some good books against the New Age,i.e. against Eckert Tolle, Da Vinci Code, Harry Potter, etc., so he's apparently done some good in alerting people to bad things. Haven't read any of his books, though, so maybe someone else can tell me if they're actually worth the paper they were printed on.

Sad that he attacked you with lies. Sounds like what he accused Ken Silva of doing to him!
 
Sarkozy defies China:
"French President Nicolas Sarkozy defied China yesterday by meeting Tibet's exiled spiritual leader the Dalai Lama but said there was no reason to "dramatise" the encounter.

China called off a summit with the EU last Monday in protest against Sarkozy's decision to meet the Dalai Lama, branded by Beijing as a "splittist" for advocating self-determination for his remote mountainous homeland.

"There is no need to dramatise things. I have always considered Tibet as part of China - the Dalai Lama himself does not call for Tibet's independence," Sarkozy told reporters just before his talks with the Buddhist leader.

"We must see things calmly, serenely," he said, adding that the president of France had the right to set his own agenda.

Sarkozy stressed that China and Europe needed each other.

"The world needs an open China which participates in world governance. China needs a powerful Europe which gives work to companies in China. We have the duty to work together," he said.

French officials say Beijing's unusually vocal criticism of Sarkozy's plans to meet the Dalai Lama is linked to the fact that Paris holds the EU's rotating presidency. Many Chinese nationalists have urged a boycott of French products.

"The Chinese believe that we have the power to enforce discipline among the (27) countries of the European Union... (But) we are not the teachers of the European classroom," a French official told reporters in Paris.

The official also said there had been no sign yet of any Chinese boycott of French products, noting that the EU is China's biggest trade partner and that supermarket chain Carrefour employs tens of thousands of people in China and is the biggest purchaser of Chinese goods in France."

Link to full article-
http://tinyurl.com/6fwxhh

-SV
 
JD, interesting report when one considers the eariler comment on John Kennedy’s Executive Order 10998, but remembering Elian Gonzalez's forced repatriation to Cuba, I’m not surprised at all. Its all about my “personal comfort, security, and prosperity.” The rule of law is gone when a child can be “kidnapped”’ from his home by a swat team and sent to Cuba.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli%C3%A1n_Gonz%C3%A1lez#Eli.C3.A1n_taken_by_Federal_authorities
 
Anon 10:42

Thanks for the link...my googling wasn't coming up with any paydirt..

Back to reading and some more "eddication"...

sarah
 
YG
For all of the wisdom some claim to see in Joyce's comments, I have yet to see anyone become a Messianic Jew as result of her comments. I am presuming you will be the first.

Dorothy
 
Dorothy 8:57, 11:26,

I've been very aware of what is happening all around me in the community.....gun shops are enjoying record sales, semi-automatic assault rifles and tactical shotguns are jumping off the shelves while other businesses left and right are putting up "going out of business" and 50% off sale signs. Online gun dealers and manufacturers have posted online statements that even though they increased production and inventory in "anticipation of the election results", they had no idea the demand would be as high as it is. Even the most common ammo, .223 cal/NATO rounds are hard to come by in more than small amounts as larger bulk orders, at least here, are all back ordered. Those who planned ahead, godspeed. The rest, well, just plain dumb and out of luck.

As for being a "mole" at those Obama meetings as Constance has suggested, well I have an "in" on one and am planning on attending. But @*(#)*! the idea of being a mole! I'm going to be a royal pain in the ass!
 
Exd 32:9

And the LORD said to Moses, "I have seen this people, and indeed it [is] a stiff-necked people!

The rest of us should probably purchase a neck brace and/or spend some time doing muscle strengthening exercises.
 
Sarah
After working in retail groc for 30 years I can tell you that we all knew that the numbering system on produce was not for use with computers, they intentionally gave any produce a number and recorded it when it was patented, to patent you must have a unique product. Therefore it was known to be a hybrid produce. These hybrid have seeds that can not come to fruitation, or do not store for the following year. The aim was to stop the competition of home gardeners. For the answers to the questions you have on produce go to the patent office discriptions. these were the prelude to the terminator seeds in Genetically altered foods.
YS
 
Sarah that is the only way to get produce in stores now. to make sure they have a number to satisfy patent laws. And it is a part of the WTO.
YS
 
OLDMAN
If you've been to one of types of controlled meeting, forget the following. But if this is your first time, be prepared.

http://www.iror.org/delphi_info.asp
The Delphi Technique - by Lynn Stuter

The Delphi Technique — How to Disrupt It.

What American Citizens Need to Know About Consensus and Facilitation

If you find the information of interest and want to know more, here's the link.

http://www.illinoisloop.org/committees.html

About 2/3 of the way down see
Have you been Delphi'd? for many links.

These characters are very smooth.

Dorothy
 
Thanks Setterman, Oldmanoftheski and Maryanne for you kind words. I really appreciate them.

I've been noticing that with the Obama presidency, there is a great deal more media attention focused on having a "solution" to the Middle East problem.

Jimmy Carter has it all figured out...can't wait what he has to say this time. Since Brezinski was advising Obama during the campaign and was in Carter's administration, I'm sure this book will have the perfect solution to the Mideast crisis.

http://tinyurl.com/5cbrjd

Dorothy, Look at what Yeshua said about the shema. Thought you'd find it interesting.


For all those don't know what the shema is, the word shema means listen in the active sense of listening and obeying, but it is also the word used to explain the beginning of the Ten Words or Ten Commandments. "Hear O Israel the Lord is God, the Lord is One and is one of the verses that really makes it hard for Jews to believe Yeshua is God..the word echad which means one, has a sense of composite unity, like a husband and wife who become "one" flesh. In fact "echad" is the word for "one" used in this verse:

Gen. 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one( echad) flesh.

Now we know a husband and wife aren't literally one, but there is a unity in marriage that makes them echad, like Yeshua and His Father, so the word echad has that sense too. There is ONE God, but in a sense of composite unity. The word elohim is plural. Here's a hasidic Jew

explaining that:

http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/447,2024029/Why-is-the-name-Elohim-plural.html

http://tinyurl.com/5e39g8

He almost gets it when he says, that it's the way God manifests..Yes, God can manifest in the flesh if He so desires, and in fact He did..

Here are Yeshua's words:

Mark 12:28-37 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?”

Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ “The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.

(HE quotes the shema saying God is "one")

”The scribe said to Him, “Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM;
Mark 12:33 AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE’S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions.
And Jesus began to say, as He taught in the temple, “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David?
“David himself said in the Holy Spirit,
‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET.”’
“David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; so in what sense is He his son?” And athe large crowd enjoyed listening to Him.

Yeshua didn't deny the shema, but rather explained it and showed that He could be "one" with His Father.

Some people tried to stone Him when it said it plainly on Hanukah:(Feast of Dedication is Hanukah)

John 10:22-26 At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. aThe Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long 1will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered them, “aI told you, and you do not believe; bthe works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. “But you do not believe because ayou are not of My sheep. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. “I and the Father are one.”(Echad)


Some of the Jews, not all by any means, thought He was committing blasphemy because they couldn't understand how He could say He was "echad"..and tried to stone Him, but it wasn't yet His time...


The expression "Messianic Jew" means a lot of different things to different people, so I'm not using that expression Dorothy, but if you mean for a Jew to accept their Messiah Maryanne already is one, because she is a both a Jew and has accepted her Messiah. The word Christian has a lot of historical associations, but if a Messianic is one who follows the Messiah, a Christian is one who follows the Christ, so in that sense it might mean the same thing. Jehovah Wtiness' and Mormans call themselves Christians, so it's a Word that can be confusing...as I said it was originally used as an insult to the followers of Yeshua who were Jews.

The best is though, when He calls Himself the "I am who I am, which literally translated means I am becoming who I am becoming.. In this verse, which angered some of the Jews, Yeshua is calling Himself the I AM WHO I AM, but it doesn't come through in the translation:

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

That's why they tried to stone Him again...God never revealed Himself to Abraham as the I AM WHO I AM, so Yeshua was making them understand that He always was but didn't reveal that aspect of Himself until Moses came..Just like He was now revealing a new aspect of Himself..God in the flesh. Details are so interesting in the Bible..

Sorry for the long explanation, but words can be very interesting...and I'm one of those analytic types.

Joyce
 
JOYCE
Maryanne a Jew, and by extension a already a Messianic Jew? I'll bet that's news to her. Since she likes your themes so much I am sure you can direct her to a meeting place where she will feel very much at home. Then you can work on find a Messianic Jewish home for Paul. He's just too shy to ask this for himself.

Anyway, thank you for caring. Remember, God loves you.

Dorothy
 
For the record, I think it is spelled

"Richard A-B-A-N-E-S

I think the "Abenes" is a misspelling -- I am certain it is. I consider him a VERY BAD ACTOR!

Constance
 
Ys,

Thank you for your info on the marketing of produce, and the patent/numbering details, things I did not know.

I grow gardens much as everyone else, I would imagine, but know that the seeds are generally hybrid. I've had some "volunteers" come up in following years, generally entertaining for their variety of appearances, but definitely not edible. With all the events on the horizon, and to be prepared in just a practical sense to provide for a healthier lifestyle, I've pursued more and more home preparation and home grown food aspects. But I figured, and from info I could find, that somewhere, this would be threatened to be removed from my control also.

I thank you for your patience to explain some of this stuff, as I am still fresh to so much that is happening. Most disconcerting has been the fact that many I have looked at in the past as having relatively solid foundations in the Gospel have lately shown themselves to be not only straying 180 degrees away from the Lord, but are also taking huge numbers of followers with them.

So, I'm cautious, and probably making mistakes, but trying to learn from them also, and keep moving forward.

I've just started reading the info Dorothy posted on the Delphi Technique... I would never have found this on my own.

I thank you again,

sarah
 
Thank you Constance. Abanes is correct. I can't believe I could mis-type a name so many times when I had it right in front of my face at his website. My apologies to all. -Rudi
 
Dear Dorothy,
Thanks for the Delphi Technique info. Very informative.
Made me immediately think of the "Alpha" program. Evil material being used by many churches in my area.

-SV
 
DELPHI
I'm glad to help others as others have helped me over the years. If it hadn't been for some really good researchers who took the time to research, copy and distribute handouts long before the internet, I would never have found the underground current of information.

After learning about the technique, I went out of my way to see it in action. Before I learned about the technique I was so darn trusting. I learned that without a group there was no way to change the influence of the organizational leaders. You can disconcert them by not letting them take the lead and asking "innocent" "outside of the box" kinds of questions. They then are stuck trying to figure out whether I'm too smart or too stupid.

Dorothy

Dorothy
 
Dorothy,
I always get a good chuckle when I read your comments. You have have such a sarcastic sense of humor.. I love it!

Joyce
 
Dorothy,
By the way, you're right, I'm happy to help anyone who asks, so that goes for you too. If there's anything ever I can do for you...honestly. I'm more than happy to..

That's because God loves me...because He does, I can love others too..I just figure if Yeshua died for someone like me, I can forgive anything that someone throws my way...it's already been paid for at the cross. Not only did He pay for my sins, but the ones that others commit against me. That is actually the most amazing thing about what He did.. His forgiveness covers it all, and in Him we can be reconciled, one to another...

That really is the good news..

Blessings,
Joyce
 
JOYCE
You wrote: "If there's anything ever I can do for you...honestly. I'm more than happy to.."

Thank you for making the offer. My request: Ignore me.

Thanks in advance.

Dorothy
 
Joyce said,
"Now we know a husband and wife aren't literally one, but there is a unity in marriage that makes them echad, like Yeshua and His Father, so the word echad has that sense too."

I have to disagree with you here, I believe they are made ONE their spirits are united and that is literal.

"What God has JOINED TOGETHER let no man SEPARATE."

[no time now to find ref.or lighten this up so you don't think I am attacking.]

Love & Shalom,
Barb
 
When discussing the food shortage issues, this verse always comes to mind, especially regarding so called modern day wisdom regarding food practices...

To me it explictly says what God created is good. What it doesn't say is that what men have created is good.

1 Timothy
4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
4:2
by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron ,
4:3
men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully * shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
4:4
For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
4:5
for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
 
Hi Dorothy,

You're a piece of work aren't you? I get a kick out of you, too- you're like the feisty old grandmother that comes to visit and the kids love because she's feisty and will tell you that your feet stink and your gravy has lumps in it. You bite your tongue the whole time she visits out of respect, and when you finally get the nerve to retort to one of her insults you're sorry you did it because there is no reasoning with her. It's her way or none.

I asked you once why you hadn't accepted that Jesus was the Messiah because I was just plain curious. As I recall you answered graciously , without insulting me and without answering my question either.

If you know something I don't know, why don't you share it? You share other important info here, and you certainly get an earful from the other(Messianic /Christian) side on this blog!

You play the devil's advocate very well in other topics, so convince me that Jesus is not who he says he was and then I won't have to pray for you to be saved anymore.
 
Thanks Dorothy, for the Delphi links - very good info.

I've been through many of these focus group consensus building meetings in the work place....and instinctively revolted. I left a company after many years when they pulled this NA B.S. and it became intolerable for me to continue following. (We are supposed to be like sheep, right?)

I've found that humor works wonders to get people to listen to an "opposing" view. I used it repeatedly in conversation throughout last year with an Obama "community organizer". I guess it is sort of my natural "self defense" mechanism, however I have to guard against going overboard with excessive sarcasm, which can be counter-productive. Interestingly enough, the Obama supporter was always the one to lose his temper. (A small moral victory perhaps?) But then again, those of us who are "resistant" to the desired "changes" can expect to be marginalized, then shunned, and likely put on a list with a big X by our names! There is also a very real danger of getting worn down in the fray...at which point, especially if we find ourselves all alone and backed into a corner, we should call it a day (and go do something fun, like skiing!)

There were two candidates in the last election cycle that showed they understood how to disrupt the "cycle", (Keys and Paul). Watching them in action, and how the "system" managed to marginalize their respective viewpoints, was most educational, and also very alarming.
 
PAINTDANCER
Pray all you want. It's good for your soul. Religious belief requires faith because it requires a person to believe the words of others without concrete proof. I do not have faith in Christianity. I do not accept the words in the New Testament as God inspired although they may contain some brilliant advice.

