Sunday, July 08, 2007

How far have American Civil Rights Degenerated

I wonder if the scenes before Noah boarding the ark or Sodom & Gomorrah being destroyed could have been much worse than this one. I would appreciate comments!


*Faith Under Fire* * 7 Christians arrested, Cops call holding Bibles while lying prostrate 'disturbing peace'*
Posted: July 7, 2007
Christians have been arrested recently at "gay" festivals for nothing more than having a protest sign that is "wider than their torso," but now police have gone even further, targeting Bible-carrying ministers for praying on public property and for standing on a public sidewalk near a "gay" festival.
One of the new cases comes from Elmira, N.Y., where police arrested seven Christians who went into a public park where a "gay" fest was beginning and started to pray, faces down, while holding their Bibles.
They were cited for "disturbing the peace," and Assistant Police Chief Mike Robertson said that the seven are accused of a "combination" of allegations under that statute, which includes the "intent" to cause a public inconvenience, any "disturbance" of a meeting of persons, obstructing vehicular or pedestrian traffic, or taking part in "any act that serves no legitimate purpose."
Pastor Mark Holick was arrested for being on sidewalk at Wichita "gay" fest
The second such case arose in Wichita, Kan., where police arrested Spirit One Christian Center Pastor Mark Holick, who had received permission earlier from officers to be on the public sidewalk adjacent to the park where the festival was occurring but then was arrested doing exactly that.
Julian Raven, a street preacher, said that his group of seven assembled to pray for three hours the night before Elmira's recent "pride" festival in promotion of the homosexual lifestyle.
"We have a legal right to be at an event held in a public square. We're not a hate group," he said. "We're Christians and we're going to be there to pray."
He said he contacted police, who told him he had no free speech rights in the public park.
"The female officer, she said, 'You're not going to cross the street. You're not going to enter the park and you're not going to share your religion with anybody in this park,'" he said.
"When she said that, for the first time in my life as a Christian, I felt now my freedom of speech is threatened or challenged," he said. "I was being told I could not share my religion with anybody in that park."
Raven said he told the officer "she was violating the Constitution that she had sworn to uphold, and she was very agitated and adamant, and couldn't look me straight in the eye."
Raven asked for the justification for such a threat and was not given a response.
He said his team of Christians then went into the park, holding Bibles over their heads to signify their subservience to God's Word, and lay on their faces to pray.
Within three minutes, police officers had put handcuffs on the seven, to the cheers of the homosexual crowd, he said.
He said a court date is pending for the seven July 23.
"I have the highest respect for the police officers. They have a very difficult job to do. But we were treated unfairly in a public setting. This was a hasty show of force. It was not called for," he said.
He said if the situation is left unchallenged, the city of Elmira will be in the position of being able to control the content of people's messages in a lawful assembly – or even thoughts if they are nearby.
"We didn't say boo to a goose, still we were arrested," he said.
The local newspaper reported the arrests came just "moments" after Elmira Mayor John Tonello delivered a speech "celebrating diversity."
And the actions prompted some immediate criticism from newspaper readers.
"I was appalled and disgusted by the gay stories strewn through the … paper. … What was even more disturbing was the way the city acted. Since when is it illegal to sit on the ground in a public park and recite Bible verses? Are they not protected by the same Constitution that allows gay people to have their gay pride event. These Bible thumpers had their constitutional right to free speech and assembly trampled on by the city. They should not have been arrested," said Kevin Raznoff.
Robertson said that the Christians "certainly" have a right to assemble, but not on public property when there's an "organized" event there. Asked repeatedly about how the "disturbance" statute relates to First Amendment guarantees of freedom of speech, he did not answer.
"Obviously, they caused a disruption to an event that was taking place," he said.
But Raven confirmed that the seven Christians did not approach a single person, did not speak to anyone and did not even make any audible statements until after they were arrested.
Pastor Holick's case in Wichita was even more drastic. He had gone, with a team from his church, to pass out flyers and pray at a recent "pride" festival held there.
He had checked with the police department and was told, "The sidewalk is your friend."