If it was my way or none, I would work to take apart Christian beliefs, but there is no point in doing that because for all of its weaknesses, Christianity has a good effect on its followers. Without it there would be more paganism, and that's not a good thing. Judaism is too intellectually demanding. Muslim belief can lead too easily to fanaticism. Moral people can be found among atheists, agnostics, pagans, and even occultists, but there is no community of advisors or a common belief on what is moral, so temptation toward immoral behavior has a field day.

Christian beliefs with all of the different branches has something for everyone who has that faith. Why should I do anything to discourage it?

Dorothy
 
OLD MAN
I have tried humor in other situations, but not at one of those meetings as I don't know how I would fit it in. They are so tightly controlled.

Dealing with the manipulators is hard work, and its getting to be too hard for someone my age. Several things keep me going. One is that without some women who made the effort to warn me about what was happening in regard to Humanism back in 1979, I would be as dumbed down as most people are. Over the years it has been like stepping into another reality. I provide an opportunity for others to learn of the manipulations going on, and sometimes they do.

Dorothy
 
OBAMA AGAIN

Last night I was up and turned on Coast to Coast to listen to an occultist. Did my ears perk up when Obama's name came up. Here are the links.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2008/12/07.html#recap

Now read the of the symbolism behind Obama's icon which I wrote about earlier.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page2860.html?theme=light or
http://tinyurl.com/6jlllv

One of his themes was when we need one they will send one to guide.

Of course this is nonsense, but people who believe nonsense are capable of trying to live it out in the real world.

Dorothy
 
As Dorothy points out "Judaism is too intellectually demanding."
One can sometimes lose the goal in Judaism as is shown by so many religions that are obvious breakaways of Judaism, all of them concentrating on a small piece and not the whole. As this example below shows:

KJV Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. B'rashit bara Elokim et haShamayim v'et haEretz"

Pinchas Winston, in his book, "Talking about the End of Days" points out that there are apparent mistakes in the Torah. Rashi shows that there are spelling mistakes with missing letters and sometimes extra letters in a word. There are also grammatical mistakes. When there is an apparent mistake, it is always a hint that there is a deeper meaning. Like an onion, one must peel off other layers to understand the many possible meanings.

The first word in the Torah, "B'rashit" (tyviareB.), Rashi points out, is grammatically in-correct. Had it been intended to mean, "In the beginning" the word should have been "B'rishonah". Rashi also shows that the word B'rashit is miss-spelled. It could be two words, "reshit biet" which is an illusion to the Jewish People. So it would read, "For the sake of Torah and the Jewish people, G-D made the heavens and the earth". In Aramaic, B'rashit is translated "Bara Shaish" that means "In Six G-D created the heavens and the earth." This suggests than not only in six days did G-D create the heavens and the earth but also projected that in six thousand years He would consummate his creation.

the word B'rashit can also mean "B'Reshet. The word "Reshet" means a "net" or "network" it can also mean a "matrix". This matrix is a slot-class correlation of all the elements of the universe. There is, if someone had the knowledge, wisdom and understanding to didactic it, a Periodic Atomic Chart of all the Elements and Molecules of the universe both organic and inorganic based on the 22 letters of the Hebrew Alphabet. They would form a matrix both in analog and digital format. The word "matrix" is synonymous with the Hebrew word "Rechem" that means "the womb" In that instant of creation, G-D created the souls of every person who would ever pass through the womb. Therefore, we all existed before we were born and we will continue to exist after we die! We can all say, "Before Abraham was, I Am." What's more, we can all say, "Before Adam was, I Am!"

YS
 
again judaism is intellectually demanding and ever so many abandon it, for that reason alone.
example:

Rabbi Eliezer Ben Yehuda, in our 1983 Conference, pointed out that the word B'rashit bara Elokim et haShamayim v'et haEretz, in the simplest grammatical interpretation can mean "In her head, He created Elohim (G-D), with the heavens and with the earth." You cannot have a creation without a Creator. By the same rational you cannot have a Creator without a creation. Creation and Creator came onto existence at precisely the same instant. Before creation there was not matter, energy, space nor time. Nothing existed! Nothing, even G-D did not exist.

We find it difficult to comprehend absolute nothingness. We do not have a word for it! We must use the word "Thing" to say "No thing" and the word "Thing" is something! When we say "No, even G-D (Elohim) did not exist", we forbear that He did exist in potential in YHVH but not as The Creator. YHVH, the Incomprehensible' Ineffable, Indefinable and Unutterable ONE had to sacrifice a portion of his Incomprehensibleness to become Creator. This is to say, that YHVH had to "Tzimzum", "Contract Himself inside Himself, shrink, shrivel-up and sacrifice some of His" Incomprehensibleness to become Creator and still remain One. For that reason, the Creator (Elohim) is comprehensible! We comprehend the Creator through His creation. "When I behold the heavens, the works of Thy hands, the moon and the stars that you did create, what is man that you are mindful of him?" "The heavens declare the Glory of GD, and the firmament sets forth His handiworks"!

Matter, Energy, Space and Time are not four things. They are ONE! Einstein taught that Matter is Energy at rest, and Energy is Matter at work. So Matter and Energy are really ONE. Space is the distance between Matter and Matter. Time is the measurement of the movement in Space between Matter and Matter. Consequently, Space and Time are ONE with Matter and Energy. G-D is ONE and his Name is ONE! So also are all the elements and molecules of the universe both organic and inorganic are ONE with the ONE Creator.

Judaism teaches that if one single atom escaped His control the entire universe would cease to exist. I hesitate to quote from the Christian's Scriptures. But there is a passage in the opening of the book of Hebrews that so vindicates this principal. "He upholds all things by the Word of His power." The construct in the Greek however reads: "He upholds all things by the power of His Word. The Greek for "Word" is "Logos". In the Greek Septuagint the word "Torah", is always translated "Logos." Hence the verse should read "He upholds all things by the power of His Torah." The Greek word for "things" is "neutron". So, "He upholds all neutrons by the power of His Torah!" Also, the book of the Gospel of John opens with: "In the beginning was the Word (Torah) and the Word (Torah) was Pros ho Theos before the G-D was. And the Word (Torah) became flesh and dwelt among us." How did the "Torah become flesh and dwell among us?" The Torah became flesh in seven men. They were, Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph. This is the "B'rashit" the book of "Genesis."
The word "bara", "He created" only occurs once in the entire Ta'nach. It occurs only once because it just happened this one time and will never happen again. Since you cannot have a creation with out a Creator, by the same rational you cannot have a Creator without a creation. Creation and Creator came into existence at precisely at the same instant. There was a "Big Bang out of Black Hole" that slung Hebrew alphabet soup all over nowhere and nowhere became everywhere and nothing became everything. If one single neutron escaped His control the entire universe would cease to exist and be sucked back into the black hole!

The universe is expanding at a constant rate. Astronomers reverse that rate of expansion and calculate that the big bang out of the black hole occurred fifteen billion, two hundred fifty million years ago. To this the Holy Scriptures agree! In Psalms 90:3 "A thousand years in Thy sight is as one day and one day is as a thousand years, and when it is passed it is a watch in the night." On this computation, A thousand years in Thy sight is as one day and one day would be fifteen billion years ago. Add a watch in the night (one fourth of a day) would be two hundred and fifty million years. Consequently, again, it has taken science 3,000 years to catch-up with the Holy Scriptures! " Etha - Shamiim" is "with the heavens" "v'et haEretz" "and with the earth" The word "Et" means "with" This teaches us that the Creator came into existence simultaneously "with" the heavens and the earth.

Now we will consider,Who was "He", and who was "She"? .
The word "Bereshit" "In her head" is in the feminine gender. So also the word "Torah" is in the feminine gender. David wrote: "Thy Torah O'Lord, HaShem (YHVH) is from everlasting to everlasting! By Your Torah You created the universe." She is the Torah! He is HaShem "YHVH".
 
Barb,
Yes, I totally agree with you that husband and wife are one in their spirits too. You did a better job explaining than I did. Thanks!

Love and shalom,
Joyce
 
MARYANN

"so convince me that Jesus is not who he says he was and then I won't have to pray for you to be saved anymore."

???

Are you for real? You are so full of yourself it simply beggars belief.

I thought you were leaving this blog because it was "bad" for you spiritually. Maybe you would reconsider that impulse? Or at least post something about the New Age movement instead of typing into the computer screen like you are talking to your therapist?
 
To Dorothy,

Re. the Delphi info - fantastic information. Forever in your debt for this one!
 
OBAMA AGAIN
The New Age is so big even the Supreme Court of the US is afraid to challenge it. That's my response to the fact that SCOTUS begged off on dealing with the question of Obama's complicity with the Constitutional requirement.

Said correctly:
American history over the last century is the story of constitutional
abandonment.
http://laiglesforum.com/2008/12/08/america-lacks-standing/

As others have said here, the only thing to cling to is one's religion. As a country we appear to be dead to law outside of what the leadership says it is.

Here's an example of how trash works together to destroy decency:
http://www.lifenews.com/bio2657.html
Attorney Who Aided Terri Schiavo’s Husband Now Advising Barack Obama

Dorothy
 
OCCULT SYMBOLISM FOR HEAVY DUTY RESEARCHERS ONLY
I found this website while looking for more information connecting Obama and the occult. On this page Obama's logo appears among other occult symbols. I think some of the connections are on the extreme end, but the website has many interesting links on the right side of the page.

http://wikicompany.org/wiki/911:Occult_symbolism_VI

Dorothy
 
Newsmax.com


Supreme Court Won't Review Obama's Eligibility for Presidency
Monday, December 8, 2008 11:43 AM



WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court has turned down an emergency appeal from a New Jersey man who says President-elect Barack Obama is ineligible to be president because he was a British subject at birth.


The court did not comment on its order Monday rejecting the call by Leo Donofrio of East Brunswick, N.J., to intervene in the presidential election.


Donofrio says that since Obama had dual nationality at birth — his mother was American and his Kenyan father at the time was a British subject — he cannot possibly be a "natural born citizen," one of the requirements the Constitution lists for eligibility to be president.


Donofrio also contends that two other candidates, Republican John McCain and Socialist Workers candidate Roger Calero, also are not natural-born citizens and thus ineligible to be president.


At least one other appeal over Obama's citizenship remains at the court. Philip J. Berg of Lafayette Hill, Pa., argues that Obama was born in Kenya, not Hawaii as Obama says and the Hawaii secretary of state has confirmed.


Berg says Obama also may be a citizen of Indonesia, where he lived as a boy. Federal courts in Pennsylvania have dismissed Berg's lawsuit. Federal courts in Ohio and Washington state have rejected similar lawsuits.


Allegations raised on the Internet say the birth certificate, showing that Obama was born in Hawaii on Aug. 4, 1961, is a fake.


But state officials in Hawaii say they checked health department records and have determined there's no doubt Obama was born in Hawaii.


The nonpartisan Web site Factcheck.org examined the original document and said it does have a raised seal and the usual evidence of a genuine document.


In addition, Factcheck.org reproduced an announcement of Obama's birth, including his parents' address in Honolulu, that was published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961.


***One lawsuit to go! Wow this is serious injustice of the Constitution, Obama being a Constitutional Lawyer knew this would happen.
YS

© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
 
Each time I see a picture of Obama I keep waiting for his eyes to turn red, I don't know why?
YS
 
OBAMA MORE
http://www.metimes.com/Opinion/2008/08/28/american_osiris_rising_obamas_symbols_of_transformation/6665/
Middle East Times
American Osiris Rising: Obama's Symbols of Transformation

""In a society that has mythologized itself from its earliest days the president is the high priest of the national identity," note Ted Anthony and Ron Fournier. During significant turning points in history a charismatic leader driven by his archetypes can mobilize a generation of people into a transformational grassroots movement....

"His marketing materials designed by the Chicago-based Sol Sender present Obama as the modern day sun-god. "We were looking at the "O" of his name and had the idea of a rising sun and a new day," Sender said. "The sun rising over the horizon evoked a new sense of hope...

"The letter 'O' symbolically represents Obama as the white hot sun, rising above the blue sky with the waves of red and white stripes representing the American flag over the plains. It is not that Obama does not know the dangers of flying too close to the sun, rather he has become the sun...

"Like the sun-god, he plans to bring peace and prosperity to the land, move marginal voices to the center, and usher in a new American morning."

Dinesh Sharma is a marketing science consultant with a Doctorate in Psychology from Harvard. His articles have appeared in numerous Internet Web sites and scientific journals.

Dorothy
 
Anon 12:30 Stated:
When we say "No, even G-D (Elohim) did not exist", we forbear that He did exist in potential in YHVH but not as The Creator. YHVH, the Incomprehensible' Ineffable, Indefinable and Unutterable ONE had to sacrifice a portion of his Incomprehensibleness to become Creator. This is to say, that YHVH had to "Tzimzum", "Contract Himself inside Himself, shrink, shrivel-up and sacrifice some of His" Incomprehensibleness to become Creator and still remain One.
All this is interesting, but as child-like as I am I must let others speak for me on these subjects. I don’t like long posts, especially posts that are inconsistent with the theme of this blog.
Jesus said:
“And now, O Father, glorify me with thine own self with the glory which I had with before the world was.” KJB
“And now, Father, give me in your own presence the glory which I had with you, before the world came into existence.” William Barclay
I think you in your complex mind will understand that no-thing of the immutable God could be withered, lost, or otherwise be diminished if the pre-creation relationship was about to be restored.
I will let you hear from Matthew Henry commenting on James 1:16 & 17:
We are taught yet further that, while we are the authors and procurers of all sin and misery to ourselves, God is the Father and foundation of all good. We should take particular care not to err in our conceptions of God: ‘Do not err, my beloved brethren, do not wander, that is from the word of God, and the accounts of him you have there. Do not stray into erroneous opinions, and go off from the standard of truth, the things which you have received from the Lord Jesus and by the direction of His Spirit.” The loose opinions of Sinon, and the Nicolaitans (from whom the Gnostics, a most sensual corrupt set of people, arose afterwards) may perhaps, by the apostle here, are disposed to look into these may consult the first run into what notions they will, the truth, as it is in Jesus, stands thus: That God is not, cannot be, the author and patronizer of any thing that is evil; but must be acknowledged as the cause and spring of every thing that is good: Every good and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights. Here observe that God is the Father of lights. The visible light of the sun and the heavenly bodies is from him. He said, Let there be light, and there was light. Thus God is at once represented as the Creator of the sun and in some respects compared to it. “As the sun is the same in its nature and influences, though the earth and clouds, oft interposing, make it seem to us as varying, by its rising and setting, and by its different appearances, or entire withdrawalment, when the change is not in it; so God is unchangeable, and our changes and shadows are not from any mutability or shadowy alterations in him, but from ourselves” Baxter
Psalm 102:25-27a NIV In the beginning you laid down the foundations of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain;
They will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them
And they will be discarded.
But you remain the same. . .”
 
SETTERMAN
Give it a break. You have no problem with Joyce's many feet long posts nor did you have a problem with OV's five foot long post. Suzanne gets quite long at times.

Judaism isn't for everyone, but Christianity isn't either. Granted what was posted, was obviously not posted by me. If we accept the years involved, Judaism has 4,000 more years of theology to deal with than Christianity does, and as was said, Of Learning there is no end. It is not what Reform Jews will hear in the synagogue every week, but you just got an example of the kind of religious study Orthodox Jews do in yeshivas.

As for me, religion is meant to be a guide to our relationship with God and our fellow man. Jews will learn that with their books and Christians with theirs. Let God sort it out.

Dorothy
 
Dorothy
well stated,
YS
 
As much as we would all have liked a different result in the election, Leo Donofrio's claims were absurd. He should have focused on just Obama, but when he accused John McCain and whoever the other guy is as also not being natural born citizens he lost any credibility. I mean, c'mon. Let's keep it real people!

The sad fact is as of 1/20/09 Obama will be the next president. Splash some cold water on your face and come back to reality. If it's part of Bible prophecy, there's nothing we can do to change it. Just keep paying attention and alert. The Apostles, if they could, would have prevented the Crucifixion. Jesus knew better.
 
No surprise here....

Scientists: Rain stopped when Jews left Mideast
Findings confirm rabbi's reading of Bible prophecy
Posted: December 05, 2008
1:00 am Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily

Prophecies for Era of Muslim Terror

Confirming a rabbi's reading of Bible prophecy, scientists reported yesterday that an analysis of rings on stalagmite from a cave near Jerusalem reveals the climate of the region got drier shortly after the Roman dispersion of the Jews in A.D. 70.

University of Wisconsin geologists
analyzed the chemical composition of individual rings that formed the stalagmite growing up from the floor of the Soreq Cave near Jerusalem between 200 B.C. and A.D. 1100. Geologists John Valley and Ian Orland concluded the climate was drier in the eastern Mediterranean between 100 A.D. and A.D. 700, with steep drops in rainfall around 100 A.D. and A.D. 400 – a period of waning Roman and Byzantine power in the region.

Rabbi Menachem Kohen of Brooklyn, in his book, "Prophecies for the Era of Muslim Terror: A Torah Perspective on World Events," made just such a case last year – based on entirely different evidence.

Rabbi Kohen points out the land suffered an unprecedented, severe and inexplicable (by anything other than supernatural explanations) drought that lasted from the first century until the 20th – a period of 1,800 years coinciding with the forced dispersion of the Jews.
 
anonymous
For sure God's plan is the only plan.

also
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11312

Tax the Rich! State Budget Crisis Deepens: Humanitarian Crisis Emerges

YS
 
I've had English phone calls distressed about references I had to Moral Rearmament working with Lucis Trust. One told me he had trouble finding anything googling on his own. I regret that I have mislaid his return number which I could now inexpensiely reach with SKYPE Service. However, if he reads this site, try googling MRA's "latest incarnation" as "Initiatives of Change." The New Age themes and networking should leap right out at you.

Constance
 
Dorothy, when I mentioned I don’t like long posts I meant mine.
 
Richard Abanes' works "against the New Age" in my opinion -- books which pretty much parroted much if not all of what I had reported for which he personally gave me persecution were, in my opinion, to give him bona fides as a spokesman for Rick Warren and to give him bona fides in the Jewish community, while all the time he is linked openly up with the Christian Reconstruction Movement, which as Dorothy Margraf and I well know is the very essence of anti-Jewish anti-Semitism!

It's an old game -- establish oneself as the "expert" and then attack those who dare go beyond the pre-defined perimeters to actually uncover the truth!

Constance
 
666
How is it nobody caught the 666 in the link I posted earlier?

http://www.metimes.com/Opinion/2008/08/28/american_osiris_rising_obamas_symbols_of_transformation/6665/
Middle East Times
American Osiris Rising: Obama's Symbols of Transformation

Here's a tiny url for the article.
http://tinyurl.com/62cpax

Unsurprisingly this is not the only website talking about Obama as the sun god or Osiris.

Dorothy
 
Not an end to the court cases before us about the citizenship of Obama. It may never be over

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin186.
YS
 
Well we all know the Christian evangelical community is a mess, and I won’t make any comment on the state of the Catholic Church for fear of restarting a blog war, but what’s going on in Mr. Obama’s “Jewish” neighborhood? Some claim Obama is not just the first “black president” but the “first Jewish president”.

What’s up with that?

Here are a few select excerpts from the Kam Isaiah Israel Synagogue website and the news article/bios available there. FYI: The KIIS synagogue is the oldest Jewish fellowship in Illinois and has been very much in the news as a result of the meteoric rise of their politically gifted neighbor….

Rabbi Jacob Wolf recently retired but still has an office at the synagogue, filled with holy texts and family photos. He describes the Jews who chose to stay in the neighborhood as "very proudly Jewish, but in a universalist mode - interfaith, left, liberal, integrationist. The others (Wolf says) moved away, to the suburbs.

“When Sarah Palin said she knew about Russia because you could see it from Alaska, I wanted to say, ‘Obama can see a synagogue from his house; he obviously knows Jews.’” [KIIS President, Larry Bloom]

The intense security that surrounds not just the Obama home, but also a few nearby blocks, makes visiting the synagogue a complicated affair: No unauthorized cars can enter the area, and the hearty pilgrims who park blocks away and enter by foot are subjected to checkpoints. But for a congregation that prides itself on having remained on Chicago’s largely black South Side when most Jews moved to the northern suburbs in the 1950s and ’60s, the excitement about its neighborhood — indeed, its block —producing the country’s first black president far outweighs the hassle of parking. “I’ve been channeling my parents lately, because 50 years ago, this was the dream,” said Roberta Siegel, an active KAM-II member whose father was the president of Isaiah Israel (prior to its merger with Kehilath Anshe Ma’arav, or KAM) in the 1950s.

Darryl Crystal is the Interim Rabbi of KAM Isaiah Israel. He was one of the first rabbis to be trained by the Institute for Jewish Spirituality, which teaches rabbi, cantors, and educators about spirituality through study of classic texts of mysticism and Jewish meditation.

[The Institute for Jewish Spirituality not only teaches various meditation techniques, but also Hatha Yoga and visualization as a CORE PRACTICE.]

And finally,

“This is a congregation where the question wasn’t, ‘Are you going to vote for Obama?’ The question was “What state are you going to help canvass?’” [Darryl Crystal, Kam Isaiah Israel synagogue’s interim rabbi]

http://www.kamii.org/

http://www.ijs-online.org/

To all the Jews, (messianics or not), evangelicals, protestants, catholics and other un-categorized “spiritual” people who blog here, maybe we should skip those Obama meetings and just start practicing Delphi resistance techniques in our own congregations. I think it would be a better use of our time. And by the way, I do expect Obama to speak at the synagogue sometime in the near future, standing right in front of the ARK.
 
To anonymous 1:47

Dorothy did exactly what I anticipated she would do- she admitted to everyone reading this blog how she feels about Jesus and the NT. She however is free to reject Christ, and obviously has her reasons. I had hoped that by encouraging her to share her reasons, someone here might be able to use Dorothy’s own brand of logic to direct her to Messiah. She refuses to share and that is her prerogative. Hope springs eternal and I’ll continue to pray for her as she encouraged me to do.

You on the other hand, are much less sincere, and your unprovoked attack on me speaks volumes about the type of person you are. Just as you attacked Paul, calling him a goldfish brain, you now attack me. Constance told me I’m welcome here. How about you? You are the mole here- not I. Attacking people for no reason other than YOU don’t like them demonstrates your true nature. As for me being full of myself- how so? Because I exposed you? You've got to keep belittling me without provocation, don't you? Because a dumb, uneducated person like myself can see through people like you a mile away. Make sure you tell your sins against me in confession and make a good act of contrition.

As for asking me to say something about the New Age, I'll oblige.

You are a perfect example of how the New Age operates. It's all about secrecy- without secrecy and hiding behind anonymity there would be no New World Order today. Secret societies are the crux of everything evil in society. The Freemasons have infiltrated every aspect of society from the ground up- the old pyramid again, posing as a group doing good works while at the very top they are Lucifer- worshipping minions that control the press, our education systems, the political systems, the economy, the entertainment industry, the think tanks and the powerful foundations that dictate public policy and create paradigm shifts in moral values. It's no big secret that secret societies have brought the world to a point where we are becoming just like the people in the days of Noah. Before the Freemasons and Illuminati it was the Gnostics who secretly handed along their depraved oral traditions and cult activities ; they hate the material world because God created it, and have no regard for mankind. Hitler was a perfect example of this, and this explains how he and his followers had no remorse about what they did to the Jews-God’s chosen people. The Hadron Collider scientists and the current political leaders, entertainment leaders, media leaders, etc. are all Gnostics in my opinion- despising the material world that is God’s creation. They want to destroy anything connected to my God, and they believe the only way to the ultimate spirituality of being like Gods themselves and attaining immortality is through Occult knowledge, handed down through the centuries through SECRET societies. They are looking to birth their own brand of Lucifer –inspired humanity through occultic Gnossis, and billions of people are signing their names unwittingly on the dotted lines through their involvement in Jewish, Islamic, Catholic , Protestant and New age mysticism. These humanists are androgynous in their sexual attitudes because they are pagan in nature and have no respect for God's laws of morality-anything goes because they only wish to destroy everything that God created-including his rules for living morally. The Gnostics were secretive too, hiding behind their anonymous aliases to deceive and foment chaos- Does that ring a bell here? Now they are coming out in the open with their disgusting perversions of all things relating to Jesus and the Bible, because the world has abandoned God. Many of the churches that are still well attended are only that way because they are being spoon fed pablum- what they want to hear- and it has nothing to do with the truth! Other secret societies that have propagated occultism are the Kaballists- Kaballah is just another name for the Tree of Knowledge. In addition, the revered (by you) Ignatius of Loyola learned mind control as a result of his injury. He then founded the Jesuits and taught them mind control ,too!- Jesuits are another secret society that has infiltrated society and the Catholic church with mysticism. I’m not saying all Jesuits are bad, but I’m saying the secret teachings that have been handed down by some of the Jesuits have resulted in the spreading of New Age doctrine- Teilhard deJardin (SP?)is a perfect example . I don’t wish to re-visit that argument, but it is thanks to that last argument that I finally read up on the Jesuits and learned more about Ignatius and his mysticism. Before Jesuits and Kabalists and Gnostics we had the mystery religions of Egypt, Babylon and Sumeria courtesy of the secret knowledge of the Nephalim, which was handed down to their offspring, and which God warned about constantly in the Old Testament. Ever wonder why David poked Goliath in his third eye? Ever read the gospel of Jude? Ever wonder about the demon that the Witch of Endor produced for Saul? The unholy union between Nephalim and human women resulted in the giants and filthy perversions in what God had intended in creation. That’s why He destroyed the animals and people of the earth in the Great Flood. But the secret knowledge of divination returned after the flood, and although the Nephalim were imprisoned in the Earth by God through Enoch, mankind’s channeling with these fallen angels produced the demons that haunt the earth today. It's all recorded in the Book of Enoch, but since that's not part of canon anymore I’ll be challenged on this one. The Catholic Church removed the Book of Enoch, as well as the Book of Revelation, from canon in the third century BC, possibly because they simply couldn’t understand either book. This book is critical in understanding what is happening NOW in our world. It explains the roots of everything occult, from metallurgy, astrology, herbal secrets and war to other SECRETS that God did not intend for mankind to have. The Nephalim were fallen angels, they rebelled against God because they lusted after women, and they are being kept captive in the earth and in the Euphrates until Armageddon. People involved in the occult evoke demons, they invite them to enter them- this is why there is so much demonic activity on earth, because the secret societies have handed these evil traditions and secrets down through the centuries. The Nephalim appeared in the time of Jared- 500 years from the time of Adam and Lucifer's first occult experiment in the Garden of Eden. Hence, we can trace the roots of evil and occultic activity all the way back in time, and the one thing that was necessarily for the propagation of all this evil was secrecy!

So that's why the fact that you continue to remain anonymous shows me YOUR true colors. Criticize me all you want anonymous. It just continues to reveal to others what kind of person you are. I am not afraid of you, and I will not allow you to continue to insult me .

You asked me to contribute here, and I am glad you did!
 
ANONYMOUS 8:27 PM
You must have spent a lot of time reading KAMII bulletins. One would get the impression from what you wrote that the temple did nothing but get involved in New Age practices and support Obama when in fact that information was connected to the interim rabbi and a few references to Obama. The temple membership is very liberal, but what else would you expect of a temple near the University of Chicago, that very, very liberal university.

The fact is that there is another synagogue in that Hyde Park community which also has members who teach at the University of Chicago. That's the conservative Congregation Rodfei Zedek.
http://www.rodfei.org/
I know because I belonged there for many years until I retired and encountered health problems which keep me from making the trip an hour away every Saturday.

I came to learn about Rabbi Gertel through another rabbi who I can contacted to warn him about the New Age movement. He told me to contact Rabbi Gertel. I found the rabbi to be very aware of the movement. He had me come as a speaker. Over the years he has warned about the New Age movement in articles and columns. He is a prolific author who has written several books. He also spoke about the New Age movement and its dangers at High Holiday services and many times on the Sabbath. Many congregant became aware of New Age as a result of his efforts. Unfortunately they did not become activists.

A small correction. The Delphi technique is not used very often in churches and synagogues as those that are to use it require formal training. Church and synagogue committees usually are not very large and are more into squabbling than manipulation. The Delphi technique is generally used when large groups of people are being convinced to go in a certain pre-planned direction.

Dorothy
 
Young Grasshopper,

I'm not the same anonymous 1:47, but are you accusing this poster of being a freemason. I thought it was rude, but how can you tell he's (or she's) part of a secret society? Maybe you're part of some secret society. Who would know? I didn't read all of the book you wrote 'cause it was too long. My eyes couldn't focus any longer.
 
MARYANNE - YG
Slow down. The stew of information you put together has way too many ingredients and is overcooked.