"Upon arriving we began to set up," he said. "Immediately, I was approached by WPD and told that we could not go into the park (a public park mind you where everyone else – except the Christians – was allowed in) and that we could not be on the sidewalk on that side of the street but that we could go to the other side of the street.
"In other words, one side of the street is open to Christians but the public park and the public sidewalk next to the park is not," he said.
But then Holick was arrested within about four minutes of his arrival.
"It is obvious that the WPD did not keep their word and that they wanted to arrest as quickly as possible. The First Amendment … was cast aside like so much garbage," he said.
"The sin is 'coming out' further and further and the church is now being pushed further and further back inside the four walls of the church building; we are the ones that are seen as 'the trouble makers.' The police arrest the Christians and allow all manner of perversion to flaunt itself in the streets of Wichita. And we the church … well … I'm not sure we care," he said.
Police alleged that they asked Holick five times to "leave" the festival, even though he never purchased the required admission fee or went in.
Holick already had been targeted by the Internal Revenue Service for the moral statements he posted on the church's sign.
The notice he got from the IRS warned him about putting his Christian beliefs on the sign, and he responded that he would continue to preach the Word of God.
Just a week earlier, it was reported that police in St. Petersburg, Fla., arrested five Christians for carrying signs "wider than their torsos" outside an officially designated protest area at that city's homosexual festival.
Pastor Billy Ball, Assistant Pastor Doug Pitts, Frankie Primavera and Josh Pettigrew, all of Faith Baptist Church in Primrose, Ga., were arrested after leaving a small area set aside by city officials for protest activities. Bill Holt, of Lighthouse Baptist Church in Jefferson, Ga., was also taken into custody.
According to Lighthouse Pastor Kevin Whitman, the five men were told by police their signs were not allowed outside the protest area because they were wider than their torsos. When the men refused to put them away, they were arrested for violating a controversial city ordinance that governs permitted events.
St. Petersburg officials, following disturbances at a previous homosexual pride festival, implemented rules governing outdoor events that set aside "free speech zones," where protesters are allowed.
The resulting ordinance came under fire by the American Civil Liberties Union and the Alliance Defense Fund for being too broad. It allows the city to create prior restraints of speech on an event-by-event basis, with virtually no predictable limits. It also criminalizes certain free speech behavior around public events and authorizes the police to enforce breaches of permits – the penalty for such breaches being arrest.
I am in perfect agreement with you Constance, things are going from bad to worse just like Jesus said it would happen, now that Herb is gone I greatly rely on your articles to keep me updated on whats happening with bible prophecy concerning the beast and the beast system, your doing a great job getting the warning out and being a watchman.
Constance, I’ve been noticing this everywhere. There isn’t any doubt that Christianity is being directly targeted and this has been increasing exponentially every year. Fundamentalists are being specifically attacked and not just by the ACLU, but by just about any other authority. What we’re seeing is absolutely amazing to me because twenty years ago I couldn’t have seen this possibly happening in our supposedly “enlightened” world. I had been steeped in the New Age philosophies at the time and couldn’t imagine that the same people who espoused love and peace and freedom would harbour anything so sinister. But we are now seeing the drivers for a world religion that might ask humanity for the ultimate sacrifice for Mother Earth - from Findhorn to Nuremberg perhaps?
The word fundamentalism is being regularly touted as a threat to the world, along with climate change. I’ve felt for a long time that terrorism is going to give power to those who will use it. The world is ripe for the antichrist. We’ve just seen Sarkozy & co try to fast track changes to the EU under the radar, and Bush has tried to do the same thing in the US. The immigration bill was defeated once. Did Bush take the hint? No, he tried again. The New World Order is coming whether people want it or not. Those who are working to achieve it have already tasted some success and, I suspect, are becoming intoxicated by it. More terrorist attacks in the West will only serve to expedite more power to Governments. The Islamist and climate terror will give control to both the NWO and the New World Religion. True Christianity is unacceptable for both the NWO & NWR.