What's with all of the conversion efforts. Is there a prize of $100 out there for every Jew that is converted? Is there some kind of tipping point that says if there is a certain number of Christians in the world the Messiah will come?

Getting old means I have a lot of experience behind me. I've run into hundreds of people and organizations who want control of my mind or my soul, all for my own good of course. There are salespersons of all sorts, from cosmetic peddlers to religion peddlers. But you know what. I truly believe I have free will to make my own decisions and the more I know the more I am able to use it. I try to be polite to all of the salespersons no matter how rude and insulting they are about what they think I should be doing.

It's something everyone should try to practice.

Dorothy
 
Correction:
Book of Enoch was removed from canon in the third century AD not BC. I am commenting in car from a Blackberry as I am on the road and this is not easy to do!

Links on the Council of Laodicia that removed the book from Canon-

http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/enoch.htm that removed the book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Laodicea

(Can't do tinyurl without a mouse!)

In it we read,

"This and many other books became discredited after the Council of Laodicea. And being under ban of the authorities, afterwards it gradually passed out of circulation. "



If you read about the Council of Laodicea, it's pretty obvious they were more involved with conduct of church members than whether or not the books of Canon were divinely inspired. IN fact they took out the Book of Revelation at that time and kept the Book of Baruch and the Epistle of Jeremy in. So there is certainly a lot of in and out over time! Also, when the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, manuscripts from the Book of Enoch were found with them.


To anonymous 9:54- I did not say the person was a Freemason. I said by being anonymous and therefore secretive, that person was doing exactly the kind of thing that has given evil free reign in this world! I am not rude. The person harassing me is rude.
 
Thanks Dorothy,

You are being wooed because you are a big prize.

That being said I gave you a chance to convince me I am wrong about my faith.

The tares are being separated from the wheat very soon. I'd like to have you on my side of the battle field.

It's that simple.

YG
 
MARYANNE
Flattery won't get you anywhere. I know better.

Let those who wish to stay anonymous do so without attack. They just don't want to put up with the kind of personal attention I've had to deal with because I'm Jewish.

Dorothy
 
Joyce,
I'm so glad we agree. God bless you.

Love,
Barb
 
I'd like to straighten out the historical record here.. Judaism is not 4000 years old.. Moses did not practice Judaism, neither did Abraham. Moses received the Torah at Mt Sinai. Up until perhaps, and that is even debatable, the Babylonian exile there was no such thing as Judaism..

There was all Israel ( not only the House of Judah) who were a people set apart by God to be in relationship with Him and to inherit a land and to be a blessing to the other families of the earth. Read the Torah!

Judaism has take things from Torah and added the rabbis opinions to them. Judiasm doesn't have a Temple, animal sacrifices, a Holy of Holies where the High Priest goes once a year to make atonement for the people.

Judaism is what developed when the Jews were punished by God for their disobedience and scattered among the nations. They developed a synagogue system, the oral traditions which they claim go back to Moses but have no proof of. Judaism is not unified like Israel under Torah which was a nation, but Judaism is a very fragmented religion where some practice mysticism, some are Orthodox, some are Reform, etc, etc.

God meant for Israel to be a people under Torah. Excuse me but Judaism is not too intellectually demanding for people to follow...Jews are supposed to be a light to the nations, not to develop a system that is supposedly too "intellectually demanding".
I can just imagine God saying to Moses.. Hey Moishe, I'm going to give you something that's so hard, no one will want to be bothered following it..give me a break!

The Jews are supposed to be a light to the nations and teach Torah, along with the rest of Israel which has now lost it's identity due to exile and assimilation ( the other 10 tribes).

Don't confuse Judaism and Torah. Judaism may very well be based on Torah, but all the discussions that Rabbi X says this and Rabbi Y says that. Those are men discussing their opinions of Torah. They are not prophets like Elijah, or Isaiah. They are men..Rashi may be a famous rabbi, but he was no Elijah.

In the absence of the presence of the shekinah glory of God in their midst, Jews have tried to codify Torah, which is very different than what Moses or King David lived. An "ism" can never be the same thing as a relationship with the Living God.

I submit to you, without Yeshua's blood, the Jews cannot draw close to God, because there is not Temple, no sacrifices, etc..which are necessary.

Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.. Judaism has no means of making atonement. All the "mitzvah" in the world do not fulfill the righteous requirements that God laid out in His Torah.

By the Second Temple period, there was Judaism and it was a mess. The Jews were very divided. They did not even all agree on what day to celebrate Passover...The 10 tribes had become gentiles, for all intensive purposes. That was the world that Yeshua revealed Himself in. They were under Roman occupation, wishing for a political victory over the Romans, but Yeshua gave them victory over sin and some understood this, and some didn't. The leaders of the nation of Israel, who were corrupt, rejected Him, the fishermen and some of the despised, the prostitutes or tax collectors followed Him. Those who were "sick" knew that they needed a doctor.. Those who were proud and self-righteous and thought their religion would save them, could not hear His voice...

If studying and being intellectual would save us, there would be no reason for the Son of Man to come and give His life for the ransom of many or to quote Isaiah ( for the sake of space I will not post all of Isaiah 53)

Is. 53:10-11 But the LORD was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the 4good epleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. As a result of the 1anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.

God left a means for the Jews to atone for their sins, but they must appropriate it i.e. put their faith in Yeshua's death for the forgiveness of their sins.. They don't stop being Jews...they just have the ability to approach the throne of God, or to be in the place of HaMaqom ( face to face relationship with Him).

God says He is going to put Torah on the hearts of the House of Judah and Ephraim( House of Israel) this will happen under the Covenant of Peace which will be when Yeshua is ruling the all the tribes and the nations from Jerusalem. All the Jewish tradition in the world is not a substitute for the Living Torah...when we will see God's glory in our midst. If you read the Bible the difference is clear.

Post-babylon, no ark, post Yeshua, no Temple, no sacrifices. and no blood and no prophets. The problem with Judaism is not its intellectual demands.. The problem is there is no shedding of blood...and therefore the Jews remain without a means of atonement..Sorry, but Torah says this not me..

Lev. 17:11 ‘For the 1life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for bit is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.’


God never changed this commandment. and therefore Judaism has no remedy for sin, except the ones that the rabbis come up with that are not written in Torah like doing "good works" The Torah never says by doing "mitzvahs" we can earn our way to salvation...

So...without Yeshua, the ultimate High Priest, Judaism falls short of the accomplishing the righteous requirements that God set out in Torah.


Joyce
 
To Maryanne/YG (8:27 PM & 10:34 PM)

WOW . . . it looks like I have really missed out on a lot being away from this blog for a few days (both reading as well as posting).

Now, that I've caught up - you need to know that even though you and I debated a few threads back, I am NOT the anonymous poster from either 1:47 PM or 9:54 PM.

So, it looks like maybe you have two new anyonmous posters who you believe are "harassing" you? I guess maybe they're all evil "Freemasons" who are simply out to get you. LOL

Dear, have you considered therapy? You seem to have a problem with both reason and logic.

There are many people who choose to post anonymously on Constance's blog . . . and none of us feel the need to explain or apologize to you for doing so.

Have a nice day.
 
Maryanne,

Don't let the noise drive you off the blog. Some of us here really like your posts.. Your openness and sincerity are qualities that add to the blog!

Setterman,

Amen...there's nothing new about mystical interpretations of the Bible is there? .As the snake said in the Garden, "Did God really say?" I'm glad we don't have to be too smart to be saved, or as Paul said..

1Cor. 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1Cor. 1:27 but aGod has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of bthe world to shame the things which are strong,

1Cor. 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise.
1Cor. 3:19-20 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, “He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS”; and again, “THE LORD KNOWS THE REASONINGS of the wise, THAT THEY ARE USELESS.”

I guess Paul said it better than I can.
Blessings,
Joyce
 
To all Catholic posters:

Please don't allow Maryanne's rants toward the Catholic Church to drive any of you off this blog.

She clearly has issues that have nothing to do with you Catholic posters.

She obviously needs "scapegoats" for her hostility.
 
TO EVERYONE WHO READS HERE
Joyce doesn't understand Judaism though she pretends she does. She is no longer a Jew as she has converted to Christianity.

She is following a pattern Jews are familiar with and which I described earlier. It is a pattern that has been repeated throughout history. It is a pattern that will be used on Christians by New Agers, so make yourself aware of it.

First there is the outreach in a welcoming way, using identification with the target. Next there is persistence. Finally if the target refuses to bend, out comes the anger and frustration leading to violence.

As I was told by a powerful New Age leader, the only difference between the Nazi movement and the New Age movement is that this time we would be able to choose to go along. Remember that in the New Age writings it says Christians and Jews will not be allowed to hold back the progress of the human race.

As you have seen, the history of Christianity will be distorted just as Joyce is distorting Jewish history.

Be prepared and take this opportunity to learn how its done.

Dorothy
 
Dorothy,
The word Jews isn't even used in the Bible until the Babylonian exile. King David and Solomon both ruled all of Israel, even though they were from the tribe of Judah, when you read David's Psalms he praises Torah...

Psa. 119:1 How blessed are those whose way is blameless,
Who walk in the Torah of the LORD.


David, Solomon, Hezekiah, Josiah never followed Judaism...they follow Torah and there's a difference. There wasn't a rabbinic system. There were Kings, Prophets and Priests...Excuse me, but I have not distorted anything. You cannot provide one ounce of evidence from the Scriptures that Judaism existed prior to the Babylon.. Even after Babylon, it developed over time.

God does not want to leave His people in exile.. He wants them to come into relationship with Him which is only possible when there is atonement for sin. All you can do is criticize, but you can't produce one piece of Biblical evidence for your position. I sent quotes from the Scriptures...You send insults...Sorry, but you don't have a leg to stand on, except the rabbis...

I am not opposed to rabbis, I just think that they are trying to hold up a system that doesn't conform to Torah.. They will use Torah to try to justify it but they leave out the important passages about atonement from sin and make up new interpretations...You can't change God's Word.. God doesn't change, and you can insult me all you want but go to your Torah and read it yourself without the help of rabbis.. It's really not too intellectual to understand. God doesn't keep secrets from His children and make it hard to come to Him. He gave us the Way...

Since the Temple, you have no legitimate Torah means of atoning for sin. If you can show me one verse in the Bible that says otherwise great..but I have read the Bible numerous times in my life and there is nothing!

Korban, which is the Hebrew word for sacrifice means to draw near actually, and without that you have to fabricate ways to draw near. It's not Jewish identity that saves us.. it's blood. The first animal was slain in Bereshit to cover Adam and Eve.. If the fig leaves would have worked, why did God kill and animal?

Joyce
 
THANK YOU CONSTANCE AND DOROTHY

Richard Abanes' works "against the New Age" in my opinion -- books which pretty much parroted much if not all of what I had reported for which he personally gave me persecution were, in my opinion, to give him bona fides as a spokesman for Rick Warren and to give him bona fides in the Jewish community, while all the time he is linked openly up with the Christian Reconstruction Movement, which as Dorothy Margraf and I well know is the very essence of anti-Jewish anti-Semitism!

It's an old game -- establish oneself as the "expert" and then attack those who dare go beyond the pre-defined perimeters to actually uncover the truth!


Constance,

Thanks for this important reminder. Perhaps the most vital thing I have learned from reading this blog is how insidious the technique of disinformation is, from both inside and outside "religious" communities. Constance and Dorothy have continued to highlight this, sometimes at length, warning everyone who has ears to hear just how pervasive and insidious this technique can be, and to be vigilant.

Okay, bracing now for the inevitable posts from Young Grasshapper, Paul, etc. stating how Gary Kah, Richard Abanes, Hal Lindsay, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, etc. have written some "godly books" LOL
 
Dorothy did exactly what I anticipated she would do- she admitted to everyone reading this blog how she feels about Jesus and the NT. She however is free to reject Christ, and obviously has her reasons. I had hoped that by encouraging her to share her reasons, someone here might be able to use Dorothy’s own brand of logic to direct her to Messiah.

Young Grasshopper:

How did you formulate the notion that one of the purposes of this forum is to give you a platform to convert Jews to Christianity?

How would you feel if a group Jews, Muslims, or Catholics came here and tried to cajole you into defending your Evangelical beliefs and demanded that you "share" your reasons for not accepting their faith?

Are the techniques you exhibit on this forum something they teach at your church for converting "non-believers," or did you come up with them yourself?
 
Dorothy,
If you just want to blindly follow your rabbi go ahead.. that's your business, but don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.. I know perfectly well what I'm talking about...

Judaism is to intellectually demanding.. Give me a break!! Yes, you have to go to Harvard to serve God..How arrogant is that? I'm sorry, but you are way off base. You think you are intellectually superior to everyone on this blog as a Jew. Did you know that Moses was the most humble man who ever lived..?

I'm just a stupid Jew who was willing to humble myself and know that I can't do enough good work to please a Holy God. All of my good works ( and I do them) do not allow me to go into the Holy of Holies...or to approach the throne in Heaven. Open your eyes and read Torah and see what it says. Only the High Priest could go in and only once a year. You think God just did away with the righteous requirements. Is He a man, that He changes His mind? God is holy, holy, holy and we cannot approach Him the way we are..

Without the forgiveness of our transgressions, no one will see the kingdom of God, and the condition for the forgiveness of our transgressions is the shedding of blood..humbling ourselves before a holy God, who does not look lightly on transgressions, as we well know from reading Torah.

When Yeshua's blood was spilled He fuliflled that righteous requirement one time for all..One day very soon, you will have to admit something that you may not want to do...and say that I am right.. Until that time you can continue to find righteousness in intellectual the superiority of Judaism.. Judaism can have wonderful tidbits of wisdom, because part of it is rooted in Torah...but the stubborn refusal to see their Messiah is a severe limitation..

Even the feasts can only be celebrated as a memory because you don't have the animals and the Temple...I celebrate the mo'ed too, but I remember Yeshua whose blood is far more effective than the blood of bulls and goats, because God Himself came and shed His blood. If you reject such a great salvation, then there is no more remedy for sin. ( says the book of Hebrews)

Joyce
 
"UNPROVOKED" ATTACKS?

To Maryann, who writes:

"...(Y)our unprovoked attack on me speaks volumes about the type of person you are"

As Stephen Colbert might say, you, Maryann, appear to be "the victim of the law of cause and effect."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agonist
 
To the anonymous person who wrote to Maryanne,

I will give my answer to the question,even though I wasn't asked.

I am very happy to defend my faith to whoever asks, because the gospel of Yeshua the Messiah is the power of salvation to all who believe, first to the Jew and then to the Greek..

Not only am I happy to, but I welcome opportunities to share this good news...especially with people who are worried about the days we live in...It's great to recognize the hour, but if you don't know from where your Salvation will come, you're in big trouble.

I know, you weren't addressing me...that's okay, Maryanne can answer for herself too...

Joyce
 
"GOLDFISH BRAIN?"

Maryann,

Someone did use the simile that Paul had the "memory of a goldfish" but no one here has ever called Paul a "goldfish brain." If you disagree with me, and have read something that I didn't, produce the link.

With your self-described sensitivity to the arts, one would think you would be capable of understanding the difference between the terms "goldfish brain" and "memory of a goldfish."
 
Joyce (2:20),

Who exactly have you "converted" with your testimony in the many months you have been giving it here?

I'd be curious about your rate of success.
 
TO MARYANNE WHO SAYS:

"I am not rude. The person harassing me is rude"

Maryann, you are entertaining as all he*l sometimes. Earlier on this thread, you write:

"Hi Dorothy,

You're a piece of work aren't you? I get a kick out of you, too- you're like the feisty old grandmother that comes to visit and the kids love because she's feisty and will tell you that your feet stink and your gravy has lumps in it. You bite your tongue the whole time she visits out of respect, and when you finally get the nerve to retort to one of her insults you're sorry you did it because there is no reasoning with her. It's her way or none."

No Maryann, nothing rude about that is there?

The fact that Dorothy responds so graciously to your efforts is a tribute to her magnanimity which I suspect was, over a period of years, very hard won.
 
To Anonymous ( 2:20)

Since you have been been faithfully, reading my comments, you will know that I don't convert anyone...nor can I. That's a work of the Ruach HaKodesh ( Holy Spirit)..

I wasn't trying to convert Dorothy, simply correct her error in saying that Judaism is a 4000 year old religion. That's rubbish, and it's a misnomer that's been propagated which obscures the truth of Torah. I suspect most of the people on this blog know Yeshua.

Yeshua corrected much of what was being done in the Judaism of His day, by clearly explaining ( and living ) the heart and intentions of Torah...for example in His talk "It was said that you shall not commit adultery but I say.......etc. Yeshua was the Torah who came in the flesh..He never promoted Judaism.. He always went to the written Word. He corrected the Pharisees who were trying to hold His disciples to Jewish tradition when they said, "Your followers don't wash their hands..." Washing hands wasn't a requirement of Torah it was a tradition.. He saw their hearts and called them on it...Read the gospels and you will see...

Yeshua said, I didn't come to abolish the Torah, but to fill it to the full measure with meaning until it is overflowing ...to translate that phrase according tot the meaning of the Greek.

Now, Dorothy corrects people's mistakes all the time, so I don't see what the big deal is..

Proclaiming truth, is just that...I have had the pleasure and privilege to make disciples..which is actually what we are called to do. There is no where in Scripture where we are called to make "converts" but disciples..

I was also responding the false premise that we need to be intellectual to know God...I'm just so glad that the God I serve is no respecter of persons.. That means being intellectual is not a requirement to enter the Kingdom of God. Yeshua said unless we come like children we will not see the Kingdom of God. He wasn't talking about child prodigy's. He was referring to those with simple faith.

Torah does not equal Judaism and I want to carefully make that distinction. I am not opposed to all that Judaism teaches because there is teaching from Torah, but teaching from Torah without the revelation of Yeshua as the Living Torah, has its limitations. I firmly believe the Jews who practice Rabbinic Judaism have compensated for the fact that God's shekinah glory is not manifesting as in the days of the Temple..

The other fact is that there is a partial hardening which has come to Israel until the fulness of the nations comes in according to Romans 11, but we might be approaching the where the veil is being lifted. I know many Jewish believers, so I suspect it is...

I'm happy to plant a few seeds here an there, but the growth comes from God and I never forget that..


Now, anonymous what have you done here that you would like to share with us?
Joyce
 
Here's what Paul says:

2Cor. 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
2Cor. 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2Cor. 4:5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake.

On this blog we talk a lot about the New Age...what is the New Age but part of this world system that blinds people from seeing the Glory of Messiah, who is the image of God. What good does it do to know about Ervin Lazlo, but not have the Water of Life? What good does it do to be able to recognize the schemes of the god of this world without knowing the One who has the power to rescue us? That's my question? If we don't know the truth, I'm not sure that we are any better off than the New Agers..according to this verse, we are still perishing..

Prayer obviously is the most important thing we can do.. of course and I will keep praying for any and all on this blog who don't have a saving knowledge of Yeshua the Messiah. The rest is in God's hands.

Joyce
 
I would like to get something off my chest.

As an outsider and frequent reader of this blog, I have noticed something very disturbing. There is a clear lack of RESPECT from certain posters (e.g. Joyce, Maryanne, Paul) toward others' religious beliefs on this blog.

The end result is that the "offended" posters justifiably feel the need to defend themselves against their antagonizers. Next, "the big 3" tend to step up their antagonism, play the "victim" role, and try to manipulate and influence the rest of the bloggers.

Don't you think it's time for all of this manipulation and "head game playing" to cease and desist?

This is a major "turn off" to the rest of us out there who are simply trying to learn everything we can about the New Age Movement, which SHOULD be the main reason why we are all here.

Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to vent.
 
Well, let’s see, we all know the Christian evangelical community is a mess, and I won’t make any comment on the state of the Catholic Church for fear of restarting a blog war, but what’s going on in Mr. Obama’s “Jewish” neighborhood? Anybody know the percentage of Jewish voters who voted for pro-abortion pro-euthanasia Obama? Some even claim Obama is not just the first “black president” but the “first Jewish president” as well.

What’s up with that?

Here are a few select excerpts from the Kam Isaiah Israel Synagogue website and the news article/bios available there. FYI: The KIIS synagogue is the oldest Jewish fellowship in Illinois and has been very much in the news as a result of the meteoric rise of their politically gifted neighbor….

Rabbi Jacob Wolf recently retired but still has an office at the synagogue, filled with holy texts and family photos. He describes the Jews who chose to stay in the neighborhood as "very proudly Jewish, but in a universalist mode - interfaith, left, liberal, integrationist. The others (Wolf says) moved away, to the suburbs.

“When Sarah Palin said she knew about Russia because you could see it from Alaska, I wanted to say, ‘Obama can see a synagogue from his house; he obviously knows Jews.’” [KIIS President, Larry Bloom]

The intense security that surrounds not just the Obama home, but also a few nearby blocks, makes visiting the synagogue a complicated affair: No unauthorized cars can enter the area, and the hearty pilgrims who park blocks away and enter by foot are subjected to checkpoints. But for a congregation that prides itself on having remained on Chicago’s largely black South Side when most Jews moved to the northern suburbs in the 1950s and ’60s, the excitement about its neighborhood — indeed, its block —producing the country’s first black president far outweighs the hassle of parking. “I’ve been channeling my parents lately, because 50 years ago, this was the dream,” said Roberta Siegel, an active KAM-II member whose father was the president of Isaiah Israel (prior to its merger with Kehilath Anshe Ma’arav, or KAM) in the 1950s.

(I'm sure Ms. Siegel's "channeling" comment was meant to be a joke, still the use of the term is quite inappropriate, don't you think? Especially in light of the interim Rabbi Darryl Crystal's background and training.)

Darryl Crystal is the Interim Rabbi of KAM Isaiah Israel. He was one of the first rabbis to be trained by the Institute for Jewish Spirituality, which teaches rabbi, cantors, and educators about spirituality through study of classic texts of mysticism and Jewish meditation.

[The Institute for Jewish Spirituality not only teaches various meditation techniques, but also Hatha Yoga and visualization as a CORE PRACTICE.]

And finally,

“This is a congregation where the question wasn’t, ‘Are you going to vote for Obama?’ The question was “What state are you going to help canvass?’” [Darryl Crystal, Kam Isaiah Israel synagogue’s interim rabbi]

http://www.kamii.org/

http://www.ijs-online.org/

To all the Jews, (messianics or not), evangelicals, protestants, catholics and other un-categorized self proclaimed “spiritual” people who blog here, maybe we should skip those Obama meetings and just start practicing Delphi resistance techniques in our own congregations. Seems we’ve had enough practice here on this blog to make us all experts. I think it would be a much better use of our time.

There. Hopefully I’ve insulted everyone equally.
 
Dear Anonymous,

Hiding behind your anonymity doesn't make you righteous.

Joyce
 
I’ve been looking for any evidence that Obama has “officially” been invited to speak in the Kam Isaiah Israel temple. So far haven't found any. I was just thinking it would be most fascinating to see him standing in a Jewish Byzantine temple, before the Ark, preaching directly over the Torah.

But then again, Obama does have a rabbi in the family and maybe he will speak here first...

http://www.forward.com/articles/14148/
 
OLD MAN
I responded to those comments some time ago. It was rude of you to repost them. They were first posted by someone who claimed to be anonymous at 8:27 pm. I responded at 9:44 pm.

Whether or not you are that anonymous, those comments were insulting and misleading. They were meant to convey a negative impression of Judaism by making a connection between the New Age movement and Judaism out of context on a website that fights the New Age movement, particularly after a series of posts by Joyce who distorts the values of Judaism and seems to not take seriously the commandment to not bear false witness.

Many Jews do look at the antics of people like Joyce and condemn Christianity as a whole. I do not and will not do that. I could spend my days chasing down factual material to counter her distortions, but I will not be stopped in my battle against the New Age movement in order to argue with an anonymous someone who is obviously involved in a movement to create a one world religion by showing how religions should be blended even if that blending is based on untruths.

Maryanne is set for a fight against anonymous posters, yet supports Joyce who we know nothing about...her full name, her affiliated organizations, her location, and where she goes on all of those trips. Perhaps it's all innocent, but Maryanne, why don't you spend some time convincing Joyce to not be such a negative picture of Christianity.

For over 25 years it has been clear that all of the religions have been infiltrated by those promoting the New Age movement. We do not condemn all Christians because some have eaten the poison, but what we are seeing is a wholesale attack against Jews and Catholics, not Muslims, Buddhists, Confucians, Zoroastrians, Hindus or any other religion by certain posters. What we have been seeing on this website is a divide and conquer attack by certain writers who write against the two religions who were the first two targets of the New Age movement, Catholics and Jews, a tactic used by the Nazi movement. And the good people stand by and let it happen.

Fighting back against the New Age movement is not an academic experience, a historian's approach to factual material. If it was, politicians with the use of their intelligance communities could completely control events in the world. Fighting the New Age movement means stepping out from the crowd and actually DOING SOMETHING that stops a branch of it, not just passively examining the details of what is happening, letting manipulators take control of the direction the audience is being taken.

I will answer some of Joyce's comments later, but I know it will do no good as she will go back into her little bag of quotes and toss more distorted material out, wearing everyone out before they actually confront her. "Oh just don't read her" is not a valid response. It's the response of those who want to not be made uncomfortable by the world around them.

Dorothy
 
OLD MAN
Here's the complete story.

http://www.forward.com/articles/14148/

The Obamas could attend services at that rabbi's synagogue as it is near the Hyde Park community, but as the article states they are not in touch. Obviously the political connections were with Rev. Wright's church and not with Rabbi Capers. How do I know these things. Members of that congregation often come to Congregation Rodfei Zedek for services.
 
I provided that last piece of information.

Dorothy
 
Well I have been trying to tutor myself in this delphi thing. There is much I don't know about it, I am still looking and learning.

I remember hearing Constance write (and say later) that one of the goals of the New Age movement is to pit Jews, Christians, and Catholics against each other.

They don't want us to come together they want us to continue to fight among ourselves so we will look up from our fight and see that they have infiltrated our communities, churches, and sometimes our families.

That are many times that I read posts on this blog and I think about the Proverb that says, "Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. Better to be of a humble spirit with the lowly.."

I would love to say much more. But can we get back to New Age research and help each other in that?

Maybe I am naive or young or both but I tend to trust those who have been researching longer than I have. I tend not to do as much research about it.

Oh what do I know, I am only 36.
 
Hi Dorothy,
Yes, I'm an awful person...All I said was Torah is not the same as Talmud Judaism, and that's a historic fact.
In the absence of a Temple and priesthood the Jews came up with ways of trying to live out their faith in the diaspora, and they are still doing it today.

The claim is that these oral traditions go back to Moses, but there was nothing written down until centuries and centuries later..

It is the fact that Jews, instead of examining the texts pay more attention to Talmud, Mishnah, halakah, etc. to the detriment of the texts of the Scriptures. There are rabbis in the Yeshivas in Jerusalem that say this...this is how they're discovering Yeshua..

As for what I do in my private life and whether I am a good believer in Yeshua or not, you don't know.. I haven't said, whether or not your a good representative of Judaism because I'm not attacking YOU Dorothy.. I'm bringing to light things that I have discovered in my research. By the way, I have also criticisms of historical Christianity for some of the same reasons.. You don't add or take away from God's Word.. I just have an awesome respect for God's Word, so stop being so sensitive. This isn't about you..

On the converse, I have critiqued Christianity here because it ignores Torah, but I didn't hear you jump on me about that.. In case you haven't figured it out, my loyalty is not to an organization or to a religion or to an "ism" it's too the Scriptures. I don't believe followers of Yeshua, from Jewish origins are any less Jews than you are, so you cannot accuse me of anti-Semitism.. I am explaining to Christians how Judaism developed, and it is not 100% Torah and you cannot argue the point with me, because you know it's the truth.

Oral tradition is oral tradition.... There is no proof that it came from Moses, and if it was so accurate then all Jews would agree. As it stands they don't. I as a Jew am expressing my disagreement with what has happened in historic Judaism. I'm not expressing it as a Christian.. I am not an anti-Semite because I love my people, the Jewish people. I just think some of what they believe is off-base, just like you think the New Agers are off base.. If I as a Jew don't have a right to express that, then you have no right to talk about the New Agers, because they could be offended too..

I just happen to believe that Torah will go out from Mt. Zion:

Is. 2:3 And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”

Now if you think I have wrongly interpreted something, I'm happy to hear from you, but if you just want to send petty insults, then I think that's a waste of both of our time..

Shalom,
Joyce
 
Cindy,

Here is how to do tiny URL.