From the article:
"When the men refused to put them away, they were arrested for violating a controversial city ordinance that governs permitted events."

Is this the best way for Christians to get their messaage across ?

What if the gay community did the same and held protests outside churches every sunday ?
We've had secular protests here in Melbourne Australia that involved, taunts and some physical clashes, yet no one was arrested. You will see abuse being hurled at people like Walid Shoebat and Brigitte Gabriel at Universities and other venues, yet the authorities allow it to happen and no one is arrested. Yet we are increasingly seeing peaceful Christians being singled out for, presumably, being politically incorrect. The formula seems to go like this: if you publicly disapprove of the homosexual lifestyle, then that is hate speech and you will be jailed. Homosexual rallies aren't the only places where Christians have been asked to leave. I'm seeing the public shutting down of everything Christian.

You asked:
"Is this the best way for Christians to get their message across?"

I've asked myself the same question at times and I seriously doubt we can do the topic justice in this forum. But there is no doubt in my mind that God wants Christians to witness to the world.

You asked:
"What if the gay community did the same and held protests outside churches every Sunday?"

I wonder what kind of behavior we'd see by the gay community outside the churches? Would it be peaceful? But I'm guessing that a lot of Christians would see it as an excellent opportunity to present the Gospel!

Dear Mac,

You are evidently noticing the same things in Australia that are so very obvious here in the USA. I have always thought the end times, when they came, would be somewhat akin to a "full court press" in basketball. I hail originally from the state of Indiana, USA, and basketball was there (and is still) known as "Hoosier Hysteria." Whether we are in en times, or this is another "wannabe event," such as when they were hoping to trot out Krishnamurti as "Maitreya" in 1929 and thereafter WWII and Hitler, the pressures are the same. What distinguishes this round from previous rounds, in my opinion, is the globalist nature of the events which Mac has so capably elucidated in his thoughtful post.
To Anonymous 4:32

In the USA, it is called THE FIRST AMENDMENT -- "Freedom of Speech," etc. As I have observed it, the "gay," cum homosexual elements have not been the least bit afraid to come into the congregations themselves and attempt theological and ideological takeovers, while also holding their outside events. Witness common events these days with the Episcopalians, the Methodists, the Presbyterians, and until Ratzinger/Benedict XVI frowned disapproval, the "Gay Pride Masses" of Catholics. And they were doing far more than carrying prayer books and/or Bibles!
I was asked (by Dawn) in the post comment section just below what any New Age interest might be in a body implant RFID system. I think the attached lengthy link (sorry, I tried to create a tiny url, guess I don't know the secret!) might give some terrible clues:
"I would appreciate comments!"

Here's a 2-worder: END TIMES

Here's a 3-worder: ARE WE READY?


keep up the good work


Thanks for referring your readers to the book 'A Time of Turning,' by Ray Yungen. I just finished reading it and recommend it to your other bloggers as a clear explanation of how the New World Religion is perverting biblical truth. I have seen the appearance of Christian Mysticism in the Evangelical circles in which I am involved. As the book points out, it's hard to get other Christians to take this seriously or to believe it's really happening. It's very sobering to see how far conservative Christians have gone in their support of New Age Mysticism. The One World Religion is much further along than I would have imagined.

Bloggers, if you haven't done so already, please read this book.

Constance, I don't often have much to add to the blog but want you to know how much I appreciate your work and carefully read everything you post or point to.

God bless you!

Hi Dave,

Tell Ray Yungen and his publisher to send me a review copy and I'll thereafter do an internet radio program with him!

Constsnce, you asked for comments, of which there should be a torrent. The Rutherford institute could provide numerous cases where Christian constitutional liberties have been infringed; that is "warfare." Typically perimmeters are tested before a major confrontation. Watch for a REICHSTAG FIRE like event before a strategic turn against Christ in us. Thanks for the latest info. "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them..."
Yours in Christ,
More cheery news I found on line on the SNOOPERVISED SOCIETY scene:

Thursday, July 13, 2006
Simple e-Passport safeguard: Aluminum Foil
Today, is featuring an article about the vulnerabilities of e-Passports. In case you don't know, beginning in August, new U.S. passports will contain an RFID tag. An RFID tag is a little circuit and antenna that allows data to be read from it wirelessly. The plan is to speed up check-in by automating the process of getting the indentification information from the traveler's passport. Unfortunately, anyone with an RFID tag reader can read the data without you even knowing it. Great... just what we need, identity theft on a global scale.
A simple and inexpensive way to defend against unwanted access to your e-Passport is to wrap it in aluminum foil. RFID tags are designed to be used at close range, so it doesn't take much to interfere with them. One layer of aluminum foil will attenuate the radio signal enough to stop any unwanted access of your information. Though, you'll probably need to remove it from the foil before you hand it over to the customs official.
posted by Jason at 9:53 PM | 1 comments links to this post  