Go to the Tiny URL site here:

http://tinyurl.com/

Just follow the prompt and enter your long URL into the box and hit the button that says "make tiny URL."

Once your tiny URL comes up, you can test it by clicking onto the link directly beneath the URL.

I hope you find this helpful. If you have any questions, ask away. :-)
 
LOL Sorry, Rudi. I just saw that you had already beaten me to the punch on helping Cindy with her Tiny URL problem. But as the saying goes, "two is better than none," right? :-)
 
BRAVO and AMEN to both:

Dorothy's 11:05 AM post
and
Dawn's 11:45 AM post

Many of us here on Constance's blog are very grateful for your wise and mature perspective.

Thank you.
 
I apprerciate Joyce's support of Israel. But then she wrote: "We need to have the Torah written on our hearts which is impossible without Yeshua."

As a Jew I know this to be utter nonsense. In his Chapter 31 Jeremiah mentioned that, in the future, Jews will have Torah written in there hearts. This is a prophecy that means they will have internalized it so will no longer need to have it taught them. But Jeremiah would turn in his grave if he saw Joyce's interpretation of his totally Jewish work.

Jeremiah Ch. 31 is about Jews and for Jews only. It has nothing to do with gentiles or with the Christian Bible notwithstanding its reference to a new covenant.
 
As a new kid on the block I quickly see that I will have some dialogue with Joyce. I am an Orthodox Jew who respects Christianity as well as Christian support of Israel. But I must respectfully correct mistatements about Judaism. A little learning is a dangerous thing.

The word "Judaism" derives from Judah, a son of Jacob, who was given the name Israel by God's angel. Judah was the surviving kingdom after the northern kingdom of Israel was conquered by Assyria and ten tribes dispersed. Judah was Abraham's great grandson. While Judaism is not 4000 years old it is over 3000.

Of course the Torah was given to neither of these but to Moses' generation hundreds of years later. But Abraham, who led the world to monotheism, is considered the first Jew by genealogical considerations and by God's promises to him.

Joyce wrote that "Yeshua corrected much of what was being done in the Judaism of His day" but rabbis are always doing this, including the Pharisees of Jesus' era. Notwithstanding Christian Bible statements to the contrary a good case can be made that Jesus was a Pharisee himself because it is the Pharises who had liberal views and from whom today's Jews are descended. Christians give Jesus credit for liberalizing Torah whereas somme of his ideas were Pharisee ones.

Joyce's statement that "Yeshua was the Torah who came in the flesh," is strange to say the least. If that were so his followers would not have invented Christianity as a rival religion, with its many contradictions of the Torah. While he may not have abolished the Torah his followers did when they succeeded it with their "New Testament;" notwithstanding the Torah's command not to add or subtract from itself.

Joyce's view that "Torah does not equal Judaism" is partly true because Torah is explained by the Talmud and many other works. But that does not seem to be what Joyce meeans. Her view is that "Torah without the revelation of Yeshua as the Living Torah, has its limitations." With all due respect this is nonsense.

Judaism has done quite well in its diaspora survival for 2000 years while many of its persecuters have vanished. We continue to worship the Father and study and observe Torah faithfully. Thank God we have had the merit to see some of the Torah's prophecies come to fruition in our generation.

Peace and blessing,
Len
 
To Dorothy,

I think this particular comment thread has to rate as "Number one all-time best" in my book simply because of the sheer scope of important practical information you have managed to so articulately and concisely relay herein and that is very difficult to find on one's own.

You've pinned down complex and somewhat obscure yet essential ideas in a few paragraphs, ones that I (and I suspect others) will be able to apply immediately to so many aspects of fighting the NA movement.

Well done!
 
I would like to add another outsider observation to Anon 8:55's.

Months ago I used to look forward to Maryann's posts because she presented a lot of good research usually in a very cogent way. I also thought she had a nice presence. I was disappointed when she took her fine blog down, but I understood and accepted her reasons for doing so as valid ones.

More recently she seems to have myteriously morphed into "Joyce Jr."--with a special emphasis on the Roman Catholic Church as her favorite punching bag.

I really wish the old Maryanne would return.
 
Dorothy,

You wrote: "I responded to those comments some time ago. It was rude of you to repost them. They were first posted by someone who claimed to be anonymous at 8:27 pm. I responded at 9:44 pm."

First, let me apologize. I did post the 8:27 comment, but I always use my moniker, and when I went back this morning to look for any responses, I couldn't find my original comment as a starting point. I figured I must have closed out my browser before posting last night, but obviously I must have hit the "anon" button by mistake. So I reposted the same comment again this morning, this time using my familiar moniker. (By the way, I’ve made my real name known to Constance and many of the other bloggers who post here.) I have no problem accepting responsibility for what I write.

You wrote:

"Whether or not you are that anonymous, those comments were insulting and misleading. They were meant to convey a negative impression of Judaism by making a connection between the New Age movement and Judaism out of context on a website that fights the New Age movement..."

FACT: All the quotes I copied were taken directly from the Kami leadership, their own website, and the various articles their website linked too. Those quotes ACCURATELY reflect the viewpoint of the leadership of that particular synagogue. If you are offended by those viewpoints, and the liberal ideology/theology that a particular "Jewish" fellowship has embraced, then take it up with the leadership of that particular synagogue.

To claim that any criticism of a particular Jewish fellowship is off limits because it smears all Jews, is just plain absurd. I certainly don’t take offense when Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven NEW AGE ideas are exposed for what they are. Quite the opposite, I’m just glad someone else has noticed the infiltration.

If the information I posted reflects badly on all Jews, so be it. However, that was certainly not my intent. But then again, perhaps you think all those new age or overtly goofy TV preachers accurately reflect the entirety of Christendom? If they did, I’d be the first to give it up and go follow the rainbow.

Dorothy, if you really do consider yourself a warrior against the new age, then please address my primary question….

What percentage of Jewish voters voted for Obama?

Break the numbers down for us, Illinois voters and the rest of the country. I just want to see if you have the integrity to use your own research skills and look in your own backyard for information that might “convey a negative impression of Jews.”

And don't try to redirect the conversation into a Catholic/Protestant/Anti-semitic thing. As for me, if I had to choose between attending Rick Warren's Purpose Driven fellowship, or a Catholic church, I'd go Catholic, (providing of course the priest was one of those with the theological backbone to refuse communion for unrepentant Obama supporters.
 
Clarification: Communion was/is not refused to "unrepentant Obama supporters" as I quipped. Not exactly anyway. The precise statement from the Catholic Priest in question is as follows:

“Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ’s Church and under the judgment of divine law,” Fr. Newman wrote.

He further added such persons should not receive Holy Communion until they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14353

Political endorsements from religious leaders are certainly legal. And where politics crosses moral lines, those leaders have a responsibility to speak out.

But just imagine the outrage in the media, and the calls to revoke the tax exempt status of an evangelical church, if one of their leaders made the same kind of statement in support of McCain/Palin as came from the interim rabbi of Kam Isaiah Israel Temple in support of Obama...

"We don't ask if you're going to vote for Obama, we ask which counties are you going to canvas!"
 
OLD MAN
I don't have a problem as you are always fair. Did you read my replies to your post?

I was upset with the post for one main reason. People reading here have much information about Christianity, but very little information about Judaism. They know that New Age has penetrated some but not all parts of Christianity.

Jews and Judaism are small in number and by percentage of the larger community. Very few people know much about Judaism, and when they read something they think they know all there is to know about Jews. (Yes, I know there are Jews who act the same way toward Christians.) What you posted left the impression that that temple was more New Age than following the tenets of Judaism, and by extension that was how all Jews in that community acted. Maybe that isn't what you aimed to do, but that's how it came across.

The Orthodox Jewish community identifies very strongly with politically conservative values and work toward those goals. As they keep to themselves as a community, who knows what is happening there.

The more liberal religiously, the more politically liberal. I've had to think about this a lot as it bothers me also. There appears to me to be two reasons. One is that for centuries the Jewish community depended on its members for charity and other kinds of support. They then identified with other groups claiming to create a just larger society. Even now Jewish individuals and groups are involved in charitable work in large numbers. This carries over to and in many cases substitutes for formal religion.
http://judaism.about.com/od/beliefs/a/tzedakah_what.htm or
http://tinyurl.com/y7bljd Tzedakah substitutes for religious practice as a community binder.

The other thing is not so nice. Jews tend to be more successful than other groups, so in large numbes they identify with whoever is in power or who is a winner. Hot shot Jews like doing business with powerful others in and outside of the Jewish community, so ideals can go out the window. They can go to extremes in this regard, too worried about what brings shame to the Jewish community and too much crowing about anything successful no matter how marginally connected to the Jewish community.

Many Jews are overly suspicious about Christians and anything Christians support just as there are many Christians who want Jews to be copycats of Christians or be rejected.

Does it matter how many Jews voted for Obama? Compared to the number of voters in any other block group, the numbers are very small. Have you asked anywhere how many blacks voted for Obama, or how many Christians, or how many Mexicans, or Muslims, or Asians? I doubt it. Why such a focus on Jews? probably because they aren't Christians is the bottom line.

Another thing to keep in mind is there is no pyramid structure in the Jewish community as there is in the Christian community. The Orthodox have their own respected rabbis. The other groups have their own organizations. There is no place where Jews get together to discuss what religious stands all of them must take. Again numbers are not large in any single religious group. Jews represent about 2.7% of the population and that number is fractured by divisions. It doesn't mean there is total opposition between groups, but that total cooperation is not there. It's an ultimate example of free will at work. So it hardly matters what one rabbi in one congregation in the US does.

Dorothy
 
LEN
Thank you for your input and clarification of Jewish beliefs. Please contribute in the future as we do need help here to keep information on Judaism and Jews correct.

Dorothy
 
ANONYMOUSES
Thank you for your gracious comments and support. I too wish the old Maryanne would come back. She made great contributions to our understanding of what is happening.

I just looked at the top word. The fact is that with your strong words you are definitely Non-Mouses. Couldn't resist the play on the word.

Dorothy
 
Thank you Len and Dorothy for setting the record straight and helping those of us who know little to anything about Judaism and the Jewish community.
 
Dear Dorothy,
I know virtually nothing about Judaism outside of the Old and New Testaments. I have a Jewish calendar and I've been studying the feasts a little bit lately (specifically Purim since I'm teaching the book of Esther right now). I would LOVE to have a recommended Orthodox website or books that will help me to learn more about the Firstborn of Jehovah. If this request is offensive in any way, it isn't meant to be. I fear going to sites that are completely unknown to me because I have no way to measure their accuracy, so a recommendation is helpful. If there is nothing recommendable, then I will do my best to be respectful and learn what I can as I go.

Sincerely,
-SV
 
Dorothy,

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. FYI the actual number can never be known precisely, but according to several polls, the Jewish vote for Obama was just a hare under 80% nation wide. Seems to me it matters very much what they teach (or don't teach) in those left leaning Jewish fellowships, at least as much as what they teach in those left leaning Evangelical or Catholic bodies. As you know better than most, New Age does not differentiate but infiltrates wherever it finds an open door.

You live in the most openly corrupt state in the Union, while I live in one of the most openly New Age. Michelle Obama may be proud of her country for the first time, but I am increasingly ashamed. And alarmed.

On the radio this evening I heard an ESPN sports commentator who claimed to be a Chicago native say that if an Illinois governor wasn't arrested every ten years or so, (five in the past five decades) the people of the state would feel cheated. It's normal Chicagoland style politics. The current Governor is on his way to prison to join the previous Governor. Maybe they can be cell mates. My oh my, how trash piles up.
 
Len,
I will answer you within the text, so hope that's okay.

I apprerciate Joyce's support of Israel. But then she wrote: "We need to have the Torah written on our hearts which is impossible without Yeshua."

**** I appreciate the honest open discussion. Thank you.

As a Jew I know this to be utter nonsense. In his Chapter 31 Jeremiah mentioned that, in the future, Jews will have Torah written in there hearts. This is a prophecy that means they will have internalized it so will no longer need to have it taught them. But Jeremiah would turn in his grave if he saw Joyce's interpretation of his totally Jewish work.

**** In the book of Hebrews, the writer who is known to be a Greek-speaking diaspora Jew quotes the passage in Jeremiah. The context of this quote, Hebrews 8 is the in the newer covenant. The writer most likely preparing Jews for the destruction of the Temple and the fact that the sacrificial system will end and explaining how this law is going to be put on their hearts. The prophet Jeremiah is actually speaking to both houses of Israel. It is not Scripturally accurate to call the Northern Kingdom or Ephraim Jews, they are Israelites, but not Jews. I know this is common usuage of the word Jews today, but it obscures the fact that they never were Jews, they were Israelites and have not yet come back and joined their brothers.

Here's the quote from Hebrews, speaking of the newer covenant:

Heb. 8:7-12... for if that first were faultless, a place would not have been sought for a second. For finding fault, He saith to them, ‘Lo, days come, saith the Lord, and I will complete with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, a new covenant, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day of My taking [them] by their hand, to bring them out of the land of Egypt — because they did not remain in My covenant, and I did not regard them, saith the Lord, — because this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, after those days, saith the Lord, giving My laws into their mind, and upon their hearts I will write them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me for a people; and they shall not teach each his neighbour, and each his brother, saying, Know thou the Lord, because they shall all know Me from the small one of them unto the great one of them,
because I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawlessnesses I will remember no more;’ —

The context of this newer covenant is the priesthood, of Yeshua HaMashiach, who shed His blood and cleansed the mercy seat in heaven, as opposed to the Temple or Tabernacle, and as opposed to the blood of bulls and goats. He, as the ultimate High Priest on the order of Melchizedek, ho had no genealogy, was both priest and king.. Yeshua was from the tribe of Judah. What was newer and improved was the fact that this sacrifice cleansed sin once and for all as opposed to the earthly sacrifice at Yom Kippur which had to be repeated every year.

Jeremiah Ch. 31 is about Jews and for Jews only. It has nothing to do with gentiles or with the Christian Bible notwithstanding its reference to a new covenant

*****I would make a correction here, and say it's about Israel.. Again, I insist on this terminology because the Tanakh does. The Northern Kingdom is NEVER referred to as Jews. This terminology obscures the fact that the Northern tribes are mixed in the nations and for all intensive purposes resemble gentiles. The prophet Hosea is very clear on this issue and I know there are Orthodox Jews who understand this too. For the purpose of our discussion, I would rather stick to Biblical terminology.

You have sort of made my point for some of the Christian readers on this blog. The New Covenant ( which can be translated "newer" covenant too) is with Israel..God has never stopped dealing with Israel. I think you can agree with this. The question is how He will put Torah on the hearts of Israel. We know that before Torah was written on stone. I do believe Gentiles can join into this covenant with Israel, but they must become part of Israel, like Ruth. i.e. your God will be my God, your people, my people. ( or Rahab, and others who attached themselves to the qahal)

YOUR 2nd post:
As a new kid on the block I quickly see that I will have some dialogue with Joyce. I am an Orthodox Jew who respects Christianity as well as Christian support of Israel. But I must respectfully correct mistatements about Judaism. A little learning is a dangerous thing.

*****Happy to have this discussion with you, although I think we will have some important points of disagreement. I do love Israel and the Jewish people. I am a Jew, whose family were killed in the Shoah, and I do not have an ounce of anti-semitic blood in me, which has at times been suggested on this blog. I think that is more a question of communication and language, which can create misunderstanding..Blogging is not an ideal medium of communication but I'll do my best. I do not consider my self a Christian, but a Jew who already found her Messiah, and is waiting for HIm to return. I am Torah observant. I do not necessarily hold to all the traditions of Judaism, but I do follow Torah to the extent that it is possible for me. i.e. I'm not a Levitical priest ( although I come from Levy) I don't live in the Land, for the moment, and I am a woman...All that applies to me I try to honor. My family and I follow the Hebrew calendar, observe the mo'ed, eat biblically kosher, etc. We study Torah, the Prophets, the Writings, and the Apostolic Scriptures. If someone ever told my kids I was anti-semitic or anti-Jewish they would roll over cracking up. In fact I shared that remark and my daughter did crack up...

The word "Judaism" derives from Judah, a son of Jacob, who was given the name Israel by God's angel. Judah was the surviving kingdom after the northern kingdom of Israel was conquered by Assyria and ten tribes dispersed. Judah was Abraham's great grandson. While Judaism is not 4000 years old it is over 3000.
****I agree that Judaism is derived from Judah and is a post-exilic expression. The Assyrian exile of the Northern Kingdoms was roughly in 722 BC, and the Southern Kingdom of Judah was 538 BC if I'm not mistaken.

It would be difficult to say that Judaism in its modern day form developed 3000 years ago. I would say that the Babylonian exile of the Southern Kingdom was where it began to develop, when the Temple was destroyed and the Southern Kingdom was in exile for 70 years in Babylon. When we get to the period of the Second Temple there are different branches of Judaism who adhere to somewhat different beliefs and practices. For example the Sadducees of 2nd Temple did not believe in the resurrection of the dead. There were the different schools of Pharisees, none of which existed prior to 2nd Temple period, so maybe we are looking at 2500 years of Judaism. After the destruction of the Second Temple, the synagogue system developed even more due to the dispersion of the Jews from Jerusalem and the inability to perform the sacrifices mandated by Torah.




Of course the Torah was given to neither of these but to Moses' generation hundreds of years later. But Abraham, who led the world to monotheism, is considered the first Jew by genealogical considerations and by God's promises to him.
****The Bible refers to Abraham as Hebrew, which means to "cross over". He left the area of Babylon and followed the true and living God..It would be hard to call Him a Jew, because Judah was his great-grandson, but I understand that people do this.. That doesn't make it accurate, but I do understand.. Moses was from the tribe of Levi, and Levi did attach itself to Judah, but at that time the expression Jew was not used, and Moses was not really attached to any one tribe. He was the leader of all Israel.



Joyce wrote that "Yeshua corrected much of what was being done in the Judaism of His day" but rabbis are always doing this, including the Pharisees of Jesus' era. Notwithstanding Christian Bible statements to the contrary a good case can be made that Jesus was a Pharisee himself because it is the Pharises who had liberal views and from whom today's Jews are descended. Christians give Jesus credit for liberalizing Torah whereas somme of his ideas were Pharisee ones.

***Yes, I didn't want to get into a lengthy explanation on the blog here, but I agree with you that Yeshua's teachings resembled greatly those of HIllel's in many instances. I would say that He certainly taught on the resurrection, in fact He was the resurrection.. I didn't want to explain that there was a school of Shimei and Hillel and that all Pharisees did not interpret Torah the same way. Yeshua was also hard on the Pharisees because many times they would add to Torah, and not correctly interpret Torah. There were a group of leaders who would try to "nail Him" by quoting Torah. For example in the case of the adulterer. His wisdom was far superior to those who were just looking for an excuse to discredit Him.

I would say that Yeshua, gave correct interpretation to Torah, because He was the Word, that became flesh and dwelt among us. I would also say that Yeshua lived Torah perfectly and NEVER abolished it, as Christianity sometimes says. Yeshua lived Torah perfectly and laid down His life for His people. He said that He came for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel...i.e. He died for Israel and was called "King of the Jews". The Yeshua I follow is Jew 100%. I do not believe He invented a "new religion" in fact I don't care much for "religion" per say, but do want to walk in face to face relationship with God.

Joyce's statement that "Yeshua was the Torah who came in the flesh," is strange to say the least. If that were so his followers would not have invented Christianity as a rival religion, with its many contradictions of the Torah. While he may not have abolished the Torah his followers did when they succeeded it with their "New Testament;" notwithstanding the Torah's command not to add or subtract from itself.
*****I do not believe His followers, the disciples or talmadin abolished Torah. I believe future generations did. There is a lot of historical reason for this. As followers came in from the nations, they were supposed to come to the synagogues and learn Torah on Shabbat. Yacov, Yeshua's brother says this in Acts 15:He gave some basic outlines for initial fellowship, but knew they would come to the synagogue and hear Torah and grow:

Acts 15:19-21 “Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, but that we write to them that they abstain from 1athings contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. “For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

****Torah, Prophets and Writings were the ONLY Scriptures available at that time. The Gospels and Epistles are written later..

Joyce's view that "Torah does not equal Judaism" is partly true because Torah is explained by the Talmud and many other works. But that does not seem to be what Joyce meeans. Her view is that "Torah without the revelation of Yeshua as the Living Torah, has its limitations." With all due respect this is nonsense.

*****Well actually these are two separate thoughts. One is that Torah doesn't equal Judasim. The other is that I, unlike you and Dorothy, believe that Yeshua is Messiah. I believe that the Torah talks about Him extensively. I can quote you hundreds of verses and stories that point to Him, but there isn't space here. I believe He is both Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. I also know many Jews who are coming to this realization in our day. Some of them are rabbis who have studied Torah for many years. Some live in the Old City of Jerusalem and have not yet publicized this. One famous kabbalist who died about 2-3 years ago left a letter to this effect with details from the Scriptures as to why he believed that. The letter was posted on a Kabbalist website in Hebrew for some time. I personally met a rabbi in Jerusalem who told me he believed the prophecy that Yeshua will come back and put His feet on Mt. Of Olives in accordance with this verse:

Zech. 14:4 In that day His feet will astand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be bsplit in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

and that HE is one and the same who is spoken of in this verse:

Zech. 12:10 ¶ “I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, 1the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one cmourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.



Judaism has done quite well in its diaspora survival for 2000 years while many of its persecuters have vanished. We continue to worship the Father and study and observe Torah faithfully. Thank God we have had the merit to see some of the Torah's prophecies come to fruition in our generation.
******I do believe that Judaism has preserved the Torah. I believe, God has miraculously preserved my people, the Hebrew language. I believe the forming of the State of Israel is a fulfillment of the prophecy of Ezekiel 37, "this valley of dry bones". Can't help seeing the reference to the dry bones and thinking of those horrible images of the Shoah. I believe in fulfillment of the rest of Ezekiel 37, God will put the "body" we call the WHOLE house of Israel, the Jews and the Northern Tribes back together to form one people, and He will put His Spirit in them and they will be ruled by a Davidic King, who I believe is Yeshua. In accordance with the land distributions of Ezekiel I believe the individual tribes will receive their inheritances with borders intact and aliens who attach themselves may dwell among them, but being attached is a key requirement.

Sorry this is so long and I could add lots more Len, but it is really a pleasure discussing with you. I know we don't see eye to eye and that's okay, but I like to clear up what I see as some "errors" of history on both sides. I don't believe that Jews can accept a "torahless" Messiah and Christians have read some of the verses in the Apostles writings and interpreted them as a "new religion".

I believe Yeshua is the Messiah of Israel, the Word who became flesh, and the creator of all who was there at the foundations of the world...I believe that God has the power and the ability to manifest as He choses. I believe that Yeshua and the Father are echad. As Paul said so eloquently:

Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

and I believe He is our kinsman redeemer who gives us access to the throne of God..

Rev. 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, athe faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood —

****I believe in these last days, God is drawing many Jews to Yeshua. I get to meet them all the time, and so it is something that He is doing. I know I can't persuade you or Dorothy or anyone else for that matter of that, but I did want to present a view that perhaps you've not heard before.

My people have been persecuted for centuries on the basis of Torah, which I think is tragic. I don't believe the Jews "killed Jesus". I believe He willingly gave His life so that through Him, the world may be redeemed, and Gan Eden restored, that we might dwell with our creator in the "place of delight".

There's so much more I could share. I've thought about this and studied for many years, but space and time don't permit.

Blessings and shalom to you Len. Truly a pleasure to have this discussion, whether we find agreement or not..

Joyce
 
SV
I know you were not asking me but I will send you a link, that will help with the knowledge base of Orthodox Judaism.
http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/char/A
It is one I go to daily
YS
 
SV
I know you were not asking me but I will send you a link, that will help with the knowledge base of Orthodox Judaism.
http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/char/A
It is one I go to daily
YS
 
I just want to say for Dorothy's benefit and that of others on this blog, it was refreshing to have a discussion free of personal insults about legitimate difference of opinion. I can see where Dorothy might feel outnumbered on the blog by Christians, but as you will note from my views I am probably another minority on the blog, A Jew who believes in Yeshua and Torah. I think it is healthy to be able to discuss these things without feeling like someone is insulting us.

There are many elements with the Christian practice that I would differ with, but that doesn't mean I hate Christians at all and obviously I agree about who Yeshua is. 2000 years is a long time, and things can be interpreted differently over time. There are some who are Messianic believers who don't believe Torah is for everyone. I do, so even among those called "Messianic" there are differences. I believe the nations will learn Torah in the Millennial Kingdom, so why not start learning now? It wasn't abolished. Matthew 5:17-19.

I learn a lot from Jews about the roots of my faith, so I am grateful for that aspect of Judaism, even though I would disagree about Messiah...so we can all learn from one another on this blog, and a little respect goes a long way. Judaism has preserved Torah, even if it has added other books like Talmud and Mishnah etc.

I will just apologize if anyone was offended by any of my remarks here. That is never my intention. My heart is genuinely to walk in the Truth of Scriptures...and that does mean loving my neighbor.. Having said that, I am happy to engage in discussion that are not always easy or might not agree with everyone, but I think we can all learn from these about one another and about God..

I wish some of the ecumenic organizations instead of pretending the differences don't exist would be a little more intellectually honest, but that's probably not their goal then, is it?

Joyce
 
SV,
I know you are not asking me either, but I will just say that Chabad is the group who were killed in Mumbai. They are very "evangelical" for lack of a better word i.e. they spread Judaism...however, they do believe in Kabbalah, which is just a point to pay attention to. Kabbalah is Jewish Mysticism. As we on this blog are concerned about Christian Mysticism I do think it's also legitimate to be concerned about Jewish Mysticism, so that's just a heads up. Not saying you can't learn from Chabad. Some of their members believe that their "rebbe" was the Messiah, so that also may be in serious conflict with your faith.

Joyce
 
YS,
That's not meant to start a controversy with you so please don't take it that way.
Joyce
 
OLDMANOFTHE SKI
You are right. In checking it appears that 78% of the votes went for Obama. I guess it only goes to show Jews as a group vote like women 56%, Latinos 76%, young people 18-29 68%, and members of the African-Americans 95%, unmarried women 70%, the self-diagnosed victim minority groups that Democrats appeal to. The "We'll show 'em" voters."

There is not much done in the way of teaching leftist ideas in the Jewish community. Like elsewhere, it's more emotional manipulation than factual information.

I just read over at Atlas Shrugs that Fitzgerald and his team of 160 lawyers have put over 400 Chicago political figures in jail since he was appointed by Bush. We need to watch what happens in the coming months.

Dorothy
 
JOYCE
It's very clear you consider yourself a better Jew than any person who follows Judaism. At least that's been your message for many, many months. You by your own words don't follow those "propagandizing rabbis."

Using the CTRL F feature one can find anything you've written, although I warn other Jews here that heartburn is not pleasant. Trust me, your divide and conquer tactic isn't going to work.

All I can say is thank you for caring. God loves you.

Dorothy

Dorothy
 
CONGRATULATIONS JOYCE
You broke OV's record of a 60 inch long comment by four inches. It's what I find most interesting about your posts.

Dorothy
 
SV - INFORMATION ON JUDAISM
You might find this website contains answers to some of the questions you have.

http://www.jewfaq.org/index.htm
Welcome to Judaism 101!

RabbiJudaism 101 is an online encyclopedia of Judaism, covering Jewish beliefs, people, places, things, language, scripture, holidays, practices and customs. My goal is to make freely available a wide variety of basic, general information about Judaism, written from a traditional perspective in plain English. This web site has grown continually for more than 10 years and continues to be updated periodically.

I hope this helps.

Dorothy
 
Dorothy,
I don't consider myself a better anything, and I'm not trying to divide anyone..Any righteousness that I have at all, would be my new creation identity in Yeshua. Paul explains how our righteousness is in Yeshua:

Gal. 2:20 “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

He also explains why it was necessary for Yeshua to die for us. Remember, Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees, so he knew Torah well. Torah could not justify us, even though Torah is good:

Rom. 7:16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with athe Law, confessing that the Law is good. ( Paul was not opposed to Torah either, he just knew it couldn't justify us)

Rom. 8:3 For awhat the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom. 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who bdo not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

That is the sense in which Torah is put on our hearts, through the Spirit...

That is the only source of my righteousness...I'm not trying to divide anyone or anything, merely proclaim the truth of Scripture which I believe with all my heart will protect us from the deception which is coming in these Last Days.

2Pet. 2:1 But false prophets also rose among the people, just as there will also be bfalse teachers camong you, who will dsecretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

Peter talking about Paul says this:

2Pet. 3:15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
2Pet. 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.