Pasted from
7/8/2007, 8:27 PM

I wish I could say I was shocked or surprised at this. But I am not, maybe that is that saddest part.
If this address doesn't work go to the Spitzer telescope site.
Why are Christians anachronistic, and why are we the ones holding back humanities evolution? We believe in God, we believe he created man basicly as he is today; science is so "out on a limb' with Darwin that along with the pansperma theory, "science may" have the answer to our origin: Mother Nova! With these kinds of material explanations who needs God anyway?
"Professing themselves to be wise; they became fools..."
Yours in Christ,

I gave the wrong name for Ray Yungen's book. It's "A Time of Departing."

I will contact Ray Yungen's publisher regarding your interest. I have never met Ray nor visited his website until you mentioned him. I'm thankful you did.

The book and extensive research on the promotion of New Age mysticism in the Christian church, colleges, etc. can be found at:


Hi Dave,

Ray Yungen knows me personally. He's one of those I got started back in the 1980s. I'm very happy about his fine work!

There is an interesting link at 07-08-07 today regarding a speech given in Feburary 2006 by a Soviet dissident suggesting the EU is a developing dictatorship aligning itself to the old Soviet style of leadership and policies. The link is to the August Review. Check out today and link to the right hand column title "EU rising dictatorship?". Perhaps you are already familiar with this, but in case not, it would be of great interest to all of you.
I don't know if anyone reads this after so long, but here is a thought... what would have happened if these Christians would have left their signs at home and went there to just mingle with the people. You know, like to make friends. I know that I am more likely to listen to my friend, whom I know cares about me, verse change my life based on signs.

I am not justifying what has happened here... it IS a sign of the times. BUT if these people where trying to lead people to Christ, isn't there a better way than that? I know that when I lived that lifestyle I knew deep down inside that I was sinning. But if someone was to point it out, it was more like condemnation because Satan had control of my mind. However, many Christians came and left my life without ever mentioning it. I would, but they refused to fight the topic with me...they only loved me. You know, they prayed too... so years later (maybe 2) I became a born again Christian. Now 7 years later, I am healed in my heart of that old life. But it was not signs that changed me, nor has it been signs or rally’s that change the other's that I know who have turned from that lifestyle.

There is much happening in this world...and it is sad to see such HATE from so many different places... from the cops, from the homosexuals, from road rage person, to -yes, lets be honest- from the local 'Christian person.'

Perhaps there is a better way... after all; the walls of Jericho fell without a sword being lifted... With Yahweh anything is possible.

I read your thoughts. You have some good advise. We are to be living letters of God's love to a lost world. You seem to understand that the sign carrying Christians had the constitutional right, and a moral right to express thier views; so I don't sense condemnation. I work with the disabled, but cannot "preach" unless they open the "door", but I trust that my caring love for them will cause them to ask why!
Yours in Christ,
Setterman PS If you read this Constance I'm visiting in Ecorse.
You can read or watch a sermon online by John MacArthur called "When God Abandons a Nation" that is quite illustrative on this point.
Too many "Christians" are so lukewarm , their 'Christianity' is suspect. We need to make a difference in this world as salt and light, shining on the darkness and exposing it, not hiding under bushel baskets with our light. The Sodomite agenda is extremely aggressive and is taking new ground everywhere you look now; it cannot be avoided, it is in-your-face! Protest those gay events, they are an abomination and a nasty sign of how far American Christians have let this country fall! Let homosexuals know true Christians will not stand for such wickedness in this country! Christians, brethren, stand against gay activism with every fiber of your being!
Things are really getting bad for Christians, not just in persecutions/prosecutions, but also in sentencing. Dr. Hovind, who was big in teaching on creation and against evolution, and his wife were both sentenced harshly for violating banking and payroll tax laws. I am not sure if they were victims of a government that is out of control or bad tax advice. He was also big on something called redeeming the straw man. I have read both pro and con on this. What is your take???

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