Even Peter said, Paul was hard to understand.. Paul was not against Torah, and didn't start a new religion when he says I am a Pharisee of Pharisees from the tribe of Benjamin, he says it in the present tense. Paul also understood the Jews mission to be a light to the nations, which is why he spread the news about Yeshua.

I also believe there is an unnecessary schism between Christians and Jews due to many misunderstandings over what Paul was actually saying. So contrary to what you said about me dividing, I prefer to be a minister of reconciliation and bridge some of these misunderstandings between Jews and Christian believers in Yeshua. That's actually where my heart is. It doesn't work very well if someone is hostile, but I have had countless fruitful conversations with Jewish friends explaining some of the things I've explained on this blog which were actually appreciated.. even if they don't 100% agree with me.


My opinions can win me friends and enemies on both sides. Some Jews appreciate knowing that what is called the New Testament is not an anti-Jew, anti-Torah piece of propaganda, and some Christians appreciate learning about the Hebrew roots of their faith, so it's all a question of perspective.. Dorothy.

The other piece of that is, that when Yeshua restores all things, I don't believe we will be divided as Jews and Gentiles, but rather we will be one called out assembly and Israel will receive its full inheritance and the nations will dwell with Israel. The difference between you and I is, you are waiting for Messiah, and I am waiting for Him to come back...I do believe our brothers, the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are still out there in the nations and some of them might even be in the churches..

Since they assimilated unlike Judah, as the gospel spread undoubtedly some of them turned to Yeshua, and are still waiting for their brother Judah to bring Torah to the nations..

Zech. 8:23 Thus said the LORD of Hosts: In those days, ten men from nations of every tongue will take hold — they will take hold of every Jew by a corner of his cloak and say, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” ( the corner of the cloak represents the tzizits, or which refer to the keeping of the Commandments)

A Jew's role is to teach Torah to the nations...and one day that will happen.

Blessings,
Joyce
 
joyce I dont understand why persons here feel you are attacking them. you are doing a great job sharing the truth of Jesus and I appreciate that. I am a first time responder and felt I needed to jump in and support you. I am a Christian, follower of Jesus and His teachings in the bible. blessings connie
 
Dear SV,

I'm glad to help.

Since you are teaching Esther you may have noticed that God appears nowhere in the book (except in Roman Catholic Bibles). Esther, and Song of Songs, are the only two such. In Esther we take this to mean that, even when God's presence isn't apparent, He still runs the world.

As regards books my favorite introductory one, especially for someone versed in religion, is "Understanding Judaism," by Rabbi Benjamin Blech. Here is a link to the Amazon description. A review of it by me can also be found here:

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Judaism-Basics-Deed-Creed/dp/0876682913/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228926015&sr=1-2

Peace and blessing,
Len
 
Hi Connie,
Thank you and bless you. It's nice to have a friendly comment from time to time. Welcome to the blog. Look forward to hearing more from you.

Joyce
 
Dear Sv,

I forgot to mention websites on Judaism. And BTW, Amazon doesn't advertise it but the Blech book is also available in paperback.

First the best site for an encyclopedic presentation of Judaism with search capability:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/index.htm

Here are a couple full of material on the religion, practice, holidays, and related cultural, political and even scientific topics. All these sites reflect an orthodox approach.

http://www.aish.com/

http://www.torah.org/
 
Dear Dorothy, Len, and YS,
Thank you for your information. I appreciate that you've generously shared your time and resources that will help me to better understand Judaism.

Dear Joyce,
Thank you so much for the warning. I'll do my best to be cautious.

My email address is shaunvb@gmail.com if there are other email resources or if any of you would like to send me further info.

Blessings to all,
-SV
 
JOYCE
You wrote:

Joyce said...

Dorothy,
I'm more Jewish than you are. Look:

Matt. 2:2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.” ....

In our day, many Jews are recognizing their Jewish Messiah..and they are staying Jews. They don't convert to another "religion".. They are descendants of the House of Judah, Benjamin or Levi and they just believe in Yeshua.

The problem with you is that you have bought into the propaganda of the rabbis .."

So much for the false humbleness.

Dorothy
 
Dorothy,

I don't see any lack of humility there. You have continually called me a Christian when you know I am a Jew, and I was simply showing you that that's not true I am more of a Jew than you. I follow the King of the Jews..Yeshua..

You ought to go back and look at your own posts...that might help to put mine in context.

Joyce
 
SV,
I will see what I can come up with for you.

Blessings
Joyce
 
Dear Joyce,

Wow; seven pages! I am most flattered that you took the time to read and thoughtfully respond; especially since you are evidently well versed in Bible and history; albeit from the Christian viewpoint. Because of its length I may split this reply into more than one message.

You responded to my criticism of your assertion that "We need to have the Torah written on our hearts which is impossible without Yeshua." I wrote that “In his Chapter 31 Jeremiah mentioned that, in the future, Jews will have Torah written in their hearts. This is a prophecy that means they will have internalized it so will no longer need to have it taught them,” and that it had nothing to do with Jesus or gentiles.

You responded by citing the Hebrews 8 quoting of the passage in Jeremiah and said that the Hebrews “writer [was] most likely preparing Jews for the destruction of the Temple and the fact that the sacrificial system will end and explaining how this law is going to be put on their hearts.” Perhaps that was on the mind of the Hebrews writer but not on Jeremiah’s hundreds of years earlier. Jeremiah was writing about the defeat of Judah (and Israel earlier) as well as prophesying the messianic era – the FIRST one. Hebrews errs in asserting that the “first covenant” was faulty or there would have been no need for a “second one to replace it,” and that the original one will disappear. (8:7, 13) It is not the covenant but the people who were at fault. The correct way to interpret Jeremiah is that the new covenant will be the same as the original eternal one except for its means of assimilation by the Jews

You are technically correct in saying that the term “Jew” strictly does not apply to the northern kingdom. But neither should it apply to the tribe of Benjamin (from the southern kingdom) or to the Kohaynes (priests) and Levites (distributed throughout both kingdoms) none of whom were of Judah’s tribe. As you note, by common usage, it now applies to all of Jacob’s descendents; all twelve tribes.

You wrote, “The context of this newer covenant is the priesthood, of Yeshua HaMashiach, who shed His blood and cleansed the mercy seat in heaven, as opposed to the Temple or Tabernacle, and as opposed to the blood of bulls and goats.” This is a Christian construct and has zero to do with Jeremiah’s original meaning. You are of course as entitled to your belief as I am to explain the Jewish biblical view. I am not here to belittle Christianity but to correct mistaken views of Judaism and the Jewish Scriptures.
You added that “[Jesus], as the ultimate High Priest on the order of Melchizedek, ho had no genealogy, was both priest and king. Yeshua was from the tribe of Judah. What was newer and improved was the fact that this sacrifice cleansed sin once and for all as opposed to the earthly sacrifice at Yom Kippur which had to be repeated every year.”

Who were the genealogies of Matthew and Mark for? How could Jesus be a priest if he was not from the tribe of Levi? And doesn’t Hebrews say that , “ if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins (10:26)?” As far as Yom Kippur is concerned God, in his wisdom, understood the human propensity to sin and mandated an annual opportunity for repentance and atonement. I’m entirely good with God’s view.

Jeremiah Ch. 31 is about Jews and for Jews only. It has nothing to do with gentiles or with the Christian Bible notwithstanding its reference to a new covenant

You wrote “that the Northern tribes are mixed in the nations and for all intensive purposes resemble gentiles. The prophet Hosea is very clear on this issue and I know there are Orthodox Jews who understand this too.” Of course! But Hosea also confirms other prophets in his view that the twelve tribes will reunite someday: “2 And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint for themselves one head, and they shall go up from the land, for great is the day of Jezreel. (Hos. 2:2)” So don’t be so pessimistic

You wrote that “The New Covenant is with Israel.” This is true as Jeremiah and Jews view it but not as some Christians view it. It excludes what is more commonly called the New Testament.

You asked, “ how [God] will put Torah on the hearts of Israel.” If I knew this I would be God. As the Torah says: “The hidden things belong to the Lord, our God, but the revealed things apply to us and to our children forever: that we must fulfill all the words of this Torah. (Deut. 29:28)”

Gentiles can indeed join into this covenant with Israel. While we do not proselytize, the Covenant is open to all willing to take on the yoke of the commandments thereby subjecting themselves to pervasive antisemitism and the blandishments of missionaries. Isaiah calls Israel “My servants,” in most cases. A notable exception is in Chap. 56, where he refers to *converts* in this way:

“‘... As for foreigners who attach themselves to the Lord, to minister to Him and to love the Name of the Lord, to be His servants -- all who keep the sabbath and do not profane it, and who hold fast to My covenant -- I will bring them to My sacred mount and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices shall be welcome on my alter; for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.’ Thus declares the Lord, God, Who gathers the dispersed of Israel: ‘I will gather still more to those already gathered.’” (Is. 56:6-8)

Christians, Muslims and others should know that, “the Lord is close to *all* who call Him, to all who call Him sincerely. He fulfills the wishes of those who fear Him; He hears their cry and delivers them. the Lord watches over *all* who love him, but all the wicked He will destroy. My mouth shall utter the praise of the Lord, and all creatures shall bless His holy Name forever and ever.” (Ps. 145:18-21)

As Rabbi Yitz Greenberg has written, “The [Jewish] covenant is potentially a model for an absolute commitment that does not deny the validity of other commitments and religions. It is a model of tremendous importance in this age when the growth of communication and power has created a unitary world in which one has to reconcile absolutes through pluralism or risk all-out collision and destruction.” (The Jewish Way, Pg. 71, Summit Books Div., Simon and Schuster, 1988)

And from Rabbi David Hartman: "I do not argue against the viability of secular humanism. Nor do I claim that a system of ethics must be founded on the authority of divine revelation. Nor is the viability of Judaism established through a critique of other faith postures. The discussion of Judaism is always internal to the Jewish experience and in no way pretends to show how Judaism or the Jewish people are unique or superior to other faith communities.

"I argue strongly for the significance of Jewish particularity, not for its uniqueness. The covenantal election of Israel at Sinai ... should not be understood as implying a metaphysical claim regarding the ontological uniqueness of the Jewish people. I do not subscribe to the view that a serious commitment to the God of Israel and Torah requires one to believe that the Jewish people mediate the only authentic way for the worship of God... I only explicate a way in which the tradition can encourage a spiritual direction through its emphasis on the covenantal relationships of Israel with God." ("A Living Covenant -- The Innovative Spirit of Traditional Judaism," Pgs. 3-4, The Free Press, a division of Macmillan, 1985)

We are a people with a covenant, though this people includes folks of all races, and those who convert in are considered as if they were present at Sinai. As a people, we consider history and community as well as theology and philosophy. Obviously, someone converting in needs to accept the theology and philosophy.

Peace and blessing,
Len
 
Len,

Welcome to the Cumbey blog. As a reader here I am delighted to have the perspective of an Orthodox Jew interested in the New Age movement.

Although you may feel at times that you are "up against" a lot at this blog, your perspective will be very much welcomed by me and I'm sure other "Anonymice" who don't often comment but instead come here to learn.

You might want to take a look at the December 2, 2008 thread (a few threads down) to see Joyce "in action" with her relentless proselytizing of Dorothy. I have seen Dorothy pushed "to the limit" time and again by this woman.

Please don't measure all the Christians at this blog by those here who vocally support Joyce.

I am a Christian and I find many of her posts anti-semitic and an embarrassment and a scandal to my faith.
 
To CONNIE 10:04,

People here attack Joyce and some of the evangelicals here because this blog is controlled by people who do not like Messianic Jews and evangelical Christians. If you happen to be a devout Catholic or the kind of Jew who propounds that anti-Zionism is the same thing as anti-Semitism, then stay here. You'll probably fit right in.

Otherwise, you'll discover that there is no freedom of speech here. Dorothy runs the blog and acts as the Gulag here against anyone who disagrees with her way of thinking.

Our media has successfully treated evangelical Christians, conspiracy theorists and anti-Semites in much the same manner. These words have been so thoroughly demonized that their definitions denote criminal behavior. In direct opposition to free speech, uttering certain opinions is now a criminal offense in several nations.

That is also the case on this blog.

If you go against the tide here, your ability to think cognitively will be questioned. Note the fact that Paul has been accused of having the memory of a goldfish and that Maryanne is in need of therapy. These techniques are intended to put doubt in the reader’s mind that either Paul or Maryanne is capable of thinking rationally and therefore worthy to contribute to the discussion here. Joyce is painted as being overly aggressive, with a “divide and conquer” mentality, to discourage anyone from taking Joyce’s thoughtful perceptions on the bible seriously.

And don't even think of bringing up the Russian Revolution and the fact that it was a Christian Holocaust carried out by a predominantly atheistic and/or kabalistic Jewish cadre that made Hitler’s evil catharsis look like chicken soup with rice. Estimates are that about 60 million Russian Christians were annihilated in this tragedy, but the Dorothy Margrafs of the world, who disdain all things associated with salvation through Jesus Christ and the NT, (read her comment to Maryanne above if you don't believe me), will make sure that the truth about the part that certain Jews played in this massive Holocaust remains purposely concealed.

Certain Jews throughout time have hated being associated with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the fulfillment of Torah who is Yeshua /Jesus because they worship the Great Deceiver instead. They’ve bought into his lies and have perpetrated the deception among Christians that because they are considered God’s chosen people, they are above reproach. They use Hitler and threats against anti-Semitism to propagate dis-information and prevent the real truth from getting out.

Churchill, Nixon and Solzhenitsyn all tried to get the information out about the Russian Revolution’s Christian massacre but the Zionists (who are not true Jews in the biblical sense) that control the press concealed it.

Constance, (Dorothy's friend) has had many, many battles with evangelicals. She seems to have lumped them all together with one word- "enemy". I fear that Dorothy's influence on Constance over all these years, has had a very negative affect on Constance's ability to be fair in her assessments of people that fall into the anti-Dorothy category.

I happen to agree with how News with Views’ Lynn Stuter handled Dorothy Margraf’s “anti-Semitism” accusations against News with Views in her article “Guilt by Association”. Read it carefully, Connie, since you are new to this blog.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter120.htm

or

http://tinyurl.com/6djdry


To conclude, just keep in mind that if you come here seeking the truth, the agenda here is dictated by the agent provocateur and friends.

Don't say I didn't warn you...
 
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